lunitikjdub: voicing how strongly I dislike it... I would need to go back a few levels of meta-packages to get rid of it and eog... which makes managing packages that much harder  :(12:01
jdublunitik: you don't need to make your point over and over, and with unnecessary hyperbole.12:02
lunitik(which goes back to a previous issue, having some flexability in the ubuntu-desktop depends... 12:02
Mithrandirlunitik: you could just divert it and make the xpdf binary a symlink to gpdf; ditto for eog.12:02
Mithrandirit's not like it's hard.12:02
lunitikMithrandir: if I did it myself, I garentee I'd forget for one upgrade, and have to fix it...12:03
Mithrandirlunitik: which is why you divert it.  dpkg remembers for you12:04
Mithrandirman dpkg-divert12:04
lunitikMithrandir: hmm, thanks12:05
lunitikMithrandir: ahh... I don't understand... --package seems to be what I want... but how would I say "install gpdf and ignore xpdf* and eog"12:08
Mithrandirlunitik: cd /usr/bin/ ; dpkg-divert --local /usr/bin/gpdf && ln -s gpdf xpdf ; apt-get install gpdf ought to work.12:11
lifelesssigned aot repositories - what files do I need to sign ?12:14
mvolifeless: the Release file will do12:16
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lifelessmvo: clear signed ?12:17
mvolifeless: detached and armored as Release.gpg12:19
jdubthe gaim guys still haven't fixed the 'disconnected from notification area kills me' bug12:20
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Mithrandirsure it's not fixed in 1.1.4 either?12:21
jdubrunning 1.1.4 now12:21
jduboh, hold on12:21
jdubi must've been running the earlier version before ;)12:22
Mithrandiris 1.1.4 in hoary now?12:23
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dredgyes. gaim-encryption was rebuilt to play nice with it a couple of days ago12:23
sivangsomehting strange12:24
sivangjust upgraded12:24
sivangdesktop as a whole suddenly got a lot less responsive12:24
=== mvo goes to bed now
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sivangeven switching windows in irssi is _slow_12:26
sivang(and I am using irssi locally, not through screen)12:26
=== sivang thinks of doing a reboot
mvosivang: have had very slow redrawing as well some days ago. killing metacity helped me12:27
ogramvo: night12:27
mvonight ogra 12:28
dholbachnight everyone, i'm off as well12:28
ograme too12:29
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zuleverybody is dropping like flies12:29
sivanghmm, still the same12:32
marcin_anthi - could someone help me with ppp connection?12:32
marcin_antmy problem is related with this bug http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=%2312778612:33
lunitikMithrandir: ahh... sorry, had to handle something... but its not letting me remove xpdf without removing ubuntu-desktop still... any idea why?12:33
marcin_antand there is a kind of solution but I don't know how to use this solution... 12:33
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sivangseb128: do you know anything about redraw slowness problem?12:43
seb128context ?12:43
seb128what app ?12:43
sivangseb128: all of the desktop12:43
T-Bonesivang: that's called 'low mem'12:44
sivangT-Bone: ha! I'm hurt :) I have .5Gig here :)12:44
T-Boneaka "swapping like hell"12:44
T-Bonenot enough :)12:44
sivangT-Bone: I know you told me already, but I cannot afford more then that at the moment12:44
sivangT-Bone: my nvidia card fan may be failing or either my swap partitoin has gone bonkers as it did on the lappie12:45
T-Bone(actually it's a shame that 512M isn't enough, I have machines running other OSes with 24M of RAM :P)12:45
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lamontKamion: ??12:55
T-Boneelmo: around?12:57
T-Bonelamont: seen #u-kernel?12:57
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jdubseb128: go go go! :)01:01
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sivangseb128: that's so odd, all of my desktop is like through a vnc console over a modem line since last upgrade. what can I do it track this down? :-)01:05
T-Boneok, -25 uploaded, food for the buildds01:05
sivangseb128: (with regarad to redraw slow performance, that is)01:05
seb128what's the system load ?01:05
sivangload average: 0.21, 0.35, 0.2401:06
seb128not that high01:07
sivangyeah, I don't get it01:07
seb128do you have something eating CPU ?01:07
zulsivang: you are running 2.6.10-3 right?01:07
sivangzul: now I am , yes :)01:07
sivangzul: so it's not a kernel problem01:07
zulstill the same problem?01:07
sivangzul: yep01:08
seb128nothing in ~/.xsession-errors ?01:08
sivangseb128: looking01:09
sivangseb128: protocol-esound.c: read() failed: EOF01:10
seb128probably not slowing your system01:11
sivangseb128: probably not01:12
=== lamont grumbles at the number of ftbfs logs in main
T-Bonelamont: let's add the hppa ones to that list ;^)01:14
=== T-Bone runs away screaming mad after all that kernel work :)
lamontT-Bone: actually, I already branched most of those. :-)01:15
lamontT-Bone: you gonna tell mdz that -25 is uploaded?01:15
T-Bonei told it to the world a few line above but i guess i can do:01:15
T-Bonemdz: -25 is uploaded (i'm not receiving any confirmation mail, fwiw) :)01:15
T-Bonelamont: is that fine? :^)01:15
lamontanyway, off to hear the cello played by my 12 year-old.01:15
lamontT-Bone: works here01:16
T-Bonelamont: off to bed, on my side :)01:16
lamontelmo is like asleep, yes?01:16
sivangT-Bone: you mean the slowness problem?01:16
T-Bonesee ya tomorrow for more bugging ;)01:16
T-Bonegnight all01:17
=== T-Bone is now known as T-None
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sivangseb128: one of the "cpu(s)" (it's an -smp system) goes up to 55% load when switching between windows, normal?01:20
sivangseb128: s/-smp/HT/01:20
sivangseb128: hyper threading01:20
seb128do you use the composite or something ?01:20
sivangseb128: composite?01:20
seb128xorg transparency stuff01:21
=== lamont back in about 2-3 hours
sivangseb128: no AFAIK. how can I check if xorg transperancy is on by mistake maybe?01:22
jbaileyHmm.  This is probably too ugly...  tail -n $(($(wc -l /proc/swaps | awk ' { print $1 } ') - 1)) /proc/swaps | sort -rk3 | head -n 1 | awk ' { print $1 } '01:22
seb128sivang: search for composite in the config file ? but if you have not changed it there is no reason01:23
sivangseb128: then I havn't :-/01:24
jbaileyOh - I don't have those options in busybox sort, do I.01:24
=== jbailey grumbles.
Loevborgjbailey, and you don't have perl?01:25
schweebjbailey: you're doing this for the installer CD?01:25
jbaileyIt's for initrd-tools at installation time to set the resume partition for suspend to disk.01:25
schweebyea, even perl would be prettier01:25
jbaileyI need to pull out the partition that's the largest.01:25
jbaileyI don't remember if perl is available at that point or not.01:26
jbaileyNope. No perl udeb.01:27
=== jbailey makes sure that d-i bb actually has awk available
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schweebare dist-upgrades from warty going to be supported?01:29
jdubof course01:29
schweebit'd be nice to have that resume partition stuff set on dist-upgrade too01:30
schweebrather than just in the udeb on the cd01:30
wasabiOkay, so I'm looking for somebody from Ubuntu to sign my gpg key, in the Texas area. ;)01:31
jbaileyschweeb: I can't risk changing a config file that might have been unset intentionally.  The resume partition magic is in the new version, though.  You just have to set it by hand in one config file and then update to a newer kernel.01:31
wasabiThere a wiki page for key signing meetings or similar?01:31
schweebjbailey: ah01:31
schweebgotta mess around w/ suspend on the lappy a bit... had it working a while back in Sid, hasn't worked since01:32
jbaileyschweeb: I've had good luck with recent hoary kernels.01:32
Loevborgon my box, it doesn't seem to work. where do i look to see what's wrong?01:34
schweebjbailey: well, tried it yesterday, but the screen didn't come back on... my guess is it's either DPMS or the Video Post stuff01:34
jbaileyschweeb: See Zack Weinberg's recent message on ubuntu-devel@.  Matt made some suggestions in there that might be worth trying.01:35
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schweebjbailey: thx01:36
schweebwonder if gmane has ubuntu-devel archives01:38
=== schweeb checks
schweeboh joy!01:39
tsenghey dudes01:40
jbaileyNo, awk, no head, no sort.01:41
jbaileyWell, crippled sort.01:42
=== jbailey contemplated writing qsort in pure shell.
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schweebjbailey: Zack's Array 5 post?01:43
jbaileyschweeb: Yeah.01:43
jbaileymjg59: There?01:43
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mjg59jbailey: Yo01:53
mdzT-None: if you aren't receiving confirmation email, it'll be because the email address you're using isn't on the whitelist01:55
jbaileymjg59: Do you know off hand if initrd-tools is done installed from a chroot on the new drive, or if it's still in busybox with basically no tools available?01:56
mjg59jbailey: No idea, I'm afraid01:56
jbaileymjg59: 'kay.  If it's from busybox, do you think it's safe to just pick the first partition?01:56
mjg59I'd expect it to be in the chroot, though01:56
sivangwhen is preview freeze in effect?01:56
jbaileymjg59: I had planned to pick the biggest one, but I might not have enough text processing tools to sort that out.01:56
mjg59It's always safe to choose the first partition, it just won't necessarily work :)01:56
jbaileymjg59: What happens if the swap partition is inadequate for some reason?  (Full, too small, not initialised, etc..)01:57
sivanghey tseng 01:57
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mjg59jbailey: The system will bounce01:58
jbaileymjg59: Bounce like reboot, or bounce like refuse to suspend?01:59
mjg59Uh. Rather, the suspend call will fail and the machine will run the resume script.01:59
helixooh, bouncing systems01:59
mjg59It won't reboot01:59
jbaileyG'd evening Erinn ;)01:59
helixhello! :)01:59
jbaileymjg59: 'kay, so if I get it wrong then I'm not risking crippling the system.  I can cope with that.01:59
sivangjbailey: from what I saw mjg59's pm stuff is really cool and uncrippeling02:01
tritiumI agree :)02:01
sivangseb128: it's definitely only to redraw stuff that got b0rked, I can even type into a terminal while it's get redrawn02:02
mjg59FEEL THE LOVE02:02
jbaileymjg59: And one last fuzzy-love question.  If someone points it at something that's not a swap partition, it'll puke right? =)02:02
sivangjbailey: hmm, interesting question02:03
mdzjbailey: initrd-tools is installed in a chroot02:03
jbaileymdz: Nice, thanks!02:03
=== jbailey does a happy dance.
mdzjbailey: where do we stand on #1080?02:03
mjg59jbailey: Yeah, it checks for a swap sig first02:04
mjg59Uh, I think. Let me just make sure of that...02:04
jbaileymdz: The bugzilla mods aren't finished.  I'm going to hack on them more later today.  I have bug-buddy code to talk to xml-rpc.  reportbug isn't trivial to modify since it has all the debbugs bits hardcoded (severities, etc.) and I'd recommend replacing it with bugzuki which is mostly ready, just needs to be unhardwired from RH's bugzilla.02:05
jbaileymdz: I wanted to get the SATA bug and the initrd pieces in before tomorrow, though.02:05
jbaileymdz: bugzuki is more more like bts than reportbug, though.02:06
tritiumIt even works for me, and my swap is 498 MB, while my ram iw 512 MB.02:06
mdzjbailey: I'm much less concerned about reportbug than I am about bug-buddy, to be honest02:07
sivangmdz : reportbug is text mode the last time I checked, or is it being used as a backend for some more intelligent bug reporting tools?02:08
jbaileymdz: Yes, textmode.  I'd imagine that most devs are probably just as happy using bugzilla for now.02:09
jbaileysivang: ^^02:09
sivangjbailey: k, cool.02:11
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mjg59jbailey: Y'know, the worrying thing is that I can't actually find anything that checks whether it's swapspace until after it's written all over the partition...02:18
jbaileymjg59: But it does it after?  That's comforting.02:19
tritiummjg59, is there any checking to see if swap size < memory ?02:19
jbaileymjg59:  We can hack out some of the xscreensaver code to post a big "Game Over" message in the middle of the screen. =)02:19
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mjg59tritium: Yeah02:20
tritiumOkay, thanks.02:20
mdzjbailey: reportbug doesn't even work unless the (Debian-savvy) admin configures an MTA anyway, and if they do, the reports at least go someplace useful02:25
mdzwhereas the bug-buddy reports basically get queued indefinitely02:25
jbaileymdz: Hmm, so this code should be ported over to malone eventually anyway.02:27
schweebbugger, all I get is blank screen on reboot with suspend02:29
sivanggas anyone changed dch to use mc's text editor instead of vi ?02:29
sivangthat's rather rude :)02:30
sivangthat's probably specific to the package though..02:33
crimsunshouldn't be... just export $EDITOR02:33
crimsunwell, set and export it02:33
schweebit probably just uses the editor from your alternatives02:34
schweebupdate-alternative --config editor02:34
sivangschweeb: right. thanks.02:34
schweeber update-alternatives02:35
sivangschweeb: thanks , ny dch is sane again02:36
sivangschweeb: seems the default now is mceditor02:36
=== tseng hides.
sivangtseng: for sure :)02:36
mjg59Hmm. So, I have code that makes Thinkpads suspend properly and not draw lots of power.02:42
mjg59It's likely to do bad things to non-Thinkpads.02:42
mjg59Hoary? Or leave in the wiki and defer?02:43
=== schweeb tries to reverse engineer the hibernate process
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jbaileymdz: re: 6898, yes, I think dropping sablevm down to universe makes sense 02:47
mdzjbailey: db4.2 seems to build-depend on sablevm and libgcj4-dev02:49
Clintyou can switch it to kaffe02:49
mdzI guess we should stick with it for hoary, and fix this stuff up for +102:50
=== jbailey checks.
Clintyou could also disable the java tests02:50
jbaileyOh, build-dep.  That's why it didn't show up with apt-cache rdepends.02:50
mdzdaniels: here?02:53
mjg59daniels: http://joshua.raleigh.nc.us/docs/linux-2.4.10_html/106746.html - CRACK02:59
danielsmdz: pong03:01
danielsmjg59: oh man03:02
mjg59daniels: It's still in the kernel03:03
danielsmjg59: oh man03:05
mjg59daniels: On the bright side, it means that we know how to reinit some cards from scratch...03:08
mjg59Hmm. I'm sure Jon Smirl doesn't want to be poking 0x46e8 in the way he is. Its behaviour seems to vary from card to card.03:09
Riddelldaniels: dbus packages have a duplicate qt header file in both dbus-1-dev and dbus-qt-1-dev, can I commit a fix?03:19
Riddelldebdiff:  http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/dbus-deb.diff03:20
danielsRiddell: sure -- i thought amu had already fixed that one up03:22
Riddelldaniels: he mentioned it but doesn't seem to have uploaded the fix03:24
=== Riddell uploads
jdubdaniels: 0.23.1?03:28
Riddellhmm, my upload of dbus was rejected, is that because my key doesn't work for packages in main?03:31
mdzRiddell: yes03:33
danielsjdub: not sure if it has API changes03:35
Riddellmdz: it's supposed to, at least the technical board approved me for it, is it elmo I moan to?03:35
mdzRiddell: well, what did it say in the reject message?03:35
mdzthat your key is no good, or something else?03:36
Riddellmdz: "not in the Maintainer keyring"03:37
mdzRiddell: yeah, that'd mean that the keyring hasn't been updated03:37
schweeburgh, no suspend for schweeb03:45
sivangnight all!04:04
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danielsguys, could you all please fetch http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/detect-keyboard.sh, and run it?  (needs to be run as root due to debconfage).  please send me a /msg if you use it and let me know whether it's right or wrong.05:10
daniels(this is going to be the xkb detection stuff for array 6, so as wide testing as it can get is appreciated.)05:12
calcis it ok to run it under x?05:12
danielsyeah, it won't touch any running configuration05:13
danielsthe only debconf stuff it needs to do is find out what the d-i keymap is05:13
Burgundaviaseems to work correctly here05:17
lunitikBurgundavia: way to follow instructions  ;)05:18
schweebdaniels: ah, that perl error must have been something from debconf05:18
Burgundaviayes, I just read the last para05:18
mdzdaniels: (wrongly) gives me us here, but I don't think I installed this system with the installer05:19
danielsmdz: ah, ok05:19
mdzdaniels: does the right thing on my laptop, which was installed by the installer05:19
mdzI'll try on the test boxen as well05:20
Burgundaviadaniels: if it matters, my warty--> upgrade box works correctly too05:20
jdub# ./detect-keyboard.sh05:20
jdubfailed to infer keyboard layout from layout/lang '--'05:20
jdublayout is us05:20
jdubrules are xorg05:20
jdubmodel is pc10405:20
jduboptions are05:20
mdzdaniels: yes, yes and yes05:21
mdz(i386, powerpc, amd64)05:21
danielssmurfix: ping05:22
mdzdaniels: you might be able to get a wider variety of layouts in #ubuntu05:22
danielsmdz: phat05:22
danielsjdub: don't use sudo su -, you bongmeister05:22
crimsundaniels: works correctly here.05:22
calcbtw why isn't LANG getting set when you sudo su -?05:22
mdzjdub: did you not install using d-i?05:22
mdzoh, nm05:23
jdub$ sudo ./detect-keyboard.sh05:23
jdublayout is us05:23
jdubrules are xorg05:23
jdubmodel is pc10405:23
jduboptions are05:23
danielscalc: su - clears the environment05:23
calcyea it resets it to root's env05:24
calcor something similar05:24
calchmm so sudo su - isn't causing /etc/pam.d/login to be used otherwise pam_env would cause /etc/environment to be loaded05:28
mdzsudo su - is silly05:29
mdzsudo -i05:29
calcdoes the same thing no LANG05:29
calcwhich appears to be due to pam_env not being run?05:30
mdzyeah, looks that way05:30
mdzsudo login -f root :-)05:30
calcheh that works05:31
calcso why doesn't the other methods of getting a login shell actually cause pam.d/login to run, interesting issue05:31
mdzI don't think they start a pam session05:31
lunitikcalc: 'sudo su -' results in same as 'su -' ... sudo -i still specifies SUDO_USER and SUDO_UID... 05:32
calclunitik: yea05:32
mdzI wonder why sudo -i doesn't just use login05:32
mdzthat's what it's for05:32
lunitikOnly diff's I see... heh... I just went through comparing...05:32
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lunitikmdz: man sudo -i says it parses shell as specified in /etc/passwd, then /etc/sudoers ... 'login' doesn't ever look at /etc/sudoers... might be related  ;)05:34
mdzlunitik: for the "sudo -i" case, the shell will always be the same05:38
mdznot that it's any of sudo's business :-)05:39
lunitik -i  The -i (simulate initial login) option runs the shell specified in the passwd(5) entry of the user that the command is being run as.05:39
lunitikSo yes  :P05:39
=== lunitik just read it wrong... cuz he's an idiot
lamontno elmo, I assume>?05:49
=== lunitik wonders why he can't find something like --force-ignoremissing ... to ignore files that dont exist when removing?
