=== mdke [~matt@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [~Burgundav@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:44] African Greetings [06:53] hey [06:53] haven't done that bittorrent stuff [06:53] been busy [06:53] will do tomorrow [06:54] OK [06:54] I'm sure you will fit it in somewhere [06:54] ya [06:54] If you find you have a problem, let us know and we will put it back out for adoption [06:54] had a dnd convention today [06:58] what's a dnd convention? [06:58] dungeons and dragons [06:58] roleplaying [06:58] ah ha === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Kinnison [~dsilvers@haddenham.pepperfish.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:17] Morning === egli [~egli@gate.wyona.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:09] enrico: I'm reading the meeting notes. lol. Sean and Corey made up :-) [10:10] egli: yup yup! :) [10:10] good to have froud back [10:11] and good notes btw [10:11] egli: back, and super-active [10:11] egli: thanks [10:11] seems like a trivial patch to yelp that tolef did [10:12] indeed. But I guess that wasn't easy to find [10:12] seems like a lot of problems in yelp could be solved if you speak xsl [10:12] maybe I should look at the source once. Maybe there is more of these one-liner fixes :-) [10:13] well, appearently there are not many other major issues to be fixed at the momnet [10:14] but you're always very welcome to look at yelp's code and find improvements! [10:14] ah, too bad :-/. Yes, will try to look at it [10:15] froud was talking about yelp issues. Apparently for these issues he wants to move to a html based solution [10:16] he's mainly worried about yelp-specific extensions to DocBook that would render our sources problematic with other viewers [10:18] ah, ok. I understand. Probably makes soense === froud-away [~froud@ndn-165-131-237.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud-away [~froud@ndn-165-131-237.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:22] hello === froud-away [~froud@ndn-165-131-237.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud-away [~froud@ndn-165-131-237.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud-work [~froud@ndn-165-131-237.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud-work [~froud@ndn-165-131-237.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud-work [~froud@ndn-165-131-237.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud-work [~froud@ndn-165-131-237.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === koke [~koke@rm-001-26.serve.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === drasko [~drasko@ic-07.etf.bg.ac.yu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud-work [~froud@ndn-165-131-237.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mercurus [~mercurus@PIPP-p-144-134-201-136.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [~jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [~matt@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Arago [~Arago@host33-40.pool80182.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc === r4i [~rai@host215-26.pool8257.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:31] heh [03:31] welcome [04:15] new wiki page at GnomeMenuEditingHowTo, please add/correct etc :) [04:16] grin thanks i too would love to be able edit the gnome menu as well [04:18] heh [04:18] it is not entirely easy [04:18] howto is copied from gnome.org [04:18] so you can trust it [04:18] hi jjesse btw we haven't met i don't think [04:18] i am matt [04:21] mdke: woo onice, I didn't know the menu editor was put back to 2.10 ? [04:21] 2.12 [04:21] :( [04:22] eh [04:22] the next development version? [04:22] yes there is no menu editor in 2.10 [04:22] unless some user writes one and submits it (see the ubuntu bug linked on that wiki page) [04:26] i just joined the group [04:26] my name is jonathan, posted once or twice on the mailing group [04:27] jjesse, yeah saw. I have also just joined. [04:27] am just wiki gardening atm [04:27] grin i'm just trying to understand things right now :) [04:29] i did one wiki on how to upgrade from warty to hoary: HoaryUpgradeNotes [04:30] ah cool [04:30] keep an eye on it because it may change as bugs are squashed [04:32] jjesse, i'm gonna add a quick item on the language-pack upgrade [04:35] useful wiki page that [04:35] jjesse, btw if you want numbered lists, you have to use 0., then 0. on the next line, then 0. (etc) [04:40] ah thanks, it was the first wiki page i have done [04:40] nod i am keeping an eye on it [04:40] soon will upgrade other box to hoary and see if the experience chanages or improves [04:40] that will be a very useful wiki page [04:40] thanks again === mercurus [~mercurus@pipp-p-144-138-229-86.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:01] thanks mdke for the update [05:01] and correcting my formating :) [05:03] np [05:03] i'm not great at formatting either [05:03] its a bit weird [05:03] and there is a huge bug with bullet points [05:03] but for guidance see HelpOnEditing [05:15] hi froud wb [05:15] cool i'll checkout that page [05:16] hey [05:17] :) === froud is hacking docs [05:17] yay [05:18] froud, do you have time for a quick question? === froud announces availability of KDE for Ubuntu Installation in https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu [05:18] mdke: yep [05:18] i am slightly confused about the structure of docs in yelp. if I open "help" in hoary, I get 4 options [05:19] ok [05:19] but the sub-sections under those options are not organised in a logical way [05:19] is this temporary? [05:19] you are right [05:19] first problem is we need a top level category for ubuntu docs [05:19] +1 [05:19] the order of the docs is auto [05:20] :-) [05:20] but maybe the quickguide could go under applications [05:20] I think one of the devs was looking at that [05:20] I am not sure how to make categories [05:20] but yes we can move it [05:20] at the moment it is really shocking: the quickguide and others are hidden under "other docs" [05:21] along with some really random stuff [05:21] yes, that's why we want a top level [05:21] yeah totally [05:21] it'll get sorted out before release right? [05:21] it was discussed during the meeting. [05:22] enrico: needs to ping someone [05:22] heh [05:23] mdke: btw if you want things to do you can feel free to start on the Admin Guide [05:24] or any other doc for that matter [05:24] is the admin guide even started? === froud wonders if anyone read his post on round tripping [05:24] froud, at the moment i will stay on wiki pages. when my exams are finished, I will learn docbook and get involved [05:24] There is an outline [05:24] :-) no worries [05:25] i guess i have just looked at the wikis so far, haven't had time to learn docbook [05:25] It's easier than you think [05:25] heh [05:25] i have never used subversion either [05:25] i've installed it and will play with it [05:26] froud: my ping list is: [05:26] Oh no, enrico wrote a good step by step that will help you then [05:26] ive used cvs more then subversion they are similar? [05:26] froud: jdub for his reviewing of the quickguide === froud goes off to find it [05:26] froud: jdub for putting the docs inthe yelp toc [05:26] dong that's the one [05:26] I pinged him today, he said he's busy and he'll get back to me soonish [05:27] froud, yes i saw that === froud comes back with ste-by-step http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepRepository [05:27] froud, its great [05:28] ciao enrico [05:28] It's a transscript taken from 30 minutes teaching Liz [05:28] btw where is our linux chick [05:29] enrico: I am gonna see if I can convert FAQ Guide to DOCTYPE FAQ [05:30] froud: cool! === enrico goes out to buy carrots and zucchini [05:31] lol [05:31] courgettes please! [05:31] and coffee all round while you're at it [05:32] oh [05:32] i really need to buy some coffee [05:32] and a machine [05:32] the "i don't need coffee" idea is running a bit thin [05:33] caffiene, nicotien and screen radition is all we need to live [05:33] hmm [05:33] not me [05:33] i need food [05:34] food is a nusance [05:34] hav eto get out from between the keyboard and the seat to take it [05:35] only to cook [05:35] eating in front of the computer is ok [05:35] 4 hands might be an advantage tho [05:36] nah I am liable to spill ketup or something gross into the keyboard [05:36] lol [05:37] it happens... [05:37] imagine mashed patatoe between the keys [05:37] squish, squish for the next week [05:37] ouch [05:37] Hey I am off to covert faq guide [05:37] c ya later [05:38] bye [05:49] anyone know why the HowTo page was wiped? [05:49] HowTo What? [05:49] the HowTo wiki page sorry [05:50] nope never used it [05:50] looks like the last 10 diffs are all blank too === froud points across the room [05:50] last 20 [05:50] perhaps it never was [05:51] apparently it was [05:51] weird === froud goes back to porting [05:51] anyone all those upper level docs need some rehashing [05:51] wiki docs* [05:52] afk [06:05] enrico: it's ok if I commit the change back to trunk right. I mean we decided not to ship ubuntu-faqguide === egli [~egli@gate.wyona.com] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] [06:29] froud: yes, I [06:29] froud: yes, I'd say go on [06:30] k if it is a problem I will branch [06:30] froud: nono: that's not to be shipped with Hoary anyway [06:30] k === froud [~froud@ndn-165-131-237.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud announces that faq guide is not ported to use docbook q and a. HEAD is not valid yet. XREFs need to be fixed. Anyone wanting to have a stab at fixing it is welcome. I will pick it up again tomorrow. enjoy. [07:42] opps is now [07:42] oops is now === froud needs sleep [07:42] c ya later [07:42] night night [07:49] bbl === mdke [~matt@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:09] hey mat thanks for making more changes to my wiki post [08:10] eh? [08:10] i just changed it once === sm [~simon@lsanca1-ar5-4-60-052-182.