[12:11] <svenl> daniels: ok, tomorrow i will forward you a patch, i have been thinking about it and it should be trivial to fix, if minifind is smart enough.
[12:14] <pitti> doko: you don't like postinst scripts any more? :-)
[12:15] <ogra> pitti: at least he broke his naming scheme...there is grep in the list....without any zope prefix :)
[12:19] <doko> I do hate debconf ...
[12:28] <pitti> good night everybody
[12:29] <ogra> night pitti 
[12:32] <ndim> Hi. lifeless asked me to join.
[12:33] <ndim> I'm libexif upstream maintainer, number two on the "project admin" list on http://sourceforge.net/projects/libexif
[12:35] <dholbach> hi ndim 
[12:36] <lifeless> so ndim was surprised that he hadn't heard about a recent security related update we did
[12:36] <ndim> Yes, I was a little surprised that I had to read about the advisory in the regular news :-)
[12:36] <lifeless> and I don't know the details of the security-update-handling policy. I'm hoping someone can clarify what ndim should expect to happen ...
[12:36] <lifeless> as hes upstream.
[12:37] <daniels> generally, vulnerabilities are reported to the vendor-sec list, which is a collection of security teams from various vendors
[12:37] <daniels> vendor-sec then co-ordinates disclosure and everyone agrees on an embargo date, and CAN numbers are assigned
[12:37] <daniels> sometimes they forget that upstream won't always be aware
[12:37] <ndim> OK, that happens.
[12:37] <daniels> in any case, we don't unilaterally issue security updates
[12:38] <ndim> Would you mind to Bcc the XXX-devel mailing list for future advisories?
[12:38] <daniels> future ubuntu advisories?
[12:38] <ndim> If you're publishing the advisory anyway...
[12:38] <daniels> (i don't handle security for ubuntu)
[12:38] <lifeless> ndim: so when the advisory is sent, copy to upstream ?
[12:39] <ndim> lifeless: Exactly. I know that coordinating on vendor-sec and stuff may get hectic, and getting the maintainer into the loop may be complicated/time consuming/whatever.
[12:40] <lifeless> that sounds reasonable to me... daniels whats the right way to get this to be de rigeur ?
[12:40] <ndim> Ideally, the maintainer would be included in that process, but at least in the libexif case, coordinating on vendor-sec was the better decision.
[12:40] <mdz> ndim: it's not always obvious where the advisory would be sent, and it would be a lot of work to collect contact addresses for the thousands of upstreams we have
[12:40] <lifeless> ok, mdz's here...
[12:41] <mdz> ndim: iirc, in the libexif case, it was a bug reported to our bugzilla
[12:41] <mkp> in general vendor-sec notifies the upstream maintainer if there's an obvious one
[12:41] <ndim> lifeless: Thx :-)
[12:41] <mkp> sending to a -devel list defeats the purpose of having vendor-sec closed
[12:41] <ndim> mkp: Right. I'm not complaining about not being included in the vendor-sec stage of the thing. That is a separate problem.
[12:41] <mdz> ndim: we are going to do that work anyway, eventually, but we don't have the data yet
[12:42] <mdz> ndim: once we do, it should be a straightforward matter to do what you want (allow you to subscribe to Ubuntu activity regarding your software)
[12:42] <ndim> mdz: Shouldn't you have the mail address in /usr/share/doc/PACKAGE/copyright ?
[12:43] <mdz> ndim: no, there is no such requirement
[12:43] <ndim> mdz: OK.
[12:44] <mdz> ndim: it's definitely true that in general, open source security process could use some improvement
[12:44] <ndim> mdz: I'm not trying to raise a stink, or anything.
[12:44] <mdz> ndim: but it's a complex issue and will require time and effort to get to a point where things are happening the way that we all would like
[12:45] <ndim> mdz: If it is not too much work to get the right address, a Bcc of the advisory would be appreciated. That's all.
[12:46] <mdz> ndim: you can tell Martin Pitt that, he releases our security advisories
[12:46] <lifeless> is there somewhere the address could be put, that we would generally look (even if its not mandated by policy) ?
[12:46] <mdz> ndim: however, I think it would be a burden on him to try to keep track of the notification preferences for our upstreams
[12:46] <mdz> lifeless: yes, the copyright file
[12:46] <mdz> but the information is often not there in the first place and becomes out of date
[12:47] <lifeless> yah
[12:47] <lifeless> and in fact the copyright file for libexif doesn't list the list.
[12:47] <lifeless>   Lutz Mller <urc8@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
[12:47] <lifeless>   Curtis Galloway <curtisg@users.sourceforge.net>
[12:47] <lifeless> ndim: are you either of those guys ?
[12:47] <mdz> --- [ndim]  ([U2FsdGVkX@helena.bawue.de) : Hans Ulrich Niedermann
[12:48] <mdz> apparently not
[12:48] <mdz> so even if we had a policy of checking the copyright file and notifying the upstream(s) listed there (which I'm sure would displease at least some upstreams), we wouldn't have found you this time :-/
[12:48] <ndim> No, I'm not.
[12:49] <mdz> ndim: at any rate, it would be much better to contact you _before_ we release the advisory
[12:49] <ndim> I'd have supposed that coordinating on vendor-sec, checking upstream for patches and stuff is so much work that finding out the -devel list wouldn't be much additional work. :-)
[12:49] <mdz> coordinating with the huge number of distinct projects is one of the greatest challenges in working on a distribution
[12:50] <ndim> mdz: That assumes that the maintainer is as available as you guys are. But a lot of OS projects are maintained by people who may be away for a week or two, so I wouldn't count on that.
[12:50] <mdz> ndim: it doesn't assume much; I think it would always be at least as good (and often better) to contact upstream earlier, so that they can be involved in reviewing the fixes
[12:51] <mdz> ndim: are you sure that no one was contacted?  typically upstreams receive notification from _somebody_, even if there's no formal process involved
[12:51] <mdz> ndim: perhaps one of the people listed above?
[12:53] <mdz> doko: ping?
[12:53] <doko> pong
[12:53] <ndim> mdz: I'll have to ask Lutz whether he got something. Curtis is dead for all practical matters :-)
[12:54] <ndim> I'll submit a bug report regarding the copyright file.
[12:54] <mdz> doko: can you do some investigation into the oo.o2 java issue for tomorrow's development meeting?
[12:54] <mdz> doko: we will discuss there how we can get oo.o2 into good shape
[12:55] <ogra> ndim: you could also come around again and ask pitti yourself, he is here regulary during german office hours
[12:55] <ndim> mdz: Right, theoretically, coordinating with the upstream maintainer before publishing the advisor makes sense. Just don't count on upstream maintainers being available within a reasonable timeframe.
[12:55] <ndim> ogra: Hehe. I'm in .de as well, I'll do that.
[12:56] <ogra> ndim: i know, saw your dns entry above, gruss aus der eifel ;)
[12:57] <doko> mdz: didn't realize about the dev-meeting tomorrow ... currently working on oo.o1, not .o2. I'm at Cebit tomorrow. I'll check now.
[12:57] <mdz> ndim: I've added some notes to the list to discuss at our next Ubuntu conference, we'll work on forging a formal process for working with upstreams on security issues and other bugs
[12:57] <mdz> doko: I emailed -devel a week ago to announce it
[12:59] <ndim> mdz: Nice, thank you. Summarizing my point: Don't count on upstream devs reacting fast, but please Bcc them with the advisory when possible.
[12:59] <doko> ok, I'll have to find an access point at Cebit :-)
[01:01] <doko> mdz: I'll look at it now, I can talk to Chris tomorrow, he's in Hannover as well.
[01:07] <ndim> ogra: Bah. Flat boring countryside. Horrible. :-)
[01:09] <ogra> ndim: yup, but still, i'm born there and spent my first 25 years there......
[01:10] <daniels> 00:09 < The-Ghost|afk> "bash: sudu: command not found"  ????????????????????????????????????????????+
[01:10] <ogra> heh
[01:10] <ndim> sudu? Sounds like science fiction character.
[01:10] <daniels> The one downside to this laptop is that the middle mouse button is right below the spacebar, so I accidentally twap it every now and then.
[01:10] <ndim> thinkpad?
[01:11] <daniels> yeah
[01:11] <ndim> You can adapt to that. Or rather, I have, at least.
[01:12] <ogra> daniels, i have something better here (bit older tho)
 krism: sure! but the winner of the arstechnica distribution of the year award shouldnt require backups period
[01:23] <lamont> Mithrandir: moo
[01:23] <jdub> doko: sweet baby jebus!
[01:24] <jdub> zope me harder!
[01:24] <zenwhen> O;
[01:24] <zenwhen> tomboy is broken
[01:24] <zenwhen> L(
[01:24] <tseng> define broken
[01:25] <schweeb> daniels: the trackpad on my laptop occasionally loses sync, and middle click pastes for me... not to fun when I'm in IRC a lot
[01:25] <zenwhen> it wont start for me
[01:25] <jdub> i think zope killed doko :|
[01:25] <zenwhen> It simply says All Done! and exits
[01:25] <tseng> well then
[01:25] <tseng> you need to a) add the applet, b) do --tray-icon
[01:26] <zenwhen> oh
[01:26] <tseng> its been that way for months, actually
[01:27] <zenwhen> I havent updated it for months
[01:27] <ajmitch> jdub: that many uploads has to do something to a person
[01:27] <zenwhen> :P
[01:27] <zenwhen> its nice tho
[01:27] <jdub> ajmitch: gnome hasn't killed seb128 yet ;)
[01:27] <ajmitch> true, but do you really think he's still the same?
[01:28] <dholbach> good night everyone
[01:28] <ajmitch> bye dholbach 
[01:29] <dholbach> *wave*
[02:10] <zul> hey
[02:19] <tseng> hi zul 
[02:20] <zul> hey tseng
[02:21] <enrico> jdub: if you're around, could you please add me to the moderators of the ubuntu-doc list?
[02:21] <jdub> sure
[02:21] <jdub> admin or moderator?
[02:21] <enrico> admin even would be fine
[02:22] <enrico> hornbeck said he would do it, but then I heard nothing
[02:22] <ogra> why the hell is nautilus opening every svg in mozilla by default, grrrr
[02:24] <jdub> enrico: preferred email?
[02:24] <enrico> jdub: enrico@enricozini.org
[02:37] <Amaranth> whoops
[02:44] <ndim> mdz: If you're gathering package contact addresses... another place where to find a developer mail address in a source package is the third parameter of a new-syntax AC_INIT() statement in configure.{ac,in}. (This just sprang into my mind; it may prove useful somewhere.)
[02:45] <daniels> ndim: that one's often neglected
[02:51] <ndim> daniels: Maybe, but it's a simple place for a script to look for.
[02:52] <daniels> right, but a misleading address is even worse than none at all
[02:54] <robertj> the new wallpaper is very progenyish...
[02:55] <ndim> daniels: If you want to contact the maintainer before the bug goes public. If you're just looking for possible Bcc adresses to send the advisory to, that address should work well (if present).
[02:55] <ndim> Well, it was just an idea to think about.
[02:57] <ndim> Otherwise... perhaps a standard like .lsm files contain adequated addresses, or a new standard for security management has to be created.
[03:47] <schweeb> lamont: all day every day is when I pay, heh... always tired
[03:57] <mdz> robertj: oh?  I haven't seen their background(s).  the Hoary preview background is an original creation, of course
[04:46] <zul> mdz: the ubuntuhardened kernel stuff im reading in the wiki is going to be kept seperate from what we have now correct?
[04:47] <robertj> mdz: yeah, It's been a while, but i have a Progeny box around here somewhere and their logo was kinda bubbly and galaxy-like
[04:50] <robertj> http://www.gudanglinux.or.id/gambar/progencybox100.jpg
[04:52] <daniels> http://overclockix.octeams.com/snapshot21.jpg
[04:52] <daniels> that's some serious rice there
[04:53] <zul> a little busy
[04:54] <zul> thats a pretty old screenshot 
[04:54] <zul> gkrelm says kernel 2.6.1
[04:54] <lamont> daniels: heh
[04:54] <mdz> zul: I haven't given it much thought, but it probably makes most sense for it to live in universe as a separate package
[04:55] <zul> mdz: yeah since there is a linux-hardened already in universe
[04:56] <mdz> zul: oh, there is?  I didn't realize
[04:56] <zul> yeah i think pitti is maintaining it
[04:56] <zul> or trying to
[05:01] <zul> anyways im heading to bed...night folks
[05:01] <lamont> night zul
[06:27] <fabbione> morning
[06:33] <mdz> fabbione: morning
[06:33] <fabbione> hey mdz
[06:33] <mdz> fabbione: are you ready to start the hoary kernel bug review? :-)
[06:34] <fabbione> mdz: i am already doing it
[06:35] <mdz> oh, I did not see traffic from you on ubuntu-bugs
[06:35] <fabbione> no because i am not writing in the bugs yet
[06:48] <lifeless> fabbione: did we end up putting fuse in the stock kernel ?
[06:48] <lifeless> fabbione: your patch worked perfectly.
[06:48] <fabbione> no because fuse is an external package.
[06:48] <fabbione> it's the external package that needs to be fixed
[06:49] <fabbione> not the kernel :)
[06:49] <fabbione> fuse -> universe -> unsupported -> if i will ever have the time :-)
[06:54] <lifeless> fuse-source is external, but I think the module is in the morton tree these days
[06:54] <lifeless> can I help?
[06:54] <fabbione> i dunno about -mm
[06:54] <fabbione> lifeless: just send me the patch again for the fuse source and i will upload it
[06:55] <fabbione> we can't add stuff at 3 weeks from release
[06:55] <lifeless> heh. the one in your p.u.c site ?
[06:55] <fabbione> not for hoary atleast
[06:55] <fabbione> is it still there?
[06:55] <fabbione> oh yeah
[06:55] <fabbione> i can do that :)
[06:55] <lifeless> it was that + a control tweak
[06:55] <lifeless> one second
[06:56] <fabbione> lifeless: yeah i know the control tweaks ;)
[06:56] <fabbione> mdz: do i have green light to upload fuse?
[06:56] <lifeless> yeah, just the kernel->linux in the .in
[06:56] <fabbione> mdz: it's a trivial bugfix
[06:57] <crimsun> (what version of fuse?)
[06:57] <fabbione> 1.3
[06:57] <crimsun> ah, thanks
[06:58] <lifeless> mdz: it lets the bazaar-fuse module work :)
[07:00] <fabbione> lifeless: i can't find the .in file you are talking about
[07:01] <lifeless> might be just control then
[07:01] <lifeless> I just grepped kernel-image in debian/
[07:01] <fabbione> Recommends: dpkg-dev, kernel-package
[07:02] <fabbione> is that in the modules/fuse ?
[07:02] <fabbione> AHH
[07:02] <fabbione> yes
[07:02] <fabbione> found it
[07:04] <fabbione> lifeless: it's up
[07:05] <fabbione> let me know if it works
[07:06] <mdz> fabbione: fuse is in universe, sure
[07:06] <mdz> sleep now
[07:07] <daniels> mdz: g'night
[07:08] <lifeless> thanks
[07:09] <fabbione> mdz: good night... btw please read the scroolback on u-k
[07:09] <fabbione> mdz: about that ABI check thingy
[07:18] <dilinger> abi check thingy?
[07:19] <fabbione> dilinger: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-kernel-2005-03-10.html
[07:19] <fabbione> dilinger: 04:45 ~
[07:20] <dilinger> hm
[07:37] <fabbione> lifeless: Accepted fuse 1.3-1ubuntu1 
[08:46] <fabbione> daniels: did you ever get around to check xinerama & xv ?
[08:48] <daniels> let me try now, my amd64's been offline for a bit
[08:48] <fabbione> ok
[08:48] <daniels> oh, frig
[08:48] <daniels> now I know why I didn't try it earlier
[08:48] <daniels> actually, no, I can play DVDs; nevermind
[08:49] <fabbione> i can reproduce it with anything i play
[08:49] <fabbione> even an evi
[08:49] <fabbione> avi
[08:49] <fabbione> or mpeh
[08:49] <fabbione> mpeG
[08:49] <daniels> yeah, but I don't have codecs for that on amd64
[08:49] <fabbione> they are all Horiz doubled
[08:49] <daniels> gotta dig out a DVD
[08:50] <fabbione> if you want i have very old avi around
[08:50] <fabbione> that shouldn't need any codec
[08:50] <fabbione> or at least the new ones
[08:50] <fabbione> come on halley! FLY
[08:51] <fabbione> jdub: ?
[08:51] <jdub> yo
[08:51] <fabbione> jdub: permission to upload new kernel
[08:52] <jdub> anything interesting beyond fixes discussed during preview meltdown?
[08:52] <fabbione> yes.. 
[08:53] <fabbione> faster build system, some fixes, new idiotify patch...
[08:53] <jdub> ha ha
[08:53] <amu> moin
[08:53] <jdub> fabbione: ok
[08:53] <jdub> hey amu
[08:53] <fabbione> jdub: ok thanks
[08:53] <jdub> amu: people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/hoary/
[08:54] <jdub> amu: grab the ubuntu-calendar packages there
[08:54] <jdub> amu: peek at the kde backgrounds dialogue ;)
[08:54] <amu> hey jdub 
[08:54] <amu> jdub: lemme try :)
[09:05] <amu> jdub: looks good, you didnt got those cool dragons yet?
