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| froud | African greetings | 06:20 |
|---|---|---|
| froud | jeffsch: yes I will need an editor after the developers have done a technical review | 06:20 |
| jeffsch | How big is the manual? | 06:33 |
| === Liz [~maori@203.87.27.63] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| froud | jeffsch: 799 lines of XML :-) | 07:34 |
| froud | Hello Liz | 07:34 |
| === froud must go the school run BRB | ||
| Liz | hii.. | 07:36 |
| Liz | and ok | 07:36 |
| jeffsch | froud: hmmm... if i print it out real small, 80 lines per page, that's only 10 pages! | 07:44 |
| jeffsch | I can do that. | 07:44 |
| jeffsch | hello Liz | 07:45 |
| jeffsch | do you know how i can convert docbook to pdf? | 07:45 |
| Liz | hi jeffsch..no idea im sorry | 07:46 |
| Liz | never had to do that | 07:46 |
| Liz | doesnt help that i cant see docbook neway | 07:46 |
| Liz | it wont open in my browser | 07:46 |
| jeffsch | use yelp | 07:47 |
| Liz | i dont think i have yelp | 07:47 |
| jeffsch | if you have ubuntu and are using gnome desktop, you have yelp | 07:48 |
| Liz | oh..there it is | 07:48 |
| Liz | yes i have it..its open | 07:48 |
| Liz | now that i can see it..it looks really good | 07:53 |
| froud | jeffsch: yes | 07:58 |
| froud | you need to transform to xsl:fo using the fo stylesheets | 07:58 |
| jeffsch | it's fop that i need after that, right? | 07:58 |
| froud | then run the xsl:fo file through a formatting object processor like fop | 07:58 |
| froud | yes | 07:59 |
| jeffsch | how to find fop? which repository? | 07:59 |
| froud | fop is at apache.org | 07:59 |
| froud | I assume you already have either Saxon or Xalan/Xerces installed | 08:00 |
| froud | no it's ok you hav exsltproc | 08:00 |
| froud | xsltproc | 08:00 |
| jeffsch | yes, i can do xml to fo with xsltproc | 08:01 |
| froud | you should not that xsltproc does not support the docbook extensions | 08:01 |
| jeffsch | so what is the best way to do it? | 08:01 |
| froud | using saxon | 08:06 |
| froud | the docbook extensions are not required | 08:07 |
| froud | but if you want to use them then you need one ofthe java xslt processors | 08:07 |
| froud | for example if you are using fop you will want to us ethe fop extensions | 08:08 |
| jeffsch | I'm looking at http://xml.apache.org/fop/running.html and it seems everything I need is in the one download | 08:08 |
| jeffsch | except for java of course | 08:08 |
| jeffsch | what's a good directory to install it in? | 08:11 |
| froud | jeffsch: you can put it anywhere. JUst export the path to your env | 08:12 |
| froud | jeffsch: normall installe din /user/share/java/ | 08:14 |
| === froud looks for people to do "GNOME BitTorrent" in the Quick Guide | ||
| === jeffsch looks for someone to tell him how to run file roller from the command line | ||
| === jeffsch he doesn't know the app name... | ||
| Liz | i use bittorrent | 08:20 |
| Liz | but i never could get gnomes one to work | 08:20 |
| froud | jeffsch: if you are on the command line just use tar and gzip | 08:26 |
| jeffsch | yes.... but I really wanted to try file roller... :( | 08:26 |
| froud | if you want to run the GUI do file-roller | 08:27 |
| froud | on ubuntu file-roller is called Archive Manager | 08:27 |
| jeffsch | hmmm... a general question... how does one find out the name of an app on a gui menu? | 08:28 |
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| Liz | i gotta go | 09:13 |
| Liz | see you all later | 09:13 |
| froud | jeffsch: take a look in Synaptic | 09:35 |
| jeffsch | I've got fop installed and ready to go, I'm still figuring out the entire process... | 09:42 |
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| jeffsch | froud: fop is throwing out of memory exception. I try to fix tomorrow. time for sleep | 10:36 |
| jeffsch | see ya | 10:36 |
| froud | jeffsch: ok | 10:38 |
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| === froud is famous at last Yayyyy!!! http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050307/lam011_1.html | ||
| enrico | Hooray for froud!! | 07:27 |
| froud | and it went out on all the pr channels | 07:27 |
| enrico | "noted technical author and information architect" ! | 07:27 |
