| === Burgundavia [~Burgundav@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| froud | African Greetings | 07:01 |
|---|---|---|
| froud | enrico: I have added OMF files for FAQ and QG. Build needs to install them. | 07:21 |
| === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| froud | enrico: you got the updates | 11:11 |
| enrico | hello froud! | 11:12 |
| froud | hello | 11:12 |
| froud | you got the message re OMF | 11:12 |
| enrico | You mean, yesterday's changes? Yes, I've seen them last night | 11:12 |
| froud | no todays | 11:12 |
| froud | check list | 11:12 |
| enrico | I fixed the makefile to point xsltproc to DocBook 4.2.1's catalogs | 11:12 |
| froud | :-) thannks | 11:12 |
| === enrico checks list | ||
| enrico | oh, great! | 11:14 |
| froud | so the build needs four omfs and registration | 11:15 |
| froud | we can't get it into array 6, Kamion already just released it | 11:16 |
| froud | Array 6 does install the doc packages though :-) | 11:17 |
| froud | so users will get our updates | 11:17 |
| enrico | oh, so we're already in the main seed and stuff | 11:17 |
| enrico | or desktop seed | 11:18 |
| froud | sure | 11:18 |
| enrico | (I still haven't gotten around so know these seeds things very well) | 11:18 |
| froud | once we have the new build it will show in Yelp | 11:18 |
| froud | At present they dont show | 11:19 |
| enrico | froud: is faq.omf about the FAQ Guide? | 11:21 |
| froud | yes | 11:21 |
| froud | rename if you need | 11:21 |
| enrico | ok, I'll change the title then (It's the Unofficial Ubuntu Guide) | 11:21 |
| froud | Perhaps we can work on that for Grumpy and make it official :-) | 11:22 |
| enrico | And the creator is more like Chua Wen Kiat | 11:22 |
| froud | yes | 11:22 |
| enrico | And it's (argh) for Warty | 11:23 |
| enrico | (now that I see the title on ubuntuguide.org | 11:23 |
| enrico | ) | 11:23 |
| froud | yes, I know | 11:23 |
| enrico | Now that the quickguide is almost finished, we could coordinate with Chua about upgrading the guide for Hoary | 11:23 |
| froud | yes but it must be done in svn | 11:23 |
| froud | otherwise plovs work was for nothing | 11:24 |
| enrico | sure. It could be the moment in which we converge | 11:24 |
| enrico | Another thing I had in mind for post-quickguide was to get access to some document in /usr/share/doc/<package> | 11:24 |
| enrico | I'll make a wikipage for post-hoary docteam ideas | 11:25 |
| froud | yes, it bothers me that everyone is off doing their own thing. We need a focused effort | 11:25 |
| enrico | like a brainstorming page | 11:25 |
| enrico | which calls for a meeting soon | 11:25 |
| froud | like there is an Unofficial User Guide :-( | 11:26 |
| froud | All this defocused stuff will get confusing for the user | 11:26 |
| froud | b'side we need the help | 11:26 |
| enrico | 2 new people subscribed to our commits mailing list today | 11:42 |
| froud | I asked ari if he will be staying with us for grumpy develop. If he is we should create him an account. | 11:43 |
| froud | enrico: did you manage to build it and see it in yelp | 11:45 |
| enrico | I built. Now I try to install it | 11:45 |
| sivang | morning all | 11:45 |
| froud | boker tov | 11:46 |
| enrico | morning sivang ! | 11:46 |
| sivang | hey enrico, froud | 11:46 |
| sivang | froud: did you get along with making the docs appear in yelp? | 11:46 |
| froud | :-) yep | 11:46 |
| froud | we're cooking with gas now | 11:47 |
| froud | sivang: enrico is just testing the packaging build | 11:47 |
| enrico | froud: Ok, I get them inside the "Generic" category" | 11:48 |
| === froud sets reminder to file bug for mdz about scrollkeeper, db 4.3 and xml catalog problem | ||
| froud | enrico: ok let me build an dtest it too | 11:48 |
| froud | all your commits in | 11:49 |
| enrico | Things show up nicely, except the image in the "Abount Ubuntu" page | 11:50 |
| enrico | froud: there's a very new commit fixing the title in the QUickGUide OMF | 11:50 |
| sivang | froud: yep, it's mportant :) | 11:50 |
| sivang | enrico: Howdy! | 11:50 |
| froud | enrico: nice, all there and working. Now it would be better if we can get the Ubuntu Docs on the default yelp page | 11:56 |
