[12:01] <seb128> $ nm -D /usr/lib/libwnck-1.so.16 | grep _wnck_read_icons
[12:01] <seb128> 00021847 T _wnck_read_icons
[12:01] <seb128> $ nm tmp/usr/lib/libwnck-1.so.16 | grep _wnck_read_icons
[12:01] <seb128> 000218e0 t _wnck_read_icons
[12:01] <seb128> 
[12:01] <seb128> somebody understand the difference ? 
[12:01] <Kamion> http://www.xciv.org/~meta/Journal/2005/03/tune.png
[12:01] <Kamion> ^-- hoary song
[12:02] <mdke> harsh
[12:02] <ogra> Kamion: this bad ?
[12:02] <T-None> seb128: in one case the symbol is local, in the other it's global
[12:02] <T-None> seb128: else i've nothing to say :)
[12:02] <Kamion> actually the context is really tax, but :)
[12:02] <seb128> any idea of what could make that change ?
[12:03] <jbailey> seb128: link time visibility flags?
[12:03] <T-None> as jbailey says
[12:03] <T-None> bye all
[12:03] <seb128> jbailey: that's libwnck package build one week ago and now
[12:04] <seb128> jbailey: any idea on what in the buildchain or whatever could do that ?
[12:04] <seb128> same source package
[12:04] <seb128> jbailey: have you changed something in cdbs to do that ? :p
[12:04] <jbailey> seb128: Does it update libtool at buildtime?
[12:05] <seb128> nop
[12:05] <seb128> that's a cdbs gnome.mk
[12:05] <seb128> ie: ./configure && make
[12:05] <jbailey> seb128: No, the only cdbs change in hoary was to add pitti's cdbs-edit-patch script.
[12:05] <seb128> k
[12:05] <jbailey> seb128: Do you have both build logs?
[12:06] <seb128> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libw/libwnck/2.9.92.1-0ubuntu1/
[12:06] <seb128> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libw/libwnck/2.10.0-0ubuntu1/
[12:06] <seb128> 
[12:06] <seb128> the only changes are translation between both
[12:06] <jbailey> And by "same source package" you mean...
[12:06] <jbailey> Ah. =)
[12:06] <seb128> rebuilding the first one today gives the same result as 2.10
[12:06] <lamont> jbailey: everything that is not build-essential is fresh-installed each build
[12:08] <jbailey> Err -Wl,--export-dynamic was dropped from the LIBWNCK_LIBS configure line.
[12:09] <seb128> $ grep LIBWNCK_LIBS libwnck_2.9.92.1-0ubuntu1_i386.build
[12:09] <seb128> checking LIBWNCK_LIBS... -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lm -lpangoxft-1.0 -lpangox-1.0 -lpango-1.0 -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -ldl -lglib-2.0 -lstartup-notification-1
[12:09] <seb128> 
[12:09] <seb128> just built on my box
[12:10] <seb128> something is doing that in the buildchain so
[12:10] <lamont> haggai: kdebase -ubuntu2 ftbfs
[12:10] <lamont> ld: cannot find -lxkbfile_pic
[12:10] <seb128> jbailey: where does it come from ?
[12:10] <jbailey> Gimme a sec, I don't have deb-src lines on this box.
[12:10] <seb128> k
[12:12] <haggai> lamont: seen it, some nasty auto* stuff thanks
[12:12] <lamont> enjoy. :-(
[12:18] <psy__> ?!
[12:18] <psy__> :p
[12:21] <jbailey> seb128: Looks like your problem is from gtk 2.6.3 to 2.6.4
[12:21] <jbailey> LIBWNCK_LIBS is provided by pkg-config for gtk.
[12:21] <jbailey> Which seems like screwball naming of it to me.
[12:22] <pitti> seb128: new langpacks built and uploaded, please inform me about any troubles
[12:22] <pitti> good night everybody
[12:22] <jbailey> g'n Martin.
[12:27] <lamont> ./libtool: line 4696: /usr/bin/expr: Argument list too long
[12:27] <lamont> using piecewise archive linking...
[12:27] <lamont> now that's just precious.
[12:27] <lamont> jbailey??? ^^^
[12:27] <lamont> ok.  libtool would be Keybuk, not jbailey. nm
[12:27] <seb128> jbailey: oh
[12:28] <lamont> doko: fwiw, that's from gcc-4.0
[12:28] <seb128> jbailey: gtk 2.6.4 has this change "* Move a lot of const data to the .rodata section [Matthias Clasen] "
[12:28] <seb128> jbailey: nothing to do with that ?
[12:28] <seb128> I don't think so
[12:29] <seb128> the changelog is pretty small
[12:30] <jbailey> lamont: of all the things to blame on me, please not libtool. =)
[12:30] <jbailey> seb128: Can you easily play with the two versions?  It would be interesting to see the output from
[12:31] <jbailey> pkg-config --libs "gtk+-2.0 >= 2.5.4 $STARTUP_NOTIFICATION_PACKAGE"
[12:31] <jbailey> Err.  Lesse what's in that variable. =)
[12:31] <zenwhen> am i the only person for whom firefox is just insanely slow right now?
[12:31] <doko> lamont: do you still have the build?
[12:32] <seb128> jbailey: -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lm -lpangoxft-1.0 -lpangox-1.0 -lpango-1.0 -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -ldl -lglib-2.0 (2.6.4)
[12:33] <seb128> jbailey: -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lm -lpangoxft-1.0 -lpangox-1.0 -lpango-1.0 -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -ldl -lglib-2.0 (2.6.3)
[12:33] <lamont> doko: it's still running
[12:34] <lamont> jbailey: sorry still trying to overcome my lumping of *dbs in with autocrap/libstool.
[12:34] <lamont> :-)
[12:34] <jbailey> seb128: Was that an accidental uparrow/Enter or was that from each version?
[12:34] <seb128> each version
[12:34] <seb128> pkg-config --libs "gtk+-2.0 >= 2.5.4"
[12:35] <jbailey> Lemme see what's in $STARTUP_NOTIFICATION_PACKAGE.
[12:36] <jbailey> Oh look, libstartup-notification. =)
[12:36] <jbailey> But it's the same version, so that's not where it's from.
[12:37] <jbailey> pkg-config is the same.
[12:37] <jbailey> hrm
[12:37] <seb128> $ grep export-dynamic /usr/lib/pkgconfig/*.pc
[12:37] <seb128> /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gmodule-2.0.pc:Libs: -L${libdir} -Wl,--export-dynamic -lgmodule-2.0 -ldl
[12:38] <lamont> jbailey: and glib2.0 has diff versions, too.. :-) (in seb128's nearly identical lines above...)
[12:38] <jbailey> Does gtk automatically pull in glib?
[12:38] <jbailey> Hmm.
[12:38] <jbailey> I see that.
[12:38] <seb128> lamont: no, (2.6.3) (2.6.4) is from me
[12:38] <seb128> that's the gtk version :p
[12:39] <seb128> jbailey: oh ?
[12:40] <seb128> :)
[12:40] <jbailey> seb128: How is libwnck breaking, are you getting linktime or runtime errors?
[12:40] <seb128> jbailey: it's not
[12:40] <seb128> jbailey: in fact, here is the issue
[12:40] <jbailey> seb128: Are you cruising the ABIs for fun? =)
[12:41] <seb128> no
[12:41] <jbailey> And you say I'm sick for enjoying hacking on glibc... ;)
[12:41] <seb128> lol
[12:41] <seb128> Removed: _wnck_pager_get_n_workspaces
[12:41] <seb128> Removed: _wnck_pager_get_workspace
[12:41] <seb128> Removed: _wnck_pager_get_workspace_name
[12:41] <seb128> 
[12:41] <seb128> I've such changes in the nm -D output
[12:41] <seb128> there are private symboles right ? (starting by "_")
[12:41] <seb128> should not be an issue
[12:41] <seb128> but 
[12:42] <seb128> (there is a but)
[12:42] <seb128> devilspie uses that to do its trick with the windows
[12:42] <seb128> so when I try to build it
[12:42] <seb128> vilspie-action-debug.o(.text+0x11d): In function `___1_devilspie_action_debug_run':
[12:42] <seb128> /tmp/devilspie-0.7/src/devilspie-action-debug.gob:18: undefined reference to `_wnck_atom_get'
[12:42] <seb128> devilspie-action-debug.o(.text+0x133):/tmp/devilspie-0.7/src/devilspie-action-debug.gob:18: undefined reference to `_wnck_get_string_property_latin1'
[12:42] <seb128> 
[12:42] <seb128> etc
[12:42] <jordi> ooh
[12:42] <jordi> devilspie is evil
[12:42] <jordi> evil as the devil
[12:42] <jordi> dudes
[12:42] <jordi> I'm going to sleep
[12:43] <jordi> My Harrods story is finished.
[12:43] <ajmitch> night jordi 
[12:43] <thierry> hi, I'd like to help, what can I do?
[12:43] <seb128> bug triage ? :)
[12:44] <jordi> epiphany has a lot of open bugs that are probly not an issue anymore >(
[12:44] <jordi> err
[12:44] <jordi> :)
[12:44] <seb128> jordi: look on your new package, evolution
[12:44] <jordi> shuddup seb
[12:44] <seb128> and then you can scream :p
[12:48] <jbailey> seb128: Interesting.  devilspie should never have linked.  There's a linker regex in there that keeps these symbols from being included.
[12:48] <jbailey> Whatever was providing that export and isn't now was exposing stuff the author intentionally marked as not.
[12:49] <jbailey> seb128: If you're willing to play with libtool magic, try patching out the regex in libwnck/Makefile.am
[12:49] <seb128> k, thanks
[12:51] <jbailey> seb128: The right answer in the end is to get libwnck to export whatever functionlity devilspie needs.  I suspect we won't make too many friends by overexposing the internals.
[12:51] <seb128> yeah
[12:51] <seb128> I think I've found the change
[12:52] <seb128> 2005-01-07  Matthias Clasen  <mclasen@redhat.com>
[12:52] <seb128> 	* configure.in:
[12:52] <seb128> 	* Makefile.am: Generate and distribute gmodule-export-2.0.pc,
[12:52] <seb128> 	which is currently just a copy of gmodule-2.0.pc, but makes
[12:52] <seb128> 	it explicit that it adds --export-dynamic.
[12:52] <jbailey> Oy yeah.
[12:52] <seb128> in glib
[12:52] <jbailey> In a feeder project like glib, globally changing symbol handling is bad karma. =)
[12:52] <seb128> :)
[12:56] <Kamion> bah, why is the volume control icon appearing permanently muted on this upgraded-from-warty install, but not in the fresh-hoary install on the same machine
[12:56] <seb128> is the volume level to 0 on the boot on the upgrade ?
[12:56] <jbailey> Or maybe rights to the audio device.
[12:56] <Kamion> I can't unmute it even if I try, I doubt it's that
[12:57] <Kamion> nah, I'm in the audio group
[12:57] <seb128> is the sound working with aplay ?
[12:57] <seb128> and amixer
[12:57] <jbailey> Ooo!  you said fresh install!
[12:57] <jbailey> Kamion: can you check something for me after? =)
[12:58] <Kamion> not that fresh :)
[12:58] <Kamion> but I'll be doing loads of fresh installs tomorrow
[12:58] <jbailey> Kamion: 'kay.  I uploaded an initrd-tools that I think should get the swappartition detection right for resume, but I don't know if it worked.
[12:59] <jbailey> I uploaded it..  Friday, I think.
[01:00] <Kamion> amixer says [off]  for everything, aplay doesn't complain but doesn't do anything useful either
[01:00] <ogra> Kamion: try to change the device in the gnome-volume control
[01:00] <ogra> app
[01:01] <Kamion> aha!
[01:01] <Kamion> thanks, that works :)
[01:01] <ogra> lamont and i had the same prob...we should have a bug to remember it for upgrade notes i guess
[01:02] <ogra> (or to solve it indeed)
[01:13] <doko> Mithrandir: The `--enable' options recognized by software in the gas distribution are:
[01:13] <doko> `--enable-targets=...'
[01:13] <doko>      This causes one or more specified configurations to be added to those for
[01:13] <doko>      which BFD support is compiled.  Currently gas cannot use any format other
[01:13] <doko>      than its compiled-in default, so this option is not very useful.
[01:14] <doko> so, cannot build lib32gcc1, until elmo builds an i486 assembler for ia64 ...
[01:14] <doko> ... is not very useful ...
[01:21] <jbailey> Hmm.  I wonder if it's expected that failing to recover a suspend-to-disk leaves me without a usable swap signature.
[01:26] <daniels> Mithrandir: you were seeing lots of questions asked on xorg upgrade, right?
[01:29] <haggai> doko: thanks for your gsfonts upload
[01:31] <mjg59> thom: Did we ever get round to uploading an acpi-support set which used the locking?
[01:32] <thom> yeah, 0.19
[01:33] <mjg59> Rock
[01:34] <zenwhen> lots of upgrades today\
[01:34] <zenwhen> nothing that looks like it will make firefox less of a CPU hog though :/
[01:36] <thom> zenwhen: ...
[01:37] <zenwhen> thom, upgrading from array 4 to current a couple days ago made firefox render and perform like a total pig.
[01:37] <thom> zenwhen: stop powernowd and see if it still happens
[01:38] <zenwhen> ok
[01:38] <zenwhen> wow
[01:38] <zenwhen> that seems a lot faster
[01:39] <zenwhen> what the hell is powernowd?
[01:39] <zenwhen> if it isn't important, I might kiss you.
[01:39] <thom> right, looks like kernel changes has made frequency scaling a lot more aggressive for some people
[01:39] <thom> zenwhen: reduces clock speed when you're not using it
[01:39] <jdub> thom: did you see the bug about the ondemand governor in the kernel?
[01:39] <thom> yep
[01:40] <zenwhen> thom, wow... and it is enabled by default in hoary?
[01:40] <thom> it's enabled by default in warty
[01:40] <thom> and has been since day 0 pretty much
[01:40] <zenwhen> it must behave a bit differently in hoaryt
[01:40] <zenwhen> I never had this issue before now
[01:40] <thom> like i said, i think it's a kernel change, but icbwe
[01:41] <daniels> thom: a *lot* more aggressive, it seems
[01:41] <thom> uh, s/e$//
[01:41] <thom> daniels: nod
[01:42] <zenwhen> Thanks a lot though
[01:42] <zenwhen> I suppose my bug I filed on firefox is fixed
[01:45] <zenwhen> :D
[01:46] <mroth> daniels: yes, it likes to speedstep my 3.2GHz cpu down to 400MHz if you let it ;-)
[01:46] <daniels> awesome
[01:47] <mroth> I get around it by editing /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq
[01:47] <mroth>  /scaling_min_freq
[01:49] <mdz> thom: these reports of powernowd issues only started recently, much more recently than the most recent kernel update
[01:50] <mdz> I don't understand what changed
[01:50] <thom> mdz: certainly powernow didn't, althought it maybe that it's able to control more cpus due to the way the fallback happens from detected to smi to the acpi controller
[01:51] <mdz> thom: that stuff has been in for weeks/months too, though
[01:51] <mdz> these bug reports seem to have started rolling in about a week ago
[01:52] <thom> mmm, ubuntu9 shouldn't have made many noticeable changes
[01:52] <daniels> thom: did acpi-support change?
[01:52] <daniels> i thought we disabled powernowd on desktops
[01:53] <mroth> if so, it got re-enabled at some point
[01:53] <thom> no, we never disabled on desktops
[01:53] <lamont> mdz: I just filed comments on 5207 - dunno if we want to sync or not - I'll dig into it more tomorrow
[01:54] <lamont> (if you're not terribly averse to syncing it after reading the comments, that'd make my life much easier...)
[01:54] <mdz> daniels: powernowd is enabled on any system which supports scaling
[01:54] <mdz> which means it isn't enabled on very many desktops
[01:55] <daniels> mdz: er, most modern desktops
[01:55] <daniels> my athlonxp supported it, my a64 does
[01:55] <daniels> i believe p3s and p4s generally support it
[01:55] <mdz> lamont: what are the reverse build-deps?
[01:55] <mroth> I didn't know my P4 supported it until this week, but it did
[01:55] <thom> my amd64 doesn't, but lots and lots of desktop chips do
[01:55] <mdz> daniels: my athlon XP doesn't
[01:55] <lamont>   netpipe-mpich,libmpich1.0
[01:55] <lamont>   libpetsc2.2.0,libmpich1.0
[01:55] <lamont>   libluminate6,libmpich1.0
[01:55] <lamont>   illuminator-demo,libmpich1.0
[01:55] <lamont>   blacs-mpich-test,libmpich1.0
[01:55] <lamont>   mpich,libmpich1.0 1.2.5.3-1.1
[01:55] <mdz> my laptop is the only machine here which does
[01:56] <lamont> which is to say, not much....
[01:56] <mdz> out of 3 desktops and 2 laptops
[01:57] <mdz> mpich                                     | mpich                           | python-scientific (Build-Depend)         | Adam C. Powell, IV <hazelsct@debian.org>                                  |         1109900 |            5540
[01:57] <lamont> mdz: my desktop does scaling..
[01:57] <zenwhen> my desktop has been scaling
[01:58] <zenwhen> without my permission
[01:58] <zenwhen> :(
[01:58] <lamont> zenwhen: it just assumes that you want to save power.
[01:58] <jdub> which you do, don't you?
[01:58] <zenwhen> well it was destroying the performance of my system.
[01:58] <thom> worth disabling it for desktops, via laptop-detect in postinst?
[01:58] <jdub> or are you one of those dolphin-killing types?
[01:59] <lamont> thom: I have no issue with it being enabled on my desktoip
[01:59] <zenwhen> I dont care how may trees have to burn to make my firefox faster. >:O
[01:59] <mroth> the current scaling is too aggressive, it scales too low and then takes too long to ramp back up
[01:59] <lamont> why run at 2.4GHz when 299MHz is enough...
[01:59] <mjg59> mroth: What speed does it scale to?
[01:59] <zenwhen> It made my system very crappy
[01:59] <thom> lamont: yes, but you're used to ia64s
[01:59] <zul> hey
[01:59] <zenwhen> Now I am happy again
[01:59] <lamont> thom: heh
[01:59] <thom> they're that slow anyway
[01:59] <lamont> actually, I'm used to ENORAM
[01:59] <zenwhen> You might want to make it a little less agressive before hoary goes final
[01:59] <mroth> mjg59: my P4 3.2GHZ scales down to 400MHz
[01:59] <mjg59> If it's working on desktop CPUs, then the latency to speed up again may be increased
[02:00] <zenwhen> people are going to say ubuntu is slow
[02:00] <mjg59> mroth: Eww. Sounds like throttling rather than frequency modulation.
[02:00] <mroth> its possible.
[02:00] <mjg59> thom: We're still missing pointy-clicky ACPI enabling, right?
[02:00] <thom> mjg59: nod
[02:00] <mroth> its especially noticeable when you first go to drag a window or whatnot, and get a lot of ghosting
[02:01] <zenwhen> mroth, I am right there with you
[02:01] <zenwhen> what chip and chipset?
[02:01] <mjg59> thom: Is that something that's reasonable for final, or should we just document it in the release notes for now and think about enabling it by default in hoary+1?
[02:01] <mroth> zenwhen: intel p4 3.2 on an asus mobo
[02:01] <mjg59> On non-laptops, it might well make sense to keep the minimum speed higher
[02:01] <zenwhen> mroth, Intel 3.0Ghz P4, abit motherboard
[02:02] <mjg59> Hrm. 
[02:02] <mjg59> Actually, we should probably never be loading cpufreq-clockmod
[02:02] <mroth> yeah, on my desktop, I'd want it to be MUCH less aggresive.. only scale down after 5 minutes or inactivity, rather than a few seconds
[02:02] <zenwhen> I just disabled it
[02:02] <mjg59> Uh, p4-clockmod
[02:02] <zenwhen> :/
[02:03] <mjg59> p4-clockmod drops speed, but not frequency, so it does nothing of any great use to reduce power consumption
[02:03] <thom> oh, right
[02:03] <mdz> thom: which signatures did you add in ubuntu9?
[02:03] <mjg59> Mobile P4s ought to be using speedstep
[02:03] <mroth> ewh, thats no good then, not even reducing my power bill
[02:03] <thom> that'd do it
[02:03] <mdz> aha
[02:03] <thom>         Intel\(R\)\ Pentium\(R\)\ 4\ CPU*)
[02:03] <thom>             MODULE=p4-clockmod$EXT;;
[02:03] <mjg59> I mean speed but not power
[02:03] <mjg59> The frequency drops
[02:03] <Quarupt> Wow, you are the guys who helped make Ubuntu?
[02:03] <mjg59> And they're not designed to ramp up quickly
[02:04] <thom> mdz: permission to revert for prerelease?
[02:04] <Kamion> Quarupt: most of the developers hang out here, yeah
[02:04] <mjg59> thom: Yeah, that one probably wants dropping
[02:04] <mdz> thom: yep
[02:04] <jdub> woohoo :-)
[02:04] <mjg59> thom: Check that it does something different for mobile P4s
[02:04] <Quarupt> Well I just want o say thanks, cause Ubuntu is by far the best distro i have ever used :)
[02:04] <Kamion> you're welcome :-)
[02:05] <Quarupt> Is there anything i can do to help?
[02:05] <zenwhen> I love how accessable and friendly you devs are.
[02:05] <Quarupt> I have allready handed out over 1000 copies of Warty at my Univ
[02:05] <mdz> Quarupt: right now we are preparing for the Hoary preview release on wednesday
[02:05] <mjg59> What's the procedure for getting something added to the release notes?
[02:05] <zenwhen> getting my system to stop running like crap has made my night.
[02:05] <thom> mjg59: yes, it does
[02:05] <zenwhen> :D
[02:05] <mdz> Quarupt: and we need as much installation and live CD testing as we can get
[02:05] <mjg59> thom: Rock
[02:05] <jdub> Quarupt: watch out for ubuntu love days -> www.ubuntu.com/wiki/UbuntuLove
[02:05] <mroth> you guys need any log/config files on #7259, or is it 'nailed'? =)
[02:05] <Kamion> bug triaging and squashing if you can too; stuff >= major is generally bad
[02:06] <Quarupt> will do
[02:06] <thom> mroth: testing and uploading now
[02:06] <mjg59> Oh, argh. Lack of suspend to disk scripts on PPC.
[02:06] <Quarupt> hey who is the Kubuntu guy(s)
[02:06] <Kamion> mjg59: yeah; I thought I mentioned that to you the other day
[02:06] <zenwhen> #kubuntu-devel is the channel for the kubuntu guys
[02:07] <Kamion> mjg59: pbbuttonsd doesn't have a "suspend to disk" command in its control interface, either
[02:07] <Quarupt> cause i think there should be a sys icon for updates in Kubuntu like in gtk, if possible
[02:07] <mjg59> Kamion: Yeah - sorry, I've had no time whatsoever to do anything Ubuntu related (Gnome release stuff)
[02:07] <Kamion> mjg59: nod
[02:07] <Quarupt> oh ok
[02:07] <mjg59> Kamion: Feck. Hmm.
[02:07] <sabdfl> night all
[02:07] <mjg59> Kamion: Is there a suspend to disk button on your machine?
[02:07] <Kamion> mjg59: no separate button, but you can configure pbbuttonsd to suspend to disk on whatever actions you wnt
[02:07] <Kamion> want
[02:08] <Kamion> mjg59: well, unless you count the power button
[02:08] <mjg59> Kamion: Ah - you can do it but there's no nice UI to let you select it?