| froud | after nearly a year writing its about time | 07:28 |
| froud | pretty cool book though | 07:30 |
| froud | even if I say so myself | 07:30 |
| enrico | :) | 07:31 |
| froud | enrico: do you know if anyone is taking on that bug I listed about yelp | 07:32 |
| enrico | no, I don't | 07:37 |
| enrico | But I'll try to keep an eye | 07:37 |
| froud | Oh well, gave mvo update-manager manual today | 07:39 |
| enrico | coolness! | 07:40 |
| enrico | going for dinner | 07:40 |
| enrico | I can't say "trust me, we committed to transparency" :) | 07:43 |
| enrico | sorry, this was for another channel | 07:43 |
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| mdke | hi there, anyone home for a chat? i wanted to talk about ubuntu documentation | 08:55 |
| mdke | afaics the documentation online is very higgedy piggeldy and the local docs are not much better, and I wondered if there is any initiative in motion or pending to set this right? | 08:57 |
| === mdke reads bugzilla | ||
| mdke | anyway lemme know if someone reads my message, i would be interested in discussing it and happy to do anything i can to help out | 09:01 |
| enrico | Hey there! | 09:04 |
| enrico | Welcome mdke! | 09:04 |
| mdke | hi enrico | 09:06 |
| enrico | We mainly focused on making books, yes | 09:06 |
| enrico | those things at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects | 09:06 |
| mdke | hmm | 09:06 |
| enrico | but the website is definitely lacking | 09:06 |
| mdke | i tell ya what bothers me | 09:07 |
| mdke | there are loads of docs | 09:07 |
| mdke | but they are all in different places | 09:07 |
| enrico | Oh, yes | 09:07 |
| mdke | there is a wiki, a wiki faq, an ubuntu faq, an ubuntu howto list etc etc | 09:07 |
| mdke | and its impossible to search them | 09:07 |
| mdke | i was looking for some simple information just now and it took me ages to fail to find it ;) | 09:08 |
| enrico | The current plone sucks | 09:10 |
| enrico | we're all waiting for a redesign | 09:10 |
| enrico | And someone actively hacking on the website | 09:10 |
| mdke | yeah i appreciate that | 09:10 |
| mdke | but the problem for me is not the design, its the structure | 09:10 |
| enrico | what do you mean? | 09:11 |
| mdke | what i said before about all the docs being in different places | 09:12 |
| mdke | imo the website needs a simpler structure for the help docs | 09:12 |
| mdke | combine the faq, the wiki faq, the wiki howtos, the ubuntu howtos, the ubuntuguide etc etc and have them in the same place | 09:12 |
| enrico | The difference between the website and the wiki is that the website would list "official" informations, while the wiki is free for everyone to edit | 09:12 |
| mdke | sure | 09:13 |
| mdke | i think in an ideal world the wiki would not have docs in | 09:13 |
| mdke | just brainstorming | 09:13 |
| mdke | but that will take a lot of time | 09:13 |
| mdke | hmm | 09:13 |
| mdke | enrico, have you seen how the docs for gentoo are organised? | 09:14 |
| mdke | http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/list.xml | 09:15 |
| enrico | that's quite a long list | 09:18 |
| mdke | yeah but its all in one place | 09:18 |
| mdke | hmmm | 09:18 |
| mdke | maybe i'm talking rubbish | 09:18 |
| mdke | i guess what I am asking for is for an integration of ubuntuguide and the wiki with the official "support" section of the website, but maybe its not feasible | 09:20 |
| enrico | the other thing is that the ubuntuguide is far from being completed | 09:22 |
| mdke | ah | 09:23 |
| mdke | right fair enough | 09:23 |
| enrico | (and plone wouldn's support documents on multiple files, so putting it in there would be hard) | 09:23 |
| enrico | that's why the quickguide is not there either | 09:23 |
| mdke | is the quickguide different to ubuntuguide? | 09:23 |
| mdke | gosh | 09:23 |
| enrico | But I think a wishlist for the website would be very needed | 09:23 |
| mdke | hmm | 09:24 |
| mdke | i'll subscribe to your list | 09:24 |
| enrico | quickguide: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/quickguide/ | 09:24 |
| mdke | btw sei italiano? | 09:24 |
| enrico | mdke: si si! | 09:24 |
| mdke | :) | 09:24 |
| mdke | io no | 09:24 |
| enrico | The quickguide is quite cool | 09:24 |
