[12:10] <marcin_ant> ogra: btw what about this http://home.tiscali.cz:8080/~cz210552/aptrsync.html ?
[12:14] <mvo> marcin_ant: for this particular problem (package list updates), please see http://bugs.debian.org/128818
[12:19] <medwards_> mdz: device-mapper documentation is, er, sketchy.  :(
[12:20] <mdz> medwards_: yeah.  I  know a few people who are helpful though
[12:20] <medwards_> I RTFS to understand the "p" in snapshot create.
[12:20] <mdz> medwards_: kevin corry of the EVMS project has answered many questions for me
[12:23] <medwards_> argh, and argh some more.  I zeroed the entire /dev/sda1, and I still get "Invalid/corrupt snapshot".
[12:28] <mirak> if I do a dd /dev/hda of a full 40G hard drive on a 120G hard drive, will I be able to resize the latest partition, or will the system believe it's still a 40G hard drive ?
[12:28] <lifeless> you'll be able to resize it
[12:29] <lifeless> but you'd be better off copying the partition with parted anyway
[12:49] <medwards_> I swear to Murgatroyd, I had this working!
[12:52] <Amaranth> seb128: are you sure gnome-menus will take an entry from ~/.locals/share/applications and show it over an entry with the same name from /usr/share/applications ?
[12:53] <seb128> put a desktop file here and run the pyxdg example, you'll see
[12:53] <Amaranth> I've got everything else working perfectly but you still have to run as root to edit root entries because it shows the root one over the user one in the menus
[12:53] <seb128> hum
[12:53] <Amaranth> i have testingthis.desktop in both places with a different Comment line and both my app (using python-xdg) and the gnome menus themselves show the root one
[12:54] <seb128> oh, you have the same in both
[12:54] <Amaranth> yeah, i thought you said that would work
[12:54] <Amaranth> otherwise i'll still need root to edit root entries
[12:54] <seb128> that does if you handle it right
[12:55] <seb128> no
[12:55] <seb128> read the spec
[12:55] <seb128> a sec
[12:56] <Amaranth> err
[12:56] <Amaranth> what part of the spec tells how to make this work?
[12:56] <seb128> http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-0.9.html
[12:56] <seb128> D. Implementation notes
[12:56] <seb128> Menu editing
[12:56] <seb128> " To implement menu editing, the intent is that a per-user file is created. The per-user file should specify a <MergeFile> with the system wide file, so that system changes are inherited. When the user deletes a menu item, you add <Exclude><Filename>foo.desktop</Filename></Exclude>. If the user adds a menu item, you use <Include><Filename>foo.desktop</Filename></Include>"
[12:56] <seb128> " If the user moves a folder, you might try to use <Move> elements to represent that, but it's tricky. (Move A/B/C to D/E/F, then move D/E to D/G, note that D/E/F still contains A/B/C while only the original D/E was moved to D/G.) In order to move a folder, you have to "fix up" all moves that move things into the folder being moved to instead move things into the folder's new location."
[12:57] <seb128> 
[12:57] <seb128> that
[12:57] <Amaranth> oh, i need to create user versions applications files?
[12:58] <seb128> right
[12:58] <Amaranth> hrm
[12:58] <seb128> you need to have the .menu files for your user
[12:58] <seb128> that merge the system one
[12:58] <seb128> and to use these ones
[12:58] <seb128> so you can do the changes
[01:00] <Amaranth> now to figure out how to generate .menu files...
[01:02] <Amaranth> oh, Menu.addDeskEntry() might be it
[01:04] <seb128> nice
[01:04] <seb128> BTW thanks for the work on the menu editor, some users will be happy
[01:05] <Amaranth> yeah, i've gotten some nice replies on the ubuntu forums
[01:05] <seb128> some beeing an inderterminate number, but that's a frequent request on the mailing lists 
[01:05] <thom> mdz: yo
[01:08] <lamont_r> mdz: defoma cluster uploaded
[01:09] <lamont_r> seb128: we have a menu editor!!!!!????!!? woo woo!!!
[01:09] <seb128> lamont_r: somebody is working on a menu editor rather
[01:09] <lamont_r> ah, ok
[01:18] <Amaranth> lamont_r: the old version works, it just doesn't quite follow the spec
[01:19] <Amaranth> well, it does enough to work, just not enough to allow non-root editting of root entries
[01:20] <Amaranth> i think Menu.addDeskEntry() is what i need to work with in python-xdg but when i give it my entry it tries to access entry.Name which doesn't exist
[01:21] <Mitario> good night everyone
[01:22] <thom> g'night folks
[01:22] <Amaranth> night
[01:22] <ogra> night thom 
[01:29] <medwards_> blood.  y.  hell.
[01:29] <medwards_> mdz: zeroing it worked.
[01:30] <medwards_> mdz: left a gratuitous mkfs in between zeroing and dmsetup.
[01:33] <doko> good night or good morning, as you like it ;)
[01:33] <medwards_> Is there a boot parameter I can use to modprobe ext3 before casper runs?
[01:33] <ogra> night doko
[01:33] <mvo> night doko
[01:34] <dholbach> good night mvo
[01:34] <ogra> night mvo
[01:35] <mvo> ciao dholbach, ogra 
[01:40] <medwards_> oh, boo.  "Failed to initialize HAL".
[01:42] <medwards_> "hald timed out on ep0in"???
[01:44] <medwards_> hmm, looks like I need to blacklist the USB stick from hotplug when casper's got hold of it.
[01:50] <dholbach> i'm off to bed... good night to you all
[01:52] <medwards_> thom: looks like you maintain hotplug for ubuntu; any thoughts on how to blacklist just the first USB stick from hotplug?
[01:59] <medwards_> thom: sorry, looks like a hal problem, not hotplug.
[02:08] <tsume> to explain why the newer nvidia module isn't in the archive?
[02:08] <tsume> *can anyone explain
[02:08] <Rocha> Good evening
[02:08] <rvalles> hi
[02:09] <Rocha> Will mono 1.1.4 be available for hoary?
[02:09] <zul> tsume: because we are close to release we are concentrating on stabilization
[02:09] <rvalles> I need to know how the gcc wrapper works in ubuntu
[02:09] <tsume> zul: after that will there be normal updates again?
[02:09] <rvalles> tried to find documentation on it, but no luck
[02:09] <zul> tsume: should be
[02:09] <rvalles> the thing is, I have gcc-3.4 installed
[02:09] <tsume> zul: I like current software, I don't like using outdated "crap"
[02:09] <rvalles> root@LeChuckK7:/ # kk
[02:09] <rvalles> bash: kk: command not found
[02:09] <rvalles> root@LeChuckK7:/ # gcc
[02:10] <rvalles> bash: /usr/bin/gcc: No existe el fichero o el directorio
[02:10] <medwards_> OK, it's fine as long as I wait until the isolinux prompt to insert the USB stick.
[02:10] <tsume> zul: thanks to the near up-to-date kernel, I was able to use my intel 2200BG card in my laptop
[02:10] <tsume> ipw2200 module :)
[02:10] <rvalles> notice the difference
[02:10] <Amaranth> Rocha: mono 1.1.x is unstable, it'll become 1.2 when it's ready for use
[02:10] <rvalles> so a wrapper is definitivelly there for gcc
[02:10] <rvalles> but... where is it?
[02:11] <Rocha> Amaranth, on the website they say that people should use 1.1.4 instead of 1.0.6
[02:11] <Amaranth> rvalles: gcc is a symlink
[02:11] <Amaranth> Rocha: That's odd...
[02:11] <Rocha> Amaranth, in the mono channel too
[02:11] <Rocha> (in gimpnet)
[02:11] <rvalles> Amaranth: where is that symlink?
[02:12] <Amaranth> /usr/bin/gcc
[02:12] <rvalles> Amaranth: /usr/bin/gcc doesn't exist.
[02:12] <zul> rvalles: that is an #ubuntu question
[02:12] <rvalles> Amaranth: yet, as you can see, the error I get by typing random crap (kk) is different
[02:12] <rvalles> Amaranth: than the one I get typing "gcc"
[02:12] <Amaranth> rvalles: have you installed the build-essential package?
