seb128$ nm -D /usr/lib/libwnck-1.so.16 | grep _wnck_read_icons12:01
seb12800021847 T _wnck_read_icons12:01
seb128$ nm tmp/usr/lib/libwnck-1.so.16 | grep _wnck_read_icons12:01
seb128000218e0 t _wnck_read_icons12:01
seb128somebody understand the difference ? 12:01
Kamion^-- hoary song12:01
ograKamion: this bad ?12:02
T-Noneseb128: in one case the symbol is local, in the other it's global12:02
T-Noneseb128: else i've nothing to say :)12:02
Kamionactually the context is really tax, but :)12:02
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seb128any idea of what could make that change ?12:02
jbaileyseb128: link time visibility flags?12:03
T-Noneas jbailey says12:03
=== T-None is really off
T-Nonebye all12:03
seb128jbailey: that's libwnck package build one week ago and now12:03
seb128jbailey: any idea on what in the buildchain or whatever could do that ?12:04
seb128same source package12:04
seb128jbailey: have you changed something in cdbs to do that ? :p12:04
jbaileyseb128: Does it update libtool at buildtime?12:04
seb128that's a cdbs gnome.mk12:05
seb128ie: ./configure && make12:05
jbaileyseb128: No, the only cdbs change in hoary was to add pitti's cdbs-edit-patch script.12:05
jbaileyseb128: Do you have both build logs?12:05
seb128the only changes are translation between both12:06
jbaileyAnd by "same source package" you mean...12:06
jbaileyAh. =)12:06
seb128rebuilding the first one today gives the same result as 2.1012:06
lamontjbailey: everything that is not build-essential is fresh-installed each build12:06
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-love for getting involved | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryGoals | Kubuntu on #kubuntu-devel
jbaileyErr -Wl,--export-dynamic was dropped from the LIBWNCK_LIBS configure line.12:08
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seb128$ grep LIBWNCK_LIBS libwnck_2.9.92.1-0ubuntu1_i386.build12:09
seb128checking LIBWNCK_LIBS... -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lm -lpangoxft-1.0 -lpangox-1.0 -lpango-1.0 -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -ldl -lglib-2.0 -lstartup-notification-112:09
seb128just built on my box12:09
seb128something is doing that in the buildchain so12:10
lamonthaggai: kdebase -ubuntu2 ftbfs12:10
lamontld: cannot find -lxkbfile_pic12:10
seb128jbailey: where does it come from ?12:10
jbaileyGimme a sec, I don't have deb-src lines on this box.12:10
haggailamont: seen it, some nasty auto* stuff thanks12:12
lamontenjoy. :-(12:12
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jbaileyseb128: Looks like your problem is from gtk 2.6.3 to 2.6.412:21
jbaileyLIBWNCK_LIBS is provided by pkg-config for gtk.12:21
jbaileyWhich seems like screwball naming of it to me.12:21
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pittiseb128: new langpacks built and uploaded, please inform me about any troubles12:22
pittigood night everybody12:22
=== pitti falls asleep
jbaileyg'n Martin.12:22
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lamont./libtool: line 4696: /usr/bin/expr: Argument list too long12:27
lamontusing piecewise archive linking...12:27
lamontnow that's just precious.12:27
lamontjbailey??? ^^^12:27
lamontok.  libtool would be Keybuk, not jbailey. nm12:27
seb128jbailey: oh12:27
lamontdoko: fwiw, that's from gcc-4.012:28
seb128jbailey: gtk 2.6.4 has this change "* Move a lot of const data to the .rodata section [Matthias Clasen] "12:28
seb128jbailey: nothing to do with that ?12:28
seb128I don't think so12:28
seb128the changelog is pretty small12:29
jbaileylamont: of all the things to blame on me, please not libtool. =)12:30
jbaileyseb128: Can you easily play with the two versions?  It would be interesting to see the output from12:30
jbaileypkg-config --libs "gtk+-2.0 >= 2.5.4 $STARTUP_NOTIFICATION_PACKAGE"12:31
jbaileyErr.  Lesse what's in that variable. =)12:31
zenwhenam i the only person for whom firefox is just insanely slow right now?12:31
dokolamont: do you still have the build?12:31
seb128jbailey: -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lm -lpangoxft-1.0 -lpangox-1.0 -lpango-1.0 -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -ldl -lglib-2.0 (2.6.4)12:32
seb128jbailey: -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lm -lpangoxft-1.0 -lpangox-1.0 -lpango-1.0 -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -ldl -lglib-2.0 (2.6.3)12:33
lamontdoko: it's still running12:33
lamontjbailey: sorry still trying to overcome my lumping of *dbs in with autocrap/libstool.12:34
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jbaileyseb128: Was that an accidental uparrow/Enter or was that from each version?12:34
seb128each version12:34
seb128pkg-config --libs "gtk+-2.0 >= 2.5.4"12:34
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jbaileyLemme see what's in $STARTUP_NOTIFICATION_PACKAGE.12:35
jbaileyOh look, libstartup-notification. =)12:36
jbaileyBut it's the same version, so that's not where it's from.12:36
jbaileypkg-config is the same.12:37
seb128$ grep export-dynamic /usr/lib/pkgconfig/*.pc12:37
seb128/usr/lib/pkgconfig/gmodule-2.0.pc:Libs: -L${libdir} -Wl,--export-dynamic -lgmodule-2.0 -ldl12:37
lamontjbailey: and glib2.0 has diff versions, too.. :-) (in seb128's nearly identical lines above...)12:38
jbaileyDoes gtk automatically pull in glib?12:38
jbaileyI see that.12:38
seb128lamont: no, (2.6.3) (2.6.4) is from me12:38
seb128that's the gtk version :p12:38
seb128jbailey: oh ?12:39
=== lamont bows out of the conversation, before he confuses more than himself
jbaileyseb128: How is libwnck breaking, are you getting linktime or runtime errors?12:40
seb128jbailey: it's not12:40
seb128jbailey: in fact, here is the issue12:40
jbaileyseb128: Are you cruising the ABIs for fun? =)12:40
jbaileyAnd you say I'm sick for enjoying hacking on glibc... ;)12:41
seb128Removed: _wnck_pager_get_n_workspaces12:41
seb128Removed: _wnck_pager_get_workspace12:41
seb128Removed: _wnck_pager_get_workspace_name12:41
seb128I've such changes in the nm -D output12:41
seb128there are private symboles right ? (starting by "_")12:41
seb128should not be an issue12:41
seb128but 12:41
seb128(there is a but)12:42
seb128devilspie uses that to do its trick with the windows12:42
seb128so when I try to build it12:42
seb128vilspie-action-debug.o(.text+0x11d): In function `___1_devilspie_action_debug_run':12:42
seb128/tmp/devilspie-0.7/src/devilspie-action-debug.gob:18: undefined reference to `_wnck_atom_get'12:42
seb128devilspie-action-debug.o(.text+0x133):/tmp/devilspie-0.7/src/devilspie-action-debug.gob:18: undefined reference to `_wnck_get_string_property_latin1'12:42
jordidevilspie is evil12:42
jordievil as the devil12:42
jordiI'm going to sleep12:42
jordiMy Harrods story is finished.12:43
ajmitchnight jordi 12:43
thierryhi, I'd like to help, what can I do?12:43
seb128bug triage ? :)12:43
jordiepiphany has a lot of open bugs that are probly not an issue anymore >(12:44
seb128jordi: look on your new package, evolution12:44
jordishuddup seb12:44
seb128and then you can scream :p12:44
jbaileyseb128: Interesting.  devilspie should never have linked.  There's a linker regex in there that keeps these symbols from being included.12:48
jbaileyWhatever was providing that export and isn't now was exposing stuff the author intentionally marked as not.12:48
jbaileyseb128: If you're willing to play with libtool magic, try patching out the regex in libwnck/Makefile.am12:49
seb128k, thanks12:49
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jbaileyseb128: The right answer in the end is to get libwnck to export whatever functionlity devilspie needs.  I suspect we won't make too many friends by overexposing the internals.12:51
seb128I think I've found the change12:51
seb1282005-01-07  Matthias Clasen  <mclasen@redhat.com>12:52
seb128* configure.in:12:52
seb128* Makefile.am: Generate and distribute gmodule-export-2.0.pc,12:52
seb128which is currently just a copy of gmodule-2.0.pc, but makes12:52
seb128it explicit that it adds --export-dynamic.12:52
jbaileyOy yeah.12:52
seb128in glib12:52
jbaileyIn a feeder project like glib, globally changing symbol handling is bad karma. =)12:52
Kamionbah, why is the volume control icon appearing permanently muted on this upgraded-from-warty install, but not in the fresh-hoary install on the same machine12:56
seb128is the volume level to 0 on the boot on the upgrade ?12:56
jbaileyOr maybe rights to the audio device.12:56
KamionI can't unmute it even if I try, I doubt it's that12:56
Kamionnah, I'm in the audio group12:57
seb128is the sound working with aplay ?12:57
seb128and amixer12:57
jbaileyOoo!  you said fresh install!12:57
jbaileyKamion: can you check something for me after? =)12:57
Kamionnot that fresh :)12:58
Kamionbut I'll be doing loads of fresh installs tomorrow12:58
jbaileyKamion: 'kay.  I uploaded an initrd-tools that I think should get the swappartition detection right for resume, but I don't know if it worked.12:58
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jbaileyI uploaded it..  Friday, I think.12:59
Kamionamixer says [off]  for everything, aplay doesn't complain but doesn't do anything useful either01:00
ograKamion: try to change the device in the gnome-volume control01:00
Kamionthanks, that works :)01:01
ogralamont and i had the same prob...we should have a bug to remember it for upgrade notes i guess01:01
ogra(or to solve it indeed)01:02
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dokoMithrandir: The `--enable' options recognized by software in the gas distribution are:01:13
doko     This causes one or more specified configurations to be added to those for01:13
doko     which BFD support is compiled.  Currently gas cannot use any format other01:13
doko     than its compiled-in default, so this option is not very useful.01:13
dokoso, cannot build lib32gcc1, until elmo builds an i486 assembler for ia64 ...01:14
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doko... is not very useful ...01:14
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jbaileyHmm.  I wonder if it's expected that failing to recover a suspend-to-disk leaves me without a usable swap signature.01:21
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danielsMithrandir: you were seeing lots of questions asked on xorg upgrade, right?01:26
haggaidoko: thanks for your gsfonts upload01:29
mjg59thom: Did we ever get round to uploading an acpi-support set which used the locking?01:31
thomyeah, 0.1901:32
zenwhenlots of upgrades today\01:34
zenwhennothing that looks like it will make firefox less of a CPU hog though :/01:34
=== Clint- is now known as Clint
thomzenwhen: ...01:36
zenwhenthom, upgrading from array 4 to current a couple days ago made firefox render and perform like a total pig.01:37
thomzenwhen: stop powernowd and see if it still happens01:37
zenwhenthat seems a lot faster01:38
zenwhenwhat the hell is powernowd?01:39
zenwhenif it isn't important, I might kiss you.01:39
thomright, looks like kernel changes has made frequency scaling a lot more aggressive for some people01:39
thomzenwhen: reduces clock speed when you're not using it01:39
jdubthom: did you see the bug about the ondemand governor in the kernel?01:39
=== jdub has been trying it -> pretty good
zenwhenthom, wow... and it is enabled by default in hoary?01:40
thomit's enabled by default in warty01:40
thomand has been since day 0 pretty much01:40
zenwhenit must behave a bit differently in hoaryt01:40
zenwhenI never had this issue before now01:40
thomlike i said, i think it's a kernel change, but icbwe01:40
danielsthom: a *lot* more aggressive, it seems01:41
thomuh, s/e$//01:41
thomdaniels: nod01:41
zenwhenThanks a lot though01:42
zenwhenI suppose my bug I filed on firefox is fixed01:42
mrothdaniels: yes, it likes to speedstep my 3.2GHz cpu down to 400MHz if you let it ;-)01:46
mrothI get around it by editing /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq01:47
mroth /scaling_min_freq01:47
mdzthom: these reports of powernowd issues only started recently, much more recently than the most recent kernel update01:49
mdzI don't understand what changed01:50
thommdz: certainly powernow didn't, althought it maybe that it's able to control more cpus due to the way the fallback happens from detected to smi to the acpi controller01:50
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mdzthom: that stuff has been in for weeks/months too, though01:51
mdzthese bug reports seem to have started rolling in about a week ago01:51
thommmm, ubuntu9 shouldn't have made many noticeable changes01:52
danielsthom: did acpi-support change?01:52
danielsi thought we disabled powernowd on desktops01:52
mrothif so, it got re-enabled at some point01:53
thomno, we never disabled on desktops01:53
lamontmdz: I just filed comments on 5207 - dunno if we want to sync or not - I'll dig into it more tomorrow01:53
lamont(if you're not terribly averse to syncing it after reading the comments, that'd make my life much easier...)01:54
mdzdaniels: powernowd is enabled on any system which supports scaling01:54
mdzwhich means it isn't enabled on very many desktops01:54
danielsmdz: er, most modern desktops01:55
danielsmy athlonxp supported it, my a64 does01:55
danielsi believe p3s and p4s generally support it01:55
mdzlamont: what are the reverse build-deps?01:55
mrothI didn't know my P4 supported it until this week, but it did01:55
thommy amd64 doesn't, but lots and lots of desktop chips do01:55
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mdzdaniels: my athlon XP doesn't01:55
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lamont  netpipe-mpich,libmpich1.001:55
lamont  libpetsc2.2.0,libmpich1.001:55
lamont  libluminate6,libmpich1.001:55
lamont  illuminator-demo,libmpich1.001:55
lamont  blacs-mpich-test,libmpich1.001:55
lamont  mpich,libmpich1.0
mdzmy laptop is the only machine here which does01:55
lamontwhich is to say, not much....01:56
mdzout of 3 desktops and 2 laptops01:56
mdzmpich                                     | mpich                           | python-scientific (Build-Depend)         | Adam C. Powell, IV <hazelsct@debian.org>                                  |         1109900 |            554001:57
lamontmdz: my desktop does scaling..01:57
zenwhenmy desktop has been scaling01:57
zenwhenwithout my permission01:58
lamontzenwhen: it just assumes that you want to save power.01:58
=== lamont goes to run errands with his daughter for a bit
jdubwhich you do, don't you?01:58
zenwhenwell it was destroying the performance of my system.01:58
thomworth disabling it for desktops, via laptop-detect in postinst?01:58
jdubor are you one of those dolphin-killing types?01:58
lamontthom: I have no issue with it being enabled on my desktoip01:59
zenwhenI dont care how may trees have to burn to make my firefox faster. >:O01:59
mroththe current scaling is too aggressive, it scales too low and then takes too long to ramp back up01:59
lamontwhy run at 2.4GHz when 299MHz is enough...01:59
mjg59mroth: What speed does it scale to?01:59
=== lamont hadn't noticed
zenwhenIt made my system very crappy01:59
thomlamont: yes, but you're used to ia64s01:59
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zenwhenNow I am happy again01:59
lamontthom: heh01:59
thomthey're that slow anyway01:59
lamontactually, I'm used to ENORAM01:59
zenwhenYou might want to make it a little less agressive before hoary goes final01:59
mrothmjg59: my P4 3.2GHZ scales down to 400MHz01:59
mjg59If it's working on desktop CPUs, then the latency to speed up again may be increased01:59
zenwhenpeople are going to say ubuntu is slow02:00
mjg59mroth: Eww. Sounds like throttling rather than frequency modulation.02:00
mrothits possible.02:00
mjg59thom: We're still missing pointy-clicky ACPI enabling, right?02:00
thommjg59: nod02:00
mrothits especially noticeable when you first go to drag a window or whatnot, and get a lot of ghosting02:00
zenwhenmroth, I am right there with you02:01
zenwhenwhat chip and chipset?02:01
mjg59thom: Is that something that's reasonable for final, or should we just document it in the release notes for now and think about enabling it by default in hoary+1?02:01
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mrothzenwhen: intel p4 3.2 on an asus mobo02:01
mjg59On non-laptops, it might well make sense to keep the minimum speed higher02:01
zenwhenmroth, Intel 3.0Ghz P4, abit motherboard02:01
mjg59Hrm. 02:02
mjg59Actually, we should probably never be loading cpufreq-clockmod02:02
mrothyeah, on my desktop, I'd want it to be MUCH less aggresive.. only scale down after 5 minutes or inactivity, rather than a few seconds02:02
zenwhenI just disabled it02:02
mjg59Uh, p4-clockmod02:02
mjg59p4-clockmod drops speed, but not frequency, so it does nothing of any great use to reduce power consumption02:03
thomoh, right02:03
mdzthom: which signatures did you add in ubuntu9?02:03
mjg59Mobile P4s ought to be using speedstep02:03
mrothewh, thats no good then, not even reducing my power bill02:03
thomthat'd do it02:03
thom        Intel\(R\)\ Pentium\(R\)\ 4\ CPU*)02:03
thom            MODULE=p4-clockmod$EXT;;02:03
mjg59I mean speed but not power02:03
mjg59The frequency drops02:03
QuaruptWow, you are the guys who helped make Ubuntu?02:03
mjg59And they're not designed to ramp up quickly02:03
thommdz: permission to revert for prerelease?02:04
KamionQuarupt: most of the developers hang out here, yeah02:04
mjg59thom: Yeah, that one probably wants dropping02:04
mdzthom: yep02:04
jdubwoohoo :-)02:04
mjg59thom: Check that it does something different for mobile P4s02:04
QuaruptWell I just want o say thanks, cause Ubuntu is by far the best distro i have ever used :)02:04
Kamionyou're welcome :-)02:04
QuaruptIs there anything i can do to help?02:05
zenwhenI love how accessable and friendly you devs are.02:05
QuaruptI have allready handed out over 1000 copies of Warty at my Univ02:05
mdzQuarupt: right now we are preparing for the Hoary preview release on wednesday02:05
mjg59What's the procedure for getting something added to the release notes?02:05
zenwhengetting my system to stop running like crap has made my night.02:05
thommjg59: yes, it does02:05
mdzQuarupt: and we need as much installation and live CD testing as we can get02:05
mjg59thom: Rock02:05
jdubQuarupt: watch out for ubuntu love days -> www.ubuntu.com/wiki/UbuntuLove02:05
mrothyou guys need any log/config files on #7259, or is it 'nailed'? =)02:05
Kamionbug triaging and squashing if you can too; stuff >= major is generally bad02:05
Quaruptwill do02:06
thommroth: testing and uploading now02:06
mjg59Oh, argh. Lack of suspend to disk scripts on PPC.02:06
Quarupthey who is the Kubuntu guy(s)02:06
Kamionmjg59: yeah; I thought I mentioned that to you the other day02:06
zenwhen#kubuntu-devel is the channel for the kubuntu guys02:06
Kamionmjg59: pbbuttonsd doesn't have a "suspend to disk" command in its control interface, either02:07
Quaruptcause i think there should be a sys icon for updates in Kubuntu like in gtk, if possible02:07
mjg59Kamion: Yeah - sorry, I've had no time whatsoever to do anything Ubuntu related (Gnome release stuff)02:07
Kamionmjg59: nod02:07
Quaruptoh ok02:07
mjg59Kamion: Feck. Hmm.02:07
sabdflnight all02:07
mjg59Kamion: Is there a suspend to disk button on your machine?02:07
Kamionmjg59: no separate button, but you can configure pbbuttonsd to suspend to disk on whatever actions you wnt02:07
Kamionmjg59: well, unless you count the power button02:08
mjg59Kamion: Ah - you can do it but there's no nice UI to let you select it?02:08
Kamionmjg59: since my lid doesn't close properly, I prefer to keep the power button as s-t-r personally02:08
Kamionmjg59: well, you still need to provide /etc/power/ scripts02:08
mjg59Kamion: And s-t-r works nicely now?02:08
Kamions-t-r works fine, yeah02:08
mjg59Kamion: Yeah. We actually basically want the x86 scripts, but with some cruft removed02:08
Kamionmjg59: elmo said the current kernel killed his display hardware by permanently turning off the fans, though02:08
Kamionso I'm a bit leery of running it permanently at the moment02:09
mjg59Wurgh. Nothing to do with me, as far as I know.02:09
Kamiondunno if it really is the kernel or just elmo's bad luck02:09
mjg59Killed killed? On his powerbook?02:09
Kamionyes, his powerbook still switches on but the display hardware is dead02:09
mrothwow, thats a frightening bug02:09
mjg59They /are/ under software control, but I'm pretty sure there's hardware sanity override02:10
Kamionhe was using a second laptop as a terminal to it in Vancouver02:10
Kamioncould've been unrelated, I don't really know yet02:10
Quaruptwhere are ya guys based, do you have any physical offices or anything?02:10
KamionQuarupt: all over the place; most of us work from home02:10
mjg59Quarupt: This is about as close as you get02:10
mrothmjg59: I'd think so too, but now I *am* remembering reading something about something similar happening on Apple hardware under another situation where something was software controlled without a hardware sanity02:10
zulwha...what happened to elmo's laptop?02:10
danielszul: AFAICT, display hardware is dead in the water02:11
