[12:00] <mdz> Kamion: are yo ugoing to do a CD build for mvo to test before you go?
[12:01] <Kamion> mdz: yes, will do one for just i386 and amd64
[12:01] <mdz> ok
[12:01] <Kamion> mdz: we're waiting for pitti's language-pack changes anyway, aren't we?
[12:01] <lamont> Kamion: probably
[12:01] <Kamion> so I can do the really-final build tomorrow morning
[12:01] <Kamion> lamont: how badly?
[12:01] <lamont> the sequence is: daily, byhand, daily, byhand
[12:01] <mdz> Kamion: the language-pack issue is purely an upgrade one, but yes, I expect we will
[12:01] <lamont> otherwise your upload is b0rekd
[12:02] <lamont> want me to force a happy upload on i386?>
[12:02] <Kamion> lamont: mdz said he byhanded something just recently
[12:02] <Kamion> lamont: will that have been b0rked?
[12:02] <lamont> check the dates on the files - that may have been this mornings.
[12:02] <Kamion> mdz: ?
[12:02] <mdz> I byhanded 200503091
[12:02] <mdz> was that not the right build?
[12:03] <lamont> mdz: the issue is that the daily build script uses w-b for state-storage, and w-b trashes it.
[12:03] <Kamion> 200503091 was there on four architectures
[12:03] <Kamion> I only built two
[12:03] <Kamion> therefore I deduce that it was not the right build
[12:03] <mdz> it was the only one in the queue
[12:03] <lamont> logs/debian-installer_20041227ubuntu20.0.200503091_20050309-0615
[12:03] <lamont> logs/debian-installer_20041227ubuntu20.0.200503091_20050309-2238
[12:03] <lamont> right.
[12:03] <jon1012> someone needs some help right now ? it's strike in france tomorrow, so I on't have anything to do... so I can help tomorrow and tonight :) (I'm a C developer and a graphic designer)
[12:04] <lamont> the other upload bounced.
[12:04] <mdz> Package ubuntu-desktop has broken dep on esound
[12:04] <mdz>   Considering esound 0 as a solution to ubuntu-desktop 0
[12:04] <mdz>   Removing ubuntu-desktop rather than change esound
[12:04] <mdz> BAH
[12:04] <toresbe> haha
[12:04] <Kamion> lamont: now that it's byhanded, it should be possible to do i386 and amd64 builds; perhaps it would be best if you disabled the cron job, so that only manual "daily" builds happen
[12:04] <lamont> actually, it claims to have intsalled that version...
[12:04] <lamont> Kamion: just tell me when to reenable it.
[12:05] <Kamion> lamont: after preview :-)
[12:05] <Kamion> but yes, will do
[12:05] <mdz> lamont: 2 more hours before we get ppc?
[12:05] <lamont> ppc should enter the archive at 0103 london time
[12:06] <lamont> it is now 2306.
[12:06] <mdz> "yes"
[12:06] <lamont> so, that'd be 1:57 :-)(
[12:06] <ogra_live> oh, update-manager runs in the livecd default session ?
[12:06] <mdz> is there anyone here besides mvo who can test the piix fix?
[12:06] <lamont> Kamion: post hoary, I'll keep the state outside of wb and merge as needed.  Worst case, we'll skip a version number or 2.
[12:06] <mdz> ogra_live: itym update-notifier
[12:07] <lamont> mdz: with a couple of 10 minute drives, I can go fetch the fix and abuse my daughters computer to test it.
[12:07] <Kamion> lamont: nod, that would be great
[12:07] <ogra_live> mdz: i'm currently running on a piix system without probs....
[12:07] <lamont> current livecd verified b0rked in her computer.
[12:07] <mdz> lamont: have you reproduced the bug on that machine already?
[12:07] <mdz> ok
[12:07] <lamont> that is, this morning's
[12:07] <mdz> because mvo is going to need to sleep at some point
[12:07] <ogra_live> mdz: without the fixes
[12:08] <mdz> ogra_live: your system is not a good test case, then :-)
[12:08] <Kamion> jon1012: currently, the bulk of development effort is going into making sure that tomorrow's preview release is rock-solid
[12:08] <ogra_live> nope :)
[12:08] <Kamion> jon1012: so we're all a bit distracted right now ...
[12:08] <lamont> Kamion: what's the best way to find the state that the installer leaves things in before postfix's config/postinst run?
[12:08] <Kamion> lamont: how much before?
[12:08] <mvo> mdz: what is the ETA for something to test? I can manage to stay up for a bit 
[12:08] <lamont> immediately before is fine...
[12:08] <jon1012> Kamion: that's why I ask if I can be of any help :)
[12:09] <lamont> worst case, I'll just hack the postinst/config to exit 0... :-)
[12:09] <Kamion> lamont: after it unpacks postfix, edit /target/var/lib/dpkg/info/postfix.config and put 'sleep <lots>' just after '. /usr/share/debconf/confmodule' :-)
[12:09] <mdz> lamont: we need a new i386 d-i build, right?
[12:09] <lamont> mdz: just to be sure, we should... give me a coupl eminutes
[12:09] <Kamion> jon1012: at the moment I'm afraid it's just testing testing testing, not very exciting, but welcome nonetheless
[12:10] <Kamion> cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ and cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ are the things to test, although we'll be rolling new dailies shortly
[12:10] <lamont> i386 d-i build launched
[12:10] <lamont> 03092 is our friend
[12:10] <Kamion> lamont: could you do amd64 too?
[12:10] <Kamion> (might as well)
[12:10] <lamont> Kamion: perl syntax for that sleep?  (postfix config is perl... believe it or not...)
[12:10] <mdz> might as well wait, and do an 03093 for all architectures
[12:11] <Kamion> mdz: that won't let mvo test tonight
[12:11] <mdz> Kamion: mvo is on i386
[12:11] <lamont> Kamion: amd64 launched
[12:11] <Kamion> mdz: it will probably have to be 03092 on the other architectures (less confusing that way, without manual help from lamont ...)
[12:11] <mdz> I'm not feeling particularly good about all this byhanding
[12:12] <Kamion> I'm not feeling particularly good about committing to sabdfl for a 1200 final build when the required d-i stuff won't arrive until close to that
[12:12] <lamont> mdz: but you're good at waving your hands... I've seen you.
[12:13] <mdz> Kamion: eh?  we'll have a ppc kernel in 2 hours, and we'll build d-i shortly after that
[12:13] <lamont> mdz: let me know about 10 min before we have new images, and I'll drive down to fetch them.
[12:13] <lamont> mdz: I hope he doesn't mean midnight, because we're gonna miss that by an hour...
[12:13] <Kamion> mdz: if we're waiting for 03093 on all architectures, that's +6h or whatever for ia64
[12:13] <mdz> Kamion: fuck ia64
[12:13] <Kamion> heh
[12:14] <mdz> ia64 is explicitly and implicitly excluded anytime I say "all" ;-P
[12:14] <Kamion> so why bother with 03093? that's just *more* byhanding
[12:15] <mdz> Kamion: I suppose we must, because 03092 may be borked
[12:15] <Kamion> how come?
[12:16] <mdz> or was that 091?
[12:16] <Kamion> that was 03091
[12:16] <Kamion> the builds lamont recently launched should be good
[12:16] <mdz> ok, fine
[12:16] <Kamion> ok, that explains the confusion. :)
[12:16] <mdz> so long as the next set of uploads are the last
[12:16] <zenwhen> A hoary install should swap between two sstems assuming they are both fully supported in the stock kernel perfectly, am I correct?
[12:16] <mdz> (barring further complications)
[12:16] <zenwhen> systems*
[12:17] <mdz> zenwhen: not at all
[12:17] <zenwhen> so a reinstall would be required?
[12:17] <mdz> not strictly, no
[12:17] <Kamion> you'd probably have to rebuild the initrd
[12:17] <mdz> it would be sufficient to regenerate the initrd
[12:17] <zenwhen> oh
[12:17] <wasabi_> and fix fstab
[12:17] <lamont> amd64/i386 uploaded, waiting for cron.hourly
[12:17] <wasabi_> if it needs fixin
[12:17] <Kamion> and fix the bootloader
[12:17] <mdz> if they require different drivers to mount the root filesystem
[12:17] <wasabi_> yeah
[12:17] <zenwhen> Oh
[12:18] <zenwhen> ok cool
[12:18] <wasabi_> so does hte mkinitrd contain every storage driver or just the one that's needed?
[12:18] <zenwhen> but how would I do that without booting the install
[12:18] <mdz> zenwhen: #ubuntu, please
[12:18] <wasabi_> you would boot it with a live cd
[12:18] <zenwhen> not to bother you guys
[12:18] <zenwhen> sorry
[12:18] <zenwhen> I got off topic again. I know you guys are busy.
[12:19] <elmo> lamont: our ia64 buildds actually have 15k SCSI disks - I don't really think that constitutes "SLOW", esp. compared with powerpc's single-disk SATA
[12:20] <mdz> elmo: sabdfl insists that you sleep so that you can be abused tomorrow
[12:20] <elmo> mdz: that's nice, I slept most of the afternoon tho - by mistake
[12:20] <mdz> elmo: oh, good, then you'll be up late and can byhand for us?
[12:20] <elmo> yeah
[12:21] <lamont> elmo: OK
[12:21] <mdz> thanks
[12:21] <lamont> elmo: and I apologize for calling the ia64 boxen P-O-S...  Because they cost way to much to be that... :0)
[12:22] <elmo> the boxes aren't POSes, they're just slow - IMHO, given how much they cost that's just a reflection on the state of the architecture far more than the boxes :p
[12:23] <elmo> mdz: anything for me to do now before I go catchup on what I missed?
[12:24] <mdz> elmo: there should be i386 and amd64 d-i builds in byhand now or shortly
[12:24] <lamont> waiting there for at least 4 minutes...
[12:24] <HiddenWolf> elmo: is there actually a market for ia64 tux distro's?
[12:25] <lamont> HiddenWolf: that's the question
[12:25] <lamont> and so far, the answer seems to be somewhere between "NO", and "NFC"
[12:26] <HiddenWolf> (if I was feeling evil, i'd say 'are there any ia64's in the wild?' now, i'd say  that if one wants a ia64 box, one wants support with it)
[12:27] <Kamion> elmo: catch up on the NIGHTMARE
[12:28] <HiddenWolf> kamion: how's it going?
[12:29] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: it's going ... :)
[12:29] <Kamion> I'm going to pass out soon and hand the baton to others
[12:30] <elmo> i386/amd64 processed
[12:30] <HiddenWolf> Kamion: what was the show-stopper?
[12:31] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: ata_piix breakage with ATA_ENABLE_PATA
[12:40] <mdz> mvo: while you are waiting, I could use more ideas about how to address the esound/polypaudio upgrade issue
[12:42] <mvo> mdz: is there a bugnumber? I haven't followed the discussion
[12:42] <mdz> mvo: no, there is no bug currently, but I should open one
[12:43] <mdz> mvo: so ubuntu-desktop depended on polypaudio, which also provides esound, and now we want upgrades to bring in the real esound package and remove polypaudio
[12:44] <jdub> the versioned depend didn't work?
[12:44] <mdz> (one way of looking at) the problem is, apt will consider polypaudio more important than ubuntu-desktop
[12:44] <mdz> because polypaudio is depended upon by several other packages (its plugins)
[12:44] <mdz> so apt will prefer to remove ubuntu-desktop and keep polypaudio
[12:44] <mvo> mdz: a nasty situation
[12:45] <jdub> oof
[12:45] <mdz> mvo: yes
[12:45] <mdz> one solution might be to remove polypaudio from the archive
[12:45] <mvo> mdz: it's a drastic one, but it will certainly work :)
[12:45] <mdz> and then force a conflict
[12:45] <jdub> remove the provides temporarily?
[12:45] <mdz> but I would prefer to find another way
[12:46] <mdz> removing the provides does not help
[12:46] <jdub> it still prefers to remove u-d?
[12:46] <mdz> apt says: ubuntu-desktop needs esound, but when I upgrade polypaudio, esound will be gone.  I can remove ubuntu-desktop, or remove these 5 other packages of equal priority.  I'll remove ubuntu-desktop
[12:46] <elmo> add a pre-depends on ubuntu-desktop to dpkg.  that'll learn apt.
[12:47] <jdub> so, i'm not sure why we want to force the upgrade
[12:47] <jdub> a particular class of users use hoary before preview
[12:47] <jdub> and we can note it as an upgrade issue
[12:47] <mdz> the problem with that
[12:47] <jdub> do we need to do anything more drastic than that?
[12:47] <mdz> is that it doesn't accomplish a damn thing
[12:48] <mdz> we will still have thousands of users running polypaudio forever
[12:48] <mdz> the right thing to do is to transition them to esound
[12:48] <jdub> they're using a development branch, things change, and we can always point out the note if they raise an issue
[12:49] <jdub> on this timescale, we're going to have to deal with that kind of thing
[12:49] <Kamion> elmo: *laugh*
[12:49] <mdz> what timescale?
[12:49] <jdub> six month releases
[12:49] <Kamion> ooh, openssh 4.0
[12:49] <mdz> I don't see what relevance that has
[12:49] <jdub> particularly once sarge is done and sid gets interesting again
[12:49] <mdz> "screw you, you ran the development branch" is not a good solution
[12:50] <jdub> it's not that bad
[12:50] <Kamion> * Improved sftp(1) client, including bugfixes and optimisations for the 
[12:50] <Kamion>   ``ls'' command and command history and editing support using libedit.
[12:50] <elmo> I think it is FWIW
[12:50] <Kamion> ABOUT TIME
[12:50] <jdub> we have a responsibility to cleanly upgrade releases; devel branch interestingness is par for the course
[12:51] <mdz> Kamion: !
[12:51] <Kamion> oh, THANK GOD, they finally fixed the "store port numbers in known_hosts" thing
[12:51] <Kamion> I've lost count of the bugs I have about that
[12:51] <Kamion> erm, at least I think they did, the changelog is not entirely clear
[12:51] <HrdwrBoB> the primary problem with sftp is you have to have a login account to use it
[12:52] <Kamion> actually maybe not, oh well
[12:52] <mdz> HrdwrBoB: you're thinking of scp
[12:52] <mdz> sftp addresses exactly that problem
[12:52] <HrdwrBoB> mdz: sftp too
[12:52] <HrdwrBoB> unless it's change in the last six months
[12:52] <HrdwrBoB> changed
[12:52] <mdz> nope, from the beginning
[12:53] <Kamion> that's a bit like saying "the primary problem with apples is that they aren't oranges"
[12:53] <Kamion> sftp is very useful within its use case
[12:53] <mdz> unless you mean something other than "shell access" when you say "login account"
[12:53] <Kamion> but certainly yes, the subsystem facility in SSH2 is meant to allow for this kind of thing
[12:53] <mdz> Kamion: shall we roll a CD build for mvo?
[12:53] <Kamion> I thought you were talking about lack of anonymous sftp
[12:54] <HrdwrBoB> mdz: yeah
[12:54] <Kamion> mdz: about to
[12:54] <HrdwrBoB> not not anon ftp
[12:54] <Kamion> building amd64/i386, no jigdo
[12:55] <Kamion> note that this means people will see powerpc "disappearing" from daily/current
[12:55] <Kamion> might want to direct them to 20050309.1
[12:56] <lamont> Kamion: does that mean that later when ppc is done, we gen all 3?
[12:56] <Kamion> yeah, but I'll probably just do that tomorrow morning
[12:56] <lamont> or just ppc, and do some hand migration of files/links?
[12:58] <elmo> OOI where did the other two arches go?
[12:58] <Kamion> elmo: waiting for updated kernels
[12:58] <Kamion> no point otherwise
[12:59] <elmo> ah
[12:59] <Kamion> lamont: we're getting updated language-packs anyway
[12:59] <Kamion> mvo: ok, images up for you
[12:59] <Kamion> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20050309.2/hoary-install-i386.iso or equivalent rsync
[01:00] <mvo> Kamion: thanks, downloading now
[01:00] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/full/daily/current$ isoinfo -R -i hoary-install-i386.iso -x /install/initrd.list | grep sata-modules
[01:00] <Kamion> sata-modules-2.6.10-4-386-di 2.6.10-25.1
[01:01] <jdub> mdz: the timescale is relevant because the amount of change in a short period of time forces you to be comfortable with push-and-revert as a change management technique; it's tougher for us because we also have packaging toolset issues to consider.
[01:02] <mdz> jdub: our rate of change is slower than Debian's
[01:02] <jdub> mdz: unfortunately, epochs and task packages are icky things, and everyone wants to feel a certain level of cleanliness.
[01:03] <mdz> this is a technical issue; the fact that the solution isn't apparent doesn't mean that we throw up our hands just yet
[01:03] <mdz> I assume you agree that if we can transition everyone, that's simply better
[01:04] <mdz> so I'm going to continue to look for a way
[01:04] <jdub> sure, but i'm not going to scrub my hands twice a day and flick lightswitches 9 times to make sure :)
[01:04] <mdz> certainly not
[01:05] <jdub> our policy implementation is pretty brittle
[01:05] <jdub> (and on the agenda for UDU)
[01:05] <GheRivero> res
[01:06] <thom> hm, Message-ID: <a2ce2a0e050309155334320d1d@mail.gmail.com> on users is presumably just a reiteration of fabio's problem
[01:06] <mdz> thom: can you ask them to test the latest daily?
[01:07] <thom> mdz: sure can
[01:07] <Kamion> I just sent mail about that
[01:08] <Kamion> saying exactly that :)
[01:08] <Kamion> and I just got bug #7386 about it too
[01:10] <Kamion> amazing how it's obvious how many things are the same problem once it's diagnosed
[01:10] <jbailey> thom: Figured out the sulogin problem.  This was a sarge->hoary upgraded machine, and sysvinit is newer in sarge.
[01:10] <thom> ah
[01:11] <Kamion> sigh, see #1440
[01:12] <Kamion> somebody who's awake please diagnose
[01:12] <lamont> grumble
[01:12] <Kamion> although actually I suspect he has a piix chipset
[01:13] <Kamion> perhaps he installed with array 6 or greater, and is therefore relying on the devices being scsi
[01:13] <lamont> Kamion: wouldn't surprise me...
[01:13] <lamont> must ask him though
[01:13] <lamont> I think at this point, if we wind up re-opening 1440 with -25.1, we still ship, and call it RC for release
[01:13] <Kamion> yes
[01:13] <jbailey> I'll reply to it, just a sec.
[01:13] <lamont> shipping -25 is completely unacceptable, since it causes data corrpution
[01:13] <lamont> jbailey: thanks
[01:14] <jbailey> Is it impolite for me to add him to the cc: list of the bug and just reply to the bug?
[01:15] <Kamion> not in my book
[01:15] <Kamion> (i.e. go ahead)
[01:16] <jbailey> Lovely.  I don't want to lose things from the trail.
[01:18] <Kamion> night folks
[01:19] <lamont> Kamion: remind me..
[01:19] <jbailey> g'n Colin
[01:19] <lamont> the end of stage 1 is after debootstrap, but basically before just about everything else?
[01:19] <lamont> or what else happens before the reboot?
[01:19] <lamont> that is, how much of base-* has run?
[01:20] <Kamion> lamont: debootstrap, kernel install, initrd-tools install and initrd generation, archive-copier, timezone/shadow/apt config, bootloader setup, bits and pieces to prepare for base-config
[01:20] <Kamion> base-config has not yet run, although a few bits of it have (timezone/apt config)
[01:21] <lamont> ok'
[01:21] <lamont> Kamion: and btw....
[01:22] <lamont> for hoary+1 we should really notice when there's only one network cable plugged in (and eth1 doesn't have link), and just use that...
[01:22] <Kamion> mii/ethtool lies sometimes
[01:22] <Kamion> it's infuriating and crap but apparently true
[01:22] <lamont> yeah
[01:23] <lamont> anyway, sleep
[01:24] <HiddenWolf> I'm afraid to ask, but is there any place where I can check up on the gnome 2.12 -> 3.x goals?
[01:25] <thom> HiddenWolf: live.gnome.org is the gnome wiki
[01:25] <thom> certainly there's 3.0 discussion there
[01:25] <HiddenWolf> thom: thanks, the gnome website is a jungle
[01:26] <thom> jdub: ^^
[01:26] <jdub> uh huh
[01:27] <jdub> live is wildly unliked from everywhere :)
[01:27] <jdub> ha ha
[01:27] <jdub> unlinked
[01:30] <elmo> W: GPG error: http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary Release: Could not execute /usr/bin/gpgv to verify signature (is gnupg installed?)
[01:30] <elmo> that's a bit spethial
[01:33] <jbailey> T-None: That sounds like a challenge.
[01:33] <T-None> not for me, I promise :)
[01:33] <jbailey> T-None: Hah!  I was succesful.
[01:34] <T-None> ROTFL
[01:34] <T-None> damn you ;)
[01:37] <lamont> dh_fixperms -s
[01:37] <lamont> xargs: chown: terminated by signal 4
[01:37] <lamont> dh_fixperms: command returned error code
[01:38] <lamont> mdz: linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-25.1_20050310-0012 03:08:44 (5 entries, sigma 01:28:21)
[01:38] <lamont> so, depending on it's mood, I'm inclined to believe the worst (04:36), but hey...
[01:39] <lamont> plan on seeing ppc kernel binaries somewhere around 0333 or 0403
[01:39] <lamont> jbailey: find that ppc SIGILL source and kill it, 'k?
[01:40] <jbailey> lamont: You sure it's not hardware?  I don't do a ton of compiling, but I've done gcc and glibc a few times and not seen it on my box.
[01:41] <lamont> jbailey: happens on our good boxes, which pass memtests and such. happens on debian's buildd.
[01:41] <lamont> predominantly during kernel compiles and other really long builds
[01:41] <lamont> but not always
[01:42] <lamont> so do we have something pretty to use for labels for hoary-preview local burns?"
[01:42] <jdub> no
[01:42] <jdub> hopefully for release we will
[01:42] <lamont> jdub: grumble
[01:43] <lamont> jdub: but I want it, NOW!!!!!
[01:43] <lamont> (with apologies to willy wonka)
[01:43] <lamont> how about a piix chipset with a red circle-slash?
[01:44] <mdz> lamont: DOH
[01:44] <lamont> mdz: uh, yeah.
[01:44] <lamont> actually, I think I will do that
[01:44] <mdz> lamont: I don't suppose ccache is working on that box
[01:45] <lamont> mdz: well, it gets pretty invalidated.
[01:45] <lamont> all 3 ppc boxes are taking a stab at the build...
[01:45] <lamont> one of them will make it, and I apologize for what it'll look like under buildLogs...
[01:45] <mdz> lamont: it gets invalidated? why?
[01:46] <lamont> either size or variety of compiliations
[01:46] <mdz> the size of that cache, last time we talked about it, is way larger than a kernel build
[01:46] <mdz> O(gigabytes), no?
[01:47] <lamont> cache hit                          43230
[01:47] <lamont> cache miss                        141733
[01:48] <lamont> cache size is 7-10 GB on those machines
[01:48] <mdz> ...and 1440 has been reopened
[01:48] <mdz> though it doesn't sound like the same issue, it is a new issue with -25.1
[01:49] <lamont> well, given that we removed part of the change that fixed him in -25, and things broke, I expect that it may be highly related.
[01:49] <lamont> but I don't think 1440 is necessarily a preview-blocker
[01:49] <lamont> certainly a release-blocker
[01:49] <mdz> who is him?
[01:50] <lamont> dunno
[01:50] <lamont> the final commenter who reopened it
[01:50] <lamont> that jbailey replied to
[01:51] <mdz> he had not participated in the bug until that time
[01:51] <mdz> as far as i know he wasn't experiencing #1440, and his symptoms don't sound the same
[01:51] <jbailey> I can check against my laptop and against the SATA machine.
[01:52] <jbailey> laptop will happen tonight, the sata machine is best rebooted early in the morning.
[01:53] <jbailey> The 'too much time' comment also doesn't make alot of sense.
[01:53] <zenwhen> is 1440 an install blocker?
[01:55] <lamont> zenwhen: the "fix" for it in -25 was
[01:55] <HiddenWolf> zenwhen: it'll mess a lot of people up if it isn't fixed, so yes
[01:55] <lamont> mdz: do we have new i386/amd64 images?
[01:55] <zenwhen> i have a machine with sata I can test array 6 on. Would that information be of ANY benifit?
[01:55] <mdz> mvo: have you been able to test the CD?
[01:55] <mdz> lamont: yes
[01:56] <zenwhen> Its the newest disk I have.
[01:56] <lamont> mdz: OK.  off to go download, I guess
[01:56] <mdz> zenwhen: array 6 is pretty much irrelevant at this point
[01:56] <zenwhen> ok. just checking.,
[01:56] <mvo> mdz: download/burning just finished, booting now
[01:56] <mdz> mvo: great, thanks
[01:56] <zenwhen> ll be doing daily install testing and stuff for you guys in a month.
[01:57] <lamont> cdimage/daily-live/current/hoary-live-i386.iso, yes?
[01:57] <lamont> why is that claiming to be current....
[01:57] <lamont> or are the current links not moved yet?
[01:58] <mvo> mdz: is working now
[01:58] <mvo> mdz: only piix is loaded, no ata_piix
 http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20050309.2/hoary-install-i386.iso or equivalent rsync
[01:59] <mdz> mvo: ok, good
[01:59] <mvo> mdz: I continue installing now and see if it goes all well
[02:00] <lamont> ah, no livecd then. got it.
[02:00] <mdz> does anyone here have a system with SATA disks?
[02:00] <elmo> the powerpc buildds do - dunno if that counts
[02:00] <mdz> SATA disk and ATAPI CD-ROM?
[02:00] <jbailey> mdz: Yes.
[02:00] <mdz> jbailey: but you said you couldn't test until morning
[02:01] <mdz> morning for you is the time we need our final candidate build
[02:01] <jbailey> mdz: Lemme just check about doing it now, hold a sec.
[02:02] <HiddenWolf> guys: don't forget to update the release notes; now 'on the very same day as the gnome 2.10 release' is 'a mere day after the release of gnome 2.10' 
[02:03] <zenwhen> "Before anyone else. Thats all that counts."
[02:04] <HiddenWolf> agreed, but the release notes state 'on the same day' 
[02:04] <zenwhen> Oh, I agree. I was adding.
[02:04] <zenwhen> ;)
[02:05] <jbailey> mdz: All we need is a reboot test to see if it sees the cdrom, right?
[02:06] <mdz> jbailey: I think so
[02:07] <mdz> jbailey: the fact that he's talking about disks to me indicates that he isn't experiencing the CD-ROM problem
[02:07] <mdz> jbailey: I think Colin's guess is reasonable
[02:07] <jbailey> Yeah.
[02:08] <mdz> he probably installed with array 6, has a /dev/sd* device in /etc/fstab because of it, and now his disk is a /dev/hd* device
[02:08] <lamont> mdz: that would make sense
[02:09] <lamont> nothing like an expert install to make you appreciate Kamion's work
[02:09] <mdz> jbailey: if you can reconfirm with -25.1, I'll follow up
[02:09] <jdub> lamont: hear hear.
[02:09] <jbailey> mdz: Cool.  After this I need to run out and meet my wife.  It's out wedding aniversary today. =)
[02:10] <mdz> elmo: I'm not sure if that counts either
[02:10] <HiddenWolf> jbailey: congratulations
[02:10] <lamont> jbailey: happy anniversary to both of you
[02:10] <lamont> er, you both, even. :-)
[02:10] <jbailey> ROFL
[02:10] <jdub> jbailey: congrats. years?
[02:10] <thom> jbailey: congrats
[02:10] <jbailey> jdub: 3 =)
[02:10] <mdz> you crazy people and your marriages
[02:11] <jdub> jbailey: cool :)
[02:11] <thom> mdz: it seems fashionable currently...
[02:11] <m_tthew> mdz: hear hear
[02:12] <ogra> mdz: doesnt it save taxes in US ?
[02:12] <jbailey> jdub: That doesn't scare me as much as the fact that in January we celebrated 9 years of being together...  
[02:12] <jdub> thom: you know pipka would kick your butt for that comment. :-)
[02:12] <jdub> thom: btw, measurements?
[02:12] <jbailey> In that time my sister was engaged twice, married once, had a kid and got divorced. =)
[02:12] <jdub> heh
[02:12] <mdz> ogra: no, it only saves you from filing two tax returns
[02:12] <ogra> lol
[02:13] <m_tthew> ogra: in fact, it can hurt in us taxes
[02:13] <jdub> ogra: (so only one of you needs to be able to spell)
[02:13] <mdz> HiddenWolf: marriage is on the rise in Ubuntu
[02:13] <koke> mmm, someone had asked for cd labels??
[02:13] <ogra> mdz: if i would marry my gf it would drop mine about a third 
[02:13] <HiddenWolf> mdz: in the general population, it's going down, in all minorities except gays, actually. :)
[02:13] <jdub> ogra: that's the perfect start to a proposal :-)
[02:13] <jon1012> lool
[02:14] <mdz> HiddenWolf: and except Ubuntu developers
[02:14] <jdub> ogra: "the money we save can go to a honeymoon in... um... sydney. in april. yeah."
[02:14] <mdz> a tiny but growing minority
[02:14] <ogra> jdub: remember i dont pay taxes currently ;)
[02:14] <HiddenWolf> mdz; let's hope it grows fast. :)
[02:14] <mdz> m_tthew: I don't suppose you have any SATA boxen lying around
[02:14] <thom> jdub: heh; i'll get them for you by monday
[02:15] <jdub> thom: ta. pia is very excited about your frock.
[02:15] <jbailey> rebooting it..
[02:16] <thom> actually; WHY IS IT 01:15? i was going to bed at midnight
[02:16] <thom> night
[02:16] <jbailey> It takes about three minutes to reboot from here until I see grub on the serial console.
[02:16] <jdub> gute nacht
[02:16] <ogra> jdub: GF says she wants a more romantic reason than this ....
[02:16] <dredg> ogra: tell her she's not commited enough
[02:17] <koke> lamont: a present for you ;) http://www.amedias.org/~koke/misc/ubuntu-preview-cd.svg
[02:17] <dredg> or don't... :)
[02:17] <jbailey> ogra: Weddings are not romantic.  Weddings are where you get to learn just how ugly you both can be.  It forms the bonds on which you can build romance later ;)
[02:17] <koke> lamont: you even can do export CURDATE=`date -u +%Y%m%d%H%M`; cat ubuntu-preview-cd.svg | sed -e "s/YYYYMMDDHHMM/$CURDATE/" > ubuntu-preview-cd.$CURDATE.svg
[02:18] <ogra> jbailey: its not about weddingd, its about the reason for it :)
[02:18] <thom> hrm; firefox asking what app to display something with, with the default set to firefox, could get kinda recursive
[02:18] <jdub> ogra: ha ha
[02:18] <dredg> ogra: right. cake.
[02:19] <jbailey> mdz: On the SATA HD, IDE CD system I no longer see the CD at all.
[02:19] <lamont> koke: to do what?
[02:19] <mdz> jbailey: IOW, 1440 has indeed regressed
[02:19] <mdz> and in addition, all SATA systems installed with array 6 are rendered unbootable
[02:19] <koke> put the build date in the label or wathever you want (array cd X)
[02:20] <koke> or you can remove the build line :)
[02:20] <jdub> koke: nice svg :-)
[02:20] <mdz> we may even be worse off than before! :-P
[02:21] <koke> CD's are 12cm ?
[02:21] <koke> I can't remember
[02:21] <mvo> mdz: grub failed on my system (test-install). error in in unifont it seems
[02:21] <jbailey> mdz: I don't see how they would be unbootable.  My sata system still sees all the drivers as /dev/sda* anbd /dev/sdb*
[02:21] <jbailey> Just no cdrom as part of the set.
[02:21] <mdz> jbailey: but it's not piix
[02:21] <mdz> right?
[02:21] <jbailey> This is ata_piix
[02:21] <mdz> ata_piix shouldn't be used with -25.1
[02:22] <jbailey> mdz: It is because initrd-tools is stupid and keep loading whatever you had before.
[02:22] <jbailey> But right, I see your point.  Other systems may have detected it as piix and gotten installed that way.
[02:22] <jbailey> Oy, nasty.
