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froudAfrican Greetings06:44
Burgundaviahaven't done that bittorrent stuff06:53
Burgundaviabeen busy06:53
Burgundaviawill do tomorrow06:53
froudI'm sure you will fit it in somewhere06:54
froudIf you find you have a problem, let us know and we will put it back out for adoption06:54
Burgundaviahad a dnd convention today06:54
froudwhat's a dnd convention?06:58
Burgundaviadungeons and dragons06:58
froudah ha06:58
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eglienrico: I'm reading the meeting notes. lol. Sean and Corey made up :-)10:09
enricoegli: yup yup! :)10:10
egligood to have froud back10:10
egliand good notes btw10:11
enricoegli: back, and super-active10:11
enricoegli: thanks10:11
egliseems like a trivial patch to yelp that tolef did10:11
enricoindeed.  But I guess that wasn't easy to find10:12
egliseems like a lot of problems in yelp could be solved if you speak xsl10:12
eglimaybe I should look at the source once. Maybe there is more of these one-liner fixes :-)10:12
enricowell, appearently there are not many other major issues to be fixed at the momnet10:13
enricobut you're always very welcome to look at yelp's code and find improvements!10:14
egliah, too bad :-/. Yes, will try to look at it10:14
eglifroud was talking about yelp issues. Apparently for these issues he wants to move to a html based solution10:15
enricohe's mainly worried about yelp-specific extensions to DocBook that would render our sources problematic with other viewers10:16
egliah, ok. I understand. Probably makes soense10:18
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mdkenew wiki page at GnomeMenuEditingHowTo, please add/correct etc :)04:15
jjessegrin thanks i too would love to be able edit the gnome menu as well04:16
mdkeit is not entirely easy04:18
mdkehowto is copied from gnome.org04:18
mdkeso you can trust it04:18
mdkehi jjesse btw we haven't met i don't think04:18
mdkei am matt04:18
sivangmdke: woo onice, I didn't know the menu editor was put back to 2.10 ?04:21
sivangthe next development version?04:22
mdkeyes there is no menu editor in 2.1004:22
mdkeunless some user writes one and submits it (see the ubuntu bug linked on that wiki page)04:22
jjessei just joined the group04:26
jjessemy name is jonathan, posted once or twice on the mailing group04:26
mdkejjesse, yeah saw. I have also just joined.04:27
mdkeam just wiki gardening atm04:27
jjessegrin i'm just trying to understand things right now :)04:27
jjessei did one wiki on how to upgrade from warty to hoary: HoaryUpgradeNotes04:29
mdkeah cool04:30
mdkekeep an eye on it because it may change as bugs are squashed04:30
mdkejjesse, i'm gonna add a quick item on the language-pack upgrade04:32
mdkeuseful wiki page that04:35
mdkejjesse, btw if you want numbered lists, you have to use 0., then 0. on the next line, then 0. (etc)04:35
jjesseah thanks, it was the first wiki page i have done04:40
jjessenod i am keeping an eye on it04:40
jjessesoon will upgrade other box to hoary and see if the experience chanages or improves04:40
mdkethat will be a very useful wiki page04:40
jjessethanks again04:40
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jjessethanks mdke for the update05:01
jjesseand correcting my formating :)05:01
mdkei'm not great at formatting either05:03
mdkeits a bit weird05:03
mdkeand there is a huge bug with bullet points05:03
mdkebut for guidance see HelpOnEditing05:03
mdkehi froud wb05:15
jjessecool i'll checkout that page05:15
=== froud is hacking docs
mdkefroud, do you have time for a quick question?05:18
=== froud announces availability of KDE for Ubuntu Installation in https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu
froudmdke: yep05:18
mdkei am slightly confused about the structure of docs in yelp. if I open "help" in hoary, I get 4 options05:18
mdkebut the sub-sections under those options are not organised in a logical way05:19
mdkeis this temporary?05:19
froudyou are right05:19