[02:12] <rvalles> Amaranth: yes.
[02:12] <Rocha> do you use any graphical cvs tool to manage your files?
[02:12] <rvalles> Amaranth: I removed gcc-3.3 to try~ to force gcc to be gcc-3.4, tho
[02:13] <rvalles> Amaranth: also reinstalled gcc-3.4, no luck
[02:13] <Amaranth> *facepalm*
[02:13] <rvalles> zul: they pointed me here.
[02:13] <Amaranth> rvalles: move this to #ubuntu
[02:13] <Amaranth> it's definately not appropriate #ubuntu-devel discussion
[02:17] <medwards_> mdz: snapshot on USB stick works.  What shall I do with the setup script?
[02:17] <mdz> medwards_: nice, how many pieces is it in?
[02:18] <mdz> and where do they fit?
[02:19] <medwards_> All you have to do is run the script (hacked from 10snapshot) when booted from livecd/ramdisk and with USB stick inserted but not mounted.
[02:20] <medwards_> Then reboot, and enter "live casper-udeb/snapshot/cow-device=/dev/sda1" at the isolinux prompt.
[02:20] <medwards_> The freedesktop hal choked when my BIOS saw the stick during boot, so I just wait until the isolinux prompt to insert it.
[02:21] <medwards_> that's all there is to it.
[02:23] <medwards_> The script zeroes the first 10K of the partition, creates cow and snapshot devices, and runs e2fsck.  The tune2fs -j line is commented out pending a way to modprobe ext3 early enough.
[02:24] <medwards_> mdz: got that?
[02:26] <mdz> medwards_: reading now
[02:27] <mdz> 05load-modules loads ext2; it could as easy load ext3
[02:27] <tsume> questoin, are the development branches usually stable to use for a BSDer?
[02:28] <mdz> tsume: that's a subjective question; you should be able to get plenty of opinions in #ubuntu about it
[02:28] <mdz> medwards_: what was the root of the problem with hal/
[02:28] <mdz> ?
[02:28] <tsume> mdz: well does at least 75% work most of the time?
[02:28] <tsume> mdz: compared to debian -unstable
[02:28] <medwards_> BIOS probably does stupid things to enable USB mass storage boot.
[02:28] <tsume> mdz: I need up to date software, not outdated software
[02:28] <mdz> prior to freeze, we track Debian unstable closely
[02:29] <tsume> mdz: but are there conflicts which debian -unstable have?
[02:29] <mdz> medwards_: oh, you're booting from the stick and then also using it for COW?
[02:29] <medwards_> tsume: I've had very good experiences with debian unstable, but YMMV.
[02:29] <tsume> i.e. seems to take forever to be able to even download the software without missing deps with -unstable debian
[02:29] <medwards_> mdz: nope, but if it's inserted, the BIOS tries to give me the option.
[02:29] <tsume> YMMV?
[02:30] <mdz> tsume: our focus is on getting a high-quality release out every 6 months.  this means we don't stay on the bleeding edge all the time, certainly not toward the end of our release cycle
[02:30] <medwards_> tsume: your mileage may vary.
[02:33] <tsume> there aren't any assholes like cafuego in the ubuntu community are there?
[02:33] <zul> who?
[02:33] <ogra> what ?
[02:33] <tsume> zul: cafuego of #debian
[02:33] <tsume> just a very rude person who doesn't like helping anyone
[02:34] <zul> ah
[02:34] <tsume> he suffers from big penis syndrome ;)
[02:34] <medwards_> and for a stretch goal, how about AES encrypting the partition underneath the linear dm device, and asking the passphrase during 10snapshot.  :)
[02:35] <medwards_> mdz: given appropriate access, I would be happy to put this stuff up on the wiki.
[02:35] <ogra> tsume, ubuntu is known for its good helpful community that even tends to avoid such verbalisms like asshole...
[02:35] <tsume> ogra: just what I wanted to hear :)
[02:36] <mdz> medwards_: all you need for the wiki is to create an account; it's all open
[02:36] <ogra> i.e. we have a code of conduct that forces you to be helpful and nice ;)
[02:36] <tsume> ogra: debian lacks 'code of conduct'
[02:37] <tsume> ogra: I guess its one of the major pros to go for in a project :)
[02:37] <ogra> but has a "social contract" 
[02:37] <ogra> yep
[02:38] <tsume> there is a project for graphical linux boot, does anhyone know what it is?
[02:38] <tsume> for a picture during kernel load, etc
[02:38] <ogra> tsume, but we would also welcomecafuego if he would sign the CoC ;)
[02:39] <ogra> usplash
[02:39] <tsume> ogra: it would be difficult for people like cafuego to agree/act to such a contract
[02:39] <tsume> orusplash?
[02:39] <tsume> ogra: hmm I thought it was called bootsplash or something.
[02:39] <tsume> *something else.
[02:40] <lamont_r> bootsplash is something else
[02:40] <lamont_r> that's a heavy kernel mod, etc.
[02:40] <ogra> tsume, but if he would, and behave accordingly, he could even join :)
[02:40] <lamont_r> usplash is ubuntu's all-user-space splash during boot
[02:40] <lamont_r> that isn't in hoary
[02:40] <tsume> ogra: that type of acceptance and behavior would be exciting to see.
[02:41] <ogra> lamont_r, i think we'll have some proof of concept stuff in universe shortly after release, i talked to sladen at FOSDEM 
[02:41] <lamont_r> ogra: right
[02:41] <ogra> tsume, :)
[02:42] <zul> okies usb storage device list has been updated
[02:42] <ogra> tsume, ubuntu is always exciting ;)
[02:44] <zul> oh you are around lamont_r
[02:45] <lamont_r> doh. discovered.!
[02:46] <zul> bwahaha
[02:47] <tsume> are there any plans in getting bootsplash in the kernel?
[02:47] <zul> no
[02:47] <tsume> zul: any reason not to?
[02:47] <zul> yes we are looking at usplash
[02:48] <tsume> zul: can usplash show a progress bar?
[02:48] <ogra> tsume, we have something better: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/USplash
[02:48] <medwards_> mdz: under IdeaPool, or maybe BreezyGoalsThatTurnedOutToBeLowHangingFruit?
[02:48] <srbaker> has anyone here played with apple's rendezvous on ubuntu? 
[02:49] <srbaker> or any linux-based system, for that matter
[02:49] <zenwhen> Does Canonical support Kubuntu finaially?
[02:49] <ogra> tsume, usplash will support mng, you can animate what you want with it
[02:49] <zenwhen> financially*
[02:51] <tsume> almost firgor
[02:51] <tsume> oops
[02:51] <tsume> almost forgot, I've a small grub problem
[02:51] <tsume> it says GRUB at boot, so I had to install lilo
[02:51] <tsume> how can I load the CD and install grub the right way?
[02:51] <ogra> ?
[02:51] <tsume> GRUB
[02:51] <tsume> thats it
[02:52] <tsume> it freezes and the laptop doesn't boot.
[02:52] <mdz> medwards_: it's on UbuntuDownUnderBofs right now, but I haven't fleshed it out yet (and probably won't do so in that wiki)
[02:53] <srbaker> ogra, where do i find info on usplash?
[02:53] <ogra>  http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/USplash
[02:55] <srbaker> thanks
[02:55] <medwards_> mdz: will also be nice for poor-man's remastering, since an idle snapshot is a perfectly good cloop and can be rolled right up into a new ISO.
[03:27] <zul> heh i was able to reproduce those ata_piix problems on array 6
[03:31] <Amaranth> i give up, python-xdg hates me
[03:32] <Amaranth> people can just edit menu entries by hand :/
[03:33] <bluefoxicy> could somebody get me the source files for the users and groups applet?  I'm sure there's a mirror somewhere online, or I can apt-source it?
[03:34] <medwards_> mdz: first draft at https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LiveCDPersistence
[03:34] <medwards_> mdz: I know diddly about Plone markup, maybe someone could touch it up.
[03:35] <mdz> medwards_: thanks, will look at it soon
[03:35] <mdz> sometimes helpful souls trawl the wiki and fix up the markup ;-)
[03:36] <medwards_> mdz: I'll try to get around to the AES cryptoloop support once I've succeeded with a remastering cycle.
