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ograhmmm, /dev  12G  4,6G  5,9G  44% /.dev why is it this big ?12:16
ograahh, nm, i'm blind12:16
Seveasogra, you know how df works, right? :)12:16
ograpartly, yes (never hecked the source ;) )12:17
ograchecked even12:17
zullamont: ping12:17
zulcheck out kernel12:19
zuler, #-kernel12:19
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zulabi breakage12:20
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thommdz: ack12:23
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thommdz: sorry, sleep time. 12:37
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zulkernel is building bbiab12:38
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mvomdz: send you a mail about the package-queueing12:45
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mdzmvo: thanks01:00
mvomdz: do you have a moment for two additional questions?01:03
mdzmvo: yes01:03
mvomdz: I think #7419 is a apt bug, how should we proceed? trying to solve it in apt? or trying to work around it?01:04
ograthom: bah, sleep is for past release.....01:05
mdzmvo: we should work around it; I think changing the problem resolver would be crazy01:05
mdzmvo: maybe for hoary+1 we should think about using aptitude's resolver01:05
mvomdz: I looked at aptitudes algorithm and it's not really seperated, but I agree that we should try to fix it. IIRC apt-rpm has some fixes too that may be usefull01:06
mvo(or may not)01:06
mdzmy standing opinion has been that we need a test suite before we can make that kind of change01:06
mdzotherwise by fixing one case, we break another01:06
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mvoagreed, at least we need some regression testing code01:07
mvomdz: how would you like to see #6761 fixed? as part of apt itself (like the current auto-clean)? or as part of the new apt periodic cron-job 01:08
dokomvo: pong01:09
ograYokoZar, ?01:09
mdzmvo: I think we should add an option to cron.daily/apt01:15
mdzmvo: I think the ideal solution would be a combination of the two ideas I presented01:16
mvomdz: all right, will look at it. thanks!01:16
mdzmvo: e.g., APT::Cache::Min-Age and APT::Cache::Size01:16
mdz(Cache::Archives perhaps)01:17
mdzmvo: meaning "Remove files older than Min-Age, until the cache is smaller than Size" or some such01:17
mdzmvo: it will be tricky to choose defaults which will be good for both stable releases and development systems, though01:18
mdzmvo: perhaps it would be better to keep it simple01:18
mdzI'm open to suggestions01:18
mvomdz: what do you think about making it either: age (e.g. 10 days) _or_ size (<300Mb)?01:19
mvomdz: I'll think about it a bit and add something to the bugreport01:20
mdzmvo: ok, but let's implement something soon, so that it can be tested for a good long while01:20
mvomdz: ok, I'll make it priority01:21
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YokoZarogra: arr?01:32
ograYokoZar: to late, i mailed you back01:32
ograYokoZar: you didnt answer my question in the mail, are winetools 100% compatible with the wine packages currently in universe (does the config work for them ?)01:36
YokoZarI thought I did, sorry01:37
YokoZarWinetools works in the user's home directory, mucking about with .wine - it works with the debian wine packages, but those only work if a user installs every component (since they're needlessly split)01:37
ograYokoZar: you said they only depend on wine, which was not what i asked ;)01:38
bluefoxicyhttp://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=41966 this issue is fixed in the new openoffice 2.0 beta01:38
bluefoxicybut exists on ubuntu01:38
ograYokoZar: thats why i was asking but the above sounds good :)01:38
mvoMitario: got some jabber errors :/01:39
crimsunbluefoxicy: in the openoffice.org2 packages, too?01:39
bluefoxicycrimsun: 1.9.74 is affected, 1.9.79 is not01:39
bluefoxicyUbuntu uses 1.9.7401:40
bluefoxicyhttp://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=44764 has an example file01:40
YokoZarWhen I have evolution open and click a mailto link in firefox it opened a new copy of evolution on me (rather than just a new mail message) - can someone else confirm this behavior?01:40
ogranope, worksforme01:41
Mitariomvo, oh :(01:44
mvoMitario: yeah, and I'm about to go to bed now01:44
mvopretty late :)01:44
Mitariomvo, indeed :) i'm going too01:44
Mitarionite everyone01:44
Mitariojust finished my little python library :p01:44
ogranight 01:45
danielsmdz: yeah, it's DDC01:45
=== koke 's going to sleep
kokean idea before sleep01:47
kokeit should be nice if the xscreensaver lock dialog showed a warning, like the gdm one, if you have caps lock enabled01:48
kokewhat do you think?01:48
=== mvo <- bed
mdzmvo: night01:49
mvonight mdz01:49
mdzkoke: yes, I agree that would be a good idea01:49
ogranight mvo01:49
kokemdz: ok, I've it noted in my tomboy ;) tomorrow I'll file a bug on that01:49
kokemy batteries are low :)01:50
mdzkoke: that isn't what I meant when I said it was a good idea :-)01:50
=== ogra sees more work coming along *sigh*
kokefiling a bug does not meant I'm not going to try fixing it myself :)01:51
mdzif I thought it would be a good idea to file bugs about every feature that I would like to see in Ubuntu, I would singlehandedly double the number of open bugs easily :-)01:51
kokewell, maybe change the "filing a bug" to "write to ubuntu-devel@"01:52
kokeor maybe if I have one of these bright days, to "send a patch to..."01:52
mdzI would like to find a way to better manage feature ideas01:53
mdzneither bugzilla nor mailing lists are very good for this01:53
kokewiki/IdeaPool ?01:53
kokemaybe too chaotic01:53
ograwiki, but idea pool ?01:53
tsengwell, jdub just made a post on this01:54
tsengto pgnome01:54
tsengyou need to have a well defined spec for feature requests01:54
jdub^ not jdub ;-)01:55
tsengyeah uh01:55
tsengi meant jimmac, maybe i did a tab complete or something01:55
tsengor a brain-o01:55
jdubmdz: i'm convinced a slightly different frontend and query would really help01:55
hsprangmdz: maybe the feature tracking thing is less a problem of tools but of the way you try to tackle it?01:56
mdzjdub: for the suspend/hibernate stuff?01:56
jdubmdz: feature requests01:56
mdzyes, I agree01:56
jdubwhich is pretty much what mark talks about wrt malone01:56
mdzhsprang: as jdub says, I think tools would help a great deal01:56
jdubdifferent interface, different workflow01:56
mdzright, feature requests have an entirely different workflow01:57
tsengyou could build a spec into the interface01:57
ograjdub: if it ever gets ready01:57
hsprangmdz: yes, but the tools can only help if you have a clear idea of the process01:57
mdzthey should be put into a tracking system in order to store the discussion and status, but bug tracking workflow is all wrong01:57
mdzI have some pretty good ideas about process01:57
jdubinterested people could farm the requests, talk to maintainers about them, and answers to the requests can be saved as documentation of the decision01:57
jdubhmm, so you'd have a slightly different search interface for features too01:58
=== jdub is tempted to storyboard it
hsprangmdz: so, you have the process clearly defined somewhere?01:58
mdzhsprang: I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's clearly defined, but I have a clear idea in my head01:59
mdzbased on experience01:59
=== jdub just wishes he could reply to bugzilla mails at this point ;)
hsprangmdz: so, you'll have to get it outta your head, document and communicate it, and others can help you find the tools02:00
mdzhsprang: that's the usual process, yes02:01
mdzhsprang: that's what we do at Ubuntu conferences02:01
mdzthe next one is at the end of April in Sydney02:01
jduband it's going to ROCK02:02
hsprangi doubt i will be able to afford such a vacation until then :(02:02
ogravacation ? 02:02
jdubmdz: hey, there was a good interview with you in the local paper02:03
mdzmore like a week of non-stop work02:03
danielsjdub: hahaha02:03
mdzjdub: a what now?02:03
danielsjdub: if that's what I think it is :)02:03
jdubdaniels: ;)02:03
danielsjdub: yeah.  'twas on the sidebar of theage also02:03
mdzoh, my alter-ego02:03
jdubmdz: did you see fabio's crazy messages the other day?02:04
mdzjdub: I vaguely remember something in all caps trying to wake me up early in the morning :-P02:04
jdubmdz: he was calling you his LITTLE BOLD FRIEND02:04
jdubhe meant BALD02:04
jdubbut we all agreed he was doubly right ;)02:04
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mdzmy hair is like 2cm long at the moment; it needs cutting02:05
mdzit is starting to stick up and curl02:05
jdub('twas an interesting interview though)02:05
mdz"It's one of the reasons why George Bush was re-elected," says Moby. "There are a majority of Americans who are scared provincial white Christians.02:05
=== ogra hands over one of his ponytail ribbons to mdz
hsprangnon-stop productive work for a week can be a vacation, too :)02:07
ograhsprang: its rather fun, but you need a week of vacation afterwards ;)02:07
mdz     2. Intermission of a stated employment, procedure, or office;02:08
mdz        a period of intermission; rest; leisure.02:08
zenwheneverything was working fine and I did another big upgrade. Now pages are loading slower than molasses. Am I the only person to run into this recently?02:11
zenwhenI have no idea what package could be causing it.02:11
jdubdaniels: 'Since then, though, Goodrem has had 18 months of controversy. She's gone from being the most popular of our recent Neighbours exports to someone described as "the most hated woman in Britain", courtesy of her relationship with a former boy-band singer.'02:11
jdubdaniels: ha ha 02:11
zulhmmm...building kernel fun..02:12
jdubyo zul02:12
jdubhow's inotify in the latest 2.6.11?02:12
zulhey jdub how is it giong?02:12
zulits inotify 0.2002:12
jdub"lazy" saturday morning ;)02:12
zulso its the same that we had in -2602:13
tsengzul: you have a .11?02:13
zulnope im trying to track down an abi breakage 02:14
zuljdub: nice background though for ubuntu desktop though ;)02:15
mdztseng: yes, in universe02:15
zulbut thats a pre release02:16
hsprangbye - need sleep02:18
danielsjdub: heh02:18
danielsmdz: so udu is an intermission?02:18
ograhsprang: nacht02:18
mdzdaniels: no?02:18
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danielsmdz: damn.02:19
danielswtf?  it's more expensive to fly from canberra -> sydney than either of melbourne -> canberra or sydney -> melbourne02:21
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schweebwas there a kernel upgrade earlier today?  were restricted-modules properly regenerated?  my nvidia module won't load... modprobe says "Invalid module format"02:32
zulschweeb: working on it02:33
schweebalrighty, long as someone knows02:34
zulyeah thanks 02:34
tsengzul: if you get acx in ill test for you02:39
tsengzul: i can also test new ipw220002:39
tsengprobably neither for hoary02:39
zulkernel team is just concentrating on 2.6.10 for now, but if you want to do some testing with 2.6.11.x go nuts02:40
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tsengi care more about those two drivers02:40
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zenwheneverything was working fine and I did another big upgrade. Now pages are loading slower than molasses. Am I the only person to run into this recently?03:01
tsengzenwhen: sounds like you/your isps problem really.03:03
crimsunif you rebooted between yesterday and today, possibly.03:03
zenwhentseng, it would sound like that until I boot to windows and dont have the issue with the same nameservers03:03
tsengcrimsun seems to have a clue03:04
zenwhenI was simply trying to see what was causing the issue, not place blame, but it is software.03:04
zenwhencrimsun, you have an idea?03:04
crimsunzenwhen: it is generally sluggish performance, or specifically network-related or graphics-related, etc.?03:05
zenwhenIt seems that the DNS resolves, then the page waits about ten seconds to continue loading.03:06
zenwhenif I try to load the same page again, it is quick.03:06
zenwhenI am really not looking for tech support.03:07
crimsunzenwhen: nic spew in dmesg?03:07
zenwhenI am wondering if something weird is happenning to other dialup users.03:07
zenwhennothing since the PPP modules loaded03:08
crimsundon't know offhand. Not using ppp* here, however.03:08
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mdzmako: around?03:43
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jon1012good night everybody :)04:20
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zulkernel is still compiling and im going to bed05:20
crimsunnight zul 05:21
zulnight crimsun 05:21
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BenoniAnybody successfully using OpenAFS on hoary?05:45
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svenlmdz: why your over-cautious remark on #7144 ? and do you think daniels will check it ? he is not usually available all the time, right ? 07:54
