[03:35] <fabbione> thom: ping?
[03:35] <fabbione> ops
[04:55] <mako> greetings everyone!
[04:56] <joaocruz> hello!
[04:56] <zul> hey mako
[05:00] <mako> alright.. let me round up the rest of the troops
[05:00] <mako> Kamion: around?
[05:00] <Kamion> oh, damn, I had mail to reply to before the CC meeting ...
[05:00] <Kamion> yes
[05:01] <mako> quickly quickly :)
[05:01] <mako> Kamion: there's still time
[05:02] <pitti> Hi
[05:02] <sabdfl> hello all
[05:02] <sabdfl> sorry i'm late
[05:03] <amu> moins
[05:03] <fabbione> hi
[05:03] <mvo> hi
[05:03] <mako> no problem
[05:03] <dholbach> hi
[05:03] <mako> there's not a huge amount of new things on the agenda this week
[05:03] <seb128> hey
[05:03] <sabdfl> everybody here from the CC?
[05:03] <sabdfl> who do we have from the TB as well?
[05:03] <mako> haven't heard from elmo yet
[05:03] <mako> but i just messaged him
[05:03] <Mithrandir> elmo is on a plane, isn't he?
[05:03] <joaocruz> ubuntu-pt here
[05:03] <sabdfl> thom: could you nudge elmo please?
[05:04] <mako> Mithrandir: where would he be on a plane to?
[05:04] <Mithrandir> mako: London, I imagine
[05:04] <sabdfl> if elmo's on a plane it's because he found my wallet in my flat an hour ago :-)
[05:04] <Kamion> haha
[05:04] <Kamion> ok :)
[05:04] <sabdfl> BaHAmas!
[05:04] <fabbione> ahahah
[05:04] <Mithrandir> sabdfl :)
[05:04] <sabdfl> so how does the agenda look?
[05:04] <mako> shortish.. which is good because i think we're all pretty swamped at the moemnt
[05:05] <sabdfl> ok
[05:05] <mako> smurfix: you around?
[05:05] <sabdfl>     LogiotatidisGiorgos       TimoJyrinki / FinnishTeam        KarianneGrnningster (Simira) / Ubuntu Norway Community       JoaoCruz / PortugueseTeam    
[05:05] <sabdfl> any of these guys here?
[05:05] <joaocruz> ubuntu-pt here
[05:05] <mako> smurfix seems to be slightly allergic to this meeting time
[05:05] <Mirv> I'm (timo) here again
[05:05] <Mithrandir> Karianne is not a guy, but I'll wake her.
[05:05] <sabdfl> :-)
[05:06] <sabdfl> greetings joaocruz
[05:06] <joaocruz> greetings
[05:06] <fabbione> ohi joaocruz 
[05:06] <joaocruz> hey
[05:06] <mako> joaocruz: ola
[05:06] <sabdfl> anything we can do to help your plans for portugal?
[05:06] <Mithrandir> Karianne will be around in a couple of minutes
[05:07] <sabdfl> big thing that's coming up on our side is a mass import of hoary PO's into Rosetta, so if you have translation-oriented mates it would be great to start getting them ready
[05:07] <joaocruz> we started gathering a team, and setup up our wiki page
[05:07] <joaocruz> I had asked smurfix for a server to host the wiki
[05:07] <sabdfl> we will have only a short time to polish any untranslated strings - portuguese should be pretty good right out the block
[05:07] <mako> Mirv: we should have removed you from the agenda
[05:07] <opi> hi guys
[05:07] <mako> Mirv: that that we don't like hearing from you but we don't need to have the same conversatino every two weeks :)
[05:08] <sabdfl> hey opi
[05:08] <sabdfl> ok, so one wiki
[05:08] <mako> opi: oi!
[05:08] <opi> I glad I make it, I had to run agains the wind and snow
[05:08] <sabdfl> i guess that's something we need a plan for, for all the loco teams
[05:08] <opi> oi makosan
[05:08] <Mirv> mako: yes, I thought I'd pop up as I was still there :) and there was some talk that a correct guy (handling locoteam stuff) wasn't around the last time
[05:09] <sabdfl> mako: do you think it would help if we setup a rackspace or other type server, gave some sort of admin to smurfix and a loco-coordinators team, and let the guys go wild on that?
[05:09] <Simira> I'm here
[05:09] <sabdfl> don't let elmo hear me say that, but since he's not here...
[05:09] <opi> well, too bad smurfix is away
[05:09] <mako> sabdfl: i'm not entirely clear how how smurfix is doing this now actually.. but yes. it might be good to give a dedicated space for the loco sites, etc
[05:10] <sabdfl> what's that xen-based or other virtual-pc  based hosting company?
[05:10] <mako> sabdfl: there are loads of them
[05:10] <opi> linode.org? )
[05:10] <Riddell> bytemark
[05:10] <sabdfl> linode, that's the one
[05:10] <mako> sabdfl: but linode is the one that does ubuntu
[05:10] <mako> sabdfl: although i suspect there will be many more ubuntu uml places soon
[05:10] <sabdfl> would we consider anything else? :-)
[05:10] <mako> granted :)
[05:10] <sabdfl> debian, of course
[05:10] <opi> actualy, I was thinking about setting a Ubuntu server for Polish team members at my workplace
[05:10] <sabdfl> and that should be easy to find
[05:11] <sabdfl> opi - it will likely always be easier if you have total control of the box
[05:11] <sabdfl> but we could maybe offer a standard low-cost low-bandwidth option to all the LoCo teams
[05:11] <sabdfl> Kamion: ?
[05:11] <mako> right, we don't want to keep teams from doing what they are comfortable doing.. but for people that need the help, we should offer it
[05:11] <opi> sabdfl: I would. I have one Ubuntu server there, but I can't let people outside company use it
[05:12] <Kamion> sabdfl: yes?
[05:12] <opi> but my boss will not mind to host another ubuntu box, we have a Ubuntu mirror allready ;)
[05:12] <mako> Simira: is this something that would interest you?
[05:12] <mako> Simira: or the norweigan people since you're now empowered to speak for them
[05:12] <sabdfl> Kamion: think it's a good idea to have a standard hosting option for the loco's that doesn't involve our admins?
[05:13] <opi> Simira: claim for ubuntu-no.org :)
[05:13] <Mithrandir> opi: it's already claimed.
[05:13] <mako> smurfix is alread offering something like this
[05:13] <Mithrandir> opi: and we have ubuntu.no
[05:13] <Kamion> sabdfl: seems like that'd depend mostly on whether our admins are feeling overworked dealing with loco stuff?
[05:13] <Mithrandir> which is pointing to the right place.
[05:13] <mako> ideally, i'd like having the loco team coordinator handle this sort of stuff
[05:14] <joaocruz> smurfix mentioned he was going to set up a server and I would admin part of it
[05:14] <opi> yes, our Wiki site is hosted at Smurfix server
[05:14] <sabdfl> i'm mainly thinking that this would give them the freedom to choose wiki / cms / scripting language (lua :-) etc
[05:14] <mako> yeah, absolutely
[05:14] <Kamion> certainly something standard that can be rolled out identically for each loco without much effort would be a good thing
[05:14] <sabdfl> they might well share work between them
[05:14] <opi> and this would take lots of load from admins
[05:14] <Kamion> I mean identically to start with
[05:14] <sabdfl> ok, i'll look into it
[05:14] <mako> but the admin contact could be the loco team coordinator
[05:14] <joaocruz> that freedom would be cool
[05:14] <Simira> mako: might be interesting, yes
[05:14] <opi> because they wouldn't have to know every solution in existance ;-)
[05:14] <mako> since they'd be doing stuff that our admins might be, er.. *cough*PHP*cough*
[05:15] <sabdfl> exhactly
[05:15] <mako> sabdfl: yeah. lets find out exactly what smurf is doing
[05:15] <mako> sabdfl: and then find out how we can do it better
[05:15] <opi> Mithrandir: we have recived ubuntu.pl form a person who bought it, becuase of Ubuntu spirit :)
[05:16] <mako> in terms of dedicated machines, etc. we have a few easy ideas already
[05:16] <Kamion> can we have the next CC meeting at a time when smurfix can be around, so we can sync up with him?
[05:16] <sabdfl> ok. joaocruz: any particular plans or projects in portugal you want to tell us about?
[05:16] <mako> Kamion: yes.. UTC20 might work for him
[05:16] <sabdfl> which tz is smurfix in? non-work EU?