froudfirst problem is we need a top level category for ubuntu docs05:19
froudthe order of the docs is auto 05:19
mdkebut maybe the quickguide could go under applications05:20
froudI think one of the devs was looking at that05:20
froudI am not sure how to make categories05:20
froudbut yes we can move it05:20
mdkeat the moment it is really shocking: the quickguide and others are hidden under "other docs"05:20
mdkealong with some really random stuff05:21
froudyes, that's why we want a top level05:21
mdkeyeah totally05:21
mdkeit'll get sorted out before release right?05:21
froudit was discussed during the meeting.05:21
froudenrico: needs to ping someone05:22
froudmdke: btw if you want things to do you can feel free to start on the Admin Guide05:23
froudor any other doc for that matter05:24
jjesseis the admin guide even started?05:24
=== froud wonders if anyone read his post on round tripping
mdkefroud, at the moment i will stay on wiki pages. when my exams are finished, I will learn docbook and get involved05:24
froudThere is an outline05:24
froud:-) no worries05:24
jjessei guess i have just looked at the wikis so far, haven't had time to learn docbook05:25
froudIt's easier than you think05:25
mdkei have never used subversion either05:25
mdkei've installed it and will play with it05:25
enricofroud: my ping list is:05:26
froudOh no, enrico wrote a good step by step that will help you then05:26
jjesseive used cvs more then subversion they are similar?05:26
enricofroud: jdub for his reviewing of the quickguide05:26
=== froud goes off to find it
enricofroud: jdub for putting the docs inthe yelp toc05:26
frouddong that's the one05:26
enricoI pinged him today, he said he's busy and he'll get back to me soonish05:26
mdkefroud, yes i saw that05:27
=== froud comes back with ste-by-step http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepRepository
mdkefroud, its great05:27
mdkeciao enrico 05:28
froudIt's a transscript taken from 30 minutes teaching Liz05:28
froudbtw where is our linux chick05:28
froudenrico: I am gonna see if I can convert FAQ Guide to DOCTYPE FAQ05:29
enricofroud: cool!05:30
=== enrico goes out to buy carrots and zucchini
mdkecourgettes please!05:31
froudand coffee all round while you're at it05:31
mdkei really need to buy some coffee05:32
mdkeand a machine05:32
mdkethe "i don't need coffee" idea is running a bit thin05:32
froudcaffiene, nicotien and screen radition is all we need to live05:33
mdkenot me05:33
mdkei need food05:33
froudfood is a nusance05:34
froudhav eto get out from between the keyboard and the seat to take it05:34
mdkeonly to cook05:35
mdkeeating in front of the computer is ok05:35
mdke4 hands might be an advantage tho05:35
froudnah I am liable to spill ketup or something gross into the keyboard05:36
mdkeit happens...05:37
froudimagine mashed patatoe between the keys05:37
froudsquish, squish for the next week05:37
froudHey I am off to covert faq guide05:37
froudc ya later05:37
mdkeanyone know why the HowTo page was wiped?05:49
froudHowTo What?05:49
mdkethe HowTo wiki page sorry05:49
froudnope never used it05:50
mdkelooks like the last 10 diffs are all blank too05:50
=== froud points across the room
mdkelast 2005:50
froudperhaps it never was05:50
mdkeapparently it was05:51
=== froud goes back to porting
mdkeanyone all those upper level docs need some rehashing05:51
mdkewiki docs*05:51
froudenrico: it's ok if I commit the change back to trunk right. I mean we decided not to ship ubuntu-faqguide06:05
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enricofroud: yes, I06:29
enricofroud: yes, I'd say go on06:29
froudk if it is a problem I will branch06:30
enricofroud: nono: that's not to be shipped with Hoary anyway06:30
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=== froud announces that faq guide is not ported to use docbook q and a. HEAD is not valid yet. XREFs need to be fixed. Anyone wanting to have a stab at fixing it is welcome. I will pick it up again tomorrow. enjoy.
