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=== lamont wonders when x0rg will quit asking those damn questions
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lamontdpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/gnome-icon-theme_2.9.92-0ubuntu1_all.deb (--unpack):12:30
lamont trying to overwrite `/usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/gnome-run.png', which is also in package gnome-panel-data12:30
lamontdpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)12:30
=== lamont grumbles
zulthere there....there there12:31
zulooh...braveheart and a bugs life is on tv tonight12:31
lamontzul: which to watch.  which to watch.12:31
zulboth of course12:32
zulthe movies are one after the other12:32
lamontah, not simulcast, or you have DVR technology?12:32
lamontah, much better12:32
zulnah...im too cheap12:32
=== lamont has TiVo technology - way cool
zulwe cant get tivo in canada..we can go only get tivo like technology from either the cable company or the phone company12:34
GoneBoBthat technology is in a massive not-giong-anywhere-omg-legal-ramifications debacle here12:46
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mdkei've tried #ubuntu, and they can't help me. is anyone willing to help me out for a few minutes? i can't log into gnome (hoary)12:54
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AndyRhi all12:55
AndyRhas anyone seen this on hoary? usb 1-1: device not accepting address 11, error -11012:55
lamontseb128: you around?12:59
mdkethis sucks. I can't log into gnome because of weird permissions in my ~/. I can't change the permissions of my home directory, and when I create a new user it can't add a user to the home directory. 01:00
lamontgnome-icon-theme replaces: gnome-panel-data? (/usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/gnome-run.png)?01:00
seb128lamont: just fixed it by an upload like 20s ago01:00
lamontgnome-panel 2.9.3-0ubuntu1 was the old gnome-panel-data01:01
lamontit would help if my daughter actually had RAM in her computer... :0)01:01
lamontseb128: just wanted to make sure it wasn't sliding through the cracks.01:01
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mdkeis anyone able to help me? perhaps this is a known issue?01:03
lamontmdke: that's a #ubuntu question01:03
lamontand without a bunch more info, no clue what you need to fix01:04
mdkethey have not been able to help me01:04
mdkei tried :(01:04
mdkei was wondering if this was a known issue in hoary atm01:05
seb128is your partition mounted in ro ?01:05
mdkeseb128, yes that appears to be the problem01:05
seb128have you tried to reboot the box ?01:06
mdkeseb128, yeah :(01:06
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zenwheni am trying to upgrade from array 4 to array 601:07
zenwheni get this error01:07
seb128(g-i-t/panel ?)01:07
seb128mdke: what ?01:08
mdkeseb128, i wondered if what you said was aimed at me and i didn't understand it01:08
zenwhenunable ot overwrite /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/gnome-run, which is also in package gnome-pnael-data01:08
seb128speaking about this msg :p01:09
seb128gnome-icon-theme/gnome-panel conflict01:09
zenwhenWhat should I do01:09
seb128zenwhen: sudo apt-get -f install01:09
lamontzenwhen: or install gnome-panel until it makes it, and then dist-upgrade again...01:20
lamontseb128: how much of the libhowl elimination was you spacing out the uploads to let things build before their build-depending packages built?01:20
seb128time to get them available by apt on archive.u.c on my box01:21
seb128why ?01:22
lamontseb128: because sparc and hppa may have some challenges, then, I expect...01:23
lamontnot a big deal, more just curious01:23
seb128BTW I need to fix gnomedb for gnumeric01:23
seb128will do tomorrow01:23
lamontthat is, if timing was part of it, then that explains those issues...01:23
lamont(hppa currently has a libgnomeui build that fails because howl isn't there...01:23
seb128yeah, just keep kicking build to sort that :p01:23
lamontthere's nothing under it that I can see that needs it - gonna have to actually debug it I fear. :-)01:24
seb128I wonder if updating the Build-Depends is a better solution01:24
zenwhenI am running array six now01:24
seb128based on the update speed I've picked that option01:24
seb128I don't like to change the Build-Depends that much for this reason01:24
lamontyeah - not a big issues01:24
zenwhendoes grub seem a lot slower to anyone else?01:24
lamontseb128: my mirror is also generally struggling to keep up, so that could be it too...01:25
seb128lamont: libgnomeui needs libgnome (2.9.1-0ubuntu2), libbonoboui (2.8.1-1ubuntu1)01:29
lamontUnpacking libgnome2-dev (from .../libgnome2-dev_2.9.2-0ubuntu1_hppa.deb) ...01:32
lamontUnpacking libbonoboui2-dev (from .../libbonoboui2-dev_2.8.1-1ubuntu1_hppa.deb)01:32
lamontlibtool: link: `/usr/lib/libhowl.la' is not a valid libtool archive01:32
lamonthence my grumbling to myself01:33
seb128grep howl /usr/lib/*.la ?01:36
lamontyeah - installing build-deps now01:36
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zenwhennew linux users are going to be 500% more impressed with hoary than they were with warty01:37
lamontgrep -l libhowl /usr/lib/*01:37
zenwhenso much has happened between array 4 and array 601:37
zenwhenlittle things01:37
lamontseb128: which is to say that libbonoboui got built too soon...01:37
=== lamont brutalizes it
zenwhenis gnome enu editing going to be fixed soon?01:38
seb128not sure, we'll probably put a menu editor in universe for hoary01:39
jdubin gnome itself, it definitely won't be fixed for hoary01:39
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thierryhi, I'd like to try to fix ubuntu bug 4724 but I don't know where to take the source... can anyone tell me?01:40
seb128apt-get source mozilla-firefox ?01:40
thierryseb128, and where will this go?01:40
seb128in your current directory01:41
thierryok thanks01:41
srbakeranyone install from today's image?01:43
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sabdflnight all01:43
lamontseb128: fwiw, glibm2.4, gst-plugins0.8, and gtkmm2.4 all have non-PIC in shared libaries now...01:43
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seb128lamont: ftbfs ?01:44