[05:16] <mako> sabdfl: i think this is commute time for him
[05:16] <opi> CET I think
[05:16] <sabdfl> ok
[05:16] <opi> he's in London, right?
[05:16] <amu> smurfix: is .de
[05:17] <mako> opi: germany
[05:17] <opi> normally, yes
[05:17] <opi> but he left for a short period, no?
[05:17] <joaocruz> sabdfl no formal plans yet, but we have team members in two big universities that are spreading the word and using ubuntu to support their projects
[05:17] <opi> abelli told me that :)
[05:17] <sabdfl> i'm not keen to move the CC to 20h00 every time, but we can try other times to include specific people for specific things
[05:17] <mako> opi: possibly. i didn't hear about it
[05:17] <mako> sabdfl: sure
[05:17] <sabdfl> i have a EMARIANNE situation to contend with
[05:18] <sabdfl> joaocruz: ok. if anything comes up, smurfix is your guy, or join us here to talk about it
[05:18] <sabdfl> any other LoCo folks?
[05:18] <Mithrandir> SOs are important, so that's understandable. :)
[05:18] <joaocruz> sure
[05:18] <Q-FUNK> re.  sorry I'm late.
[05:18] <mako> sabdfl: i'll ask smurf what time works better.. since i think i'm the most far west of the people taht neesd to be there.. we could even goa  few hours earlier
[05:18] <sabdfl> Q-FUNK: welcome
[05:18] <opi> sabdfl: Polish team already coworking with Smurfix, so we can handle it in sane manner 
[05:19] <sabdfl> next up... Member candidates:     JerryHaltom       AaronLake       HervCauwelier       Arnaud Vandyck       MartinEricRacine       HiweedLeng       MatthewWeaver   
[05:19] <opi> sabdfl: and we want to do our stuff (Wiki/forum) first, then we can play with servers :)
[05:19] <sabdfl> who's here?
[05:19] <sabdfl> fabbione: good idea
[05:19] <dholbach> jerryhaltom passed last time
[05:19] <m_tthew> I am matthew weaver
[05:19] <mako> soryr.. forgot to remove jerry halton
[05:20] <mako> m_tthew: lets go in order
[05:20] <herve> HervCauwelier here
[05:20] <sabdfl> aaron lake?
[05:20] <dholbach> just called metallikop (AaronLake)
[05:20] <mako> we also handled aaron lake last time
[05:20] <mako> dholbach: didn't we?
[05:20] <dholbach> mako: he became member
[05:20] <sabdfl> ok, mako, are you moving them to the Members list?
[05:20] <sabdfl> herve: you're up
[05:20] <mako> sabdfl: i did a very poor job of resetting the agenda this time around
[05:21] <sabdfl> mako: np, did traffic go out though?
[05:21] <smurfix> gah. Now present-
[05:21] <sabdfl> hiya smurfix
[05:21] <dholbach> herve should definitely become member
[05:21] <opi> hi smurfix 
[05:21] <smurfix> sorry about being late
[05:21] <sabdfl> smurfix, could you get in touch with linode.org and ask them for a bulk price on 100 basic Ubuntu nodes?
[05:22] <mako> sabdfl: a traffic went out but i'm still a couple weeks back. i sent summaries of the meetings to -news
[05:22] <sabdfl> herve: what's your specialty, and what's your focus area going to be for ubuntu?
[05:22] <smurfix> sabdfl: can do. I've been using my own server but if traffic increases it's going to be underpowered.
[05:22] <herve> I focus on Python & Zope, and would like to take care of conglomerate
[05:23] <herve> I have packages I want to enter into Ubuntu
[05:23] <sabdfl> smurfix: maybe we can do a deal with linode, give them a good price on general ubuntu support in exchange for LoCo nodes?
[05:23] <herve> and work in the MOTU
[05:23] <smurfix> joaocruz: I'll get to setup your server tonight
[05:23] <sabdfl> herve: ok, so code-oriented
[05:23] <dholbach> he's python/zope specialist and integrated himself into the team VERY nicely
[05:23] <dholbach> :-)
[05:23] <herve> in a word, I'm a maintainer yes
[05:23] <sabdfl> herve: have you worked with doko, and on the PythonTransitionMOTU-TODO?
[05:24] <mako> great
[05:24] <herve> sabdfl, had few times, but discussed with them
[05:24] <herve> I was focusing on Debian packages for a project I'm in
[05:24] <tseng> its better to get NEW packages into Debian via a sponsor if you can manage it
[05:24] <dholbach> and resolved some python issues
[05:24] <herve> I've just finished them this night, now I have more time for the motu
[05:24] <dholbach> i'm glad he's around :-)
[05:25] <sabdfl> tseng: we can take new packages immediately
[05:25] <herve> tseng, that's my plan
[05:25] <sabdfl> folks shoudl still upload to debian
[05:25] <herve> tseng, now my packages are ready, i'll contact d.mentors
[05:25] <sabdfl> but we don't have to wait, for universe
[05:25] <herve> I'd like to be a DD too :-)
[05:25] <doko> sabdfl: worked with him on some packages he did
[05:25] <tseng> herve: great :)
[05:25] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: problem is that Debian's NEW is so slow ATM.
[05:25] <herve> but we need to set a plan for python & zope helper scripts with doko and the others
[05:25] <sabdfl> membership is more about commitment to the overall ubuntu project, maintainership (TB) is the code angle
[05:26] <jbailey> herve: If there's anything I can help with on the cdbs side, ping me.
[05:26] <Kamion> herve++ for member, anyway, based on what I've seen and on dholbach's comments
[05:26] <herve> Mithrandir, it's even stalled for days. a flamewar even started on their lists
[05:26] <seb128> jbailey: may I ping you have multi-build ? :p
[05:26] <sabdfl> so herve you'll need to be back next week to get the go-ahead from the TB on the uploading front
[05:26] <Mithrandir> herve: I'm a DD, I'm on debian-devel; I know. :)
[05:26] <seb128> s/have/to have/
[05:26] <sabdfl> first universe, then maybe main too
[05:26] <herve> jbailey, I need to learn cdbs so I can be a tester, np
[05:26] <herve> Mithrandir, oops soory :)
[05:27] <sabdfl> CC guys other than Kamion, on herve for member?
[05:27] <herve> there was another interesting plan for a zope script for cdbs
[05:27] <opi> I would relay on dholbach comments regarding herve :-)
[05:27] <jbailey> seb128: For you, I might have an anechoic coating like a submarine. =)
[05:27] <mako> sabdfl: i already said yes (unclearly perhaps)
[05:28] <mako> sounds great
[05:28] <sabdfl> mako: ok, i see the nod now :-)
[05:28] <seb128> jbailey: ah ah
[05:28] <herve> note my gpg key is not yet strongly cosigned
[05:28] <sabdfl> cool, welcome aboard herve
[05:28] <dholbach> *rock*
[05:28] <mako> herve: mail me a signed CoC
[05:28] <sabdfl> herve: that's mainly an issue for the TB, we can possibly help using a notary
[05:28] <herve> well, thank you all
[05:28] <herve> mako, noted
[05:28] <dholbach> another word on AaronLake (metalikop): i talked to him about MOTUness... it's just he "fell into miscredit" because of a package with a suid binary he proposed... his work on universepythontransitiontodo was really good, i'll talk to ogra (once he appears again) because i'd be happy with him as MOTU; although i'd have a talk to him again
[05:28] <sabdfl> arnaud?
[05:29] <sabdfl> is our suid policy published anywhere?
[05:29] <dholbach> it's just a note that "AaronLake is not ticked off" completely from the agenda
[05:29] <mako> herve: also, nice wiki page :)
[05:29] <tseng> i can confirm that he did several packages for python
[05:29] <mako> herve: it's easy to get an idea of what you're involved in and have done by read it
[05:29] <jbailey> Arnaud isn't here, but I and wasabi_ have worked with him.  (wasabi_ more than I)
[05:29] <Kamion> sabdfl: "talk to mdz and see if he vomits"
[05:29] <sabdfl> :-)
[05:29] <herve> mako, Debian user and home developer for 5 years ;-)
[05:29] <Kamion> Arnaud's done great work on kaffe in Debian
[05:29] <sabdfl> :-// more like it
[05:30] <Kamion> it's in a rather saner state now that it was this time last year or so
[05:30] <wasabi_> hi
[05:30] <dholbach> it's just, i want to talk to ogra an metalikop before
[05:30] <mdz> sabdfl: our policy is that new setuid programs are met with extreme suspicion
[05:30] <sabdfl> ok, i think the metalikop issue is more maintainership than membership, he seems fully committed to ubuntu
[05:30] <mdz> sabdfl: is there a specific issue?
