[09:36] (mdz/#ubuntu-meeting) jdub is unlikely to be awake at this hour; I've pinged seb128
[09:36] (mdz/#ubuntu-meeting) I don't feel confident that we can take a decision on this during this meeting
[09:36] <Q-FUNK> my point is that Gnome might as well skip minor releases completely if we only ever release the first major release of every new version.
[09:36] <mdz> I suggest that the issue be raised and discussed on ubuntu-devel so that we can get more input
[09:37] <ogra> pitti ++
[09:37] <azeem> has there ever been a security issue with GNOME stuff?
[09:37] <pitti> yeah
[09:37] <pitti> evolution, for example
[09:37] <dholbach> libxml2 too
[09:37] <Q-FUNK> Keybuk: well, given how close to Hoary we are, might as well focus on that one.  that's how I would alter my proposal to mean $release-updates.
[09:37] <smurfix> Q-FUNK: the proposal mentions Debian. Ubuntu isn't Debian, and some QA would still have to be done.
[09:38] <pitti> and things like gnome-system-tools are vulnerability-prone as well
[09:38] <smurfix> mdz ++
[09:38] <Keybuk> Q-FUNK: but then we'd again be having to do security support for both pure-hoary and hoary-updates while at the same time doing breezy
[09:38] <Q-FUNK> smurfix: you are aware that seb128 produces packages for both debian and ubuntu, right?
[09:38] <mdz> Q-FUNK: will you start the discussion on ubuntu-devel?
[09:38] <dholbach> breezy?
[09:38] <Q-FUNK> mdz: gladly
[09:38] <dredg> gnome is *big*. working it into a release is one thing. bludgeoning it into an already stable release is.. scary.
[09:38] <mdz> ok
[09:38] <mdz> any other business?
[09:39] <Keybuk> is the wine thing at the bottom on the agenda?
[09:39] <ajmitch> morning jeff
[09:39] <ajmitch> no, it's not, it should have been
[09:39] <mdz> is Scott Ritchie here?
[09:39] <smurfix> Q-FUNK: He's still just one person.
[09:39] <dholbach> yokozar
[09:39] <dholbach> he seems not to be here
[09:39] <mdz> he doesn't seem to be online
[09:39] <ogra> nope
[09:40] <mdz> he mentions the winetools package
[09:40] <mdz> is there actually an issue for this package?
[09:40] <Keybuk> I'd like to see well-supported wine in main; but I'm nervous that people might not want to provide support for 18-month old versions of it
[09:40] <ogra> which we will put in unioverse as soon as 3 MOTUs have reviewed it
[09:40] <mdz> it is a new package which he would like to see in universe
[09:40] <ogra> (according to our NEW policy)
[09:41] <dholbach> it's not just winetools, but wine and wine-dev as well, ogra, am i right?
[09:41] <mdz> ogra: ok, has there been any issue or delay with the review?  is there a backlog?
[09:41] <mdz> well, there is a separate issue of whether we use Debian's wine packages or Scott's wine packages
[09:41] <ogra> dholbach, no its currently just winetools
[09:41] <azeem> wasn't the issue that somebody (YokoZar?) thought the Debian maintainer was too slow with new upstream releases?
[09:41] <ogra> yep
[09:42] <ogra> Mithrandir, raised a important point in the mailing list today
[09:42] <dholbach> while the debian maintainer was ill or something
[09:42] <mdz> support is not an issue at this point
[09:42] <mdz> wine is in universe, and so we make no guarantees about it
[09:42] <Q-FUNK> thatnk goodness we have redeundancy at least in chapter and *verse.
[09:43] <mdz> the questions at hand, as I undertsand it, are: 1) do we include winetools, and 2) do we use Debian's wine or Scott's wine
[09:43] <mdz> 1) seems obvious; we should include winetools pending review
[09:43] <ogra> these two schould be independent
[09:43] <Kamion> Q-FUNK: note that we do not only release the first major release of every new version; we have the space between preview and final release to catch minor updates
[09:43] <azeem> Debian's wine seems to be maintained again
[09:43] <Kamion> (sorry to go back, I was coding)
[09:44] <azeem> and Ove Kaaven probably knows a lot about it
[09:44] <dholbach> my point was to get both yokozar and the debian maintainer of wine in a meeting to hear their points
[09:44] <mdz> if the review process represents a bottleneck, we should address that, because we want this to go smoothly for new packages
[09:44] <ogra> yup, and the maintainer said he would look at scotts package soon in a changelog entry
[09:44] <stockholm> dholbach: i would not do that.
