[12:01] <seb128> sorry :(
[12:01] <mdz> no worries; we are just a bigger team than we used to be :-)
[12:02] <mdz> not everyone knows what everyone else is doing\
[12:02] <mdz> I thought about having a release weather applet
[12:02] <mdz> telling what was safe to upload at the current moment
[12:02] <jbailey> mdz: Is there an equivalent of snapshot.debian.net?  Maybe also just get a version number list, and pick them specifically.
[12:03] <mdz> jbailey: morgue.ubuntu.com is the closest thing we have
[12:03] <lamont_r> seb128: x-c /ia64 just tossed back into the fray, Ithink that's the end of howl.
[12:03] <seb128> mdz: should mail or put a topic about upload freezes :)
[12:03] <lamont_r> Kamion: yeah - requested of said user, who is going to try to reproduce it now.
[12:03] <lamont_r> and given that the CPU in question is a copermine, I don't see why it would fail...
[12:04] <jbailey> mdz: Yeah, that would do, they just would need to be aptable.  Then make a version list as of a given moment and add today's date to the source.list, and you've got your snapshot without freezing anything.
[12:04] <sabdfl> guys, hoary looks superb. really looking forward to preview
[12:04] <sabdfl> night all
[12:05] <Kamion> night Mark
[12:05] <mdz> night
[12:05] <thom> night mark
[12:06] <mdz> jbailey: it gets to be complex because we're building different things in different places and need for them to be in sync.  it's much simpler to stop processing uploads for the hour or so that we need to roll one of these
[12:06] <lamont_r> jbailey: actually, having a script rip across morgue.u.c and compose source packages across all of them could be a nice thing tohave.
[12:06] <lamont_r> mdz++
[12:06] <sabdfl> brainy, ballsy, bawdy, bendy, breezy, beefy... hmm...
[12:06] <sabdfl> kthxbye
[12:06] <lamont_r> sabdfl: ballsy?
[12:06] <thom> blousy
[12:07] <Kamion> mdz: it was always going to be awkward today, with elmo travelling
[12:07] <jbailey> lamont_r: Wasn't it some name like that which got jdub larted for the release names in Gnome? =)
[12:07] <mdz> yeah, I didn't realize the array-6/cabal-meeting collision until just now
[12:07] <seb128> jbailey: yeah, now GNOME releases are not named :p
[12:08] <thom> jbailey: the release codename was "and testicles too" or something, and lots of french people whined :P
[12:08] <seb128> (that's kind of true :p)
[12:08] <thom> seb128: yes, that's the best part :-)
[12:09] <seb128> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2004-February/msg00051.html
[12:09] <seb128> that's it
[12:10] <mdz> thom: the English blame the French, and the French blame GTK?
[12:11] <jbailey> Does that make Miguel French?
[12:11] <seb128> ah ah :)
[12:11] <jbailey> ;P
[12:11] <seb128> rofl
[12:12] <zul> everybody blames the french..
[12:12] <zul> or people from toronto
[12:12] <thom> mdz: nah, the french just lose paris 
[12:12] <seb128> rrrroh
[12:12] <jon1012> (someone knows a good lib to instanciate an app ? like gedit who open a new tab when you open a new file with nautilus)
[12:12] <jon1012> hmmm
[12:12] <jon1012> i'm french :(
[12:12] <jon1012> lol
[12:12] <seb128> jon1012: gedit use bonobo for that
[12:13] <seb128> :)
[12:13] <zul> my dad is a francophone
[12:13] <jon1012> seb123 > thx :)
[12:14] <mdz> lamont_r: weddell finished awfully fast; did it succeed?
[12:14] <jon1012> seb128 > do you know tutorials for this type of thing ?
[12:14] <jon1012> seb128 > or doc maybe ? :/
[12:14] <seb128> gedit's code ? :)
[12:14] <jon1012> loool
[12:14] <jon1012> :p
[12:14] <lamont_r>  ubuntu-desktop: Depends: powermanagement-interface but it is not going to be i
[12:14] <lamont_r> nstalled
[12:15] <lamont_r> mdz: that'd be a 'no' ^^^
[12:16] <thom> pm-i is arch: any
[12:16] <lamont_r> seb128: syck is the only ia64 failure currently sitting on the pile
[12:17] <lamont_r> and it segv's - bumer
[12:17] <thom> ah. acpi-support is the issue
[12:17] <thom> bugger
[12:19] <seb128> lamont_r: k
[12:19] <eazel7> flash plugin crashes my browsers :(
[12:19] <thom> lamont_r/mdz: I can upload a new acpi-support if it helps, just adding ia64 to the arch list
[12:19] <eazel7> anybody noticed this?
[12:19] <thom> eazel7: please take support queries to the #ubuntu channel
[12:19] <Kamion> thom: please
[12:20] <lamont_r> thom: won't it fail?
[12:20] <thom> lamont_r: why? acpid is available on ia64
[12:20] <thom> as is acpi
[12:20] <eazel7> ok
[12:20] <lamont_r> ah, nm.  please upload away
[12:20] <eazel7> but I'm using hoary, #ubuntu anyway?
[12:20] <lamont_r> yes
[12:21] <Kamion> thom: for the record your byhands look ok, we'll find out in a bit though
[12:21] <lamont_r> eazel7: this would be the channel to discuss your proposed code change to fix the issue.
[12:21] <eazel7> k
[12:21] <Kamion> acpi-support will bite the install CD too
[12:21] <thom> Unpacking acpi-support (from ../acpi-support_0.19_ia64.deb) ...
[12:21] <thom> Setting up acpi-support (0.19) ...
[12:21] <thom>  * Checking battery state...                                             [ ok ] 
[12:22] <lamont_r> thom: you running hoary on that ia64 box?
[12:22] <thom> lamont_r: yes
[12:23] <lamont_r> Kamion: how close are daily/current to array 6's release state?
[12:24] <Kamion> lamont_r: daily/current won't install second stage
[12:26] <lamont_r> oh well.  with luck it's a small rsync from array 6, yes?
[12:26] <Kamion> should be, yeah
[12:27] <lamont_r> because eventually, my buddy is going to kick me out.. :-)
[12:28] <Mithrandir> mvo: around?
[12:28] <mvo> Mithrandir: yes, but pretty sleepy
[12:28] <Mithrandir> mvo: could you send me your .dmrc?
[12:29] <Mithrandir> just paste it in a query.
[12:29] <mdz> Kamion: cloops are ready
[12:29] <mdz> lamont_r: weddell == powerpc?
[12:29] <Kamion> weddell == ia64
[12:29] <Kamion> starting live CD builds now
[12:29] <mvo> Mithrandir: sure
[12:29] <lamont_r> weddell==ia64
[12:29] <mdz> would anyone cry if we didn't have an array 6 for ia64?
[12:29] <lamont_r> adare == ppc
[12:30] <lamont_r> a daily later wouldn't hurt either
[12:30] <Kamion> mdz: kinda sucks in the release announcement
[12:30] <Kamion> we can leave out just the live CD
[12:30] <mdz> we could use the old cloop for ia64
[12:30] <Kamion> I'm going to wait for acpi-support for the install CD anyway
[12:30] <mdz> lamont_r: how old is it?
[12:30] <lamont_r> Kamion: then again, not having it would tend to maybe motivate the technical folks to step up to the plate....
[12:30] <mdz> Kamion: you do want to sleep at some point, don't you?
[12:31] <Kamion> lamont_r: true ...
[12:31] <jon1012> (I know it's not the place, but is there somebody knowing something about bonobo activation here ?)
[12:31] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, but I also want to not release a mess
[12:31] <lamont_r> 20050211.3
[12:31] <lamont_r> libbonobo was backed up for a while
[12:32] <Kamion> lamont_r: if you build the cloop when fixed acpi-support's in, I can rebuild just the ia64 live CD and release that
[12:32] <lamont_r> Kamion: works for me
[12:32] <Kamion> thom: would you mind hurrying cron.daily when acpi-support builds are ready?
[12:32] <Kamion> doing whatever the katie crontab does, I guess
[12:35] <lamont_r> thom: holler when you kick it, eh?
[12:36] <Kamion> #7108> what sets the default keyboard rate? it sure as hell isn't base-installer
[12:36] <Kamion> I guess that's in the kernel or something
[12:38] <mdz> even if ia64 were horribly broken, I wouldn't consider it a mess overall
[12:38] <lamont_r> mdz: ia64 or the array? :-)
[12:39] <Kamion> mdz: some urgent-must-be-fixed-right-away bustage has come up in Debian, so I'm going to be up for a while anyway :(
[12:39] <thom> Kamion: waiting on buildds
[12:39] <Kamion> thom: ta
[12:42] <lamont_r> thom: I think they've all uploaded
[12:43] <thom> lamont_r: jackass disagrees
[12:43] <lamont_r> well, I told em all to
[12:44] <thom> oh, just waiting for queue run
[12:44] <thom> i'll let you off :-)
[12:45] <lamont_r> yeah - cron.hourly; cron.daily :0)
[12:45] <lamont_r> although hourly is probably safer to just wait 5 minutes
[12:45] <thom> lamont_r: yes
[12:49] <amu> hmm what happend with gnupg-agent, gnupg2 gpgsm ?  
[12:52] <thom> aww:
[12:52] <thom> Installing new version of config file /etc/init.d/powernowd ...
[12:52] <thom> This processor "" is known _not_ to support power-saving.
[12:52] <thom> you mean mckinley doesn't support speedstep?
[12:53] <lamont_r> hehe
[12:53] <Kamion> live CDs available
[12:53] <thom> Updating wanna-build databases...
[12:55] <thom> Kamion: mirrors should be updating now
[12:55] <lamont_r> meaning jackass is current?
[12:55] <thom> jackass is current now, yes
[12:55] <thom> cron.daily just finished
[12:55] <Kamion> lamont_r: what's wrong with it?
[12:56] <lamont_r> package in main b-d package in universe --> loop every cron.daily, polluting the reports
[12:56] <Kamion> ouch
[12:56] <lamont_r> ia64 livecd/d-i builds kicked
[12:56] <lamont_r> and there are at least 2 such packages today
[12:57] <lamont_r> so w-b needs to respect the ogre model
[12:58] <lamont_r> OTOH, it's pretty easy to tell, even with my hail-mary gnome smashing today
[12:58] <thom> oh, fucksticks
[12:58] <thom> i need to fix ffox on ia64 at some point
[12:58] <lamont_r> thom: lol
[12:59] <lamont_r> hey - fix hppa whileyou're at it,eh?
[12:59] <lamont_r> same bug, wasn't it???
[12:59] <thom> hrm
[12:59] <thom> that means finding power and network for the hppa
[01:00] <lamont_r> thom: I'll buy you _3_ beers if I can quit stripping firefox from the ubuntu-desktop/hppa :-)
[01:00] <thom> i'm hoping it'll just go away when i upload ff 1.0.1 actually
[01:01] <lamont_r> that'd be way cool
[01:01] <Kamion> and cdimage cron.daily's away
[01:02] <thom> Kamion: d-i look ok then? *phew*
[01:03] <Kamion> thom: I think so, yeah
[01:03] <Kamion> we'll find out :)
[01:03] <thom> heh
[01:05] <thom> Kamion: i may just be about to suffer sketchy routing while blackcat do a router swap out
[01:05] <Kamion> k
[01:06] <thom> although, i think the worst of it just happened :-)
[01:07] <amu> Kamion: any idea where's gnupg2 left? thought, i would already once have seen this in archive
[01:07] <lamont_r> ubuntu-desktop is installable
[01:08] <lamont_r> and currently installing
[01:08] <Kamion> amu: dunno, sorry, have had a lot of stuff to pay attention to today ...
[01:08] <Kamion> cjwatson@rookery:~$ madison-lite gnupg2
[01:08] <Kamion> cjwatson@rookery:~$
[01:10] <thom> thom@jackass:~ $ grep gnupg2 /srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/queue/accepted/REPORT
[01:10] <thom> thom@jackass:~ $
[01:11] <thom> i'd say that was fairly conclusive
[01:11] <dholbach> good night everyone
[01:12] <lamont_r> thom: yeah.  that'd better be conclusive
[01:12] <thully> does anyone know if the fact that no icons for USB sticks, CD-ROMs, etc are appearing on the desktop is considered a feature or a bug for Hoary?
[01:12] <HrdwrBoB> yeah inofity
[01:13] <lamont_r> thully: at this point, I think that would make it a feature
[01:13] <thully> funny... too bad, as this worked OK on Warty
[01:14] <lamont_r> well, I'm hardly authoritative on that subject.
[01:14] <lamont_r> but current plan for inotify is to have it disabled, but as close to working as possible if you enable it, for release
[01:14] <zul> lamont_r: inotify should be disabled
[01:14] <lamont_r> so if it truly depends inotify, then it'll be off
[01:14] <lamont_r> zul: right
[01:15] <lamont_r> too close to release to be debugging it now
[01:15] <zul> nah..:)
[01:15] <lamont_r> OTOH, once we do release, then we turn it back on once it's stable enough to avoid the wrath of jdub, et. al.
[01:16] <seb128> 'night
[01:17] <lamont_r> thom: so is shtoom gonna make hoary? huh? huh? huh????
[01:17] <zul> heh...well you dont need inotify for things like beagle anymore
[01:17] <thom> lamont_r: talk to daf
[01:17] <lamont_r> thom: yeah - saw his packages, was wondering if we were going to at least get it into universe before releas
[01:17] <lamont_r> s
[01:17] <lamont_r> e
[01:18] <thom> lamont_r: too many things on my plate to think about shtoom atm; i'll try and work with him post preview 
[01:18] <lamont_r> kewl
[01:21] <Kamion> y'know, technically, adding acpi-support to ia64 requires a change to ubuntu-meta too ... but right now that can go jump
[01:22] <lamont_r> Kamion: technically?  it got in there... explicitly seeded or not... :-)
[01:23] <Kamion> yeah, powermanagement-interface depends on it, I guess maybe we should unseed it
[01:23] <Kamion> and thus change ubuntu-meta for the two other architectures. :)
[01:23] <lamont_r> yeah
[01:23] <lamont_r> :-)
[01:24] <lamont_r> and label the checkin 'remove acpi-support from i386, amd64' :-)
[01:24] <Kamion> heh
[01:24] <Kamion> shame we don't actually mail seed changes anywhere - that'd be good for a coronary or two
[01:25] <thom> heh
[01:33] <thom> Kamion: no problems i take it?
[01:33] <Kamion> thom: hard to tell, CDs haven't finished building
[01:33] <lamont_r> Kamion: I'll be back on in about 5-10 min
[01:33] <Kamion> ok
[01:33] <thom> Kamion: how long will they likely take? I can wait :-)
[01:34] <Kamion> thom: about 15-20 minutes I think
[01:34] <thom> kewlies
[01:36] <mjg59> Argh why does swsusp have to be so crap
[01:37] <zul> mjg59: have you tried swsusp2 or is that even more crappier
[01:38] <mjg59> zul: That's crappy in entirely different (and far more crackful) ways
[01:38] <mjg59> zul: It puts a user interface in the kernel
[01:38] <zul> ah
[01:38] <zul> ewww
[01:38] <zul> thats kind of bad
[01:38] <mjg59> Seriously, the kernel says Press escape to continue
[01:39] <zul> thats crap
[01:39] <mjg59> That's why we're not shipping it
[01:39] <zul> good
[01:41] <zul> good to know as well
[01:45] <TerminX> http://pastebin.arslinux.com/1370 <- does anyone know what would cause that to happen?  upgraded Hoary this afternoon and was greeted with that mess afterward
[01:45] <zenwhen> trying to overwrite `/usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/gnome-run.png', which is also in package gnome-panel-data
[01:45] <zenwhen> does anyone know the solution to this upgrade issue
[01:45] <zenwhen> i asked once and was given the solution but a friend of mine is now having the issue and i have forgoten the solution
[01:46] <TerminX> what package is giving you that?
[01:46] <thom> ubuntu-artwork
[01:47] <TerminX> you could dpkg -i --force-overwrite I guess
[01:47] <Kamion> thom: won't that hit install CDs?
[01:47] <schweeb> TerminX: hah, you said the force word... evil
[01:48] <TerminX> schweeb: what, you think I'd sit there wasting time trying to find a "pretty" solution to something like an overwritten png of all things? :p
[01:48] <thom> Kamion: hrm; didn't for me
[01:48] <thom> or rather, i just installed ubuntu-artwork without problem
[01:49] <TerminX> that png isn't even supposed to be in gnome-panel-data.. it's in gnome-icon-theme here
[01:49] <TerminX> what version of gnome-panel-data do you have installed zenwhen 
[01:49] <lamont> moof
[01:50] <TerminX> and does anyone have any ideas about the apt-get upgrade eating 150 of my device nodes?
[01:50] <lamont> mjg59: gack!  no UI in the kernel, dammit
[01:50] <lamont> (that is, good choice!)
[01:50] <thom> TerminX: i hate to ask, does rebooting help?
[01:51] <Kamion> doesn't need to be :)
[01:51] <thom> TerminX: (ie, is it a temporary issue or is udev utterly hosed)
[01:51] <TerminX> I haven't tried.  I'm sure it would fix it, though.
[01:51] <TerminX> udev has been hosed since it upgraded and stalled doing something last week; I haven't rebooted to fix that yet, simply unmounted it and went back to actual device nodes.. of course, that does mean something in the upgrade just fucked my actual nodes on disk
[01:52] <Kamion> or it might have remounted /dev?
[01:52] <TerminX> I've checked that
[01:52] <Kamion> ok
[01:52] <TerminX> it's not mounted, the actual nodes in my /dev had all of their permissions screwed
[01:53] <TerminX> good thing I don't need most of the affected ones, but it's kind of annoying having to chown and chmod a bunch of ones I do need
[01:53] <TerminX> this has happened before as well
[01:54] <Kamion> bugger, ubuntu-desktop is *still* uninstallable in new install CDs
[01:54] <Kamion> iz gnome bug
[01:54] <mdz> gah
[01:54] <mdz> which bit?
[01:54] <thom> Kamion: bugger
[01:55] <Kamion> gnome-applets, gnome-applets-data, gnome-panel, gnome-panel-data, gnome-system-monitor all uninstallable
[01:55] <Kamion> the first four tend to be interdependent, dunno about g-s-m
[01:55] <Kamion> that's on all architectures
[01:55] <mdz> and seb128 left
[01:56] <Mithrandir> it'll make the code a lot simpler
[01:56] <Kamion> heh, yeah, en_DK.UTF-8 is an interesting one
[01:57] <Mithrandir> Kamion: actually, what locales do you enable if the system default locale is just C?
[01:57] <mdz> how did the cloop images succeed if that stuff is uninstallable?
[01:57] <mdz> unless the problem was caused by that gnome-vfs2 upload, which was just after I started those builds
[01:57] <Kamion> Mithrandir: dunno, the installer never leaves it that way
[01:58] <Mithrandir> Kamion: mvo claims he has C as his locale, with en empty /etc/environment and no Language setting in dmrc.
[01:58] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it might've done once ...
[01:59] <Kamion> it's not supposed to anyway
[01:59] <lamont> Kamion: so are we nearly there yet? :-)
[01:59] <lamont> LOL
[01:59] <lamont> sorry - couldn't resist
[02:00] <Kamion> :)
[02:01] <thom> elmo left me that as a voicemail earlier
[02:01] <Kamion> bastard
[02:01] <thom> when i was kicking gentoo in the RAID array
[02:02] <zenwhen> TerminX, 
[02:02] <zenwhen> thanks for trying to help. Sorry i ran off.
[02:03] <zenwhen> The person I was helping solved it.
[02:03] <zenwhen> and ran off on me
[02:03] <zenwhen> lol
[02:03] <lamont> Kamion: um, the chroots on the buildd's can install ubuntu-desktop....
[02:03] <TerminX> aha
[02:03] <Mithrandir> Kamion: so the user should always have a supported locale set?
[02:03] <zenwhen> Is array 5 pretty stable?
[02:03] <zenwhen> I am planning to do a clean install with it Friday
[02:04] <Kamion> zenwhen: yeah
[02:04] <zenwhen> cool stuff
[02:04] <TerminX> knoppix -> sid -> warty -> hoary :)
[02:04] <zenwhen> I have to do a clean install
[02:04] <Kamion> zenwhen: but by Friday Array 6 will be out
[02:04] <zenwhen> the whole backports thing bit me in the ass
[02:04] <zenwhen> Oh
[02:04] <Kamion> Mithrandir: nowadays, yeah, but can't absolutely guarantee it
[02:04] <Kamion> lamont: maybe britney's wrong, but that doesn't often happen
[02:04] <zenwhen> if it is out early enough in the day I will go with it.
[02:04] <schweeb> TerminX: hah, I reinstall like every month
[02:05] <lamont> Kamion: there was much gnome-thrashing today
[02:05] <TerminX> I don't fuck anything up to the point of reinstallation
[02:05] <schweeb> oh I don't mess things up
[02:05] <Kamion> zenwhen: er, if it's out early Friday that means that I will be up for the next 30-something hours, which I have no plans to do
[02:05] <TerminX> this install is probably torn to shit though.. it's been through a lot
[02:05] <TerminX> it had Xorg built from CVS HEAD on it for a while when it was running sid, et cetera
[02:05] <zenwhen> Kamion, oh dont be a wuss. :P
[02:05] <schweeb> TerminX: I just thrash my system beyone belief by installing packages without care
[02:06] <TerminX> dude, that counts as messing it up
[02:06] <schweeb> my last install, I swear I had every -dev package installed
[02:06] <TerminX> rol
[02:06] <zenwhen> I installed all kinds of things from backports
[02:06] <zenwhen> and my system is a mess
[02:06] <zenwhen> lol
[02:06] <zenwhen> its my own fault
[02:07] <schweeb> TerminX: that's what I mean by thrash...not actual destruction... when shit doesn't compile/work, I just randomly install stuff
[02:07] <TerminX> heh
[02:07] <schweeb> when it works, I stop
[02:07] <Kamion> backports are very difficult to get right; don't use backports not made by people you absolutely trust to be competent
[02:07] <TerminX> when shit doesn't work for me, I figure out the cause of the problem and rectify it
[02:07] <TerminX> if I'm missing a header, I use apt-file
[02:07] <TerminX> and so on
[02:07] <Kamion> if it's "hey, I built this on warty and it seems to work", run away
[02:07] <dredg> TerminX: what? apply logic to the problem? are you *insane*?
[02:08] <TerminX> yes, actually, I am
[02:08] <Mithrandir> Kamion: bah, that sucks, since I then have no really sane way to check whether there is any valid UTF8 locale on the system at all.
[02:08] <TerminX> I make sure to take my pills, though..
[02:08] <schweeb> TerminX: well, there's a method to the magic... but the gnu buildtools are rather vague with dependencies
[02:08] <zenwhen> Fixinfg my current set of problems would require more effort than I am willing to put forth.
[02:08] <schweeb> s/magic/mayhem/
[02:09] <Kamion> Mithrandir: in general you can't guarantee that the user's locale is valid; people set their locale to random rubbish all the time
[02:09] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's damn hard to transfer it to something sensible, then. :)
[02:09] <Kamion> I think unsupported locales should immediately produce an error
[02:09] <Kamion> the sooner the better
[02:10] <Mithrandir> ok, and C is unsupported or not?
[02:10] <TerminX> schweeb: you know, you don't have to completely thrash the install to make things work :p
[02:11] <Kamion> C is absolutely supported, as is POSIX
[02:11] <Kamion> it's like hardcoded in glibc
[02:12] <Mithrandir> but it doesn't support utf8, so utf8migrationtool needs to change it to something sane, preferably with the exact same set of semantics, modulo utf8 support.
[02:12] <Mithrandir> lamont: what CPU family?
[02:13] <schweeb> TerminX: heh, when it tells you you need gnome-dev or something, and there are like 40 pkgs matching that description, you resort to drastic measures
[02:13] <Kamion> nothing UTF-8 has the same set of semantics as C in certain ways that matter
[02:13] <lamont> x86, preferably with a socket7 :-)
[02:13] <Kamion> for instance, collation order is quite different, which tends to irritate the sort of people who use C
[02:13] <lamont> Kamion: very
[02:14] <lamont> LANG=en_US.UTF-8
[02:14] <lamont> LC_COLLATE=C
[02:14] <lamont> ...
