mdzKamion: are yo ugoing to do a CD build for mvo to test before you go?12:00
Kamionmdz: yes, will do one for just i386 and amd6412:01
Kamionmdz: we're waiting for pitti's language-pack changes anyway, aren't we?12:01
lamontKamion: probably12:01
Kamionso I can do the really-final build tomorrow morning12:01
Kamionlamont: how badly?12:01
lamontthe sequence is: daily, byhand, daily, byhand12:01
mdzKamion: the language-pack issue is purely an upgrade one, but yes, I expect we will12:01
lamontotherwise your upload is b0rekd12:01
lamontwant me to force a happy upload on i386?>12:02
Kamionlamont: mdz said he byhanded something just recently12:02
Kamionlamont: will that have been b0rked?12:02
lamontcheck the dates on the files - that may have been this mornings.12:02
Kamionmdz: ?12:02
mdzI byhanded 20050309112:02
mdzwas that not the right build?12:02
lamontmdz: the issue is that the daily build script uses w-b for state-storage, and w-b trashes it.12:03
Kamion200503091 was there on four architectures12:03
=== lamont goes to look
KamionI only built two12:03
Kamiontherefore I deduce that it was not the right build12:03
mdzit was the only one in the queue12:03
jon1012someone needs some help right now ? it's strike in france tomorrow, so I on't have anything to do... so I can help tomorrow and tonight :) (I'm a C developer and a graphic designer)12:03
lamontthe other upload bounced.12:04
mdzPackage ubuntu-desktop has broken dep on esound12:04
mdz  Considering esound 0 as a solution to ubuntu-desktop 012:04
mdz  Removing ubuntu-desktop rather than change esound12:04
Kamionlamont: now that it's byhanded, it should be possible to do i386 and amd64 builds; perhaps it would be best if you disabled the cron job, so that only manual "daily" builds happen12:04
lamontactually, it claims to have intsalled that version...12:04
lamontKamion: just tell me when to reenable it.12:04
Kamionlamont: after preview :-)12:05
Kamionbut yes, will do12:05
mdzlamont: 2 more hours before we get ppc?12:05
lamontppc should enter the archive at 0103 london time12:05
lamontit is now 2306.12:06
lamontso, that'd be 1:57 :-)(12:06
=== lamont was thinking out loud
ogra_liveoh, update-manager runs in the livecd default session ?12:06
mdzis there anyone here besides mvo who can test the piix fix?12:06
lamontKamion: post hoary, I'll keep the state outside of wb and merge as needed.  Worst case, we'll skip a version number or 2.12:06
mdzogra_live: itym update-notifier12:06
lamontmdz: with a couple of 10 minute drives, I can go fetch the fix and abuse my daughters computer to test it.12:07
Kamionlamont: nod, that would be great12:07
ogra_livemdz: i'm currently running on a piix system without probs....12:07
lamontcurrent livecd verified b0rked in her computer.12:07
mdzlamont: have you reproduced the bug on that machine already?12:07
lamontthat is, this morning's12:07
mdzbecause mvo is going to need to sleep at some point12:07
ogra_livemdz: without the fixes12:07
mdzogra_live: your system is not a good test case, then :-)12:08
Kamionjon1012: currently, the bulk of development effort is going into making sure that tomorrow's preview release is rock-solid12:08
ogra_livenope :)12:08
Kamionjon1012: so we're all a bit distracted right now ...12:08
lamontKamion: what's the best way to find the state that the installer leaves things in before postfix's config/postinst run?12:08
Kamionlamont: how much before?12:08
=== lamont is really really really not happy with the interaction...
mvomdz: what is the ETA for something to test? I can manage to stay up for a bit 12:08
lamontimmediately before is fine...12:08
jon1012Kamion: that's why I ask if I can be of any help :)12:08
lamontworst case, I'll just hack the postinst/config to exit 0... :-)12:09
Kamionlamont: after it unpacks postfix, edit /target/var/lib/dpkg/info/postfix.config and put 'sleep <lots>' just after '. /usr/share/debconf/confmodule' :-)12:09
mdzlamont: we need a new i386 d-i build, right?12:09
lamontmdz: just to be sure, we should... give me a coupl eminutes12:09
Kamionjon1012: at the moment I'm afraid it's just testing testing testing, not very exciting, but welcome nonetheless12:09
Kamioncdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ and cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ are the things to test, although we'll be rolling new dailies shortly12:10
lamonti386 d-i build launched12:10
lamont03092 is our friend12:10
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Kamionlamont: could you do amd64 too?12:10
Kamion(might as well)12:10
lamontKamion: perl syntax for that sleep?  (postfix config is perl... believe it or not...)12:10
mdzmight as well wait, and do an 03093 for all architectures12:10
Kamionmdz: that won't let mvo test tonight12:11
mdzKamion: mvo is on i38612:11
lamontKamion: amd64 launched12:11
Kamionmdz: it will probably have to be 03092 on the other architectures (less confusing that way, without manual help from lamont ...)12:11
mdzI'm not feeling particularly good about all this byhanding12:11
KamionI'm not feeling particularly good about committing to sabdfl for a 1200 final build when the required d-i stuff won't arrive until close to that12:12
lamontmdz: but you're good at waving your hands... I've seen you.12:12
mdzKamion: eh?  we'll have a ppc kernel in 2 hours, and we'll build d-i shortly after that12:13
lamontmdz: let me know about 10 min before we have new images, and I'll drive down to fetch them.12:13
lamontmdz: I hope he doesn't mean midnight, because we're gonna miss that by an hour...12:13
Kamionmdz: if we're waiting for 03093 on all architectures, that's +6h or whatever for ia6412:13
mdzKamion: fuck ia6412:13
=== HiddenWolf [~hidde@136.34.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzia64 is explicitly and implicitly excluded anytime I say "all" ;-P12:14
Kamionso why bother with 03093? that's just *more* byhanding12:14
=== lamont thinks that the current official plan for hoary/ia64 is that there might be these isos on cdimage.ubuntu.com that might work.
mdzKamion: I suppose we must, because 03092 may be borked12:15
Kamionhow come?12:15
mdzor was that 091?12:16
Kamionthat was 0309112:16
Kamionthe builds lamont recently launched should be good12:16
mdzok, fine12:16
Kamionok, that explains the confusion. :)12:16
mdzso long as the next set of uploads are the last12:16
=== lamont feels less confused now
zenwhenA hoary install should swap between two sstems assuming they are both fully supported in the stock kernel perfectly, am I correct?12:16
mdz(barring further complications)12:16
mdzzenwhen: not at all12:17
zenwhenso a reinstall would be required?12:17
mdznot strictly, no12:17
Kamionyou'd probably have to rebuild the initrd12:17
mdzit would be sufficient to regenerate the initrd12:17
wasabi_and fix fstab12:17
lamontamd64/i386 uploaded, waiting for cron.hourly12:17
wasabi_if it needs fixin12:17
Kamionand fix the bootloader12:17
mdzif they require different drivers to mount the root filesystem12:17
zenwhenok cool12:18
wasabi_so does hte mkinitrd contain every storage driver or just the one that's needed?12:18
zenwhenbut how would I do that without booting the install12:18
mdzzenwhen: #ubuntu, please12:18
wasabi_you would boot it with a live cd12:18
zenwhennot to bother you guys12:18
zenwhenI got off topic again. I know you guys are busy.12:18
elmolamont: our ia64 buildds actually have 15k SCSI disks - I don't really think that constitutes "SLOW", esp. compared with powerpc's single-disk SATA12:19
mdzelmo: sabdfl insists that you sleep so that you can be abused tomorrow12:20
elmomdz: that's nice, I slept most of the afternoon tho - by mistake12:20
mdzelmo: oh, good, then you'll be up late and can byhand for us?12:20
lamontelmo: OK12:21
lamontelmo: and I apologize for calling the ia64 boxen P-O-S...  Because they cost way to much to be that... :0)12:21
elmothe boxes aren't POSes, they're just slow - IMHO, given how much they cost that's just a reflection on the state of the architecture far more than the boxes :p12:22
=== lamont knows when to not debate a point.. :0)
elmomdz: anything for me to do now before I go catchup on what I missed?12:23
mdzelmo: there should be i386 and amd64 d-i builds in byhand now or shortly12:24
lamontwaiting there for at least 4 minutes...12:24
HiddenWolfelmo: is there actually a market for ia64 tux distro's?12:24
lamontHiddenWolf: that's the question12:25
lamontand so far, the answer seems to be somewhere between "NO", and "NFC"12:25
HiddenWolf(if I was feeling evil, i'd say 'are there any ia64's in the wild?' now, i'd say  that if one wants a ia64 box, one wants support with it)12:26
Kamionelmo: catch up on the NIGHTMARE12:27
HiddenWolfkamion: how's it going?12:28
KamionHiddenWolf: it's going ... :)12:29
KamionI'm going to pass out soon and hand the baton to others12:29
elmoi386/amd64 processed12:30
HiddenWolfKamion: what was the show-stopper?12:30
KamionHiddenWolf: ata_piix breakage with ATA_ENABLE_PATA12:31
=== HiddenWolf is drooling at enlightenment
=== stub [~stub@dsl-] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzmvo: while you are waiting, I could use more ideas about how to address the esound/polypaudio upgrade issue12:40
mvomdz: is there a bugnumber? I haven't followed the discussion12:42
mdzmvo: no, there is no bug currently, but I should open one12:42
mdzmvo: so ubuntu-desktop depended on polypaudio, which also provides esound, and now we want upgrades to bring in the real esound package and remove polypaudio12:43
jdubthe versioned depend didn't work?12:44
mdz(one way of looking at) the problem is, apt will consider polypaudio more important than ubuntu-desktop12:44
mdzbecause polypaudio is depended upon by several other packages (its plugins)12:44
mdzso apt will prefer to remove ubuntu-desktop and keep polypaudio12:44
mvomdz: a nasty situation12:44
mdzmvo: yes12:45
mdzone solution might be to remove polypaudio from the archive12:45
mvomdz: it's a drastic one, but it will certainly work :)12:45
mdzand then force a conflict12:45
jdubremove the provides temporarily?12:45
mdzbut I would prefer to find another way12:45
mdzremoving the provides does not help12:46
jdubit still prefers to remove u-d?12:46
mdzapt says: ubuntu-desktop needs esound, but when I upgrade polypaudio, esound will be gone.  I can remove ubuntu-desktop, or remove these 5 other packages of equal priority.  I'll remove ubuntu-desktop12:46
elmoadd a pre-depends on ubuntu-desktop to dpkg.  that'll learn apt.12:46
jdubso, i'm not sure why we want to force the upgrade12:47
jduba particular class of users use hoary before preview12:47
jduband we can note it as an upgrade issue12:47
mdzthe problem with that12:47
jdubdo we need to do anything more drastic than that?12:47
mdzis that it doesn't accomplish a damn thing12:47
mdzwe will still have thousands of users running polypaudio forever12:48
mdzthe right thing to do is to transition them to esound12:48
jdubthey're using a development branch, things change, and we can always point out the note if they raise an issue12:48
jdubon this timescale, we're going to have to deal with that kind of thing12:49
Kamionelmo: *laugh*12:49
mdzwhat timescale?12:49
jdubsix month releases12:49
Kamionooh, openssh 4.012:49
mdzI don't see what relevance that has12:49
jdubparticularly once sarge is done and sid gets interesting again12:49
mdz"screw you, you ran the development branch" is not a good solution12:49
jdubit's not that bad12:50
Kamion* Improved sftp(1) client, including bugfixes and optimisations for the 12:50
Kamion  ``ls'' command and command history and editing support using libedit.12:50
elmoI think it is FWIW12:50
KamionABOUT TIME12:50
jdubwe have a responsibility to cleanly upgrade releases; devel branch interestingness is par for the course12:50
mdzKamion: !12:51
Kamionoh, THANK GOD, they finally fixed the "store port numbers in known_hosts" thing12:51
KamionI've lost count of the bugs I have about that12:51
Kamionerm, at least I think they did, the changelog is not entirely clear12:51
HrdwrBoBthe primary problem with sftp is you have to have a login account to use it12:51
Kamionactually maybe not, oh well12:52
mdzHrdwrBoB: you're thinking of scp12:52
mdzsftp addresses exactly that problem12:52
HrdwrBoBmdz: sftp too12:52
HrdwrBoBunless it's change in the last six months12:52
mdznope, from the beginning12:52
Kamionthat's a bit like saying "the primary problem with apples is that they aren't oranges"12:53
Kamionsftp is very useful within its use case12:53
mdzunless you mean something other than "shell access" when you say "login account"12:53
Kamionbut certainly yes, the subsystem facility in SSH2 is meant to allow for this kind of thing12:53
mdzKamion: shall we roll a CD build for mvo?12:53
KamionI thought you were talking about lack of anonymous sftp12:53
HrdwrBoBmdz: yeah12:54
Kamionmdz: about to12:54
HrdwrBoBnot not anon ftp12:54
Kamionbuilding amd64/i386, no jigdo12:54
Kamionnote that this means people will see powerpc "disappearing" from daily/current12:55
Kamionmight want to direct them to 20050309.112:55
lamontKamion: does that mean that later when ppc is done, we gen all 3?12:56
Kamionyeah, but I'll probably just do that tomorrow morning12:56
lamontor just ppc, and do some hand migration of files/links?12:56
elmoOOI where did the other two arches go?12:58
Kamionelmo: waiting for updated kernels12:58
Kamionno point otherwise12:58
Kamionlamont: we're getting updated language-packs anyway12:59
Kamionmvo: ok, images up for you12:59
Kamionhttp://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20050309.2/hoary-install-i386.iso or equivalent rsync12:59
mvoKamion: thanks, downloading now01:00
Kamioncjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/full/daily/current$ isoinfo -R -i hoary-install-i386.iso -x /install/initrd.list | grep sata-modules01:00
Kamionsata-modules-2.6.10-4-386-di 2.6.10-25.101:00
jdubmdz: the timescale is relevant because the amount of change in a short period of time forces you to be comfortable with push-and-revert as a change management technique; it's tougher for us because we also have packaging toolset issues to consider.01:01
mdzjdub: our rate of change is slower than Debian's01:02
jdubmdz: unfortunately, epochs and task packages are icky things, and everyone wants to feel a certain level of cleanliness.01:02
=== jon1012 [~jon@AMontsouris-151-1-40-250.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzthis is a technical issue; the fact that the solution isn't apparent doesn't mean that we throw up our hands just yet01:03
=== GheRivero [~ghe@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzI assume you agree that if we can transition everyone, that's simply better01:03
mdzso I'm going to continue to look for a way01:04
jdubsure, but i'm not going to scrub my hands twice a day and flick lightswitches 9 times to make sure :)01:04
=== HiddenWolf [~hidde@136.34.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzcertainly not01:04
jdubour policy implementation is pretty brittle01:05
jdub(and on the agenda for UDU)01:05
thomhm, Message-ID: <a2ce2a0e050309155334320d1d@mail.gmail.com> on users is presumably just a reiteration of fabio's problem01:06
mdzthom: can you ask them to test the latest daily?01:06
thommdz: sure can01:07
KamionI just sent mail about that01:07
Kamionsaying exactly that :)01:08
Kamionand I just got bug #7386 about it too01:08
Kamionamazing how it's obvious how many things are the same problem once it's diagnosed01:10
jbaileythom: Figured out the sulogin problem.  This was a sarge->hoary upgraded machine, and sysvinit is newer in sarge.01:10
Kamionsigh, see #144001:11
Kamionsomebody who's awake please diagnose01:12
=== Burgundavia [~Burgundav@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionalthough actually I suspect he has a piix chipset01:12
Kamionperhaps he installed with array 6 or greater, and is therefore relying on the devices being scsi01:13
lamontKamion: wouldn't surprise me...01:13
lamontmust ask him though01:13
lamontI think at this point, if we wind up re-opening 1440 with -25.1, we still ship, and call it RC for release01:13
jbaileyI'll reply to it, just a sec.01:13
lamontshipping -25 is completely unacceptable, since it causes data corrpution01:13
lamontjbailey: thanks01:13
jbaileyIs it impolite for me to add him to the cc: list of the bug and just reply to the bug?01:14
Kamionnot in my book01:15
Kamion(i.e. go ahead)01:15
jbaileyLovely.  I don't want to lose things from the trail.01:16
=== Micksa [~mslade@203-217-18-166.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionnight folks01:18
lamontKamion: remind me..01:19
jbaileyg'n Colin01:19
lamontthe end of stage 1 is after debootstrap, but basically before just about everything else?01:19
lamontor what else happens before the reboot?01:19
lamontthat is, how much of base-* has run?01:19
Kamionlamont: debootstrap, kernel install, initrd-tools install and initrd generation, archive-copier, timezone/shadow/apt config, bootloader setup, bits and pieces to prepare for base-config01:20
Kamionbase-config has not yet run, although a few bits of it have (timezone/apt config)01:20
lamontKamion: and btw....01:21
lamontfor hoary+1 we should really notice when there's only one network cable plugged in (and eth1 doesn't have link), and just use that...01:22
Kamionmii/ethtool lies sometimes01:22
Kamionit's infuriating and crap but apparently true01:22
lamontanyway, sleep01:23
=== lamont bbia 5-10 min
HiddenWolfI'm afraid to ask, but is there any place where I can check up on the gnome 2.12 -> 3.x goals?01:24
thomHiddenWolf: live.gnome.org is the gnome wiki01:25
thomcertainly there's 3.0 discussion there01:25
HiddenWolfthom: thanks, the gnome website is a jungle01:25
thomjdub: ^^01:26
jdubuh huh01:26
jdublive is wildly unliked from everywhere :)01:27
jdubha ha01:27
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elmoW: GPG error: http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary Release: Could not execute /usr/bin/gpgv to verify signature (is gnupg installed?)01:30
elmothat's a bit spethial01:30
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=== T-Bone is now known as T-None
=== T-None uninterruptible_sleep();
jbaileyT-None: That sounds like a challenge.01:33
T-Nonenot for me, I promise :)01:33
jbaileyT-None: Hah!  I was succesful.01:33
T-Nonedamn you ;)01:34
lamontdh_fixperms -s01:37
lamontxargs: chown: terminated by signal 401:37
lamontdh_fixperms: command returned error code01:37
=== lamont SCREAMS!!
lamontmdz: linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-25.1_20050310-0012 03:08:44 (5 entries, sigma 01:28:21)01:38
lamontso, depending on it's mood, I'm inclined to believe the worst (04:36), but hey...01:38
lamontplan on seeing ppc kernel binaries somewhere around 0333 or 040301:39
lamontjbailey: find that ppc SIGILL source and kill it, 'k?01:39
jbaileylamont: You sure it's not hardware?  I don't do a ton of compiling, but I've done gcc and glibc a few times and not seen it on my box.01:40
lamontjbailey: happens on our good boxes, which pass memtests and such. happens on debian's buildd.01:41
lamontpredominantly during kernel compiles and other really long builds01:41
lamontbut not always01:41
=== RatherD [~lkjdsfljk@pool-151-197-21-131.phil.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== koke 's eyes are about to close
lamontso do we have something pretty to use for labels for hoary-preview local burns?"01:42
jdubhopefully for release we will01:42
lamontjdub: grumble01:42
lamontjdub: but I want it, NOW!!!!!01:43
=== jdub sends lamont a picture of a bum with a fist coming out of it.
lamont(with apologies to willy wonka)01:43
lamonthow about a piix chipset with a red circle-slash?01:43
mdzlamont: DOH01:44
lamontmdz: uh, yeah.01:44
=== lamont considers just launching it on all 3, to see which one wihns
lamontactually, I think I will do that01:44
mdzlamont: I don't suppose ccache is working on that box01:44
lamontmdz: well, it gets pretty invalidated.01:45
lamontall 3 ppc boxes are taking a stab at the build...01:45
lamontone of them will make it, and I apologize for what it'll look like under buildLogs...01:45
mdzlamont: it gets invalidated? why?01:45
lamonteither size or variety of compiliations01:46
mdzthe size of that cache, last time we talked about it, is way larger than a kernel build01:46
mdzO(gigabytes), no?01:46
lamontcache hit                          4323001:47
lamontcache miss                        14173301:47
lamontcache size is 7-10 GB on those machines01:48
mdz...and 1440 has been reopened01:48
mdzthough it doesn't sound like the same issue, it is a new issue with -25.101:48
lamontwell, given that we removed part of the change that fixed him in -25, and things broke, I expect that it may be highly related.01:49
lamontbut I don't think 1440 is necessarily a preview-blocker01:49
lamontcertainly a release-blocker01:49
mdzwho is him?01:49
lamontthe final commenter who reopened it01:50
lamontthat jbailey replied to01:50
mdzhe had not participated in the bug until that time01:51
mdzas far as i know he wasn't experiencing #1440, and his symptoms don't sound the same01:51
jbaileyI can check against my laptop and against the SATA machine.01:51
jbaileylaptop will happen tonight, the sata machine is best rebooted early in the morning.01:52
jbaileyThe 'too much time' comment also doesn't make alot of sense.01:53
zenwhenis 1440 an install blocker?01:53
lamontzenwhen: the "fix" for it in -25 was01:55
HiddenWolfzenwhen: it'll mess a lot of people up if it isn't fixed, so yes01:55
lamontmdz: do we have new i386/amd64 images?01:55
zenwheni have a machine with sata I can test array 6 on. Would that information be of ANY benifit?01:55
mdzmvo: have you been able to test the CD?01:55
mdzlamont: yes01:55
zenwhenIts the newest disk I have.01:56
lamontmdz: OK.  off to go download, I guess01:56
mdzzenwhen: array 6 is pretty much irrelevant at this point01:56
zenwhenok. just checking.,01:56
mvomdz: download/burning just finished, booting now01:56
mdzmvo: great, thanks01:56
zenwhenll be doing daily install testing and stuff for you guys in a month.01:56
lamontcdimage/daily-live/current/hoary-live-i386.iso, yes?01:57
lamontwhy is that claiming to be current....01:57
lamontor are the current links not moved yet?01:57
mvomdz: is working now01:58
mvomdz: only piix is loaded, no ata_piix01:58
=== lamont finds himself confused.... ENOCURRENTIMAGE
mdz<Kamion> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20050309.2/hoary-install-i386.iso or equivalent rsync01:59
mdzmvo: ok, good01:59
mvomdz: I continue installing now and see if it goes all well01:59
lamontah, no livecd then. got it.02:00
mdzdoes anyone here have a system with SATA disks?02:00
elmothe powerpc buildds do - dunno if that counts02:00
mdzSATA disk and ATAPI CD-ROM?02:00
jbaileymdz: Yes.02:00
mdzjbailey: but you said you couldn't test until morning02:00
mdzmorning for you is the time we need our final candidate build02:01
jbaileymdz: Lemme just check about doing it now, hold a sec.02:01
HiddenWolfguys: don't forget to update the release notes; now 'on the very same day as the gnome 2.10 release' is 'a mere day after the release of gnome 2.10' 02:02
zenwhen"Before anyone else. Thats all that counts."02:03
HiddenWolfagreed, but the release notes state 'on the same day' 02:04
zenwhenOh, I agree. I was adding.02:04
jbaileymdz: All we need is a reboot test to see if it sees the cdrom, right?02:05
mdzjbailey: I think so02:06
mdzjbailey: the fact that he's talking about disks to me indicates that he isn't experiencing the CD-ROM problem02:07
mdzjbailey: I think Colin's guess is reasonable02:07
=== lamont grumbles at the machine he was testing on
mdzhe probably installed with array 6, has a /dev/sd* device in /etc/fstab because of it, and now his disk is a /dev/hd* device02:08
lamontmdz: that would make sense02:08
=== HiddenWolf is so glad he's been on hoary from the start
=== Safari_Al [~tr@ppp51-83.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontnothing like an expert install to make you appreciate Kamion's work02:09
mdzjbailey: if you can reconfirm with -25.1, I'll follow up02:09
jdublamont: hear hear.02:09
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jbaileymdz: Cool.  After this I need to run out and meet my wife.  It's out wedding aniversary today. =)02:09
mdzelmo: I'm not sure if that counts either02:10
HiddenWolfjbailey: congratulations02:10
lamontjbailey: happy anniversary to both of you02:10
=== minghua|working [~minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
lamonter, you both, even. :-)02:10
jdubjbailey: congrats. years?02:10
thomjbailey: congrats02:10
jbaileyjdub: 3 =)02:10
mdzyou crazy people and your marriages02:10
jdubjbailey: cool :)02:11
thommdz: it seems fashionable currently...02:11
m_tthewmdz: hear hear02:11
=== HiddenWolf goes and looks up the stats that show there are more singles than ever
ogramdz: doesnt it save taxes in US ?02:12
jbaileyjdub: That doesn't scare me as much as the fact that in January we celebrated 9 years of being together...  02:12
jdubthom: you know pipka would kick your butt for that comment. :-)02:12
jdubthom: btw, measurements?02:12
jbaileyIn that time my sister was engaged twice, married once, had a kid and got divorced. =)02:12
mdzogra: no, it only saves you from filing two tax returns02:12
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m_tthewogra: in fact, it can hurt in us taxes02:13
jdubogra: (so only one of you needs to be able to spell)02:13
mdzHiddenWolf: marriage is on the rise in Ubuntu02:13
kokemmm, someone had asked for cd labels??02:13
ogramdz: if i would marry my gf it would drop mine about a third 02:13
HiddenWolfmdz: in the general population, it's going down, in all minorities except gays, actually. :)02:13
jdubogra: that's the perfect start to a proposal :-)02:13
mdzHiddenWolf: and except Ubuntu developers02:14
jdubogra: "the money we save can go to a honeymoon in... um... sydney. in april. yeah."02:14
mdza tiny but growing minority02:14
ograjdub: remember i dont pay taxes currently ;)02:14
HiddenWolfmdz; let's hope it grows fast. :)02:14
mdzm_tthew: I don't suppose you have any SATA boxen lying around02:14
thomjdub: heh; i'll get them for you by monday02:14
jdubthom: ta. pia is very excited about your frock.02:15
jbaileyrebooting it..02:15
=== thom throws things at jdub idly
thomactually; WHY IS IT 01:15? i was going to bed at midnight02:16
jbaileyIt takes about three minutes to reboot from here until I see grub on the serial console.02:16
jdubgute nacht02:16
ograjdub: GF says she wants a more romantic reason than this ....02:16
dredgogra: tell her she's not commited enough02:16
kokelamont: a present for you ;) http://www.amedias.org/~koke/misc/ubuntu-preview-cd.svg02:17
dredgor don't... :)02:17
jbaileyogra: Weddings are not romantic.  Weddings are where you get to learn just how ugly you both can be.  It forms the bonds on which you can build romance later ;)02:17
=== jdub has fried brain, ploddingly upgrades his home server to hoary
kokelamont: you even can do export CURDATE=`date -u +%Y%m%d%H%M`; cat ubuntu-preview-cd.svg | sed -e "s/YYYYMMDDHHMM/$CURDATE/" > ubuntu-preview-cd.$CURDATE.svg02:17
ograjbailey: its not about weddingd, its about the reason for it :)02:18
thomhrm; firefox asking what app to display something with, with the default set to firefox, could get kinda recursive02:18
jdubogra: ha ha02:18
dredgogra: right. cake.02:18
jbaileymdz: On the SATA HD, IDE CD system I no longer see the CD at all.02:19
lamontkoke: to do what?02:19
mdzjbailey: IOW, 1440 has indeed regressed02:19
mdzand in addition, all SATA systems installed with array 6 are rendered unbootable02:19
kokeput the build date in the label or wathever you want (array cd X)02:19
kokeor you can remove the build line :)02:20
jdubkoke: nice svg :-)02:20
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mdzwe may even be worse off than before! :-P02:20
kokeCD's are 12cm ?02:21
kokeI can't remember02:21
mvomdz: grub failed on my system (test-install). error in in unifont it seems02:21
jbaileymdz: I don't see how they would be unbootable.  My sata system still sees all the drivers as /dev/sda* anbd /dev/sdb*02:21
jbaileyJust no cdrom as part of the set.02:21
mdzjbailey: but it's not piix02:21
jbaileyThis is ata_piix02:21
mdzata_piix shouldn't be used with -25.102:21
=== koke sleep(MIN_SLEEP_TIME)
jbaileymdz: It is because initrd-tools is stupid and keep loading whatever you had before.02:22
jbaileyBut right, I see your point.  Other systems may have detected it as piix and gotten installed that way.02:22
jbaileyOy, nasty.02:22
mdzthis whole hd* vs. sd* has been a disaster from the beginning02:22
mdzbut to see the same hardware both ways is insane02:22
jbaileyMy piix laptop (all pure IDE) sees HD and cdrom fine.02:23
mdzjbailey: was your piix laptop broken with -25?02:23
jbaileymdz: No.02:23
jbaileyBut again, off of an upgrade, not off of a new install.02:23
jbaileyThese problems will show up more clearly with hotplug in the initramfs.02:24
mvothe error is (on seting up unifont): "/usr/X11R6/bin/mkfontscale: No such file for directory" 02:24
mvohas anyone seen this before?02:24
=== robertj [~robertj@66-188-77-153.cpe.ga.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzmvo: never. I thought you said the problem was grub?02:24
jbaileyGotta run, back in a couple of hours.02:25
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mdzit is not at all clear to me that -25.1 is an improvement over -25, overall02:25
mvomdz: that the message from debconf, but I see on the console that the actual problem is that one package (unifont) was not fully installed and dpkg tries to configure it now02:25
mdzfixes mvo, breaks jbailey02:25
mdzmvo: check /var/log/syslog02:26
dredgmvo: xbase-clients: /usr/X11R6/bin/mkfontscale02:26
mdzor is it /var/log/messages02:26
mdz /var/log at any rate02:26
mdzmvo: is there any earlier failure which could be responsible?02:27
mvomdz: there is a E: Couldn't find package bterm-unifont02:28
mvo(greping for unifont)02:28
mdzmvo: which locale are you using?02:28
mvomdz: german02:29
mvohere are some more: "E: couldn't find localization-config, jfbterm"02:30
mvoand it does not install xbase-clients (which according to dreg has mkfontscale)02:31
mvoonly "cpp cpp-3.3 libfreetype6 libfs6 unifont xorg-common xutils"02:31
mdzthat's because unifont doesn't depend on it02:31
=== jlj [~agp@host-81-191-64-79.bluecom.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzbut unifont doesn't get installed on my systems, either02:31
lamontmdz: what can I do to be most useful?  thinking fetch the damn install image, and verify locally, eh?02:32
mdzlamont: yes02:32
=== goedson [~goedson@BHE048194.res-com.wayinternet.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontright. back online and off again for a bit.02:32
mdzlamont: at this point we need to figure out how bad -25.1 is and what to do about it02:32
mdzmvo: wait02:32
mdzmvo: is this stage 1 or stage 2?02:33
mdzmvo: I had assumed stage 1 because you said grub failed to install02:33
=== thully [~thully@164.sub-166-155-116.myvzw.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mvomdz: stage 102:33
mdzmvo: unifont is only installed when you use certain locales02:33
mdzas I understand it02:33
mdzthully: before you ask where the preview release is, please read ubuntu-devel or /topic02:34
crimsunmvo: When you have time, a question regarding gnome-apt in hoary/universe: I rebuilt it against apt 0.6.34, which necessitated a change to src/gdeb/main.cc:Filelist() [line 231] . I take it 'ExtractTar tpart (df->GetFile(), data->Size, "gzip");' is sufficient?02:34
mvooh, I hit "greek" (very close to german) at the beginning, but I changed that to german afterwards02:34
thullyno - I already saw the delay notice02:34
mvocrimsun: I already uploaded a fixed version02:34
mvocrimsun: it will understand both gzip and bzip2 :)02:34
crimsunmvo: thanks.02:34
mdzmvo: ok, that's what caused it02:34
mdzmvo: you found a bug02:34
mvocrimsun: but your analysis is correct, "gzip" would have done it for virtually all cases02:35
mvomdz: a interessting one02:35
mvomdz: I guess I report it now and try again02:35
mdzmvo: what I don't understand is why this caused grub to fail02:36
bob2the smartlink modem drivers in hoary are broken02:36
bob2since they Depend on kernel-image-blah02:37
mdzbob2: universethx02:37
mvomdz: unifont fail and then grub is installed and dpkg tries to setup unifont (that failed before). so the run fails and debconf reports it as a grub failure02:37
bob2mdz: does this mean I get to make MOTU fix it?02:37
mdzthis is the preview release crisis channel :-P02:37
mdzbob2: it means we aren't very sympathetic in this particular channel right now02:37
bob2hah, I'll get out of your way then, sorry02:37
mvoand the sleepy people channel (at least in my case)02:37
ogramvo: mine too, but its to exciting to go to bed :)02:39
mdzmvo: file the bug against xutils02:39
mdzmvo: mkfontdir (xutils) calls mkfontscale (xbase-clients) but xutils doesn't depend on xbase-clients02:39
mdzdaniels: ^^^02:39
mvomdz: commited as #739102:40
mvomdz: isn't there still a bug in the installer? my language is german not greek so there is probably no need to installed the unifont package02:41
mvoogra: exciting? *cough*02:41
mdzmvo: when you select your language, it queues packages for installation02:42
mdzthere is no mechanism to undo that if you switch languages02:42
mvomdz: aha, ok :)02:42
mvofair enough02:42
mdzmvo: probably it should not allow you to change your language, but force you to start over02:42
mdzmvo: so probably worth a bug02:42
jon1012good night everybody :)02:43
elmoMithrandir: ?02:43
dredgok, excessive problems focusing. 02:43
=== dredg beds
mvomdz: not tonight :)02:43
m_tthewmdz: I have no SATA drives anywhere02:44
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m_tthewI do have SATA amd64 hardware, though.02:44
ograbob2: put the slmodem package here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUTodo02:44
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mdzmy current feeling is that since -25.1 seems to have regressed #1440 anyway, we should revert the patch entirely, rather than only the half of it that we did already02:46
=== lamont_r rsync
lamont_rwe could do that02:47
jdubdpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/perl-base_5.8.4-6_i386.deb (--unpack):02:47
jdub trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/perl/5.8', which is also in package liblockfile-simple-perl02:47
jdub^ hrm02:48
ograjdub: i thought that was fixed....02:48
jdubmeh, universe package02:48
ograjdub: nope02:48
jdubliblockfile is02:49
lamont_rmdz: if we completely reverse it, then we get backto a very known state...02:49
ograjdub: perl dependency bug02:49
lamont_rand at that point, we can start thuroughly exploring the various combinations of things, to deal with the issue correctly.02:49
mdzany other kernel team folk around to offer an opinion?02:50
lamont_rt-bone and fabbione fell over a whileback02:50
lamont_rzul is sitting at about 2050 now, should be around if he's not outand about02:50
lamont_rjbailey went to do marital things.02:51
lamont_rand so I think it is down to you, and it is down to me.02:51
lamont_rsadly, I think reverting it completely still leaves anyone who installed with -25 in a bad world, given the right (wrong) hardware02:52
ograjdub: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-February/004964.html02:52
mdzin favour of -25.1: it's already built and ready, and it seems to fix the PIIX issue from -2502:52
bob2ogra: thanks!02:52
mdzin favour of reverting more: more tested code path02:52
=== lamont_r has an install CD image... anything more before I run back home?
