svenldaniels: ok, tomorrow i will forward you a patch, i have been thinking about it and it should be trivial to fix, if minifind is smart enough.12:11
pittidoko: you don't like postinst scripts any more? :-)12:14
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ograpitti: at least he broke his naming scheme...there is grep in the list....without any zope prefix :)12:15
dokoI do hate debconf ...12:19
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pittigood night everybody12:28
ogranight pitti 12:29
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ndimHi. lifeless asked me to join.12:32
ndimI'm libexif upstream maintainer, number two on the "project admin" list on http://sourceforge.net/projects/libexif12:33
dholbachhi ndim 12:35
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lifelessso ndim was surprised that he hadn't heard about a recent security related update we did12:36
ndimYes, I was a little surprised that I had to read about the advisory in the regular news :-)12:36
lifelessand I don't know the details of the security-update-handling policy. I'm hoping someone can clarify what ndim should expect to happen ...12:36
lifelessas hes upstream.12:36
danielsgenerally, vulnerabilities are reported to the vendor-sec list, which is a collection of security teams from various vendors12:37
danielsvendor-sec then co-ordinates disclosure and everyone agrees on an embargo date, and CAN numbers are assigned12:37
danielssometimes they forget that upstream won't always be aware12:37
ndimOK, that happens.12:37
danielsin any case, we don't unilaterally issue security updates12:37
ndimWould you mind to Bcc the XXX-devel mailing list for future advisories?12:38
danielsfuture ubuntu advisories?12:38
ndimIf you're publishing the advisory anyway...12:38
daniels(i don't handle security for ubuntu)12:38
lifelessndim: so when the advisory is sent, copy to upstream ?12:38
ndimlifeless: Exactly. I know that coordinating on vendor-sec and stuff may get hectic, and getting the maintainer into the loop may be complicated/time consuming/whatever.12:39
lifelessthat sounds reasonable to me... daniels whats the right way to get this to be de rigeur ?12:40
ndimIdeally, the maintainer would be included in that process, but at least in the libexif case, coordinating on vendor-sec was the better decision.12:40
mdzndim: it's not always obvious where the advisory would be sent, and it would be a lot of work to collect contact addresses for the thousands of upstreams we have12:40
lifelessok, mdz's here...12:40
mdzndim: iirc, in the libexif case, it was a bug reported to our bugzilla12:41
mkpin general vendor-sec notifies the upstream maintainer if there's an obvious one12:41
=== lifeless passes de buck to mdz
ndimlifeless: Thx :-)12:41
mkpsending to a -devel list defeats the purpose of having vendor-sec closed12:41
ndimmkp: Right. I'm not complaining about not being included in the vendor-sec stage of the thing. That is a separate problem.12:41
mdzndim: we are going to do that work anyway, eventually, but we don't have the data yet12:41
mdzndim: once we do, it should be a straightforward matter to do what you want (allow you to subscribe to Ubuntu activity regarding your software)12:42
ndimmdz: Shouldn't you have the mail address in /usr/share/doc/PACKAGE/copyright ?12:42
mdzndim: no, there is no such requirement12:43
ndimmdz: OK.12:43
mdzndim: it's definitely true that in general, open source security process could use some improvement12:44
ndimmdz: I'm not trying to raise a stink, or anything.12:44
mdzndim: but it's a complex issue and will require time and effort to get to a point where things are happening the way that we all would like12:44
ndimmdz: If it is not too much work to get the right address, a Bcc of the advisory would be appreciated. That's all.12:45
mdzndim: you can tell Martin Pitt that, he releases our security advisories12:46
lifelessis there somewhere the address could be put, that we would generally look (even if its not mandated by policy) ?12:46
mdzndim: however, I think it would be a burden on him to try to keep track of the notification preferences for our upstreams12:46
mdzlifeless: yes, the copyright file12:46
mdzbut the information is often not there in the first place and becomes out of date12:46
lifelessand in fact the copyright file for libexif doesn't list the list.12:47
lifeless  Lutz Mller <urc8@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>12:47
lifeless  Curtis Galloway <curtisg@users.sourceforge.net>12:47
lifelessndim: are you either of those guys ?12:47
mdz--- [ndim]  ([U2FsdGVkX@helena.bawue.de) : Hans Ulrich Niedermann12:47
mdzapparently not12:48
mdzso even if we had a policy of checking the copyright file and notifying the upstream(s) listed there (which I'm sure would displease at least some upstreams), we wouldn't have found you this time :-/12:48
ndimNo, I'm not.12:48
mdzndim: at any rate, it would be much better to contact you _before_ we release the advisory12:49
ndimI'd have supposed that coordinating on vendor-sec, checking upstream for patches and stuff is so much work that finding out the -devel list wouldn't be much additional work. :-)12:49
mdzcoordinating with the huge number of distinct projects is one of the greatest challenges in working on a distribution12:49
ndimmdz: That assumes that the maintainer is as available as you guys are. But a lot of OS projects are maintained by people who may be away for a week or two, so I wouldn't count on that.12:50
mdzndim: it doesn't assume much; I think it would always be at least as good (and often better) to contact upstream earlier, so that they can be involved in reviewing the fixes12:50
mdzndim: are you sure that no one was contacted?  typically upstreams receive notification from _somebody_, even if there's no formal process involved12:51
mdzndim: perhaps one of the people listed above?12:51
mdzdoko: ping?12:53
ndimmdz: I'll have to ask Lutz whether he got something. Curtis is dead for all practical matters :-)12:53
ndimI'll submit a bug report regarding the copyright file.12:54
mdzdoko: can you do some investigation into the oo.o2 java issue for tomorrow's development meeting?12:54
mdzdoko: we will discuss there how we can get oo.o2 into good shape12:54
ograndim: you could also come around again and ask pitti yourself, he is here regulary during german office hours12:55
ndimmdz: Right, theoretically, coordinating with the upstream maintainer before publishing the advisor makes sense. Just don't count on upstream maintainers being available within a reasonable timeframe.12:55
ndimogra: Hehe. I'm in .de as well, I'll do that.12:55
ograndim: i know, saw your dns entry above, gruss aus der eifel ;)12:56
dokomdz: didn't realize about the dev-meeting tomorrow ... currently working on oo.o1, not .o2. I'm at Cebit tomorrow. I'll check now.12:57
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mdzndim: I've added some notes to the list to discuss at our next Ubuntu conference, we'll work on forging a formal process for working with upstreams on security issues and other bugs12:57
mdzdoko: I emailed -devel a week ago to announce it12:57
ndimmdz: Nice, thank you. Summarizing my point: Don't count on upstream devs reacting fast, but please Bcc them with the advisory when possible.12:59
dokook, I'll have to find an access point at Cebit :-)12:59
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dokomdz: I'll look at it now, I can talk to Chris tomorrow, he's in Hannover as well.01:01
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ndimogra: Bah. Flat boring countryside. Horrible. :-)01:07
ograndim: yup, but still, i'm born there and spent my first 25 years there......01:09
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daniels00:09 < The-Ghost|afk> "bash: sudu: command not found"  ????????????????????????????????????????????+01:10
ndimsudu? Sounds like science fiction character.01:10
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danielsThe one downside to this laptop is that the middle mouse button is right below the spacebar, so I accidentally twap it every now and then.01:10
ndimYou can adapt to that. Or rather, I have, at least.01:11
ogradaniels, i have something better here (bit older tho)01:12
ogra<ShadeofGrey> krism: sure! but the winner of the arstechnica distribution of the year award shouldnt require backups period01:12
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lamontMithrandir: moo01:23
jdubdoko: sweet baby jebus!01:23
jdubzope me harder!01:24
zenwhentomboy is broken01:24
tsengdefine broken01:24
schweebdaniels: the trackpad on my laptop occasionally loses sync, and middle click pastes for me... not to fun when I'm in IRC a lot01:25
zenwhenit wont start for me01:25
jdubi think zope killed doko :|01:25
zenwhenIt simply says All Done! and exits01:25
tsengwell then01:25
tsengyou need to a) add the applet, b) do --tray-icon01:25
tsengits been that way for months, actually01:26
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zenwhenI havent updated it for months01:27
ajmitchjdub: that many uploads has to do something to a person01:27
zenwhenits nice tho01:27
jdubajmitch: gnome hasn't killed seb128 yet ;)01:27
ajmitchtrue, but do you really think he's still the same?01:27
dholbachgood night everyone01:28
ajmitchbye dholbach 01:28
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tsenghi zul 02:19
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zulhey tseng02:20
enricojdub: if you're around, could you please add me to the moderators of the ubuntu-doc list?02:21
jdubadmin or moderator?02:21
enricoadmin even would be fine02:21
enricohornbeck said he would do it, but then I heard nothing02:22
ograwhy the hell is nautilus opening every svg in mozilla by default, grrrr02:22
jdubenrico: preferred email?02:24
enricojdub: enrico@enricozini.org02:24
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ndimmdz: If you're gathering package contact addresses... another place where to find a developer mail address in a source package is the third parameter of a new-syntax AC_INIT() statement in configure.{ac,in}. (This just sprang into my mind; it may prove useful somewhere.)02:44
danielsndim: that one's often neglected02:45
ndimdaniels: Maybe, but it's a simple place for a script to look for.02:51
danielsright, but a misleading address is even worse than none at all02:52
robertjthe new wallpaper is very progenyish...02:54
ndimdaniels: If you want to contact the maintainer before the bug goes public. If you're just looking for possible Bcc adresses to send the advisory to, that address should work well (if present).02:55
ndimWell, it was just an idea to think about.02:55
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ndimOtherwise... perhaps a standard like .lsm files contain adequated addresses, or a new standard for security management has to be created.02:57
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=== lamont thinks that tonight might be the night I pay for staying up too late last night
schweeblamont: all day every day is when I pay, heh... always tired03:47
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mdzrobertj: oh?  I haven't seen their background(s).  the Hoary preview background is an original creation, of course03:57
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zulmdz: the ubuntuhardened kernel stuff im reading in the wiki is going to be kept seperate from what we have now correct?04:46
robertjmdz: yeah, It's been a while, but i have a Progeny box around here somewhere and their logo was kinda bubbly and galaxy-like04:47
danielsthat's some serious rice there04:52
zula little busy04:53
zulthats a pretty old screenshot 04:54
zulgkrelm says kernel 2.6.104:54
lamontdaniels: heh04:54
mdzzul: I haven't given it much thought, but it probably makes most sense for it to live in universe as a separate package04:54
zulmdz: yeah since there is a linux-hardened already in universe04:55
mdzzul: oh, there is?  I didn't realize04:56
zulyeah i think pitti is maintaining it04:56
zulor trying to04:56
zulanyways im heading to bed...night folks05:01
lamontnight zul05:01
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mdzfabbione: morning06:33
fabbionehey mdz06:33
mdzfabbione: are you ready to start the hoary kernel bug review? :-)06:33
fabbionemdz: i am already doing it06:34
mdzoh, I did not see traffic from you on ubuntu-bugs06:35
fabbioneno because i am not writing in the bugs yet06:35
lifelessfabbione: did we end up putting fuse in the stock kernel ?06:48
lifelessfabbione: your patch worked perfectly.06:48
fabbioneno because fuse is an external package.06:48
fabbioneit's the external package that needs to be fixed06:48
fabbionenot the kernel :)06:49
fabbionefuse -> universe -> unsupported -> if i will ever have the time :-)06:49
lifelessfuse-source is external, but I think the module is in the morton tree these days06:54
lifelesscan I help?06:54
fabbionei dunno about -mm06:54
fabbionelifeless: just send me the patch again for the fuse source and i will upload it06:54
fabbionewe can't add stuff at 3 weeks from release06:55
lifelessheh. the one in your p.u.c site ?06:55
fabbionenot for hoary atleast06:55
fabbioneis it still there?06:55
fabbioneoh yeah06:55
fabbionei can do that :)06:55
lifelessit was that + a control tweak06:55
lifelessone second06:55
fabbionelifeless: yeah i know the control tweaks ;)06:56
fabbionemdz: do i have green light to upload fuse?06:56
lifelessyeah, just the kernel->linux in the .in06:56
fabbionemdz: it's a trivial bugfix06:56
crimsun(what version of fuse?)06:57
crimsunah, thanks06:57
lifelessmdz: it lets the bazaar-fuse module work :)06:58
fabbionelifeless: i can't find the .in file you are talking about07:00
lifelessmight be just control then07:01
lifelessI just grepped kernel-image in debian/07:01
fabbioneRecommends: dpkg-dev, kernel-package07:01
fabbioneis that in the modules/fuse ?07:02
fabbionefound it07:02
fabbionelifeless: it's up07:04
fabbionelet me know if it works07:05
mdzfabbione: fuse is in universe, sure07:06
mdzsleep now07:06
danielsmdz: g'night07:07
fabbionemdz: good night... btw please read the scroolback on u-k07:09
fabbionemdz: about that ABI check thingy07:09
dilingerabi check thingy?07:18
fabbionedilinger: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-kernel-2005-03-10.html07:19
fabbionedilinger: 04:45 ~07:19
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fabbionelifeless: Accepted fuse 1.3-1ubuntu1 07:37
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fabbionedaniels: did you ever get around to check xinerama & xv ?08:46
danielslet me try now, my amd64's been offline for a bit08:48
danielsoh, frig08:48
danielsnow I know why I didn't try it earlier08:48
danielsactually, no, I can play DVDs; nevermind08:48
fabbionei can reproduce it with anything i play08:49
fabbioneeven an evi08:49
fabbioneor mpeh08:49
danielsyeah, but I don't have codecs for that on amd6408:49
fabbionethey are all Horiz doubled08:49
danielsgotta dig out a DVD08:49
fabbioneif you want i have very old avi around08:50
fabbionethat shouldn't need any codec08:50
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fabbioneor at least the new ones08:50
fabbionecome on halley! FLY08:50
fabbionejdub: ?08:51
fabbionejdub: permission to upload new kernel08:51
jdubanything interesting beyond fixes discussed during preview meltdown?08:52
fabbioneyes.. 08:52
fabbionefaster build system, some fixes, new idiotify patch...08:53
jdubha ha08:53
=== jdub spanks fabbione
jdubfabbione: ok08:53
jdubhey amu08:53