lunitikOr am I just blind?05:50
lunitikmdz: *cough*05:51
lunitikuhh... Keybuk, sorry05:51
lunitikcept he's not here  :(05:51
danielslunitik: it's not actually an error, just a warning05:53
lunitikdaniels: ohhh... could be why there is no option for it...  :P05:53
calc--force-all is your friend05:53
lunitikcalc: I don't like doing that enless I'm sure  :(05:54
calcheh, i was joking btw ;)05:54
lunitikcalc: ahh... k  :)   05:54
calcdoing things without understanding why will lead to a broken box05:55
=== lunitik remembers installing almost every day due to breaking things when he first started playing with Debian... :P
lunitik'playing' was definatly the operative word for it  :)05:56
calcthats a good way to learn how to use dselect :)05:56
lunitikcalc: gah... you know, I still haven't actually installed anything with dselect or aptitude's ncurses interface...05:57
calcoh you used tasksel with debian?05:57
calcor just a huge number of apt-gets?05:58
lunitikcalc: nah... I think the option was "bypass package selection" in b-f, and in d-i 'manually select packages' > q  ;)05:58
lunitikcalc: the latter... meta-packages are my friends  :)05:58
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=== lamont wonders if germany is awake yet
AndyFitzgah,  gam_server   hates me 06:02
AndyFitzwell i hate gamin06:03
lunitikAndyFitz: yeah, uhh... its generally a bad idea to IRC as root...06:03
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AndyFitzlunitik,  if this machine gets compromised there is no loss to me or the current network06:04
lunitikBut its a pain in the neck either way  :/06:05
calci'm sure some people that would get spam from that box would have something to say to you though ;)06:05
AndyFitzthis is really sudo anyway  i cant login as a normal user without it hanging in 20 seconds06:05
AndyFitzcalc,  postfix, sendmail etc arent on here06:05
AndyFitzim watching the network monitor either way06:05
danielsAndyFitz: boot with 'noinotify'06:07
AndyFitzreally ive got to figure out why   .ICEauthority and .Xauthority's perms are always changing   and why i get these atomic: gam_server errors06:07
lamontAndyFitz: -23 kernel?06:07
danielsAndyFitz: if you run apps under sudo, root will end up owning ICEauthority and Xauthority06:08
danielsthe answer being don't run X apps directly under sudo06:08
danielsgksudo if you must06:08
AndyFitzdaniels  okay yeah i can appreciate that,  so that problem is solved.    now why the constant hangs and gam_server errors06:09
danielsAndyFitz: boot with 'noinotify', or get a newer kernel06:10
AndyFitzthanks btw daniels.   its logical that thats what is happening.   how do i boot with noinotify ?06:10
danielswhen you boot, press escape for the grub menu as it flies by in the three-second window; press e to edit the first entry, go down to the kernel line, and press e again06:11
danielsadd 'noinotify' to the end of that line, press enter, then hit b06:11
AndyFitztoo easy, thanks.   and what will noinotify do ?06:13
danielsdisable inotify, which is the part of the kernel that lets gamin know when stuff's changed06:13
danielsthat's the crashy bit06:13
AndyFitzsweet.  okay thanks06:14
lunitikdaniels: what use is gamin if its not realizing things change?  I thought that was the whole point of it?  *blush*06:15
danielslunitik: sure, but right now there are kernel bugs that make it unusable because your system just locks up06:15
lunitikdaniels: ohh... yeah, that would be bad06:16
=== lunitik shuts up
jdubgamin falls back to dnotify anyway06:16
lamonthoary will ship with inotify disabled by default06:17
lamontalthough we'll try to have it work right when you force it on06:17
tsengrml says .20 is due out any time now06:17
lamontonce hoary ships, we'll turn it back on if it's semi-sane06:17
tsengwith more fixing06:17
tsengzul and I are testing a partial fix06:17
jdubrml is my bitch, btw.06:18
schweebjdub: lol, I'd love to hear his take on that06:18
lamontjdub: you and mdz duke it out - I'm uncomfortable with enabling it by default given the date on my calendar and the current state of the code06:18
jdublamont: does mdz want it on by default?06:18
=== lunitik wonders what is refered to by 'rml says .20 is due'... (.20 of what?)
jdubschweeb: quoting...06:19
lamontdon't believe so06:19
jdubYou tell me what you want and need and I'll do it--I totally am at your06:19
jdubmercy, as I infinitely appreciate you guys shipping inotify.06:19
lamontjdub: I think all 3 of us are in agreement06:19
jdublamont: then we're one06:19
tsenglunitik: ... context clues are cool06:19
lamontjdub: woot06:19
jdublamont: we are the holy trinity of inotify!06:19
schweebjdub: hah, awesome06:19
tsengto quote rml for lunitik .. "Inotify, bitches!"06:19
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lamontjdub: but if you are silly enough to say 'inotify' as a kernel param, we'll try to have it not crash on you.06:20
lunitikgamin is at .24... inotify is not a package apparently... I tried to check out contect clues  :(06:20
schweeblunitik: heh, inotify is a kernel patch06:20
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jdublamont: yep06:21
lamontjdub: so what time does preview freeze hit?06:21
lunitikschweeb: sooo not the point  :P06:21
=== lunitik feels dumber and dumber every time he comes here :(
jdublamont: "by end of wednesday", even in one of your laggy timezones :)06:22
schweeblunitik: only way to learn is by making mistakes. I'm no genius06:22
jdubwhat i really need06:22
lamontwas wondering if tomorrow was still maverik-day, or if I had to behave, was all... :-)06:22
jdubis NEW queue processing06:22
lamontjdub: and for that, you need your other bitch06:23
tsengjdub: dude. elmo said earlier that cleanlooks or whatever wasnt in there06:23
jdublamont: my special bitch :)06:23
jdubtseng: eh?06:23
tsengjdub: in fact, he said nothing was in there06:23
jduband now i say "wtf"!06:23
lamontjdub: so now he's thpethial?06:23
=== jdub deletes his upload file and reuploads
lunitikjdub: care to link me to clearlooks .debs... pretty please?  :)06:24
jdubi386 and source06:24
lunitikjdub: thank you  :)06:24
crimsunhow 'bout dem pants.06:25
tsengperky pants indeed06:25
lunitikUhh... will /usr/lib/mime/debian-view install via the new Add/Remove Packages tool? ...if not, any plans for this?  :P06:26
tsenglunitik: try it and see.. general queries go to #ubuntu please.06:27
jdubandrewski: 506:27
lunitiktseng: ahh... sorry06:27
lamonthrm.. I seem to be missing jdub's font06:28
tsenglunitik: other than a bit of random silliness (usually relating to jdub) we reserve this channel for development issues. thanks for understanding06:28
jdubtseng: *cough*06:28
tsengheh :)06:28
tsengi want my jdub|tv06:29
lunitiktseng: it kind of was a development issue, although perhaps better suited to bugzilla enhancement...06:29
tsengyou didnt even look to see if there was such an issue, actually.06:29
tsengor at least thats how you came off06:29
schweebheh, jdubtv... that blog pic was...frightening06:30
tsengschweeb: imagine it with silly background music and full motion06:30
tsengI cant say there's anything quite like it06:30
danielsmdz: anything else for 6.8.2-2?06:37
danielsjdub: get an amd64, you fascist06:37
jdubwill await the delivery06:38
jdubthank you for your donation06:38
lamontjdub: he promised that I was ahead of you on the list..06:39
danielsjdub: remember to hold your breath06:39
=== lamont turns blue
jdubwe made rml sad06:48
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AndyFitzyay ,  daniels:  thankyou so much mate06:49
AndyFitzI would never have guessed to add noinotify06:50
lamontinotify disablage?06:51
=== lamont scratches his head, repeatedly
lamont-25 kernel source will enter the archive in 7 minutes.06:54
lamontand then not be there in binary form 12 minutes later when the daily di and livecd builds happen06:54
tsenglamont: is that with the inotify spinlock love?06:57
tsengoh theres the log06:58
lamontno inotify changes from -2406:58
lamontand unless there's a RC bug for the preview release, I don't think we'll see another kernel upload until after the preview comes out06:58
jdublamont: yeah06:58
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whiprushjdub: is that vte in your repo the one with that performance patch?06:59
jdubsome of them06:59
jdubnot all of the latest06:59
jdubthat'll hopefully be released as 0.11.1206:59
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lamontKamion: somewhere around 0903 you should have the -25 kernel in the archive for i386,ppc,amd6407:08
danielsKamion: xorg 6.8.2-2 is on its way07:10
lamontdaniels: oh, good.  I'm not last then. :-)07:10
zenroxgood improvments i hope07:11
mdzdaniels: I don't think so (the keyboard stuff and the duplicate questions were the only things which needed to be addressed for array 6)07:13
danielsmdz: kay07:13
mdzjdub: surely there is some way to address the unmounting problems, other than switching to inotify07:13
mdzbecause kernel panics are far worse07:13
tsengmdz: the diff between .18 and .19 is one line, comments out a spinlock operation07:14
tsengalso applied in -mm, it looks like quite possibly the culprit07:15
mdztseng: hmmm07:15
tsengzul was building with the change07:15
mdzI think we should leave it off by default for array 607:15
tsengi havent heard back from him with a .deb yet07:15
tsengmdz: definately07:16
mdzunless we can somehow confirm that it fixes all the bugs by morning07:16
tsengits not in -25 anyway, it will have to wait07:16
tsengI'll be sure to test it as soon as I get zuls package07:16
=== lamont sleeps
tsengmdz: 07:17
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mdzI think I'll do the same shortly07:18
tsenghas some commentation on the issue07:18
mdzcertainly a bug07:18
mdzbut it doesn't feel like it explains all of the crashes07:18
jdubmdz: 0.0.25 may work around it07:19
tseng"bugs on smp and preempt"07:19
jdubmdz: the problem is dnotify07:20
jdub(0.0.25 of gamin may work around it successfully)07:20
tsengthatd be cool. id test your theory but i dont see .25 in the archive yet07:20
tsengwhich is odd seeing as it built some hours ago07:21
tsengif you throw one up in ~/jdub ill try it07:22
tsengor tommorow.07:22
jdubtseng: i uploaded it earlier07:23
mdztseng: the Packages files, for i386 at least, haven't changed in several hours; I think something might be wrong07:24
tsengyep =/07:24
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YokoZarCould someone please explain why I need to make a .desktop file if I have a .mime and .menu file in my package?07:52
danielsbecause .desktop supersedes .menu07:52
daniels.menu was only a debian thing; .desktop is common between all distributions and all desktop environments07:53
YokoZarI suspected it did.  Is there a way to have this done for me automatically, or do I need to do it by hand?07:53
YokoZarWhere do I put the .desktop file to have it installed in the right place?  I'm gonna put this thing upstream too07:53
danielsyou'll need to do it by hand07:53
danielsunder /usr/share/applications I think, but jdub can correct me07:54
YokoZarOk.  Would I be breaking any standard by creating a whole new Wine submenu?07:54
YokoZarWe're gonna put the Wine start menu in there.07:54
danielser, I think so07:57
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danielsjdub: the top-level menus are defined, yeah?07:57
jdubdaniels: hrm?07:58
jdubyou'd have to ship an xdg menu file or something07:59
jdubit's kinda hard to get around this for wine07:59
YokoZarHmm.  Wine also will create its own .desktop files to point to this as you install windows programs07:59
jdubthey would use categories to fit in the wine top level menu08:01
jdubprobably best to talk to Mike Hearn about the new xdg spec08:01
jduband how to fit wine in08:01
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danielsdoesn't mike work for code weavers?  or am I way off the mark there08:02
jdubhe does08:03
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YokoZarCrossover does this already, albeit in its own ways08:08
YokoZarI should email Mike08:09
danielsis anyone with an amd64 around?08:13
pittiKamion: ping08:15
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dholbachgood morning08:23
pittiHi dholbach 08:24
pittimdz: still here?08:25
dholbachhai pitti08:25
YokoZarIn a .desktop file, is the line Path=%d proper?08:26
YokoZaror is %d only good for the Exec line?08:26
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smurfixdaniels: replied to your email08:42
danielssmurfix: thanks08:44
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danielssmurfix: cool, thanks.  we don't have any three-letter language codes, only two.08:51
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smurfixdaniels: Sure we do. tig_ER, sid_ET, gez_{ER,ET}, byn_ER.08:57
smurfixdaniels: guj => gu, which we have also. Dunno why X uses three-letter codes here.08:59
smurfixdaniels: ben => bn09:00
smurfixdaniels: kan => kn09:01
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smurfixdaniels: tel => te09:02
smurfixdaniels: ... and "tml" is actually "tam" => ta, which we have also09:04
smurfixdaniels: That's even more stupid, that should be renamed / aliased in X.09:05
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smurfixdaniels: Anyway, that's all it seems.09:07
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Brutisi need some ubunto install help...09:27
Brutishas anyone got a sec to help?09:28
Brutisno guess not09:28
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TreenaksWhy does everyone insist on calling it "Ubunto"09:29
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lifelessTreenaks: probably heard it pronounced09:35
HrdwrBoBwell you know09:35
HrdwrBoBthe channel name being 'ubuntu' is pretty obscure09:35
TreenaksHrdwrBoB: hm, how about #ubunto and #ubunto-devel?09:36
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Mithrandirlunitik: don't remove xpdf, just ignore the package.  Or make a new empty package with the xpdf name.09:45
Mithrandirdaniels: ping?09:45
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Kamiondaniels: you still up? that detect-keyboard thing doesn't look quite right ...10:06
pittiHi Kamion 10:06
Kamiondaniels: I'd recommend saying:10:07
Kamion  REALLANG=${LANG%%@*}10:07
Kamion  REALLANG=${REALLANG%%.*}10:07
Kamiondaniels: instead of @euro and .UTF-8, because euro and UTF-8 are not the only possible suffixes there (notably, .ISO-8859-1 etc.)10:07
Kamionpitti: morning10:07
pittiKamion: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/lptest/  /10:08
pittiKamion: ^ only -de language pack for now10:08
danielsKamion: ok10:08
danielsMithrandir: pong10:08
Mithrandirdaniels: what's the procedure for releasing fd.o software?  I want to roll a new release of pkg-config?10:09
Mithrandir(like, where do I put the tarball and announce it?)10:09
lunitikMithrandir: ahh... alright, thanks  :)10:09
danielsdo you have pkgconfig.fd.o or pkg-config.fd.o?10:09
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Mithrandirdaniels: unsure.  pkgconfig, I think.10:09
pittiKamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpack-deps.txt shows the new scheme10:09
Kamiondaniels: not fatal for array 6, but if you can get it past preview freeze I think it'd be nice10:09
Mithrandirit's just the binary which is called pkg-config10:10
Kamionpitti: ok, thanks10:10
danielsMithrandir: just dump it somewhere there (/srv/pkgconfig.freedesktop.org/www)10:10
danielsKamion: need to do -2 for a6 anyway10:10
Kamiondaniels: I thought you'd already done -2?10:10
danielsKamion: not uploaded10:10
jordiwhen is a6 due?10:11
pittiKamion: upgrade and installation from scratch work; however, manually upgrading just with dpkg -i is impossible (without --force flags)10:11
Kamionjordi: today sometime10:11
pittiKamion: works fine with apt, though10:11
jordiI've instructed the Catalan GNOME people to download it to test the stuff.10:11
Mithrandirdaniels: ok, and is there some common way of announcing, or just do it on fm and any other random places?10:11
pittiKamion: the only cosmetical flaw is now that an apt-get remove language-pack-foo won't automatically remove the base package10:11
Kamionupgrading with dpkg -i without the stuff you need to handle pre-depends falls in the "unlucky" category10:12
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pittiKamion: but I guess there is no solution for that now10:12
Kamionpitti: that's just the inverse of the problem, though10:12
jordiKamion: I guess all the Ubuntu-desktop specific translatable strings are in rosetta?10:12
pittiKamion: yes, but better easy install than easy removal, I think10:12
Kamiongeez, why does w3m pop up file-roller (which hangs) rather than automatically gunzipping Packages.gz and displaying it inline?10:12
Kamionpitti: *nod*10:12
Kamionjordi: dunno, you'd have to ask the rosetta guys10:12
danielsMithrandir: not really, just random places10:13
Mithrandirdaniels: ook10:15
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Kamionelmo: any idea when archive.ubuntu.com will start being up-to-date again?10:31