[05:30] <dholbach> mdz: it was on the list
[05:30] <mako> sabdfl: absolutely
[05:31] <sabdfl> mdz: 
[05:31] <sabdfl> (16:28:47) dholbach: another word on AaronLake (metalikop): i talked to him about MOTUness... it's just he "fell into miscredit" because of a package with a suid binary he proposed... his work on universepythontransitiontodo was really good, i'll talk to ogra (once he appears again) because i'd be happy with him as MOTU; although i'd have a talk to him again
[05:31] <mdz> doesn't sound like a community council issue
[05:31] <pitti> dholbach: which package?
[05:31] <mdz> oh
[05:31] <dholbach> mdz, pitti: a gnome applet. dunno the name, it's not in hoary
[05:31] <pitti> dholbach: ok
[05:31] <sabdfl> mdz: i just felt that before people's reputations are tarnished there should be a policy published which we could point to, rather than depending on being a member of the cabal that know's how to channel you :-)
[05:32] <mdz> sabdfl: unfortunately it's a very touchy-feely sort of process which requires a nausea response to code which is not written defensively
[05:33] <sabdfl> ok
[05:33] <dholbach> i think the new MOTUNewPackagePolicy will ensure we don't get those type of packages in "by accident"
[05:33] <mdz> if we codified it, it would be something like "programs that suck may never be setuid"
[05:33] <sabdfl> for UDU i think we should get a doc plan together for coding standards, doc standards, packaging standards
[05:33] <Mithrandir> however, I don't think we need to throw people into miscredit for making a single mistake; I think metalikop has learnt about suid stuff now.
[05:33] <sabdfl> at UDU
[05:33] <mdz> dholbach: I think lintian alerts on that, too, though it isn't perfect
[05:33] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: agreed exactly
[05:33] <dholbach> Mithrandir: yes
[05:33] <smurfix> mdz: Given the Turing-completeness of the problem we can't do any better anyway. ;-)
[05:33] <sabdfl>  /var/www is on my conscience...
[05:33] <sabdfl> ok, next?
[05:34] <Q-FUNK> ?
[05:34] <mako> wait.. did we get approval for arnaud?
[05:34] <sabdfl> quick question - if we have someone doing obviously excellent work, do we need them to meet up with the CC for membership confirmation?
[05:34] <jbailey> sabdfl: Youw ere starting Arnaud. =)
[05:34] <mako> sabdfl: no
[05:35] <sabdfl> mako: i think it's good to have everyone drop in and say "hi"
[05:35] <mako> sabdfl: process stuff says it's suggested and will help
[05:35] <mdz> "meet the neighbors"
[05:35] <mako> sabdfl: they need to get testimonials from other team members.. so they need to meet up with at least a number of people
[05:35] <sabdfl> it gives me and other CC guys, and other people who watch the CC process, a chance to read their wiki pages and get in tune
[05:35] <sabdfl> right
[05:35] <sabdfl> this is a good argument for rotating TZ's per fabbione's suggestion
[05:36] <mako> i'm not opposed to that.. we'll move the next one it seems
[05:36] <sabdfl> mako: if we did that, would you be more comfortable with requiring folks to come to the CC meeting to be approved?
[05:36] <mako> yes, absolutely
[05:36] <sabdfl> ok
[05:36] <mako> i was most concerrned with making people get up at 3am
[05:36] <sabdfl> no TZ discrimination round here!
[05:36] <fabbione> mako: there will always be somebody unhappy.
[05:36] <mako> fabbione: yes, unless it rotates
[05:36] <fabbione> let's make a constant rotation and 3 out of 4 times people will be ok
[05:36] <mako> fabbione: and then everyone is unhappy sometimes but nobody is unhappy always :)
[05:37] <sabdfl> ok
[05:37] <fabbione> mako: let's talk about it later
[05:37] <jbailey> 3am is at least doable.  Middle of the workday is less doable for most.
[05:37] <mako> yes
[05:37] <sabdfl> this is going to be fun, keeping track of it :-)
[05:37] <fabbione> i have some ideas
[05:37] <mako> so want to make a decision about arnaud?
[05:37] <mako> should we suggest he come to the next meeting? 
[05:37] <sabdfl> let's stick to the "please come once" idea
[05:37] <mako> jbailey: what is your feeling?
[05:37] <Kamion> arnaud++ as far as I'm concerned
[05:37] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: ical feed for meeting calender :)
[05:37] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: you're going to *love* launchpad soon :-)
[05:37] <jbailey> mako: He's a DD now and has been sponsoring a ton of people, like Michael Koch and Jerry Haltom.
[05:38] <mako> yeah, i know him from debian
[05:38] <sabdfl> let's ask him to make the next meeting, and confirm it then
[05:38] <mako> so i'm comfortable with it
[05:38] <mako> alright, sounds good
[05:38] <mako> MartinEricRacine ?
[05:38] <jbailey> I'm willing to say spin it to the next meeting for consistancy, though.
[05:38] <Q-FUNK> that's me.
[05:38] <sabdfl> Q-FUNK: you're up
[05:38] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: just give me an emacs interface and kerberos integration and I'll be happy. ;)
[05:39] <mako> Q-FUNK: your page doesn't really describe what you've been doing for ubuntu.. are there a re few projects you've been actively involved in?
[05:39] <mako> Q-FUNK: or are you still ramping up?
[05:39] <sabdfl> i'm sure e-lisp has xml-rpc bindings...
[05:39] <Q-FUNK> I'd mostly be maintaining the same packages I have in Debian (versions in Warty have security bugs), plus possibly adopting and packaging some more as I find time.
[05:39] <jbailey> Mmm..  Kerberos.
[05:39] <mako> Q-FUNK: which are those?
[05:40] <mako> and don't say "the e-lisp kerbos and and xml-rpc bindings"
[05:40] <Q-FUNK> mako: my blog (as seen on planet.debian) mentions some more things I did for Ubuntu, such as trying to get the local debian mirror to also mirror ubuntu.
[05:40] <mako> well we should get your blog in ubuntu planet.. but that's another issue :)
[05:41] <smurfix> mako: Mine too ;-)
[05:41] <Q-FUNK> mako: cups-pdf had a number of RC bugs fixed by upstream, which I later uploaded to unstable.
[05:41] <opi> mako: and mine! :P
[05:41] <opi> mako: pointing is so rude :P
[05:41] <opi> mako: I rate you: not a team player ;-)
[05:41] <Q-FUNK> mako: I would need to be able to keep that in sync in ubuntu as well.
[05:42] <sabdfl> Q-FUNK: so, in summary,main membership focus will be maintainership?
[05:42] <sabdfl> Q-FUNK: have you done any MOTU bits?
[05:42] <Q-FUNK> mako: then numlockx has seen several bugxies since I adopted it.
[05:42] <mako> Q-FUNK: have you worked with anyone on the MOTU or other team in ubuntu yet that can vouche for you?
[05:43] <Q-FUNK> sabdfl: for now, maintainership, yes.  however, my main focus is on business and publicity issues.
[05:43] <mako> Q-FUNK: ooh, that's nice :)
[05:43] <mako> Q-FUNK: we tend to like to put maintainership on people with testimonials from other poeple and who can point to a big body of work in ubuntu
[05:43] <Q-FUNK> mako: some of the gnome guys, like seb128, have been in contact for some time already on several gnome issues.
[05:43] <dholbach> sabdfl: he's in the channel and helped out with questions, but in the last days i was very busy, so i might have missed things he worked on
[05:44] <mako> Q-FUNK: would you be opposed to revisiting this in two weeks?
[05:44] <Q-FUNK> seb128: any comment on my current involvement in gnome testing and bug reporting?
[05:45] <Kamion> yeah, I'd also like there to be a bit more meat on the wiki page
[05:45] <sabdfl> Q-FUNK: any top things you think we should be working on to meet your goals for the enterprise market?
[05:45] <Kamion> of the Ubuntu-specific variety :-)
[05:45] <seb128> not a lot to say, out of speaking about some issues (mainly on ppc) with the packages ...
[05:45] <mako> Q-FUNK: you can build up the wiki page, do a few uploads, and maybe start some of the work on the business stuff?
[05:45] <seb128> I've not reviewed any package or such stuff
[05:46] <Q-FUNK> seb128: anything on the gnome 28 transition testing I did on ppc?
