[12:01] <lamont> configure:2059: checking build system type
[12:01] <lamont> configure:2072: error: /bin/sh config/config.sub x86_64-linux failed
[12:01] <lamont> you mean that?
[12:02] <lamont> haven't checked debian/rules and friends, but my bet is that they just update config.guess in the top directory, not in cppunit/
[12:02] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x    1 buildd   buildd      43458 Mar 15 07:40 ./config.guess
[12:02] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x    1 buildd   buildd      33085 Oct 26  2001 ./cppunit/config/config.guess
[12:02] <lamont> after the build
[12:02] <lamont> fails
[12:03] <crimsun> ah, great catch
[12:03] <crimsun> thanks much :)
[12:03] <crimsun> (duh, the configure is for cppunit)
[12:03] <lamont> elmo: nm on those build-deps.
[12:03] <lamont> crimsun: :-)
[12:07] <Riddell> mdz: could we also have kde-style-lipstik in main?
[12:17] <mdz> Riddell: same process and criteria as for anything else
[12:18] <Riddell> mdz: of course
[12:18] <Riddell> just giving warning :)
[12:23] <mdz> Clint: what creates obj/Src/Modules/Makefile.in in the zsh build?
[12:23] <Clint> not configure?
[12:24] <mdz> ah, mkmakemod.sh
[12:24] <Clint> oh, yes
[12:24] <mdz> a goddamn maze
[12:24] <Clint> it's much saner without the patch
[12:25] <Clint> it's too bad libtool can't do it better
[12:30] <ogra> could someone fix the topic in #ubuntu finally ?
[12:31] <ogra> still states the abi breakage for -26
[12:34] <ogra> mdz, thanks :)
[12:35] <mdz> Clint: I wonder why you haven't encountered this failure in Debian
[12:35] <mdz> maybe an accident of .diff.gz ordering
[12:35] <Clint> if you're not touching any of the build system stuff, I don't see what would have broken
[12:36] <lamont> mdz: is that really mkmakemod.sh.in.in??
[12:36] <mdz> Clint: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/zsh/zsh_4.2.1-15ubuntu1_unknown.patch
[12:36] <mdz> Clint: that's all we change, apart from debian/changelog
[12:36] <mdz> lamont: yes
[12:36] <lamont> that's a maze.
[12:36] <ogra> insane
[12:37] <Clint> feel free to redesign it for me
[12:38] <dholbach> i'm off to bed
[12:39] <ogra> dholbach, no more wxwidget love tonight ?
[12:39] <smurfix> Gah. http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/, last item. Somebody pease remove that.
[12:39] <smurfix> s/pease/please/
[12:39] <dholbach> ogra: don't think so... no love any more tonight 
[12:40] <Clint> what was the failure again?
[12:40] <ogra> night mvo
[12:40] <ogra> night dholbach 
[12:41] <robtaylor> smurfix: wow, support for large plone folders, just what i've always wanted =)
[12:41] <mvo> night all
[12:41] <ogra> dholbach, but you should trigger the build before bed, then its probably done tomorrow :-P
[12:42] <dholbach> ogra: the build breaks after 3 minutes, where extracting the chroot tarball and ./configure take at least 2m30s
[12:43] <ogra> ouch, that needs a lot of love then
[12:43] <mdz> Clint: the failure was it trying to run autoconf during the build
[12:43] <mdz> Clint: which is what i just finished patching out
[12:43] <dholbach> ogra: yes :-)
[12:43] <mdz> Clint: it'll only happen if the timestamps fall the right way
[12:44] <mdz> (the wrong way)
[12:44] <Clint> and how are the timestamps getting horked?
[12:45] <tp_> can I ask where should I report ooffice bug in the 1.1.3 (paste in oocalc inserts rather than overwrites.. http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=15527)
[12:46] <dholbach> *wave*
[12:47] <ogra> night dholbach 
[12:47] <tp_> it's down as bug #402004 for oo but it's closed with 'not ooffice bug' (blaming Novell by the looks of it)
[12:48] <tp_> sorry bug  #40204
[12:50] <Clint> mdz: okay, that patch is definitely broken
[12:58] <mdz> Clint: I assume by the .diff.gz ordering
[12:58] <mdz> and various random buildd factors
[01:01] <daniels> mdz: mkmakemod.sh.in.in?!?
[01:01] <mdz> you guys act like you've never seen a .in.in file before
[01:02] <mdz> there's one in, like, every gettext package ever
[01:02] <daniels> yeah, I've seen .in.in
[01:02] <daniels> kde has you write configure.in.in
[01:03] <daniels> but two levels of abstraction to generate a shell script that apparently calls autoconf and generates Makefile.ins just sounds horrid
[01:03] <daniels> almost makes me wish for imake
[01:03] <Clint> it doesn't call autoconf
[01:03] <daniels> (disclaimer: no, I'm not actually wishing for automake)
[01:03] <daniels> Clint: ok
[01:03] <Clint> it generates Makefile.in and other shell scripts which generate other things
[01:03] <mdz> daniels: the shell script which is eventually generated by that .in.in produces a makefile
[01:03] <mdz> er, a makefile.in
[01:03] <mdz> which is turned into a makefile
[01:03] <mdz> which calls autoconf
[01:03] <Clint> twice
[01:04] <daniels> that is so awesome
[01:04] <daniels> s/wishing for automake/wishing for imake/
[01:05] <azeem> you wish for automake?
[01:06] <daniels> i wish for automake, yes
[01:08] <Clint> automake would be a bit cleaner
[01:08] <Riddell> does anyone know what hal-hotplug-map does and why KDE needs a symlink to pmount but gnome doesn't?
[01:18] <ogra> ballon help in hwdb :)
[01:24] <daniels> ogra: nice! :)
[01:24] <ogra> yay
[01:24] <ogra> daniels, wait after i hacked me through the night ;)
[01:25] <ajmitch> ogra: trying to meet deadlines? :)
[01:25] <ogra> hehe, yup
[01:25] <daniels> ogra: heh
[01:27] <tp_> is there a release of ooffice due for hoary (fix to nasty insert bug in oocalc, really nasty if you use it for financial)
[02:00] <tseng> jeez eugenia cant stop
[02:01] <zul> she ranting again?
[02:02] <tseng> she "appologized" after restating that gnome doesnt care about users blah blah
[02:02] <tseng>  On one hand, the controversy was positive, because it introduced a lot of people to the fact that many people believe that Gnome developers have not had an effective channel to receive and interpret feedback from users
[02:02] <robertj> tseng: I don't know. Part of me says "dont go to he site" but the other part of me thinks noone in here will ever click on a banner there, ever.
[02:04] <tseng> meh.
[02:04] <zul> some chick ranting doesnt make me want to read it
[02:04] <robertj> zul: stupid women ruining our software!
[02:04] <zul> robertj: not exactly
[02:05] <tseng> oh man.. fedora core 4 built by gcc 4.0
[02:05] <zul> its all ranting with nothing good to say really
[02:05] <crimsun> tseng: yep
[02:05] <robertj> stupid women wanting to ruin our software ;)
[02:07] <robertj> Any interesting things going on in fedora? Around Fedora 2 they were doing some nice python applets but after that things seemed to get very stale.
[02:08] <zul> who cares its nasty fedora
[02:09] <tseng> they seem to think that networkmanager actually works
[02:10] <robertj> it doesn't
[02:10] <robertj> ?
[02:10] <tseng> not very well.
[02:11] <robertj> works good enough for me
[02:13] <bing> which package contains the live-cd partition detection code?
[02:16] <bing> autopartkit?
[02:26] <zul> cd 
[02:26] <zul> oops
[02:28] <dilinger> zul@freenode:~$
[02:28] <zul> heh
[02:30] <zul> i dont mean to
[02:31] <mroth> pwd
[03:06] <mike_douglas> Hi, where can I find some more info about using kickstart to automate a Ubuntu Hoary install?
[03:06] <daniels> mike_douglas: unfortunately it's 2am where our installer guy (who has been doing all the kickstart stuff) lives
[03:08] <mike_douglas> daniels: damn, could I have his email?
[03:08] <jdub> mike_douglas: mail ubuntu-devel
[03:08] <mike_douglas> alright
[03:14] <dredg> holy crap it is 2am
[03:14] <dredg> feck...
[03:57] <Riddell> jdub: do you have the HTML for the new ubuntu site design?
[04:12] <daniels> Kamion: new xorg will hit soon, which means that your greek stuff is fixed; mkfontscale moved xbase-clients -> xutlis
[05:05] <Riddell> jdub: could you check over the two packages here?
[05:05] <Riddell> http://halls.debian.net/~tom/packages/kubuntu-calendar/
[05:05] <Riddell> neither they not ubuntu-calendar seem to get picked up by gnome-background-properties
[05:05] <Riddell> s/not/nor/
[06:19] <fabbione> morning
[06:25] <ogra> morning
[06:29] <lamont> morning fabbione 
[06:29] <lamont> mdz: you about?
[06:30] <mdz> lamont: vaguely
[06:31] <lamont> I sent you some mail...
[06:31] <mdz> saw it
[06:36] <Treenaks> morning all
[06:44] <fabbione> mdz: did everything go ok with the CD yesterday evening?
[06:44] <mdz> fabbione: I was waiting for X to build
[06:44] <fabbion3> ah ok
[06:45] <mdz> looks like it's done
[06:45] <mdz> lamont: what does royal replace?
[06:46] <lamont> adare
[06:46] <Treenaks> fabbion3: re: 7651 (2-line crasher/panic fix)..
[06:46] <lamont> hi AnthonyTowns 
[06:47] <fabbion3> Treenaks: ok
[06:48] <AnthonyTowns> i didn't want to, the bad people made me
[07:46] <dholbach> goooood morning
[07:46] <ogra> moin
[07:56] <svenl> Kamion: thanks.
[08:00] <ogra> mdz, still alive ?
[08:00] <mdz> ogra: yes
[08:00] <mdz> watching the DPL debate
[08:01] <ogra> i have rewritten the whole app (else i had no chance to get the changes in) will take me about 5-6h to finish it, is the CD build started already ?
[08:01] <ogra> (5-6h given i dont fall asleep)
[08:12] <mdz> ogra: I just started a build, yes
[08:12] <mdz> but there will be more
[08:13] <ogra> so would this timeframe be ok ? 
[08:14] <mdz> I am very nervous about rewriting the app the day before the milestone release
[08:16] <ogra> i think it will be ok, i tested it very extensively and fixed some bugs that were in before....but it leaves me at the point where i was yesterday night, having to  glue gui and sendpart together....
[08:17] <ogra> its only the backend code i rewrote, the app itself couldnt handle repeats of the tests the way it was, it was needed
[08:22] <svenl> damn, tzsetup-udeb failed with error code 1
[08:23] <svenl> and there seems to be no /usr/lib/cdebconf/frontend/passthrough.so :/
[08:23] <svenl> this apparently broke since yesterday.
[08:36] <fabbion3> Treenaks: 7651 pending upload
[08:39] <Treenaks> fabbion3: cool, thanks
[08:48] <dholbach> morning d3vic3 
[08:48] <whiprush> man dholbach, do you ever sleep? ;)
[08:48] <crimsun> MOTUs don't sleep  =)
[08:48] <whiprush> heh
[08:48] <dholbach> whiprush: ask ogra... he's the hero :-)
[08:48] <dholbach> whiprush: i slept nearly 6 hours
[08:49] <whiprush> heh
[08:50] <kagou> hi
[08:54] <ogra> crimsun, i can confirm that :)
[08:54] <crimsun> ;-)
[08:58] <svenl> Mmm, seems install this morning is fully broken on powerpc.
[08:58] <dholbach> d3vic3: do you have any idea on vtk?
[08:59] <dholbach> d3vic3: some guy of a company wrote me a mail and asked how to fix it
[08:59] <crimsun> hum.
[08:59] <crimsun> doesn't it need to be __init__.py?
[08:59] <dholbach> d3vic3: i always get this *GRR* "patented" message
[08:59] <crimsun> let me apt
[08:59] <crimsun> err, apt-get source
[09:00] <dholbach> but herve found out there was a new version in debian
[09:00] <dholbach> maybe it works better with the one they have
[09:00] <crimsun> right, please ask elmo for a sync :-)
[09:00] <dholbach> crimsun: a sync alone won't suffice
[09:01] <dholbach> at least i fear it won't suffice because of our python2.4 changes
[09:01] <crimsun> dholbach: right, but at least it will provide a new base on which to build -4ubuntu1
[09:03] <dholbach> hi pitti 
[09:04] <pitti> moin
[09:04] <dholbach> crimsun: hmhmhmhhmhmmhm :-)
[09:04] <pitti> dholbach: thanks for the DVDs, they arrived yesterday :-)
[09:05] <dholbach> pitti: WOOHOO!
[09:07] <dholbach> hai mvo
[09:07] <mvo> hey dholbach 
[09:07] <mvo> morning all
[09:08] <pitti> hi mvo
[09:13] <mvo> hi pitti 
[09:20] <d3vic3> morning dholbach 
[09:20] <d3vic3> dholbach, I haven't looked at it
[09:20] <dholbach> d3vic3: ok
[09:28] <kagou> Yes !!!!! -> http://home.btconnect.com/chrisandcarolyn/knoppix38-for-windows.png       An ubuntu version will be greater ;)
[09:30] <kagou> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/16/0210216&from=rss
[09:30] <fabbione> kagou: that is running knoppix in qemu
[09:30] <fabbione> everybody can do that
[09:30] <fabbione> even you
[09:30] <fabbione> with ubuntu
[09:31] <kagou> it's a cd all made (may be the live cd of ubuntu can do that ?! )
[09:32] <fabbione> you mean it runs automatically qemu to boot and so on?
[09:32] <fabbione> yeah i see
[09:32] <kagou> yes, you put the cd on the drive and it launch automatically this
[09:33] <kagou> Image, you boot on the ubuntu live and you have ubuntu, you put ubuntu on the drive under windows and you got this (qemu)
[09:33] <kagou> it's a GREAT feature
[09:33] <mjg59> That would be neat
[09:36] <kagou> i always hav my problem with dma. I must had "hdc=noprobe hdc=cdrom" to grub whereas hal crash. So i don't have DMA cdrom enabled. And i can't enable it. Whereas if i boot with ubuntu live my cdrom drive works fine and DMA is enabled.....
[09:37] <Treenaks> kagou: what kind of controller?
[09:38] <kagou> via
[09:38] <Treenaks> via what?
[09:38] <kagou> via82cxxx on  notebook with amd64
[09:40] <kagou> Treenaks, http://forum.hardware.fr/hardwarefr/MiniPCPortablesPDA/sujet-1459-1.htm
[09:41] <Treenaks> I've seen that
[09:41] <Treenaks> I just don't have a clue about your problem
[09:41] <kagou> yep nobody have an idea :/
[09:42] <pitti> daniels: I just saw that you fixed the libXPM issue foar Hoary
[09:43] <pitti> daniels: in your next upload, can you please add the CAN-2005-0605 to the changelog entry?
[09:44] <daniels> pitti: oh yeah, sure
[09:44] <daniels> pitti: i've got an xfree86 source for you in a bit, too
[09:44] <pitti> cool
[09:56] <kagou> why can't i open a distant file shared by samba with openoffice. It's seems that only gnome software can do that no ?
[09:56] <Treenaks> kagou: everything using gnomevfs can do it
[09:57] <kagou> openoffice do not use this no ?
[09:57] <Treenaks> not that I know of.. but I don't use openoffice.. only abiword & gnumeric
[10:03] <kagou> So under gnome, how can i mount a smb share, allowing me to open an xls file with openoffice ?
[10:03] <Kamion> meh, ok, from what svenl said I guess I hosed tzsetup-udeb. damn.
[10:03] <daniels> Kamion: g'morning
[10:03] <Kamion> yo
[10:03] <fabbione> hey Kamion 
[10:04] <daniels> Kamion: lost tzsetup-udeb, gained greek support; you win some, you lose some ;)
[10:06] <Kamion> uh
[10:06] <Kamion> Replaces: rstart, rstartd, xbase-clients (<< 6.8.3-4), [...] 
[10:06] <Kamion> daniels: I'm sure that wasn't the version you meant
[10:06] <daniels> Kamion: FRIG
[10:06] <daniels> Kamion: i mean, thanks.
[10:06] <Kamion> ;)
[10:06] <jordi> mvo: ping
[10:06] <Kamion> shouldn't be fatal though
[10:06] <daniels> it's orright, i have some more changes to push anyway
[10:07] <jordi> mvo: apparently, I fucked up yesterday and failed to link agianst ncursesw.
[10:07] <daniels> good catch though
[10:07] <kagou> or is there a way to use smbmount/smbumount with nautilus ? (may be a script)
[10:07] <jordi> it seems nano should be ok with ncursesw.
[10:07] <jordi> I will try again now.
[10:10] <daniels> pitti: chinstrap:~daniels
[10:10] <mvo> jordi: all right, just keep me updated when there is something new to test
[10:12] <jordi> mvo: I'm building
[10:17] <daniels> er
[10:17] <daniels> so does anyone know where you upload warty-security to?
[10:17] <daniels> do I just fire it at jackass and hope for the best?
[10:18] <jordi> mvo: wow, this apparently works just ok
[10:18] <jordi> mvo: introduces libncursesw dep tho
[10:19] <mvo> jordi: what does upstream think about the snapshot? does he feels it's pretty stable? or should we rather wait ?
[10:20] <Nafallo> nano? *crosses fingers*
[10:20] <jordi> mvo: he thinks 1.3.6 is near releasing.
[10:20] <jordi> I *believe* that would be a good version for Hoary.
[10:21] <toresbe> hmmm
[10:21] <toresbe> I'm concidering installing hoary on me laptop
[10:26] <kagou> i'm sorry but i can't find "File/Script" under nautilus ... is it normal ?
[10:26] <kagou> or in the help file of nautilus it's like that
[10:28] <elmo> daniels: please coordinate with pitti
[10:28] <mvo> jordi: can I download the test-package somewhere :) ?
[10:28] <elmo> and don't just randomly upload - undoing broken security uploads is an annoying amount of work for me
[10:29] <jordi> mvo: uploading in a min
[10:29] <daniels> elmo: i talked to pitti who told me to upload and that he'd prepare the usn text when he got near bandwidth
[10:29] <daniels> elmo: and this one builds ok for me in a warty chroot
[10:29] <mvo> Mithrandir: around?
[10:30] <Mithrandir> mvo: pong
[10:30] <elmo> daniels: if your conversation didn't include where to upload to, I think you still need to talk to him :P
[10:30] <kagou> sorry, i must logout and login to make the File/Script menu appear in nautilus ... :/ it's bad
[10:30] <daniels> elmo: sorta hard given he left before I could ask
[10:30] <daniels> elmo: but er yeah, it's been fired at jackass in any case (before you responded)
[10:32] <elmo> sigh
[10:32] <daniels> recommend killing it now if it needs to be killed
[10:33] <dholbach> elmo: morning! could you please sync:  asterisk pstngw ?
[10:38] <fabbione> jdub: ping?
[10:40] <jordi> mvo: pd.o/~jordi
[10:40] <elmo> dholbach: done
[10:41] <dholbach> elmo: thanks :-)
[10:41] <mvo> jordi: thanks, downloading
[10:43] <dredg> elmo: what dholbach said, but s/asterisk pstngw/phpbb2/ :)
[10:43] <Nafallo> mvo jordi: was that nano utf8-support I saw? :-)
[10:43] <jordi> Nafallo: yah
[10:44] <Nafallo> jordi: YAY! nice work! :-)
[10:45] <jordi> Nafallo: http://people.debian.org/~jordi/nano_1.3.5-cvs-0.0_i386.deb
[10:45] <mvo> jordi: still no luck here, I can type certain german umlauts (,<-capital)
[10:46] <jordi> mvo: damn
[10:46] <Nafallo> jordi: yepp, but no amd64 ;-). I'll just take the sources :-)
[10:48] <daniels> sabdfl: yo!  how are the alps?
[10:48] <daniels> if that's indeed where you are
[10:48] <sabdfl> high all :-)
[10:48] <ogra> pitti, found my bug ;) there as missing a else in another function
[10:48] <sabdfl> daniels: ^
[10:48] <ogra> hi sabdfl 
[10:48] <ogra> hehe
[10:49] <Kamion> pointy mountains
[10:49] <jordi> mvo: I see it
[10:50] <mvo> jordi: you can reproduce it?