[02:14] <Mithrandir> Kamion: so utf8migrationtool really can't convert people who use C, since there is no UTF8 equivalent.
[02:14] <Kamion> lamont: sing it, brother :)
[02:14] <Mithrandir> lamont: heh, probably hard to find, I guess?
[02:14] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it can, but I think it needs to ask them what they want; IMHO you really can't tell automatically
[02:14] <dredg> Mithrandir: unless one were to introduce a C.UTF-8.... *duck*
[02:15] <TerminX> schweeb: ha
[02:15] <Mithrandir> dredg: I think Kamion and multiple other people would kill me for that.
[02:15] <Mithrandir> it's bad enough to have it in the installer
[02:15] <lamont> Mithrandir: ebay, dude.
[02:15] <Mithrandir> people still get money for that kind of old junk?
[02:17] <lamont> Mithrandir: yeah, you can get like 10-20 USD for them.
[02:18] <Mithrandir> heh, ok
[02:18] <lamont> this is the 9 year-old's computer, you see
[02:19] <dredg> nightol
[02:20] <thom> 'nacht
[02:20] <thom> Kamion: if you need desperately urgent root/ftp love, sms
[02:21] <Kamion> thom: ok, thanks
[02:21] <Kamion> "I've just installed Ubuntu 3.6 and I have no mouse."
[02:22] <Kamion> what on earth could 3.6 be?
[02:22] <lamont> array 3.6?  maybe 3.5?
[02:23] <Kamion> seems a stretch, since 3.5 was live-only and he seems to be talking explicitly about an install CD
[02:23] <Kamion> RT?
[02:23] <lamont> remote terminal == why I can't have DSL
[02:24] <Kamion> ah
[02:24] <lamont> deployment schedule is a required disclosure, you see....
[02:24] <Kamion> I assumed it was firefighting somehow :)
[02:24] <lamont>  Current Remote DSL DMT Interface Deployment Locations - Excel Document, 76k, posted 3/1/05
[02:24] <thom> mdz/floud: oh, other thing I noticed with ubuntu-doc is that it talks about 5.4, which is wrong wrong wrong
[02:25] <lamont> yes.
[02:25] <lamont> 5.04, not 5.4
[02:27] <lamont> thom: although 5.1 would be even more wrong
[02:27] <lamont> (for hoary+1)
[02:28] <thom> lamont: indeed
[02:29] <lamont> hrm... either scrounge the shed for a MB for her, or buy a reasonably current system, I think
[02:33] <zul> lamont: i can setup telegram station for you :)
[02:33] <lamont> Kamion: you need anything from me before I run the kids to town?
[02:33] <Kamion> lamont: at the moment I'm just trying to upgrade this laptop despite it being caned by a kernel compile so that I can tell if ubuntu-desktop installs here
[02:33] <lamont> linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-25_20050302-1804 05:04:16 (12 entries, sigma 02:12:03)
[02:34] <lamont> sigh
[02:34] <Kamion> rsyncing down install/i386 too
[02:35] <lamont> Kamion: are these currently at daily/current?
[02:35] <Kamion> lamont: yes
[02:37] <lamont> ok.
[02:38] <lamont> I'll take the laptop with me and go scrounge bw in town then
[02:40] <mdz> I'm not particularly fussed about 5.4 vs. 5.04, but we should certainly be consistent
[02:46] <mjg59> lamont: Is there a repository for the kernel development?
[02:46] <zul> mjg59: yes
[02:47] <mjg59> zul: Is there any sort of public (read) access?
[02:47] <zul> mjg59: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/Archives/
[02:51] <zul> mjg59: you are going for dpl?
[02:51] <mjg59> zul: Yeah
[02:51] <zul> mjg59: cool good luck
[02:51] <HrdwrBoB> angrydpl.com
[02:52] <mjg59> zul: Heh, thanks :)
[03:02] <Kamion> sigh, I bet the Task: ubuntu-desktop lines just need to be regenerated
[03:05] <jon1012> mmh.. Kamion, you are lucky if you contemplate evil hacks only rarely ;) I contemplate each day, on my app... :/
[03:05] <Kamion> who said it was rare? :)
[03:06] <jon1012> loool
[03:06] <Kamion> I try to keep them to a minimum, though
[03:10] <jon1012> same thing for me ;)
[03:10] <jon1012> (there is nothing more horrible and borring than tracking memory leaks :()
[03:11] <Kamion> valgrind is your friend
[03:11] <jon1012> valgrind ?
[03:11] <Kamion> you don't know of valgrind? oh my god
[03:12] <jon1012> I do everything by hand, analysing each line of code... :/
[03:12] <jon1012> lol
[03:12] <Kamion> i386-only, but it is God's gift for debugging memory problems
[03:12] <jon1012> I'll try it ;)
[03:12] <jon1012> thx :)
[03:13] <Kamion> np, I bet you'll wonder how you got by without it
[03:13] <jon1012> lol
[03:27] <mdz> Kamion: hmm, why would task: ubuntu-desktop need to be regenerated?
[03:27] <mdz> Kamion: you could of course switch to installing the metapackage ;-)
[03:28] <Kamion> mdz: it's not regenerated frequently enough
[03:28] <Kamion> yeah, and I could cope with many uses of kickstart not working sanely as a result
[03:29] <mdz> it would shave several seconds off of the install, too. aptitude seems to be much faster at tracing that dependency list than processing the task
[03:29] <Kamion> or if it is regenerated frequently enough, something isn't working
[03:29] <Kamion> you cannot install a metapackage minus one component package
[03:29] <Kamion> you can do this with tasks, and it's a common preseeding case
[03:30] <Kamion> so we need to support the task anyway
[03:30] <Kamion> hm, this would fix ia64 too, bonus
[03:30] <Kamion> without my mad preseeding hack
[03:30] <jon1012> good night everybody
[03:33] <mdz> interesting, python2.3-opengl doesn't depend on python2.3
[03:33] <mdz> or anything else, for that matter
[03:37] <mdz> Kamion: I've added an alias to #3057 "disk-utility" to make it easy to resolve the "ISO crashes disk utility" bugs as duplicates; that we we don't need to repeat ourselves as often
[03:42] <Kamion> mdz: it seems to be unduly difficult to search for resolved bugs by alias
[03:42] <Kamion> I've had that problem before, looking for the universe-security bug
[03:42] <mdz> just type "disk-utility" into the duplicate of: field and it DTRT
[03:42] <Kamion> (thanks, though)
[03:43] <mdz> you can use aliases in place of bug numbers
[03:43] <Kamion> oh, I must have missed that
[03:43] <Kamion> cool :)
[03:43] <mdz> (if it doesn't start with a digit, it's looked up as an alias)
[03:46] <stub> Is it worth me submitting more network applet bugs for hoary, or is it due to be replaced?
[03:49] <mdz> stub: netapplet is in universe
[03:50] <mdz> and staying there for hoary
[03:50] <stub> I'm talking about the network configuration thingy under System->Administration->Network
[03:50] <mdz> ah
[03:50] <mdz> that's gnome-system-tools stuff
[03:50] <mdz> and yes, if it has bugs, please report them
[03:51] <stub> ok. And I'll remember to not call it the Network applet from now on :-)
[03:53] <mdz> Kamion: is there anything I can assist with / test?
[03:56] <zul> mdz: im going to re-assign #5431 to me
[03:57] <mdz> zul: ok
[03:58] <mdz> stub: applets are the beasties which live directly in the panel
[03:58] <mdz> except for the ones which are only notification icons...
[03:58] <zul> mdz: and ill keep my notes there for the usb+inotify there
[04:08] <Kamion> mdz: when cron.daily finishes, certainly ...
[04:09] <mdz> waiting, then
[04:09] <mdz> keeping the writer warm
[04:09] <mdz> I suppose I should test a round of DVDs at some point
[04:11] <Kamion> mdz: I just discovered I hadn't baz-updated little to create install/live DVDs; that'll come with the next round
[04:12] <mdz> I'll wait, then
[04:13] <Kamion> I wonder if you could cat a live CD onto the end of the previous install-only DVD and rsync off that :)
[04:13] <mdz> hehe
[04:13] <mdz> probably the other way around
[04:16] <lupusBE> daniels, /opt/fdo//lib/libglitz-glx.so: undefined reference to `XF86VidModeQueryVersion' any idea where I should look for the cause of this problem?
[04:18] <mdz> Kamion: do you have a cron.daily-live queued as well?
[04:18] <mdz> jigdo seems to account for a huge fraction of cron.daily runtime
[04:20] <Kamion> mdz: not yet
[04:20] <Kamion> mdz: yes, need to switch to JTE
[04:20] <Kamion> it's lots of md5summing
First, uninstallable packages:</p>
[04:34] <Kamion> [...] 
[04:34] <Kamion> <p align=right>(there were 0 all up)</p>
[04:34] <Kamion> hooray, much better
[04:35] <Kamion> I'll rebuild live for completeness
[04:35] <Kamion> mdz: oh, do we want to rebuild the cloops again? I guess not
[04:36] <Kamion> ia64's cloop build died; I'll omit its live CD from the release
[04:38] <Kamion> (the mozilla-firefox crash)
[04:44] <mdz> I'm happy to leave the cloops alone
[04:44] <mdz> it's late
[04:44] <Kamion> you're telling me
[04:44] <mdz> rsyncing
[04:45] <Kamion> on the upside I think I can rescue the Debian powerpc 2.4 kernels, having been hacking while waiting for builds
[04:49] <farruinn> 2.4 kernel?
[04:49] <Kamion> farruinn: Debian, not Ubuntu
[04:49] <Kamion> mdz: new live CDs up too
[04:50] <mdz> getting those too
[04:50] <farruinn> I think that's really great that so many Ubuntu devs work on Debian as well
[04:51] <mdz> I think it would be great if I had an extra 4 hours every day :-)
[04:51] <Kamion> if you find out how, let me know
[04:51] <Kamion> I'm on serious borrowed time today :-) - I may not be particularly active tomorrow
[04:53] <mdz> next priority is kubuntu, hopefully that won't take much more prodding
[04:54] <Kamion> right, hope not
[04:54] <geppy> linux-headers-2.6.10-4-386 is broken
[04:55] <geppy> It tries to make the symlink /usr/src/linux in whatever folder you happen to be in when you run apt-get
[04:55] <geppy> so it fails, unless you happen to be in /usr/src
[04:55] <geppy> which is pretty unlikely
[04:55] <thully> cool, kubuntu has been one thing I've been really looking forward to (as I normally use KDE instead of GNOME on other distros)
[04:55] <geppy> That's the only problem, though.  Moving the incorrectly placed symlink to the right directory fixes everything.
[04:57] <thully> I had an interesting issue when dumping ISO images of Array 5 from burned CDs - if I executed the "eject" command immediately after "cp /dev/hdc hoary-install-i386.iso" finished, my machine locked solid
[04:57] <mdz> thully: you filed a bug about that less than an hour ago
[04:58] <thully> Well - I just thought I would mention it here - didn't know if you saw the bug report yet
[04:59] <mdz> in general, a bug report is sufficient
[04:59] <mdz> whether or not we see it within an hour
[04:59] <Kamion> mdz trawls ubuntu-bugs with considerable diligence
[04:59] <farruinn> and the mailing list...
[04:59] <thully> OK - I just thought I'd mention it because it was a crash issue
[04:59] <Kamion> others of us keep an eye on it as well
[05:02] <thully> Sorry about this, I just thought it may be worth mentioning because it was so strange and it caused the system to crash 
[05:02] <geppy> Anyone want to fix that linux-headers package?  It's a one-line fix =P
[05:04] <Kamion> geppy|waiting_fo: linux-headers-2.6.10-4-386 does not even have a postinst script, so I don't see how it could be creating such a symlink
[05:04] <Kamion> and the very existence of a /usr/src/linux symlink at all is broken
[05:04] <geppy|away> Kamion: well, perhaps it's a module-assistant thing
[05:05] <geppy|away> Kamion: But module-assistant was installing linux-headers-2.6.10-4-386, and the install failed, because the linux-headers-2.6.10-4-386 couldn't create the symlink
[05:05] <Kamion> module-assistant might well be broken, but we don't support it
[05:05] <Kamion> module-assistant | 0.6.8ubuntu1 | hoary/universe | source, all
[05:05] <geppy|away> right
[05:05] <geppy|away> But it was the linux-headers-2.6.10-4-386 package that was trying to create the symlink
[05:06] <Kamion> please quote the exact error message, not a paraphrase, thanks
[05:06] <geppy|away> Kamion:  I've since rebooted, but it was pretty much 'unable to create symlink'
[05:06] <geppy|away> sorry
[05:06] <geppy|away> try installing it yourself, see if it complains?
[05:07] <Kamion> it is 4am here and I'm rather busy doing a Hoary milestone release
[05:07] <geppy|away> ah, apologies
[05:07] <geppy|away> By all means, resume your work.
[05:07] <Kamion> so not really right now, especially if it involves installing stuff from universe :)
[05:07] <geppy|away> =)
[05:08] <zul> module-assitant? never heard of it
[05:09] <geppy|away> zul:  It's handy for compiling modules;  I use it for realtime-lsm
[05:09] <zul> hmmm...oh well not in main
[05:09] <geppy> heh
[05:10] <Kamion> haggai did fix module-assistant up for Ubuntu kernel packages a while ago
[05:10] <geppy> Kamion:  I don't think that it's module-assistant, though
[05:11] <geppy> Karmion: it was the headers package that failed:  I was just randomly mentioning that module-assistant called apt-get
[05:12] <geppy> well, I fixed it for myself, anyway, I'm done here
[05:12] <Kamion> I've read the code of the headers package and cannot see how that could happen
[05:12] <Kamion> linux-headers-2.6.10-4 actually has a postinst, unlike linux-headers-2.6.10-4-386, but it chdirs to /usr/src before doing anything much
[05:13] <Kamion> I'm trying with linux-headers-2.6.10-4-powerpc; it should make no difference
[05:13] <zul> night...thanks Kamion for the cd stuff :)
[05:13] <zul> night mdz 
[05:13] <geppy> Kamion:  Hrm, it could've been linux-headers-2.6.10-4;  I'll try uninstalling and reinstalling, I guess, seeing if it doesn't work again
[05:14] <Kamion> like I say, exact error message would mean I could just grep for it rather than guessing
[05:14] <geppy> Right.
[05:14] <geppy> Understood.
[05:15] <geppy> well, it doesn't seem to be giving me the error anymore, despite me having removed the symlink, et cetera
[05:15] <mdz> zul: night
[05:15] <geppy> sorry for wasting your time
[05:17] <Kamion> amd64 installed successfully, i386 about to enter second stage, powerpc box still busy burning CDs
[05:20] <mdz> Kamion: CD didn't eject on my amd64 install
[05:20] <mdz> it was still mounted
[05:21] <elmo> moo
[05:21] <Kamion> mdz: hm, that worked fine here
[05:21] <Kamion> server install or normal?
[05:22] <Kamion> it also worked on i386 (normal)
[05:24] <mdz> standard install
[05:24] <mdz> new keyboard logic didn't take on the live CD, but I have a feeling it'll work on the install
[05:26] <ajmitch> elmo: able to sync pnet, pnet-assemblies, pnetc in universe?
[05:27] <mdz> Kamion: I have a bad feeling that everyone is going to get a us layout on the live CD
[05:27] <mdz> Kamion: and that we'd need to rebuild xorg to fix it
[05:27] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, you seem to be right
[05:28] <Kamion> why the rebuild?
[05:28] <mdz> I suppose I could hack around it in casper
[05:29] <mdz> but the bug is in xserver-xorg.config
[05:29] <Kamion> do you not copy over debian-installer/keymap?
[05:29] <Kamion> doing a GET on that returns blank here
[05:29] <mdz> I don't copy anything, but passthrough should handle that, no?
[05:30] <lamont> Kamion: so when I push the kubuntu livecd script, it's going to change the cloop names... do we want to coordinate that?
[05:30] <Kamion> not on a GET
[05:30] <mdz> oh
[05:30] <Kamion> as far as I can tell
[05:30] <mdz> I guessed it was the 'seen' flag stuff which was busticated
[05:30] <mdz> db_fget xserver-xorg/config/inputdevice/keyboard/layout seen
[05:30] <mdz> if [ "$RET" = "false" ] ; then
[05:30] <Kamion> passthrough is a means for using another debconf instance as a frontend; but GET communicates with the backend, not the frontend
[05:30] <mdz> I have no idea why it does that
[05:31] <mdz> daniels: ?
[05:31] <Kamion> daniels said he'd be away house-hunting for most of today, although SMSable at need
[05:32] <Kamion> mdz: I imagine that allows for preseeding
[05:32] <Kamion> mdz: any logs that would indicate what happened to the eject?
[05:33] <ajmitch> bbl
[05:33] <Kamion> lamont: please, sometime tomorrow :)
[05:34] <mdz> Kamion: oh, it ejects _after_ you continue?  isn't that backwards?
[05:34] <Kamion> er, that was "please coordinate, yes", not so much "please tomorrow" :)
[05:34] <Kamion> mdz: I get bug reports either way, I can't win
[05:34] <mdz> Kamion: what's the complaint about the other way?
[05:34] <Kamion> mdz: the other way, I got bug reports about people who'd left their machine on its side and the CD ejected and fell out on the floor
[05:34] <mdz> that's their own bloody fault
[05:34] <lamont> Kamion: OK.  I should be online around 1300 UTC, we should coordinate a swap then, and I can kick the kubuntu livecd build into existance then.  Assuming mdz is OK with the extra few hours...
[05:34] <Kamion> I tend to agree, but they ranted *shrug*
[05:35] <lamont> Kamion: speaking of which, why are you still awake?
[05:35] <mdz> drives designed to be used that way have little clips for that purpose
[05:35] <mdz> lamont: array 6
[05:35] <Kamion> lamont: because array CD 6 is not yet done
[05:35] <mdz> honestly, the other way is correct
[05:35] <Kamion> I can certainly change it back if you'll back that up during preview freeze
[05:35] <mdz> currently, it's a race to pull the CD out after it ejects and before the tray gets sucked back in
[05:35] <mdz> certainly
[05:36] <Kamion> yeah, that is certainly a problem ...
[05:36] <lupusBE> daniels, I found the cause : http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7123 hf I'm going to bed :)
[05:36] <Kamion> actually it's even more amusing on automatic installs :)
[05:36] <lamont> Kamion: when the cd falls on the floor, it stays ejected, after all.. :-)
[05:37] <mdz> Kamion: so is there a simple way for me to copy over the keymap value in casper?
[05:37] <lamont> anything I can do to help things along, other than shutting up and such?
[05:37] <mdz> assuming we can confirm that is the problem
[05:37] <Kamion> mdz: look at one of apt-setup-udeb or initial-setup-udeb, I think
[05:37] <Kamion> it's not necessarily "simple" but it works; sadly debconf-copydb does not yet work in d-i
[05:37] <Kamion> (debconf-copydb would be the right answer, long-term)
[05:37] <Kamion> I get the correct keymap on install
[05:38] <mdz> ah, chroot debconf(1)
[05:38] <Kamion> lamont: if you feel like testing, that'd be good, but I don't think I'm going to be rebuilding anything bar dire emergency
[05:38] <mdz> yeah, I do too
[05:38] <mdz> for the first time ever
[05:38] <Kamion> hooray
[05:40] <Kamion> i386 install good, powerpc in archive-copier
[05:41] <mdz> Kamion: do I need to specify a real package as the owner when doing this?
[05:42] <Kamion> 'd-i' is traditional
[05:42] <mdz> even in the target system?
[05:44] <Kamion> yes, that's what base-config does
[05:44] <Kamion> the owner is basically a garbage-collection token
[05:45] <Kamion> hm, it would be nice to have a more fine-grained progress bar in apt-setup-udeb, so that it looks like it's actually doing something
[05:46] <Kamion> and there's a bit where it's running apt-cdrom that needs another progress bar (bit awkward for it to be the same one)
[05:47] <mdz> casper 0.47 uploaded
[05:47] <mdz> Kamion: base-config seems to set -o base-config, which is why I asked
[05:48] <Kamion> mdz: where does it do that?
[05:49] <mdz> jeffm [to mdz] : not sure if you ever incorporated my macio hotplug patches, but they're in -mm now
[05:49] <mdz> jeffm [to mdz] : well, apart from one fix, they've got benh's blessing
[05:49] <Kamion> cool
[05:49] <mdz> too late for hoary, I think, unfortunately
[05:50] <Kamion> sorry I dropped the ball on that one
[05:50] <mdz> it was a low priority
[05:51] <mdz> you had better things to do :-)
[05:51] <mdz> I'm glad it has its hooks in upstraem
[05:51] <mdz> upstream
[05:51] <Kamion> hm, I should time this kickstart install
[05:51] <mdz> elmo: if you could bless kubuntu-live, since you happen to be around...
[05:53] <lamont>    599750656 100%   15.83MB/s    0:00:36  (2, 58.3% of 12)
[05:53] <lamont> that's a bit better.
[05:53] <lamont> just wish I had that size pipe to the internet. :-(
[05:53] <Kamion> c. 100 seconds from boot to installing base system
[05:54] <mdz> Kamion: we should do something about that RECOMMENDED BUT WILL NOT BE INSTALLED
[05:54] <lamont> Kamion: which images are worth me downloading now, and which ones are you regenerating?
[05:55] <Kamion> mdz: I'm already using --without-recommends ...
[05:55] <mdz> Kamion: on the language packs?
[05:55] <Kamion> lamont: anything in daily/current/ or daily-live/current/
[05:55] <mdz> I have no idea if that suppresses it or not
[05:55] <lamont> Kamion: are you just regnerating live or install or both?
[05:55] <Kamion>                 DEBIAN_PRIORITY=high aptitude --without-recommends -y \
[05:55] <Kamion>                         install "language-pack-$lp" || true
[05:55] <Kamion> lamont: no intention of regenerating anything else
[05:55] <lamont> woot
[05:56] <mdz> Kamion: no?
[05:56] <farruinn> Kamion: do you know offhand if the initrd on B&W G3's is working with recent hoary install cds?
[05:56] <mdz> you don't think we should fix this keymap thing on the live CD?
[05:56] <farruinn> if not I could test
[05:56] <Kamion> hm, I suppose
[05:57] <Kamion> farruinn: not offhand, no
[05:57] <mdz> fix is uploaded, not built yet
[05:57] <Kamion> but that means staying up 'til 6am or something
[05:57] <mdz> I could do a followup release of the live CD
[05:57] <mdz> though I don't know how to work the publishing bits
[05:58] <Kamion> it should probably be dropped into the same directory
[05:58] <mdz> a by-hand sort of thing anyway, then?
[05:58] <Kamion> that's how it works anyway
[05:58] <Kamion> you publish daily, then you publish daily-live over the top of it :)
[05:58] <Kamion> anyway, I'll just stay up, I think the night's pretty much dead anyway
[05:59] <Kamion> have you tested the casper change?
[05:59] <mdz> I faked it
[05:59] <Kamion> ok
[05:59] <mdz> I'm going to do a proper test now, but I didn't wait before uploading it
[06:00] <mdz> it's 95% cut-and-paste from apt-setup-udeb
[06:00] <mdz> oh, hell
[06:01] <Kamion> ?
[06:01] <mdz> there was a bug
[06:02] <Kamion> from the timestamp here it probably missed cron.hourly
[06:02] <Kamion> this sort of thing is why separate daily and daily-live is useful, btw :-)
[06:02] <mdz> -rw-rw----  1 mdz mdz 302 2005-03-03 05:03 casper_0.48_source.upload
[06:02] <Kamion> s/useful/still useful/
[06:03] <Kamion> powerpc install good
[06:03] <mdz> Kamion: honestly, all I care about is that they get published together
[06:03] <Kamion> you mean in /daily/?
[06:03] <Kamion> or releases?