lamontchecking that now - I believe amd64 will bitch01:44
seb128how have you noticed that ?01:45
seb128that surprising01:45
lamontwhich is also doing -Wl,--as-needed... /me turns that back off01:45
srbakerwhat partition tools exist that let me resize existing partitions.  anyone?01:45
lamontseb128: forget I said anything about those 301:46
seb128that's due to -Wl,--as-needed ?01:47
lamontdunno yet, but there aren't failures for amd64 or ia64, and I know ia64 would bitch01:47
lamontconfig changed, given back, we'll see how they do.  But I need to take a youngster shopping01:47
danielslamont: sup?01:50
zenwhenshould gnome "feel" slower now than it did in array 4?01:51
lamontdaniels: either I was bitching about xorg asking config questions over and over, or was going to comment on the PSC1315 issue01:51
zenwhenwell everything is drawing a bit slower. firefox scrolls choppier.01:51
zenwhenstuff like that01:52
danielslamont: heh :)01:52
seb128jdub: do you know what component handles the dynamic menu shortcuts ? gtk ?01:52
lamontdaniels: I found a gross hack that will let my wife use her psc1315, you see..01:52
seb128jdub: is that supposed to be kept ?01:52
lamontcomment in the bug01:52
seb128jdub: ie, if you restart the app01:52
jdubseb128: hrm...01:53
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seb128(because it doesn't)01:53
jdubseb128: and now there's a public preference for it... ;)01:54
jdubseb128: maybe ask one of the gtk dudes, i don't know if it's supposed since 1.x01:55
seb128k, thanks01:55
danielslamont: oh?01:55
lamontyeah... anytime xane isn't running, and ptal-mlcd is, you stop/start hpoj.  do that in a cronjob every 10 minutes and you get printing again.. :)01:56
seb128if anybody wants to debug the gossip ftbfs he's welcome01:56
zenwhenMy rendering slowness went away by disabling nvidia's renderaccell. 01:57
seb128gossip has not changed dunno why it doesn't like XScreenSaver01:57
zenwhenperhaps the new packages dont play well with it01:57
lamontthe strange thing is that it claims to find it, and in the next line claims that it couldn't.01:58
lamontlets blame autocrap?01:58
seb128seems to be an autofoo issue01:58
lamontInstalling new version of config file /etc/init.d/cupsys ...02:00
lamontHmm, cupsys won't stop... I wait 5 seconds...02:00
lamontRetrying to stop...02:00
lamont * Starting Common Unix Printing System: cupsd                           [ ok ] 02:00
=== lamont screams
lamontotoh, it did actually stop02:01
lamontjust not quickly enough02:01
seb128do we care about 386 support ?02:04
elmoour gcc compiles 486 code02:06
seb128k, thanks, what I was thinking02:07
lamontwow. -Wl,--as-needed b0rkage. bad jdub02:09
=== lamont goes shopping
jdubooh, you found breakage?02:09
lamontyeah.  glibmm2.4 is ftbfs (non-PIC in shared lib) with that, builds fine without02:11
lamontditto two others, see above02:11
lamontwell, I expect..02:11
lamonthappy to send you both logs, if you want them.  admittedly, they're from hppa.... :)02:11
danielslamont: blegh02:11
danielszenwhen: yeah, my current thinking is that render is broken02:11
lamontdaniels: I _SAID_ it was a gross hack...02:11
danielsi just don't know HOW02:11
seb128and jdub was trying to push the pkg-gnome guys to use that now02:12
seb128bad jdub :)02:12
jdubi was trying to convince them not to :)02:12
jdub"don't do it by default"02:12
jdub^ very important point :)02:12
seb128ah ah02:12
jdubone mention and suddenly they're all talking about "fixing" cdbs to use it02:12
jdubfinding breakage is good though02:13
lamontseb128: for that matter, debian's gcc compiles 486 code02:13
seb128if that's how we fix bug I'm curious to know how we break stuff :p02:13
seb128lamont: k02:13
jdubcrazy debian kids :)02:13
lamontback in a while02:13
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jbaileyjdub: I already said for it in general.  Offered it to sb for the Gnome module and he said no.  Open and closed, nice and easy...02:14
jbaileyalready said no, that is.02:14
jdubyeah, this was about discussion before that02:15
elmolamont: no it doesn't; it's libstdc++ uses a 486 locking instruction - it doesn't force 486 for everything tho, like we do02:18
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seb128is somebody using an http proxy and evolution webcal stuff ?02:20
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danielsseb128: you're just an apt-get install squid away from having it yourself ;)02:22
seb128yeah, but I'm lazy :p02:23
seb128daniels: BTW what's the standard way to know that xorg crashed ?02:23
seb128daniels: #7183, the guy has bugged on gdm but I guess that's an xorg crash02:23
danielsseb128: segfaults are typically recorded in Xorg.0.log02:23
danielsseb128: if it went down really, really, really hard, gdm will usually record it02:24
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seb128daniels: k, I'll ask if he has something in the gdm logs02:24
sivangseb128: awake so late?02:24
seb128no, I'm sleeping02:25
sivangseb128: hehe , so you're IRCing in your sleep then :)02:25
seb128some people talk while they sleep, I reply to bugzilla bugs for my part02:25
danielsseb128: already asked02:25
sivangseb128: lol, well, if you like uploading packages as well let me know :)02:26
seb128daniels: thanks02:26
seb128sivang: nop, just doing some bug cleanup, I keep the real work for tomorrow :)02:26
sivangseb128: ok my freind, well, laterz then - I will also head for bed :)02:27
ograhmm, esc should be disabled in pw dialog....tsts02:28
seb128ogra: it should not be counted as a char for the password :)02:29
ograhmm, but then we also should disable every non PW char .....02:29
ograF keys.... special chars02:30
seb128but some people hit esc to clear something02:30
ograi know...but thats the default behavior of this pw dialog, i didnt touch anything in this area....02:31
seb128gksudo does that fine02:31
seb128grab the code02:31
seb128jdub: you don't use an http proxy by any chance ? :p02:32
jdubi do02:32
ograi'll have to write a patch anyway for the finetuning before release... i'll look at it...02:32
jdubbeing on the other end of two tin cans and a piece of string from you02:32
seb128ah ah ah02:32
seb128jdub: adding a webcal:// in the calendar works fine with a proxy ?02:33
=== ogra slaps the string...
