[12:04] <fabbione> interesting...
[12:04] <fabbione> svenl: ping?
[12:43] <sid77> hi
[12:52] <YokoZar> Ok, I'm writing a scrollkeeper OMF file to put the Wine documentation in a standard place so it's viewable from the help menu.  The trouble is I'm having trouble figuring out what category to place it in from the list at ( /usr/share/scrollkeeper/Templates/C/scrollkeeper_cl.xml ) - is it possible to add an entry to that list, or is there one I should pick from?
[12:53] <ogra> YokoZar: the doc team just finished a meeting in #ubuntu-meeting, probably there someone can help
[12:53] <YokoZar> Thank you
[03:10] <AndyFitz> clearlooks is the sexiest gtk engine ever
[03:10] <AndyFitz> probably no chance of getting it into hoary... but damn thats a shame.   
[03:11] <thully> what do you mean.. hoary preview uses clearlooks
[03:12] <dredg> niall@malkovich:~(0)$ dpkg -l gtk2-engines-clearlooks|grep ^ii
[03:12] <dredg> ii  gtk2-engines-c 0.4-0ubuntu2   ClearLooks theme
[03:12] <dholbach> hehe
[03:13] <AndyFitz> copy this gtkrc into your clearlooks human folder...  http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/gtk-2.0/gtkrc    its a quick colourmod I did to make it look more like industrial.   
[03:13] <crimsun> AndyFitz: both ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-artwork depend on gtk2-engines-clearlooks
[03:13] <AndyFitz> its just so professional. all the widgets look sexy
[03:14] <AndyFitz> crimsun,  I thought we were using industrial by default ?
[03:17] <wasabi> Who do I have to go to to get a package moved from multiverse to universe?
[03:17] <wasabi> I just freed it.
[03:18] <dholbach> wasabi: maybe the TB *shrug*
[03:18] <wasabi> TB=?
[03:18] <dholbach> technical board
[03:18] <wasabi> oye.
[03:19] <crimsun> wasabi: you'll need to include documentation of the new license and a copy of the conversation, too
[03:19] <wasabi> It's not a license problem.
[03:19] <wasabi> It was contrib previously
[03:19] <wasabi> in debian
[03:19] <crimsun> main now?
[03:19] <wasabi> Will be if it EVER gets thru new.
[03:20] <wasabi> I hear NEW in debian is pretty backed up though. :0
[03:20] <wasabi> (I am in close touch with the debian maintainers)
[03:20] <dholbach> wasabi: we're not debian :-)
[03:20] <wasabi> yes yes yes, doesn't change the fact though.
[03:20] <wasabi> It's only in multiverse because of a previous dependency. It is not a license problem.
[03:21] <dholbach> if you tell it the right people in that way everything should be fine
[03:22] <wasabi> i dont follow?
[03:22] <wasabi> TB I can follow. ;)
[03:34] <dholbach> good night everyone
[03:34] <crimsun> night daniel
[03:35] <Keybuk> probably not worth TB, a mail to ubuntu-devel would be sufficient
[03:35] <dholbach> bye crimsun
[04:31] <tseng> hi all
[05:10] <mdz> Kamion: ping, re: LCA registration
[07:39] <svenl> fabbione: pong
[08:14] <mantiena> hi all
[08:28] <fabbione> morning
[08:29] <fabbione> mdz: ping?
[08:29] <fabbione> svenl: ping?
[08:30] <svenl> fabbione: here or on d-k ? 
[08:30] <fabbione> here.. it's ubuntu related :-)
[08:30] <fabbione> mind to look at this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/m/mplayer/1:1.0-pre6-0.3ubuntu6/mplayer_1:1.0-pre6-0.3ubuntu6_20050312-1837-powerpc-failed
[08:30] <fabbione> and tell me if you have any idea of why it fails?
[08:31] <fabbione> it's really a strange error (for me at leat)
[08:34] <svenl> urk, mplayer, never used this one, i thought it was borderline non-free.
[08:35] <fabbione> svenl: it's in multiverse
[08:35] <fabbione> not main
[08:35] <fabbione> it had a very broken build rules
[08:35] <svenl> I would say bad altivec code at first sight, can you ask me again tomorrow ? Today is my wife's birthday and i promised not to code overmuch :)
[08:35] <fabbione> yesterday i unfucked it a bit
[08:35] <fabbione> and managed to get amd64 out
[08:35] <fabbione> sure!
[08:35] <mantiena> daniels: hi could you explain me some things about driver autodetection in yours xorg packages ?
[08:36] <fabbione> svenl: have a nice day ;)
[08:36] <svenl> fabbione: hehe.
[08:45] <ace2001ac> fabbione: does mplayer on amd64 do everything that mplayer on i386 does?
[08:45] <ace2001ac> fabbione: or do you lose some functionality?
[08:46] <fabbione> ace2001ac: no idea. it builds. that's all i know
[08:46] <fabbione> clearly there are no codecs around
[08:47] <fabbione> so it is automatically limited
[08:47] <ace2001ac> fabbione: ah, cool
[08:50] <fabbione> it would be even more cool if they stopped this codec madness ages ago
[08:51] <fabbione> I NEED TO FART!
[08:51] <mdz> fabbione: pong
[08:51] <fabbione> *** please install the new farting codec from www.fart.com ***
[08:52] <fabbione> mdz: morning :-)
[08:52] <fabbione> mdz: i wrote it in the mail ;)
[08:52] <fabbione> i had the feeling you were asleep
[08:52] <mdz> it is later than I thought, but i am not asleep yet
[08:52] <fabbione> hehe
[08:53] <fabbione> mdz: i am afraid your approach will slow down the process to hell
[08:53] <ace2001ac> fabbione: i agree, i would prefer open codecs for everyone :)
[08:53] <fabbione> that's what i am scared off
[08:53] <fabbione> mdz: i think we can find another solution on the way of langpacks instead
[08:53] <fabbione> mdz: exposing a tarball from the buildd that can be fetched by everyone
[08:53] <mdz> that is much more complicated than I think it needs to be
[08:54] <fabbione> mdz: it is more complicated the other way imho
[08:54] <fabbione> specially for arches in "port in progress"
[08:54] <fabbione> where we have no access
[08:54] <fabbione> and i am not talking about sparc here :-)
[08:54] <fabbione> but more generally
[08:54] <mdz> the architecture is not very important, as far as I am concerned
[08:55] <mdz> it is not necessary to do builds on every architecture
[08:55] <fabbione> indeed it is
[08:55] <fabbione> the ABI file is per arch per flavour
[08:55] <fabbione> or subarch
[08:55] <mdz> the ABI has been broken several times already in hoary
[08:55] <fabbione> or whatever you want to call it
[08:55] <mdz> and 0 of those times have been arch-specific
[08:55] <fabbione> well that's because we have never seen nvidia on ppc
[08:55] <mdz> the point of this exercise is to catch the common mistake
[08:55] <fabbione> or stuff like that
[08:56] <fabbione> yes i understand your point but since we are doing it, let's do it full feature
[08:57] <fabbione> take into account that such manual requirement can delay an upload up to 4 hours
[08:57] <mdz> I don't want to get involved with transferring this data in and out of the buildds when something simpler would meet the realistic requirements
[08:58] <fabbione> (due to ppc)
[08:58] <fabbione> and i am talking for one build.
[08:58] <fabbione> if that build breaks the ABI the upload will take ages
[08:58] <fabbione> either to find what breaks
[08:58] <fabbione> or to change the ABI
[09:01] <fabbione> otherwise i think we should defer this for hoary+1
[09:01] <fabbione> and discuss at UDU how to implement it so that it is an easy tool to use
[09:02] <mdz> by all means, let's discuss for hoary+1 how to do it the way that you want
[09:02] <mdz> but for now, we can implement it as I propose and get significant benefit
[09:03] <fabbione> ok i will see with the other guys
[09:03] <fabbione> and what they think about ti
[09:03] <mdz> we can't break the ABI this way anymore in Hoary; it disrupts development and testing too much
[09:03] <mdz> the current set of live CDs are broken because of it
[09:04] <fabbione> didn't they sync with -27 ?
[09:05] <mdz> no
[09:05] <mdz> it requires a d-i build and byhand upload
[09:05] <fabbione> humpf...
[09:05] <mantiena> mdz: I've patch'ed casper's package to have installation mode - added boolean casper/install-mode variable into template and when this variable is set to yes, then:
[09:05] <mantiena> 1.  all casper's post.d scripts are disabled
[09:05] <mantiena> 2. "pivot_root . initrd" and "kill -USR1 1" are not executed in casper-udeb.postinst
[09:05] <mantiena> 3. "umount /target", ""mkdir /source" and "mount /dev/mappper/casper-snapshot /source" are executed at the end of casper-udeb.postinst
[09:05] <mantiena> (look at http://www.gnoppix.org/wiki/index.php/LiveCDInstaller )
[09:05] <mantiena> could you add my patch to official casper package ? then ubuntu-based liveCD distributions could have a posibility to install liveCD to hard disk without patching casper's package every time, when new casper version is released
[09:06] <fabbione> mdz: but d-i is builded daily, so it should be there
[09:06] <mdz> mantiena: not for Hoary, but I already planned to implement such a feature for Hoary+1
[09:06] <fabbione> ideally the livecd should be able to use it
[09:07] <fabbione> mdz: how about this:
[09:07] <mdz> fabbione: it is built daily, but it isn't installed until elmo byhands it
[09:07] <mdz> and often elmo can't do this until after the daily CD build
[09:07] <fabbione> ah ok...
[09:07] <mdz> honestly, the best solution is not to break the kernel
[09:07] <mdz> it is not only the CDs, but user systems
[09:07] <fabbione> yes i agree on that :-))
[09:07] <fabbione> i suggest this approach
[09:08] <fabbione> we can add an -abi package to distribute the last built abi
[09:08] <fabbione> at least for people without porting machine access
[09:08] <fabbione> we do NOT build-dep on it
[09:08] <svenl> daniels: i spoke some with benh, and it seems that if there is one monitor, it will always be edid1, independently on which port is it connected.
[09:08] <fabbione> but at least the abi are available for download from the archive
[09:08] <fabbione> it would make it easier the development
[09:09] <svenl> daniels: there will be a change to these things later on, but this will be post-hoary, and we need to rework xresprobe to do proper multi-headed stuff though.
[09:09] <fabbione> in case of a dumb upload the abi checker will make the kernel FTBFS
[09:09] <fabbione> so there is actually no breakage
[09:09] <mdz> it can't perform the check without build-depending on the package
[09:09] <mdz> which is why I specified that it should go in the source package
[09:09] <fabbione> mdz: no it is still the maintainer job to grab the abi's and put them in proper source
[09:10] <fabbione> but it gets easier than going around porting machine and fetching them manually
[09:10] <fabbione> what has been built must still be copied in the source
[09:10] <fabbione> just a simpler way to distribute them around
[09:11] <mdz> I had good reasons for specifying it the way that I did, and paramount among them was simplicity
[09:11] <fabbione> yes but again.. i don't want to build-dep on it
[09:11] <fabbione> it's just to make it easier to have the abi files available
[09:12] <fabbione> but if you don't like it.. ok. we can live with that
[09:12] <mdz> for hoary, let's do it my way, and in UDU, you can take responsibility for specifying the second iteration
[09:12] <fabbione> ok
[09:13] <dholbach> hai
[09:13] <mantiena> mdz: but my patch doesn't nothing if variable casper/install-mode is set to no (default is no), so it would break anythink in hoary
[09:13] <mantiena> it's very simple, only one if and else ;)
[09:13] <fabbione> mantiena: we are at 3 weeks from release
[09:13] <mdz> mantiena: we are a full month into feature freeze, please respect the release cycle
[09:13] <fabbione> each patch means a big round of testing
[09:14] <mdz> I like the idea; as I said, I had already planned to implement this for hoary+1
[09:14] <mdz> but your implementation is not complete, and I see no reason to force it into hoary
[09:15] <mantiena> mdz: what I should complete ?
[09:16] <mdz> mantiena: from looking at your wiki page (why is this in the gnoppix wiki rather than the Ubuntu wiki where I would have seen it?), you don't configure the base system at all
[09:16] <mdz> there is no partitioner
[09:16] <mdz>  /etc/inittab will be completely inappropriate for the installed system
[09:16] <mantiena> mdz: it seems you don't understand me
[09:17] <mantiena> ubuntu-installer already has partitioner
[09:17] <mdz> not on the live CD it doesn't
[09:20] <mantiena> mdz: it's not my problem, because older live CD versions (until array-5) contained all needed udebs for installation
[09:20] <mdz> mantiena: that was a bug which has since been fixed
[09:21] <mantiena> mdz: I don't call it a bug ;)
[09:21] <mdz> well, that's what it was
[09:22] <mantiena> why you think, that /etc/inittab will be completely inappropriate for the installed system ?
[09:22] <mdz> because you copy it from the live CD
[09:22] <mdz> according to your wiki page
[09:23] <mantiena> filesystem.cloop has bad inittab ?
[09:23] <mdz> oh, you disable post.d
[09:23] <mdz> so the language is not configured, etc.
[09:23] <mantiena> hehe :-P
[09:24] <_d4vid> hi all
[09:24] <mdz> mantiena: here is how we implement features in Ubuntu
[09:24] <mdz> first we establish requirements
[09:24] <mdz> then we write a specification
[09:24] <mdz> these are discussed among developers
[09:24] <mdz> and then we write the code
[09:25] <mantiena> mdz: I already wrote specifications at http://www.gnoppix.org/wiki/index.php/LiveCDInstaller :)
[09:25] <mdz> from the beginning the feature is targeted for a release, and is incorporated at the appropriate time in the releasae cycle
[09:25] <mdz> we do not take a feature, which appears from nowhere, and drop it into the release at the last minute
[09:25] <mdz> this is a post-Hoary feature
[09:26] <mantiena> mdz: ok, but maybe you could just add my patch into casper sources and don't enable it at build time ?
[09:26] <mdz> mantiena: why?
[09:27] <mdz> mantiena: if you are looking for acknowledgement of your work, thank you, I think it is very interesting
[09:27] <mdz> but it does not belong in hoary, it will need to wait
[09:28] <mantiena> my patch simply modifies 3 files:
[09:28] <mantiena> http://files.akl.lt/incoming/casper/casper-check.templates
[09:28] <mantiena> http://files.akl.lt/incoming/casper/S60casper-check
[09:28] <mantiena> http://files.akl.lt/incoming/casper/casper-udeb.postinst
[09:29] <mdz> I have said no, and I will not be pressured on this
[09:29] <sm> give up mantiena :)
[09:30] <mdz> don't give up, just be patient and work according to our schedule
[09:30] <mantiena> it's hard to work with ubuntu developers - they don't want to accept others work, there are no CVS, SVN where other developers could put patches :(
[09:31] <mdz> the former is demonstrably false
[09:31] <mantiena> mdz: so, where I should put my patch to be visible ?
[09:31] <mdz> it is true that we do not have a centralized revision control repository, but the fact that there are many people already collaborating on Ubuntu shows that this is not a requirement
[09:31] <mdz> mantiena: where would you put it if we had a CVS repository?
[09:32] <mantiena> mdz: in CVS
[09:32] <mdz> mantiena: it would not go in CVS for the same reason that it won't go in the Hoary package
[09:33] <sm> you guys could do with a bunch of darcs repos
[09:33] <sm> mantiena could publish and ubuntu could pull when ready
[09:33] <mdz> sm: we're converging on arch
[09:33] <sm> ah
[09:33] <mdz> we just don't have everything imported at this point
[09:33] <mdz> it will happen, though
[09:33] <mdz> I have been meaning to import casper; I just haven't had time to do it properly
[09:34] <mdz> mantiena: if I put casper in arch, so that you could branch and publish your patch that way, would that help you?
[09:34] <mantiena> mdz: YES
[09:37] <mantiena> my live CD was based on morphix framework and it was great to work together with morphix developers, because they don't force me to follow to they shedule, I always could add my work to official CVS repository if not in main branch, then in another ;)
[09:38] <mantiena> and then other developers could review and test my work.
[09:38] <mdz> morphix doesn't have a schedule
[09:39] <mdz> and so far in your dealings with Ubuntu, you have been aggressive, uncooperative and impolite
[09:40] <mantiena> mdz: I'm simple
[09:41] <mantiena> I'm not very good in english, but this was not a problem with lots of other projects, which I work together
[09:41] <mantiena> mdz: I'm not aggresive and not uncooperative
[09:42] <mantiena> I simply tell what I think
[09:42] <mantiena> maybe not in perfect english language
[09:51] <mantiena> mdz: I'm always happy to critique, so if you see any problem you can tell me.
[09:51] <mantiena> If you put casper in arch, cvs, svn or something and allow me to put code to separate branch it would be very good for me (and for other developers, like amu from gnoppix).
[09:51] <mantiena> Maybe then there will be less communication problems between us ? ;)
[09:51] <mdz> mantiena: baz register-archive http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/archives/matt.zimmerman@canonical.com--2004
[09:53] <mdz> mantiena: I had intended to do it for some time anyway
[09:54] <mdz> mantiena: so if you had asked for it, rather than accusing Ubuntu of being hard to work with, that would have been more productive
[09:54] <mdz> it is very easy to set up
[09:54] <mantiena> yes
[09:54] <mdz> but I am extraordinarily busy, and I am trying to have a weekend off
[09:54] <mantiena> mdz: I'm happy, that you allow me to work togerher
[09:55] <fabbione> mdz: you didn't have much of a success up til now ;)
[09:55] <mdz> fabbione: and I still am not; I end up spending my weekend arguing with mantiena
[09:55] <fabbione> mdz: go and rest dude
[09:55] <fabbione> mdz: if there is anything important i will send you an sms
[09:55] <dholbach> mdz: yeah... have a nice weekend
[09:56] <mdz> I am trying to promote understanding and cooperation :-P
[09:56] <fabbione> mdz: i am cooperating to let you have a weekend
[09:56] <fabbione> go out of here
[09:56] <fabbione> and relax
[09:56] <fabbione> otherwise i am going to break you in a few pieces at UDU
[09:56] <fabbione> :P
[09:56] <fabbione> you must rest
[09:57] <dholbach> fabbione: you forgot the exclamation marks
[09:57] <mdz> exclamation marks are not necessary
[09:58] <dholbach> hi doko
[09:59] <YokoZar> mdz I am giving you an electronic weekend over the internet so you don't need to find one ok?
[09:59] <mdz> YokoZar: thanks, but there is no electronic substitute :-)
[10:00] <YokoZar> We can still be eFriends right?
[10:02] <doko> good morning all
[10:02] <HiddenWolf> morning
[10:03] <mantiena> hi doko
[10:12] <mantiena> hehe, it seems arch in debian is *very* outdated (more than 3 years old. :( )
[10:14] <rubenv> mantiena: that's why all the cool kids use Ubuntu ;-)
[10:15] <mdz> mantiena: apt-get install bazaar
[10:18] <mantiena> rubenv: ubuntu doesn't have arch package :-P
[10:18] <mantiena> mdz: ok, it seems at least arch package description in debian should be updated ;)
[10:18] <whiprush> tla is also available
[10:18] <mdz> mantiena: don't be ridiculous
[10:19] <mdz> mantiena: ubuntu has both tla and bazaar, the two main implementations of arch
[10:19] <mdz> Debian does also
[10:19] <mdz> Debian's tla is slightly more up-to-date, and Ubuntu's bazaar is slightly more up-to-date
[10:20] <rubenv> (but main is in freeze now)
[10:20] <mantiena> GheRivero: hi, how things are going in spain ?
[10:21] <mantiena> mdz: I don't wanna waste your time, but in any case if some user (who never tried arch) want's to use arch then first thing he tries is apt-get install arch ;)
[10:22] <rubenv> mantiena: a new time user should rather read a guide on how to use it
[10:22] <rubenv> and that guide will always mention tla/baz
[10:22] <mantiena> rubenv: yea, that's why I installed arch
[10:23] <mantiena> rubenv: and read files in /usr/share/doc/arch
[10:23] <rubenv> a website always contains better info dude :-)
[10:23] <GheRivero> hi mantiena! really good! 
[10:23] <GheRivero> and there?
[10:25] <mantiena> rubenv: and noticed, that they are more than 3 years old and don't mention not tla nor baz :(
[10:27] <mantiena> GheRivero: in Lithuanian not so good - fucking government publish almost all document to Lithuanian people only in fucking MS Office formats, also lots of public sector's web pages work only with fucking MS IE :((((((((
[10:28] <GheRivero> that's a problem,a big problem
[10:29] <crimsun> mdz: err, sorry about #7556. If Malone's ready, I'll use that instead.
[10:32] <mantiena> yea, in lithuanian there is a law for government institutions that they should publish all document also in open formats, but majority (about 95%) of government institutions don't follow this law :(
[10:32] <mantiena> so even when people buy computer with linux, they are forced to buy or pirate M$ Windows, because they simply can't fill tax form or read info from public sectors web pages with Linux :(
[10:36] <HiddenWolf> mantiena: luckily the EU has put some clout behind legislation that all documents should be oss formats
[10:57] <doko> mithrandir: around?
[10:58] <Mithrandir> yes
[10:59] <doko> can you reproduce the libdl.so error, after removing ia32-libs?
[10:59] <Mithrandir> which libdl.so error?
[11:00] <doko> #7542 and #7543
[11:02] <Mithrandir> given that I haven't read email yet today, no, I haven't seen them and haven't analyzed them.
[11:05] <mantiena> HiddenWolf: in our country such law is active about 2 years, but problem is, that institutions don't follow law :(
[11:05] <mantiena> haggai: you are openoffice.org maintainer, right ?
[11:06] <Mithrandir> doko: give me time to eat some breakfast and I'll look at it afterwards.
[11:08] <dholbach> does anybody know the specification of the amd64-buildd?
[11:08] <fabbione> dholbach: they are big fat mother fuckers :)
[11:08] <dholbach> just want to estimate how long the ACE build is going to take on my box
[11:09] <dholbach> *cry* it took nearly 1,5h on the buildd
[11:12] <doko> Mithrandir: thanks
[11:14] <dholbach> fabbione: i like your explicit use of language, it makes things less virtual :-)
[11:14] <fabbione> dholbach: ???
[11:14] <fabbione> in reference to what?
[11:14] <dholbach> fabbione: "big fat mother fuckers" :-)
[11:14] <fabbione> ahhhh
[11:15] <fabbione> i am pretty famous for that
[11:15] <dholbach> yeah... thanks for that :-)
[11:15] <fabbione> Mith and thom know :-)
[11:16] <dholbach> i was nearly lying on the floor, when you talked about dildos, goatse and CAN
[11:17] <fabbione> ahaha
[11:27] <Mithrandir> dholbach: iirc, they are dual 246 or 248s with 2G of memory and decent disk systems.
[11:28] <dholbach> 246 doesnt tell me anything
[11:29] <Mithrandir> 246 is opteron at 2.0GHz
[11:29] <dholbach> but sounds like it's about to take 4 hours at my place or something
[11:29] <Mithrandir> depends on whether the build uses both CPUs or not.
[11:29] <dholbach> just for a one-line-change
[11:31] <HiddenWolf> dholbach: then wait untill you've changed more lines. :)
[11:32] <dholbach> somebody hand me a club... a big one please ;-)
[11:33] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: run! ;-)
[11:34] <Mithrandir> fabbione: mplayer seems to be a happy badger here
[11:35] <HiddenWolf> dholbach: ;)
[11:36] <dholbach> oh... it's about to finish... "only" 2,5h :-) *YAY*
[11:37] <Mithrandir> doko: does hoary support the Fritz!DSL adapters now?
[11:39] <doko> Mithrandir: yes
[11:40] <doko> Mithrandir: not yet on amd64
[11:48] <Mithrandir> doko: ok, cool.  Out of the box?
[11:48] <Mithrandir> If so, I'm pondering doing a reinstall of my router.
[11:50] <doko> well, you have still to edit /etc/isdn/capi.conf to uncomment one line ...
[11:53] <Mithrandir> sure, I have a working system so I can duplicate most stuff from there.
[12:17] <doko> wasabi: is there a need for this really_long_usr_lib_jdk_home_path_that_nobody_can_remember pathname in java-gcj-compat ?
[12:20] <mantiena> haggai: you are openoffice.org maintainer, right ?
[12:26] <doko> mithrandir: how do you let a buildd think it runs on i386 instead in a i386 chroot on amd64. unfortunately uname -m tells the truth ...
[12:27] <Mithrandir> linux32
[12:52] <mjg59> thom: Got some new crack for power management
[12:52] <amu> elmo: jackass say "ccache: failed to create (null)/.ccache (No such file or directory)" http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/b/blender/2.36-1ubuntu1/blender_2.36-1ubuntu1_20050313-1139-i386-failed
[12:56] <amu> mjg59: did you find out why sleep doesnt work on a ibook? 
[12:58] <mjg59> amu: Which ibook?
[12:58] <mjg59> How does it fail?
[12:58] <mantiena> amu: hi
[12:59] <amu> mjg59: ibook g4 ... resume doesnt work correctly, after awacke, there's a black screen
[12:59] <amu> mantiena: hi 
[01:00] <mjg59> amu: Try disabling DRI and GLX in your X configuration
[01:05] <jordi> d
[01:10] <amu> mjg59: great, works! only a problem, if a usb-stick is plugined 
[01:15] <mjg59> amu: Ok. What sort of ibook is it?
[01:19] <kagou> is there a way to allow a new installation to keep the /home directory ? (single partition)
[01:26] <amu> mjg59: ibook G4 1200mhz (287), revision 1.2,  12"   
[01:27] <mjg59> Radeon 9200?
[01:28] <amu> yep 9200 M9+ rev.01, RV250, 5c63 
[01:29] <mantiena> kagou: yes
[01:29] <kagou> mantiena, could you explain me ?
[01:43] <mantiena> yes ;)
[02:04] <mantiena> fabbione: ubuntu bug #3609 is assigned to you, what you think about solving this bug ?
[02:05] <mantiena> currently ubuntu users can't work with firewire devices :(
[02:56] <HiddenWolf> what is that entire mess with libhowl?
[02:56] <Treenaks> license mess
[02:56] <Treenaks> some part of it was licensed under some non-free apple license
[03:02] <lunitik> Thank you to whoever pushed for Clearlooks as default theme, good choice  :)
[03:03] <mantiena> fabbione: are you online ?
[03:04] <ogra> lunitik: thank our sabdfl :)
[03:06] <lunitik> ogra, 8-)   (still wonder what that means though)
[03:06] <ogra> lunitik: self applied dictator for life
[03:06] <ogra> lunitik: Mark Shuttleworth
[03:06] <lunitik> you don't have that covered  ;)
[03:06] <Mithrandir> benevolent
[03:07] <ogra> oh, shame on me, benevolent indeed
[03:08] <lunitik> Still cool though to see the person responsible for Ubuntu online with the users and devels though  :)
[03:14] <seb128> elmo: pwlib / gnomemeeting syncs please
[03:15] <thierry> Hi, I'd like to make a new ubuntu package for the new version of gdesklets (0.34.1) can anyone give an url or advices how to do this?
[03:16] <seb128> oh, nice
[03:16] <seb128> gdesklets is looking for a new maintainer :)
[03:17] <ogra> lol
[03:17] <Mithrandir> seb128: "more than 2G memory recommended"? ;)
[03:17] <seb128> I've planned to mail about some GNOME stuff that need a maintainer
[03:17] <dholbach> thierry: you could join #ubuntu-motu :-)
[03:17] <seb128> Mithrandir: gdesklets is really crap
[03:17] <Mithrandir> seb128: no shit? :)
[03:18] <seb128> upstream break compatibility and user configuration every 2 new versions
[03:18] <mantiena> seb128: you are gnome-system-tools maintainer ?
[03:18] <dholbach> seb128: we put nautilus-media on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MorgueCandidates?
[03:18] <ogra> thierry: thats a very brave attempt, respect :)
[03:18] <seb128> the desklets are a collection of quick and dirty python stuff wroten by guys who don't know how to program, just do a quick hack and don't maintain it
[03:18] <seb128> etc
[03:19] <dholbach> seb128: hope it's ok
[03:19] <seb128> dholbach: read the list and bugzilla please
[03:19] <seb128> mantiena: correct
[03:20] <fabbione> hey seb
[03:20] <seb128> dholbach: there is a bug in bugzilla about nautilus-media
[03:20] <dholbach> seb128: could we reflect this decision in gnome-desktop-environment?
[03:20] <fabbione> mantiena: i am now, but not for long
[03:20] <seb128> the gnome package needs to work to, if somebody wants to send a patch he's welcome
[03:20] <seb128> hi fabbione 
[03:21] <seb128> basically we have gnome from debian 2.8
[03:21] <seb128> gnome/gnome-desktop-environment/... etc
[03:21] <seb128> I don't really care since we use ubuntu-desktop
[03:21] <mantiena> seb128: there is one problem for desktop users in users-admin tool - they create a new user with users-admin, but newly created user can't work with audio, cdrom, various usb devices, etc, because newly created user isn't added to needed groups as default
[03:21] <fabbione> seb128: i am getting this building a bunch of packages on sparc:
[03:21] <fabbione>  /bin/sed: can't read /usr/lib/libhowl.la: No such file or directory
[03:21] <mantiena> fabbione: ubuntu bug #3609 is assigned to you, what you think about solving this bug ?
[03:22] <dholbach> seb128: but waht would be the deal if we just removed the dependency from gnome-desktop-environment?
[03:22] <fabbione> seb128: is it just question of kicking it back?
[03:22] <seb128> mantiena: it really should, ping sivang about this, he's working on that
[03:22] <seb128> fabbione: grep howl /usr/lib/*.la ?
[03:22] <ogra> mantiena: did you choose the right profile ?
[03:22] <seb128> dholbach: I don't really care but I would prefer if somebody updates it for GNOME 2.10
[03:23] <fabbione> seb128: i did it a long time ago when we unrolled the libhowl problem.. apparently some package still search for it, but it's nothing important
[03:23] <seb128> fabbione: should be a just kick yep
[03:23] <fabbione> seb128: or urgent
[03:23] <mantiena> ogra: there are already preconfigured profiles in ubuntu's users-admin ?
[03:23] <fabbione> seb128: roger that :-)
[03:23] <seb128> mantiena: correct
[03:23] <ogra> mantiena: thats what sivang introduced, yes
[03:24] <mantiena> ogra: hehe, it's what I want to suggest ;)
[03:24] <fabbione> mantiena: hounestly.. i have 132 bugs assigned on me and that is one with the lowest priority.
[03:24] <fabbione> (or almost)
[03:25] <fabbione> so please do not push for stuff
[03:25] <thierry> seb128: what is the bug for the gnome package thing?
[03:25] <seb128> thierry: what bug ?
[03:25] <seb128> move to query for gdesklets
[03:26] <mantiena> fabbione: but this one could be fixed just adding one line in /etc/udev/links.conf
[03:26] <fabbione> mantiena: no. it's not. read the bug carefully including the kernel patch.
[03:27] <mantiena> fabbione: Mandrake developers choosed simpler way ;)
[03:27] <wasabi> doko, JPackage convention.
[03:28] <wasabi> doko, there is supposed to be a symlink farm in /usr/lib/jvm that makes it easier to find... but I haven't stumbled onto the code that manages it yet, or the policy docs. I will be doing that soon.
[03:29] <mantiena> fabbione: users don't care which way developers choose for fixing not working firewire subsystem, they just want to work with firewire devices, for example with digital video cameras :)
[03:30] <fabbione> mantiena: i do, because a wrong fix can make the hell of maintainace afterwards
[03:31] <mantiena> fabbione: I understand, that you do ;)
[03:32] <mantiena> fabbione: could you tell me if this bug is planned to be fixed in hoary or only in hoary+1 ?
[03:33] <fabbione> mantiena: if you can provide me all the patches to fix major bugs, i can start spending time on normal ones.
[03:36] <mantiena> fabbione: sorry, I can't provide all patches, I just ask if hoary final version will have /dev/raw1394 or not ;)
[03:36] <ogra> mantiena: who knows
[03:36] <fabbione> if i will get to do it yes. otherwise no
[03:37] <zul> morning
[03:37] <ogra> mantiena: the fact that its in bugzilla and assigned to a (very good) dev should be enough....
[03:37] <fabbione> ogra :-)
[03:38] <ogra> ...no need to poke someone about it all day
[03:38] <ogra> fabbione, :)
[03:38] <zul> ogra: stop sucking up ;)
[03:40] <doko> wasabi: for the OOo2 build I have to add gij/gcj symlinks/scripts into the compat package. is this ok with you?
[03:42] <wasabi> if you can wait one second I can ask some redhat guy what the symlink is supposed to be.
[03:42] <wasabi> or find it on some jpackage list
[03:42] <wasabi> it's hte one thing I couldn't find in their policy
[03:42] <wasabi> I suspect it is simple supposed to be /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj
[03:43] <wasabi> I am |    | this close to having Ant working. ;)
[03:44] <wasabi> Yes. /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj looks right.
[03:44] <wasabi> I can add that if you want me too. I was going to do it anyways today.
[03:44] <doko> and /usr/lib/gcj-java-compat goes away?
[03:44] <wasabi> Yes.
[03:45] <wasabi> I won't get rid of that for a bit though. I've been using it. =/
[03:47] <doko> wasabi: please do so and upload the package (with the gij/gcj scripts similiar to the rmic script)
[03:47] <wasabi> uh oh.
[03:47] <wasabi> you need rmic?
[03:47] <doko> no, did I say so?
[03:47] <seb128> later
[03:48] <wasabi> Well you hinted at it?
[03:59] <Nafallo> fabbione: is mplayer-custom still used? IMO it does what -nogui should do :-P. just that -nogui should build on all platforms...
[04:15] <HiddenWolf> Is there any utility that can assist me from copying this working ubuntu setup to another computer?
[04:16] <wasabi> tar
[04:16] <wasabi> #ubuntu for that though
[04:17] <psy_> wasabi: or mount ;)
[04:20] <psy_> mount -t nfs ... ... 
[04:51] <Goshawk> i've upgraded the sources of a library and built a new library package, do you need a ubuntu sponsor to upload them=?
[04:52] <dholbach> Goshawk: for universe or for main?
[04:52] <Goshawk> the update library is libdirectfb that is in main at 0.9.20, i've done 0.9.22
[04:52] <Goshawk> and the other is a new package
[04:53] <Goshawk> linked at libdirectfb and it's called lib++dfb (never pacakged)
[04:53] <Goshawk> i've tried them
[04:53] <Goshawk> and they works
[04:53] <ogra> Goshawk: on all arches ?
[04:53] <Goshawk> no.. only mine
[04:53] <Goshawk> -__-
[04:53] <dholbach> Goshawk: ok... you'll have to ask in this channel or write a mail to the mailing list (ubuntu-devel@) - if you don't have really really good reasons for it, i'm not sure if it will be taken into account for hoary release
[04:53] <Goshawk> since i've only one pc ^__^
[04:54] <ogra> fb is very architecture critical....
[04:54] <Goshawk> yes... but they are needed for usplash
[04:54] <Goshawk> usplash is going to be base on them because they are going to be a standard
[04:55] <ogra> Goshawk, its unlikely they will get into main for hoary
[04:55] <Goshawk> ok...
[04:56] <Goshawk> one question.. do community packages became canonical packages (and added in main) ?
[04:56] <ogra> Goshawk, but i dont make the decisions for main, ask again if someone of the main team is around who can decide about it, or follow dholbachs advice to mail it
[04:57] <Goshawk> ok
[04:57] <ogra> Goshawk: i dont understand...
[04:58] <ogra> Goshawk: do you mean if universe packages can get lifted to main ?