[03:37] <medwards_> mdz: is casper frozen, or can at least the ext3 modprobe go in?
[03:38] <Amaranth> arg, seb left
[03:38] <Amaranth> does anyone know anything about python-xdg?
[03:39] <Amaranth> beyond listing menu entries and saving .desktop files themselves it looks entirely worthless
[03:40] <jdub> mdz: permission to upload bugfix updates of libvorbis/libtheora that we probably should've had in warty (they're that old)?
[03:40] <medwards_> mdz: I don't really see any reason why there should be livecds without at least AES persistent homedir support anymore.
[03:40] <medwards_> mdz: thanks for casper, it's excellent.
[03:40] <jdub> mdz: i've tested them locally, no problems (and FC3 had them).
[03:40] <crimsun> Amaranth: and validation, which is just as important?
[03:41] <Amaranth> meh, i need to figure out how to merge user menus with the main ones
[03:41] <Amaranth> i would have thought they'd have a nice catchall setup for this
[03:46] <Amaranth> thank you redhat for the example file :)
[03:55] <Amaranth> i give up
[03:55] <Amaranth> this was intentionally made hard
[03:56] <infinity> mdz : regarding #7857, how do I best handle that, since I can't build libapache-mod-php4 without a build-dep on apache-dev (from universe), but the php4 source package is main (with binaries split across main/universe)
[04:13] <lamont> mdz about?
[04:27] <lamont> any amd64 owners around?
[04:40] <zul> night folks
[04:42] <mdz> jdub: if they're the new upstreams, then no, I'd rather not
[04:42] <mdz> medwards_: I'm not touching casper at the moment except for bugfixes, but feel free to keep your changes in an arch branch for now
[04:43] <mdz> medwards_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/archives/matt.zimmerman@canonical.com--2004/
[04:44] <mdz> infinity: either we split the source, or we don't support apache 1.3
[04:45] <infinity> mdz : Yeah, I just got advice from daniels to duplicate the source package, build all the main stuff from the main source, and the universe stuff from the universe source.  Ick.
[04:45] <infinity> mdz : But it seems resonably sane, except for the maintaining of two branches.
[04:45] <mdz> lamont: what do you need?
[04:47] <fgx> do you think ubuntu will have its own boot/install floppy in the future?is it a goal?
[04:48] <lamont> mdz: how does the fix suggested in #297543 sound?
[04:48] <mdz> lamont: you would know better than i would; I assumed it was at 18 for a reason
[04:50] <lamont> was 18 when I inherited it.
[04:50] <lamont> module-tools-init is all that is at 20...
[04:50] <lamont> I'll poke Md tomorrow and see what he thinks
[04:51] <lamont> pb is that I lack an amd64 box to test on.
[04:52] <jdub> mdz: they're well tested elsewhere, and will help with streaming stuff
[04:57] <mjg59> Somebody really needs to write a driver for that WMI stuff
[05:01] <jdub> http://distrowatch.com/stats.php?section=popularity
[05:03] <schweeb> jdub: NICE
[05:03] <jdub> pretty impressive
[05:08] <mjg59> That's quite astoundingly good
[05:08] <mjg59> What's the highest number they've managed before?
[05:12] <jdub> hrm
[05:12] <jdub> the historical high water mark forever?
[05:12] <jdub> dunno
[05:12] <jdub> might ask ladislav
[05:16] <infinity> mdz : So, do I have your okay to do that (re: duplicate main/universe source packages).  Does the archive deal with that sanely, or do I need to rename one to php4-universe or something?
[05:22] <elmo> uh
[05:22] <elmo> of course you can't duplicate the source with the same name
[05:23] <elmo> main/universe are just components; you wouldn't try and put a package in main _and_ non-free in Debian, right?  same deal
[05:27] <infinity> elmo : Check.  Wasn't sure how they were handled on the backend, as components of a dist, or as seperate dists, happening to release simultaneously.
[05:28] <infinity> elmo : So, to duplicate the source, I need a php4-universe source package, then.  Can do.  (Did I say "ick" yet?)
[05:31] <srbaker> hrm
[05:31] <srbaker> for some reason knoppix makes my sound work every time, and it wont' work in ubuntu :(  i think it has omething to do with OSS
[05:32] <schweeb> ubuntu uses ALSA... I believe knoppix does now too
[05:34] <elmo> infinity: well - supporting apache 1.3 for 18 months would be even more icky
[06:07] <sladen> medwards_: how much extra work would it be to have a loopback file on the USB/whatever device as the persisent home.  This strikes me that it'd work across USB/vfat/windows partitions much better
[06:09] <sladen> medwards_: my (limited) knowledge of DM tells me it should be possible to take the existing memory-backed snapshot and write that to device/file retrospectively.  Avoiding the need to reboot and pass in a cow device
[06:14] <infinity> Hrm.  If initscripts (which is priority: required) depends on lsb-base, is it really sane to change every package which provides an init script to ALSO depend on lsb-base?
[06:14] <elmo> infinity: partial upgrades?
[06:15] <infinity> From pre-warty?
[06:15] <elmo> or Debian?
[06:15] <infinity> initscripts has depended on lsb-base since before warty released.
[06:16] <infinity> Meh.
[06:16] <infinity> Fair nuff.
[06:33] <lamont> mdz: what severity do you want the hoary-test/ia64 build failures at?  normal? or critical?
[06:34] <elmo> infinity: don't take that as authoritative, I'm just guessing
[06:36] <infinity> elmo : Well, it makes sense.  I just wish it didn't. ;)
[08:24] <bob2> I like how scrollkeeper hangs on install if you don't have network access
[08:49] <froud> Mitario: ping
[09:21] <Mithrandir> elmo: could you please sync db3?
[09:23] <elmo> done
[09:25] <Mithrandir> thanks a lot
[09:29] <tritium> elmo, I sent requests to keyring and upload last Sunday.  Should I be all set?
[09:41] <dholbach> goood morning!
[09:42] <lunitik> Please can *someone* kick 'you' in #ubuntu?
[09:42] <dholbach> daniels: thanks for dbus-mono - i'll take care of the uploads once it's in the archive
[10:16] <daniels> dholbach: thanks a lot mate
[10:17] <daniels> dholbach: afaict, it's just tomboy and muine that needed uploading
[10:17] <dholbach> daniels: my pleasure...  have still to do quite a lot of uploads, and i already prepared them :-)
[10:17] <daniels> dholbach: the c abi hasn't been touched, but because of the version bump, all the mono apps need to be rebuilt; apt-cache rdepends only showed those two
[10:17] <daniels> dholbach: awesome
[10:17] <daniels> dholbach: then do we get awesome beagle love? :)
[10:17] <dholbach> daniels: to be honest, i'm just relying on your and tseng's word
[10:18] <dholbach> i'm on amd64 :-)
[10:18] <daniels> dholbach: afaict, 'it works'
[10:18] <daniels> yeah, me too
[10:18] <daniels> but I have an i386 laptop
[10:18] <dholbach> ah... well i haven't :-)
[10:18] <daniels> i can't imagine ever going back to an i386 desktop
[10:18] <dholbach> no... it's only 3 months now, but i wouldnt switch back again
[10:19] <dholbach> even with those amd64isms on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps :-)
[10:19] <elmo> daniels: you saw the REJECT right?
[10:19] <daniels> elmo: for dbus in debian?  yeah, what's up with that?
[10:20] <daniels> i saw it ... with no attached note
[10:20] <elmo> err, no, in ubuntu
[10:20] <daniels> elmo: er, no
[10:20] <daniels> haven't checked my mail since I uploaded
[10:20] <daniels> let me guess: targeted at unstable?
[10:20] <elmo> REJECT
[10:20] <elmo> Rejected: dbus_0.23.4-0ubuntu1.dsc refers to dbus_0.23.4.orig.tar.gz, but I can't find it in the queue or in the pool.
