Ubuntu Documentation

=== Burgundavia [~Burgundav@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:01] African Greetings [07:21] enrico: I have added OMF files for FAQ and QG. Build needs to install them. === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:11] enrico: you got the updates [11:12] hello froud! [11:12] hello [11:12] you got the message re OMF [11:12] You mean, yesterday's changes? Yes, I've seen them last night [11:12] no todays [11:12] check list [11:12] I fixed the makefile to point xsltproc to DocBook 4.2.1's catalogs [11:12] :-) thannks === enrico checks list [11:14] oh, great! [11:15] so the build needs four omfs and registration [11:16] we can't get it into array 6, Kamion already just released it [11:17] Array 6 does install the doc packages though :-) [11:17] so users will get our updates [11:17] oh, so we're already in the main seed and stuff [11:18] or desktop seed [11:18] sure [11:18] (I still haven't gotten around so know these seeds things very well) [11:18] once we have the new build it will show in Yelp [11:19] At present they dont show [11:21] froud: is faq.omf about the FAQ Guide? [11:21] yes [11:21] rename if you need [11:21] ok, I'll change the title then (It's the Unofficial Ubuntu Guide) [11:22] Perhaps we can work on that for Grumpy and make it official :-) [11:22] And the creator is more like Chua Wen Kiat [11:22] yes [11:23] And it's (argh) for Warty [11:23] (now that I see the title on ubuntuguide.org [11:23] ) [11:23] yes, I know [11:23] Now that the quickguide is almost finished, we could coordinate with Chua about upgrading the guide for Hoary [11:23] yes but it must be done in svn [11:24] otherwise plovs work was for nothing [11:24] sure. It could be the moment in which we converge [11:24] Another thing I had in mind for post-quickguide was to get access to some document in /usr/share/doc/ [11:25] I'll make a wikipage for post-hoary docteam ideas [11:25] yes, it bothers me that everyone is off doing their own thing. We need a focused effort [11:25] like a brainstorming page [11:25] which calls for a meeting soon [11:26] like there is an Unofficial User Guide :-( [11:26] All this defocused stuff will get confusing for the user [11:26] b'side we need the help [11:42] 2 new people subscribed to our commits mailing list today [11:43] I asked ari if he will be staying with us for grumpy develop. If he is we should create him an account. [11:45] enrico: did you manage to build it and see it in yelp [11:45] I built. Now I try to install it [11:45] morning all [11:46] boker tov [11:46] morning sivang ! [11:46] hey enrico, froud [11:46] froud: did you get along with making the docs appear in yelp? [11:46] :-) yep [11:47] we're cooking with gas now [11:47] sivang: enrico is just testing the packaging build [11:48] froud: Ok, I get them inside the "Generic" category" === froud sets reminder to file bug for mdz about scrollkeeper, db 4.3 and xml catalog problem [11:48] enrico: ok let me build an dtest it too [11:49] all your commits in [11:50] Things show up nicely, except the image in the "Abount Ubuntu" page [11:50] froud: there's a very new commit fixing the title in the QUickGUide OMF [11:50] froud: yep, it's mportant :) [11:50] enrico: Howdy! [11:56] enrico: nice, all there and working. Now it would be better if we can get the Ubuntu Docs on the default yelp page [11:57] froud: yes... dunno how to do it, though [11:57] that make two of us [11:57] but I can try to figure out [11:57] :-) [11:57] gimme a hint and I will help [11:58] I'm reporting some tons of bug atm [11:58] enrico: I think I can help here [11:58] sivang: Please do [11:58] enrico: (wrt your last question in -devel) [11:58] sivang: go on then what do we need to do [11:58] enrico: is the omf file available from the source pkg? [11:58] froud: and how about the image in the about ubuntu document? Does it show up in your yelp? [11:59] thom appears to hav already helped you [11:59] no yelp is to stupid [11:59] sivang: yes, but his help is not accessible [12:00] enrico: oh how come? :-/ [12:00] sivang: the mail has not reached the list (possibly moderated) [12:00] enrico: anyway , svn co url