| mdke | but i speak italian | 09:24 |
| enrico | ma lo parli | 09:24 |
| mdke | :) | 09:24 |
| mdke | si l'ho imparato | 09:25 |
| mdke | mi piace molto l'italia | 09:25 |
| mdke | i'll check out the quickguide | 09:26 |
| enrico | it's an introduction to things, not really a user guide | 09:26 |
| mdke | where is it found locally? | 09:27 |
| mdke | nm found it | 09:27 |
| mdke | heh | 09:27 |
| mdke | the ubuntu related guides could have their own section in the Help Topics | 09:28 |
| enrico | the QG is just an introduction, but I wish every system had one like that | 09:29 |
| mdke | they look out of place alongside the "GNU time command" | 09:29 |
| enrico | It's quite cute to get you started | 09:29 |
| mdke | hmm | 09:29 |
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| enrico | oh, yes: we're trying to fix yelp cathegories | 09:29 |
| mako | mdke: hola! | 09:29 |
| mdke | hi mako | 09:29 |
| mdke | pleased to meet ya | 09:29 |
| mako | mdke: so i hear you want to help with the website :) | 09:29 |
| mdke | i would like to | 09:29 |
| mako | i would like you to! | 09:30 |
| mdke | i'm reading | 09:30 |
| mdke | i don't know docbook | 09:30 |
| mako | so what you should know is that (a) most stuff is in the wiki of which anyone can just edit | 09:30 |
| mdke | yes | 09:30 |
| mako | and (b) most of the stuff that is in the website proper, anyone can edit | 09:30 |
| mdke | ah | 09:30 |
| mako | ther are only a dozen pages or so that are locked | 09:31 |
| mako | things like the front page, the governnace pages, the code of conduct | 09:31 |
| mdke | i was thinking that the website proper "support" section could do with having more stuff in it. the wiki is not the most desirable place | 09:31 |
| mako | totally | 09:31 |
| mdke | hmm | 09:31 |
| mako | our thought was that as things get "stable" in the wiki, stuff can be moved over | 09:31 |
| mdke | is there a policy on what can go in the support section? | 09:31 |
| mako | so if there are excellent high quality pages in the wiki that haven't changed in a long time, you can move them over | 09:32 |
| mako | mdke: umm. high quality and stable are the two major criteria for inclusion i think.. and correct | 09:32 |
| mdke | i tell you what is really needed: the RestrictedFormats stuff. But problem is that the wiki is really bad | 09:32 |
| mako | ok, so in that case, the work to improve it should be done in the wiki and then, when it's high quality and stable, it can be moved over :) | 09:33 |
| mdke | hmm | 09:33 |
| mdke | the problem with that is that the wiki grows rather than develops | 09:33 |
| mdke | people don't want to just scrap the previous stuff, so they add things, instead of replacing them with clearer things | 09:33 |
| mako | yes, i've seen that | 09:33 |
| mdke | its the nature of a wiki | 09:34 |
| mako | the only solution is for someone to take on an editorial role and edit | 09:34 |
| mdke | that might be a good solution | 09:34 |
| mdke | how do they do it on wikipedia? ;p | 09:34 |
| mako | editorial collectives | 09:34 |
| mako | or committees | 09:34 |
| mako | or whatever they call them | 09:34 |
| mako | editors | 09:34 |
| mdke | well i am happy to try and work privately on some editing, and then submit them to someone with power for approval. | 09:35 |
| mdke | but only if you want | 09:35 |
| mako | we have full version control. go ahead and make the changes. they can always be reverted | 09:36 |
| mdke | oh i c | 09:36 |
| mako | if you are unsure, make the changes and then point them out to this channel or to me | 09:36 |
| mako | or to #ubuntu-devel | 09:36 |
| mdke | i would be nervous about rewriting the RestrictedFormats wiki | 09:36 |
| mako | to ask for a second opinion | 09:36 |
| mdke | and changing it without approval | 09:36 |
| mako | it can always be reverted | 09:36 |
| mdke | i don't want to get lynched ;) | 09:36 |
| mdke | ok | 09:36 |
| mdke | then maybe i will give it a go | 09:37 |
| mako | reorganization is fine | 09:37 |
| mako | wiki's need gardening | 09:37 |
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| mako | gardeners even | 09:37 |
| === mako coughs in enrico's direction | ||
| mdke | if i do something, i'll come and discuss in here or on the list | 09:37 |