[05:46] <sabdfl> Q-FUNK: check out https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WinningTheDesktop
[05:46] <mako> Q-FUNK: if you're opposed to looking at this next week, it will give you a chance to build up the page and i'm sure it will not be controversial :)
[05:46] <mako> sorry, in two weeks
[05:47] <sabdfl> seb128: has Q-FUNK been busy in bugzilla for you?
[05:47] <seb128> ubuntu bugzilla ? no
[05:47] <seb128> just pinging sometimes on the debian BTS
[05:47] <Q-FUNK> sabdfl: I've been approached by a few Baltic startups wanting to make their custom Debian-based distros. I suggested Ubuntu instead.
[05:47] <Q-FUNK> sabdfl: but my possibilities to promote Ubuntu are limitted as I'm currently unemployed.
[05:48] <sabdfl> Q-FUNK: don't want to put you on the spot, i like what you've written on your wiki page, and I think given another round of clarity there and active work on bugzilla or in the community will get you there
[05:48] <Q-FUNK> sabdfl: I don't do bugzilla.  I despise having to create yet another acocunt on yet another bugzilla.
[05:48] <sabdfl> malone?
[05:48] <sabdfl> all-your-bugzillas-are-belong-to... ?
[05:49] <mdz> we don't love Bugzilla either, but it's the tool that we have today, and we work with that
[05:49] <smurfix> Q-FUNK: at the moment we don't really have a choice
[05:49] <mako> mdz: speak for yourself! i love.. no wait. i don't
[05:49] <seb128> mdz: if you don't like bugzilla you should try the sf bug tracker :p
[05:49] <mdz> seb128: I have
[05:49] <pitti> seb128: argh, this sucks :-/
[05:49] <sabdfl> ok
[05:49] <mako> alright
[05:49] <Q-FUNK> I would love it if all the bugzillas in the world had a single logon and unifed user database.  creating yet another account for every single OSS project thta uses bugzilla is a pain.
[05:50] <sabdfl> APPROVED!
[05:50] <mdz> I didn't say bugzilla was the _worst_ bug tracker :-)
[05:50] <mako> Q-FUNK: in two weeks. you can talk to me in advance if you want
[05:50] <Q-FUNK> but this bugzilla discussion is besides the point.
[05:50] <seb128> mdz: :)
[05:50] <mako> HiweedLeng
[05:50] <Kamion> hiweed is not here; has anyone worked with him?
[05:50] <Kamion> the wiki page is light on contributions to date
[05:50] <mdz> Q-FUNK: indeed, but please don't turn your nose up at bugzilla if you're suggesting that you're going to participate in Ubuntu development :-)
[05:50] <sabdfl> Q-FUNK: chat to mako in between, and perhaps there are ways we can make the work that you are doing more tangible and more visible to the CC and your colleagues. then we're all set
[05:51] <mako> i think we need to talk with and work with Hiweed a bit more
[05:51] <mako> he (s)he around?
[05:51] <Q-FUNK> sabdfl: fair enough :)
[05:51] <sabdfl> if not... MatthewWeaver?
[05:51] <m_tthew> yes
[05:51] <mdz> -> m_tthew 
[05:51] <Kamion> having Hiweed work with the universe guys for a while on Chinese support, and with whoever's needed to improve support in main, would be good
[05:52] <mdz> I can personally attest that m_tthew is spreading the LOVE
[05:52] <mako> yeah
[05:52] <mako> i think we need to talk to hiweed a bit more
[05:52] <mako> his wiki page details a few areas of what appears to be confusion
[05:52] <Kamion> on reading his wiki page, I am now trying to remember trading double entendres with m_tthew :-)
[05:52] <mako> "I have read the Debian Social Contract and the DFSG (I agree to both)"
[05:52] <Q-FUNK> mdz: maintaining being only a very tiny bit of what I intend on doing at Ubuntu, let's just say that bugzilla is not gona be my main tool. :)
[05:52] <sabdfl> doubled parry-entendres 'ey? sounds canadian to me
[05:52] <mdz> Q-FUNK: sure, but if you refuse to even create an account, that's a problem
[05:53] <m_tthew> Kamion: we debugged a d-i / grub problem on a sounder CD way way back, talked about big hammers in tight places
[05:53] <sabdfl> Kamion: he says nothing about fluids in there
[05:53] <mako> "Once I had an idea that MattZimmerman called 'pretty reasonable'"
[05:53] <Q-FUNK> mako: anyhow, fair enough.  in 2 weeks then.
[05:53] <Kamion> sabdfl: ew
[05:53] <dholbach> hehe
[05:53] <mako> that might be better than me
[05:53] <Kamion> m_tthew: ah :-)
[05:53] <mako> Q-FUNK: cool, thanks for showing up
[05:53] <mako> Q-FUNK: we'll talk
[05:53] <Kamion> wow, nostalgia attack
[05:54] <mdz> mako: have your people call his people, we'll talk
[05:54] <mako> so.. strong feelings about m_tthew ?
[05:54] <mako> anyone, anyone
[05:54] <opi> Q-FUNK: if you refusing to get new, I'll share with you ;)
[05:55] <sabdfl> m_tthew: are you actively working on any embedded distro work?
[05:55] <mako> where jdub? this is love
[05:55] <Q-FUNK> sabdfl: I think my profile on LinkedIn would give you a better idea of what I do with free/OSS.  very little coding or maintaining involved. :)
[05:55] <m_tthew> sabdfl: outside of helping a former employer maintain a hacked up version of pebble? no.
[05:56] <sabdfl> ok
[05:56] <Kamion> mdz's recommendation's pretty strong, the wiki page still leaves me gagging for more detail though :-)
[05:56] <sabdfl> Kamion: +1
[05:56] <opi> m_tthew: are you going to help us with a little Ubuntu hackin'?
[05:56] <mdz> m_tthew has personally burned and mailed Hoary live CDs to people to make sure that they try Ubuntu
[05:57] <sabdfl> ok
[05:57] <mako> ok.. 
[05:57] <mako> that's enough
[05:57] <opi> m_tthew: I'm talking with Abelli (.it LoCo leader)
[05:57] <mako> for me
[05:57] <sabdfl> Kamion: ?
[05:57] <mako> m_tthew: that rocks dude
[05:57] <m_tthew> opi: I really only write code under extreme duress, but I am happy to help nail down problems I discover in code.
[05:57] <opi> m_tthew: about doing a embedded Ubuntu :)
[05:57] <mako> m_tthew: that makes me want to give you a hug too
[05:57] <mdz> and he had better come back soon looking to become a universe maintainer
[05:58] <sabdfl> we asked Q-FUNK to come back with more concrete detail on bits done
[05:58] <m_tthew> opi: the magic new live CD and associated tools seem to be moving in the right direction (easier custom distributions)
[05:58] <mako> m_tthew: want to fill out your page andreappear next week?
[05:58] <m_tthew> mako: I can do that, sure
[05:59] <Mithrandir> m_tthew: could you please turn off highlighted ":"?
[05:59] <sabdfl> ok
[05:59] <mako> m_tthew: that's the uncontroversial thing to do. then the next uncontroversial thing will be to approve your application for membership
[05:59] <m_tthew> Mithrandir : yeah, it shows that I don't understand the 'reformatted text'
[05:59] <opi> m_tthew: yeah, new LCD design is very cool 
[05:59] <opi> m_tthew: too bad I can't play with it at my laptop (low at disk space;()
[05:59] <Kamion> advocacy's one of the contributions that qualifies for membership, so based on testimonials I'm happy
[05:59] <sabdfl> m_tthew: if you have what it takes on the maintainership side to keep mdz happy, we can probably handle membership and maintainership in one go if it's at a time good for the TB guys
[06:00] <Kamion> as long as he keeps it up :-)
[06:00] <mdz> documentation has not been an issue in the past
[06:00] <mdz> certainly not given testimonials
[06:00] <sabdfl> ok, so i think that's consensus
[06:00] <mako> sabdfl: did you give the nod too?
[06:00] <Kamion> yep
[06:01] <mako> alright then
[06:01] <mako> m_tthew: congrats
[06:01] <m_tthew> thanks
[06:01] <herve> m_tthew, I struggled too with reST, I'm an old stx user ;-)
[06:01] <sabdfl> m_tthew: if you can document actual work done already on your wiki, and flesh out those embedded and coding ideas, then at the next CC meeting we can go ahead with membership and probably maintainership too
[06:01] <mdz> ReST is the awfulest wiki markup ever
[06:01] <sabdfl> erk
[06:01] <sabdfl> sorry
[06:01] <sabdfl> was typing
[06:01] <mako> alright.. moving on
[06:01] <mako> so we can all get back to work
[06:01] <m_tthew> sabdfl: consider it done
[06:01] <Kamion> erm, no need to go ahead with membership now?
[06:01] <mako> anybody here with updates on the website
[06:01] <mdz> mako: dude, this is work
[06:01] <Kamion> since that's done :-)
[06:01] <sabdfl> m_tthew: thanks, appreciate your patience
[06:02] <sabdfl> there are no CC appointments coming up between now and then anyhow ;-)
[06:02] <mako> mdz: can't be work. i'm having too much fun
[06:02] <mako> mdz: there's this little thing ofa  release tomorrow. you might have heard about it :)
[06:02] <sabdfl> so... website?
[06:03] <mako> hmm..
[06:03] <sabdfl> new look is super, can't wait to see it executed
[06:03] <sabdfl> decision is taken
[06:03] <mako> the masses want some information
[06:03] <sabdfl> we are merging three of the best into one look
[06:03] <Kamion> we have the website competition; is it Henrik who's responsible for executing the results?
[06:03] <sabdfl> the look itself is done, we are now getting it turned into a plone skin
[06:03] <mako> can we make some sort of update, maybe on -devel?
[06:03] <sabdfl> tomorrow night we'll be discussing the state of the website, and general options there
[06:03] <smurfix> sabdfl: Any preview mock-up people can look at?
[06:03] <mako> i've been getting a decent amount of mail about i
[06:04] <sabdfl> one suggestion is to go back to plone + moin, can we get feedback on that idea here?
[06:04] <sabdfl> they would share an authentication mechanism (login once)
[06:04] <Riddell> when kubuntu.org gets done it would be good to have it with the new look
[06:04] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: the current wiki is horrible, so I would be very happy with that.
[06:04] <mako> i don't mind zwiki
[06:04] <smurfix> Whether that's moin or *anything* is secondary to me
[06:04] <Kamion> I would be so happy going back to moin
[06:04] <sabdfl> we would have to use Google for searching, to get integrated search of both
[06:04] <mako> and the change was more painful than using either
[06:05] <m_tthew> google is pretty good at search
[06:05] <mako> the migration was rough last time
[06:05] <dholbach> ok... i have to leave now... see you all later
[06:05] <sabdfl> mako: i wonder if we'll be able to get someone to convert ReST to moin automatically?
[06:05] <Mithrandir> mako: it grabs Alt-D which really, really sucks.  Yes, it's not a zwiki thing per se, but it means I try to avoid using the wiki if possible.
[06:05] <mako> i still keep finding attachements that are broken that i have to reupload
[06:05] <sabdfl> cheers daniel
[06:06] <dholbach> bye mark *wave*
[06:06] <sabdfl> what does alt-d do ?
[06:06] <mako> sabdfl: i think it could be done semi-automaticaly but it would be a lot of work
[06:06] <smurfix> sabdfl: I can probably whip up something to do that conversion
[06:06] <Mithrandir> go to the address bar
[06:06] <Mithrandir> which I tend to do a lot
[06:06] <sabdfl> ctrl-l?
[06:06] <mdz> alt-d makes you wish for [D] eath
[06:06] <mdz> a common feeling with zwiki
[06:06] <sabdfl> down, not across
[06:06] <Mithrandir> C-l could work, but C-l used to pop up a window in other browsers, si it's not in my fingers.
[06:07] <sabdfl> so... general feeling is +1 on moin+plone
[06:07] <mako> dude.. use mozex to edit pages
[06:07] <Mithrandir> zwiki is also slooooooow
[06:07] <mako> sabdfl: i'd prefer to stay
[06:07] <mako> sabdfl: but i'm happy to be outvoted
[06:07] <mako> sabdfl: my concern is more with the transition
[06:07] <sabdfl> mako: let's see if smurfix can whip something up
[06:07] <sabdfl> this would be post-hoary
[06:07] <mako> sabdfl: than to using moin.. i think it's a fine wiki but things did/will break and it we're still picking up pieces from the last one
[06:07] <sabdfl> any more questions on the website?
[06:08] <sabdfl> mako: yes i agree
[06:08] <sabdfl> renaming pages... sucks in moin
[06:08] <sabdfl> attachments
[06:08] <sabdfl> etc
[06:08] <sabdfl> but it also has a fast lean Right Way feel in other areas
[06:08] <mako> sabdfl: well the major problem is the attachments didn't get moved over
[06:08] <sabdfl> we can also find out about bounties for moin improvement
[06:08] <sabdfl> plone is... hard in that regard
[06:08] <mako> sabdfl: yeah, i think ultimately with 20/20 foresite, i would never have switched
[06:09] <sabdfl> me too
[06:09] <sabdfl> ok, next
[06:09] <mako> but not that we're here. i really loathe the idea of doing it all again
[06:09] <sabdfl> Riddell: you're up
[06:09] <mako> kubuntu
[06:10] <sabdfl> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuPublicity
[06:10] <Riddell> kubuntu logo was first
[06:10] <sabdfl> anybody else LOVE the three dragons in circle-of-friends pose?
[06:10] <Riddell> do we need a separate one (I think so) and if so which, ideas on the page sabdfl sent
[06:10] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: they need a bit more work, imho, but the idea is nice.
[06:10] <Kamion> the dragons image is cute
[06:10] <Mithrandir> possibly color them differently?
[06:10] <sabdfl> i don't think the brown and blue merge well, am happy for kubuntu to be blue
[06:11] <sabdfl> and green
[06:11] <sabdfl> Riddell: have you me norm?
[06:11] <sabdfl> met
[06:11] <amu> brown one looks nice, but need some extra work
[06:11] <Kamion> the blue one is a bit BRIGHT
[06:11] <sabdfl> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/norm.jpg
[06:11] <Kamion> it's like konqi descending out of angelic light or something, kinda blinding
[06:11] <sabdfl> my mascot
[06:11] <Riddell> http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-art/
[06:11] <sabdfl> he's on canonical one
[06:12] <mako> i really like the dragon
[06:12] <Mithrandir> Riddell: could you make an index?
[06:12] <mako> (s)
[06:13] <Riddell> http://www.kulma.org/linux/kde/kone.php?categ=kubuntu
[06:13] <sabdfl> i think it's more important to preserve the clean desktop philosophy than the brown
[06:13] <Riddell> konqi bits
[06:13] <sivang> hey all
[06:14] <opi> http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-art/kubuntu-basse.png -- this is cute!
[06:14] <Riddell> http://jriddell.org/foo/
[06:14] <smurfix> Riddell: *cool*, especially the *together* images
[06:14] <Riddell> whatever else I have
[06:14] <Riddell> anyway, we all know konqi is cool, it's the logo I'm worried about
[06:15] <sabdfl> i like the one on the right of http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-art/kubuntu-basse.png
[06:15] <opi> Riddell: basse rocks :)
[06:15] <sabdfl> clean, ubuntu and kde links
[06:15] <Kamion> I like the blue/green together image
[06:15] <opi> I'm with sabdfl on this
[06:15] <sivang> Riddell: yeah, it's cool
[06:15] <Kamion> http://www.kulma.org/linux/kde/kone.php?categ=kubuntu&kuva=konqi_together_green.jpg
[06:15] <mako> i like the one on the right too
[06:16] <sabdfl> only question is whether those colours can work together, if not, i'd favour the KDE colours over the Ubuntu ones, since we want the Kdesktop to look and feel Just Right
[06:16] <Riddell> sabdfl: with those colours?
[06:16] <Riddell> maybe take the blues from the ubuntu palette and use them
[06:16] <Mithrandir> it would be interesting to see that
[06:17] <sabdfl> together image? which is that?
[06:17] <opi> sabdfl: Kamion link
[06:17] <opi> http://www.kulma.org/linux/kde/kone.php?categ=kubuntu&kuva=konqi_together_green.jpg
[06:17] <sabdfl> Riddell: yes, maybe use the three-arcs, with the gear motif, in K colours, with k-bling
[06:17] <Mithrandir> Riddell: what would a plain ubuntu logo with kubuntu as the text and blue/green-ish colours look like?
[06:17] <sabdfl> sweet mother of... puff.
[06:18] <sabdfl> it's lovely :-)
[06:18] <sabdfl> i think the K artist community has a strong sense of identity, and will get this right if we give them the space to play
[06:18] <Mithrandir> Riddell: the kubuntu logo with the cogwheels look a bit crowded.