[02:22] <mdz> this whole hd* vs. sd* has been a disaster from the beginning
[02:22] <mdz> but to see the same hardware both ways is insane
[02:23] <jbailey> My piix laptop (all pure IDE) sees HD and cdrom fine.
[02:23] <mdz> jbailey: was your piix laptop broken with -25?
[02:23] <jbailey> mdz: No.
[02:23] <jbailey> But again, off of an upgrade, not off of a new install.
[02:24] <jbailey> These problems will show up more clearly with hotplug in the initramfs.
[02:24] <mvo> the error is (on seting up unifont): "/usr/X11R6/bin/mkfontscale: No such file for directory" 
[02:24] <mvo> has anyone seen this before?
[02:24] <mdz> mvo: never. I thought you said the problem was grub?
[02:25] <jbailey> Gotta run, back in a couple of hours.
[02:25] <mdz> it is not at all clear to me that -25.1 is an improvement over -25, overall
[02:25] <mvo> mdz: that the message from debconf, but I see on the console that the actual problem is that one package (unifont) was not fully installed and dpkg tries to configure it now
[02:25] <mdz> fixes mvo, breaks jbailey
[02:26] <mdz> mvo: check /var/log/syslog
[02:26] <dredg> mvo: xbase-clients: /usr/X11R6/bin/mkfontscale
[02:26] <mdz> or is it /var/log/messages
[02:26] <mdz>  /var/log at any rate
[02:27] <mdz> mvo: is there any earlier failure which could be responsible?
[02:28] <mvo> mdz: there is a E: Couldn't find package bterm-unifont
[02:28] <mvo> (greping for unifont)
[02:28] <mdz> mvo: which locale are you using?
[02:29] <mvo> mdz: german
[02:30] <mvo> here are some more: "E: couldn't find localization-config, jfbterm"
[02:31] <mvo> and it does not install xbase-clients (which according to dreg has mkfontscale)
[02:31] <mvo> only "cpp cpp-3.3 libfreetype6 libfs6 unifont xorg-common xutils"
[02:31] <mdz> that's because unifont doesn't depend on it
[02:31] <mdz> but unifont doesn't get installed on my systems, either
[02:32] <lamont> mdz: what can I do to be most useful?  thinking fetch the damn install image, and verify locally, eh?
[02:32] <mdz> lamont: yes
[02:32] <lamont> right. back online and off again for a bit.
[02:32] <mdz> lamont: at this point we need to figure out how bad -25.1 is and what to do about it
[02:32] <mdz> mvo: wait
[02:33] <mdz> mvo: is this stage 1 or stage 2?
[02:33] <mdz> mvo: I had assumed stage 1 because you said grub failed to install
[02:33] <mvo> mdz: stage 1
[02:33] <mdz> mvo: unifont is only installed when you use certain locales
[02:33] <mdz> as I understand it
[02:34] <mdz> thully: before you ask where the preview release is, please read ubuntu-devel or /topic
[02:34] <crimsun> mvo: When you have time, a question regarding gnome-apt in hoary/universe: I rebuilt it against apt 0.6.34, which necessitated a change to src/gdeb/main.cc:Filelist() [line 231] . I take it 'ExtractTar tpart (df->GetFile(), data->Size, "gzip");' is sufficient?
[02:34] <mvo> oh, I hit "greek" (very close to german) at the beginning, but I changed that to german afterwards
[02:34] <thully> no - I already saw the delay notice
[02:34] <mvo> crimsun: I already uploaded a fixed version
[02:34] <crimsun> d'oh
[02:34] <mvo> crimsun: it will understand both gzip and bzip2 :)
[02:34] <crimsun> mvo: thanks.
[02:34] <mdz> mvo: ok, that's what caused it
[02:34] <mdz> mvo: you found a bug
[02:35] <mvo> crimsun: but your analysis is correct, "gzip" would have done it for virtually all cases
[02:35] <mvo> mdz: a interessting one
[02:35] <mvo> mdz: I guess I report it now and try again
[02:36] <mdz> mvo: what I don't understand is why this caused grub to fail
[02:36] <bob2> so
[02:36] <bob2> the smartlink modem drivers in hoary are broken
[02:37] <bob2> since they Depend on kernel-image-blah
[02:37] <mdz> bob2: universethx
[02:37] <mvo> mdz: unifont fail and then grub is installed and dpkg tries to setup unifont (that failed before). so the run fails and debconf reports it as a grub failure
[02:37] <bob2> mdz: does this mean I get to make MOTU fix it?
[02:37] <mdz> this is the preview release crisis channel :-P
[02:37] <mdz> bob2: it means we aren't very sympathetic in this particular channel right now
[02:37] <bob2> hah, I'll get out of your way then, sorry
[02:37] <mvo> and the sleepy people channel (at least in my case)
[02:39] <ogra> mvo: mine too, but its to exciting to go to bed :)
[02:39] <mdz> mvo: file the bug against xutils
[02:39] <mdz> mvo: mkfontdir (xutils) calls mkfontscale (xbase-clients) but xutils doesn't depend on xbase-clients
[02:39] <mdz> daniels: ^^^
[02:40] <mvo> mdz: commited as #7391
[02:41] <mvo> mdz: isn't there still a bug in the installer? my language is german not greek so there is probably no need to installed the unifont package
[02:41] <mvo> ogra: exciting? *cough*
[02:42] <mdz> mvo: when you select your language, it queues packages for installation
[02:42] <mdz> there is no mechanism to undo that if you switch languages
[02:42] <mvo> mdz: aha, ok :)
[02:42] <mvo> fair enough
[02:42] <mdz> mvo: probably it should not allow you to change your language, but force you to start over
[02:42] <mdz> mvo: so probably worth a bug
[02:43] <jon1012> good night everybody :)
[02:43] <elmo> Mithrandir: ?
[02:43] <dredg> ok, excessive problems focusing. 
[02:43] <mvo> mdz: not tonight :)
[02:44] <m_tthew> mdz: I have no SATA drives anywhere
[02:44] <m_tthew> I do have SATA amd64 hardware, though.
[02:44] <ogra> bob2: put the slmodem package here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUTodo
[02:46] <mdz> my current feeling is that since -25.1 seems to have regressed #1440 anyway, we should revert the patch entirely, rather than only the half of it that we did already
[02:46] <lamont_r> s
[02:46] <mdz> thoughts?
[02:47] <lamont_r> we could do that
[02:47] <jdub> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/perl-base_5.8.4-6_i386.deb (--unpack):
[02:47] <jdub>  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/perl/5.8', which is also in package liblockfile-simple-perl
[02:48] <jdub> ^ hrm
[02:48] <ogra> jdub: i thought that was fixed....
[02:48] <jdub> meh, universe package
[02:48] <ogra> jdub: nope
[02:49] <jdub> liblockfile is
[02:49] <lamont_r> mdz: if we completely reverse it, then we get backto a very known state...
[02:49] <ogra> jdub: perl dependency bug
[02:49] <lamont_r> and at that point, we can start thuroughly exploring the various combinations of things, to deal with the issue correctly.
[02:49] <lamont_r> thoughts?
[02:50] <mdz> any other kernel team folk around to offer an opinion?
[02:50] <lamont_r> t-bone and fabbione fell over a whileback
[02:50] <lamont_r> zul is sitting at about 2050 now, should be around if he's not outand about
[02:51] <lamont_r> jbailey went to do marital things.
[02:51] <lamont_r> and so I think it is down to you, and it is down to me.
[02:52] <lamont_r> sadly, I think reverting it completely still leaves anyone who installed with -25 in a bad world, given the right (wrong) hardware
[02:52] <ogra> jdub: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-February/004964.html
[02:52] <mdz> in favour of -25.1: it's already built and ready, and it seems to fix the PIIX issue from -25
[02:52] <bob2> ogra: thanks!
[02:52] <mdz> in favour of reverting more: more tested code path
[02:52] <mdz> if we can get any responses from #1440, that'll give us more information to go on
[02:53] <mdz> lamont_r: I don't suppose so
[02:53] <jdub> ogra: ahr
[02:53] <lamont_r> ok.  back online in about 5-10 then
[02:53] <jdub> so perl-base should conflict with earlier versions or soemthing
[02:53] <ogra> jdub: since pitti rebuilt perl last week i thought it was fixed
[02:53] <mdz> jdub: hell no
[02:54] <jdub> what's the or-something?
[02:54] <mdz> a new versioned conflict in an essential package is not a place I want to go right now
[02:55] <jdub> i'm totally not talking about "right now"
[02:55] <mdz> jdub: "it's an unsupported package, too bad"
[02:55] <mdz> I suggest applying your earlier strategy for polypaudio here
[02:56] <jdub> bitterness aside, this is a different issue
[02:56] <ogra> jdub: i'll write down my experience with angry users for you ;)
[02:57] <mdz> it's the same issue
[02:59] <jdub> i think it's pretty demonstrably not
[02:59] <jdub> it's not relevant to the preview, however
[03:00] <zul> hey
[03:02] <mdz> zul: hi
[03:02] <mdz> zul: we're trying to decide whether to roll back the remainder of the patch for #1440
[03:03] <zul> is it not working?
[03:03] <mdz> zul: well, it seems that it has caused #1440 to recur anyway
[03:03] <zul> i would roll it back then
[03:04] <mdz> I had hoped to get some feedback from the people who experienced #1440, but the only example we seem to be able to get right now (one of jbailey's machines) doesn't see its CD-ROM now
[03:05] <zul> gah...then the patch doesnt fix it then we have to look to at another way then
[03:05] <lamont> moof
[03:05] <mdz> there's also the issue (commented in #1440) where people who generated initrds using -25 may not be bootable with -25.1, but I tihnk we're stuck with that one
[03:05] <lamont> ah, zul is back
[03:05] <zul> sorry i jut got back from futsal
[03:05] <jdub> hrm
[03:06] <jdub> i'm not even sure how useful my test will be
[03:06] <mdz> a new kernel build costs us something over 4 hours
[03:06] <mdz> deadline is in 10 hours
[03:06] <jdub> reports so far seem to be using same controller
[03:06] <mvo> mdz: stage1 completted, correct this time
[03:06] <mdz> mvo: thanks for testing
[03:06] <zul> is it not detecting any cd-rom or is it just the i/o corruption
[03:07] <mdz> Mar 09 17:23:21 <jbailey>       mdz: On the SATA HD, IDE CD system I no longer see the CD at all.
[03:08] <zul> bullocks
[03:08] <mdz> I believe that's the system where jbailey tested the fix for #1440, so it's pretty solid evidence
[03:08] <mdz> but it is only a single instance
[03:09] <lamont> mdz: and reverting the rest of the patch doesn't correct that issue either, right?
[03:09] <mdz> at this point I am leaning toward reverting it entirely, but am concerned about the time we lose by doing that
[03:09] <mdz> lamont: it definitely doesn't
[03:09] <zul> lamont: then you are right back at square one 
[03:09] <mdz> but it tells us that the portion of the patch we are still applying is not giving us the benefit we hoped
[03:09] <zul> i would say bite the bullet
[03:09] <mdz> and could be causing other unknown problems
[03:10] <mdz> they're both bullets :-)
[03:10] <lamont> right
[03:10] <mdz> lamont: how are those ppc builds doing?
[03:10] <mdz> that is, how long until we could actually have -25.1 all around if we wanted it?
[03:12] <lamont> mdz: 2 still chugging along
[03:12] <zul> couldnt you leave it in powerpc but disable it in 686 et al?
[03:12] <mdz> lamont: what time did they start?
[03:12] <mdz> zul: it's a possibility
[03:13] <zul> find like a really fast computer and shoe horn it in
[03:13] <lamont> 0012 and 0045 respectively
[03:13] <mdz> so nearly half finished
[03:13] <lamont> yeah
[03:14] <lamont> power4 done x2, power 3 in prog on one, done on the other.
[03:17] <mdz> hmm, jbailey's system was piix
[03:17] <mdz> I guess that explains why it regressed for him
[03:17] <mdz> I wonder if all of the #1440 problems were in fact piix systems
[03:18] <zul> they probably were because there were some positive bug reports
[03:18] <mdz> the ones where dmesg output is available, seem to be
[03:19] <mdz> so we established that the only effect of ATA_ENABLE_PATA was to cause ata_piix to be used for certain devices
[03:20] <lamont> daughter's piix/no-sata computer is fixed with 25.1
[03:20] <mdz> so if that's the bit that fixed it, that seems to imply that piix doesn't see the CD devices, but ata_piix does
[03:20] <lamont> mdz: whatever got loaded on my daughter's computer saw the CD...
[03:20] <mdz> what other drivers use libata currently?
[03:21] <mdz> lamont: as far as i know, #1440 has only ever been observed on sata systems
[03:21] <mdz> I'm leaning toward staying with -25.1
[03:22] <mdz> ATA_ENABLE_ATAPI could very well fix some instances of #1440
[03:22] <zul> http://linux-pel.blog-city.com/read/742498.htm
[03:22] <mdz> zul: or, apparently, it could break things entirely :-)
[03:23] <mdz> ok, let's back it out
[03:23] <lamont> mdz: well -25 died beautifully on my daughter's machine...
[03:23] <mdz> lamont: right, so you confirmed that the piix regression is fixed by reverting ATA_ENABLE_PATA
[03:24] <lamont> yes
[03:25] <zul> mdz: yeah i think turning into the black sheep of the kernel team thanks...;)
[03:26] <mdz> zul: hmm?
[03:28] <mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-25.2.debdiff
[03:28] <mdz> look reasonable?
[03:28] <mdz> I just copied 00list-25.1 to 00list-25.2 and removed enable_atapi_ata-2.dpatch from it
[03:28] <mdz> and copied the $#!$#@!$ hppa list
[03:28] <elmo> hmm, if we're going to have more kernel uploads, I'm going to find a 24 hour shop with kaffeine
[03:29] <mdz> elmo: it might be better to just get some sleep
[03:29] <lamont> mdz: pretty please also copy 00list-25.1.hppa
[03:30] <lamont> oh.  much clearer now
[03:30] <mdz> lamont: <mdz> and copied the $#!$#@!$ hppa list
[03:30] <zul> mdz: nothing :) we can try building a test kernel after the preview to test the enable_atapi
[03:30] <elmo> mdz: you won't be needing ftp-ish stuff for a while?
[03:30] <mdz> ok, I'm uploading this, then
[03:30] <lamont> mdz: that would be the patch I would do
[03:30] <lamont> I'll push it into baz then
[03:30] <mdz> elmo: not for hours
[03:30] <mdz> and I can do it in a pinch
[03:30] <lamont> elmo: although a little cron.daily love wouldn't hurt, once the upload is there
[03:31] <lamont> although 15 minutes on 4 hours doesn't really make much differencce
[03:31] <mdz> perhaps we shouldn't bother with powerpc
[03:32] <lamont> are there any ppc machines taht would be affected by this?
[03:33] <lamont> s/aff/eff/
[03:33] <mdz> apparently there are ppcs at the data centre with sata
[03:33] <mdz> anyway, -25.2 uploaded
[03:33] <jdub_> surely it's controllers that support both pata and sata
[03:33] <mdz> 3 minutes past cron.daily
[03:34] <jdub_> that's what most of the libata warnings have been about
[03:34] <jdub_> my sii+piix machine doesn't get any of thise
[03:34] <mdz> jdub_: neither #1440 with -25.1, nor the piix bug with -25?
[03:35] <jdub_> definitely not 1440
[03:35] <jdub_> i'll have to install -25
[03:36] <zul> is the -25.1 with the pata set back to #undef?
[03:36] <lamont> zul: yes
[03:37] <mdz> yes, and -25.2 reverts both enable_pata and enable_atapi
[03:37] <zul> ok
[03:37] <mdz> elmo: I would not object if you were to kick cron.daily to save us 20 minutes
[03:37] <lamont> zul: through the simple technique of removing the patch from 00list-25.2
[03:37] <jdub_> no, not even worth trying here, this class of bug can't affect me
[03:37] <elmo> mdz: will do, waitin for exising one to finish
[03:37] <zul> lamont: lol
[03:38] <jdub_> i have a sata only sii board, separate from my piix onboard controller
[03:38] <elmo> one day I'll get cron.daily not to actually run every 30mins - pitti's habit of leaving security crap in queue/accepted causes that atm
[03:38] <lamont> elmo: queue/pitti-crap?
[03:39] <lamont> what we need to gather is a list of all the combinations, and who (competent to test) has them
[03:40] <lamont> mdz: or do we want to let that finish?
[03:41] <mdz> lamont: no, -25.2 is the one true build
[03:41] <lamont> right
[03:41] <zul> if you enable pata in ata_piix on 0x7x111 0x24dh and 0x25a2 are turned on if im following it correctly
[03:41] <mdz> we're going to fix the fact that it applies and unapplies 27 sets of patches for each build, right?
[03:41] <lamont> wow.  killmake is pretty effective... :-)
[03:42] <mdz> zul: right
[03:42] <zul> mdz: oh hell yeah we are going to fix that
[03:42] <mdz> zul: which caused both ata_piix and piix to be loaded for the same device, which broke
[03:42] <lamont> zul: and that directly leads to 2 drivers thinking they own the dma engine, if I'm understanding this morning's discussion
[03:42] <zul> ah ok..
[03:45] <lamont> do they make CDRW's that'll do better than 10x?
[03:46] <mdz> the ones I have here say 16x-24x
[03:46] <lamont> guess I should buy some then
[03:47] <lamont> and give these 8X beasts to someone in need
[03:47] <mdz> you can have mine
[03:47] <mdz> i've given up on writable CD media
[03:47] <mdz> it's all crap, and so is cdrecord
[03:47] <lamont> you just burn cd-r's?
[03:47] <mdz> I mostly use DVD+RW; the discs I have are 4xDVD speed, so ~36xCD
[03:48] <lamont> ah, cool
[03:48] <mdz> the media is a bit more expensive (I think these were ~$2 apiece in packs of 10)
[03:48] <mdz> but it seems to have a much lower failure rate than CD-RW, so it's at least a wash, and probably cheaper overall
[03:48] <lamont> yeah
[03:49] <lamont> don't ask why I have ~75 of the 4X dvd+r disks
[03:49] <lamont> (they were on sale, you see...)
[03:49] <zul> hah cheapies you get what you pay for
[03:49] <lamont> memorex
[03:49] <lamont> work pretty well..
[03:50] <lamont> on sale == ~$40/25
[03:50] <zul> not bad
[03:50] <lamont> instead of $55 or so
[03:51] <lamont> note: debuging postinst scripts in packages that are part of base is a royal pita
[03:56] <mvo> mdz: it's fetching some packages from the net, should it do that?
[03:56] <mvo> mostly german locale stuff it seems
[03:56] <mdz> mvo: not during the main aptitude run, but for the language support, yes
[03:56] <mvo> yes, for language support, 23,7Mb
[03:56] <mdz> yes, this is a problem we must reconcile for final
[03:57] <mdz> well, if it turns out to be a problem
[03:57] <mdz> it's definitely too much for dialup users, but dialup users aren't online yet
[03:58] <mvo> ok
[03:58] <lamont> is that just because the CD has older bits, or is it pacakges that are just missing from the CD?
[03:58] <mvo> I think I'm getting close, looks pretty good so far
[04:01] <mdz> lamont: it's beacuse they're missing
[04:01] <mdz> and they're missing because they don't fit
[04:01] <lamont> ah, OK./
[04:02] <lamont> ppc building on all 3 buildd's, for better chances of success
[04:02] <elmo> lamont: eh - are the SIGILLs getting worse or are you just being melodramatic?
[04:03] <mvo> does it install all the english support too? even if I selected german? I got myspell-en-us and openoffice-*-en-gb and stuff
[04:03] <lamont> elmo: -25.1 died with a sigill, so I launched it everywhere (build/REDO is your friend...)
[04:04] <lamont> of course, the ones that didn't actually _take_ it will fail to upload, but if the one that got it fails, then there are 2 more chances of success, with only minor evil on the other end
[04:06] <lamont> elmo: and given the impending deadline, I don't want to wait for a SIGILL to start it again...
[04:06] <lamont> damn thing takes too long to build as it is..
[04:07] <mvo> should it try to load network docbook dtds from oasis-open.org?
[04:07] <dholbach> hope you all find some sleep soon
[04:07] <dholbach> i'm off to bed now
[04:08] <mvo> (in register documentation)?
[04:08] <lamont> sigh.
[04:08] <lamont> mvo: we at least got it to quit loading from there during _BUILDS_
[04:10] <mvo> and my default theme seems to be human
[04:10] <mvo> but now I'm really really tired :) I need some sleep
[04:10] <ogra> night
[04:12] <mvo> lamont, mdz: should I report bugs about "trying to fetch external dtds in register documentation and default theme is still human" ? 
[04:12] <lamont> does the server install load anything more than ubunut-base?
[04:12] <lamont> mvo: certainly
[04:12] <jdub> mvo: yes tothe first one
[04:12] <jdub> mvo: what's with the second?
[04:12] <mvo> jdub: after a fresh install my theme was human
[04:13] <jdub> that's correct
[04:14] <mvo> jdub: ah, ok. good then :)
[04:14] <lamont> mvo: I got the splash screen after an upgrade..
[04:16] <mvo> lamont: splash screen?
[04:16] <lamont> background
[04:16] <mvo> I got that too on the install 
[04:17] <mvo> ok, going to sleep now
[04:17] <mvo> bye
[04:24] <zenwhen> good luck and good night guys. 
[04:26] <tseng> mako: great, thanks
[04:29] <zul> hmm...there is ata_dma_blacklist now
[04:30] <lamont> zul: where?
[04:30] <tseng> hi zul 
[04:30] <zul> its in 2.6.11 http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/2/6/8
[04:30] <zul> hey tseng 
[04:32] <lamont> so what exactly happens in the 'Configuring apt' step?
[04:33] <jbailey> mdz: There?
[04:38] <Benoni> What's the difference between "normal" and "udeb" packages?
[04:38] <jdub> udeb packages are microdebs
[04:38] <jbailey> Benoni: udeb packages don't have to follow the usual packaging policy - they're intentionally designed for use in the installer.
[04:39] <jdub> they're very tiny, generally only used in the installer
[04:39] <jbailey> So they're usually smaller, have no docs, etc...
[04:39] <Benoni> OK, got it.  Thanks guys.
[04:43] <zul> im thinking of heading to bed...night all
[04:43] <jbailey> zul: g'night chuck.
[04:44] <zul> night jbailey 
[04:47] <wasabi> hah i just found something crazy
[04:47] <wasabi> The process to migrate packages from Debian to Ubuntu, alters the control file, no?
[04:48] <wasabi> To stuff them in universe/ or multiverse/ right?
[04:48] <wasabi> Or is that done with an override or something?
[04:49] <wasabi> Hmm, actually this is very odd. =/
[04:49] <elmo> wasabi: no that's overridden centrally
[04:49] <wasabi> (working with subversion, which regenerates debian/control at build time)
[04:49] <elmo> automated syncs maintain the Section: entry from the original debian/control
[04:49] <wasabi> Okay.
[04:50] <wasabi> does it recompile the package on Ubuntu's buildds?
[04:50] <wasabi> Or just copy over the .debs?
[04:50] <elmo> former
[04:50] <elmo> we only ever do source uploads
[04:50] <wasabi> Well that makes little sense.
[04:50] <elmo> it makes a heck of a lot of sense
[04:51] <wasabi> Oh I see. Grr.
[04:51] <wasabi> Naw, this Subversion package is giving me fits.
[04:51] <wasabi> Because of it's regeneration of control.
[04:51] <wasabi> It creates Build-Deps... at build time.
[04:52] <mdz> jbailey: yes
[04:52] <jbailey> mdz: See #u-kernel...
[04:53] <mdz> oh no :-/
[04:53] <elmo> argh more #*u* channels
[04:53] <wasabi> elmo, how often are they updated?
[04:54] <elmo> wasabi: which updated?
[04:54] <mdz> jbailey: so in fact we have no indication of a regression in 1440
[04:54] <wasabi> Oh I think I get it. This subversion package was probably uploaded directly to main.
[04:54] <wasabi> So it just needs an update
[04:54] <wasabi> nobody put -ubuntu at the end of the version, so it's confusing the hell out of me.
[04:55] <elmo> subversion | 1.1.1-2ubuntu3 |         hoary | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[04:55] <elmo> err, that?
[04:55] <wasabi> Yeah. It's 1.1.3 in Debian now.
[04:55] <wasabi> Wait.
[04:55] <wasabi> I am disoriented. =(
[04:55] <jbailey> mdz: Right.  I have scd0/sr0 on that system.
[04:56] <wasabi> elmo, forget everything I said. I am confused. =)
[04:56] <jbailey> mdz: The two SATA systems have a null modem cable between them, I log in to both when I'm doing kernel upgrades so I can watch the serial console.
[04:57] <mdz> jbailey: it's too late now; we'll have to live with 1440 for preview
[04:59] <mdz> lamont: how are the 25.2 builds going?
[04:59] <jbailey> mdz: Ah, did you revert to -24?
[05:00] <mdz> jbailey: no, we reverted the remainder of the patch from #1440
[05:00] <elmo> i386 just finished
[05:00] <jbailey> Ah shit, sorry about that.  *sigh*
[05:01] <mdz> I was unable to get any confirmation from anyone else with an SATA system regarding 1440
[05:01] <mdz> so all we had to go on was your example
[05:01] <elmo> amd64 is installed
[05:01] <jbailey> I'm surprised at how rare of a configuration it is.
[05:01] <mdz> piix doesn't seem to be as popular as it once was
[05:02] <lamont> elmo: and uploaded
[05:02] <elmo> yeah, I haven't seen any since I left my old job - but there, I had nothing but PIIX
[05:03] <mdz> so another ~2 hours for powerpc
[05:04] <lamont> adare is 4/6+ done
[05:06] <mdz> lamont: will you kick off the d-i builds as the kernels are installed?
[05:06] <lamont> sure
[05:07] <lamont> amd64 d-i launched
[05:08] <m_tthew> eta for testable builds is ~2h (right now is 2008 UTC-8)
[05:08] <m_tthew> ?\
[05:09] <mdz> ETA for testable i386 CDs is <1 hour
[05:09] <m_tthew> good timing
[05:14] <elmo> you should be good, judging by the lights on jackass
[05:17] <lamont> nope. i386 didn't make the last cron.daily run...
[05:17] <lamont> and is still waiting
[05:20] <lamont> di running on i386
[05:21] <lamont> thanks elmo
[05:25] <lamont> kewlness
[05:26] <schweeb> lamont: whoa neat
[05:27] <lamont> postfix-tls's cert just got much easer. :-)
[05:27] <schweeb> wonder if that's what courier-imap uses to create its cert
[05:46] <Benoni> I have a tricky packaging question for you folks.
[05:46] <Benoni> I have a non-standard build process that generates some extra debug-related information.
[05:47] <Benoni> On Fedora, there's a convention that filenames in debug info should be rewritten to look for source under "/usr/src/debug/package-x.y.z" instead of wherever your source tree really was a build time.
[05:47] <Benoni> Does Ubuntu have a similar convention?  Should I be rewriting source paths in some similar way?
[05:48] <jbailey> Benoni: No, gdb can generally handle whatever you give it, and has search statements otherwise.
[05:48] <Benoni> jbailey: OK, so wherever the build tree happened to be on the buildd box, that's what ships out in the debug information?
[05:50] <jbailey> Benoni: Yeah.  In practice I don't think I've ever even noticed it though.  Usually if I have a source tree handy I've always just told gdb where to find the info.
[05:50] <Benoni> OK, cool.  Well, it's easy enough to just disable this extra rewrite functonality in my tools.
[05:50] <Benoni> Thanks for the info.
[05:52] <jdub> yo Benoni 
[05:52] <jdub> was off getting lunch, glad you got help here :)
[05:52] <Benoni> Hey, jdub.
[05:52] <jbailey> jdub: He had to settle for the other Jeff. ;)
[05:52] <jdub> heh
[05:52] <Benoni> jbailey gets a gold star for helping strangers with weird questions.
[05:53] <Benoni> Or weirdos with strange questions.
[05:56] <elmo> lamont: ?
[05:56] <elmo> no i386 d-i yet?
[05:59] <lamont> uploaded now
[05:59] <lamont> with seconds to spare - thanks
[06:00] <lamont> when cron.daily runs on top of a d-i daily build, sick things happen
[06:01] <elmo> dude seconds to spare suck when it's byhand :p
[06:01] <lamont> doh.
[06:02] <lamont> OTOH, adare as 5/6 kernels built
[06:18] <fabbione> morning
[06:18] <lamont> morning fabbione
[06:18] <fabbione> i can see that it wasn't enough the PATA
[06:18] <lamont> mdz?
[06:18] <fabbione> what was the problem with ATAPI?
[06:19] <lamont> elmo: I assume the byhand is done for i386?
[06:19] <elmo> yes
[06:19] <lamont> fabbione: so -25.1 was, um, worse
[06:19] <lamont> so -25.2 is the new plan.
[06:19] <lamont> == 25.1 with the rest of the patch gone
[06:20] <lamont> mdz: amd64/ia64 can build images if you're so inclined...
[06:20] <fabbione> worste in what sense?
[06:20] <lamont> mdz: and you'll want new livecd rootfs'es as well, I assume
[06:20] <lamont> problem still existed for at least jbailey's machine (WTH??), and etc, etc,
[06:20] <lamont> see scrollback
[06:20] <lamont> this channel, for the most part
[06:21] <fabbione> i don't keep irc scrollback.. sorry
[06:21] <fabbione> but ok
[06:21] <fabbione> i will dig the logs later
[06:21] <lamont> around 2600 UTC :)
[06:22] <fabbione> so we get 1440 back
[06:22] <lamont> basically, < -25 was known b0rkage (see #1440).  -25 had big issues, -25.1 didn't seem to fix #1440, but was yet another set of new and therefore scary code if it didn't fix #1440, so we decided to codify the regression on #1440
[06:23] <lamont> declared to be "not a preview-stopper, but is a release-showstopper:"
[06:23] <lamont> well, release critical anyway
[06:23] <fabbione> make sense
[06:24] <fabbione> is it already in cd images?
[06:25] <lamont> built on i386,amd64; building on ppc
[06:25] <lamont> d-i upload in the archive for i386,amd64.
[06:25] <lamont> mdz is go for CD build
[06:25] <fabbione> roger that
[06:25] <lamont> but ENOMDZ recently....
[06:26] <lamont> ppc is building the .o's for kernel #6/6 - then come the modules, of course.
[06:29] <fabbione> yeah
[06:29] <fabbione> we should hardcode the buildd names or something in debian/rules to enable CONCURRENT_JOBS
[06:29] <fabbione> so it can fork on the buildd
[06:29] <fabbione> or check for /CurrentlyBuilding
[06:29] <fabbione> and take appropriate actions
[06:29] <fabbione> that would speed up hell of a lot
[06:30] <fabbione> lamont: did you merge 25.2 in baz?
[06:31] <fabbione> i guess not
[06:34] <lamont> not yet.
[06:34] <lamont> it's on my list
[06:34] <lamont> total difference is to drop enable_....-2 from 00list-25.2
[06:34] <fabbione> ok if you don't get around it before you crash, i will do it immediatly after preview
[06:35] <fabbione> i need to sync at least pre26
[06:35] <lamont> and btw, please change your umask to 002 on rookery
[06:35] <lamont> (thom covered for you...)
[06:35] <fabbione> ah right
[06:36] <lamont> mainline has 25.1, wasn't sure what the state of --pre26 was, and if you had done that merge or not.
[06:36] <fabbione> no i didn't
[06:36] <fabbione> i did commit only the bits i had local
[06:36] <lamont> ok.  if you don't beat me to it, I'll do the merge once I wake up again
[06:37] <fabbione> done
[06:42] <fabbione> no.. done nothing
[06:42] <fabbione> that was supposed to go in daily report :-)
[06:42] <fabbione> mdz: WAKE UP MY LITTLE TINY BOLD FRIEND!
[06:43] <lamont> heh
[06:46] <jdub> fabbione: bold is certainly true, but i think you might mean bald? :)
[06:46] <fabbione> isn't bold = without any hair on the head?
[06:47] <jdub> that's bald
[06:47] <fabbione> that is actually what i am becoming.. but naturally
[06:47] <jdub> bold is like courageous
[06:47] <fabbione> ah ok
[06:47] <jdub> both are correct ;)
[06:47] <fabbione> than i meant BALD!