[10:20] <daniels> ah, bong
[10:20] <daniels> thanks
[10:21] <daniels> i actually was careful to do -sa the first time around
[10:21] <daniels> then, right before I uploaded, I did a tiny tweak, and forgot -sa
[10:21] <daniels> cheers
[10:28] <elmo> whee
[10:28] <elmo> hoary-test's gone from 60% to 90% in like half an hour :>
[11:11] <Mitario> hi everyone
[11:11] <dholbach> hey Mitario 
[11:23] <mvo> hey Mitario 
[11:24] <dholbach> hey mvo 
[11:25] <mvo> hey dholbach 
[11:27] <tritium> lamont, ping
[11:27] <Mitario> mvo, http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/update-manager/ :-)
[11:28] <Amaranth> i now know more about the fd.o menu spec then i ever wished to
[11:29] <Amaranth> on the plus side, my menu editor works without running as root now :)
[11:29] <Mitario> nice one :-)
[11:31] <dholbach> Amaranth: cool
[11:33] <Mitario> mvo, ping :-)
[11:35] <Amaranth> hmm, it doesn't actually change the menu and if i reload the editor the change is reverted....
[11:38] <mvo> Mitario: checking just now :)
[11:38] <mvo> Mitario: ahhh nice :)
[11:38] <mvo> Mitario: let's see if I can access it with my account :)
[11:38] <Mitario> mvo, indeed :-)
[11:38] <Mitario> mvo, i'll notify the translaters & contribers
[11:38] <Amaranth> this is the buggiest thing i've ever seen
[11:38] <Amaranth> sometimes it uses the .menu file, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it uses part of it
[11:39] <froud> Mitario: must I now work on gnome cvs for the docs?
[11:39] <Amaranth> all i've managed to do consistently is blank my applications menu
[11:39] <Amaranth> where is seb when you need him?
[11:39] <Mitario> froud, yes, if you wish, do you have a cvs account there?
[11:39] <mvo> Mitario: updating ... :)
[11:39] <froud> Mithrandir: no
[11:40] <Mitario> mvo, nice :)
[11:40] <froud> sorry Mitario no
[11:40] <Mitario> froud, ok, no problem, if you wish i can request one for you
[11:41] <froud> Mitario:  I was about to update to add the "Add CD" button and once you have the Help Button Enable redo the captures
[11:41] <froud> Mitario: It's a good idea
[11:41] <mvo> Mitario: hm, we need to add a help button :)
[11:42] <froud> mvo: snap
[11:42] <Mitario> mvo, heh umm, i think we have to redo the UI a bit then :-)
[11:42] <Mitario> mvo, otherwise it'll look cluttered :(
[11:43] <mvo> Mitario: *nod*
[11:43] <Mitario> froud, anyways, wait until you commit, or checkout the source from anonymous cvs.gnome.org and send us a patch
[11:43] <froud> Mitario: *nod*
[11:43] <Mitario> it'll only be for a short time
[11:43] <froud> Mitario: OK
[11:44] <Mitario> now, sorting my e-mail first..
[11:44] <Mitario> will get to the stuff in a bit
[11:44] <froud> Mitario: problem is to do that once screen changes are finished. no point documenting if the interface is changing
[11:45] <dholbach> daniels: seems like i'm ready to go
[11:46] <Mitario> froud, true
[11:46] <Mitario> mvo, froud maybe we can do some kind of UI freeze one week before 5.4?
[11:46] <Mitario> which is about today :p
[11:46] <froud> Mitario: Um I dont see update-manager in :pserver:anonymous@anoncvs.gnome.org:/cvs/gnome
[11:47] <mvo> yes :) it's really a short time now
[11:47] <Mitario> froud, huh.. hmm, maybe anoncvs.gnome.org is not synced yet
[11:47] <froud> bummer
[11:48] <froud> anyone know how long that takes
[11:50] <Mitario> i don't know, sorry :-(
[11:50] <Amaranth> anoncvs.gnome.org is on mirrors, isn't it?
[11:50] <mvo> Mitario: I commited a "dirty" property for gnome-software-properties. it will know only ask for updating the packagelist if samething has changed in the sources.list. it would be nice if you could also give it a bit of testing :)
[11:51] <Mitario> mvo, ok did you commit it in cvs.gnome.org? :-)
[11:52] <Mitario> i'm going to grab some food, i'll brb in 10 minutes
[11:53] <mvo> Mithrandir: yep
[11:54] <mvo> Mithrandir: ups, nick-completion error :) have fun in .dk 
[11:55] <dholbach> daniels: uploaded muine and tomboy
[11:56] <mvo> dholbach: coooooollllll
[11:56] <dholbach> mvo: well... i didn't do much on them :-)
[11:57] <dholbach> mvo: tseng and daniels made sure you can tomboy around :-)
[11:57] <mvo> *rock* tseng and daniels
[12:06] <Mitario> i'm back
[12:08] <mvo> Mitario: now I'm leaving for a bit
[12:10] <torkel> froud, Mitario: at least one of the anoncvs.g.o mirrors was synced about an hour ago
[12:11] <Mitario> ah ok, well, update-manager has been in cvs.g.o for 6 hours now
[12:12] <torkel> Mitario: sometimes the mirrors are way out of sync, so I usually stick to farbror.acc.umu.se
[12:16] <andred> Now that Ubuntu generates a whole bunch of english locales on install, Ubuntu's gdm suffers from http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=170706 . Check out the language list in gdm and you'll see the mess.
[12:16] <froud> torkel: thanks
[12:32] <deresh> hi 
[12:33] <deresh> i have a question avout misdn in kernel version 2.6.10
[12:39] <deresh> ANYONE??
[12:40] <Treenaks> deresh: #ubuntu
[12:41] <deresh> i tryed there but no one knows
[12:41] <deresh> in kernel 2.6.8 there was a misd support
[12:41] <Treenaks> this is not a support channel
[12:41] <deresh> but when i upgraded to 2.6.10 support is missing
[12:42] <deresh> do i think DEVELOPERS had removed mISDN support form kernel 
[12:42] <deresh> so i think this is a right place to ask why?
[12:43] <deresh> coz i dont want to manualy recompile kernel just for that
[01:07] <dholbach> hey seb128 
[01:10] <seb128> hi
[01:10] <jdub> is it just me, or does firefox 1.0.1 *not* leak like a sieve?
[01:10] <seb128> dunno I don't use firefox :p
[01:10] <jdub> nen
[01:10] <jdub> heh
[01:10] <dholbach> jdub: seems to be better at my place too
[01:10] <seb128> bah, everybody use that ? :p
[01:11] <dholbach> seb128: if epiphany didnt have the problems with at-random-jumping-focus, i'd use it
[01:11] <seb128> yeah, this one is annoying
[01:11] <dholbach> (if you use tabs and reload pages, while working on others)
[01:12] <seb128> the new galeon takles this issue, perhaps epiphany will follow :)
[01:12] <dholbach> i love epiphany's tweakable bookmark-bar
[01:13] <jdub> ah! dbus!
[01:13] <jdub> daniels: thanks :-)
[01:13] <dholbach> the MOTU crew completely fixed their first transition list :-)
[01:13] <jdub> seb128: you got benm's mail about g-t/nautilus patches?
[01:14] <jdub> dholbach: :-)
[01:14] <dholbach> UniverseHowlRebuildTODO will be next, right seb128? :-)
[01:14] <seb128> jdub: nop
[01:14] <seb128> dholbach: yep
[01:14] <jdub> seb128: what's your ubuntu.com address?
[01:15] <seb128> seb128@ubuntu.com
[01:15] <dholbach> seb128: what about #7887? shall i just rebuild libgnomeuimm2.0?
[01:15] <ogra> how is the status there
[01:15] <seb128> dholbach: feel free
[01:15] <seb128> I've to go for lunch
[01:15] <dholbach> seb128: ok
[01:15] <jdub> ogra: don't you have ubuntu addresses yet?
[01:15] <dholbach> seb128: bon apptit
[01:15] <seb128> bbl (~30 min)
[01:16] <ogra> jdub, afaik not
[01:16] <jdub> seb128: hrm, benm mailed you and cc'ed me
[01:16] <jdub> seb128: i'll forward again
[01:17] <ogra> jdub, thats why hwdb-client still says the users should send their data to hostmaster@grawert.net in the last step ;)
[01:17] <jdub> heh
[01:17] <ogra> got 35 submits so far :-D
[01:17] <jdub> nice!
