[12:00] <mdz> it asks the question OK as expected when RECONFIGURE=true
[12:01] <mdz> Kamion: if you can verify that it doesn't cause any other weirdness for you, that'd be appreciated
[12:01] <mdz> I'll prepare a casper upload
[12:02] <daniels> if that fixes it, I'll incorporate that into -5, head back to bed for an hour, and will incorporate that into -5
[12:03] <daniels> and upload -5 more or less as originally planed
[12:03] <daniels> or planne
[12:03] <daniels> or planned.
[12:03] <mdz> daniels: please post debdiffs from -2->-3 and -3->-4
[12:04] <daniels> mdz: for the source?
[12:04] <Kamion> mdz: CD nearly written, will do
[12:04] <mdz> daniels: yeah, debdiff foo.dsc bar.dsc
[12:04] <mdz> Kamion: I just hand-edited it in the ramdisk
[12:04] <Kamion> that was my plan also
[12:04] <mdz> there's enough time between casper unpack and 20xconfig to get in there and do the job :-)
[12:04] <Kamion> I meant the base live CD :)
[12:05] <mdz> gotcha
[12:05] <Kamion> oh, don't worry, I do this sort of shit all the time for d-i ...
[12:07] <mdz> casper upload standing by
[12:09] <daniels> mdz: p.u.c/~daniels/xorg/; just noticed another micro-regression
[12:09] <mdz> I'm getting a revert-to-6.8.2-2 kind of feeling
[12:09] <Kamion> what regression?
[12:10] <daniels> Kamion: the mkfontdir manpage fell out
[12:10] <Kamion> oh, can so live without that
[12:10] <daniels> yes
[12:10] <Kamion> screw that :)
[12:10] <daniels> i'd rather stick with -4 plus the nasty hack
[12:10] <mdz> there are 2 other places where RECONFIGURE has an effect, more untested code
[12:11] <Kamion> mdz: reverting to -2 breaks Greek installs again, plus something like five or six other languages; I'd really rather not
[12:12] <daniels> mdz: the onnly other spot is making it back the old xorg.conf up and write a new one when it's non-zero, which is desired behaviour anyway
[12:12] <daniels> between that and the i810 changes, which make life far more pleasant for lots and lots of people, I'd really rather not revert to -2
[12:13] <mdz> Kamion: what fixed Greek installs?
[12:13] <daniels> mdz: moving mkfontscale from xbase-clients to xutils
[12:13] <mdz> oh, that
[12:13] <Kamion> reverting that is highly undesirable for Replaces reasons anyway
[12:13] <daniels> mdz: mkfontdir uses mkfontscale exclusively; the former is in xutils, the latter in in xbase-clients, and xutils can't depend on xbase-clients because that defeats the entire purpose of xutils
[12:14] <Kamion> Replaces ping-pong is no fun :)
[12:14] <mdz> daniels: I know, I filed the bug ;-P
[12:14] <daniels> it's been broken ever since xbase-clients and xutils were split
[12:14] <zul> hey
[12:14] <mdz> zul: hi
[12:14] <zul> hey mdz 
[12:14] <mdz> zul: I wanted to ask your opinion about CONFIG_MEGARAID_NEWGEN
[12:14] <mdz> I just had a friend test on a Dell PE2850, and the CONFIG_MEGARAID_LEGACY doesn't work, while the NEWGEN one does
[12:15] <Kamion> daniels: have Debian fixed that one? I'd be amazed if they hadn't had to - unifont depends on xutils in Debian just the same as it does in Ubuntu
[12:15] <mdz> unfortunately they seem to be mutually exclusive
[12:15] <daniels> Kamion: nope
[12:15] <daniels> Kamion: i'll report a bug in debbugs
[12:15] <zul> i think CONFIG_MEGARAID_LEGACY is backwards compatible but ill check on that
[12:15] <daniels> Kamion: but afaict, it's still ther ein unstable
[12:15] <Kamion> daniels: how do Greek installs in Debian work, then?
[12:15] <Kamion> daniels: they *do* work I'm pretty sure, they've been autotested
[12:16] <daniels> Kamion: well, it's still in xbase-clients in unstable
[12:16] <mdz> if MEGARAID_NEWGEN=n
[12:16] <mdz> config MEGARAID_LEGACY
[12:16] <daniels> Kamion: i dunno how it works, but apparently it does
[12:16] <Kamion> and Arabic, Bulgarian, Chinese, Farsi, Hebrew, Japanese, Korean
[12:16] <mdz> Kamion: clear to upload new casper?
[12:17] <daniels> Kamion: *shrug*, maybe it gets installed by some lucky accident along the way
[12:17] <Kamion> mdz: sec
[12:17] <mdz> I don't guess there's any hurry until :33
[12:17] <zul> mdz: megaraid_newgen doesnt recognize the older controllers
[12:17] <Kamion> I've done the control, not the real test yet
[12:17] <mdz> zul: ouch
[12:17] <mdz> I wonder why they're mutually exclusive, then
[12:17] <mdz> the only reason I could think of was that they would be loaded for the same PCI IDs
[12:18] <zul> heh...ill go check
[12:19] <mdz> thanks
[12:20] <Kamion> mdz: seems to work fine
[12:21] <Kamion> mdz: (although it worked here before that patch, too)
[12:21] <mdz> uploaded casper 0.54
[12:22] <daniels> ok, i'm going back to bed until 0030, but still pingable on my mobile
[12:22] <mdz> Kamion: bug #299811 -> didn't you correct me recently that bare conditionals didn't interfere with set -e?
[12:23] <mdz> daniels: ok, thanks
[12:25] <Keybuk> test -f /not-exist
[12:25] <Keybuk> will fail
[12:26] <Keybuk> so will [ -f /not-exist ]  && ...
[12:26] <zul> mdz: as far as i can tel megaraid_newgen works with megaraid_mm which is a management module the provides ioctly and sysfs support raid controllers
[12:26] <zul> the legacy ones uses proc support i think
[12:26] <Keybuk> (the [ will exit 1, so the && bit doesn't run ... the result of the pipe is 1, so set -e causes the script to fail)
[12:27] <mdz> zul: LEGACY gets us megaraid.ko, NEWGEN gets us megaraid_mbox.ko (driver which seems to support more cadrs) and megaraid_mm.ko (management module)
[12:27] <Keybuk> [ ! -e file ]  || mv $file /var/log/setuid
[12:27] <Keybuk> would work (the || will eat the 1)
[12:28] <zul> mdz: i could be wrong ;)
[12:28] <Kamion> mdz: you were talking about ||
[12:28] <Kamion> IIRC
[12:28] <mdz> Kamion: ah, ok
[12:29] <Kamion> bash(1) says that 'false && true' or whatever does not trigger 'set -e'
[12:29] <Kamion> this appears to be true in bash and dash, but I have a recollection that it may not be true in all shells
[12:29] <Kamion> AFAIK false || ... is safe everywhere
[12:30] <Keybuk> Blinn says "false && true" will break set -e
[12:31] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: naturally, false && $whatever is false so it breaks set -e
[12:32] <Kamion> Keybuk: I can't find any shell in which that actually happens though
[12:32] <Keybuk> Kamion: zsh
[12:32] <Kamion> I tried zsh
[12:32] <Keybuk> descent scott% false && true
[12:32] <Keybuk> zsh: exit 1
[12:32] <Kamion> yes, but it does not trip set -e
[12:32] <Keybuk> scott@descent:~$ false && true
[12:32] <Keybuk> scott@descent:~$ echo $?
[12:32] <Keybuk> 1
[12:32] <Kamion> exit 1 from a pipeline doesn't trip set -e by itself
[12:33] <Keybuk> yeah, most shells tend to make that one work
[12:33] <Kamion> an && or || guard appears to be sufficient to avoid that in any shell I've tried
[12:33] <Keybuk> it's not portable though
[12:33] <Kamion> no, I can believe that
[12:33] <Kamion> just wondering where the submitter of #299811 managed to find a shell where it broke
[12:33] <zul> mdz: according to the changelog fabio disabled to avoid regressions
[12:33] <mdz> zul: :-(
[12:34] <Kamion> $ zsh -c 'set -e; false && true; echo hello'
[12:34] <Kamion> hello
[12:34] <Keybuk> busybox ?
[12:34] <zul> of course that was in 2.6.9 i dont know if it has gotten any better 
[12:34] <mdz> zul: I read that as "try to avoid regressions by using the old driver rather than the new"
[12:35] <mdz> overall, though, this is a regression from 2.4 (which had megaraid and megaraid2, at least one of which would work on these boxes)
[12:35] <Keybuk> nope, busybox on my wrt seems ok
[12:35] <Keybuk> *shrug*
[12:35] <Keybuk> he probably tried very hard :p
[12:35] <zul> mdz: ah i see
[12:35] <mdz> zul: looks like probably NEWGEN was introduced in 2.6.9
[12:36] <zul> mdz: https://www.redhat.com/archives/taroon-list/2004-November/msg00145.html
[12:36] <mdz> zul: what a mess
[12:36] <zul> mdz: yep 
[12:37] <mdz> a bug report about this should arrive soon, but it sounds like we can't do much for Hoary
[12:37] <zul> should look at 2.6.11 if its any better
[12:39] <amu> mdz: you still need me atm? Or is it 6h laters also possible? 
[12:41] <Kamion> is all the kubuntu stuff in the archive now, including binaries?
[12:42] <zul> mdz: megaraid supports only a limited number of controllers megaraid_mbox supports a whole whack of controllers (including dell perc, lsi, intel raid controllers, fsc and acer raid controllers)
[12:42] <amu> Kamion: nope, need another upload of kdebase
[12:43] <infinity> mdz : DO you have a clever way to mass-reassign all bugs relating to a source package to a specific bugzilla user?... Searching by components is painful. ;)
[12:44] <Riddell> Kamion: why do you ask?
[12:44] <Kamion> Riddell: was wondering if you guys were ready for preview-release CD builds to happen
[12:45] <amu> Riddell: i guess a possible build will fail atm
[12:45] <Riddell> Kamion: not yet, is it different from the nightly builds?
[12:45] <Kamion> Riddell: releases are always blessed nightly builds (even if those "nightly" builds happen to be triggered manually)
[12:46] <Kamion> Riddell: but we often trigger stuff by hand coming up to a release, to speed things up
[12:47] <Kamion> Riddell: lamont, mdz, and I can trigger installer initrd / live filesystem rebuilds; mdz, daniels, and I can trigger CD image builds
[12:49] <robertj> Kamion: if there is a really, really sucky bug in Gnome upstream, what are the chances of getting it fixed by an Ubuntu staffer and applied before hoary ;)
[12:50] <Kamion> robertj: we're still making GNOME changes; you'd have to talk to seb128 or jdub though, I know very little about the specifics
[12:50] <Kamion> "really, really sucky" is often relative :-)
[12:50] <robertj> Kamion: the connect to server dialog is b0rk out of the box for sftp
[12:51] <seb128> works here
[12:51] <robertj> seb128: Its broken on the LiveCD and I had a rawhide user come up with the same result
[12:51] <Kamion> I found that if I didn't have an appropriate key in an ssh-agent, the initial connect failed
[12:52] <seb128> you mean the dialog displayed when you click to validate ?
[12:52] <robertj> Kamion: we decided that was probably it
[12:52] <Kamion> but it then works thereafter
[12:52] <robertj> seb: when you connect it whines about not having an appropriate handler
[12:52] <Kamion> I'm not quite in a position to come up with specifics right now
[12:52] <robertj> I think the real problem is it's an unknown host
[12:52] <daniels> mdz: (save yourself the expense of a call; i'm up now)
[12:52] <seb128> robertj: and it works after that
[12:53] <robertj> yes, after that it will ask you for your password and work happily
[12:53] <seb128> the dialog issue is already in bugzilla
[12:53] <seb128> that's quite of ugly but not a big issue
[12:53] <robertj> any chance of it getting fixed?
[12:54] <robertj> I think this one is over my head
[12:54] <seb128> if you send a patch sure
[12:54] <seb128> if you don't send a patch and don't get fixed in a new upstream tarball not sure
[12:55] <seb128> s/and/or/
[12:55] <Kamion> Keybuk: do you know of a portable way to make shell aliases be expanded?
[12:55] <seb128> depending of the other bugs to fix before
[12:55] <Keybuk> Kamion: nope, because shell aliases aren't portable shell
[12:56] <robertj> seb128: is this something that bounty money could be used for to make the world go round?
[12:56] <seb128> no
[12:56] <zul> brb
[12:56] <Kamion> I thought all Kornish shells implemented them interactively at least
[12:56] <seb128> that's something that somebody bothered by the issue can fix quite quickly
[12:57] <seb128> ie: every bug fix is not bounty material
[01:00] <Keybuk> Kamion: no idea, my shell-fu ends where portable scripting ends -- unless it's zsh weirdness :p
[01:01] <Kamion> Keybuk: I think this is hard because I'm trying to implement a very weak kind of exception raising in shell ;)
[01:01] <Kamion> I want something that prints an error and returns out of the current function, basically
[01:01] <Keybuk> set aliases -- zsh
[01:01] <Keybuk> set expand_aliases -- bash
[01:01] <Keybuk> etc.
[01:02] <Kamion> yeah, I bet busybox doesn't have that
[01:02] <Keybuk> use variables
[01:02] <Keybuk> portable shell expands spaces in variables
[01:05] <Kamion> Keybuk: can't expand a variable to 'foo; return' though
[01:05] <Kamion> can I?
[01:06] <Kamion> no, I can't
[01:07] <Kamion> it's really to avoid having to do || { warn foo; return; } or whatever the syntax is all over the place
[01:08] <Keybuk> you can with some trickery
[01:08] <Keybuk> msg="foo" $throw
[01:08] <Keybuk> or something
[01:08] <Keybuk> msg="foo" eval $throw
[01:08] <Keybuk> you may have to do
[01:09] <infinity> Kamion : What's wrong with _exception() { echo $1; return 1; } ?
[01:10] <jbailey> infinity: It only returns you out of the subfunction.
[01:10] <infinity> Oh, duh.
[01:11] <Kamion> Keybuk: nice trick
[01:11] <infinity> jbailey : Of course, s/return/exit/ solves that.
[01:12] <Kamion> infinity: exit is what I'm doing, but it's too big a hammer
[01:12] <Kamion> and I need to save state between calls to the function, so I can't use a subshell
[01:12] <infinity> Kamion : I need to read better.  You wanted to only return from a function, not the script.  Check.  I'll shut up and go back to work. :)
[01:15] <jimmer_> hello all!
[01:16] <jimmer_> anybody here interested in hearing some stuff about my experiences with hoary 5.04?
[01:17] <Kamion> jimmer_: in this channel, we're most interested in hearing stuff that comes with patches :-)
[01:17] <mdz> infinity: do a search, then "change several bugs at once"
[01:17] <Kamion> bugzilla's best for bug reports, or ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com for general reports
[01:18] <quarupt> Is there a Project Manager for Ubuntu?
[01:18] <jimmer_> Kamion, well, that can be fixed... it's just that I don;t know if I want to be an actual part of the Ubuntu effort...
[01:18] <mdz> Kamion: ready for new CD builds?
[01:18] <Kamion> quarupt: what do you mean?
[01:18] <Kamion> mdz: checking
[01:19] <mdz> Kamion: casper-udeb 0.54 is in the archive
[01:19] <quarupt> Well most Open Source projects have one person who Organizes things like meeting releases and such?
[01:19] <mdz> quarupt: why do you ask?
[01:19] <Kamion> right, you could have meant either a program (project management application) or a person :-)
[01:19] <quarupt> Just wondering...
[01:19] <mdz> mvo: night
[01:20] <mvo> night all
[01:20] <schweeb> who  would be in charge of initrdds?  I'm wondering if there's any technical reason that devfs is used still rather than udev, or if it's just not been gotten around to
[01:20] <Kamion> schweeb: me; and we do not use devfs any more, we use udev
[01:20] <Kamion> if you mean the installer initrd, that is
[01:20] <quarupt> devfs is more stable and more documented
[01:21] <Kamion> mdz: new live CDs building
[01:22] <Kamion> quarupt: the two-headed developer known as mdz and jdub handles that function. :-)
[01:22] <quarupt> well i dun like udev since it works entirely in userspace
[01:22] <Kamion> fortunately one head is awake on Pacific time, and the other on Australian time, which is uncommonly useful
[01:22] <Keybuk> since when is jdub on Australian time ?!
[01:23] <Kamion> well, theoretically
[01:23] <schweeb> kamion: no the kernel initrd... generated by mkinitrd when you install a kernel
[01:23] <quarupt> udev will not automatically load a driver if a /dev node is opened
[01:23] <quarupt>    when it is not present like devfs will do
[01:23] <Kamion> schweeb: ah, that would be jbailey
[01:23] <Kamion> schweeb: I believe we're switching to hotplug/udev in initramfs post-hoary
[01:23] <mdz> schweeb: it's a sensitive component and it hasn't been migrated yet
[01:24] <Kamion> quarupt: nevertheless, we have good reasons to switch to udev throughout the entire system and fix the few problems that result
[01:24] <quarupt> Whatever works
[01:24] <mdz> not the least of which is that devfs is deprecated upstream
[01:24] <Kamion> one being that devfs is liable to be removed from the kernel any time soon
[01:25] <Keybuk> quarupt: actually, that's one of the biggest udev/devfs myths known to mankind
[01:25] <quarupt> It should be around until .12
[01:25] <Keybuk> devfs had nothing to do with the automatic module loading
[01:25] <Keybuk> it just happened to massively-populate /dev
[01:25] <Kamion> quarupt: so, hoary+1
[01:25] <Keybuk> so the device node tended to exist when you tried to open it
[01:25] <quarupt> Really?
[01:25] <Kamion> quarupt: might as well get it out of the way now
[01:25] <Keybuk> you can do exactly the same with udev by making the device-nodes exist before time
[01:25] <daniels> mdz: fwiw, I've just dug up my xresprobe 0.5 branch and dragged back the test support for it, so I can fake various fun situations (DDC failing, DDC from a specific EDID file, a laptop probe from a specific log file), so I can test this sort of thing better in the future
[01:25] <mdz> Keybuk: no, devfs actually has its own madness in that department
[01:26] <quarupt> udev isnt for loading kernel modules anyways
[01:26] <Keybuk> mdz: well, yes, as it had its weird filesystem -- but the kernel will load modules when any device node is opened
[01:26] <mdz> Keybuk: with devfs, it loads modules even if the device node doesn't exist
[01:26] <quarupt> mdz, didnt i just say that?
[01:27] <mdz> quarupt: no?
[01:27] <jimmer_> for those of us that don't have a clue what the whole devfs/udev fussis about... like me... http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev-FAQ
[01:27] <Kamion> he did
[01:27] <Kamion> 00:23 < quarupt> udev will not automatically load a driver if a /dev node is opened
[01:27] <Kamion> 00:23 < quarupt>    when it is not present like devfs will do
[01:27] <Keybuk> the answer these days is that if you don't have the module loaded, clearly there's something wrong preventing the hardware from being detected, so loading the module when you try and open the device is going to fail anyway
[01:27] <Kamion> but really, this argument is so six months ago ;)
[01:28] <quarupt> lol true dat
[01:29] <mdz> daily-live rsyncing
[01:29] <quarupt> Hotplug works fine 99% of the time in Hoary anyways
[01:30] <quarupt> Can't say that about many other distro's not out of the box anyways
[01:31] <Keybuk> meh; so you can't Replace a directory with a non-directory
[01:31] <Keybuk> how do we handle that on the backwards equivalent
[01:31] <Kamion> we still have several regressions from discover to fix
[01:31] <schweeb> mdz: ah, thanks... ran in to problems with Xen and devfs on my systems... mostly cause I didn't compile devfs in, and it took me a few to diagnose the problem, heh
[01:32] <quarupt> Do any of you guys actually code for a living?
[01:32] <zul> uh yes
[01:32] <Kamion> most of the people talking with you at the moment do
[01:32] <mdz> stand back, we're professionals
[01:32] <schweeb> lol
[01:32] <quarupt> The most coding I get to do at my job is writing some lame vb script to change something in the AD or system policy
[01:33] <quarupt> I hate my job
[01:33] <quarupt> If we could just run at least our web server on linux id be happy
[01:34] <quarupt> This is so off topic
[01:34] <quarupt> sorry
[01:35] <quarupt> So are we getting close to a release or what?
[01:35] <Keybuk> alt.sysadmin.recovery
[01:35] <Kamion> quarupt: dude; "are we nearly there yet" doesn't go over well in this channel; just letting you know :)
[01:36] <Keybuk> meh, I'm so just going to ignore this
[01:36] <quarupt> Well Hoary seems pretty stable
[01:36] <schweeb> quarupt: just sit back and enjoy the ride
[01:36] <Kamion> quarupt: the release schedule is on the wiki
[01:36] <Keybuk> "can't install banana because it would mean if you'd done this the other way round I'd've broken because you would've replaced a directory with a non-directory ..."
[01:36] <mdz> quarupt: the release date for Hoary was set 6 months ago
[01:36] <mdz> and we are on track to meet our target
[01:36] <quarupt> I wanna deploy Ubuntu at my work on some workstations but he wont let me install anything that is "Beta, Testing, Unstable"
[01:37] <mdz> quarupt: how about "Ubuntu 4.10", our officially supported stable release, then
[01:37] <quarupt> Because Warty is nothing compared to Hoary
[01:37] <mdz> it's "released"
[01:37] <mdz> it's "supported"
[01:37] <jimmer_> quarupt, just install and change /etc/motd and /etc/issue
[01:37] <mdz> it's "stable"
[01:37] <mdz> it gets "security updates"
[01:38] <quarupt> So Hoary is Stable right now too, just not officially
[01:38] <mdz> it "works"
[01:38] <mdz> quarupt: the people you are addressing have a much better idea of Hoary's stability
[01:38] <mdz> because they are the people who are stabilizing it
[01:38] <quarupt> I have had it running for like a month staright running my web server myy ftp and and ssh with over 40 connections a day
[01:38] <quarupt> and it takes it like a man
[01:39] <mdz> thanks for testing it
[01:39] <crimsun> quarupt: seriously, we're straying into off-topic...
[01:39] <quarupt> Im sure they do have a better Idea, Im not complaining Im just trying to say I think its looking awesome
[01:39] <quarupt> Okay sorry again
[01:40] <quarupt> well non-developers cants say much that is on "topic"
[01:40] <mdz> that isn't true
[01:41] <quarupt> Im just another annoying line in someones scroll back buffer trying to catch up on what they missed, when they were sleeping
[01:41] <Kamion> certainly people who aren't yet Ubuntu developers can, and do; it's just that this is not a general chat channel, it's a development channel, and thus development-oriented conversation is appreciated :-)
[01:41] <mdz> that's how you're behaving right now, yes.  but you could easily be helping us to test this milestone we're preparing
[01:41] <Quarupted> How
[01:42] <Kamion> cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/, cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/; burn, test, report
[01:42] <mdz> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[01:42] <Quarupted> I allready use almost 80% of my 4gigs of ram running all sorts of servers and desktop applications
[01:42] <infinity> quarupt : For web servers, there's very little change between warty and hoary, except a few bugs fixed here and there, and a couple incremented features.  With the snail's pace at which server software evolves, combined with a 6-month release schedule, I can't see how upgrading to hoary buys you anything esxcept for missing security updates.
[01:42] <infinity> Quarupted : On the other hand, I'll never turn down someone's offer to beta test things. :)
[01:43] <Quarupted> I love Beta testing
[01:43] <Quarupted> I was there with Potato, Sarge, and now SID
[01:43] <Quarupted> so you want me to burn that image try to install it and report?
[01:43] <Kamion> that's certainly what I've been spending the last few hours on
[01:44] <Kamion> but we can only cover so many cases ourselves
[01:44] <Quarupted> I dont have any free Partitions, but i do have a VMware ready to go
[01:45] <Quarupted> Do you guys have allot of people testing your AMD64 live cd?