[02:08] <Kamion> mjg59: since my lid doesn't close properly, I prefer to keep the power button as s-t-r personally
[02:08] <Kamion> mjg59: well, you still need to provide /etc/power/ scripts
[02:08] <mjg59> Kamion: And s-t-r works nicely now?
[02:08] <Kamion> s-t-r works fine, yeah
[02:08] <mjg59> Kamion: Yeah. We actually basically want the x86 scripts, but with some cruft removed
[02:08] <Kamion> mjg59: elmo said the current kernel killed his display hardware by permanently turning off the fans, though
[02:09] <Kamion> so I'm a bit leery of running it permanently at the moment
[02:09] <mjg59> Wurgh. Nothing to do with me, as far as I know.
[02:09] <Kamion> dunno if it really is the kernel or just elmo's bad luck
[02:09] <mjg59> Killed killed? On his powerbook?
[02:09] <Kamion> yes, his powerbook still switches on but the display hardware is dead
[02:09] <mroth> wow, thats a frightening bug
[02:10] <mjg59> They /are/ under software control, but I'm pretty sure there's hardware sanity override
[02:10] <Kamion> he was using a second laptop as a terminal to it in Vancouver
[02:10] <Kamion> could've been unrelated, I don't really know yet
[02:10] <Quarupt> where are ya guys based, do you have any physical offices or anything?
[02:10] <Kamion> Quarupt: all over the place; most of us work from home
[02:10] <mjg59> Quarupt: This is about as close as you get
[02:10] <mroth> mjg59: I'd think so too, but now I *am* remembering reading something about something similar happening on Apple hardware under another situation where something was software controlled without a hardware sanity
[02:10] <zul> wha...what happened to elmo's laptop?
[02:11] <daniels> zul: AFAICT, display hardware is dead in the water
[02:11] <Kamion> Quarupt: (those of us employed by Canonical, that is; there are lots of community hackers too)
[02:11] <Quarupt> I love the open source community, it just has a good feel
[02:11] <daniels> internal LCD doesn't work, neither does the TMDS transmitter
[02:11] <zul> oh that really really sucks
[02:11] <mroth> was he under warranty?
[02:11] <daniels> so you're looking at GPU having burnt out or similar
[02:11] <Kamion> mroth: think so, it was newish
[02:11] <mjg59> mroth: Given that it was a replacement for one that got stolen last year, yeah
[02:11] <mroth> thats forunate
[02:11] <daniels> yeah, it was only bought in Septemberish
[02:12] <zul> daniels: well at least he is vancouver
[02:12] <mroth> fortunate even
[02:12] <mjg59> Ok, none of my patches seem to touch the code path
[02:12] <thom> ubuntu10 uploaded, clockmod not loaded
[02:12] <Kamion> elmo is vancouver? he looked smaller than that last time I saw him
[02:12] <Quarupt> Will the final Hoary installer hav an option of default window manager? If Kubuntu is stable by then?
[02:12] <thom> y'all will want to unload p4-clockmod and restart powernowd; or just reboot
[02:13] <sabdfl> Quarupt: if you install  Kubuntu, you will get KDE, Ubuntu, Gnome
[02:13] <Quarupt> or will it continue to use Gnome?
[02:13] <mroth> thom: when package hits archive i'll reboot and make sure it fixes itself by default
[02:13] <jbailey> Erp.
[02:13] <Quarupt> Oh so they are like seperate Distro's?
[02:13] <thom> mroth: cool, thanks
[02:13] <sabdfl> and you can of course switch using synaptic any time
[02:13] <jbailey> That means I used to live inside elmo.
[02:13] <sabdfl> like
[02:13] <thom> jbailey: now there's a scary thought for you
[02:14] <Quarupt> but why make a different distro just wor a different WM?
[02:14] <mdz> Quarupt: KDE and GNOME are not window managers
[02:14] <Quarupt> s/wor/for
[02:14] <Quarupt> sorry desktop enviroments
[02:14] <jdub> Quarupt: the distro itself is not hugely different, but the packages chosen for the default install and livecd are
[02:14] <Quarupt> whatever
[02:14] <mdz> there are many reasons why it makes sense to keep them separate
[02:15] <Quarupt> but the live cd is just a modified Morphix isnt it?
[02:15] <mdz> there is a lot of work which goes into integrating the system nicely with the desktop environment
[02:15] <mdz> and there isn't enough space on a single CD to fit both
[02:15] <daniels> Kamion: the evils of fast food, eh? :\ that and Krispy Kreme, I assume
[02:15] <jdub> Quarupt: doing this means we can have really incredibly cool GNOME version and really incredibly cool KDE version, both optimised for their users
[02:15] <mdz> Quarupt: the Ubuntu 4.10 live CD was based on Morphix; the Hoary live CD is a new creation
[02:15] <Quarupt> Oh
[02:15] <mjg59> Kamion: Well, I guess we'll find out whether it kills hardware in a couple of days :)
[02:15] <Quarupt> hrm, I think i will dl the new live cd, i just have the warty one
[02:15] <jdub> Quarupt: but sharing the same underlying OS, so they both benefit from enhancements underneath
[02:15] <mjg59> mako: Around?
[02:16] <Kamion> mjg59: you getting a powerbook?
[02:16] <mjg59> Kamion: No, people will be installing preview
[02:16] <daniels> mjg59: do not be tempted!
[02:16] <Quarupt> Asking all these dumb questions is just holding you guys back from your work im sorry
[02:16] <Kamion> mjg59: oh right :)
[02:16] <jdub> i dunno how to do this on our website,
[02:17] <mdz> lamont: is amarok finished churning so that you can add that dep-wait?
[02:17] <mroth> is OOo 2.0 on schedule to be out in time for someone in MOTU to sync it for hoary?
[02:17] <jdub> www.gnome.org + planet.gnome.org
[02:17] <Quarupt> This is so cool, this is why open source rules, not like i could go into #windows and talk to the actual developers
[02:17] <jdub> but i think it's pretty important
[02:17] <haggai> lamont: ping
[02:18] <thierry> seb128: How can I make a patch for ubuntu? I only know the cvs diff -up > 123456.patch command for the gnome sources...
[02:18] <Quarupt> I can't wait untill all software patents are gone
[02:18] <Quarupt> but anyways im switching back to gnome
[02:18] <zul> Quarupt: you are going to be waiting for a while
[02:18] <zenwhen> hey, is there some ETA on the ability to edit the gnome menu being added again?
[02:18] <seb128> thierry: basically the same
[02:19] <thierry> seb128: so I go in the directory and do cvs diff -up > 123456.patch ?
[02:19] <seb128> no
[02:19] <zenwhen> will Hoary release with the gnome menu still being static and unchangable by the user?
[02:19] <seb128> the package doesn't use cvs
[02:19] <jdub> zenwhen: yes
[02:19] <jdub> zenwhen: (unless you edit files in ~/.local, as per the menu spec)
[02:19] <seb128> thierry: diff between the source package and your copy modifier
[02:19] <seb128> modified
[02:19] <zenwhen> jdub, why was such a step backwards taken?
[02:20] <seb128> that discussion again ?
[02:20] <seb128> please read the list archives
[02:20] <jdub> zenwhen: menu editing was never a supported feature anyway
[02:20] <thom> please not again
[02:20] <thierry> seb128: ok... could you show me a command example of this?
[02:20] <seb128> thierry: man diff
[02:20] <zenwhen> jdub: oh well. It seems like a huge loss to me.
[02:20] <seb128> thierry: diff -ur dir1 dir2
[02:21] <Quarupt> Is there anyway i could get on some kinda list so i can get one of the first Hoary cd's when it goes final?
[02:21] <mjg59> zenwhen: I think it's recognised that it's a desirable feature. However, no workable mechanism was presented for 2.10, so it's not there. With luck, we'll have a solution for 2.12.
[02:21] <seb128> zenwhen: desktop apps provide a menu entry so that should not be needed
[02:22] <seb128> zenwhen: would be nice to have but there is no such editor for GNOME atm
[02:23] <zenwhen> I sometimes add applkications that arent installed by apt to the menu. I suppose I am not big on change that limits my ability to do things they way i am used to. I am sure I will adjust.
[02:23] <zenwhen> applications*
[02:23] <Kamion> Quarupt: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/shipit has some stuff about Hoary CDs
[02:23] <Quarupt> cool
[02:23] <Quarupt> also
[02:23] <Kamion> apt doesn't install anything to menus
[02:24] <Quarupt> can i sell Ubuntu for the exact price of a blank CD so i can keep distributing them?
[02:24] <Kamion> kind of deprecated if you got the CDs from us for free :-)
[02:24] <Quarupt> There are getting pretty popular at my Univ, one of the labs might even deploy em on some machines for testing
[02:25] <Quarupt> well yea but you guys only send me like 50 at a time
[02:25] <Kamion> but if you burn them yourself, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that; obviously check the various licensing conditions for things like the requirements on providing source
[02:25] <Quarupt> I am distrubuting almost 100 a week at my school
[02:25] <thierry> seb128: with diff -ur dir1 dir2, where is supposed to be the patch after that?
[02:25] <zenwhen> I once gave an ubuntu disk set to a girl and she fell in love with me and we had babies.
[02:26] <zenwhen> Well, I did give her a disk set.
[02:26] <Kamion> thierry: on standard output; if you want it in a file, do 'diff -ur dir1 dir2 > file'
[02:26] <Quarupt> You guys will never sell out like RH or Suse will ya?
[02:26] <zenwhen> :/
[02:26] <mdz> Quarupt: you can have as many as you can give away :-)
[02:26] <mdz> Quarupt: it is permissible to burn CDs and sell them at any price, of course
[02:26] <Quarupt> Cause i really feel like i finally found a distro with a good community that i can back 100%
[02:26] <mdz> Quarupt: but it's preferable to distribute the pressed CDs, because they have a much lower failure rate
[02:27] <lamont> haggai: amarok build kicked
[02:27] <Quarupt> true
[02:27] <jdub> Quarupt: where do you live?
[02:27] <lamont> haggai: tell me that kdebase is really already in the archive?
[02:27] <mdz> lamont: thanks
[02:27] <Quarupt> but i doubt you guys would send me over 1000 cd's a month
[02:27] <Quarupt> Washington
[02:27] <Quarupt> US
[02:27] <jdub> Quarupt: going to local LUGs is good
[02:27] <mdz> lamont: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/k/kdebase/4:3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu4/
[02:27] <Quarupt> I am a CS major at Western Washington Univ
[02:27] <mdz> lamont: it built nearly an hour ago, so I should hope so
[02:27] <lamont> haggai: saw the build failure on -ubuntu2, didn't see the amarok build finish (was just looking at main), got distracted.  my bad
[02:27] <jdub> Quarupt: plus, you could start a LoCo team
[02:27] <lamont> mdz: coolness
[02:27] <zenwhen> jdub: I am afraid I am going to have to ask you to slow development so I dont get left behind on my dialup connection.
[02:28] <jbailey> Quarupt: In Bellingham?
[02:28] <zenwhen> it is only fair
[02:28] <mroth> Quarupt: heh, I think I know someone on your network staff there
[02:28] <zenwhen> :P
[02:28] <jbailey> Quarupt: How do you find people to give 1000 CD's a month to there? =)
[02:28] <Quarupt> Yea, but i am only just now learning C and Java
[02:28] <thierry> seb128: is it normal that the .patch file I'm getting isn't looking like the .patch files I got with cvs diff -up > 123456.patch ?
[02:28] <Quarupt> I set up an open source kiosk
[02:28] <Quarupt> in the main hall
[02:28] <mdz> there aren't much more than 1000 people in Bellingham ;-)
[02:28] <seb128> thierry: what do you mean ?
[02:28] <Quarupt> with info on the open source movement
[02:28] <lamont> anything more before I run to the feed store?
[02:29] <Quarupt> Many students take 5 or 10 cd's for family and friends
[02:29] <Quarupt> we have gone to WASu Eastern even some local community colleges
[02:30] <Quarupt> We used to distribute Sarge and SID but after we found Ubuntu we switched after 2 days of testing
[02:30] <Quarupt> I wanna go down to seattle some time and set up my lil open source Kiosk
[02:30] <mjg59> Kamion: I'll look into making pbuttonsd do useful stuff for suspend to disk
[02:30] <Quarupt> Maybe even redmond, just to be ironic ;)
[02:30] <thierry> seb128, forget it, my fault...
[02:31] <Kamion> mjg59: coooooooool, thanks
[02:32] <Quarupt> Anyays guys keep up the good work, im sure you guys are on your way to making one of the most world recognized Distro's since RH
[02:33] <mjg59> Kamion: Of course, I'm hampered by not having any hardware with a pmu...
[02:33] <Quarupt> Anyone will to work with me for a lil bit to work on this prob i have been having?
[02:33] <Quarupt> jdub, maybe?
[02:33] <calc> mjg59: i have a jpeg of that oops if you are interested
[02:33] <mjg59> calc: Oh, yeah
[02:33] <mjg59> calc: URL?
[02:35] <mjg59> Kamion: http://pbbuttons.sourceforge.net/projects/powerprefs/gfx/pp-sleeplocks-o.png is the UI in question?
[02:35] <haggai> lamont: thanks
[02:38] <Kamion> mjg59: I haven't used powerprefs much ...
[02:38] <mjg59> Kamion: Is that the GUI you were talking about, or is there another one for config?
[02:40] <jdub> jdubtv! -> http://node.waugh.id.au/
[02:40] <tseng> rock!
[02:41] <tseng> connection refused
[02:41] <jdub> oh
[02:41] <jdub> jdubtv! -> http://node.waugh.id.au:8800/
[02:41] <tseng> oh i tried 8080
[02:43] <mroth> jdub: er.. what app should that be opened in?
[02:43] <tseng> totem
[02:43] <thierry> seb128, I want to make .patch for the ubuntu firefox package... any idea? The problem is that I have the source changed for ubuntu, the .diff of the changes and the orginal source... I did the changes to the ubuntu source. Now what are my two directory to make my .patch with diff? 
[02:44] <tseng> do i want to watch battlestar, or jdub dancing?
[02:44] <tseng> good jdub 
[02:44] <tseng> quite synced, id say
[02:44] <crimsun> pants, of course
[02:44] <zul> i think the answer is simple...jdub of course
[02:44] <tseng> PANTS OFF
[02:45] <seb128> thierry: I don't get what you say but basically: apt-get source package && cp package package1 && make your changes in package 1 && diff -ur package package1
[02:45] <mroth> the framerate is pretty nice
[02:46] <Kamion> mjg59: did I mention a GUI?
[02:47] <Kamion> 01:07 < Kamion> mjg59: no separate button, but you can configure pbbuttonsd to suspend to disk on whatever actions you wnt
[02:47] <mroth> jdub: what app are you using for the actual streaming?
[02:47] <Kamion> mjg59: oh, I meant in pbbuttonsd.conf. there might be a GUI, I'm not sure ...
[02:47] <thierry> seb128: ok
[02:49] <mjg59> Kamion: Ah, I see what you mean
 mjg59: pbbuttonsd doesn't have a suspend to disk command in its control interface, either
[02:49] <mjg59> Which control interface?
[02:49] <Kamion> mdz: so do you care which locale I pick to be artifically always supported in order to pull in language-{pack,support}-en
[02:49] <Kamion> mjg59: oh, I meant pbbcmd
[02:50] <Kamion>        TAG_GOTOSLEEP          command     config
[02:50] <Kamion>               Trigger sleep mode.
[02:50] <mjg59> Kamion: Ah, right
[02:50] <Kamion> that's s-t-r
[02:50] <Kamion> and it's what powermanagement-interface uses
[02:50] <Kamion> but there's no s-t-d equivalent, as far as I can see
[02:50] <mdz> Kamion: nope
[02:50] <Kamion> en_US.UTF-8 it is then
[02:50] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok, that may be fixable
[02:51] <jdub> mroth: flumotion
[02:52] <schweeb> has there been much talk of Xen in Ubuntu?  updated packages possibly?  I've been messing around with it a bit lately
[02:54] <mako> mjg59: hey dude
[02:54] <mako> mjg59: was eating dinner
[02:54] <mjg59> mako: What's the procedure for getting stuff in the release notes?
[02:54] <mako> mjg59: the release notes are being done by the docteam
[02:54] <mjg59> It would be good to note that suspend to RAM is disabled by default, how to enable it and note that it won't work everywhere
[02:55] <mako> mjg59: write up what you want in there and email it to ubuntu-doc@l.d.o i guess is the best way
[02:56] <mjg59> mako: l.d.o? Really?
[02:56] <thom> mjg59/ Kamion: what elmo said to be was basically that either s-t-r or s-t-d would work, but almost never both on the same ppc system; if you set sleep as s-t-d, tag_gotosleep will give you s-t-d 
[02:56] <mjg59> thom: Oh, bongtastic. I'll look at that.
[02:57] <thom> which is why pmi capabilities is as crack as it is
[02:57] <mjg59> I'll see if I can fix that up in pbbuttons
[02:58] <Quarupt> Hey, can anyone tell me what ports the remote desktop app use?
[02:58] <mjg59> thom: Hrm. I can't actually see any code to do that.
[02:58] <Quarupt> and why we cant choose a port
[02:58] <mjg59> GOTOSLEEP always seems to do TORAM
[02:59] <thom> huh, the docs suggest otherwise
[02:59] <thom> or, my memory of them does
[02:59] <mjg59>                case TAG_GOTOSLEEP:
[02:59] <mjg59>                         if (cfgure)     power_suspend (ACTION_TORAM);
[02:59] <Quarupt> No one seems yo know what ports i need to forward for remote desktop to work
[02:59] <mjg59> Quarupt: You're better off asking on #ubuntu
[03:00] <Quarupt> i did
[03:00] <Quarupt> I thought maybe you guys would know if they didnt
[03:00] <zul> Quarupt: or you could check google
[03:00] <zenwhen> This is more a development discussion channel
[03:00] <zenwhen> not so much tech support
[03:00] <mjg59> thom: There is code to do disk suspend in there, but no obvious way of calling it from pbcmd (or whatever)
[03:00] <Quarupt> sorry
[03:01] <zenwhen> Though many times you cna get an answer :P
[03:01] <zenwhen> can*
[03:01] <thom> huh
[03:01] <wasabi> Hmm. ANy consideration been given to EVMS support in the ubuntu installer?
[03:01] <thom> mjg59: irritating
[03:01] <mjg59> thom: That's easy enough to fix, though
[03:01] <mako> mjg59: ergh
[03:01] <mako> mjg59: you know what i mean :)
[03:02] <thom> mjg59: truth
[03:02] <thom> yes, it means i use evil and non-free software to do local resolving
[03:02] <thom> but boy does it kick ass
[03:02] <schweeb> hehe
[03:04] <Kamion> wasabi: we've talked about it, and I think it'd rock, but nobody's dedicated any time to it
[03:04] <Kamion> I'd love to have the default partitioning be LVM of some flavour
[03:04] <Kamion> there's a partman-auto-lvm package that Anton wrote in Oldenburg, but I don't know its current status
[03:08] <thierry> seb128: when I do a diff to create a patch, I get a french output at the end : Seulement dans mozilla-firefox-1.0+dfsg.1/profile/defaults: bookmarks.html~ do I keep it?
[03:08] <wasabi> Yeah. I saw the LVM support in the installer.
[03:08] <wasabi> I *love* it.
[03:08] <wasabi> it's so intelligent, how it lays out the LVM partitions, in teh same view, etc
[03:08] <seb128> thierry: as you want, it's not useful
[03:08] <wasabi> It's just got the "this was done right" feeling to it.
[03:09] <mjg59> Could someone on PPC see if http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/pb.diff builds?
[03:09] <thierry> k
[03:11] <thom> mjg59: building now
[03:14] <Kamion> wasabi_: yeah, it's nice; there are definitely internal improvements that could be made to it, and the way the "configure LVM" bit is disconnected from everything else is suboptimal, but it's a good start
[03:14] <thom> mjg59: Starting pbbuttonsd: pbbuttonsd 0.6.6: iBook/G3 PB Pismo/G4 PB Titanium (PMU version: 12)
[03:14] <thom> it even runs
[03:14] <thom> although it thinks my dual g4 desktop is a powerbook
[03:14] <mjg59> thom: Does doing pbcmd TAG_GOTODISK do anything?
[03:14] <Kamion> pbbcmd
[03:14] <thom> mjg59: can't test, not supported
[03:15] <thom> (desktop system)
[03:16] <thom> mjg59: however:
[03:16] <thom> Mar  8 02:11:01 localhost pbbuttonsd: INFO: Script '/etc/power/pmcs-pbbuttonsd suspend ac disk' launched and exited normally
[03:16] <Kamion> kick ass
[03:17] <thom> mjg59: also, fwiw the cmdline is  "pbbcmd config TAG_GOTODISK 1"
[03:19] <mjg59> thom: Rock. So we just need that patch and a script there that supports that.
[03:19] <thom> yah
[03:19] <mjg59> thom: The script probably just wants to be the x86 suspend to disk one, except without the fiddling of /sys/power/disk and without any of the video stuff
[03:20] <mjg59> mako: My post is being held for moderation - any chance of clearing it through?
[03:20] <mroth> thom: testing clean boot after update to powernowd10... looks like powernowd was not enabled at boot now
[03:21] <mroth> yep looks good
[03:21] <thom> mroth: rock, thanks for testing
[03:21] <mroth> mroth@shadowfax:~ $ sudo /etc/init.d/powernowd start
[03:21] <mroth> This processor "Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.20GHz" is known _not_ to support power-saving.
[03:21] <mroth>  * Starting powernowd...
[03:21] <mroth>  * CPU frequency scaling not supported                                   [ ok ] 
[03:21] <mako> mjg59: i'm not a moderator.. let me see if i know the password
[03:22] <mroth> thom: thanks for fixing ;-)
[03:22] <mako> mjg59: grr.. hmm.
[03:22] <mako> jdub
[03:22] <lamont> thom: what if I _want_ scaling on my desktop?
[03:23] <thierry> sent a patch to ubuntu bug 3176 (branding)... If anyone want to check
[03:23] <thierry> good night
[03:23] <jdub> mako: hmm?
[03:23] <jdub> mjg59: which list?
[03:23] <thom> lamont: set FREQDRIVER to p4-clockmod in /etc/default/powernowd
[03:24] <lamont> ok
[03:24] <mjg59> jdub: ubuntu-doc
[03:24] <mroth> based on what was said in here earlier though, p4-clockmod doesnt actually provide power savings, correct?
[03:25] <tseng> p4-clockmod actually degrades performance in some cases in my experience
[03:26] <lamont> tseng: I was partially just playing devils advocate...
[03:26] <tseng> heh
[03:27] <thom> (i was just pointing out that it's still doable)
[03:27] <lamont> tseng: see - thom knows me...
[03:28] <lamont> :-)
[03:28] <mroth> release a special "nostalgia" version of ubuntu with p4-clockmod set to a static max of 233MHz
[03:28] <mroth> for those who pine for the good ole days
[03:28] <lamont> mroth: that fast??
[03:28] <Kamion> nah, 4.77MHz
[03:28] <Kamion> Ubuntu XT
[03:28] <mjg59> mroth: It provides some power savings, but not a lot
[03:28] <mroth> heh, anything less i dont think people would get past the login screen
[03:29] <mako> jdub: ubuntu doc
[03:29] <mako> jdub: so about ubuntu-doc
[03:29] <mako> jdub: the moderator basically resigned
[03:29] <mako> jdub: from the project. not from the list (apprently)
[03:29] <mjg59> thom: Ph33r my power management skills in providing functionality on hardware I don't own
[03:29] <Kamion> heh
[03:30] <mjg59> If that could be included, it would be great. The GUI stuff probably needs updating as well, but that's not a great pain.
