[01:06] <zul> echo echo
[03:23] <zul> its usually quiet tonight
[03:24] <crimsun> yes, it is usually quiet ;-)
[03:24] <zul> er...UNusually
[03:33] <jbailey> Most of the usual culprits are testing the array stuff.  I'm completing an install so that I can test md stuff.
[03:33] <crimsun> I'm tackling a weird usb sound issues and trying to push through the rest of the Python 2.4 transition
[03:33] <crimsun> issue, rather
[03:34] <zul> what sound issue?
[03:34] <crimsun> a disconnect issue that was fixed in -28 via the alsa patch
[03:50] <zul> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KernelBazNotes
[03:52] <crimsun> register-archive, no?
[03:52] <crimsun> (updated)
[03:52] <zul> oh crap...i think i should go to beed soon
[03:52] <zul> yes..bed..
[04:01] <zul> hmmm...lets see what rhel 4 have
[04:13] <zul> later
[06:06] <fabbione> morning
[06:58] <lamont> morning fabbione 
[06:59] <fabbione> hey lamont
[07:54] <svenl> fabbione: ARG.
[07:54] <fabbione> svenl: ?
[07:55] <svenl> fabbione: i forgot to remove the non-powerpc configs yesterday, and it has not finished building :/
[07:55] <fabbione> ah ok
[07:55] <svenl> (its at power4-smp though)
[07:55] <svenl> fabbione: did you get my email ?
[07:55] <fabbione> don't worry.. i am already building on our buildd
[07:55] <fabbione> yes i did
[07:55] <svenl> fabbione: with my patch ?
[07:55] <svenl> patches even ? 
[07:55] <fabbione> i am buildining only the driver patches
[07:55] <fabbione> not the initrd thingy
[07:55] <svenl> fabbione: why not both ? 
[07:56] <fabbione> because i need to test one thing at a time :-)
[07:56] <fabbione> and see if one of them break
[07:56] <fabbione> it makes it easier for me
[07:56] <svenl> fabbione: bah.
[07:56] <fabbione> svenl: i will add it immediatly after this build cycle
[07:56] <fabbione> it's not an upload
[07:57] <fabbione> + everything is ccached
[07:57] <fabbione> it takes only 30 minutes or so to build *
[07:57] <fabbione> i promised to look at both of them
[07:57] <fabbione> and i am doing it
[07:57] <fabbione> so i don't see what the problem is
[07:57] <svenl> fabbione: they are two different things, the driver thingy will build you the modules, while the mkinitrd support thingy will copy stuff into the kernel-image.
[07:57] <svenl> i want a build box like yours :)
[07:58] <fabbione> i know they are 2 different things. but since we have a policy to do atomic commits
[07:58] <fabbione> i test A and commit A
[07:58] <svenl> fabbione: ok.
[07:58] <fabbione> i add B -> test B -> commit B
[07:58] <fabbione> it is seriously 100 times easier for me
[07:59] <fabbione> svenl: that box is nothing special.. the ccache i have is
[07:59] <svenl> ok then, you have a fast box anyway.
[07:59] <svenl> you have a fast ccache ? 
[07:59] <fabbione> well i have a fast disk with the ccache already full
[07:59] <fabbione> so it becomes fast
[08:00] <fabbione> processor       : 0
[08:00] <fabbione> cpu             : PPC970FX, altivec supported
[08:00] <fabbione> clock           : 2000MHz
[08:00] <fabbione> + 2GB of ram
[08:00] <fabbione> and 500 or more GB of disk
[08:03] <svenl> fabbione: well, trick has 8GB of ramand who knows how much disk space.
[08:04] <svenl> fabbione: saddly we can't use it for upload-related development.
[08:04] <fabbione> why not?
[08:05] <svenl> we have not full control over the box, so we cannot use it to build packages to upload.
[08:05] <fabbione> i see...
[08:05] <fabbione> suckage
[08:05] <svenl> as soon as i have time, i will use it to do ppc64 kernels though.
[08:06] <svenl> and hopefully i will get a virtual cpu on it someday.
[08:06] <fabbione> you will need a libc6-64 and gcc-64 first
[08:06] <fabbione> doko is working on those afaik
[08:06] <svenl> waldi already compiled a biarch toolchain two days ago.
[08:06] <fabbione> i know doko had them for a while
[08:07] <fabbione> not sure where tho
[08:07] <fabbione> but i am sure they have been working together on it
[08:07] <svenl> fabbione: just the compiler, but with suse headers.
[08:07] <svenl> ok need to go, see you.
[08:07] <fabbione> cya
[08:17] <svenl> fabbione: i wonder if it is possible to share a ccache cache setup with a chroot ? 
[08:21] <fabbione> yes it is
[08:21] <fabbione> just use a dedicated partition that you mount under .ccache
[08:21] <fabbione> and share it between chroots
[08:21] <fabbione> it's up to you where you mount it
[08:21] <fabbione> you have the env var to define it
[08:22] <fabbione> just remember that you need to have the same UID under both the chroots
[08:38] <fabbione>   Changes by Sven Luther:
[08:38] <fabbione>   * Fix mv643xx driver for powerpc:
[08:38] <fabbione>     - Add patches powerpc-mv643xx-enet.dpatch and powerpc-mv643xx-eth-pegasos.dpatch.
[08:38] <fabbione>     - Obsolete patch marvell-pegasos-2.dpatch.
[08:42] <fabbione> svenl: testing the initrd thingy...
[08:42] <fabbione> how can i verify that it actually did something?
[09:11] <svenl> fabbione: do you have a /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.10-powerpc ? 
[09:11] <fabbione> svenl: i will in a short time..
[09:11] <fabbione> it's building with the mkwhatever patch
[09:27] <svenl> fabbione: what version of mkvmlkinuz do you have ?
[09:31] <fabbione> the one you have sent to me via email
[09:50] <svenl> fabbione: the mkvmlinuz package, not the patch ? 
[09:51] <fabbione> no idea....
[09:51] <fabbione> let me check
[09:52] <fabbione> 12
[09:52] <fabbione> but it is not installed
[09:52] <fabbione> is it required as build-dep?
[09:59] <svenl> can you get mkvmlinuz 13 instead ? 
[09:59] <svenl> altough not sure, it is more cosmetic.
[09:59] <fabbione> no
[09:59] <fabbione> we are in UVF
[09:59] <fabbione> and that package is in main
[09:59] <svenl> mkvmlinuz 13 installs a postinst hook which asks the user.
[09:59] <svenl> fabbione: ok.
[10:00] <svenl> no problem, you don't really need mkvmlinuz, and it is just dead code right now.
[10:00] <fabbione> ok
[10:01] <svenl> but make sure you mention this to me post-release as there will be some things to check, which may not be identic in debian and in ubuntu.
[10:01] <svenl> version 13, it asks for a debconf variable, if you want to use mkvmlinuz to create the vmlinuz kernel, nothing more.
[10:01] <svenl> (and adds support for 2.4 kernel, but you don't care about this).
[10:02] <fabbione> svenl: after a release, a script is executed to sync * from unstable
[10:02] <fabbione> so we will see what is in unstable after hoary
[10:03] <svenl> fabbione: version 13 is in testing. 
[10:10] <svenl> fabbione: when will you have the package for me to test ? 
[10:14] <fabbione> svenl: it doesn't matter if it is in testing or not
[10:14] <fabbione> we are too close to release to get a new upstream version
[10:14] <fabbione> and i am quite busy right now....
[10:14] <fabbione> i will let you know when they are ready
[10:16] <svenl> fabbione: i said it is in testing, so we will have at least that in unstable after hoary.
[10:17] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/ppc-diff
[10:17] <fabbione> this is the output of debdiff
[10:17] <fabbione> first deb is the old
[10:17] <fabbione> second deb is the patched one
[10:17] <svenl> Mmm.
[10:18] <svenl> the script removes the .coff.
[10:18] <fabbione> i don't like the fact that the /boot/vmlinux.coff-2.6.10-5-powerpc has been removed
[10:18] <svenl> I am not sure you want that, but i seriously doubt you are interested in the .coff.
[10:18] <fabbione> and it installs in kernel-image
[10:18] <fabbione> while it whould be linux-image
[10:18] <svenl> yep, but this is only because kernel-package is years outdated.
[10:18] <fabbione> uh?
[10:19] <svenl> fabbione: you can generate the .coff with mkvmlinuz if you really want.
[10:19] <svenl> fabbione: the .coff is something that predates both quik and yaboot.
[10:19] <svenl> fabbione: nobody uses it anymore.
[10:19] <fabbione> svenl: well i am not going to break ppc. we can remove it AFTER hoary
[10:19] <svenl> and like said, you can spare yourself the 1-2MB * 6 of space, since mkvmlinuz allows you to generate it.
[10:20] <svenl> fabbione: please ask Kamion first, but you can comment out one line in postinst-install.powerpc to keep it.
[10:20] <svenl> fabbione: but seriously, the .coff thingy is for a kernel which can be booted on oldworld pmacs through the serial console.
[10:20] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/
[10:20] <fabbione> the images are there
[10:20] <svenl> fabbione: do you really envision a ubuntu/powerpc user doing that ? 
[10:20] <fabbione> svenl: listen.. i don't need to know all the history of ppc
[10:20] <fabbione> and i don't really care
[10:21] <fabbione> right now i have 2 problems:
[10:21] <fabbione> 1) do not break the kernel
[10:21] <svenl> fabbione: ok, fine with you, just uncoment the line, ok ? 
[10:21] <fabbione> 2) fix major bug fixes
[10:21] <fabbione> svenl: please just update the patch and send it to me
[10:21] <svenl> fabbione: it is just cruft because kenrel-package was never updates since ages.
[10:21] <fabbione> oh perfect
[10:21] <fabbione> ops
[10:21] <svenl> fabbione: come on. 
[10:21] <fabbione> ECHAN
[10:21] <fabbione> that was for Jane
[10:22] <svenl> edit postinst-install.powerpc, and put a # before the line which says rm .... .coff.
[10:22] <svenl> fabbione: do you really want a patch from me ? 
[10:23] <fabbione> ok done
[10:23] <fabbione> and changed the thing to linux-
[10:23] <svenl> fabbione: that said, mdz mentioned space problems on the powerpc isos, so i would check before removing this.
[10:24] <svenl> it may well be worth it to save almost 10MB of archive space, not sure.
[10:24] <svenl> but then you can always uncoment the line later on.
[10:25] <fabbione> Victor Ferns <victor.ferns@standardbank.com> <- right?
[10:25] <fabbione> AMEN
[10:25] <fabbione> i am too busy now...