fabbionejdub: ok thanks08:53
jdubamu: people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/hoary/08:53
jdubamu: grab the ubuntu-calendar packages there08:54
jdubamu: peek at the kde backgrounds dialogue ;)08:54
amuhey jdub 08:54
amujdub: lemme try :)08:54
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amujdub: looks good, you didnt got those cool dragons yet?09:05
jdubheh, no, just did it for the ubuntu calendars for now09:05
jdubnext step is to clean up the build system so we can use it for kubuntu and ubuntu calendars -> and more!09:05
amuAh it is linked to the x releated :)    09:09
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fabbionehey pitti09:11
jdubyo pitti 09:11
pittifabbione: now that the preview is done, time for some photos? :-)09:11
amuarg related even 09:11
pittifabbione: -> "galapagos preview"09:11
pittiHi amu09:11
amuhi pitti 09:12
fabbionepitti: MEH! you did send me enough pile of dildo's that i need to work on09:12
pittifabbione: but I already sorted, described, and named all the patches *sigh*09:13
fabbionepitti: they still need to be applied, compiled and tested....09:13
fabbioneanyway i am going out with 26 today to test other changes09:14
fabbioneall your stuff is for 2709:14
pittiah, there will be another kernel?09:14
fabbionepitti: 2 or 3 probably before final09:14
pittifabbione: I have an USB WLAN adapter here which uses an Atmel chipset, but is not recognized by default09:14
fabbionei did change some stuff in the build system that will allow us to build in less than 2384783743874837 hours09:14
pittifabbione: yesterday I managed to compile an external driver with a little patching09:14
pittifabbione: so today I wanted to try to write a little patch for the Ubuntu kernel to make it work09:15
pittifabbione: hey cool, how is this possible to build faster?09:15
Treenakspitti: optimize gcc ?09:15
pittiTreenaks: -O0 ?09:15
fabbionepitti: killing all the patch madness and actually forking the kernel build on SMP09:15
pitti"patch madness"?09:15
fabbionepitti: all the patch/unpatch at the beginning09:16
pittifabbione: I thought the main reason why it takes so long is that we build all modules for n platforms09:16
pittifabbione: hm, I never felt that the patching takes a considerable part of the build time09:16
fabbionewhen you have over 20 revisions.. it takes AGES09:16
pittifabbione: but if it's faster, so much the better :-)09:16
fabbionepitti: and the fork on SMP will solve the module problems09:16
fabbioneup to the point where we hit I/O bottleneck (ccache09:17
amusomeone knows about libsem-dev isnt it a hurd-only package?  09:27
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YokoZarHey, I need to get a package removed from Universe.  Who can do that?09:42
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amuYokoZar: elmo is the right guy for it09:46
YokoZarIs he around ever?09:47
YokoZarOr do I need to wake up way too early? ;)09:47
jdubYokoZar: he is on UK time, so should be around soonish09:48
amujust ask 09:48
jdubYokoZar: probably best to mail ubuntu-devel and cc elmo09:48
YokoZarThanks.  What's his email?09:49
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dholbachdoes anyone of you have trouble with his screen turning black after like 15 seconds (and no it's not the screensaver setting - they're reasonable)09:58
Treenakswhat kind of video chip?09:58
Treenaksthere you have it :)09:59
fabbioneyes i did09:59
fabbioneit's random09:59
fabbioneand i couldn't track it09:59
fabbione+ i am never away more than 10 secs09:59
dholbachseems to be the solution09:59
dholbachwork harder09:59
dholbachyesterday it didnt go black too :-)09:59
=== dholbach rocks
dholbachfabbione: i mean it's nice to have a system that's so worried about my monitor's state... but i have the feeling something was wrong10:00
amu;) 10:00
fabbioneit is wrong10:01
fabbionebut the solution is just to keep moving the mouse10:01
fabbionelook at the bright side10:01
fabbioneyour hand will be extremely trained10:01
fabbioneand it will stay warm10:01
fabbioneand due to no blank screen.. you can also get a very good amount of extra radiations10:01
fabbionein 20/30 minutes you will die of cancer10:02
fabbioneand you can blame somebody else10:02
torkeldholbach: I have seen it on my laptop too, with an ati chip10:02
dholbachfabbione: you're so funny :-)10:02
Treenaksdholbach: sit-down comedy10:03
fabbionethis song is so funny..10:03
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fabbioneDragostea Din Tea10:03
fabbioneit's in some weird lang10:04
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fabbioneand it seems to say:10:04
fabbioneNUMA WAY YEY10:04
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fabbionepunz punz... MORE NUMA WAY YEY10:04
dud-is there a  libapache-mod-php4 in hoary?10:04
pittidud-: only in universe10:04
pittidud-: we generally only support Apache 210:04
pittidud-: thus, libapache2-mod-php410:04
Treenaksfabbione: I almost didn't survive listening to that song last year!10:04
dud-I was sorta hoping I could still use apache1.310:05
fabbioneTreenaks: i just found it.. i am not a big fan of disco... not to listen to it at home at least10:05
dud-but I guess It's time to learn the apache2 config10:05
pittidud-: This old crack should die^W^W^W^Wit is generally deprecated :-)10:05
fabbionedud-: the config files are almost the same10:05
pittidud-: believe me, configuring the new apache2 packages is a _lot_ more fun10:06
fabbionedud-: and you won't have big problems migrating10:06
Treenaksfabbione: un-find it then.. it'll eat your brain10:06
dud-even with mod_ssl and all of that?10:06
pittidud-: syntax is the same, and not many keywords actually changed10:06
fabbioneTreenaks: it already did :-)10:06
fabbionedud-: yes10:06
jdubapache2 is love10:06
dud-I've been adding on to my apache1.3 conf for a few years10:06
fabbionedud-: trust me... go for a210:06
pittiapache2 is supported10:06
dud-sorta have a small attachent to it10:06
Treenaksdud-: sentimental attachment?10:07
dud-it's gonna be sad to see it go10:07
fabbionedud-: yeah so do I10:07
fabbionebut i am not sad...10:07
pittidud-: it doesn't "go", it advances :-)10:07
dud-that and my samba conf file10:07
dud-and I have me some samba questions too10:07
fabbionei am just tired of people reporting to me that a1.3 crashes with php10:07
quaruptwhen will hoary have beter AMD64 support?10:07
dud-but those can go in the other channel10:07
quaruptmaybe built in chroot?10:07
Treenaksfabbione: a2 crashes with php, too10:08
fabbioneTreenaks: whatever.. i don't maintain a2 :-)10:08
fabbioneeven if i think i am still listed as Uploader10:08
dud-I don't know how all the package manager stuff works, but a mt-daapd package would be awesome10:08
jdubdud-: perhaps add to the MOTU list on the wiki10:10
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dud-I'm new to ubuntu10:10
dud-I ran debian for about 8 years10:10
dud-just installed ubuntu 3 days ago10:10
jdubwhiprush: HAPPY BIRTHDAY WHIPPERS!10:11
dholbachwhiprush: WOOHOO! Happy Birthday!10:11
dholbachjdub: i dont quite know, what you where talking about... concerning the MOTU list?10:12
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quaruptwining in AMD64 sux10:12
jdubdholbach: adding suggestions to MOTU packages10:13
YokoZarquarupt: wining?10:13
quaruptguess i need to setup a chroot enviroment10:14
YokoZarWell, I'll work on the AMD64 Wine package as soon as I get an AMD64 computer, heh10:14
quaruptmaybe VM'n x86 hoary would be easier10:14
ajmitchjdub: thanks :)10:14
YokoZar(I make the Ubuntu packages at winehq.org)  But for now I hear that almost no one has gotten amd64 to work on Wine, so it's a longer term project, heh10:14
quaruptYokoZar, your on the wine dev team?10:15
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YokoZarYeah.  I'm the packager and documentation writer10:15
jordimorning mpt_london 10:15
quaruptright on10:15
YokoZarI'm also playing around with porting aps with winelib10:15
=== mvo [~egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
YokoZarOne of these days there will be an eMule package in Ubuntu10:15
YokoZarAnd it will run on ppc via winelib10:16
fabbionepitti: 6749.. why is it assigned to me? is Herbert aware of it?10:16
quarupthow about apps, that run standalone from wine, that woulkd be cool10:16
quaruptif it was possible i dunno10:16
quaruptsomeway to bind wine with the program, just so it runs as stand alone10:16
fabbionequarupt: please these topics are more for #ubuntu10:16
YokoZarIt's entirely possible, just no one's done it.  And you have to get them to compile with winelib to make them run on all arches10:16
quaruptor maybe for #wine10:16
YokoZarYeah I guess so.  Anyway the point is I'll be doing more wine package work later, and an amd64 version may come out in a way similar to the OpenOffice ones.10:17
dud-is there a quick way of removing apache from my rc.blah directories?10:17
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amudud-: update-rc.d10:18
dud-I'll read up on it10:18
quaruptSo how close are we to seeing Hoary final release?10:20
fabbione3 weeks more or less10:20
sivangmorning all10:21
dud-ok apache2 error, "Call to undefined function: mysql_pconnect()"10:21
thomthat's a php error10:21
quaruptwow, thats close, whats after Hoary, any plans?10:22
dholbachquarupt: world domination10:22
quaruptBut there are plans for another release after Hoary right?10:23
dholbachquarupt: it must be on the wiki somewhere10:23
mjg59Does Hoary have NTFS resize support in the installer?10:23
quaruptIs anyone doing more work on the installers, i know allot of users want more opions, in the installer, maybe a better package seletcion process?10:24
fabbionequarupt: most of these questions are documented in the wiki/FAQ. please check #ubuntu topix10:25
fabbionetopic even10:25
quaruptwhy cant i just ask in here? its dead anyways10:26
quaruptI like to talk to the developers10:26
quaruptand no theres nothing in wiki about adding more package selection in the installer10:27
quaruptLets not have a community like debian10:28
quaruptthis is the main reason i got away from debian, cause there community is full of grouchy guru's10:28
danielsquarupt: one of the problems, though, is that we all live on different timezones, and we're a relatively small team10:29
danielsso I rely on looking through the #ubuntu-devel scrollback while I've been asleep/eating/whatever to find out what's been going on that I need to know about10:29
quarupti think most are PST10:29
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danielsso keeping it as uncluttered as possible is good :)10:29
danielser, not really ... there's me on AEST, other people on UTC, CET, PST, EST, MST10:30
danielswe really do span every timezone10:30
quaruptso just increase your IRC clients scrollback buffer size to like 4GB10:30
danielsto the point where every development meeting, someone gets shafted because of the timezones (tonight it's my turn -- 4am)10:30
danielswell yeah, it's already two days, but the point is if I have to spend an hour reading the scrollback, it's just harder to get stuff done.  anyway, sleep time now.10:30
quaruptlol, dont worry, the community will grow10:31
dholbachgood night daniels 10:31
fabbionequarupt: all of us are also on #ubuntu. keep this chan uncluttered please10:32
quaruptif  this is the way it is to be, why not lock the chan and let only developers in?10:32
pittifabbione: I will handle #6749 with Herbert10:33
fabbionebecause we want people to be able to partecipate. but up to now you asked only questions that are already answered in wiki and FAQ. Also note that i kindly asked you to be on topic. I didn't say you have to shut up10:33
fabbionepitti: thanks10:34
quaruptand i kindly told you that the installer stuff wasnt on wiki10:34
fabbionequarupt: pkg selection is handled via ubuntu-devel mailing list -> seed management and developers approval. it's all on the wiki10:36
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quaruptNot future plans10:36
fabbioneyou can make future plans yourself and it will be evaluated :-)10:37
fabbionethe wiki is open to everybody10:37
fabbioneif you have ideas just stick them there10:37
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quaruptthe final release is 3 weeks away im sure they allready have decided, i was asking, what they decided10:40
thomquarupt: please look at the release schedule on the wiki; we've been in feature freeze for a *long* time, the next month is bug fixing only10:41
quaruptoh okay thanks10:41
torkelquarupt: I guess the guys are dead busy with hoary to be able to release it on time, so that they don't have much time thinking of future plans currently10:42
HiddenWolftorkel; dead on10:45
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pittiMorning sabdfl 10:45
sabdflmorning pitti & co10:46
mpt_londonGood morning jordi10:47
fabbionehey sabdfl 10:47
dud-one quick apache 2 upgrade question because the guys in #apache are dead, how would I fix this error" irtualHost _default_:443 -- mixing * ports and non-* ports with a NameVirtualHost address is not supported, proceeding with undefined results"10:48
thomyour NameVirtualHost line is "NameVirtualHost xxx.x.x.x" but you have "VirtualHost xxx.x.x.x:yy" lines, choose one form and stick with it10:49
HiddenWolfdud-: that's really #ubuntu stuff10:50
dud-I have a bad habbit of asking in the dev channels10:50
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dud-because the people in them actually know their stuff10:50
jordithat's abusing the -dev channel though :)10:51
dud-it won't happen agai10:52
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HiddenWolfdud-: I don't blaim you, I have the same tendency, but this is a busy time. stressed-out devs tend to be touchy. ;)10:55
haggaielmo: what's up?10:57
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sabdflhaggai: elmo's likely still en route to the data center10:58
sabdflhe says that machine is up and running for you guys10:58
m_tthewyou mean he ever leaves it?10:58
Treenakssabdfl: did the servers melt?10:58
sabdflTreenaks: no, the flock just needs constant care10:59
sabdflit's growing10:59
sabdflwe must be 40+ servers now10:59
dud-yeah, I understand HiddenWolf10:59
dud-with the freeze and all10:59
thomsabdfl: 5711:03
sabdfl57 channels and... 11:03
thom#57 servers, in the racks, and if one little server, should accidentally crash11:05
fabbionethom: since you have so many toys.. send me concordia :)11:06
thomfabbione: hah, no. you can have a dell :P11:07
fabbionesend me a dell :)11:07
fabbionei am cheap today11:08
Mithrandirhaggai: ooo2 has conflicting build-deps.11:09
pittiKamion: will it affect the installer in any way if I modify base-files?11:09
Mithrandirmy machine is still pushing about 1.3MB/sec and has pushed ~66GB of ISOs since yesterday11:09
sabdfl..there'll be thombot, bleeding, underneath the racks11:10
mjg59People have seen http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21724 ?11:10
Treenaksmjg59: Finally! I can run Gnome 2.10 on my deskto pat work...11:11
Treenaksmjg59: (have to run SuSE here)11:11
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Kamionpitti: in what way?11:11
Treenaksmjg59: it's not very special in other ways, is it?11:12
pittiKamion: #7449, I would like to kill the "staff" group for /usr/local11:12
thomsabdfl: *g*11:12
mjg59Treenaks: Well, Pavel's been talking about it having improved ACPI support11:12
pittiKamion: I already discussed this with mdz a while ago11:12
Kamionurgh, I find the staff group useful11:12
mjg59I think we've upped the stakes in that respect :)11:12
Kamionyeah, I know it's root-equivalent11:12
pittiKamion: indeed?11:12
pittiKamion: I mean, you indeed think it is useful? I never used it...11:13
Kamionbut I can see why you'd want to kill it, so don't let me stop you11:13
KamionI can always change it locally; it's /usr/local after all :)11:13
pittiKamion: oh, I always like to listen to your advice :-)11:13
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Kamionnah, I think you're right to change it by default11:13
pittiKamion: do you think we should leave staff by default?11:13
fabbionemjg59: when it works....11:14
KamionI don't see how it would affect the installer in any way11:14
pittiKamion: do you need any installer adaptions for a changed package?11:14
mjg59fabbione: Hah. Yes.11:14
Kamionpitti: only rarely11:14
=== fabbione kicks halley right in the middle of the CPU's
fabbionethom, elmo: any chance to get distcc working on the porting boxes?11:15
fabbioneperhaps combined with the buildds ?11:15
pittiKamion: What do you think about /home and /var/local?11:15
pittiKamion: I think the latter can stay as group staff, but maybe we should protect /home11:16
pittiKamion: although, over NFS you can already modify /home arbitrarily11:16
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Kamionpitti: I don't see a need to protect /home in that way11:16
pittiyes, right11:16
pittiKamion: the motivation for /usr/local is changing over NFS, AFAICS11:16
Kamionprograms should use the home directory in the password database rather than looking up /home/*11:16
pittiKamion: ("any user but root")11:16
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=== m_tthew blushes
sivangbon jour seb128 11:17
jordimr seb128 11:17
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pittiHi seb128 11:17
Kamionpitti: 'sudo chgrp staff /usr/local' is easy enough if that use case is in effect11:17
Kamionas long as we respect that change11:18
pittiKamion: hmm, I don't want to change existing installations anyway11:18
pittiKamion: just new installations11:18
pittiwe can't know whether an admin changed the permissions on purpose11:18
Kamionpitti: 'k11:25
Kamionseems sensible11:25
pittiKamion: btw, root:staff /home does not really make sense either11:25
pittiKamion: as group staff you cannot chmod/chown home directories11:26
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pittiKamion: so I'm inclined to change it to root:root for new installs, too11:27
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dholbachhai seb128!11:30
mvohey seb128 11:31
dholbachhai mvo!11:31
seb128hi everybody11:32
mvoseb128: has metacity changed recently? I have focus follow mouse with autoraise and it now send gksudo in the background when my mouse is over another window. this is anoying when it grabs my screen :)11:32
mvohey dholbach 11:32
pittihaggai: is there any chance to fix apt-proxy-import for hoary?11:33
seb128mvo: nop, the code is the same for some weeks11:34
seb128mvo: perhaps the new gksu does something different ? Can you try with 1.2.3 ?11:34
pittimvo: this "new windows pop up in the background" bug is actually very old, isn't it?11:35
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mvopitti: don't think so. at least it was fixed for a while. I haven't noticed it since a long time11:35
pittimvo: I mostly notice it with gaim11:36
thomi hate hotplugs freaking patch systme11:36
pittimvo: sometimes new windows appear at the front, sometimes I can't see them11:36
mvopitti: I think we are talking about different problems. gksudo comes up in the foreground and then goes to the background (because of autoraise). it really shouldn't :)11:36
pittimvo: oh, ok11:36
mvo'cause it graped my mouse :)11:36
mvothat's what I wanted to say, yes11:37
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seb128pitti: windows get on the top of screen if you have not used something else .. if you have clicked on an another window it considers that you are using it and doesn't stole the focus11:38
pittiI was afraid that it was a feature :-)11:39
haggaisabdfl: thanks11:39
haggaiMithrandir: ouch, must have changed recently11:40
mvoseb128: it looks like it's gksudos fault, I have a idea how to fix it, let's see ...11:40
haggaipitti: could be possible11:40
seb128mvo: k, feel free to close #7432 if you fix it :)11:41
fabbioneKamion: i have one problem with how kernel-wedge calculates modules dependencies11:41
fabbioneKamion: do you have time to help me?11:41
Mithrandirhaggai: e-d-s needs heimdal-kerberos, while kdelibs4-dev wants MIT kerberos11:41
seb128this discussion again ?11:41
thomseb128: for OOo this time11:42
Kamionpitti: yup11:42
mvoseb128: will do :) matt assigned me a similar one too11:42
Kamionpitti: makes sense11:42
Kamionfabbione: sure11:42
fabbioneKamion: cool. on ia64 there is the mbcache module that is shared between ext2 and ext3 udeb. The problem is that k-w copies it in both udebs and fails on find-dups11:43
Mithrandirseb128: I don't care which works, but if I'm going to look at how feasible it is to get ooo2 working, it would be nice if it actually was _possible_ to build it. :)11:43
fabbioneKamion: i did try adding a fs-common-mods11:43
fabbioneKamion: now it is copied to all 311:43
fabbioneKamion: how can i tell k-w that i want it only in fs-common and not in ext2/ext3?11:43
Kamionfabbione: make ext2 and ext3 depend on fs-common11:43
Kamionfabbione: see package-list11:44
fabbioneKamion: at this stage ext2 and ext3 are symlinks to what is in k-w11:44
fabbioneKamion: is that enough?11:44
Kamionyes, you can override their dependencies11:44
seb128Mithrandir: OOo uses both eds and kde ?11:44
Mithrandirseb128: ooo2 does, yes.11:44
Mithrandirooo2 will be _fun_ to get into testing in Debian11:44
Kamionfabbione: look at powerpc/package-list; basically the same theory11:44
Kamionfabbione: but look up what the dependencies of ext2-modules and ext3-modules are in kernel-wedge11:45
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seb128Mithrandir: I can try to switch eds and friends to mit krb today if you want11:46
AmaranthOOo using eds and KDE scares me11:46
Mithrandirseb128: yes please.11:47
Amaranthhey, do you guys make packages and install those when you are working on things or compile and make install?11:47
MithrandirAmaranth: it's probably just different GUI frontends and integration with the calendar and stuff11:47
fabbioneKamion: thanks.. checking11:48
=== Amaranth fires up ooo2 writer and waits
Amaranthand waits...11:48
Amaranthoh, i guess writer wouldn't use eds11:48
mvoping doko11:49
MithrandirAmaranth: I make packages for stuff I write myself, yes.11:49
Amaranthhrm, what part of OOo2 would need eds?11:49
AmaranthMithrandir: I mean if you're working on fixing a bug or something. Do you make the fix and create a package or just do a regular install?11:50
fabbioneKamion: thanks! that did it :-)11:50
seb128openoffice.org2-evolution needs eds I think11:51
fabbioneKamion: the Depends: in package-list is a full override or is it parsed to add extra depends?11:51
MithrandirAmaranth: I can't remember the last time I ran make install11:51
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Amaranthseb128: hehe, i'd hope so. but where in the OOo2 UI do you see calendaring?11:54
Amaranththe only thing i can think of would be a mail merge from your evolution contacts list11:54
MithrandirAmaranth: I was just guessing on why it would use e-d-s, I wasn't giving any authorative answer11:54
seb128 This package allows OpenOffice.org to access Evolution 2 address books.11:55
seb128from the description11:55
fabbioneKamion: n/m.. it's a full override :-)11:58
mjg59At the end of first stage install, the machine has hung rather than reboot11:58
Amaranthdid gtk2-engines-clearlooks get into the live cd?11:58
mjg59Anyone seen that before?11:58
fabbionemjg59: it must be an ACPI problem :)11:59
mjg59fabbione: Eez ACPI boog?11:59
fabbionemjg59: probably :)11:59
mjg59It probably is, too. Hrmph.11:59
mjg59Oh, I'm very impressed with the NTFS resize support12:00
jdubmjg59: yeah?12:00
mjg59It just works12:00
pittibtw, ISTR that I already saw "Hibernate computer" in the logout dialog, mostly at the live CD12:01
pittihowever, I don't see this on hoary/preview installs, any idea?12:01
pittithis is supposed to be swsups, right?12:01
pittiswsusp, even12:02
mjg59The logout dialog? There's no support for that to work, sadly12:02
pittimjg59: why does it appear at the live CD then?12:02
pittiseb128: ^ 12:02
mjg59pitti: Dunno12:02
pittihm, okay12:02
mjg59I've never actually booted the liveCD...12:03
mjg59Great name12:03
pittimjg59: nearly as descriptive as "foobar" :-)12:06
thomso, is there any valid reason why a desktop would want to hibernate?12:07
pittithom: yes, there is, but actually I'm talking about my laptop12:07
pittithom: usually I switch off my box before I go to bed, but with swsusp the boot could be much faster12:07
seb128pitti: hibernate and sleep are displayed according to the /usr/sbin/pmi query <action> value12:09
mjg59seb128: In the logout dialogue? Or in gdm?12:09
jdubthom: yeah, totally12:09
seb128the logout dialog ask the actions to gdm with gdmflexiserver12:09
jdubthom: i hibernate windows xp when i'm not using it12:10
jdubthom: and i'd love to hibernate and switch off at night12:10
Kamionfabbione: yep, full override12:11
mjg59seb128: Oh, you managed to make it work with flexiserver?12:11
mjg59Does it still cause a logout?12:11
Kamionfabbione: well, sort of :)12:11
seb128mjg59: yep, I've hacked gdm to add a new action that doesn't wait to get to the gdm screen12:11
Kamionfabbione: funny things happen with Provides and stuff12:11
pittimjg59: for me it causes ppc sleep, but of course no wakeup (doesn't work in iBook G4)12:11
jdubseb128: let me know what i need to add in the theme12:12
mjg59pitti: It does work on ibook G4s, it just doesn't work on /your/ one12:12
mjg59Which is a bit confusing12:12
mjg59pitti: Actually, could you file a bug about that?12:12
pittisure :-)12:12
pittimjg59: we already tried to debug this, is there anything I can include in the report?12:12
Kamionthom: my amd64 desktop is central heating for my room, as well as white noise generation12:13
seb128jdub: about what ? hibernate/sleep ?12:13
thomKamion: heh12:13
Kamionthom: in summer or when I actually want to sleep, hibernation would make a lot of sense12:13
jdubseb128: yeah12:13
mjg59pitti: dmesg, /proc/cpuinfo for now. There's a couple of things to test - can you remember if we tried with init=/bin/bash ?12:13
thomia64 does that here; i can sucessfully sleep with 5 machines on in my bedroom12:13
pittimjg59: I think we didn't; I'll do12:13
pittimjg59: we mostly tried to enable/disable frame buffer and such12:14
mjg59benh suggested it might be an AGP issue12:14
seb128jdub: need to have a look, I've hacked the action for gdmflexiserver for the moment. gdm has a suspend action, I need to hack a bit to get hibernate too, I'll let you know12:15
jdubseb128: cool, thanks12:15
seb128jdub: are you ok with a switch from heimdal-dev to libkrb5-dev for eds and friends now ?12:17
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pittimjg59: started with /bin/bash, but since pbbuttonsd isn't running, what was the command to put it to sleep?12:17
jdubseb128: that's a Q for mdz12:17
mjg59pitti: Ugh. Good question. Just start pbbuttonsd? :)12:17
seb128jdub: k12:17
mjg59You may need to mount /proc first12:17
mjg59Hm. The sensitivity on this synaptics pad seems a bit high.12:17
pitti/dev/pmu doesn't exist12:17
mjg59Ah. Heh.12:18
mjg59Start udev?12:18
mjg59(after mounting /sys)12:18
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dholbachhellas dredg 12:18
pittimjg59: no luck, udev's init script doesn't work (no /dev/null) and starting udevd and udevstart does not give any devices12:21
mjg59pitti: Bah.12:21
pittimjg59: /dev/ and /.dev are both empty12:21
mjg59pitti: Can you find the major/minor for pmu and create it manually?12:22
mjg59Ok. Clean preview install. Logout/hibernate suspended to disk and then resumed happily.12:22
mjg59The new background picture is quite nice12:22
mjg59Gah. Yes, the machine hangs when attempting reboot, but halts correctly.12:23
mjg59ACPI BOOG12:24
mjg59My christ, it boots fast.12:24
thommjg59: so my X40 will only suspend/resume once. then i have to reboot before it'll work again12:25
mjg59thom: Seriously? Argh.12:25
Mithrandirthom: how about hibernate?12:25
thomi'll try it again with a clean hoary install12:25
mjg59thom: Using vesafb?12:25
thomMithrandir: same deal12:25
mjg59Feck. It's probably AGP.12:25
Mithrandirthom: weird.  WFM.12:25
jdubKamion: what's your opinion on supportability of snort?12:25
mjg59I wonder why mine doesn't behave like that.12:25
mjg59HP nc6120. Installs fine, hibernates out of the box, does ACPI suspend/resume once it's enabled.12:26
mjg59This is unbelievably sweet.12:26
pittimjg59: hey, resuming works with init=/bin/bash12:26
mjg59pitti: Rock12:26
pittimjg59: YOU ROCK12:26
thommjg59: nice.12:26
mjg59Now figure out which module stops it working :)12:26
Keybukmjg59: yeah, I've heard the new HPs all "just work"12:27
pittimjg59: now I only have to find out what is stopping it12:27
pittiyeah :-)12:27
Keybukthat was when Istarted looking at the nc420012:27
thommjg59: pretty much default kernel arguments, acpi_sleep=s3_bios, elevator=cfq and that's it12:27
mjg59thom: lose acpi_sleep=s3_bios12:27
mjg59It's not needed with Hoary12:27
fabbioneKamion: no plan to use Provides at all12:27
thomwhen did that happen?12:28
mjg59When we started using vbetool12:28
thomah, arse12:28
mjg59This is all SO MUCH ROCK.12:28
mjg59Now I just need to figure out why reboot hangs.12:29
=== jdub cuddles mjg59
mjg59Volume hotkeys work after configuration12:30
mjg59Ah. Sod.12:32
Kamionjdub: I don't know anything about snort, sorry12:32
mjg59ACPI stops working after the first lidswitch press. No more interrupts.12:32
jdubBLACK MARK12:32
jdubanyone care to espouse opinions, good or bad, on snort?12:32
jdubwith regards to supportability :)12:32
elmoit's one of these packages with volatile data (i.e. the signatures) that need updating regularly12:33
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elmoand like ethereal it's security history isn't great12:33
=== sladen at last has a Real Internet Connection ...for the first time in two weeks
elmo(which is actually far worse, since it's a daemon, and ethereal is something you don't generally leave running indefinitely)12:34
sladenelmo: so, they want splitting;  one to capture and one to analyse---the second on which in turn relies on a package of signatures?12:35
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elmosladen: probably yea12:35
mjg59Damnit. Very broken ACPI.12:37
mjg59It's now firing off hundreds of interrupts a second.12:37
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fabbionedude... this is NOT stuff i want to hear from you at 3 weeks from release12:38
mjg59fabbione: It works fine on other machines, just not this one12:39
mjg59I'll try to track it down. It's an interrupt issue, by the looks of it.12:39
fabbionei don't think you are the only one with that specific machine....12:39
jdubelmo: thanks12:40
jdubelmo: would you lean towards yes or no?12:40
ajmitchelmo: sync gnue-common, gnue-appserver, gnue-forms please :)12:40
jdubajmitch: dude, you so love the weird tech ;)12:41
mjg59So, two issues: hang on reboot, problems with acpi interrupt12:41
ajmitchjdub: you know what it is? :)12:41
elmojdub: personally - no12:41