[09:05] <jdub> heh, no, just did it for the ubuntu calendars for now
[09:05] <jdub> next step is to clean up the build system so we can use it for kubuntu and ubuntu calendars -> and more!
[09:09] <amu> Ah it is linked to the x releated :)    
[09:10] <pitti> Morning
[09:11] <fabbione> hey pitti
[09:11] <jdub> yo pitti 
[09:11] <pitti> fabbione: now that the preview is done, time for some photos? :-)
[09:11] <amu> arg related even 
[09:11] <pitti> fabbione: -> "galapagos preview"
[09:11] <pitti> Hi amu
[09:12] <amu> hi pitti 
[09:12] <fabbione> pitti: MEH! you did send me enough pile of dildo's that i need to work on
[09:13] <pitti> fabbione: but I already sorted, described, and named all the patches *sigh*
[09:13] <fabbione> pitti: they still need to be applied, compiled and tested....
[09:14] <pitti> sure
[09:14] <fabbione> anyway i am going out with 26 today to test other changes
[09:14] <fabbione> all your stuff is for 27
[09:14] <pitti> oh
[09:14] <pitti> ah, there will be another kernel?
[09:14] <fabbione> pitti: 2 or 3 probably before final
[09:14] <pitti> fabbione: I have an USB WLAN adapter here which uses an Atmel chipset, but is not recognized by default
[09:14] <fabbione> i did change some stuff in the build system that will allow us to build in less than 2384783743874837 hours
[09:14] <pitti> fabbione: yesterday I managed to compile an external driver with a little patching
[09:15] <pitti> fabbione: so today I wanted to try to write a little patch for the Ubuntu kernel to make it work
[09:15] <pitti> fabbione: hey cool, how is this possible to build faster?
[09:15] <Treenaks> pitti: optimize gcc ?
[09:15] <pitti> Treenaks: -O0 ?
[09:15] <fabbione> pitti: killing all the patch madness and actually forking the kernel build on SMP
[09:15] <pitti> "patch madness"?
[09:16] <fabbione> pitti: all the patch/unpatch at the beginning
[09:16] <pitti> fabbione: I thought the main reason why it takes so long is that we build all modules for n platforms
[09:16] <pitti> fabbione: hm, I never felt that the patching takes a considerable part of the build time
[09:16] <fabbione> when you have over 20 revisions.. it takes AGES
[09:16] <pitti> fabbione: but if it's faster, so much the better :-)
[09:16] <fabbione> pitti: and the fork on SMP will solve the module problems
[09:17] <fabbione> up to the point where we hit I/O bottleneck (ccache
[09:17] <pitti> nice
[09:27] <amu> someone knows about libsem-dev isnt it a hurd-only package?  
[09:42] <YokoZar> Hey, I need to get a package removed from Universe.  Who can do that?
[09:46] <amu> YokoZar: elmo is the right guy for it
[09:47] <dholbach> hellas!
[09:47] <YokoZar> Is he around ever?
[09:47] <YokoZar> Or do I need to wake up way too early? ;)
[09:48] <jdub> YokoZar: he is on UK time, so should be around soonish
[09:48] <amu> just ask 
[09:48] <jdub> YokoZar: probably best to mail ubuntu-devel and cc elmo
[09:49] <YokoZar> Thanks.  What's his email?
[09:49] <jdub> james.troup@ubuntu.com
[09:58] <dholbach> does anyone of you have trouble with his screen turning black after like 15 seconds (and no it's not the screensaver setting - they're reasonable)
[09:58] <Treenaks> what kind of video chip?
[09:58] <dholbach> nvidia
[09:59] <Treenaks> there you have it :)
[09:59] <fabbione> yes i did
[09:59] <fabbione> it's random
[09:59] <fabbione> and i couldn't track it
[09:59] <fabbione> + i am never away more than 10 secs
[09:59] <dholbach> hehe
[09:59] <fabbione> ADDICTION
[09:59] <dholbach> seems to be the solution
[09:59] <dholbach> work harder
[09:59] <dholbach> yesterday it didnt go black too :-)
[10:00] <dholbach> fabbione: i mean it's nice to have a system that's so worried about my monitor's state... but i have the feeling something was wrong
[10:00] <amu> ;) 
[10:01] <fabbione> it is wrong
[10:01] <dholbach> :-)
[10:01] <fabbione> but the solution is just to keep moving the mouse
[10:01] <fabbione> look at the bright side
[10:01] <fabbione> your hand will be extremely trained
[10:01] <fabbione> and it will stay warm
[10:01] <dholbach> hahaha
[10:01] <fabbione> and due to no blank screen.. you can also get a very good amount of extra radiations
[10:02] <fabbione> in 20/30 minutes you will die of cancer
[10:02] <fabbione> and you can blame somebody else
[10:02] <torkel> dholbach: I have seen it on my laptop too, with an ati chip
[10:02] <dholbach> fabbione: you're so funny :-)
[10:03] <Treenaks> dholbach: sit-down comedy
[10:03] <fabbione> this song is so funny..
[10:03] <fabbione> Dragostea Din Tea
[10:04] <fabbione> it's in some weird lang
[10:04] <fabbione> and it seems to say:
[10:04] <fabbione> NUMA WAY YEY
[10:04] <dud-> howdy
[10:04] <fabbione> punz punz... MORE NUMA WAY YEY
[10:04] <dud-> is there a  libapache-mod-php4 in hoary?
[10:04] <jdub> yes
[10:04] <pitti> dud-: only in universe
[10:04] <dud-> ok
[10:04] <pitti> dud-: we generally only support Apache 2
[10:04] <pitti> dud-: thus, libapache2-mod-php4
[10:04] <dud-> yeah
[10:04] <Treenaks> fabbione: I almost didn't survive listening to that song last year!
[10:05] <dud-> I was sorta hoping I could still use apache1.3
[10:05] <fabbione> Treenaks: i just found it.. i am not a big fan of disco... not to listen to it at home at least
[10:05] <dud-> but I guess It's time to learn the apache2 config
[10:05] <pitti> dud-: This old crack should die^W^W^W^Wit is generally deprecated :-)
[10:05] <fabbione> dud-: the config files are almost the same
[10:06] <pitti> dud-: believe me, configuring the new apache2 packages is a _lot_ more fun
[10:06] <fabbione> dud-: and you won't have big problems migrating
[10:06] <Treenaks> fabbione: un-find it then.. it'll eat your brain
[10:06] <dud-> ok
[10:06] <dud-> even with mod_ssl and all of that?
[10:06] <pitti> dud-: syntax is the same, and not many keywords actually changed
[10:06] <fabbione> Treenaks: it already did :-)
[10:06] <fabbione> dud-: yes
[10:06] <dud-> cool
[10:06] <jdub> apache2 is love
[10:06] <dud-> I've been adding on to my apache1.3 conf for a few years
[10:06] <fabbione> dud-: trust me... go for a2
[10:06] <pitti> apache2 is supported
[10:06] <dud-> sorta have a small attachent to it
[10:07] <Treenaks> dud-: sentimental attachment?
[10:07] <dud-> yeah
[10:07] <dud-> it's gonna be sad to see it go
[10:07] <fabbione> dud-: yeah so do I
[10:07] <dud-> hahaha
[10:07] <fabbione> but i am not sad...
[10:07] <pitti> dud-: it doesn't "go", it advances :-)
[10:07] <dud-> that and my samba conf file
[10:07] <dud-> and I have me some samba questions too
[10:07] <fabbione> i am just tired of people reporting to me that a1.3 crashes with php
[10:07] <quarupt> when will hoary have beter AMD64 support?
[10:07] <dud-> but those can go in the other channel
[10:07] <quarupt> maybe built in chroot?
[10:08] <Treenaks> fabbione: a2 crashes with php, too
[10:08] <fabbione> Treenaks: whatever.. i don't maintain a2 :-)
[10:08] <fabbione> even if i think i am still listed as Uploader
[10:08] <dud-> I don't know how all the package manager stuff works, but a mt-daapd package would be awesome
[10:10] <jdub> dud-: perhaps add to the MOTU list on the wiki
[10:10] <dud-> ok
[10:10] <dud-> I'm new to ubuntu
[10:10] <dud-> I ran debian for about 8 years
[10:10] <dud-> just installed ubuntu 3 days ago
[10:11] <jdub> whiprush: HAPPY BIRTHDAY WHIPPERS!
[10:11] <dholbach> whiprush: WOOHOO! Happy Birthday!
[10:12] <dholbach> jdub: i dont quite know, what you where talking about... concerning the MOTU list?
[10:12] <quarupt> wining in AMD64 sux
[10:13] <jdub> dholbach: adding suggestions to MOTU packages
[10:13] <YokoZar> quarupt: wining?
[10:13] <quarupt> "Winie"ing
[10:14] <quarupt> guess i need to setup a chroot enviroment
[10:14] <YokoZar> Well, I'll work on the AMD64 Wine package as soon as I get an AMD64 computer, heh
[10:14] <quarupt> maybe VM'n x86 hoary would be easier
[10:14] <quarupt> lol
[10:14] <ajmitch> jdub: thanks :)
[10:14] <YokoZar> (I make the Ubuntu packages at winehq.org)  But for now I hear that almost no one has gotten amd64 to work on Wine, so it's a longer term project, heh
[10:15] <quarupt> YokoZar, your on the wine dev team?
[10:15] <YokoZar> Yeah.  I'm the packager and documentation writer
[10:15] <jordi> morning mpt_london 
[10:15] <quarupt> right on
[10:15] <YokoZar> I'm also playing around with porting aps with winelib
[10:15] <YokoZar> One of these days there will be an eMule package in Ubuntu
[10:16] <YokoZar> And it will run on ppc via winelib
[10:16] <fabbione> pitti: 6749.. why is it assigned to me? is Herbert aware of it?
[10:16] <quarupt> how about apps, that run standalone from wine, that woulkd be cool
[10:16] <quarupt> if it was possible i dunno
[10:16] <quarupt> someway to bind wine with the program, just so it runs as stand alone
[10:16] <fabbione> quarupt: please these topics are more for #ubuntu
[10:16] <YokoZar> It's entirely possible, just no one's done it.  And you have to get them to compile with winelib to make them run on all arches
[10:16] <quarupt> or maybe for #wine
[10:17] <quarupt> sorry
[10:17] <YokoZar> Yeah I guess so.  Anyway the point is I'll be doing more wine package work later, and an amd64 version may come out in a way similar to the OpenOffice ones.
[10:17] <dud-> is there a quick way of removing apache from my rc.blah directories?
[10:18] <amu> dud-: update-rc.d
[10:18] <dud-> ok
[10:18] <dud-> I'll read up on it
[10:20] <quarupt> So how close are we to seeing Hoary final release?
[10:20] <fabbione> 3 weeks more or less
[10:21] <sivang> morning all
[10:21] <dud-> ok apache2 error, "Call to undefined function: mysql_pconnect()"
[10:21] <thom> that's a php error
[10:22] <quarupt> wow, thats close, whats after Hoary, any plans?
[10:22] <dholbach> quarupt: world domination
[10:22] <quarupt> lol
[10:23] <quarupt> But there are plans for another release after Hoary right?
[10:23] <dholbach> quarupt: it must be on the wiki somewhere
[10:23] <mjg59> Does Hoary have NTFS resize support in the installer?
[10:23] <dud-> k
[10:24] <quarupt> Is anyone doing more work on the installers, i know allot of users want more opions, in the installer, maybe a better package seletcion process?
[10:25] <fabbione> quarupt: most of these questions are documented in the wiki/FAQ. please check #ubuntu topix
[10:25] <fabbione> topic even
[10:26] <quarupt> wtf
[10:26] <quarupt> why cant i just ask in here? its dead anyways
[10:26] <quarupt> I like to talk to the developers
[10:27] <quarupt> and no theres nothing in wiki about adding more package selection in the installer
[10:28] <quarupt> Lets not have a community like debian
[10:28] <quarupt> this is the main reason i got away from debian, cause there community is full of grouchy guru's
[10:29] <daniels> quarupt: one of the problems, though, is that we all live on different timezones, and we're a relatively small team
[10:29] <daniels> so I rely on looking through the #ubuntu-devel scrollback while I've been asleep/eating/whatever to find out what's been going on that I need to know about
[10:29] <quarupt> i think most are PST
[10:29] <daniels> so keeping it as uncluttered as possible is good :)
[10:30] <daniels> er, not really ... there's me on AEST, other people on UTC, CET, PST, EST, MST
[10:30] <daniels> we really do span every timezone
[10:30] <quarupt> so just increase your IRC clients scrollback buffer size to like 4GB
[10:30] <daniels> to the point where every development meeting, someone gets shafted because of the timezones (tonight it's my turn -- 4am)
[10:30] <daniels> well yeah, it's already two days, but the point is if I have to spend an hour reading the scrollback, it's just harder to get stuff done.  anyway, sleep time now.
[10:31] <quarupt> lol, dont worry, the community will grow
[10:31] <dholbach> good night daniels 
[10:32] <fabbione> quarupt: all of us are also on #ubuntu. keep this chan uncluttered please
[10:32] <quarupt> if  this is the way it is to be, why not lock the chan and let only developers in?
[10:33] <pitti> fabbione: I will handle #6749 with Herbert
[10:33] <fabbione> because we want people to be able to partecipate. but up to now you asked only questions that are already answered in wiki and FAQ. Also note that i kindly asked you to be on topic. I didn't say you have to shut up
[10:34] <fabbione> pitti: thanks
[10:34] <quarupt> and i kindly told you that the installer stuff wasnt on wiki
[10:36] <fabbione> quarupt: pkg selection is handled via ubuntu-devel mailing list -> seed management and developers approval. it's all on the wiki
[10:36] <quarupt> Not future plans
[10:37] <fabbione> you can make future plans yourself and it will be evaluated :-)
[10:37] <fabbione> the wiki is open to everybody
[10:37] <fabbione> if you have ideas just stick them there
[10:40] <quarupt> the final release is 3 weeks away im sure they allready have decided, i was asking, what they decided
[10:41] <thom> quarupt: please look at the release schedule on the wiki; we've been in feature freeze for a *long* time, the next month is bug fixing only
[10:41] <quarupt> oh okay thanks
[10:42] <torkel> quarupt: I guess the guys are dead busy with hoary to be able to release it on time, so that they don't have much time thinking of future plans currently
[10:45] <HiddenWolf> torkel; dead on
[10:45] <pitti> Morning sabdfl 
[10:46] <sabdfl> morning pitti & co
[10:47] <mpt_london> Good morning jordi
[10:47] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[10:47] <dud-> ok
[10:48] <dud-> one quick apache 2 upgrade question because the guys in #apache are dead, how would I fix this error" irtualHost _default_:443 -- mixing * ports and non-* ports with a NameVirtualHost address is not supported, proceeding with undefined results"
[10:49] <thom> your NameVirtualHost line is "NameVirtualHost xxx.x.x.x" but you have "VirtualHost xxx.x.x.x:yy" lines, choose one form and stick with it
[10:50] <HiddenWolf> dud-: that's really #ubuntu stuff
[10:50] <dud-> ok
[10:50] <dud-> thanks
[10:50] <dud-> I have a bad habbit of asking in the dev channels
[10:50] <dud-> because the people in them actually know their stuff
[10:51] <jordi> that's abusing the -dev channel though :)
[10:51] <dud-> true
[10:52] <dud-> it won't happen agai
[10:52] <dud-> n
[10:55] <HiddenWolf> dud-: I don't blaim you, I have the same tendency, but this is a busy time. stressed-out devs tend to be touchy. ;)
[10:57] <haggai> elmo: what's up?
[10:58] <sabdfl> haggai: elmo's likely still en route to the data center
[10:58] <sabdfl> he says that machine is up and running for you guys
[10:58] <m_tthew> you mean he ever leaves it?
[10:58] <Treenaks> sabdfl: did the servers melt?
[10:59] <sabdfl> Treenaks: no, the flock just needs constant care
[10:59] <sabdfl> it's growing
[10:59] <sabdfl> we must be 40+ servers now
[10:59] <dud-> yeah, I understand HiddenWolf
[10:59] <dud-> with the freeze and all
[11:03] <thom> sabdfl: 57
[11:03] <sabdfl> 57 channels and... 
[11:05] <thom> #57 servers, in the racks, and if one little server, should accidentally crash
[11:06] <fabbione> thom: since you have so many toys.. send me concordia :)
[11:07] <thom> fabbione: hah, no. you can have a dell :P
[11:07] <fabbione> ahah
[11:07] <fabbione> ok
[11:07] <fabbione> send me a dell :)
[11:08] <fabbione> i am cheap today
[11:09] <Mithrandir> haggai: ooo2 has conflicting build-deps.
[11:09] <pitti> Kamion: will it affect the installer in any way if I modify base-files?
[11:09] <Mithrandir> my machine is still pushing about 1.3MB/sec and has pushed ~66GB of ISOs since yesterday
[11:10] <sabdfl> ..there'll be thombot, bleeding, underneath the racks
[11:10] <mjg59> People have seen http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21724 ?
[11:11] <Treenaks> mjg59: Finally! I can run Gnome 2.10 on my deskto pat work...
[11:11] <Treenaks> mjg59: (have to run SuSE here)
[11:11] <Kamion> pitti: in what way?
[11:12] <Treenaks> mjg59: it's not very special in other ways, is it?
