mjg59thom: Hi12:01
ograLoevborg, he is the real thom12:01
mdkethom yorke?12:02
Loevborgmdke, *nod*12:03
=== mdke mobs thom and gets his autograph
mjg59thom: Ok, we got logs from the lolotop12:06
mjg59It ran the powerbutton script immediately after the resume had finished12:07
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thullyFor several reasons (I don't enough time,  and I need something more stable as my primary OS) I will be unable to continue running/testing/reporting bugs in the development version of Ubuntu.  What should I do with my bug reports?  Is there a way to "release them" - that is, take my name off them?12:12
mdkethully, i will watch the firefox one12:14
thomLoevborg: it's not my nickname12:14
mjg59thom: I /suspect/ that it's not actually handling the event until the previous event has exited, so we end up with the same problem12:14
Loevborgthom, what does that mean metaphyiscally?12:14
thullysorry - I just am at a time where I need to be able to depend on my laptop suspending, resuming, getting online etc.  Hoary does this most of the time, but I find that things go wrong at exactly the same time.12:14
thommjg59: meh12:14
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thommjg59: acpid should clear the even if it's locked12:15
thomLoevborg: it's my _name_12:15
mjg59thom: I don't think acpid_handle_event returns until the script has exited, at which point the lock gets removed again12:15
thomaaah, ew12:16
mjg59thom: So I think our best bet is to have a helper script that sleeps and then removes the lock (which is horrible, but, well)12:16
thomyeah, i think you're right. nod12:16
Loevborgoh ok.12:17
thullyI think maybe I should just stick to the stable releases (of Ubuntu, another distro, or another OS altogether) for now - It's not a good sitution if you have trouble w/your internet connection and have something that needs to be done12:17
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thomthully: sure; if you're not comfortable running unstable software, don't12:19
mjg59Hmm. Right. I should go to bed soon, and then spend the day hacking acpi12:19
thullyI got started running Hoary when Warty didn't support suspend very well on my laptop (either 10% usage/hour or nothing - no swsusp even)12:20
dholbachhey zul12:21
thullyIf I had a test machine, I'd run it on that - but I currently only have one system (and I'm actually sending it for warranty work next week)12:21
mjg59It's still the case that ACPI suspend is highly experimental under Linux, which is why it's disabled by default12:21
thullyto disk, to RAM, or both?12:21
Loevborgthully, both.12:21
zuloooh...what did i miss..12:21
mjg59To disk is enabled by default, and works in most use cases12:22
thullyI would use APM (my system supports it) but apparently you can't do speedstepping in APM12:22
mjg59You ought to be able to12:22
mjg59You'll lose other aspects of CPU power management though12:22
mjg59Kamion: Is man supposed to be attempting to use unicode hyphens on the Linux console?12:23
thullyWell, I'd like to avoid the OS That Can Not Be Named, but laptop support appears to still be a bit troublesome in Linux...12:25
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mjg59If you want laptop support equivilent to that offered by Windows, your choices are Windows or MacOS X12:26
zenwhenworks fine on my laptop12:26
thullyand I really can't fix it myself at this time12:26
mjg59Linux laptop support has improved massively over the past year, but we still can't offer the same level of functionality12:27
thullysuspend and wireless are the big issues at this point - although I actually think I have one of the better supported laptops12:27
mdkeyou have to buy the right laptop i guess12:27
thullywell, I think mine is about as good as it gets - suspend and wireless work fine, but are still a bit buggy12:28
zenwhenThe orinoco gold classic is the solution to linux wireless issues.12:28
thomipw* work fine12:30
=== thom radiates hate at cdbs
helixthom: why?12:30
thullyyes - most of my issues are wireless after resume from suspend, and switching internet connections (from wi-fi, to PPP, and back...)12:31
Loevborgzenwhen, those are impossible to get a hold of at a decent price, at least here.12:32
thomhelix: obfuscation bad, mmmkay?12:32
jbaileythom: You must hate debhelper and debuild then. =)12:32
helixit's not that obfuscated12:32
thomjbailey: i don't count debhelper as obfuscated, since it's utterly obvious from the rules file what the intent is :-)12:33
zenwhenLoevborg, that is unfortunate. All i had to do was plug mine into my pcmcia slot, and it ifup'd as eth012:33
jbaileythom: I find the same with cdbs. =)12:33
helixthom: you should use yada12:34
thomhelix: heh12:34
thomjbailey: give me docs then, so i can decipher other people's cdbs12:35
=== mjg59 manages to almost solve the video out issues
=== jlj [~agp@host-81-191-64-79.bluecom.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jbaileythom: Working on it. =)12:36
mjg59daniels: Argh. It can't change RAM size because AGP hasn't been loaded.12:36
=== mjg59 needs to add extra PCI IDs
Kamionmjg59: I uploaded a version of groff to Debian on Friday that turns that off; it's awaiting a sync to Ubuntu. (By the way, groff has no clue whether you're on the Linux console or not. Nor does man, for that matter.)12:40
=== buga is now known as buga-away
Kamionogra: 'man strcmp' is pretty clear if you read the next line and know what the word "respectively" means. :-)12:41
thullyOK, then - I may regretfully end up installing that other OS... maybe I'll take a look at Hoary final first, and possibly SUSE (they have pretty good laptop+wireless support)12:41
ograKamion, docbook was ore helpful ;)12:42
ogramore even12:42
KamionIt returns12:42
calccdbs isn't hard to understand :)12:42
Kamion       an integer less than, equal to, or greater than zero if  s1  is  found,12:42
Kamion       respectively, to be less than, to match, or be greater than s2.12:42
Kamionogra: i.e. "less than zero if s1 is found to be less than s2; equal to zero if s1 is found to match s2; greater than zero if s1 is found to be greater than s2"12:42
=== calc dislikes cdbs for other reasons, but understanding it isn't one of them
Kamiondoko: no idea, I don't really understand LANGUAGE and I've never found a clear spec for its contents12:43
ograKamion, after all it just should say it returns zero if the strings match :)12:43
Kamionogra: it DOES12:43
Kamionif you know what the word "respectively" means (which is pretty standard in English developer documentation IME)12:43
ograKamion, if you studied english ....12:43
Kamionif you didn't, you should use a translation of the documentation :)12:43
ograheh, true12:44
thullyBye everyone.  Thanks for all the ACPI work.12:44
=== thully [~thully@70.sub-166-155-152.myvzw.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
ograKamion, i was just a bit logically barred :) 12:44
mdkeman pages aren't supposed to be easy to understand ;)12:45
zulheh..we got into this arguemnet at work yeserday12:46
ogramdke, if i have slept enough and didnt drink half a bottle of wine before reading them, i normally understand what they say :)12:46
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mdkeogra, if you finish the bottle, you'll understand em12:47
ogramdke, i'm near...12:47
=== zenwhen [zenwhen@h-67-102-63-103.phlapafg.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamion       Die Funktion strcmp() vergleicht die beiden Strings s1 und s2 miteinan12:48
Kamion       der. Sie gibt eine ganze Zahl kleiner,  gleich  oder  grer  als  Null12:48
Kamion       zurck,  wenn  s1 gefunden wurde und kleiner, gleich oder grer als s212:48
Kamion       ist.12:48
ograKamion, yup, i already understood it ( xscreensaver is uploaded already) ;) but still the above i said would be an easier explanation12:50
ograeven in german12:51
KamionI'm just resentful that people keep trying to blame unclear writing on the documentation format :P12:52
dholbachadd dates here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Calendar :-)12:52
zulKamion: heh then you dont want to work with the people i work with ;)12:52
thomKamion: heh12:53
ograKamion, i know its my fault if i dont understand a man page in the firtst place, but one could make i easier for drunken people ;)12:53
jdubgooooooood morning freedom lovers!12:53
dholbachhey jdub 12:53
ogramorning jdub 12:53
Kamionwriting documentation that's clear to drunken non-native speakers is, er, a challenge in general ;)12:54
Kamionanyhow, gotta go12:54
zulhe jdub12:54
dholbachbye Kamion 12:54
dholbachjdub: may i point you to wiki/Calendar and invite you to the MOTU Meeting? :-)12:54
jdubheh, that's not such a great time for me ;)12:55
jdubbut possibly12:55
ograjdub, we'd like to discuss some release manager related things there12:56