[03:30] <mjg59> And then it just needs the script.
[03:30] <daniels> Kamion: xt > xp
[03:30] <thom> mjg59: i'll sneak it in after preview
[03:30] <mjg59> thom: Rocking
[03:31] <mjg59> thom: Then we just need a GUI for x86...
[03:33] <mjg59> thom: Oh, suspend to disk should be supported on desktops. Dunno about SMP, though.
[03:34] <jdub> mako: uh huh
[03:34] <thom> mjg59: i think benh said that pmu support on desktop ppc was minimal to non-existant
[03:34] <mjg59> thom: suspend-to-disk doesn't use pmu
[03:34] <thom> mjg59: not at all?
[03:34] <mjg59> It's just swsusp
[03:34] <thom> huh, ok
[03:35] <mjg59> There's only a tiny amount of ppc code, the rest is platform-generic
[03:35] <mroth> my desktop has a s-t-d option on logout screen, I havent been brave enough to test it yet... should I?
[03:35] <mjg59> mroth: Give it a go
[03:35] <mroth> FOR SCIENCE!
[03:35] <mjg59> No idea what it'll do :)
[03:35] <mroth> (my uptime is really taking a beating today)
[03:35] <mjg59> Make sure that RESUME is set in /etc/mkinitrd/mkinitrd.conf
[03:35] <mjg59> If it isn't, set it and generate a new initrd (then reboot)
[03:36] <Kamion> daniels: haha
[03:36] <jdub> mako: so... who should be admin?
[03:36] <mroth> mjg59: its not currently set in mkinitrd.  which means that the logout menu probably should be hacked to not show me the s-t-d option, no?
[03:37] <mdz> thom: night
[03:37] <mdz> Kamion: night
[03:37] <mako> jdub: enrico if he wants it.. else maybe froud or trickie
[03:37] <mjg59> mroth: Probably, yeah
[03:38] <mjg59> mroth: We'll worry about that after preview :)
[03:40] <bluefoxicy> Setting up libgnome2-common (2.10.0-0ubuntu1) ...  <-- now I know four hours is too long for this.
[03:41] <bluefoxicy> (everybody knows already, just comic relief, moving on. . .)
[03:42] <mjg59> bluefoxicy: Most of the Gnome 2.10 tarballs have been uploaded
[03:43] <bluefoxicy> mjg59:  yeah it's just hanging on about 5 or 6 packages now when configuring them
[03:43] <bluefoxicy> it literally does nothing
[03:43] <bluefoxicy> but I ahve an unkillable process ATM so it may be fucked kernel state.
[03:43] <mjg59> bluefoxicy: Oh, I see what you mean
[03:43] <bluefoxicy> eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:E0:7D:78:CF:05
[03:43] <bluefoxicy>           RX bytes:3175903291 (2.9 GiB)  TX bytes:1705823287 (1.5 GiB)
[03:43] <bluefoxicy> As you can see, I don't reboot much :)
[03:43] <bob2> mjg59: having resume= on the kernel command line isn't enough?
[03:44] <lamont> WTH is nano a preferred alternative over vim??
[03:44] <mjg59> bob2: That's also adequate
[03:45] <mjg59> lamont: For non-unix people, nano is massively preferable to vim
[03:45] <lamont> mjg59: yeah, but it meant I finally had to figure out how to run update-alternatives.. :-)
[03:47] <daniels> bluefoxicy: that counter is crap anyway, it wraps too readily
[03:48] <bob2> I wrap 4gb every couple of days
[03:48] <bob2> that's not an impressive uptimometer
[03:48] <lamont>           RX bytes:9469925605 (8.8 GiB)  TX bytes:6379688640 (5.9 GiB)
[03:48] <lamont> bob2: you need bigger hardware
[03:48] <daniels> lamont: no matter what hardware you have, the TX meter won't represent ~7TB
[03:49] <macewan> upgrading to 2.10 right now for testing - 
[03:49] <bob2> lamont: haha
[03:49] <lamont> daniels: really?
[03:49] <daniels> lamont: not AFAIK
[03:49] <mjg59> Oh, man, don't say that sort of thing to lamont
[03:49] <daniels> i resorted to looking at how many bytes had passed the OUTPUT table
[03:49] <mjg59> He'll pull some hppa thing out from somewhere
[03:50] <lamont> mjg59: heh
[03:50] <daniels> as long as he gives it to me, it's all good
[03:50] <bob2> it's not a 64-bit counter on 64-bit arches?
[03:50] <bob2> that seems stupid
[03:50] <lamont> 7TB is only 7*2^40 - there's still 8 orders of magnitude left
[03:58] <bluefoxicy> reboot fixed it.
[03:59] <deeznutz> hey all... anyone got time to help me with a modprobe question?
[04:00] <lamont> Kamion: awake?
[04:02] <lamont> somehow I didn't think so
[04:02] <lamont> mdz: where does passwd.config live?
[04:02] <mdz> lamont: in the passwd package
[04:03] <lamont> doh
[04:05] <mdz> lamont: can you dep-wait amarok on kdemultimedia 4:3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu1?
[04:06] <lamont> mdz: done
[04:06] <mdz> thanks
[04:06] <lamont> _bc-py.c:8:20: Python.h: No such file or directory
[04:06] <lamont> beecrypt needs love
[04:07] <macewan> Nice work on 2.10 
[04:15] <bluefoxicy> Hi.  Can someone think up a better name than "System Health Information Terminal" for me?  I'll have a pastebin in a second.
[04:16] <macewan> S.H.I.T.?
[04:16] <tseng> hah!
[04:16] <Quarupt> lmao
[04:16] <Quarupt> its true
[04:16] <Riddell> what does Needs-Build mean in buildLogs/Lists?
[04:16] <Quarupt> call it SHIT man
[04:17] <bluefoxicy> gimme about 15-20 minutes
[04:17] <Quarupt> nono even better
[04:17] <Quarupt> "the SHIT"
[04:17] <bluefoxicy> I was looking at the smartmontools integration post and had a "better" idea on the same lines
[04:20] <Quarupt> which one of you wites all the howto's and stuff thats on the wiki page?
[04:20] <Quarupt> or is it allot of people who do it?
[04:28] <lamont> mdz: I'm planning on a postfix upload after preview, to close #2683, #6232.
[04:28] <mdz> Riddell: pretty much what it says; there is a new source version available and it needs to be built
[04:28] <mdz> afaik
[04:28] <lamont> btw, what's the process for post-preview, anyway?
[04:28] <mdz> lamont: ok
[04:28] <mdz> post-preview is going to be pretty much like FeatureFreeze, at least to start
[04:28] <mdz> we'll likely be rushing to fix new stuff that's uncovered by preview
[04:29] <lamont> ok.  then eventually it becomes "as for a blessing from mdz/jdub for every upload" I expect?
[04:29] <mdz> when we get close to the release candidate, yes, we'll be more strict
[04:29] <lamont> woot
[04:30] <mdz> Quarupt: there are a lot of people who have written howtos in the wiki
[04:30] <Quarupt> ok
[04:33] <mjg59> Uh. It turns out that it's policy for the release notes not to refer to other documentation, because it might move.
[04:36] <zul> mdz: some of the sound problems we are seeing might be if they have a slmodem isntalled as well, i need to verify it, just a theory though
[04:37] <zul> sound cards that use snd_intel8x0
[04:41] <bluefoxicy> ok
[04:41] <bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/caaUvh34.html  <-- System Health Information Terminal
[04:42] <mdz> zul: bug #2011?
[04:42] <bluefoxicy> taht's just a rough outline idea, and of course some things are obviously just "to give an idea," i.e. Ubuntu doesn't use PaX/GrSec (possibly in the future?) or supply "Firewall modules"
[04:42] <zul> mdz: 6810
[04:43] <bluefoxicy> think I should fire it at ubuntu-devel@ and see what the ML thinks?
[04:43] <mdz> zul: it shouldn't be a problem with jdthood's changes to use a higher index for that driver
[04:43] <bluefoxicy> there was talk about coding a Gnome applet or task tray thingy to give feedback based on smartmontools, so maybe a more complete attack on system health monitoring would also be good to consider
[04:44] <zul> mdz: ok just a theory though
[04:45] <zul> because i have snd_intel8x10 and i dont have a problem but i dont have a modem 
[04:49] <zul> anyways im off to bed
[04:55] <mdz> lamont: what's the expected lag time for the retry of amarok to happen, now that kdemultimedia has built?
[04:56] <mdz> lamont: does kdemultimedia need to be Installed first?
[04:56] <lamont> it will free up in the cron.daily run that installs kdemultimedia
[04:56] <lamont> (no autobuilding of accepted here...)
[04:59] <Quarupt> anyone ever tried to use wine with dreamweaver?
[05:00] <mdz> lamont: so kdemultimedia installed at :03, amarok installed at :33?
[05:00] <lamont> assuming that it builds in < 20 minutes, yes
[05:00] <mdz> (assuming it succeeds)
[05:00] <mdz> it built in less than 20m on my desktop, so I should hope so
[05:01] <lamont> installed at :03, amarok build begins < 5 min later.  must be done and signed by :29 to meet the :00 cron.hourly
[05:06] <ogra> night
[05:08] <mdz> ogra: night
[05:17] <Mithrandir> doko: ok, so ia32-libs should make a lib32gcc1 package on ia64.
[05:18] <Mithrandir> daniels: correct
[05:19] <daniels> Mithrandir: cool.  think I've got a fixed package for you.
[05:19] <Mithrandir> daniels: rock.  Can it wait for a few hours so I don't wake Karianne?
[05:19] <Mithrandir> it's 05:19 here atm, but I couldn't sleep.
[05:20] <daniels> Mithrandir: sure :)
[05:28] <fabbione> morning
[05:28] <cybrjackle> How come gnome-2.10 packages are in hoary if gnome-2.10 isn't release yet?
[05:28] <fabbione> daniels: ping
[05:29] <daniels> pong
[05:29] <fabbione> daniels: i think there is a bug in xorg 6.8.2 that is a regression on 6.8.1
[05:30] <mdz> lamont: hmm, amarok doesn't seem to be Building yet
[05:30] <fabbione> the lib that pass the video info (size) to players is broken somehow
[05:30] <lamont> cybrjackle: because hoary is taking risks...
[05:30] <lamont> mdz: grumble
[05:30] <fabbione> but i need to investigate it more
[05:30] <daniels> fabbione: libXv?
[05:31] <daniels> seems to work ok here ...
[05:31] <cybrjackle> thx lamont 
[05:31] <fabbione> daniels: can you try it on a dual head + xinerama?
[05:31] <stuNNed> thnx for your diligent work fixing teh xorg issues :D
[05:31] <fabbione> daniels: i get the problem when i go full screen with xv
[05:32] <fabbione> mplayer gets a really distorted image
[05:32] <fabbione> it is like half of the movie goes out of screen
[05:32] <fabbione> it seems like it tries to scale the movie to both heads, but plays only on one screen
[05:32] <fabbione> hence half movie
[05:33] <daniels> fabbione: oh, a Xinerama issue?
[05:33] <daniels> fabbione: not right at the moment
[05:33] <Benoni> What's a good way for a configure script to identify that it is running on Ubuntu, and to further identify the specific Ubuntu release (e.g. Hoary)?
[05:33] <daniels> but I'll check it out for you
[05:34] <lamont> mdz: Mar  8 04:05:04 buildd-mail: kdemultimedia must be manually dinstall-ed -- delayed
[05:34] <lamont> ENOEMLO
[05:34] <fabbione> daniels: just let me know if you can reproduce it
[05:34] <mdz> Benoni: /etc/lsb-release
[05:34] <daniels> fabbione: sure
[05:34] <fabbione> daniels: i think it is a combinantion actually. not only xinerama
[05:34] <lamont> er, ENOELMO, ENEW
[05:34] <thully> incidentally, it also looks like kde 3.4 is going in at the same time
[05:35] <Benoni> mdz: Sweet.  Looks like exactly what I needed.  Thanks!
[05:35] <lamont> cybrjackle: those 2.10 packages are the current release candidates, iirc.  but I really don't know.
[05:35] <Amaranth> no elmo?
[05:35] <cybrjackle> thats what i was thinking since ftp.gnome.org is still at 2.9.91
[05:36] <thully> well, one side benefit of KDE packages going in main the issues with not having a more advanced cd burning app are partially solved by having k3b there
[05:36] <mdz> lamont: I am a virtual elmo
[05:36] <lamont> mdz: that helsp
[05:36] <Amaranth> thully: kde libs have been there since warty
[05:36] <Amaranth> oh, you mean in main
[05:36] <thully> yes - in main
[05:37] <cybrjackle> What about graveman?
[05:37] <thully> isn't that universe?
[05:37] <mdz> lamont: ACCEPTed
[05:37] <thully> I looked at the newly-built set of DVD images, and it looks like they don't include KDE except for libs.  Why? 
[05:37] <lamont> mdz: through the wonders of cron.daily love, you can speed things up by 25 minutes or so...
[05:38] <mdz> thully: because we don't build Kubuntu DVDs yet
[05:38] <thully> yes, but I thought those DVDs were supposed to contain all of main
[05:38] <lamont> mdz: I thought the plan was to have the DVD's include all of main, no?
[05:39] <thully> It would be nice to have an "everything DVD" for the release, with all of main (with KDE) and a KDE/GNOME live image
[05:39] <mdz> they use the Ubuntu germinate output
[05:39] <mdz> and they are to include all of Ubuntu supported, which is not the same as main at this point
[05:40] <mdz> we'll have to figure out what this means for the DVD
[05:40] <lamont> ah, ok
[05:40] <jdub> lamont: (we get the gnome tarballs as they're released - there just hasn't been an official aggregate release yet.)
[05:40] <thully> so, so the KDE packages aren't supported?  Does that just refer to commercial support, or bug reports as well
[05:40] <lamont> jdub: ah, even better than I'd kinda thought
[05:40] <mdz> lamont: I am not going to tempt fate by messing with cron.daily
[05:41] <lamont> thully: there is Ubuntu-supported, and Kubuntu-supported
[05:41] <lamont> mdz: kubuntu livecd rootfs is b0rked, but I expect you knew that
[05:41] <mdz> lamont: no, I didn't. why?
[05:42] <mdz> lamont: can we have those logs published somewhere automagically?
[05:42] <thully> oh - well, I thought Ubuntu and Kubuntu were the same distro, just with a different selection of packages (as they share the same repos, and website)
[05:42] <mdz> thully: they are different distributions
 hmm...  find your keyboard layout by pressing some keys sounds interesting
 mine isn't in the list.  I have a canadian bilingual
[05:44] <bluefoxicy> you people actually deployed that thing in the array 6 installer?  o.O
[05:45] <jdub> bluefoxicy: that's not a particularly diplomatic or positive way to ask your question
[05:45] <bluefoxicy> jdub:  it wasn't meant to be.
[05:45] <macewan> Like the Device Manager Hardware Database thingy. Nice.
[05:45] <bluefoxicy> it was a highly opinionated comment
[05:45] <jdub> bluefoxicy: then you should probably leave, and come back when you're ready to play nice.
[05:49] <lamont> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ksvg_4%3a3.3.2-1ubuntu4_i386.deb (--unpack):
[05:49] <lamont>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/mimelnk/image/svg-xml.desktop', which is also in package kdelibs-data
[05:50] <mdz> lamont: Riddell has gone to sleep, and amu isn't awake yet
[05:51] <lamont> mdz: they're available in-LAN, but that's all right now...
[05:51] <mdz> lamont: what are?
[05:51] <mdz> oh, the los
[05:51] <lamont> I can work on making them published tomorrow
[05:51] <mdz> logs
[05:51] <lamont> build logs
[05:51] <mdz> lamont: did that run just recently?
[05:52] <lamont> http://<host>/~buildd/livecd/*ubuntu/latest/*.out :-(
[05:52] <lamont> 04:15 is the kubuntu runtime
[05:52] <lamont> is now 04:52
[05:52] <mdz> I guess it has most of the latest stuff, then
[05:52] <lamont> yeah -probably just a missing replaces or 4
[05:52] <lamont> (4 pkgs had errors)
[05:52] <mdz> KDE likes to move things around between releases
[05:53] <lamont> more fun that way, eh?
[05:53] <mdz> Riddell did upload a new kdegraphics
[05:54] <mdz> so that will probably avoid this issue and let us get a rootfs built
[05:54] <mdz> but please file a bug so they can fix it tomorrow
[05:54] <lamont> mdz: I'll file a bug with all the errors
[05:54] <lamont> been thinking...
[05:55] <mdz> once the new kdegraphics builds, we can retry it
[05:55] <mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/k/kdegraphics/4:3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu1/
[05:55] <mdz> or not
[05:55] <lamont> with all seb128's uploads today, the livecd tomorrow is going to be nearly a full download anyway...  do we want to toss amd64 to the wolves now?  (well, OK maybe not that big a change, overall...)
[05:56] <Mithrandir> lamont: thanks for the xpdf hint
[05:56] <lamont> really depends on how much the binaries changed between the two releases
[05:56] <lamont> Mithrandir: looking at that more, I don't know if it'll help... just need to s/int/long/ in those two variables...
[05:56] <lamont> but it looked like it was passing an int in a pointer, not the otherway around
[05:57] <lamont> could be something in a called lib with the same error, though
[05:57] <Mithrandir> yeah, I did the trivial fix and we'll see if that helps.
[05:57] <mdz> lamont: sure, tonight's probably as good a night as any
[05:57] <lamont> ok.  tanking away then.
[05:58] <lamont> last chance to say 'no'
[05:58] <lamont> well, ok.  it isn't really, but I don't want to have to copy it back in...
[05:59] <lamont> gone
[05:59] <lamont> (which is to say, amd64 will get a brand new, virgin rootfs image, and therefore not rsync very well at all tomorrow.)
[06:00] <Mithrandir> lamont: let them burn, poor amd64 users.  Or something.  A clean rootfs would be nice for preview anyhow.
[06:00] <lamont> yeah
[06:00] <lamont> Mithrandir: if you want both worlds, get me a working partimage :-)
[06:01] <Mithrandir> I guess that goes in the "nontrivial to fix" category?
[06:01] <lamont> uh, yeah
[06:01] <lamont> partimage believes in sizeof(long)==sizeof(ptr)==4, quite strongly
 it says ./dists/hoary/main/binary-i386/Packages failed the MD5 checksum
[06:02] <bluefoxicy> whoever invented CD-Rs needs to be shot with the intar
[06:02] <lamont> mdz: you want that filed against livecd? I assume?
[06:03] <mdz> lamont: no, against the package at fault
[06:03] <Mithrandir> lamont: you can use the 32 bit version for making the fs, though that's horribly ugly.
[06:03] <lamont> mdz: right
[06:03] <mdz> it'll break for upgraders too, I assume
[06:03] <bluefoxicy> wyh are cd-rs so fragile, and is there a way to deal with this error
[06:03] <lamont> Mithrandir: I'm not going to create a while i386 chroot on the beast just to do that
[06:03] <lamont> bluefoxicy: slower speed?
[06:03] <Mithrandir> lamont: understandably.
[06:04] <mdz> GAH, amarok failed again
[06:04] <bluefoxicy> lamont:  it was already burned at 1x
[06:04] <mdz> ah, it got the old kdemultimedia again
[06:04] <lamont> mdz: pay no attention to amarok for a minute
[06:04] <bluefoxicy> lamont:  also the only system iwth a CD R there is now blank and needs to be installed
[06:04] <bluefoxicy> no CDs can be burned until then.
[06:04] <mdz> amarok is what I am waiting for so that I can bring it into main and update kubuntu-meta
[06:05] <lamont> yeah - I made an assumption about kdemultimedia and gave it back manually right before I figured out ==NEW
[06:05] <lamont> is now building on all 3
[06:05] <lamont> err, 4
[06:06] <Mithrandir> lamont: does the problem show while building or when running?
[06:07] <bluefoxicy> so there's no way to install and ignore all MD5 sum failures?
[06:08] <mdz> fabbione: how is sparc doing with the backlog? :-)
[06:08] <fabbione> mdz: it is catching up. already done libc6. it is munging gcc3.4 and gcc4.0 is next
[06:08] <fabbione> mdz: already manually unrolled the libhowl problem
[06:08] <lamont> Mithrandir: was a user complaint that sometimes it failed while he was running it
[06:09] <fabbione> mdz: it will take a few days to really catch up on everything :(
[06:09] <lamont> mdz: it didn't help that about 3 other packages were dep-wait kdemultimedia, it seems
[06:09] <mdz> fabbione: if you could arrange for ubuntu-meta to be built soon, that would help
[06:09] <fabbione> mdz: sure i can
[06:09] <Mithrandir> lamont: do you have a command line invocation for the beast?
[06:10] <mdz> thanks
[06:10] <lamont> Mithrandir: xpdf {filename}
[06:10] <fabbione> mdz: if there is more just tell me because gcc takes ages to build here
[06:11] <fabbione> does debhelper have any option to show only udebs from a control file?
[06:11] <Mithrandir> lamont: no, the partimage stuff.
[06:11] <fabbione> ala dh_listpackages ?
[06:11] <Mithrandir> fabbione: no, because there is no flag in debian/control saying "this is a udeb"
[06:11] <lamont> oh. partimage.
[06:12] <lamont> hard coded check in the build is the first failure.
[06:12] <lamont> defeating that only leads to pain and suffering
[06:12] <Mithrandir> lamont: builds fine on my amd64 here.
[06:12] <lamont> ah, run it.
[06:12] <lamont> with any args, iirc.
[06:12] <Mithrandir> ah
[06:13] <fabbione> Mithrandir: what about the XC-Package-Type: udeb
[06:13] <Mithrandir> it's a start
[06:13] <fabbione> ?
[06:13] <Mithrandir> fabbione: new-fangled stuff. :)
[06:13] <lamont> partimage -b -z0 --nodesc -f3 -c -o -y save $DEV partimg-${IMGNAME}
[06:13] <lamont> where dev is /dev/hda5 or whatever, and parimg-${IMGNAME} is some file name
[06:13] <Mithrandir> yup, thanks
[06:14] <thully> mdz: one little question concerning Kubuntu/Ubuntu relation - if you run both GNOME and KDE, is that a valid bug reporting platform?  I wonder what distribution that would be, *[Uu] buntu, maybe?   :)
[06:16] <fabbione> mdz: ubuntu-meta uploaded. anything else i need to do manually?
[06:21] <lamont> mdz: actually, these fails-to-install bugs are in a virgin install...  so it's not really a replaces' thing after all... :-(
[06:21] <lamont> Mithrandir: what's taht?
[06:21] <Mithrandir> lamont: redefining DWORD to be int
[06:21] <lamont> yeah
[06:21] <lamont> tried that
[06:21] <Mithrandir> blows up in interesting ways?
[06:21] <lamont> uh, yeah.  iirc
[06:22] <Mithrandir> people using DWORD and shit in their code should be kicked in the nuts.
[06:22] <Mithrandir> (IMVHO)
[06:22] <lamont> it likes to cast DWORD -> pointer, iirc.
[06:22] <Mithrandir> argh
[06:22] <Mithrandir> this is C++, why does it do all that kind of stuff?
[06:22] <lamont> yeah - it's an amusing build log if you do the redefine...
[06:22] <Mithrandir> I can see that..
[06:22] <Mithrandir> compiling now.
[06:23] <lamont> C++ does not force good coding.  it merely makes it easier to deal with if you _do_ write good code.