lifelessmvo: I don't have  Release file at all at the moment, just Packages.gz and Sources.gz10:32
lifelessmvo: this is for bazaar.canonical.com/packages/debs/10:33
Kamionlifeless: 'apt-ftparchive release' can fix that10:33
lifelessKamion: does it work over sftp ?10:33
Kamionuh ... it works on a local directory tree10:34
Kamionwhy would it work over sftp? apt-ftparchive doesn't in general10:34
lifelessuh, because at the moment I just use scanpackages on the new debs I've built.10:34
lifelessI don't use apt-ftparchive at all.10:35
Kamionso use apt-ftparchive at the same time that you do dpkg-scanpackages10:35
Kamionor immediately afterwards, rather10:35
lifelessok, I'll have a fiddle.10:35
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pittiKamion: if you are fine with the changes (I am now), I tell elmo about the package name changes (pre-add for NEW)10:38
pittiKamion: langpack-o-matic is ready to go and I updated the seeds10:38
pittiKamion: so as soon as elmo adds the packages, I can upload the stuff10:39
KamionI'm just trying an update10:39
mvolifeless: sorry for my slow reply. kamion said it all :)10:48
Kamionpitti: ok, seems to behave correctly here on various kinds of upgrades, go for it ...10:49
pittiKamion: okay, I mailed elmo the necessary changes. As soon as the packages are pre-added, I pull the trigger10:50
dokohmm, packages are entering the archives by hand approval from today on?10:53
Kamiondoko: probably tomorrow on in practice10:53
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Kamionok, what's happened to the wiki?10:56
Kamionhm, not getting anything from www.ubuntulinux.org in general10:57
lifelesscool, fall down go boom.10:58
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arithe ubuntu website is down a lot :/11:03
arior various parts of it11:03
dokokamion: all packages, which add a new binary package from yesterday are built by the buildd's but not yet in the archives11:03
Kamiondoko: 09:31 < Kamion> elmo: any idea when archive.ubuntu.com will start being up-to-date again?11:05
dokokamion: ok, thanks11:06
sabdflelmo: around?11:18
sabdflthom: around?11:18
thomsabdfl: yes11:18
sabdflany status on the website?11:19
thomjust about to phone elmo and see if it's supposed to be off11:19
sabdflelmo's phone is off11:19
thomgentoo is down entirely11:19
Kamionthat's presumably entirely unconnected with the archive mirroring issues ...11:20
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thomKamion: yes11:20
KamionI guess it's release day, according to Debian tradition :)11:20
sladenjdub: regarding LiveCD/coLinux.  the other thing to investigate come the time is xgl running on WGL which would get hardware-acceleration too11:20
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pittiogra: ping11:23
sladenthom: can you get Elmo's landline from Directory Enquires?11:23
thomsladen: meh; i'll just go to the DC11:24
sabdflis elmo not back from vancouver yet?11:25
pittisabdfl: argh, elmo is travelling today?11:28
Kamionthat's next weekend not this11:28
pittiuh, ok. We urgently need him today :-/11:28
seb128is there a mirror updated ?11:28
sabdflhmm... he told me the weekend + one day's leave11:28
Kamionsabdfl: last I heard, the schedule was 5th+6th March plus travel around that11:29
sabdflanybody have a cached copy of StaffCalendar, with his travel plans?11:29
Kamionthat's also what my diary says11:29
Kamionseb128: I think all the mirrors are backed up to yesterday evening, including archive.u.c11:30
=== Kamion gets up to date on CD images in the meantime
seb128Kamion: k, thanks11:33
sabdfljames is en route to heathrow, his flight is at 1:30pm GMT11:35
ograpitti, pong11:35
sabdflhe believes it's a single-machine failure, gentoo11:35
sabdflthe machine, not the distro11:35
sabdfljames is back tuesday11:35
sabdflthom should have everything he needs to recover gentoo, but should look out for signs of a crack11:36
pittiogra: Hi!11:36
pittiogra: I made minor change to your patch11:36
ograpitti, ok11:36
pittiogra: tokens = g_strsplit (str, ":", 0); -> tokens = g_strsplit (str, ":", 2);11:36
pittiogra: otherwise it looks very good11:36
pittiogra: building the package now11:36
ograpitti, i will probably give you a little fix later, that collapses the tree of the bios device by efault in hal-device-manager....11:37
pittiogra: hmm, good idea11:38
ograpitti, i think this would look a bit better....11:38
pittiogra: how much later is "later"?11:38
ograpitti, dunno, its not high priority on my list....11:38
pitti"preview freeze"11:39
ograpitti, its a fix :)11:39
pittiokay :-)11:39
ograbut only a cosmetic one.....11:39
ograhmm, sad..... http://bazaar.canonical.com is down ....11:41
pittiogra: 1.1.1 is in hoary, too :-)11:41
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ograpitti: i know....i'm just replying to a thread in -users about website design...that turned to a thread about versioning systems....and nobody mentioned bazaar....11:42
ograso i wanted to point there....11:43
Kamionthom: if elmo's away, can you act as deputy archive admin?11:43
danielsKamion: finally worked out my last bug and man was it stupid11:45
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daniels(in case anyone's interested: debian-installer/keymap and xserver-xorg/config/inputdevice/keyboard/layout, not xserver-xorg/config/inputdevice/keymboard/keymap)11:48
pittihey, linux 2.6.1111:49
Treenakspitti: -final?11:51
danielsKamion: oh, and fwiw, for your announcementy thingy -- 6.8.2-2 infers the x keymap from the d-i keymap, if that's worth putting in11:54
Kamiondaniels: definitely11:54
Kamionthanks for that11:54
danielsand the fact that it's 6.8.211:54
danielsi'm going to disappear for a while until the build's finished, but if you need to upload xorg itmt (it *should* be ok), chinstrap:~daniels11:56
KamionI'm unsure as to what I can do at the moment release-wise without an archive admin anyway, since I'm going to need a d-i byhand for release11:57
pittiogra: uploaded11:58
ograYAY !11:58
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ogramjg59: ping12:05
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CymI would like to report a problem with libapache2-mod-auth-mysql12:10
CymI have been going through the source code and comparing it to the previous version12:10
lunitikCym: bugzilla.ubuntu.com12:12
Cym4.3.8-1 doesnt display the problem but 4.3.9-1 gives me an internal error when I attempt to browse a directory that does not belong to the users group12:12
Cymwell I talked to the main package maintainer for it but he cant seem to reproduce the problem12:13
KamionCym: our resident Apache guru is travelling to/from our datacentre at the moment, so as lunitik says filing a bug is probably the best approach12:13
Cymand I noticed that ubuntu has repackaged it12:13
Kamionit's not a repackaging12:13
Kamionwe've modified it to disable apache 1.3 support, since we don't want to support that12:14
Cymi saw that12:14
Cymyah and that appears to be the only difference12:14
Kamionthe change in 4.3.9-1 sounds like it might easily affect permissions handling ...12:15
Cymyes, the change has to do with multiple "require" statements12:15
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Cymwith 4.3.8-1, it gives me a 401 which is what i want12:16
Cymbut with 4.3.9-1 it gives me an internal error with a 50012:16
Kamionsabdfl: do you happen to know if thom can act as deputy archive admin in elmo's absence?12:17
Cymmost of the changes look like simple code cleanups12:17
Kamionif not, I will have to do some strange workarounds for array 612:17
Cymwell, thanks guys, ill start with another bug report12:19
Cymi couldnt get anywhere with debian12:19
KamionCym: (the Debian maintainer is also the upstream maintainer in this case)12:20
mjg59ogra: Hi12:20
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CymMatthew Palmer12:21
ogramjg59: i hav hibernate working on my acer 1520 (amd64) recently....12:21
mjg59ogra: Rock12:21
ogramjg59: but if i choose a higher console resolution then 80x24 the console is totally broken after wakeup12:22
ograis this related to a missing vbetool in amd64 ? or should i look somewhere else....12:22
mjg59Using framebuffer or just vgacon?12:24
ograhmm, just vga=771 i think thats framebuffer ?12:24
mjg59vbetool may help, but framebuffers (especially vesafb) don't have decent suspend/resume support yet12:25
dholbachthere's no vbetool on amd64 yet12:25
ograah, ok....so i will live with 80x24 then....at least its great i hav "any" supend now....thanks for the good work :)12:26
mjg59dholbach: Indeed. I need to port it to x86emu at some stage.12:29
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mjg59I'm not especially looking forward to doing so.12:29
dholbachmjg59: i can really imagine12:29
=== dholbach comforts mjg59
mjg59Actually, I'm tempted to just write an lrmi->x86emu layer12:30
mjg59Might as well make it generalisable12:30
mjg59And vm86 is preferable on x8612:30
dholbachi'll be back later12:33
dholbachmjg59: good luck with it :-)12:33
danielsmjg59: word12:34
mjg59daniels: That radeon stuff seems to work now - we've got Thinkpads suspending without excessive battery use12:40
danielsmjg59: phat :)12:40
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Cymdarn, this bugzilla page has been trying to load for 10 min now12:44
Kamionit'll be the component selector :(12:44
Cymdoesnt seem to work :(12:46
Cymis there a good time to come back and talk with the resident apache guru?12:47
KamionCym: not sure when thom'll be back. if you wait until Canadian daytime, infinity might be around too ...12:49
Cymsure, its not a problem. I can wait12:50
CymI never know what timezone i need to be in :)12:51
CymI am getting by with downgrading, but I would just like to straighten this one package out.. its the only one Ive had to hold back for a few months now12:52
Cymits taunting me12:52
Cymthanks for your help Kamion12:53
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KamionCym: I solve the timezone issue by accepting half-day lags in conversations :)12:58
Cymhehe yah im used to that :)12:58
Cymthis is just one of those things that would be better worked out over irc I think.. 12:59
thomKamion: archive should be syncing now, www.* is back 01:02
Cymoh hi thom01:03
seb128thom: you rocl :)01:03
seb128rock even01:03
thomCym: hi; i'm in the datacenter right now, not best time for questions :-)01:03
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thomi'll  be home in an hour or so01:03
thomKamion: (infinity is in .au)01:03
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zul2.6.11 was tagged in bitkeeper 5 hours a go01:04
Kamionthom: oh, oops. when did he move?01:04
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Kamionthom: archive> woot01:04
thomKamion: a year ago? maybe more01:04
Cymill be back in a few hours01:05
sivangmorning all01:05
Kamionthom: obviously I'm just way behind the times01:05
zulgotta go to work01:06
danielsKamion: yeah, Cambridge can do that to you01:06
Kamiondaniels: when did it become 1700 AD, anyhow?01:06
=== thom -> home
thomKamion: *giggle*01:07
thomKamion: when the sun rose over the edge of the world01:07
danielsthom: and totally missed England01:08
danielsthom: lucky you guys are all going to Canberra for a week beforehand -- you'll feel totally at home01:09
danielsdull, boring, and overcast ;)01:09
Kamiondaniels: dude, England is like the French Riviera compared to Belfast01:09
thomblah at 2 hours travel for 30 mins in the data center01:11
=== ross_ is now known as rburton
thomKamion: also, if you log into syowa from little you'll need to ensure your host key is up to date01:12
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Kamionthom: done, thanks01:14
danielsKamion: fair point01:15
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pittidoko: thanks for fixing curl01:20
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ograsmurfix: ping01:28
sivangogra: yo :)01:32
ograyo ?01:32
sivangogra: like "Hi" :)01:37
sivangogra: not Jaw01:38
ograyeah, i know ;)01:38
ograhi sivang :)01:38
sivanghi ogra , how have you been?01:38
sivangpitti: how can I mount a usb key manually?01:38
pittisivang: pmount /dev/sda101:39
sivangpitti: ok, I need to check why this is not working automatically on this laptop01:39
pittisivang: lshal, killall gnome-volume-manager && gnome-volume-manager01:39
sivangpitti: /me attempts01:39
tsengjdub: so, gamin .25 doesnt work around the lock01:41
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seb128lamont: here ?01:55
jdubelmo: hooray, thank you! :)01:58
seb128elmo: cool, clearlooks :)01:59
ograyeah....and it 0.3 :)02:02
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pittithom: do you think that you will package mozilla 1.7.6 for Hoary?02:08
pittithom: because of http://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/mfsa2005-15.html02:08
pittithom: (this also needs a Warty update for ffox and moz, happy happy joy joy)02:08
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pittithom: fortunately, it's a trivial patch02:09
pittidaniels: security fix!02:11
danielsoh man02:12
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jdubjdubtv! -> now in DV! -> http://node.waugh.id.au:8800/02:19
jdubseb128: :-)02:19
jdubseb128: more to come about that too :-)02:19
da_bon_boni want to translate ubuntu to hindi. can i be of any help ?02:19
tsenggood morning jdub lovers02:19
da_bon_bonanyone from the l10n team here ?02:20
ograjdub: do you have david hamilton there (looks like butter on the lens)02:20
seb128jdub: ah ah :)02:21
mvogo jdub !02:21
da_bon_boni want to help translate ubuntu to hindi. can i be of any help ?02:22
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dholbachjdub: you could give live classes online for new MOTUs for example :-)02:24
danielskamion tv!02:25
ograyay, colin watson tv02:25
danielsmdz is already on tv02:25
danielstune into mtv02:25
danielshe goes under the alias 'moby'02:25
dholbachwonder, if he heard it :-)02:25
KamionI don't really get this <foo>tv thing, watching somebody hack is not that exciting :)02:25
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mvoKamion: but jdub does not only hack, he also makes funny faces all the time :p02:26
danielsKamion: but everyone would totally watch kamion tv02:26
jdubKamion: you're totally in demand for MOTU|TV02:26
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helixah, you guys need to watch mako hack02:26
dholbachyes! kamion!02:26
ograhelix: url ? ;)02:27
Treenaksjdub: we need OgraTV or MithrandirTV really02:27
helixI don't think I have a url for this02:27
=== dholbach would record every show of kamion tv
danielsrhythmbox has locked up again.  this means it's time for bed.02:27
helixI have only seen it LIVE02:27
danielsKamion: i'm crashing now, and will be unreachable for around the next 24 hours by stupid co-incidences.  if there are any xorg issues i'll need to look at before then, call or sms and i'll see if I can't get myself access02:28
Kamiondaniels: ok, thanks. if I can fix them easily myself, I will; I expect most of today to be waiting for stuff02:28
danielsKamion: ok cool, thanks.  cheers :)02:29
=== Kamion -> lunch while a million svn tags are renamed
Treenakswb jdub 02:33
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Treenaksjdub: any idea when you'll be able to put flumotion & friends in Debian (experimental/sid/anything) ?02:39
jdubthe next package set i upload to hoary, i'll be uploading to debian too02:40
Treenaksjdub: cool :)02:40
jdubit's newly split out02:40
Treenaksdholbach: my server is not running ubuntu (yet?)02:40
dholbachgood excuse to re-install it :-)02:41
Treenaksdholbach: nah, I'm one of the few people who thinks sarge will eventually release02:41
jdubi run sarge on my mipsel machine.02:41
jdubmipsel.ubuntu.com doesn't resolve yet.02:41
jdubjoin the dots. ;-)02:41
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jon1012hi :)02:45
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pittiHi Astharot 02:46
Astharothi pitti 02:46
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seb128lamont: kick evolution to build please :)02:47
kokeshouldn't gaim build-deps on libhowl-dev?02:47
kokefirst, hi all! :D02:48
seb128no, we are kicking howl out, it's non-free02:49
jbaileyseb128: *lol*, serious?02:49
Keybukseb128: it is?  which bit?02:50
=== Keybuk thought howl was 3-clause BSD
Treenaksseb128: since when?02:50
rburtonKeybuk: howl contains apple APSL2 code02:50
seb128#295775: Build-depends on libhowl-dev, which will become non-free or removed02:50
seb128you can read about it here02:51
seb128BTW I'm away for ~1 hour, bbl :)02:51
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=== Keybuk watches another jdub recommendation bite the dust <g>
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kokeseb128: I don't know why, but gaim fails compiling if I don't have libhowl-dev02:53
=== sivang --> back after network outage
kokeI mean, apt-get source gaim; cd gaim-*; debuild -b02:54
