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froudAfrican greetings06:20
froudjeffsch: yes I will need an editor after the developers have done a technical review06:20
jeffschHow big is the manual?06:33
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froudjeffsch: 799 lines of XML :-)07:34
froudHello Liz07:34
=== froud must go the school run BRB
Lizand ok07:36
jeffschfroud: hmmm... if i print it out real small, 80 lines per page, that's only 10 pages!07:44
jeffschI can do that.07:44
jeffschhello Liz07:45
jeffschdo you know how i can convert docbook to pdf?07:45
Lizhi jeffsch..no idea im sorry07:46
Liznever had to do that07:46
Lizdoesnt help that i cant see docbook neway07:46
Lizit wont open in my browser07:46
jeffschuse yelp07:47
Lizi dont think i have yelp07:47
jeffschif you have ubuntu and are using gnome desktop, you have yelp07:48
Lizoh..there it is07:48
Lizyes i have it..its open07:48
Liznow that i can see it..it looks really good07:53
froudjeffsch: yes07:58
froudyou need to transform to xsl:fo using the fo stylesheets07:58
jeffschit's fop that i need after that, right?07:58
froudthen run the xsl:fo file through a formatting object processor like fop07:58
jeffschhow to find fop? which repository?07:59
froudfop is at apache.org07:59
froudI assume you already have either Saxon or Xalan/Xerces installed08:00
froudno it's ok you hav exsltproc08:00
jeffschyes, i can do xml to fo with xsltproc08:01
froudyou should not that xsltproc does not support the docbook extensions08:01
jeffschso what is the best way to do it?08:01
froudusing saxon08:06
froudthe docbook extensions are not required08:07
froudbut if you want to use them then you need one ofthe java xslt processors08:07
froudfor example if you are using fop you will want to us ethe fop extensions08:08
jeffschI'm looking at http://xml.apache.org/fop/running.html and it seems everything I need is in the one download08:08
jeffschexcept for java of course08:08
jeffschwhat's a good directory to install it in?08:11
froudjeffsch: you can put it anywhere. JUst export the path to your env08:12
froudjeffsch: normall installe din /user/share/java/08:14
=== froud looks for people to do "GNOME BitTorrent" in the Quick Guide
=== jeffsch looks for someone to tell him how to run file roller from the command line
=== jeffsch he doesn't know the app name...
Lizi use bittorrent08:20
Lizbut i never could get gnomes one to work08:20
froudjeffsch: if you are on the command line just use tar and gzip08:26
jeffschyes.... but I really wanted to try file roller... :(08:26
froudif you want to run the GUI do file-roller08:27
froudon ubuntu file-roller is called Archive Manager08:27
jeffschhmmm... a general question... how does one find out the name of an app on a gui menu?08:28
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Lizi gotta go09:13
Lizsee you all later09:13
froudjeffsch: take a look in Synaptic09:35
jeffschI've got fop installed and ready to go, I'm still figuring out the entire process...09:42
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jeffschfroud: fop is throwing out of memory exception. I try to fix tomorrow. time for sleep10:36
jeffschsee ya10:36
froudjeffsch: ok10:38
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=== froud is famous at last Yayyyy!!! http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050307/lam011_1.html
enricoHooray for froud!!07:27
froudand it went out on all the pr channels07:27
enrico"noted technical author and information architect" !07:27
froudafter nearly a year writing its about time07:28
froudpretty cool book though07:30
froudeven if I say so myself07:30
froudenrico: do you know if anyone is taking on that bug I listed about yelp07:32
enricono, I don't07:37
enricoBut I'll try to keep an eye07:37
froudOh well, gave mvo update-manager manual today07:39
enricogoing for dinner07:40
enricoI can't say "trust me, we committed to transparency" :)07:43
enricosorry, this was for another channel07:43
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mdkehi there, anyone home for a chat? i wanted to talk about ubuntu documentation08:55
mdkeafaics the documentation online is very higgedy piggeldy and the local docs are not much better, and I wondered if there is any initiative in motion or pending to set this right?08:57
=== mdke reads bugzilla
mdkeanyway lemme know if someone reads my message, i would be interested in discussing it and happy to do anything i can to help out09:01
enricoHey there!09:04
enricoWelcome mdke!09:04
mdkehi enrico09:06
