[12:02] the yelp bug makes the docs almost unreadable, IMHO [12:02] Right. [12:02] what if we don't get it fixed? [12:02] Plain HTML [12:02] :-) [12:02] agreed [12:02] Any Web Browser Compatible [12:02] sounds good [12:02] are we going to ship HTML anyway? [12:02] Burgundavia: do you have a real help page where the yelp problem shows? [12:03] Ok. For translation we're waiting for feedback from the translation team [12:03] (so I don't have to browse around for it) [12:03] Mithrandir: install quickguide [12:03] Burgundavia: sure: in /usr/share/doc/ [12:03] Mithrandir: package is ubuntu-quickguide [12:04] enrico, i have also been looking into rebuilding xml from .po files, i'll keep ya psoted [12:04] posted [12:04] look at getting started --> login in the quickguide [12:04] Mithrandir: users and groups and ubuntu update manager should not be a title like that [12:04] trickie: so good! Thanks! [12:04] enrico, np at all! [12:05] I think we have a clear schedule about releasing Hoary, now [12:05] one more thing [12:05] froud: sure [12:05] trickie and I discussed BitTorrent [12:06] Burgundavia: it's in the about ubuntu under other documentation, right? [12:06] Mithrandir: yep [12:06] enrico: we need to finish it [12:06] http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/status/qg-report.html [12:06] froud: ok [12:07] problem is none of us know how to get started with using it [12:07] i have used it [12:07] what is important about bittorrent, if I understand, is that the launcher in the menu is for sharing stuff out [12:07] so I guess niether will users [12:07] when you fist start it you need to specify a file === evarlast [~ejrw@pcp02588190pcs.shlb1201.mi.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [12:08] and that's where I got stuck === inform_bureau [~info@kds8-085.ptt.yu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:08] froud, a torrent file? [12:08] dunno I guess [12:08] i can write this bit [12:08] trickie: no, it is looking for some sort of meta file to share stuff out I think [12:09] and add a screencapt === inform_bureau [~info@kds8-085.ptt.yu] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [12:09] How about we just ask on #ubuntu-users for people using BitTorrent? [12:09] Burgundavia, really? i thought it was a client program [12:09] bitorrent is both === froud is now as confused as ever [12:09] I just checked. It will take just a straight torrent [12:09] I stand corrected [12:10] enrico: you need something from me? [12:10] but the users are almost never going to actually use it that way [12:10] froud: BitTorrent is good for downlading. It speeds things up by sharing what you downloaded already, so that you find many peoplet o download from [12:10] mostly they will click on links within their browsers, or double click on files in nautilus [12:10] mdz: yesterday you asked if Yelp needs fixing: it doesn [12:10] does [12:10] Ok, what ever so long as somebody can write it cooorrectly [12:11] mdz: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=170074 [12:11] enrico: ok, do you have a list? [12:11] mdz: Burgundavia will post more info about htat bug [12:11] mdz: then there's the "show our docs in the front" part that you said jdub is working on [12:11] Burgundavia, you wanna do the torrent app? [12:12] Burgundavia, i just use it like you have just tested [12:12] ok [12:12] I can do that [12:12] Burgundavia: thanks [12:12] Burgundavia, i didn't know it was integrated into nautilus etc etc [12:12] Burgundavia, excellent! [12:12] should be [12:12] if it isn't, it is a bug [12:13] enrico: that should be all for release requirements [12:13] froud: good, I was about to say the same [12:13] Third and last point [12:13] .oO(I fear) [12:13] post Hoary! [12:13] Burgundavia: ok, I understand what the bug is now -- for some reason, I had two quick guides registered and the first was _really_ broken, so it took me a bit of time [12:13] Mithrandir: hmm [12:14] I spewed my mind [12:14] now I want to hear other peoples ideas [12:14] enrico: to yelp or not to yelp [12:14] Discussing about post-hoary now is tricky [12:14] that is, we risk talking forever [12:14] Discussion with Riddell [12:14] that is why we discussed it last [12:14] on #kubuntu [12:15] hello [12:15] kde team would also like docs [12:15] Hi Riddell ! [12:15] enrico: Riddell likes Quick Guide === Riddell ports yelp to KDE [12:15] quick guide is great :) [12:15] opposite to FAQ which is horrible [12:16] Riddell: would also like doc on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InstallingKDE [12:16] (but thats my personal opinion) [12:16] if we could get that guide with KDE info in it that would be great, marked so that you can convert to HTML with KDE paragraphs or with gnome ones [12:16] ogra: that is faqguide from ubuntuguide.org? [12:16] Oh, now that I think about it [12:16] Burgundavia: which is as wrong as anything can be, yes [12:16] We also have to consider if we want the FAQGuide in Hoary or not [12:16] ogra: good idea, but implementation [12:17] s/but/bad [12:17] It's got two problems at least: [12:17] 1) It covers warty [12:17] 2) It's not in sync with what's on ubuntuguide.org [12:17] enrico: it would need concerted effort of a week [12:17] I would add 3. not in the ubuntu style [12:17] enrico: its not ubuntu at all [12:17] enrico: for KDE do you think we can do K Quick Guide? [12:17] ie, use the default apps, the graphical ones, etc. [12:18] I tried to reach Chua but he's not replying at the moment [12:18] froud: how do you mean? [12:18] its originated from a redhat guide with very less changes [12:18] He must be busy. I hope nothing bad happened to him [12:18] and will need a LOT of changes [12:18] Post hoary we should develop verion of quick guide for kde [12:18] ogra: ?? [12:18] have they stablised on apps for kbuntu hoary+1 [12:18] ? [12:19] ogra: the quickguide.org originated mainly from the wiki afaik [12:19] Burgundavia: doesnt matter [12:19] froud, +1 === froud nods at trickie [12:19] I don't use kde, but I don't see why we should exclude them [12:19] enrico: telling a user to edit xorg.conf without telling him that he cant use any automated system tool that touches the file anymore is very bad manner [12:19] Burgundavia: we havn't stabalised on apps for hoary yet, but will do this week [12:19] So, I'm considering proposing not to package the faqguide in Hoary after all [12:20] ogra: and not telling them about the graphical tool that does the job too [12:20] there are special steps to take for such an edit [12:20] Burgundavia+++ [12:20] enrico: +1 [12:20] ogra: did you send a mail to Chua telling thim a better way for it? [12:20] enrico, +1 [12:20] enrico: several, he always told me he would correct it, he never did [12:20] that was at the beginning or warty [12:20] ok, but I feel there is a niche there that we should fill [12:21] ogra: remember he had *Dengue fever* === froud wonders if this can be done in time for hoary [12:21] its good as an advanced guide for people who know what they are doing === froud knows ploves took some tim eto do it [12:21] ogra: that's quite a bad one to have. It got him stuck quite severely [12:21] as ubuntuguide.org and the FAQ forums aren't giving good advice [12:21] enrico: since when, we talked oin oct 2004 till nov 2004 [12:22] ogra: after the conf in Matar [12:22] enrico: so we talked long before.... [12:22] He was fine after the Tsunami and for new Year's Day [12:22] he got sick after that [12:22] so can we take the faqguide and ubuntuize it? I would be happy to lead this effort [12:23] enrico: FAQ GUIDE should be in Docbook FAQ format [12:23] Burgundavia: I tried to sync with Chua to do that together [12:23] enrico: i was doing a lot of support in #ubuntu at this time and was tired of fixing the broken systems that resulted from following the guide [12:23] ogra: ok [12:23] enrico: bob2 is still doing this support job, you guys should get him in the process [12:24] Burgundavia: can you do it in froud: I can learn [12:24] ogra: support! [12:24] yay [12:24] +1 [12:24] ogra: I didn't know there was someone doing support especially [12:24] ogra: the docteam should really be in touch with people doing support [12:24] enrico: i have the choice betwenn support and devel.... :) i moved on :) [12:25] but will go into support again after release..... to fill the gap :) === froud is concerned to stay desktop neutral in docs [12:26] froud: hard to do, when more and more of what you want to show people is gui-based [12:26] ogra: it's imperative to have support in touch with docteam [12:26] I would like to know what people think of staying neutral [12:26] neutral [12:26] docteam can help support (such has, with relevant FAQs) and support helps the docteam (for example, providing the list of relevan questions) [12:26] enrico: i know, thats why i attend this meeting ;) [12:26] froud, it would be great, but i do not know exactly how we would do it [12:27] Th eproblem is the incompatability between khelpcenter and yelp [12:27] what format does khelpcenter eat? [12:27] if we use things like ghelp:foo we get locked to yelp [12:27] html [12:27] xhtml [12:27] froud, oh, you are talking about doc format? not screenshots etc [12:27] man [12:28] froud: ok [12:28] yes [12:28] I dont care about hthe presentation layers [12:28] they dont exist [12:28] so long at the src can be used cross desktop I am happy === enrico had a long day and is quite tired [12:29] so to round up this part: [12:29] 1. talk to support people [12:29] I really like html based docs, i can use them anywhere, including when i am not using a linux desktop at all [12:29] 2. desktop neutral docs [12:29] 3. ubuntuize faqguide, with screenshots [12:30] 4. K Quick Guide [12:30] One further thing, we should have a better web presence for these docs [12:30] How do people feel about LearnLinux with Ubuntu [12:30] froud, i like it [12:30] http://learnlinux.tsf.org.za/ [12:30] The src is there [12:31] 5. We need a trnaslation support policy too [12:31] I have a drop in my local and am customizing [12:31] froud, I am interested [12:31] are people ok if I commit the src at some point [12:31] ive already started that course [12:31] Liz: cool [12:32] I havked the code [12:32] I have forked the code [12:32] I also have a fork for a glossary database [12:32] cool idea === Alessio [~Alessio@host113-4.pool8251.