[01:18] <dholbach> ogra: you should tell the people to gzip it, or do it yourself ;-)
[01:18] <ogra> dholbach, my server can cope with 300k attachments :)
[01:19] <dholbach> ogra: i thought it was only to polite to gzip it :-)
[01:19] <dholbach> since xml compresses so fine
[01:19] <ogra> and for release it will subimt to a ubuntu server so its only some weeks
[01:22] <mdke> who's in charge of the mailing lists? mako? anyone else?
[01:22] <ogra> mdke, jdub
[01:23] <mdke> hi ogra 
[01:23] <ogra> hi
[01:23] <mdke> are either around do you know?
[01:24] <dholbach> mdke: why don't you try a "jdub: ping" and see if he responds :-)
[01:24] <ogra> :)
[01:24] <mdke> hi dholbach, i got an email this morning confirming your worries about the wiki
[01:24] <dholbach> mdke: confirming worries?
[01:25] <ogra> mdke, you care for the new stuff there ?
[01:25] <mdke> dholbach, because if they are here, they will have highlights already :)
[01:25] <mdke> ogra, well sort of, everyone does really
[01:25] <ogra> mdke, would be nice to have _any_ trace of MOTU on the frontpage
[01:25] <mdke> ogra, stick it on.
[01:25] <dholbach> mdke is the moin specialist giving me 30 wiki mails in half an hour :-)
[01:26] <mdke> ogra, but really the ideal would be to cut down the frontpage making it simpler. maybe put a reference on the developer documents, and the "how to contribute" pages
[01:26] <mdke> dholbach, i'll paste you the email in PM
[01:27] <dholbach> ok
[01:28] <dholbach> mdke: yes... seems to underline IdeasForNewFrontPageStructure
[01:28] <mdke> also an italian user said the same thing this morning, that the wiki isn't accessible enough
[01:30] <dholbach> it would be nice if the frontpage itself could manage encouraging and guiding towards "getting involved" in a nice way
[01:30] <dholbach> so we don't loose willing contributors on the way
[01:30] <mdke> totally
[01:32] <dholbach> seb128: shouldnt libgnomeuimm2.0 then turn up in   apt-cache rdepends libhowl0   ?
[01:32] <jdub> mdke: mail dude, mail.
[01:32] <mdke> ok sorry
[01:34] <mdke> jdub, ok done
[01:50] <seb128> dholbach: why ?
[01:51] <dholbach> seb128: shlibs:Depends should add it, or am i wrong?
[01:51] <dholbach> seb128: grep howl /usr/lib/*.la is empty too
[01:51] <seb128> dholbach: so what's the issue ?
[01:51] <seb128> why do you want to make it depends on libhowl ?
[01:51] <dholbach> i don't want it to
[01:51] <dholbach> i thought it was
[01:52] <seb128> on ia64
[01:52] <seb128> according to the build log
[01:52] <seb128> are you on an ia64 ?
[01:52] <dholbach> oh... *reading again*
[01:52] <dholbach> no... unfortunately not
[01:52] <seb128> so wait for lamont's reply
[01:52] <dholbach> sorry for the confusion
[01:52] <seb128> np
[02:03] <seb128> jdub: thanks for the fwd. I've received the mail according to the logs but plobably dropped it in the middle of the 20 spams around it
[02:04] <jdub> heh
[02:06] <seb128> hate hate spams
[02:08] <psy_> er
[02:08] <psy_> re
[02:08] <psy_> :P
[02:13] <daniels> jdub: BBBBBBBEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEE
[02:13] <trukulo> daniels, WHERE ???
[02:14] <dholbach> wb daniels :-)
[02:14] <psy_> BEAGLE?
[02:14] <daniels> trukulo: dunno, but I want it in universe :)
[02:14] <trukulo> daniels, me too, i'm trying to compile it
[02:14] <trukulo> just now
[02:14] <daniels> i can compile and use it just fine on my laptop :)
[02:14] <trukulo> but i have problems compiling it
[02:14] <daniels> it just needs an eager packager
[02:14] <daniels> oh?
[02:14] <daniels> i just followed HoaryBeagleInstallGuide
[02:14] <trukulo> with one line: ./DBusisms.cs(67) error CS0117: `DBus.BusDriver' does not contain a definition for `NameOwnerChanged'
[02:15] <ogra> daniels, quick, port it to amd64 :-P
[02:15] <trukulo> i dont't compile any packages, just use everything from hoary
[02:15] <trukulo> have to work, but it doesn't
[02:15] <dholbach> yeah daniels: i will even say "please" :-)
[02:15] <daniels> ogra: it works on amd64 just fine; just needs repackaging for 1.1
[02:15] <daniels> trukulo: weird ... i think i was using latest cvs
[02:16] <ogra> dholbach, wb
[02:16] <trukulo> daniels, i'm using 0.0.7 from web
[02:16] <dholbach> ogra: one ctrl-w too much :-)
[02:16] <trukulo> not cvs, perhaps that's the problem
[02:17] <daniels> trukulo: i'll just update and rebuild cvs and see if it works ok or if i was on crack :)
[02:18] <trukulo> daniels, i'll use cvs too, then
[02:18] <trukulo> thanks for info ;)
[02:18] <trukulo> but tseng is working on package for universe
[02:21] <daniels> awesome
[02:21] <daniels> tseng: my hero
[02:21] <trukulo> :)
[02:21] <daniels> trukulo: 
[02:21] <daniels> make[1] : Leaving directory `/home/daniels/src/beagle/beagle'
[02:21] <daniels> make clean all  45.76s user 4.50s system 53% cpu 1:33.16 total
[02:21] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~/src/beagle/beagle%
[02:21] <trukulo> ok, daniel, i'm going to try it
[02:26] <trukulo> You should add the contents of `/usr/share/aclocal/libtool.m4' to `aclocal.m4'.
[02:26] <trukulo> Running aclocal  ...
[02:26] <trukulo> aclocal: configure.in: 113: macro `AM_CXXFLAGS' not found in library
[02:26] <trukulo> aclocal: configure.in: 128: macro `AM_CXXFLAGS' not found in library
[02:27] <trukulo> failing for me :P
[02:27] <trukulo> i think i'll just wait for tseng package
[02:27] <trukulo> i'm very bad at compiling things
[02:28] <daniels> try this: sudo apt-get install automake- automake1.4- automake1.6- automake1.7
[02:29] <trukulo> automake 1.7 not installed, could be this
[02:30] <trukulo> seems to work now, thanks
[02:33] <daniels> no worries :)
[02:33] <daniels> automake is ... um ... annoying like that
[02:33] <daniels> right now 1.7 seems to be the spot where everything works
[02:34] <trukulo> i'll note that as important here
[02:34] <trukulo> now seems to compile fine
[02:35] <daniels> cool :)
[02:36] <trukulo> System.DllNotFoundException: dbus-glib-1 in <0x00053> (wrapper managed-to-native)
[02:37] <trukulo> compiled, but doesn't work well :) anyway, thanks, i'll look at it now
[02:37] <daniels> trukulo: sudo apt-get install dbus-glib-1 :)
[02:37] <trukulo> it's installed
[02:38] <daniels> hmmmmm
[02:40] <trukulo> DEBUG: Initializing D-BUS
[02:40] <trukulo> FATAL: Could not initialize Beagle's bus connection.
[02:40] <trukulo> FATAL: System.DllNotFoundException: dbus-glib-1
[02:40] <trukulo> strange
[02:40] <daniels> hmm
[02:40] <daniels> OH!
[02:40] <daniels> dbus-glib-1-dev
[02:40] <daniels> it just tries to open the .so
[02:41] <trukulo> that's it !
[02:46] <trukulo> daniels, thanks, installed and working
[02:49] <ogra> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
[02:49] <ogra> http://backports.ubuntuforums.org/backports/dists/hoary-backports-staging/main/binary-i386/
[02:49] <mjg59> daniels: Did you see my messages about i915?
[02:52] <trukulo> WARN: Could not open /dev/inotify
[02:52] <trukulo> :P too beutiful to be real
[02:53] <daniels> mjg59: something about broken or seomthing
[02:53] <daniels> trukulo: heh :) you need to boot with the 'inotify' option
[02:53] <ogra> trukulo, enable it with the inotify bootopton
[02:53] <trukulo> ah, thanks for info !
