[12:03] <zenwhen> Me and my pathetic dialup connection have caught you developers again.
[12:03] <zenwhen> :)
[12:09] <jdub> seb128: arh!
[12:09] <seb128> hey jdub 
[12:09] <tritium> Hello jdub
[12:09] <ogra> hi jdub
[12:09] <dholbach> hi jdub 
[12:10] <Riddell> "dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file debian/quanta.doc-base" how do I tell it not to ignore it?
[12:10] <jdub> gooood morning everybody :)
[12:14] <tseng> hi jdub 
[12:14] <jdub> very hot for 10:00 :|
[12:14] <ogra> jdub: come over, we have -5 here
[12:15] <jdub> any snow?
[12:15] <ogra> just melting but still a lot
[12:15] <thully> I have a question - does info on using the itunes music store on Linux belong in RestrictedFormats?
[12:16] <jdub> thully: sure
[12:17] <thully> OK
[12:18] <jlj> thully: regarding your email, which gstreamer packages where you referring to which are not in default ubuntu install?
[12:18] <jlj> s/where/were
[12:18] <ogra> jlj: lame
[12:19] <tritium> jdub, I read a paper last night with an acknowledgement to "J. Waugh for his support of...computational requirements."   Could that be you?
[12:20] <jdub> tritium: did i lend someone a computer? ;)
[12:20] <tritium> jdub, dunno :) page 12: http://mip-lab4.ecn.purdue.edu/~rimbert/tobit-mle.pdf
[12:21] <jdub> probably not ;)
[12:21] <tritium> quite a coincidence, either way
[12:26] <thully> yes -lame - that would go in multiverse
[12:26] <jdub> seb128: woo, gst-ffmpeg ;)
[12:27] <thully> here's instructions on how to build this:
[12:27] <thully> http://www.columbia.edu/~jr2075/gstreamer-lame-how-to.html
[12:27] <seb128> he he
[12:29] <zul> evening
[12:32] <Mithrandir> hooray, my hoary box with capi/DSL stuff now works.
[12:33] <Mithrandir> I think we should move dhcp-server later in the boot sequence, since you might want to run the dhcp server on hotplugged interfaces.
[12:33] <tseng> thully: hey dude, no need to crosspost that stuff. i gave you specific instructions to do in #-motu
[12:33] <jlj> thully: the ubuntu PyMusique packages don't need lame
[12:35] <zul> tritium: it could be a long distant relative of jdub stranger things have happened
[12:36] <jdub> hey jlj
[12:36] <thully> tseng: sorry - I saw some people talking in here about LAME - I justnoticed what yousaid in motu now
[12:36] <jdub> zul: so there's an african-american university football player called "jeff waugh" too
[12:36] <jlj> hi jdub 
[12:36] <jdub> zul: now *that's* weird ;)
[12:36] <tseng> jdub: he's your spitting image, believe it or not
[12:36] <thully> jlj: I know they don't need lame
[12:36] <zul> jdub: heh
[12:37] <jdub> zul: see google images ;)
[12:37] <zul> the the waugh conspiracy
[12:37] <thully> gstreamer0.8-lame is for soung juicer 
[12:37] <tseng> yes i understand you issue completely
[12:37] <tseng> you dont seem to understand mine
[12:37] <zul> whoa scarey looks like he is hepped up on somethig
[12:37] <jlj> thully: then which packages were you referring to in your email by "The Ubuntu packages on the website needed some gstreamer packages, not included in a standard Ubuntu install, which these packages don't have as depends."
[12:38] <ogra> thully: we discussed it in -motu with you and gave you instruction what to do, why do you start the discussion over again ?
[12:38] <thully> BTW, what do you have to install exactly for the PyMusique packages - I had trouble and just ended up installing all gstreamer plugins and everything .
[12:38] <tseng> the howto he posted has little to do with real debian/ubuntu development, sadly
[12:38] <tseng> argh...
[12:39] <thully> sorry - I missed whatyoumentioned about LAME over there and saw somebody talking about it here
[12:39] <tseng> about you building your own packages from source..
[12:39] <tseng> unless you are working on a package from ubuntu, thats off topic for here
[12:40] <tseng> read the deps in INSTALL or README
[12:41] <thully> OK - This should be discussed in MOTU - but someone else started discussing it in here and in all the discussion I missed what was said in motu
[12:41] <Mithrandir> Kamion: please prod me when you're around next time, I have a bunch of issues which you may or may not be aware of.
[12:41] <tseng> at this point the discussion is over. post the source packages on MOTUTodo. thanks
[12:47] <zul> thats cool my usb crappy camera just works
[12:47] <tritium> zul, heh :)
[12:47] <ogra> zul: bah, get a new one
[12:48] <ogra> how boring
[12:48] <ogra> ;)
[12:48] <zul> got no money
[12:48] <zenwhen> every camera i have plugged into my computer running ubuntu has just worked
[12:48] <zenwhen> its pretty awesome
[12:48] <zenwhen> even horrible awful cheap ones
[12:48] <robtaylor> jdub: so whats happeing with esd/polypaudio now? is polyp in or out?
[12:49] <ogra> esd
[12:49] <robtaylor> ok, just wondering as esd still runs polyp on my hoary box :/
[12:50] <ogra> yup, thats a packaging prob
[12:50] <robtaylor> righty :)
[12:51] <ogra> will get covered in the upgrade notes i guess
[12:52] <jdub> robtaylor: install esound
[12:52] <robtaylor> jdub: installed, thanks :)
[12:52] <zul> jdub: http://zulinux.homelinux.net/pics
[12:52] <zenwhen> so its ok to remove all the polyp stuff?
[12:52] <robtaylor> jdub: just working on the esdsink atm, hence the question :)
[12:53] <jdub> zenwhen: yes
[12:54] <ogra> zul: http://www.susus.de/dschunke/zweinasen.jpg
[12:54] <ajmitch> afternoon
[12:55] <zenwhen> oh wow
[12:55] <zul> ogra: cool
[12:55] <zenwhen> my desktop sounds are back
[12:55] <ogra> zul: we just got that guy since three weeks http://www.susus.de/dschunke/katerpilderken/
[12:56] <seb128> right
[12:56] <seb128> time to sleep
[12:57] <ogra> zul: and to compete with jdubs tiger, thats my beloved fred: http://www.susus.de/dschunke/allerlei/herrf.jpg
[12:57] <ogra> :)
[12:57] <zul> ogra: guinea pigs are cooler though :)
[12:58] <ogra> you dont need to walk them, ut they tend to get fat ;)
[12:58] <ogra> but even
[12:58] <ajmitch> heh
[12:58] <zul> ours can run from the basement of the house to the cage..but anyways
[01:02] <zul> must go watch curling
[01:21] <ogra> bob2: ping
[01:23] <bob2> pong
[01:23] <ogra> hey, i was at the docteam meeting yesterday...
[01:24] <ogra> they have adopted the ubuntuguide for hoary :/
[01:24] <jdub> ogra: just committed your hackergotchi, will have to wait for elmo to sync tho.
[01:24] <jdub> ogra: that's bad?
[01:24] <bob2> it has some dodgy stuff in it
[01:25] <ogra> bon2 since you are one of the most active supporters i suggested you probably should review the docs too if you like
[01:25] <ajmitch> jdub: I've made a hackergotchi for myself, now I just need to write a decent blog :)
[01:25] <ogra> jdub: thanks
[01:25] <tseng> jdub: my blog is ready for you too, if you are into planet admin
[01:25] <tseng> jdub: tseng.ath.cx/log
[01:25] <ogra> jdub: this guide needs a heavy review, and i wouldnt recommend it to anyone unexperienced
[01:26] <ogra> jdub: but its a nice piece for advanced users once the errors are fixed
[01:27] <ogra> (i.e. it tells you to add a link in /dev to get your palm working etc...)
[01:29] <dholbach> jdub's round robin algorithm (concerning talking) seems to have gone haywire 
[01:29] <dholbach> :-)
[01:29] <dholbach> too many people :)
[01:31] <jdub> tseng: already added, but not yet synced
[01:31] <tseng> ah, thanks
[01:31] <tseng> i just added the hackergotchi
[01:31] <jdub> oh, url?
[01:31] <tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/images/hackergotchi.png
[01:33] <jdub> ok, that'll be in the next sync too
[01:33] <jdub> oops
[01:44] <dholbach> good night everyone
[01:44] <tseng> bye dholbach 
[01:44] <dholbach> bye tseng
[01:47] <jdub> um
[01:47] <jdub> $ apt-cache rdepends gtk-smooth-themes
[01:47] <jdub> gtk-smooth-themes
[01:47] <jdub> Reverse Depends:
[01:47] <jdub>   winetools
[01:47] <jdub> ^ wtf?
[01:48] <jdub> weird
[01:53] <ogra> jdub: huh ?
[01:53] <ogra> jdub: winetools is not even in
[01:53] <jdub> from scott's repo
[01:53] <ogra> ah
[01:54] <ogra> so will we see it in main for hoary ? mark seems to want it...
[01:54] <jdub> not main
[01:54] <ogra> hm
[01:54] <ogra> but universe ?
[01:55] <tritium> ogra, I just tried winetools tonight.  It appears to be failing, perhaps due to this: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/17/1318212&tid=125&tid=109&tid=106
[01:56] <ogra> OUCH
[01:56] <ogra> !
[01:57] <tritium> I'll try to confirm that is in fact the real cause.
[02:00] <tritium> ogra, sorry, that must not have been the cause.  It's able to get downloads after all.  My bad.
[02:00] <ogra> tritium: ok
[02:00] <tritium> ogra, jdub sorry for the false-alarm 
[02:02] <ogra> jdub: btw, has your cat a name, its cute
[02:03] <ogra> (even if the nose looks rather doggy)
[02:19] <ogra> night all
[02:21] <tseng> bye ogra 
[02:42] <Amaranth> does anyone here know if gimpnet got hit by a botnet earlier today?
[03:56] <zul> im so going to go see that movie
[04:13] <mdz> zul: what movie?
[04:14] <zul> mdz: hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
[04:17] <zenrox> zul thats an awsome movie (i have the radio programs 
[04:20] <robertj> mdz: hoary's connect to server problems turned out to be a Gnome problem
[06:41] <fabbione> morning
[06:43] <dilinger> hello
[06:43] <fabbione> hey dilinger 
[06:43] <zenrox> new drivers from nvidia rock
[06:43] <zenrox> my x loads faster
[06:43] <zenrox> 1.0-7176
[06:50] <mvo> morning fabbione 
[06:56] <fabbione> hey Mvo :)
[07:19] <toresbe> hahaha
[07:41] <froud> mvo: morning
[07:42] <froud> mvo: my repos access for update-manager is now working. ;-)
[07:43] <froud> mvo: do you have a repos for synaptic or should I just use https://oops.kerneljanitors.org/repos/synaptic/trunk/help/C/
[07:44] <froud> mvo: where is the repos for kynaptic (kubuntu)?
[07:47] <mvo> froud: morning
[07:47] <mvo> froud: for synaptic, use the oops repo
[07:48] <mvo> kynaptic is https://oops.kerneljanitors.org/repos/synaptic/branches/kynaptic
[07:49] <mvo> froud: I'm not sure if it is worth documenting kynaptic yet, IMO it's not quite there yet
[07:52] <froud> mvo: ok thanks
[07:53] <froud> mvo: can you mail me a list of what you see wrong in synaptic manual?
[07:53] <froud> would save me time in updating it
[07:58] <mvo> froud: I need to have a look again, but the low hanging fruits are the missing "supported icon" (see Help/Icon Legend) and something about authentication (what it is, what the warnings mean)
[08:00] <froud> mvo: ok
[08:02] <dilinger> ah, just the person i was looking for
[08:02] <pitti> Morning
[08:02] <dholbach> me?
[08:02] <dholbach> ah ok
[08:02] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[08:02] <dholbach> hi pitti
[08:02] <dilinger> pitti: good morning
[08:02] <dholbach> hi dilinger 
[08:02] <dholbach> good moooooooorning
[08:02] <dilinger> dholbach: hello
[08:02] <dilinger> pitti: what's the url for that CAN page you have?