| enrico | froud: yes... dunno how to do it, though | 11:57 |
| froud | that make two of us | 11:57 |
| enrico | but I can try to figure out | 11:57 |
| froud | :-) | 11:57 |
| froud | gimme a hint and I will help | 11:57 |
| enrico | I'm reporting some tons of bug atm | 11:58 |
| sivang | enrico: I think I can help here | 11:58 |
| enrico | sivang: Please do | 11:58 |
| sivang | enrico: (wrt your last question in -devel) | 11:58 |
| froud | sivang: go on then what do we need to do | 11:58 |
| sivang | enrico: is the omf file available from the source pkg? | 11:58 |
| enrico | froud: and how about the image in the about ubuntu document? Does it show up in your yelp? | 11:58 |
| sivang | thom appears to hav already helped you | 11:59 |
| froud | no yelp is to stupid | 11:59 |
| enrico | sivang: yes, but his help is not accessible | 11:59 |
| sivang | enrico: oh how come? :-/ | 12:00 |
| enrico | sivang: the mail has not reached the list (possibly moderated) | 12:00 |
| sivang | enrico: anyway , svn co url is the way to go if you just want to checkout the doc repor without having an account right? (I'm doing a couple of thins in between and can't set up my account now) | 12:00 |
| enrico | sure: plese svn co the thing | 12:01 |
| sivang | enrico: k, thanks. | 12:01 |
| sivang | http//docs.ubunut.com right? | 12:02 |
| froud | sivang: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk | 12:02 |
| sivang | froud: tnx | 12:03 |
| sivang | checking out | 12:04 |
| sivang | enrico: where in trunk are the omf files? | 12:09 |
| enrico | sivang: debian/ | 12:09 |
| sivang | eh found | 12:09 |
| sivang | enrico: yes, sorry | 12:09 |
| === enrico goes for lunch | ||
| sivang | enrico: I'm trying something at it , let's see what comes out :) | 12:19 |
| enrico | nice snow storm here | 12:46 |
| enrico | sivang: thanks! | 12:46 |
| sivang | enrico: hey I envy you for being in Italy in a nice snow storm | 12:49 |
| sivang | :) | 12:49 |
| === enrico feels too cold to be envied | ||
| sivang | enrico: ping again | 01:04 |
| enrico | pong | 01:04 |
| sivang | enrico: I think I can creat a topleve catagory for our docs , still checking :) | 01:04 |
| === sivang is building a new yelp with the elleged catagories in | ||
| sivang | bah it takes long to build | 01:07 |
| enrico | sivang: sure it does :( | 01:07 |
| sivang | finished :) | 01:08 |
| sivang | installing (over my system) | 01:08 |
| sivang | now let's check | 01:08 |
| sivang | got it! | 01:08 |
| sivang | I did it :) | 01:08 |
| enrico | it works? WOW! I want to see | 01:09 |
| sivang | enrico: it's only an catagory addition, would you like to take on from here? | 01:09 |
| sivang | enrico: I have some bugs I'm fighting with at moment besides that | 01:09 |
| sivang | :) | 01:09 |
| enrico | sivang: just show me what you did | 01:09 |
| sivang | enrico: but that was satisfactory | 01:09 |
| sivang | enrico: sure :) | 01:09 |
| enrico | a patch (svn diff) or something | 01:09 |
| enrico | if it's short, paste it here | 01:09 |
| enrico | froud: do you still need a hand for those validity errors? | 01:10 |
| sivang | enrico: how do I hand install file to scrollkeepr database? | 01:11 |
| froud | enrico: yes | 01:11 |
| enrico | froud: gnam gnam, let's see... | 01:11 |
| enrico | sivang: scrollkeeper-install? | 01:13 |
| enrico | sivang: post that patch! :) | 01:13 |
| froud | enrico: http://scrollkeeper.sourceforge.net/documentation/writing_scrollkeeper_omf_files/ar01s08.html#skomf-registering | 01:14 |
| enrico | sivang: that link is for oyu | 01:14 |
| froud | you can also test it | 01:15 |
| froud | scrollkeeper-install -i -p foo_db_dir foo.amf | 01:15 |
| froud | omf | 01:15 |
| sivang | enrico: eh, I see now I only managed to add a toplever catagory in yelp, but there is apparently more work to do to make it a "section" with the docs underneath it | 01:16 |
| froud | enrico: dunno if I will get to those valid errors in FAQ | 01:16 |
| enrico | froud: what would the 'base' attribute do in the <chapter> element? | 01:16 |
| enrico | sivang: would you mind telling us HOW you did it? | 01:17 |
| sivang | enrico: ok, I don't think you would need a patch for that, here goes: | 01:17 |
| sivang | enrico: go to /usr/share/yelp | 01:17 |
| sivang | enrico: then edit the file toc.xml | 01:17 |
| sivang | enrico: <toc id="UbuntuDocs"> | 01:18 |
| sivang | <title>Ubuntu Documentation</title> | 01:18 |
| sivang | </toc> | 01:18 |
| sivang | add this | 01:18 |
| sivang | and you get a nice toplevel catagory in yelp | 01:18 |
| sivang | now, how do you make it corrospond to a scrollkeeper databse entry.. | 01:18 |
| enrico | oh, ok. That's a problem for me anyway, because my .debs can't change a file belonging to another package | 01:19 |
| sivang | enrico: a patch for this file should go into yelp source package, | 01:19 |
| sivang | enrico: if you want it to get installed. and yelp is the package which installs it | 01:20 |
| enrico | oh, yes, trye | 01:20 |
| enrico | oh, yes, true | 01:20 |
| sivang | enrico: I hope I helped a bit :-/ | 01:20 |
| enrico | I forgot that we have the freedom of patching the other packages :) | 01:20 |
| sivang | enrico: hehehe | 01:20 |
| froud | enrico: where do you have a @base? | 01:21 |
| sivang | enrico: I can patch it for you if you like, I am just still trying to figure how to match between yelp toc.xml and the db catagories | 01:21 |
| sivang | enrico: and seb would review/upload | 01:21 |
| enrico | sivang: sounds good, let's try that. When you got how to have an "Ubuntu" cagetory, we can just use that | 01:22 |
| enrico | that'd be really nice! | 01:22 |
| enrico | froud: it's when validating things: it tells me "faqs/GettingStarted.xml:9: element chapter: validity error : No declaration for attribute base of element chapter" | 01:23 |
| enrico | I'll start fixing all of them, as soon as I can understand the error message :) | 01:23 |
| enrico | froud: ops. While googling I see that someone asked the same question, but got few results | 01:25 |
| enrico | froud: and he was some "Sean Wheller" :) | 01:25 |
| enrico | it's happened to me before to look for my problem in Google and to find... my problem, reported by me (or someone working with me) months ago already | 01:27 |
| froud | Hmm the xml base problem. | 01:29 |
| froud | Docbook 4.1.2 did not know what to do if xinlcude docs are not in the same dir as the including file | 01:31 |
| froud | Obviously that was one of the reasons why I used Docbook 4.3 :-) | 01:31 |
| enrico | uhm... thinking | 01:31 |
| froud | so solve this we can mv all docs in faqs to .. | 01:31 |
| froud | then change the fileref values | 01:31 |
| enrico | that was what I was thinking | 01:31 |
| froud | you want to do it or shall I | 01:32 |
| enrico | I do it | 01:32 |
| froud | ok | 01:32 |
| froud | enrico: more of a problem is what is the sect-general that all those xrefs link to | 01:34 |
| froud | I don't see any section called General Notes | 01:34 |
| enrico | froud: that is? | 01:34 |
| enrico | Oh. You can see it in ubuntuguide.org | 01:34 |
| enrico | it's like a disclaimer | 01:35 |
| enrico | strange it's not in the repo | 01:35 |
| froud | Hmm ok | 01:35 |
| froud | found it | 01:36 |
| froud | wierd it is in the document &general-notes; | 01:37 |
| enrico | froud: committed: now it works | 01:38 |
| enrico | I'll also rename faq2.xml in something else | 01:38 |
| enrico | I'm checking Chua Wen Kiat's blog: he appeared in another 2 newspaper articles! | 01:41 |
| sivang | enrico: any progress? | 01:44 |
| enrico | sivang: the FAQ Guide now validates | 01:45 |
| enrico | froud, sivang: DocteamPostHoary ! | 01:45 |
| sivang | enrico: what? | 01:49 |
| enrico | sivang: it's a wiki page | 01:49 |
| sivang | enrico: I can't figure out what needed to be done furhter to make the yelp catagory valid | 01:49 |
| sivang | enrico: sorry | 01:49 |
| enrico | sivang: no problem | 01:49 |
| sivang | enrico: darn, this yelp --> scrollkeepr relationships stuff is pretty complex | 01:49 |
| === froud wants to kill yelp altogether. The days of help viewer apps is gone | ||
| froud | Oh and Jeff agrees | 01:51 |
| froud | :-) | 01:51 |
| enrico | I don't know what to say: at the conf they liked the idea of the about page showing up in yelp... | 01:52 |
| froud | about page and ubuntu docs should be under firefox | 01:53 |