[10:25] <svenl> fabbione: mmm, come to think of it, there is no chance of the .coff kernel being usefull, since it doesn't include the initrd,.
[10:25] <fabbione> i need to do one thing at a time...
[10:25] <svenl> fabbione: ok.
[10:25] <svenl> fabbione: no problem.
[10:25] <svenl> fabbione: do you want me to mention this to Kamion/mdz and ask them if it is worthwhile ? 
[10:25] <fabbione> yes please
[10:26] <fabbione> i am not the ppc porter
[10:26] <svenl> Ok, will do.
[10:26] <svenl> hehe.
[10:26] <fabbione> i need people to work on it
[10:26] <fabbione> without me
[10:26] <svenl> post-hoary i may take over that job for kernel stuff maybe.
[10:42] <svenl> fabbione: ok, installed the kernel and rebooting, i generated the mkvmlinuz kernel, will try to boot it directly.
[10:43] <svenl> fabbione: rebooted kernel worked.
[10:43] <svenl> mmm, i think we didn't enable the config option for the marvell gigabit ethernet driver :/
[10:44] <fabbione> yes we did
[10:44] <fabbione> the driver is there
[10:45] <fabbione> or did they changed again?
[10:45] <svenl> fabbione: well, i think it doesn't get autoloaded by hotplug.
[10:45] <svenl> mmm.
[10:46] <fabbione> that is something that was fixed in the marvel-pegagos2.dpatch
[10:46] <svenl> fabbione: ah, will look at the patch, this means we need an additional patching step.
[10:50] <svenl> you sure ? I just looked at the marvel-pegasos2 dpatch from .27, and there is nothing in there relative to hotplug ? 
[10:51] <fabbione> no i am not sure
[10:53] <svenl> fabbione: can i access the kernel's changes list or something ? 
[10:53] <fabbione> svenl: there is no kernel changes list
[10:53] <fabbione> we have 2 ml
[10:53] <fabbione> kernel-team and kernel-bugs
[10:54] <svenl> fabbione: the one from the revision system repo (arch i think).
[10:54] <fabbione> the latter collects all the stuff from the bug reports
[10:54] <fabbione> there is none...
[10:54] <fabbione> we don't have a ml with changes
[10:54] <fabbione> there is only the repo
[10:54] <fabbione> at the URL in /topic
[10:54] <svenl> fabbione: i mean the arch equivalent to svn log.
[10:55] <fabbione> svenl: yes. you can access it doing a baz get of the archive in /topic
[10:55] <svenl> baz ?
[10:56] <fabbione> or tla
[10:56] <fabbione> doesn't matter
[10:56] <svenl> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/Archives/kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/ this one ? 
[10:56] <fabbione> yes. register THAT archive
[10:56] <fabbione> and get the branch pre29 in topic
[11:07] <svenl> mmm, need a crash course in tla :/
[11:13] <svenl> damn, all that and the module doesn't seem to work as it should :/
[11:14] <svenl> fabbione: no need to do an upload, i need to fix it first, and get the hotplug stuff worked out.
[11:14] <fabbione> i am not going to upload until it is fixed
[11:14] <svenl> ok.
[11:15] <svenl> this will need more backport work, will not do this until this evening or tomorrow.
[11:15] <svenl> fabbione: what tla command do you use to do the checkout ? 
[11:16] <fabbione> did you register the archive first?
[11:16] <svenl> fabbione: i never used tla.
[11:17] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-kernel-2005-03-15.html
[11:17] <fabbione> svenl: read there what lamont told to zul
[11:18] <fabbione> you should be able to do s/baz/tla/
[11:24] <svenl> fabbione: thanks.
[11:24] <svenl> fabbione: i am baffled, the driver works fine on 2.6.11, but fails in 2.6.10, need to look in details.
[11:28] <svenl> mmm, didn't work 
[11:28] <svenl>  tla make-archive tla-archive/luther@debian.org--2005
[11:29] <svenl> usage: tla make-archive [options]  [name]  location
[11:29] <svenl> i am baffled.
[11:29] <svenl> later though, need to go now.
[11:29] <fabbione> svenl: just look at tla register-archive and tla get
[11:29] <fabbione> you don't need to create your own archive
[11:29] <fabbione> otherwise install bazaar
[11:29] <fabbione> and make your life simpler
[11:30] <svenl> $ tla register-archive http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/Archives/kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005
[11:30] <svenl> arch_archive_connect: attempt to connect to incompatible archive
[11:30] <fabbione> than you need baz
[11:30] <svenl> oh well, will try again later.
[11:30] <svenl> baz is in ubuntu/hoary, right ?
[11:30] <fabbione> yes afaik it is also in debian
[11:30] <svenl> E: Couldn't find package baz
[11:30] <fabbione> package bazaar
[11:30] <svenl> no it doesn't seem to be.
[11:30] <svenl> oh, ok.
[12:58] <fabbione> svenl: can you give me the changelog entry so i can commit the changes?
[12:59] <svenl> fabbione: added support files for mkvmlinuz
[12:59] <svenl> or do you want something more formal or more complete ? 
[12:59] <svenl> maybe "mkvmlinuz support files added" even.
[01:00] <svenl> or mkvmlinuz support files added (Sven Luther) 
[01:00] <svenl> don't know what the policy is.
[01:00] <fabbione> +  * Add support files for mkvmlinuz.
[01:00] <fabbione> same as X
[01:00] <fabbione> imperative form
[01:00] <fabbione> or whatever is called
[01:01] <svenl> Ok.
[01:01] <svenl> what about attribution ?
[01:01] <fabbione> you are already credited :-)
[01:01] <fabbione> dude....
[01:01] <svenl> ok, cool.
[01:01] <fabbione> i am NOT a PUNKASS!
[01:01] <svenl> just curious.
[01:01] <fabbione>   Changes by Sven Luther:
[01:01] <fabbione>   * Fix mv643xx driver for powerpc:
[01:01] <fabbione>     - Add patches powerpc-mv643xx-enet.dpatch and powerpc-mv643xx-eth-pegasos.dpatch.
[01:01] <fabbione>     - Obsolete patch marvell-pegasos-2.dpatch.
[01:01] <fabbione>   * Add support files for mkvmlinuz.
[01:01] <fabbione> + some spaces that IRC cuts away
[01:02] <svenl> hehe.
[01:02] <fabbione> i do always respect credits
[01:02] <fabbione> if i miss one it's for a mistake
[01:02] <svenl> quite verboser than the debian changelog format, but hey.
[01:02] <fabbione> i am paranoid on changelog
[01:03] <svenl> well, the debian kernel changelog adopted the other form, because Jens vetoed the above (or rather d-i) format
[01:04] <svenl> claimed it did loose ordering of changes.
[01:05] <fabbione> that's because he has no clue on how to use a RCS
[01:05] <svenl> fabbione: bah, he is inactive now anyway.
[01:06] <fabbione> if you know how to use an RCS properly, there is no need to preserve the order of changes in the changelog
[01:06] <svenl> fabbione: provided all users who are interested need to know how to handle said RCS properly and have access too.
[01:06] <svenl> fabbione: i did the baz registering, how is the baz get done ? 
[01:07] <fabbione> baz get kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/kernel-debian--pre29--2.6.10 debian
[01:07] <fabbione> it will get the archive for the debian/ dir
[01:07] <fabbione> since it's the only one under rcs
[01:08] <svenl> thanks, altough i doubt the hotplug patch was ever included, i think.
[01:09] <fabbione> afaik adding hotplug support is very simple
[01:09] <fabbione> you need a table and one export of a function
[01:09] <fabbione> pretty simple
[01:09] <fabbione> just check how other drivers do that
[01:09] <svenl> yep.
[01:10] <svenl> fabbione: but the mv643xx_eth driver is not a pci driver, so ...
[01:10] <svenl> fabbione: how do i check the log or changeset of a file in baz ? 
[01:10] <fabbione> baz help
[01:11] <fabbione>                  logs : list patch logs for a version in a project tree
[01:11] <fabbione> baz logs --summary
[01:12] <fabbione> for the short logs
[01:17] <svenl> WARNING: no rule found for checking signatures from kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005
[01:17] <svenl>   Consider creating ~/.arch-params/signing/kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005.check
[01:17] <svenl>   or ~/.arch-params/signing/=default.check
[01:17] <svenl> PANIC: Unhandled arguments. Did you forget to use -r or -d?
[01:17] <svenl> its not helpfull, and baz help seems pretty useless to me :/
[01:18] <svenl> mmm, 
[01:19] <fabbione> svenl: hold on.. you need to files to allow gpg checking of each commit
[01:20] <fabbione> cat ~/.arch-params/signing/\=\=default.check
[01:20] <fabbione> gpg --verify-files -
[01:21] <fabbione> cat ~/.arch-params/signing/kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005
[01:21] <fabbione> gpg --default-key 63549F8E --clearsign
[01:21] <fabbione> of course you need to change the keyid
[01:21] <fabbione> but you don't have commit access on our repo
[01:22] <fabbione> so it's kinda pointless
[01:22] <svenl> yep.
[01:22] <svenl> let's forget it.
[01:22] <svenl> for now.
[01:30] <svenl> about hotplug, do you have a hint of the name of the structure or whatever ?
[01:30] <fabbione> svenl: just check any other driver
[01:30] <fabbione> it's a table with the pci ids
[01:30] <fabbione> almost impossible to miss
[01:34] <svenl> something like this : 
[01:34] <svenl> static struct pci_device_id rhine_pci_tbl[]  =
[01:34] <svenl> {
[01:34] <svenl>         {0x1106, 0x3043, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, }, /* VT86C100A */
[01:34] <svenl>         {0x1106, 0x3065, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, }, /* VT6102 */
[01:34] <svenl>         {0x1106, 0x3106, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, }, /* 6105{,L,LOM} */
[01:34] <svenl>         {0x1106, 0x3053, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, }, /* VT6105M */
[01:34] <svenl>         { }     /* terminate list */
[01:34] <fabbione> yes
[01:34] <svenl> };
[01:34] <fabbione> that is correct
[01:34] <svenl> i have such a one for doing a pci_dev_present thingy.