KamionQuarupt: (those of us employed by Canonical, that is; there are lots of community hackers too)02:11
QuaruptI love the open source community, it just has a good feel02:11
danielsinternal LCD doesn't work, neither does the TMDS transmitter02:11
zuloh that really really sucks02:11
mrothwas he under warranty?02:11
danielsso you're looking at GPU having burnt out or similar02:11
Kamionmroth: think so, it was newish02:11
mjg59mroth: Given that it was a replacement for one that got stolen last year, yeah02:11
mroththats forunate02:11
danielsyeah, it was only bought in Septemberish02:11
zuldaniels: well at least he is vancouver02:12
mrothfortunate even02:12
mjg59Ok, none of my patches seem to touch the code path02:12
thomubuntu10 uploaded, clockmod not loaded02:12
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Kamionelmo is vancouver? he looked smaller than that last time I saw him02:12
QuaruptWill the final Hoary installer hav an option of default window manager? If Kubuntu is stable by then?02:12
thomy'all will want to unload p4-clockmod and restart powernowd; or just reboot02:12
sabdflQuarupt: if you install  Kubuntu, you will get KDE, Ubuntu, Gnome02:13
Quaruptor will it continue to use Gnome?02:13
mroththom: when package hits archive i'll reboot and make sure it fixes itself by default02:13
QuaruptOh so they are like seperate Distro's?02:13
thommroth: cool, thanks02:13
sabdfland you can of course switch using synaptic any time02:13
jbaileyThat means I used to live inside elmo.02:13
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thomjbailey: now there's a scary thought for you02:13
Quaruptbut why make a different distro just wor a different WM?02:14
mdzQuarupt: KDE and GNOME are not window managers02:14
Quaruptsorry desktop enviroments02:14
jdubQuarupt: the distro itself is not hugely different, but the packages chosen for the default install and livecd are02:14
mdzthere are many reasons why it makes sense to keep them separate02:14
Quaruptbut the live cd is just a modified Morphix isnt it?02:15
mdzthere is a lot of work which goes into integrating the system nicely with the desktop environment02:15
mdzand there isn't enough space on a single CD to fit both02:15
danielsKamion: the evils of fast food, eh? :\ that and Krispy Kreme, I assume02:15
jdubQuarupt: doing this means we can have really incredibly cool GNOME version and really incredibly cool KDE version, both optimised for their users02:15
mdzQuarupt: the Ubuntu 4.10 live CD was based on Morphix; the Hoary live CD is a new creation02:15
mjg59Kamion: Well, I guess we'll find out whether it kills hardware in a couple of days :)02:15
Quarupthrm, I think i will dl the new live cd, i just have the warty one02:15
jdubQuarupt: but sharing the same underlying OS, so they both benefit from enhancements underneath02:15
mjg59mako: Around?02:15
Kamionmjg59: you getting a powerbook?02:16
mjg59Kamion: No, people will be installing preview02:16
danielsmjg59: do not be tempted!02:16
QuaruptAsking all these dumb questions is just holding you guys back from your work im sorry02:16
Kamionmjg59: oh right :)02:16
jdubi dunno how to do this on our website,02:16
mdzlamont: is amarok finished churning so that you can add that dep-wait?02:17
mrothis OOo 2.0 on schedule to be out in time for someone in MOTU to sync it for hoary?02:17
jdubwww.gnome.org + planet.gnome.org02:17
QuaruptThis is so cool, this is why open source rules, not like i could go into #windows and talk to the actual developers02:17
jdubbut i think it's pretty important02:17
haggailamont: ping02:17
thierryseb128: How can I make a patch for ubuntu? I only know the cvs diff -up > 123456.patch command for the gnome sources...02:18
QuaruptI can't wait untill all software patents are gone02:18
Quaruptbut anyways im switching back to gnome02:18
zulQuarupt: you are going to be waiting for a while02:18
zenwhenhey, is there some ETA on the ability to edit the gnome menu being added again?02:18
seb128thierry: basically the same02:18
thierryseb128: so I go in the directory and do cvs diff -up > 123456.patch ?02:19
zenwhenwill Hoary release with the gnome menu still being static and unchangable by the user?02:19
seb128the package doesn't use cvs02:19
jdubzenwhen: yes02:19
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jdubzenwhen: (unless you edit files in ~/.local, as per the menu spec)02:19
seb128thierry: diff between the source package and your copy modifier02:19
zenwhenjdub, why was such a step backwards taken?02:19
seb128that discussion again ?02:20
seb128please read the list archives02:20
jdubzenwhen: menu editing was never a supported feature anyway02:20
thomplease not again02:20
thierryseb128: ok... could you show me a command example of this?02:20
seb128thierry: man diff02:20
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zenwhenjdub: oh well. It seems like a huge loss to me.02:20
seb128thierry: diff -ur dir1 dir202:20
QuaruptIs there anyway i could get on some kinda list so i can get one of the first Hoary cd's when it goes final?02:21
mjg59zenwhen: I think it's recognised that it's a desirable feature. However, no workable mechanism was presented for 2.10, so it's not there. With luck, we'll have a solution for 2.12.02:21
seb128zenwhen: desktop apps provide a menu entry so that should not be needed02:21
seb128zenwhen: would be nice to have but there is no such editor for GNOME atm02:22
zenwhenI sometimes add applkications that arent installed by apt to the menu. I suppose I am not big on change that limits my ability to do things they way i am used to. I am sure I will adjust.02:23
KamionQuarupt: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/shipit has some stuff about Hoary CDs02:23
Kamionapt doesn't install anything to menus02:23
Quaruptcan i sell Ubuntu for the exact price of a blank CD so i can keep distributing them?02:24
Kamionkind of deprecated if you got the CDs from us for free :-)02:24
QuaruptThere are getting pretty popular at my Univ, one of the labs might even deploy em on some machines for testing02:24
Quaruptwell yea but you guys only send me like 50 at a time02:25
Kamionbut if you burn them yourself, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that; obviously check the various licensing conditions for things like the requirements on providing source02:25
QuaruptI am distrubuting almost 100 a week at my school02:25
thierryseb128: with diff -ur dir1 dir2, where is supposed to be the patch after that?02:25
zenwhenI once gave an ubuntu disk set to a girl and she fell in love with me and we had babies.02:25
zenwhenWell, I did give her a disk set.02:26
Kamionthierry: on standard output; if you want it in a file, do 'diff -ur dir1 dir2 > file'02:26
QuaruptYou guys will never sell out like RH or Suse will ya?02:26
mdzQuarupt: you can have as many as you can give away :-)02:26
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mdzQuarupt: it is permissible to burn CDs and sell them at any price, of course02:26
QuaruptCause i really feel like i finally found a distro with a good community that i can back 100%02:26
mdzQuarupt: but it's preferable to distribute the pressed CDs, because they have a much lower failure rate02:26
lamonthaggai: amarok build kicked02:27
jdubQuarupt: where do you live?02:27
lamonthaggai: tell me that kdebase is really already in the archive?02:27
mdzlamont: thanks02:27
Quaruptbut i doubt you guys would send me over 1000 cd's a month02:27
jdubQuarupt: going to local LUGs is good02:27
mdzlamont: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/k/kdebase/4:3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu4/02:27
QuaruptI am a CS major at Western Washington Univ02:27
mdzlamont: it built nearly an hour ago, so I should hope so02:27
lamonthaggai: saw the build failure on -ubuntu2, didn't see the amarok build finish (was just looking at main), got distracted.  my bad02:27
jdubQuarupt: plus, you could start a LoCo team02:27
lamontmdz: coolness02:27
zenwhenjdub: I am afraid I am going to have to ask you to slow development so I dont get left behind on my dialup connection.02:27
jbaileyQuarupt: In Bellingham?02:28
zenwhenit is only fair02:28
mrothQuarupt: heh, I think I know someone on your network staff there02:28
jbaileyQuarupt: How do you find people to give 1000 CD's a month to there? =)02:28
QuaruptYea, but i am only just now learning C and Java02:28
thierryseb128: is it normal that the .patch file I'm getting isn't looking like the .patch files I got with cvs diff -up > 123456.patch ?02:28
QuaruptI set up an open source kiosk02:28
Quaruptin the main hall02:28
mdzthere aren't much more than 1000 people in Bellingham ;-)02:28
seb128thierry: what do you mean ?02:28
Quaruptwith info on the open source movement02:28
lamontanything more before I run to the feed store?02:28
QuaruptMany students take 5 or 10 cd's for family and friends02:29
Quaruptwe have gone to WASu Eastern even some local community colleges02:29
QuaruptWe used to distribute Sarge and SID but after we found Ubuntu we switched after 2 days of testing02:30
QuaruptI wanna go down to seattle some time and set up my lil open source Kiosk02:30
mjg59Kamion: I'll look into making pbuttonsd do useful stuff for suspend to disk02:30
QuaruptMaybe even redmond, just to be ironic ;)02:30
thierryseb128, forget it, my fault...02:30
=== lamont bbiah
Kamionmjg59: coooooooool, thanks02:31
QuaruptAnyays guys keep up the good work, im sure you guys are on your way to making one of the most world recognized Distro's since RH02:32
mjg59Kamion: Of course, I'm hampered by not having any hardware with a pmu...02:33
QuaruptAnyone will to work with me for a lil bit to work on this prob i have been having?02:33
Quaruptjdub, maybe?02:33
calcmjg59: i have a jpeg of that oops if you are interested02:33
mjg59calc: Oh, yeah02:33
mjg59calc: URL?02:33
=== calc uploads it to his server
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mjg59Kamion: http://pbbuttons.sourceforge.net/projects/powerprefs/gfx/pp-sleeplocks-o.png is the UI in question?02:35
haggailamont: thanks02:35
Kamionmjg59: I haven't used powerprefs much ...02:38
mjg59Kamion: Is that the GUI you were talking about, or is there another one for config?02:38
jdubjdubtv! -> http://node.waugh.id.au/02:40
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tsengconnection refused02:41
jdubjdubtv! -> http://node.waugh.id.au:8800/02:41
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tsengoh i tried 808002:41
mrothjdub: er.. what app should that be opened in?02:43
thierryseb128, I want to make .patch for the ubuntu firefox package... any idea? The problem is that I have the source changed for ubuntu, the .diff of the changes and the orginal source... I did the changes to the ubuntu source. Now what are my two directory to make my .patch with diff? 02:43
tsengdo i want to watch battlestar, or jdub dancing?02:44
tsenggood jdub 02:44
tsengquite synced, id say02:44
crimsunpants, of course02:44
zuli think the answer is simple...jdub of course02:44
tsengPANTS OFF02:44
seb128thierry: I don't get what you say but basically: apt-get source package && cp package package1 && make your changes in package 1 && diff -ur package package102:45
mroththe framerate is pretty nice02:45
Kamionmjg59: did I mention a GUI?02:46
Kamion01:07 < Kamion> mjg59: no separate button, but you can configure pbbuttonsd to suspend to disk on whatever actions you wnt02:47
mrothjdub: what app are you using for the actual streaming?02:47
Kamionmjg59: oh, I meant in pbbuttonsd.conf. there might be a GUI, I'm not sure ...02:47
thierryseb128: ok02:47
mjg59Kamion: Ah, I see what you mean02:49
mjg59<Kamion> mjg59: pbbuttonsd doesn't have a suspend to disk command in its control interface, either02:49
mjg59Which control interface?02:49
Kamionmdz: so do you care which locale I pick to be artifically always supported in order to pull in language-{pack,support}-en02:49
Kamionmjg59: oh, I meant pbbcmd02:49
Kamion       TAG_GOTOSLEEP          command     config02:50
Kamion              Trigger sleep mode.02:50
mjg59Kamion: Ah, right02:50
Kamionthat's s-t-r02:50
Kamionand it's what powermanagement-interface uses02:50
Kamionbut there's no s-t-d equivalent, as far as I can see02:50
mdzKamion: nope02:50
Kamionen_US.UTF-8 it is then02:50
mjg59Kamion: Ok, that may be fixable02:50
jdubmroth: flumotion02:51
schweebhas there been much talk of Xen in Ubuntu?  updated packages possibly?  I've been messing around with it a bit lately02:52
makomjg59: hey dude02:54
makomjg59: was eating dinner02:54
mjg59mako: What's the procedure for getting stuff in the release notes?02:54
makomjg59: the release notes are being done by the docteam02:54
mjg59It would be good to note that suspend to RAM is disabled by default, how to enable it and note that it won't work everywhere02:54
makomjg59: write up what you want in there and email it to ubuntu-doc@l.d.o i guess is the best way02:55
mjg59mako: l.d.o? Really?02:56
thommjg59/ Kamion: what elmo said to be was basically that either s-t-r or s-t-d would work, but almost never both on the same ppc system; if you set sleep as s-t-d, tag_gotosleep will give you s-t-d 02:56
mjg59thom: Oh, bongtastic. I'll look at that.02:56
thomwhich is why pmi capabilities is as crack as it is02:57
mjg59I'll see if I can fix that up in pbbuttons02:57
QuaruptHey, can anyone tell me what ports the remote desktop app use?02:58
mjg59thom: Hrm. I can't actually see any code to do that.02:58
Quaruptand why we cant choose a port02:58
mjg59GOTOSLEEP always seems to do TORAM02:58
thomhuh, the docs suggest otherwise02:59
thomor, my memory of them does02:59
mjg59               case TAG_GOTOSLEEP:02:59
mjg59                        if (cfgure)     power_suspend (ACTION_TORAM);02:59
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QuaruptNo one seems yo know what ports i need to forward for remote desktop to work02:59
mjg59Quarupt: You're better off asking on #ubuntu02:59
Quarupti did03:00
QuaruptI thought maybe you guys would know if they didnt03:00
zulQuarupt: or you could check google03:00
zenwhenThis is more a development discussion channel03:00
zenwhennot so much tech support03:00
mjg59thom: There is code to do disk suspend in there, but no obvious way of calling it from pbcmd (or whatever)03:00
zenwhenThough many times you cna get an answer :P03:01
wasabiHmm. ANy consideration been given to EVMS support in the ubuntu installer?03:01
thommjg59: irritating03:01
mjg59thom: That's easy enough to fix, though03:01
makomjg59: ergh03:01
makomjg59: you know what i mean :)03:01
thommjg59: truth03:02
=== thom hugs libnss-mdns once more
thomyes, it means i use evil and non-free software to do local resolving03:02
thombut boy does it kick ass03:02
Kamionwasabi: we've talked about it, and I think it'd rock, but nobody's dedicated any time to it03:04
KamionI'd love to have the default partitioning be LVM of some flavour03:04
Kamionthere's a partman-auto-lvm package that Anton wrote in Oldenburg, but I don't know its current status03:04
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thierryseb128: when I do a diff to create a patch, I get a french output at the end : Seulement dans mozilla-firefox-1.0+dfsg.1/profile/defaults: bookmarks.html~ do I keep it?03:08
wasabiYeah. I saw the LVM support in the installer.03:08
wasabiI *love* it.03:08
wasabiit's so intelligent, how it lays out the LVM partitions, in teh same view, etc03:08
seb128thierry: as you want, it's not useful03:08
wasabiIt's just got the "this was done right" feeling to it.03:08
mjg59Could someone on PPC see if http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/pb.diff builds?03:09
thommjg59: building now03:11
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Kamionwasabi_: yeah, it's nice; there are definitely internal improvements that could be made to it, and the way the "configure LVM" bit is disconnected from everything else is suboptimal, but it's a good start03:14
thommjg59: Starting pbbuttonsd: pbbuttonsd 0.6.6: iBook/G3 PB Pismo/G4 PB Titanium (PMU version: 12)03:14
thomit even runs03:14
thomalthough it thinks my dual g4 desktop is a powerbook03:14
mjg59thom: Does doing pbcmd TAG_GOTODISK do anything?03:14
thommjg59: can't test, not supported03:14
thom(desktop system)03:15
thommjg59: however:03:16
thomMar  8 02:11:01 localhost pbbuttonsd: INFO: Script '/etc/power/pmcs-pbbuttonsd suspend ac disk' launched and exited normally03:16
Kamionkick ass03:16
thommjg59: also, fwiw the cmdline is  "pbbcmd config TAG_GOTODISK 1"03:17
mjg59thom: Rock. So we just need that patch and a script there that supports that.03:19
mjg59thom: The script probably just wants to be the x86 suspend to disk one, except without the fiddling of /sys/power/disk and without any of the video stuff03:19
=== lamont returns
mjg59mako: My post is being held for moderation - any chance of clearing it through?03:20
mroththom: testing clean boot after update to powernowd10... looks like powernowd was not enabled at boot now03:20
mrothyep looks good03:21
thommroth: rock, thanks for testing03:21
mrothmroth@shadowfax:~ $ sudo /etc/init.d/powernowd start03:21
mrothThis processor "Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.20GHz" is known _not_ to support power-saving.03:21
mroth * Starting powernowd...03:21
mroth * CPU frequency scaling not supported                                   [ ok ] 03:21
makomjg59: i'm not a moderator.. let me see if i know the password03:21
mroththom: thanks for fixing ;-)03:22
makomjg59: grr.. hmm.03:22
lamontthom: what if I _want_ scaling on my desktop?03:22
thierrysent a patch to ubuntu bug 3176 (branding)... If anyone want to check03:23
thierrygood night03:23
jdubmako: hmm?03:23
jdubmjg59: which list?03:23
thomlamont: set FREQDRIVER to p4-clockmod in /etc/default/powernowd03:23
mjg59jdub: ubuntu-doc03:24
mrothbased on what was said in here earlier though, p4-clockmod doesnt actually provide power savings, correct?03:24
tsengp4-clockmod actually degrades performance in some cases in my experience03:25
lamonttseng: I was partially just playing devils advocate...03:26
thom(i was just pointing out that it's still doable)03:27
lamonttseng: see - thom knows me...03:27
mrothrelease a special "nostalgia" version of ubuntu with p4-clockmod set to a static max of 233MHz03:28
mrothfor those who pine for the good ole days03:28
lamontmroth: that fast??03:28
Kamionnah, 4.77MHz03:28
KamionUbuntu XT03:28
mjg59mroth: It provides some power savings, but not a lot03:28
mrothheh, anything less i dont think people would get past the login screen03:28
makojdub: ubuntu doc03:29
makojdub: so about ubuntu-doc03:29
makojdub: the moderator basically resigned03:29
makojdub: from the project. not from the list (apprently)03:29
mjg59thom: Ph33r my power management skills in providing functionality on hardware I don't own03:29
mjg59If that could be included, it would be great. The GUI stuff probably needs updating as well, but that's not a great pain.03:30
mjg59And then it just needs the script.03:30
danielsKamion: xt > xp03:30
thommjg59: i'll sneak it in after preview03:30
mjg59thom: Rocking03:30
mjg59thom: Then we just need a GUI for x86...03:31
mjg59thom: Oh, suspend to disk should be supported on desktops. Dunno about SMP, though.03:33
jdubmako: uh huh03:34
thommjg59: i think benh said that pmu support on desktop ppc was minimal to non-existant03:34
mjg59thom: suspend-to-disk doesn't use pmu03:34
thommjg59: not at all?03:34
mjg59It's just swsusp03:34
thomhuh, ok03:34
mjg59There's only a tiny amount of ppc code, the rest is platform-generic03:35
mrothmy desktop has a s-t-d option on logout screen, I havent been brave enough to test it yet... should I?03:35
mjg59mroth: Give it a go03:35
mrothFOR SCIENCE!03:35
mjg59No idea what it'll do :)03:35
mroth(my uptime is really taking a beating today)03:35
mjg59Make sure that RESUME is set in /etc/mkinitrd/mkinitrd.conf03:35
mjg59If it isn't, set it and generate a new initrd (then reboot)03:35
Kamiondaniels: haha03:36
jdubmako: so... who should be admin?03:36
mrothmjg59: its not currently set in mkinitrd.  which means that the logout menu probably should be hacked to not show me the s-t-d option, no?03:36
=== Kamion sets off lots of CD image rsyncs for use tomorrow, and goes to bed
=== thom really -> sleep as i've been threatening for the last hour
mdzthom: night03:37
mdzKamion: night03:37
makojdub: enrico if he wants it.. else maybe froud or trickie03:37
mjg59mroth: Probably, yeah03:37
mjg59mroth: We'll worry about that after preview :)03:38
bluefoxicySetting up libgnome2-common (2.10.0-0ubuntu1) ...  <-- now I know four hours is too long for this.03:40
bluefoxicy(everybody knows already, just comic relief, moving on. . .)03:41
mjg59bluefoxicy: Most of the Gnome 2.10 tarballs have been uploaded03:42
bluefoxicymjg59:  yeah it's just hanging on about 5 or 6 packages now when configuring them03:43
bluefoxicyit literally does nothing03:43
bluefoxicybut I ahve an unkillable process ATM so it may be fucked kernel state.03:43
mjg59bluefoxicy: Oh, I see what you mean03:43
=== bluefoxicy doesn't want to reboot.
bluefoxicyeth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:E0:7D:78:CF:0503:43
bluefoxicy          RX bytes:3175903291 (2.9 GiB)  TX bytes:1705823287 (1.5 GiB)03:43
bluefoxicyAs you can see, I don't reboot much :)03:43
bob2mjg59: having resume= on the kernel command line isn't enough?03:43
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lamontWTH is nano a preferred alternative over vim??03:44
mjg59bob2: That's also adequate03:44
mjg59lamont: For non-unix people, nano is massively preferable to vim03:45
lamontmjg59: yeah, but it meant I finally had to figure out how to run update-alternatives.. :-)03:45
danielsbluefoxicy: that counter is crap anyway, it wraps too readily03:47
bob2I wrap 4gb every couple of days03:48
bob2that's not an impressive uptimometer03:48
lamont          RX bytes:9469925605 (8.8 GiB)  TX bytes:6379688640 (5.9 GiB)03:48
lamontbob2: you need bigger hardware03:48
danielslamont: no matter what hardware you have, the TX meter won't represent ~7TB03:48
macewanupgrading to 2.10 right now for testing - 03:49
bob2lamont: haha03:49
lamontdaniels: really?03:49
danielslamont: not AFAIK03:49
mjg59Oh, man, don't say that sort of thing to lamont03:49
danielsi resorted to looking at how many bytes had passed the OUTPUT table03:49
mjg59He'll pull some hppa thing out from somewhere03:49
lamontmjg59: heh03:50
danielsas long as he gives it to me, it's all good03:50
bob2it's not a 64-bit counter on 64-bit arches?03:50
bob2that seems stupid03:50
lamont7TB is only 7*2^40 - there's still 8 orders of magnitude left03:50
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bluefoxicyreboot fixed it.03:58
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deeznutzhey all... anyone got time to help me with a modprobe question?03:59
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lamontKamion: awake?04:00
lamontsomehow I didn't think so04:02
lamontmdz: where does passwd.config live?04:02
mdzlamont: in the passwd package04:02
mdzlamont: can you dep-wait amarok on kdemultimedia 4:3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu1?04:05
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lamontmdz: done04:06
lamont_bc-py.c:8:20: Python.h: No such file or directory04:06
lamontbeecrypt needs love04:06
macewanNice work on 2.10 04:07
bluefoxicyHi.  Can someone think up a better name than "System Health Information Terminal" for me?  I'll have a pastebin in a second.04:15
Quaruptits true04:16
Riddellwhat does Needs-Build mean in buildLogs/Lists?04:16
Quaruptcall it SHIT man04:16
bluefoxicygimme about 15-20 minutes04:17
Quaruptnono even better04:17
Quarupt"the SHIT"04:17
bluefoxicyI was looking at the smartmontools integration post and had a "better" idea on the same lines04:17
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Quaruptwhich one of you wites all the howto's and stuff thats on the wiki page?04:20
Quaruptor is it allot of people who do it?04:20
lamontmdz: I'm planning on a postfix upload after preview, to close #2683, #6232.04:28
mdzRiddell: pretty much what it says; there is a new source version available and it needs to be built04:28
lamontbtw, what's the process for post-preview, anyway?04:28
mdzlamont: ok04:28
mdzpost-preview is going to be pretty much like FeatureFreeze, at least to start04:28
mdzwe'll likely be rushing to fix new stuff that's uncovered by preview04:28
lamontok.  then eventually it becomes "as for a blessing from mdz/jdub for every upload" I expect?04:29
mdzwhen we get close to the release candidate, yes, we'll be more strict04:29
mdzQuarupt: there are a lot of people who have written howtos in the wiki04:30
mjg59Uh. It turns out that it's policy for the release notes not to refer to other documentation, because it might move.04:33
=== mjg59 boggles slightly
zulmdz: some of the sound problems we are seeing might be if they have a slmodem isntalled as well, i need to verify it, just a theory though04:36
zulsound cards that use snd_intel8x004:37
bluefoxicyhttp://rafb.net/paste/results/caaUvh34.html  <-- System Health Information Terminal04:41
mdzzul: bug #2011?04:42
bluefoxicytaht's just a rough outline idea, and of course some things are obviously just "to give an idea," i.e. Ubuntu doesn't use PaX/GrSec (possibly in the future?) or supply "Firewall modules"04:42
zulmdz: 681004:42
bluefoxicythink I should fire it at ubuntu-devel@ and see what the ML thinks?04:43
mdzzul: it shouldn't be a problem with jdthood's changes to use a higher index for that driver04:43
bluefoxicythere was talk about coding a Gnome applet or task tray thingy to give feedback based on smartmontools, so maybe a more complete attack on system health monitoring would also be good to consider04:43
zulmdz: ok just a theory though04:44
zulbecause i have snd_intel8x10 and i dont have a problem but i dont have a modem 04:45
=== bluefoxicy decides to bug ubuntu-devel@ with it.
zulanyways im off to bed04:49
mdzlamont: what's the expected lag time for the retry of amarok to happen, now that kdemultimedia has built?04:55
mdzlamont: does kdemultimedia need to be Installed first?04:56
lamontit will free up in the cron.daily run that installs kdemultimedia04:56
lamont(no autobuilding of accepted here...)04:56
Quaruptanyone ever tried to use wine with dreamweaver?04:59
mdzlamont: so kdemultimedia installed at :03, amarok installed at :33?05:00
lamontassuming that it builds in < 20 minutes, yes05:00
mdz(assuming it succeeds)05:00
mdzit built in less than 20m on my desktop, so I should hope so05:00
lamontinstalled at :03, amarok build begins < 5 min later.  must be done and signed by :29 to meet the :00 cron.hourly05:01
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mdzogra: night05:08
Mithrandirdoko: ok, so ia32-libs should make a lib32gcc1 package on ia64.05:17
Mithrandirdaniels: correct05:18
danielsMithrandir: cool.  think I've got a fixed package for you.05:19
Mithrandirdaniels: rock.  Can it wait for a few hours so I don't wake Karianne?05:19
Mithrandirit's 05:19 here atm, but I couldn't sleep.05:19
danielsMithrandir: sure :)05:20
=== lamont considers just turning off the livecd build attempts on ia64 for a while
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cybrjackleHow come gnome-2.10 packages are in hoary if gnome-2.10 isn't release yet?05:28
fabbionedaniels: ping05:28
fabbionedaniels: i think there is a bug in xorg 6.8.2 that is a regression on 6.8.105:29
mdzlamont: hmm, amarok doesn't seem to be Building yet05:30
fabbionethe lib that pass the video info (size) to players is broken somehow05:30
lamontcybrjackle: because hoary is taking risks...05:30
lamontmdz: grumble05:30
fabbionebut i need to investigate it more05:30
danielsfabbione: libXv?05:30
danielsseems to work ok here ...05:31
cybrjacklethx lamont 05:31
fabbionedaniels: can you try it on a dual head + xinerama?05:31
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stuNNedthnx for your diligent work fixing teh xorg issues :D05:31
fabbionedaniels: i get the problem when i go full screen with xv05:31
fabbionemplayer gets a really distorted image05:32
fabbioneit is like half of the movie goes out of screen05:32
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fabbioneit seems like it tries to scale the movie to both heads, but plays only on one screen05:32
fabbionehence half movie05:32
danielsfabbione: oh, a Xinerama issue?05:33
danielsfabbione: not right at the moment05:33
BenoniWhat's a good way for a configure script to identify that it is running on Ubuntu, and to further identify the specific Ubuntu release (e.g. Hoary)?05:33
danielsbut I'll check it out for you05:33
lamontmdz: Mar  8 04:05:04 buildd-mail: kdemultimedia must be manually dinstall-ed -- delayed05:34
fabbionedaniels: just let me know if you can reproduce it05:34
mdzBenoni: /etc/lsb-release05:34
danielsfabbione: sure05:34
fabbionedaniels: i think it is a combinantion actually. not only xinerama05:34
lamonter, ENOELMO, ENEW05:34
thullyincidentally, it also looks like kde 3.4 is going in at the same time05:34
Benonimdz: Sweet.  Looks like exactly what I needed.  Thanks!05:35
lamontcybrjackle: those 2.10 packages are the current release candidates, iirc.  but I really don't know.05:35
Amaranthno elmo?05:35
cybrjacklethats what i was thinking since ftp.gnome.org is still at 2.9.9105:35
thullywell, one side benefit of KDE packages going in main the issues with not having a more advanced cd burning app are partially solved by having k3b there05:36
mdzlamont: I am a virtual elmo05:36
lamontmdz: that helsp05:36
Amaranththully: kde libs have been there since warty05:36
Amaranthoh, you mean in main05:36
thullyyes - in main05:36
cybrjackleWhat about graveman?05:37
thullyisn't that universe?05:37
mdzlamont: ACCEPTed05:37
thullyI looked at the newly-built set of DVD images, and it looks like they don't include KDE except for libs.  Why? 05:37
lamontmdz: through the wonders of cron.daily love, you can speed things up by 25 minutes or so...05:37
mdzthully: because we don't build Kubuntu DVDs yet05:38
thullyyes, but I thought those DVDs were supposed to contain all of main05:38
lamontmdz: I thought the plan was to have the DVD's include all of main, no?05:38
thullyIt would be nice to have an "everything DVD" for the release, with all of main (with KDE) and a KDE/GNOME live image05:39
mdzthey use the Ubuntu germinate output05:39
mdzand they are to include all of Ubuntu supported, which is not the same as main at this point05:39
mdzwe'll have to figure out what this means for the DVD05:40
lamontah, ok05:40
jdublamont: (we get the gnome tarballs as they're released - there just hasn't been an official aggregate release yet.)05:40
thullyso, so the KDE packages aren't supported?  Does that just refer to commercial support, or bug reports as well05:40
lamontjdub: ah, even better than I'd kinda thought05:40
mdzlamont: I am not going to tempt fate by messing with cron.daily05:40
lamontthully: there is Ubuntu-supported, and Kubuntu-supported05:41
lamontmdz: kubuntu livecd rootfs is b0rked, but I expect you knew that05:41
mdzlamont: no, I didn't. why?05:41
mdzlamont: can we have those logs published somewhere automagically?05:42
thullyoh - well, I thought Ubuntu and Kubuntu were the same distro, just with a different selection of packages (as they share the same repos, and website)05:42
mdzthully: they are different distributions05:42
bluefoxicy<Psyda> hmm...  find your keyboard layout by pressing some keys sounds interesting05:43
bluefoxicy<Psyda> mine isn't in the list.  I have a canadian bilingual05:43
bluefoxicyyou people actually deployed that thing in the array 6 installer?  o.O05:44
=== bluefoxicy guesses it's an untested concept and it might, MIGHT actually prove to be not so annoying yet very helpful for nontechnical users who for some odd reason have a non-standard keyboard
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jdubbluefoxicy: that's not a particularly diplomatic or positive way to ask your question05:45
bluefoxicyjdub:  it wasn't meant to be.05:45
macewanLike the Device Manager Hardware Database thingy. Nice.05:45
bluefoxicyit was a highly opinionated comment05:45
jdubbluefoxicy: then you should probably leave, and come back when you're ready to play nice.05:45
lamontdpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ksvg_4%3a3.3.2-1ubuntu4_i386.deb (--unpack):05:49
lamont trying to overwrite `/usr/share/mimelnk/image/svg-xml.desktop', which is also in package kdelibs-data05:49
mdzlamont: Riddell has gone to sleep, and amu isn't awake yet05:50
lamontmdz: they're available in-LAN, but that's all right now...05:51
mdzlamont: what are?05:51
mdzoh, the los05:51
lamontI can work on making them published tomorrow05:51
lamontbuild logs05:51
mdzlamont: did that run just recently?05:51
lamonthttp://<host>/~buildd/livecd/*ubuntu/latest/*.out :-(05:52
lamont04:15 is the kubuntu runtime05:52
lamontis now 04:5205:52
mdzI guess it has most of the latest stuff, then05:52
lamontyeah -probably just a missing replaces or 405:52
lamont(4 pkgs had errors)05:52
mdzKDE likes to move things around between releases05:52
lamontmore fun that way, eh?05:53
mdzRiddell did upload a new kdegraphics05:53
mdzso that will probably avoid this issue and let us get a rootfs built05:54
mdzbut please file a bug so they can fix it tomorrow05:54
lamontmdz: I'll file a bug with all the errors05:54
lamontbeen thinking...05:54
mdzonce the new kdegraphics builds, we can retry it05:55
mdzor not05:55
lamontwith all seb128's uploads today, the livecd tomorrow is going to be nearly a full download anyway...  do we want to toss amd64 to the wolves now?  (well, OK maybe not that big a change, overall...)05:55
Mithrandirlamont: thanks for the xpdf hint05:56
lamontreally depends on how much the binaries changed between the two releases05:56
lamontMithrandir: looking at that more, I don't know if it'll help... just need to s/int/long/ in those two variables...05:56
lamontbut it looked like it was passing an int in a pointer, not the otherway around05:56
lamontcould be something in a called lib with the same error, though05:57
Mithrandiryeah, I did the trivial fix and we'll see if that helps.05:57
mdzlamont: sure, tonight's probably as good a night as any05:57
lamontok.  tanking away then.05:57
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lamontlast chance to say 'no'05:58
lamontwell, ok.  it isn't really, but I don't want to have to copy it back in...05:58
lamont(which is to say, amd64 will get a brand new, virgin rootfs image, and therefore not rsync very well at all tomorrow.)05:59
Mithrandirlamont: let them burn, poor amd64 users.  Or something.  A clean rootfs would be nice for preview anyhow.06:00
lamontMithrandir: if you want both worlds, get me a working partimage :-)06:00
MithrandirI guess that goes in the "nontrivial to fix" category?06:01
lamontuh, yeah06:01
lamontpartimage believes in sizeof(long)==sizeof(ptr)==4, quite strongly06:01
bluefoxicy<Psyda> it says ./dists/hoary/main/binary-i386/Packages failed the MD5 checksum06:02
bluefoxicywhoever invented CD-Rs needs to be shot with the intar06:02
lamontmdz: you want that filed against livecd? I assume?06:02
mdzlamont: no, against the package at fault06:03
Mithrandirlamont: you can use the 32 bit version for making the fs, though that's horribly ugly.06:03
lamontmdz: right06:03
mdzit'll break for upgraders too, I assume06:03
bluefoxicywyh are cd-rs so fragile, and is there a way to deal with this error06:03
lamontMithrandir: I'm not going to create a while i386 chroot on the beast just to do that06:03
lamontbluefoxicy: slower speed?06:03
Mithrandirlamont: understandably.06:03
mdzGAH, amarok failed again06:04
bluefoxicylamont:  it was already burned at 1x06:04
mdzah, it got the old kdemultimedia again06:04
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lamontmdz: pay no attention to amarok for a minute06:04
bluefoxicylamont:  also the only system iwth a CD R there is now blank and needs to be installed06:04
bluefoxicyno CDs can be burned until then.06:04
mdzamarok is what I am waiting for so that I can bring it into main and update kubuntu-meta06:04
lamontyeah - I made an assumption about kdemultimedia and gave it back manually right before I figured out ==NEW06:05
lamontis now building on all 306:05
lamonterr, 406:05
Mithrandirlamont: does the problem show while building or when running?06:06
bluefoxicyso there's no way to install and ignore all MD5 sum failures?06:07
mdzfabbione: how is sparc doing with the backlog? :-)06:08
fabbionemdz: it is catching up. already done libc6. it is munging gcc3.4 and gcc4.0 is next06:08
fabbionemdz: already manually unrolled the libhowl problem06:08
lamontMithrandir: was a user complaint that sometimes it failed while he was running it06:08
fabbionemdz: it will take a few days to really catch up on everything :(06:09
lamontmdz: it didn't help that about 3 other packages were dep-wait kdemultimedia, it seems06:09
mdzfabbione: if you could arrange for ubuntu-meta to be built soon, that would help06:09
fabbionemdz: sure i can06:09
Mithrandirlamont: do you have a command line invocation for the beast?06:09
lamontMithrandir: xpdf {filename}06:10
fabbionemdz: if there is more just tell me because gcc takes ages to build here06:10
fabbionedoes debhelper have any option to show only udebs from a control file?06:11
Mithrandirlamont: no, the partimage stuff.06:11
fabbioneala dh_listpackages ?06:11
Mithrandirfabbione: no, because there is no flag in debian/control saying "this is a udeb"06:11
lamontoh. partimage.06:11
lamonthard coded check in the build is the first failure.06:12
lamontdefeating that only leads to pain and suffering06:12
Mithrandirlamont: builds fine on my amd64 here.06:12
lamontah, run it.06:12
lamontwith any args, iirc.06:12
fabbioneMithrandir: what about the XC-Package-Type: udeb06:13
Mithrandirit's a start06:13
Mithrandirfabbione: new-fangled stuff. :)06:13
lamontpartimage -b -z0 --nodesc -f3 -c -o -y save $DEV partimg-${IMGNAME}06:13
lamontwhere dev is /dev/hda5 or whatever, and parimg-${IMGNAME} is some file name06:13
Mithrandiryup, thanks06:13
thullymdz: one little question concerning Kubuntu/Ubuntu relation - if you run both GNOME and KDE, is that a valid bug reporting platform?  I wonder what distribution that would be, *[Uu] buntu, maybe?   :)06:14
fabbionemdz: ubuntu-meta uploaded. anything else i need to do manually?06:16
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=== lamont grumbles about how bz is the quickest way he knows to overrun his bandwidth quota for any given 5-minute sample
=== Mithrandir wonders if he found the ultimate, evil fix for the evilness that is partimage.
lamontmdz: actually, these fails-to-install bugs are in a virgin install...  so it's not really a replaces' thing after all... :-(06:21
lamontMithrandir: what's taht?06:21
=== lamont thinks he already tried that...