pittisivang: any luck with g-c-m?02:54
Treenakskoke: maybe it's built with --with-something ?02:55
Treenakskoke: (where something is howl-related)?02:55
dholbachKeybuk: that's not nice02:55
rburtonkoke: probably one of the other gnome libs .la file still refers to howl02:55
sivangpitti: do you have any idea why gksudo doesn't know it;s should run with the current user rather then root?02:55
sivangpitti: maybe it's becasue I am sending it a null env ?02:56
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Keybukdholbach: he knows I love him, raelly :p02:56
pittisivang: hmm, it should get the current user from getuid(), not from env's $LOGIN02:56
kokehmmm, I see, it crahsed at plugins/gevolution02:56
dholbachYEAH! P0RN!02:56
pittisivang: erm, $USER02:56
zultseng: ping i should have it real soon now02:57
pittisivang: however, if it doesn't work, just use NULL as environment, this should inherit the env to gksudo02:57
dholbachjdub: did you know, Keybuk loves you?02:57
tsengzul: rock02:57
pittisivang: I think gksudo cleans its env anyway02:57
tsengzul: ill be here02:57
thommjg59: 7079 is all you :-)02:57
zultseng: ok ill be in a meeting at 10 but its building right now02:57
jdubdholbach: he humps my leg regularly.02:58
pittisivang: erm, with an emtpy environment you don't even get $DISPLAY02:58
jdubdholbach: so i kinda get the message/02:58
pittisivang: i. e. gksudo shouldn't even start02:58
dholbachLOL :-)02:58
sivangpitti: hrm right, NULL means to inherit the caller env02:58
Treenakspitti: well, at least you won't have a security hole there 8)02:58
pittisivang: does it work?02:58
pittiTreenaks: class-1 firewall :-) -> pull the A/C plug02:59
Treenakspitti: exactly! :)02:59
ograpitti: nah, thats to harsh....network plug is sufficient02:59
sivangpitti: but I tested running gksudo from bash - it works fine, from the g_spawn_sync it asks for the root password. I will see how I can pass it the uid from getuid()02:59
mjg59thom: Oh, FFS02:59
sivangpitti: so I assumed this has something to do with an empty env, wrong again I was :-/03:00
Treenakssivang: Like Yoda, you sound!03:00
pittisivang: you cannot "pass" it a getuid()03:00
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sivangTreenaks: hehe03:04
elmoKamion: ubuntu20 went through on this cron.daily03:05
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mjg59thom: hibernate.sh is actually coredumping, which is impressive. I'm not sure if the other errors are related to that or not.03:05
thommjg59: that's pretty rad03:07
Treenaksjdub: Ooohh!03:07
sivangpitti: hmm03:07
dholbachyeah :-)03:07
mjg59thom: It ought to just be a whine, so I'm not sure why it crashes03:09
Treenaksjdub: you shuold start #jdub-tv, to limit offtopic stuff03:09
jdubah, go to #ubuntu-love ;)03:10
mjg59Hrm. I wonder if swsusp ought to be disabling preemption during resume.03:10
mjg59thom: I /think/ we might be able to get around this with a preempt_disable()/preempt_enable pair03:14
mjg59Oh, no, I might have this utterly wrong. Argh.03:15
jdubwine is very special03:16
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sivangjdub: this is crossover free wine?03:17
sivangjdub: cool :)03:18
jdubjust wine03:18
truluxjdub: heya03:18
jdubyo yo03:18
Treenaksjdub: the only question I have is: WHY?03:18
truluxjdub: :) coulod we talk on a new mailing list creation?03:18
jdubTreenaks: default font chosen03:19
truluxjdub: ok, many thanks in advance, mdz and I have talked about the creation of a list on ubuntu proactive security implementation03:19
truluxjdub: it means to have both support and development lists03:20
truluxmdz: there?03:20
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Kamionelmo: rock, thanks03:25
Kamionbloody hell, my laptop is *still* busy renaming svn tags, I set it going on that before lunch03:25
Kamionadmittedly the full checkout is nearly 1GB03:26
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Riddellelmo: could you add my key to be accepted for uploads to main?03:34
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zuli just found this: http://people.redhat.com/davej/hardware-problems.txt03:42
=== thom spanks benh
Kamionwhat's he done?03:45
thomAC Power               : 003:45
thomBattery count          : 003:45
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thomdesktop macs apparently run without power :P03:45
Kamionthey're just that cool03:45
Treenaksthom: hey, I want a few of those :)03:45
=== thom adds workarounds
thomTreenaks: heh; it neatly balances the heat being spewed from the itanium and alpha next to it03:47
jon1012hmm... just asking, do you think that it could be possible to add my app to universe ? (appliworks, http://appliworks.jondesign.net )03:48
jon1012(the 0.4 will be out in just 1 week or something like that)03:48
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metalikopjon1012: it looks possible03:50
jon1012I'm resolving some little issues, but 98% of the features are done03:51
metalikopI'll check it out03:51
metalikophave you already made a .deb?03:52
jon1012never :(03:52
metalikopno problem03:52
jon1012I use ubuntu as my daily development environment but I'm coming from fedora...03:53
metalikopno problem, I'll put one together03:53
jon1012wow thx :)03:54
metalikopthis seems a lot like f-spot03:54
jon1012oh, in a lot of ways maybe, but the context is not the same03:54
metalikopit's good to have a few to choose from03:54
jon1012where f-spot tend to be big and with a lot of features, appliworks want to be really simple to use03:55
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rburtonit's also good to pool the effort to make a better program03:55
jon1012(90% of the things are done via DND)03:55
jon1012and it's written in C03:55
jon1012so it doesn't need all the mono environment03:55
sabdfldaniels: any idea why installing Xnest doesn't give me the "Login in a New Window" option in the menu?03:56
sabdflis there a command line way to fire up gdm in a nested session?03:56
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jon1012gdm-Xnest no ?03:56
rburtonsabdfl: gdm should provide that menu item03:57
jon1012GdmXnest escuse me03:57
jdubsabdfl: gdmflexiserver -n03:57
Kamionthom: on being told about www.u.c being down this morning, my fiancee asked whether it ran Windows ;-)03:57
jdubsabdfl: the menu should appear, might be a menu update problem03:57
jdubrburton: TryExec=Xnest03:58
rburtonaaaah genius03:58
jdubso i'm thinking of adding a TryExec=.../samba to the shares-admin thingy03:59
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jdubbut it also does nfs03:59
=== jdub is not convinced that shares-admin is the right way to go about it
sabdfljdub: ok, it appeared after a logout/login03:59
sabdflrburton: jon1012: thanks03:59
jdubsabdfl: killall gnome-panel is a bit easier in future :)03:59
jdubnow that you've re-logged-in, you've probably got a new version of gam_server running, which will help04:00
sabdfljdub: am lookin for *minimal* changes to gdm human login04:01
jdubsabdfl: will most likely just be colour.04:02
sabdflq: should we indicate the version of ubuntu on the gdm login?04:02
jdubsabdfl: the gradient is a problem though04:02
sabdflif we are only making tiny tweaks, it's nice to be able to see it04:02
sabdflcurrent play is 5.04 // slinky // Wed Mar 02, 3:02 PM04:02
Treenakswasn't that a debian release once?04:03
sabdflmy laptop04:03
Treenaksah ok :)04:03
dredgnah, that was slink04:03
dredgclose though04:03
Treenaksdredg: oh yeah04:03
jdubsabdfl: cliff is pretty clear on the recognition power of the current gdm; so far we're just going to change colour, and do something about the gradient.04:03
sabdflsomething subtle... colours on that one are pretty good04:04
jdubif we put a version number in, it ought to be "Ubuntu 5.04"04:04
sabdflthe thing i'd like to have seen there are some of the eye-candy fadeover effects for colour transitions04:04
sabdflmousover is a little SUDDEN at the moment04:04
jdubthat requires quite a bit more work04:04
sabdflalso, the colour transition should affect the icons as well as the text04:05
sivangare we having some problems with the archive?04:05
sivangit won't let me download a source pkg04:05
jdubsivang: there were update issues earlier04:05
sivangjdub: hrm04:06
sivangjdub: ok04:06
dredgyeah, the area around 'username' is very obviously not part of the gradient04:06
Kamionshould be fine now though04:06
=== jdub is up to 'e' on a bit mirror run
sivangErr http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main libgnomecups 0.1.14-0ubuntu2 (dsc)04:06
sivang  Temporary failure resolving archive.ubuntu.comE04:06
sivang0% [Connecting to archive.ubuntu.com] 04:06
Kamionthat's a DNS problem04:07
Kamionprobably at your end ...04:07
thomKamion: *grumble* :P04:08
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jduboh well, at least 2.6.11 didn't come out closer to final release date :)04:08
KamionI'm still confused about the way our linux-source-2.6.11.orig.tar.gz isn't04:09
Kamionnext time, I think we should do linux-source-2.6.12~1.orig.tar.gz or whatever04:09
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dokokamion: ~ is already allowed in ubuntu?04:10
Kamiondoko: depends if we care about upgrades from woody any more; I guess since sarge isn't released, that's still a consideration04:11
Kamionoh, hang on, linux-source-2.6.11.orig.tar.gz never got uploaded04:11
Kamionmust've just been fabbione talking about that04:11
thomKamion: thought it was in universe04:12
pittiKamion: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/l/linux-source-2.6.11/linux-source-2.6.11_2.6.11.orig.tar.gz04:12
MithrandirKamion: we do have ~ versions in already04:12
Kamionpitti: ah yes04:13
pittiKamion: probably he wants to maintain the changes to final as a patch, or so04:13
KamionMithrandir: yeah, but IIRC not in anything required for the upgrade?04:13
Kamionpitti: yes, I think it's better not to take that approach though04:13
pittiagree :-), it's a bit ugly04:14
MithrandirKamion: well, true04:14
Kamionalthough sarge base is now changing little enough that it's probably safe to upgrade via that if you're careful04:15
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dholbach brb04:28
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sivangseb128: how come there is a libgnomecups package downloaded on it's own in source form, and there is also one the same name in the gnome-cups-manager src pkg? (they have different files)04:33
pittisivang: the one in g-c-m is libgnomecups-ui04:33
pittisivang: or, rather libgnomecupsui04:34
lamontgood morning04:34
pittiHey lamont04:34
lamontKamion: ubuntu19 was ftbfs on all but powerpc, fwiw04:34
pittilamont: can you please ping me when you have a couple of minutes for discussing something?04:35
sivanghiya lamont 04:35
Kamionlamont: yeah, fixed in ubuntu2004:35
lamontKamion: woot04:36
sivangpitti: but the name of the direcotry is identical : gnome-cups-manager-0.28/libgnomecups04:36
seb128sivang: I don't understand the question04:36
pittiseb128: nevermind04:36
sivangseb128: pitti already helps me , thanks :)04:36
seb128thanks pitti :)04:36
pittisivang: yes, but it's just the directory name that is misleading04:36
Kamionlamont: and byhanded by elmo before he left, and now hopefully just waiting for xorg_6.8.2-2_ia64 ...04:36
pittiseb128: look in libgnomecups/.libs/04:36
sivangpitti: should be probably changed04:36
Kamionseb128: any more desktop stuff to come before array 6?04:37
sivangpitti: this stuff makes you loose valuable time :)04:37
jdubKamion: new ubuntu-artwork coming04:37
lamontKamion: don't bother waiting - most of gnome is in eternal dep-wait hell because of gnome04:37
seb128Kamion: yep04:37
seb128Kamion: depending if lamont has kicked stuff than need a kick or not04:37
jdubseb128: you want a gnome upstream comparison done?04:37
seb128Kamion: ie: evolution 2.1.604:37
sivangpitti: ok, g-c-m has it's own gksudo enabled spawning function, I am going to use it, would you like to review it for security implications?04:37
seb128jdub: please04:37
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lamont     1350 Log for failed build of bug-buddy_2.9.92-0ubuntu1 (dist=hoary)04:38
lamont      968 Log for failed build of curl_7.12.3-2ubuntu1 (dist=hoary)04:38
lamont     1729 Log for failed build of gnome-system-tools_1.1.92-0ubuntu1 (dist=hoary04:38
lamont      252 Log for failed build of gtk-doc_1.3-0ubuntu1 (dist=hoary)04:38
lamont     1736 Log for failed build of ximian-connector_2.1.6-0ubuntu1 (dist=hoary)04:38
pittisivang: I take a look at it. file and function?04:38
lamontthat's my i386 list04:38
pittilamont: curl is already sorted out04:38
lamontpitti: once I get done with bitching about gnome, I'll ping you04:38
pittilamont: thanks to doko04:38
seb128lamont: quick x-c please04:38
seb128lamont: bug-buddy has a new version in04:38
sivangpitti: gnome-cups-manager-0.28/libgnomecups/gnome-cups-permission.c::gnome_cups_spawn04:38
lamontseb128: x-c says: e2k-autoconfig.c:58:42: libedataserverui/e-passwords.h: No such file or04:39
seb128lamont: yeah, need to picks the new eds I guess04:39
Kamionlamont: mm, what's the bottom of the ia64 dep-wait chain?04:39
Kamionseb128: give me a shout when you're done, I'll test stuff in the meantime04:40
lamontKamion: gonna figure that out in a few seconds, but I have 23 ia64 failure logs in my mailbox, almost all of them because of uninstallable depends04:40
=== Kamion kicks cron.daily
seb128Kamion: we don't really need these new versions for array 6, if you want to roll it without them that's ok04:41
pittisivang: yeah, use it if it helps04:41
jdubare dependency migrations into main automated?04:41
Kamionjdub: no04:41
pittisivang: should have an easier interface04:41
Kamionseb128: there isn't a vast hurry, some hours would be fine04:41
jdubKamion: do they require elmo and latex gloves?04:41
seb128Kamion: k04:41
Kamionjdub: elmo unless thom knows how to do it; latex gloves are optional04:41
sivangpitti: might also make the patch less intrusive04:41
thomdon't know dependency migration magic, no04:42
Kamionjdub: not requiring any such stuff for array 6 would be good04:42
jdubKamion: ok.04:42
thomjdub: if you're gonna inflict clearlooks on the masses, please can you work out why i no longer have a mist metacity theme04:43
jdubthom: ubuntu-artwork update is going to include cursors and stuff, but i'm not going to mass-fix upstream bugs directly in hoary04:44
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sivangmorning mdz05:03
mdzKamion: what's the latest on array 6?05:04
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Kamionmdz: test version building, but would prefer to wait for a few more desktop things from seb128 to sync up; new kernel, xorg 6.8.2-2, and updated d-i all in05:05
Kamionand new language packs in I think, but need to check05:05
mirakI try to run ubuntu using colinux on windows05:07
mirakhowever there is a problem05:07
mdzKamion: ok05:07
mdzKamion: ~mdz/bin/awty :-)05:07
miraksomething tries to acces to the pci port, and of course it doesn't work.05:07
mirakI was wondering if there is any particular service that ubuntu run that would try to probe pci ports at begining of run level 205:08
mirakI should ask that in other channel probably05:08
Kamionmdz: heh05:10
Kamionuseful, that05:10
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mdza bit heavy-handed05:11
pittiHi mdz 05:11
Kamionmdz: it should look for newest of installer-$arch and daily-installer-$arch05:11
mdzyes, it should05:11
mdzpitti: morning05:11
Kamionnoticeable at the moment since daily-installer-powerpc wasn't working for a while05:12
zultseng: go get it ill be back later05:13
zultseng: http://zulinux.homelinux.net/ubuntu/kernel05:13
lamontseb128: which version of which package is it that fixes the whole 'libhowl.la is missing' failure thang?05:19
seb128for x-c ?05:20
mdzKamion: which package could I use as a test case to fix the daily-installer/installer thing?05:20
Kamionmdz: rootskel05:21
lamontseb128: looking at a diff package on either ia64 or hppa, truth be told, as I wander through my email.05:22
lamontgetting tired of doing the 05:22
lamontgive-everything-back-and-pray trick05:22
seb128lamont: basically dropping libhowl-dev out of libgnomevfs2-dev 05:23
seb128lamont: but libgnome libgnomeui evolution-data-server libbonoboui etc have it in their .la file05:24
seb128and thanks libtool05:24
lamontso things that are failing because of that want to d-w the current (source) version of libgnomevfs2-dev05:24
seb128we get that mess05:24
seb128we want to rebuilt all these libs to get rid of libhowl in all the la files05:24
=== lamont will continue the hail-mary approach, then
seb128grep howl /usr/lib/*.la05:24
seb128yeah, keep smatching the retries ...05:25
seb128if you give me a failure I can say which one is faulty05:25
mdzKamion: ok, fixed05:28
lamontseb128: ia64 is still failing eel2 with howl bitchiness05:28
lamontbut 20+ other packages are in the blender, we'll see what the next round says05:29