froudopps is now07:42
froudoops is now07:42
=== froud needs sleep
froudc ya later07:42
mdkenight night07:42
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jjessehey mat thanks for making more changes to my wiki post08:09
mdkei just changed it once08:10
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jjessehmm someone else must have made some changes named mat as i just got two emails saying mat zimmerman just made changes08:13
mdkejjesse, you get emails saying when people make changes?08:15
mdkematt z is basically the boss of ubuntu ;)08:15
jjessenod i'm subscribed to the posts i have made on the wiki08:15
jjesseand it emails me when they get changed08:16
mdkejjesse, how do you do that?08:16
jjesseon the wiki there is a tab labeled "subscribe"08:16
jjesseand i can subscribe to the ones that i want to i guess08:17
mdkesm, in here shhhh08:17
mdkesm, i'm logged in08:17
mdkeinsufficient privileges08:17
smhi all08:17
mdkejjesse, thanks08:17
jjessenp mdke08:17
mdke"subscribe to whole wiki"08:18
smmdke: how about now ? don't forget to shift-reload, just in case cache interferes08:18
jjessesubscribe to that page should be on the left side?08:18
mdkejjesse, yeah08:19
mdkesm, still no08:19
smstill bad eh.. one sec08:19
mdkebtw sm this is jjesse 08:20
smshould be ok now08:20
smjjesse has infiltrated mdke's brain ? oh no08:20
mdkesm, bingo thanks08:20
mdkei mean, meet jjesse 08:20
smhello jjesse08:21
smmdke: it's missing some info since we haven't enabled page rating08:21
mdkejust as well ;)08:21
smso you'll link those eh08:22
mdkeif you want me to i will08:22
smdoes it make sense ?08:22
smI think so08:22
smotherwise we'll never remember them08:22
mdkei've bookmarked em too08:22
smand they're not too expensive if robots hit them08:23
mdkethe pagesbyType one is very good08:23
mdkesm, the icons won't be long i think08:23
mdkei'll do some more now08:24
smif you are doing a lot of editing you may want to try the fast skin and an external editor08:24
mdkeoh ok08:24
mdkei'll try08:24
mdkesm, is that zwiki theme you mean?08:25
mdkesm, whats the difference?08:26
mdkeoh i see08:27
smfaster, & normal size fonts08:27
mdkeoh that's soooo much better08:27
smyou're welcome08:27
mdkeomg that should be the only skin08:28
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smhas anyone seen a doc for how to enable the full debian menu ?08:32
mdkei saw it in a bug report08:35
Kinnisonit's something like "apt-get install menu-xdg" but I could be wrong08:36
mdkemaybe i will add it to https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GnomeMenuEditingHowTo08:36
mdkeyou can use applications:/// in nautilus for warty. Hoary/GNOME 2.10 will08:37
mdkeprobably not have a graphical editor. You can install menu/menu-xdg to have a08:37
mdkedebian submenu with all the suff installed.08:37
jjessegrin ok i was gone for a bit did i miss anything :)08:38
jjesseand who got in my brain?08:39
mdkesm, in that skin on the wiki editing page, it links to HelpPage#editing. Is there any chance of getting that changed to HelpOnEditing? I will merge anything in HelpPage#editing into it, its just that that page doesn't explain moin, and is written in rst08:40
mdkeor perhaps HelpPage would be better08:41
smwhat about http://zwiki.org/editing08:49
smthat HelpPage is pretty old08:49
smor http://zwiki.org/UsersGuide08:49
smI'm not sure which is most appropriate08:49
smoh the skin08:49
smit needs to have some help right there, also, like on http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak08:50
smif someone would care to format a little table like that, I'll add it08:50
smneed one for each page type08:50
smmdke: that would be good (debian menu notes)08:51
smI'm surprised I haven't seen it anywhere08:51
mdkesm, sorry misunderstanding08:51
mdkesm, i wasn't very clear08:52
mdkesm, using that skin, when editing a page, there is a link at the bottom to HelpPage#editing08:52
mdkesm, but this page clashes a bit with HelpOnEditing08:53
mdkeI suggest merging the two08:53
mdkesm, if the end result was to be moin, it would need a different link because the #editing part wouldn't work if i understand correctly08:53
smI'll just point it to zwiki.org for now, how's that08:54
mdkeyou don't like HelponEditing?08:54
mdkemaybe it needs some work08:54
smoh I'm not seeing that.. one sec08:55