[02:53] <trukulo> i love you ppl
[02:53] <trukulo> rebooting then
[02:54] <ogra> hmm, should we have told him hat it may lock up his system ?
[02:55] <ogra> that even
[02:55] <jordi> Kamion: did you have time to play with nano 1.3.5+cvs?
[02:55] <torkel> shouldn't beagle work without inotify?
[02:55] <torkel> it was just a warning...
[02:56] <mjg59> daniels: By default, it's setting the video RAM too low to get working 3D. If I set the VideoRam parameter, nothing seems to change
[02:56] <ogra> torkel, dunno, i dont even have mono on amd64 yet
[02:57] <dholbach> bbl
[03:01] <daniels> mjg59: bong
[03:01] <daniels> mjg59: i've never played with real i915 hardware, but it may have a hostile bios
[03:01] <daniels> mjg59: can you ramp up the allocation in the bios itself?
[03:03] <trukulo> f*g hell , when i use inotify, my system halts when gnome is loading
[03:03] <daniels> trukulo: yep :\ that's why it's not enabled by default
[03:03] <mjg59> daniels: Nope
[03:03] <torkel> trukulo: you should not have to use inotify with beagle
[03:03] <daniels> trukulo: it works for some people, but breaks for other
[03:03] <daniels> s
[03:03] <daniels> mjg59: craaaack.
[03:03] <mjg59> daniels: Indeed
[03:04] <mjg59> What's irritating is that there's nothing in the logs about videoram
[03:04] <mjg59> (other than Not enough to enable DRI
[03:04] <mjg59> )
[03:04] <torkel> they removed the inotify dependency i 0.0.7
[03:04] <trukulo> torkel, i read about that, but beagle gives me a warn (dev/inotify not found) and haven't got any result in querys
[03:04] <daniels> mjg59: ugh
[03:04] <daniels> mjg59: it should bomb really loudly when it fails to up the amount
[03:05] <daniels> should -> i think it does, not should -> it would be nice if
[03:05] <mjg59> Hrm. Ok, I'll try debugging later on
[03:05] <mjg59> (need to go to the pub now)
[03:07] <trukulo> umm, no results for me in beagle, strange
[03:08] <trukulo> Access to the path "/home/trukulo/.beagle/WebHistoryIndex/Index" is denied <- should be that
[03:10] <trukulo> ERROR: Caught exception while instantiating Files backend
[03:10] <trukulo> ERROR: System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.IO.IOException: Lock obtain timed out: Lock@/home/trukulo/.beagle/FileSystemIndex/Locks/lucene-673d9197cc718c7fe4242669f5ede4af-write.lock
[03:10] <trukulo> more problems there , umm
[03:11] <Treenaks> uh, remove .beagle & try again?
[03:12] <trukulo> i did
[03:13] <trukulo> sorry, don't want to disturb more here, forget it
[03:23] <tsume> hmmmm
[03:38] <tsume> so how does the ubuntu development differ from debian in the eyes of the developers?
[04:36] <tseng> beagled needs xattr?
[04:36] <tseng> wow
[04:40] <tseng> daniels: beagle worksforme!!!
[04:42] <tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/beagle.png indexing away.
[04:43] <tseng> hm it doesnt like our evo-sharp
[04:47] <daniels> tseng: awesome!
[04:47] <daniels> right now it's bedtime though
[04:47] <daniels> g'luck with it :)
[04:47] <tseng> thanks.
[04:55] <_d4vid> ky all
[04:57] <lamont> seb128: there's a reason I didn't mark that one critical...
[04:58] <seb128> lamont: ?
[04:58] <lamont> the ia64 bugs
[05:02] <srbaker> tseng, what's the icon to th eleft of muine?
[05:03] <tseng> update-manager
[05:03] <tseng> system - admin in your menu
[05:03] <srbaker> ahh
[05:04] <srbaker> tseng, what theme is that?
[05:04] <tseng> clearlooks
[05:04] <srbaker> cool
[05:05] <srbaker> nice.  that's my new theme
[05:06] <tseng> yeah
[05:07] <tseng> mine is actually -bluesky or whatever
[05:07] <tseng> im off for the day
[05:07] <tseng> have beagle working w/ e-d-s now also
[05:07] <tseng> will hack tonight maybe
[06:00] <lamont> morning mdz
[06:00] <mdz> morning
[06:00] <lamont> just tossed you a hoary-test update
[06:02] <lamont> mdz: btw, what severity do you want on the ia64 failures?  Been using 'normal'
[06:04] <lamont> although I would prefer to have nothing in the archive that we can't rebuild from source...
[06:04] <herve> including universe?
[06:05] <lamont> herve: if it doesn't build from source, it shouldn't be there.  The only way it got there is that _at_some_prior_point_in_time_ it did build
[06:06] <herve> so you mean we used to recompile debian imports when the sync was automatic?
[06:07] <lamont> all binaries in the archive have been built on data center buildd's.
[06:07] <lamont> there are no binary syncs
[06:07] <herve> good
[06:07] <lamont> have to rebuild them against our libraries, etc.
[06:07] <herve> but that doesn't explains how gcompris got in there :-)
[06:07] <lamont> so the only keys that can upload binaries to the archive are the buildd keys.
[06:07] <lamont> and they can't upload source.
[06:08] <lamont> ??
[06:08] <lamont> it built
[06:08] <lamont> or it's not there
[06:08] <herve> I had to add a build dep
[06:08] <herve> it's problematic anyway
[06:08] <herve> the motu is taking care of it
[06:09] <lamont> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gcompris/6.1+6.3RC2-3/
[06:09] <lamont> is the original build of it.
[06:09] <herve> yes but the newest failed
[06:10] <lamont> yes
[06:10] <lamont> and you'll notice that the latest i386 binary in the archive is the prior revision.
[06:10] <lamont> all nice an consistant
[06:10] <lamont> ent even
[06:11] <herve> good point
[06:11] <herve> I think gcompris is turning me mad :S
[06:11] <lamont> which is to say, gcompris is perfectly explainable. :-)
[06:11] <lamont> well, at least why it's in the archive is...
[06:27] <thom> ogra/jdub: mind if i NMU xscreensaver to removed the APPROVED crap?
[06:30] <mdz> lamont: why does mplayer have an mplayer-custom binary in the archive? that shouldn't be
[06:31] <zenwhen> it doesnt even install
[06:36] <herve> by the way, there are still packages of gnome 1.4 in the archive :-)
[06:36] <HiddenWolf> You're kidding me
[06:36] <zenwhen> thats pretty funny
[06:37] <herve> -dev packages mostly
[06:37] <herve> check libgnome-dev
[06:37] <herve> libgnomemm-dev
[06:37] <herve> libgnomeprint-dev
[06:38] <herve> some other but I won't list them all :-)
[06:39] <mdz> fabbione: ping, re: mplayer
[06:39] <fabbione> mdz: pong
[06:39] <fabbione> ( i don't have heaps of time today )
[06:43] <ogra> thom, i have my patch nearly ready
[06:43] <mdz> fabbione: never mind, it looks like it is correct, only mplayer-custom remains in the Packages file for some reason
[06:44] <fabbione> mdz: ok
[06:44] <fabbione> there is one problem tho
[06:44] <mdz> elmo: mplayer-custom has not been built by mplayer for a week or so; when will it fall out of Packages?
[06:44] <fabbione> for one mistake the _ppc.deb did build empty once
[06:44] <fabbione> whilt it should have been a FTBFS
[06:44] <fabbione> mdz: are you sure none of the packages acutally provides it?
[06:45] <ogra> thom, wanted to apply it tomorrow....but if you feel its urgent, go ahead
[06:46] <mdz> mplayer-386 | 1:1.0-pre6-0.3ubuntu6 | hoary/multiverse | i386
[06:46] <mdz> mplayer-custom | 1:1.0-pre5-0.6ubuntu1 | hoary/multiverse | i386
[06:46] <mdz> the version in the archive is from an older version of the source package
[06:46] <fabbione> ah ok
[06:49] <thom> ogra: ok, if you're doing it tomorrow i'll wait :-)
[06:49] <ogra> :)
[06:49] <herve> you seem not to be in a hurry :-)
[06:50] <ogra> just needs some small tweaks and i wanted to look at the ESC key thing
[07:04] <sabmoc> who judges the artwork for the breazy badger logo?