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Kamionmdz: cool, yeah. BTW I think your set import logic at the top is wrong05:30
Kamion(purely on a technicality)05:30
Kamionfirstly 1.5 won't meet that condition but 1.3 will (if you care), and secondly set looks like it'll be undefined with python 2.405:32
seb128lamont: Setting up libgnome-desktop-dev (2.9.92-0ubuntu1) ...05:33
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seb128lamont: that's the issue for eel2, need 2.9.92-0ubuntu205:33
Kamionhm, except set() is a builtin in 2.4, silly me05:33
mvoKamion: is it too late to move libgnome2-perl to desktop? we discussed it a while ago on ubuntu-devel ML 05:34
Kamionmvo: not from my point of view, but talk to mdz/jdub about that05:34
KamionI don't have jurisdiction over desktop05:34
jdubi think it was heading towards a yes05:36
=== mvo hugs jdub
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ograjdub: lets rewrite it in python for hoary+1 ;)05:37
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sivangogra: let's rewrite everything in python for hoary+1 ! ;-) could be like python desktop05:38
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ograsivang: so get more MOTUs in ;) 05:39
lamontseb128: cool05:39
dholbachogra: and someone to review their packages ;-)05:39
sivangpitti: halfway there, the gui is now responsive to weather browsing is enabled/disabled/custom. now make a callback for enabling/disabling.05:39
lamontseb128: so, like we said, given the speed of the buildd's, hail-mary approach is probably simplest/fastest05:39
ograsivang: then lets start with the kernel ;) 05:39
mvojdub: I assume I can't to the seed change myself?05:39
sivangogra: hehe05:39
sivangogra: that was a very good one :)05:40
mdzmvo: not right now, please05:40
pittisivang: cool05:40
seb128lamont: out of the bases libs that should go fine05:40
sivangpitti: hope to finish this soon, so it would get in05:40
pittisivang: please note that there is still a bug in g-c-m05:40
mdzmvo: we are preparing array 605:40
lamontseb128: although g-s-t on amd64 concerns me...05:40
mvomdz: ok05:40
pittisivang: if you enable browsing, you don't immediately see new printers05:40
jdubmvo: post-preview would be better, i think05:40
pittisivang: you have to restart g-c-m to see them there05:40
pittisivang: however, they will work05:41
mvojdub: ok05:41
sivangpitti: unfourtunately I don't have my lan here, I am not at home, you would have to check it for me :-)05:41
pittisivang: sure, I'll do05:41
seb128lamont: Setting up libnautilus-extension1 (2.9.91-0ubuntu2) ...05:41
seb128lamont: need 2.9.9205:41
sivangpitti: but you are restarting g-c-m with you backend scripts05:41
sivangpitti: when we go enable/disable05:42
pittisivang: however, you can check yourself with "/usr/share/cups/browsing_status; echo $?"05:42
pittisivang: no, I restart cupsys, not g-c-m05:42
pittisivang: if you w05:42
pittisivang: if you can work around this bug by restarting g-c-m, this would be nice05:42
pittisivang: however, the bug should just be fixed05:42
pittisivang: I'll look into this tomorrow, though05:42
lamontseb128: any word on gtk-doc?05:43
seb128lamont: a sec, I look on it05:44
lamontthere's a bug in bz about it05:44
lamont(build-conflicts openjade, but build-depends something that depends openjade...05:44
lamontback in a few05:45
seb128oh yeah, I've read that mail05:45
sivangpitti: do we have till tommorow?05:46
pittisivang: for bugfixing, yes05:46
pittisivang: we can always fix bugs05:46
sivangpitti: if we have till tommorow our UTC time, then I will also try tackle restarting g-c-m :)05:46
pittisivang: however, your stuff is partly a new feature05:46
pittisivang: so this is urgent05:47
sivangpitti: right 05:47
sivangpitti: ok, if we have until tommorow I'll see about restarting g-c-m after finishing this work05:47
pittisivang: don't worry, we can restart it if fixing the actual bug is too complicated/invasive05:48
pittisivang: for now, just do the required stuff to call enable_browsing05:48
sivangpitti: ok, till _when_ do we have time?05:48
pittisivang: would be nice if you finished it today05:49
pittisivang: otherwise we do that after the preview05:49
sivangpitti: which means for hoary+1 ?05:49
pittisivang: and can test the stuff in between05:49
pittisivang: no, after the hoary preview05:49
pittisivang: i. e. in the last month before the release05:49
pittisivang: but the sooner, the better05:49
sivangpitti: right, ok, back to work :)05:49
mdzseb128: which bits do you need to upload yet for array 6?05:55
seb128mdz: all is uploaded, wait to get the builds all right05:56
seb128mdz: i386 seems to be fine, gnome-themes 2.9.94 to build that's all but we don't need it for the array05:56
mdzseb128: is the powerpc icons bug fixed?05:56
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seb128mdz: yep, with gtk 2.6.305:56
seb128jdub: around ?05:58
mdzmvo: update-notifier seems to still detect live CDs as upgradeable05:59
seb128mdz: do you know if somebody will update the desktop files for gnome-app-install ?06:00
Kamionmdz: mmm, I thought I fixed that06:00
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dholbachseb128: yeah! games! :-)06:00
mdzKamion: I saw the Packages files disappear at one point06:00
mvomdz: I was under the impression that Kamion fixed that?06:00
Kamionthe Packages files appear to be gone06:01
Kamionapart from the ones under debian-installer/, obviously06:01
=== mvo downloads a live cd from today to test
mdzconfirmed that a) non-d-i Packages files are gone, but b) update-notifier still wants to upgrade from it06:01
=== mvo kicks update-notifier
jdubseb128: yo06:01
mdzhmm, stand by06:02
seb128jdub: about gnome-app-install / desktop files ?06:02
mdzperhaps that was actually from the previous CD06:02
mdzsometimes g-v-m wakes up when I burn a CD, and notices the previous volume in the drive06:02
mdzjdub: if you aren't going to get that done before preview, the time to hand it off is right now06:02
jdubseb128: busy preparing talk for tomorrow; will most likely do it tomorrow afternoon06:03
jdubmdz: data just needs tweakage, and then we'll need some g-a-i work06:04
seb128jdub: I can do it if you want ... do you have any tool to get the desktop files ?06:05
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mvojdub: what kind of g-a-i work is needed?06:05
jdubseb128: 'sok, will sort out with ross tomorrow06:06
seb128mvo: s/gtk.TRUE/True/g :)06:07
mvoseb128: heh06:07
seb128/usr/lib/gnome-app-install/AppInstall.py:99: GtkDeprecationWarning: gtk.TRUE is deprecated, use True instead06:07
seb128that's ugly :p06:07
mdzmvo: yes, I just tested properly and the live CD is still recognized by update-notifier06:07
jdubmvo: just some bugfixing for weird .desktop files06:08
mdzI also noticed a bug in gnome-app-install yesterday, where if it can't find a certain package, it throws a stack trace and gets into a bad state06:08
jdubbum. we really ought to ship gimp-svg.06:08
rburtonmdz: eek. can you replicate?06:08
mdzrburton: let me boot the machine in question, and I can get you the trace from ~/.xsession-errors06:09
mdzit looked trivial to fix06:09
rburtonmdz: excellent. mail it to ross@burtonini.com, thanks06:09
rburtonmvo: i get lots of (synaptic:1058): Gdk-CRITICAL **: gdk_window_set_cursor: assertion `window != NULL' failed when g-a-i spawns synaptic06:10
jdubfile and cc ross@burtonini.com please06:10
jdubugh, mirroring really hammers my network06:10
rburtonmvo: right, and synaptic has hung again06:10
rburton 1062 ?        Zs     0:00 [synaptic]  <defunct>06:10
mvomdz: I'm downloading a current cd now and will fix it then06:11
mvorburton: I'll take care of the warnings06:11
mdzrburton: mailed06:12
mdzrburton: looks like it needs "self.cache[name]  and ..." or similar06:12
mdzor name in self.cache06:12
mdzbuilding new live images with xorg 6.8.2-2 now06:19
mvomdz: do you want me to upload a fixed update-notifer (once it's fixed)? or should I wait until array-6 is finished?06:20
rburtonright, if "foo" is in baz control but i want the pristine file, i did mv foo foo.newer and now baz update won't give me the original06:21
rburtonwhy won't it do what cvs does!06:21
mdzmvo: trivial fix?06:21
mdzrburton: you want "baz undo"06:21
mvomdz: no idea yet, still downloading a testcd :/06:21
mdzwhich I find more intuitive than what cvs does06:22
rburtonah yes06:22
mdzmvo: then let's wait :-)06:22
rburtonso i cp the file and baz undo it06:22
Kamion(baz undo -n to throw away the change rather than leaving ,,undo-*)06:22
mdzrburton: or just baz undo it; it saves your changes so you can redo them later, etc.06:22
mvomdz: ok :)06:23
rburtonaaah ok06:23
lamontmdz: where does it save them?06:23
rburtonmdz: my arch tree has fixed your bug now i hope06:24
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Keybuklamont: those are debris left by a bug in "baz update"06:26
lamontKeybuk: ah, ok06:27
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mdzjdub: is the new ubuntu-artwork Cliff's stuff?06:53
jdubmdz: no06:53
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mdzjdub: where does that stand?  he told me you guys had a meeting scheduled last night, but didn't say when06:53
jdubmdz: we've had rolling meetings now that he's grokked the timezones06:54
jdubmdz: goals are set, we're tracking daily drops, etc.06:54
mdzjdub: are we on track to get a drop into hoary for preview?06:56
jdubmdz: yep06:57
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mdzjbailey: ping, re: scsi.agent06:59
tsengjdub: 06:59
tsengcrw-rw-rw-  1 root root 10, 63 2005-03-02 12:57 /dev/inotify06:59
Kamionis scsi.agent not done?06:59
jdubtseng: 0.20?06:59
tseng.18 + one liner06:59
mdzKamion: jbailey's intended changes are done; I want to discuss an additional change06:59
Kamionah, ok06:59
jdubtseng: ahr!06:59
mdzspecifically, that sg should be loaded for cdrom devices06:59
mdzin order to support writers07:00
jbaileymdz: HEre.  What's up?07:00
mdzjbailey: see above07:00
=== tseng tests the media/mnt issue
mdzjbailey: I emailed you a (substandard) diff07:01
jbaileymdz: md and I were chatting by email about that - I don't get any information telling me that it's a burner AFAIK.  I can simply always load sg when there's a SCSI device easily enough.07:01
mdzjbailey: yeah, that's what I've been doing07:01
mdzdaniels: xserver-xorg is asking me the video mode question on every upgrade07:01
tsengjdub: hm, so still no hotplug usb showing up in drivemount-applet / desktop07:01
mdzdaniels: (this is my usual system, behind a KVM which doesn't do DDC)07:01
mdzdaniels: it's also wiping out my manually-specified sync ranges07:02
tsengjdub: was rumored to be fixed in latest gamin07:02
Kamionmdz: I'm off for dinner now; test images are syncing/burning in my absence07:02
mdzKamion: the cloop builds aren't quite finished yet, at least not for all arches07:02
Kamionno problem07:02
jbaileymdz: Oh, I see.  Do it only when it's a cd drive at all, that makes sense.  Is there nothing else that might want sg too?07:03
mdzweddell and king are finished07:03
mdzjbailey: the only examples I know of are CD writers and tape changers07:03
mdzI don't have one of the latter to test with07:03
=== mvo is away for ~1h
jbaileymdz: I can do it easily enough with st then too.07:03
mdzjbailey: if I'm not mistaken, this applies to USB writers, too07:04
mdzit doesn't typically matter for me because I use growisofs and DVD media (which doesn't require the sg madness)07:04
jbaileyDo those show up as SCSI?07:04
tsenghm, unmounting said usb hotplug device = hardlock07:04
mdzjbailey: yes07:04
mdztseng: welcome to inotify hell07:04
jbaileymdz: Then it should be covered by this.  I make sure that SCSI is run after both pci and usb.07:04
mdzs/welcome/& back/07:04
tsengat least it doesnt hardlock at login07:04
mdzat least it doesn't eviscerate you and leave you to bleed to death07:05
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tsengthat would be an interesting trick07:06
tsengcontext switch from kernelspace to meatspace07:06
thommdz: you've been using tla again?07:06
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mdzthom: did you and enrico straighten out the OMF stuff for ubuntu-docs?  they still don't seem to be showing up in yelp07:08
thomi don't appear to have anything from enrico; i'll grab and take a look07:10
froudthom: we are stuck on the OMF scrollkeeper stuf07:12
froudI have requested help from the devel group there07:13
froudno answer yet07:13
sivangfroud: see the "writing scrollkeeper OMF files" intro on d.g.o07:13
froudwe are not sure if its a scrollkeeper problem or an XML catalog problem07:13
froudsivang: its notthe OMF that is valid to the DTD07:14
froudthe problem is at registereation07:14
sivangfroud: is enrico calling update-scrollkeeper post install?07:14
froudwe get an error that the dtd cannot be loaded from the network07:14
sivangfroud: argh07:14
mdzit should point to the local copy, not the network copy07:14
froudit does07:15
froudbut the DocType Decl uses Docbook 4.307:15
mdzfroud: neither ubuntu-faqguide nor ubuntu-quickguide installs an omf file; is that intended?07:15
froudmdz: yes07:16
froudwe have notpackaged it as it does not work yet07:16
froudwe cant register the OMF without errors07:16
froudbut we also have problems with Yelp07:17
froudit doe snot support many things07:17
froudI would preffer to only use the HTML we derived from the XML07:17
froudOpen directly in FireFox from System > 07:17
mdzcan't yelp read the XML directly?07:18
froudIt can but does not support the full docbook tag set07:18
froudalso cant handle certain attributes07:18
rburtonfroud: shaun has said he'll expand the xslt on demand07:19
froudmakes a mess ofthe output result07:19
froudyes I sope to him07:19
froudhe does not hav ethe time07:19
froudI was gonna patch the XSL07:19
froudbut have not had the time for it07:19
froudso it is a bug in GNOME bugzilla07:20
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froudmdz: the scrollkeeper/OMF problem should not stop the release07:21
justincdoes hoary have multilib support for amd64 like the way fedora does it or do/will you need to create a 32bit chroot?07:21
froudproviding people will agree to use the HTML version07:21
rburtonfroud: whats the bug#?07:22
mdzfroud: ok. when is the next documentation meeting?  i would like to discuss all of the issues which are relevant to the release07:22
jdubfroud: wow, what kind of weird stuff are you using?07:22
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froudmdz: I will ask enrico     to post a metting07:22
rburtonjdub: that is what i'm thinking. most tags would be trivial to add07:22
froudjdub: docbook 4.3 but for    example we use the endterm of xref07:23
froudyelp does not know what to do in the XSL07:23
mjg59Gah damned network card reference counting07:24
jdubfroud: you should talk to shaunm on irc.gnome.org, #gnome-hackers07:24
froudjdub: I have had numerous conversations07:24
froudpersonally I dont think Yelp is production ready07:24
seb128it works great here07:25
sivangit works great for me also :)07:25
froudjdub: we can get far better results with just XHTML/HTML07:25
jdubfroud: yelp renders all the gnome documentation, which is not exactly insignificant.07:25
sivangseb128: it also _so_ pretty , I should tell shaunm about how much I like it 07:25
rburtonfroud: did you file the missing elements in gnome bugzilla?07:26
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jdubfroud: yes, there are some unsupported elements, but shaunm can very quickly outline those07:26
froudwell guys why dont you go at it07:26
jdubfroud: i would be very surprised if we required much outside the scope of the gnome documentation requirements07:26
seb128jdub: not only the GNOME one, it displays the API and other debian stuff fine too :)07:26
sivangfroud: work with shaunm, he would help us make the XML integrate nicely07:26
froudI am saying yelp does not support what we are doing in the Ubuntu Docs07:26
sivangfroud: did he get an account for the docteam svn server eventually?07:26
froudsivang he did not want one07:27
froudhe cant commit to the project no point giving him an account07:27
rburtonfroud: is there a list of tags which are problematic?07:27
sivangfroud: eh, talked with him before mataro and he was interested, well, guess he changed his mind.07:27
froudtwo are tops of the list: trademark07:27
jdubsivang: he's keen to help, but he's very busy. becoming a documentation maintainer is not going to be useful for him.07:28
froudand the endterm attribute on the xref07:28
rburtonfroud: ok07:28
sivangjdub: ah good to know he didn't change his mind then ;) and yes, I know he's very busy 07:28
froudThe GNOME docs are made to strict templates07:28
froudthese templates do not meet our requirements07:28
mxpxpodquick question: is anyone working on the 2.6.11 kernel for ubuntu?07:29
jdubfroud: why's that?07:29
froudtheir template is great if you want to write a single apps doc07:29