jdubone sec02:33
seb128jdub: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7212 ... in fact evolution and eds just crash if you set a proxy without having one02:33
seb128but dunno if you have one :)02:33
jdubwell, evo just dies in the arse on startup atm02:33
=== jdub pulls tb
seb128how nice, they have just changed the context menu in 2.1.6 this week02:34
seb128and they have dropped the "mark as read/..." options02:35
seb128with a working proxy ?02:36
seb128nice, I get the same with the IP of a non-proxy box as proxy02:37
jdubthis is on startup02:37
jdubeds crashes, then evo crashes02:37
jdubi have webcal stuff02:37
jduband it's opening the calendar at startup02:37
seb128and if you don't use a proxy ?02:37
seb128I guess that fixes the issue02:37
jdubsuck :)02:37
jdubno crash02:37
seb128yep, that's it02:37
seb128thanks :)02:38
jdubfound another nice calendar bug02:39
jdubif you assign a colour to Personal, a new calendar is created02:40
jdubrestart, and you have two Personal calendars02:40
jdubthe real one still doesn't have a colour ;)02:40
seb128I don't get this one02:41
seb128my default calendar has a color02:41
seb128and I can change it02:41
ograworks fine here02:42
seb128proxy or color ?02:43
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srbakeranyone here know if i can get the extended life battery for the X20 ?03:31
srbakeror is it only the X40?03:31
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BenoniWhere would I find the Kerberos 5 command line tools (e.g. "kinit") for Ubuntu Hoary?03:40
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BenoniQuestion withdrawn: #ubuntu folks pointed me at the "universe" repository.03:57
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thierryI'd like to fix ubuntu bug 3176 but I don't know where to make the changes in the firefox source... any ideas?04:57
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pvhI recently updated Hoary and I noticed there was some gui integration of power management mentioned in a config file, but I have not seen any evidence of it in Ubuntu itself.06:14
wasabii just upgraded and noticed my laptop has a suspect feature in the logoff screen06:14
wasabiscared to try it. ;)06:15
=== wasabi gives it a go!
pvhwasabi: Bye!06:15
wasabiwow, it went to sleep,06:15
wasabi<---- over there06:15
pvhwasabi: Hmm. I wonder why mine didn't show up.06:15
wasabibut that's nothing new06:15
wasabithe real question is can it wake up06:15
pvhwasabi: Did you sleep or hibernate?06:16
wasabino idea06:16
pvhI can suspend as long as my wireless card isn't in the machine.06:16
wasabiit's not waking up. it looks turned off now.06:16
wasabibut the power button doesn't work06:16
wasabinaw, caps lock light works.06:16
wasabiit's just not waking up06:16
pvhMove your mouse?06:17
wasabinot even responding to pings06:17
pvhDid it suspend fully?06:17
wasabiyeah. it did.06:17
wasabithen I tried to wake it06:17
wasabiIt hasn't been able to wake up since I used some guys custom kernel a year ago06:17
pvhWhat kind of laptop?06:17
pvhAh, beyond my ken.06:18
jdubpvh: log out dialogue06:20
lamontelmo: see the changelog for gcc-3.3_1:3.3.2ds0-0pre0:06:21
lamont  * Change ix86 default CPU type for code generation:06:21
lamont    - i386-linux       -> i486-linux06:21
pvhjdub: Yes, it's not in there.06:21
jdubpvh: you probably haven't restarted gnome-session since upgrading06:21
lamontelmo: 12 Aug 200306:21
pvhjdub: I have, many times. :)06:21
jdubcheck /etc/default/acpi-support settings06:22
pvhjdub: Okay, any specific file?06:22
jdubthat's pretty specific already06:22
pvhEr, sorry, any specific setting .:)06:22
jdubdelve, discover, experiment06:23
jdubcheck the patch06:23
pvhjdub: I'm quite familiar with the laptop settings.06:23
pvhjdub: I've been using the command-line to do everything for a couple months now.06:24
pvhjdub: I was hoping you would be referring to some line in acpi-support which I didn't have.06:24
pvhjdub: "like ENABLE_LOGOUT_MENU or such"06:24
lamontcdrecord: Warning: Running on Linux-2.6.10-3-k706:30
lamontcdrecord: There are unsettled issues with Linux-2.5 and newer.06:30
lamontcdrecord: If you have unexpected problems, please try Linux-2.4 or Solaris.06:30
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Amaranthjdub: What's up with #twisted? :)07:22
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crimsunmorning :-)08:52
sivanghey crimsun 08:52
crimsun'lo sivang 08:53
sivangcrimsun: what's up? working on kubuntu?08:53
crimsunactually extracting some patches from beep-media-player's release_0_9_7_1 branch08:53
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sivangcrimsun: just woke up, after about 3 hours of sleep, couldn't continue sleeping though :)08:56
sivangcrimsun: oh goody, I will test them, I wanted to get beep since I first saw it over a freind's house 2 days ago :)08:56
crimsunsivang: sunlight too bright? ;-)08:56
sivangcrimsun: hehe, not even that. you know, it happens sometime, doubts, thoughts, fears for the future - they can sometime keep you up :)08:57
crimsunsivang: true :-)08:57
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sivanghey dilinger 09:01
sivanghey sid77 09:01
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Kamionjdub: for future reference, the answer to pvh's PM question was that he needs to set RESUME= in /etc/mkinitrd/mkinitrd.conf and regenerate the initrd10:10
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tp__anybody know any wireless dropping not able to reconnect problems with hoary (ibm t42, new install)12:12
GheRiverores people12:12
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tp__is daniels there12:39
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sabdfltp__: do you have netapplet installed?12:41
sabdflhey rubenv12:41
tp__doesn't look like it12:41
sivanghey sabdfl 12:42
tp__sabdfl: just rebooting the laptop so I can get my network back. :-)12:43
sivangsabdfl: Yes Mark, Did I do anything wrong? :-)12:43
sivangsabdfl: finished burning daily live, will give it a couple of runs now :)12:43
rubenvsabdfl: goodmorning12:43
sabdflnot afaik, except maybe forgetting to enjoy the sunshine on a sunday. i'm in london, there is no sunshine, that's my excuse12:44
sabdflrubenv: i've been hacking on the bounty tracker this weekend12:44
tp__sabdfl: sunny in leeds here but inside working :-(12:44
rubenvsabdfl: is it running on the dogfood thing?12:44