mdzif we can get any responses from #1440, that'll give us more information to go on02:52
mdzlamont_r: I don't suppose so02:53
jdubogra: ahr02:53
lamont_rok.  back online in about 5-10 then02:53
jdubso perl-base should conflict with earlier versions or soemthing02:53
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ograjdub: since pitti rebuilt perl last week i thought it was fixed02:53
mdzjdub: hell no02:53
jdubwhat's the or-something?02:54
mdza new versioned conflict in an essential package is not a place I want to go right now02:54
jdubi'm totally not talking about "right now"02:55
mdzjdub: "it's an unsupported package, too bad"02:55
mdzI suggest applying your earlier strategy for polypaudio here02:55
jdubbitterness aside, this is a different issue02:56
ograjdub: i'll write down my experience with angry users for you ;)02:56
mdzit's the same issue02:57
jdubi think it's pretty demonstrably not02:59
jdubit's not relevant to the preview, however02:59
=== zul [~chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzzul: hi03:02
mdzzul: we're trying to decide whether to roll back the remainder of the patch for #144003:02
zulis it not working?03:03
mdzzul: well, it seems that it has caused #1440 to recur anyway03:03
zuli would roll it back then03:03
mdzI had hoped to get some feedback from the people who experienced #1440, but the only example we seem to be able to get right now (one of jbailey's machines) doesn't see its CD-ROM now03:04
zulgah...then the patch doesnt fix it then we have to look to at another way then03:05
mdzthere's also the issue (commented in #1440) where people who generated initrds using -25 may not be bootable with -25.1, but I tihnk we're stuck with that one03:05
lamontah, zul is back03:05
zulsorry i jut got back from futsal03:05
jdubi'm not even sure how useful my test will be03:06
mdza new kernel build costs us something over 4 hours03:06
mdzdeadline is in 10 hours03:06
jdubreports so far seem to be using same controller03:06
mvomdz: stage1 completted, correct this time03:06
mdzmvo: thanks for testing03:06
zulis it not detecting any cd-rom or is it just the i/o corruption03:06
mdzMar 09 17:23:21 <jbailey>       mdz: On the SATA HD, IDE CD system I no longer see the CD at all.03:07
=== lamont burns a CD
mdzI believe that's the system where jbailey tested the fix for #1440, so it's pretty solid evidence03:08
mdzbut it is only a single instance03:08
lamontmdz: and reverting the rest of the patch doesn't correct that issue either, right?03:09
mdzat this point I am leaning toward reverting it entirely, but am concerned about the time we lose by doing that03:09
mdzlamont: it definitely doesn't03:09
zullamont: then you are right back at square one 03:09
mdzbut it tells us that the portion of the patch we are still applying is not giving us the benefit we hoped03:09
zuli would say bite the bullet03:09
mdzand could be causing other unknown problems03:09
mdzthey're both bullets :-)03:10
mdzlamont: how are those ppc builds doing?03:10
mdzthat is, how long until we could actually have -25.1 all around if we wanted it?03:10
lamontmdz: 2 still chugging along03:12
zulcouldnt you leave it in powerpc but disable it in 686 et al?03:12
mdzlamont: what time did they start?03:12
=== lamont finds the failure on the other one rather confusing, probably related to my evilness
mdzzul: it's a possibility03:12
zulfind like a really fast computer and shoe horn it in03:13
lamont0012 and 0045 respectively03:13
mdzso nearly half finished03:13
lamontpower4 done x2, power 3 in prog on one, done on the other.03:14
=== lupusBE [~lupus@dD5772F9B.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzhmm, jbailey's system was piix03:17
mdzI guess that explains why it regressed for him03:17
mdzI wonder if all of the #1440 problems were in fact piix systems03:17
=== lamont goes to boot his daughter's machine
zulthey probably were because there were some positive bug reports03:18
mdzthe ones where dmesg output is available, seem to be03:18
mdzso we established that the only effect of ATA_ENABLE_PATA was to cause ata_piix to be used for certain devices03:19
lamontdaughter's piix/no-sata computer is fixed with 25.103:20
mdzso if that's the bit that fixed it, that seems to imply that piix doesn't see the CD devices, but ata_piix does03:20
lamontmdz: whatever got loaded on my daughter's computer saw the CD...03:20
mdzwhat other drivers use libata currently?03:20
mdzlamont: as far as i know, #1440 has only ever been observed on sata systems03:21
mdzI'm leaning toward staying with -25.103:21
mdzATA_ENABLE_ATAPI could very well fix some instances of #144003:22
mdzzul: or, apparently, it could break things entirely :-)03:22
mdzok, let's back it out03:23
lamontmdz: well -25 died beautifully on my daughter's machine...03:23
=== tritium [~rimbert@12-202-90-180.client.insightBB.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
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mdzlamont: right, so you confirmed that the piix regression is fixed by reverting ATA_ENABLE_PATA03:23
zulmdz: yeah i think turning into the black sheep of the kernel team thanks...;)03:25
mdzzul: hmm?03:26
mdzlook reasonable?03:28
mdzI just copied 00list-25.1 to 00list-25.2 and removed enable_atapi_ata-2.dpatch from it03:28
mdzand copied the $#!$#@!$ hppa list03:28
=== mdz growls at lamont
elmohmm, if we're going to have more kernel uploads, I'm going to find a 24 hour shop with kaffeine03:28
mdzelmo: it might be better to just get some sleep03:29
=== lamont looks up
lamontmdz: pretty please also copy 00list-25.1.hppa03:29
lamontoh.  much clearer now03:30
mdzlamont: <mdz> and copied the $#!$#@!$ hppa list03:30
zulmdz: nothing :) we can try building a test kernel after the preview to test the enable_atapi03:30
elmomdz: you won't be needing ftp-ish stuff for a while?03:30
mdzok, I'm uploading this, then03:30
lamontmdz: that would be the patch I would do03:30
lamontI'll push it into baz then03:30
mdzelmo: not for hours03:30
=== jdub [~jdub@home.waugh.id.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzand I can do it in a pinch03:30
lamontelmo: although a little cron.daily love wouldn't hurt, once the upload is there03:30
lamontalthough 15 minutes on 4 hours doesn't really make much differencce03:31
mdzperhaps we shouldn't bother with powerpc03:31
lamontare there any ppc machines taht would be affected by this?03:32
=== jdub [~jdub@home.waugh.id.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzapparently there are ppcs at the data centre with sata03:33
mdzanyway, -25.2 uploaded03:33
jdub_surely it's controllers that support both pata and sata03:33
mdz3 minutes past cron.daily03:33
=== marcin_ant [~marcin@www.e-dev.tele2.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdub_that's what most of the libata warnings have been about03:34
jdub_my sii+piix machine doesn't get any of thise03:34
mdzjdub_: neither #1440 with -25.1, nor the piix bug with -25?03:34
jdub_definitely not 144003:35
jdub_i'll have to install -2503:35
zulis the -25.1 with the pata set back to #undef?03:36
lamontzul: yes03:36
mdzyes, and -25.2 reverts both enable_pata and enable_atapi03:37
mdzelmo: I would not object if you were to kick cron.daily to save us 20 minutes03:37
lamontzul: through the simple technique of removing the patch from 00list-25.203:37
jdub_no, not even worth trying here, this class of bug can't affect me03:37
elmomdz: will do, waitin for exising one to finish03:37
zullamont: lol03:37
jdub_i have a sata only sii board, separate from my piix onboard controller03:38
elmoone day I'll get cron.daily not to actually run every 30mins - pitti's habit of leaving security crap in queue/accepted causes that atm03:38
lamontelmo: queue/pitti-crap?03:38
lamontwhat we need to gather is a list of all the combinations, and who (competent to test) has them03:39
=== goedson [~goedson@BHE048194.res-com.wayinternet.com.br] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
=== lamont goes to force the failure of -25.1 on ppc
lamontmdz: or do we want to let that finish?03:40
mdzlamont: no, -25.2 is the one true build03:41
zulif you enable pata in ata_piix on 0x7x111 0x24dh and 0x25a2 are turned on if im following it correctly03:41
mdzwe're going to fix the fact that it applies and unapplies 27 sets of patches for each build, right?03:41
lamontwow.  killmake is pretty effective... :-)03:41
mdzzul: right03:42
zulmdz: oh hell yeah we are going to fix that03:42
mdzzul: which caused both ata_piix and piix to be loaded for the same device, which broke03:42
lamontzul: and that directly leads to 2 drivers thinking they own the dma engine, if I'm understanding this morning's discussion03:42
zulah ok..03:42
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lamontdo they make CDRW's that'll do better than 10x?03:45
mdzthe ones I have here say 16x-24x03:46
lamontguess I should buy some then03:46
lamontand give these 8X beasts to someone in need03:47
mdzyou can have mine03:47
mdzi've given up on writable CD media03:47
mdzit's all crap, and so is cdrecord03:47
lamontyou just burn cd-r's?03:47
mdzI mostly use DVD+RW; the discs I have are 4xDVD speed, so ~36xCD03:47
lamontah, cool03:48
=== lamont has a supply of dvd+r media, but sadly many of the machines in the house really like CD-RW or CD-R...
mdzthe media is a bit more expensive (I think these were ~$2 apiece in packs of 10)03:48
mdzbut it seems to have a much lower failure rate than CD-RW, so it's at least a wash, and probably cheaper overall03:48
lamontdon't ask why I have ~75 of the 4X dvd+r disks03:49
lamont(they were on sale, you see...)03:49
zulhah cheapies you get what you pay for03:49
lamontwork pretty well..03:49
lamonton sale == ~$40/2503:50
zulnot bad03:50
lamontinstead of $55 or so03:50
=== lamont has a stack of 4-6X CD-R media that he's going to burn hoary-live CD's on.
lamontnote: debuging postinst scripts in packages that are part of base is a royal pita03:51
=== minghua [~minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mvomdz: it's fetching some packages from the net, should it do that?03:56
=== lamont does a server install
mvomostly german locale stuff it seems03:56
mdzmvo: not during the main aptitude run, but for the language support, yes03:56
mvoyes, for language support, 23,7Mb03:56
mdzyes, this is a problem we must reconcile for final03:56
mdzwell, if it turns out to be a problem03:57
mdzit's definitely too much for dialup users, but dialup users aren't online yet03:57
lamontis that just because the CD has older bits, or is it pacakges that are just missing from the CD?03:58
=== Burgundavia [~Burgundav@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mvoI think I'm getting close, looks pretty good so far03:58
mdzlamont: it's beacuse they're missing04:01
mdzand they're missing because they don't fit04:01
lamontah, OK./04:01
lamontppc building on all 3 buildd's, for better chances of success04:02
elmolamont: eh - are the SIGILLs getting worse or are you just being melodramatic?04:02
mvodoes it install all the english support too? even if I selected german? I got myspell-en-us and openoffice-*-en-gb and stuff04:03
lamontelmo: -25.1 died with a sigill, so I launched it everywhere (build/REDO is your friend...)04:03
lamontof course, the ones that didn't actually _take_ it will fail to upload, but if the one that got it fails, then there are 2 more chances of success, with only minor evil on the other end04:04
=== minghua [~minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
lamontelmo: and given the impending deadline, I don't want to wait for a SIGILL to start it again...04:06
lamontdamn thing takes too long to build as it is..04:06
mvoshould it try to load network docbook dtds from oasis-open.org?04:07
dholbachhope you all find some sleep soon04:07
dholbachi'm off to bed now04:07
mvo(in register documentation)?04:08
lamontmvo: we at least got it to quit loading from there during _BUILDS_04:08
mvoand my default theme seems to be human04:10
mvobut now I'm really really tired :) I need some sleep04:10
=== ogra too...
mvolamont, mdz: should I report bugs about "trying to fetch external dtds in register documentation and default theme is still human" ? 04:12
lamontdoes the server install load anything more than ubunut-base?04:12
lamontmvo: certainly04:12
jdubmvo: yes tothe first one04:12
jdubmvo: what's with the second?04:12
mvojdub: after a fresh install my theme was human04:12
jdubthat's correct04:13
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mvojdub: ah, ok. good then :)04:14
lamontmvo: I got the splash screen after an upgrade..04:14
mvolamont: splash screen?04:16
mvoI got that too on the install 04:16
mvook, going to sleep now04:17
zenwhengood luck and good night guys. 04:24
tsengmako: great, thanks04:26
zulhmm...there is ata_dma_blacklist now04:29
lamontzul: where?04:30
tsenghi zul 04:30
zulits in 2.6.11 http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/2/6/804:30
zulhey tseng 04:30
lamontso what exactly happens in the 'Configuring apt' step?04:32
jbaileymdz: There?04:33
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BenoniWhat's the difference between "normal" and "udeb" packages?04:38
jdubudeb packages are microdebs04:38
jbaileyBenoni: udeb packages don't have to follow the usual packaging policy - they're intentionally designed for use in the installer.04:38
jdubthey're very tiny, generally only used in the installer04:39
jbaileySo they're usually smaller, have no docs, etc...04:39
BenoniOK, got it.  Thanks guys.04:39
zulim thinking of heading to bed...night all04:43
jbaileyzul: g'night chuck.04:43
zulnight jbailey 04:44
wasabihah i just found something crazy04:47
wasabiThe process to migrate packages from Debian to Ubuntu, alters the control file, no?04:47
wasabiTo stuff them in universe/ or multiverse/ right?04:48
wasabiOr is that done with an override or something?04:48
wasabiHmm, actually this is very odd. =/04:49
elmowasabi: no that's overridden centrally04:49
wasabi(working with subversion, which regenerates debian/control at build time)04:49
elmoautomated syncs maintain the Section: entry from the original debian/control04:49
wasabidoes it recompile the package on Ubuntu's buildds?04:50
wasabiOr just copy over the .debs?04:50
elmowe only ever do source uploads04:50
wasabiWell that makes little sense.04:50
elmoit makes a heck of a lot of sense04:50
wasabiOh I see. Grr.04:51
wasabiNaw, this Subversion package is giving me fits.04:51
wasabiBecause of it's regeneration of control.04:51
wasabiIt creates Build-Deps... at build time.04:51
mdzjbailey: yes04:52
jbaileymdz: See #u-kernel...04:52
mdzoh no :-/04:53
elmoargh more #*u* channels04:53
wasabielmo, how often are they updated?04:53
elmowasabi: which updated?04:54
mdzjbailey: so in fact we have no indication of a regression in 144004:54
wasabiOh I think I get it. This subversion package was probably uploaded directly to main.04:54
wasabiSo it just needs an update04:54
wasabinobody put -ubuntu at the end of the version, so it's confusing the hell out of me.04:54
elmosubversion | 1.1.1-2ubuntu3 |         hoary | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc04:55
elmoerr, that?04:55
wasabiYeah. It's 1.1.3 in Debian now.04:55
wasabiI am disoriented. =(04:55
jbaileymdz: Right.  I have scd0/sr0 on that system.04:55
wasabielmo, forget everything I said. I am confused. =)04:56
jbaileymdz: The two SATA systems have a null modem cable between them, I log in to both when I'm doing kernel upgrades so I can watch the serial console.04:56
mdzjbailey: it's too late now; we'll have to live with 1440 for preview04:57
=== lamont primes the mirror on his to-be co-lo'ed machine
mdzlamont: how are the 25.2 builds going?04:59
jbaileymdz: Ah, did you revert to -24?04:59
mdzjbailey: no, we reverted the remainder of the patch from #144005:00
elmoi386 just finished05:00
jbaileyAh shit, sorry about that.  *sigh*05:00
mdzI was unable to get any confirmation from anyone else with an SATA system regarding 144005:01
mdzso all we had to go on was your example05:01
elmoamd64 is installed05:01
jbaileyI'm surprised at how rare of a configuration it is.05:01
mdzpiix doesn't seem to be as popular as it once was05:01
lamontelmo: and uploaded05:02
elmoyeah, I haven't seen any since I left my old job - but there, I had nothing but PIIX05:02
mdzso another ~2 hours for powerpc05:03
lamontadare is 4/6+ done05:04
mdzlamont: will you kick off the d-i builds as the kernels are installed?05:06
lamontamd64 d-i launched05:07
m_ttheweta for testable builds is ~2h (right now is 2008 UTC-8)05:08
mdzETA for testable i386 CDs is <1 hour05:09
=== m_tthew nods
m_tthewgood timing05:09
=== lamont waits for cron.daily to give i386 some lvoe
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elmoyou should be good, judging by the lights on jackass05:14
lamontnope. i386 didn't make the last cron.daily run...05:17
lamontand is still waiting05:17
lamontdi running on i38605:20
lamontthanks elmo05:21
=== lamont discovers the ssl-cert package
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schweeblamont: whoa neat05:26
lamontpostfix-tls's cert just got much easer. :-)05:27
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schweebwonder if that's what courier-imap uses to create its cert05:27
BenoniI have a tricky packaging question for you folks.05:46
BenoniI have a non-standard build process that generates some extra debug-related information.05:46
BenoniOn Fedora, there's a convention that filenames in debug info should be rewritten to look for source under "/usr/src/debug/package-x.y.z" instead of wherever your source tree really was a build time.05:47
BenoniDoes Ubuntu have a similar convention?  Should I be rewriting source paths in some similar way?05:47
jbaileyBenoni: No, gdb can generally handle whatever you give it, and has search statements otherwise.05:48
Benonijbailey: OK, so wherever the build tree happened to be on the buildd box, that's what ships out in the debug information?05:48
jbaileyBenoni: Yeah.  In practice I don't think I've ever even noticed it though.  Usually if I have a source tree handy I've always just told gdb where to find the info.05:50
BenoniOK, cool.  Well, it's easy enough to just disable this extra rewrite functonality in my tools.05:50
BenoniThanks for the info.05:50
=== Benoni tips his hat to jbailey.