Mithrandirlamont: redefining DWORD to be int06:21
lamonttried that06:21
Mithrandirblows up in interesting ways?06:21
lamontuh, yeah.  iirc06:21
Mithrandirpeople using DWORD and shit in their code should be kicked in the nuts.06:22
lamontit likes to cast DWORD -> pointer, iirc.06:22
Mithrandirthis is C++, why does it do all that kind of stuff?06:22
lamontyeah - it's an amusing build log if you do the redefine...06:22
MithrandirI can see that..06:22
Mithrandircompiling now.06:22
lamontC++ does not force good coding.  it merely makes it easier to deal with if you _do_ write good code.06:23
Mithrandirit might just be work to fix that, though.06:23
lamontsadly, many places believe the reverse of that06:23
MithrandirI don't like C++, but it does actually give you some decent tools to write applications instead of fiddling bits, which is what you very easily end up with C.06:23
Mithrandirs/end up/& doing/06:23
lamontyeah, guess so.,06:24
MithrandirC is just the wrong language for a lot of the stuff people are using it for.06:24
lamont+../../../../amarok/src/plugin/libplugin.la -lkdecore -lakode 06:24
lamontgrep: /usr/lib/libltdl.la: No such file or directory06:24
lamont/bin/sed: can't read /usr/lib/libltdl.la: No such file or directory06:24
lamontsorry mdz06:24
lamontmdz: that's with the new kdemultimedia06:25
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Mithrandirew, partimage has BEGIN; and RETURN; as part of different methods and stuff.06:32
=== froud-away is now known as froud
mdzlamont: kdegraphics is busticated, too06:44
lamontah, I see..06:44
mdzlooks like amu will have work to do when he wakes up06:44
crimsunsound-juicer eventually hardlocks my machine, and it appears to be sg-related06:45
crimsuneh, wtf. I meant gnome-cd, not sound-juicer.06:47
fabbioneanybody up for reviewing a couple of patches? (kernel and kernel-wedge related)06:48
fabbionehttp://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/k-w.diff <- kernel wedge06:48
danielslamont: needs libltdl-dev06:48
fabbionethe patch is harmless and it does not break backward compatibility06:49
fabbioneit allows the kernel to export the pkgfilterlist env var to limit the list of packages to process06:49
fabbionelike the ones that ends in -di ;)06:50
fabbionecasually.. they match the udebs we need to process, skipping the others06:50
fabbionethe other patch is a change to the kernel debian/rules to export such env var06:51
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mdzcan anyone give me the 60-second tutorial on how to add a patch to a package which uses cdbs simple-patchsys?06:52
mvomdz: cdbs-edit-patch should do with recent cdbs06:52
Treenakshmm.. mvo is faster..06:52
mdzthere are some patches in debian/patches, and some in debian/patches/common06:53
mdzwhich one will cdbs-edit-patch act on?06:53
mvomdz: probably debian/patches06:53
mdzI don't understand the difference between that and /common/06:54
mvomdz: what packages is that? I haven't seen such a layout yet06:54
mdzDEB_PATCHDIRS := debian/patches/common debian/patches06:54
froudmvo: good morning. 07:01
froudmvo guten morgen07:01
mvohey froud! any luck with svn?07:01
mvofroud: guten morgen, man spricht deutsch ;)07:02
froudmvo: nien!!! Mithario still has not sorted out his svn problem and frankly I want to complete the update-manager manual. I am not waiting for him any longer. please email me your changes and I will email the file back to you when I am finished07:03
mvofroud: :( it's a very unfortunate situation. I'll send you the update-manager.xml file from trunk and will merge it back to svn. let's hope we find a solution quickly :/07:07
froudmvo: it's not the best way to work, but at least if we can shuttle the document between us and you can do the commits it will be better than full-gas in neutral07:07
froudmvo: thank07:08
froudmvo: danke schurn07:08
mvofroud: I need to look over the comments again, give me ~30minutes07:08
mvofroud: my comments are in "<!-- mvo:"07:09
mvostyle comments07:09
Mithrandirif I understand correctly, the usplash stuff would have to go in the initrd, right?  So using C++ there is something we _really_ don't want, unless we want libstdc++ and friends in the initrd?07:12
Quaruptman, the usb thumb drive you guys put together is so fool proof, and faster than windows great job07:27
Quaruptusb thumb drive integration *07:28
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fabbionemdz: do i have green light to upload kernel-wedge with that change?07:39
fabbione(lamont agress that it is the less intrusive change at 4 weeks from release)07:39
fabbioneit is not essential for preview, but it will give us time to have it propagated and test the other fixes to the kernel build system07:40
Mithrandirdbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=no.err.tpbd /no/err/tpbd/tpbd no.err.tpbd.key_state_get string:thinklight07:47
Mithrandirmethod return; sender=:1.3107:47
=== Mithrandir presses thinklight button
Mithrandir dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=no.err.tpbd /no/err/tpbd/tpbd no.err.tpbd.key_state_get string:thinklight07:47
Mithrandirmethod return; sender=:1.3107:47
=== lamont sleeps
mdzfabbione: if it is not essential for preview, please wait until after preview07:56
fabbionemdz: sure.. no problem at all07:57
mdzwe will not build a new kernel untitl then anyway07:57
fabbionenot at distro level, but it will help me having it in the different chroots for test build on all arches07:57
fabbionesince there are a few tweaks that needs to be done here and there07:58
mdzneed sleep, good night07:58
fabbionegood night07:58
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sabdflmorning all08:02
froudmvo: thanks got it08:02
Mithrandirgood morning, o' glorious leader.08:03
sabdflMithrandir: steady on there, big guy :-)08:03
fabbionemorning sabdfl 08:03
sabdflfabbione: ! settling back?08:04
sabdflgot to head out now, back later08:04
fabbionesabdfl: already rocking 100%08:04
sabdfland the last 10%?08:04
fabbionesabdfl: coming up today...08:04
fabbionei had to get over the jetlag :(08:04
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sabdflinterview this morning on CNN, will try and plug FREE SOFTWARE08:08
fabbionegood luck sabdfl 08:08
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Mithrandiroh, cool.08:08
danielssabdfl: enjoy08:09
fabbionehey pitti08:09
Mithrandirit would be nice to get it a copy of that08:09
pittidaniels: hey08:09
danielspitti: hey dude :)08:09
pittidaniels: do you think we can solve the X keyboard problem today?08:09
danielspitti: let me get those two for you08:09
pittidaniels: (didn't read my mails yet)08:09
danielspitti: the german thing?  i'm not really sure, to be honest, but I'll have a look08:11
pittidaniels: do you think this is German-specific?08:12
pittidaniels: setting PC104/U.S. seems like a general fallback08:13
pittidaniels: and your detection script almost got it right08:13
danielsMithrandir: xorg 6.8.2-3 builds are spinning on concordia, davis, halley and my laptop; grab xserver-xorg, xorg-common and xserver-common for amd64 when concordia's finished (I'll ping you if I notice first) and your upgrade issues should be solved08:13
danielsMithrandir: I'd upload mine, but xserver-xorg is 50MB08:13
pittidaniels: I'm currently booting the live cd, shall I try another language?08:13
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pittidaniels: btw, if you build another X, please think about CAN-2005-060508:13
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danielspitti: have to work out why the German thing is happening08:14
danielspitti: yeah, working on that too08:14
danielsstupid xpm08:14
pittidaniels: didn't the script debug output help?08:15
pittidaniels: I don't know which thing is writing the wrong values into xorg.conf08:15
pittidaniels: shall I boot with another language?08:18
danielspitti: the script debug output confused me -- it *should* be working08:19
danielsi'll look into it today though08:19
pittiokay, thanks08:19
pittidaniels: I currently download the current live cd, then we can test again with the latest crack08:19
fabbionedaniels: an ati radeon 7500 is any good?08:19
Mithrandirdaniels: nice08:19
danielspitti: cool08:19
danielsfabbione: good, no.  useful to me, yes. :)08:20
danielsfabbione: i mean, it works, and it will do basic 3d stuff08:20
danielsbut not games08:20
fabbionei don't need 3d08:20
danielsvery well supported under xorg08:20
fabbioneonly 2D08:20
danielsah cool08:20
danielsthen it's fine08:20
=== jdub doesn't feel ill, but can't stay awake for more than a couple of hours at a time :|
fabbionedaniels: do you know if it has dual head or tv out capabilities?08:21
danielsfabbione: in some cards, yes08:22
danielsfabbione: people kept making radeon 7500s for pci very late, so if you get a newer pci 7500, it should have both of those things08:22
danielsjdub: :\08:22
fabbionedaniels: well i will check what i get if i get it08:23
danielsfabbione: cool08:23
danielsfabbione: i have a whole bunch of radeons here, all served me very well08:23
fabbionedaniels: good08:24
danielsfabbione: 7500 (pci -- i think; it's coming), 8500 (agp), 9000 (agp), 9200 (agp), x300 se (pcie), and x850 xt pe (pcie)08:24
danielsall good cards08:24
fabbionegood to know08:25
Mithrandiris the x300 and x850 possible to use with free drivers?08:25
fabbionedist-upgrade of multiseat went really wrong08:28
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danielsfabbione: oh?08:31
danielsMithrandir: 3d, no08:31
fabbionedaniels: (EE) Generic Keyboard 3: cannot register with evdev brain08:31
fabbionethat's the X changes to the config08:31
Mithrandirdaniels: suckage.  I'll stay with my 8500, then08:31
fabbione(EE) Configured Mouse 3: cannot register with evdev brain08:31
danielsfabbione: how would X be writing out 3 config files, then?08:31
danielsMithrandir: good plan08:31
danielsfabbione: er, 3 input devices ... make that 4, if we're zero-based :)08:32
fabbionedaniels: these are inside the layouts08:32
fabbioneit was starting before08:32
fabbionenow it doesn't :-)08:32
Mithrandirdaniels: problem is, once I switch mainboard, I probably won't have AGP any more08:32
danielsfabbione: right, which means it's either PCI or PCIE08:33
danielsfabbione: OH08:34
danielsfabbione: s/Device/Dev Device/ in the config file08:34
danielsfabbione: the config file *parser* fills in /dev/psaux if Device is empty08:34
fabbioneit doesn't start even with the old config08:34
danielsfabbione: so you couldn't specify Dev Phys/Dev Name and not a device :\08:34
fabbionejeee it was working like a charm before08:35
pittiKamion, mdz: here?08:35
fabbionedaniels: but why did you change Device -> Dev Device?08:38
danielsfabbione: because Device was always filled in08:40
danielsfabbione: if you didn't want to specify it, it would get filled with /dev/psaux08:40
danielsbecause the config file parser is crap08:40
fabbioneit was never empty with the old config08:40
danielsso you'd be listening for events on a non-evdev device08:40
fabbionebecuase we were using Device to point to /dev/multiseat/<device>08:40
danielsright, but remember I was telling you about how the devices didn't get registered with the old setup?08:41
danielsneither me nor gus ever got a full set of mice08:41
fabbioneyes but you basically killed keyboard and mouse hotplug08:41
fabbionethat is just plain wrong08:41
fabbionebecuase X doesn't understand regexps08:41
danielsi know, but it was either have it all working with no hotplug, or have half of it working with hotplug08:41
danielserr ... you do know that the evdev driver does take and evaluate regexps, right?08:42
danielsfor Dev Phys08:42
fabbionewell the new config doesn't start 2 heads out of 4 here08:42
danielshave a look at xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/os-support/linux/lnx_evdev.c08:42
danielsok, what's the error?08:42
fabbione(WW) Option "Dev Phys" requires an string value08:43
fabbione(EE) Generic Keyboard 3: cannot register with evdev brain08:43
fabbione(WW) Option "Dev Phys" requires an string value08:43
fabbione(EE) Configured Mouse 3: cannot register with evdev brain08:43
danielsi'm willing to solve any problems -- and I know that hotplug needs to be solved -- but this is the only thing that was even close to working for me and gus08:43
danielsand what's the Dev Phys option there now?08:43
fabbione        Option          "Dev Phys"              ""08:43
fabbionethe other config seems ok, but it doesn't start08:44
fabbionethe last head is missing the PCI id too08:45
pittiyay, hal 0.5.008:47
=== pitti uploads
pitti(just kidding)08:47
fabbionethis is weird08:48
danielsok, looks like the $agp* stuff is broken08:49
danielscan you please run multiseat-configurator with sh -x and email me the output?08:49
fabbioneLayout0 starts, but it doesn't display anything08:49
fabbionedaniels: you can ssh to cerberus :-)08:49
torkelpitti: together with dbus 0.31? :-)08:50
fabbionedaniels: you also have sudo access08:50
pittitorkel: yes; however, all hoary+1 crack (but goood crack)08:50
pittitorkel: this should finally get rid of hanging hal processes on USB races08:50
pittitorkel: also it supports unified ACPI/APM/PMU power management08:51
pittiand lots of other stuff08:51
torkelpitti: I look forward to try it :-)08:52
danielsOH, I see, crap08:53
danielsfabbione: you have both 1:0:0 and 5:4:008:53
fabbione1:0:0 is the AGP08:54
fabbionethe others are PCI08:54
danielsi'll install multiseat 0.9.5, which has pcibustype integrated08:54
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danielsfabbione: try that09:03
fabbionemultiseat-configurator only?09:04
danielsalready configured, gdm should work now if you restart it tho09:04
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fabbioneit did hang very hard09:06
fabbioneinitializing the AGP card as last09:06
danielsis that the primary display?09:06
danielsgotta grab dinner, brb09:07
fabbioneyes it is09:07
danielstry putting the primary display first?09:26
fabbionei am testing...09:27
dokofabbione: do you plan a kernel upload before the preview release?09:28
fabbionedoko: no09:29
dokook, could you have a look at http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2005-March/000086.html?09:29
fabbioneis that the mISDN stuff?09:30
fabbionedoko: i have no problems with it09:31
dokono, that is just a dependency package. ok. I'm uploading it.09:32
fabbioneafter preview please09:32
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fabbioneotherwise you need to get mdz, jdub greenlight09:32
dokofabbione: yes, I'll ask, or else, the now existing drivers won't work, if the firmware is missing09:33
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dokothe mISDN stuff should be enabled after the preview, disabled the avmfritz portion, verified that it works with the hfcpci driver09:34
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fabbionedoko: i am not too happy about mISDN09:35
fabbioneupstream has been inactive for too long09:35
dokowell, the snapshot is dated 20050225, but I didn't monitor their activity ...09:37
fabbionedoko: it was removed because upstream didn't update in months09:38
fabbioneand i am not happy at all to readd it09:38
fabbionespecially if they are going to disappear again09:38
fabbionedaniels: starting Layout3 as first crash the machine in a more interesting way09:39
fabbioneit starts the server09:39
fabbioneand as soon as the gdm login appears, X crashes and the machine hangs09:39
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dholbachgoooood morning09:40
dokosmurfix: ping09:41
smurfixdoko: 09:42
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Treenaksmorning sabdfl09:43
sabdflhiya Treenaks09:44
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sabdflhaggai: around?10:16
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opihi sabdfl 10:18
sabdflhi opi10:26
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mvoMithrandir: around?10:43
jordimvo: I'm first on the queue dude :)10:45
mvojordi: hrm, crap :)10:47
jordiSimira would be helpful too.10:56
jordiWhere are the Norwegians today...10:57
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mvojordi: Mithrandir was around when I got up at 6 in the morning. not sure if the was still up or got up even earlier :)10:59
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jordimvo: dude11:02
jordimvo: we're bashing synaptic right now11:02
jordimpt_london has introduced me to this fine sport11:03
jordimvo: I'm looking for translation errors, and I see a few issues in prefs11:03
mvojordi: be nice and gentle to synaptic. it dosn't like to be hurt!11:04
mvojordi: why is mpt_london bashing synaptic?11:04
mvoand don't forgot to send me the translation errors :)11:04
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jordiThere's missing mnemonics in "Distribution", "Network"11:04
jordimvo: he's doing usability reviews :)11:05
jordihe went to ubuntu bugzilla to file a bug, but it was already there11:05
jordioh well. :)11:05
jordicolors also lacks mnemonics11:05
jordiand the checkboxes in fonts11:06
crimsunI have a Build-Depends question: if a package wants calls autoheader for some strange reason, should I add the relevant packages to debian/control:Build-Depends? I remember this is strongly frowned upon...11:06
jordihmm, actually in all the taabs some mnemonics are missing11:06
jordiWhy is there Apply, Ok and Cancel?11:06
jordimvo: I keep wondering if I should get svn access at some point.11:08
jordiIf you trust me, etc. :)11:08
mvojordi: there is a bug about missing mnemonics? what bug number? 11:08
jordimvo: no, that's my IRC bug. mpt_london was about synaptic complaining about something neeeding root, instead of prompting for the root passwd I think11:09
mpt_londonI don't think it's a synaptic bug in particular11:09
mpt_londonWhen I run synaptic directly, I get prompted for a password, which is good11:10
mvojordi, mpt_london: aha, ok11:10
mpt_londonBut when I select a package and try to "Open With..." synaptic, I get an error complaining that I'm not "root"11:10
mvojordi: feel free to file a bug or send a patch about the missing mnemonics. I simply overlooked that :/11:11
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mvompt_london: direct install of deb packages is not supported by apt and therefore not by synaptic unfortunately11:11
mpt_londonmvo: Well yes, but that's a separate bug <https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2706>11:12
mvo(and it's something I not encourage :)11:12
jordimvo: yup, I pointed him at gdeb for now11:12
jordibut it's not installable in ubuntu11:12
jordineeds recompile I guess11:12
mpt_londonOh, the hilarity11:12
mvompt_london: look at the debian bugnumer that is linked in the ubuntu bugreport and check the age ;)11:13
mpt_londonmvo: Let's package like it's 1999!11:14
mvompt_london: no, don't get me wrong. I just wanted to say that it's tricky to solve that problem, not that we shouldn't solve it11:15
jordimvo: hmm, I guess there's a reason for not us using the gnome-wide proxy sdettings, righgt?11:16
jordimostly because it's not your gconf settings that matter, but root's?11:16
mvojordi: exactly, the reason is that synaptic runs as root 11:16
mvoit would need a architecual redesign and a lot of testing to change that11:17
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pittidaniels: time for an USN review?11:17
jordijust having the option for setups with mandatory gconf keys wouldn't be too cool11:17
mvojordi: mandatory gconf keys?11:18
jordifor proxy settings11:18
jordiin /etc/gconf11:18
Kamionpitti: yes?11:18
Kamionlamont: still around?11:19
pittiKamion: I'd like to build current langpack updates right before the preview tomorrow, but this needs some coordination11:19
jordimvo: ok, I have a small update for some glaring Catalan errors in prefs11:19
pittiKamion: when would be a good time for it?11:19
pittiKamion: i. e. after all other uploads, but before building CD images11:19
mvojordi: so for that I just connect to gconf as root? that sounds like it's usefull11:20
jordimvo: try running gconf-editor as root11:20
jordiyou'll get the mandatory menu item activated11:20
jordiwhatever you set there, it will be immutable for all users.11:21
danielspitti: s/caches/the cache/11:21
Treenaksjordi: ooh.. multi-user huge-office type stuff :)11:21
mvojordi: very nice! is this a new feature?11:22
jordiyeah. You can play "I'm the bastard" games with that.11:22
pittidaniels: thanks11:22
Treenaksjordi: *clickety* *click*11:22
jordimvo: 2.8 iirc11:22
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jordilittle daniel!11:23
danielslittle hordi!11:23
jordidaniels: you should have come to harrods with me. It was fun.11:23
danielsjordi: haha11:23
danielsjordi: i read about it11:23
pittidaniels: still wrong keyboard with current live cd :-(11:23
mvojordi: I created #7314 about the gconf stuff11:23
danielspitti: bleh11:23
jordithere was more about it, but I wanted to sleep. Dude, everything is carpeted, and there's not a single carpet that isn't totally horrific11:24
jordimvo: lemme read11:24
jordimvo: oh11:24
jordiwell, the mandatory stuff in gconf has been there since the early days11:25
mvojordi: beef it up if you want :)11:25
jordigconf-editor gave it ui recently11:25
mvojordi: aha11:25
jordiwhat's my bugzilla passwd now..11:26
Treenaksjordi: "ken sent me"11:26
jordiactually, both pass and email were wrong11:27
Mithrandirmvo: pong11:29
danielsMithrandir: packages are on concordia whenever you're ready11:30
Mithrandirdaniels: cool, thanks.11:30
Mithrandirseems like I don11:30
Mithrandir't have an account on her, though11:30
Kamionpitti: TBH I really don't know what time everything else will be finished yet11:32
fabbionehey Kamion 11:32
pittiKamion: okay, so this will be coordinated on the fly? :-)11:32
Kamionpitti: there may well be last-minute uploads right up to the wire11:32
pittiKamion: as long as they don't change translations, I don't care11:32
Kamionpitti: that's the best I can do so far :) tomorrow lunchtime or so would probably work, I guess11:33
Kamionfabbione: morning11:33
pittiKamion: I'm more concerned about the new gnome stuff, where translations really make a difference11:33
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fabbioneKamion: i think i got the kernel-wedge check || true thingy solved and lamont agrees with the fix. I would like also your opinion on it11:33
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Kamionfabbione: ok11:34
fabbioneKamion: basically the root of the problem is dh_listfiles since it doesn't know how to list only udebs11:34
fabbionebut that's a more general problem since the special entry for debian/control has been introduced only recently (if i understood correctly Mith)11:34
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pittiHi seb128 11:35
fabbioneso something that works is to filter the file list the kernel-wedge check will check11:35
fabbioneKamion: this is the diff11:35
fabbioneand it does not break backward compatibility11:35
seb128hey pitti 11:36
fabbioneor normal debian builds11:36
fabbioneKamion: with the difference that i can export an env var in the ubuntu kernel build11:36
fabbioneto get only the list of udebs that kernel-wedge should check11:36
fabbionein our case the env var is set to "di"11:36
fabbionethat matches all the Packages with -di (our udebs)11:37
fabbioneit is the less introsive change i could think11:37