[06:47] <fabbione> mdz: WAKE UP MY LITTLE TINY BOLD AND BALD FRIEND!
[06:51] <m_tthew> baldness increases the bandwidth of the brain
[06:51] <m_tthew> :)
[06:59] <fabbione> doko: i can confirm that gcc-4 requires cairo 0.3.0-1 to build
[06:59] <fabbione> doko: at least to pass the point where it was failing 2 days ago
[06:59] <fabbione> so it might be a good idea to bump the build-dep
[06:59] <fabbione> but please don't upload just for it :-)
[07:04] <lamont> looks like maybe a ppc kernel in about 30 minutes
[07:05] <lamont> yeah, just in time to miss cron.daily. :-(
[07:05] <fabbione> humpf
[07:06] <fabbione> i will start merging 25.1 and 25.2 in pre26
[07:07] <fabbione> so i can keep going
[07:07] <lamont> cool
[07:07] <fabbione> or do you prefer to do it in another way?
[07:07] <fabbione> like branching 25.1 and let baz handling the merge?
[07:07] <lamont> 25.1 is already on mainline (and kernel-debian--mainline-2,6,10-25--0--patch-1)
[07:08] <lamont> if you just check the 25.2 diff in on mainline, and then merge from mainline to --pre26, you'll be there
[07:08] <fabbione> i will need to figure how to do that :-)
[07:08] <lamont> of course, when you check -25.2 into mainline, you want to branch  kernel-debian--mainline-2,6,10-25,2--0 as well
[07:08] <lamont> simple.
[07:09] <lamont> start with a checkout of kernel-debian--mainline--2.6.10
[07:09] <lamont> apply the chagnges for -25.2
[07:09] <lamont> baz commit
[07:10] <lamont> baz branch  kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/kernel-debian--mainline--2.6.10 kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/kernel-debian--mainline-2,6,10-25,1--0
[07:10] <fabbione> ok
[07:10] <lamont> baz switch kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/kernel-debian--pre26--2.6.10
[07:10] <lamont> baz merge kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/kernel-debian--mainline--2.6.10
[07:11] <lamont> clean up debian/changelog from the merge, and commit
[07:11] <lamont> well, with a baz resolved --all in the middle of that last line...
[07:12] <mdz> fabbione: morning
[07:12] <mdz> on which architectures are we ready for CD builds?
[07:12] <fabbione> hey mdz
[07:12] <lamont> i386, amd64
[07:12] <lamont> ppc needs about another 30 min  or so
[07:13] <fabbione> ppc is teh sux :)
[07:13] <zwol> speaking of CDs, a question
[07:13] <zwol> the CD has emacs on it
[07:13] <zwol> the CD has lots of cool python stuff on it
[07:13] <mdz> I had a short nap so I can stay up for a bit
[07:13] <zwol> why does the CD not have the emacs mode for editing python on it?
[07:13] <mdz> i386 and amd64 CDs building
[07:14] <fabbione> cool
[07:14] <fabbione> i386 would be fine for testing
[07:14] <mdz> zwol: it does, "the" emacs mode for python comes with emacs
[07:14] <fabbione> since it was the one really affected by the problem
[07:15] <zwol> mdz: uh, no it doesn't.  you have to install the python-mode package, which is in main but not on the CD.
[07:15] <zwol> (let me be specific: I am referring to emacs21, not xemacs.
[07:15] <zwol> )
[07:15] <elmo> we only support emacs21 anyways
[07:16] <fabbione> morning elmo
[07:16] <zwol> yeah, i didn't remember seeing xemacs on the cd
[07:16] <elmo> but zwol's right - we should probably promote it to ship, it's only like 46k
[07:16] <elmo> (it == python-mode)
[07:16] <elmo> fabbione: meh
[07:16] <fabbione> elmo: was it good to sleep on the DC floor ?
[07:17] <zwol> elmo: i'd be much obliged.  editing python in emacs without the major mode for it is all kinds of no fun.
[07:17] <elmo> fabbione: they're a classy DC, they have sofas and stuff
[07:17] <fabbione> elmo: ah...
[07:17] <mdz> emacs is only on the CD because it's relatively large
[07:17] <fabbione> that rocks
[07:17] <mdz> as a convenience so you don't have to download it
[07:17] <elmo> zwol: sorry, I was just agreeing with you - that doesn't mean it'll actually happen ;)
[07:18] <mdz> Kamion made some magic to allow install CD builds without jigdo, but I haven't investigated that yet
[07:18] <lamont> module build
[07:19] <zwol> i don't personally care all that much since i have no plans to install ubuntu again in the near future, but i do think it would be nice.
[07:20] <mdz> zwol: did you install on a machine which is not connected to the Internet?
[07:21] <zwol> mdz: yes, i installed on a laptop while sitting in a cafe, far away from all sources of connectivity.
[07:21] <zwol> it was only a problem till I got home, but i did tear my hair out for a little while.
[07:22] <Treenaks> lamont: wrong map type?
[07:22] <zwol> i'm mainly suggesting it because it seems consistent with the general policy of putting lots of python goodness on the CD.
[07:23] <mdz> the python goodness on the CD is there because it's installed by default
[07:23] <lamont> Treenaks: very last thing in the postinst.  during debootsrap
[07:24] <mdz> we might be able to squeeze python-mode because it's tiny, but then again, it's also possible that emacs will get pushed off the CD in favour of more language support
[07:24] <schweeb> lamont: hrm, have you tried postalias directly?
[07:24] <lamont> schweeb: shouldn't matter
[07:24] <schweeb> yea, wouldn't think so
[07:24] <mdz> ARGH it's building source CDs
[07:25] <elmo> mdz: eww
[07:27] <elmo> oh dear god
[07:27] <elmo> (system) cron.daily time is a REALLY bad time to be in the data centre on little sleep
[07:27] <elmo> I have 300 hard drive lights flashing at me manically - I feel like I'm having a semi-permanent fit or something
[07:28] <lamont> elmo: lol
[07:29] <srbaker> how do i turn off screen locking when i close my laptop lid
[07:29] <lifeless> elmo: lol - want to /become/ epileptic ?
[07:29] <zwol> edit /etc/acpi/lid.sh?
[07:31] <schweeb> srbaker: /etc/default/acpi-support
[07:31] <schweeb> i believe
[07:32] <srbaker> thanks
[07:33] <srbaker> lid.sh is what she was looking for
[07:42] <mdz> i386 and amd64 install CDs are ready
[07:42] <mdz> fabbione: ^^
[07:42] <fabbione> ok
[07:42] <fabbione> i can test only i386
[07:42] <fabbione> client: nothing to do: perhaps you need to specify some filenames or the --recursive option?
[07:42] <fabbione> ok rsyncing now
[07:42] <mdz> well, they're built and syncing to the mirrors
[07:42] <fabbione> it was still copying to archive i guess
[07:42] <mdz> could be a short time before they're available
[07:43] <fabbione> fetching now
[07:43] <mdz> lamont: did ppc miss cron.daily?
[07:46] <lamont> Mar 10 06:44:43 buildd-mail: Moved linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-25.2 to upload-hoary
[07:46] <lamont> Mar 10 06:45:31 buildd-uploader: 1 jobs to upload in upload-hoary: linux-source-2.6.10_2.6.10-25.2_powerpc.changes
[07:46] <lamont> Mar 10 06:45:40 buildd-uploader: dupload successful.
[07:46] <lamont> sorry - I was 45 seconds slow there.
[07:46] <lamont> it's waiting for the _NEXT_ cron.daily
[07:50] <fabbione> mdz: burning now
[07:50] <fabbione> it will take a little while
[07:51] <mdz> ok
[07:55] <mdz> pitti should be here soon to build new langpacks
[07:56] <mdz> but we don't actually need those in order to release preview
[07:56] <fabbione> aren't they borked?
[07:56] <m_tthew> i386 install burning
[07:57] <mdz> fabbione: they're borked for upgrades, not for new installs
[07:57] <fabbione> ah ok
[08:03] <pitti> Hi folks
[08:03] <pitti> Mr. Langpack breaker greets you
[08:04] <pitti> mdz: still here?
[08:04] <mdz> pitti: yes
[08:05] <mdz> pitti: hello my langpack breaking friend
[08:05] <pitti> mdz: mvo phoned me
[08:05] <mdz> pitti: I sent you email also
[08:05] <pitti> mdz: sorry, was offline yesterday night
[08:05] <Mithrandir> elmo: pong
[08:05] <lamont> pitti: btw, null component name in /CurrentlyBuilding is fatal.
[08:06] <pitti> mdz: I almost feared that we must ship an empty update package :-(
[08:06] <pitti> mdz: that means we can't ship update packages until this dpkg bug is solved?
[08:06] <mdz> pitti: correct, see #7401
[08:07] <pitti> ah, imported to our bz now..
[08:07] <daniels> mdz: ok, thanks
[08:08] <mdz> elmo: you took care of the powerpc d-i upload already?
[08:08] <daniels> svenl: yes, but how do you detect a pegasos, exactly?  note that I'm still very, very uncomfortable with this hack.
[08:08] <pitti> mdz: but why a versioned pre-depends wouldn't work?
[08:09] <pitti> lamont: what do you mean my fatal? does it cause FTBFS?
[08:09] <mdz> pitti: oh, I think it might, now that you changed the package layout
[08:10] <pitti> mdz: oh, no, now I see why it doesn't work
[08:10] <mdz> pitti: I was thinking it would be impossible because you would need to update the existing package to increment the version, which would defeat the point
[08:10] <mdz> oh, right, still won't work
[08:11] <pitti> right, the error msg was about updating the -base package while an older -update package is still installed
[08:11] <lamont> pitti: yes
[08:11] <lamont> mdz: d-i build launched on ross
[08:11] <lamont> mdz: you want livecd rootfses yes?
[08:11] <Benoni> Where would I find a list of section names suitable for use in the "Section:" field of "debian/control" files?
[08:11] <pitti> lamont: this is actually a feature, you enabled it with invalid_currentlybuilding = fail
[08:11] <lamont> no. that's not in the file
[08:12] <pitti> ?
[08:12] <pitti>     readctrl "/CurrentlyBuilding" "Component"
[08:12] <pitti>     if [ -z "$RET" ] ; then
[08:12] <pitti>         echo "pkgstriptranslations: inconsistent /CurrentlyBuilding file, Component: value is empty" >&2
[08:12] <pitti>         [ "$ignore_invalid_cb" ]  || exit 1
[08:12] <pitti>     fi
[08:12] <lamont> grep invalid build-hoary/chroot-hoary/etc/pkgstriptranslations.conf
[08:12] <lamont> buildd@adare:~ $ 
[08:12] <mdz> lamont: yes, please
[08:12] <pitti> lamont: oh sorry, the default is "fail", not "ignore". my bad
[08:13] <mdz> pitti: so since this problem does not affect new installs, it might be better to wait until we have built the final preview images
[08:13] <pitti> lamont: does it actually do any harm?
[08:13] <lamont> pkgstriptranslations: inconsistent /CurrentlyBuilding file, Component: value is empty
[08:13] <lamont> dh_builddeb: command returned error code 256
[08:13] <lamont> that'd be harm.
[08:15] <pitti> mdz: you mean, build new langpacks after the preview?
[08:15] <mdz> pitti: yes
[08:15] <pitti> mdz: this would still leave some upgraders from array affected
[08:15] <pitti> however, interesting that this was never reported so far
[08:15] <mdz> pitti: yes, but they have been affected for some time already, a few hours shouldn't make much difference
[08:15] <pitti> we had several langpack updates in the past
[08:16] <mdz> it is pure luck which package is unpacked first
[08:16] <pitti> mdz: okay, fine
[08:17] <pitti> lamont: why would it be harm? is the Component field empty on purpose sometimes?
[08:17] <lamont> if I stop the buildd and restart it, sbuild looses that information
[08:17] <pitti> ah
[08:17] <lamont> which is how I discovered that it's fatal...
[08:18] <fabbione> lamont: that's an error in buildd
[08:18] <fabbione> i figured that buildd doesn't update the Component when you stop/start
[08:18] <lamont> fabbione: no, it's a design error in how we implemented the pkg striptranslations
[08:18] <pitti> lamont: okay, so what do you prefer? changing the logic not to fail (i. e. invalidcurrentlybuilding defaults to "ignore")
[08:18] <lamont> fabbione: buildd isn't even _INVOLVED_ when you stop/start
[08:18] <pitti> lamont: or changing the conffile to explicitly set it to ignore?
[08:19] <lamont> pitti: don't worry about it
[08:19] <fabbione> lamont: well the part of sbuild of whatever that is supposed to write the Component: leaves it blank if you stop/start
[08:19] <lamont> right.  because it doesn't record that information in build/REDO when it stops, so it can't recover it
[08:20] <lamont> and I'm not going to worry about it tonight - about to fall over
[08:20] <fabbione> lamont: good night
[08:20] <pitti> mdz: reagarding the -home / issue, shall I fix it for preview or after?
[08:20] <pitti> lamont: night
[08:21] <mdz> pitti: after
[08:21] <fabbione> bah
[08:21] <fabbione> bad burn
[08:22] <lamont> oh, I don't get to fall over yet, I'm just ready to
[08:22] <mdz> pitti: well...
[08:22] <mdz> pitti: how fast can you have packages ready?
[08:22] <pitti> mdz: hoary's adduser does not do this anyway...
[08:23] <mdz> pitti: ok, definitely wait then
[08:23] <pitti> mdz: building and uploading them takes 10 minutes
[08:23] <pitti> mdz: I'm more concerned about _which_ directory they should actually get
[08:23] <pitti> mdz: /var/cache/scratchdir ...
[08:23] <pitti> mdz: chown'ing /tmp or any other normal directory would be bad, too
[08:24] <mdz> pitti: I think the adduser defaults are fine
[08:24] <pitti> mdz: on the box you experienced this, did it happen to be a woody upgrade or so?
[08:24] <pitti> mdz: the warty version does not chown either
[08:24] <mdz> pitti: no, it was a debootstrapped warty, I believe
[08:24] <pitti> hmm, odd
[08:24] <mdz> can everyone here check the ownership of the root directory on their Ubuntu systems and see if it's hosed?
[08:25] <pitti> mdz: already checked my systems, all are ok
[08:25] <fabbione> mdz: ???
[08:25] <pitti> ls -ld /
[08:25] <mdz> fabbione: there is a potential problem with hpoj and cupsys where the ownership of / is changed
[08:25] <mdz> pitti: bug#?
[08:25] <pitti> https://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7365
[08:25] <fabbione> drwxr-xr-x  25 root root 1024 2005-03-10 08:24 /
[08:27] <pitti> mdz: sudo adduser --system --ingroup lpadmin foobar
[08:27] <pitti> mdz: -> then I get /home/foobar created
[08:28] <pitti> mdz: I really need --no-create-home 
[08:28] <mdz> pitti: oh, interesting
[08:28] <mdz> --no-create-home without --home seems fine
[08:29] <pitti> yes
[08:29] <mdz> looking at /etc/passwd, that seems to be what syslog, ntp, etc. do
[08:29] <pitti> mdz: then the home will still be /home/foobar, but it cannot chown it because it doesn' exist
[08:29] <pitti> nice hack :-)
[08:30] <pitti> mdz: okay, your call, can upload any time
[08:31] <mdz> pitti: after preview
[08:31] <mdz> since it seems that very few people actually experience the bug
[08:31] <mdz> and we will need to have postinst fix the root directory anyway
[08:36] <pitti>         if dpkg --compare-versions "$2" lt-nl "1.1.23-1ubuntu10"; then
[08:36] <pitti>             chown 0:0 /
[08:36] <pitti>         fi
[08:37] <lamont> drwxr-xr-x  25 hpojlp lp 4096 2005-03-05 09:12 /
[08:37] <lamont> pitti: and while you're in hpoj... has it's init.d been lsb-ized yet?
[08:38] <pitti> lamont: no yet, can do this if I'm at it
[08:38] <lamont> that'd make one less upload for me, fixing them.
[08:44] <mdz> hmm
[08:45] <mdz> has the powerpc upload arrived too late for elmo?
[08:45] <mdz> it looks like we may have lost him
[08:46] <mdz> fabbione: how is the test going?
[08:46] <fabbione> mdz: i am having some problems to burn the CD
[08:46] <fabbione> either these medias are the suck
[08:46] <fabbione> or my dvd burner just died
[08:46] <mdz> powerpc byhanded
[08:48] <m_tthew> the i386 install here is in aptitude, grinding away at the HD
[08:49] <fabbione> it seems a frigging problem with linux...
[08:49] <lamont> mdz: you tried burning slowly?
[08:49] <fabbione> bah
[08:49] <fabbione> lamont: i can't go slower than x2
[08:49] <fabbione> it doesn't even blank the disk now
[08:49] <fabbione> at least not under linux
[08:49] <lamont> heh
[08:49] <lamont> i386 cloop done
[08:50] <lamont> (and kubuntu building there)
[08:50] <mdz> m_tthew: 06c9fb5aa557a916c4e91cc8f18cbae8  hoary-install-i386.iso ?
[08:50] <m_tthew> pretty sure, lemme dbl-check
[08:51] <m_tthew> 06c9fb5aa557a916c4e91cc8f18cbae8  hoary-install-i386.iso
[08:51] <lamont> amd64 compressing
[08:51] <lamont> don't even ask about ppc
[08:52] <m_tthew> :)
[08:52] <pitti> lamont: erm, hpoj's init script is perl, hard to use /lib/lsb/init-functions..
[08:52] <lamont> oh, lovely
[08:52] <lamont> use /lib/lsb/init-functions.pl :-)
[08:52] <pitti> oh, cool
[08:52] <lamont> pitti: I don't think it exists
[08:52] <pitti> ENOENT
[08:52] <Mithrandir> you might need to _write_ /lib/lsb/init-functions.pl first, though
[08:52] <lamont> so you'll need to write it. :-)
[08:53] <pitti> *sigh*
[08:53] <daniels> perl?!?
[08:53] <T-None> gack
[08:53] <pitti> it's not a standard init script, it's a huuge program that includes installer, configurator, and a coffe machine
[08:53] <Mithrandir> daniels: it's such a evil init script, I'm not sure you want to rewrite it in shell, iirc.
[08:53] <mdz> yeah, it's this crazy script that upstream ships
[08:53] <mdz> and it's used as the init script
[08:53] <lamont> perl: for when you're all out of syrup of ipecac
[08:53] <Mithrandir> pitti: you forgot the space shuttle launchpad.
[08:54] <mdz> probably it should be moved into /usr/sbin and wrapped by a real init script
[08:54] <pitti> oh, right
[08:54] <lamont> see - mdz _is_ a party pooper. :-)
[08:56] <T-None> you guys are sick in your heads ;)
[08:56] <lamont> T-None: see, I _told_ you it's a fun group
[08:58] <mdz> has anyone else noticed that ubuntu in a mirror is "utnudu"?
[08:58] <T-None> lamont: hehe ;)
[08:58] <mdz> or only those of us who are lacking sleep?
[08:58] <lamont> mdz: lol
[08:58] <pitti> mdz: this sounds even less comprehensible 
[08:58] <mdz> I like words which are perfectly formed in the mirror, and our logo font has that property
[08:58] <T-None> Mithrandir: i'm letting the box up for whenever you can use it, btw :)
[08:58] <pitti> mdz: the "t" is wrong, though :-)
[08:59] <lamont> ah, I see that elmo did grab ubunut.com
[08:59] <mdz> only a bit
[08:59] <mdz> it is stylized :-)
[08:59] <Mithrandir> T-None: thanks.
[08:59] <lamont> amd64 is done
[08:59] <lamont> ppc should _start_ in about 5-10 minutes
[08:59] <T-None> lamont: btw, do you *ever* sleep? :)
[09:00] <lamont> T-None: on occasion
[09:03] <Mithrandir> T-None: shhh!  Don't make him feel unwelcome.
[09:03] <T-None> lol
[09:04] <dilinger> pitti: hey, i don't suppose you know anything about http://linux.bkbits.net:8080/linux-2.6/cset@41fbf0fcleNsr1YP92sb8eg7m1w90A  ?
[09:04] <amu> moin
[09:04] <pitti> Hi amu
[09:04] <pitti> dilinger: no, indeed not. Do you? :-)
[09:05] <pitti> dilinger: security relevant?
[09:05] <dilinger> no, i just noticed it.  not sure if it depends on 41fbef32tPWgju_Vydfojr8LR1ZnEQ, and whether it's something that a user could ever trigger
[09:07] <pitti> http://www.linuxense.com/challenge/
[09:07] <pitti> fabbione: ^ do you think we have 'nuff exploits to try? :-)
[09:09] <daniels> jdub: dbus 0.23.3 (.3 just fixes a few horrific memory leaks in the mono stuff, really) for hoary.  i'd like to do it.
[09:09] <fabbione> pitti: ehhehe probably we do :-)
[09:11] <amu> hey pitti, i found libboost, remember we're looking for it, a while ago   
[09:11] <mdz> waiting for d-i stuff to sync up, then I'm going to build a full set of images
[09:11] <fabbione> pitti: too bad the context is now
[09:11] <fabbione> pitti: we have not enough time to work on it
[09:11] <mdz> with jigdo and all
[09:11] <mdz> which should hopefully be a real candidate
[09:12] <pitti> fabbione: no, just found the announcement on full-disclosure
[09:12] <mdz> lamont: ETA for livefs builds x3?
[09:12] <fabbione> arch_commit: unable to acquire revision lock (internal error in archive-pfs.c(pfs_lock_revision))
[09:12] <fabbione> BAH
[09:13] <fabbione> how do i fix that crap???
[09:14] <pitti> fabbione: you need to fix the ++revision-lock/+contents dir in the latest patch
[09:14] <lamont> 2 done.
[09:14] <lamont> ppc will be starting soon
[09:14] <fabbione> pitti: how and where?
[09:14] <pitti> fabbione: and remove any ++revision-lock-held-foo crap in the directory which holds all the patches
[09:14] <pitti> fabbione: which is the latest committed patch?
[09:14] <fabbione> 7 probably
[09:15] <pitti> fabbione: then go into .../patch-7/
[09:15] <lamont> mdz: I was afraid to kill the one that launched at 0615 until it finished.
[09:15] <lamont> ppc has started.
[09:15] <pitti> fabbione: is the repo on a server I have access to?
[09:16] <fabbione> rookery
[09:16] <lamont> and now that cron.daily and a kernel build aren't competing with the livecdfs build, it should finish in much < 2 hours... :=(
[09:16] <fabbione> lamont/public_html/Archives/kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/kernel-debian--pre26--2.6.10
[09:16] <pitti> fabbione: you need to rm -r ++revision-lock-held--patch-7--fabbione@canonical.com--429de7a23f250
[09:17] <pitti> fabbione: and mkdir -p patch-7/++revision-lock/+contents
[09:17] <fabbione> THIS IS THE SUX
[09:18] <pitti> fabbione: did you happen to abort a commit?
[09:18] <fabbione> pitti: yes
[09:18] <fabbione> it is still the sucks
[09:18] <pitti> fabbione: okay, seems to have worked
[09:18] <fabbione> yes
[09:19] <pitti> fabbione: beat up the baz guys... :-)
[09:19] <lamont> baz lock-revison -b <version-spec>
[09:19] <fabbione> oh i will
[09:19] <lamont> don't remove files in the archive
[09:19] <pitti> lamont: this command almost never works for me...
[09:19] <lamont> works for me
[09:20] <lamont> fabbione: fwiw, those were left over in mainline as well, and those were the files that I had to have thom fix for me.
[09:20] <lamont> you aren't doing something stupid like killing commits in the middle of the log edit are you?
[09:20] <fabbione> lamont: i did kill the commit at gpg sign
[09:20] <fabbione> i never edit the commit log. i always use -s'
[09:21] <lamont> yeah - that case is the trivial lock-revision -b will fix it case.
[09:21] <fabbione> it just shouldn't happen
[09:22] <lamont> ok.  well, that'd be a #arch thing
[09:22] <fabbione> yes i know
[09:23] <lamont> mdz: ppc is in debootstrap...
[09:23] <lamont> once http://adare.buildd/~buildd/livecd/ubuntu/latest/livecd.ubuntu.manifest exists, the image is golden
[09:24] <lamont> hrm.. guess I should stay up until it's done.
[09:26] <m_tthew> i386 install successful and smooth like butter
[09:26] <m_tthew> some sort of space jellyfish graces the desktop
[09:28] <fabbione> i am afraid my dvd burner is dead
[09:30] <svenl> daniels: if you are uncofortable with the hack, then port the real solution from the debian X radeon driver.
[09:31] <svenl> daniels: and the pegasos detection i told you how to do it in the bug report.
[09:31] <svenl> daniels: you only need to look for "machine         : CHRP Pegasos" in /proc/cpuinfo.
[09:34] <svenl> daniels: if [ "`grep 'machine.*CHRP Pegasos' /proc/cpuinfo`" ] ; then echo PEGASOS; else echo not pegasos; fi
[09:34] <svenl> daniels: or a variation thereof.
[09:37] <svenl> daniels: damn, www.ubuntu.org seems unreachable, too bad bugzilla has not propper email bug-reporting enabled.
[09:38] <mdz> new install CDs are up, x3
[09:38] <mdz> hmm, not yet
[09:38] <svenl> daniels: just get the bustype hack in, and i will get you the xresprobe fix. yours is the less work, and probably a 5 minutes fix.
[09:38] <mdz> silly source CDs
[09:39] <mdz> m_tthew: thanks
[09:40] <m_tthew> np, I'll give the new build a spin too, soon as it's there to rsync
[09:40] <lamont> ppc is in lang-pack/locale
[09:42] <mdz> I think we might need to do one after this, unfortunately
[09:43] <mdz> if we want proper volume labels
[09:43] <mdz> I'll check with Kamion when he gets up
[09:45] <mdz> svenl: www.ubuntu.org is not our website
[09:46] <svenl> yeah, i meant .com, but i guess it was just the firewall here playing tricks.
[09:46] <svenl> mdz: still having no email interface to the BTS sucks bigtime, which is my main grip against bugzilla.
[09:47] <mdz> svenl: we aren't going to put much more work into making bugzilla better, since we'll be moving to malone
[09:47] <hiweed> hey all
[09:47] <mdz> for which a proper email interface is planned
[09:47] <svenl> BTW, you have a gparted package, right, but gparted is not in debian yet, and the package is a different one from the gparted package in debian svn repo ?
[09:47] <svenl> mdz: ah, cool.
[09:47] <hiweed> where can I get the Ubuntu's Debian-Installer source codes? it has some bugs and I wanna fix them.
[09:48] <Treenaks> hiweed: apt-get source debian-installer ?
[09:48] <mdz> hiweed: all the source code is in the package archive; we don't have a revision control repository for it
[09:48] <mdz> (yet)
[09:48] <hiweed> Treenaks: thanks. is there any svn or cvs?
[09:48] <hiweed> mdz: okay thanks
[09:49] <mdz> hiweed: you can send patches to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[09:49] <hiweed> okay
[09:49] <lamont> scrollkeeper
[09:56] <fabbione> whos is an awk expert?
[09:57] <lamont> elmo maintains gawk...
[09:58] <lamont> or was that mawk.
[09:58] <fabbione> lamont: debian/make-substvars 
[09:58] <mdz> fabbione: don't ask to ask ;-)
[09:58] <fabbione> lamont: we need find a way to replace that thingy
[09:58] <mdz> this is insane, the CD build process spends like 10 minutes making CDs, and 40 minutes making .jigdo files
[09:58] <mdz> which no one uses
[09:58] <fabbione> i am afraid my burner is dead
[09:59] <mdz> fabbione: bad timing :-(
[09:59] <fabbione> mdz: i have another one...
[09:59] <fabbione> it will just take time to change them
[09:59] <lamont> fabbione: shouldn't be too bad.. what needs to change in it?  or does it just annoy you?
[10:00] <fabbione> lamont: let's move to -kernel
[10:00] <lamont> partimage.  woot
[10:02] <low> hi there
[10:02] <low> i've tested 20050309.1 a64 iso
[10:03] <low> lilo and grub can't be installed but i suppose it's a known bug
[10:03] <lamont> install fine here...
[10:03] <mdz> lamont: ETA?
[10:03] <low> having already a grub installed, i've tried to boot the thing anyway
[10:04] <low> crashes at unable to mount VFS, unknown device...(using xfs)
[10:04] <lamont> mdz: cp, compress, and done
[10:04] <low> lamont, hmmm forgor to tell i use sata (sata_sis), is there an initrd or ?
[10:04] <mdz> lamont: how long does that bit take usually?
[10:06] <mdz> pitti: have you tried to reproduce #6749?
[10:06] <mdz> new install ISOs are being md5summed
[10:06] <lamont> mdz: haven't really paid _that_ much attention.
[10:06] <lamont> it's running along at ~2MB/sec
[10:07] <lamont> on 2GB ==> 10 minutes, give or take
[10:07] <lamont> really ballpark figures
[10:07] <mdz> ok, thanks
[10:07] <fabbione> amen
[10:08] <fabbione> it's the DVD burner
[10:08] <fabbione> FUCK
[10:08] <lamont> over 16K blocks done
[10:08] <lamont> (and screaming along at much closer to 6MB/sec)
[10:09] <lamont> 25K of 32K blocks compressed
[10:09] <lamont> at the end there's a small amount more cp madness
[10:09] <mdz> fortunately the live iso build is _way_ faster
[10:09] <mdz> no source madness and no jigdo madness
[10:12] <lamont> i386 wins the compression competition at 24% vs 25 and 25
[10:13] <lamont> ubuntu livecd build is a GO
[10:13] <mdz> building
[10:14] <lamont> for future reference, runs about 1 hour on ppc, under good conditions
[10:15] <lamont> and in about 1 hour.  fwiw, those builds did ubuntu and kubuntu, so you could build kubuntu-live (if you wait another hour for ppc-kubuntu to finish..)
[10:15] <lamont> anything more before I go grab 4 hours sleep and then run the kids to school?
[10:16] <lamont> T-None: see, I do sleep. :-)
[10:16] <mdz> Ubuntu 5.04 "Hoary Hedgehog" - Preview amd64 Binary-1 (20050310)
[10:16] <mdz> oh yay, Kamion did the .disk/info magic already
[10:17] <mdz> lamont: I think we're in reasonable shape, thanks
[10:18] <m_tthew> is there one more build for volume labels still?
[10:18] <mdz> m_tthew: nope
[10:18] <lamont> mdz: g'night then
[10:18] <m_tthew> yay
[10:18] <mdz> sabdfl: morning
[10:18] <pitti> Hi sabdfl 
[10:18] <sabdfl> morning guys
[10:18] <lamont> morning sabdfl 
[10:18] <lamont> night sabdfl 
[10:18] <sabdfl> mdz: how's it looking?
[10:18] <fabbione> morning sabdfl 
[10:18] <mdz> sabdfl: install candidate is up, live candidate is building
[10:19] <fabbione> burning now the install candidate
[10:19] <sabdfl> mdz: canidate announced to -devel?
[10:19] <mdz> sabdfl: not yet, live build will be done in a moment and I'll announce together
[10:19] <sabdfl> cool
[10:19] <sabdfl> then we have a good few hours testing before we announce
[10:22] <mdz> thom: ping
[10:23] <mdz> ok
[10:23] <mdz> live and install are both up
[10:24] <sabdfl> Kamion get a decent night's rest last night?
[10:25] <mdz> sabdfl: haven't seen him for 9 hours, so I hope so
[10:28] <fabbione> wow.. found the DVD burner recepits
[10:28] <fabbione> and it is still underwarranty
[10:29] <pitti> do we restrict the #rsyncs per IP?
[10:29] <m_tthew> pitti : it seems that way to me, too
[10:30] <mdz> pitti: yes
[10:40] <mdz> live-amd64: success
[10:40] <dholbach> hi
[10:42] <m_tthew> i386 install burning
[10:45] <Keybuk> "he advisory notes that this vulnerability "...pretty much destroys what PaX has always stood and been trusted for." So the author is taking his marbles and going home; PaX will be discontinued at the end of this month."