[01:45] <Quarupted> I can do that
[01:46] <Kamion> it does get testing, but I'm sure rather less than i386
[01:46] <mdz> amd64-live successful
[01:46] <mdz> Quarupted: yes, please do
[01:46] <Quarupted> im on it
[01:46] <mdz> Quarupted: burn and test as many of those images as you are able
[01:47] <Quarupted> I can only test live ones now, untill i do some resizing on mp Partition table
[01:47] <Quarupted> 666.0 Megs for the AMD64 Live now thats an Omen
[01:49] <Kamion> it's perilously close to being oversized is what it is
[01:49] <Kamion> in fact it's precisely on the mark
[01:49] <Quarupted> yup at 500k its gunna take like 8 Minutes
[01:50] <Kamion> mdz: anything we can take out of that? the next live cloop build will probably overflow it, given partimage breakage
[01:53] <Keybuk> Unpacking banana (from banana_1.0_all.deb) ...
[01:53] <Keybuk> Replaced by files in installed package banana-icecream ...
[01:53] <Keybuk> yayyy
[01:53] <Kamion> mdz: in fact I'm pretty sure we've overflowed the 74min disk limit, judging from what cdrecord is telling me
[01:53] <Kamion> Keybuk: nice
[01:55] <Keybuk> let's try this with one of pitti's PACKAGES OF DOOM
[01:57] <mdz> powerpc-live: success
[01:57] <mdz> Kamion: the amd64 cloop suffers from size creep
[01:57] <mdz> we can reset it, at the expense of rsyncability
[01:57] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, I know
[01:57] <Kamion> but we reset it quite recently
[01:58] <Kamion> and the WinFOSS stuff has made its size jump right up
[01:58] <mdz> yeah, then we upgraded X
[01:58] <mdz> the only thing we could realistically remove from the cloop would be language packs
[01:58] <Kamion> let's ask lamont to reset it tomorrow then
[01:58] <mdz> Kamion: mail pitti to consider trimming language packs in the morning
[01:58] <Kamion> I question whether we can release with it over the limit
[01:59] <Kamion> I suppose we could make it an erratum
[01:59] <Kamion> (Array 7, I mean)
[02:02] <mdz> Kamion: amd64 install dumped me to the menu at time zone configuration
[02:03] <Keybuk> Unpacking language-pack-cy (from language-pack-cy_20050310_all.deb) ...
[02:03] <Keybuk> Selecting previously deselected package language-pack-cy-base.
[02:03] <Keybuk> Unpacking language-pack-cy-base (from language-pack-cy-base_20050310_all.deb) ...
[02:03] <Keybuk> Replaced by files in installed package language-pack-cy ...
[02:03] <Keybuk> Setting up language-pack-cy (20050310) ...
[02:03] <Keybuk> Setting up language-pack-cy-base (20050310) ...
[02:03] <Kamion> mdz: version of tzsetup-udeb?
[02:03] <Kamion> Keybuk: rock
[02:04] <mdz> Kamion: 2.62ubuntu12
[02:04] <mdz> after a successful base-install
[02:04] <mdz> tzsetup-udeb succeeded but requested to be left unconfigured
[02:05] <mdz> is this the rtc issue?
[02:06] <Kamion> no, shouldn't be
[02:06] <Kamion> please send me /var/log/syslog
[02:07] <mdz> powerpc-install made it to archive-copier
[02:07] <Kamion> you might need to put 'set -x' at the top of tzsetup-udeb.postinst and rerun to make it meaningful
[02:07] <mdz> Kamion: emailed
[02:08] <mdz> Kamion: shall I retry from the menu, then?
[02:08] <mdz> (with set -x)
[02:08] <Kamion> mdz: please
[02:10] <mdz> Mar 17 01:09:10 main-menu[4300] : (process:13447): RET=10 tzconfig/gmt doesn't exist
[02:11] <mdz> Kamion: mailed you the full log (take 3)
[02:13] <Keybuk> meh, it breaks with more than one file
[02:13] <mdz> Kamion: tzconfig/gmt is in debconf's db in the chroot, but not in cdebconf's in the initrd
[02:13] <Kamion> bleh, ok, wonder how that worked for me
[02:14] <mdz> wonder how it worked for me on i386
[02:14] <mdz> I mean powerpc
[02:15] <mdz> oh, it didn't
[02:15] <mdz> it dropped me back to the menu after archive-copier
[02:15] <mdz> I thought tzsetup-udeb came first, for some reason
[02:15] <mdz> I propose that if it worked for you, you had different software on your CD
[02:15] <Kamion> that's so weird, I had 3/3 working
[02:15] <Kamion> and rsync says nothing
[02:16] <Kamion> oh
[02:16] <Kamion> none of my installs were on a system where Ubuntu was the only OS on the CD
[02:16] <Kamion> I mean on the hard disk
[02:16] <Kamion> that is the case that fails
[02:17] <Kamion> looks like an install CD delay, then :(
[02:18] <mdz> no d-i build necessary, though, right?
[02:18] <Kamion> nope
[02:21] <Kamion> mdz: this is all down to the GMT-suppression thing being a nasty hack, of course :( it should just lower the priority ...
[02:21] <Quarupted> mdz, im about to boot into the AMD64 live, what kinda things should I test once im in?
[02:21] <daniels> hm, only in pool/main/m, and still got xorg to go
[02:22] <daniels> Quarupted: well, X will only start in 1024x768, so hope to hell that works on yoru stup
[02:22] <daniels> your setup, even
[02:22] <Quarupted> it should
[02:22] <Quarupted> i run 1280x1024 now
[02:23] <Quarupted> Actually nvm, the Image didnt even burn to a disk
[02:23] <daniels> rad
[02:23] <Keybuk> Unpacking language-pack-cy-base (from language-pack-cy-base_20050310_all.deb) ...
[02:23] <Keybuk> Replaced by files in installed package language-pack-cy ...
[02:23] <Keybuk> snarf is keeping existing `./usr/share/locale-langpack/cy/LC_MESSAGES/gok.mo'
[02:23] <Keybuk> snarf is keeping existing `./usr/share/locale-langpack/cy/LC_MESSAGES/messages.mo'
[02:23] <Quarupted> Weird
[02:23] <Keybuk> yayy, fixed that bug
[02:23] <mdz> Quarupheiz; http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/QAtesting
[02:24] <mdz> Keybuk: 164595?
[02:24] <Keybuk> mdz: indeed
[02:24] <mdz> cool
[02:24] <mdz> Keybuk: how afraid do we need to be about putting that fix into hoary?
[02:24] <Quarupted> well i wont be able to test it if i cant get the Image to burn
[02:24] <Keybuk> the fix is getting smaller and smaller
[02:24] <Keybuk> so I'm actually pretty confident that it's safe
[02:25] <Kamion> Quarupted: as I said above, if you only have 650MB disks then it won't burn
[02:25] <Kamion> bah
[02:25] <mdz> Kamion: if you want to build it without the winfoss on it, I've no problem with that
[02:25] <mdz> as a quick and unintrusive fix
[02:25] <Kamion> just temporarily for array 7?
[02:25] <mdz> the winfoss on the amd64 CD is much less interesting than on i386
[02:26] <mdz> Kamion: yeah
[02:26] <mdz> or even permanently, if we could better use the space
[02:26] <mdz> though I imagine we'd trim it rather than remove it entirely
[02:26] <Kamion> Quarupt: 01:25 < Kamion> Quarupted: as I said above, if you only have 650MB disks then it won't burn
[02:27] <Quarupt> there 700MB
[02:27] <Kamion> mdz: ok, removed, rebuilding
[02:29] <Kamion> I'm not going to make :33 I'm afraid
[02:29] <Quarupt> I think its gunna burn alright this time
[02:29] <mdz> Kamion: I can kick cron.daily if necessary
[02:29] <Kamion> ok
[02:29] <Kamion> need to test first
[02:30] <mdz> feel free to send a udeb my way if you need confirmation
[02:30] <Kamion> -               db_fset tzconfig/gmt seen true
[02:30] <Kamion> +               target_debconf sh -c '
[02:30] <Kamion> +                       . /usr/share/debconf/confmodule
[02:30] <Kamion> +                       db_fset tzconfig/gmt seen true'
[02:30] <Kamion> that's the diff to tzsetup-udeb.postinst
[02:30] <Kamion> (basically)
[02:31] <elmo> mdz: I am here, btw
[02:33] <mdz> Kamion: would target_debconf_communicate or similar be a less ugly way of accomplishing the same thing?
[02:34] <Kamion> mdz: yes; but that code will go away soon anyway
[02:34] <Kamion> as previously mentioned it's a buggy approach
[02:34] <Kamion> thully has a bug open on it, wrong expert-mode behaviour
[02:34] <mdz> on a related note, /me adds "cdebconf-copydb" to the list for breezy
[02:35] <Kamion> hell yeah. sadly it needs a total rewrite of cdebconf's rfc822db
[02:35] <mdz> anything else to add to the "gross hacks that should go away" BOF while I'm there?
[02:36] <Kamion> the linux-{386,686,k6,k7,powerpc,whateverthehellelse} grep in base-installer
[02:36] <zul> lol
[02:37] <mdz> done
[02:37] <mdz> I think we ought to specify this stuff in Sydney to ensure that we allocate development time for it
[02:37] <daniels> [FC4T1]  To add insult to injury, opening Firefox greeted us with: "There ought to be release notes for Fedora Core 3.90 here, but there aren't. In the meantime, we bring you this ASCII art hat."
[02:37] <mdz> otherwise we'll be forever implementing new features and not fixing the old ones :-P
[02:37] <Kamion> mdz: yeah
[02:38] <elmo> mdz: but but but fixing things isn't sexy
[02:39] <Kamion> oh, FFS
[02:39] <Kamion> it's so much faster to hit the reset button than it is to wait for the System menu to get its act together and actually appear on the live CD
[02:39] <jbailey> evms-udeb has a binary that depends on ncurses, but I don't see an ncurses udeb.  Where should that be provided from?
[02:39] <Kamion> jbailey: ncurses, I imagine ...
[02:40] <elmo> yeah, can we like, prio-RT whatever is the gnome menu bar process?
[02:40] <elmo> it's so lame that it's always swapped out and takes so long to come up
[02:40] <Kamion> does it *really* want to have its own UI, though? I think not
[02:40] <mdz> evms-udeb is an idea that never actually materialized
[02:41] <wasabi_> evms's interface is pretty decent on it's own. I was thinking of plugging that into it
[02:41] <wasabi_> and just jumpting to it from the partitioner
[02:41] <mdz> elmo: mlockall()
[02:41] <Kamion> should be integrated into partman
[02:41] <wasabi_> I mean, if you want ENTERPRISE volume management... =)
[02:41] <wasabi_> Kamion, partman should show the /dev/evms device certainly, but I really think the evms gui can alter them fine
[02:41] <mdz> it would be feasible to do the things that partman can do with lvm, with evms
[02:41] <jbailey> ah, a'ight.  I'll stop trying to get it to work and figure out why it broke then. =)
[02:41] <mdz> but if you want to do the additional stuff EVMS can do, I think that's madness
[02:42] <Kamion> no, we have enough bugs about back-and-forth in the installer breaking stuff without having another totally unintegrated UI in there
[02:42] <mdz> jbailey: it's never even been in the same room as working
[02:42] <wasabi_> =(
[02:42] <Kamion> I'm fine with using the evms logic and stuff, but it needs to plug into partman
[02:42] <wasabi_> one of these days i'll put it together. ;0
[02:42] <wasabi_> the evms logic is HUGE heh.
[02:42] <Kamion> anyway, I cannot discuss this now
[02:42] <Kamion> that tzsetup-udeb fix was wrong and I need to fix it
[02:43] <Riddell> does ubuntu have a menu entry for running the file manager as root?
[02:43] <jbailey> mdz: 'kay thanks.
[02:45] <zul> mdz: speak of the devil there is an update to megaraid_mmbox
[02:46] <zul> er..megaraid_mbox
[02:46] <Quarupt> The live CD hung up at loading isofs
[02:46] <Quarupt> :(
[02:47] <Quarupt> Must not like my Hardware
[02:47] <Quarupt> dunno
[02:47] <Keybuk> mdz: ok, so what's the plan for this patch?
[02:48] <Keybuk> have done some pretty rigorous tests, and works fine
[02:48] <mdz> Keybuk: cry about the fact that we can't possible test it enough :-(
[02:48] <mdz> s/possible/possibly/
[02:48] <Quarupt> So sorry I couldnt Test it, but i don't think it likes my hardware
[02:49] <mdz> Quarupt: it's a live CD, it likes all hardware
[02:50] <Quarupt> well it wouldnt load isofs tried 3 times wait 5 minutes each time
[02:51] <Keybuk> mdz: heh, but do you want it uploaded or not?
[02:51] <mdz> Keybuk: why the hell not?  we're DOOMED
[02:51] <Keybuk> rofl
[02:51] <mdz> Keybuk: (read: after array 7)
[02:52] <Keybuk> wouldn't before give us more testing?
[02:52] <mdz> Quarupt: that module has nothing to do with your hardware; I strongly suspect the problem is with your media
[02:52] <daniels> wow, I had no idea how bad the stat() damage from the new langpack stuff was
[02:52] <mdz> Keybuk: we're literally preparing it right now
[02:52] <daniels> without strace, starting totem takes under a second on my amd64
[02:53] <jbailey> daniels: It's pretty brutal.
[02:53] <Quarupt> daniels, didnt i mention i tried 3 different copies?
[02:53] <daniels> it takes a bit over 15 seconds with strace, because gnome-terminal just can't handle the staggering amount of crap being spewed to the terminal
[02:53] <daniels> Quarupt: not to me, no
[02:53] <Kamion> mdz: uploaded. don't look at the code
[02:53] <mdz> Kamion: cue elmo?
[02:55] <elmo> cron.daily runing
[02:55] <Kamion> elmo: buildds could probably squeeze in before the next cron.daily, if so ...
[02:55] <elmo> Kamion: buildds pre-dep on cron.daily
[02:55] <Kamion> yeah, I mean if cron.daily mysteriously went off now ;)
[02:56] <elmo> ah
[02:56] <Kamion> assuming it's through cron.unchecked anyway
[02:56] <Kamion> or whatever it's called
[03:02] <mjg59> Suspend to disk and suspend to RAM work perfectly on robot101's obscenely crap craptop
[03:02] <mjg59> TOTALLY RAD LAPTOP SUPPORT
[03:02] <Kamion> oh, crap, tzsetup-udeb.prebaseconfig has the same problem
[03:03] <mdz> Kamion: showstopper?
[03:03] <Kamion> yes, prebaseconfig crashes
[03:03] <daniels> Kamion: i feel your pain
[03:05] <mjg59> robot is upset that he had to go and buy an X40 and it turned out that his laptop worked anyway
[03:05] <mjg59> Totally rad laptop results in decreased life expectency and depression
[03:06] <daniels> mdz: ok, confirmed that xserver-xorg 6.8.2-5 works fine for a) complete DDC failure (asks and respects the mode question), b) upgrade (leaves your config alone), c) ddc (writes the right thing out), and d) laptop (writes the right thing out)
[03:07] <mdz> daniels: sounds good (after array 7)
[03:07] <daniels> mdz: (yeah)
[03:07] <mdz> Kamion: are you sure you don't want to sleep and do this tomorrow?
[03:07] <Kamion> mdz: does the timezone setup thing in casper/pre.d actually do any good whatsoever?
[03:07] <Kamion> yes, sure
[03:07] <daniels> Kamion: if there's anything I can usefully do, let me know
[03:07] <mdz> I'm not fussed if array 7 is delayed by a day
[03:07] <Kamion> because it does fuck-all good in d-i right now, and I want to delete it
[03:08] <mdz> we might as well put in xorg 6.8.2-5 and Keybuk's new dpkg
[03:08] <mdz> and I can undo the casper damage
[03:08] <mdz> Kamion: I have no idea
[03:08] <mdz> Kamion: I haven't tested preseeding a time zone on the live CD, and if it doesn't work for final, I'm not going to cry over it
[03:08] <Kamion> ok, let's leave it until tomorrow :( sorry about this, my fault
[03:08] <mjg59> paracetamoxyfrusybendroneomycin
[03:09] <mdz> Kamion: no worries, thanks for staying up
[03:09] <mdz> daniels, Keybuk: fire when ready
[03:09] <daniels> Kamion: eh, xorg was tanked as well
[03:10] <daniels> mdz: you might as well kick that horror show hack out of casper, then
[03:10] <mdz> daniels: <mdz> and I can undo the casper damage
[03:10] <daniels> mdz: right
[03:10] <daniels> should I cram dbus and dbus-mono in as well?  or since they're for universe shit anyway, probably worth waiting until after just to be totally sure
[03:11] <Kamion> I'd wait
[03:11] <Kamion> if it isn't too much hassle to do so
[03:11] <daniels> (not to demean universe; just using 'shit' as any random grouping of stuff)
[03:11] <daniels> Kamion: yeah
[03:11] <daniels> Kamion: not at all
[03:11] <Kamion> I'm going to stay up a bit more to get these fixes tested properly, then crash
[03:12] <mdz> Kamion: oh, if you're going to do that, then I'll build some candidates later
[03:12] <mdz> (assuming you upload it)
[03:14] <Kamion> mdz: thanks, that'd be good
[03:14] <Kamion> shall I disable the daily cron jobs?
[03:15] <daniels> ok, 6.8.2-5 is up
[03:25] <Kamion> Ubuntu daily/daily-live CD build cron jobs disabled, build 'em manually if you want 'em
[03:38] <sladen> with the amd64 cloop;  can somebody just SCP it across to an i386 machine, partimage -e it and scp it back again.  Hackery, but it'd solve the problem and not loose the rsync status
[03:39] <Kamion> (or run the i386 version with ia32-libs)
[03:46] <Robot101> wow, the fan actually works too
[03:49] <zenwhen> when clean installing hoary, should optical drives beusing dma by default? Mine weren't.
[03:49] <mjg59> robot101's laptop is now entirely love
[03:49] <mdz> mjg59: just how oddball a laptop is it?
[03:49] <mdz> zenwhen: no
[03:49] <zenwhen> oh ok
[03:49] <mdz> zenwhen: #3672
[03:50] <zenwhen> My oddball 266Mhz 4010CDS runs GREAT with hoary.
[03:50] <zenwhen> :)
[03:50] <zenwhen> In all its dual scan lcd glory.
[03:51] <Kamion> mdz: ok, base-config 2.62ubuntu14 should actually work; tested in as many faked-up configurations as I could think of
[03:51] <mdz> Kamion: ok, cheers
[03:53] <mjg59> mdz: It's some ancient FIC thing with a Celeron 366
[03:53] <mjg59> So probably circa 2000
[03:53] <mdz> I should get out my old toshiba and see how it fares with Hoary
[03:54] <mdz> I've been slack on i386 install testing anyway because I don't want to clobber my laptop
[03:54] <zul> toshiba with a a flakey keyboard?
[03:55] <mjg59> Only issue is that the contrast is strange on resume, but it does the same on apm
[03:55] <mjg59> I'm a touch amazed, really
[03:55] <Kamion> hm, s-t-d seems to hang on the Averatec
[03:55] <mjg59> The avaratec is almost as bad as the craptop
[03:56] <Kamion> yeah, via throughout
[03:56] <mjg59> Can you edit /etc/default/acpi-support and switch off dpms, then try s-t-d again?
[03:56] <mjg59> You ought to get more output that way
[04:00] <Kamion> mjg59: that time it suspended, but didn't resume; just came back up normally
[04:00] <mjg59> Kamion: Is this a clean Hoary install? Or an upgrade?
[04:00] <Kamion> mjg59: does it care if my resume partition is mistakenly type 0x83 rather than 0x82?
[04:00] <Kamion> mjg59: clean hoary, and has RESUME= in mkinitrd.conf before you ask
[04:00] <mjg59> Hrm. Possibly.
[04:00] <mjg59> I'd be a bit surprised, though.
[04:00] <mjg59> Possibly that path ought to have more debugging in it...
[04:01] <mjg59> Can you try it with 0x82 and see if it makes a difference? (I'd be surprised, but...)
[04:02] <Kamion> sure, one sec
[04:06] <Kamion> mjg59: changing the type did it
[04:09] <Kamion> mjg59: and it appears to be able to s-t-r, but not resume
[04:09] <Quarupt> the entire first episode of Dr.Who is on Limewire
[04:10] <Kamion> which I guess isn't saying much
[04:13] <zul> later all
[04:17] <mdz> Kamion: what do you think we should do about the en_US/en_GB issue?
[04:17] <mdz> (#4271)
[04:20] <daniels> shit, I forgot to eat
[04:20] <daniels> bbiab
[04:21] <mjg59> Kamion: It worked with a different type? Excellent
[04:21] <mjg59> What's the failure mode on resume from RAM? It just boots instead?
[04:23] <mdz> infinity: are you able to test live or install CDs?
[04:33] <Robot101> /./me i
[04:35] <Keybuk> Quarupt: is incomplete pre-edit version, which rumour has it the BBC leaked deliberately to gain publicity
[04:38] <adamh> I'm thinking of switching over to Ubuntu from Debian. One of the benefits I think I'd get is that I wouldn't have to jhbuild all of GNOME just to hack at Epiphany. Am I right? Are there any GNOME hackers here who switched to Ubuntu? :)
[04:38] <HrdwrBoB> yse
[04:39] <adamh> No more need for jhbuild?
[04:40] <jdub> adamh: quite a few; it's heaps easier tracking the package releases on the development branch, and building just what you need
[04:41] <adamh> jdub: Development branch? <-- hoary?
[04:42] <mdz> currently, yes
[04:43] <adamh> Well, if it works for jdub it's good enough for me! Here we go... goodbye Debian :)
[04:43] <adamh> (The irony here is that I'm going through the trouble of reinstalling my OS just because I'm too lazy to do a kernel recompile)
[04:50] <lamont> Kamion/mdz: reset of amd64 cloop?
[04:51] <Kamion> lamont: not yet please, array 7 not yet done
[04:51] <Kamion> mjg59: just boots instead
[04:51] <lamont> Kamion: just say when.
[04:51] <Kamion> mdz: I have a plan for that one; intending to make localechooser's fallback for English just 'en', so you get LANGUAGE=en_GB:en for British English and en_US:en for American English, etc.
[04:52] <Kamion> mdz: the downside is that en_(other than GB|US) won't get either of en_GB and en_US, which in practice means they'll get American translations rather than British ones, which will probably irritate some people
[04:52] <Kamion> mdz: but for the time being I think that's tolerable
[04:53] <mdz> Kamion: I think that's the best we'll do for hoary
[04:53] <mdz> I'm not even sure what we should do long-term
[04:53] <Kamion> yeah
[04:53] <Kamion> maybe store a list of which countries prefer which variants of English
[04:53] <mdz> it seems like the correct solution would involve identifying the locale of the untranslated strings
[04:53] <Kamion> so en_ZA => en_GB:en, say
[04:53] <Kamion> (warning: may not be true)
[04:53] <Kamion> en_ZA:en_GB:en, rather
[04:53] <Yomic> What version of Python is in Hoary?
[04:54] <mdz> Yomic: 2.4.1a0
[04:54] <Kamion> Yomic: http://higgs.djpig.de/ubuntu/www/
[04:54] <Yomic> Thanks.
[04:55] <Kamion> lamont: tomorrow sometime
[04:55] <Kamion> lamont: would running the i386 partimage binary, as sladen suggested, be feasible?
[04:56] <lamont> Kamion: as a manual action, yes.
[04:57] <Kamion> why not automatic?
[04:58] <mdz> xorg bulit on i386 and amd64
[04:58] <elmo> and ppc
[05:00] <mdz> once those are accepted, we'll roll new livefs builds and install CD builds
[05:01] <infinity> mdz : No burner currently.
[05:09] <mdz> elmo: when can I expect X to reach mirnyy?
[05:11] <Quarupt> if the Acrhive Manger wont open a rar, and either will ark, Ark says unrar isnt in my PATH?
[05:11] <Quarupt> oops wrong chan
[05:14] <elmo> mdz: should be there now
[05:15] <mdz> elmo: hmm, anonftpsync on little doesn't bring it in
[05:18] <mroth> zulcss@gmail.com is "zul" on here, right?
[05:18] <Yomic> To update to hoary, all I have to do is change all the 'warty's to 'hoary's then 'apt-get dist-upgrade' ?
[05:18] <mdz> mroth: yes
[05:18] <mdz> Yomic: HoaryUpgradeNotes in the wiki
[05:18] <Yomic> in the repositories*
[05:18] <Yomic> Okay, thanks.