enricoWe mainly focused on making books, yes09:06
enricothose things at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects09:06
enricobut the website is definitely lacking09:06
mdkei tell ya what bothers me09:07
mdkethere are loads of docs 09:07
mdkebut they are all in different places09:07
enricoOh, yes09:07
mdkethere is a wiki, a wiki faq, an ubuntu faq, an ubuntu howto list etc etc09:07
mdkeand its impossible to search them09:07
mdkei was looking for some simple information just now and it took me ages to fail to find it ;)09:08
enricoThe current plone sucks09:10
enricowe're all waiting for a redesign09:10
enricoAnd someone actively hacking on the website09:10
mdkeyeah i appreciate that09:10
mdkebut the problem for me is not the design, its the structure09:10
enricowhat do you mean?09:11
mdkewhat i said before about all the docs being in different places09:12
mdkeimo the website needs a simpler structure for the help docs09:12
mdkecombine the faq, the wiki faq, the wiki howtos, the ubuntu howtos, the ubuntuguide etc etc and have them in the same place09:12
enricoThe difference between the website and the wiki is that the website would list "official" informations, while the wiki is free for everyone to edit09:12
mdkei think in an ideal world the wiki would not have docs in09:13
mdkejust brainstorming09:13
mdkebut that will take a lot of time09:13
mdkeenrico, have you seen how the docs for gentoo are organised?09:14
enricothat's quite a long list09:18
mdkeyeah but its all in one place09:18
mdkemaybe i'm talking rubbish09:18
mdkei guess what I am asking for is for an integration of ubuntuguide and the wiki with the official "support" section of the website, but maybe its not feasible09:20
enricothe other thing is that the ubuntuguide is far from being completed09:22
mdkeright fair enough09:23
enrico(and plone wouldn's support documents on multiple files, so putting it in there would be hard)09:23
enricothat's why the quickguide is not there either09:23
mdkeis the quickguide different to ubuntuguide?09:23
enricoBut I think a wishlist for the website would be very needed09:23
mdkei'll subscribe to your list09:24
enricoquickguide: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/quickguide/09:24
mdkebtw sei italiano?09:24
enricomdke: si si!09:24
mdkeio no09:24
enricoThe quickguide is quite cool09:24
mdkebut i speak italian09:24
enricoma lo parli09:24
mdkesi l'ho imparato09:25
mdkemi piace molto l'italia09:25
mdkei'll check out the quickguide09:26
enricoit's an introduction to things, not really a user guide09:26
mdkewhere is it found locally?09:27
mdkenm found it09:27
mdkethe ubuntu related guides could have their own section in the Help Topics09:28
enricothe QG is just an introduction, but I wish every system had one like that09:29
mdkethey look out of place alongside the "GNU time command"09:29
enricoIt's quite cute to get you started09:29
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enricooh, yes: we're trying to fix yelp cathegories09:29
makomdke: hola!09:29
mdkehi mako09:29
mdkepleased to meet ya09:29
makomdke: so i hear you want to help with the website :) 09:29
mdkei would like to09:29
makoi would like you to!09:30
mdkei'm reading09:30
mdkei don't know docbook09:30
makoso what you should know is that (a) most stuff is in the wiki of which anyone can just edit09:30
makoand (b) most of the stuff that is in the website proper, anyone can edit09:30
makother are only a dozen pages or so that are locked09:31
makothings like the front page, the governnace pages, the code of conduct09:31
mdkei was thinking that the website proper "support" section could do with having more stuff in it. the wiki is not the most desirable place09:31
makoour thought was that as things get "stable" in the wiki, stuff can be moved over09:31
mdkeis there a policy on what can go in the support section?09:31
makoso if there are excellent high quality pages in the wiki that haven't changed in a long time, you can move them over09:32
makomdke: umm. high quality and stable are the two major criteria for inclusion i think.. and correct09:32
mdkei tell you what is really needed: the RestrictedFormats stuff. But problem is that the wiki is really bad09:32
makook, so in that case, the work to improve it should be done in the wiki and then, when it's high quality and stable, it can be moved over :)09:33
mdkethe problem with that is that the wiki grows rather than develops09:33
mdkepeople don't want to just scrap the previous stuff, so they add things, instead of replacing them with clearer things09:33