[04:58] <Goshawk> yes
[04:58] <Goshawk> excuse my english
[04:58] <ogra> Goshawk: if required, yes
[04:58] <Goshawk> understood
[04:58] <ogra> Goshawk: mine isnt much better ;)
[05:04] <lamont> amu: ccache errors during the build should get a bug filed and assigned to me.
[05:06] <dholbach> hey lamont
[05:07] <jon1012> I just installed the hoary preview on one of my computers, and I works great, no problem seen for me :)
[05:07] <dholbach> lamont: i'm trying to tackle some of http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps, and try to figure out, why drscheme didn't get built on amd64?
[05:08] <lamont> dholbach: PaS update needed
[05:08] <dholbach> erm... PaS?
[05:09] <lamont> %drscheme: alpha i386 powerpc                                         # version 103 does not support other archs
[05:09] <lamont> packages-arch-specific
[05:09] <dholbach> OH
[05:09] <lamont> amd64 is specifically excluded, and should be added to the file - bug elmo
[05:09] <lamont> I assume that it does, in fact, build on amd64
[05:09] <lamont> >
[05:09] <lamont> ?
[05:10] <dholbach> stupid me... i thought i read amd64 in the architecture line
[05:10] <lamont> it's quite possible
[05:10] <dholbach> sorry for bugging, i'll check if it works again
[05:10] <ogra> lamont: do you have any idea how it can happen that someone is able to upload, recieves katie replys, but none of the mails get forwarded to hoary-changes ?
[05:11] <ogra> lamont, the packages build ine and seem to appear in the build logs as well as inthe archives
[05:11] <ogra> fine even
[05:11] <crimsun> (that someone being me)
[05:11] <ogra> yep
[05:14] <ogra> crimsun, i think we'll have to wait for elmo then....
[05:14] <crimsun> ogra: np, I'll just continue my Xorg march :-)
[05:14] <crimsun> 2 of 4 done
[05:14] <ogra> yup
[05:14] <ogra> WOW
[05:14] <crimsun> doing afterstep now
[05:15] <ogra> heh, wipe the dust away before you upload ;)
[05:15] <crimsun> :-)
[05:18] <dholbach> lamont: bye *wave*
[05:22] <zenwhen> wow the livecd has gotten REALLY slick
[05:23] <mxpxpod> dholbach: have you updated gconfmm to 2.10.0?
[05:25] <dholbach> mxpxpod: yes
[05:25] <mxpxpod> dholbach: awesome
[05:43] <smurfix> Rosetta bugs ("A system error occurred") go where?
[05:43] <ogra> malone ?
[05:43] <dholbach> #rosetta ? malone/product/rosetta?
[05:46] <Treenaks> mjg59: You know a bit about ACPI, right?
[05:46] <dholbach> ok... i'm out with my dog... see you later
[06:14] <mjg59> Treenaks: Yeah
[06:14] <mjg59> What's up?
[06:20] <Treenaks> mjg59: I have a Compaq Armada E500 here, with a kernel panic somewhere in ACPI when I press the volume up/down buttons
[06:20] <zul> heh sounds familar
[06:20] <Treenaks> mjg59: I'll get a dump of the panic tomorrow (when I have a serial cable)
[06:20] <mjg59> Treenaks: Oh, cool
[06:21] <Treenaks> cool? :)
[06:21] <Treenaks> the buttons are located in an annoying place, I crash the machine all the time :)
[06:22] <mjg59> That you have a trace, rather than it just falling over silently
[06:23] <Treenaks> ah ok :)
[06:25] <mdke> i am about to file a bug but thought maybe to ask here
[06:25] <mdke> i have a strange problem. When i disactivate and activate a network device, something goes screwy and gnome gets weird on me. I can't logout, gnome-terminal crashes before I can open it, evolution takes 5 minutes to load, and I can't open any system-tools. Can anyone help?
[06:39] <mxpxpod> tseng: ping
[06:39] <blueturtle> anyone here run Eclipse?
[06:45] <wasabi> me
[06:45] <wasabi> heh why do you need?
[06:45] <wasabi> actually #ubuntu might be better
[06:45] <blueturtle> ah, i'm just wondering about command line specifics
[06:45] <blueturtle> when i run /usr/local/eclipse/eclipse
[06:46] <blueturtle> it runs fine, but if i put that into a launcher, it fails
[06:46] <wasabi> mind msging me or talking in #ubuntu?
[06:46] <blueturtle> sure
[06:46] <blueturtle> sry, thought eclipse would fall under dev
[06:47] <wasabi> Well, this is more for developing Ubuntu itself.
[06:48] <blueturtle> ah ok
[06:58] <mako> jdub: hey dude, you can create the brazilian ubuntu mailing list?
[06:58] <crimsun> daniels: around?
[06:58] <crimsun> crap, he's probably asleep
[06:59] <dholbach> hi mako
[07:03] <robertj> any thoughts on making the livecd background during hardware detection another color besides blue?
[07:03] <mako> dholbach: hola
[07:04] <tritium> Hi mako 
[07:13] <HiddenWolf> will there ever be more than one ubuntu theme to choose from? :)
[07:15] <robertj> ok, on the live cd, and on my desktop as well, using the connect to server dialog creates the connection but won't connect, giving an error about not having a handler, but clicking it on the desktop works, does this go to bugzilla.gnome.org or bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org?
[07:17] <HiddenWolf> robertj: I'd file it in ubuntu, they can always take it upstream
[07:26] <mxpxpod> fabbione: ping
[07:28] <zul> mxpxpod: he's gone for the day
[07:28] <mxpxpod> ah, ok
[07:29] <mxpxpod> zul: thanks :)
[07:29] <mxpxpod> thom: ping
[07:29] <mxpxpod> zul: don't tell me he's gone as well :)
[07:29] <zul> mxpxpod: not sure im not the information booth ;)
[07:29] <mxpxpod> hehe
[07:30] <zul> and im gone now as well :)
[07:33] <mako> tritium: hey dude
[07:33] <tritium> :)
[07:33] <ogra> AAARGH
[07:34] <ogra> http://ubuntu-bp.sourceforge.net hoary-backports/main Packages 
[07:34] <ogra> its not even out yet
[07:38] <zenwhen> dredg, half of my packages refused to upgrade
[07:38] <zenwhen> I clean installed.
[07:39] <dredg> marvellous
[07:39] <ogra> heh
[07:39] <zenwhen> hoary's repos lack nothing I need.
[07:40] <robertj> ogra: speaking of unofficial packages, hula works nicely
[07:40] <ogra> robertj: which one did you try ? the one thats in revoew for universe ?
[07:41] <ogra> review even
[07:41] <stuNNed> ogra: lol
[07:42] <dredg> strongly disagree with all of it but hey
[07:43] <robertj> I googled for hula debs, found a site that said the person doing them was on hoary and testing on sid - deb http://www.eurobob.eclipse.co.uk/hula 
[07:44] <ogra> hoary-backports -- Stable, tested updated packages for Ubuntu Hoary (5.04)
[07:44] <ogra> that one really scares me
[07:45] <HiddenWolf> lol
[07:45] <mantiena> daniels: hi are you online ?
[07:45] <ogra> robertj: here are the packages that will soon get include in universe: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUNewPackages
[07:46] <robertj> what is rkae
[07:46] <robertj> err rake
[07:46] <ogra> no idea :)
[07:48] <dredg> heh
[07:48] <dredg> so anyone want to start a 'universe package a day' writeup? :)
[08:26] <thully> anyone here who does universe/multiverse work?  I had a few questions/requests...
[08:27] <pvh> thully: $ubuntu-motu
[08:27] <pvh> thully: s/$/#/
[08:31] <pvh> So this morning Evolution stopped working, apparently because I don't have libgtkhtml3.6-15 installed.
[08:31] <pvh> Unfortunately, there is no installation candidate for that library.
[08:34] <pvh> Ah, this fixed it:
[08:34] <pvh> sudo ln /usr/lib/libgtkhtml-3.6.so /usr/lib/libgtkhtml-3.6.so.15
[08:34] <dredg> looks old
[08:34] <dredg> my evolution depends on libgtkhtml3.6-18 (>= 3.6.0)
[08:34] <pvh> I just did an apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
[08:35] <pvh> dredg: That was my first thought too.
[08:37] <pvh> dredg: What Evolution do you have installed?
[08:37] <dredg> 2.2.0-0ubuntu3
[08:37] <pvh> Yeah, same here.
[08:38] <pvh> Do you have a /usr/lib/libgtkhtml-3.6.so.15 file?
[08:38] <dredg> niall@malkovich:~(0)$ ldd `which evolution`|grep gtkhtml
[08:38] <dredg>         libgtkhtml-3.6.so.18 => /usr/lib/libgtkhtml-3.6.so.18 (0xb7890000)
[08:39] <pvh> dredg: Ditto.
[08:39] <pvh> dredg: but I imagine it's one of the other modules in evolution.
[08:39] <dredg> yes i do
[08:39] <pvh> dredg: Would you be willing to rename it for a moment to see if you can duplicate the behaviour?
[08:40] <dredg> niall@malkovich:~(0)$ dpkg -S libgtkhtml-3.6.so.15
[08:40] <dredg> libgtkhtml3.6-15: /usr/lib/libgtkhtml-3.6.so.15.2.0
[08:40] <dredg> libgtkhtml3.6-15: /usr/lib/libgtkhtml-3.6.so.15
[08:41] <pvh> I haven't got it. :)
[08:41] <pvh> Nor are there installation candidates in any of the hoary repositories.
[08:42] <dredg> i've moved that lib elsewhere
[08:42] <dredg> evolution starts fine
[08:43] <pvh> Hmmm.
[08:43] <pvh> Curiouser and curiouser.
[08:43] <pvh> I'd like to file a good bug report for this one. Have you got any other ideas what might be going on?
[08:44] <dredg> tried an strace?
[08:44] <pvh> No, I'm not sure what that is or how to use it.
[08:44] <pvh> But I am reading the man page.
[08:51] <pvh> dredg: Well, I think whatever the problem is runs deeper than I have time to understand.
[08:51] <pvh> dredg: I'll just file it without a solution.
[08:52] <pvh> Thanks for your help.
[08:52] <dredg> np
[09:45] <dholbach> re
[10:30] <zul> +-
[10:35] <JStrike> Not a totally #ubuntu-devel appropriate question, but nevertheless. gnome-app-install dies on startup complaining that "ValueError: unknown locale: en_ZA". Is this a bug in gnome-app-install or in python?
[10:43] <GheRivero> res
[10:46] <mdz> JStrike: neither; it typically means that your locale hasn't been generated.  make sure you have language-pack-en installed
[10:47] <kent> hmm, is not update-manager in rosetta?
[10:48] <JStrike> mdz : Thanks
[10:49] <mooch> hummm
[10:49] <mooch> the new gnome does not show focus on a maximized window when cycling with alt-tab
[10:50] <mooch> the non-maxied windows show a black line around the windows
[10:50] <mooch> the maxied one does not
[11:29] <robertj> mdz: the bug I talked to you about yesterday and you were unable to duplicate was duplicated by mean today on the LiveCD and by a rawhide user in #gnome, it's filed at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=170242
[11:30] <robertj> Not an ubuntu thing, but I'm very dissapointed for not catching this earlier. Apparently if you have keys setup for the remote host it doesn't b0rk. 
[11:33] <Riddell> how does gnome-volume-manager mount things when it isn't root?
[11:33] <tseng> Riddell: it uses pmount
[11:33] <tseng> Riddell: which you probably haev a manpage for, its an suid mount wrapper
[11:34] <Riddell> tseng: yep, thanks
[11:34] <seb128> lamont: here ?
[11:34] <tseng> np
[11:37] <psy_> bye
[11:52] <ogra> seb128: ping
[11:53] <seb128> pong
[11:53] <ogra> pitti gave me #6003, do you still see this behavior ?
[11:53] <ogra> 6002 even
[11:56] <seb128> ogra: lemme try
[12:00] <seb128> ogra: seems to work
[12:01] <ogra> great, here too
[12:01] <ogra> seb128, so i'll ask thom tomorrow, and if he's fine too, i'll close it, thanks for testing :)
[12:01] <seb128> np