smoh this.. I just added a comment08:55
smthat's fine, I'd include a prominent link to the zwiki doc also08:56
mdkeok kewl08:56
smactually I can't easily change the editform link right now, without breaking skin switching08:56
mdkefor now I will put a link on HelpPage08:56
smbut you could replace what's on HelpPage with something more useful08:57
mdkeyeah ok08:57
smmaybe it should just be a short roadmap to docs08:57
smHelpOnEditing, ZWiki:UsersGuide, OldZwikiHelpPage..08:58
mdkethe first few sections are good08:58
mdkedo the ZWiki:* links work? kewl08:58
mdkejust the formatting section is not good (because it refers to rst08:58
smyeah.. http://zwiki.org/RemoteWikiLinks08:58
smno, it refers to stx08:59
smyes you're right08:59
smif section 8 were redone, do you think the rest is ok for the ubuntu wiki ?08:59
smit was really written for a non-plone zwiki08:59
smso I guess if we expand "You'll find more documentation at.." and replace section 8 it's ok09:01
mdkeyeah that's what i'll do09:01
mdkeand i need to investigate this external editor idea09:01
smwell worth the setup hassle09:01
jjessethere is an external editor for the wiki?09:02
jjessesorry that i chime in so random, busy debugging active directory group policy09:02
smyes jjesse, http://zwiki.org/WikiTips09:02
jjesseyou can call me jon or jonathan doesn't matter and it wouild be esier then jjesse09:03
smsorry, I mean http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WikiTips09:03
mdkeyou might not get the highlights09:03
=== sm .oO(wikiwikiwiki)
=== mdke adds his name to highlights
smhi jon09:04
smchat clients auto-complete your nick, and beep when it's typed, so whatever you  choose is easiest09:04
jjesseoh cool, never really used much of irc beforfe09:05
mdkejjesse, if you're on xchat you can get it to beep for "jon" too09:05
jjesseok, think i have it setup jon09:07
jjessehmmm not working whne i do it09:07
mdkewhat are you using?09:08
mdkejjesse, does it work when i do it?09:08
mdkejon, what about now?09:09
jjesseyes worked as well09:09
mdkesm, integrated your comment into HelpOnEditing, it looks more friendly now i hope :) thanks09:49
smcool.. I removed the stx help from HelpPage09:52
smwant more feedback ? I might change PLEASE REMEMBER to please consider09:52
smand is it worth mentioning the plone page creation method ? if so, why not include the page management form method as well09:53
smpage management form is the quickest and easiest imho09:53
mdkesm, 1. ok 2. dunno 3. ok09:54
mdkei guess people will use the plone method anyway09:55
mdkeso i could cut it out09:55
sm- pick a suitable "parent page" for your topic; don't worry, you can change this later09:56
sm- scroll down to the bottom09:56
sm- enter your new page's name where it says "new parent, name, replacement, subtopic". A WikiName is preferred but not required09:56
sm- click create09:56
sm- enter some text to start your new page09:56
sm- click save09:56
smre plone method, yes, we must stop them09:56
mdkeremove the link?09:56
smbut as long as the link remains, it will be used.. perhaps just a note saying it's a bad idea09:56
mdkeok will do09:56
smI would, but there are technical difficulties with removing it just now09:56
mdkere: PLEASE REMEMBER, how about "please"?09:57
mdkeotherwise going through the diff is annoying09:57
smis it ?09:57
=== sm doesn't worry about log notes too much.. I agree they're nice when there
smif it's an uninteresting change I sometimes don't bother09:58
mdkehang on a tic09:58
sm"minor edit".. "minor edit".. "minor edit"09:58
mdkeyeah me neither, in the diff a minor change is easy to spot09:59
mdkethe page management method you've described there is different to the one on zwiki.org/editing09:59
smis it, how so ?09:59
mdkeoh no maybe not09:59
smyeah, zwiki's has an extra step09:59
smwhich we don't need to worry about here.. it's always enabled09:59
mdke Zwiki quick method: use page management form (Zwiki sites only)09:59
mdke   1. Click options at top left and configure a username, if you haven't already09:59
mdke   2. Click full at top right09:59
mdke   3. Open http://zwiki.org/SandBox in another window.09:59
mdke   4. In the grey page management form at the very bottom of the page, enter a name for your page. Eg your name without spaces.09:59
mdke   5. Click the create button09:59