=== dholbach finds xscreensaver in the updates... :-)
mdkehas anyone got a menu editing frontend in universe yet?12:58
ograjdub, btw, xscreensaver uploaded, objections go to my place...12:58
dholbachmdke: ask Amaranth 12:58
jdubogra: ah cool, thanks12:58
AmaranthI sort of do.12:58
mdkedholbach, oooh that's already a partly positive answer12:58
mdkeAmaranth, yay#12:58
AmaranthI need help with the menu spec before I can go any further with it.12:58
mdkeis that the one posted on the forum12:59
Amaranthone of them12:59
Amaranthcheck the screenshot in that dir12:59
mdkeyeah looks pretty cool12:59
mdkeis it systemwide or userwide?12:59
Amaranthi'm working on user ones right now12:59
mdkethanks very much on behalf of us all01:00
Amaranthi can make new entries show up just fine but i should be able to override system ones with user ones (so you can 'change' the users ones) but it isn't working01:00
mdkeAmaranth, maybe it is a limitation with gnome01:00
Amarantherr, so you can 'change' the system ones01:00
Amaranthi'm starting to think so01:00
mdkeis it packaged? i can't help you out but I can test if you like01:01
Amaranthwell, no, because it doesn't work in python-xdg either01:01
Amaranthno, no packages yet01:01
Amaranthi want to get this fixed and allow deleting entries first01:01
mdkeyou seen that guide on the gnome site about how to do it manually?01:02
AmaranthI've been looking01:04
mdkei copied it onto our wiki01:04
mdkesomeone posted it in bugzilla01:05
Amaranththat's old01:06
Amaranththat's vfolder junk01:06
mdkedoesn't work?01:06
=== mdke scraps wiki page
zenwhenAmaranth, your current menu editor has made my day01:06
Amaranththe new one will work without root and have a delete button :P01:07
zenwhenmy menus now contain a lot of things they should have01:07
Amaranthif it ever gets released01:07
zenwhensounds nice01:07
srbakeris anyone else here experiencing 'issues' with icons in gnome?01:08
srbakerwhen i install software, the icons aren't recognized until after i log out and log in, often.01:08
srbakerit's not really reproducable because it's not consistent01:09
Amaranthsrbaker: you mean on the menus?01:10
mdkenormal surely?01:10
mdkekillall gnome-panel will do it01:10
Amaranththe menus are funny01:10
srbakerAmaranth, yeah01:10
Amaranthsometimes you need to kill the panel to make changes work, sometimes you don't01:10
srbakerthat's weird01:10
srbakerwhat's the green dot that a lot of people seem to have in their panels?01:11
Amaranthdo you have a screenshot?01:11
srbakerthird from the left01:12
srbakeris that what that is?01:13
srbakerupdate manager?01:13
srbakeri installed update-manager and update-notify but i can't seem to get the panel applet, either01:13
srbakerbut i haven't fucked around with that yet01:13
Amaranththe notification icon only shows up when you have upgrades01:14
thomsrbaker: it's gossip01:14
srbakerthom, what's gossip?01:14
srbakeroh, the icon01:14
jdubsrbaker: you do need to ensure that update-notifier is running in your session01:17
srbakerjdub, i haven't logged out and logged in since i installed it01:17
jdubso run it :)01:17
jdubaha, good, kubuntu on slashdot01:18
jdubha ha ark linux01:19
Amaranthisn't ark based on debian too?01:19
mdkeAmaranth, is it cool if I post your menu editor on that wiki page (have removed vfolder stuff)01:19
Amaranthmdke: sure01:19
=== ogra [~ogra@p5089E0D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Amaranthyou put it on first, then asked for permission :P01:21
jdub"Before people go like "Why doesn't Canonical make one cd with both KDE and Gnome?", let me put it this way: the same reason why they don't make one big DVD like Fedora."01:21
jdub^ ha ha01:21
mdkeAmaranth, i asked for permission, then saved the page01:21
Amaranthi refreshed right away and i guess i got in right after your save01:21
Amaranthjdub: someone said something about a DVD01:21
Amaranthsaid they wanted more apps01:21
jdubwe're already building DVDs01:21
srbakerjdub, isn't ubuntu with gnome only hard enough to fit on one cd?01:21
mdkeAmaranth, yeah i saw that01:22
mdzdaniels: me: "is this the same bug, or a different bug?" you: "yeah" -- which one?01:22
jdubsrbaker: not enormously hard, but it is getting harder.01:22
Amaranthdoes anyone here know anything about the fd.o menu spec?01:22
srbakerjdub, i am very impressed that ubuntu fit on one cd01:23
Amaranthi swear they intentionally made it hard...01:23
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azeem_"it'll always be 1 CD" -- James Troup01:25
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jdubazeem_: that's the intention, yes01:27
thommdz: popcon is waiting on me getting it cronned up and happy, then i'll announce it01:28
danielsmdz: erk.  yeah -> same.01:28
mdzdaniels: cool, thanks01:29
mdzthom: ETA?01:29
thommdz: monday01:29
ograso could someone tell me why my laptop just shot down unintentionally ?01:32
ograi'm not amused, lost a lot of unsaved stuff....it happend out of the blue...01:33
dholbachogra: syslog?01:34
=== Amaranth rips into kmenuedit
ogradholbach, nothing01:34
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ograMar 20 01:25:18 localhost kernel: psmouse.c: TouchPad at isa0060/serio4/input0 lost sync at byte 101:35
ograMar 20 01:25:18 localhost last message repeated 4 times01:35
ograMar 20 01:25:18 localhost kernel: psmouse.c: TouchPad at isa0060/serio4/input0 - driver resynched.01:35
ograMar 20 01:25:18 localhost kernel: psmouse.c: TouchPad at isa0060/serio4/input0 lost sync at byte 401:35
ograzul ideas ? looks like the kernel01:35
ograin fact there seem to be a lot of these messages01:36
zulwhen did it first start?01:36
dholbachogra: you flew out 1:17 of my time01:36
srbakerupdate-notifier is running, but i don't seem to be getting a desktop icon for it01:37
srbakerjdub, what's the "gnome way" of notifying other applications of something?01:37
ogradholbach, 1:37 here now...01:37
ogradholbach, does that match ?01:37
dholbachogra: yeah01:37
srbakerjdub, i've been thinking about doinga Growl compatible client for Gnome (growl.info)01:37
srbakerit's for user notification01:37
ograar 20 01:17:58 localhost kernel: ext3_orphan_cleanup: deleting unreferenced inode 73421401:38
ograMar 20 01:17:58 localhost kernel: ext3_orphan_cleanup: deleting unreferenced inode 132201501:38
ograMar 20 01:17:58 localhost kernel: ext3_orphan_cleanup: deleting unreferenced inode 132193301:38
Amaranthheh, kmenuedit doesn't work either01:38
Amaranthi'm calling this what i'm almost positive it is now: a gnome-menus bug01:39
ograWHAT ????01:39
ograMar 20 01:16:31 localhost shutdown[21527] : shutting down for system halt01:39
=== ogra cant belive that
jdubsrbaker: there's no blessed system yet01:40
srbakerjdub, would something that's Growl compatible be appreciated, or are there more gnomeish ways to accomplish this?01:40
jdubit's a huge discussion with no good answer for you01:41
srbakerso if i just ran out and wrote it, it might be a good idea01:42
jdubcould be01:42
srbakeri kinda want a growl compatible system for other software i'm using anyways.01:42
lupusBEjdub, how long does it take for packages to be in http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/g/ ?01:43
jdubi'm not sure01:44
lupusBEand why have a changelog file for every release? 01:45
thomlupusBE: happens every 12 hours01:45
thomum, howelse would you do it?01:45
lupusBEyeah I'm testing update-manager and so I was wondering :)01:45
lupusBEjust the latest changelog and a regular expression to get the right changelog :)01:46
tsengjdub: BEAGLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!01:47
lupusBEI would only show the difference between the current installed one and the latest01:47
jdubtseng: ssssshhhh01:47
thomlupusBE: can't work (same changelog and regex) think about security point releases01:48
zultseng: are you running with inotify on or off?01:48
zulok just curious01:48
lupusBEic thom 01:49
lupusBEthe only really missing thing is that update-manager does not show the current installed version of the package01:49
lupusBEbut maybe that is just my personal taste :)01:50
thomno reason why it should is there?01:50
lupusBEa option to turn this info on would be kind of nice tho :)01:50
lupusBElike I said :) personal taste :p01:51
lupusBEso the only real bugger is that changes are placed on the server after 12 hours01:51
lupusBEI mean every 12 hours :)01:52
lupusBEcan't be done when a packages is put in the repository?01:52
srbakeranyone know fo a gnome app for writing docbook?01:52
zulcheck google01:53
danielsjdub: beagle!01:53
zuljdub: pssst....ok01:54
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=== ogra is realy frustrated and goes to bed now, lost more then half of his work because his laptop shot down out of the blue with no cognizable reason....