sabdflnow allows for subscriptions to bounties, so people can keep up to date with a bounty12:45
rubenvsabdfl: i've been thinking about interface details, perhaps I should write em down12:45
sabdflalso, beginnings of ability to link a bounty to projects, products or distros12:45
sabdflsubscriptions don't actually do anything, but in future will have email notifications12:45
rubenvsabdfl: excellent, tracking is what makes bugzilla kick arse, it's definitely something needed in bounties12:45
sivangsabdfl: oh well, not that sunny here currently, it's getting couldy, the short term summer we've had is ending as it seems :)12:45
tp__sabdfl: yes I do have netapplet installed12:46
rubenvit's sunny here, but the pool is still frozen, i'd rather not go outside now ;-)12:46
sabdfltp__: it's crackful, remove it from your panel12:46
tp__ok cheers!!12:46
sivangrubenv: you in .au right?12:46
sabdflsee if that helps12:46
rubenvsivang: .be12:46
tp__sabdfl: I'll send some of my sunshine down if it works ;-)12:47
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sivangrubenv: oh, EU right?12:47
sivangseb128: Bon Jour :)12:47
rubenvwish i was in .au, then i could go to ubuntu down under (well, if university stops bugging me :))12:47
rubenvsivang: belgium, a neighbour country of germany :-)12:47
sivangrubenv: I just wasn't sure about .be being belguim, but I know where it is :)12:48
rubenvsabdfl: I really wish I had the time to poke around with zope, stupid university12:48
rubenvwell, not stupid, important but annoying :-)12:48
sivangsabdfl: is the bounties tracker already available from the launchpad domain?12:48
rubenvsabdfl: we'll also need to find a way to insert mockups etc, like gnome does, I really like those12:50
rubenvsabdfl: starting to look very neat12:51
=== rubenv out to study
sivangseb128: http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/g-c-m/ :-)12:52
sivangsabdfl: are we going to support KDE in rosetta also? (thinking of launchpad integration into the desktop implications)12:54
opiI think Rosetta is needed also for KDE12:55
danielssivang: i believe so, yes12:55
danielsgiven it's in main and all ;)12:55
Riddellwhat's the advantage of rosetta?  KDE is already translated into oodles of langauges?12:56
opiRiddell, some projects aren't :)12:56
opiRiddell, it won't hurt to have something for a quick help12:56
opiRiddell, and this translation will be commited upstream, so project authors will be happy :-)12:57
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danielsRiddell: mainly just having a central co-ordination prospect.  even assuming the world is kde, it means you don't need an account for kde, all of the external kde apps, d-bus, gstreamer, etc, etc.12:58
tp__daniels: do you mind if I ask about your x40 package. Have people provided feedback on whether it works for t42?12:58
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danielstp__: sure -- dunno, should just work out of the box without my packages01:02
tp__tp__: thanks.. it's the suspend to disk I'm looking at.. I'll play some more to see where I can get :-)01:03
tp__daniels: ermm.. :-)01:03
danielsdunno about StD, to be honest01:04
danielsnever used it01:04
tp__daniels: do you just power off? or suspend to ram?01:05
danielstp__: str has always worked fine for me01:05
tp__daniels: thanks again01:06
sivangdaniels: that's what I feard :) oh well, hard work is good for you.01:18
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psy__hi carlos 01:30
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abellicould someone explain me differences between abiword, abiword-common, abiword-gnome?01:52
jdubabiword-common is used by both01:53
jdubabiword-gnome is built against gnome libs01:53
abellimmm... ahh right so the difference is in the "GTK2", and "GTK2/GNOME2"01:54
abellijdub: thank you01:54
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zuljdub: ping02:42
zulnot much you?02:42
zenwhenGuys, I am pretty sure that pango is slow as crap in hoary right now. I can't be dreaming this.02:43
zenwhenMy system feels like its a 300Mhz celeron with 128MB of ram when i switch tabs in firefox or xchat.02:43
zenwhenRendering is slow as crap.02:44
zenwhenThats whats up wiht me. :P02:44
nasdaq300mhz celeron02:44
nasdaqthose were good days02:44
zenwhenmy fingers are dyslexic02:44
zenwhennot when you are really running a 3Ghz P402:44
nasdaqi was 10 years younger02:44
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zuloh yeah...inotify 0.20 is working on my system if anyone is keeping out with it02:52
seb128there is a kernel with it in the archive ?02:54
zulnot yet02:56
zulim still testing it i can make it available if you want02:56
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seb128not now, but thanks03:01
zulok ill wait for tseng then03:01
zulit hasnt crashed on me yet though03:01
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jljanyone with a US credit card feel like testing pymusique? http://fuware.nanocrew.net/pymusique/03:02
tsenghi zul 03:06
zulinotify 0.20 is ready for you to test03:07
tsengi see, thank you03:07
tsenghave you tried mounting/unmounting usb drives?03:07
zulyeah no problems for me no oopses or anything03:07
thierryhi, I'd like to fix ubuntu bug 3176 but I can't find where to fix it in the firefox source... anyone can help me?03:08
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tsengzul: i cant automount my ipod03:24
zulcrap. whats wrong?03:24
tsengdunno yet03:24
tsengill look for it in hal03:24
tsengactually hal-device-manager looks to be missing most things03:25
zulyou did inotify at boot?03:26
tsengrestarting hal fixed, maybe not related03:26
zuland you got the following inotify device minor=63?03:27
tsengI can unmount and eject w/ no oops03:27
tsengcould just be a random hal thing03:27
zuland gamin should be working like it usually does03:28
tsenginotify backend still has the /media polling issue03:28
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zulill be around later though03:30
zulhave to go do errands03:30
thierryhi, I'd like to fix ubuntu bug 3176 but I can't find where to fix it in the firefox source... anyone can help me?03:33
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zenwhen7MB faq :/ 03:52
zenwhenthis is going to make upgrading hoary a pain03:53
zenwhenon dialup03:53
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psy__thierry: where are the bug-reports?03:55
psy__nm, found it03:56