[11:12] <pitti> Kamion: #7449, I would like to kill the "staff" group for /usr/local
[11:12] <thom> sabdfl: *g*
[11:12] <mjg59> Treenaks: Well, Pavel's been talking about it having improved ACPI support
[11:12] <pitti> Kamion: I already discussed this with mdz a while ago
[11:12] <Kamion> urgh, I find the staff group useful
[11:12] <mjg59> I think we've upped the stakes in that respect :)
[11:12] <Kamion> yeah, I know it's root-equivalent
[11:12] <pitti> Kamion: indeed?
[11:12] <pitti> hmm
[11:13] <pitti> Kamion: I mean, you indeed think it is useful? I never used it...
[11:13] <Kamion> but I can see why you'd want to kill it, so don't let me stop you
[11:13] <Kamion> I can always change it locally; it's /usr/local after all :)
[11:13] <pitti> Kamion: oh, I always like to listen to your advice :-)
[11:13] <Kamion> nah, I think you're right to change it by default
[11:13] <pitti> Kamion: do you think we should leave staff by default?
[11:13] <pitti> ok
[11:14] <fabbione> mjg59: when it works....
[11:14] <Kamion> I don't see how it would affect the installer in any way
[11:14] <pitti> Kamion: do you need any installer adaptions for a changed package?
[11:14] <pitti> ok
[11:14] <mjg59> fabbione: Hah. Yes.
[11:14] <Kamion> pitti: only rarely
[11:15] <fabbione> thom, elmo: any chance to get distcc working on the porting boxes?
[11:15] <fabbione> perhaps combined with the buildds ?
[11:15] <pitti> Kamion: What do you think about /home and /var/local?
[11:16] <pitti> Kamion: I think the latter can stay as group staff, but maybe we should protect /home
[11:16] <pitti> Kamion: although, over NFS you can already modify /home arbitrarily
[11:16] <Kamion> pitti: I don't see a need to protect /home in that way
[11:16] <pitti> yes, right
[11:16] <pitti> Kamion: the motivation for /usr/local is changing over NFS, AFAICS
[11:16] <Kamion> programs should use the home directory in the password database rather than looking up /home/*
[11:16] <m_tthew> kk
[11:16] <pitti> Kamion: ("any user but root")
[11:17] <sivang> bon jour seb128 
[11:17] <jordi> mr seb128 
[11:17] <seb128> hi
[11:17] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[11:17] <Kamion> pitti: 'sudo chgrp staff /usr/local' is easy enough if that use case is in effect
[11:18] <Kamion> as long as we respect that change
[11:18] <pitti> Kamion: hmm, I don't want to change existing installations anyway
[11:18] <pitti> Kamion: just new installations
[11:18] <pitti> we can't know whether an admin changed the permissions on purpose
[11:25] <Kamion> pitti: 'k
[11:25] <Kamion> seems sensible
[11:25] <pitti> Kamion: btw, root:staff /home does not really make sense either
[11:26] <pitti> Kamion: as group staff you cannot chmod/chown home directories
[11:27] <pitti> Kamion: so I'm inclined to change it to root:root for new installs, too
[11:27] <GheRivero> res
[11:30] <dholbach> hai seb128!
[11:31] <mvo> hey seb128 
[11:31] <dholbach> hai mvo!
[11:32] <seb128> hi everybody
[11:32] <mvo> seb128: has metacity changed recently? I have focus follow mouse with autoraise and it now send gksudo in the background when my mouse is over another window. this is anoying when it grabs my screen :)
[11:32] <mvo> hey dholbach 
[11:33] <pitti> haggai: is there any chance to fix apt-proxy-import for hoary?
[11:34] <seb128> mvo: nop, the code is the same for some weeks
[11:34] <seb128> mvo: perhaps the new gksu does something different ? Can you try with 1.2.3 ?
[11:35] <pitti> mvo: this "new windows pop up in the background" bug is actually very old, isn't it?
[11:35] <mvo> pitti: don't think so. at least it was fixed for a while. I haven't noticed it since a long time
[11:35] <thom> aaargh
[11:36] <pitti> mvo: I mostly notice it with gaim
[11:36] <thom> i hate hotplugs freaking patch systme
[11:36] <pitti> mvo: sometimes new windows appear at the front, sometimes I can't see them
[11:36] <mvo> pitti: I think we are talking about different problems. gksudo comes up in the foreground and then goes to the background (because of autoraise). it really shouldn't :)
[11:36] <pitti> mvo: oh, ok
[11:36] <mvo> 'cause it graped my mouse :)
[11:37] <pitti> grabbed?
[11:37] <mvo> that's what I wanted to say, yes
[11:38] <seb128> pitti: windows get on the top of screen if you have not used something else .. if you have clicked on an another window it considers that you are using it and doesn't stole the focus
[11:39] <pitti> I was afraid that it was a feature :-)
[11:39] <haggai> sabdfl: thanks
[11:40] <haggai> Mithrandir: ouch, must have changed recently
[11:40] <mvo> seb128: it looks like it's gksudos fault, I have a idea how to fix it, let's see ...
[11:40] <haggai> pitti: could be possible
[11:41] <seb128> mvo: k, feel free to close #7432 if you fix it :)
[11:41] <fabbione> Kamion: i have one problem with how kernel-wedge calculates modules dependencies
[11:41] <fabbione> Kamion: do you have time to help me?
[11:41] <Mithrandir> haggai: e-d-s needs heimdal-kerberos, while kdelibs4-dev wants MIT kerberos
[11:41] <seb128> this discussion again ?
[11:42] <thom> seb128: for OOo this time
[11:42] <Kamion> pitti: yup
[11:42] <mvo> seb128: will do :) matt assigned me a similar one too
[11:42] <Kamion> pitti: makes sense
[11:42] <Kamion> fabbione: sure
[11:43] <fabbione> Kamion: cool. on ia64 there is the mbcache module that is shared between ext2 and ext3 udeb. The problem is that k-w copies it in both udebs and fails on find-dups
[11:43] <Mithrandir> seb128: I don't care which works, but if I'm going to look at how feasible it is to get ooo2 working, it would be nice if it actually was _possible_ to build it. :)
[11:43] <fabbione> Kamion: i did try adding a fs-common-mods
[11:43] <fabbione> Kamion: now it is copied to all 3
[11:43] <fabbione> Kamion: how can i tell k-w that i want it only in fs-common and not in ext2/ext3?
[11:43] <Kamion> fabbione: make ext2 and ext3 depend on fs-common
[11:44] <Kamion> fabbione: see package-list
[11:44] <fabbione> Kamion: at this stage ext2 and ext3 are symlinks to what is in k-w
[11:44] <fabbione> Kamion: is that enough?
[11:44] <Kamion> yes, you can override their dependencies
[11:44] <fabbione> ok
[11:44] <fabbione> thanks
[11:44] <seb128> Mithrandir: OOo uses both eds and kde ?
[11:44] <Mithrandir> seb128: ooo2 does, yes.
[11:44] <Mithrandir> ooo2 will be _fun_ to get into testing in Debian
[11:44] <Kamion> fabbione: look at powerpc/package-list; basically the same theory
[11:45] <Kamion> fabbione: but look up what the dependencies of ext2-modules and ext3-modules are in kernel-wedge
[11:46] <seb128> Mithrandir: I can try to switch eds and friends to mit krb today if you want
[11:46] <Amaranth> OOo using eds and KDE scares me
[11:47] <Mithrandir> seb128: yes please.
[11:47] <Amaranth> hey, do you guys make packages and install those when you are working on things or compile and make install?
[11:47] <Mithrandir> Amaranth: it's probably just different GUI frontends and integration with the calendar and stuff
[11:48] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks.. checking
[11:48] <Amaranth> and waits...
[11:48] <Amaranth> oh, i guess writer wouldn't use eds
[11:49] <mvo> ping doko
[11:49] <Mithrandir> Amaranth: I make packages for stuff I write myself, yes.
[11:49] <Amaranth> hrm, what part of OOo2 would need eds?
[11:50] <Amaranth> Mithrandir: I mean if you're working on fixing a bug or something. Do you make the fix and create a package or just do a regular install?
[11:50] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks! that did it :-)
[11:51] <seb128> openoffice.org2-evolution needs eds I think
[11:51] <fabbione> Kamion: the Depends: in package-list is a full override or is it parsed to add extra depends?
[11:51] <Mithrandir> Amaranth: I can't remember the last time I ran make install
[11:54] <Amaranth> seb128: hehe, i'd hope so. but where in the OOo2 UI do you see calendaring?
[11:54] <Amaranth> the only thing i can think of would be a mail merge from your evolution contacts list
[11:54] <Mithrandir> Amaranth: I was just guessing on why it would use e-d-s, I wasn't giving any authorative answer
[11:55] <seb128>  This package allows OpenOffice.org to access Evolution 2 address books.
[11:55] <seb128> from the description
[11:55] <Amaranth> *headdesk*
[11:57] <mjg59> Hmm.
[11:58] <fabbione> Kamion: n/m.. it's a full override :-)
[11:58] <mjg59> At the end of first stage install, the machine has hung rather than reboot
[11:58] <Amaranth> did gtk2-engines-clearlooks get into the live cd?
[11:58] <mjg59> Anyone seen that before?
[11:59] <fabbione> mjg59: it must be an ACPI problem :)
[11:59] <mjg59> fabbione: Eez ACPI boog?
[11:59] <fabbione> mjg59: probably :)
[11:59] <mjg59> It probably is, too. Hrmph.
[12:00] <mjg59> Oh, I'm very impressed with the NTFS resize support
[12:00] <jdub> mjg59: yeah?
[12:00] <mjg59> It just works
[12:01] <pitti> btw, ISTR that I already saw "Hibernate computer" in the logout dialog, mostly at the live CD
[12:01] <pitti> however, I don't see this on hoary/preview installs, any idea?
[12:01] <pitti> this is supposed to be swsups, right?
[12:02] <mjg59> Yeah
[12:02] <pitti> swsusp, even
[12:02] <mjg59> The logout dialog? There's no support for that to work, sadly
[12:02] <pitti> mjg59: why does it appear at the live CD then?
[12:02] <pitti> seb128: ^ 
[12:02] <mjg59> pitti: Dunno
[12:02] <pitti> hm, okay
[12:03] <mjg59> I've never actually booted the liveCD...
[12:03] <mjg59> bicyclerepair?
[12:03] <mjg59> Great name
[12:06] <pitti> mjg59: nearly as descriptive as "foobar" :-)
[12:07] <thom> so, is there any valid reason why a desktop would want to hibernate?
[12:07] <pitti> thom: yes, there is, but actually I'm talking about my laptop
[12:07] <pitti> thom: usually I switch off my box before I go to bed, but with swsusp the boot could be much faster
[12:09] <seb128> pitti: hibernate and sleep are displayed according to the /usr/sbin/pmi query <action> value
[12:09] <mjg59> seb128: In the logout dialogue? Or in gdm?
[12:09] <seb128> both
[12:09] <pitti> logout
[12:09] <jdub> thom: yeah, totally
[12:09] <seb128> the logout dialog ask the actions to gdm with gdmflexiserver
[12:10] <jdub> thom: i hibernate windows xp when i'm not using it
[12:10] <jdub> thom: and i'd love to hibernate and switch off at night
[12:11] <Kamion> fabbione: yep, full override
[12:11] <mjg59> seb128: Oh, you managed to make it work with flexiserver?
[12:11] <mjg59> Does it still cause a logout?
[12:11] <Kamion> fabbione: well, sort of :)
[12:11] <seb128> mjg59: yep, I've hacked gdm to add a new action that doesn't wait to get to the gdm screen
[12:11] <Kamion> fabbione: funny things happen with Provides and stuff
[12:11] <pitti> mjg59: for me it causes ppc sleep, but of course no wakeup (doesn't work in iBook G4)
[12:12] <jdub> seb128: let me know what i need to add in the theme
[12:12] <mjg59> pitti: It does work on ibook G4s, it just doesn't work on /your/ one
[12:12] <mjg59> Which is a bit confusing
[12:12] <mjg59> pitti: Actually, could you file a bug about that?
[12:12] <pitti> sure :-)
[12:12] <pitti> mjg59: we already tried to debug this, is there anything I can include in the report?
[12:13] <Kamion> thom: my amd64 desktop is central heating for my room, as well as white noise generation
[12:13] <seb128> jdub: about what ? hibernate/sleep ?
[12:13] <thom> Kamion: heh
[12:13] <Kamion> thom: in summer or when I actually want to sleep, hibernation would make a lot of sense
[12:13] <jdub> seb128: yeah
[12:13] <mjg59> pitti: dmesg, /proc/cpuinfo for now. There's a couple of things to test - can you remember if we tried with init=/bin/bash ?
[12:13] <thom> ia64 does that here; i can sucessfully sleep with 5 machines on in my bedroom
[12:13] <pitti> mjg59: I think we didn't; I'll do
[12:14] <pitti> mjg59: we mostly tried to enable/disable frame buffer and such
[12:14] <mjg59> Yeah
[12:14] <mjg59> benh suggested it might be an AGP issue
[12:15] <seb128> jdub: need to have a look, I've hacked the action for gdmflexiserver for the moment. gdm has a suspend action, I need to hack a bit to get hibernate too, I'll let you know
[12:15] <jdub> seb128: cool, thanks
[12:15] <seb128> np
[12:17] <seb128> jdub: are you ok with a switch from heimdal-dev to libkrb5-dev for eds and friends now ?
[12:17] <pitti> mjg59: started with /bin/bash, but since pbbuttonsd isn't running, what was the command to put it to sleep?
[12:17] <jdub> seb128: that's a Q for mdz
[12:17] <mjg59> pitti: Ugh. Good question. Just start pbbuttonsd? :)
[12:17] <seb128> jdub: k
[12:17] <mjg59> You may need to mount /proc first
[12:17] <mjg59> Hm. The sensitivity on this synaptics pad seems a bit high.
[12:17] <pitti> /dev/pmu doesn't exist
[12:17] <pitti> bah
[12:18] <mjg59> Ah. Heh.
[12:18] <mjg59> Start udev?
[12:18] <mjg59> (after mounting /sys)
[12:18] <dholbach> hellas dredg 
[12:21] <pitti> mjg59: no luck, udev's init script doesn't work (no /dev/null) and starting udevd and udevstart does not give any devices
[12:21] <mjg59> pitti: Bah.
[12:21] <pitti> mjg59: /dev/ and /.dev are both empty
[12:22] <mjg59> pitti: Can you find the major/minor for pmu and create it manually?
[12:22] <mjg59> Ok. Clean preview install. Logout/hibernate suspended to disk and then resumed happily.
[12:22] <mjg59> The new background picture is quite nice
[12:23] <mjg59> Gah. Yes, the machine hangs when attempting reboot, but halts correctly.
[12:24] <mjg59> ACPI BOOG
[12:24] <mjg59> My christ, it boots fast.
[12:25] <thom> mjg59: so my X40 will only suspend/resume once. then i have to reboot before it'll work again
[12:25] <mjg59> thom: Seriously? Argh.
[12:25] <thom> seriously
[12:25] <Mithrandir> thom: how about hibernate?
[12:25] <thom> i'll try it again with a clean hoary install
[12:25] <mjg59> thom: Using vesafb?
[12:25] <thom> Mithrandir: same deal
[12:25] <mjg59> Feck. It's probably AGP.
[12:25] <Mithrandir> thom: weird.  WFM.
[12:25] <jdub> Kamion: what's your opinion on supportability of snort?
[12:25] <mjg59> I wonder why mine doesn't behave like that.
[12:26] <mjg59> So.
[12:26] <mjg59> HP nc6120. Installs fine, hibernates out of the box, does ACPI suspend/resume once it's enabled.
[12:26] <mjg59> This is unbelievably sweet.
[12:26] <pitti> mjg59: hey, resuming works with init=/bin/bash
[12:26] <mjg59> pitti: Rock
[12:26] <pitti> mjg59: YOU ROCK
[12:26] <thom> mjg59: nice.
[12:26] <mjg59> Now figure out which module stops it working :)
[12:27] <Keybuk> mjg59: yeah, I've heard the new HPs all "just work"
[12:27] <pitti> mjg59: now I only have to find out what is stopping it
[12:27] <pitti> yeah :-)
[12:27] <Keybuk> that was when Istarted looking at the nc4200
[12:27] <thom> mjg59: pretty much default kernel arguments, acpi_sleep=s3_bios, elevator=cfq and that's it
[12:27] <mjg59> thom: lose acpi_sleep=s3_bios
[12:27] <mjg59> It's not needed with Hoary
[12:27] <fabbione> Kamion: no plan to use Provides at all
[12:28] <thom> when did that happen?
[12:28] <mjg59> When we started using vbetool
[12:28] <thom> ah, arse
[12:28] <mjg59> This is all SO MUCH ROCK.
[12:29] <mjg59> Now I just need to figure out why reboot hangs.
[12:30] <mjg59> Volume hotkeys work after configuration
[12:32] <mjg59> Ah. Sod.
[12:32] <Kamion> jdub: I don't know anything about snort, sorry
[12:32] <jdub> aha
[12:32] <mjg59> ACPI stops working after the first lidswitch press. No more interrupts.
[12:32] <jdub> BLACK MARK
[12:32] <jdub> anyone care to espouse opinions, good or bad, on snort?
[12:32] <jdub> with regards to supportability :)
[12:33] <elmo> it's one of these packages with volatile data (i.e. the signatures) that need updating regularly
[12:33] <elmo> and like ethereal it's security history isn't great
[12:34] <elmo> (which is actually far worse, since it's a daemon, and ethereal is something you don't generally leave running indefinitely)
[12:35] <sladen> elmo: so, they want splitting;  one to capture and one to analyse---the second on which in turn relies on a package of signatures?
[12:35] <elmo> sladen: probably yea
[12:37] <mjg59> Damnit. Very broken ACPI.
[12:37] <mjg59> It's now firing off hundreds of interrupts a second.
[12:38] <fabbione> dude... this is NOT stuff i want to hear from you at 3 weeks from release
[12:39] <mjg59> fabbione: It works fine on other machines, just not this one
[12:39] <mjg59> I'll try to track it down. It's an interrupt issue, by the looks of it.
[12:39] <fabbione> i don't think you are the only one with that specific machine....
[12:40] <jdub> elmo: thanks
[12:40] <jdub> elmo: would you lean towards yes or no?
[12:40] <ajmitch> elmo: sync gnue-common, gnue-appserver, gnue-forms please :)
[12:41] <jdub> ajmitch: dude, you so love the weird tech ;)
[12:41] <mjg59> So, two issues: hang on reboot, problems with acpi interrupt
[12:41] <ajmitch> jdub: you know what it is? :)
[12:41] <elmo> jdub: personally - no
[12:43] <elmo> [NOT Updating - Modified]  gnue-common_0.5.13-1ubuntu1 (vs 0.5.14-1)
[12:43] <elmo> ajmitch: ok to override ?
[12:43] <ajmitch> yes
[12:43] <ajmitch> I put the changes in 0.5.14
[12:44] <elmo> ajmitch: all done
[12:44] <ajmitch> thanks
[12:45] <ajmitch> elmo: can you sync pnet, pnet-assemblies, pnetc too? :)
[12:46] <ajmitch> jdub: I seem to collect packages that nobody really wants..
[12:47] <HiddenWolf> Does anyone have any idea why it could be that during boot the ....ok is printed on a new line for me?
[12:50] <elmo> ajmitch: done
[12:50] <ajmitch> thankyou
[12:53] <ogra> elmo: did crimsun already talk to you ? he seems to have problems with uploading
[12:53] <thom> mjg59: still can only suspend once without acpi_sleep set
[12:53] <elmo> ogra: hmm, don't think so - I got a msg from wasabi, but I assume that's someone else
[12:54] <pitti> mjg59: okay, I debugged this a bit
[12:54] <ogra> elmo: crimsun was approved fo uploading about 6 weeks ago, could you look if his account is set for uploading ? 
[12:54] <pitti> mjg59: it works with single user mode, and I can even load the radeon module
[12:55] <pitti> mjg59: but as soon as I start X, and the radeon module actualyl gets used, it doesn't resume correctly any more
[12:55] <pitti> mjg59: so "radeon" really seems to be the culprit
[12:55] <elmo> ogra: ok, will check in a bit
[12:56] <ogra> elmo: great, thanks :)
[12:57] <mjg59> pitti: Ok, cool. So it's probably some DRI/AGP issue.
[12:58] <mjg59> Can you file a bug and I'll speak to benh about it?
[12:58] <pitti> mjg59: sure, thanks
[01:02] <pitti> mjg59: ROCK! I disabled the dri and glx modules from xorg.conf, and now it works
[01:03] <pitti> mjg59: I don't need 3D on the laptop, so I can now actually use suspend
[01:03] <pitti> mjg59: I include this into the bug report
[01:03] <pitti> mjg59: any graphic card-specific debug info I could include?
[01:04] <mjg59> pitti: Not really, what you have sounds great
[01:05] <jdub> ajmitch: gnue? yeah :)
[01:08] <Kamion> whoa, archive-copier bug just occurred to me
[01:08] <Kamion> I bet that, on an installation from DVD, it will copy the entire contents of main onto the hard disk
[01:08] <pitti> argh
[01:08] <Kamion> right, time to fake up an ubuntu-ship task I think
[01:09] <Kamion> oh, and archive-copier probably won't work properly on kubuntu, hmm
[01:09] <thom> Kamion: OW
[01:10] <YokoZar> elmo: you here?
[01:11] <YokoZar> elmo: I sent out a mail to ubuntu-devel about removing winesetuptk, please do so :)
[01:11] <dholbach> seb128: fixed and uploaded gdesklets and drivel
[01:18] <Keybuk> *sigh* at bts
[01:18] <Keybuk> the worst thing is, I know Ubuntu's bugzilla is about to notice my severity change and spam me again with the same bug
[01:23] <fabbione> elmo: are you still around?
[01:23] <seb128> dholbach: cool
[01:24] <elmo> fabbione: yes
[01:24] <elmo> YokoZar: is it urgent?
[01:25] <fabbione> elmo: mind to give a check to the buildds that are munging the kernel??
[01:25] <fabbione> elmo: i did a few changes and i am kinda curious to see how they are going...
[01:25] <fabbione> specially compiling with -j200 on buildd...
[01:26] <elmo> err, seriously?
[01:26] <fabbione> ahahha
[01:26] <fabbione> got you
[01:26] <fabbione> no... only Ncup * 2
[01:26] <fabbione> Ncpu's * 2
[01:26] <pitti> fabbione: is inotify now enabled again by default?
[01:26] <fabbione> pitti: no
[01:26] <fabbione> it still crashes on me
[01:26] <fabbione> with one difference
[01:26] <fabbione> at the second unplug, instead of the first
[01:26] <pitti> fabbione: just read about the new version on u-changes, that's why I'm asking
[01:27] <fabbione> elmo: i didn
[01:27] <fabbione> elmo: i didn't cry :-)
[01:27] <fabbione> elmo: i am really curious
[01:27] <elmo> i386 is working
[01:28] <mjg59> fabbione: I've sorted the reboot problem
[01:28] <fabbione> cool
[01:28] <fabbione> mjg59: too late.. -26 is up 
[01:28] <mjg59> It's going to need a machine-specific dmi quirk
[01:28] <elmo> our powerpc buildds are running UP kernels, so they won't be affected
[01:28] <elmo> and our ia64 are single proc anyway
[01:28] <fabbione> elmo: it will still go * 2
[01:28] <YokoZar> elmo: urgent, no.  But it would be nice to take care of it before people start wondering why Wine is being difficult
[01:28] <fabbione> elmo: it gains a lot on ccache if the code is cached already (as it should be)
[01:29] <fabbione> mjg59: /j #u-kernel
[01:29] <fabbione> and pester the rest of the team there
[01:29] <fabbione> i am off for a few hours.. gotta rest a bit and do some hw shopping
[01:29] <pitti> fabbione: new CD burner? :-)
[01:29] <jdub> http://lwn.net/Articles/127141/
[01:29] <fabbione> elmo: thanks btw :-)
[01:30] <jdub> nice comments
[01:30] <fabbione> pitti: DVD burner.. i have a CD
[01:30] <elmo> fabbione: are you explicitly calling ccache?
[01:30] <pitti> fabbione: yes, that's what I meant
[01:30] <pitti> fabbione: have fun, and good rest
[01:30] <fabbione> elmo: no, but ccache is installed on all buildd
[01:30] <elmo> just wondering why I can see /usr/bin/ccache in the ps output
[01:30] <elmo> maybe it's an artificat of how lamont wraps gcc
[01:30] <fabbione> elmo: because ccache is a wrapper to gcc?
[01:31] <fabbione> nah that's an extra one on top
[01:31] <fabbione> you never see ccache running
[01:31] <fabbione> usr/bin/ccache is only for admin 
[01:31] <fabbione> to check the status of the cache
[01:31] <elmo> /usr/bin/ccache /usr/bin/gcc-3.3.gcc-opt -mcpu=pentium4 -pipe -Wp,-MD,net/ax25/
[01:31] <elmo> the buildds beg to differ
[01:32] <fabbione> that must be lamont artifact
[01:32] <fabbione> the pure ccache is different
[01:33] <mjg59> So.
[01:33] <mjg59> Hoary, from power button to login prompt = 50 seconds
[01:33] <mjg59> (I hit enter at grub)
[01:35] <thom> that's pretty respectable
[01:35] <thom> and then about double that to login?
[01:36] <mjg59> It's less than 50 seconds from login to desktop
[01:36] <mjg59> This is a 5200RPM disk
[01:37] <thom> mjg59: so how do i debug why suspend only works once?
[01:39] <mjg59> thom: Disable DRI in your X config and see if that makes a difference
[01:39] <amu> elmo: please could you sync "blender"
[01:44] <thom> mjg59: already disabled
[01:45] <mjg59> thom: Really? Hrm.
[01:45] <mjg59> In what way does the resume fail?
[01:46] <thom> mjg59: resume doesn't fail; it just doesn't suspend - the script runs, screen blanks wireless down etc etc, then 10 secs later it resumes to the desktop
[01:46] <mjg59> thom: Ah, interesting. What does dmesg look like?
[01:46] <elmo> [NOT Updating - Modified]  blender_2.35-1ubuntu1 (vs 2.36-1)
[01:46] <elmo> amu: ok to override?
[01:47] <amu> elmo: lemme check ... 
[01:48] <T-Bone> elmo: can you do as well for efibootmgr please?
[01:49] <elmo> t-bone: it's in main - did it get approved?
[01:50] <T-Bone> elmo: it's in main
[01:50] <T-Bone> elmo: mdz said he wouldn't be picky since it's ia64 only
[01:51] <T-Bone> i can send you a mail with the summary of the changes if you want
[01:51] <elmo> I don't care - I'm not part of the approval process, I just work here - all I need to know is that mdz/jdub approved it...
[01:52] <amu> elmo: yeah, let's try it
[01:52] <thom> mjg59: interestingly, it appears to be mdnsresponder not stopping any time after the first suspend
[01:53] <T-Bone> elmo: Mar 10 19:46:16 <mdz>   since it's ia64-specific I wont't be picky
[01:53] <T-Bone> elmo: that's all i have
[01:53] <elmo> amu: err, what's that mean?  are the ubuntu changes merged or no longer relevant?
[01:54] <jdub> T-Bone: i'll approve it given mdz's almost approval there
[01:54] <jdub> :)
[01:55] <T-Bone> jdub: thank you soooooo much ;)
[01:55] <elmo> efibootmgr |    0.5.0-1 |         hoary | source, i386, ia64
[01:55] <elmo> it's not actually ia64 only btw
[01:55] <T-Bone> doh
[01:55] <T-Bone> hmm
[01:55] <jdub> elmo: only actively used on ia64 i thought
[01:55] <elmo> jdub: if by actively you mean widely, then, yeah
[01:56] <T-Bone> i think that there are some high end x86 servers with EFI boot system
[01:56] <elmo> there is EFI for i386, is just not exactly common and people using it are either paid to do so or sicko sadists who shouldn't be pandered too
[01:56] <T-Bone> lol
[01:56] <elmo> (hmm - maybe that day I spent fighting EFI left me somewhat bitter)
[01:56] <T-Bone> that's quite a nice summary :)
[01:56] <jdub> elmo: so damage is pretty limited to ia64 ;)
[01:57] <amu> elmo: didnt check, should i upload *ubuntu* myself? and only ask you if there's no ubuntu in the name? 
[01:58] <torkel> thom: does it works if you add mdnsresponder to STOP_SERVICES ???
[01:59] <thom> torkel: yes, it works fine then
[01:59] <thom> i'm just bemused as to why it works fine the first time
[01:59] <elmo> amu: err.  deal is this: if you want to sync an unchanged package, ask me.  if you want to sync a changed package, check the differences.  if they're merged or no longer relevant and can be safely overwritten, ask me.  If they're still needed, you need to do a manual merge and upload the result. 
[01:59] <pitti> Kamion: does the installer touch /etc/console-tools/config in any way?
[01:59] <thom> that reminds me, i need to push ucf into acpi-support
[02:01] <Kamion> pitti: yes, localechooser prebaseconfig does
[02:01] <pitti> Kamion: ah, that might be the reason for #6585
[02:01] <amu> elmo: all right, i'll try it first, thx4info
[02:01] <_d4vid> hi all
[02:01] <mjg59> thom: Ah, right. So fix that :p
[02:02] <Kamion> pitti: dunno what the right answer is
[02:02] <Kamion> pitti: it's kind of necessary at the moment to get console fonts set right
[02:02] <pitti> Kamion: yeah, no problem with this
[02:02] <pitti> Kamion: it's just causing an upgrade dpkg question
[02:03] <Kamion> yeah, I realise that
[02:03] <thom> yeah, i'll add it to the list of default stop services
[02:03] <pitti> Kamion: I always thought that dpkg wouldn't ask if the original file didn't change...
[02:04] <Kamion> pitti: I imagine that the version in the package has changed
[02:04] <pitti> oh, indeed
[02:04] <pitti> bah
[02:04] <elmo> yeah, debdiff's overly minimal
[02:05] <elmo> it needs a --no-really-show-me-everything option
[02:05] <pitti> elmo: it should at least display _that_ the file changed
[02:05] <pitti> Kamion: 
[02:05] <elmo> T-Bone: done
[02:05] <pitti>  # Set the following - more euro-friendly default than kernel font.
[02:05] <pitti> -# SCREEN_FONT=latcyrheb=sun16.psf
[02:05] <pitti> +# SCREEN_FONT=latarcyrheb-sun16.psf
[02:05] <pitti> ^ this is the only change
[02:05] <Kamion> right, my change in response to some bug
[02:05] <pitti> Kamion: would it be okay to revert this comment, or do you need the comment?
[02:05] <T-Bone> elmo: thx!
[02:05] <Kamion> er I don't see how that would help
[02:05] <Kamion> you can't keep that file static forever
[02:06] <Kamion> and the original was *wrong*
[02:06] <pitti> Kamion: hmm, so apart from some ugly preinst hacks, this isn't going to change then
[02:06] <Kamion> the change had nothing to do with correct operation of the installer or anything, it was just an incorrect comment
[02:07] <Kamion> pitti: one solution could fix it for the future, I guess
[02:07] <pitti> ucf?
[02:07] <Kamion> pitti: make console-tools read another file as well as /etc/console-tools/config
[02:07] <pitti> /etc/console-tools/screen-font ?
[02:07] <Kamion> but that would mean that users have to look in two files to work out their console configuration
[02:07] <Kamion> which sucks
[02:07] <pitti> hmm, right
[02:07] <Kamion> ucf would be an option ...
[02:07] <Kamion> a three-way merge should handle it fine
[02:07] <pitti> that's still interactive
[02:08] <Kamion> can't ucf try a noninteractive three-way merge if the diffs don't overlap?
[02:08] <pitti> dunno, so far I only used it in standard mode, where it asked
[02:09] <pitti> hmm
[02:09] <pitti> console-tools: important, ucf: optional
[02:09] <pitti> :-(
[02:09] <Kamion> doesn't really matter for Ubuntu, and I can easily see ucf getting promoted in the future
[02:10] <Kamion> but I don't really
[02:10] <Kamion> know
[02:10] <Kamion> maybe the separate-files approach is better; /etc/console-tools/config would have to be rewritten to reflect that
[02:10] <pitti> I don't see an ucf option to do a noninteractive merge
[02:10] <Kamion> ok
[02:10] <pitti> which would probably wrong anyway
[02:11] <pitti> *mumble* conffiles *mumble* die *mumble*
[02:11] <pitti> Kamion: nontrivial then, I think about it, but rewriting console-tools might not make mdz happy...
[02:12] <jdub> pitti: just claim that you're derooting it ;)
[02:12] <jdub> random derootification
[02:12] <Kamion> could preinst-hack it for hoary to avoid the upgrade problem
[02:13] <Kamion> but we'll need to fix it for hoary otherwise this will bite us again in breezy
[02:13] <pitti> Kamion: we need to transition the screen font to the new conffile, right?
[02:13] <Kamion> yeah, it's all a bit non-trivial
[02:13] <Kamion> let me ponder it
[02:14] <pitti> Kamion: preinst: mv config -> config.dpkg_tmp, postinst: merge
[02:14] <pitti> bah, if anything goes wrong, you are doomed
[02:14] <pitti> Kamion: I think if we modify the file in the scripts, it shouldn't be a conffile any more
[02:14] <Kamion> we have to, for this upgrade alone
[02:14] <Kamion> I think
[02:15] <pitti> besides, changing other package's conffiles is an RC bug by itself...
[02:15] <Kamion> or I suppose maybe if it weren't a conffile any more
[02:15] <Kamion> there wouldn't be a problem
[02:15] <Kamion> I think localechooser is probably wrong here, but at the moment it has no other option so Debian isn't going to fix it before sarge
[02:16] <pitti> sure
[02:16] <pitti> I don't want to change localechooser for Hoary
[02:16] <Kamion> we might have to
[02:16] <Kamion> anyway, I need lunch ...
[02:17] <pitti> Kamion: we can change conffile -> config file, and not touch an existing one; but copying a template if it isn't present
[02:17] <pitti> Kamion: so, without ucf
[02:17] <HiddenWolf> kamion: will sarge ever be out?
[02:17] <pitti> lunch... good idea indeed :-)
[02:19] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: yes, following the release meeting in Vancouver stuff is looking a lot better
[02:19] <Kamion> pitti: conffile -> config file is seeming like the sanest approach to me
[02:21] <pitti> me too, without ucf
[02:21] <pitti> Kamion: if we really have to change something nontrivial to the default conffile, we can always handle this more forcefully
[02:21] <elmo> fabbione: I don't think that was such a good plan
[02:22] <elmo> Build needed 01:05:48, 1425648k disk space
[02:22] <pitti> Kamion: okay, I prepare a patch, and ask for review
[02:22] <elmo> Build needed 00:38:47, 1428100k disk space
[02:22] <elmo> first is -26, second is -25.2 .  on amd64, same buildd host
[02:36] <lamont> if you link ccache to say /usr/local/bin/gcc, then you don't see it, you see /usr/local/bin/gcc.
[02:36] <lamont> we run things as /usr/bin/ccache gcc ...
[02:36] <lamont> so you do
[02:37] <elmo> I just export PATH=/usr/lib/ccache:$PATH
[02:37] <lamont> yeah, that's not what gcc-opt does..
[02:37] <dholbach> hellas jani!
[02:38] <jani> hi dholbach
[02:38] <jani> nice progress on dehowlification :)
[02:39] <dholbach> YES :-)
[02:39] <dholbach> jani: how are you?
[02:39] <jani> busy at work :(
[02:39] <jani> hope tonight this weekend will have some time for motuwork
[02:39] <jdub> dholbach: was chatting to murrayc earlier, he's very grateful for your work on updating *mm
[02:39] <dholbach> janc: woohoo
[02:40] <Mithrandir> lamont: moo.  Got a bit of time for util-linux evilness discussions?
[02:40] <dholbach> jdub: thanks... just hope i get libxml++ and glom in soon
[02:40] <lamont> Mithrandir: I have exactly 5 minutes before I run out the door to take kids to school.  couple hours from now would be better...
[02:40] <jani> has the after preview meeting already happened?
[02:41] <Mithrandir> lamont: sure, ping me when you're back?
[02:41] <dholbach> jani: 17:00 utc
[02:41] <jani> today?
[02:41] <lamont> Mithrandir: sure
[02:42] <lamont> should certainly be before the meeting
[02:42] <jani> it's not in the meeting channel 'headline' :)
[02:43] <jdub> yes
[02:43] <jdub> jamesh is working on stuff for that
[02:43] <HiddenWolf> utc is which timezone?
[02:43] <jdub> it will be rad
[02:43] <jdub> HiddenWolf: utc is utc :)
[02:43] <HiddenWolf> jdub: gmt +/- ? hours?
[02:43] <Mithrandir> jdub: apt-get install schoolbell? :)
[02:43] <lamont> HiddenWolf: TZ=UTC date
[02:44] <jdub> Mithrandir: mmm, but with launchpad integration foo
[02:45] <jdub> HiddenWolf: UTC is a timezone definition
[02:45] <jdub> it is arguably == GMT
[02:46] <jamesh> UTC has a different definition to GMT
[02:46] <jamesh> related to leap seconds, etc
[02:50] <mjg59> thom: I'm getting about 10 seconds from login to desktop
[02:50] <mjg59> So if I switched on autologin, I bet we could do power-on to desktop in a minute
[02:52] <dholbach> mjg59: wow
[02:57] <mjg59> Grah. The 6100 series suspends and resumes fine, the 6200 series doesn't
[02:58] <jdub> mjg59: autologin might be doable for next release
[02:58] <jdub> mjg59: with some gdm changes i'm planning
[02:59] <jdub> (interaction stuff, i know gdm supports it)
[02:59] <Amaranth> shared-mime-info (0.15cvs20050310-0ubuntu1) <--yikes
[02:59] <Amaranth> a little recent, isn't it?
[03:00] <mjg59> On the bright side, I now have a machine with failing ACPI *and* a serial port
[03:00] <zul> hey
[03:03] <dholbach> hai zul
[03:03] <zul> hey dholbach 
[03:05] <mjg59> Oh yes
[03:05] <mjg59> 60 seconds from power button to desktop
[03:06] <dholbach> :-)
[03:06] <zul> mjg59: got any idea about #7438?
[03:06] <dholbach> see you later
[03:07] <mjg59> zul: Oh, argh. Almost certainly unserviced interrupt issues.
[03:07] <zul> mjg59: ok ill ask him for his /proc/interrupts then
[03:08] <mjg59> Yeah. Ask him for /proc/interrupts from Fedora, too.
[03:09] <zul> mjg59: done
[03:11] <Kinnison> Hi guys
[03:11] <pitti> Hi Kinnison 
[03:12] <Kinnison> a few too many conffile questions; but I think that's due to my fiddling
[03:12] <Kinnison> My only concern was that after a reboot, evolution popped up a "thank you for downloading this evaluation release" box
[03:12] <Kinnison> which seems a wee bit silly
[03:12] <seb128_> anybody has an idea of why I get this in poppler build logs "libtool: ignoring unknown tag CXX" ?
[03:12] <seb128_> and not in a pbuilder or my box
[03:12] <pitti> Kinnison: re conffile questions, I collected them in https://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7416
[03:13] <pitti> Kinnison: if you found anything else, please create a new bug and make it block #7416
[03:13] <Kinnison> pitti: I'll look through
[03:13] <pitti> does it?
[03:14] <Kinnison> well, it disables all my shiny useful plugins :-(
[03:14] <pitti> seb128: indeed, do you think this evo dialog can be silenced?
[03:14] <seb128> what dialog ?
[03:16] <seb128> Keybuk: around ?
[03:17] <Kinnison> seb128: in apps/evolution/shell/ unset skip_warning and restart evo
[03:18] <seb128> this should not be set in a stable version
[03:18] <seb128> is it ?
[03:20] <mjg59> Hm.
[03:20] <mjg59> PCMCIA startup is hanging this machine.
[03:21] <mjg59> Oh, arse, no. That's not hte problem.
[03:21] <mjg59> It gets to Starting Postfix and then hangs
[03:23] <mjg59> Disabling dbus startup stops it hanging, so I blame HAL
[03:23] <seb128> anybody with some libtool knowledge around who know why http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/p/poppler/0.1.2-0ubuntu1/poppler_0.1.2-0ubuntu1_20050310-1911-i386-successful has a bunch of "libtool: ignoring unknown tag CXX"
[03:23] <seb128> ?
[03:23] <seb128> works fine in a pbuilder
[03:34] <pitti> elmo: can I please have aalib1-dev and slang1-dev in concordia's hoary-i386 dchroot?
[03:35] <Mithrandir> seb128: any progress on mit-kerberising e-d-s? :)
[03:35] <Keybuk> seb128: yo
[03:36] <Keybuk> seb128: does that after libtoolzeing?
[03:37] <seb128> Keybuk: nop, the package is not relibtoolized
[03:37] <seb128> standard ./configure && make
[03:38] <seb128> works fine on my box and in a pbuilder, and make that on the pbuilder
[03:38] <Keybuk> g++ installed on the system?
[03:38] <Keybuk> with build-depend ?
[03:38] <seb128> correct
[03:38] <Keybuk> no idea then
[03:38] <seb128> k
[03:38] <seb128> that ftbfs evince :/
[03:39] <Keybuk> got a copy of the generated libtool script?
[03:39] <seb128> nop
[03:39] <Keybuk> weird :)
[03:40] <seb128> Mithrandir: seems to work fine here, need to ping mdz before uploading
[03:40] <Mithrandir> seb128: ok, thanks
[03:46] <zul> is dvd borked or what i didnt read the whole thread
[03:46] <Kamion> they took a random development snapshot without telling us
[03:46] <Kamion> I'd like to know what it is :)
[03:46] <Kamion> hmm, crap, my only DVD reader is in the Pegasos
[03:46] <zul> heh...the cd copy i got from them was hosed too 
[03:47] <Kamion> marginally unuseful for testing an i386 DVD
[03:48] <seb128> Keybuk: hum, the buildd log has no "checking how to run the C++ preprocessor... g++ -E"
[03:54] <seb128> lamont: here ?
[03:58] <Kamion> ah, Pegasos in "working better when plugged in" shocker
[03:58] <T-Bone> lol
[03:59] <zul> ah...i wouldnt let svenl hear you
[04:01] <elmo> pitti: done
[04:02] <Kamion> hmm
[04:02] <seb128> mdz: around ?
[04:02] <Kamion> the Linux Magazine DVD has kernel ABI 2.6.10-2
[04:02] <zul> i think someone should write a letter to the editor
[04:03] <Kamion> it's the 20050129 DVD build
[04:04] <Kamion> which is between Array CDs 3 and 4
[04:05] <elmo> did they call it hoary?
[04:05] <tseng> seb128: heya, im testing some fixes for gstreamer
[04:06] <tseng> seb128: theres a buglet with mp3s with playbin
[04:06] <Kamion> elmo: it's labelled 'Ubuntu 5.04' and '"Hoary Hedgehog" Development Edition'
[04:06] <seb128> tseng: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7359 ?
[04:07] <tseng> seb128: sounds like it
[04:07] <Kamion> the blurb inside says 'Ubuntu Linux is a stylish distribution built from Debian and polished for the corporate user. This month's DVD brings you a special pre-release of the upcoming Ubuntu Linux 5.04, which Ubuntu has dubbed the "Hoary Hedgehog" release.'
[04:07] <seb128> tseng: rock, thanks
[04:07] <elmo> bah, that sucks
[04:07] <seb128> tseng: bug flood, not easy to track every single one, thanks for looking on it :)
[04:08] <seb128> tseng: do you have an upstream pointer for it ?
[04:08] <tseng> yes I do
[04:08] <tseng> posting now
[04:08] <tseng> and rolling my source package as we speak
[04:08] <Kamion> amusingly, they claim Kickstart support; I didn't upload the first piece of that until 4 February
[04:08] <pitti> elmo: can I please have xlibs-dev python-gtk2-dev libexif-dev in hoary-i386 (concordia)?
[04:09] <lamont> seb128: which buildd?
[04:09] <zul> mjg59: http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/3/11/96
[04:09] <seb128> lamont: poppler build is weird, any way to get the config.log ?
[04:09] <elmo> pitti: they're all installed
[04:09] <pitti> elmo: thanks, worls now
[04:09] <pitti> works, even
[04:09] <elmo> pitti: I was just dist-upgrading, that porbbaly confused things
[04:09] <pitti> ah, that probably was it
[04:09] <elmo> lamont: <random> we should save config.logs from builds</>
[04:10] <seb128> lamont: it throws "libtool: ignoring unknown tag CXX" messages and the configure has no "checking how to run the C++ preprocessor... g++ -E"
[04:11] <lamont> seb128: build was successful... so no.
[04:11] <seb128> lamont: evince ftbfs due to that
[04:12] <seb128> lamont: any idea on what could be wrong ?
[04:12] <lamont> elmo: saving config.log... yeah, bob should do that - I'll add it to my list for Kinnison 
[04:13] <sivang> is a.u.c having bandwidth issues?
[04:13] <elmo> no
[04:13] <sivang> (trying to download a source pkg and no go)
[04:13] <elmo> it's apache is just slow
[04:13] <elmo> use a mirror
[04:13] <sivang> 50.6kB/s
[04:13] <sivang> elmo: ok, I'll try a mirror
[04:13] <sivang> elmo: thx
[04:14] <seb128> lamont: any idea on how to debug that ?
[04:15] <sivang> pitti: how is the germen mirror, up to date?
[04:15] <pitti> sivang: should be pretty good
[04:15] <pitti> archive.u.c sucks ATM
[04:15] <sivang> pitti: ok, I'm switching to it :) I also always used the germne one when I Was using sid :)
[04:16] <elmo> de.archive.u.c exists and is a good mirror
[04:16] <lamont> rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [receiver] 
[04:16] <lamont> elmo: and yeah, I know - it's on my end
[04:17] <sivang> pitti: no security there?   Could not resolve de.security.ubuntu.com
[04:18] <pitti> sivang: they have security there
[04:18] <pitti> http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/
[04:18] <pitti> -> warty-security, hoary-security
[04:18] <sivang> pitti: k, thx
[04:19] <sivang> pitti: sweat! :)
[04:19] <sivang> pitti: works perfectly :)
[04:19] <pitti> why sweat? does it suck as well?
[04:19] <pitti> hmm, s/sweat/sweet/ then?
[04:20] <sivang> pitti: oops :)
[04:20] <sivang> pitti: sweet
[04:30] <pitti> Keybuk: ^ any chance that this madness will eventually be fixed in the future?
[04:30] <Keybuk> not in the immediate future
[04:31] <Keybuk> because of why dpkg does it
[04:31] <pitti> no, long-term
[04:31] <Keybuk> it's in the same class as why dpkg won't replace dirs with symlinks and vice-versa
[04:31] <Keybuk> maybe when there's richer metadata on installed files
[04:33] <pitti> Keybuk: but what should be wrong with deleting an unchanged conffile if the newer package version does not ship it any more?
[04:33] <pitti> Keybuk: is there an use case why this should not happen?
[04:33] <tseng> why doesnt apt cache sources =/
[04:34] <wasabi_> what's that mean? cache sources?
[04:34] <wasabi_> oh you mean for apt-get source don't ya
[04:34] <wasabi_> yeah it'd be neat. ;)
[04:35] <enrico> Hello.  Someone knows how to insert the "}}}" string inside a MoinMoin verbatim environment (the one between {{{ and }}}) ?
[04:35] <Keybuk> pitti: they are dude, it's called purge
[04:35] <Kamion> enrico: try }``}}
[04:35] <pitti> Keybuk: I mean on package upgrade, not purge
[04:35] <Kamion> enrico: I think that should work, might not though
[04:35] <pitti> Keybuk: upgrading is what I'm fixing
[04:35] <enrico> Kamion: it shows }''}}
[04:35] <enrico> an, no, backquote
[04:36] <Keybuk> dunno if there's any particular technical reason for that
[04:36] <enrico> It shows }``}}
[04:36] <enrico> Kamion: it doesn't work forme
[04:37] <jdub> night guys
[04:37] <enrico> jdub: night
[04:37] <jdub> sent apologies for meeting
[04:37] <jdub> just... can't... keep... eyelids... open...
[04:37] <Keybuk> it'd take about 1s to fix
[04:37] <Keybuk>   /* All the old conffiles are marked with a flag, so that we don't delete
[04:37] <Keybuk>    * them if they seem to disappear completely.
[04:37] <Keybuk>    */
[04:37] <Keybuk>   oldconffsetflags(pkg->installed.conffiles);
[04:37] <Keybuk>   for (i = 0 ; i < cflict_index ; i++) {
[04:37] <Keybuk>     oldconffsetflags(conflictor[i] ->installed.conffiles);
[04:37] <Keybuk>   }
[04:37] <Keybuk> delete that code
[04:38] <Keybuk> but I don't want to do that without learning why it's there in the first place
[04:38] <pitti> yeah, sure
[04:38] <pitti> that's why I wonder whether there is an use case for it
[04:38] <jbailey> Kamion: I was just about to send you a patch for the resume partition stuff when I saw that you had done it.  Ah well, serves me right for not filing a bug to track.
[04:38] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: transition from conffile to non-conffile, possibly?
[04:38] <pitti> Keybuk: the code does not look like a bug, but like purpose
[04:39] <Keybuk> the best thing would probably be to ask iwj
[04:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: hm, good point
[04:39] <jbailey> Kamion: Does the installer allow you to setup swapfiles?  If yes, this will be broken and I'll send mine along anyway.
[04:39] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: nah, cause then it'd get owned by the new package anyway
[04:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: but a package should install its version anyway if the config file does not exist
[04:39] <Kamion> Keybuk: reason: administrator might have looked at it, gone "oh yeah, I like that, no changes necessary"
[04:40] <Kamion> jbailey: sorry, yeah, did that in a hurry just before preview, you weren't around at the time
[04:40] <pitti> Kamion: but if the new package does not need the conffile any more (mostly it was moved to another package), why should it be kept?
[04:40] <Kamion> jbailey: I don't know of any way to set up swapfiles in partman, but you could set them up by hand
[04:40] <Kamion> pitti: dpkg doesn't know that
[04:41] <Kamion> Keybuk: it wouldn't get owned by the new package if it was a transition from conffile to non-conffile configuration file
[04:41] <pitti> Kamion: why not? in the preinst upgrade phase it should knwo
[04:41] <Kamion> not without dpkg-registerfile or whatever
[04:42] <Kamion> pitti: it doesn't know what the packager intended; it might be "I want to manage this as a non-conffile configuration file now" or it might be "I want this file to go away"
[04:42] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, that certainly wouldn't work
[04:42] <pitti> Kamion: what would be wrong with deleting the conffile if the new version wants to handle it as a config file?
[04:42] <Keybuk> the simple answer, of course, is the packager should transition correctly in the maintainer scripts
[04:43] <pitti> sure, but that's a bit boring
[04:43] <Keybuk> I actually find the fact that dpkg punishes you for moving conffiles about quite nice
[04:43] <Keybuk> because YOU SHOULDN'T MOVE THEM
[04:43] <pitti> I DIDN'T
[04:43] <Keybuk> :p
[04:43] <Keybuk> suuure, blame upstream
[04:43] <pitti> :-P
[04:44] <jbailey> Kamion: 'kay.  I've got a simple patch here.  Do you want it in a new bug, or in an email?
[04:44] <pitti> Keybuk: the bad thing is that it doesn't punish the maintainer, but the user
[04:44] <elmo> how do I get w3m to auto-reload?
[04:44] <pitti> Keybuk: --with-maintainer-spanking would be much better :)
[04:44] <elmo> + a page
[04:44] <Keybuk> pitti: doesn't really affect the user
[04:44] <Kamion> jbailey: new bug please
[04:45] <pitti> Keybuk: on upgrade he has to answer conffile questions
[04:45] <koke> elmo: shift+R ??