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mdzsvenl: daniels works australian hours usually, but he is looking for a new place to live right now and so is on an odd schedule08:00
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mdzsvenl: I am very cautious about changing the X autodetection logic because it is critical functionality and we put a lot of effort into broad testing08:00
svenlmdz: well, have you looked at the patches ? 08:01
svenlmdz: anyone literate in C will see that it has no effect unless the autodetection failed already.08:02
mdzsvenl: no, but they are non-trivial, and even trivial patches have introduced bugs for us in the past.  that code is hairy.08:02
svenlmdz: please define non-trivial ? Please have a look at them.08:02
mdzsvenl: there is no need to be aggressive about it.08:02
mdznone whatsoever08:02
svenlmdz: ok.08:02
mdzit will go in if daniels feels that it is safe, otherwise not08:02
svenlmdz: sorry, got burned by this whole Ethan/yaboot story.08:02
mdzwe are very close to release and we _will_ be cautious08:02
svenlmdz: but how can you affirm they are none-trivial if you didn't even look at them ?08:03
mdzwe are in feature freeze since one month, and this is a feature08:03
svenlmdz: the xresprobe patch for example, does : 08:03
svenl1) if we failed to find EDID in /proc/device-tree, try the same in /sys.08:03
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svenlsince if you fail to find EDID in /proc/device-tree, your auto-detection is broken anyway, it cannot cause problem.08:04
_d4vidhi all08:04
svenlmdz: current auto-detection is broken in the multi-head case anyway, for example if the first monitor support more modes than the second.08:05
mdzsvenl: right, we don't even attempt to support multi-head at this point08:05
svenlmdz: and daniels had had a pegasos for over 4 month now.08:05
svenlmdz: yep, which is what i noticed, so the patch does exactly the same thing with the radeonfb probed edid as it would have if the /proc/device-tree edid was found.08:06
svenlmdz: works on my pegasos and my ibook.08:06
svenlmdz: and i am sure you are putting 10 times more intrusive patches in at this time.08:07
mdzsvenl: it takes some time to adjust to time-based releases, but there is a groove to it08:07
mdzand a big part of it is saying "no" at the right times08:08
svenlmdz: ok, well.08:08
mdzI am not saying that this is necessarily one of those cases08:08
mdzbecause I haven't read the code08:08
svenlmdz: Ok.08:08
mdzbut be aware that we are in that position08:08
svenlmdz: yes, i am aware of it.08:08
svenlmdz: but it is a bit strange to me how people can claim a patch is non-trivial without even looking at it.08:09
mdzsvenl: it is a patch to add a feature.  we are in a release phase where we only fix bugs.08:09
svenlespecially if i know it is of the kind : if (failed to work properly) { do other stuff }.08:09
svenlmdz: that is dogmatic.08:10
svenlmdz: and exactly the kind of stuff Ethan told me about yaboot, which i find despissable.08:10
mdzsvenl: it is rigid and boring and it is the way that things have to be in order to get the job done08:10
mdzdaniels has a list of about a hundred bugs that he has to deal with08:11
mdzand they are all higher priority than reviewing your patch08:11
svenlmdz: yes, but if you *look* at the patch, dismissing something out of hand without even looking is seriously meprising for the contributors.08:11
svenlmdz: yep, but the difference, is that i did the work, that the patches are trivial, and that it would take it at most one minute to decide on them.08:11
mdzI don't see why it should make a difference to you whether your patch is merged next week or next month08:11
svenlmdz: and i arranged for a free pegasos box for him too, but i ended doing the job.08:11
svenlmdz: ah, no.08:12
mdzeven if it only takes a minute, I would rather that daniels spend that minute fixing bugs for the release08:12
svenlmdz: because i would like to have pegasos support in ubuntu, no ? 08:12
mdzand apply your patch after the release08:12
svenlmdz: yep.08:12
mdzbut if he has the time to do it, then I think it would be great to have better pegasos support08:12
mdzbut I understand there is more to pegasos support than this patch08:12
danielssvenl: err, when I was sent the Pegasos, I explained very clearly that I could not commit to doing anything for it at all08:12
danielssvenl: which you seemed to be OK with08:12
svenlmdz: you are aware that i was told pegasos support would come after the release shortly before the warthy release.08:13
mdzdaniels: morning08:13
mdzsvenl: you were not told that by me08:13
svenldaniels: ok, no problem.08:13
svenlmdz: nope.08:13
danielsright now, as Matt said, I'm in the middle of looking for a house (and need one ASAP), so I really don't have much time in between 'X doesn't work at all' bugs and looking for houses08:13
svenlmdz: but i did the job for the support.08:13
danielsbut yes, I think better Pegasos support is a worthwhile goal08:13
danielsmdz: g'morning08:13
mdzsvenl: I appreciate that, and your patch will not be dropped on the floor08:13
svenldaniels: could you at least look at the patches and give your advice ?08:13
danielsmdz: spent most of the morning/afternoon shopping; practically bought a kitchen08:13
danielssvenl: yeah, I'm just reading my email now08:13
svenldaniels: cool.08:14
svenldaniels, mdz: sorry, i maybe over reacted, but dismissing patches as non-trivial potentially release-breaking if this is not the case, well it is really discouraging to participate at all.08:14
svenlmdz: especially if you don't even look at the patches.08:14
danielsi understand it can be discouraging -- it's just right now that all our X autodetection stuff is on a hairline trigger08:15
mdzit is a big adjustment from Debian08:15
danielsbreathing on it can make it collapse08:15
mdzbut there is a logic to it08:15
svenldaniels, mdz and we lose more time arguing than it would take to review those patches.08:15
danielsand I have lots and lots of bugs assigned to me where autodetection completely fails to produce the right result08:15
danielssvenl: i'll review them once offlineimap finishes08:15
mdzsvenl: yes, but this argument will hopefully have long-term benefit08:15
svenldaniels: ok, that is all i ask.08:15
svenlmdz: you mean, in passing the message that it is not worthwhile to contribute to ubuntu because the patches don't even get reviewed ? 08:16
mdzsvenl: no, by helping you to understand our development methodology08:16
svenlmdz: don't get me wrong, i understand your position.08:17
mdzbut you're starting to get hostile about it, so I think we should continue this conversation another time08:17
svenlmdz: there you pass the message that i am ignorant of it, which is not the case.08:17
svenlmdz: well, i don't feel hostile, and really don't intent to do so.08:17
danielssvenl: hm, I'm not sure that this patch works properly for all cases08:18
svenlmdz: the patches are valid, i did all the job for it, it will take daniels maybe 5 minutes to integrate them, and it adds support for a new architecture.08:18
svenldaniels: which of them ? 08:18
danielssvenl: depends how the CRTCs are wired up08:18
danielssvenl: xresprobe08:18
svenldaniels: ah.08:18
danielssvenl: i don't know how radeonfb works, but if edid%d is edid data for the head on crtc %d, then it might not generally work08:19
svenldaniels: well sure, but it is no worse than the current case.08:19
svenldaniels: so it is a best case, and better handling will wait post-hoary.08:19
danielsthe pcigart thing *looks* alright, but I want to run it past Michel Dnzer08:20
svenlradeon does default to clone mode, so both edid1 and edid2 should be read, and the intersection of the modes chosen, but this may (or not) be more disruptive.08:20
svenldaniels: i think he authored it, and it has been in debian since ages, and probably in 4.3.0 upstream too.08:20
danielser, if it was in 4.3.0 upstream, then it would be in xorg upstream08:20
svenldaniels: but ask him, no problem, you are better suited for it.08:20
danielsgiven that was merged back into the 6.6 tree to make 6.708:20
svenldaniels: i don't know where it comes from, but it doesn't seem to be in a debian patch, not sure.08:21
danielsbut yeah, I'll ask Michel about it and see if it's still good, and check out radeonfb to see if edid%d is useful08:21
svenldaniels: edid%d will look for both edid1 and edid2 ? I would rather not do that.08:21
danielssvenl: i'm just saying in the general case -- if you have something connected to crtc 2 and nothing to crtc 1, then it will fail08:22
svenldaniels: it will take the bigger of the two modes, i tested it.08:22
danielswhat I'm most worried about is if we have an external display connected, and try DDC, and end up getting sync ranges and data from an externally connected monitor08:22
danielssvenl: no, what I'm saying is that edid1 may be empty and edid2 may have the real modes08:22
svenldaniels: not sure, i am not 100% sure that radeonfb doesn't report edid1 independent of where the monitor is connected. let me test it.08:22
danielsbut if you have a laptop with an external display connected, and you end up writing sync ranges for a huge 21" LCD or something08:23
svenldaniels: this makes for a more intrusive patch though.08:23
svenldaniels: notice that in this case, the current xresprobe is also broken.08:23
svenlsince we have no info on the head used, and if there are two monitors and thus two EDID's, all the modes will be used.08:24
svenllet me check with my ibook and an external monitor.08:24
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svenlmmm, can't find the external monitor thingy.08:26
svenldaniels: anyway, i think the current patch is the less intrusive one, and even if it doesn't work in all cases, it will work in the current case, and don't break existing cases.08:27
svenldaniels: i think anything more complexe should wait post-hoary.08:28
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abellidaniels: ping08:32
danielsabelli: sup08:33
abellidaniels: it's all right thank you :)08:33
danielserr ... ok08:33
abellidaniels: what's the main difference between nvidia-glx, and the linux-r-m ?08:34
danielsl-r-m provides the kernel module, nvidia-glx provides the xorg driver08:35
abelliso nvidia-glx has no modules in it?08:36
abelliok, is it safe now, to upgrade from warty to hoary (i mean under xorg's perspective)?08:36
danielsseems to work fine08:37
abelliok thank you08:38
schweebjust a sec abelli, you may not want to upgrade just this sec if you want nvidia... for me at least, the nvidia kernel module is broke... zul mentioned something about compiling a kernel before he went to sleep, but it could be a few hours till a functional nvidia module08:39
crimsunabelli: you'll want to use 'nv' instead of 'nvidia' for the time being08:39
crimsun(as schweeb mentioned)08:40
abellicrimsun: i actually use nv..08:40
abellicrimsun: that was for a friend.08:40
crimsunabelli: ok :-)08:40
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abellibecause, i don't know why, a dist-upgrade from hoary to warty produced bxl (to be read Big Xorg Lock)08:41
abellixfree didnt get uninstalled, and xorg didnt get installed :)08:41
abellibut 08:39 < daniels> seems to work fine08:41
HiddenWolfabellli: you can't 'upgrade' from hoary to warty, warty is the older version08:43
abelliin god we trust.08:43
abellimmmright... switch them :)08:43
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danielslooks abelli forgot about ubuntu-desktop08:54
HiddenWolfdaniels: bad for him08:58
mdzdoko: morning09:14
mdzfabbione: morning09:18
fabbionehi mdz09:18
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dokomorning all09:18
fabbionehi doko09:18
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danielsfabbione: oh, dude09:32
danielsfabbione: it's nothing to do with different agp modules, is it?09:32
danielsfabbione: like, if you use agpgart, it fails09:32
danielshas that sort of thing seen any update?09:32
danielsor drm09:32
fabbionei didn't upgrade agpart09:32
fabbionethe changelog is 99% on the build system09:32
fabbioneonly update is idiotify patch09:32
fabbioneand it's an API change. no ABI according to them09:33
mdzidiotify :-)09:33
fabbionei am really tired of this breakages09:34
danielsyeah, it sucks :\09:35
danielsdon't envy your position09:35
fabbionei swear god if i ever gonna get back X, i will never complain again!09:36
fabbioneX = EASY09:36
fabbionedaniels: perhaps we can switch for a while after hoary ;)09:37
fabbionejust to gimme a little break :P09:37
fabbionemdz: btw.. this is all your fault ;)09:37
fabbione<mdz> fabbione: mind to do the -> 2.6.9 transition?09:38
fabbione<fabbione> mdz: i imagine nobody is crazy enough to do that.. so yeah09:38
fabbionelook now!09:38
=== fabbione is totally into it!