[10:45] <pitti> Keybuk: I think it won't come that far
[10:45] <Keybuk> pitti: funny though :p
[10:46] <pitti> Keybuk: scary, rather
[10:46] <Keybuk> why scary? all software has security flaws
[10:46] <d3vic3> can someone explain #7403 to me 
[10:46] <Keybuk> I find it more scary that people really believe that there aren't any in things like PaX, etc.
[10:46] <mdz> d3vic3: we're working on the preview release right now; can you help by testing the candidate?
[10:47] <Kamion> mdz: ok, what's the CD situation?
[10:48] <d3vic3> mdz, yes, when will it be ready? 
[10:50] <Kamion> hm, so we seem to have d-i builds throughout, good
[10:51] <mdz> install-amd64 on stage 2
[10:51] <mdz> Kamion: /topic
[10:51] <fabbione> mdz: i should be able to test install in approx 15 minutes
[10:51] <fabbione> i just finished to solve all the burning issues
[10:51] <mdz> Kamion: we have a full set of isos which should represent a reasonabe preview candidate
[10:51] <Kamion> mdz: what I mean is, you just did 'cron.daily' right?
[10:51] <mdz> Kamion: and daily-live, yes
[10:52] <Kamion> mdz: for future reference, to avoid source builds and jigdo, put SPECIAL=1 in the environment
[10:52] <mdz> Kamion: and I griped a lot about how long it takes now
[10:52] <Kamion> with elmo pronunciation
[10:52] <mdz> Kamion: I fiigured out SPECIAL=1 earlier
[10:52] <mdz> Kamion: but since this was to be a real candidate, I figured we should have the jigdos
[10:52] <Kamion> yes, thom uses them at least
[10:52] <mdz> I didn't realize it turned off source, too, or I might have done it anyway
[10:52] <Kamion> and I've had a number of other users asking about them, so they are used :)
[10:53] <fabbione> gnome is a FTBFS due to wrong Build-Dep.. *sighs*
[10:53] <abelli> which burning, if one, is going to be "supported"?
[10:53] <abelli> *app*
[10:54] <fabbione> seb128 
[10:54] <mdz> powerpc-live: success
[10:54] <fabbione> i was thinking about you
[10:54] <mdz> Kamion: I was just griping because they take so long
[10:54] <fabbione> seb128: gnome is a FTBFS due to wrong Build-Dep.. *sighs*
[10:54] <seb128> what gnome ?
[10:54] <mdz> Kamion: down the road, I'd prefer to separate the ISO builds and jigdo into two phases, so we can add the jigdos later when we're happy with a build (or if we can do that already, learn me how ;-) )
[10:54] <fabbione> seb128: libbonoboui_2.8.1-1ubuntu1: libgnome2-dev: Depends: libgnome2-0 (= 2.9.1-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
[10:55] <fabbione> seb128: but 2.10 is in the archive
[10:55] <fabbione> seb128: and after that a chain of other packages
[10:55] <fabbione> seb128: for similar reasons
[10:55] <seb128> $ apt-cache show libgnome2-dev
[10:55] <seb128> Depends: libgnome2-0 (= 2.10.0-0ubuntu1), liborbit2-dev, libbonobo2-dev (>= 2.6.0), libgconf2-dev (>= 2.7.92), libgnomevfs2-dev (>= 2.7.91-3), libglib2.0-dev (>= 2.4.0), libesd0-dev
[10:55] <seb128> 
[10:55] <seb128> that's a out of sync any/all
[10:55] <fabbione> seb128: i noticed it because sparc was catching up
[10:55] <seb128> what arch is that ?
[10:55] <fabbione> seb128: nope.. i have it in sync..
[10:56] <fabbione> seb128: read above...
[10:56] <fabbione> (= 2.9.1-0ubuntu1)
[10:56] <seb128> libgnome2-dev: Depends: libgnome2-0 (= 2.9.1-0ubuntu1) 
[10:56] <seb128> is not possible
[10:56] <seb128> Package: libgnome2-dev
[10:56] <seb128> Architecture: any
[10:56] <seb128> Section: libdevel
[10:56] <seb128> Depends: libgnome2-0 (= ${Source-Version}),
[10:56] <seb128> 
[10:56] <fabbione> in the archive they are in sync
[10:56] <Kamion> mdz: the reason why we don't do that at the moment is because a successful jigdo run requires (or at least, may require) the exact same archive as was used for the ISO run
[10:56] <seb128> what's wrong with that ?
[10:56] <Kamion> mdz: building them at the same time has a much higher chance of actually working
[10:56] <fabbione> seb128: weird
[10:57] <seb128> it's like that for ages
[10:57] <seb128> and works on debian and ubuntu for ages
[10:57] <Kamion> mdz: believe me, it irritates me too, but the answer is not breaking it, the answer is shifting to JTE
[10:57] <seb128> are you sure you are not lagging on libgnome on sparc ?
[10:58] <mdz> install-powerpc: on stage 1
[10:58] <fabbione> seb128: yup...
[10:58] <Kamion> mdz: which pushes most of the jigdo-generation logic into mkisofs, where it can be much more efficient; you save enormous amounts of md5summing that way
[10:58] <Kamion> Debian are using that now, because with 11 arches and a billion CDs they hit the problem much harder
[10:58] <Kamion> for us it's just an annoyance, for Debian it was a showstopper
[10:58] <fabbione> seb128: http://sparc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-sparc/pool/main/libg/libgnome/
[10:59] <seb128> fabbione: apt-cache show libgnome2-dev | grep Depends ?
[11:00] <seb128> and apt-cache show libgnome2-dev | grep Version
[11:00] <fabbione> sec
[11:01] <mdz> install-amd64: success
[11:02] <mdz> who else is testing?
[11:02] <fabbione> seb128: it looks ok to me...
[11:02] <fabbione> bah
[11:02] <fabbione> i will figure that crap out later
[11:02] <low> mdz, i've tried 20050309.1 and had some problems
[11:02] <mdz> low: please try the current one
[11:02] <seb128> fabbione: k
[11:02] <pitti> mdz: still downloading, when we can download only one image at one time, this lasts a while
[11:03] <low> mdz, ok
[11:03] <mdz> pitti: why would it be faster if you could do more than one?
[11:03] <low> mdz, 10.2 ?
[11:03] <mdz> I have always done them in series
[11:03] <mdz> low: /current/
[11:04] <mdz> thom: torrents would be good
[11:05] <mdz> Kamion: can we get a TORRENTS flag to generate them as part of the build process?
[11:05] <pitti> mdz: rsync port is slow for me (about 40 kB/s)
[11:05] <mdz> (the metafiles, that is)
[11:05] <mdz> thom is going to work on automating the seeding
[11:05] <pitti> mdz: but my overall bandwith is about 200 kb/s
[11:06] <mdz> live-i386: success
[11:06] <mdz> Kamion: (live-i386 tested via USB)
[11:08] <seb128> pitti: lucky you, I've 60k here :p
[11:09] <fabbione> install-i386 with piix seems ok (it passed the critical point)
[11:09] <Kamion> mdz: torrents> maybe, need to rethink half of that anyway
[11:09] <mdz> Kamion: RESUME is set correctly for me so far
[11:09] <Kamion> I certainly want to have a separate script that builds them
[11:09] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, every RESUME test has been good for me so far, looks like that worked well
[11:09] <mdz> the amd64 doesn't like to resume from swsusp, though
[11:10] <Kamion> mine neither
[11:10] <mdz> but I forgive it since it's a desktop
[11:10] <thom> mdz: do we have final images in place?
[11:10] <Kamion> thom: probably
[11:10] <Kamion> here, how about I dump these images into releases.u.c/.pool/
[11:11] <thom> yeah, that'd be good
[11:11] <Kamion> will take a while, it md5sums THE WORLD
[11:11] <Kamion> and the scripts are kind of, er, half there for doing that kind of thing
[11:12] <thom> heh
[11:13] <Kamion> $ publish-release daily 20050310.2 install poolonly preview
[11:13] <Kamion> [remove lots of shit] 
[11:13] <Kamion> or words to that effect
[11:13] <Kamion> and it's all going to have to change around post-preview anyway from what sabdfl said yesterday
[11:13] <Kamion> but at least I have an idea how
[11:14] <Kamion> thom: oh, I have half the code for a torrent rsync target too, I'm just too wussy to try to apply it pre-preview
[11:15] <koke> oh, hell I was going to test the preview but I don't have CD-R's here :(
[11:15] <thom> Kamion: heh, heh
[11:15] <YokoZar> Ok, somehow I managed to upgrade to Hoary, select xorg as my default xserver, and NOT have xserver-xorg installed.
[11:15] <YokoZar> There has to be a missing dependency somewhere
[11:17] <pitti> elmo: can we please temporarily increase the rsync-per-IP limit ?
[11:18] <Kamion> YokoZar: install ubuntu-desktop?
[11:18] <Kamion> oh, heh, I don't notice any of this rsync limit stuff because I gave up ages ago and made my scripts do rsync-over-ssh - whoops
[11:19] <pitti> Kamion: you mean ssh to cdimage.ubuntu.com?
[11:20] <Kamion> to little, which is to cdimage.ubuntu.com as jackass is to archive.ubuntu.com
[11:20] <Kamion> i.e. no, but close enough :)
[11:20] <mdz> I've had to do that before
[11:20] <mdz> though the rsync limits seem to be fairly reasonable now
[11:21] <mdz> or they're being used less
[11:21] <YokoZar> Hmm, how did that not get selected...
[11:21] <YokoZar> It let me set the xserver as xserver-xorg-dbg
[11:21] <YokoZar> Which should probably depend on xserver-xorg
[11:21] <Kamion> heh, probably yeah
[11:22] <mdz> daniels: any particular value in having xserver-xorg-dbg Provide: xserver-xorg, rather than just xserver?
[11:23] <Kamion> gah, new kernels make CD images take forever to rsync
[11:24] <mdz> install-powerpc: in scrollkeeper hell
[11:24] <YokoZar> Hmm ubuntu-desktop won't install, giving me an error that mozilla-firefox-gnome-support depends on mozilla-firefox-1.0+dfsg.1-6ubuntu1 but 1.0-2ubuntu4-wart99 is to be installed
[11:24] <mdz> Kamion: new kernels take forever to build, and forever to get onto the CDs, too
[11:24] <mdz> YokoZar: backports are buggy
[11:25] <mdz> their use is not recommended
[11:25] <YokoZar> Yeah that is probably it
[11:25] <Kamion> they're entirely unQAed by us
[11:25] <YokoZar> But I removed the backport repository
[11:25] <mdz> but you still have packages from it installed
[11:25] <YokoZar> Hmm... I thought they would be named smarter
[11:25] <YokoZar> Such that they would upgrade to hoary cleaner
[11:26] <mdz> one would hope
[11:26] <mdz> but it is not so
[11:26] <YokoZar> The backport guy should make a metapackage that conflicts all the hoary backports so it upgrades cleaner
[11:26] <YokoZar> Still, I did uncover a strange thing about xserver-xorg-dbg ;)
[11:26] <Kamion> I don't think you can really hope for that given that the backports are broken to start with
[11:27] <Kamion> they are generally not even versioned correctly
[11:27] <mdz> Kamion: can you copy the .torrents into the daily dirs as well?
[11:27] <mdz> Kamion: I posted those to ubuntu-devel asking for testing, before you published them as preview
[11:27] <Kamion> mdz: yes, when publish-release is finished
[11:27] <mdz> oh, it isn't finished?
[11:27] <Kamion> I haven't actually published them really yet
[11:27] <Kamion> just pushed them into .pool for mirroring
[11:29] <mdz> thom: I hope it's worth the 2 hours of my time it wasted overnight :-P
[11:29] <mdz> not that i'm bitter
[11:31] <thom> mdz: absolutely; two isos in 5 minutes
[11:32] <Kamion> thom: ok, stuff syncing to releases.u.c/.pool/ now
[11:32] <Kamion> mdz: did you generate .torrents, or do you mean that you want me to make some?
[11:32] <Kamion> if so, where did you put them? :P
[11:32] <mdz> Kamion: the latter
[11:32] <Kamion> ok
[11:33] <mdz> Kamion: I thought that I saw that you had created .torrents in releases/hoary/preview
[11:33] <mdz> but I was cockeyed and what I saw were the warty/preview ones
[11:33] <mdz> my eyes have lost their knack for focus this evening
[11:34] <Kamion> releases/hoary/preview existed briefly, because the scripts are THAT GOOD
[11:34] <Kamion> the procedure for doing .pool-only publishing is currently (a) run publish-release with poolonly as the fourth arg, (b) rm -rf releases/hoary/preview, (c) sync-mirrors
[11:34] <mdz> I just did a find for *.torrent, saw the word 'preview', and assumed from there
[11:35] <mdz> thom: I get a full set of 6 live+install isos in ~6 minutes with rsync
[11:36] <Kamion> the problem with rsync for me is that I have to allocate space to keep the CDs, and if I let them get out of date it takes ages to rsync back to current
[11:36] <Kamion> jigdo has considerable appeal because the local mirror is much easier to keep up to date
[11:36] <Kamion> I don't keep the ISOs on the mirror box because it doesn't have a CD writer
[11:36] <mdz> I allocate space for 6 CDs + space for rsync to work
[11:36] <mdz> I do not allocate space for an entire mirror
[11:36] <Kamion> yeah, that's kind of irritating to have to do on my laptop
[11:37] <Kamion> the server has more or less infinite space, but no writer; the laptop has a writer, but limited space
[11:37] <mdz> oh, forgot about that
[11:37] <mdz> install-powerpc: success
[11:37] <mdz> that's 5/5 for me
[11:37] <Kamion> still rsyncing :(
[11:38] <pitti>    206346088  38%   34.43kB/s    2:41:35
[11:38] <Kamion> on 2/6
[11:39] <pitti> thom: I should really have considered jigdo, will switch to it after preview
[11:40] <mdz> I must have finished rsyncing before you guys bogged down the servers :-P
[11:40] <carlos> elmo: how big is an ubuntu mirror with hoary + warty?
[11:40] <Kamion> the problem with jigdo is that we still don't have the snapshot archives that would make the jigdo files actually survive in useful form for more than a couple of days
[11:40] <mdz> pitti: at that rate it would be faster for you to use wget -c
[11:40] <Kamion> (apart from stable releases)
[11:40] <pitti> mdz: now it's    413320896  76%    2.94MB/s    0:00:42
[11:41] <pitti> mdz: probably the kernel part is done now :-)
[11:41] <pitti>    534603704  98%   42.07kB/s    0:02:11
[11:41] <pitti> yay
[11:41] <mdz> thom: torrent ETA?
[11:41] <Kamion> torrents still generating
[11:41] <Nafallo> rsync started 9:01 ;-)
[11:41] <mdz> Kamion: eek
[11:42] <Keybuk> oops, not that button
[11:42] <Kamion> syncing
[11:42] <Kamion> thom: ok, you should be able to embark on torrent love nowish
[11:44] <pitti> mdz: I just wonder why i386/live is only 540 MB (although it is supposed to contain WinFOSS), but ppc/live is 615 MB, although it certainly does not contain Win stuff?
[11:44] <mdz> pitti: 3 kernels
[11:44] <pitti> oh, right
[11:45] <mdz> pitti: i386 does not have winfoss on it yet
[11:45] <pitti> so power3 and power4 machines don't boot with the powerpc kernel?
[11:45] <pitti> I always thought that was like 386 vs. 686
[11:45] <Kamion> I didn't manage to get winfoss down pre-preview
[11:45] <Kamion> pitti: no, they're incompatible
[11:45] <pitti> Kamion: not that I would miss it :-)
[11:45] <Kamion> pitti: at the MMU-handling level in the kernel
[11:45] <pitti> ah
[11:46] <Kamion> requires scary kernel hacking to unify them
[11:46] <Kamion> and upstream basically don't care
[11:47] <fablivemulti> live-i386 is GO on piix
[11:47] <fablivemulti> there is only one little issue with the UK keyboard with X
[11:47] <memyself> which is?
[11:47] <fablivemulti> but nothing too bad
[11:48] <fablivemulti> it's mismapping one char
[11:48] <fablivemulti> hashmark
[11:48] <fablivemulti> 
[11:48] <memyself> k
[11:49] <thom> ppc is going
[11:50] <jordi> thom thom thom
[11:50] <mdz> thom: I have seeds standing by, pending tracker authorization
[11:50] <fabbione> live-cd doesn't recover from hibernate
[11:51] <mdz> fabbione: haha no it certainly doesn't
[11:51] <mdz> one amd64 success report from ubuntu-devel
[11:52] <Keybuk> we need an employee in Houston
[11:52] <thom> rsync still running
[11:52] <Mithrandir> GFDL is not ok for main, right?
[11:53] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it's fine for Ubuntu main
[11:53] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok
[11:54] <mdz> fabbione: was that a multiseat boot?
[11:56] <mdz> has anyone done an i386 install yet?
[11:56] <GheRivero> hi
[11:57] <mdz> d3vic3: the current build (linked from the topic) is the one to test
[11:58] <d3vic3> ok 
[11:58] <fabbione> mdz: yes, but in normal mode
[11:58] <Kamion> burning install-i386 nw
[11:58] <Kamion> now
[11:58] <fabbione> mdz: i just used the multiseat hw
[11:58] <fabbione> mdz: i am reburning i386 install again. the previous ones were just doomed
[11:59] <pitti> mdz: btw, did anybody tried upgrading from warty?
[11:59] <thom> waaargh, source isos
[12:00] <Kamion> I don't think source ISOs are very useful but it's not clear to me that we can get away without them
[12:00] <mdz> pitti: I'll do one now, also a server install
[12:00] <thom> (as in, rsync is syncing them)
[12:00] <pitti> mdz: I can try one on ppc, but it will last about 1.5 hours
[12:01] <pitti> mdz: (install warty, upgrade from CD)
[12:01] <pitti> mdz: do we have enough time for this?
[12:01] <Kamion> if somebody competent to do so can tell me that pointing people at the archive for source is fine and that people might never be entitled to ask for source ISOs, then I can drop them, but somebody did ask for source ISOs (for Array <something>) and asserted that the GPL entitled him to that
[12:02] <Kamion> i.e. a frozen image of the source used to build those CDs, not the archive which is changing
[12:02] <mdz> pitti: that's what I'm doing now, but on amd64
[12:02] <mdz> so it should only take 40-60 minutes
[12:02] <mdz> our release target is 1800 UTC, so we have time
[12:02] <Kamion> pitti: we have plenty of time
[12:02] <pitti> mdz: okay, ppc install is still running, I immediately try an upgrade afterwards
[12:02] <Kamion> having delayed a day, this is our least rushed release yet ;-)
[12:03] <mdz> Kamion: next time we tell everyone that the release is the day before
[12:03] <Kamion> mdz: exactly what I was going to say
[12:03] <Kamion> mdz: but we have to not have artwork pending until THREE MILLISECONDS before the release
[12:04] <mdz> Kamion: exactly hwat I was going to say
[12:04] <thom> mdz: torrents torrenting
[12:04] <mdz> thom: thanks
[12:05] <jdub> Kamion: i was going to suggest the same strategy as gnome -> due monday, released wednesday
[12:06] <Kamion> that certainly stands a better chance of working
[12:06] <Kamion> it would be overkill for arrays, but for preview/final, absolutely
[12:06] <jdub> yeah
[12:08] <fabbione> mdz: installing base now (i386)
[12:08] <Kamion> testing rescue mode, i386
[12:09] <mdz> thom: my hoary-install-i386 torrent is flowing, but hoary-live-i386 is still saying rejected
[12:09] <fabbione> livecd i386 doesn't catch a cisco aironet pcmcia card
[12:09] <thom> mdz: oh, sorry. live cds still syncing
[12:09] <thom> damn different directories :/
[12:10] <Kamion> rescue mode seems fine, modulo crap UI (but what's news)
[12:10] <fabbione> ah it got it.. but it took a long time
[12:11] <mdz> has anyone done a server install yet?
[12:12] <pitti> i386/live: success on old fujitsu laptop
[12:13] <thom> mdz: i'll try ppc server as soon as desktop finishes
[12:13] <falivefromlappy> there
[12:13] <falivefromlappy> cool
[12:14] <Kamion> I did a server install last night FWIW
[12:15] <thom> mdz: live torrents going from here, work for you?
[12:16] <mdz> thom: I'll know in about 2.5 minutes when it retries
[12:16] <mdz> btdownloadcurses seems to check every 5 minutes
[12:16] <fabbione> i386 install in phase2 now
[12:16] <Mithrandir> thom: all the live torrents are dead forme
[12:16] <Mithrandir> s/forme/for me/
[12:17] <Mithrandir> nah
[12:17] <Mithrandir> there they sprang to life
[12:17] <jdub> mdz: i did server installs of last night's images (i386, ppc)
[12:17] <mdz> jdub: thanks
[12:17] <fabbione> Mithrandir: DIE!
[12:17] <ogra> morning
[12:17] <Mithrandir> fabbione: passing 3.0MB/sec now
[12:17] <Mithrandir> seems like kicking worked
[12:17] <fabbione> Mithrandir: DIE! DIE!
[12:18] <Mithrandir> uploading at 1.6MB/sec too
[12:18] <pitti> mdz: ppc/install: success on iBook G4 w/o network
[12:18] <thom> aww, i'm only d/ing at 2.0MB/sec
[12:18] <jdub> mdz: perhaps we should put together a little web form for install reports
[12:18] <mdz> jdub: a test plan would be good
[12:18] <jdub> mdz: if the person ticks 'failure', it throws the report into bugzilla
[12:19] <thom> 1.2MB/sec up, too
[12:19] <jdub> otherwise, it notes success
[12:19] <mdz> a wiki test plan seems more achievable in the near term :-)
[12:19] <jdub> yeah
[12:19] <Mithrandir> thom: I just passed 5.0MB/sec down.
[12:19] <Mithrandir> now we're almost talking
[12:19] <jdub> encouraging success feedback would be good; even I didn't bother mentioning the successful installs i did last night
[12:21] <WeFuckingROCK> 3/3 successes with LiveCD
[12:21] <Mithrandir> hi fabio :)
[12:22] <WeFuckingROCK> yeah i know it's me!
[12:22] <WeFuckingROCK> :)
[12:23] <pitti> d3vic3: fabbione tested a live CD image
[12:23] <Mithrandir> d3vic3: it was just fabio testing the live cd.
[12:23] <fabbione> yeah
[12:23] <fabbione> 3 over 3 are GO
[12:23] <pitti> d3vic3: ... cybercity.dk says it all :-)
[12:23] <d3vic3> sweet 
[12:23] <fabbione> install on i386 almost done
[12:24] <fabbione> generating locales....
[12:25] <Kamion> pitti: the phrasing says it all :)
[12:25] <fabbione> Kamion: ahhaa
[12:26] <pitti> Kamion: that as well :-)
[12:26] <pitti> mdz: success: i386/live w/ network, ati 9600, desktop
[12:26] <thom> ppc in scrollkeeper hell for desktop
[12:27] <jdub> thom: spewage?
[12:27] <pitti> thom: these nice error messages? do they occurr only on ppc?
[12:27] <thom> none thus far
[12:27] <thom> just three weeks wait
[12:27] <mdz> scrollkeeper seems especially slow on ppc
[12:28] <Mithrandir> does anybody know _why_ scrollkeeper is so slow?
[12:28] <fabbione> install i386 is GO
[12:28] <fabbione> on the piix crap too
[12:29] <Mithrandir> bah, my box is useless ATM. :P
[12:30] <Kamion> smurfix: could the keymap selector please tell you at the end which keymap it's selected?
[12:30] <jdub> Mithrandir: originally written by people who normally write docbook ;)
[12:31] <mdz> upgrading a warty desktop to current hoary removes ubuntu-desktop
[12:31] <mdz> with apt-get dist-upgrade anyway
[12:31] <thom> desktop ppc finished fine
[12:31] <smurfix> Kamion: I can do that. Add an input field to let people try whether it's correct?
[12:32] <Mithrandir> jdub: I guess that explains something..
[12:32] <thom> Kamion: the yaboot preamble doesn't mention the server option
[12:32] <fabbione> mdz, Kamion: i have no issues so far.. you get the green light from piix department
[12:32] <Kamion> smurfix: maybe something like that, yeah, with an opportunity to try again
[12:32] <mdz> fabbione: thanks
[12:32] <fabbione> mdz: no problem
[12:32] <mdz> mvo: here?
[12:33] <mvo> mdz: yes
[12:33] <mdz> mvo: can you look into the warty->hoary upgrade issue?
[12:33] <smurfix> Kamion: Makes sense. I'll put that in.
[12:33] <mvo> mdz: ok
[12:33] <Kamion> mdz: the live CD takes CENTURIES to generate locales if you select a language not already on the CD
[12:34] <pitti> success: i386/live on Samsung M40 laptop with widescreen display
[12:34] <mdz> mvo: aptitude dist-upgrade gets it right, but not apt-get dist-upgrade
[12:34] <pitti> last time, the resolution was completely wrong and it was impossible to setup 1440x90
[12:34] <pitti> 900
[12:34] <mdz> Kamion: to generate?  or to download?
[12:34] <mdz> Kamion: oh, the live CD
[12:34] <Kamion> mdz: adding a --keep-existing option to locale-gen would probably fix it
[12:34] <mdz> yes, it takes a very long time
[12:34] <Kamion> mdz: it's regenerating all the locales that are already there
[12:34] <Kamion> and the progress bar just says "Configuring language", no extra information
[12:35] <mvo> mdz: boot a warty system now
[12:35] <mdz> Kamion: that'd have to be changed in glibc, I suppose
[12:35] <Kamion> yep, I can do that pre-final
[12:35] <Kamion> Kinnison thought the live CD had hung
[12:35] <mdz> Kamion: we need to figure out what to do about language-support-* which are not on the install CD, too
 oh, and mouse pointers are still shit
[12:35] <mdz> Kamion: hung, but was churning wildly away at the disk?
[12:36] <mdz> Kamion: it's possible that we'll be able to fit all language-pack-* on the live CD, so this may not be an issue for final
[12:36] <mdz> pitti will let us know
[12:36] <mvo> it installed some english dictionaries and openoffice stuff yesterday even when installing for german language
[12:36] <mdz> mvo: that's a feature
[12:36] <pitti> mvo: language-support-en is in desktop, for whatever reason
[12:37] <mvo> aha
[12:37] <Kamion> hmm, fontconfig is picking a serif font
[12:37] <Kamion> mdz: no, it was churning RAM
[12:37] <mdz> pitti: it's not in desktop
[12:37] <mdz> but the installer installs it by default
[12:37] <Kamion> locale-gen is not quick when it has to regenerate everything
[12:37] <pitti> mdz: ah, ok
[12:37] <mdz> oh, it was regenerating all the english locales, I see
[12:38] <Kamion> mdz: the live rootfs generation will take eons without --keep-existing or whatever anyway, because it is currently O(n^2)
[12:38] <svenl> Kamion: you have mails with patches.
[12:38] <mdz> Kamion: true
[12:38] <mdz> it's not that bad on reasonable hardware, though
[12:39] <mdz> even the 50 english locales take only a minute or so
[12:39] <Kamion> svenl: ok, thanks
[12:40] <svenl> Kai doubt you have time to test and i may still come up with a OF kludge to fix this clear yaboot misbehavior, but i still would like to get pmac results from it.
[12:40] <Nafallo> Can someone confirm that About Ubuntu doesn't do what it should?
[12:40] <Nafallo> for me it pops up an .xml in gedit.
[12:40] <pitti> success: ppc live @ibook G4, networkless (only keyboard is broken, known bug)
[12:41] <pitti> Nafallo: with ppc/live, I get a yelp with the welcome page
[12:41] <thom> Nafallo: i get yelp on amd64/install
[12:42] <Kamion> Kinnison *really* doesn't like the clearlooks progress bar shimmying effect
[12:42] <Nafallo> I should add I get an empty yelp in the background. probably a local failure then...
[12:43] <Kamion> especially in combination with a left->right->left throbber
[12:44] <Nafallo> yikes! school *runs*
[12:46] <jdub> Kamion: left-right-left throbber?
[12:47] <jdub> Kamion: you mean a cylon? what's doing that?
[12:47] <thom> synaptic does it when you do an update
[12:48] <thom> or, i remember some part of g-a-i/update-manager/synaptic doing it
[12:48] <sabdfl> Kamion: agreed on the direction of the throbber
[12:48] <Kamion> jdub: yes, update-manager
[12:48] <Kamion> sabdfl: um, it's not the direction?
[12:48] <sabdfl> it should be >>>>> and move to the right
[12:48] <Kamion> sabdfl: it doesn't know the length yet, so it does that briefly
[12:49] <thom> synaptic does it when it's unpacking
[12:49] <sabdfl> ?
[12:49] <thom> server just installed fine on ppc
[12:49] <mvo> synaptic does it when it waits for dpkg (when dpkg reads it's database and gives no feedback)
[12:49] <Kamion> but when it does that in combination with the shimmering effect, it's epileptic-fit-inducing
[12:49] <Kamion> because you have a thing going left->right->left *and* a diagonal shimmer on the bar
[12:49] <sabdfl> the shimmering -- the diagonal lines are crackful
[12:49] <mvo> Kamion: it's a bit fast in the version in hoary, my version is slower now
[12:49] <sabdfl> they should be chevron-style
[12:50] <sabdfl>  > > > >
[12:50] <sabdfl> and only move to the right
[12:50] <Kamion> *boggle*
[12:50] <Kamion> no, they should just disappear IMHO
[12:50] <sabdfl> Kamion: sure, text-mode-boy
[12:50] <jdub> Kamion: ah, right; i think the animation is appropriate there; hmm.
[12:50] <ogra> mvo: are you guys talking about pulse() ?
[12:50] <Kamion> sabdfl: dude, there's way too much stuff moving around at the moment
[12:50] <Kamion> it's foul
[12:50] <Keybuk> Dear Nautilus; please stop placing volume icons on top of existing ones, kthxbye
[12:50] <Kamion> it's like blingtastic
[12:50] <jdub> Kamion: it could be made less distracting
[12:50] <sabdfl> it could do with some simplification
[12:50] <mvo> ogra: yes
[12:51] <sabdfl> but it has potential
[12:51] <jdub> Kamion: look at OS X's, it provides great affordance of processing, but isn't too distracting
[12:51] <jdub> (it's not chevron style, either)
[12:51] <Kamion> jdub: hmm, will have to look again
[12:51] <sabdfl> jdub: colour selection needs help, for window titles and menus
[12:51] <ogra> mvo: hmm, so someone shuld com up with an idea what to do if you got no response form the pipe :)
[12:51] <jdub> the important bit is the hint of processing
[12:51] <sabdfl> needs some of the warmth we got from warty -> hoary desktop transition
[12:51] <jdub> sabdfl: yes, that's totally not final
[12:51] <Kamion> Kinnison didn't like the hover effect on menus
[12:52] <ogra> mvo: i'm using it too in hwdb-client ;)
[12:52] <jdub> Kamion: that's definitely being deblinged
[12:52] <jdub> Kamion: too chunky atm
[12:52] <Kamion> you get a brown rectangle which is very distinct from the grey background, but there's a little border around the edge of it
[12:52] <sabdfl> Kamion: i think the colours there are leftover from warty palette
[12:52] <Kamion> sabdfl: ah, right
[12:52] <Kamion> cool
[12:52] <sabdfl> the raised-effect will stay, but the colours will get warmer
[12:52] <sabdfl> a bit more subtle
[12:52] <Kamion> that would certainly be nice
[12:52] <sabdfl> checkout clearlooks-olive
[12:53] <Kamion> hmm, lilo install failed on an LVM-root install
[12:53] <jdub> sabdfl: the 3dness of the menu selections will be less prominent though
[12:53] <Kamion> will have to try again post-preview and debug
[12:53] <Kamion> LVM-root's not quite so high prio though
[12:53] <Kamion> mvo: fast> yeah, reducing the speed would help with the motion-sickness effect, definitely
[12:54] <Kamion> (hmm, that sounded sarcastic, sorry, it wasn't meant to be)
[12:54] <jdub> the OS X one is slower
[12:54] <mvo> Kamion: no worries, I think I understood it right :) it's slower in my local tree 
[12:54] <Kamion> cool
[12:54] <Kamion> so the application controls the speed?
[12:55] <jdub> no, engine defined
[12:55] <jdub> could be turned into a theme option, but that's silly :)
[12:55] <ogra> Kamion: you can either set an idle loop or set a timeout....