[05:19] <mroth> mdz: seen him around lately
[05:19] <mdz> mroth: he was here earlier, but is gone for the night
[05:19] <elmo> oh for christ's sake
[05:19] <mroth> mdz: righteo, thanks
[05:20] <elmo> mdz: sorry - I skillfully broke the main archive while setting up the test one; it's syncing now, I'll shout when it's done
[05:20] <mdz> elmo: I'm glad you didn't go to sleep :-)
[05:23] <elmo> mdz: should be good
[05:23] <mdz> syncing little
[05:25] <mdz> elmo: should be clear for livefs builds as well?
[05:25] <mdz> I don't know where they point
[05:25] <elmo> rockhopper's in sync too
[05:25] <elmo> so yeah
[05:26] <elmo> err, auckland, blah
[05:40] <Yomic> In the update to hoary I recieved two 404 errors:
[05:40] <Yomic> Failed to fetch http://ubuntu-bp.sourceforge.net/ubuntu/dists/hoary-backports/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  404 Not Found
[05:40] <Yomic> Failed to fetch http://ubuntu-bp.sourceforge.net/ubuntu/dists/hoary-backports/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz  404 Not Found
[05:41] <lamont> Kamion: hrm.. I was thinking of moving the 2GB fsimage over to an i386 box, running it there, and then pushing it back...  I suppose we could just run the 32-bit i386 binary given the right motivation...
[05:41] <lamont> elmo: livecd rootfs build points at jackass... 
[05:43] <elmo> lamont: because of the md5 mismatch crap or just 'cos?
[05:44] <lamont> because all the other chroots  on the buildd's do too.
[05:44] <lamont> and _that's_ because of the timing issue on the mirror push vs w-b freeing up packages
[05:45] <elmo> yeah, I know why buildds do it, just not sure why live rootfs would need to, but meh, doesn't matter
[05:47] <lamont> the truthful answer is that the same script built the chroot for the livecd fs build...
[05:48] <lamont> and ISTR we had reasons for not wanting the buildd machines hitting a.u.c.  if it should change, it's not a big deal
[05:50] <Quarupt> If I make a script for upgrading to hoary, could you guys put in in the sources or maybe somewhere on the page?
[05:52] <Quarupt> just something that changes all the instances of Warty to Hoary in the sources list, and runs apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade
[05:52] <tseng> something like that should be handled by a competent admin really
[05:52] <tseng> or at least someone who has read over the doc once or twice and is comfortable watching it
[05:52] <tseng> some things shouldnt be scripted, imo
[06:00] <wasabi> I want an Ubuntu business card.
[06:06] <fabbione> morning
[06:26] <Keybuk> fabbione: removing that ipmi patch seemed to fix my laptop
[06:27] <fabbione> Keybuk: seems or it fixes?
[06:27] <Keybuk> well, it's behaving normally now
[06:27] <Keybuk> which I guess counts as "fixed" :)
[06:27] <fabbione> ok thanks
[06:31] <fabbione> -stolen-from-head_053-ipmi_unhandled_message_counting
[06:31] <fabbione> this one right?
[06:31] <Keybuk> yup
[06:32] <fabbione> ok
[06:32] <fabbione> can you give me a short descr of the problem? so i can include it in the changelog..
[06:35] <Keybuk> Missed interrupts causing HP laptops to not correctly set the initial number of fans after boot
[06:36] <fabbione> thanks
[06:37] <fabbione> done
[06:41] <Keybuk> cool, thanks :p
[06:43] <fabbione> no problem
[06:48] <Keybuk> right, time to crash I think
[06:48] <Keybuk> or at least veg for a few hours, and try to push my body clock round to real hours a bit
[07:26] <infinity> Not holding my breath, mind you.
[07:26] <daniels> Pah, php4's a doddle. ;)
[07:27] <infinity> Trying to fix every (real) bug I know of in one upload is always a curious challenge. :)
[07:28] <infinity> ... and bound to fail.
[07:28] <daniels> Well, it fixes every bug you know of, and introduces three tha tyou don't.
[07:28] <infinity> Generally that's the issue, yes. :)
[07:28] <infinity> Though I tend to catch several new bugs on the way too, so I think I still end up ahead.
[07:28] <infinity> Somehow.
[07:29] <daniels> I'm working on fixing bugs I don't know about at the moment.
[07:29] <infinity> Always the worst part. :)
[07:29] <infinity> Especially since you spent all that time creating those bugs in the first place, only to go remove them later.
[07:30] <daniels> Heh.
[07:30] <infinity> No one appreciates the effort that goes into writing buggy software anymore.
[07:30] <infinity> Oh, actually, looks like it's home-time.
[07:31] <infinity> daniels : You around tomorrow morning?... I may need a mess of stuff sponsored at some point.
[07:31] <daniels> mdz: i'm just about to head out; i'll be back at about 1400 UTC.  i'll theoretically be reachable on my mobile, but it would be good if it could wait.  i'll be a good 2h from connectivity even if urgent stuff pops up.
[07:31] <daniels> infinity: yeah, SMS/call if I'm not awake
[07:31] <infinity> daniels : Will do.
[07:32] <mdz> array 7 candidate is up, please test
[07:32] <infinity> daniels : Oh, that reminds me.
[07:32] <daniels> inf	Oh?
[07:32] <daniels> mdz: 20050317?
[07:32] <infinity> daniels : Bring me installer/live CDs to test on my shitty old laptop when you hook me up with the hard drive.  <bat lashes>
[07:33] <mdz> daniels: daily/20050317
[07:33] <infinity> (No burner until we unbox the amd64 beast)
[07:33] <mdz> daily-live/20050317.2
[07:33] <mdz> daily/current and daily-live/current
[07:33] <daniels> inf	Sure.
[07:33] <infinity> daniels : Danke.
[07:35] <dholbach> goooood morning
[07:36] <infinity> mdz : You're welcome to reassign anything even vaguely httpd (libapache*, apache{,2} php, etc) to me, unless thom really objects.  I'm digging through every seriously-irritiating rc-ish bug I can think of in the whole apache dependency chain right now.
[07:36] <infinity> s/httpd/httpd-related/
[07:36] <dilinger> and loving every minute of it, no doubt
[07:36] <infinity> The worst offender being a completely broken php4, of course.
[07:37] <infinity> dilinger : I pretend to enjoy apache2.  The rest drive me near suicide, but that's nothing new. ;)
[07:38] <mdz> daniels: don't go anywhere
[07:38] <mdz> I just did a live CD test and X configuration failed
[07:39] <daniels> define 'failed'
[07:39] <daniels> i.e. what machine is it on, what method is it expected to use, how did it get configured, logs, configuration
[07:39] <mdz> daniels: it's the BusID bug from ilke 3 months ago, returned
[07:40] <mdz> AGAIN
[07:40] <Quarupt> what directory did ya guys stick the kernel headers in?
[07:40] <mdz> Quarupt: support questions in #ubuntu
[07:41] <Quarupt> No one knows there
[07:41] <daniels> mdz: if you could re-run with DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE="developer", that would be much appreciated
[07:41] <mdz> Quarupt: then wait; this is not a support channel (not even a second-tier one)
[07:41] <daniels> mdz: if [ "$1" = "reconfigure" ]  || [ -n "$DEBCONF_RECONFIGURE" ] ; then
[07:41] <daniels> this is not triggering, from xserver-xorg.config.in
[07:42] <Quarupt> Just tell me where the stupid header files arre its a devel question
[07:42] <mdz> Quarupt: I will not explain again
[07:42] <Quarupt> Im asking here because there not in the default location
[07:43] <Quarupt> mdz i dun care about your power trip, this is a dev channel im asking dev questions
[07:43] <mdz> Quarupt: there are developers here who are trying to work, and you are being a nuisance
[07:43] <mdz> I am asking you to take your questions to a more appropriate forum
[07:43] <Quarupt> Please dont speak to me anymore
[07:44] <Quarupt> The headers are not in /usr/src  thats the default, so where are they?
[07:45] <infinity> Quarupt : 'apt-cache search kernel headers', and kindly stop being so abrassive.
[07:45] <dholbach> Quarupt: stop being impolite and use apt-file, dpkg -c, locate, find or whatever to find out - since you're asking developer questions, you should know
[07:46] <Quarupt> no i mean on my machine im not looking for new headers
[07:46] <Quarupt> screw this ill ask in Debian-dev
[07:47] <mroth> I bet they'll love him there.
[07:47] <infinity> I don't see him there.
[07:48] <mdz> daniels: we cannot continue with these 4-hour test cycles
[07:48] <mroth> He's probably asking in xchat-dev how to join a new channel first.
[07:48] <daniels> mdz: four-hour test cycles?
[07:48] <mdz> daniels: where you upload a new xorg, we wait for it to build, build CDs, I download them, and test them
[07:49] <daniels> mdz: if you can get the dpkg-reconfigure thing run with DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE="developer", or get xserver-xorg.config run with sh -x (i.e. change its shebang), I can tell you exactly where the problem lies
[07:50] <mdz> I'll have your debug output in a moment\
[07:50] <daniels> mdz: either $1 isn't "reconfigure", DEBCONF_RECONFIGURE isn't set, XORG_FORCE_PROBE is set to some value other than "yes", or db_reset is not doing its thing
[07:50] <daniels> thanks
[07:50] <mdz> $1 is never "reconfigure" in postinst
[07:51] <daniels> this is config, not postinst
[07:51] <mdz> XORG_FORCE_PROBE is not set
[07:51] <daniels> config has code to run db_reset on every xserver-xorg template if -n "$RECONFIGURE"
[07:51] <daniels> and, in turn, RECONFIGURE=true if $1 = reconfigure or -n $DEBCONF_RECONFIGURE
[07:52] <mdz> xserver-xorg postinst warning: overwriting possibly-customised configuration
[07:52] <mdz>    file; backup in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.200503170650
[07:52] <mdz> dexconf: error: cannot generate configuration file;
[07:52] <mdz> xserver-xorg/config/display/default_depth not set.  Aborting.  Reconfigure the
[07:52] <mdz> X server with "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" to correct this problem.
[07:52] <mdz> xserver-xorg postinst warning: error while preparing new Xorg X server
[07:52] <mdz>    configuration file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.dpkg-new; not attempting to
[07:52] <mdz>    update existing configuration
[07:52] <sabdfl> morning all
[07:52] <mdz> I typo'd the variable name, so I don't have the debug output, but that's stderr
[07:53] <mdz> daniels: I jumped the gun in blaming the BusID thing; it's just not updating the configuration file _at all_
[07:53] <mdz> so it's the one generated on the buildd
[07:53] <mdz> both the busid and everything else
[07:53] <fabbione> morning mdz
[07:53] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[07:53] <daniels> sabdfl: g'morning
[07:53] <fabbione> sabdfl: having fun?
[07:54] <daniels> mdz: sh -x'ing postinst is onw the interesting bit
[07:54] <daniels> actually, no it's not
[07:54] <mdz> daniels: yes, I'm booting the live CD again, and trying to edit the script during the 10-second window, again
[07:55] <mdz> stand by
[07:55] <dholbach> good morning fabbione, sabdfl 
[07:55] <mdz> I refuse to believe that this is specific to the live CD
[07:55] <mdz> did you test dpkg-reconfigure on these packages?
[07:55] <daniels> mdz: humour me -- edit xserver-xorg.postinst.in, look for if [ "$RET" = "false" ] ; then\ndb_set xserver-xorg/config/display/default_depth $DISPLAY_DEPTH\nfi
[07:55] <daniels> mdz: change $DISPLAY_DEPTH to $DEFAULT_DEPTH
[07:56] <mdz> and build new X packages and new CD images again?
[07:56] <mdz> not tonight
[07:56] <daniels> mdz: yes.  tested dpkg-reconfigure and a fresh install with all of a) forced ddc failing, b) forced ddc succeeding, and c) forced laptop succeeding on amd64 and i386; tested upgrades with my standard configuration
[07:56] <daniels> mdz: so I assume there's no way you could edit it before it gets invoked
[07:57] <mdz> xserver-xorg.postinst.in is not a part of the installed package, afaik
[07:57] <daniels> s/.in$//
[07:58] <mdz> daniels: I cannot spend more time on this
[07:58] <mdz> we are going to need to revert, as I said in the first place
[07:59] <mdz> we just blew 5 hours because of this
[07:59] <mdz> and the day after the milestone was due is no time to be debugging the scripts
[08:00] <daniels> mdz: as I said, it works fine here
[08:01] <mdz> it breaks the live CD completely, trust me
[08:01] <daniels> my current bet is on extreme weirdness with the live CD's cdebconf, et al
[08:01] <mdz> the live CD's cdebconf worked spectacularly with 6.8.2-2
[08:01] <daniels> yes, and is now broken with it
[08:02] <daniels> we'll revert back to 6.8.2-2 for array 7, as much as I think that a bad idea
[08:02] <daniels> and I'll keep chasing up this cdebconf stuff
[08:02] <fabbione> hold on....
[08:03] <fabbione> can't we just do in such a way that X detect that it is a liveCD
[08:03] <fabbione> and take appropriate action to explude that kind of code that is "delicate"?
[08:03] <fabbione> instead of bouncing -2 -5 no -3.1?
[08:03] <fabbione> explude -> exclude
[08:03] <daniels> fabbione: i'm pretty sure that I know how to work around the cdebconf breakage, but I'm not too keen on a four-hour cycle, unless ...
[08:04] <daniels> mdz: is there any chance I can convince you to unpack the iso, make a one-line change, and test that?
[08:05] <daniels> mdz: if so:
[08:05] <daniels> 06:55 < daniels> mdz: humour me -- edit xserver-xorg.postinst.in, look for if [ "$RET" = "false" ] ; then\ndb_set                  xserver-xorg/config/display/default_depth $DISPLAY_DEPTH\nfi
[08:05] <daniels> 06:55 < daniels> mdz: change $DISPLAY_DEPTH to $DEFAULT_DEPTH
[08:05] <daniels> if not, I'll revert the debconf code to -2 and we'll ship with that
[08:07] <fabbione> i had the feeling i was melting.. it's over 5C
[08:09] <mdz> daniels: we need to roll back
[08:09] <daniels> mdz: ok.  if you can do that testing anyway, it would help me hugely.
[08:09] <mdz> we have a milestone to release and this code isn't ready; I'm not going to go through another round of tweaking it
[08:10] <daniels> even if it's academic at this point, we need to do this at some stage, so anything you can do towards that end would be a huge help.
[08:12] <mdz> I need for you to be able to do this testing without me
[08:12] <daniels> i am wget'ing the live cd now
[08:12] <mdz> I cannot be xorg debug proxy on top of the other things I need to do
[08:12] <daniels> unfortunately this takes a fairly long time, even on dsl
[08:12] <daniels> which is why i'm not doing it myself
[08:12] <fabbione> daniels: i am going to test with you
[08:13] <fabbione> mdz: don't worry.. i will test with daniels
[08:13] <daniels> fabbione: basically, if you have the live CD, just make that change mentioned above to xserver-xorg.postinst before dpkg-reconfigure gets invoked and it should work
[08:13] <fabbione> daniels: first i need to see if it is broken here
[08:13] <mdz> daniels: you should be able to use a hoary preview live CD and swap in X
[08:14] <mdz> since you have locally-built packages
[08:14] <mdz> fabbione: it'll be broken unless you have an ati card on 0:5:0 or whatever the buildd has
[08:14] <fabbione> mdz: ok.. than i can test :-)
[08:14] <fabbione> as soon as archive allows me to rsync
[08:18] <fabbione> daniels: i have issues to rsync from archive. too many lusers connected
[08:18] <fabbione> daniels: let's revert as mdz suggested and i will test with you later.
[08:18] <fabbione> daniels: does it sound a good plan?
[08:19] <fabbione> daniels: of course only the bits the break
[08:19] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, I'm just in the middle of uploading now
[08:19] <fabbione> daniels: not the entire thingy, since i can see from the changelog that some important stuff went in -4
[08:19] <daniels> i've just kicked xserver-xorg.{config,postinst}.in back to what -2 was
[08:19] <fabbione> ok
[08:19] <fabbione> sounds good
[08:19] <daniels> md5sums match and all
[08:22] <mdz> daniels, fabbione: emailed casper log showing DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE=developer output
[08:22] <fabbione> mdz: perfect. thanks
[08:24] <daniels> mdz: yeah, it's what i thought
[08:26] <fabbione> ok.. rsycing now...
[08:26] <fabbione> ah damn...
[08:27] <fabbione> sparc was just uploading Xorg -5
[08:27] <fabbione> that means another build in a few hours
[08:27] <daniels> yeah, and lots of mirror pain
[08:27] <daniels> given the rapid sequence of -4, -5, -5.1, and then -6 to come reaosnably soon as this code needs testing
[08:28] <mdz> we gambled, and we lost.  now we need to play it safe.
[08:28] <daniels> hence -5.1
[08:39] <dholbach> morning d3vic3 
[08:43] <fabbione> ah there it is.. liveCD
[08:43] <fabbione> yummy
[08:43] <stockholm> fabbione: when do you get up nowadays?! (c:
[08:43] <fabbione> stockholm: 6am usually...
[08:44] <stockholm> fabbione: but no children yet? that is why we get up so early.
[08:44] <fabbione> nope.. no mini-fabbione around ....
[08:44] <fabbione> yet
[08:44] <d3vic3> morning dholbach 
[08:44] <fabbione> hey d3v1c3
[08:45] <d3vic3> hey fabbione 
[08:45] <daniels> fabbione: right, so you'll need to unpack the live CD and cloop as explained in LiveCDCustomizationHowto and then make that change to /var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-xorg.postinst within the cloop, then rebuild it all
[08:45] <daniels> fabbione: you need a fair bit of disk space and a LOT of ram (or a lot of swap)
[08:45] <stockholm> fabbione: i am going to riccione on saturday, playing beach volleyball!
[08:45] <fabbione> daniels: ok don't worry....
[08:45] <fabbione> daniels: can you just only send me the change again via email?
[08:46] <fabbione> daniels: it will take a little while before i will get there
[08:46] <daniels> fabbione: sure
[08:46] <daniels> fabbione: that's fine
[08:46] <fabbione> stockholm: riccione? in march?
[08:46] <fabbione> are you on somekind of crack?
[08:48] <fabbione> daniels: i have ram and disk space... so that's not an issue
[08:49] <daniels> fabbione: awesome ... email sent
[08:50] <stockholm> fabbione: there are allmost 20C now!
[08:50] <stockholm> while here we had 20cm snow over night.
[08:52] <daniels> fabbione: ok, i've gotta go now, already an hour late for dinner with gf's parents and i'm too exhausted to think any more anyway
[08:52] <daniels> fabbione: i'll be back a bit after 1400 utc, have mobile on me if urgent
[08:53] <fabbione> stockholm: ehhee
[08:54] <fabbione> daniels: ok don't worry.
[08:54] <fabbione> daniels: i will sms you if there are problems
[08:56] <Hannes_> whoo, -12C
[08:56] <Hannes_> and snowung
[08:56] <Hannes_> *ing
[08:57] <Hannes_> and 10-25cm of snow
[08:57] <stockholm> Hannes_: where is that?
[08:58] <Hannes_> Pori, finland
[08:59] <stockholm> is that north of wasa?
[08:59] <Hannes_> south of
[09:00] <Hannes_> ~200km
[09:00] <Hannes_> on the coast
[09:00] <stockholm> ok, not *that* far away.
[09:01] <Hannes_> no
[09:01] <Hannes_> in the middle of vasa and bo (turku)
[09:48] <medwards_> Is it appropriate to ask here about the LiveCD construction system?
[09:56] <dholbach> hey mvo 
[09:57] <fabbione> medwards_: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo
[09:57] <mvo> hi dholbach, morning all
[09:57] <fabbione> hey mvo
[09:57] <amu> hey mvo 
[09:57] <fabbione> amu: i get an error starting up kdm
[09:58] <amu> fabbione: apt-get install kubuntu-default-settings
[09:58] <fabbione> amu: "Cannot open theme file /usr/share/apps/kdm/themes/kubuntu"
[09:59] <fabbione> amu: it should probably installed automatically or as Depends:
[09:59] <fabbione> it's anybody working on it?
[09:59] <mvo> hi fabbione, hi amu
[10:00] <mvo> array-7 is not out yet? can I help with testing candidate?
[10:00] <amu> fabbione: yep, dependswas added 
[10:00] <fabbione> mvo: liveCD is borked and we are fixing it
[10:00] <fabbione> it's a problem with X
[10:01] <fabbione> much much better :-)
[10:01] <fabbione> amu: it looks good
[10:02] <mvo> fabbione: install is ok? should I test? or is it already blessed?
[10:02] <fabbione> mvo: please test the install
[10:02] <fabbione> more test is always good
[10:04] <cc> fabbione: ohh no. i'm relying on the livecd :P though i'm using a much older snapshot and it seems to work
[10:06] <TerminX> how can I disable being forced to go through the entire Xorg configuration 3 times whenever the packages are upgraded?  I'm getting real tired of hitting escape
[10:13] <fabbione> sorry jane, do you have one of my emails in which i did this calculation before?
[10:13] <fabbione> ops
[10:26] <svenl> Kamion, mdz: i have a question for you with regard the powerpc kernels.
[10:27] <svenl> Right now, they ship a .coff kernel, which is between 1 and 2 MB big, multiplied by the 6 powerpc flavours.
[10:27] <svenl> Debian removes this file.
[10:28] <Treenaks> what is it used for?
[10:28] <svenl> i believe that with the initrd-kernel concept, it is not only not usefull on any ubuntu supported hardware, but additionally it will not even work, not having the initrd.
[10:28] <svenl> Treenaks: it was for pre-yaboot/quik booting of oldworld powerpc through the serial console OF prompt.
[10:29] <svenl> Treenaks: i doubt it has ever been used in the last 3-6 years, and the mkvmlinuz support allows to generate the .coff from the vmlinux kernel and include the initrd.
[10:29] <Treenaks> svenl: which nobody does nowadays, because of yaboot/quik
[10:29] <svenl> Treenaks: exact.
[10:29] <svenl> Treenaks: fabbione feels uneasy removing it though, this near the hoary release.
[10:30] <svenl> Treenaks: but it would save around 10MB on the powerpc iso, so ...
[10:33] <svenl> which is why i ask Kamion or mdz about it, Kamion as powerpc porter or whatever, and mdz because he mentioned the powerpc iso space limit.
[10:35] <psy_> hi
[10:36] <psy_> does anyone know how you should use gettext in combination with libglade?
[10:38] <dholbach> psy_: the guys in #gtk+ on irc.gnome.org probaly know more about it
[10:39] <psy_> :)
[10:39] <psy_> ty
[10:39] <dholbach> de rien :-)
[11:00] <pitti> Hi guys
[11:00] <dholbach> hi pitti
[11:02] <dholbach> hi seb128 
[11:03] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[11:03] <seb128> hey
[11:03] <pitti> seb128: I know what's wrong with g-vfs, I found the bug :-)
[11:03] <pitti> seb128: (wrt adding harddisk partitions to fstab)
[11:04] <seb128> pitti: oh, cool
[11:04] <seb128> pitti: what is it ?
[11:04] <thom> infinity: oddly, i have no objection :-)
[11:05] <pitti> seb128: initially user_visible is 1, but then gvfs calls a hal_modify_drive (or so) function which sets it to 0
[11:05] <fabbione> hi pitti
[11:05] <fabbione> hey seb
[11:05] <fabbione> morning thom
[11:05] <pitti> seb128: invalid drives work because there is no hal drive
[11:05] <thom> morning folks
[11:05] <pitti> seb128: but valid partitions can't be seen by hal, so the policy sets it to invisible
[11:05] <pitti> seb128: I'm fixing hal for this and also fix gvfs to fix the crash when updating fstab
[11:05] <pitti> Hi fabbione, how are you
[11:06] <fabbione> pitti: busy :-)
[11:06] <seb128> pitti: k, thanks
[11:09] <pitti> fabbione: surprise :-)
[11:09] <fabbione> pitti: do you have anything for me today?
[11:10] <pitti> fabbione: I worked offline until now (modem), I did not read mail yet; but not right now
[11:10] <pitti> fabbione: you prepare a new kernel?
[11:10] <fabbione> ok
[11:10] <fabbione> yeah working on it.. but it won't be uploaded before Array7 is out
[11:11] <dholbach> see you later
[11:11] <ogra> morning
[11:12] <fabbione> ogra: hey dude
[11:12] <pitti> Hi ogra
[11:18] <ogra> seb128, pog
[11:18] <ogra> pong even
[11:18] <seb128> hi
[11:18] <ogra> :)
[11:19] <seb128> should I ping you about the xscreensavers issues ? 
[11:19] <ogra> yup
[11:19] <ogra> i'll start with them today again..
[11:20] <seb128> a sec, I've one 
[11:21] <seb128> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7658
[11:23] <ogra> hmm, wondering how i can reproduce that for testing.....
[11:23] <jordi> mvo: have you talked to jdub and whoever else needs to decide about nano?
[11:24] <ogra> seb128, thanks :)
[11:24] <mvo> jordi: not yet, everyone is busy with array-7
[11:24] <jordi> mvo: that is so minor :P
[11:24] <seb128> ogra: np :p
[11:24] <seb128> hey jordi 
[11:24] <jordi> hi seb
[11:25] <seb128> jordi: not too desapointed by the maintainer upload for your almost new package ? :)
[11:25] <mvo> jordi: compared to get magnificent nano editor :P
[11:25] <jordi> seb128: so happy :)
[11:26] <jordi> seb128: now I wonder if the suid root -> sgid mail fix I introduced in evo will persist when he ploads 2.2
[11:26] <pitti> fabbione: just finished security review, no new kernel stuff today
[11:26] <seb128> jordi: ah ah
[11:26] <fabbione> pitti: thanks
[11:26] <pitti> hey, postgresql 8 in experimental
[11:27] <pitti> thanks elmo/Kinnison
[11:27] <Treenaks> cool
[11:28] <seb128> do we have an upload freeze for the new array ?
[11:28] <seb128> or that's ok to upload ?
[11:29] <fabbione> seb128: freeze i think
[11:29] <seb128> k
[11:29] <fabbione> it also depends what you need to upload
[11:30] <seb128> I don't need anything
[11:30] <seb128> there is some new versions for GNOME stuff, no hurry
[11:30] <seb128> (ie: glade2)
[11:31] <fabbione> probably better to wait after Array7
[11:31] <seb128> yep
[11:31] <seb128> thanks
[11:31] <fabbione> no problem
[11:32] <jordi> mvo: there are further fixes in CVS.
[11:35] <mvo> ping jdub 
[11:35] <mvo> jordi: let's see if jdub is around
[11:41] <jinty> hoi doko__
[11:42] <sivang> jinty: hoi :)
[11:42] <jinty> hey sivang
[11:42] <jinty> looks quiet in here
[11:43] <sivang> jinty: I guess everybody are busy or soemthing
[11:43] <fabbione> hey jinty 
[11:43] <ogra> jinty, nah
[11:43] <jinty> hola all
[11:44] <jinty> so there is life
[11:44] <doko__> jinty: schoolbell in the works ... ;)
[11:45] <jinty> great, thanks, just had a mail on the list asking which repository to use
[11:46] <jinty> now I can reply
[11:53] <Simira> mornin fabbione
[11:54] <Simira> fabbione: how is the temperature in DN nowadays?
[11:54] <mvo> Kamion: "Looking for keymap to install:\nNONE" after the reboot to stage2 in the installer shouldn't be NONE, right?
[11:54] <fabbione> hi Simira 
[11:55] <fabbione> Simira: it's 2 days that is around 6/7 C
[12:11] <fabbione> Kamion: are you around?
[12:14] <Kamion> fabbione: please do go ahead and remove vmlinux.coff; I can think of no reason to keep it
[12:14] <fabbione> Kamion: can you please build livecd with xorg 6.8.2-5.1?
[12:14] <Kamion> mvo: yeah, I don't know what that is, sorry
[12:15] <fabbione> Kamion: we need it for Array 7
[12:15] <fabbione> 6.8.2-5 was borked
[12:15] <Kamion> yeah, just a sec
[12:15] <fabbione> Kamion: ok. i can remove the coff thingy.... i have no issue with that other than breaking something :)
[12:15] <Kamion> I only just woke up
[12:15] <fabbione> Kamion: sure. let me know when i can rsync for testing
[12:15] <pitti> daniels: why is it -5.1 and not -6, BTW?
[12:15] <Simira> fabbione: how wonderful!
[12:15] <amu> Kamion: please also a kubuntu run :)
[12:16] <Kamion> fabbione: svenl's right there, it's an old thing for oldworld
[12:16] <pitti> daniels: the fractions are generally security updates
[12:16] <fabbione> pitti: because he has -6 ready somewhere else
[12:16] <Kamion> and unuseful
[12:16] <pitti> ok
[12:16] <fabbione> Kamion: ok. i am just a bit conservative at this point in time
[12:16] <Kamion> Ubuntu live CDs kicked
[12:16] <fabbione> Kamion: wonderfull
[12:16] <Kamion> fabbione: I think the space saving would indeed be very useful
[12:16] <Kamion> amu: after I'm done with Ubuntu, sure
[12:17] <fabbione> Kamion: done
[12:17] <fabbione> svenl: ^^
[12:34] <fabbione> re
[12:37] <mvo> Kamion: I have a "X failed to start" in my test-install of the current cdimage. I guess that's a known issue already (because of the b0rked X)?
[12:37] <fabbione> mvo: mostlikely yes
[12:38] <Kamion> mvo: I guess ...
[12:38] <Kamion> it's all rebuilding at the moment
[12:40] <mvo> shout when it's ready :)
[12:42] <svenl> fabbione: ok, thanks.
[12:42] <svenl> fabbione: need to investigate the gigabit ethernet issue now, will keep you informed, and fix the hotplug thingy.
[12:43] <fabbione> svenl: i would also like to understand what a user is supposed to do with the mkvinitrd thing
[12:43] <fabbione> ok.. we ship the files.. and ?
[12:43] <fabbione> is it something that happens automatically or does the user have to build his own thing
[12:43] <svenl> fabbione: decide he would like to install ubuntu on a prep box, even if you don't support it officially ? 
[12:44] <Kamion> fabbione: it goes in a kernel-package postinst hook
[12:44] <fabbione> Kamion: yes.. i got that and i can see it
[12:44] <svenl> fabbione: so you can ship yaboot-less one file netboot images for powerpc, especiall for ibm-rs6k, whose firmware is buggy and can netboot only one file, thus no yaboot and separate kernel and initrd.
[12:45] <svenl> Kamion: the mkvmlinuz in hoary (12) does not have the postinst hook magic though, and maybe it is better so.
[12:45] <Kamion> svenl: yeah, we aren't going to change that now I think, it can wait until post-hoary
[12:45] <svenl> Kamion: definitively.
[12:45] <fabbione> svenl: ok, so basically we ship these extra files as helper, but we don't use them directly (yet)
[12:45] <svenl> Kamion: especially as ubuntu has no official support for non-yaboot powerpc.
[12:45] <svenl> fabbione: exact.
[12:45] <fabbione> svenl: how big are they?
[12:46] <svenl> fabbione: we could build netboot chrp and prep images though.
[12:46] <fabbione> we killed the 1~2Mb coff thingy....
[12:46] <Kamion> the extra files are tiny AFAIK
[12:46] <svenl> fabbione: a couple of .o files, let me check.
[12:46] <svenl> 328k uncompressed for debian 2.6.10.
[12:46] <fabbione> last 2 questions... is the tool to create such image aware of the .o location?
[12:46] <svenl> so maybe 100K, don't kno.
[12:47] <svenl> fabbione: you can pass it by -d option (which is done in debian-installer), but it will also locate it from the kernel path.
[12:47] <fabbione> since i move them to linux-<whatever> instead of kernel-
[12:47] <svenl> fabbione: read the manpage, it is rather complete.
[12:47] <svenl> fabbione: i can provide a patch for that, or you could.
[12:47] <Kamion> it hardcodes kernel-image-*
[12:47] <Kamion> we'll have to fix that
[12:47] <svenl> Kamion: easy to fix though.
[12:47] <fabbione> Kamion: ok. what package is?
[12:48] <fabbione> svenl: ok. last question.. can you give me a detailed entry for the changelog? :-)
[12:48] <svenl>     # try a default location, then use the current directory
[12:48] <svenl>     if objdir=/usr/lib/kernel-image-$release; test -d $objdir; then
[12:48] <svenl> this one, at line 135 or thereabout needs changing, nothing more.
[12:49] <svenl> just for mkvmlinuz support ? 
[12:49] <fabbione> svenl: yes please
[12:49] <svenl> yes, the above line is the only one needing change.
[12:49] <fabbione> yes.. in which package?
[12:49] <svenl> mkvmlinuz.
[12:49] <svenl> /usr/sbin/mkvmlinuz
[12:50] <svenl> its a shell script.
[12:50] <fabbione> ok
[12:50] <fabbione> svenl: i want the changelog entry for the kernel package :-)
[12:50] <svenl> will you make it version 12.1 or something such as to not introduce version skew with debian later when you sync ? 
[12:50] <fabbione> svenl 12ubuntu1
[12:50] <fabbione> we have a standard version scheme
[12:52] <pitti> ogra: yay, fixed the fstab bug
[12:54] <fabbione> Kamion: are you ok if i upload it now?
[12:54] <fabbione> (not the kernel...
[12:54] <fabbione> mkvmlinuz)
[12:54] <seb128> pitti: you rock :)
[12:55] <pitti> seb128: you too :-)
[12:55] <seb128> :)
[12:55] <massarino> #ubuntu-it
[12:56] <svenl> fabbione: ok, cool.
[12:56] <svenl> fabbione: i would go ahead, nothing really uses it anyway, so ...
[12:56] <fabbione> svenl: that is not the issue. we are building CD
[12:56] <fabbione> for Array 7
[12:57] <fabbione> i know nothing uses it
[12:57] <svenl> Kamion: does ubuntu's base-installer already not have the mkvmlinuz call ? 
[12:57] <fabbione> but each package that goes in now, might delay testing
[12:57] <fabbione> let's just wait
[12:57] <fabbione> it is more wise
[12:58] <svenl> fabbione: yep, it is not needed anyway right now.
[01:03] <ogra> pitti, WOOT
[01:04] <ogra> :)
[01:09] <seb128> keep some applauds for this afternoon, he's going to squash the libgnomecups bug :p
[01:10] <pitti> brb
[01:13] <Kamion> fabbione: mkvmlinuz> sure, it's not on the CD
[01:13] <Kamion> svenl: not for any subarches I care about, and mkvmlinuz is not on the CD, so
[01:13] <fabbione> ok
[01:13] <fabbione> how is it going with the CD's?
[01:14] <Kamion> install CDs building, live cloops are done
[01:14] <fabbione> rocking
[01:14] <Kamion> however I'm now in the pub so all is much better :)
[01:14] <fabbione> ahhhh
[01:14] <fabbione> ehhehehe
[01:14] <dholbach> Kamion: what time is at your place? 13:14? :-)
[01:14] <fabbione> beer++
[01:14] <Kamion> dholbach: 12:14
[01:14] <dholbach> Kamion: oh yes... i see :-)
[01:15] <Kamion> I generally work with Kinnison on Thursdays, and he wanted to attend his meeting from the pub :)
[01:15] <dholbach> german craftsmen say "Kein Bier vor vier!" (no beer before 16:00) - but i won't stop you ;-)
[01:16] <pitti> sjoerd: here?
[01:16] <thom> Kamion: pub within wifi distance of your house?
[01:16] <thom> nice
[01:16] <Treenaks> dholbach: in dutch it's "Bier uur" (sounds/looks like "Vier uur") ;)
[01:16] <pitti> dholbach: and what about the "Elferzug"? :-)
[01:16] <Kamion> thom: nope, pub with free wifi
[01:16] <thom> ah, even better
[01:16] <Kamion> dholbach: here we talk about the sun being over the yard-arm (i.e. after 12:00)
[01:17] <dholbach> Kamion: sounds much better to me :-)
[01:17] <pitti> #u-devel - where you can learn invaluable cultural facts :-)
[01:17] <dholbach> pitti: quite luckily i live far away enough from cologne to NOT know what the elferzug thinks about it :-)
[01:19] <Kamion> aha, and the bandwidth is better here than at home, too
[01:19] <pitti> Kamion: btw, yesterday I tested the PowerPC DVD, it does not boot at all. does it work for you?
[01:19] <svenl> Kamion: IBM pseries and netbooting ? 
[01:20] <Kamion> pitti: never tried it
[01:20] <Robot101> pub with wireless, I wonder... :)
[01:21] <Kamion> svenl: no idea; mkvmlinuz is in the archive though, so theoretically doable
[01:21] <svenl> Kamion: like said, netboot pulled it in.
[01:22] <seb128> mvo: there is a bug open about improving gksu dialog: #7385. I don't know if you are interested by it, feel free to Cc you and comment if you are :)
[01:23] <Kamion> svenl: right
[01:23] <cc> has kernel-team mail just dropped like crazy, or are there no kernel bugs?
[01:23] <Treenaks> cc: the kernel is officialy Bug Free
[01:23] <svenl> Kamion: not that important, since you are not pulling in mkvmlinuz 13.
[01:23] <cc> Treenaks: or is bugzilla broken :)
[01:23] <fabbione> the kernel does NOT have bugs
[01:24] <fabbione> it's all fault of your buggy hardware
[01:24] <Kamion> cc: kernel-bugs@ now
[01:24] <trukulo> fabbione, 2.6.10 ?
[01:24] <Kamion> pitti: I'll give the DVD a go when I get a chance, but it'll take a while ...
[01:24] <cc> Kamion: oh, didn't realise. someone should've posted to kernel-team. i will now :P
[01:24] <fabbione> Kamion: is install completed?
[01:24] <Kamion> I do have a DVD reader in this laptop, just not a burner
[01:24] <mvo> seb128: thanks, I'll have a look
[01:24] <Kamion> fabbione: yeah, just done
[01:25] <pitti> Kamion: i386 dvd works fine btw (just tested the live part so far)
[01:25] <seb128> mvo: thank you
[01:25] <fabbione> mvo: can you test too please?
[01:25] <Kamion> daily 20050317.1
[01:25] <Kamion> pitti: cool. wonder what broke with powerpc
[01:25] <Kamion> pitti: thanks for testing that though
[01:26] <pitti> is it just me, or do other people also get apt-get authentication errors?
[01:26] <mvo> fabbione: rsyning now
[01:26] <thom> elmo: can you sync lsof 4.74.dfsg.2-1 (in incoming currently)
[01:26] <Kamion> pitti: there's still a low but worrying frequency of those
[01:26] <pitti> Kamion: for ppc, after pressing "c" for CD-ROM boot, I just get a small error message and are immediately thrown back to OF
[01:26] <thom> elmo: (yes, please blow away the ubuntu changes)
[01:27] <dholbach> fabbione: if you have the time, could you maybe have a look at   http://ubuntu.gplan.info/fuse  - the new version changed slightly and i'm not sure if it needs additional changes
[01:28] <fabbione> dholbach: sorry.. not today. please remind me tomorrow
[01:29] <dholbach> fabbione: alright... will do and prepare python-fuse for now
[01:30] <fabbione> guys can you please hold the uploads? we are trying to get Array7 out...
[01:30] <pitti> okay
[01:30] <Kamion> pitti: oh, powerpc didn't build in the last run
[01:31] <pitti> Kamion: I have an older version (dholbach: which one?)
[01:32] <Kamion> pitti: 20050312 looks nominally OK
[01:32] <pitti> dholbach: which version did you send me?
[01:32] <daniels> has anyone tested xorg 6.8.2-5.1 with the cds?
[01:32] <Kamion> daniels: they're still building
[01:32] <pitti> Kamion: for downloading the DVD I tunneled IP-over-snailmail :-)
[01:32] <Kamion> heh
[01:33] <daniels> Kamion: ok
[01:33] <fabbione> daniels: i did it locally
[01:34] <fabbione> daniels: upgrading the livefs from 5 to 5.1
[01:34] <pitti> Kamion: I have 20050308
[01:34] <fabbione> and i did send you the sms :-)
[01:34] <daniels> ok, i'll hang around until the new cds are built, and i can rsync and test the live cd
[01:34] <daniels> yeah, just want to be sure
[01:34] <fabbione> so do i
[01:34] <fabbione> upgrading isn't the same
[01:34] <daniels> last time i went to sleep before something was finished i got woken up a couple of hours later and didn't end up getting back to sleep
[01:34] <daniels> yah
[01:34] <mvo> install-cd is here
[01:35] <daniels> well, we'll find out
[01:35] <Kamion> I'm rsyncing, but I won't be able to actually test for a couple of hours
[01:36] <fabbione> Kamion: is the live up?
[01:37] <Kamion> fabbione: yes, just
[01:37] <Kamion> daily-live 20050317.3
[01:37] <fabbione> is current linked to it?
[01:38] <fabbione> ah there it is
[01:38] <fabbione> come down baby
[01:40] <daniels> for some reason , I'm getting a whopping 14kB/sec, so I haven't actually finished 0317.2 yet.  sigh.
[01:43] <koke> mmm, my inotify is not working, how can I force the menu to re-read the applications thir without killing the panel??
[01:43] <koke> if it's possible :)
[01:45] <Mithrandir> why not just kill the panel?
[01:46] <koke> IIRC some KDE apps in the systray behave strange after killing it. And maybe the update-notifier
[01:47] <mvo> koke: update-notifier should be fixed (it should just restart when the panel was killed)
[01:47] <mvo> koke: please file a bug if not :)
[01:47] <koke> mvo: OK, I'll try
[01:49] <koke> mvo: it's ok. only disappeared kmail and akregator :)
[01:51] <mvo> koke: thanks :)
[01:54] <dholbach> elmo: thanks for getting new libgdamm1.3 through 
[01:54] <mvo> elmo: thanks for the nessus sync!
[01:55] <fabbione> elmo: thanks for your bank account code.. let the packages for the others :-)
[01:58] <Mithrandir> Kamion: is there some way to make ssh grab its password from a pipe/fd?
[02:00] <Kamion> Mithrandir: SSH_ASKPASS?
[02:01] <Mithrandir> Kamion: that's not for passwords, just for passphrases, it seems?
[02:02] <Mithrandir> (and I can't put a public key there, since it's an ssh-accessible public svn repo)
[02:05] <Kamion> Mithrandir: you sure? ssh calls the read_passphrase() function when replying to a password prompt
[02:05] <Mithrandir> SSH_ASKPASS=ssh-askpass ssh root@10.5.0.1
[02:05] <Mithrandir> Password:
[02:05] <Mithrandir> SSH_ASKPASS=ssh-askpass ssh root@10.5.0.1
[02:05] <Mithrandir> Password:
[02:05] <Mithrandir> (sorry for the double)
[02:05] <Kamion> oh, no, it turns off the RP_USE_ASKPASS flag in that code path
[02:05] <Kamion> oh well
[02:06] <Mithrandir> yeah
[02:06] <pitti> seb128: bah, jody changed very much in the new libgnomecups, it's not a simple bugfix
[02:06] <Mithrandir> I should whack the hula people to provide a secret key one can use anonymously for accessing the svn
[02:07] <Kamion> dunno if you can do it with a keyboard-interactive device
[02:07] <pitti> seb128: what is jody's nick? "jody"?
[02:09] <jdub> pitti: yes
[02:09] <seb128> pitti: right
[02:09] <pitti> hmm, he's not online
[02:09] <pitti> I looked in #gnome
[02:09] <seb128> /whois 
[02:09] <seb128> --- [jody]  idle 08:09:57, signon: Thu Mar  3 00:02:18
[02:09] <seb128> you can probably drop a message in query
[02:09] <seb128> jdub: hey !
[02:10] <seb128> jdub: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7279, do we want this entry in the menu ?
[02:11] <jdub> seb128: no, in fact i was just about to ping you about a few of those
[02:11] <jdub> seb128: cd database, database properties, multimedia systems -> should be killed
[02:12] <jdub> i had trouble killing stuff from the prefs menus, but perhaps recent changes in gnome-menus has helped
[02:13] <seb128> jdub: BTW have you seen the panel update ? :)
[02:13] <jdub> yes, saw your upload :-)
[02:14] <seb128> jdub: what trouble ? adding a NoDisplay=true is not enough ?
[02:14] <seb128> we can also drop the entries
[02:14] <jdub> seb128: wanted to do it in gnome-menus rather than individual packages
[02:15] <sivang> pitti: I seem to have a problme with cdbs-edit-patch, I think it's not applying one of the patches I have on d/p 
[02:15] <pitti> sivang: it does not apply patches which come lexicographically _after_ the patch you are editing
[02:15] <pitti> sivang: this is an important feature, not a bug
[02:15] <jdub> anyway, i should go back to bed :-)
[02:16] <sivang> pitti: I wasn't suggesting this was a bug, would you care to explain the rationale?
[02:16] <doko> is there an easy way to determine, if a user is running a KDE or a Gnome environment?
[02:16] <seb128> jdub: I'll mask "cd database, database properties, multimedia systems" for the moment
[02:16] <jdub> doko: not in a particularly sane way, no
[02:16] <Treenaks> doko: you shouldn't need to
[02:16] <Simira> jdub: ping
[02:17] <Simira> jdub: mewants ubuntu-no mailing list!
[02:17] <pitti> sivang: because the patches that come after the one you are editing are also applied later; so the edited patch must not depend on changes from later patches
[02:17] <Treenaks> Simira: how about a "no-ubuntu" mailing list!
[02:17] <jdub> Simira: requests via email please
[02:18] <Simira> Treenaks: ha ha... would that really be a good idea?
[02:18] <I-Rock> YAY
[02:18] <doko> sane or not doesn't matter ;) just want to call the correct email client from OOo evolution or kmail ...
[02:18] <I-Rock> Kamion: LiveCD is go here
[02:18] <Kamion> arch?
[02:18] <Simira> jdub: I have done that... two weeks ago
[02:18] <I-Rock> going to test on the other 2 boxes
[02:18] <sivang> pitti: ah right! 
[02:18] <sivang> pitti: nice :)
[02:18] <Kamion> bah
[02:18] <jdub> doko: there's no appropriate way to detect
[02:18] <jdub> Simira: i don't have an email from you
[02:19] <sivang> not good being a zombie
[02:19] <Simira> jdub: I even sent it on Valentines day!!!
[02:19] <daniels> jdub: yeah
[02:20] <sivang> Simira: don't take it personally, he loves only seb128
[02:20] <sivang> :-)
[02:20] <mvo> Kamion: I just booted the live-cd and I still don't have a german keyboard on the console (X is fine though)
[02:21] <pitti> "still"?
[02:21] <Simira> sivang: but... but... I'm nice! And I want my mailing list!
[02:21] <Treenaks> Simira: just mail him about it then :)
[02:21] <mvo> pitti: "still" means, got that yesterday too
[02:21] <Simira> *sigh*
[02:22] <mvo> Kamion: otherwise it looks fine
[02:23] <fabbione> mvo: did the install work?
[02:23] <Kamion> mvo: ok, I'll have to try that out later; probably not an Array 7 blocker, but could you file a bug please?
[02:23] <mvo> fabbione: stage1 finished, stage2 is running right now
[02:24] <daniels> fabbione: is live any good?
[02:24] <mvo> Kamion: sure, not a big issue, I'll file a bug (install seems to have the same problem in stage2)
[02:24] <Kamion> 'k
[02:25] <Kamion> hm, interesting breakage though
[02:25] <mvo> daniels: just worked fine for my test (X came up with correct keyboard and stuff)
[02:25] <fabbione> daniels: read above "I-Rock"
[02:25] <Kamion> fabbione: what architecture was that?
[02:25] <fabbione> Kamion: i386
[02:25] <fabbione> that's the only one i have here
[02:26] <zul> hey
[02:26] <fabbione> LiveCD is go on 2/3 boxes
[02:26] <daniels> thanks guys, goodnight
[02:27] <fabbione> gnight daniels
[02:27] <dholbach> bye daniels 
[02:27] <zul> night daniels
[02:29] <mvo> night daniels 
[02:30] <pitti> seb128: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=170673
[02:31] <pitti> seb128: this is too much for me; maybe we should rather downgrade to libgnomecups 0.1.4 for now
[02:32] <seb128> pitti: utch, want to epoch for that ?
[02:32] <seb128> on several packages ?
[02:32] <zul> someone was looking for me?
[02:32] <pitti> seb128: hmm, rather not epoch. maybe 0.2+really0.1.4 or so :-)
[02:33] <pitti> seb128: this could require a g-c-m downgrade as well, since g-c-m 0.3 depends on libgnomecups 0.2
[02:33] <seb128> yeah
[02:33] <pitti> *sigh*
[02:33] <seb128> that kind of suck
[02:33] <pitti> let's see what jody says before
[02:33] <seb128> I'll let some days to upstream to reply on that before going in this way
[02:33] <pitti> seb128: indeed, that was what I wanted to propose :-)
[02:34] <pitti> seb128: downgrading is safe and can be done quickly
[02:34] <seb128> right
[02:34] <seb128> thanks pitti
[02:34] <pitti> seb128: np; but no applause today :-(
[02:34] <pitti> :-)
[02:34] <thom> man, redhat's bugzilla is so sweet
[02:34] <seb128> how ?
[02:38] <thom> it's fast, doesn't make my eyes hurt, the interlinking stuff is nice, search is actually useful...
[02:40] <Treenaks> thom: especially the last part is nice
[02:41] <amu> seb128: I found your brother "Riddell, he broke my KDE-panel"
[02:41] <seb128> thom: how, is there a difference in the search ?
[02:41] <seb128> amu: bah, that's normal for KDE, isn't it ? :p
[02:41] <Treenaks> amu: that sounds like a t-shirt quote: "Ridell broke my KDE panel"
[02:41] <thom> seb128: dunno, but it's the only bugzilla i've found that finds stuff that i'm actually looking for :/
[02:41] <seb128> you search for words
[02:41] <amu> seb128: no it isnt such easy ;)  
[02:41] <seb128> perhaps people put useful bugs in it ? :p
[02:42] <thom> that's also possible
[02:42] <seb128> ie: nice description with the right words to find stuff :)
[02:42] <thom> seb128: you mean all the bugs i file shouldn't have "iz gtk boog" as the description?!?
[02:42] <thom> ;-)
[02:43] <amu> Treenaks: hehe, those cafepress? 
[02:43] <Treenaks> amu: ask Keybuk :) he has a "seb128" one
[02:45] <amu> Treenaks: yep saw them, we can order them for all and give them away in .au? 
[02:45] <Treenaks> amu: you could, but I'm not going there :(
[02:48] <amu> Treenaks: you stay so close to me, we could arrange a meeting, and we celebrate the panel day
[02:50] <dholbach> hellas jani 
[02:51] <fabbione> Kamion: ok. 3/3 livecd is GO
[02:51] <jani> hi dholbach
[02:53] <amu> fabbione: did you test with my QA doc? :) 
[02:53] <fabbione> amu: ehm... what QA doc?
[02:54] <amu> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/QAtesting
[02:55] <Kamion> fabbione: cool, thanks
[02:55] <lamont> pitti been around?
[02:55] <fabbione> Kamion: no problem. please hold the images for mdz to approve
[02:56] <Kamion> ?
[02:56] <Kamion> he's normally happy for me to do Array releases by myself
[02:56] <fabbione> Kamion: i think he will test them too
[02:56] <fabbione> ok
[02:56] <Kamion> well, we'll see how my testing goes, back home now
[02:59] <Robot101> lamont: missed him by about 20 mins
[03:00] <lamont> grumble
[03:00] <pitti> re
[03:00] <thom> that's impressive timing
[03:02] <jani> was it decided that evince replaces xpdf as default?
[03:02] <Kamion> mdz was unhappy about making that change at this stage
[03:02] <fabbione> amu: just to fill that page, it would take me more time than writing AI 
[03:03] <Treenaks> jani: is it fully featured then?
[03:03] <jani> It was just my impression at the Friday meeting
[03:03] <dholbach> yes
[03:03] <jani> but see it's still in desktop
[03:03] <jani> but Kamion explained it so ok
[03:05] <jani> anyone here with toolchain building experience?
[03:06] <Treenaks> mvo: yes! and for ldconfig too
[03:07] <Treenaks> (ldconfig takes AGES on my P3-600 laptop)
[03:07] <mvo> Treenaks: my test-machine is a p2-400 :p
[03:08] <pitti> mvo: IMHO it should rather be done with nice 19 in the background
[03:09] <Treenaks> pitti: that breaks when you shutdown immediately after upgrade on a slow machine
[03:09] <mvo> and it seems to try getting stuff from the net :/
[03:09] <Treenaks> (and yes, people will do that)
[03:11] <mvo> Kamion: install-cd is fine here (except the console keymap problem). X comes up, sound looks good and X-keymap is fine too
[03:14] <pitti> Treenaks: hmm, right
[03:15] <pitti> Treenaks: however, I assume it's always the same result after desktop installation? Maybe there can be some sort of pre-caching (not for Hoary, of course)
[03:20] <Kamion> pitti: also don't think it's a good idea to do it in the background because that's exactly the time when people are most likely to try to use the machine and review its responsiveness
[03:20] <pitti> Kamion: hmm, yeah
[03:23] <pitti> Kamion: btw, do your USB devices (WLAN, flash drive, etc.) work after resuming from sleep?
[03:24] <Kamion> I believe that's known-broken on powerpc at the moment
[03:24] <Kamion> benh has said it's non-trivial
[03:24] <pitti> Kamion: if it happens for other folks as well, then I'd like to upload my workaround
[03:25] <ogra> pitti, great news, so we can close all these hal bugs ? :)
[03:25] <pitti> Kamion: #7619 contains my workaround and it works fine for me for about a week now
[03:25] <pitti> ogra: erm, not all of them, I think
[03:25] <pitti> ogra: I just fixed the "drives in /etc/fstab" don't appear" one
[03:26] <ogra> oh, i thought the eternal restartting of gnome-vfs-daemon too....
[03:26] <pitti> ogra: oh, that one too, yes
[03:26] <Kamion> pitti: the suggestion in comment #2 seems reasonable, yeah
[03:26] <pitti> ogra: but I don't know whether this actually fixes something
[03:26] <ogra> so this should match more then 50% of them
[03:26] <Kamion> the "resume script only" one
[03:27] <Kamion> pitti: I haven't tried it myself I'm afraid
[03:27] <ogra> pitti, i think the "my CD player starts over and over again" one at least :)
[03:27] <pitti> Kamion: indeed, that's what I'm using for a week now
[03:27] <pitti> ogra: hmm, I doubt that it's this one; it has not anything to do with g-vfs-daemon
[03:27] <pitti> ogra: that's a g-v-m issue
[03:27] <ogra> doesnt it trigger g-v-m ?
[03:28] <pitti> no, hal triggers g-v-m
[03:28] <ogra> hm
[03:28] <pitti> g-vfs-daemon is just responsible for the computer/places/menu magic
[03:28] <thom> please make it so i can leave a cd in the drive. KTHXBYE
[03:29] <seb128> :)
[03:29] <dholbach> oh yes: http://tseng.ath.cx/log/?p=9 :-)
[03:29] <sivang> thom: why would? I enjoy knowing what there is in the cdrw before writing onto it :-))
[03:30] <thom> sivang: you enjoy being reminded every 5 minutes? 
[03:30] <pitti> thom: EWORKSFORME
[03:30] <pitti> thom: I need a full hal/gvm debugging output 
[03:30] <sivang> thom: not actually, hence the :-)) 
[03:30] <pitti> thom: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingRemovableDevices
[03:31] <sivang> thom: I should haev used <sarcasm></sarcasm> probably
[03:31] <thom> pitti: i'm trying to find a cd that won't annoy me by stealing focus
[03:31] <pitti> thom: turn down the volume :-)
[03:31] <seb128> there is not focus stealing
[03:31] <pitti> mental focus, I assume
[03:31] <seb128> stop the FUD thom :p
[03:32] <sivang> pitti: LOL
[03:33] <thom> seb128: cd player steals focus
[03:33] <thom> seb128: just tested it :P
[03:33] <seb128> roooh
[03:33] <seb128> booog
[03:34] <thom> pitti: i'm not blaming you for that :-)
[03:34] <pitti> sure :-)
[03:34] <smurfix> Another X update, three more rounds of pointlessly debconf-answering every X question in existence. Shouldn't that be fixed by now?
[03:34] <Kamion> we had to revert
[03:34] <pitti> thom: however, I'm very interested in the debug outputs, otherwise I can't do anything about it
[03:34] <smurfix> Kamion: Ouch.
[03:34] <Kamion> smurfix: live CD breakage was more important
[03:35] <sjoerd> pitti: pong
[03:36] <thom> pitti: yup, running now
[03:36] <pitti> sjoerd: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/7641
[03:36] <thom> seb128: want a bug filed or will you just fix it?
[03:36] <pitti> sjoerd: this fix should interest Debian as well
[03:37] <sivang> lol
[03:38] <seb128> thom: put it in bugzilla please
[03:41] <sjoerd> pitti: k, i'll take a look at all the ubuntu stuff for the next package anyway..
[03:42] <dholbach> bbl
[03:49] <thom> is it just me or is bugzilla hating the world currently
[03:50] <seb128> pitti: jody seems to be interested by #6520, let me know if you have an idea on it :)
[03:52] <pitti> seb128: didn't deal with it yet, I have to catch up on security
[03:52] <seb128> k
[03:53] <thom> seb128: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7793
[03:53] <pitti> I slacked with security updates for two days now...
[03:53] <seb128> thom: thanks
[03:53] <thom> seb128: enjoy ;-)
[03:53] <seb128> :p
[03:54] <Burgundavia> jdub: there is a related bug filed by me about naming it
[03:55] <thom> pitti, ogra: just updated #6002
[03:55] <Burgundavia> jdub: nev mind, for some reason xchat hadn't been rolling with the new changes
[03:55] <pitti> thanks
[03:55] <lamont> pitti!
[03:56] <Mitario> hello everyone
[04:00] <ogra> thom, thanks, the log data looks ok to me...
[04:00] <pitti> Hi Mitario 
[04:01] <pitti> ogra, thom: this looks as if your CD-ROM module was unloaded after some time...
[04:01] <ogra> pitti, callout.c:318: Invoking /etc/hal/device.d/40-hal-hotplug-map.hal
[04:01] <ogra> 14:51:59.037 [I]  callout.c:330: Child pid 14002 for 40-hal-hotplug-map.hal
[04:01] <ogra> 14:51:59.038 [I]  callout.c:173: Child pid 14002 terminated
[04:02] <ogra> what about this, seems to occur more then once
[04:02] <pitti> 14:51:56.619 [I]  linux/block_class_device.c:931: Removing volume for no_partitions device /dev/hdc
[04:02] <pitti> this one is the interesting stuff
[04:02] <Mitario> mvo, ping
[04:02] <pitti> it occurs about 15 minutes after the CD was inserted
[04:02] <mvo> hey Mitario 
[04:02] <Mitario> mvo, hi :-)
[04:02] <mvo> hi :)
[04:03] <Mitario> mvo, any updates on update-manager?
[04:03] <fabbione> Kamion: i need to go to the bank.
[04:03] <fabbione> Kamion: i will be back in one hour or so i think
[04:03] <fabbione> can you tell mdz when he wakes up?
[04:03] <Kamion> ok, all looking good here
[04:03] <Kamion> yeah
[04:03] <fabbione> perfect
[04:03] <Kamion> I have a meeting at 4
[04:03] <Kamion> (one hour)
[04:03] <mvo> Mitario: no, no feedback from cvsmaster. and I tried the import too but it looks like it does not accept my ssh-key
[04:03] <fabbione> we should be back more or less at the same time
[04:04] <Mitario> mvo, do you get an error?
[04:04] <fabbione> later
[04:08] <mvo> Mitario: no
[04:08] <Kamion> the evolution splash screen that says that this version is not yet stable is still there
[04:08] <Kamion> I thought that was supposed to have gone away with 2.2?
[04:08] <mvo> Mitario: I get prompted for a login password
[04:08] <Mitario> mvo, ah
[04:09] <mvo> Mitario: so it looks like my key is not yet accepted
[04:10] <Mitario> hmm weird, have you contacted the cvsmaster?
[04:12] <mvo> Mitario: not yet, was busy with other stuff 
[04:12] <Mitario> mvo, ok
[04:13] <mvo> Mitario: will try later
[04:14] <Mitario> mvo, ok :)
[04:17] <torkel> Kamion: I think there was a patch for it on evolution-patches that got accepted, so it will probably be resolved in the next release
[04:19] <pitti> 17.3 live CD for ppc rocks
[04:24] <lamont> mdz: awake yet?
[04:30] <Nafallo> powernowd is screwed again here. I take a look at it.
[04:33] <Kinnison> Hi guys. Any word on when the jimmac cursor theme will be back?
[04:34] <tseng> its back
[04:34] <Kinnison> It is?
[04:34] <tseng> its just missing the file to make it default.
[04:34] <tseng> try gcursor
[04:34] <Kinnison> aah
[04:35] <Kinnison> hmm, mine still look duff
[04:36] <ogra> Kinnison, logout is enough
[04:37] <Nafallo> hmm, I'll restart and see if things are solved.
[04:37] <Kinnison> ogra: didn't seem to do the trick
[04:38] <Kinnison> my cursor in GDM at least still looks cack
[04:38] <ogra> yeah, gcursor only applys to your session
[04:38] <Burgundavia> can I ask for some advice on: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7455
[04:38] <Kinnison> ogra: aah; can I make it the default theme overall?
[04:38] <ogra> Kinnison, blame jdub.... industrial engine has a packaging bug
[04:39] <Kinnison> ogra: *pout*
[04:39] <ogra> but it is known and will get solved...gcursor is only a workaround
[04:40] <Kinnison> Aaah yes; logged in it looks okay. Thanks ever so much guys
[04:40] <ogra> :)
[04:40] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: I might be a developer; but I'm still a picky user too :-)
[04:41] <Burgundavia> Kinnison: that is good. The day you stop being a picky user, that is the day I find a new distro
[04:41] <ogra> Kinnison, oh ? i thought youre a poet
[04:41] <Kinnison> ogra: whatever gave you that idea?
[04:41] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: meep
[04:41] <sivang> Kinnison:   :-)
[04:41] <Kinnison> Burgundavia: pile the stress on why don't you?
[04:42] <Burgundavia> Kinnison: I meant that generally for all devs
[04:42] <Kinnison> sivang: and that demonstrates that pterm has reverted :-(
[04:42] <Kinnison> sivang: My right-to-left support is broken :-(
[04:42] <ogra> Kinnison, your jabberwocky recitation in mataro ;)
[04:42] <sivang> Kinnison: oh oops, sorry 
[04:42] <Kinnison> sivang: Not your fault
[04:42] <Burgundavia> did anyone look at my bug or not?
[04:42] <sivang> Kinnison: I said "Hi Daniel"
[04:42] <sivang> Kinnison: where are you in?
[04:43] <lamont> sivang: I bet Kamion's flat
[04:43] <Kinnison> lamont: Well; Kamion's back room
[04:43] <Kinnison> lamont: of a three story house.
[04:43] <lamont> there's 3 floors there?
[04:43] <Kinnison> yip
[04:44] <lamont> basement, or am I truly that clueless some days?
[04:44] <Kinnison> lamont: ground + two floors upwards
[04:44] <lamont> hrmpf.
[04:44] <lamont> well, ground + more is what I remember - kinda assumed total of 2. :-)
[04:46] <Kinnison> time for me to go
[04:46] <sivang> Kinnison: nice, so you have like a miniconf there :)
[04:46] <Kinnison> c'y'all later
[04:46] <Kinnison> sivang: every thursday pretty much
[04:46] <ogra> Kinnison, ciao
[04:47] <sivang> Kinnison: woo cool
[04:57] <sivang> Riddell: are you having download problems from muse ?
[04:57] <sivang> Riddell: I'm getting rideculeous downstream..
[04:58] <Riddell> sivang: my screen session on muse it running fine
[04:58] <sivang> Riddell: argh, then it's my ISP's fault. I can't even use the screen session itneractively
[05:01] <pitti> seb128: can you please review http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/g-c-m/sivan-gcm-crack.diff ?
[05:01] <pitti> seb128: the code looks fine to me, but now the patch was bloated by update-po
[05:03] <thom> *COCK*
[05:03] <ogra> huh ?
[05:04] <Nafallo> thom: ping?
[05:04] <thom> i needed to swear about my favourite subject
[05:04] <thom> yes
[05:05] <Nafallo> thom: am I correct if I say powernowd's init-script was changed for ubuntu12?
[05:05] <thom> no; the cpufreq detection script was changed
[05:06] <Nafallo> thom: hmm. I try to debug why powernow-k8 doesn't get modprobed.
[05:06] <jordi> muuuu
[05:06] <thom> Nafallo: sudo sh -x /usr/share/doc/cpufreq-detect.sh and attach the output to the bug
[05:06] <sivang> thom !
[05:06] <sivang> :-)
[05:07] <jordi> silly question. Is the new array CDs available already, or not yet?
[05:07] <seb128> pitti: k
[05:07] <jordi> and if so, is today's daily safe?
[05:09] <mvo> jordi: no release yet, but some of us tested the dailes and they are mostly fine
[05:10] <Nafallo> thom: done
[05:10] <jordi> mvo: today's?
[05:10] <mvo> jordi: yes
[05:10] <jordi> http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/daily-live/current/ <--- ie, this
[05:10] <mvo> jordi: yes :)
[05:10] <jordi> ok :)
[05:12] <Kamion> lamont: you wouldn't have noticed the third unless you were paying attention - this house makes good use of what others would consider roof space
[05:12] <Kamion> lamont: although it's somewhat taller than your average two-storey house
[05:13] <Kamion> jordi: today's daily will likely be array 7, tests are good so far
[05:14] <thom> Nafallo: so just running /usr/share/doc/cpufreq-detect.sh returns powernow-k8?
[05:15] <jordi> Kamion: great
[05:17] <Nafallo> thom: I can see nothing wrong with the detection-script. Seems to find me.
[05:18] <Nafallo> thom: nope.
[05:18] <Nafallo> thom: We're a laptop\ powernow-k8
[05:19] <Nafallo> thom: the init-script tries to load "We're a laptop" then? ;-)
[05:21] <thom> aaargh, i knew i should fix that
[05:21] <thom> thanks
[05:24] <Mithrandir> Kamion: could the amd64 scsi-modules-udeb include the i2o drivers as well?
[05:25] <Kamion> Mithrandir: erm, guess so, can't check now though
[05:25] <Nafallo> thom: works when I edited /usr/sbin/laptop-detect not to echo :-).
[05:25] <Mithrandir> Kamion: should I rather file a bug, just?
[05:25] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, might as well
[05:26] <Mithrandir> thanks. :)
[05:27] <mdz> lamont: here
[05:27] <mdz> Kamion: how is it going?
[05:27] <pitti> Morning mdz
[05:27] <zul> hey mdz 
[05:27] <HiddenWolf> Ugh. lots of issues with gamin right now. :S
[05:27] <mdz> morning folks
[05:27] <Nafallo> thom: no problem. bug assigned instead of NEEDINFO :-).
[05:29] <ogra> morning mdz
[05:30] <Nafallo> mdz: morning :-)
[05:31] <sivang> morning mdz
[05:32] <mvo> morning mdz 
[05:32] <Mithrandir> argh, why can't I file a bug on scsi-modules-udeb?
[05:32] <pitti> mdz:  nice to see the new dpkg with fixed Replaces: :-)
[05:32] <mdz> pitti: yes, hopefully we will find some time to test it before release ;-)
[05:32] <pitti> mdz: I'll do ASAP
[05:33] <pitti> mdz: and we can drop the Pre-Depends again and instead introduce the circular dependency
[05:33] <pitti> mdz: if my local tests work, I upload update packages for broader testing :-)
[05:34] <mdz> Mithrandir: because my bugzilla component-o-matic is a quick hack and doesn't look at the d-i Packages files
[05:35] <Mithrandir> mdz: ok, I just filed it against debian-installer.
[05:35] <Mithrandir> hopefully it won't drown there. :)
[05:37] <mdz> I must have just missed Kamion
[05:38] <mdz> seb128: are you here?
[05:40] <seb128> mdz: yep
[05:42] <zul> lunch
[05:43] <mdz> seb128: can you help Jeff with #6172?
[05:44] <mdz> seb128: (the cursor fix)
[05:46] <fabbione> re
[05:46] <Nafallo> thom: nice fix on 7771! :-D
[05:47] <fabbione> mdz: good morning
[05:47] <mdz> fabbione: morning, how is array 7?
[05:47] <fabbione> mdz: ready to go.
[05:47] <pitti> gooooood on ppc
[05:47] <thom> mjg59: i think we need to run ifrename during resume
[05:47] <mdz> fabbione: Kamion is satisfied with it?
[05:47] <pitti> mdz: keyboard works great now on live CD :-)
[05:47] <fabbione> we were waiting for you to release but Kamion had to go out for an hour or so
[05:47] <mdz> I am rsyncing now
[05:47] <mdz> pitti: great!
[05:47] <mdz> ok, since he is out anyway I will do a quick test
[05:47] <fabbione> mdz: we are go for i386 both live and install
[05:47] <seb128> mdz: does he need some help, or is that a "can you see with him to get that fixed now" ? :)
[05:48] <fabbione> mdz: Kamion did his round of tests and reported no problems
[05:48] <mdz> seb128: both; it is a non-trivial fix because it uses alternatives and the packaging needs to un-break the alternative
[05:48] <fabbione> mdz: there is only one bug on console keymaps, but we consider it a non stopper
[05:48] <seb128> mdz: k, will have a look
[05:48] <fabbione> mdz: so everything looks good for A7
[05:48] <mdz> fabbione: regression from preview?
[05:49] <fabbione> mdz: the console keymap is not correct after the selection, but X gets it right
[05:49] <mdz> seb128: currently the alternative points to a nonexistent file and so has reverted to manual mode, due to an upgrade issue some time ago
[05:49] <fabbione> it is exactly the opposite problem we had with warty
[05:50] <fabbione> Kamion was sure to have fixed it, but apparently it wasn't
[05:50] <mdz> seb128: what I believe we need to do is have gtk2-engines-industrial notice this and switch the alternative back to auto
[05:50] <fabbione> and it did show up only on .de keyboards
[05:50] <mdz> seb128: then it should switch itself to the highest priority one as it should be
[05:50] <seb128> mdz: ok
[05:51] <mdz> seb128: we talked about it some in this channel; I can paste you from my log if it would be helpful
[05:51] <seb128> yes please
[05:51] <pitti> fabbione: darn, I didn't test this when I tested the live CD; shall I try this?
[05:51] <fabbione> pitti: if you can..
[05:51] <seb128> and I've not played with the alternatives out of the normal bits before
[05:51] <pitti> fabbione: sure, rebooting now into live CD
[05:51] <pitti> brb
[05:54] <mvo> the keymap issue is reported as #7790
[05:54] <mvo> (just FYI)
[05:55] <fabbione> ok
[05:55] <fabbione> thanks mvo
[05:58] <mdz> mvo: how is the upgrade work going?
[05:58] <mdz> mvo: also I just remembered yesterday that we have not dealt with libgnome2-perl
[06:00] <mvo> mdz: pretty good. I added a comment to #7419 how the removal of ubuntu-desktop can be worked around, I added a debdiff for #7743 (fontconfig upgrade). I can upload after the array-7 release :)
[06:01] <mvo> mdz: about the libgnome2-perl, I can add that as a dependency and upload (I need to look into a synaptic bug anyway). I didn't until now because I wasn't sure if we shouldn't just add libgnome2-perl to the desktop seed
[06:01] <pitti> mdz, fabbione, mvo: .de console keyboard on ppc/live works fine for me; the only regression is that the Apple key does not work like a AltGt
[06:02] <pitti> but all the other keys are correct
[06:02] <pitti> s/AltGt/AltGr/
[06:02] <mdz> amd64-live looks good
[06:02] <pitti> however, I did discover an ugliness
[06:02] <mdz> mvo: I am not sure either
[06:03] <mdz> mvo: probably the desktop seed, since it should be possible to remove it without removing synaptic
[06:03] <pitti> when using the "Check keyboard layout" without having used the "type a few keys" selector first, you get an error
[06:03] <pitti> relatively easy recovery, though
[06:03] <pitti> smurfix: ^
[06:03] <mvo> mdz: nod
[06:04] <smurfix> pitti: Is the correct keyboard name displayed in the first line?
[06:04] <pitti> smurfix: before the bug, it's "Deutsch"; after checking the keyboard, it's "de-latin1-nodeadkeys"
[06:04] <pitti> smurfix: this is ugly as well, btw :-)
[06:04] <mdz> mvo: I am very worried that that frontend has not received sufficient testing, though
[06:05] <mvo> mdz: what frontend? gnome-debconf? 
[06:05] <mdz> mvo: yes.  how many people are using it?
[06:06] <mvo> mdz: it's around for a long time in debian, I use it for all my work. I don't think it will be a problem. but I agree, we should switch to it fast 
[06:06] <mvo> mdz: I can upload a synaptic with that dependency today if you want (I don't think that I can change seeds, can I?)
[06:06] <pitti> mvo: you can
[06:06] <mvo> pitti: oh, nice
[06:07] <bluefoxicy> Hello
[06:07] <mvo> mdz: I would be interessted in your opinion in #7419 (no rush, when you have time)
[06:07] <smurfix> Gah. pitti: that doesn't happen on i386
[06:07] <jordi> mvo: ok, mailed david telling him current CVS seems quite sane (unless you state the contrary), and asking about what's left for 1.3.6
[06:07] <pitti> smurfix: and on your pb?
[06:07] <bluefoxicy> Simply:  Should Ubuntu require a very very fast multi-gigahertz CPU to stay out of the 100%+ range of CPU usage?
[06:07] <ogra> pitti, its ugly, but better then terminal for users
[06:07] <mvo> jordi: thanks!
[06:08] <mdz> powerpc-live looks good
[06:08] <mdz> mvo: ok, let's switch to it immediately after array 7
[06:08] <smurfix> pitti: I do not *have* a powerbook at the moment, though I can grab one tomorrow.
[06:08] <mvo> mdz: ok
[06:08] <bluefoxicy>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S PU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
[06:08] <bluefoxicy> 26252 bluefox   25   0  6264 4984  856 R 40.9  0.6   6:46.17 gam_server
[06:08] <bluefoxicy>  7675 bluefox   25   0 19452 8888 6384 R 40.5  1.1  72:20.71 gnome-settings-
[06:08] <pitti> smurfix: oh, what happened to yours?
[06:08] <mdz> mvo: I had forgotten about it for a while; we should have done it before array 7 :-/
[06:08] <jordi> mvo: now you get your release dudes to think about this change :)
[06:08] <bluefoxicy> err, only wanted the last 2 lines
[06:08] <pitti> mvo: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds--hoary--0
[06:08] <jordi> mvo: in any case, the latest test deb should get some publicity so people test it.
[06:08] <bluefoxicy> But this is pretty continuous, should these two be using 100% CPU together most of the time while I'm not doing anything in particular?
[06:08] <smurfix> Somebody thought my backpack would make a nice addition to his collection. Unfortunately he didn't ask me first.
[06:09] <mdz> jordi: hmmm?
[06:09] <bluefoxicy> (mlnet and X have the other 10%, and rhythmbox)
[06:09] <pitti> smurfix: bah, what a nice guy
[06:09] <mdz> smurfix: no laptop in it, I hope
[06:09] <bluefoxicy> they've been holding 100% CPU usage for a day or so now
[06:09] <fabbione> bluefoxicy: please stop joining the chan and pasting stuff like this. use #ubuntu for support
[06:09] <bluefoxicy> fabbione:  #ubuntu for bugs?
[06:09] <smurfix> mdz: Sure there was.  :-(  :-(
[06:09] <fabbione> bluefoxicy: if it is a bug you use bugzilla.u.c
[06:09] <mdz> smurfix: oh no! :-(
[06:10] <bluefoxicy> fabbione:  does it count if nobody actually ever responds to anything I ask that seems to be a technical issue in #ubuntu?
[06:10] <fabbione> bluefoxicy: not all developers are here at the same time
[06:10] <bluefoxicy> though they do respond to "How do I ..." questions readily.
[06:10] <bluefoxicy> fabbione:  well I wanna make sure this isn't normal :o
[06:10] <smurfix> mdz: My thought exactly.
[06:11] <fabbione> bluefoxicy: open the bug. if it is not a bug, you will be notified by the maintainer
[06:11] <bluefoxicy> fabbione:  and I already tried the bugzilla; firefox sat there for 5 minutes and d idn't download a single byte of bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[06:11] <bluefoxicy> :(
[06:11] <lamont> bluefoxicy: this is the channel to discuss your patch to fix the problem.
[06:12] <bluefoxicy> lamont:  oh, sorry nota  programmer?
[06:12] <mvo> mdz: jordi is working with upstream to get a nano with utf-8 support
[06:12] <mdz> mvo: ah, this does not sound like a hoary change :-)
[06:13] <mvo> mdz: yes, I don't have a good feeling about it. OTOH we'll ship with a broken $EDITOR by default (that can't handle e.g. umlauts)
[06:13] <mdz> mvo: better than risking an editor which has bugs with ascii :-)
[06:13] <jordi> (with a UTF-8 locale)
[06:13] <mdz> nano is the only editor available in the installer
[06:14] <mdz> I don't think there is time to test it sufficiently
[06:14] <jordi> mdz: this mostly affects nano, not nano-udeb.
[06:14] <mdz> jordi: oh?
[06:14] <mdz> do we even ship nano?
[06:14] <jordi> but I agree this is quite late.
[06:14] <jordi> mdz: I guess.
[06:14] <jordi> what's you're easy to use text editor if not? vi?
[06:14] <mdz> hmm, apparently we do
[06:15] <jordi> your even
[06:15] <smurfix> pitti: Can you grab d-i and build a powerpc-netboot ISO for me?
[06:16] <fabbione> smurfix: is that mkvmlinuz thingy?
[06:16] <doko> mdz: we are missing a lot of myspell-<lang> and openoffice.org-hyphenation-<lang> packages for important languages like af, zu and da (well, maybe da is not important). ok to add these packages?
[06:16] <smurfix> fabbione: No, I need to debug a few keyboard selector snags
[06:16] <fabbione> smurfix: ah ok
[06:17] <mdz> doko: ->pitti
[06:17] <sivang> pitti: we have a problem with users-admin, another one :-(
[06:17] <mdz> doko: those packages should be dependencies of the language-support-* packages
[06:17] <pitti> doko: fine for me
[06:17] <smurfix> (or anybody else who's got a ppc box)
[06:17] <jordi> pitti: umh.
[06:17] <pitti> doko: "missing" -> not in the archive, or not in main?
[06:17] <doko> not in the archives
[06:17] <pitti> uh
[06:17] <pitti> in sid?
[06:17] <sivang> pitti: John Richard Jose noted it on the mailing list, when you read it, let me know what you think. the fix doesn't seem small
[06:17] <doko> no
[06:18] <jordi> pitti: someone just downloaded today's daily and he says the translations appear to be incomplete or from stone age
[06:18] <jordi> ie, the GNOME panel menus are not translated at all
[06:18] <jordi> not even "Places", etc.
[06:18] <pitti> jordi: hmm, works fine for me
[06:18] <pitti> jordi: which language?
[06:18] <jordi> Are the mo files those coming from the tarballs?
[06:18] <jordi> ca
[06:18] <pitti> jordi: yes
[06:18] <jordi> gnome-panel is 18:18 < josep> 2.10.0-0ubuntu5
[06:19] <jordi> pitti: weird.
[06:19] <pitti> jordi: are the mo files correct?
[06:20] <jordi> checking with msgunfmt
[06:20] <pitti> doko: I have no problems with new locale packages, they are usually uncritical
[06:20] <pitti> doko: as soon as they are in hoary, I can add them to the support packages
[06:20] <seb128> jordi: you should kick the GNOME ca translators :p
[06:21] <jordi> seb128: I'M NOT KICKING MYSELF DUDE :P
[06:21] <seb128> you should DUDE
[06:21] <jordi> seb128: besides we were finished translating a week early
[06:21] <jordi> DUDE
[06:21] <jordi> :P
[06:21] <mdz> i386-live is good
[06:21] <seb128> BTW have you strace -e open it to see what translation file is used ?
[06:22] <seb128> gnome-session-remove gnome-panel
[06:22] <jordi> seb128: the guy testing tells me the mo files are old :(
[06:22] <seb128> strace -e open gnome-panel
[06:22] <pitti> jordi: version of language-pack-ca-base?
[06:22] <seb128> k
[06:22] <jordi> pitti: in a second
[06:23] <jordi> seb128: it's either your fault or thom's fault.
[06:23] <seb128> WTF ?
[06:23] <pitti> IZ GTK BUG
[06:23] <seb128> iz pitti beeing lame again
[06:23] <seb128> after breaking gnome-cups-manager 
[06:24] <pitti> jordi: no, seriously, I need to know whether the mo files are outdated, or it's pickign the wrong mo file
[06:24] <jordi> pitti: uh, not installed
[06:24] <pitti> HAH
[06:24] <seb128> lol
[06:24] <jordi> this is live cd
[06:24] <pitti> hmm
[06:24] <seb128> we have ca translations on the liveCD now ?
[06:24] <pitti> jordi: I added the package two days ago
[06:24] <jordi> pitti: hopefully he downloaded the correct iso
[06:24] <pitti> ~/ubuntu/seeds-hoary$ grep ca live
[06:24] <pitti>  * language-pack-ca [powerpc ia64] 
[06:25] <pitti> oops
[06:25] <seb128> lol
[06:25] <pitti> jordi: not for live i386
[06:25] <pitti> jordi: ENOSPACE
[06:25] <jordi> 17:10 < jordi> http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/daily-live/current/ <--- ie, this
[06:25] <jordi> pitti: oh
[06:25] <seb128> buy a decent machine
[06:25] <seb128> ie: PPC
[06:25] <pitti> jordi: there is a huge bulk of WinFOSS crap which takes space :-/
[06:25] <jordi> pitti: meh
[06:25] <pitti> jordi: sorry :-(
[06:25] <jordi> ok, he's going to love this :D
[06:25] <pitti> jordi: however, -install has it
[06:25] <jordi> pitti: I will suggest that ca replaces de at some point
[06:26] <seb128> bah, nobody uses de, that's an ugly language
[06:26] <seb128> just drop it
[06:26] <pitti> jordi: squash bug #1, then we don't need WinFOSS any more :-)
[06:26] <pitti> seb128: almost as ugly as fr :-)
[06:26] <seb128> der/die/das, WTF is that :p
[06:27] <seb128> you always pick the wrong one :)
[06:27] <ogra> hehe
[06:27] <jordi> pitti: oh, I remember. Firefox and stuff for windows
[06:27] <jordi> pitti: hmm, #1 is pretty long term.
[06:27] <jordi> I can't wait that much.
[06:27] <seb128> :)
[06:27] <jordi> :)
[06:27] <pitti> jordi: not for hoary at least :-)
[06:27] <smurfix> Umm, so can somebody please build a ppc netinst ISO for me (please add strace while you're at it)? I would like to avoid downloading the whole CD
[06:27] <ogra> seb128, its to confuse the french, we especially invented it for that :-P
[06:28] <seb128> ahah
[06:28] <mdz> amd64-install good
[06:28] <jordi> ok
[06:28] <Kamion> mdz: back now
[06:28] <fabbione> mdz: they are all good...
[06:28] <fabbione> we rock!
[06:28] <fabbione> :)
[06:28] <jordi> so after he installs the package via apt-get, what's an intelligent way of restarting the session without rebooting?
[06:28] <Kamion> was about to do amd64/powerpc live tests if we care
[06:28] <mdz> Kamion: 4/5 successful, powerpc install in stage 2
[06:28] <pitti> mdz: I now up, down, sidegraded langpacks in every possible order, works fine now
[06:28] <Kamion> but I've tried everything else
[06:28] <mdz> Kamion: (that's amd64-live, powerpc-live, amd64-install, i386-live and powerpc-install)
[06:28] <pitti> new dpkg rocks
[06:28] <pitti> Keybuk rocks :-)
[06:28] <mdz> pitti: great, thank Keybuk
[06:28] <Kamion> let me run upstairs and try amd64-live briefly, won't bother with powerpc-live
[06:29] <jordi> pitti: so what did you actually add?
[06:29] <jordi> the ca langpack to the base seed?
[06:29] <pitti> jordi: no, to ship
[06:29] <jordi> ie, everyone will get it installed, or how does that work?
[06:29] <mdz> pitti: do we have space for it on the live CD?
[06:29] <jordi> pitti: please elaborate :)
[06:29] <mirak> jordi: salut
[06:30] <jordi> hi mirak 
[06:30] <pitti> jordi: the installer will try to install l-pack-$YOURLANG
[06:30] <jordi> pitti: nod
[06:30] <mirak> jordi: do you know jordi ?
[06:30] <pitti> jordi: if it's on the CD, you have it and it will always be installed for ca users
[06:30] <pitti> jordi: so not everybody gets every langpack :-)
[06:30] <jordi>      1. To incline or bend, as the head or top; to make a motion
[06:30] <jordi>         of assent, of salutation, or of drowsiness with; as, to
[06:30] <jordi> oops
[06:30] <mirak> jordi was a young singer child
[06:30] <mirak> in france
[06:30] <sivang> mirak: a baby!
[06:30] <mirak> the songs were crap of course
[06:30] <sivang> mirak: "_
[06:31] <jordi> mirak: hmm. no.
[06:31] <sivang> mirak: a baby doing pop music :)
[06:31] <jordi> But I know a miriad of other jordis :)
[06:31] <mirak> not pop music
[06:31] <mirak> crap musi
[06:31] <jordi> pitti: ok :)
[06:31] <mirak> music
[06:31] <mirak> crap with a crap techno beat
[06:31] <sivang> mirak: yes.
[06:31] <pitti> mdz: I filled them up pretty well, up to 630 MB
[06:31] <pitti> mdz: I reserved some space for Xh, though
[06:32] <mdz> pitti: but it would make jordi so happy :-)
[06:32] <mirak> je m'appelle Jordi, j'ai 5 ans et je suis petit
[06:32] <pitti> mdz: i386 is at 636 mb
[06:32] <pitti> mdz: if you are fine with using the spare space, I'll add it immediately :-)
[06:32] <mdz> pitti: how much space?
[06:32] <jordi> mdz: yeah. :)
[06:32] <pitti> mdz: 24 MB left
[06:32] <mdz> 7M installed
[06:32] <pitti> mdz: langpack will take about 4 MB deb
[06:32] <pitti> (roughly)
[06:32] <mdz> so ~2-3M clooped
[06:32] <jordi> I mean, I'm trying to promote this live cd around here so people stop using the Catix crap, which is knoppix/kde based.
[06:33] <mdz> plus the locales, so yeah, maybe 4
[06:33] <mdz> pitti: let's do it
[06:33] <jordi> but it's difficult with such crappy translations inclided :)
[06:33] <mdz> jordi: we don't have enough space for mozilla/openoffice translations, though
[06:33] <pitti> mdz: Installed-Size: 7272
[06:33] <mdz> only the base language pack
[06:33] <jordi> mdz: GNOME would be good
[06:33] <jordi> for a live cd
[06:33] <mdz> jordi: gnome is included
[06:34] <mdz> pitti: kubuntu too? ;-)
[06:34] <pitti> hmm, shall I?
[06:34] <Riddell> ca?
[06:34] <jordi> mdz: is it?
[06:34] <jordi> mdz: you mean now, or it was already?
[06:34] <jordi> because the GNOME translations included seem to be very, very outdated.
[06:34] <mdz> jordi: gnome is part of the base language pack, which pitti is adding now
[06:35] <jordi> oh, so now.
[06:35] <pitti> jordi: in fact they are not outdated, but not present
[06:35] <jordi> that's great guys :)
[06:35] <pitti> jordi: we strip translations from debs
[06:35] <jordi> pitti: some of them are included
[06:35] <mdz> pitti: I think the kubuntu team will need more supportability reviews for main
[06:35] <pitti> jordi: yeah, the still unstripped pacakges
[06:35] <jordi> don't tell me how. But you get bits and pieces in catalan.
[06:35] <mdz> pitti: will you be available for some time tonight?
[06:35] <pitti> mdz: I don't see kubuntu seeds
[06:35] <pitti> mdz: I'm still at the Uni, they will throw me out in about an hour
[06:35] <pitti> mdz: (still no network but modem at home)
[06:36] <Kamion> amd64-live's good
[06:36] <pitti> mdz: but I can work though ssh tonight
[06:36] <seb128> thom: WTF
[06:36] <Kamion> pitti: several binaries from kdepim in particular need reviews urgently in order to be able to build the live CD again
[06:36] <Kamion> mdz: good to go?
[06:36] <mdz> Kamion: my powerpc install is almost finished
[06:36] <pitti> Kamion: okay, will do ASAP
[06:37] <pitti> mdz: btw, we don't strip kde-i18n, and the KDE translatiosn are not in the langpacks
[06:37] <seb128> thom: #7791 #7792 #7793 .. is that enough for you focus bug ? or do you want some extra dups ? :p
[06:37] <pitti> mdz: so Kubuntu will get the translations for the non-kde/gnoome packages, but with much redundancy (all gnome translations, too)
[06:37] <mdz> pitti: hmm, ok
[06:38] <mdz> Kamion: we might as well wait the 3 minutes to be sure it succeeds
[06:38] <Kamion> sure
[06:38] <mdz> Kamion: unless you need to go
[06:38] <Kamion> nope
[06:38] <Kamion> I was away earlier at a meeting with our wedding caterers; nothing on now, until I go to the pub this evening :)
[06:39] <pitti> jordi: committed, the next live CD will contain l-p-ca :-)
[06:39] <jordi> mdz: just to clear the nano thing, it's a no-no, right? It appears to be stable as 1.2 here, but it's development.
[06:39] <jordi> pitti: yay. :)
[06:39] <mdz> mvo: can you check whether it is possible to disable the aptitude "RECOMMENDED BUT NOT INSTALLED" warning non-intrusively?
[06:39] <Riddell> pitti: non encryption ones need to move into main https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuPackagesForMain
[06:39] <mdz> mvo: it confuses many people
[06:39] <mdz> jordi: if it doesn't affect nano-udeb, then it's a possibility
[06:40] <pitti> Riddell: ugh, we need all these packages?
[06:40] <jordi> mdz: that needs to be tested. The best way to test it is to test nano-tiny, which is exactly the same.
[06:40] <Kamion> I can't see how it would not affect nano-udeb
[06:40] <Riddell> pitti: all four of them
[06:40] <Kamion> same source package and all that
[06:40] <mdz> Kamion: but jordi told me so! :-(
[06:40] <Riddell> pitti: and eventually probably the rest too but not for today
[06:40] <Kamion> jordi: can you try building the debian-installer package with your nano-udeb in build/localudebs/?
[06:40] <pitti> Riddell: what about the encryption ones?
[06:40] <pitti> ah, ok
[06:40] <Kamion> mdz: depends what you mean by "affect" :-)
[06:40] <jordi> Kamion: I don't have a local setup here to build a d-i right now.
[06:40] <Riddell> pitti: we're removing encryption from kdepim for today to try and get this preview release out
[06:41] <jordi> and tomorrow is vacation.
[06:41] <Kamion> jordi: ok, can you mail me details of where I can find a source package, so I can test that stuff still builds?
[06:41] <pitti> Riddell: what about lipstik and gpgsm? is it also needed for the preview release?
[06:41] <jordi> Kamion: yes.
[06:42] <jordi> Kamion: build-depends changed, libncursesw5-dev added, but -tiny/-udeb still builds with slang
[06:42] <Riddell> pitti: no to gpgsm, lipstik would be nice (so we can track down kubuntu screenshots)
[06:42] <mdz> elmo: available for some seed syncage?
[06:42] <pitti> Riddell: okay, I start with the non-encryption ones now
[06:45] <jordi> Kamion: it doesn't affect nano udeb in the sense that it's going to suck for utf-8 still
[06:45] <mvo> mdz: I'll have a look into aptitude, I'm pretty confident that it's not too hard
[06:46] <Kamion> jordi: ok
[06:46] <Kamion> jordi: fair enough
[06:47] <thom> seb128: bleah, i dunno
[06:47] <thom> seb128: i blame bugzilla
[06:47] <jordi> Kamion: who knows if I could improve that too
[06:49] <mdz> pitti: actually the kubuntu situation was much simpler than I thought; most of the new packages were simply new binaries of existing source that we had in main
[06:49] <mdz> pitti: so we don't need any more review
[06:50] <pitti> mdz: just finished OpenSLP security update, I will now look at the debs nevertheless :-)
[06:50] <mdz> pitti: the only new source was a theme :-)
[06:50] <pitti> ah, ok
[06:52] <pitti> mdz: indeed; shouldn't that be handled through germinate automatically?
[06:52] <Riddell> pitti: feel free to move onto the encryption packages in that case :)
[06:52] <pitti> sure
[06:53] <seb128> thom: you blame bugzilla, but "CD player viciously steals focus" for #7792 and "gnome-cd viciously steals focus." for #7793 :)
[06:53] <seb128> thom: perhaps you should rather blame firefox :)
[06:54] <mdz> ogra: shouldn't hwdb-client depend on hal?
[06:54] <ogra> hmm, good idea...
[06:54] <ogra> i'll add it 
[06:54] <mdz> pitti: germinate only tells us which packages are in the list, not whether or not they are from new source
[06:54] <pitti> Riddell, mdz: libktnef1 * libkcal2a * akregator * networkstatus debs are fine
[06:55] <pitti> mdz: I meant, shouldn't the debs be automatically propagated to main?
[06:55] <thom> seb128: naw, bugzilla didn't respond *at all* the first couple of times i submitted it
[06:55] <seb128> bugzilla did apparently, firefox didn't :p
[06:55] <Kamion> pitti: no
[06:56] <Kamion> pitti: germinate says "please put this in main"; it doesn't automatically move the binaries into main
[06:56] <pitti> ah, ok
[06:56] <Kamion> pitti: hence mdz's periodic "seed syncage" conversations with elmo
[06:57] <pitti> makes sense
[06:57] <mdz> Kamion: STRUCTURE should be identical in ubuntu and kubuntu, right?
[06:58] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[06:58] <jordi> Kamion: people.debian.org/~jordi/nano has i386 binaries and source. If you find it's good enough, I can push David to release 1.3.6 or do a cleaned up version without a messy changelog.
[06:59] <mdz> Kamion: it looks like they were added separately, so they have different file IDs and this creates a conflict
[06:59] <mdz> Kamion: OK to remove the kubuntu one and merge the ubuntu one instead?
[06:59] <Kamion> mdz: preliminary announcement text in http://riva.ucam.org/~cjwatson/tmp/array-cd-7
[06:59] <Kamion> mdz: good point, yes
[06:59] <Kamion> I just did 'baz add' everywhere and forgot about the peculiarities
[07:00] <Kamion> mdz: have you finished your tests?
[07:00] <mdz> Kamion: ah, yes, sorry.  powerpc-install is good
[07:00] <mdz> 5x5
[07:00] <Kamion> mdz: ok, will publish then if no objections
[07:01] <mdz> none
[07:01] <mdz> array 7 looks great
[07:01] <mdz> thanks Kamion, fabbione, daniels
[07:01] <Kamion> hooray
[07:02] <ogra> yay
[07:04] <mdz> Kamion: I just merged ubuntu->kubuntu seeds again; since apparently I botched the installer stuff the last time, please take a look at it if you have a chance
[07:04] <mdz> it looked entirely sane to me, though
[07:04] <Kamion> mdz: I just checked with diff, as long as they're the same it should be fine
[07:06] <Burgundavia> seb128: ping
[07:06] <Kamion> mdz: looks fine
[07:06] <lamont> mdz: thoughts on the other window when you have time
[07:06] <lamont> robtaylor: any news on that bind patch and your issue?
[07:07] <mdz> lamont: saw it, will get there.  lots of more pressing issues right now
[07:07] <lamont> np.
[07:07] <lamont> just wasn't sure if it was off the edge of the screen or something
[07:09] <seb128> Burgundavia: pong ?
[07:09] <Burgundavia> seb128: regarding bug7455, the xchat one
[07:09] <lamont> Kamion: guess this means I can upload my e2fsprogs fix then?
[07:09] <Burgundavia> seb128: I think we are not understanding each other
[07:09] <Kamion> lamont: yep
[07:10] <Kamion> back to normal feature freeze status now
[07:10] <dholbach> re
[07:10] <Kamion> thanks for people's patience while the CDs got done
[07:10] <seb128> Burgundavia: why ?
[07:10] <Treenaks> 3
[07:10] <Treenaks> hm
[07:11] <Burgundavia> seb128: I just reopened that bug, as it is one, IMHO
[07:11] <seb128> grrrr
[07:11] <kent> seb128, hello. Its me who reported the bug with gthumb. I can try with cvs version of it and see if it fixes my problem, but could you be so kind to tell me the line for cvs to download gthumb? I cant find any information on the sourceforge-page about how to get it via cvs. I have used cvs once or twise before, but I cant figure out how to fetch gthumb from cvs though. :(
[07:11] <seb128> kent: I'll do a package and put it online if you want ... do you have a i386 ?
[07:12] <seb128> Burgundavia: first the screen doesn't come every time, that's an option
[07:12] <seb128> Burgundavia: second that's a property window (user, server, etc) so it follows the HIG
[07:13] <kent> seb128, yes. i386.
[07:13] <seb128> Burgundavia: and you don't provide any good argument out of the fact that you prefer it the other way, which doesn't make a bug
[07:14] <seb128> Burgundavia: the argument of the same software is not good, open gedit's properties and look on the button
[07:15] <seb128> or epiphany
[07:15] <seb128> or whatever other GNOME app
[07:15] <lamont> Pre-Depends: ${mount:Depends}
[07:15] <lamont> that just says 'make mount pre-depend on everything that it should Depend: on'?
[07:16] <Burgundavia> seb128: Common workflow is when the right most button is the one to make it go away. However, in this case we have 2 buttons to "make it go away". However, 95% of the time, the user wants to chat, and thus needs the connect button. The difference between this property windows and those others is that this is shown *before* the app is launched, and thus going away needs to make the app launch
[07:16] <seb128> Burgundavia: that's your usecase
[07:16] <Burgundavia> seb128: yes
[07:16] <seb128> Burgundavia: I only open this dialog to make change and close it then
[07:16] <Burgundavia> seb128: but the dialog comes up before launching the rest of xchat, no?
[07:16] <seb128> opening it every time you run xchat is no sense
[07:17] <seb128> usually people auto-login
[07:17] <seb128> no
[07:17] <seb128> that's a box to check
[07:17] <Burgundavia> I see the box
[07:18] <Kamion> lamont: only if you've a mount:Depends substvar
[07:18] <Burgundavia> What I am saying is this is special properties windows, that usually appears before the app, and thus needs to be treated differently
[07:18] <seb128> lamont: any idea of why gst-plugins0.8 doesn't promote the require Build-Depends to main to build ?
[07:18] <Kamion> lamont: dpkg-dev doesn't create one by default, but your debian/rules might
[07:18] <thom> seb128: is there a reliable way to check wheteher a user has a gnome deskopt running?
[07:18] <lamont> Kamion: I didn't see it create one...
[07:18] <seb128> thom: not afaik
[07:19] <seb128> thom: ugly stuff like looking for gnome-panel running ? :p
[07:19] <ogra> thom, ps ax|grep gnome-session ?
[07:19] <seb128> Burgundavia: there is no "special properties windows"
[07:19] <thom> ogra: no
[07:19] <thom> ogra: it can be x-session-manager, too
[07:19] <ogra> ah, just tried...
[07:19] <thom> (my laptop is x-s-m and my desktop is g-s)
[07:20] <seb128> thom: gnome-panel ?
[07:20] <pitti> Riddell: the packaging of openct really has some bugs...
[07:20] <thom> yeah, panel might be my best bet
[07:20] <lamont> seb128: it's not automatic, you see...
[07:20] <lamont> the correct process is: get approval, update the seeds, get elmo to promote it, then upload.
[07:20] <lamont> or something like that.
[07:20] <ogra> seb128, gnmoe-smproxy ?
[07:20] <ogra> argh
[07:21] <lamont> otherwise you get the looping-annoy-lamont byDate/today.html
[07:21] <ogra> gnome-smproxy
[07:21] <seb128> lamont: mdz said that the depends are automatically promoted IIRC
[07:21] <lamont> seb128: in the report, that's true
[07:21] <dholbach> thom: you get an indicator by using     ps ax | grep -E "(gnome-panel|gnome-sesion|..|..|..)" | wc -l       :-)
[07:21] <seb128> ie: no need to update a seed
[07:21] <lamont> and then the muppet does his magic behind the curtains, and it's there in the archive
[07:21] <seb128> oh, k
[07:21] <lamont> right - if it's only there because of build-deps, true
[07:22] <seb128> I don't care of the "behind the curtains"
[07:22] <seb128> as far as it work :)
[07:22] <thom> dholbach: useful in a script :P ;-)
[07:22] <Riddell> pitti: hmm, card terminal drivers, suspect we manage without that
[07:22] <seb128> the current issue is gst-plugins0.8
[07:22] <lamont> right.  the gst-plugins0.8 package needs a little muppet-love before it'll build
[07:22] <lamont> and then it'll just happen
[07:23] <ogra> thom, i would look for gnome-smproxy, it should get started by gnome-session
[07:23] <Burgundavia> seb128: To me, the next logical thing should be the right most button. Most apps are laid out like that. Thus for most property windows, closing them is the next most logical thing to do. It is not for this case.
[07:23] <lamont> Kamion: subst-vars has to be doing it - the only occurance of 'vars' in debian/rules is removing substvars...
[07:23] <seb128> Burgundavia: for me I open xchat, it autologins and I open only this window to do some changes then close it 
[07:24] <seb128> so the dialog is right
[07:24] <Burgundavia> seb128: but the window opens by default and sits there until you do something
[07:24] <seb128> not my problem
[07:24] <seb128> argue with upstream, or jdub or whatever
[07:24] <Burgundavia> seb128: ok
[07:24] <Kamion> lamont: that's not conclusive :)
[07:24] <Kamion> lamont: try grepping for mount:Depends
[07:24] <Burgundavia> seb128: can we leave the bug open and I will open a bug upstream
[07:24] <seb128> I close the bug, I've enough with 450 in my list without keeping bugs that I'm not going to close
[07:25] <Burgundavia> seb128: ok
[07:25] <seb128> no
[07:25] <seb128> that's not a bug
[07:25] <lamont> Kamion: only the debian/control line
[07:25] <seb128> argue upstream but there is no interest to keep it open in bugzilla
[07:25] <Kamion> lamont: is this in uploaded util-linux? I'll have a look
[07:25] <lamont> yeah
[07:25] <lamont> my specific quandry is that I'm trying to add a version to one of it's depends...
[07:27] <Kamion> lamont: you're using dpkg-shlibdeps -pmount, etc.
[07:27] <Kamion> lamont: that causes dpkg-shlibdeps to write out a mount:Depends substvar rather than the default shlibs:Depends
[07:27] <lamont> yeah
[07:27] <lamont> ah, way cool
[07:28] <Kamion> lamont: debian/shlibs.local would be the traditional way to override that
[07:28] <pitti> Riddell: opensc has several libraries in one deb, too
[07:28] <lamont> you mean what it was doing, or what I want it to do?
[07:28] <Kamion> if something's already mentioned in shlibdeps, but you want a newer version
[07:28] <Kamion> what you want it to do
[07:29] <lamont> and do I need shlibs.local, or mount.local (because of the -pmount)?
[07:30] <Kamion> lamont: shlibs.local; if you want it somewhere else, use -L
[07:30] <lamont> ok
[07:31] <Kamion> frex if you wanted it in just one package, that would be a sensible thing to do
[07:32] <Riddell> pitti: could you add these comments to that wiki page so we don't forget?
[07:32] <pitti> mdz, Riddell: all packages from https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuPackagesForMain but openct and opensc are go
[07:33] <pitti> mdz, Riddell: openct and opensc work security-wise, but they ship multiple libs in one deb, which is against our packaging standards
[07:33] <pitti> mdz, Riddell: but if we need them, I accept them, too
[07:34] <pitti> mdz, Riddell: I add a comment to the wiki page
[07:34] <Riddell> pitti: thanks
[07:34] <pitti> Riddell: lipstik is also ookay, I add it
[07:34] <Riddell> amu, mdz: any thoughts?
[07:35] <mdz> Riddell: specifically?
[07:35] <Riddell> mdz: should we accept openct and opensc
[07:35] <haggai> if we moved the libs to packages, would they get through NEW processing reasonably quickly?
[07:37] <mdz> haggai: assuming pitti approves, yes
[07:37] <pitti> haggai: if these are split to separate debs, they have my blessing
[07:37] <mdz> Riddell: what do we gain?
[07:37] <pitti> mdz, Riddell: however, they deal with external hardware, thus if a bug destroys your smartcard, we will have a hard time 
[07:38] <pitti> with debugging
[07:38] <Riddell> mdz: gpg support in kmail again
[07:38] <fabbione> haggai: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/openoffice.org2_1.9.76-0ubuntu4_20050315-0125.bz2  
[07:38] <pitti> does gpg depend on smartcards?
[07:38] <Riddell> I think leave them out today and we'll look at either removing the need of them from gpgsm or fixing them up
[07:38] <fabbione> haggai: ^^^FTBFS on sparc
[07:38] <mdz> fabbione: ->universe shortly
[07:38] <fabbione> mdz: ok :-)
[07:38] <pitti> Riddell: sounds good
[07:39] <pitti> Riddell: if we can make it work without smartcards, that would rock
[07:39] <pitti> Riddell: so the smartcard stuff can stay in universe
[07:39] <mdz> pitti: what are your thoughts on supporting a gnupg CVS snapshot in addition to the current gnupg?
[07:39] <Riddell> pitti: ok, will make a note to investigate that
[07:39] <pitti> mdz: since it's not setuid any more, we only have algorithmical vulns
[07:40] <pitti> mdz: as a coincidence, we just have a pending gnupg vulnerability
[07:40] <mdz> pitti: yes, but likely not much sympathy from upstream
[07:40] <pitti> mdz: isn't the cvs maintained properly?
[07:40] <pitti> smurfix: what do you think about gnupg2 upstream support?
[07:41] <pitti> mdz: we have the gnupg2 debian maintainer close to us :-)
[07:41] <mdz> pitti: I mean that upstream may not accept responsibility for problems it in since it is unreleased
[07:41] <pitti> oh, right
[07:41] <sivang> pitti: is it you? :)
[07:41] <pitti> sivang: smurfix
[07:41] <sivang> pitti: ah , close enough 
[07:42] <smurfix> sivang: ;-)
[07:42] <mdz> Mithrandir: ping, re: utf8-migration-tool
[07:42] <smurfix> It seems that lately (half year or so) upstream has mostly focused on gnupg1.4
[07:42] <sivang> smurfix: :-)
[07:43] <smurfix> I haven't done a review WRT 1.4 / 1.9 tagged / 1.9 CVS yet -- I should probably do that RSN
[07:43] <pitti> smurfix: so gnupg2 is sort of dead upstream?
[07:43] <jordi> pitti: shouldn't be
[07:44] <pitti> Riddell: is it possible to use kmail with gnupg instead of -2?
[07:44] <smurfix> At the moment, I recommend to stick with 1.4
[07:44] <Riddell> pitti: not sure, amu's been looking after that package.  I would imageine so
[07:44] <smurfix> pitti: yes
[07:45] <smurfix> gnupg 1.4 works rather well with gpg-agent
[07:45] <pitti> okay, then let's do that :-)
[07:45] <smurfix> you just need a "use-agent" in its preferences
[07:45] <smurfix> Caveat: I don't know whether that is true for smartcard support. I already pinged Upstream about that.
[07:46] <pitti> smurfix: oh, we want to try to decouple it from smartcard support anyway
[07:47] <smurfix> pitti: Sure, but if you need to switch background support programs depending on whether the user has a smartcard or not, that'd be uncool
[07:47] <pitti> hmm
[07:47] <pitti> smurfix: we kept out the Nokia communication stuff for the same reason
[07:48] <smurfix> Anyway, I have to go and ubuntuize the neighbor's desktop box now, be back later
[07:49] <mvo> array-7 is out? we can upload again :) ?
[07:51] <Kamion> yep
[07:51] <Mithrandir> mdz: pong?
[07:51] <Mithrandir> mdz: it's still missing the C handling, I can upload with that disabled if you want that.  Then it should upgrade cleanly from all locales but C (and give a message saying "sorry, nocando" for C)
[07:52] <mdz> Mithrandir: release candidate is in 13 days and we haven't really tested this at all :-/
[07:53] <fabbione> jdub: ping?
[07:53] <Mithrandir> mdz: I know and it's my fault. :(
[07:53] <mdz> Mithrandir: I'm not entirely confident about making it a part of the default hoary upgrade path
[07:54] <mdz> the current version in Hoary doesn't seem to run for me
[07:54] <mdz> mizar:[~]  utf8migrationtool
[07:54] <mdz> [...] TypeError: category LC_ALL is not supported
[07:54] <Kamion> Mithrandir: release early, release often :)
[07:55] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I hate to release stuff I know is partially broken
[07:56] <Kamion> if it's an incremental improvement ...
[07:57] <Mithrandir> ok, I'll upload what I have now and hack on the rest on the train tonight
[07:59] <Mithrandir> mdz: does that sound ok?  It's not as good as I hoped to, but it will at least allow some testing
[08:00] <mdz> mvo: still here?
[08:00] <mvo> mdz: yes
[08:00] <mdz> mvo: both workarounds in #7419 sound fine to me; please go ahead
[08:00] <mdz> Mithrandir: ok.  we need to make a decision in the next few days whether we will use it for Hoary
[08:01] <mvo> mdz: thanks a lot!
[08:01] <mdz> mvo: maybe we should do both :-)
[08:01] <mvo> mdz: hehe :) yeah!
[08:02] <mdz> mvo: we should talk in Mataro about how to handle these issues in the future
[08:02] <mdz> we should make some effort to make the metapackages a better upgrade mechanism (or use something different)
[08:03] <mdz> perhaps for hoary+1 we can have a special upgrade tool which knows about the metapackages
[08:03] <mdz> or do this as part of enhancing update-manager for inter-release upgrades
[08:04] <dholbach> mvo: you were going to Mataro? :-)
[08:04] <mdz> er
[08:04] <mdz> s/mataro/sydney/ of course
[08:04] <dholbach> hihi, nevermind :-)
[08:04] <mvo> mdz: sounds good. update-manager is about to be ready for dist-upgrade, I just don't dare to enable it for hoary
[08:06] <dholbach> mvo: you could add a note: "some packages are about to be removed; to adjust your needs, please run the package manager."
[08:06] <mvo> mdz: this particular problem (gnomemeeting) was caused by libpt-plugins-v4l removed from the main component. if I enable universe the dist-upgrade works smooth
[08:06] <mdz> mvo: interesting
[08:07] <mdz> mvo: so if we put it back in main, that should work too?
[08:07] <mvo> dholbach: I would rather avoid removing packages with the current update-managers UI. it's not really suited for that task 
[08:07] <mvo> mdz: yes, I added a fake entry to the packages file and that was good too
[08:07] <Mithrandir> mdz: 0.2 uploaded
[08:08] <dholbach> mvo: i understood, that's why i pointed out you could have a message telling the user, update-manager was about to remove packages
[08:08] <Mithrandir> now I need to pack
[08:08] <mvo> Mithrandir: you travel? 
[08:08] <Mithrandir> mvo: going to dk to visit little sister and Fabio
[08:08] <mvo> mvo: I guess  we need to be extra carefull when moving packages between components
[08:09] <mvo> Mithrandir: oh, sounds like fun! 
[08:09] <Mithrandir> mvo: if you can test the 0.2 which hits the archive RSN for your rename troubles, I'd appreciate.
[08:09] <mvo> Mithrandir: yes, sure. will do!
[08:09] <Mithrandir> mvo: I'm going to be around on irc and read mail, so just privmsg me or drop me a mail
[08:10] <mvo> Mithrandir: thanks! I look forward for a utf-8 clean system :) 
[08:10] <Mithrandir> yay
[08:10] <Mithrandir> :)
[08:14] <pitti> mdz: I can't stay much longer here in the uni, and my stomach cries for some food, so I'd like to go home soon; is there anything urgent for me?
[08:17] <mdz> pitti: no, thanks for staying
[08:33] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok, that's a fairly common failure mode with some hardware. It's not clear what's going on.
[08:34] <mjg59> thom: Urgh. Why?
[08:34] <Kamion> mjg59: which?
[08:35] <mjg59> Kamion: The Avaratec s-t-r thing
[08:36] <mjg59> thom: Can you add a guard to /etc/acpi/resume.sh that only runs vbetool vbestate if the state file exists?
[08:37] <Kamion> mjg59: right; I don't really understand how resume from s-t-r works, hardware-wise
[08:41] <mjg59> Kamion: In theory, the chipset is woken up, reads a memory address from a register, passes that to the CPU and execution continues from there
[08:41] <mjg59> Then the wakeup code does the job of restoring the registers and putting the CPU in protected mode
[08:42] <medwards_> The wiki entry for LiveCD remastering resembles the "Knoppix way" of starting from a CD image and hacking it.  I was kind of hoping for a reproducible LiveCD build system.
[08:43] <Kamion> lamont: is the live cloop build script you use public anywhere?
[08:44] <medwards_> Is that something I can do from the outside, or is everyone skilled in the art too busy with the Hoary release to coach?  (I would understand.)
[08:45] <medwards_> FWIW, I have built a customized installer around debootstrap previously, so I wouldn't need too much coaching.  :)
[08:48] <Kamion> medwards_: it's basically debootstrap/ubuntu-base, install ubuntu-desktop, install ubuntu-live, build cloop from the result; I think there are a fair few fiddly details in there, though
[08:49] <Kamion> which is why I was wondering if lamont had put his script anywhere, since that's the piece that builds our official live cloops
[08:51] <medwards_> Kamion: how dependent is ubuntu-live on ubuntu-desktop?  I'm hoping to switch from HD-installed autobuilders to LiveCD, and would want to take out a lot of the desktop stuff and put in ecj, etc.
[08:52] <mvo> mdz: I send you a patch for queueing in synaptic a while ago for review. do you want to go with that approach? then I'll upload a new synaptic tomorrow with it
[08:52] <mdz> I haven't had time to review it
[08:53] <mvo> mdz: no problem, I just wanted to ask :)
[08:53] <mdz> it seems risky to change the language-support installation at this late stage
[08:53] <mdz> the current behaviour is at least simple and predictable, and we can document its limitations
[08:54] <mdz> and perhaps tackle it properly for Breezy
[08:54] <Kamion> medwards_: you probably wouldn't want to use ubuntu-live as is any more than you'd want to use ubuntu-desktop as is, then
[08:54] <Kamion> mdz: the current behaviour is a real problem when doing lots of installations at once; two parallel installations made my network unusable here
[08:54] <Kamion> (which is a problem with my CBQ rules, but still)
[08:55] <Kamion> I think we should fix it if at all possible
[08:55] <mdz> Kamion: I'm not convinced it's worth the risk of last-minute feature creep
[08:56] <lamont> Kamion: it's not released
[08:56] <lamont> but I think it's on chinstrap
[08:56] <zul> fyi there is a pretty good chance i wont be online tonight much
[08:57] <medwards_> Kamion: I'm happy to hack on ubuntu-live (it can't possibly be worse than starting from Knoppix); I'm really just wondering if there's a strategy for enabling server-oriented derivative LiveCDs.
[08:57] <mdz> zul: enjoy your evening
[08:57] <Kamion> if lamont is happy to release his script, I think that would be valuable
[08:57] <zul> mdz: thanks...must spend time with the wife ;)
[08:57] <mdz> medwards_: for a server-oriented live CD, you probably want to build it yourself
[08:58] <mdz> medwards_: for variations on ubuntu-live, the instructions in the wiki are quite reasonable
[08:59] <medwards_> Kamion: I've been tracking sid for my base system for over a year, so it's been a lifesaver for me to have a fully baked auto-install CD that I can regenerate with "make clean && make".
[09:00] <medwards_> Kamion: but since various bits of /etc are baked in, it's tied to certain things about the hardware (partition layout, SCSI vs. IDE, etc.)
[09:01] <medwards_> Rebasing it on a LiveCD of some kind would be a win.
[09:01] <mdz> I wonder how our TRLS compares to Linspire
[09:02] <medwards_> mdz: the instructions on the wiki are exactly what they should be; most people are remastering for appearance, maybe to add a few pet packages (Marillat's mplayer?)
[09:02] <Kamion> TRLS?
[09:02] <Kamion> oh, totally rad
[09:02] <mdz> medwards_: right, but it sounds like you want more than that
[09:02] <lamont> TRLS?
[09:03] <mdz> the process to build the CDs from scratch is fairly complex at the moment
[09:03] <ogra> wb dholbach 
[09:03] <ogra> *g*
[09:04] <mdz> wow
[09:04] <mdz> mjg59: my Satellite 2545XCDT comes back from STR
[09:04] <mdz> pcmcia ethernet and all
[09:04] <medwards_> mdz: if I can help simplify it (maybe merging in some code I have for following dependency chains associated with goal packages), it might be useful for you.
[09:05] <mdz> medwards_: we have a pretty sophisticated system for that, called "germinate"
[09:05] <mdz> there's some information in the wiki
[09:05] <Kamion> damn, I meant to upload germinate to Hoary
[09:06] <Kamion> might still be able to squeeze that in
[09:06] <medwards_> mdz: yes, I'm impressed; mine's a little different, since it aims at build-depends and tries to do it in overlay stages.
[09:06] <Kamion> medwards_: colin.watson@canonical.com--2004/germinate--mainline--0 in arch
[09:06] <Kamion> does build-deps too :)
[09:07] <Kamion> but I'd certainly be interested to look at other strategies for doing the same thing
[09:07] <medwards_> Kamion: excellent.  Stacking translucent overlays to make a buildd chroot could really help with the whole buildd-corruption thing.
[09:08] <medwards_> How does mini-fo compare with unionfs in that respect?
[09:08] <mjg59> mdz: Excellent
[09:10] <mdz> mjg59: we'll have some pretty rich data coming in from hwdb-client in Hoary, should be a good starting point for a STR whitelist for hoary+1 to enable it out of the box where it works
[09:11] <ogra> mjg59, yeah, we should talk about it once, to make sure i collect the right data for you ;)
[09:11] <lamont> mdz: it's called breezy :-)(
[09:11] <Kamion> medwards_: we don't use mini-fo any more, we use device-mapper snapshotting
[09:11] <lamont> mini-fo bad.  very evil.
[09:11] <Kamion> medwards_: the code's in the casper source package
[09:11] <ogra> mjg59, currently the dmi data is already collected...but i imagine you might like other stuff too
[09:12] <mjg59> lspci would also be good
[09:13] <medwards_> The thing I like about unionfs in principle is that, since it operates above the filesystem level, one can stack, say, jffs2 on a USB stick on top of a squashfs.
[09:13] <mjg59> Kamion: Does d-i have any support for adding different boot options based on DMI data?
[09:13] <ogra> mjg59, install hwdb-client and run hwdb-xml -d or hwdb-xml -a (all hal data)
[09:13] <seb128> kent: http://pkg-gnome.alioth.debian.org/gthumb_2.6.3cvs20050317-0ubuntu1_i386.deb if you want to try with this package
[09:13] <medwards_> Is there any way to get flash-friendly write balancing with device-mapper?
[09:14] <medwards_> oh, by the way ... torrent for array-7?
[09:14] <ogra> mjg59, should be the same as lspci....needs probably a filter since its everything
[09:15] <mjg59> ogra: Ok, cool
[09:15] <Kamion> mjg59: not that I know of right now, guess it wouldn't be hard
[09:15] <Kamion> medwards_: damn, forgot
[09:15] <mjg59> Kamion: I've got a couple of machines here that it would be insanely useful for
[09:16] <mdz> mjg59: machines which will boot d-i with no options, but require options to work properly thereafter?
[09:16] <mjg59> mdz: Yeah
[09:16] <mdz> the toshiba craptop took quite a long time to swsusp, but it got there
[09:17] <mdz> will know shortly whether it wakes up
[09:17] <Kamion> mjg59: we have a dmidecode-udeb, could easily do shell scripting around that in the bootloader installers or something
[09:17] <medwards_> Should I expect array-7 to support ipw2100 properly?  The only LiveCD I've ever seen work on this Centrino was Kanotix, and I couldn't get my remaster to work.
[09:17] <mjg59> medwards_: Should work fine
[09:17] <mjg59> Kamion: Any chance for Hoary?
[09:17] <Kamion> mjg59: maybe, send me a spec :)
[09:17] <medwards_> Same "couldn't find ipw2100-fw-1.3" error I got with Warty.
[09:17] <mdz> flawless!
[09:18] <ogra> wow
[09:18] <mdz> both STR and swsusp, very impressive
[09:18] <Kamion> thom: could you do torrents for array-7 once they arrive on torrent.u.c? should be a few minutes from now
[09:18] <medwards_> (and with Knoppix 3.8)
[09:18] <medwards_> mjg59: thanks.
[09:18] <mdz> thom: we really do need to automate the remainder of that; we ought to be torrenting the dailies at this point
[09:19] <Kamion> mdz: I think a prereq for that is on my list, will look tomorrow
[09:19] <Kamion> anyway I really have to run now, massively late
[09:19] <pitti> yay, my home network is back *happy happy joy joy*
[09:19] <mjg59> Kamion: Based on a regexp that matches either the manufacturer or model, we need to be able to add a command line option
[09:19] <mjg59> I'll flesh it out and mail you
[09:19] <Kamion> thanks
[09:19] <mdz> thom: we'll need torrents for the kubuntu preview as well
[09:19] <medwards_> Kamion: thanks much.
[09:19] <mdz> lamont: terranova finished early building kubuntu livefs; please check
[09:20] <mjg59> fabbione: Ok, looks like we really could do with that patch that keybuk tried
[09:20] <mjg59> I've just nearly cooked a machine here
[09:20] <zul> heh
[09:21] <medwards_> mdz: swsusp with array-7?
[09:21] <robtaylor> lamont: no news on my issue, apart from that patch not fixing it.. guess i'm gonna have to go get my hands really dirty ;)
[09:21] <mdz> medwards_: an installed system upgraded from woody to the equivalent of array-7, yes
[09:21] <thom> mdz: as kamion says, we need to have the smaller pool
[09:22] <thom> mjg59: #7480
[09:22] <thom> mdz: when is kubuntu preview?
[09:22] <mdz> as real functionality it'd be purely academic, but it could be useful for testing whether it works
[09:22] <mdz> thom: today or tomorrow
[09:23] <thom> ah, k
[09:23] <mdz> depending on how these CDs turn out
[09:23] <mdz> elmo: around?
[09:23] <mdz> anyone else have an account on terranova besides lamont and elmo?
[09:23] <lamont> mdz: you managed to collide with an archive update
[09:23] <lamont> re-launched
[09:23] <mdz> ah, ok
[09:24] <mjg59> thom: Interesting. I honestly don't see how that can happen.
[09:24] <medwards_> lamont: if you were thinking of releasing the live cloop build script, I'd like to play with it.  Maybe even try unionfs if I can get the module to build against the Ubuntu kernel (the miniroot changes from Knoppix 3.8 are pretty straightforward).
[09:24] <mdz> lamont: are the royal and king ones screwed, then?
[09:24] <mdz> lamont: if they are, please kill them and I'll restart
[09:24] <lamont> mdz: the Release and Packages files, as fetched, were not from the same archive run.
[09:24] <mjg59> thom: As far as I can tell, network modules really should be loaded and unloaded in the same order
[09:25] <mdz> lamont: we need kdepim 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu3
[09:25] <mjg59> I guess that it's reasonable to record the mac/name mapping beforehand and set it up again afterwards, though
[09:25] <lamont> mdz: checking
[09:25] <mjg59> thom: Did you check gdm-signal?
[09:25] <mdz> thom: can you stick around tonight until we know whether kubuntu preview is happening?
[09:25] <pitti> mdz: but where is the sense of putting hibernate on the live CDs and not on the install ones?
[09:26] <lamont> mdz: 0ubuntu3 is being used in all 3 builds now
[09:26] <pitti> mdz: at least, I only ever saw "hibernate computer" on live CDs
[09:26] <mdz> pitti: we need the root filesystem in order to resume
[09:26] <thom> mjg59: this is what i thought, but I don't see the harm in doing an ifrename just to make sure, since we have iftab anyway...
[09:26] <doko> ok to uploade OOo1 now, or should I wait until after the Kubuntu preview?
[09:26] <mjg59> thom: Oh, we have iftab? If so, then yeah
[09:26] <mdz> mjg59: we write an iftab from d-i
[09:26] <lamont> medwards_: gotta dot an i or two before I can release it.
[09:26] <mjg59> Sure. Just ifrename it on resume, then.
[09:26] <thom> mdz: i need to go out but it'll be local (friends over from the states until monday, prolly won't see em otherwise); sms me if you need me?
[09:27] <thom> mjg59: yeah
[09:27] <kent> seb128, installing that package right now. I will let you know soon if it works or not.
[09:27] <thom> mjg59: not yet (gdm-signal)
[09:27] <lamont> but as for what it does, it literally just does a debootstrap and a couple of apt-get's, then rsync's the result into an fsimage (rather than using loopfs for the install...), then compresses it.
[09:27] <lamont> and a couple other housekeeping things
[09:27] <mdz> thom: it's more likely than not that we'll need you; can someone else fill in?
[09:27] <mjg59> thom: Ok. It's kind of important for machines without acpi sleep keys
[09:27] <mdz> elmo isn't around
[09:27] <mdz> lamont: thanks
[09:27] <lamont> mdz: 2 minutes until I must run for ~2 hours.
[09:28] <mdz> lamont: if builds are in progress with kdepim -0ubuntu3 I am happy
[09:28] <lamont> yep.
[09:28] <thom> mjg59: nod
[09:28] <lamont> mdz: and not 100% trivial, but <machine>/~buildd/livecd/kubuntu/latest/*.out is the log file of the latest run
[09:28] <medwards_> lamont: OK.  Is the package selection in the apt-gets, or are there virtual packages containing the important dependencies?
[09:28] <thom> mdz: unsure, but local means 5 minutes walk from my pc
[09:29] <lamont> s/latest/current/ for the last successful run
[09:29] <medwards_> lamont: and thanks very much!
[09:29] <mdz> thom: ok
[09:29] <mdz> thom: "out" :-)
[09:29] <lamont>         ubuntu)
[09:29] <lamont>             LIST="$LIST ubuntu-base ubuntu-desktop ubuntu-live"
[09:29] <lamont>     LIST="$LIST xresprobe laptop-detect"
[09:29] <lamont>     case $(dpkg --print-architecture) in
[09:29] <lamont>         amd64)          LIST="$LIST linux-amd64-generic";;
[09:29] <lamont>         i386)           LIST="$LIST linux-386";;
[09:29] <lamont> ...
[09:29] <thom> mdz: very close pub :-)
[09:29] <medwards_> (I presume ubuntu's debootstrap has the hoary base script.)
[09:30] <thom> very close _irish_ pub, more importantly
[09:30] <lamont> and some diversions to get things in the way out of the wya
[09:30] <lamont> medwards_: certainly
[09:30] <medwards_> lamont: excellent.  Thanks again.
[09:30] <lamont> it's basically ubuntu-meta*, xresprobe, laptop-detect, and kernel
[09:31] <lamont> mdz: can be online in about 1:40 or so, if you sms me...
[09:31] <lamont> but hopefully no need.
[09:32] <mdz> lamont-away: how can I check when the builds are done?
[09:33] <lamont-away> wget machine/~buildd/livecd/kubuntu/latest and there should be more than one file in the list?
[09:33] <lamont-away> if too long, and still just one file, wget that (.out), and see what went wrong.
[09:33] <mdz> ok, thanks
[09:35] <lamont-away> ubuntu is about 35 minutes
[09:35] <Seveas> hi
[09:35] <Seveas> is anybody going to change the ubuntu website, so that it mentions 'breezy badger' as being the next release?
[09:35] <lamont-away> mdz: and the last (good) kubuntu build to 27 min
[09:38] <medwards_> OK, time to dissect array-7 and see what lives outside the cloop.  Is there a sources.list entry that will give me an archive snapshot as of array-7?
[09:42] <elmo> mdz: I am around btw
[09:47] <mdz> elmo: ok
[09:48] <mdz> lamont reappeared
[09:48] <medwards_> elmo: Is there a sources.list entry that will give me an archive snapshot as of array-7?  Or is there another way to see a frozen archive when experimenting with the LiveCD mastering process?
[09:48] <thom> mdz: array 7 checking, should be on torrent in a few minutes
[09:48] <tseng> medwards_: the freeze isnt enforced by software afaik
[09:49] <tseng> medwards_: its a understanding followed by the developers to just not add things to main while the cds are in progress
[09:49] <elmo> medwards_: no, sorry
[09:49] <mdz> medwards_: not apart from setting up a local mirror
[09:49] <mdz> medwards_: (which is how we do the CD builds)
[09:50] <mdz> the current archive is quite sane, though, and should remain so for the remainder of the release cycle
[09:51] <medwards_> tseng, elmo, mdz: thanks.  I'll go with the moving target, and if I have trouble, I'll mirror locally.
[09:51] <mdz> medwards_: if you're doing more than one build, you definitely want at least a cache, and probably a local mirror, anyway
[09:52] <mdz> main for 1 architecture isn't all that large
[09:52] <medwards_> mdz: of course I'll cache; save us both bandwidth.  :)
[09:54] <medwards_> I'm getting about 8KB/s on the array-7 download; maybe I should just wait for the torrent?
[09:56] <Mithrandir> elmo: could you please sync root-portal?
[09:56] <dholbach> Mithrandir: yes!!! :-)
[09:56] <elmo> [NOT Updating - Modified]  root-portal_0.5.0-3ubuntu1 (vs 0.5.2-1)
[09:56] <elmo> ok to override?
[09:57] <zul> later 
[09:57] <dholbach> bye zul
[09:58] <Mithrandir> elmo: yes, ok to override
[09:58] <dholbach> Mithrandir: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseHowlRebuildTODO nearly sorted out :-)
[09:59] <thom> elmo: did you see my sync request for lsof?
[09:59] <Mithrandir> elmo: thanks.
[10:00] <elmo> thom: yes, but the version you requested's now in limbo - I'll sync it when it hits a mirror
[10:01] <thom> okey
[10:01] <thom> thanks mate
[10:02] <ogra> yeah, already 20 hwdb submissions :)
[10:02] <dholbach> ogra: hang on... you'll have mine too in just a sec ;-)
[10:02] <ogra> heh
[10:02] <kent> jdub, it seems to not crash with that version from CVS. I started gthumb a while ago and it has had the slideshow on for some time now and it has not crashed. Though i have it on random, but it has always crashed rather quickly, so i think its ok now.
[10:03] <seb128> kent: speaking about the new package ?
[10:03] <seb128> kent: or that's a different issue you are fixing with jdub ?
[10:04] <ogra> Mithrandir, dont you get mails from buzilla ?
[10:05] <kent> seb128, i meen the issue with gthumb and watchin slideshows. You posted a link to a debian package from CVS. I installed it and it seems to work now.
[10:05] <ogra> +g
[10:05] <dholbach> Mithrandir: RSS-ification!
[10:05] <seb128> kent: ok, because you spoke to jdub, so I prefer to ask :)
[10:05] <Mithrandir> ogra: stuff which I haven't gotten originally.
[10:05] <ogra> ah, k
[10:05] <Mithrandir> ogra: (I'm going to sit on a train and then a bus for a bunch of hours.  Would be nice if I could do useful stuff while doing that.)
[10:05] <kent> seb128, oh.. sorry, i wrote to the wrong person then. haha, i forgot it was you i should have spoken to. haha :) sorry
[10:05] <seb128> np
[10:06] <seb128> now I need to find the fix in the diff :/
[10:06] <HiddenWolf> Does anyone know what can possibly cause that ever ...ok notice during startup/shutdon is on a newline?
[10:06] <ogra> Mithrandir, so pull down some bugs in advance
[10:06] <HiddenWolf> every, even
[10:06] <ogra> Mithrandir (i.e. save th BZ page or wget it)
[10:08] <Mithrandir> yeah, that kinda works
[10:08] <thom> mdz: bt torrenting away
[10:08] <mdz> thom: thanks
[10:10] <medwards_> thom: bt link?
[10:11] <medwards_> (will seed in US)
[10:12] <mdz> medwards_: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hoary/array-7/
[10:14] <doko> mdz: ok to uploade OOo1 now, or should I wait until after the Kubuntu preview?
[10:14] <Mithrandir> doko: the 2.6 avm stuff freezes a lot.
[10:14] <mdz> doko: if you can wait one hour, that would be good
[10:14] <Mithrandir> doko: like, twice a day.
[10:15] <doko> Mithrandir: does the card has it's own interrupt?
[10:16] <Mithrandir>  12:      64399          XT-PIC  fcdslsl
[10:16] <Mithrandir> looks like it
[10:16] <doko> mdz: not sure, if I'm awake then. the packages are at chinstrap:~doko/uploads . would you mind uploading them?
[10:16] <mdz> doko: ok
[10:17] <mdz> doko: signed?
[10:17] <Mithrandir> doko: it _might_ be something else; kinda hard to check when I don't have a console connected to the system.
[10:17] <doko> Mithrandir: strange, I didn't havve these problems, after the card had it's own interupt.
[10:17] <doko> mdz: yes, signed. thanks
[10:17] <Mithrandir> doko: but since I've had that kill the system with 2.4 as well, I'm suspecting the fcdslsl card
[10:17] <Mithrandir> doko: hmm.
[10:18] <doko> mvo has another card (dsl2), maybe he can send it to you
[10:18] <Mithrandir> I could possibly try with a better mobo with a real APIC instead of the XT-PIC shit.
[10:18] <Mithrandir> it's just annoying, it's not a problem per se, I just wondered if I was the only one seeing this.
[10:18] <Mithrandir> I can spend a bit more time trying to see if I can reproduce it or get a backtrace.
[10:19] <seb128> kent: I'm uploading -0ubuntu2 with some fixes from the CVS version. Can you close the bugzilla bug if it fixes the crasher ?
[10:22] <kent> seb128, I have never closed a bug, but ok.. If it works, I will look on bugzilla about how to close the bug.
[10:23] <thom> woah, code.google.com
[10:24] <Mithrandir> thom: shiny
[10:24] <ogra> thom, oh they grabbed that one too ? there is a free site offering code snippet search since two years...
[10:24] <thom> ogra: no, go look
[10:25] <ogra> ah
[10:29] <thom> right, i'm -> pub; sms if/when you need me
[10:29] <kent> On bugzille it is written that bugreports against universe should be posted to ubuntu-users, is that correct? should not ubuntu-devel be the right place?
[10:30] <jdub> uuuggghhh
[10:30] <thom> kent: the message is correct
[10:31] <kent> seb128, btw, I forgot,  did you say you will make a new package for me to try? I was in the middle of doing some things and I accidently shut down xchat :(
[10:32] <seb128> kent: I've uploaded a new one for hoary, just let me know if this one work
[10:33] <seb128> you will need to downgrade from the current cvs one
[10:34] <kent> seb128, ok. Will do. 
[10:34] <seb128> thanks
[10:36] <kent> seb128, gthumb 2.6.3-1ubuntu1  ?
[10:37] <seb128> no, ubuntu2
[10:37] <seb128> it's probably building atm
[10:38] <kent> seb128, ok. I should be going to bed soon. How long does it take for it to compile?
[10:38] <seb128> kent: there is no hurry you can try tomorrow
[10:38] <seb128> not long, should be in the archive in 20min
[10:39] <kent> seb128, I'l rather wait for it then. Becaus im going home to my parents tomorrow after school so I wont have the time then.
[10:40] <seb128> k
[10:47] <smurfix> Grumble -- pitti's netboot image for powerpc didn't.
[10:59] <ogra> oh,  1111111111 is near !
[10:59] <ogra> (date +%s)
[11:01] <dholbach> ogra: do we need a  wiki/UniverseDate1111111111CleanupTODO  or something?
[11:01] <jdub> the status is: 1111096906
[11:02] <ogra> in case you got gtk-perl installed:
[11:02] <ogra> !/usr/bin/perl
[11:02] <ogra> use strict;
[11:02] <ogra> use Gtk2 -init;
[11:02] <ogra> use Glib qw(TRUE FALSE);
[11:02] <ogra> my $window = Gtk2::Window->new;
[11:02] <ogra> $window->signal_connect(delete_event => sub { Gtk2->main_quit; });
[11:02] <ogra> my $label = Gtk2::Label->new('' . time());
[11:02] <ogra> my $font = Gtk2::Pango::FontDescription->from_string("Sans Bold 48");
[11:02] <ogra> $label->modify_font($font);
[11:03] <ogra> Glib::Timeout->add(250, sub { $label->set_text('' . time()); TRUE; });
[11:03] <ogra> $window->add($label);
[11:03] <ogra> $window->show_all;
[11:03] <ogra> Gtk2->main;
[11:03] <seb128> urg
[11:03] <seb128> beeeurg
[11:03] <smurfix> dholbach: Count me out, 111* is in the middle of the night here
[11:03] <ogra> heh
[11:03] <seb128> WTF is that
[11:03] <smurfix> ogra: This is Ubuntu. Use Python.  ;-)
[11:04] <ogra> smurfix, :) i will for 2222222222 
[11:04] <seb128> jdub: desktop files for g-a-i ?
[11:04] <dholbach> ogra: have it running :-)
[11:05] <jdub> seb128: aye!
[11:05] <seb128> rock
[11:06] <dholbach> smurfix: should be middle of the night here too :-)
[11:06] <mvo> seb128: can I upload gnomemeeting without the libpt-plugins-v4l dependency? it breaks updates from warty (#7419)
[11:07] <seb128> mvo: sure
[11:08] <ogra> smurfix, btw, who should convert all the p*rl stuff if everybody only wants to touch py ?
[11:08] <ogra> :)
[11:08] <seb128> ogra: no need to read perl code to write py one :)
[11:09] <ogra> hmm
[11:09] <maswan> mmmm.. perl. :)
[11:09] <medwards_> maswan: crunchy perl goodness.
[11:11] <maswan> medwards_: exactly. :)
[11:11] <smurfix> ogra: 2222222222 is >2^31. We'll have to do quite a bit of work if we don't want anything to break with *that*.
[11:11] <ogra> *g*
[11:12] <kent> seb128, this is the moment of truth..  im trying the slideshow now with the new version. Hopefully it will work.. 
[11:13] <seb128> k
[11:19] <kent> seb128, it seems to work for me with that version from the archive. Should I set it to fixed in bugzilla? There is no "closed" option, just the "reslove bug, changing resolution to [fixed] "
[11:19] <kent> seb128, I wrote in the wrong channel first, haha :)
[11:19] <seb128> fixed is fine, thanks
[11:19] <seb128> I've replied in the other one :p
[11:21] <medwards_> lamont: just posted an (untested) fix for 4504 (cupsys upgrade failures).  Does anyone know how to reproduce it?
[11:22] <medwards_> (fix should probably be applied in debian package also; haven't picked a bug to attach it to)
[11:39] <mdz> jdub: cursor theme fix?
[11:41] <jdub> mdz: i've got the ubuntu-artwork end; you reassigned the previous package repair side to seb, didn't you?
[11:41] <mdz> jdub: uploaded?
[11:41] <jdub> no
[11:41] <mdz> I didn't see it go up
[11:42] <mdz> is seb128 going to have time to do that tonight?
[11:42] <jdub> i have an icon drop to go up with it;
[11:42] <mdz> I asked him to help you with it
[11:42] <jdub> however, despite my earlier elation, i have to prepare for a meeting this afternoon
[11:43] <jdub> if seb can't do the other end tonight his time, i'll do it tonight my time
[11:43] <seb128> mdz: when you say tonight, that's now (it's midnight here) or tomorrow ?
[11:44] <mdz> seb128: now
[11:44] <seb128> k, I'll have a look and will get back to the other stuff after
[11:45] <jdub> seb128: gtk2-engines-industrial just needs to kill off the alternative that wasn't killed off properly during upgrade
[11:45] <mdz> and some testing
[11:45] <seb128> ok
[11:45] <jdub> i'll upload u-a this afternoon, post-meeting
[11:46] <seb128> you fix this one ?
[11:46] <seb128> I just need to remove the broken alternative in gtk2-engines-industrial ?
[11:46] <jdub> yeha
[11:46] <jdub> u-a is ok, just needs some updates and an upload
[11:49] <mdke> hi guys. I just got an email from a guy who says this "I'm preparing an article for Newsforge about OpenOffice.org version 2.0's increased use of Java and how third-party redistributors are approaching the change." He wants a statement from ubuntu. Who can I forward this misdirected mail to?
[11:50] <medwards_>  Does Java on Ubuntu get much testing?  It looks like java-package is from multiverse and kaffe and ecj are from universe.
[11:50] <mdke> i just wanna know who has authority to answer this email
[11:50] <mdke> the answer is pretty obviously not me
[11:51] <ogra> medwards_, which shouldnt make it less tested then main apps ;)
[11:51] <mdke> hi ogra
[11:51] <ogra> hi mdke 
[11:51] <mdke> :)
[11:51] <medwards_> ogra: actually, I was writing that question before mdke came in.
[11:51] <mdke> heh coincidence
[11:52] <ogra> there is a JavaIntegration wiki page, jabiley leads the java team afaik
[11:52] <ogra> oops, jbailey indeed
[11:52] <medwards_> I'm really excited about java-in-main, especially since my day job is java-intensive and it's going to be up to me to convert them to free JDK.
[11:53] <mdke> ogra, you have any recommendations? shall i just forward it to ubuntu-devel?
[11:53] <jbailey> ogra: Heya!
[11:53] <medwards_> The pretext is support for ARM and MIPS(el) embedded targets.
[11:53] <ogra> mdke, jep, that would be the right place i guess
[11:53] <mdke> ogra, ok
[11:53] <mdke> hi jbailey perhaps you could advise me too
[11:54] <jbailey> medwards_: It's getting better.  ecj and gij are going to go into main for Breesy.  We're trying to get a bunch of the packages in shape in prep for that.
[11:54] <jbailey> JerryHaltom has been doing amazing work on that front.
[11:55] <jbailey> medwards_: Have you looked much at free java stuff yet?
[11:56] <jbailey> mdke: Oy, a statement from Ubuntu?
[11:56] <mdke> apparently
[11:56] <mdke> must be a journalist
[11:56] <jbailey> mdke: Probably the best bet for that would be Chris Halls.  He knows OOo the best.
[11:56] <mdke> true
[11:57] <mdke> he'll follow the dev list i guess?
[11:57] <jbailey> haggai: *poke* =)
[11:57] <mdke> actually i'll ccopy him in
[11:57] <jbailey> Let's see if he's around. =)
[11:57] <ogra> mdke, yep, and he is very busy currently,, thats why i didnt point you dirctly towards him
[11:57] <mdke> np
[11:58] <mdke> i bet you're all pretty busy :)
[11:58] <ogra> three weeks to go :)
[11:58] <mdke> yep
[11:58] <mvo> less than two for the preview ...
[11:58] <ogra> yep
[11:58] <mdke> you'll get there
[11:59] <medwards_> jbailey: yes, I've been tracking java-in-main with much interest.
[11:59] <jbailey> medwards_: Cool.  If you're interested in helping out, many of us (for both Debian and Ubuntu) are in #ubuntu-java
[12:00] <medwards_> jbailey: OK, I'll show up there as soon as my immediate crisis (building a LiveCD with working JDK/ANT) is over.
[12:02] <medwards_> jbailey: I'm trying to reduce my autobuilders to a LiveCD so that I can do scorched-earth rebuilds of the Apache suite with alternate JDKs.
[12:03] <lamont> mdz: 4504 - still trying to actually reproduce it here..
[12:03] <jbailey> medwards_: autobuilders?
[12:03] <jbailey> medwards_: Do you run the gump tests?
[12:03] <mdz> lamont: it's not going to be easy to reproduce; we just need to cripple that broken code
[12:03] <haggai> jbailey: hey leave me to idle on this channel in peace :)
[12:03] <jbailey> haggai: Yes, dear.
[12:03] <medwards_> lamont: candidate fix in bugzilla.
[12:03] <mdz> lamont: it should never abort the postinst
[12:04] <lamont> medwards_: yeah, reading it now
[12:04] <lamont> mdz: right... I'll get something uploaded today.  gonna try to reproduce it again though, too...
[12:04] <medwards_> jbailey: actually, autobuilders for day job (steaming-pile-of-java network management app)