[06:03] <mdz> daily
[06:03] <Kamion> hm
[06:04] <mdz> that's what my babbling about joining them was about
[06:04] <Kamion> I suppose I could hardlink images around or something, if you were only building one
[06:04] <Kamion> yes, I know
[06:04] <mdz> amd64 and powerpc installs successful here
[06:04] <Kamion> it's still tricky to support a partial build
[06:04] <jdub> hey hey hey
[06:04] <mdz> amd64, powerpc and i386 installs successful, modulo keymap bug
[06:04] <Kamion> 12:20 from boot to first reboot, kickstart
[06:04] <mdz> jdub: you're just in time to help test
[06:04] <jdub> rock
[06:04] <Kamion> need a faster machine for that test :)
[06:05] <jdub> how's 6?
[06:05] <jdub> should i sync against current daily?
[06:05] <Kamion> getting close to living up to its name in terms of am GMT
[06:05] <Kamion> jdub: yes please
[06:06] <jdub> talk went well
[06:06] <jdub> got a great response
[06:06] <lamont> keymap affects live or install or both?
[06:06] <Kamion> lamont: live only
[06:06] <lamont> ok
[06:06] <Kamion> keymap worked sensibly on powerpc install too
[06:07] <lamont> ia64 live went poof?
[06:07] <Kamion> uh, except it gave me pc105/gb on powerpc
[06:07] <Kamion> no macintosh model or anything
[06:07] <mdz> did that actually work?
[06:07] <Kamion> appears to have done
[06:08] <Kamion> I bet some stuff is weird that I'm too tired to notice right now
[06:08] <Kamion> probably affects non-gb people more
[06:08] <lamont> mdz: I withdraw my comment about ia64 live.
[06:08] <Kamion> but they were getting an incorrect keymap beforehand :P
[06:08] <lamont> it's ETHOMBOT
[06:08] <Kamion> yes, mozilla-firefox crash
[06:08] <lamont> yep
[06:11] <Kamion> mdz: will you be able to test the new lives? I'll probably only be able to manage i386, I'd prefer to spend the time writing the release announcement
[06:11] <mdz> Kamion: yes, I will
[06:11] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[06:12] <mdz> testing the latest casper fix now
[06:13] <mdz> didn't seem te work
[06:13] <mdz> to
[06:13] <jdub> mdz: 'te' is a bit irish, easier for Kamion to understand
[06:13] <jdub> hrm, harsh rsyncage
[06:14] <mdz> that would be really funny if we weren't trying to make a release happen
[06:15] <mdz> Kamion: you really don't want to stay up for this
[06:15] <mdz> it's going to be a long night even for me, I think
[06:16] <Kamion> I expect to be back around 9am, since Kinnison's working from my place tomorrow, although I may nap during the morning
[06:16] <Kamion> shall I just do the announcement as soon as I get back?
[06:17] <Kamion> kickstart install: 24:45 start to finish, one piece of interaction for X video modes
[06:17] <Kamion> would be nice to speed that up
[06:19] <mdz> I faked the test a bit too hard
[06:20] <mdz> ok, 0.49 has a rather better chance of working
[06:21] <mdz> Kamion: if you really want to wait and do a joint live/install announcement, I guess
[06:23] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, it would be nicer
[06:23] <Kamion> I'll disable the normal daily cron jobs
[06:23] <mdz> I'll hopefully have tested live images within an hour
[06:23] <mdz> I'll email
[06:27] <lamont> mdz: 7109 - doesn't affect hoary (file order is good) - do we want to downgrade that and just leave it for the next emacs21 upload?
[06:28] <mdz> it'd save me an hour of waiting for the archive to receive it
[06:28] <lamont> how clean is the build environment?
[06:29] <mdz> it's an arch: all package which does little more than dh_install; the build environment is all but irrelevant
[06:29] <lamont> I would leave that decision up to the CTO then. :-)
[06:29] <mdz> I'm not sure that I could live with myself
[06:30] <lamont> I know what you'd do to me if _I_ did it... :-)
[06:32] <mdz> accepted at 0525
[06:32] <mdz> when will it be where little can sync it?
[06:32] <lamont> 0533 source hits the buildds, shortly thereafter it'll get uploaded.  If you just want the .deb early, I can publish it on the buildd for you to grab from little
[06:33] <lamont> otherwise, 0603 it'll hit jackass in .deb form
[06:33] <mdz> workrave is pissed anyway
[06:33] <mdz> back at ~0603
[06:54] <crimsun> if anyone's around, I have two lintian questions: 1) how critical is the "binary-without-manpage" warning, and 2) how critical is the error "menu-icon-too-big"?
[06:54] <Kamion> binary-without-manpage is something you should fix at some point, but it isn't immediately urgent.
[06:55] <Kamion> menu-icon-too-big, dunno.
[06:55] <crimsun> ok. The latter error is: ... 48x48 > 32x32
[06:55] <Kamion> I suspect some menu implementations would have trouble with the icon in that case. Try running lintian-info over the output./
[06:56] <Kamion> see /usr/share/doc/menu/html/ch3.html#s3.7
[06:59] <crimsun> thanks.
[06:59] <crimsun> hmm, interesting. mozilla-firefox also has that error.
[07:01] <froud> thom: don't worry about the OMF categories patch. It has already been done. Thanks.
[07:04] <lamont> printer PSC-2400 now printing PSC-2400-27.  enabled since Jan 01 00:00
[07:04] <lamont>         USB port busy; will retry in 30 seconds...
[07:04] <lamont> damn USB priters
[07:05] <mdz> hmm, no casper 0.49 yet
[07:05] <mdz> built at 0537
[07:06] <lamont> Mar  3 05:40:02 buildd-mail: casper has been installed; removing from upload dir
[07:06] <Kamion> mdz: it's there on jackass, probably just mirroring
[07:06] <lamont> and installed at 0540
[07:06] <lamont> wb hasn't finished yet, so it may or may not be in the packages files on jackass either
[07:06] <lamont> wb updated done
[07:06] <lamont> depending on where you sync from, it's good
[07:07] <mdz> syncing again
[07:07] <Kamion> not yet
[07:07] <Kamion> we sync from auckland
[07:08] <pvh> Is there any way to get more changelog info from an update than "sync with upstream"?
[07:08] <Kamion> mdz: synced, go for it
[07:08] <mdz> pvh: yes, by reading the previous entries in the changelog
[07:08] <pvh> mdz: Ahh!
[07:09] <pvh> mdz: Synaptic filters out the rest by default.
[07:09] <pvh> mdz: Or so I conclude from my scant evidence.
[07:09] <mdz> ok, cron.daily-live running
[07:09] <Kamion> i386 server install's good
[07:09] <pvh> mdz: Thank yo.
[07:09] <Kamion> I'm going to catch some sleep; back ~0900 probably
[07:10] <Kamion> I have the release announcement written
[07:10] <lamont> interesting... after I run xsane, I have to stop/start (or maybe just restart?) hpoj
[07:10] <lamont> before cupsys can see the printer again
[07:11] <Kamion> http://riva.ucam.org/~cjwatson/tmp/array-cd-6 if anyone wants to proofread / suggest other stuff / whatever
[07:11] <mdz> night, Kamion
[07:11] <mdz> lamont: daniels has the same problem with his psc
[07:13] <lamont> ah, good. known then
[07:36] <lamont> bouncey stub
[07:37] <mdz> live CDs check out
[07:37] <stub> resetting my sessions so update notifier starts as expected  - could be a problem for hoary upgraders
[07:43] <pitti> Morning
[07:45] <froud> mdz: ok I have the omf/scrollkeeper stuff working. I'm now just waiting for enrico do fix his packaging stuff to include proper registration. On my system I can see the About Ubuntu and Release Notes
[07:50] <lamont> definitely should go into town tomorrow to fetch images
[07:51] <lamont> mdz: you need anything else from me before I fall into bed?
[08:26] <daniels> mdz: pong
[08:46] <mdz> lamont: nope
[08:46] <mdz> froud: sounds good
[08:47] <mdz> daniels: why does xserver-xorg.config check the seen flag on the keyboard question?
[08:48] <daniels> mdz: to decide if we should use what's already there (what the user selected), or detect it again
[08:48] <daniels> mdz: to be honest, xserver-xorg is pretty fucked in a couple of places in terms of that sort of thing because probing screwed things up a bit
[08:49] <daniels> mdz: luckily the damage is largely confined, but I need to go through that at some stage
[09:00] <dholbach> goood morning
[09:00] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[09:00] <pitti> mdz: do you want to review security changes to hoary from now on? because of preview freeze?
[09:01] <dholbach> hai pitti
[09:35] <pitti> daniels: here?
[09:36] <Alessio> sorry, what's Matthias Urlichs's nickname?
[09:37] <pitti> Alessio: smurfix
[09:37] <sabdfl> smurfix
[09:37] <dholbach> Alessio: smurfix
[09:37] <Alessio> tx :)
[09:37] <sabdfl> morning all
[09:37] <Alessio> morning all
[09:37] <dholbach> good morning sabdfl 
[09:39] <pitti> hi sabdfl 
[09:39] <sabdfl> pitti!
[09:49] <amu> elmo: please sync libassuan
[09:50] <amu> hi sabdfl 
[09:50] <sabdfl> hey amu
[09:52] <doko> amu: elmo currently is in UTC+6(?) timezone ...
[10:08] <pitti> Kamion: do you have time for an USN review?
[10:10] <pitti> jdub: ping
[10:16] <Kamion> pitti: I'm not sane enough for a USN review right now :)
[10:16] <pitti> Kamion: trouble with array6? :-)
[10:16] <pitti> Kamion: no worries, as soon as I catch daniels or jdub, I ask them
[10:17] <Kamion> pitti: array-6 going out in just a moment
[10:17] <pitti> cool
[10:17] <pitti> Kamion: btw, you _did_ sleep a bit tonight, did you?
[10:19] <Kamion> pitti: about two hours
[10:19] <pitti> D'oh
[10:19] <jordi> Kamion: duude :(
[10:21] <Kamion> Debian powerpc 2.4 kernels going to hell in a handbasket didn't help; still trying to sort that out
[10:25] <pitti> Moin doko
[10:26] <doko> just a reboot, testing different ISDN setups ;)
[10:49] <thom> froud: it's on the list, i sent it last night *shrug*
[10:57] <seb128> are uploads still frozen for array 6 ?
[11:00] <Kamion> seb128: no; we're in preview freeze now though
[11:01] <daniels> Kamion: congratulations :)
[11:01] <Keybuk> seb128: how come the jimmac cursor theme was dropped?
[11:03] <seb128> Kamion: new vte with a bunch of interesting patches in it, we want it :)
[11:03] <seb128> Keybuk: ask jdub: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6172
[11:04] <mvo> seb128: is a changelog of the vte changes available?
[11:05] <Keybuk> jdub: same question to you, Number Two. :p
[11:06] <seb128> mvo: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/vte/0.11/vte-0.11.12.news
[11:06] <mvo> seb128: thanks!
[11:06] <seb128> np
[11:13] <Kamion> thom: around to sort out array 6 torrents?
[11:15] <Kamion> I'm just generating the metafiles now
[11:16] <mvo> hi rburton 
[11:17] <rburton> hi mvo 
[11:17] <froud> mvo: any news from michael
[11:18] <mvo> rburton: I checked g-a-i and synaptic on debian yesterday and can reproduce the hang. but only on debian with python2.3. have you tried to run it with python2.4?
[11:18] <rburton> nope
[11:18] <rburton> typical :/
[11:18] <mvo> rburton: could you please :) ?
[11:18] <mvo> froud: no news yet
[11:18] <mvo> rburton: not sure it fixes it, but it may be worth a try :)
[11:18] <froud> mvo: :-( me neither
[11:19] <mvo> froud: I'll let you know as soon as I hear something from him
[11:20] <froud> mvo: cool
[11:20] <froud> mvo: do you think we can get the docs for update-manager into release on time
[11:20] <froud> mvo: or is this going to be for grumpy
[11:22] <Kamion> thom: torrents generated, syncing to mirrors
[11:23] <thom> Kamion: cool
[11:24] <mvo> froud: I think we can, we have some time until hoary-final and doc updates should be ok
[11:24] <froud> ok
[11:24] <mvo> froud: we don't need too much stuff, just some basic documentation is enought for the start I think
[11:25] <froud> mvo: that's fine
[11:37] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I loved the discussion on debian-devel between you, doogie and me. :)
[11:37] <Keybuk> yeah, taht was fun
[11:43] <ogra> bradb: ping
[11:46] <sivang> good brunch all :)
[11:48] <mvo> Keybuk: is the "error-reporting" diff I send you in one of your arch branches? I would like to answer "Henning Glawe" on d-d but I don't want to make false statements
[11:49] <Keybuk> error reporting diff?
[11:49] <Keybuk> got a msg-id/bug#/patch name?
[11:50] <Keybuk> I thought you'd only sent me status-fd so far
[11:50] <thom> seb128: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169051 was what i was seeing with nautilus last night
[11:51] <mvo> Keybuk: yes, that was what I wanted to say :)
[11:51] <mvo> Keybuk: and it also reports errors 
[11:51] <Keybuk> no, it isn't in any of my branches yet
[11:52] <Keybuk> could you file a wishlist bug in Debian's bts to remind me?
[11:52] <mvo> Keybuk: sure, will do
[11:53] <Keybuk> [DPKG] [CONFFILE]  include support for conffile reporting on status-fd and useful error reporting
[11:53] <Keybuk> should do
[11:53] <seb128> thom: k
[11:55] <Keybuk> which does remind me, that I should get 1.13.1 out today
[11:55] <Keybuk> it's been sitting in my todo box for a few weeks now
[11:55] <Keybuk> if you're quick, I'll merge it in :p
[11:56] <mvo> Keybuk: I'll have to dig out the patch first, but I'll try to be quick :)
[11:56] <Keybuk> isn't it in your arch repo?
[11:56] <Keybuk> (michael.vogt@canonical.com--2004--laptop/dpkg--stable-mvo--1.10)
[11:57] <mvo> Keybuk: it is, thanks for telling me which one (I have three)
[11:57] <sivang> has anyone seen pitti?
[11:57] <enrico> hello.  does someone know how to write a OMF file so that a link to the document shows up in the default yelp page?
[11:58] <Mithrandir> daniels: btw, I can still reproduce the "Xorg asks three times on upgrade" problem.  Might be a debconf problem, as the questions are marked as seen in the debconf db.
[11:58] <thom> enrico: there should be a mail on ubuntu-doc from me about that
[11:58] <enrico> thom: /me looks for it
[11:59] <enrico> thom: there is not.  It's possibly awaiting moderation
[11:59] <thom> possible it needs moderating
[11:59] <thom> Kamion: torrents should be rocking
[11:59] <enrico> groan.  I want admin right for that list!
[11:59] <froud> thom: when did you send it
[12:00] <froud> thom: can you join #ubuntu-doc and explain it
[12:00] <thom> froud: last night
[12:00] <thom> i could just subscribe and resend, i guess
[12:00] <mvo> anyone knows about this baz error:
[12:00] <mvo> baz diff scott@netsplit.com--2005/dpkg--stable--1.10
[12:00] <mvo>     arch_valid_package_name (name, arch_maybe_archive, arch_req_package, 1)
[12:00] <mvo> PANIC: exiting on botched invariant
[12:01] <sivang> thom: are you subscribed to the list? because if not, we didn't get it 
[12:01] <froud> thom: up to you
[12:01] <Keybuk> mvo: baz diff $(baz revisions -r scott@netsplit.com--2005/dpkg--stable--1.10 | head -1)
[12:01] <Treenaks> thom: 1 IPv6-enabled peer for the torrent running :)
[12:02] <thom> sivang: no; is no-one moderating -doc?
[12:02] <Kamion> thom: bonus, thanks
[12:02] <sivang> thom: there is, but I don't think he is on right now, and have no idea when he I will see him to tell him about it
[12:04] <enrico> thom: it's moderated by jdub and john hornbeck.  The latter isn't very active anymore. 
[12:06] <thom> right, i just subscribed *mutter*
[12:09] <mvo> Keybuk: here is a new one: $baz merge scott@netsplit.com--2005/dpkg--stable--1.10--patch-11
[12:09] <mvo> * merge by delta(scott@netsplit.com--2004/dpkg--stable--1.10--patch-7,scott@netsplit.com--2005/dpkg--stable--1.10--patch-11)[/home/egon/devel/dpkg/dpkg--stable-mvo] 
[12:09] <mvo> * performing merge
[12:09] <mvo>     arch_valid_package_name (name, arch_maybe_archive, arch_req_package, 1)
[12:09] <mvo> PANIC: exiting on botched invariant
[12:10] <thom> sivang, enrico, etc: it's on the list
[12:10] <Keybuk>  Go Bazaar, It's Your Birthday
[12:10] <froud> thom: pls read my response
[12:10] <enrico> thom: thanks!
[12:12] <froud> thom: we have the docs being displyed in yelp but they show in the category "Other Documentation" we want them to be on the default page
[12:13] <sivang> thom: found it, sorry
[12:13] <thom> you'll need to work with seb to change how yelp categorises stuff then
[12:13] <froud> i see
[12:14] <froud> seb128: can you help
[12:15] <mvo> Keybuk: problem solved, remvoing the pristines worked. I had to fire up tla to tell me so :)
[12:16] <Keybuk> all I did was commit, and it's been spewing "Good signature from" at me for an hour
[12:16] <Keybuk> I guess it's forgotten/lost/didn't have its ancestry
[12:16] <seb128> thom: thanks :p
[12:16] <thom> seb128: any time mate ;-)
[12:16] <sivang> froud: we need another catagory, "Ubuntu Documentation" or something
[12:16] <seb128> froud: what's the issue ?
[12:17] <froud> we have docs registered in yelp
[12:17] <mvo> Keybuk: haha
[12:17] <sivang> seb128: we need another toplevel catagory in scrollkeepr_cl.xml probably, so the docs would be accessible from there.
[12:17] <sivang> seb128: (from my poor understanding)
[12:17] <seb128> any patch is welcome
[12:17] <mvo> Keybuk: it's good to know that I'm not the only one having trouble with it sometimes
[12:18] <froud> seb howto do it
[12:18] <seb128> no idea
[12:18] <froud> seb128: we want the Ubuntu Docs to be displayed in the default yelp apge
[12:19] <sivang> froud: I think an Ubuntu Docs catagory from the main page would be best no?
[12:19] <froud> seb128: b what I see in scrollkeepr_cl.xml is not the default page listing
[12:19] <seb128> as said patches are welcome, but I'm really bug flooded and busy atm so don't count on me to do the hack today
[12:20] <froud> seb128:  so where is the default page generated from once I know this I will patch it
[12:22] <seb128> src/yelp-toc-pager.c I guess
[12:22] <sivang> froud: how do you know this is not the default page?
[12:22] <seb128>         if (!xmlStrcmp (id, "index")) {
[12:22] <seb128>             xmlNodePtr new = xmlNewChild (node, NULL, "toc", NULL);
[12:22] <seb128>             xmlNewNsProp (new, NULL, "id", "Man");
[12:22] <seb128>             xmlNewChild (new, NULL, "title", _("Man Pages"));
[12:22] <seb128>         }
[12:22] <seb128> 
[12:22] <seb128> that's for the Man Pages category
[12:23] <froud> seb128: that's the yelp src not the content data. ok leave it will potter aaround til we find it
[12:23] <seb128> and data/man.xml in yelp too
[01:08] <Keybuk> mvo: http://arch.netsplit.com/scott@netsplit.com--2005/dpkg--devel--1.13--patch-79
[01:08] <enrico> mdz: froud told me you asked me about the next docteam meeting
[01:08] <enrico> mdz: froud told me you asked for me about the next docteam meeting
[01:09] <mvo> Keybuk: cool, thanks!
[01:09] <enrico> mdz: We should also discuss documentation freeze dates
[01:10] <Keybuk> mvo: I used your mvo@ubuntu.com address in the ChangeLog and added a copyright line for Canonical -- I figured that's about the right way to credit that?
[01:12] <mvo> Keybuk: yes, thanks
[01:13] <Astharot> ciao
[01:13] <Kamion> amu: have you talked with anyone about promoting libjpeg-progs and libtiff-tools to main? konq-plugins and kfax respectively seem to need those
[01:14] <Kamion> now to figure out how/where to publish Kubuntu CDs ...
[01:14] <opi> Kamion: it is ready?
[01:14] <Kamion> well, they're sort of building. they won't install yet.
[01:15] <opi> Kamion: when I asked last time it was still ,,not to use on people'' state
[01:15] <Kamion> I wouldn't say "ready" as such yet, but getting there
[01:16] <Kamion> I'm only doing the cdimage side of things, I have no clue what Kubuntu itself actually looks like
[01:16] <Kamion> might move
[01:18] <amu> Kamion: those are still in universe? 
[01:19] <Kamion> amu: yeah
[01:20] <Kamion> they're the two uninstallables on a powerpc CD (well, also kdeaddons and kdegraphics, but those are just metapackages so I imagine they're the knock-on effect)
[01:24] <Keybuk> mvo: on its way into experimental now
[01:25] <Kamion> man, bootloader configuration handling in debian-cd is such a mess when you're trying to do all architectures at once
[01:26] <amu> Kamion: added those 2 packages on my todo 
[01:26] <sivang> has anyone seen seb128 ?
[01:26] <sivang> and pitti ?
[01:27] <Kamion> amu: thanks. should have initial test CDs for you in a couple of hours
[01:28] <amu> Kamion: cool, rocks
[01:28] <Kamion> although ia64 won't have the necessary preseed for a while, some other stuff to clear up there first
[01:28] <Kamion> don't imagine you care too deeply just now
[01:32] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~$ PROJECT=kubuntu CAPPROJECT=Kubuntu cron.daily
[01:32] <Kamion> hm, crap, the logs will go to the wrong place, better fix that first
[01:33] <doko> hmm, why is ubuntuforums.org allowed to post on the ubuntu-devel list?
[01:34] <ogra> doko: ...it is since ages...
[01:34] <ogra> doko: ah, no -users that is, sorry
[01:34] <amu> kvim is also in universe 
[01:35] <doko> noisy ...
[01:44] <opi> amu: http://yzis.org -- have you seen it?
[01:45] <Riddell> opi: it's not ready yet plus it needs patches to other kde  programmes
[01:45] <Riddell> opi: plus i'm not a vi user, but otherwise a good idea
[01:45] <opi> Riddell: I'm a VIm user :)
[01:46] <opi> Riddell: I'm trying to build it on Hoary now
[01:46] <ogra> where is the gtk port ?
[01:46] <opi> of yzis?
[01:46] <ogra> ;)
[01:46] <amu> opi: heh looks strange
[01:47] <opi> amu: I need to give it a spin to say how it feels :)
[01:49] <opi> with xorg, is there a -dev package with headers?
[01:50] <opi> I can't find it
[01:50] <amu> hmm it's like overkill, but there are guys around, they write their mails with mutt and use openoffice' swriter as EDITOR :)
[01:50] <opi> haha
[01:50] <opi> ;D
[01:50] <opi> But I'd love to use VIm with KMail
[01:51] <opi> VIm as KPart
[01:51] <dredg> i'd love to use evolution with vim. i tried it a couple of years ago with some hack i found.
[01:51] <dredg> the results were.. horrific
[01:53] <Kamion> opi: there're loads of -dev packages, one per library
[01:53] <opi> Kamion: I've found a meta package ;)
[01:53] <opi> Kamion: this system is a gcc virgin ;)
[01:55] <tseng> is there an "official" plan to get mono into main? GrumpyGroundhog goals talks about beagle "integrated"
[01:57] <tseng> I cant tell who added it.
[01:59] <thom> tseng: well, we need to get mono 1.{1,2} so it's available for all arches
[01:59] <thom> and if that works out i think we'll go for it
[01:59] <tseng> right
[02:00] <tseng> ok, the debian team is working on packaging and a new spec.. ill be helping get some packages updated and then merged to grumpy
[02:00] <thom> rocking
[02:01] <jdub> tseng: (bendy.)
[02:02] <tseng> bendy = hoary+1
[02:02] <tseng> ?