ogranight all :(02:01
exarkunhey all.  I hope this is not an inappropriate forum for this question, but I was wondering about having Python's bsddb module linked against libdb4.3 instead of libdb4.2.  Anyone looked into this?02:03
exarkunneed to take off, but if anyone knows the answer my client will be logging, and I will appreciate it :)  ubuntu has been really awesome so far for me, by the way :)02:06
dholbachgood night everyone02:20
crimsunnight daniel02:20
dholbachnight daniel :-)02:21
Amaranthi give up02:23
Amaranthsomeone else can make a menu editor02:24
ajmitchAmaranth: that bad, is it?02:24
ajmitchAmaranth: I'd love to, if you can find me the spare time ;)02:25
Amaranthajmitch: It's horrible. Shitty docs, gnome-menus bugs, etc, etc, etc.02:25
ajmitchthat's all part of what makes programming fun02:25
AmaranthThe problem is I'm going that exact same thing kmenuedit is doing and gnome-menus ignores both of us. So I think gnome-menus doesn't even support what I need.02:26
srbakerjdub, i suppose if i wrote said notification program in ruby, it's not as likely to get accepted, right?02:31
srbakerjdub, python is probably the best choice if i want the "gnome community" to use it?02:31
jdubsrbaker: gnome and ubuntu, yeah02:31
srbakeri'm working on it now02:34
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srbakerjdub, this is going to be less work than i thought.  there are Python, PHP, and Ruby implementations of the protocol for *notifying* to growl.02:41
srbakerjdub, a growl server will be easy as pie02:41
Amaranthanyone know if seb gets on IRC on the weekends?02:43
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zenlolwhy are the iso mirrors so slow02:50
crimsunzenlol: can't use bittorrent?02:53
mdzzenlol: because a lot of people are downloading kubuntu02:53
mdzthe torrents should be much faster02:54
danielsisn't galago the notification stack of choice these days?02:54
wasabimdz, whoops. I woulda not sent you an email and just pung you here if i had seen ya. ;)02:55
zenlolare there torrents for the daily installs02:55
mdzwasabi: I'm hiding; I'm off-duty ;-)02:55
mdzzenlol: no, not yet02:55
zenloli am totally over here on abroadband connection just to get a new daily image and cant ;_;02:55
wasabithen don't read your email!02:55
zenlolat least kub is getting some exposure02:56
jdublamont: around?02:57
jdubhow is the DVD image size going now that we've beefed up main so significantly?02:57
zenloloh is there going to be a kde/gnome dvd now?02:57
tsengzenlol: a dvd w/ all of main02:58
lamontjdub: dunno02:58
jdubzenlol: we've had DVD images throughout hoary02:58
zenloloh wow02:58
zenlolhow did I miss this?02:58
lamontjdub: but they're all of supported, not all of main.  or something like that02:58
tsenglast weeks was ~3gb iirc02:58
lamontzenlol: cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/weekly-dvd/...02:58
zenloloh cool02:59
jdublamont: oh, so we're now distinguishing between "ubuntu supported seed" and "main, the combination of kubuntu and ubuntu seeds"?02:59
wasabipoor folks. one of these days I'm going to unload Eclipse on you and blow your dvd out of the water. =/03:00
lamontjdub: there's no boot foo to distinguish which you weant..03:00
lamontreally a Kamion question though03:00
jdublamont: no, i just mean contents of CD, not what it chooses to install03:01
lamonta dvd with either the union of {kubuntu,ubuntu}-supported, or with all of main, would be good.03:01
lamontjdub: exactly03:01
lamontthe generation process is currently driven by the seeds, IIUC03:01
jdubright, so it's not currently all of main?03:02
lamonthence there's an ubuntu dvd and a kubuntu dvd03:02
lamontthat is my understanding.03:02
lamonthaven't actually looked though03:02
lamontISTR Kamion telling me that when I was asking03:02
mdzjdub: feel free to forward the google thing to sounder if you feel it's appropriate03:03
mdzjdub: I don't like to be too competitive there ;-)03:03
tsengwasabi: hah, like Eclipse will ever be in main03:03
mdztseng: it will03:03
jdubmdz: woos ;)03:04
tsengmdz: do we have a free java solution?03:04
wasabitseng, I am *so close*03:04
tsenghm, neat03:04
wasabiI have it running in GCJ right now.03:04
mdztseng: yes, several03:04
wasabiJust a matter of knocking down packages in multiverse.03:05
wasabiThere are Eclipse packages on mentors.debian.net if you wnat to try them out.03:05
mdzjdub: the DVD has always corresponded to supported via germinate; it's only recently that main and ubuntu-supported have diverged03:05
lamontwhere does extra wind up?  universe?03:06
Amaranthis gcc 4.0 out?03:08
lamontAmaranth: given the -0pre6ubuntu6 version in our archive, I'd say not unless it's been in the last day or 203:09
Amaranththink it'll make it in time for hoary+1?03:09
lamont/usr/bin/ld: BFD 2.15 assertion fail ../../bfd/elflink.c:608103:11
lamontwell, the pre6 packages are in main in hoary...03:11
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Amarantherr, prerelease software is in main?03:21
mdzlamont: extra winds up in universe, yes03:24
jdubmdz: is ntpdate enabled on the livecd?03:46
mdzjdub: yep03:47
jdubwe should so get rid of desktop-base03:53
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jdubmdz: can push desktop-base from depends to recommends in gnome-session?03:55
calcAmaranth: gcc 4.0 should be out relatively soon, fedora is based on it03:59
calcAmaranth: so its likely to be out by may04:00
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mdzjdub: interesting; I didn't know about desktop-base04:04
mdzjdub: should we use the same alternatives that it does for the artwork?04:04
mdz(not for hoary, obviously)04:04
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jdubmdz: possibly, though i think our plan at mataro was more flexible04:12
Amaranthwere is seb when you need him? :)04:19
Amaranthhe seems to do the only one i've talked to that has a clue as to how the new menus work04:19
calcAmaranth: how fdo menus work, or what?04:21
calci know :)04:21
calcits a s3kr1704:22
Amaranthtranslation? :P04:22
jdubhave you read the spec?04:22
calcAmaranth: secret04:22
Amaranthmany times04:22
danielsjdub: some implementation details (particularly to do with merging) can be very hairy, to be fair04:22
calcAmaranth: so what questions do you have04:23
Amaranthdaniels: _very_04:23
AmaranthOk, if I create new entries in ~/.local/share/applications it all works good and they show up in the menu04:23
jdubdaniels: good first question though :)04:23
AmaranthHowever if I create testingthis.desktop in the user dir and the system dir it always uses the system one even though seb said it shouldn't.04:24
jdub"you must be as smart as this stick to use the internet"04:24
jdub"and/or smarter"04:24
AmaranthI've tried toying with <MergeFile> and etc and I get nothing04:24
calcAmaranth: is it in the same subdir?04:24
jdubwhat's the order of inclusion of local dirs?04:24
lamontjdub: "you must be this tall to use signals"04:24
calcAmaranth: yea it should use the user one as an override04:24
AmaranthI have testingthis.desktop in ~/.local/share/applications and /usr/share/applications04:25
Amaranththe user one just has a different comment04:25
calchmm ok04:25
=== calc tests it
AmaranthOnce I figure this out I can release 0.2 of my editor. :)04:25
Amaranthkmenuedit sets things up the same way I do so I'm lost.04:25
jdubyeah, i can reproduce that04:27
jdubmove the file to a different name, get the entry04:27
jdubsame name, it uses the system entry04:27
Amaranthfilename or Name?04:28
jdublooks like a nice bug in gnome-menus04:28
jdubi'm reproducing what you said :)04:28
calcyou should be able to use the same filename with hidden attribute to delete entries as well04:28
calcnot sure if you noticed that already Amaranth 04:28
Amaranthso if i created my entries with a prefix they'd show up?04:28
jdubhrm, i haven't put any information to override it though04:29
calcAmaranth: in gnome as long as the filename isn't exactly the same it shows the one in ~/.local04:29
calcit should be overriding it though with the same filename in ~/.local04:29
jdubit should automagically override it, just because it has the same name?04:30
AmaranthYeah, the same Name04:30
calcjdub: the same filename04:30
calcnot based on "Name: "04:30
Amarantherr, it shouldn't do it based on Name?04:30
jdubcalc: mmm, that's what i meant. bad context. :)04:30
AmaranthIt should do it on filename and Name, iirc.04:31
calcAmaranth: i'm not sure if its really even stated in the spec04:31
jdubName is too hard -> translation04:31
calcbut kde at least does it off the filename alone04:31
AmaranthIt does it based on Name now, doesn't it?04:31
AmaranthOr does it produce a totally new entry?04:31
=== Amaranth tests
calcso if you had two things with the same "Name=" but filenames are different and they go in different parts of the menu then gnome squashes them?04:32
calcAmaranth: doesn't seem to help having the same "Name= "04:32
Amaranthyeah, this is screwed04:33
Amaranthi think gnome-menus is doing the cascade backwards04:33
calcso the next question is it screwed generally or something broken in just the ubuntu version04:33
Amaranthall my testers have been hoary users :/04:34
danielsAmaranth: there've been a few threads on xdg lately about merge order -- maybe it's worth hitting the archives04:34
Amaranthi've been looking all over for something like that04:34
=== Safari_Al [~tr@ppp248-98.lns2.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
calchttp://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2005-March/006227.html <- nice email04:42
calcunrelated to what you are looking for though04:42
tsengjdub: oh hey i forgot to mention this04:52
tsengjdub: libgmime-cil seems to be missing dep on libgmime2.1, minor showstopper for beageld04:52
wasabithat post makes me want to start mailing .desktops to people just to prove a point04:53
Amaranthwasabi: hehe05:01
wasabiWhy can't we just have a .desktop file LINK05:01
wasabi[Desktop File Thing] 05:01
=== Amaranth tries to figure out wtf is going on with gnome-menus
jdubtseng: bizaare05:02
=== jdub fixes
tsengjdub: rock on, dude.05:03
jdubmight check there's a new gmime too05:03
jdubooh, there is05:03
calci read through the list05:06
calcAmaranth: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2005-March/006278.html05:06
calcthat seems to be the post daniels was talking about05:06
calci didn't look at the gnome menu code but the email almost makes it sound like it does treat the home dir as lower priority than the global dir05:07
calcwhich is backwards of what it should be05:07
Amarantherr, shit05:07
Amaranthyeah, that's what i'm reading too05:07
calcso i guess you'll have to beat on the gnome menu maintainer/author05:08
Amaranthi can't read enough C to figure out where that even happens in gnome-menus05:08
calcwhat package is gnome-menus in?05:08
Amaranthgnome-menus :P05:08
jdubgnome-menus :)05:08
Amaranthmaybe you could get a patch into hoary at least?05:08
=== calc sees if he can understand it
wasabiWOw this Exec thing frightens me.05:09
Amaranthi don't speak glib either so most of it is nonsense to me without looking up something in the manual every other line05:09
wasabiI swear, if I ever have to clean up a linux email virus at work, I will shoot somebody.05:09
crimsunget your gun ready05:09
Amaranththe original infected source could wget from the evil guys box (probably still someone else's 0wned box) then when it spreads it it could have it's children wget from itself05:11
Amaranththat'd be a bitch to track05:11
=== calc is confused
wasabiAmaranth, it'd be like every windows virus ever.05:11
calcthe only places where "XDG" is even mentioned in gnome-menus is comments05:11
Amaranthwasabi: Yeah.05:11
calcso how does it even check the env var?05:11
Amaranthcalc: I think the panel calls it with that stuff. :/05:11
calclooks like you'll need to email Mark McLoughlin and Havoc05:12
calcthey are the two people listed in authors05:12
=== Amaranth pokes void desktop_entry_set_intersection (DesktopEntrySet *set, DesktopEntrySet *with)
Amaranthwow, that was nice05:13
Amaranthi clicked the open button on the gedit toolbar and it crashed05:14
calci managed to make the kernel crash by trying to eject a cdrom from nautilus :)05:15
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=== Amaranth wonders why gnome-menus seems to have a framework for building an editor
Amaranthoh, nevermind05:24
Amaranthnice, gnome-menus doesn't handle <MergeFile> recursion05:25
calcso does it leave that to a higher level?05:25
calcor just ignore it completely05:25
Amaranthignores it05:25
Amaranthnice little FIXME comment05:25
Amaranthmine if i paste it? it's 6 lines05:25
zenlollooks like I wont be getting a new hoary image tonight05:26
AmaranthFIXME * if someone does <MergeFile>A.menu</MergeFile> inside A.menu, or a more elaborate loop involving multiple files, we'll just get really hosed and eat all the RAM we can find05:26
zenloli hate slashdot with the fire of a thousand suns05:27
calcAmaranth: ah i misread what you said as it doesn't handle mergefiles at all :)05:27
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Amaranthi wonder if i can do some XDG_DATA_DIRS trickery to make this work05:29
wasabiGreat. I just wrote my virus. =/05:31
=== wasabi contribues to conversation.
calcAmaranth: just use kubuntu ;)05:31
Amaranthmeh, i don't like kde05:31
Amaranthi've managed to complete hose my menu, nice05:34
lamontmdz: ppc has Total 345 package(s) in state Needs-Build, all others have no needs-build05:34
lamont(hoary-test, that is)05:34
zenlolAmaranth, so your tool in its current state is dangerous?05:34
Amaranthzenlol: not the copy you have, no05:34
zenloloh ok 05:34
zenloli dont know how I am going to get caught up with hoary now05:35
zenlolI suppose I will have to come up here again tomorrow05:36
Amaranthi can get one set of menus or the other, can't make it give me both05:37
Amaranthok, i've completely wiped my menus and i don't know how to get them back :P05:39
Amaranthtime to end this session05:39
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calcwasabi: distribute it to people now :)05:43
wasabicalc, i have some pics of natalie portman for you!05:43
wasabiActually, I have it working.05:44
wasabiI'm just now putting the finishing touches on it, making it grep ~/.evolution for email addresses. ;)05:44
calcbtw i think gnome in hoary doesn't update its desktop until you logout for some reason05:44
zulhey fabbione 05:44
calcis gamin broken?05:44
calchmm now it works05:44
calcit wasn't working earlier :\05:44
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Amaranthcalc: Sometimes it updates, sometimes it doesn't05:51
Amaranthcalc: Same with the menus05:51
calcsounds great :\05:52
Amaranthit doesn't help that killing gnome-panel breaks gaim and rhythmbox05:52
Amaranthmy user override is working now05:52
calcwhat did you do to it?05:53
Amaranthrestarted my session05:53
Amaranthlogged out and back in05:53
calcthats fucked up05:53
calcit can see it if named something different, but not if its named the same?05:53
calcuntil you log out i mean05:53
Amaranthit must not even check the name, just the id05:54
calciirc kde did need its cache rebuilt for it to work05:54
calcnot sure if there is something similiar on gnome to run05:54
calcrunning kbuildsycoca would fix it under kde05:54
Amaranthheh, no wonder kmenuedit runs that so much05:54
Amaranthwoo, now i can release 0.2 tonight05:55
calcso you just have to tell the user to log out to see the changes ;)05:55
tsumethres something wrong :)05:56
tsumesshd isn't listening on 127.105:56
Amaranthso i can set Hidden in .desktop file to remove it from the menu?05:56
AmaranthIf that works it's GNOME specific.05:56
calcerm i am pretty sure that worked under KDE when i was building menu-xdg05:57
calcdoes it not work anymore?05:57
calcyea or whatever the syntax is05:57
Amaranthmight be a KDE only thing05:57
calcwell it should work in both05:58
calcsince it should use the users file logically05:58
calcand if the users file is marked as Hidden then it should not show anything05:58
Amaranththis is really screwed up05:58
Amaranthtestingthis.desktop is using the user version, gcalctool.desktop isn't05:58
calcyea Hidden only exists specifically for the reason i mentioned above05:59
calc"Hidden should have been called Deleted. It means the user deleted (at his level) something that was present (at an upper level, e.g. in the system dirs). It's strictly equivalent to the .desktop file not existing at all, as far as that user is concerned. This can also be used to "uninstall" existing files (e.g. due to a renaming) - by letting make install install a file with Hidden=true in it."05:59
calcso if it doesn't work in both gnome/kde then its a bug in the desktop06:00
calcerm menu parsing code (desktop is ambigious as to .desktop or DE)06:00
Amaranthhey, it works06:01
Amaranthwhere did you paste that from?06:01
calcdesktop entry spec06:02
calcthe section that lists the sections of a .desktop file06:03
Amaranthwoo, my delete button works now06:07
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=== Topic for #kubuntu: Preview Released http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/ | Feedback please: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuPreviewComments
=== Topic (#kubuntu): set by Riddell at Fri Mar 18 04:20:54 2005
=== warthylog [~warthylog@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-love for getting involved | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryGoals | Kubuntu on #kubuntu-devel | Hoary preview release: http://releases.ubuntu.com/hoary/ | Release Candidate: March 30th
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by Kamion at Thu Mar 17 19:02:59 2005
=== Amaranth [~travis@ip68-229-188-97.om.om.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Amaranthwell, it more or less works :P06:23
Amaranthbuggy as hell, i blame gnome-menus06:23
Amaranthnope, can't blame gnome-menus06:26
Amaranthwtf is wrong with this thing. i've checked and python-xdg and it's cascading correctly (based on what paths it uses, anyway) but user overrides still don't work06:27
Amarantherr, checked with python-xdg06:27
zulright im off to bed...06:29
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srbakercan someone here recommend a good test runner script?06:48
srbakeri like Ruby's default Rakefile that runs all of the tests under test/ 06:48
Amaranthwhy oh why did i subscribe to ubuntu-users?06:49
crimsunyou like the deluge, eh?06:50
Amaranthit's odd, gmail is applying ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-users labels to some mails06:51
Amaranthi wonder if it got forwarded between the two06:52
mdzlamont: that includes universe?06:54
crimsunoh my, no wonder I haven't been able to set my-id07:59
sabmocWhere do we submit art for the the Mascot Competition? 08:01
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dholbachgoooood morning08:11
=== Amaranth needs guinea pigs
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jdubsabmoc: it says in the announce email08:29
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tritiumAmaranth, for what, your menu editor?08:30
Amaranthtritium: yeah08:30
tritiumthat's great that you did that :)08:31
Amaranthtry it :)08:32
tritiumAmaranth, I'll take a look at it.08:32
jdubtseng: ha ha, libdbus-cil doesn't depend on dbus-108:37
whiprushhey jdub, was the work I did tonite even handy at all? Or did I miss the bus completely?08:38
jdubwhiprush: tseng said you had modified scherger's beagle packages, which were... not good. did any of the arslinux crew do gsf-sharp stuff, etc?08:39
sabmoczmog! sorry jdub, had only 4hours sleep today08:40
schweebwhiprush: you finish them?  I'm back now08:40
whiprushwell, I did both. I did my own from scratch and did a set based on scherger's packages. scherger's were crack though.08:40
jdubwhiprush: (i've been maintaining beagle packages since 0.0.2 locally, they've just never been usefully releaseable.)08:40
whiprushI'm sure between schweeb, metallikop, and myself that we could crank out the gsf one's pretty easily.08:41
schweebtomorrow morning (afternoon) I could help crank something out08:41
sabmocAre any Ubuntu-dev's Canadian?  08:41
whiprushIf you don't plan on doing them then we could do them tomorrow pretty easily I'm sure.08:41
schweebgot a couple beers in me, so as soon as I pass out, I'll be out like a rock08:41
jdubschweeb: jbailey is canadian08:41
jdubwhiprush: go for it :)08:42
jdubwe have08:42
whiprushon it.08:42
jdub        Evolution-Sharp?        yes08:42
jdub        gsf-sharp?              no08:42
jdub        gst-sharp?              no08:42
jdub        Epiphany Extension?     no (missing dependencies)08:42
jdub        Mozilla Extension?      yes08:42
jdub        wv1?                    no08:42
jdub        Enable Network          no08:42
jdubwv1 we won't do, because we only ship wv208:42
sabmocjbailey, https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CanadianTeam08:42
jdub(i don't get why they use 1, might be worth a poatch to support 2)08:42
dholbachjdub: wv?08:42
jdubit wants epiphany 1.2, not 1.608:42
jdubdholbach: wordview library08:43
jdubdholbach: as in msword08:43
dholbachah i see08:43
jdubso really, it's just gsf and gst08:43
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dholbachlucky they depend on a library and not openoffice.org-something-dev :-)08:44
whiprushok, we'll work on gsf. Should have something for you in less than 24 hours. It's sleepy time over here.08:44
jdubsleep is for the week!08:45
jdubmeanwhile, i'm going to upload beagle08:45
sabmocjdub, then I must be the strongest zombie on earth.08:45
jdubneed an elmo08:45
whiprushjdub: tseng had me work this up: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryBeagleRunningHowto08:45
jdubelmo: around?08:45
jduboh man08:45
whiprushit should cover what we need.08:46
jdubanother beagle page on the wiki? :)08:46
whiprushwell, I'm thinking, with an upload this should be the one page.08:46
jdubwould be good to point to beagle wiki08:46
jdubthat gets a lot of eyeballs08:47
whiprushI got that at the bottom08:47
whiprushI could move it up though.08:47
jdubUploading via ftp beagle_0.0.7-0ubuntu1.dsc: done.08:47
jdubUploading via ftp beagle_0.0.7.orig.tar.gz: done.08:47
jdubUploading via ftp beagle_0.0.7-0ubuntu1.diff.gz: done.08:47
jdubUploading via ftp beagle_0.0.7-0ubuntu1_source.changes: done.08:47
jdubSuccessfully uploaded packages.08:47
jdubtseng: ^^^08:47
jdubi'll put it up elsewhere too08:48
whiprushalso ... according to ifolder-dev, the gaim-workgroup plugin is mostly working. Although, it's probaly so post-hoary.08:48
whiprushbut I have a feeling it'll be demoed at brainshare this week.08:48
schweebwhiprush: hah, you gotten ifolder running again, or you still unable to compile?08:49
=== jdub started some ifolder packages a while back, but ifolder was horrifically messy at the time. i think tberman's feedback sorted them out a bit.
whiprushit's all compilable and works and stuff. The problem is that it depends on a novell server. The interesting p2p stuff is still being worked on.08:50
schweeblast time I checked it out of CVS it wouldn't compile08:50
whiprushso it's still rather useless to people without an ifolder server.08:50
whiprushall indications seem to point towards the server portion being closed source. and the p2p stuff being Free.08:51
whiprushthough, according to nat, the p2p stuff should work behind NAT (the other kind of NAT, not the guy) and over local networks using some kind of zeroconf implementation.08:52
dholbachjdub: what's your opinion on  https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7888 ? should that kind of seed change be possible?08:54
jdubdholbach: i don't think that's a problem08:58
jdubdholbach: request a change to mdz/myself08:58
jdubdholbach: hrm, and elmo08:58
dholbachjdub: ok... i'll doublecheck and talk to you three again08:59
dholbachlooks like even libgtkmm2.0-1c102 could be removed from main09:07
sabmocIs Matthias Urlichs ever on IRC?09:08
sabmocdumb question, of course he is, but whats his nick?09:09
jdubsabmoc: smurfix 09:09
smurfixsabmoc: ?09:09
sabmocsmurfix, https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CanadianTeam09:09
sabmocsmurfix, I got your email this morning, read the info on LoCo and wrote a quick page.09:11
sabmocI dont really know if thats how the page should look09:12
smurfixsabmoc: nice. Nicely verbose too ;-)09:12
smurfixsabmoc: It's OK, every team has their own style, as long as the info is there I don't really care.09:13
dholbachjdub, mdz, elmo: i'd like to request seed change, according to https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=788809:13
jdubdholbach: mail dude, mail :-)09:13
froudjdub: did you get the Yelp stuff sorted for enrico and the docteam, so Ubuntu docs show in top level09:13
sabmocsmurfix, cool, so now what? haha09:13
jdubfroud: no, one upstream change required09:14
jdubfroud: i also need packaging changes from docteam, but i'll mail about those09:14
froudwhat is the change and who to speak to, perhaps I can press upstream for it09:14
smurfixsabmoc: You know the answer to that question. ;-)09:15
froudone less fo ryou to do :-)09:15
jdubit's fine, i talk to shaunm every day09:15
sabmocsmurfix, yes, now I go to bed09:15
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froudyeah, shaunm, but he needs kicking09:15
jdubhe's fine09:16
froudnot talk :-)09:16
froudjdub: ok, leave it with you then09:16
jdubsmurfix: do you use de_DE.UTF8@euro on hoary?09:23
jdub(with the utf-8 dash)09:23
smurfixjdub: That depends (I use English strings but everything else German). Why?09:24
jdubsmurfix: just want to know the optimal german locale09:24
jdubwhether it's @euro or not09:25
smurfixjdub: Probably yes09:26
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dholbachsmurfix: what does  locale  say?09:34
dholbachis elmo's mail adress @ubuntu.com ?09:34
jdubdholbach: james.troup@09:36
dholbachjdub: yeah... i wondered, if he was @canonical.com09:36
smurfixdholbach: A weird mix of en_* and de_* -- the way my system is set up is not useful for most other people09:36
dholbachjdub: thanks09:36
dholbachsmurfix: aren't the @euro locales obsolete by now?09:37
bob2dholbach: everyone has both afaik09:37
smurfixdholbach: Umm, let me check09:37
dholbachbob2: hmmm: daniel@bert:~$ grep de_DE /etc/locale.gen09:38
dholbachde_DE.UTF-8 UTF-809:38
dholbachjdub: mail sent09:38
dokokamion: the thing I found is getlocale(3)09:41
dokokamion: oops, gettext(3)09:41
smurfixdholbach: you're right, they end up being identical.09:42
smurfixjdub: so it seems you can drop the @euro. Check /usr/share/i18n/locales/*@euro whether they do anything special.09:43
smurfixjdub: Might make sense to even exclude them from localegen, building two identical locales doesn't help anybody.09:44
smurfixI got thrown off by the date in the locale files, its date says 2000-06-24, which seems wrong, the switch was on 2002-01-0109:47
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dholbachsmurfix: i recall them being in longer than 2002-01-0109:48
bob2dholbach: oh, I mean @ubuntu.com, @canonical.com :-)09:49
dholbachsmurfix: for example: euro-support's initial version is from Sun, 28 Oct 200109:49
dholbachbob2: ah... ok ;-)09:49
smurfixdholbach: Depends on whether you talk stock market, banking, or cash09:49
dholbachsmurfix: we're talking about packages and locales being generated ;-)09:50
smurfixdholbach: (in real-world terms ;-)09:50
smurfixdholbach: Anyway, somebody clearly modified the locale files without updating the timestamp in it.09:51
=== smurfix grumbles.
dholbachbob2: now if the MOTUs get @ubuntu.com mail adresses, the pattern will be out of order :-)09:51
bob2dholbach: hehe, true09:51
ajmitchdholbach: that may happen one day :)09:54
=== ajmitch thinks the release is more important than email addresses ;)
dholbachajmitch: did i complain yet? :-)09:55
Kamionjdub: run away screaming from .UTF-8@euro09:55
dholbachKamion: why not chuck them out? :-)09:55
Kamionjdub: there's a bug open about dropping them; they're totally useless, the only reason it's hard to drop them is that we'd need to figure out how to transition users who are already using them09:56
Kamiondholbach: ^-09:56
dholbachi see09:56
Kamionanyway the non-.UTF-8 @euro locales are still useful, but *.UTF-8 == *.UTF-8@euro09:56
Kamionvarious things (like the upgrade handling in locales, and localechooser) are careful to avoid *.UTF-8@euro09:57
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jdubKamion: eeruuugh10:06
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=== schweeb stabs gsf-sharp
schweebjdub: guess you'll get your gsf-sharp tomorrow, it's 4:20am (5:20am?) here... I'm stuck on a fakeroot issue (I think), and I'm sure whippy's not much further10:20
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jdubschweeb: heh, go to sleep :)10:21
schweeb** (/usr/share/dotnet/bin/mcs/mcs.exe:10949): CRITICAL **: : shared file [/root/.wapi/shared_data-omglaptop-3-0]  open error: Permission denied10:22
schweeb^^^ that makes me sad10:22
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jdubschweeb: dude10:23
schweebthink I should look at some reference mono pkgs, heh10:23
jdubput the following in rules10:24
jdubexport MONO_SHARED_DIR=$(CURDIR)10:24
jdub        rm -rf $(MONO_SHARED_DIR)/.wapi10:24
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schweebjdub: first mono related pkg, heh10:24
schweebcdbs rules, btw... metallikop intro'd me to it the other day10:25
schweebomg <3 that worked10:28
schweebsleepy time, night10:30
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sabmoc|zombieI really need to sign up to the mailing lists11:18
schweebsabmoc|zombie: gmane is nice11:18
sabmoc|zombiehaven't heard of it11:19
schweebmailing list -> NNTP gateway... they archive just about everything11:21
sabmoc|zombieschweeb, do we have a build for it somewhere? I dont see it.11:21
schweebread harder :D11:21
schweebthey archive for you11:21
sabmoc|zombieoh, I havnet even looked at the url, i thought it was an app :)11:22
schweebTo read the mailing lists stored in Gmane, point your news reader to news.gmane.org11:22
sabmoc|zombieok :) thanks11:22
hervegmane just rocks!11:22
=== schweeb notes he chose the wrong mixture of caffeinated soda and beer... more soda than beer = wide awake schweeb at 5:30am
sabmoc|zombieschweeb, sounds like homebrew-redbull11:24
schweebwell, I didn't actually mix them11:27
schweebbut I interspersed them11:27
herveas long as you realize caffeine is a threath to your health...11:28
schweebthese days breathing is a threat to your health11:32
mirakI have a question about sources kernel. When I install kernell tree, I got /usr/src/linux-source-2.6.10/  . Now the kernel is 2.6.10-5 . How can I know what version are the sources ? are the sources exactly the one of 2.6.10-5 ? I don't get how it works11:33
mirakthe best solution I have found is to us the headers instead of the kernel sources to be sure I will compile modules against the good sources11:34
mirakI got no answer in the other chan, so I ask there, sorry11:34
schweebwhat are you trying to accomplish?  compiling a module, or compiling a kernel?  to compile a module, I think the general practice /is/ to compile against the headers for your running kernel11:35
mirakI want to compile kqemu11:36
mirakwich need to be linked I think11:36
mirakok thanks11:36
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sabmoc|zombieholy crap thats a lot of mail11:45
_d4vidhi all11:49
sabmoc|zombiehello _d4vid 11:49
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pittiHi folks12:19
dholbachhey pitti12:19
jdubmorning pitti 12:19
pittiHi dholbach, jdub, what's up?12:20
jdubour distrowatch position12:20
jdubbut that happens every morning12:20
dholbachpitti: working on the next motu report12:20
ograhi pitti12:20
jdubdholbach: remember this email address... ubuntu-news@lists.ubuntu.com12:20
jdubwho here likes xfce?12:21
jdubanyone on the motu team mention xfce?12:21
dholbachjdub: crimsun does :-)12:21
Treenaksjdub: I like it, but only on machines with <128M memory12:21
hervejdub, don't tell me you trust distrowatch :-)12:21
jdubdholbach: oh, of course!12:21
Treenaks(of which I don't have any, atm)12:21
jdubherve: i trust it, for the data it provides12:22
dholbachjdub: can everyone post on ubuntu-news?12:22
jdubit's moderated12:23
danielstseng: do we have beagle love yet?12:25
danielsjdub: yeah, libdbus-cil needs to depend on dbus-glib-1-dev12:25