[06:23] <Mithrandir> it might just be work to fix that, though.
[06:23] <lamont> sadly, many places believe the reverse of that
[06:23] <Mithrandir> I don't like C++, but it does actually give you some decent tools to write applications instead of fiddling bits, which is what you very easily end up with C.
[06:23] <Mithrandir> s/end up/& doing/
[06:24] <lamont> yeah, guess so.,
[06:24] <Mithrandir> C is just the wrong language for a lot of the stuff people are using it for.
[06:24] <lamont> +../../../../amarok/src/plugin/libplugin.la -lkdecore -lakode 
[06:24] <lamont> grep: /usr/lib/libltdl.la: No such file or directory
[06:24] <lamont> /bin/sed: can't read /usr/lib/libltdl.la: No such file or directory
[06:24] <lamont> sorry mdz
[06:25] <lamont> mdz: that's with the new kdemultimedia
[06:32] <Mithrandir> ew, partimage has BEGIN; and RETURN; as part of different methods and stuff.
[06:44] <mdz> lamont: kdegraphics is busticated, too
[06:44] <lamont> ah, I see..
[06:44] <mdz> looks like amu will have work to do when he wakes up
[06:45] <crimsun> sound-juicer eventually hardlocks my machine, and it appears to be sg-related
[06:47] <crimsun> eh, wtf. I meant gnome-cd, not sound-juicer.
[06:48] <fabbione> anybody up for reviewing a couple of patches? (kernel and kernel-wedge related)
[06:48] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/k-w.diff <- kernel wedge
[06:48] <daniels> lamont: needs libltdl-dev
[06:49] <fabbione> the patch is harmless and it does not break backward compatibility
[06:49] <fabbione> it allows the kernel to export the pkgfilterlist env var to limit the list of packages to process
[06:50] <fabbione> like the ones that ends in -di ;)
[06:50] <fabbione> casually.. they match the udebs we need to process, skipping the others
[06:51] <fabbione> the other patch is a change to the kernel debian/rules to export such env var
[06:52] <mdz> can anyone give me the 60-second tutorial on how to add a patch to a package which uses cdbs simple-patchsys?
[06:52] <mvo> mdz: cdbs-edit-patch should do with recent cdbs
[06:52] <Treenaks> cdbs-edit-patch?
[06:52] <Treenaks> hmm.. mvo is faster..
[06:52] <Treenaks> *needcoffee*
[06:53] <mdz> there are some patches in debian/patches, and some in debian/patches/common
[06:53] <mdz> which one will cdbs-edit-patch act on?
[06:53] <mvo> mdz: probably debian/patches
[06:54] <mdz> I don't understand the difference between that and /common/
[06:54] <mvo> mdz: what packages is that? I haven't seen such a layout yet
[06:54] <mdz> DEB_PATCHDIRS := debian/patches/common debian/patches
[06:55] <mdz> kdegraphics
[07:01] <froud> mvo: good morning. 
[07:01] <froud> mvo guten morgen
[07:01] <mvo> hey froud! any luck with svn?
[07:02] <mvo> froud: guten morgen, man spricht deutsch ;)
[07:03] <froud> mvo: nien!!! Mithario still has not sorted out his svn problem and frankly I want to complete the update-manager manual. I am not waiting for him any longer. please email me your changes and I will email the file back to you when I am finished
[07:07] <mvo> froud: :( it's a very unfortunate situation. I'll send you the update-manager.xml file from trunk and will merge it back to svn. let's hope we find a solution quickly :/
[07:07] <froud> mvo: it's not the best way to work, but at least if we can shuttle the document between us and you can do the commits it will be better than full-gas in neutral
[07:08] <froud> mvo: thank
[07:08] <froud> mvo: danke schurn
[07:08] <mvo> froud: I need to look over the comments again, give me ~30minutes
[07:09] <mvo> froud: my comments are in "<!-- mvo:"
[07:09] <mvo> style comments
[07:12] <Mithrandir> if I understand correctly, the usplash stuff would have to go in the initrd, right?  So using C++ there is something we _really_ don't want, unless we want libstdc++ and friends in the initrd?
[07:27] <Quarupt> man, the usb thumb drive you guys put together is so fool proof, and faster than windows great job
[07:28] <Quarupt> usb thumb drive integration *
[07:39] <fabbione> mdz: do i have green light to upload kernel-wedge with that change?
[07:39] <fabbione> (lamont agress that it is the less intrusive change at 4 weeks from release)
[07:40] <fabbione> it is not essential for preview, but it will give us time to have it propagated and test the other fixes to the kernel build system
[07:47] <Mithrandir> yay:
[07:47] <Mithrandir> dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=no.err.tpbd /no/err/tpbd/tpbd no.err.tpbd.key_state_get string:thinklight
[07:47] <Mithrandir> method return; sender=:1.31
[07:47] <Mithrandir> boolean:false
[07:47] <Mithrandir>  dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=no.err.tpbd /no/err/tpbd/tpbd no.err.tpbd.key_state_get string:thinklight
[07:47] <Mithrandir> method return; sender=:1.31
[07:47] <Mithrandir> boolean:true
[07:56] <mdz> fabbione: if it is not essential for preview, please wait until after preview
[07:57] <fabbione> mdz: sure.. no problem at all
[07:57] <mdz> we will not build a new kernel untitl then anyway
[07:57] <fabbione> not at distro level, but it will help me having it in the different chroots for test build on all arches
[07:58] <fabbione> since there are a few tweaks that needs to be done here and there
[07:58] <mdz> need sleep, good night
[07:58] <fabbione> good night
[08:02] <sabdfl> morning all
[08:02] <froud> mvo: thanks got it
[08:03] <Mithrandir> good morning, o' glorious leader.
[08:03] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: steady on there, big guy :-)
[08:03] <fabbione> morning sabdfl 
[08:04] <sabdfl> fabbione: ! settling back?
[08:04] <sabdfl> got to head out now, back later
[08:04] <fabbione> sabdfl: already rocking 100%
[08:04] <sabdfl> and the last 10%?
[08:04] <fabbione> sabdfl: coming up today...
[08:04] <fabbione> i had to get over the jetlag :(
[08:08] <sabdfl> interview this morning on CNN, will try and plug FREE SOFTWARE
[08:08] <sabdfl> cheers
[08:08] <fabbione> good luck sabdfl 
[08:08] <Mithrandir> oh, cool.
[08:09] <daniels> sabdfl: enjoy
[08:09] <pitti> Morning
[08:09] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:09] <Mithrandir> it would be nice to get it a copy of that
[08:09] <pitti> daniels: hey
[08:09] <daniels> pitti: hey dude :)
[08:09] <pitti> daniels: do you think we can solve the X keyboard problem today?
[08:09] <daniels> pitti: let me get those two for you
[08:09] <pitti> daniels: (didn't read my mails yet)
[08:11] <daniels> pitti: the german thing?  i'm not really sure, to be honest, but I'll have a look
[08:12] <pitti> daniels: do you think this is German-specific?
[08:13] <pitti> daniels: setting PC104/U.S. seems like a general fallback
[08:13] <pitti> daniels: and your detection script almost got it right
[08:13] <daniels> Mithrandir: xorg 6.8.2-3 builds are spinning on concordia, davis, halley and my laptop; grab xserver-xorg, xorg-common and xserver-common for amd64 when concordia's finished (I'll ping you if I notice first) and your upgrade issues should be solved
[08:13] <daniels> Mithrandir: I'd upload mine, but xserver-xorg is 50MB
[08:13] <pitti> daniels: I'm currently booting the live cd, shall I try another language?
[08:13] <pitti> daniels: btw, if you build another X, please think about CAN-2005-0605
[08:14] <daniels> pitti: have to work out why the German thing is happening
[08:14] <daniels> pitti: yeah, working on that too
[08:14] <daniels> stupid xpm
[08:15] <pitti> daniels: didn't the script debug output help?
[08:15] <pitti> daniels: I don't know which thing is writing the wrong values into xorg.conf
[08:18] <pitti> daniels: shall I boot with another language?
[08:19] <daniels> pitti: the script debug output confused me -- it *should* be working
[08:19] <daniels> i'll look into it today though
[08:19] <pitti> okay, thanks
[08:19] <pitti> daniels: I currently download the current live cd, then we can test again with the latest crack
[08:19] <fabbione> daniels: an ati radeon 7500 is any good?
[08:19] <Mithrandir> daniels: nice
[08:19] <daniels> pitti: cool
[08:20] <daniels> fabbione: good, no.  useful to me, yes. :)
[08:20] <daniels> fabbione: i mean, it works, and it will do basic 3d stuff
[08:20] <daniels> but not games
[08:20] <fabbione> i don't need 3d
[08:20] <daniels> very well supported under xorg
[08:20] <fabbione> only 2D
[08:20] <daniels> ah cool
[08:20] <daniels> then it's fine
[08:20] <jdub> hrrm
[08:21] <fabbione> daniels: do you know if it has dual head or tv out capabilities?
[08:22] <daniels> fabbione: in some cards, yes
[08:22] <daniels> fabbione: people kept making radeon 7500s for pci very late, so if you get a newer pci 7500, it should have both of those things
[08:22] <daniels> jdub: :\
[08:23] <fabbione> daniels: well i will check what i get if i get it
[08:23] <daniels> fabbione: cool
[08:23] <daniels> fabbione: i have a whole bunch of radeons here, all served me very well
[08:24] <fabbione> daniels: good
[08:24] <daniels> fabbione: 7500 (pci -- i think; it's coming), 8500 (agp), 9000 (agp), 9200 (agp), x300 se (pcie), and x850 xt pe (pcie)
[08:24] <daniels> all good cards
[08:25] <fabbione> good to know
[08:25] <Mithrandir> is the x300 and x850 possible to use with free drivers?
[08:27] <fabbione> HMMMMM
[08:28] <fabbione> dist-upgrade of multiseat went really wrong
[08:31] <daniels> fabbione: oh?
[08:31] <daniels> Mithrandir: 3d, no
[08:31] <fabbione> daniels: (EE) Generic Keyboard 3: cannot register with evdev brain
[08:31] <fabbione> that's the X changes to the config
[08:31] <Mithrandir> daniels: suckage.  I'll stay with my 8500, then
[08:31] <fabbione> (EE) Configured Mouse 3: cannot register with evdev brain
[08:31] <daniels> fabbione: how would X be writing out 3 config files, then?
[08:31] <daniels> Mithrandir: good plan
[08:32] <daniels> fabbione: er, 3 input devices ... make that 4, if we're zero-based :)
[08:32] <fabbione> daniels: these are inside the layouts
[08:32] <fabbione> it was starting before
[08:32] <fabbione> now it doesn't :-)
[08:32] <Mithrandir> daniels: problem is, once I switch mainboard, I probably won't have AGP any more
[08:33] <daniels> fabbione: right, which means it's either PCI or PCIE
[08:34] <daniels> s/fabbione/Mithrandir/
[08:34] <daniels> fabbione: OH
[08:34] <daniels> fabbione: s/Device/Dev Device/ in the config file
[08:34] <daniels> fabbione: the config file *parser* fills in /dev/psaux if Device is empty
[08:34] <fabbione> it doesn't start even with the old config
[08:34] <fabbione> BAH
[08:34] <daniels> fabbione: so you couldn't specify Dev Phys/Dev Name and not a device :\
[08:35] <fabbione> jeee it was working like a charm before
[08:35] <pitti> Kamion, mdz: here?
[08:38] <fabbione> daniels: but why did you change Device -> Dev Device?
[08:40] <daniels> fabbione: because Device was always filled in
[08:40] <daniels> fabbione: if you didn't want to specify it, it would get filled with /dev/psaux
[08:40] <daniels> because the config file parser is crap
[08:40] <fabbione> it was never empty with the old config
[08:40] <daniels> so you'd be listening for events on a non-evdev device
[08:40] <fabbione> becuase we were using Device to point to /dev/multiseat/<device>
[08:41] <daniels> right, but remember I was telling you about how the devices didn't get registered with the old setup?
[08:41] <daniels> neither me nor gus ever got a full set of mice
[08:41] <fabbione> yes but you basically killed keyboard and mouse hotplug
[08:41] <fabbione> that is just plain wrong
[08:41] <fabbione> becuase X doesn't understand regexps
[08:41] <daniels> i know, but it was either have it all working with no hotplug, or have half of it working with hotplug
[08:42] <daniels> err ... you do know that the evdev driver does take and evaluate regexps, right?
[08:42] <daniels> for Dev Phys
[08:42] <fabbione> well the new config doesn't start 2 heads out of 4 here
[08:42] <daniels> have a look at xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/os-support/linux/lnx_evdev.c
[08:42] <daniels> ok, what's the error?
[08:43] <fabbione> (WW) Option "Dev Phys" requires an string value
[08:43] <fabbione> (EE) Generic Keyboard 3: cannot register with evdev brain
[08:43] <fabbione> (WW) Option "Dev Phys" requires an string value
[08:43] <fabbione> (EE) Configured Mouse 3: cannot register with evdev brain
[08:43] <daniels> i'm willing to solve any problems -- and I know that hotplug needs to be solved -- but this is the only thing that was even close to working for me and gus
[08:43] <daniels> and what's the Dev Phys option there now?
[08:43] <fabbione>         Option          "Dev Phys"              ""
[08:44] <fabbione> the other config seems ok, but it doesn't start
[08:45] <fabbione> the last head is missing the PCI id too
[08:47] <pitti> yay, hal 0.5.0
[08:47] <pitti> (just kidding)
[08:48] <daniels> hmmm
[08:48] <fabbione> this is weird
[08:49] <daniels> ok, looks like the $agp* stuff is broken
[08:49] <daniels> can you please run multiseat-configurator with sh -x and email me the output?
[08:49] <fabbione> Layout0 starts, but it doesn't display anything
[08:49] <fabbione> daniels: you can ssh to cerberus :-)
[08:50] <torkel> pitti: together with dbus 0.31? :-)
[08:50] <fabbione> daniels: you also have sudo access
[08:50] <pitti> torkel: yes; however, all hoary+1 crack (but goood crack)
[08:50] <pitti> torkel: this should finally get rid of hanging hal processes on USB races
[08:51] <torkel> ah
[08:51] <pitti> torkel: also it supports unified ACPI/APM/PMU power management
[08:51] <pitti> and lots of other stuff
[08:52] <torkel> pitti: I look forward to try it :-)
[08:53] <daniels> OH, I see, crap
[08:53] <daniels> fabbione: you have both 1:0:0 and 5:4:0
[08:54] <fabbione> 1:0:0 is the AGP
[08:54] <fabbione> the others are PCI
[08:54] <daniels> yeah
[08:54] <daniels> i'll install multiseat 0.9.5, which has pcibustype integrated
[09:03] <daniels> fabbione: try that
[09:04] <fabbione> multiseat-configurator only?
[09:04] <daniels> already configured, gdm should work now if you restart it tho
[09:05] <fabbione> nice
[09:06] <fabbione> it did hang very hard
[09:06] <fabbione> initializing the AGP card as last
[09:06] <daniels> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[09:06] <daniels> is that the primary display?
[09:07] <daniels> gotta grab dinner, brb
[09:07] <fabbione> yes it is
[09:07] <fabbione> ok
[09:26] <daniels> hmmm
[09:26] <daniels> try putting the primary display first?
[09:27] <fabbione> i am testing...
[09:28] <doko> fabbione: do you plan a kernel upload before the preview release?
[09:29] <fabbione> doko: no
[09:29] <doko> ok, could you have a look at http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2005-March/000086.html?
[09:30] <fabbione> is that the mISDN stuff?
[09:31] <fabbione> doko: i have no problems with it
[09:32] <doko> no, that is just a dependency package. ok. I'm uploading it.
[09:32] <fabbione> after preview please
[09:32] <fabbione> otherwise you need to get mdz, jdub greenlight
[09:33] <doko> fabbione: yes, I'll ask, or else, the now existing drivers won't work, if the firmware is missing
[09:34] <doko> the mISDN stuff should be enabled after the preview, disabled the avmfritz portion, verified that it works with the hfcpci driver
[09:35] <fabbione> doko: i am not too happy about mISDN
[09:35] <fabbione> upstream has been inactive for too long
[09:37] <doko> well, the snapshot is dated 20050225, but I didn't monitor their activity ...
[09:38] <fabbione> doko: it was removed because upstream didn't update in months
[09:38] <fabbione> and i am not happy at all to readd it
[09:38] <fabbione> specially if they are going to disappear again
[09:39] <fabbione> daniels: starting Layout3 as first crash the machine in a more interesting way
[09:39] <fabbione> it starts the server
[09:39] <fabbione> and as soon as the gdm login appears, X crashes and the machine hangs
[09:39] <daniels> hmmmm
[09:40] <dholbach> goooood morning
[09:41] <doko> smurfix: ping
[09:42] <smurfix> doko: 
[09:43] <Treenaks> morning sabdfl
[09:44] <sabdfl> hiya Treenaks
[10:16] <sabdfl> haggai: around?
[10:18] <opi> hi sabdfl 
[10:26] <sabdfl> hi opi
[10:43] <mvo> Mithrandir: around?
[10:45] <jordi> mvo: I'm first on the queue dude :)
[10:47] <mvo> jordi: hrm, crap :)
[10:56] <jordi> Simira would be helpful too.
[10:57] <jordi> Where are the Norwegians today...
[10:59] <mvo> jordi: Mithrandir was around when I got up at 6 in the morning. not sure if the was still up or got up even earlier :)
[11:02] <jordi> mvo: dude
[11:02] <jordi> mvo: we're bashing synaptic right now
[11:03] <jordi> mpt_london has introduced me to this fine sport
[11:03] <jordi> mvo: I'm looking for translation errors, and I see a few issues in prefs
[11:04] <mvo> jordi: be nice and gentle to synaptic. it dosn't like to be hurt!
[11:04] <mvo> jordi: why is mpt_london bashing synaptic?
[11:04] <mvo> and don't forgot to send me the translation errors :)
[11:04] <jordi> There's missing mnemonics in "Distribution", "Network"
[11:05] <jordi> mvo: he's doing usability reviews :)
[11:05] <jordi> he went to ubuntu bugzilla to file a bug, but it was already there
[11:05] <jordi> oh well. :)
[11:05] <jordi> oh
[11:05] <jordi> colors also lacks mnemonics
[11:06] <jordi> and the checkboxes in fonts
[11:06] <crimsun> I have a Build-Depends question: if a package wants calls autoheader for some strange reason, should I add the relevant packages to debian/control:Build-Depends? I remember this is strongly frowned upon...
[11:06] <jordi> hmm, actually in all the taabs some mnemonics are missing
[11:06] <crimsun> s/wants//g
[11:06] <jordi> Why is there Apply, Ok and Cancel?
[11:08] <jordi> mvo: I keep wondering if I should get svn access at some point.
[11:08] <jordi> If you trust me, etc. :)
[11:08] <mvo> jordi: there is a bug about missing mnemonics? what bug number? 
[11:09] <jordi> mvo: no, that's my IRC bug. mpt_london was about synaptic complaining about something neeeding root, instead of prompting for the root passwd I think
[11:09] <mpt_london> I don't think it's a synaptic bug in particular
[11:10] <mpt_london> When I run synaptic directly, I get prompted for a password, which is good
[11:10] <mvo> jordi, mpt_london: aha, ok
[11:10] <mpt_london> But when I select a package and try to "Open With..." synaptic, I get an error complaining that I'm not "root"
[11:11] <mvo> jordi: feel free to file a bug or send a patch about the missing mnemonics. I simply overlooked that :/
[11:11] <mvo> mpt_london: direct install of deb packages is not supported by apt and therefore not by synaptic unfortunately
[11:12] <mpt_london> mvo: Well yes, but that's a separate bug <https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2706>
[11:12] <mvo> (and it's something I not encourage :)
[11:12] <jordi> mvo: yup, I pointed him at gdeb for now
[11:12] <jordi> but it's not installable in ubuntu
[11:12] <jordi> needs recompile I guess
[11:12] <mpt_london> Oh, the hilarity
[11:13] <mvo> mpt_london: look at the debian bugnumer that is linked in the ubuntu bugreport and check the age ;)
[11:14] <mpt_london> mvo: Let's package like it's 1999!
[11:15] <mvo> mpt_london: no, don't get me wrong. I just wanted to say that it's tricky to solve that problem, not that we shouldn't solve it
[11:15] <mpt_london> sure
[11:16] <jordi> mvo: hmm, I guess there's a reason for not us using the gnome-wide proxy sdettings, righgt?
[11:16] <jordi> mostly because it's not your gconf settings that matter, but root's?
[11:16] <mvo> jordi: exactly, the reason is that synaptic runs as root 
[11:17] <mvo> it would need a architecual redesign and a lot of testing to change that
[11:17] <jordi> nod
[11:17] <pitti> daniels: time for an USN review?
[11:17] <jordi> just having the option for setups with mandatory gconf keys wouldn't be too cool
[11:18] <mvo> jordi: mandatory gconf keys?
[11:18] <jordi> for proxy settings
[11:18] <jordi> in /etc/gconf
[11:18] <Kamion> pitti: yes?
[11:19] <Kamion> lamont: still around?
[11:19] <pitti> Kamion: I'd like to build current langpack updates right before the preview tomorrow, but this needs some coordination
[11:19] <jordi> mvo: ok, I have a small update for some glaring Catalan errors in prefs
[11:19] <pitti> Kamion: when would be a good time for it?
[11:19] <pitti> Kamion: i. e. after all other uploads, but before building CD images
[11:20] <mvo> jordi: so for that I just connect to gconf as root? that sounds like it's usefull
[11:20] <jordi> mvo: try running gconf-editor as root
[11:20] <jordi> you'll get the mandatory menu item activated
[11:21] <jordi> whatever you set there, it will be immutable for all users.
[11:21] <daniels> pitti: s/caches/the cache/
[11:21] <Treenaks> jordi: ooh.. multi-user huge-office type stuff :)
[11:22] <mvo> jordi: very nice! is this a new feature?
[11:22] <jordi> yeah. You can play "I'm the bastard" games with that.
[11:22] <pitti> daniels: thanks
[11:22] <Treenaks> jordi: *clickety* *click*
[11:22] <jordi> mvo: 2.8 iirc
[11:23] <jordi> little daniel!
[11:23] <daniels> little hordi!
[11:23] <jordi> daniels: you should have come to harrods with me. It was fun.
[11:23] <daniels> jordi: haha
[11:23] <daniels> jordi: i read about it
[11:23] <pitti> daniels: still wrong keyboard with current live cd :-(
[11:23] <mvo> jordi: I created #7314 about the gconf stuff
[11:23] <daniels> pitti: bleh
[11:24] <jordi> there was more about it, but I wanted to sleep. Dude, everything is carpeted, and there's not a single carpet that isn't totally horrific
[11:24] <jordi> mvo: lemme read
[11:24] <jordi> mvo: oh
[11:25] <jordi> well, the mandatory stuff in gconf has been there since the early days
[11:25] <mvo> jordi: beef it up if you want :)
[11:25] <jordi> gconf-editor gave it ui recently
[11:25] <mvo> jordi: aha
[11:26] <jordi> muuh.
[11:26] <jordi> what's my bugzilla passwd now..
[11:26] <Treenaks> jordi: "ken sent me"
[11:27] <jordi> actually, both pass and email were wrong
[11:29] <Mithrandir> mvo: pong
[11:30] <daniels> Mithrandir: packages are on concordia whenever you're ready
[11:30] <Mithrandir> daniels: cool, thanks.