thomfroud: i'm still trying to work out what specific problem you guys were having with scrollkeeper/omf? is there a mailing list post or something to describe it? (also, are the omf files for faqguide/quickguide available anywhere?)07:29
tsengmxpxpod: the kernel team has been hacking on it since rcX07:29
mxpxpodtseng: awesome07:29
froudwe are writing for across mutiple apps in different context07:29
tsengmxpxpod: maybe after preview freeze..07:30
mxpxpodtseng: preview freeze?07:30
ogratseng: oh, tomorrow ?07:30
froudthom: do checkout of our svn trunk07:30
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thomfroud: which is where?07:30
froudthom: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos07:30
froudthom: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk07:30
froudWe have one omf at present for testing see in debian/07:31
mdzubuntu-docs installs release-notes.omf and about-ubuntu.omf07:31
mdzthose don't seem to cause problems, as far as I see07:31
thomthey appear to register without problems07:31
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froudmdz: can you find the docs in yelp07:34
mdzfroud: no07:34
froudwe have only been testing on about-ubuntu.omf07:34
sivangfroud: have you specificed which under seciton you want to have the file registered?07:34
sivangfroud: this is important so yelp knows where to display your doc 07:34
mdzI don't know where te look, either07:34
sivangfroud: (that is, under which catagory)07:34
froudi did not realize enrico had added the omfs already07:34
mdz    <subject category="Core|Distributions|General|Introductory"/>07:34
mdzis that the relevant bit?07:34
sivangmdz: there's also something for the other ones, like "Desktop | Developemtn | ..."07:35
sivangmdz: IIRC07:35
rburtonfroud: trademark works for me with yelp 2.1007:35
froudwe have 2.9.307:35
mdzsivang: install ubuntu-docs, look at /usr/share/omf/{about-ubuntu,release-notes}.omf07:35
mdzis current in Hoary07:36
froudat leastthat what I got in the last hoary update07:36
seb128you need the CVS snapshots07:36
rburtonthe important package is gnome-doc-utils07:36
seb128of gdu/yelp07:36
froudshaumn may have fixed some things in 2.1007:36
seb128you should try the current versions ...07:36
sivangmdz: ok, looking there in a minute.07:36
rburton<trademark> was added on 2004-05-2407:37
froudmdz: can you do scrollkeeper-install -v -p about-ubuntu_db_dir about-ubuntu.omf to see the error we get 07:37
froudseb128: why if hoary is shipping 2.9.307:38
froudmdz: the permission error is normal07:38
seb128ii  gnome-doc-utils  0.1.2cvs20050221 a collection of documentation utilities for the07:38
seb128ii  yelp             2.9.3cvs20050222 Help browser for GNOME 207:38
froudits the network entity that is the prblem07:38
seb128froud: we have some CVS snapshots07:39
froudyes of 2.9.307:39
mdzI/O error : Attempt to load network entity http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd07:39
seb128sure, that's the current version in the CVS07:39
froudmdz: that's th eproblem we want solved07:39
mdzfroud: you need to fix that in your XML07:40
froudseb128: 2.9.3 is problem07:40
seb128why ?07:40
mdzmizar:[/usr/share/ubuntu-docs/C]  grep -r 'http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd' .07:40
seb128that's the current upstream code07:40
mdz[lots of matches] 07:40
froudwhy cant we use Docbook 4.307:40
mdzfroud: you can07:40
seb128mdz: the catalog should take care of this, shouldn't it ?07:40
mdzbut it's in /usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/docbookx.dtd07:40
mdzdon't use an http:// URL07:40
mdzseb128: should it?07:40
froudmdz: that's my point hoary xml catalog resolver etc is messed07:40
rburtonfroud: what system id were you using?07:41
froudmako: logged bugs on this07:41
seb128mdz: we have stopped to sed the oasis dtd in the debian/rules since we have a catalog07:41
mdzseb128: it should detect the URL and substitute the local file?07:41
thomyour OMF doesn't match your docbook, either07:41
mdzah, I didn't know that07:41
mdzseb128: which package handles that?07:41
froudthom only the releae enotes one07:41
froudthom: only the release notes one07:41
jdubmdz: libxml2 does the resolving, if there's a valid (and useful) catalog07:42
thomfroud: about-ubuntu too07:42
froudwe are trying to get the about-ubuntu.omf working07:42
sivangfroud: what about <relation seriesid=""></> tag? I don't see you created one for about-ubuntu.omg07:42
sivangfroud: omf, even07:42
dholbachisnt it libxml2-utils?07:42
seb128mdz: the catalog stuff are in /etc/xml/ and the packages shipping a dtd are supposed to use update-catalog, but I don't really know the details on how that works07:42
sivangfroud: or did you find out it's not neccessary?07:42
froud<format mime="text/xml" dtd="-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN"/>07:43
froud<relation seriesid="7fb11226-8a1d-11d9-9fcf-ff970c259736"/>07:43
frouddo you see that in about-ubuntu.omf07:43
sivangfroud: I don't07:43
froudsvn up07:43
sivangfroud: eh, I installed from source07:44
froudno the build is behind the src07:44
froudI think enrico did the build before we discovered this problem07:44
mdzseb128: what is the URL used in the documents which work properly with the catalog?07:44
mdz./docbook-xml.xml:<delegatePublic publicIdStartString="-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN" catalog="file:///usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/catalog.xml"/>07:46
mdzthere seems to be an entry in the catalog07:46
seb128 xmlcatalog --shell 07:46
seb128> public "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN"07:47
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seb128mdz: that07:47
mdzyes, that seems to work as it should07:47
mdzisn't the problem that the files refer to the system id (URL) rather than the public id (-//OASIS...)07:47
seb128I think so07:48
froudseb128: we also have a problem with catalogs when we run xsltproc in our make07:48
froudseb128: it always wants to go to the network when the dtd is installed local07:48
seb128is your catalog working ?07:49
seb128<seb128>  xmlcatalog --shell 07:49
seb128<seb128> > public "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN"07:49
seb128<seb128> file:///usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/docbookx.dtd07:49
froudhold must reboot my hoary host I just crash ed it07:49
froudok new machine07:50
makothis series of bugs has been showing up repeatedly in debian xml packages07:50
makoi've fixed it at least three times in different places in debian07:50
froudseb128: no07:50
makoin one packages (the slides stuff) it has been reintroduced at least twcie07:51
seb128froud: so your system is broken somewhere ...07:51
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froudand everyone else on the docteam?07:52
mdzyes, the catalog lookup certainly seems to work from the shell07:52
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mdzbut it clearly isn't using it for processing the xml for some reason07:52
froudto get xslt proc working we hav eto export the xmlcatalog07:52
mdzif I change the URL to a local one, it works of course07:52
froudmdz: sure07:53
mdzshouldn't we do that as a workaround, since these documents are intended to be used primarily on Hoary?07:53
sivangfroud: when you have your OMF registering, take a look at /usr/share/scrollkeeper/Templates/C/scrollkeeper_cl.xml - make the omf falls into one of the catagories specified there, if you havn't done so already.07:53
seb128BTW time for dinner, bbl07:53
froudsivang: OK. I saw this part in the scollkeeper docs 1.007:54
froudI dont think the problem is scroollkeep I think it is the xml catalog on hoary07:54
froudmdz: yes we can, but that means we work around a bug without solving the problem07:55
sivangfroud: ah ok, just noting it to you since I managed to register some dummy docs of mine into yelp long ago, and the one thing preventing me from succeding was that I used the wrong catagories.07:55
froudmdz: it also assumes the location of the dtd will not change in the furture07:55
froudsivang: thank07:56
truluxtritium: ping07:56
tritiumtrulux, hello07:56
froudmdz: btw on my suse boxes the dtd and xsl's are indifferent places. The same place you will find them on most distros07:56
truluxtritium: going to finish as most sections as I can, the JFFS3 work could get some time before I really start coding, among the currently cailable patch, Intell will approve the work in 2 months or so :D07:56
froudI dont know why debian still has them in the old locations07:57
truluxtritium: howya?07:57
mdzfroud: as far as I can tell, the catalog is correct07:57
mdzapparently scrollkeeper isn't using it properly07:57
tritiumtrulux, I'm fine, thanks.  You?07:57
froudat this point it gets beyond me07:57
froudmdz: I am       opefully going to get a response soon from the scrollkeep devel team07:58
mdzit works if I use DocBook 4.007:58
mdzbut not 4.307:58
truluxtritium: I'm ok, happy 'cos exams finished :D07:58
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froudyou tried it and it worked or you asking07:58
mdzI tried it07:58
mdzit works for the 4.0 example document, but not for the 4.3 example document07:58
tritiumtrulux, good07:59
froudHmm ... I'm not immediately sure where the problem lies either. Would07:59
froudyou be able to attach an example OMF file that fails, please? This07:59
froudshouldn't be too hard to diagnose.07:59
froudmdz: here is the initial response from one devel of scrollkeeper ""07:59
froudso I sent him the file.07:59
froudmdz: I will role back to dtd 4.1.208:00
frouduntil we fix this08:00
froudor they do08:00
mdzthat works as well08:00
froudok that is what I will do08:00
froudmdz: thanks08:00
=== lamont grumbles about kde-in-main's effect on his local mirror, heads down to a friends house to finish babysitting gnome
mdzlamont: have you considered that perhaps you don't have enough bandwidth for a local mirror?08:01
lamontmdz: I don't have enough money to _not_ have one08:02
mdzlamont: I don't understand; a local mirror surely uses more bandwidth, not less08:02
lamontI have all the data transfer I want, at 56kbps or less.08:03
lamontthe local mirror lets me spread the download cost over the entire day08:03
lamontrather than downloading at speed (or not) as needed08:03
lamontand it's a partial mirror, although I do have it pretty much grabbing all of main (minus some langpack stuff, and -dbg packages)08:03
thomseb128: btw, OMF file [/usr/share/omf/gnome-utils/gfloppy-ja.omf]  does not validate against ScrollKeeper-OMF DTD: /usr/share/xml/scrollkeeper/dtds/scrollkeeper-omf.dtd08:04
lamontI have ~300kbps worth of bandwidth, but only ~100MB  of over-56kbps traffic per day08:05
lamontand hopefully DSL availability sometime this year.08:05
=== lamont crosses fingers
lamontanyway, back on in a few.08:05
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froudmdz: ok roleback is done will test the situation08:16
mdzfroud: great, thanks08:17
mdzfroud: please file a bug in bugzilla about this issue, so that we remember to fix it08:18
=== carlos [~carlos@202.Red-80-33-167.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
froudabout the catalog or scrollkeeper :-)08:19
mdzfroud: about the issue we just discussed08:23
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froudmdz: yes, but is the bug in scrollkeeper or the catalog system. or you mean just log the whole lot08:24
mdzfroud: the location of the bug is our problem08:24
Kamionmdz: this "xserver-xorg asks questions multiple times" thing isn't a blocker for array 6, is it? I'm assuming it doesn't affect initial installations08:26
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mdzKamion: I thought that was supposed to be fixed with 6.8.2-208:28
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thomfroud: changing the category to  General|Linux|Distributions|Othe gets about-ubuntu into yelp08:30
thomum, Other08:30
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thomfroud: `scrollkeeper-get-content-list C` is a very useful tool08:30
thom(and I think that category is more correct, anyway)08:31
jdubcheck out distrowatch08:32
jdublast three months08:32
jdubwe're number two, below a falling mandrake :)08:32
Kamionmdz: oh, I thought you reported it just recently08:32
froudthom can you post your patch to the docteam list08:32
jdubfor one month, we're 200 points ahead08:33
mdzKamion: that's a different issue, and no, not a blocker for array 608:33
Kamionmdz: ok08:33
mdzjdub: we've been ahead on 1-month for some time now, but haven't broken the 3-month list08:33
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thomfroud: ubuntu-doc@ or what?08:34
froudthom: ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com08:34
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mdzI think we need to do a lot of work on the yelp hierarchy in general08:35
mdzthings like the faq guide and quick guide should be out in front08:35
mdzand we should bury some of the more esoteric stuff, especially developer-oriented docs08:35
lamont_rjdub: and #4 on the 6 month list.08:36
sabdflyelp's *looking* fantastic, just a question of organising the content better08:36
froudmdz: then there are those of us who what to bury Yelp altogether08:36
mdzfroud: :-)08:37
sivangmdz: right, it's a bit blurry to know where to find stuff for the average user08:37
mdzthe interface is clean and simple; I understand your concerns that it is lacking in some features on the backend though08:37
jdubfroud: yelp itself is excellent. the infrastructure below is wobbly.08:37
froudKDE HelpCenter here we come08:37
mdzwe should be able to correct those working with upstream in the future08:37
mdzspeaking of KDE08:38
jdubmdz: we've already done quite a bit, working with upstream :)08:38
sabdflis there a good local search engine?08:38
mdzlamont_r: we need to start building Kubuntu cloop images08:38
mdzlamont_r: as of today, the metapackages and their deps are in main08:38
TreenaksI have a few small issues with yelp -- report bugs (minor) ?08:38
jdubsabdfl: not really, but we'll get it via medusa and/or beagle08:38
thomsabdfl: waaaah, bouncing cow is my favourite screensaver08:38
sabdflsorry dude08:38
Kamionmdz: I'll look at Kubuntu ISO images tomorrow08:39
mdzbouncing cow is a wonder of wonders08:39
jdubthom: now that pia is trying vegetarianism, she has that on all the time08:39
mdzKamion: right, after array 6 is in the bag08:39
thomsabdfl: but yes, agreed08:39
sabdflmabe we can get a high quality penguin modeled?08:39
froudjdub: the day sof help viewer tools has gone. Plain firefox is all that is required08:39
jdubsabdfl: bouncing soyuz?08:39
Kamiongood, I was hoping there was no requirement to have a Kubuntu Array 6 :)08:39
sabdflhmm... bouncing cosmonaut08:39
mdzKamion: I think we can shoot for having a kubuntu preview, though08:39
thomsabdfl: we could get a different model for each release08:39
Treenakssabdfl: get yourself modeled :P08:39
mdzat least a live CD08:39
Kamionmdz: yeah08:39
thombouncing hedgehog, etc08:39
lamont_rjdub: 1 month stat is way cool08:40
Kamionsabdfl: oh, my five-year-old stepson-to-be asks if you saw the Great Wall of China from space; I couldn't remember08:40
jdublamont_r: 250 clicks!08:40
froudthom: did you send that patch?08:41
froudI want to build08:41
froudand test08:41
mdzlamont_r: can you have a set of kubuntu cloop images ready tomorrow?08:41
thomfroud: not yet dude, chill out08:41
=== froud put behind on ice
lamont_rmdz: just need to know what to include in them08:41
thomfroud: i think you need to review all your category choices, anyway08:42
Kamionmdz: (various chunks of KDE haven't built yet judging from britney output)08:42
=== lamont_r assumes kubuntu-{base,desktop,live}
mdzlamont_r: standard base, kubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-live08:42
thomfroud: and fix how you're installing omf files08:42
thomall coming in the mail08:42
lamont_rmdz: assuming they're installable, no problem08:42
mdzlamont_r: ubuntu-base (there is not / will not be a separate kubuntu-base)08:42
Kamionwell blast, mount -t nfs riva:/kickstart doesn't want to work08:43
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froudthom: actually I don't know how we're doing it, enrico di dthat stuff . thanks for the headsup will take a look08:43
froudthom: will get this done in the morning. I am bleeding from my eyes now and my finger tips hurt08:44
=== froud off to bed
mjg59Argh christing swsusp PAIN08:46
lamont_rmdz: awesome08:46
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mdzKamion: are the published kubuntu seeds not refreshed with the same frequency as the ubuntu ones?08:47
thomfroud: sent08:47
mdznever mind, caching08:47
Kamionmdz: identical frequency, same cron job08:47
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=== thom goes to hunt down food
mdzKamion: the desktop seed in both ubuntu and kubuntu contains openoffice.org-thesaurus, which doesn't seem to have ever existed08:49
mdz(it's pure virtual)08:49
mdzI think we should just remove it08:49
Kamionisn't there -thesaurus-en and stuff?08:49
Kamionwe probably want at least some of those08:49