makoyes, i've seen that09:33
mdkeits the nature of a wiki09:34
makothe only solution is for someone to take on an editorial role and edit09:34
mdkethat might be a good solution09:34
mdkehow do they do it on wikipedia? ;p09:34
makoeditorial collectives09:34
makoor committees09:34
makoor whatever they call them09:34
mdkewell i am happy to try and work privately on some editing, and then submit them to someone with power for approval.09:35
mdkebut only if you want09:35
makowe have full version control. go ahead and make the changes. they can always be reverted09:36
mdkeoh i c09:36
makoif you are unsure, make the changes and then point them out to this channel or to me09:36
makoor to #ubuntu-devel09:36
mdkei would be nervous about rewriting the RestrictedFormats wiki09:36
makoto ask for a second opinion09:36
mdkeand changing it without approval09:36
makoit can always be reverted09:36
mdkei don't want to get lynched ;)09:36
mdkethen maybe i will give it a go09:37
makoreorganization is fine09:37
makowiki's need gardening09:37
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makogardeners even09:37
=== mako coughs in enrico's direction
mdkeif i do something, i'll come and discuss in here or on the list09:37
mdkemako, btw was that your unhappy birthday site i saw the other day?09:37
mdkehi arsre 09:37
arsrecan any body help me 09:37
makomdke: yes, that was mine09:38
mdkemako, heh that was great09:38
arsreabout ubuntu09:38
makoarsre: perhaps09:38
=== enrico has a full-time job
makoarsre: whatcha need?09:38
mdkeenrico, di dove sei?09:38
enricomdke: di Bologna09:38
mdkeche bello09:38
arsrei my resoluton and graphics are poor09:38
arsrecant reed what is happing on screen09:38
mdkearsre, you need to ask in #ubuntu, they will be better placed to help09:39
mdkearsre, there is more of them too09:39
mdke(or do you guys do support in here?)09:39
arsreok thanx09:39
=== mdke treads on toes
enricomdke: how about you?09:40
mdkeenrico, london, UK09:40
mdkeenrico, i spent last year in firenze09:40
enricomdke: not much support here, unless to people writing docs09:40
mdkeenrico, and one year in siena a few years ago09:40
=== mdke shudders
enricomdke: wow.  You got fluent in tuscanian vernacular as well :)09:41
mdkeper fortuna no09:41
mdkeho incontrato una ragazza calabrese...09:41
mdkebut i haven't learnt calabrian yet ;)09:42
enricoDid she teach you Pizzica?09:42
mdkeher sister married a guy and they lived near bologna for a while 09:43
mdkein grizzana and then castiglione dei pepoli09:44
mdkelovely place09:44
enricoPizzica is a dance from the south.  Like Tarantella.  It's really fun, and it has some extremely interesting sides09:44
mdkei've gotta learn it09:44
enricogrizzana and castiglione are really lovely09:44
mdkei like the mountains09:45
mdkesmells much nicer than florence ;)09:45
enricoPizzica and Taranta can be fun, can be extremely seducing, and can be danced in a way that gives you mistical visions :)09:45
enricoOh, Florence's air is quite bad09:45
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enricomdke: what happens?  Someone kicked you out10:09
enricosorry, silly me10:09
mdkethe ping monster10:10
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mdkehey something has struck me10:56
mdkethere is no way the restrictedformats wiki could aspire to go on the site10:57
makowhy is that?10:58
mdkeubuntu distances itself from much of that content no?10:58
makoin some ways10:58
mdke**Note:** these are unsupported and may be illegal in your jurisdiction, we in no way endorse the use of these packages.10:58
makobut that doesn't mean that cleaning it up is a bad thing10:58
mdkeoh sure i'll try and clean it up too10:58
mdkeneed to find out the difference between the mplayer-ubuntu build and the mplayer-woody build in marillat10:59
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mdkedifficult to resolve inconsistencies in this wiki11:23
mdke1. "LAME can be used to encode MP3s if you install gstreamer0.8-lame."11:23
mdkethen further down11:23
mdke2. Also, for MP3 encoding, the following repository needs to be used:11:23
mdke   URI:            http://apt.cerkinfo.be/11:23
mdke   Distribution:   unstable11:23
mdke   Section(s):     main contrib non-free11:23
mdkeIf the packages in this repository don't work with your distribution (as they track sid), try the packages11:23
mdkeat http://henrik.synth.no/deb/ for MP3 encoding.11:24
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