[02:08] <mdke_laptop> enrico, you're up late ;)
[02:09] <enrico> mdke_laptop: yes
[02:09] <mdke_laptop> poveraccio
[02:09] <enrico> I started working late, I finish working late
[02:09] <mdke_laptop> lol
[02:10] <mdke_laptop> how much do you sleep?
[02:10] <enrico> I try to keep on a 8 hours per night average
[02:10] <mdke_laptop> ah meno male
[02:10] <mdke_laptop> me too
[02:11] <enrico> mdke_laptop: long periods of less I feel they are not healthy
[02:11] <mdke_laptop> some people seem to manage it
[02:11] <mdke_laptop> not me tho i need sleep
[02:11] <enrico> mdke_laptop: but you're up late as well :)
[02:12] <mdke_laptop> enrico, i'm a student
[02:12] <mdke_laptop> i don't have work in the morning or anything
[02:12] <mdke_laptop> i'm on GMT too
[02:13] <mdke_laptop> well done for calming the list down
[02:14] <mdke_laptop> your reply was very well measured
[02:14] <enrico> mdke_laptop: thanks a lot
[02:15] <enrico> I just can't undestand why everyone keeps reacting like that: nothing changed, really
[02:15] <enrico> Maybe people still hasn't read my replies
[02:15] <mdke_laptop> check now
[02:15] <enrico> checking
[02:16] <mdke_laptop> but yeah, it was a kneejerk reaction
[02:16] <mdke_laptop> hope i didn't contribute in any way
[02:17] <enrico> No, I think Corey did all of it
[02:17] <enrico> He has the tendency of writing "our new ideas" when it's instead his new ideas
[02:17] <mdke_laptop> meno male
[02:17] <enrico> that scares
[02:18] <enrico> I've seen very good feedback about your wiki work so far
[02:18] <mdke_laptop> ?
[02:18] <enrico> Jeff wrote you a really positive mail
[02:18] <mdke_laptop> i've done nothing
[02:18] <mdke_laptop> oh ok
[02:18] <mdke_laptop> yeah he is nice
[02:18] <mdke_laptop> enrico, i'm trying to try and get an Italian wiki comunity going
[02:19] <enrico> mdke_laptop: there should be one
[02:19] <enrico> I don't know their status, though
[02:19] <mdke_laptop> there is
[02:19] <mdke_laptop> but its stagnant
[02:20] <mdke_laptop> so i'm gonna tidy it up and import some docs and see if it will take off
[02:20] <enrico> I know there were some problems with the guy who started it, but I dont' know now
[02:20] <mdke_laptop> heh
[02:20] <mdke_laptop> i haven't heard both sides of the story yet
[02:22] <mdke_laptop> but seems there was a power struggle
[02:29] <mdke_laptop> whatever, i'm gonna keep out of it
[02:33] <mdke_laptop> :)
[02:34] <mdke_laptop> hi trickie
[02:35] <trickie> hellp
[02:35] <trickie> hello
[02:35] <trickie> :)
[02:36] <mdke_laptop> pleased to meet you
[02:36] <mdke_laptop> i'm matt
[02:36] <trickie> you too matt!
[02:36] <trickie> i am Nick Loeve
[02:36] <mdke_laptop> :)
[02:36] <enrico> trickie: hi!  You mail didn't get to the list because it was too big
[02:37] <enrico> I now seized control of the list admin interface (finally!) and approved it
[02:37] <trickie> thanks enrico
[02:37] <trickie> i should have probably just sent it to you
[02:38] <trickie> but anyway
[02:38] <trickie> the poxml utilities look good
[02:38] <trickie> should help make translations easier to maintain
[02:38] <enrico> trickie: there's the tricky issue of translating the screenshots
[02:38] <trickie> i haven't used them before, but am familiar with gettext
[02:38] <trickie> yes
[02:39] <trickie> i was just about to say that!