[08:02] <dholbach> pitti: have the burnt DVDs
[08:02] <mvo> hi dholbach 
[08:03] <dholbach> pitti: will take them to the post office later
[08:03] <dholbach> hellas mvo
[08:03] <mvo> morning pitti 
[08:04] <pitti> dilinger: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve.html
[08:04] <dilinger> thanks
[08:05] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:06] <fabbione> pitti: i am still waiting a mail from you about all the stuff for the kernel
[08:07] <fabbione> specially CAN-2005-0204...
[08:07] <fabbione> i must change my signature file one day....
[08:07] <fabbione> "if CAN were dildos, i would be goatse..."
[08:10] <dholbach> HAHAHA
[08:10] <fabbione> "if CAN were dildos, i would at least get some sex...."
[08:10] <fabbione> or on these lines :)
[08:10] <dholbach> fabbione: you're soooooooo funny :-)
[08:11] <dholbach> you do... no doubt about that
[08:36] <pitti> amu: ping
[08:44] <amu> pitti: pong
[08:44] <fabbione> amu: RUN RUN RUN!
[08:44] <fabbione> he will hunt you down!
[08:45] <amu> fabbione: nono pitti is a nice guy he'll never do something bad :P
[08:45] <fabbione> yeah right!
[08:46] <pitti> fabbione: oh, just ppc issues this time, no security :-)
[08:46] <fabbione> ehhee
[08:47] <amu> btw. g'morning 
[08:48] <dholbach> good morning, d3vic3!
[08:50] <d3vic3> morning 
[09:56] <pitti> daniels: hey
[09:56] <pitti> daniels: do you still have this UseFWPLL patched  radeon driver for X.org 6.8.2?
[09:59] <mvo> pitti: daniels is on vacation I think
[10:00] <pitti> oh
[10:00] <daniels> just took today as a non-work day as it's a public holiday here
[10:00] <daniels> did lots of shopping
[10:00] <daniels> basically bought a kitchen
[10:01] <daniels> i took the fwpll stuff out, we have a better solution in now
[10:01] <daniels> it should just work out of the box in all situations in hoary
[10:01] <pitti> daniels: it doesn't
[10:01] <daniels> ah cool :)
[10:01] <daniels> could you please email xorg@lists.fd.o with your Xorg.0.log, xorg.conf, and a full description of the problem?
[10:01] <pitti> daniels: maybe no patch is required any more, maybe there is a magical option ppc users need to turn on in xorg.conf
[10:02] <daniels> oh, right
[10:02] <daniels> hold on a sec, there was one
[10:02] <daniels> try Option "LVDSProbePLL"
[10:03] <amu> in the device-section i guess? 
[10:04] <daniels> yeah
[10:06] <pitti> daniels: does not work for me
[10:07] <daniels> hmm
[10:07] <daniels> ok, email xorg@lists.freedesktop.org
[10:07] <pitti> I do
[10:07] <daniels> and say that you're using the latest Ubuntu packages, which has the last patch benh gave me (about two weeks ago or something), and that you tried with and without LVDSProbePLL
[10:07] <amu> pitti: just found http://lists.freedesktop.org/pipermail/xorg/2004-December/005259.html
[10:09] <amu> daniels: could that work? ^^
[10:12] <daniels> amu: shouldn't make any difference, really
[10:21] <amu> daniels: but i need also your special patched driver version?, or it works out of the box with last xorg packages? 
[10:22] <daniels> amu: hoary packages are file
[10:22] <daniels> fine, even
[10:22] <amu> daniels: ok, thx
[10:52] <pitti_> Moin seb128 
[10:52] <seb128> morning
[11:07] <dholbach> hi seb128 
[11:48] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I have a few gripes about the preview installer -- not sure if those are fixed later.
[11:48] <Mithrandir> Kamion: first, when selecting "norwegian (bokmal)" as my language, the keyboard chooser suggests I have a Macedonian keyboard.
[11:49] <Mithrandir> it also seems like the fact that I chose norwegian wasn't properly propagated, as it installed language-pack-en and generated a lot of en_* locales.
[11:50] <Nafallo> for swedish it generated ar, de, en, es and what else is there ;-).
[11:50] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it also sets no_NO, not nb_NO.  no_NO is deprecated and should go away; nb_NO is the way forward.
[11:50] <Mithrandir> also, language-pack doesn't respect user changes.  I removed all the en_* but en_US, but they were readded.
[11:52] <Simira> when is the last chance of adding translations to hoary?
[11:52] <Simira> Kamion: and where can I get the .po-files for Ubuntu installer?
[12:04] <Kamion> Simira: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/installer-po/
[12:04] <Kamion> Mithrandir: the keyboard chooser defaults are set by console-data, I think
[12:05] <Kamion> Mithrandir: language-pack-en is deliberately installed, by request of mdz; see #7103
[12:05] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no_NO> erm, ok, localechooser bug I guess ...
[12:05] <Mithrandir> Kamion: still, l-p-e shouldn't override my changes to locale.gen
[12:06] <Kamion> Mithrandir: sure, blame pitti :)
[12:06] <Mithrandir> pitti: blame you! :)
[12:06] <pitti> Mithrandir: what does it override?
[12:06] <Mithrandir> pitti: I removed en_* (except for en_US) from /etc/locale.gen
[12:06] <pitti> Mithrandir: the postinst should add all the en_* locales, but not remove yours
[12:06] <Kamion> pitti: if you remove en_WHATEVER from /etc/locale.gen, it adds them back in on upgrade, apparently
[12:06] <Mithrandir> they were readded.
[12:06] <pitti> oh, yes
[12:06] <Mithrandir> I'm sorry, but I _really_ don't care about en_HK and similar.
[12:06] <pitti> Mithrandir: maybe this shouldn't be done on upgrades then?
[12:07] <Mithrandir> on a box which has a single user (me)
[12:07] <Kamion> thom,elmo: around? need somebody with root on little semi-urgently
[12:07] <fabbione> i still blame gtk :-)
[12:07] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'd be incluned to agree.
[12:07] <Mithrandir> inclined, even
[12:07] <pitti> Kamion: ^ you too?
[12:07] <fabbione> Kamion: do you need an exploit to gain root on little? ;)
[12:07] <Kamion> thom,elmo: rm -rf /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/ubuntu/tmp/hoary-{amd64,i386}/CD1/{bin,disctree,programs} please
[12:07] <Simira> Kamion: thanks
[12:07] <Kamion> pitti: yeah
[12:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: however, this has to wait a bit until I upload new base packages
[12:08] <Mithrandir> pitti: sure.
[12:08] <Mithrandir> pitti: it's just annoying to sit around and wait for ten locales to be generated on a pii-300
[12:15] <thom> Kamion: one sec
[12:17] <thom> Kamion: done
[12:20] <Kamion> ta
[12:20] <thom> Kamion: good to see you on saturday; safe trip home?
[12:21] <daniels> Kamion: oh, you were in Canadia too/
[12:21] <Kamion> thom: yep, got home a bit later than intended (stupidly slow train) but otherwise fine
[12:21] <Kamion> daniels: mm?
[12:21] <thom> Kamion: oh, you wound up on the stopper of destiny? :/
[12:21] <daniels> Kamion: cool
[12:22] <Kamion> daniels: no, I wasn't
[12:22] <daniels> Kamion: oh, nevermind
[12:22] <Kamion> thom: two hours rather than three, which it can be at worst, but still ...
[12:22] <daniels> Kamion: yow, that's rather horrid
[12:22] <thom> yeah, bit unnecesary
[12:22] <Kamion> daniels: if you mean the release update, no, I just checked in remotely
[12:22] <daniels> Kamion: right
[12:22] <Kamion> yay, dvd burner
[12:25] <Mithrandir> fabbione: just close 2502 now?
[12:33] <fabbione> Mithrandir: checking now
[12:33] <sivang> Hi all
[12:33] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yes we can close it imho
[12:34] <pitti> Hi sivang 
[12:34] <sivang> pitti: Hi martin, what's up?
[12:34] <pitti> sivang: I'm debugging ntpd
[12:35] <pitti> sivang: this silly thing works everytime but on bootup
[12:35] <pitti> sivang: so I have to reboot very often for debugging *grumpf*
[12:35] <Mithrandir> fabbione: ok, closing.
[12:35] <pitti> sivang: getpwnam() is playing bad with me
[12:36] <Mithrandir> seb128: any idea how to fix 6618 (except the "make thunderbird quit faster")?
[12:37] <Kamion> ow, bitten by hardware
[12:37] <seb128> Mithrandir: nop, evolution does the same ...
[12:39] <thom> yay, it's not just me who gets bled on by stuff
[12:39] <pitti> Kamion: what's wrong with your finger? Did your cat like it too much? 
[12:39] <Kamion> 11:37 < Kamion> ow, bitten by hardware
[12:40] <Kamion> no cat; we have a snake, but not the biting kind
[12:41] <pitti> yeah, the unix stuff - "small sharp tools" :-)
[12:43] <thom> dilinger: my fingers managed to reverse that sentence for me
[12:44] <ajmitch> Kamion: I can understand, except it's my index finger that I sliced :)
[12:45] <sivang> pitti: oh that's bad :-/
[12:45] <sivang> pitti: anyway, would you like to upload my packages today?
[12:45] <sivang> hmm, crappy net access? ;-)
[12:46] <fabbione> Kamion: are you updating the live and cd images?
[12:47] <Kamion> fabbione: yes
[12:47] <Kamion> hm, why might my BIOS hang at IDE detection now that I've plugged in a DVD drive?
[12:48] <fabbione> Kamion: wrong master/slave/cs jumper?
[12:49] <sivang> pitti: wb :)
[12:49] <sivang> pitti: crappy network?
[12:49] <Kamion> fabbione: hm, could be
[12:49] <pitti> sivang: no, frequent reboots for debugging ntp-server
[12:50] <sivang> pitti: ah I see. ok, lemme know when you have time to upload the modified g-c-m
[12:54] <koke> is Michiel Sikkes here? I don't know his nick
[12:54] <amu> lamont: around? 
[12:56] <dholbach> koke: mitario
[12:56] <tp> just a quick question before I post a bug. in /etc/fonts/local.conf .. autohint is now enabled and the panel won't switch it off. Is this correct behaviour (if I uncomment autohint, I return to warty style / autohint disabled behaviour) 
[12:57] <Treenaks> isn't the autohinter enabled/disabled by the "fonts" config panel?
[12:57] <tp> it doesn't seem to be
[12:58] <tp> with auto hint enabled in local.conf, the fonts are fuzzy regardles of hinting
[12:58] <Treenaks> hm, I'll leave it disabled then
[12:58] <tp> with autohint disabled, I can get warty style no-autohinting (verticals are clean)
[12:58] <Treenaks> I don't want fuzzy fonts
[12:58] <tp> would you like me to post anything?
[12:58] <jdub> koke: mitario when he's on
[12:59] <koke> dholbach, jdub thanks :)
[12:59] <fabbione> jdub: btw. i managed to get gst-launch to work
[12:59] <fabbione> jdub: but flumotion still barfs
[01:02] <jdub> fabbione: did you use extra parameters for v4lsrc with your gst-launch line?
[01:03] <tp> Treenaks: thanks, leave a message if you'd like me to post anything
[01:03] <fabbione> jdub: no. only gst-launch-0.8 v4lsrc ! ximagesink or something on that line
[01:03] <fabbione> but it was only one parameter
[01:03] <jdub> i mean directly after v4lsrc
[01:04] <fabbione> nope
[01:04] <fabbione> nothing more than that
[01:04] <jdub> what changes did you make to have it working?
[01:04] <fabbione> i solved the 2 frames thingy with a driver setting
[01:04] <fabbione> it is a specific gst bug that can be workarounded
[01:04] <fabbione> at least according to the driver documentation
[01:05] <doko> fabbione: http://listserv.isdn4linux.de/pipermail/isdn4linux/2005-March/001292.html
[01:06] <Kamion> fabbione: thanks, that was it
[01:06] <fabbione> Kamion: no problem.. i did nothing :)
[01:06] <fabbione> doko: reading now
[01:07] <fabbione> doko: that still doesn't fix the segfault on the avfritz thingy
[01:07] <fabbione> and in any case it is too late for reinclusion
[01:07] <doko> the patch that I attached to the bug report had the avmfritz driver disabled.