[07:05] <sabmoc> I would like to submit a few WIP's and get some feedback
[07:06] <LBM> what steps is used to generate the initial ubuntu Xorg configuration?
[07:17] <Dillweed> hello all.  I am currently using the nvidia drivers in hoary and get about 4550 FPS on my graphics card.  I also dual-boot with Gentoo and get about 6550 FPS.  Xorg.conf are the same.
[07:18] <Treenaks> Dillweed: 
[07:18] <Treenaks> FTP with what, and #ubuntu is the support channel, this is the development channel
[07:19] <Dillweed> i understand that.  I'm using glxgears.  I was wondering if this was a bug or not.
[07:20] <Dillweed> i mean a difference of 2000fps is huge.
[07:20] <Treenaks> glxgears is not a benchmarking tool.
[07:21] <Dillweed> i know.  but it was an informal test.  I would of not cared if it was 100fps difference.  I would of taken that as chance, but 2000 is huge and random
[07:22] <Treenaks> Dillweed: what kind of CPU do you have?
[07:23] <Dillweed> Treenaks, athlon-xp 2000+
[07:23] <Treenaks> that shoudn't be much of a problem either
[07:23] <Treenaks> don't have a clue. complain at nvidia
[07:24] <Dillweed> i guessing that it is optimization problem?
[07:24] <Treenaks> no
[07:24] <Treenaks> very unlikely
[07:25] <Dillweed> you think so?  that's basically the only difference between my systems though.
[07:25] <Treenaks> nvidia driver version
[07:25] <Dillweed> 6629
[07:25] <Treenaks> you sure that's the same?
[07:25] <Treenaks> on both?
[07:25] <Dillweed> yes
[07:25] <Treenaks> weird.. I have no clue, I'd blame nvidia
[07:25] <Dillweed> I know my systems :)
[07:26] <Treenaks> (them being the only uncontrollable factor in this)
[07:26] <Dillweed> possibly, but i don't think so.  
[07:27] <ogra> its _very_ likely (naerly sure) that nvidia is to blame
[07:27] <Dillweed> the driver is the driver and interfaces with the kernel.  maybe I'm using a tweaked kernel in gentoo and not ubuntu
[07:27] <Treenaks> Dillweed: are you using the -k7 kernel?
[07:27] <Dillweed> yes
[07:27] <Treenaks> then it's tweaked already
[07:28] <herve> Dillweed, same xorg and kernel versions?
[07:28] <ogra> btw, please move this to #ubuntu, this is not a support channel
[07:28] <herve> apart from -k7
[07:28] <Dillweed> i moved it to ubuntu but no help
[07:28] <Dillweed> I'm wondering if it is a compiled problem.
[07:28] <ogra> anyway, this is for ubuntu development...
[07:29] <ogra> so please keep it over there
[07:29] <Dillweed> I'm using hoary if that makes a difference
[07:29] <Treenaks> Dillweed: #ubuntu -- the IRC channel
[07:29] <Dillweed> i'm there.
[07:29] <Treenaks> Dillweed: ask there, not here then
[07:29] <Dillweed> geez not enough sleep.  thanks anyways.  I thought ubuntu was a helpful environment.
[07:30] <herve> Dillweed, search and ask lists too
[07:30] <ogra> Dillweed, its a nvidia problem, if nobody answers you it might e because only nvidia can help
[07:30] <ogra> s/e/be
[07:30] <Dillweed> ogra, i don't understand.
[07:31] <ogra> Dillweed, we cant change the driver, only nvidia can
[07:31] <ogra> and we dont know whats going on in the binary..
[07:32] <Dillweed> understandable, i'll keep looking.  It doesn't look like I'll get help here.
[08:11] <wasabi> I have a cyclic dependency I need to force. =(
[08:12] <stuNNed> hi which package if any is gst decodebin in ?
[08:14] <dholbach> stuNNed: apt-file search decodebin - this is more of a #ubuntu question
[08:14] <stuNNed> dholbach: yes sorry, will do next time
[08:14] <dholbach> stuNNed: np
[08:14] <schweeb> packages.debian.org is a big help too
[08:14] <schweeb> if you don't want to keep apt-file updated
[08:14] <schweeb> dunno if there's a ubuntu equivalent to packages.d.o
[08:17] <stuNNed> thanks guys /me keeps mouth shut :)
[08:17] <dholbach> stuNNed: nobody told you to shut up :-)
[08:18] <stuNNed> :D
[08:22] <tsume> slirp/misc.o(.text+0x2a): In function `getouraddr':
[08:22] <tsume> /home/tsume/qemu/slirp/misc.c:96: warning: Using 'gethostbyname' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking
[08:22] <tsume> how can I correct this?
[08:24] <WebMaven> Hi folks. I think th lib.e Python included in Ubuntu is missing a part of the standard
[08:24] <WebMaven> Ahem, I meant: I think the Python included in Ubuntu is missing a part of the standard lib.
[08:25] <WebMaven> specifically, import profile fails.
[08:26] <WebMaven> and it doesn't look like the profile module is installed anywhere.
[08:32] <schweeb> chris@omglaptop:~$ apt-cache search python2.4 profile
[08:32] <schweeb> python2.4-profiler - deterministic profiling of any Python programs
[08:32] <schweeb> that what you're lookin for?
[09:25] <tsume> erm
[09:25] <tsume> why isn't wxWidgets packaged for hoary?
[09:28] <ajmitch> tsume: it is
[09:28] <ajmitch> it is in universe
[09:29] <Amaranth> does wxwidgets finally use gtk 2.x?
[09:30] <tsume> ajmitch: erm
[09:30] <tsume> ajmitch: universe?
[09:30] <tsume> ajmitch: I didnt see anything in dselect ;)
[09:30] <ajmitch> tsume: yes, the universe component of hoary
[09:30] <ajmitch> check your apt sources.list then :)
[09:31] <Amaranth> tsume: you use dselect?
[09:31] <tsume> Amaranth: so? :)
[09:34] <tsume> ajmitch: oh I see.
[09:34] <tsume> ajmitch: so universe is user contrib?
[09:34] <WebMaven> schweeb, no, it's not. I want to be able to do 'import profile'.
[09:35] <WebMaven> http://docs.python.org/lib/profile.html
[09:35] <ajmitch> tsume: mainly it's packages imported from debian unstable that aren't officially supported 
[09:36] <tsume> ajmitch: oh.
[09:36] <tsume> ajmitch: so I'd be breaking my system if I wasn't careful. Okay
[09:37] <dholbach> tsume: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniversePackages/view?searchterm=universe
[09:37] <ajmitch> 'not officially supported' doesn't mean they'll break your system :)
[09:37] <tsume> ajmitch: debian packagers are pretty stupid, I've tried -unstable before
[09:37] <ajmitch> tsume: many of the ubuntu developers are debian packagers, so I'd not say that..
[09:38] <tsume> ajmitch: so they just create crap for debian and have it come out polished for ubuntu, cuute :) hah
[09:38] <Kamion> er, no
[09:38] <kylem> maybe you're just a moron.
[09:38] <kylem> *plonk*
[09:39] <dholbach> hey guys
[09:39] <tsume> kylem: I don't think so, I tried -unstable debian _several_ times
[09:39] <tsume> kylem: *plonk* to you as well ;)
[09:40] <Amaranth> tsume: You're talking to a lot of debian developers here...
[09:40] <Amaranth> tsume: Some of them may or may not have the power to ban you. :P
[09:40] <Kamion> yes, most people here are pretty familiar with Debian unstable and its strengths and weaknesses; but discussion thereof is not on-topic here
[09:41] <tsume> Amaranth: thats because all I see from debian are assholes who like thumping on people who are less fortunate to find manual material
[09:41] <tsume> mainly cafuego is an example
[09:41] <Amaranth> tsume: You can stop now.