is the way to go if you just want to checkout the doc repor without having an account right? (I'm doing a couple of thins in between and can't set up my account now) [12:01] sure: plese svn co the thing [12:01] enrico: k, thanks. [12:02] http//docs.ubunut.com right? [12:02] sivang: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk [12:03] froud: tnx [12:04] checking out [12:09] enrico: where in trunk are the omf files? [12:09] sivang: debian/ [12:09] eh found [12:09] enrico: yes, sorry === enrico goes for lunch [12:19] enrico: I'm trying something at it , let's see what comes out :) [12:46] nice snow storm here [12:46] sivang: thanks! [12:49] enrico: hey I envy you for being in Italy in a nice snow storm [12:49] :) === enrico feels too cold to be envied [01:04] enrico: ping again [01:04] pong [01:04] enrico: I think I can creat a topleve catagory for our docs , still checking :) === sivang is building a new yelp with the elleged catagories in [01:07] bah it takes long to build [01:07] sivang: sure it does :( [01:08] finished :) [01:08] installing (over my system) [01:08] now let's check [01:08] got it! [01:08] I did it :) [01:09] it works? WOW! I want to see [01:09] enrico: it's only an catagory addition, would you like to take on from here? [01:09] enrico: I have some bugs I'm fighting with at moment besides that [01:09] :) [01:09] sivang: just show me what you did [01:09] enrico: but that was satisfactory [01:09] enrico: sure :) [01:09] a patch (svn diff) or something [01:09] if it's short, paste it here [01:10] froud: do you still need a hand for those validity errors? [01:11] enrico: how do I hand install file to scrollkeepr database? [01:11] enrico: yes [01:11] froud: gnam gnam, let's see... [01:13] sivang: scrollkeeper-install? [01:13] sivang: post that patch! :) [01:14] enrico: http://scrollkeeper.sourceforge.net/documentation/writing_scrollkeeper_omf_files/ar01s08.html#skomf-registering [01:14] sivang: that link is for oyu [01:15] you can also test it [01:15] scrollkeeper-install -i -p foo_db_dir foo.amf [01:15] omf [01:16] enrico: eh, I see now I only managed to add a toplever catagory in yelp, but there is apparently more work to do to make it a "section" with the docs underneath it [01:16] enrico: dunno if I will get to those valid errors in FAQ [01:16] froud: what would the 'base' attribute do in the element? [01:17] sivang: would you mind telling us HOW you did it? [01:17] enrico: ok, I don't think you would need a patch for that, here goes: [01:17] enrico: go to /usr/share/yelp [01:17] enrico: then edit the file toc.xml [01:18] enrico: [01:18] Ubuntu Documentation [01:18] [01:18] add this [01:18] and you get a nice toplevel catagory in yelp [01:18] now, how do you make it corrospond to a scrollkeeper databse entry.. [01:19] oh, ok. That's a problem for me anyway, because my .debs can't change a file belonging to another package [01:19] enrico: a patch for this file should go into yelp source package, [01:20] enrico: if you want it to get installed. and yelp is the package which installs it [01:20] oh, yes, trye [01:20] oh, yes, true [01:20] enrico: I hope I helped a bit :-/ [01:20] I forgot that we have the freedom of patching the other packages :) [01:20] enrico: hehehe [01:21] enrico: where do you have a @base? [01:21] enrico: I can patch it for you if you like, I am just still trying to figure how to match between yelp toc.xml and the db catagories [01:21] enrico: and seb would review/upload [01:22] sivang: sounds good, let's try that. When you got how to have an "Ubuntu" cagetory, we can just use that [01:22] that'd be really nice! [01:23] froud: it's when validating things: it tells me "faqs/GettingStarted.xml:9: element chapter: validity error : No declaration for attribute base of element chapter" [01:23] I'll start fixing all of them, as soon as I can understand the error message :) [01:25] froud: ops. While googling I see that someone asked the same question, but got few results [01:25] froud: and he was some "Sean Wheller" :) [01:27] it's happened to me before to look for my problem in Google and to find... my problem, reported by me (or someone working with