[01:09] <fabbione> doko: what was the bug number again?
[01:09] <sivang> pitti: back?
[01:10] <pitti> sivang: yes, package build is nearly finished. I need (at least) one further reboot for testing
[01:10] <sivang> pitti: ok, have you gotten my msg about g-c-m?
[01:10] <pitti> sivang: I tell you when I'm ready :-)
[01:11] <sivang> pitti:ok, thx :)  There's also something strange with postgres going on over my system, it won't never stop nicely when rebooting, is this known?
[01:11] <mvo> doko: I find the mail scary. I mean, the kernel changes a API in the middle of a stable series 
[01:11] <pitti> sivang: no, please file a bug
[01:11] <sivang> pitti: ok, is there anythinig to do to retrive logs and backtrac information etc?
[01:12] <pitti> sivang: output messages, to start with
[01:12] <Kamion> Mithrandir: did you ask lamont to fix PaS for openoffice.org-amd64?
[01:12] <Kamion> or actually elmo, I guess
[01:12] <sivang> pitti: ok, apparently there are none, but I should boot without "quiet" and then recheck.
[01:12] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's not PaS-ed
[01:13] <doko> fabbione: #5193
[01:13] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it hasn't built on ia64 ...
[01:14] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@shonap ~ > wget -qO - 'http://cvs.debian.org/srcdep/Packages-arch-specific?rev=HEAD&cvsroot=dak&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup' | grep openoffice.org-amd64
[01:14] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@shonap ~ >
[01:21] <Kamion> fabbione: new install CDs up, live CDs building
[01:22] <Kamion> live bloated a bit, may be broken
[01:22] <fabbione> hmmm
[01:22] <fabbione> well i will start with the install ;)
[01:22] <fabbione> but i need to wait a bit later to test the dvd install
[01:22] <fabbione> i can't trash the actual installation on that machine
[01:22] <fabbione> not yet at least
[01:23] <fabbione> i have to take a full backup.. just in case
[01:23] <Kamion> hm, I should be able to try out the Linux Magazine DVD now
[01:26] <fabbione> #define ARCHi386  1
[01:26] <fabbione> is this a typo in README.diskdefines  ?
[01:26] <fabbione> (from the DVD)
[01:27] <Kamion> probably, I'll check
[01:27] <fabbione> there is another line right on top that define the same...
[01:27] <Kamion> well, appears to be deliberate
[01:27] <fabbione> or almost
[01:27] <fabbione> ok
[01:27] <d3vic3> Kamion, can i send you a diff and dsc file, so you can upload on my behalf ?
[01:28] <Kamion> what's that file actually used for, if anything?
[01:28] <Kamion> d3vic3: what package?
[01:28] <d3vic3> libxine1
[01:28] <Kamion> mm, would prefer someone who actually knows about the package ;)
[01:28] <fabbione> d3vic3: send it here if Kamion is busy
[01:28] <fabbione> ok send it to me
[01:28] <fabbione> fabbione@u.c 
[01:28] <Kamion> thanks fabio
[01:28] <fabbione> np
[01:29] <Kamion> fabbione: no, ARCHi386 appears to be deliberate; README.html.in uses that
[01:29] <fabbione> thanks
[01:30] <Kamion> dunno why we bother actually shipping that file though, it's weird
[01:30] <fabbione> probably for the autocd detection thingy?
[01:31] <Kamion> nah, that generally uses other files, like .disk/info, dists/, or the ubuntu symlink
[01:31] <fabbione> automount -> detect -> show the nice message "Hey your cdrom is choaking an Ubuntu Hoary cd! wanna upgrade?"
[01:31] <Kamion> yeah, nothing like that uses README.diskdefines as far as I know
[01:32] <pitti> sivang: ntp works again, now let's tackle g-c-m
[01:32] <d3vic3> fabbione, incomming 
[01:32] <pitti> sivang: patch?
[01:32] <fabbione> d3vic3: ok
[01:33] <pitti> smurfix: here?
[01:39] <fabbione> d3vic3: is that correct that you only added an entry in the changelog?
[01:40] <d3vic3> yup 
[01:40] <d3vic3> force to rebuild 
[01:41] <fabbione> d3vic3: yes but that is not enough generally
[01:41] <fabbione> you should be sure (via debian/control) that the package cannot build with the old version of libflac
[01:41] <fabbione> otherwise you only partially solve the problem
[01:45] <d3vic3> I made sure 
[01:45] <d3vic3> fabbione, tested it also
[01:46] <fabbione> d3vic3: you need to modify debian/control
[01:46] <fabbione> to ensure that it gets the right version of libflac
[01:47] <fabbione> ah pants off
[01:47] <egli> mdz: re bug 4354: you say that you need more info and you cannot reproduce the bug.
[01:47] <egli> mdz: the bug report is for warty
[01:47] <egli> mdz: I'll have to see if I can get a hoary machine to try to reproduce the problem
[01:48] <pitti> sivang: ping
[01:48] <fabbione> d3vic3: ok.. never mind..
[01:48] <d3vic3> fabbione, ??? 
[01:49] <fabbione> d3vic3: it's ok..
[01:49] <d3vic3> explain please, in case I'm missing something 
[01:50] <fabbione> no it's me
[01:50] <fabbione> i missed something
[01:50] <fabbione> anyway.. uploaded
[01:52] <fabbione> Kamion: does the DVD come with combo live/install?
[01:53] <Kamion> fabbione: yes
[01:53] <Kamion> type 'live' to boot in live mode
[01:57] <kagou> hi
[01:57] <kagou> where can i put options for modules ? I don't have a /etc/modules.conf .... I want to add "options ide-cd dma=1"
[01:58] <Treenaks> kagou: use /etc/hdparm.conf for setting DMA on IDE devices
[02:00] <kagou> Treenaks, i have "hdc=noprobe hdc=cdrom" on kernel parameters (if not hal crash)
[02:00] <Treenaks> is it such a strange config?
[02:00] <kagou> so i don't have possibility to enable DMA for my dvdrw (hdc)
[02:01] <kagou> it's a notebook
[02:01] <Treenaks> hdparm -d1 /dev/hdc
[02:01] <Treenaks> try that
[02:01] <kagou> make's an error
[02:01] <Treenaks> hm
[02:01] <Kamion> what error?
[02:02] <kagou> my notebook -> http://forum.hardware.fr/hardwarefr/MiniPCPortablesPDA/sujet-1459-1.htm
[02:03] <kagou> the error is :
[02:04] <kagou> "Operation not permitted"
[02:05] <kagou> i'v read here https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=75387 that may be i can pass "dma=1" to the ide-cd module
[02:13] <kagou> i 'v also tried to load via82cxxx before ide-cd module
[02:13] <sivang> pitti: pong
[02:16] <dholbach> see you later
[02:24] <herzi> is matthias klose around here? what's his nick?
[02:25] <pitti> herzi: doko
[02:25] <thom> doko
[02:25] <herzi> doko: ping
[02:25] <herzi> thanks guys
[02:26] <jdub> yo herzi 
[02:28] <herzi> yo jdub, what's up? i've been ill and busy the last weeks, i'd like to see you on tv :)
[02:28] <jdub> heh
[02:28] <d3vic3> O.o
[02:28] <jdub> so first you should mail the starlight foundation
[02:28] <jdub> and for ONE MILLION DOLLARS i will appear for you on TV
[02:29] <herzi> jdub: okay, i'll wait for guadec then :P
[02:30] <Treenaks> jdub: and specific kind of dollar?
[02:30] <Treenaks> jdub: and=any
[02:30] <mvo> jdub: are there plans to update the .desktop files of gnome-app-install? I have a branch of ross repository that contains some i18n updates and it would be nice if they could be included in a upload (along with desktop file updates)
[02:31] <jdub> mvo: yes
[02:31] <jdub> mvo: you're welcome to do an upload straight away
[02:31] <jdub> mvo: ross is away
[02:31] <doko> herzi: pong
[02:31] <herzi> doko: just taking a look at the gdb stuff
[02:31] <mvo> jdub: can we talk in private what other updates are needed to the package?
[02:31] <jdub> ok
[02:31] <herzi> a ppc package would have been useful for me
[02:31] <mjg59> thom: Ping?
[02:32] <thom> mjg59: ack
[02:32] <mjg59> thom: Can you take a look at http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/gdm-signal.tar.gz ?
[02:33] <mjg59> We need that in order to allow sleep buttons that send keycodes to work
[02:35] <thom> mjg59: ok, will do
[02:36] <thom> mjg59: what's the go with radeontool for hoary? can't remember what needs to happen, if anything
[02:36] <mjg59> thom: I haven't heard back from enough testers.
[02:37] <zul> morning
[02:39] <mjg59> And what I have heard back is somewhat contradictory
[02:40] <herzi> svenl: ping
[02:44] <svenl> herzi: pong.
[02:46] <herzi> svenl: what's the status of ubuntu on pegasos?
[02:48] <svenl> herzi: it should work, provided the patches go int.
[02:49] <svenl> herzi: it will need an OF upgrade i am working on (only yaboot-from-CD is still broken), X configuration will be fixed provided the two patches in 7144 are merged and not deemed unimportant.
[02:49] <svenl> herzi: yaboot-installer will need fixing and the new OF upload, but Kamion said he would work on that.
[02:49] <svenl> herzi: and the 2.6.10 kernel of ubuntu lacks the gigabit ethernet driver patch.
[02:50] <svenl> herzi: as a workaround to missing yaboot support in pegasos-OF, the mkvmlinuz workaround could be added to the kernel, there was no great interest on that though, altough Kamion said he would like to make it happen.
[02:50] <svenl> herzi: the rest is user testing and things i haven't really looked in.
[02:51] <herzi> did you get the amiga-support into yaboot yet?
[02:51] <herzi> i heard upstream wasn't keen about them
[02:51] <svenl> herzi: yep.
[02:52] <svenl> herzi: after 6 month of fighting, it is finally in, there may be other bugs though, like yaboot thinking that a CD iso should have one partition on it i am still working on.
[02:52] <svenl> herzi: yaboot from netboot and yaboot from disk on yaboot-supported-filesystem works.
[02:53] <herzi> .oO(partitioned cds....)
[02:53] <Amaranth> so, what's the deal with grumpy? someone is telling it it'll be like debian's sid
[02:53] <svenl> herzi: the problem is in the pegasos-of code ignoring the partition/filesystem detection code when called from the client-interface which yaboot uses, but i am working on that.
[02:53] <Amaranth> is that true?
[02:53] <herzi> Amaranth: grumpy will the the post-hoary
[02:54] <herzi> so it's more what "jackie" (iirc) is for debian
[02:54] <herzi> jessie
[02:54] <pitti> what's jessie?
[02:54] <Treenaks> herzi: etch you mean (post-sarge)
[02:54] <Amaranth> Ok, so the talk about it being like sid and "bendy" being the next release isn't true?
[02:54] <svenl> herzi: no, it detects a iso filesystem, and then declares a partition table with one partition of empty size, instead of returning NULL, so yaboot passes bullshit to the underlyig OF. bullshit which apple-of knows how to handle.
[02:54] <herzi> k
[02:54] <herzi> pitti: jessie is post-sarge
[02:55] <herzi> k
[02:55] <Mithrandir> pitti: it is etch.
[02:55] <Treenaks> herzi: it's etch, according to the "nybbles from the d-a team"
[02:55] <Treenaks> d-r team?
[02:55] <Treenaks> v-man?
[02:56] <herzi> http://dict.leo.org/?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed&relink=on&sectHdr=on&spellToler=std&search=v-mann
[02:56] <Treenaks> ah, your informant :)
[02:56] <pitti> thom: I just cleaned the mozilla-thunderbird-locale-* packages, shall I do the mozilla-locale-* stuff as well?
[02:56] <pitti> thom: (the bugs are currently yours)
[03:01] <pitti> elmo: please remove the following source packages from the archive: mozilla-firefox-locale-{da,fr,sv,tr} (superseded by m-f-l-all)
[03:02] <Kamion> Amaranth: current favourite name for the next release is "breezy", but it's not final yet
[03:03] <Amaranth> Kamion: So the name hasn't been picked but there won't be a "grumpy" too, right?