[01:34] <fabbione> and there is an export of that table
[01:35] <svenl> so the hotplug is either : 
[01:35] <svenl> MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE(pci, rhine_pci_tbl);
[01:35] <fabbione> if you grep for rhine_pci_tbl
[01:35] <svenl> or : 
[01:35] <svenl> static struct pci_driver rhine_driver = {
[01:35] <svenl>         .name           = DRV_NAME,
[01:35] <svenl>         .id_table       = rhine_pci_tbl,
[01:35] <svenl>         .probe          = rhine_init_one,
[01:35] <svenl>         .remove         = __devexit_p(rhine_remove_one),
[01:35] <svenl> #ifdef CONFIG_PM
[01:35] <fabbione> yeah  exactly
[01:35] <svenl>         .suspend        = rhine_suspend,
[01:35] <svenl>         .resume         = rhine_resume,
[01:35] <svenl> #endif /* CONFIG_PM */
[01:35] <svenl>         .driver = {
[01:35] <fabbione> it depends how is the driver
[01:35] <svenl>                 .shutdown = rhine_shutdown,
[01:35] <svenl>         }
[01:36] <svenl> };
[01:36] <svenl> thanks will investigate.
[01:36] <fabbione> i know both ways work
[01:36] <svenl> fabbione: its a none-pci-driver :/
[01:36] <fabbione> well.. i have no idea of non pci driver
[01:36] <svenl> but will ask around, i even know the guy to ask.
[01:36] <fabbione> check how it is done in other non-pci drivers
[01:36] <svenl> but he is in awake-at-midnight timezone
[01:38] <svenl> Mmm, i think it is more complicated because the driver is no pci driver, but i will investigate.
[02:10] <mjg59> svenl: What sort of driver is it?
[02:11] <mjg59> The .id_table field is used by the kernel at driver load time - it goes through every device in the system, and calls .probe against each device that matches the contents of the table
[02:11] <mjg59> MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE is used to export the information at build time
[02:11] <svenl> mjg59: the pegasos marvell northbridge gigabit ethernet driver. It is outside of the pci bus.
[02:11] <svenl> mjg59: the driver works, but i need to get hotplug to automatically load it.
[02:11] <mjg59> Right. What sort of driver does it declare itself as being?
[02:12] <mjg59> (As in, what's the type of the struct that contains the .probe and .remove functions)
[02:15] <mjg59> svenl: Which driver is this? mv643xx?
[02:16] <mjg59> If so, it doesn't seem to use the new driver model. There's no way to get it loaded via hotplug.
[02:17] <svenl> mv643xx_eth
[02:18] <mjg59> Yeah. It looks like you're out of luck.
[02:18] <svenl> mjg59: huh ? 
[02:18] <svenl> mjg59: well, we can adapt it, where can i find good info on the hotplug infrastructure ? 
[02:19] <mjg59> Documentation/driver-model/
[02:20] <svenl> ok, thanks.
[02:26] <zul> hey
[02:50] <lamont> morning
[02:51] <zul> hey lamont how is it gonig?
[02:51] <fabbione> morning lamont
[02:51] <zul> hey fabbione 
[02:52] <fabbione> hi zul
[02:54] <fabbione> we can be funny here.. right?
[02:54] <zul> of course
[02:54] <zul> most of us have a sense of humor except for lamont
[02:54] <zul> and maybe jbailey
[02:55] <jbailey> zul: I have no sense of humor.  I'm Canadian.
[02:55] <jbailey> zul: We have a sense of 'humour'.
[02:56] <zul> jbailey: well excuse me i went to an american high school
[02:56] <zul> fabbione: lol
[02:58] <lamont> ENOTROUT
[02:59] <jbailey> It's all I have to offer, sorry.
[02:59] <lamont> zul: my sense of humor is merely misunderstood. :-)
[02:59] <lamont> jbailey: yum
[02:59] <jbailey> You can carve it to look like a trout.
[03:00] <zul> heh
[03:06] <zul> hey guys do you want to dump the 2.5 stuff in universe?
[03:06] <zul> er...2.4
[03:07] <fabbione> http://www.getoffmynuts.com/gallery/images/chefno.jpg
[03:07] <fabbione> aahah that looks so much like me
[03:07] <jbailey> zul: It's probably a good idea.  I know that the initrd-tools stuff that I've done hasn't been tested against 2.4 at all
[03:07] <jbailey> fabbione: OooOooOoo!
[03:07] <zul> heh its dom delouise
[03:07] <jbailey> That could be the "Kernel Strike Force" page to go against the XSF one. =)
[03:08] <fabbione> jbailey: i am kinda part of both.. you know?
[03:08] <fabbione> but we can do something funny
[03:08] <jbailey> fabbione: Yes, well, we forgive you. =)
[03:08] <dholbach> hi
[03:08] <zul> dholbach: im thinking dump the 2.4 stuff since its not really supported afiak
[03:09] <dholbach> zul: don't let fabbione hear that :-)
[03:09] <dholbach> zul: i had the whole lot on wiki/MorgueCandidates already, when he stopped me :-)
[03:09] <zul> ah..
[03:09] <zul> fabbione: wanna comment?
[03:09] <dholbach> we're talking about the "kernel" section on wiki/UniverseUnmetDeps
[03:10] <fabbione> zul: yes. we need to have at least one version of 2.4 around in universe
[03:10] <fabbione> supported or not
[03:10] <zul> k
[03:10] <fabbione> because there are some admin that are pretty conservative
[03:10] <fabbione> or cannot upgrade a kernel to 2.6
[03:10] <fabbione> (like me)
[03:10] <dholbach> but we could chuck out stuff like kernel-patch-2.4.26-m68k
[03:11] <jbailey> fabbione: They'll probably see errors on their screen with the initrd-tools changes if they downgrade from a new install.
[03:11] <fabbione> dholbach: you kidding right?
[03:11] <fabbione> dholbach: i am porting ubuntu to m68k
[03:11] <fabbione> !
[03:11] <fabbione> jbailey: i am more concerned about people upgrading from woody
[03:11] <fabbione> dholbach: just kidding.. kill it
[03:12] <jbailey> fabbione: I think that case will still behave sanely.  I haven't tested it, though.
[03:12] <dholbach> but we need to fix the linux-2.4-meta packages
[03:12] <jbailey> But the suspend-to-disk stuff only should kick in if someone sets it intentionally, or does a clean install.
[03:12] <dholbach> apt-cache -i unmet | grep kernel   should be empty :-)
[03:14] <dholbach> i don't want to meddle in any kernel packages :-)
[03:14] <dholbach> even not meta ones
[03:21] <fabbione> dholbach: we simply cannot commit to maintain 2.4 too
[03:21] <fabbione> that's MOTU stuff
[03:21] <fabbione> but we did never remove 2.4 from universe for that reason
[03:22] <fabbione> if MOTU's are absolutely sure that it is ok to kill 2.4, than just go ahead
[03:22] <dholbach> i'm not suggesting chucking stuff out
[03:22] <dholbach> but the linux-meta packages should be sorted out
[03:22] <dholbach> -2.4 that is
[03:22] <fabbione> there is no linux-meta for 2.4
[03:22] <fabbione> and there is no need to have one
[03:23] <dholbach> that's all the list is saying 
[03:23] <dholbach> what are all those   version 100   then?
[03:24] <fabbione> the version 100 afaik are meta packages coming from DEbian
[03:24] <fabbione> that have the same meaning as our linux-meta
[03:24] <fabbione> but
[03:24] <fabbione> they are not packages we did
[03:24] <fabbione> so i am sure you can clean these ones
[03:25] <dholbach> what about the *-2.6-* ones?
[03:25] <fabbione> it's the same
[03:25] <fabbione> debian uses kernel-*
[03:25] <fabbione> we use linux-*
[03:25] <dholbach> ok, so if you have no objections, i'll re-add them to the list and talk to elmo at some stage
[03:25] <dholbach> cool
[03:25] <dholbach> thanks :-)
[03:26] <fabbione> it's your decision
[03:26] <dholbach> removal of uninstallable meta packages shouldnt hurt, right? :-)
[03:27] <fabbione> it shouldn't
[03:27] <fabbione> given that they don't break other packages
[03:27] <dholbach> i'd prefer if someone of the kernel-team would verify ;-)
[03:28] <lamont> meta package doesn't actually deliver anything, other than dependencies to pull in other packages..
[03:28] <lamont> that it's uniinstallable may be an issue, but removing it shouldn't hurt
[03:33] <fabbione> ahah i found the best picture for badger :-)
[03:33] <fabbione> http://www.getoffmynuts.com/gallery/images/aznraccoonstick.jpg
[03:33] <lamont> fabbione: that's a racoon
[03:33] <lamont> != badger
[03:33] <fabbione> hmm they looked pretty much the same
[03:33] <lamont> but they taste completely different
[03:34] <zul> fabbione: racoon are more evil then badgers
[03:34] <zul> they go through your garbage
[03:34] <lamont> and about half as big as a badger, too
[03:34] <fabbione> ok got that
[03:34] <lamont> so they fit in the garbage can better... :-)
[03:35] <lamont> should we get mark to do 'randy racoon' next?
[03:35] <fabbione> hahha better not suggesting it :-)
[03:35] <fabbione> some pics on that site are amazing
[03:35] <fabbione> http://www.getoffmynuts.com/gallery/images/appleadcrackborrow20.jpg
[03:35] <fabbione> there PPC users!
[03:39] <lamont> fabbione: that'd be better than 'raunchy racoon'
[03:39] <fabbione> ehheh
[03:42] <dholbach> bbl
[05:22] <Mithrandir> hm, should I whine about stuff to go into d-i kernel packages here or just to Kamion?
[05:23] <zul> Kamion
[05:50] <fabbione> here
[05:50] <fabbione> we do create the udebs
[05:50] <fabbione> Mithrandir: what do you need exactly?
[05:52] <Mithrandir> fabbione: 7800; the i2o modules.
[05:52] <Mithrandir> i2o_block.ko  i2o_config.ko  i2o_core.ko  i2o_proc.ko  i2o_scsi.ko
[05:53] <fabbione> on what arches?
[05:53] <fabbione> something like an i2o-udebs
[05:53] <fabbione> but what should pull it in?
[05:53] <Mithrandir> amd64
[05:53] <Mithrandir> it could just go in the scsi-modules udeb?
[05:54] <fabbione> is it used only by scsi hw?
[05:55] <Mithrandir> TTBOMK, yes
[05:56] <fabbione> TTBOMK"FHHIDJAWI ????
[05:56] <Mithrandir> to the best of my knowledge
[05:56] <Mithrandir> it's an abstraction layer which providers can write their hardware to conform to.
[05:56] <fabbione> ok :-)
[05:56] <Mithrandir> makes it easier to write drivers
[05:56] <fabbione> yes i know the description, but i didn't know if there were actually drivers using it
[05:57] <fabbione> the 7800 is the scsi drivers that uses it, right?
[05:57] <Mithrandir> 7800 is the bug #
[05:57] <Mithrandir> :P
[05:57] <fabbione> ahhh
[05:57] <Mithrandir> some Adaptec stuff uses it
[05:58] <Mithrandir> 0000:02:07.0 RAID bus controller: Adaptec (formerly DPT) SmartRAID V Controller (rev 01)
[05:58] <Mithrandir> so we might want the dpt_i2o in there as well
[05:58] <Mithrandir> hmm, the dpt_i2o is i386 only, though
[05:58] <fabbione> hmmm ok
[05:59] <fabbione> to do it clean we need a new kernel-wedge
[05:59] <fabbione> + some investigation on the depends of the modules
[05:59] <fabbione> what module is the one used for the controller?
[06:01] <Mithrandir> typically, the i2o_block gives you access to the block devices (that is, RAIDs or JBODs the controller sees)
[06:01] <Mithrandir> the i2o_scsi is the scsi interface, I think
[06:01] <fabbione> hmmmm
[06:01] <Mithrandir> config is for running configuration tools
[06:02] <fabbione> is it critical to get it in for hoary?
[06:02] <fabbione> it will need me a bit of investigation on how to merge the overall crack
[06:02] <fabbione> or talk with Kamion on what's the best way
[06:02] <Mithrandir> it would be _very_ nice to have for hoary, yes.
[06:02] <fabbione> ok
[06:02] <Mithrandir> it's a PITA to install without it
[06:02] <fabbione> yup. i understand
[06:03] <Mithrandir> it's in the kernel, it's just missing from d-i
[06:03] <fabbione> yes..
[06:03] <fabbione> we need to get a proper udeb out
[06:04] <fabbione> and since this is scsi stuff
[06:04] <fabbione> the scsi-modules needs to Depend on it
[06:04] <fabbione> but if in one month from now, a new keyboard will use that stuff
[06:04] <fabbione> we will not need to split the hell
[06:04] <fabbione> it will be already there
[06:04] <fabbione> i just want to be sure which modules (per arch) needs to go where
[06:05] <fabbione> and this is Kamion "the d-i allmighty" decision ;)
[06:06] <Mithrandir> I doubt you'll ever have an i2o keyboard. :P
[06:06] <fabbione> you get my point :P
[06:06] <fabbione> but yes it is doable
[06:07] <Mithrandir> cool, I'll see what kamion says to the bug
[06:07] <Mithrandir> but now I should be packing
[06:08] <fabbione> are you flying tomorrow?
[06:10] <Mithrandir> train tonight, then drop off a bit of baggage in Oslo then bus to Copenhagen tomorrow mid-day
[06:12] <fabbione> cool!
[06:12] <fabbione> Mithrandir: you have my phone numbers.. anything you need, you just call me
[06:13] <Mithrandir> sure
[06:13] <Mithrandir> :)
[06:13] <fabbione> (other than my money!)
[06:13] <fabbione> (but you can have my wife as souvenir from dk)
[06:13] <Mithrandir> has she turned evil already?
[06:13] <fabbione> she did even before
[06:13] <fabbione> but i can say "WIFE"
[06:13] <fabbione> ehehhe
[06:13] <Mithrandir> I'm looking forward to meet her
[06:13] <Mithrandir> I'm sure she rocks.
[06:13] <Mithrandir> just like you
[06:14] <fabbione> eheheh
[06:14] <fabbione> she is not a nerd tho
[06:14] <fabbione> and she doesn't like computer talking
[06:14] <fabbione> talk to her about flowers and traveling :)
[06:16] <Mithrandir> I
[06:16] <Mithrandir> I'll just make Karianne talk to her and she'll be a geek in no time.
[06:16] <Mithrandir> :)
[06:17] <fabbione> AHAHHA
[06:17] <fabbione> good plan!
[06:17] <fabbione> i think i will take Ulla with me at the next conf in EU
[06:17] <Mithrandir> bring her to Debconf?
[06:18] <fabbione> i am not sure i will be there
[06:18] <Mithrandir> ok :(
[06:18] <Mithrandir> I'm actually considering bringing my mother(!).  She's a social antrophologist and interested in free software and geeks and such
[06:18] <fabbione> ahaha
[06:18] <fabbione> that would rock so hard!
[07:02] <zul> heh..mama's boy :)
[07:40] <lamont> well, it didn't work.  those wimps at earthlink are no help.
[07:41] <lamont> my issue is that there are free pair in the T^*&)^)*_() path all the way to my house... I just want one.  Qwest doesn't want to free it up....
[07:54] <zul> frig...its like im doing cobol all over again
[07:54] <zul> pure hell
[08:05] <fabbione> lamont: just steal it :-)
[08:06] <lamont> fabbione: unfortunately, that would require learning about DSL hookup methods, hacking their switch, and hacking the CO computer... while fun, it would not go unnoticed, and those last 2 are federal offenses...
[08:06] <zul> its better than ioaw
[08:07] <zul> iowa
[08:07] <fabbione> or alaska
[08:07] <lamont> alaska would be nice - as long as they have DSL. :-)
[08:07] <zul> or *shock* tenesse
[08:07] <lamont> and leavenworth doesn't have DSL
[08:07] <lamont> at least not in the inmate areas.
[08:11] <fabbione> lamont: did you ever consider upgrading the wireless link and get somehow uncapped?
[08:13] <lamont> fabbione: for a mere $600 + $70/mo, I can have 500kbps over satellite.
[08:13] <lamont> fat, but _VERY_ long pipe.
[08:13] <zul> what is the upload like?