thommdz: it appears that evolution builds against mozilla, still08:49
mdzlanguage-support-* should handle oo.o thesauruses08:49
Kamionsure, works for me08:49
mdzbut I don't think they do currently08:49
mdzat any rate, it isn't doing anything in the seed08:49
mdzthom,seb128: is that fixable?08:50
thomi only just noticed, i'll try building it with firefox after dinner08:50
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mdzlamont_r: kubuntu-live isn't there yet, but don't let that block you08:50
Kamionmdz: certainly germinate spits out a warning for it08:50
mdzlamont_r; just use ubuntu-live in the meantime08:50
mdzuntil elmo processes the new kubuntu-meta with live love08:50
mdzKamion: as does *-meta/update08:51
lamont_rmdz: do we have kubuntu-destop, then? or is it in NEW to?08:51
lamont_rtoo, even08:51
mdzlamont_r: kubuntu-desktop is large and in charge08:52
seb128mdz: just back from dinner, reading08:52
mdzlamont_r: in main and installable08:52
=== lamont_r plans to just build both on the same machine, back to back
=== mirak [~mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-20-85.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzlamont_r: it would be nice to be able to build them separately when needed, since we're likely to revise the kubuntu stuff a lot over the next week08:55
mdz(i.e., with the ssh-able trigger you set up)08:55
lamont_ryeah - it'll be args to the same script, I expect.  ubuntu or kubuntu, defaulting to ubuntu08:55
lamont_rwell, ubuntu, kubuntu, all - choose one or more :-)08:56
thommdz: either way, can we remove the mozilla locale packs from the language-packs?08:57
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mdzthom: hmm08:58
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Loevborgmjg59, I'm conversing with you about [Bug 7079]  hibernate report: hibernate.sh crashes08:58
thomoh, my bad. they appear to be gone09:00
Loevborgmjg59, that is, you can also talk to me directly.09:00
sivangcan anybody tell me how can I use gksudo to call a root needing program from bash?09:01
wasabigksudo program09:01
seb128mdz: <mdz> thom,seb128: is that fixable? <- what ? the dtd issue ?09:01
thomsivang: gksudo echo foo09:01
sivangwasabi: doesn't work. doesn't pop up, nothing09:01
mdzseb128: evolution using mozilla, rather than firefox09:01
sivangthom: uh-ha09:01
seb128mdz: when does it uses mozilla ?09:02
thomseb128: no, evol b-d's on libnss-dev09:02
thomwhich is mozilla09:02
seb128any issue to use libnss-dev ?09:02
seb128I think that's fine ...09:02
thomseb128: it keeps mozilla in main09:02
mdzlamont_r: hmm, looks like elmo handled kubuntu-live ahead of time, so it'll be there shortly09:03
=== Cyym is now known as Cym
seb128thom: is there any firefox equivalent libs ?09:03
mdzlamont_r: oh, never mind, that was the source getting accepted. the binary will still end up in NEW09:03
lamont_runless he seeded it09:03
thomseb128: sure, libnss3.so ;-)09:04
seb128s/libs/package libs/09:04
sivangthom: doesn't work for me, I wonder what I am doing wrong.09:04
Cymthom may I pm you?09:04
seb128or you want to build-dep on mozilla-firefox-dev for that ?09:04
thomCym: prefer you don't09:04
thomCym: if you have questions, just ask09:04
Cymyah ok09:04
thomseb128: m-f-dev09:04
seb128mdz, thom: syou want to change that for hoary ?09:04
seb128thom: I'll have a lot, but you should split firefox :)09:05
Cymjust trying to get this libapache2-mod-auth-mysql issue straightend out09:05
thomCym: what's the issue?09:05
=== T-Gone is now known as T-Bone
thomseb128: yah09:05
Kamionok, NFS kickstarting extremely slow for no obvious reason, but does in fact work09:05
Kamionlamont_r: elmo said earlier that he doesn't preseed new09:06
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Cymwell, with the latest version, apache returns a 500 with an internal error message if I try to access a directory that the user does not belong to (when using "groups")09:06
zulanyone seen tseng?09:06
Cymthe "09:06
Cymthe "user" directive works fine09:06
thomnice bug09:07
tsengzul: here09:07
zulah good09:07
Cymif I go back to the previous, it works as expected, so the only difference I can see is that the latest version is supposed to support multiple "require" statements09:08
lamont_rKamion: ok09:08
Cymmost of the changes are simple code cleanups09:09
Treenaksthom: is it Known that there's novell branding in Firefox help?09:09
thomTreenaks: in our firefox help?09:10
tsengTreenaks: are you using garett's theme?09:10
Treenakstseng: oh wait that might be it09:10
tsengit is09:10
Treenaksthom: sorry for the scare09:11
thomTreenaks: np09:11
thomi really am getting food now09:11
thomCym: hrm, i'll look once i stop starving to death09:11
CymI spent some time back trying to explain it to Matthew but he could never duplicate it.. so i suppose the first thing is to reproduce it.  Although, I can reproduce this bug with both apache1.3 and apache209:11
Treenaksthom: indeed, it's gone now :)09:11
mjg59Loevborg: Oh, right, cool09:11
mjg59Loevborg: The trace is very odd, so I'm not sure whether the patch I'm suggesting will have any effect09:12
Cymthanks thom09:12
Loevborgmjg59, we'll see.09:12
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tsengjdub: 09:13
tsengdpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ubuntu-artwork_0.2.18-1_all.deb (--unpack):09:13
tseng trying to overwrite `/usr/share/gnome-background-properties', which is also in package gnome-backgrounds09:13
tsengwhich one of you wants the bug09:13
jdubah crap09:13
Kamionyay, completed a kickstart install apart from the fact that the desktop doesn't install09:14
Kamionand keyboard preseeding was fucked, fixing09:14
rburtonjdub: would you like me to knock up a new g-a-i package tonight or are you planning on dropping a pile of changes on me tomorrow?09:14
=== dholbach congratulates Kamion
zuljdub: if you are feeling daring http://zulinux.homelinux.net/ubuntu/kernel (inotify)09:16
jdubrburton: wait until tomorrow, you'll have data bugs then09:16
Kamionanything I should be waiting for before I fire off the cron.daily that will hopefully construct Array CD 6?09:16
thomKamion: #6902, do you feel strongly about adding !fqdn to the sudoers we write on install?09:16
tsengzul: lets try .20 before we push anything?09:16
tsengzul: see if it solves more bugs09:17
zultseng: yep no problem..09:17
thomKamion: not 6902, 277209:17
thomKamion: with a suitable warning comment it doesn't break the default and ensures sudo still works in the face of no dns09:18
lamont_rmdz: just to make sure we're on the same page: the first livecd download for amd64 (and ia64) after the preview will be a fullimage (not rsync friendly) based on how much smaller that gets, we can decide on whether or not to do it again for the actual release...09:18
Kamionthom: yes, fine by me, shadow writes the default file nowadays09:19
thomshadow does? righto09:19
_d4vidhi all09:21
Kamionsabdfl: the current daily doesn't install the second stage successfully, but I'd appreciate feedback on whether or not it really fixes (a) the rf kill switch detection bug, (b) the SATA/PATA CD-ROM issue09:21
Kamionactually, if everyone who can could give the current daily a go to make sure it detects all their hardware (you don't have to go past partitioning, so you don't need a scratch partition to install in or anything), I'd greatly appreciate it09:22
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mdzlamont_r: I was musing on this today; it would be nice for folks to be able to sync from the preview forward09:23
mdzlamont_r: so maybe we should flush for the preview09:23
lamont_ryour call09:23
lamont_rit's litterally just an rm on two hosts in the data center. :-)09:23
lamont_r(if the previous image is there, then we use it, you see...)09:24
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mdzKamion: whoa, what's up with the ordering change in d-i startup?09:29
Kamionmdz: the what?09:30
mdzKamion: I saw what looked like cdrom-detect before localechooser09:30
Kamiondid you boot with ks=anything?09:30
Kamionfuck, I screwed up kickseed then09:31
lamont_rKamion: OK to change the name of the livecd rootfs image?09:31
mdzlive CD seems to work fine09:31
Kamionwill fix09:31
mdzjust looks weird, in this case09:31
lamont_radding {ubuntu,kubuntu} in there somewhere09:31
Kamionmdz: you're seeing the cleverness that kickseed does to get certain kinds of things done early; it's just being a little overenthusiastic :)09:32
Kamiondamnit, I'll need a new d-i byhand09:32
Kamionthom: you up for that?09:32
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thomKamion: i can see shadow adding the admin group to sudoers, but i can't see where the default sudoers is created09:32
thomKamion: timescale? (yes, but i now really need foor)09:33
mdzisn't the default sudoers created by sudo?09:33
Kamionthom: ... oh, actually it must just use the default file created by the sudo package, sorry09:33
Kamionthom: about +1.5 hours09:33
thomKamion: ok, cool09:33
Treenaksdid gaim/gnutls switch to a new entropy source?09:33
=== thom beats kamion gently
thommdz: it didn't used to be; guess it is now09:33
Kamionyes, that was one of the things that (intentionally) changed when we switched to the default admin group thing09:34
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=== Kamion confirms that his kickseed fix works
ograsince when has ping the -a option09:37
zulogra: cool...now i can annoy people at work :)09:38
tsengthat must be an "accessibility" feature09:38
ograbut you never have to look at your display to know your server is running g*09:38
thomogra: port it to alsa!09:38
ograthom: ok, hoary+109:39
thomaping would be l33709:39
thomand get a recording of jdub shouting "bong" for the sample09:39
Treenakswe need that for traceroute as well!09:40
zulKamion: im just catching up did -25 go on today's cd?09:40
Kamionzul: yes09:40
Kamionon 20050302.109:40
zulok thanks09:40
thullyso - what's the status of array 6 - is there any blockers?09:40
KamionI knew you were going to ask that09:41
Kamionyes, I'm just releasing kickseed 0.13 to fix one blocked09:41
Kamionand then I am working on it solidly and won't go to sleep until it's out, so please don't repeatedly ask about it09:41
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thullyOK - I just was curious - I didn't think I had asked that many times - just once yesterday and once the day before09:43
Kamionyes, but you always ask while I'm in the middle of preparing a release, before it's even late09:44
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Kamionand it does have a certain "are we nearly there yet" feel about it :)09:44
tseng /topic ARE WE THERE YET?09:45
Kamionplease feel free to ask if the release is late, but before then it's best to assume that we (particularly I) are working on it fairly solidly09:45
thullyOK - sorry I asked at all the wrong times...09:46
Kamionmdz gets to ask me, but he's my boss ;)09:46
mdzthully: when it is released, it will be announced on the mailing lists and on IRC as usual09:46
Kamion(and sabdfl, fairly obviously ...)09:46
mdzso in general, all you need to do is wait09:47
Kamionwe're down to pretty solid release times for Array milestones now, unlike the early days of Hoary where I do concede that they were frequently much delayed09:47
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Kamionbut as the final release approaches we have a much better chance of being able to get them out on time09:48
thullyOK - sorry for barging in..09:49
Kamionnp :)09:49
KamionT-Bone: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-March/024574.html <-- told you so ;-)09:50
thullyI'm just anxious for a new array release to test some things that may be specific to new installs... i could grab a daily, but I'm on a semi-slow connection and I've had problems getting dailies installed in the past09:50
T-BoneKamion: blame it on jbailey ;)09:51
Kamionrightly so, the current daily's second stage breaks09:51
Kamionjbailey: ^-09:51
Kamionjbailey: (the same complaint was raised in Debian when they turned the hard disk LED on for powerpc, and it was quickly turned off again)09:52
=== T-Bone has no clue what it does
=== T-Bone doesn't have a laptop
jbaileyKamion: Ah weird.  I had a guy here complaining that it went away when it used to do it.09:52
thullyI wonder, is there a chance that comeone else could test a Hoary install without any networking before release - I do all my installs without networking installed and this tends to present some unique issues for me09:52
jbaileyKamion: Apparently otherwise there's no hdd light at all on those beasts.09:52
KamionI'll try to do so09:52
Kamionjbailey: yes, but I have such a beast; the hdd light is pretty annoying :)09:53
Kamionif we turn it on it would be nice to expose a sysctl to turn it off again09:53
thullyno networking - meaning I don't use ethernet and intermittently use wi-fi, and use a modem-like device for all my net traffic09:53
jbaileyI'll lart James Morrison on behalf of all of you, then. =)09:53
KamionI have some difficulty constructing a machine with no network devices at all, but I may be able to do so; I can certainly disconnect wireless09:54
Kamionbut I cannot promise changes before array 6 now, only before the preview09:54
sivangGood night all09:54
thullyOK - I install w/no ethernet or wi-fi installed, and I can get through the install, but I've had a few quirks...09:55
Kamionsince the network configurator's in the d-i initrd which has an extra build delay and a human interaction component at the archive end09:55
=== Kamion sighs and works around the kickseed bug again
thullylike a network icon in the system tray for the loopback interface, and a network configurator in d-i that isn't exactly friendly to a non-networked setup09:56
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=== Kamion tests with the wireless card pulled out
Kamionwait for DHCP -> DHCP error -> "Do not configure the network at this time" -> select hostname09:58
Kamionwhich is probably fair enough for a device with disconnected ethernet09:59
Kamionlet's try removing the ethernet kernel module09:59
thullyI'm mostly talking with no ethernet or wireless networks available - on my laptop I have an ethernet and wireless card, but often install with neither ethernet or wireless available09:59
Kamionyes I know09:59
thullythe cards are available, but not the networks09:59
Kamionif the card's plugged in then you get the sequence I just described09:59
thullyIt may be a good idea at some point (not array 6 and maybe not even the preview) to clean up the d-i network configuration to be easier for non-network users10:00
KamionI don't honestly think the sequence I described is that bad10:00
thullyFor example, if I pick wireless on that screen (since I want wi-fi to be configured for later use) i'm stuck in an infinite loop10:01
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Kamionthat certainly sounds like a bug, will see if I can reproduce10:01
thullyand the only way to get out is backing out to the installer menu and manually skipping steps, which doesn't configure the loopback interface (already reported as a bug)10:01
KamionI thought I fixed that one recently though10:02
Kamionthe wireless loop10:02
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thullyWell, my experience is if you pick wireless, it will scan for networks, and prompt you for essid if it doesn't find one.  If you don't specify an essid, it will repeat the process.  Hence, there is no way to configure the wi-fi for later use10:03
Kamionyes that's the bug I thought I'd fixed10:03
Kamionno network interfaces at all -> red screen telling me that -> hit Continue -> select hostname -> install continues10:04
thullywhat is the new behavior at this stage of an install-to-HD (not a live CD, that works differently)10:04
thullyif you pick wireless w/no WAPs available10:04
Kamionone moment, I have to engineer such a setup, which will doubtless annoy my housemates10:05
Loevborgdifferent problem here, when i installed I didn't get an opportunity to _not_ configure my networking.10:05
KamionLoevborg: good10:05
Kamionthat's a feature, not a bug :)10:05
LoevborgKamion, but with wireless, it keeps asking me questions about it.10:06
thullyAlso, it may be a good idea to add a "No network" option to the menu which gives you a choice of network cards to configure10:06
KamionLoevborg: see what I just said to thully!10:06
LoevborgKamion, sure.10:06
Loevborgstill, being able to skip the dhcp run would be an improvement imho.10:06
KamionLoevborg: doubt that'll happen, sorry10:07
LoevborgI'm sure this has been discusses a lot though :)10:07
Kamionthully: there are already several options on the netcfg "stuff went wrong" menu, one of which I'm sure did that10:07
KamionLoevborg: yes, we have a hard requirement not to add more questions to the install10:07
Kamionso "try DHCP, if it fails then go away" is about the best we can do given that many network cards don't support ethtool/MII properly or lie in the results10:09