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:32] it sounds like a great idea [12:33] http://computerdictionary.tsf.org.za/ [12:33] this is a fork from TLDP Linux Dictionary [12:33] both docs are under CC-BY-SA 2.0 [12:33] we have a dual license policy [12:33] anyone see any problems here [12:34] ? [12:34] aside from the cc and gfdl are not compatible? [12:34] http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamLicense [12:34] we can make an exception for this stuff [12:35] mako: ping [12:35] the original idea ws to make a web alias [12:35] yes [12:36] enrico: do you still want it that way? [12:36] but that hasn't been made yet [12:36] enrico: leanlinux needs some work to become ubuntu [12:36] but the base is debain [12:36] debian [12:37] we basically have to decide what to put into the web alias site [12:37] how do you mean [12:37] enrico, 'web alias site', what is that? [12:38] froud: the web alias pointing at mako's pages, which does not exist yet, but was in Mako's and Elmo's [12:38] sotty: [12:38] It was ot mako's and mine intentions [12:39] enrico: you lostme [12:39] froud: that's because I'm barely awake now [12:39] you were asking about the web presence [12:39] hey dude its 1:30 am and I now hav emy second wind [12:39] I told the original way was to make a nice web alias pointing at mkako's wbespace [12:39] r we speaking about the same stuff here [12:39] why don't we meet again and discuss this [12:40] Burgundavia, +1 [12:40] we have some stuff decided [12:40] wouldn't be a bad idea [12:40] right. We have everything for releasing Hoary [12:40] it is very sunny here [12:40] I do have one concern though [12:40] that is: [12:40] We now picked up rhythm by writing in the QuickGuide. Now that's almost finished: how do we keep up teh rhythm? [12:41] what is next thing that needs to be complete? [12:41] I would like to start getting into the Admin guide [12:41] continue with either FAQ, ADMIN or USER [12:41] and or LearnLinux [12:41] and also working with enrico to get translations working [12:41] i'd also like to lay our hands on some upstream documentation [12:42] we have problems in that area [12:42] and is it too early to think about a style guide? [12:42] Like, improbing the Gnome User Manual and other existnig docu [12:42] but yes, that'd change our process in sme way [12:42] upstream is scattered far and wide [12:42] today I wante dto fix stuff in synaptic [12:43] which repos to patch against [12:43] mako points to mvo [12:43] does mvo have own snapshot [12:43] or do I go to top src [12:44] https://oops.kerneljanitors.org/repos/synaptic/trunk/help/C/ [12:44] this question arises time and again [12:44] which GNOME User Manual to Update [12:44] the one in gnome.org [12:45] or the one in some ubuntu repos [12:45] lord knows which one [12:45] working at the fringes changes our focus [12:45] away from ubuntu-doc [12:45] so could we say our immediate concerns are FAQ, ADMIN, USER and LearnLinux? [12:46] FAQ I'd like to coordinate with Chua before doing stuff [12:46] not necessarily in that order [12:46] I go +1 on the list in http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProjects [12:46] and if people want LearnLinux I will add it [12:46] Peple, I can't make it [12:47] yes [12:47] It's been the 5th time I deleted garbage from the input line [12:47] +1` me too [12:47] anyone else agree [12:47] it is too sunny and warm here: I must go outside [12:47] enrico: go sleep [12:47] garbage that came in because I was typing half-asleep, or just fell asleep before taking one finger off a key [12:48] i'll pick up the logs tomorrow and make the minuites [12:48] ok [12:48] ok... well lets call it quits for now [12:48] Burgundavia: r u +1 [12:48] jeffsch: and you [12:48] Liz: and you [12:48] +1 [12:49] I'd say thank you everyoen for attending, if you want to go on, I'll make the minutes of what I'll find in the logs [12:49] Ok thanks enrico [12:49] enrico: sleep well [12:49] hi all - can I ask one other thing, what's the preferred new naming scheme for the icon files in the wiki ? any constraints on those names which must be honoured ? [12:49] enrico, sllep well! [12:49] it's been a really good meeting [12:49] sleep [12:49] I think somebody owes me beer. [12:49] nite enrico [12:49] I've found and fixed the yelp bug. === enrico hands Mithrandir a beer === enrico hands Mithrandir LOTS of beers [12:50] Mithrandir, awesome! === froud passes Mithrandir a beer [12:50] Mithrandir: youre the master [12:50] enrico, good nigh [12:50] do please get back to sm about the naming scheme for icons [12:50] yep [12:50] =1 [12:50] he made images work in Moin! [12:50] +1 === froud kicks enrico into bed [12:51] now he just needs to know how to name them === enrico rolls over to the bed [12:51] change /usr/share/xml/gnome/xslt/docbook/html/db2html-xref.xsl ; to [12:51] People, good night! [12:51] simplest think is IconBookmarksClosed -> BookmarksClosed.png, I'll do that then [12:51] did I tell you I don't like XSLT? (: [12:51] good night enrico [12:51] Mithrandir: did you patch it === jeffsch [~jeffsch@fatwire-203-183.uniserve.ca] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["gotta] [12:51] if somebody can verify that it DTRT for them, I'd appreciate it. [12:52] froud: it seems to do the right thing for me, but I'd like verification before uploading a fix [12:52] ok [12:52] Mithrandir, im not on my hoary box... sorry [12:53] froud: can you make the change and verify that it works for you? [12:53] Burgundavia: or you? === YokoZar [~scott@d160-104-la-rue-2.ucdavis.