=== fabbione goes to the mental hospital for a few hours
crimsunpoor fabbione. At least he's married. :-)09:39
danielsfabbione: you gave me x, suckah, i'm going to damn well keep it09:39
fabbioneno that's on top that... my wife will hunt you down.. all of you!09:39
fabbionedaniels: good boy ;)09:40
fabbionedaniels: but that's because you are my little kitty :P09:41
danielsso much so that I took HorizSync and VertRefresh out as the first thing I did :P09:42
danielsi'm thinking of putting them back in by default now, though09:42
=== fabbione remembers SUGGESTING daniels NOT to do so....
fabbionelet's look at the bright side of all this mess09:43
fabbionesparc is catching up on main :)09:43
danielsheh, cool09:43
danielsfabbione: ah yeah, but not always, you see09:43
danielsfabbione: don't write them out if we get sync ranges back from ddcprobe, or we're on a laptop chipset that we know isn't shit09:44
danielsfabbione: so it will still be out of the file in about 95% of cases09:44
fabbioneyeah i saw your code dude09:44
fabbionei keep an eye on my pets :P09:44
danielsi remember that we had a bet of sorts about this in kbenhavn09:44
danielsi guess this means you win, then :)09:45
danielsto some degree09:45
fabbionei can't lose :)09:45
fabbionehmmm eel2 is doomed09:45
fabbionewhere is seb?09:45
fabbione bin/sed: can't read /usr/lib/libhowl.la: No such file or directory09:45
fabbionewe must rebuild the archive asap to see if everything is ok09:46
fabbionei am off.. later fellas09:46
danielsseeya dude09:47
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svenldaniels: BTW, after thinking about it, for a laptop with an external monitor, in clone mode, the code i submitted will use the first head only, which will be the panel.10:06
danielssvenl: you're assuming the panel exports edid, which it generally doesn't10:06
danielsalso, the panel isn't always hooked up to the first crtc10:06
svenldaniels: ah ...10:06
danielsthe laptop i'm sitting on now has the panel off the secondary display path10:06
svenldaniels: i don't know, my ibook does have a EDID and edid1 in both places.10:06
svenldaniels: my code is enabled for powerpc only, and of.c is linked in on powerpc only though.10:07
danielssvenl: yes, but iirc powerbook panels don't export edid10:07
svenldaniels: ah.10:07
danielssvenl: (i think the difference was that the ones with nvidia chips export edid, radeons don't)10:07
danielsthe radeon lvds code is very clean10:07
danielsnvidia's is ... not10:07
svenldaniels: you have a powerbook ? which graphic card ?10:07
danielssvenl: i don't have one, no, but there have been a lot of bug reports since ... last june, i think it was10:09
svenldaniels: mmm, ...10:09
svenldaniels: in any case, it would be possible for those powerbooks to be fixed by the radeonfb/sys thingy, but we need to find out what they do have ? edid1 or edid2.10:11
svenlmaybe they simply don't have anything though, will need to ask benh about this case.10:11
danielserrr ... no10:11
danielssee, the way panels generally work is that you have a table in the bios with the panel's mode information10:11
danielsthe lvds tables10:11
svenldaniels: in any case, the current patch should have no influence on those.10:12
danielsthe panels will not respond to ddc queries10:12
danielsthis is the entire reason why we only run ddcprobe sometimes, and we run Xorg and grep the log other times10:12
svenldaniels: but radeonfb is better placed than the EDID code to do its own mode setup and such.10:12
danielsbecause we can't get DDC all the time, so we have to let Xorg read the tables out of the BIOS10:12
svenldaniels: maybe we could get the info out of dmesg even, not sure.10:12
danielserr, yeah, I'm not disputing that10:12
danielsall we really need is the panel size, in which case we fork Xorg and grep the log10:13
danielssee xprobe.sh and lcdsize.sh10:13
svenldaniels: anyway, the patch i submitted should have no influence on that, and for hoary+1 chances are good that fbdev/fbmon will provide infrastructure for querying this kind of info.10:13
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dholbachgood morning10:14
svenldaniels: i will ask benh (who did the powerpc radeonfb stuff lately), if he knows of a way to get said info from radeonfb in
danielssvenl: yeah, but that's irrelevant for i386/amd64 anyway10:14
danielsconfiguring framebuffers by default is a nightmare I'd rather avoid10:14
danielssvenl: right, but I think you'll find that the LVDS info is not exported via EDID10:15
svenldaniels: euh. yeah, ok, guess i don't really care about non-powerpc and all my patches should not apply on non-x86, since they are #ifdef __powerpc_ed.10:15
svenldaniels: yes, altough radeonfb could fake an edid1 with the lvds table or something, or provide the data in some other way.10:16
svenldaniels: i think benh mentioned something such.10:16
danielssvenl: ideally there'd be a driver-independent interface that xorg, fbdev and dri use that we can hook into10:16
danielssvenl: but that's like hoary+910:16
svenldaniels: not sure.10:16
danielssvenl: (well, that's the plan upstream, but it's going to take ages)10:16
danielswe like it, the kernel guys like it10:17
svenldaniels: it would be easy enough to simply use the fbdev facility, we place usefbdev option anyway.10:17
danielson powerpc, yes10:17
svenldaniels: i like it too.10:17
svenldaniels: ah ..10:17
svenldaniels: anyway, are we agreed that the current patch is ok for now, doesn't break existing supported cases, and we can have this discussion with more time post-hoary ? 10:18
danielssvenl: it *looks* ok to me -- i will check further, but on initial inspection it doesn't look too badly10:18
svenldaniels: if the panel doesn't export EDID, then radeonfb doesn't export edid1 too, i think.10:18
danielsok, but we fork Xorg for laptops anyway and grep the log10:20
svenldaniels: the real worry is if the powerpc laptop doesn't provide edid, that a monitor is connected externally, and that radeonfb provides an edid1 for the external monitor.10:20
danielsso that doesn't matter10:20
svenlah, ok.10:20
danielsright.  that's why we fork Xorg first10:20
svenlso no need for me to investigate this ? 10:20
jdubYokoZar: replied to your mail on u-d10:20
danielsno, just needs me to integrate it, thankyou10:20
jdubYokoZar: hope that helps :)10:20
danielsjdub: so, like, dbus 0.23.4 for hoary?10:20
svenlBTW, can you apply the pcigart fallback to some tree you have, and build the radeon module, and make it available in the bug report for testing ? 10:20
YokoZarjdub: thansk10:21
YokoZarThanks, even.10:21
jdubdaniels: was that ABI/API change dealt with upstream?10:21
danielsjdub: not really, no10:21
jdubdaniels: can we get that upstream, and do we have a good list of the fixage between releases?10:21
danielsjdub: but if it comes down to beagle vs !beagle for hoary, i can patch the affected apps (which are few)10:21
danielsjdub: i've kicked upstream in the testicles for that one10:21
daniels0.23.x fixage is just fixing a hojillion memory leaks (one that made your app use a few hundred mb in half an hour) and a couple of lockups, mainly in interactions with mono10:22
danielsbut yeah, upstream are unrepentant and won't commit to a stable api :\10:22
jdubdaniels: you seen that hal-d-m doesn't run?10:22
svenlok, need to go, see you later.10:22
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danielsjdub: it can be patched away10:27
danielsjdub: my argument was that if you're going to change dbus_pending_call_get_reply to dbus_pending_get_steal_reply and change the semantics, just keep the old function around and mark it deprecated10:27
danielsthen remove it all in one great hit10:27
danielsand i mentioned soversions10:27
danielsthis had the unfortunate effect of possibly placing us in a gal-esque situation10:28
YokoZarjdub: reply sent10:28
jdubdaniels: yeah10:29
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fabbionehey jdub 10:41
fabbionejdub: isn't about time you add some README or documentation to flumotion?10:41
fabbionebtw.. it hangs on me10:42
dholbachelmo: could you please, when you're back sync  mondo  and  mindi  from sid?10:43
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fabbionedaniels: did you ever installed your sparc?10:51
danielsfabbione: not yet, I'm afraid10:52
fabbionedaniels: i still have problems using xvfb-run on sparc10:52
fabbioneit doesn't work as normal user in certain cases10:52
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fabbionenothing extremely important for hoary10:52
danielshmmmm, bloody hell10:52
fabbioneit's one package in main that needs manual love10:52
danielsdoesn't that fail pyopengl's build?10:53
fabbionethis is frigging annoying.. my new webcam adds a new audio device10:54
fabbioneand it renumbered all the other cards10:54
fabbioneand xine refuses to see the correct one10:54
fabbioneoh btw10:54
fabbionethat xinemara problem seems isolated to mplayer10:55
fabbioneall the other players look ok10:55
fabbionei will try later to see if it is only a missing build-dep somewhere10:55
danielsyeah, it's probably a b-d thing10:56
danielsanyway, I need to get some more sleep in10:56
danielson the couch, since my bed makes my back ache, heh10:56
Seveasdaniels, try a waterbed 10:57
danielsSeveas: i'm getting a new bed soon10:57
Kamionsvenl: OF upgrade seemed to work (although unfortunately I wasn't looking at the screen when the flash program finished, so I'm not 100% certain; looked back and it was back at the OF prompt with variables reset), so I'm re-burning a CD image with modified yaboot10:58
fabbionehey Kamion 10:58
fabbioneKamion: did you manage to build a new DVD image?10:58
fabbione(after preview i mean)10:59
fabbionei got my DVD burner back yesterday and i can test during the weekend10:59
Kamionfabbione: one should build today11:00
Kamiondidn't seem any particular hurry to preempt it :)11:00
Kamionyou do want today's build, since it has hopefully-fixed archive-copier11:00
fabbioneyes.. i recall that :)11:01
Kamionfabbione: expect it to be available around 13:15 UTC or a little afterwards11:02