[02:39] <enrico> trickie: but I think we can smartly decide to completely overlook that problem at the moment ;)
[02:39] <trickie> enrico, ;)
[02:39] <trickie> enrico, so do you know what has been happening, ie with Sean/Corey?
[02:39] <trickie> enrico, seems to be some chaos at the moment
[02:40] <enrico> Yes.  I sent various mails to the list now trying to explain that nothing really changed
[02:40] <enrico> I've contacted Sean privately telling him and asking him to please stay
[02:40] <trickie> enrico, great
[02:40] <enrico> I hope things are going to settle down
[02:41] <trickie> enrico, Yes! Me too!
[02:41] <trickie> enrico, We were going so well!
[02:44] <enrico> well, we're still going so well
[02:44] <enrico> my biggest problem is what to do after the QuickGuide just not to lose the rhythm :)
[02:45] <trickie> enrico, yep. I would like to help to get the translations happening, i can't speak any other languages, but in terms of the prcoess
[02:46] <trickie> enrico, i would also like to help Sean on the Admin Guide (if he is still on board)
[02:46] <enrico> trickie: not even Welsh or Scottish? :)
[02:46] <enrico> I think you should send a mail to Sean about your offer on the Admin Guide
[02:46] <trickie> enrico, ha ha ha i can try with Australian slang
[02:46] <trickie> enrico, ok, i'll mail him
[02:46] <enrico> Da Bonzo Guide!
[02:46] <mdke_laptop> lol
[02:47] <trickie> I have to go now guys (at work!), but i will talk to soon
[02:47] <enrico> I think you'll find me in bed
[02:47] <enrico> but maybe I'll be awaye when you get out of work
[02:47] <trickie> enrico, :) no probs, see on Sat UTC
[02:47] <trickie> !
[02:48] <trickie> mdke_laptop, see ya, nice to meet ya
[02:48] <mdke_laptop> same
[02:48] <mdke_laptop> cya again
[02:54] <Burgundavia> hello all
[02:54] <enrico> Hello Burgundavia 
[02:55] <enrico> Burgundavia: it seems like your plans were not that popular after all
[02:55] <Burgundavia> I noticed that
[02:57] <Burgundavia> Why did all this come out today?
[02:58] <Burgundavia> why not earlier?
[02:58] <enrico> I think that when peple saw Sean go away, then they thought that your ideas had been accepted and all the work done would be thrown away
[02:58] <Burgundavia> oh
[02:59] <Burgundavia> but everybody has a voice
[03:00] <enrico> But not necessarily they want to speak.  Many are people that just joined and liked the game, but didn't feel like they wanted to lead the project.  If it went on a nice direction, then they would be fine; else, they would go elsewhere
[03:00] <enrico> That's my feeling, at least.
[03:01] <enrico> And I think they understood from your mails that your proposals had been somehow approved by some powers that be
[03:02] <mdke_laptop> the confusion is the wiki email
[03:02] <Burgundavia> I thought I was pretty clear that I was asking for thoughts. I guess not. I will be more careful in the future
[03:02] <enrico> Me too, I've been busy elsewhere for a couple of days, and when I came back and saw all your activity I thought you've been discussing and agreeing with all the others
[03:02] <mdke_laptop> people understood that the wiki was to replace the current docs, whereas i believe you intention was not that at all, but simply to argue for a change in wiki engine
[03:03] <Burgundavia> I had initially said the first, but tempered my ideas
[03:03] <Burgundavia> that was my bad
[03:03] <mdke_laptop> yeah
[03:03] <mdke_laptop> hence the confusion
[03:03] <enrico> I should make a ubuntu-doc report summarizing this all
[03:03] <mdke_laptop> lol
[03:03] <mdke_laptop> you see, corey said this:
[03:03] <mdke_laptop> Please add to this list. I/Enrico hope to have a list of specific and
[03:03] <mdke_laptop> concrete things that we can take to Canonical to get our wiki fixed.
[03:04] <Burgundavia> ah
[03:04] <Burgundavia> and coupled with my earlier talk about wikis
[03:04] <Burgundavia> ok
[03:04] <mdke_laptop> exactly
[03:04] <enrico> oh
[03:04] <mdke_laptop> bingo
[03:04] <enrico> mdke_laptop: thanks for showing that!
[03:04] <mdke_laptop> :)
[03:04] <Burgundavia> I didn't put those pieces together
[03:04] <enrico> I didn't feel like writing a UBuntu=doc report at 3:04, but it seems like I should
[03:04] <mdke_laptop> enrico, leave it til the morning
[03:04] <mdke_laptop> it will be easier
[03:05] <enrico> Probably, yes
[03:05] <mdke_laptop> and more lucid ;p
[03:05] <mdke_laptop> got work in the morning?
[03:05] <Burgundavia> yay, I fixed muine!
[03:05] <enrico> mdke_laptop: got work tomorrow, flexible times
[03:05] <Burgundavia> now I need to fix the quickguide
[03:07] <mdke_laptop> ok bed for me
[03:07] <mdke_laptop> i have a massive computer screen headache
[03:07] <mdke_laptop> nite
[03:44] <enrico> I'll definitely go to bed now
[03:52] <Burgundavia> cya
[08:18] <Burgundavia> ping
[09:48] <Burgundavia> hey
[09:50] <enrico> Hello!
[09:52] <Burgundavia> how is life?
[09:53] <enrico> Burgundavia: sleepy
[09:53] <Burgundavia> hmm
[09:53] <Burgundavia> is 10am there?
[09:55] <enrico> yes, and I went to bed at around 5
[09:55] <Burgundavia> ouch
[09:56] <Burgundavia> still haven't gone to bed yet
[11:15] <Kinnison> Morning all
[11:15] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: go to bed
[11:17] <abelli> Kinnison: ciao ciao ciao
[11:21] <Burgundavia> Kinnison: salut
[11:26] <sivang> Kinnison:    !
[11:27] <Kinnison> argh; it's been too long
[12:11] <mdke_laptop> j #ubuntu-it
[12:11] <mdke_laptop> sorry
[12:19] <mdke_laptop> morning anyway
[12:19] <Kinnison> Morning mdke_laptop 
[12:19] <mdke_laptop> :)
[12:21] <mdke_laptop> hope everyone is well
[12:21] <mdke_laptop> yes very thank
[12:21] <mdke_laptop> s
[12:21] <Kinnison> Still in Holborn?
[12:21] <mdke_laptop> heh
[12:21] <mdke_laptop> i'm in bed
[12:22] <mdke_laptop> work up late
[12:22] <mdke_laptop> i live in east london
[12:22] <mdke_laptop> *woke
[12:54] <Kinnison> joined?! please tell me that's an autojoin and not 'cos you're *still* awake...
[12:56] <Burgundavia> heh
[12:56] <Burgundavia> I malfed my sudoers
[12:56] <mdke_laptop> this boy is a machine
[12:56] <Kinnison> mdke_laptop: at this rate; I'll have to fly him over here and tie him to a bed to make him sleep
[12:56] <Burgundavia> Kinnison: do you have script with my name in it
[12:56] <Burgundavia> kinky
[12:57] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: No; I don't
[12:57] <Burgundavia> WHEN burgundavia JOINS ubuntu-doc AND time == late THEN chastise
[12:57] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: time==late when daniel==at_work
[12:57] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:57] <Burgundavia> time being as it is
[12:57] <mdke_laptop> but surely his body clock does not follow the hours of light
[12:58] <Burgundavia> not really
[12:58] <Kinnison> I found myself sleeping 18hrs a day instead
[12:59] <mdke_laptop> mmmm
[12:59] <mdke_laptop> 18 hours...