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Q-FUNKhi!  where does this meeting take place? http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda04:10
ograQ-FUNK: in #ubuntu-meeting04:12
ograbut the agenda is totally outdated.....thets the one from the last meeting04:13
Q-FUNKorgo, thanks04:13
Q-FUNKwell... I just added myself to the agenda.04:13
ograMartinEricRacine ?04:13
Q-FUNKogra: I'll let you update the agenda then.  :)04:14
ograits a mako job....i'll tell him that your entry should stay04:14
Q-FUNKogra: ok, thanks :)04:14
Q-FUNKis the march 8th date and time still good, though?04:14
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ograQ-FUNK: btw, are you going for MOTU ?04:20
Q-FUNKogra: I'll be happy enough just maintaining my existing Debian packages and uploading them directly to Ubuntu also.04:22
Q-FUNKogra: but sure, why not. ;)04:22
ograQ-FUNK: so feel invited to #ubuntu-motu then ;)04:22
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abellipitti: bon hour04:35
abelli..bon jour04:35
ograhi pitti04:35
pittiHi abelli, hi ogra04:35
=== pitti just returned from skiing
pittiheaps and heaps of snow here :-)04:35
=== abelli is not able to
ograyup, here too04:36
pittiabelli: you should learn it, it's fun04:36
abellithe same here. and i'm hill04:37
pittiand exercise04:37
=== ogra watches the news with tons of crash reports
_d4vidhi all04:37
abellipitti: i like sleds04:37
pittiabelli: ill? that's bad04:38
abellipitti: mmm yeah.. a real saturday night fever04:39
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seb128pitti: here ?04:42
pittiseb128: yes, hi Seb04:43
seb128could you please update the language-pack ?04:43
pittiwhich one?04:43
seb128that's a shame, we have the current GNOME bug with outdated translation04:43
pittiactually I wanted to update them at Tuesday04:43
seb128that bother people who want to make that good for 2.1004:43
pittibut I can do it earlier if necessary04:43
seb128or screenshots for 2.1004:43
seb128now please04:44
pittiseb128: however, the langpacks are still imperfect04:44
seb128it that some real work or just a batch tor run ?04:44
pittiseb128: without Rosetta, I miss lots of translations04:44
seb128pitti: yeah, but I get complain from GNOME translators04:44
seb128pitti: the upstream level is good and we fuck it up 04:45
pittiseb128: did you upload the new packages?04:45
seb128what new package ?04:45
seb128I've updated GNOME stuff all the week04:45
jordiseb128: how many ubuntu specific strings are there in Hoary?04:45
jordiwhere can I find them to translate them in a little while?04:45
seb128jordi: really few04:45
seb128jordi: s/Computer/System for the panel :p04:45
pittiseb128: okay, I kick langpack-o-matic04:45
seb128pitti: thanks04:45
pitticarlos: any ETA for Rosetta?04:46
pittiseb128: basically I just ignore all packages which have two or more domains04:46
jordipoor carlos and daf04:46
pittiseb128: i. e. gtk etc.04:46
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seb128pitti: so we don't have translations for this ?04:46
jordiseb128: how can I know if Catalan is up to date with that string?04:46
pittiseb128: no, my current hackish scripts don't support multiple domains04:46
jordiseb128: and if it isn't, it's "Sistema" :)04:46
carlospitti: working on it04:47
seb128jordi: dunno, talk with Rosetta guy, we are supposed to have some integration with the distro :p04:47
seb128pitti: arrrg04:47
carlospitti: daf comes back to Valencia with me to finish it04:47
pittiseb128: gosh, and we recently modified the output format04:47
pittiseb128: so I first have to hack on my scripts before I can trigger the update04:47
pittiand before that I need to fix pkgstriptranslations04:47
Goshawkplease say to me if this is off topic: Something that we can call "usermode splash" (or maybe usplash) have been relased at 0.1 alpha, i need some testers, is there somebody that want to try it?04:49
jordiseb128: ok so he's telling me I'm supposed to download the ubuntu gnome-panel source and submit a patch04:49
seb128jordi: no really04:51
seb128not really even04:51
seb128jordi: see with carlos/rosetta guys/pitti how the translations are managed for the language-packs04:52
carlosseb128: until we finish Rosetta changes, he needs to do that04:52
jordiseb128: see? :)04:53
carlosseb128: if he cannot wait04:53
seb128I can't handle updating translations for every single GNOME package04:53
seb128I'm already busy without that04:53
jordinothing like chatting with someone 3 metres away from you :)04:53
seb128ah ah04:53
kentGoshawk, i can test it. I run Hoary. (Is it the usplash mentioned on ubuntu's wiki?04:53
jordiseb128: d'oh I^Wwe thought you were superseb.04:54
Goshawkkent, it started in collaboratio with Paul SLaden (Usplash project manager)04:54
Goshawkkent, but it works a bit different04:54
seb128jordi: update evo to 2.0.4 and I'll consider updating the ca.po :p04:54
Goshawkkent, more quick and easy04:54
Goshawkkent, since it is all in one porgram04:54
Goshawkkent, no, usrquit, usplat and so on04:54
Goshawkkent, just one executable: "/sbin/usplash" 04:55
jordiseb128: grumble. hrm.04:55
=== jordi starts a gal build.
kentGoshawk, will read that page soon.04:55
Goshawkkent, in that page there is also the link04:55
jordiseb128 is silly an annoying. I just want you guys to know. :)04:55
Goshawkfor the deb download04:55
=== seb128 slaps jordi
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jordiluckily sabdfl didn't read what I just said.04:57
kentGoshawk, will installing that deb package configure it, or is there some files to read in that archive?04:57
Goshawkkent, no04:57
Goshawkkent, all is done by postinst script04:57
Goshawkyou have to do04:57
sabdfltut tut. trading favours.04:57
Goshawkdpkg -i usplash..... and reebot04:57
Goshawkkent, you can download the sources from svn 04:58
Goshawkkent, all the specifications are in that page04:59
kentGoshawk, Downloading it now.  Give me a few minutes and you will get a report on how it worked :)04:59
Goshawkkent, it works at 100% on my pc, but it is the same pc wher it is developed05:00
kentGoshawk, so I have installed it now. (Do mind i run Hoary, i dont know if that will be a problem..).  Im rebooting now to check it. By  by :)05:02
Goshawki hope it will work fine05:02
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=== froud leaving message for mvo and mitario. Please contact me when you come on I need to release Update Manager Manual V0.0.1 to you.