[02:02] <jdub> *almost* officially now
[02:02] <opi> jdub: what do you need to watch JDubTV? (except for brain damage;-)
[02:02] <jdub> totem
[02:02] <tseng> totem-gstreamer actually
[02:02] <dredg> no... totem-xine works here
[02:03] <tseng> it told me to use cvs for theora on the console.. maybe after a bit more thinking it actually does
[02:03] <opi> ok, got totem ;)
[02:04] <Treenaks> mplayer works fine, too..
[02:04] <opi> jdub: URI? :p
[02:04] <jdub> tseng: totem-xine works ok
[02:04] <jdub> opi: it's not on
[02:04] <opi> buuuu!
[02:04] <opi> ;-)
[02:04] <tseng> hey do one of you gnome dudes know if gnome-terminal has some prefix for Xdefaults
[02:04] <tseng> or do I really have to use this color wheel
[02:05] <tseng> bah not a devel question
[02:05] <sivang> tseng: mono is always using c# right ?
[02:05] <thom> sivang: no
[02:05] <opi> yup
[02:05] <tseng> how do you mean, always?
[02:05] <opi> thom: no?
[02:05] <opi> thom: ain't it .NET?
[02:05] <thom> there are stacks of languages that can target the cli
[02:06] <sivang> tseng, thom : what languages am I using to write mono programs?
[02:06] <tseng> ironpython, boo, nermele, c#, vb.net, asp.net ...
[02:06] <sivang> thom: and the resulting executable is also runnable over win32 api's ?
[02:06] <tseng> this is the point of .NET, multiple languages one runtime
[02:07] <ogra> tseng: classpath ?
[02:07] <thom> sivang: in general yes, assuming you're not using platform specific apis
[02:07] <tseng> ogra: java?
[02:07] <thom> ogra: yes, with ikvm
[02:07] <ogra> tseng: yup....as thom said
[02:07] <tseng> yeah.
[02:07] <sivang> thom: so the move in the gnome world is towards mono?
[02:07] <thom> sivang: for some people
[02:07] <tseng> the move in the miguel world is towards mono
[02:08] <ogra> sivang: the move in the ubuntu world is towards python ;)
[02:08] <rburton> sivang: gnome is sticking with C for the forseeable future
[02:08] <tseng> its just a bunch of pot stirring fud on news sites quoting miguel
[02:08] <tseng> "omg i will leave linux forever if you use .NET!!!ELEVEN"
[02:09] <thom> yeah. that kinda stuff is pretty tragic
[02:09] <tseng> its a pretty sane idea to ignore anything in a comment or written by Eugenia
[02:09] <ogra> hehe
[02:09] <tseng> stick to planet gnome :)
[02:10] <sivang> ok, noted :) just the thought of using .NET over linux is somewhat doubtful, I mean, is .NET is now an ANSI/OMG/ISO standard? 
[02:11] <sivang> (bah, /me realized this was somewhat out of line questoin and could be considered as trolling)
[02:11] <tseng> ecma
[02:11] <sivang> tseng: ah ok, good to know :)
[02:12] <thom> *aargh* kicks rpm in the head repeatedly
[02:14] <opi> thom: you need a gun for that
[02:15] <thom> pitti: did you want a backtrace of g-v-m killing itself on dbus restart?
[02:16] <pitti> thom: by all means, yes
[02:16] <thom> pitti: is there a bug for it? (i looked quickly and couldn't see one, but searching bugzilla is such a waste of time)
[02:16] <pitti> thom: none that I know of
[02:16] <thom> k
[02:16] <pitti> thom: just open a new one or mail me it
[02:17] <pitti> thanks
[02:17] <sivang> pitti: oh, glad to see you're back
[02:17] <pitti> Hi sivang; yes, was away for a bit
[02:17] <pitti> sivang: any news?
[02:17] <sivang> pitti: I had no luck using the built in function of g-c-m, I will try using plain g_spawn_sync
[02:18] <sivang> pitti: but I have more issues, will msg you
[02:18] <jdub> so the combination of adding powerpc to my mirror, and all the kde stuff in main has made mirroring slightly less fun
[02:19] <ogra> bradb: another ping
[02:19] <bradb> ogra: hi
[02:19] <jdub> haggai: more green to go with it, thanks
[02:20] <ogra> bradb: i'd like to invite you: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUMeeting
[02:20] <ogra> bradb, since we will talk about universe wrt malone
[02:20] <bradb> ogra: thanks, we discussed this on launchpad@ yesterday. i'm definitely looking forward to attending. :)
[02:21] <ogra> great, thanks :)
[02:21] <dholbach> bradb: cool
[02:22] <Treenaks> anyone know of a way to get software on a palm without the hotsync cradle?
[02:22] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: infrared
[02:22] <Mithrandir> or possibly BT on newer models
[02:23] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: I don't have any other ir devices around
[02:23] <ogra> Treenaks: with a morse taper.....hacking in 0100100011101001 etc.....?
[02:23] <dredg> Treenaks: not much use to you now, but i have a usb cable for my treo that charges and can do hotsyncs when i'm not near a cradle
[02:23] <Treenaks> ogra: yeah, good luck, morse 75k without error
[02:23] <ogra> hehe
[02:23] <Treenaks> ogra: I found a ssh client for my palm :)
[02:23] <Treenaks> ogra: but I can't get it on my palm in time
[02:24] <lamont> morning
[02:24] <ogra> Treenaks: i'll schedule the next meeting an hour later if austraila and NZ are fine with it
[02:24] <Treenaks> ogra: as someone once said, we need a rotating schedule
[02:24] <opi> when there will be a UbuntuConf in Germany? :)
[02:24] <opi> Australia's a bit far ;)
[02:25] <ogra> Treenaks: i asked extensively during the week, and everybody seemed fine
[02:25] <sivang> ogra: it's today right?
[02:25] <Treenaks> ogra: ok, I'll try to find a way.. once I have ssh on my palm it won't be a problem :)
[02:25] <ogra> opi: i thought about making up a hacking camp in summer.....
[02:26] <ogra> sivang: yup
[02:26] <Treenaks> ogra: there's debconf in july in finland
[02:26] <opi> ogra: supreb :-)
[02:26] <Treenaks> ogra: and guadec in may
[02:26] <ogra> Treenaks: finland isnt germany
[02:26] <Treenaks> ogra: guadec is in Germany
[02:26] <ogra> Treenaks: i know....
[02:26] <ogra> Treenaks: i thought more about a ubuntu specifi thing :)
[02:26] <ogra> specific even
[02:27] <ogra> camping in the eifel ....and wireless hacking....
[02:27] <ogra> we have nice camping grounds around here: http://www.grawert.net/gallery/pano/
[02:28] <Treenaks> ogra: where is "here" (city)?
[02:29] <ogra> Treenaks: between aachen and the nuerburgring....middle of nowhere.....
[02:29] <Treenaks> ogra: ah close to .nl :)
[02:29] <ogra> my village is called rohr (which actually means pipe in english *g*)
[02:30] <ogra> 500 inhabitants
[02:30] <jdub> rohr power!
[02:30] <ogra> yay
[02:30] <opi> ogra: supreb x2, we have bus to aachen! :)
[02:31] <opi> ogra: from our city 
[02:31] <ogra> its still about 70 km from there
[02:32] <sivang> Treenaks: what time is the motu meeting?
[02:32] <Treenaks> sivang: 1630utc
[02:33] <sivang> Treenaks: ok
[02:33] <ogra> sivang, https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUMeeting
[02:35] <jdub> boh
[02:35] <jdub> locales-gen running for every language-pack
[02:35] <jdub> hey seb128 
[02:36] <jdub> oh no
[02:36] <AndyFitz> g'day jdub
[02:36] <jdub> now it's doing it for language-pack-*-base
[02:36] <jdub> hey AndyFitz 
[02:36] <sivang> hey again seb128 
[02:36] <seb128> hello jdub 
[02:37] <seb128> re sivang 
[02:37] <Keybuk> hmm, that sounds like it installed those in the wrong order <g>
[02:37] <Keybuk> in fact, that definitely sounds like you got them in the wrong order
[02:37] <Keybuk> la la la la
[02:38] <jdub> so on that upgrade, it did locale gen 4 times
[02:38] <jdub> although it hasn't finished
[02:38] <jdub> and it might do it again
[02:38] <jdub> ;)
[02:38] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: is it a feature that libtool .la files include the full path of the .la files they depend on?
[02:38] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: yes.
[02:39] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: that means multiarching stuff is a lot harder than it should be, and will cause the RMs pain, I can imagine.
[02:39] <Mithrandir> but if it's intentional, it's intentional..
[02:39] <Keybuk> if you were maintainer, you could fix it :p
[02:39] <bob2> hahaha
[02:39] <Mithrandir> I would rather stab myself with a blunt spoon
[02:39] <bob2> you're so subtle at trying to offload packages, scott
[02:40] <Keybuk> bob2: shut up and fix your bugs
[02:40] <bob2> or what? you'll upload libtool in my name?
[02:40] <Keybuk> yes :p
[02:40] <bob2> and I followed up to them all already!
[02:41] <Keybuk> fancy following up one some of mine?  I have _plenty_ to go round
[02:42] <Mithrandir> *chuckle*
[02:42] <Keybuk> lamont: would you like to maintain libtool?
[02:42] <Mithrandir> lamont: but then I would have to take over his packages.
[02:43] <lamont> Keybuk: only posthumously
[02:44] <ogra> jdub: why didnt you take rburtons clearlooks package....it has far more colors....
[02:46] <jdub> ogra: 0.2.2 vs. 0.3
[02:46] <tseng> jdub: im looking in his 0.3
[02:46] <tseng> it has colors
[02:47] <jdub> but i'll chat to him about it
[02:47] <tseng> well
[02:47] <tseng> its worth at least pulling the Human varient
[02:47] <jdub> we won't be using that
[02:47] <ogra> jdub: we could say its his first motu package ;)
[02:48] <ogra> rburton: if you are interested in MOTU :)
[02:50] <rburton> what who what why?
[02:51] <rburton> jdub: yeah, i pushed 0.3 into NEW
[02:51] <rburton> lunch, bbiab
[02:52] <ogra> heh
[02:54] <svenl> mmm, is hoary's choose-mirror currently broken ? 
[02:55] <svenl> it tries to get http://${countryprefix}archive.ubuntu.com(null)/dists/hoary/Release, and fails.
[02:56] <ogra> null ??
[02:56] <svenl> well, also don't know where that comes from.
[02:56] <ogra> should be /ubuntu instead
[03:00] <svenl> mmm.
[03:03] <Kamion> svenl: d'oh
[03:03] <Kamion> that would be my fault; but countryprefix really should be getting substituted ...
[03:04] <Kamion> I'll have a look, thanks
[03:04] <zul> hey
[03:04] <svenl> Kamion: i run it by hand, do i need to call some special args to the kernel, that yaboot.conf adds ? 
[03:05] <Kamion> svenl: no, our yaboot.conf's append line is basically empty
[03:05] <svenl> Kamion: append="--" mmm, doesn't seem so. BTW, what is the -- for ? 
[03:05] <svenl> Kamion: will using yesterdays initrd work or something ? 
[03:05] <Kamion> debian-installer-utils/user-params and some magic in yaboot-installer
[03:06] <Kamion> I made that choose-mirror change on 1 March; the 1 March initrd should be fine
[03:06] <Kamion> (at least, free of that problem)
[03:12] <lamont> Kamion: when do you want to do the livecdrootfs change?
[03:12] <lamont> that is, am I free to break it now?
[03:13] <svenl> Kamion: can i fix it by hand on a running u-i system ? 
[03:13] <Kamion> lamont: go for it
[03:14] <Kamion> svenl: I honestly don't know, haven't tried it out yet, sorry
[03:14] <svenl> Kamion: no problem.
[03:15] <svenl> Kamion: netboot images are for netbooting, not for using with mini-isos :)
[03:18] <svenl> Kamion: how comes http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/daily-installer-powerpc/ shows only 20050302 and 20040224 ? 
[03:19] <Kamion> svenl: there was a period when the dailies weren't being built on powerpc due (IIRC) to the buildd in question being down
[03:19] <Kamion> it's been corrected
[03:20] <svenl> Mmm.
[03:20] <svenl> so, i have to go to the february 24 install, right ? 
[03:21] <lamont> Kamion: new cloop name will be:  ~buildd/livecd/current/livecd.{kubuntu,ubuntu}.cloop
[03:21] <lamont> 'k?
[03:21] <Kamion> svenl: guess so, or wait for me to fix it :)
[03:21] <lamont> likewise for manifest
[03:22] <Kamion> lamont: updated
[03:22] <Kamion> so not livecd-current any more?
[03:23] <lamont> well, that link has been alive but depricated for a while now.. :-)
[03:23] <lamont> there was directory bloat, but I'd already given you the name
[03:23] <AndyFitz> night all
[03:23] <lamont> seemed a shame to make you change, so I made the link stay valid
[03:24] <lamont> since you have to change anyway, figured I'd retire it.
[03:24] <Kamion> well the livecd.ubuntu.cloop name is new, by the looks of it
[03:24] <Kamion> but yeah
[03:25] <Kamion> lamont: I've made it grab livecd.$PROJECT.cloop, so with a bit of luck Kubuntu live CDs will just work
[03:25] <lamont> awesome
[03:25] <lamont> and manifest? :-)
[03:26] <Kamion> same
[03:27] <Kamion> svenl: yow, segfault here, I guess I was tired when I wrote that code ...
[03:27] <svenl> Kamion: :)
[03:28] <opi> svenl: :)
[03:37] <daniels> Mithrandir: just for modes, right?
[03:40] <Mithrandir> daniels: no, mouse probing and everything
[03:41] <pitti> Morning lamont
[03:42] <Kamion> weirdness, it's doing a GET mirror/ftp/countries
[03:42] <Kamion> despite the protocol being http
[03:45] <daniels> Mithrandir: *grunt*
[03:46] <Mithrandir> daniels: note that this installation has never actually been installed as an ubuntu system, it's actually an old RH6.2 system which has been hacked and hacked and hacked, so something _might_ be a bit funky somewhere.
[03:46] <Mithrandir> daniels: also, xorg.conf has been changed, so it shouldn't ask those questions anyhow
[03:47] <daniels> Mithrandir: right
[03:48] <mvo> Kamion: just finished a testinstall of array-6 works like a charm here on my test-machine :)
[03:48] <Kamion> cool
[03:49] <mvo> Kamion: oh, I just noticed that my keyboard under X is us, under the console de. I installed with language english, but keyboard german. should I report this against as bug against X?
[03:52] <Kamion> mvo: yes please, that's supposed to be fixed now
[03:53] <Kamion> hmm, choose-mirror.templates is a bit hosed in places, I wonder if that has something to do with it
[03:53] <Riddell> how do I start gnome?  (equivalent of startkde)
[03:53] <Treenaks> Riddell: gnome-session ?
[03:55] <jbailey> Kamion: The hack I did for getting initrd-tools to set RESUME automatically relies on the swap partition being mounted at the time. (I'm parsing /proc/swaps) - svenl did an install and it wasn't set.  Is swap not mounted during the install?
[03:56] <Riddell> hmm "gnome-session: you're already running a session manager"  running in a chroot in Xnest
[03:56] <Treenaks> Riddell: clean your environment?
[03:56] <svenl> I have a swap entry in /target/etc/fstab
[03:56] <Riddell> Treenaks: how do I do that?
[03:57] <Treenaks> Riddell: I don't know, it's your environment
[03:57] <jdub> Riddell: look at the output of export :)
[03:57] <svenl> jbailey: i am not sure swap is enabled during base-install.
[03:57] <Kamion> jbailey: it should be, the installer tries to autouse swap
[03:58] <Kamion> that's important for lowmem installs
[03:58] <jbailey> Hmm, that's what I had assumed.
[03:58] <lupusBE> daniels, can you plz look at this https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7123
[03:59] <jbailey> Kamion: Have you done a test install with array6 yet?  If yes, can you check your /etc/mkinitrd/mkinitrd.conf file to see if RESUME= is set at the bottom of it?
[03:59] <Riddell> jdub: what do you mean?
[04:00] <seb128> hum, xorg crash
[04:00] <jdub> Riddell: run export. look at the output.
[04:00] <pitti> lamont: ping
[04:01] <pitti> Kamion: are today's daily and array 6 the same images?
[04:02] <Kamion> pitti: yes
[04:02] <pitti> ah, cool
[04:02] <pitti> I accidentially downloaded the daily
[04:02] <Kamion> jbailey: I've done lots, not sure if any are still intact :)
[04:03] <Kamion> jbailey: probably easier for me to just fire off another quick amd64 install ...
[04:03] <jbailey> Unless, has anyone else here done an install off of array6, or in the last day?
[04:03] <Kamion> jbailey: I can do one easily, it's no hardship
[04:03] <Kamion> will take half an hour or so counting the CD burn
[04:03] <jbailey> Kamion: Sure.  Just that otherwise an answer might be here in 30 seconds. =)
[04:04] <Kamion> true :)
[04:04] <Kamion> actually I only need to do the first stage to answer your question
[04:05] <jbailey> Kamion: Cool, thanks.
[04:05] <jbailey> Kamion: Aside from, is it safe to do the hotplug upload without fubaring you now?
[04:05] <svenl> Kamion: on the pegasos/ubuntu install, the nobootloader message doesn't seem to find the right kernel to use.
[04:05] <Kamion> jbailey: yep, but we're in preview freeze now, you'll need to clear it with mdz/jdub
[04:05] <Kamion> svenl: hm, ok, I'll have a look and see if nobootloader needs technical branding
[04:06] <svenl> Kamion: not that it is any important, since there is no vmlinuz, but maybe you rather disable that message for hoary.
[04:06] <jbailey> Kamion: mdz asked for the patch, but I'll double check.  Thanks for the reminder.
[04:06] <Kamion> svenl: I'd like to get at least the mkvmlinuz support in for hoary, but ...
[04:06] <Kamion> jbailey: ah, ok
[04:06] <Kamion> it'd save me hassle and get me another test machine :-)
[04:06] <svenl> Kamion: ah, that would be neat.
[04:07] <svenl> Kamion: mkvmlinuz is really clean and transparent to the rest of the kernel stuff. Jens did a great job on it.
[04:07] <svenl> Am going to see if out yaboot supports 4.5MB compressed initrds now.
[04:07] <Kamion> I'm not sure I'll be able to get the mkvmlinuz package into supported now, though, let alone onto the CD; will have to talk with folks
[04:08] <svenl> Kamion: as long as the kernel-image include the support files, it should be ok.
[04:08] <Kamion> won't work during the install though without mkvmlinuz in supported
[04:08] <Kamion> although I guess you could wget it by hand
[04:10] <svenl> Kamion: yep.
[04:10] <svenl> Kamion: or preseed it or whatever.
[04:10] <Kamion> svenl: oh, in fact no vmlinuz would be why nobootloader can't find the right kernel
[04:10] <Kamion>                 kernel=`ls /target/boot/vmlinuz-2.* | sed -e 's%/target/boot/%%'`
[04:10] <svenl> Kamion: i think so too.
[04:10] <mdz> jbailey: the sg thing?
[04:10] <mdz> jbailey: if so, yes, that's fiine
[04:10] <svenl> BTW, are usernames with '-' in the name illegal ? 
[04:11] <jbailey> mdz: Thx.
[04:11] <zul> *sigh* sometimes i want to blow my brains out
[04:11] <Kamion> jbailey: swap is enabled during base installation, just checked
[04:11] <svenl> Kamion: how do you check that ? And it is enabled post-partman ? 
[04:12] <Kamion> svenl: chroot /target swapon -s
[04:12] <Kamion> yeah, partman turns it on
[04:12] <svenl> Kamion: oh ...
[04:12] <jbailey> Hmm.
[04:12] <svenl> wel, i am no more in the initrd, so ...
[04:12] <svenl> jbailey: well, yaboot can handle big initrd's so it is a grub2 issue.
[04:13] <jbailey> svenl: Is there a chance that /dev/${SWAP} doesn't exist?  I do a sanity check that it should be a block device before I put it in.
[04:13] <svenl> Mmm, would be really neater if the gige driver would not be broken.
[04:13] <svenl> jbailey: i don't know, let me check.
[04:13] <Kamion> jbailey: might be devfs versus non-devfs device names
[04:13] <jbailey> Kamion: Oh ugh.
[04:13] <jbailey> Kamion: Yeah, certainly is.
[04:14] <Kamion> jbailey: can you do a mapdevfs in the d-i initrd, or are you running entirely in /target?
[04:14] <Kamion> confirmed RESUME not set
[04:14] <jbailey> Kamion: I've just assumed that I'm running in a chroot on the target system.
[04:14] <Kamion> I'm pretty sure you will be
[04:14] <jbailey> Kamion: (my tests were basically dpkg --purge --force-depends and then reinstall)
[04:15] <Kamion> we could have base-installer fill it in for you somehow, but that's a bit ugly
[04:15] <svenl> Kamion: well, with the 2004.10.29-beta OF, yaboot from disk was perfectly able to boot the vmlinux/initrd kernel post reboot, so maybe we should just aim for that.
[04:15] <svenl> only problem is the initial boot, but i will fix that.
[04:15] <Kamion> svenl: kewl, that's excellent
[04:16] <jbailey> Kamion: I could parse /etc/fstab, too.  The logic I had was parse /proc/swaps and double check that it's really a block device.
[04:16] <svenl> Kamion: only problem may be in the ofpath stuff maybe, not sure, i don't use the generated yaboot.conf, and place it in /etc/yaboot.conf on another partition.
[04:17] <svenl> yaboot is copied from a debian partition too.
[04:17] <Kamion> jbailey: well, /etc/fstab should have been un-devfs-ed, anyway
[04:18] <jbailey> Kamion: Not for Hoayr obviously, but are you planning on udev love for after?  I have it running nicely in an initramfs.
[04:18] <Kamion> guess I could check ofpath, the monitor I'd attach to my pegasos is in use though
[04:18] <svenl> Kamion: i confirm, /target/etc/fstab was ok pre-reboot.
[04:18] <Kamion> jbailey: we are running udev, just with devfs names
[04:18] <svenl> Kamion: who needs a monitor when you have serial console :)
[04:18] <Kamion> svenl: sadly I don't, I really should ...
[04:18] <svenl> Kamion: :)
[04:19] <Kamion> jbailey: it was an easy change to go from devfs to udev but keep roughly the same pathnames; going from devfs names to traditional names was a *whole* lot more work
[04:19] <svenl> Kamion: is there a plan to remove the devfs name for post-hoary installer ? Or post-sarge for that matter ?
[04:19] <svenl> Kamion: i suppose you could use /sys or somethign for it.
[04:19] <jbailey> svenl: I don't know if Debian could do it until pre-2.6 support is removed.
[04:20] <Kamion> svenl: I'd certainly like to, but I don't really have a plan; it'll probably be a matter of gradually coming up with compatibility layers that understand both, until we can make it use either without anyone noticing
[04:20] <svenl> jbailey: etch will assuredly drop 2.6 support.
[04:20] <Kamion> jbailey: it would certainly be possible to abstract away the things that care about the differences, so that they could cope with either.
[04:20] <svenl> err pre-2.6 that is.
[04:20] <svenl> Kamion: hehe.
[04:20] <Kamion> and I think doing it that way is the easiest and best way, you get to make everything keep working rather than trying to have one giant flag day :)
[04:21] <jbailey> svenl: I'm not certain of that.  2.6 is still a sufficiently crazy target that I don't see pre-2.6 dropped in Debian for ages.  We've had the chat a few times amongst the debian-glibc folks to try and figure out what we should do with threads.
[04:22] <mdz> lamont: morning
[04:22] <pitti> Morning mdz
[04:22] <mdz> hi
[04:22] <svenl> jbailey: yes.
[04:22] <Kamion> svenl: on the Debian side, I think moving to udev to get away from the kernel code that's actually liable to be removed really soon is more important/urgent than changing the device names
[04:23] <lamont> morning mdz
[04:23] <Kamion> so I'm quite glad we've been able to do that in Ubuntu first; it should be a straightforward merge to make it happen in Debian
[04:23] <Kamion> I've been fairly careful to make my changes conditional such that d-i can still be built with or without udev
[04:24] <mdz> lamont: status of kubuntu cloop images?