[01:01] <sivang> Kinnison: yes, it's a pain working like this
[04:27] <mdke> anyone here? quick question on the wiki
[04:29] <enrico> mdke: yes
[04:30] <mdke> enrico, the problem is this. Have a look at DocumentHowTo, under the Moin markup section. THe author has tried to make a template for a new page. But it goes wrong
[04:30] <mdke> the problem is he uses {{{ to introduce the template
[04:31] <mdke> then when he uses {{{ }}} within the body of the template, it closes the original {{{ tag
[04:31] <enrico> oh, horrid, yes
[04:31] <mdke> enrico, is it possible to avoid this?
[04:31] <mdke> i'm incorporating that page into HelpOnEditing
[04:32] <mdke> it would be a shame to scrap the idea of a template because it might be useful for users
[04:36] <mdke> enrico, ping
[04:36] <enrico> mdke: I'm trying to figure out
[04:36] <enrico> little luck so far
[04:37] <mdke> enrico, forse non se puo fa'
[04:38] <enrico> mdke: sembra di no
[04:39] <mdke> hmm
[04:39] <mdke> i won't include the template for now
[04:39] <enrico> mdke: saving the page
[04:39] <enrico> Reload it now
[04:39] <enrico> I made the best workaround I could
[04:40] <mdke> yes fair enough
[04:40] <mdke> will copy that
[04:40] <mdke> you're clever :)
[04:41] <mdke> ty
[04:41] <enrico> mdke: well, I would have preferred a better solution
[04:41] <enrico> mdke: that's another item for WikiWishlist, though
[04:42] <mdke> enrico, it's probably already on there but if not i will add it
[04:43] <mdke> enrico, HowDoc is obsolete?
[04:44] <enrico> mdke: not really obsolete, but moved away during a reorganization of the docteam pages
[04:44] <enrico> I left it there because there are things to salvage before deleting the page
[04:44] <mdke> ok
[04:45] <mdke> i'll salvage a few now
[04:48] <mdke> MoinMoin is now official way forward?
[04:54] <enrico> Yes, that's the default one
[04:54] <enrico> One should have good reasons to use other formats
[04:54] <mdke> hmm
[04:54] <mdke> what is zwiki?
[04:57] <enrico> mdke: the wiki we are using
[04:57] <mdke> hmm
[05:01] <mdke> the default is Structured Text?
[05:03] <enrico> yes.  in WikiWishlist there is an entry (from me) asking to change that to Moin
[05:03] <mdke> hmm
[05:03] <mdke> ok
[05:03] <mdke> HelpPage needs to be rehashed a bit
[05:03] <mdke> will do it later
[05:03] <mdke> bye for now
[08:17] <mdke> hands up if you know how to insert an icon into a wiki with MoinMoin
[08:19] <mdke> everyone sitting on their hands eh?
[08:21] <froud> mdke: I think everyone is in a meeting
[08:21] <mdke> k
[08:21] <mdke> a dev meeting?
[08:22] <froud> yes
[08:22] <froud> dunno much about wiki, but try this
[08:22] <froud> .. image:: IconUsers
[08:22] <froud>    :alt: IconUsers where did the picture go?
[08:22] <froud>    :align: right
[08:22] <froud>    :height: 36
[08:22] <froud>    :width: 36
[08:23] <mdke> wrong language
[08:23] <mdke> that doesn't work in MoinMoin
[08:24] <froud> as I said I dont kow much about wiki markup
[08:24] <mdke> i've trawled through the website
[08:24] <mdke> i'm slightly surprised we've chosen this markup as our default
[08:24] <mdke> its rubbish
[08:24] <mdke> oh well
[08:24] <mdke> i'll ask later
[08:24] <Kinnison> MoinMoin is common and thus well known
[08:25] <mdke> oooh
[08:25] <mdke> do you know how to insert icons?
[08:25] <Kinnison> Nope
[08:25] <mdke> :(
[08:25] <Kinnison> you can tell by my wiki page
[08:26] <mdke> lemme see
[08:26] <mdke> nothing wrong with that!