[11:30] <Mithrandir> seems like I don
[11:30] <Mithrandir> 't have an account on her, though
[11:32] <Kamion> pitti: TBH I really don't know what time everything else will be finished yet
[11:32] <fabbione> hey Kamion 
[11:32] <pitti> Kamion: okay, so this will be coordinated on the fly? :-)
[11:32] <Kamion> pitti: there may well be last-minute uploads right up to the wire
[11:32] <pitti> Kamion: as long as they don't change translations, I don't care
[11:33] <Kamion> pitti: that's the best I can do so far :) tomorrow lunchtime or so would probably work, I guess
[11:33] <Kamion> fabbione: morning
[11:33] <pitti> Kamion: I'm more concerned about the new gnome stuff, where translations really make a difference
[11:33] <Kamion> yeah
[11:33] <fabbione> Kamion: i think i got the kernel-wedge check || true thingy solved and lamont agrees with the fix. I would like also your opinion on it
[11:34] <Kamion> fabbione: ok
[11:34] <fabbione> Kamion: basically the root of the problem is dh_listfiles since it doesn't know how to list only udebs
[11:34] <fabbione> but that's a more general problem since the special entry for debian/control has been introduced only recently (if i understood correctly Mith)
[11:35] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[11:35] <fabbione> so something that works is to filter the file list the kernel-wedge check will check
[11:35] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/k-w.diff
[11:35] <fabbione> Kamion: this is the diff
[11:35] <fabbione> and it does not break backward compatibility
[11:36] <seb128> hey pitti 
[11:36] <fabbione> or normal debian builds
[11:36] <fabbione> Kamion: with the difference that i can export an env var in the ubuntu kernel build
[11:36] <fabbione> to get only the list of udebs that kernel-wedge should check
[11:36] <fabbione> in our case the env var is set to "di"
[11:37] <fabbione> that matches all the Packages with -di (our udebs)
[11:37] <fabbione> it is the less introsive change i could think
[11:37] <fabbione> but better options are welcome
[11:37] <fabbione> (none of this will be uploaded before preview)
[11:37] <seb128> pitti: g-v-m 1.2.0, you are going to package it or it's for me ? That's probably a translation update tarball
[11:38] <pitti> seb128: I can do it if you want
[11:38] <pitti> seb128: I might know the quirks of it better
[11:38] <seb128> yeah, please :)
[11:38] <pitti> seb128: I will coordinate with Kamion, I'll built last-minute langpack updates right before the preview tomorrow
[11:38] <seb128> pitti: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-volume-manager/1.2/gnome-volume-manager-1.2.0.tar.gz
[11:39] <seb128> k
[11:40] <Kamion> fabbione: mm, looks odd. externally supplied environment variables should be in ALL CAPS, I think.
[11:41] <Kamion> fabbione: kernel-wedge is responsible for adding the -di suffix itself; why not just hardcode that in check?
[11:41] <Kamion> I think I'd find that neater
[11:43] <fabbione> Kamion: i did hardcoded it in the beginning and removed it later :-)
[11:43] <fabbione> but if you think that hardcoding it is ok, it is fine with me
[11:44] <Kamion> yeah, I think it's ok
[11:45] <fabbione> ok
[11:45] <fabbione> testing now
[11:47] <daniels> heheh
[11:52] <dholbach> hi seb128 
[11:52] <seb128> morning
[11:54] <Walker> www.otomotivshow.com
[12:13] <trukulo> hi
[12:15] <haggai> sabdfl: here
[12:16] <thom> fabbione: (aka the kernel team, but YKWIM); can you look at #7121? 
[12:17] <pitti> carlos: FYI, translation tarballs are flowing (I'm rebuilding the relevant main packages)
[12:17] <carlos> pitti: cool, thanks
[12:20] <zenwhen> hey
[12:21] <zenwhen> I am trying to instal k3b in hoary
[12:21] <zenwhen> i get this error
[12:21] <zenwhen> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/kcontrol_40x1.ad1500000004ep-8893.3.2-1ubuntu7_i386.deb:  trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/kcmshell', which is also in package kdelibs-bin
[12:21] <crimsun> ...huh?
[12:22] <daniels> what *is* that version??
[12:22] <zenwhen> kcontrol cant be installed
[12:22] <crimsun> that has to be the most screwed version I've ever seen
[12:22] <zenwhen> because it is trying to write something that is alrready in kdelibs
[12:22] <Treenaks> daniels: format string bug?
[12:22] <zenwhen> its what was in the repo
[12:22] <zenwhen> hoary
[12:22] <trukulo> zenrox, are you using external sources or only hoary sourceS?
[12:23] <zenwhen> I have nothing in my sources.list but hoary
[12:23] <zenwhen> nothing
[12:23] <zenwhen> I didnt even putanything in there
[12:23] <zenwhen> aynaptic did
[12:23] <zenwhen> synaptic*
[12:23] <trukulo> zenwhen, try sudo aptitude clean
[12:23] <trukulo> and try again
[12:24] <zenwhen> clean?
[12:24] <crimsun> zenwhen: on my system, kcontrol 3.3.2-1ubuntu7 and kdelibs-bin 3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu1 coexist fine
[12:24] <zenwhen> well
[12:24] <crimsun> zenwhen: I use aptitude
[12:24] <zenwhen> I dont know whats going on then
[12:25] <zenwhen> maybe this is a kcontrol that was just there last night
[12:25] <haggai> zenwhen: that isn't the kcontrol in hoary that your machine is trying to install
[12:25] <zenwhen> but it *was* there last night
[12:25] <zenwhen> how could it try to install anything else?
[12:25] <haggai> zenwhen: what is the output of 'apt-cache policy kcontrol | grep ubuntu'
[12:25] <zenwhen> Ive never had non hoary sources on this machine
[12:26] <zenwhen>  Candidate: 4:3.3.2-1ubuntu7
[12:26] <zenwhen>      4:3.3.2-1ubuntu7 0
[12:26] <zenwhen>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main Packages
[12:26] <zenwhen>      4:3.3.2-1ubuntu7 0
[12:26] <haggai> zenwhen: your Packages lists are out of date (or your mirror is)
[12:27] <trukulo> zenwhen: sudo aptitude update
[12:31] <zenwhen> :/
[12:32] <zenwhen> i hope this doesnt force me to upgrade all the kde stuff again
[12:32] <zenwhen> because i am on bad dialup and that k3b install took half the night
[12:32] <zenwhen> it was all done from the official hoary mirrors with no repo updating in between. I must have caught them in the middle of an upload.
[12:35] <sabdfl> will we be shipping evo 2.2?
[12:35] <sabdfl> in hoary :-)
[12:37] <fabbione> ehhe
[12:38] <Kamion> I hope we're shipping something with that "please don't even think about using this unless you're a hardcore developer" splash message turned off, at least
[12:39] <zenwhen> lol
[12:41] <daniels> Kamion: 'hardcaw'
[12:56] <jordi> udev can be annoying when it wants
[01:01] <sivang> g'afternoon all
[01:02] <dholbach> hai sivan!
[01:02] <pitti> Hi sivang 
[01:02] <sivang> dholbach: hey :)
[01:02] <sivang> pitti: Hi Martin
 seb128: my hoary systems have a nasty habit of starting updatedb every time I boot, lately :|
 well, that's really bad, it shouldn't be there
 it makes the system very slow, without warning, imagine how a newbie would feel... "this ubuntu distribution is so slow"
[01:03] <seb128> 
[01:03] <seb128> is there a bug open somewhere about this ?
[01:03] <fabbione> i think it's called anacron 
[01:03] <thom> anacron
[01:03] <seb128> thanks, but I know why
[01:03] <sivang> seb128: I don't think so, but it happens everyday in a certain hour , not when you boot
[01:03] <seb128> I just ask if we have a bug about the issue raised
[01:03] <sivang> seb128: Why does it happen ?
[01:03] <fabbione> thombot
[01:04] <seb128> sivang: because of /etc/cron.daily/slocate and anacron
[01:04] <sivang> heheh
[01:04] <mvo> mjg59: around?
[01:04] <thom> fabbione: ciao!
[01:04] <sivang> seb128: well, the database need be updated once in a while to make slocate efficient no?
[01:04] <fabbione> thom: what's up dude?
[01:04] <seb128> sivang: if you don't run updatedb the base is not updated
[01:04] <seb128> and locate is pretty useless
[01:04] <thom> fabbione: popcon joy :-) how was the honeymoon?
[01:05] <fabbione> sivang: this is true, but the perception of slowlyness will stay
[01:05] <fabbione> thom: cool :-)
[01:05] <Keybuk> *shrug* locate and updatedb shouldn't be in base
[01:05] <fabbione> thom: i have a pic of me and galapagos' penguins i want you to put on galapagos at the dc :-)
[01:05] <fabbione> thom: as splash screen ;)
[01:06] <sivang> fabbione: hehe, publish online so we all could see :)
[01:06] <fabbione> sivang: i will soon.. i need to filter them first
[01:06] <fabbione> there are plenty of bad shots
[01:06] <fabbione> and so on...
[01:06] <thom> fabbione: well, if you can make it ascii art i can make a label...
[01:06] <fabbione> thom: i think we can manage ;)
[01:07] <Kamion> whoa, locate *so* should be in base
[01:07] <Kamion> I argued this at the time
[01:07] <Kamion> Unices without locate are REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING
[01:07] <thom> Kamion: agreed
[01:07] <Keybuk> Kamion: unices with out of date locate databases are worst :p
[01:08] <Kamion> Keybuk: that's not ideal, but in the case of locate databases I'd take out-of-date over missing
[01:08] <mjg59> mvo: Hi
[01:08] <fabbione> here is the future DPL ;)
[01:10] <Keybuk> Branden's on here ?!
[01:10] <dholbach> couldnt updatedb be nice'd or something?
[01:10] <fabbione> ahaha
[01:10] <mvo> mjg59: I would like to ask you about your opinion on #5737 (nessus-plugins non-free). I wonder if it affects us
[01:10] <ogra> dholbach: i was taught (in this channel) that nice doesnt speed up disk access
[01:11] <Kamion> right, updatedb is not sucking CPU
[01:11] <dholbach> hmm
[01:11] <Kamion> and it is niced
[01:11] <Keybuk> oddly, with the 2.6 kernel, there's no reason you can't have some kind of "ionice" setting
[01:11] <Kamion> 10 by default
[01:11] <Keybuk> you just don't
[01:11] <mvo> mjg59: I want to write a mail to the nessus people and ask for clarification. it would be very kind if you could look over it (assuming that you are pretty familar with license issues)
[01:15] <dredg> how good is yelp at handling man pages? i just told it to dig one there (bash) and it's having a field day on my ram and cpu...
[01:15] <mjg59> mvo: Eurgh, what a mess.
[01:15] <mjg59> Yeah, contact upstream - but in that sort of situation, don't expect a straight answer
[01:16] <mvo> mjg59: can I /msg you my current mail? 
[01:16] <mjg59> mvo: A link would be better
[01:17] <Kamion> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/scrollkeeper-errors known?
[01:17] <Kamion> dredg: bash(1) is a reasonable groff test case; zshall(1) is better though :)
[01:17] <Kamion> I bet yelp isn't as fast as groff
[01:18] <thom> yelp's man stuff isn't really production ready yet, AIUI
[01:19] <pitti> mvo: does update-manager somehow remember which CDs it already saw?
[01:19] <pitti> mvo: I tried to upgrade from CD, but this failed due to some dependency breakage
[01:19] <pitti> mvo: now I tried again (even with restarting my session and removing the cd-rom  from fstab), but the dialog does not come up again
[01:19] <mvo> pitti: yes, if the cd was scanned already it will not prompt
[01:20] <pitti> mvo: how can I remove this cache?
[01:20] <mvo> pitti: remove it from /var/lib/apt/cdroms.list
[01:21] <seb128> Kamion: nop, I'll have a look, thanks
[01:21] <Kamion> seb128: thanks
[01:21] <pitti> mvo: that helped, thanks
[01:21] <mvo> I wonder if it's a usefull feature. I'm unsure about it. OTOH I don't want to come up with this dialog everytime a user inserts his distro CD. OTOH when he inserts it, he usually will want to do something with it (i.e. install packages) :)
[01:21] <seb128> np
[01:21] <Kamion> it's ugly on installations :)
[01:21] <seb128> yeah
[01:21] <mvo> what do the others think?
[01:22] <pitti> mvo: I would ask everytime
[01:22] <dredg> Kamion: yerrr... that was an interesting exercise in 'how fast does the OOM killer kick in?'
[01:22] <Kamion> will people really insert their distro CD all that often?
[01:22] <pitti> mvo: instead you should suppress the question if I insert a powerpc CD on i386 or a live CD
[01:22] <Kamion> although the DVD, maybe - but as you say that'll be to install packages from it
[01:22] <pitti> Kamion: yes, if they want to install more pacakges or reattempt a failed upgrade
[01:23] <pitti> arrgh
[01:23] <Kamion> pitti: yeah, I think that's much more likely with the DVD than with the CD
[01:23] <pitti> mvo: I thought you already fixed that bug "synaptic still downloads from the net if upgrading from CD"?
[01:24] <mvo> pitti: ? if a version is available it will fetch it from the net
[01:24] <ogra> mvo: put a "ask again ?" checkbox in the dialog
[01:24] <pitti> mvo: I thought we wanted to force the CD-ROm version then?
[01:24] <mvo> pitti: live-cd is a bug. power-pc on i386 is a good idea
[01:24] <mvo> ogra: yes, that sounds reasonable
[01:25] <mvo> pitti: even if the version on the net is newer?
[01:25] <pitti> mvo: yes, that's what _I_ want now (not sure about the others)
[01:25] <mdz> morning
[01:26] <pitti> mvo: I download/get the CD to _avoid_ downloading from net
[01:26] <Treenaks> pitti: how about security fixes then?
[01:26] <pitti> mdz: hi
[01:26] <pitti> Treenaks: if I click on the update-manager icon, I want upgrades and newer versions from net
[01:26] <pitti> Treenaks: but not if I upgrade my system from a CD
[01:26] <ogra> morning mdz
[01:26] <pitti> I don't need the CD if 3/4 of the packages are downloaded from the net
[01:27] <Treenaks> pitti: it's criminal to NOT do security upgrades when you're connected to the net, imho
[01:27] <pitti> Treenaks: okay, then security updates from the net, and packages from CD
[01:28] <pitti> Treenaks: however, I don't even want security updates when I'm on dialup
[01:28] <pitti> Treenaks: not if I insert a CD; I can upgrade them manually with the icon
[01:30] <Treenaks> so you're trying to make an artificial distinction between "normal" upgrades and "security" upgrades
[01:30] <mvo> pitti: it's not that easy. file a whishlist bug against synaptic please
[01:30] <pitti> Treenaks: no, I make a distinction between "I want security updates" and "I want to upgrade my system from CD"
[01:31] <pitti> mvo: hmm, I think the particular strategy should be discussed with more people
[01:31] <Treenaks> pitti: send a RFC to -devel?
[01:31] <pitti> Treenaks: modem people will beat us up if we tell them that they are supposed to download 200M of debs _although_ they have a recent CD
[01:31] <pitti> Treenaks: yes, good idea
[01:31] <pitti> Treenaks: after preview :-)
[01:32] <Treenaks> pitti: :)
[01:32] <mvo> pitti: there are some more problems involved here. synaptic needs to know from where the packages are actually fetched. this is a information that may not yet available (or expensive to get). there may be more than one source for a given version
[01:32] <mvo> etc
[01:32] <mvo> pitti: file a bug, I will look into it and see how it could be done 
[01:32] <pitti> mvo: okay, post-preview :-)
[01:33] <pitti> mvo: can't you temporarily ignore non-CD-ROM sources?
[01:33] <pitti> mvo: that's what I did now, I commented out the http:// sources from sources.list
[01:35] <mvo> pitti: not easily at least
[01:36] <pitti> mvo: apt-get -c /tmp/cdrom-only-apt.conf ?
[01:36] <pitti> mvo: oh, even better
[01:36] <pitti> mvo: apt-get -o Dir::Etc::SourceList=/tmp/cdrom-only-sources.list
[01:37] <mvo> pitti: sure, the problem can be solved with brute-force. I consider this a very hackish solution
[01:37] <pitti> it is.. :-)
[01:37] <pitti> anyway, let's discuss that later
[01:38] <mvo> pitti: ok
[01:44] <Kamion> mdz: I've fixed the issue where a whole CD image build fell over if something went wrong on one architecture
[01:44] <mdz> Kamion: thnks
[01:44] <mdz> thanks
[01:45] <Kamion> mdz: so in general you probably never want to do stuff like ARCHES='amd64 i386 powerpc' cron.daily-live any more - just let it fail on ia64
[01:45] <Kamion> if it goes wrong, let me know :)
[02:06] <Kamion> mdz: also, live filesystem manifests should now be published as hoary-live-$arch.manifest
[02:06] <Kamion> running a test now
[02:06] <mdz> nice
[02:06] <mdz> whoa, my panel just crashed randomly
[02:08] <Burgundavia> test
[02:09] <ogra> Burgundavia: failed :-P
[02:09] <Kamion> mdz: any idea what time we should expect to be able to freeze the world for preview?
[02:09] <Kamion> (tomorrow sometime, I assume)
[02:10] <mdz> Kamion: GNOME 2.10 is the only remaining factor
[02:10] <mdz> so whenever they finish releasing tarballs, and seb128 finishes uploading them
[02:10] <mdz> jdub: ?
[02:10] <Mithrandir> elmo: any comments on http://sources.redhat.com/ml/binutils/2004-09/msg00299.html ?  It would be a nice thing to pull in, I think.
[02:10] <Kamion> ok. I probably need to upload debian-installer at some point; a non-daily build of that would be good
[02:11] <Burgundavia> ogra: damn
[02:11] <ogra> heh
[02:11] <rightclicker> need some assistance, using an Acer Travelmate 230 Laptop - Ubuntu - Im getting X Server error - i can view some details on the output, im a Newbie.
[02:13] <thom> rightclicker: support questions in #ubuntu, please
[02:13] <rightclicker> cheers
[02:13] <mdz> Kamion: would it be straightforward to generate a list of uninstallable packages in universe (deps unresolvable in main+universe, but only output packages which are in universe)?
[02:13] <Kamion> mdz: hm, dunno, I'd have to try it
[02:14] <ogra> Kamion: that would be absolutely great :)
[02:15] <Kamion> I expect it would be easier to generate a list of uninstallable packages everywhere, and there aren't that many in main
[02:16] <ogra> Kamion: that would be sufficient too i think, we can remove the main packages ourselves....
[02:19] <Kamion> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/hoary-live-i386.manifest # hooray
[02:19] <Treenaks> "hoaray"
[02:20] <thom> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ lala
[02:20] <doko> mdz, jdub: fabbione is ok with the proposed avm-fritz-firmware package, I'd like upload that package before the prerelease and include it in the ship so that the avm drivers are actually working
[02:20] <thom> it, uh, needs branding and some fixing
[02:21] <Mithrandir> thom: a tiny bit, yes
[02:22] <thom> but there are at least 175 people submitting
[02:22] <tseng> would be useful to see what tops universe
[02:22] <Mithrandir> I should get popcon installed on my amd64 boxes, then
[02:22] <Burgundavia> is the popcon package for hoary pointed there?
[02:22] <tseng> most of main is pretty obvious as it comes ootb
[02:23] <thom> Burgundavia: yes
[02:23] <mdz> hehe
[02:23] <thom> tseng: nod
[02:23] <mdz> our popcon results are much flatter than Debian's
[02:23] <Burgundavia> so I am one of just 175 people who are reporting?
[02:24] <mdz> Burgundavia: yes, once thom has everything in good shape, he'll make an announcement to remind people of popcon's existence and tell them how to participate
[02:24] <mdz> (it doesn't submit anything by default)
[02:24] <tseng> anyone have a particular cd they want tested?
[02:24] <Burgundavia> right, I remember the question in the nstaller
[02:24] <tseng> doing an install.
[02:26] <Burgundavia> mdz: regarding derooting, popcon mentions that it be derooted in the FAQ
[02:26] <Mithrandir> thom: how can I check that my boxes have actually sent in something?
[02:28] <thom> Mithrandir: what is in your /etc/popularity-contest.conf? if you tell me your host-id i can check
[02:29] <Mithrandir> thom: people are going to ask the question, I can imagine.  "c9aabcce3ca24b9cb59f57dddd048195" and "1e08140075aed3bc01ed90ca5d634c59"
[02:30] <thom> yes, they're both submitting
[02:31] <thom> if PARTICIPATE=yes there's no reason for it not to work
[02:31] <Mithrandir> so I'm 20% of the amd64 population. :)
[02:31] <lamont> moof
[02:32] <thom> Mithrandir: looks that way
[02:32] <Mithrandir> ogra: go go go! :)
[02:32] <ogra> done
[02:33] <ogra> thom: just running popularity-contest is enough ? or do i have to call popcon-upload separately ?
[02:33] <Mithrandir> ogra: just install popuplarity-contest and it should submit
[02:34] <mdz> ogra: it runs weekly
[02:34] <ogra> Mithrandir: its installed since i got this machine, but PARTICIPATE was set to no
[02:34] <zul> morning
[02:35] <Mithrandir> hi chuck
[02:35] <zul> hey Mithrandir
[02:36] <lamont> thom: should I enable popcon on my hppa box?
[02:36] <thom> ogra: if you want to hurry the process just sudo /etc/cron.weekly/popularity-contest
[02:36] <thom> lamont: meh.
[02:36] <lamont> ii  popularity-con 1.26ubuntu3    Vote for your favourite packages automatical
[02:36] <lamont> Linux gw 2.6.11-rc4-pa1 #7 Wed Feb 16 16:58:22 MST 2005 parisc GNU/Linux
[02:36] <maswan> Should I hurry and try to migrate a cluster or two? :)
[02:42] <Kamion> Mithrandir: popularity-contest is in base
[02:42] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, but it's not enabled by default.
[02:42] <Kamion> right
[02:42] <pitti> ogra: hehe - http://www.heise.de/security/news/foren/go.shtml?read=1&msg_id=7568932&forum_id=75063
[02:42] <Kamion> somebody should apply Ubuntu branding to 'dpkg-reconfigure popularity-contest'
[02:43] <ogra> pitti: yeah, youre our marketing department, i always knew it ;)
[02:43] <pitti> *giggle*
[02:44] <sivang> pitti, what does it say?
[02:44] <sivang> pitti: I mean, the article that you pasted the link to :)
[02:45] <ogra> sivang: that ubuntu is fastest in security fixes and that its impressing for such a young distro
[02:45] <sivang> ogra: oh, very nice.
[02:45] <pitti> sivang: "Again Ubuntu belongs to the first ones which provide corrected packages after publication of a security hole. A good start for a distribution which is known for only half a year."
[02:45] <sivang> pitti: they should say who is the guy who is responsible for that ;-)
[02:46] <pitti> sivang: ah, don't worry
[02:46] <pitti> sivang: this was an user comment
[02:46] <pitti> sivang: not an article of the newsticker
[02:46] <pitti> sivang: besides, the article mentions "Ubuntu", that's the important part :-)
[02:46] <ogra> sivang: heise refused to report about ubuntu from the beginning, there were lots of people pointing to the warty release announcement and they didnt react until today....
[02:46] <Burgundavia> if you look at lwn security round up each week, Ubuntu is almost always the first distro to patch
[02:46] <pitti> cool
[02:47] <sivang> pitti: true :)
[02:47] <ogra> sivang: in fact there is one article where "this new southafrican distribution called ubuntu" is mentioned...in the whole archive
[02:47] <ogra> and thats all....