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:53] yep hang ten [12:53] well ladies and gentlemen, unless someone wants to talk more doc with me, i must bid a good day/night [12:53] wait [12:53] I just have something [12:53] Ok, I'm writing a scrollkeeper OMF file to put the Wine documentation in a standard place so it's viewable from the help menu. The trouble is I'm having trouble figuring out what category to place it in from the list at ( /usr/share/scrollkeeper/Templates/C/scrollkeeper_cl.xml ) - is it possible to add an entry to that list, or is there one I should pick from? [12:54] Since I heard there's a doc meeting here...perhaps a doc team member can point me in the right direction? [12:55] YokoZar, Sorry i have never seen or contemplated an OMF file in my life. think enrico (or Sean?) has been doing that for us === Liz has no idea about OMF at all [12:56] Well, how about this question then: when I go to the help menu and click applications, where should the Wine documentation show up? [12:57] (this is what I'm configuring in the OMF file, I think) [12:57] i am not sure, but i would have thought it would have been in system or something and not applications? [12:58] YokoZar, really though, i have no idea [12:58] Hmm, ok. I'll just put it alongside the Evolution User guide and deal with it later when we have a better idea about how the Wine interface will look to the user [12:58] Mithrandir: I can confirm that it works === froud hands Mithrandir a case of beer [12:59] froud: rock! [01:00] Mithrandir: thanks a million [01:00] can somebody who has a gnome bugzilla account submit http://err.no/patches/yelp_handle_endterm_db2html-xref.xsl.diff as a patch for it? [01:00] ok === ogra opens the gate and waves in the beertruck for Mithrandir [01:00] it's so much easier to give people a patch than to say "please change foo in bar" [01:00] ogra: trying to drown me? :) [01:00] hehe [01:01] Mithrandir: just put it in the storage ;) [01:01] my fridge is actually still quite full after all the beer I brought home after FOSDEM. [01:01] is the doc meeting still active? [01:01] but, it's 0100 here now, so I'm off to bed. === Liz just found out what OMF is ..heh [01:01] nite Mithrandir [01:01] im gonna go enjoy the sunshine here [01:02] guess not huh [01:02] mdke, just sorta stopped being a meeting [01:02] but i think people are around [01:02] bah [01:02] i suck [01:03] someone will make up minutes i guess? [01:03] mdke, yep [01:03] :) [01:03] :) [01:03] well i am outta here, see ya all! [01:06] Mithrandir: done http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=170074 [01:06] well team good noght [01:06] night [01:06] night mate === sm [~simon@lsanca1-ar5-4-60-060-085.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === drasko [~drasko@kds8-085.ptt.yu] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === ari__ [~ari@GKMCXXVIII.dsl.saunalahti.fi] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Lhdss"] === dholbach [~daniel@td9091a4a.pool.terralink.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Verlassend"] === mdke [~matt@mdke.user] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === Treenaks_ [martijn@facecrime.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === daniels [~daniels@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Liz [~maori@203.87.27.63] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["see] === YokoZar [~scott@d160-104-la-rue-2.ucdavis.edu] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === Alessio [~Alessio@host113-4.pool8251.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko [~doko___@dsl-084-059-050-022.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === scizzo [~scizzo@c-ab0f72d5.01-113-76786a1.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Simira [~simira@16.80-202-208.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === froud [~froud@ndn-165-131-237.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [dennis@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === apokryphos [~apokrypho@host-84-9-32-243.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mjg59 [mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === froud-away [~froud@ndn-165-131-237.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mjg59 [mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === maskie [~maskie@196-30-108-201.uudial.uunet.co.za] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === Alessio [~Alessio@host113-4.pool8251.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Alessio [~Alessio@host113-4.pool8251.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === froud [~froud@ndn-165-131-237.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Konversation] === ogra [~ogra@p508EB072.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting