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smhi 12:54
mdkehowdy pardner12:54
mdkesm, your call if you wanna try and test the zopeedit thing12:55
mdkeif you're busy, np12:55
smoh I forgot.. thanks12:55
mdkeseriously np12:55
smyes, can you try right now on ubuntu wiki TestPage12:55
mdkeit works on testpage last time i checked12:55
mdkebut not on other12:55
smok.. any page where it doesnt work.. show me12:56
mdkeok hang on12:56
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mdkejust worked on MatthewEast12:57
mdkejust worked on ItalianDocumentation12:58
smdrat :)12:58
mdkeits good news12:59
mdkeyou've put a curse on me tho12:59
mdkeworked on DocumentationArea12:59
smyay.. let me see01:00
mdkei've reverted em01:00
mdkecould it be related to the amount of time spent on editing? these have been very brief of course01:00
mdkeits definitely working now01:01
mdketried also on GettingUbuntu01:01
smshouldn't be01:01
smubuntu has squid caching things, but it's been reliable for me01:01
smDocumentationArea's purpose now is the starting point for user docs, am I right01:02
mdkesm, I haven't changed it01:02
mdkebut yeah i guess so01:02
mdkei've started some testing pages for exploring a cleaner structure pursuant to that thread on the list that you and Mary were commenting on01:03
smgood stuff01:07
smI think renaming DocumentationArea to UserDocumentation would be a good step01:08
mdkewould you write it on that page pls? also any further categories of documentation that might be good subcategories for that page01:08
mdkethat is a good idea i think01:08
mdkegot the structured text articles down into double figures today ;)01:09
mdkenothing better than watching james bond on tv and converting wiki pages to moinmoin01:09
smI wrote it on the list already01:09
mdkesm, thanks :)01:09
smI could just do it, that would be clear eh :)01:09
mdkei don't mind doing it01:09
smthis is a wiki.. it's just waiting for someone to feel strongly enough :)01:10
smI should do it and take the heat :)01:10
mdkeoh the rename01:10
mdkeyeah its not a problem01:10
mdkearen't you the wikimaster anyhow?01:11
smI'm one of the volunteers with admin access.. but no special authority over anything01:11
smchanging.. done01:11
mdkewhat is NewFrontPage?01:11
smat least I try not exercise any 01:12
=== mdke looks
mdkei never saw that page before01:12
smwikimaster.. WikiMaster.. MasterOfWiki.. hmm, hmm..01:12
mdkedamn i can't believe i didn't see that page01:13
smI 've seen it01:13
smcan't remember if it's really the old page01:13
smI think it is01:13
mdkeits better than the current one :p01:14
smit's the old new old front page01:14
smthat happens sometimes :)01:14
smI like those compact layouts.. the simple one was nice01:14
mdkeits a bit "html"01:15
mdkea bit last summer01:15
smmore efficient for a reader01:15
mdkeyeah i agree01:15
smbut not as simple to edit.. not sure how to do it in moin actually01:15
mdkenot sure it can be done01:15
smthere's tables.. I expect so01:15
mdkehtml is a pain in the ass to edit except with zopeedit ;)01:15
smyeah.. in special cases it can be worth it I think01:16
smsince the alternative is a less useful page01:16
mdkebut it is a good idea in principle, because then things can be split off into subpages01:16
mdkea FrontPage with 5 or 6 links would be the way forward i think. DOCS, WIKI, TEAMS, COMMUNITY, POLICY etc01:16
mdkeyou had to amend links to rename that doc did you?01:17
mdkei thought they go automatically01:18
smthey usually do.. and did this time01:19
smbut I was fooled for a bit due to caching01:19
smhad to shift reload01:19
mdkesaw you deep in the polish and portugese docs ;)01:20
smthat was zwiki01:20
mdkeno way?01:20
smway :)01:20
mdkeoh yeah01:20
mdkeyou would have had to be really fast01:20
mdkewell you still get the credit01:20
smwe've been keeping the FrontPage mostly free of subtopics.. I think I'll reparent that latest bunch away01:21
mdkei'm doing that fairly often01:21
mdkemy favourite is parenting userpages01:21
smjust putting them at top level.. I'm sure there's a better place01:22
mdkehow do you do that?01:22
smdrat this cache01:23
smI switch to full mode in the zwiki skin (plone skin works too); open each immediate child in a new tab; click reparent button at bottom of each01:24
mdkeso reparent without any content in the box?01:24
smright, puts them at the top01:24
mdkedo you get the one where you log in and it gives you "page not found" and refers you to related links01:24
mdkelove it01:24
smyeah, that sucks01:25
=== sm looks at that
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mdkei filed a bug today actually on that, because it was annoying me so much01:25
mdkehi hypatia 01:25
mdkepleased to meet you01:26
mdke<- matt01:26
mdkefeedback on the wiki structure page01:28
mdkewhat a star01:28
smmdke: can you point me that login bug ? I have search fatigue01:36
smoh was it on WikiWishlist ?01:36
mdkeno hang on01:37
mdkesm 783901:37
=== hypatia = mary
hypatiaI post to the lists occasionally :)01:40
mdkehi :)01:41
smhi mary!01:41
sm<- simon01:41
mdkethis is a great moment01:42
mdke3 great minds01:42
mdkein the same place01:42
mdke<-- bed02:00
mdkebye all02:00
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smcan't solve it right now.. night all02:01
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=== froud-away is now known as froud
=== froud grinds his teeth a customer asked to write an app in VB.
froudHow to develop and build VB apps on Linux. I am darned if I am gonna work on Windoze just for this.07:55
Burgundaviauh right08:04
Burgundaviabreak out the bats08:04
froudBurgundavia: hello08:21
froudHmmm, musing over KBasic08:22
froudDo you know anything about it08:22
froudBurgundavia: did you get to the screen capt of BitTorrent08:25
Burgundaviawill get one now08:27
froudBurgundavia: thanks08:30
=== froud is like totally confused by the kbasic web site
froudpenguins and kongi everywhere, but no nix download08:31
froudah I get it08:32
froudhe only has a preview ready for windows08:32
Burgundaviathat website is ouch08:33
Burgundaviabut a cool idea08:34
BurgundaviaI remember running into the line limit on an apple ] [ with basic08:34
Burgundavia64k lines I think08:34
Burgundaviame and a friend08:34
froudBurgundavia: thanks for that patch08:35
Burgundaviatotally forgot about it08:36
BurgundaviaI should do some looking at the release notes and quickguide tomorrow08:36
froudhapens, I have made a review and marked status complete08:36
froudWhat about User or Admin Guide08:37
froudyeah the web site in eeihna08:38
froudhey call more time, howzit maskie 08:38
froudmaskie: you got any idea how to write VB6 on Linux08:39
Burgundaviayou can do VB.Net on *nix, but VB6?08:39
Burgundaviaas an aside, ms just announced that is not supported VB6 anymore08:40
froudYeah, but that is the spec I have08:40
froudbsides I dont think VB6 will dies that fast08:41
froudtoo many programmers08:41
BurgundaviaI don't think so either08:41
BurgundaviaThis is a case of ms trying to push something that most people don't want08:41
Burgundaviabig surprise08:41
froudyeah normally works that way08:41
froudOh well let's hope they will piss off enough ms vb devs so they move to Linux :-)08:43
BurgundaviaFor the really adventurous, try XBasic, a BASIC compiler that runs under both Windows and Linux08:43
Burgundaviafrom http://www.computerbooksonline.com/program/vb6dchap.htm08:43
Burgundaviathat is what I grabbed in about 3 secs08:44
froudyes I saw xbasic08:46
BurgundaviaI doubt any of them are actually useful08:47
froudfrom vb4linux "So far, there are currently 3 developers for the VB4Linux project. We'll probably begin in about a week or so... Still looking for more developers!"08:47
Burgundaviathere seems to be a commercial app called REALBasic that seems to do what you need, on the outset08:50
Burgundaviaonly $400 USD08:50
BurgundaviaI'll take 308:50
Burgundaviaand one for the dog08:50
froudYes, and I want it open08:50
froudseems like a simple thing08:51
Burgundaviacan you convince the client to use python or something else?08:51
froudNo he is a ms preacher ;-)08:52
froudit's ms or nothing08:52
froudhe wants the source08:52
Burgundaviaso why does it need to run on linux?08:52
Burgundaviawait a sec08:53
froudhe does not08:53
froudhe needs it on windows08:53
Burgundaviahe wants the source and he wants ms?08:53
froudyes, but he pays handsomely for the src08:53
=== froud has to do these types of jobs to fund FOSS development
Burgundaviacan you sell him on the wonders of Ironpython and .Net then?08:54
Burgundaviathe ironpython dev is a microsoftie08:54
froudHe he, he wants it VB because it will integrate in a much bigger system08:54
Burgundaviawell, looks like someone gets to use xp then08:55
froudyou know ERP system08:55
froudno his system is an ERP08:55
=== froud smiles at his inbox, six modules for ICDL released as free
froudnow that's the kinda projects I want more of :-)08:57
Burgundaviawhat is ICDL?08:57
froudToday I must find a way to automate porting this stuff to Docbook08:58
froudInternational Computer Drivers License08:58
froudThe Shuttleworth Foundation is releasing it as a free and open project under CC-BY-SA 2.008:58
froudvery cool08:59
Burgundaviaah, wouldn't be nice to have that kind of money08:59
Burgundaviamove worlds with it08:59
ccfroud: a CC-By-SA ICDL ?08:59
froudHe he they have a plan08:59
froudcc: yes08:59
ccfroud: where is it ?08:59
Burgundaviafroud: "The Synaptic package manager also now includes support to upgrade your Ubuntu Distribution." from the release notes08:59
Burgundaviawhat does this mean exactly?09:00
Burgundaviais this update warty-->hoary?09:00
froudcc: not yet released I have to d osome spade work over the netx few months09:00
froudBurgundavia: yes09:00
froudBurgundavia: works well too09:00
ccfroud: spade work?09:00
cci.e. you're writing it ?09:00
froudcc: no it is already written, I need to port it to docbook, setup the web and do the repos stuff etc09:01
ccfroud: oh, is there a chance i can take a gander at it ?09:01
froudcc: when it is released it will be free for all to gander09:01
Burgundaviafroud: what is status of the release notes? Can I change to wording of that sentence to make a little clearer?09:01
froudBurgundavia: sure09:02
Burgundaviafroud: ok09:02
froudcc: you have an interest in ICDL?09:02
ccfroud: so it isn't now, ok, thanks09:02
ccfroud: yes, i made a similar proposal before (not to canonical, but linux-aus)09:03
froudcc: the icdl has written their materials and with tsf will release it free09:03
froudcc: this is great news09:03
ccfroud: but they're not OSS based09:03
ccthe ICDL materials are windoze based09:03
froudcc: no but they are comming over09:04
froudcc: this is ICDL using OOo09:04
ccfroud: oh, that is really interesting and good to note09:04
cci had interet to base it off stuf fi did before09:04
froudgood news here in Africa09:04
ccat http://training.bytebot.net09:04
froudhe he lol you have that bookmarked too09:05
ccno, thats at the top of my head09:05
ccthats my work :P09:05
froudwhat's your work?09:05
ccthe stuff at training.bytebot.net09:05
ccthe OOo and Linux stuff. old but mine09:06
froudcool dude09:06
froudyou may be interested then in the LearnLinux project09:06
froudthe doc-team will hopefully be creating an Ubuntu version of it09:07
froudthe src is already in svn in my branch09:07
ccah, nice09:07
froudyou game to devel an ubuntu version09:07
ccwhich is why i thought of icdl a while ago09:07
frouddo you have a working copy of the repos09:08
Burgundaviafroud: I got a couple of errors with the release notes09:08
BurgundaviaEntity 'distro-rev' not defined09:08
froudBurgundavia: he he hold09:08
Burgundaviait also said that it can't parse global.ent09:09
froudno document is valid09:09
frouddid you svn up from the trunk lately09:09
froudwe moved release notes09:09
froudnow in releasenotes/09:09
Burgundaviayep, synced this morning09:09
Burgundavianothing come by but our stuff since09:10
froudHmm do you have releasenotes/09:10
froudcc: learnlinux stuff is in my branch09:10
froudcc: do you have a working copy of branches/09:11
froudBurgundavia: try again09:11
froudit validates on my system09:11
ccfroud: no, but if you point me to instructions, i'll co it now09:11
froudand trickie has not reported an problem09:11
froudcc: so you have used svn before09:12
=== cc is more a cvs man though
froudcc: best thing is to do svn co https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos09:12
froudthat will give you tags/ branches/ trunk/ and vendor/09:12
froudafter Hoary I will merge my branch into trunk/09:13
Burgundaviaaww crap09:13
froudBurgundavia: why09:13
Burgundaviaafter 756, it won't even load09:13
Burgundavia/home/rasputin/Ubuntu%20Documentation%20Team/trunk/releasenotes/release-notes.xml:11: parser error : StartTag: invalid element name09:13
Burgundavia<<<<<<< .mine09:13
frouddude it loads here09:14
froudfrom HEAD09:14
froudyou have a patch     conflicting09:15
froudperhaps you did a commit before doing svn up09:15
froudit's only bken in your WC09:15
Burgundaviaya, I regrabbed from svn and it works now09:15
froudcc: there is over 1400 pages in LearnLinux09:16
froudcc: we will need to co-ordinate our effort very well in order to do it09:16
ccfroud: hmm, sure09:17
froudcc: any ideas are welcome09:17
froudcc: we dont have to keep it as it is09:17
froudcc: the result will be the will of the community09:17
froudcc: we will however give credit to the original team09:18
froudcc: and add credit of those who contribute09:18
froudcc: so structure changes as well as content changes are welcome09:19
froudcc: btw there is no desktop stuff in there09:20
ccfroud: how big is the check out ?09:20
froudcc: its all cli09:20
ccrepos/trunk/images is getting largeish09:20
froudcc: yes, but once you have it the rest is easy09:21
ccfroud: how large is the initial co ?09:21
froudno idea09:21
froudcc in my wc it is 94.5 MB but that includes management files which take a lot of space. yours should be less09:24
ccfroud: thanks. makes me feel better ;-)09:26
froudcc: scary stuff?09:26
ccfroud: no, bandwidth is an issue09:26
cci'd prefer to do it from 2am onwards when traffic is free if its really large09:26
froudcc: where are you co.za09:26
ccfroud: australia09:26
froudnever had bandwidth problems while in au09:27
froudbigpond cable is awesome09:27
ccwe have download quotas/caps09:27
ccoptus cable is what i'm on 09:27
cci get 12gb/month09:27
froudI had that problem a few times09:27
ccand thats not enough when tracking unstable releases09:27
froudluck you we get 3gb09:27
ccwell, yeah, 3gb last time. they recently upgraded us09:28
froudso what do you do when you are not working on FOSS09:28
ccfroud: not much, i'm a foss person09:28
froudpaid to work by who?09:30
froudgo on you can say09:32
froudwe wont hold it against you 09:32
=== froud taps the table
froudcc: nice smile09:36
ccfroud: hah09:36
ccsorry, was awol for a bit09:36
ccbe back later, definitely09:36
froudstrange how when the hard questions come people always must go09:38
=== froud goes off to do some work
ccfroud: i am unemployed, completely. i get paid by no one. i occasionally do contractual gigs here and there09:40
ccfroud: and i'm mainly involved in the fedora project; would love to get paid OSS work, definitely09:40
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mdkegood morning11:11
mdkeenrico, i've subscribed to the wiki, how does that script work?11:15
=== enrico checks
enricoI use it on a Maildir-format mailbox (one file per mail)11:20
enricoYou cd inside the Maildir and run the script: it prints a line per message, with some stats11:20
enricoThen save the output, and run wsaggregate on it11:21
mdkeenrico, ah i c11:28
mdkeenrico, it won't work on an mbox11:28
enricoUhm, probably not11:28
mdkeho capito11:28
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=== matt_ is now known as mdke
mdkeping mako01:08
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=== froud looks at amu and Qerub for 1st draft review of document "Using K Network Configuration." Source can be obtain @ https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu/knetwork-conf For easy reading see http://www.inwords.co.za/kubuntu/knetwork-conf/knetwork-conf.html. Patches and input to sean@inwords.co.za or to ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com
=== froud looking for docteam contributors
froudjsgotangco: hello04:24
jsgotangcohow to start in the docteam?04:27
froudjsgotangco: what do you want to do, wiki or Docbook?04:30
froudStarting point for all is http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentationTeam04:30
jsgotangcowell i have been doing wiki work for sometime04:32
froudDo you want to continue or are you looking to learn somethng new04:34
jsgotangcowell i want to go further04:34
jsgotangcosomething new too04:34
froudok, do you know docbook04:34
froudit's not a problem if you don't04:35
jsgotangcoi have no idea04:35
froudOk best thing is to see if you can get through this http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepRepository04:35
froudFollow the instructions if you have questions, shout and I will help04:36
froudIt's easier than it sounds04:36
jsgotangcook ill check it out04:37
froudcool, once you have a feel we will get you started on something04:37
froudare you using GNOME or KDE04:37
jsgotangcoim on gnome04:38
froudOK running HOARY04:38
froudCool dude04:38
froudOK you will also want to subscribe to mailing lists04:39
froud user-list04:39
froud    http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc04:39
froud    http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc-commits04:39
jsgotangcooh cool Ill subscribe then04:40
jsgotangcoi got confirmation for ubuntudownunder04:40
froudTools you need to install04:41
froudDocbook XSL04:41
froudsudo apt-get insstall docbook04:41
froudsudo apt-get install docbook-xsl04:41
froudsudo apt-get install xsltproc04:42
froudsudo apt-get install libxml2-utils04:44
froudHmm. That should so it for now04:45
jsgotangcook ill try out first that stepbystep link and see if i can manage that04:46
froudC c'ing ya ;-)04:46
froudwelcome to the Docteam BTW04:46
mdkehi jsgotangco 04:47
jsgotangcothanks thanks04:47
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jsgotangcowell i gotta catch some Zzzzzz05:20
jsgotangcolater people05:20
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