[02:47] <pitti> there was a short article in the magazine, though
[02:47] <ogra> quite poor for the leading german IT news site
[02:47] <pitti> ogra: trust me, I will send them the Hoary announcement again :-)
[02:48] <Burgundavia> I think it is funny that distrowatch lists ubuntu as coming from the isle of man rather than sa. Yes, I know canonical is based there
[02:48] <pitti> ogra: (all other German guys should, too :-) )
[02:48] <ogra> pitti: i will poke them too
[02:49] <ogra> Burgundavia: regarding the uploads of the last days it might be based in france ;)
[02:49] <ogra> it always depends on the citeria you use for measuring *g*
[02:50] <Burgundavia> tracking the country is kind of meaningless with linux devel work
[02:51] <ogra> yup....as tracking the adress of a LTD is :)
[02:52] <Burgundavia> while we are on security, can I ask why don't have firefox 1.0.1?
[02:52] <pitti> Burgundavia: we will have
[02:52] <pitti> Burgundavia: just not for the preview
[02:52] <pitti> Burgundavia: since the risk of destabilizing the preview is too big
[02:52] <Burgundavia> ok
[02:53] <Mithrandir> maswan: what would "the Ubuntu developers" be in Swedish?  Are you allowed to say "Ubuntuutvecklarna" or do you say "Ubuntu-utvecklarna"?
[02:54] <Burgundavia> however, the new version came out Feb 24, the same day as the preview freeze
[02:54] <maswan> "Ubuntu-utvecklarna", since "Ubuntu" is a name, not a common word
[02:55] <maswan> or a foreign word for that matter
[02:55] <Mithrandir> maswan: for debian, it's Debianutvecklarna, though.
[02:55] <Mithrandir> Kamion: correct.
[02:55] <maswan> Mithrandir: Hmm.. True.
[02:55] <Mithrandir> but a double U wouldn't be correct in Norwegian at least, and the languages are quite similar
[02:56] <maswan> hmm.. probably have that at home only, go for "Ubuntu-utvecklarna"
[02:56] <Mithrandir> ok
[02:56] <maswan> I'll try and remember to check this evening when I get home
[02:56] <Mithrandir> but Ubuntupaket is ok?
[02:56] <maswan> I think so, yes.
[02:57] <maswan> It looks ok. :)
[02:57] <Mithrandir> Kamion: Ubuntu is just Ubuntu, even in Czech, right?
[02:57] <Mithrandir> we should have a "localizing Debian packages with sed" wiki page
[02:58] <lamont> Mithrandir: it gets transliterated into say, japanese, but otherwise, I expect so
[02:58] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I don't have an answer for Czech
[02:58] <Mithrandir> lamont: Debian is Debianu in some cases for Czech.
[02:58] <Kamion> Mithrandir: everything I know on this subject is in http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DistributionDefaultsAndBranding
[02:58] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I just leave everything else fuzzy
[02:59] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok
[02:59] <Kamion> there are some languages where the form isn't just "Ubuntu" regardless of case, such as Finnish
[02:59] <doko> Priority: source ???
[02:59] <Kamion> doko: I noticed that, seems to be a bug in the override file
[02:59] <Mithrandir> Kamion: well, they can file bugs. :)
[02:59] <Kamion> Mithrandir: right :)
[03:00] <doko> kamion, ok, thanks
[03:00] <Mithrandir> it's not like I know Ukrainian or Russian either, but they're simple to ubuntifiscate.
[03:01] <koke> d3vic3: are you working on the omniorb4 package?
[03:01] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: how about verbs around it? they might change because of the starting/ending sounds of words
[03:02] <Treenaks> or other "modifications"
[03:02] <Kamion> Treenaks: so far nobody's told me of any examples of that
[03:02] <Kamion> Treenaks: apart from English: "a Debian ..." -> "an Ubuntu ..."
[03:02] <Kamion> it's certainly possible though
[03:02] <Treenaks> Kamion: yeah, but most of you know English :)
[03:03] <Kamion> Treenaks: since I do the installer branding, I get most of the reports about this.
[03:03] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: yes, they can.  If so, we have a wiki page and a bugzilla.
[03:03] <Kamion> oh, there's "d'Ubuntu" in some languages too
[03:03] <Kamion> but not universal, I think some are still "de Ubuntu"
[03:05] <d3vic3> koke, I haven't started on it yet 
[03:07] <Burgundavia> branding issue: python package mentions debian
[03:08] <infinity> Not sure if this means Ubuntu users are more polite/sane than Debian users, or if they just don't like to mail people.
[03:08] <koke> d3vic3: I'm packaging synopsis and depends on it
[03:08] <koke> d3vic3: maybe I'll try to package omniorb first
[03:08] <d3vic3> koke, ok 
[03:19] <sivang> hmm nice, either openoffice2 takes LOADS of memory, or my gnome uprgades are just slowing down my machines :)
[03:19] <Treenaks> sivang: both
[03:23] <sivang> Treenaks: you also see the slowdown with the latest gnome updateS?
[03:24] <Treenaks> sivang: try switching to a simpler theme
[03:24] <Treenaks> I hope it's not a build-flag thing
[03:25] <sivang> Treenaks: bah, right. what do you consider a simple theme? :)
[03:26] <Treenaks> sivang: well, try "simple" :P
[03:26] <Treenaks> or default
[03:26] <Treenaks> even industrial is not as heavy as clearlooks
[03:26] <Treenaks> afaik
[03:28] <mdz> Kamion: haha, I completely got my bugs crossed in #966
[03:28] <mdz> I was reading email about the kernel package install bug, and writing about the mdadm.conf bug
[03:30] <Kamion> yeah, I thought so :)
[03:32] <mdz> seb128: do you know when we will have a full set of 2.10 packages in Hoary, so that we can start testing for preview?
[03:34] <seb128> mdz: within 1 hour
[03:34] <mdz> seb128: fabulous
[03:34] <seb128> mdz: where is the hoary page in yelp ?
[03:35] <mdz> seb128: under "other documentation" right now
[03:35] <seb128> or on the hdd
[03:35] <mdz> /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/C/about-ubuntu.xml
[03:35] <mdz> /usr/share/omf/ubuntu-docs/about-ubuntu-C.omf
[03:35] <fabbione> thom: ping?
[03:35] <seb128> mdz: thanks
[03:35] <thom> fabbione: just walking out the door, sorry
[03:35] <seb128> mdz: I'll do a panel upload to fix that
[03:35] <mdz> seb128: we will be changing the yelp category stuff, but probably not the location on disk
[03:35] <seb128> k
[03:36] <fabbione> thom: ok
[03:36] <fabbione> thanks
[03:38] <ogra> mdz: so when will we freeze then ? ( i just got struck by some real world problems (landlord terminated my contract for the house))
[03:38] <mdz> ogra: ouch!
[03:38] <ogra> yup
[03:38] <mdz> ogra: we are already frozen :-)
[03:39] <ogra> oh
[03:39] <ogra> i thought today or tomorrow was the date
[03:39] <mdz> mako: around?
[03:40] <mako> mdz: yeah
[03:41] <mdz> mako: I had this fantastic idea
[03:41] <mdz> mako: that for preview, we prepare the release announcement _ahead of time_
[03:41] <mako> ?
[03:41] <pitti> mdz: erm?
[03:41] <pitti> mdz: vaporware?
[03:42] <mdz> pitti: hmm?
[03:42] <pitti> mdz: ah, sorry, I misread
[03:42] <ogra> mdz: isnt that done anyway
[03:42] <mdz> ogra: tomorrow is the preview release
[03:42] <mdz> ogra: preview freeze began 6 days ago
[03:42] <mdz> ogra: see my release updates on ubuntu-devel
[03:43] <ogra> ah, ok, i muddled these two
[03:43] <mako> mdz: sounds great
[03:43] <mdz> mako: do you think you can fit that in sometime today?
[03:43] <mako> mdz: want to select the highlights from the release notes?
[03:43] <mdz> mako: yeah
[03:43] <mdz> mako: also, we're hoping to release a Kubuntu preview at the same time
[03:44] <mako> i need to make sure shipit is ready to take new orders but i think that's working
[03:44] <mako> anyone want to help me test a new shipit?
[03:44] <mdz> mako: however, we probably want to paint it in a different light, since Kubuntu is only just coming together, while Ubuntu has been stabilizing for some time
[03:44] <mako> alright
[03:44] <Treenaks> mako: cool
[03:44] <mdz> mako: is that enough to go on, or should I send some bullet points?
[03:44] <Treenaks> mako: I probably could help you
[03:45] <mako> Treenaks: devel.yukidoke.org/shipit/user.cgi
[03:45] <Treenaks> mako: old logins don't work?
[03:45] <mako> mdz: i will go through the release notes and pick out highlights i like. if there's stuff you think is essential
[03:45] <mako> Treenaks: they should.. but also try to create a new one.. abuse it a bit
[03:45] <mako> Treenaks: i did a lot of work on it in the last week
[03:46] <Treenaks> mako: where do I report bugs? :)
[03:46] <mako> Treenaks: /query mako
[03:47] <dilinger> mako: hi
[03:50] <mdz> seb128: gv wants to move to universe now; did gnome-gv depend on it before or something?
[03:51] <seb128> mdz: I've not changed the Depends, that's weird
[03:52] <mdz> it has never been seeded, so something depended on it
[03:53] <mdz> it was in universe in warty
[03:53] <mdz> weird
[03:55] <mdz> lamont: kdegraphics needs a dep-wait on imlib+png2_1.9.14-16.2ubuntu1
[03:56] <mdz> Kamion: amd64 install from today's daily is gold
[03:56] <fabbione> ok you can quote me on this:
[03:56] <pitti> fabbione: hey, don't shoot the messenger :-)
[03:57] <mdz> I need more sleep. back in a few hours
[03:57] <fabbione> "if CAN was a dildo, i would be goatse now"
[03:57] <fabbione> mdz: sleep tight (rememebr the cc meeting in one hour)
[03:57] <pitti> goatse -> no dictionary entry :-(
[03:57] <pitti> mdz: good night :-)
[04:00] <mako> pitti: do you know ProSieben?
[04:00] <dholbach> mako: i know it... what about them?
[04:00] <pitti> mako: sure
[04:01] <pitti> mako: I don't have a TV, though
[04:01] <mako> dholbach, pitti: what is? they want to make a show about my website
[04:01] <dholbach> wow :-)
[04:01] <pitti> mako: that's a famous German TV station
[04:01] <mako> www.unhappybirthday.com
[04:01] <dholbach> rocking
[04:01] <mako> are they cool?
[04:02] <pitti> mako: dunno, during the last five years I watched TV only for a few hours (in total)
[04:02] <dholbach> they're a private station, so they send a lot of crap (in my opinion), but they're huge
[04:02] <mako> pitti: i don't have a tv either. especially not one that receives german stations
[04:02] <dholbach> s/private/company
[04:03] <dholbach> but i'd surely find someone who records it for me
[04:03] <lamont> checking for png_read_info in -lpng... no
[04:03] <lamont> configure: error: *** PNG library not found ***
[04:03] <lamont> mdz: better make that imlib+png2 >>1.9.14-16.2ubuntu1
[04:09] <dholbach> mako: while you're talking to them, tell them they could make a show on ubuntu :-)
[04:12] <mako> dholbach: i will!
[04:12] <dholbach> mako: you rock! :-)
[04:14] <dredg> specifically, a puppet show
[04:16] <Treenaks> for some reason, I keep thinking "at-spi" is some SPI version of the 'at' program..
[04:17] <lamont> seb128: are we nearly there yet? (how many more packages you got, anyway???)
[04:18] <dholbach> lamont: millions
[04:18] <ogra> hopefully not
[04:18] <dholbach> lamont: i'm subscribed to the gnome-release rss feed
[04:18] <seb128> lamont: I've uploaded all the tarball excepted gnome-cups-manager and libgnomecups which have a regression according to pitti and so not for the preview and gdm
[04:18] <lamont> seb128: woot.
[04:18] <seb128> lamont: we can go without the new gdm if you want
[04:19] <seb128> how are the builds going ?
[04:19] <lamont> slogging along
[04:19] <dredg> dholbach: rss feed url?
[04:19] <lamont> there was one failure because the build-deps were wrong (well, old), but I just depwaited it
[04:20] <lamont> libgnomecups1.0 was the dep-wait, now 0.2.0, build-dep only dragged in 0.1.4
[04:20] <seb128> what failure ?
[04:20] <dholbach> dredg: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/LATEST.xml
[04:21] <seb128> lamont: what package is that ?
[04:21] <dredg> dholbach: cheers
[04:21] <lamont> had to go find it.
[04:21] <lamont> libgnomeprint
[04:22] <lamont> the failure log should be on p.u.c - if not holler, because that means I "found" the wrong package...
[04:22] <seb128> arg
[04:22] <lamont> it
[04:23] <lamont> seb128: it's dealt with
[04:23] <seb128> lamont: no
[04:23] <lamont> although it would be good to fix the package...
 lamont: I've uploaded all the tarball excepted gnome-cups-manager and libgnomecups which have a regression according to pitti
[04:23] <lamont> pkgconfig barfs
[04:23] <seb128> I've not uploaded the new libgnomecups
[04:23] <lamont> oh. DOH!
[04:23] <seb128> pitti: ?
[04:24] <pitti> seb128: do we really need the new libgnomecups?
[04:24] <seb128> pitti: new libgnomeprint/printui depends on the libgnomecups you don't want to get uploaded
[04:24] <pitti> arrgh
[04:24] <wasabi_> hmm, after the last hoary update (yesterday) i have an xorg that is spinning CPU uselessly
[04:24] <seb128> pitti: is that a big regression for a preview ?
[04:24] <pitti> seb128, lamont: well, it's not the worst bug in the world, but I wanted to avoid having it in the preview
[04:24] <pitti> seb128, lamont: but if it blocks anything, go ahead and upload it
[04:25] <seb128> k
[04:25] <lamont> pitti: is fixable?
[04:25] <lamont> pitti: it blocks
[04:25] <pitti> seb128: however, we should fix it after preview
[04:25] <seb128> sure
[04:25] <seb128> that's probably easy to fix
[04:25] <pitti> lamont: I hope it is fixable, but not until tomorrow, I'm afraid
[04:25] <lamont> right
[04:25] <seb128> the diff between previous version and this one is like 200 lines
[04:25] <pitti> seb128: okay, then upload it
[04:25] <pitti> seb128: I will take a look at it ASAP
[04:26] <pitti> seb128: can you please put the source package somewhere
[04:26] <wasabi_> hmmm. spinning update-notifier
[04:26] <wasabi_> spinning notification area
[04:26] <ogra> seb128: this totem downloads DLLs changelog entry is just weird.... did hadess say anything about that ?
[04:26] <pitti> seb128: nevermind, I can also download it after you uploaded it
[04:27] <seb128> pitti: k
[04:27] <seb128> ogra: what changelog entry ?
[04:27] <seb128> ogra: a guy already mailed ubuntu-user about a such stuff this morning
[04:27] <ogra> * Automatic download of the Windows DLL plugins
[04:28] <ogra> apt-cache show totem
[04:28] <ogra> very strange
[04:28] <seb128> that's not new
[04:28] <ogra> oh
[04:28] <seb128> the description has not changed for months
[04:29] <seb128> what entry ?
[04:29] <seb128> be clear
[04:29] <wasabi_>     * Automatic download of the Windows DLL plugins
[04:29] <ogra> the one i just posted
[04:29] <wasabi_> wow! what a feature!
[04:29] <ogra> scary...
[04:30] <seb128> wasabi_: thanks but that's not a changelog, that's a package description
[04:30] <ogra> seb128: simple....its wrong 
[04:30] <seb128> if you put w32codecs totem uses them
[04:30] <seb128> that's all
[04:30] <seb128> and that's not new
[04:30] <ogra> seb128: but it doesnt download them automatically
[04:31] <seb128> bad english perhaps
[04:31] <ogra> :)
[04:31] <seb128> it loads them from the disc
[04:31] <seb128> grrr
[04:31] <seb128> if you want to make a mess now about an english sentence beeing in the description for month be clear
[04:32] <ogra> seb128, sorry...
[04:32] <seb128> np
[04:32] <seb128> but that's really an useful discussion
[04:35] <wasabi_> hmm, would it be possible to make the install cd grub boot screen continue after a minute or such?
[04:35] <wasabi_> why doesn't it?
[04:36] <wasabi_> I had this crazy idea that I want to install on this pc using a serial console, but can't get past the boot. ;)
[04:36] <wasabi_> hmm i wonder if there is someway to make grub touch the serial console...
[04:36] <Kamion> it wouldn't help you if you can't type 'linux console=ttyS0' or whatever at it
[04:37] <Kamion> and that isn't grub, it's isolinux
[04:37] <wasabi_> is it? same diff.
[04:37] <wasabi_> hmmm. wonder if the kernel could multiplex to both ttyS0 and the screen. ;)
[04:37] <pitti> wasabi_: this works fine with lilo
[04:38] <pitti> wasabi_: (multiplexing)
[04:38] <wasabi_> the install cd doesn't use lilo. =/
[04:38] <pitti> yes, I know
[04:38] <wasabi_> as i just discovered!
[04:38] <pitti> wasabi_: but you asked for the kernel :-)
[04:38] <wasabi_> =)
[04:39] <wasabi_> I dunno what I'm asking for. All I know is I have this box here, and the only available monitor is halfway across the office and it's a 19" crt and it's heavy. =)
[04:39] <wasabi_> and I want to put ubuntu on it!
[04:39] <torkel> should work fine with grub too (not tried it with Ubuntu yet though)
[04:39] <pitti> wasabi_: automatic boot after a certain timeout would certainly help :-)
[04:41] <Kamion> if you do autoboot and the timeout is too short, people file bugs saying that they were in the middle of reading the help messages and suddenly it autobooted
[04:42] <Kamion> if you do autoboot and the timeout is too long, people file bugs saying they grew old and died waiting for it, or simply don't realise that autoboot will happen at all
[04:42] <Kamion> so we don't do autoboot :P
[04:42] <wasabi_> what about isolinux using tty0 like lilo supposadly does?
[04:42] <wasabi_> ttyS0
[04:42] <wasabi_> does it support it or would it have to be added?
[04:45] <mako> can anyone else help me out with testing shipit?
[04:46] <pitti> mako: I can, what do I have to do?
[04:46] <Mithrandir> order a shipload of CDs, most likely?
[04:46] <Mithrandir> :)
[04:46] <pitti> Mithrandir: I already tried to provoke SQL injections for an hour :-)
[04:46] <tseng> i can order cds if thats it mako 
[04:47] <pitti> mako: shall I just order some CDs?
[04:47] <mako> pitti: just go to http://devel.yukidoke.org/shipit/user.cgi
[04:47] <mako> pitti: create an account, log in, etc
[04:47] <fabbione> at what time does the daily iso/live build run?
[04:47] <mako> pitti: it's a scratch db
[04:47] <mako> pitti: just go nuts
[04:47] <mako> tseng: you too
[04:47] <tseng> will do
[04:47] <fabbione> hey mako
[04:48] <pitti> mako: oh, can I actually try SQL statements that will kill the db?
[04:48] <mako> tseng: there is some room for improvement but i'm thinking it's stable enough to use for the tomorrow
[04:48] <mako> pitti: that bug is fixed :)
[04:48] <wasabi_> heh. i can't believe i gave away the 50 warty cds I had
[04:48] <pitti> mako: last time I tried to do something observable which does not actually damage anything
[04:48] <wasabi_> i didn't even know I knew 50 people
[04:48] <mako> pitti: either should be fine here.. this is not the live db
[04:49] <mako> pitti: and the code is a lot more robust now
[04:49] <mako> pitti: i spent much of last week introducing new bugs.. i mean improving it
[04:49] <mako> Amaranth: i am very low on cds
[04:49] <mako> Amaranth: (that means tens of thousands)
[04:50] <Amaranth> I wouldn't want to give them warty now anyway.
[04:50] <Amaranth> I'll probably go buy 100 spindle of CD-Rs and bore myself to death burning and testing them.
[04:56] <pitti> mako: one small bug so far: if I do anything wrong (invalid number or so), my country setting is forgotten
[04:57] <Kamion> wasabi_: no idea, I don't actually own any serial console hardware ...
[04:57] <mako> pitti: yeah. i noticed that too.
[04:57] <Kamion> fabbione: 
[04:57] <Kamion> 21 8 * * *      /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/cron.daily
[04:57] <Kamion> 1 8 * * *       /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/cron.daily-live
[04:57] <Kamion> 17 12 * * 6     /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/cron.weekly-dvd
[04:57] <Kamion> 14 5 * * *      /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/cron.kubuntu-daily
[04:57] <Kamion> 1 6 * * *       /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/cron.kubuntu-daily-live
[04:58] <Kamion> fabbione: (colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/cdimage--mainline--0, etc/crontab)
[04:58] <Kamion> er, s/2005/2004/
[04:58] <lamont> Kamion: speaking of cdimage...
[04:59] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks :-)
[04:59] <Kamion> "no, tr [A-Z]  [a-z]  is Just Wrong"
[05:00] <Kamion> lamont: hopefully post-preview I'll have the time to try following the procedure myself :-)
[05:00] <lamont> Kamion: heh.  yeah
[05:01] <lamont> wow. 47 deg F -> 37 deg F in 15 minutes
[05:02] <mako> Community Council Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[05:02] <mako> And Community Council Meeting Time is... PARTY TIME
[05:12] <mdz> lamont: wtf, re: imlib+png2
[05:12] <mdz> lamont: it built for me locally
[05:13] <mdz> lamont: can I get config.log?
[05:13] <lamont> mdz: I think so... second
[05:14] <mdz> er
[05:14] <mdz> lamont: which package was that log snippet from?
[05:15] <lamont> mdz: snippet was from imlib
[05:15] <mdz> lamont: imlib+png2?
[05:15] <lamont> config.log is at p.u.c/~lamont/logs/imlib+png2.config.log
[05:15] <lamont> yeah
[05:15] <mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/i/imlib+png2/1.9.14-16ubuntu1/
[05:15] <mdz> but it succeeded
[05:16] <lamont>       467 Log for failed build of imlib+png2_1.9.14-16.2ubuntu1 (dist=hoary)
[05:16] <lamont> but that's newer
[05:16] <lamont> and is the version you uploaded...
[05:16] <mdz> oh, the dirindex isn't sorted in version order in this case
[05:16] <lamont> correct
[05:17] <lamont> dirindex is, sadly, alphasort
[05:18] <mdz> I see, I had libpng12-dev installed
[05:19] <mvo> mdz: can I talk to you about #5737 (nessus-plugins) when you have time?
[05:20] <mdz> lamont: do you know if -I/usr/include/libpng10 or s/png/png10/ is the correct fix?
[05:22] <lamont> mdz: dunno off the top of my pointy
[05:23] <lamont> -I/usr/include/libpng10 will get you the files
[05:24] <lamont> if it was a question of /usr/include/libpng vs /usr/include/libpng10, that is....
[05:24] <mdz> yeah, it works either way
[05:24] <mdz> it was a question of changing the include path or the include preprocessor statements
[05:24] <mdz> I went with the former
[05:25] <mdz> uploaded
[05:31] <lamont> ah, ok.
[05:31] <seb128> archive.u.c is lagging ?
[05:31] <lamont> seb128: on days like this, I kinda expect it.