Goshawkkent, yes or not?05:06
kentGoshawk, error 23: error while parsing number.05:06
Goshawkwhen?? after swithced to tty8?05:07
Mithrandirjdub: flumotion doesn't work properly on amd64! :(05:07
kentGoshawk, I get that errror right after grub has loaded.05:07
Goshawkuhm... it seems a postinst problem05:07
Goshawkkent, just one thing, can you mail me your /boot/grub/menu.lst?05:08
Riddelljdub: any idea what the typeface used in the ubuntu logo is?05:08
kentGoshawk, yes, wait a second. I booted with the rescue-kernel so i have no X at the moment. Il mail you as soon as  I can :)05:09
Goshawkok... thanks again... but is the frmebuffer active?05:09
kentGoshawk, if you meen if the framebuffer is active when i get that message, No.. i dont think so, though im unsure of how to tell that right now :(05:10
kentGoshawk i will quit irc for a min. Will mail you soon. By for now.05:11
ograRiddell: looked at kubuntu yesterday, nice work....05:12
jordiI will kill05:14
jordiso evolution bumps the gal dependency to 2.2.505:14
jordithe changes between 2.2.4 and 2.2.5 is an Italian update05:14
=== T-None is now known as T-Bone
Riddellconvert -kubuntu ogra05:15
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ograRiddell: i would suggest to get rid of the bracket stuff from the menu, its improved a lot already, but still a bit to much info :)05:16
Riddellogra: bracket stuff?05:16
dokopitti: ping?05:16
pittidoko: pong05:16
kentGoshawk, could you please again tell me your email?  /msg me if you dont want to repeat publicly..     Im in X now so i can send you the file..05:17
ograRiddell: in the normal menus you have a nice description as menu entry plus the app name in brackets05:17
Goshawkthanks kent 05:18
Goshawki think that the problem is there05:18
Riddellogra: oh yes.  KDE likes  "Description (AppName)"05:18
ograRiddell: in the game menus you have the category as entry and the appname in brackets .... etc05:18
Riddellogra: gnome likes "Description" which seems strange to me05:18
Riddellogra: what's your preference?05:18
ograRiddell: not if you only have one app for every task....05:18
Riddellogra: what does gnome do if you have two e-mail clients installed for example?05:19
ograRiddell: it gets weird if you have one app twice for one task though05:19
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ograRiddell: there is only one that is named Emal Client (only the gnome included one (evo)) the other shows its name05:19
Riddellogra: dunno if I like not having app names, seems strange to me05:20
ograRiddell: so keep the app names....as you like, but i would definately get rid of one of them....05:21
ogra...but i'm only a gnome guy, so dont take me to serious ;)05:23
Riddellogra: when it comes to usability I do take gnome seriously05:24
Riddellexcept for file open dialogues :)05:24
zenwheni like gnome's file open dialogues05:25
zenwhenI dont feel that there is only one "right way" to do file open dialogues05:25
ograRiddell: they are getting better ;)05:26
ograRiddell: there just was a complete redisign of the file open dialogue....so it takes some time to get it right....05:26
zenwheni kind of left #slackware and the distro because the kde guys were always throwing  in these little "clever remarks" whenever someone mentioned gnome. then Pat dropped gnome.05:30
Riddellzenwhen: you should see #ubuntu whenever someone mentions KDE.  not pretty05:31
zenwhenI cam to Ubuntu because of the "no KDE", and kubuntu keeps it at a safe distance from my install disk. So by association with my anti-kde feelings, I alove the kubuntu project. :)05:31
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kentGoshawk, with the vga correcly set it now boots. But the graphic looks borked (not so good at english, but i think that word could descripe it.) 05:33
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Goshawkborked? i'm not english native...05:34
Goshawkgonna see to bork on dict05:34
mdzthat's ok, borked isn't an english word :-)05:34
mdzit means approximately "broken"05:35
=== psy__ came to ubuntu by accident, i wrecked my gentoo and ubuntu was the only distro around at the time. :p
psy__i love it :)05:35
Goshawkbroken??? uhm... in wich sense?? do you get a black screen?05:35
zenwhenI am running totally up to date hoary05:35
zenwhenand though it could be better in areas I love it05:36
psy__Goshawk: in the sence the package-manager did not work anymore and the basic tools like cat, cp, mv, ls and ln where linked to a non-existing copy of busybox.05:37
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psy__gotta get some food, brb05:37
=== Mithrandir kicks gstreamer
jordihopefully I won't regret this05:53
=== jordi starts uploading evolution bits.
ograbits ?05:54
tsengzul: still no crashes05:54
tsengzul: im happy.05:54
jordiogra: gal, gtkhtml, etc05:54
Treenaksjordi: *shudder*05:55
jordiTreenaks: yeah dude05:55
ograjordi: so it could be that i see the fonts in one mail in the same size for every row again ?05:55
jordiI might get some ninjas in the hotel room tonight05:55
ograthat'd be so great05:55
jordino, that would mean Kitame wants to kill little jordi05:56
ograhe wont get you ... youre a to fast runner i guess :)05:56
ograeven with ninjys05:56
ograninjas even05:57
jordininjas can throw sharp stuff at you05:57
ograjordi: depends how far youre away then, youre not the thickes iirc ----05:58
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jordiogra: heh, yeah that could be an advantage.06:01
jordiI could shield behind carlos too06:01
jordiogra: so we met in Matar?06:01
jordidamn, I'm so bad at remembering peole06:01
carlosjordi: carlos? carlos? where? when?06:02
jordisorry :)06:02
Treenaksjordi: he's one of the german guys :P06:02
ograjordi: http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/OliverGrawert06:02
jordiif you were near treenaks, he got all the attention :)06:02
kentGoshawk, I do get some grapgics, its just that its.. hard to see the logo.  Have you ever  used a monitor which tries to use modes it cant have? Its sort of like that, but since its a low resolution, its something else that is broken.. dont know what. Im not a native speaker aswell, so its very hard to explain :(06:02
Treenaksjordi: I did? :)06:02
jordiI remember perfectly now06:02
jordiTreenaks: of course dude06:03
Treenakscool :)06:03
jordiit's cool that you remember me. :)06:04
jordiHey I now have my own mag.,06:04
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jordiit is great, have a look, gimme a second to find an url06:04
jordi3 and it's yours06:07
jordigood articles in there06:07
ograhamm, catalan class included ?06:08
jordithat's Spanish, but yeah, issue #2 has this great "learn Catalan in 13 minutes" course06:08