mdke   6. Click the create button again.09:59
mdkeyours is better10:00
smthey're both mine :)10:00
smactually on ubuntu wiki, if someone switches to zwiki skin in minimal or simple modes, the page managementform is not visible10:01
mdkeyour latest offering :)10:01
smtoo many details :/10:01
mdkebut then most users reading that page don't use that10:01
mdkeanyway I will note that10:01
smnah I wouldn't.. they will be consuded10:02
smconfused, even10:02
mdke"0. Page Management Method (not available if you use the zwiki minimal or simple skin)"?10:02
smI think newcomers to the wiki shouldn't even have to know about different skins10:03
mdkeyeah ok10:03
mdkefair enough10:03
smhard to document it simply :/10:03
mdkeits not really user friendly enough10:03
smif it were up to me, I would use the zwiki skin in full mode with perhaps some more ubuntu styling10:04
mdkeit appears not to have the bullet pointing bug too, although i haven't doublechecked10:05
mdkeok modified10:07
mdkethanks again10:07
smnice job mdke10:11
smhow about 1. Make a link, 2. Use page management form10:12
mdkesm, you mean as titles?10:12
smunder  There are two main ways to create a page:10:13
mdkesm, sure will do.10:13
mdkesm, can you do me a favour: go to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ODiaADiaComOUbuntu10:13
mdkecheck out the first two bullet points under the third heading10:13
mdkecan i avoid this?10:13
smeh, avoid what ?10:14
mdkethat ? in the middle of the title10:15
mdkethey should be wikilinks but are not10:15
smoh, NetworkPrinting?2Win2K, sure10:15
smyou have to enclose it in [] , because we don't consider numbers in the middle to be a valid WikiName10:15
smonly at the end, as a special case10:16
smNetworkPrintingToWindows2000 ?10:16
mdkeNetworkPrintingFromWin2K seems to be the only valid link anyway10:17
mdkesm, does the zwiki skin have an option to show backlinks10:19
smalways list them on the main page ?10:20
mdkeno just to find them out10:20
smsure, click title10:20
smor alt b10:20
smor the "backlinks" in full more10:21
=== sm types carefully: or the "backlinks" link in full mode
mdkei feel terrible for taking up so much of your time10:22
smthis is one way I can help effectively.. if I get busy I'll answer more slowly :)10:24
smmy bad.. there is no backlinks link these days10:46
smjust the title10:46
smsee you10:46
mdkethere is10:46
mdkeworks fine10:47
smI mean in zwiki skin10:47
mdketitle links to it10:47
smright, that's it10:47
mdkeits very useful10:47
smI thought there was a little "backlinks" as well10:47
mdkeoh i c what you mean10:47
smbut that would be.. superfluous10:47
mdkeis x-zope-edit packaged for ubuntu?10:51
smif you have time, please note that where others will find it10:54
mdkeis there a difference between zopeedit, zope-externaleditor?10:55
smah, yes there is10:55
smI gave you: This package contains the product which is needed on the machine10:55
smzopeedit is the one you want10:56
mdkek cool10:56
mdkei always forget to scroll all the way down ;)10:56
smseems to be not in ubuntu :/10:57
smI guess zope in general isn't10:58
mdkeits there10:58
mdkethere's billions of zope packages10:58
mdke[universe] 10:59
smright, just not ubuntu proper11:02
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mdkesm, still awake?11:58
smjust about11:58
smI replied11:58
mdketo mine?11:58
mdkedid you see mary's email? there is a question in the last paragraph that you might be able to answer11:59
mdkehaven't got yours yet11:59
smsubject ?11:59
mdkeRe: Rehashing wikis12:00
mdkewhat did you reply to?12:00
smstrange, haven't got that one yet12:00
smI replied to you in that thread12:01
smI subscribe to gmane, not the list, maybe a lag12:01
mdkedo timezones affect when emails are delivered?12:01
mdkei'll paste her question12:01
smin fact gmane has been a little slow today12:01
mdkeI'm not all that familiar with the current wiki software, but is there12:02
mdkeany place you can store draft pages? (Some people do this on their user12:02
mdkepagei on some wikis.) The best way to get this kind of feedback might be12:02
mdketo do a draft and solicit either feedback or more people to come in and12:02
mdkechange things.12:02
smsure, just create it under your home page12:02
smand call it SomethingDraft if you like12:02

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