[04:45] <elmo> koke: no, as in, reload it every 5 mins
[04:45] <Keybuk> pitti: why?  dpkg no longer knows about the conffile
[04:45] <Kamion> pitti: only when the package maintainer fucks up
[04:45] <elmo> without me sitting here pressing R every 5 mins
[04:45] <Keybuk> that only happens when the maintainer gets things wrong
[04:45] <koke> elmo: ok, I missed the "auto-" :D
[04:45] <Kamion> you don't set EDITOR=vim everywhere?
[04:45] <Kinnison> pitti: are you upset?
[04:46] <pitti> Kinnison: no, what about?
[04:46] <Kinnison> pitti: nano
[04:46] <pitti> Kinnison: I just wondered why my vim commands produced strange results :)
[04:46] <Kamion> Kinnison: what why? it's better than vim as default editor
[04:46] <Kinnison> Kamion: I know it is; unfortunately I hate it :-)
[04:46] <Kamion> you know where $EDITOR is :)
[04:47] <Kinnison> I know where sudo update-alternatives --config editor is
[04:47] <pitti> that must have been changed very recently
[04:48] <Mithrandir> pitti: it's a nice revenge for emacs not being installed on chinstrap
[04:48] <pitti> *giggle*
[04:48] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'm on concordia, btw
[04:48] <koke> elmo: while true;do w3m -dump $URL;sleep 5;done ??
[04:48] <Mithrandir> pitti: I read that.  Still a nice revenge
[04:48] <koke> or is the page too big?
[04:49] <tseng> seb128: ok.. what I did was
[04:49] <elmo> koke: well I kinda wanted it interactively
[04:49] <tseng> seb128: i took the cvs revision of gstqueue.c with the fixes, looks like the only ones since release to that point, and diff'd it
[04:49] <Kamion> pitti: yes, I changed it a week or two ago
[04:49] <tseng> that patches werent quite clean
[04:49] <Kamion> vim 1:6.3-046+1ubuntu4, 1 Mar 2005
[04:50] <pitti> Kamion: ah, you mean as a general default? Agreed, nano might make more sense
[04:50] <pitti> Kamion: I thought elmo changed it locally on concordia :-)
[04:51] <Kamion> pitti: oh no, general default changed, I guess he just upgraded
[04:51] <pitti> he did
[04:51] <pitti> because yesterday I still got vim
[04:52] <tseng> seb128: actually that also pulls in a fix for http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=166250 .. which isnt adverse
[04:52] <seb128> tseng: <tseng> that patches werent quite clean
[04:52] <seb128> tseng: what do you mean ?
[04:52] <tseng> the patches on bugzilla were against cvs
[04:52] <tseng> one didnt apply cleanly to our package
[04:52] <seb128> oh, k
[04:52] <tseng> so i looked at cvs, and I did it this way
[04:53] <tseng> pulling in another trivial fix
[04:53] <tseng> but I think thats fine
[04:53] <seb128> nice
[04:53] <seb128> does it fix the issue for you ?
[04:53] <seb128> where do you have the issue without the fix ?
[04:53] <tseng> just finished building
[04:53] <tseng> i have issues with skipping in mp3s in muine
[04:54] <tseng> so do several others
[04:54] <seb128> muine also
[04:54] <seb128> lemme try muine
[04:55] <tseng> it seems fixed here
[04:55] <tseng> seb128: do you want my source package, or just the patch?
[04:56] <seb128> patch is enough
[04:56] <tseng> np
[04:56] <seb128> but I would like to have the bug first
[04:56] <tseng> ok.
[04:56] <seb128> just listening on a mp3 and it skip during the play ?
[04:56] <tseng> after 3 seconds
[04:56] <tseng> it makes a seek
[04:56] <tseng> missing a few seconds of the song
[04:57] <tseng> it seems to be every mp3 for me, some people claim some arent affected
[04:57] <schweeb> tseng: oggs too?
[04:57] <tseng> schweeb: no
[04:57] <schweeb> k
[04:57] <schweeb> I'll test in a few
[04:57] <tseng> ok
[04:58] <seb128> tseng: I don't get the bug but I'm happy to use a fix from the CVS in the package if it works for you
[04:58] <tseng> seb128: http://getsweaaa.com/~tseng/gstqueue-fix.diff
[04:58] <seb128> tseng: can you attach it to the bug I pointer before ?
[04:58] <tseng> yes
[04:58] <seb128> thanks
[05:02] <tseng> seb128: posted
[05:02] <seb128> ta
[05:03] <tseng> np, thanks for having a look
[05:11] <sivang> does anybody know if pitti is supposed to come back?
[05:12] <seb128> I think so
[05:12] <thom> well, given the meeting's in an hour, i guess so
[05:15] <sivang> pitti: rehi :)
[05:15] <pitti> reho
[05:15] <pitti> sivang: changed net connection
[05:15] <sivang> pitti: better now?
[05:15] <svenl> daniels: there, patch for xresprobe is in #7144 attachement, i believe it is easy enough to use for hoary-post-preview, and anything beyond that would need a more complete rewrite, which should be post-hoary, but i would gladly participate in it.
[05:15] <svenl> daniels: adding support for multiple head and such.
[05:15] <pitti> sivang: no, before I was on WLAN, but I don't get on my desktop with this
[05:16] <pitti> sivang: now I'm on NAT over my desktop, so I can also ssh to it
[05:16] <Kamion> svenl: oh, I tested CD boot on pmac with fs_of.diff, worked fine
[05:16] <Kamion> svenl: haven't yet had time to try either hard disk boot with that diff, or anything with the other diff
[05:16] <sivang> pitti: ah cool, it's nice to have the desktop as a "development server" when sshing to it from the laptop
[05:19] <pitti> sivang: any news with the gcm patch?
[05:21] <sivang> pitti: finished, testing now
[05:21] <svenl> Kamion: i failed to get fully booting from CD working, but both harddisk booting (provided the kernel is on a filesystem supported by yaboot) and netboot works.
[05:21] <sivang> pitti: (with all the nitpicking)
[05:22] <svenl> Kamion: i could mail you the upgrade, and you could try a netboot on occastion, and we fix yaboot-installer to also work on pegasos.
[05:22] <svenl> this would let only two remaining problems for the pegasos support : 
[05:23] <svenl> 1) X doesn't failback on pcigart if agpgart doesn't work, but X still works in unaccelerated 2D mode.
[05:23] <svenl> 2) initial boot from CD is still broken.
[05:23] <sivang> pitti: bah, there's some assertion failing now, checking to see if it's upstream or my fault
[05:24] <pitti> sivang: if it didn't occur before, it's yours :-)
[05:24] <svenl> am working on 1) now, and 2) should be solved by the new OF update i am preparing, don't have an exact date though.
[05:25] <svenl> Kamion: when is hoary official release date ? 
[05:25] <thom> april 6
[05:25] <svenl> Ok, i will try to have the OF update released by then.
[05:26] <svenl> BTW, i am thinking of bundling a ubuntu/hoary powerpc CD with each pegasos board sold or distributed, is there any formalities on doing so ? 
[05:26] <svenl> thom: what about the kubuntu release ?
[05:28] <dholbach> re
[05:30] <schweeb> tseng: there?
[05:31] <tseng> yes
[05:31] <schweeb> tseng: what exactly was the muine bug?
[05:31] <tseng> schweeb: skipp after 3 seconds on mp3s
[05:31] <schweeb> a skip in the first few seconds of a song?
[05:31] <schweeb> yep
[05:31] <schweeb> got it here
[05:31] <Nafallo> dholbach: welcome back :-)
[05:31] <dholbach> hi Nafallo :-)
[05:31] <tseng> schweeb: ok. standby for a fix
[05:32] <schweeb> kk
[05:32] <tseng> latexer tested the patch also
[05:32] <tseng> schweeb: hopefully have it in ubuntu sometime today
[05:33] <schweeb> tseng: I noticed that problem like last week, but I thought it was a problem with how the mp3s I had just downloaded were encoded, heh
[05:33] <Kamion> svenl: mail upgrade> yeah, that'd be good; then I could get yaboot-installer working properly with the confidence that I can test it
[05:33] <sabdfl> svenl: no formalities required, please go ahead!
[05:34] <tseng> schweeb: nope.
[05:34] <sivang> pitti: think I've found it
[05:34] <tseng> hi sabdfl 
[05:34] <svenl> sabdfl: hi, you are Mark, right ? 
[05:34] <Kamion> happy to test pegasos netboot installs at least
[05:34] <Kamion> and make 'em work
[05:34] <svenl> but i guess that it would be nicer if the pegasos was officially listed as supported.
[05:35] <svenl> sivang: hehe.
[05:35] <pitti> Is it just me, or do other people also get nasty authentication error questions with apt-get?
[05:35] <svenl> no laptop yet
[05:35] <sivang> svenl: I've heared about plans :)
[05:35] <Kamion> svenl: "officially" => i.e. in the installer manual and such?
[05:36] <svenl> Kamion: can your email get 640K attachements ? 
[05:36] <svenl> sivang: "can't comment on unannounced products".
[05:36] <sabdfl> svenl: if you can work with kamion to ensure it works first time every time, we can integrate patches to docs etc with pleasure
[05:36] <Kamion> svenl: mail cjwatson@riva.debian.net, I think that should work
[05:36] <sabdfl> also, we can list the service / products you provide in the marketplace pages, or elsewhere on the site like the hardware database
[05:36] <Kamion> (batch SMTP hack)
[05:37] <svenl> Kamion: whatever you mention as officially supported, even if there are some erratas. I have not yet looked at the manual, so i don't know if it entails any change.
[05:37] <Kamion> yeah, there'll be a manual change and I guess general web site docs
[05:37] <Kamion> I don't know if the CD packaging has been finalised yet, but if CD boot isn't going to work in time then that's a non-issue anyhow
[05:37] <svenl> Kamion: as far as i understand, you would just need the right boot cd yaboot line documentation, and the rest should be self documented in d-i :)
[05:37] <Kamion> oh, cd booting will work?
[05:38] <svenl> Kamion: no problem, you mention "supported provided you upgrade to OF version xx"
[05:38] <Kamion> right
[05:38] <svenl> Kamion: sure, i just didn't manage to fix it until yesterday 16h00 :)
[05:38] <Kamion> yeah, understood, OF hacking => non-trivial
[05:38] <svenl> and OF hacking without the board with removable flash is non-fun.
[05:38] <Kamion> heh
[05:38] <svenl> nono-productive also, as it stops as soon as you make a mistake and kill the flash.
[05:39] <sivang> svenl: hehe ok, are you close pegasos company? :)
[05:39] <svenl> sivang: i am pegasos company :)
[05:39] <svenl> (well partly).
[05:41] <Kamion> I really must actually serial-console the Pegasos or get a KVM switch sometime before the heat death of the universe
[05:41] <sivang> svenl: oh 
[05:41] <svenl> Kamion: serial console is great.
[05:41] <sivang> svenl: I'm struck
[05:41] <svenl> Kamion: well, gnome on serial console doesn't make much sense, but hey.
[05:41] <Kamion> if I'd thought about it I'd have done it together with the DVD+RW order I just put in
[05:42] <sivang> svenl: you also work on morphos?
[05:42] <svenl> Kamion: mmm, there is a little yaboot/keyboard/serial console too.
[05:42] <svenl> sivang: nope, i did the linux/debian/debian-installer/parted/whatever stuff, organized free giveaway of machines, and do some OF development lately.
[05:42] <svenl> (among others).
[05:43] <svenl> sivang: absolutely no link with morphos, don't even have it installed.
[05:46] <svenl> Kamion: BTW, i guess the livecd will need its own fixing, right ?
[05:47] <mdz> seb128: here
[05:48] <Kamion> svenl: for what?
[05:48] <seb128> mdz: is the meeting planning open to changes ?
[05:48] <shaya> kernel abi seems to have been broken again
[05:48] <seb128> mdz: ie: I've some stuff to put on it
[05:48] <mdz> seb128: certainly
[05:49] <pitti> Hi mdz 
[05:49] <mdz> seb128: the gaim/panel crash happened again while I was asleep
[05:49] <mdz> seb128: this time I had -dbg installed
[05:49] <seb128> nice
[05:49] <mdz> I forget the bug#; you closed it right?
[05:49] <seb128> yep, WORKSFORME
[05:49] <seb128> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7319
[05:50] <svenl> Kamion: that ubuntu-installer works on peg doesn't guarantee that the live-cd infrastructure works.
[05:50] <mdz> thanks
[05:50] <Mithrandir> lamont: I think that mount should be librarified and have callback hooks if it needs to prompt the user somehow (think smbmount).
[05:50] <Kamion> svenl: oh, I see. but the live CD infrastructure is basically just d-i with a few extra tweaks; if d-i works, then the live CD should too.
[05:50] <Kamion> svenl: (assuming you can boot it)
[05:51] <shaya> is there a new -4 kernel package in the works?
[05:51] <svenl> Kamion: ok, cool.
[05:51] <Kamion> shaya: 2.6.10-26 was uploaded earlier today
[05:51] <shaya> madwifi can't load with current image/restricted set
[05:51] <lamont> Mithrandir: ew
[05:51] <Kamion> ... but had nothing to do with madwifi
[05:51] <svenl> Kamion: for documentation, the pegasos will not be able to boot by pressing 'c' like the macs, you need to hand enter "boot cd /path/to/yaboot".
[05:51] <lamont> Mithrandir: mount is _supposed_ to stay simple...
[05:52] <Mithrandir> lamont: you also want to be able to prompt the user for stuff like crypto.
[05:52] <lamont> Mithrandir: is that what you wanted to chat about?
[05:52] <Mithrandir> lamont: yeah
[05:52] <shaya> linux-source-2.6.10 (2.6.10-26)  / linux-restricted-modules-2.6.10 (2.6.10.3-5) is causing me problems
[05:52] <Kamion> svenl: ok, noted, thanks. I didn't really expect the 'c' trick to work on non-Macs ...
[05:52] <Mithrandir> lamont: basically to see your response and listen to any great ideas you might have. :)
[05:52] <lamont> yeah..  I understand that... it just makes my brain hurt
[05:52] <shaya> revert to old -3 kernel and it works
[05:52] <Kamion> svenl: um - should that be 'boot cd:,/path/to/yaboot'? or is there magic to make the space work?
[05:52] <Mithrandir> lamont: it would remove the need to patch mount for lots of silly things, though
[05:52] <mdz> development meeting on #ubuntu-meeting in 2 minutes
[05:53] <shaya> linux-image-2.6.10-4-686
[05:53] <Mithrandir> mdz: uhm, isn't that 7 minutes? :)
[05:53] <mdz> is my clock wrong?
[05:53] <mdz> Fri Mar 11 16:57:57 UTC 2005
[05:53] <lamont> 6.5 min, but yews
[05:53] <svenl> Kamion: also about yaboot, it seems to me that the yaboot.conf in same place as yaboot is disabled in yaboot in chrp hardware.
[05:53] <svenl> need to check.
[05:53] <mdz> 11 Mar 08:53:42 ntpdate[20848] : step time server 82.211.81.145 offset -269.973498 sec
[05:53] <svenl> Kamion: boot <device> <file> <args> is the current syntax.
[05:54] <Kamion> svenl: oh, do I still need to add /etc/yaboot.conf? will a symlink work there, or does it need to be a copy?
[05:54] <svenl> but the other should work also, is more involved though.
[05:54] <Kamion> ok, cool
[05:54] <svenl> no, a symlink should be ok.
[05:54] <svenl> (provided your tftp server supports copies).
[05:54] <Kamion> tftp? on a cd?
[05:54] <svenl> I believe both yaboot's ext2 code follows symlinks, and i implemented the functionality in pegasos-of ext2 code.
[05:55] <svenl> ah, well.
[05:55] <Mithrandir> lamont: do you have any other great ideas?  (Except possibly "fork mount", but I would like to avoid that)
[05:55] <svenl> for now the symlink would be best.
[05:55] <svenl> unless you patch yaboot that is.
[05:55] <Kamion> ok, consider it done
[05:55] <sivang> we have a development meeting today right?
[05:55] <zul> yep
[05:55] <svenl> Don't know how it works on isos, since it uses the OF code, but i will make sure our OF does the right thing.
[05:56] <svenl> hi zul.
[05:56] <seb128> mdz: I would like to switch eds and friends from heimdal to libkrb5, any opinion on this ? Firefox and OO.o2 use libkrb5 ... and since heimdal-dev and libkrb5-dev conflict ... any opinion on this ? 
[05:56] <zul> in 4 minutes if my clock is off
[05:56] <zul> hi svenl 
[05:56] <sivang> zul: phew, I thought I missed it
[05:56] <svenl> Kamion: will you merge the fs_of.c patch ? 
[05:56] <lamont> Mithrandir: I think the callbacks are probably the best answer..  must poinder it some
[05:56] <seb128> mdz: I've rebuilt it here with librkb5, seems to work fine, and that's easy to revert if we have an issue before hoary with it
[05:56] <mdz> seb128: that's OK with me
[05:56] <seb128> k, I'll do it so, thanks
[05:57] <Mithrandir> seb128: nice, thanks.
[05:57] <seb128> Mithrandir: you're welcome
[05:57] <Kamion> svenl: will have to test more on pmac, but apart from that yeah
[05:57] <elmo> pitti: is it you looking at this ntp horkage on first start?