ogralearn Catalan in 13 minutes if you know spanish you mean....06:09
jordino, no. No previous knowledge required. I tell you, my mag is going to be great and I'll be rich in 3 months.06:09
abellijordi: what about me?06:11
psy__is there a way to put unicode-strings in gtk-Labels ?06:12
jordiabelli: are you left handed?06:15
abellijordi: no06:16
abellijordi: not that i know ;)06:18
jordiabelli: sorry then. I'm going to use an indecent amount of money paying left handed people to annoy right handed people. It will be a worldwide lefthanded revolt, for all the years we've been using scissors, pens, oven gloves, computer mouses and laptop touchpads designed for righthanded.06:18
jordithis is going to be great.06:19
jordianyway, this is offtopic here. :)06:19
abellijordi: i can be the most left handed for an arm developer's board06:19
abelli...it'll be a life-lasting contract06:19
dholbachjordi: if you keep on telling me your plans for world domination, please give me a subscription of your mag, send it to ...06:20
abellijordi: are you jdub's allied?06:21
psy__pango is confusing me :p06:21
Treenaksabelli: he's the European uplink station for the GNOME orbital laser platform, afaik06:21
abelliTreenaks: ohh i see.06:23
abellijordi: what about your magazine?06:23
zultseng: good no crashes06:24
jordiabelli: people will buy it massively because it's cool. It's like a fundraiser for my evil anti-right-handed plans.06:24
abellijordi: can we have a bonus-just-to-get-known trial?06:25
jordinope, sorry. this is going to sell all alone, no ads or anything needed06:26
abelliright. no bonus copies then?06:26
psy__does anyone know a good pango tutorial?06:26
dholbachpsy__: had a look in devhelp?06:27
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pittiseb128: I just built and uploaded new update langpacks06:41
seb128pitti: thanks!06:41
HiddenWolfpitti: will those be updated after hoary is stable?06:41
seb128you rock :)06:41
pittiHiddenWolf: yes06:41
pittiHiddenWolf: monthly, as it seems now06:42
HiddenWolfgood, that's a relief. :)06:42
pittiHiddenWolf: that's the biggest reason why we go though this langpack trouble :-)06:42
pittiHiddenWolf: well, the other big one is that folks can use Rosetta for translations :-)06:43
HiddenWolfpitti: will there be anything like that debian repro for volatile software? virus scanners etc?06:43
HiddenWolfpitti: how's rosetta coming along?06:43
sivangpitti: Hi Martin :)06:44
pittiHi sivang 06:44
pittiHiddenWolf: volatile> not decided yet, could make a good topic at the conference06:44
=== dilinger waves at pitti
pittiHiddenWolf: it evolves, but please rather ask the gurus (carlos and daf)06:45
=== pitti waves back at dilinger
tsenghi dilinger.06:45
tsengthoughts on 2.6.11.x?06:45
HiddenWolfpitti: ok, thanks06:45
dilingeri've posted a few things to lkml06:45
tsengah ive not read all the thread yet06:45
tsengmy mistake.06:46
dilingeri'm a little worried by their restrictions excluding security fixes06:46
dilingerwow, that's.. interesting06:48
pittilamont: here?06:48
HiddenWolfdilinger: isn't that a tad drastic?06:50
Mithrandirmdz: about?06:58
mdzMithrandir: yes06:59
pittiHi mdz 07:00
tsengdilinger: yeah.. embarassing07:00
mdzMithrandir: did you get my email?  need to know what's happening with the migration tool07:01
tsengdilinger: fix is rolled in grsec 2.1.207:01
Mithrandirmdz: I have a much improved version, so I'd like a freeze excemption07:01
mdzMithrandir: go ahead.  as far as i'm aware, it isn't even enabled yet07:02
mdzwhich is the next problem07:02
Mithrandirthe old version doesn't actually work, since gdm and python's configfileparser disagree on the format of .dmrc.07:02
Mithrandir(upper-lowercase and significance of whitespace)07:03
Mithrandirit uses update-manager's notification stuff07:03
mdzI don't think it's feasible to force this in for preview07:04
mdzthat's unfortunate because a lot of people will upgrade from Warty when the preview comes out07:05
mdzbut we can't possibly test it sufficiently07:05
Mithrandirit's not really a problem; they won't have utf8 locales, but once they upgrade to final, it'll be good.07:05
Mithrandirand we can ensure that it's tested well enough by then07:05
mdzlet's update it as soon as preview is out07:06
Mithrandirok, so I should hold off the upload  for a few days?07:06
mdzuntil preview is announced07:06
Mithrandirthat's fine07:06
MithrandirI'll work on it further as there are some issues that needs to be worked out anyway (what's the way to utf8-enable a C locale?)07:07
T-BoneMithrandir: hi! Any news about ia32-libs upload?07:10
dholbachsee you later07:12
HiddenWolfHm, isn't there any interest in redesigning the website?07:14
sivangHiddenWolf: I think there was a contest wrt to it07:14
HiddenWolfwiith regard to07:15
HiddenWolfsivang: not much happening so far? 07:15
sivangHiddenWolf: not that I heared off, the winning one was probably not yet decided upon07:16
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HiddenWolfsivang: any place where I can look at the competitors?07:26
sivangHiddenWolf: no idea, I am clueless as much as wrt to this.07:27
wasabi__wrt to07:27
wasabi__with regard to to07:28
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makoopi: hye there07:52
abellimako: u here?07:56
opimako, the push-cork-inside-with-a-pen is a poor ripoff of my -with-a-fork technique07:58
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makoabelli: yes08:03
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ogramako: could it be that the CC agenda has not been flushed ? 08:08
makoogra: possible08:08
makoogra: i thought i did it.. but it's possible i forgot last time08:09
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opidon't flush KDE stuff by accident :)08:09
ogramako: i think its still there....and i think there are some new MaintainerCandidate names08:09
jordido you sleep with the server omn?08:11
jordior is it in another room?08:11
jordimako: I'm getting a strange, suspicious sound that I might want to get looked at at the Apple store or whatever.08:11
jordiBut carlos says I need the receipt.08:12
jordimako: tell me you still keep my stuff08:12
sivangjordi: going to buy a new PPC ?08:12
jordino, mine is new already.08:12
jordiI want to see if this sound it makes is normal08:12
mrothjordi: what does it sound like?08:12
sivangjordi: ah, another one?08:12
carlosjordi: dude, it's a feature!!!08:13
jordimroth: it's fun08:13
carlosyou know when someone is trying to hack your computer :-D08:13
makojordi: hey dude08:13
makojordi: yeah dude.. i have everything08:13
jordimroth: when the pcmcia wireless card transmits or recieves packets, it makes a funny noise08:13