| froud | use mono to create a toc | 01:53 |
| froud | much easier | 01:53 |
| froud | people who use man, use cli | 01:53 |
| froud | enrico: did you rename faqqqq2.xml | 01:54 |
| froud | enrico: did you rename faq2.xml | 01:54 |
| sivang | froud: since when did he agree with that? | 01:57 |
| froud | since he sent mail yesterday | 01:57 |
| === froud knows sivang does not actually read the list | ||
| enrico | froud: no, I didn't rename it | 01:58 |
| sivang | froud: you mean to the doc list? | 01:58 |
| froud | are you going to | 01:58 |
| sivang | froud: I don't get how mono creates documentation tocs :) | 01:58 |
| froud | sivang: the one and only | 01:58 |
| enrico | froud: i thought about doing so, if that is not a problem | 01:58 |
| sivang | froud: or how it can be used to created documentation either | 01:58 |
| froud | enrico: let do it | 01:58 |
| froud | sivang: huh now you lost me | 01:59 |
| sivang | well, I can't give hand to this :) I'm a shaunm fanboy and on his mub ;-)) | 01:59 |
| sivang | too bad his not around at the moment, otherwise he would help us alot | 01:59 |
| froud | sivang: most of the packaging problems we are having are caus eof yelp/omf/scrollkeeper | 01:59 |
| enrico | froud: "faqguide.xml", allright? | 01:59 |
| sivang | we just don't know them too well :) | 02:00 |
| froud | enrico: not particular just give it a name | 02:00 |
| froud | but remember to update the build | 02:00 |
| froud | I will adjust the makefile | 02:00 |
| enrico | froud: renamed. Testing... | 02:01 |
| enrico | froud: committed. Makefile should be ok as well | 02:04 |
| enrico | now I'm considering renaming the OMF files adding the language code | 02:05 |
| froud | I think it is a good idea. thom is right about that | 02:05 |
| enrico | I'm on it, then | 02:05 |
| froud | thanx dude you're a star. I just don't have much time now to get into new things | 02:06 |
| froud | Trying to prepare for Linux World JHB | 02:07 |
| froud | but I had a brain fart and cant think waht to write | 02:08 |
| enrico | froud: white page panic? | 02:08 |
| froud | enrico: brain fart two para then stop | 02:09 |
| froud | delete | 02:09 |
| froud | two para | 02:09 |
| froud | delete | 02:09 |
| froud | two para | 02:09 |
| froud | delete | 02:09 |
| enrico | froud: take some playing cards, and some post-it notes | 02:09 |
| enrico | froud: brainstorm silly ideas for contents on the post-it notes, and stick one idea to one playing card | 02:10 |
| enrico | froud: (use the back of the card, so that the image doesn't distract you) | 02:10 |
| enrico | froud: after you have your deck of ideas, spread it on the table | 02:10 |
| enrico | froud: then, group them without thinking, according to your instinct | 02:10 |
| froud | its always easy to write for everyone else but never easy to write for ones self | 02:11 |
| enrico | froud: don't ask yourself questions and don't think while you group them (also while you brainstorm them, if you want) | 02:11 |
| enrico | froud: after you're satisfied with grouping, turn your rational mind back on and look at what you have and what are the groups | 02:11 |
| enrico | froud: this is called "Card sorting" and it's very useful | 02:11 |
| froud | does that work | 02:12 |
| enrico | froud: very well for me | 02:12 |
| froud | must be an Italian thingy | 02:12 |
| enrico | it allows you to "touch" your ideas, work on them freely on a large surface with two hands | 02:12 |
| froud | never heard of it | 02:12 |
| froud | lets try | 02:12 |
| === froud goes to get a deck of card | ||
| enrico | froud: They do it, for example, when deciding which action goes on which menu on a user interface | 02:13 |
| froud | and that's why the GUI is so confusing :-) | 02:13 |
| enrico | they prepare the cards, one card per program function, then ask a sample of users to group them | 02:13 |
| froud | I didnt know that | 02:13 |
| enrico | that allows to have the actions sorted according to the brain model of the users and not the one of the developers | 02:13 |
| froud | cool ide | 02:14 |
| froud | idea | 02:14 |
| enrico | I don't know, however, which applications have been designed like this | 02:14 |