[12:55] <jdub> oh, synaptic cylon, not theme?
[12:55] <ogra> Kamion: where the idling depends on the system speed and scles with it
[12:55] <Kamion> jdub: right
[12:55] <jdub> ok
[12:56] <mvo> jdub: synaptic calls gtk_progress_bar_pulse
[12:56] <Kamion> clearlooks-olive> is that in universe? can't check right now
[12:56] <ogra> Kamion: should be installed
[12:56] <Kamion> 'k
[12:56] <ogra> Kamion: its just another color variant
[12:57] <thom> mvo: holy crap; the "You've inserted an ubuntu cd" thing is totally sweet!
[12:57] <Kamion> it's pretty
[12:57] <jdub> mvo: yeah, was caught up in previous context ;)
[12:58] <ogra> brb
[12:58] <mdz> mvo: we need to be sure to test that thoroughly; it will be great to be able to upgrade from hoary with it, but only if we make sure that it is solid before final :-)
[12:59] <Kinnison> Hi guys
[12:59] <Kamion> 11:52 < sabdfl> the raised-effect will stay, but the colours will get warmer
[12:59] <Kamion> 11:52 < sabdfl> a bit more subtle
[12:59] <Kamion> Kinnison: ^-
[12:59] <Kamion> 11:52 < sabdfl> checkout clearlooks-olive
[01:00] <jdub> raised effect will be more subtle too
[01:00] <jdub> less liney
[01:00] <mvo> mdz: nod
[01:00] <Kinnison> The wibbly lines in the progress bars actually gave me about three seconds worth of motion sickness the first time I saw them
[01:01] <thom> i actually think clearlooks itself is the nicest of the clearlooks based themes, but lighthouse-blue is still my favourite :-)
[01:01] <Kinnison> bad muju
[01:01] <amu> mdz: i386/live on T41 and Samsung X30, works fine
[01:02] <mdz> d3vic3: did you intend to claim bug 7405?
[01:02] <sivang> Hey all
[01:03] <jdub> uh oh
[01:03] <sabdfl> Kinnison: agreed, they need work, but given direction i think they could be very nice
[01:03] <jdub> getting abnormal status eroror messages on my sata disks
[01:03] <Kinnison> sabdfl: A good rule of thumb is "only one moving part at a time"
[01:03] <d3vic3> mdz, yes 
[01:03] <sabdfl> Kinnison: aqua
[01:04] <Kinnison> sabdfl: Really far too busy
[01:04] <Kinnison> Hmm, not enough 'very's there
[01:04] <jdub> Kinnison: equally, the affordance given by knowing there's something happening is helpful
[01:05] <Kinnison> jdub: Then it needs to be way way more subtle
[01:05] <sivang> is there any news for the PIIX detection bug?
[01:05] <sabdfl> yes, it needs to be more subtle
[01:05] <jdub> yes, closer to OS X's
[01:05] <Kinnison> jdub: E.g. a periodic glint or something
[01:05] <mdz> d3vic3: hotplug is a critical package, and I'm not certain that the proposed changes are correct
[01:05] <Kamion> sivang: kernel -25.2
[01:05] <fabbione> sivang: yes. it has been fixed
[01:05] <sabdfl> sivang: we've rolled back to a previous bug instead
[01:05] <Kinnison> jdub: OS X's is too in-your-face IMO
[01:05] <Kamion> sivang: current CDs are preview candidates
[01:05] <sabdfl> guys, let's focus on release now
[01:05] <Kamion> mdz: was I correct in gleaning from the scrollback that jbailey's report that -25.1 was broken on his system was a false alarm?
[01:05] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[01:06] <jbailey> Kamion: Yes.
[01:06] <sivang> Kamion, sabdfl, fabbione : kthxrsyncingnow :)
[01:06] <mdz> Kamion: so in fact it looks like the approach in -25.1 is fairly reasonable
[01:06] <mdz> Kamion: and seems to have fixed nico's problem (see #ubuntu)
[01:06] <d3vic3> mdz, i figured the changes must not go to hotplug 
[01:06] <ogra_live> no widescreen :(
[01:06] <Kamion> ok, good (hm, I'm not on #ubuntu)
[01:06] <jbailey> Kamion: My bad for being in too much of a hurry.  I have the two SATA systems side by each and got scrambled as to which one I was looking at.
[01:07] <d3vic3> mdz, I'm trying to figure out wich package they must go to 
[01:07] <Kamion> jbailey: np, we were all a bit stressed
[01:07] <jdub> jbailey: do you have any sii sata?
[01:07] <pitti> hi sivang
[01:07] <sabdfl> jbailey: happy to send you some more systems to have side by side, kamion's full :-)
[01:07] <sivang> pitti: Hi :)
[01:08] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: ooh, free hardware. ;)  (I guess I shouldn't say that with you present. :)
[01:08] <jbailey> jdub: Lemme just check a couple other machines, just a sec.
[01:08] <Kamion> quid pro quo ...
[01:09] <thom> Kamion: d'you know if anyone is working on evms support for the installer, OOI?
[01:09] <jbailey> sabdfl: *lol*  At this point so am I.  And then a G5 arrived and I haven't quite figured out where I'm going to put it ;)
[01:09] <Kamion> thom: not AFAIK
[01:09] <Mithrandir> thom: I'm going to, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
[01:09] <sabdfl> mdz: #ubuntu-meeting?
[01:09] <Mithrandir> jbailey: get a rack and a KVM?
[01:09] <jbailey> Mithrandir: You know I live in a one-room appartment, right?
[01:10] <Mithrandir> jbailey: nope, I didn't know that.
[01:10] <Mithrandir> jbailey: and you work from home?  Must be crowded.
[01:10] <dredg> jbailey: clearly you need to expand. annex your neighbours :)
[01:10] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Ah, yeah.  Me, my wife and two cats.  Looking forward to moving in July. =)
[01:10] <Kamion> sabdfl: btw, the candidate images have been on releases.ubuntu.com/.pool/ for a while, although I've no idea how many mirrors will have picked them up
[01:11] <Mithrandir> jbailey: same, sans wife, cats, add girlfriend who likes computers almost as much as I do.  Also looking forward to moving in June/July.
[01:11] <sabdfl> Kamion: what time were they uploaded?
[01:11] <sivang> Kamion: the "current" symlink is updated right?
[01:11] <Kamion> sabdfl: 10:32 < Kamion> thom: ok, stuff syncing to releases.u.c/.pool/ now
[01:11] <Kinnison> I'll leave you guys to it
[01:12] <Kamion> sivang: no, .pool is for pre-mirroring
[01:12] <jbailey> Mithrandir: My belle is 'patient' about the computers...  The pegasos and G5 are almost silent, so they can at least stay on all the time.  The alpha and hppa box may as well go in storage, and the ia64 is at a colo ;)
[01:12] <Kamion> sivang: er, daily/current has been yes, sorry, misunderstood you
[01:12] <sivang> Kamion: tnx :)
[01:12] <Mithrandir> jbailey: we're getting a computer room and somewhere to stuff a rack.  I'm adamant about that. :)
[01:12] <lifeless> Kamion: elmo gpg internals question.
[01:13] <Kamion> lifeless: ?
[01:13] <d3vic3> anayone got hardware to send my way :p 
[01:13] <lifeless> gpgme exposes per key keyid as 16digit hex strings
[01:13] <Kamion> lifeless: did you mean me or elmo or both?
[01:13] <lifeless> gpg exposes teh same as 8 digit hex strings  + key type 
[01:13] <opi> is there anyone who is handling php4 modules in Universe?
[01:13] <lifeless> Kamion: whoever can help.
[01:13] <jbailey> d3vic3: Careful wht you ask for.  People have this crazy habit of expecting you to actually troubleshoot things on the hardware. =)
[01:13] <lifeless> picked the math head and the security head. 
[01:13] <lifeless> ;)
[01:14] <Mithrandir> jbailey: and you being a glibc guy...  fun, isn't it? :)
[01:14] <Kamion> lifeless: elmo is asleep, and when he gets up he will probably be busy with the hoary preview; I'm busy with the hoary preview right now
[01:14] <lifeless> ah:[
[01:14] <Kamion> lifeless: now is not really an ideal time :)
[01:14] <d3vic3> jbailey, good thing I can do that, if I got the time 
[01:14] <lifeless> this is making baz do gpg checking right
[01:14] <sivang> jbailey: hey Jeff, hmm, I wouldn't mind troubelshooting for having exotic hardware :)
[01:14] <dredg> opi: try #ubuntu-motu
[01:15] <opi> dredg: 'k
[01:15] <jbailey> Mithrandir: I told people that I would care about any arch that they sent me and then prayed that an s390 wouldn't show up at my doorstep.  It was worse, I got an m68k.
[01:15] <lifeless> so I'll carry on with my obscene hack. AFAICT its not any more gamable than ids are intrinsically, and I support fingerprints
[01:15] <Mithrandir> jbailey: *chuckle*.  They're not as noisy, though.
[01:15] <Mithrandir> lifeless: what is the problem you're trying to solve?
[01:17] <lifeless> Mithrandir: getting the 16 digit keyid out of gpg, so that I can directly compare with gpgme, and so that users can easily configure stuff.
[01:17] <Mithrandir> lifeless: gpg --with-colons --list-keys tfheen@debian.org | grep ^pub
[01:17] <Mithrandir> pub:u:1024:17:412B1E31817A996A:1999-11-28:::u:Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no>::scESC:
[01:18] <lifeless> sweet
[01:18] <Mithrandir> you should be using --with-colons anyhow if you are parsing gpg output
[01:18] <Mithrandir> anything else is madness
[01:18] <lifeless> oh, gpgme does
[01:18] <thom> grmph
[01:19] <thom> ok, server install on amd64 looks good
[01:19] <sivang> hmm rsync speedup's real nice, 40Mins to finish :)
[01:19] <jdub> ah crap, lost the logs of the errors
[01:20] <pitti> mvo: ubuntu-desktop is removed for me (ppc) as well when doing warty->hoary
[01:20] <pitti> mvo: any idea why?
[01:20] <Kamion> sivang: rsync will lie, it'll probably be faster than that
[01:20] <sivang> Kamion: then yay, great :)
[01:20] <mvo> pitti: not yet, my warty install didn't showed it and therefore I'm installing a clean version now
[01:21] <seb128> liveCD works fine on amd64
[01:21] <ogra_live> seb128: no widescreen panel detection here
[01:22] <lifeless> Mithrandir: thanks
[01:22] <pitti> mvo: darn, upgrade is already running
[01:22] <mvo> lifeless: you know about /usr/share/doc/gnupg/DETAILS.gz? 
[01:22] <pitti> mvo: I should probably have done a --dry-run before
[01:22] <pitti> mvo: can you please do this?
[01:23] <lifeless> mmm, didn't, thanks
[01:23] <jdub_> hrm. disk death may be a possibility. :-|
[01:23] <mvo> pitti: do what?
[01:23] <lifeless> mvo: I do have most gpg stuff under control ;)
[01:23] <dholbach> re
[01:23] <pitti> mvo: apt-get -u --dry-run dist-upgrade
[01:23] <pitti> mvo: I upgraded right away
[01:24] <mvo> lifeless: ok (wanted to be helpfull :)
[01:24] <mvo> pitti: I'll look into it
[01:24] <lifeless> mvo: oh you were - thanks again.
[01:24] <lifeless> mvo: I'm just tired -> grumpy
[01:25] <thom> ogra_live, please, for the love of god, don't use php5 based on dotdeb.org? :-)
[01:25] <mpt_london> "E: /var/cache/apt/archives/language-pack-en-base_20050308_all.deb:  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/locale-langpack/en_CA/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-panel-2.0.mo', which is also in package language-pack-en"
[01:26] <ogra_live> thom: i will ask for your expertise on package review if you like ;)
[01:26] <sivang> thom: are you allergic to php5, I've seen you talk about this before :)
[01:26] <thom> ogra_live, well, infinity is already working on php5 for debian unstable, and he's php4 maintainer and working on ubuntu too
[01:26] <Kamion> mpt_london: yeah, known langpack bug
[01:27] <ogra_live> thom: will he make it before release (php5)
[01:27] <Mithrandir> hmm, releases.ubuntu.com seems to be missing a favicon.
[01:27] <thom> ogra_live, he's been threatening them for a while
[01:27] <pitti> great, now when we release the preview, everybody stumbles over the langpacks
[01:27] <pitti> they had this structure for ages...
[01:27] <Kamion> Mithrandir: feel free to give me one
[01:27] <Mithrandir> Kamion: same as the one on www.ubuntu.com?
[01:27] <Kamion> cdimage.ubuntu.com doesn't have one either iirc?
[01:27] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, where does it have to live?
[01:28] <Mithrandir> /favicon.ico, iirc
[01:28] <thom> Kamion, i can do favicons
[01:28] <ogra_live> thom: i want that in universe in any case for release, even if its a packages i have to tag as preview in the version (to prevent the whining)
[01:28] <Kamion> thom: they need to be on little
[01:28] <Kamion> I'll grab the one from www.u.c
[01:30] <Kinnison> I just upgraded my desktop and my look&feel just went way downhill
[01:30] <Kinnison> Any chance of hoary *also* carrying the old theme for those of us who prefer it?
[01:31] <Kamion> Mithrandir: will be there for preview
[01:31] <Mithrandir> Kamion: great
[01:31] <jdub_> Kinnison: possibly; your point was made earlier - what's in preview is not final.
[01:31] <Kamion> good suggestion, not something I tend to think of
[01:31] <Kamion> cdimage.ubuntu.com has it too
[01:32] <Kinnison> jdub_: I appreciate changing the default for new installs; I just think it's a pity that we've effectively stomped on a user preference
[01:32] <jdub_> Kinnison: it was done that way for preview, it won't be like that for final
[01:33] <jdub_> Kinnison: it was change one package vs. three or four.
[01:33] <jdub_> one was tough enough, at the time.
[01:33] <d3vic3> seb128, ping 
[01:33] <Kinnison> jdub_: okay cool
[01:37] <seb128> d3vic3: pong ?
[01:38] <jdub_> all this sata talk killed one of my server's disks :-)
[01:39] <pitti> mvo: any idea? ^
[01:39] <pitti> (only the metapackage)
[01:39] <mvo> pitti: not yet, still installing :)
[01:40] <d3vic3> seb128, "rebuild without libhowl0 dep" = "rebuild for libhowl transition" ? 
[01:40] <seb128> yep
[01:40] <amu> hmm live@ppc powerbook4 has trouble with german keybord, in xorg it is a pc104 and US 
[01:41] <pitti> amu: known bug, for me too
[01:41] <dholbach> seb128: uploading rebuilt gnomeicu
[01:42] <seb128> k
[01:42] <mvo> hi dholbach 
[01:42] <amu> pitti: `k   
[01:42] <dholbach> hi mvo! :-)
[01:43] <pitti> amu: #7138
[01:47] <pitti> argh
[01:47] <pitti> warty->hoary upgrade asks conffile question about /etc/udev/scripts/ide-devfs.sh
[01:48] <Treenaks> pitti: it asks a LOT of conffile questions.. didn't write them down, but I upgraded a clean warty (CD) install to hoary the other day
[01:48] <Treenaks> and I had to answer 4-5 conffile questions
[01:48] <Treenaks> (clean = un-security-patched, pure CD-install)
[01:48] <pitti> same for me
[01:49] <pitti> mdz: is there a meta-bug for upgrading warty->hoary, similar to #1436?
[01:49] <pitti> mdz: I'd like to make it depend on particular bugs like #4973
[01:49] <mdz> pitti: no, but feel free to create one
[01:49] <pitti> ok
[01:50] <pitti> mdz: do you agree that we should fix dpkg question bugs by the final? #4973 is "normal" right now, but I'd like to upgrade their severity
[01:51] <fabbione> mdz: if i understood right, 25.2 was a mistake and enable_libata-2 should be readded, right?
[01:52] <mdz> fabbione: 25.2 was not a mistake, but yes, we should readd that
[01:52] <fabbione> mdz: yeah i mean.. the report of the problem was a mistake
[01:53] <Keybuk> When mentioning dpkg-related bugs, _please_ specify whether it's a Debian# or Ubuntu#
[01:54] <Keybuk> there are dpkg bugs in the Debian BTS < 4973 :p
[02:03] <jdub__> http://www.iceni.org/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi//2005/03/08#05-03-07-1
[02:03] <jdub__> ^ automated testing interest
[02:03] <jdub__> no real detail
[02:04] <jdub__> but interesting insight into what their tools test
[02:06] <low> ok, lilo and grub chokes at install if /boot is xfs
[02:07] <low> mdz, another problem is, i can't open gnome menus on top on the screen
[02:07] <sabdfl> congrats everybody
[02:08] <dholbach> WOOHOO!
[02:08] <sabdfl> thanks espcially to kamion, mdz, elmo, fabbione for getting us through the kernel krunch
[02:08] <sabdfl>  < no reference to kde whatsoever >
[02:08] <Kamion> low: xfs /boot and grub> yeah, long-known bug, never been successfully diagnosed
[02:08] <Kamion> there is a warning in place I believe
[02:09] <Treenaks> hey, no final name for hoary+1 in the announcement :P
[02:09] <Riddell> sabdfl :)
[02:09] <mpt_london> eep
[02:09] <low> Kamion, yep. i even know why it breaks (long time xfs user): 1st partition sector can't be used for lilo or grub when xfs is used
[02:09] <low> you must use MBR
[02:09] <mpt_london> Someone, please, s/The correct CD for/For/g :-)
[02:10] <HiddenWolf> kamion: the warning is there, yeah
[02:10] <low> Kamion, anyway i don't know why grub and lilo grumble when i ask them to use mbr
[02:10] <Kamion> mpt_london: where what?
[02:10] <sabdfl> mpt_london: where does that show up?
[02:10] <magnon> congrats to everyone :)
[02:10] <Kamion> oh
[02:10] <Kamion> ok, will change
[02:10] <mdz> sabdfl: the CD image index
[02:10] <mpt_london> Kamion, sabdfl: http://releases.ubuntu.com/hoary/
[02:10] <Kamion> that was mako text I think
[02:10] <sabdfl> Treenaks: erm. good point
[02:11] <sabdfl> ah, good catch mpt_london
[02:11] <Kamion> mpt_london: done
[02:11] <mpt_london> yay
[02:11] <mpt_london> Either that, or add various "The incorrect CD for" sections around the place
[02:12] <mpt_london> just to keep people on their toes
[02:12] <Kamion> low: we *don't* use the first partition sector; we *do* use the MBR
[02:12] <Kamion> low: it's not that simple
[02:12] <Kamion> heh
[02:12] <fabbione> mdz: do i have green light to upload kernel-wedge? ;)
[02:13] <koke> hmm, gnome-btdownload is nice, testing with hoary-preview :)
[02:13] <low> Kamion, i'm using lilo for ages w/ xfs on mbr, it never annoyed me
[02:13] <lifeless> Kamion: can I ask a favour ?
[02:13] <Kamion> lifeless: sure
[02:13] <Kamion> you can ask ;-)
[02:14] <mdz> fabbione: yes
[02:14] <lifeless> Kamion: when elmo srufaces, or thom, There was a request I asked elmo to do - that he did - that seems not-quite-right.
[02:14] <mdz> pitti: OK to upload langpacks, security updates, hpoj, cupsys, etc.
[02:14] <jdub> seb128: want version diffs now? ;-) ;-)
[02:14] <lifeless> Kamion: the request was gnupg & libgpgme-dev in the bazaar build chroots
[02:14] <lifeless> Kamion: I suspect only the former happened, because I phrased the second as 'and shortly willalso need' ;/
[02:14] <Kamion> lifeless: thom should be around ...
[02:15] <Kamion> but if not I can pass it on
[02:15] <lifeless> Kamion: I'm crashing to sleep though, so can't do the buzzy fly thing - so if you can channel me, for that, with promises of a lovely JustWork gpg interface as soon as I can build the debs ..
[02:15] <Kamion> lifeless: 'k
[02:15] <lifeless> I'd really appreciate that.
[02:15] <lifeless> thanks!
[02:15] <lifeless> gnight
[02:18] <thom> *grumble*
[02:18] <Kamion> thom: request from lifeless:
[02:19] <Kamion> 13:14 < lifeless> Kamion: when elmo srufaces, or thom, There was a request I asked elmo to do - that he did - that seems not-quite-right.
[02:19] <Kamion> 13:14 < lifeless> Kamion: the request was gnupg & libgpgme-dev in the bazaar build chroots
[02:19] <Kamion> 13:14 < lifeless> Kamion: I suspect only the former happened, because I phrased the second as 'and shortly willalso need' ;/
[02:19] <Kamion> 13:15 < lifeless> Kamion: I'm crashing to sleep though, so can't do the buzzy fly thing - so if you can channel me, for that, with promises of a lovely JustWork gpg interface as soon as I can build the debs ..
[02:19] <Kamion> low: doing a test run now
[02:20] <low> Kamion, thx
[02:20] <pitti> mdz: cool, I'll do. preview stuff is settled now?
[02:20] <Kamion> pitti: preview's done and dusted
[02:20] <pitti> mdz: "langpacks" -> shall I do new base langpacks and empty updates, or shall we wait for a bug fix?
[02:21] <pitti> Kamion: all my install and live tests were okay, upgrading is a mess
[02:21] <pitti> Kamion: but it's too late to fix this for preview anyway :-)
[02:21] <seb128> jdub: yep
[02:21] <jdub> seb128: glutton for punishment :)|
[02:21] <seb128> jdub: probably gnomemeeting and gdm
[02:21] <Kamion> jdub: that was sivang I think
[02:21] <mdz> pitti: new base, please
[02:21] <mdz> pitti: this is urgent
[02:21] <pitti> okay
[02:22] <pitti> mdz: we need to trick away elmo again :-)
[02:22] <Mithrandir> mdz: is the preview freeze lifted now? :)
[02:22] <Kamion> "with vorbis playback and Python 2.4 ready out of the box" is not great grammar, but hey
[02:22] <mdz> Mithrandir: yes
[02:22] <mdz> but please don't do anything crazy yet :-)
[02:22] <ogra> hehe
[02:22] <Mithrandir> utf8-migration-tool ok in a couple of hours?
[02:22] <HiddenWolf> kamion: who knows, if patents in the eu get shot down... ;)
[02:23] <mdz> sabdfl: we're the top story on distrowatch
[02:23] <mdz> they are so fast
[02:23] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: what was that in reply to?
[02:23] <fabbione> mdz: do you still have superpower to process NEW?
[02:23] <mdz> fabbione: yes, but only if it's urgent
[02:23] <fabbione> ok nothing urgent
[02:23] <dholbach> whoever put the community in the previewrelease draft: good thinking, thank you!
[02:23] <HiddenWolf> kamion: the vorbis playback: if patents get shot, it's one hurdle out of the way to add mp3/dvd playback
[02:23] <mdz> Mithrandir: utf8-migration-tool is fine now; it isn't installed by default or anything
[02:24] <Mithrandir> mdz: it needs some more polishing for those people who want to upgrade from C locales.  Should be easy enough now that I've decided how to handle it.
[02:24] <mdz> pushing 8mbit on the torrent
[02:24] <jdub> dholbach: dude, that's the best bit :-)
[02:24] <dholbach> jdub: YEAH :-)
[02:25] <Burgundavia> already on distrowatch
[02:25] <Treenaks> OK, who submits to slashdot?
[02:25] <jordi> sabdfl: did you see planet.d.o?
[02:26] <jdub> Mithrandir: ;)
[02:26] <HiddenWolf> hm, distrowatch isn't mentioning ubuntu for me
[02:26] <dholbach> jdub: uploaded rebuilt gnome-phone-manager
[02:26] <jdub> Treenaks: do it anyway, best entry wins ;)
[02:26] <jdub> dholbach: sweet!
[02:26] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: EU patents haven't been legally valid up to now and that hasn't stopped it being a problem
[02:27] <HiddenWolf> kamion: it'll take the threat out of the air for 400 million people. 
[02:27] <mdz> HiddenWolf: reload
[02:27] <Burgundavia> HiddenWolf: top of the page
[02:27] <HiddenWolf> mdz: 2005-03-10  	Distribution Release: Kurumin Linux 4.1
[02:27] <tseng> its definately ubuntu
[02:27] <tseng> you are caching or something.
[02:28] <tseng> shift+reload could be helpful.
[02:28] <jdub> gee DW are fast
[02:28] <Burgundavia> mdz: do we have stats about how many people are hittings the repos, etc?
[02:28] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: however that's anything but the direction in which things are going, unfortunately
[02:28] <Treenaks> jdub: maybe they're reading the channel?
[02:29] <mdz> Burgundavia: I don't
[02:29] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: in any case I was complaining about the grammar, not the content :)
[02:29] <Burgundavia> he is probably subscribed to the announce lists of ever distro
[02:29] <dholbach> can anybody help me with this one: "dh_shlibdeps -pgnome-bluetooth -> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: could not find path for libgnomebt.so.0"   --  although debian/libgnomebt0.shlibs seems ok
[02:29] <HiddenWolf> mdz: i've been reloading a lot, but it still won't refresh
[02:30] <thom> ubuntu is top for me (on distrowatch, but ... ;-) )
[02:30] <mdz> HiddenWolf: I have no more clues for you; it's correct for everyone else
[02:30] <jdub> hrm, one thing missing from the preview announce i didn't think of before: there's no clear, strong indication that this intended for and regarded as safe for testing
[02:30] <mdz> jdub: too late
[02:30] <Burgundavia> I think the word preview might be a clue
[02:31] <jdub> mdz: obviously.
[02:31] <mdz> the fact that we're sending it to ubuntu-announce is a clue for those folks
[02:31] <Burgundavia> hey you planet.ubuntu folks, push the blogs out
[02:32] <jdub> mdz: we make it very explicit in gnome release announcements because people, on the whole, don't infer it.
[02:32] <Kamion> mdz: #7424 is a good idea from Kinnison that might have allowed us to dodge some of the bullets this time round
[02:32] <mdz> mvo: someone posted to -devel saying that update-notifier tried to upgrade from a live CD again; I thought that was fixed
[02:33] <mdz> Kamion: sure, we could do that
[02:33] <mdz> and perhaps some knoppix-style options as well
[02:33] <mvo> mdz: I didn't wanted to upload before preview
[02:34] <mdz> mvo: I thought it was fixed weeks ago, but I guess I'm mistaken
[02:34] <mdz> mvo: anyway, feel free to upload now :-)
[02:34] <Kamion> parsing non-debconfy boot options is annoyingly fiddly, but could be done
[02:34] <HiddenWolf> hm: it seems distrowatch.com is updated / distrowatch.cz is not
[02:34] <mvo> mdz: what is upload policy now? can we upload carefully selected bugfixes?
[02:35] <mdz> mvo: for things which are part of desktop, be careful
[02:35] <mvo> mdz: I thought it was fixed, but one or two days before preview noticted that it wasn't :/
[02:35] <mdz> for other things, general bugfixes are OK
[02:35] <mvo> mdz: I have fixes for update-manager, synaptic, python-apt and update-notifier ready that I would like to upload in the new couple of days
[02:36] <mdz> mvo: synaptic -> including libgnome2-perl?
[02:37] <Burgundavia> HiddenWolf: at least 1, my step mom
[02:37] <Kamion> XFS on lilo works fine for me, so I don't know what low was talking about
[02:38] <HiddenWolf> burgundavia: my mother will start on hoary+1: provided gnome tackles the resources
[02:38] <mvo> mdz: I can add this dependency, yes. and small fixes like a slower progressbar pulse, a potenial file-descriptor leak and stuff like this, pretty low impact
[02:38] <Burgundavia> HiddenWolf: my father is hoary+1
[02:38] <Burgundavia> HiddenWolf: or 2 or 3 or 10
[02:38] <mvo> mdz: update-manager/python-apt is a bit bigger, I added support to read the apt pinfile 
[02:38] <mvo> mdz: but it does not touch exisiting code in python-apt and should generally be safe
[02:39] <HiddenWolf> my father sells windows software, won't ever get him to switch
[02:40] <lamont> morning
[02:40] <pitti> Hi lamont
[02:40] <dholbach> hey lamont 
[02:40] <fabbione> ah lamont
[02:40] <mdz> madduck: yes, it is
[02:40] <madduck> thanks.
[02:40] <mdz> madduck: cf. #kubuntu and #kubuntu-devel
[02:40] <fabbione> lamont: i just commited the "Kill the patch madness"
[02:41] <madduck> mdz: that's pretty amazing. so you guys want to continue a 6 month release cycle with 15'000+ packages?
[02:41] <fabbione> lamont: if you want to give it an overall check.. it works on amd64.. waiting i38 to finish the build
[02:41] <mdz> madduck: yes.  not all 15,000 packages are officially supported, though.
[02:41] <madduck> mako: do i have to sign up for more CDs again, or will i be sent the same shipment as before?
[02:42] <madduck> mdz: mh, maybe this should be made more explicit in such announcements... but that's just a detail.
[02:43] <mdz> madduck: we still consider these packages to be part of Ubuntu, though they receive less QA
[02:43] <tarzeau> madduck: now
[02:43] <jdub> so, the gnome livecd is kinda funny
[02:43] <madduck> tarzeau: what's going on?
[02:43] <jdub> luis removed a huge stack of stuff to have more space (and smaller cd)
[02:43] <mdz> jdub: which daily is it based on?
[02:44] <jdub> including vim, nano, ... ;-)
[02:44] <jdub> mdz: few days back, i'll double check
[02:44] <tarzeau> madduck: i was curious about your question and the answers to it
[02:44] <madduck> mdz: some people did not read that from your email. i just had two in my office who were all in rage telling me that ubuntu now goes full way.
[02:44] <madduck> oh. want scrollback?
[02:44] <mdz> jdub: depending on which kernel he got, it might be a good idea to roll a preview-based one
[02:44] <madduck> tarzeau: http://rafb.net/paste/results/3g5sR434.txt
[02:44] <Goshawk> what will be happen to GNU/linux ubuntu is the software patents in Europe will be accepted?
[02:45] <madduck> we will become an underground organisation
[02:45] <pitti> mdz: warty->hoary upgrade finished; a bit rough and there are no langpacks installed, but it works in principle
[02:45] <Goshawk> madduck, what???
[02:45] <Goshawk> or better how?
[02:45] <pitti> mdz: I collected all issues in #7416
[02:45] <madduck> Goshawk: who knows... 
[02:45] <mvo> we'll move development into a space station
[02:45] <mdz> Goshawk: madduck is joking with you
[02:45] <dholbach> mvo: oh rocking, sabdfl wll love that
[02:46] <dredg> Goshawk: that really remains to be seen. i'll let you know when I take out McCreevy.. he only lives a few miles away
[02:46] <madduck> mdz: unless push comes to shove and we will actually have to do something like that... :/
[02:46] <pitti> mdz: oh, and the locale is still ISO
[02:46] <madduck> Goshawk: but yeah, i am joking... somewhat.
[02:46] <lamont> it's not nice to upgrade all the libs and not restart things, you see..
[02:46] <Goshawk> dredg, but have you thought only one time to what will happen?
[02:47] <jdub> Goshawk: it will just mean more places that won't be able to use stuff, and we'd continue to be careful
[02:47] <mdz> pitti: utf8-migration-tool will handle that (right, Mithrandir?)
[02:47] <pitti> mdz: locales are generated at langpack installation, but the default in /etc/environment must be changed
[02:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: u8mg will change the locale and convert file names.
[02:47] <pitti> Mithrandir: ^is that done?
[02:47] <pitti> ah, cool
[02:48] <Mithrandir> pitti: it doesn't touch /etc/environment, no.
[02:48] <pitti> Mithrandir: uh, how does it change the default locale then?
[02:48] <Mithrandir> changes .dmrc
[02:48] <pitti> Mithrandir: so console will still have ISO?
[02:48] <Mithrandir> yes
[02:49] <Mithrandir> the real fix is for pam_env to have per-user enviroment files
[02:49] <pitti> Mithrandir: uh, that means u8mg is per-user, not system-wide?
[02:49] <Mithrandir> pitti: correct.
[02:49] <Mithrandir> u8mt, actually
[02:50] <pitti> er, yes
[02:50] <tarzeau> mvo: on the sea would be easier, no?