[10:50] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[10:51] <smurfix> hey sabdfl. Good skiing?
[10:52] <jordi> yes
[10:52] <jordi> I'll tell david
[10:52] <sabdfl> smurfix: i'm trying hard to look good moving at high speed on my face
[10:52] <jordi> sabdfl: hey
[10:52] <sabdfl> hiya jordi
[10:52] <jordi> sabdfl: we need to talk about the May thing. Email, phone?
[10:53] <smurfix> sabdfl: Practice makes perfect ;-)  and the abrasion gives you health-looking skin. Eventually ;-)
[10:53] <sabdfl> jordi: mail easier, or sms me your phone number and i'll try call this eve
[10:53] <jordi> sabdfl: basically we need an "official" confirmation that you'll attend, and then plan the other details. I don't know how or who handles this stuff for you.
[10:54] <jordi> sabdfl: ok
[10:54] <jordi> enjoy the skiing. (bastards! ;)
[10:54] <sabdfl> i do try to avoid the skiing bastards and just hang out with other boarding doodz
[10:55] <pitti> Hi sabdfl, welcome back
[10:55] <sabdfl> sometimes a collision with a skiing bastard is inevitable, though
[10:55] <pitti> :-)
[10:55] <sabdfl> pitti: not quite back yet, just taking a break from my holiday
[10:55] <pitti> ah
[10:57] <Treenaks> pitti: Uphill skiing tends to be harder :P
[10:57] <jordi> sabdfl: ah, I haven't tried snoboard
[10:57] <jordi> +w
[10:58] <daniels> sabdfl: ah, you're boarding?
[10:58] <smurfix> Treenaks: Uphill skiing is *work*. Not my idea to spend a holiday at.
[11:00] <pitti> Treenaks: oh, I do cross-country a lot, which involves a lot of uphill :-)
[11:04] <jordi> mvo: if you see other things, please tell.
[11:06] <mvo> jordi: ok
[11:07] <jordi> mvo: I just sent mail to nano devel
[11:08] <mvo> jordi: thanks!
[11:09] <Kamion> svenl: just uploaded base-config 2.62ubuntu12 to fix the tzsetup-udeb crash you reported, thanks; will build new CDs as soon as it's in the archive
[11:09] <svenl> Kamion: he.
[11:10] <svenl> Kamion: is it possible to do preseeding from the netbooted yaboot.conf to set the url for package download to my apt caching proxy ? 
[11:11] <Kamion> svenl: might be, but it's fiddly - today's netboot image should ask you for the mirror, though
[11:12] <svenl> Ok.
[11:12] <Kamion> d-i mirror/http/countries select enter information manually
[11:12] <Kamion> d-i mirror/http/hostname string your.hostname
[11:12] <Kamion> d-i mirror/http/directory string /ubuntu/or/whatever/
[11:12] <svenl> i just need the new initrd.gz, right ? 
[11:13] <Kamion> probably want new vmlinux too, we just did a kernel ABI change
[11:13] <svenl> Kamion: the above is for the preseeding, right ? 
[11:13] <Kamion> yeah
[11:13] <svenl> Kamion: well, i downloaded the new vmlinux a couple hours ago, i g...
[11:13] <Kamion> from /installer-powerpc/current/?
[11:13] <svenl> wait, i don't even need to download a new vmlinux/initrd.gz
[11:14] <svenl> yeah, that is something i wanted to ask you, the place i downloaded the stuff from, the last it has is march 10.
[11:14] <svenl> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/daily-installer-powerpc/current/
[11:14] <Kamion> right, use installer-powerpc/ for the moment rather than daily-installer-powerpc/; not sure what's happened to the dailies
[11:15] <Kamion> but I uploaded a proper d-i yesterday so that should be good for now
[11:15] <Kamion> OH
[11:15] <svenl> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/main/installer-powerpc/current/ then.
[11:15] <Kamion> lamont: please re-enable daily d-i builds
[11:15] <Kamion> d'oh, we forgot to turn them back on after the preview, it seems
[11:16] <jdub> eek :|
[11:16] <svenl> BTW, it would be nice if the web pages somehow showed the effective date too or something.
[11:16] <Kamion> svenl: yeah, dunno why archive.ubuntu.com doesn't over HTTP; if you use FTP instead, it should show you
[11:16] <dholbach> bon jour seb128! :-)
[11:16] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[11:17] <seb128> hi
[11:17] <pitti> seb128: I'm at the uni again (still no network), but some guy on u-devel mentioned a libgnomecups fix
[11:17] <seb128> yep
[11:17] <pitti> seb128: I can't test this here, but it sounds promising :-)
[11:17] <svenl> Ok, nice.
[11:18] <Kamion> smurfix: cool, new keyboard selector stuff is nice
[11:19] <smurfix> Kamion: I sure hope so. ;-)
[11:20] <smurfix> Kamion: The one major problem I'm having with it is that switching languages confuses kbd-chooser -- it stores translated stuff in debconf
[11:20] <Kamion> svenl: main thing lacking from the new yaboot-installer is a screen to tell you what OF variables to set
[11:20] <Kamion> svenl: I'll port that over from nobootloader as soon as I get a chance
[11:20] <smurfix> Kamion: Fortunately people usually don't do that.
[11:20] <Kamion> smurfix: yeah, switching languages confuses several things actually
[11:20] <pitti> seb128: hmm, actually it was a different bug. What a pity :-(
[11:21] <Kamion> smurfix: like you end up with extra packages installed for all the languages you picked
[11:21] <jordi> muh
[11:22] <fabbione> is anybody familiar with usb and usb2 hardware? 
[11:22] <smurfix> fabbione: somewhat
[11:22] <smurfix> fabbione: What's the problem?
[11:23] <fabbione> smurfix: there is something i am not really able to understand. my machine reports to have a USB2 controller. but if i plug a USB2 device in all the ports i can see outside the machine, it always get connected as USB1
[11:23] <Kamion> smurfix: I'm happy for that to be a "don't do that, then" item for hoary
[11:23] <fabbione> smurfix: at least according to lsusb
[11:23] <smurfix> fabbione: Does it work if you load only the ehci driver?
[11:23] <fabbione> the driver is already loaded
[11:23] <svenl> Kamion: ok.
[11:24] <smurfix> fabbione: remove the uhci driver then
[11:24] <svenl> Kamion: did you have a chance to investigate the post-reboot failure i had ? Or at least see if you can duplicate it ? 
[11:24] <dholbach> elmo: did you already sync mysql-dfsg-4.1 from sid? if not, could you do please? it contains a security fix
[11:24] <smurfix> (or ohci, depending on your hardware)
[11:24] <fabbione> smurfix: but the phisical ports are shared?
[11:24] <smurfix> fabbione: Yes :-/
[11:24] <fabbione> smurfix: ahhhh that explains
[11:25] <fabbione> thanks
[11:25] <Kamion> svenl: I couldn't duplicate it on my Pegasos
[11:25] <svenl> Kamion: and should the yaboot executable not be distributed as part of the netboot dir ? 
[11:25] <svenl> Kamion: strange.
[11:25] <Kamion> svenl: yeah, it really should
[11:25] <smurfix> fabbione: driver load order *sometimes* makes the problem go away
[11:25] <Kamion> pxelinux is for other arches, after all
[11:25] <smurfix> fabbione: ditto turning off legacy support
[11:25] <Kamion> added to the ever-growing todo ...
[11:26] <fabbione> smurfix: i am acutally trying to reproduce #7633
[11:26] <smurfix> fabbione: Lemme check
[11:26] <svenl> Mmm, a kernel with fixed gigabit ethernet would be nice too, hopefully we will have that for tomorrow.
[11:26] <svenl> fabbione: i have the patch, no need to test.
[11:26] <fabbione> svenl: ????
[11:26] <svenl> no->now :)
[11:27] <svenl> Kamion: mmm, it only proposes me us.archive.ubuntu.com, nothing more.
[11:28] <svenl> and going back and entering the value manually fails.
[11:29] <Kamion> svenl: which country did you select?
[11:29] <svenl> us i think.
[11:29] <Kamion> ok, that's kind of a feature :)
[11:29] <Kamion> although going back and entering manually should work ...
[11:29] <svenl> :)
[11:29] <svenl> mmm, he doesn't like me entering 192.168.1.2:9999
[11:30] <Kamion> does it crash out (red screen)?
[11:30] <svenl> yep, but it may be my caching proxy which is playing tricks.
[11:31] <Kamion> I had it working for my local mirror with expert mode yesterday; haven't yet tried the new choose-mirror
[11:32] <Kamion> the general intent of which was to offer mirror configuration without expert mode
[11:32] <svenl> Kamion: as said, need to check my apt-caching proxy setup, since it is a new one i am trying to package.
[11:32] <Kamion> ah, ok
[11:32] <Kamion> syslog should have details of what broke
[11:33] <svenl> Kamion: wget -q http://192.168.1.2:9999/ubuntu//dists/hoary/Release
[11:34] <smurfix> fabbione: Depending on your hardware you may not be able to reproduce the bug; I've asked the reporter to try swapping the load order / turn off legacy
[11:35] <smurfix> fabbione: ... and the way the BIOS initially sets up the ports -- all of this is exactly the kind of backwards compatibility mess USB was supposed to prevent ;-)
[11:35] <svenl> Ah, ... the apt proxy cacher dislike the // syntax.
[11:35] <svenl> but i am told no kernel modules are found now :/
[11:36] <fabbione> smurfix: clearly
[11:36] <svenl> Mmm, the installer Packages file still contains -27 kernel modules :/
[11:36] <pitti> elmo: please sync: mozilla-locale-de-at mozilla-locale-da mozilla-locale-fr mozilla-locale-it mozilla-locale-ptbr
[11:37] <svenl> Filename: pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.10/affs-modules-2.6.10-4-powerpc-di_2.6.10-27_powerpc.udeb
[11:37] <svenl> when is the ubuntu mirror pulse ?
[11:38] <svenl> Oh fun, fr.archive.ubuntu.com didn't pick up yet the -28 kernel.
[11:46] <Kamion> no idea when the mirror pulse is, it'll vary I guess
[11:46] <Kamion> I doubt they're all push mirrors
[11:46] <Kamion> could just try archive.ubuntu.com for now
[11:46] <svenl> fr.archive.ubuntu.com has yesterday's package list.
[11:49] <Kamion> ok, things looking reasonably good for Array CD 7 with the exception of the incoming base-config bug fix
[11:55] <svenl> daniels: ok, the pcigart fallback will not be applied.
[11:55] <svenl> daniels: what do you propose then ? Adding the BusType PCI if on pegasos ? 
[11:56] <daniels> svenl: (but the xresprobe patch is good and I'll do that)
[11:56] <daniels> svenl: to be honest I'm not sure I even want to do that -- that would be the first time we've ever added a custom driver option
[11:56] <daniels> and I'm not really keen on starting to do so now ...
[11:58] <svenl> daniels: write in the release notes : if you are on pegasos, and want DRI support, edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf and add option "BusType" "PCI" to the right place ? 
[12:00] <daniels> svenl: i'm not the release notes man, i'm afraid, but that seems pretty sensible to me
[12:01] <svenl> daniels: it is not a major problem, as X will work, altough sub-optimally, but it should be documented somewhere.
[12:01] <daniels> svenl: right
[12:02] <svenl> daniels: do you have a log of the conversation or something ? 
[12:02] <daniels> svenl: basically, having a busted gart can give us really weird problems, and I'd rather have perfect rendering everywhere (but slow in some cases) than massive graphical glitches and 3D everywhere
[12:02] <daniels> svenl: yeah, somewhere
[12:03] <svenl> daniels: a busted gart -> a busted pci gart ? 
[12:03] <pitti> seb128: just logged out and back it; I don't have a stale dbus instance any more :-)
[12:04] <pitti> seb128: do you? if not, then the bug should be closed
[12:04] <daniels> svenl: yeah, if you have a pci gart where you should have an agp gart, and things end up going wrong
[12:04] <daniels> pitti: mmm ... i'm going to fix it fo'real in dbus tonight
[12:04] <svenl> daniels: i don't understand this.
[12:04] <dholbach> elmo: could you please also sync  libpri  from sid?
[12:05] <daniels> svenl: well, imagine you have a proper agp radeon right, on a proper agp bus
[12:05] <daniels> svenl: but your agpgart is broken in the kernel, so you can't set up an agp gart
[12:05] <daniels> svenl: if you fall back to a pci gart here and try to set that up, there are some cases where things can go badly wrong
[12:06] <pitti> daniels: does it still happen to you?
[12:06] <svenl> daniels: this will only be a problem if there is supposed to be an agpgart, but it breaks for something else than your northbridges not being supported by agpgart ? 
[12:06] <daniels> svenl: right -- if you don't have the right module loaded or something
[12:06] <svenl> daniels: so what ? It is a kernel bug which needs fixing, no ? 
[12:06] <daniels> pitti: no, but it should still be fixed properly :)
[12:06] <daniels> svenl: not really
[12:06] <daniels> svenl: it could be a configuration issue
[12:06] <daniels> svenl: what I'm trying to say is that falling back to a PCI GART on AGP cards will cause problems sometimes
[12:07] <svenl> daniels: so the problem is how to distinguish the case where there is no agpgart from the one where the agpgart is just broken.
[12:07] <daniels> svenl: michel didn't merge that patch into x.org for exactly that reason
[12:07] <svenl> yeah, but what alternate solutions can we use, if you refuse to add the BusType, and the fallback solution is broken.
[12:08] <svenl> i will speak with michel about that, he too has pegasos hardware, so there should be chances that he has some idea.
[12:08] <svenl> Kamion: there is mkvmlinuz as part of ubuntu base, but no support for it in the kernel ? 
[12:10] <daniels> svenl: well, ideally there wouldn't be any AGP cards on PCI busses in the world, but it seems that that is not so
[12:10] <seb128> pitti: I've reassigned the bug to daniels who knows what to do apparently :)
[12:10] <daniels> svenl: we discussed also walking the PCI tree to see if the parent was a PCI->PCI bridge with AGP capabilites, but that won't work either
[12:11] <daniels> svenl: in many cases, the bridge will be a sibling of the card, because PCI doesn't specify that the bridge must be the parent (sigh)
[12:11] <pitti> seb128: gosh, these utopia bugs are killing me. everything works just perfectly for me on both computers...
[12:11] <svenl> daniels: with such reasoning we would all use windows on lousy x86 hardware.
[12:11] <pitti> seb128: can you reproduce any of it? (mounting at login, mounting at runtime, etc.)
[12:11] <ogra> pitti, which one ? 
[12:11] <pitti> ogra: ALL OF THEM
[12:11] <pitti> ogra: :-)
[12:11] <ogra> pitti, thom still has it it seems
[12:12] <svenl> daniels: what about motherboards where the agpgart is not yet supported in the kernel -> no DRI for them ? 
[12:12] <ogra> pitti, i dont see it here either
[12:12] <thom> fraid so, yeah
[12:12] <pitti> ogra: I think the slow hal is still an issue
[12:12] <pitti> thom: ^ 
[12:12] <daniels> svenl: well, yeah
[12:12] <Kamion> svenl: no, mkvmlinuz is not in Ubuntu base; it's only in main due to a build-dependency from debian-installer
[12:12] <ogra> pitti, not here...
[12:12] <pitti> ogra, seb128: I rather mean the g-v-m/hal/gamin issues
[12:12] <svenl> Kamion: "an error was returned while trying to install the kernel into the target system" :/
[12:12] <ogra> pitti, h-d-m is fully populated (got it in my session on startup)
[12:12] <pitti> ogra, seb128, thom: #7616
[12:13] <thom> seb128: also, 7711 looks like it's a problem with nautilus/gamin
[12:13] <seb128> thom: an idea on #7717 ?
[12:13] <svenl> nothing particular in base-installer/kernel/failed-install
[12:13] <Kamion> svenl: oh, damn. I wonder why I didn't see that.
[12:13] <thom> seb128: files are downloaded to Desktop and then they don't show up
[12:13] <jdub> yeah
[12:13] <Kamion> mdz,jdub: can I add mkvmlinuz to ship, please?
[12:13] <jdub> desktop handling seems b0rk
[12:13] <svenl> nothing particular in syslog.
[12:13] <jdub> there's another gamin released, which i'll upload soon
[12:13] <Kamion> svenl: oh, of course, I didn't see it on netboot for obvious reasons, will be a problem on CD-ROM
[12:14] <seb128> where is gamin 0.0.26 ?
[12:14] <seb128> we can't debug on outdated versions
[12:14] <seb128> jduuuuuub
[12:14] <ogra> pitti, i'm pretty sure its not hal
[12:14] <svenl> Kamion: i don't follow you on this, what is the problem ? 
[12:14] <jdub> :-)
[12:14] <thom> seb128: hrm, i'll look
[12:14] <seb128> and there is no way to speak to DV if you run an outdated version
[12:14] <seb128> the stock reply is "update first"
[12:14] <Kamion> svenl: actually - with yaboot support, we can just tell base-installer not to install mkvmlinuz on chrp_pegasos
[12:15] <svenl> Kamion: i am not sure the mkvmlinuz is the problem, is it ? 
[12:15] <Kamion> svenl: what's in /var/log/messages?
[12:16] <svenl> MD5Sum mismatch on linux-restricted-modules.
[12:16] <svenl> mmm.
[12:16] <svenl> i will do an install without apt cacher proxy.
[12:16] <seb128> pitti: #7616 works just fine here
[12:16] <Kamion> svenl: ah, that would do it, yes
[12:17] <pitti> seb128: I'm typing a reply; can a non-running g-vfs-daemon be the culprit?
[12:17] <ogra> pitti, 7616 works here too
[12:17] <ogra> pitti, sure
[12:17] <seb128> pitti: could, but I don't see a reason why it would not be running
[12:18] <ogra> pitti, or a not running g-v-m
[12:18] <pitti> I just asked for another full debugging cycle...
[12:21] <pitti> anyway, if it works on many machines, it's certainly not RC
[12:22] <seb128> right
[12:22] <ogra> yop
[12:25] <pitti> seb128: #7641 - this is supposed to work, right?
[12:26] <thom> seb128: also, dingus clicking is seriously whacky; i have the url underlined, but sometimes don't get the Open Link or Copy Link Location options
[12:27] <ogra> pitti, works for me with an nfs mount, but it has the user option set
[12:27] <pitti> ogra: well, it needs the user option anyway, I suppose
[12:27] <pitti> ogra: but it doesn't work for me, if I change fstab, the new user volume does not appear
[12:27] <ogra> pitti, the reporter doesnt talk about it
[12:30] <pitti> seb128: I have an idea; this worked before, but in Warty it directly monitored /etc/fstab. Now g-vfs uses hal, right?
[12:31] <seb128> hum
[12:31] <seb128> lemme read the few lines and the bugs
[12:31] <pitti> seb128: if I add something to /etc/fstab, it should appear in the Computer menu
[12:31] <seb128> it does here
[12:32] <svenl> daniels: what about putting bustype into a debconf variable, which we can preseed or set from the installer ?
[12:32] <daniels> svenl: radeon-specific driver option
[12:33] <seb128> pitti: if that doesn't work dynamically that could be #6088
[12:33] <pitti> seb128: oh, indeed. iz gamin boog :-)
[12:33] <ogra> works here, even with such weird things like /dev/hdx
[12:33] <seb128> thom: clicking where ?
[12:34] <pitti> ogra: hmm, doesn't work for me
[12:34] <seb128> gamin is the crap
[12:34] <thom> seb128: on g-t, right clicking on urls (aka dingus clicking)
[12:34] <ogra> pitti, just added:  /dev/hdx        /media/hdx      ext3    user,noauto     0       0
[12:34] <pitti> ogra: and it appears in computer and places?
[12:34] <ogra> and i have a hdx in the computer win
[12:34] <pitti> hmm, not for me
[12:35] <pitti> at least _one_ bug I can reproduce
[12:35] <ogra> pitti, not in the places menu
[12:35] <seb128> that works for sure here, I've taken some screenshots for GNOME 2.10 and computer was changing as soon as /etc/fstab is modified
[12:35] <seb128> yeah
[12:35] <ogra> seb128,  what about places ?
[12:35] <seb128> places menu is #6088
[12:35] <seb128> gamin monitoring b0rked
[12:35] <seb128> that does that for gtk bookmarks too
[12:35] <seb128> and the recent documents
[12:36] <seb128> clear recent documents works for you ?