[08:13] <lamont> probably bidirectional these days - at least 128kbps
[08:13] <lamont> now, for $349/mo + tarriffs (== ~$1000/mo), I can have a T1.
[08:14] <lamont> and for about that much a month, I can get another house in DSL land... :-)
[08:14] <fabbione> that's too expensive
[08:14] <fabbione> i was talking about the wireless link you have now
[08:15] <lamont> ah, that just involves getting the co-op to change rate plans yet again on my behalf...
[08:15] <fabbione> + latency only kills irc...
[08:15] <lamont> (the most recent change benefits pretty much _me_
[08:15] <lamont> and no one else
[08:16] <fabbione> but you are still bounded to traffic or speed limit
[08:17] <fabbione> i can't believe i cannot make flumotion to work with my webcam
[08:17] <fabbione> and jdub keeps ignoring that....
[08:17] <lamont> fabbione: and will be so long as I'm using the co-op
[08:18] <lamont> fabbione: I could have ~400kbps 24x7 if I was willing to pay for it...
[08:18] <lamont> but the surcharges _HURT_ 
[08:18] <fabbione> yeah i can imagine
[08:18] <fabbione> or get all your boxes colocated
[08:18] <lamont> they're structured to make it cheaper to get the T1 if you're a steady-state heavy user
[08:18] <fabbione> and use only the laptop as ws
[08:18] <zul> ill take that ppp bug - 7763
[08:19] <fabbione> lamont: have you consider splitting the T1 with the neibourgh?
[08:19] <lamont> pb is that i need to get the bits to test with, so I'd need to co-lo my office, and we're still talking ~$1000/mo
[08:19] <lamont> ENONTECHY
[08:19] <fabbione> yeah colo the entire office no...
[08:19] <fabbione> zul: ok...
[08:20] <lamont> actually, I co-lo'ed a 1U box down at my buddy's
[08:20] <zul> see im cordinating :)
[08:20] <lamont> so I can go hit his driveway and do a fast-fetch of everything I'm missing
[08:20] <fabbione> eheh
[08:20] <lamont> zul: that is like, so _ON_ topic. :-)
[08:20] <fabbione> zul: i don't use ppp at all...
[08:20] <fabbione> so you can take also pppoe and mppe
[08:20] <lamont> I use it when forced
[08:20] <zul> neither do i but if debian includes it well do the same
[08:21] <fabbione> lamont: last thing i tried was ppp over ssh
[08:21] <fabbione> than i stopped
[08:21] <lamont> gag
[08:21] <zul> last time i used ppp was 3 years ago
[08:21] <lamont> fabbione: btw, ipv6 iptables connection tracking... any word on that?
[08:21] <fabbione> it was easier to put a machine with 2 eth at work than to go via the corporate firewall
[08:22] <fabbione> lamont: right.... now we are kernel maintainers...
[08:22] <fabbione> see 
[08:22] <fabbione> i totally forgot about it
[08:22] <fabbione> we are going to put it in for bendy
[08:22] <fabbione> since i maintain the kernel.. we can do the effort to merge it
[08:23] <lamont> once we have it, I'll deploy ipv6 here...
[08:23] <lamont> need it for the firewall.
[08:23] <fabbione> lamont: you will be surprise to know that you don't need that much firewalling on ipv6
[08:24] <lamont> fabbione: because no one is using it?
[08:24] <fabbione> no, because if you carefully configure the services, you don't need one
[08:24] <fabbione> not all services listen on IPv6
[08:24] <fabbione> and the few that do, is because you want them on ipv6
[08:24] <fabbione> like bind, apache2
[08:25] <fabbione> ssh
[08:25] <lamont> yeah, but I'm kinda strict on the firewall rules...
[08:25] <fabbione> sure..
[08:25] <fabbione> there were some limitations when i tested a year ago
[08:25] <lamont> it's not even there in our 2.6.10 :)  severely limits things... :)
[08:26] <fabbione> you know.. i got so frigging busy that i really forgot about it
[08:26] <lamont> it's OK.  I'll just pester you each day at UDU about it. :-)
[08:26] <fabbione> no need to 
[08:26] <lamont> LOL
[08:26] <fabbione> i will merge the day after hoary is out
[08:26] <zul> heh...you guys are going to have too much fun at udu
[08:27] <fabbione> and upload for bendy
[08:27] <Mithrandir> breezy
[08:27] <Mithrandir> no, windy
[08:27] <Mithrandir> wasn't it?
[08:27] <fabbione> yeah breezy
[08:27] <Mithrandir> breezy badger
[08:28] <Mithrandir> crazy name, imho
[08:28] <Mithrandir> :)
[08:28] <fabbione> wife i want bendy!
[08:28] <fabbione> s/wife//
[08:28] <fabbione> no.. i do NOT want my wife to bend(y)
[08:28] <fabbione> not yet at least :P
[08:28] <Mithrandir> TMI!
[08:29] <lamont> fabbione: -28 has the abi stuff, not 27, right>?
[08:29] <fabbione> lamont: correct
[08:30] <fabbione> time to get offline
[08:30] <fabbione> wife is back
[08:30] <zul> c ya
[08:30] <fabbione> cya
[08:31] <lamont> later
[08:54] <zul> im going to a movie tonight with my wife so im not sure if im going to be online or not
[09:12] <zul> next week i think
[09:13] <zul> or not..
[09:57] <zul> later