[09:44] <mdz> dholbach: that sounds reasonable
[09:44] <mdz> neither of them are present here
[09:44] <Kamion> stockholm: can you elaborate?
[09:44] <stockholm> dholbach: ove kaaven is *extremly* shy
[09:44] <herve> YokoZar could also co-maintain wine with Debian's maintainer
[09:45] <stockholm> he is very awkward to talk to inperson
[09:45] <ogra> thats what i suggest since about a month herve 
[09:45] <stockholm> i would recommend anything but in-person meeting
[09:45] <smurfix> stockholm: on IRC too ?
[09:45] <ogra> stockholm, online
[09:45] <stockholm> no, on irc is better
[09:45] <stockholm> much better
[09:45] <mdz> I suggest that we invite both of them to attend one of our scheduled meetings
[09:45] <Kamion> I think that's what we were talking about to start with :)
[09:45] <stockholm> sorry, then
[09:46] <ogra> sorry for the flood:
[09:46] <smurfix> mdz: makes sense. ideally these two should combine their efforts.
[09:46] <ogra>  * Mention Scott Ritchie's Wine packages in README.Debian.
[09:46] <ogra>     Since I have been sick a lot lately, I have not had time
[09:46] <ogra>     to review these packages yet, but I can at least mention
[09:46] <ogra>     them. After I bring the current Debian packages up to
[09:46] <ogra>     date, I'll review his packages, and if I like them, I may
[09:46] <ogra>     turn over maintainership to him. Until then, I'm only
[09:46] <ogra>     mentioning his packages with caution.
[09:46] <ogra> thats from the debian wine package
[09:46] <mdz> ogra: will you send an email to both of them and invite them to the CC meeting in one week?
[09:46] <ogra> yup
[09:46] <ajmitch> ogra: and he's done the bringing debian packages up to date
[09:46] <mdz> then we can discuss this more meaningfully, with them present
[09:46] <ogra> yup
[09:46] <herve> it's more reasonable to offer help rather than arguing about Debian not being productive enough
[09:47] <ogra> yup
[09:47] <mdz> ok, any other business?
[09:47] <sivang> seems not
[09:47] <mdz> meeting adjourned
[09:47] <mdz> thanks, all
[09:47] <sivang> thanks mdz
[09:47] <dholbach> thanks mdz
[09:47] <ajmitch> thanks mdz
[09:47] <ogra> thank you mdz 
[09:48] <ogra> elmo `
[09:48] <ogra> elmo, did you recognize i got approved for main uploads ? any action required for that ?
[09:48] <elmo> ogra: yes, mail keyring@ - I'll deal with it tomorrow morning
[09:49] <sivang> ogra: the wine packages could use more help ?
[09:49] <Treenaks> elmo: same with my universe stuff?
[09:49] <fabbione> ogra: you need to bend over and offer yourself to elmo
[09:49] <dholbach> hahahaaaaa
[09:49] <ogra> fabbione, i thought zhaz was your part
[09:49] <fabbione> ogra: i can't do everything ;)
[09:49] <ogra> lol
[09:49] <sivang> fabbione: LOL
[09:49] <fabbione> i had my share of elmo to have my DD account :P
[09:49] <ogra> *G*
[09:51] <crimsun> Treenaks: yes, same.
[09:51] <Treenaks> crimsun: :)
[09:52] <ogra> Treenaks, crimsun you heard what fabbione said ;)
[09:52] <Treenaks> ogra: yeah, but you're our fearless MOTU leader
[09:52] <Treenaks> ogra: so you can do it FOR us
[09:52] <ogra> lol
[09:52] <sivang> fabbione: so that's why people have been complaining about the DAM ? ;-)
[09:53] <dholbach> Treenaks: don't be such a sissy :-)
[09:53] <ajmitch> Treenaks: weren't you appointed as well? :)
[09:53] <Treenaks> dholbach: hey, you're german, you're used to it!
[09:53] <dholbach> Treenaks: used to what?
[09:53] <Treenaks> dholbach: abuse, in any sort shape and/or form
[09:53] <dholbach> oh... i didnt realize :-)