[12:36] <pitti> seb128, ogra: ah, I know
[12:36] <pitti> it does work if the mountpoint is below /media
[12:36] <seb128> sometime that works, sometime not
[12:36] <pitti> but not if it is e. g. /mnt, as in my case
[12:36] <pitti> seb128: /media is treated specially in gamin, right?
[12:37] <seb128> right
[12:37] <seb128> it's doing some polling to not block umount
[12:37] <seb128> instead of using dnotify
[12:37] <pitti> so if it works with /media, but not with /mnt, is this #6088?
[12:37] <seb128> no
[12:37] <seb128> 6088 is the monitoring of a single file
[12:37] <seb128> ie: ~/.gtk-bookmarks
[12:37] <pitti> seb128: okay. g-vfs is also special-casing /media
[12:37] <pitti> seb128: so I debug this there
[12:37] <Kinnison> Hi guys
[12:37] <ogra> why wouldnt it work with recent docs ? 
[12:37] <pitti> Hi Kinnison 
[12:38] <ogra> hi Kinnison 
[12:38] <seb128> nice pitti
[12:38] <seb128> hi Kinnison 
[12:38] <seb128> mvo: here ?
[12:38] <Kinnison> seb128: is there a known issue with evo sometimes not syncing IMAP state when you close it down?
[12:38] <svenl> Kamion: mmm, getting the stuff from us.archive.... i have the timezone error again :/
[12:39] <seb128> Kinnison: not sure if there a bug, but I've noticed that this week
[12:39] <mvo> seb128: yes
[12:39] <seb128> mvo: do you know if #6088 is still here ? 
[12:40] <mvo> seb128: I need to check, but it should work with the dnotify backend I guess
[12:40] <pitti> bah, now it works even with /mnt. What a mess
[12:40] <mvo> seb128: are you working on it right now?
[12:41] <seb128> mvo: we are trying to do some bug cleanup in the gamin/mount/.. issues
[12:41] <seb128> and I would like to figure what's fixed or not
[12:41] <Kinnison> seb128: if I can work out how to reproduce it reliably I'll let you know; but I'm glad I'm not the only person seeing the behaviour sometimes
[12:41] <seb128> Kinnison: k, thanks
[12:41] <mvo> seb128: give me some minutes and I can tell you
[12:41] <seb128> mvo: thanks, there is no hurry
[12:42] <pitti> seb128: can you please upload gamin 1.0.0 which fixes all bugs?
[12:42] <pitti> seb128: unfortunately I forgot the upstream URL....
[12:42] <ogra> pitti, mnt works here too, even with hdx
[12:42] <pitti> ogra: yeah, I try it again with a clean session (just logged out/in)
[12:42] <ogra> pitti, i'm sure he can quickly wirte it :-P
[12:42] <seb128> pitti: ask jdub, he's the brave gamin maintainer :p
[12:43] <pitti> ;-)
[12:43] <seb128> jdub: give us the crack
[12:43] <seb128> duuuude
[12:43] <ogra> quick
[12:43] <daniels> seb128: that dbus thing totally sounds like a gtk bug, dude
[12:43] <jdub> seb128: when i get home; at debsig atm :-)
[12:43] <pitti> this bloody, bloody gvfs
[12:44] <seb128> aaaaahhhhhhh
[12:44] <pitti> ogra: /dev/hdx        /mnt            reiserfs        defaults,user,noauto,ro 0 0 -> works
[12:44] <pitti> ogra: hdx does not exist
[12:44] <seb128> stop blamin gtk, gvfs or whatever :p
[12:44] <ogra> pitti, ah, i tried /mnt/hdx
[12:44] <seb128> daniels: session should handle it ?
[12:44] <ogra> pitti, here neither
[12:44] <pitti> ogra: but with /dev/hda4 (which _does_ exist) it doesn_t work
[12:44] <pitti> ogra: can you please try with a really valid partition?
[12:45] <daniels> seb128: yeah, but gtk is much more convenient
[12:45] <daniels> seb128: (dbus's Xsession.d file needs to have --exit-with-session)
[12:45] <ogra> pitti, i ould try with a cf card, wait a sec
[12:45] <pitti> ogra: just try an existing one which is not mounted
[12:45] <Kinnison> daniels: does it not?
[12:45] <pitti> ogra: cf is already hotplugging
[12:45] <daniels> Kinnison: not afaict
[12:45] <daniels> Kinnison: but I've been busy with evermore X stuff and not got to 0.23.4 yet
[12:46] <Kinnison> if [ -n "$STARTDBUS" ] ; then
[12:46] <Kinnison>   STARTUP="$DBUSLAUNCH --exit-with-session $STARTUP"
[12:46] <Kinnison> fi
[12:46] <pitti> ogra: try your swap partition
[12:46] <Kinnison> on current hoary
[12:46] <Kamion> svenl: us.archive.ubuntu.com != archive.ubuntu.com, it probably hasn't synced yet
[12:46] <daniels> Kinnison: cock
[12:46] <daniels> Kinnison: gtk bug then
[12:46] <pitti> ogra: swap partition does not work for me either
[12:46] <Kinnison> daniels: *g*
[12:46] <seb128> or --exit-with-session b0rked
[12:46] <Kamion> svenl: gb.archive.ubuntu.com == archive.ubuntu.com, or just use a.u.c directly
[12:46] <dholbach> bbiab
[12:46] <daniels> Kinnison: hm, I wonder if --exit-with-session works properly with signals
[12:46] <daniels> Kinnison: i.e. start it, kill its parent with KILL, watch it fail to clean up?
[12:46] <Kinnison> daniels: quite possibly not. dbus-launch is utter cock
[12:46] <daniels> or something
[12:46] <daniels> Kinnison: yeah
[12:47] <svenl> Kamion: yeah guessed such.
[12:47] <ogra> pitti, only moans about the non existing mountpoint
[12:47] <Kinnison> daniels: sic sjoerd on it :-)
[12:47] <pitti> ogra: darn, it doesn't display at all with /dev/hda3
[12:47] <ogra> pitti, but shows up in computer
[12:48] <Kamion> svenl: I *did* only do the source upload an hour and a half ago or so :)
[12:48] <svenl> Kamion: :)
[12:48] <Kamion> but a.u.c has it now
[12:48] <ogra> pitti, sorry, made a mistake, youre right
[12:48] <ogra> typo
[12:49] <ogra> pitti, but my swap is mounted....probably g-vfs knows that ?
[12:49] <pitti> ogra: dunno, could be
[12:49] <mvo> seb128: it looks like #6088 works with dnotify
[12:49] <ogra> did you swapoff ?`
[12:49] <pitti> ogra: but it doesn't work either with an unmounted partition
[12:49] <seb128> mvo: k, feel free to close it then :)
[12:49] <pitti> ogra: no, I kept it mounted
[12:49] <daniels> Kinnison: nah, I'll take care of it, have other dbus stuff to do tonight anyway
[12:50] <ogra> pitti, let me try to manually unmount the cf card, then i can play with it...
[12:50] <Kinnison> daniels: cool
[12:50] <mvo> seb128: shouldn't we leave it open as a test-case for the inotify stuff?
[12:50] <seb128> mvo: dunno but any way to make it clear that's it should not be in the hoary scope ? the current situation with gamin issues is a mess
[12:51] <ogra> pitti, shows up, moans about the non existing mountpoint
[12:51] <seb128> that's not clear what is an issue or not
[12:51] <seb128> I don't really care about inotify if we use dnotify, that's just doing noise
[12:52] <mvo> seb128: I retitled the bug and added a explaination that it does work now with dnotify
[12:52] <seb128> thanks
[12:53] <pitti> argh
[12:53] <pitti> why doesn't the g-vfs package respect DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS?
[12:55] <seb128> ?
[12:55] <seb128> gnome-vfs2 you mean ?
[12:55] <seb128> it uses CDBS and it does
[12:55] <pitti> yeah
[12:55] <pitti> DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nostrip,noopt debuild -us -uc -b
[12:56] <pitti> still it's compiled with -O2
[12:56] <seb128> pitti: weird
[12:57] <pitti> CFLAGS="-O0"...  is passed to configure correctly
[12:57] <pitti> seb128: hmm, works now, seems I didn't clean properly. Sorry for the noise
[12:58] <seb128> np
[12:58] <seb128> pitti: http://lists.debian.org/debian-gtk-gnome/2005/03/msg00031.html
[12:58] <d3vic3> heh
[12:58] <seb128> another information that could be useful
[12:59] <pitti> after hibernating? yeah, I could ask this
[12:59] <pitti> although my laptop also resumed from sleep when I tried all this
[12:59] <pitti> (however, I reloaded the usb host controller modules)
[01:00] <pitti> seb128: gamin 0.0.26? does it fix more? :.-)
[01:00] <tseng> the fixes arent something that we've seen abundantly
[01:01] <pitti> seb128: is it possible to start g-vfs-daemon in the foreground in a console?
[01:02] <seb128> sure
[01:02] <pitti> everytime I kill it it respawns in the background
[01:02] <seb128> gnome-session-remove nautilus
[01:02] <pitti> ah, cool
[01:02] <seb128> killall gnome-vfs-daemon && /usr/lib/gnome-vfs2/gnome-vfs-daemon
[01:02] <pitti> thanks
[01:02] <seb128> np
[01:03] <pitti> seb128: then I see g_warning() and friends?
[01:04] <seb128> yep
[01:04] <svenl> Kamion: where is yaboot post-install ? 
[01:04] <svenl> usr/lib/yaboot/yaboot ? 
[01:05] <svenl> Kamion: ok rebooting with the generated yaboot.conf
[01:05] <Kamion> should be boot/yaboot
[01:05] <Kamion> I stuck a symlink in
[01:06] <Kamion> but usr/lib/yaboot/yaboot should work too
[01:06] <seb128> lunch time, bbl
[01:06] <svenl> Kamion: Ok, seems to work, the problem i had yesterday is not present.
[01:06] <svenl> will test boot/yaboot on next reboot.
[01:06] <Kamion> cool
[01:07] <Kamion> I uploaded yaboot-installer half an hour ago or so with some extra nobootloader-like text that gets displayed as a note
[01:07] <svenl> daniels: xresprobe fix is not yet in though.
[01:07] <svenl> Ok, but it was not yet used, i think, will try again later.
[01:07] <Kamion> yeah, not built yet
[01:08] <Kamion> in fact source not even in the archive yet
[01:08] <daniels> svenl: no, I'm still working on xresprobe, have other things to do for that upload
[01:16] <jbailey> thom: ping?
[01:19] <Kamion> hmm, I am totally amazed that CDs from the last four days have worked at all; override file generation was geb0rken
[01:19] <Kamion> oh well, fixed now
[01:20] <jordi> pitty?
[01:20] <jordi> er
[01:20] <jordi> bleh.
[01:20] <jordi> jbailey: yay. apparently it got accepted into the review queue :)
[01:21] <jbailey> Kamion: Hey, thinking of which.  ISTR that to create lvm/raid partitions, I used to select that instead of 'ext3', etc., but I didn't see it in the list on yesterday's daily or the one from 4 days before.  Where do I set that up now?
[01:21] <Kamion> jbailey: should still be there
[01:21] <jbailey> jordi: Which 'it'? =)
[01:21] <Kamion> jbailey: "physical volume for LVM" etc.
[01:22] <jbailey> Kamion: 'kay, I'll dig to figure out why it's not a bit later then.  
[01:22] <svenl> daniels: ok. you didn't reply to me about using a debconf variable for the bustype thingy though.
[01:22] <jordi> jbailey: the talk proposal
[01:22] <Kamion> it would be code in two places for no reason
[01:23] <svenl> Kamion: yeah, well.
[01:23] <jbailey> jordi: Yes, of course.  What I'm really impressed by is that I've received *no* requests for talks to be added after the deadline.  I think the closest to the wire was an email 8 minutes before. =)
[01:24] <Kamion> X fetches debconf stuff from d-i, but not the other way around :)
[01:24] <svenl> Kamion: do you see another solution ? pcigart fallback was rejected, and daniels don't want to do a check for pegasos and set the option.
[01:24] <svenl> Kamion: euh ?
[01:24] <Kamion> plus getting debconf questions to X from d-i requires rather special effort
[01:24] <svenl> Kamion: the idea is that we have per-subarch logic in d-i.
[01:24] <svenl> Kamion: so we just set one variable if we know we are on pegasos, and X then reads it or something.
[01:25] <Kamion> nope
[01:25] <Kamion> if the bustype facility's added at all, X should work it out for itself. I don't want the installer getting involved in that sort of thing.
[01:25] <svenl> Kamion: ok.
[01:25] <Mithrandir> jbailey: so I was the closest to the wire?
[01:25] <Kamion> At the moment, the installer's responsibility ends when X starts, and I very much like it that way
[01:25] <Mithrandir> yay me. :)
[01:25] <jbailey> Mithrandir: I'm trying to remember if it was you or taggart. =)
[01:25] <Kamion> it relieves the installer of having to care about X at all
[01:26] <svenl> Kamion: seems more logical to me too.
[01:26] <daniels> svenl: mmm, i'm kind of uncomfortable having debconf variables for specific options for a specific driver for a specific subarch, y'know?
[01:26] <Mithrandir> jbailey: taggart was like more than an hour.
[01:26] <daniels> that code is already horrible enough
[01:26] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Not when I got the email, though.
[01:26] <svenl> daniels: i still don't understand what metaphysical opposition you have in adding a line checking for pegasos and adding Bustype though.
[01:26] <Mithrandir> jbailey: possibly OF, since Matt's went through without moderation holdup.
[01:27] <jordi> jbailey: mine must have been that one
[01:27] <daniels> svenl: because we've never done it before for anyone.  the debconf code is already really really horrible and unmaintainable, and bloating that up with a whole bunch of hacks for specific machines (which are imo broken anyway) is just not the way to make it better.
[01:28] <svenl> daniels: would you accept a patch in the radeonfb driver which checks for pegasos and set UsePCI or whatever ?
[01:28] <svenl> err, radeon X driver even.
[01:31] <daniels> svenl: that sounds really horrible ... how do you check for that in an X driver, though?
[01:32] <svenl> daniels: so there is no solution to this ?
[01:32] <Mithrandir> daniels: fd = fopen("/proc/cpuinfo", "r"); :P
[01:32] <svenl> daniels: you read for the presence of a marvell MV643xx northbridge in the pci tree ? 
[01:32] <svenl> daniels: something akin to the following kernel code : 
[01:32] <svenl>         if ((ret = pci_find_device(PCI_VENDOR_ID_MARVELL, PCI_DEVICE_ID_MARVELL_MV64360, NULL))) {
[01:33] <svenl> We know if we find such a northbridge, that we cannot have agpgart, since this northbridge has only pci ports.
[01:33] <svenl> daniels: why ? 
[01:33] <daniels> that's ... it's really horrible
[01:34] <d3vic3> O.O
[01:34] <daniels> i know it works, but why should radeon_driver.c know about specific northbridges?
[01:34] <svenl> daniels: there is code in X for looking for the pci tree.
[01:34] <daniels> yeah, I know
[01:34] <daniels> but I just don't see why radeon_driver.c should have knowledge of how specific northbridges are wired?
[01:34] <svenl> daniels: because it otherwise set erroneously the UsePCI field ? 
[01:34] <daniels> i really, really still think that the root of this problem is putting an agp slot on a pci bus
[01:34] <daniels> and that no-one should ever does this
[01:34] <daniels> svenl: how's it erroneous?  the card's all like 'hey yeah i'm agp'
[01:34] <svenl> daniels: you know there are agp->pci converters and vice-versa ? I have seen those ? 
[01:35] <svenl> daniels: so what do you propose ? 
[01:35] <daniels> svenl: i assume those would be smart enough to mask out the agp cap field?
[01:35] <daniels> svenl: i propose fixing the hardware, honestly ...
[01:35] <svenl> daniels: mmm.
[01:35] <daniels> i'm just not sure that dri on those sorts of systems should *ever* be supported out of the box if it means horrible hacks like that
[01:35] <svenl> daniels: the agp cap field is something found in the pci config region of the card, right ? 
[01:35] <svenl> daniels: you are being despreciative.
[01:36] <daniels> svenl: yeah, it's found in the PCI config region
[01:36] <daniels> svenl: not really -- I mean, I'm sure you could come up with clean code
[01:36] <daniels> svenl: but radeon_driver.c is a *display* driver, dude!
[01:36] <daniels> why should it ever need to know anything about northbridges?
[01:36] <svenl> the pci config stuff is read through RTAS, so in theory i could fix the OF rtas callback to patch the pci config read for the agp bus.
[01:37] <Kinnison> Won't this change have to be made to every driver which might be for a card which could get plugged into the pegasos' slot?
[01:37] <daniels> svenl: err ... yeah, that would work, but that's also strikingly horrible
[01:37] <Kinnison> Or is the radeon wired onto the board?
[01:37] <svenl> daniels: right, the right place is to have a check in the configuration step to setup the BusType option, it is easy (1 line), and the right place, but you refuses it because you never had to do this before.
[01:37] <daniels> svenl: this sort of the thing is the reason why very, very few people have ever considered putting agp slots on pci busses, i'd imagine
[01:37] <daniels> svenl: no, and it should never have to be done
[01:38] <svenl> Kinnison: basically, the northbridge has two pci-x buses, and one is maskeraded as agp slot so people can easily find graphic cards to plug in it.
[01:38] <daniels> Kinnison: (iow, yes)
[01:38] <Kinnison> svenl: Oh dear god!
[01:38] <Kinnison> daniels: ergh
[01:38] <svenl> daniels: this is the sort of thing why very very few people do desktop hardware apart from cheap x86 hardware.
[01:39] <Kinnison> does the pci conf data get read via the kernel?
[01:39] <daniels> Kinnison: yeah, it's a blob
[01:39] <svenl> Kinnison: notice that ECS (second x86 motherboard manufacturer) does the same thing with agp-express.
[01:39] <daniels> http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/
[01:39] <daniels> er
[01:39] <daniels> http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/pcibustype.c
[01:39] <svenl> Kinnison: via rtas through the firmware.
[01:39] <daniels> basically, you check one bit to see if you have caps, then you look at a linked list and walk it to see if you have an agp cap
[01:39] <daniels> but doing that would potentially involve rewriting the entire capability field
[01:39] <daniels> consider the following situation
[01:40] <daniels> #1: power management capability, next capability #2
[01:40] <daniels> #2: agp capability, next capability #3
[01:40] <daniels> #3: some other capability, next capability 0x0
[01:40] <svenl> daniels: wait a minute, i have to make a phone call to our hardware guys, maybe there is a firmware level solution to this.
[01:40] <Kinnison> daniels: ergh!
[01:40] <daniels> now you can't just kill #2 completely, you'd have to set #1's next field to #2's next field, really
[01:40] <daniels> which is a really horrible hack
[01:40] <daniels> svenl: ok ... but honestly, no disrespect, ecs are known to make really cheap and shitty hardware
[01:41] <daniels> svenl: if you want to compare to x86 oems, ecs is not the one to aim for
[01:41] <svenl> Kinnison: do you know of a northbridge manufacturer who proposes powerpc northbridge with agp capacity ? If so please give us his coordinates.
[01:41] <Kinnison> svenl: Dunno; not a platform I care about
[01:41] <svenl> daniels: they did it, and you will encounter this problem in the future again.
[01:41] <daniels> svenl: dunno, but apple seem to have it working
[01:41] <daniels> svenl: ask them? ;)
[01:42] <daniels> svenl: i know we'll encounter this problem in the future, but that sort of setup is imo just so pathologically broken that we can't expect to support dri out of the box on it
[01:42] <svenl> daniels: do you seriously think apple will sell us northbridges, when they killed the OEM market a couple year back ?
[01:42] <svenl> daniels: so you think a release not is less work than a one line shell script fix ? 
[01:42] <daniels> svenl: i think it's a less bad idea
[01:42] <Kinnison> daniels: How hard would a server option of something like "-all-agp-is-pci" /
[01:43] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~xap% wc -l debian/xserver-xorg.{config,postinst}.in
[01:43] <daniels>  1633 debian/xserver-xorg.config.in
[01:43] <daniels>   732 debian/xserver-xorg.postinst.in
[01:43] <daniels>  2365 total
[01:43] <Kinnison> s@/$@be?@
[01:43] <svenl> Kinnison: there is a radeon driver config option : BusType PCI for that.
[01:43] <daniels> svenl: this is the sort of thing I have to contend with already.  now imagine if I start adding in checks for various subarchitectures, subsystems, all that sort of thing.  it's going to get huge, and unmaintainable, and one day I'm just going to snap and kick it all out of the debconf code, and we'll be back to square one.
[01:45] <daniels> svenl: so I'm just going to keep assuming that, given AGP and PCI are physically different, any AGP card is on an AGP bus
[01:45] <daniels> any PCIE card is on a PCIE bus, and any PCI card is on a PCI bus
[01:45] <daniels> there's a reason they're not pin-compatible
[01:46] <daniels> i think that, given the number of people who have these sorts of 'solutions', this is a reasonable thing to assume when the only penalty is losing DRI support out of the box
[01:46] <svenl> daniels: wait i speak with hw guys
[01:46] <daniels> svenl: ok
[01:49] <Mithrandir> svenl: dude, finding a supplier who sells AGP and PCIe Northbridges for PowerPC CPUs took me less than five minutes.
[01:49] <svenl> on the phone.
[01:49] <mvo> seb128: is nautilus-cd-burner supposed to work with dvd-rams?
[01:50] <svenl> Mithrandir: let me guess, it is Mai ? 
[01:50] <svenl> Mai logic even ? 
[01:50] <Mithrandir> yes
[01:50] <svenl> they happen to have non-working dma controller though.
[01:51] <Mithrandir> all their DMA controllers are broken?
[01:51] <daniels> surely you could say 'we'll pay you for agp+dma'
[01:51] <svenl> and refused to sell us more chips two years ago because they wouldn't admit their chip was buggy.
[01:51] <daniels> same to marvell
[01:51] <svenl> Mithrandir: they consider it a feature that dma or whatever only works in non-cache-coherent mode.
[01:52] <svenl> Mithrandir: which makes it unusable for desktop linux, or so said benh on debian-powerpc some time back.
[01:52] <svenl> daniels: ok.
[01:52] <daniels> not that agp and cache coherency play well together at all :P
[01:52] <seb128> mvo: I guess so, dunno the difference between the differents DVD types
[01:53] <svenl> daniels: i will implement a firmware level workaround to map out the agp cap, it is not trivial work though, and probably at least an order of magnitude more involved than fixing that as a config option.
[01:53] <mvo> seb128: hrm, I just had problems with it (kept telling me to insert a medium), but I will do some more testing
[01:53] <svenl> daniels: well, if we had unlimited amount of cache available, we could design our own northbridge like apple does.
[01:53] <daniels> svenl: i understand, but you'll have these problems also if someone plugs in, e.g., an nvidia card
[01:54] <daniels> svenl: and i know it's frustrating for you, but honestly, radeon_driver.c really isn't the place for it
[01:54] <daniels> if you put agp slots on a pci bus ... you get to fix it up
[01:55] <svenl> daniels: nvidia cards are evil, and there is no powerpc 3d support anyway.
[01:55] <svenl> daniels: i will fix it.
[01:55] <daniels> svenl: i know that, dude, but i'm just saying that you'll continue to have these problems across more than ati
[01:55] <jordi> mvo: found anything else?
[01:55] <daniels> and we'll be carrying that patch forever -- there's no way upstream would ever accept it (i wouldn't even bother trying)
[01:56] <svenl> daniels: as far as linux on powerpc is concerned, only ati is a solution.
[01:56] <daniels> so the pegasos would only work with ubuntu and older versions of debian, not with gentoo or whatever
[01:56] <svenl> daniels: only as long as it takes me to fix the firmware.
[01:56] <svenl> daniels: but the more stuff i add to the TODO list, the less chance i get to make a new firmware release before the hoary release, which is what i wanted.
[01:57] <daniels> svenl: right.  again, i understand that this sucks for everyone involved; i'm not doing this just because i hate you.
[01:57] <daniels> it's just that this is the best option for a) genesi/pegasos, b) ubuntu, c) xorg, d) pegasos users
[01:57] <svenl> ok, have to go now, will fix the firmware as best i can.
[01:57] <daniels> cheers
[01:58] <mvo> jordi: I didn't tested it much more, I don't have that much utf-8 documents (yet)
[01:58] <svenl> daniels: well, having the one line patch in for hoary and dropping it as soon as i fix the firmware would be another solution.
[01:58] <svenl> Kamion: ubuntu install finished
[01:58] <Kamion> cool, working?
[01:58] <jordi> mvo: nod
[01:58] <Kamion> I'm still waiting for xorg to mirror, since it's ahead of yaboot-installer in the list <mutter>
[01:58] <seb128> thom: nice try to blame nautilus :p
[02:00] <pitti> seb128: hah
[02:00] <pitti> (process:32655): libgnomevfs-CRITICAL **: gnome_vfs_get_uri_from_local_path: assertion `local_full_path[0]  == '/'' failed
[02:00] <pitti> Speicherzugriffsfehler
[02:00] <pitti> ^ SIGSEGV
[02:01] <svenl> Kamion: yep, but i have no mouse connected.
[02:01] <daniels> Kamion: and you win another xorg upload reasonably soon
[02:01] <seb128> pitti: utch
[02:01] <svenl> but i loged into X.
[02:01] <seb128> pitti: what do you do ?
[02:02] <Kamion> alt-f1 pops up a terminal I think
[02:02] <pitti> seb128: debug and fix it :-) (at least try to)
[02:02] <pitti> seb128: but this might be the reason why all the computer/places stuff does not work
[02:02] <svenl> Kamion: and the yaboot symlink in boot also worked.
[02:02] <pitti> seb128: becuase g-vfs-daemon starts over and over again
[02:02] <Kamion> svenl: next yaboot-installer directs people at boot/yaboot via a note
[02:02] <seb128> pitti: "what do you do" == "what do you do to get the crash"
[02:02] <ogra> pitti, hmm, could explain the hal slowdown too (if anybody still sees it)
[02:03] <Kamion> svenl: the symlink means that having separate /boot and / partitions probably won't work, though
[02:03] <Kamion> svenl: but I ran out of time to hack mkofboot
[02:03] <pitti> seb128: oh, just start it, and touch /etc/fstab
[02:03] <svenl> Kamion: mmm.
[02:03] <ogra> pitti, in fact also thims bug could be covered there
[02:03] <ogra> thoms even
[02:03] <svenl> Kamion: can you then : check if we have a separate /boot, and copy yaboot if we do so ? 
[02:03] <svenl> Kamion: alternatively we could put a symlink in /boot before mounting /boot :)
[02:04] <Kamion> svenl: as previously discussed, need to make mkofboot/ybin do the copy because there needs to be a trivial way to update the copy of yaboot there
[02:04] <pitti> seb128: hmm, touch is not enough. but saving in an editor triggers the segfault
[02:04] <svenl> Kamion: ok.
[02:04] <Kamion> and mkofboot is really the right place, it's exactly analogous to installing the bootloader in the bootstrap partition on other subarches
[02:04] <svenl> Kamion: altough i distrust mkofboot, it will just reformat /boot if we are not carefull.
[02:04] <svenl> Kamion: ok.
[02:04] <Kamion> and eventually it could update the nvram etc.
[02:05] <Kamion> (once the OF facility's there)
[02:05] <pitti> seb128: ah, there is another messsage before, saying "unable to stat /etc/fstab"
[02:05] <pitti> seb128: this is certainly at the moment when vim creates a new file -> race condition
[02:05] <svenl> Kamion: i have updating the nvram through rtas also on my TODO list, but as daniels just added me an item, i am not sure i will make it.
[02:05] <Kamion> that's why I didn't have time, I needed to hit mkofboot with a largish hammer
[02:05] <Kamion> svenl: the yaboot-installer note's fine for hoary, certainly
[02:06] <svenl> Kamion: what about making sure /boot or / is a yaboot readable partition though ? 
[02:06] <Kamion> svenl: oh yeah, probably need to do partman finish.d hooks
[02:07] <Kamion> I have your list written down
[02:07] <seb128> pitti: doesn't crash here while editing with gedit
[02:07] <svenl> i think yaboot can do : ext2/3 reiser and xfs.
[02:08] <svenl> and apart from that resorts to the OF, which can do the ones of the list i gave you.
[02:08] <svenl> Something is fishy with yaboot though, since it has iso reading code, so why does it fallback to fs_of for cds ?
[02:08] <Kamion> it doesn't have ISO reading code
[02:08] <Kamion> it has fs_iso.c, but if you look at it, it's just a stub
[02:08] <svenl> fs_iso.c:iso_read(      struct boot_file_t*     file,
[02:08] <Kamion>      return FILE_ERR_BAD_FSYS;
[02:09] <Kamion> it's a stub, like I say
[02:09] <svenl> Ah, ok.
[02:09] <Kamion>  *  fs_iso.c - a non-implementation for the ISO9660 filesystem
[02:09] <svenl> makes sense then.
[02:09] <Kamion> I don't know why it's there
[02:09] <svenl> nor me, and i am not interested.
[02:09] <Kamion> I imagine benh meant to write it but never got round to it
[02:10] <robtaylor_> fabbione: ping?
[02:11] <svenl> Kamion: the real problem is that benh gave over maintainership to Ethan, who didn't do is job.
[02:11] <svenl> Kamion: (and that is benh speaking)
[02:12] <d3vic3> Kamion, #7729, #7730, #7731, #7733
[02:13] <d3vic3> I think this guys just keeps send coz there is no reply 
[02:13] <d3vic3> s/guys/guy/
[02:14] <svenl> Kamion: ok, now i only need to get the gige patch in, and daniels needs to upload a fixed xresprobe, and you need to add the note and the partman stuff, and the rest is firmware level support i need to write.
[02:14] <trukulo> daniels, one thing (this channel for this question) atitvout doesn't work with ati driver, but with vesa in xorg
[02:14] <svenl> Kamion: or is it something else you see missing ? 
[02:14] <trukulo> anything related to vbe, do you know anything bout it?
[02:15] <daniels> trukulo: yeah, i'm working on tv out support for the radeon driver in my free time
[02:15] <daniels> trukulo: but i haven't had a chance to work on it in weeks, unfortunately
[02:15] <trukulo> daniels, ati igp i mean :(
[02:16] <trukulo> does radeon works with igp for tvout? (for normal use, works very well)
[02:16] <trukulo> if you need test user, here i am
[02:16] <daniels> trukulo: well, it will when I'm finished with it ;)
[02:16] <daniels> ah awesome, thanks -- I'll grab you when it's done
[02:16] <trukulo> when you can, of course
[02:16] <daniels> might be a while tough, real life is lots of fun right now
[02:16] <trukulo> i'm not in a hurry :)
[02:16] <daniels> rad
[02:33] <Kamion> d3vic3: sigh ...
[02:33] <Kamion> svenl: the note's done, partman stuff is minor but I'll look at it
[02:33] <daniels> svenl: fixed xresprobe is already upload
[02:33] <daniels> +ed
[02:34] <Treenaks> daniels: scary, scary changelog
[02:35] <daniels> Treenaks: i try
[02:35] <kagou> seb128, martin pitt est sur irc ? si oui quel pseudo stp ? (en supposant que tu le connaisses bien sur ;) )
[02:35] <seb128> pitti
[02:35] <mvo> does anyone else having problems copy-n-paste text from emacs to gtk-apps?
[02:35] <kagou> sorry for this french message
[02:35] <daniels> (for what it's worth: the reason I consider that change worthwhile is because we *can't* just assume every card ever supports 24bpp, so probing to see whether they do is worthwhile)
[02:35] <pitti> kagou: EDONTSPEAKFRENCH :-)
[02:35] <kagou> :p
[02:36] <Treenaks> daniels: there must be an easier way to probe though
[02:36] <seb128> pitti: that's why you are bothered with language packs :p
[02:36] <ogra> pitti, er hat gefragt ob seb dich kennt ;)
[02:36] <jordi> pitti: duuude
[02:36] <daniels> Treenaks: yeah, we could theoretically probe via vbe, but most vendors seem happy to ship with incomplete vbe mode lists
[02:36] <seb128> ogra: I spreche deutsch :p
[02:36] <jordi> pitti: is there any daily iso that includes ca already?
[02:36] <daniels> Treenaks: also, doesn't work on !i386 until after hoary
[02:36] <seb128> s/I/ich/
[02:36] <pitti> jordi: today's should
[02:37] <ogra> seb128, oops *g*
[02:37] <jordi> pitti: kewl
[02:37] <ogra> seb128, mon francais est tres bete
[02:37] <Kamion> jordi: careful to get 20050316.1, 20050316 was hosed
[02:37] <seb128> ogra: in fact that's not true, but I can sort of read it (8 years or german at school)
[02:37] <jordi> Kamion: thanks
[02:37] <daniels> Kamion: so, uh, you know how your mirror was hurting from xorg?
[02:38] <Kamion> yeah
[02:38] <daniels> Kamion: how's it feeling now?
[02:38] <Kamion> still is, as a matter of fact
[02:38] <daniels> oh
[02:38] <daniels> that would be amusing, then
[02:38] <Kamion> next mirror run won't be until tonight :P
[02:38] <daniels> heh
[02:38] <ogra> seb128, i had 5 years of french, was my worst subject, but two months normandie tought me a lot
[02:38] <daniels> well, don't schedule any other bandwidth-crunching tasks for tonight
[02:38] <ogra> taught even
[02:41] <pitti> ogra: I learned Russian for 8 years :-) no french at all
[02:41] <Treenaks> pitti: in some ways they're alike...
[02:41] <Treenaks> (like most European languages are "alike")
[02:42] <ogra> pitti, at lest you could survive in the eastern countrys, i couldnt :)
[02:43] <trukulo> you don't need language to survive in a country
[02:43] <trukulo> you better have money ;)
[02:43] <Kamion> daniels: do I need xorg 6.8.2-5 for Array CD 7, then?
[02:43] <Treenaks> trukulo: waving a credit card tends to work :)
[02:44] <trukulo> Treenaks, or don't lose your pants as jeff
[02:44] <Treenaks> trukulo: he's good at that
[02:44] <trukulo> credit card and wearing pants assure you a good stay in a country
[02:46] <pitti> Treenaks: huh? Russian is not an European language, it has completely different roots
[02:47] <Kamion> Russian is Indo-European
[02:47] <ogra> Kamion, breezy is official now ?
[02:47] <Kamion> ogra: not AFAIK
[02:48] <jdub> (*cough* it'll be official in the next couple of hours when my mail goes out *cough*)
[02:48] <Treenaks> breezy what?
[02:48] <ogra> Kamion, breezy...not that its official
[02:48] <jdub> badger
[02:48] <Kamion> ogra: (notwithstanding jdub's comment, we heard him say "bendy" a lot, too)
[02:48] <ogra> yep
[02:48] <ogra> but breezy was the last i heard ;)
[02:49] <dholbach> BreezyBadger?
[02:49] <Treenaks> omg
[02:51] <daniels> Kamion: want, yes; need, no
[02:51] <daniels> Kamion: -4 is fine for a7
[02:51] <Mitario> hi everyone
[02:52] <Kamion> daniels: ok, may well just go with that then
[02:52] <trukulo> who's the genius putting names to releases?
[02:52] <Kamion> since otherwise I incur a lot of build time
[02:52] <trukulo> lol
[02:52] <Kamion> trukulo: Mark, generally
[02:52] <mvo> hey Mitario 
[02:52] <thom> seb128_: i think blaming nautilus is quite reasonable
[02:52] <daniels> Kamion: right -- the other thing is that, being the last array, it needs to be tested to shit first
[02:52] <Kamion> with other conspirators
[02:52] <daniels> Kamion: which knocks things back a fair bit
[02:52] <trukulo> Kamion, don't let him, he's getting mad
[02:52] <Kamion> daniels: right. (there's a release candidate in two weeks, though.)
[02:52] <Mitario> mvo, did the gnome sysadmins respond?
[02:53] <Kamion> but yes
[02:53] <daniels> kami	yeah
[02:53] <trukulo> or tell him next name is LionLeonardo
[02:53] <trukulo> heh
[02:53] <thom> jbailey: ack; i'm not eager to reboot right now since my sata controller is not entirely happy
[02:53] <daniels> Kamion: i'll just use the next daily to go around at my local big weird-shit electronics store and hopefully throw in all the laptops there to test
[02:53] <daniels> Kamion: they have all the bizzare stuff, like 14" widescreens with 1280x768
[02:53] <mvo> Mitario: not yet ... once they do, we can start moving :)
[02:53] <Mitario> mvo, yeah :)
[02:54] <Kamion> trukulo: I strongly suggest not trolling Mark with naming suggestions; you just might find them getting accepted
[02:54] <Kamion> daniels: daily-live might be a bit better ;)
[02:54] <Kamion> but good plan
[02:54] <trukulo> Kamion, uh oh /clear
[02:55] <daniels> Kamion: yeah, live
[02:55] <daniels> Kamion: the plan is to go around with a CD and a USB key and save logs and stuff from everything that doesn't work
[02:55] <daniels> that's assuming, of course, that they let me
[02:55] <daniels> i'll go armed with a bunch of warty CDs, my Ubuntu t-shirt, and my radiant charm
[02:56] <seb128_> http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/
[02:56] <seb128_> you have seen that ?
[02:56] <evarlast> seb128_: yes, I shed a tear :(
[02:56] <thom> daniels: the first two should be fine, the third is utterly doomed
[02:56] <thom> what ubuntu t-shirt, by the way? :P
[02:57] <trukulo> daniels, better s/charm/cookies or something like that
[02:57] <zul> hey
[02:57] <ogra> thom, we are preparing MOTU shirts ;)
[02:57] <Treenaks> ogra: cool :)
[02:58] <daniels> ogra: much better if you just have t-shirts bagging thom
[02:58] <ogra> and one very special edition.....
[02:58] <daniels> ogra: http://storetn.cafepress.com/0/15425670_F_store.jpg
[02:58] <daniels> sorry, that link should be http://www.cafepress.com/keybuk.15425670
[02:58] <ogra> the "mdz groupie" shirt *g*
[02:58] <daniels> ogra: 'moby is my cto'
[02:58] <ogra> yay
[03:00] <mvo> daniels: your evil today :)
[03:00] <daniels> i would totally go for a 'moby is my cto' shirt
[03:01] <Treenaks> daniels: with or without the picture?
[03:01] <ogra> omg, so much text....the girls have to come very near to read it ....was that intentional by Keybuk ?
[03:01] <Kinnison> ogra: I doubt it :-)
[03:02] <ogra> Treenaks, with two....find the right one ;)
[03:02] <ogra> Kinnison, *g*
[03:02] <Treenaks> ogra: http://www.cafepress.com/keybuk.15425670?zoom=yes#zoom
[03:02] <Treenaks> ogra: makes it easier
[03:02] <daniels> Treenaks: either
[03:02] <ogra> hehe
[03:05] <daniels> Treenaks: http://pictures.yukidoke.org/debianweek/aak
[03:06] <Treenaks> daniels: eeep!
[03:07] <Kamion> biggest sunglasses EVAH
[03:07] <d3vic3> heh
[03:07] <mvo> daniels: sooooooo great :)
[03:08] <jdub> aaargh, xorg update hurts my mirror! :)
[03:08] <Treenaks> daniels: how about http://pictures.yukidoke.org/fluffy/aar
[03:09] <daniels> jdub: THIS IS ONLY THE BEGINNING
[03:09] <daniels> jdub: dbus, dbus-mono and another xorg to come
[03:10] <tseng> daniels: 23.2?
[03:11] <daniels> tseng: .4
[03:12] <tseng> hm =/
[03:12] <daniels> ?
[03:12] <daniels> no api/abi changes
[03:12] <daniels> just about 97% less memory leakage
[03:12] <daniels> -> beagle for hoary
[03:12] <daniels> (not in main, mind)
[03:12] <evarlast> o_O
[03:12] <tseng> whiprush said beagle works with .2 and not .3
[03:13] <tseng> for some reason
[03:13] <tseng> we'll see.
[03:13] <daniels> bong
[03:13] <daniels> we'll find out :)
[03:13] <tseng> indeed
[03:14] <tseng> bbl
[03:17] <jdub> daniels: no api/abi changes?
[03:18] <daniels> jdub: NONE WHATSOEVER
[03:18] <jdub> NONE WHATSOEVER?
[03:18] <Hannes_> hth
[03:19] <Hannes_> 1617.24 < jdub> daniels: no api/abi changes?
[03:19] <jdub> daniels: seriously? they fixed the symbol change upstream?
[03:20] <daniels> jdub: yeah.  it's badly broken for 0.3x, but I managed to convince them to keep 0.2x api/abi-stable.
[03:20] <jdub> rockin', good stuff :)
[03:20] <daniels> jdub: they add new shit, which is fine, but afaict everything else should be a-ok
[03:21] <thom> jbailey: ping?
[03:21] <daniels> jdub: so, in other news, can we PLEASE get mono into main for breezy
[03:22] <jdub> haha
[03:22] <daniels> jdub: keeping dbus-mono broken out is a serious pain
[03:22] <jdub> yeah
[03:22] <jdub> it seems likely
[03:22] <jdub> hopefully 1.2
[03:22] <thom> daniels: we'll move to 1.1/1.2 so it should be ok, guess tseng is the man of the moment on that one
[03:22] <Treenaks> jdub: Now with less memory loss?
[03:25] <daniels> oh, frig
[03:25] <jbailey> thom: Heya!
[03:26] <daniels> can we live with all mono apps being rebuilt against new dbus?
[03:26] <daniels> ** (/usr/lib/tomboy/Tomboy.exe:16946): WARNING **: Could not find assembly dbus-sharp, references from /usr/lib/tomboy/Tomboy.exe (assemblyref_index=4)
[03:26] <daniels>      Major/Minor: 0,23
[03:26] <daniels>      Build:       0,0
[03:26] <daniels>      Token:       9eef2692033670f5
[03:26] <daniels> noting that build is now 4,0, and token is some other md5sum
[03:26] <jbailey> thom: DidItWorkDidItWork? =)
[03:26] <daniels> tseng: do we win?
[03:26] <thom> jbailey: yepyep
[03:27] <thom> and my sata controller didn't kamikaze this time, either
[03:27] <daniels> tseng: afaict, only tomboy and muine depend on libdbus-cil -- is it safe to rebuild these?
[03:27] <thom> so it's a double win
[03:27] <daniels> tseng: i.e. will you care if I upload libdbus-cil 0.23.4-1
[03:27] <jbailey> thom: What?  I don't think you had mentioned that bit before.
[03:27] <thom> jbailey: oh, yeah. my sata controller had a hissy fit this morning and refused to upload its firmware for a few hours. nothing to do with hotplug#
[03:28] <jbailey> thom: Oh good.  Just to confirm though.  It loaded ide-generic last in the last of pci bits, right?  It ought to have, but I want to make sure that it didn't wind up calling into pci.rc multiple times.
[03:29] <thom> jbailey: looked that way, yes
[03:29] <jbailey> thom: Lovely, thanks.
[03:29] <thom> np
[03:30] <tseng> daniels: actually according to tomboy upstream, dbus is flakey in tomboy, and they say build it out
[03:31] <jbailey> Kamion: It's only the init.d/hotplug file that you replace in the installer, right?  Everything else is from the hotplug package?
[03:31] <tseng> daniels: ive not seen it, but if we hit problems id be happy to --disable-dbus or wahtever
[03:31] <tseng> daniels: rebuilding muine *shouldnt* be a big deal
[03:31] <tseng> thom: mono 1.2?
[03:32] <sivang> hi all
[03:32] <tseng> thom: so far ive been pretty hesitant to make changes to the core ahead of debian
[03:32] <thom> tseng: yeah
[03:32] <tseng> thom: but they are putting a low priority on it =/
[03:32] <daniels> tseng: sweet.  i'll give it some testing with hal/tomboy/muine/beagle, and if we're good to go, i'll upload soon
[03:32] <tseng> daniels: sweet
[03:33] <thom> meh; you have access to pkg-mono on alioth? i'd just branch in there so they can work and review with you, but this looks like a case where we need to leed
[03:33] <thom> lead
[03:33] <daniels> tseng: tomboy's fine
[03:33] <Kamion> jbailey: yeah
[03:33] <tseng> rock
[03:33] <pitti_laptop> daniels: I released xfree86
[03:34] <jbailey> Kamion: Cool, thanks.
[03:34] <Kamion> jbailey: um - do we need a hotplug change for Array CD 7? like, urgently?
[03:34] <sivang> pitti_laptop: hey, still not home network? ;-/
[03:34] <pitti_laptop> sivang: no, still in the uni
[03:34] <sivang> pitti_laptop: I see
[03:34] <pitti_laptop> sivang: this might be so for the next one or two weeks
[03:35] <daniels> pitti_laptop: awesome, thanks mate
[03:36] <thom> pitti_laptop: what happened to legendary german efficiency? :-)
[03:36] <jbailey> Kamion: It's something like looks a bit like 1440, but is solved differently.  I've had one report of it only, though.
[03:36] <pitti_laptop> thom: wrt my network?
[03:37] <jbailey> Kamion: I have another sata bug is seems that might be the same thing which definetly won't make array 7.  My best guess is that I wouldn't worry about it for array 7, for this few people I can point them to a nightly.
[03:37] <pitti_laptop> thom: the admin went to holidays and nobody has the passwords *gar*
[03:37] <pitti_laptop> thom: I hope that he does not do a three-year world tour
[03:37] <Kamion> jbailey: ok, good; it'd take a d-i initrd rebuild etc.
[03:38] <thom> pitti: oops
[03:38] <daniels> tseng: muine's fine with a rebuild also
[03:38] <tseng> daniels: sweet
[03:39] <pitti> thom: and I can't even complain; it's not a company, but a club, and they don't guarantee net access
[03:39] <daniels> now for BEAGLE
[03:39] <pitti> thom: (I don't get DSL here)
[03:39] <ogra> pitti, hey but you got a lot of fiber in the street ;)
[03:39] <thom> pitti: oh, right. you have a shared T1 for your appartment complex or something?
[03:39] <pitti> ogra: yeah, that's the irony
[03:40] <daniels> thom: when I was there for aKademy, a couple of the trains I caught were late.  disappointing. :\
[03:40] <pitti> thom: in a central place in the city there are 4 DSL wires; access is distributed over the city through directed beams and WLAN
[03:40] <ogra> thom, when they built up eastern germany they exchanged _everything_ with fiber, even the last mile...so no dsl in e-germany :-P
[03:40] <pitti> thom: it's called "citizen net"
[03:41] <thom> daniels: heh
[03:41] <pitti> thom: yeah, we have the world's most modern telephone net here, but nobody sells you fast connections but the one big monopoly company
[03:41] <thom> pitti,ogra: weird, and kinda suckful
[03:41] <pitti> thom: indeed :-)
[03:41] <ogra> thom, but telecom is still in the decision process wether its usefull to rip out all the fiber again and put copper in again 
[03:42] <pitti> ogra: not _really_???#
[03:42] <maswan> ogra: It's still good if you can do the last 100m with copper though, cat5&co is much nicer for the end switches.
[03:42] <pitti> thom: well, in 8 months I move house anyway
[03:42] <thom> pitti: heh, hope you get internet connectivity back before then
[03:42] <pitti> me too :-)
[03:43] <ogra> maswan, the prob is that there is no copper in the last 100m now ;) and it costs billions to change it back
[03:43] <pitti> otherwise I will play Tom Hanks and always hang around at the Uni floor (well, not quite the airport) :-)
[03:43] <tp_> is anyone aware of the particularly nasty bug in the current hoary oocalc?
[03:44] <pitti> tp_: I only know the crash if you delete a line
[03:44] <thom> daniels: on amd64? ;P
[03:44] <tp_> it's the change in behaviour so inserting cells moves all the rows down by default
[03:45] <maswan> ogra: copper is what you put in when you do the building network for ethernet to all apartments.
[03:46] <maswan> ogra: having fiber to rent between your building and an ISP, that's good. :)
[03:47] <daniels> sensational, and I didn't even break g-v-m
[03:48] <lamont> Kamion: reenabled
[03:48] <lamont> want me to kick them too?
[03:48] <Kamion> lamont: nah, no need
[03:48] <Kamion> thanks
[03:48] <tp_> instead of overwriting... It was introduced by novell (not ooo) and is fixed in 1.1.3-24 : http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=15527 http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=40204
[03:48] <daniels> Kamion: hold on a minute.  when are you rolling a4?
[03:48] <daniels> er, a7
[03:48] <Kamion> yesterday's d-i upload is fine for array 7
[03:48] <daniels> Kamion: as in, should I wait to upload dbus and dbus-mono?
[03:48] <Kamion> daniels: er, was kind of hoping that the CD build I did earlier would be enough ...
[03:48] <Kamion> but I haven't confirmed yet
[03:49] <tp_> pitti: it could seriously mess with peoples data and they may not notice..
[03:49] <daniels> Kamion: righto
[03:49] <daniels> Kamion: let me know when you know and I'll uploa
[03:49] <daniels> d
[03:49] <Kamion> ok, my mirror is STILL munching on xorg so I don't want to start cdimage downloads yet
[03:49] <pitti> tp_: please file a bug
[03:49] <Kamion> if other people want to test 20050316.1, feel free, that'd be welcome
[03:50] <Kamion> mmm, sorry, make that 20050316.2
[03:50] <Kamion> 20050316.1 was the broken one
[03:51] <daniels> Kamion: heh
[03:51] <daniels> Kamion: (sorry)
[03:51] <daniels> Kamion: if it's any consolation in the form of karma, my amd64 just hung
[03:53] <smurfix> Kamion: install and/or live?
[03:54] <daniels> Kamion: huzzah
[03:54] <Kamion> elmo: please update germinate on jackass
[03:54] <Kamion> smurfix: both
[03:54] <thom> Kamion: yay, time for ubuntu-server-foo seeds ;-)
[03:55] <Kamion> thom: I was *slightly* more concerned with fixing germinate on warty, but yeah :)
[03:56] <sivang> pitti: I have a new debdiff at the same location of my pkgs, would you take a look and confirm then I would continue with l10n?
[03:56] <jbailey> thom: That reminds me that I should check the wiki bug I filed about it not letting accounts be created.
[03:56] <pitti> sivang: URL?
[03:56] <jbailey> thom: I've got a few people around here really interested in helping with serverteam test installs and such.
[03:57] <smurfix> Kamion: Will test live as soon as rsync'd -- currently it thinks it has 30k bandwidth and needs 5h, both of which is nonsense
[03:57] <Kamion> oh, I need to look at some server issues with initial-passwd-udeb, yeah
[03:57] <Kamion> smurfix: rsync often lies
[03:57] <Kamion> temporarily, at least
[03:58] <smurfix> Kamion: I know, but knowing that doesn't speed it up ;-)
[03:59] <tp_> pitti: there has been a bug report since 20th feb? (5679 ) the report seems to suggest the possibility that it's not really a problem unless it affects oo2. The bug is fixed in ooo-build (1.1.3-4 I beleive - it was an upstream build problem) I was wondering if a new oo1.1.3 is being released soon. I will add a bug report though. Thanks for the response
[04:00] <thom> jbailey: awesome
[04:00] <thom> Kamion: he
[04:00] <thom> h
[04:00] <pitti> haggai: ^ tp_, any idea?
[04:01] <jbailey> thom: Nope, wiki bug is still there, so I'll be adding things on their behalf for now I guess.  No biggy.
[04:05] <pitti> seb128: gnome-session-remove nautilus does not help to stop g-vfs-daemon from respawning
[04:05] <pitti> seb128: and g-s-r gnome-vfs-daemon hangs
[04:07] <sivang> pitti: http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/g-c-m/sivan-gcm-crack.diff
[04:08] <sivang> pitti: sorry, it's not refreshed. I don't get it, refreshing 
[04:12] <sivang> pitti: ok, refreshed
[04:12] <sivang> pitti: the same URL
[04:14] <pitti> sivang: up to the inconsistent indentation in browsing_set(), it looks fine
[04:15] <sivang> pitti: you want me to correct it?
[04:15] <pitti> sivang: it's only a nitpick
[04:18] <sivang> pitti: ok, I will fix those as well as adding l10n
[04:20] <lamont> 200KB/sec.  not shabby for a 32kbyte/sec throttled rsync of an iso.
[04:20] <lamont> (neighbor imposed a 256kbps limit, you see... :)
[04:37] <mvo> Kamion: when today will array-7 be build? I have some medium well tested uploads ready and would like to wait for after that with them :)
[04:37] <Kamion> mvo: I can't quite say yet
[04:37] <Kamion> it may have already been built, but I haven't tested those images ...
[04:37] <Kamion> and I heard a rumour in a bug that they were still broken
[04:38] <mvo> Kamion: will it help if I download and test? 
[04:39] <Kamion> mvo: yes please
[04:39] <mvo> 0316.2 is the current one?
[04:40] <Kamion> yes
[04:40] <mvo> ok, downloading
[04:43] <janc> stupid question: why must the version number of xfonts-* and other data(?) packages like that go up together with those of xorg (or whatever package they are needed for)?
[04:43] <mvo> I learned today that I can't burn a dvd image to a dvd-ram with nautilus or k3b ... bugger. I guess I need to get a dvd-rw for that
[04:43] <mvo> (the hoary-dvd image of course :)
[04:43] <Kamion> janc: because we don't have modular X yet
[04:43] <Kamion> janc: they're all built from the same source package so they all get rebuilt
[04:45] <daniels> janc: because the build system, which wasn't even a great idea in 1986, continues on to this day and has been extended and hacked into some several-hundred-megabyte horror show that everyone hates
[04:45] <daniels> janc: (trust me, I'm not excited about the hour-long rebuilds every time I typo something)
[04:45] <janc> and it's not easy for an automated build proces to check if they changed I guess...  :)
[04:45] <Kamion> janc: it's not that, they MUST be in separate source packages if their version numbers are not to increase
[04:45] <fabbione> robtaylor_: pong
[04:46] <Kamion> janc: so the build system HAS to be split out in order for that to work
[04:46] <zul> hey fabbione 
[04:46] <janc> I was more thinking about the users: not everybody likes to downloads all those megabytes for no good reason  :-)
[04:46] <daniels> which involves groundbreaking amounts of work
[04:46] <daniels> janc: oh, I know
[04:46] <Kamion> janc: we know that, but you asked why, and we told you :)
[04:46] <daniels> janc: i have to copy the huge debs around, watch the huge builds go past, upload the huge source (new upstream version takes about 45min to upload), and then download the new debs for 4 architectures every time I roll a new version
[04:47] <cc> daniels: still didn't get your DSL sorted out ?
[04:47] <daniels> janc: it took around six months to just split out the build system for the server, and even then there were some pretty big gaps in the coverage there; it's a huge task, unfortunately.
[04:47] <daniels> cc: i've got dsl at home now, but 50mb tarballs aren't generous to any uplink
[04:48] <janc> yeah, I read something about splitting Xorg before, didn't know how bad/difficult it was though...
[04:48] <daniels> incredibly difficult, but not at all bad
[04:48] <daniels> something I've personally been pushing for for over a year now
[04:49] <cc> daniels: agreed. do xdeltas help?
[04:49] <daniels> cc: not hugely; since the whole thing gets repacked, it tends to screw everything to hell
[04:49] <Kamion> cc: the filenames change, which generally makes that sort of thing hard, too
[04:49] <daniels> cc: (plus, the diff between 6.8.1 and 6.8.2 was >130,000 lines)
[04:50] <tp_> pitti: thanks... bug comment posted
[04:50] <cc> gah. 
[04:50] <Kamion> tp_: he's gone
[04:53] <sivang> Kamion: did he say when he is coming back?
[04:55] <lamont> daniels: and to think that the third number is supposed to indicate bug-fix level..... 
[04:57] <Kamion> sivang: 15:32 -!- pitti [~pitti@141.30.117.20]  has quit ["Have a nice day"] 
[04:57] <Kamion> sivang: in other words I have no idea
[04:57] <lamont> sivang: I would expect at least 3-4 hours, given a comment elsewhere
[04:58] <robtaylor_> fabbione: i've been having some weird ipv6-realated issues on my hoary system recently
[04:59] <sivang> Kamion: ok, thanks
[04:59] <robtaylor_> fabbione: when a gethostbyname occurs, 1st a ipv6 dns query is sent out, and then when this fails, it waits up to 30 seconds before continuing with an ipv4 request
[04:59] <daniels> lamont: i think you underestimate the amount of bug fixing that went on
[05:00] <robtaylor_> fabbione: this started occuring for me around the middle of last week. any ideas what could cause this?
[05:01] <lamont> daniels: no.  I just fear its prior state...
[05:05] <fabbione> robtailor_: bad dns servers. the RFC is clear and your machine is doing the right thing
[05:05] <daniels> robtaylor_: welcome to my life. :)
[05:05] <daniels> er
[05:05] <daniels> lamont: ^^
[05:07] <sivang> seb128: ping, how should I add my changes for a po file of a package? (g-c-m) 1)cdbs-edit-path my-code-patch; in /po make update-po; exit 0 ;==> added to the code patch or 2)diff -u orig.he.po new.he.po ?
[05:07] <lamont> daniels: and I'm more glad than ever that you're on it.
[05:07] <sivang> seb128: doing (1) has bloated my debdiff as it appears that the whole po files has changed.
[05:07] <seb128> sivang: diff -u po/file.org po/file is fine
[05:08] <sivang> seb128: and drop that in debian/patches right?
[05:08] <daniels> lamont: should I take that as a compliment ('I'm glad it's you that's handling it, because you're awesome'), or as a put-down ('I'm glad that it's you that's stuck in this nightmare')? :)
[05:08] <lamont> daniels: both. :-P
[05:08] <daniels> heh
[05:09] <seb128> sivang: correct
[05:09] <lamont> glad someone capable is on top of it, also glad it's not me...
[05:09] <Kamion> urgh, apt-setup behaviour on netboot is really not fun
[05:09] <robtaylor_> fabbione: eh?
[05:09] <robtaylor_> fabbione: what should the dns servers do?
[05:10] <lamont> robtaylor_: it sounds like the DNS server is dropping the request, rather than replying with an error??
[05:10] <robtaylor_> reply to the ipv6 request with an ipv4 reply?
[05:10] <robtaylor_> no it returns back a 'i didn't understand that  query'
[05:11] <robtaylor_> fabbione: http://pastebin.ca/7519
[05:11] <robtaylor_> (trimmed ethereal log)
[05:11] <daniels> Kamion: ok, I'm rsyncing the CD now (0316.2) to do a test install on amd64, but can't do one on my laptop right now, sorry
[05:12] <Kamion> sure, np, I'm starting my test cycles now
[05:12] <daniels> your mirror spankage stopped?
[05:12] <Kamion> gave up and ctrl-ced it
[05:12] <jbailey> thom: ping?
[05:13] <Kamion> it'll catch up overnight
[05:13] <daniels> (the point I'm working from, though, is a rather old jigdo I did, so it may take a fair while)
[05:13] <thom> jbailey: ack
[05:15] <jbailey> thom: Found a slight logic bug.  Do you have a sec to test a new hotplug iteration?  Sending me the output from a hotplug restart will be all I need.
[05:15] <thom> sure
[05:16] <thom> jbailey: same place as last time?
[05:17] <jbailey> thom: Not yet, just tossing it up.  (It's a new rev)
[05:18] <jbailey> thom: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/hotplug_0.0.20040329-16ubuntu17_all.deb
[05:21] <jordi> mvo: ping
[05:21] <jordi> mvo: I'm doing a new package. :)
[05:23] <jordi> hmm. only savannah seems broke.
[05:23] <jordi> muh
[05:23] <thom> jordi: nano makes the universe cry
[05:24] <jordi> thom: yeah baby
[05:25] <sivang> seb128: regarding my last question, I think I have misexpressed myself, other the the changes to he.po file, all the other po files changed due to my new strings in g-c-m, how do I prepare this to be patched?
[05:25] <jordi> GNU nano 1.2.0 released!
[05:25] <jordi>      posted by jordi, Thu 02/20/2003 at 05:15 - 0 replies
[05:25] <jordi> fuck
[05:25] <seb128> sivang: ?
[05:25] <jordi> it's been a while since the last stable release.
[05:25] <jordi> this sucks
[05:26] <seb128> sivang: you have a patch for the code changes and you "diff -u po/.. po/... > debian/patches/nn_po.patch"
[05:26] <seb128> that's all
[05:26] <mvo> jordi: cool!
[05:26] <mvo> jordi: that was quick :)
[05:26] <mvo> jordi: ping me when there is something to download
[05:26] <sivang> seb128: ok cool, I was missing that, so I diff the whole po directory, also, what does "nn" stand for? (in nn_po.patch)
[05:27] <lamont> jordi: if it's not being maintained, should we just drop it. :-)
[05:27] <seb128> sivang: a number
[05:27] <sivang> seb128: what does it represent?
[05:27] <seb128> nothing
[05:27] <seb128> you can order the patches by number
[05:27] <seb128> just follow what the package is doing
[05:28] <sivang> seb128: ah ok, so the patch would be applied last
[05:28] <sivang> seb128: thanks!
[05:29] <jordi> lamont: it is maintained
[05:29] <robtaylor_> fabbione: if that is non-rfc complient, a) could you give me more info i can go to psinet and tell them, and b) psi net is a very major provider, so this'll hit a lot of other people, and from the reply its obvious to tell that the dnsserver doesnt support AAAA requests.
[05:29] <jordi> lamont: it is taking a while to complete 1.4.0 though.
[05:29] <jordi> lamont: there have been 1.2.x releases since then
[05:29] <jordi> lamont: but 1.4.0 is nearly there.
[05:30] <lamont> jordi: sorry - just pulling your leg
[05:30] <jordi> oh, heh.
[05:30] <jordi> everyone wants to kill nano
[05:30] <lamont> jordi: only because it's now preferred over vim for $EDITOR
[05:30] <lamont> and yeah, I _understand_ why.
[05:30] <ogra> yeah, thats annoying
[05:30] <lamont> and even agree with it.
[05:30] <lamont> I just don't like it
[05:30] <jordi> I know it annoys people. :)
[05:31] <jordi> lamont: yeah... I guess that's going to be an amusing hoary feature :)
[05:33] <jbailey> jordi: Is it true that nano 1.4 is taking so long to come out because of the elisp interpretor? 
[05:34] <jordi> jbailey: nah, it's actually the rewrite to be an emacs component
[05:34] <thom> jordi: aww, not a bonobo component?
[05:34] <jdub> DUDES! WHOA!
[05:34] <jdub> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2005-March/000020.html
[05:35] <jordi> thom: not in the middle of the debonobisation of half of GNOME. :)
[05:35] <jordi> heh
[05:35] <thom> jordi: poor excuse
[05:35] <jordi> too bad that being around Canonical people makes stuff like that not a secret at all :)
[05:36] <jordi> thom: I know it'd be cool to embed nano in nautilus.
[05:36] <jordi> wait, nautilus doesn't do bonobo
[05:36] <ogra> huh :-O
[05:36] <jordi> thom: OMG, the gnome-nano-applet.
[05:36] <jordi> That would rock.
[05:37] <thom> ROFL
[05:38] <kylem> you guys get extra points for being more perplexing than debian.
[05:38] <ogra> hehe
[05:38] <kylem> at least your announcements are better.
[05:38] <jordi> jdub: this post is... weird. And you know. :)
[05:38] <lamont> jdub: woot
[05:39] <Mithrandir> daniels: uhm, when X goes in a loop trying to access /dev/dri, is there a nice solution?  AMD64, Radeon 9200 card.
[05:39] <jdub> kylem: ;)
[05:39] <ogra> Mithrandir, buying a nvidia ?
[05:39] <lamont> Mithrandir: remove the card from the machine, bring it to UDU, and beat the living &*%^)&% out of daniels with it?
[05:39] <lamont> then buy nvidia. :-)
[05:40] <Mithrandir> lamont: that's a possibility.  I do want to use it until then, though.
[05:40] <lamont> s/then/_then_/
[05:40] <Mithrandir> and I don't care about 3d, so it's not an issue
[05:40] <lamont> jdub: how much caffine was involved in writing that announcement?
[05:40] <Mithrandir> hm, turning off dri seems to fix the problem
[05:41] <lamont> Mithrandir: and I assume all of the solutions begin with "kill X" :(
[05:41] <jdub> lamont: you are wise beyond your years.
[05:41] <lamont> jdub: and that's saying something, to listen to daniels talk.... :)
[05:41] <Mithrandir> lamont: that's not a problem, I'm just setting this system up.
[05:42] <trukulo> joder la de cambios que hay en el upgrade
[05:42] <ogra> hmm, does anyone else see evo collapsing all the threads all the time recently ? 
[05:42] <trukulo> ups, sorry, i mean
[05:42] <trukulo> what a lot of problems in aptitude upgrade
[05:42] <trukulo> s/problems/changes
[05:42] <trukulo> i need to sleep :P
[05:43] <trukulo> it's asking me about everything , it's the same for final? or only in devel stages?
[05:43] <lamont> Kamion: so does hoary-live-powerpc have MacOS versions of the openCD?
[05:43] <daniels> holy god, I would just like to say that LVM and XFS kick arse
[05:43] <mvo> ping Mitario 
[05:43] <daniels> Mithrandir: goes into a loop?  startup?
[05:44] <Mitario> mvo, pong
[05:44] <Mithrandir> daniels: yes.
[05:44] <Kamion> lamont: nope
[05:44] <Mitario> mvo, ok read the e-mail
[05:44] <lamont> Kamion: oh right, MacOS already has those. :-)
[05:45] <Kamion> lamont: Henrik said they'd thought about it but it would be a hell of a lot of work
[05:45] <Kamion> trukulo: I doubt anyone will be able to answer that without details, bug reports, whatever
[05:45] <Mithrandir> daniels: as in, SIGALRM, trying to access fd open to /dev/dri/card0 and gets:
[05:45] <Mithrandir> ioctl(7, 0xc0406429, 0x7fbffff110)      = -1 EBUSY (Device or resource busy)
[05:45] <daniels> Mithrandir: bonnng
[05:46] <Mithrandir> daniels: up-to-date hoary.
[05:46] <daniels> Mithrandir: let me see if I can reproduce
[05:46] <daniels> Mithrandir: you're not running another X server or something, are you?
[05:47] <Mithrandir> daniels: no, nothing like that.  Standard LCD display with DVI cabling, ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 PRO]  (rev 01) card.
[05:47] <Mithrandir> sweet machine, XP4000+ and 2G RAM.
[05:47] <daniels> cracktasmic
[05:47] <daniels> dude, if it was truly a sweet machine, it would be pcie and amd64 :)
[05:48] <Mithrandir> I felt I pushed hard enough at my uni budget when I got this machine.  I don't need the pcie performance
[05:48] <Mithrandir> (and I'm only keeping it until summer anyhow, since I'm finished then)
[05:48] <Mithrandir> jdub: amd64 is good.
[05:48] <daniels> amd64 is love
[05:48] <Keybuk> jdub: me also
[05:48] <trukulo> Kamion, there's no bug, i only have to re-configure cups, locales, hotplug, debconf, etc, etc... a very long list
[05:48] <jdub> they're just... so... fast...
[05:48] <trukulo> also man, alsa, serial...
[05:49] <jordi> http://people.debian.org/~jordi/nano_1.3.5-cvs.20050316-0_i386.deb, the nano package EVERYONE was waiting for.
[05:49] <trukulo> i only say it's very difficult for joe-user
[05:49] <Keybuk> jdub: but will you call it "galactica" ? :p
[05:49] <jordi> mvo: this means you. :)
[05:49] <lamont> it just keeps getting bumped down by more urgent things.  like working dvd burners
[05:49] <thom> http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8we.html
[05:49] <thom> *wants*
[05:49] <jdub> Keybuk: i might call it cockfosters :)
[05:49] <Mithrandir> lamont: dvd burners are cheap, though.
[05:49] <daniels> i need to get myself a cheap, crappy i386 motherboard
[05:49] <lamont> Mithrandir: yeah
[05:49] <Mithrandir> thom: got a pile of them at $otherwork. :)
[05:49] <daniels> i have a hojillion agp cards, but no machine to put them in
[05:49] <Mithrandir> thom: they're sweet
[05:49] <lamont> daniels: I can bring you a cheap, broken one...
[05:50] <daniels> which means that the only ati cards i have access to are mach64s, an x300 se, and an x850 xt pe
[05:50] <mvo> jordi: I'm everyone? even in CAPTIALS? cool :)
[05:50] <thom> Mithrandir: goddam. wanna send me one? no-one in the uk can get em, apparently
[05:50] <trukulo> i mean, he's asking me everything again, even more than if i install it from new
[05:50] <daniels> and the only nvidia card i have access to is a riva128 (and a few geforce pcis)
[05:50] <jordi> sda
[05:50] <jordi> ooh
[05:50] <jordi> look, mvo
[05:50] <Mithrandir> thom: they cost half a fortune, iirc.
[05:50] <jordi> you're evil umlauts
[05:50] <lamont> Mithrandir: dvd burner raided the piggy bank that the amd64 had...
[05:50] <daniels> thom: the a8n-sli deluxe is very nice, also
[05:50] <Mithrandir> lamont: poor piggy bank.
[05:50] <mvo> jordi: ahhh ... looks _much_ better now :)
[05:50] <thom> daniels: does that do dual opteron?
[05:51] <lamont> yeah.  I went with the $99 cyberhome unit, instead of the equivalent $199 Sony unit.
[05:51] <daniels> thom: two gigeth, most everything supported, two pcie x16, two pcie x1, 8 sata plugs, dual-channel ddr400, all the oog stuff.  and cheap.
[05:51] <trukulo> even he's asking me about mozilla jprefs ...
[05:51] <Keybuk> my opteron is going to have to wait until after .au and probably guadec too :-/
[05:51] <daniels> thom: no, it doesn't do dual opteron.  you bastard.  shut up.
[05:51] <Mithrandir> lamont: expensive stuff -- my dvd burner was about 60EUR
[05:51] <trukulo> s/jprefs/prefs.js
[05:51] <jordi> mvo: if you want to advertise the deb here and there and no big regressions are found, I can try to get 1.3.6 out the door and make a diff/dsc that can be sponsored to hoary
[05:51] <thom> daniels: don't waste my team, weakling :-)
[05:51] <thom> uh, time
[05:51] <lamont> Mithrandir: sounds about right, given the conversion rate... that and I bought mine retail, rather than actually shopping online
[05:51] <thom> man my typing blows today
[05:52] <jordi> mvo: that probably includes testing the udeb too
[05:52] <daniels> thom: i was about to say, your team is constantly getting wasted
[05:52] <daniels> thom: that 'rugby' thing (both forms), darts, cricket, soccer, whatever :)
[05:52] <Mithrandir> thom: actually, I think the ones we have are the K8Q or K8S or something.
[05:53] <thom> Mithrandir: yeah, i wasnt smp board with pci-e
[05:53] <kylem> daniels, wow. that is a sexy board.
[05:53] <Mithrandir> thom: the only place in .no having the 8WE has -2 in stock. :)
[05:53] <mvo> jordi: it's a release manangers descision, but I'll talk to them (hey jdub :) 
[05:53] <thom> -2? rock
[05:53] <jordi> mvo: you have an ally in Kamion. :)
[05:53] <Mithrandir> thom: SLI plus dual, that's nice.
[05:53] <daniels> kylem: the -sli is what I have (although I only run one PCIE card, but I like it better than two 6800 Ultras :))
[05:53] <daniels> Mithrandir: bah SLI
[05:53] <trukulo> wtf? upgrade is asking me for root password ???
[05:53] <jordi> it's even curious to see this crack in a nano buffer.
[05:53] <Mithrandir> shame the opteron doesn't do throttling.
[05:54] <jordi> ok. the final test.
[05:54] <kylem> daniels, have i mentioned i hate you? :-)
[05:54] <thom> it won't be as l33t as voodoo2 SLI
[05:54] <Mithrandir> daniels: it has nice stuff such as SATA2 and dual U320 SCSI too.
[05:54] <mvo> jordi: you sure? even with this additional dependency :) ?
[05:54] <Mithrandir> thom: what's the prices people are claiming on it?
[05:54] <kylem> daniels, i don't even have working graphics on my toys.
[05:54] <jordi> if nano can save a KHOMUT THAI CHARACTER...
[05:54] <jordi> it is GOLD
[05:54] <thom> Mithrandir: the WE? I can't find any one in the uk that has one :/
[05:55] <Mithrandir> thom: so they don't put up a price even?
[05:55] <thom> nup
[05:55] <jordi> oh dude it works
[05:55] <jordi> mvo: does the ubuntu base system not include ncursesw already?
[05:55] <daniels> kylem: heh
[05:55] <Mithrandir> daniels: got any ideas for my problem?
[05:55] <daniels> Mithrandir: mmm, that's pretty rad
[05:56] <daniels> Mithrandir: not really, but I'll check the code out
[05:56] <trukulo> Kamion, it seems aptitude upgrade is executing again configuration install of Ubuntu, more detailed even
[05:56] <daniels> Mithrandir: the only reason I got the -SLI wasbecause it was the only PCIE board I could buy at the time
[05:56] <jordi> mvo: can you check that in a minute?
[05:58] <mvo> jordi: it's not listed explicit in the base-seed, but if it becomes a dependency of nano it will be automatically added AFAIK
[05:58] <Mithrandir> uhm, X seems to have become a kernel thread.  Or something.
[05:58] <Mithrandir> root@bowah:/etc/X11# ps xa | grep Xorg
[05:58] <Mithrandir> 11137 ?        R     12:27 [Xorg] 
[05:58] <jordi> mvo: nod
[05:59] <daniels> Mithrandir: kernel problem!  fabio's fault!
[06:00] <Keybuk> hmm
[06:00] <Keybuk> but for some reason, recent kernels break thermal zone polling
[06:00] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: what about gtk?
[06:00] <Keybuk> no, iz not gtk bug
[06:01] <mjg59> Agh cocking christ
[06:01] <mjg59> Keybuk: Got time to build a test kernel?
[06:01] <Keybuk> sure
[06:01] <thom> Keybuk: i think you've found your culprit :-)
[06:01] <mjg59> Let me find you a patch
[06:01] <mjg59> (No promises, but it's supposed to fix some ec bugs related to thermal issues)
[06:03] <trukulo> Kamion, u there? aptitude upgrade is doing debian install process entirely for me
[06:06] <mjg59> Keybuk: Any messages like acpi_ec_space_handler: bit_width should be 8 appearing?
[06:07] <Keybuk> mjg59: nothing in dmesg or syslog
[06:07] <mjg59> Hrm.
[06:07] <mjg59> Ok, two patches then:
[06:07] <Keybuk> it reports the right temp, and right trip points
[06:07] <Keybuk> but doesn't appear to be inclined to turn any fans off
[06:08] <mjg59> http://bugzilla.kernel.org/attachment.cgi?id=4516&action=view
[06:08] <mjg59> Just try that one, then
[06:09] <Keybuk> mjg59: doesn't apply cleanly to linux-source-2.6.9-28
[06:09] <fabbione> mjg59: that patch is scary and smells of abi change
[06:10] <daniels> 2.6.9? wtf?
[06:10] <Keybuk> ah, yes
[06:10] <fabbione> Keybuk: did you run ./debian/rules monolith?
[06:10] <Keybuk> clearly I am in the wrong directory
[06:10] <daniels> sigh, still 2h to go on my CD's rsync
[06:11] <daniels> obviously my original image was well, well adrift of current standards
[06:11] <daniels> i might pass out for a couple of hours while it downloads
[06:11] <daniels> mmm, yes
[06:11] <mjg59> fabbione: Yes, that's likely to be true
[06:15] <fabbione> what is supposed to fix?
[06:15] <fabbione> -spin_lock_irqsave(&ec->lock, flags);
[06:15] <fabbione> +WARN_ON(in_interrupt());
[06:15] <fabbione> +down(&ec->sem);
[06:15] <fabbione> BRRRRRRR
[06:15] <mdz> morning
[06:15] <ogra> morning mdz
[06:15] <fabbione> morning md
[06:15] <fabbione> z
[06:15] <mvo> morning mdz
[06:16] <mdz> Kamion: what is mkvmlinuz?
[06:16] <robtaylor_> fabbione: i've done a lot more debugging now, and i get exactly the same DNS repsonses from a number of DNS servers (incluin University of cambridge, from within the universities network) talking though various types of nat
[06:16] <robtaylor_> what gives?
[06:17] <Keybuk> mjg59: hmm, that outright doesn't apply to 2.6.10 at all
[06:17] <Keybuk> 3 out of 23 hunks FAILED and stuff
[06:17] <mjg59> Keybuk: Our 2.6.10, or plain upstream?
[06:17] <Keybuk> ours
[06:17] <mjg59> They both have different ACPI code
[06:17] <fabbione> Keybuk: did you run ./debian/rules monolith ?
[06:17] <Keybuk> fabbione: no?  what does that do?
[06:17] <Keybuk> I don't have a debian/rules ?
[06:18] <fabbione> perhaps apply all our neat acpi patches?
[06:18] <fabbione> Keybuk: what source are you using?
[06:18] <Keybuk> linux-source-2.6.10
[06:18] <fabbione> from apt-get source or apt-get install?
[06:18] <mjg59> Yeah, then our patches are already applied
[06:18] <fabbione> the 2 differs ... a lot
[06:18] <Keybuk> install
[06:18] <fabbione> as mjg59 sais
[06:19] <fabbione> well you only one option
[06:19] <fabbione> fix the rejects :-)
[06:20] <Keybuk> well, one of them looks like the same patch on both sides
[06:21] <Kamion> trukulo: I'm sorry, I'm too busy to look at this right now
[06:21] <trukulo> Kamion, ok, i just inform
[06:21] <Kamion> mdz: a script that glues kernel and initrd together for some powerpc subarches
[06:21] <Kamion> mdz: but not so important as I first thought, since it now isn't needed for Pegasos support
[06:22] <Kamion> hmm. German installations remove mozilla-firefox etc. while installing language-support-de
[06:22] <Kamion> pitti: 17:22 < Kamion> hmm. German installations remove mozilla-firefox etc. while installing language-support-de
[06:23] <pitti> Kamion: this is due to ffox 1.0.1, I also noticed it
[06:23] <Kamion> I suspect this applies to a bunch of locales
[06:23] <Kamion> yeah
[06:23] <pitti> Kamion: I have to upgrade the dependencies
[06:23] <pitti> of all locale packages, yes
[06:23] <Kamion> how soon can this be fixed? not to rush you or anything, but I think it probably ought to block Array 7
[06:24] <pitti> ugh, actually I'm in quite a hurry (dance school ball this evening)
[06:24] <sabdfl> mdz: how's it looking today, sans oo.o2?
[06:24] <sabdfl> hi all
[06:24] <pitti> Kamion: but it shouldn't take too long, I try to do it now
[06:24] <pitti> Hi sabdfl 
[06:24] <Kamion> pitti: either that or tell me what to do if it's trivial, I guess
[06:25] <pitti> Conflicts: mozilla-firefox (<< 0.99+1.0RC1-3), mozilla-firefox (>= 1.0.0)
[06:25] <pitti> hrm
[06:25] <pitti> I guess I change this to
[06:25] <mdz> sabdfl: I just opened my eyes, dunno yet
[06:25] <pitti> >= 1.1
[06:26] <mdz> Kamion: I rolled a new set of CDs last night with the new xorg, but couldn't wait around for them.  how did they turn out?
[06:26] <ogra> argh
[06:26] <ogra> elmo ooo
[06:26] <Kamion> mdz: today's seem ok
[06:26] <Kamion> but I haven't really checked xorg in any detail
[06:27] <mdz> anything on the todo list for array 7?
[06:27] <Kamion> see above
[06:27] <mdz> should probably do new livefs images with the new ubuntu-desktop if I missed the daily build
[06:28] <mdz> to incorporate hwdb-client
[06:28] <thom> pitti: yeah
[06:28] <daniels> Kamion: i'll check out xorg on amd64, but that was a pretty low-damage upload
[06:28] <ogra> mdz: Rejected: hwdb-client_0.5-0ubuntu1_source.changes: upload is signed by 0x13A0E64FD1ED4E737046DFBD4AC393FBA2D06936 but is not in the Maintainer keyring.
[06:28] <ogra> :(
[06:28] <daniels> Kamion: i'll be staggered if it broke anything.  which, of course, means that it won't work for anyone.
[06:28] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/full/daily-live/current$ grep hwdb-client *.manifest
[06:28] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/full/daily-live/current$
[06:28] <Kamion> I'll do a new live build
[06:28] <pitti> Kamion: oh, it's not the -all package, this is correct
[06:28] <Kamion> running
[06:29] <mdz> ogra: I couldn't wait any longer on moving it into main; it should be no problem for your uploads to be sponsored until elmo can process your key
[06:29] <ogra> ok
[06:29] <robtaylor_> fabbione: well i've found the issue. detailed here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=140528. you should probably apply this patch :https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=107533 to bind9 
[06:29] <Kamion> argh, why does /var/log/installer/messages start with 'UTC=yes' instead of actual useful stuff
[06:29] <Mithrandir> ogra: what do you need sponsored?