jdubdaniels: i uploaded it a little while ago12:25
danielsjdub: you uploaded gmime, yeah, but did you upload dbus?12:26
danielser, dbus-mono12:26
jdububuntu's highest ever hits on distrowatch was 201212:26
ogramore then 3000 ?? 12:26
Treenaksjdub: wait for hoary final12:26
jdubkubuntu's, with only two days of stats, was 300612:27
jdubday 1: 3006, day 2: 150812:27
ograany statistics about the highest value ever on distrowatch ?12:27
danielsjdub: scorchio!12:27
ograi would bet we passed it....12:28
jdubogra: one sec12:28
jdubholy crap12:32
jdubtop five12:33
jdubknoppix: 292112:33
jdubkubuntu: 300612:33
jdububuntu: 301212:33
jdubslackware: 355112:33
jdubfedora: 420112:33
danielsi wouldn't think they would've gotten that high12:33
jdubstats will be interesting at hoary release12:33
ograwe'll pass 4000, i'm sure12:34
=== ogra bets five random bugfixes on that
smurfixjdub: Do these numbers have dates?12:35
jdubsmurfix: these numbers are "ever"12:35
jdubi can probably put a date to a number12:35
smurfixjdub: that's what I meant12:35
danielsogra: if those fixes are all to X, you're on12:36
ogradaniels, word ;)12:36
danielsor maybe 3 to xorg and 2 to mozilla-firefox12:36
danielsi think thomarse needs a break12:36
ograi'm sure i wouldnt have to solve them :)12:37
ograsince we will pass fedora by far12:37
jdub132 days ago12:37
jdubFC3 release12:37
BurgundaviaFC4 looks to be more breakage12:39
Burgundavianow that RHEL4 is out the door12:39
Burgundaviathe engineers at RH are going to play12:39
Goshawkplease can someone update this page ? --> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/USplash12:42
Goshawkthere is a link that is outdated12:42
jdubGoshawk: the wiki is designed such that you can update the page12:42
Goshawkjdub, i'm trying to do that12:43
Goshawkcan i use the same account of the ubuntu forum?12:43
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obe1anyone ever use the iconv() functions of the GNU libc library?12:51
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pittihm, my swsusp experiment was horrible...12:59
ograpitti, :(01:02
pittiogra: going to sleep worked pretty well, but the screen went black on resume01:03
pittiogra: does it work for you?01:03
ogranope not at all...01:03
ograonly hibernate works here01:03
pittierm, isn't hibernate == swsusp?01:04
danielspitti: sounds like a gtk bug to me01:04
ograut thats caused by the fact that i have no key sending events (acer laptops only send keycodes from the suspend button)01:04
pittidaniels: of course :-)01:04
ograpitti, hibernate = suspend to disk.....01:04
pittiyeah, that was my impression01:04
ograwith a shutdown in the end01:04
pittiogra: you use the hibernate package?01:05
ograand resume on boot01:05
pittiogra: or does your gdm actually offer hibernate?01:05
pittiI only ever got it offered on the live cd, which is kind of pointless :-)01:05
ogramy gnome-session offers it on logout01:05
pittiso I did "echo disk | sudo tee /sys/power/status"01:05
tsengi only see it when pressing f10 in the username box01:05
tsengin gdm.01:06
tsengits not an icon.01:06
pittianyway, with init=/bin/bash, it doesn't even go to sleep01:06
pittiand with a normal boot I get a black screen :-(01:06
pittiwell, at least suspend to ram works fine01:07
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ogramorning thom 01:17
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danielsogra: itym 'afternoon'01:31
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mjg59daniels: Around?01:46
danielsmjg59: of course not01:50
danielsmjg59: whattup?01:50
crimsunuh oh, it's the daniels ghost01:50
mjg59daniels: So, I have these laptops01:51
danielsmjg59: are you going to send them to me?01:51
mjg59Pressing the external video out key switches on the CRT output, but doesn't connect any pipes01:51
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danielsmjg59: hm01:52
danielsmjg59: so i8xx01:53
mjg59What magic do I need in xorg.conf to say Connect the CRT output to the pipe the LFP is using and get it so the LFP is the default output?01:53
danielsmjg59: i assume the pipes would need to be configured in xorg.conf01:53
mjg59And do this without it noticing that I've told it there's a CRT there and so outputting 800x600 on the LFP because there's no DDC response?01:53
zenwhenare there any estimates on how much traffic went through the cd image server last night because of slashdot?01:54
netdurhey, I have two "silly" things, not sure if I should put in bugzilla (I just registred)01:54
danielsmjg59: Option "MonitorLayout" "LFP+CRT,NONE"01:54
netdur1) KDE add it's apps into Gnome menu01:54
mjg59daniels: Ok, let me give that a go01:54
danielsmjg59: assuming your LFP is on pipe A, which holds true for most i815/i830; else, NONE,LFP+CRT01:54
danielsmjg59: also, Option "DisplayPresence"01:54
netdur2) please add some empty documents (archive.tar, oo.o templates) to ~/Templates01:55
danielsmjg59: er, Option "DevicePresence".  whatever.01:56
netdurshould I use bugzilla for them?01:57
danielsnetdur: for the Templates thing, sure01:57
thomdaniels: #7942, i'm tempted to fix it in firefox anyway01:57
herveif we can vote for bugs, I would vote for that templates thing01:58
herveeven provide a patched package01:58
Kamionpatches are so much more useful than votes that they aren't even on the same scale of usefulness01:59
thomvoting on bugzilla is such a horrible idea02:00
herveyou would consider a revision from a not-even-motu member?02:00
mjg59daniels: Ok, that /almost/ works02:00
KamionMOTU == upload privileges, nothing to do with whether patches would be accepted02:00
mjg59daniels: However, the state is then either both displays on or CRT only on02:01
danielsthom: disable back/forward per default?02:01
danielsthom: iirc that will make the side buttons on mice scroll horizontally, which is confusing02:01
thomdaniels: make horizontal scrolling actually work correctly02:01
danielsmjg59: hm02:01
herveyou talk about a patch, I talk about a n+1 package with templates02:01
herveready to upload02:01
danielsthom: well, as I said, since it's just mapped to buttons, this will fuck up real mice02:01
danielsthom: aiui02:01
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danielsherve: right, and you can put a diff somewhere so that one of the existing motu or core members can review and upload it02:02
herveI'll take a look02:03
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thomdaniels: i think you're misunderstanding, i just want to fix firefox so if people do enable it, it works02:05
netdurbuzilla form is not easy enough to use... what's "Assign To"?02:05
ogramjg59, my laptop recently started to shut down unintentionally.....could this be caused by any of the swsuspend patches ?02:06
mjg59ogra: Under what circumstances? What hardware?02:06
danielsthom: in what sense, 'fix'?  change the default horiz scroll behaviour to actually scrolling as opposed to back/forward, or?02:07
ogramjg59, acer 1520 amd64 02:07
ogramjg59, circumstances: none...it just starts a clean shutdown out of the blue....02:07
danielsthom: right.  the way horiz scroll is implemented, last I checked, was by extra buttons, not an axis.02:08
ogramjg59, nothing the "goiong down for shutdown now..." in the logs 02:08
danielsthom: so the side buttons on mice with them will now be mapped to scroll left/scroll right, as opposed to back and forward02:08
danielsthom: i think keeping those working is more valuable than fixing it for the synaptics people tbh02:08
mjg59ogra: No real chance of it being swsusp02:08
mjg59Could be acpi patches02:08
mjg59What does /var/log/acpid say?02:08
herveogra, warmth trouble?02:08
ogramjg59, it happened several times during last week overnight and i suspected my cat sitting on the powerbutton, but yesterday it happened twice whille i was typing02:09
thommeh meh meh02:09
thomdaniels: ok, understood02:09
helixdoes celso providelo irc?02:09
danielsthom: your call :)02:11
ogramjg59, may i PM you log excerpts...bwt /var/log/acpid isnt user accessible...02:11
mjg59Sure - acpid isn't supposed to be use accessible02:12
danielsfabbione: bah ... ogle is broken in the same way mplayer was02:12
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mjg59daniels: What's the easiest way to add extra options to the default xorg.conf?02:19
mjg59(This can be a hardware specific package)02:19
danielsplaying DVDs over NFS (where you've just done dd if=/dev/hdd of=rza-germany.dvd bs=1M) ... kinda shit02:19
danielsmjg59: you ... what?  er ... no02:20
danielsmjg59: for breezy, there'll be a sweet infrastructure you can hook in to02:20
danielsmjg59: hoary?  you're screwed02:20
Kamionhelix: "cprov", but I'm not sure he ever turns up here02:20
danielsmjg59: just intelligently trash it with an awk script in postinst and then we'll leave it alone until the user explicitly runs dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg02:20
mjg59daniels: It's, uh, somewhat necessary02:20
helixKamion: ok. (he signed my key but I never met him...)02:20
danielsmjg59: ?!?02:20
Kamionhelix: heh. Brazilian Canonical employee02:21
ograhelix, he signed your key ? how is that possible if you never met him...weird02:23
Kamionogra: some people are a bit careless at keysigning parties02:23
ograseems like02:23
helixogra: I was in matar02:23
ograhelix, me too02:23
helixbut my key wasn't on the ksp sheet or anything02:23
helixand I didn't meet him02:23
helixso I'm really quite confused. :)02:24
=== ogra starts to doubt the trustabilty of the web of trust a bit....