jdubyo Benoni 05:52
jdubwas off getting lunch, glad you got help here :)05:52
BenoniHey, jdub.05:52
jbaileyjdub: He had to settle for the other Jeff. ;)05:52
Benonijbailey gets a gold star for helping strangers with weird questions.05:52
BenoniOr weirdos with strange questions.05:53
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elmolamont: ?05:56
elmono i386 d-i yet?05:56
=== lamont beats on w-b a little. sigh
lamontuploaded now05:59
lamontwith seconds to spare - thanks05:59
lamontwhen cron.daily runs on top of a d-i daily build, sick things happen06:00
elmodude seconds to spare suck when it's byhand :p06:01
lamontOTOH, adare as 5/6 kernels built06:02
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lamontmorning fabbione06:18
fabbionei can see that it wasn't enough the PATA06:18
fabbionewhat was the problem with ATAPI?06:18
lamontelmo: I assume the byhand is done for i386?06:19
lamontfabbione: so -25.1 was, um, worse06:19
lamontso -25.2 is the new plan.06:19
lamont== 25.1 with the rest of the patch gone06:19
lamontmdz: amd64/ia64 can build images if you're so inclined...06:20
fabbioneworste in what sense?06:20
lamontmdz: and you'll want new livecd rootfs'es as well, I assume06:20
lamontproblem still existed for at least jbailey's machine (WTH??), and etc, etc,06:20
lamontsee scrollback06:20
lamontthis channel, for the most part06:20
fabbionei don't keep irc scrollback.. sorry06:21
fabbionebut ok06:21
fabbionei will dig the logs later06:21
lamontaround 2600 UTC :)06:21
fabbioneso we get 1440 back06:22
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lamontbasically, < -25 was known b0rkage (see #1440).  -25 had big issues, -25.1 didn't seem to fix #1440, but was yet another set of new and therefore scary code if it didn't fix #1440, so we decided to codify the regression on #144006:22
lamontdeclared to be "not a preview-stopper, but is a release-showstopper:"06:23
lamontwell, release critical anyway06:23
fabbionemake sense06:23
fabbioneis it already in cd images?06:24
lamontbuilt on i386,amd64; building on ppc06:25
lamontd-i upload in the archive for i386,amd64.06:25
lamontmdz is go for CD build06:25
fabbioneroger that06:25
lamontbut ENOMDZ recently....06:25
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lamontppc is building the .o's for kernel #6/6 - then come the modules, of course.06:26
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fabbionewe should hardcode the buildd names or something in debian/rules to enable CONCURRENT_JOBS06:29
fabbioneso it can fork on the buildd06:29
fabbioneor check for /CurrentlyBuilding06:29
fabbioneand take appropriate actions06:29
fabbionethat would speed up hell of a lot06:29
fabbionelamont: did you merge 25.2 in baz?06:30
fabbionei guess not06:31
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lamontnot yet.06:34
lamontit's on my list06:34
lamonttotal difference is to drop enable_....-2 from 00list-25.206:34
fabbioneok if you don't get around it before you crash, i will do it immediatly after preview06:34
fabbionei need to sync at least pre2606:35
lamontand btw, please change your umask to 002 on rookery06:35
lamont(thom covered for you...)06:35
fabbioneah right06:35
=== fabbione does
lamontmainline has 25.1, wasn't sure what the state of --pre26 was, and if you had done that merge or not.06:36
fabbioneno i didn't06:36
fabbionei did commit only the bits i had local06:36
lamontok.  if you don't beat me to it, I'll do the merge once I wake up again06:36
fabbioneno.. done nothing06:42
fabbionethat was supposed to go in daily report :-)06:42
jdubfabbione: bold is certainly true, but i think you might mean bald? :)06:46
fabbioneisn't bold = without any hair on the head?06:46
jdubthat's bald06:47
fabbionethat is actually what i am becoming.. but naturally06:47
jdubbold is like courageous06:47
fabbioneah ok06:47
jdubboth are correct ;)06:47
fabbionethan i meant BALD!06:47
m_tthewbaldness increases the bandwidth of the brain06:51
fabbionedoko: i can confirm that gcc-4 requires cairo 0.3.0-1 to build06:59
fabbionedoko: at least to pass the point where it was failing 2 days ago06:59
fabbioneso it might be a good idea to bump the build-dep06:59
fabbionebut please don't upload just for it :-)06:59
lamontlooks like maybe a ppc kernel in about 30 minutes07:04
lamontyeah, just in time to miss cron.daily. :-(07:05
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fabbionei will start merging 25.1 and 25.2 in pre2607:06
fabbioneso i can keep going07:07
fabbioneor do you prefer to do it in another way?07:07
fabbionelike branching 25.1 and let baz handling the merge?07:07
lamont25.1 is already on mainline (and kernel-debian--mainline-2,6,10-25--0--patch-1)07:07
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lamontif you just check the 25.2 diff in on mainline, and then merge from mainline to --pre26, you'll be there07:08
fabbionei will need to figure how to do that :-)07:08
lamontof course, when you check -25.2 into mainline, you want to branch  kernel-debian--mainline-2,6,10-25,2--0 as well07:08
lamontstart with a checkout of kernel-debian--mainline--2.6.1007:09
lamontapply the chagnges for -25.207:09
lamontbaz commit07:09
lamontbaz branch  kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/kernel-debian--mainline--2.6.10 kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/kernel-debian--mainline-2,6,10-25,1--007:10
=== fabbione does
lamontbaz switch kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/kernel-debian--pre26--2.6.1007:10
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lamontbaz merge kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/kernel-debian--mainline--2.6.1007:10
lamontclean up debian/changelog from the merge, and commit07:11
lamontwell, with a baz resolved --all in the middle of that last line...07:11
mdzfabbione: morning07:12
mdzon which architectures are we ready for CD builds?07:12
fabbionehey mdz07:12
lamonti386, amd6407:12
lamontppc needs about another 30 min  or so07:12
=== lamont crosses digits
fabbioneppc is teh sux :)07:13
zwolspeaking of CDs, a question07:13
zwolthe CD has emacs on it07:13
zwolthe CD has lots of cool python stuff on it07:13
mdzI had a short nap so I can stay up for a bit07:13
zwolwhy does the CD not have the emacs mode for editing python on it?07:13
mdzi386 and amd64 CDs building07:13
fabbionei386 would be fine for testing07:14
mdzzwol: it does, "the" emacs mode for python comes with emacs07:14
fabbionesince it was the one really affected by the problem07:14
zwolmdz: uh, no it doesn't.  you have to install the python-mode package, which is in main but not on the CD.07:15
zwol(let me be specific: I am referring to emacs21, not xemacs.07:15
elmowe only support emacs21 anyways07:15
fabbionemorning elmo07:16
zwolyeah, i didn't remember seeing xemacs on the cd07:16
elmobut zwol's right - we should probably promote it to ship, it's only like 46k07:16
elmo(it == python-mode)07:16
elmofabbione: meh07:16
=== fabbione hugs elmo
fabbioneelmo: was it good to sleep on the DC floor ?07:16
zwolelmo: i'd be much obliged.  editing python in emacs without the major mode for it is all kinds of no fun.07:17
elmofabbione: they're a classy DC, they have sofas and stuff07:17
fabbioneelmo: ah...07:17
mdzemacs is only on the CD because it's relatively large07:17
fabbionethat rocks07:17
mdzas a convenience so you don't have to download it07:17
elmozwol: sorry, I was just agreeing with you - that doesn't mean it'll actually happen ;)07:17
mdzKamion made some magic to allow install CD builds without jigdo, but I haven't investigated that yet07:18
lamontmodule build07:18
=== lamont finds himself staring at some debug output, needing to understand when newaliases would exit with no output, and not create /etc/aliases.db
zwoli don't personally care all that much since i have no plans to install ubuntu again in the near future, but i do think it would be nice.07:19
mdzzwol: did you install on a machine which is not connected to the Internet?07:20
zwolmdz: yes, i installed on a laptop while sitting in a cafe, far away from all sources of connectivity.07:21
zwolit was only a problem till I got home, but i did tear my hair out for a little while.07:21
Treenakslamont: wrong map type?07:22
zwoli'm mainly suggesting it because it seems consistent with the general policy of putting lots of python goodness on the CD.07:22
mdzthe python goodness on the CD is there because it's installed by default07:23
lamontTreenaks: very last thing in the postinst.  during debootsrap07:23
mdzwe might be able to squeeze python-mode because it's tiny, but then again, it's also possible that emacs will get pushed off the CD in favour of more language support07:24
schweeblamont: hrm, have you tried postalias directly?07:24
lamontschweeb: shouldn't matter07:24
schweebyea, wouldn't think so07:24
mdzARGH it's building source CDs07:24
=== lamont will launch a shell from postinst. :-)
elmomdz: eww07:25
elmooh dear god07:27
elmo(system) cron.daily time is a REALLY bad time to be in the data centre on little sleep07:27
elmoI have 300 hard drive lights flashing at me manically - I feel like I'm having a semi-permanent fit or something07:27
lamontelmo: lol07:28
=== m_tthew laughs
srbakerhow do i turn off screen locking when i close my laptop lid07:29
lifelesselmo: lol - want to /become/ epileptic ?07:29
zwoledit /etc/acpi/lid.sh?07:29
schweebsrbaker: /etc/default/acpi-support07:31
schweebi believe07:31
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srbakerlid.sh is what she was looking for07:33
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mdzi386 and amd64 install CDs are ready07:42
mdzfabbione: ^^07:42
fabbionei can test only i38607:42
fabbioneclient: nothing to do: perhaps you need to specify some filenames or the --recursive option?07:42
fabbioneok rsyncing now07:42
mdzwell, they're built and syncing to the mirrors07:42
fabbioneit was still copying to archive i guess07:42
mdzcould be a short time before they're available07:42
fabbionefetching now07:43
mdzlamont: did ppc miss cron.daily?07:43
lamontMar 10 06:44:43 buildd-mail: Moved linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-25.2 to upload-hoary07:46
lamontMar 10 06:45:31 buildd-uploader: 1 jobs to upload in upload-hoary: linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-25.2_powerpc.changes07:46
lamontMar 10 06:45:40 buildd-uploader: dupload successful.07:46
lamontsorry - I was 45 seconds slow there.07:46
lamontit's waiting for the _NEXT_ cron.daily07:46
fabbionemdz: burning now07:50
fabbioneit will take a little while07:50
mdzpitti should be here soon to build new langpacks07:55
mdzbut we don't actually need those in order to release preview07:56
fabbionearen't they borked?07:56
m_tthewi386 install burning07:56
mdzfabbione: they're borked for upgrades, not for new installs07:57
fabbioneah ok07:57
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pittiHi folks08:03
pittiMr. Langpack breaker greets you08:03
pittimdz: still here?08:04
mdzpitti: yes08:04
mdzpitti: hello my langpack breaking friend08:05
pittimdz: mvo phoned me08:05
mdzpitti: I sent you email also08:05
pittimdz: sorry, was offline yesterday night08:05
Mithrandirelmo: pong08:05
lamontpitti: btw, null component name in /CurrentlyBuilding is fatal.08:05
pittimdz: I almost feared that we must ship an empty update package :-(08:06
pittimdz: that means we can't ship update packages until this dpkg bug is solved?08:06
mdzpitti: correct, see #740108:06
pittiah, imported to our bz now..08:07
danielsmdz: ok, thanks08:07
mdzelmo: you took care of the powerpc d-i upload already?08:08
danielssvenl: yes, but how do you detect a pegasos, exactly?  note that I'm still very, very uncomfortable with this hack.08:08
pittimdz: but why a versioned pre-depends wouldn't work?08:08
pittilamont: what do you mean my fatal? does it cause FTBFS?08:09
mdzpitti: oh, I think it might, now that you changed the package layout08:09
pittimdz: oh, no, now I see why it doesn't work08:10
mdzpitti: I was thinking it would be impossible because you would need to update the existing package to increment the version, which would defeat the point08:10
mdzoh, right, still won't work08:10
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pittiright, the error msg was about updating the -base package while an older -update package is still installed08:11
lamontpitti: yes08:11
lamontmdz: d-i build launched on ross08:11
lamontmdz: you want livecd rootfses yes?08:11
BenoniWhere would I find a list of section names suitable for use in the "Section:" field of "debian/control" files?08:11
pittilamont: this is actually a feature, you enabled it with invalid_currentlybuilding = fail08:11
lamontno. that's not in the file08:11
pitti    readctrl "/CurrentlyBuilding" "Component"08:12
pitti    if [ -z "$RET" ] ; then08:12
pitti        echo "pkgstriptranslations: inconsistent /CurrentlyBuilding file, Component: value is empty" >&208:12
pitti        [ "$ignore_invalid_cb" ]  || exit 108:12
pitti    fi08:12
lamontgrep invalid build-hoary/chroot-hoary/etc/pkgstriptranslations.conf08:12
lamontbuildd@adare:~ $ 08:12
mdzlamont: yes, please08:12
pittilamont: oh sorry, the default is "fail", not "ignore". my bad08:12
mdzpitti: so since this problem does not affect new installs, it might be better to wait until we have built the final preview images08:13
pittilamont: does it actually do any harm?08:13
lamontpkgstriptranslations: inconsistent /CurrentlyBuilding file, Component: value is empty08:13
lamontdh_builddeb: command returned error code 25608:13
lamontthat'd be harm.08:13
pittimdz: you mean, build new langpacks after the preview?08:15
mdzpitti: yes08:15
pittimdz: this would still leave some upgraders from array affected08:15
pittihowever, interesting that this was never reported so far08:15
mdzpitti: yes, but they have been affected for some time already, a few hours shouldn't make much difference08:15
pittiwe had several langpack updates in the past08:15
mdzit is pure luck which package is unpacked first08:16
pittimdz: okay, fine08:16
pittilamont: why would it be harm? is the Component field empty on purpose sometimes?08:17
lamontif I stop the buildd and restart it, sbuild looses that information08:17
lamontwhich is how I discovered that it's fatal...08:17
fabbionelamont: that's an error in buildd08:18
fabbionei figured that buildd doesn't update the Component when you stop/start08:18
lamontfabbione: no, it's a design error in how we implemented the pkg striptranslations08:18
pittilamont: okay, so what do you prefer? changing the logic not to fail (i. e. invalidcurrentlybuilding defaults to "ignore")08:18
lamontfabbione: buildd isn't even _INVOLVED_ when you stop/start08:18
pittilamont: or changing the conffile to explicitly set it to ignore?08:18
lamontpitti: don't worry about it08:19
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fabbionelamont: well the part of sbuild of whatever that is supposed to write the Component: leaves it blank if you stop/start08:19
lamontright.  because it doesn't record that information in build/REDO when it stops, so it can't recover it08:19
lamontand I'm not going to worry about it tonight - about to fall over08:20
fabbionelamont: good night08:20
pittimdz: reagarding the -home / issue, shall I fix it for preview or after?08:20
pittilamont: night08:20
mdzpitti: after08:21
fabbionebad burn08:21
lamontoh, I don't get to fall over yet, I'm just ready to08:22
mdzpitti: well...08:22
mdzpitti: how fast can you have packages ready?08:22
pittimdz: hoary's adduser does not do this anyway...08:22
mdzpitti: ok, definitely wait then08:23
pittimdz: building and uploading them takes 10 minutes08:23
pittimdz: I'm more concerned about _which_ directory they should actually get08:23
pittimdz: /var/cache/scratchdir ...08:23
pittimdz: chown'ing /tmp or any other normal directory would be bad, too08:23
mdzpitti: I think the adduser defaults are fine08:24
pittimdz: on the box you experienced this, did it happen to be a woody upgrade or so?08:24
pittimdz: the warty version does not chown either08:24
mdzpitti: no, it was a debootstrapped warty, I believe08:24
pittihmm, odd08:24
mdzcan everyone here check the ownership of the root directory on their Ubuntu systems and see if it's hosed?08:24
pittimdz: already checked my systems, all are ok08:25
fabbionemdz: ???08:25
pittils -ld /08:25
mdzfabbione: there is a potential problem with hpoj and cupsys where the ownership of / is changed08:25
mdzpitti: bug#?08:25
fabbionedrwxr-xr-x  25 root root 1024 2005-03-10 08:24 /08:25
pittimdz: sudo adduser --system --ingroup lpadmin foobar08:27
pittimdz: -> then I get /home/foobar created08:27
pittimdz: I really need --no-create-home 08:28
mdzpitti: oh, interesting08:28
mdz--no-create-home without --home seems fine08:28
mdzlooking at /etc/passwd, that seems to be what syslog, ntp, etc. do08:29
pittimdz: then the home will still be /home/foobar, but it cannot chown it because it doesn' exist08:29
pittinice hack :-)08:29
pittimdz: okay, your call, can upload any time08:30
mdzpitti: after preview08:31
mdzsince it seems that very few people actually experience the bug08:31
mdzand we will need to have postinst fix the root directory anyway08:31
pitti        if dpkg --compare-versions "$2" lt-nl "1.1.23-1ubuntu10"; then08:36
pitti            chown 0:0 /08:36
pitti        fi08:36
=== lamont had a / owned by hpoj
lamontdrwxr-xr-x  25 hpojlp lp 4096 2005-03-05 09:12 /08:37
lamontpitti: and while you're in hpoj... has it's init.d been lsb-ized yet?08:37
pittilamont: no yet, can do this if I'm at it08:38
lamontthat'd make one less upload for me, fixing them.08:38
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mdzhas the powerpc upload arrived too late for elmo?08:45
mdzit looks like we may have lost him08:45
mdzfabbione: how is the test going?08:46
fabbionemdz: i am having some problems to burn the CD08:46
fabbioneeither these medias are the suck08:46
fabbioneor my dvd burner just died08:46
mdzpowerpc byhanded08:46
m_tthewthe i386 install here is in aptitude, grinding away at the HD08:48
fabbioneit seems a frigging problem with linux...08:49
lamontmdz: you tried burning slowly?08:49
fabbionelamont: i can't go slower than x208:49
fabbioneit doesn't even blank the disk now08:49
fabbioneat least not under linux08:49
lamonti386 cloop done08:49
lamont(and kubuntu building there)08:50
mdzm_tthew: 06c9fb5aa557a916c4e91cc8f18cbae8  hoary-install-i386.iso ?08:50
m_tthewpretty sure, lemme dbl-check08:50
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m_tthew06c9fb5aa557a916c4e91cc8f18cbae8  hoary-install-i386.iso08:51
lamontamd64 compressing08:51
lamontdon't even ask about ppc08:51
=== m_tthew asks about ppc
pittilamont: erm, hpoj's init script is perl, hard to use /lib/lsb/init-functions..08:52
lamontoh, lovely08:52
=== mdz gags
lamontuse /lib/lsb/init-functions.pl :-)08:52
=== T-None sends lamont to bed :)
pittioh, cool08:52
lamontpitti: I don't think it exists08:52
Mithrandiryou might need to _write_ /lib/lsb/init-functions.pl first, though08:52
lamontso you'll need to write it. :-)08:52
=== Mithrandir ^5s lamont
=== lamont ^5s Mithrandir
pittiit's not a standard init script, it's a huuge program that includes installer, configurator, and a coffe machine08:53
Mithrandirdaniels: it's such a evil init script, I'm not sure you want to rewrite it in shell, iirc.08:53
mdzyeah, it's this crazy script that upstream ships08:53
mdzand it's used as the init script08:53
lamontperl: for when you're all out of syrup of ipecac08:53
Mithrandirpitti: you forgot the space shuttle launchpad.08:53
mdzprobably it should be moved into /usr/sbin and wrapped by a real init script08:54
pittioh, right08:54
lamontsee - mdz _is_ a party pooper. :-)08:54
T-Noneyou guys are sick in your heads ;)08:56
lamontT-None: see, I _told_ you it's a fun group08:56
mdzhas anyone else noticed that ubuntu in a mirror is "utnudu"?08:58
T-Nonelamont: hehe ;)08:58
mdzor only those of us who are lacking sleep?08:58
lamontmdz: lol08:58
pittimdz: this sounds even less comprehensible 08:58
mdzI like words which are perfectly formed in the mirror, and our logo font has that property08:58
T-NoneMithrandir: i'm letting the box up for whenever you can use it, btw :)08:58
pittimdz: the "t" is wrong, though :-)08:58
lamontah, I see that elmo did grab ubunut.com08:59
mdzonly a bit08:59
mdzit is stylized :-)08:59
MithrandirT-None: thanks.08:59
lamontamd64 is done08:59
lamontppc should _start_ in about 5-10 minutes08:59
T-Nonelamont: btw, do you *ever* sleep? :)08:59
lamontT-None: on occasion09:00
=== T-None thinks lamont is some kind of alien that doesn't need to sleep :)
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MithrandirT-None: shhh!  Don't make him feel unwelcome.09:03
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dilingerpitti: hey, i don't suppose you know anything about http://linux.bkbits.net:8080/linux-2.6/cset@41fbf0fcleNsr1YP92sb8eg7m1w90A  ?09:04
pittiHi amu09:04
=== T-None is already quite late, runs away to work, bbi ~10h
pittidilinger: no, indeed not. Do you? :-)09:04
pittidilinger: security relevant?09:05
dilingerno, i just noticed it.  not sure if it depends on 41fbef32tPWgju_Vydfojr8LR1ZnEQ, and whether it's something that a user could ever trigger09:05
pittifabbione: ^ do you think we have 'nuff exploits to try? :-)09:07
danielsjdub: dbus 0.23.3 (.3 just fixes a few horrific memory leaks in the mono stuff, really) for hoary.  i'd like to do it.09:09
fabbionepitti: ehhehe probably we do :-)09:09
amuhey pitti, i found libboost, remember we're looking for it, a while ago   09:11
mdzwaiting for d-i stuff to sync up, then I'm going to build a full set of images09:11
fabbionepitti: too bad the context is now09:11
fabbionepitti: we have not enough time to work on it09:11
mdzwith jigdo and all09:11
mdzwhich should hopefully be a real candidate09:11
pittifabbione: no, just found the announcement on full-disclosure09:12
mdzlamont: ETA for livefs builds x3?09:12
fabbionearch_commit: unable to acquire revision lock (internal error in archive-pfs.c(pfs_lock_revision))09:12
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=== mdz workraves
fabbionehow do i fix that crap???09:13
pittifabbione: you need to fix the ++revision-lock/+contents dir in the latest patch09:14
lamont2 done.09:14
lamontppc will be starting soon09:14
fabbionepitti: how and where?09:14
pittifabbione: and remove any ++revision-lock-held-foo crap in the directory which holds all the patches09:14
pittifabbione: which is the latest committed patch?09:14
fabbione7 probably09:14
=== fabbione starts to time wasted in fixing baz
pittifabbione: then go into .../patch-7/09:15
lamontmdz: I was afraid to kill the one that launched at 0615 until it finished.09:15
lamontppc has started.09:15
pittifabbione: is the repo on a server I have access to?09:15
lamontand now that cron.daily and a kernel build aren't competing with the livecdfs build, it should finish in much < 2 hours... :=(09:16
pittifabbione: you need to rm -r ++revision-lock-held--patch-7--fabbione@canonical.com--429de7a23f25009:16
pittifabbione: and mkdir -p patch-7/++revision-lock/+contents09:17
fabbioneTHIS IS THE SUX09:17
pittifabbione: did you happen to abort a commit?09:18
fabbionepitti: yes09:18
fabbioneit is still the sucks09:18
pittifabbione: okay, seems to have worked09:18
pittifabbione: beat up the baz guys... :-)09:19
lamontbaz lock-revison -b <version-spec>09:19
fabbioneoh i will09:19
lamontdon't remove files in the archive09:19
pittilamont: this command almost never works for me...09:19
lamontworks for me09:19
=== pitti always tried and had to fix it manually in the end
lamontfabbione: fwiw, those were left over in mainline as well, and those were the files that I had to have thom fix for me.09:20
lamontyou aren't doing something stupid like killing commits in the middle of the log edit are you?09:20
fabbionelamont: i did kill the commit at gpg sign09:20
fabbionei never edit the commit log. i always use -s'09:20
lamontyeah - that case is the trivial lock-revision -b will fix it case.09:21
fabbioneit just shouldn't happen09:21
lamontok.  well, that'd be a #arch thing09:22
fabbioneyes i know09:22
lamontmdz: ppc is in debootstrap...09:23
lamontonce http://adare.buildd/~buildd/livecd/ubuntu/latest/livecd.ubuntu.manifest exists, the image is golden09:23
lamonthrm.. guess I should stay up until it's done.09:24
=== lamont decides that since he's pretty useless for most stuff anyway, maybe now is a good time to kill a little bit attacking level 234
m_tthewi386 install successful and smooth like butter09:26
m_tthewsome sort of space jellyfish graces the desktop09:26
fabbionei am afraid my dvd burner is dead09:28
=== fabbione sighs
svenldaniels: if you are uncofortable with the hack, then port the real solution from the debian X radeon driver.09:30
svenldaniels: and the pegasos detection i told you how to do it in the bug report.09:31
svenldaniels: you only need to look for "machine         : CHRP Pegasos" in /proc/cpuinfo.09:31
=== Keybuk [~scott@host217-37-231-22.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
svenldaniels: if [ "`grep 'machine.*CHRP Pegasos' /proc/cpuinfo`" ] ; then echo PEGASOS; else echo not pegasos; fi09:34
svenldaniels: or a variation thereof.09:34
svenldaniels: damn, www.ubuntu.org seems unreachable, too bad bugzilla has not propper email bug-reporting enabled.09:37
mdznew install CDs are up, x309:38
mdzhmm, not yet09:38
svenldaniels: just get the bustype hack in, and i will get you the xresprobe fix. yours is the less work, and probably a 5 minutes fix.09:38
mdzsilly source CDs09:38
mdzm_tthew: thanks09:39
m_tthewnp, I'll give the new build a spin too, soon as it's there to rsync09:40
lamontppc is in lang-pack/locale09:40
mdzI think we might need to do one after this, unfortunately09:42
mdzif we want proper volume labels09:43
mdzI'll check with Kamion when he gets up09:43
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mdzsvenl: www.ubuntu.org is not our website09:45
svenlyeah, i meant .com, but i guess it was just the firewall here playing tricks.09:46
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svenlmdz: still having no email interface to the BTS sucks bigtime, which is my main grip against bugzilla.09:46
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mdzsvenl: we aren't going to put much more work into making bugzilla better, since we'll be moving to malone09:47
hiweedhey all09:47
mdzfor which a proper email interface is planned09:47
svenlBTW, you have a gparted package, right, but gparted is not in debian yet, and the package is a different one from the gparted package in debian svn repo ?09:47
svenlmdz: ah, cool.09:47
hiweedwhere can I get the Ubuntu's Debian-Installer source codes? it has some bugs and I wanna fix them.09:47
Treenakshiweed: apt-get source debian-installer ?09:48
mdzhiweed: all the source code is in the package archive; we don't have a revision control repository for it09:48
hiweedTreenaks: thanks. is there any svn or cvs?09:48
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hiweedmdz: okay thanks09:48
mdzhiweed: you can send patches to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com09:49
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fabbionewhos is an awk expert?09:56
=== lamont is no expert, but has been known to do a thing from time to time...
lamontelmo maintains gawk...09:57
lamontor was that mawk.09:58
fabbionelamont: debian/make-substvars 09:58
mdzfabbione: don't ask to ask ;-)09:58
fabbionelamont: we need find a way to replace that thingy09:58
mdzthis is insane, the CD build process spends like 10 minutes making CDs, and 40 minutes making .jigdo files09:58
mdzwhich no one uses09:58
fabbionei am afraid my burner is dead09:58
mdzfabbione: bad timing :-(09:59
fabbionemdz: i have another one...09:59
fabbioneit will just take time to change them09:59
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lamontfabbione: shouldn't be too bad.. what needs to change in it?  or does it just annoy you?09:59
fabbionelamont: let's move to -kernel10:00
lamontpartimage.  woot10:00
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lowhi there10:02
lowi've tested 20050309.1 a64 iso10:02
lowlilo and grub can't be installed but i suppose it's a known bug10:03
lamontinstall fine here...10:03
mdzlamont: ETA?10:03
lowhaving already a grub installed, i've tried to boot the thing anyway10:03
lowcrashes at unable to mount VFS, unknown device...(using xfs)10:04
lamontmdz: cp, compress, and done10:04
lowlamont, hmmm forgor to tell i use sata (sata_sis), is there an initrd or ?10:04
mdzlamont: how long does that bit take usually?10:04
mdzpitti: have you tried to reproduce #6749?10:06
mdznew install ISOs are being md5summed10:06
lamontmdz: haven't really paid _that_ much attention.10:06
lamontit's running along at ~2MB/sec10:06
lamonton 2GB ==> 10 minutes, give or take10:07
lamontreally ballpark figures10:07
mdzok, thanks10:07
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fabbioneit's the DVD burner10:08
lamontover 16K blocks done10:08
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lamont(and screaming along at much closer to 6MB/sec)10:08
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lamont25K of 32K blocks compressed10:09
lamontat the end there's a small amount more cp madness10:09
mdzfortunately the live iso build is _way_ faster10:09
mdzno source madness and no jigdo madness10:09
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lamonti386 wins the compression competition at 24% vs 25 and 2510:12
lamontubuntu livecd build is a GO10:13
lamontfor future reference, runs about 1 hour on ppc, under good conditions10:14
lamontand in about 1 hour.  fwiw, those builds did ubuntu and kubuntu, so you could build kubuntu-live (if you wait another hour for ppc-kubuntu to finish..)10:15
lamontanything more before I go grab 4 hours sleep and then run the kids to school?10:15
lamontT-None: see, I do sleep. :-)10:16
=== lamont will sync images on his way home from school
mdzUbuntu 5.04 "Hoary Hedgehog" - Preview amd64 Binary-1 (20050310)10:16
mdzoh yay, Kamion did the .disk/info magic already10:16
=== mdz hugs Kamion
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mdzlamont: I think we're in reasonable shape, thanks10:17
m_tthewis there one more build for volume labels still?10:18
mdzm_tthew: nope10:18
lamontmdz: g'night then10:18
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mdzsabdfl: morning10:18
pittiHi sabdfl 10:18
sabdflmorning guys10:18
lamontmorning sabdfl 10:18
=== m_tthew waves
lamontnight sabdfl 10:18
sabdflmdz: how's it looking?10:18
fabbionemorning sabdfl 10:18
mdzsabdfl: install candidate is up, live candidate is building10:18
fabbioneburning now the install candidate10:19
sabdflmdz: canidate announced to -devel?10:19
mdzsabdfl: not yet, live build will be done in a moment and I'll announce together10:19
sabdflthen we have a good few hours testing before we announce10:19
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mdzthom: ping10:22
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mdzlive and install are both up10:23
sabdflKamion get a decent night's rest last night?10:24
mdzsabdfl: haven't seen him for 9 hours, so I hope so10:25
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fabbionewow.. found the DVD burner recepits10:28
fabbioneand it is still underwarranty10:28
=== pitti can't rsync two images in parallel
pittido we restrict the #rsyncs per IP?10:29
m_tthewpitti : it seems that way to me, too10:29
mdzpitti: yes10:30
=== m_tthew suddenly wishes his burner could rsync the media
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mdzlive-amd64: success10:40
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m_tthewi386 install burning10:42
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Keybuk"he advisory notes that this vulnerability "...pretty much destroys what PaX has always stood and been trusted for." So the author is taking his marbles and going home; PaX will be discontinued at the end of this month."10:45
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-love for getting involved | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryGoals | Kubuntu on #kubuntu-devel | preview release: 2005-03-10 1800UTC | please test the current daily (preview candidate)!