[06:29] <daniels> mdz: fwiw -- xorg, dbus and dbus-mono are all good to go, just waiting on array 7 so I don't inadvertently break that
[06:30] <robtaylor_> i'll test it at home tonight
[06:30] <Micksa> if anyone cares
[06:30] <Micksa> I can't change my mouse sensitivity or acceleration
[06:30] <Micksa> neither through gnome or with "xset m"
[06:30] <fabbione> robtaylor: i really don't understand why you keep pushing me these patches... i don't maintain bind
[06:30] <pitti> Kamion: fixed
[06:30] <fabbione> and as i just told you before it is a dns server problem
[06:30] <Kamion> pitti: cool, thanks
[06:30] <pitti> Kamion: the m-f-locale-de package, that is (which has still its own source package)
[06:31] <robtaylor_> fabbione: no its not!
[06:31] <Kamion> pitti: is that the only one left?
[06:31] <robtaylor_> fabbione: as i've said to you
[06:31] <robtaylor_> fabbione: so bind patch-> who?
[06:31] <fabbione> robertj: Component: bind
[06:31] <robtaylor_> debian maint? i dunno how the ubuntu freeze works
[06:32] <fabbione> robertj: debian maint = lamont = ubuntu maint
[06:32] <pitti> Kamion: I check
[06:32] <robtaylor_> fabbione: ah, didn't notice your reply as i'm not robertj ;)
[06:33] <robtaylor_> fabbione: and i'm talking to you cos lamont pointed me in your direction for this issue
[06:36] <fabbione> robtailor_: ah k
[06:41] <dholbach> jdub: your annouce mail ROCKs :-)
[06:41] <jdub> ;-)
[06:41] <ogra> so if someone would do me the favour to upload and sign hwdb-client to main: http://www.grawert.net/hwdb/
[06:41] <jdub> it's going to be so good
[06:41] <thom> mjg59: ok, so p4-clockmod is damnably awful, but for those poor folks on p4 laptops, it's better that nothing, i think. is there a better solution, or should we just turn it on if we're on a laptop?
[06:42] <ogra> jdub, sounded like that
[06:42] <jdub> it will MELT MY FACE
[06:42] <ogra> hehe
[06:42] <tseng> are sponsorships for UDU already finalized?
[06:42] <ogra> havent heard anything yet
[06:43] <daniels> jdub: USPLASH
[06:43] <daniels> jdub: and FULL SICK X RECONFIGURATION
[06:43] <ogra> neither positive nor negative
[06:43] <daniels> jdub: (seriously, can we please call it that, a la MPS and TRLS?)
[06:43] <daniels> fsxr
[06:44] <ogra> daniels, you sound like someone from the GDR, they used to live in abbreviations there :)
[06:44] <daniels> ogra: it's all jeff's fault, always
[06:44] <Kamion> MPS?
[06:44] <Kamion> monty python support?
[06:44] <ogra> hehe
[06:44] <dholbach> hahaha
[06:44] <thom> mad phat startup
[06:44] <Kamion> oh yes
[06:44] <daniels> Kamion: mad phat startup, foo'
[06:44] <ogra> jdub, xss patch before the weekend i think
[06:45] <jdub> daniels: full sick? hrm.
[06:45] <mvo> Kamion: first step of the install looks good so far, second step is now running
[06:45] <jdub> ogra: tops, thanks
[06:45] <mjg59> thom: Grah. If they're p4-ms, they should support speedstep.
[06:45] <thom> they ain't, we have people claiming to be P4s
[06:45] <thom> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=1661 is a laptop
[06:45] <daniels> jdub: FULSIK like a VL CALAIS TURBO
[06:46] <mjg59> People with laptops that have desktop P4s in deserve to catch fire
[06:46] <mjg59> NOTABUG: buy something better next time
[06:46] <jdub> flaming plastic intel carnage!
[06:46] <kylem> mjg59, *hug*
[06:46] <thom> mjg59: well, yes
[06:47] <mjg59> But, uh.
[06:47] <mjg59> People were complaining massively about the performance hit.
[06:47] <thom> yeah
[06:47] <mjg59> So we're screwed either way.
[06:48] <mjg59> Maybe enable it for laptops, yeah.
[06:48] <thom> i think i'll do that now and see what people think
[06:48] <thom> thanks to the wizadry and bling of laptop-detect, it's easy
[06:48] <thom> ;-)
[06:48] <daniels> ogra: my HP was really cool.  left thigh burns (i got minor burn marks on one pair of shorts), right thigh freezes due to stupid fan placement
[06:48] <daniels> thom: l-d isn't bling
[06:48] <daniels> thom: it's rather understated
[06:49] <jdub> yeah
[06:49] <jdub> needs some figlet lovin'
[06:49] <ogra> daniels, yeh, iv seen such things :)
[06:49] <daniels> thom: i mean, you could pop up a window that draws a huge 'LAPTOP' thingy with cairo and then composites that so everything below it is still visible
[06:49] <daniels> preferably in gold, with diamond edges
[06:49] <jdub>  ___ _  _  __   _____  _   _      _   ___ _ 
[06:49] <jdub> |_ _| \| | \ \ / / _ \( ) | |    /_\ | _ \ |
[06:49] <jdub>  | || .` |  \ V / (_) |/  | |__ / _ \|  _/_|
[06:49] <jdub> |___|_|\_|   |_| \___/    |____/_/ \_\_| (_)
[06:49] <jdub> 
[06:49] <ogra> hehe
[06:49] <thom> daniels: that would indeed be bling
[06:50] <daniels> jdub: maybe a massive fist with a LAPTOP multi-finger gold/diamond ring
[06:50] <daniels> jdub: with CAIRO and COMPOSITE ... maybe it could also somehow integrate support for DBUS
[06:50] <daniels> jdub: that would be the most bling shit ever
[06:50] <pitti> Kamion: I corrected nb, the others are fine
[06:50] <stuNNed> LOL
[06:50] <thom> com.ubuntu.LAPTOPBLING
[06:50] <jdub> haha
[06:50] <Treenaks> mjg59: "Maded in Germany"
[06:51] <jdub> mjg59: secret squirrel
[06:51] <Treenaks> -d
[06:51] <dholbach> Treenaks: you're mean
[06:51] <ogra> Treenaks, got your harsh week ?
[06:51] <Treenaks> ogra: yeah, sorry :)
[06:51] <ogra> :)
[06:51] <thom> mjg59: i was wondering if it's speedstep, but given that we try and load smi and acpi and neither of them apparently work, it might as well be supersekret
[06:51] <Treenaks> ogra: I have that every once in a while
[06:52] <ogra> Treenaks, its ok, we live with the original sin
[06:52] <mjg59> thom: for p4, it would be speedstep_centrino
[06:52] <mjg59> (If it is actually speedstep)
[06:53] <mjg59> On the other hand, it appears on systems that almost certainly don't have speedstep
[06:53] <mjg59> Ah, ss is CPU self snoop
[06:53] <thom> ahr
[06:53] <Treenaks> mjg59: maybe it DOES support some speedstep stuff, but only at one speed?
[06:53] <thom> oh well
[06:54] <thom> Treenaks: that would be classic intel. "YES WE HAVE SPEED STEP LOVE. YOU CAN CHANGE SPEED... TO THE SAME SPEED YOU WERE AT BEFORE!"
[06:54] <Treenaks> thom: hey, my laptop has that..
[06:54] <Treenaks> thom: first-generation speed-locked speedstep!
[06:54] <Treenaks> (P3)
[06:55] <mjg59> Treenaks: Usually means that it doesn't have speedstep
[06:55] <mjg59> The smi driver finds it hard to tell
[06:56] <Treenaks> mjg59: it was labeled "With Speedstep!" on  the box, but even Windows can't switch :)
[06:56] <mjg59> Incidentally, we really do have totally rad laptop support
[06:56] <Treenaks> mjg59: I can switch to another ACPI power mode and make it slow that way though
[06:56] <mjg59> Ha. Wrong box. Or broken hardware.
[06:56] <lamont> fabbione == ipv6 god
[06:56] <mjg59> P state or T state?
[06:56] <Treenaks> T
[06:56] <mjg59> Yeah, that doesn't reduce the voltage
[06:57] <lamont> hrm.. either my monitor or my eyes have convergence isuses
[06:57] <Treenaks> lamont: or both
[06:57] <Kamion> urgh, I think the powerpc CD may have overflowed
[06:57] <ogra> so could someone sign and upload my package, so Kamion can start the CD build ?
[06:58] <Kamion> I should keep log.list2cds around somewhere slightly more obvious
[06:58] <dholbach> and ogra could finally go to bed, after how many hours?
[06:58] <ogra> 30 ?
[06:58] <dholbach> that's what i thought :-(
[06:59] <ogra> havent counted...
[06:59] <Mithrandir> ogra: URL?
[06:59] <daniels> Kamion: over 650MB?
[06:59] <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/hwdb/
[06:59] <Kamion> daniels: think so, running a debug build now
[06:59] <Mithrandir> ogra: should I now go into sadistic mode and pick on everything? ;)
[06:59] <daniels> Kamion: and, just to be sure, 20050316.2 *does* have xorg 6.8.2-4, yeah?
[06:59] <Kamion> I should also make cdimage SCREAM when that happens; like, refuse to output the powerpc CD
[06:59] <ogra> Mithrandir, argh :)
[07:00] <daniels> Kamion, figlet.  figlet, Kamion.
[07:00] <Kamion> daniels: .list files, dude :)
[07:00] <Mithrandir> ogra: I'll be gentle
[07:00] <Kamion> cjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/full/daily/20050316.2$ grep xserver-xorg *.list
[07:00] <Kamion> hoary-install-amd64.list:/pool/main/x/xorg/xserver-xorg_6.8.2-4_amd64.deb
[07:00] <Kamion> hoary-install-i386.list:/pool/main/x/xorg/xserver-xorg_6.8.2-4_i386.deb
[07:00] <ogra> Mithrandir, thanks...anoter beer....(hopefully they have that much where we meet next time)
[07:00] <Kamion> hoary-install-ia64.list:/pool/main/x/xorg/xserver-xorg_6.8.2-4_ia64.deb
[07:00] <Kamion> hoary-install-powerpc.list:/pool/main/x/xorg/xserver-xorg_6.8.2-4_powerpc.deb
[07:00] <daniels> Kamion: woah, handy
[07:00] <Kamion> CD 1 filled with 603297516 bytes ... (limit was 603979776)
[07:00] <Kamion> CD 2 will only be filled with 6725948 bytes ...
[07:00] <Kamion> damnit
[07:01] <Kamion> that limit is so wrong
[07:01] <Kamion> INFO: Reserving 30 MB on CD 1 for boot files.  SIZELIMIT=629145600.
[07:01] <Kamion>   INFO: Reserving 4% of the CD for extra metadata
[07:01] <Kamion>   INFO: SIZELIMIT now 603979776.
[07:01] <daniels> 'extra metadata'?
[07:01] <Kamion> ISO9660/HFS garbage
[07:01] <daniels> agh
[07:02] <Kamion> the output CD is 620MB
[07:02] <Mithrandir> ogra: from the README: It's "binaries", not binarys.
[07:02] <Kamion> i.e. 650618880
[07:02] <Mithrandir> ogra: and "corresponding"; double r.
[07:02] <Kamion> so it does lose quite a bit of space, but not quite that much
[07:03] <ogra> Mithrandir, ok, in the next upload :)
[07:03] <dholbach> Mithrandir: just change it, sign it and "give tha poo' man a break" :-)
[07:03] <Mithrandir> ogra: it's minor stuff, I can sign and upload with that unchanged.
[07:03] <ogra> Mithrandir, thanks :)
[07:04] <daniels> ARGH ZWIKI
[07:05] <Mithrandir> ogra: the copyright year in the hwdb-gui.sgml is 2003
[07:06] <ogra> urgs
[07:06] <ogra> Mithrandir, long planning phase :)
[07:06] <Mithrandir> ogra :)
[07:06] <Mithrandir> ogra: you have a needless configure-stamp in the rules file
[07:07] <dholbach> a round of applause for ogra, he doesnt even loose his humour after 30h awake and hacking :-)
[07:07] <Mithrandir> ogra: if you fix those remarks for the next upload, I'm happy.  Good work, considering you must be totally drawn out.
[07:07] <mxpxpod> does anyone here use gnome-cups-icon?
[07:07] <ogra> :)
[07:07] <Treenaks> ogra: 30h?? omg!
[07:07] <daniels> oh, I need to be hitting w.ul.o instead of w.u.c to edit the wiki.  even though it happily tells me that I'm now logged in.  when I'm not.
[07:08] <ogra> Mithrandir, i will do :)
[07:11] <Kamion> daniels: go plone
[07:11] <Treenaks> *cough*python*cough* ;)
[07:12] <daniels> Kamion: this one isn't actually plone's fault, it's zwiki braindamage
[07:15] <tseng> daniels: so were you planning to reupload muine/tomboy w/ no changes, or should i be watching for dbus to go up?
[07:16] <daniels> tseng: if you want to do it, that would be great.  my plan is to watch array 7 go out, kick xorg+dbus+dbus-mono uploads, then sleep.
[07:16] <daniels> Kamion: 3min left on hoary-install-amd64.iso
[07:17] <tseng> ok ill watch it daniels
[07:17] <daniels> thanks dude
[07:17] <daniels> i'll ping you on irc when i upload it anyway
[07:17] <daniels> so yeah, with .4 we should be good for beagle with hoary
[07:17] <tseng> ok cool.
[07:17] <daniels> worship the crack
[07:18] <Keybuk> ...neat... my laptop hasn't hardly touched the hard-drive compiling this kernel
[07:18] <tseng> <3 crack
[07:18] <Keybuk> yay for 750MB of page-cache
[07:19] <daniels> you can do it!
[07:20] <daniels> huzzah!  2:12:21 isn't too bad.
[07:22] <fabbione> daniels: is the last X upload borked?
[07:22] <daniels> fabbione: err?
 fabbione: i just updated again, and X is not working now
[07:22] <daniels> sigh
[07:23] <daniels> worked for me.  usual log+config thing applies
[07:23] <fabbione> daniels: yes already asking....
[07:23] <daniels> thanks mate
[07:25] <mjg59> thom: Did you have a chance to look at gdm-signal ?
[07:27] <fabbione> daniels: never mind... usual vmware crap
[07:27] <daniels> fabbione: hooray
[07:33] <Mithrandir> ogra: sorry it took a while; uploaded now.
[07:34] <Keybuk> mjg59: that patch seems to fix it
[07:36] <daniels> mdz: you've got some phat debugging info on DebuggingXAutoconfiguration now
[07:36] <Keybuk> though it also makes hald bitch about "the kernel doesn't support capabilities"
[07:38] <mjg59> Keybuk: It does? And it does?
[07:38] <mjg59> Could you possibly stick a rediffed version somewhere?
[07:38] <mjg59> (And what the christ is hald on?)
[07:39] <daniels> oh, frig
[07:40] <daniels> Kamion: sorry, my partition table is pretty screwed, and I don't have the inclination to fix it at 0540, to be honest
[07:40] <daniels> Kamion: (largely because doing so would almost certainly lead to data loss.)
[07:40] <Kamion> np, as you know I have to build another version anyway ...
[07:40] <Kamion> how screwed?
[07:41] <daniels> screwed as in fdisk reports partition 5 being swap, but sda6 is mounted as swap, and there's another plain linux partition in there (10gb) that doesn't seem to be there any more
[07:41] <daniels> the sort of thing I'm not too keen on attempting to sort out right now ;)
[07:41] <Kamion> hm, scary
[07:41] <daniels> it works for now
[07:42] <daniels> i daren't touch it
[07:42] <Keybuk> mjg59: I don't make any claims from having resolved the conflicts properly
[07:42] <daniels> Kamion: how long do you think it'll be till a7, roughly? (no pressure or anything, just trying to work out what I should do right now)
[07:43] <Keybuk> http://descent.netsplit.com/~scott/acpi_ec_rediff.patch
[07:44] <Kamion> daniels: at the moment I'm doing ARE WE NEARLY THERE YET on mozilla-firefox-locale-{de,nb} binaries
[07:44] <daniels> Kamion: heh :)
[07:44] <mjg59> Keybuk: Thanks
[07:44] <daniels> Kamion: likely to be in the next 2h or so?
[07:45] <Kamion> daniels: should be
[07:45] <Kamion> I bloody well hope so, anyway
[07:45] <daniels> rad
[07:45] <fabbione> for i in $$list; do \
[07:45] <fabbione>  newname="$(shell echo '$$i' | sed -e 's/00list-$(revision)/00list-$(nextrev)/g')"; \
[07:45] <fabbione> echo $$newname; \
[07:45] <fabbione> done
[07:45] <fabbione> spot the error.. i keep getting an empty newname
[07:45] <fabbione> i don't understand why
[07:46] <Kamion> fabbione: can't use $(shell) like that
[07:46] <Kamion> fabbione: it's expanded at the point when the makefile is parsed, not when that command is running
[07:46] <Kamion> fabbione: try $$(...) instead
[07:47] <Keybuk> mjg59: the hald thing could have been that it tries to set cap_net_admin=ep, and it wouldn't've had the wireless driver (atheros, restricted, etc.)
[07:47] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[07:47] <fabbione> Kamion: that was ti
[07:47] <fabbione> it
[07:48] <Kamion> ah, finally, building CDs now
[07:48] <mjg59> I can't see why it would have altered capabilities otherwise
[07:48] <mjg59> I'll try to build a new kernel with that tomorrow and then push it to fabbione
[07:48] <Keybuk> yeah, just rebooted with an atheros module available and that warning went away
[07:49] <mjg59> We should check whether that breaks machines that have no networking
[07:49] <sivang> Keybuk: he hasn't come back, has he?
[07:49] <Keybuk> "come back" ?
[07:50] <fabbione> mjg59: no ABI changes please
[07:51] <sivang> Keybuk: he's not here right now 
[07:51] <mjg59> fabbione: Between now and release?
[07:52] <Keybuk> fabbione: it's either that or backing out a few kernel releases until we have one that works on HP laptops
[07:52] <mjg59> fabbione: It's a regression, but, well, your call
[07:53] <lamont> mdz around>
[07:53] <lamont> ?
[07:54] <Keybuk> mjg59: do the n[cx]  6xxx have the same problem?
[07:54] <mjg59> Keybuk: Unsure.
[07:54] <mjg59> I don't /think/ so
[07:54] <daniels> fabbione: i'm not going to do it now, but if you need l-r-m done, i'm going to be around from about 0000->0700 UTC, then about 1400->1900 UTC tomorrow.
[07:56] <Keybuk> it's an odd problem; it only appears to be initial fan state that it won't change
[07:56] <Keybuk> if you can heat the laptop up over the trip point, it then takes control of them
[07:56] <Keybuk> and if you manually turn off the fans, it'll turn some back on
[07:56] <Keybuk> and will then happily turn them on and off as required
[07:56] <mjg59> Yeah. It's just down to it missing some interrupts from the embedded controller.
[07:57] <Keybuk> unfortunately this means you either get a laptop trying to take off, or doubling as a frying pan until you do something :-/
[08:00] <lamont> robtaylor_: around still?
[08:00] <dholbach> could someone chuck out that kdepim-build? i always stop dead and think MY upload went wrong ;-)
[08:00] <lamont> does bind9.2.5 from debian fix the problem for you?
[08:00] <Riddell> dholbach: we're in the process of making one that doesn't depend on things still to be moved to main
[08:01] <dholbach> Riddell: ah ok... sorry :-)
[08:01] <stockholm> do you use openldap 2.2 or 2.1?
[08:02] <fabbione> mjg59: we just did bump the ABI yesterday.. and it is 8 hours of people in here working together to get all the bits and pieces
[08:02] <fabbione> mjg59: if it is a must for release.. well we will do it
[08:02] <Kamion> as long as you don't do it right now, I'm not bothered :)
[08:03] <lamont> Kamion: you want it post-array 7, eh>?
[08:03] <fabbione> daniels: don't worry... know i have seen how to do it :-)
[08:03] <fabbione> Kamion: when is A7 planned?
[08:03] <fabbione> Kamion: no i have NO intention to do it NOW
[08:03] <fabbione> and a wife...