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fabbioneKamion: no rush. i need to unfuck the kernel first anyway11:04
jdubfabbione: new packages on their way to universe soon are nicely split out and stuff11:04
fabbionejdub: good.. but please add documentation too11:05
jdubfabbione: thus far, the flumotion docs have not had a tarball release; i might have to package them anyway11:05
fabbioneusr/share/doc empty is the SUCKS11:05
mdzKamion: LANG=foo should be sufficient for #7138, right?11:05
fabbionejdub: the README file as a starter is perfect11:05
mdzno need to mess with any other locale settings?11:05
fabbionejdub: the main issue for me is that it hangs when reading from my webcam11:06
fabbionexawtv can read from it without any problem11:06
fabbioneflumotion can't11:06
Kamionmdz: yes. what I was thinking was that it'd be best if casper got debian-installer/locale just before pivoting, and export LANG="whatever it got" immediately after pivoting; then you'd only have to do it in one place11:08
mdzthat's what I've just done11:08
Kamionideal then11:08
mdzKamion: any other environment variables which deserve the same treatment, while I'm there?11:12
danielsmdz: for 7138, all I need is LANG11:14
KamionLANG's the only one I can think of11:14
Kamionnote to self: when burning CDs, it helps if you put the CD into the correct drive11:14
Kamionwhat happened to the live CDs? they're taking ages to rsync today11:15
fabbioneKamion: winfoss?11:15
Kamionnot for powerpc11:16
HiddenWolfugh, I just realised hoary shuts down so fast that it clips off the shutdown sound before it's done playing. :S11:16
sabdflmorning guys11:16
Kamionjdub: "brill"? what decade do you live in? :-)11:16
fabbionehey sabdfl 11:16
dholbachhi mark11:16
sabdflinstaller tests... lots of problems today?11:16
jdubKamion: ha ha11:16
Kamionsabdfl: hmm?11:17
danielsKamion: as opposed to 'rad'11:17
KamionI said "brill" when I was five11:17
danielsKamion: jdub is still five11:17
Kamiongood point11:17
sabdflwe're trying to install hoary on a laptop for my new PA.11:17
sabdfllast night, jane was getting a debootstrap error, "can't find ..."11:17
jdubi have moments of youthful exhuberance :-)11:18
sabdfltoday i just burned a new install daily11:18
sabdfland it's not seeing my network cards11:18
sabdflon an IBM T4211:18
sabdfljdub: gnarly11:18
Kamionsabdfl: that debootstrap error is typically a symptom of a bad burn11:18
mdzas Kamion said11:18
sabdfland... this mornings network error?11:18
Kamionsabdfl: the kernel module ABI got screwed yesterday11:18
fabbionesabdfl: working on it already11:18
mdznot seeing your network card is probably the kernel ABI skew11:18
sabdfloh, that's alreight then :-)11:19
Kamionthe kernel/initrd and the udebs are almost certainly out of step11:19
fabbionemdz: i think the simples way is to make 27 = 25.211:19
fabbionemdz: and 28 with the new ABI11:19
Kamionfabbione: please include the #1440 fix in 2711:19
mdzfabbione: fine with me11:20
Kamionhaving it alternately progress and regress is confusing bug reporters11:20
fabbioneKamion: yes. that was the idea11:20
Kamion25.2 did not have the #1440 fix11:20
Kamionbut if you mean to roll back the inotify patch in 27, sure :)11:20
sabdflfabbione: i need to get this laptop sorted for jane & claire today, will there be a new installer today to test with?11:20
Kamionsabdfl: just use yesterday's image11:21
sabdflKamion: 'k11:21
fabbionesabdfl: it will take not less than 3 hours for the changes to propagate11:21
fabbionesabdfl: nothing i can do faster11:21
Kamionthe kernel build will take a while, then it would take an installer byhand from elmo, and then new CDs will have to be rolled; all this while I'm in London ;)11:21
jdubGet:64 http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/universe libxslt1-python2.4 1.1.12-3ubuntu3 [686B] 11:21
Kamion(leaving in ~1hr)11:21
fabbionesabdfl:     - CONFIG_CRC32=y on all arches.11:22
jduboh, libxslt1, not libxslt1.111:23
mdzfabbione: why?11:23
fabbionei wonder if this could have caused the ABI change11:23
sabdflfabbione: np11:23
fabbionemdz: config allignment11:23
fabbionemdz: it was giving some problems at udeb levels since it is a shared module between fb and net11:23
Kamionthe hack-solution Debian applied for that was to put crc32.ko in the kernel-image udeb11:24
mdzfabbione: for hoary+1 I would like to explore building fewer kernels on i38611:24
sabdflKamion: btw we are updating the ubuntu logo slightly (text blue -> black), i'll file a reminder bug for you to get a new isosplash from jdub / cliff11:24
Kamionsince both fb-modules and nic-*-modules depend on kernel-image11:24
Kamionsabdfl: ok, no problem11:24
Kamionbut certainly building it in seems a sensible option11:25
fabbionemdz: fewer? they are only 5...11:25
mdzfabbione: "only"11:25
fabbioneamd64 builds 4, sparc 2, hppa 4, powerpc unlimited....11:25
mdzhppa and sparc are irrelevant, powerpc are actually different subarches11:26
fabbioneso it's in the average11:26
fabbionemdz: yes.. but they still get builded11:26
fabbioneia64 411:26
fabbioneso i mean.. it's there with the others11:26
mdzfabbione: hppa and sparc don't delay releases11:26
fabbioneneither does ia6411:26
mdzpowerpc and i386 do11:26
Kamionsvenl: hm, the /etc/yaboot.conf -> ../install/yaboot.conf symlink doesn't seem to work11:27
fabbioneok.. than i would say we roll back to 25.111:27
fabbioneand we apply the debian fix to the crc32 thingy11:27
danielsthe other workaround would be to buy concordia, only with 12GB of RAM, run it in 32-bit mode, and build on a ramdisk11:27
Kamionsvenl: "Config file error: Token is too long near line 0 in file /etc/yaboot.conf"11:27
fabbionethat should do11:27
danielsor tmpfs or whatever's fashionable these days11:28
Kamionfabbione: why not just change ABI now?11:28
Kamionif we're going to do it anyway ...11:28
mdzdaniels: the kernel builds use CONCURRENCY_LEVEL now; that should cut the build time in half11:28
Kamionmdz: according to elmo, it makes it worse11:28
danielsfabbione: i'll deal with lrm for the new abi if you give me a reminder when you upload it11:28
mdzKamion: because it'd be nice to un-screw the users we just screwed by breaking it11:28
mdzKamion: ??11:28
mdzI've used CONCURRENCY_LEVEL many times in the past with positive results11:29
fabbioneit's not worste11:29
fabbioneplease do not confuse stuff11:29
fabbionethe last kernel invalidated the ccache11:29
Kamion13:21 < elmo> fabbione: I don't think that was such a good plan11:29
Kamion13:22 < elmo> Build needed 01:05:48, 1425648k disk space11:29
Kamion13:22 < elmo> Build needed 00:38:47, 1428100k disk space11:29
Kamion13:22 < elmo> first is -26, second is -25.2 .  on amd64, same buildd host11:29
fabbionethat's why it took longer11:29
Kamionoh, ok11:29
Mithrandirlamont: (6438); not yet, I got distracted by a shiny new WRT54GS last night, so I didn't finish OOo/ia6411:30
fabbioneyou should compare with a version that did invalidate the cache too11:30
mdzwhy would it invalidate ccache?11:30
Kamionnew config?11:30
mdzccache doesn't seem to be implemented correctly yet anyway11:30
sabdflKamion, jdub: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=751411:30
fabbionemdz: because of the new inotify patch11:30
fabbionethey claim that the ABI was intact11:30
mdzfabbione: why would that invalidate ccache?11:30
fabbionebut apparently it wasn't11:30
fabbionebecause it changes one include file in fs/11:30
danielsmdz: touch a core header, watch your cache die11:30
fabbionethat means basically rebuilding 3/4 of the kernel11:30
crimsunfabbione: confirmed that reverting inotify 0.20 -> 0.18 (16 and 15-optional + enable-inotify) allows l-r-m to work.11:31
crimsunfabbione: just spent the past hour building and testing.11:31
fabbionecrimsun: ah good11:31
fabbionedilinger: you around?11:31
fabbioneafaik changing one module from M to Y should NOT break the ABI11:32
fabbioneand we saw it with the DRM stuff a while back11:32
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fabbioneso if that's the problem we can just revert the idiotify patch11:32
crimsunfabbione: I left CONFIG_CRC32=y11:33
danielsthe drm stuff wasn't changing from M->Y11:33
crimsunso that change is orthogonal11:33
mdzfabbione: bobmitch claims on ubuntu-devel that firmware for acx100 is missing?11:33
crimsunit's purely the inotify 0.20 stuff11:33
danielsit was that DRM got reorganised so that all the drivers used core functions, which were built into the kernel11:33
danielsand fglrx and drm-core just hated each other11:33
mdzfabbione: adding or removing any symbols changes the ABI, AIUI11:33
danielsmdz: they're in lrm11:33
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mdzpotpal:[~]  dpkg -L linux-restricted-modules-`uname -r` | grep acx11:34
mdzzsh: done       dpkg -L linux-restricted-modules-`uname -r` |11:34
mdzzsh: exit 1     grep acx11:34
mdzdaniels: ^^11:34
danielsthey're not called acx11:34
fabbionemdz: that is weird.. we didn't touch the acx stuff for a long while11:34
danielsdaniels@catsby:~/canonical/kernel/l-r-m/ ls11:34
fabbionedaniels: you have an acx.. can you check?11:35
mdkei have acx11:35
mdkecan i help?11:35
danielsfabbione: it's not in my amd64 right now, but I don't see how it would be broken11:35
mdzdaniels: please follow up on ubuntu-devel;11:35
danielsi can check on the other side of sleep though11:35
danielsmdz: wlil do11:35
danielsalright, off now, later11:35
Kamionsurely the module is just broken for the same reason every other module is broken at the moment11:35
mdzdaniels: he says it was a fresh array 6 install11:35
Kamioni.e. the ABI change11:35
mdzKamion: the base-installer kernel issue was fixed before or after array 6?11:35
KamionI think after, checking11:36
mdzdaniels: if it was fixed after array 6, the answer is probably "use preview"11:36
Kamionor "install linux-386"11:36
crimsunreally, it's solely inotify 0.20's fault.11:36
Kamion -- Colin Watson <cjwatson@ubuntu.com>  Mon,  7 Mar 2005 13:11:31 +000011:36
KamionArray CD 6 was 3 March11:36
fabbioneok.. inotify is reverted.. anything else?11:39
fabbionemdz: the acx stuff is known to work.. otherwise daniels won't be here irciing...11:40
Kamionat some point I must send you a BusLogic hotpluggification patch, but not now11:40
fabbioneKamion: just send it.. i will queue it up for -2811:40
KamionI don't have it yet, hence "not now" ;)11:40
fabbionemdz: ?11:41
mdzfabbione: ?11:41
fabbioneanything else for 27?11:41
mdzfix all known boot failures? ;-)11:41
fabbionemdke: does the acx100 driver work for you?11:41
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mdzall the other major kernel bugs too if you have time11:42
mdkefabbione, i copied my firmware over from cd11:42
=== fabbione summons Linus and adds AI to the kernel
mdkefabbione, although it goes down fairly frequently11:42
mdkebut it works11:42
smurfixAnybody know where mako has misplaced himself? We were supposed to have a meeting at 10:00 UTC11:42
mdzsmurfix: it's before 0600 in mako-land, so I imagine he's misplaced himself in bed11:42
fabbionemdz: i would like to unbreak the ABI in 27 and work immediatly on 2811:42
mdzfabbione: sounds good11:42
fabbionemdz: i have a few tons of security updates to push in11:43
fabbionethat as usual MIGHT break the ABI11:43
fabbioneso 28 is a perfect kernel11:43
smurfixmdz: he shouldn't have agreed to that time then :-/11:43
mdzsmurfix: perhaps he overslept11:44
smurfixmdz: He's been offline for the last 10.5 hours, that should be enough sleep :-p11:45
mdzsmurfix: I slept for 11 hours last night11:45
fabbionei think he also has a life :)11:46
sabdflmdz: welcome back to the world of the living :-)11:46
smurfixfabbione: if he agrees to a meeting time he's not supposed to have one in the meantime ;-)11:46
mdzbringing me to an average of about 5 hours/night for the past 3 ;-)11:46
sabdflkamion: if it's tricky, don't stress for hoary, but if possible please https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=751511:46
sabdflmdz: don't push it, ok11:46
smurfixmdz: Ouch.11:46
fabbionesabdfl: on topic of installer questions...11:47
mdzsabdfl: without major surgery, those questions must be asked after the base system is installed11:47
fabbionechoose-mirror and apt preseeding11:47
fabbione(at least on netinstall)11:48
sabdflfabbione: so with the new bustificated kernel, will network also fail on a normal boot if i update to todays versions?11:48
sabdflfabbione: you want those asked, or not asked?11:48
=== metallikop is now known as kop|gone
fabbioneit would be very nice to let choose-mirror to ask the question and preseed apt..11:48
mdzsabdfl: taking it easy is occasionally incompatible with meeting release targets, unfortunately11:48
fabbioneinstead of lettign choose-mirror download from archive11:48
fabbioneand ask later11:48
sabdflmdz: you're preaching to the choir :-)11:48
mdzI'm easy like sunday morning11:49
fabbionesabdfl: it might fail. problem is that i can't reproduce the problem here.. not even with nvidia11:49
mdzsabdfl: if your network device requires a driver from linux-restricted-modules, it's entirely likely that it will fail11:50
smurfixDuh? I just updated and locales.postinst is rebuilding every locale *twice*11:50
mdzsmurfix: Kamion touched it last! ;-)11:50
Kamionsabdfl: it's hard; the implementation of those questions fundamentally relies on having the base system installed11:50
mdzjdub: thanks for the followup on the wine issue11:52
jdubmdz: turned out well11:52
Kamionsabdfl: mm, I agree that choose-mirror really should ask its mirror question; it's not on the default CD install path11:52
Kamionah, mdz already said what I said about the base system installation :)11:53
fabbionealso because it's lame to download from archive.u.c and than ask what mirror to use11:53
Kamionnowadays we do at least default to CC.archive.ubuntu.com there, but still11:53
fabbionei spend heaps of time downloading from archive each time i need to do a test install11:54
mdzhow many CC.ubuntu.com point to non-canonical mirrors?11:54
fabbionei can imagine admins with local mirrors11:54
sabdflmdz: i doubt a T42 needs restricted modules... does it?11:57
mdzsabdfl: the T42 is available with 3 different wireless cards11:57
mdzone of them is atheros-based, which requires l-r-m11:57
mdzone is centrino/intel, which doesn't11:57
mdzI forget what the other is11:57
fabbione27 is on the way to incoming11:58
sabdflinstalled an older image11:58
sabdflmdz: uses ipw2200 and e100011:58
mdzsabdfl: just like my T42, then11:58
mdzsabdfl: in which case I guarantee that preview works out of the box ;-)11:58
sabdflfabbione: are we rolling with the latest ipw* drivers?11:59
fabbionesabdfl: almost...11:59
mdzsabdfl: not latest, no.  we stopped blindly pulling code from upstream some time ago11:59
mdzwe ship with the December 20th version of ipw220011:59
Kamionsabdfl: so, any other Ubuntu logo changes, or just the colour? if it's just the colour I can probably gimp it up myself11:59
mdzwe made a pass over all the third-party drivers before upstreamversionfreeze and updated them12:00
fabbionethe only exception was inotify in the attempt to get it working12:00
fabbionebut it has been giving more problems than anything else12:00
jdubKamion: it'll be a full image change12:01
fabbionethere.. kernel is ACCEPTED and before cron.daily12:01
jdubKamion: to match or complement the splash screen12:01
=== fabbione does some baz dance
mdzfabbione: we need to invent the hoary dance for UDU12:02
Kamionjdub: oh, that's not what I gathered from #751412:02
fabbionemdz: agreed...12:02
jdubKamion: the logo change will be part of it12:03
fabbionemdz: YMCA? ;)12:03
jdubKamion: but it will be a more general change12:03
KamionI need this a week before release12:03
Kamionpreferably a bit earlier, so that the release candidate has a better chance of being final12:03
fabbioneKamion, mdz: 28 will be up not before the 1612:04
fabbioneand it will change the ABI12:04
fabbioneare we ok for this?12:05
fabbioneor do you want me to delay?12:05
mdzfabbione: it is guaranteed to change the ABI?12:05
fabbionemdz: it did in 26... so yes12:05
mdzRC is the 30th12:05
fabbionemdz: i can't disclose before the 1612:05
mdzfabbione: I do not understand why we should cause these headaches for the sake of inotify12:06
fabbioneyou know the drill12:06
mdzwhich is disabled per default12:06
fabbionemdz: because the last one works way better than the previous one12:06
mdzwouldn't it be better to suspend inotify updates until hoary+112:06
fabbionemdz: ok for me12:06
mdzit may work better, but we have already decided not to use it for Hoary12:06
=== fabbione is extremely flexible today
mdzfabbione: perhaps even...bendy?12:07
fabbionebendy +++12:07
fabbionei relly can't wait for UDU :)12:09
fabbioneour meetings are so much fun12:09
smurfixAnybody going to linux.conf.au before UDU?12:10
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dholbachhi mvo12:10
fabbionenot me...12:10
mdzsmurfix: yes, several of us12:10
mvohey dholbach 12:10
mvohi all12:10
=== smurfix plans o
smurfixto, even12:10
fabbionesabdfl: at linux conf.au you need to get me a Linus signature with something on the line as: "To Fabbione.. that poor kernel maintainer" ;)12:11
thommdz: firefox?12:12
fabbionehey thom12:12
mdzthom: foxfire?12:12
mdzfabbione: I thought Linus was not attending this time12:13
fabbioneno idea....12:13
fabbionesmurfix: is keymapper your toy?12:13
thommdz: SU 47d12:13
thommdz: but let's not talk about russian fighter jets ;-)12:13
dholbachcan somebody make me feel less uneasy about  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps ? i know there are some things based on non-free or amd64 issues, but still...12:14
smurfixfabbione: Yeah12:15
thommdz: i'm sure MiG have copyrights on the name ;-)12:15
Kamiondholbach: compare it with http://ftp-master.debian.org/testing/unstable_probs.html and contemplate what an easy time you have by comparison12:15
fabbionesmurfix: keymapper builds fine but console-data will fail on sparc with this message: make: *** No rule to make target `decision-tree-sparc', needed by `decision-tree'.  Stop.12:16
fabbionesmurfix: can you point me to what i should look at?12:16
Kamion(ok, so a lot of that is fucked architectures like sh, but still)12:16
smurfixfabbione: Check out consoledata's debian/rules12:17
dholbachKamion: haha... thank you, i'll contemplate all day along12:17
mdzAttempts to install the smp kernel subsequently failed. Likely cause: Bad deb package12:17
mdza keenly intuitive diagnosis12:17
thommdz: but yeah, you pinged last night about the 1.0.1 upload?12:17
fabbionesmurfix: ok12:17
smurfixfabbione: There's a gen_keymap there which needs to be fed a list of keyboards likely to be connected to a Sparc box12:18
fabbionesmurfix: ok...12:18
dholbachis everyone ok with a wiki page   MorgueCandidates  ?12:19
Kamionsvenl: so, turning on yaboot debug suggests that booting yaboot on the Pegasos with the OF update is then trying to of_open "/pci@80000000/ide@C,1/cdrom@1,0:\etc\yaboot.conf"12:20
=== fabbione -> food
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mdzthom: yes12:27
Kamionsvenl: but doing "boot /pci@80000000/ide@C,1/cdrom@1,0:\install\yaboot" at least starts up yaboot fine (although I get the same config file error)12:27
mdzdholbach: what would be the content of this page?12:27
Kamionsvenl: so I think the path is correct12:27
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dholbachmdz: packages we don't want to support any more, which don't make no sense and should be blocked from auto-syncs from debian12:28
Kamionsvenl: yaboot apparently passes part=NULL to of_open here, so I'm not sure why the is_not_iso thing is needed?12:29
YokoZarWhen I take a desktop screenshot, and save it to desktop (as default), it didn't show up until I opened the desktop folder in nautilus and hit refresh12:29
mdzdholbach: candidates for removal, then?12:29
dholbachmdz: the page would be a place to discuss those packages12:29
YokoZarIs this something weird I did?  Or is it something weird gnome is doing?12:29
dholbachmdz: i'm going throught the list, but vdk would be such a case (we have vdk2 and it isnt installable anymore), kudzu (in my eyes, because users complained about broken configuration after the use of it)12:30
thommdz: i'm gonna nail down a bunch more bugs before i upload; prolly the middle of the week or so now i have popcon more or less fixed up12:30
dholbachmdz: that's all i have in mind atm12:30
dholbachmdz: i think it's good to have a discussion place for those and an institution for that, since universe is... well packed with weird stuff :-)12:31
mdzdholbach: sounds reasonable12:37
dholbachmdz: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MorgueCandidates12:38
dholbachmdz: perhaps it could be an item on each of the TB's meetings (correct me, if this is the wrong place for it), so elmo could act after the decisions made then12:40
dholbachgenerally users should have the choice, but _a bit_ of a best-of-breed--approach would be a nice thing to focus on12:42
HiddenWolfFailed to run /usr/sbin/synaptic as user root:12:45
HiddenWolf Child terminated with 249 status -> :S12:45
fabbioneBuild needed 00:22:01, 1425712k disk space12:46
fabbionethis is on amd64 with ccache :-)12:46
fabbione(kernel build time btw)12:46
fabbionealmost 50% less than before12:47
Mithrandirfabbione: nicey12:47
fabbionetold ya12:47
mvoHiddenWolf: it looks like a message from gksudo that we really should patch out. 12:47
HiddenWolfmvo: just filed a bug about it for synaptic, feel free to solve it ;)12:48
mvoHiddenWolf: one more for my ever growing list ...12:49
mvoHiddenWolf: thanks :)12:49
mdznight all12:49
=== Amaranth heads for bed
thomnight mdz12:49
mvonight mdz 12:49
fabbionenight mdz12:49
dholbachbye mdz12:49
=== thom goes out
thomKamion: cya later12:49
HiddenWolfmvo: Relax. ;)12:51
svenlKamion: yeah, i know, this is the same thing i discovered.12:52
svenlKamion: the problem is that the boot command does a "load" while yaboot does only a "read".12:52
svenlKamion: and currently the "read" command bypass the filesystem/partition table detection code, and does a plain read.12:52
svenlKamion: need to fix that, but time was short.12:53
Kamionsvenl: ok01:01
Mithrandirsabdfl: btw, I'm hoping to have a look at the ooo2 feasability this weekend.  There were some conflicting build-deps, but seb sorted that out.01:02
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fabbione46 minutes for i386 to build01:06
fabbionethat is good considering it munges arch: all01:06
fabbionestill much better than 1 hour and 30 on my -j15 distcc cluster with only arch: any01:06
Mithrandirelmo: could you please un-pas tvtime?  I have no idea why it's marked as "i386 (wine) specific"01:08
Mithrandirelmo: it does at least build on amd6401:08
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trukulohi ppl01:27
Riddellhow do I change the widget style used by gnome?01:27
trukuloRiddell, you are asking how to change the widget on ubuntu-devel? ask it on #ubuntu please01:28
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Riddellthis is for development purposes01:28
trukuloso : System - Preferences - Theme01:29
trukuloor you asking files ?01:29
smurfixfabbione: Has anything changed WRT ipw2200 and/or power handling? I can power the thing down but I can't get it back up :-/01:38
fabbionenope.. please test again with -2701:40
fabbione-26 is borked 01:40
jdubRiddell: changing a gconf key; for you guys, i'd recommend dropping in a defaults file01:46
jdubRiddell: will explain later, have to put pipka to bed01:46
smurfixfabbione: Just booted -19, doesn't work there either :-/01:47
smurfixfabbione: I'll attack -27 with a debugging mallet if it doesn't behave ...01:49
fabbionesmurfix: mjg59 is the person to ask.01:51
fabbionei really can't do anything about it01:51
fabbionei don't have the hw nor the knowledge to fix it01:51
smurfixfabbione: I'll bug him if it doesn't work01:51
smurfixfabbione: thanks01:51
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trukulomorning ogra01:54
trukulooliver, have you seen news? nero on linux (propietary)01:54
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zulhey jbailey 01:55
jbaileyDanny!  Chuck!01:56
fabbionehey jeff01:57
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sabdflMithrandir: thanks muchly!02:03
=== Kinnison has reason to use the new hoary update tool
KinnisonIt's very very cool02:05
=== mvo is happy
=== Kinnison loves the changelog doobry
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AndyFitztrash icon concepts,   left or right style .  which one is preferred ?   http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/trash.png  02:15
ograhehe, right02:16
AndyFitzogra, zul,  any particular reasons ?02:16
zulit looks better for me02:16
ograAndyFitz: i just see the left variant in my panel......the outline looks to slim for me for such a small icon (as well as on the evolution,help and ff)02:20
AndyFitzgood point ...  hrm.  I personally like the style of the left one better  but the right one does have the practicality going for it ..02:22
jbaileyAndyFitz: I think I prefer the right because it has some colour to it.02:22
AndyFitznow that I think about it .. the right one looks like those pipes in maro.. at any moment a giant flower with teeth could come out of your empty wastebasket02:22
jbaileyIn the tiny iteration of the full one, I find it hard to tell the different between full and empty.02:23
jbailey(of the left one)02:23
AndyFitzthey havent been cleaned up yet.   and I don't think they will be able to be ( by hoary's release )02:25
AndyFitzwill finish the other stuff and come back to it later  maybe  on the mailing list02:25
torkelthe right ones, they looks somewhat of what we have in sweden :-)02:27
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kentI would prefer the right one, since the left trashcan does not look half as good as the right one.03:02
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dholbachfabbione: ping03:06
jdubKamion: around?03:14
Alessiosorry, do you have any news about mako? we should have a meeting this morning..03:16
jdubhmm, haven't seen mako around myself03:16
Alessiodo you have know any way for contact him quckly?03:18
dholbachanyone of the TB crew in here? what's the status of kernel-*-2.4* in universe? and the reasoning behind it? :-)03:19
ograsmurfix was also waiting for him since 10:00 UTC 03:19
Alessioogra, me too03:21
Alessiohe have agreed for that time03:21
Alessiook, thanks03:22
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ograjdub, is there a chance to use the nice keyboard bell from ppaudio in esd ? 03:37
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jdubogra: nup03:43
ograhmm, :-/03:43
ograwas one of my favorite features....03:43
torkelogra: you must be kidding? That was the first thing I turned off03:45
ograi loved it03:45
srbakerwhoa.  straw is *really* buggy.03:48
srbakerwhat's the "official" gnome-sanctioned RSS aggregator these days?03:48
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Nafallosrbaker: liferea are used by many, myself I use thunderbird :-).03:49
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srbakerNafallo, yeah, i was using thunderbird.  just looking at lifrerea now03:49
NafalloI tried liferea until I saw that Thunderbird would be happy to do the trick for me :-).03:51
jdubsrbaker: blam! is pretty good03:55
srbakerjdub, i foudn it a little unstable03:55
Mithrandirthe problem with using t-b is it's a bit slow, IME.03:56
SimiraKamion: ping03:56
srbakerMithrandir, right, that's why i'm switching back to balsa.  and finding something new for reading rss03:57
MithrandirI'm using liferea which works well except for one bug, which is it resets the position in the story window when refreshing the feeds.03:59
Mithrandirwhich can be annoying, but isn't a big thing04:02
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jon1012hi everybody :)04:05
fabbionedaniels: mplayer was at fault...04:12
fabbionedaniels: uploaded the new version right now04:12
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_d4vidUbuntu 5.04-preview is released (GNOME 2.10 included)! Downloads are available at http://releases.ubuntu.com/hoary/. Test it NOW!04:21
Nafallo_d4vid: this channel didn't already knew that I suppose? ;-)04:23
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Burgundaviano, the entire dev team has their head in the sand04:27
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jdubhey ghe04:34
jdubgot your mail04:34
jdubwant to reply in detail, but relaxing a bit on the w/e, will reply on monday :-)04:34
_d4vidplay Silbermond - Symphonie.mp304:34
GheRiverojdub, should i wait good news?04:35
jdubGheRivero: i'm really keen for it, is the short summary ;)04:35
jdubGheRivero: you coming to UbuntuDownUnder?04:35
GheRiverono, i'm really far04:36
jdubi went to mataro ;)04:36
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GheRiverome too, but australia is just in the other side, and my work is not really well paid04:37
jdubhave you thought about requesting sponsorship?04:38
jdubor not enough time to come, either?04:38
GheRiveroi tough about sponsorship, but i'm afraid i didn't feel comfortable using canonical money. I'm sure there is alot of more people that didn't go to mataro that would like to go to sidney04:39
zulthe next conference should be in north america imho04:39
Treenakszul: canada then04:39
zuleven better04:39
jdubzul: fairly likely it will be south america.04:40
fabbionei think the next will be in south africa04:40
fabbionesouth america ++++++!04:40
=== ogra votes for mexico
zulno no...north america...canada...ottawa *cough* *cough*04:40
=== fabbione hunts down zul
jdubogra: that's not south america ;)04:40
Treenaksjdub: almost :)04:41
ograjdub: but near ;)04:41
fabbionelet's go to CUBA!04:41
dokofabbione: one time galapagos is enough ... 04:41
jdubargentina, brazil, venezuela, ...04:41
fabbionecuba has bw04:41
fabbioneand more...04:41
Treenaksjdub: Chile?04:41
fabbioneexpecially a lot of more04:41
jdubTreenaks: possibly04:41
fabbioneGO SPARC GO!04:41
fabbioneit's catching up04:41
fabbionejdub: flumotion? how do i debug that problem with the grabbing?04:42
=== fabbione is hyperactive today
zulmore so than usual/04:42
jdubfabbione: try to run a raw gstreamer line with gst-launch-0.804:43
fabbionejdub: is that supposed to handle the grabbing?04:43