[04:24] <Kamion> ha, I was about to ask that
[04:24] <lamont> mdz: top of the pile, verifying the script now.  Kamion has made his changes
[04:24] <mdz> yes, I'm pulling down his install images now
[04:25] <lamont> typing break
[04:25] <svenl> Kamion: post-sarge though, so we still have a bit of time.
[04:26] <svenl> Kamion: but yes, testing them in ubuntu first is rather nice, especially as you don't have the pre-2.6 constraints.
[04:26] <Kamion> svenl: considering that I was still finding bugs caused by the switch to udev up until a week or two ago, I'm pretty glad of that
[04:26] <svenl> Kamion: :)
[04:26] <pitti> mvo: I have the same keyboard problem, do you happen to know the bug #?
[04:27] <svenl> BTW, any chance to get a french mirror on the wanadoo/france-telecom network ?
[04:27] <svenl> where is fr.archive.ubuntu.com located anyway ? 
[04:28] <Kamion> ovh.net, whoever they are
[04:28] <Kamion> seem to be a Parisian ISP
[04:28] <svenl> i only get around 100kBps to them.
[04:28] <mdz> enrico: yes
[04:28] <mdz> enrico: we need to sync up regarding delivery of documentation for the release
[04:29] <Kamion> mdz: ok to revert that CD-ROM eject timing change we talked about yesterday? it's a change to cdrom-detect and another to prebaseconfig
[04:29] <marcin_ant> hi any "linux printing" guru here?
[04:30] <mdz> Kamion: yep
[04:30] <marcin_ant> I got a problem with hp printer
[04:30] <mdz> marcin_ant: this channel is for development discussion; #ubuntu is for support and general discussion
[04:31] <marcin_ant> mdz: so about development - it this possible that hpijs package is broken?
[04:32] <mvo> pitti: no, haven't reported it yet (and not looked into bugzilla). I'll do that now
[04:32] <marcin_ant> mdz: I installed hpijs but drivers doesn't appear in gnome-cups-manager
[04:32] <pitti> mvo: all the actually relevant bugs have been closed as duplicates of #2822
[04:32] <mdz> marcin_ant: #ubuntu, please
[04:33] <marcin_ant> mdz: ok
[04:33] <pitti> mvo: however, #2106 fits much better for this, and is something entirely different
[04:33] <seb128> pitti: g-c-m requires to be root to change settings or just to be in lpadmin ?
[04:33] <pitti> seb128: just lpadmin
[04:33] <seb128> k
[04:33] <pitti> seb128: gksudo is just for enabling/disabling cups browsing
[04:33] <seb128> I've a bug here so :p
[04:33] <seb128> my user is in lpadmin
[04:33] <mvo> pitti:  #2822 does not fit for my prolbem
[04:34] <seb128> but I've the "become administrator" menu option
[04:34] <pitti> mvo: #2106?
[04:34] <seb128> which asks for a root password
[04:34] <pitti> mvo: I will reopen this because the latest x.org 6.8.2-2 claims to fix it
[04:34] <pitti> seb128: urgh, that should use gksudo
[04:34] <seb128> pitti: that doesn't here
[04:34] <seb128> pitti: does it work on your system with the current version ?
[04:35] <seb128> Edit -> become admin
[04:35] <seb128> "Administrator (root) privilege is required.3
[04:35] <pitti> seb128: I mean, we should change it to use gksudo (not "I thought it already does")
[04:35] <seb128> "Please enter the root password to continue"
[04:35] <seb128> is asks for that
[04:35] <seb128> pitti: no, does it ask for that on your system ?
[04:35] <pitti> seb128: erm, I don't have this menu entry
[04:36] <seb128> sivang neither
[04:36] <seb128> seems that you should not get it if you are in lpadmin
[04:36] <seb128> my user is
[04:36] <seb128> but I get the option
[04:36] <seb128> I'll debug that here, thanks
[04:36] <pitti> seb128: exactly, if authentication is already sufficient (lpadmin), you won't see it
[04:37] <pitti> mvo: maybe we should just open a new bug
[04:37] <seb128> pitti: hum in fact the archive version works fine, that's sivang's patch breaking it
[04:37] <pitti> mvo: I selected German keyboard layout, but have PC104/US, you too?
[04:38] <mvo> pitti: exactly
[04:38] <mvo> pitti: console keyboard is correct
[04:38] <pitti> mvo: apart from missing unicode on consoles 2-n
[04:38] <pitti> but that's already filed
[04:40] <pitti> mvo: are you already typing a report or shall I do?
[04:40] <mvo> pitti: I don't mind, I'm not typing it right now
[04:41] <pitti> mvo: I file one
[04:41] <mvo> pitti: thanks
[04:41] <enrico> mdz: I'm here
[04:41] <sivang> pitti: I now even made my stuff work, and it cann even restart cups and I don't get any window for password whatsoever
[04:41] <enrico> mdz: we definitely need to
[04:41] <sivang> pitti: pretty odd
[04:42] <pitti> sivang: maybe you are already authenticated at this session. Great that it works now!
[04:42] <sivang> pitti: I did some changes to the arguments that gnome_cups_spawn recives
[04:42] <sivang> pitti: I hate when I have to guess to make things work :-/
[04:43] <sivang> pitti: eh probably authenticated alredy this sessoin, how do I clear my token? (I want to teste the authentication window)
[04:43] <enrico> mdz: I have noted various items I should discuss with you
[04:43] <enrico> let me know when you have some time
[04:43] <sivang> pitti: so I can smile now :)
[04:44] <mdz> enrico: would it be better to discuss at a documentation team meeting, or only the two of us?
[04:44] <pitti> mvo: #7138, in case you want to add something
[04:44] <enrico> mdz: I'll tell you the topics, you tell me where you'd like to discuss them
[04:45] <enrico> mdz: 1) Yelp or not Yelp?
[04:45] <pitti> sivang: sudo -K, then run it from the same terminal
[04:45] <enrico> mdz: 2) Freeze date for the documentation
[04:45] <svenl> Kamion: mmm, yaboot-installer doesn't do anything on pegasos, could you enable it ? 
[04:45] <enrico> mdz: 3) Post-hoary wishes from the developers
[04:45] <mdz> enrico: yelp vs. not yelp is a broader desktop issue, and should be discussed on ubuntu-devel
[04:45] <enrico> mdz: 4) How to notify us when some feature changes and we need to adjust the documentation
[04:46] <jdub> enrico: "not yelp" is crazy :)
[04:46] <mdz> enrico: 2) depends on whether we have translators for these documents, and how much time they need
[04:46] <mdz> enrico: 3) I haven't even begun to think about documentation for hoary+1 yet :-)
[04:46] <svenl> Kamion: i suppose that not running ybin when a pegasos is detected should be enough, since pegasos OF can boo yaboot directly. Maybe putting a symlink from /usr/lib/yaboot/yaboot to /boot/yaboot would be neat though. Is there a big difference between debian yaboot-installer and ubuntu's one ? 
[04:47] <enrico> jdub: froud told me that you agreed that help applications are dead and firefox would be better
[04:47] <mdz> enrico: 4) the best thing would be for documentation authors to track Hoary; we don't closely monitor feature changes which are passed on from upstream, and so notifications from us would be unreliable
[04:47] <jdub> enrico: i most certainly did not. :-)
[04:49] <sivang> pitti: thanks, joy ==> it seems that I have now left only to add the warning window about opening the port on the system, and deal with approval/cancellation and hide the menu item with the configuration is custom :-))
[04:49] <enrico> mdz: uhm... so.  It seems that 1) goes with "Yelp stays for Hoary at least"
[04:49] <enrico> mdz: that is, if it needs a long discussion here, I guess it's too late for it in the release cycle anyway
[04:50] <enrico> mdz: am I correct?
[04:50] <enrico> mdz: 2) freeze dates: when will you know something about translators?  People are asking in the list
[04:50] <Kamion> svenl: a few differences, but nothing major; mostly branding, a few small technical changes
[04:51] <jdub> enrico: the issues with yelp seemed to be either minor, easily fixable (with interest from upstream), or fairly ridiculous.
[04:51] <Kamion> svenl: where does the yaboot.conf go?
[04:51] <svenl> Kamion: can you mail me a generated yaboot.conf ? 
[04:51] <enrico> jdub: we've been working around most of them, yes.  Now we just need to figure out how to make our documentation show up in a nice place in the ToC
[04:51] <herzi> mako: how do you want to receive digital sigantures of the code of conduct? c'n'p into the email and then sign it with gpg?
[04:52] <mdz> enrico: we are definitely not getting rid of yelp; the only question is whether to use yelp for the doc team documentation.  I think that it makes sense to do so, but the issue is open for discussion as I have not even heard the full argument against it
[04:52] <jdub> enrico: shaunm is very happy to help out
[04:52] <Kamion> svenl: from a powermac, yes; from anything else, that's harder :)
[04:52] <svenl> Kamion: well, the yaboot seems to not support getting the yaboot.conf from the same dir as the yaboot binary, but this is an OF issue i am working on.
[04:52] <mdz> enrico: I will probably never know; I am not organizing translators
[04:52] <svenl> Kamion: sure, from a powermac.
[04:52] <enrico> mdz: who should I ask?
[04:52] <mdz> enrico: the only translator I can point to for certain is Adi
[04:52] <svenl> Kamion: the idea is to see if it would work here.
[04:52] <mdz> enrico: the ubuntu-translators mailing list seems like a likely place
[04:52] <enrico> mdz: noone's organizing the translators?
[04:52] <svenl> Kamion: so it currently reads from "boot-disk"/etc/yaboot.conf
[04:53] <jdub> enrico: speak to daf.
[04:53] <mdz> enrico: ideally, the documentation could be imported into rosetta, but I don't think it's ready
[04:53] <enrico> Ok, I can take care of 2, then.
[04:54] <Kamion> svenl: will do after my next Ubuntu powerpc install; I overwrote the last one I did with a Debian test
[04:54] <enrico> About 3[post-hoary] : we set up a DocteamPostHoary wiki page to do some brainstorming: it'd be nice to find some items from you people there
[04:54] <svenl> Kamion: :)
[04:55] <svenl> Kamion: actually, you could maybe plain add chrp_pegasos support to the ubuntu yaboot-installer for now ? 
[04:55] <kagou> hi
[04:55] <Kamion> mdz: ^-- ok to do so? doesn't affect macs at all
[04:55] <mdz> Kamion: sure
[04:55] <Kamion> svenl: so still running mkofboot/ybin, etc.?
[04:56] <Kamion> (for now)
[04:56] <svenl> for now.
[04:56] <mdz> amu: have you tested the kubuntu installation CD?
[04:56] <svenl> Kamion: mmm, maybe not.
[04:56] <enrico> mdz: and about the meeting, froud told me you wanted to talk with me about it?
[04:56] <svenl> Maybe i will hack on it on the debian side, and make a custom yaboot-installer and move it in the initrd.
[04:57] <mdz> enrico: as I said, I thought it would make sense to discuss these things at a doc team meeting, but if you would prefer that I talk only with you, we can do that
[04:57] <Kamion> svenl: ok, up to you, they should be compatible
[04:57] <svenl> maybe i should then check the OF version, and do the nobootloader if the version is too old or something such, not sure if this is possible.
[04:57] <svenl> Kamion: still interested in your yaboot.conf though.
[04:58] <Kamion> the Ubuntu changes to the postinst are (a) branding (b) timeout tweak if other operating systems are installed (c) add 'quiet splash' to default post-boot kernel args
[04:58] <Kamion> yup, will get that to you
[04:59] <enrico> mdz: we are definitely going to have a docteam meeting to see what to do post-quickguide
[04:59] <enrico> I think the freeze could be decided well before the meeting, though
[04:59] <mdz> enrico: the most important thing right now is to get the documentation packages into shape such that they can be installed by default
[04:59] <enrico> However, we're finishing the QuickGuide and people are getting lost not knowing what to do
[04:59] <mdz> enrico: after that, to work on the organization of documentation in yelp
[04:59] <sivang> enrico: did you managee with the installing docs into yelp?
[05:00] <svenl> Kamion: quiet splash is something that works for all kernels ? 
[05:01] <Kamion> svenl: can't remember if either/both are Ubuntu kernel tweaks, but they're certainly harmless on kernels that don't support them; they were partly advance preparation for usplash that hasn't come to completion yet
[05:01] <enrico> mdz: documentation packages are fine already.  They just lack better OMF files and registration into docbase
[05:01] <Kamion> and I think partly to shut up noisy messages from the kernel and init
[05:01] <enrico> I'll upload today's improved version
[05:02] <svenl> Kamion: ah.
[05:03] <svenl> Kamion: BTW, i could prepare a yaboot-installer from the ubuntu code, and wget it and then install it, right, since current code will not select yaboot-installer on pegasos ? 
[05:03] <enrico> sivang: docs are installed into yelp and scrollkeeper, only they show up in the "Others" category
[05:03] <Kamion> svenl: right, although I think you need to be careful not to change any debconf templates if you take the wget-and-install route
[05:03] <enrico> mdz: ok, I think I'm fine.  I'll upload these packages and start organizing the Docteam IRC meeting
[05:04] <Kamion> (because they get thrown away the next time the debconf database is saved by a new menu item, or something awkward like that)
[05:04] <sivang> enrico: ah ok
[05:04] <lamont> heh.
[05:04] <lamont> mdz: wanna do that rsync-ability bump today?>
[05:04] <svenl> Kamion: ah.
[05:04] <svenl> Kamion: anna install yaboot-installer.....udeb, right.
[05:05] <lamont> mdz: 'no' is OK too.
[05:05] <svenl> Kamion: well, i will just disable the ybin call and make it installable, should work fine for now.
[05:05] <Kamion> svenl: mmm, haven't got a new enough anna for that yet; you might just need to hack it into the initrd I'm afraid
[05:06] <enrico> mdz: about the packages: maybe ubuntu-docs should contain the .desktop file that's now in ubuntu-artwork, providing the About Ubuntu menu item?
[05:07] <mdz> lamont: let's do it as close to preview as we can
[05:07] <mdz> lamont: once we're fairly certain there aren't any more large packages to be changed
[05:07] <svenl> Kamion: ok.
[05:07] <lamont> mdz: OK
[05:07] <lamont> just have to remember to move a few more files...
[05:12] <Riddell> jdub: can we look at the applications.menu issue sometime?   it needs to get sorted
[05:14] <jdub> Riddell: yeah
[05:15] <Riddell> jdub: I don't see a way to have a single applications.menu file that everyone is happy with, I think it needs to have an xdg-applications-menu meta package and a gnome-applications-menu package with the gnome one and a kde-applications-menu package with the kde one
[05:16] <Kamion> mdz: can it be not too much later than two days before preview, so that we have time to sync up?
[05:17] <Kamion> mdz: oh, I just saw a bug with the CD-ROM not being detected, even with that udevstart change
[05:17] <Kamion> I checked and /dev/cdroms/cdrom0 is there, so it's a timing issue I think
[05:18] <jdub> Riddell: yeah, i've been thinking along similar lines
[05:18] <jdub> Riddell: distribution-menus, gnome-menus, kde-menus...
[05:20] <mdz> Kamion: yeah, I saw the same
[05:20] <mdz> the first set of CDs were working 100% in my test environment, but since then I have seen it fail to detect the CD a few times
[05:20] <Kamion> yes, likewise
[05:21] <Riddell> jdub: ok, how do we make this happen?
[05:21] <mdz> Kamion: have you re-enabled the daily cron jobs?
[05:22] <Kamion> mdz: oh, no
[05:22] <Kamion> mdz: thanks for reminding me, done now
[05:22] <Kamion> mdz: shall I cron kubuntu daily?
[05:23] <jdub> Riddell: first, let's just sort out what we want from /etc/xdg/menu/*
[05:23] <jdub> Riddell: we can worry about package changes after that
[05:25] <Riddell> jdub: I think we want it as it is but with the option to change from a gnome applications.menu to a kde applications.menu
[05:26] <jdub> Riddell: do you want to have a common layout?
[05:26] <jdub> Riddell: or do you want to use kde upstream layout?
[05:27] <Riddell> jdub: personally I'd be happy with just using the KDE layout
[05:27] <Riddell> jdub: I don't even know how to have a common layout since things like the icons don't match
[05:27] <svenl> Mmm, well, still X.org configuration problems on pegasos.
[05:27] <jdub> Riddell: ship different .directory files
[05:28] <mdz> Kamion: sure
[05:28] <jdub> Riddell: if we go for different layouts, we just have a namespacing issue
[05:28] <haggai> I think it would be best to try and combine the best of Ubuntu's changes with the default KDE layout
[05:28] <mdz> Kamion: I think we need to adjust the naming structure somehow, though
[05:29] <mdz> it's confusing enough that different versions of the same branch have the same names, but a different distribution with the name filenames and header content is more so :-)
[05:30] <svenl> Ok, worked.
[05:30] <ogra> meeting starts
[05:31] <lamont> mdz: E: Couldn't find package kubuntu-desktop
[05:32] <svenl> Kamion: mmm, my tft screen doesn't like the the default ubuntu X.org monitor specs, is this because the pegasos doesn't provide ddc/edid info in the OF ? 
[05:33] <Kamion> svenl: might be, I'm not at all familiar with how X's configuration scheme works though
[05:33] <Kamion> mdz: that's what we get for calling Kubuntu hoary as well :)
[05:33] <svenl> daniels: you there ? 
[05:34] <Riddell> jdub: so kde needs a package with must the same .directory files as gnome-menus has but using KDE icons, and applications.menu sits in it's own package
[05:34] <svenl> Kamion: removing the horizsync and vertrefresh lines, and it worked.
[05:34] <svenl> when does daniels usually show up ? He is in australian timezone.
[05:35] <jdub> Riddell: only if we went for the same layout, which i don't think we should
[05:35] <jdub> Riddell: also, i'd centralise the directory files and just change the icons
[05:35] <jdub> Riddell: but let's not do it that way :)
[05:35] <jdub> i think there's more value in using the kde upstream layout
[05:36] <Kamion> mdz: I do see the confusion though
[05:36] <haggai> hmm, and reduce the clutter of the kde upstream layout for kubuntu?
[05:36] <Riddell> so we do just want two packages with application.menus files
[05:36] <Riddell> and maybe move around some of the kde .directory files to keep haggai happy :)
[05:36] <haggai> what happens if you have both KDE & gnome installed?
[05:37] <jdub> haggai: gnome would use one, kde would use the other
[05:37] <jdub> haggai: but the .desktop files would all be the same :)
[05:37] <lamont> svenl: that's usually how daniels tells people to fix their X configs.  "if you can reprodouce the problem with horizsync and vertrefresh commented out, please tell me"
[05:37] <lamont> or words to that effect
[05:37] <haggai> jdub: so we'd have to patch them to stop them using the same file by default?
[05:38] <jdub> seems so
[05:38] <svenl> lamont: the problem is subtly different though.
[05:38] <lamont> svenl: his contention is that those lines should almost never be there
[05:39] <svenl> lamont: if they are not commented out, and since usefbdev is used, X requests a mode from radeonfb, which knows that it is not settable since it has is own DDC stuff.
[05:39] <Riddell> if we do that the whole conflicting files issue goes away but it does mean a) digging the code to find out what to change  and b) one or both of them isn't using the applications.menu file which is specified in the specification as being the file to use
[05:39] <svenl> lamont: i kinda agree with him, but it is not as easy, i had lot of experience with pegasos installs with those lines removed by default, and got lot of failures.
[05:40] <svenl> lamont: from broken KVM switches to old none-DDC compatible monitors, passing through switched of monirots.
[05:41] <Kamion> daniels' timezone has been a bit ... variable recently, he's been very busy; now would be typical sleep time for him though, of course
[05:41] <svenl> lamont: hehe.
[05:42] <svenl> Kamion: but on pmac, the HorizSync and VertRefresh are coming from the OF ddc stuff through your hacked read-edid, right ?
[05:42] <Kamion> svenl: nah, we used that temporarily pre-warty I think, but it got dropped in favour of xresprobe
[05:43] <svenl> Kamion: xresprobe ? 
[05:44] <Kamion>  Description: X Resolution Probe
[05:44] <Kamion>   xresprobe is a package that probes both laptop and DDC-compliant screens for
[05:44] <Kamion>   their standard resolutions, and returns a specifically-formatted, easy-to-parse
[05:44] <Kamion>   output.
[05:44] <mdz> lamont: it's in universe :-(
[05:44] <svenl> Kamion: do you know how it works on ppc ? 
[05:44] <mdz> elmo: ?
[05:44] <mdz> Kamion: I guess that means that the kubuntu CD is unlikely to be correct, since it won't contain kubuntu-desktop
[05:44] <Kamion> svenl: not really
[05:45] <Kamion> mdz: I use the task ;-)
[05:45] <lamont> mdz: it won't even get cloop images...
[05:45] <svenl> Kamion: its an upstream thingy ? 
[05:45] <elmo> mdz: ?
[05:45] <mdz> lamont: I meant the install CD
[05:45] <lamont> doh
[05:45] <haggai> Riddell: how about we patch to look for <gnome/kde>.menu and fall back to applications.menu?
[05:45] <mdz> elmo: do you have a moment for seed/archive resync?
[05:45] <Kamion> svenl: daniels and fabbione wrote it I believe
[05:46] <svenl> Ah ... will have to ask daniels, as fabbione is unreachable.
[05:46] <Kamion> there's an of.c for powerpc
[05:46] <mdz> elmo: we have a very few remaining kubuntu bits which need to be moved (kubuntu-desktop from universe, kubuntu-live from new)
[05:46] <haggai> Riddell: hmm, that would still be confusing for people who did something with applications.menu and wondered why nothing happened
[05:46] <Kamion> which is spiritually the same as my read-edid
[05:46] <Riddell> haggai: that sounds fair
[05:46] <Kamion> mdz: what about libjpeg-progs, libtiff-tools?
[05:46] <mdz> Kamion: I meant to ask...is there a way to configure a G4 to boot from CD by default?
[05:46] <Riddell> haggai: people shouldn't be changing applications.menu much
[05:46] <Kamion> mdz: or are those to be changed in kubuntu?
[05:46] <Kamion> mdz: I thought I suggested "nvsetenv boot-device cd:" already
[05:47] <lunitik> Ugh... no one knows? I even removed firestarter... but its UI settings are kept... the toolbar won't allow me to move it...
[05:47] <Kamion> I haven't tried that but it feels reasonable
[05:47] <mdz> Kamion: I am not aware of the issues involving those two packages
[05:47] <lunitik> (--purge and reinstall, and regular remove)
[05:47] <Kamion> mdz: look at report.html in kubuntu/daily/current/ and follow the uninstallables
[05:47] <mdz> Kamion: I remember asking, but i didn't remember your response, I'll try that
[05:47] <lunitik> ahh... wrong channel
[05:47] <svenl> Kamion: yeah, i guess the easiest way is to provide said ddc support in pegasos-OF, and document this in some errata file for now ? 
[05:47] <haggai> Riddell: hmm but if we have a kde.menu it would override applications.menu.  Should we ship without applications.menu and give that highest priority if it exists, perhaps?
[05:47] <Kamion> svenl: if there's some non-OF approach we can also take, I'm sure that would be fine too
[05:48] <haggai> Riddell: that way a user who created applications.menu would find it had an effect
[05:48] <svenl> Oh, it uses the fbdev interface ...
[05:49] <mdz> amu: ping
[05:49] <Riddell> haggai: yeah ok
[05:49] <svenl> Kamion: not sure, i think it is easier to do x86 VESA call emulation at the OF level, and provide that data, we already have an emulated vesa fb8 OF package on our TODO list.
[05:49] <amu> mdz: pong 
[05:49] <mdz> amu: we need help from you and Riddell to get the CDs in order
[05:49] <mdz> that's the priority for kubuntu right now
[05:49] <Kamion> svenl: *nod*
[05:50] <elmo> what the heck's been done  to the seeds and language packs?
[05:50] <Riddell> mdz: what needs sorted?