elmo[NOT Updating - Modified]  gnue-common_0.5.13-1ubuntu1 (vs 0.5.14-1)12:43
elmoajmitch: ok to override ?12:43
ajmitchI put the changes in 0.5.1412:43
elmoajmitch: all done12:44
ajmitchelmo: can you sync pnet, pnet-assemblies, pnetc too? :)12:45
ajmitchjdub: I seem to collect packages that nobody really wants..12:46
HiddenWolfDoes anyone have any idea why it could be that during boot the ....ok is printed on a new line for me?12:47
elmoajmitch: done12:50
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ograelmo: did crimsun already talk to you ? he seems to have problems with uploading12:53
thommjg59: still can only suspend once without acpi_sleep set12:53
elmoogra: hmm, don't think so - I got a msg from wasabi, but I assume that's someone else12:53
pittimjg59: okay, I debugged this a bit12:54
ograelmo: crimsun was approved fo uploading about 6 weeks ago, could you look if his account is set for uploading ? 12:54
pittimjg59: it works with single user mode, and I can even load the radeon module12:54
pittimjg59: but as soon as I start X, and the radeon module actualyl gets used, it doesn't resume correctly any more12:55
pittimjg59: so "radeon" really seems to be the culprit12:55
elmoogra: ok, will check in a bit12:55
ograelmo: great, thanks :)12:56
mjg59pitti: Ok, cool. So it's probably some DRI/AGP issue.12:57
mjg59Can you file a bug and I'll speak to benh about it?12:58
pittimjg59: sure, thanks12:58
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=== T-None is now known as T-Bone
pittimjg59: ROCK! I disabled the dri and glx modules from xorg.conf, and now it works01:02
pittimjg59: I don't need 3D on the laptop, so I can now actually use suspend01:03
=== pitti is happy
pittimjg59: I include this into the bug report01:03
pittimjg59: any graphic card-specific debug info I could include?01:03
mjg59pitti: Not really, what you have sounds great01:04
jdubajmitch: gnue? yeah :)01:05
Kamionwhoa, archive-copier bug just occurred to me01:08
KamionI bet that, on an installation from DVD, it will copy the entire contents of main onto the hard disk01:08
Kamionright, time to fake up an ubuntu-ship task I think01:08
Kamionoh, and archive-copier probably won't work properly on kubuntu, hmm01:09
thomKamion: OW01:09
YokoZarelmo: you here?01:10
YokoZarelmo: I sent out a mail to ubuntu-devel about removing winesetuptk, please do so :)01:11
dholbachseb128: fixed and uploaded gdesklets and drivel01:11
Keybuk*sigh* at bts01:18
Keybukthe worst thing is, I know Ubuntu's bugzilla is about to notice my severity change and spam me again with the same bug01:18
fabbioneelmo: are you still around?01:23
seb128dholbach: cool01:23
elmofabbione: yes01:24
elmoYokoZar: is it urgent?01:24
fabbioneelmo: mind to give a check to the buildds that are munging the kernel??01:25
fabbioneelmo: i did a few changes and i am kinda curious to see how they are going...01:25
fabbionespecially compiling with -j200 on buildd...01:25
elmoerr, seriously?01:26
fabbionegot you01:26
fabbioneno... only Ncup * 201:26
fabbioneNcpu's * 201:26
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pittifabbione: is inotify now enabled again by default?01:26
fabbionepitti: no01:26
fabbioneit still crashes on me01:26
fabbionewith one difference01:26
=== elmo buys the team a copy of "The boy who cried wolf"
fabbioneat the second unplug, instead of the first01:26
pittifabbione: just read about the new version on u-changes, that's why I'm asking01:26
fabbioneelmo: i didn01:27
fabbioneelmo: i didn't cry :-)01:27
fabbioneelmo: i am really curious01:27
elmoi386 is working01:27
mjg59fabbione: I've sorted the reboot problem01:28
fabbionemjg59: too late.. -26 is up 01:28
mjg59It's going to need a machine-specific dmi quirk01:28
elmoour powerpc buildds are running UP kernels, so they won't be affected01:28
elmoand our ia64 are single proc anyway01:28
fabbioneelmo: it will still go * 201:28
YokoZarelmo: urgent, no.  But it would be nice to take care of it before people start wondering why Wine is being difficult01:28
fabbioneelmo: it gains a lot on ccache if the code is cached already (as it should be)01:28
fabbionemjg59: /j #u-kernel01:29
fabbioneand pester the rest of the team there01:29
fabbionei am off for a few hours.. gotta rest a bit and do some hw shopping01:29
pittifabbione: new CD burner? :-)01:29
fabbioneelmo: thanks btw :-)01:29
jdubnice comments01:30
fabbionepitti: DVD burner.. i have a CD01:30
elmofabbione: are you explicitly calling ccache?01:30
pittifabbione: yes, that's what I meant01:30
pittifabbione: have fun, and good rest01:30
fabbioneelmo: no, but ccache is installed on all buildd01:30
elmojust wondering why I can see /usr/bin/ccache in the ps output01:30
elmomaybe it's an artificat of how lamont wraps gcc01:30
fabbioneelmo: because ccache is a wrapper to gcc?01:30
fabbionenah that's an extra one on top01:31
fabbioneyou never see ccache running01:31
fabbioneusr/bin/ccache is only for admin 01:31
fabbioneto check the status of the cache01:31
elmo/usr/bin/ccache /usr/bin/gcc-3.3.gcc-opt -mcpu=pentium4 -pipe -Wp,-MD,net/ax25/01:31
elmothe buildds beg to differ01:31
fabbionethat must be lamont artifact01:32
fabbionethe pure ccache is different01:32
mjg59Hoary, from power button to login prompt = 50 seconds01:33
mjg59(I hit enter at grub)01:33
thomthat's pretty respectable01:35
thomand then about double that to login?01:35
mjg59It's less than 50 seconds from login to desktop01:36
mjg59This is a 5200RPM disk01:36
thommjg59: so how do i debug why suspend only works once?01:37
mjg59thom: Disable DRI in your X config and see if that makes a difference01:39
amuelmo: please could you sync "blender"01:39
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thommjg59: already disabled01:44
mjg59thom: Really? Hrm.01:45
mjg59In what way does the resume fail?01:45
thommjg59: resume doesn't fail; it just doesn't suspend - the script runs, screen blanks wireless down etc etc, then 10 secs later it resumes to the desktop01:46
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mjg59thom: Ah, interesting. What does dmesg look like?01:46
elmo[NOT Updating - Modified]  blender_2.35-1ubuntu1 (vs 2.36-1)01:46
elmoamu: ok to override?01:46
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amuelmo: lemme check ... 01:47
T-Boneelmo: can you do as well for efibootmgr please?01:48
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elmot-bone: it's in main - did it get approved?01:49
T-Boneelmo: it's in main01:50
T-Boneelmo: mdz said he wouldn't be picky since it's ia64 only01:50
T-Bonei can send you a mail with the summary of the changes if you want01:51
elmoI don't care - I'm not part of the approval process, I just work here - all I need to know is that mdz/jdub approved it...01:51
amuelmo: yeah, let's try it01:52
thommjg59: interestingly, it appears to be mdnsresponder not stopping any time after the first suspend01:52
T-Boneelmo: Mar 10 19:46:16 <mdz>   since it's ia64-specific I wont't be picky01:53
T-Boneelmo: that's all i have01:53
elmoamu: err, what's that mean?  are the ubuntu changes merged or no longer relevant?01:53
jdubT-Bone: i'll approve it given mdz's almost approval there01:54
T-Bonejdub: thank you soooooo much ;)01:55
elmoefibootmgr |    0.5.0-1 |         hoary | source, i386, ia6401:55
elmoit's not actually ia64 only btw01:55
jdubelmo: only actively used on ia64 i thought01:55
elmojdub: if by actively you mean widely, then, yeah01:55
T-Bonei think that there are some high end x86 servers with EFI boot system01:56
elmothere is EFI for i386, is just not exactly common and people using it are either paid to do so or sicko sadists who shouldn't be pandered too01:56
elmo(hmm - maybe that day I spent fighting EFI left me somewhat bitter)01:56
T-Bonethat's quite a nice summary :)01:56
jdubelmo: so damage is pretty limited to ia64 ;)01:56
amuelmo: didnt check, should i upload *ubuntu* myself? and only ask you if there's no ubuntu in the name? 01:57
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torkelthom: does it works if you add mdnsresponder to STOP_SERVICES ???01:58
thomtorkel: yes, it works fine then01:59
thomi'm just bemused as to why it works fine the first time01:59
elmoamu: err.  deal is this: if you want to sync an unchanged package, ask me.  if you want to sync a changed package, check the differences.  if they're merged or no longer relevant and can be safely overwritten, ask me.  If they're still needed, you need to do a manual merge and upload the result. 01:59
pittiKamion: does the installer touch /etc/console-tools/config in any way?01:59
thomthat reminds me, i need to push ucf into acpi-support01:59
Kamionpitti: yes, localechooser prebaseconfig does02:01
pittiKamion: ah, that might be the reason for #658502:01
amuelmo: all right, i'll try it first, thx4info02:01
_d4vidhi all02:01
mjg59thom: Ah, right. So fix that :p02:01
Kamionpitti: dunno what the right answer is02:02
Kamionpitti: it's kind of necessary at the moment to get console fonts set right02:02
pittiKamion: yeah, no problem with this02:02
pittiKamion: it's just causing an upgrade dpkg question02:02
Kamionyeah, I realise that02:03
thomyeah, i'll add it to the list of default stop services02:03
pittiKamion: I always thought that dpkg wouldn't ask if the original file didn't change...02:03
Kamionpitti: I imagine that the version in the package has changed02:04
pittioh, indeed02:04
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=== pitti discovers that debdiff does _not_ display changed conffiles :-(
elmoyeah, debdiff's overly minimal02:04
elmoit needs a --no-really-show-me-everything option02:05
pittielmo: it should at least display _that_ the file changed02:05
pittiKamion: 02:05
elmoT-Bone: done02:05
pitti # Set the following - more euro-friendly default than kernel font.02:05
pitti-# SCREEN_FONT=latcyrheb=sun16.psf02:05
pitti+# SCREEN_FONT=latarcyrheb-sun16.psf02:05
pitti^ this is the only change02:05
Kamionright, my change in response to some bug02:05
pittiKamion: would it be okay to revert this comment, or do you need the comment?02:05
T-Boneelmo: thx!02:05
Kamioner I don't see how that would help02:05
Kamionyou can't keep that file static forever02:05
Kamionand the original was *wrong*02:06
pittiKamion: hmm, so apart from some ugly preinst hacks, this isn't going to change then02:06
Kamionthe change had nothing to do with correct operation of the installer or anything, it was just an incorrect comment02:06
Kamionpitti: one solution could fix it for the future, I guess02:07
Kamionpitti: make console-tools read another file as well as /etc/console-tools/config02:07
pitti/etc/console-tools/screen-font ?02:07
Kamionbut that would mean that users have to look in two files to work out their console configuration02:07
Kamionwhich sucks02:07
pittihmm, right02:07
Kamionucf would be an option ...02:07
Kamiona three-way merge should handle it fine02:07
pittithat's still interactive02:07
Kamioncan't ucf try a noninteractive three-way merge if the diffs don't overlap?02:08
pittidunno, so far I only used it in standard mode, where it asked02:08
pitticonsole-tools: important, ucf: optional02:09
Kamiondoesn't really matter for Ubuntu, and I can easily see ucf getting promoted in the future02:09
Kamionbut I don't really02:10
Kamionmaybe the separate-files approach is better; /etc/console-tools/config would have to be rewritten to reflect that02:10
pittiI don't see an ucf option to do a noninteractive merge02:10
pittiwhich would probably wrong anyway02:10
pitti*mumble* conffiles *mumble* die *mumble*02:11
pittiKamion: nontrivial then, I think about it, but rewriting console-tools might not make mdz happy...02:11
jdubpitti: just claim that you're derooting it ;)02:12
jdubrandom derootification02:12
Kamioncould preinst-hack it for hoary to avoid the upgrade problem02:12
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Kamionbut we'll need to fix it for hoary otherwise this will bite us again in breezy02:13
pittiKamion: we need to transition the screen font to the new conffile, right?02:13
Kamionyeah, it's all a bit non-trivial02:13
Kamionlet me ponder it02:13
pittiKamion: preinst: mv config -> config.dpkg_tmp, postinst: merge02:14
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pittibah, if anything goes wrong, you are doomed02:14
pittiKamion: I think if we modify the file in the scripts, it shouldn't be a conffile any more02:14
Kamionwe have to, for this upgrade alone02:14
KamionI think02:14
pittibesides, changing other package's conffiles is an RC bug by itself...02:15
Kamionor I suppose maybe if it weren't a conffile any more02:15
Kamionthere wouldn't be a problem02:15
KamionI think localechooser is probably wrong here, but at the moment it has no other option so Debian isn't going to fix it before sarge02:15
pittiI don't want to change localechooser for Hoary02:16
Kamionwe might have to02:16
Kamionanyway, I need lunch ...02:16
pittiKamion: we can change conffile -> config file, and not touch an existing one; but copying a template if it isn't present02:17
pittiKamion: so, without ucf02:17
HiddenWolfkamion: will sarge ever be out?02:17
pittilunch... good idea indeed :-)02:17
KamionHiddenWolf: yes, following the release meeting in Vancouver stuff is looking a lot better02:19
Kamionpitti: conffile -> config file is seeming like the sanest approach to me02:19
pittime too, without ucf02:21
pittiKamion: if we really have to change something nontrivial to the default conffile, we can always handle this more forcefully02:21
elmofabbione: I don't think that was such a good plan02:21
elmoBuild needed 01:05:48, 1425648k disk space02:22
pittiKamion: okay, I prepare a patch, and ask for review02:22
elmoBuild needed 00:38:47, 1428100k disk space02:22
elmofirst is -26, second is -25.2 .  on amd64, same buildd host02:22
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lamontif you link ccache to say /usr/local/bin/gcc, then you don't see it, you see /usr/local/bin/gcc.02:36
lamontwe run things as /usr/bin/ccache gcc ...02:36
lamontso you do02:36
elmoI just export PATH=/usr/lib/ccache:$PATH02:37
lamontyeah, that's not what gcc-opt does..02:37
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dholbachhellas jani!02:37
janihi dholbach02:38
janinice progress on dehowlification :)02:38
dholbachYES :-)02:39
dholbachjani: how are you?02:39
janibusy at work :(02:39
=== tseng dumps water on dholbach like a boxing champ
=== dholbach comforts jani
janihope tonight this weekend will have some time for motuwork02:39
=== dholbach thanks tseng :-)
jdubdholbach: was chatting to murrayc earlier, he's very grateful for your work on updating *mm02:39
dholbachjanc: woohoo02:39
Mithrandirlamont: moo.  Got a bit of time for util-linux evilness discussions?02:40
dholbachjdub: thanks... just hope i get libxml++ and glom in soon02:40
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lamontMithrandir: I have exactly 5 minutes before I run out the door to take kids to school.  couple hours from now would be better...02:40
janihas the after preview meeting already happened?02:40
Mithrandirlamont: sure, ping me when you're back?02:41
dholbachjani: 17:00 utc02:41
lamontMithrandir: sure02:41
lamontshould certainly be before the meeting02:42
janiit's not in the meeting channel 'headline' :)02:42
=== Mithrandir thinks we should _really_ have ical feed of when meetings are scheduled.
jdubjamesh is working on stuff for that02:43
HiddenWolfutc is which timezone?02:43
jdubit will be rad02:43
jdubHiddenWolf: utc is utc :)02:43
=== lamont wonders what #ub is :-) I think we maxxed the topic in #u-m...
