[12:01] <lunitik> jdub: voicing how strongly I dislike it... I would need to go back a few levels of meta-packages to get rid of it and eog... which makes managing packages that much harder  :(
[12:02] <jdub> lunitik: you don't need to make your point over and over, and with unnecessary hyperbole.
[12:02] <lunitik> (which goes back to a previous issue, having some flexability in the ubuntu-desktop depends... 
[12:02] <Mithrandir> lunitik: you could just divert it and make the xpdf binary a symlink to gpdf; ditto for eog.
[12:02] <Mithrandir> it's not like it's hard.
[12:03] <lunitik> Mithrandir: if I did it myself, I garentee I'd forget for one upgrade, and have to fix it...
[12:04] <Mithrandir> lunitik: which is why you divert it.  dpkg remembers for you
[12:04] <Mithrandir> man dpkg-divert
[12:05] <lunitik> Mithrandir: hmm, thanks
[12:08] <lunitik> Mithrandir: ahh... I don't understand... --package seems to be what I want... but how would I say "install gpdf and ignore xpdf* and eog"
[12:11] <Mithrandir> lunitik: cd /usr/bin/ ; dpkg-divert --local /usr/bin/gpdf && ln -s gpdf xpdf ; apt-get install gpdf ought to work.
[12:14] <lifeless> signed aot repositories - what files do I need to sign ?
[12:16] <mvo> lifeless: the Release file will do
[12:17] <lifeless> mvo: clear signed ?
[12:19] <mvo> lifeless: detached and armored as Release.gpg
[12:20] <jdub> argh
[12:20] <jdub> the gaim guys still haven't fixed the 'disconnected from notification area kills me' bug
[12:21] <Mithrandir> sure it's not fixed in 1.1.4 either?
[12:21] <jdub> running 1.1.4 now
[12:21] <Mithrandir> ok
[12:21] <jdub> oh, hold on
[12:21] <jdub> :-)
[12:22] <jdub> i must've been running the earlier version before ;)
[12:22] <jdub> yaaaay!
[12:23] <Mithrandir> is 1.1.4 in hoary now?
[12:23] <jdub> yeash
[12:23] <dredg> yes. gaim-encryption was rebuilt to play nice with it a couple of days ago
[12:24] <sivang> somehting strange
[12:24] <sivang> just upgraded
[12:24] <sivang> desktop as a whole suddenly got a lot less responsive
[12:24] <sivang> hrm
[12:26] <sivang> even switching windows in irssi is _slow_
[12:26] <sivang> (and I am using irssi locally, not through screen)
[12:27] <mvo> sivang: have had very slow redrawing as well some days ago. killing metacity helped me
[12:27] <ogra> mvo: night
[12:28] <mvo> night ogra 
[12:28] <dholbach> night everyone, i'm off as well
[12:29] <ogra> me too
[12:29] <ogra> night
[12:29] <dholbach> *wave*
[12:29] <zul> everybody is dropping like flies
[12:32] <sivang> hmm, still the same
[12:32] <sivang> :-/
[12:32] <marcin_ant> hi - could someone help me with ppp connection?
[12:33] <marcin_ant> my problem is related with this bug http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=%23127786
[12:33] <lunitik> Mithrandir: ahh... sorry, had to handle something... but its not letting me remove xpdf without removing ubuntu-desktop still... any idea why?
[12:33] <marcin_ant> and there is a kind of solution but I don't know how to use this solution... 
[12:43] <sivang> seb128: do you know anything about redraw slowness problem?
[12:43] <seb128> ?
[12:43] <seb128> context ?
[12:43] <seb128> what app ?
[12:43] <sivang> seb128: all of the desktop
[12:43] <seb128> nop
[12:44] <T-Bone> sivang: that's called 'low mem'
[12:44] <T-Bone> ;)
[12:44] <sivang> T-Bone: ha! I'm hurt :) I have .5Gig here :)
[12:44] <T-Bone> aka "swapping like hell"
[12:44] <T-Bone> heh
[12:44] <T-Bone> not enough :)
[12:44] <sivang> T-Bone: I know you told me already, but I cannot afford more then that at the moment
[12:45] <sivang> T-Bone: my nvidia card fan may be failing or either my swap partitoin has gone bonkers as it did on the lappie
[12:45] <T-Bone> (actually it's a shame that 512M isn't enough, I have machines running other OSes with 24M of RAM :P)
[12:55] <lamont> Kamion: ??
[12:57] <T-Bone> elmo: around?
[12:57] <T-Bone> lamont: seen #u-kernel?
[01:01] <jdub> seb128: go go go! :)
[01:02] <seb128> ;)
[01:05] <sivang> seb128: that's so odd, all of my desktop is like through a vnc console over a modem line since last upgrade. what can I do it track this down? :-)
[01:05] <T-Bone> ok, -25 uploaded, food for the buildds
[01:05] <sivang> seb128: (with regarad to redraw slow performance, that is)
[01:05] <seb128> top
[01:05] <seb128> what's the system load ?
[01:06] <sivang> load average: 0.21, 0.35, 0.24
[01:07] <seb128> not that high
[01:07] <sivang> yeah, I don't get it
[01:07] <seb128> do you have something eating CPU ?
[01:07] <zul> sivang: you are running 2.6.10-3 right?
[01:07] <sivang> zul: now I am , yes :)
[01:07] <sivang> zul: so it's not a kernel problem
[01:07] <zul> still the same problem?
[01:08] <sivang> zul: yep
[01:08] <zul> ok
[01:08] <seb128> nothing in ~/.xsession-errors ?
[01:09] <sivang> seb128: looking
[01:10] <sivang> seb128: protocol-esound.c: read() failed: EOF
[01:11] <seb128> probably not slowing your system
[01:12] <sivang> seb128: probably not
[01:14] <T-Bone> lamont: let's add the hppa ones to that list ;^)
[01:15] <lamont> T-Bone: actually, I already branched most of those. :-)
[01:15] <T-Bone> hehe
[01:15] <lamont> T-Bone: you gonna tell mdz that -25 is uploaded?
[01:15] <T-Bone> i told it to the world a few line above but i guess i can do:
[01:15] <T-Bone> mdz: -25 is uploaded (i'm not receiving any confirmation mail, fwiw) :)
[01:15] <T-Bone> lamont: is that fine? :^)
[01:15] <lamont> anyway, off to hear the cello played by my 12 year-old.
[01:16] <lamont> T-Bone: works here
[01:16] <T-Bone> lamont: off to bed, on my side :)
[01:16] <lamont> elmo is like asleep, yes?
[01:16] <sivang> T-Bone: you mean the slowness problem?
[01:16] <T-Bone> see ya tomorrow for more bugging ;)
[01:17] <T-Bone> gnight all
[01:20] <sivang> seb128: one of the "cpu(s)" (it's an -smp system) goes up to 55% load when switching between windows, normal?
[01:20] <sivang> seb128: s/-smp/HT/
[01:20] <seb128> no
[01:20] <sivang> seb128: hyper threading
[01:20] <seb128> do you use the composite or something ?
[01:20] <sivang> seb128: composite?
[01:21] <seb128> xorg transparency stuff
[01:22] <sivang> seb128: no AFAIK. how can I check if xorg transperancy is on by mistake maybe?
[01:22] <jbailey> Hmm.  This is probably too ugly...  tail -n $(($(wc -l /proc/swaps | awk ' { print $1 } ') - 1)) /proc/swaps | sort -rk3 | head -n 1 | awk ' { print $1 } '
[01:23] <seb128> sivang: search for composite in the config file ? but if you have not changed it there is no reason
[01:24] <sivang> seb128: then I havn't :-/
[01:24] <jbailey> Oh - I don't have those options in busybox sort, do I.
[01:25] <Loevborg> jbailey, and you don't have perl?
[01:25] <schweeb> jbailey: you're doing this for the installer CD?
[01:25] <jbailey> It's for initrd-tools at installation time to set the resume partition for suspend to disk.
[01:25] <schweeb> yea, even perl would be prettier
[01:25] <jbailey> I need to pull out the partition that's the largest.
[01:26] <jbailey> I don't remember if perl is available at that point or not.
[01:27] <jbailey> Nope. No perl udeb.
[01:28] <schweeb> hrm
[01:29] <schweeb> are dist-upgrades from warty going to be supported?
[01:29] <jdub> of course
[01:30] <schweeb> it'd be nice to have that resume partition stuff set on dist-upgrade too
[01:30] <schweeb> rather than just in the udeb on the cd
[01:31] <wasabi> Okay, so I'm looking for somebody from Ubuntu to sign my gpg key, in the Texas area. ;)
[01:31] <jbailey> schweeb: I can't risk changing a config file that might have been unset intentionally.  The resume partition magic is in the new version, though.  You just have to set it by hand in one config file and then update to a newer kernel.
[01:31] <wasabi> There a wiki page for key signing meetings or similar?
[01:31] <schweeb> jbailey: ah
[01:32] <schweeb> gotta mess around w/ suspend on the lappy a bit... had it working a while back in Sid, hasn't worked since
[01:32] <jbailey> schweeb: I've had good luck with recent hoary kernels.
[01:34] <Loevborg> on my box, it doesn't seem to work. where do i look to see what's wrong?
[01:34] <schweeb> jbailey: well, tried it yesterday, but the screen didn't come back on... my guess is it's either DPMS or the Video Post stuff
[01:35] <jbailey> schweeb: See Zack Weinberg's recent message on ubuntu-devel@.  Matt made some suggestions in there that might be worth trying.
[01:36] <schweeb> jbailey: thx
[01:38] <schweeb> hrm
[01:38] <schweeb> wonder if gmane has ubuntu-devel archives
[01:39] <schweeb> oh joy!
[01:40] <tseng> hey dudes
[01:41] <jbailey> No, awk, no head, no sort.
[01:42] <jbailey> Well, crippled sort.
[01:43] <schweeb> jbailey: Zack's Array 5 post?
[01:43] <jbailey> schweeb: Yeah.
[01:43] <jbailey> mjg59: There?
[01:53] <mjg59> jbailey: Yo
[01:55] <mdz> T-None: if you aren't receiving confirmation email, it'll be because the email address you're using isn't on the whitelist
[01:56] <jbailey> mjg59: Do you know off hand if initrd-tools is done installed from a chroot on the new drive, or if it's still in busybox with basically no tools available?
[01:56] <mjg59> jbailey: No idea, I'm afraid
[01:56] <jbailey> mjg59: 'kay.  If it's from busybox, do you think it's safe to just pick the first partition?
[01:56] <mjg59> I'd expect it to be in the chroot, though
[01:56] <sivang> when is preview freeze in effect?
[01:56] <jbailey> mjg59: I had planned to pick the biggest one, but I might not have enough text processing tools to sort that out.
[01:56] <mjg59> It's always safe to choose the first partition, it just won't necessarily work :)
[01:57] <jbailey> mjg59: What happens if the swap partition is inadequate for some reason?  (Full, too small, not initialised, etc..)
[01:57] <sivang> hey tseng 
[01:58] <mjg59> jbailey: The system will bounce
[01:59] <jbailey> mjg59: Bounce like reboot, or bounce like refuse to suspend?
[01:59] <mjg59> Uh. Rather, the suspend call will fail and the machine will run the resume script.
[01:59] <helix> ooh, bouncing systems
[01:59] <mjg59> It won't reboot
[01:59] <jbailey> G'd evening Erinn ;)
[01:59] <helix> hello! :)
[01:59] <jbailey> mjg59: 'kay, so if I get it wrong then I'm not risking crippling the system.  I can cope with that.
[02:01] <sivang> jbailey: from what I saw mjg59's pm stuff is really cool and uncrippeling
[02:01] <tritium> I agree :)
[02:02] <sivang> seb128: it's definitely only to redraw stuff that got b0rked, I can even type into a terminal while it's get redrawn
[02:02] <mjg59> FEEL THE LOVE
[02:02] <jbailey> mjg59: And one last fuzzy-love question.  If someone points it at something that's not a swap partition, it'll puke right? =)
[02:03] <sivang> jbailey: hmm, interesting question
[02:03] <mdz> jbailey: initrd-tools is installed in a chroot
[02:03] <jbailey> mdz: Nice, thanks!
[02:03] <mdz> jbailey: where do we stand on #1080?
[02:04] <mjg59> jbailey: Yeah, it checks for a swap sig first
[02:04] <mjg59> Uh, I think. Let me just make sure of that...
[02:05] <jbailey> mdz: The bugzilla mods aren't finished.  I'm going to hack on them more later today.  I have bug-buddy code to talk to xml-rpc.  reportbug isn't trivial to modify since it has all the debbugs bits hardcoded (severities, etc.) and I'd recommend replacing it with bugzuki which is mostly ready, just needs to be unhardwired from RH's bugzilla.
[02:05] <jbailey> mdz: I wanted to get the SATA bug and the initrd pieces in before tomorrow, though.
[02:06] <jbailey> mdz: bugzuki is more more like bts than reportbug, though.
[02:06] <tritium> It even works for me, and my swap is 498 MB, while my ram iw 512 MB.
[02:07] <mdz> jbailey: I'm much less concerned about reportbug than I am about bug-buddy, to be honest
[02:08] <sivang> mdz : reportbug is text mode the last time I checked, or is it being used as a backend for some more intelligent bug reporting tools?
[02:09] <jbailey> mdz: Yes, textmode.  I'd imagine that most devs are probably just as happy using bugzilla for now.
[02:09] <jbailey> err.
[02:09] <jbailey> sivang: ^^
[02:11] <sivang> jbailey: k, cool.
[02:18] <mjg59> jbailey: Y'know, the worrying thing is that I can't actually find anything that checks whether it's swapspace until after it's written all over the partition...
[02:19] <jbailey> mjg59: But it does it after?  That's comforting.
[02:19] <tritium> mjg59, is there any checking to see if swap size < memory ?
[02:19] <jbailey> mjg59:  We can hack out some of the xscreensaver code to post a big "Game Over" message in the middle of the screen. =)
[02:20] <mjg59> tritium: Yeah
[02:20] <tritium> Okay, thanks.
[02:25] <mdz> jbailey: reportbug doesn't even work unless the (Debian-savvy) admin configures an MTA anyway, and if they do, the reports at least go someplace useful
[02:25] <mdz> whereas the bug-buddy reports basically get queued indefinitely
[02:27] <jbailey> mdz: Hmm, so this code should be ported over to malone eventually anyway.
[02:29] <schweeb> bugger, all I get is blank screen on reboot with suspend
[02:29] <sivang> gas anyone changed dch to use mc's text editor instead of vi ?
[02:29] <sivang> s/gas/has/
[02:30] <sivang> that's rather rude :)
[02:33] <sivang> that's probably specific to the package though..
[02:33] <crimsun> shouldn't be... just export $EDITOR
[02:33] <crimsun> well, set and export it
[02:34] <schweeb> it probably just uses the editor from your alternatives
[02:34] <schweeb> update-alternative --config editor
[02:34] <sivang> schweeb: right. thanks.
[02:35] <schweeb> er update-alternatives
[02:36] <sivang> schweeb: thanks , ny dch is sane again
[02:36] <schweeb> yw
[02:36] <sivang> schweeb: seems the default now is mceditor
[02:36] <tseng> vim++
[02:36] <sivang> tseng: for sure :)
[02:42] <mjg59> Hmm. So, I have code that makes Thinkpads suspend properly and not draw lots of power.
[02:42] <mjg59> It's likely to do bad things to non-Thinkpads.
[02:43] <mjg59> Hoary? Or leave in the wiki and defer?
[02:47] <jbailey> mdz: re: 6898, yes, I think dropping sablevm down to universe makes sense 
[02:49] <mdz> jbailey: db4.2 seems to build-depend on sablevm and libgcj4-dev
[02:49] <Clint> you can switch it to kaffe
[02:50] <mdz> I guess we should stick with it for hoary, and fix this stuff up for +1
[02:50] <Clint> you could also disable the java tests
[02:50] <jbailey> Oh, build-dep.  That's why it didn't show up with apt-cache rdepends.
[02:53] <mdz> daniels: here?
[02:59] <mjg59> daniels: http://joshua.raleigh.nc.us/docs/linux-2.4.10_html/106746.html - CRACK
[03:01] <daniels> mdz: pong
[03:02] <daniels> mjg59: oh man
[03:03] <mjg59> daniels: It's still in the kernel
[03:05] <daniels> mjg59: oh man
[03:06] <mjg59> /usr/src/linux/arch/ppc/boot/lib/vreset.c
[03:08] <mjg59> daniels: On the bright side, it means that we know how to reinit some cards from scratch...
[03:09] <mjg59> Hmm. I'm sure Jon Smirl doesn't want to be poking 0x46e8 in the way he is. Its behaviour seems to vary from card to card.
[03:19] <Riddell> daniels: dbus packages have a duplicate qt header file in both dbus-1-dev and dbus-qt-1-dev, can I commit a fix?
[03:20] <Riddell> debdiff:  http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/dbus-deb.diff
[03:22] <daniels> Riddell: sure -- i thought amu had already fixed that one up
[03:24] <Riddell> daniels: he mentioned it but doesn't seem to have uploaded the fix
[03:28] <jdub> daniels: 0.23.1?
[03:31] <Riddell> hmm, my upload of dbus was rejected, is that because my key doesn't work for packages in main?
[03:33] <mdz> Riddell: yes
[03:35] <daniels> jdub: not sure if it has API changes
[03:35] <Riddell> mdz: it's supposed to, at least the technical board approved me for it, is it elmo I moan to?
[03:35] <mdz> Riddell: well, what did it say in the reject message?
[03:36] <mdz> that your key is no good, or something else?
[03:37] <Riddell> mdz: "not in the Maintainer keyring"
[03:37] <mdz> Riddell: yeah, that'd mean that the keyring hasn't been updated
[03:37] <mdz> (elmo)
[03:38] <Riddell> ok
[03:45] <schweeb> urgh, no suspend for schweeb
[04:04] <sivang> night all!
[05:10] <daniels> guys, could you all please fetch http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/detect-keyboard.sh, and run it?  (needs to be run as root due to debconfage).  please send me a /msg if you use it and let me know whether it's right or wrong.
[05:12] <daniels> (this is going to be the xkb detection stuff for array 6, so as wide testing as it can get is appreciated.)
[05:12] <calc> is it ok to run it under x?
[05:13] <daniels> yeah, it won't touch any running configuration
[05:13] <daniels> the only debconf stuff it needs to do is find out what the d-i keymap is
[05:17] <Burgundavia> hmm
[05:17] <Burgundavia> seems to work correctly here
[05:18] <lunitik> Burgundavia: way to follow instructions  ;)
[05:18] <schweeb> daniels: ah, that perl error must have been something from debconf
[05:18] <Burgundavia> yes, I just read the last para
[05:19] <mdz> daniels: (wrongly) gives me us here, but I don't think I installed this system with the installer
[05:19] <daniels> mdz: ah, ok
[05:19] <mdz> daniels: does the right thing on my laptop, which was installed by the installer
[05:20] <mdz> I'll try on the test boxen as well
[05:20] <Burgundavia> daniels: if it matters, my warty--> upgrade box works correctly too
[05:20] <daniels> cool
[05:20] <jdub> # ./detect-keyboard.sh
[05:20] <jdub> failed to infer keyboard layout from layout/lang '--'
[05:20] <jdub> layout is us
[05:20] <jdub> rules are xorg
[05:20] <jdub> model is pc104
[05:20] <jdub> options are
[05:20] <jdub> 
[05:21] <mdz> daniels: yes, yes and yes
[05:21] <mdz> (i386, powerpc, amd64)
[05:22] <daniels> smurfix: ping
[05:22] <mdz> daniels: you might be able to get a wider variety of layouts in #ubuntu
[05:22] <daniels> mdz: phat
[05:22] <daniels> jdub: don't use sudo su -, you bongmeister
[05:22] <crimsun> daniels: works correctly here.