[08:26] <froud> isn't there a moin moin syntax document on the net somewhere
[08:26] <mdke> can you delete my comment from it?
[08:26] <Kinnison> why not find one of the pages which has an icon and check out the syntax?
[08:26] <mdke> froud, yeah i read em
[08:27] <mdke> Kinnison i haven't found one yet, all the ones with icons use different markup
[08:27] <Kinnison> maybe moinmoin can't do 'em
[08:27] <mdke> problem is not inserting images, its inserted the images from the wiki database
[08:27] <mdke> url images go in ok
[08:28] <mdke> this Alexander Poslavsky might know, is he still active?
[08:29] <Kinnison> attachment:fooimage.jpg ?
[08:29] <mdke> lemme try
[08:30] <mdke> no
[08:30] <mdke> on the moinmoin guide on their website it just says to use the name of the file with whitespace either side, but it doesn't seem to work
[08:31] <mdke> np
[08:31] <Kinnison> More than anything I blame zwiki
[08:32] <mdke> we are missing a macro i think
[09:14] <mdke> >_>
[09:14] <sm> oh, darn :)
[09:14] <mdke> np
[09:14] <mdke> sm is helping me with the icon issue
[09:14] <sm> enrico, anyone ? what do you think about renaming all IconImages to iconimage.png ?
[09:14] <sm> and fixing the pages which link them
[09:14] <sm> so that moin can recognize them
[09:14] <mdke> sm, i was gonna say, it will take time to amend all the Restructured Text pages
[09:15] <mdke> until then, there would have to be duplicates imo
[09:15] <sm> not too much.. how many places are these icons linked ?
[09:15] <sm> not too many I'm guessing
[09:15] <mdke> i think quite a lot
[09:15] <mdke> not sure how to tell
[09:16] <mdke> i will put it on the doc agenda
[09:16] <mdke> and email the list
[09:16] <sm> sounds good
[09:16] <mdke> i might not make the meeting tomorrow, so i'll put it on the agenda
[09:16] <sm> search should tell us  where they are
[09:16] <mdke> yeah
[09:16] <sm> the wiki's search, preferably - http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrontPage/searchwiki
[09:17] <mdke> good idea
[09:17] <mdke> yeah not too many
[09:17] <sm> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrontPage/searchwiki?expr=PicDocs
[09:17] <sm> hmm.. quite a few
[09:18] <mdke> that is one of the more commonly used ones
[09:18] <mdke> if the idea is to convert pages to MoinMOin anyway, then its doable
[09:18] <sm> anyway, many hands make light work, and I think it would be a better scheme
[09:18] <mdke> will take time tho
[09:18] <mdke> ok
[09:18] <mdke> cool
[09:18] <sm> but should be discussed in case there is some reason for the current naming
[09:18] <mdke> hmm
[09:18] <mdke> well i'll certainly put it up at the meeting agenda page
[09:19] <sm> cool.. thx mdke
[09:19] <sm> I'd better run
[09:19] <mdke> thank you for your help
[09:20] <sm> np
[09:31] <enrico> sm: what for?
[09:31] <enrico> moin can recognize them?
[09:32] <enrico> I've been looking for ages for a way to have moin show images!
[09:32] <enrico> sm, mdke: I'm happy to see you met!
[09:32] <sm> yes hi mdke.. matt ?
[09:32] <sm> <- simon
[09:33] <sm> enrico: moin requires the suffix to detect that it's an image
[09:35] <enrico> oh, ok!  That's why it doesn't work.  Then, yes, by all means, let's rename!
[09:35] <enrico> sm you probably have noticed there's been some recent activity of people looking at the wiki
[09:36] <enrico> some feedback came, some ideas
[09:36] <mdke> hi enrico
[09:36] <sm> I didn't.. where, ubuntu-doc ?