| froud | OK I am going back to the drawing board. Is there anything else left before I move | 02:17 |
| enrico | I'm quite satisfied with today. I could upload the new packages to Hoary and then look for mdz | 02:18 |
| froud | sounds good | 02:18 |
| enrico | I have tons of things to ask him: freeze dates, yelp or not yelp, post-hoary goals, docteam meeting, notify us when app features change... | 02:18 |
| enrico | :w | 02:18 |
| enrico | ops | 02:19 |
| froud | we still need to close some of those new menu items | 02:19 |
| froud | I posted about them to the list | 02:19 |
| enrico | Seen it | 02:19 |
| froud | pitty if we did not finish them | 02:19 |
| froud | once we have done that we can do a final check and then final package | 02:19 |
| enrico | yes | 02:20 |
| froud | then tag | 02:20 |
| froud | and meet | 02:20 |
| enrico | I'll post a recap of things needing help in the list | 02:20 |
| enrico | yes! | 02:20 |
| froud | and decide new directions for grumpy | 02:20 |
| sivang | are you guys planning a meeting? | 03:06 |
| === froud nods | ||
| sivang | ah ok, I'll have to catch up a lot on -doc to see when and where. | 03:07 |
| === froud looks at kubuntu and wonders how this will impact docteam | ||
| === froud [~froud@ndn-165-131-148.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| enrico | froud: around? | 04:48 |
| === dand [~dand@gw.datagroup.ro] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === dand [~dand@gw.datagroup.ro] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] | ||
| === maskie [~maskie@196-30-108-208.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| froud | enrico: what's up | 07:44 |
| === froud just got back from 3 hours of lectures. enrico I am off for the night. send mail for the morning. | ||
| enrico | froud: ok. I had a chat with mdz, I'll post the results | 07:56 |
| === abelli [~abelli@adsl-ull-150-5.41-151.net24.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| abelli | sivang: enrico: ChrisH | 09:36 |
| abelli | ping | 09:37 |
| abelli | Kinnison: ciao r you here? | 09:37 |
| sivang | abelli: pong | 09:38 |
| abelli | sivang: http://socrates.homedns.org/cms/ | 09:38 |
| abelli | tell me what you think | 09:38 |
| abelli | please | 09:38 |
| abelli | :)) | 09:38 |
| sivang | abelli: A M A Z I N G ! ! ! ! | 09:42 |
| abelli | sivang: is it this bad? | 09:42 |
| abelli | ahh.. right ;) | 09:42 |
| sivang | abelli: I want this also for my local website, simple CMS? | 09:42 |
| abelli | yes | 09:42 |
| sivang | abelli: amazing, really. | 09:43 |
| abelli | sivang: but let's see if ill be the italian loco leader anymore :( | 09:43 |
| sivang | abelli: why? | 09:44 |
| abelli | sivang: a person, complained about how, he said, i do direct the community.. | 09:44 |
| abelli | :(( | 09:44 |
| sivang | eh I se | 09:44 |
| sivang | see | 09:44 |
| sivang | well , what can say | 09:44 |
| abelli | the problem is, i didnt direct anything.. | 09:44 |
| sivang | hmm | 09:44 |
| sivang | well, then start directing :) | 09:45 |
| abelli | because ive been working on a proper website | 09:45 |
| abelli | to give support and blah blah blah.. | 09:45 |
| abelli | i did only one big mistake.. | 09:45 |
| abelli | :( | 09:45 |
| abelli | because i didnt want to leave user without a website.. | 09:45 |
| abelli | we had www.ubuntuitalia.it, opened up some weeks ago, | 09:45 |
| abelli | and this person helped with forums | 09:46 |
| abelli | ...now he goes here and there, saying hes ubuntuitalia.. | 09:46 |
| abelli | when i asked him to respect the code of conduct, he just complained with smurfix.. | 09:46 |
| abelli | im so sad | 09:47 |
| abelli | ..let make things clear.. | 09:47 |
| abelli | the other 99% of the ppl that worked in ubuntuitalia is with me.. | 09:47 |
| abelli | but im still sad | 09:47 |
| sivang | well, talk to smurfix and you would be alright | 09:49 |
| sivang | :) | 09:49 |
| abelli | sivang: he has no time for me today, hes going in london to tomorrow | 09:49 |
| sivang | abelli: eh, good for him :) | 09:49 |
| sivang | abelli: what's going on in london? | 09:49 |
| abelli | hmm dunno | 09:50 |
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