[06:18] <Riddell> sabdfl: by gear mofit you mean the one on the right here?  http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-art/kubuntu-basse.png
[06:19] <Riddell> Mithrandir: which one?  mine of basse's?
[06:19] <sabdfl> Riddell: yes
[06:19] <sabdfl> but i'm very open to other ideas
[06:19] <Mithrandir> Riddell: http://jriddell.org/foo/kubuntu.png , for instance.
[06:19] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: agreed, that one has too many conflicting colours
[06:19] <Riddell> Mithrandir: yeah, people seem to prefer basse's over mine
[06:19] <mako> you guys have images at like 10 different sites
[06:19] <mdz> I suggest that we first get Kubuntu to compile, then install, then we worry about the logo :-)
[06:20] <sabdfl> that's because we've been crap about getting people a common place to upload - sorry
[06:20] <sabdfl> we will have that fixed by the next time we meet, sooner for devs
[06:20] <mako> well, you can upload into the wiki
[06:20] <mako> at least until we tear it out and replace it with a new wiki ;)
[06:20] <sabdfl> so Riddell - i love the ideas here, and the fact that K community artists are playing with it, let's see what comes out
[06:20] <Mithrandir> Riddell: still a bit crowded.  If the wheels were retracted a bit, Basse's could work.
[06:20] <opi> but I have to say: basses, esp. right one is my favorite
[06:21] <sabdfl> really like the idea of having Konqi tease some of the ubuntu-calendar artwork, and think it could be done very well
[06:21] <Mithrandir> and blue-ish colours
[06:21] <Mithrandir> konqi-pr0n?
[06:21] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: gives a whole new twist to "spank that lizard", doesn't it
[06:22] <sabdfl> moving right along
[06:22] <Riddell> ok, will talk with basse about playing with his logo design
[06:22] <Riddell> can we get kubuntu.org to not point at 123-reg?
[06:22] <sabdfl> LocoTeamLeader process
[06:22] <sabdfl> Riddell: yes
[06:22] <Riddell> sabdfl: should I e-mail Louise?
[06:23] <sabdfl> Riddell: we might be able to theme it so that wiki.kubuntu.org and wiki.ubuntu.com have the same content with different colour themes.
[06:23] <mako> oh dude.. are we going to have suggestively posed konqi?!
[06:23] <sivang> sabdfl: are we going to have seperate kubuntu disks for distribution?
[06:23] <sabdfl> Riddell: elmo
[06:23] <Riddell> sabdfl: right
[06:23] <sabdfl> mako: there was nothing suggestive in the poses! it was the lack of clothes, apparently
[06:23] <Mithrandir> mako: Daring Dragon, the first Kubuntu release.
[06:23] <sabdfl> sivang: we haven't planned or budgeted for that
[06:23] <opi> ;D
[06:23] <sivang> sabdfl: ok
[06:23] <Kamion> Riddell: Lu's not working for Canonical any more, she went off to other things
[06:24] <sivang> (/me was curious)
[06:24] <sabdfl> we can probably do a special run, and ship them to kde guys, and lug's
[06:24] <sabdfl> ok, LocoTeamLeader process
[06:24] <sabdfl> smurfix?
[06:24] <smurfix> Right
[06:25] <mako> jane and i have discussed
[06:25] <mako> we didn't come to any firm conclusions
[06:25] <smurfix> The recent apparent resignation of the Italian team leader has highlighted the fact that we should probably make the process a bit stricter
[06:25] <smurfix> My ideas are
[06:25] <mako> but thought it might be possible for a smaller one
[06:25] <smurfix> - require membership
[06:26] <smurfix> - require a LocalTeam page that has enough content
[06:26] <smurfix>   ( >2 persons listed who actually do something ;-)
[06:26] <Kamion> as I said in e-mail, I'd prefer it if we started locos up without leaders, and let the obvious leader emerge; it would be much easier to see who's doing real work that way
[06:26] <opi> Kamion: a natural leader
[06:26] <fabbione> Kamion: +1
[06:26] <mako> smurfix, Kamion: both your suggestions sounds reasonable
[06:27] <opi> same goes for exchanging leaders
[06:27] <Kamion> both our suggestions are compatible, too :-)
[06:27] <mako> leadership in locoteams and a revised position on them is something i want to address in the next cc meeting
[06:27] <smurfix> Kamion: Yeah, as people fill up that team page something like a leader should emerge
[06:27] <mako> in the next days, there will be a meeting with members of the italian team
[06:28] <sabdfl> it might happen that the cc needs to suggest a leader, for clarity, if there's indecision inside the community concerned
[06:28] <mako> to talk about choosing leadership for their team and processes to avoid problems in the future
[06:28] <opi> if someone is more active are willing, he should replace currect leader (with team approve) without the fuss
[06:28] <sabdfl> mako: would be a good time to flesh these ideas out in practice
[06:28] <mako> if we have a fixed time, i'll announce it with the notes from this meeting in the next day or two
[06:28] <mako> sabdfl: exactly
[06:28] <mako> it would be good if people can come.. it will be post-preview release of course
[06:28] <sabdfl> opi: in general, we will act to minimise the fuss
[06:28] <sabdfl> ok
[06:28] <mako> so we should all have a chance to catch our breath
[06:29] <mako> and then we can come up with a more solid proposal we can present to the group.. maybe something for the community/processes/ section on the website
[06:29] <mako> next meeting
[06:29] <sabdfl> smurfix: so perhaps the answer is to try not to nominate a specific leader, but get folks to work together as a team, as Kamion suggested, till we really need a leader
[06:29] <sabdfl> then get the community to discuss it and select someone
[06:30] <smurfix> Self-nomination works -- except when it doesn't  :-/
[06:30] <sabdfl> that's when we can gently nudge something in the right direction
[06:30] <sabdfl> anything else on this?
[06:30] <opi> smurfix: same goes for democracy ;)
[06:30] <sabdfl> THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY
[06:30] <sabdfl> :-)
[06:30] <opi> maybe a review of Leader work?
[06:30] <smurfix> sabdfl: Not at the moment; mroe at the next CC meeting after we've talked more with everybody concerned
[06:30] <opi> I know I'm shooting in my own foot here ;-)
[06:31] <Kamion> sabdfl: yeah, it's just the "leader of new team appears and asks for approval" thing that's difficult to deal with
[06:31] <sabdfl> Kamion: i think we need to run with it
[06:31] <Kamion> if a community already has enough people for there to be indecision, then the job is already easier than that :-)
[06:31] <smurfix> opi: If you can suggest a process for that which would work in your team, by all means submit it to others
[06:31] <sabdfl> deal with the stresses when they appear, as per .it
[06:31] <Kamion> sabdfl: it only works that way because we've *asked* for team leaders - I honestly don't think we need to for loco teams, at the start
[06:31] <opi> smurfix: I'll think on that
[06:32] <opi> smurfix: and ask others
[06:32] <smurfix> opi: we can put up a best-practices page or something like that
[06:32] <Kamion> hm, and now I actually read more of the scrollback :-)
[06:32] <sabdfl> phew, i thought opi was suggesting review of the sabdfl
[06:32] <Kamion> ok, you said that
[06:32] <opi> sabdfl: ;-)
[06:32] <opi> sabdfl: are you afraid? :)
[06:32] <sabdfl> ok, any other business?
[06:32] <sabdfl> opi: i have my flaws, you know
[06:32] <opi> who dosen't 
[06:32] <sabdfl> AOB? I have one item
[06:33] <smurfix> sabdfl: nothimg else from me
[06:33] <mako> sabdfl: go ahead
[06:33] <sivang> sabdfl: AOB ?
[06:33] <opi> any other buissnes
[06:33] <sivang> eh ;-)
[06:33] <sabdfl> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DraftHoaryReleaseAnnouncement
[06:33] <sabdfl> comments and brickbats?
[06:33] <sabdfl> i thought we could have a similar announcement of Kubuntu, from Riddell and haggai
[06:34] <sabdfl> questions
[06:34] <mdz> sabdfl: on a more immediate note, do you want the preview announcement to go along the same lines?
[06:34] <mako> sabdfl: i'm going to do a bit of work on it
[06:34] <sabdfl>  - do we want something formal like this for preview, or informal for preview?
[06:34] <mdz> we should definitely do something formal for preview
[06:34] <sabdfl> mdz: :-)
[06:34] <opi> you can include me for spreading the news on Polish Linux portals
[06:34] <mako> oh.. this is the next month announcement
[06:34] <sabdfl>  - can we get a good plan in place to cover the local media in the countries we have community members?