[03:03] <Kamion> Amaranth: grumpy was originally intended to be the release after hoary, but that's no longer going to be the case; it's likely to end up being some kind of autobuilt crack-of-the-day-from-upstream faux-distribution
[03:03] <Amaranth> like sid
[03:03] <Kamion> no, not like sid
[03:04] <Kamion> sid is still maintained by means of source uploads from developers
[03:04] <Kamion> grumpy will be automatic from upstream CVS repositories and the like, if it ever gets off the ground
[03:04] <Kamion> rather more like a sort of automatically-maintained experimental
[03:05] <Kamion> in that you'd be extremely unlikely to want to run grumpy as a whole, but perhaps individual packages from there
[03:07] <Simira> Kamion: when is string freeze for hoary? 
[03:15] <pitti> mvo: ping
[03:17] <sivang> seb128: hey Seb, I'd need to ask you about adding trasnlation support to some code I wrote
[03:17] <seb128> hi
[03:17] <seb128> use gettext
[03:17] <Kamion> Simira: I don't know, sorry
[03:18] <froud-work> sivang: speak to trickie he is using gettext and pot/po etc for ubuntu-doc
[03:19] <froud-work> sivang: he can probably help you with the toolchain required
[03:19] <sivang> seb128: so just process my code with gettext to update the POT file for g-c-m for example?
[03:20] <seb128> make update-po in po/
[03:21] <sivang> seb128: ok, btw, the source pacakges are pre translation strip right?
[03:21] <seb128> ?
[03:21] <sivang> seb128: (that is , they containt all the translation data)
[03:21] <seb128> the source is the upstream source
[03:21] <seb128> sure
[03:21] <sivang> seb128: how does translation data works in relation with the source packages?
[03:21] <seb128> I don't get the question
[03:21] <sivang> seb128: so pitti's scripts eat sources pkgs and strip the translation data from them?
[03:22] <pitti> sivang: no
[03:22] <seb128> no, that's a build time stuff
[03:22] <sivang> pitti: ok
[03:22] <pitti> sivang: pkgstriptranslations strips mo files from debs
[03:22] <sivang> pitti: eh
[03:22] <pitti> sivang: the source pacakges are not altered
[03:22] <sivang> pitti: mo files are created from the binaries?
[03:23] <pitti> sivang: from po files, yes
[03:24] <sivang> pitti: ok,was just interested how we handle the traslations from the source pkgs enter the buildd
[03:28] <sivang> seb128: do I only have to do _("string") to have my strings added ?
[03:28] <sivang> seb128: (before running gettext in the /po folder)
[03:29] <seb128> you are writting a new program ?
[03:29] <seb128> or changing one ?
[03:29] <sivang> seb128: changing
[03:29] <sivang> seb128: g-c-m
[03:29] <seb128> ok, so you can use _()
[03:29] <sivang> seb128: cool, thanks!
[03:29] <seb128> and make update-po should work in po/
[03:29] <pitti> sivang: you should probably also add the new string to seb's metabug (#???) regarding translations
[03:30] <sivang> pitti, seb128 : what's that meta bug? ;-)
[03:30] <seb128> that's as quick to search for you as for me
[03:30] <seb128> don't be that lazy 
[03:30] <seb128> search for bug with translation in the title in bugzilla
[03:30] <seb128> :)
[03:30] <sivang> seb128: I will search :) just thought there was the number at hand :-))
[03:31] <lupusBE> seb128, will I have to wait long for hald 0.5 and dbus 0.30 :P I want to do some hacking on g-v-m
[03:32] <seb128> that's a question for pitti
[03:32] <seb128> I don't maintain hal or dbus
[03:32] <seb128> but that's probably not for hoary
[03:32] <pitti> lupusBE: not for Hoary
[03:33] <pitti> lupusBE: the new hal is sexy, but it has big architectural changes
[03:33] <pitti> lupusBE: I'll package it around the start of May
[03:34] <lupusBE> I wonder if making an app gtk only will make it use less memory
[03:35] <herzi> lupusBE: usually that's not the case
[03:35] <herzi> because i need to duplicate code that can be shared in memory in a library
[03:36] <lupusBE> I find it mysterious that g-v-m needs 6mb of resident memory
[03:41] <fabbione> seb128: my little french friend.. YOU ROCK!
[03:42] <Mithrandir> fabbione: Iz not GTK bug?
[03:42] <seb128> fabbione: thanks, but I've done something special ? 
[03:43] <fabbione> Mithrandir: well he gave me some good hints to unfucking the sparc buildd from the GTK bugin3zz :-)
[03:52] <lamont> Mithrandir: oo.o-amd64 is certainly PaS: amd64
[03:52] <lamont> and it's an elmo fix
[03:53] <Mithrandir> lamont: not on cvs.d.o
[03:53] <lamont> right
[03:53] <lamont> hence elmo-fix
[03:53] <Mithrandir> elmo: could you please un-pas ooo-amd64?  It should build on ia64 as well.
[03:53] <lamont> ours is derived from theirs
[03:53] <Mithrandir> I thought we synced stuff back?
[03:55] <travail101> how's linux-wlan-ng integration coming along? =P
[03:58] <Kamion> travail101: it's been added to ship
[03:59] <Kamion> I've just asked about the live seed too
[03:59] <travail101> :-D
[03:59] <travail101> I'm looking forward to having an Ubuntu LiveCD with my wireless supported =D
[04:04] <travail101> what C(XX)FLAGS does Ubuntu use?
[04:05] <tseng> mtune=pentium4 -mcpu=i486 -O2 or so
[04:06] <travail101> wow, what's mtune, I've never heard of that flag
[04:06] <tseng> its in man/info gcc
[04:07] <travail101> ok
[04:07] <travail101> wait... it wouldn't have any advatage over -march when using on a single system would it?
[04:08] <tseng> no, march uses instruction set specific tuning
[04:08] <tseng> which is potentially better than tuning, which is still portable
[04:08] <travail101> so I should stick with march for my own stuff
[04:08] <travail101> and mtune for making generic packages for friends or whatever
[04:09] <tseng> you should really not be too worried about it, imo
[04:09] <travail101> tseng, why's that?
[04:09] <tseng> because it doesnt matter that much in the scheme of things
[04:10] <travail101> I hear a lot of talk about whether or not all these aggresive SFLAGS actually do any good in practice...
[04:10] <travail101> CFLAGS*
[04:10] <herzi> travail101: with modern cpus you don't get that much benefit
[04:10] <tseng> some packages certainly benefit, but most by a few fractions of a second
[04:10] <tseng> at which point, who cares
[04:11] <tseng> ubuntu careful selected sane defaults for you
[04:11] <travail101> (i don't use Ubuntu... :-|)
[04:11] <tseng> then you are more off topic than I thought.
[04:12] <travail101> I'm trying to learn a little about CFLAGS and i hear from different places that Ubuntu has a pretty responsive desktop
[04:13] <travail101> and I know that technically if you want full optimization you need to do a lot of homework and tweak the flags spedifically for each package
[04:13] <tseng> that legend comes from LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1"
[04:13] <tseng> well not legend..
[04:13] <travail101> but I'd like to find the best default, for packages that don't need to be portable, just for use on my system
[04:14] <tseng> but come back and see us again when you haev ubuntu packaging issues please
[04:14] <tseng> we arent here to help you optimize your gentoo or whatever
[04:14] <travail101> well thanx anyway
[04:14] <Treenaks> wow, #gentoo :P
[04:15] <lamont> elmo about?  thom?
[04:15] <travail101> Treenaks, they don't know everything you know
[04:16] <Treenaks> travail101: I don't know everything, but pissing contests about CFLAGS are really gentoo-ish in my eyes :)
[04:16] <travail101> I'm not an elitist that stays in the realm of my own Distro/favorite whatever, I like to gather the ideas/knowledge and experience of the entire OpenSource community
[04:17] <lamont> travail101: ubuntu uses -march=i486 -mcpu=pentium4 -pipe
[04:17] <lamont> it's the -pipe that makes things run so fast. :-)
[04:18] <fabbione> ahhaha
[04:20] <lamont> travail101: -pipe just tells the compiler to use a pipe instead of temp files for passing things between stages.
[04:20] <lamont> which is to say, it doesn't do squat for runtime performance
[04:20] <travail101> that's what I thought
[04:20] <pitti> jbailey: here?
[04:20] <travail101> it helps with compile time right?
[04:21] <Treenaks> lamont: why isn't this default then?
[04:21] <jbailey> pitti: Yup!
[04:21] <Kamion> Treenaks: uses more memory
[04:22] <lamont> Treenaks: history? dunno
[04:22] <lamont> -pipe means that you get a whole bunch of components (stages) running at the same time - this can slow down compiles on single processor machines
[04:22] <Treenaks> Kamion: true, but it's also faster if you have it, right?
[04:23] <travail101> lamont, =P maybe i should remove -pipe then
[04:23] <Treenaks> lamont: then uniprocessor machines should be outlawed :P
[04:23] <lamont> which reminds me...  maybe I should turn of -pipe on the UP ia64 build machines...
[04:24] <Mitario> mvo, hey, you here?
[04:24] <mvo> Mitario: yes
[04:24] <Mitario> mvo, everything allright? :)
[04:24] <mvo> Mitario: yeah, pretty good here :)
[04:24] <Mitario> ok nice :)
[04:24] <Mitario> i just did a little mockup of some idea i have for synaptic
[04:24] <Mitario> (UI stuff)
[04:25] <travail101> mind if I ask one more non ubuntu question?
[04:25] <travail101> or would you rather I just leave?
[04:25] <mvo> Mitario: cool, URL?
[04:25] <Mitario> mvo, geeklog.eyesopened.nl/wp-content/images/synaptic-mockup.png
[04:26] <Mitario> woops that - should be a ' '
[04:26] <mvo> for the download progress? looks nice :)
[04:26] <Mitario> yeah for the download progress :)
[04:26] <mvo> not for hoary (and synaptic-0.56) though :)
[04:26] <Mitario> no i know hoary+1 :)
[04:27] <Mitario> I'll try and do some patches in some time then :) good oppertunity to learn some C++
[04:28] <lamont> travail101: as long as it's development related, fire away
[04:29] <travail101> it's kernel related
[04:29] <travail101> patchsets and so on
[04:29] <lamont> prolly devel related, then...
[04:29] <fabbione> Kamion: tomorrow we will upload a new kernel and we need to bump the ABI
[04:29] <fabbione> Kamion: that will happen around 14:00 UTC (the upload)
[04:29] <lamont> fabbione: my mirror hates you
[04:29] <fabbione> lamont: give him a hug from me ;)
[04:31] <mvo> Mitario: hehe :) go for it if you want. but chances are there that more parts of synaptic will move into python. I hacked some code in python-apt for a fetcher interface. that means that we can move to a python implementation of downloading and installing in u-m and g-a-i (and we will not need synaptic as backend anymore)
[04:31] <Mitario> mvo, hehe, well thats great!
[04:32] <Mitario> this way we could have a cool native python progress thingy in u-m and g-a-i
[04:32] <Mitario> mvo, is it in tla somewhere? I'd like to try it :)
[04:32] <mvo> Mitario: urm, err ... /me checks
[04:32] <Mitario> but anyways, remember that synaptic won't go away :) so it would be a nice UI thingy anyways
[04:34] <Mithrandir> lamont: does ia32-libs-openoffice.org exist on ia64?
[04:34] <mvo> Mitario: right :) my python work is in michael.vogt@ubuntu.com--2005/python-apt--mvo--0 (it needs "baz")
[04:35] <lamont> libs/ia32-libs-openoffice.org_1ubuntu4: Installed by buildd+weddell [optional:out-of-date] 
[04:35] <mvo> Mitario: it needs some more flesh, but the "update" method is implemented and doc/examples/action.py contains some example code
[04:35] <lamont> Mithrandir: (that's a yes)
[04:35] <Mithrandir> lamont: ok, thanks.