[02:50] <mdz> gah, everyone is replying to me with pre-preview tests now
[02:51] <mdz> and off-list
[02:51] <mvo> tarzeau: sure, but less fun :p
[02:51] <ogra> tarzeau: but less cool
[02:51] <mdz> Kamion: you're going to be awake for a while, right?
[02:51] <mdz> I think I'm going to sleep some
[02:52] <dholbach> mdz: good night
[02:52] <mvo> night mdz 
[02:52] <ogra> night mdz
[02:52] <jdub> gute nacht
[02:52] <mdz> call my mobile if the world is ending
[02:52] <mdz> night folks
[02:52] <pitti> night mdz 
[02:52] <tarzeau> ogra, mvo i wouldn't want to live in a fartstinking, hard to get fresh air space station
[02:53] <tarzeau> but certainly you can put me on a ship or island with internet 
[02:53] <seb128> 'night mdz 
[02:54] <thom> night mdz
[02:56] <ogra> tarzeau: but "the distro from outer space" would make a nice advert :)
[02:58] <tarzeau> distro from northpole would be nice too, wouldn't it?
[02:58] <tarzeau> especially when you shipped it on 24th dec
[02:58] <ogra> heh
[02:59] <ogra> pitti: did you send heise a note ?
[02:59] <pitti> ogra: no, not yet
[02:59] <pitti> ogra: I'm still waiting for the next catastrophy which blocks the preview another day
[03:00] <pitti> ogra: no, seriously, didn't find the time to do so 
[03:00] <ogra> pitti: much to late now
[03:00] <ogra> (for blocking)
[03:00] <pitti> ogra: all my machines were tested successfully. worksforme -> out with it :-)
[03:01] <ogra> nearly the same here...beside one bug in the detetion of my widescreen display
[03:16] <jdub> Riddell: http://dot.kde.org/1110426963/
[03:16] <jdub> Riddell: see that?
[03:16] <Riddell> jdub: of course, I approved it
[03:17] <Riddell> jdub: I've spoken to them about doing a kubuntu-amarok in future
[03:17] <daniels> svenl: i'm uncomfortable with the hack, and i do not have the time to port the radeon driver.  i don't appreciate being given ultimatums, either.  if you want to actually provide a full patch, please do that, and i'll look at it.  if you want to fix the pcigart fallback, even better.  but please realise that I have even less time than you do (I'm in the middle of moving right now, as well as Hoary), so really, telling me to do one or the othe
[03:17] <jdub> Riddell: tops.
[03:17] <daniels> mdz: is xserver even a virtual package at all?
[03:17] <svenl> daniels: hey, don't take it badly, it was not meant so.
[03:17] <daniels> mdz: i suppose the main value comes in that external modules can depend on xserver-xorg if they're compiled, although the value of a debugging server when you're loading external modules is severely decreased
[03:18] <svenl> daniels: you said you would add the bustype thing first, and then continue telling me you don't like the hack :/
[03:18] <daniels> svenl: i said i'd think about it.
[03:18] <svenl> daniels: why you dislike it so much ? And what do you think i can propose apart from the full pcigart fallback patch that would be acceptable to you ?
[03:19] <daniels> svenl: because it's an ugly hack, dude.  you do realise that there is absolutely no precedent for testing for a specific machine type and adding device-specific options?
[03:19] <daniels> svenl: no-one's done this before, because it's really, really ugly.
[03:20] <zul> there thats better...hey
[03:21] <jdub> Riddell: amarok-gstreamer is in universe - intended?
[03:22] <svenl> daniels: ok, but you suggest no alternative ? It is not my fault that pcigart fallback has been broken in X.org for ages.
[03:22] <svenl> daniels: what do you think as alternative to have mentioned in the release notes that it should be added by hand ? It will not break X, just DRI accel.
[03:22] <daniels> svenl: it's not my fault, either.  i'm saying that I don't like an incredibly nasty hack that no-one has ever done before, and I don't have the time to integrate the full fix.
[03:23] <daniels> svenl: 'DRI is broken on Pegaos machines and whatever crazy Intel machines that provide AGP slots that aren't AGP slots.  We know.  It will probably get fixed in Bendy or something.'
[03:23] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, I'll be up for ages
[03:23] <daniels> svenl: dri not working is just so far down on my list of things that I consider bugs that it's not funny
[03:23] <svenl> daniels: what about checking that there is no agpgart for a given hardware and setting bustype pci then ?
[03:24] <daniels> svenl: given that my bug list is currently filled with 'does not work' 'hangs my machine' 'crashes and then leaves my keyboard in an unusable state'
[03:24] <daniels> not 'can't watch glxgears whizzing around'
[03:24] <daniels> svenl: err ... how do you propose to do that?
[03:24] <svenl> daniels: the current drivers will disable dri for whatever motherboard (including x86) which has no agpgart.
[03:24] <daniels> right
[03:24] <daniels> i don't think this is the worst problem ever
[03:25] <svenl> altough pcigart will work in these case.
[03:25] <daniels> given we don't have anything to set up pcie garts, and regressing acceleration on pci (or fake agp, whatever) radeons really isn't a very bad thing
[03:25] <Kamion> daniels: yeah, xserver-xfree86 has provided xserver for a long time
[03:25] <kent> If i try to install Hoary with qemu (I have no free partition to play with), should i still report bugs (if found)? Or does the use of qemu make the bug reports of low value to Hoary developers?
[03:25] <daniels> Kamion: oh, right.  well, -dbg should provide it also.
[03:25] <svenl> nope, but maybe related to the 'my machine hangs' whenpeople force suff :)
[03:25] <Kamion> daniels: it dates to xfree86v3 days, when depending on xserver made sense 'cos there were lots of them
[03:25] <daniels> if you force stuff, you get to keep both pieces
[03:25] <daniels> Kamion: yeah
[03:26] <daniels> svenl: seriously, if you add Option "AGPFastWrite" to your configuration and your machine locks up dead, I don't care
[03:26] <svenl> I will try to find time to port the pcigart-fallback patch from debian, but i can't promise nothing.
[03:26] <daniels> svenl: my aim is to get 2D working absolutely out of the box for absolutely everyone.  3d acceleration is a nice bonus.
[03:26] <Kamion> kent: not exceptionally high priority maybe, but the bugs are still valuable
[03:26] <daniels> svenl: i doubt it's a patch from debian, it's probably just something that broke since radeon_driver has changed so much
[03:26] <svenl> daniels: 2D performance is vastly improved on radeon with DRI.
[03:27] <svenl> daniels: we will see.
[03:27] <svenl> daniels: still, the workaround would be upto 5 lines of shell script, and d-i stuff is full of this, so it is not unprecedented.
[03:28] <daniels> svenl: yes, but I have to maintain xserver-xorg, and the configuration there is unmaintainable as it is
[03:29] <daniels> svenl: and yeah, I know the difference in 2D performance.  but I could spend a while making sure that all i8xx owners can actually get X started, or I could make sure that people who owned PCI Radeons or fake-AGP Radeons got every last drop of performance out of their card ... I know which I'd rather.
[03:29] <pitti_> daniels: kudos, preview works great on my flatmate's widescreen laptop (it was completely b0rked about a month ago)
[03:30] <daniels> pitti_: oh cool.   it might well break again after preview. :\  but we'll see.
[03:30] <seb128> pitti_: around ?
[03:30] <pitti_> seb128: of course :-)
[03:30] <pitti_> seb128: currently installing my desktop, that's why I'm at the laptop now
[03:30] <seb128> pitti_: <jody> Can you put him in contact with me
[03:30] <seb128> pitti_: about the libgnomecups regression
[03:30] <pitti_> seb128: oh, is that the g-cups-manager guy?
[03:31] <seb128> you can query him on irc.gnome ?
[03:31] <pitti_> cool
[03:31] <sivang> seb128: what regression are we talking about?
[03:31] <pitti_> hm, I didn't investigate this problem yet, but I'll do
[03:31] <smurfix> Bah. language-support-en deps on openoffice.org-l10n-en which deps on openoffice :-/
 the "Paper" and "Complex" register cards of the properties window are empty
[03:31] <pitti_> smurfix: erm, shouldn't
[03:31] <smurfix> doesn't any more
[03:31] <sivang> pitti_: lemme know if I can help on those, I am alrady in contact with jody
[03:31] <Kamion>  Depends: openoffice.org (>> 1.1.1+1.1.2) | language-support-en
[03:32] <pitti_> Depends: openoffice.org (>> 1.1.1+1.1.2) | language-support-en
[03:32] <seb128> pitti_: short story: I've said to JHM to not update in debian and he has said to jody that's broken
[03:32] <pitti_> smurfix: ^ 
[03:32] <pitti_> seb128: I join the channel
[03:32] <seb128> ah
[03:32] <sivang> hey jody :-)
[03:33] <pitti_> Hi jody 
[03:33] <pitti_> jody: welcome to the Ubuntu channel :-)
[03:33] <jody> Good morning lads
[03:33] <jody> pitti_: I here you've got problems with libgnomecups 0.30
[03:33] <pitti_> jody: I /msg you
[03:33] <jody> blah, 0.2.0
[03:34] <smurfix> This morning the German mirror still had the old dep
[03:34] <daniels> ok, i'm going back to bed; not feeling very well.
[03:34] <dholbach> daniels: hope you get well soon, good night
[03:34] <smurfix> daniels: take care
[03:34] <pitti_> smurfix: it's like this for ages (months) now...
[03:35] <smurfix> pitti_: strange
[03:35] <smurfix> I'll re-check later
[03:35] <smurfix> installing the package in aptitude definitely pulled in all the OOo crap
[03:36] <jdub> hi jody :-)
[03:39] <svenl> daniels: but the xresprobe is worth fixing if i provide you a clean patch ?
[03:47] <ogra> pitti_, i mailed the link to the announcement to heise and golem shortly after we talked....
[03:48] <pitti_> cool, thanks
[03:48] <ogra> pitti_: but i think heise will ignore us again
[03:49] <ogra> (hopefully a golem message forces them)
[03:54] <sivang> bah, no network on the livecd :-( i had to enable it manually, since the /etc/netowrk/intefaces file has only loopback
[03:54] <sivang> known issue?
[03:55] <sivang> (i have 2 nics)
[03:55] <ogra> sivang: a bit late to report that :) preview is already out
[03:55] <Burgundavia> that is why it is a preview
[03:56] <pitti_> sivang: worked fine for all my tests 
[03:56] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: where is the bug report ? i  will reopen/add comments
[03:56] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: (sorry, meaning, what is the bug number)
[03:56] <pitti_> sivang_livecd: which bug report?
 sivang: worked fine for all my tests 
[03:57] <pitti_> sivang_livecd: I checked it on five computers
[03:57] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: hmmm
[03:57] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: interesting
[03:57] <ogra> sivang_livecd: i checked on 3 (2 arches)
[03:57] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: maybe it's my crazy system
[03:57] <Kamion> sivang_livecd: the live CD tries to enable the network automatically, but if it can't for whatever reason then it won't ask you questions
[03:57] <Kamion> sivang_livecd: compare with the install CD and see what questions it asks
[03:58] <Kamion> the process is largely the same, but the live CD forces it to be noninteractive
[04:02] <mako> woot
[04:02] <mako> mdz: hey.. your post needs moderation :)
[04:02] <Keybuk> I had images of him psychically connected to the servers, and suddenly sitting up in bed screaming as the release went out and they started to take the strain
[04:03] <pitti_> yay, another successful i386 installation
[04:03] <mako> mdz: no.. it's done
[04:05] <jdub> mako: :)
[04:07] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: 17:00utc has passed already? :-)
[04:08] <pitti> no
[04:08] <pitti> it's 15:08 UTC
[04:08] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: oh, so the preview hasn't been released yet right?
[04:08] <pitti> not officially
[04:08] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: k
[04:08] <pitti> however, the images are ready
[04:08] <Kamion> erm, it has
[04:08] <Kamion> it went out officially a couple of hours ago
[04:08] <sivang_livecd> Kamion: oops
[04:08] <ogra> sivang_livecd: the announcement got out some hours ago
[04:08] <pitti_> Kamion: oh, did it?
[04:09] <Kamion> yes
[04:09] <Burgundavia> sivang_livecd: suggest you read the top of distrowatch
[04:09] <pitti_> Kamion: I thought sabdfl told us sth. like 1800 UTC
[04:09] <pitti_> hmm
[04:09] <pitti_> darn
[04:09] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: yes, that what i recalled from the last email of mdz
[04:09] <sivang_livecd> pitti_: or on the channel
[04:09] <Kamion> it was going to be 1800, but everything seemed to be ready, and sabdfl said let's do it early to catch the news in all US timezones
[04:10] <sivang_livecd> Kamion: ok, then off to translating and spreading the announcment , is the draft on the wiki still applicable?
[04:10] <ogra> Kamion: btw, no announcement on http://ubuntulinux.org/ ?
[04:11] <pitti_> cool, so I missed the release
[04:11] <pitti_> darn
[04:11] <pitti_> CONGRATS EVERYBODY!!!
[04:11] <ogra> heh
[04:11] <Kamion> ogra: probably should be ...
[04:12] <pitti_> so why is the preview release not on the www.ubuntu.com frontpage
[04:12] <Kamion> sivang_livecd: yeah, or see ubuntu-announce@ for what actually went out
[04:12] <pitti_> or not even in thew news section
[04:12] <ogra> pitti_: thats what i was asking :)
[04:12] <Kamion> I'm not sure how the news stuff works
[04:12] <Kamion> mako: around?
[04:13] <Kamion> sivang_livecd: which of your NICs should have been used?
[04:14] <Kamion> sivang_livecd: sorry it went out earlier than intended, we probably should have remembered to contact announcement translators
[04:14] <Kamion> sivang_livecd: I've added that to our release checklist
[04:16] <sivang> Kamion: I can add news
[04:16] <sivang> Kamion: (as I added the bit about arsetechnica)
[04:17] <smurfix> sivang: Mind the typo
[04:17] <sivang> smurfix: in the name? :-)
[04:18] <zul> announcement should be on slashdot if you want alot of publicitiy
[04:18] <smurfix> sivang: Yeah, "arsetechnica" looks ... slightly wrong, somehow
[04:19] <sivang> smurfix: well, I don't recall if I did a type on the news bit...sorry :-/
[04:19] <smurfix> sivang: The news bit looks OK
[04:19] <zul> hey lamont_r
[04:19] <pitti> Hi lamont_r 
[04:20] <Kamion> "ars technica"
[04:20] <Kamion> or maybe no space
[04:21] <sivang> Kamion: nothing on u-announce, I'm afraid
[04:21] <Kamion> I have it on ubuntu-announce@ here
[04:22] <Kamion> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2005-March/000019.html
[04:22] <sivang> Kamion: thanks, I have only the UDU there
[04:26] <jdub> seb128: hmm, sabayon release :)
[04:26] <dholbach> were on LWN.net
[04:27] <seb128> jdub: yeah, I've started to package it
[04:27] <jdub> heh :)
[04:28] <jdub> "Administrator level permissions are needed to run this program because it can modify system files."
[04:28] <jdub> ^ ber
[04:28] <seb128> jdub: but I need to figure what to do with the user to add and some stuff
[04:28] <smurfix> Ah, cdimage.u.c is already slowing down. :-/
[04:29] <lamont_r>    559190016 100%    1.16MB/s    0:07:38  (1, 100.0% of 1)
[04:29] <lamont_r> not so bad...
[04:29] <smurfix> We should probably encourage people to use BitTorrent if possible ..?
[04:30] <lamont_r> certainly
[04:30] <smurfix> lamont_r: Where's that from? cdimage?
[04:31] <lamont_r> yeag
[04:31] <lamont_r> to yesterday's image - only really transferred 39MB... :-0)
[04:32] <lamont_r> given that the link I'm borrowing right now is only 1.5 mbits/sec....
[04:32] <jbailey> What the right bugzilla classification for bugs that affect debian but not us that got propagated to bugzilla?
[04:32] <lamont_r> NOTWARTY
[04:32] <pitti> jbailey: RESOLVED/NOTWARTY
[04:33] <jdub> seb128: home == /var/lib/sabayon ?
[04:33] <jbailey> pitti: Thanks.
[04:33] <lamont_r> and one of these days, that'll get renamed to NOTUBUNTU, but probably not before hoary ...
[04:33] <lamont_r> or so I've heard rumoured...
[04:33] <seb128> jdub: does it need a home ?
[04:33] <jdub> yeah
[04:34] <mako> Kamion: yes
[04:34] <ogra> lamont_r: oh, you talked to the malone guys ? :-P
[04:34] <mako> Kamion: was caffienating :)
[04:34] <fabbione> re
[04:35] <pitti> hey fabbione, slept well?
[04:35] <lamont_r> right.  livecd finished downloading.  heading home
[04:35] <lamont_r> b1t3 m3!
[04:35] <lamont_r> gah!
[04:36] <fabbione> pitti: yeah it was really needed
[04:36] <ogra> pitti, http://www.golem.de/0503/36865.html
[04:36] <ogra> :-D
[04:37] <fabbione> elmo: you awake?
[04:37] <sivang> releases.ubuntu.com is down for some reason?
[04:37] <sivang> (can't get to it)
[04:38] <fabbione> sivang: probably overloaded
[04:38] <maswan> sivang: I'm currently mirroring from it, so it seems to be ok.
[04:38] <dholbach> ogra: wow... we have "PowerOC" ISOs as well?
[04:38] <maswan> I was thinking that I should have gotten that done earlier though
[04:39] <ogra> dholbach: only OC 64 yet, but they are hidden somehow....lol
[04:39] <sivang> I can ping to it (64 bytes from 82.211.81.155: icmp_seq=1 ttl=49 time=86.0 ms
[04:39] <sivang> but don't get a response, probably overloaded.
[04:41] <maswan> in an hour or less: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu-releases/
[04:41] <thom> sivang: kicked it, thanks
[04:42] <dholbach> i'll be back later... *wave*
[04:42] <sivang> thom: no, thank you :-)
[04:43] <Kamion> mako: can we get something about hoary preview on www.ubuntu.com?
[04:43] <sivang> argh, what is that apt-get.org doing there? :-)
[04:47] <Kamion> sivang: that was Mark's addition
[04:47] <Kamion> (I believe)
[04:48] <ogra> i thought elmos
[04:48] <Kamion> that would surprise me
[04:48] <mako> Kamion: yeah, i'll do that
[04:49] <Kamion> Does anyone know how to test the return value of setlocale(LC_ALL, $LANG) from shell?
[04:49] <ogra> Kamion: i just remember his name mentioned in relation to it....
[04:49] <Kamion> ogra: yes, that was Mark asking him if it was accurate because elmo did a lot of the imports for multiverse
[04:49] <Kamion> shortly after warty released IIRC
[04:49] <ogra> ah, ok
[04:50] <Kamion> I suppose I could do perl -e setlocale or something
[04:51] <Kamion> there's 'locale -a', but it's in an annoying form
[04:52] <Kamion> and wow, no way am I going to parse the output of 'locale -av'
[04:53] <thom> Kamion: wimp ;-)
[04:53] <lamont> Kamion: that's almost parsable
[04:58] <srbaker> anyone know of a gnome app that will let me change between wifi networks?
[04:58] <srbaker> or, autosensing a la Rendesvous would be nice :)
[04:58] <Mithrandir> srbaker: networkmanager or netapplet
[04:58] <tseng> netapplet and networkmanager both try to fill that niche
[04:58] <tseng> both fail so far
[04:59] <tseng> net applet is a fair bit more usable
[04:59] <srbaker> okay
[04:59] <srbaker> thanks
[04:59] <Kamion> lamont: if you're INSANE
[04:59] <sabdfl> netapplet has some bad side effects if you have multiple wifi networks around
[04:59] <lamont> Kamion: you have doubts? :-)
[04:59] <sabdfl> for me, at least
[05:00] <tseng> sabdfl: its not a fan of the ipw2200 drivers either
[05:00] <tseng> since the dont report signal in a standard way
[05:00] <Kamion> lamont: ...
[05:04] <lamont> yum. new bind9 bits coming
[05:04] <lamont> but not for hoary, of course./
[05:04] <jdub> lamont: you mentioned postfix-tls cert love? uses ssl-cert?
[05:05] <mroth> the other thing to look at in addition to GUI switching of wifi networks is something that integrates WPA support for end-users in a easy to use way
[05:05] <lamont> Kamion: daily/current is the preview, yes?
[05:05] <mroth> (for next release cycle, of course)
[05:05] <lamont> guess I could just verify sums..
[05:05] <lamont> mroth: WPA?
[05:06] <mroth> lamont: wifi protected access... standard WEP replacement
[05:06] <lamont> ah,ok
[05:06] <maswan> So, feel fre to redirect people here if releases gets too busy: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu-releases/
[05:07] <jdub> mroth: NM is getting some of that
[05:07] <jdub> might be ready for hoary+1
[05:07] <mroth> that would be nice
[05:07] <mroth> lot of users out there who dont want to edit a wpa_supplicant.conf file, dont blame em
[05:08] <Kamion> lamont: yes
[05:08] <Kamion> maswan: thanks; we need to update www.u.c/download/ somehow too
[05:09] <Kamion> maswan: can you arrange for IndexIgnore in .htaccess to be permitted in that directory, so that jigit and favicon.ico don't show up?
[05:10] <Tux-Rox> Any plans to try and get Beagle into 5.04?
[05:10] <Kamion> not 5.04, maybe 5.10
[05:11] <Tux-Rox> With a back-port repo version available, I hope! :-)
[05:11] <jdub> not in main
[05:11] <jdub> it may be in universe
[05:12] <Kamion> ick, backports
[05:12] <lamont> jdub: so how much of hoary are we gonna backport to warty, huh, huh, huh????
[05:12] <sabdfl> lamont: only the gnome parts
[05:12] <Kamion> we do six-month releases, any more than that is just impatient :-)
[05:12] <mroth> countdown to slashdot post "omg why does hoary not have firefox 1.0.1--it is totally useless!"
[05:12] <Tux-Rox> That would be nice. I've got it going now, but it does have a few issues yet. Hopefully they will get ironed out. Thx for the info!
[05:12] <Kamion> mroth: hoary final probably will
[05:12] <jdub> backports are vile and reprehensible :-)
[05:12] <mroth> Kamion: I know that, you know that, but slashdot posters, well... ;-)
[05:13] <Kamion> mroth: this is why I do not read /. :-)
[05:13] <lamont> jdub: you know that, I now that... But does that stop them???
[05:13] <Kamion> well, actually, it's more 'cos I once had an entire story dedicated to vilifying me
[05:13] <Kamion> but that's another matter :)
[05:13] <Tux-Rox> It's one thing to read /. objectively, it's quite another to post.....
[05:13] <mroth> Kamion: haha, what story was that?
[05:13] <jdub> lamont: the sf.net ones are stunningly broken
[05:13] <jdub> lamont: have you looked at the version numbers?
[05:14] <Kamion> mroth: some half-baked early-release story about Debian splitting non-free bits out of the doc-linux package
[05:14] <Kamion> which I maintained at the time
[05:14] <mroth> ahh
[05:14] <Kamion> we didn't even do the split until a year or more later, but that didn't stop slashdo
[05:14] <Kamion> t
[05:15] <sivang> Kamion: the shrinkwrapped cds are like bussiness card cds?
[05:15] <lamont> jdub: I ignore backports other than the ones on people.debian.org/~lamont/woody-updates
[05:16] <jdub> heh
[05:17] <mroth> did mako get the new shipit thing up?  i bet preview is going to generate a lot of cd orders
[05:17] <lamont> sabdfl: feeling sorry over the artwork, eh?
[05:17] <sabdfl> lamont: that part we can forward-port
[05:18] <Kamion> sivang: no
[05:18] <lamont> lol
[05:18] <Kamion> sivang: we don't do netinsts or businesscards at the moment
[05:18] <sivang> Kamion: ah ok, so what are "shrinkwrapped" cds? :)
[05:18] <Kamion> sivang: we may do at some point, but they'll be on an "if you know about them, you can use them" kind of basis, not heavily promoted to avoid confusion with the full CDs
[05:18] <Nafallo> all files disassociate their programsettings. is this a local bug?
[05:18] <maswan> Kamion: Hmm... I'm not sure we have anytihng like that active at all. I'll have to check the config files.
[05:18] <Kamion> sivang: "shrinkwrapped" means officially packaged
[05:19] <Kamion> sivang: it's by analogy with the plastic packaging you get on all sorts of products that shrinks around the product it's wrapping
[05:19] <sivang> Kamion: ah ok, thakns :)
[05:19] <sivang> Kamion: ah right, with vacume used to shrink wrap ;-)
[05:20] <lamont> sivang: sometimes, but not always.
[05:20] <lamont> some of it truely is heat-shrinked
[05:20] <lamont> shrunk.
[05:20] <lamont> whatever
[05:21] <lamont> thom: wanna know why you don't get /etc/aliases.db on a fresh install?
[05:21] <jdub> seb128: you were chatting to carlos earlier about i18n issues - any answers for the new .desktop file translations?
[05:22] <seb128> the translations are in rosetta but not in the langpacks
[05:22] <Kamion> lamont: huh?
[05:22] <thom> lamont: oh?
[05:22] <seb128> ie: we need to merge them by hand for the moment
[05:22] <jdub> yeah
[05:22] <jdub> hrm
[05:22] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/debootstrap/debootstrap-0.2.45ubuntu25>$ wcgrep aliases
[05:22] <lamont> Kamion: from deep inside debootstrap somewhere, ls -l /usr/sbin/sendmail*
[05:22] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/debootstrap/debootstrap-0.2.45ubuntu25>$
[05:23] <lamont> you'll find sendmail.REAL, and sendmail -> /bin/true
[05:23] <Kamion> lamont: hah, yeah, that's kind of necessary
[05:23] <lamont> and newaliases is, of course, a symlink to sendmail
[05:23] <Kamion> don't want it actually sending mail
[05:23] <lamont> right
[05:23] <maswan> Kamion: http://churchill.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu-releases/
[05:23] <maswan> Kamion: like that?
[05:23] <Kamion> maswan: yeah
[05:23] <lamont> fortunately, postalias works almost as well.
[05:23] <Kamion> maswan: (this is like really minor nitpicking)
[05:23] <lamont> so I don't have to detect debootstrap
[05:23] <Kamion> cool
[05:24] <maswan> Kamion: Ok, I'll see if I can get that propagated to the proper machines then
[05:24] <Mithrandir> mako: you're on BoingBoing :)
[05:24] <lamont> (postalias doesn't use $alias_database, but I _know_ what that says on a fresh install...)
[05:25] <Kamion> maswan: ta
[05:25] <lamont> although detecting it isn't so hard... just 'newaliases --this-is-fatal': if that succeeds, then you've been diverted.
[05:26] <lamont> "american english" keyboard == pc105?
[05:27] <Mithrandir> probably 104 if you have windows keys
[05:27] <Mithrandir> 101 if not
[05:27] <Mithrandir> iirc
[05:30] <mako> Mithrandir: again?!
[05:30] <mako> Mithrandir: dude, this is the second time this week!
[05:33] <lamont> hrm.. maybe writing that 4x CD-R at 16x was bad...
[05:34] <HiddenWolf> lol@lamont
[05:34] <mako> Mithrandir: thanks for telling me :) i'm still feeling the bandwidth crunch from unhappybirthday.com :-/
[05:34] <lamont> oh yeah.. wrote 454/515 MB.. :-(
[05:35] <maswan> Kamion: there, all done: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu-releases/
[05:36] <maswan> Right now I'm having fun in that the gnome livecd generated about 100-200Mbit extra traffic, and the ftp mirror isn't even breathing hard. :)
[05:37] <Kamion> maswan: ta
[05:37] <Mithrandir> mako: about the 419 mail.
[05:38] <Mithrandir> mako: you rock, but you knew that already. :)
[05:41] <pitti> lamont: wanna build a new house with them? :)
[05:41] <Mithrandir> lamont: imagine what would happen if he shipped them to you.
[05:41] <Keybuk> knowing Jane, she'd make sure you got them
[05:41] <Keybuk> by air drop
[05:41] <silbs> all in one big package
[05:41] <Mithrandir> lamont: or even if he cut it by a bit, but shipped you 50k
[05:41] <mpt_london> A crate of them on your vege garden
[05:42] <mako> lamont: try it
[05:42] <mako> lamont: i've actually made that impossible
[05:42] <mako> lamont: i am the only person who can order 100000000 cds now
[05:42] <mako> lamont: you ahev to do it through mine
[05:43] <Mithrandir> mako: he'll just trojan your computer
[05:45] <mako> Mithrandir: well, actually, he could do it from chinstrap probably
[05:45] <mako> you can only place large orders from chinstrap
[05:45] <toresbe> I... HATE... ncurses
[05:46] <mako> thom: we better get those to him quick.. i've heard rumors of increased volcacnic activity in his area
[05:46] <toresbe> Why must it point out my C newbishness with such skill?
[05:46] <thom> mako: i think the impact of the cds will help the volcano come to life
[05:46] <Mithrandir> toresbe: it has been honed for many years.
[05:47] <toresbe> This piece of code worked. I went out to the kitchen for a dinner. I return.
[05:47] <toresbe> Program does not work.
[05:48] <Mithrandir> it's probably an error on line 46
[05:48] <toresbe> 46: main (int argc, char *argv[] ) :P
[05:48] <Mithrandir> good guess, heh?
[05:48] <toresbe> Well, look! No more segfaults.
[05:49] <lamont> mako: nice
[05:49] <lamont> ejsy frgomrd 
[05:49] <lamont> what defines 'large'
[05:49] <lamont> damn keyboard
[05:50] <lamont> hrm... 300 is large.
[05:50] <fabbione> mako: i just updated my order for hoary.. mind to check if you get the proper DAnish chars?
[05:51] <lamont> mako: will probably be re-shipping several of them to family members around the country, and then I plan to paper a school or two
[05:52] <lamont> s/school/city/
[05:55] <Kamion> pitti: have you done the new language packs yet, or do I have time to slip in a change?
[05:56] <pitti> Kamion: already uploaded a few hours ago :-(
[05:56] <pitti> Kamion: what do you want to change?
[05:56] <pitti> Kamion: I can't do update packages until the dpkg bug is fixed
[05:57] <Kamion> pitti: about to upload glibc with a new --keep-existing flag to locale-gen
[05:57] <pitti> yay
[05:57] <Kamion> I'm bored of locale-gen generating new locales all the time
[05:57] <pitti> Kamion: thanks, that's great
[05:57] <Kamion> or rather, locales it already has
[05:57] <thom> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ ; i hate writing html :P
[05:58] <jdub> ah, give it to someone you know who loves it :)
[05:58] <jdub> LAMONT! thom wants to speak to you!
[05:58] <thom> jdub: thanks; i'll mail you the script
[05:58] <thom> it's embedded in perl, btw
[05:58] <Kamion> it's a bit RED :)
[05:58] <jdub> heh
[05:58] <thom> just for extra love
[05:59] <jdub> golly
[05:59] <Hannes_> nvu :P
[05:59] <pitti> thom: erm, the white line is amd64?
[05:59] <thom> Kamion: it just does what the css tells me
[05:59] <jdub> thom: hey, maybe steal css from planet ubuntu
[05:59] <thom> pitti: all
[05:59] <jdub> thom: it routes around some plone damage
[05:59] <thom> jdub: is that less damaged?
[05:59] <thom> cool
[05:59] <Kamion> pitti: it doesn't do removals from locale-archive, so your prerm/postrm scripts or whatever still have to run 'locale-gen' without arguments
[05:59] <pitti> thom: the key to the right of the diagram has a white background, I can't read the white text on it :-/
[06:00] <Kamion> pitti: and you need to depend on locales (>= 2.3.2.ds1-20ubuntu10)
[06:00] <pitti> Kamion: okay, I already modify the templates, so that I don't forget about it
[06:00] <jbailey> Kamion: Will that do the right thing when locales actually change?
[06:01] <koke> jdub: I don't see you in #gnome, do you know what happened to gnome 2.10 spanish release notes?
[06:01] <Kamion> jbailey: locales still runs locale-gen without arguments on upgrade, which will regenerate everything from scratch
[06:01] <jbailey> Ah, cool.