jdubthat will allow you to debug more closely to the problem area04:44
fabbionegst-launch-0.8 04:44
fabbioneERROR: pipeline could not be constructed: empty pipeline not allowed.04:44
jdubyou need to enter a pipeline ;)04:45
jdubit'll be like this:04:45
jdubgst-launch-0.8 v4lsrc ! videorate ! ffmpegcolorspace ! xvimagesink04:46
jdubsomething like that04:46
jdubif there's an error, let me know04:46
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fabbionejdub: see /msg04:49
fabbionethat's what i get04:49
jdubthat's the kind of error i'd direct you to #gstreamer about ;)04:49
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fabbionejdub: that's the kind of error the flumotion maintainer should fix for me :P04:50
smurfixFWIW, that gst command line works perfectly on my system04:50
fabbionesmurfix: here the problem seems to be related to IOCTL04:50
fabbionexawtv gets along with them04:50
fabbioneand it works04:50
fabbioneflumotion or ffmpeg don't04:50
fabbionestracing ffmpeg shows that it does some unknown (to the webcam) ioctl04:51
jdubfabbione: this is a gstreamer issue04:51
fabbionejdub: ok.. you know the guys in #gstreamer, don't you?04:51
fabbionei can help debugging and testing...04:51
fabbionelet me join04:51
jdubfabbione: what kind of webcam do you have?04:52
fabbionejdub: it's a quickcam from logitech04:52
fabbioneBus 002 Device 003: ID 046d:08f5 Logitech, Inc. 04:52
fabbionethat is supported only by one unofficial driver forked by something else04:52
fabbionethe driver is also called OOPSorama04:52
fabbionebut it works generally04:53
fabbioneat least it doens't die04:53
jdubi have a quickcam 400004:53
fabbioneAH hold on04:53
fabbioneerror was bogus04:53
fabbionei forgot the trick to make it working04:54
fabbionethe one in /msg is the correct one04:54
jdubtry this04:55
jdubv4lsrc num-buffers=2 ! ...04:55
jdubthe rest is the same as last time04:55
fabbione gst-launch-0.8 v4lsrc num-buffers=2 ! videorate ! ffmpegcolorspace ! xvimagesink 04:56
fabbionesame error04:56
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jdubwell, combination of weird driver and odd gstreamer output -> #gstreamer ;)04:57
fabbionei think there is something else wrong04:57
fabbioneERROR: from element /pipeline0/v4lsrc0: Could not read from resource.04:57
jdubthat's a relatively generic error04:58
fabbioneit looks like that it can't open the device at all04:58
fabbioneok.. dude.. /j #gstreamer04:58
fabbioneand introduce me to the guys04:58
fabbioneas your God :)04:58
fabbionesince i have root on your machine :)04:58
fabbioneMUHA MUHA04:58
sivanghowdy all05:01
Simirahi sivang05:03
sivanghey Simira, what's up?05:05
arithe new python-gtk2 crashes streamtuner on startup :(05:06
Simirasivang: not much, really. translations and stuff, as usual :) You're going to Ubuntu Down Under?05:06
sivangSimira: no idea :) are you?05:06
Simirasivang: I hope so ;)05:07
TreenaksI'm not :(05:07
zenwhenHaha, i didnt upgrade for a day and got 113MB behind.05:09
zenwhenStupid dialup05:10
ograjdub: do yo know anything about gnome.sound_init() ?05:12
fabbionejdub: the value for the minimum buffers is hardencoded05:15
fabbione= the sucks05:15
=== Mithrandir cooks up a new ooo-amd64
=== ogra waits in patience :)
=== Seveas [dennis@seveas.demon.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
=== fabbione boils a new mplayer that should build on amd64 and ppc
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dilingerfabbione: hm?05:39
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fabbionedilinger: n/m..05:49
Nafallofabbione: care to generate -nogui for amd64?05:50
fabbioneNafallo: right now the package build but there is no mplayer binary05:51
fabbionedrwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2005-03-12 16:39:12 ./usr/bin/ is empty05:51
Nafallohmm, works on i386 I guess?05:52
fabbioneit simply doesn't build anything05:52
fabbionenot even on ppc05:52
=== Nafallo apt-gets source mplayer-amd64 *
fabbioneyou need to get ubuntu505:53
fabbionei think it is fixable05:53
Nafallofabbione: URL? :-)05:53
fabbioneNafallo: it's in the archive05:53
NafalloI better sync then. ubuntu3 showed up here.05:55
Goshawkis there someone that have packaged a library here?05:55
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HiddenWolfugh, evolution doesn't work well at all with postscript06:05
TreenaksHiddenWolf: in what wat?06:05
=== ogra wants to know what this is : http://www.grawert.net/wiki_error.png
Treenaksway even06:07
HiddenWolfTreenaks: printing an html email from evo puts it on two pages, thunderbird does it one one, looking as intended06:07
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fabbionejdub: i found the problem06:08
fabbionejdub: basically gst v4l plugin waits for the camera to send frames06:09
fabbionewhile xawtv does active polling on the camera06:09
fabbionethe camera doesn't send frames back06:09
fabbioneand gst hangs06:09
fabbionewhile xawtv keeps going on with IOCTL06:09
fabbionei think this should be solved both in the driver and gst06:11
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=== Nafallo need a faster downstream *
TreenaksNafallo: get one :)06:15
NafalloTreenaks: trying. all ISPs I've tried want's to give me 0,5 maximum :-P.06:16
Nafallothey raised the rent, so I'm looking for a smaller apartment anyway.06:17
janimako ping06:18
HiddenWolftreenaks: see what I mean: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=752406:18
Nafallohmm, maybe I can sync with a faster speed when not downloading livecd's via torrent ;-)06:19
=== HiddenWolf hugs his 10mbit up/down line
dholbachsee you later06:24
fabbionejdub: YES!06:24
fabbionejdub: found it!06:24
fabbionejdub: it's a bug in gstream, but there is a workaround in the driver for the cam06:24
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Nafallolater all!06:29
fabbionejdub: but flumotion still doesn't love me06:29
janimako ping06:31
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makojani: oi06:33
makojani: sorry i missed you yesterday06:33
ogramako, :( http://www.grawert.net/wiki_error.png06:35
ograany idea ?06:35
makoogra: um... not really, were you trying to log into the wiki from www.ubuntu.com ?06:36
makoogra: evidently, it only works from www.ubuntulinux.org06:36
makoogra: but that looks slightly insane06:36
makono idea dude06:36
ograit is06:36
ograheh, ok06:36
kokeis there any reason to not enabling the zope external editor for the wiki??06:40
kokeI find it very helpful06:41
Treenaksperformance, maybe/06:41
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makokoke: oh yeah dude, it caused big problems06:42
makokoke: i think, in many/most versions of mozilla, in generated screwed up xhtml06:43
makokoke: it was buggy and broke our pages frequently06:43
makokoke: unless i'm thinking of something else?06:43
makokoke: you can use mozex though06:43
makoand you can edit any textfield in an external editor06:43
makoi couldn't live with out that06:44
kokeI've used it only a few times, in a personal test plone, so I didn't saw that :)06:44
makorecently, there were some firefox configuration bugs06:44
makothat were barring normal configuration of mozex06:44
kokethere's no package?06:44
makoit's a mozilla extension06:44
makoyou install it by clicking a link06:44
makoit's just hardly worth packaging unless it's by defaul06:44
makoand also, it has a firefox bug06:45
makobut you can set the configuration stuff through about:config06:45
makoi couldn't live with out it dude06:45
makoi would *die*06:45
=== mako is feeling overly dramatic this morning
kokeI see :)06:46
=== HiddenWolf bets he's feeling more dramatic than mako
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kokemako: which are the keys at about:config?06:50
janimako I'm back06:52
janiI wanted to ask you about06:52
janithe notary stuff06:52
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makokoke: mozex.command.textarea is the major one06:53
pittiHi folks06:54
ograhj pitti 06:54
kokeI don't have any mozex stuff at about:config but I've found an article using user.js06:54
fabbionehey pitti06:56
fabbionehi mako 06:56
fabbionepitti: you have mail06:56
pittifabbione: just read it06:56
pittifabbione: but I'm a bit in a hurry, just a quick email reading06:56
makofabbione: hey dude06:56
pittifabbione: but hey, you digged out _tons_ of crack from Debian :-/06:57
makokoke: you don't hmmmmm..06:57
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fabbionepitti: i am more concerned about the disclosure06:57
fabbionemako: what's up?06:57
fabbionepitti: all that stuff is public, so i am not too worried and we have patches handy06:58
kokemako: ggrreat it's working :D much better now, thanks06:59
makokoke: pretty nice, yeah? :)06:59
kokeif only vim had syntax highlighting for MoinMoin :P07:00
Treenakskoke: easy to write -> some regexps & Done07:00
LoevborgTreenaks, that's not so easy with vim :)07:00
TreenaksLoevborg: writing vim syntax files is not Hard.. just a lot of manual-reading07:01
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LoevborgTreenaks, I personally consider reading manuals hard (particularly vim regex syntax).07:02
=== Mithrandir looks at his new&shiny ooo-amd64
TreenaksMithrandir: working OOo bling?07:03
MithrandirTreenaks: working ooo bling on ia64 as well, yes.07:03
Mithrandirdefinitively bling07:03
TreenaksMithrandir: wow07:03
thierryis there anyway I could change my keyboard configuration the way I like it (my current configuration doesn't work the way I'd like and there's no better one)07:04
kokeTreenaks: it's done http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=72507:04
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fabbioneholy carp07:05
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Treenaksfabbione: carp? like.. the fish thingies?07:05
fabbionemplayer build rule is total crap07:05
fabbionebut it can be fixed somehow :-)07:05
fabbioneok i can fix it07:07
fabbionebut not tonight07:07
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=== doko wonders if mithrandir's new and shiny amd64 OOo includes the SansSerif font fix ...