thullywell, I'm just saying - if a dial-up user (yes, they still exist) wants to install Ubuntu, it should be easy to just pick "No network" right when they're prompted to configure network cards and skip over the whole process (just list it in addition to the available network cards)10:09
Loevborgbut when it asks me which interface to configure, it could just aswell admit "none" as a third option.10:09
KamionLoevborg: that's only useful if you have >1 interface though, with 1 interface we want it to just try10:09
Kamionthully: hm, ok, that wireless loop bug is still there, evidently I only fixed the live CD case10:10
Kamionsorry about that, I thought I'd got both10:10
LoevborgKamion, and when it asks me for an ESSID, there could also be an option to skip it. but don't think I'm complaining, only suggesting.10:11
KamionLoevborg: see the last two lines. :-)10:11
KamionI'm having two independent conversations about the exact same thing with two people here, it's very confusing10:11
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Loevborgto add some spice, /etc/init.d/networking sometimes takes ages to configure wireless, and then - sometimes - when I ctrl-c it, Xorg doesn't start (no loopback device).10:13
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Loevborgbut I see that this is not #ubuntu-bugs :)10:13
thullySo, should I report any new bugs on bugzilla about this?10:14
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Kamionthully: sure, it's much better that than to report them *just* before a release which is the exact time when I have no hope of fixing them before the next milestone release :)10:15
Kamionstuff in bugzilla about d-i will be assigned to me (either automatically or, probably, manually)10:15
Kamionand I will try to do what I can about no-network configuration10:16
sabdflKamion: should the new cdrom/sata stuff mean that it should work on a normal installed desktop too?10:16
Kamionsabdfl: given unified hardware detection, I'd hope so, but I'm not certain10:17
sabdflKamion: doesn't seem to be10:17
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Kamionsabdfl: jbailey would probably be the best one to debug with ...10:17
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Kamionthully: oh, I think I see why the repeated wireless ESSID question bug happens10:18
Kamionfixing it properly is a string change, though, hmm10:18
abellisivang: ping10:18
jbaileysabdfl: Did the fix not do it for you?10:19
Loevborgmuch appreciated. btw always implicitly read "kudos for your excellent work".10:19
sabdfljbailey: am on 2.6.10-25, and no, i don't see the cdrom10:20
sabdflnot as /dev/hd* anyhow10:20
jbaileysabdfl: Do you have /dev/sr0 ?10:20
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thullyBug #7098 is now in the database, with info on the wi-fi/ESSID issue10:28
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sabdfljbailey: yes10:31
jbaileysabdfl: It's showing up as a SCSI cdrom then.  I see that on my SATA system, too.10:31
sabdflso that should work?10:32
mdzshould be /dev/scd*10:32
Kamionthully: right, replied10:32
jbaileysabdfl: It seems like the unified drivers just do the whole thing as SCSI now, even the PATA drives.10:32
jbaileymdz: I had /dev/scd0 too.10:32
sabdfli see /dev/scd0 too10:32
mdzwell yay10:33
jbaileysabdfl: If you could test that it actually reads, that would be lovely.  My SATA system is in a data centre, 3 times zones from here. 10:33
thullyKamion: should I file a lower-priority bug requesting a "None" option on the screen prompting for a network card to configure?10:33
Kamionthully: sure10:33
Kamionthully: I doubt it will happen for systems with one interface, but it could happen for systems with more than one10:34
thullywell, systems w/one interface will automatically try that and prompt if it can't find a network to connect to, so it isn't necessary10:34
Kamionthe same argument applies to systems with one interface10:35
Kamionit's just that changing it for systems with one interface would involve an extra question that previously wasn't asked10:35
Kamionjbailey: all-IDE systems are still /dev/hdc or whatever, at least10:37
jbaileyKamion: Yes.  It's only where the sata driver is providing the pata interface too.10:38
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thullyOK - this "none" option issue is bug #710110:41
thullyAlso, you were saying a red screen appeared when there is no network - shouldn't this just be a normal screen, since systems with no network isn't necessarily an error...10:42
Kamionperhaps, yes10:42
Kamiongo ahead and file about that too, component netcfg10:44
thullyOne last issue with non-networked setups - After install, there is always a network status icon for loopback in the system tray - any way this can be taken care of?10:45
thomthully: that'll go away in hoary+110:46
Kamiondidn't you say that was because you went back rather than continuing?10:46
Kamiondue to the loop10:46
zuljbailey, whats up with the sata stuff?10:46
jbaileyzul: Nothing, works exactly as predicted.10:46
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Kamionhm, I should make my ubuntu-build-di script connect to the buildds in parallel rather than serially10:48
Loevborgmjg59, I just tried your ad-hoc patch, it doesn't change a thing AFAICT.10:49
mdzKamion: what would be involved in arranging for English to be supported in addition to the language selected in the installer, per default (as far as language-{pack,support}-en)?10:50
Kamionmdz: trivial change to base-config/lib/menu/pkgsel10:50
mdzKamion: blitted you my script for same10:50
Kamion(to always add en to get_language_packs output10:50
mdzKamion: can you remember to do that after array 6 (or before, if you prefer), or should I file a bug?10:51
Kamionmdz: probably best to file a bug on base-config for me, but I'll try to do it tomorrow10:51
seb128jdub: naten doing some rocking work on smb://, he has just fixed smb to browser and use winXP shares correctly (anonymous without asking for a password and privates working great)10:53
thullyas far as the network interface icons, I'd just say revert this to the Warty behavior (don't have status icons by default except for wi-fi signal) but that's just my opinion10:53
Kamion"revert to Warty" is usually a much harder thing to do than it sounds10:54
Kamionmany other things will have changed in the same component10:54
jdubseb128: yeah, that's way cool10:54
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jbaileyseb128: krb support yet? =)10:55
=== jbailey hides.
seb128jdub: nautilus working fine on a winXP network is nice :)10:55
seb128jbailey: that's supposed to work for a while, alex has worked on this for redhat10:55
seb128jbailey: no ?10:55
seb128hum, perhaps some patches are needed for that10:56
jbaileyseb128: Ah, okay.  It always prompted me for a password while I was still at FundSERV.  10:56
jbaileyseb128: I didn't know it was in yet.  It could've been anything including heimdal/mit mismatch.10:56
Kamionmdz: oh, to be able to override it with preseeding I guess I want to change it in localechooser instead10:56
Kamionanyway, I'll look at it10:56
seb128jbailey: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/nautilus-list/2004-July/msg00154.html10:57
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thomthat's awesome11:00
thommy screen is now full of firefox windows11:00
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hervein a setup.py install script of a Python package11:01
hervedoes any distutils guru can confirm me the "data_files" argument in setup() lists the location of source files and not destination files?11:01
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thom*sigh* at xscreensaver "censorship"11:06
sabdflsuck it in11:06
thomsabdfl: this is all your fault ;-)11:06
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thomseb128:  8318 thom      15   0  152m  22m  12m S 98.2  2.3   9:25.06 nautilus11:09
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sabdflthom: punishment from the sacred cows11:11
thomthe cows should love me; i stopped them bouncing11:12
thommaybe the campaign for freely bouncing cows is DoSing me11:12
mpt_newjersey"We are free-bouncing bovines. We bounce free ... today."11:12
zulack...we already discussed cows in #-kernel11:13
thully_hi - has there been any progress on getting icons to appear on the desktop for CD-ROMs, USB keys, etc etc?  This stop working for me some time back in hoary11:15
seb128thom: bah11:18
seb128thom: 16596 seb128    16   0 17068  14m 1776 S 22.5  1.4  33:52.68 polypaudio11:18
seb128in the same style :p11:18
thomseb128: i'm taking no blame for polypaudio :-)11:19
seb12815925 seb128    15   0 43908  23m  11m S  0.0  2.3   0:01.91 nautilus11:19
seb128for nautilus here11:19
thomyeah, it just screamed up when i deleted an svg file11:19
thoms/deleted/dragged to wastebasket/11:19
Kamionthom: there should be four d-i byhands on jackass; could you process them, or shout if there aren't amd64/i386/ia64/powerpc all there?11:19
seb128what version are you running ? for how long ? do you have a way to get eating like that ?11:19
Kamionwith recent timestamps11:19
seb128thom: oh, interesting, is that reproducible ?11:20
thomseb128: current; dunno; will try11:20
thomKamion: k11:20
Kamioninstead of bouncing cow, I propose that we play "Cows With Guns" at login time11:23
thomok; elmo's "only try if super necessary" comment doesn't fill me with joy, but lets see11:23
Kamionin pursuit of bovine liberation11:23
thomKamion: gotta be better than those damn bongoes11:23
herveKamion, what about pacifists cows? ;-)11:24
Kamion"we will fight for bovine freedom and hold our large heads high; we will run free with the buffalo or die ... cows with guns"11:24
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aboecan somebody help me with my linux partitioning11:28
aboewant to merge to partitions11:29
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thomKamion: should be done11:37
Kamionthom: awesome, thanks11:37
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lamont_rKamion: user trying to install got an error about not finding a kernel on his x86 box...  with a recent daily, i believe11:44
Kamionlamont_r: would need to see logs11:44
MithrandirKamion: in PC World Norway Express (which is a biweekly thingy), our installer is described as "quick and boring".  I think that's a good thing. :)11:44
lamont_rah, I have proc/cpuinfo - will get the rest for you11:44
KamionMithrandir: excellent. :)11:44
mdzKamion: let me know when I should test a new set of images11:45
Kamionlamont_r: could just be a bad burn11:45
Kamionmdz: waiting for next cron.daily to kick them off11:45
HcEMithrandir: why should an installer be "fun" ?11:45
Mithrandirthey complain about that they couldn't find any graphical way to download updates, so probably haven't found synaptic.11:45
HcEmaybe implement tetris support ;)11:45
MithrandirHcE: as I said, I think it's a good thing that it's boring.  Not interesting or anything. :)11:46
mdzKamion: are we finished with package uploads for array 6 (assuming no new problems are discovered)?  do we need to build a new cloop image to get in sync?11:46
HcEplain, straith forware is excellent11:46
lamont_rKamion: requested, we'll see how quick a turn around we get...11:46
HcEallways liked the debian/ubuntu approach11:46
MithrandirHcE: written by Mohammed, former barbara.no guy.11:46
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HcEMithrandir: heh, I have shown him both apt-get, aptitude and synaptics...11:47
Mithrandirsynaptic. :)11:47
Mithrandirnot synaptics.11:47
HcEI don't use that tool11:47
Mithrandirme neither.11:47
seb128lamont_r: howl/build sorted ?11:48
thomsynaptics is something utterly different :-)11:48
Mithrandirmvo: I like text-based tools.  X is a nice tool for multiplexing terminal windows. ;)11:48
Kamionlamont_r: requested of whom?11:48
Kamionmdz: yeah, I think so; please do11:48
mvoMithrandir: yeah, I know :)11:48
KamionMithrandir: or the update manager11:48
jbaileyKamion: So that I know, what's the matching rootskel update that was needed to go along with #1440, the SATA fix?11:49
HcEhehe, you got credits in the article Mithrandir :DD11:49
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Kamionjbailey: src/lib/debian-installer-startup.d/S03hotplug runs init scripts11:49
Kamionrc scripts, rather11:49
Kamionhmm, I suppose I should update ddetect as well ...11:49
KamionI'll do that after array 611:49
mdzKamion: are there good reasons why it can't use init.d/hotplug?11:49
Kamionmdz: I do not particularly want to delegate critical parts of d-i startup to other packages, particularly not when merging this back to Debian11:50
Kamionusing init scripts from the real system has been a good way to break things in the past11:50
MithrandirKamion: was the update manager in warty?11:50
mdzdue to busybox?11:50
Kamionand the change I made is much simpler11:50
mdzMithrandir: no11:50
MithrandirHcE: I know :)11:50
Kamionmdz: due to crap like LSB init scripts :(11:50
Kamionbut busybox also11:50
KamionI really think it's much clearer what's going on the way it is11:51
jbaileyKamion: What's the best way for me to make sure that anything I fiddle with in hotplug gets into d-i?  I've got mdz's sg patch done here and tested, so it's ready to go in.11:51
HcEMithrandir: all my support over MSN are not mentioned :P11:51
Kamionjbailey: d-i uses everything else in hotplug as normal, it's just rc script ordering11:51
mdza <1k /lib/lsb/init-functions would solve that problem once and for all, but I'll take your word that overall it's not the right thing11:51
Kamionmdz: I do have such an init-functions, it's an ugly hack IMHO and I wish it could go away11:51
jbaileyKamion: 'k11:52
KamionI've been meaning to fix pcmcia-cs for a while ...11:52
mdzjbailey: you're not planning to upload it until after array 6, though, right?11:52
=== jbailey hands a large flamethrower to kamion to help with the pcmcia-cs fixing.
mdzis there anyone who is working on moving pcmcia to hotplug so that pcmcia-cs can go away?11:53
jbaileymdz: I was planning on checking with you in a moment now that it's ready to make sure I wouldn't run over array 6 in any way.11:53
Kamionjbailey: BTW, have a look at the way I did the init script ordering in rootskel; I think it's much simpler and I'm not sure how the very complex version in hotplug is better?11:53
mdzseb128: gah, I thought you were finished11:53
MithrandirHcE: *chuckle* :)11:53
mdzwe need to stop uploading at some point here so that we can build consistent CD images11:53
seb128mdz: the gnome-vfs2 upload interfers with the array 6 build ?11:54
mdzseb128: it goes on the CDs, yes11:54
mdzour goal is to have the same versions on the live CD and the install CD11:54
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mvohi doko 11:54
seb128mdz: sorry for that, just pushing a samba fix for nautilus, trying to get smb:// working fine for 2.1011:54
jbaileyKamion: What's the best way to pull the source for rootskel?  I usually use my Debian d-i checkouts for looking at that code.11:55
jdubmdz: do we have any download stats?11:55
Kamionjbailey: no revision control yet, just 'apt-get source rootskel' with Ubuntu deb-src lines, sorry11:55
mdzjdub: for what?11:55
jdubmdz: warty11:56
mdzjdub: yes11:56
thomKamion: is it too early to ask whether i cocked up those by hands? (/me is panicing about them somewhat)11:56
jdubdo i have to go through elmo?11:56
Kamionlamont_r: "requested of whom" -> oh, sorry, I got confused by interleaving conversations11:56
mdzjdub: depending on what you want, yes11:56
Kamionthom: can't quite tell yet :( I assume you unpacked them into dists/hoary/main/daily-installer-*/ and updated the current symlinks?11:57
dokomvo: hi, still awake?11:57
jdubmdz: hrm, just want some user-understandable figure11:57
thomKamion: yeah11:57
Kamionthom: if you can push a cron.daily then I can check, but never mind if you can't11:57
mdzjdub: if you want "how many warty CDs did people download from us", we don't have that11:57
jdubwhat do we have?11:58
mvodoko: barely :)11:58
mdzaccess logs starting at some point after the release, I think.  ftp logs starting at an unknown time.  no bittorrent records since the last restart11:58
jdubnothing digestable to hand?11:59
zulmdz: davej wrote a document for suggestions for troubleshoting hardware http://people.redhat.com/davej/hardware-problems.txt when you got a sec can you have a look before i add it to the wiki11:59
jbaileyKamion: My version evolved out of me starting with tsort and slowly eliminating tools that I realised I didn't have until I was basically in shell.11:59
jbaileyKamion: This is far simpler. =)11:59
mdzKamion: I guess I'm willing to let go of the ideal of having consistent live vs. install in the name of not waiting another hour; let's just use the cloop build which is in progress11:59
mdznext time, we'll harness elmo and lock down uploads12:00

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