=== Burgundavia [~Burgundav@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [~Burgundav@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:20] African greetings [06:20] jeffsch: yes I will need an editor after the developers have done a technical review [06:33] How big is the manual? === Liz [~maori@203.87.27.63] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:34] jeffsch: 799 lines of XML :-) [07:34] Hello Liz === froud must go the school run BRB [07:36] hii.. [07:36] and ok [07:44] froud: hmmm... if i print it out real small, 80 lines per page, that's only 10 pages! [07:44] I can do that. [07:45] hello Liz [07:45] do you know how i can convert docbook to pdf? [07:46] hi jeffsch..no idea im sorry [07:46] never had to do that [07:46] doesnt help that i cant see docbook neway [07:46] it wont open in my browser [07:47] use yelp [07:47] i dont think i have yelp [07:48] if you have ubuntu and are using gnome desktop, you have yelp [07:48] oh..there it is [07:48] yes i have it..its open [07:53] now that i can see it..it looks really good [07:58] jeffsch: yes [07:58] you need to transform to xsl:fo using the fo stylesheets [07:58] it's fop that i need after that, right? [07:58] then run the xsl:fo file through a formatting object processor like fop [07:59] yes [07:59] how to find fop? which repository? [07:59] fop is at apache.org [08:00] I assume you already have either Saxon or Xalan/Xerces installed [08:00] no it's ok you hav exsltproc [08:00] xsltproc [08:01] yes, i can do xml to fo with xsltproc [08:01] you should not that xsltproc does not support the docbook extensions [08:01] so what is the best way to do it? [08:06] using saxon [08:07] the docbook extensions are not required [08:07] but if you want to use them then you need one ofthe java xslt processors [08:08] for example if you are using fop you will want to us ethe fop extensions [08:08] I'm looking at http://xml.apache.org/fop/running.html and it seems everything I need is in the one download [08:08] except for java of course [08:11] what's a good directory to install it in? [08:12] jeffsch: you can put it anywhere. JUst export the path to your env [08:14] jeffsch: normall installe din /user/share/java/ === froud looks for people to do "GNOME BitTorrent" in the Quick Guide === jeffsch looks for someone to tell him how to run file roller from the command line === jeffsch he doesn't know the app name... [08:20] i use bittorrent [08:20] but i never could get gnomes one to work [08:26] jeffsch: if you are on the command line just use tar and gzip [08:26] yes.... but I really wanted to try file roller... :( [08:27] if you want to run the GUI do file-roller [08:27] on ubuntu file-roller is called Archive Manager [08:28] hmmm... a general question... how does one find out the name of an app on a gui menu? === Burgundavia [~Burgundav@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:13] i gotta go [09:13] see you all later [09:35] jeffsch: take a look in Synaptic [09:42] I've got fop installed and ready to go, I'm still figuring out the entire process... === abelli [~abelli@host-84-222-39-20.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [~Burgundav@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === abelli [~abelli@host-84-222-39-20.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc === hypatia [~mary@adsl-66-203.swiftdsl.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:36] froud: fop is throwing out of memory exception. I try to fix tomorrow. time for sleep [10:36] see ya [10:38] jeffsch: ok === Burgundavia [~Burgundav@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === abelli_ [~abelli@host-84-222-39-20.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc === abelli [~abelli@host-84-222-39-20.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud [~froud@ndn-165-131-148.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === _froud_ [~froud@ndn-165-131-148.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === maskie [~maskie@196-30-109-167.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jeffsch [~jeffsch@fatwire-203-26.uniserve.ca] has left #ubuntu-doc ["gotta] === froud is famous at last Yayyyy!!! http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050307/lam011_1.html [07:27] Hooray for froud!! [07:27] and it went out on all the pr channels [07:27] "noted technical author and information architect" ! [07:28] after nearly a year writing its about time [07:30] pretty cool book though [07:30] even if I say so myself [07:31] :) [07:32] enrico: do you know if anyone is taking on that bug I listed about yelp [07:37] no, I don't [07:37] But I'll try to keep an eye [07:39] Oh well, gave mvo update-manager manual today [07:40] coolness! [07:40] going for dinner [07:43] I can't say "trust me, we committed to transparency" :) [07:43] sorry, this was for another channel === Cturtle [~Cturtle__@a213-84-50-38.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [~mdke@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:55] hi there, anyone home for a chat? i wanted to talk about ubuntu documentation [08:57] afaics the documentation online is very higgedy piggeldy and the local docs are not much better, and I wondered if there is any initiative in motion or pending to set this right? === mdke reads bugzilla [09:01] anyway lemme know if someone reads my message, i would be interested in discussing it and happy to do anything i can to help out [09:04] Hey there! [09:04] Welcome mdke! [09:06] hi enrico [09:06] We mainly focused on making books, yes [09:06] those things at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects [09:06] hmm [09:06] but the website is definitely lacking [09:07] i tell ya what bothers me [09:07] there are loads of docs [09:07] but they are all in different places [09:07] Oh, yes [09:07] there is a wiki, a wiki faq, an ubuntu faq, an ubuntu howto list etc etc [09:07] and its impossible to search them [09:08] i was looking for some simple information just now and it took me ages to fail to find it ;) [09:10] The current plone sucks [09:10] we're all waiting for a redesign [09:10] And someone actively hacking on the website [09:10] yeah i appreciate that [09:10] but the problem for me is not the design, its the structure [09:11] what do you mean? [09:12] what i said before about all the docs being in different places [09:12] imo the website needs a simpler structure for the help docs [09:12] combine the faq, the wiki faq, the wiki howtos, the ubuntu howtos, the ubuntuguide etc etc and have them in the same place [09:12] The difference between the website and the wiki is that the website would list "official" informations, while the wiki is free for everyone to edit [09:13] sure [09:13] i think in an ideal world the wiki would not have docs in [09:13] just brainstorming [09:13] but that will take a lot of time [09:13] hmm [09:14] enrico, have you seen how the docs for gentoo are organised? [09:15] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/list.xml [09:18] that's quite a long list [09:18] yeah but its all in one place [09:18] hmmm [09:18] maybe i'm talking rubbish [09:20] i guess what I am asking for is for an integration of ubuntuguide and the wiki with the official "support" section of the website, but maybe its not feasible [09:22] the other thing is that the ubuntuguide is far from being completed [09:23] ah [09:23] right fair enough [09:23] (and plone wouldn's support documents on multiple files, so putting it in there would be hard) [09:23] that's why the quickguide is not there either [09:23] is the quickguide different to ubuntuguide? [09:23] gosh [09:23] But I think a wishlist for the website would be very needed [09:24] hmm [09:24] i'll subscribe to your list [09:24] quickguide: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/quickguide/ [09:24] btw sei italiano? [09:24] mdke: si si! [09:24] :) [09:24] io no [09:24] The quickguide is quite cool [09:24] but i speak italian [09:24] ma lo parli [09:24] :) [09:25] si l'ho imparato [09:25] mi piace molto l'italia [09:26] i'll check out the quickguide [09:26] it's an introduction to things, not really a user guide [09:27] where is it found locally? [09:27] nm found it [09:27] heh [09:28] the ubuntu related guides could have their own section in the Help Topics [09:29] the QG is just an introduction, but I wish every system had one like that [09:29] they look out of place alongside the "GNU time command" [09:29] It's quite cute to get you started [09:29] hmm === mako [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:29] oh, yes: we're trying to fix yelp cathegories [09:29] mdke: hola! [09:29] hi mako [09:29] pleased to meet ya [09:29] mdke: so i hear you want to help with the website :) [09:29] i would like to [09:30] i would like you to! [09:30] i'm reading [09:30] i don't know docbook [09:30] so what you should know is that (a) most stuff is in the wiki of which anyone can just edit [09:30] yes [09:30] and (b) most of the stuff that is in the website proper, anyone can edit [09:30] ah [09:31] ther are only a dozen pages or so that are locked [09:31] things like the front page, the governnace pages, the code of conduct [09:31] i was thinking that the website proper "support" section could do with having more stuff in it. the wiki is not the most desirable place [09:31] totally [09:31] hmm [09:31] our thought was that as things get "stable" in the wiki, stuff can be moved over [09:31] is there a policy on what can go in the support section? [09:32] so if there are excellent high quality pages in the wiki that haven't changed in a long time, you can move them over [09:32] mdke: umm. high quality and stable are the two major criteria for inclusion i think.. and correct [09:32] i tell you what is really needed: the RestrictedFormats stuff. But problem is that the wiki is really bad [09:33] ok, so in that case, the work to improve it should be done in the wiki and then, when it's high quality and stable, it can be moved over :) [09:33] hmm [09:33] the problem with that is that the wiki grows rather than develops [09:33] people don't want to just scrap the previous stuff, so they add things, instead of replacing them with clearer things [09:33] yes, i've seen that [09:34] its the nature of a wiki [09:34] the only solution is for someone to take on an editorial role and edit [09:34] that might be a good solution [09:34] how do they do it on wikipedia? ;p [09:34] editorial collectives [09:34] or committees [09:34] or whatever they call them [09:34] editors [09:35] well i am happy to try and work privately on some editing, and then submit them to someone with power for approval. [09:35] but only if you want [09:36] we have full version control. go ahead and make the changes. they can always be reverted [09:36] oh i c [09:36] if you are unsure, make the changes and then point them out to this channel or to me [09:36] or to #ubuntu-devel [09:36] i would be nervous about rewriting the RestrictedFormats wiki [09:36] to ask for a second opinion [09:36] and changing it without approval [09:36] it can always be reverted [09:36] i don't want to get lynched ;) [09:36] ok [09:37] then maybe i will give it a go [09:37] reorganization is fine [09:37] wiki's need gardening === arsre [sdfsdf@CPE000cf190b8e0-CM014080218964.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:37] gardeners even === mako coughs in enrico's direction [09:37] if i do something, i'll come and discuss in here or on the list [09:37] hello [09:37] mako, btw was that your unhappy birthday site i saw the other day? [09:37] hi arsre [09:37] can any body help me [09:38] mdke: yes, that was mine [09:38] mako, heh that was great [09:38] about ubuntu [09:38] graphichs [09:38] arsre: perhaps === enrico has a full-time job [09:38] arsre: whatcha need? [09:38] lol [09:38] enrico, di dove sei? [09:38] mdke: di Bologna [09:38] che bello [09:38] i my resoluton and graphics are poor [09:38] cant reed what is happing on screen [09:39] arsre, you need to ask in #ubuntu, they will be better placed to help [09:39] arsre, there is more of them too [09:39] (or do you guys do support in here?) [09:39] ok thanx === mdke treads on toes [09:40] mdke: how about you? [09:40] enrico, london, UK [09:40] enrico, i spent last year in firenze [09:40] mdke: not much support here, unless to people writing docs [09:40] k [09:40] enrico, and one year in siena a few years ago === mdke shudders [09:41] mdke: wow. You got fluent in tuscanian vernacular as well :) [09:41] per fortuna no [09:41] ho incontrato una ragazza calabrese... [09:42] WOW [09:42] but i haven't learnt calabrian yet ;) [09:42] Did she teach you Pizzica? [09:42] hmm [09:42] spicy? [09:43] her sister married a guy and they lived near bologna for a while [09:44] in grizzana and then castiglione dei pepoli [09:44] lovely place [09:44] Pizzica is a dance from the south. Like Tarantella. It's really fun, and it has some extremely interesting sides [09:44] heh [09:44] i've gotta learn it [09:44] grizzana and castiglione are really lovely [09:45] i like the mountains [09:45] smells much nicer than florence ;) [09:45] Pizzica and Taranta can be fun, can be extremely seducing, and can be danced in a way that gives you mistical visions :) [09:45] cool [09:45] Oh, Florence's air is quite bad [09:45] heh === mdke_ [~mdke@81-178-126-116.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [~mdke@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:05] *sighs [10:09] mdke: what happens? Someone kicked you out [10:09] okno [10:09] sorry, silly me [10:09] ping [10:10] the ping monster === markoni [marko_tasi@P1-235-20020.dialup.ns.ac.yu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === markoni [marko_tasi@P1-235-20020.dialup.ns.ac.yu] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [10:56] hey something has struck me [10:57] there is no way the restrictedformats wiki could aspire to go on the site [10:58] why is that? [10:58] ubuntu distances itself from much of that content no? [10:58] in some ways [10:58] paste: [10:58] **Note:** these are unsupported and may be illegal in your jurisdiction, we in no way endorse the use of these packages. [10:58] but that doesn't mean that cleaning it up is a bad thing [10:58] oh sure i'll try and clean it up too [10:59] need to find out the difference between the mplayer-ubuntu build and the mplayer-woody build in marillat [11:03] debdiff === mdke [~mdke@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:23] hmm [11:23] difficult to resolve inconsistencies in this wiki [11:23] compare: [11:23] 1. "LAME can be used to encode MP3s if you install gstreamer0.8-lame." [11:23] then further down [11:23] 2. Also, for MP3 encoding, the following repository needs to be used: [11:23] :: [11:23] URI: http://apt.cerkinfo.be/ [11:23] Distribution: unstable [11:23] Section(s): main contrib non-free [11:23] If the packages in this repository don't work with your distribution (as they track sid), try the packages [11:24] at http://henrik.synth.no/deb/ for MP3 encoding. === boglot [~logbot@gw.workaround.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc