Burgundaviathe yelp bug makes the docs almost unreadable, IMHO12:02
Burgundaviawhat if we don't get it fixed?12:02
froudPlain HTML12:02
froudAny Web Browser Compatible12:02
Burgundaviasounds good12:02
Burgundaviaare we going to ship HTML anyway?12:02
MithrandirBurgundavia: do you have a real help page where the yelp problem shows?12:02
enricoOk.  For translation we're waiting for feedback from the translation team12:03
Mithrandir(so I don't have to browse around for it)12:03
BurgundaviaMithrandir: install quickguide12:03
enricoBurgundavia: sure: in /usr/share/doc/<package>12:03
enricoMithrandir: package is ubuntu-quickguide12:03
trickieenrico, i have also been looking into rebuilding xml from .po files, i'll keep ya psoted12:04
Burgundavialook at  getting started --> login in the quickguide12:04
BurgundaviaMithrandir: users and groups and ubuntu update manager should not be a title like that12:04
enricotrickie: so good!  Thanks!12:04
trickieenrico, np at all!12:04
enricoI think we have a clear schedule about releasing Hoary, now12:05
froudone more thing12:05
enricofroud: sure12:05
froudtrickie and I discussed BitTorrent12:05
MithrandirBurgundavia: it's in the about ubuntu under other documentation, right?12:06
BurgundaviaMithrandir: yep12:06
froudenrico: we need to finish it12:06
enricofroud: ok12:06
froudproblem is none of     us know how to get started with using it12:07
trickiei have used it12:07
Burgundaviawhat is important about bittorrent, if I understand, is that the launcher in the menu is for sharing stuff out12:07
froudso I guess niether will users12:07
froudwhen you fist start it you need to specify a file12:07
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froudand that's where I got stuck12:08
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trickiefroud, a torrent file?12:08
frouddunno I guess12:08
trickiei can write this bit12:08
Burgundaviatrickie: no, it is looking for some sort of meta file to share stuff out I think12:08
froudand add a screencapt12:09
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enricoHow about we just ask on #ubuntu-users for people using BitTorrent?12:09
trickieBurgundavia, really? i thought it was a client program12:09
Burgundaviabitorrent is both12:09
=== froud is now as confused as ever
BurgundaviaI just checked. It will take just a straight torrent12:09
BurgundaviaI stand corrected12:09
mdzenrico: you need something from me?12:10
Burgundaviabut the users are almost never going to actually use it that way12:10
enricofroud: BitTorrent is good for downlading.  It speeds things up by sharing what you downloaded already, so that you find many peoplet o download from12:10
Burgundaviamostly they will click on links within their browsers, or double click on files in nautilus12:10
enricomdz: yesterday you asked if Yelp needs fixing: it doesn12:10
froudOk, what ever so long as somebody can write it cooorrectly12:10
enricomdz: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17007412:11
mdzenrico: ok, do you have a list?12:11
enricomdz: Burgundavia will post more info about htat bug12:11
enricomdz: then there's the "show our docs in the front" part that you said jdub is working on12:11
trickieBurgundavia, you wanna do the torrent app?12:11
trickieBurgundavia, i just use it like you have just tested12:12
BurgundaviaI can do that12:12
froudBurgundavia: thanks12:12
trickieBurgundavia, i didn't know it was integrated into nautilus etc etc12:12
trickieBurgundavia, excellent!12:12
Burgundaviashould be12:12
Burgundaviaif it isn't, it is a bug12:12
froudenrico: that should be all for release requirements12:13
enricofroud: good, I was about to say the same12:13
enricoThird and last point12:13
enrico.oO(I fear)12:13
enricopost Hoary!12:13
MithrandirBurgundavia: ok, I understand what the bug is now -- for some reason, I had two quick guides registered and the first was _really_ broken, so it took me a bit of time12:13
BurgundaviaMithrandir: hmm12:13
BurgundaviaI spewed my mind12:14
Burgundavianow I want to hear other peoples ideas12:14
froudenrico: to yelp or not to yelp12:14
enricoDiscussing about post-hoary now is tricky12:14
enricothat is, we risk talking forever12:14
froudDiscussion with Riddell 12:14
Burgundaviathat is why we discussed it last12:14
froudon #kubuntu12:14
froudkde team would also like docs12:15
enricoHi Riddell !12:15
froudenrico: Riddell likes Quick Guide12:15
=== Riddell ports yelp to KDE
ograquick guide is great :)12:15
ograopposite to FAQ which is horrible12:15
froudRiddell: would also like doc on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InstallingKDE12:16
ogra(but thats my personal opinion)12:16
Riddellif we could get that guide with KDE info in it that would be great, marked so that you can convert to HTML with KDE paragraphs or with gnome ones12:16
Burgundaviaogra: that is faqguide from ubuntuguide.org?12:16
enricoOh, now that I think about it12:16
ograBurgundavia: which is as wrong as anything can be, yes12:16
enricoWe also have to consider if we want the FAQGuide in Hoary or not12:16
Burgundaviaogra: good idea, but implementation12:16
enricoIt's got two problems at least:12:17
enrico1) It covers warty12:17
enrico2) It's not in sync with what's on ubuntuguide.org12:17
froudenrico: it would need concerted effort of a week12:17
BurgundaviaI would add 3. not in the ubuntu style12:17
ograenrico: its not ubuntu at all12:17
froudenrico: for KDE do you think we can do K Quick Guide?12:17
Burgundaviaie, use the default apps, the graphical ones, etc.12:17
enricoI tried to reach Chua but he's not replying at the moment12:18
Riddellfroud: how do you mean?12:18
ograits originated from a redhat guide with very less changes12:18
enricoHe must be busy.  I hope nothing bad happened to him12:18
ograand will need a LOT of changes12:18
froudPost hoary we should develop verion of quick guide for kde12:18
enricoogra: ??12:18
Burgundaviahave they stablised on apps for kbuntu hoary+112:18
enricoogra: the quickguide.org originated mainly from the wiki afaik12:19
froudBurgundavia: doesnt matter12:19
trickiefroud, +112:19
=== froud nods at trickie
BurgundaviaI don't use kde, but I don't see why we should exclude them12:19
ograenrico: telling a user to edit xorg.conf without telling him that he cant use any automated system tool that touches the file anymore is very bad manner12:19
RiddellBurgundavia: we havn't stabalised on apps for hoary yet, but will do this week12:19
enricoSo, I'm considering proposing not to package the faqguide in Hoary after all12:19
Burgundaviaogra: and not telling them about the graphical tool that does the job too12:20
ograthere are special steps to take for such an edit12:20
Burgundaviaenrico: +112:20
enricoogra: did you send a mail to Chua telling thim a better way for it?12:20
trickieenrico, +112:20
ograenrico: several, he always told me he would correct it, he never did12:20
ograthat was at the beginning or warty12:20
Burgundaviaok, but I feel there is a niche there that we should fill12:20
enricoogra: remember he had *Dengue fever*12:21
=== froud wonders if this can be done in time for hoary
ograits good as an advanced guide for people who know what they are doing12:21
=== froud knows ploves took some tim eto do it
enricoogra: that's quite a bad one to have.  It got him stuck quite severely12:21
Burgundaviaas ubuntuguide.org and the FAQ forums aren't giving good advice12:21
ograenrico: since when, we talked oin oct 2004 till nov 200412:21
enricoogra: after the conf in Matar12:22
ograenrico: so we talked long before....12:22
enricoHe was fine after the Tsunami and for new Year's Day12:22
enricohe got sick after that12:22
Burgundaviaso can we take the faqguide and ubuntuize it? I would be happy to lead this effort12:22
froudenrico: FAQ GUIDE should be in Docbook FAQ format12:23
enricoBurgundavia: I tried to sync with Chua to do that together12:23
ograenrico: i was doing a lot of support in #ubuntu at this time and was tired of fixing the broken systems that resulted from following the guide12:23
enricoogra: ok12:23
ograenrico: bob2 is still doing this support job, you guys should get him in the process12:23
froudBurgundavia: can you do it in <!DOCTYPE faq12:24
Burgundaviafroud: I can learn12:24
enricoogra: support!12:24
enricoogra: I didn't know there was someone doing support especially12:24
enricoogra: the docteam should really be in touch with people doing support12:24
ograenrico: i have the choice betwenn support and devel.... :) i moved on :)12:24
ograbut will go into support again after release..... to fill the gap :)12:25
=== froud is concerned to stay desktop neutral in docs
Burgundaviafroud: hard to do, when more and more of what you want to show people is gui-based12:26
enricoogra: it's imperative to have support in touch with docteam12:26
froudI would like to know what people think of staying neutral12:26
enricodocteam can help support (such has, with relevant FAQs) and support helps the docteam (for example, providing the list of relevan questions)12:26
ograenrico: i know, thats why i attend this meeting ;)12:26
trickiefroud, it would be great, but i do not know exactly how we would do it12:26
froudTh eproblem is the incompatability between khelpcenter and yelp12:27
enricowhat format does khelpcenter eat?12:27
froudif we use things like ghelp:foo we get locked to yelp12:27
trickiefroud, oh, you are talking about doc format? not screenshots etc12:27
enricofroud: ok12:28