[05:32] <seb128> k
[05:43] <lamont> seb128: "like this" == lots of packages to mirror, and everybody and their grandmother downloading
[05:44] <seb128> yeah
[05:54] <mdz> lamont: fixed imlib built
[05:55] <lamont> mdz: then whatever we depwaited on it should build right after :03
[06:04] <Kamion> mdz: can you grab a weekly DVD or two and give that a test? or shall I generate a fresh set first?
[06:04] <mdz> Kamion: fresh set would be good
[06:04] <mdz> Kamion: we need to write up an install test plan
[06:05] <mdz> {server,desktop} via {CD,DVD}, try to get some code coverage
[06:05] <dholbach> see you later
[06:06] <Kamion> fresh set kicked
[06:06] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, acknowledged
[06:06] <mdz> I'll start rsyncing the old ones
[06:07] <mdz> er
[06:07] <mdz> Length: -1,549,498,368 [application/octet-stream] 
[06:07] <mdz>     [ <=>                                 ]  0             --.--K/s
[06:07] <mdz> 09:11:01 (0.00 B/s) - `hoary-install-amd64.iso' saved [0/-1549498368] )
[06:07] <mdz> either wget or apache is b0rked on large files
[06:08] <lamont> lol
[06:08] <Mithrandir> url?
[06:08] <Kamion> I thought apache got fixed
[06:08] <fabbione> i had say apache 
[06:08] <Mithrandir> yeah, a2 is b0rken
[06:08] <mdz> looks like apache
[06:08] <Mithrandir> you need 2.2
[06:08] <mdz> Mithrandir: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/weekly-dvd/current/
[06:08] <Kamion> $ HEAD http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/weekly-dvd/current/hoary-install-amd64.iso
[06:08] <Kamion> 200 OK
[06:08] <Kamion> Content-Length: 2745468928
[06:08] <Kamion> [...] 
[06:08] <fabbione> mdz: afaik thom installed 2.2 on people only for testing
[06:08] <Kamion> fabbione: nope, he installed it on cdimage too
[06:09] <mdz> Kamion: firefox broke too
[06:09] <fabbione> o
[06:09] <mdz> I'm using rsync now
[06:09] <Kamion> go LFS, it's your birthday
[06:09] <Kamion> mdz: try downloading stuff on an amd64 box instead to avoid the problem? :-)
[06:09] <mdz> 20th birthday maybe
[06:09] <mdz> nah, I'll just tie up an rsync slot for an hour, thanks :-P
[06:10] <mako> so, is elmo going to reappear today?
[06:10] <mdz> mako: I understand he's at the data centre
[06:10] <mako> i rather badly need a new version of shipit installed today
[06:10] <mako> so i can reset the database for hoary orders tonight before we announce the preview tomorrow
[06:11] <mako> think i should sms him?
[06:11] <mdz> mako: he should be textable for urgent stuff
[06:11] <mako> to put it on his radar?
[06:11] <mako> it's "Today" urgent.. not "right now" urgent
[06:11] <mdz> hmm, I should be rsyncing this DVD onto a CD iso
[06:12] <mdz> Kamion: so I guess we're going to delay the release of the combo DVD
[06:12] <Kamion> for what?
[06:12] <lamont> mako: so shipit is still warty orders?
[06:12] <mdz> Kamion: because we haven't even tried it yet? :-)
[06:12] <Kamion> the one you're rsyncing is a combo
[06:13] <Kamion> minor details :-)
[06:13] <mako> lamont: like for hours
[06:13] <mdz> oh, that's why it's so huge
[06:13] <mdz> I didn't realize you'd done that
[06:13] <mako> lamont: but no.. we're out of cds
[06:13] <Kamion> I'm happy not to release it this time round, but we do need to get wider testing of it if it's for hoary final
[06:13] <mdz> so I should rsync it into a concatenation of install+live :-)
[06:13] <lamont> mako: heh
[06:13] <mako> lamont: i have a special reserve :)
[06:13] <Kamion> yeah, I thought I'd mentioned it
[06:13] <Kamion> mdz: yes :-)
[06:13] <mdz> I don't think DVD is critical for preview
[06:13] <Kamion> that should work rather well actually
[06:13] <mako> lamont: tomorrow.. or late today
[06:14] <mdz> I'm completely out
[06:15] <mako> i'm nearly completely out
[06:15] <lamont> are we admitting to how many we pressed/shipped?
[06:15] <tseng> i think we gave away most of 200 at the security conference here
[06:15] <mdz> mako: you have Ubuntu CDs between the cushions of your couch
[06:16] <mdz> you will be finding them for years to come
[06:16] <lamont> mako: is shipit email-addr == user id, or can you change your email addr?
[06:16] <mdz> your apartment is saturated
[06:16] <mako> mdz: yeah.. i have a lot of them everwhere
[06:16] <mdz> sabdfl: do you care if we release DVD images for preview, rather than only for final?
[06:16] <mako> lamont: you can change email address
[06:16] <mako> lamont: there is a uniq number i don't let you change
[06:16] <mdz> sabdfl: it takes a lot of time to download and test them
[06:17] <wasabi__> yay for my first ubuntu server
[06:17] <lamont> mako: yeah - but that involves remembering my password... :-(
[06:18] <mako> lamont: you can have your passwords regenerated and mailed
[06:21] <mdz> mvo: nessus-plugins?
[06:24] <mvo> mdz: yes, I contacted upstream about the non-frees of the plugins and he claims that we can't distribute them. only the "nessus-plugins-gpl-2.2.3" is distriubtable according to him. I would suggest to sync nessus-plugins from debian/unstable, they removed all the non-free bits already. details are in #5737 and I can forward you the answer from Renaud (if you are interessted)
[06:25] <mdz> mvo: will the plugins from unstable work with our nessus?
[06:25] <aj> what's jdub's actual role/title in ubuntu?
[06:26] <Mithrandir> RM, iirc
[06:26] <mdz> aj: "release manager" at last count, but we're fairly fluid about this sort of thing at the moment
[06:26] <aj> ta
[06:26] <mvo> mdz: apparently, I updated the package and tested it. I also looked over the changed and it looks like nothing changed that could break the scripts from 2.2.0 to 2.2.3. I can double check tonight again. 
[06:26] <Mithrandir> and "dog dragging shiny stuff back home, stuffing it into the distribution, breaking it", I think.
[06:27] <mdz> mvo: ok, let's plan to sync it after preview
[06:28] <pitti> lamont: did you get my mail regarding blacklisting kde-i18n-*?
[06:28] <mvo> mdz: sounds good, thanks. I'll double check again tonight/tomorrow morning if it does not break anything
[06:28] <lamont> pitti: and replied
[06:28] <pitti> lamont: in case you didn't do it yet, there is another package that needs blacklisting: iso-codes
[06:28] <pitti> lamont: oh, reading mail now
[06:28] <lamont> grumble
[06:28] <pitti> lamont: sorry
[06:29] <Kamion> aj: I'm sure he also used to be desktop team leader, except according to the web site that seems to be one "Gill Bates" now
[06:30] <Kamion> god, how do I look at the history of a page in plone?
[06:33] <mdz> Kamion: cry
[06:33] <Mithrandir> you could probably run less on the zodb.
[06:35] <Kamion> GO ZOPE
[06:53] <tseng> jdub: oh hey, in the never ending quest to get rml to bear your seed
[06:54] <tseng> jdub: do you think he would be interested in making gamin <3 inotify?
[06:55] <sabdfl> erm... moin isn't exactly going to keep that Gill bitch at bay, you know
[06:57] <tseng> elmo: any chance you could sync f-spot 0.0.10 from sid? tia
[06:57] <sabdfl> mdz: w.r.t. dvd images, as long as they get some testing before final, i don't mind
[06:57] <sabdfl> the dvd images will be the ones people can choose to cover the costs of shipping and production on, so it would be awkward if they had poorer QA
[06:58] <T-Bone> hi sabdfl!
[06:58] <mdz> sabdfl: very few of us have the bandwidth to iteratively test them
[07:01] <dredg> fantastic.
[07:01] <T-Bone> Mithrandir, doko: anything new wrt lib32gcc1? :)
[07:02] <Kamion> mdz: new DVD images up
[07:02] <mdz> Kamion: old one still rsyncing
[07:02] <mdz> eek
[07:02] <mdz>   1719225600  62%   15.65kB/s   18:12:59
[07:03] <T-Bone> yum
[07:03] <sabdfl> mdz: let's do a DVD in two weeks when the packages themselves are really stable
[07:04] <mdz> ok
[07:04] <mdz> no DVD release for preview
[07:04] <sabdfl> or just announce what's there now, and make changes without rebuilding the DVD, and just test one DVD per week
[07:04] <sabdfl> your call
[07:04] <mdz> I don't think DVD is important for preview
[07:04] <mdz> and it certainly won't help the bandwidth problem
[07:05] <fabbione> acutally
[07:05] <fabbione> if we build the dvd daily the rsync would be way faster
[07:05] <fabbione> on a weekly base the changes are too big and rsync is useless
[07:05] <fabbione> (or almost)
[07:05] <T-Bone> assuming they're built rsync-friendly... Haven't followed that issue, tho
[07:06] <Kamion> they're as rsync-friendly as the CDs
[07:06] <Kamion> which is pretty friendly
[07:06] <fabbione> anyway.. i need to go and cook dinner... wife is calling :-)
[07:06] <T-Bone> lol
[07:06] <Kamion> I could build the DVD daily, but I'm afraid elmo would kill me for the disk space usage
[07:06] <Kamion> and I really don't think people would actually download and test it daily
[07:07] <T-Bone> indeed
[07:07] <Kamion> maybe somewhere in between would be better, although crontab syntax gets awkward then :)
[07:07] <fabbione> Kamion: indeed, but we can rsync daily.. that would make the time to sync to the latest much shorter
[07:07] <Kamion> every Saturday and every Wednesday, or something
[07:08] <fabbione> Kamion: what about a daily and we keep a shorter amount of previous-days stored?
[07:08] <fabbione> like only one or two days?
[07:08] <pitti> elmo: here?
[07:08] <fabbione> sorry.. i really need to go
[07:08] <Kamion> fabbione: possible, I guess
[07:09] <fabbione> Kamion: just an idea.. you decide ;)
[07:10] <Kamion> I'll certainly think about it :)
[07:14] <lamont> Kamion: combo dvd == kubuntu+ubuntu?
[07:14] <lamont> or live+install?
[07:14] <Kamion> live+install
[07:14] <Kamion> don't really have the technology for kubuntu+ubuntu to be useful yet
[07:14] <Kamion> (no means to allow picking one at install time)
[07:15] <mdz> I'm getting totally crap transfer rates from cdimage now
[07:15] <mdz> are elmo and thom up to no good?
[07:15] <mdz> fabbione: I was rsyncing against a concatenation of the daily install+live CDs :-)
[07:15] <Riddell> Kamion: some people like to install both
[07:16] <lamont> Kamion: an ubuntu isnstall+live dvd that happened to have kubuntu-desktop and it's depends on the dvd as well would be really nice for release  - hell, for that matter, I'm in favor of slapping main on the dvd... but that's just me
[07:16] <Kamion> Riddell: we don't have the installer tech yet to do that either :)
[07:16] <Kamion> lamont: I'd have to do something like concatenating germinate output
[07:16] <mdz> elmo does that already, so there's code
[07:16] <Kamion> the original intention was to have main on the DVD, but then kubuntu happened :-)
[07:17] <Kamion> at the moment it's just Ubuntu supported
[07:17] <Kamion> lamont: but I agree with you, it'd be nice
[07:17] <mdz> seb128: gtkhtml accepted
[07:18] <lamont> Kamion: ubuntu+kubuntu > 4GB?
[07:18] <jon1012> hello everybody :)
[07:18] <lamont> Kamion: kubuntu is making me rethink my home mirror as well: main-> ubuntu-supported
[07:19] <ogra> 7join #ubuntu-meeting
[07:19] <ogra> ehe
[07:20] <Kamion> lamont: not sure
[07:20] <Kamion> grr. right, that's it, I'm fixing that stupid base-config bug when the desktop install fails
[07:21] <mdz> Kamion: the one where it dumps you into aptitude? :-P
[07:22] <Kamion> no, the one where it dumps you into aptitude without fixing your sources.list first
[07:22] <mdz> I really don't see the point of launching aptitude
[07:23] <Kamion> dumping you into aptitude is better than dumping you at a shell prompt
[07:23] <mdz> if the user knows how to get around in aptitude, they know how to launch it too
[07:23] <mdz> marginally
[07:23] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: ia32-libs will make a lib32gcc1 package on ia64 only.  It's freaking ugly, but it should work fine.  I haven't sat down and coded it, but it should be easy enough.
[07:23] <Kamion> I don't think that's true; I realise aptitude's UI is complex madness, but at least it *has* a UI and you stand some chance of discovering what to do
[07:23] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: anything you want, as long as it works :)
[07:24] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: need Nekkid up?
[07:24] <mdz> seb128: you said +1 hour 4 hours ago; does that mean you're finished?
[07:24] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: not really, no.
[07:24] <T-Bone> k
[07:24] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: not at the moment, at least.  I'm making dinner now anyhow
[07:24] <T-Bone> hehe ok
[07:25] <Kamion> mdz: so what should I do about this live CD isolinux options thing?
[07:25] <seb128> mdz: if there is no ftbfs that's fine with me
[07:25] <mdz> Kamion: I'm happy with it as-is until overridden by sabdfl
[07:25] <Kamion> my preferred option is to add a non-default 'auto' boot option that boots into US English, and document that on the front screen
[07:25] <mdz> seb128: I guess we need to rebuild evolution for the new gtkhtml?
[07:25] <seb128> mdz: there is a new gdm minor release but I would like to run it some time before pushing it
[07:26] <seb128> mdz: that should be done 
[07:26] <Kamion> ('auto' rather than 'english' or whatever because I don't want the implication to be that we intend to create automatic boot options for every language)
[07:26] <seb128> mdz: archive is lagging ?
[07:26] <mdz> seb128: gtkhtml was in queue/new
[07:26] <seb128> en evo has a versionned build-dep on it
[07:27] <mdz> lamont: is evo auto-depwaited?
[07:27] <mdz> lamont: if not, please retry it
[07:28] <lamont> mdz: no email here - will check
[07:28] <mdz> lamont: hmm, s/retry/dep-wait/, gtkhtml is in queue/accepted
[07:28] <mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/e/evolution/2.2.0-0ubuntu1/evolution_2.2.0-0ubuntu1_20050308-1440-i386-failed
[07:29] <lamont> mdz: gtkhtml3.6 is new
[07:29] <lamont> will auto-launch once that's in the archive
[07:33] <mdz> lamont: it already is
[07:33] <mdz> see above
[07:33] <mdz> that is to say, it was new
[07:34] <mdz> it is new no longer
[07:34] <mdz> but is not in the archive yet
[07:34] <mdz> oh, yes it is
[07:34] <lamont> should be now...
[07:35] <Keybuk> mdz: we almost certainly want to sync libtool 1.5.6-5 from Debian
[07:35] <mdz> Keybuk: let's talk about itafter preview, and after it actually enters Debian
[07:36] <Kamion> doesn't even seem to be in the queue yet
[07:37] <Keybuk> ok :)  but seb128 probably won't be able to build libgnomevfs2 without it :)
[07:37] <Keybuk> Kamion: it's just uploading to ftp-master now
[07:37] <seb128> Keybuk: I don't relibtoolize gnome-vfs2 :)
[07:37] <seb128> Keybuk: gnome-vfs2 2.10 is in hoary since yesterday
[07:38] <Keybuk> fair enough; fixes the "1000 is not a non-negative integer" bug anyhoo
[07:38] <xadas> hi all, i want to send some hw data but ubuntu hw manager doesn't work. [Please wait while the hardware data gets prepared]  (10 minutes and nothing)
[07:39] <mdz> xadas: we aren't ready to receive that data yet
[07:39] <xadas> mdz: thx
[07:40] <mdz> xadas: thanks for testing, though.  we'll make an announcement about it when we're ready to receive submissions
[07:42] <pitti> thom: here?
[07:55] <mdz> lamont: attempting kubuntu livefs builds now; let me know how they turn out
[08:00] <xadas> bug: run gedit->undock toolbar->release it somewhere / now try to dock it back :-) bug in gnome?. Same with gnome-vim
[08:02] <bluefoxicy> WARNING: Failed to parse default value `(-,)' for schema (/schemas/apps/gnome-terminal/global/active_encodings)
[08:02] <bluefoxicy> can someone tell me what language that is?
[08:03] <bluefoxicy> it looks hebrew?
[08:17] <mdz> lamont: looks like all of them have exited; did we get any successes?
[08:18] <lamont> Errors were encountered while processing:
[08:18] <lamont>  /var/cache/apt/archives/konq-plugins_4%3a3.3.2-1ubuntu1_i386.deb
[08:18] <lamont>  /var/cache/apt/archives/kdeartwork-style_4%3a3.3.2-1ubuntu2_i386.deb
[08:18] <lamont>  /var/cache/apt/archives/kdeartwork-theme-window_4%3a3.3.2-1ubuntu2_i386.deb
[08:18] <lamont> which I believe are 3 of the 4 bugs from last night...
[08:19] <Riddell> lamont: we could remove kdeaddons and kdeartwork from the seed
[08:19] <lamont> 7304-7306
[08:20] <lamont> mdz: want me to turn the crank on that?
[08:21] <mdz> lamont: which?
 lamont: we could remove kdeaddons and kdeartwork from the seed\
[08:21] <lamont> that
[08:21] <mdz> sure, move them to supported
[08:23] <lamont> grumble.  where are the kubuntu seeds?
[08:25] <Riddell> lamont: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/kubuntu-hoary/
[08:28] <lamont> committed... now how long do we need to wait mdz?
[08:28] <mdz> lamont: max 17 minutes, or nag Kamion
[08:34] <lamont> hrm.. I have write access to the files, but not to lots and lots of stuff under {arch}
[08:34] <abelli> smurfix: ping
[08:35] <smurfix> abelli: here
[08:35] <lamont> and he beat me to it
[08:37] <sabdfl> Kamion: let's go with your approach to the isolinux live cd options, see if that makes silbs happy
[08:37] <sabdfl> did morphix use isolinux too, or different boot system altogether?
[08:38] <dredg> morphix used grub afaik
[08:38] <lamont> kubuntu-meta_0.33 uploaded
[08:38] <lamont> mdz: if cron.daily has finished, you could kick it again
[08:39] <lamont> well, after cron.hourly, of course
[08:39] <mdz> sabdfl: yes, morphix used grub
[08:40] <mdz> sabdfl: which is the reason why it failed to boot on a variety of hardware where the Hoary live CD works
[08:40] <mdz> (one of the reasons)
[08:41] <sabdfl> ok. does anyone on our team track grub2?
[08:41] <mdz> jbailey does
[08:41] <mdz> in fact he uses it to boot his desktop, I think
[08:41] <mdz> (ppc)
[08:42] <mdz> speaking of which, where is jbailey?  he had connectivity issues at home, but was settled into a cafe last I checked
[08:42] <sabdfl> he's out, will you ask him to keep us in the loop s we can adopt grub2 when its ready?
[08:42] <T-Bone> he does
[08:42] <T-Bone> but grub2 seems rather buggy afaict. And for ppc, it lacks quite a few essential features, like various FS support
[08:43] <T-Bone> grub2 can't boot from anything else than ext2/ext3 fs, last time i checked
[08:43] <mdz> sabdfl: yeah, from what I've heard, it is not a likely candidate for bendy/breezy/breedy/etc.
[08:44] <sabdfl> ok
[08:45] <dredg> bouncy?
[08:45] <seb128> pitti: you can kick new language-packs if you want :)
[08:45] <lamont> dredg: well, b0rky is right out. :-)
[08:45] <seb128> pitti: GNOME 2.10 stuff for preview are ok
[08:46] <lamont> Trying patch debian/patches/02_disable_no_undefined.diff at level
[08:46] <lamont> +0...1...2...failure.
[08:47] <mdz> lamont: ->#kubuntu-devel, please
[08:47] <lamont> doh
[08:47] <mdz> lamont: how big a project would it be to email failures to the uploader?
[08:48] <daniels> mdz: i suppose it would involve knowledge of whether it's an actual upload or whether it's been brought in via the autoimporter
[08:48] <pitti> seb128: I wait until tomorrow
[08:48] <lamont> mdz: that's an archive project
[08:48] <pitti> seb128: and I have to update the import scripts before
[08:48] <lamont> well, maybe not.
[08:49] <mdz> daniels: uploader if they're in the whitelist, otherwise a mailing list or such
[08:49] <lamont> mdz: the only worry would be to make sure that the uploader was the correct email, and not someone else (like the debian developer...)
[08:49] <mdz> lamont: I think the whitelist should take care of that
[08:49] <lamont> yeah
[08:49] <lamont> using katie's whitelist?
[08:49] <mdz> and a little gzip+MIME love to make the sizes more reasonable
[08:49] <mdz> right
[08:50] <lamont> bzip2, dude. :-)
[08:50] <seb128> pitti: k
[08:51] <lamont> mdz: there does exist a little bit of confusion that way, because of the arch: all packages (which fail on 3/4 of the architectures, most of the time - sometimes they get built before the !i386 machines get to them..)
[08:51] <lamont> and, of course, for the normal ftbfs failure, you'll get 4 copies of the failure.
[08:52] <lamont> but beyond that, it shouldn't be too difficult
[08:54] <lamont> mdz: hrm... logfile doesn't have the uploader address in it... that makes things a bit more ugly, at least for my side of things.
[08:59] <tritium> mako, I got my key signed.  I'm strongly connnected now :)
[08:59] <lamont> mdz: and note that our, um, fix, is rather abusive to emacs21, and means anyone hacking on it needs to go through a bit of pain.
[08:59] <lamont> specifically, reversing our fix, debian/rules clean, reapply our fix.  or evilness happens.
[09:13] <Kamion> sabdfl: ok, will do
[09:13] <sabdfl> cool
[09:15] <mdz> lamont: kubuntu-live*4 in queue/accepted
[09:16] <lamont> mdz: and awaiting cron.daily?
[09:16] <mdz> lamont: yep
[09:16] <mdz> Kamion: shall we put together a preview candidate and call for testing?
[09:16] <mdz> looks like everything is in
[09:16] <mdz> oh, except langpacks
[09:17] <mdz> pitti: when do you expect to have updated langpacks uploaded?
[09:17] <mdz> pitti: bod seems to have a fix for the perl FTBFS issue, good
[09:19] <Kamion> mdz: hang on, bit of stuff still to do for this live CD thing
[09:20] <daniels> mdz: i'll be out all day; working a bit while I'm out, but doing the bulk of my work later on in the day
[09:20] <daniels> mdz: (bulk of my work -> triaging a hojillion bugs)
[09:22] <mdz> daniels: the only one I'm curious about for preview is the german keymap one
[09:24] <daniels> mdz: still haven't worked that out, but will probe further
[09:24] <Kamion> the fact that we're using pc104/pc105 keymaps on powerpc worries me in general
[09:24] <Kamion> shouldn't it be macintosh?
[09:25] <thom> Kamion: to get torrents to work right and be auto-triggered we need a third, minimal rsync target; basically just current for daily and sounders/arrays/whatever, and releases
[09:25] <mdz> dunno
[09:25] <thom> is that do-able?
[09:25] <mdz> my keyboard is a pc105 and I use it with a G4
[09:26] <daniels> Kamion: my understanding was that modern (non-adb-based) macs used pc105 just as well as, if not better than, macintosh
[09:26] <Kamion> thom: noted, I'll have a look
[09:26] <mdz> thom: can we do it with --exclude/--include?