| arsre | hello | 09:37 |
| mdke | mako, btw was that your unhappy birthday site i saw the other day? | 09:37 |
| mdke | hi arsre | 09:37 |
| arsre | can any body help me | 09:37 |
| mako | mdke: yes, that was mine | 09:38 |
| mdke | mako, heh that was great | 09:38 |
| arsre | about ubuntu | 09:38 |
| arsre | graphichs | 09:38 |
| mako | arsre: perhaps | 09:38 |
| === enrico has a full-time job | ||
| mako | arsre: whatcha need? | 09:38 |
| mdke | lol | 09:38 |
| mdke | enrico, di dove sei? | 09:38 |
| enrico | mdke: di Bologna | 09:38 |
| mdke | che bello | 09:38 |
| arsre | i my resoluton and graphics are poor | 09:38 |
| arsre | cant reed what is happing on screen | 09:38 |
| mdke | arsre, you need to ask in #ubuntu, they will be better placed to help | 09:39 |
| mdke | arsre, there is more of them too | 09:39 |
| mdke | (or do you guys do support in here?) | 09:39 |
| arsre | ok thanx | 09:39 |
| === mdke treads on toes | ||
| enrico | mdke: how about you? | 09:40 |
| mdke | enrico, london, UK | 09:40 |
| mdke | enrico, i spent last year in firenze | 09:40 |
| enrico | mdke: not much support here, unless to people writing docs | 09:40 |
| mdke | k | 09:40 |
| mdke | enrico, and one year in siena a few years ago | 09:40 |
| === mdke shudders | ||
| enrico | mdke: wow. You got fluent in tuscanian vernacular as well :) | 09:41 |
| mdke | per fortuna no | 09:41 |
| mdke | ho incontrato una ragazza calabrese... | 09:41 |
| enrico | WOW | 09:42 |
| mdke | but i haven't learnt calabrian yet ;) | 09:42 |
| enrico | Did she teach you Pizzica? | 09:42 |
| mdke | hmm | 09:42 |
| mdke | spicy? | 09:42 |
| mdke | her sister married a guy and they lived near bologna for a while | 09:43 |
| mdke | in grizzana and then castiglione dei pepoli | 09:44 |
| mdke | lovely place | 09:44 |
| enrico | Pizzica is a dance from the south. Like Tarantella. It's really fun, and it has some extremely interesting sides | 09:44 |
| mdke | heh | 09:44 |
| mdke | i've gotta learn it | 09:44 |
| enrico | grizzana and castiglione are really lovely | 09:44 |
| mdke | i like the mountains | 09:45 |
| mdke | smells much nicer than florence ;) | 09:45 |
| enrico | Pizzica and Taranta can be fun, can be extremely seducing, and can be danced in a way that gives you mistical visions :) | 09:45 |
| mdke | cool | 09:45 |
| enrico | Oh, Florence's air is quite bad | 09:45 |
| mdke | heh | 09:45 |
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| mdke | *sighs | 10:05 |
| enrico | mdke: what happens? Someone kicked you out | 10:09 |
| enrico | okno | 10:09 |
| enrico | sorry, silly me | 10:09 |
| mdke | ping | 10:09 |
| mdke | the ping monster | 10:10 |
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| mdke | hey something has struck me | 10:56 |
| mdke | there is no way the restrictedformats wiki could aspire to go on the site | 10:57 |
| mako | why is that? | 10:58 |
| mdke | ubuntu distances itself from much of that content no? | 10:58 |
| mako | in some ways | 10:58 |
| mdke | paste: | 10:58 |
| mdke | **Note:** these are unsupported and may be illegal in your jurisdiction, we in no way endorse the use of these packages. | 10:58 |
| mako | but that doesn't mean that cleaning it up is a bad thing | 10:58 |
| mdke | oh sure i'll try and clean it up too | 10:58 |
| mdke | need to find out the difference between the mplayer-ubuntu build and the mplayer-woody build in marillat | 10:59 |
| mako | debdiff | 11:03 |
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| mdke | hmm | 11:23 |
| mdke | difficult to resolve inconsistencies in this wiki | 11:23 |
| mdke | compare: | 11:23 |
| mdke | 1. "LAME can be used to encode MP3s if you install gstreamer0.8-lame." | 11:23 |
| mdke | then further down | 11:23 |
| mdke | 2. Also, for MP3 encoding, the following repository needs to be used: | 11:23 |
| mdke | :: | 11:23 |
| mdke | URI: http://apt.cerkinfo.be/ | 11:23 |
| mdke | Distribution: unstable | 11:23 |
| mdke | Section(s): main contrib non-free | 11:23 |
| mdke | If the packages in this repository don't work with your distribution (as they track sid), try the packages | 11:23 |
| mdke | at http://henrik.synth.no/deb/ for MP3 encoding. | 11:24 |
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