froudI dont care about hthe presentation layers12:28
froudthey dont exist12:28
froudso long at the src can be used cross desktop I am happy12:28
=== enrico had a long day and is quite tired
Burgundaviaso to round up this part:12:29
Burgundavia1. talk to support people12:29
trickieI really like html based docs, i can use them anywhere, including when i am not using a linux desktop at all12:29
Burgundavia2. desktop neutral docs12:29
Burgundavia3. ubuntuize faqguide, with screenshots12:29
froud4. K Quick Guide12:30
BurgundaviaOne further thing, we should have a better web presence for these docs12:30
froudHow do people feel about LearnLinux with Ubuntu12:30
trickiefroud, i like it12:30
froudThe src is there12:30
trickie5. We need a trnaslation support policy too12:31
froudI have a drop in my local and am customizing12:31
draskofroud, I am interested12:31
froudare people ok if I commit the src at some point12:31
Lizive already started that course12:31
froudLiz: cool12:31
froudI havked the code12:32
froudI have forked the code12:32
froudI also have a fork for a glossary database12:32
Burgundaviacool idea12:32
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jeffschit sounds like a great idea12:32
froudthis is a fork from TLDP Linux Dictionary12:33
froudboth docs are under CC-BY-SA 2.012:33
froudwe have a dual license policy12:33
froudanyone see any problems here12:33
Burgundaviaaside from the cc and gfdl are not compatible?12:34
Burgundaviawe can make an exception for this stuff12:34
froudmako: ping12:35
enricothe original idea ws to make a web alias12:35
froudenrico: do you still want it that way?12:36
enricobut that hasn't been made yet12:36
froudenrico: leanlinux needs some work to become ubuntu12:36
froudbut the base is debain12:36
enricowe basically have to decide what to put into the web alias site12:37
froudhow do you mean12:37
trickieenrico, 'web alias site', what is that?12:37
enricofroud: the web alias pointing at mako's pages, which does not exist yet, but was in Mako's and Elmo's 12:38
enricoIt was ot mako's and mine intentions12:38
froudenrico: you lostme 12:39
enricofroud: that's because I'm barely awake now12:39
enricoyou were asking about the web presence 12:39
froudhey dude its 1:30 am and I now hav emy second wind12:39
enricoI told the original way was to make a nice web alias pointing at mkako's wbespace12:39
froudr we speaking about the same stuff here12:39
Burgundaviawhy don't we meet again and discuss this12:39
trickieBurgundavia, +112:40
Burgundaviawe have some stuff decided12:40
enricowouldn't be a bad idea12:40
enricoright.  We have everything for releasing Hoary12:40
jeffschit is very sunny here12:40
enricoI do have one concern though12:40
enricothat is:12:40
enricoWe now picked up rhythm by writing in the QuickGuide.  Now that's almost finished: how do we keep up teh rhythm?12:40
jeffschwhat is next thing that needs to be complete?12:41
trickieI would like to start getting into the Admin guide12:41
froudcontinue with either FAQ, ADMIN or USER12:41
froudand or LearnLinux12:41
trickieand also working with enrico to get translations working12:41
enricoi'd also like to lay our hands on some upstream documentation12:41
froudwe have problems in that area12:42
jeffschand is it too early to think about a style guide?12:42
enricoLike, improbing the Gnome User Manual and other existnig docu12:42
enricobut yes, that'd change our process in sme way12:42
froudupstream is scattered far and wide12:42
froudtoday I wante dto fix stuff in synaptic12:42
froudwhich repos to patch against12:43
froudmako points to mvo12:43
frouddoes mvo have own snapshot12:43
froudor do I go to top src12:43
froudthis question arises time and again12:44
froudwhich GNOME User Manual to Update12:44
froudthe one in gnome.org12:44
froudor the one in some ubuntu repos12:45
froudlord knows which one12:45
froudworking at the fringes changes our focus12:45
froudaway from ubuntu-doc12:45
trickieso could we say our immediate concerns are FAQ, ADMIN, USER and LearnLinux?12:45
enricoFAQ I'd like to coordinate with Chua before doing stuff12:46
trickienot necessarily in that order12:46
froudI go +1 on the list in http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProjects12:46
froudand if people want LearnLinux I will add it12:46
enricoPeple, I can't make it12:46
enricoIt's been the 5th time I deleted garbage from the input line12:47
trickie+1` me too12:47
froudanyone else agree12:47
jeffschit is too sunny and warm here: I must go outside12:47
froudenrico: go sleep12:47
enricogarbage that came in because I was typing half-asleep, or just fell asleep before taking one finger off a key12:47
enricoi'll pick up the logs tomorrow and make the minuites12:48
trickieok... well lets call it quits for now12:48
froudBurgundavia: r u +112:48
froudjeffsch: and you12:48
froudLiz: and you12:48
enricoI'd say thank you everyoen for attending, if you want to go on, I'll make the minutes of what I'll find in the logs12:49
froudOk thanks enrico 12:49
ograenrico: sleep well12:49
smhi all - can I ask one other thing, what's the preferred new naming scheme for the icon files in the wiki ? any constraints on those names which must be honoured ?12:49
trickieenrico, sllep well!12:49
enricoit's been a really good meeting12:49
MithrandirI think somebody owes me beer.12:49
Liznite enrico12:49
MithrandirI've found and fixed the yelp bug.12:49
=== enrico hands Mithrandir a beer
=== enrico hands Mithrandir LOTS of beers
trickieMithrandir, awesome!12:50
=== froud passes Mithrandir a beer
ograMithrandir: youre the master 12:50
draskoenrico, good nigh12:50
enricodo please get back to sm about the naming scheme for icons12:50
enricohe made images work in Moin! 12:50
=== froud kicks enrico into bed
enriconow he just needs to know how to name them12:51
=== enrico rolls over to the bed
Mithrandirchange /usr/share/xml/gnome/xslt/docbook/html/db2html-xref.xsl ; <xsl:apply-templates select="key('idkey', $endterm)" /> to <xsl:value-of select="key('idkey', $endterm)" />12:51
enricoPeople, good night!12:51
smsimplest think is IconBookmarksClosed -> BookmarksClosed.png, I'll do that then12:51
Mithrandirdid I tell you I don't like XSLT? (:12:51
jeffschgood night enrico12:51
froudMithrandir: did you patch it12:51
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Mithrandirif somebody can verify that it DTRT for them, I'd appreciate it.12:51
Mithrandirfroud: it seems to do the right thing for me, but I'd like verification before uploading a fix12:52
trickieMithrandir, im not on my hoary box... sorry12:52
Mithrandirfroud: can you make the change and verify that it works for you?12:53
MithrandirBurgundavia: or you?12:53
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froudyep hang ten12:53
trickiewell ladies and gentlemen, unless someone wants to talk more doc with me, i must bid a good day/night12:53
YokoZarI just have something12:53
YokoZarOk, I'm writing a scrollkeeper OMF file to put the Wine documentation in a standard place so it's viewable from the help menu.  The trouble is I'm having trouble figuring out what category to place it in from the list at ( /usr/share/scrollkeeper/Templates/C/scrollkeeper_cl.xml ) - is it possible to add an entry to that list, or is there one I should pick from?12:53
YokoZarSince I heard there's a doc meeting here...perhaps a doc team member can point me in the right direction?12:54
trickieYokoZar, Sorry i have never seen or contemplated an OMF file in my life. think enrico (or Sean?) has been doing that for us12:55
=== Liz has no idea about OMF at all
YokoZarWell, how about this question then: when I go to the help menu and click applications, where should the Wine documentation show up?12:56
YokoZar(this is what I'm configuring in the OMF file, I think)12:57
trickiei am not sure, but i would have thought it would have been in system or something and not applications?12:57
trickieYokoZar, really though, i have no idea12:58
YokoZarHmm, ok.  I'll just put it alongside the Evolution User guide and deal with it later when we have a better idea about how the Wine interface will look to the user12:58
froudMithrandir: I can confirm that it works12:58
=== froud hands Mithrandir a case of beer
Mithrandirfroud: rock!12:59
froudMithrandir: thanks a million01:00
Mithrandircan somebody who has a gnome bugzilla account submit http://err.no/patches/yelp_handle_endterm_db2html-xref.xsl.diff as a patch for it?01:00
=== ogra opens the gate and waves in the beertruck for Mithrandir
Mithrandirit's so much easier to give people a patch than to say "please change foo in bar"01:00
Mithrandirogra: trying to drown me? :)01:00
ograMithrandir: just put it in the storage ;)01:01
Mithrandirmy fridge is actually still quite full after all the beer I brought home after FOSDEM.01:01
mdkeis the doc meeting still active?01:01
Mithrandirbut, it's 0100 here now, so I'm off to bed.01:01
=== Liz just found out what OMF is ..heh
Liznite Mithrandir01:01
Lizim gonna go enjoy the sunshine here01:01
mdkeguess not huh01:02
trickiemdke, just sorta stopped being a meeting01:02
trickiebut i think people are around01:02
mdkei suck01:02
mdkesomeone will make up minutes i guess?01:03
trickiemdke, yep01:03
trickiewell i am outta here, see ya all!01:03
froudMithrandir:  done http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17007401:06
froudwell team good noght01:06
mdkenight mate01:06
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