[05:22] <jdub> :-)
[05:22] <crimsun> (sid->hoary)
[05:22] <calc> btw why isn't LANG getting set when you sudo su -?
[05:22] <mdz> jdub: did you not install using d-i?
[05:23] <mdz> oh, nm
[05:23] <jdub> $ sudo ./detect-keyboard.sh
[05:23] <jdub> layout is us
[05:23] <jdub> rules are xorg
[05:23] <jdub> model is pc104
[05:23] <jdub> options are
[05:23] <jdub> pants
[05:23] <jdub> 
[05:23] <daniels> calc: su - clears the environment
[05:24] <calc> yea it resets it to root's env
[05:24] <calc> or something similar
[05:28] <calc> hmm so sudo su - isn't causing /etc/pam.d/login to be used otherwise pam_env would cause /etc/environment to be loaded
[05:29] <mdz> sudo su - is silly
[05:29] <mdz> sudo -i
[05:29] <calc> does the same thing no LANG
[05:30] <calc> which appears to be due to pam_env not being run?
[05:30] <mdz> yeah, looks that way
[05:30] <mdz> sudo login -f root :-)
[05:31] <calc> heh that works
[05:31] <calc> so why doesn't the other methods of getting a login shell actually cause pam.d/login to run, interesting issue
[05:31] <mdz> I don't think they start a pam session
[05:32] <lunitik> calc: 'sudo su -' results in same as 'su -' ... sudo -i still specifies SUDO_USER and SUDO_UID... 
[05:32] <calc> lunitik: yea
[05:32] <mdz> I wonder why sudo -i doesn't just use login
[05:32] <mdz> that's what it's for
[05:32] <lunitik> Only diff's I see... heh... I just went through comparing...
[05:34] <lunitik> mdz: man sudo -i says it parses shell as specified in /etc/passwd, then /etc/sudoers ... 'login' doesn't ever look at /etc/sudoers... might be related  ;)
[05:38] <mdz> lunitik: for the "sudo -i" case, the shell will always be the same
[05:39] <mdz> not that it's any of sudo's business :-)
[05:39] <lunitik>  -i  The -i (simulate initial login) option runs the shell specified in the passwd(5) entry of the user that the command is being run as.
[05:39] <lunitik> So yes  :P
[05:49] <lamont> hrmpf.
[05:49] <lamont> no elmo, I assume>?
[05:50] <lunitik> Or am I just blind?
[05:51] <lunitik> mdz: *cough*
[05:51] <lunitik> uhh... Keybuk, sorry
[05:51] <lunitik> cept he's not here  :(
[05:53] <daniels> lunitik: it's not actually an error, just a warning
[05:53] <lunitik> daniels: ohhh... could be why there is no option for it...  :P
[05:53] <calc> --force-all is your friend
[05:54] <lunitik> calc: I don't like doing that enless I'm sure  :(
[05:54] <calc> heh, i was joking btw ;)
[05:54] <lunitik> calc: ahh... k  :)   
[05:55] <calc> doing things without understanding why will lead to a broken box
[05:56] <lunitik> 'playing' was definatly the operative word for it  :)
[05:56] <calc> thats a good way to learn how to use dselect :)
[05:57] <lunitik> calc: gah... you know, I still haven't actually installed anything with dselect or aptitude's ncurses interface...
[05:57] <lunitik> *blush*
[05:57] <calc> oh you used tasksel with debian?
[05:58] <calc> or just a huge number of apt-gets?
[05:58] <lunitik> calc: nah... I think the option was "bypass package selection" in b-f, and in d-i 'manually select packages' > q  ;)
[05:58] <lunitik> calc: the latter... meta-packages are my friends  :)
[06:02] <AndyFitz> gah,  gam_server   hates me 
[06:03] <AndyFitz> well i hate gamin
[06:03] <lunitik> AndyFitz: yeah, uhh... its generally a bad idea to IRC as root...
[06:04] <AndyFitz> lunitik,  if this machine gets compromised there is no loss to me or the current network
[06:05] <lunitik> But its a pain in the neck either way  :/
[06:05] <calc> i'm sure some people that would get spam from that box would have something to say to you though ;)
[06:05] <AndyFitz> this is really sudo anyway  i cant login as a normal user without it hanging in 20 seconds
[06:05] <AndyFitz> calc,  postfix, sendmail etc arent on here
[06:05] <AndyFitz> im watching the network monitor either way
[06:07] <daniels> AndyFitz: boot with 'noinotify'
[06:07] <AndyFitz> really ive got to figure out why   .ICEauthority and .Xauthority's perms are always changing   and why i get these atomic: gam_server errors
[06:07] <lamont> AndyFitz: -23 kernel?
[06:08] <daniels> AndyFitz: if you run apps under sudo, root will end up owning ICEauthority and Xauthority
[06:08] <daniels> the answer being don't run X apps directly under sudo
[06:08] <daniels> gksudo if you must
[06:09] <AndyFitz> daniels  okay yeah i can appreciate that,  so that problem is solved.    now why the constant hangs and gam_server errors
[06:10] <daniels> AndyFitz: boot with 'noinotify', or get a newer kernel
[06:10] <AndyFitz> thanks btw daniels.   its logical that thats what is happening.   how do i boot with noinotify ?
[06:11] <daniels> when you boot, press escape for the grub menu as it flies by in the three-second window; press e to edit the first entry, go down to the kernel line, and press e again
[06:11] <daniels> add 'noinotify' to the end of that line, press enter, then hit b
[06:13] <AndyFitz> too easy, thanks.   and what will noinotify do ?
[06:13] <daniels> disable inotify, which is the part of the kernel that lets gamin know when stuff's changed
[06:13] <daniels> that's the crashy bit
[06:14] <AndyFitz> sweet.  okay thanks
[06:14] <daniels> np
[06:15] <lunitik> daniels: what use is gamin if its not realizing things change?  I thought that was the whole point of it?  *blush*
[06:15] <daniels> lunitik: sure, but right now there are kernel bugs that make it unusable because your system just locks up
[06:16] <lunitik> daniels: ohh... yeah, that would be bad
[06:16] <jdub> gamin falls back to dnotify anyway
[06:17] <lamont> hoary will ship with inotify disabled by default
[06:17] <lamont> although we'll try to have it work right when you force it on
[06:17] <tseng> rml says .20 is due out any time now
[06:17] <lamont> once hoary ships, we'll turn it back on if it's semi-sane
[06:17] <tseng> with more fixing
[06:17] <tseng> zul and I are testing a partial fix
[06:18] <jdub> rml is my bitch, btw.
[06:18] <tseng> hm
[06:18] <schweeb> jdub: lol, I'd love to hear his take on that
[06:18] <lamont> jdub: you and mdz duke it out - I'm uncomfortable with enabling it by default given the date on my calendar and the current state of the code
[06:18] <jdub> lamont: does mdz want it on by default?
[06:19] <jdub> schweeb: quoting...
[06:19] <lamont> don't believe so
[06:19] <jdub> You tell me what you want and need and I'll do it--I totally am at your
[06:19] <jdub> mercy, as I infinitely appreciate you guys shipping inotify.
[06:19] <jdub> 
[06:19] <lamont> jdub: I think all 3 of us are in agreement
[06:19] <jdub> lamont: then we're one
[06:19] <tseng> lunitik: ... context clues are cool
[06:19] <lamont> jdub: woot
[06:19] <jdub> lamont: we are the holy trinity of inotify!
[06:19] <schweeb> jdub: hah, awesome
[06:19] <tseng> to quote rml for lunitik .. "Inotify, bitches!"
[06:20] <lamont> jdub: but if you are silly enough to say 'inotify' as a kernel param, we'll try to have it not crash on you.
[06:20] <lunitik> gamin is at .24... inotify is not a package apparently... I tried to check out contect clues  :(
[06:20] <lunitik> context*
[06:20] <schweeb> lunitik: heh, inotify is a kernel patch
[06:21] <jdub> lamont: yep
[06:21] <lamont> jdub: so what time does preview freeze hit?
[06:21] <lunitik> schweeb: sooo not the point  :P
[06:22] <jdub> lamont: "by end of wednesday", even in one of your laggy timezones :)
[06:22] <lamont> heh
[06:22] <schweeb> lunitik: only way to learn is by making mistakes. I'm no genius
[06:22] <jdub> what i really need
[06:22] <lamont> was wondering if tomorrow was still maverik-day, or if I had to behave, was all... :-)
[06:22] <jdub> is NEW queue processing
[06:23] <lamont> jdub: and for that, you need your other bitch
[06:23] <tseng> jdub: dude. elmo said earlier that cleanlooks or whatever wasnt in there
[06:23] <jdub> lamont: my special bitch :)
[06:23] <jdub> tseng: eh?
[06:23] <tseng> jdub: in fact, he said nothing was in there
[06:23] <jdub> and now i say "wtf"!
[06:23] <lamont> jdub: so now he's thpethial?
[06:24] <lunitik> jdub: care to link me to clearlooks .debs... pretty please?  :)
[06:24] <jdub> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/hoary/
[06:24] <jdub> i386 and source
[06:24] <lunitik> jdub: thank you  :)
[06:25] <crimsun> how 'bout dem pants.
[06:25] <tseng> perky pants indeed
[06:26] <lunitik> Uhh... will /usr/lib/mime/debian-view install via the new Add/Remove Packages tool? ...if not, any plans for this?  :P
[06:27] <tseng> lunitik: try it and see.. general queries go to #ubuntu please.
[06:27] <jdub> andrewski: 		5
[06:27] <jdub> meh
[06:27] <lunitik> tseng: ahh... sorry
[06:28] <lamont> hrm.. I seem to be missing jdub's font
[06:28] <tseng> lunitik: other than a bit of random silliness (usually relating to jdub) we reserve this channel for development issues. thanks for understanding
[06:28] <jdub> tseng: *cough*
[06:28] <tseng> heh :)
[06:29] <tseng> i want my jdub|tv
[06:29] <lunitik> tseng: it kind of was a development issue, although perhaps better suited to bugzilla enhancement...
[06:29] <tseng> you didnt even look to see if there was such an issue, actually.
[06:29] <tseng> or at least thats how you came off
[06:30] <schweeb> heh, jdubtv... that blog pic was...frightening
[06:30] <tseng> schweeb: imagine it with silly background music and full motion
[06:30] <tseng> I cant say there's anything quite like it
[06:37] <daniels> mdz: anything else for 6.8.2-2?
[06:37] <daniels> jdub: get an amd64, you fascist
[06:38] <jdub> ah
[06:38] <jdub> sure
[06:38] <jdub> will await the delivery
[06:38] <jdub> thank you for your donation
[06:39] <lamont> jdub: he promised that I was ahead of you on the list..
[06:39] <daniels> jdub: remember to hold your breath
[06:48] <jdub> we made rml sad
[06:49] <AndyFitz> yay ,  daniels:  thankyou so much mate
[06:50] <AndyFitz> I would never have guessed to add noinotify
[06:50] <lamont> jdub??
[06:51] <lamont> inotify disablage?
[06:54] <lamont> -25 kernel source will enter the archive in 7 minutes.
[06:54] <lamont> and then not be there in binary form 12 minutes later when the daily di and livecd builds happen
[06:54] <lamont> oops
[06:57] <tseng> lamont: is that with the inotify spinlock love?
[06:58] <tseng> oh theres the log
[06:58] <lamont> no inotify changes from -24
[06:58] <lamont> and unless there's a RC bug for the preview release, I don't think we'll see another kernel upload until after the preview comes out
[06:58] <jdub> lamont: yeah
[06:59] <whiprush> jdub: is that vte in your repo the one with that performance patch?
[06:59] <jdub> ah
[06:59] <jdub> yeah
[06:59] <jdub> some of them
[06:59] <whiprush> woo.
[06:59] <jdub> not all of the latest
[06:59] <jdub> that'll hopefully be released as 0.11.12
[06:59] <jdub> soonish
[07:08] <lamont> Kamion: somewhere around 0903 you should have the -25 kernel in the archive for i386,ppc,amd64
[07:10] <daniels> Kamion: xorg 6.8.2-2 is on its way
[07:10] <lamont> daniels: oh, good.  I'm not last then. :-)
[07:11] <zenrox> sweet
[07:11] <zenrox> good improvments i hope
[07:13] <mdz> daniels: I don't think so (the keyboard stuff and the duplicate questions were the only things which needed to be addressed for array 6)
[07:13] <daniels> mdz: kay
[07:13] <mdz> jdub: surely there is some way to address the unmounting problems, other than switching to inotify
[07:13] <mdz> because kernel panics are far worse
[07:14] <tseng> mdz: the diff between .18 and .19 is one line, comments out a spinlock operation
[07:15] <tseng> also applied in -mm, it looks like quite possibly the culprit
[07:15] <mdz> tseng: hmmm
[07:15] <tseng> zul was building with the change
[07:15] <mdz> I think we should leave it off by default for array 6
[07:15] <tseng> i havent heard back from him with a .deb yet
[07:16] <tseng> mdz: definately
[07:16] <mdz> unless we can somehow confirm that it fixes all the bugs by morning
[07:16] <tseng> its not in -25 anyway, it will have to wait
[07:16] <mdz> ok
[07:16] <tseng> I'll be sure to test it as soon as I get zuls package
[07:17] <tseng> mdz: 
[07:18] <tseng> http://kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/akpm/patches/2.6/2.6.11-rc5/2.6.11-rc5-mm1/broken-out/inotify-locking-fix.patch
[07:18] <mdz> I think I'll do the same shortly
[07:18] <tseng> has some commentation on the issue
[07:18] <mdz> certainly a bug
[07:18] <mdz> but it doesn't feel like it explains all of the crashes
[07:19] <jdub> mdz: 0.0.25 may work around it
[07:19] <tseng> "bugs on smp and preempt"
[07:20] <jdub> mdz: the problem is dnotify
[07:20] <jdub> (0.0.25 of gamin may work around it successfully)
[07:20] <tseng> thatd be cool. id test your theory but i dont see .25 in the archive yet
[07:21] <tseng> which is odd seeing as it built some hours ago
[07:22] <tseng> if you throw one up in ~/jdub ill try it
[07:22] <tseng> or tommorow.
[07:23] <jdub> tseng: i uploaded it earlier
[07:24] <mdz> tseng: the Packages files, for i386 at least, haven't changed in several hours; I think something might be wrong
[07:24] <tseng> yep =/
[07:52] <YokoZar> Could someone please explain why I need to make a .desktop file if I have a .mime and .menu file in my package?
[07:52] <daniels> because .desktop supersedes .menu
[07:53] <daniels> .menu was only a debian thing; .desktop is common between all distributions and all desktop environments
[07:53] <YokoZar> I suspected it did.  Is there a way to have this done for me automatically, or do I need to do it by hand?
[07:53] <YokoZar> Where do I put the .desktop file to have it installed in the right place?  I'm gonna put this thing upstream too
[07:53] <daniels> you'll need to do it by hand
[07:54] <daniels> under /usr/share/applications I think, but jdub can correct me
[07:54] <YokoZar> Ok.  Would I be breaking any standard by creating a whole new Wine submenu?
[07:54] <YokoZar> We're gonna put the Wine start menu in there.
[07:57] <daniels> er, I think so
[07:57] <daniels> jdub: the top-level menus are defined, yeah?
[07:58] <pitti> Morning
[07:58] <jdub> daniels: hrm?
[07:58] <jdub> oh
[07:58] <jdub> um
[07:59] <jdub> you'd have to ship an xdg menu file or something
[07:59] <jdub> it's kinda hard to get around this for wine
[07:59] <YokoZar> Hmm.  Wine also will create its own .desktop files to point to this as you install windows programs
[08:01] <jdub> yes
[08:01] <jdub> they would use categories to fit in the wine top level menu
[08:01] <jdub> probably best to talk to Mike Hearn about the new xdg spec
[08:01] <jdub> and how to fit wine in
[08:02] <daniels> doesn't mike work for code weavers?  or am I way off the mark there
[08:03] <jdub> he does
[08:08] <YokoZar> Crossover does this already, albeit in its own ways
[08:09] <YokoZar> I should email Mike
[08:13] <daniels> is anyone with an amd64 around?
[08:15] <pitti> Kamion: ping
[08:23] <dholbach> good morning
[08:24] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[08:25] <pitti> mdz: still here?
[08:25] <dholbach> hai pitti
[08:26] <YokoZar> In a .desktop file, is the line Path=%d proper?
[08:26] <YokoZar> or is %d only good for the Exec line?
[08:42] <smurfix> daniels: replied to your email
[08:44] <daniels> smurfix: thanks
[08:51] <daniels> smurfix: cool, thanks.  we don't have any three-letter language codes, only two.
[08:57] <smurfix> daniels: Sure we do. tig_ER, sid_ET, gez_{ER,ET}, byn_ER.
[08:59] <smurfix> daniels: guj => gu, which we have also. Dunno why X uses three-letter codes here.
[09:00] <smurfix> daniels: ben => bn
[09:01] <smurfix> daniels: kan => kn
[09:02] <smurfix> daniels: tel => te
[09:04] <smurfix> daniels: ... and "tml" is actually "tam" => ta, which we have also
[09:05] <smurfix> daniels: That's even more stupid, that should be renamed / aliased in X.
[09:07] <smurfix> daniels: Anyway, that's all it seems.
[09:27] <Brutis> hello
[09:27] <Brutis> ?
[09:27] <Brutis> i need some ubunto install help...
[09:28] <Brutis> has anyone got a sec to help?
[09:28] <Brutis> no guess not
[09:29] <Treenaks> Why does everyone insist on calling it "Ubunto"
[09:35] <lifeless> Treenaks: probably heard it pronounced
[09:35] <HrdwrBoB> well you know
[09:35] <HrdwrBoB> the channel name being 'ubuntu' is pretty obscure
[09:36] <Treenaks> HrdwrBoB: hm, how about #ubunto and #ubunto-devel?
[09:45] <Mithrandir> lunitik: don't remove xpdf, just ignore the package.  Or make a new empty package with the xpdf name.
[09:45] <Mithrandir> daniels: ping?
[10:06] <Kamion> daniels: you still up? that detect-keyboard thing doesn't look quite right ...
[10:06] <pitti> Hi Kamion 
[10:07] <Kamion> daniels: I'd recommend saying:
[10:07] <Kamion>   REALLANG=${LANG%%@*}
[10:07] <Kamion>   REALLANG=${REALLANG%%.*}
[10:07] <Kamion> daniels: instead of @euro and .UTF-8, because euro and UTF-8 are not the only possible suffixes there (notably, .ISO-8859-1 etc.)
[10:07] <Kamion> pitti: morning
[10:08] <pitti> Kamion: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/lptest/  /
[10:08] <pitti> Kamion: ^ only -de language pack for now
[10:08] <daniels> Kamion: ok
[10:08] <daniels> Mithrandir: pong
[10:09] <Mithrandir> daniels: what's the procedure for releasing fd.o software?  I want to roll a new release of pkg-config?