jordiI tried daf's card and still08:13
jordimako: that's great!08:13
mrothwow thats bizarre08:13
carlosmroth: no, that's cool08:14
jordimako: I wonder what'd be the best way to get all the stuff delivered in Valencia. Normal postal service would be enough?08:14
makojordi: just take it into an apple licensed store though. you should be fine. it's not you bought it from somebody other than apple08:14
carlosyou have sound while download things08:14
jordi"all" means the powercord, cdrom and all the shit08:14
mrothmake recordings of certain patterns before you get it fixed... "heres what a port scan sounds like!"08:14
jordimako: that's true :)08:14
carlosit's the ipod integrated into the powerbook!08:14
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jordimroth: haha08:14
seb128mdz: here ?08:16
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macewanHrm, how do I get around this?? -->>  WARNING: The following packages cannot be securely authenticated!08:54
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mdzseb128: yes10:02
seb128mdz: was about the hibernate mail but I've replied rather, and now you have forwarded :p10:03
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seb128mdz: BTW about the gossip FTBFS if somebody has an idea on it ...10:04
mdzseb128: if you have no idea, perhaps it should go in universe10:05
seb128mdz: I've looked on it, seems to be an autostuff issue but I don't understand why it breaks, the config.log finds XScreenSaver and breaks just after10:05
wasabimdz, debian bug 225648, added an apt option to bypass apt auth checks. What is that option10:05
wasabicannot find it in the docs10:05
mdzwasabi: man apt-get10:06
wasabiHere I am searching thru man apt.conf10:06
seb128mdz: hum, k. I'll have a look again on it :)10:06
mdzseb128: is gossip important? we have gaim10:06
seb128a part of the GNOME users don't like gaim, gossip is not big and nice to have10:07
mdzit is very small when it FTBFS :-)10:07
seb128but not, that's not important, just nice to have10:07
seb128bah, the same package used to build fine and builds fine in debian10:08
seb128I tend to blame xorg :)10:08
mdz/tmp/ccylnX49.o(.text+0xa): In function `main':10:09
mdz/tmp/gossip-0.8/conftest.c:37: undefined reference to `XScreenSaverRegister'10:09
mdzcollect2: ld returned 1 exit status10:09
mdzthat's the first test10:09
mdzit seems like the AC_TRY_COMPILE must be failing10:10
zenwhenis "firefox scrolls really slow" a valid bug report?10:10
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seb128hey dholbach 10:12
seb128dholbach: gtkmm 2.6 to package :)10:12
dholbachseb128: rocking10:12
zuljdub around?10:12
dholbachseb128: it finally does break API?10:12
seb128dholbach: ??10:13
dholbachseb128: 2.6 reminded me of: we're brand new and breaking API now10:13
dholbachseb128: but even better if it doesnt :-)10:13
mdzseb128: hmm10:13
mdzseb128: I added some debugging echos and re-ran autoconf, and now it succeeds10:13
seb128mdz: building the small .c works here10:14
seb128just autoconf ?10:15
seb128doesn't fix it here10:15
mdzseb128: right, same here10:21
mdzseb128: I think configure.in is just wrong10:21
mdzlook at this10:21
mdz   AC_TRY_COMPILE([10:21
mdz#include <X11/extensions/scrnsaver.h>10:21
mdz                ] ,[] ,[enable_xss=no] ,[10:21
mdz                AC_DEFINE(USE_SCREENSAVER, 1, [Define if we're using XScreenSaver.] )10:21
mdz                ] )10:21
mdzthat means that if the compile succeeds, it will do enable_xss=no10:21
mdzand if it fails, it does the AC_DEFINE10:21
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mdzseems backwards10:23
seb128what I don't get that the same package is in the archive, why does it break now10:23
mdzdoes it compile in Debian?10:23
mdzdoes Debian have it in libXss or libXext?10:23
mdzhmm, wouldn't matter10:24
mdzI bet that in Debian, it gets built without xss support10:24
seb128checking for XScreenSaverRegister in -lXext... no10:24
seb128checking for XScreenSaverRegister in -lXss... yes10:24
mdzthat means nothing10:24
mdzwhat matters is enable_xss10:25
mdzif enable_xss is anything but "no" it doesn't give the error10:25
mdzby default enable_xss will be ""10:25
mdzconfig.log from Debian would be enlightening10:25
mdzbut honestly I think the test is backwards10:26
seb128yep, I'm starting a pbuilder10:26
seb128we can just fix it10:26
mdzI think maybe X11/extensions/scrnsaver.h is missing in the Debian build10:27
mdzif you have a Debian chroot with the build-deps installed, see if it's there10:29
seb128a min, updating it10:30
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seb128hi GheRivero 10:32
seb128mdz: 10:33
seb128# ls -l /usr/X11R6/include/X11/extensions/scrnsaver.h10:33
seb128-rw-r--r--  1 root root 4510 2004-12-15 20:12 /usr/X11R6/include/X11/extensions/scrnsaver.h10:33
mdzI would like to see config.log if possible10:34
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seb128yep, I'm putting it online10:34
seb128a sec10:34
seb128mdz: http://pkg-gnome.alioth.debian.org/config.log10:35
seb128mdz: right, the /scrnsaver.h seems to be broken 10:36
mdzIn file included from conftest.c:27:10:36
mdz/usr/X11R6/include/X11/extensions/scrnsaver.h:39: error: parse error before "Bool"10:36
mdzso the test is backwards, and it worked because the compile failed :-)10:36
seb128yep :)10:36
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zenwhenfirst time i have ever caught up with hoary11:00
zenwhendialup sucks11:01
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zenroxzenwhen,  dont i know ill never go back to dialup11:12
zenwhenive no other option11:13
zenwhenor i wouldnt be using it11:13
zenroxmove to a place that has brodband11:13
zenwhenoh gee11:13
zenwheni sure hadnt thought of that11:13
zenwhenI am in a couple months11:14
zenroxwhat are you gona get cable,fiber,adsl11:14
zenroxya for me even getting updates is slow 11:15
zenrox768k in/ 128k out11:15
GoneBoBwell in australia you can choose between ridiculously slow expensive links11:18
GoneBoBand really quite fast inexpensive links11:18
GoneBoBand it's somewhat random as to what is available depending on your location11:18
zenwhenzenrox, I will have 4Mbit/256k11:24
zenwhenfor 40 bucks a month11:24
tsenghey dudes, this is getting a bit off topic11:24
zenwhenIt was silent, sorry.11:26
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psy__dholbach: devhelp is nice, thanx for the reference :)11:57
dholbachpsy__: cool :-)11:57
psy__only thing is, just about every entry in it makes sence to me... except pango :p (gonna google some more, and place my findings next to it. to see if i get somewhere that way :p)12:00

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