[06:01] <Kamion> it's an option for the case where you're running locale-gen multiple times in sequence without upgrading locales
[06:01] <pitti> Kamion: please wait with upload
[06:01] <thom> pitti: yeah
[06:01] <thom> jdub: thanks, that looks better
[06:01] <pitti> Kamion: the langpack just does "/usr/sbin/install-language-locales %LCODE%"
[06:01] <pitti> Kamion: so you have to change this script in glibc 
[06:02] <Kamion> pitti: oh, ok
[06:02] <pitti> Kamion: I added this abstraction to have the script on one central place
[06:02] <pitti> Kamion: did you already upload?
[06:02] <Kamion> no, not yet
[06:02] <pitti> cool
[06:02] <Kamion> cool, no dependency needed then
[06:03] <pitti> yes
[06:03] <jdub> koke: they were broken when i built them
[06:03] <pitti> well, at least not a new one
[06:03] <jdub> koke: might've been updated, but i haven't done another run
[06:03] <koke> jdub: when was that??
[06:03] <pitti> Kamion: it already depends on the versions that provides install-language-locales
[06:03] <Kamion> pitti: indeed
[06:03] <jdub> the current release notes module layout is a bit bong
[06:03] <jdub> koke: mere hours before release
[06:04] <koke> murrayc updated the es.po for me after the release
[06:06] <lamont> hrm.. this 5 year old media really sucks
[06:07] <Kamion> pitti: whoa, install-language-locales sorts the comment at the top of /etc/locale.gen
[06:08] <Kamion> pitti: I'll not fix that now; but maybe you could just remove the sort?
[06:08] <lamont> especially since people might put comments right above various entries in the file, etc.
[06:08] <Kamion> yeah
[06:08] <mpt_london> Kamion: Please add to <http://releases.ubuntu.com/hoary/> a link to the release notes. Perhaps as the first sentence before "Ubuntu is distributed on...", something like: "This is the second major release of Ubuntu, a free operating system based on the Linux kernel. To find out what's new in this release, see the _release notes_."
[06:09] <Kamion> it isn't the second major release, it's a preview of the second major release
[06:09] <pitti> Kamion: which comment?
[06:09] <Kamion> pitti: all of them
[06:09] <Kamion> pitti: it does 'sort -u /etc/locale.gen'
[06:09] <mpt_london> Kamion: sure
[06:09] <Kamion> mpt_london: but yeah; any idea where the release notes are?
[06:09] <pitti> Kamion: normal #-style ones?
[06:09] <Kamion> pitti: yes, locales puts some there by default
[06:09] <mpt_london> Kamion: No -- that's part of th reason I'm asking for a link to them ;-)
[06:10] <Kamion> hm
[06:10] <Kamion> ok, in a bit :)
[06:10] <pitti> Kamion: I probably removed them when I played around with this
[06:10] <mpt_london> Kamion: Once I know where they are, perhaps I could help with jdub's "a bit bong" problem
[06:10] <Kamion> pitti: probably not absolutely trivially fixable, so will defer
[06:10] <pitti> Kamion: I see, I have to improve the the check 
[06:10] <pitti> Kamion: I will send you an updated script 
[06:11] <pitti> Kamion: tomorrow, probably, I still have some RL stuff to do today
[06:11] <Kamion> pitti: ok. I'll do this upload now so we get the live CD speedup
[06:11] <jdub> mpt_london: we were talking about the gnome release notes
[06:12] <Hannes_> btw does the live cd boot from an -USB-stick?
[06:13] <Kamion> Hannes_: not at the moment I think, but it would probably be possible to make it do so with a bit of hacking
[06:13] <Hannes_> ok
[06:13] <Kamion> casper is fairly generic at least in principle
[06:13] <Kamion> but you won't be able to write it to a USB stick and have it Just Work
[06:13] <Kamion> yet
[06:13] <Hannes_> as it would be nice to use it from there
[06:14] <Kamion> nod
[06:15] <Hannes_> or could you install it there with the install-disk?
[06:15] <Kamion> theoretically, but there are a number of bugs surrounding that
[06:15] <Kamion> you can certainly try it though, would probably only involve some minor bootloader hacking at worst
[06:16] <mpt_london> jdub: Well, with all due respect, there's lots about gnome that's a bit bong ;-)
[06:16] <Kamion> easier than making the live CD boot from there :)
[06:16] <Hannes_> but it would be good to have the "system check" (as in live cd) as you use it in different places
[06:16] <Hannes_> Kamion: yes, i know
[06:16] <fabbione> mjg59: ping?
[06:16] <Kamion> Hannes_: yeah
[06:16] <jdub> Kamion: ubuntu release notes haven't been officially published yet
[06:17] <jdub> Kamion: mako has some autobuilt samples, but that's it
[06:17] <fabbione> now that i have hibernate my machine... how do i bring it back to life?
[06:17] <Hannes_> fabbione: power button on my machine
[06:17] <Kamion> fabbione: switch it on
[06:17] <mpt_london> jdub: What was that that was in the topic before, then? Was that just a draft?
[06:17] <jdub> i don't know
[06:18] <Kamion> fabbione: hibernate is "save all state to disk, tell initrd to resume from there, power off"
[06:18] <fabbione> HMMMM
[06:18] <fabbione> it never did a poweroff
[06:18] <Hannes_> Kamion: one + with the usbstick is that you could (mabye) save to it
[06:18] <fabbione> and pushing the power button has the effect of a bit of disk activity and that's it
[06:18] <mako> jdub: i'm trying to find context
[06:18] <mako> jdub: what i have i built?
[06:19] <jdub> mako: release notes samples
[06:19] <mako> userlinux stuff, etc?
[06:19] <mpt_london> ah, here it is http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DraftHoaryPreviewAnnouncement
[06:19] <mako> jdub: oh yes that too
[06:19] <jdub> mpt_london: hoary preview is announced and shipped
[06:19] <Kamion> linking to the actual archived announcement would be better than that
[06:20] <doko> jdub: so it's ok upload fixes again?
[06:20] <jdub> doko: yes
[06:20] <travail101> any chance of getting linux-wlan-ng added to the live and install CDs?
[06:20] <mpt_london> jdub: I realize that, but if it's announced and shipped, there should be release notes somewhere ...
[06:20] <Kamion> doko: I just uploaded glibc, so I certainly hope so ;)
[06:20] <jdub> mpt_london: the release notes are targeted for the final release
[06:21] <mpt_london> oh
[06:21] <jdub> mpt_london: mako will point you to in-progress samples in a moment
[06:21] <travail101> yes no?
[06:21] <Kamion> jdub: they're linked to from the draft announcement
[06:21] <travail101> maybe?
[06:21] <jdub> Kamion: don't know what i'm explaining it for then ;)
[06:22] <Kamion> travail101: there's been a bit of discussion about it; is it just the userspace tools, or kernel modules as well?
[06:22] <Kamion> travail101: if the latter, they should be integrated into our standard kernels instead
[06:22] <Kamion> travail101: I do agree on the former, but don't know whether there's really time before our next release now
[06:22] <travail101> the drivers are kernel modules...
[06:23] <mako> mpt_london: i'm building the new one right now.. give it like 5 minutes
[06:23] <Kamion> yeah, we require all our supported kernel modules to be in the linux-image-* or linux-restricted-modules-* packages (depending on licensing)
[06:23] <mako> mpt_london: not building, but downloading and installing
[06:23] <travail101> and are of course necessary for Prism2-2.5 card owners to be online with the liveCD
[06:23] <fabbione> travail101: not for hoary.. they will be in hoary+1
[06:23] <Kamion> travail101: right, I have a USB stick that requires them
[06:24] <Kamion> I thought PCI cards worked with the standard Ubuntu kernel though
[06:24] <travail101> that's what kept me from using th liveCD as my preferred rescue disk =P
[06:24] <travail101> Kamion, I also have a USB stick... the D-link DWL-122
[06:24] <Kamion> fabbione: hmm. actually prism2_usb is already in the kernel
[06:25] <travail101> Kamion, it is?
[06:25] <Kamion> see wlan-ng-prism2-usb.dpatch
[06:25] <Kamion> I think it's just a matter of userspace tools
[06:25] <travail101> Kamion, in the vanilla kernel, or the ubuntu kernel?
[06:25] <Kamion> Ubuntu kernel
[06:25] <travail101> oh
[06:25] <travail101> not in worty though right?
[06:25] <Kamion> $ dpkg -c /mirror/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.10/linux-image-2.6.10-4-386_2.6.10-25.1_i386.deb | grep prism2_usb
[06:25] <travail101> warty..
[06:25] <Kamion> -rw-r--r-- root/root     85073 2005-03-09 21:43:26 ./lib/modules/2.6.10-4-386/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/prism2/prism2_usb.ko
[06:26] <Kamion> $ dpkg -c /mirror/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.8.1/linux-image-2.6.8.1-3-386_2.6.8.1-16_i386.deb | grep prism2_usb
[06:26] <Kamion> -rw-r--r-- root/root     84022 2004-10-12 15:19:14 ./lib/modules/2.6.8.1-3-386/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/prism2/prism2_usb.ko
[06:26] <Kamion> yes, it's in the Warty kernel
[06:26] <Kamion> dunno about the live CD
[06:26] <Kamion> the Warty live CD was built in a strange way, so it's hard for me to guess at exactly what's on it
[06:27] <travail101> ah, well I know that modprobe prism2_usb doesn't work on it...
[06:27] <travail101> and I had to use the not so elegent Knoppix to save my computer
[06:27] <Kamion> I'm pretty sure I got my prism2_usb stick to work with just a Hoary install
[06:27] <Kamion> and linux-wlan-ng
[06:28] <Kamion> (userspace)
[06:28] <Kamion> jdub: opinions on linux-wlan-ng in main for hoary? we've discussed it a few times ...
[06:28] <Kamion> getting it to work in the installer would be, er, interesting at this stage, but we could at least make it workable in the installed system
[06:29] <travail101> even if it doesn't automatically set it all up for you, just having it there would be nice for people who can plug in wired to their network whenever they want, or at all
[06:30] <lamont> warty livecd kernel is 2.6.7+stuff - it's not my friend
[06:30] <amu> heh
[06:30] <travail101> but since hotplug will load the drivers, couldn't that initiated a sequence to setup the user tool/scripts and all that
[06:30] <travail101> can= can't
[06:30] <travail101> bad typo, bad bad typo
[06:31] <koke> jdub: about gnome spanish release notes...
 Tell him I'll do it if he wants.
[06:31] <jdub> Kamion: on phone atm
[06:32] <pvanhoof> I'll just copypaste it here :)
[06:32] <pvanhoof>  I've rebuild the software thats available on ubuntu using qc-usb-modules in a more-correct-for-2.6.x kernels build-environment that will be more easy to package and distribute
[06:32] <pvanhoof>  is this the right channel to tell packagers about it?
[06:32] <pvanhoof> http://freax.be/wiki/index.php/Quickcam_Messenger_Linux_kernel_2.6_driver
[06:32] <pvanhoof>  this is a small wiki about it
[06:32] <pvanhoof> dholbach pvanhoof: i believe you have a better audience for kernel matters on #ubuntu-devel 
[06:32] <pvanhoof> so ...
[06:32] <pvanhoof> :)
[06:33] <lamont> travail101: warty live doesn't use hotplug, iirc
[06:33] <jdub> Kamion: off the cuff rigid and boring answer is a pretty strong "no" ;)
[06:33] <travail101> well warty live doesn't even have the drivers
[06:33] <travail101> so this would be for hoary live
[06:33] <Kamion> jdub: thought so
[06:34] <jdub> Kamion: ignoring installer for the moment, does it involve any integration work, or just shipping bits?
[06:34] <Kamion> jdub: afaik, just shipping; people can install it if they need it
[06:35] <Kamion> jdub: ideally it'd all be there by default, but the perfect is the enemy of the good :-)
[06:35] <Kamion> jdub: I can test it out with universe, though
[06:35] <jdub> Kamion: anything scary about installing it by default?
[06:36] <Kamion> it installs if-pre-up.d and if-pre-down.d scripts, and stuff like that; makes it not a trivially obvious "yes"
[06:36] <jdub> mmmm
[06:36] <travail101> still talking about linux-wlan-ng? or something else?
[06:36] <Kamion> travail101: yes, linux-wlan-ng
[06:36] <jdub> travail101: yeah
[06:37] <travail101> it's not hard to install... set up...
[06:37] <Kamion> jdub: I also suspect it's not entirely 2.6ish, but I'm not sure of my ground there
[06:37] <jdub> Kamion: haven't there been maintenance woes upstream, too?
[06:37] <Kamion> jdub: ah, I don't know anything about that
[06:37] <travail101> ubuntu doesn't come with a setup build environment does it?
[06:38] <Kamion> travail101: apt-get install build-essential
[06:38] <tseng> how many cards really arent supported by prism2 now
[06:38] <Kamion> tseng: USB devices are not
[06:38] <tseng> or orinoco
[06:38] <jdub> the big score for wlan-ng is ppc users stuck with usb wifi
[06:38] <Kamion> tseng: at least, you need userspace tools to make them work
[06:38] <jdub> s/ppc/apple+broadcom/
[06:38] <Kamion> the 12" lot
[06:38] <Kamion> (no PCMCIA on the 12" powerbook ...)
[06:39] <jdub> yeah
[06:39] <jdub> 2nd class machines...
[06:39] <jdub> my toilet seat is still grumbling along ;)
[06:40] <Kamion> really it would be better if somebody figured out how to do the linux-wlan-ng integration in a nice hotpluggish way; it's weird and complex atm
[06:40] <travail101> you could check out the knoppix linux-wlan-ng stuff they even have a configuration script... but it requires human input, that could be changed though I suspect, and you could figure out dhcp for it... I still haven't tried to get my to use DHCP
[06:40] <Kamion> travail101: we already have a package in universe
[06:40] <Kamion> it's a question of promoting it, if it works and is supportable
[06:41] <travail101> Kamion, but a downloadable package does no good without internet
[06:41] <Kamion>   * New upstream prerelease (Closes: #269678)
[06:41] <Kamion>  -- Bradley Bell <btb@debian.org>  Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:42:48 -0700
[06:41] <T-Bone> heya!
[06:41] <Kamion> travail101: er, "promoting it" => putting it on the CD
[06:41] <travail101> oh
[06:41] <Kamion> travail101: you are preaching to the choir ;)
[06:41] <travail101> lol
[06:42] <Kamion> boot with normal wireless PCMCIA card, download linux-wlan-ng.deb, remove normal wireless card, insert USB stick ...
[06:43] <Kamion> in fact this USB stick doubles as a disk and a wireless device, so I could also put the .deb on the disk
[06:44] <travail101> i should learn more about scripting, and hotplug/coldplug
[06:44] <travail101> how do you make the system broadcast for DHCP in the background?
[06:44] <travail101> i want that in my Gentoo system...
[06:44] <travail101> so it doesn't stop the boot process just to find out I'm not plugged into the LAN
[06:45] <travail101> a minute later
[06:45] <jdub> thom: around?
[06:45] <thom> jdub: ya
[06:45] <schweeb> travail101: that's more of a #ubuntu question
[06:46] <jdub> thom: so the ff theme stuff, you planning to do that for 1.0.1 upload?
[06:46] <travail101> is it?
[06:46] <thom> which bits?
[06:46] <jdub> thom: (not kill default theme, etc)
[06:46] <travail101> it's... kinda a development question no... only devs should no how to set it up
[06:46] <jdub> thom: (or not display default theme credits)
[06:46] <thom> jdub: oh, right
[06:46] <thom> yeah
[06:47] <jdub> thom: so, i really think the industrial theme is better
[06:47] <jdub> thom: the icons are much sexier, better coverage, etc.
[06:47] <thom> i *really* don't
[06:47] <thom> i'll look at using the icons
[06:47] <jdub> thom: and it does use the gtk theme
[06:47] <jdub> i don't get which bits you don't like
[06:47] <jdub> it's basically good gtk+ theme usage and nicer icons
[06:48] <jdub> it actually looks HIGgy
[06:48] <lamont> pitti: btw, it's not clear on the keyboard chooser whether or not one should hit shift, stick to only unshifted keys, or what...
[06:48] <pitti> lamont: right. smurfix?
[06:49] <smurfix> You should hit the key which has one of the symbols displayed.
[06:49] <smurfix> It'll complain about shift keys (I should probably teach it not to).
[06:50] <thom> i'll try it again
[06:50] <jdub> thom: let me know what is arse :-)
[06:50] <lamont> pitti: oops... er. smurfix 
[06:50] <smurfix> lamont: ;-)
[06:51] <travail101> well apparently it's a mystery because no one ever knows how to do it... not in #ubuntu, #ubuntu-devel, #gentoo... maybe i'll try #knoppix...
[06:52] <lamont> travail101: my laptop just checks to see if it's plugged in before it tries to get an IP
[06:53] <smurfix> Uploading >1 Mbit/sec right now. Cool, lots of bandwidth left here.
[06:53] <lamont> iface eth0 inet dhcp
[06:53] <lamont>         pre-up mii-tool eth0 | grep -q 'link ok'
[06:53] <seb128> thom: around ?
[06:54] <thom> seb128: my eyes are square, but the rest of me is round, yes
[06:54] <travail101> lamont, hmm... well how do you do that then?
[06:54] <seb128> thom: we want to quick mozilla to universe, right ?
[06:54] <travail101> lamont, in a script?
[06:54] <thom> seb128: i'd love to; not sure if we can for hoary
[06:54] <lamont> travail101: in /etc/network/interfaces
[06:55] <lamont> travail101: lets move to #ubuntu
[06:55] <thom> seb128: i guess evo is the biggest blocker
[06:55] <seb128> thom: looking to build evo with it
[06:55] <Kamion> I'm rather surprised that works
[06:55] <thom> seb128: can't you make the ximian folk use gnutls? ;-)
[06:55] <Kamion> seb128: pitti surveyed -users, we decided we'd leave it in main for hoary
[06:56] <seb128> thom: the issue is that it uses heimdal-dev and firefox uses libkrb5-dev ... 
[06:56] <seb128> Kamion: k
[06:56] <thom> oh, cripes
[06:56] <seb128> both conflict, so we need to change one ...
[06:57] <seb128> any idea on which one is better to pick ?
[06:57] <seb128> jbailey: here ?
[06:58] <thom> seb128: none at all
[06:58] <seb128> k
[06:58] <seb128> jbailey has some ideas on that IIRC
[06:58] <thom> i suspect changing firefox to heimdal is saner, but i really don't know
[06:59] <seb128> anybody with an opinion on that ? jdub ?
[06:59] <jbailey> seb128: Eh?
[06:59] <seb128> jbailey: read the log :p
[06:59] <seb128> jbailey: I'm sure you have an idea on that :)
[06:59] <jbailey> On kerberos versus heimdal?
[07:00] <seb128> yep
[07:00] <jdub> seb128: no opinion here.
[07:00] <jbailey> Opinion yes, raw fact based "this is the right way", no.
[07:00] <Kamion> sabdfl: hooray, report on ubuntu-users that the IPW2100 kill switch was detected during install
[07:00] <seb128> either way we should build evo and firefox with the same
[07:00] <jbailey> My experiences with heimdal were not good, and I've deployed krb5 in alot of places.
[07:00] <jbailey> debian-edu uses krb all over the place.
[07:01] <jbailey> Might make the most sense to match what they have.
[07:01] <seb128> k, so rather krb
[07:01] <seb128> thanks
[07:01] <sabdfl> Kamion: that's worth all the beer i can buy you on the 6th
[07:02] <Kamion> sabdfl: ubuntu-devel, rather; http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-March/005379.html
[07:04] <sabdfl> HE WANTS THE NEKKID PEOPLE BACK!
[07:04] <Kamion> I should be careful about giving you URLs ;)
[07:04] <jdub> time for jdub|tv adult edition then?
[07:04] <Kamion> noooooooooo
[07:05] <maswan> yay nekkid people! :)
[07:05] <maswan> jdub: ass.mpeg? :)
[07:05] <jdub> don't have one of those
[07:05] <jdub> but i have a pantsoff.mpeg ;)
[07:05] <dholbach> hehe
[07:06] <jdub> www.gnome.org/~jdub/random/pantsoff.mpeg
[07:06] <Kamion> oh, wow, GNOME does the one nifty-UI-thing about Windows I always liked
[07:06] <maswan> jdub: oh? ass.mpeg was the name I got mmarker's ass signing. :)
[07:06] <maswan> +of
[07:06] <Kamion> drag from file manager into terminal, path gets pasted into terminal
[07:06] <lamont> hrm... damn gstreamer
[07:06] <jdub> i haven't been signed yet
[07:06] <jdub> though i signed george
[07:07] <jdub> Kamion: we love bling terminal crack
[07:07] <maswan> well, there's a theme for the release party? or kickoff?
[07:07] <jdub> Kamion: you ever used skey stuff with ssh?
[07:07] <Kamion> jdub: no
[07:07] <jdub> Kamion: turns out that was red hat's vpn solution for a long time
[07:07] <jdub> Kamion: so g-t has a dingus clicky thing and entry dialogue for skey
[07:07] <jdub> craaaaaaaack
[07:08] <jbailey> seb128: <stockholm> i am useing MIT now, since it is nicely integrated with AFS, and Sam is developer in both effords and is pretty accessible and helpfull
[07:08] <Kamion> jdub: geez
[07:08] <jdub> every now and then someone suggests removing it
[07:08] <amu> sabdfl: oh no x stuff anymore? we are planning a monthly kubuntu-calendar, something like http://www.kulma.org/linux/kde/kone.php?categ=kubuntu&kuva=konqi_together_blue.jpg
[07:08] <jdub> and a thousand voices cry out in anguish
[07:08] <jdub> all wearing red fedoras ;)
[07:09] <jdub> amu: do it! :)
[07:09] <torkel> jbailey: on the other hand arla (the other afs) works better with heimdal
[07:09] <thom> jdub: have you seen Terminal.app ? File/Connect To Server/SSH -> list of servers broadcasting mdns ssh details
[07:09] <jdub> amu: sabdfl mentioned those to me the other night
[07:09] <Mithrandir> amu: nekkid dragons!
[07:09] <seb128> jbailey: k, thanks
[07:09] <sabdfl> amu: those are excellent :-)
[07:09] <jdub> amu: hey, we should swap notes on how to make calendar images available for each desktop
[07:10] <amu> yeah that cool stuff :) i like the idea too much  
[07:10] <sivang> sabdfl: I'd love for the nakkid people to come back :)
[07:10] <jdub> amu: for gnome, you just need an xml file in the right dir
[07:10] <jdub> sivang: nakkid as in knackered? :)
[07:10] <jbailey> torkel: There I'm just quoting why debian-edu has been going with mit.
[07:10] <Riddell> jdub: and it automatically uses that background?
[07:10] <sabdfl> ask jdub he has all the original images and gets to make the monthly selection
[07:11] <amu> jdub: okido :) asap 3.4 is in i've little more time for those things   
[07:11] <dholbach> seb128: only one balsa-old-gtkhtml-crack left on the list ;-)
[07:11] <trulux> pitti: hey Martin
[07:11] <trulux> pitti: how's going there?
[07:11] <jbailey> torkel: Since they're probably the biggest user of kerberos in the Debian space, I'd like to match what they do in the absence of any of pulling reason to go one way or the other.
[07:11] <jdub> Riddell: if you've specifically chosen the 'monthly' background, which is kind of like an alias
[07:11] <jdub> amu: ok, cool
[07:12] <jdub> Riddell: so if you look at ubuntu-calendar-march
[07:12] <jdub> Riddell: there's two images and one xml file
[07:12] <jdub> the xml file describes the images and how they're used as the background
[07:12] <torkel> jbailey: I know, I was just raising my voice for the other camp :-)
[07:12] <jdub> ubuntu-calendar includes one xml file, which defines the monthly calendar
[07:13] <jdub> which points to symlinks
[07:13] <jdub> to the current one
[07:13] <seb128> dholbach: cool
[07:13] <dholbach> jdub: gnome-bluetooth uploaded too
[07:14] <jdub> Riddell: if we can do something similar for kde, or at least symlink them into a default backgrounds directory or something, that'd be rad.
[07:14] <jdub> dholbach: awesome, thanks!
[07:14] <dholbach> jdub: de rien
[07:14] <jdub> we'll have to do a MOTU cheer at UDU
[07:14] <dholbach> YEAH :-)
[07:14] <amu> Riddell: you know basse? probably he can create a first background for kubuntu? it will rock :) 
[07:14] <Riddell> amu: yep
[07:14] <torkel> jbailey: both heimdal and MIT krb are borken in differnt ways, so I guess the best thing is to do a random pick between them, and if it works stay with it ;-)
[07:14] <Kamion> travail101: hmm. so how am I supposed to bring this interface up again? it's hanging on DHCP here
[07:15] <Riddell> jdub: how does the ubuntu-calendar.jpg symlink get made?
[07:15] <jdub> Riddell: that's in ubuntu-calendar
[07:15] <jbailey> torkel: Yup.  And at least just pick one. =)
[07:16] <torkel> jbailey: yeah
[07:16] <Riddell> jdub: ah, and ubuntu-calander gets updated each month with new symlinks and new depends.  sorted.
[07:16] <travail101> Kamion, I've never tried it with DHCP
[07:16] <jdub> Riddell: if i integrate the required kde changes into u-c, i can tidy up my calendar package build scripts so we can all use them
[07:17] <amu> jdub: good idea
[07:18] <Riddell> jdub: KDE just uses images and .desktop files in /usr/share/wallpaper
[07:19] <jdub> ah yes, the universal metadata solution ;)
[07:19] <travail101> Kamion, after loading the modules I run these 4 things
[07:20] <travail101> wlanctl-ng wlan0 lnxreq_ifstate ifstate=enable
[07:20] <travail101> wlanctl-ng wlan0 lnxreq_autojoin ssid=SMC authtype=opensystem
[07:20] <travail101> ifconfig wlan0 192.168.2.110 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.2.255
[07:20] <travail101> route add default gw 192.168.2.1
[07:20] <jdub> can you clag me one of the .desktop files?
[07:20] <Kamion> travail101: DHCP isn't really relevant, no static config either
[07:20] <Kamion> travail101: oh, ok, I'll try that
[07:21] <jon1012> (there is an issue in the last gnome vfs update I think... :-/)
[07:21] <travail101> Kamion, and of course, edit to your network... I don't know what the command line stuff is for setting a WEP key i haven't set WEP up yet on my network
[07:21] <Kamion> I don't believe in WEP; anyone who wants to drive up to my house and use my network is welcome to, and if they abuse it I can go out and beat them up
[07:21] <Kamion> :-)
[07:21] <jon1012> (since loading of an URI into a pixbuf using either gnomeui functions or program functions (in ghtumb or appliworks) doesn't work anymore)
[07:22] <Mithrandir> I tend to just block them in the router, but else same policy.  Works fine
[07:22] <Riddell> jdub: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/All-Good-People-1.jpg.desktop
[07:22] <jdub> Kamion: the cops would have a field day with that one
[07:22] <T-Bone> hey Mithrandir ! Wassup? :)
[07:22] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: dinner. :)
[07:22] <travail101> Kamion, that's very... humanitarian of you ;)
[07:23] <jdub> Riddell: thansk
[07:23] <travail101> share alike right
[07:23] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: damn ;)
[07:23] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: have a good one then :)
[07:23] <jdub> Riddell: are there any other attributes, such as background colour, whether to stretch or not, etc?
[07:23] <jdub> Riddell: a doc reference would be uber special
[07:23] <travail101> it's less dangerous on linux networks anyway, cuz the average dude driving by wouldn't be able to screw with anything on your system... they'd just be able to surf the web and download stuff
[07:24] <mdz> morning
[07:24] <Kamion> aha, there it goes
[07:24] <travail101> Kamion, working?
[07:24] <Kamion> jdub: ok, linux-wlan-ng works, just takes a bit of hacking
[07:24] <Kamion> needs better integration, but a wiki page would probably suffice for the time being
[07:25] <travail101> Kamion, I added those 4 lines to my startup script supposedly their own Scripts do all that work, but they don't work for me or I just don't know how to use them
[07:25] <mdz> aw, no slashdotting?
[07:25] <Kamion> travail101: no can do on a live cd ;)
[07:25] <sabdfl> hey mdz
[07:25] <zul> mdz: its not even on the main page
[07:25] <jdub> Riddell: also, does kde store the .desktop or the image as configuration?
[07:26] <Riddell> jdub: how do you mean?
[07:26] <travail101> Kamion, well no... a user-input script would work on a liveCD though, hotplug can load the drives, the script can tell it the IPs and turn on the device
[07:27] <travail101> Kamion, a script burried out of site in either the panel menu... or even loading a console
[07:27] <mdz> zul: it's not even on the linux page
[07:27] <jdub> Riddell: what does the configuration setting store, a reference to the .desktop file, or to the image?
[07:27] <travail101> and typing linux-wlan-ng-setup
[07:27] <Kamion> travail101: much, much better to make it automatically worked when plugged in
[07:27] <Riddell> jdub: oh, to the image
[07:27] <Kamion> s/worked/work/
[07:28] <Kamion> in this day and age there's no justification for writing a setup script but not going the extra mile and making it hotplugged
[07:28] <jdub> Riddell: weird! gnome does the same thing. kinda bongtastic.
[07:28] <travail101> Kamion, better yes... but you need to figure out DHCP for that
[07:28] <travail101> oh you mean making the setup script automatically start?
[07:28] <Riddell> jdub: I posted to xdg about a wallpaper standard but thos wasn't interested so it didn't go anywhere
[07:28] <Kamion> travail101: yes
[07:28] <travail101> not automatigically configure?
[07:29] <Kamion> travail101: DHCP really should not be remotely hard
[07:29] <Kamion> travail101: it's at a higher layer
[07:29] <travail101> ah, ok, well yes do that then
[07:29] <Kamion> there is no reason why static configuration should work and DHCP not
[07:29] <travail101> and when you get these little scripts done, email them to me so I can use them in my Gentoo
[07:29] <Kamion> I'd rather put them in Ubuntu :P
[07:29] <jdub> Riddell: hrm, can't find any info about extra attributes in google; know of any docs?
[07:29] <travail101> Kamion, can't you do both... Ubuntu, my inbox...
[07:30] <travail101> I want them in Ubuntu live also
[07:30] <Kamion> you can grab it from Ubuntu :)
[07:30] <travail101> but only so I can scrap knoppix
[07:30] <Kamion> I don't plan to do this particularly soon, I have many other things to do
[07:30] <Riddell> jdub: what sort of extra attributes?
[07:31] <jdub> Riddell: whether the image is stretched or centred, background colours, etc.
[07:31] <wasabi__> So what's the word on ifplug or similar?
[07:31] <Riddell> jdub: there are none, kcontrol takes a wild guess based on the image size but otherwise uses whatever the person tells it to
[07:31] <wasabi__> I had heard some rumblings of using that by defaul.t
[07:32] <travail101> Kamion, oh btw, the first two lines I would imagine would need to be done before try dhcp...
[07:32] <Kamion> wow, this USB stick gets hot when used as wireless
[07:32] <schweeb> wasabi__: I'm a fan of laptop-net myself
[07:32] <Kamion> travail101: yeah
[07:32] <wasabi__> And, as I sit here, waiting for my network interfaces to not configure, I am curious. ;)
[07:32] <mdz> Mithrandir: how are your torrents doing?
[07:32] <Kamion> travail101: but the linux-wlan-ng scripts already do those
[07:32] <travail101> Kamion, so have you tried DHCP yet?
[07:32] <travail101> Kamion, oh... mine dont...
[07:32] <travail101> but yes these wireless sticks do get hot
[07:32] <Kamion> I did, but I was a muppet and tried 'dhclient eth0' I think, which is obviously wrong
[07:32] <travail101> hahaha
[07:33] <travail101> good job
[07:33] <Kamion> and then shut down before thinking about it
[07:33] <jdub> Riddell: ok, thanks
[07:33] <Kamion> booting up the live CD again now
[07:33] <Mithrandir> mdz: unsure as I went home and forgot to screen them.  When I left about one hour ago, I was pushing ~1.5MB/sec
[07:34] <jdub> Riddell: what are the different ImageTypes?
[07:35] <Riddell> jdub: pixmap or scaleable
[07:35] <_d4vid> hi all
[07:35] <jdub> ala svg
[07:35] <Riddell> jdub: pixmap or scalaable
[07:35] <Riddell> scalable I seem to have spelt it
[07:36] <jdub> why the distinction?