[05:50] <svenl> Kamion: arg, that of.c code seems to be doing some offb specific stuff.
[05:51] <Kamion> elmo: l-p-en -> l-p-en-base, l-p-en-update -> l-p-en
[05:51] <amu> mdz: so what's to do?  
[05:51] <elmo> someone who's more awake might want to work out what needs to  be done from http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/paste/kubuntu-sync.txt for kubuntu
[05:51] <Kamion> (etc.)
[05:51] <Kamion> elmo: l-p-*-update should be removed AFAIK
[05:51] <elmo> Kamion: so l-p-* can be removed ?
[05:51] <elmo> err -*-update right ;)
[05:52] <Kamion> er, yes, you can stop giving me heartattacks now :)
[05:52] <mdz> amu, Riddell: <elmo> someone who's more awake might want to work out what needs to  be done from http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/paste/kubuntu-sync.txt for kubuntu
[05:52] <mdz> amu, Riddell: also http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/current/report.html
[05:52] <Kamion> I believe that promoting libjpeg-progs and libtiff-tools to main will fix everything on report.html, although I haven't done an exhaustive check
[05:53] <Kamion> (just eyeballed it to make sure it wasn't my CD infrastructure at fault)
[05:53] <elmo> mdz: ok  to promote them, they seem harmless
[05:53] <elmo> +?
[05:53] <Mithrandir> libjpeg-progs in main would be nice anyhow, since you then get lossless rotation of jpegs.
[05:53] <mdz> elmo: libjpeg-progs and libtiff-tools, yes
[05:54] <mdz> Mithrandir: I use the -mmx variety myself
[05:54] <Mithrandir> mdz: it seems not to exist for amd64.
[05:55] <Kamion> "Rebooting into your new Ubuntu system" -> hmm, are we going to brand stuff like that (not to mention the grub boot menu) for Kubuntu? if so, how?
[05:55] <mdz> Mithrandir: sounds like a bug
[05:55] <mdz> Mithrandir: well, perhaps not
[05:55] <seb128> is the array 6 livecd supposed to work on amd64 ?
[05:55] <mdz> seb128: it worked for me
[05:56] <mdz> everything is supposed to work
[05:56] <elmo> ok, done libjpeg-blah and libtiff-blah
[05:57] <amu> I'm 15min.off, take the kid from kindergarden  
[05:57] <Mithrandir> mdz: what package is -mmx in?
[05:57] <Kamion> still a fair few bits of gnome stuff being unpacked here (python-gnome or whatever), is that known?
[05:57] <Riddell> why is kdebindings being demoted to universe?  (because it's unused?)
[05:58] <elmo> Riddell: if it's in the demote column it's not seeded and not pulled in by other stuff
[05:58] <Kamion> Riddell: I kind of hope it stays in main, it's a build-dep of libqt-perl
[05:58] <seb128> Kamion: unpackaged ?
[05:58] <svenl> Kamion: should i do a formal bug report in the bugzilla about this X.org problem ? 
[05:58] <Kamion> seb128: hm what? (this is a Kubuntu installation)
[05:58] <Kamion> svenl: sure
[05:58] <mdz> lamont: what's the procedure?
[05:58] <mdz> Mithrandir: libjpeg-mmx
[05:58] <seb128> Kamion: ups, "unpacked" I mean
[05:59] <seb128> Kamion: <Kamion> still a fair few bits of gnome stuff being unpacked here (python-gnome or whatever), is that known? 
[05:59] <Kamion> seb128: as in unpacked then configured
[05:59] <lamont> mdz: just kick a livecd rootfs build
[05:59] <mdz> Kamion: is libqt-perl seeded/germinated?
[05:59] <Kamion> seb128: I was wondering if the kubuntu guys intended all the remaining gnome packages in kubuntu to be there
[05:59] <seb128> oh, k
[05:59] <mdz> lamont: that will build both, or only kubuntu?
[05:59] <Riddell> Kamion: is libqt-perl used?
[05:59] <mdz> only kubuntu should be much faster
[05:59] <lamont> both
[06:00] <Kamion> mdz: not yet, but it's a build-dependency of debconf which I ripped out in a really hacky way but I'd like to restore
[06:00] <Riddell> Kamion: there shouldn't be any gnome packages in there
[06:00] <lamont> didn't give you a hook to build only one yet
[06:00] <Kamion> i.e. allow the debconf kde frontend to build again
[06:00] <lamont> which brings up the other question...
[06:00] <mdz> amu,Riddell: we'll also need to do a security policy check
[06:00] <mdz> amu,Riddell: currently, kubuntu-desktop pulls in openssh-server(!)
[06:00] <Kamion> Riddell: there definitely still are
[06:00] <lamont> ~buildd/livecd/current has both images in it.  if you only build one, does that mean that I need current-$PROJECT, or do we care?
[06:01] <Riddell> Kamion: ok, cool, so we need to put kdebindings on the seeds somehow
[06:01] <mdz> gnome-mime-data, libgnomevfs2-common, etc. are there at present
[06:01] <Kamion> Riddell: look for gnome in http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/kubuntu-hoary/desktop
[06:01] <mdz> python-gnome2 is in desktop
[06:01] <Kamion> Riddell: promoting kde to main might be sufficient
[06:02] <Kamion> lamont: I don't mind, but I think it might be nice to have that flexibility given that cloops take a while to build
[06:02] <Riddell> Kamion: promoting kde to main might pull in stuff we don't want
[06:02] <mdz> amu had seeded kde, but decided to do it differently
[06:02] <Kamion> Riddell: kdebindings seems like the sort of thing that should be pulled in via build-deps
[06:02] <mdz> Get:234 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com hoary/universe libkipi0 0.1-2 [97.4kB] 
[06:02] <mdz> Get:235 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com hoary/universe gwenview 1.1.8-1ubuntu3 [630kB] 
[06:02] <mdz> ^^ pulled in by kubuntu-desktop
[06:02] <svenl> yep, suspend-to-disk worked, provided mkinitrd stuff is fixed for the RESUME thingy.
[06:03] <seb128> mdz: http://pkg-gnome.alioth.debian.org/amd64.jpg
[06:03] <mdz> amu: you mentioned gwenview; what happened there?
[06:03] <seb128> mdz: I get that with the liveCD on amd64, any idea on what could be wrong ?
[06:04] <Riddell> gwenview is a KDE app incase anyone is confused by that
[06:04] <mdz> seb128: looks like a bad burn
[06:04] <Kamion> ok, this kubuntu install CD seems to have worked fine after I worked around the couple of missing dependencies
[06:04] <mdz> Riddell: yes, but it is one that was not discussed during the promotion review
[06:04] <mvo> is "Menu item 'load-cdrom' failed." a known error on the live cd? 
[06:04] <seb128> mdz: k, I'll burn it again on an another media
[06:05] <mdz> Get:335 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com hoary/universe kvim 1:6.3-046+1ubuntu4 [2586B] 
[06:05] <Kamion> mvo: not afaik, that also rather suggests a bad burn
[06:05] <mdz> Kamion: did you encounter libkipi0, gwenview or kvim?
[06:05] <mvo> Kamion: ok, I'll retry with a new cd
[06:05] <mdz> Get:352 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com hoary/universe xscreensaver-nognome 4.16-1ubuntu7 [2204B] 
[06:05] <Kamion> mdz: what, on the CD?
[06:05] <mdz> I'm just installing kubuntu-desktop on a fresh base
[06:05] <mdz> and these are the things being pulled in from universe
[06:05] <Kamion> mdz: oh, I'm installing from kubuntu/daily/current/hoary-install-i386.iso
[06:06] <Riddell> kdelibs-data depends on gnome-menus which is why there's a lot of gnome stuff in there, that will go away if I manage to sort the menus
[06:06] <seb128> ?
[06:06] <mdz> Kamion: that CD doesn't have kubuntu-desktop on it, does it
[06:06] <Kamion> mdz: no
[06:07] <mdz> so far I have 4 additional binaries
[06:07] <seb128> Riddell: oh, perhaps we should split it to a data package ?
[06:08] <Riddell> update-notifier is the other problem, can that be removed from the seed?
[06:08] <jdub> seb128: we're going to have to use independent applications.menu files
[06:08] <Kamion> where's kynaptic in the menus?
[06:08] <jdub> seb128: ie. gnome-applications.menu
[06:08] <seb128> jdub: why ? i thought we want a common menu to both desktop ?
[06:08] <jdub> seb128: nup
[06:09] <Kamion> "Root Terminal"
[06:09] <Kamion> "Terminal Program - Super User Mode"
[06:09] <Kamion> hmm
[06:09] <jdub> Kamion: we're going to kill those
[06:09] <Kamion> oh, root terminal == sudo x-terminal-emulator
[06:09] <jdub> Kamion: it runs gnome-terminal as root, which is insane
[06:10] <Kamion> although "Terminal Program - Super User Mode" wants the nonexistent root password
[06:10] <Riddell> mdz: gwenview was added not too long ago, presumably after the promotion review, does it need reviewed somehow?
[06:10] <mdz> Riddell: where was it added? what depends on it?
[06:10] <Riddell> Kamion: the whole kde and sudo issue also has to be sorted, I'll be looking at that soon
[06:10] <Riddell> mdz: kdegraphics I think
[06:11] <mdz> pitti: here?
[06:11] <pitti> mdz: yes
[06:11] <Kamion> ah, kynaptic much more comprehensible than kpackage
[06:11] <Riddell> Kamion: almost anything would be :)  kynaptic is nice but lacks a lot the synaptic has
[06:11] <sivang> back
[06:11] <mdz> pitti: I think we will need a few more last-minute security reviews for kubuntu
[06:11] <Kamion> Riddell: yeah, no repositories editor it seems
[06:12] <pitti> mdz: no problem, which packages?
[06:12] <Riddell> Kamion: exactly
[06:12] <mvo> Riddell, Kamion: i hacked a bit on kynaptic today. the biggest problem I see is that it does not have a proper install progress thing
[06:12] <pitti> mdz: gwenview?
[06:12] <Kamion> hmm. if aptitude fails, you don't get the final sources.list
[06:12] <Kamion> that seems like a base-config bug
[06:12] <amu> back
[06:13] <Kamion> cdrom://Kubuntu 5.04 _Hoary Hedgehog_ - Alpha ...
[06:13] <Kamion> hah
[06:13] <mdz> amu: kscreensaver-xsavers should be changed to depend on "xscreensaver" instead of "xscreensaver-nognome | xscreensaver"
[06:13] <mdz> amu: xscreensaver-nognome is a dummy package depending on xscreensaver
[06:14] <mdz> pitti: libkipi0 and gwenview
[06:14] <Kamion> mvo: the Packages download progress thing is ok, if a bit "erk, look at all those colourful progress bars"
[06:14] <pitti> mdz: alright
[06:14] <Kamion> which I guess is just a theming thing
[06:14] <amu> mdz: ok, i'll do it 
[06:14] <mvo> Kamion: yes, the actuall package installing is happening on the xterm/console that kynaptic was started on *ick*
[06:15] <Kamion> mvo: oh wow, so it is
[06:15] <mdz> mvo: is kynaptic actually derived from synaptic, or is it something entirely different?
[06:16] <mvo> mdz: it's a port of synaptic to kde, it uses synaptics libsynaptic 
[06:16] <mdz> oh, I didn't know about libsynaptic
[06:16] <mvo> mdz: it's a static lib :) it's only used inside synapatic and kynaptic
[06:17] <mvo> and kynaptic is only used by kubuntu so far so ...
[06:17] <Riddell> mvo: it's used by connectiva as well no?
[06:17] <mdz> mvo: so it is extremely well tested? :-)
[06:17] <mvo> mdz: I compile it once in a while to see if I broke it. I guess that's considered to be good testing ;)
[06:18] <lunitik> Riddell: they even stopped using apt4rpm/synaptic ...
[06:18] <Riddell> and now they're just mandrake anyway
[06:18] <mvo> Riddell: I don't think so, they wrote it (gustavo niemeyer). but gustavo also wrote smart, a new package manager. and the last kynaptic checkin by gustavo is 7/2004
[06:18] <lunitik> Riddell: started developing smartpm
[06:20] <mdz> smart --gui is not quite as nice as synaptic yet :-)
[06:20] <srbaker> smart?
[06:20] <mdz> srbaker: apt-cache show smartpm
[06:20] <Riddell> mvo: I'd be happy to add improvements to kynaptic but then there's the kalyxo one that might appear one day
[06:21] <pitti> mdz: I don't find any kipi plugin in the archive, so why do we need libkipi0?
[06:21] <pitti> amu: ^
[06:21] <srbaker> huh
[06:21] <srbaker> cool
[06:21] <Riddell> pitti: we don't, it was for gwenview-kipi package but that had some problems that I havn't sorted yet
[06:21] <mvo> Riddell: yes, kapture. very promissing. haven't used it yet
[06:21] <mdz> pitti: gwenview links with it
[06:21] <mdz> but only recommends kipi-plugins
[06:21] <haggai> pitti: it's needed for the digikam plugins too; even if there's a problem now I think it should be included when fixed
[06:21] <mvo> mdz: yes, smart needs a bit of gui love (and glade!)
[06:22] <mdz> Kamion: did you get my forward regarding LCA registration?  just be sure to send me your registration code when you receive it
[06:23] <Kamion> mdz: yes, thanks; I've just been too brain-fried today to do any organisation
[06:23] <lunitik> mdz: will be interesting to see if it continues development with Mandrake(or whatever they decide to be called...) though  :/
[06:24] <Kamion> today I seem to be able to handle shell scripts and testing and not a lot else
[06:24] <mvo> Riddell: doesn't konsole has a API? or a terminal class something? it would be nice if we could at least add support to install pacckages inside a terminal window in kynaptic
[06:24] <Riddell> mvo: of course, it's a kpart so you can embed it anywhere
[06:24] <Riddell> mvo: can synaptic embed a terminal?
[06:25] <mdz> Kamion: fortunately, I think that is the right level of operation today :-)
[06:25] <mvo> Riddell: oh yes, it's doing it for ages :)
[06:25] <Kamion> mdz: yes, convenient :)
[06:25] <mvo> Riddell: I'm not into kde development, where do I find a API of the konsole kpart?
[06:27] <amu> mdz: xscreensaver-nognome removed and uploaded 
[06:31] <pitti> amu, Riddell: any reason why gwenview ships a shared library in the "gwenview" package?
[06:31] <pitti> amu, Riddell: that's pretty ugly
[06:32] <Riddell> amu: because it's a kpart, you get a gwenview application and a gwenview plugin for konqueror etc
[06:32] <amu> pitti: gwenview was suuggested, as a replacement, never touch it before  
[06:32] <Riddell> s/amu/pitti/
[06:32] <pitti> Riddell: I mean, libraries shold be packaged separately
[06:33] <mdz> Riddell: what functionality does gwenview provide?
[06:33] <seb128> if the installer says that there is no default route, that's a DHCP server issue ?
[06:33] <Riddell> mvo: kdebase/konsole/konsole/konsole_part.* and for an example of use kdebase/kate/app/kateconsole.cpp
[06:33] <pitti> Riddell: http://www.de.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html
[06:33] <Kamion> amu, Riddell: what time would be most convenient for you guys to have daily CD image builds?
[06:34] <Kamion> as in time of day for a cron job
[06:34] <pitti> Riddell: if gwenview is the only package using this library, then it should live under /usr/lib/gwenview, or so
[06:34] <Riddell> mdz: it's an image viewer
[06:34] <amu> mdz: Gwenview is a simple image viewer for KDE.
[06:34] <Riddell> pitti: the library is used by gwenview and by anything else that needs an image viewing kpart (i.e. konqueror)
[06:34] <amu> Kamion: 6.00 a.m. is ok    
[06:34] <Kamion> amu: UTC?
[06:34] <amu> yep
[06:34] <pitti> Riddell: then it should definitively be packaged separately
[06:35] <Kamion> ok, I'll arrange for it to generally be finished around that time
[06:35] <pitti> Riddell: so that pacakges using it can depend on the library package (with correct SONAME)
[06:35] <mdz> lamont: kubuntu cloops are blocked only on having an installable metapackage in main?
[06:35] <Riddell> pitti: no, it's all loaded at run time, the only thing that depends on it is the gwenview app
[06:36] <mdz> it sounds like the packaging for gwenview needs some work
[06:36] <mdz> can we omit it for the purposes of getting working CDs built?
[06:36] <Riddell> so konqueror goes "I need an image plugin, oh look there's gwenview I'll use that" but otherwise it just uses it's default image plugin
[06:36] <pitti> Riddell: but in theory other packages could use it, too?
[06:36] <mvo> Riddell: thanks
[06:36] <Kamion> 14 5 * * *      /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/cron.kubuntu-daily
[06:36] <mdz> Riddell: if it's a plugin, loaded with dlopen, it shouldn't go in /usr/lib
[06:36] <Kamion> done
[06:36] <Riddell> pitti: only as a kpart, they don't depend on it they just use it if it happens to be there
[06:37] <pitti> hmm, ok
[06:37] <seb128> Kamion: have you read my question ? :)
[06:37] <amu> Kamion: thx
[06:38] <mdz> sounds like a dlopened plugin to me
[06:38] <Riddell> mdz: why not?  all other kparts do
[06:38] <Kamion> seb128: sec
[06:38] <seb128> k
[06:38] <Kamion> netcfg-dhcp.templates:_Description: Continue without a default route?
[06:38] <Kamion> that one?
[06:39] <elmo> so - anything for me to sync?  I need to go get some breakfast soon
[06:39] <seb128> Kamion: yep
[06:39] <mdz> elmo: defiintely kvim, possibly kipi/gwenview
[06:39] <Kamion> seb128: yes, that's checked right after DHCP runs, generally a DHCP server issue
[06:39] <elmo>   * [Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:32:09 GMT]  {Added [Upload] } 1024D/DD4D5088 Jonathan Riddell (University Address) <jri@jriddell.org>
[06:39] <seb128> Kamion: what option is expected ?
[06:39] <Kamion> i.e. as soon as you've got a lease
[06:39] <elmo> Riddell: ?
[06:40] <Kamion> seb128: option?
[06:40] <Kamion> oh
[06:40] <elmo> kvim done
[06:40] <seb128> Kamion: the dhcp servers send a Option 3: Router = ... , that's not the right one ?
[06:40] <Kamion>             for router in $new_routers; do
[06:40] <Kamion>                 ip route add default via $router
[06:40] <Kamion>             done
[06:40] <Riddell> elmo: from yesterday  "Rejected: dbus_0.23-1ubuntu6.dsc: upload is signed by 0x13C16D03EDE728514473AA73A506E6D4DD4D5088 but is not in the Maintainer keyring."
[06:40] <mdz> Riddell: Debian policy
[06:40] <Kamion> that's all I can see in the dhclient-script
[06:41] <mdz> possibly even FHS
[06:41] <Riddell> mdz: but all other kpart shared libraries are under /usr/lib
[06:41] <seb128> Kamion: k, I'll try to figure what's wrong here, thanks
[06:41] <mdz> Riddell: then they all have the same bug :-)
[06:41] <elmo> Riddell: dbus is a main package?
[06:41] <Riddell> elmo: I would have thought so
[06:41] <Kamion> seb128: I'm not really a DHCP expert, sorry :( I can't see where $new_routers comes from, I'm assuming it's set by DHCP
[06:42] <T-Bone> elmo: glad your here
[06:42] <T-Bone> elmo: my upload for linux-source got rejected last tuesday
[06:42] <elmo> Riddell: sorry did I miss something, thought you were a MOTU only ATM?
[06:42] <seb128> Kamion: np, thanks, I'll try to figure that and let you know
[06:42] <T-Bone> elmo: and since i'm not whitelisted, I didn't receive anything. Lamont tried to reupload using his key to sign the changes. same effect
[06:43] <T-Bone> elmo: if you could look at that it'd be very nice
[06:43] <Riddell> elmo: I got approved by the technical committee for restricted main uploads i.e. anything related to KDE
[06:43] <mdz> T-Bone: elmo will need the email address that you want whitelisted
[06:43] <T-Bone> mdz. elmo: varenet@debian.org
[06:44] <mdz> pitti: are you satisfied with kipi and gwenview from a security support perspective?
[06:44] <lamont_r> uh, T-Bone you used t-bone@parisc-linux.org in the upload....
[06:44] <mdz> pitti: let's set aside the library placement for now
[06:44] <pitti> mdz: other than the broken library, gwenview is straightforward and fine
[06:45] <pitti> mdz: I didn't look at kipi yet, I'm still in the MOTU meeting
[06:45] <T-Bone> lamont_r: certainly not
[06:45] <lamont_r> T-Bone: ok
[06:45] <T-Bone> lamont_r: my changelog was @debian.org
[06:45] <mdz> pitti: ok, kipi seems to be thankfully very small
[06:45] <T-Bone> or else something went very wrong. the only address coded in my debian tools is the debian one
[06:46] <lamont_r> T-Bone: so it was
[06:46] <T-Bone> http://parisc-linux.org/~varenet/linux-source-changes/linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-25_source.changes
[06:46] <pitti> mdz: kipi is GO
[06:46] <pitti> mdz: trivial packaging
[06:47] <pitti> mdz: however, I only looked at diff.gz and the deb structure, no source code review
[06:47] <pitti> mdz: but it's all user level, so I don't expect many problems there
[06:47] <pitti> sivang: me too :-)
[06:47] <sivang> hehe
[06:47] <mdz> elmo: ok, please promote libkipi0, gwenview and kvim, and we should be done
[06:47] <Riddell> sivang: it's an image manipulation plugin thing so it has tools like "rotate" and "add a pretty border" that can be used by various KDE programmes
[06:48] <sivang> pitti: if you could point me again to your p.u.c where you have the cdbs dpatch immitating script, that would be cool :)
[06:48] <sivang> Riddell: ah ok, cool !
[06:48] <pitti> sivang: people.debian.org/~mpitt/cdbs-new-patch
[06:48] <sivang> pitti: thanks
[06:48] <elmo> mdz: done
[06:49] <elmo> T-Bone: did you get confirmed as a full maintainer?
[06:49] <lamont_r> Kamion: how about if we make ~buildd/livecd/current-$PROJECT/... and teach BuildLiveCD to take an argument of whcih is wanted?
[06:49] <Kamion> lamont_r: works for me if you can do that with your restricted ssh key
[06:49] <lamont_r> actually, I'd be more tempted with ~buildd/livecd/$PROJECT/current
[06:50] <Kamion> ack
[06:50] <mdz> elmo: when will the changes be reflected at archive.u.c?
[06:50] <lamont_r> did the kubuntu-desktop migration get finished?
[06:50] <T-Bone> elmo: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2004-November/001101.html
[06:50] <mdz> lamont_r: elmo just did the last bits
[06:50] <mdz> kubuntu-desktop should be installable in main as soon as those changes propagate
[06:50] <T-Bone> elmo: i understood that (and so has mako) as a "yes" to your question
[06:50] <elmo> mdz: next cron.daily in 10 mins, + 10 mins  for it to finish + sync
[06:50] <elmo> or I can force one through now if you want
[06:51] <mdz> lamont_r: ^^
[06:51] <mdz> elmo: I think we can wait 20 minutes
[06:52] <lamont_r> mdz: and the buildd only really needs the 10 mins
[06:52] <mdz> workrave wants 10 from me anyway
[06:53] <Kamion> I dunno about workrave, but my wrists want 10 minutes from me
[06:53] <lamont_r> Kamion: the run I do in a bit will be this morning's version of the script...
[06:53] <Kamion> lamont_r: let me know final URLs when you have them
[06:53] <dand> i'm working on translations. anyone knows where can I find menu strings like "Places" and "System"? i tried gnome-menus, but no luck...
[06:54] <T-Bone> elmo: if in doubt i suppose you want to check that with sabdfl
[06:56] <Riddell> elmo: are you adding me to be able to upload to main?
[06:57] <dand> i found out... it was in gnome-panel.
[06:59] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: ping?
[07:00] <Mithrandir> pong
[07:00] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: no time to toy with ia64? :)
[07:01] <Mithrandir> tomorrow.  I have some stuff I need to do today and I'm in a meeting. :)
[07:01] <T-Bone> hehe ok np
[07:01] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: what's your TZ?