[05:57] <Kamion> svenl: although I might change it around a bit if you don't mind - "is_not_iso = 0;" makes my head hurt :)
[05:58] <sabdfl> Kamion: any idea how long Apple boxen have had 700MB-capable cd-rw's?
[05:59] <svenl> Kamion: if you could also try the partition.c patch instead ? I think it is quite broken to have the partition code report one partition on a iso cd ?
[05:59] <Kamion> sabdfl: no, sorry
[05:59] <Kamion> the partition.c patch scares me, I don't know enough about why that's there
[06:00] <Kamion> but I'll give it a go
[06:00] <pitti> elmo: EWORKSFORME
[06:00] <pitti> elmo: do you have any further info?
[06:00] <Kamion> svenl: /etc/yaboot.conf -> /install/yaboot.conf symlink on the CD done
[06:00] <elmo> pitti: yes, it's entirely reproduceable on any hoary server I have here or warty ones running the ntp backport
[06:01] <pitti> elmo: _what_ is reproducible?
[06:01] <pitti> elmo: can you please mail me? meeting begins now
[06:01] <elmo> pitti: ntp doesn't start because it claims to be able to unfind the ntp user
[06:01] <pitti> uh?
[06:01] <svenl> Kamion: and "boot cd install/yaboot" to boot then.
[06:01] <mdz> amu: #ubuntu-meeting
[06:02] <Kamion> svenl: ok, no initial slash needed?
[06:02] <svenl> Kamion: if it works for you i will audit the yaboot code and check.
[06:02] <svenl> Kamion: nope, it can be put, but per default it adds it.
[06:02] <pitti> elmo: ntp-simple?
[06:02] <Kamion> 'k. development meeting now, need to concentrate on that
[06:02] <Kamion> ok, cool
[06:02] <elmo> pitti: yep
[06:02] <svenl> Ok, let you to your meeting.
[06:02] <elmo> pitti: if you can't multitask, it can wait, don't worry
[06:03] <pitti> elmo: just installed ntp-simple, now the server runs. what now?
[06:03] <elmo> pitti: reboot
[06:03] <elmo> seriously, it only happens post-reboot
[06:03] <pitti> erm, later then
[06:04] <pitti> elmo: okay, I will try this after meeting when I can reboot again
[06:05] <Kinnison> Anyone here successfully got gaim-encryption working in hoary?
[06:06] <dholbach> Kinnison: yes
[06:06] <dholbach> Kinnison: if you enabled it in the plugins section, things should be fine
[06:06] <dredg> Kinnison: yeah. i have 2.35 waiting to be uploaded... after i get some sleep though
[06:07] <Kamion> Mithrandir: will you be uploading oo.o-amd64 for ia64 support? I'd like to get those seeds sorted out and various hacks removed sooner rather than later
[06:07] <pitti> ogra: yeah, 2.6.11 might still contain the broken inotify code
[06:07] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes, but there's another hack I want to get in there.
[06:07] <Kinnison> dredg: did the protocol for key exchange change?
[06:07] <schweeb> Kinnison: yes, works for me
[06:07] <ogra> eh, sure, since its form beginning of feb
[06:07] <dredg> Kinnison: no, just bug fixes iirc
[06:08] <sivang> pitti: ok, fixed it, preparing new debdiff and pkgs
[06:08] <Kinnison> :-)
[06:08] <schweeb> it's working fine for me ubuntu->ubuntu... don't have anyone else using it that's not on ubuntu
[06:08] <dredg> Kinnison:      2.35    Workaround for Jabber bug in Gaim
[06:08] <dredg> that's it
[06:09] <ogra> pitti: but its a huge difference in the pci database it seems, in 2.6.10 about 60% of my hal entrys are unknown....with 2.6.11 there are only a handfull of these
[06:09] <pitti> ogra: then bitch fabbione to build a 2.6.11 final kernel :-) I'd love to have this as well to build hardened kernels :-)
[06:09] <Kinnison> dredg: how much of a workaround is it?
[06:10] <pitti> ogra: however, this is loooow priority
[06:10] <Kamion> 2.6.11.2 rather ...
[06:10] <pitti> yeah
[06:10] <Kinnison> dredg: and do you have a hoary deb I could try out?
[06:10] <Kamion> unless there's been a .3 while I wasn't looking
[06:10] <pitti> Kamion: even if it was, 2.6.11.2 -> .3 is probably a piece of cake, packaging-wise
[06:11] <fabbione> *cough*
[06:11] <fabbione> it's like.. you can build a kernel :-)
[06:12] <pitti> fabbione: yeah, if I find some time I try to update the current package
[06:12] <elmo> fabbione: did you see the timings I posted earlier?
[06:12] <fabbione> elmo: no. i saw the ones in the log. we need to check with 27
[06:13] <fabbione> the new idiotify patch did invalidate the cache
[06:13] <elmo> haha
[06:13] <elmo> idiotify, how very apt
[06:13] <fabbione> pitti: with all the change sin 2.6.10 not merged in .11 is understandable
[06:14] <dredg> Kinnison: tiny. it's to do with jabber stripping html
[06:14] <pitti> fabbione: do you have the 2.6.11 in an arch repo I should branch, or is it just download, modify, upload?
[06:14] <fabbione> pitti: the latter
[06:15] <Kinnison> dredg: oh
[06:16] <dredg> Kinnison: can you ping me about it tomorrow? i've been on the go for about 40 hours at this point and i'm going to bed very soon
[06:16] <svenl> Kamion: ah, i remember now , we need a backport of the gigabit ethernet driver too.
[06:16] <Kamion> svenl: I thought we already had that in the Ubuntu kernel; but talk to fabbione or one of the guys if it needs to be updated
[06:17] <Kamion> I may be mistaken
[06:19] <Kinnison> dredg: Go to bed then; I'll be around (if not on channel then on-net) for the foreseeable future :-)
[06:21] <svenl> Kamion: there is a much better patch we worked out with benh and the montavista marvell guys, which is going upstream.
[06:22] <svenl> Kamion: will backport it to the debian 2.6.10 kernel, and they can apply it then.
[06:23] <Kamion> jbailey: isn't the 'tail -n +2 /proc/swaps' needed to strip off the header? your patch removes it
[06:23] <Kamion> svenl: ok
[06:23] <jbailey> Kamion: I'm looking in the third column for the word partition and doing a continue otherwise.
[06:23] <Kamion> oh, ok
[06:24] <Kamion> jbailey: I also have a suspicion that biggest_partition's value will not be preserved when you exit the 'while read' loop
[06:24] <Kamion> jbailey: 'while read' has a habit of creating a subshell
[06:24] <Kamion> but ICBW
[06:25] <jbailey> $ busybox sh partsize.sh
[06:25] <jbailey> /dev/hda4
[06:26] <jbailey> Kamion: Also works with posh and bash.
[06:26] <sivang> pitti: you can take a look at the debdiff already, http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/g-c-m/sivan-gcm-crack.diff
[06:27] <sivang> pitti: and the rest is in http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/g-c-m/
[06:27] <Kamion> jbailey: you're right, I think I'm thinking of foo | while read
[06:28] <Kamion> jbailey: could do with fixing the shell quoting and losing the backslashes, but looks good, thanks
[06:28] <Kamion> works for me in a test install
[06:29] <Kamion> I'll upload
[06:29] <jbailey> Mm, yeah, probably good for safety. I hadn't bothered with the quotes since I know what the values are.
[06:30] <Kamion> but you're right, shouldn't matter unless /proc/swaps goes insane
[06:30] <jbailey> Perhaps it's a proximity to kinnison and elmo thing ;)
[06:32] <Kamion> :)
[06:32] <schweeb> Kinnison: he meant kamion
[06:33] <dredg> Kinnison: try http://niall.evil.ie/ubuntu 
[06:33] <Kinnison> dredg: looking
[06:33] <dredg> Kinnison: if 2.35 kills your family/eats your pets/steals your last rolo then i'll disavow all knowledge of your intentions
[06:34] <Kinnison> yep
[06:34] <dredg> :)
[06:34] <Kamion> schweeb: I doubt he did, actually :)
[06:34] <schweeb> oh well, heh
[06:35] <schweeb> Kamion: oh, didn't realize kinnison = daniels
[06:35] <Kamion> kinnison definitely != daniels :)
[06:35] <Kinnison> Kamion: can I burn him, can I can I?
[06:36] <Kinnison> dredg: well, it didn't kill gaim dead
[06:36] <schweeb> bah
[06:36] <Kinnison> dredg: when my RHEL toting friend is back I'll try it
[06:36] <Kinnison> dredg: thanks for the preview
[06:36] <schweeb> I'll stfu
[06:36] <mjg59> zul: Yeah, that swsusp patch is obviously correct
[06:36] <mjg59> (And fixes some data corruption issues)
[06:36] <zul> mjg59: ill push to fabbione for -27
[06:36] <Kamion> schweeb: (there's an important extra "Silver" in the name ...)
[06:36] <dredg> Kinnison: good start :) you'll have to restart gaim (though i assume you know that)
[06:36] <Kinnison> dredg: Yep; and did
[06:36] <dredg> Kinnison: good stuff, let me know if it works...
[06:37] <Kinnison> dredg: I assume I don't need server support for this to work
[06:37] <dredg> Kinnison: no, it's client<->client
[06:38] <mantiena> hi all
[06:38] <schweeb> Kamion: heh, oops.  too similar of names
[06:38] <Kinnison> dredg: good good
[06:38] <mjg59> zul: Cool, thanks
[06:39] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ooo-amd64 uploading later tonight, I need to run off for a couple of hours now.
[06:39] <dholbach> bye Mithrandir 
[06:40] <dredg> Kinnison: let me know how you get on. i can install some version of rhel on my laptop or on another partition for testing
[06:40] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: thank you so much :)
[06:40] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: my pleasure.  You owe me beer when we meet. :)
[06:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: awesome
[06:41] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: definitely ;)
[06:42] <lamont> brb even
[06:43] <T-Bone> lamont: think about some mail whenever you can... :)
[06:45] <T-Bone> that was quick :)
[06:45] <lamont> yeah
[06:45] <lamont> I said brb after all.
[06:50] <svenl> daniels: ah, i believe i have the pcigart fallback patch, appending to the bug report.
[06:51] <mantiena> mvo: hi, are you online ? I have some suggestions (sort of bugreports) about package management to you ;)
[06:53] <mvo> mantiena: can you send to me by mail? I'm in a meeting right now 
[06:54] <mvo> mantiena: we can talk tonight (in ~3-4h) or tomorrow :)
[06:54] <mantiena> mvo: ok, I can wait
[06:55] <mvo> mantiena: thanks! I'm looking forward to talk with you :)
[06:55] <svenl> daniels: there, i also have the patch for the pci fallback, untested though, but seems transparent enough.
[06:56] <svenl> Now, X should be solved, and i can see about the kernel patch backport for 2.6.10 kernel marvell gige support, and then test the yaboot stuff once Kamion has tested it.
[06:57] <svenl> Kamion has ported yaboot-installer.
[06:58] <mjg59> Anyone with an HP laptop around?
[06:59] <fabbione> mjg59: i have a compaq
[06:59] <mjg59> fabbione: HP Compaq or pre-merger?
[07:00] <fabbione> pre-
[07:00] <mjg59> Ah, right. Probably not the same, then.
[07:00] <fabbione> Armada M700
[07:00] <trukulo> mjg59, me
[07:00] <trukulo> nx9005
[07:00] <mjg59> trukulo: Does your sleep button generate ACPI events?
[07:00] <trukulo> mjg59, yes
[07:01] <trukulo> i mean, no
[07:01] <trukulo> i don't have sleep button
[07:01] <mjg59> Ah. Heh.
[07:01] <trukulo> but lid does
[07:01] <mjg59> This has an ACPI sleep button that appears to do nothing
[07:01] <ogra> sounds like acer
[07:01] <trukulo> mjg59, use xev to see if key is being logged
[07:02] <trukulo> you know what i mean
[07:02] <mjg59> trukulo: Yeah. No keycode that I can see.
[07:03] <trukulo> mjg59, it's a keyboard problem then, i have the same problem with mute button
[07:03] <trukulo> there was a patch for kernels, omnibook patch, i think
[07:04] <mjg59> The DSDT has a sleep button in it, though, which confuses me
[07:34] <Cym> gday
[07:35] <Cym> Are there any apache developers around?
[07:36] <dholbach> Cym: they are all in a meeting
[07:36] <Cym> awe thanks dholbach
[07:50] <mjg59> Clearlooks looks funny when things have those bouncy left to right to left progress bars
[07:50] <T-Bone> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7468
[07:50] <T-Bone> Kamion: ^^^ any clue?
[07:50] <Nafallo> mjg59: agreed :-)
[07:54] <Kamion> T-Bone: correct, the live CD cloop is ancient
[07:54] <T-Bone> Kamion: ok. I'll post a comment explaining that
[07:54] <T-Bone> Kamion: the blocker for cloop is mozilla shit, right?
[07:55] <Kamion> T-Bone: I have the dates and such; I'll reply
[07:55] <T-Bone> ?
[07:56] <Kamion> lamont: all cloop builds on ia64 for some time have died with:
[07:56] <Kamion> rm: cannot remove directory `/build/chroot-livecd//dev': Device or resource busy
[07:56] <Kamion> lamont: can that be cleaned up so that we can at least see the current status?
[07:57] <lamont> yeah
[07:57] <Kamion> T-Bone: but yes, it's firefox AFAIK
[07:57] <T-Bone> sigh
[07:58] <T-Bone> i wonder if we could discuss ia64 a bit during the meeting :P
[07:58] <T-Bone> Kamion: your "I'll reply" meant you'll reply to the bugreport?
[07:58] <T-Bone> because it's been assigned to me, you see..
[07:58] <Kamion> T-Bone: oh, I see; well, you can if you like :)
[07:58] <T-Bone> err
[07:58] <Kamion> I just replied though, since I had the date when it was last built to hand
[07:59] <Kamion> and I figured you would not have that easily accessible
[07:59] <T-Bone> 'like' might not be the word I'd use ;)
[07:59] <T-Bone> indeed
[07:59] <T-Bone> i shall thank you
[07:59] <T-Bone> 8)
[07:59] <Kamion> and it seemed like useful information
[08:00] <lamont> Kamion: fresh build launched
[08:01] <T-Bone> though i'm pretty convinced that's a combination of things, since it doesn't affect debian but is reproduceable with debian packages
[08:01] <T-Bone> unfortunately i'm clueless wrt firefox and that kind of stuff
[08:07] <mxpxpod> fabbione: ping
[08:08] <fabbione> pong
[08:09] <Seveas> ...or tetris
[08:09] <mxpxpod> fabbione: how long does it take to make a linux-image?
[08:09] <GheRivero> res
[08:09] <fabbione> it depends from a lot of things
[08:09] <fabbione> from 30 minutes to several hours
[08:09] <mxpxpod> fabbione: I'm waiting for 2.6.11... I tried building my own, but it didn't work quite right
[08:09] <thom> mxpxpod: how fast is your machine, which architecture, ...
[08:09] <tseng> daniels: dude. dlloader support for nvidia
[08:11] <fabbione> .11 is no priority for me right now
[08:11] <mx|gone> fabbione: I figured :)
[08:12] <fabbione> we are going to release with .10
[08:12] <fabbione> and i might ask elmo to remove .11 from hoary
[08:12] <fabbione> that is the sanest thing to do 
[08:12] <fabbione> to avoid confusion
[08:12] <mx|gone> fabbione: ah, ok
[08:12] <mx|gone> gotta go
[08:12] <T-Bone> fabbione: definitely
[08:20] <crimsun> fabbione: I agree with removing .11 from universe
[08:21] <trukulo> fabbione, i agree
[08:21] <trukulo> fabbione, and put lion with broken leg as hoary wallpaper
[08:22] <trukulo> http://mercurio.homeip.net/ficheros/ubuntu-lion.png
[08:44] <pitti> ogra: you can try to find out the hal slowness; I have no idea about it and it works for me
[08:44] <ogra> pitti: hal slowness ?
[08:44] <ogra> pitti: not here
[08:45] <pitti> ogra: later
[08:45] <ogra> pitti: was fixed by an upload right before my last patch went in
[08:45] <pitti> ogra: oh, cool
[08:45] <ogra> i told you back then ;)
[08:45] <ogra> youre to busy ;)
[08:46] <pitti> ogra: #6879 and #6002
[08:46] <pitti> ogra: I think this might still be an issue
[08:46] <pitti> ogra: now that you know the hal guts... :-)
[08:46] <ogra> pitti: i'll look at them
[08:46] <pitti> cool, thanks
[08:46] <ogra> :)
[08:46] <mdke> are you guys in a meeting?
[08:47] <mdke> don't want to disturb if so
[08:47] <tseng> yes, but I can try and help you
[08:47] <mdke> tseng, thanks its simple. I want to know if our wiki can handle icon insertion with the MoinMoin markup.
[08:48] <tseng> as in an image?
[08:48] <mdke> specifically the images hosted on the wiki
[08:48] <mdke> like those which appear on the FrontPage for example
[08:48] <tseng> can you just try it?
[08:48] <mdke> i have
[08:48] <mdke> and i've searched a lot
[08:49] <tseng> you know more than I do, unfortunately
[08:49] <mdke> its the sort of thing that one person might know
[08:49] <sm> I can answer that, if you point me to an example of the markup
[08:49] <mdke> sm, of moinmoin markup?