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:13] hmm someone else must have made some changes named mat as i just got two emails saying mat zimmerman just made changes [08:15] cool [08:15] jjesse, you get emails saying when people make changes? [08:15] matt z is basically the boss of ubuntu ;) [08:15] grin [08:15] nod i'm subscribed to the posts i have made on the wiki [08:16] hmm [08:16] and it emails me when they get changed [08:16] jjesse, how do you do that? [08:16] on the wiki there is a tab labeled "subscribe" [08:17] and i can subscribe to the ones that i want to i guess [08:17] sm, in here shhhh [08:17] sm, i'm logged in [08:17] insufficient privileges [08:17] hi all [08:17] jjesse, thanks [08:17] np mdke [08:18] "subscribe to whole wiki" [08:18] mdke: how about now ? don't forget to shift-reload, just in case cache interferes [08:18] subscribe to that page should be on the left side? [08:19] jjesse, yeah [08:19] sm, still no [08:19] still bad eh.. one sec [08:20] btw sm this is jjesse [08:20] :) [08:20] should be ok now [08:20] jjesse has infiltrated mdke's brain ? oh no [08:20] sm, bingo thanks [08:20] i mean, meet jjesse [08:21] ah [08:21] hello jjesse [08:21] mdke: it's missing some info since we haven't enabled page rating [08:21] just as well ;) [08:22] so you'll link those eh [08:22] erm [08:22] if you want me to i will [08:22] does it make sense ? [08:22] I think so [08:22] otherwise we'll never remember them [08:22] ok [08:22] i've bookmarked em too [08:23] and they're not too expensive if robots hit them [08:23] the pagesbyType one is very good [08:23] sm, the icons won't be long i think [08:23] cool [08:24] i'll do some more now [08:24] if you are doing a lot of editing you may want to try the fast skin and an external editor [08:24] WikiTips [08:24] oh ok [08:24] i'll try [08:25] sm, is that zwiki theme you mean? [08:25] yes [08:26] ok [08:26] sm, whats the difference? [08:27] oh i see [08:27] lol [08:27] faster, & normal size fonts [08:27] brilliant [08:27] oh that's soooo much better [08:27] thanks [08:27] you're welcome [08:28] omg that should be the only skin [08:29] brilliant === maskie [~maskie@196-30-108-52.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:32] has anyone seen a doc for how to enable the full debian menu ? [08:35] erm [08:35] i saw it in a bug report [08:35] ;) [08:36] it's something like "apt-get install menu-xdg" but I could be wrong [08:36] maybe i will add it to https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GnomeMenuEditingHowTo [08:37] you can use applications:/// in nautilus for warty. Hoary/GNOME 2.10 will [08:37] probably not have a graphical editor. You can install menu/menu-xdg to have a [08:37] debian submenu with all the suff installed. [08:38] grin ok i was gone for a bit did i miss anything :) [08:39] and who got in my brain? [08:40] sm, in that skin on the wiki editing page, it links to HelpPage#editing. Is there any chance of getting that changed to HelpOnEditing? I will merge anything in HelpPage#editing into it, its just that that page doesn't explain moin, and is written in rst [08:41] or perhaps HelpPage would be better [08:49] what about http://zwiki.org/editing [08:49] that HelpPage is pretty old [08:49] or http://zwiki.org/UsersGuide [08:49] I'm not sure which is most appropriate [08:49] oh the skin [08:50] it needs to have some help right there, also, like on http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak [08:50] if someone would care to format a little table like that, I'll add it [08:50] need one for each page type [08:51] mdke: that would be good (debian menu notes) [08:51] I'm surprised I haven't seen it anywhere [08:51] sm, sorry misunderstanding [08:52] sm, i wasn't very clear [08:52] sm, using that skin, when editing a page, there is a link at the bottom to HelpPage#editing [08:53] sm, but this page clashes a bit with HelpOnEditing [08:53] I suggest merging the two [08:53] sm, if the end result was to be moin, it would need a different link because the #editing part wouldn't work if i understand correctly [08:53] yes [08:54] I'll just point it to zwiki.org for now, how's that [08:54] you don't like HelponEditing? [08:54] maybe it needs some work [08:55] oh I'm not seeing that.. one sec [08:55] oh this.. I just added a comment [08:56] that's fine, I'd include a prominent link to the zwiki doc also [08:56] ok kewl [08:56] actually I can't easily change the editform link right now, without breaking skin switching [08:56] np [08:56] for now I will put a link on HelpPage [08:57] but you could replace what's on HelpPage with something more useful [08:57] yeah ok [08:57] maybe it should just be a short roadmap to docs [08:58] HelpOnEditing, ZWiki:UsersGuide, OldZwikiHelpPage.. [08:58] the first few sections are good [08:58] do the ZWiki:* links work? kewl [08:58] just the formatting section is not good (because it refers to rst [08:58] yeah.. http://zwiki.org/RemoteWikiLinks [08:59] no, it refers to stx [08:59] yes you're right [08:59] if section 8 were redone, do you think the rest is ok for the ubuntu wiki ? [08:59] it was really written for a non-plone zwiki [09:00] sure [09:01] so I guess if we expand "You'll find more documentation at.." and replace section 