helixKamion: yeah, if I'd taken part in the ksp, that would be one thing...02:25
Kamionhelix: weird02:25
Kamionmail him?02:25
helixyeah, just wanted to see if he was on irc first. thanks.02:26
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jdubhelix: oh, hi.02:29
helixhello, jdub :)02:29
mjg59ogra: power.sh isn't the shutdown script02:30
mjg59So, uh, acpid doesn't log the machine being shut down02:30
mjg59Which leaves me confused about what might be doing it02:30
ograwierd...i'll talk to fabbionne tomorrow if it could be a kernel issue and if there is a possibility to track it...i tried the 2.6.11 bk snapshot for two weeks some time ago, there was no such behavior02:34
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ogramjg59, thats why i suspected any of our patches being responsible02:34
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mjg59ogra: But it's a clean shutdown?02:36
mjg59Any chance of setting up process accounting?02:36
ogramjg59, its the same as if i press the powerbutton during a desktop session02:36
ogramjg59, sure, if you explain me how to do that or pint me towards some docs 02:37
mjg59apt-get install pacct02:38
mjg59Sorry, that's not it02:38
mjg59apt-get install acct02:38
mjg59Then after it shuts down, run lastcomm and send me the last bit02:39
ogramjg59, ok, i'll have to wait until it does that again....hopefully not before tonight ;)02:40
mjg59ogra: Heh. Thanks!02:40
ograthanks as well :)02:40
mjg59Man, this machine is so much faster than my X4902:43
danielsmjg59: and four times the weight?02:43
danielsi just want them to make an x40 with some sort of radeon02:43
danielsi mean, having an r480 and an amd64 in there with that form factor02:44
danielsand also running cool and silent02:44
danielswith a 250gb disk02:44
danielsbut it's probably not going to happen02:44
bob2they can have an all metal unobtanium case02:44
mjg59Yeah, massively heavier and worse battery life02:45
mjg59I want to have a 1600x1200 screen that's 10.4" big02:45
mjg59And for it to be less than a kilo02:45
mjg59And have 10 hours of battery life02:45
ograand very very good glasses to see something on this screen ;)02:46
danielsogra: large font sizes02:46
danielsthere's a lot to be said for a large dpi02:46
ogradaniels, tell that to the webdesigners ;)02:46
mjg59r300.sf.net is starting to look good02:47
mjg59Working Quake3 and Tuxracer02:47
danielsmjg59: yeah.  unfortunately someone who knows more about PCIE than me needs to get PCIE GART support going.02:48
jdubmjg59: hmm. interesting.02:49
bob2hm, my x40 screen has developed a few bright white blobs02:52
danielsbob2: yours too?02:53
jduboh dudes02:54
jdubscary stuff02:55
jdubthat's x40 chlamydia02:55
bob2the dell's have a similar problem02:55
bob2except it manifests itself by putting "dell" logos on top of the lid02:55
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_BIJ_hi @ all... 02:56
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Mitariohi everyone02:58
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_BIJ_first of all i got to say that you guys did a great job with the array 7 release of hoary... i've got a little proposal for the console... why not enable completion by default? for example if i write "apt-get install" and press TAB then it should list all possibilities... this can be done by editing the bash.bashrc in the /etc folder... i think this should be implemented by default... what do you guys think about this?03:00
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mjg59I /think/ I've tracked down all the i915GM PCI IDs now03:03
danielsmjg59: feel free to send me a phat patch03:08
mjg59daniels: It's all kernel stuff, X is fine03:10
danielsmjg59: oh, woo03:11
zulyeah woo for you03:11
mjg59W00t. With that, I get working Xv and DRI03:12
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lamontmdz: main only - need to pull the other into the archive before it can build03:33
lamontand when I said ppc 345, it had just grabbed oo.o and oo.o2 :-)  still at 34503:34
exarkunhey all.  I hope this is not an inappropriate forum for this question, but I was wondering about having Python's bsddb module linked against libdb4.3 instead of libdb4.2.  Anyone looked into this?03:36
jbaileysabmoc|zombie: Thanks.  You may want to subscribe to the page on the wiki so that it will email you changes to the page.03:37
_d4vidky all03:39
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ogradaniels, could you give me a hint on this ? https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7658 i suspect i need to add xinerama support to the lock window03:40
ubuner_hello, I am trying to customize the Ubuntu hoary livecd and I remove the original filesystem.cloop, and I use debootstrap to build a new ubuntu in /mnt/ubuntu, and now I want to compress /mnt/ubuntu  become  filesystem.cloop,  I use mkisofs -iso-level 4 -R -U -hide-rr-moved -cache-inodes -no-bak -pad /mnt/ubuntu | nice -5 create_compressed_fs - 65536 > filesystem.cloop03:41
ubuner_ is that a correct way?03:41
danielsogra: damnit, I was going to report that tomorrow, if that's what I think it is :)03:42
danielsogra: and yeah, you need to add Xinerama support03:42
danielsogra: so rather than being at the centre of the display, you need to be at the centre of the primary screen for that display03:42
ograoki, i'll read the docs about that then :)03:42
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danielsogra: i.e. centre on :0.0, not :003:42
ograokay, thanks, thats what i wanted to know :)03:42
danielstime for me to sleep now -- g'night :)03:42
zenwhenoh ok03:42
danielsFriend: usblp0: on fire03:44
danielsJdong: Lol, buggy printer drivers03:44
danielsJdong: It's a humorous catch-all when the USB printer driver doesn't understand the printer03:44
danielsFriend: No, you don't get it.03:44
danielsFriend: It's actually _ON FIRE_03:44
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zenwhendaniels, isnt that a really old joke03:55
zenwheni kinda laughed because he thought his story was something new and he pretended it actually happened.03:56
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dokokeybuk: status: resolved, solution: later look strange ...04:28
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mjg59Urgh. Crack.04:53
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ogramjg59, just had the crash again while i was out with the dog, seems the command that ran was spamc and the machine was very hot i think its a tempeature isse, will write a script ot monitor it05:13
ogras/ran/last ran05:13
mjg59ogra: Ok - my suspicion would be that something in your hardware is triggering a shutdown for thermal reasons05:14
mjg59daniels: If my current suspicions are confirmed, it's going to be really quite easy to sort DRM resume on i830+...05:15
ograjup, thats what i suspect too, since i dont run the nvidia driver this nightly shutdowns could be caused by some 3d screensaver05:15
ograi'll monitore the temp and will see if it raises shortly before shutdown...05:15
=== mjg59 waits for every PCI driver to rebuild
jbaileythom: ping?05:24
thomjbailey: ack05:26
jbaileythom: re: hdparm.  md pointed out to me that removing +x from a file in /etc/dev.d is a convenient way of disabling a script.  I notice that a few other bits in there are symlinks to elsewhere, though.  What do you think of the idea of moving that snippet to /usr/share/hdparm, using it for /etc/init.d as well, and just symlinking to it?05:28
thomhrm, that's a good idea05:31
thombe back in a couple of hours, getting a train home from cambridge05:32
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smurfixogra: I had random shutdowns every few days with my old mainboard. I suspect the emergency power sensor on the mainboard returned spurious nonsense. :-/05:36
ograsmurfix, in fact the machine is very hot, so the sensor may be right, the thermal situation of this laptop isnt the best overall...05:37
smurfixogra: Bah. No laptop CPU in there?05:37
ograsmurfix, amd64 :)05:38
smurfixogra: OUCH05:38
mjg59daniels: ARGH.05:38
smurfixogra: So how long does that thing's battery keep up with the demand, half an hour?  :-/05:39
ograsmurfix, its very nice, but the fan grid is exactly the place where the thig sits on my right shank05:39
=== smurfix thinks laptops shoudn't even *have* a fan
ograsmurfix, about 1,25h but the thing is just about a month old....05:39
mjg59daniels: Resume works fine with the kernel i915 driver, but the DRI code insists on a version number of at least 1.205:39
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smurfixHey sabdfl 05:40
ograyay sabdfl 05:40
sabdflhi all05:40
dholbachsabdfl: hey! :-)05:42
mjg59Right. Everything works now except the massively awkward ACPI problem.05:45
sabdflmjg59: which laptop?05:46
mjg59sabdfl: An HP05:47
mjg59Working 3D over suspend/resume!05:47
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sabdflnice! i thought dri killed swsusp?05:49
smurfixmjg59: Cool. Can you do the same thing to mine please?  :-/05:49
mjg59sabdfl: Nah, should be mostly fixed up now05:49
mjg59smurfix: What sort of hardware05:49