me) months ago already [01:29] Hmm the xml base problem. [01:31] Docbook 4.1.2 did not know what to do if xinlcude docs are not in the same dir as the including file [01:31] Obviously that was one of the reasons why I used Docbook 4.3 :-) [01:31] uhm... thinking [01:31] so solve this we can mv all docs in faqs to .. [01:31] then change the fileref values [01:31] that was what I was thinking [01:32] you want to do it or shall I [01:32] I do it [01:32] ok [01:34] enrico: more of a problem is what is the sect-general that all those xrefs link to [01:34] I don't see any section called General Notes [01:34] froud: that is? [01:34] Oh. You can see it in ubuntuguide.org [01:35] it's like a disclaimer [01:35] strange it's not in the repo [01:35] Hmm ok [01:36] found it [01:37] wierd it is in the document &general-notes; [01:38] froud: committed: now it works [01:38] I'll also rename faq2.xml in something else [01:41] I'm checking Chua Wen Kiat's blog: he appeared in another 2 newspaper articles! [01:44] enrico: any progress? [01:45] sivang: the FAQ Guide now validates [01:45] froud, sivang: DocteamPostHoary ! [01:49] enrico: what? [01:49] sivang: it's a wiki page [01:49] enrico: I can't figure out what needed to be done furhter to make the yelp catagory valid [01:49] enrico: sorry [01:49] sivang: no problem [01:49] enrico: darn, this yelp --> scrollkeepr relationships stuff is pretty complex === froud wants to kill yelp altogether. The days of help viewer apps is gone [01:51] Oh and Jeff agrees [01:51] :-) [01:52] I don't know what to say: at the conf they liked the idea of the about page showing up in yelp... [01:53] about page and ubuntu docs should be under firefox [01:53] use mono to create a toc [01:53] much easier [01:53] people who use man, use cli [01:54] enrico: did you rename faqqqq2.xml [01:54] enrico: did you rename faq2.xml [01:57] froud: since when did he agree with that? [01:57] since he sent mail yesterday === froud knows sivang does not actually read the list [01:58] froud: no, I didn't rename it [01:58] froud: you mean to the doc list? [01:58] are you going to [01:58] froud: I don't get how mono creates documentation tocs :) [01:58] sivang: the one and only [01:58] froud: i thought about doing so, if that is not a problem [01:58] froud: or how it can be used to created documentation either [01:58] enrico: let do it [01:59] sivang: huh now you lost me [01:59] well, I can't give hand to this :) I'm a shaunm fanboy and on his mub ;-)) [01:59] too bad his not around at the moment, otherwise he would help us alot [01:59] sivang: most of the packaging problems we are having are caus eof yelp/omf/scrollkeeper [01:59] froud: "faqguide.xml", allright? [02:00] we just don't know them too well :) [02:00] enrico: not particular just give it a name [02:00] but remember to update the build [02:00] I will adjust the makefile [02:01] froud: renamed. Testing... [02:04] froud: committed. Makefile should be ok as well [02:05] now I'm considering renaming the OMF files adding the language code [02:05] I think it is a good idea. thom is right about that [02:05] I'm on it, then [02:06] thanx dude you're a star. I just don't have much time now to get into new things [02:07] Trying to prepare for Linux World JHB [02:08] but I had a brain fart and cant think waht to write [02:08] froud: white page panic? [02:09] enrico: brain fart two para then stop [02:09] delete [02:09] two para [02:09] delete [02:09] two para [02:09] delete [02:09] froud: take some playing cards, and some post-it notes [02:10] froud: brainstorm silly ideas for contents on the post-it notes, and stick one idea to one playing card [02:10] froud: (use the back of the card, so that the image doesn't distract you) [02:10] froud: after you have your deck of ideas, spread it on the table [02:10] froud: then, group them without thinking, according to your instinct [02:11] its always easy to write for everyone else but never easy to write for ones self [02:11] froud: don't ask yourself questions and don't think while you group them (also while you brainstorm them, if you want) [02:11] froud: after you're satisfied with grouping, turn your rational mind