[04:35] <Mithrandir> lamont: I'm writing a mail to James, since he doesn't seem to be around ATM.
[04:35] <Mitario> mvo, very cool :)
[04:36] <lamont> Mithrandir: yeah
[04:36] <lamont> brb
[04:37] <sivang> mvo: you're like writing python bindings for lipapt  so python programs could use it natively? :-)
[04:38] <jbailey> mjg59: Around?
[04:38] <mjg59> jbailey: Ish, yeah
[04:38] <mjg59> What's up?
[04:38] <Kamion> fabbione: ok
[04:39] <jbailey> mjg59: Would it be insane to do something where we look at a swap partition and if it has a suspend-to-disk image in it, we just automatically run mkswap?
[04:39] <mjg59> jbailey: No, that's the right answer
[04:39] <fabbione> Kamion: it would help if you will be around that time
[04:39] <jbailey> mjg59: ISTM that if we get that far, the image is already useless.
[04:39] <mjg59> If we get that far, the image is actively dangerous
[04:39] <fabbione> Kamion: so that we can push/seed it as appropriate
[04:39] <mvo> sivang: python-apt is available since a long time now. but it lacks importend bits that are needed if you want to use it as a "real" package manager. e.s. the interface to mark packages for install and the interface to fetch and install
[04:39] <fabbione> daniels: ping?
[04:39] <jbailey> mjg59: Lovely.  I'll retitle 5594 to be that, and deal with it.
[04:40] <sivang> mvo: so you're finishing this work? coool
[04:40] <mjg59> jbailey: The swsusp signature is well-defined - the script should just check for that, and mkswap the partition if it's there
[04:40] <sivang> jbailey: hey jeff :)
[04:40] <jbailey> Heya Sivan
[04:40] <Kamion> fabbione: yes, should be
[04:40] <mvo> ogra: could happen :) but I need to see if speed is acceptable. but it's not wasted work as u-m and g-a-i benefit
[04:41] <ogra> mvo: i guess other (future) tools will too :)
[04:42] <jbailey> mjg59: Great.  I'll tackle this one.  Thanks.
[04:44] <mvo> ogra: it may well be that people will start playing with package-managment interfaces and come up with lot's of new ideas. it's pretty interessting
[04:44] <ogra> yup :)
[04:44] <ogra> sounds very promising
[04:45] <jbailey> enrico: Ping?
[04:45] <pitti> mvo: on warty->hoary upgrade, can we already use system upgrade hooks?
[04:45] <dholbac1> seb128: i'll package gtkmm and bakery later
[04:46] <dholbac1> seb128: but i can do bakery on my own... it's universe
[04:46] <mvo> pitti: no, they depend on a running update-notifier
[04:46] <pitti> mvo: but doesn't the upgrade install u-n?
[04:46] <pitti> mvo: the problem is, on upgrading the user will lose all translations because langpacks aren't installed automatically
[04:46] <pitti> mvo: the upgrade hook would be the perfect place to mark language-pack-$USERLANG as to-be-installed
[04:47] <mvo> pitti: it does, but it won't be started automatically (because I know of no way to add it to the users session automatically). kde can do it btw with /usr/share/autostart (or something like that)
[04:47] <pitti> mvo: ah, but it will be started when the user logs in the next time?
[04:47] <mvo> pitti: we can use it I think (utf8migrator uses them too). but it's not perfect unfortunately
[04:48] <pitti> mvo: after the upgrade, the user has to reboot anyway (new kernel, new gnome, shitload of other new stufff)
[04:48] <mvo> pitti: no, as I said I know of no way to add it to the users session automatically. it needs to be started once and then saved with the session
[04:48] <pitti> ah, I thought you meant the currently running session
[04:48] <mvo> (started once by the user. new users will get it automatically in the default gnome-session)
[04:48] <pitti> hmm
[04:49] <pitti> but then this problem will persist forever
[04:49] <pitti> mvo: no way to start it at least in the next login?
[04:49] <ogra> pitti: lets patch gnome-session ;)
[04:49] <mvo> pitti: I know of no way, any ideas seb128 :) ?
[04:49] <ogra> hehe
[04:50] <mvo> we are a bit late for that but I would do it if needed. it bugs me too :)
[04:50] <pitti> mvo: is "please start u-m" already in the HoaryUpgradeNotes?
[04:50] <enrico> jbailey: yes?
[04:50] <pitti> mvo: better write this one thing into it rather than a long list of things to do in addition
[04:51] <pitti> mvo: and the user will want u-n anyway :-)
[04:51] <mvo> pitti: agreed
[04:51] <jbailey> enrico: I was just digging through the meeting minutes, and I don't see where to actually send release note updates to... =)
[04:51] <mvo> pitti: agreed again :)
[04:51] <enrico> jbailey: ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com
[04:51] <pitti> mvo: so apart from the starting problem, how much effort is it to add this install mark?
[04:51] <jbailey> enrico: Thanks. =)
[04:51] <enrico> jbailey: sorry about the missing info: we just gave it for granted that everyone knew the list address
[04:52] <mvo> pitti: drop a file to /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d :)
[04:52] <jbailey> enrico: No worries.  I keep finding new corners of this distro that I didn't know existed. =)
[04:52] <enrico> (but at the same time, we are the first ones knowing to never give things for granted :)
[04:52] <pitti> mvo: oh, empty...
[04:52] <pitti> mvo: no system.d/ ?
[04:52] <mvo> pitti: the format for the file is: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InteractiveUpgradeHooks/view?searchterm=upgrade%20hooks
[04:52] <jbailey> enrico: I'd almost love to assemble one day a big chart of all of Ubuntu, make it like the JDK charts that sun publishes.  It would be interesting to show just how big the scope is.
[04:53] <mvo> pitti: if it's system-wide, why not use debconf?
[04:53] <pitti> mvo: where?
[04:54] <mvo> pitti: where?
[04:54] <mvo> pitti: oh, where!
[04:54] <pitti> hey, I asked first :-)
[04:54] <mvo> EPARSER
[04:54] <mvo> now I got it
[04:54] <pitti> mvo: we have no packaage to put this into
[04:54] <pitti> s/aa/a/
[04:55] <mvo> pitti: the hooks have the same problem. you drop a file in that dir and the hook is displayed. but the file has to come from somewhere (it's not part of u-n itself)
[04:56] <pitti> hmmm
[04:59] <thom> pitti: please do (moz-locale packages)
[04:59] <thom> lamont: ack?
[04:59] <pitti> thom: ack
[05:00] <thom> pitti: (and thanks)
[05:00] <seb128> mvo, pitti: patches are welcome :p
[05:00] <mvo> seb128: do you think it would be accepted upstream?
[05:01] <lamont> thom: could I get blender build-deps in the chroot on concordia?
[05:01] <seb128> mvo: not sure
[05:04] <thom> lamont: by "the" i take it you mean hoary amd64?
[05:04] <lamont> uh, yeah
[05:04] <lamont> there's others? :-)
[05:05] <thom> dchroot -l
[05:05] <thom> Available chroots: hoary [default] , warty, hoary-i386, hoary-clean, bazaar
[05:05] <thom> ;-)
[05:05] <lamont> yeah, knew that..
[05:05] <lamont> .hrm.. actually, if you're gonna do the other thing, maybe hoary-i386 would be less of an impact on others...
[05:05] <thom> i'm prolly not gonna do the other thing
[05:05] <thom> you can send mail to admins about that
[05:05] <lamont> yeah -figured that much
[05:05] <lamont> lol
[05:05] <fabbione> hey thom
[05:05] <thom> :-)
[05:06] <fabbione> thom: can you please install mplayer build-dep on davis or any ppc chroot in there? even dedicated if you prefer (due to multiverse)
[05:14] <thom> fabbione: meh
[05:14] <thom> lamont: done
[05:15] <fabbione> thom: any direction is fine for me
[05:15] <fabbione> i don't care...
[05:15] <lamont> thanks
[05:15] <dholbac1> i'm packaging bakery2.3, which had the 3 binary packages libbakery-2.3-{common,dev,9}, now ABI broke and i'll have libbakery-2.3-{common,dev,12} around, do i have to Replace: or Conflicts: anything?
[05:18] <GheRivero> res
[05:21] <fabbione> lamont: don't mess up concordia ! :)
[05:21] <metallikop> jdub: are you around?
[05:21] <lamont> fabbione: that's why I have to ponder
[05:21] <lamont> fabbione: that was "the other thing" :-)
[05:21] <fabbione> ehehhe
[05:23] <lamont> doko around?
[05:23] <lamont> nm
[05:25] <dholbac1> bbl
[05:26] <doko> lamont: yes
[05:28] <lamont> thom: found a way.  thanks
[05:31] <thom> fabbione: hoary-multiverse chroot on davis, mplayer build deps installing currently
[05:32] <thully> I've got quite a few outstanding bugs with no comments from others, or at least no activity in a while.  What should I do with these?
[05:32] <thom> thully: show patience
[05:33] <thully> well - some have been around for months - I'm just a bit concerned that they somehow got "lost in the pile" as to speak
[05:33] <seb128> that's a possibility
[05:34] <seb128> you can send patches
[05:35] <thully> I don't really know about GTK and the like, so that isn't really feasible - should I avoid reporting bugs if I can't fix them myself?
[05:35] <seb128> thully: do you have any such bug assigned to me ?
[05:35] <seb128> nop, reporting bug is nice
[05:35] <thully> multiple ones
[05:35] <seb128> if we feel than the bug has to be fixed quickly we do so
[05:36] <thully> like 6 to you and another 6 to thom
[05:36] <seb128> and we don't you just have to wait or to send a patch to help
[05:36] <seb128> give me some URL here, I'll say why there is no reply
[05:37] <thully> 6541
[05:37] <thully> that's the bug #
[05:37] <seb128> that's probably a dup
[05:37] <lamont> thom: grumble.  spoke too soon. :-(
[05:38] <seb128> there is some bugs open about network-admin issue, auto parameters, and network on boot
[05:39] <seb128> that's on my list of stuff to sort
[05:39] <thully> About the spelling bug - I installed with U.S.English, and logging in w/default settings I see this.  Was this fixed recently by any chance (I'm lagging a bit on my dist-upgrades)
[05:39] <seb128> no idea
[05:40] <seb128> that works fine here by picking "American english" in gdm
[05:40] <seb128> I've replied on this one
[05:40] <thully> saw that - I may try a fresh install from preview CD
[05:40] <seb128> perhaps the installer has set a different locale, that's why I've asked if you have the issue with "American english"
[05:41] <thully> Also, I just added a new one assigned to you - MP3 not appearing in Sound Juicer, even with the plugins installed (gstreamer-lame, etc)
[05:41] <seb128> yeah, just read it
[05:41] <seb128> need to try
[05:41] <thully> It used to be there, they just hid it
[05:41] <seb128> I don't read all the bugs, just the ones assigned to me
[05:42] <thully> I saw something in GNOME help on how to add it, but it was some convoluted instructions that shouldn't be needed
[05:43] <thom> thully: but basically, the points are: if we reply, we need more info; generally, if you don't get a reply but the bug remains open, it's just low priority for the developer and will get fixed eventually 
[05:43] <thom> *in general*
[05:43] <thully> Is there anyone here who wants to comment on the overuse of serif fonts in Firefox I've been noticing?  Slashdot is supposed to use Arial or Helvetica, but uses Bitstream Vera Serif (Vera Sans would be nice as a substitution)
[05:44] <HiddenWolf> thully: it's called taste
[05:44] <seb128> usually if I don't reply that's because I don't have an idea on this issue, or that's a details and I don't know what to do about it (like https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6005 for an example)
[05:44] <seb128> that and low priority
[05:44] <thom> thully: way off topic
[05:45] <mdz> egli: please follow up to the bug so that the information is there for everyone, thanks
[05:45] <thully> why is font selection in Ubuntu off topic?  Selecting serif fonts to substitute for Arial seems like a bug...
[05:46] <mdz> pitti: I agree it shouldn't add the locales on upgrade
[05:46] <pitti_laptop> Hi mdz 
[05:46] <thom> thully: does it only occur in ubuntu? with the same fonts, does a mozilla.org binary make the same choices?
[05:46] <mdz> morning
[05:46] <thom> morning mdz
[05:46] <mvo> morning mdz 
[05:46] <fabbione> hey mdz
[05:47] <seb128> hi mdz
[05:47] <fabbione> mdz: did you sleep well?
[05:47] <thully> It occurs in Debian as well - may be more of a freetype bug
[05:47] <mdz> yes, for once
[05:47] <fabbione> that's good
[05:47] <seb128> thully: you can create a profile with gnome-audio-profiles-properties though
[05:48] <seb128> mdz: got my mail with the meeting log for evince ?
[05:48] <mdz> seb128: I just woke up
[05:48] <mdz> oh, yes, that was a few days ago
[05:48] <seb128> that's from saturday :)
[05:48] <seb128> yep
[05:48] <mdz> seb128: I feel the same as in my first email on the subject; I think it would be a mistake to make this change a few weeks before release
[05:48] <seb128> k
[05:49] <mdz> did we not have evince before preview?  I was not aware of it
[05:49] <seb128> can we consider moving it on the CD ?
[05:49] <seb128> it's in universe for some weels
[05:49] <seb128> weeks even
[05:50] <seb128> Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:05:04 +0000
[05:50] <seb128> even
[05:50] <seb128> that's 0.1.0 upload for hoary
[05:50] <thully> seb128: another issue (albeit low priority) why are the GNOME systray applets locked by default?  This makes it harder to customize.
[05:51] <seb128> thully: so you don't drop them by mistake ... there is some bugs in gnome and ubuntu bugzillas about this, not sure about it
[05:51] <seb128> you can read the discussions and comment
[05:51] <thully> OK - I'll close this one
[05:52] <seb128> [Bug 4267]   New: main menu should be locked by default and locking should mean undeleteable
[05:52] <seb128> ie
[05:52] <fabbione> is there anybody working on l-r-m ?
[05:52] <thully> thom: did you see my ACPI bugs - I reported a new one recently suggesting that PPP connections be terminated on suspend
[05:54] <thom> thully: yes, i saw them. 
[05:54] <thully> cced to mjg59
[05:57] <thully> seb128: also, 4749
[05:59] <seb128> I don't have the issue, and I've no idea on it. Need some debugging work, but not a big issue and we don't have a lot of dups for it 
[05:59] <seb128> ie: low priority, will wait
[05:59] <mdz> thully: I told you before that it really isn't necessary (and in fact it's counter-productive) to point out your bug reports on IRC
[06:00] <Kamion> anyone here know how to get e-acute on a Swedish keyboard?
[06:00] <mdz> compose-quote-e?
[06:01] <Kamion> in the console?
[06:01] <mdz> ew
[06:01] <Kamion> apparently it's possible (#7593), just don't know how
[06:02] <thully> OK - sorry about that, there are just a few that have been floating around for months and I'd like to get that bug count down
[06:03] <mdz> thully: we are very close to release, and our focus is on high-impact bugs.  Please don't distract developers from those.  It is unavoidable that there will be bugs remaining in the release, as our resources are finite
[06:03] <Kamion> in any reasonably long-lived project, you'll find bugs that have been open for nearly the lifetime of the project
[06:05] <seb128> who handles dbus bugs ?
[06:05] <seb128> daniels or pitti  ?
[06:05] <thully> sorry - I'm just getting into a bit of an "oh no, if these bugs don't get fixed in Hoary..." frenzy
[06:06] <pitti> seb128: I don't have much knowledge about dbus... (but I can learn)
[06:07] <seb128> pitti: that's not a real dbus issue, https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/6282 ... according the redhat bug that's just an option to pass
[06:09] <pitti> seb128: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=104393&action=view looks easy enough, worth a try
[06:10] <seb128> pitti: yep, that's why I'm looking for the dbus maintainer :)
[06:12] <seb128> dbus-1-utils: /etc/X11/Xsession.d/75dbus-1-utils_dbus-launch
[06:12] <seb128> if [ -n "$STARTDBUS" ] ; then
[06:12] <seb128>   STARTUP="$DBUSLAUNCH --exit-with-session $STARTUP"
[06:12] <seb128> fi
[06:12] <seb128> grumpf
[06:12] <pitti_> so --exit-with-sesion doesn't work
[06:12] <seb128> the package already uses it
[06:12] <thully> Reprioritizing my bugs right now - less normal bugs, more minor bugs now
[06:13] <thully> I guess if I want bug-free, I can always use debian stable :)
[06:13] <fabbione> thully: debian stable is not bug free at all :-)
[06:13] <thully> (except for the factthat I don't even know if it would BOOT on my 6-month old laptop)
[06:13] <svenl> fabbione: BTW, how comes ubuntu carries mplayer and not debian ? 
[06:14] <thully> well, pretty close to bug-free...
[06:14] <mdz> Kamion: do you recall, we had a brief conversation about failing the CD build process if the kernel ABI didn't match between the live fs and d-i
[06:14] <mdz> Kamion: how much work would that be to implement?
[06:14] <thom> thully: not even; it was free from release *critical* bugs
[06:14] <mdz> Kamion: it looks like we're not finished with ABI changes yet
[06:14] <sivang> seb128: what does N_("string") mean for gettext?
[06:14] <mdz> thully: I can say with absolute confidence that Debian stable has more bugs than Hoary
[06:15] <mdz> Hoary main anyway
[06:15] <fabbione> svenl: mplayer is not in main
[06:15] <fabbione> svenl: it's in multiverse
[06:15] <pitti_> mdz: since you asked for notification, all my bugs are well-classified (major/normal)
[06:15] <svenl> fabbione: well, its not in non-free in debian too, so ...
[06:15] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, it's still on my list ... haven't investigated yet
[06:15] <fabbione> svenl: but i needed a break from the kernel on saturday.. so i decided to fix mplayer on amd64 and ppc :-)
[06:15] <mdz> pitti_: thank you
[06:15] <fabbione> svenl: but PPC hates me
[06:16] <svenl> fabbione: ok, can you paste me the url again ? 
[06:16] <fabbione> svenl: sure
[06:16] <svenl> fabbione: BTW, maybe you can help me out on kernel issues.
[06:16] <fabbione> svenl: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/m/mplayer/1:1.0-pre6-0.3ubuntu6/
[06:16] <svenl> fabbione: i am doing a pci_find_device in arch_initcall(mv643xx_eth_add_pds);
[06:16] <fabbione> svenl: i think so.. 
[06:16] <svenl> but it seems it is too early to do pci_find_device, as the pci tree is empty there.
[06:16] <fabbione> svenl: what source are you using? so i can look up with you
[06:17] <mdz> Kamion: perhaps a simpler short-term solution would be to finagle the scheduling so that we don't build CDs between live_fs_build and d_i_byhand
[06:17] <Kamion> mdz: sure, can do
[06:17] <mdz> Kamion: does elmo generally do that at the same time of day?
[06:17] <mdz> (if not, perhaps we could ask that he do so)
[06:17] <svenl> in the debian svn repo kernel/kernel/source/kernel-source-2.6.11-2.6.11/debian/patches/powerpc-mv643xx-eth-pegasos.dpatch
[06:17] <sivang> seb128: btw, where we talking about bug #7370 ? (the meta bug for translation)
[06:18] <fabbione> svenl: ok. i need to check it out.. gimme a few secs
[06:18] <Kamion> mdz: um; I was thinking more of me disabling the cron job while the ABI is known to be in transition
[06:18] <svenl> fabbione: maybe let's move to debian-kernel for that, altough i am preparing this for an upstream upload and patch for ubuntu's 2.6.10 kernel.
[06:18] <fabbione> svenl: or #u-k :-)
[06:18] <fabbione> it doesn't matter for me
[06:19] <fabbione> i am not THAT formal
[06:19] <fabbione> since we sync patches between each other
[06:19] <Kamion> mdz: fiddling the scheduling wouldn't help anyway if nobody remembers to upload debian-installer to account for the ABI change, and since I generally take care of that anyway ...
[06:20] <seb128> sivang: read the bug, if that matches what you are looking for add a comment
[06:20] <seb128> I'm busy
[06:20] <sivang> seb128: sorry, thx
[06:24] <mjg59> thully: Please don't arbitrarily change the severity of bugs
[06:24] <thully> it's not arbirtrary - I'm reprioritizing some bugs
[06:25] <mjg59> If the maintainer hasn't changed the priority when you submitted the bug, and if nothing else has changed, please don't change them
[06:26] <thully> OK - I just was thinking that this was a major issue - but I forgot suspend is going to be disabled bydefault in Hoary
[06:27] <fabbione> thully: the priority/severity of a bug is: 1) at submission time to give an idea to the maintainer about the impact of the problem 2) after that it is maintainer discrection to prioritize/downgrade/upgrade severities
[06:27] <fabbione> the submitter and the maintainer can agree on changing prio/severity
[06:28] <fabbione> failing to agree is NOT good
[06:28] <thully> OK - didn't know that
[06:28] <fabbione> as much as it is to inflate randomically the severity
[06:28] <thully> Is it ok to downgrade your own bugs?
[06:28] <fabbione> downgrade is generally ok, given a very good explanation
[06:28] <thom> thully: please don't private message me; if you need to update a bug, please do so on the bug
[06:30] <enrico> Who should I ask for removal of ubuntu-doc-faqguide from Hoary
[06:30] <enrico> ?
[06:37] <thully> Sorry for the breaches of netiquette - I'm still a bit inexperienced w/dealing with bugzilla bugs and releases.  Also, there is a part of me which gets overexcited when a release is approaching.
[06:37] <doko> mdz: first OOo2 build, based on the m79 milestone (beta2) succeeded, help files build with the build process, java components don't work yet
[06:37] <Kamion> enrico: elmo
[06:37] <GheRivero> res
[06:38] <thully> mjg59: how's ACPI looking for Hoary?  did you get the cc on the PPP w/suspend bug?
[06:38] <enrico> Kamion: thanks.  Same as for removal of that from the Desktop seed?
[06:38] <Kamion> enrico: what seed's it in at the moment?
[06:38] <enrico> (last docteam meeting we decided not to ship it with hoary)
[06:38] <enrico> Kamion: it should be in the desktop seed (if it's in a seed)
[06:39] <Kamion> enrico: generally if it's taken out of a seed, elmo will remove it semi-automatically
[06:39] <mdz> doko: fantastic!  available for i386, powerpc and amd64?
[06:39] <Kamion> so after seed removal, there's no need to hassle him directly unless it's urgent
[06:39] <enrico> Kamion: ok, no, it's not urgend.  Who should I ask for seed removal?
[06:39] <doko> heh, I said, build, not package ... ;) we need some infrastructure updates ...
[06:40] <Simira> hi enrico. What's up?
[06:40] <enrico> Simira: hi!
[06:40] <enrico> Simira: just normal administration :)
[06:40] <Simira> enrico: lot's, then, eh? :)
[06:41] <enrico> Simira: :)
[06:41] <enrico> Simira: I'm mainly busy with my main work these days
[06:41] <Simira> enrico: for a change? :)
[06:41] <enrico> But now, as soon as Kamion tells me about removing ubuntu-docs-faqguide from the desktop seed, I'll go and take a shower
[06:42] <enrico> Kamion: you're now responsible for my personal hygiene :)
[06:42] <doko> gcc-3.4 needs an update to the recent branch from the CVS, as well as gcc-4.0. both look uncritical to me, but who knows. I'd like to get a i386 chroot, where these updates can be installed (and built faster than on my current i386 build machine).
[06:43] <pitti_> doko: hoary-i386 on concordia has the gcc dependencies
[06:43] <Simira> enrico: scary :p I'm planning to translate the installer to Norwegian, starting to look at it today.
[06:43] <Kamion> enrico: do you not have a chinstrap account?
[06:44] <enrico> Kamion: no, I don't.
[06:44] <Kamion> oh, ok
[06:44] <Kamion> enrico: I'll do it now
[06:44] <enrico> Kamion: ok, thanks a lot!
[06:48] <doko> pitti: which dependencies?
[07:06] <svenl> fabbione: would that mplayer build also on my debian box ? 
[07:06] <bluefoxicy> openoffice.org 1.1.3 seems to bitch about 20-30 times on saving an ooimpress file the first time each load, then works fine
[07:07] <bluefoxicy> so it's like
[07:07] <fabbione> svenl: i think it should yes
[07:07] <fabbione> otherwise you can just do it in a chroot
[07:07] <svenl> fabbione: COOL.
[07:07] <svenl> fabbione: mmm, caps went on for some obscure reason.
[07:07] <bluefoxicy> new presentation or open, edit, save, OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK saving..., edit, save, edit, save, close, exit, ooimpress, open, edit, save, OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK, saving..., edit, save...
[07:08] <bluefoxicy> And as stated before, ooimpress for 1.9.74 is busted and 1.9.79 has the fix, so the OOo2 betas need updating  badly.
[07:09] <bluefoxicy> of course those are just universe
[07:09] <bluefoxicy> (NO workaround for 1.9.74)
[07:11] <bluefoxicy> is OOo2 planned for Hoary still if it makes it out?
[07:11] <bluefoxicy> the UI is much better than that aweful hell that is OOo
[07:11] <Kamion> 17:37 < doko> mdz: first OOo2 build, based on the m79 milestone (beta2) succeeded, help files build with the build process, java components don't work yet
[07:12] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  thanks.
[07:12] <Kamion> folks are working on it; if it makes it then it may still be a candidate for Hoary
[07:13] <bluefoxicy> *nod* I still hate the OOWriter UI, but it has integrated windows instead of junk floating around i.e. to pick styles from, so it's "better"
[07:13] <bluefoxicy> so that would be good
[07:20] <mdz> doko: email admins to get an account on the porting box
[07:20] <mdz> doko: CC me
[07:21] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  I removed oowriter, oocalc, oodraw, but I can't seem to remove openoffice.org2 base
[07:21] <bluefoxicy> I don't need a database editor
[07:23] <Kamion> I'm sorry I can't help you
[07:23] <bluefoxicy> no ideas huh.
[07:23] <Kamion> well you specifically asked a guy who has no clue about OOo :)
[07:24] <bluefoxicy> :)
[07:24] <Kamion> direct questions to the channel unless you really mean that one person ...
[07:24] <bluefoxicy> well, uhh, same question, for all :)
[07:25] <crimsun> why can't you?
[07:25] <pitti> doko: build-deps
[07:25] <crimsun> sudo aptitude remove openoffice.org2 ?
[07:27] <bluefoxicy> crimsun:  can't find it
[07:27] <bluefoxicy> crimsun:  I just want to remove the database part
[07:28] <bluefoxicy> apt-get remove openoffice.org2-writer
[07:28] <bluefoxicy> :) drops oowriter2
[07:31] <crimsun> I'm guessing -core or -common
[07:32] <Treenaks> mjg59: ping?
[07:33] <mjg59> Treenaks: Hi
[07:35] <mvo> crimsun: I'm catching up with the ML right now. is gdeb fully working again? or are there still problems after my upload (a couple of days ago)?
[07:38] <crimsun> mvo: to be honest, dunno - I was just responding to a request to "make it work again"
[07:38] <crimsun> mvo: afaik, your upload works fine
[07:38] <mvo> crimsun: ok, thanks
[07:39] <crimsun> back after lunch
[07:40] <Treenaks> mjg59: see #7651
[07:40] <Treenaks> mjg59: (about the "Panic buttons" I have :))
[07:43] <mdz> jbailey: ping, re: #1080
[07:43] <mjg59> Treenaks: Oh, christ, that's horrible
[07:44] <mjg59> Treenaks: I think you're going to need a better kernel hacker than me to track that down. 
[07:44] <mjg59> Disabling preempt would probably work, but it's not clear to me why it's exploding like that
[07:45] <Treenaks> mjg59: ok.. though it does say "es1968_update_hw_volume" somewhere -- which is exactly what it should be doing :)
[07:45] <Treenaks> I'll wait for fabbione to read the report & explode ;)
[07:45] <thom> mjg59: any comment on #7029? is doing a vbetool resume reasonable if we can? or is it likely to explode horrifically most of the time?
[07:45] <mjg59> Actually, no, that's probably a driver bug - it's scheduling while it's in an IRQ handler, which is amazingly broken
[07:47] <mjg59> thom: Argh. No, that'll explode.
[07:47] <thom> 'swhat i thought
[07:47] <mdz> thom: do you have an ETA for the firefox upload?
[07:48] <thom> mdz: wednesday
[07:48] <thom> mdz: as i said saturday morning, i'm gonna take the opp. to nail down some more bugs while i have the time
[07:49] <mdz> thom: it's important to get the new code in as soon as possible if we're going to do it
[07:49] <thom> yup
[07:54] <mjg59> Treenaks: Ok. I /think/ the msleep()s in the es1968 code are dangerous and shouldn't be there
[07:56] <Treenaks> mjg59: I can't reach the laptop now (it's at my parents' place)
[07:58] <mjg59> Treenaks: Ok. I think you want to take that function and s/msleep/mdelay/
[07:58] <Treenaks> what's the difference?
[08:00] <mjg59> mdelay can be called in IRQ handlers
[08:00] <mjg59> msleep says Come back to me in this much time, mdelay says Wait for this much time
[08:01] <Treenaks> ah ok
[08:11] <mdz> doko: by admins, I meant admins@admins
[08:12] <Treenaks> mjg59: vanilla 2.6.11 has the msleep(1) calls commented out..
[08:12] <mdz> doko: elmo doesn't seem to be around right now; is it impossible for you to do the work on your local machine?  it is important to get it into the archive soon
[08:14] <mjg59> Treenaks: Haha
[08:14] <mjg59> Treenaks: Does the Ubuntu 2.6.11 kernel work?
[08:15] <doko> mdz: I continue, but a OOo build takes 9hours + 1/2 for every language
[08:15] <mjg59> (Oh, though it's not actually 2.6.11, so it may not have that code...)
[08:15] <Treenaks> mjg59: can't test now
[08:15] <mjg59> Treenaks: Ok, could you add that to the bug report?
[08:15] <mdz> doko: how much of that is source code?  are you using ccache?
[08:16] <Treenaks> mjg59: done already :)
[08:16] <doko> mdz: ccache doesn't help yet, if I rebuild gcc
[08:16] <mdz> doko: rebuild gcc?
[08:16] <mdz> between oo.o builds?
[08:17] <bluefoxicy> Am I the only one who has a koffice workspace icon in his gnome menu?
[08:17] <doko> sure, to fix ICE's
[08:17] <mdz> wonderful, ICEs :-/
[08:17] <mdz> I thought you said it built OK?
[08:17] <doko> yes, now :)
[08:18] <bluefoxicy> 9 hours o.o
[08:18] <bluefoxicy> doko:  just curious, what hardware are you using to build that on
[08:19] <doko> athlon 2400
[08:19] <bluefoxicy> ah
[08:21] <bluefoxicy> I got to play with a $6000 machine the other day, it had a $1000 AthlonFX chip in it.  Had to install spyware removal stuff and tons of apps on it.  Unfortunately, $6000 machines are out of the reach of open source projects :/
[08:21] <bluefoxicy> that thing ate SP2 in 8 minutes (it took my uncle's new sempron an hour or two) though.
[08:23] <bluefoxicy> lol
[08:23] <bluefoxicy> mdz:  why don't you have an Athlon FX socket 939 with 1G ram that can build gentoo in 1-2 hours then ;)
[08:24] <Treenaks> bluefoxicy: all of gentoo?
[08:24] <Mithrandir> I won't be getting a FX55 since nobody is able to sell them to me :(
[08:24] <Mithrandir> only an XP4000+
[08:24] <dredg> bluefoxicy: what? then the compile text will scroll too fast for me to learn anything from
[08:24] <dredg> that *is* how people learn linux, right?
[08:24] <Treenaks> dredg: partly :)
[08:24] <Treenaks> dredg: I learned to debug other people's C code that way :)
[08:25] <dredg> Treenaks: oh good. gentoo seems like the best learning distro then
[08:25] <bluefoxicy> Treenaks: on my 2800+ amd64 I build gentoo in 10 hours, with gnome, abiword, gnumeric, xchat, gaim, xmms, xorg, firefox, gqview, thunderbird, gtk-gnutella, gimp, dia, vim, and vorbis tools in 10 hours
[08:25] <Hannes_> ;P
[08:26] <bluefoxicy> it took 29 hours fastest clock-in on my 1.8GHz barton core 2400+ (the 2800+ clawhammer is 1.8G)
[08:26] <bluefoxicy> it cost me almost exactly $255 to upgrade XD
[08:27] <dredg> i know it has 512M ram, and i know it's an AMD something chip...
[08:27] <bluefoxicy> but yeah, 9 hours is too much time to waste to build something you're not 100% sure is gonna build
[08:27] <bluefoxicy> debugging could take weeks/months
[08:27] <Treenaks> dredg: reading debian-bugs-dist helps too :)
[08:28] <dredg> but i really stopped paying attention to spec after machines were just good enough (tm)
[08:28] <dredg> Treenaks: sounds like a lot of effort. can i not just install gentoo and then tell eveyone that i'm leet?
[08:29] <bluefoxicy> dredg:  install Hardened Gentoo ;)
[08:29] <Treenaks> dredg: if you can keep up with debian-bugs-dist, you're even more leet :)
[08:29] <zul> no you cant its not aloud
[08:29] <dredg> bluefoxicy: nah, i'm only kidding. i like actually using my computers :)
[08:29] <bluefoxicy> so do I :p
[08:29] <dredg> Treenaks: there aren't enough hours in the day
[08:30] <Treenaks> dredg: exactvly, and you'll know C by the time you catch up :P
[08:30] <bluefoxicy> dredg:  I just decided it was time to expand out.  I'm still not satisfied with ubuntu's security but I'm interested in seeing how it progresses.
[08:30] <dredg> Treenaks: technically, i already know C *shrug* it's just been about 7 years since i used it is all :)
[08:31] <bluefoxicy> (if you didn't figure out already, I like running high-high-high security, just as a point of properness; I'm not really at risk of attacks)
[08:31] <dredg> bluefoxicy: what's wrong with ubuntu's security? how does spending time rebuilding apps with patches and then rebuilding everything that depends on them make you more secure?
[08:32] <zul> dredg: well you are always down for one :)
[08:32] <bluefoxicy> dredg:  I ran with a PIE base, ProPolice, and PaX/GrSecurity.  The Hardened Gentoo guys put a lot of effort into their work ;)
[08:32] <dredg> zul: :)
[08:32] <dredg> bluefoxicy: did you audit this yourself?
[08:33] <dredg> bluefoxicy: i'm not starting a religious war here, i'm just cusrious
[08:33] <dredg> curious too
[08:33] <bluefoxicy> dredg:  Overall I think you could run that on like, a 486 without noticing any slowdown; definitely no administrative or user end learning curve increase
[08:33] <bluefoxicy> though mostp eople look at PIE or SSP or PaX and go "OMFG OVERHEAD" like they're constantly bumping 100% CPU or something
[08:33] <dredg> and didn't PaX/grsec have a bunch of massive holes in it recently?
[08:34] <bluefoxicy> PaX had a massive VMA mirroring bug that created a definite local root exploit, but it was fixed
[08:34] <bluefoxicy> however, that was implementation
[08:34] <bluefoxicy> the design was not compromised; the concept of VMA mirroring is not inherantly insecure, best proven by pointing out that the bug was fixed.
[08:35] <dredg> fixing a bug does not prove the inherent security of something.
[08:35] <bluefoxicy> (in the same way that passwords are not inherantly insecure; but bob wrote his on his monitor with a sharpie, which was bad)
[08:35] <bluefoxicy> dredg: no, it definitely does not; but there is nothing that indicates that vma mirroring is inherantly insecure
[08:36] <bluefoxicy> at least not any more insecure than the basic paging logic of the x86 CPU itself is.
[08:36] <zul> guys you might want to take this somewhere else
[08:36] <bluefoxicy> dt was a bug in the way he was unmapping pages; basicalyl you could unmap a page without having it cleaned up, and have it mapped into another application as-is, thus you could inject code
[08:36] <dredg> nah, i'm done now
[08:36] <bluefoxicy> heh, yeah.