[10:09] <Mithrandir> (like, where do I put the tarball and announce it?)
[10:09] <lunitik> Mithrandir: ahh... alright, thanks  :)
[10:09] <daniels> do you have pkgconfig.fd.o or pkg-config.fd.o?
[10:09] <Mithrandir> daniels: unsure.  pkgconfig, I think.
[10:09] <pitti> Kamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpack-deps.txt shows the new scheme
[10:09] <Kamion> daniels: not fatal for array 6, but if you can get it past preview freeze I think it'd be nice
[10:10] <Mithrandir> it's just the binary which is called pkg-config
[10:10] <Kamion> pitti: ok, thanks
[10:10] <daniels> Mithrandir: just dump it somewhere there (/srv/pkgconfig.freedesktop.org/www)
[10:10] <daniels> Kamion: need to do -2 for a6 anyway
[10:10] <Kamion> daniels: I thought you'd already done -2?
[10:10] <daniels> Kamion: not uploaded
[10:11] <jordi> when is a6 due?
[10:11] <pitti> Kamion: upgrade and installation from scratch work; however, manually upgrading just with dpkg -i is impossible (without --force flags)
[10:11] <Kamion> jordi: today sometime
[10:11] <pitti> Kamion: works fine with apt, though
[10:11] <jordi> I've instructed the Catalan GNOME people to download it to test the stuff.
[10:11] <Mithrandir> daniels: ok, and is there some common way of announcing, or just do it on fm and any other random places?
[10:11] <pitti> Kamion: the only cosmetical flaw is now that an apt-get remove language-pack-foo won't automatically remove the base package
[10:12] <Kamion> upgrading with dpkg -i without the stuff you need to handle pre-depends falls in the "unlucky" category
[10:12] <pitti> Kamion: but I guess there is no solution for that now
[10:12] <Kamion> pitti: that's just the inverse of the problem, though
[10:12] <jordi> Kamion: I guess all the Ubuntu-desktop specific translatable strings are in rosetta?
[10:12] <pitti> Kamion: yes, but better easy install than easy removal, I think
[10:12] <Kamion> geez, why does w3m pop up file-roller (which hangs) rather than automatically gunzipping Packages.gz and displaying it inline?
[10:12] <Kamion> pitti: *nod*
[10:12] <Kamion> jordi: dunno, you'd have to ask the rosetta guys
[10:13] <jordi> k
[10:13] <daniels> Mithrandir: not really, just random places
[10:15] <Mithrandir> daniels: ook
[10:15] <Mithrandir> thanks
[10:31] <Kamion> elmo: any idea when archive.ubuntu.com will start being up-to-date again?
[10:32] <lifeless> mvo: I don't have  Release file at all at the moment, just Packages.gz and Sources.gz
[10:33] <lifeless> mvo: this is for bazaar.canonical.com/packages/debs/
[10:33] <Kamion> lifeless: 'apt-ftparchive release' can fix that
[10:33] <lifeless> Kamion: does it work over sftp ?
[10:34] <Kamion> uh ... it works on a local directory tree
[10:34] <Kamion> why would it work over sftp? apt-ftparchive doesn't in general
[10:34] <lifeless> uh, because at the moment I just use scanpackages on the new debs I've built.
[10:35] <lifeless> I don't use apt-ftparchive at all.
[10:35] <Kamion> so use apt-ftparchive at the same time that you do dpkg-scanpackages
[10:35] <Kamion> or immediately afterwards, rather
[10:35] <lifeless> ok, I'll have a fiddle.
[10:38] <pitti> Kamion: if you are fine with the changes (I am now), I tell elmo about the package name changes (pre-add for NEW)
[10:38] <pitti> Kamion: langpack-o-matic is ready to go and I updated the seeds
[10:39] <pitti> Kamion: so as soon as elmo adds the packages, I can upload the stuff
[10:39] <Kamion> I'm just trying an update
[10:39] <Kamion> s/update/upgrade/
[10:48] <mvo> lifeless: sorry for my slow reply. kamion said it all :)
[10:49] <Kamion> pitti: ok, seems to behave correctly here on various kinds of upgrades, go for it ...
[10:50] <pitti> Kamion: okay, I mailed elmo the necessary changes. As soon as the packages are pre-added, I pull the trigger
[10:53] <doko> hmm, packages are entering the archives by hand approval from today on?
[10:53] <Kamion> doko: probably tomorrow on in practice
[10:56] <Kamion> ok, what's happened to the wiki?
[10:56] <lifeless> ?
[10:57] <Kamion> hm, not getting anything from www.ubuntulinux.org in general
[10:58] <lifeless> cool, fall down go boom.
[11:03] <ari> the ubuntu website is down a lot :/
[11:03] <ari> or various parts of it
[11:03] <doko> kamion: all packages, which add a new binary package from yesterday are built by the buildd's but not yet in the archives
[11:05] <Kamion> doko: 09:31 < Kamion> elmo: any idea when archive.ubuntu.com will start being up-to-date again?
[11:06] <doko> kamion: ok, thanks
[11:18] <sabdfl> elmo: around?
[11:18] <sabdfl> thom: around?
[11:18] <thom> sabdfl: yes
[11:19] <sabdfl> any status on the website?
[11:19] <thom> just about to phone elmo and see if it's supposed to be off
[11:19] <sabdfl> elmo's phone is off
[11:19] <thom> gentoo is down entirely
[11:19] <thom> hrm
[11:20] <Kamion> that's presumably entirely unconnected with the archive mirroring issues ...
[11:20] <thom> Kamion: yes
[11:20] <Kamion> I guess it's release day, according to Debian tradition :)
[11:20] <sladen> jdub: regarding LiveCD/coLinux.  the other thing to investigate come the time is xgl running on WGL which would get hardware-acceleration too
[11:23] <pitti> ogra: ping
[11:23] <sladen> thom: can you get Elmo's landline from Directory Enquires?
[11:24] <thom> sladen: meh; i'll just go to the DC
[11:25] <sabdfl> is elmo not back from vancouver yet?
[11:28] <pitti> sabdfl: argh, elmo is travelling today?
[11:28] <Kamion> that's next weekend not this
[11:28] <pitti> uh, ok. We urgently need him today :-/
[11:28] <seb128> is there a mirror updated ?
[11:28] <sabdfl> hmm... he told me the weekend + one day's leave
[11:29] <Kamion> sabdfl: last I heard, the schedule was 5th+6th March plus travel around that
[11:29] <sabdfl> anybody have a cached copy of StaffCalendar, with his travel plans?
[11:29] <Kamion> that's also what my diary says
[11:30] <Kamion> seb128: I think all the mirrors are backed up to yesterday evening, including archive.u.c
[11:33] <seb128> Kamion: k, thanks
[11:35] <sabdfl> james is en route to heathrow, his flight is at 1:30pm GMT
[11:35] <ogra> pitti, pong
[11:35] <sabdfl> he believes it's a single-machine failure, gentoo
[11:35] <ogra> morning
[11:35] <sabdfl> the machine, not the distro
[11:35] <sabdfl> james is back tuesday
[11:36] <sabdfl> thom should have everything he needs to recover gentoo, but should look out for signs of a crack
[11:36] <pitti> ogra: Hi!
[11:36] <pitti> ogra: I made minor change to your patch
[11:36] <ogra> pitti, ok
[11:36] <pitti> ogra: tokens = g_strsplit (str, ":", 0); -> tokens = g_strsplit (str, ":", 2);
[11:36] <pitti> ogra: otherwise it looks very good
[11:36] <ogra> :)
[11:36] <pitti> ogra: building the package now
[11:36] <ogra> yay
[11:37] <ogra> pitti, i will probably give you a little fix later, that collapses the tree of the bios device by efault in hal-device-manager....
[11:38] <pitti> ogra: hmm, good idea
[11:38] <ogra> pitti, i think this would look a bit better....
[11:38] <pitti> ogra: how much later is "later"?
[11:38] <ogra> pitti, dunno, its not high priority on my list....
[11:39] <pitti> "preview freeze"
[11:39] <ogra> pitti, its a fix :)
[11:39] <pitti> okay :-)
[11:39] <ogra> but only a cosmetic one.....
[11:41] <ogra> hmm, sad..... http://bazaar.canonical.com is down ....
[11:41] <pitti> ogra: 1.1.1 is in hoary, too :-)
[11:42] <ogra> pitti: i know....i'm just replying to a thread in -users about website design...that turned to a thread about versioning systems....and nobody mentioned bazaar....
[11:43] <ogra> so i wanted to point there....
[11:43] <Kamion> thom: if elmo's away, can you act as deputy archive admin?
[11:45] <daniels> GODDAMNIT
[11:45] <daniels> Kamion: finally worked out my last bug and man was it stupid
[11:48] <daniels> (in case anyone's interested: debian-installer/keymap and xserver-xorg/config/inputdevice/keyboard/layout, not xserver-xorg/config/inputdevice/keymboard/keymap)
[11:49] <pitti> hey, linux 2.6.11
[11:51] <Treenaks> pitti: -final?
[11:51] <pitti> yep
[11:52] <Treenaks> *leech*
[11:54] <daniels> Kamion: oh, and fwiw, for your announcementy thingy -- 6.8.2-2 infers the x keymap from the d-i keymap, if that's worth putting in
[11:54] <Kamion> daniels: definitely
[11:54] <Kamion> thanks for that
[11:54] <daniels> and the fact that it's 6.8.2
[11:55] <daniels> np
[11:56] <daniels> i'm going to disappear for a while until the build's finished, but if you need to upload xorg itmt (it *should* be ok), chinstrap:~daniels
[11:57] <Kamion> I'm unsure as to what I can do at the moment release-wise without an archive admin anyway, since I'm going to need a d-i byhand for release
[11:58] <pitti> ogra: uploaded
[11:58] <ogra> YAY !
[11:58] <ogra> :-D
[12:05] <ogra> mjg59: ping
[12:09] <Cym> Hi..
[12:10] <Cym> I would like to report a problem with libapache2-mod-auth-mysql
[12:10] <Cym> I have been going through the source code and comparing it to the previous version
[12:12] <lunitik> Cym: bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[12:12] <Cym> 4.3.8-1 doesnt display the problem but 4.3.9-1 gives me an internal error when I attempt to browse a directory that does not belong to the users group
[12:13] <Cym> well I talked to the main package maintainer for it but he cant seem to reproduce the problem
[12:13] <Kamion> Cym: our resident Apache guru is travelling to/from our datacentre at the moment, so as lunitik says filing a bug is probably the best approach
[12:13] <Cym> and I noticed that ubuntu has repackaged it
[12:13] <Kamion> it's not a repackaging
[12:14] <Kamion> we've modified it to disable apache 1.3 support, since we don't want to support that
[12:14] <Cym> right
[12:14] <Cym> i saw that
[12:14] <Cym> yah and that appears to be the only difference
[12:15] <Kamion> the change in 4.3.9-1 sounds like it might easily affect permissions handling ...
[12:15] <Cym> yes, the change has to do with multiple "require" statements
[12:16] <Cym> with 4.3.8-1, it gives me a 401 which is what i want
[12:16] <Cym> but with 4.3.9-1 it gives me an internal error with a 500
[12:17] <Kamion> sabdfl: do you happen to know if thom can act as deputy archive admin in elmo's absence?
[12:17] <Cym> most of the changes look like simple code cleanups
[12:17] <Kamion> if not, I will have to do some strange workarounds for array 6
[12:19] <Cym> well, thanks guys, ill start with another bug report
[12:19] <Cym> i couldnt get anywhere with debian
[12:20] <Kamion> Cym: (the Debian maintainer is also the upstream maintainer in this case)
[12:20] <mjg59> ogra: Hi
[12:20] <ogra> hi
[12:21] <Cym> Matthew Palmer
[12:21] <ogra> mjg59: i hav hibernate working on my acer 1520 (amd64) recently....
[12:21] <mjg59> ogra: Rock
[12:22] <ogra> mjg59: but if i choose a higher console resolution then 80x24 the console is totally broken after wakeup
[12:22] <ogra> is this related to a missing vbetool in amd64 ? or should i look somewhere else....
[12:24] <mjg59> Using framebuffer or just vgacon?
[12:24] <ogra> hmm, just vga=771 i think thats framebuffer ?
[12:24] <mjg59> Yes
[12:25] <mjg59> vbetool may help, but framebuffers (especially vesafb) don't have decent suspend/resume support yet
[12:25] <dholbach> there's no vbetool on amd64 yet
[12:26] <ogra> ah, ok....so i will live with 80x24 then....at least its great i hav "any" supend now....thanks for the good work :)
[12:29] <mjg59> dholbach: Indeed. I need to port it to x86emu at some stage.
[12:29] <mjg59> I'm not especially looking forward to doing so.
[12:29] <dholbach> mjg59: i can really imagine
[12:30] <mjg59> Actually, I'm tempted to just write an lrmi->x86emu layer
[12:30] <mjg59> Might as well make it generalisable
[12:30] <mjg59> And vm86 is preferable on x86
[12:33] <dholbach> i'll be back later
[12:33] <dholbach> mjg59: good luck with it :-)
[12:34] <daniels> mjg59: word
[12:40] <mjg59> daniels: That radeon stuff seems to work now - we've got Thinkpads suspending without excessive battery use
[12:40] <daniels> mjg59: phat :)
[12:44] <Cym> darn, this bugzilla page has been trying to load for 10 min now
[12:44] <Kamion> it'll be the component selector :(
[12:45] <Cym> yah
[12:46] <Cym> doesnt seem to work :(
[12:47] <Cym> is there a good time to come back and talk with the resident apache guru?
[12:49] <Kamion> Cym: not sure when thom'll be back. if you wait until Canadian daytime, infinity might be around too ...
[12:50] <Cym> sure, its not a problem. I can wait
[12:51] <Cym> I never know what timezone i need to be in :)
[12:52] <Cym> I am getting by with downgrading, but I would just like to straighten this one package out.. its the only one Ive had to hold back for a few months now
[12:52] <Cym> its taunting me
[12:53] <Cym> thanks for your help Kamion
[12:58] <Kamion> Cym: I solve the timezone issue by accepting half-day lags in conversations :)
[12:58] <Cym> hehe yah im used to that :)
[12:59] <Cym> this is just one of those things that would be better worked out over irc I think.. 
[01:02] <thom> meh
[01:02] <thom> Kamion: archive should be syncing now, www.* is back 
[01:03] <Cym> oh hi thom
[01:03] <seb128> thom: you rocl :)
[01:03] <seb128> rock even
[01:03] <thom> Cym: hi; i'm in the datacenter right now, not best time for questions :-)
[01:03] <zul> hey
[01:03] <thom> i'll  be home in an hour or so
[01:03] <Cym> ok
[01:03] <thom> Kamion: (infinity is in .au)
[01:04] <zul> 2.6.11 was tagged in bitkeeper 5 hours a go
[01:04] <Kamion> thom: oh, oops. when did he move?
[01:04] <Kamion> thom: archive> woot
[01:04] <thom> Kamion: a year ago? maybe more
[01:05] <Cym> ill be back in a few hours
[01:05] <sivang> morning all
[01:05] <Kamion> thom: obviously I'm just way behind the times
[01:06] <zul> gotta go to work
[01:06] <daniels> Kamion: yeah, Cambridge can do that to you
[01:06] <Kamion> daniels: when did it become 1700 AD, anyhow?
[01:07] <thom> Kamion: *giggle*
[01:07] <daniels> heh
[01:07] <thom> Kamion: when the sun rose over the edge of the world
[01:08] <daniels> thom: and totally missed England
[01:09] <daniels> thom: lucky you guys are all going to Canberra for a week beforehand -- you'll feel totally at home
[01:09] <daniels> dull, boring, and overcast ;)
[01:09] <Kamion> daniels: dude, England is like the French Riviera compared to Belfast
[01:11] <thom> blah at 2 hours travel for 30 mins in the data center
[01:12] <thom> Kamion: also, if you log into syowa from little you'll need to ensure your host key is up to date
[01:14] <Kamion> thom: done, thanks
[01:15] <daniels> Kamion: fair point
[01:20] <pitti> doko: thanks for fixing curl
[01:28] <ogra> smurfix: ping
[01:32] <sivang> ogra: yo :)
[01:32] <ogra> yo ?
[01:37] <sivang> ogra: like "Hi" :)
[01:38] <sivang> ogra: not Jaw
[01:38] <ogra> yeah, i know ;)
[01:38] <ogra> hi sivang :)
[01:38] <sivang> hi ogra , how have you been?
[01:38] <ogra> fine...
[01:38] <ogra> thanks
[01:38] <sivang> pitti: how can I mount a usb key manually?
[01:39] <pitti> sivang: pmount /dev/sda1
[01:39] <sivang> pitti: ok, I need to check why this is not working automatically on this laptop
[01:39] <pitti> sivang: lshal, killall gnome-volume-manager && gnome-volume-manager
[01:39] <sivang> pitti: /me attempts
[01:41] <tseng> jdub: so, gamin .25 doesnt work around the lock
[01:55] <seb128> lamont: here ?
[01:58] <jdub> elmo: hooray, thank you! :)
[01:59] <seb128> elmo: cool, clearlooks :)
[02:00] <seb128> oups
[02:00] <seb128> s/elmo/jdub/
[02:02] <ogra> yeah....and it 0.3 :)
[02:08] <dholbach> re
[02:08] <pitti> thom: do you think that you will package mozilla 1.7.6 for Hoary?
[02:08] <daniels> uvf!
[02:08] <pitti> thom: because of http://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/mfsa2005-15.html
[02:08] <pitti> thom: (this also needs a Warty update for ffox and moz, happy happy joy joy)
[02:09] <pitti> thom: fortunately, it's a trivial patch
[02:11] <pitti> daniels: security fix!
[02:12] <daniels> oh man
[02:19] <jdub> jdubtv! -> now in DV! -> http://node.waugh.id.au:8800/
[02:19] <jdub> seb128: :-)
[02:19] <jdub> seb128: more to come about that too :-)
[02:19] <da_bon_bon> i want to translate ubuntu to hindi. can i be of any help ?
[02:19] <tseng> good morning jdub lovers
[02:20] <da_bon_bon> anyone from the l10n team here ?
[02:20] <ogra> jdub: do you have david hamilton there (looks like butter on the lens)
[02:21] <seb128> jdub: ah ah :)
[02:21] <mvo> go jdub !
[02:22] <da_bon_bon> i want to help translate ubuntu to hindi. can i be of any help ?
[02:23] <dholbach> rad!
[02:24] <dholbach> jdub: you could give live classes online for new MOTUs for example :-)
[02:24] <Treenaks> Elmo-TV?
[02:25] <daniels> kamion tv!
[02:25] <ogra> yay, colin watson tv
[02:25] <daniels> mdz is already on tv
[02:25] <daniels> tune into mtv
[02:25] <daniels> he goes under the alias 'moby'
[02:25] <dholbach> wonder, if he heard it :-)
[02:25] <ogra> lol
[02:25] <Kamion> I don't really get this <foo>tv thing, watching somebody hack is not that exciting :)
[02:26] <mvo> Kamion: but jdub does not only hack, he also makes funny faces all the time :p
[02:26] <daniels> Kamion: but everyone would totally watch kamion tv
[02:26] <jdub> Kamion: you're totally in demand for MOTU|TV
[02:26] <helix> ah, you guys need to watch mako hack
[02:26] <dholbach> yes! kamion!