fabbionebut better options are welcome11:37
fabbione(none of this will be uploaded before preview)11:37
seb128pitti: g-v-m 1.2.0, you are going to package it or it's for me ? That's probably a translation update tarball11:37
pittiseb128: I can do it if you want11:38
pittiseb128: I might know the quirks of it better11:38
seb128yeah, please :)11:38
pittiseb128: I will coordinate with Kamion, I'll built last-minute langpack updates right before the preview tomorrow11:38
seb128pitti: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-volume-manager/1.2/gnome-volume-manager-1.2.0.tar.gz11:38
Kamionfabbione: mm, looks odd. externally supplied environment variables should be in ALL CAPS, I think.11:40
Kamionfabbione: kernel-wedge is responsible for adding the -di suffix itself; why not just hardcode that in check?11:41
KamionI think I'd find that neater11:41
fabbioneKamion: i did hardcoded it in the beginning and removed it later :-)11:43
fabbionebut if you think that hardcoding it is ok, it is fine with me11:43
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Kamionyeah, I think it's ok11:44
fabbionetesting now11:45
dholbachhi seb128 11:52
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haggaisabdfl: here12:15
thomfabbione: (aka the kernel team, but YKWIM); can you look at #7121? 12:16
pitticarlos: FYI, translation tarballs are flowing (I'm rebuilding the relevant main packages)12:17
carlospitti: cool, thanks12:17
zenwhenI am trying to instal k3b in hoary12:21
zenwheni get this error12:21
zenwhenE: /var/cache/apt/archives/kcontrol_40x1.ad1500000004ep-8893.3.2-1ubuntu7_i386.deb:  trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/kcmshell', which is also in package kdelibs-bin12:21
danielswhat *is* that version??12:22
zenwhenkcontrol cant be installed12:22
crimsunthat has to be the most screwed version I've ever seen12:22
zenwhenbecause it is trying to write something that is alrready in kdelibs12:22
Treenaksdaniels: format string bug?12:22
zenwhenits what was in the repo12:22
trukulozenrox, are you using external sources or only hoary sourceS?12:22
zenwhenI have nothing in my sources.list but hoary12:23
zenwhenI didnt even putanything in there12:23
zenwhenaynaptic did12:23
trukulozenwhen, try sudo aptitude clean12:23
trukuloand try again12:23
crimsunzenwhen: on my system, kcontrol 3.3.2-1ubuntu7 and kdelibs-bin 3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu1 coexist fine12:24
crimsunzenwhen: I use aptitude12:24
zenwhenI dont know whats going on then12:24
zenwhenmaybe this is a kcontrol that was just there last night12:25
haggaizenwhen: that isn't the kcontrol in hoary that your machine is trying to install12:25
zenwhenbut it *was* there last night12:25
zenwhenhow could it try to install anything else?12:25
haggaizenwhen: what is the output of 'apt-cache policy kcontrol | grep ubuntu'12:25
zenwhenIve never had non hoary sources on this machine12:25
zenwhen Candidate: 4:3.3.2-1ubuntu712:26
zenwhen     4:3.3.2-1ubuntu7 012:26
zenwhen        500 http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main Packages12:26
zenwhen     4:3.3.2-1ubuntu7 012:26
haggaizenwhen: your Packages lists are out of date (or your mirror is)12:26
trukulozenwhen: sudo aptitude update12:27
zenwheni hope this doesnt force me to upgrade all the kde stuff again12:32
zenwhenbecause i am on bad dialup and that k3b install took half the night12:32
zenwhenit was all done from the official hoary mirrors with no repo updating in between. I must have caught them in the middle of an upload.12:32
sabdflwill we be shipping evo 2.2?12:35
sabdflin hoary :-)12:35
KamionI hope we're shipping something with that "please don't even think about using this unless you're a hardcore developer" splash message turned off, at least12:38
danielsKamion: 'hardcaw'12:41
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jordiudev can be annoying when it wants12:56
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sivangg'afternoon all01:01
dholbachhai sivan!01:02
pittiHi sivang 01:02
sivangdholbach: hey :)01:02
sivangpitti: Hi Martin01:02
seb128<gjc> seb128: my hoary systems have a nasty habit of starting updatedb every time I boot, lately :|01:02
seb128<gjc> well, that's really bad, it shouldn't be there01:02
seb128<gjc> it makes the system very slow, without warning, imagine how a newbie would feel... "this ubuntu distribution is so slow"01:02
seb128is there a bug open somewhere about this ?01:03
fabbionei think it's called anacron 01:03
seb128thanks, but I know why01:03
sivangseb128: I don't think so, but it happens everyday in a certain hour , not when you boot01:03
seb128I just ask if we have a bug about the issue raised01:03
sivangseb128: Why does it happen ?01:03
seb128sivang: because of /etc/cron.daily/slocate and anacron01:04
mvomjg59: around?01:04
thomfabbione: ciao!01:04
sivangseb128: well, the database need be updated once in a while to make slocate efficient no?01:04
fabbionethom: what's up dude?01:04
seb128sivang: if you don't run updatedb the base is not updated01:04
seb128and locate is pretty useless01:04
thomfabbione: popcon joy :-) how was the honeymoon?01:04
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fabbionesivang: this is true, but the perception of slowlyness will stay01:05
fabbionethom: cool :-)01:05
Keybuk*shrug* locate and updatedb shouldn't be in base01:05
fabbionethom: i have a pic of me and galapagos' penguins i want you to put on galapagos at the dc :-)01:05
fabbionethom: as splash screen ;)01:05
sivangfabbione: hehe, publish online so we all could see :)01:06
fabbionesivang: i will soon.. i need to filter them first01:06
fabbionethere are plenty of bad shots01:06
fabbioneand so on...01:06
thomfabbione: well, if you can make it ascii art i can make a label...01:06
fabbionethom: i think we can manage ;)01:06
Kamionwhoa, locate *so* should be in base01:07
KamionI argued this at the time01:07
KamionUnices without locate are REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING01:07
thomKamion: agreed01:07
KeybukKamion: unices with out of date locate databases are worst :p01:07
KamionKeybuk: that's not ideal, but in the case of locate databases I'd take out-of-date over missing01:08
mjg59mvo: Hi01:08
fabbionehere is the future DPL ;)01:08
KeybukBranden's on here ?!01:10
dholbachcouldnt updatedb be nice'd or something?01:10
mvomjg59: I would like to ask you about your opinion on #5737 (nessus-plugins non-free). I wonder if it affects us01:10
ogradholbach: i was taught (in this channel) that nice doesnt speed up disk access01:10
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Kamionright, updatedb is not sucking CPU01:11
Kamionand it is niced01:11
Keybukoddly, with the 2.6 kernel, there's no reason you can't have some kind of "ionice" setting01:11
Kamion10 by default01:11
Keybukyou just don't01:11
mvomjg59: I want to write a mail to the nessus people and ask for clarification. it would be very kind if you could look over it (assuming that you are pretty familar with license issues)01:11
dredghow good is yelp at handling man pages? i just told it to dig one there (bash) and it's having a field day on my ram and cpu...01:15
mjg59mvo: Eurgh, what a mess.01:15
mjg59Yeah, contact upstream - but in that sort of situation, don't expect a straight answer01:15
mvomjg59: can I /msg you my current mail? 01:16
mjg59mvo: A link would be better01:16
Kamionseb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/scrollkeeper-errors known?01:17
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Kamiondredg: bash(1) is a reasonable groff test case; zshall(1) is better though :)01:17
KamionI bet yelp isn't as fast as groff01:17
thomyelp's man stuff isn't really production ready yet, AIUI01:18
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pittimvo: does update-manager somehow remember which CDs it already saw?01:19
pittimvo: I tried to upgrade from CD, but this failed due to some dependency breakage01:19
pittimvo: now I tried again (even with restarting my session and removing the cd-rom  from fstab), but the dialog does not come up again01:19
mvopitti: yes, if the cd was scanned already it will not prompt01:19
pittimvo: how can I remove this cache?01:20
mvopitti: remove it from /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list01:20
seb128Kamion: nop, I'll have a look, thanks01:21
Kamionseb128: thanks01:21
pittimvo: that helped, thanks01:21
mvoI wonder if it's a usefull feature. I'm unsure about it. OTOH I don't want to come up with this dialog everytime a user inserts his distro CD. OTOH when he inserts it, he usually will want to do something with it (i.e. install packages) :)01:21
Kamionit's ugly on installations :)01:21
mvowhat do the others think?01:21
pittimvo: I would ask everytime01:22
dredgKamion: yerrr... that was an interesting exercise in 'how fast does the OOM killer kick in?'01:22
Kamionwill people really insert their distro CD all that often?01:22
pittimvo: instead you should suppress the question if I insert a powerpc CD on i386 or a live CD01:22
Kamionalthough the DVD, maybe - but as you say that'll be to install packages from it01:22
pittiKamion: yes, if they want to install more pacakges or reattempt a failed upgrade01:22
Kamionpitti: yeah, I think that's much more likely with the DVD than with the CD01:23
pittimvo: I thought you already fixed that bug "synaptic still downloads from the net if upgrading from CD"?01:23
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mvopitti: ? if a version is available it will fetch it from the net01:24
ogramvo: put a "ask again ?" checkbox in the dialog01:24
pittimvo: I thought we wanted to force the CD-ROm version then?01:24
mvopitti: live-cd is a bug. power-pc on i386 is a good idea01:24
mvoogra: yes, that sounds reasonable01:24
mvopitti: even if the version on the net is newer?01:25
pittimvo: yes, that's what _I_ want now (not sure about the others)01:25
pittimvo: I download/get the CD to _avoid_ downloading from net01:26
Treenakspitti: how about security fixes then?01:26
pittimdz: hi01:26
pittiTreenaks: if I click on the update-manager icon, I want upgrades and newer versions from net01:26
pittiTreenaks: but not if I upgrade my system from a CD01:26
ogramorning mdz01:26
pittiI don't need the CD if 3/4 of the packages are downloaded from the net01:26
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Treenakspitti: it's criminal to NOT do security upgrades when you're connected to the net, imho01:27
pittiTreenaks: okay, then security updates from the net, and packages from CD01:27
pittiTreenaks: however, I don't even want security updates when I'm on dialup01:28
pittiTreenaks: not if I insert a CD; I can upgrade them manually with the icon01:28
Treenaksso you're trying to make an artificial distinction between "normal" upgrades and "security" upgrades01:30
mvopitti: it's not that easy. file a whishlist bug against synaptic please01:30
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pittiTreenaks: no, I make a distinction between "I want security updates" and "I want to upgrade my system from CD"01:30
pittimvo: hmm, I think the particular strategy should be discussed with more people01:31
Treenakspitti: send a RFC to -devel?01:31
pittiTreenaks: modem people will beat us up if we tell them that they are supposed to download 200M of debs _although_ they have a recent CD01:31
pittiTreenaks: yes, good idea01:31
pittiTreenaks: after preview :-)01:31
=== pitti adds to todo
Treenakspitti: :)01:32
mvopitti: there are some more problems involved here. synaptic needs to know from where the packages are actually fetched. this is a information that may not yet available (or expensive to get). there may be more than one source for a given version01:32
mvopitti: file a bug, I will look into it and see how it could be done 01:32
pittimvo: okay, post-preview :-)01:32
pittimvo: can't you temporarily ignore non-CD-ROM sources?01:33
pittimvo: that's what I did now, I commented out the http:// sources from sources.list01:33
mvopitti: not easily at least01:35
pittimvo: apt-get -c /tmp/cdrom-only-apt.conf ?01:36
pittimvo: oh, even better01:36
pittimvo: apt-get -o Dir::Etc::SourceList=/tmp/cdrom-only-sources.list01:36
mvopitti: sure, the problem can be solved with brute-force. I consider this a very hackish solution01:37
pittiit is.. :-)01:37
pittianyway, let's discuss that later01:37
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mvopitti: ok01:38
Kamionmdz: I've fixed the issue where a whole CD image build fell over if something went wrong on one architecture01:44
mdzKamion: thnks01:44
Kamionmdz: so in general you probably never want to do stuff like ARCHES='amd64 i386 powerpc' cron.daily-live any more - just let it fail on ia6401:45
Kamionif it goes wrong, let me know :)01:45
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Kamionmdz: also, live filesystem manifests should now be published as hoary-live-$arch.manifest02:06
Kamionrunning a test now02:06
mdzwhoa, my panel just crashed randomly02:06
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ograBurgundavia: failed :-P02:09
Kamionmdz: any idea what time we should expect to be able to freeze the world for preview?02:09
Kamion(tomorrow sometime, I assume)02:09
mdzKamion: GNOME 2.10 is the only remaining factor02:10
mdzso whenever they finish releasing tarballs, and seb128 finishes uploading them02:10
mdzjdub: ?02:10
Mithrandirelmo: any comments on http://sources.redhat.com/ml/binutils/2004-09/msg00299.html ?  It would be a nice thing to pull in, I think.02:10
Kamionok. I probably need to upload debian-installer at some point; a non-daily build of that would be good02:10
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Burgundaviaogra: damn02:11
rightclickerneed some assistance, using an Acer Travelmate 230 Laptop - Ubuntu - Im getting X Server error - i can view some details on the output, im a Newbie.02:11
thomrightclicker: support questions in #ubuntu, please02:13
mdzKamion: would it be straightforward to generate a list of uninstallable packages in universe (deps unresolvable in main+universe, but only output packages which are in universe)?02:13
Kamionmdz: hm, dunno, I'd have to try it02:13
ograKamion: that would be absolutely great :)02:14
KamionI expect it would be easier to generate a list of uninstallable packages everywhere, and there aren't that many in main02:15
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ograKamion: that would be sufficient too i think, we can remove the main packages ourselves....02:16
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Kamionhttp://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/hoary-live-i386.manifest # hooray02:19
thomhttp://popcon.ubuntu.com/ lala02:20
dokomdz, jdub: fabbione is ok with the proposed avm-fritz-firmware package, I'd like upload that package before the prerelease and include it in the ship so that the avm drivers are actually working02:20
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thomit, uh, needs branding and some fixing02:20
Mithrandirthom: a tiny bit, yes02:21
thombut there are at least 175 people submitting02:22
tsengwould be useful to see what tops universe02:22
MithrandirI should get popcon installed on my amd64 boxes, then02:22
Burgundaviais the popcon package for hoary pointed there?02:22
tsengmost of main is pretty obvious as it comes ootb02:22
thomBurgundavia: yes02:23
thomtseng: nod02:23
mdzour popcon results are much flatter than Debian's02:23
Burgundaviaso I am one of just 175 people who are reporting?02:23
mdzBurgundavia: yes, once thom has everything in good shape, he'll make an announcement to remind people of popcon's existence and tell them how to participate02:24
mdz(it doesn't submit anything by default)02:24
tsenganyone have a particular cd they want tested?02:24
Burgundaviaright, I remember the question in the nstaller02:24
tsengdoing an install.02:24
=== thom sighs at perl scripts with stacks of html in their code
Burgundaviamdz: regarding derooting, popcon mentions that it be derooted in the FAQ02:26
Mithrandirthom: how can I check that my boxes have actually sent in something?02:26
thomMithrandir: what is in your /etc/popularity-contest.conf? if you tell me your host-id i can check02:28
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Mithrandirthom: people are going to ask the question, I can imagine.  "c9aabcce3ca24b9cb59f57dddd048195" and "1e08140075aed3bc01ed90ca5d634c59"02:29
thomyes, they're both submitting02:30
thomif PARTICIPATE=yes there's no reason for it not to work02:31
Mithrandirso I'm 20% of the amd64 population. :)02:31
thomMithrandir: looks that way02:32
=== ogra increases the amd64 crowd
Mithrandirogra: go go go! :)02:32
ograthom: just running popularity-contest is enough ? or do i have to call popcon-upload separately ?02:33
Mithrandirogra: just install popuplarity-contest and it should submit02:33
mdzogra: it runs weekly02:34
ograMithrandir: its installed since i got this machine, but PARTICIPATE was set to no02:34
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Mithrandirhi chuck02:35
zulhey Mithrandir02:35
lamontthom: should I enable popcon on my hppa box?02:36
thomogra: if you want to hurry the process just sudo /etc/cron.weekly/popularity-contest02:36
thomlamont: meh.02:36
lamontii  popularity-con 1.26ubuntu3    Vote for your favourite packages automatical02:36
lamontLinux gw 2.6.11-rc4-pa1 #7 Wed Feb 16 16:58:22 MST 2005 parisc GNU/Linux02:36
maswanShould I hurry and try to migrate a cluster or two? :)02:36
=== thom &|
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KamionMithrandir: popularity-contest is in base02:42
MithrandirKamion: ok, but it's not enabled by default.02:42
pittiogra: hehe - http://www.heise.de/security/news/foren/go.shtml?read=1&msg_id=7568932&forum_id=7506302:42
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Kamionsomebody should apply Ubuntu branding to 'dpkg-reconfigure popularity-contest'02:42
ograpitti: yeah, youre our marketing department, i always knew it ;)02:43
sivangpitti, what does it say?02:44
sivangpitti: I mean, the article that you pasted the link to :)02:44
ograsivang: that ubuntu is fastest in security fixes and that its impressing for such a young distro02:45
sivangogra: oh, very nice.02:45
pittisivang: "Again Ubuntu belongs to the first ones which provide corrected packages after publication of a security hole. A good start for a distribution which is known for only half a year."02:45
sivangpitti: they should say who is the guy who is responsible for that ;-)02:45
pittisivang: ah, don't worry02:46
pittisivang: this was an user comment02:46
pittisivang: not an article of the newsticker02:46
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pittisivang: besides, the article mentions "Ubuntu", that's the important part :-)02:46
ograsivang: heise refused to report about ubuntu from the beginning, there were lots of people pointing to the warty release announcement and they didnt react until today....02:46
Burgundaviaif you look at lwn security round up each week, Ubuntu is almost always the first distro to patch02:46
sivangpitti: true :)02:47
ograsivang: in fact there is one article where "this new southafrican distribution called ubuntu" is mentioned...in the whole archive02:47
ograand thats all....02:47
pittithere was a short article in the magazine, though02:47
ograquite poor for the leading german IT news site02:47
pittiogra: trust me, I will send them the Hoary announcement again :-)02:47
BurgundaviaI think it is funny that distrowatch lists ubuntu as coming from the isle of man rather than sa. Yes, I know canonical is based there02:48
pittiogra: (all other German guys should, too :-) )02:48
ograpitti: i will poke them too02:48
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ograBurgundavia: regarding the uploads of the last days it might be based in france ;)02:49
ograit always depends on the citeria you use for measuring *g*02:49
Burgundaviatracking the country is kind of meaningless with linux devel work02:50
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ograyup....as tracking the adress of a LTD is :)02:51
Burgundaviawhile we are on security, can I ask why don't have firefox 1.0.1?02:52
pittiBurgundavia: we will have02:52
pittiBurgundavia: just not for the preview02:52
pittiBurgundavia: since the risk of destabilizing the preview is too big02:52
Mithrandirmaswan: what would "the Ubuntu developers" be in Swedish?  Are you allowed to say "Ubuntuutvecklarna" or do you say "Ubuntu-utvecklarna"?02:53
Burgundaviahowever, the new version came out Feb 24, the same day as the preview freeze02:54
maswan"Ubuntu-utvecklarna", since "Ubuntu" is a name, not a common word02:54
=== Kamion spies somebody doing branding
maswanor a foreign word for that matter02:55
Mithrandirmaswan: for debian, it's Debianutvecklarna, though.02:55
MithrandirKamion: correct.02:55
maswanMithrandir: Hmm.. True.02:55
=== maswan looks around for "Svenska skrivregler"
Mithrandirbut a double U wouldn't be correct in Norwegian at least, and the languages are quite similar02:55
maswanhmm.. probably have that at home only, go for "Ubuntu-utvecklarna"02:56
maswanI'll try and remember to check this evening when I get home02:56
Mithrandirbut Ubuntupaket is ok?02:56
maswanI think so, yes.02:56
maswanIt looks ok. :)02:57
MithrandirKamion: Ubuntu is just Ubuntu, even in Czech, right?02:57
Mithrandirwe should have a "localizing Debian packages with sed" wiki page02:57
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lamontMithrandir: it gets transliterated into say, japanese, but otherwise, I expect so02:58
KamionMithrandir: I don't have an answer for Czech02:58
Mithrandirlamont: Debian is Debianu in some cases for Czech.02:58
KamionMithrandir: everything I know on this subject is in http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DistributionDefaultsAndBranding02:58
KamionMithrandir: I just leave everything else fuzzy02:58
MithrandirKamion: ok02:59
Kamionthere are some languages where the form isn't just "Ubuntu" regardless of case, such as Finnish02:59
dokoPriority: source ???02:59
Kamiondoko: I noticed that, seems to be a bug in the override file02:59
MithrandirKamion: well, they can file bugs. :)02:59
KamionMithrandir: right :)02:59
dokokamion, ok, thanks03:00
Mithrandirit's not like I know Ukrainian or Russian either, but they're simple to ubuntifiscate.03:00
koked3vic3: are you working on the omniorb4 package?03:01
TreenaksMithrandir: how about verbs around it? they might change because of the starting/ending sounds of words03:01
Treenaksor other "modifications"03:02
KamionTreenaks: so far nobody's told me of any examples of that03:02
KamionTreenaks: apart from English: "a Debian ..." -> "an Ubuntu ..."03:02
Kamionit's certainly possible though03:02
TreenaksKamion: yeah, but most of you know English :)03:02
KamionTreenaks: since I do the installer branding, I get most of the reports about this.03:03
MithrandirTreenaks: yes, they can.  If so, we have a wiki page and a bugzilla.03:03
Kamionoh, there's "d'Ubuntu" in some languages too03:03
Kamionbut not universal, I think some are still "de Ubuntu"03:03
d3vic3koke, I haven't started on it yet 03:05
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Burgundaviabranding issue: python package mentions debian03:07
=== infinity is shocked that today is the very first day he's had private mail from an Ubuntu user about packages with his name on them somewhere.
infinityNot sure if this means Ubuntu users are more polite/sane than Debian users, or if they just don't like to mail people.03:08
koked3vic3: I'm packaging synopsis and depends on it03:08
koked3vic3: maybe I'll try to package omniorb first03:08
d3vic3koke, ok 03:08
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sivanghmm nice, either openoffice2 takes LOADS of memory, or my gnome uprgades are just slowing down my machines :)03:19
Treenakssivang: both03:19
sivangTreenaks: you also see the slowdown with the latest gnome updateS?03:23
Treenakssivang: try switching to a simpler theme03:24
TreenaksI hope it's not a build-flag thing03:24
sivangTreenaks: bah, right. what do you consider a simple theme? :)03:25
Treenakssivang: well, try "simple" :P03:26
Treenaksor default03:26
Treenakseven industrial is not as heavy as clearlooks03:26
mdzKamion: haha, I completely got my bugs crossed in #96603:28
mdzI was reading email about the kernel package install bug, and writing about the mdadm.conf bug03:28
Kamionyeah, I thought so :)03:30
mdzseb128: do you know when we will have a full set of 2.10 packages in Hoary, so that we can start testing for preview?03:32
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seb128mdz: within 1 hour03:34
mdzseb128: fabulous03:34
seb128mdz: where is the hoary page in yelp ?03:34
mdzseb128: under "other documentation" right now03:35
seb128or on the hdd03:35
=== ogra joins haggai in lease contract termination :(
fabbionethom: ping?03:35
seb128mdz: thanks03:35
thomfabbione: just walking out the door, sorry03:35
seb128mdz: I'll do a panel upload to fix that03:35
mdzseb128: we will be changing the yelp category stuff, but probably not the location on disk03:35
fabbionethom: ok03:36
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ogramdz: so when will we freeze then ? ( i just got struck by some real world problems (landlord terminated my contract for the house))03:38
mdzogra: ouch!03:38
mdzogra: we are already frozen :-)03:38
ograi thought today or tomorrow was the date03:39
mdzmako: around?03:39
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makomdz: yeah03:40
mdzmako: I had this fantastic idea03:41
mdzmako: that for preview, we prepare the release announcement _ahead of time_03:41
pittimdz: erm?03:41
pittimdz: vaporware?03:41
mdzpitti: hmm?03:42
pittimdz: ah, sorry, I misread03:42
ogramdz: isnt that done anyway03:42
mdzogra: tomorrow is the preview release03:42
mdzogra: preview freeze began 6 days ago03:42
mdzogra: see my release updates on ubuntu-devel03:42
ograah, ok, i muddled these two03:43
makomdz: sounds great03:43
mdzmako: do you think you can fit that in sometime today?03:43
makomdz: want to select the highlights from the release notes?03:43
mdzmako: yeah03:43
mdzmako: also, we're hoping to release a Kubuntu preview at the same time03:43
makoi need to make sure shipit is ready to take new orders but i think that's working03:44
makoanyone want to help me test a new shipit?03:44
mdzmako: however, we probably want to paint it in a different light, since Kubuntu is only just coming together, while Ubuntu has been stabilizing for some time03:44
Treenaksmako: cool03:44
mdzmako: is that enough to go on, or should I send some bullet points?03:44
Treenaksmako: I probably could help you03:44
makoTreenaks: devel.yukidoke.org/shipit/user.cgi03:45
Treenaksmako: old logins don't work?03:45
makomdz: i will go through the release notes and pick out highlights i like. if there's stuff you think is essential03:45
makoTreenaks: they should.. but also try to create a new one.. abuse it a bit03:45
makoTreenaks: i did a lot of work on it in the last week03:45
Treenaksmako: where do I report bugs? :)03:46
makoTreenaks: /query mako03:46
dilingermako: hi03:47
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mdzseb128: gv wants to move to universe now; did gnome-gv depend on it before or something?03:50
seb128mdz: I've not changed the Depends, that's weird03:51
mdzit has never been seeded, so something depended on it03:52
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mdzit was in universe in warty03:53
mdzlamont: kdegraphics needs a dep-wait on imlib+png2_1.9.14-16.2ubuntu103:55
mdzKamion: amd64 install from today's daily is gold03:56
=== fabbione larts pitti with a huge stick
fabbioneok you can quote me on this:03:56
pittifabbione: hey, don't shoot the messenger :-)03:56
mdzI need more sleep. back in a few hours03:57
fabbione"if CAN was a dildo, i would be goatse now"03:57
fabbionemdz: sleep tight (rememebr the cc meeting in one hour)03:57
pittigoatse -> no dictionary entry :-(03:57
pittimdz: good night :-)03:57
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makopitti: do you know ProSieben?04:00
dholbachmako: i know it... what about them?04:00
pittimako: sure04:00
pittimako: I don't have a TV, though04:01
makodholbach, pitti: what is? they want to make a show about my website04:01
dholbachwow :-)04:01
pittimako: that's a famous German TV station04:01
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makoare they cool?04:01
pittimako: dunno, during the last five years I watched TV only for a few hours (in total)04:02
dholbachthey're a private station, so they send a lot of crap (in my opinion), but they're huge04:02
makopitti: i don't have a tv either. especially not one that receives german stations04:02
=== dholbach doesnt have one either
=== pitti thinks TV is mostly crap :-)
dholbachbut i'd surely find someone who records it for me04:03
lamontchecking for png_read_info in -lpng... no04:03
lamontconfigure: error: *** PNG library not found ***04:03
lamontmdz: better make that imlib+png2 >>1.9.14-16.2ubuntu104:03
dholbachmako: while you're talking to them, tell them they could make a show on ubuntu :-)04:09
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makodholbach: i will!04:12
dholbachmako: you rock! :-)04:12
dredgspecifically, a puppet show04:14
Treenaksfor some reason, I keep thinking "at-spi" is some SPI version of the 'at' program..04:16
=== pitti too
lamontseb128: are we nearly there yet? (how many more packages you got, anyway???)04:17
dholbachlamont: millions04:18
ograhopefully not04:18
dholbachlamont: i'm subscribed to the gnome-release rss feed04:18
seb128lamont: I've uploaded all the tarball excepted gnome-cups-manager and libgnomecups which have a regression according to pitti and so not for the preview and gdm04:18
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lamontseb128: woot.04:18
seb128lamont: we can go without the new gdm if you want04:18
seb128how are the builds going ?04:19
lamontslogging along04:19
dredgdholbach: rss feed url?04:19
lamontthere was one failure because the build-deps were wrong (well, old), but I just depwaited it04:19
lamontlibgnomecups1.0 was the dep-wait, now 0.2.0, build-dep only dragged in 0.1.404:20
seb128what failure ?04:20
dholbachdredg: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/LATEST.xml04:20
seb128lamont: what package is that ?04:21
dredgdholbach: cheers04:21
lamonthad to go find it.04:21
lamontthe failure log should be on p.u.c - if not holler, because that means I "found" the wrong package...04:22
lamontseb128: it's dealt with04:23
seb128lamont: no04:23
lamontalthough it would be good to fix the package...04:23
seb128<seb128> lamont: I've uploaded all the tarball excepted gnome-cups-manager and libgnomecups which have a regression according to pitti04:23
lamontpkgconfig barfs04:23
seb128I've not uploaded the new libgnomecups04:23
lamontoh. DOH!04:23
seb128pitti: ?04:23
=== pitti listens
pittiseb128: do we really need the new libgnomecups?04:24
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seb128pitti: new libgnomeprint/printui depends on the libgnomecups you don't want to get uploaded04:24
wasabi_hmm, after the last hoary update (yesterday) i have an xorg that is spinning CPU uselessly04:24
seb128pitti: is that a big regression for a preview ?04:24
pittiseb128, lamont: well, it's not the worst bug in the world, but I wanted to avoid having it in the preview04:24
pittiseb128, lamont: but if it blocks anything, go ahead and upload it04:24
lamontpitti: is fixable?04:25
lamontpitti: it blocks04:25
pittiseb128: however, we should fix it after preview04:25
seb128that's probably easy to fix04:25
pittilamont: I hope it is fixable, but not until tomorrow, I'm afraid04:25
seb128the diff between previous version and this one is like 200 lines04:25
=== lamont bbiab
pittiseb128: okay, then upload it04:25
pittiseb128: I will take a look at it ASAP04:25
pittiseb128: can you please put the source package somewhere04:26
wasabi_hmmm. spinning update-notifier04:26
wasabi_spinning notification area04:26
ograseb128: this totem downloads DLLs changelog entry is just weird.... did hadess say anything about that ?04:26
pittiseb128: nevermind, I can also download it after you uploaded it04:26
seb128pitti: k04:27
seb128ogra: what changelog entry ?04:27
seb128ogra: a guy already mailed ubuntu-user about a such stuff this morning04:27
ogra* Automatic download of the Windows DLL plugins04:27
ograapt-cache show totem04:28
ogravery strange04:28
seb128that's not new04:28
seb128the description has not changed for months04:28
=== ogra hopes that entry isnt true
seb128what entry ?04:29
seb128be clear04:29
wasabi_    * Automatic download of the Windows DLL plugins04:29
ograthe one i just posted04:29
wasabi_wow! what a feature!04:29
seb128wasabi_: thanks but that's not a changelog, that's a package description04:30
=== seb128 doesn't understand what is the issue
ograseb128: simple....its wrong 04:30
seb128if you put w32codecs totem uses them04:30
seb128that's all04:30
seb128and that's not new04:30
ograseb128: but it doesnt download them automatically04:30
seb128bad english perhaps04:31
seb128it loads them from the disc04:31
=== seb128 hates such dumb discussion
seb128if you want to make a mess now about an english sentence beeing in the description for month be clear04:31
=== ogra dives back into his programmers cave to let seb do his work.....
ograseb128, sorry...04:32
seb128but that's really an useful discussion04:32
wasabi_hmm, would it be possible to make the install cd grub boot screen continue after a minute or such?04:35
wasabi_why doesn't it?04:35
wasabi_I had this crazy idea that I want to install on this pc using a serial console, but can't get past the boot. ;)04:36
wasabi_hmm i wonder if there is someway to make grub touch the serial console...04:36
Kamionit wouldn't help you if you can't type 'linux console=ttyS0' or whatever at it04:36
Kamionand that isn't grub, it's isolinux04:37
wasabi_is it? same diff.04:37
wasabi_hmmm. wonder if the kernel could multiplex to both ttyS0 and the screen. ;)04:37
pittiwasabi_: this works fine with lilo04:37
pittiwasabi_: (multiplexing)04:38
wasabi_the install cd doesn't use lilo. =/04:38
pittiyes, I know04:38
wasabi_as i just discovered!04:38
pittiwasabi_: but you asked for the kernel :-)04:38
wasabi_I dunno what I'm asking for. All I know is I have this box here, and the only available monitor is halfway across the office and it's a 19" crt and it's heavy. =)04:39
wasabi_and I want to put ubuntu on it!04:39
torkelshould work fine with grub too (not tried it with Ubuntu yet though)04:39
pittiwasabi_: automatic boot after a certain timeout would certainly help :-)04:39
Kamionif you do autoboot and the timeout is too short, people file bugs saying that they were in the middle of reading the help messages and suddenly it autobooted04:41
Kamionif you do autoboot and the timeout is too long, people file bugs saying they grew old and died waiting for it, or simply don't realise that autoboot will happen at all04:42
Kamionso we don't do autoboot :P04:42
wasabi_what about isolinux using tty0 like lilo supposadly does?04:42
wasabi_does it support it or would it have to be added?04:42
makocan anyone else help me out with testing shipit?04:45
pittimako: I can, what do I have to do?04:46
Mithrandirorder a shipload of CDs, most likely?04:46
pittiMithrandir: I already tried to provoke SQL injections for an hour :-)04:46
tsengi can order cds if thats it mako 04:46
pittimako: shall I just order some CDs?04:47
makopitti: just go to http://devel.yukidoke.org/shipit/user.cgi04:47
makopitti: create an account, log in, etc04:47
fabbioneat what time does the daily iso/live build run?04:47
makopitti: it's a scratch db04:47
makopitti: just go nuts04:47
makotseng: you too04:47
tsengwill do04:47
fabbionehey mako04:47
pittimako: oh, can I actually try SQL statements that will kill the db?04:48
makotseng: there is some room for improvement but i'm thinking it's stable enough to use for the tomorrow04:48
makopitti: that bug is fixed :)04:48
wasabi_heh. i can't believe i gave away the 50 warty cds I had04:48
pittimako: last time I tried to do something observable which does not actually damage anything04:48
wasabi_i didn't even know I knew 50 people04:48
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makopitti: either should be fine here.. this is not the live db04:48
makopitti: and the code is a lot more robust now04:49
makopitti: i spent much of last week introducing new bugs.. i mean improving it04:49
=== Amaranth has a big install fest coming up and no more ubuntu CDs :/
makoAmaranth: i am very low on cds04:49
makoAmaranth: (that means tens of thousands)04:49
AmaranthI wouldn't want to give them warty now anyway.04:50
=== mako nods
AmaranthI'll probably go buy 100 spindle of CD-Rs and bore myself to death burning and testing them.04:50
pittimako: one small bug so far: if I do anything wrong (invalid number or so), my country setting is forgotten04:56
Kamionwasabi_: no idea, I don't actually own any serial console hardware ...04:57
makopitti: yeah. i noticed that too.04:57
Kamionfabbione: 04:57
Kamion21 8 * * *      /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/cron.daily04:57
Kamion1 8 * * *       /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/cron.daily-live04:57
Kamion17 12 * * 6     /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/cron.weekly-dvd04:57
Kamion14 5 * * *      /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/cron.kubuntu-daily04:57
Kamion1 6 * * *       /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/cron.kubuntu-daily-live04:57
Kamionfabbione: (colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/cdimage--mainline--0, etc/crontab)04:58
Kamioner, s/2005/2004/04:58
lamontKamion: speaking of cdimage...04:58
=== lamont will pester Kamion post-preview
fabbioneKamion: thanks :-)04:59
=== Kamion argues with somebody mailing owner@bugs.debian.org about how he doesn't understand shell pathname expansion (I paraphrase). sigh.
Kamion"no, tr [A-Z]  [a-z]  is Just Wrong"04:59
Kamionlamont: hopefully post-preview I'll have the time to try following the procedure myself :-)05:00
lamontKamion: heh.  yeah05:00
lamontwow. 47 deg F -> 37 deg F in 15 minutes05:01
makoCommunity Council Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting05:02
makoAnd Community Council Meeting Time is... PARTY TIME05:02
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mdzlamont: wtf, re: imlib+png205:12
mdzlamont: it built for me locally05:12
mdzlamont: can I get config.log?05:13
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lamontmdz: I think so... second05:13
mdzlamont: which package was that log snippet from?05:14
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lamontmdz: snippet was from imlib05:15
mdzlamont: imlib+png2?05:15
lamontconfig.log is at p.u.c/~lamont/logs/imlib+png2.config.log05:15
mdzbut it succeeded05:15
lamont      467 Log for failed build of imlib+png2_1.9.14-16.2ubuntu1 (dist=hoary)05:16
lamontbut that's newer05:16
lamontand is the version you uploaded...05:16
mdzoh, the dirindex isn't sorted in version order in this case05:16
lamontdirindex is, sadly, alphasort05:17
mdzI see, I had libpng12-dev installed05:18
mvomdz: can I talk to you about #5737 (nessus-plugins) when you have time?05:19
mdzlamont: do you know if -I/usr/include/libpng10 or s/png/png10/ is the correct fix?05:20
lamontmdz: dunno off the top of my pointy05:22
lamont-I/usr/include/libpng10 will get you the files05:23
lamontif it was a question of /usr/include/libpng vs /usr/include/libpng10, that is....05:24
mdzyeah, it works either way05:24
mdzit was a question of changing the include path or the include preprocessor statements05:24
mdzI went with the former05:24
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lamontah, ok.05:31
seb128archive.u.c is lagging ?05:31
lamontseb128: on days like this, I kinda expect it.05:31
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lamontseb128: "like this" == lots of packages to mirror, and everybody and their grandmother downloading05:43
mdzlamont: fixed imlib built05:54
lamontmdz: then whatever we depwaited on it should build right after :0305:55
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Kamionmdz: can you grab a weekly DVD or two and give that a test? or shall I generate a fresh set first?06:04
mdzKamion: fresh set would be good06:04
mdzKamion: we need to write up an install test plan06:04
mdz{server,desktop} via {CD,DVD}, try to get some code coverage06:05
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dholbachsee you later06:05
Kamionfresh set kicked06:06
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Kamionmdz: yeah, acknowledged06:06
mdzI'll start rsyncing the old ones06:06
mdzLength: -1,549,498,368 [application/octet-stream] 06:07
mdz    [ <=>                                 ]  0             --.--K/s06:07
mdz09:11:01 (0.00 B/s) - `hoary-install-amd64.iso' saved [0/-1549498368] )06:07
mdzeither wget or apache is b0rked on large files06:07
KamionI thought apache got fixed06:08
fabbionei had say apache 06:08
Mithrandiryeah, a2 is b0rken06:08
mdzlooks like apache06:08
Mithrandiryou need 2.206:08
mdzMithrandir: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/weekly-dvd/current/06:08
Kamion$ HEAD http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/weekly-dvd/current/hoary-install-amd64.iso06:08
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Kamion200 OK06:08
KamionContent-Length: 274546892806:08
Kamion[...] 06:08
=== Kamion blames wget
fabbionemdz: afaik thom installed 2.2 on people only for testing06:08
Kamionfabbione: nope, he installed it on cdimage too06:08
mdzKamion: firefox broke too06:09
mdzI'm using rsync now06:09
Kamiongo LFS, it's your birthday06:09
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Kamionmdz: try downloading stuff on an amd64 box instead to avoid the problem? :-)06:09
mdz20th birthday maybe06:09
mdznah, I'll just tie up an rsync slot for an hour, thanks :-P06:09
makoso, is elmo going to reappear today?06:10
mdzmako: I understand he's at the data centre06:10
makoi rather badly need a new version of shipit installed today06:10
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makoso i can reset the database for hoary orders tonight before we announce the preview tomorrow06:10
makothink i should sms him?06:11
mdzmako: he should be textable for urgent stuff06:11
makoto put it on his radar?06:11
makoit's "Today" urgent.. not "right now" urgent06:11
mdzhmm, I should be rsyncing this DVD onto a CD iso06:11
mdzKamion: so I guess we're going to delay the release of the combo DVD06:12
Kamionfor what?06:12
lamontmako: so shipit is still warty orders?06:12
mdzKamion: because we haven't even tried it yet? :-)06:12
Kamionthe one you're rsyncing is a combo06:12
Kamionminor details :-)06:13
makolamont: like for hours06:13
mdzoh, that's why it's so huge06:13
mdzI didn't realize you'd done that06:13
makolamont: but no.. we're out of cds06:13
KamionI'm happy not to release it this time round, but we do need to get wider testing of it if it's for hoary final06:13
mdzso I should rsync it into a concatenation of install+live :-)06:13
lamontmako: heh06:13
makolamont: i have a special reserve :)06:13
Kamionyeah, I thought I'd mentioned it06:13
Kamionmdz: yes :-)06:13
mdzI don't think DVD is critical for preview06:13
Kamionthat should work rather well actually06:13
=== lamont was gonna order hoary disks, but I guess not today
makolamont: tomorrow.. or late today06:13
=== lamont still has about 20 warty CD's
mdzI'm completely out06:14
makoi'm nearly completely out06:15
lamontare we admitting to how many we pressed/shipped?06:15
tsengi think we gave away most of 200 at the security conference here06:15
mdzmako: you have Ubuntu CDs between the cushions of your couch06:15
mdzyou will be finding them for years to come06:16
lamontmako: is shipit email-addr == user id, or can you change your email addr?06:16
mdzyour apartment is saturated06:16
makomdz: yeah.. i have a lot of them everwhere06:16
mdzsabdfl: do you care if we release DVD images for preview, rather than only for final?06:16
makolamont: you can change email address06:16
makolamont: there is a uniq number i don't let you change06:16
mdzsabdfl: it takes a lot of time to download and test them06:16
wasabi__yay for my first ubuntu server06:17
lamontmako: yeah - but that involves remembering my password... :-(06:17
=== lamont finds the magic link
makolamont: you can have your passwords regenerated and mailed06:18
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mdzmvo: nessus-plugins?06:21
mvomdz: yes, I contacted upstream about the non-frees of the plugins and he claims that we can't distribute them. only the "nessus-plugins-gpl-2.2.3" is distriubtable according to him. I would suggest to sync nessus-plugins from debian/unstable, they removed all the non-free bits already. details are in #5737 and I can forward you the answer from Renaud (if you are interessted)06:24
mdzmvo: will the plugins from unstable work with our nessus?06:25
ajwhat's jdub's actual role/title in ubuntu?06:25
MithrandirRM, iirc06:26
mdzaj: "release manager" at last count, but we're fairly fluid about this sort of thing at the moment06:26
mvomdz: apparently, I updated the package and tested it. I also looked over the changed and it looks like nothing changed that could break the scripts from 2.2.0 to 2.2.3. I can double check tonight again. 06:26
Mithrandirand "dog dragging shiny stuff back home, stuffing it into the distribution, breaking it", I think.06:26
=== Mithrandir hides
mdzmvo: ok, let's plan to sync it after preview06:27
pittilamont: did you get my mail regarding blacklisting kde-i18n-*?06:28
mvomdz: sounds good, thanks. I'll double check again tonight/tomorrow morning if it does not break anything06:28
lamontpitti: and replied06:28
pittilamont: in case you didn't do it yet, there is another package that needs blacklisting: iso-codes06:28
pittilamont: oh, reading mail now06:28
=== lamont goes to edit another 12 files.
pittilamont: sorry06:28
Kamionaj: I'm sure he also used to be desktop team leader, except according to the web site that seems to be one "Gill Bates" now06:29
Kamiongod, how do I look at the history of a page in plone?06:30
mdzKamion: cry06:33
Mithrandiryou could probably run less on the zodb.06:33
KamionGO ZOPE06:35
=== T-None is now known as T-Bone
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tsengjdub: oh hey, in the never ending quest to get rml to bear your seed06:53
tsengjdub: do you think he would be interested in making gamin <3 inotify?06:54
sabdflerm... moin isn't exactly going to keep that Gill bitch at bay, you know06:55
tsengelmo: any chance you could sync f-spot 0.0.10 from sid? tia06:57
sabdflmdz: w.r.t. dvd images, as long as they get some testing before final, i don't mind06:57
sabdflthe dvd images will be the ones people can choose to cover the costs of shipping and production on, so it would be awkward if they had poorer QA06:57
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T-Bonehi sabdfl!06:58
mdzsabdfl: very few of us have the bandwidth to iteratively test them06:58
=== T-Bone has and can help as best as he can
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T-BoneMithrandir, doko: anything new wrt lib32gcc1? :)07:01
=== dredg loves his elected representatives
=== dredg kills McCreevy in the face
Kamionmdz: new DVD images up07:02
mdzKamion: old one still rsyncing07:02
mdz  1719225600  62%   15.65kB/s   18:12:5907:02
sabdflmdz: let's do a DVD in two weeks when the packages themselves are really stable07:03
mdzno DVD release for preview07:04
sabdflor just announce what's there now, and make changes without rebuilding the DVD, and just test one DVD per week07:04
sabdflyour call07:04
mdzI don't think DVD is important for preview07:04
mdzand it certainly won't help the bandwidth problem07:04
=== mvo is away for ~2h
fabbioneif we build the dvd daily the rsync would be way faster07:05
fabbioneon a weekly base the changes are too big and rsync is useless07:05
fabbione(or almost)07:05
T-Boneassuming they're built rsync-friendly... Haven't followed that issue, tho07:05
Kamionthey're as rsync-friendly as the CDs07:06
Kamionwhich is pretty friendly07:06
fabbioneanyway.. i need to go and cook dinner... wife is calling :-)07:06
KamionI could build the DVD daily, but I'm afraid elmo would kill me for the disk space usage07:06
Kamionand I really don't think people would actually download and test it daily07:06
Kamionmaybe somewhere in between would be better, although crontab syntax gets awkward then :)07:07
fabbioneKamion: indeed, but we can rsync daily.. that would make the time to sync to the latest much shorter07:07
Kamionevery Saturday and every Wednesday, or something07:07
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fabbioneKamion: what about a daily and we keep a shorter amount of previous-days stored?07:08
fabbionelike only one or two days?07:08
pittielmo: here?07:08
fabbionesorry.. i really need to go07:08
=== fabbione &
Kamionfabbione: possible, I guess07:08
fabbioneKamion: just an idea.. you decide ;)07:09
KamionI'll certainly think about it :)07:10
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lamontKamion: combo dvd == kubuntu+ubuntu?07:14
lamontor live+install?07:14
Kamiondon't really have the technology for kubuntu+ubuntu to be useful yet07:14
Kamion(no means to allow picking one at install time)07:14
mdzI'm getting totally crap transfer rates from cdimage now07:15
mdzare elmo and thom up to no good?07:15
mdzfabbione: I was rsyncing against a concatenation of the daily install+live CDs :-)07:15
RiddellKamion: some people like to install both07:15
lamontKamion: an ubuntu isnstall+live dvd that happened to have kubuntu-desktop and it's depends on the dvd as well would be really nice for release  - hell, for that matter, I'm in favor of slapping main on the dvd... but that's just me07:16
KamionRiddell: we don't have the installer tech yet to do that either :)07:16
Kamionlamont: I'd have to do something like concatenating germinate output07:16
mdzelmo does that already, so there's code07:16
Kamionthe original intention was to have main on the DVD, but then kubuntu happened :-)07:16
Kamionat the moment it's just Ubuntu supported07:17
Kamionlamont: but I agree with you, it'd be nice07:17
mdzseb128: gtkhtml accepted07:17
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lamontKamion: ubuntu+kubuntu > 4GB?07:18
jon1012hello everybody :)07:18
lamontKamion: kubuntu is making me rethink my home mirror as well: main-> ubuntu-supported07:18
ogra7join #ubuntu-meeting07:19
Kamionlamont: not sure07:20
Kamiongrr. right, that's it, I'm fixing that stupid base-config bug when the desktop install fails07:20
mdzKamion: the one where it dumps you into aptitude? :-P07:21
Kamionno, the one where it dumps you into aptitude without fixing your sources.list first07:22
mdzI really don't see the point of launching aptitude07:22
Kamiondumping you into aptitude is better than dumping you at a shell prompt07:23
mdzif the user knows how to get around in aptitude, they know how to launch it too07:23
MithrandirT-Bone: ia32-libs will make a lib32gcc1 package on ia64 only.  It's freaking ugly, but it should work fine.  I haven't sat down and coded it, but it should be easy enough.07:23
KamionI don't think that's true; I realise aptitude's UI is complex madness, but at least it *has* a UI and you stand some chance of discovering what to do07:23
T-BoneMithrandir: anything you want, as long as it works :)07:23
T-BoneMithrandir: need Nekkid up?07:24
mdzseb128: you said +1 hour 4 hours ago; does that mean you're finished?07:24
MithrandirT-Bone: not really, no.07:24
MithrandirT-Bone: not at the moment, at least.  I'm making dinner now anyhow07:24
T-Bonehehe ok07:24
Kamionmdz: so what should I do about this live CD isolinux options thing?07:25
seb128mdz: if there is no ftbfs that's fine with me07:25
mdzKamion: I'm happy with it as-is until overridden by sabdfl07:25
Kamionmy preferred option is to add a non-default 'auto' boot option that boots into US English, and document that on the front screen07:25
mdzseb128: I guess we need to rebuild evolution for the new gtkhtml?07:25
seb128mdz: there is a new gdm minor release but I would like to run it some time before pushing it07:25
seb128mdz: that should be done 07:26
Kamion('auto' rather than 'english' or whatever because I don't want the implication to be that we intend to create automatic boot options for every language)07:26
seb128mdz: archive is lagging ?07:26
mdzseb128: gtkhtml was in queue/new07:26
seb128en evo has a versionned build-dep on it07:26
mdzlamont: is evo auto-depwaited?07:27
mdzlamont: if not, please retry it07:27
lamontmdz: no email here - will check07:28
mdzlamont: hmm, s/retry/dep-wait/, gtkhtml is in queue/accepted07:28
lamontmdz: gtkhtml3.6 is new07:29
lamontwill auto-launch once that's in the archive07:29
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mdzlamont: it already is07:33
mdzsee above07:33
mdzthat is to say, it was new07:33
mdzit is new no longer07:34
mdzbut is not in the archive yet07:34
mdzoh, yes it is07:34
lamontshould be now...07:34
=== lamont tickles a few buildds
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Keybukmdz: we almost certainly want to sync libtool 1.5.6-5 from Debian07:35
mdzKeybuk: let's talk about itafter preview, and after it actually enters Debian07:35
Kamiondoesn't even seem to be in the queue yet07:36
Keybukok :)  but seb128 probably won't be able to build libgnomevfs2 without it :)07:37
KeybukKamion: it's just uploading to ftp-master now07:37
seb128Keybuk: I don't relibtoolize gnome-vfs2 :)07:37
seb128Keybuk: gnome-vfs2 2.10 is in hoary since yesterday07:37
Keybukfair enough; fixes the "1000 is not a non-negative integer" bug anyhoo07:38
xadashi all, i want to send some hw data but ubuntu hw manager doesn't work. [Please wait while the hardware data gets prepared]  (10 minutes and nothing)07:38
mdzxadas: we aren't ready to receive that data yet07:39
xadasmdz: thx07:39
mdzxadas: thanks for testing, though.  we'll make an announcement about it when we're ready to receive submissions07:40
pittithom: here?07:42
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mdzlamont: attempting kubuntu livefs builds now; let me know how they turn out07:55
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xadasbug: run gedit->undock toolbar->release it somewhere / now try to dock it back :-) bug in gnome?. Same with gnome-vim08:00
bluefoxicyWARNING: Failed to parse default value `(-,)' for schema (/schemas/apps/gnome-terminal/global/active_encodings)08:02
bluefoxicycan someone tell me what language that is?08:02
bluefoxicyit looks hebrew?08:03
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mdzlamont: looks like all of them have exited; did we get any successes?08:17
lamontErrors were encountered while processing:08:18
lamont /var/cache/apt/archives/konq-plugins_4%3a3.3.2-1ubuntu1_i386.deb08:18
lamont /var/cache/apt/archives/kdeartwork-style_4%3a3.3.2-1ubuntu2_i386.deb08:18
lamont /var/cache/apt/archives/kdeartwork-theme-window_4%3a3.3.2-1ubuntu2_i386.deb08:18
lamontwhich I believe are 3 of the 4 bugs from last night...08:18
Riddelllamont: we could remove kdeaddons and kdeartwork from the seed08:19
lamontmdz: want me to turn the crank on that?08:20
mdzlamont: which?08:21
lamont<Riddell> lamont: we could remove kdeaddons and kdeartwork from the seed\08:21
mdzsure, move them to supported08:21
lamontgrumble.  where are the kubuntu seeds?08:23
=== lamont bets on kubuntu-devel@...
Riddelllamont: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/kubuntu-hoary/08:25
lamontcommitted... now how long do we need to wait mdz?08:28
mdzlamont: max 17 minutes, or nag Kamion08:28
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lamonthrm.. I have write access to the files, but not to lots and lots of stuff under {arch}08:34
abellismurfix: ping08:34
=== lamont grows impatient, finds himself tempted to just edit them.
smurfixabelli: here08:35
lamontand he beat me to it08:35
sabdflKamion: let's go with your approach to the isolinux live cd options, see if that makes silbs happy08:37
sabdfldid morphix use isolinux too, or different boot system altogether?08:37
dredgmorphix used grub afaik08:38
lamontkubuntu-meta_0.33 uploaded08:38
lamontmdz: if cron.daily has finished, you could kick it again08:38
lamontwell, after cron.hourly, of course08:39
mdzsabdfl: yes, morphix used grub08:39
mdzsabdfl: which is the reason why it failed to boot on a variety of hardware where the Hoary live CD works08:40
mdz(one of the reasons)08:40
sabdflok. does anyone on our team track grub2?08:41
mdzjbailey does08:41
mdzin fact he uses it to boot his desktop, I think08:41
mdzspeaking of which, where is jbailey?  he had connectivity issues at home, but was settled into a cafe last I checked08:42
sabdflhe's out, will you ask him to keep us in the loop s we can adopt grub2 when its ready?08:42
T-Bonehe does08:42
T-Bonebut grub2 seems rather buggy afaict. And for ppc, it lacks quite a few essential features, like various FS support08:42
T-Bonegrub2 can't boot from anything else than ext2/ext3 fs, last time i checked08:43
mdzsabdfl: yeah, from what I've heard, it is not a likely candidate for bendy/breezy/breedy/etc.08:43
seb128pitti: you can kick new language-packs if you want :)08:45
lamontdredg: well, b0rky is right out. :-)08:45
seb128pitti: GNOME 2.10 stuff for preview are ok08:45
=== lamont shakes his head at kdegames
lamontTrying patch debian/patches/02_disable_no_undefined.diff at level08:46
mdzlamont: ->#kubuntu-devel, please08:47
mdzlamont: how big a project would it be to email failures to the uploader?08:47
danielsmdz: i suppose it would involve knowledge of whether it's an actual upload or whether it's been brought in via the autoimporter08:48
pittiseb128: I wait until tomorrow08:48
lamontmdz: that's an archive project08:48
pittiseb128: and I have to update the import scripts before08:48
lamontwell, maybe not.08:48
mdzdaniels: uploader if they're in the whitelist, otherwise a mailing list or such08:49
lamontmdz: the only worry would be to make sure that the uploader was the correct email, and not someone else (like the debian developer...)08:49
mdzlamont: I think the whitelist should take care of that08:49
lamontusing katie's whitelist?08:49
mdzand a little gzip+MIME love to make the sizes more reasonable08:49
lamontbzip2, dude. :-)08:50
seb128pitti: k08:50
lamontmdz: there does exist a little bit of confusion that way, because of the arch: all packages (which fail on 3/4 of the architectures, most of the time - sometimes they get built before the !i386 machines get to them..)08:51
lamontand, of course, for the normal ftbfs failure, you'll get 4 copies of the failure.08:51
=== lamont will need to discuss with elmo how this fits into the DC infrastructure/dmz-maze.
lamontbut beyond that, it shouldn't be too difficult08:52
=== T-Bone sees fedora opening an ia64 dev mailing list, shrugs
lamontmdz: hrm... logfile doesn't have the uploader address in it... that makes things a bit more ugly, at least for my side of things.08:54
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tritiummako, I got my key signed.  I'm strongly connnected now :)08:59
lamontmdz: and note that our, um, fix, is rather abusive to emacs21, and means anyone hacking on it needs to go through a bit of pain.08:59
lamontspecifically, reversing our fix, debian/rules clean, reapply our fix.  or evilness happens.08:59
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Kamionsabdfl: ok, will do09:13
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mdzlamont: kubuntu-live*4 in queue/accepted09:15
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=== T-Bone is now known as T-Gone
lamontmdz: and awaiting cron.daily?09:16
mdzlamont: yep09:16
mdzKamion: shall we put together a preview candidate and call for testing?09:16
mdzlooks like everything is in09:16
mdzoh, except langpacks09:16
mdzpitti: when do you expect to have updated langpacks uploaded?09:17
mdzpitti: bod seems to have a fix for the perl FTBFS issue, good09:17
Kamionmdz: hang on, bit of stuff still to do for this live CD thing09:19
danielsmdz: i'll be out all day; working a bit while I'm out, but doing the bulk of my work later on in the day09:20
danielsmdz: (bulk of my work -> triaging a hojillion bugs)09:20
mdzdaniels: the only one I'm curious about for preview is the german keymap one09:22
=== lamont schedules kubuntu-live rootfs builds
danielsmdz: still haven't worked that out, but will probe further09:24
Kamionthe fact that we're using pc104/pc105 keymaps on powerpc worries me in general09:24
Kamionshouldn't it be macintosh?09:24
thomKamion: to get torrents to work right and be auto-triggered we need a third, minimal rsync target; basically just current for daily and sounders/arrays/whatever, and releases09:25
thomis that do-able?09:25
mdzmy keyboard is a pc105 and I use it with a G409:25
danielsKamion: my understanding was that modern (non-adb-based) macs used pc105 just as well as, if not better than, macintosh09:26
Kamionthom: noted, I'll have a look09:26
mdzthom: can we do it with --exclude/--include?09:26
Kamiondaniels: hm, ok09:26
Kamionmdz: not with restricted ssh keys, I imagine09:26
Kamionhardlinked rsync targets are doable09:27
danielsKamion: happy to be proven wrong, however09:27
Kamiongrr, I'm beginning to run out of kernel argument space09:28
lamontKamion: that's tunable, yes?09:34
Kamionnope, hardcoded in the kernel09:34
Kamionthey increased it in 2.6.11, though, I think09:34
Kamionif I could use a preseed file, this would be saner, but currently I can't for stuff that early09:35
Kamionshould be able to fix that in breezy though09:35
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Kamionsabdfl: hmm. This is more problematic than I thought; the new keyboard chooser is more difficult to preseed (partly because the raw keyboard names differ between AT and USB keyboards), and trying to do so causes me to run out of kernel argument space. I have a strategy to fix it (alter the initrd-preseed package to allow selectable preseed files in the initrd, and go from there), but I think it's best left until afte09:46
Kamionalthough, hm, I could possibly use kickstart to do it09:46
Kamionwonder if that would work09:46
=== mdz 's eyes go wide with fear
lamontmdz: i386 is building locales09:47
mdzlamont: yay!09:47
mdzlamont: are the others chugging away?09:47
Kamionmdz: fancy a live CD mode that gets a Kickstart file off the CD-ROM as its first action? :-)09:47
Kamionit'd probably actually work09:48
mdzKamion: sounds like a good plan for breezy09:48
Kamion... oh, except that kickseed only preseeds console-keymaps-at/keymap, not the others; that was silly of me09:48
Kamionok, we'll go with my previous plan for post-preview then if there are no objections09:48
lamontmdz: well, weddell finished already, but we kinda expected that.... :-)09:49
mdzI've removed weddell from my script :-P09:49
mdztemporarily, of course09:49
mdzbecause I know there are legions of ia64 users hungry for live CDs09:49
=== lamont believes that there are more hppa users who want it than ia64 users... :))
thomi can't believe there are legions of hungry ia64 users - they can use the fricking machine to cook on without problems09:50
lamontthom: itanium was the hottest chip on the market when it shipped.09:51
mdzit still is09:51
=== lamont had thought one of the amd64 chips out heated it.
mdzfifty thousand watts of mind-boggling slowness09:51
lamontor maybe it was some other vendor's custom CPU.  can't remember09:52
pittimdz: I'm still at updating the langpack-o-matic scripts (implementing new spec), but I can generate new packs at any time09:52
thomlamont: amd64 is pretty cool actually09:52
lamontyeah - was someone's...09:52
mdz> The world's first live CD that allows users to save their data back to the CD has been born.09:52
mdzthat's actually a damn fine idea09:52
pittimdz: however, I'd like to wait until all packages are uploaded09:52
Kamionmdz: terrifying09:52
=== mdz adds it to the list for UDU
pittimdz: perl> bod pinged me nad there is a new sid upload; will do this tomorrow09:52
Kamionif the burn goes wrong, you're toast09:52
lamontmdz: uh... that scares me...09:52
thomit'd be an impressive trick for a cd-r...09:53
mdzKamion: yeah, it gets rid of that pesky "no risk" live CD angle09:53
Kamionunless it does weird multisession tricks09:53
mdzI'm sure it does multisession09:53
mdzbut I think that if you screw that up, you're still toast09:53
lamontbrings new meanings to "having a backup"09:53
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Kamion"a backup system, somewhere else"09:54
=== lamont screams, notes that amd64 is leading the race
=== T-Gone is now known as T-Bone
lamonti386 and powerpc restarted, this time they should actually get 0.33 :-(09:56
mdzlamont: how did they get that far if they didn't get 0.33?09:58
pittithom: can you install packages in the dchroots?09:59
lamontthey die _installing_ kubuntu-desktop, not before10:00
lamontduh :-(10:00
lamontkinda woke me up too.10:00
pittielmo: ping10:00
elmopitti: ?10:00
pittielmo: can you please install me some build-dependencies in concordia's hoary dchroot?10:00
pittielmo: I need the build-deps for http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/todo-rebuild.txt10:01
pittielmo: this is the list of packages that failed to build today10:01
sabdflcan it put "it will probably work" on the Quotes page?10:03
sabdflKamion: your call10:03
sabdfljust trying to find low-hanging fruit to make the new livecd *feel* faster, much like the reboot stuff10:03
sabdfleven though the new tech is much better, it feels like a regression to joe user to have the questions10:04
sabdflif there's no low-hanging fruit, don't climb up into the branches on my account at this stage10:04
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dholbachhai mvo10:04
mvohey dholbach 10:05
ograhas anybody else problems with gpg ?10:05
mdzsabdfl: if it's really that important, there is low-hanging fruit where we can get real performance gains out of the live CD10:05
Kamionsabdfl: nod, filing a bug to let us track it10:05
mdzsabdfl: but please not for preview10:06
sabdflmdz: np10:06
ograi cant sign anything anymore and in  ~/.gnupg i have pubring.gpg~ and pubring.gpg.tmp suddenly, but pubring.gpg has 0 bytes10:06
mdzI have not yet begun to optimize10:06
Treenaksogra: replace pubring.gpg by pubring.gpg~ -- but ONLY if there are no gpg processes running10:06
Treenaksogra: (i.e. restore the backup -~ file)10:07
mdzbear in mind that the new live CD *does* a lot more than the warty one10:07
ograTreenaks: i know how to solve it10:07
mdzif performance is more important, I can turn some of that stuff off10:07
ograTreenaks: but this simply shouldnt happen without a good reason....10:07
Treenaksogra: like, killall -9 gpg or something10:07
mdzsabdfl: for example, it automagically configures the panel to have the battery applet if you're on a laptop10:08
mdzthat takes a few seconds10:08
ograTreenaks: nope, not running....10:08
dredgmdz: it depends on what kind of hardware this is being aimed at.10:09
mdzI could do the user creation stuff with lower-level tools; it takes a long time to load adduser off of the CD10:09
mdzmy focus was on clean design and a reasonable feature set, not performance10:09
lamontThis filesystem will be automatically checked every 31 mounts or10:10
lamont180 days, whichever comes first.  Use tune2fs -c or -i to override.10:10
ograTreenaks: i suspect evo messed it up...10:10
elmopitti: done on both chroots10:10
pittielmo: thanks10:10
=== metalikop is now known as metallikop
lamontwoot filesystem even10:10
mdzwewy nice10:11
lamontso amd64 will be done pretty soon - that's the last text before we begin rsync'ing to the (new) filesystem image10:11
mdzlet me know when we're ready to kick off a new set of live CDs10:12
lamontor do you want to know when amd64 is done, since the other 2 are behind by ~20 minutes?10:12
mdzKamion: given the deferral of the live CD madn^Wenhancements, can we agree to a freeze and a test cycle?10:12
mdzlamont: I just want to know when they're all done10:12
HiddenWolfis anyone writing up the improvements warty -> hoary ?10:13
Kamionmdz: yep, certainly. I'm just building Kubuntu install CDs now, as soon as that's finished I'll switch to building Ubuntu stuff10:13
Kamionmdz: oh, I need a d-i rebuild10:13
Kamionjust kicked one off10:13
=== Riddell hugs Kamion for putting kubuntu first :)
mdzKamion: better get it in before elmo falls over10:13
mdzRiddell: kubuntu is the squeaky wheel at the moment :-)10:14
lamontamd64 compressing10:14
elmomdz: don't worry, I've got several server boxes to sleep in - I'm sorted10:14
mdzelmo: nothing like a warm box after a transatlantic flight10:15
mdzRiddell: kuickshow and kview are scheduled to move out to universe unless you want them10:18
KamionRiddell: you just got there first, is all ;)10:18
Riddellmdz: out they go please10:18
mdzlamont: we'll want to roll a new Ubuntu live fs as soon as kubuntu is done10:19
lamontsure, np10:21
mdzHiddenWolf: the documentation team has a set of release notes; they're part of the desktop install now10:21
mdzHiddenWolf: mako is working on a preview release announcement10:21
lamontmdz: ok to kick the ubuntu livecd image?10:24
lamontfsimage, that is10:24
lamontfigured I'd let amd64 stay ahead...10:25
mdzlamont: yep, whenever you're ready10:25
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jdubmorning all10:26
thomno it's not10:26
lamontmdz: ubuntu builds queued up waiting for the kubuntu build to finish on i386, ppc.  ia64 building10:28
=== lamont needs to go fetch a kid from school pretty soon
=== lamont checks to see if the wife is available to do it
mdzlamont: how will I know when they're done?10:29
ograjdub: morning10:29
Kamionelmo: d-i builds should be there; can you let me know when they're byhanded, and I'll start a test candidate run?10:29
lamontwife available. /me stays10:30
T-Bonelamont: wife exited with status 0? :^)10:32
=== T-Bone ducks
elmoKamion: a ubuntu21?10:32
Kamionelmo: no, a triggered daily10:33
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lamontwow. that's a collection of languages on the livecd10:34
elmowill that have broken if I didn't process the existing daily build?10:34
Kamionum. oh.10:35
KamionI guess so.10:35
elmo(to be fair I was over the atlantic at the time it appeared ;)10:35
Kamionsowwy ...10:35
elmoI'll process it now and you can try again?10:36
Kamionhopefully w-b won't be too confused by the whole deal10:36
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lamont[ if cron.daily runs after the d-i daily build, but before it is byhand-ed, then a subsequent d-i daily build uses the same binNMU number.  if you launch 2 before cron.daily runs, then it gets the right binNMU number... ] 10:37
lamontI suppose I could keep state outside of w-b...10:37
lamontKamion: do we care enough to tweak this post hoary?10:37
lamontor post preview, or...10:37
KamionI was kind of thinking of writing a katie patch that taught it how to process raw-installer automatically10:38
lamontbtw, what exactly is done with that?10:38
Kamionwhich would render that by and large irrelevant10:38
Kamionwith what?10:38
lamontthe d-i upload10:39
lamontwhere does the tar.gz go?10:39
Kamionunpacked into dists/hoary/main/installer-$arch/10:39
lamontah, ok10:39
dholbachelmo: could you please sync zvbi and gtranslator from sid, if you find the time?10:42
makomdz: oh wait10:42
makomdz: is there a final verdict on architectures we'll be printing up and shiping?10:42
mdzmako: same as warty10:42
makomdz: good10:42
elmodholbach: gtranslator is in main - that'll need approval10:42
dholbachelmo: oh ok... sorry10:43
elmodholbach: zvbi done10:43
dholbachelmo: i'll have another look what the issue with gtranslator was10:43
=== T-Bone will wait post-preview to upload efibootmgr
dholbachelmo: thanks10:43
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smurfixKamion: Can you tell me which preseed arguments the keyboard chooser now needs vs. what it needed before? Maybe I can fix that10:47
Kamionsmurfix: kbd-chooser/method="big long string"10:48
Kamionsmurfix: I realise that it can take kbd-chooser/method=us etc., which is cool10:49
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Kamionsmurfix: but that doesn't really work in this use case, because console-keymaps-at requires "us" while console-keymaps-usb requires "mac-usb-us"10:49
Kamionso the keymaps have to be preseeded separately anyway10:49
windows-farhanquestion does any of the ubuntu versions have speakup support for the blind so i don't waste a cd burning useless stuff. lol10:50
Kamionsmurfix: as it turns out I doubt kbd-chooser is going to block me, I'll just invent a way to put multiple optional preseed files in the initrd10:50
mdzlamont: any joy for kubuntu cloops?10:50
Kamionwindows-farhan: one sec10:50
lamontkubuntu is happy10:51
mdzwindows-farhan: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AccessibleHoaryLiveCDDerivitive10:51
windows-farhanis there a installer version i can grab?10:51
windows-farhani wana instal it. 10:51
mdzwindows-farhan: there is not currently an accessible installer10:51
lamontamd64 is setting up libsane, i386 is building locales, and ppc is chunking along trying to keep up with its big brothers10:52
mdzlamont: oh, kubuntu is done x3?10:52
windows-farhanwiat. how do i actually use this. oh hell i'll go to the website10:52
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lamontkubuntu x310:52
mdzKamion: safe to kick off kubuntu live CD builds?10:52
lamontppc is actually downloading ubuntu debs atm10:52
mdzload average on little looks relatively safe10:52
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windows-farhanit didn't coppy10:53
Kamionwindows-farhan: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-February/004516.html10:53
windows-farhancan you throw me that link again? please?10:53
Kamionmdz: sure10:53
Kamionwindows-farhan: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AccessibleHoaryLiveCDDerivitive10:53
Kamionsigh, I hate misspelled URLs10:53
Kamionmisspelled wiki pages, rather10:53
mdzheh, I didn't even notice, I copy/pasted from google10:54
smurfixKamion: OK.10:54
windows-farhani'm going to get this. and how?10:54
windows-farhanthe link is broken10:55
mdzwindows-farhan: we're in the middle of some development work right now, please take this over to #ubuntu10:56
mdzKamion: hmm10:59
mdzKamion: cron.kubuntu-daily-live just failed due to ia6410:59
mdzKamion: and didn't go on to try powerpc, which should have worked10:59
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Riddellyou can remove kdegames if you need a more space11:01
mdz588M hoary-live-amd64.iso  571M hoary-live-i386.iso11:01
mdzlooks OK11:01
Kamionmdz: damn. ok, I'll look11:01
mdzKamion: go ahead and kick off a kubuntu-daily-live build when you're ready11:01
mdzlamont: ubuntu cloops ready?11:02
Kamionhaha, ok, my new code fell over. whoops11:02
dokomdz: ok to upload linux-meta to add the avm-fritz-firmware package (fabbione did agree)?11:04
mdzdoko: after preview11:04
dokoI'd like to have at Cebit for presentation, if at all possible11:05
mdzdoko: when is cebit?11:08
lamontmdz: amd64 done, i386 in partimage, ppc in locale generation11:08
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dokostarting this thursday, I'm there friday, as a fallback I can present from a notebook, but the cd as a handout would be nice.11:11
mdzKamion: looks good11:11
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mdz565M hoary-live-amd64.iso   43M hoary-live-ia64.iso11:13
mdz550M hoary-live-i386.iso   622M hoary-live-powerpc.iso11:13
mdztwo guesses which one is broken11:13
dholbachseb128: libxml++2.6 is universe, so no worries for you anymore :-)11:13
seb128dholbach: cool11:13
KamionI wonder why it published ia6411:13
Kamionoh, it had a cloop, it was just empty11:14
pittiseb128: gwenview's po file layout in the source package does not fit into my scripts; this one must stay obsolete, I'm afraid11:17
seb128pitti: is that a package name ?11:17
seb128dunno about it11:17
elmoit's a kde thing11:17
T-BoneKamion: i expect that the cloop issue to be resolved when we'll have proper language-support on ia64. I wonder whether the firefox locale issue is just pending ooffice support, actually11:18
lamontmdz: i386,amd64 done.  ppc in scrollkeeper purgatory11:18
pittiseb128: source package name11:18
T-Bone(sort of)11:18
Kamionmdz: ok, that shouldn't happen again11:18
pittiseb128: oh yes, seems to belong to kde11:18
seb128pitti: k, I don't know about it, so I don't care :p11:18
elmoKamion: oh, crap, sorry, I forgot to mention, you can d-i at will11:18
pittiseb128: never mind, then11:18
pittimdz: when shall I do new langpacks? now or tomorrow (i. e. in about 10 hours)?11:19
pittiKamion: ^11:19
mdzpitti: now would be best, if possible11:19
mdzseb128 says he is finished with GNOME11:19
pittimdz: they are still not perfect, but should do pretty well11:19
pittimdz: I'm almost inclined to do new base packages... 11:20
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Kamionelmo: cool, running now11:20
elmomdz: oh no! who are we going to sucker into doing that insane number of uploads now??11:21
pittielmo: I can wait a bit if necessary11:21
elmopitti: ? huh?  I was trolling mdz, poorly, ignore me11:21
pittielmo: or just do new update packages (which means wasting space, but the heck with it)11:21
mdzjbailey: can you provide any insight on the canadian keyboard layout issue on ubuntu-devel?11:25
jbaileyLemme look.  I had let u-d slip over the last 2 days.11:26
mdzelmo: when would be the best time for the mirror hit to regenerate new base langpacks?11:27
Kamioncjwatson@little:~/cdimage/scratch/kubuntu/live$ ls11:27
Kamionamd64.cloop  amd64.manifest  i386.cloop  i386.manifest  powerpc.cloop  powerpc.manifest11:27
Kamionmuch better11:27
Kamionelmo: d-i builds ready for love11:27
jbaileymdz: Ah.  Those are French Canadian keyboards, and I don't think they're in common usage, but I haven't done any work in hardcore French areas.  Even the Alliance Franaise in Toronto doesn't use those.11:29
elmomdz: for who?  us or them?  for them, doesn't matter - for us, sometime not near an array/milestone release11:29
jbailey(still working my way through the thread)11:29
mdzpitti: sounds like today is better than tomorrow11:29
pittimdz: I'm already at it11:29
pittimdz: however, there are so many updates, I just build a clean set of new base packages and empty updates11:30
mdzjbailey: I think it comes down to a question of nomenclature11:30
mdzjbailey: and choosing the best default11:30
mdzpitti: right, that's what I meant11:30
pittimdz: okay, please distract elmo for a minute, I push the trigger now :-)11:31
mdzelmo: uh, why is load on jackass 45.3?11:32
elmoit's not?11:32
mdzpitti: QUICKLY11:32
mdzmy distraction did not last very long11:32
elmoy'all suck11:32
elmomdz: next time choose a host I won't have multiple shells open on11:32
Loevborgthe old two-headed monkey trick usually works better.11:33
pittiLoevborg: two heads? that's a new one then11:33
mdzelmo: I don't have accounts on machines like that, it wouldn't be convincing11:33
mdzlamont: all done?11:33
lamontppc is in partimage11:34
lamontfigure about 5-10 more minutes11:34
mdzppc sure does take its time11:34
lamonteta is 3 min on the partimage restore, then we have to compress.11:34
pittimdz: uploads done11:35
mdzI suppose slow is better than randomly-segfaulting11:35
lamontmdz: that's 'slow and occasionally SIGILLing'11:36
lamontalthough not so much recently11:36
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lamontor maybe not - I masked myself from seeing that... 11:36
Kamionheh. "SIGILL? what SIGILL?"11:37
ariit must be sick11:38
lamontKamion: the autodepwaiter tells those to retry. :-)11:38
elmoKamion: done11:38
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lamontmdz: go11:47
mdzlamont: going11:47
Kamionelmo: thanks11:49
Kamionhey, locking in a cdimage script11:49
Kamionlamont: how come the ia64 d-i dailies seem to start at .200503080, etc.?11:51
mdzKamion: oop, did I step on your toes?11:51
elmokamion: I don't know, but it's driving me nuts11:51
lamontKamion: because when it ran, there was a .YYYYMMDD already in existance sometime in the past, on YYYYMMDD11:52
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lamontthe only way to do a second d-i build that day is to either steal tomorrow, or add a trailing 0.  once you add the trailing zero, you can't remove it.11:52
lamontand, no, you only have _DIGITS_ to use in that field11:53
Kamionmdz: no, I was just running anonftpsync to see what installer-* looked like11:53
Kamionlamont: um, the sequence in daily-installer-ia64 is 200503070, 200503080, 20050308111:53
Kamionlamont: I don't see how that tallies?11:53
Kamionlamont: oh, never mind, I understand11:54
Kamion200503081 > 2005030911:54
lamontyeah, somewhere back when we did '20050306' and 20050306011:54
lamonttherefore it's 20050309011:54
lamontand if it causes too much stress, then you do a sourceful upload11:55
Kamionlamont: right, you told me this a while back, but I forgot the explanation 'cos it's, err, so obvious. :-)11:56
lamontugly hacks have a way of compounding themselvesd11:57
lamontKamion: if you want, I could change it to a consistant YYYYMMDDHHmm :0)11:58
Kamionlamont: let's not, eh? :)11:58
Kamionmdz: live seems done, I've kicked an install CD build11:59
Kamionthat'll be a while, so I'm taking a break, back in an hour or so12:00

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