[09:26] <Kamion> daniels: hm, ok
[09:26] <Kamion> mdz: not with restricted ssh keys, I imagine
[09:27] <Kamion> hardlinked rsync targets are doable
[09:27] <daniels> Kamion: happy to be proven wrong, however
[09:28] <Kamion> grr, I'm beginning to run out of kernel argument space
[09:34] <lamont> Kamion: that's tunable, yes?
[09:34] <Kamion> nope, hardcoded in the kernel
[09:34] <Kamion> they increased it in 2.6.11, though, I think
[09:35] <Kamion> if I could use a preseed file, this would be saner, but currently I can't for stuff that early
[09:35] <Kamion> should be able to fix that in breezy though
[09:46] <Kamion> sabdfl: hmm. This is more problematic than I thought; the new keyboard chooser is more difficult to preseed (partly because the raw keyboard names differ between AT and USB keyboards), and trying to do so causes me to run out of kernel argument space. I have a strategy to fix it (alter the initrd-preseed package to allow selectable preseed files in the initrd, and go from there), but I think it's best left until afte
[09:46] <Kamion> although, hm, I could possibly use kickstart to do it
[09:46] <Kamion> wonder if that would work
[09:47] <lamont> mdz: i386 is building locales
[09:47] <mdz> lamont: yay!
[09:47] <mdz> lamont: are the others chugging away?
[09:47] <Kamion> mdz: fancy a live CD mode that gets a Kickstart file off the CD-ROM as its first action? :-)
[09:48] <Kamion> it'd probably actually work
[09:48] <mdz> Kamion: sounds like a good plan for breezy
[09:48] <Kamion> ... oh, except that kickseed only preseeds console-keymaps-at/keymap, not the others; that was silly of me
[09:48] <Kamion> ok, we'll go with my previous plan for post-preview then if there are no objections
[09:49] <lamont> mdz: well, weddell finished already, but we kinda expected that.... :-)
[09:49] <mdz> I've removed weddell from my script :-P
[09:49] <mdz> temporarily, of course
[09:49] <mdz> because I know there are legions of ia64 users hungry for live CDs
[09:50] <thom> i can't believe there are legions of hungry ia64 users - they can use the fricking machine to cook on without problems
[09:51] <lamont> thom: itanium was the hottest chip on the market when it shipped.
[09:51] <mdz> it still is
[09:51] <mdz> fifty thousand watts of mind-boggling slowness
[09:52] <lamont> or maybe it was some other vendor's custom CPU.  can't remember
[09:52] <pitti> mdz: I'm still at updating the langpack-o-matic scripts (implementing new spec), but I can generate new packs at any time
[09:52] <thom> lamont: amd64 is pretty cool actually
[09:52] <lamont> yeah - was someone's...
[09:52] <mdz> > The world's first live CD that allows users to save their data back to the CD has been born.
[09:52] <mdz> that's actually a damn fine idea
[09:52] <pitti> mdz: however, I'd like to wait until all packages are uploaded
[09:52] <Kamion> mdz: terrifying
[09:52] <pitti> mdz: perl> bod pinged me nad there is a new sid upload; will do this tomorrow
[09:52] <Kamion> if the burn goes wrong, you're toast
[09:52] <lamont> mdz: uh... that scares me...
[09:53] <thom> it'd be an impressive trick for a cd-r...
[09:53] <mdz> Kamion: yeah, it gets rid of that pesky "no risk" live CD angle
[09:53] <Kamion> unless it does weird multisession tricks
[09:53] <mdz> I'm sure it does multisession
[09:53] <mdz> but I think that if you screw that up, you're still toast
[09:53] <lamont> brings new meanings to "having a backup"
[09:54] <Kamion> "a backup system, somewhere else"
[09:54] <lamont> heh
[09:56] <lamont> i386 and powerpc restarted, this time they should actually get 0.33 :-(
[09:58] <mdz> er
[09:58] <mdz> lamont: how did they get that far if they didn't get 0.33?
[09:59] <pitti> thom: can you install packages in the dchroots?
[10:00] <lamont> they die _installing_ kubuntu-desktop, not before
[10:00] <lamont> duh :-(
[10:00] <lamont> kinda woke me up too.
[10:00] <pitti> elmo: ping
[10:00] <elmo> pitti: ?
[10:00] <pitti> elmo: can you please install me some build-dependencies in concordia's hoary dchroot?
[10:01] <pitti> elmo: I need the build-deps for http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/todo-rebuild.txt
[10:01] <pitti> elmo: this is the list of packages that failed to build today
[10:03] <sabdfl> can it put "it will probably work" on the Quotes page?
[10:03] <sabdfl> Kamion: your call
[10:03] <sabdfl> just trying to find low-hanging fruit to make the new livecd *feel* faster, much like the reboot stuff
[10:04] <sabdfl> even though the new tech is much better, it feels like a regression to joe user to have the questions
[10:04] <sabdfl> if there's no low-hanging fruit, don't climb up into the branches on my account at this stage
[10:04] <dholbach> hai mvo
[10:05] <mvo> hey dholbach 
[10:05] <ogra> has anybody else problems with gpg ?
[10:05] <mdz> sabdfl: if it's really that important, there is low-hanging fruit where we can get real performance gains out of the live CD
[10:05] <Kamion> sabdfl: nod, filing a bug to let us track it
[10:06] <mdz> sabdfl: but please not for preview
[10:06] <sabdfl> mdz: np
[10:06] <ogra> i cant sign anything anymore and in  ~/.gnupg i have pubring.gpg~ and pubring.gpg.tmp suddenly, but pubring.gpg has 0 bytes
[10:06] <mdz> I have not yet begun to optimize
[10:06] <Treenaks> ogra: replace pubring.gpg by pubring.gpg~ -- but ONLY if there are no gpg processes running
[10:07] <Treenaks> ogra: (i.e. restore the backup -~ file)
[10:07] <mdz> bear in mind that the new live CD *does* a lot more than the warty one
[10:07] <ogra> Treenaks: i know how to solve it
[10:07] <mdz> if performance is more important, I can turn some of that stuff off
[10:07] <ogra> Treenaks: but this simply shouldnt happen without a good reason....
[10:07] <Treenaks> ogra: like, killall -9 gpg or something
[10:07] <Kamion> #7336
[10:08] <mdz> sabdfl: for example, it automagically configures the panel to have the battery applet if you're on a laptop
[10:08] <mdz> that takes a few seconds
[10:08] <ogra> Treenaks: nope, not running....
[10:09] <dredg> mdz: it depends on what kind of hardware this is being aimed at.
[10:09] <mdz> I could do the user creation stuff with lower-level tools; it takes a long time to load adduser off of the CD
[10:09] <mdz> my focus was on clean design and a reasonable feature set, not performance
[10:10] <lamont> This filesystem will be automatically checked every 31 mounts or
[10:10] <lamont> 180 days, whichever comes first.  Use tune2fs -c or -i to override.
[10:10] <lamont> woot!
[10:10] <ogra> Treenaks: i suspect evo messed it up...
[10:10] <elmo> pitti: done on both chroots
[10:10] <pitti> elmo: thanks
[10:10] <zul> later
[10:10] <lamont> woot filesystem even
[10:11] <mdz> wewy nice
[10:11] <lamont> so amd64 will be done pretty soon - that's the last text before we begin rsync'ing to the (new) filesystem image
[10:12] <mdz> let me know when we're ready to kick off a new set of live CDs
[10:12] <lamont> yeah
[10:12] <lamont> or do you want to know when amd64 is done, since the other 2 are behind by ~20 minutes?
[10:12] <mdz> Kamion: given the deferral of the live CD madn^Wenhancements, can we agree to a freeze and a test cycle?
[10:12] <mdz> lamont: I just want to know when they're all done
[10:13] <lamont> ok
[10:13] <HiddenWolf> is anyone writing up the improvements warty -> hoary ?
[10:13] <Kamion> mdz: yep, certainly. I'm just building Kubuntu install CDs now, as soon as that's finished I'll switch to building Ubuntu stuff
[10:13] <Kamion> mdz: oh, I need a d-i rebuild
[10:13] <Kamion> just kicked one off
[10:13] <mdz> Kamion: better get it in before elmo falls over
[10:14] <mdz> Riddell: kubuntu is the squeaky wheel at the moment :-)
[10:14] <lamont> amd64 compressing
[10:14] <elmo> mdz: don't worry, I've got several server boxes to sleep in - I'm sorted
[10:15] <mdz> elmo: nothing like a warm box after a transatlantic flight
[10:18] <mdz> Riddell: kuickshow and kview are scheduled to move out to universe unless you want them
[10:18] <Kamion> Riddell: you just got there first, is all ;)
[10:18] <Riddell> mdz: out they go please
[10:19] <mdz> lamont: we'll want to roll a new Ubuntu live fs as soon as kubuntu is done
[10:21] <lamont> sure, np
[10:21] <mdz> HiddenWolf: the documentation team has a set of release notes; they're part of the desktop install now
[10:21] <mdz> HiddenWolf: mako is working on a preview release announcement
[10:24] <lamont> mdz: ok to kick the ubuntu livecd image?
[10:24] <lamont> fsimage, that is
[10:25] <lamont> figured I'd let amd64 stay ahead...
[10:25] <mdz> lamont: yep, whenever you're ready
[10:26] <jdub> morning all
[10:26] <thom> no it's not
[10:28] <lamont> mdz: ubuntu builds queued up waiting for the kubuntu build to finish on i386, ppc.  ia64 building
[10:28] <lamont> s/ia64/amd64/
[10:29] <mdz> lamont: how will I know when they're done?
[10:29] <ogra> jdub: morning
[10:29] <Kamion> elmo: d-i builds should be there; can you let me know when they're byhanded, and I'll start a test candidate run?
[10:30] <lamont> wife available. /me stays
[10:32] <T-Bone> lamont: wife exited with status 0? :^)
[10:32] <elmo> Kamion: a ubuntu21?
[10:33] <Kamion> elmo: no, a triggered daily
[10:33] <Kamion> ubuntu20.something
[10:34] <lamont> wow. that's a collection of languages on the livecd
[10:34] <elmo> will that have broken if I didn't process the existing daily build?
[10:35] <Kamion> um. oh.
[10:35] <Kamion> I guess so.
[10:35] <elmo> (to be fair I was over the atlantic at the time it appeared ;)
[10:35] <Kamion> sowwy ...
[10:36] <elmo> I'll process it now and you can try again?
[10:36] <Kamion> ok
[10:36] <Kamion> hopefully w-b won't be too confused by the whole deal
[10:37] <lamont> [ if cron.daily runs after the d-i daily build, but before it is byhand-ed, then a subsequent d-i daily build uses the same binNMU number.  if you launch 2 before cron.daily runs, then it gets the right binNMU number... ] 
[10:37] <lamont> I suppose I could keep state outside of w-b...
[10:37] <lamont> Kamion: do we care enough to tweak this post hoary?
[10:37] <lamont> or post preview, or...
[10:38] <Kamion> I was kind of thinking of writing a katie patch that taught it how to process raw-installer automatically
[10:38] <lamont> btw, what exactly is done with that?
[10:38] <Kamion> which would render that by and large irrelevant
[10:38] <Kamion> with what?
[10:39] <lamont> the d-i upload
[10:39] <lamont> where does the tar.gz go?
[10:39] <Kamion> unpacked into dists/hoary/main/installer-$arch/
[10:39] <lamont> ah, ok
[10:42] <dholbach> elmo: could you please sync zvbi and gtranslator from sid, if you find the time?
[10:42] <mako> mdz: oh wait
[10:42] <mako> mdz: is there a final verdict on architectures we'll be printing up and shiping?
[10:42] <mdz> mako: same as warty
[10:42] <mako> mdz: good
[10:42] <elmo> dholbach: gtranslator is in main - that'll need approval
[10:43] <dholbach> elmo: oh ok... sorry
[10:43] <elmo> dholbach: zvbi done
[10:43] <dholbach> elmo: i'll have another look what the issue with gtranslator was
[10:43] <dholbach> elmo: thanks
[10:47] <smurfix> Kamion: Can you tell me which preseed arguments the keyboard chooser now needs vs. what it needed before? Maybe I can fix that
[10:48] <Kamion> smurfix: kbd-chooser/method="big long string"
[10:49] <Kamion> smurfix: I realise that it can take kbd-chooser/method=us etc., which is cool
[10:49] <Kamion> smurfix: but that doesn't really work in this use case, because console-keymaps-at requires "us" while console-keymaps-usb requires "mac-usb-us"
[10:49] <Kamion> so the keymaps have to be preseeded separately anyway
[10:50] <windows-farhan> question does any of the ubuntu versions have speakup support for the blind so i don't waste a cd burning useless stuff. lol
[10:50] <Kamion> smurfix: as it turns out I doubt kbd-chooser is going to block me, I'll just invent a way to put multiple optional preseed files in the initrd
[10:50] <mdz> lamont: any joy for kubuntu cloops?
[10:50] <windows-farhan> ok..ight
[10:50] <Kamion> windows-farhan: one sec
[10:51] <windows-farhan> k
[10:51] <lamont> kubuntu is happy
[10:51] <mdz> windows-farhan: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AccessibleHoaryLiveCDDerivitive
[10:51] <windows-farhan> wait
[10:51] <windows-farhan> is there a installer version i can grab?
[10:51] <windows-farhan> i wana instal it. 
[10:51] <mdz> windows-farhan: there is not currently an accessible installer
[10:52] <lamont> amd64 is setting up libsane, i386 is building locales, and ppc is chunking along trying to keep up with its big brothers
[10:52] <windows-farhan> uh
[10:52] <mdz> lamont: oh, kubuntu is done x3?
[10:52] <windows-farhan> wiat. how do i actually use this. oh hell i'll go to the website
[10:52] <windows-farhan> thanks
[10:52] <lamont> kubuntu x3
[10:52] <mdz> ok
[10:52] <mdz> Kamion: safe to kick off kubuntu live CD builds?
[10:52] <lamont> ppc is actually downloading ubuntu debs atm
[10:52] <mdz> load average on little looks relatively safe
[10:53] <windows-farhan> crap
[10:53] <windows-farhan> it didn't coppy
[10:53] <Kamion> windows-farhan: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-February/004516.html
[10:53] <windows-farhan> can you throw me that link again? please?
[10:53] <Kamion> mdz: sure
[10:53] <Kamion> windows-farhan: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AccessibleHoaryLiveCDDerivitive
[10:53] <Kamion> sigh, I hate misspelled URLs
[10:53] <Kamion> misspelled wiki pages, rather
[10:54] <mdz> heh, I didn't even notice, I copy/pasted from google
[10:54] <windows-farhan> wow
[10:54] <smurfix> Kamion: OK.
[10:54] <windows-farhan> i'm going to get this. and how?
[10:54] <windows-farhan> hmm
[10:55] <windows-farhan> arg
[10:55] <windows-farhan> the link is broken
[10:56] <mdz> windows-farhan: we're in the middle of some development work right now, please take this over to #ubuntu
[10:59] <mdz> Kamion: hmm
[10:59] <mdz> Kamion: cron.kubuntu-daily-live just failed due to ia64
[10:59] <mdz> Kamion: and didn't go on to try powerpc, which should have worked
[11:01] <Riddell> you can remove kdegames if you need a more space
[11:01] <mdz> 588M hoary-live-amd64.iso  571M hoary-live-i386.iso
[11:01] <mdz> looks OK
[11:01] <Kamion> mdz: damn. ok, I'll look
[11:01] <mdz> Kamion: go ahead and kick off a kubuntu-daily-live build when you're ready
[11:02] <mdz> lamont: ubuntu cloops ready?
[11:02] <Kamion> haha, ok, my new code fell over. whoops
[11:04] <doko> mdz: ok to upload linux-meta to add the avm-fritz-firmware package (fabbione did agree)?
[11:04] <mdz> doko: after preview
[11:05] <doko> I'd like to have at Cebit for presentation, if at all possible
[11:08] <mdz> doko: when is cebit?
[11:08] <lamont> mdz: amd64 done, i386 in partimage, ppc in locale generation
[11:11] <doko> starting this thursday, I'm there friday, as a fallback I can present from a notebook, but the cd as a handout would be nice.
[11:11] <mdz> Kamion: looks good
[11:13] <mdz> 565M hoary-live-amd64.iso   43M hoary-live-ia64.iso
[11:13] <mdz> 550M hoary-live-i386.iso   622M hoary-live-powerpc.iso
[11:13] <mdz> two guesses which one is broken
[11:13] <dholbach> seb128: libxml++2.6 is universe, so no worries for you anymore :-)
[11:13] <seb128> dholbach: cool
[11:13] <Kamion> I wonder why it published ia64
[11:14] <Kamion> oh, it had a cloop, it was just empty
[11:17] <pitti> seb128: gwenview's po file layout in the source package does not fit into my scripts; this one must stay obsolete, I'm afraid
[11:17] <seb128> pitti: is that a package name ?
[11:17] <seb128> dunno about it
[11:17] <elmo> it's a kde thing
[11:18] <T-Bone> Kamion: i expect that the cloop issue to be resolved when we'll have proper language-support on ia64. I wonder whether the firefox locale issue is just pending ooffice support, actually
[11:18] <lamont> mdz: i386,amd64 done.  ppc in scrollkeeper purgatory
[11:18] <pitti> seb128: source package name
[11:18] <T-Bone> (sort of)
[11:18] <Kamion> mdz: ok, that shouldn't happen again
[11:18] <pitti> seb128: oh yes, seems to belong to kde
[11:18] <seb128> pitti: k, I don't know about it, so I don't care :p
[11:18] <elmo> Kamion: oh, crap, sorry, I forgot to mention, you can d-i at will
[11:18] <pitti> seb128: never mind, then
[11:18] <elmo> \o/
[11:19] <pitti> mdz: when shall I do new langpacks? now or tomorrow (i. e. in about 10 hours)?
[11:19] <pitti> Kamion: ^
[11:19] <mdz> pitti: now would be best, if possible
[11:19] <mdz> seb128 says he is finished with GNOME
[11:19] <pitti> mdz: they are still not perfect, but should do pretty well
[11:20] <pitti> mdz: I'm almost inclined to do new base packages... 
[11:20] <Kamion> elmo: cool, running now
[11:21] <elmo> mdz: oh no! who are we going to sucker into doing that insane number of uploads now??
[11:21] <pitti> elmo: I can wait a bit if necessary
[11:21] <elmo> pitti: ? huh?  I was trolling mdz, poorly, ignore me
[11:21] <pitti> elmo: or just do new update packages (which means wasting space, but the heck with it)
[11:25] <mdz> jbailey: can you provide any insight on the canadian keyboard layout issue on ubuntu-devel?
[11:26] <jbailey> Lemme look.  I had let u-d slip over the last 2 days.
[11:27] <mdz> elmo: when would be the best time for the mirror hit to regenerate new base langpacks?
[11:27] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/scratch/kubuntu/live$ ls
[11:27] <Kamion> amd64.cloop  amd64.manifest  i386.cloop  i386.manifest  powerpc.cloop  powerpc.manifest
[11:27] <Kamion> much better
[11:27] <Kamion> elmo: d-i builds ready for love
[11:29] <jbailey> mdz: Ah.  Those are French Canadian keyboards, and I don't think they're in common usage, but I haven't done any work in hardcore French areas.  Even the Alliance Franaise in Toronto doesn't use those.
[11:29] <elmo> mdz: for who?  us or them?  for them, doesn't matter - for us, sometime not near an array/milestone release
[11:29] <jbailey> (still working my way through the thread)
[11:29] <mdz> pitti: sounds like today is better than tomorrow
[11:29] <pitti> mdz: I'm already at it
[11:30] <pitti> mdz: however, there are so many updates, I just build a clean set of new base packages and empty updates
[11:30] <mdz> jbailey: I think it comes down to a question of nomenclature
[11:30] <mdz> jbailey: and choosing the best default
[11:30] <mdz> pitti: right, that's what I meant
[11:31] <pitti> mdz: okay, please distract elmo for a minute, I push the trigger now :-)
[11:32] <mdz> elmo: uh, why is load on jackass 45.3?
[11:32] <elmo> it's not?
[11:32] <mdz> pitti: QUICKLY
[11:32] <elmo> bah
[11:32] <mdz> my distraction did not last very long
[11:32] <elmo> y'all suck
[11:32] <T-Bone> lol
[11:32] <elmo> mdz: next time choose a host I won't have multiple shells open on
[11:33] <Loevborg> the old two-headed monkey trick usually works better.
[11:33] <Kamion> hahaha
[11:33] <pitti> Loevborg: two heads? that's a new one then
[11:33] <mdz> elmo: I don't have accounts on machines like that, it wouldn't be convincing
[11:33] <mdz> lamont: all done?
[11:34] <lamont> ppc is in partimage
[11:34] <lamont> figure about 5-10 more minutes
[11:34] <mdz> ppc sure does take its time
[11:34] <lamont> eta is 3 min on the partimage restore, then we have to compress.
[11:35] <pitti> mdz: uploads done
[11:35] <mdz> I suppose slow is better than randomly-segfaulting
[11:36] <lamont> mdz: that's 'slow and occasionally SIGILLing'
[11:36] <lamont> although not so much recently
[11:36] <lamont> or maybe not - I masked myself from seeing that... 
[11:37] <Kamion> heh. "SIGILL? what SIGILL?"
[11:38] <ari> it must be sick
[11:38] <lamont> Kamion: the autodepwaiter tells those to retry. :-)
[11:38] <elmo> Kamion: done
[11:47] <lamont> mdz: go
[11:47] <mdz> lamont: going
[11:49] <Kamion> elmo: thanks
[11:49] <Kamion> hey, locking in a cdimage script
[11:49] <Kamion> THAT MUST BE REMOVED IMMEDIATELY
[11:51] <Kamion> lamont: how come the ia64 d-i dailies seem to start at .200503080, etc.?
[11:51] <mdz> Kamion: oop, did I step on your toes?
[11:51] <elmo> kamion: I don't know, but it's driving me nuts
[11:52] <lamont> Kamion: because when it ran, there was a .YYYYMMDD already in existance sometime in the past, on YYYYMMDD
[11:52] <lamont> the only way to do a second d-i build that day is to either steal tomorrow, or add a trailing 0.  once you add the trailing zero, you can't remove it.
[11:53] <lamont> and, no, you only have _DIGITS_ to use in that field
[11:53] <Kamion> mdz: no, I was just running anonftpsync to see what installer-* looked like
[11:53] <Kamion> lamont: um, the sequence in daily-installer-ia64 is 200503070, 200503080, 200503081
[11:53] <Kamion> lamont: I don't see how that tallies?
[11:54] <Kamion> lamont: oh, never mind, I understand
[11:54] <Kamion> 200503081 > 20050309
[11:54] <lamont> yeah, somewhere back when we did '20050306' and 200503060
[11:54] <lamont> exactly
[11:54] <lamont> therefore it's 200503090
[11:55] <lamont> and if it causes too much stress, then you do a sourceful upload
[11:56] <Kamion> lamont: right, you told me this a while back, but I forgot the explanation 'cos it's, err, so obvious. :-)
[11:57] <lamont> ugly hacks have a way of compounding themselvesd
[11:58] <lamont> Kamion: if you want, I could change it to a consistant YYYYMMDDHHmm :0)
[11:58] <Kamion> lamont: let's not, eh? :)
[11:58] <lamont> 'k.
[11:59] <Kamion> mdz: live seems done, I've kicked an install CD build
[12:00] <Kamion> that'll be a while, so I'm taking a break, back in an hour or so