[02:27] <ogra> helix: url ? ;)
[02:27] <Treenaks> jdub: we need OgraTV or MithrandirTV really
[02:27] <helix> I don't think I have a url for this
[02:27] <daniels> rhythmbox has locked up again.  this means it's time for bed.
[02:27] <helix> I have only seen it LIVE
[02:27] <ogra> heh
[02:28] <daniels> Kamion: i'm crashing now, and will be unreachable for around the next 24 hours by stupid co-incidences.  if there are any xorg issues i'll need to look at before then, call or sms and i'll see if I can't get myself access
[02:28] <Kamion> daniels: ok, thanks. if I can fix them easily myself, I will; I expect most of today to be waiting for stuff
[02:29] <daniels> Kamion: ok cool, thanks.  cheers :)
[02:33] <Treenaks> wb jdub 
[02:39] <Treenaks> jdub: any idea when you'll be able to put flumotion & friends in Debian (experimental/sid/anything) ?
[02:40] <dholbach> hoary!
[02:40] <jdub> the next package set i upload to hoary, i'll be uploading to debian too
[02:40] <Treenaks> jdub: cool :)
[02:40] <jdub> it's newly split out
[02:40] <Treenaks> dholbach: my server is not running ubuntu (yet?)
[02:41] <dholbach> good excuse to re-install it :-)
[02:41] <Treenaks> dholbach: nah, I'm one of the few people who thinks sarge will eventually release
[02:41] <jdub> i run sarge on my mipsel machine.
[02:41] <jdub> mipsel.ubuntu.com doesn't resolve yet.
[02:41] <jdub> join the dots. ;-)
[02:45] <jon1012> hi :)
[02:46] <Astharot> ciao
[02:46] <pitti> Hi Astharot 
[02:46] <jon1012> hi
[02:46] <Astharot> hi pitti 
[02:47] <seb128> lamont: kick evolution to build please :)
[02:47] <koke> shouldn't gaim build-deps on libhowl-dev?
[02:48] <koke> first, hi all! :D
[02:49] <seb128> no, we are kicking howl out, it's non-free
[02:49] <jbailey> seb128: *lol*, serious?
[02:50] <Keybuk> seb128: it is?  which bit?
[02:50] <Treenaks> seb128: since when?
[02:50] <rburton> Keybuk: howl contains apple APSL2 code
[02:50] <seb128> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=295775
[02:50] <seb128> #295775: Build-depends on libhowl-dev, which will become non-free or removed
[02:50] <seb128> 
[02:51] <seb128> you can read about it here
[02:51] <seb128> BTW I'm away for ~1 hour, bbl :)
[02:53] <koke> seb128: I don't know why, but gaim fails compiling if I don't have libhowl-dev
[02:54] <zul> hey
[02:54] <koke> I mean, apt-get source gaim; cd gaim-*; debuild -b
[02:54] <pitti> sivang: any luck with g-c-m?
[02:55] <Treenaks> koke: maybe it's built with --with-something ?
[02:55] <Treenaks> koke: (where something is howl-related)?
[02:55] <dholbach> Keybuk: that's not nice
[02:55] <rburton> koke: probably one of the other gnome libs .la file still refers to howl
[02:55] <sivang> pitti: do you have any idea why gksudo doesn't know it;s should run with the current user rather then root?
[02:56] <sivang> pitti: maybe it's becasue I am sending it a null env ?
[02:56] <Keybuk> dholbach: he knows I love him, raelly :p
[02:56] <pitti> sivang: hmm, it should get the current user from getuid(), not from env's $LOGIN
[02:56] <koke> hmmm, I see, it crahsed at plugins/gevolution
[02:56] <dholbach> YEAH! P0RN!
[02:56] <pitti> sivang: erm, $USER
[02:57] <zul> tseng: ping i should have it real soon now
[02:57] <pitti> sivang: however, if it doesn't work, just use NULL as environment, this should inherit the env to gksudo
[02:57] <dholbach> jdub: did you know, Keybuk loves you?
[02:57] <tseng> zul: rock
[02:57] <pitti> sivang: I think gksudo cleans its env anyway
[02:57] <tseng> zul: ill be here
[02:57] <thom> mjg59: 7079 is all you :-)
[02:57] <zul> tseng: ok ill be in a meeting at 10 but its building right now
[02:58] <jdub> dholbach: he humps my leg regularly.
[02:58] <pitti> sivang: erm, with an emtpy environment you don't even get $DISPLAY
[02:58] <jdub> dholbach: so i kinda get the message/
[02:58] <pitti> sivang: i. e. gksudo shouldn't even start
[02:58] <dholbach> LOL :-)
[02:58] <ogra> hehe
[02:58] <sivang> pitti: hrm right, NULL means to inherit the caller env
[02:58] <Treenaks> pitti: well, at least you won't have a security hole there 8)
[02:58] <pitti> sivang: does it work?
[02:59] <pitti> Treenaks: class-1 firewall :-) -> pull the A/C plug
[02:59] <Treenaks> pitti: exactly! :)
[02:59] <ogra> pitti: nah, thats to harsh....network plug is sufficient
[02:59] <sivang> pitti: but I tested running gksudo from bash - it works fine, from the g_spawn_sync it asks for the root password. I will see how I can pass it the uid from getuid()
[02:59] <mjg59> thom: Oh, FFS
[03:00] <sivang> pitti: so I assumed this has something to do with an empty env, wrong again I was :-/
[03:00] <Treenaks> sivang: Like Yoda, you sound!
[03:00] <pitti> sivang: you cannot "pass" it a getuid()
[03:04] <sivang> Treenaks: hehe
[03:05] <elmo> Kamion: ubuntu20 went through on this cron.daily
[03:05] <mjg59> thom: hibernate.sh is actually coredumping, which is impressive. I'm not sure if the other errors are related to that or not.
[03:07] <thom> mjg59: that's pretty rad
[03:07] <Treenaks> jdub: Ooohh!
[03:07] <sivang> pitti: hmm
[03:07] <dholbach> yeah :-)
[03:09] <mjg59> thom: It ought to just be a whine, so I'm not sure why it crashes
[03:09] <Treenaks> jdub: you shuold start #jdub-tv, to limit offtopic stuff
[03:10] <jdub> ah, go to #ubuntu-love ;)
[03:10] <mjg59> Hrm. I wonder if swsusp ought to be disabling preemption during resume.
[03:14] <mjg59> thom: I /think/ we might be able to get around this with a preempt_disable()/preempt_enable pair
[03:15] <mjg59> Oh, no, I might have this utterly wrong. Argh.
[03:16] <jdub> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/screenshots/fear-wine.png
[03:16] <jdub> wine is very special
[03:17] <sivang> jdub: this is crossover free wine?
[03:18] <sivang> jdub: cool :)
[03:18] <jdub> just wine
[03:18] <trulux> jdub: heya
[03:18] <jdub> yo yo
[03:18] <Treenaks> jdub: the only question I have is: WHY?
[03:18] <trulux> jdub: :) coulod we talk on a new mailing list creation?
[03:18] <jdub> sure
[03:19] <jdub> Treenaks: default font chosen
[03:19] <trulux> jdub: ok, many thanks in advance, mdz and I have talked about the creation of a list on ubuntu proactive security implementation
[03:20] <trulux> jdub: it means to have both support and development lists
[03:20] <trulux> mdz: there?
[03:25] <Kamion> elmo: rock, thanks
[03:25] <Kamion> bloody hell, my laptop is *still* busy renaming svn tags, I set it going on that before lunch
[03:26] <Kamion> admittedly the full checkout is nearly 1GB
[03:34] <Riddell> elmo: could you add my key to be accepted for uploads to main?
[03:42] <zul> i just found this: http://people.redhat.com/davej/hardware-problems.txt
[03:45] <Kamion> what's he done?
[03:45] <thom> AC Power               : 0
[03:45] <thom> Battery count          : 0
[03:45] <thom> desktop macs apparently run without power :P
[03:45] <Kamion> heh
[03:45] <Kamion> they're just that cool
[03:45] <Treenaks> thom: hey, I want a few of those :)
[03:47] <thom> Treenaks: heh; it neatly balances the heat being spewed from the itanium and alpha next to it
[03:48] <jon1012> hmm... just asking, do you think that it could be possible to add my app to universe ? (appliworks, http://appliworks.jondesign.net )
[03:48] <jon1012> (the 0.4 will be out in just 1 week or something like that)
[03:50] <metalikop> jon1012: it looks possible
[03:51] <jon1012> I'm resolving some little issues, but 98% of the features are done
[03:51] <metalikop> I'll check it out
[03:52] <metalikop> have you already made a .deb?
[03:52] <jon1012> nope
[03:52] <jon1012> never :(
[03:52] <metalikop> no problem
[03:53] <jon1012> I use ubuntu as my daily development environment but I'm coming from fedora...
[03:53] <metalikop> no problem, I'll put one together
[03:54] <jon1012> wow thx :)
[03:54] <metalikop> this seems a lot like f-spot
[03:54] <jon1012> oh, in a lot of ways maybe, but the context is not the same
[03:54] <metalikop> it's good to have a few to choose from
[03:55] <jon1012> where f-spot tend to be big and with a lot of features, appliworks want to be really simple to use
[03:55] <rburton> it's also good to pool the effort to make a better program
[03:55] <jon1012> (90% of the things are done via DND)
[03:55] <metalikop> indeed
[03:55] <jon1012> and it's written in C
[03:55] <jon1012> so it doesn't need all the mono environment
[03:56] <sabdfl> daniels: any idea why installing Xnest doesn't give me the "Login in a New Window" option in the menu?
[03:56] <sabdfl> is there a command line way to fire up gdm in a nested session?
[03:56] <jon1012> gdm-Xnest no ?
[03:57] <rburton> sabdfl: gdm should provide that menu item
[03:57] <jon1012> GdmXnest escuse me
[03:57] <jdub> sabdfl: gdmflexiserver -n
[03:57] <Kamion> thom: on being told about www.u.c being down this morning, my fiancee asked whether it ran Windows ;-)
[03:57] <jdub> sabdfl: the menu should appear, might be a menu update problem
[03:58] <jdub> rburton: TryExec=Xnest
[03:58] <jdub> :-)
[03:58] <rburton> aaaah genius
[03:59] <jdub> so i'm thinking of adding a TryExec=.../samba to the shares-admin thingy
[03:59] <jdub> but it also does nfs
[03:59] <sabdfl> jdub: ok, it appeared after a logout/login
[03:59] <sabdfl> rburton: jon1012: thanks
[03:59] <jdub> sabdfl: killall gnome-panel is a bit easier in future :)
[04:00] <jdub> now that you've re-logged-in, you've probably got a new version of gam_server running, which will help
[04:01] <sabdfl> jdub: am lookin for *minimal* changes to gdm human login
[04:02] <jdub> sabdfl: will most likely just be colour.
[04:02] <sabdfl> q: should we indicate the version of ubuntu on the gdm login?
[04:02] <jdub> sabdfl: the gradient is a problem though
[04:02] <jdub> no
[04:02] <sabdfl> if we are only making tiny tweaks, it's nice to be able to see it
[04:02] <sabdfl> current play is 5.04 // slinky // Wed Mar 02, 3:02 PM
[04:03] <Treenaks> slinky
[04:03] <Treenaks> wasn't that a debian release once?
[04:03] <sabdfl> my laptop
[04:03] <Treenaks> ah ok :)
[04:03] <dredg> nah, that was slink
[04:03] <dredg> close though
[04:03] <Treenaks> dredg: oh yeah
[04:03] <jdub> sabdfl: cliff is pretty clear on the recognition power of the current gdm; so far we're just going to change colour, and do something about the gradient.
[04:03] <sabdfl> ok
[04:04] <sabdfl> something subtle... colours on that one are pretty good
[04:04] <jdub> if we put a version number in, it ought to be "Ubuntu 5.04"
[04:04] <sabdfl> the thing i'd like to have seen there are some of the eye-candy fadeover effects for colour transitions
[04:04] <sabdfl> mousover is a little SUDDEN at the moment
[04:04] <jdub> that requires quite a bit more work
[04:05] <sabdfl> also, the colour transition should affect the icons as well as the text
[04:05] <sabdfl> bendy
[04:05] <jdub> yes
[04:05] <sivang> are we having some problems with the archive?
[04:05] <sivang> it won't let me download a source pkg
[04:05] <jdub> sivang: there were update issues earlier
[04:06] <sivang> jdub: hrm
[04:06] <sivang> jdub: ok
[04:06] <dredg> yeah, the area around 'username' is very obviously not part of the gradient
[04:06] <Kamion> should be fine now though
[04:06] <sivang> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main libgnomecups 0.1.14-0ubuntu2 (dsc)
[04:06] <sivang>   Temporary failure resolving archive.ubuntu.comE
[04:06] <sivang> 0% [Connecting to archive.ubuntu.com] 
[04:07] <Kamion> that's a DNS problem
[04:07] <Kamion> probably at your end ...
[04:08] <thom> Kamion: *grumble* :P
[04:08] <jdub> oh well, at least 2.6.11 didn't come out closer to final release date :)
[04:09] <Kamion> I'm still confused about the way our linux-source-2.6.11.orig.tar.gz isn't
[04:09] <Kamion> next time, I think we should do linux-source-2.6.12~1.orig.tar.gz or whatever
[04:10] <doko> kamion: ~ is already allowed in ubuntu?
[04:11] <Mithrandir> yes
[04:11] <Kamion> doko: depends if we care about upgrades from woody any more; I guess since sarge isn't released, that's still a consideration
[04:11] <Kamion> oh, hang on, linux-source-2.6.11.orig.tar.gz never got uploaded
[04:11] <Kamion> must've just been fabbione talking about that
[04:12] <thom> Kamion: thought it was in universe
[04:12] <pitti> Kamion: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/l/linux-source-2.6.11/linux-source-2.6.11_2.6.11.orig.tar.gz
[04:12] <Mithrandir> Kamion: we do have ~ versions in already
[04:13] <Kamion> pitti: ah yes
[04:13] <pitti> Kamion: probably he wants to maintain the changes to final as a patch, or so
[04:13] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, but IIRC not in anything required for the upgrade?
[04:13] <Kamion> pitti: yes, I think it's better not to take that approach though
[04:14] <pitti> agree :-), it's a bit ugly
[04:14] <Mithrandir> Kamion: well, true
[04:15] <Kamion> although sarge base is now changing little enough that it's probably safe to upgrade via that if you're careful
[04:28] <dholbach>  brb
[04:33] <sivang> seb128: how come there is a libgnomecups package downloaded on it's own in source form, and there is also one the same name in the gnome-cups-manager src pkg? (they have different files)
[04:33] <pitti> sivang: the one in g-c-m is libgnomecups-ui
[04:34] <pitti> sivang: or, rather libgnomecupsui
[04:34] <lamont> good morning
[04:34] <pitti> Hey lamont
[04:34] <lamont> Kamion: ubuntu19 was ftbfs on all but powerpc, fwiw
[04:35] <pitti> lamont: can you please ping me when you have a couple of minutes for discussing something?
[04:35] <sivang> hiya lamont 
[04:35] <Kamion> lamont: yeah, fixed in ubuntu20
[04:36] <lamont> Kamion: woot
[04:36] <sivang> pitti: but the name of the direcotry is identical : gnome-cups-manager-0.28/libgnomecups
[04:36] <seb128> sivang: I don't understand the question
[04:36] <pitti> seb128: nevermind
[04:36] <sivang> seb128: pitti already helps me , thanks :)
[04:36] <seb128> k
[04:36] <seb128> thanks pitti :)
[04:36] <pitti> sivang: yes, but it's just the directory name that is misleading
[04:36] <Kamion> lamont: and byhanded by elmo before he left, and now hopefully just waiting for xorg_6.8.2-2_ia64 ...
[04:36] <pitti> seb128: look in libgnomecups/.libs/
[04:36] <sivang> pitti: should be probably changed
[04:37] <Kamion> seb128: any more desktop stuff to come before array 6?
[04:37] <sivang> pitti: this stuff makes you loose valuable time :)
[04:37] <jdub> Kamion: new ubuntu-artwork coming
[04:37] <lamont> Kamion: don't bother waiting - most of gnome is in eternal dep-wait hell because of gnome
[04:37] <lamont> (ia64)
[04:37] <seb128> Kamion: yep
[04:37] <seb128> Kamion: depending if lamont has kicked stuff than need a kick or not
[04:37] <jdub> seb128: you want a gnome upstream comparison done?
[04:37] <seb128> Kamion: ie: evolution 2.1.6
[04:37] <sivang> pitti: ok, g-c-m has it's own gksudo enabled spawning function, I am going to use it, would you like to review it for security implications?
[04:37] <seb128> jdub: please
[04:38] <lamont>      1350 Log for failed build of bug-buddy_2.9.92-0ubuntu1 (dist=hoary)
[04:38] <lamont>       968 Log for failed build of curl_7.12.3-2ubuntu1 (dist=hoary)
[04:38] <lamont>      1729 Log for failed build of gnome-system-tools_1.1.92-0ubuntu1 (dist=hoary
[04:38] <lamont>       252 Log for failed build of gtk-doc_1.3-0ubuntu1 (dist=hoary)
[04:38] <lamont>      1736 Log for failed build of ximian-connector_2.1.6-0ubuntu1 (dist=hoary)
[04:38] <pitti> sivang: I take a look at it. file and function?
[04:38] <lamont> that's my i386 list
[04:38] <pitti> lamont: curl is already sorted out
[04:38] <lamont> pitti: once I get done with bitching about gnome, I'll ping you
[04:38] <pitti> lamont: thanks to doko
[04:38] <seb128> lamont: quick x-c please
[04:38] <seb128> lamont: bug-buddy has a new version in
[04:38] <sivang> pitti: gnome-cups-manager-0.28/libgnomecups/gnome-cups-permission.c::gnome_cups_spawn
[04:39] <lamont> seb128: x-c says: e2k-autoconfig.c:58:42: libedataserverui/e-passwords.h: No such file or
[04:39] <lamont> +directory
[04:39] <seb128> lamont: yeah, need to picks the new eds I guess
[04:39] <Kamion> lamont: mm, what's the bottom of the ia64 dep-wait chain?
[04:40] <Kamion> seb128: give me a shout when you're done, I'll test stuff in the meantime
[04:40] <lamont> Kamion: gonna figure that out in a few seconds, but I have 23 ia64 failure logs in my mailbox, almost all of them because of uninstallable depends
[04:41] <seb128> Kamion: we don't really need these new versions for array 6, if you want to roll it without them that's ok
[04:41] <pitti> sivang: yeah, use it if it helps
[04:41] <jdub> are dependency migrations into main automated?
[04:41] <Kamion> jdub: no
[04:41] <pitti> sivang: should have an easier interface
[04:41] <Kamion> seb128: there isn't a vast hurry, some hours would be fine
[04:41] <jdub> Kamion: do they require elmo and latex gloves?
[04:41] <seb128> Kamion: k
[04:41] <Kamion> jdub: elmo unless thom knows how to do it; latex gloves are optional
[04:41] <sivang> pitti: might also make the patch less intrusive
[04:41] <jdub> hrm
[04:42] <thom> don't know dependency migration magic, no
[04:42] <Kamion> jdub: not requiring any such stuff for array 6 would be good
[04:42] <jdub> Kamion: ok.