8 it's ok [09:01] yeah that's what i'll do [09:01] thanks [09:01] thx [09:01] and i need to investigate this external editor idea [09:01] definitely [09:01] well worth the setup hassle [09:02] there is an external editor for the wiki? [09:02] sorry that i chime in so random, busy debugging active directory group policy [09:02] yes jjesse, http://zwiki.org/WikiTips [09:03] you can call me jon or jonathan doesn't matter and it wouild be esier then jjesse [09:03] sorry, I mean http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WikiTips [09:03] heh [09:03] you might not get the highlights === sm .oO(wikiwikiwiki) === mdke adds his name to highlights [09:04] hi jon [09:04] chat clients auto-complete your nick, and beep when it's typed, so whatever you choose is easiest [09:05] oh cool, never really used much of irc beforfe [09:05] jjesse, if you're on xchat you can get it to beep for "jon" too [09:07] ok, think i have it setup jon [09:07] jjesse [09:07] hmmm not working whne i do it [09:08] what are you using? [09:08] jjesse, does it work when i do it? [09:08] yes [09:08] cool [09:09] jon, what about now? [09:09] yes worked as well [09:11] :) [09:49] sm, integrated your comment into HelpOnEditing, it looks more friendly now i hope :) thanks [09:52] cool.. I removed the stx help from HelpPage [09:52] want more feedback ? I might change PLEASE REMEMBER to please consider [09:53] and is it worth mentioning the plone page creation method ? if so, why not include the page management form method as well [09:53] page management form is the quickest and easiest imho [09:54] sm, 1. ok 2. dunno 3. ok [09:55] i guess people will use the plone method anyway [09:55] so i could cut it out [09:56] eg [09:56] - pick a suitable "parent page" for your topic; don't worry, you can change this later [09:56] - scroll down to the bottom [09:56] - enter your new page's name where it says "new parent, name, replacement, subtopic". A WikiName is preferred but not required [09:56] - click create [09:56] - enter some text to start your new page [09:56] - click save [09:56] re plone method, yes, we must stop them [09:56] lol [09:56] remove the link? [09:56] but as long as the link remains, it will be used.. perhaps just a note saying it's a bad idea [09:56] ok will do [09:56] I would, but there are technical difficulties with removing it just now [09:57] re: PLEASE REMEMBER, how about "please"? [09:57] nice [09:57] otherwise going through the diff is annoying [09:57] is it ? === sm doesn't worry about log notes too much.. I agree they're nice when there [09:58] ok [09:58] if it's an uninteresting change I sometimes don't bother [09:58] hang on a tic [09:58] "minor edit".. "minor edit".. "minor edit" [09:59] yeah me neither, in the diff a minor change is easy to spot [09:59] the page management method you've described there is different to the one on zwiki.org/editing [09:59] is it, how so ? [09:59] oh no maybe not [09:59] yeah, zwiki's has an extra step [09:59] which we don't need to worry about here.. it's always enabled [09:59] Zwiki quick method: use page management form (Zwiki sites only) [09:59] 1. Click options at top left and configure a username, if you haven't already [09:59] 2. Click full at top right [09:59] 3. Open http://zwiki.org/SandBox in another window. [09:59] 4. In the grey page management form at the very bottom of the page, enter a name for your page. Eg your name without spaces. [09:59] 5. Click the create button [09:59] 6. Click the create button again. [10:00] yours is better [10:00] they're both mine :) [10:01] lol [10:01] actually on ubuntu wiki, if someone switches to zwiki skin in minimal or simple modes, the page managementform is not visible [10:01] your latest offering :) [10:01] too many details :/ [10:01] hmm [10:01] but then most users reading that page don't use that [10:01] maybe? [10:01] right [10:01] anyway I will note that [10:02] nah I wouldn't.. they will be consuded [10:02] confused, even [10:02] "0. Page Management Method (not available if you use the zwiki minimal or simple skin)"? [10:03] I think newcomers to the wiki shouldn't even have to know about different skins [10:03] yeah ok [10:03] fair enough [10:03] hard to document it simply :/ [10:03] its not really user friendly enough [10:04] if it were up to me, I would use the zwiki skin in full mode with perhaps some more ubuntu styling [10:04] always [10:05] yes [10:05] it appears not to have the bullet pointing bug too, although i haven't doublechecked [10:07] ok modified [10:07] thanks again [10:11] nice job mdke [10:12] how about 1. Make a link, 2. Use page management form [10:12] k [10:12] sm, you mean as titles? [10:12] yes [10:13] under There are two main ways to create a page: [10:13] sm, sure will do. [10:13] sm, can you do me a favour: go to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ODiaADiaComOUbuntu [10:13] check out the first two bullet points under the third heading [10:13] can i avoid this? [10:14] eh, avoid what ? [10:15] that ? in the middle of the title [10:15] they should be wikilinks but are not [10:15]