[07:36] <Riddell> jdub: not everyone has librsvg support compiled in
[07:36] <jdub> ah, so it won't show scalable;
[07:36] <Riddell> jdub: if you don't have the support no
[07:36] <jdub> but shouldn't the backgrounds thingy sort that out by mimetype?
[07:36] <jdub> anyway
[07:36] <jdub> this looks good
[07:37] <jdub> i will do another -march package with the kde metadata
[07:37] <jdub> for you to test
[07:37] <Riddell> jdub: ubercool
[07:37] <schweeb> tseng: around?
[07:37] <tseng> yes
[07:37] <Kamion> oh, that -march, not the gcc option
[07:38] <schweeb> tseng: you pkg monodoc too?
[07:38] <tseng> sortof?
[07:38] <tseng> i take what the debian mono team gives me most of the time
[07:39] <T-Bone> elmo: bdale just uplaoded a new version of efibootmgr, I suppose you just need to sync it into Ubuntu, or do I need to upload it separately? It fixes a bug WRT EFI specs, fwiw
[07:39] <tseng> and lamont does magic voodoo to sideport it
[07:39] <schweeb> tseng: monodoc-browser needs some deps added... for the gtk and glade cil pkgs
[07:39] <travail101> maybe I should start making packages for other systems on my gentoo =P
[07:39] <tseng> is it fixed in debian?
[07:39] <tseng> do you have a fix?
[07:39] <tseng> etc.
[07:39] <jon1012> Just a proposal, would it be possible to make an human-like .gtkrc for gtk 1.x apps ?
[07:39] <travail101> Kamion, did it work with DHCP this time?
[07:40] <schweeb> tseng: I'll check debian... gimme a sec
[07:40] <tseng> thanks
[07:40] <lamont> tseng: what magic?  I should only have to do that to break the cyclical build-dep... which hopefully _GOES_AWAY_ once done the first time...
[07:40] <tseng> yeah
[07:40] <lamont> that is, if revision X can't build X+1, then it's a bug in X+1...
[07:40] <tseng> well, 1.1.x will be different
[07:41] <tseng> mcs + mono are one source package
[07:41] <lamont> that'll helpo
[07:41] <tseng> and it bootstraps itself
[07:41] <travail101> Kamion, do you have your wireless setup with DHCP on your system?
[07:41] <schweeb> tseng: nope, debian doesn't have those deps either
[07:41] <lamont> the issue comes in when someone adds a new feature to a language, and then immediately uses it in the source that builds the binary that understands the new feature...
[07:42] <schweeb> tseng: libgtk-cil libgtk2.0-cil libglade-cil libglade2.0-cil
[07:42] <dholbach> is there a possibility to kick a just uploaded package? i typed 0.1.4ubuntu1 instead of 0.1-4ubuntu1 *arg*
[07:43] <schweeb> unsure as to whether there's a diff between the libxxx and libxxx2.0
[07:43] <lamont> dholbach: ouch
[07:43] <lamont> and the answer is pretty much 'no'
[07:44] <schweeb> tseng: also, I'd recommend adding those as recommends or suggested on mono itself
[07:44] <tseng> mono suggests gtk-sharp?
[07:44] <tseng> not really..
[07:44] <jdub> Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/hoary/ubuntu-calendar-march_5.03_all.deb
[07:44] <mdz> T-Bone: if it's in Debian, it can be synched
[07:45] <schweeb> tseng: makes sense to me *shrug* most people who want mono will want gtk on ubuntu...
[07:45] <T-Bone> mdz: it's just been uploaded (eg 5' ago)
[07:45] <T-Bone> mdz: (in debian, that is)
[07:45] <Kamion> travail101: haven't quite checked yet
[07:45] <Kamion> travail101: I use DHCP everywhere
[07:45] <mdz> T-Bone: it can be synched once it's in the Debian archive
[07:45] <tseng> schweeb: meh, so does libc6 recommend gtk+? it doesnt follow
[07:45] <T-Bone> mdz: roger that. I'll poke around when that happens
[07:45] <schweeb> alright, fine then
[07:46] <lamont> T-Bone: and the sync is a request to elmo/jdub/mdz explaining why
[07:46] <lamont> s/request/email request/
[07:46] <mdz> since it's ia64-specific I wont't be picky
[07:46] <T-Bone> lamont: got it
[07:46] <elmo> dholbach: I removed it - but generally lamont is right, the answer is you can't
[07:46] <T-Bone> mdz: i hoped so :)
[07:46] <lamont> mdz: true enough
[07:46] <lamont> dholbach: you owe elmo dinner
[07:46] <dholbach> elmo: oh thank you very much
[07:46] <T-Bone> lol, at least :)
[07:46] <tseng> speaking of syncing, elmo could you please sync f-spot 0.0.10 at your convenience?
[07:46] <travail101> Kamion, hmm... I might be overlooking something very obvious, but i can't get the wlan-ng scripts to do anything usefull but load the driver, which hot plug does fine
[07:47] <elmo> tseng: done
[07:47] <tseng> thanks :)
[07:47] <seb128> elmo: poppler in NEW 
[07:48] <lamont> dholbach: to put it more accurately, if you can beg/plead before cron.hourly gets to it, and elmo has time, then he can remove it with very little pain.  The issue is that cron.hourly runs every 5 minutes, and that really means you have an average of 2.5 min to run in circles, screaming and shouting
[07:48] <elmo> seb128: yeah, I'm test-building all the stuff in NEW now
[07:48] <schweeb> tseng: but as far as I can tell, there's no virtual package that installs the commonly used -cils that mono is generally distributed with
[07:48] <lamont> once cron.hourly runs, it's much more annoying and painful
[07:48] <dholbach> lamont: that's what i thought
[07:48] <seb128> elmo: k, thanks
[07:48] <lamont> and risky
[07:48] <tseng> schweeb: they are a seperate package
[07:48] <dholbach> lamont: i already had a look for a new upstream 0.1.5 version or something :-)
[07:48] <tseng> why would there be a virtual, you need granular depends
[07:49] <Riddell> jdub: works good
[07:49] <tseng> I understand your bug, I will look at it
[07:49] <T-Bone> mdz: it has just hit unstable (efibootmgr): http://packages.qa.debian.org/e/efibootmgr/news/1.html
[07:49] <Riddell> jdub: going to do a new ubuntu-calendar package too?
[07:49] <lamont> dholbach: yeah, it's a bitch to have to go plead with upstream for a really illogical next-version number... :-)
[07:49] <tseng> as far as further changes schweeb.. not right now
[07:49] <T-Bone> mdz: err no
[07:49] <T-Bone> mdz: forget what i said
[07:49] <dholbach> lamont: hehe... :)
[07:49] <lamont> elmo: speaking of test builds..... it's past wed... :-)
[07:49] <dholbach> lamont: and this 1:<version>-stuff looks damn ugly too
[07:50] <lamont> dholbach: I loathe epocs
[07:50] <schweeb> tseng: consider this situation... someone has an app that says it requires glade sharp... do a search on "glade sharp" you get nothing
[07:50] <dholbach> lamont, elmo: learnt my lesson - thanks
[07:50] <dholbach> ok need to run to she shop... brb
[07:50] <schweeb> tseng: don't care if it makes hoary or not... just suggesting
[07:51] <tseng> its in apt-cache search libglade
[07:51] <schweeb> yes yes, I know that works
[07:52] <tseng> if someone is building packages, or from source, they should be sufficiently clued
[07:52] <tseng> or headed there fast
[07:52] <tseng> its not a normal ubuntu user use case
[07:52] <tseng> sorry, dont mean to argue at length about it im more interested in the real bug
[07:53] <schweeb> understood
[07:53] <jdub> Riddell: wasn't planning to upload these
[07:53] <tseng> hey thats probably it
[07:53] <tseng> Depends: for monodoc-browser doesnt roll in ${net:Depends}
[07:53] <jdub> Riddell: u-c is just a variation on the theme ;)
[07:53] <tseng> er, it does looking at wrong one
[07:54] <Kamion> travail101: DHCP works just fine, just do 'dhclient wlan0'
[07:55] <jdub> Riddell: actually, i will. in hoary only though.
[07:55] <travail101> Kamion, thanx
[07:55] <travail101> I'm gonna reboot at see if I can get this stuff to act the way I like it
[07:55] <mjg59> fabbione: Hello?
[07:56] <schweeb> tseng: I suppose I'll argue my point with you in about a month, after release...I think it'd be nice for those pkgs to at least include the name "sharp" somewhere in them, seeing as that's what most users will think to apt-cache search for, as it's the real name of the assembly
[07:56] <amu> Kamion: whats about suspend with the usb-wlan on ppc? it resumes also? 
[07:57] <elmo> mdz: okay to do seed syncage type stuff again?
[07:58] <mdz> elmo: yeah, what's pending?
[07:58] <mdz> gv was the only thing left the last time I looked
[07:58] <mdz> polypaudio is probably there now
[08:01] <mdz> jdub: do you have any post-preview uploads pending?  (e.g., the cursors thing)
[08:01] <jdub> yep
[08:02] <Kamion> ok, linux-wlan-ng works fine if I put this in /etc/network/interfaces:
[08:02] <Kamion> iface wlan0 inet dhcp
[08:02] <Kamion>         wireless_essid Heresy
[08:02] <elmo> polypaudio-clients                        | polypaudio                      | Supported seed 
[08:02] <Kamion>         wireless_mode managed
[08:02] <Kamion> and then 'ifup wlan0'
[08:03] <Kamion> I think we should put linux-wlan-ng in ship
[08:03] <pitti> Kamion: that really works now? last time I tried it didn't; cool
[08:03] <elmo> which is err, odd, since it's not
[08:03] <Kamion> amu: suspend-to-ram doesn't work on the test system; I'll try it on the powerbook later
[08:04] <amu> Kamion: thx, would be interessting
[08:05] <mroth> has preview been slashdotted yet?
[08:07] <T-Bone> elmo/mdz: efibootmgr 0.5.1-1 has hit the archive.
[08:08] <mdz> elmo: it's in kubuntu/supported, fixing
[08:08] <mdz> mroth: no
[08:09] <mroth> amazing
[08:09] <mdz> elmo: fixed
[08:09] <mroth> it'll be interesting to see how many downloads there are when it does
[08:10] <jdub> Riddell: same url, grab both of those u-c packages
[08:13] <mjg59> Gragh.
[08:13] <Riddell> jdub: works good
[08:13] <jdub> Riddell: cool
[08:15] <koke> mvo: I've just replied your mail
[08:15] <mvo> koke: thanks
[08:16] <koke> mvo: you can just look at http://www.amedias.org/~koke/arch/ for koke@amedias.org--2005/gnome-app-install--mainline--0.1
[08:16] <koke> I'm learning arch at last!! :)
[08:16] <mvo> koke: can I just merge from it ?
[08:16] <mvo> koke: ah, join the club of arch lovers ;) 
[08:16] <koke> I guess that :)
[08:17] <koke> base-0 is the same than Ross' branch, and there are three patches, which are the whole fix :)
[08:18] <koke> ubuntu-doc $ LC_ALL=C xml2po  -o foo.pot release-notes.xml
[08:18] <koke> Violacin de segmento
[08:18] <koke> This is very strange
[08:19] <koke> first, the error translated, and then a python script saying segmentation fault without a trace
[08:19] <koke> any python guru could give me some light?? :)
[08:19] <jdub> koke: are you using cvs g-d-u?
[08:19] <koke> jdub: yes
[08:19] <koke> it's the same with the hoary one or the cvs one
[08:19] <jdub> well, that's my troubleshooting help over ;)
[08:19] <koke> :D
[08:21] <koke> jdub: do you know the nick of Danilo egan at irc.gnome.org?
[08:23] <jdub> danilo usually, i think
[08:23] <koke> hmm, then he's not online :)
[08:25] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: I think you owe me beer.
[08:25] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: look at nekkid:~root/lib32gcc1*deb
[08:27] <HiddenWolf> ugh, pity we didn't get slashdotted
[08:28] <Mithrandir> mdz: uploading new ia32-libs which should fix ooo on ia64; sounds good?
[08:28] <Mithrandir> it shouldn't change anything on amd64
[08:28] <mdz> Mithrandir: sure
[08:29] <Kamion> hooray
[08:29] <Kamion> ooo-amd64 too?
[08:29] <mvo> koke: I merged your tree, thanks
[08:29] <koke> great :))
[08:29] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ooo-amd64 is already working.
[08:30] <Kamion> Mithrandir: needs ia64 added to Architecture though I thought?
[08:30] <Mithrandir> Kamion: already there.
[08:30] <mdz> ooo-amd64 is already building on ia64?
[08:30] <Mithrandir> mdz: ought to work fine now.
[08:30] <Kamion> +Architecture: amd64
[08:30] <Mithrandir> oh, sorry, I think I misunderstood
[08:30] <Kamion> not in the archive yet, anyway
[08:31] <Mithrandir> yeah, ooo-amd64 should build fine now, it just needs an upload with that fix.
[08:31] <T-Bone> w00t!!!
[08:31] <koke> are there any plans on a bazaar gui at this moment??
[08:31] <T-Bone> dpkg: error processing lib32gcc1_3.4.2-2ubuntu1_ia64.deb (--install):
[08:31] <T-Bone>  trying to overwrite `/lib/libgcc_s.so.1', which is also in package libgcc1
[08:31] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: same player shoot again? :)
[08:31] <mdz> koke: I don't thinnk so, but you can ask on #bazaar
[08:32] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: heh, seems like that has to go to lib32, then
[08:32] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: your call :)
[08:32] <Kamion> ~/wg 25
[08:32] <Kamion> oops
[08:37] <travail101> Kamion, thanx, i got it working now =D
[08:37] <Kamion> travail101: you missed a later comment from me
[08:37] <Kamion> 19:02 < Kamion> ok, linux-wlan-ng works fine if I put this in /etc/network/interfaces:
[08:37] <travail101> what was it?
[08:37] <Kamion> 19:02 < Kamion> iface wlan0 inet dhcp
[08:37] <Kamion> 19:02 < Kamion>         wireless_mode managed
[08:37] <Kamion> 19:02 < Kamion> and then 'ifup wlan0'
[08:38] <Kamion> you might have to set 'wireless_essid YOURESSID' too
[08:38] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: ok, lib32gcc1 installed fine now, want to test ooo?
[08:38] <travail101> hmm... I don't know where I would put that in a Gentoo system though, there is no /etc/network/
[08:38] <Kamion> but basically it all works with the standard ifupdown tools with a little nudging
[08:38] <Kamion> travail101: wouldn't work on Gentoo, that's a Debian-and-derivatives thing
[08:38] <travail101> so do you have the LiveCD autodetecting and running DHCP now?
[08:39] <Kamion> no because the package is not in the live CD
[08:39] <travail101> Kamion, there's got to be an equivilent I can do
[08:39] <Kamion> travail101: I neither know nor particularly care about Gentoo, sorry
[08:39] <lamont> travail101: and someone in #gentoo would be able to answer that
[08:39] <Kamion> I cannot help you
[08:39] <travail101> yeah, I'm already asking #gentoo
[08:40] <travail101> thanx for the info though
[08:42] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: Ctrl+G him :P
[08:42] <Mithrandir> I could boot his ia64 and see if he notices
[08:42] <Mithrandir> or just power it down
[08:42] <Treenaks> LOL
[08:42] <zul> Mithrandir: power it down he wont notice it :)
[08:43] <Treenaks> ping -f -b <broadcast address>
[08:43] <Treenaks> he'll notice that..
[08:43] <Mithrandir> his screensaver is running, though
[08:44] <zul> do it...give in to peer pressure 
[08:45] <Mithrandir> I'll rather just download and build ooo-amd64
[08:45] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: nice -n -20 debuild -S ?
[08:45] <Treenaks> uh
[08:45] <Treenaks> not -S of course
[08:45] <shaya> is http://archive.ubuntu.com down?
[08:45] <Treenaks> shaya: no, just busy
[08:46] <Mithrandir> I need to download the 213MB orig.tar.gz first
[08:46] <mvo> mdz: permission to upload quagga (postinst changed permissions) and zsh (tab-completion for makefiles) ?
[08:47] <elmo> shaya: use us.archive.ubuntu.com
[08:48] <shaya> that works
[08:51] <elmo> haggai: dude
[09:05] <sabdfl> mdz: around?
[09:07] <mako> mdz: it sounded like he was ready to collapse an hour or so ago
[09:07] <mako> sabdfl: ^^
[09:10] <mdz> mvo: yes, thanks
[09:12] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: sorry, i was playing guitar and training piano :)
[09:13] <mvo> mdz: is it ok to ask for more today? or should we rather do it tomorrow so that you can have a bit rest today?
[09:13] <mdz> mvo: I will be here for some time yet, feel free to ask about anything
[09:14] <sivang> jdub: yeah, naked people like you said :)
[09:14] <mvo> mdz: I would like to ask for the python-apt change. it's available for review on http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/review/python-apt/python-apt.diff
[09:15] <sivang> mdz: are we back to bug fix frenzy ? :-)
[09:15] <mdz> mvo: that's fine; feel free to do a release and send me info about merging it in arch
[09:15] <mvo> mdz: great thanks :)
[09:15] <T-Bone> wowowowow
[09:15] <mdz> sivang: we are being a bit cautious because a lot of people will be upgrading, but yes, we are fixing normal bugs again
[09:15] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: does it work?
[09:15] <T-Bone> all packages installed fine
[09:16] <T-Bone> lessee how it *works*
[09:17] <sivang> mdz: ok, good to know
[09:17] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: what's your favorite beer?? I'll make sure to pack a full pack of it ;)
[09:17] <sivang> T-Bone: wow
[09:17] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: it works?  Cool. :)
[09:18] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: I'll grab the sources, make sure it still works correctly on amd64 and upload
[09:18] <Treenaks> T-Bone: now type something :P
[09:18] <zul> crashy crashy
[09:18] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: cool! What about the ooffice package? It needs proper renaming i think
[09:18] <T-Bone> because apt-get ooffice-amd64 on an ia64 box ain't quite logical :)
[09:18] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: it's just the source package
[09:19] <T-Bone> true
[09:19] <HiddenWolf> T-bone: if you make it work, you get a cookie! :)
[09:19] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: it's a tad slow over your DSL
[09:19] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: so it's fine to let it named that way?
[09:19] <Mithrandir> yeah, should be just fine
[09:19] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: gotta be kidding?
[09:19] <Mithrandir> seems to work fine
[09:19] <Mithrandir> AA fonts and everything
[09:19] <Nafallo> I can't add backgrounds to the change background app. what should I file a bug/see if a bug is filled against?
[09:20] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: i see ~13kB/s outgoing, which is 20% of what that line can do...
[09:20] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: I've quit it now
[09:21] <Mithrandir> it's also that X over long-distance networks suck due to latency
[09:21] <T-Bone> lol, you tried to launch it remotely??:)
[09:21] <T-Bone> s/and/ood/
[09:21] <Mithrandir> yeah, worked just fine
[09:22] <Mithrandir> 'cept it was dog slow
[09:22] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: that's quite strange, i've been running remote XoverSSH from many machines on my network to the outside and it worked fine. Must be your link sucking :)
[09:22] <T-Bone> anyway
[09:23] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: so you upload ia32-libs, and I prepare something for ooffice-amd64?
[09:23] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: latency's usually the killer.
[09:23] <T-Bone> heh
[09:23] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: I wonder if OOO-amd64 should possibly be updated to the latest i386 version
[09:23] <T-Bone> i'm stuck to 30ms per DSL design
[09:24] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: no clue
[09:24] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: it's actually a freakin good news that it works
[09:24] <T-Bone> i'll roll up something asap so that kamion can sort out the seed stuff.
[09:24] <T-Bone> i'll check if it fixes the firefox locales bug as well
[09:25] <T-Bone> this is *just* awesome, you quite unblocked me :)
[09:25] <Mithrandir> 6762 could be fixed, I think.
[09:26] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: ok, i'll look in a short while. But first... Dinner! :)
[09:26] <T-Bone> brb
[09:28] <Nafallo> aha. my error seems to be #5266, never mind.
[09:37] <Seveas> HiddenWolf, serious? ;)
[09:40] <Treenaks> no way!
[09:41] <daniels> svenl: yes, xresprobe is worth fixing
[09:46] <HiddenWolf> it'd be amusing to keep stats on the server/bandwith load, and make em available somewhere. :)
[09:51] <T-Bone> sososo, let's look at this ooo-amd64-ia64 package, and this firefox issue
[09:51] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: still syncing down here
[09:52] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: ok np. I'm testing install language-support-en right now
[09:54] <T-Bone> hmm so firefox still segfaults anyway
[09:54] <T-Bone> sigh
[09:56] <sivang> development meeting is stil tommorow right?
[09:57] <zul> yes
[09:57] <Mithrandir> uhm?  When tomorrow?
[09:57] <zul> as far as i know
[09:58] <sivang> Mithrandir: yes
[09:58] <sivang> Mithrandir: 1700UTC
[09:58] <T-Bone> arg
[09:58] <sivang> Mithrandir: I was just making sure it's still the same time and date :)
[09:58] <Mithrandir> urf; URL?
[09:59] <sivang> Mithrandir: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=18122
[10:00] <Mithrandir> hm, ok
[10:00] <sivang> night all
[10:02] <T-Bone>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/locale-langpack/en_CA/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-panel-2.0.mo', which is also in package language-pack-en
[10:03] <elmo> iz dpkg bug
[10:03] <elmo> see ml
[10:04] <T-Bone> ah yes. I've too quick at reading, didn't notice the upload *just* happened
[10:04] <T-Bone> +been
[10:06] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: wanna handle new ooo-amd64 upload? Basically all i did was adding ia64 to target archs
[10:06] <Mithrandir> sure, I'll do that
[10:07] <T-Bone> awesome
[10:07] <mdz> Kamion: around?
[10:07] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: i suppose you might want to get these changes into Debian, assuming they apply... Or else, Ubuntu will be the only one having ooo working on ia64 ;)
[10:08] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: any ETA for new packages availability (so that I can mention that in my email)?
[10:09] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: I'm waiting for bdale to say _anything_ about my ia32-libs package.
[10:09] <T-Bone> ah
[10:09] <T-Bone> hmm
[10:09] <Mithrandir> I told him about it like four months ago
[10:09] <T-Bone> lemme poke him right now :)
[10:09] <Mithrandir> and asked if he wanted to take it.
[10:09] <Mithrandir> I could NMU if he prefers that
[10:10] <Mithrandir> I would prefer not to take over the package and comaintainership would be a bit silly, but I'm open to suggestions
[10:11] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: roger. Trying to get in touch with him, hold on
[10:12] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: otherwise, any ETA? Do you plan to upload today/tomorrow for instance?
[10:13] <T-Bone> (in ubuntu, that is)
[10:13] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: ia32-libs: today, ooo?  Tonight/morrow, I gues
[10:13] <Mithrandir> +s
[10:13] <T-Bone> awesome
[10:15] <T-Bone> so now, we have to kill that firefox bugs
[10:16] <T-Bone> trouble is, i haven't been able to reproduce on debian, though I could reproduce with debian debs on Ubuntu
[10:18] <zul> later
[10:19] <Kamion> mdz: yo. about to go out though, was writing very lengthy e-mail
[10:20] <mdz> Kamion: was going to ask you about that non-ascii-characters-in-fullname/username issue, since someone mentioned somethig similar in reference to preview, though I thought we had fixed it
[10:20] <mdz> Kamion: not urgent
[10:21] <Kamion> mdz: hm, could be that non-ASCII characters in the full name still break some things, I don't know
[10:21] <Kamion> mdz: people can still try to enter non-ASCII characters in the username; it's not presented to them by default in the installer, and the installer will reject it if they try
[10:22] <T-Bone> mdz: re 7155, looking at config help I see:
[10:22] <T-Bone>  If you are unsure how to answer this question, answer N.
[10:22] <mdz> Kamion: the report on u-d was very vague; I asked for clarification
[10:22] <T-Bone> CONFIG_SECURITY_NETWORK is a bool, can't be made module...
[10:23] <lamont> Kamion: wasn't it C!=UTF8 for at least part of the issue>
[10:23] <T-Bone> now it's true CONFIG_SECURITY is also recommended "No" as well
[10:23] <Kamion> lamont: installer *should* be C.UTF-8 ...
[10:23] <lamont> yeah, but post-boot?  what does getty get?
[10:23] <Kamion> lamont: except maybe it doesn't set a valid locale for second-stage stuff that's pulled back to the first stage, which may not help
[10:23] <Kamion> lamont: dunno, I thought it was whatever's in /etc/environment but could be wrong
[10:24] <lamont> yeah -dunno here either
[10:24] <Kamion> lamont: 'sudo ps axew' suggests getty doesn't get LANG or LC_*
[10:24] <lamont> and therefore ==C?
[10:25] <Kamion> yep
[10:25] <Kamion> but since non-ASCII characters in usernames are rejected ...
[10:25] <Kamion> I guess non-ASCII stuff in passwords might cause problems
[10:25] <lamont> anywhere that crosses the UTF-8/non-UTF-8 boundary is going to have issues, yes>?
[10:26] <Mithrandir> lamont: oh, the joy.
[10:28] <lamont> anyway, off to fetch the child from school, and hit the store for some CD-R media, etc.
[10:28] <lamont> back in about 1-2 hours or so
[10:36] <dholbach> is david sedeo in here?
[10:38] <Mithrandir> lamont: when you come back -- I have some ideas, possibly crackful, for util-linux.
[10:38] <Mithrandir> lamont: if you could prod me when you're around and have a little time, I'd appreciate.
[10:41] <sivang> ogra: how many mls are you subscribed to?
[10:41] <sivang> ogra: u-d hasn't seen so much emails since I think :)
[10:42] <ogra> sivang: u-d = 45, u-u = 50
[10:42] <Kamion> mdz: it sounds to me as if he's complaining that non-ASCII characters in usernames are rejected, to which I say "good, although we could possibly improve the documentation"
[10:42] <sivang> ogra: eh :)
[10:43] <ogra> sivang: but i'm also subscribed to a lot more non ubuntu stuff....
[10:43] <sivang> ogra: I see
[10:43] <GheRivero> res
[10:49] <ogra> did anyone recognize that dholbach uploaded more then 100 packages already ?
[10:49] <tseng> I did not
[10:49] <dholbach> *blush*
[10:49] <tseng> but in that case.
[10:49] <mvo> cheers to dholbach 
[10:49] <dholbach> woohoo :-)
[10:49] <ogra> called even
[10:53] <sivang> night all
[10:53] <dholbach> bye sivan!
[10:55] <ajmitch> good work, dholbach  :)
[10:55] <dholbach> thanks ajmitch :-)
[10:56] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: don't forget to close bugreports btw :)
[11:01] <GheRivero> hi! is anyone taking care of NFSv4  and kerberos stuff? which is the state of it?
[11:08] <T-Bone> thom: ?
[11:12] <T-Bone> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
[11:12] <T-Bone> [Switching to Thread 2305843009238620048 (LWP 19157)] 
[11:12] <T-Bone> 0x2000000000136001 in js_strlen () from /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/libmozjs.so
[11:12] <T-Bone> that's what causing the firefox segfault
[11:35] <tseng> pitti: busy?
[11:35] <pitti> tseng: just with real-life issues
[11:36] <pitti> tseng: what's up?
[11:36] <tseng> pitti: im brainstorming with a bunch of people on hardened ubuntu .. pax atm
[11:36] <tseng> and we're thinking that using softmode might make sense for ubuntu
[11:36] <tseng> are you familiar with it?
[11:37] <pitti> tseng: yes, I built the -hardened kernels :-)
[11:37] <tseng> heh I know
[11:37] <pitti> tseng: but I don't really like the softmode, it spoils all the fun :-)
[11:37] <tseng> I havent looked at their config admitedly
[11:37] <tseng> well, I like having a hardmode kernel available
[11:37] <tseng> but we could sanely give softmode to everyone
[11:37] <tseng> or a larger population
[11:37] <tseng> and start marking daemons noexec
[11:38] <tseng> also, using PT_GNU_STACK will give us compatiblity with ES if we are forced to replace PaX
[11:38] <mdz> elmo: still around?
[11:38] <tseng> and avoid binutils patching to get PT_PAX_FLAGS markings for paxctl
[11:39] <pitti> tseng: so far I avoided binutils patching, yes
[11:39] <tseng> chpax works.. but its a deprecated hack
[11:39] <pitti> tseng: instead I created a linux-hardened-support package which calls chpax every now and then
[11:39] <tseng> so proper support means PT_GNU_STACK or PT_PAX_FLAGS
[11:40] <pitti> tseng: i. e. at kernel installation and X installation
[11:40] <pitti> tseng: right, but binutils patching is too intrusive
[11:40] <tseng> I'll have to look at it
[11:40] <tseng> pitti: which is why im thinking of advocating pt_gnu
[11:40] <tseng> and marking in debian/rules
[11:40] <pitti> tseng: btw, right now there are no hardened kernels, I removed them because they have this hole
[11:40] <tseng> right, I noticed that
[11:41] <pitti> tseng: and I still did not find the way to produce 2.6.11 images
[11:41] <tseng> I have a 2.6.11 tree in gentoo, but yeah.. for ubuntu will be hoary+1
[11:42] <tseng> thanks for your vote, ill keep hasing things out
[11:42] <dilinger> tseng: what's your name?
[11:42] <tseng> dilinger: Brandon Hale
[11:42] <dilinger> ah, ok
[11:43] <dilinger> i was just curious if you were one of the gentoo people i worked w/ on 2.6.10-as stuff.  guess not.
[11:43] <tseng> was it Adam Mondl?
[11:43] <tseng> or Daniel Drake
[11:43] <dilinger> daniel drake
[11:44] <tseng> I was using -as in my patchset, but there was a recurring buglet with selinux build
[11:44] <tseng> do you recall the ipv6 socket fix?
[11:45] <tseng> selinux assumes socket has ipv6 bits
[11:45] <tseng> seems fixed in 2.6.11
[11:45] <dilinger> a few
[11:45] <dilinger> there were a lot of ipv6 fixes that i skimmed over 'cause they were rather large, and i'm not all that interested in ipv6 yet
[11:46] <dilinger> skimmed over and ignored, that is
[11:46] <tseng> would be nice if 2.6.x.y project was more agressive
[11:47] <tseng> at this point im tracking that, -as, and -ac
[11:47] <dilinger> i started 2.6.11-as last night
[11:47] <tseng> =/
[11:47] <dilinger> already 6 patches on top of 2.6.11.2
[11:47] <dilinger> i'm going to try and feed them to gregkh, and see what happens
[11:48] <tseng> -ac mentioned a missed secuirty patch.. and I have one more in gentoo that was never picked up
[11:48] <tseng> ill post and see if you are familiar with it
[11:48] <dilinger> i've briefly looked at -ac, but i'm trying to get 2.6.10 wrapped up, first
[11:49] <tseng> http://dev.gentoo.org/~tseng/kernel/1150_sunrpc-nfsacl.patch
[11:49] <tseng> summary is remote DoS in nfsacl
[11:51] <dilinger> hrm.  i hadn't see that
[11:51] <tseng> http://acl.bestbits.at/pipermail/acl-devel/2005-January/001816.html
[11:52] <tseng> stuff is still falling through the cracks =/
[11:52] <dilinger> alright, thanks.  any idea if -mm has it?
[11:52] <tseng> will look
[11:52] <tseng> nfsacl-return-enosys-for-rpc-programs-that-are-unavailable.patch
[11:52] <tseng>   nfsacl: Return -ENOSYS for RPC programs that are unavailable
[11:52] <dilinger> he's usually very receptive to patches; i find that to be the best way to get my stuff in
[11:53] <tseng> hm thats not it
[11:53] <dilinger> also, there's apparently a security@ address now, although i haven't used it yet
[11:53] <tseng> theres a bunch of nfsacl patches
[11:53] <tseng> none sound that promising
[11:55] <tseng> fom -ac:
[11:55] <tseng> Security
[11:55] <tseng> o	AF_ROSE security hole fix - still missing from base
[11:55] <tseng> o	Bridge failure to check kmalloc argument overflow
[11:55] <tseng> also, he doesnt document anything from vendor-sec
[11:58] <elmo> mdz: yes