[04:43] <thom> jdub: if you're gonna inflict clearlooks on the masses, please can you work out why i no longer have a mist metacity theme
[04:43] <thom> KTHX
[04:44] <jdub> thom: ubuntu-artwork update is going to include cursors and stuff, but i'm not going to mass-fix upstream bugs directly in hoary
[04:44] <jdub> s/bugs/regressions/
[04:44] <thom> hrmph
[05:03] <sivang> morning mdz
[05:03] <mdz> morning
[05:04] <mdz> Kamion: what's the latest on array 6?
[05:05] <Kamion> mdz: test version building, but would prefer to wait for a few more desktop things from seb128 to sync up; new kernel, xorg 6.8.2-2, and updated d-i all in
[05:05] <Kamion> and new language packs in I think, but need to check
[05:06] <mirak> hi
[05:07] <mirak> I try to run ubuntu using colinux on windows
[05:07] <mirak> however there is a problem
[05:07] <mdz> Kamion: ok
[05:07] <mdz> Kamion: ~mdz/bin/awty :-)
[05:07] <mirak> something tries to acces to the pci port, and of course it doesn't work.
[05:08] <mirak> I was wondering if there is any particular service that ubuntu run that would try to probe pci ports at begining of run level 2
[05:08] <mirak> I should ask that in other channel probably
[05:10] <Kamion> mdz: heh
[05:10] <Kamion> useful, that
[05:11] <mdz> a bit heavy-handed
[05:11] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[05:11] <Kamion> mdz: it should look for newest of installer-$arch and daily-installer-$arch
[05:11] <mdz> yes, it should
[05:11] <mdz> pitti: morning
[05:12] <Kamion> noticeable at the moment since daily-installer-powerpc wasn't working for a while
[05:13] <zul> tseng: go get it ill be back later
[05:13] <zul> tseng: http://zulinux.homelinux.net/ubuntu/kernel
[05:19] <lamont> seb128: which version of which package is it that fixes the whole 'libhowl.la is missing' failure thang?
[05:20] <seb128> for x-c ?
[05:20] <mdz> Kamion: which package could I use as a test case to fix the daily-installer/installer thing?
[05:21] <Kamion> mdz: rootskel
[05:22] <lamont> seb128: looking at a diff package on either ia64 or hppa, truth be told, as I wander through my email.
[05:22] <lamont> getting tired of doing the 
[05:22] <lamont> give-everything-back-and-pray trick
[05:23] <seb128> lamont: basically dropping libhowl-dev out of libgnomevfs2-dev 
[05:23] <lamont> ok
[05:24] <seb128> lamont: but libgnome libgnomeui evolution-data-server libbonoboui etc have it in their .la file
[05:24] <seb128> and thanks libtool
[05:24] <lamont> so things that are failing because of that want to d-w the current (source) version of libgnomevfs2-dev
[05:24] <lamont> ?
[05:24] <seb128> we get that mess
[05:24] <seb128> no
[05:24] <seb128> we want to rebuilt all these libs to get rid of libhowl in all the la files
[05:24] <seb128> grep howl /usr/lib/*.la
[05:25] <seb128> yeah, keep smatching the retries ...
[05:25] <seb128> if you give me a failure I can say which one is faulty
[05:28] <mdz> Kamion: ok, fixed
[05:28] <lamont> seb128: ia64 is still failing eel2 with howl bitchiness
[05:29] <lamont> but 20+ other packages are in the blender, we'll see what the next round says
[05:30] <Kamion> mdz: cool, yeah. BTW I think your set import logic at the top is wrong
[05:30] <Kamion> (purely on a technicality)
[05:32] <Kamion> firstly 1.5 won't meet that condition but 1.3 will (if you care), and secondly set looks like it'll be undefined with python 2.4
[05:33] <seb128> lamont: Setting up libgnome-desktop-dev (2.9.92-0ubuntu1) ...
[05:33] <seb128> lamont: that's the issue for eel2, need 2.9.92-0ubuntu2
[05:33] <Kamion> hm, except set() is a builtin in 2.4, silly me
[05:34] <mvo> Kamion: is it too late to move libgnome2-perl to desktop? we discussed it a while ago on ubuntu-devel ML 
[05:34] <Kamion> mvo: not from my point of view, but talk to mdz/jdub about that
[05:34] <Kamion> I don't have jurisdiction over desktop
[05:36] <jdub> i think it was heading towards a yes
[05:37] <ogra> jdub: lets rewrite it in python for hoary+1 ;)
[05:38] <sivang> ogra: let's rewrite everything in python for hoary+1 ! ;-) could be like python desktop
[05:39] <ogra> sivang: so get more MOTUs in ;) 
[05:39] <lamont> seb128: cool
[05:39] <dholbach> ogra: and someone to review their packages ;-)
[05:39] <sivang> pitti: halfway there, the gui is now responsive to weather browsing is enabled/disabled/custom. now make a callback for enabling/disabling.
[05:39] <lamont> seb128: so, like we said, given the speed of the buildd's, hail-mary approach is probably simplest/fastest
[05:39] <ogra> sivang: then lets start with the kernel ;) 
[05:39] <mvo> jdub: I assume I can't to the seed change myself?
[05:39] <sivang> ogra: hehe
[05:40] <sivang> ogra: that was a very good one :)
[05:40] <mdz> mvo: not right now, please
[05:40] <pitti> sivang: cool
[05:40] <seb128> lamont: out of the bases libs that should go fine
[05:40] <sivang> pitti: hope to finish this soon, so it would get in
[05:40] <pitti> sivang: please note that there is still a bug in g-c-m
[05:40] <mdz> mvo: we are preparing array 6
[05:40] <lamont> seb128: although g-s-t on amd64 concerns me...
[05:40] <mvo> mdz: ok
[05:40] <pitti> sivang: if you enable browsing, you don't immediately see new printers
[05:40] <jdub> mvo: post-preview would be better, i think
[05:40] <pitti> sivang: you have to restart g-c-m to see them there
[05:41] <pitti> sivang: however, they will work
[05:41] <mvo> jdub: ok
[05:41] <sivang> pitti: unfourtunately I don't have my lan here, I am not at home, you would have to check it for me :-)
[05:41] <pitti> sivang: sure, I'll do
[05:41] <seb128> lamont: Setting up libnautilus-extension1 (2.9.91-0ubuntu2) ...
[05:41] <seb128> lamont: need 2.9.92
[05:41] <lamont> woot
[05:41] <sivang> pitti: but you are restarting g-c-m with you backend scripts
[05:42] <sivang> pitti: when we go enable/disable
[05:42] <pitti> sivang: however, you can check yourself with "/usr/share/cups/browsing_status; echo $?"
[05:42] <pitti> sivang: no, I restart cupsys, not g-c-m
[05:42] <pitti> sivang: if you w
[05:42] <pitti> sivang: if you can work around this bug by restarting g-c-m, this would be nice
[05:42] <pitti> sivang: however, the bug should just be fixed
[05:42] <pitti> sivang: I'll look into this tomorrow, though
[05:43] <lamont> seb128: any word on gtk-doc?
[05:44] <seb128> lamont: a sec, I look on it
[05:44] <lamont> there's a bug in bz about it
[05:44] <lamont> (build-conflicts openjade, but build-depends something that depends openjade...
[05:45] <lamont> back in a few
[05:45] <seb128> oh yeah, I've read that mail
[05:46] <sivang> pitti: do we have till tommorow?
[05:46] <pitti> sivang: for bugfixing, yes
[05:46] <pitti> sivang: we can always fix bugs
[05:46] <sivang> pitti: if we have till tommorow our UTC time, then I will also try tackle restarting g-c-m :)
[05:46] <pitti> sivang: however, your stuff is partly a new feature
[05:47] <pitti> sivang: so this is urgent
[05:47] <sivang> pitti: right 
[05:47] <sivang> pitti: ok, if we have until tommorow I'll see about restarting g-c-m after finishing this work
[05:48] <pitti> sivang: don't worry, we can restart it if fixing the actual bug is too complicated/invasive
[05:48] <pitti> sivang: for now, just do the required stuff to call enable_browsing
[05:48] <sivang> pitti: ok, till _when_ do we have time?
[05:49] <pitti> sivang: would be nice if you finished it today
[05:49] <pitti> sivang: otherwise we do that after the preview
[05:49] <sivang> pitti: which means for hoary+1 ?
[05:49] <pitti> sivang: and can test the stuff in between
[05:49] <pitti> sivang: no, after the hoary preview
[05:49] <pitti> sivang: i. e. in the last month before the release
[05:49] <pitti> sivang: but the sooner, the better
[05:49] <sivang> pitti: right, ok, back to work :)
[05:55] <mdz> seb128: which bits do you need to upload yet for array 6?
[05:56] <seb128> mdz: all is uploaded, wait to get the builds all right
[05:56] <mdz> ok
[05:56] <seb128> mdz: i386 seems to be fine, gnome-themes 2.9.94 to build that's all but we don't need it for the array
[05:56] <mdz> seb128: is the powerpc icons bug fixed?
[05:56] <seb128> mdz: yep, with gtk 2.6.3
[05:58] <seb128> jdub: around ?
[05:59] <mdz> great
[05:59] <mdz> mvo: update-notifier seems to still detect live CDs as upgradeable
[06:00] <seb128> mdz: do you know if somebody will update the desktop files for gnome-app-install ?
[06:00] <Kamion> mdz: mmm, I thought I fixed that
[06:00] <dholbach> seb128: yeah! games! :-)
[06:00] <mdz> Kamion: I saw the Packages files disappear at one point
[06:00] <mvo> mdz: I was under the impression that Kamion fixed that?
[06:01] <Kamion> the Packages files appear to be gone
[06:01] <Kamion> apart from the ones under debian-installer/, obviously
[06:01] <mdz> yep
[06:01] <mdz> confirmed that a) non-d-i Packages files are gone, but b) update-notifier still wants to upgrade from it
[06:01] <jdub> seb128: yo
[06:02] <mdz> hmm, stand by
[06:02] <seb128> jdub: about gnome-app-install / desktop files ?
[06:02] <mdz> perhaps that was actually from the previous CD
[06:02] <mdz> sometimes g-v-m wakes up when I burn a CD, and notices the previous volume in the drive
[06:02] <mdz> jdub: if you aren't going to get that done before preview, the time to hand it off is right now
[06:03] <jdub> seb128: busy preparing talk for tomorrow; will most likely do it tomorrow afternoon
[06:04] <jdub> mdz: data just needs tweakage, and then we'll need some g-a-i work
[06:05] <seb128> jdub: I can do it if you want ... do you have any tool to get the desktop files ?
[06:05] <mvo> jdub: what kind of g-a-i work is needed?
[06:06] <jdub> seb128: 'sok, will sort out with ross tomorrow
[06:06] <seb128> k
[06:07] <seb128> mvo: s/gtk.TRUE/True/g :)
[06:07] <mvo> seb128: heh
[06:07] <seb128> /usr/lib/gnome-app-install/AppInstall.py:99: GtkDeprecationWarning: gtk.TRUE is deprecated, use True instead
[06:07] <seb128> that's ugly :p
[06:07] <mdz> mvo: yes, I just tested properly and the live CD is still recognized by update-notifier
[06:08] <jdub> mvo: just some bugfixing for weird .desktop files
[06:08] <mdz> I also noticed a bug in gnome-app-install yesterday, where if it can't find a certain package, it throws a stack trace and gets into a bad state
[06:08] <jdub> bum. we really ought to ship gimp-svg.
[06:08] <rburton> mdz: eek. can you replicate?
[06:09] <mdz> rburton: let me boot the machine in question, and I can get you the trace from ~/.xsession-errors
[06:09] <mdz> it looked trivial to fix
[06:09] <rburton> mdz: excellent. mail it to ross@burtonini.com, thanks
[06:10] <rburton> mvo: i get lots of (synaptic:1058): Gdk-CRITICAL **: gdk_window_set_cursor: assertion `window != NULL' failed when g-a-i spawns synaptic
[06:10] <jdub> file and cc ross@burtonini.com please
[06:10] <jdub> ugh, mirroring really hammers my network
[06:10] <rburton> mvo: right, and synaptic has hung again
[06:10] <rburton>  1062 ?        Zs     0:00 [synaptic]  <defunct>
[06:11] <mvo> mdz: I'm downloading a current cd now and will fix it then
[06:11] <mvo> rburton: I'll take care of the warnings
[06:12] <mdz> rburton: mailed
[06:12] <mdz> rburton: looks like it needs "self.cache[name]  and ..." or similar
[06:12] <mdz> or name in self.cache
[06:19] <mdz> building new live images with xorg 6.8.2-2 now
[06:20] <mvo> mdz: do you want me to upload a fixed update-notifer (once it's fixed)? or should I wait until array-6 is finished?
[06:21] <rburton> right, if "foo" is in baz control but i want the pristine file, i did mv foo foo.newer and now baz update won't give me the original
[06:21] <rburton> why won't it do what cvs does!
[06:21] <mdz> mvo: trivial fix?
[06:21] <mdz> rburton: you want "baz undo"
[06:21] <mvo> mdz: no idea yet, still downloading a testcd :/
[06:22] <mdz> which I find more intuitive than what cvs does
[06:22] <rburton> ah yes
[06:22] <mdz> mvo: then let's wait :-)
[06:22] <rburton> so i cp the file and baz undo it
[06:22] <Kamion> (baz undo -n to throw away the change rather than leaving ,,undo-*)
[06:22] <mdz> rburton: or just baz undo it; it saves your changes so you can redo them later, etc.
[06:23] <mvo> mdz: ok :)
[06:23] <rburton> aaah ok
[06:23] <lamont> mdz: where does it save them?
[06:24] <lamont> ,,changes<mumble>
[06:24] <lamont> ?
[06:24] <rburton> mdz: my arch tree has fixed your bug now i hope
[06:25] <rburton> ,,undo<blurb>
[06:26] <Keybuk> lamont: those are debris left by a bug in "baz update"
[06:27] <lamont> Keybuk: ah, ok
[06:53] <mdz> jdub: is the new ubuntu-artwork Cliff's stuff?
[06:53] <jdub> mdz: no
[06:53] <mdz> jdub: where does that stand?  he told me you guys had a meeting scheduled last night, but didn't say when
[06:54] <jdub> mdz: we've had rolling meetings now that he's grokked the timezones
[06:54] <jdub> mdz: goals are set, we're tracking daily drops, etc.
[06:56] <mdz> jdub: are we on track to get a drop into hoary for preview?
[06:57] <jdub> mdz: yep
[06:59] <mdz> jbailey: ping, re: scsi.agent
[06:59] <tseng> jdub: 
[06:59] <tseng> crw-rw-rw-  1 root root 10, 63 2005-03-02 12:57 /dev/inotify
[06:59] <tseng> rock.
[06:59] <Kamion> is scsi.agent not done?
[06:59] <jdub> tseng: 0.20?
[06:59] <tseng> .18 + one liner
[06:59] <mdz> Kamion: jbailey's intended changes are done; I want to discuss an additional change
[06:59] <Kamion> ah, ok
[06:59] <jdub> tseng: ahr!
[06:59] <mdz> specifically, that sg should be loaded for cdrom devices
[07:00] <mdz> in order to support writers
[07:00] <jbailey> mdz: HEre.  What's up?
[07:00] <mdz> jbailey: see above
[07:01] <mdz> jbailey: I emailed you a (substandard) diff
[07:01] <jbailey> mdz: md and I were chatting by email about that - I don't get any information telling me that it's a burner AFAIK.  I can simply always load sg when there's a SCSI device easily enough.
[07:01] <mdz> jbailey: yeah, that's what I've been doing
[07:01] <mdz> daniels: xserver-xorg is asking me the video mode question on every upgrade
[07:01] <tseng> jdub: hm, so still no hotplug usb showing up in drivemount-applet / desktop
[07:01] <mdz> daniels: (this is my usual system, behind a KVM which doesn't do DDC)
[07:02] <mdz> daniels: it's also wiping out my manually-specified sync ranges
[07:02] <tseng> jdub: was rumored to be fixed in latest gamin
[07:02] <Kamion> mdz: I'm off for dinner now; test images are syncing/burning in my absence
[07:02] <mdz> Kamion: the cloop builds aren't quite finished yet, at least not for all arches
[07:02] <Kamion> no problem
[07:03] <jbailey> mdz: Oh, I see.  Do it only when it's a cd drive at all, that makes sense.  Is there nothing else that might want sg too?
[07:03] <mdz> weddell and king are finished
[07:03] <mdz> jbailey: the only examples I know of are CD writers and tape changers
[07:03] <mdz> I don't have one of the latter to test with
[07:03] <jbailey> mdz: I can do it easily enough with st then too.
[07:04] <mdz> jbailey: if I'm not mistaken, this applies to USB writers, too
[07:04] <mdz> it doesn't typically matter for me because I use growisofs and DVD media (which doesn't require the sg madness)
[07:04] <jbailey> Do those show up as SCSI?
[07:04] <tseng> hm, unmounting said usb hotplug device = hardlock
[07:04] <mdz> jbailey: yes
[07:04] <mdz> tseng: welcome to inotify hell
[07:04] <jbailey> mdz: Then it should be covered by this.  I make sure that SCSI is run after both pci and usb.
[07:04] <mdz> s/welcome/& back/
[07:04] <tseng> thanks.
[07:04] <tseng> at least it doesnt hardlock at login
[07:05] <mdz> at least it doesn't eviscerate you and leave you to bleed to death
[07:06] <tseng> that would be an interesting trick
[07:06] <tseng> context switch from kernelspace to meatspace
[07:06] <thom> mdz: you've been using tla again?
[07:08] <mdz> thom: did you and enrico straighten out the OMF stuff for ubuntu-docs?  they still don't seem to be showing up in yelp
[07:10] <thom> i don't appear to have anything from enrico; i'll grab and take a look
[07:12] <froud> thom: we are stuck on the OMF scrollkeeper stuf
[07:13] <froud> I have requested help from the devel group there
[07:13] <froud> no answer yet
[07:13] <sivang> froud: see the "writing scrollkeeper OMF files" intro on d.g.o
[07:13] <froud> we are not sure if its a scrollkeeper problem or an XML catalog problem
[07:14] <froud> sivang: its notthe OMF that is valid to the DTD
[07:14] <froud> the problem is at registereation
[07:14] <froud> registration
[07:14] <sivang> froud: is enrico calling update-scrollkeeper post install?
[07:14] <froud> we get an error that the dtd cannot be loaded from the network
[07:14] <sivang> froud: argh
[07:14] <mdz> it should point to the local copy, not the network copy
[07:15] <froud> it does
[07:15] <froud> but the DocType Decl uses Docbook 4.3
[07:15] <mdz> froud: neither ubuntu-faqguide nor ubuntu-quickguide installs an omf file; is that intended?
[07:16] <froud> mdz: yes
[07:16] <froud> we have notpackaged it as it does not work yet
[07:16] <froud> we cant register the OMF without errors
[07:17] <froud> but we also have problems with Yelp
[07:17] <froud> it doe snot support many things
[07:17] <froud> I would preffer to only use the HTML we derived from the XML
[07:17] <froud> Open directly in FireFox from System > 
[07:17] <froud> menu
[07:18] <mdz> can't yelp read the XML directly?
[07:18] <froud> It can but does not support the full docbook tag set
[07:18] <froud> also cant handle certain attributes
[07:19] <rburton> froud: shaun has said he'll expand the xslt on demand
[07:19] <froud> makes a mess ofthe output result
[07:19] <froud> yes I sope to him
[07:19] <froud> spoke
[07:19] <froud> he does not hav ethe time
[07:19] <froud> I was gonna patch the XSL
[07:19] <froud> but have not had the time for it
[07:20] <froud> so it is a bug in GNOME bugzilla
[07:21] <froud> mdz: the scrollkeeper/OMF problem should not stop the release
[07:21] <justinc> does hoary have multilib support for amd64 like the way fedora does it or do/will you need to create a 32bit chroot?
[07:21] <froud> providing people will agree to use the HTML version
[07:22] <rburton> froud: whats the bug#?
[07:22] <mdz> froud: ok. when is the next documentation meeting?  i would like to discuss all of the issues which are relevant to the release
[07:22] <jdub> froud: wow, what kind of weird stuff are you using?
[07:22] <froud> mdz: I will ask enrico     to post a metting
[07:22] <froud> meeting
[07:22] <rburton> jdub: that is what i'm thinking. most tags would be trivial to add
[07:23] <mdz> thanks
[07:23] <froud> jdub: docbook 4.3 but for    example we use the endterm of xref
[07:23] <froud> yelp does not know what to do in the XSL
[07:24] <mjg59> Gah damned network card reference counting
[07:24] <jdub> froud: you should talk to shaunm on irc.gnome.org, #gnome-hackers
[07:24] <froud> jdub: I have had numerous conversations
[07:24] <froud> personally I dont think Yelp is production ready
[07:25] <jdub> ...!
[07:25] <seb128> it works great here
[07:25] <sivang> it works great for me also :)
[07:25] <froud> jdub: we can get far better results with just XHTML/HTML
[07:25] <seb128> ?
[07:25] <jdub> froud: yelp renders all the gnome documentation, which is not exactly insignificant.
[07:25] <sivang> seb128: it also _so_ pretty , I should tell shaunm about how much I like it 
[07:26] <rburton> froud: did you file the missing elements in gnome bugzilla?
[07:26] <jdub> froud: yes, there are some unsupported elements, but shaunm can very quickly outline those
[07:26] <froud> well guys why dont you go at it
[07:26] <jdub> froud: i would be very surprised if we required much outside the scope of the gnome documentation requirements
[07:26] <seb128> jdub: not only the GNOME one, it displays the API and other debian stuff fine too :)
[07:26] <sivang> froud: work with shaunm, he would help us make the XML integrate nicely
[07:26] <froud> I am saying yelp does not support what we are doing in the Ubuntu Docs
[07:26] <sivang> froud: did he get an account for the docteam svn server eventually?
[07:27] <froud> sivang he did not want one
[07:27] <froud> he cant commit to the project no point giving him an account
[07:27] <rburton> froud: is there a list of tags which are problematic?
[07:27] <sivang> froud: eh, talked with him before mataro and he was interested, well, guess he changed his mind.
[07:27] <froud> two are tops of the list: trademark
[07:28] <jdub> sivang: he's keen to help, but he's very busy. becoming a documentation maintainer is not going to be useful for him.
[07:28] <froud> and the endterm attribute on the xref
[07:28] <rburton> froud: ok
[07:28] <sivang> jdub: ah good to know he didn't change his mind then ;) and yes, I know he's very busy 
[07:28] <froud> The GNOME docs are made to strict templates
[07:28] <froud> these templates do not meet our requirements
[07:29] <mxpxpod> quick question: is anyone working on the 2.6.11 kernel for ubuntu?
[07:29] <jdub> froud: why's that?
[07:29] <froud> their template is great if you want to write a single apps doc
[07:29] <thom> froud: i'm still trying to work out what specific problem you guys were having with scrollkeeper/omf? is there a mailing list post or something to describe it? (also, are the omf files for faqguide/quickguide available anywhere?)
[07:29] <tseng> mxpxpod: the kernel team has been hacking on it since rcX
[07:29] <mxpxpod> tseng: awesome
[07:29] <froud> we are writing for across mutiple apps in different context
[07:30] <tseng> mxpxpod: maybe after preview freeze..
[07:30] <mxpxpod> tseng: preview freeze?
[07:30] <ogra> tseng: oh, tomorrow ?
[07:30] <froud> thom: do checkout of our svn trunk
[07:30] <thom> froud: which is where?
[07:30] <froud> thom: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos
[07:30] <froud> thom: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
[07:31] <froud> We have one omf at present for testing see in debian/
[07:31] <mdz> ubuntu-docs installs release-notes.omf and about-ubuntu.omf
[07:31] <mdz> those don't seem to cause problems, as far as I see
[07:31] <thom> they appear to register without problems
[07:34] <froud> mdz: can you find the docs in yelp
[07:34] <mdz> froud: no
[07:34] <froud> we have only been testing on about-ubuntu.omf
[07:34] <sivang> froud: have you specificed which under seciton you want to have the file registered?
[07:34] <sivang> froud: this is important so yelp knows where to display your doc 
[07:34] <mdz> I don't know where te look, either
[07:34] <sivang> froud: (that is, under which catagory)
[07:34] <froud> i did not realize enrico had added the omfs already
[07:34] <mdz>     <subject category="Core|Distributions|General|Introductory"/>
[07:34] <mdz> is that the relevant bit?
[07:35] <sivang> mdz: there's also something for the other ones, like "Desktop | Developemtn | ..."
[07:35] <sivang> mdz: IIRC
[07:35] <rburton> froud: trademark works for me with yelp 2.10
[07:35] <froud> we have 2.9.3
[07:35] <mdz> sivang: install ubuntu-docs, look at /usr/share/omf/{about-ubuntu,release-notes}.omf
[07:36] <mdz> 2.9.3cvs20050222-0ubuntu2
[07:36] <mdz> is current in Hoary
[07:36] <froud> at leastthat what I got in the last hoary update
[07:36] <seb128> you need the CVS snapshots
[07:36] <rburton> the important package is gnome-doc-utils
[07:36] <seb128> of gdu/yelp
[07:36] <froud> shaumn may have fixed some things in 2.10
[07:36] <seb128> you should try the current versions ...
[07:36] <sivang> mdz: ok, looking there in a minute.
 was added on 2004-05-24
[07:37] <froud> mdz: can you do scrollkeeper-install -v -p about-ubuntu_db_dir about-ubuntu.omf to see the error we get 
[07:38] <froud> seb128: why if hoary is shipping 2.9.3
[07:38] <froud> mdz: the permission error is normal
[07:38] <seb128> ii  gnome-doc-utils  0.1.2cvs20050221 a collection of documentation utilities for the
[07:38] <seb128> ii  yelp             2.9.3cvs20050222 Help browser for GNOME 2
[07:38] <froud> its the network entity that is the prblem
[07:39] <seb128> froud: we have some CVS snapshots
[07:39] <froud> yes of 2.9.3
[07:39] <mdz> I/O error : Attempt to load network entity http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd
[07:39] <seb128> sure, that's the current version in the CVS
[07:39] <froud> mdz: that's th eproblem we want solved
[07:40] <mdz> froud: you need to fix that in your XML
[07:40] <froud> seb128: 2.9.3 is problem
[07:40] <seb128> why ?
[07:40] <mdz> mizar:[/usr/share/ubuntu-docs/C]  grep -r 'http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd' .
[07:40] <seb128> that's the current upstream code
[07:40] <mdz> [lots of matches] 
[07:40] <froud> why cant we use Docbook 4.3
[07:40] <mdz> froud: you can
[07:40] <seb128> mdz: the catalog should take care of this, shouldn't it ?
[07:40] <mdz> but it's in /usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/docbookx.dtd
[07:40] <mdz> don't use an http:// URL
[07:40] <mdz> seb128: should it?
[07:40] <froud> mdz: that's my point hoary xml catalog resolver etc is messed
[07:41] <rburton> froud: what system id were you using?
[07:41] <froud> mako: logged bugs on this
[07:41] <froud> Hoary
[07:41] <seb128> mdz: we have stopped to sed the oasis dtd in the debian/rules since we have a catalog
[07:41] <mdz> seb128: it should detect the URL and substitute the local file?
[07:41] <seb128> correct
[07:41] <thom> your OMF doesn't match your docbook, either
[07:41] <mdz> ah, I didn't know that
[07:41] <mdz> seb128: which package handles that?
[07:41] <froud> thom only the releae enotes one
[07:41] <froud> thom: only the release notes one
[07:42] <jdub> mdz: libxml2 does the resolving, if there's a valid (and useful) catalog
[07:42] <thom> froud: about-ubuntu too
[07:42] <froud> we are trying to get the about-ubuntu.omf working
[07:42] <sivang> froud: what about <relation seriesid=""></> tag? I don't see you created one for about-ubuntu.omg
[07:42] <sivang> froud: omf, even
[07:42] <dholbach> isnt it libxml2-utils?
[07:42] <seb128> mdz: the catalog stuff are in /etc/xml/ and the packages shipping a dtd are supposed to use update-catalog, but I don't really know the details on how that works
[07:42] <sivang> froud: or did you find out it's not neccessary?
[07:43] <froud> <format mime="text/xml" dtd="-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN"/>
[07:43] <froud> <relation seriesid="7fb11226-8a1d-11d9-9fcf-ff970c259736"/>
[07:43] <froud> do you see that in about-ubuntu.omf
[07:43] <sivang> froud: I don't
[07:43] <froud> svn up
[07:44] <sivang> froud: eh, I installed from source
[07:44] <froud> no the build is behind the src
[07:44] <froud> I think enrico did the build before we discovered this problem
[07:44] <mdz> seb128: what is the URL used in the documents which work properly with the catalog?
[07:46] <mdz> ./docbook-xml.xml:<delegatePublic publicIdStartString="-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN" catalog="file:///usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/catalog.xml"/>
[07:46] <mdz> there seems to be an entry in the catalog
[07:46] <seb128>  xmlcatalog --shell 
[07:47] <seb128> > public "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN"
[07:47] <seb128> file:///usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/docbookx.dtd
[07:47] <seb128> mdz: that
[07:47] <mdz> yes, that seems to work as it should
[07:47] <seb128> yep
[07:47] <mdz> isn't the problem that the files refer to the system id (URL) rather than the public id (-//OASIS...)
[07:48] <seb128> I think so
[07:48] <froud> seb128: we also have a problem with catalogs when we run xsltproc in our make
[07:48] <froud> seb128: it always wants to go to the network when the dtd is installed local
[07:49] <seb128> is your catalog working ?
[07:49] <seb128> ie
  xmlcatalog --shell 
 > public "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN"
 file:///usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/docbookx.dtd
[07:49] <froud> hold must reboot my hoary host I just crash ed it
[07:50] <froud> ok new machine
[07:50] <mako> this series of bugs has been showing up repeatedly in debian xml packages
[07:50] <mako> i've fixed it at least three times in different places in debian
[07:50] <froud> seb128: no
[07:51] <mako> in one packages (the slides stuff) it has been reintroduced at least twcie
[07:51] <seb128> froud: so your system is broken somewhere ...
[07:52] <froud> and everyone else on the docteam?
[07:52] <mdz> yes, the catalog lookup certainly seems to work from the shell
[07:52] <mdz> but it clearly isn't using it for processing the xml for some reason
[07:52] <froud> to get xslt proc working we hav eto export the xmlcatalog
[07:52] <mdz> if I change the URL to a local one, it works of course
[07:53] <froud> mdz: sure
[07:53] <mdz> shouldn't we do that as a workaround, since these documents are intended to be used primarily on Hoary?
[07:53] <sivang> froud: when you have your OMF registering, take a look at /usr/share/scrollkeeper/Templates/C/scrollkeeper_cl.xml - make the omf falls into one of the catagories specified there, if you havn't done so already.
[07:53] <seb128> BTW time for dinner, bbl
[07:54] <froud> sivang: OK. I saw this part in the scollkeeper docs 1.0
[07:54] <froud> I dont think the problem is scroollkeep I think it is the xml catalog on hoary
[07:55] <froud> mdz: yes we can, but that means we work around a bug without solving the problem
[07:55] <sivang> froud: ah ok, just noting it to you since I managed to register some dummy docs of mine into yelp long ago, and the one thing preventing me from succeding was that I used the wrong catagories.
[07:55] <froud> mdz: it also assumes the location of the dtd will not change in the furture
[07:56] <froud> sivang: thank
[07:56] <trulux> tritium: ping
[07:56] <tritium> trulux, hello
[07:56] <froud> mdz: btw on my suse boxes the dtd and xsl's are indifferent places. The same place you will find them on most distros
[07:56] <trulux> tritium: going to finish as most sections as I can, the JFFS3 work could get some time before I really start coding, among the currently cailable patch, Intell will approve the work in 2 months or so :D
[07:57] <froud> I dont know why debian still has them in the old locations
[07:57] <trulux> tritium: howya?
[07:57] <mdz> froud: as far as I can tell, the catalog is correct
[07:57] <mdz> apparently scrollkeeper isn't using it properly
[07:57] <tritium> trulux, I'm fine, thanks.  You?
[07:57] <froud> at this point it gets beyond me
[07:58] <mdz> aha
[07:58] <froud> mdz: I am       opefully going to get a response soon from the scrollkeep devel team
[07:58] <mdz> it works if I use DocBook 4.0
[07:58] <mdz> but not 4.3
[07:58] <trulux> tritium: I'm ok, happy 'cos exams finished :D
[07:58] <froud> you tried it and it worked or you asking
[07:58] <mdz> I tried it
[07:58] <mdz> it works for the 4.0 example document, but not for the 4.3 example document
[07:59] <mdz> /usr/share/doc/docbook-xml/examples/test-4.0.xml
[07:59] <mdz> /usr/share/doc/docbook-xml/examples/test-4.3.xml
[07:59] <tritium> trulux, good
[07:59] <froud> Hmm ... I'm not immediately sure where the problem lies either. Would
[07:59] <froud> you be able to attach an example OMF file that fails, please? This
[07:59] <froud> shouldn't be too hard to diagnose.
[07:59] <froud> mdz: here is the initial response from one devel of scrollkeeper ""
[07:59] <froud> so I sent him the file.
[08:00] <froud> mdz: I will role back to dtd 4.1.2
[08:00] <froud> until we fix this
[08:00] <froud> or they do
[08:00] <mdz> that works as well
[08:00] <froud> ok that is what I will do
[08:00] <froud> mdz: thanks
[08:01] <mdz> lamont: have you considered that perhaps you don't have enough bandwidth for a local mirror?
[08:02] <lamont> mdz: I don't have enough money to _not_ have one
[08:02] <mdz> lamont: I don't understand; a local mirror surely uses more bandwidth, not less
[08:03] <lamont> I have all the data transfer I want, at 56kbps or less.
[08:03] <lamont> the local mirror lets me spread the download cost over the entire day
[08:03] <lamont> rather than downloading at speed (or not) as needed
[08:03] <lamont> and it's a partial mirror, although I do have it pretty much grabbing all of main (minus some langpack stuff, and -dbg packages)
[08:04] <thom> seb128: btw, OMF file [/usr/share/omf/gnome-utils/gfloppy-ja.omf]  does not validate against ScrollKeeper-OMF DTD: /usr/share/xml/scrollkeeper/dtds/scrollkeeper-omf.dtd
[08:05] <lamont> I have ~300kbps worth of bandwidth, but only ~100MB  of over-56kbps traffic per day
[08:05] <lamont> and hopefully DSL availability sometime this year.
[08:05] <lamont> anyway, back on in a few.
[08:16] <froud> mdz: ok roleback is done will test the situation
[08:17] <mdz> froud: great, thanks
[08:18] <mdz> froud: please file a bug in bugzilla about this issue, so that we remember to fix it
[08:19] <froud> about the catalog or scrollkeeper :-)
[08:23] <mdz> froud: about the issue we just discussed
[08:24] <froud> mdz: yes, but is the bug in scrollkeeper or the catalog system. or you mean just log the whole lot
[08:24] <mdz> froud: the location of the bug is our problem
[08:24] <froud> ok
[08:26] <Kamion> mdz: this "xserver-xorg asks questions multiple times" thing isn't a blocker for array 6, is it? I'm assuming it doesn't affect initial installations
[08:28] <mdz> Kamion: I thought that was supposed to be fixed with 6.8.2-2
[08:30] <thom> froud: changing the category to  General|Linux|Distributions|Othe gets about-ubuntu into yelp
[08:30] <thom> um, Other
[08:30] <thom> froud: `scrollkeeper-get-content-list C` is a very useful tool
[08:31] <thom> (and I think that category is more correct, anyway)
[08:32] <jdub> dudes
[08:32] <jdub> check out distrowatch
[08:32] <jdub> last three months
[08:32] <jdub> we're number two, below a falling mandrake :)
[08:32] <Kamion> mdz: oh, I thought you reported it just recently
[08:32] <froud> thom can you post your patch to the docteam list
[08:33] <jdub> for one month, we're 200 points ahead
[08:33] <mdz> Kamion: that's a different issue, and no, not a blocker for array 6
[08:33] <Kamion> mdz: ok
[08:33] <mdz> jdub: we've been ahead on 1-month for some time now, but haven't broken the 3-month list
[08:34] <thom> froud: ubuntu-doc@ or what?
[08:34] <froud> thom: ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com
[08:35] <mdz> I think we need to do a lot of work on the yelp hierarchy in general
[08:35] <mdz> things like the faq guide and quick guide should be out in front
[08:35] <mdz> and we should bury some of the more esoteric stuff, especially developer-oriented docs
[08:35] <jdub> yes
[08:36] <lamont_r> jdub: and #4 on the 6 month list.
[08:36] <sabdfl> yelp's *looking* fantastic, just a question of organising the content better
[08:36] <froud> mdz: then there are those of us who what to bury Yelp altogether
[08:37] <mdz> froud: :-)
[08:37] <sivang> mdz: right, it's a bit blurry to know where to find stuff for the average user
[08:37] <mdz> the interface is clean and simple; I understand your concerns that it is lacking in some features on the backend though
[08:37] <jdub> froud: yelp itself is excellent. the infrastructure below is wobbly.
[08:37] <froud> KDE HelpCenter here we come
[08:37] <mdz> we should be able to correct those working with upstream in the future
[08:38] <mdz> speaking of KDE
[08:38] <jdub> mdz: we've already done quite a bit, working with upstream :)
[08:38] <sabdfl> is there a good local search engine?
[08:38] <mdz> lamont_r: we need to start building Kubuntu cloop images
[08:38] <mdz> lamont_r: as of today, the metapackages and their deps are in main
[08:38] <Treenaks> I have a few small issues with yelp -- report bugs (minor) ?
[08:38] <jdub> sabdfl: not really, but we'll get it via medusa and/or beagle
[08:38] <thom> sabdfl: waaaah, bouncing cow is my favourite screensaver
[08:38] <sabdfl> sorry dude
[08:39] <Kamion> mdz: I'll look at Kubuntu ISO images tomorrow
[08:39] <mdz> bouncing cow is a wonder of wonders
[08:39] <jdub> thom: now that pia is trying vegetarianism, she has that on all the time
[08:39] <mdz> Kamion: right, after array 6 is in the bag
[08:39] <thom> sabdfl: but yes, agreed
[08:39] <sabdfl> mabe we can get a high quality penguin modeled?
[08:39] <froud> jdub: the day sof help viewer tools has gone. Plain firefox is all that is required
[08:39] <jdub> sabdfl: bouncing soyuz?