HiddenWolfjdub: gmt +/- ? hours?02:43
Mithrandirjdub: apt-get install schoolbell? :)02:43
lamontHiddenWolf: TZ=UTC date02:43
jdubMithrandir: mmm, but with launchpad integration foo02:44
jdubHiddenWolf: UTC is a timezone definition02:45
jdubit is arguably == GMT02:45
jameshUTC has a different definition to GMT02:46
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jameshrelated to leap seconds, etc02:46
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mjg59thom: I'm getting about 10 seconds from login to desktop02:50
mjg59So if I switched on autologin, I bet we could do power-on to desktop in a minute02:50
=== lamont takes kids to school
dholbachmjg59: wow02:52
mjg59Grah. The 6100 series suspends and resumes fine, the 6200 series doesn't02:57
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jdubmjg59: autologin might be doable for next release02:58
jdubmjg59: with some gdm changes i'm planning02:58
jdub(interaction stuff, i know gdm supports it)02:59
Amaranthshared-mime-info (0.15cvs20050310-0ubuntu1) <--yikes02:59
Amarantha little recent, isn't it?02:59
mjg59On the bright side, I now have a machine with failing ACPI *and* a serial port03:00
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dholbachhai zul03:03
zulhey dholbach 03:03
mjg59Oh yes03:05
mjg5960 seconds from power button to desktop03:05
zulmjg59: got any idea about #7438?03:06
dholbachsee you later03:06
mjg59zul: Oh, argh. Almost certainly unserviced interrupt issues.03:07
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zulmjg59: ok ill ask him for his /proc/interrupts then03:07
mjg59Yeah. Ask him for /proc/interrupts from Fedora, too.03:08
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zulmjg59: done03:09
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KinnisonHi guys03:11
pittiHi Kinnison 03:11
=== Kinnison just did a warty -> hoary upgrade and it was (while slow) absolutely fine
Kinnisona few too many conffile questions; but I think that's due to my fiddling03:12
KinnisonMy only concern was that after a reboot, evolution popped up a "thank you for downloading this evaluation release" box03:12
Kinnisonwhich seems a wee bit silly03:12
seb128_anybody has an idea of why I get this in poppler build logs "libtool: ignoring unknown tag CXX" ?03:12
seb128_and not in a pbuilder or my box03:12
pittiKinnison: re conffile questions, I collected them in https://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741603:12
pittiKinnison: if you found anything else, please create a new bug and make it block #741603:13
Kinnisonpitti: I'll look through03:13
=== Kinnison sits and crys as firefox loses all its config :-(
pittidoes it?03:13
Kinnisonwell, it disables all my shiny useful plugins :-(03:14
pittiseb128: indeed, do you think this evo dialog can be silenced?03:14
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seb128what dialog ?03:14
seb128Keybuk: around ?03:16
Kinnisonseb128: in apps/evolution/shell/ unset skip_warning and restart evo03:17
seb128this should not be set in a stable version03:18
seb128is it ?03:18
mjg59PCMCIA startup is hanging this machine.03:20
mjg59Oh, arse, no. That's not hte problem.03:21
mjg59It gets to Starting Postfix and then hangs03:21
mjg59Disabling dbus startup stops it hanging, so I blame HAL03:23
seb128anybody with some libtool knowledge around who know why http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/p/poppler/0.1.2-0ubuntu1/poppler_0.1.2-0ubuntu1_20050310-1911-i386-successful has a bunch of "libtool: ignoring unknown tag CXX"03:23
seb128works fine in a pbuilder03:23
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pittielmo: can I please have aalib1-dev and slang1-dev in concordia's hoary-i386 dchroot?03:34
Mithrandirseb128: any progress on mit-kerberising e-d-s? :)03:35
Keybukseb128: yo03:35
Keybukseb128: does that after libtoolzeing?03:36
seb128Keybuk: nop, the package is not relibtoolized03:37
seb128standard ./configure && make03:37
seb128works fine on my box and in a pbuilder, and make that on the pbuilder03:38
Keybukg++ installed on the system?03:38
Keybukwith build-depend ?03:38
Keybukno idea then03:38
seb128that ftbfs evince :/03:38
Keybukgot a copy of the generated libtool script?03:39
=== smurfix [~smurf@run.smurf.noris.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybukweird :)03:39
seb128Mithrandir: seems to work fine here, need to ping mdz before uploading03:40
Mithrandirseb128: ok, thanks03:40
=== Kamion gets hold of a copy of the notorious Linux Magazine cover DVD
zulis dvd borked or what i didnt read the whole thread03:46
=== [m0rph] [~morph@p83.129.179.106.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionthey took a random development snapshot without telling us03:46
KamionI'd like to know what it is :)03:46
Kamionhmm, crap, my only DVD reader is in the Pegasos03:46
zulheh...the cd copy i got from them was hosed too 03:46
Kamionmarginally unuseful for testing an i386 DVD03:47
seb128Keybuk: hum, the buildd log has no "checking how to run the C++ preprocessor... g++ -E"03:48
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=== rubenv [~lambda1@kotnet-148.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128lamont: here ?03:54
Kamionah, Pegasos in "working better when plugged in" shocker03:58
zulah...i wouldnt let svenl hear you03:59
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elmopitti: done04:01
seb128mdz: around ?04:02
Kamionthe Linux Magazine DVD has kernel ABI 2.6.10-204:02
zuli think someone should write a letter to the editor04:02
Kamionit's the 20050129 DVD build04:03
Kamionwhich is between Array CDs 3 and 404:04
elmodid they call it hoary?04:05
=== mpt_london [~mpt@host217-37-231-22.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
tsengseb128: heya, im testing some fixes for gstreamer04:05
tsengseb128: theres a buglet with mp3s with playbin04:06
Kamionelmo: it's labelled 'Ubuntu 5.04' and '"Hoary Hedgehog" Development Edition'04:06
seb128tseng: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7359 ?04:06
tsengseb128: sounds like it04:07
Kamionthe blurb inside says 'Ubuntu Linux is a stylish distribution built from Debian and polished for the corporate user. This month's DVD brings you a special pre-release of the upcoming Ubuntu Linux 5.04, which Ubuntu has dubbed the "Hoary Hedgehog" release.'04:07
seb128tseng: rock, thanks04:07
=== pitti [~pitti@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
elmobah, that sucks04:07
seb128tseng: bug flood, not easy to track every single one, thanks for looking on it :)04:07
seb128tseng: do you have an upstream pointer for it ?04:08
tsengyes I do04:08
tsengposting now04:08
tsengand rolling my source package as we speak04:08
Kamionamusingly, they claim Kickstart support; I didn't upload the first piece of that until 4 February04:08
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pittielmo: can I please have xlibs-dev python-gtk2-dev libexif-dev in hoary-i386 (concordia)?04:08
lamontseb128: which buildd?04:09
zulmjg59: http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/3/11/9604:09
seb128lamont: poppler build is weird, any way to get the config.log ?04:09
elmopitti: they're all installed04:09
pittielmo: thanks, worls now04:09
pittiworks, even04:09
elmopitti: I was just dist-upgrading, that porbbaly confused things04:09
=== lamont goes to lokk
pittiah, that probably was it04:09
elmolamont: <random> we should save config.logs from builds</>04:09
seb128lamont: it throws "libtool: ignoring unknown tag CXX" messages and the configure has no "checking how to run the C++ preprocessor... g++ -E"04:10
lamontseb128: build was successful... so no.04:11
seb128lamont: evince ftbfs due to that04:11
seb128lamont: any idea on what could be wrong ?04:12
lamontelmo: saving config.log... yeah, bob should do that - I'll add it to my list for Kinnison 04:12
=== mark_ramm [~mark@humantech.synergydsl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sivangis a.u.c having bandwidth issues?04:13
sivang(trying to download a source pkg and no go)04:13
elmoit's apache is just slow04:13
elmouse a mirror04:13
sivangelmo: ok, I'll try a mirror04:13
sivangelmo: thx04:13
seb128lamont: any idea on how to debug that ?04:14
sivangpitti: how is the germen mirror, up to date?04:15
pittisivang: should be pretty good04:15
pittiarchive.u.c sucks ATM04:15
sivangpitti: ok, I'm switching to it :) I also always used the germne one when I Was using sid :)04:15
elmode.archive.u.c exists and is a good mirror04:16
lamontrsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [receiver] 04:16
=== lamont grumbles
lamontelmo: and yeah, I know - it's on my end04:16
=== Nafallo [~nafallo@h211n1c1o1027.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sivangpitti: no security there?   Could not resolve de.security.ubuntu.com04:17
pittisivang: they have security there04:18
pitti-> warty-security, hoary-security04:18
sivangpitti: k, thx04:18
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sivangpitti: sweat! :)04:19
sivangpitti: works perfectly :)04:19
pittiwhy sweat? does it suck as well?04:19
pittihmm, s/sweat/sweet/ then?04:19
sivangpitti: oops :)04:20
sivangpitti: sweet04:20
=== pitti fixes the n-th package to not ask dpkg conffile question and curses at dpkg not removing conffiles on upgrades
pittiKeybuk: ^ any chance that this madness will eventually be fixed in the future?04:30
Keybuknot in the immediate future04:30
Keybukbecause of why dpkg does it04:31
pittino, long-term04:31
Keybukit's in the same class as why dpkg won't replace dirs with symlinks and vice-versa04:31
Keybukmaybe when there's richer metadata on installed files04:31
pittiKeybuk: but what should be wrong with deleting an unchanged conffile if the newer package version does not ship it any more?04:33
pittiKeybuk: is there an use case why this should not happen?04:33
tsengwhy doesnt apt cache sources =/04:33
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
wasabi_what's that mean? cache sources?04:34
wasabi_oh you mean for apt-get source don't ya04:34
wasabi_yeah it'd be neat. ;)04:34
enricoHello.  Someone knows how to insert the "}}}" string inside a MoinMoin verbatim environment (the one between {{{ and }}}) ?04:35
Keybukpitti: they are dude, it's called purge04:35
Kamionenrico: try }``}}04:35
pittiKeybuk: I mean on package upgrade, not purge04:35
Kamionenrico: I think that should work, might not though04:35
pittiKeybuk: upgrading is what I'm fixing04:35
enricoKamion: it shows }''}}04:35
enricoan, no, backquote04:35
Keybukdunno if there's any particular technical reason for that04:36
enricoIt shows }``}}04:36
=== koke [~koke@rm-001-26.serve.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
enricoKamion: it doesn't work forme04:36
jdubnight guys04:37
enricojdub: night04:37
jdubsent apologies for meeting04:37
jdubjust... can't... keep... eyelids... open...04:37
Keybukit'd take about 1s to fix04:37
Keybuk  /* All the old conffiles are marked with a flag, so that we don't delete04:37
Keybuk   * them if they seem to disappear completely.04:37
Keybuk   */04:37
Keybuk  oldconffsetflags(pkg->installed.conffiles);04:37
Keybuk  for (i = 0 ; i < cflict_index ; i++) {04:37
Keybuk    oldconffsetflags(conflictor[i] ->installed.conffiles);04:37
Keybuk  }04:37
Keybukdelete that code04:37
Keybukbut I don't want to do that without learning why it's there in the first place04:38
pittiyeah, sure04:38
pittithat's why I wonder whether there is an use case for it04:38
jbaileyKamion: I was just about to send you a patch for the resume partition stuff when I saw that you had done it.  Ah well, serves me right for not filing a bug to track.04:38
MithrandirKeybuk: transition from conffile to non-conffile, possibly?04:38
pittiKeybuk: the code does not look like a bug, but like purpose04:38
Keybukthe best thing would probably be to ask iwj04:39
pittiMithrandir: hm, good point04:39
jbaileyKamion: Does the installer allow you to setup swapfiles?  If yes, this will be broken and I'll send mine along anyway.04:39
KeybukMithrandir: nah, cause then it'd get owned by the new package anyway04:39
pittiMithrandir: but a package should install its version anyway if the config file does not exist04:39
=== pitti only talks about removing _unchanged_ conffiles
KamionKeybuk: reason: administrator might have looked at it, gone "oh yeah, I like that, no changes necessary"04:39
Kamionjbailey: sorry, yeah, did that in a hurry just before preview, you weren't around at the time04:40
pittiKamion: but if the new package does not need the conffile any more (mostly it was moved to another package), why should it be kept?04:40
Kamionjbailey: I don't know of any way to set up swapfiles in partman, but you could set them up by hand04:40
Kamionpitti: dpkg doesn't know that04:40
KamionKeybuk: it wouldn't get owned by the new package if it was a transition from conffile to non-conffile configuration file04:41
pittiKamion: why not? in the preinst upgrade phase it should knwo04:41
Kamionnot without dpkg-registerfile or whatever04:41
Kamionpitti: it doesn't know what the packager intended; it might be "I want to manage this as a non-conffile configuration file now" or it might be "I want this file to go away"04:42
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KeybukKamion: yeah, that certainly wouldn't work04:42
pittiKamion: what would be wrong with deleting the conffile if the new version wants to handle it as a config file?04:42
Keybukthe simple answer, of course, is the packager should transition correctly in the maintainer scripts04:42
pittisure, but that's a bit boring04:43
KeybukI actually find the fact that dpkg punishes you for moving conffiles about quite nice04:43
Keybukbecause YOU SHOULDN'T MOVE THEM04:43
pittiI DIDN'T04:43
Keybuksuuure, blame upstream04:43
=== pitti just fixes stupid packages from other people :-)
jbaileyKamion: 'kay.  I've got a simple patch here.  Do you want it in a new bug, or in an email?04:44
pittiKeybuk: the bad thing is that it doesn't punish the maintainer, but the user04:44
elmohow do I get w3m to auto-reload?04:44
pittiKeybuk: --with-maintainer-spanking would be much better :)04:44
elmo+ a page04:44
Keybukpitti: doesn't really affect the user04:44
Kamionjbailey: new bug please04:44
pittiKeybuk: on upgrade he has to answer conffile questions04:45
kokeelmo: shift+R ??04:45
elmokoke: no, as in, reload it every 5 mins04:45
Keybukpitti: why?  dpkg no longer knows about the conffile04:45
Kamionpitti: only when the package maintainer fucks up04:45
elmowithout me sitting here pressing R every 5 mins04:45
Keybukthat only happens when the maintainer gets things wrong04:45
=== pitti invokes dch on concordia and is suddenly greeted with nano
kokeelmo: ok, I missed the "auto-" :D04:45
Kamionyou don't set EDITOR=vim everywhere?04:45
Kinnisonpitti: are you upset?04:45
pittiKinnison: no, what about?04:46
Kinnisonpitti: nano04:46
=== Kinnison is
pittiKinnison: I just wondered why my vim commands produced strange results :)04:46
=== Kinnison grins
KamionKinnison: what why? it's better than vim as default editor04:46
KinnisonKamion: I know it is; unfortunately I hate it :-)04:46
Kamionyou know where $EDITOR is :)04:46
KinnisonI know where sudo update-alternatives --config editor is04:47
pittithat must have been changed very recently04:47
Mithrandirpitti: it's a nice revenge for emacs not being installed on chinstrap04:48
pittiMithrandir: I'm on concordia, btw04:48
kokeelmo: while true;do w3m -dump $URL;sleep 5;done ??04:48
Mithrandirpitti: I read that.  Still a nice revenge04:48
kokeor is the page too big?04:48
tsengseb128: ok.. what I did was04:49
elmokoke: well I kinda wanted it interactively04:49
tsengseb128: i took the cvs revision of gstqueue.c with the fixes, looks like the only ones since release to that point, and diff'd it04:49
Kamionpitti: yes, I changed it a week or two ago04:49
tsengthat patches werent quite clean04:49
Kamionvim 1:6.3-046+1ubuntu4, 1 Mar 200504:49
pittiKamion: ah, you mean as a general default? Agreed, nano might make more sense04:50
pittiKamion: I thought elmo changed it locally on concordia :-)04:50
Kamionpitti: oh no, general default changed, I guess he just upgraded04:51
pittihe did04:51
pittibecause yesterday I still got vim04:51
tsengseb128: actually that also pulls in a fix for http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=166250 .. which isnt adverse04:52
seb128tseng: <tseng> that patches werent quite clean04:52
seb128tseng: what do you mean ?04:52
tsengthe patches on bugzilla were against cvs04:52
tsengone didnt apply cleanly to our package04:52
seb128oh, k04:52
tsengso i looked at cvs, and I did it this way04:52
tsengpulling in another trivial fix04:53
tsengbut I think thats fine04:53
seb128does it fix the issue for you ?04:53
seb128where do you have the issue without the fix ?04:53
tsengjust finished building04:53
tsengi have issues with skipping in mp3s in muine04:53
tsengso do several others04:54
seb128muine also04:54
seb128lemme try muine04:54
tsengit seems fixed here04:55
tsengseb128: do you want my source package, or just the patch?04:55
seb128patch is enough04:56
seb128but I would like to have the bug first04:56
=== Seveas [dennis@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128just listening on a mp3 and it skip during the play ?04:56
tsengafter 3 seconds04:56
tsengit makes a seek04:56
tsengmissing a few seconds of the song04:56
tsengit seems to be every mp3 for me, some people claim some arent affected04:57
schweebtseng: oggs too?04:57
tsengschweeb: no04:57
schweebI'll test in a few04:57
seb128tseng: I don't get the bug but I'm happy to use a fix from the CVS in the package if it works for you04:58
tsengseb128: http://getsweaaa.com/~tseng/gstqueue-fix.diff04:58
seb128tseng: can you attach it to the bug I pointer before ?04:58
tsengseb128: posted05:02
tsengnp, thanks for having a look05:03
sivangdoes anybody know if pitti is supposed to come back?05:11
seb128I think so05:12
thomwell, given the meeting's in an hour, i guess so05:12
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sivangpitti: rehi :)05:15
pittisivang: changed net connection05:15
sivangpitti: better now?05:15
svenldaniels: there, patch for xresprobe is in #7144 attachement, i believe it is easy enough to use for hoary-post-preview, and anything beyond that would need a more complete rewrite, which should be post-hoary, but i would gladly participate in it.05:15
svenldaniels: adding support for multiple head and such.05:15
pittisivang: no, before I was on WLAN, but I don't get on my desktop with this05:15
pittisivang: now I'm on NAT over my desktop, so I can also ssh to it05:16
Kamionsvenl: oh, I tested CD boot on pmac with fs_of.diff, worked fine05:16
=== metallikop is now known as kop|gone
Kamionsvenl: haven't yet had time to try either hard disk boot with that diff, or anything with the other diff05:16
=== kop|gone is now known as metallikop
sivangpitti: ah cool, it's nice to have the desktop as a "development server" when sshing to it from the laptop05:16
=== T-Bone is now known as T-Gone
pittisivang: any news with the gcm patch?05:19
sivangpitti: finished, testing now05:21
svenlKamion: i failed to get fully booting from CD working, but both harddisk booting (provided the kernel is on a filesystem supported by yaboot) and netboot works.05:21
sivangpitti: (with all the nitpicking)05:21
svenlKamion: i could mail you the upgrade, and you could try a netboot on occastion, and we fix yaboot-installer to also work on pegasos.05:22
svenlthis would let only two remaining problems for the pegasos support : 05:22
svenl1) X doesn't failback on pcigart if agpgart doesn't work, but X still works in unaccelerated 2D mode.05:23
svenl2) initial boot from CD is still broken.05:23
sivangpitti: bah, there's some assertion failing now, checking to see if it's upstream or my fault05:23
pittisivang: if it didn't occur before, it's yours :-)05:24
svenlam working on 1) now, and 2) should be solved by the new OF update i am preparing, don't have an exact date though.05:24
svenlKamion: when is hoary official release date ? 05:25
thomapril 605:25
svenlOk, i will try to have the OF update released by then.05:25
svenlBTW, i am thinking of bundling a ubuntu/hoary powerpc CD with each pegasos board sold or distributed, is there any formalities on doing so ? 05:26
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svenlthom: what about the kubuntu release ?05:26
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schweebtseng: there?05:30
schweebtseng: what exactly was the muine bug?05:31
tsengschweeb: skipp after 3 seconds on mp3s05:31
schweeba skip in the first few seconds of a song?05:31
schweebgot it here05:31
Nafallodholbach: welcome back :-)05:31
dholbachhi Nafallo :-)05:31
tsengschweeb: ok. standby for a fix05:31
tsenglatexer tested the patch also05:32
tsengschweeb: hopefully have it in ubuntu sometime today05:32
schweebtseng: I noticed that problem like last week, but I thought it was a problem with how the mp3s I had just downloaded were encoded, heh05:33
Kamionsvenl: mail upgrade> yeah, that'd be good; then I could get yaboot-installer working properly with the confidence that I can test it05:33
sabdflsvenl: no formalities required, please go ahead!05:33
tsengschweeb: nope.05:34
sivangpitti: think I've found it05:34
tsenghi sabdfl 05:34
svenlsabdfl: hi, you are Mark, right ? 05:34
Kamionhappy to test pegasos netboot installs at least05:34
Kamionand make 'em work05:34
=== sivang would love to lay hands on a pegasos machine, desktop OR laptop :-)
svenlbut i guess that it would be nicer if the pegasos was officially listed as supported.05:34
svenlsivang: hehe.05:35
pittiIs it just me, or do other people also get nasty authentication error questions with apt-get?05:35
svenlno laptop yet05:35
=== svenl can't comment on unannounced products and the like :)
sivangsvenl: I've heared about plans :)05:35
Kamionsvenl: "officially" => i.e. in the installer manual and such?05:35
svenlKamion: can your email get 640K attachements ? 05:36
svenlsivang: "can't comment on unannounced products".05:36
sabdflsvenl: if you can work with kamion to ensure it works first time every time, we can integrate patches to docs etc with pleasure05:36
Kamionsvenl: mail cjwatson@riva.debian.net, I think that should work05:36
sabdflalso, we can list the service / products you provide in the marketplace pages, or elsewhere on the site like the hardware database05:36
Kamion(batch SMTP hack)05:36
svenlKamion: whatever you mention as officially supported, even if there are some erratas. I have not yet looked at the manual, so i don't know if it entails any change.05:37
Kamionyeah, there'll be a manual change and I guess general web site docs05:37
KamionI don't know if the CD packaging has been finalised yet, but if CD boot isn't going to work in time then that's a non-issue anyhow05:37
svenlKamion: as far as i understand, you would just need the right boot cd yaboot line documentation, and the rest should be self documented in d-i :)05:37
Kamionoh, cd booting will work?05:37
svenlKamion: no problem, you mention "supported provided you upgrade to OF version xx"05:38
svenlKamion: sure, i just didn't manage to fix it until yesterday 16h00 :)05:38
Kamionyeah, understood, OF hacking => non-trivial05:38
svenland OF hacking without the board with removable flash is non-fun.05:38
svenlnono-productive also, as it stops as soon as you make a mistake and kill the flash.05:38
sivangsvenl: hehe ok, are you close pegasos company? :)05:39
svenlsivang: i am pegasos company :)05:39
svenl(well partly).05:39
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KamionI really must actually serial-console the Pegasos or get a KVM switch sometime before the heat death of the universe05:41
sivangsvenl: oh 05:41
svenlKamion: serial console is great.05:41
sivangsvenl: I'm struck05:41
svenlKamion: well, gnome on serial console doesn't make much sense, but hey.05:41
Kamionif I'd thought about it I'd have done it together with the DVD+RW order I just put in05:41
sivangsvenl: you also work on morphos?05:42
svenlKamion: mmm, there is a little yaboot/keyboard/serial console too.05:42
svenlsivang: nope, i did the linux/debian/debian-installer/parted/whatever stuff, organized free giveaway of machines, and do some OF development lately.05:42
svenl(among others).05:42
svenlsivang: absolutely no link with morphos, don't even have it installed.05:43
svenlKamion: BTW, i guess the livecd will need its own fixing, right ?05:46
mdzseb128: here05:47
Kamionsvenl: for what?05:48
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seb128mdz: is the meeting planning open to changes ?05:48
shayakernel abi seems to have been broken again05:48
seb128mdz: ie: I've some stuff to put on it05:48
mdzseb128: certainly05:48
pittiHi mdz 05:49
mdzseb128: the gaim/panel crash happened again while I was asleep05:49
mdzseb128: this time I had -dbg installed05:49
mdzI forget the bug#; you closed it right?05:49
seb128yep, WORKSFORME05:49
svenlKamion: that ubuntu-installer works on peg doesn't guarantee that the live-cd infrastructure works.05:50
Mithrandirlamont: I think that mount should be librarified and have callback hooks if it needs to prompt the user somehow (think smbmount).05:50
Kamionsvenl: oh, I see. but the live CD infrastructure is basically just d-i with a few extra tweaks; if d-i works, then the live CD should too.05:50
Kamionsvenl: (assuming you can boot it)05:50
shayais there a new -4 kernel package in the works?05:51
svenlKamion: ok, cool.05:51
Kamionshaya: 2.6.10-26 was uploaded earlier today05:51
shayamadwifi can't load with current image/restricted set05:51
lamontMithrandir: ew05:51
Kamion... but had nothing to do with madwifi05:51
svenlKamion: for documentation, the pegasos will not be able to boot by pressing 'c' like the macs, you need to hand enter "boot cd /path/to/yaboot".05:51
lamontMithrandir: mount is _supposed_ to stay simple...05:51
Mithrandirlamont: you also want to be able to prompt the user for stuff like crypto.05:52
lamontMithrandir: is that what you wanted to chat about?05:52
Mithrandirlamont: yeah05:52
shayalinux-source-2.6.10 (2.6.10-26)  / linux-restricted-modules-2.6.10 ( is causing me problems05:52
Kamionsvenl: ok, noted, thanks. I didn't really expect the 'c' trick to work on non-Macs ...05:52
Mithrandirlamont: basically to see your response and listen to any great ideas you might have. :)05:52
lamontyeah..  I understand that... it just makes my brain hurt05:52
shayarevert to old -3 kernel and it works05:52
Kamionsvenl: um - should that be 'boot cd:,/path/to/yaboot'? or is there magic to make the space work?05:52
Mithrandirlamont: it would remove the need to patch mount for lots of silly things, though05:52
mdzdevelopment meeting on #ubuntu-meeting in 2 minutes05:52
Mithrandirmdz: uhm, isn't that 7 minutes? :)05:53
mdzis my clock wrong?05:53
mdzFri Mar 11 16:57:57 UTC 200505:53
lamont6.5 min, but yews05:53
svenlKamion: also about yaboot, it seems to me that the yaboot.conf in same place as yaboot is disabled in yaboot in chrp hardware.05:53
svenlneed to check.05:53
mdz11 Mar 08:53:42 ntpdate[20848] : step time server offset -269.973498 sec05:53
svenlKamion: boot <device> <file> <args> is the current syntax.05:53
Kamionsvenl: oh, do I still need to add /etc/yaboot.conf? will a symlink work there, or does it need to be a copy?05:54
svenlbut the other should work also, is more involved though.05:54
Kamionok, cool05:54
svenlno, a symlink should be ok.05:54
svenl(provided your tftp server supports copies).05:54
=== buga-away is now known as buga
Kamiontftp? on a cd?05:54
svenlI believe both yaboot's ext2 code follows symlinks, and i implemented the functionality in pegasos-of ext2 code.05:54
svenlah, well.05:55
Mithrandirlamont: do you have any other great ideas?  (Except possibly "fork mount", but I would like to avoid that)05:55
svenlfor now the symlink would be best.05:55
svenlunless you patch yaboot that is.05:55
Kamionok, consider it done05:55
sivangwe have a development meeting today right?05:55