[09:37] <enrico> sm ubuntu-doc, yes. and this channel.  But most of that discussion is chaotic
[09:37] <mdke> lol
[09:37] <enrico> the last messages get a bit on track
[09:38] <sm> I haven't been on here too much lately
[09:38] <sm> I'll check the list
[09:38] <enrico> So there'll be a docteam meeting tomorrow at 23:00UTC, and Corey Burger's collecting items about the wiki: what doesn't work, what activities are being blocked by what doesn't work, what could be done to improve
[09:38] <sm> utc.. that sounds like 1500 my time
[09:38] <sm> with luck I'll make that
[09:39] <enrico> (which is a constructive way of channeling the "wiki sucks" frustration into something useful)
[09:39] <enrico> sm I thought you were french?
[09:39] <sm> irish
[09:39] <sm> living in california
[09:39] <enrico> Ah, ok
[09:40] <mdke> i'm gonna post the icon thing to WikiWishList tho
[09:40] <enrico> mdke: there should be an item from me there about images not working in moin
[09:40] <enrico> mdke: you can add to it
[09:41] <mdke> oh
[09:41] <mdke> images work tho
[09:42] <mdke> oh there is something in there by Alexander something
[09:42] <mdke> and he mentioned you sm
[09:43] <sm> but it seems a hopeless quest :)
[09:47] <mdke> right have added a comment to the wishlist
[09:47] <sm> aha, that was you mdke >:)
[09:47] <sm> "wikis"
[09:47] <mdke> nooooooo
[09:47] <mdke> where?
[09:48] <sm> in ubuntu-doc thread.. fyi I think a wiki is a collection of wiki pages
[09:48] <sm> but your call :)
[09:48] <mdke> sm, ok in future i will get it
[09:48] <mdke> sm, i am new
[09:48] <mdke> enrico, is it cool if I add the icon issue to the meeting agenda, in case i don't make it
[09:48] <sm> no problem.. thank you very much for the work
[09:49] <mdke> sm, not much done as eyt
[09:51] <mdke> hmm
[09:51] <mdke> i'm off home
[09:51] <mdke> c later
[10:00] <sm> oh now you leave, just when I get to your "wiki engine is rubbish"...
[10:00] <sm> 8-)
[10:04] <sm> lively discussion
[10:05] <sm> I have clarifications to offer, tomorrow's chat hopefully
[10:11] <enrico> maskie: it's cool!
[10:11] <enrico> mdke: it's cool!
[10:12] <enrico> sm: I had something for him as well
[10:12] <enrico> I wanted do tell him "please put icons everywhere"
[10:12] <enrico> I wanted to use icons all the time, but I couldn't figure out how to do it with moin
[10:12] <enrico> Now that there is a way, I feel like it's Icon Party :)
[10:17] <sm> yay :)
[10:18] <sm> be afraid.. enrico is coming with ICONS
[10:19] <enrico> I actually have no time for that
[10:19] <enrico> I would have been happy if mdke did it O:-)
[10:20] <sm> do you think anyone links to the icons besides the wiki pages ?
[10:21] <sm> well if so I'm sure they can update
[10:28] <sm> Boot.png ?
[10:28] <sm> IconBoot.png ?
[10:29] <sm> some have multiple words in the name
[10:31] <sm> tomorrow
[10:33] <enrico> dashes?
[10:33] <enrico> icon-boot.png ?
[10:34] <sm> is there some doc related reason why they need to begin with icon ?
[10:34] <enrico> no idea
[10:34] <sm> are they standard names used in non-wiki docs also
[10:34] <enrico> maybe namespace tidyness?
[10:35] <enrico> I've never heard of guidelines about image names
[10:35] <enrico> nor of common non-written practices
[10:35] <sm> it's just that they seem to be standard gnome icons
[10:36] <sm> I'll wait till after the meeting discussion
[10:37] <enrico> sm ok
[10:40] <sm> see you
[11:30] <mdke> wb