[08:04] <Keybuk> it was yesterdays patch that broke it
[08:04] <daniels> hm, my shoulder's beginning to ache; i'm going to crash now, back at 0000 utc
[08:04] <daniels> Kamion: g'luck with a7
[08:04] <fabbione> Keybuk: what patch?
[08:04] <Keybuk> 2.6.10-27 seems fine
[08:04] <Keybuk> 2.6.10-28 is broken
[08:06] <fabbione> Keybuk: can you spot what patch did break?
[08:06] <fabbione> i know exactly which patches did break the ABI
[08:06] <fabbione> so if we do not revert one of these 3
[08:07] <fabbione> we can get the change in -28 reverted
[08:07] <fabbione> and the laptop fixed
[08:07] <fabbione> without adding new code or new patches
[08:07] <Keybuk> fabbione: do you have the patches anywhere so I can look?
[08:07] <fabbione> Keybuk: apt-get source linux-source-2.6.10 or baz ...
[08:07] <fabbione> what do you prefer?
[08:08] <fabbione> i also wrote a nice.. 25K changelog for it...
[08:08] <Keybuk> did the apt one
[08:08] <fabbione> it should be pretty easy to track the change
[08:08] <Keybuk> yeah was just reading the changelog and couldn't spot anything obvious
[08:08] <fabbione> IPMI sounds an option
[08:09] <Keybuk> *shrug* bear in mind I know little to nothing about this kind of stuff
[08:09] <fabbione> so do i
[08:09] <fabbione> :P
[08:09] <fabbione> mjg59 is the best one to help over here
[08:13] <Keybuk> fabbione: silly question, but where are the patches?
[08:13] <zul> debian/patches
[08:14] <Keybuk> ah, I was in the wrong directory again
[08:15] <fabbione> Keybuk: you need to edit debian/patches/00list-28
[08:15] <fabbione> to enable/disable them
[08:15] <fabbione> no need to remove them from the dir
[08:15] <fabbione> dirty hack: go in debian/config/$arch/
[08:16] <fabbione> and remove the config files that you do not need
[08:16] <Kamion> fabbione: building ATM
[08:16] <fabbione> build
[08:16] <fabbione> Kamion: ehm.. building what?
[08:16] <Kamion> fabbione: candidate CD images, will then test, and then release if they're ok
[08:16] <fabbione> Keybuk: you will find the .deb in debian/build
[08:16] <Keybuk> how do I build just the linux-image deb?
[08:16] <fabbione> Kamion: ah ok.. sorry..
[08:17] <fabbione> Keybuk: exactly as i wrote above
[08:17] <fabbione> just run the build
[08:17] <Keybuk> debian/rules build ?
[08:17] <fabbione> or build-debs
[08:17] <fabbione> or whatever
[08:17] <fabbione> yes
[08:17] <fabbione> actually build-debs
[08:17] <Keybuk> does that make restricted-modules too?
[08:17] <fabbione> no
[08:17] <fabbione> what patches did you back out?
[08:18] <Keybuk> binary-debs ?
[08:18] <fabbione> (it will check the ABI compatibility anyway for you)
[08:18] <fabbione> Keybuk: yes
[08:18] <fabbione> so if there is no ABI change there is no need for a build of l-r-m
[08:20] <Keybuk> just the ipmi one for now
[08:20] <Keybuk> hmm
[08:20] <Keybuk> apparently debian/control is empty
[08:21] <fabbione> ok. the 3 patches that breaks the ABI are the inotify, the       . Add patch stolen-from-head_087-ext3_graceful_corruption_fixes.dpatch.
[08:21] <fabbione> and the JFFS2 that needs the ext3 one
[08:21] <fabbione> Keybuk: in what dir?
[08:21] <Keybuk> linux-source-2.6.10-2.6.10
[08:21] <fabbione> control is updated at build time
[08:21] <fabbione> via control.stub
[08:22] <fabbione> it can't be empty
[08:22] <Keybuk> ah, I need "kernel-wedge"
[08:22] <fabbione> just cp debian/control.stub debian/control
[08:22] <fabbione> to recover
[08:23] <fabbione> i am off for dinner
[08:23] <fabbione> bbl
[08:23] <fabbione> Keybuk: if you have problems /j #u-kernel
[08:37] <tritium> odd: /usr/share/powernowd/cpufreq-detect.sh: line 40: We're: command not found
[08:38] <tritium> (on /etc/init.d/powernowd/restart)
[08:38] <tritium> uh, you know what I mean ;)
[08:53] <mdz> lamont: here
[09:14] <dholbach> thanks elmo
[09:17] <jon1012> oops bug
[09:28] <fabbione> re
[09:28] <zul> hey dear
[09:29] <mdz> Kamion: candidates ready to rsync?
[09:30] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[09:30] <Kamion> mdz: well, install, anyway
[09:30] <Kamion> I'm building live cloops now
[09:30] <mdz> Kamion: live waiting on livefs images?
[09:30] <Kamion> yes
[09:31] <mdz> ok, I'm up-to-date with install, let me know when live is ready and I'll do a test cycle
[09:31] <tseng> daniels: im going to work soonish. can you please ping dholbach to upload tomboy and muine? he's already aware
[09:31] <mdz> amu: are you here?
[09:31] <tseng> daniels: he bumped a hard depend on your version of dbus i believe (0.23.4)
[09:31] <amu> yes
[09:31] <amu> mdz: yep
[09:32] <mdz> amu: once the array 7 candidates are ready, can you run through your test plan?
[09:32] <mdz> for the live CD?
[09:33] <amu> mdz: if i have any blank Cd's left :) sure 
[09:33] <mdz> amu: you don't use CD-RWs?
[09:35] <amu> mdz: yes i use them, my last one has some read error's ... 
[09:38] <amu> mdz: all right, found 1 in m archive-box 
[09:43] <abelli> ciao a tutti
[09:43] <Keybuk> fabbione: hey?
[09:44] <mvo> Kamion: 0316.2 seems to have set a wrong keymap for me. I'm checking 0316.3 next
[09:47] <kagou> exit
[09:53] <mdz> Mithrandir: ping, re: utf8-migration-tool
[09:53] <mdz> mvo: ping, re: warty->hoary upgrades and ubuntu-desktop
[09:55] <mvo> mdz: pong
[09:55] <abelli> sabdfl: ping
[09:55] <Riddell> jdub: do you have the HTML for the new website template?
[09:55] <mdz> abelli: he's gone for the day
[09:56] <abelli> mdz: thank you.
[09:56] <mdz> mvo: did you find a workaround for the ubuntu-desktop upgrade issue?  (I don't have the bug# atm)
[09:56] <jdub> Riddell: i'm not doing the new website stuff
[09:57] <jdub> Riddell: henrik is, but it's not public yet
[09:57] <mvo> mdz: not sure, I need to test that again
[09:58] <mdz> mvo: ok, please make upgrade issues your next priority, upgrades need to be solid for RC
[09:58] <mdz> earlier is better
[09:58] <mvo> mdz: nod
[09:59] <Riddell> jdub: ok.  was thinking about using it for the kubuntu website
[09:59] <smurfix> Would it make sense to point the live CD's Firefox homepage to something other than "blank:"?
[10:00] <smurfix> (andif so, what ...)
[10:00] <jdub> Riddell: mail henrik@canonical.com, let him know :)
[10:00] <dholbach> smurfix: we could do with some   /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-doc/Get-Involved-RSN.html    :-)
[10:00] <dholbach> or    /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-doc/Can-You-Feel-The-Love.html   :-)
[10:00] <sivang> smurfix: we'd probably want it to open the fresh about ubuntu page no?
[10:01] <mvo> mdz: how should we proceed with nessus? I would like to sync nessus-core,libs and nessus-plugins. it is in testing already and looks stable. I tested if it would work to only update nessus-plugins and that works for me. the change between 2.2.0 (current hoary) and 2.2.3 looks harmless too. 
[10:04] <mdz> thom: what's your take on this bunch of new firefox bug reports?  genuine, or need-to-restart-firefox sort of things?
[10:04] <mdz> mvo: that's fine with me, it has no reverse-depends, right?
[10:08] <smurfix> Ooookay.... clicking on Help, then Desktop, says "User Guide for Gnome 2.6". Behind that one is the user guide for 2.8.  :-/  Are there no 2.10 docs available yet, or did somebody forget?
[10:09] <rubenv> has anyone spoken to infinity recently?
[10:13] <mvo> mdz: fine with sync the whole nessus or only the plugins?
[10:13] <mdz> mvo: both, together
[10:13] <mdz> smurfix: I believe the title is broken, the current docs are 2.8, and there are some 2.10 docs upstream
[10:13] <mdz> smurfix: ping seb128
[10:14] <dholbach> ok... daniels being "asleep now.  seriously." probably means, i won't have to stay alert for the upload of mono-rebuilds :-)
[10:15] <mvo> mdz: I like syncing all of it better too. it's a bit messy with all dependencies: nessus, nessusd, nessus-plugins, libnessus and libnasl2
[10:15] <smurfix> mdz: That was the idea, thanks
[10:16] <mdz> mvo: agreed
[10:16] <mvo> mdz: thanks
[10:21] <zul> Keybuk: spending time with his wife 
[10:21] <Keybuk> tsk :p
[10:21] <Keybuk> the depravity
[10:21] <zul> yeah i dont want to know the details
[10:21] <mvo> mdz: it's probably better to wait until tomorrow with the sync? because of array-7 ...
[10:22] <mdz> mvo: nessus doesn't go on the CD, so it's fine
[10:23] <mvo> elmo: can you please sync nessus-core, nessus-plugins, nessus-libraries and libnasl from debian? nessus-plugins in the current version is not distributable according to upstream
[10:26] <zul> later folks
[10:33] <Kamion> ok, interesting issue with testing install CDs that hadn't occurred to me
[10:34] <Kamion> when fetching stuff like language-support-* dependencies from the network, the country you select influences which CC.archive.ubuntu.com mirror is used
[10:34] <Kamion> so, depending on how in-sync the mirror is, the country you select can in fact influence whether the install works or not
[10:36] <Keybuk> why whether it works or not?
[10:38] <Kamion> see the mozilla-firefox-locale-de conflicts that pitti fixed earlier
[10:39] <Kamion> mozilla-firefox-locale-de is out of date on de.archive.ubuntu.com, so German installs still remove mozilla-firefox at the language-support-* installation stage
[10:41] <lamont> daniels: could you pretty please break out the fonts as one of the 'right after breezy opens' things?  'kthxbye
[10:41] <Kamion> apt-get has a --no-remove option which could be used to avoid that problem, but aptitude doesn't document such an option
[10:42] <Kamion> mdz: live CDs ready to grab
[10:42] <mdz> Kamion: grabbing
[10:49] <robtaylor> lamont: i am now
[10:49] <lamont> robtaylor: sent you email instead. :-)
[10:50] <robtaylor> i'll go read :)
[10:50] <lamont> 14:49:23.331255 IP 2....32795 > 82.211.81.155.873: P 1:13(12) ack 1 win 1460 <nop,nop,timestamp 83927103 1584306530>
[10:51] <lamont> 14:49:23.483256 IP 82.211.81.155.873 > 2....32795: F 1:1(0) ack 1 win 91 <nop,nop,timestamp 1584306683 83927103>
[10:51] <lamont> syn - synack - ack - data - fin :-(
[10:57] <Kamion> hmmmm. ouch. COMPLICATED issue
[10:57] <Kamion> so, debootstrap installs udev
[10:57] <lamont> which launches a daemon
[10:57] <lamont> which breaks pivot root?
[10:57] <Kamion> but udevd doesn't actually end up running inside the chroot
[10:58] <lamont> hides even
[10:58] <Kamion> because we divert stuff
[10:58] <Kamion> however
[10:58] <lamont> didn't think we'd sync'ed it yet though...
[10:58] <Kamion> well, dunno, either way it ain't running, don't care why
[10:58] <lamont> right
[10:58] <lamont> and now you have an empty /dev
[10:59] <Kamion> not quite; it's populated
[10:59] <Kamion> just enough for most purposes
[10:59] <lamont> ok'
[10:59] <Kamion> however, it doesn't catch nodes that were created by modules loaded after debootstrap (or something along those lines)
[10:59] <Kamion> so when tzsetup probes rtc, /dev/rtc gets created, but /target/dev/rtc doesn't
[10:59] <lamont> oh. ouch.
[11:00] <robtaylor> lamont: hmmm, 9.2.5 doesnt seem to make a difference
[11:00] <Kamion> now, even if udevd *did* run inside the chroot, we'd have to make the outer udevd pass events through to the inner udevd somehow
[11:00] <robtaylor> i'll try building a 2.94 with that patch
[11:00] <lamont> robtaylor: ok
[11:00] <Kamion> ideally we'd just bind-mount /dev -> /target/dev, but the two are running with different rulesets due to d-i's historical devfsness
[11:00] <lamont> yeah - if it wins, I'll push it isc-wards, and upload
[11:00] <robtaylor> lamont: cool :)
[11:02] <Simira> jdub: ping
[11:02] <lamont> Kamion: sounds like you want to have a chat with Md....  fwiw, if it makes life easier for you, he can revert the change he made for me - I had other problems that resulted in me (livecd) solving it a different way, that'll cope with udevd launching in the chroot
[11:02] <Kamion> lamont: like I say, I don't know why udevd isn't started inside my chroot, but it isn't; never has been, AFAIK
[11:02] <lamont> (specificially, I kill every living thing in the chroot, and then I can unmount things...)
[11:03] <lamont> hrm... was launching in the livecd rootfs build
[11:04] <mdz> Kamion: is this going to delay array 7?
[11:04] <lamont> Kamion: but the choices are either make it run, or umount /dev and /.dev after debootstrap, and run with a static /dev
[11:05] <seb128> ogra: here ?
[11:05] <lamont> but you know that
[11:05] <mdz> I think udevd won't be started because it's already running
[11:06] <mdz> Kamion: bind-mounting should be fine; isn't the devfsness backward-compatible?
[11:10] <Kamion> mdz: well, we do use compat-full.rules; just not sure I'm comfortable with bind-mounting that at this point in hoary's lifetime
[11:10] <Kamion> mdz: no, not an array-7 thing, it's an oldish issue I noticed while testing amd64
[11:13] <mdz> Kamion: new live CD gives me a shitty video mode, where it used to ask and I could specify a reasonable one
[11:13] <mdz> (my DDC-challenged KVM)
[11:17] <dholbach> bye lamont
[11:18] <Kamion> mdz: maybe xorg got better at guessing, but guessed wrong?
[11:19] <mdz> Kamion: daniels insisted that he wasn't tweaking the autoconfig stuff for this upload
[11:25] <robtaylor> lamont: ah, oh well, it appears my issue isn't that one :(
[11:26] <robtaylor> *sigh*
[11:26] <robtaylor> lamont: or at least that patch doens't fix it
[11:28] <dholbach> good night everyone
[11:29] <mvo> night dholbach 
[11:34] <mdz> Kamion: daniels is en route
[11:37] <daniels> da da da da da
[11:37] <daniels> ok, so in casper, we call dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg, right?
[11:38] <Kamion> uh-huh
[11:38] <Kamion> with evil debconf passthrough foo, but basically yeah
[11:38] <daniels> if [ "$1" = "reconfigure" ]  || [ -n "$DEBCONF_RECONFIGURE" ] ; then
[11:38] <daniels> so that will be satisfied?
[11:38] <mdz> daniels: correct
[11:38] <daniels> (arguments to .config)
[11:40] <mdz> daniels: I can't find xorg 6.8.2-3; can you post a debdiff from -3 to -4?
[11:40] <daniels> oh, I see
[11:40] <daniels> it's OK, I see the problem, and if we've already done a7, I can punt -5
[11:41] <Kamion> haven't quite; mdz, can I release despite this problem?
[11:41] <mdz> daniels: this bug stopped my a7 test cycle
[11:41] <Kamion> d'oh
[11:41] <mdz> it's pretty crap to have a regression like this
[11:41] <mdz> which is why I insisted that we not change this logic the day before array 7
[11:42] <Kamion> 'k, I guess it's a late night for me then
[11:42] <mdz> or we just delay until tomorrow
[11:42] <Kamion> I'd rather get it out of the way
[11:42] <Kamion> much rather
[11:42] <Kamion> while I'm in Array mode, I get precious little else done
[11:43] <daniels> mdz: this was a -2 -> -3 change, not a -3 -> -4 change
[11:43] <Kamion> daniels: -3 was never uploaded, as far as I can see
[11:43] <mdz> daniels: this didn't happen on preview
[11:43] <daniels> Kamion: err ... me too
[11:43] <mdz> ah, that explains why it wasn't in the morgue
[11:43] <Kamion> yesterday's CD images had -2
[11:43] <mdz> I didn't realize we went from -2 to -4
[11:44] <Mithrandir> mdz: re u8mg, I'm working on a version which DTRT when upgrading from the C locale.  It needs a bit (1-2 hours) more of polish which I'm doing now.
[11:44] <Kamion> so looks like an unfortunate upload accident
[11:44] <daniels> mdz: ... me either, because yeah.  i was fairly conscious about *not* changing this sort of thing in -4.
[11:45] <Kamion> OK, can we have minimal-change to fix that in -5 then, and roll A7 with that?
[11:46] <daniels> Kamion: yeah, and then -5 can become -6
[11:46] <mdz> ?
[11:46] <daniels> mdz: i have a -5 more or less ready to go; that will become -6
[11:46] <daniels> Kamion: sorry to fuck your evening
[11:46] <mdz> ah, ok
[11:47] <Kamion> daniels: *shrug* shit happens
[11:51] <daniels> mdz: if you change the script from 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg' to 'RECONFIGURE=true dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg', it should work
[11:51] <mdz> daniels: oh?
[11:52] <mdz> that would allow Kamion more sleep
[11:52] <mdz> daniels: can you test that hypothesis?
[11:52] <Kamion> so just hack casper then?
[11:52] <Kamion> casper-reconfigure, I suppose
[11:52] <Kamion> let me see if I can test it
[11:52] <mdz> that does't look like it would work
[11:52] <daniels> mdz: yeah.  it's not an installed-system problem, it's a livecd problem
[11:52] <mdz> if [ "$1" = "reconfigure" ]  || [ -n "$DEBCONF_RECONFIGURE" ] ; then
[11:52] <mdz>   # if we are reconfiguring, or already have installed the package at least
[11:52] <mdz>   # once before, we should not let auto_answer stomp on existing answers to
[11:52] <mdz>   # debconf questions
[11:52] <mdz>   RECONFIGURE=true
[11:52] <mdz> else
[11:52] <daniels> it's a *tremendous* hack
[11:52] <mdz>   RECONFIGURE=
[11:52] <mdz> fi
[11:53] <daniels> mdz: right, but the problem lies in postinst
[11:53] <daniels> mdz: when we call xresprobeint() in postinst, $RECONFIGURE is not set
[11:53] <mdz> interesting
[11:53] <Kamion> hasn't .config been sourced?
[11:53] <mdz> RECONFIGURE doesn't get set in postinst; where's it supposed to come from?
[11:53] <daniels> mdz: and it says if [ -z "$RECONFIGURE" ] ; then PRIORITY="medium; fi, which drops the priority on upgrades.  as it happens, this triggers, er, all the time.
[11:54] <daniels> mdz: *cough*
[11:54] <Kamion> surely postinst sources the debconf confmodule which sources .config which has DEBCONF_RECONFIGURE set and so sets RECONFIGURE=true
[11:54] <mdz> I'm pretty certain .config isn't sourced
[11:54] <mdz> it's run as a subprocess, no?
[11:54] <Kamion> oh, you're probably right
[11:54] <mdz> it might not even be written in sh
[11:55] <Kamion> yeah, ok, you're right
[11:55] <mdz> I'll try testing RECONFIGURE
[11:57] <daniels> yeah, I just did that then
[11:57] <daniels> + echo 'about to source confmodule in postinst'
[11:57] <daniels> about to source confmodule in postinst
[11:57] <daniels> + . /usr/share/debconf/confmodule
[11:57] <daniels> [...] 
[11:57] <daniels> + echo 'finished sourcing confmodule in postinst; value of RECONFIGURE is '
[11:57] <daniels> finished sourcing confmodule in postinst; value of RECONFIGURE is
[12:00] <daniels> so yeah, if you hack casper to ensure that RECONFIGURE=true when postinst gets called, that could mitigate this problem, but my god is it ever horrific