[07:01] <T-Bone> Norway. Stupid question :)
[07:01] <Mithrandir> CET
[07:02] <Mithrandir> in 22-23-ish hours is fine, just ping me
[07:02] <T-Bone> roger that
[07:02] <T-Bone> thx
[07:04] <elmo> T-Bone/Riddell: done
[07:04] <T-Bone> elmo: k thx. So next kernel uploads should go through fine?
[07:06] <Riddell> elmo: groovy
[07:07] <lamont_r> elmo?
[07:19] <mdz> Kamion: did you sort out the Task: issue with elmo, or is that obsolete now?
[07:20] <mdz> lamont_r: how are the cloop builds going?
[07:21] <Kamion> mdz: obsolete
[07:21] <lamont_r> launched, and chunking along
[07:21] <Kamion> mdz: at least as far as CD images are concerned
[07:21] <lamont_r> fwiw, BuildLiveCD now takes an argument: 'ubuntu' or 'kubuntu'.  No argument (or 'all') will build both
[07:22] <elmo> uh
[07:22] <elmo> how are you doing that with command limited keys?
[07:22] <Kamion> lamont_r: can you pass arguments through restricted ... what elmo said
[07:22] <lamont_r> elmo: if there's no arguments on the command, then it lets you pass it whatever.
[07:22] <Kamion> it does?
[07:23] <lamont_r> ah, feh.
[07:23] <Kamion> I've never encountered that feature before; normally you have to use stdin to pass arguments
[07:23] <Kamion> so echo ubuntu | ssh buildd@terranova.buildd BuildLiveCD
[07:23] <lamont_r> you have to teach the script a little bit of smarts
[07:24] <Kamion> is that a euphemism for "rewrite"? :-0
[07:24] <Kamion> )
[07:24] <lamont_r> nah
[07:24] <lamont_r> not completely
[07:26] <Kamion> ooh!
[07:26] <Kamion> I did not know about that one
[07:26] <Kamion> neat
[07:26] <lamont_r> me neither until recently
[07:26] <mdz> Riddell: does kdm have an autologin feature like gdm?
[07:27] <lamont_r> so I just have to teach the script to handle that variable :-)
[07:27] <Riddell> mdz: yes
[07:27] <mdz> Riddell: I'll need to teach casper how to configure it
[07:27] <pitti> hmm, array 6 still has no sound for me... I thought the polypaudio "cannot open resource for writing" bug was solved?
[07:27] <Riddell> mdz: what is casper?
[07:27] <lamont_r> Riddell: friendly.
[07:28] <lamont_r> Riddell: it's the thing that confgures and launches the livecd
[07:28] <mdz> oh, it's very similar to gdm.conf
[07:29] <amu> mdz: /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc AutoLoginEnables=True 
[07:29] <Riddell> mdz: /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc  AutoLoginUser=foo  is the one
[07:29] <amu> yes it it similar 
[07:29] <Riddell> and the one amu says
[07:30] <mdz> there is no timedlogin equilavent, though?
[07:31] <mdz> what happens when you logout a user who was logged in with autologin?
[07:31] <mdz> ah, autorelogin
[07:32] <Riddell> mdz: there is an option to autorelogin or not
[07:33] <mdz> pitti: still here?
[07:33] <mdz> /usr/sbin/install-language-locales: line 14: /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED: Permission denied
[07:33] <pitti> mdz: yes
[07:34] <pitti> ugh
[07:34] <pitti> mdz: the file is world-readable at my system???
[07:34] <pitti> mdz: what are the permissions for you?
[07:35] <seb128> k, now the amd64 livecd works fine :)
[07:36] <mdz> pitti: there is an extra '|' in the command line
[07:36] <mdz> pitti: it is trying to execute the file
[07:36] <pitti> AARGH
[07:36] <seb128> now I need to figure which dhclient refuses to set the default route
[07:36] <mdz> seb128: great
[07:36] <seb128> s/which/why/
[07:36] <pitti> mdz: sorry for that; I'm afraid that requires a new glibc upload
[07:38] <mdz> pitti: that's ok, let's get it fixed for preview
[07:38] <pitti> mdz: ack, I do it now
[07:38] <pitti> mdz: ah, I never encountered it since /etc/locale.gen is usually there by default
[07:39] <seb128> dhclient displays a "SIOCADDRT: Network is unreachable" and doesn't set the default route. The server sends an "Option 3: Route =" according to ethereal ... anybody has an idea of what could be wrong ?
[07:39] <lamont_r> Setting up mozilla-firefox-locale-en-gb (1.0lang20041216-2ubuntu1) ...
[07:39] <lamont_r> /var/lib/dpkg/info/mozilla-firefox-locale-en-gb.postinst: line 11: update-mozilla-firefox-chrome: command not found
[07:39] <lamont_r> bummer
[07:39] <lamont_r> mdz: kubuntu livecd ^^^
[07:39] <mdz> pitti: I just encountered it installing in a chroot
[07:40] <mdz> pitti: lamont's bug is yours too I think
[07:40] <pitti> Yes
[07:40] <T-Bone> that would certainly fix the ia64 segfault :^)
[07:41] <mdz> seb128: that sounds like the netmask does not match the default route
[07:42] <mxpxpod> is anyone else having problems with evolution-alarm-notify crashing?
[07:43] <tseng> mxpxpod: rarely
[07:43] <tseng> but yes
[07:43] <mxpxpod> tseng: it crashes for me all the time
[07:43] <tritium> mxpxpod, yes, often, and evolution-exchange-storage
[07:43] <Stuttergart> Anybody having problems with the Array 6 ISO bombing out while trying to "retrieve" the at package?
[07:43] <mxpxpod> tseng: when gnome starts, when evolution starts
[07:44] <Kamion> Stuttergart: that suggests a bad burn, normally
[07:44] <Stuttergart> My Array 6 ISO checks out as far as the MD5 and the at package is on the ISO(find ./ -name 'at*.deb')
[07:44] <Stuttergart> Kam: Y, but the MD5 checks out.
[07:45] <Kamion> Stuttergart: what about if you go back to the main menu from the CD and run "verify the CD-ROM's integrity" or whatever it's called?
[07:45] <Stuttergart> I didn't see that as an option. I will try it out.
[07:45] <mdz> pitti: please make the mozilla-firefox-locale-* problem a priority, since it is blocking kubuntu live CDs
[07:46] <pitti> mdz: ETA 20 minutes, is that okay?
[07:46] <pitti> or faster?
[07:46] <mdz> pitti: yes, I just meant relative to the install-language-locales problem
[07:46] <mxpxpod> tseng: how comes the tomboy stuff?
[07:47] <tseng> i really dont look at that much, more important things going on sorry
[07:47] <mxpxpod> tseng: heh, that's cool
[07:47] <tseng> iirc it just wouldnt run, which is odd enough
[07:47] <tseng> on that note, is tomboy still working on your ppc since dbus upgrade?
[07:48] <tseng> a user is telling me otherwise
[07:48] <mxpxpod> tseng: crashes here
[07:48] <tseng> cute
[07:48] <thully> hi - I noticed that kubuntu is being worked on now - cool!
[07:48] <tseng> thully: has been for some time
[07:49] <thully> No, I mean as far as CD images go...
[07:49] <thully> and putting it into main
[07:49] <seb128> mdz: Option 1: Subnet Mask = 255.255.255.0, Option 3: Router = 192.168.1.1 ... should be fine
[07:49] <thully> I tried out the kubuntu daily - alas, broken packages :(
[07:50] <mdz> seb128: what is your IP address?
[07:50] <Kamion> thully: yes, it was the very first image that we produced. the broken packages have been fixed since then; we had a fairly extensive discussion on this channel
[07:51] <mdz> kubuntu has been worked on for a couple of months now, in fact
[07:51] <seb128> mdz: 192.168.1.15
[07:51] <mdz> seb128: strange
[07:51] <mdz> seb128: and "ip route add default via 192.168.1.1" gives you an error, or no?
[07:52] <seb128> nop, works fine
[07:52] <pitti> mdz: uploaded.
[07:53] <mdz> pitti: do the other locales have the same bug?
[07:53] <mdz> pitti: thanks
[07:53] <pitti> mdz: yes, I fixed them all
[07:53] <pitti> mdz: luckily they are built from a common source package now
[07:53] <mdz> oh, good
[07:53] <pitti> mdz: in warty times each language had its own source
[07:53] <mdz> yes, I did not realize that had changed
[07:54] <pitti> m-f-locale-all :-)
[07:54] <pitti> a really wise decision from Debian
[07:54] <pitti> mdz: the bug is not in warty, btw
[07:57] <mdz> pitti: where did we end up with the question of which languages to put onto the CD and the live images?
[07:57] <mdz> that needs to be addressed for preview
[07:57] <pitti> mdz: there has been no answer so far and the discussion died soon
[07:58] <Kamion> mdz: I suppose I should kick off a new kubuntu daily so people can try it with non-broken packages
[07:58] <mdz> Kamion: sounds good
[07:58] <mdz> once pitti's uploads are built, hopefully we can do a live build as well
[07:58] <pitti> Kamion: can you please wait until mozilla-firefox-locale-all is built?
[07:59] <mdz> pitti: does that affect the install CD?
[07:59] <pitti> mdz: does kubuntu install ffox?
[07:59] <pitti> mdz: if so, then yes
[07:59] <pitti> mdz: I suppose it installs Konqueror?
[07:59] <mdz> pitti: no, kubuntu does not install firefox; that's why we encountered the bug
[07:59] <mdz> right
[08:00] <pitti> mdz: then it will affect install as well, if you install language packs
[08:00] <pitti> -support packages, that is
[08:00] <mdz> hmm
[08:00] <mdz> Kamion: you didn't run into this issue?
[08:00] <Kamion> pitti: ok
[08:00] <mdz> (the mozilla-firefox-locale-* one)
[08:00] <Kamion> mdz: no ...
[08:00] <pitti> mdz: it doesn't affect Ubuntu since we install ffox before the langpacks
[08:00] <pitti> Kamion: ^
[08:00] <Kamion> mdz: oh, but I didn't install language packs since I had to install packages by hand
[08:00] <Kamion> since the automatic aptitude failed
[08:02] <pitti> Kamion: the package builds very quick and it was accepted now, should be a question of minutes
[08:02] <mdz> ah
[08:02] <mdz> jdub: so about polypaudio...
[08:03] <mdz> it's working OK for me
[08:03] <mdz> but apparently there are issues
[08:03] <pitti> on ppc it does nothing but crash
[08:03] <pitti> #6582
[08:04] <mdz> yes, I asked for an update on that bug yesterday. jdub?
[08:07] <svenl> Mmm, why is bugzilla telling me i need to fill in a component field, while i filed the package entry ? 
[08:09] <mdz> lamont_r: will the ssh trigger work for kubuntu, or not yet?
[08:09] <lamont_r> ssh trigger will get you both
[08:09] <lamont_r> and the kubuntu-livecd build failed
[08:09] <mdz> I mean the passing of args
[08:10] <mdz> to build only kubuntu
[08:10] <lamont_r> not yet
[08:10] <mdz> fixed mozilla-firefox-locale-* should be available shortly
[08:12] <svenl> daniels: Bug#7144 reported.
[08:20] <mdz> lamont_r: firefox fix was built at :09; when can we try another cloop build?
[08:20] <Nafallo> mailman@l.u.c gets checked, right? :-)
[08:21] <lamont_r> mdz: go ahead and see if BuildLiveCD kubuntu works with your key
[08:22] <mdz> bad project: /home/buildd/bin/BuildLiveCD
[08:22] <mdz> /home/buildd/bin/BuildLiveCD: line 11: ((: 0 = 0 : attempted assignment to non-variable (error token is "= 0 ")
[08:23] <mdz> the former from terranova, the others gave the latter error
[08:25] <lamont_r> terranova is the only modified one
[08:25] <lamont_r> hehe
[08:25] <lamont_r> try terranova one more time - if that works, I'll clone things
[08:29] <lamont_r> did it get as far as launching livecd.sh?
[08:32] <lamont_r> mdz: I'm going to assume that works.  cloned to all 4.
[08:32] <lamont_r> and firefox should be in the archive in about another 2 minutes
[08:34] <lamont_r> Kamion: is there going to be an array-6 dvd?
[08:34] <Kamion> lamont_r: I hadn't planned on one; I suppose there should be a preview DVD though
[08:34] <lamont_r> sounds about right
[08:35] <Kamion> ugh, that means I have to download one of the suckers and figure out where to burn it
[08:35] <lamont_r> Kamion: nah - make mdz do it. :-)
[08:35] <Kamion> or that :)
[08:36] <lamont_r> or do you mean to make sure that you can debug it and such/
[08:36] <lamont_r> >
[08:36] <lamont_r> ?
[08:36] <lamont_r> gah
[08:36] <Kamion> *shrug*
[08:36] <lamont_r> Kamion: seed question.  the kubuntu stuff is (effectively) siblings of the same-name ubuntu- seed?  kubuntu-desktop is similar to ubuntu-live in it's lack of supersethood?
[08:37] <Kamion> ubuntu-base < ubuntu-desktop < ubuntu-live
[08:37] <Kamion> ubuntu-base < kubuntu-desktop (< kubuntu-live)?
[08:37] <lamont_r> ah, live vs ship I mean
[08:37] <Kamion> oh, yes
[08:37] <Kamion> same seed structural semantics
[08:37] <mdz> lamont_r: did you start a build, or do I need to?
[08:37] <lamont_r> right.
[08:37] <lamont_r> mdz: please do
[08:38] <Kamion> I'm going to put a definition of the structure into the seed archive itself at some point
[08:38] <lamont_r> on at least one (to test)
[08:38] <Kamion> when I have time
[08:38] <lamont_r> I can kick the other 3
[08:38] <Kamion> and make germinate decide what to do based on that
[08:38] <lamont_r> Kamion: cool.
[08:38] <lamont_r> was just pondering my mirror and how much kde hurts me
[08:38] <mdz> seems to be chugging along
[08:38] <lamont_r> and thinking about whether or not it makes sense to just seed the seeds, as it were
[08:39] <mdz> lamont_r: I started them all
[08:39] <Kamion> hah, yeah, my mirror run's just finishing for the day, having started at 03:35 UTC
[08:39] <mdz> does Kamion have the new URLs?
[08:39] <lamont_r> mdz: middle of debootstrap
[08:39] <Kamion> not sure I have the final ones
[08:39] <mdz> there should definitely be a preview DVD
[08:40] <mdz> Kamion: combo-DVD or install-DVD?
[08:41] <Kamion> combo
[08:41] <lamont_r> Kamion: URL's are:  <machine>/~buildd/livecd/$PROJECT/current/livecd.$PROJECT.cloop
[08:41] <lamont_r> I think.
[08:41] <mdz> lamont_r: hmm, weddell fiinshed early
[08:41] <lamont_r> mdz: it always does that.
[08:41] <lamont_r> make thom fix firefox registry crap, and ia64 will be happier again
[08:41] <Kamion> lamont_r: double $PROJECT?
[08:41] <lamont_r> Kamion: uh, yeah.
[08:42] <lamont_r> pb is that livecd.sh can build both, so it needs the second one
[08:42] <lamont_r> separating the /current/ directories accounts for the second one
[08:42] <Kamion> lamont_r: ok
[08:42] <lamont_r> note that there are no ubuntu livecd roots at this time(in the new structure)
[08:42] <Kamion> (don't kick a live build while the install build is still running, as usual)
[08:43] <mdz> lamont_r: which machines are which architectures?  I promise to write it down this time
[08:43] <lamont_r> hehe
[08:44] <mdz> I should rewrite the silly script in python so that it could just tell me
[08:44] <Kamion> Setting up cvs (1.12.9-9) ...
[08:44] <Kamion> Couldn't reopen stdin at /usr/sbin/update-inetd line 29.
[08:44] <Kamion> dpkg: error processing cvs (--configure):
[08:44] <Kamion>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 6
[08:44] <lamont_r> terranova,weddell,adare,king == i386,ia64,ppc,amd64
[08:44] <Kamion> (terranova)
[08:44] <Kamion> maybe it'll work ok anyway
[08:44] <mdz> there is way too much stuff in kubuntu-desktop right now
[08:45] <jbailey> pitti: Is that cdbs patch something you want in cdbs itself?
[08:45] <lamont_r> more is not better? :-)
[08:45] <mdz> kdewedev probably doesn't need to be in the desktop
[08:45] <mdz> Riddell,amu: ?
[08:46] <pitti> jdub: back
[08:46] <pitti> jbailey: back
[08:46] <Kamion> terranova failed
[08:46] <pitti> jdub: sorry, that was not for you
[08:46] <jbailey> Kamion: Next time you're doing an install, can I get you to check whether /proc/swaps is in devfs style names or lsb style?
[08:46] <Riddell> mdz: why not?
[08:46] <pitti> jbailey: what do you mean?
[08:46] <Kamion> jbailey: pretty sure it was devfs, but yeah, I'll check
[08:46] <pitti> jbailey: cdbs-new-patch? would you adopt it?
[08:46] <mdz> Riddell: web development apps?
[08:46] <Riddell> mdz: quanta is very popular (for some reason) and kommander is increasinly useful
[08:46] <lamont_r> Kamion: from which I expect the rest to do the same
[08:46] <mdz> Riddell: we have web development apps in ubuntu as well, but we don't install them by default on every desktop
[08:47] <jbailey> pitti: I haven't read it - I was more wondering if it was something you wanted in cdbs or just something you were playing with.
[08:47] <lamont_r> mdz (machine order matches the vertical column on my screen, in case you were curious about the order...)
[08:47] <pitti> jbailey: do you know dbs-edit-patch and dpatch-edit-patch?
[08:47] <mdz> lamont_r; I used the same order in my script
[08:47] <pitti> jbailey: such a thing is really needed for cdbs simple patchsys
[08:47] <mdz> lamont_r: so the CVS thing is killing us now?
[08:47] <jbailey> pitti: YEah.  Is this the same for simple patchsys?
[08:48] <lamont_r> cvs, quanta, and a couple others
[08:48] <Riddell> mdz: I think people will expect quanta to be in, it's very popular
[08:48] <mdz> quanta is surely failing due to cvs
[08:48] <pitti> jbailey: so I wrote cdbs-new-patch, which already fulfills most of my use cases
[08:48] <lamont_r> Errors were encountered while processing:
[08:48] <lamont_r>  cvs
[08:48] <lamont_r>  libcvsservice0
[08:48] <lamont_r>  quanta
[08:48] <lamont_r>  kdewebdev
[08:48] <lamont_r>  kubuntu-desktop
[08:48] <pitti> jbailey: for tarball.mk I just use dbs-new-patch, that works fine
[08:48] <jbailey> pitti: I was trying to convince some of the MOTUs earlier today that they should write those tools for me. ;)
[08:48] <mdz> lamont_r: any reason update-inetd might not be able to open /dev/null?
[08:48] <pitti> jbailey: but for "normal" (non-tarball) patch creation, the manual method became too tedious for me
[08:49] <mdz> lamont_r: yeah, that's the dependency trail for cvs
[08:49] <lamont_r> figures.
[08:49] <pitti> jbailey: it lacks patch editing, and it cannot handle tarballs for now
[08:49] <pitti> jbailey: that should be added too, since dbs-edit-patch is still pretty clumsy
[08:49] <amu> kdewebdev, quanta, cvs could be removed from desktop, if someone wants it, he can easy install it
[08:49] <lamont_r> mdz: ISTR that being that it got pissed when it couldn't ask a question
[08:50] <jbailey> pitti: Cool.  I'll pull it into Debian soonish, and see if it looks safe for after preview-freeze.
[08:50] <mdz> lamont_r:     open(STDIN,  "<$file") or die "Couldn't reopen stdin";
[08:50] <mdz>     my $file = ($ENV{DEBIAN_FRONTEND} eq 'noninteractive') ?
[08:50] <mdz>         '/dev/null' : '/dev/tty'; # see 4.13 changelog entry
[08:50] <pitti> jbailey: hmm, I didn't submit it until now since it really needs patch editing, too
[08:50] <mdz> lamont_r: surely you're using DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive?
[08:50] <pitti> jbailey: however, I can try to implement that this evening if you want
[08:51] <lamont_r> s/d$//
[08:52] <lamont_r> we prevent udevd from starting, but don't prevent the postinst from trashing /dev for us
[08:52] <Riddell> lamont_r, mdz, amu: if it's causing problems then remove it
[08:52] <mdz> Riddell: it's not causing the problem, but it's triggering one
[08:52] <jbailey> pitti: If you're willing, that would be fabulous.
[08:52] <jbailey> pitti: And the nice part is that these pieces will move directly to cdbs2.
[08:52] <pitti> jbailey: I think it is really necessary now that I promoted cdbs so much for MOTU :-)
[08:53] <Riddell> yep
[08:53] <jbailey> pitti: *lol*  That's also incentive for me to hack on cdbs2.  Maybe this weekend.  Get seb128 off my back ;)
[08:53] <seb128> no no no
[08:53] <pitti> jbailey: what's cool in cdbs2?
[08:53] <seb128> multi-build
[08:53] <seb128> we need it :)
[08:54] <pitti> seb128: btw, do you already have some tools for simple-patchsys.mk patch management?
[08:54] <pitti> seb128: like people.debian.org/~mpitt/cdbs-new-patch ?
[08:54] <lamont_r> mdz: let me ponder this while I drive back home, and I'll get livecd.sh happy again.
[08:54] <mdz> ok
[08:54] <jbailey> seb128: Multibuild, documentation, clearer source code, and no ordering dependancies.
[08:54] <Kamion> mdz: I'm heading off now; I've added cron.kubuntu-daily-live to cdimage/bin/ on little, so if you need to run that (and no other builds are happening), feel free
[08:54] <mdz> Kamion: ok
[08:54] <Kamion> should work :-)
[08:55] <mdz> Kamion: any special procedures if I need to edit it?
[08:55] <mdz> in terms of syncing up with your archive, etc.
[08:55] <pitti> jbailey: documentation? YEAH
[08:55] <Kamion> mdz: I can't imagine you'd need to edit that script, but probably best just let me know for tomorrow and I'll commit changes
[08:55] <jbailey> pitti: The trick with cdbs2 is that there's a 'debian/rules help'
[08:55] <jbailey> pitti: (that already works)
[08:55] <jbailey> pitti: So everytime you define a function, you can easily add documentation.
[08:56] <Kamion> mdz: more likely you might need to edit URLs in cdimage/debian-cd/tools/add_live_filesystem, which isn't in revision control yet
[08:56] <jbailey> pitti: Later plans include some hackery to be able to automatically turn those into manpages.
[08:56] <pitti> jbailey: I spent half an hour and a FTBFS upload to find out that configure/packagename:: is broken :-/
[08:56] <pitti> jbailey: rocks
[08:56] <jbailey> pitti: Oh, yeah.  That's all redesigned.  It confuses *me* on a regular basis.
[08:57] <jbailey> pitti: Build passes are labeled per multibuild pass.  packaging passes are done by package name.  They are not otherwise linked.
[08:57] <jbailey> pitti: That was the mistake we made, trying tom combine the two.
[08:57] <abelli> smurfix: ping
[08:57] <pitti> jbailey: what's multibuild?
[08:57] <pitti> jbailey: like libc does?
[08:57] <pitti> jbailey: -static, -dynamic, or -fast, -debug?
[08:58] <mdz> Kamion: ok
[08:58] <jbailey> pitti: Multibuild is like nano, and nano-udeb.  Configured twice with different options.
[08:58] <smurfix> abelli: 
[08:58] <jbailey> pitti: But a better example is abiword.  You have abiword-gnome, abiword-gtk, and abiword-plugins.
[08:58] <seb128> pitti: totem-xine toem-gstreamer :)
[08:58] <pitti> jbailey: I want it. Now. :-)
[08:58] <smurfix> pitti: That was a "pong". Ping is .
[08:59] <pitti> smurfix: oh, sorry :-)
[08:59] <jbailey> pitti: So that requires two build passes, and three packaging passes.
[08:59] <pitti> smurfix: they look all the same in my small font :-)
[08:59] <smurfix> pitti: They're intended to. Look at the bottom part more closely.
[08:59] <pitti> smurfix: ah, indeed :-)
[09:00] <seb128> pitti: nop, no such tool ... I grab it, thanks :)
[09:00] <abelli> smurfix: have you got time or not?
[09:00] <seb128> pitti: I like cdbs because usually I make diff on the CVS and cvs diff -u > patch :)
[09:00] <abelli> smurfix: i really feel bad about this :(
[09:02] <sivang> seb128: if someone clicks "cancel" in the gksudo window, what's the return code?
[09:02] <Kamion> oh, damn, cron.kubuntu-* were building Ubuntu by mistake. Fixing ...
[09:03] <sivang> seb128: (I want to take care for the case in which a user cancelles)
[09:04] <seb128> $ gksudo ls; echo $?
[09:04] <seb128> 2
[09:04] <sivang> seb128: right, thanks :)
[09:05] <srbaker> is there a source where i can get tomboy for warty?
[09:16] <abelli> mako: ping
[09:24] <jinty> cheers sivang
[09:38] <lamont> right then
[09:38] <mdz> lamont: any relevations on the way home?
[09:38] <lamont> yeah.  I'm going to beat udev to death in it's own little world
[09:39] <mdz> if udev gives you grief, why not use a static /dev?
[09:39] <lamont> I just can't wait for the first moron that build-depends: udeved
[09:39] <lamont> udevd
[09:39] <lamont> that's the issue - I need to finish crippling it
[09:39] <lamont> udevd doesn't run, but the postinst does lots of painful stuff taht I need to undo
[09:39] <mdz> udev-without-udevd should work OK too
[09:40] <HrdwrBoB> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
[09:40] <HrdwrBoB> sorry kitten attack
[09:40] <lamont> kittens are never sorry
[09:40] <HrdwrBoB> haha true
[09:45] <lamont> mdz: so don't do a livecd rootfs build for a minute, eh?
[09:46] <mdz> lamont: ok
[09:47] <pitti> seb128, jbailey: http://people.debian.org/~mpitt/cdbs-edit-patch
[09:47] <pitti> seb128, jbailey: this now can both edit and create patches
[09:47] <lamont> mdz: the issue is that the udev package hijacks /dev..  if you don't run udevd, then you need to unhijack it.  yet one more apt-get added.
[09:48] <pitti> seb128, jbailey: argh, I just noticed a bug, hold on
[09:48] <lamont> do we have a kubuntu-live yet? or still  using ubuntu-live?
[09:48] <mdz> kubuntu-live |       0.28 | http://us.archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main Packages
[09:48] <mdz> kubuntu-live all the way out to the mirrors
[09:48] <lamont>         kubuntu)
[09:48] <lamont>             LIST="ubuntu-base kubuntu-desktop kubuntu-live"
[09:49] <mdz> ubuntu-base gets installed by debootstrap; shouldn't need to think about it at all
[09:49] <seb128> cool
[09:53] <lamont> mdz: no it doesn't:       debootstrap --exclude=udev,ubuntu-base $STE $ROOT $MIRROR
[09:54] <lamont> udev _can't_ be, which means ubuntu-base mustn't be.
[09:54] <mdz> eeewwww
[09:55] <lamont> mdz: trust me, you don't want to read this code...
[09:55] <lamont> and somewhere cupsd got into the picture, and screwed things up for me as well.
[09:56] <mdz> it really ought to be possible to get udev working properly in the chroot
[09:56] <mdz> this is getting pretty gross
[09:57] <pitti> jbailey: updated, fixed bug
[09:57] <mdz> mvo: here?
[09:58] <mvo> mdz: yes
[09:58] <lamont> mdz: the issue is killing it later
[09:58] <lamont> I suppose eventually I'll have to just kill everything that has open fd's under chroot-livecd... hrm,
[09:58] <mdz> mvo: hi, sabdfl and I were discussing language pack installation, and were wondering what the best way would be to queue a package for later installation
[09:58] <mdz> mvo: in order to handle the case where the user's language is not on the CD, and the network is not available (but the network will become available later)
[09:59] <mdz> mvo: I considered that we could use the new hook facility, but I wonder if there isn't a better way
[09:59] <jbailey> pitti: Does this script really have bashisms in it? 
[09:59] <mvo> mdz: do you want to do the install with synaptic or apt or shouldn't it matter?
[10:00] <mvo> mdz: we could add persistenty to apt (like aptitude has it now)
[10:00] <mdz> mvo: yes, something like dselect-upgrade but for synaptic
[10:00] <abelli> is it possible to use an hoary kernel with warty without breaking anything?
[10:00] <mdz> mvo: this doesn't currently exist, though, right?
[10:01] <mvo> mdz: no, there is only "synaptic --set-selections" (which can be used to install stuff non-interactily)
[10:01] <mdz> abelli: hoary kernels require hoary versions of some supporting tools; they're not directly installable on Warty
[10:01] <abelli> mdz: thank you very much
[10:02] <pitti> jbailey: hmm, dash -n is successful
[10:02] <zul> Mithrandir: ping are you going to be around in about 2 hours?
[10:02] <pitti> jbailey: OTOH, who cares?
[10:02] <mvo> mdz: it's trivial to add a "synaptic --selections-file", but I think this quite what we need
[10:02] <mvo> ?
[10:02] <jbailey> pitti: Well as a hint, cdbs2 is based in shell and works on posh. =)
[10:02] <pitti> jbailey: do other shells unterstand ${x%foo} ?
[10:02] <jbailey> pitti: Yes, that's generally posix-safe.
[10:03] <pitti> jbailey: works in dash, too
[10:03] <mdz> mvo: I don't think we should implement something new at this point in the release cycle; just considering the options which are already available
[10:03] <jbailey> cool.  Although dash isn't a posix shell.  It doesn't support array's.
[10:03] <pitti> jbailey: uploaded with #!/bin/sh
[10:04] <jbailey> pitti: Thanks! =)
[10:04] <mvo> mdz: you basicly want to queue a package for install with synaptic on the next start of synpatic?
[10:04] <jbailey> pitti: As for why I care, there are debian derived distros that ship without bash for embedded targets.
[10:04] <pitti> ah
[10:05] <mdz> mvo: we would want to queue a package for installation when network repositories become available
[10:05] <jbailey> pitti: So I try to keep cdbs as pure as I can.  (as well as other tools that I write).  
[10:06] <pitti> jbailey: so you will adopt this into the Debian version?
[10:07] <jbailey> pitti: Yes, sometime this weekend.  I'll clear it with mdz for post preview-freeze for Ubuntu after I can answer his grilling questions about it ;)
[10:07] <mdz> jbailey: who what?
[10:07] <pitti> jbailey: cool, my first contribution to my favourite build system :-)
[10:07] <jbailey> pitti: See?  he asks hard questions. ;)
[10:08] <jbailey> mdz: Patch manipulation script for cdbs.  Should be low impact and make many MOTUs very happy.
[10:08] <pitti> mdz: do you think the addition of a "cdbs-edit-patch" into cdbs would affect the freeze in any way?
[10:08] <mdz> jbailey: user-level stuff, not build-time changes?
[10:08] <pitti> mdz: entirely a developer tool
[10:08] <pitti> mdz: just adds /usr/bin/cdbs-edit-patch, and that's it
[10:08] <mdz> I don't see a problem with it
[10:09] <pitti> mdz: I used cdbs-new-patch for a long time now, now I upgraded it to patch editing
[10:10] <pitti> ogra: so it seems your MOTU crew eventually gets a good cdbs patch tool :-)
[10:10] <mvo> mdz: the current code can't do that. persistency is not implemented (only at the --set-selections level) and it does not distinguish between local vs networked packages. persistency is easy to add (~20 lines of code), local vs networked might be a bigger problem
[10:11] <ogra> pitti: yeah
[10:12] <mvo> mdz: I can make a persistency patch for review if you want (tomorrow morning)?
[10:12] <mdz> mvo: well, it's a bit simpler than networked, "when the package becomes available" is really the right semantics
[10:12] <mdz> mvo: no, I really don't think it would be wise to extend synaptic for this during the freeze
[10:12] <mdz> we need to focus on fixing the bugs we have
[10:12] <ogra> pitti: trulux just showed me his selinux package, you would have to review it too (NEW and security related)
[10:13] <sivang> pitti: you're adding the patch script to cdbs? 
[10:14] <pitti> sivang: maybe, but if jbailey adds it to debian as the only change, we can just sync it
[10:14] <mvo> mdz: ok
[10:14] <trulux> ogra: oh, thanks for noticing it
[10:14] <trulux> mdz, jdub: the mailing list should be created ASAP if possible
[10:15] <jbailey> pitti: Debian's version has already moved on from where Ubuntu's is.  It'll have to go in as a patch against cdbs.
[10:15] <mdz> trulux: keep nagging jdub until he creates it
[10:15] <pitti> jbailey: okay, then I'll do that
[10:17] <jbailey> pitti: Cool, thanks. =)
[10:17] <trulux> mdz: ok :)
[10:20] <lamont> mdz: thanks for the critical comments about udev... :-)  I think it looks more elegant now, and should be more resilient, too.
[10:21] <lamont> "because once you have tac-nukes, everything starts to look like a small city"
[10:21] <mdz> lamont: glad to hear it. are we ready for another test detonation?
[10:22] <lamont> my test is still running, and I haven't cloned the script around yet
[10:22] <lamont> PIDLIST="$(ls -l /proc/*/root 2>/dev/null | grep -- " -> ${ROOT%/}" | sed -n 's/^.*proc.\([0-9] *\).*$/\1/p')"
[10:22] <lamont> is just not a nice thing to do, you see.../
[10:22] <tritium> lamont, what is that quote from?
[10:24] <lamont> tritium: I really can't remember
[10:25] <ajmitch> jbailey: who's hacking on cdbs2?
[10:25] <lamont> tritium: was a phrase I picked up somewhere between 6th and 8th grade, lo these many years ago.
[10:25] <jbailey> ajmitch: I am, occasionally.
[10:26] <tritium> lamont, ok, thanks :)
[10:26] <mdz> lamont: EW
[10:27] <mdz> lamont: would it be worth it to make the chroot a mount point just to be able to fuser -m -k ?
[10:27] <lamont> mdz: remember when I did that and elmo had a fit?  'k.
[10:28] <mdz> heh
[10:28] <mdz> no, but I can imagine
[10:28] <lamont> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root            2 Mar  3 21:28 null
[10:29] <lamont> hrm...
[10:29] <lamont> mdz: very bad to kill init
[10:29] <lamont> on a box with no remote console.
[10:29] <lamont> elmo was in london that day, by chance. :-)
[10:29] <lamont> ISTR you said to use fuser -m -k then too... :0)
[10:30] <mdz> I didn't say to use it on the root filesystem...
[10:34] <jbailey> Kamion: HerE?
[10:35] <lamont> mdz: that was _chrooted_
[10:36] <mdz> lamont: the "try it without the -k first" was implied :-P
[10:36] <lamont> apparently if it can't read something or other, it  faults to including it.
[10:36] <lamont> yeah, well.
[10:36] <lamont> you seemed so confident... :)
[10:45] <jon1012> hi everybody :)
[10:47] <mdz> lamont: I think I would like to see the script
[10:49] <sabdfl> seb128: around?
[10:49] <lamont> mdz: give me a couple minutes
[10:50] <seb128> sabdfl: yes
[10:50] <sabdfl> seb128: have a small change with big impact i'd like to make w.r.t. nautilus
[10:51] <seb128> oh ? which one ? :)
[10:51] <sabdfl> it's the folder browsing, i'd like the default left-double-click action to be open new folder, closing old one
[10:51] <seb128> switch left click/middle click actions ?
[10:51] <T-Bone> sabdfl: trying to work around "open everything in the same window", heh? :)
[10:52] <sabdfl> T-Bone: trying to find sanity
[10:52] <T-Bone> hehe
[10:52] <sabdfl> spatial is nice, clutter is not
[10:52] <T-Bone> definitely
[10:53] <seb128> sabdfl: that will start some long discussion again probably, and that's against spatial according to upstream IIRC but easy to do :)
[10:53] <sabdfl> thought so
[10:53] <jbailey> sabdfl++
[10:53] <jbailey> stop the insanity =)
[10:53] <sabdfl> i'll have the discussion tomorrow, but could you work up the patch please?
[10:53] <seb128> sabdfl: I'll change that tomorrow, prepare to some fun on the lists :p
[10:54] <seb128> sabdfl: k, should I upload ? or just get the patch and wait for the upload ?
[10:54] <sabdfl> thanks. will wear teflon
[10:54] <T-Bone> jbailey: indeed :)
[10:54] <sabdfl> upload
[10:54] <seb128> np, better to do yeah :)
[10:54] <sabdfl> we'll ask for forgiveness tomorrow
[10:54] <seb128> k
[10:57] <sabdfl> night T-None
[10:57] <ogra> sabdfl: my shift key already loves you ;)
[10:57] <ogra> for that...
[10:57] <sabdfl> send me the love guys, i can use it for the hoary+1 name debate too :-)
[10:58] <T-None> yeah same here
[10:58] <T-None> though it'll looks a bit surprising for the average user
[10:58] <T-None> -s
[11:01] <abelli> sorry what font has been used for ubuntu logo?
[11:02] <sabdfl> abelli: custom one
[11:02] <sivang> pitti: I need to loose gnome_cups_spawn, it spawns asynchronously. I need synchronous spawning :-/
[11:02] <abelli> sabdfl: we are working on the new italian website
[11:03] <sivang> pitti: creates locking and status problems for me
[11:03] <pitti> sivang: hmm, async is not that bad ?
[11:03] <pitti> sivang: okay, if sync is easier, do it
[11:03] <sivang> pitti: yes, but for this purpose, i need _sync_ not sync
[11:03] <abelli> ...the last remaing thing is how to write "ubuntu-it.org"
[11:03] <sabdfl> abelli: only have the letters ubnt
[11:03] <sabdfl> clone it :-)
[11:03] <abelli> sabdfl: thank you very much indeed...
[11:03] <abelli> ciao
[11:03] <sabdfl> sorry!
[11:04] <abelli> sabdfl: is smurfix the only one i should speak with for domain problems?
[11:04] <lamont> sabdfl: wish we'd gotten a complete character set...
[11:04] <sabdfl> lamont: can do, if we need it
[11:04] <lamont> although ubuntu-nt is pretty doable, eh?
[11:04] <lamont> "need" is a pretty strong term
[11:07] <pitti> ogra: btw, nice meeting today, and nice report
[11:08] <mdz> seb128: is there a bug open about the fact that the mixer applet opens a dialog if there is no sound device?
[11:08] <mdz> seb128: I can't find one
[11:08] <mdz> but with bugzilla, that doesn't mean it isn't there
[11:08] <seb128> no
[11:08] <abelli> pitti: im going to branch, your baz archive, ill use it with a friend that is helping, am i allowed?
[11:08] <mdz> I really think it shouldn't display a dialog
[11:08] <seb128> I don't think there is one
[11:08] <ogra> pitti: thanks.... was quite exciting...(first meeting i held on irc ever)
[11:09] <pitti> abelli: sure, you don't need permission to branch an arch tree :-)
[11:09] <seb128> mdz: right, the dialog is not really useful for anybody
[11:09] <pitti> abelli: can you please set up commit notifications and CC me?
[11:09] <abelli> pitti: obviously..
[11:09] <pitti> abelli: I can send you my arch hook script if you want
[11:10] <mdz> seb128: should I file a bug for you, or no?
[11:10] <abelli> pitti: T H A N K S
[11:10] <seb128> mdz: please, just as a reminder
[11:11] <pitti> abelli: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/arch-commit-mail-hook
[11:15] <trulux> oops
[11:15] <trulux> too bad
[11:15] <trulux> # CONFIG_SECURITY_NETWORK is not set
[11:15] <lamont> Preconfiguring packages ... 
[11:15] <lamont> postdrop: warning: unable to look up public/pickup: No such file or directory
[11:15] <trulux> # CONFIG_SECURITY_SELINUX_MLS is not set
[11:15] <lamont> I hates packages what send mail
[11:15] <trulux> thse *needs* to be fixed ASAP
[11:15] <trulux> pitti: this is a big issue
[11:15] <trulux> BIG issue :(
[11:16] <ajmitch> trulux: you shouldn't need MLS
[11:16] <ajmitch> but you will want networking hooks
[11:16] <trulux> ajmitch: of course
[11:16] <mdz> it was not big enough to notice weeks ago when it would have been a small matter to change it
[11:16] <mdz> we are in a very strict freeze for the preview release right now
[11:17] <mdz> lamont: yes, but at what cost? ;-)
[11:17] <lamont> 4 umounts and 2 mounts
[11:18] <lamont> oh, and a 'kill_users()' function
[11:18] <lamont> udevd doesn't start when you're chrooted with start-stop-daemon diverted, you see...
[11:19] <lamont> mdz: did we decide that all the locale.gen stuff can go away?
[11:19] <mdz> lamont: yes
[11:19] <mdz> language-pack-en takes care of it for us
[11:19] <lamont> ok
[11:20] <lamont> gonna have to talk about that in the bastard-stepchildren bof, you know...
[11:20] <mdz> udevd shouldn't need to start
[11:20] <lamont> right.
[11:20] <mdz> what caused your /dev/null to go missing?
[11:20] <lamont> but if it's not started, then the postinst really shouldn't depopulate /dev
[11:20] <lamont> udev
[11:20] <lamont> or rather, udev.postinst
[11:21] <trulux> mdz: I noticed it when trying to compile latest vsecurity, a new re-structured version
[11:21] <trulux> and doing debian packaging
[11:21] <trulux> will re-compile thge kernel
[11:21] <lamont> which happily built a new /dev, and counted on the (unstarted) udevd to populate trivial things like /dev/null.
[11:21] <lamont> or somesuch
[11:21] <lamont>     # I really, really, really hate udev some days.
[11:21] <lamont>     chroot $ROOT apt-get -y install udev < /dev/null
[11:21] <lamont>     kill_users
[11:21] <lamont>     umount ${ROOT}/dev/shm || true
[11:21] <lamont>     umount ${ROOT}/dev/pts || true
[11:21] <lamont>     umount ${ROOT}/.dev || true
[11:21] <lamont>     umount ${ROOT}/dev || exit 5        # this one is fatal
[11:22] <lamont>     mount -tdevpts none ${ROOT}/dev/pts
[11:22] <lamont>     mount -ttmpfs none ${ROOT}/dev/shm
[11:22] <lamont> I suppose that technically, I don't _HAVE_ to umount /.dev
[11:22] <mdz> lamont: it looks like what you need to do is create /dev/run-udevstart
[11:22] <lamont> to cause udevd to run?
[11:23] <mdz> no, to cause your device nodes to be created when udev is installed
[11:23] <mdz> I'm not sure, though
[11:23] <mdz> I'd really like to see the script
[11:28] <mdz> lamont: I don't have any problem installing cvs in a chroot here
[11:29] <mdz> I don't understand the original cause of the problem
[11:29] <lamont> mdz: is that with no tty, or with one?
[11:30] <lamont> and the issue is that udevd got stubbed out, and winds up with a rather unpopulated /dev - hence unmounting that /dev is the trivial route to go
[11:30] <mdz> root@mizar:/# DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive apt-get install cvs </dev/null >/dev/null 2>&1
[11:30] <mdz> root@mizar:/# dpkg -l cvs
[11:30] <mdz> ii  cvs            1.12.9-9       Concurrent Versions System
[11:31] <lamont> what I really would like to do with udevd is install it last, but leave it unconfigured.
[11:31] <lamont> but that'd pollute the ramfs with all of /dev,  which is bad
[11:31] <mdz> I really don't think it should be a problem to let debootstrap install udev as normal
[11:31] <lamont> might not be now that I have kill_users
[11:32] <mdz> I don't even end up with udevd running in the chroot when I try it here
[11:32] <mdz> oh, is the host system not using udev in your case?
[11:34] <lamont> ps aux| grep udev
[11:34] <lamont> buildd   15246  0.0  0.0  1536  452 pts/0    S+   22:34   0:00 grep udev
[11:34] <lamont> nope
[11:36] <mdz> hmm, I can't test that easily
[11:38] <lamont> test is running.  poor terranova
[11:38] <mdz> lamont: at what point does /dev get mounted?
[11:38] <lamont> somewhere in debootstrap
[11:39] <mdz> Setting up udev (0.050-3ubuntu5) ...
[11:39] <mdz> I: Configuring udev...
[11:39] <mdz> Populating the new /dev filesystem temporarily mounted on /tmp/dir.Oxx7q2/...
[11:39] <mdz> that's what happens here
[11:40] <mdz> and at the end of debootstrap, /dev is a plain static dev
[11:40] <mdz> ah, never mind
[11:40] <mdz> it does in fact
[11:41] <pitti> night everybody
[11:41] <mdz> night
[11:41] <lamont> night pitti
[11:41] <abelli> pitti: ciao
[11:42] <abelli> sweet dreams
[11:42] <pitti> thx
[11:42] <abelli> pleasure... may pax be with you
[11:42] <abelli> :))
[11:45] <sivang> good night all !
[11:47] <lamont> son of beech
[11:47] <mxpxpod> how long will it be before the new 2.6.11 is in hoary's repos... I see that 2.6.11-0.2 is in there, but I'm guessing those are pre-releases
[11:47] <lamont> as usual, mdz is correct (well, ignoring the whole fuser thing...)
[11:48] <lamont> mxpxpod: once fabbione gets back from his honeymoon, I expect he'll package it
[11:48] <tseng> mxpxpod: there is a freeze on main for the upcoming preview
[11:48] <lamont> tseng: 2.6.11 is universe
[11:48] <sivang> mdz: what I learend, he always is :-) (so when he says something I just take it for granted)
[11:48] <tseng> hm
[11:48] <sivang> oops
[11:48] <sivang> lamont: ^^^
[11:48] <mxpxpod> lamont: ah, cool... when did he get married?
[11:48] <tseng> oh thats right it has a versioned package name
[11:49] <lamont> mxpxpod: couple weeks ago, iirc
[11:49] <mxpxpod> how long has his honeymoon been?
[11:49] <lamont> couple weeks.
[11:49] <mxpxpod> dang
[11:49] <mxpxpod> my honey moon was a couple of days
[11:50] <lamont> mxpxpod: my honeymoon consisted of taking the week off work and playing tourist 40 miles from the house
[11:50] <mxpxpod> lamont: heh, I went to a tourist trap for mine
[11:51] <mxpxpod> and it was only like 2 hours away from where we live
[11:51] <HrdwrBoB> lamont: haha Kim would have my head if I did that :/
[11:51] <HrdwrBoB> we are going on a cruise
[11:51] <jbailey> Mine consisted of the train ride from Vancouver back to Toronto. =)
[11:51] <HrdwrBoB> away from everything
[11:51] <mxpxpod> jbailey: heh
[11:51] <jbailey> It was lovely.
[11:51] <lamont> jbailey: San Jose -> San Fran
[11:51] <lamont> about 3 times
[11:51] <jbailey> lamont: There's something cool about being in first class on a train for 3 days, though. =)
[11:52] <lamont> yeah
[11:52] <lamont> rode coach from Laramie, WY to Oakland, CA once.  ~24 hours of almost entirely train (with a bus from Ogden to SLC to switch train lines)
[11:54] <zul> Mithrandir: ping
[11:54] <Mithrandir> zul: pong
[11:54] <luis_> blah
[11:54] <zul> Mithrandir: come to #ubuntu-kernel for a sec
[11:54] <luis_> mdz: you around? (or anyone who is an expert on the liveCDs?)
[11:56] <luis_> for some reason the 'pool' directory on my CD is filling up ridiculously, going from 7M to 499M for some reason.
[11:56] <luis_> needless to say it cramps my CDs a bit ;)
[11:57] <luis_> oh.
[12:00] <lamont> I don't remember seeing this before.... warning: updatedb: could not open database: /var/lib/slocate/slocate.db: No such file or directory