[08:49] <sm> yah
[08:49] <mdke> erm
[08:49] <mdke> RestrictedFormats
[08:50] <mdke> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
[08:50] <mdke> for cliccability
[08:51] <sm> ok, what should I search for at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats/src
[08:51] <mdke> sm, what do you mean?
[08:51] <sm> if this is OT, let's go private
[08:51] <mdke> ok
[08:52] <thom> Kamion: are you coming down to gllug tomorrow?
[08:55] <Kamion> thom: yep
[08:55] <Kamion> thom: see you there?
[08:55] <thom> coolcool
[08:55] <thom> indeed
[08:57] <svenl> Kamion: you have email.
[08:58] <svenl> Kamion: please tell me ASAP once you flash the prom, as i would like to know the result. There should be no problem, but it is for my own peace of mind.
[08:58] <Kamion> svenl: ok, will do
[08:59] <svenl> :)
[08:59] <Kamion> this is to help out archive-copier
[09:00] <Kamion> I may rename to something other than Task: at some point, to avoid them showing up in aptitude
[09:01] <thom> so, on the dvd front - buying such a best, should i be looking at dvd-rw or dvd+rw? (assuming i can't find a burner capable of both)
[09:02] <thom> "such a beast"
[09:02] <Kamion> I went DVD+RW, not with any actual knowledge though
[09:02] <Kamion> actually "DVD+-R/RW"
[09:02] <Kamion> whatever that means :)
[09:02] <Kamion> 40 quid or so from dabs
[09:03] <thom> that's pretty good
[09:03] <Kamion> svenl: yaboot-installer already does the append="console=..." thing :)
[09:04] <svenl> Kamion: cool.
[09:04] <svenl> Kamion: i was not sure, as serial console and pmacs, well ...
[09:06] <Kamion> svenl: it's not for console= specifically, it's for anything after the -- in /proc/cmdline
[09:07] <svenl> Kamion: ah, ... I added console before -- in yaboot.conf.
[09:07] <svenl> Kamion: BTW, there is something fishy again with the modules ?
[09:07] <Kamion> modules?
[09:08] <svenl> the kernel modules .udeb.
[09:09] <svenl> insmod /lib/modules/2.6.10-4-powerpc/kernel/drivers/ide/pci/via82cxxx.ko
[09:09] <svenl> FATAL: Error inserting via82cxxx (/lib/modules/2.6.10-4-powerpc/kernel/drivers/ide/pci/via82cxxx.ko): Invalid module format
[09:10] <svenl> mmm, the modules are there, so maybe a module/kernel diff in the netboot images? I just downloaded them from the daily netboot builds.
[09:10] <fabbione> that smells of ABI breakage
[09:10] <fabbione> but i386 seems ok
[09:10] <fabbione> so i doubt it can have destroyed the ppc one
[09:11] <svenl> fabbione: yeah, but maybe i just got a bad vmlinux for my initrd.gz, but i guess there is no way to check that.
[09:12] <svenl> oh well more test tomorrow.
[09:12] <Mitario> hey everyone
[09:14] <mdz> ogra: I can't talk right now, but will you be here later to discuss hwdb rollout?
[09:14] <ogra> mdz: sure, for you always
[09:14] <mdz> thanks
[09:16] <jani> mako ping
[09:19] <zenrox> have a question
[09:19] <zenrox> the nvidia module ant loading with the new kernel
[09:20] <fabbione> zenrox: works here fine
[09:20] <fabbione> zenrox: what kernel are you using?
[09:21] <zenrox> well i tried to do a modprobe it gives me a fatel error
[09:21] <zenrox> 2.6.10-26
[09:21] <fabbione> zenrox: what kernel are you using?
[09:21] <fabbione> and what version of linux-restricted modules?
[09:21] <zenrox> same
[09:21] <fabbione> no
[09:21] <fabbione> what version of l-r-m are you using?
[09:21] <fabbione> there is no l-r-m -26
[09:22] <zenrox> l-r-m 686- 2.6.10-6
[09:24] <zenrox> so how do i fix it
[09:25] <fabbione> dpkg -p linux-restricted-modules-2.6.10-4-686 | grep Version
[09:25] <fabbione> that version is old
[09:25] <fabbione> you need to upgrade l-r-m
[09:25] <zenrox> ok
[09:29] <zenrox> whats the name of it on apt-get
[09:31] <thom> night all
[09:32] <ogra> gute nacht thom
[09:32] <fabbione> the one i pasted above
[09:33] <daniels> god, why did I give STA in the UK my email address?  they're spamming me to tell me that I could travel to Sydney for only GBP399
[09:34] <Treenaks> daniels: well, maybe you want to go there some day
[09:34] <daniels> Treenaks: not likely :P
[09:35] <daniels> but yeah, it costs me about $au65 (for reference: around GBP27) to fly there
[09:35] <zenrox> fabbione: i wont install
[09:35] <zenrox> says its allready upto date
[09:36] <fabbione> zenrox: you don't have the latest version. 2.6.10.3 is the last one
[09:36] <fabbione> -5 or something
[09:36] <zenrox> i have lrm 2.6.10-6
[09:36] <zenrox> and it wont install the other one casue it says its allready uptodate
[09:36] <fabbione> and it is not the last one
[09:37] <fabbione> zenrox: do: dselect update -> apt-get install dist-upgrade OR apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[09:37] <metallikop> I have a question about a lintian error I'm receiving for package grubconf
[09:37] <metallikop> W: grubconf source: unknown-architecture
[09:37] <metallikop> The arcitectures in the control file are :
[09:37] <metallikop> Architecture: amd64 i386 hurd-i386 netbsd-i386
[09:38] <metallikop> is this a legit lintian error, if so, how would I resolve?
[09:38] <zenrox> fabbione: it upgraded then still wont instert the module
[09:38] <ogra> metallikop,  hurd-i386 netbsd-i386 ?
[09:38] <Treenaks> metallikop: try adding commas
[09:39] <metallikop> it doesn't like commas
[09:39] <metallikop> Treenaks: I tried that already
[09:39] <ogra> i dont think the buildds know these arches
[09:39] <fabbione> zenrox: if your system was inconsistet at kernel level, i would suggest at least to try a reboot
[09:39] <metallikop> seb128: are you around?
[09:40] <seb128> ?
[09:40] <zenrox> fabbione:  ok but it probly still wont work
[09:40] <metallikop> this package was previously maintained by yourself
[09:40] <metallikop> grubconf
[09:40] <seb128> not afaik
[09:40] <seb128> that's news
[09:40] <metallikop> grubconf (0.5.1-4ubuntu1) hoary; urgency=low
[09:40] <metallikop>   * Rebuilt with gnutls11.
[09:40] <metallikop>  -- Sebastien Bacher <seb128@canonical.com>  Thu,  6 Jan 2005 16:53:59 +0100
[09:40] <ogra> probably synced
[09:40] <metallikop> ahh
[09:41] <fabbione> seb128: everything that starts with *G* is your :-)
[09:41] <seb128> An upload for a transition is different of maintaining a package
[09:41] <metallikop> fair enough :)
[09:41] <seb128> fabbione: ah ah :)
[09:41] <fabbione> where is jdub when i need him :-)
[09:41] <metallikop> well, what would be the best way to resolve this?
[09:41] <metallikop> remove those unknown archs?
[09:41] <ogra> fabbione: ring him up, he slept enough
[09:42] <lamont> metallikop: that'd be one way
[09:42] <metallikop> is that the _preferred_ way?
[09:42] <lamont> other alternatives include adding an override to make it shut up, or just ignoring the warning
[09:42] <Riddell> lamont: any idea what the status of kdeaccessibility is?  It's compiled fine but marked as Uploaded not Installed
[09:42] <lamont> Uploaded for very long == NEW
[09:43] <lamont> well, almost always anyway
[09:44] <fabbione> who has a webcam and knows how to setup flumotion?
[09:44] <ogra> metallikop: i dont think we have to expect netbsd or hurd in the near future (at least not before the package needs to be touched aain)
[09:44] <fabbione> after the wizard it hangs grabbing from the webcam
[09:44] <lamont> Riddell: it was built a while ago, wasn't it...
[09:44] <Riddell> lamont: yeah, 8th
[09:45] <metallikop> i'd have to agree
[09:46] <lamont> Riddell: grumble
[09:47] <Riddell> lamont: what's the crack?
[09:48] <lamont> log archived..
[09:49] <Kamion> fabbione: hm, that's two ABI-sounding problems with -26 reported so far, sounds suspicious
[09:50] <lamont> daemon-20050309-2150.log.gz:Mar  8 12:30:03 buildd-mail: Subject: kdeaccessibility_3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu1_i386.changes REJECTED
[09:50] <lamont>  047f2f41f962decc00acc0222338a1b9 82358 contrib/utils optional kttsd-contrib-plugins_3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu1_i386.deb
[09:51] <lamont> I'm gonna bet on that one.
[09:51] <lamont> needs an overrides update by elmo
[09:51] <lamont> then it'll just be NEW instead of REJECTed
[09:52] <Riddell> what's the likely problem with it?
[10:02] <zul> later
[10:02] <zul> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6553
[10:02] <zul> oops...wrong window
[10:04] <Riddell> lamont: do I need to poke elmo?
[10:06] <robertj_> I did a fresh install of the hoary preview and Natuilus doesn't handle sftp by default, is this a known missing package omitted for space reasons?
[10:07] <mdz> daniels: ping?
[10:10] <mvo> back
[10:10] <Mitario> mvo, here?
[10:10] <mvo> hey Mitario 
[10:10] <Mitario> heya :)
[10:10] <mvo> how are you :) ?
[10:10] <dholbach> wb mvo 
[10:10] <Mitario> mvo, yeah fine :-) you?
[10:10] <Mitario> finally have time to do some maintainance work -> weekends
[10:10] <daniels> mdz: pong
[10:11] <mvo> Mitario: wonderfull! you are busy with real-life right now? school stuff?
[10:12] <robertj_> no davs handler either
[10:12] <lamont> Riddell: well, someone does, but he's ESLEEP
[10:12] <Mitario> yeah i was this week, school, gf, work :)
[10:12] <mvo> Mitario: ahhh ... gf ;)
[10:12] <lamont> Mithrandir: can 6438 be closed?
[10:12] <Mitario> mvo, =_
[10:12] <Riddell> lamont: what's the problem with that package?
[10:12] <Mitario> mvo, =)
[10:13] <mvo> Mitario: a account for froud would be cool, he is working on the update-manager documentation right now
[10:13] <Mitario> yes i got the messages :)
[10:13] <mvo> otherwise, I think we are in pretty good shape for release
[10:13] <Mitario> was just about to create the account but I don't know a way other than IRC to contact him
[10:13] <mvo> Mitario: ups, sorry. I should have forwarded you a mail from him :/
[10:13] <daniels> mdz: pong/me yawns, realises it's after 8am, glares at lamont for making him sleepy, and heads to bed.
[10:14] <daniels> erk
[10:14] <Mitario> mvo, oh, and I was wondering if you added the Polish translation and i18n improvements by Zygmunt Krynicki
[10:14] <Mitario> mvo, oh, i'll check again
[10:14] <mdz> daniels: er, you're still awake?
[10:14] <Mitario> mvo, the only message I have here is that fround wants to help us :)
[10:15] <daniels> mdz: i bleed for ubuntu
[10:15] <Mitario> wait, i'll beagle for it
[10:15] <mvo> Mitario: I merged the i18n stuff, didn't I CC you?
[10:15] <Mitario> mvo, uh i guess not
[10:15] <daniels> although I have passed out a couple of times
[10:15] <mdz> daniels: I assumed you missed the development meeting because you were asleep
[10:16] <Mitario> mvo, but thats fine :) i just wasn't sure if it was comitted already, so good :-)
[10:16] <daniels> mdz: lurked for most of it, was passed out for some
[10:16] <lamont> daniels: ??
[10:16] <daniels> alarmingly, my chair makes a far better bed than my bed (i don't wake up sore)
[10:17] <daniels> in any case, i wasn't really with it much (still feeling rather unwell, plus it was late), and nothing came up relevant to me, so I just lurked
[10:17] <lamont> Riddell: kttsd-contrib-plugins needs to be added/fixed in the overrides file, and then the uploads reprocessed
[10:18] <Mitario> btw, I must say the new Human theme rocks, compliments for the one who created it :)
[10:18] <lamont> Mithrandir: still around?
[10:21] <mdz> daniels: what would be the best way to retrieve the string identifier from a monitor?
[10:21] <mdz> daniels: is that a DDC thing?
[10:24] <lamont> eep. must fetch kidlets
[10:26] <mdz> Mitario: I will pass on your feedback
[10:28] <robertj_> mdz: should I file a but about nautilus not handling sftp/webdav by default?
[10:29] <robertj_> %s/but/bug
[10:30] <Mitario> mdz, thanks :)
[10:31] <mdz> robertj_: it does handle them by default
[10:37] <Mitario> mvo, oh, by the way i forwarded a Greek update-notifier translation to you
[10:37] <robertj_> mdz: I just did a fresh install and i'm getting the error that they don't have a handler
[10:37] <mvo> Mitario: don't you have access to the u-n svn?
[10:37] <mdz> robertj_: a fresh install of hoary preview?
[10:38] <robertj_> yeah
[10:38] <Mitario> mvo, yeah I have, but i still haven't checked out my local copy :)
[10:38] <Mitario> I can't even remember the address anymore
[10:38] <mvo> Mitario: heh :)
[10:38] <mvo> I can commit it
[10:39] <Mitario> mvo, it is still kerneljanitors right?
[10:39] <mvo> Mitario: yep
[10:39] <Mitario> ahh, ok, i found it then :)
[10:40] <Mitario> damn I really should spend less time reading mail and do more hacking/usefull stuff
[10:40] <robertj_> mdz: i386 preview cd install, and no love from sftp handlers
[10:40] <tritium> The latest kernel updates break loading of at least some modules, such as nvidia, and prevents the mounting iso9660
[10:40] <tritium> from dmesg: disagrees about version of symbol struct_module
[10:44] <mdz> robertj_: ok, please file a bug.  Please collect as much information as you can (e.g. ~/.xsession-errors), because it's likely that this is working for others (since it works for me)
[10:44] <Mitario> mvo, so you think we can release update-manager 0.38?
[10:44] <robertj_> mdz: could it be the ssh server?
[10:44] <robertj_> and a bogus error msg?
[10:45] <mvo> Mitario: it depends on latest python-apt and synaptic
[10:45] <Mitario> latest released? or latest tla
[10:46] <mvo> python-apt 0.5.36ubuntu1
[10:46] <Mitario> is it available upstream somewhere?
[10:46] <mvo> synaptic-svn (but be releaed very soon)
[10:46] <Mitario> ok
[10:46] <Mitario> keep me updated :-)
[10:47] <mdz> robertj_: I don't know
[10:50] <robertj_> hrmm, not playing nice with my warty machine upstairs :(
[10:50] <robertj_> nothing in xsession except wining about gnome-cups-icon continaully
[10:56] <mvo> Mitario: did you commited the translation
[10:57] <Mitario> mvo, no, not yet, shall I?
[10:57] <mvo> Mitario: go ahead :)
[10:57] <Mitario> ok :)
[10:57] <mvo> Mitario: if you have time
[10:59] <Mitario> mvo, yeah sure :)
[10:59] <mvo> cool, thanks :)
[10:59] <robertj_> mdz: when you initially create the connection do you do it through the connect to server dialog?
[11:03] <mdz> robertj_: yes
[11:07] <Mitario> mvo, ok comitted
[11:09] <mvo> Mitario: great, thanks
[11:11] <Mitario> mvo, did you have fround's e-mail?
[11:17] <zul> heylo
[11:19] <toresbe> g'day
[11:44] <HiddenWolf> Why does evolution have an icon in the office menu?
[11:44] <mdz> thom: ping?
[11:45] <pi> I upgraded to hoary, and XFree is still installed and running by default...does anybody know what i can do to run Xorg instead?
[11:46] <HiddenWolf> pi: install xserver-xorg
[11:46] <jon1012> pi, dpkg-reconfigure Xorg ?
[11:46] <jon1012> oh well, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg if you have already installed it
[11:47] <pi> it is installed, i will try dpkg-reconfigure
[11:47] <jon1012> no ? :)
[11:47] <jon1012> ok :)
[11:50] <pi> jon: do you know if this configuration does anything other than create an Xorg.conf?
[11:52] <jon1012> yes, normally it allows you to choose between xservers
[11:53] <pi> hmm ok i guess i will bare through it then (by nature i tend not to trust the auto config tools because of dual monitors)
[11:54] <mdz> Kamion: ping?
[11:54] <mdz> thom: (re: firefox upload)
[11:54] <mdz> Kamion: (re: $LANG in d-i for xserver-xorg.config, #7138)
[11:54] <jon1012> ok
[11:55] <mdz> pi: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[11:55] <mdz> pi: in the future, please ask support questions on #ubuntu, this channel is for development discussion
[11:55] <dholbach> i'm out ... see you later
[11:56] <pi> mdz: i was referred here from #ubuntu,  it was "odd behavior"
[11:56] <mdz> pi: it's a known bug that upgrades from Warty to Hoary are not perfect yet; it is necessary to pay attention to the proposed upgrade before executing it (or packages that you need may be removed)
[11:57] <pi> mdz: that's understandable, thanks
[11:59] <mvo> bye dholbach