[06:34] <mako> not the "tomorrow" announcement
[06:34] <sabdfl> mako: yes
[06:34] <Kamion> I like it
[06:35] <mako> sabdfl: yes. lets do it
[06:35] <sabdfl> mdz: i'd like to avoid having two virtually identical announcements, preview and release
[06:35] <opi> will Kubuntu have more about KDE and point out Ubuntu in short
[06:35] <mako> sabdfl: i was planning on writing one for the preview anyway
[06:35] <sabdfl> otherwise we might not get /.'d  ENONEWINFO
[06:35] <Riddell> opi: yes
[06:35] <mako> sabdfl: i can do it mostly blind first
[06:35] <opi> and in reverse?
[06:35] <mdz> preview will get a big media splash, though, and should have a proper announcement
[06:35] <sabdfl> opi: yes
[06:35] <opi> superb
[06:35] <mako> mdz: we can do a different and shorter announcement i think
[06:35] <sivang> sabdfl: so use this announcment for the preview and the relsase?
[06:35] <Kamion> Our next release, the Hoary Hedgehog, is due
[06:35] <Kamion> in six months time.
[06:35] <mdz> maoksure
[06:36] <Kamion> might want to correct that :-)
[06:36] <sabdfl> :-)
[06:36] <mdz> hehe
[06:36] <mdz> ECUTANDPASTE
[06:36] <mako> Kamion: we're a bunch of slackers
[06:36] <sabdfl> guys, it has been nearly one year! Kamion, mdz, remember easter?
[06:36] <opi> Whad? Is that a Sarge Headhog? :P
[06:36] <silbs> I thought we were doing ubuntu.com not ubuntulinux.org?
[06:36] <Kamion> ayup
[06:36] <fabbione> YEAH!
[06:36] <fabbione> sabdfl: the waitress!
[06:36] <fabbione> who can forget her?
[06:36] <sabdfl> shhhh
[06:36] <fabbione> :P
[06:36] <mako> silbs: we've got a month :)
[06:37] <mdz> that was April 9th and 10th
[06:37] <sabdfl> wow
[06:37] <mako> in any case.. i'm going to write an announcement today after i finish shipit stuff for tomorrow
[06:37] <sabdfl> ok, so plan for preview announcement?
[06:37] <opi> lets put it on the April the 1st
[06:37] <mdz> Hoary releases April 6th
[06:37] <Kamion> in fact it's now a bit over a year since you phoned me to talk about the project
[06:37] <sabdfl> opi: we have a plan for april 1st
[06:37] <silbs> mako: also you might want to add sometihng about the live CDs. 
[06:37] <Kamion> 29/02/2004      Phone call from Mark Shuttleworth, 10pm
[06:37] <opi> sabdfl: Wubuntu? Win32 Ubuntu? 
[06:37] <sabdfl> Kamion: yes, we were keeping sane hours back then
[06:38] <sabdfl> opi: circle-of-aaarrrgghh-my-eyes
[06:38] <mdz> heh
[06:38] <sabdfl> fabbione: elmo did, though he won't admit it
[06:38] <mdz> 2005-03-08 Phone call from Mark Shuttleworth, 4:30am
[06:38] <sabdfl> ok, 'nuff history
[06:38] <mako> unless there are problems, i'll drop the link to the topic of #ubuntu-devel when i'm done with the draft preview announcement
[06:38] <sabdfl> :-)
[06:38] <fabbione> eheheh
[06:38] <mako> will be done before any of you wake up tomorrow for redrafting etc
[06:38] <sabdfl> ok
[06:39] <mako> i know mark will have go nuts with :)
[06:39] <Kamion> wake up?
[06:39] <Riddell> mako: should we have a kubuntu draft preview announcement?
[06:39] <Kamion> waking up implies sleeping
[06:39] <Kamion> and, as we all know, SLEEPING IS FOR SLACKERS
[06:39] <sabdfl> mdz: would you prefer the preview announcement to be more technical? cover more detail of new approaches and features?
[06:39] <Riddell> mako: or a paragraph in the ubuntu one
[06:39] <sabdfl> listing de-rooted apps etc?
[06:39] <mako> it will be done before the time when one would normally wake up if one were sleeping
[06:39] <mdz> sabdfl: I think it should link to the wiki for details, and just give an overview
[06:39] <smurfix> mako: define "normal"
[06:40] <sivang> sabdfl: what would you like over coutnries you have community memebers in?
[06:40] <mdz> sabdfl: mako and I talked about a similar outline to the release notes
[06:40] <mako> i want it to be a bit shorter than the full announcement
[06:40] <sabdfl> mdz: ok, cool
[06:40] <sivang> sabdfl: (wrt announcements)
[06:40] <mako> and slightly more geared toward people who already know about and maybe even use ubuntu
[06:40] <sabdfl> sivang: could you draft a template, perhaps, for a country
[06:40] <sabdfl>  - space for media contacts (name, email and telephone)
[06:40] <mdz> mako: oh, let's not forget proper upgrade instructions
[06:40] <sabdfl>  - contacts for lug groups (same)
[06:40] <sivang> sabdfl: but that implies using the local language ?
[06:41] <mako> mdz: yes
[06:41] <mdz> a lot of folks will summon the courage to upgrade when preview comes
[06:41] <sabdfl>  - contacts for translators in the LoCo team who can translate the announcements :-)
[06:41] <opi> btw: when I raport Hoary/Kubuntu bugs, I'm using Ubuntu-product in Bugzilla
[06:41] <opi> will Kubuntu get own product-item, or should I just ignore it :)
[06:41] <opi> oups ;)
[06:41] <sivang> sabdfl: hehe 
[06:41] <sabdfl> opi: just use relevant source package name
[06:41] <Riddell> opi: use ubuntu, we'll hopefully have an account to assign it to soon
[06:41] <opi> sabdfl: that's what I'm doing now, it was just a minor note, since we're off the official list
[06:42] <sivang> sabdfl: I don't see why my draft would be usable by other non hebrew speaking loco teams :) but I guess I am missing the point here.
[06:42] <mako> sabdfl: you mean gnubuntu?
[06:42] <opi> Hurbuntu?
[06:42] <mako> sabdfl: rms and i exhcnage mails about it every couple weeks :)
[06:42] <sabdfl> mako: no - "the gnome face of ubuntu"
[06:42] <Riddell> sounds like gnoppix
[06:42] <sabdfl> sivang: the idea is a template for all the pieces of info that would make it easy for us to get the announcement to the right people locally
[06:42] <opi> I'm all for u(micro)buntu
[06:43] <sabdfl> the announcements would be translated, but the template is to coordinate across many countries
[06:43] <sabdfl> so if you draft a template, then fill it out for Israel, other LoCo teams can see what we need
[06:43] <opi> sabdfl: use smurfix, he will post it on a loco-leader mailing lists
[06:43] <sabdfl> for example, in south africa there are three main magazines that cover linux
[06:43] <opi> sabdfl: and you're done :-)
[06:43] <sabdfl> it would be nice to have those listed on an SA loco page
[06:43] <mako> opi: buntu
[06:43] <mdz> mako: in the upgrade instructions, we should include "now would be a good time to start using a mirror in your country"
[06:43] <mdz> mako: CC.archive.ubuntu.com
[06:43] <opi> mako: UTF-8 must die ;)
[06:44] <opi> mako: at least at my Slackware laptop
[06:44] <mako> man.. i like the idea of buntu
[06:44] <mako> opi: you're in the wrong channel and talking to the wrong person to be saying things like that
[06:44] <opi> mako: should I leave?
[06:44] <doko> mako: for embedded?
[06:45] <mako> opi: i'll fogive you ;)
[06:45] <mako> doko: yes
[06:45] <sabdfl> sivang: does that make sense?
[06:45] <m_tthew> opi: take it back -- utf-8 makes for a better, brighter world :)
[06:45] <mdz> sabdfl: do any of those magazines cover both Linux *and* your hair?
[06:45] <opi> mako: I'll start a paper work to make you a god :-)
[06:45] <sivang> sabdfl: yes, it does :) so for instance we can have contact section like:
[06:45] <sabdfl> back off, skull boy
[06:45] <opi> m_tthew: yeah, I know -- but I don't have time to hack my Slackware for that ;p
[06:45] <sivang> sabdfl: 1) Community people.