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pittiKeybuk: I think it won't come that far10:45
Keybukpitti: funny though :p10:45
pittiKeybuk: scary, rather10:46
Keybukwhy scary? all software has security flaws10:46
d3vic3can someone explain #7403 to me 10:46
KeybukI find it more scary that people really believe that there aren't any in things like PaX, etc.10:46
mdzd3vic3: we're working on the preview release right now; can you help by testing the candidate?10:46
Kamionmdz: ok, what's the CD situation?10:47
d3vic3mdz, yes, when will it be ready? 10:48
Kamionhm, so we seem to have d-i builds throughout, good10:50
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=== fabbione kicks his burning machine
mdzinstall-amd64 on stage 210:51
mdzKamion: /topic10:51
fabbionemdz: i should be able to test install in approx 15 minutes10:51
fabbionei just finished to solve all the burning issues10:51
mdzKamion: we have a full set of isos which should represent a reasonabe preview candidate10:51
Kamionmdz: what I mean is, you just did 'cron.daily' right?10:51
mdzKamion: and daily-live, yes10:51
Kamionmdz: for future reference, to avoid source builds and jigdo, put SPECIAL=1 in the environment10:52
mdzKamion: and I griped a lot about how long it takes now10:52
Kamionwith elmo pronunciation10:52
mdzKamion: I fiigured out SPECIAL=1 earlier10:52
mdzKamion: but since this was to be a real candidate, I figured we should have the jigdos10:52
Kamionyes, thom uses them at least10:52
mdzI didn't realize it turned off source, too, or I might have done it anyway10:52
Kamionand I've had a number of other users asking about them, so they are used :)10:52
fabbionegnome is a FTBFS due to wrong Build-Dep.. *sighs*10:53
abelliwhich burning, if one, is going to be "supported"?10:53
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fabbioneseb128 10:54
mdzpowerpc-live: success10:54
fabbionei was thinking about you10:54
mdzKamion: I was just griping because they take so long10:54
fabbioneseb128: gnome is a FTBFS due to wrong Build-Dep.. *sighs*10:54
seb128what gnome ?10:54
mdzKamion: down the road, I'd prefer to separate the ISO builds and jigdo into two phases, so we can add the jigdos later when we're happy with a build (or if we can do that already, learn me how ;-) )10:54
fabbioneseb128: libbonoboui_2.8.1-1ubuntu1: libgnome2-dev: Depends: libgnome2-0 (= 2.9.1-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed10:54
fabbioneseb128: but 2.10 is in the archive10:55
fabbioneseb128: and after that a chain of other packages10:55
fabbioneseb128: for similar reasons10:55
seb128$ apt-cache show libgnome2-dev10:55
seb128Depends: libgnome2-0 (= 2.10.0-0ubuntu1), liborbit2-dev, libbonobo2-dev (>= 2.6.0), libgconf2-dev (>= 2.7.92), libgnomevfs2-dev (>= 2.7.91-3), libglib2.0-dev (>= 2.4.0), libesd0-dev10:55
seb128that's a out of sync any/all10:55
fabbioneseb128: i noticed it because sparc was catching up10:55
seb128what arch is that ?10:55
fabbioneseb128: nope.. i have it in sync..10:55
fabbioneseb128: read above...10:56
fabbione(= 2.9.1-0ubuntu1)10:56
seb128libgnome2-dev: Depends: libgnome2-0 (= 2.9.1-0ubuntu1) 10:56
seb128is not possible10:56
seb128Package: libgnome2-dev10:56
seb128Architecture: any10:56
seb128Section: libdevel10:56
seb128Depends: libgnome2-0 (= ${Source-Version}),10:56
fabbionein the archive they are in sync10:56
Kamionmdz: the reason why we don't do that at the moment is because a successful jigdo run requires (or at least, may require) the exact same archive as was used for the ISO run10:56
seb128what's wrong with that ?10:56
Kamionmdz: building them at the same time has a much higher chance of actually working10:56
fabbioneseb128: weird10:56
seb128it's like that for ages10:57
seb128and works on debian and ubuntu for ages10:57
Kamionmdz: believe me, it irritates me too, but the answer is not breaking it, the answer is shifting to JTE10:57
seb128are you sure you are not lagging on libgnome on sparc ?10:57
mdzinstall-powerpc: on stage 110:58
fabbioneseb128: yup...10:58
Kamionmdz: which pushes most of the jigdo-generation logic into mkisofs, where it can be much more efficient; you save enormous amounts of md5summing that way10:58
KamionDebian are using that now, because with 11 arches and a billion CDs they hit the problem much harder10:58
Kamionfor us it's just an annoyance, for Debian it was a showstopper10:58
fabbioneseb128: http://sparc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-sparc/pool/main/libg/libgnome/10:58
seb128fabbione: apt-cache show libgnome2-dev | grep Depends ?10:59
seb128and apt-cache show libgnome2-dev | grep Version11:00
mdzinstall-amd64: success11:01
mdzwho else is testing?11:02
fabbioneseb128: it looks ok to me...11:02
fabbionei will figure that crap out later11:02
lowmdz, i've tried 20050309.1 and had some problems11:02
mdzlow: please try the current one11:02
seb128fabbione: k11:02
pittimdz: still downloading, when we can download only one image at one time, this lasts a while11:02
lowmdz, ok11:03
mdzpitti: why would it be faster if you could do more than one?11:03
lowmdz, 10.2 ?11:03
mdzI have always done them in series11:03
mdzlow: /current/11:03
=== seb128 downloading too
mdzthom: torrents would be good11:04
mdzKamion: can we get a TORRENTS flag to generate them as part of the build process?11:05
pittimdz: rsync port is slow for me (about 40 kB/s)11:05
mdz(the metafiles, that is)11:05
mdzthom is going to work on automating the seeding11:05
pittimdz: but my overall bandwith is about 200 kb/s11:05
mdzlive-i386: success11:06
mdzKamion: (live-i386 tested via USB)11:06
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seb128pitti: lucky you, I've 60k here :p11:08
fabbioneinstall-i386 with piix seems ok (it passed the critical point)11:09
Kamionmdz: torrents> maybe, need to rethink half of that anyway11:09
=== Kamion is rsyncing still
mdzKamion: RESUME is set correctly for me so far11:09
KamionI certainly want to have a separate script that builds them11:09
Kamionmdz: yeah, every RESUME test has been good for me so far, looks like that worked well11:09
mdzthe amd64 doesn't like to resume from swsusp, though11:09
Kamionmine neither11:10
mdzbut I forgive it since it's a desktop11:10
thommdz: do we have final images in place?11:10
Kamionthom: probably11:10
Kamionhere, how about I dump these images into releases.u.c/.pool/11:10
thomyeah, that'd be good11:11
=== thom jigdos ppc and amd64 quickly
Kamionwill take a while, it md5sums THE WORLD11:11
Kamionand the scripts are kind of, er, half there for doing that kind of thing11:11
Kamion$ publish-release daily 20050310.2 install poolonly preview11:13
Kamion[remove lots of shit] 11:13
Kamionor words to that effect11:13
Kamionand it's all going to have to change around post-preview anyway from what sabdfl said yesterday11:13
Kamionbut at least I have an idea how11:13
Kamionthom: oh, I have half the code for a torrent rsync target too, I'm just too wussy to try to apply it pre-preview11:14
=== YokoZar [~scott@d160-104-la-rue-2.ucdavis.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
kokeoh, hell I was going to test the preview but I don't have CD-R's here :(11:15
thomKamion: heh, heh11:15
YokoZarOk, somehow I managed to upgrade to Hoary, select xorg as my default xserver, and NOT have xserver-xorg installed.11:15
=== mirak [~mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-24-247.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
YokoZarThere has to be a missing dependency somewhere11:15
pittielmo: can we please temporarily increase the rsync-per-IP limit ?11:17
KamionYokoZar: install ubuntu-desktop?11:18
Kamionoh, heh, I don't notice any of this rsync limit stuff because I gave up ages ago and made my scripts do rsync-over-ssh - whoops11:18
=== Kamion pleads necessity
pittiKamion: you mean ssh to cdimage.ubuntu.com?11:19
Kamionto little, which is to cdimage.ubuntu.com as jackass is to archive.ubuntu.com11:20
Kamioni.e. no, but close enough :)11:20
mdzI've had to do that before11:20
mdzthough the rsync limits seem to be fairly reasonable now11:20
mdzor they're being used less11:21
YokoZarHmm, how did that not get selected...11:21
YokoZarIt let me set the xserver as xserver-xorg-dbg11:21
YokoZarWhich should probably depend on xserver-xorg11:21
Kamionheh, probably yeah11:21
mdzdaniels: any particular value in having xserver-xorg-dbg Provide: xserver-xorg, rather than just xserver?11:22
Kamiongah, new kernels make CD images take forever to rsync11:23
mdzinstall-powerpc: in scrollkeeper hell11:24
YokoZarHmm ubuntu-desktop won't install, giving me an error that mozilla-firefox-gnome-support depends on mozilla-firefox-1.0+dfsg.1-6ubuntu1 but 1.0-2ubuntu4-wart99 is to be installed11:24
mdzKamion: new kernels take forever to build, and forever to get onto the CDs, too11:24
mdzYokoZar: backports are buggy11:24
mdztheir use is not recommended11:25
YokoZarYeah that is probably it11:25
Kamionthey're entirely unQAed by us11:25
YokoZarBut I removed the backport repository11:25
mdzbut you still have packages from it installed11:25
=== fabbione starts to get pissed at any CD/DVD media
YokoZarHmm... I thought they would be named smarter11:25
YokoZarSuch that they would upgrade to hoary cleaner11:25
mdzone would hope11:26
mdzbut it is not so11:26
YokoZarThe backport guy should make a metapackage that conflicts all the hoary backports so it upgrades cleaner11:26
YokoZarStill, I did uncover a strange thing about xserver-xorg-dbg ;)11:26
KamionI don't think you can really hope for that given that the backports are broken to start with11:26
Kamionthey are generally not even versioned correctly11:27
mdzKamion: can you copy the .torrents into the daily dirs as well?11:27
=== Nafallo [~nafallo@nafallo.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzKamion: I posted those to ubuntu-devel asking for testing, before you published them as preview11:27
Kamionmdz: yes, when publish-release is finished11:27
mdzoh, it isn't finished?11:27
KamionI haven't actually published them really yet11:27
Kamionjust pushed them into .pool for mirroring11:27
=== thom hugs jigdo - with a local mirror, that's totally easy
mdzthom: I hope it's worth the 2 hours of my time it wasted overnight :-P11:29
=== ajmitch [~ajmitch@port164-182.ubs.maxnet.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdznot that i'm bitter11:29
thommdz: absolutely; two isos in 5 minutes11:31
Kamionthom: ok, stuff syncing to releases.u.c/.pool/ now11:32
Kamionmdz: did you generate .torrents, or do you mean that you want me to make some?11:32
Kamionif so, where did you put them? :P11:32
mdzKamion: the latter11:32
mdzKamion: I thought that I saw that you had created .torrents in releases/hoary/preview11:33
mdzbut I was cockeyed and what I saw were the warty/preview ones11:33
mdzmy eyes have lost their knack for focus this evening11:33
Kamionreleases/hoary/preview existed briefly, because the scripts are THAT GOOD11:34
Kamionthe procedure for doing .pool-only publishing is currently (a) run publish-release with poolonly as the fourth arg, (b) rm -rf releases/hoary/preview, (c) sync-mirrors11:34
=== Alessio [~Alessio@host113-4.pool8251.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzI just did a find for *.torrent, saw the word 'preview', and assumed from there11:34
mdzthom: I get a full set of 6 live+install isos in ~6 minutes with rsync11:35
Kamionthe problem with rsync for me is that I have to allocate space to keep the CDs, and if I let them get out of date it takes ages to rsync back to current11:36
Kamionjigdo has considerable appeal because the local mirror is much easier to keep up to date11:36
KamionI don't keep the ISOs on the mirror box because it doesn't have a CD writer11:36
mdzI allocate space for 6 CDs + space for rsync to work11:36
mdzI do not allocate space for an entire mirror11:36
Kamionyeah, that's kind of irritating to have to do on my laptop11:36
=== pitti tries ppc/install
Kamionthe server has more or less infinite space, but no writer; the laptop has a writer, but limited space11:37
mdzoh, forgot about that11:37
mdzinstall-powerpc: success11:37
mdzthat's 5/5 for me11:37
Kamionstill rsyncing :(11:37
pitti   206346088  38%   34.43kB/s    2:41:3511:38
Kamionon 2/611:38
=== pitti kicks rsync
pittithom: I should really have considered jigdo, will switch to it after preview11:39
mdzI must have finished rsyncing before you guys bogged down the servers :-P11:40
carloselmo: how big is an ubuntu mirror with hoary + warty?11:40
Kamionthe problem with jigdo is that we still don't have the snapshot archives that would make the jigdo files actually survive in useful form for more than a couple of days11:40
mdzpitti: at that rate it would be faster for you to use wget -c11:40
Kamion(apart from stable releases)11:40
pittimdz: now it's    413320896  76%    2.94MB/s    0:00:4211:40
pittimdz: probably the kernel part is done now :-)11:41
pitti   534603704  98%   42.07kB/s    0:02:1111:41
mdzthom: torrent ETA?11:41
=== Nafallo still syncs kernel *
Kamiontorrents still generating11:41
=== Keybuk [~scott@host217-37-231-22.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Nafallorsync started 9:01 ;-)11:41
mdzKamion: eek11:41
Keybukoops, not that button11:42
Kamionthom: ok, you should be able to embark on torrent love nowish11:42
pittimdz: I just wonder why i386/live is only 540 MB (although it is supposed to contain WinFOSS), but ppc/live is 615 MB, although it certainly does not contain Win stuff?11:44
mdzpitti: 3 kernels11:44
pittioh, right11:44
mdzpitti: i386 does not have winfoss on it yet11:45
pittiso power3 and power4 machines don't boot with the powerpc kernel?11:45
pittiI always thought that was like 386 vs. 68611:45
KamionI didn't manage to get winfoss down pre-preview11:45
Kamionpitti: no, they're incompatible11:45
pittiKamion: not that I would miss it :-)11:45
Kamionpitti: at the MMU-handling level in the kernel11:45
Kamionrequires scary kernel hacking to unify them11:46
=== mvo [~egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionand upstream basically don't care11:46
=== fablivemulti [~ubuntu@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== memyself [~root@80-242-237-166.multikabel.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fablivemultilive-i386 is GO on piix11:47
fablivemultithere is only one little issue with the UK keyboard with X11:47
memyselfwhich is?11:47
fablivemultibut nothing too bad11:47
fablivemultiit's mismapping one char11:48
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thomppc is going11:49
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=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-22.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jordithom thom thom11:50
mdzthom: I have seeds standing by, pending tracker authorization11:50
fabbionelive-cd doesn't recover from hibernate11:50
mdzfabbione: haha no it certainly doesn't11:51
mdzone amd64 success report from ubuntu-devel11:51
Keybukwe need an employee in Houston11:52
thomrsync still running11:52
MithrandirGFDL is not ok for main, right?11:52
KamionMithrandir: it's fine for Ubuntu main11:53
MithrandirKamion: ok11:53
=== amu 's sync is now also finished, i'll try also one round
mdzfabbione: was that a multiseat boot?11:54
mdzhas anyone done an i386 install yet?11:56
=== pitti receives a traffic limit warning email
=== GheRivero [~ghe@hiscpdprx01.upsa.es] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Kamion goes to get CDs
=== mvo [~egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzd3vic3: the current build (linked from the topic) is the one to test11:57
d3vic3ok 11:58
fabbionemdz: yes, but in normal mode11:58
Kamionburning install-i386 nw11:58
fabbionemdz: i just used the multiseat hw11:58
fabbionemdz: i am reburning i386 install again. the previous ones were just doomed11:58
pittimdz: btw, did anybody tried upgrading from warty?11:59
thomwaaargh, source isos11:59
KamionI don't think source ISOs are very useful but it's not clear to me that we can get away without them12:00
mdzpitti: I'll do one now, also a server install12:00
thom(as in, rsync is syncing them)12:00
pittimdz: I can try one on ppc, but it will last about 1.5 hours12:00
pittimdz: (install warty, upgrade from CD)12:01
pittimdz: do we have enough time for this?12:01
Kamionif somebody competent to do so can tell me that pointing people at the archive for source is fine and that people might never be entitled to ask for source ISOs, then I can drop them, but somebody did ask for source ISOs (for Array <something>) and asserted that the GPL entitled him to that12:01
Kamioni.e. a frozen image of the source used to build those CDs, not the archive which is changing12:02
mdzpitti: that's what I'm doing now, but on amd6412:02
mdzso it should only take 40-60 minutes12:02
mdzour release target is 1800 UTC, so we have time12:02
Kamionpitti: we have plenty of time12:02
pittimdz: okay, ppc install is still running, I immediately try an upgrade afterwards12:02
Kamionhaving delayed a day, this is our least rushed release yet ;-)12:02
mdzKamion: next time we tell everyone that the release is the day before12:03
Kamionmdz: exactly what I was going to say12:03
Kamionmdz: but we have to not have artwork pending until THREE MILLISECONDS before the release12:03
mdzKamion: exactly hwat I was going to say12:04
thommdz: torrents torrenting12:04
mdzthom: thanks12:04
jdubKamion: i was going to suggest the same strategy as gnome -> due monday, released wednesday12:05
Kamionthat certainly stands a better chance of working12:06
Kamionit would be overkill for arrays, but for preview/final, absolutely12:06
fabbionemdz: installing base now (i386)12:08
Kamiontesting rescue mode, i38612:08
mdzthom: my hoary-install-i386 torrent is flowing, but hoary-live-i386 is still saying rejected12:09
fabbionelivecd i386 doesn't catch a cisco aironet pcmcia card12:09
thommdz: oh, sorry. live cds still syncing12:09
thomdamn different directories :/12:09
Kamionrescue mode seems fine, modulo crap UI (but what's news)12:10
fabbioneah it got it.. but it took a long time12:10
mdzhas anyone done a server install yet?12:11
pittii386/live: success on old fujitsu laptop12:12
thommdz: i'll try ppc server as soon as desktop finishes12:13
=== falivefromlappy [~ubuntu@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KamionI did a server install last night FWIW12:14
thommdz: live torrents going from here, work for you?12:15
mdzthom: I'll know in about 2.5 minutes when it retries12:16
mdzbtdownloadcurses seems to check every 5 minutes12:16
fabbionei386 install in phase2 now12:16
Mithrandirthom: all the live torrents are dead forme12:16
Mithrandirs/forme/for me/12:16
Mithrandirthere they sprang to life12:17
=== Mithrandir kicks his connection. Only 2.2MB/sec.
jdubmdz: i did server installs of last night's images (i386, ppc)12:17
mdzjdub: thanks12:17
fabbioneMithrandir: DIE!12:17
Mithrandirfabbione: passing 3.0MB/sec now12:17
Mithrandirseems like kicking worked12:17
fabbioneMithrandir: DIE! DIE!12:17
=== ogra fires up his rsyncs
Mithrandiruploading at 1.6MB/sec too12:18
pittimdz: ppc/install: success on iBook G4 w/o network12:18
thomaww, i'm only d/ing at 2.0MB/sec12:18
jdubmdz: perhaps we should put together a little web form for install reports12:18
mdzjdub: a test plan would be good12:18
jdubmdz: if the person ticks 'failure', it throws the report into bugzilla12:18
thom1.2MB/sec up, too12:19
jdubotherwise, it notes success12:19
mdza wiki test plan seems more achievable in the near term :-)12:19
Mithrandirthom: I just passed 5.0MB/sec down.12:19
Mithrandirnow we're almost talking12:19
=== Kamion cajoles Kinnison into testing the live CD
jdubencouraging success feedback would be good; even I didn't bother mentioning the successful installs i did last night12:19
=== WeFuckingROCK [~ubuntu@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
WeFuckingROCK3/3 successes with LiveCD12:21
=== WeFuckingROCK pats himself because he is cool
Mithrandirhi fabio :)12:21
WeFuckingROCKyeah i know it's me!12:22
=== d3vic3 wonders what was that about
pittid3vic3: fabbione tested a live CD image12:23
Mithrandird3vic3: it was just fabio testing the live cd.12:23
fabbione3 over 3 are GO12:23
pittid3vic3: ... cybercity.dk says it all :-)12:23
d3vic3sweet 12:23
fabbioneinstall on i386 almost done12:23
=== d3vic3 still waiting for image download
=== Treenaks is torrenting at 1600/300
fabbionegenerating locales....12:24
Kamionpitti: the phrasing says it all :)12:25
fabbioneKamion: ahhaa12:25
pittiKamion: that as well :-)12:26
pittimdz: success: i386/live w/ network, ati 9600, desktop12:26
thomppc in scrollkeeper hell for desktop12:26
jdubthom: spewage?12:27
pittithom: these nice error messages? do they occurr only on ppc?12:27
thomnone thus far12:27
=== jdub doesn't get why most of those only appear on ppc
thomjust three weeks wait12:27
mdzscrollkeeper seems especially slow on ppc12:27
=== Nafallo [~nafallo@h211n1c1o1027.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mithrandirdoes anybody know _why_ scrollkeeper is so slow?12:28
fabbioneinstall i386 is GO12:28
fabbioneon the piix crap too12:28
Mithrandirbah, my box is useless ATM. :P12:29
Kamionsmurfix: could the keymap selector please tell you at the end which keymap it's selected?12:30
jdubMithrandir: originally written by people who normally write docbook ;)12:30
mdzupgrading a warty desktop to current hoary removes ubuntu-desktop12:31
mdzwith apt-get dist-upgrade anyway12:31
thomdesktop ppc finished fine12:31
smurfixKamion: I can do that. Add an input field to let people try whether it's correct?12:31
=== c_ [~abelli@host-84-222-39-20.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mithrandirjdub: I guess that explains something..12:32
thomKamion: the yaboot preamble doesn't mention the server option12:32
fabbionemdz, Kamion: i have no issues so far.. you get the green light from piix department12:32
Kamionsmurfix: maybe something like that, yeah, with an opportunity to try again12:32
mdzfabbione: thanks12:32
fabbionemdz: no problem12:32
mdzmvo: here?12:32
mvomdz: yes12:33
mdzmvo: can you look into the warty->hoary upgrade issue?12:33
=== fabbione goes back bashing the kernel build system to death
smurfixKamion: Makes sense. I'll put that in.12:33
mvomdz: ok12:33
Kamionmdz: the live CD takes CENTURIES to generate locales if you select a language not already on the CD12:33
=== pitti hugs daniels
pittisuccess: i386/live on Samsung M40 laptop with widescreen display12:34
mdzmvo: aptitude dist-upgrade gets it right, but not apt-get dist-upgrade12:34
pittilast time, the resolution was completely wrong and it was impossible to setup 1440x9012:34
mdzKamion: to generate?  or to download?12:34
mdzKamion: oh, the live CD12:34
Kamionmdz: adding a --keep-existing option to locale-gen would probably fix it12:34
mdzyes, it takes a very long time12:34
Kamionmdz: it's regenerating all the locales that are already there12:34
Kamionand the progress bar just says "Configuring language", no extra information12:34
mvomdz: boot a warty system now12:35
mdzKamion: that'd have to be changed in glibc, I suppose12:35
Kamionyep, I can do that pre-final12:35
KamionKinnison thought the live CD had hung12:35
mdzKamion: we need to figure out what to do about language-support-* which are not on the install CD, too12:35
Kamion<Kinnison> oh, and mouse pointers are still shit12:35
mdzKamion: hung, but was churning wildly away at the disk?12:35
mdzKamion: it's possible that we'll be able to fit all language-pack-* on the live CD, so this may not be an issue for final12:36
=== bradb [~bradb@modemcable204.186-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzpitti will let us know12:36
=== mdz workraves
mvoit installed some english dictionaries and openoffice stuff yesterday even when installing for german language12:36
mdzmvo: that's a feature12:36
pittimvo: language-support-en is in desktop, for whatever reason12:36
Kamionhmm, fontconfig is picking a serif font12:37
Kamionmdz: no, it was churning RAM12:37
mdzpitti: it's not in desktop12:37
mdzbut the installer installs it by default12:37
Kamionlocale-gen is not quick when it has to regenerate everything12:37
pittimdz: ah, ok12:37
mdzoh, it was regenerating all the english locales, I see12:37
Kamionmdz: the live rootfs generation will take eons without --keep-existing or whatever anyway, because it is currently O(n^2)12:38
svenlKamion: you have mails with patches.12:38
mdzKamion: true12:38
mdzit's not that bad on reasonable hardware, though12:38
mdzeven the 50 english locales take only a minute or so12:39
Kamionsvenl: ok, thanks12:39
=== Nafallo [~nafallo@h211n1c1o1027.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
svenlKai doubt you have time to test and i may still come up with a OF kludge to fix this clear yaboot misbehavior, but i still would like to get pmac results from it.12:40
NafalloCan someone confirm that About Ubuntu doesn't do what it should?12:40
Nafallofor me it pops up an .xml in gedit.12:40
pittisuccess: ppc live @ibook G4, networkless (only keyboard is broken, known bug)12:40
pittiNafallo: with ppc/live, I get a yelp with the welcome page12:41
thomNafallo: i get yelp on amd64/install12:41
KamionKinnison *really* doesn't like the clearlooks progress bar shimmying effect12:42
NafalloI should add I get an empty yelp in the background. probably a local failure then...12:42
Kamionespecially in combination with a left->right->left throbber12:43
Nafalloyikes! school *runs*12:44
=== abelli [~abelli@host-84-222-39-20.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubKamion: left-right-left throbber?12:46
jdubKamion: you mean a cylon? what's doing that?12:47
thomsynaptic does it when you do an update12:47
thomor, i remember some part of g-a-i/update-manager/synaptic doing it12:48
sabdflKamion: agreed on the direction of the throbber12:48
Kamionjdub: yes, update-manager12:48
Kamionsabdfl: um, it's not the direction?12:48
sabdflit should be >>>>> and move to the right12:48
Kamionsabdfl: it doesn't know the length yet, so it does that briefly12:48
thomsynaptic does it when it's unpacking12:49
thomserver just installed fine on ppc12:49
mvosynaptic does it when it waits for dpkg (when dpkg reads it's database and gives no feedback)12:49
Kamionbut when it does that in combination with the shimmering effect, it's epileptic-fit-inducing12:49
=== thom burns amd64
Kamionbecause you have a thing going left->right->left *and* a diagonal shimmer on the bar12:49
sabdflthe shimmering -- the diagonal lines are crackful12:49
mvoKamion: it's a bit fast in the version in hoary, my version is slower now12:49
sabdflthey should be chevron-style12:49
sabdfl > > > >12:50
sabdfland only move to the right12:50
Kamionno, they should just disappear IMHO12:50
sabdflKamion: sure, text-mode-boy12:50
jdubKamion: ah, right; i think the animation is appropriate there; hmm.12:50
ogramvo: are you guys talking about pulse() ?12:50
Kamionsabdfl: dude, there's way too much stuff moving around at the moment12:50
Kamionit's foul12:50
KeybukDear Nautilus; please stop placing volume icons on top of existing ones, kthxbye12:50
Kamionit's like blingtastic12:50
jdubKamion: it could be made less distracting12:50
sabdflit could do with some simplification12:50
mvoogra: yes12:50
sabdflbut it has potential12:51
jdubKamion: look at OS X's, it provides great affordance of processing, but isn't too distracting12:51
jdub(it's not chevron style, either)12:51
Kamionjdub: hmm, will have to look again12:51
sabdfljdub: colour selection needs help, for window titles and menus12:51
ogramvo: hmm, so someone shuld com up with an idea what to do if you got no response form the pipe :)12:51
jdubthe important bit is the hint of processing12:51
sabdflneeds some of the warmth we got from warty -> hoary desktop transition12:51
jdubsabdfl: yes, that's totally not final12:51
KamionKinnison didn't like the hover effect on menus12:51
ogramvo: i'm using it too in hwdb-client ;)12:52
jdubKamion: that's definitely being deblinged12:52
jdubKamion: too chunky atm12:52
Kamionyou get a brown rectangle which is very distinct from the grey background, but there's a little border around the edge of it12:52
sabdflKamion: i think the colours there are leftover from warty palette12:52
Kamionsabdfl: ah, right12:52
sabdflthe raised-effect will stay, but the colours will get warmer12:52
sabdfla bit more subtle12:52
Kamionthat would certainly be nice12:52
sabdflcheckout clearlooks-olive12:52
Kamionhmm, lilo install failed on an LVM-root install12:53
jdubsabdfl: the 3dness of the menu selections will be less prominent though12:53
Kamionwill have to try again post-preview and debug12:53
KamionLVM-root's not quite so high prio though12:53
Kamionmvo: fast> yeah, reducing the speed would help with the motion-sickness effect, definitely12:53
Kamion(hmm, that sounded sarcastic, sorry, it wasn't meant to be)12:54
jdubthe OS X one is slower12:54
mvoKamion: no worries, I think I understood it right :) it's slower in my local tree 12:54
Kamionso the application controls the speed?12:54
jdubno, engine defined12:55
jdubcould be turned into a theme option, but that's silly :)12:55
ograKamion: you can either set an idle loop or set a timeout....12:55
jduboh, synaptic cylon, not theme?12:55
ograKamion: where the idling depends on the system speed and scles with it12:55
Kamionjdub: right12:55
mvojdub: synaptic calls gtk_progress_bar_pulse12:56
Kamionclearlooks-olive> is that in universe? can't check right now12:56
=== bradb [~bradb@MTL-ppp-144647.qc.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel
ograKamion: should be installed12:56
ograKamion: its just another color variant12:56
thommvo: holy crap; the "You've inserted an ubuntu cd" thing is totally sweet!12:57
Kamionit's pretty12:57
=== mvo is happy
jdubmvo: yeah, was caught up in previous context ;)12:57
=== ogra is _very_ courious if his amd64 widescreen display will get recognized now.....
mdzmvo: we need to be sure to test that thoroughly; it will be great to be able to upgrade from hoary with it, but only if we make sure that it is solid before final :-)12:58
=== Kinnison [~dsilvers@haddenham.pepperfish.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KinnisonHi guys12:59
Kamion11:52 < sabdfl> the raised-effect will stay, but the colours will get warmer12:59
Kamion11:52 < sabdfl> a bit more subtle12:59
KamionKinnison: ^-12:59
Kamion11:52 < sabdfl> checkout clearlooks-olive12:59
jdubraised effect will be more subtle too01:00
jdubless liney01:00
mvomdz: nod01:00
KinnisonThe wibbly lines in the progress bars actually gave me about three seconds worth of motion sickness the first time I saw them01:00
thomi actually think clearlooks itself is the nicest of the clearlooks based themes, but lighthouse-blue is still my favourite :-)01:01
Kinnisonbad muju01:01
amumdz: i386/live on T41 and Samsung X30, works fine01:01
=== thom reboots to test amd64
=== amu test ppc
mdzd3vic3: did you intend to claim bug 7405?01:02
sivangHey all01:02
jdubuh oh01:03
sabdflKinnison: agreed, they need work, but given direction i think they could be very nice01:03
jdubgetting abnormal status eroror messages on my sata disks01:03
Kinnisonsabdfl: A good rule of thumb is "only one moving part at a time"01:03
d3vic3mdz, yes 01:03
sabdflKinnison: aqua01:03
Kinnisonsabdfl: Really far too busy01:04
=== Kinnison finds aqua very very very very annoying
KinnisonHmm, not enough 'very's there01:04
jdubKinnison: equally, the affordance given by knowing there's something happening is helpful01:04
Kinnisonjdub: Then it needs to be way way more subtle01:05
sivangis there any news for the PIIX detection bug?01:05
sabdflyes, it needs to be more subtle01:05
jdubyes, closer to OS X's01:05
Kinnisonjdub: E.g. a periodic glint or something01:05
mdzd3vic3: hotplug is a critical package, and I'm not certain that the proposed changes are correct01:05
Kamionsivang: kernel -25.201:05
fabbionesivang: yes. it has been fixed01:05
sabdflsivang: we've rolled back to a previous bug instead01:05
Kinnisonjdub: OS X's is too in-your-face IMO01:05
Kamionsivang: current CDs are preview candidates01:05
sabdflguys, let's focus on release now01:05
Kamionmdz: was I correct in gleaning from the scrollback that jbailey's report that -25.1 was broken on his system was a false alarm?01:05
mdzKamion: yes01:05
jbaileyKamion: Yes.01:06
sivangKamion, sabdfl, fabbione : kthxrsyncingnow :)01:06
mdzKamion: so in fact it looks like the approach in -25.1 is fairly reasonable01:06
mdzKamion: and seems to have fixed nico's problem (see #ubuntu)01:06
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d3vic3mdz, i figured the changes must not go to hotplug 01:06
ogra_liveno widescreen :(01:06
Kamionok, good (hm, I'm not on #ubuntu)01:06
jbaileyKamion: My bad for being in too much of a hurry.  I have the two SATA systems side by each and got scrambled as to which one I was looking at.01:06
d3vic3mdz, I'm trying to figure out wich package they must go to 01:07
Kamionjbailey: np, we were all a bit stressed01:07
jdubjbailey: do you have any sii sata?01:07
pittihi sivang01:07
sabdfljbailey: happy to send you some more systems to have side by side, kamion's full :-)01:07
sivangpitti: Hi :)01:07
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Mithrandirsabdfl: ooh, free hardware. ;)  (I guess I shouldn't say that with you present. :)01:08
jbaileyjdub: Lemme just check a couple other machines, just a sec.01:08
Kamionquid pro quo ...01:08
=== jdub_ might reboot to 2.6.8, see if the same thing happens
thomKamion: d'you know if anyone is working on evms support for the installer, OOI?01:09
jbaileysabdfl: *lol*  At this point so am I.  And then a G5 arrived and I haven't quite figured out where I'm going to put it ;)01:09
Kamionthom: not AFAIK01:09
Mithrandirthom: I'm going to, but haven't gotten around to it yet.01:09
sabdflmdz: #ubuntu-meeting?01:09
Mithrandirjbailey: get a rack and a KVM?01:09
jbaileyMithrandir: You know I live in a one-room appartment, right?01:09
Mithrandirjbailey: nope, I didn't know that.01:10
Mithrandirjbailey: and you work from home?  Must be crowded.01:10
dredgjbailey: clearly you need to expand. annex your neighbours :)01:10
jbaileyMithrandir: Ah, yeah.  Me, my wife and two cats.  Looking forward to moving in July. =)01:10
Kamionsabdfl: btw, the candidate images have been on releases.ubuntu.com/.pool/ for a while, although I've no idea how many mirrors will have picked them up01:10
Mithrandirjbailey: same, sans wife, cats, add girlfriend who likes computers almost as much as I do.  Also looking forward to moving in June/July.01:11
sabdflKamion: what time were they uploaded?01:11
sivangKamion: the "current" symlink is updated right?01:11
Kamionsabdfl: 10:32 < Kamion> thom: ok, stuff syncing to releases.u.c/.pool/ now01:11
KinnisonI'll leave you guys to it01:11
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Kamionsivang: no, .pool is for pre-mirroring01:12
jbaileyMithrandir: My belle is 'patient' about the computers...  The pegasos and G5 are almost silent, so they can at least stay on all the time.  The alpha and hppa box may as well go in storage, and the ia64 is at a colo ;)01:12
Kamionsivang: er, daily/current has been yes, sorry, misunderstood you01:12
sivangKamion: tnx :)01:12
Mithrandirjbailey: we're getting a computer room and somewhere to stuff a rack.  I'm adamant about that. :)01:12
lifelessKamion: elmo gpg internals question.01:12
Kamionlifeless: ?01:13
=== d3vic3 thinks his space is too big
d3vic3anayone got hardware to send my way :p 01:13
lifelessgpgme exposes per key keyid as 16digit hex strings01:13
Kamionlifeless: did you mean me or elmo or both?01:13
lifelessgpg exposes teh same as 8 digit hex strings  + key type 01:13
opiis there anyone who is handling php4 modules in Universe?01:13
lifelessKamion: whoever can help.01:13
jbaileyd3vic3: Careful wht you ask for.  People have this crazy habit of expecting you to actually troubleshoot things on the hardware. =)01:13
lifelesspicked the math head and the security head. 01:13
Mithrandirjbailey: and you being a glibc guy...  fun, isn't it? :)01:14
Kamionlifeless: elmo is asleep, and when he gets up he will probably be busy with the hoary preview; I'm busy with the hoary preview right now01:14
Kamionlifeless: now is not really an ideal time :)01:14
d3vic3jbailey, good thing I can do that, if I got the time 01:14
lifelessthis is making baz do gpg checking right01:14
sivangjbailey: hey Jeff, hmm, I wouldn't mind troubelshooting for having exotic hardware :)01:14
dredgopi: try #ubuntu-motu01:14
opidredg: 'k01:15
jbaileyMithrandir: I told people that I would care about any arch that they sent me and then prayed that an s390 wouldn't show up at my doorstep.  It was worse, I got an m68k.01:15
lifelessso I'll carry on with my obscene hack. AFAICT its not any more gamable than ids are intrinsically, and I support fingerprints01:15
Mithrandirjbailey: *chuckle*.  They're not as noisy, though.01:15
Mithrandirlifeless: what is the problem you're trying to solve?01:15
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lifelessMithrandir: getting the 16 digit keyid out of gpg, so that I can directly compare with gpgme, and so that users can easily configure stuff.01:17
Mithrandirlifeless: gpg --with-colons --list-keys tfheen@debian.org | grep ^pub01:17
Mithrandirpub:u:1024:17:412B1E31817A996A:1999-11-28:::u:Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no>::scESC:01:17
Mithrandiryou should be using --with-colons anyhow if you are parsing gpg output01:18
Mithrandiranything else is madness01:18
lifelessoh, gpgme does01:18
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thomok, server install on amd64 looks good01:19
sivanghmm rsync speedup's real nice, 40Mins to finish :)01:19
jdubah crap, lost the logs of the errors01:19
pittimvo: ubuntu-desktop is removed for me (ppc) as well when doing warty->hoary01:20
pittimvo: any idea why?01:20
Kamionsivang: rsync will lie, it'll probably be faster than that01:20
sivangKamion: then yay, great :)01:20
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-9-122.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mvopitti: not yet, my warty install didn't showed it and therefore I'm installing a clean version now01:20
seb128liveCD works fine on amd6401:21
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ogra_liveseb128: no widescreen panel detection here01:21
lifelessMithrandir: thanks01:22
pittimvo: darn, upgrade is already running01:22
mvolifeless: you know about /usr/share/doc/gnupg/DETAILS.gz? 01:22
pittimvo: I should probably have done a --dry-run before01:22
pittimvo: can you please do this?01:22
lifelessmmm, didn't, thanks01:23
jdub_hrm. disk death may be a possibility. :-|01:23
mvopitti: do what?01:23
lifelessmvo: I do have most gpg stuff under control ;)01:23
pittimvo: apt-get -u --dry-run dist-upgrade01:23
pittimvo: I upgraded right away01:23
mvolifeless: ok (wanted to be helpfull :)01:24
mvopitti: I'll look into it01:24
lifelessmvo: oh you were - thanks again.01:24
lifelessmvo: I'm just tired -> grumpy01:24
=== mpt_london [~mpt@host217-37-231-22.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
thomogra_live, please, for the love of god, don't use php5 based on dotdeb.org? :-)01:25
=== srbaker [~srbaker@blk-222-52-156.eastlink.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mpt_london"E: /var/cache/apt/archives/language-pack-en-base_20050308_all.deb:  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/locale-langpack/en_CA/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-panel-2.0.mo', which is also in package language-pack-en"01:25
ogra_livethom: i will ask for your expertise on package review if you like ;)01:26
sivangthom: are you allergic to php5, I've seen you talk about this before :)01:26
=== morgs [~morgan@wblv-146-234-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel
thomogra_live, well, infinity is already working on php5 for debian unstable, and he's php4 maintainer and working on ubuntu too01:26
Kamionmpt_london: yeah, known langpack bug01:26
ogra_livethom: will he make it before release (php5)01:27
=== trukulo [~mzarza@26.Red-81-45-239.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mithrandirhmm, releases.ubuntu.com seems to be missing a favicon.01:27
thomogra_live, he's been threatening them for a while01:27
pittigreat, now when we release the preview, everybody stumbles over the langpacks01:27
pittithey had this structure for ages...01:27
KamionMithrandir: feel free to give me one01:27
MithrandirKamion: same as the one on www.ubuntu.com?01:27
Kamioncdimage.ubuntu.com doesn't have one either iirc?01:27
KamionMithrandir: ok, where does it have to live?01:27
Mithrandir/favicon.ico, iirc01:28
thomKamion, i can do favicons01:28
ogra_livethom: i want that in universe in any case for release, even if its a packages i have to tag as preview in the version (to prevent the whining)01:28
Kamionthom: they need to be on little01:28
KamionI'll grab the one from www.u.c01:28
=== Kinnison [~dsilvers@haddenham.pepperfish.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KinnisonI just upgraded my desktop and my look&feel just went way downhill01:30
KinnisonAny chance of hoary *also* carrying the old theme for those of us who prefer it?01:30
KamionMithrandir: will be there for preview01:31
MithrandirKamion: great01:31
jdub_Kinnison: possibly; your point was made earlier - what's in preview is not final.01:31
Kamiongood suggestion, not something I tend to think of01:31
Kamioncdimage.ubuntu.com has it too01:31
Kinnisonjdub_: I appreciate changing the default for new installs; I just think it's a pity that we've effectively stomped on a user preference01:32
jdub_Kinnison: it was done that way for preview, it won't be like that for final01:32
jdub_Kinnison: it was change one package vs. three or four.01:33
jdub_one was tough enough, at the time.01:33
d3vic3seb128, ping 01:33
Kinnisonjdub_: okay cool01:33
=== Kinnison puts up with blue window borders for now
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seb128d3vic3: pong ?01:37
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jdub_all this sata talk killed one of my server's disks :-)01:38
=== pitti watches the warty->hoary upgrade removing openoffice.org
pittimvo: any idea? ^01:39
pitti(only the metapackage)01:39
mvopitti: not yet, still installing :)01:39
d3vic3seb128, "rebuild without libhowl0 dep" = "rebuild for libhowl transition" ? 01:40
amuhmm live@ppc powerbook4 has trouble with german keybord, in xorg it is a pc104 and US 01:40
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pittiamu: known bug, for me too01:41
dholbachseb128: uploading rebuilt gnomeicu01:41
mvohi dholbach 01:42
amupitti: `k   01:42
dholbachhi mvo! :-)01:42
pittiamu: #713801:43
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pittiwarty->hoary upgrade asks conffile question about /etc/udev/scripts/ide-devfs.sh01:47
Treenakspitti: it asks a LOT of conffile questions.. didn't write them down, but I upgraded a clean warty (CD) install to hoary the other day01:48
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Treenaksand I had to answer 4-5 conffile questions01:48
Treenaks(clean = un-security-patched, pure CD-install)01:48
pittisame for me01:48
pittimdz: is there a meta-bug for upgrading warty->hoary, similar to #1436?01:49
pittimdz: I'd like to make it depend on particular bugs like #497301:49
mdzpitti: no, but feel free to create one01:49
pittimdz: do you agree that we should fix dpkg question bugs by the final? #4973 is "normal" right now, but I'd like to upgrade their severity01:50
fabbionemdz: if i understood right, 25.2 was a mistake and enable_libata-2 should be readded, right?01:51
=== amu boots back in his wounderfull K-env :)
mdzfabbione: 25.2 was not a mistake, but yes, we should readd that01:52
fabbionemdz: yeah i mean.. the report of the problem was a mistake01:52
KeybukWhen mentioning dpkg-related bugs, _please_ specify whether it's a Debian# or Ubuntu#01:53
Keybukthere are dpkg bugs in the Debian BTS < 4973 :p01:54
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jdub__^ automated testing interest02:03
jdub__no real detail02:03
jdub__but interesting insight into what their tools test02:04
=== low [~low@d213-102-162-34.cust.tele2.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lowok, lilo and grub chokes at install if /boot is xfs02:06
=== `anthony [~anthony@220-253-31-237.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-love for getting involved | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryGoals | Kubuntu on #kubuntu-devel | Hoary preview release: http://releases.ubuntu.com/hoary/
lowmdz, another problem is, i can't open gnome menus on top on the screen02:07
sabdflcongrats everybody02:07
sabdflthanks espcially to kamion, mdz, elmo, fabbione for getting us through the kernel krunch02:08
sabdfl < no reference to kde whatsoever >02:08
Kamionlow: xfs /boot and grub> yeah, long-known bug, never been successfully diagnosed02:08
Kamionthere is a warning in place I believe02:08
Treenakshey, no final name for hoary+1 in the announcement :P02:09
Riddellsabdfl :)02:09
lowKamion, yep. i even know why it breaks (long time xfs user): 1st partition sector can't be used for lilo or grub when xfs is used02:09
lowyou must use MBR02:09
mpt_londonSomeone, please, s/The correct CD for/For/g :-)02:09
HiddenWolfkamion: the warning is there, yeah02:10
lowKamion, anyway i don't know why grub and lilo grumble when i ask them to use mbr02:10
Kamionmpt_london: where what?02:10
sabdflmpt_london: where does that show up?02:10
magnoncongrats to everyone :)02:10
Kamionok, will change02:10
mdzsabdfl: the CD image index02:10
mpt_londonKamion, sabdfl: http://releases.ubuntu.com/hoary/02:10
Kamionthat was mako text I think02:10
sabdflTreenaks: erm. good point02:10
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sabdflah, good catch mpt_london02:11
Kamionmpt_london: done02:11
mpt_londonEither that, or add various "The incorrect CD for" sections around the place02:11
mpt_londonjust to keep people on their toes02:12
Kamionlow: we *don't* use the first partition sector; we *do* use the MBR02:12
Kamionlow: it's not that simple02:12
fabbionemdz: do i have green light to upload kernel-wedge? ;)02:12
kokehmm, gnome-btdownload is nice, testing with hoary-preview :)02:13
lowKamion, i'm using lilo for ages w/ xfs on mbr, it never annoyed me02:13
lifelessKamion: can I ask a favour ?02:13
Kamionlifeless: sure02:13
Kamionyou can ask ;-)02:13
mdzfabbione: yes02:14
lifelessKamion: when elmo srufaces, or thom, There was a request I asked elmo to do - that he did - that seems not-quite-right.02:14
mdzpitti: OK to upload langpacks, security updates, hpoj, cupsys, etc.02:14
jdubseb128: want version diffs now? ;-) ;-)02:14
lifelessKamion: the request was gnupg & libgpgme-dev in the bazaar build chroots02:14
lifelessKamion: I suspect only the former happened, because I phrased the second as 'and shortly willalso need' ;/02:14
Kamionlifeless: thom should be around ...02:14
Kamionbut if not I can pass it on02:15
lifelessKamion: I'm crashing to sleep though, so can't do the buzzy fly thing - so if you can channel me, for that, with promises of a lovely JustWork gpg interface as soon as I can build the debs ..02:15
Kamionlifeless: 'k02:15
lifelessI'd really appreciate that.02:15
=== jdub weighs up early meeting and sleep today. hrm.
=== ogra_live reboots to normal.....
=== thom [~thom@retribution.clearairturbulence.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionthom: request from lifeless:02:18
Kamion13:14 < lifeless> Kamion: when elmo srufaces, or thom, There was a request I asked elmo to do - that he did - that seems not-quite-right.02:19
Kamion13:14 < lifeless> Kamion: the request was gnupg & libgpgme-dev in the bazaar build chroots02:19
Kamion13:14 < lifeless> Kamion: I suspect only the former happened, because I phrased the second as 'and shortly willalso need' ;/02:19
Kamion13:15 < lifeless> Kamion: I'm crashing to sleep though, so can't do the buzzy fly thing - so if you can channel me, for that, with promises of a lovely JustWork gpg interface as soon as I can build the debs ..02:19
Kamionlow: doing a test run now02:19
lowKamion, thx02:20
pittimdz: cool, I'll do. preview stuff is settled now?02:20
Kamionpitti: preview's done and dusted02:20
pittimdz: "langpacks" -> shall I do new base langpacks and empty updates, or shall we wait for a bug fix?02:20
=== ogra [~ogra@p508EAA85.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiKamion: all my install and live tests were okay, upgrading is a mess02:21
=== jdub raises an eyebrow at "desktop publishing" in release announce
pittiKamion: but it's too late to fix this for preview anyway :-)02:21
=== Treenaks publishes his desktop
seb128jdub: yep02:21
jdubseb128: glutton for punishment :)|02:21
seb128jdub: probably gnomemeeting and gdm02:21
Kamionjdub: that was sivang I think02:21
mdzpitti: new base, please02:21
mdzpitti: this is urgent02:21
pittimdz: we need to trick away elmo again :-)02:22
Mithrandirmdz: is the preview freeze lifted now? :)02:22
Kamion"with vorbis playback and Python 2.4 ready out of the box" is not great grammar, but hey02:22
mdzMithrandir: yes02:22
mdzbut please don't do anything crazy yet :-)02:22
Mithrandirutf8-migration-tool ok in a couple of hours?02:22
HiddenWolfkamion: who knows, if patents in the eu get shot down... ;)02:22
mdzsabdfl: we're the top story on distrowatch02:23
mdzthey are so fast02:23
KamionHiddenWolf: what was that in reply to?02:23
fabbionemdz: do you still have superpower to process NEW?02:23
mdzfabbione: yes, but only if it's urgent02:23
fabbioneok nothing urgent02:23
dholbachwhoever put the community in the previewrelease draft: good thinking, thank you!02:23
HiddenWolfkamion: the vorbis playback: if patents get shot, it's one hurdle out of the way to add mp3/dvd playback02:23
mdzMithrandir: utf8-migration-tool is fine now; it isn't installed by default or anything02:23
Mithrandirmdz: it needs some more polishing for those people who want to upgrade from C locales.  Should be easy enough now that I've decided how to handle it.02:24
mdzpushing 8mbit on the torrent02:24
jdubdholbach: dude, that's the best bit :-)02:24
dholbachjdub: YEAH :-)02:24
Burgundaviaalready on distrowatch02:25
TreenaksOK, who submits to slashdot?02:25
jordisabdfl: did you see planet.d.o?02:25
=== Mithrandir notes that there hasn't been a single byte of ia64 downloads yet.
jdubMithrandir: ;)02:26
HiddenWolfhm, distrowatch isn't mentioning ubuntu for me02:26
dholbachjdub: uploaded rebuilt gnome-phone-manager02:26
jdubTreenaks: do it anyway, best entry wins ;)02:26
jdubdholbach: sweet!02:26
KamionHiddenWolf: EU patents haven't been legally valid up to now and that hasn't stopped it being a problem02:26
HiddenWolfkamion: it'll take the threat out of the air for 400 million people. 02:27
mdzHiddenWolf: reload02:27
BurgundaviaHiddenWolf: top of the page02:27
HiddenWolfmdz: 2005-03-10  Distribution Release: Kurumin Linux 4.102:27
tsengits definately ubuntu02:27
tsengyou are caching or something.02:27
tsengshift+reload could be helpful.02:28
jdubgee DW are fast02:28
Burgundaviamdz: do we have stats about how many people are hittings the repos, etc?02:28
KamionHiddenWolf: however that's anything but the direction in which things are going, unfortunately02:28
Treenaksjdub: maybe they're reading the channel?02:28
mdzBurgundavia: I don't02:29
KamionHiddenWolf: in any case I was complaining about the grammar, not the content :)02:29
Burgundaviahe is probably subscribed to the announce lists of ever distro02:29
dholbachcan anybody help me with this one: "dh_shlibdeps -pgnome-bluetooth -> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: could not find path for libgnomebt.so.0"   --  although debian/libgnomebt0.shlibs seems ok02:29
HiddenWolfmdz: i've been reloading a lot, but it still won't refresh02:29
thomubuntu is top for me (on distrowatch, but ... ;-) )02:30
mdzHiddenWolf: I have no more clues for you; it's correct for everyone else02:30
jdubhrm, one thing missing from the preview announce i didn't think of before: there's no clear, strong indication that this intended for and regarded as safe for testing02:30
mdzjdub: too late02:30
BurgundaviaI think the word preview might be a clue02:30
jdubmdz: obviously.02:31
mdzthe fact that we're sending it to ubuntu-announce is a clue for those folks02:31
Burgundaviahey you planet.ubuntu folks, push the blogs out02:31
jdubmdz: we make it very explicit in gnome release announcements because people, on the whole, don't infer it.02:32
Kamionmdz: #7424 is a good idea from Kinnison that might have allowed us to dodge some of the bullets this time round02:32
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mdzmvo: someone posted to -devel saying that update-notifier tried to upgrade from a live CD again; I thought that was fixed02:32
mdzKamion: sure, we could do that02:33
mdzand perhaps some knoppix-style options as well02:33
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mvomdz: I didn't wanted to upload before preview02:33
mdzmvo: I thought it was fixed weeks ago, but I guess I'm mistaken02:34
mdzmvo: anyway, feel free to upload now :-)02:34
Kamionparsing non-debconfy boot options is annoyingly fiddly, but could be done02:34
HiddenWolfhm: it seems distrowatch.com is updated / distrowatch.cz is not02:34
mvomdz: what is upload policy now? can we upload carefully selected bugfixes?02:34
mdzmvo: for things which are part of desktop, be careful02:35
mvomdz: I thought it was fixed, but one or two days before preview noticted that it wasn't :/02:35
mdzfor other things, general bugfixes are OK02:35
mvomdz: I have fixes for update-manager, synaptic, python-apt and update-notifier ready that I would like to upload in the new couple of days02:35
mdzmvo: synaptic -> including libgnome2-perl?02:36
=== HiddenWolf wonders how many new users hoary will generate
BurgundaviaHiddenWolf: at least 1, my step mom02:37
KamionXFS on lilo works fine for me, so I don't know what low was talking about02:37
HiddenWolfburgundavia: my mother will start on hoary+1: provided gnome tackles the resources02:38
mvomdz: I can add this dependency, yes. and small fixes like a slower progressbar pulse, a potenial file-descriptor leak and stuff like this, pretty low impact02:38
=== Kamion -> lunch
BurgundaviaHiddenWolf: my father is hoary+102:38
BurgundaviaHiddenWolf: or 2 or 3 or 1002:38
mvomdz: update-manager/python-apt is a bit bigger, I added support to read the apt pinfile 02:38
mvomdz: but it does not touch exisiting code in python-apt and should generally be safe02:38
HiddenWolfmy father sells windows software, won't ever get him to switch02:39
=== fabbione heads off for a little nap
pittiHi lamont02:40
dholbachhey lamont 02:40
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fabbioneah lamont02:40
mdzmadduck: yes, it is02:40
mdzmadduck: cf. #kubuntu and #kubuntu-devel02:40
fabbionelamont: i just commited the "Kill the patch madness"02:40
madduckmdz: that's pretty amazing. so you guys want to continue a 6 month release cycle with 15'000+ packages?02:41
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fabbionelamont: if you want to give it an overall check.. it works on amd64.. waiting i38 to finish the build02:41
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mdzmadduck: yes.  not all 15,000 packages are officially supported, though.02:41
madduckmako: do i have to sign up for more CDs again, or will i be sent the same shipment as before?02:41
=== lamont brb
madduckmdz: mh, maybe this should be made more explicit in such announcements... but that's just a detail.02:42
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mdzmadduck: we still consider these packages to be part of Ubuntu, though they receive less QA02:43
tarzeaumadduck: now02:43
jdubso, the gnome livecd is kinda funny02:43
madducktarzeau: what's going on?02:43
jdubluis removed a huge stack of stuff to have more space (and smaller cd)02:43
mdzjdub: which daily is it based on?02:43
jdubincluding vim, nano, ... ;-)02:44
jdubmdz: few days back, i'll double check02:44
tarzeaumadduck: i was curious about your question and the answers to it02:44
madduckmdz: some people did not read that from your email. i just had two in my office who were all in rage telling me that ubuntu now goes full way.02:44
madduckoh. want scrollback?02:44
mdzjdub: depending on which kernel he got, it might be a good idea to roll a preview-based one02:44
madducktarzeau: http://rafb.net/paste/results/3g5sR434.txt02:44
Goshawkwhat will be happen to GNU/linux ubuntu is the software patents in Europe will be accepted?02:44
madduckwe will become an underground organisation02:45
pittimdz: warty->hoary upgrade finished; a bit rough and there are no langpacks installed, but it works in principle02:45
Goshawkmadduck, what???02:45
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Goshawkor better how?02:45
pittimdz: I collected all issues in #741602:45
madduckGoshawk: who knows... 02:45
mvowe'll move development into a space station02:45
mdzGoshawk: madduck is joking with you02:45
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dholbachmvo: oh rocking, sabdfl wll love that02:45
dredgGoshawk: that really remains to be seen. i'll let you know when I take out McCreevy.. he only lives a few miles away02:46
madduckmdz: unless push comes to shove and we will actually have to do something like that... :/02:46
pittimdz: oh, and the locale is still ISO02:46
madduckGoshawk: but yeah, i am joking... somewhat.02:46
lamontit's not nice to upgrade all the libs and not restart things, you see..02:46
Goshawkdredg, but have you thought only one time to what will happen?02:46
=== lamont must run kids to school. back in a bit
jdubGoshawk: it will just mean more places that won't be able to use stuff, and we'd continue to be careful02:47
mdzpitti: utf8-migration-tool will handle that (right, Mithrandir?)02:47
pittimdz: locales are generated at langpack installation, but the default in /etc/environment must be changed02:47
Mithrandirmdz: u8mg will change the locale and convert file names.02:47
pittiMithrandir: ^is that done?02:47
pittiah, cool02:47
Mithrandirpitti: it doesn't touch /etc/environment, no.02:48
pittiMithrandir: uh, how does it change the default locale then?02:48
Mithrandirchanges .dmrc02:48
pittiMithrandir: so console will still have ISO?02:48
Mithrandirthe real fix is for pam_env to have per-user enviroment files02:49
pittiMithrandir: uh, that means u8mg is per-user, not system-wide?02:49
Mithrandirpitti: correct.02:49
Mithrandiru8mt, actually02:49
pittier, yes02:50
tarzeaumvo: on the sea would be easier, no?02:50
mdzgah, everyone is replying to me with pre-preview tests now02:50
mdzand off-list02:51
mvotarzeau: sure, but less fun :p02:51
ogratarzeau: but less cool02:51
mdzKamion: you're going to be awake for a while, right?02:51
mdzI think I'm going to sleep some02:51
dholbachmdz: good night02:52
mvonight mdz 02:52
ogranight mdz02:52
jdubgute nacht02:52
mdzcall my mobile if the world is ending02:52
mdznight folks02:52
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pittinight mdz 02:52
tarzeauogra, mvo i wouldn't want to live in a fartstinking, hard to get fresh air space station02:52
tarzeaubut certainly you can put me on a ship or island with internet 02:53
seb128'night mdz 02:53
thomnight mdz02:54
ogratarzeau: but "the distro from outer space" would make a nice advert :)02:56
tarzeaudistro from northpole would be nice too, wouldn't it?02:58
tarzeauespecially when you shipped it on 24th dec02:58
ograpitti: did you send heise a note ?02:59
pittiogra: no, not yet02:59
pittiogra: I'm still waiting for the next catastrophy which blocks the preview another day02:59
=== pitti ducks
pittiogra: no, seriously, didn't find the time to do so 03:00
ograpitti: much to late now03:00
ogra(for blocking)03:00
pittiogra: all my machines were tested successfully. worksforme -> out with it :-)03:00
ogranearly the same here...beside one bug in the detetion of my widescreen display03:01
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=== pitti installs cd on his i386 desktop
=== koke going to eeatt
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jdubRiddell: http://dot.kde.org/1110426963/03:16
jdubRiddell: see that?03:16
Riddelljdub: of course, I approved it03:16
Riddelljdub: I've spoken to them about doing a kubuntu-amarok in future03:17
danielssvenl: i'm uncomfortable with the hack, and i do not have the time to port the radeon driver.  i don't appreciate being given ultimatums, either.  if you want to actually provide a full patch, please do that, and i'll look at it.  if you want to fix the pcigart fallback, even better.  but please realise that I have even less time than you do (I'm in the middle of moving right now, as well as Hoary), so really, telling me to do one or the othe03:17
jdubRiddell: tops.03:17
danielsmdz: is xserver even a virtual package at all?03:17
svenldaniels: hey, don't take it badly, it was not meant so.03:17
danielsmdz: i suppose the main value comes in that external modules can depend on xserver-xorg if they're compiled, although the value of a debugging server when you're loading external modules is severely decreased03:17
svenldaniels: you said you would add the bustype thing first, and then continue telling me you don't like the hack :/03:18
=== egli [~egli@gate.wyona.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
danielssvenl: i said i'd think about it.03:18
svenldaniels: why you dislike it so much ? And what do you think i can propose apart from the full pcigart fallback patch that would be acceptable to you ?03:18
danielssvenl: because it's an ugly hack, dude.  you do realise that there is absolutely no precedent for testing for a specific machine type and adding device-specific options?03:19
danielssvenl: no-one's done this before, because it's really, really ugly.03:19
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=== chuck_ is now known as zul
zulthere thats better...hey03:20
jdubRiddell: amarok-gstreamer is in universe - intended?03:21
svenldaniels: ok, but you suggest no alternative ? It is not my fault that pcigart fallback has been broken in X.org for ages.03:22
svenldaniels: what do you think as alternative to have mentioned in the release notes that it should be added by hand ? It will not break X, just DRI accel.03:22
danielssvenl: it's not my fault, either.  i'm saying that I don't like an incredibly nasty hack that no-one has ever done before, and I don't have the time to integrate the full fix.03:22
danielssvenl: 'DRI is broken on Pegaos machines and whatever crazy Intel machines that provide AGP slots that aren't AGP slots.  We know.  It will probably get fixed in Bendy or something.'03:23
Kamionmdz: yeah, I'll be up for ages03:23
danielssvenl: dri not working is just so far down on my list of things that I consider bugs that it's not funny03:23
svenldaniels: what about checking that there is no agpgart for a given hardware and setting bustype pci then ?03:23
danielssvenl: given that my bug list is currently filled with 'does not work' 'hangs my machine' 'crashes and then leaves my keyboard in an unusable state'03:24
danielsnot 'can't watch glxgears whizzing around'03:24
danielssvenl: err ... how do you propose to do that?03:24
svenldaniels: the current drivers will disable dri for whatever motherboard (including x86) which has no agpgart.03:24
danielsi don't think this is the worst problem ever03:24
svenlaltough pcigart will work in these case.03:25
danielsgiven we don't have anything to set up pcie garts, and regressing acceleration on pci (or fake agp, whatever) radeons really isn't a very bad thing03:25
Kamiondaniels: yeah, xserver-xfree86 has provided xserver for a long time03:25
kentIf i try to install Hoary with qemu (I have no free partition to play with), should i still report bugs (if found)? Or does the use of qemu make the bug reports of low value to Hoary developers?03:25
danielsKamion: oh, right.  well, -dbg should provide it also.03:25
svenlnope, but maybe related to the 'my machine hangs' whenpeople force suff :)03:25
Kamiondaniels: it dates to xfree86v3 days, when depending on xserver made sense 'cos there were lots of them03:25
danielsif you force stuff, you get to keep both pieces03:25
danielsKamion: yeah03:25
danielssvenl: seriously, if you add Option "AGPFastWrite" to your configuration and your machine locks up dead, I don't care03:26
svenlI will try to find time to port the pcigart-fallback patch from debian, but i can't promise nothing.03:26
danielssvenl: my aim is to get 2D working absolutely out of the box for absolutely everyone.  3d acceleration is a nice bonus.03:26
Kamionkent: not exceptionally high priority maybe, but the bugs are still valuable03:26
danielssvenl: i doubt it's a patch from debian, it's probably just something that broke since radeon_driver has changed so much03:26
svenldaniels: 2D performance is vastly improved on radeon with DRI.03:26
svenldaniels: we will see.03:27
svenldaniels: still, the workaround would be upto 5 lines of shell script, and d-i stuff is full of this, so it is not unprecedented.03:27
=== sivang is burning new livecd for testing.
danielssvenl: yes, but I have to maintain xserver-xorg, and the configuration there is unmaintainable as it is03:28
danielssvenl: and yeah, I know the difference in 2D performance.  but I could spend a while making sure that all i8xx owners can actually get X started, or I could make sure that people who owned PCI Radeons or fake-AGP Radeons got every last drop of performance out of their card ... I know which I'd rather.03:29
pitti_daniels: kudos, preview works great on my flatmate's widescreen laptop (it was completely b0rked about a month ago)03:29
danielspitti_: oh cool.   it might well break again after preview. :\  but we'll see.03:30
seb128pitti_: around ?03:30
pitti_seb128: of course :-)03:30
pitti_seb128: currently installing my desktop, that's why I'm at the laptop now03:30
seb128pitti_: <jody> Can you put him in contact with me03:30
seb128pitti_: about the libgnomecups regression03:30
pitti_seb128: oh, is that the g-cups-manager guy?03:30
seb128you can query him on irc.gnome ?03:31
sivangseb128: what regression are we talking about?03:31
pitti_hm, I didn't investigate this problem yet, but I'll do03:31
smurfixBah. language-support-en deps on openoffice.org-l10n-en which deps on openoffice :-/03:31
seb128<pitti> the "Paper" and "Complex" register cards of the properties window are empty03:31
pitti_smurfix: erm, shouldn't03:31
smurfixdoesn't any more03:31
sivangpitti_: lemme know if I can help on those, I am alrady in contact with jody03:31
Kamion Depends: openoffice.org (>> 1.1.1+1.1.2) | language-support-en03:31
pitti_Depends: openoffice.org (>> 1.1.1+1.1.2) | language-support-en03:32
seb128pitti_: short story: I've said to JHM to not update in debian and he has said to jody that's broken03:32
pitti_smurfix: ^ 03:32
pitti_seb128: I join the channel03:32
=== jody [~jody@CPE0000e8e169cd-CM400049342024.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sivanghey jody :-)03:32
pitti_Hi jody 03:33
pitti_jody: welcome to the Ubuntu channel :-)03:33
jodyGood morning lads03:33
jodypitti_: I here you've got problems with libgnomecups 0.3003:33
pitti_jody: I /msg you03:33
jodyblah, 0.2.003:33
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smurfixThis morning the German mirror still had the old dep03:34
danielsok, i'm going back to bed; not feeling very well.03:34
dholbachdaniels: hope you get well soon, good night03:34
smurfixdaniels: take care03:34
pitti_smurfix: it's like this for ages (months) now...03:34
smurfixpitti_: strange03:35
smurfixI'll re-check later03:35
smurfixinstalling the package in aptitude definitely pulled in all the OOo crap03:35
=== sivang --> testing live_cd, brb
jdubhi jody :-)03:36
svenldaniels: but the xresprobe is worth fixing if i provide you a clean patch ?03:39
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ograpitti_, i mailed the link to the announcement to heise and golem shortly after we talked....03:47
pitti_cool, thanks03:48
ograpitti_: but i think heise will ignore us again03:48
ogra(hopefully a golem message forces them)03:49
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sivangbah, no network on the livecd :-( i had to enable it manually, since the /etc/netowrk/intefaces file has only loopback03:54
sivangknown issue?03:54
sivang(i have 2 nics)03:55
ograsivang: a bit late to report that :) preview is already out03:55
Burgundaviathat is why it is a preview03:55
pitti_sivang: worked fine for all my tests 03:56
sivang_livecdpitti_: where is the bug report ? i  will reopen/add comments03:56
sivang_livecdpitti_: (sorry, meaning, what is the bug number)03:56
pitti_sivang_livecd: which bug report?03:56
ogra<pitti_> sivang: worked fine for all my tests 03:56
pitti_sivang_livecd: I checked it on five computers03:57
sivang_livecdpitti_: hmmm03:57
sivang_livecdpitti_: interesting03:57
ograsivang_livecd: i checked on 3 (2 arches)03:57
sivang_livecdpitti_: maybe it's my crazy system03:57
Kamionsivang_livecd: the live CD tries to enable the network automatically, but if it can't for whatever reason then it won't ask you questions03:57
Kamionsivang_livecd: compare with the install CD and see what questions it asks03:57
Kamionthe process is largely the same, but the live CD forces it to be noninteractive03:58
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=== Keybuk wonders whether elmo has got up yet
makomdz: hey.. your post needs moderation :)04:02
KeybukI had images of him psychically connected to the servers, and suddenly sitting up in bed screaming as the release went out and they started to take the strain04:02
pitti_yay, another successful i386 installation04:03
makomdz: no.. it's done04:03
jdubmako: :)04:05
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sivang_livecdpitti_: 17:00utc has passed already? :-)04:07
pittiit's 15:08 UTC04:08
sivang_livecdpitti_: oh, so the preview hasn't been released yet right?04:08
pittinot officially04:08
sivang_livecdpitti_: k04:08
pittihowever, the images are ready04:08
Kamionerm, it has04:08
Kamionit went out officially a couple of hours ago04:08
sivang_livecdKamion: oops04:08
ograsivang_livecd: the announcement got out some hours ago04:08
pitti_Kamion: oh, did it?04:08
=== sivang_livecd is going back to the his installed system, brb
Burgundaviasivang_livecd: suggest you read the top of distrowatch04:09
pitti_Kamion: I thought sabdfl told us sth. like 1800 UTC04:09
sivang_livecdpitti_: yes, that what i recalled from the last email of mdz04:09
sivang_livecdpitti_: or on the channel04:09
Kamionit was going to be 1800, but everything seemed to be ready, and sabdfl said let's do it early to catch the news in all US timezones04:09
sivang_livecdKamion: ok, then off to translating and spreading the announcment , is the draft on the wiki still applicable?04:10
ograKamion: btw, no announcement on http://ubuntulinux.org/ ?04:10
pitti_cool, so I missed the release04:11
=== pitti_ opens a bottle of champagne
Kamionogra: probably should be ...04:11
pitti_so why is the preview release not on the www.ubuntu.com frontpage04:12
Kamionsivang_livecd: yeah, or see ubuntu-announce@ for what actually went out04:12
pitti_or not even in thew news section04:12
ograpitti_: thats what i was asking :)04:12
KamionI'm not sure how the news stuff works04:12
Kamionmako: around?04:12
Kamionsivang_livecd: which of your NICs should have been used?04:13
Kamionsivang_livecd: sorry it went out earlier than intended, we probably should have remembered to contact announcement translators04:14
Kamionsivang_livecd: I've added that to our release checklist04:14
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=== mvo is in town for ~2h
sivangKamion: I can add news04:16
sivangKamion: (as I added the bit about arsetechnica)04:16
smurfixsivang: Mind the typo04:17
sivangsmurfix: in the name? :-)04:17
zulannouncement should be on slashdot if you want alot of publicitiy04:18
smurfixsivang: Yeah, "arsetechnica" looks ... slightly wrong, somehow04:18
sivangsmurfix: well, I don't recall if I did a type on the news bit...sorry :-/04:19
smurfixsivang: The news bit looks OK04:19
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zulhey lamont_r04:19
pittiHi lamont_r 04:19
Kamion"ars technica"04:20
Kamionor maybe no space04:20
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sivangKamion: nothing on u-announce, I'm afraid04:21
KamionI have it on ubuntu-announce@ here04:21
sivangKamion: thanks, I have only the UDU there04:22
=== lamont_r downloads the install CD
jdubseb128: hmm, sabayon release :)04:26
dholbachwere on LWN.net04:26
=== sm-afk is now known as sm
seb128jdub: yeah, I've started to package it04:27
jdubheh :)04:27
jdub"Administrator level permissions are needed to run this program because it can modify system files."04:28
jdub^ ber04:28
seb128jdub: but I need to figure what to do with the user to add and some stuff04:28
smurfixAh, cdimage.u.c is already slowing down. :-/04:28
lamont_r   559190016 100%    1.16MB/s    0:07:38  (1, 100.0% of 1)04:29
lamont_rnot so bad...04:29
smurfixWe should probably encourage people to use BitTorrent if possible ..?04:29
smurfixlamont_r: Where's that from? cdimage?04:30
lamont_rto yesterday's image - only really transferred 39MB... :-0)04:31
lamont_rgiven that the link I'm borrowing right now is only 1.5 mbits/sec....04:32
jbaileyWhat the right bugzilla classification for bugs that affect debian but not us that got propagated to bugzilla?04:32
pittijbailey: RESOLVED/NOTWARTY04:32
jdubseb128: home == /var/lib/sabayon ?04:33
jbaileypitti: Thanks.04:33
lamont_rand one of these days, that'll get renamed to NOTUBUNTU, but probably not before hoary ...04:33
lamont_ror so I've heard rumoured...04:33
seb128jdub: does it need a home ?04:33
makoKamion: yes04:34
ogralamont_r: oh, you talked to the malone guys ? :-P04:34
makoKamion: was caffienating :)04:34
pittihey fabbione, slept well?04:35
lamont_rright.  livecd finished downloading.  heading home04:35
lamont_rb1t3 m3!04:35
fabbionepitti: yeah it was really needed04:36
ograpitti, http://www.golem.de/0503/36865.html04:36
fabbioneelmo: you awake?04:37
sivangreleases.ubuntu.com is down for some reason?04:37
sivang(can't get to it)04:37
fabbionesivang: probably overloaded04:38
maswansivang: I'm currently mirroring from it, so it seems to be ok.04:38
dholbachogra: wow... we have "PowerOC" ISOs as well?04:38
maswanI was thinking that I should have gotten that done earlier though04:38
ogradholbach: only OC 64 yet, but they are hidden somehow....lol04:39
sivangI can ping to it (64 bytes from icmp_seq=1 ttl=49 time=86.0 ms04:39
sivangbut don't get a response, probably overloaded.04:39
=== pitti wants a PowerOC cpu
maswanin an hour or less: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu-releases/04:41
thomsivang: kicked it, thanks04:41
=== maswan heads home, back in a while
dholbachi'll be back later... *wave*04:42
sivangthom: no, thank you :-)04:42
Kamionmako: can we get something about hoary preview on www.ubuntu.com?04:43
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sivangargh, what is that apt-get.org doing there? :-)04:43
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Kamionsivang: that was Mark's addition04:47
Kamion(I believe)04:47
ograi thought elmos04:48
Kamionthat would surprise me04:48
makoKamion: yeah, i'll do that04:48
KamionDoes anyone know how to test the return value of setlocale(LC_ALL, $LANG) from shell?04:49
ograKamion: i just remember his name mentioned in relation to it....04:49
Kamionogra: yes, that was Mark asking him if it was accurate because elmo did a lot of the imports for multiverse04:49
Kamionshortly after warty released IIRC04:49
ograah, ok04:49
KamionI suppose I could do perl -e setlocale or something04:50
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Kamionthere's 'locale -a', but it's in an annoying form04:51
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Kamionand wow, no way am I going to parse the output of 'locale -av'04:52
thomKamion: wimp ;-)04:53
lamontKamion: that's almost parsable04:53
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srbakeranyone know of a gnome app that will let me change between wifi networks?04:58
srbakeror, autosensing a la Rendesvous would be nice :)04:58
Mithrandirsrbaker: networkmanager or netapplet04:58
tsengnetapplet and networkmanager both try to fill that niche04:58
tsengboth fail so far04:58
tsengnet applet is a fair bit more usable04:59
Kamionlamont: if you're INSANE04:59
sabdflnetapplet has some bad side effects if you have multiple wifi networks around04:59
lamontKamion: you have doubts? :-)04:59
sabdflfor me, at least04:59
tsengsabdfl: its not a fan of the ipw2200 drivers either05:00
tsengsince the dont report signal in a standard way05:00
Kamionlamont: ...05:00
=== lamont is preparing to hack around his wifi world with a list of AP's that 'iwlist scan' finds, to take the first one found
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lamontyum. new bind9 bits coming05:04
lamontbut not for hoary, of course./05:04
jdublamont: you mentioned postfix-tls cert love? uses ssl-cert?05:04
mroththe other thing to look at in addition to GUI switching of wifi networks is something that integrates WPA support for end-users in a easy to use way05:05
lamontKamion: daily/current is the preview, yes?05:05
mroth(for next release cycle, of course)05:05
lamontguess I could just verify sums..05:05
lamontmroth: WPA?05:05
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mrothlamont: wifi protected access... standard WEP replacement05:06
maswanSo, feel fre to redirect people here if releases gets too busy: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu-releases/05:06
jdubmroth: NM is getting some of that05:07
jdubmight be ready for hoary+105:07
mroththat would be nice05:07
mrothlot of users out there who dont want to edit a wpa_supplicant.conf file, dont blame em05:07
Kamionlamont: yes05:08
Kamionmaswan: thanks; we need to update www.u.c/download/ somehow too05:08
Kamionmaswan: can you arrange for IndexIgnore in .htaccess to be permitted in that directory, so that jigit and favicon.ico don't show up?05:09
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Tux-RoxAny plans to try and get Beagle into 5.04?05:10
Kamionnot 5.04, maybe 5.1005:10
Tux-RoxWith a back-port repo version available, I hope! :-)05:11
jdubnot in main05:11
jdubit may be in universe05:11
Kamionick, backports05:12
lamontjdub: so how much of hoary are we gonna backport to warty, huh, huh, huh????05:12
sabdfllamont: only the gnome parts05:12
Kamionwe do six-month releases, any more than that is just impatient :-)05:12
mrothcountdown to slashdot post "omg why does hoary not have firefox 1.0.1--it is totally useless!"05:12
Tux-RoxThat would be nice. I've got it going now, but it does have a few issues yet. Hopefully they will get ironed out. Thx for the info!05:12
Kamionmroth: hoary final probably will05:12
jdubbackports are vile and reprehensible :-)05:12
mrothKamion: I know that, you know that, but slashdot posters, well... ;-)05:12
Kamionmroth: this is why I do not read /. :-)05:13
lamontjdub: you know that, I now that... But does that stop them???05:13
Kamionwell, actually, it's more 'cos I once had an entire story dedicated to vilifying me05:13
Kamionbut that's another matter :)05:13
Tux-RoxIt's one thing to read /. objectively, it's quite another to post.....05:13
mrothKamion: haha, what story was that?05:13
jdublamont: the sf.net ones are stunningly broken05:13
jdublamont: have you looked at the version numbers?05:13
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Kamionmroth: some half-baked early-release story about Debian splitting non-free bits out of the doc-linux package05:14
Kamionwhich I maintained at the time05:14
Kamionwe didn't even do the split until a year or more later, but that didn't stop slashdo05:14
sivangKamion: the shrinkwrapped cds are like bussiness card cds?05:15
lamontjdub: I ignore backports other than the ones on people.debian.org/~lamont/woody-updates05:15
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mrothdid mako get the new shipit thing up?  i bet preview is going to generate a lot of cd orders05:17
lamontsabdfl: feeling sorry over the artwork, eh?05:17
sabdfllamont: that part we can forward-port05:17
Kamionsivang: no05:18
Kamionsivang: we don't do netinsts or businesscards at the moment05:18
sivangKamion: ah ok, so what are "shrinkwrapped" cds? :)05:18
Kamionsivang: we may do at some point, but they'll be on an "if you know about them, you can use them" kind of basis, not heavily promoted to avoid confusion with the full CDs05:18
Nafalloall files disassociate their programsettings. is this a local bug?05:18
maswanKamion: Hmm... I'm not sure we have anytihng like that active at all. I'll have to check the config files.05:18
Kamionsivang: "shrinkwrapped" means officially packaged05:18
Kamionsivang: it's by analogy with the plastic packaging you get on all sorts of products that shrinks around the product it's wrapping05:19
sivangKamion: ah ok, thakns :)05:19
sivangKamion: ah right, with vacume used to shrink wrap ;-)05:19
lamontsivang: sometimes, but not always.05:20
lamontsome of it truely is heat-shrinked05:20
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lamontthom: wanna know why you don't get /etc/aliases.db on a fresh install?05:21
=== lamont points at debootstrap
jdubseb128: you were chatting to carlos earlier about i18n issues - any answers for the new .desktop file translations?05:21
seb128the translations are in rosetta but not in the langpacks05:22
Kamionlamont: huh?05:22
thomlamont: oh?05:22
seb128ie: we need to merge them by hand for the moment05:22
Kamion<cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/debootstrap/debootstrap-0.2.45ubuntu25>$ wcgrep aliases05:22
lamontKamion: from deep inside debootstrap somewhere, ls -l /usr/sbin/sendmail*05:22
Kamion<cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/debootstrap/debootstrap-0.2.45ubuntu25>$05:22
lamontyou'll find sendmail.REAL, and sendmail -> /bin/true05:23
Kamionlamont: hah, yeah, that's kind of necessary05:23
lamontand newaliases is, of course, a symlink to sendmail05:23
Kamiondon't want it actually sending mail05:23
maswanKamion: http://churchill.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu-releases/05:23
maswanKamion: like that?05:23
Kamionmaswan: yeah05:23
lamontfortunately, postalias works almost as well.05:23
Kamionmaswan: (this is like really minor nitpicking)05:23
lamontso I don't have to detect debootstrap05:23
maswanKamion: Ok, I'll see if I can get that propagated to the proper machines then05:24
Mithrandirmako: you're on BoingBoing :)05:24
lamont(postalias doesn't use $alias_database, but I _know_ what that says on a fresh install...)05:24
Kamionmaswan: ta05:25
lamontalthough detecting it isn't so hard... just 'newaliases --this-is-fatal': if that succeeds, then you've been diverted.05:25
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lamont"american english" keyboard == pc105?05:26
Mithrandirprobably 104 if you have windows keys05:27
Mithrandir101 if not05:27
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makoMithrandir: again?!05:30
makoMithrandir: dude, this is the second time this week!05:30
lamonthrm.. maybe writing that 4x CD-R at 16x was bad...05:33
makoMithrandir: thanks for telling me :) i'm still feeling the bandwidth crunch from unhappybirthday.com :-/05:34
lamontoh yeah.. wrote 454/515 MB.. :-(05:34
maswanKamion: there, all done: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu-releases/05:35
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maswanRight now I'm having fun in that the gnome livecd generated about 100-200Mbit extra traffic, and the ftp mirror isn't even breathing hard. :)05:36
Kamionmaswan: ta05:37
Mithrandirmako: about the 419 mail.05:37
Mithrandirmako: you rock, but you knew that already. :)05:38
=== lamont considers ordering 1000000 hoary CD's, just to watch mako do a spit take
pittilamont: wanna build a new house with them? :)05:41
Mithrandirlamont: imagine what would happen if he shipped them to you.05:41
Keybukknowing Jane, she'd make sure you got them05:41
Keybukby air drop05:41
silbsall in one big package05:41
=== pitti imagines the crater
Mithrandirlamont: or even if he cut it by a bit, but shipped you 50k05:41
mpt_londonA crate of them on your vege garden05:41
=== lamont notes that his hoary order _is_ smaller than his warty order...
makolamont: try it05:42
makolamont: i've actually made that impossible05:42
makolamont: i am the only person who can order 100000000 cds now05:42
makolamont: you ahev to do it through mine05:42
Mithrandirmako: he'll just trojan your computer05:43
makoMithrandir: well, actually, he could do it from chinstrap probably05:45
makoyou can only place large orders from chinstrap05:45
=== thom orders assufield a billion cds
toresbeI... HATE... ncurses05:45
makothom: we better get those to him quick.. i've heard rumors of increased volcacnic activity in his area05:46
toresbeWhy must it point out my C newbishness with such skill?05:46
thommako: i think the impact of the cds will help the volcano come to life05:46
Mithrandirtoresbe: it has been honed for many years.05:46
toresbeThis piece of code worked. I went out to the kitchen for a dinner. I return.05:47
toresbeProgram does not work.05:47
Mithrandirit's probably an error on line 4605:48
toresbe46: main (int argc, char *argv[] ) :P05:48
Mithrandirgood guess, heh?05:48
=== toresbe removes main
toresbeWell, look! No more segfaults.05:48
lamontmako: nice05:49
lamontejsy frgomrd 05:49
lamontwhat defines 'large'05:49
lamontdamn keyboard05:49
lamonthrm... 300 is large.05:50
fabbionemako: i just updated my order for hoary.. mind to check if you get the proper DAnish chars?05:50
lamontmako: will probably be re-shipping several of them to family members around the country, and then I plan to paper a school or two05:51
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Kamionpitti: have you done the new language packs yet, or do I have time to slip in a change?05:55
pittiKamion: already uploaded a few hours ago :-(05:56
pittiKamion: what do you want to change?05:56
pittiKamion: I can't do update packages until the dpkg bug is fixed05:56
Kamionpitti: about to upload glibc with a new --keep-existing flag to locale-gen05:57
KamionI'm bored of locale-gen generating new locales all the time05:57
pittiKamion: thanks, that's great05:57
Kamionor rather, locales it already has05:57
thomhttp://popcon.ubuntu.com/ ; i hate writing html :P05:57
jdubah, give it to someone you know who loves it :)05:58
jdubLAMONT! thom wants to speak to you!05:58
thomjdub: thanks; i'll mail you the script05:58
thomit's embedded in perl, btw05:58
Kamionit's a bit RED :)05:58
thomjust for extra love05:58
Hannes_nvu :P05:59
pittithom: erm, the white line is amd64?05:59
thomKamion: it just does what the css tells me05:59
jdubthom: hey, maybe steal css from planet ubuntu05:59
thompitti: all05:59
jdubthom: it routes around some plone damage05:59
thomjdub: is that less damaged?05:59
Kamionpitti: it doesn't do removals from locale-archive, so your prerm/postrm scripts or whatever still have to run 'locale-gen' without arguments05:59
pittithom: the key to the right of the diagram has a white background, I can't read the white text on it :-/05:59
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=== jdub handily routes around perl damage in the process ;)
Kamionpitti: and you need to depend on locales (>= 2.3.2.ds1-20ubuntu10)06:00
pittiKamion: okay, I already modify the templates, so that I don't forget about it06:00
jbaileyKamion: Will that do the right thing when locales actually change?06:00
kokejdub: I don't see you in #gnome, do you know what happened to gnome 2.10 spanish release notes?06:01
Kamionjbailey: locales still runs locale-gen without arguments on upgrade, which will regenerate everything from scratch06:01
jbaileyAh, cool.06:01
Kamionit's an option for the case where you're running locale-gen multiple times in sequence without upgrading locales06:01
pittiKamion: please wait with upload06:01
thompitti: yeah06:01
thomjdub: thanks, that looks better06:01
pittiKamion: the langpack just does "/usr/sbin/install-language-locales %LCODE%"06:01
pittiKamion: so you have to change this script in glibc 06:01
Kamionpitti: oh, ok06:02
pittiKamion: I added this abstraction to have the script on one central place06:02
pittiKamion: did you already upload?06:02
Kamionno, not yet06:02
Kamioncool, no dependency needed then06:02
jdubkoke: they were broken when i built them06:03
pittiwell, at least not a new one06:03
jdubkoke: might've been updated, but i haven't done another run06:03
kokejdub: when was that??06:03
pittiKamion: it already depends on the versions that provides install-language-locales06:03
Kamionpitti: indeed06:03
jdubthe current release notes module layout is a bit bong06:03
jdubkoke: mere hours before release06:03
kokemurrayc updated the es.po for me after the release06:04
lamonthrm.. this 5 year old media really sucks06:06
Kamionpitti: whoa, install-language-locales sorts the comment at the top of /etc/locale.gen06:07
Kamionpitti: I'll not fix that now; but maybe you could just remove the sort?06:08
lamontespecially since people might put comments right above various entries in the file, etc.06:08
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mpt_londonKamion: Please add to <http://releases.ubuntu.com/hoary/> a link to the release notes. Perhaps as the first sentence before "Ubuntu is distributed on...", something like: "This is the second major release of Ubuntu, a free operating system based on the Linux kernel. To find out what's new in this release, see the _release notes_."06:08
Kamionit isn't the second major release, it's a preview of the second major release06:09
pittiKamion: which comment?06:09
Kamionpitti: all of them06:09
Kamionpitti: it does 'sort -u /etc/locale.gen'06:09
mpt_londonKamion: sure06:09
=== pitti does not have any comments in /etc/locale.gen
Kamionmpt_london: but yeah; any idea where the release notes are?06:09
pittiKamion: normal #-style ones?06:09
Kamionpitti: yes, locales puts some there by default06:09
mpt_londonKamion: No -- that's part of th reason I'm asking for a link to them ;-)06:09
Kamionok, in a bit :)06:10
pittiKamion: I probably removed them when I played around with this06:10
mpt_londonKamion: Once I know where they are, perhaps I could help with jdub's "a bit bong" problem06:10
Kamionpitti: probably not absolutely trivially fixable, so will defer06:10
pittiKamion: I see, I have to improve the the check 06:10
pittiKamion: I will send you an updated script 06:10
pittiKamion: tomorrow, probably, I still have some RL stuff to do today06:11
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Kamionpitti: ok. I'll do this upload now so we get the live CD speedup06:11
jdubmpt_london: we were talking about the gnome release notes06:11
Hannes_btw does the live cd boot from an -USB-stick?06:12
KamionHannes_: not at the moment I think, but it would probably be possible to make it do so with a bit of hacking06:13
Kamioncasper is fairly generic at least in principle06:13
Kamionbut you won't be able to write it to a USB stick and have it Just Work06:13
Hannes_as it would be nice to use it from there06:13
Hannes_or could you install it there with the install-disk?06:15
Kamiontheoretically, but there are a number of bugs surrounding that06:15
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Kamionyou can certainly try it though, would probably only involve some minor bootloader hacking at worst06:15
mpt_londonjdub: Well, with all due respect, there's lots about gnome that's a bit bong ;-)06:16
Kamioneasier than making the live CD boot from there :)06:16
Hannes_but it would be good to have the "system check" (as in live cd) as you use it in different places06:16
Hannes_Kamion: yes, i know06:16
fabbionemjg59: ping?06:16
KamionHannes_: yeah06:16
jdubKamion: ubuntu release notes haven't been officially published yet06:16
jdubKamion: mako has some autobuilt samples, but that's it06:17
fabbionenow that i have hibernate my machine... how do i bring it back to life?06:17
Hannes_fabbione: power button on my machine06:17
Kamionfabbione: switch it on06:17
mpt_londonjdub: What was that that was in the topic before, then? Was that just a draft?06:17
jdubi don't know06:17
Kamionfabbione: hibernate is "save all state to disk, tell initrd to resume from there, power off"06:18
fabbioneit never did a poweroff06:18
Hannes_Kamion: one + with the usbstick is that you could (mabye) save to it06:18
fabbioneand pushing the power button has the effect of a bit of disk activity and that's it06:18
makojdub: i'm trying to find context06:18
makojdub: what i have i built?06:18
jdubmako: release notes samples06:19
makouserlinux stuff, etc?06:19
mpt_londonah, here it is http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DraftHoaryPreviewAnnouncement06:19
makojdub: oh yes that too06:19
jdubmpt_london: hoary preview is announced and shipped06:19
Kamionlinking to the actual archived announcement would be better than that06:19
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dokojdub: so it's ok upload fixes again?06:20
jdubdoko: yes06:20
travail101any chance of getting linux-wlan-ng added to the live and install CDs?06:20
mpt_londonjdub: I realize that, but if it's announced and shipped, there should be release notes somewhere ...06:20
Kamiondoko: I just uploaded glibc, so I certainly hope so ;)06:20
jdubmpt_london: the release notes are targeted for the final release06:20
jdubmpt_london: mako will point you to in-progress samples in a moment06:21
travail101yes no?06:21
Kamionjdub: they're linked to from the draft announcement06:21
jdubKamion: don't know what i'm explaining it for then ;)06:21
Kamiontravail101: there's been a bit of discussion about it; is it just the userspace tools, or kernel modules as well?06:22
Kamiontravail101: if the latter, they should be integrated into our standard kernels instead06:22
Kamiontravail101: I do agree on the former, but don't know whether there's really time before our next release now06:22
travail101the drivers are kernel modules...06:22
makompt_london: i'm building the new one right now.. give it like 5 minutes06:23
Kamionyeah, we require all our supported kernel modules to be in the linux-image-* or linux-restricted-modules-* packages (depending on licensing)06:23
makompt_london: not building, but downloading and installing06:23
travail101and are of course necessary for Prism2-2.5 card owners to be online with the liveCD06:23
fabbionetravail101: not for hoary.. they will be in hoary+106:23
Kamiontravail101: right, I have a USB stick that requires them06:23
KamionI thought PCI cards worked with the standard Ubuntu kernel though06:24
travail101that's what kept me from using th liveCD as my preferred rescue disk =P06:24
travail101Kamion, I also have a USB stick... the D-link DWL-12206:24
Kamionfabbione: hmm. actually prism2_usb is already in the kernel06:24
travail101Kamion, it is?06:25
Kamionsee wlan-ng-prism2-usb.dpatch06:25
KamionI think it's just a matter of userspace tools06:25
travail101Kamion, in the vanilla kernel, or the ubuntu kernel?06:25
KamionUbuntu kernel06:25
travail101not in worty though right?06:25
Kamion$ dpkg -c /mirror/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.10/linux-image-2.6.10-4-386_2.6.10-25.1_i386.deb | grep prism2_usb06:25
Kamion-rw-r--r-- root/root     85073 2005-03-09 21:43:26 ./lib/modules/2.6.10-4-386/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/prism2/prism2_usb.ko06:25
Kamion$ dpkg -c /mirror/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source- | grep prism2_usb06:26
Kamion-rw-r--r-- root/root     84022 2004-10-12 15:19:14 ./lib/modules/
Kamionyes, it's in the Warty kernel06:26
Kamiondunno about the live CD06:26
Kamionthe Warty live CD was built in a strange way, so it's hard for me to guess at exactly what's on it06:26
travail101ah, well I know that modprobe prism2_usb doesn't work on it...06:27
travail101and I had to use the not so elegent Knoppix to save my computer06:27
KamionI'm pretty sure I got my prism2_usb stick to work with just a Hoary install06:27
Kamionand linux-wlan-ng06:27
Kamionjdub: opinions on linux-wlan-ng in main for hoary? we've discussed it a few times ...06:28
Kamiongetting it to work in the installer would be, er, interesting at this stage, but we could at least make it workable in the installed system06:28
travail101even if it doesn't automatically set it all up for you, just having it there would be nice for people who can plug in wired to their network whenever they want, or at all06:29
lamontwarty livecd kernel is 2.6.7+stuff - it's not my friend06:30
travail101but since hotplug will load the drivers, couldn't that initiated a sequence to setup the user tool/scripts and all that06:30
travail101can= can't06:30
travail101bad typo, bad bad typo06:30
kokejdub: about gnome spanish release notes...06:31
koke<murrayc> Tell him I'll do it if he wants.06:31
jdubKamion: on phone atm06:31
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pvanhoofI'll just copypaste it here :)06:32
pvanhoof I've rebuild the software thats available on ubuntu using qc-usb-modules in a more-correct-for-2.6.x kernels build-environment that will be more easy to package and distribute06:32
pvanhoof is this the right channel to tell packagers about it?06:32
pvanhoof this is a small wiki about it06:32
pvanhoofdholbach pvanhoof: i believe you have a better audience for kernel matters on #ubuntu-devel 06:32
pvanhoofso ...06:32
lamonttravail101: warty live doesn't use hotplug, iirc06:33
jdubKamion: off the cuff rigid and boring answer is a pretty strong "no" ;)06:33
travail101well warty live doesn't even have the drivers06:33
travail101so this would be for hoary live06:33
=== jdub was intending to be on the phone for a while, but now isn't. grr.
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Kamionjdub: thought so06:33
jdubKamion: ignoring installer for the moment, does it involve any integration work, or just shipping bits?06:34
Kamionjdub: afaik, just shipping; people can install it if they need it06:34
Kamionjdub: ideally it'd all be there by default, but the perfect is the enemy of the good :-)06:35
Kamionjdub: I can test it out with universe, though06:35
jdubKamion: anything scary about installing it by default?06:35
Kamionit installs if-pre-up.d and if-pre-down.d scripts, and stuff like that; makes it not a trivially obvious "yes"06:36
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travail101still talking about linux-wlan-ng? or something else?06:36
Kamiontravail101: yes, linux-wlan-ng06:36
jdubtravail101: yeah06:36
travail101it's not hard to install... set up...06:37
Kamionjdub: I also suspect it's not entirely 2.6ish, but I'm not sure of my ground there06:37
jdubKamion: haven't there been maintenance woes upstream, too?06:37
Kamionjdub: ah, I don't know anything about that06:37
travail101ubuntu doesn't come with a setup build environment does it?06:37
Kamiontravail101: apt-get install build-essential06:38
tsenghow many cards really arent supported by prism2 now06:38
Kamiontseng: USB devices are not06:38
tsengor orinoco06:38
jdubthe big score for wlan-ng is ppc users stuck with usb wifi06:38
Kamiontseng: at least, you need userspace tools to make them work06:38
Kamionthe 12" lot06:38
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Kamion(no PCMCIA on the 12" powerbook ...)06:38
jdub2nd class machines...06:39
jdubmy toilet seat is still grumbling along ;)06:39
Kamionreally it would be better if somebody figured out how to do the linux-wlan-ng integration in a nice hotpluggish way; it's weird and complex atm06:40
travail101you could check out the knoppix linux-wlan-ng stuff they even have a configuration script... but it requires human input, that could be changed though I suspect, and you could figure out dhcp for it... I still haven't tried to get my to use DHCP06:40
Kamiontravail101: we already have a package in universe06:40
Kamionit's a question of promoting it, if it works and is supportable06:40
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=== T-None is now known as T-Bone
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travail101Kamion, but a downloadable package does no good without internet06:41
Kamion  * New upstream prerelease (Closes: #269678)06:41
Kamion -- Bradley Bell <btb@debian.org>  Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:42:48 -070006:41
Kamiontravail101: er, "promoting it" => putting it on the CD06:41
Kamiontravail101: you are preaching to the choir ;)06:41
=== Kamion is burning a live CD to try it out
Kamionboot with normal wireless PCMCIA card, download linux-wlan-ng.deb, remove normal wireless card, insert USB stick ...06:42
Kamionin fact this USB stick doubles as a disk and a wireless device, so I could also put the .deb on the disk06:43
=== T-Bone notices that he's been highlighted while away, but can't figure why, it's out oh his scrollback :P
travail101i should learn more about scripting, and hotplug/coldplug06:44
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travail101how do you make the system broadcast for DHCP in the background?06:44
travail101i want that in my Gentoo system...06:44
travail101so it doesn't stop the boot process just to find out I'm not plugged into the LAN06:44
travail101a minute later06:45
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jdubthom: around?06:45
thomjdub: ya06:45
schweebtravail101: that's more of a #ubuntu question06:45
jdubthom: so the ff theme stuff, you planning to do that for 1.0.1 upload?06:46
travail101is it?06:46
thomwhich bits?06:46
jdubthom: (not kill default theme, etc)06:46
travail101it's... kinda a development question no... only devs should no how to set it up06:46
jdubthom: (or not display default theme credits)06:46
thomjdub: oh, right06:46
jdubthom: so, i really think the industrial theme is better06:47
jdubthom: the icons are much sexier, better coverage, etc.06:47
thomi *really* don't06:47
thomi'll look at using the icons06:47
jdubthom: and it does use the gtk theme06:47
jdubi don't get which bits you don't like06:47
jdubit's basically good gtk+ theme usage and nicer icons06:47
jdubit actually looks HIGgy06:48
lamontpitti: btw, it's not clear on the keyboard chooser whether or not one should hit shift, stick to only unshifted keys, or what...06:48
pittilamont: right. smurfix?06:48
smurfixYou should hit the key which has one of the symbols displayed.06:49
smurfixIt'll complain about shift keys (I should probably teach it not to).06:49
thomi'll try it again06:50
jdubthom: let me know what is arse :-)06:50
lamontpitti: oops... er. smurfix 06:50
smurfixlamont: ;-)06:50
travail101well apparently it's a mystery because no one ever knows how to do it... not in #ubuntu, #ubuntu-devel, #gentoo... maybe i'll try #knoppix...06:51
=== smurfix monitors his bittorrent clients
lamonttravail101: my laptop just checks to see if it's plugged in before it tries to get an IP06:52
smurfixUploading >1 Mbit/sec right now. Cool, lots of bandwidth left here.06:53
lamontiface eth0 inet dhcp06:53
lamont        pre-up mii-tool eth0 | grep -q 'link ok'06:53
seb128thom: around ?06:53
thomseb128: my eyes are square, but the rest of me is round, yes06:54
travail101lamont, hmm... well how do you do that then?06:54
seb128thom: we want to quick mozilla to universe, right ?06:54
travail101lamont, in a script?06:54
thomseb128: i'd love to; not sure if we can for hoary06:54
lamonttravail101: in /etc/network/interfaces06:54
lamonttravail101: lets move to #ubuntu06:55
thomseb128: i guess evo is the biggest blocker06:55
seb128thom: looking to build evo with it06:55
=== Kamion accidentally drags a .deb onto his panel
KamionI'm rather surprised that works06:55
thomseb128: can't you make the ximian folk use gnutls? ;-)06:55
Kamionseb128: pitti surveyed -users, we decided we'd leave it in main for hoary06:55
seb128thom: the issue is that it uses heimdal-dev and firefox uses libkrb5-dev ... 06:56
seb128Kamion: k06:56
thomoh, cripes06:56
seb128both conflict, so we need to change one ...06:56
seb128any idea on which one is better to pick ?06:57
seb128jbailey: here ?06:57
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thomseb128: none at all06:58
seb128jbailey has some ideas on that IIRC06:58
thomi suspect changing firefox to heimdal is saner, but i really don't know06:58
seb128anybody with an opinion on that ? jdub ?06:59
jbaileyseb128: Eh?06:59
seb128jbailey: read the log :p06:59
seb128jbailey: I'm sure you have an idea on that :)06:59
jbaileyOn kerberos versus heimdal?06:59
jdubseb128: no opinion here.07:00
jbaileyOpinion yes, raw fact based "this is the right way", no.07:00
Kamionsabdfl: hooray, report on ubuntu-users that the IPW2100 kill switch was detected during install07:00
seb128either way we should build evo and firefox with the same07:00
jbaileyMy experiences with heimdal were not good, and I've deployed krb5 in alot of places.07:00
jbaileydebian-edu uses krb all over the place.07:00
jbaileyMight make the most sense to match what they have.07:01
seb128k, so rather krb07:01
sabdflKamion: that's worth all the beer i can buy you on the 6th07:01
Kamionsabdfl: ubuntu-devel, rather; http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-March/005379.html07:02
KamionI should be careful about giving you URLs ;)07:04
jdubtime for jdub|tv adult edition then?07:04
maswanyay nekkid people! :)07:05
maswanjdub: ass.mpeg? :)07:05
jdubdon't have one of those07:05
jdubbut i have a pantsoff.mpeg ;)07:05
Kamionoh, wow, GNOME does the one nifty-UI-thing about Windows I always liked07:06
maswanjdub: oh? ass.mpeg was the name I got mmarker's ass signing. :)07:06
Kamiondrag from file manager into terminal, path gets pasted into terminal07:06
lamonthrm... damn gstreamer07:06
jdubi haven't been signed yet07:06
jdubthough i signed george07:06
jdubKamion: we love bling terminal crack07:07
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maswanwell, there's a theme for the release party? or kickoff?07:07
jdubKamion: you ever used skey stuff with ssh?07:07
Kamionjdub: no07:07
jdubKamion: turns out that was red hat's vpn solution for a long time07:07
jdubKamion: so g-t has a dingus clicky thing and entry dialogue for skey07:07
jbaileyseb128: <stockholm> i am useing MIT now, since it is nicely integrated with AFS, and Sam is developer in both effords and is pretty accessible and helpfull07:08
Kamionjdub: geez07:08
jdubevery now and then someone suggests removing it07:08
amusabdfl: oh no x stuff anymore? we are planning a monthly kubuntu-calendar, something like http://www.kulma.org/linux/kde/kone.php?categ=kubuntu&kuva=konqi_together_blue.jpg07:08
jduband a thousand voices cry out in anguish07:08
jduball wearing red fedoras ;)07:08
jdubamu: do it! :)07:09
torkeljbailey: on the other hand arla (the other afs) works better with heimdal07:09
thomjdub: have you seen Terminal.app ? File/Connect To Server/SSH -> list of servers broadcasting mdns ssh details07:09
jdubamu: sabdfl mentioned those to me the other night07:09
Mithrandiramu: nekkid dragons!07:09
seb128jbailey: k, thanks07:09
sabdflamu: those are excellent :-)07:09
jdubamu: hey, we should swap notes on how to make calendar images available for each desktop07:09
amuyeah that cool stuff :) i like the idea too much  07:10
sivangsabdfl: I'd love for the nakkid people to come back :)07:10
jdubamu: for gnome, you just need an xml file in the right dir07:10
jdubsivang: nakkid as in knackered? :)07:10
jbaileytorkel: There I'm just quoting why debian-edu has been going with mit.07:10
Riddelljdub: and it automatically uses that background?07:10
sabdflask jdub he has all the original images and gets to make the monthly selection07:10
amujdub: okido :) asap 3.4 is in i've little more time for those things   07:11
dholbachseb128: only one balsa-old-gtkhtml-crack left on the list ;-)07:11
truluxpitti: hey Martin07:11
truluxpitti: how's going there?07:11
jbaileytorkel: Since they're probably the biggest user of kerberos in the Debian space, I'd like to match what they do in the absence of any of pulling reason to go one way or the other.07:11
jdubRiddell: if you've specifically chosen the 'monthly' background, which is kind of like an alias07:11
jdubamu: ok, cool07:11
jdubRiddell: so if you look at ubuntu-calendar-march07:12
jdubRiddell: there's two images and one xml file07:12
jdubthe xml file describes the images and how they're used as the background07:12
torkeljbailey: I know, I was just raising my voice for the other camp :-)07:12
jdububuntu-calendar includes one xml file, which defines the monthly calendar07:12
jdubwhich points to symlinks07:13
jdubto the current one07:13
seb128dholbach: cool07:13
dholbachjdub: gnome-bluetooth uploaded too07:13
jdubRiddell: if we can do something similar for kde, or at least symlink them into a default backgrounds directory or something, that'd be rad.07:14
jdubdholbach: awesome, thanks!07:14
dholbachjdub: de rien07:14
jdubwe'll have to do a MOTU cheer at UDU07:14
dholbachYEAH :-)07:14
amuRiddell: you know basse? probably he can create a first background for kubuntu? it will rock :) 07:14
Riddellamu: yep07:14
torkeljbailey: both heimdal and MIT krb are borken in differnt ways, so I guess the best thing is to do a random pick between them, and if it works stay with it ;-)07:14
Kamiontravail101: hmm. so how am I supposed to bring this interface up again? it's hanging on DHCP here07:14
Riddelljdub: how does the ubuntu-calendar.jpg symlink get made?07:15
jdubRiddell: that's in ubuntu-calendar07:15
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jbaileytorkel: Yup.  And at least just pick one. =)07:15
torkeljbailey: yeah07:16
Riddelljdub: ah, and ubuntu-calander gets updated each month with new symlinks and new depends.  sorted.07:16
travail101Kamion, I've never tried it with DHCP07:16
jdubRiddell: if i integrate the required kde changes into u-c, i can tidy up my calendar package build scripts so we can all use them07:16
amujdub: good idea07:17
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Riddelljdub: KDE just uses images and .desktop files in /usr/share/wallpaper07:18
jdubah yes, the universal metadata solution ;)07:19
travail101Kamion, after loading the modules I run these 4 things07:19
travail101wlanctl-ng wlan0 lnxreq_ifstate ifstate=enable07:20
travail101wlanctl-ng wlan0 lnxreq_autojoin ssid=SMC authtype=opensystem07:20
travail101ifconfig wlan0 netmask broadcast
travail101route add default gw
jdubcan you clag me one of the .desktop files?07:20
Kamiontravail101: DHCP isn't really relevant, no static config either07:20
Kamiontravail101: oh, ok, I'll try that07:20
jon1012(there is an issue in the last gnome vfs update I think... :-/)07:21
travail101Kamion, and of course, edit to your network... I don't know what the command line stuff is for setting a WEP key i haven't set WEP up yet on my network07:21
KamionI don't believe in WEP; anyone who wants to drive up to my house and use my network is welcome to, and if they abuse it I can go out and beat them up07:21
jon1012(since loading of an URI into a pixbuf using either gnomeui functions or program functions (in ghtumb or appliworks) doesn't work anymore)07:21
MithrandirI tend to just block them in the router, but else same policy.  Works fine07:22
Riddelljdub: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/All-Good-People-1.jpg.desktop07:22
jdubKamion: the cops would have a field day with that one07:22
T-Bonehey Mithrandir ! Wassup? :)07:22
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MithrandirT-Bone: dinner. :)07:22
travail101Kamion, that's very... humanitarian of you ;)07:22
jdubRiddell: thansk07:23
travail101share alike right07:23
T-BoneMithrandir: damn ;)07:23
T-BoneMithrandir: have a good one then :)07:23
jdubRiddell: are there any other attributes, such as background colour, whether to stretch or not, etc?07:23
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jdubRiddell: a doc reference would be uber special07:23
travail101it's less dangerous on linux networks anyway, cuz the average dude driving by wouldn't be able to screw with anything on your system... they'd just be able to surf the web and download stuff07:23
Kamionaha, there it goes07:24
=== sm is now known as sm-afk
travail101Kamion, working?07:24
Kamionjdub: ok, linux-wlan-ng works, just takes a bit of hacking07:24
Kamionneeds better integration, but a wiki page would probably suffice for the time being07:24
travail101Kamion, I added those 4 lines to my startup script supposedly their own Scripts do all that work, but they don't work for me or I just don't know how to use them07:25
mdzaw, no slashdotting?07:25
Kamiontravail101: no can do on a live cd ;)07:25
sabdflhey mdz07:25
zulmdz: its not even on the main page07:25
jdubRiddell: also, does kde store the .desktop or the image as configuration?07:25
Riddelljdub: how do you mean?07:26
travail101Kamion, well no... a user-input script would work on a liveCD though, hotplug can load the drives, the script can tell it the IPs and turn on the device07:26
travail101Kamion, a script burried out of site in either the panel menu... or even loading a console07:27
mdzzul: it's not even on the linux page07:27
jdubRiddell: what does the configuration setting store, a reference to the .desktop file, or to the image?07:27
travail101and typing linux-wlan-ng-setup07:27
Kamiontravail101: much, much better to make it automatically worked when plugged in07:27
Riddelljdub: oh, to the image07:27
Kamionin this day and age there's no justification for writing a setup script but not going the extra mile and making it hotplugged07:28
jdubRiddell: weird! gnome does the same thing. kinda bongtastic.07:28
travail101Kamion, better yes... but you need to figure out DHCP for that07:28
travail101oh you mean making the setup script automatically start?07:28
Riddelljdub: I posted to xdg about a wallpaper standard but thos wasn't interested so it didn't go anywhere07:28
Kamiontravail101: yes07:28
travail101not automatigically configure?07:28
Kamiontravail101: DHCP really should not be remotely hard07:29
Kamiontravail101: it's at a higher layer07:29
travail101ah, ok, well yes do that then07:29
Kamionthere is no reason why static configuration should work and DHCP not07:29
travail101and when you get these little scripts done, email them to me so I can use them in my Gentoo07:29
KamionI'd rather put them in Ubuntu :P07:29
jdubRiddell: hrm, can't find any info about extra attributes in google; know of any docs?07:29
travail101Kamion, can't you do both... Ubuntu, my inbox...07:29
travail101I want them in Ubuntu live also07:30
Kamionyou can grab it from Ubuntu :)07:30
travail101but only so I can scrap knoppix07:30
KamionI don't plan to do this particularly soon, I have many other things to do07:30
Riddelljdub: what sort of extra attributes?07:30
jdubRiddell: whether the image is stretched or centred, background colours, etc.07:31
wasabi__So what's the word on ifplug or similar?07:31
Riddelljdub: there are none, kcontrol takes a wild guess based on the image size but otherwise uses whatever the person tells it to07:31
wasabi__I had heard some rumblings of using that by defaul.t07:31
travail101Kamion, oh btw, the first two lines I would imagine would need to be done before try dhcp...07:32
Kamionwow, this USB stick gets hot when used as wireless07:32
schweebwasabi__: I'm a fan of laptop-net myself07:32
Kamiontravail101: yeah07:32
wasabi__And, as I sit here, waiting for my network interfaces to not configure, I am curious. ;)07:32
mdzMithrandir: how are your torrents doing?07:32
Kamiontravail101: but the linux-wlan-ng scripts already do those07:32
travail101Kamion, so have you tried DHCP yet?07:32
travail101Kamion, oh... mine dont...07:32
travail101but yes these wireless sticks do get hot07:32
KamionI did, but I was a muppet and tried 'dhclient eth0' I think, which is obviously wrong07:32
travail101good job07:33
Kamionand then shut down before thinking about it07:33
jdubRiddell: ok, thanks07:33
Kamionbooting up the live CD again now07:33
Mithrandirmdz: unsure as I went home and forgot to screen them.  When I left about one hour ago, I was pushing ~1.5MB/sec07:33
jdubRiddell: what are the different ImageTypes?07:34
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Riddelljdub: pixmap or scaleable07:35
_d4vidhi all07:35
jdubala svg07:35
Riddelljdub: pixmap or scalaable07:35
Riddellscalable I seem to have spelt it07:35
jdubwhy the distinction?07:36
Riddelljdub: not everyone has librsvg support compiled in07:36
jdubah, so it won't show scalable;07:36
Riddelljdub: if you don't have the support no07:36
jdubbut shouldn't the backgrounds thingy sort that out by mimetype?07:36
jdubthis looks good07:36
jdubi will do another -march package with the kde metadata07:37
jdubfor you to test07:37
Riddelljdub: ubercool07:37
schweebtseng: around?07:37
Kamionoh, that -march, not the gcc option07:37
schweebtseng: you pkg monodoc too?07:38
tsengi take what the debian mono team gives me most of the time07:38
T-Boneelmo: bdale just uplaoded a new version of efibootmgr, I suppose you just need to sync it into Ubuntu, or do I need to upload it separately? It fixes a bug WRT EFI specs, fwiw07:39
tsengand lamont does magic voodoo to sideport it07:39
schweebtseng: monodoc-browser needs some deps added... for the gtk and glade cil pkgs07:39
travail101maybe I should start making packages for other systems on my gentoo =P07:39
tsengis it fixed in debian?07:39
tsengdo you have a fix?07:39
jon1012Just a proposal, would it be possible to make an human-like .gtkrc for gtk 1.x apps ?07:39
travail101Kamion, did it work with DHCP this time?07:39
schweebtseng: I'll check debian... gimme a sec07:40
lamonttseng: what magic?  I should only have to do that to break the cyclical build-dep... which hopefully _GOES_AWAY_ once done the first time...07:40
lamontthat is, if revision X can't build X+1, then it's a bug in X+1...07:40
tsengwell, 1.1.x will be different07:40
tsengmcs + mono are one source package07:41
lamontthat'll helpo07:41
tsengand it bootstraps itself07:41
travail101Kamion, do you have your wireless setup with DHCP on your system?07:41
schweebtseng: nope, debian doesn't have those deps either07:41
lamontthe issue comes in when someone adds a new feature to a language, and then immediately uses it in the source that builds the binary that understands the new feature...07:41
schweebtseng: libgtk-cil libgtk2.0-cil libglade-cil libglade2.0-cil07:42
dholbachis there a possibility to kick a just uploaded package? i typed 0.1.4ubuntu1 instead of 0.1-4ubuntu1 *arg*07:42
schweebunsure as to whether there's a diff between the libxxx and libxxx2.007:43
lamontdholbach: ouch07:43
lamontand the answer is pretty much 'no'07:43
=== dholbach is so stupid
schweebtseng: also, I'd recommend adding those as recommends or suggested on mono itself07:44
=== T-Bone notices elmo is currently away, redirects his question to Kamion / mdz
tsengmono suggests gtk-sharp?07:44
=== dholbach sees 0.1.4ubuntu1.really.is.0.1-4ubuntu1 before his eyes
tsengnot really..07:44
jdubRiddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/hoary/ubuntu-calendar-march_5.03_all.deb07:44
=== dholbach bites in his desk *grmbl*
mdzT-Bone: if it's in Debian, it can be synched07:44
schweebtseng: makes sense to me *shrug* most people who want mono will want gtk on ubuntu...07:45
T-Bonemdz: it's just been uploaded (eg 5' ago)07:45
T-Bonemdz: (in debian, that is)07:45
Kamiontravail101: haven't quite checked yet07:45
Kamiontravail101: I use DHCP everywhere07:45
mdzT-Bone: it can be synched once it's in the Debian archive07:45
tsengschweeb: meh, so does libc6 recommend gtk+? it doesnt follow07:45
T-Bonemdz: roger that. I'll poke around when that happens07:45
schweebalright, fine then07:45
lamontT-Bone: and the sync is a request to elmo/jdub/mdz explaining why07:46
lamonts/request/email request/07:46
mdzsince it's ia64-specific I wont't be picky07:46
T-Bonelamont: got it07:46
elmodholbach: I removed it - but generally lamont is right, the answer is you can't07:46
T-Bonemdz: i hoped so :)07:46
lamontmdz: true enough07:46
lamontdholbach: you owe elmo dinner07:46
dholbachelmo: oh thank you very much07:46
T-Bonelol, at least :)07:46
tsengspeaking of syncing, elmo could you please sync f-spot 0.0.10 at your convenience?07:46
travail101Kamion, hmm... I might be overlooking something very obvious, but i can't get the wlan-ng scripts to do anything usefull but load the driver, which hot plug does fine07:46
elmotseng: done07:47
tsengthanks :)07:47
seb128elmo: poppler in NEW 07:47
lamontdholbach: to put it more accurately, if you can beg/plead before cron.hourly gets to it, and elmo has time, then he can remove it with very little pain.  The issue is that cron.hourly runs every 5 minutes, and that really means you have an average of 2.5 min to run in circles, screaming and shouting07:48
elmoseb128: yeah, I'm test-building all the stuff in NEW now07:48
schweebtseng: but as far as I can tell, there's no virtual package that installs the commonly used -cils that mono is generally distributed with07:48
lamontonce cron.hourly runs, it's much more annoying and painful07:48
dholbachlamont: that's what i thought07:48
seb128elmo: k, thanks07:48
lamontand risky07:48
tsengschweeb: they are a seperate package07:48
dholbachlamont: i already had a look for a new upstream 0.1.5 version or something :-)07:48
tsengwhy would there be a virtual, you need granular depends07:48
Riddelljdub: works good07:49
tsengI understand your bug, I will look at it07:49
T-Bonemdz: it has just hit unstable (efibootmgr): http://packages.qa.debian.org/e/efibootmgr/news/1.html07:49
Riddelljdub: going to do a new ubuntu-calendar package too?07:49
lamontdholbach: yeah, it's a bitch to have to go plead with upstream for a really illogical next-version number... :-)07:49
tsengas far as further changes schweeb.. not right now07:49
T-Bonemdz: err no07:49
T-Bonemdz: forget what i said07:49
dholbachlamont: hehe... :)07:49
lamontelmo: speaking of test builds..... it's past wed... :-)07:49
=== T-Bone should gets himself a new pair of eyeballs
dholbachlamont: and this 1:<version>-stuff looks damn ugly too07:49
lamontdholbach: I loathe epocs07:50
schweebtseng: consider this situation... someone has an app that says it requires glade sharp... do a search on "glade sharp" you get nothing07:50
dholbachlamont, elmo: learnt my lesson - thanks07:50
dholbachok need to run to she shop... brb07:50
=== lamont has actually had discussions with upstream wrt monotonically increasing version numbers, and why we should care... :-)
schweebtseng: don't care if it makes hoary or not... just suggesting07:50
tsengits in apt-cache search libglade07:51
schweebyes yes, I know that works07:51
tsengif someone is building packages, or from source, they should be sufficiently clued07:52
tsengor headed there fast07:52
tsengits not a normal ubuntu user use case07:52
tsengsorry, dont mean to argue at length about it im more interested in the real bug07:52
jdubRiddell: wasn't planning to upload these07:53
tsenghey thats probably it07:53
tsengDepends: for monodoc-browser doesnt roll in ${net:Depends}07:53
jdubRiddell: u-c is just a variation on the theme ;)07:53
tsenger, it does looking at wrong one07:53
Kamiontravail101: DHCP works just fine, just do 'dhclient wlan0'07:54
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jdubRiddell: actually, i will. in hoary only though.07:55
travail101Kamion, thanx07:55
travail101I'm gonna reboot at see if I can get this stuff to act the way I like it07:55
mjg59fabbione: Hello?07:55
schweebtseng: I suppose I'll argue my point with you in about a month, after release...I think it'd be nice for those pkgs to at least include the name "sharp" somewhere in them, seeing as that's what most users will think to apt-cache search for, as it's the real name of the assembly07:56
amuKamion: whats about suspend with the usb-wlan on ppc? it resumes also? 07:56
elmomdz: okay to do seed syncage type stuff again?07:57
mdzelmo: yeah, what's pending?07:58
mdzgv was the only thing left the last time I looked07:58
mdzpolypaudio is probably there now07:58
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mdzjdub: do you have any post-preview uploads pending?  (e.g., the cursors thing)08:01
Kamionok, linux-wlan-ng works fine if I put this in /etc/network/interfaces:08:02
Kamioniface wlan0 inet dhcp08:02
Kamion        wireless_essid Heresy08:02
elmopolypaudio-clients                        | polypaudio                      | Supported seed 08:02
Kamion        wireless_mode managed08:02
Kamionand then 'ifup wlan0'08:02
KamionI think we should put linux-wlan-ng in ship08:03
pittiKamion: that really works now? last time I tried it didn't; cool08:03
elmowhich is err, odd, since it's not08:03
Kamionamu: suspend-to-ram doesn't work on the test system; I'll try it on the powerbook later08:03
amuKamion: thx, would be interessting08:04
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mrothhas preview been slashdotted yet?08:05
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=== Kamion fixes live CD performance problems when $LANG isn't in the big 11 or big 13 or whatever
T-Boneelmo/mdz: efibootmgr 0.5.1-1 has hit the archive.08:07
mdzelmo: it's in kubuntu/supported, fixing08:08
mdzmroth: no08:08
mdzelmo: fixed08:09
mrothit'll be interesting to see how many downloads there are when it does08:09
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jdubRiddell: same url, grab both of those u-c packages08:10
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Riddelljdub: works good08:13
jdubRiddell: cool08:13
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kokemvo: I've just replied your mail08:15
mvokoke: thanks08:15
kokemvo: you can just look at http://www.amedias.org/~koke/arch/ for koke@amedias.org--2005/gnome-app-install--mainline--0.108:16
kokeI'm learning arch at last!! :)08:16
mvokoke: can I just merge from it ?08:16
mvokoke: ah, join the club of arch lovers ;) 08:16
kokeI guess that :)08:16
kokebase-0 is the same than Ross' branch, and there are three patches, which are the whole fix :)08:17
kokeubuntu-doc $ LC_ALL=C xml2po  -o foo.pot release-notes.xml08:18
kokeViolacin de segmento08:18
kokeThis is very strange08:18
kokefirst, the error translated, and then a python script saying segmentation fault without a trace08:19
kokeany python guru could give me some light?? :)08:19
jdubkoke: are you using cvs g-d-u?08:19
kokejdub: yes08:19
kokeit's the same with the hoary one or the cvs one08:19
jdubwell, that's my troubleshooting help over ;)08:19
kokejdub: do you know the nick of Danilo egan at irc.gnome.org?08:21
jdubdanilo usually, i think08:23
kokehmm, then he's not online :)08:23
MithrandirT-Bone: I think you owe me beer.08:25
MithrandirT-Bone: look at nekkid:~root/lib32gcc1*deb08:25
HiddenWolfugh, pity we didn't get slashdotted08:27
Mithrandirmdz: uploading new ia32-libs which should fix ooo on ia64; sounds good?08:28
Mithrandirit shouldn't change anything on amd6408:28
mdzMithrandir: sure08:28
Kamionooo-amd64 too?08:29
mvokoke: I merged your tree, thanks08:29
kokegreat :))08:29
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MithrandirKamion: ooo-amd64 is already working.08:29
KamionMithrandir: needs ia64 added to Architecture though I thought?08:30
MithrandirKamion: already there.08:30
mdzooo-amd64 is already building on ia64?08:30
Mithrandirmdz: ought to work fine now.08:30
Kamion+Architecture: amd6408:30
Mithrandiroh, sorry, I think I misunderstood08:30
Kamionnot in the archive yet, anyway08:30
Mithrandiryeah, ooo-amd64 should build fine now, it just needs an upload with that fix.08:31
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=== T-Bone installs and tests
kokeare there any plans on a bazaar gui at this moment??08:31
T-Bonedpkg: error processing lib32gcc1_3.4.2-2ubuntu1_ia64.deb (--install):08:31
T-Bone trying to overwrite `/lib/libgcc_s.so.1', which is also in package libgcc108:31
T-BoneMithrandir: same player shoot again? :)08:31
mdzkoke: I don't thinnk so, but you can ask on #bazaar08:31
MithrandirT-Bone: heh, seems like that has to go to lib32, then08:32
T-BoneMithrandir: your call :)08:32
Kamion~/wg 2508:32
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travail101Kamion, thanx, i got it working now =D08:37
Kamiontravail101: you missed a later comment from me08:37
Kamion19:02 < Kamion> ok, linux-wlan-ng works fine if I put this in /etc/network/interfaces:08:37
travail101what was it?08:37
Kamion19:02 < Kamion> iface wlan0 inet dhcp08:37
Kamion19:02 < Kamion>         wireless_mode managed08:37
Kamion19:02 < Kamion> and then 'ifup wlan0'08:37
Kamionyou might have to set 'wireless_essid YOURESSID' too08:38
MithrandirT-Bone: ok, lib32gcc1 installed fine now, want to test ooo?08:38
travail101hmm... I don't know where I would put that in a Gentoo system though, there is no /etc/network/08:38
Kamionbut basically it all works with the standard ifupdown tools with a little nudging08:38
Kamiontravail101: wouldn't work on Gentoo, that's a Debian-and-derivatives thing08:38
travail101so do you have the LiveCD autodetecting and running DHCP now?08:38
Kamionno because the package is not in the live CD08:39
travail101Kamion, there's got to be an equivilent I can do08:39
Kamiontravail101: I neither know nor particularly care about Gentoo, sorry08:39
lamonttravail101: and someone in #gentoo would be able to answer that08:39
KamionI cannot help you08:39
travail101yeah, I'm already asking #gentoo08:39
travail101thanx for the info though08:40
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=== Mithrandir floodprods T-Bone
TreenaksMithrandir: Ctrl+G him :P08:42
MithrandirI could boot his ia64 and see if he notices08:42
Mithrandiror just power it down08:42
zulMithrandir: power it down he wont notice it :)08:42
Treenaksping -f -b <broadcast address>08:43
Treenakshe'll notice that..08:43
Mithrandirhis screensaver is running, though08:43
zuldo it...give in to peer pressure 08:44
MithrandirI'll rather just download and build ooo-amd6408:45
=== maswan hands Mithrandir a pear
TreenaksMithrandir: nice -n -20 debuild -S ?08:45
Treenaksnot -S of course08:45
shayais http://archive.ubuntu.com down?08:45
Treenaksshaya: no, just busy08:45
MithrandirI need to download the 213MB orig.tar.gz first08:46
mvomdz: permission to upload quagga (postinst changed permissions) and zsh (tab-completion for makefiles) ?08:46
elmoshaya: use us.archive.ubuntu.com08:47
shayathat works08:48
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elmohaggai: dude08:51
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sabdflmdz: around?09:05
makomdz: it sounded like he was ready to collapse an hour or so ago09:07
makosabdfl: ^^09:07
mdzmvo: yes, thanks09:10
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T-BoneMithrandir: sorry, i was playing guitar and training piano :)09:12
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=== T-Bone notices lib32gcc1 is installed, tries ooo
mvomdz: is it ok to ask for more today? or should we rather do it tomorrow so that you can have a bit rest today?09:13
mdzmvo: I will be here for some time yet, feel free to ask about anything09:13
sivangjdub: yeah, naked people like you said :)09:14
mvomdz: I would like to ask for the python-apt change. it's available for review on http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/review/python-apt/python-apt.diff09:14
sivangmdz: are we back to bug fix frenzy ? :-)09:15
mdzmvo: that's fine; feel free to do a release and send me info about merging it in arch09:15
mvomdz: great thanks :)09:15
mdzsivang: we are being a bit cautious because a lot of people will be upgrading, but yes, we are fixing normal bugs again09:15
MithrandirT-Bone: does it work?09:15
T-Boneall packages installed fine09:15
T-Bonelessee how it *works*09:16
=== T-Bone gets all excited :)
sivangmdz: ok, good to know09:17
T-BoneMithrandir: what's your favorite beer?? I'll make sure to pack a full pack of it ;)09:17
=== T-Bone has oowriter OPEN AND RUNNING ON IA64!!!
sivangT-Bone: wow09:17
MithrandirT-Bone: it works?  Cool. :)09:17
MithrandirT-Bone: I'll grab the sources, make sure it still works correctly on amd64 and upload09:18
TreenaksT-Bone: now type something :P09:18
zulcrashy crashy09:18
T-BoneMithrandir: cool! What about the ooffice package? It needs proper renaming i think09:18
T-Bonebecause apt-get ooffice-amd64 on an ia64 box ain't quite logical :)09:18
MithrandirT-Bone: it's just the source package09:18
HiddenWolfT-bone: if you make it work, you get a cookie! :)09:19
MithrandirT-Bone: it's a tad slow over your DSL09:19
T-BoneMithrandir: so it's fine to let it named that way?09:19
Mithrandiryeah, should be just fine09:19
T-BoneMithrandir: gotta be kidding?09:19
=== T-Bone looks what's going on
Mithrandirseems to work fine09:19
MithrandirAA fonts and everything09:19
NafalloI can't add backgrounds to the change background app. what should I file a bug/see if a bug is filled against?09:19
T-BoneMithrandir: i see ~13kB/s outgoing, which is 20% of what that line can do...09:20
MithrandirT-Bone: I've quit it now09:20
Mithrandirit's also that X over long-distance networks suck due to latency09:21
T-Bonelol, you tried to launch it remotely??:)09:21
=== T-Bone hadn't understand that :)
Mithrandiryeah, worked just fine09:21
Mithrandir'cept it was dog slow09:22
=== HiddenWolf looks at all the patches flowing in after the freeze. -> glad to see the lull in updates is over, his broadband was feeling empty inside
T-BoneMithrandir: that's quite strange, i've been running remote XoverSSH from many machines on my network to the outside and it worked fine. Must be your link sucking :)09:22
T-BoneMithrandir: so you upload ia32-libs, and I prepare something for ooffice-amd64?09:23
MithrandirT-Bone: latency's usually the killer.09:23
MithrandirT-Bone: I wonder if OOO-amd64 should possibly be updated to the latest i386 version09:23
T-Bonei'm stuck to 30ms per DSL design09:23
T-BoneMithrandir: no clue09:24
T-BoneMithrandir: it's actually a freakin good news that it works09:24
T-Bonei'll roll up something asap so that kamion can sort out the seed stuff.09:24
T-Bonei'll check if it fixes the firefox locales bug as well09:24
T-Bonethis is *just* awesome, you quite unblocked me :)09:25
Mithrandir6762 could be fixed, I think.09:25
T-BoneMithrandir: ok, i'll look in a short while. But first... Dinner! :)09:26
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Nafalloaha. my error seems to be #5266, never mind.09:28
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=== HiddenWolf has a feeling that the ubuntu servers are overloaded atm
SeveasHiddenWolf, serious? ;)09:37
Treenaksno way!09:40
danielssvenl: yes, xresprobe is worth fixing09:41
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HiddenWolfit'd be amusing to keep stats on the server/bandwith load, and make em available somewhere. :)09:46
=== T-Gone is now known as T-Bone
T-Bonesososo, let's look at this ooo-amd64-ia64 package, and this firefox issue09:51
MithrandirT-Bone: still syncing down here09:51
T-BoneMithrandir: ok np. I'm testing install language-support-en right now09:52
T-Bonehmm so firefox still segfaults anyway09:54
sivangdevelopment meeting is stil tommorow right?09:56
Mithrandiruhm?  When tomorrow?09:57
zulas far as i know09:57
sivangMithrandir: yes09:58
sivangMithrandir: 1700UTC09:58
sivangMithrandir: I was just making sure it's still the same time and date :)09:58
=== T-Bone will try to be here
Mithrandirurf; URL?09:58
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sivangMithrandir: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1812209:59
Mithrandirhm, ok10:00
=== sivang --> off for the night
sivangnight all10:00
T-Bone trying to overwrite `/usr/share/locale-langpack/en_CA/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-panel-2.0.mo', which is also in package language-pack-en10:02
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=== T-Bone wonders why he gets that though he just apt-get update'd
elmoiz dpkg bug10:03
elmosee ml10:03
T-Boneah yes. I've too quick at reading, didn't notice the upload *just* happened10:04
T-BoneMithrandir: wanna handle new ooo-amd64 upload? Basically all i did was adding ia64 to target archs10:06
Mithrandirsure, I'll do that10:06
mdzKamion: around?10:07
T-BoneMithrandir: i suppose you might want to get these changes into Debian, assuming they apply... Or else, Ubuntu will be the only one having ooo working on ia64 ;)10:07
=== T-Bone will advertise that status update
T-BoneMithrandir: any ETA for new packages availability (so that I can mention that in my email)?10:08
MithrandirT-Bone: I'm waiting for bdale to say _anything_ about my ia32-libs package.10:09
MithrandirI told him about it like four months ago10:09
T-Bonelemme poke him right now :)10:09
Mithrandirand asked if he wanted to take it.10:09
MithrandirI could NMU if he prefers that10:09
MithrandirI would prefer not to take over the package and comaintainership would be a bit silly, but I'm open to suggestions10:10
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T-BoneMithrandir: roger. Trying to get in touch with him, hold on10:11
=== T-Bone updates wiki
=== Liblit is now known as Benoni
T-BoneMithrandir: otherwise, any ETA? Do you plan to upload today/tomorrow for instance?10:12
T-Bone(in ubuntu, that is)10:13
MithrandirT-Bone: ia32-libs: today, ooo?  Tonight/morrow, I gues10:13
=== dholbac1 is now known as dholbach
T-Boneso now, we have to kill that firefox bugs10:15
T-Bonetrouble is, i haven't been able to reproduce on debian, though I could reproduce with debian debs on Ubuntu10:16
=== T-Bone wonders what could be the cause of such a strange thing
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Kamionmdz: yo. about to go out though, was writing very lengthy e-mail10:19
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mdzKamion: was going to ask you about that non-ascii-characters-in-fullname/username issue, since someone mentioned somethig similar in reference to preview, though I thought we had fixed it10:20
mdzKamion: not urgent10:20
Kamionmdz: hm, could be that non-ASCII characters in the full name still break some things, I don't know10:21
Kamionmdz: people can still try to enter non-ASCII characters in the username; it's not presented to them by default in the installer, and the installer will reject it if they try10:21
T-Bonemdz: re 7155, looking at config help I see:10:22
T-Bone If you are unsure how to answer this question, answer N.10:22
mdzKamion: the report on u-d was very vague; I asked for clarification10:22
T-BoneCONFIG_SECURITY_NETWORK is a bool, can't be made module...10:22
lamontKamion: wasn't it C!=UTF8 for at least part of the issue>10:23
T-Bonenow it's true CONFIG_SECURITY is also recommended "No" as well10:23
Kamionlamont: installer *should* be C.UTF-8 ...10:23
lamontyeah, but post-boot?  what does getty get?10:23
Kamionlamont: except maybe it doesn't set a valid locale for second-stage stuff that's pulled back to the first stage, which may not help10:23
Kamionlamont: dunno, I thought it was whatever's in /etc/environment but could be wrong10:23
lamontyeah -dunno here either10:24
Kamionlamont: 'sudo ps axew' suggests getty doesn't get LANG or LC_*10:24
lamontand therefore ==C?10:24
Kamionbut since non-ASCII characters in usernames are rejected ...10:25
KamionI guess non-ASCII stuff in passwords might cause problems10:25
lamontanywhere that crosses the UTF-8/non-UTF-8 boundary is going to have issues, yes>?10:25
Mithrandirlamont: oh, the joy.10:26
lamontanyway, off to fetch the child from school, and hit the store for some CD-R media, etc.10:28
lamontback in about 1-2 hours or so10:28
=== T-Bone points Mithrandir at the other window
dholbachis david sedeo in here?10:36
Mithrandirlamont: when you come back -- I have some ideas, possibly crackful, for util-linux.10:38
Mithrandirlamont: if you could prod me when you're around and have a little time, I'd appreciate.10:38
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=== ogra was only five hours away......and finds more then 100 mails in his inbox..... *sighs*
sivangogra: how many mls are you subscribed to?10:41
sivangogra: u-d hasn't seen so much emails since I think :)10:41
ograsivang: u-d = 45, u-u = 5010:42
Kamionmdz: it sounds to me as if he's complaining that non-ASCII characters in usernames are rejected, to which I say "good, although we could possibly improve the documentation"10:42
sivangogra: eh :)10:42
ograsivang: but i'm also subscribed to a lot more non ubuntu stuff....10:43
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sivangogra: I see10:43
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=== ogra blows a big (very loud) horn
ogradid anyone recognize that dholbach uploaded more then 100 packages already ?10:49
tsengI did not10:49
tsengbut in that case.10:49
=== tseng gives dholbach a cookie
mvocheers to dholbach 10:49
dholbachwoohoo :-)10:49
=== ogra thinks dholbach should be alled seb129 :)
ogracalled even10:49
sivangnight all10:53
dholbachbye sivan!10:53
ajmitchgood work, dholbach  :)10:55
dholbachthanks ajmitch :-)10:55
T-BoneMithrandir: don't forget to close bugreports btw :)10:56
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GheRiverohi! is anyone taking care of NFSv4  and kerberos stuff? which is the state of it?11:01
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T-Bonethom: ?11:08
T-BoneProgram received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.11:12
T-Bone[Switching to Thread 2305843009238620048 (LWP 19157)] 11:12
T-Bone0x2000000000136001 in js_strlen () from /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/libmozjs.so11:12
T-Bonethat's what causing the firefox segfault11:12
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tsengpitti: busy?11:35
pittitseng: just with real-life issues11:35
pittitseng: what's up?11:36
tsengpitti: im brainstorming with a bunch of people on hardened ubuntu .. pax atm11:36
tsengand we're thinking that using softmode might make sense for ubuntu11:36
tsengare you familiar with it?11:36
pittitseng: yes, I built the -hardened kernels :-)11:37
tsengheh I know11:37
pittitseng: but I don't really like the softmode, it spoils all the fun :-)11:37
tsengI havent looked at their config admitedly11:37
tsengwell, I like having a hardmode kernel available11:37
tsengbut we could sanely give softmode to everyone11:37
tsengor a larger population11:37
tsengand start marking daemons noexec11:37
tsengalso, using PT_GNU_STACK will give us compatiblity with ES if we are forced to replace PaX11:38
mdzelmo: still around?11:38
tsengand avoid binutils patching to get PT_PAX_FLAGS markings for paxctl11:38
pittitseng: so far I avoided binutils patching, yes11:39
tsengchpax works.. but its a deprecated hack11:39
pittitseng: instead I created a linux-hardened-support package which calls chpax every now and then11:39
tsengso proper support means PT_GNU_STACK or PT_PAX_FLAGS11:39
pittitseng: i. e. at kernel installation and X installation11:40
pittitseng: right, but binutils patching is too intrusive11:40
tsengI'll have to look at it11:40
tsengpitti: which is why im thinking of advocating pt_gnu11:40
tsengand marking in debian/rules11:40
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pittitseng: btw, right now there are no hardened kernels, I removed them because they have this hole11:40
tsengright, I noticed that11:40
pittitseng: and I still did not find the way to produce 2.6.11 images11:41
tsengI have a 2.6.11 tree in gentoo, but yeah.. for ubuntu will be hoary+111:41
tsengthanks for your vote, ill keep hasing things out11:42
dilingertseng: what's your name?11:42
tsengdilinger: Brandon Hale11:42
dilingerah, ok11:42
dilingeri was just curious if you were one of the gentoo people i worked w/ on 2.6.10-as stuff.  guess not.11:43
tsengwas it Adam Mondl?11:43
tsengor Daniel Drake11:43
dilingerdaniel drake11:43
=== tseng nods
tsengI was using -as in my patchset, but there was a recurring buglet with selinux build11:44
tsengdo you recall the ipv6 socket fix?11:44
tsengselinux assumes socket has ipv6 bits11:45
tsengseems fixed in 2.6.1111:45
dilingera few11:45
dilingerthere were a lot of ipv6 fixes that i skimmed over 'cause they were rather large, and i'm not all that interested in ipv6 yet11:45
dilingerskimmed over and ignored, that is11:46
tsengwould be nice if 2.6.x.y project was more agressive11:46
tsengat this point im tracking that, -as, and -ac11:47
dilingeri started 2.6.11-as last night11:47
dilingeralready 6 patches on top of
dilingeri'm going to try and feed them to gregkh, and see what happens11:47
tseng-ac mentioned a missed secuirty patch.. and I have one more in gentoo that was never picked up11:48
tsengill post and see if you are familiar with it11:48
dilingeri've briefly looked at -ac, but i'm trying to get 2.6.10 wrapped up, first11:48
=== dilinger is synching -as4 through -as7 w/ debian's 2.6.10. i shouldn't have put it off for so long
tsengsummary is remote DoS in nfsacl11:49
dilingerhrm.  i hadn't see that11:51
tsengstuff is still falling through the cracks =/11:52
dilingeralright, thanks.  any idea if -mm has it?11:52
tsengwill look11:52
tseng  nfsacl: Return -ENOSYS for RPC programs that are unavailable11:52
dilingerhe's usually very receptive to patches; i find that to be the best way to get my stuff in11:52
tsenghm thats not it11:53
dilingeralso, there's apparently a security@ address now, although i haven't used it yet11:53
tsengtheres a bunch of nfsacl patches11:53
tsengnone sound that promising11:53
=== HiddenWolf [~hidde@136.34.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
tsengfom -ac:11:55
tsengoAF_ROSE security hole fix - still missing from base11:55
tsengoBridge failure to check kmalloc argument overflow11:55
tsengalso, he doesnt document anything from vendor-sec11:55
elmomdz: yes11:58
=== T-Bone calls it a night
=== T-Bone is now known as T-None
=== sm-afk is now known as sm

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