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Treenakshi mdz07:13
zulhi mdz 07:13
pittiHi mdz 07:14
dokomorning mdz07:14
fabbionehey mdz07:15
fabbionemdz: any objections if i fix mplayer for ppc/amd64/sparc?07:16
=== ogra [~ogra@pD95F8778.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzfabbione: none whatsoever07:16
fabbionemdz: ok07:16
fabbionei still have to understand how did you manage to fly over that rules file07:17
mdzwhat rules file?07:19
fabbionethe one in mplayer07:19
fabbioneyou touched it last (before me)07:19
mdzyes, to fix the FTBFS07:19
mdzperhaps not in the ideal way07:19
fabbioneno problem.. i will make it nicer07:20
mdzI didn't even look at rules, I don't think07:20
fabbionenow i just want to see if it can build on amd64/ppc07:20
fabbionemdz: better!07:20
mdzit's upstream which is broken07:20
fabbioneyou spared yourself some pain07:20
fabbionewell more than upstream is the maintainer07:20
mdzit uses functions from libvorbisenc but does not link with it07:20
fabbionei rememebr compiling tons of time mplayer manually07:20
fabbioneoh that one yeah07:21
fabbionebut i mean the build system is the sucks07:21
mdzdaniels: ping?07:21
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ogradholbach, wb07:23
dholbachhi ogra 07:23
fabbionemdz: i think it's like 6 am there07:23
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pittimjg59: here?07:25
ogramdz: ping : your strace of hwdb-gui07:25
fabbionelater fellas07:28
zultoodles fabbione 07:28
ograciao fabio07:28
mdzogra: pong07:29
mdzfabbione: daniels was awake until 8am local recently07:29
ogramdz, are you sure esd was running at all when you tested ?07:29
ogramdz, access("/tmp/.esd/socket", R_OK|W_OK)   = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)07:30
ogradoesnt look like07:30
mdzogra: no, I am not, in fact I am fairly certain it was not07:30
ograah, ok07:30
mdzapparently, esdplay works without esd07:30
ograyup, but i dount use esdplay :)07:30
mdzright, but I used esdplay to test that esd was working :-)07:31
ograso i'll do some more tests on esd....07:31
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mdkeis anyone reporting a major bug in gnome? perhaps it is just my system07:46
janiis gcc3.2 still needed in universe?07:46
Treenaksmdke: what's the bug?07:46
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mdkeTreenaks, evolution takes 5 minutes to start, gnome-terminal crashes totally07:46
Treenaksmdke: look in top -> are there a few processes running at 100% CPU time?07:47
mdkelooks clean07:47
mdkeno processes i can see07:48
mdkesays 96% id tho07:48
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zenwhencd burning with k3b and nautilus has gone from great in warty for me to crap07:49
mdkegnome-system monitor isn't happy to start either07:49
zenwhenmy system just chugs while a dvd burns, and it can only burn at 2.4x, instead of the 8x it could in warty.07:50
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mdkeTreenaks, reboot has solved it. It may have been caused when I added my network device. Bizarre that it should need a reboot tho07:55
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zenwhenoh good, an old windows issue has returned in linux form. Now gnome wants to beleive that a dvd i ejected is stil there even when it isnt and it isnt mounted07:55
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dholbachoh pitti was here *grmbl*08:01
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ogradholbach, pitti is back :)08:04
dholbachhi pitti 08:04
dholbachpitti: want to have the raw iso files?08:04
=== pitti tests WLAN suspend/resume, which is brooken for him
pittidholbach: "have"?08:04
dholbachfor better rsyncing?08:04
pittidholbach: I thought you burn them on DVD?08:04
dholbachpitti: i was supposed to send them to you?08:04
pittidholbach: yes, just burn them08:04
pittidholbach: I can get them back with dd :-)08:05
pittidholbach: you already downloaded them?08:05
dholbachjust another 2 hours and i'm set08:05
pittidholbach: cool, thanks a lot08:05
dholbachde rien08:05
dholbachpitti: want to see something scary?08:06
pittidholbach: the ultimate root hole?08:06
dholbachpitti: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseUnmetDeps :-)08:06
pittisounds like work for you :-)08:06
=== ogra makes a funny face to scare pitti
dholbachhehe :-)08:06
pittidholbach: argh, that's huuuge08:08
pittibye folks, dinner & dancing waits for me :-)08:13
dholbachhave fun, pitti!08:13
Treenakspitti: good luck & have fun :)08:13
dholbachet bon apptit08:13
ogradancing ?08:13
pittiyou too!08:13
zulmdz: no i havent tested those vfat synchronization patches08:18
mpt_london"Generates a D-BUS message when new mail arrives"08:20
mpt_londonThis Evolution checkbox label brought to you by the RTFM Department08:21
Mithrandirmpt_london: that sounds plausibly useful08:21
mpt_londonMithrandir: ... I'm sure it is, if you're one of the ~0.01 percent of people who know what on earth "D-BUS" is08:21
Treenaksit should just send the message and don't care08:22
Treenaksyou can disable the dbus-sending if you disable the plugin08:22
=== mpt_london isn't one of that 0.01 percent yet ;-)
Mithrandirmpt_london: yeah, as a pref, it sounds fairly useless.08:23
Treenaksmpt_london: man dbus08:24
mpt_londonNo manual entry for dbus.08:25
Treenaksdbus-something then08:28
Treenaksor apt-cache shwo :)08:28
mpt_londonwe left Aunt Tillie a long, long time ago, Treenaks :-)08:28
Treenaksmpt_london: I know :)08:28
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=== mpt_london googles
kokeelmo, ping?08:30
kokeelmo, I mailed a whitelist to upload@ one week ago, do you know something about?08:31
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rubenvare the apache2 packages in freeze, or will 2.0.53-5 (as in debian unstable) still leak into ubuntu?08:57
rubenvthere are debian debs for PHP5 but they depend on 2.0.53-508:57
rubenvhmmm, Maybe I'd rather rebuild them for ubuntu08:58
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ograrubenv: there are no syncs with debian until the release....09:01
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ograrubenv: at least not without a good reason (heavy breakage etc)09:01
rubenvogra: okay, I'll try to rebuild them manually then09:01
ograrubenv: thats really great, i'd like to see them in universe before release09:02
rubenvit's just for development anyway now09:02
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rubenvi've just grabbed dexter's source pkg, my pbuilder chroot is updating09:02
rubenvhaving php5 (in universe) would be nice though09:04
rubenvmakes my life a bit easier ;-)09:04
ograrubenv: add it here once its ready for review: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUNewPackages09:05
rubenvogra: okay, will take some time, I have experience with building seperate packages, not with the packaging process as a whole09:06
rubenvbut i'll manage :)09:06
ograrubenv: oh, and i heard roumors that infinity is the debian maintainer09:07
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rubenvogra: hmmm, strange09:07
rubenvlet's see if he has more current pkgs then dexter09:07
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MithrandirKamion: new ooo-amd64 with ia64 support now uploaded, so assuming it builds fine, updating the seeds should be fine.09:22
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mdzseen mvo or pitti today?09:46
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Mithrandirpitti was around a couple of hours back09:47
mdzneed someone to test #713809:48
Mithrandirpowerpc needed, I guess?09:51
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mdzhmm, maybe that is all that's needed09:55
mdzin which case I could test it myself09:56
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dholbachoh baby, wiki me harder: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps :-)10:53
Keybukmdz: have a bug :p10:56
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ogradholbach, why is ooo2 on this list ?10:58
dholbachogra: feel free to remove it... it's not installable, that's why and since i live on amd64 :-)10:59
ogradholbach, me too, but its all haggais, so MOTU doesnt need to touch it10:59
ogradholbach, removed :)11:00
dholbachplease remove it then... i.e. i won't touch any kernel/mono thing, but it's on the list too - or just put it at the very at of the list11:00
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dholbachhi enrico 11:03
enricodholbach: hi!11:03
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dholbachenrico: i saw you're the maintainer of debtags and debtags-edit11:04
enricodholbach: that's me!11:04
dholbachcould you rebuild them with the current apt?11:04
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enricodholbach: problems?11:04
dholbachno.. they're just not installable atm11:04
enricogosh, ok11:05
dholbachno worry, just wanted to mention it11:05
ograenrico: i looked over the document previews today 11:05
enricodholbach: sure, thanks.  Is there a bug reported for it?11:06
dholbachenrico: no, it's just on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseUnmetDeps11:06
enricodholbach: I don't understand the issue very well, however I need to chair a docteam meeting on #ubuntu-meeting now: please ping me later11:08
enricoogra: want to come to the meeting and tell how it was/11:08
ograalready in the channel ;)11:08
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mdzenrico: the libapt ABI has changed in Hoary (more than once, even), so programs using it need to be rebuilt with the current apt11:09
enricomdz: what I don't understand is: since Hoary has source-only uploads, how come you just don't trigger a rebuild?11:09
enricoI'd just need to reupload the source unchanged?11:10
enricoInto... Hoary or Debian?11:10
mdzenrico: correct, a source upload is required11:10
mdzenrico: into Hoary, where the uninstallable package is11:10
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dholbachbut a triggered rebuild would be VERY nice ;-)11:10
mdzwe don't do bin-only NMUs11:10
ograhmm, we dont do NMUs at all ;)11:11
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dholbachnon-maintainer upload11:14
Keybukwe don't do binary uploads at all either11:15
dholbachoh my, seems like most packages on UniverseUnmetDeps are broken badly11:15
psy_i remember reading something about using different apps to connect to a single gtk-widget. Does anyone here know how that works?11:26
psy_ehh, not at the same time of-course, i mean different apps connecting to each-others widgets.11:27
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Keybukbonobo? gtksocket?11:31
psy_gtksocket? hmm, that sounds familiar (doing a google to see if that's what i mean)11:34
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psy_Keybuk: you're tha best :) thanx11:36
mdzthom: ping?11:37
mdzKeybuk: the buildds do binary uploads...11:37
Keybukmdz: the gerbils inside do, you mean :p11:38

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