[09:41] <Kamion> Ubuntu is not intended as a Debian-bashing forum
[09:41] <tsume> kylem: I know this.
[09:42] <jbailey> tsume: Did you figure out your glibc stuff?
[09:42] <Kamion> WebMaven: yes, that's in the python-profiler package. There are licensing issues with it, so it's separate.
[09:42] <helix> tsume: cafuego is not a debian developer, fwiw
[09:43] <Amaranth> the profiler license says it can only be used for python, right?
[09:43] <tsume> jbailey: I did, it was a silly configure option. If you don't build qemu all the way with every target-list (i386, ppc, arm) then it will error
[09:43] <tsume> the warning wasn't important
[09:43] <Kamion> Amaranth: right
[09:43] <ajmitch> Amaranth: it's quite annoying
[09:43] <tsume> jbailey: there was actually more beneath the warning which was making it stop the build
[09:43] <Amaranth> i bet
[09:44] <jbailey> tsume: Cool.  Also in general, you can't static link an app that has anything to do with authentication, or database lookups (dns, etc...)
[09:44] <tsume> helix: I know, but he is like dblack of the ruby community. He is suffering from big penis symdrome and has some power over the support and project people wise.
[09:45] <dholbach> tseng: hey, will you please drop it
[09:45] <tsume> jbailey: well :) heh I figured that out. 
[09:45] <dholbach> oops
[09:45] <dholbach> tsume: ^ 
[09:45] <tsume> jbailey: I usually only use BSD, but the laptop is an exception :)
[09:46] <dholbach> tseng: sorry for that :-)
[09:46] <tsume> dholbach: I'd appreciate it if you didn't interrupt
[09:46] <tsume> dholbach: I was answering a statement.
[09:47] <Kamion> tsume: cafuego has no power over the Debian project people-wise, and again, this discussion doesn't belong here
[09:47] <tsume> is there a 'multiverse' in hoary?
[09:47] <dholbach> tsume: is that so? well, i think for most in here: this is a development channel and nobody really cares who you can't stand
[09:47] <Kamion> tsume: yes
[09:47] <dholbach> ...i think i speak...
[09:47] <tsume> what does multiverse compose of?
[09:48] <Kamion> non-free unsupported packages
[09:48] <tsume> okay.. :) then what is the difference between multiverse, and universe?
[09:48] <Kamion> universe => free unsupported packages
[09:48] <tsume> ohh..
[09:49] <zenwhen> and superverse is where the candy and drinks are kept
[09:49] <Kamion> tsume: http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components
[09:49] <tsume> hehe..
[09:49] <dholbach> tsume: i referred to a link to the wiki a few minutes ago
[09:50] <LinuxJones> guys there are a couple of idiots spamming #ubuntu can someone pop in and make them stop ?? NeWXeR and Groil
[09:53] <tritium> can anyone point out a package that has a good watch file for sourceforge.net that I can learn by example from?
[09:57] <WebMaven> Kamion, but isn't that part of the standard python library? Wouldn't that out it under the Python license?
[09:59] <Kamion> WebMaven: it is part of the Python standard library, but it is not under the unmodified Python license
[09:59] <Kamion> WebMaven: see http://www.python.org/doc/2.4/lib/node829.html
[10:00] <Kamion> we've been discussing the issue with upstream
[10:00] <Kamion> (not me personally though, so don't ask me for more detail than that :-))
[10:29] <tsume> where can I request software for packaging?
[10:29] <tsume> widestudio is an excellent toolkit, and stabple, but debian still have the 4 year old version
[10:29] <tsume> *stable
[10:30] <tsume> 4 years old is too long, the new release 3.90-1 has even java support :)
[10:31] <mdz> tsume: www.ubuntu.com/wiki/MOTU
[10:32] <mdz> these things go faster if you offer to help, rather than complaining about the current situation
[10:32] <tsume> mdz: I can help! :)
[10:33] <tsume> mdz: widestudio is important to me, and I use it on a daily basis. I know its stable
[10:33] <tsume> mdz: heh.. masters of the universe.. hehe :)
[10:37] <wasabi> widestudio (3.50-2-2) unstable; urgency=low
[10:37] <wasabi>   * Orphaned this package.
[10:37] <tsume> it needs to be deleted
[10:38] <tsume> many debianers on a few MLs were getting confused at WideStudio because I told them about it, and they immediately went to the archive instead of the website
[10:38] <mdz> it doesn't need to be deleted just because it's an old version
[10:38] <tsume> mdz: and what about the bugs and exploits?
[10:39] <mdz> tsume: there aren't any reported
[11:09] <IamNEGATIVECREEP> hi
[11:09] <IamNEGATIVECREEP> alguem fala portugues?
[11:10] <ogra> who writes such crap...
[11:11] <stuNNed> good manpages *with* examples are key imho
[11:11] <ogra> It returns an integer less than, equal to, or greater than zero if  s1  is  found
[11:12] <ogra> so how do i know if the strings match ??? man, they should learn to explain it right...
[11:15] <wasabi> So what's the process to get something moved from multiverse to universe?
[11:21] <thom> wasabi: prove to elmo that the license is Free
[11:25] <wasabi> okay. this is odd then.
[11:25] <wasabi> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/hoary.all.i386
[11:25] <wasabi> notice bcel. It's depwaiting on j2sdk1.4 isn't it?
[11:25] <wasabi> (trying to interpret)
[11:27] <wasabi> however, it doesn't actually depend on j2sdk1.4 anymore
[11:32] <Amaranth> anyone here know how the fd.o menu spec works?
[11:32] <Amaranth> i've got an applications.menu file in ~/.config/menus/ that merges user entries into the GNOME menu but it doesn't replace system ones with their user versions
[11:33] <Amaranth> like if i have testingthis.desktop in the system menus and the user ones it uses the system one
[11:37] <doko> LANGUAGE is a colon separated list of locale names, is there a reason why the encoding is not included in the locale names?
[11:43] <doko> kamion: ^^^
[11:47] <lamont> wasabi: you need something cleared?
[11:49] <lamont> wasabi: I have informed the buildd that j2sdk1.4 is there.
[11:49] <wasabi> It's not there. ;)
[11:49] <lamont> mind you, that's a lie
[11:49] <wasabi> k
[11:49] <wasabi> Just to test, for future knowledge, I did a second upload.
[11:49] <wasabi> I was just curious if it would bump it.
[11:50] <lamont> but it's easier than taking the one package, and giving it back
[11:50] <lamont> it won't
[11:50] <wasabi> In case you get hit by a train someday.
[11:50] <lamont> dep-waits are forever
[11:50] <wasabi> oh.
[11:50] <WebMaven> Kamion, thanks for the pointer.
[11:50] <wasabi> Seems like depwaits should update if there is a new version available. ;0
[11:50] <lamont> there are lamont-backups
[11:50] <lamont> and there are times it seems they shouldn't.
[11:50] <ogra> thom, a present for you....
[11:50] <dholbach> lamont: tritium nearly cleared the whole defoma list, it's done now
[11:50] <lamont> sometimes the depwait is not immediately obvious from looking at the package, etc.
[11:50] <ogra> (hope it builds everywere)
[11:51] <lamont> dholbach: woot
[11:51] <dholbach> :-)
[11:51] <WebMaven> The zope3 package depends on the presence of the profile module (at least for running the unit tests)
[11:51] <wasabi> lamont, j2sdk1.3 also
[11:51] <wasabi> for rhino
[11:51] <wasabi> my other package in question. ;0
[11:52] <thom> ogra: new screensaver? oooooh oooooh oooh
[11:53] <ogra> :)
[11:54] <ogra> didnt fix the ESC key thing yet, but designwise it should be k now
[11:54] <doko> WebMaven: please could you file a but report
[11:55] <lamont> wasabi: done
[11:55] <wasabi> thanks!
[11:59] <dholbach> lamont: have fun :-)
[11:59] <lamont> oh yeah.  loads.
[11:59] <dholbach> good :-)
[11:59] <ogra> lamont, what do they bite ?
[11:59] <ogra> *g*
[12:01] <Loevborg> thom, your nickname upsets me - each time I see it, I wonder if you might be the real thom. disappointment quickly ensues.