[08:39] <Kamion> good, I was hoping there was no requirement to have a Kubuntu Array 6 :)
[08:39] <sabdfl> hmm... bouncing cosmonaut
[08:39] <mdz> Kamion: I think we can shoot for having a kubuntu preview, though
[08:39] <thom> sabdfl: we could get a different model for each release
[08:39] <Treenaks> sabdfl: get yourself modeled :P
[08:39] <mdz> at least a live CD
[08:39] <Kamion> mdz: yeah
[08:39] <thom> bouncing hedgehog, etc
[08:40] <lamont_r> jdub: 1 month stat is way cool
[08:40] <Kamion> sabdfl: oh, my five-year-old stepson-to-be asks if you saw the Great Wall of China from space; I couldn't remember
[08:40] <jdub> lamont_r: 250 clicks!
[08:41] <froud> thom: did you send that patch?
[08:41] <froud> I want to build
[08:41] <froud> and test
[08:41] <mdz> lamont_r: can you have a set of kubuntu cloop images ready tomorrow?
[08:41] <thom> froud: not yet dude, chill out
[08:41] <lamont_r> mdz: just need to know what to include in them
[08:42] <thom> froud: i think you need to review all your category choices, anyway
[08:42] <Kamion> mdz: (various chunks of KDE haven't built yet judging from britney output)
[08:42] <mdz> lamont_r: standard base, kubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-live
[08:42] <thom> froud: and fix how you're installing omf files
[08:42] <thom> all coming in the mail
[08:42] <lamont_r> mdz: assuming they're installable, no problem
[08:42] <mdz> lamont_r: ubuntu-base (there is not / will not be a separate kubuntu-base)
[08:43] <Kamion> well blast, mount -t nfs riva:/kickstart doesn't want to work
[08:43] <froud> thom: actually I don't know how we're doing it, enrico di dthat stuff . thanks for the headsup will take a look
[08:44] <froud> thom: will get this done in the morning. I am bleeding from my eyes now and my finger tips hurt
[08:46] <mjg59> Argh christing swsusp PAIN
[08:46] <lamont_r> mdz: awesome
[08:47] <mdz> Kamion: are the published kubuntu seeds not refreshed with the same frequency as the ubuntu ones?
[08:47] <thom> froud: sent
[08:47] <mdz> never mind, caching
[08:47] <Kamion> mdz: identical frequency, same cron job
[08:49] <mdz> Kamion: the desktop seed in both ubuntu and kubuntu contains openoffice.org-thesaurus, which doesn't seem to have ever existed
[08:49] <mdz> (it's pure virtual)
[08:49] <mdz> I think we should just remove it
[08:49] <Kamion> isn't there -thesaurus-en and stuff?
[08:49] <Kamion> we probably want at least some of those
[08:49] <thom> mdz: it appears that evolution builds against mozilla, still
[08:49] <mdz> language-support-* should handle oo.o thesauruses
[08:49] <Kamion> true
[08:49] <Kamion> sure, works for me
[08:49] <mdz> but I don't think they do currently
[08:49] <mdz> at any rate, it isn't doing anything in the seed
[08:50] <mdz> thom,seb128: is that fixable?
[08:50] <thom> i only just noticed, i'll try building it with firefox after dinner
[08:50] <mdz> lamont_r: kubuntu-live isn't there yet, but don't let that block you
[08:50] <zul> hey
[08:50] <Kamion> mdz: certainly germinate spits out a warning for it
[08:50] <mdz> lamont_r; just use ubuntu-live in the meantime
[08:50] <mdz> until elmo processes the new kubuntu-meta with live love
[08:51] <mdz> Kamion: as does *-meta/update
[08:51] <lamont_r> mdz: do we have kubuntu-destop, then? or is it in NEW to?
[08:51] <lamont_r> too, even
[08:52] <mdz> lamont_r: kubuntu-desktop is large and in charge
[08:52] <seb128> mdz: just back from dinner, reading
[08:52] <lamont_r> woot
[08:52] <mdz> lamont_r: in main and installable
[08:55] <mdz> lamont_r: it would be nice to be able to build them separately when needed, since we're likely to revise the kubuntu stuff a lot over the next week
[08:55] <mdz> (i.e., with the ssh-able trigger you set up)
[08:55] <lamont_r> yeah - it'll be args to the same script, I expect.  ubuntu or kubuntu, defaulting to ubuntu
[08:56] <mdz> perfect
[08:56] <lamont_r> well, ubuntu, kubuntu, all - choose one or more :-)
[08:57] <thom> mdz: either way, can we remove the mozilla locale packs from the language-packs?
[08:58] <mdz> thom: hmm
[08:58] <Loevborg> mjg59, I'm conversing with you about [Bug 7079]  hibernate report: hibernate.sh crashes
[09:00] <thom> oh, my bad. they appear to be gone
[09:00] <Loevborg> mjg59, that is, you can also talk to me directly.
[09:01] <sivang> can anybody tell me how can I use gksudo to call a root needing program from bash?
[09:01] <wasabi> gksudo program
[09:01] <wasabi> ?
[09:01] <seb128> mdz: <mdz> thom,seb128: is that fixable? <- what ? the dtd issue ?
[09:01] <thom> sivang: gksudo echo foo
[09:01] <sivang> wasabi: doesn't work. doesn't pop up, nothing
[09:01] <mdz> seb128: evolution using mozilla, rather than firefox
[09:01] <sivang> thom: uh-ha
[09:01] <seb128> oh
[09:02] <seb128> mdz: when does it uses mozilla ?
[09:02] <thom> seb128: no, evol b-d's on libnss-dev
[09:02] <seb128> ah
[09:02] <thom> which is mozilla
[09:02] <mdz> oh
[09:02] <seb128> any issue to use libnss-dev ?
[09:02] <seb128> I think that's fine ...
[09:02] <thom> seb128: it keeps mozilla in main
[09:02] <Cyym> hello
[09:03] <mdz> lamont_r: hmm, looks like elmo handled kubuntu-live ahead of time, so it'll be there shortly
[09:03] <seb128> thom: is there any firefox equivalent libs ?
[09:03] <lamont_r> cool
[09:03] <mdz> lamont_r: oh, never mind, that was the source getting accepted. the binary will still end up in NEW
[09:03] <lamont_r> unless he seeded it
[09:04] <thom> seb128: sure, libnss3.so ;-)
[09:04] <seb128> s/libs/package libs/
[09:04] <sivang> thom: doesn't work for me, I wonder what I am doing wrong.
[09:04] <Cym> thom may I pm you?
[09:04] <seb128> or you want to build-dep on mozilla-firefox-dev for that ?
[09:04] <thom> Cym: prefer you don't
[09:04] <thom> Cym: if you have questions, just ask
[09:04] <Cym> yah ok
[09:04] <thom> seb128: m-f-dev
[09:04] <seb128> mdz, thom: syou want to change that for hoary ?
[09:05] <seb128> thom: I'll have a lot, but you should split firefox :)
[09:05] <Cym> just trying to get this libapache2-mod-auth-mysql issue straightend out
[09:05] <thom> Cym: what's the issue?
[09:05] <thom> seb128: yah
[09:05] <Kamion> ok, NFS kickstarting extremely slow for no obvious reason, but does in fact work
[09:06] <Kamion> lamont_r: elmo said earlier that he doesn't preseed new
[09:06] <Cym> well, with the latest version, apache returns a 500 with an internal error message if I try to access a directory that the user does not belong to (when using "groups")
[09:06] <zul> anyone seen tseng?
[09:06] <Cym> the "
[09:06] <Cym> err
[09:06] <Cym> the "user" directive works fine
[09:07] <thom> nice bug
[09:07] <tseng> zul: here
[09:07] <zul> ah good
[09:08] <Cym> if I go back to the previous, it works as expected, so the only difference I can see is that the latest version is supposed to support multiple "require" statements
[09:08] <lamont_r> Kamion: ok
[09:09] <Cym> most of the changes are simple code cleanups
[09:09] <Treenaks> thom: is it Known that there's novell branding in Firefox help?
[09:10] <thom> Treenaks: in our firefox help?
[09:10] <tseng> Treenaks: are you using garett's theme?
[09:10] <Treenaks> tseng: oh wait that might be it
[09:10] <tseng> it is
[09:10] <thom> heh
[09:11] <Treenaks> thom: sorry for the scare
[09:11] <thom> Treenaks: np
[09:11] <thom> i really am getting food now
[09:11] <thom> Cym: hrm, i'll look once i stop starving to death
[09:11] <Cym> I spent some time back trying to explain it to Matthew but he could never duplicate it.. so i suppose the first thing is to reproduce it.  Although, I can reproduce this bug with both apache1.3 and apache2
[09:11] <Treenaks> thom: indeed, it's gone now :)
[09:11] <mjg59> Loevborg: Oh, right, cool
[09:12] <mjg59> Loevborg: The trace is very odd, so I'm not sure whether the patch I'm suggesting will have any effect
[09:12] <Cym> thanks thom
[09:12] <Loevborg> mjg59, we'll see.
[09:13] <tseng> jdub: 
[09:13] <tseng> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ubuntu-artwork_0.2.18-1_all.deb (--unpack):
[09:13] <tseng>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/gnome-background-properties', which is also in package gnome-backgrounds
[09:13] <tseng> which one of you wants the bug
[09:13] <jdub> ah crap
[09:13] <jdub> me
[09:14] <Kamion> yay, completed a kickstart install apart from the fact that the desktop doesn't install
[09:14] <Kamion> and keyboard preseeding was fucked, fixing
[09:14] <rburton> jdub: would you like me to knock up a new g-a-i package tonight or are you planning on dropping a pile of changes on me tomorrow?
[09:16] <zul> jdub: if you are feeling daring http://zulinux.homelinux.net/ubuntu/kernel (inotify)
[09:16] <jdub> rburton: wait until tomorrow, you'll have data bugs then
[09:16] <Kamion> anything I should be waiting for before I fire off the cron.daily that will hopefully construct Array CD 6?
[09:16] <thom> Kamion: #6902, do you feel strongly about adding !fqdn to the sudoers we write on install?
[09:16] <tseng> zul: lets try .20 before we push anything?
[09:17] <tseng> zul: see if it solves more bugs
[09:17] <zul> tseng: yep no problem..
[09:17] <thom> Kamion: not 6902, 2772
[09:17] <tseng> cool
[09:18] <thom> Kamion: with a suitable warning comment it doesn't break the default and ensures sudo still works in the face of no dns
[09:18] <lamont_r> mdz: just to make sure we're on the same page: the first livecd download for amd64 (and ia64) after the preview will be a fullimage (not rsync friendly) based on how much smaller that gets, we can decide on whether or not to do it again for the actual release...
[09:18] <lamont_r> thoughts?
[09:19] <Kamion> thom: yes, fine by me, shadow writes the default file nowadays
[09:19] <thom> shadow does? righto
[09:21] <_d4vid> hi all
[09:21] <Kamion> sabdfl: the current daily doesn't install the second stage successfully, but I'd appreciate feedback on whether or not it really fixes (a) the rf kill switch detection bug, (b) the SATA/PATA CD-ROM issue
[09:22] <Kamion> actually, if everyone who can could give the current daily a go to make sure it detects all their hardware (you don't have to go past partitioning, so you don't need a scratch partition to install in or anything), I'd greatly appreciate it
[09:23] <mdz> lamont_r: I was musing on this today; it would be nice for folks to be able to sync from the preview forward
[09:23] <mdz> lamont_r: so maybe we should flush for the preview
[09:23] <lamont_r> your call
[09:23] <lamont_r> it's litterally just an rm on two hosts in the data center. :-)
[09:24] <lamont_r> (if the previous image is there, then we use it, you see...)
[09:29] <mdz> Kamion: whoa, what's up with the ordering change in d-i startup?
[09:30] <Kamion> mdz: the what?
[09:30] <mdz> Kamion: I saw what looked like cdrom-detect before localechooser
[09:30] <Kamion> did you boot with ks=anything?
[09:30] <mdz> nope
[09:30] <mdz> live
[09:31] <Kamion> fuck, I screwed up kickseed then
[09:31] <lamont_r> Kamion: OK to change the name of the livecd rootfs image?
[09:31] <mdz> live CD seems to work fine
[09:31] <Kamion> will fix
[09:31] <mdz> just looks weird, in this case
[09:31] <lamont_r> adding {ubuntu,kubuntu} in there somewhere
[09:32] <Kamion> mdz: you're seeing the cleverness that kickseed does to get certain kinds of things done early; it's just being a little overenthusiastic :)
[09:32] <Kamion> damnit, I'll need a new d-i byhand
[09:32] <Kamion> thom: you up for that?
[09:32] <thom> Kamion: i can see shadow adding the admin group to sudoers, but i can't see where the default sudoers is created
[09:33] <thom> Kamion: timescale? (yes, but i now really need foor)
[09:33] <mdz> isn't the default sudoers created by sudo?
[09:33] <Kamion> thom: ... oh, actually it must just use the default file created by the sudo package, sorry
[09:33] <Kamion> thom: about +1.5 hours
[09:33] <thom> Kamion: ok, cool
[09:33] <Treenaks> did gaim/gnutls switch to a new entropy source?
[09:33] <thom> mdz: it didn't used to be; guess it is now
[09:34] <Kamion> yes, that was one of the things that (intentionally) changed when we switched to the default admin group thing
[09:35] <thom> okie
[09:37] <ogra> WOW....
[09:37] <ogra> since when has ping the -a option
[09:38] <zul> ogra: cool...now i can annoy people at work :)
[09:38] <tseng> that must be an "accessibility" feature
[09:38] <ogra> but you never have to look at your display to know your server is running g*
[09:38] <thom> ogra: port it to alsa!
[09:39] <ogra> thom: ok, hoary+1
[09:39] <thom> aping would be l337
[09:39] <thom> and get a recording of jdub shouting "bong" for the sample
[09:39] <ogra> hehe
[09:40] <Treenaks> we need that for traceroute as well!
[09:40] <zul> Kamion: im just catching up did -25 go on today's cd?
[09:40] <Kamion> zul: yes
[09:40] <Kamion> on 20050302.1
[09:40] <zul> ok thanks
[09:40] <thully> so - what's the status of array 6 - is there any blockers?
[09:41] <Kamion> I knew you were going to ask that
[09:41] <Kamion> yes, I'm just releasing kickseed 0.13 to fix one blocked
[09:41] <Kamion> blocker
[09:41] <Kamion> and then I am working on it solidly and won't go to sleep until it's out, so please don't repeatedly ask about it
[09:43] <thully> OK - I just was curious - I didn't think I had asked that many times - just once yesterday and once the day before
[09:44] <Kamion> yes, but you always ask while I'm in the middle of preparing a release, before it's even late
[09:44] <Kamion> and it does have a certain "are we nearly there yet" feel about it :)
[09:45] <tseng>  /topic ARE WE THERE YET?
[09:45] <Kamion> please feel free to ask if the release is late, but before then it's best to assume that we (particularly I) are working on it fairly solidly
[09:46] <thully> OK - sorry I asked at all the wrong times...
[09:46] <Kamion> mdz gets to ask me, but he's my boss ;)
[09:46] <mdz> thully: when it is released, it will be announced on the mailing lists and on IRC as usual
[09:46] <Kamion> (and sabdfl, fairly obviously ...)
[09:47] <mdz> so in general, all you need to do is wait
[09:47] <Kamion> we're down to pretty solid release times for Array milestones now, unlike the early days of Hoary where I do concede that they were frequently much delayed
[09:48] <Kamion> but as the final release approaches we have a much better chance of being able to get them out on time
[09:49] <thully> OK - sorry for barging in..
[09:49] <Kamion> np :)
[09:50] <Kamion> T-Bone: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-March/024574.html <-- told you so ;-)
[09:50] <thully> I'm just anxious for a new array release to test some things that may be specific to new installs... i could grab a daily, but I'm on a semi-slow connection and I've had problems getting dailies installed in the past
[09:51] <T-Bone> Kamion: blame it on jbailey ;)
[09:51] <Kamion> rightly so, the current daily's second stage breaks
[09:51] <Kamion> jbailey: ^-
[09:52] <Kamion> jbailey: (the same complaint was raised in Debian when they turned the hard disk LED on for powerpc, and it was quickly turned off again)
[09:52] <jbailey> Kamion: Ah weird.  I had a guy here complaining that it went away when it used to do it.
[09:52] <thully> I wonder, is there a chance that comeone else could test a Hoary install without any networking before release - I do all my installs without networking installed and this tends to present some unique issues for me
[09:52] <jbailey> Kamion: Apparently otherwise there's no hdd light at all on those beasts.
[09:52] <Kamion> I'll try to do so
[09:53] <Kamion> jbailey: yes, but I have such a beast; the hdd light is pretty annoying :)
[09:53] <Kamion> if we turn it on it would be nice to expose a sysctl to turn it off again
[09:53] <thully> no networking - meaning I don't use ethernet and intermittently use wi-fi, and use a modem-like device for all my net traffic
[09:53] <jbailey> I'll lart James Morrison on behalf of all of you, then. =)
[09:54] <Kamion> I have some difficulty constructing a machine with no network devices at all, but I may be able to do so; I can certainly disconnect wireless
[09:54] <Kamion> but I cannot promise changes before array 6 now, only before the preview
[09:54] <sivang> Good night all
[09:55] <thully> OK - I install w/no ethernet or wi-fi installed, and I can get through the install, but I've had a few quirks...
[09:55] <Kamion> since the network configurator's in the d-i initrd which has an extra build delay and a human interaction component at the archive end
[09:56] <thully> like a network icon in the system tray for the loopback interface, and a network configurator in d-i that isn't exactly friendly to a non-networked setup
[09:58] <Kamion> wait for DHCP -> DHCP error -> "Do not configure the network at this time" -> select hostname
[09:59] <Kamion> which is probably fair enough for a device with disconnected ethernet
[09:59] <Kamion> let's try removing the ethernet kernel module
[09:59] <thully> I'm mostly talking with no ethernet or wireless networks available - on my laptop I have an ethernet and wireless card, but often install with neither ethernet or wireless available
[09:59] <Kamion> yes I know
[09:59] <thully> the cards are available, but not the networks
[09:59] <Kamion> if the card's plugged in then you get the sequence I just described
[10:00] <thully> It may be a good idea at some point (not array 6 and maybe not even the preview) to clean up the d-i network configuration to be easier for non-network users
[10:00] <Kamion> I don't honestly think the sequence I described is that bad
[10:01] <thully> For example, if I pick wireless on that screen (since I want wi-fi to be configured for later use) i'm stuck in an infinite loop
[10:01] <Kamion> that certainly sounds like a bug, will see if I can reproduce
[10:01] <thully> and the only way to get out is backing out to the installer menu and manually skipping steps, which doesn't configure the loopback interface (already reported as a bug)
[10:02] <Kamion> I thought I fixed that one recently though
[10:02] <Kamion> the wireless loop
[10:03] <thully> Well, my experience is if you pick wireless, it will scan for networks, and prompt you for essid if it doesn't find one.  If you don't specify an essid, it will repeat the process.  Hence, there is no way to configure the wi-fi for later use
[10:03] <Kamion> yes that's the bug I thought I'd fixed
[10:04] <Kamion> no network interfaces at all -> red screen telling me that -> hit Continue -> select hostname -> install continues
[10:04] <thully> what is the new behavior at this stage of an install-to-HD (not a live CD, that works differently)
[10:04] <thully> if you pick wireless w/no WAPs available
[10:05] <Kamion> one moment, I have to engineer such a setup, which will doubtless annoy my housemates
[10:05] <Loevborg> different problem here, when i installed I didn't get an opportunity to _not_ configure my networking.
[10:05] <Kamion> Loevborg: good
[10:05] <Kamion> that's a feature, not a bug :)
[10:06] <Loevborg> Kamion, but with wireless, it keeps asking me questions about it.
[10:06] <thully> Also, it may be a good idea to add a "No network" option to the menu which gives you a choice of network cards to configure
[10:06] <Kamion> Loevborg: see what I just said to thully!
[10:06] <Loevborg> Kamion, sure.
[10:06] <Loevborg> still, being able to skip the dhcp run would be an improvement imho.
[10:07] <Kamion> Loevborg: doubt that'll happen, sorry
[10:07] <Loevborg> I'm sure this has been discusses a lot though :)
[10:07] <Kamion> thully: there are already several options on the netcfg "stuff went wrong" menu, one of which I'm sure did that
[10:07] <Kamion> Loevborg: yes, we have a hard requirement not to add more questions to the install
[10:09] <Kamion> so "try DHCP, if it fails then go away" is about the best we can do given that many network cards don't support ethtool/MII properly or lie in the results
[10:09] <thully> well, I'm just saying - if a dial-up user (yes, they still exist) wants to install Ubuntu, it should be easy to just pick "No network" right when they're prompted to configure network cards and skip over the whole process (just list it in addition to the available network cards)
[10:09] <Loevborg> but when it asks me which interface to configure, it could just aswell admit "none" as a third option.
[10:09] <Kamion> Loevborg: that's only useful if you have >1 interface though, with 1 interface we want it to just try
[10:10] <Kamion> thully: hm, ok, that wireless loop bug is still there, evidently I only fixed the live CD case
[10:10] <Kamion> sorry about that, I thought I'd got both
[10:11] <Loevborg> Kamion, and when it asks me for an ESSID, there could also be an option to skip it. but don't think I'm complaining, only suggesting.
[10:11] <Kamion> Loevborg: see the last two lines. :-)
[10:11] <Loevborg> "proposing"
[10:11] <Kamion> I'm having two independent conversations about the exact same thing with two people here, it's very confusing
[10:13] <Loevborg> to add some spice, /etc/init.d/networking sometimes takes ages to configure wireless, and then - sometimes - when I ctrl-c it, Xorg doesn't start (no loopback device).
[10:13] <Loevborg> but I see that this is not #ubuntu-bugs :)
[10:14] <thully> So, should I report any new bugs on bugzilla about this?
[10:15] <Kamion> thully: sure, it's much better that than to report them *just* before a release which is the exact time when I have no hope of fixing them before the next milestone release :)
[10:15] <Kamion> stuff in bugzilla about d-i will be assigned to me (either automatically or, probably, manually)
[10:16] <Kamion> and I will try to do what I can about no-network configuration
[10:16] <sabdfl> Kamion: should the new cdrom/sata stuff mean that it should work on a normal installed desktop too?
[10:17] <Kamion> sabdfl: given unified hardware detection, I'd hope so, but I'm not certain
[10:17] <sabdfl> Kamion: doesn't seem to be
[10:17] <Kamion> sabdfl: jbailey would probably be the best one to debug with ...
[10:18] <Kamion> thully: oh, I think I see why the repeated wireless ESSID question bug happens
[10:18] <Kamion> fixing it properly is a string change, though, hmm
[10:18] <abelli> sivang: ping
[10:19] <jbailey> sabdfl: Did the fix not do it for you?
[10:19] <Loevborg> much appreciated. btw always implicitly read "kudos for your excellent work".
[10:20] <sabdfl> jbailey: am on 2.6.10-25, and no, i don't see the cdrom
[10:20] <sabdfl> not as /dev/hd* anyhow
[10:20] <jbailey> sabdfl: Do you have /dev/sr0 ?
[10:28] <thully> Bug #7098 is now in the database, with info on the wi-fi/ESSID issue
[10:31] <sabdfl> jbailey: yes
[10:31] <jbailey> sabdfl: It's showing up as a SCSI cdrom then.  I see that on my SATA system, too.
[10:32] <sabdfl> hm...
[10:32] <sabdfl> so that should work?
[10:32] <mdz> should be /dev/scd*
[10:32] <Kamion> thully: right, replied
[10:32] <jbailey> sabdfl: It seems like the unified drivers just do the whole thing as SCSI now, even the PATA drives.
[10:32] <sabdfl> ok
[10:32] <jbailey> mdz: I had /dev/scd0 too.
[10:32] <sabdfl> i see /dev/scd0 too
[10:33] <mdz> well yay
[10:33] <jbailey> sabdfl: If you could test that it actually reads, that would be lovely.  My SATA system is in a data centre, 3 times zones from here. 
[10:33] <thully> Kamion: should I file a lower-priority bug requesting a "None" option on the screen prompting for a network card to configure?
[10:33] <Kamion> thully: sure
[10:34] <Kamion> thully: I doubt it will happen for systems with one interface, but it could happen for systems with more than one
[10:34] <thully> well, systems w/one interface will automatically try that and prompt if it can't find a network to connect to, so it isn't necessary
[10:35] <Kamion> the same argument applies to systems with one interface
[10:35] <Kamion> it's just that changing it for systems with one interface would involve an extra question that previously wasn't asked
[10:37] <Kamion> jbailey: all-IDE systems are still /dev/hdc or whatever, at least
[10:38] <jbailey> Kamion: Yes.  It's only where the sata driver is providing the pata interface too.
[10:41] <thully> OK - this "none" option issue is bug #7101
[10:42] <thully> Also, you were saying a red screen appeared when there is no network - shouldn't this just be a normal screen, since systems with no network isn't necessarily an error...
[10:42] <Kamion> perhaps, yes
[10:44] <Kamion> go ahead and file about that too, component netcfg
[10:45] <thully> One last issue with non-networked setups - After install, there is always a network status icon for loopback in the system tray - any way this can be taken care of?
[10:46] <thom> thully: that'll go away in hoary+1
[10:46] <Kamion> didn't you say that was because you went back rather than continuing?
[10:46] <Kamion> due to the loop
[10:46] <zul> jbailey, whats up with the sata stuff?
[10:46] <jbailey> zul: Nothing, works exactly as predicted.
[10:46] <zul> sweet
[10:48] <Kamion> hm, I should make my ubuntu-build-di script connect to the buildds in parallel rather than serially
[10:49] <Loevborg> mjg59, I just tried your ad-hoc patch, it doesn't change a thing AFAICT.
[10:50] <mdz> Kamion: what would be involved in arranging for English to be supported in addition to the language selected in the installer, per default (as far as language-{pack,support}-en)?
[10:50] <Kamion> mdz: trivial change to base-config/lib/menu/pkgsel
[10:50] <mdz> Kamion: blitted you my script for same
[10:50] <Kamion> (to always add en to get_language_packs output
[10:50] <Kamion> )
[10:51] <mdz> Kamion: can you remember to do that after array 6 (or before, if you prefer), or should I file a bug?
[10:51] <Kamion> mdz: probably best to file a bug on base-config for me, but I'll try to do it tomorrow
[10:53] <mdz> done
[10:53] <seb128> jdub: naten doing some rocking work on smb://, he has just fixed smb to browser and use winXP shares correctly (anonymous without asking for a password and privates working great)
[10:53] <thully> as far as the network interface icons, I'd just say revert this to the Warty behavior (don't have status icons by default except for wi-fi signal) but that's just my opinion
[10:54] <Kamion> "revert to Warty" is usually a much harder thing to do than it sounds
[10:54] <Kamion> many other things will have changed in the same component
[10:54] <jdub> seb128: yeah, that's way cool
[10:55] <jbailey> seb128: krb support yet? =)
[10:55] <seb128> jdub: nautilus working fine on a winXP network is nice :)
[10:55] <seb128> jbailey: that's supposed to work for a while, alex has worked on this for redhat
[10:55] <seb128> jbailey: no ?
[10:56] <seb128> hum, perhaps some patches are needed for that
[10:56] <jbailey> seb128: Ah, okay.  It always prompted me for a password while I was still at FundSERV.  
[10:56] <jbailey> seb128: I didn't know it was in yet.  It could've been anything including heimdal/mit mismatch.
[10:56] <Kamion> mdz: oh, to be able to override it with preseeding I guess I want to change it in localechooser instead
[10:56] <Kamion> anyway, I'll look at it
[10:57] <seb128> jbailey: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/nautilus-list/2004-July/msg00154.html
[11:00] <thom> that's awesome
[11:00] <thom> my screen is now full of firefox windows
[11:00] <herve> hi
[11:01] <herve> in a setup.py install script of a Python package
[11:01] <herve> does any distutils guru can confirm me the "data_files" argument in setup() lists the location of source files and not destination files?
[11:06] <thom> *sigh* at xscreensaver "censorship"
[11:06] <sabdfl> suck it in
[11:06] <sabdfl> ;-)
[11:06] <thom> sabdfl: this is all your fault ;-)
[11:09] <thom> seb128:  8318 thom      15   0  152m  22m  12m S 98.2  2.3   9:25.06 nautilus
[11:09] <thom> wth?
[11:11] <sabdfl> thom: punishment from the sacred cows
[11:12] <thom> the cows should love me; i stopped them bouncing
[11:12] <thom> maybe the campaign for freely bouncing cows is DoSing me
[11:12] <mpt_newjersey> "We are free-bouncing bovines. We bounce free ... today."
[11:13] <zul> ack...we already discussed cows in #-kernel
[11:15] <thully_> hi - has there been any progress on getting icons to appear on the desktop for CD-ROMs, USB keys, etc etc?  This stop working for me some time back in hoary
[11:18] <seb128> thom: bah
[11:18] <seb128> thom: 16596 seb128    16   0 17068  14m 1776 S 22.5  1.4  33:52.68 polypaudio
[11:18] <seb128> in the same style :p
[11:19] <thom> seb128: i'm taking no blame for polypaudio :-)
[11:19] <seb128> 15925 seb128    15   0 43908  23m  11m S  0.0  2.3   0:01.91 nautilus
[11:19] <seb128> for nautilus here
[11:19] <thom> yeah, it just screamed up when i deleted an svg file
[11:19] <thom> s/deleted/dragged to wastebasket/
[11:19] <Kamion> thom: there should be four d-i byhands on jackass; could you process them, or shout if there aren't amd64/i386/ia64/powerpc all there?
[11:19] <seb128> what version are you running ? for how long ? do you have a way to get eating like that ?
[11:19] <Kamion> with recent timestamps
[11:20] <seb128> thom: oh, interesting, is that reproducible ?
[11:20] <thom> seb128: current; dunno; will try
[11:20] <thom> Kamion: k
[11:23] <Kamion> instead of bouncing cow, I propose that we play "Cows With Guns" at login time
[11:23] <thom> ok; elmo's "only try if super necessary" comment doesn't fill me with joy, but lets see
[11:23] <Kamion> in pursuit of bovine liberation
[11:23] <thom> Kamion: gotta be better than those damn bongoes
[11:24] <herve> Kamion, what about pacifists cows? ;-)
[11:24] <Kamion> "we will fight for bovine freedom and hold our large heads high; we will run free with the buffalo or die ... cows with guns"
[11:25] <Kamion> http://www.danalyons.com/lyrics/lyrics_for_public/cows_with_guns_lyrics.html
[11:28] <aboe> can somebody help me with my linux partitioning
[11:29] <aboe> want to merge to partitions
[11:37] <thom> Kamion: should be done
[11:37] <Kamion> thom: awesome, thanks
[11:44] <lamont_r> Kamion: user trying to install got an error about not finding a kernel on his x86 box...  with a recent daily, i believe
[11:44] <Kamion> lamont_r: would need to see logs
[11:44] <Kamion> /var/log/*
[11:44] <Mithrandir> Kamion: in PC World Norway Express (which is a biweekly thingy), our installer is described as "quick and boring".  I think that's a good thing. :)
[11:44] <lamont_r> ah, I have proc/cpuinfo - will get the rest for you
[11:44] <Kamion> Mithrandir: excellent. :)
[11:45] <mdz> Kamion: let me know when I should test a new set of images
[11:45] <Kamion> lamont_r: could just be a bad burn
[11:45] <Kamion> mdz: waiting for next cron.daily to kick them off
[11:45] <HcE> Mithrandir: why should an installer be "fun" ?
[11:45] <Mithrandir> they complain about that they couldn't find any graphical way to download updates, so probably haven't found synaptic.
[11:45] <HcE> maybe implement tetris support ;)
[11:46] <Mithrandir> HcE: as I said, I think it's a good thing that it's boring.  Not interesting or anything. :)
[11:46] <mdz> Kamion: are we finished with package uploads for array 6 (assuming no new problems are discovered)?  do we need to build a new cloop image to get in sync?
[11:46] <HcE> plain, straith forware is excellent
[11:46] <lamont_r> Kamion: requested, we'll see how quick a turn around we get...
[11:46] <HcE> allways liked the debian/ubuntu approach
[11:46] <HcE> s/forware/forward/
[11:46] <Mithrandir> HcE: written by Mohammed, former barbara.no guy.
[11:47] <HcE> Mithrandir: heh, I have shown him both apt-get, aptitude and synaptics...
[11:47] <Mithrandir> synaptic. :)
[11:47] <Mithrandir> not synaptics.
[11:47] <HcE> ;P
[11:47] <HcE> I don't use that tool
[11:47] <Mithrandir> me neither.
[11:47] <mvo> tsss
[11:48] <seb128> lamont_r: howl/build sorted ?
[11:48] <thom> synaptics is something utterly different :-)
[11:48] <Mithrandir> mvo: I like text-based tools.  X is a nice tool for multiplexing terminal windows. ;)
[11:48] <Kamion> lamont_r: requested of whom?
[11:48] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, I think so; please do
[11:48] <mvo> Mithrandir: yeah, I know :)
[11:48] <mdz> ok
[11:48] <Kamion> Mithrandir: or the update manager
[11:49] <jbailey> Kamion: So that I know, what's the matching rootskel update that was needed to go along with #1440, the SATA fix?
[11:49] <HcE> hehe, you got credits in the article Mithrandir :DD
[11:49] <HcE> -D
[11:49] <Kamion> jbailey: src/lib/debian-installer-startup.d/S03hotplug runs init scripts
[11:49] <Kamion> rc scripts, rather
[11:49] <Kamion> hmm, I suppose I should update ddetect as well ...
[11:49] <Kamion> I'll do that after array 6
[11:49] <mdz> Kamion: are there good reasons why it can't use init.d/hotplug?
[11:50] <Kamion> mdz: I do not particularly want to delegate critical parts of d-i startup to other packages, particularly not when merging this back to Debian
[11:50] <Kamion> using init scripts from the real system has been a good way to break things in the past
[11:50] <Mithrandir> Kamion: was the update manager in warty?
[11:50] <mdz> due to busybox?
[11:50] <Kamion> and the change I made is much simpler
[11:50] <mdz> Mithrandir: no
[11:50] <Mithrandir> HcE: I know :)
[11:50] <Kamion> mdz: due to crap like LSB init scripts :(
[11:50] <Kamion> but busybox also
[11:51] <Kamion> I really think it's much clearer what's going on the way it is
[11:51] <jbailey> Kamion: What's the best way for me to make sure that anything I fiddle with in hotplug gets into d-i?  I've got mdz's sg patch done here and tested, so it's ready to go in.
[11:51] <HcE> Mithrandir: all my support over MSN are not mentioned :P
[11:51] <Kamion> jbailey: d-i uses everything else in hotplug as normal, it's just rc script ordering
[11:51] <mdz> a <1k /lib/lsb/init-functions would solve that problem once and for all, but I'll take your word that overall it's not the right thing
[11:51] <Kamion> mdz: I do have such an init-functions, it's an ugly hack IMHO and I wish it could go away
[11:52] <jbailey> Kamion: 'k
[11:52] <Kamion> I've been meaning to fix pcmcia-cs for a while ...
[11:52] <mdz> jbailey: you're not planning to upload it until after array 6, though, right?
[11:53] <mdz> is there anyone who is working on moving pcmcia to hotplug so that pcmcia-cs can go away?
[11:53] <jbailey> mdz: I was planning on checking with you in a moment now that it's ready to make sure I wouldn't run over array 6 in any way.
[11:53] <Kamion> jbailey: BTW, have a look at the way I did the init script ordering in rootskel; I think it's much simpler and I'm not sure how the very complex version in hotplug is better?
[11:53] <mdz> seb128: gah, I thought you were finished
[11:53] <Mithrandir> HcE: *chuckle* :)
[11:53] <mdz> we need to stop uploading at some point here so that we can build consistent CD images
[11:54] <seb128> mdz: the gnome-vfs2 upload interfers with the array 6 build ?
[11:54] <mdz> seb128: it goes on the CDs, yes
[11:54] <mdz> our goal is to have the same versions on the live CD and the install CD
[11:54] <mvo> hi doko 
[11:54] <seb128> mdz: sorry for that, just pushing a samba fix for nautilus, trying to get smb:// working fine for 2.10
[11:55] <jbailey> Kamion: What's the best way to pull the source for rootskel?  I usually use my Debian d-i checkouts for looking at that code.
[11:55] <jdub> mdz: do we have any download stats?
[11:55] <Kamion> jbailey: no revision control yet, just 'apt-get source rootskel' with Ubuntu deb-src lines, sorry
[11:55] <mdz> jdub: for what?
[11:56] <jdub> mdz: warty
[11:56] <mdz> jdub: yes
[11:56] <thom> Kamion: is it too early to ask whether i cocked up those by hands? (/me is panicing about them somewhat)
[11:56] <jdub> do i have to go through elmo?
[11:56] <Kamion> lamont_r: "requested of whom" -> oh, sorry, I got confused by interleaving conversations
[11:56] <mdz> jdub: depending on what you want, yes
[11:57] <Kamion> thom: can't quite tell yet :( I assume you unpacked them into dists/hoary/main/daily-installer-*/ and updated the current symlinks?
[11:57] <doko> mvo: hi, still awake?
[11:57] <jdub> mdz: hrm, just want some user-understandable figure
[11:57] <thom> Kamion: yeah
[11:57] <Kamion> thom: if you can push a cron.daily then I can check, but never mind if you can't
[11:57] <mdz> jdub: if you want "how many warty CDs did people download from us", we don't have that
[11:58] <jdub> what do we have?
[11:58] <mvo> doko: barely :)
[11:58] <mdz> access logs starting at some point after the release, I think.  ftp logs starting at an unknown time.  no bittorrent records since the last restart
[11:59] <mdz> /var/log/shrug
[11:59] <jdub> heh
[11:59] <jdub> nothing digestable to hand?
[11:59] <zul> mdz: davej wrote a document for suggestions for troubleshoting hardware http://people.redhat.com/davej/hardware-problems.txt when you got a sec can you have a look before i add it to the wiki
[11:59] <jbailey> Kamion: My version evolved out of me starting with tsort and slowly eliminating tools that I realised I didn't have until I was basically in shell.
[11:59] <jbailey> Kamion: This is far simpler. =)
[11:59] <mdz> Kamion: I guess I'm willing to let go of the ideal of having consistent live vs. install in the name of not waiting another hour; let's just use the cloop build which is in progress
[12:00] <mdz> next time, we'll harness elmo and lock down uploads