[06:45] <sivang> 2)
[06:45] <sivang> 2) COmmunity websites and portal
[06:46] <mdz> my hair is just as newsworthy as the next head-worth
[06:46] <sivang> 3) Linux printed magazines contacts
[06:46] <m_tthew> opi: you blame the moon for the clouds :)
[06:46] <sabdfl> mdz: the news in brief today...
[06:46] <sivang> 4) TV Media related (We only one, but we can try and interest them in this maybe)
[06:46] <opi> m_tthew: <song>..and I feel fine..</song> ;-)
[06:46] <opi> oh, oh!
[06:46] <sivang> sabdfl: is that whay you mean for example?
[06:47] <opi> we're going to have a big Linux fair soon
[06:47] <opi> I'd like to promote Ubuntu a little
[06:47] <mdz> when we reach the 2-hour mark, do we go into sudden-death overtime?
[06:47] <opi> any chance on getting bigger (~150) Hoary CD?
[06:47] <sabdfl> sivang: i think we may get quite a bit of interest from the bigger media if we can combine the global thing (global team, world's best developers, geek-boy cosmonaut with bad hair) with the local thing (these guys in your home town know all about it)
[06:47] <mdz> opi: I'm afraid all the CDs are the same size
[06:47] <sabdfl> bigger media per country
[06:47] <opi> I'm going to do some posters, too, so would anyone like/have to approve it
[06:47] <fabbione> opi: do you prefer hoary on LP?
[06:47] <opi> mdz: pity ;-)
[06:48] <Kamion> opi: we already have a lot of very hard to diagnose installer bugs open, which appear to be media problems
[06:48] <mdz> opi: but you can have as many as you like :-)
[06:48] <sabdfl> mdz: good point
[06:48] <opi> fabbione: this is the old school sound of Linux ;)
[06:48] <opi> mdz: thanks :))
[06:48] <Kamion> opi: these make me pretty wary of making it harder to burn CDs
[06:48] <fabbione> Kamion
[06:48] <Kamion> opi: oh, you were not asking for bigger CDs
[06:48] <Kamion> opi: you were asking for more CDs, sorry :-)
[06:48] <fabbione> Kamion: let's put hoary on old school zx81 tapes ;)
[06:49] <sabdfl> so guys, between preview and release it is ALL about this page: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/report.cgi?x_axis_field=bug_status&y_axis_field=assigned_to&z_axis_field=&query_format=report-table&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&resolution=DUPLICATE&
[06:49] <sabdfl> man, and THAT is why i dislike bugzilla
[06:49] <Alessio> about Linux Magazine: some of our community members write on some famous local magazines..
[06:49] <mdz> the rules of Community Council sudden-death overtime are that the next mention of Slackware results in the immediate end of the meeting, with the speaker sentenced to converting 5 new users to Ubuntu
[06:49] <opi> btw: if there was a Ubuntu&Debain related Conf, would anyone of you'd like to join?
[06:49] <opi> sabdfl: URI from hell!
[06:50] <mako> so are we done with the discussion of tomorrow announcement (decision: i write a draft not directly based on the full release announcement and we all work on it)?
[06:50] <fabbione> ETOOLONG
[06:50] <mdz> mako: yes please
[06:50] <mako> alright
[06:50] <sabdfl> mako: thanks!
[06:50] <sabdfl> are we done?
[06:50] <mako> any other business?
[06:50] <mako> i think so
[06:50] <opi> omg, fabbione rised exception :)
[06:50] <mako> going once...
[06:50] <mako> going twice...
[06:50] <sabdfl> thank you and good night!
[06:50] <sabdfl> cheers everyone
[06:51] <mako> cheers!
[06:51] <m_tthew> thanks, everybody
[06:51] <fabbione> cya people
[06:51] <mako> i'll write this up after the release
[06:51] <mako> proboably tomorrow
[06:51] <opi> ok, it's almost time for a soccer :)
[06:51] <mako> thanks everyone!
[06:51] <fabbione> mako: should we take a look at that rotation time for the meetings
[06:52] <mdz> back to the freedom mines
[06:52] <mako> fabbione: sure. what was your suggestion?
[06:52] <opi> bye
[06:52] <sivang> sabdfl : ok, this makes sense. I think we should also include int the announcment something which lists in details the all new features and thins "you can do out of the box" in ubuntu. I think this is lacking bits from our publications and announcments
[06:52] <fabbione> mako: very simple. a weekly rotation of the time
[06:53] <fabbione> mako: meeting[1]  00:00 UTC
[06:53] <fabbione> meeting[2]  = meeting[1]  + 6 hours
[06:53] <fabbione> and so on
[06:53] <fabbione> as simple as this
[06:53] <fabbione> we divide a day in 4 slots
[06:53] <fabbione> basically everybody in a monthly rotation gets:
[06:54] <fabbione> 2 meeting during normal hours
[06:54] <fabbione> 1 meeting early in the morning (not too bad)
[06:54] <fabbione> 1 meeting in which you need to stay up late at night
[06:54] <fabbione> in this way we never hit too badly one TZ
[06:54] <fabbione> and we suffer in rotation for the meeting late at night
[06:54] <fabbione> of course we can tune it a bit
[06:55] <fabbione> but that's the simplest i can think of to cover everybody
[06:55] <fabbione> of course this assume you have a "normal" working life
[06:55] <fabbione> waking up at 7am
[06:55] <fabbione> and going to sleep around 10pm
[06:55] <mako> um.. ok.. i'm normal shifted 2-3 hours it seems
[06:55] <fabbione> i am just guessing mako
[06:56] <fabbione> 7am - 10pm is here in dk
[06:56] <fabbione> but i mean.. you get the idea
[06:56] <pitti> mako, mdz: btw, do you want to get the announcements translated?
[06:56] <mako> pitti: full for the major release definitely
[06:56] <mako> pitti: for the preview. it's a nice to have although i'm not sure there will be time
[06:57] <pitti> mako: okay, just ping me if you need a .de version :-)
[06:57] <fabbione> mako: and i think the same has to apply to all official meetings.. CC, TB and so on
[06:58] <fabbione> mako: we never have aussies in here at this time
[06:58] <mako> fabbione: so want to have the next one at UTC22
[06:58] <mako> ?
[06:58] <mako> lets try this out for one cycle
[06:58] <fabbione> this was at 16:00.. so + 6 = 22.. yes
[06:58] <mako> alright.. sounds good
[06:58] <fabbione> we need to test at least 2 cycles
[06:58] <fabbione> 8 weeks
[06:59] <fabbione> just to let people get used to the new times
[06:59] <smurfix> Tb meeting too, I presume
[06:59] <fabbione> smurfix: yes.
[07:00] <mako> fabbione: cool
[07:00] <fabbione> mako: great!
[07:00] <fabbione> mako: perhaps we want to send it to news? or devel?
[07:01] <fabbione> just to inform people that might not have considered joining the meetings?
[07:01] <fabbione> mainly due to weird hours in their TZ?
[07:01] <mako> fabbione: i will announce it when i sent the summary of this meeting to news
[07:01] <mako> probably tomorrow
[07:01] <fabbione> cool
[07:01] <mako> after the release :)
[07:02] <fabbione> i am off to help my *wife* cooking some dinner :-)
[07:02] <fabbione> the preview ;)
[07:02] <Riddell> mako: does kubuntu get a mention in your preview announcement?
[07:15] <mako> Riddell: do you think it should or should it get a seperate announcement
[07:15] <mako> Riddell: what are you guys releaseing tomorrow/today?
[07:15] <Riddell> mako: we're releasing the first distro with 3.4 final in it, but it's still untidied 
[07:16] <Riddell> and since KDE 3.4 hasn't been released yet I don't know if we can promote that
[07:16] <Q-FUNK> Riddell: the cas eis similar to gnome 2.10, for that matter.
[07:16] <Riddell> Q-FUNK: good point  "3.4 final preview"
[07:17] <Q-FUNK> Riddell: and yet Hoary is already advertised as being gnome 2.10 -based already, if I'm not mistaken?
[07:18] <mako> Riddell:  there is no reason we can't announce it when it a little more tidied betwen now and the full release
[07:18] <mako> Riddell: and you guys might have more of the spotlight to yourself
[07:18] <mako> i mean, it's really up to to you.. and mdz 
[07:18] <Q-FUNK> :)
[07:18] <Riddell> mako: yes, would be up for that
[07:18] <Riddell> like when we have a website and things
[07:19] <mako> Riddell: i think it's worth waiting then :)
[07:19] <mako> lets not be premature :)
[07:19] <Q-FUNK> in the words of the famous Ubuntu Kenobi: mdz be with you, always.