back on and look at what you have and what are the groups [02:11] froud: this is called "Card sorting" and it's very useful [02:12] does that work [02:12] froud: very well for me [02:12] must be an Italian thingy [02:12] it allows you to "touch" your ideas, work on them freely on a large surface with two hands [02:12] never heard of it [02:12] lets try === froud goes to get a deck of card [02:13] froud: They do it, for example, when deciding which action goes on which menu on a user interface [02:13] and that's why the GUI is so confusing :-) [02:13] they prepare the cards, one card per program function, then ask a sample of users to group them [02:13] I didnt know that [02:13] that allows to have the actions sorted according to the brain model of the users and not the one of the developers [02:14] cool ide [02:14] idea [02:14] I don't know, however, which applications have been designed like this [02:17] OK I am going back to the drawing board. Is there anything else left before I move [02:18] I'm quite satisfied with today. I could upload the new packages to Hoary and then look for mdz [02:18] sounds good [02:18] I have tons of things to ask him: freeze dates, yelp or not yelp, post-hoary goals, docteam meeting, notify us when app features change... [02:18] :w [02:19] ops [02:19] we still need to close some of those new menu items [02:19] I posted about them to the list [02:19] Seen it [02:19] pitty if we did not finish them [02:19] once we have done that we can do a final check and then final package [02:20] yes [02:20] then tag [02:20] and meet [02:20] I'll post a recap of things needing help in the list [02:20] yes! [02:20] and decide new directions for grumpy [03:06] are you guys planning a meeting? === froud nods [03:07] ah ok, I'll have to catch up a lot on -doc to see when and where. === froud looks at kubuntu and wonders how this will impact docteam === froud [~froud@ndn-165-131-148.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:48] froud: around? === dand [~dand@gw.datagroup.ro] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dand [~dand@gw.datagroup.ro] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === maskie [~maskie@196-30-108-208.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:44] enrico: what's up === froud just got back from 3 hours of lectures. enrico I am off for the night. send mail for the morning. [07:56] froud: ok. I had a chat with mdz, I'll post the results === abelli [~abelli@adsl-ull-150-5.41-151.net24.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:36] sivang: enrico: ChrisH [09:37] ping [09:37] Kinnison: ciao r you here? [09:38] abelli: pong [09:38] sivang: http://socrates.homedns.org/cms/ [09:38] tell me what you think [09:38] please [09:38] :)) [09:42] abelli: A M A Z I N G ! ! ! ! [09:42] sivang: is it this bad? [09:42] ahh.. right ;) [09:42] abelli: I want this also for my local website, simple CMS? [09:42] yes [09:43] abelli: amazing, really. [09:43] sivang: but let's see if ill be the italian loco leader anymore :( [09:44] abelli: why? [09:44] sivang: a person, complained about how, he said, i do direct the community.. [09:44] :(( [09:44] eh I se [09:44] see [09:44] well , what can say [09:44] the problem is, i didnt direct anything.. [09:44] hmm [09:45] well, then start directing :) [09:45] because ive been working on a proper website [09:45] to give support and blah blah blah.. [09:45] i did only one big mistake.. [09:45] :( [09:45] because i didnt want to leave user without a website.. [09:45] we had www.ubuntuitalia.it, opened up some weeks ago, [09:46] and this person helped with forums [09:46] ...now he goes here and there, saying hes ubuntuitalia.. [09:46] when i asked him to respect the code of conduct, he just complained with smurfix.. [09:47] im so sad [09:47] ..let make things clear.. [09:47] the other 99% of the ppl that worked in ubuntuitalia is with me.. [09:47] but im still sad [09:49] well, talk to smurfix and you would be alright [09:49] :) [09:49] sivang: he has no time for me today, hes going in london to tomorrow [09:49] abelli: eh, good for him :) [09:49] abelli: what's going on in london? [09:50] hmm dunno