[08:36] <dredg> i was just curious. i didn't expect a story
[08:36] <bluefoxicy> I talk a lot :)
[08:59] <mdz> who here uses irssi?
[08:59] <Kamion> me
[08:59] <mdz> -> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6893
[09:00] <Kamion> but my irssi runs on a woody box ...
[09:00] <helix> oh
[09:00] <Kamion> mdz: I don't see that problem in woody, even. I suppose it *could* have regressed ...
[09:01] <mdz> Kamion: irssi-text is a console program, right?  I wonder if they're running it on the bare console and it's a consolefont problem
[09:01] <helix> ask them what term_type is set to
[09:01] <helix> it needs to be set to utf8
[09:02] <mdz> helix: thanks
[09:03] <helix> there are lots of places for it to screw up though
[09:03] <helix> if they use it in screen, for example
[09:03] <mdz> yeah, you need to tweak another knob in screen to make it vaguely utf8-aware, right?
[09:04] <Kamion> C-a :utf8 on # works for me
[09:04] <Kamion> although I also have 'defutf8 on' in ~/.screenrc
[09:04] <[Clint] > or :utf8 on on
[09:04] <thom> yep; or run screen with -U
[09:04] <[Clint] > depending
[09:04] <Kamion> again, that's on woody
[09:04] <thom> my screen/irssi is on freebsd, so i also can't confirm either way
[09:05] <Kamion> enrico: you said both ubuntu-doc-faqguide and ubuntu-docs-faqguide earlier; the only similar package I can find is ubuntu-faqguide. Confirm?
[09:05] <thom> 
[09:06] <[Clint] > my screen/irssi is on openbsd, so it's inherently more secure
[09:06] <thom> ok, that musical note showed fine running it in console on hoary
[09:07] <helix> [Clint] : heh
[09:07] <helix> mdz: yeah, there are several ways to make it use utf8 (screen)
[09:07] <thom> [Clint] : :rolls eyes:
[09:08] <[Clint] > lack of locales is fun
[09:11] <GheRivero> res
[09:14] <pitti> sivang: I'm back (network outage, modem now); any news?
[09:16] <mdz> fabbione: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7586
[09:16] <mdz> fabbione: I'm closing as universe, but FYI
[09:18] <mdz> Kamion: what's your feeling on #4271?
[09:23] <ogra> oh, gpm is in universe ? has it ever been there ?
[09:23] <ogra> s/ever/always
[09:24] <mdz> ogra: the gpm source package is in main, but the gpm binary package is in universe
[09:25] <ogra> ah, k
[09:25] <mdz> serial mice are better dealt with through the kernel input layer; that is how we unify ps/2 and usb
[09:25] <mdz> ogra: since you're here, hwdb status? ;-)
[09:26] <ogra> found a process to handle the sound and network device names, will upload the changes after my hacking session tonight
[09:27] <ogra> the send part now has a check for the server and will throw a "no server found message" so we wont recieve bugs about that (i hope)
[09:29] <ogra> which means i can start improvement and implement the changes we talked about tomorrow :)
[09:31] <HiddenWolf> ogra: tomorrow? :P
[09:31] <ogra> with a little luck its all done by next weekend....
[09:31] <HiddenWolf> ogra: your grammar is seriously messy. ;)
[09:32] <ogra> yup, didnt sleep tonight, had a very hard day cleaning my last stuff with my company (they will pay me until end of month but i dont have to work for them anymore)
[09:34] <ogra> so please forgive my broken grammar, will be better tomorrow again :)
[09:35] <Mithrandir> mdz: if there is a package in NEW in Debian which I would very much like in Ubuntu (even though just universe), is there any way to get it?
[09:36] <mdz> Mithrandir: you can simply upload it, assuming you can get a copy from elsewhere
[09:36] <Mithrandir> mdz: ok, I'll do that, then.
[09:37] <Mithrandir> just a normal upload, no ubuntu1 revision?
[09:37] <mdz> ogra: it sounds like once you have the above fixes packaged, we can add it to desktop
[09:37] <ogra> yay
[09:37] <mdz> ogra: we need to do that as soon as possible to get more testing; when can you have that package uploaded?
[09:38] <HiddenWolf> ogra: you're forgiven
[09:38] <mdz> Mithrandir: in order to do it without the diff and dsc being different, you need to craft a .changes by hand or semi-byhand
[09:38] <Mithrandir> mdz: change the distribution, you mean?
[09:38] <ogra> as is said above, the send part and device name part is in tomorrow, the additional changes will take a day extra
[09:38] <Mithrandir> or anything else?
[09:38] <mdz> Mithrandir: if you have a .changes available, you can just change the distribution, yes
[09:38] <mdz> and re-sign if necessary
[09:39] <Mithrandir> yeah
[09:39] <Mithrandir> (it's mcelog, which is used for decoding machine check exceptions; fairly useful for amd64 stuff)
[09:46] <bluefoxicy> dredg:  http://usrbac.sourceforge.net/misc/sec_presentation.sxi
[09:48] <pitti> amu: btw, does kdeedu contain this setuid program (fliccd) or did you already remove this?
[09:49] <ficusplanet> In hoary's final release, will gnome-app-install include apps from universe (if universe if enabled)?  The current selection seems to skimpy to be useful.
[09:50] <amu> pitti: was not set :) 
[09:50] <pitti> amu: relieving, thanks :-)
[09:51] <amu> pitti: thanks for reminding me, i didnt check it in the new version :) 
[09:54] <mdz> jbailey: ayt?
[09:55] <jbailey> mdz: Yup!
[09:55] <mdz> ficusplanet: the selection is small for the very reason that a complete list would be useless
[09:55] <mdz> jbailey: how is #1080 coming?
[09:56] <ficusplanet> mdz, I understand that a complete list wouldn't be good.  But I think it would be reasonable to include popular software like muine and rhythmbox in the list.
[09:56] <zul> later
[09:56] <bluefoxicy> muine?
[09:56] <bluefoxicy> since when does mono work
[09:57] <jbailey> mdz: Alright.  I've got the xmlrpc stuff into libsoup now, and it works well.  I'm organising my pieces into a libbugzilla thing so that it doesn't get too ugly inside.
[09:57] <jbailey> mdz: I've submitted the bugzilla patch upstream to them too, so that it's there.
[09:57] <mdz> jbailey: do you have an ETA?  RC is getting awfully close
[09:57] <ficusplanet> bluefoxicy, I've been using muine since it was released, and it's worked practically flawlessly.
[09:57] <mdz> ficusplanet: yes, rhythmbox should definitely be there, and that will be added
[09:57] <mdz> ficusplanet: but we don't plan to add unsupported packages to that list
[09:58] <ficusplanet> mdz, OK.  Thanks for the info.
[09:58] <seb128> jbailey: with the xml-rpc stuff we will get all the bug buddy bugs in bugzilla.ubuntu.com ?
[09:58] <jbailey> mdz: I keep wanting to say that it'll be right there, and then I keep hitting stupid stumbling blocks.  I'm also trying to make sure that I service the other bugs in my set too.
[09:58] <jbailey> seb128: Yes.
[09:58] <seb128> doh
[09:59] <seb128> I'm wondering how we will handle the GNOME bugs
[09:59] <jbailey> In what way?
[10:00] <mdz> well, for one, we have no way to contact the submitter for more information :-/
[10:00] <mdz> seb128: I think we should probably categorize them somehow
[10:00] <mdz> they will only be useful in order to see common crashes and things like that
[10:00] <seb128> yeah, but according to upstream that's a lot
[10:03] <mdz> seb128: we can't simply discard the reports; this apparently makes users upset :-)
[10:03] <mdz> seb128: if we get a huge number of bugs, we can do some automation to make it manageable
[10:03] <seb128> I'm not saying that we should not
[10:04] <seb128> hum, wrong shortkey :p
[10:04] <seb128> I'm not saying that we should not do it
[10:04] <seb128> that's just that's not easy to keep with the bug flood atm
[10:05] <seb128> with bug-buddy that'll get funny to handle
[10:14] <Nafallo> mdz: ping?
[10:15] <Nafallo> mdz: nm ;-)
[10:16] <mdz> seb128: we can auto-assign all of the bug-buddy bugs to a special address or something, if necessary
[10:16] <seb128> isn't it a plan to make a gnome-bugs-list or something ?
[10:17] <Nafallo> mdz: anything more than the output of locale for #6894?
[10:17] <jbailey> mdz: Hey, you mentioned having an amd64, right?
[10:26] <dholbach> i'm packaging bakery2.3, which had the 3 binary packages libbakery-2.3-{common,dev,9}, now ABI broke and i'll have libbakery-2.3-{common,dev,12} around, do i have to Replace: or Conflicts: anything?
[10:27] <crimsun> libbakery-2.3-12 needs to Conflicts: libbakery-2.3-9
[10:27] <dholbach> Replaces?
[10:27] <pitti> dholbach: no, it seems to have a new SONAME, so it should be okay
[10:27] <crimsun> oh, it has a new soname completely? nevermind.
[10:28] <pitti> dholbach: however, please make sure that the *.so file actually has the SONAME in its name :-)
[10:28] <pitti> huh, why?
[10:29] <pitti> the two libraries can be installed in parallel
[10:29] <mdz> jbailey: I have local access to i386, powerpc and amd64
[10:29] <Mithrandir> dholbach: you don't need to conflict or replace or anything if you don't have file overlaps.
[10:29] <dholbach> pitti: you're right... they are
[10:29] <mdz> Nafallo: please keep bug communication in bugzilla; I have a few hundred more bugs to deal with and cannot discuss them all interactively on IRC
[10:29] <dholbach> Mithrandir: ack
[10:29] <jbailey> mdz: Can I get you to test something for me a bit later?  I have a sable bug that claims exec stack troubles that I can't reproduce.  But it was reported on amd64 and I don't have access to one at all.
[10:29] <mdz> jbailey: ok
[10:30] <mdz> jbailey: there are also several other people in here (probably less busy) who could help
[10:30] <Nafallo> mdz: oki. I already sent it :-).
[10:30] <crimsun> dholbach: right, hence my "nevermind" :-)
[10:32] <dholbach> thanks pitta, Mithrandir, crimsun  :-)
[10:32] <dholbach> pitti
[10:32] <Mithrandir> hiya dholbach
[10:46] <enrico> Kamion: yes, ubuntu-faqguide
[10:59] <pitti> mdz: may I break libc again for hoary?
[11:02] <pitti> mdz: I optimized the locale lookup in libc6 "a bit" (factor 35), and the patch is easy
[11:16] <mdz> pitti: can I see the patch?
[11:17] <pitti> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/glibc-lookup.patch
[11:18] <pitti> mdz: it also fixes install-language-locales, I want to do this in one upload
[11:18] <ogra> seb128 ?
[11:18] <pitti> mdz: the previous version sorted the file, which scrambled comments and other stuff (people complained about this)
[11:18] <pitti> mdz: however, I'm still testing the new libc currently
[11:19] <seb128> ogra: here
[11:19] <ogra> seb128, could you have a look here ? i think the guy is wrong, seems he advises to add vfolders: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GnomeMenuEditingHowTo
[11:20] <ogra> seb128, i understodd they dropped them completely, or are there remainig bits ?
[11:21] <seb128> he describes the warty menu system
[11:21] <ogra> yup, thats what i thought, sigh....
[11:22] <ogra> i posted about 10 times the link to the f.d.o standards to the list, nobody seems to read me :(
[11:22] <ogra> seb128, thanks for the help, i'll care for it further
[11:23] <seb128> np
[11:24] <sm> doh.. guess I shouldn't have forwarded that link just now
[11:25] <ogra> sm: heh, you are simon ?
[11:25] <sm> yup, hi
[11:25] <ogra> sm, i'm just replying :)
[11:26] <sm> thx
[11:31] <pitti> mdz: please forget the patch for now, it doesn't work correctly
[11:31] <mdz> pitti: ok
[11:38] <_d4vid> hi all
[11:46] <dholbach> seb128: gtkmm2.4-2.6.1 on http://ubuntu.gplan.info/mm  ;-P
[11:46] <seb128> k