svenlDon't know how it works on isos, since it uses the OF code, but i will make sure our OF does the right thing.05:55
svenlhi zul.05:56
seb128mdz: I would like to switch eds and friends from heimdal to libkrb5, any opinion on this ? Firefox and OO.o2 use libkrb5 ... and since heimdal-dev and libkrb5-dev conflict ... any opinion on this ? 05:56
zulin 4 minutes if my clock is off05:56
zulhi svenl 05:56
sivangzul: phew, I thought I missed it05:56
svenlKamion: will you merge the fs_of.c patch ? 05:56
lamontMithrandir: I think the callbacks are probably the best answer..  must poinder it some05:56
seb128mdz: I've rebuilt it here with librkb5, seems to work fine, and that's easy to revert if we have an issue before hoary with it05:56
mdzseb128: that's OK with me05:56
seb128k, I'll do it so, thanks05:56
Mithrandirseb128: nice, thanks.05:57
=== lamont takes a 1 min typing break
seb128Mithrandir: you're welcome05:57
Kamionsvenl: will have to test more on pmac, but apart from that yeah05:57
elmopitti: is it you looking at this ntp horkage on first start?05:57
Kamionsvenl: although I might change it around a bit if you don't mind - "is_not_iso = 0;" makes my head hurt :)05:57
sabdflKamion: any idea how long Apple boxen have had 700MB-capable cd-rw's?05:58
svenlKamion: if you could also try the partition.c patch instead ? I think it is quite broken to have the partition code report one partition on a iso cd ?05:59
Kamionsabdfl: no, sorry05:59
Kamionthe partition.c patch scares me, I don't know enough about why that's there05:59
Kamionbut I'll give it a go06:00
pittielmo: EWORKSFORME06:00
pittielmo: do you have any further info?06:00
Kamionsvenl: /etc/yaboot.conf -> /install/yaboot.conf symlink on the CD done06:00
elmopitti: yes, it's entirely reproduceable on any hoary server I have here or warty ones running the ntp backport06:00
pittielmo: _what_ is reproducible?06:01
pittielmo: can you please mail me? meeting begins now06:01
elmopitti: ntp doesn't start because it claims to be able to unfind the ntp user06:01
svenlKamion: and "boot cd install/yaboot" to boot then.06:01
mdzamu: #ubuntu-meeting06:01
Kamionsvenl: ok, no initial slash needed?06:02
svenlKamion: if it works for you i will audit the yaboot code and check.06:02
svenlKamion: nope, it can be put, but per default it adds it.06:02
pittielmo: ntp-simple?06:02
Kamion'k. development meeting now, need to concentrate on that06:02
Kamionok, cool06:02
elmopitti: yep06:02
svenlOk, let you to your meeting.06:02
elmopitti: if you can't multitask, it can wait, don't worry06:02
pittielmo: just installed ntp-simple, now the server runs. what now?06:03
elmopitti: reboot06:03
elmoseriously, it only happens post-reboot06:03
pittierm, later then06:03
pittielmo: okay, I will try this after meeting when I can reboot again06:04
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KinnisonAnyone here successfully got gaim-encryption working in hoary?06:05
dholbachKinnison: yes06:06
dholbachKinnison: if you enabled it in the plugins section, things should be fine06:06
dredgKinnison: yeah. i have 2.35 waiting to be uploaded... after i get some sleep though06:06
KamionMithrandir: will you be uploading oo.o-amd64 for ia64 support? I'd like to get those seeds sorted out and various hacks removed sooner rather than later06:07
=== Kinnison is having problems getting it to recognise a key exchange with a rhel gaim-encryption instance
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pittiogra: yeah, 2.6.11 might still contain the broken inotify code06:07
MithrandirKamion: yes, but there's another hack I want to get in there.06:07
Kinnisondredg: did the protocol for key exchange change?06:07
schweebKinnison: yes, works for me06:07
ograeh, sure, since its form beginning of feb06:07
dredgKinnison: no, just bug fixes iirc06:07
=== Kinnison hmms
=== Kinnison decides to blame the RHEL end of the thing
sivangpitti: ok, fixed it, preparing new debdiff and pkgs06:08
schweebit's working fine for me ubuntu->ubuntu... don't have anyone else using it that's not on ubuntu06:08
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dredgKinnison:      2.35    Workaround for Jabber bug in Gaim06:08
dredgthat's it06:08
ograpitti: but its a huge difference in the pci database it seems, in 2.6.10 about 60% of my hal entrys are unknown....with 2.6.11 there are only a handfull of these06:09
pittiogra: then bitch fabbione to build a 2.6.11 final kernel :-) I'd love to have this as well to build hardened kernels :-)06:09
Kinnisondredg: how much of a workaround is it?06:09
pittiogra: however, this is loooow priority06:10
Kamion2.6.11.2 rather ...06:10
Kinnisondredg: and do you have a hoary deb I could try out?06:10
Kamionunless there's been a .3 while I wasn't looking06:10
pittiKamion: even if it was, -> .3 is probably a piece of cake, packaging-wise06:10
=== pitti is happy to see a stable kernel branch again
fabbioneit's like.. you can build a kernel :-)06:11
pittifabbione: yeah, if I find some time I try to update the current package06:12
elmofabbione: did you see the timings I posted earlier?06:12
fabbioneelmo: no. i saw the ones in the log. we need to check with 2706:12
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fabbionethe new idiotify patch did invalidate the cache06:13
elmoidiotify, how very apt06:13
fabbionepitti: with all the change sin 2.6.10 not merged in .11 is understandable06:13
dredgKinnison: tiny. it's to do with jabber stripping html06:14
pittifabbione: do you have the 2.6.11 in an arch repo I should branch, or is it just download, modify, upload?06:14
fabbionepitti: the latter06:14
Kinnisondredg: oh06:15
dredgKinnison: can you ping me about it tomorrow? i've been on the go for about 40 hours at this point and i'm going to bed very soon06:16
svenlKamion: ah, i remember now , we need a backport of the gigabit ethernet driver too.06:16
Kamionsvenl: I thought we already had that in the Ubuntu kernel; but talk to fabbione or one of the guys if it needs to be updated06:16
KamionI may be mistaken06:17
Kinnisondredg: Go to bed then; I'll be around (if not on channel then on-net) for the foreseeable future :-)06:19
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svenlKamion: there is a much better patch we worked out with benh and the montavista marvell guys, which is going upstream.06:21
svenlKamion: will backport it to the debian 2.6.10 kernel, and they can apply it then.06:22
Kamionjbailey: isn't the 'tail -n +2 /proc/swaps' needed to strip off the header? your patch removes it06:23
Kamionsvenl: ok06:23
jbaileyKamion: I'm looking in the third column for the word partition and doing a continue otherwise.06:23
Kamionoh, ok06:23
Kamionjbailey: I also have a suspicion that biggest_partition's value will not be preserved when you exit the 'while read' loop06:24
Kamionjbailey: 'while read' has a habit of creating a subshell06:24
Kamionbut ICBW06:24
jbailey$ busybox sh partsize.sh06:25
jbaileyKamion: Also works with posh and bash.06:26
sivangpitti: you can take a look at the debdiff already, http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/g-c-m/sivan-gcm-crack.diff06:26
sivangpitti: and the rest is in http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/g-c-m/06:27
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Kamionjbailey: you're right, I think I'm thinking of foo | while read06:27
=== T-Gone is now known as T-Bone
Kamionjbailey: could do with fixing the shell quoting and losing the backslashes, but looks good, thanks06:28
Kamionworks for me in a test install06:28
KamionI'll upload06:29
jbaileyMm, yeah, probably good for safety. I hadn't bothered with the quotes since I know what the values are.06:29
=== Kamion <- paranoid :)
Kamionbut you're right, shouldn't matter unless /proc/swaps goes insane06:30
jbaileyPerhaps it's a proximity to kinnison and elmo thing ;)06:30
=== Kinnison looks confused
schweebKinnison: he meant kamion06:32
=== T-Bone hands over an album of Black Sabbath to Kamion and ducks :}
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=== Kinnison looks confused still
dredgKinnison: try http://niall.evil.ie/ubuntu 06:33
=== Kinnison wonders if bazaar will give him some IO cycles
Kinnisondredg: looking06:33
dredgKinnison: if 2.35 kills your family/eats your pets/steals your last rolo then i'll disavow all knowledge of your intentions06:33
Kamionschweeb: I doubt he did, actually :)06:34
schweeboh well, heh06:34
schweebKamion: oh, didn't realize kinnison = daniels06:35
Kamionkinnison definitely != daniels :)06:35
=== Kinnison gets out the flamethrower and sets it to *Uberburn*
KinnisonKamion: can I burn him, can I can I?06:35
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Kinnisondredg: well, it didn't kill gaim dead06:36
Kinnisondredg: when my RHEL toting friend is back I'll try it06:36
Kinnisondredg: thanks for the preview06:36
schweebI'll stfu06:36
mjg59zul: Yeah, that swsusp patch is obviously correct06:36
mjg59(And fixes some data corruption issues)06:36
zulmjg59: ill push to fabbione for -2706:36
=== koke 's going to try his new wireless card :)
Kamionschweeb: (there's an important extra "Silver" in the name ...)06:36
dredgKinnison: good start :) you'll have to restart gaim (though i assume you know that)06:36
Kinnisondredg: Yep; and did06:36
dredgKinnison: good stuff, let me know if it works...06:36
Kinnisondredg: I assume I don't need server support for this to work06:37
dredgKinnison: no, it's client<->client06:37
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mantienahi all06:38
schweebKamion: heh, oops.  too similar of names06:38
Kinnisondredg: good good06:38
mjg59zul: Cool, thanks06:38
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MithrandirKamion: ooo-amd64 uploading later tonight, I need to run off for a couple of hours now.06:39
dholbachbye Mithrandir 06:39
dredgKinnison: let me know how you get on. i can install some version of rhel on my laptop or on another partition for testing06:40
T-BoneMithrandir: thank you so much :)06:40
MithrandirT-Bone: my pleasure.  You owe me beer when we meet. :)06:40
KamionMithrandir: awesome06:40
T-BoneMithrandir: definitely ;)06:41
=== lamont brbr
lamontbrb even06:42
T-Bonelamont: think about some mail whenever you can... :)06:43
=== T-Bone hides
=== lamont is back
T-Bonethat was quick :)06:45
lamontI said brb after all.06:45
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svenldaniels: ah, i believe i have the pcigart fallback patch, appending to the bug report.06:50
mantienamvo: hi, are you online ? I have some suggestions (sort of bugreports) about package management to you ;)06:51
mvomantiena: can you send to me by mail? I'm in a meeting right now 06:53
mvomantiena: we can talk tonight (in ~3-4h) or tomorrow :)06:54
mantienamvo: ok, I can wait06:54
mvomantiena: thanks! I'm looking forward to talk with you :)06:55
svenldaniels: there, i also have the patch for the pci fallback, untested though, but seems transparent enough.06:55
svenlNow, X should be solved, and i can see about the kernel patch backport for 2.6.10 kernel marvell gige support, and then test the yaboot stuff once Kamion has tested it.06:56
svenlKamion has ported yaboot-installer.06:57
mjg59Anyone with an HP laptop around?06:58
fabbionemjg59: i have a compaq06:59
mjg59fabbione: HP Compaq or pre-merger?06:59
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mjg59Ah, right. Probably not the same, then.07:00
fabbioneArmada M70007:00
trukulomjg59, me07:00
mjg59trukulo: Does your sleep button generate ACPI events?07:00
trukulomjg59, yes07:00
trukuloi mean, no07:01
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trukuloi don't have sleep button07:01
mjg59Ah. Heh.07:01
trukulobut lid does07:01
mjg59This has an ACPI sleep button that appears to do nothing07:01
ograsounds like acer07:01
trukulomjg59, use xev to see if key is being logged07:01
trukuloyou know what i mean07:02
mjg59trukulo: Yeah. No keycode that I can see.07:02
trukulomjg59, it's a keyboard problem then, i have the same problem with mute button07:03
trukulothere was a patch for kernels, omnibook patch, i think07:03
mjg59The DSDT has a sleep button in it, though, which confuses me07:04
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CymAre there any apache developers around?07:35
dholbachCym: they are all in a meeting07:36
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Cymawe thanks dholbach07:36
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mjg59Clearlooks looks funny when things have those bouncy left to right to left progress bars07:50
T-BoneKamion: ^^^ any clue?07:50
Nafallomjg59: agreed :-)07:50
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=== T-Bone supposes that's a direct result of cloopfs not building on ia64
KamionT-Bone: correct, the live CD cloop is ancient07:54
T-BoneKamion: ok. I'll post a comment explaining that07:54
T-BoneKamion: the blocker for cloop is mozilla shit, right?07:54
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KamionT-Bone: I have the dates and such; I'll reply07:55
Kamionlamont: all cloop builds on ia64 for some time have died with:07:56
Kamionrm: cannot remove directory `/build/chroot-livecd//dev': Device or resource busy07:56
Kamionlamont: can that be cleaned up so that we can at least see the current status?07:56
=== lamont needs to track down exactly why it leaves things in that state upon dying, too
KamionT-Bone: but yes, it's firefox AFAIK07:57
T-Bonei wonder if we could discuss ia64 a bit during the meeting :P07:58
T-BoneKamion: your "I'll reply" meant you'll reply to the bugreport?07:58
T-Bonebecause it's been assigned to me, you see..07:58
KamionT-Bone: oh, I see; well, you can if you like :)07:58
KamionI just replied though, since I had the date when it was last built to hand07:58
Kamionand I figured you would not have that easily accessible07:59
T-Bone'like' might not be the word I'd use ;)07:59
T-Bonei shall thank you07:59
Kamionand it seemed like useful information07:59
lamontKamion: fresh build launched08:00
=== T-Bone wonders if some firefox guru will stand up...
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T-Bonethough i'm pretty convinced that's a combination of things, since it doesn't affect debian but is reproduceable with debian packages08:01
T-Boneunfortunately i'm clueless wrt firefox and that kind of stuff08:01
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mxpxpodfabbione: ping08:07
Seveas...or tetris08:09
mxpxpodfabbione: how long does it take to make a linux-image?08:09
fabbioneit depends from a lot of things08:09
fabbionefrom 30 minutes to several hours08:09
mxpxpodfabbione: I'm waiting for 2.6.11... I tried building my own, but it didn't work quite right08:09
thommxpxpod: how fast is your machine, which architecture, ...08:09
tsengdaniels: dude. dlloader support for nvidia08:09
fabbione.11 is no priority for me right now08:11
mx|gonefabbione: I figured :)08:11
fabbionewe are going to release with .1008:12
fabbioneand i might ask elmo to remove .11 from hoary08:12
fabbionethat is the sanest thing to do 08:12
fabbioneto avoid confusion08:12
mx|gonefabbione: ah, ok08:12
mx|gonegotta go08:12
T-Bonefabbione: definitely08:12
crimsunfabbione: I agree with removing .11 from universe08:20
trukulofabbione, i agree08:21
trukulofabbione, and put lion with broken leg as hoary wallpaper08:21
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pittiogra: you can try to find out the hal slowness; I have no idea about it and it works for me08:44
ograpitti: hal slowness ?08:44
ograpitti: not here08:44
pittiogra: later08:45
ograpitti: was fixed by an upload right before my last patch went in08:45
pittiogra: oh, cool08:45
ograi told you back then ;)08:45
ograyoure to busy ;)08:45
pittiogra: #6879 and #600208:46
pittiogra: I think this might still be an issue08:46
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pittiogra: now that you know the hal guts... :-)08:46
ograpitti: i'll look at them08:46
pitticool, thanks08:46
mdkeare you guys in a meeting?08:46
mdkedon't want to disturb if so08:47
tsengyes, but I can try and help you08:47
mdketseng, thanks its simple. I want to know if our wiki can handle icon insertion with the MoinMoin markup.08:47
tsengas in an image?08:48
mdkespecifically the images hosted on the wiki08:48
mdkelike those which appear on the FrontPage for example08:48
tsengcan you just try it?08:48
mdkei have08:48
mdkeand i've searched a lot08:48
tsengyou know more than I do, unfortunately08:49
mdkeits the sort of thing that one person might know08:49
smI can answer that, if you point me to an example of the markup08:49
mdkesm, of moinmoin markup?08:49
mdkefor cliccability08:50
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smok, what should I search for at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats/src08:51
mdkesm, what do you mean?08:51
smif this is OT, let's go private08:51
thomKamion: are you coming down to gllug tomorrow?08:52
Kamionthom: yep08:55
Kamionthom: see you there?08:55
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svenlKamion: you have email.08:57
svenlKamion: please tell me ASAP once you flash the prom, as i would like to know the result. There should be no problem, but it is for my own peace of mind.08:58
Kamionsvenl: ok, will do08:58
=== Kamion adds ubuntu-base and ubuntu-ship Task: headers to the CD's Packages files
Kamionthis is to help out archive-copier08:59
KamionI may rename to something other than Task: at some point, to avoid them showing up in aptitude09:00
thomso, on the dvd front - buying such a best, should i be looking at dvd-rw or dvd+rw? (assuming i can't find a burner capable of both)09:01
thom"such a beast"09:02
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KamionI went DVD+RW, not with any actual knowledge though09:02
Kamionactually "DVD+-R/RW"09:02
Kamionwhatever that means :)09:02
Kamion40 quid or so from dabs09:02
thomthat's pretty good09:03
Kamionsvenl: yaboot-installer already does the append="console=..." thing :)09:03
svenlKamion: cool.09:04
svenlKamion: i was not sure, as serial console and pmacs, well ...09:04
Kamionsvenl: it's not for console= specifically, it's for anything after the -- in /proc/cmdline09:06
svenlKamion: ah, ... I added console before -- in yaboot.conf.09:07
=== pitti 's gf needs attention -> good night for now
svenlKamion: BTW, there is something fishy again with the modules ?09:07
svenlthe kernel modules .udeb.09:08
svenlinsmod /lib/modules/2.6.10-4-powerpc/kernel/drivers/ide/pci/via82cxxx.ko09:09
svenlFATAL: Error inserting via82cxxx (/lib/modules/2.6.10-4-powerpc/kernel/drivers/ide/pci/via82cxxx.ko): Invalid module format09:09
svenlmmm, the modules are there, so maybe a module/kernel diff in the netboot images? I just downloaded them from the daily netboot builds.09:10
fabbionethat smells of ABI breakage09:10
fabbionebut i386 seems ok09:10
fabbioneso i doubt it can have destroyed the ppc one09:10
svenlfabbione: yeah, but maybe i just got a bad vmlinux for my initrd.gz, but i guess there is no way to check that.09:11
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svenloh well more test tomorrow.09:12
Mitariohey everyone09:12
mdzogra: I can't talk right now, but will you be here later to discuss hwdb rollout?09:14
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ogramdz: sure, for you always09:14
=== Kamion finishes off for the evening; night all
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=== sivang is off to restart network
janimako ping09:16
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zenroxhave a question09:19
zenroxthe nvidia module ant loading with the new kernel09:19
fabbionezenrox: works here fine09:20
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fabbionezenrox: what kernel are you using?09:20
zenroxwell i tried to do a modprobe it gives me a fatel error09:21
fabbionezenrox: what kernel are you using?09:21
fabbioneand what version of linux-restricted modules?09:21
fabbionewhat version of l-r-m are you using?09:21
fabbionethere is no l-r-m -2609:21
zenroxl-r-m 686- 2.6.10-609:22
zenroxso how do i fix it09:24
fabbionedpkg -p linux-restricted-modules-2.6.10-4-686 | grep Version09:25
fabbionethat version is old09:25
fabbioneyou need to upgrade l-r-m09:25
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zenroxwhats the name of it on apt-get09:29
=== thom -> cook; sleep
thomnight all09:31
ogragute nacht thom09:32
fabbionethe one i pasted above09:32
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danielsgod, why did I give STA in the UK my email address?  they're spamming me to tell me that I could travel to Sydney for only GBP39909:33
Treenaksdaniels: well, maybe you want to go there some day09:34
danielsTreenaks: not likely :P09:34
danielsbut yeah, it costs me about $au65 (for reference: around GBP27) to fly there09:35
zenroxfabbione: i wont install09:35
zenroxsays its allready upto date09:35
fabbionezenrox: you don't have the latest version. is the last one09:36
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fabbione-5 or something09:36
zenroxi have lrm 2.6.10-609:36
zenroxand it wont install the other one casue it says its allready uptodate09:36
fabbioneand it is not the last one09:36
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fabbionezenrox: do: dselect update -> apt-get install dist-upgrade OR apt-get install ubuntu-desktop09:37
metallikopI have a question about a lintian error I'm receiving for package grubconf09:37
metallikopW: grubconf source: unknown-architecture09:37
metallikopThe arcitectures in the control file are :09:37
metallikopArchitecture: amd64 i386 hurd-i386 netbsd-i38609:37
metallikopis this a legit lintian error, if so, how would I resolve?09:38
zenroxfabbione: it upgraded then still wont instert the module09:38
ogrametallikop,  hurd-i386 netbsd-i386 ?09:38
Treenaksmetallikop: try adding commas09:38
metallikopit doesn't like commas09:39
metallikopTreenaks: I tried that already09:39
ograi dont think the buildds know these arches09:39
fabbionezenrox: if your system was inconsistet at kernel level, i would suggest at least to try a reboot09:39
metallikopseb128: are you around?09:39
zenroxfabbione:  ok but it probly still wont work09:40
metallikopthis package was previously maintained by yourself09:40
seb128not afaik09:40
seb128that's news09:40
metallikopgrubconf (0.5.1-4ubuntu1) hoary; urgency=low09:40
metallikop  * Rebuilt with gnutls11.09:40
metallikop -- Sebastien Bacher <seb128@canonical.com>  Thu,  6 Jan 2005 16:53:59 +010009:40
ograprobably synced09:40
fabbioneseb128: everything that starts with *G* is your :-)09:41
seb128An upload for a transition is different of maintaining a package09:41
metallikopfair enough :)09:41
seb128fabbione: ah ah :)09:41
fabbionewhere is jdub when i need him :-)09:41
metallikopwell, what would be the best way to resolve this?09:41
metallikopremove those unknown archs?09:41
ografabbione: ring him up, he slept enough09:41
lamontmetallikop: that'd be one way09:42
metallikopis that the _preferred_ way?09:42
lamontother alternatives include adding an override to make it shut up, or just ignoring the warning09:42
Riddelllamont: any idea what the status of kdeaccessibility is?  It's compiled fine but marked as Uploaded not Installed09:42
lamontUploaded for very long == NEW09:42
lamontwell, almost always anyway09:43
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fabbionewho has a webcam and knows how to setup flumotion?09:44
ogrametallikop: i dont think we have to expect netbsd or hurd in the near future (at least not before the package needs to be touched aain)09:44
fabbioneafter the wizard it hangs grabbing from the webcam09:44
lamontRiddell: it was built a while ago, wasn't it...09:44
Riddelllamont: yeah, 8th09:44
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metallikopi'd have to agree09:45
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lamontRiddell: grumble09:46
Riddelllamont: what's the crack?09:47
lamontlog archived..09:48
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Kamionfabbione: hm, that's two ABI-sounding problems with -26 reported so far, sounds suspicious09:49
lamontdaemon-20050309-2150.log.gz:Mar  8 12:30:03 buildd-mail: Subject: kdeaccessibility_3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu1_i386.changes REJECTED09:50
=== lamont ponders
lamont 047f2f41f962decc00acc0222338a1b9 82358 contrib/utils optional kttsd-contrib-plugins_3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu1_i386.deb09:50
lamontI'm gonna bet on that one.09:51
lamontneeds an overrides update by elmo09:51
lamontthen it'll just be NEW instead of REJECTed09:51
Riddellwhat's the likely problem with it?09:52
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zuloops...wrong window10:02
Riddelllamont: do I need to poke elmo?10:04
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robertj_I did a fresh install of the hoary preview and Natuilus doesn't handle sftp by default, is this a known missing package omitted for space reasons?10:06
mdzdaniels: ping?10:07
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Mitariomvo, here?10:10
mvohey Mitario 10:10
Mitarioheya :)10:10
mvohow are you :) ?10:10
dholbachwb mvo 10:10
Mitariomvo, yeah fine :-) you?10:10
Mitariofinally have time to do some maintainance work -> weekends10:10
danielsmdz: pong10:10
mvoMitario: wonderfull! you are busy with real-life right now? school stuff?10:11
robertj_no davs handler either10:12
lamontRiddell: well, someone does, but he's ESLEEP10:12
Mitarioyeah i was this week, school, gf, work :)10:12
mvoMitario: ahhh ... gf ;)10:12
lamontMithrandir: can 6438 be closed?10:12
Mitariomvo, =_10:12
Riddelllamont: what's the problem with that package?10:12
Mitariomvo, =)10:12
mvoMitario: a account for froud would be cool, he is working on the update-manager documentation right now10:13
Mitarioyes i got the messages :)10:13
mvootherwise, I think we are in pretty good shape for release10:13
Mitariowas just about to create the account but I don't know a way other than IRC to contact him10:13
mvoMitario: ups, sorry. I should have forwarded you a mail from him :/10:13
danielsmdz: pong/me yawns, realises it's after 8am, glares at lamont for making him sleepy, and heads to bed.10:13
Mitariomvo, oh, and I was wondering if you added the Polish translation and i18n improvements by Zygmunt Krynicki10:14
Mitariomvo, oh, i'll check again10:14
mdzdaniels: er, you're still awake?10:14
Mitariomvo, the only message I have here is that fround wants to help us :)10:14
danielsmdz: i bleed for ubuntu10:15
Mitariowait, i'll beagle for it10:15
mvoMitario: I merged the i18n stuff, didn't I CC you?10:15
Mitariomvo, uh i guess not10:15
danielsalthough I have passed out a couple of times10:15
mdzdaniels: I assumed you missed the development meeting because you were asleep10:15
Mitariomvo, but thats fine :) i just wasn't sure if it was comitted already, so good :-)10:16
danielsmdz: lurked for most of it, was passed out for some10:16
lamontdaniels: ??10:16
danielsalarmingly, my chair makes a far better bed than my bed (i don't wake up sore)10:16
danielsin any case, i wasn't really with it much (still feeling rather unwell, plus it was late), and nothing came up relevant to me, so I just lurked10:17
lamontRiddell: kttsd-contrib-plugins needs to be added/fixed in the overrides file, and then the uploads reprocessed10:17
Mitariobtw, I must say the new Human theme rocks, compliments for the one who created it :)10:18
lamontMithrandir: still around?10:18
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mdzdaniels: what would be the best way to retrieve the string identifier from a monitor?10:21
mdzdaniels: is that a DDC thing?10:21
lamonteep. must fetch kidlets10:24
mdzMitario: I will pass on your feedback10:26
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robertj_mdz: should I file a but about nautilus not handling sftp/webdav by default?10:28
Mitariomdz, thanks :)10:30
mdzrobertj_: it does handle them by default10:31
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Mitariomvo, oh, by the way i forwarded a Greek update-notifier translation to you10:37
robertj_mdz: I just did a fresh install and i'm getting the error that they don't have a handler10:37
mvoMitario: don't you have access to the u-n svn?10:37
mdzrobertj_: a fresh install of hoary preview?10:37
Mitariomvo, yeah I have, but i still haven't checked out my local copy :)10:38
MitarioI can't even remember the address anymore10:38
mvoMitario: heh :)10:38
mvoI can commit it10:38
Mitariomvo, it is still kerneljanitors right?10:39
mvoMitario: yep10:39
Mitarioahh, ok, i found it then :)10:39
Mitariodamn I really should spend less time reading mail and do more hacking/usefull stuff10:40
robertj_mdz: i386 preview cd install, and no love from sftp handlers10:40
tritiumThe latest kernel updates break loading of at least some modules, such as nvidia, and prevents the mounting iso966010:40
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tritiumfrom dmesg: disagrees about version of symbol struct_module10:40
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mdzrobertj_: ok, please file a bug.  Please collect as much information as you can (e.g. ~/.xsession-errors), because it's likely that this is working for others (since it works for me)10:44
Mitariomvo, so you think we can release update-manager 0.38?10:44
robertj_mdz: could it be the ssh server?10:44
robertj_and a bogus error msg?10:44
mvoMitario: it depends on latest python-apt and synaptic10:45
Mitariolatest released? or latest tla10:45
mvopython-apt 0.5.36ubuntu110:46
Mitariois it available upstream somewhere?10:46
mvosynaptic-svn (but be releaed very soon)10:46
Mitariokeep me updated :-)10:46
mdzrobertj_: I don't know10:47
robertj_hrmm, not playing nice with my warty machine upstairs :(10:50
robertj_nothing in xsession except wining about gnome-cups-icon continaully10:50
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mvoMitario: did you commited the translation10:56
Mitariomvo, no, not yet, shall I?10:57
mvoMitario: go ahead :)10:57
Mitariook :)10:57
mvoMitario: if you have time10:57
Mitariomvo, yeah sure :)10:59
mvocool, thanks :)10:59
robertj_mdz: when you initially create the connection do you do it through the connect to server dialog?10:59
mdzrobertj_: yes11:03
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Mitariomvo, ok comitted11:07
mvoMitario: great, thanks11:09
Mitariomvo, did you have fround's e-mail?11:11
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HiddenWolfWhy does evolution have an icon in the office menu?11:44
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mdzthom: ping?11:44
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piI upgraded to hoary, and XFree is still installed and running by default...does anybody know what i can do to run Xorg instead?11:45
HiddenWolfpi: install xserver-xorg11:46
jon1012pi, dpkg-reconfigure Xorg ?11:46
jon1012oh well, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg if you have already installed it11:46
piit is installed, i will try dpkg-reconfigure11:47
jon1012no ? :)11:47
jon1012ok :)11:47
pijon: do you know if this configuration does anything other than create an Xorg.conf?11:50
jon1012yes, normally it allows you to choose between xservers11:52
pihmm ok i guess i will bare through it then (by nature i tend not to trust the auto config tools because of dual monitors)11:53
mdzKamion: ping?11:54
mdzthom: (re: firefox upload)11:54
mdzKamion: (re: $LANG in d-i for xserver-xorg.config, #7138)11:54
mdzpi: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop11:55
mdzpi: in the future, please ask support questions on #ubuntu, this channel is for development discussion11:55
dholbachi'm out ... see you later11:55
pimdz: i was referred here from #ubuntu,  it was "odd behavior"11:56
mdzpi: it's a known bug that upgrades from Warty to Hoary are not perfect yet; it is necessary to pay attention to the proposed upgrade before executing it (or packages that you need may be removed)11:56
pimdz: that's understandable, thanks11:57
mvobye dholbach 11:59

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