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mjg59sabdfl: -29 kernel should make everything immensely happy05:49
smurfixmjg59: Samsung P35. I'll have to retry with the latest kernel.05:50
sabdflmjg59: even the X40?05:50
mjg59sabdfl: Yeah05:50
mjg59smurfix: What sort of video hardware does that have?05:50
smurfixmjg59: Radeon 960005:50
mjg59-29 isn't out yet - you'll have to wait until Tuesday or so05:50
mjg59smurfix: Oh, right. No, you lose :)05:50
smurfixmjg59: Bah05:51
mjg59fglrx has effectively no suspend/resume support at the moment05:51
mjg59Might be fixed for Breezy05:51
smurfixmjg59: I can possibly try radeonfb or vesa05:51
mjg59Nah. If you want 3D on Radeon 9500+, you probably don't get suspend/resume05:52
smurfixmjg59: I can live without 3D more easily than I can live without suspend, to be honest.05:53
smurfixThe only program regularly exercising 3D support here is the screensaver05:54
mjg59Just use the radeon driver rather than the fglrx one, then05:54
dholbachKamion: are you here?06:03
Mitariohmm, can anyone succesfully checkout and build gnome-applets HEAD here (with ubuntu autoconf etc.)06:08
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tsumeI'm trying to install vmware, and its not working06:14
tsumeany clue why it says...06:14
srbakerso my growl compatibility is coming along well06:14
tsumeThe directory of kernel headers (version 2.6.10) does not match your running 06:15
tsumekernel (version 2.6.10-5-386).  Even if the module were to compile successfully,06:15
tsumeit would not load into the running kernel.06:15
tsumesrbaker: hmm06:15
tsumesrbaker: growl? have I heard of it?06:16
mjg59tsume: Install linux-headers-2.6.10-5-38606:16
srbakertseng, growl.info06:16
tsumemjg59: I thought I did, I'll see if its just me06:17
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srbakergrowl is for apps to send non-intrusive notifications to the user06:18
srbakergnarl is the gnome implementation of growl06:18
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tsumemjg59: I'm not seeing the headers for my kernel06:20
tsumemjg59: the kernel binary would be named what?06:21
mdketsume, sudo apt-get install linux-headers-2.6.10-5-38606:22
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srbakeranyone know of a good testrunner for python?06:44
srbakerperhaps a script that will run all of the tests under "test/" named "test_*.py" ?06:44
mdzsrbaker: help(unittest)06:44
jancsrbaker : read the docs  :)06:44
srbakeri *am* reading the doics, and i didn't find anything that would do what i want06:45
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tsumemdke: thank you07:01
tsumemdke: is there a search program on the web for the archives?07:02
mdketsume, which archives do you mean?07:02
tsumemdke: a web search for any available packages07:03
tsumedescription, name, etc07:03
mdkei just use apt07:03
mdkeor synaptic07:03
tsumeapt can search description?07:03
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mdketsume, see PM07:05
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nasdaq7@find visio07:09
schweebnasdaq7: not a warez channel, thanks07:10
mdkeits an idea tho07:10
nasdaq7i was way away07:11
mdkenasdaq7, this about as far off a warez channel that you can get07:12
Amaranthdo you think having invalid desktop files still show up in the menus is a good thing?07:13
calcAmaranth: invalid in what way?07:13
Amaranthi just ran desktop-file-validate on all my menu desktop files and a lot of them are failing07:14
calcah well yea filing bugs on them would be a good idea07:14
calcwe don't need .desktop files becoming like html07:14
Amaranthno, i think i made these entries :P07:14
Amaranth/usr/share/applications/users.desktop: error: value of key "Categories" is a list of strings and must end with a semicolon07:14
Amaranthi didn't make that one07:14
Amaranth/usr/share/applications/screensaver-properties.desktop: error: required key "Encoding" not found07:15
zenwhenyou still blowin stuff up Amaranth 07:15
Amaranthzenwhen: yeah07:15
Amaranthi'm going to fix all these and see if it helps my editor any07:15
Amaranthi wonder why i'm going to tell the people that used my editor when they find out i broke all the entries they editting07:15
zenwhenyour older safer editor is treating me well.07:16
AmaranthI've been putting Terminal=True or Terminal=False instead of true and false07:16
mdkeAmaranth, tell em its testing07:16
Amaranthzenwhen: it breaks things too07:16
zenwhenit hasnt for me yet07:16
Amaranthread up07:16
Amaranththe terminal thing07:16
calcAmaranth: Terminal isn't required in a .desktop file07:17
Amaranthno but i put it in all the ones i edit07:17
calcand the True vs true doesn't seem to be mentioned in the spec so both should work i guess07:18
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calcwell it somewhat says it should be "true" but doesn't say it in a really strong way07:20
calcits mentioned in a previous paragraph before they mention that the text is case sensitive07:20
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Amaranthi give up again07:45
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WebMavenStill needing some ZCML help here, if anyone can assist.08:20
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WebMavenStill needing some ZCML help here, if anyone can assist.08:37
kokeMitario: ping?08:39
thomWebMaven: i suspect you're in the wrong channel08:40
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Mitariokoke, pong08:42
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shayathe evince package claims to have a thumbnailer for nautilus.  I don't see any evidence of it08:43
=== schweeb points shaya to the "evince-thumbnailer" binary
thomKamion: ta, resyncing now08:50
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pittiHi folks08:54
=== pitti returned from a fantastic presentation about Iceland
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dholbachhi pitti 08:57
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pittijbailey: ping09:00
ogramdz ?09:00
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ograhi pitti, how is the water situation in dresden ?09:01
pittiogra: pretty calm09:01
pittiogra: folks living in the vicinity of the Elbe might get wet cellars09:01
ograah, sounds good, the news look worrying09:01
pittiogra: but nothing particularly unusual :-)09:02
pittiogra: I'm glad that I don't have a TV to be worried :-)09:02
ograi'm glad to hear its better then reported :)09:03
pittiogra: good reason for my parents to clean up their cellar for a change :-)09:03
ograMithrandir, did you contact Ove ?09:03
Mithrandirogra: argh, forgot :/09:04
ograstill two days until the meeting :)09:04
Mithrandiryeah, what time is it again?09:05
dholbach16:00 utc09:05
MithrandirI'll do it straight away09:05
ograMar 22nd 2005 at 1600 UTC09:05
ogragreat, thanks :)09:05
=== pitti curses at the lying cdbs tutorial
schweebpitti: where does it lie?09:06
pittischweeb: I try to gzip a few additional files before assembling the deb09:07
pittischweeb: the binary/foo:: example does something similar09:07
pittischweeb: i. e. the tutorial suggests that binary/foo is executed right before dh_builddeb09:07
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pittischweeb: but in fact it's executed right _after_ dh_builddeb, which makes it kind of pointless09:07
pittischweeb: and install/foo: is too early for me09:08
schweebhow about binary-install/foo::09:08
pittischweeb: (install sucks as well, it calls the commands right after dh_installdirs, when no files have actually been isntalled yet)09:08
=== schweeb just did similar in a package
sabmocWould svg fonts be really cool or really lame?09:10
sabmocon a desktop, for example09:10
schweebisn't that essentially what TTF is?09:10
sabmocI have no idea. Ok09:10
dholbachpitti: isn't there something like DEB_COMPRESS_EXCLUDE ? (only the other way round?)09:11
mdzogra: ?09:12
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ogramdz, i dont see wine on the CC agenda...09:12
pittican you be bribed to tell me how? :-)09:13
pittidholbach: no, unfortunately not09:13
pittidholbach: you can give additional files to dh_compress09:13
pittidholbach: but not per-package, only globally, and I have a multi-deb package09:13
dholbachpitti: i try to understand whats going on in rules/debhelper.mk at $(patsubst %,binary-fixup/%,$(DEB_PACKAGES)) :: binary-fixup/%: binary-strip/% - but that must be the right stanza09:13
pittidholbach: and debian/package.compress is really lame, too :-(09:13
mdzogra: if you would like to discuss something which is not on the agenda, feel free to modify the agenda09:13
schweebsabmoc: yes, truetype fonts are scalable vector fonts09:13
ogramdz, the TB wanted to....i mailed scott (no confirmation yet) and Mithrandir just mailed Ove09:14
mdzogra: if they are not coming to the meeting, there is nothing to talk about09:14
pittidholbach: common-binary-predeb-arch could help :-)09:14
ogramdz, i'll put it there, even if we dont have confirmation yet09:14
mdzogra: so when you hear back from them, go ahead and change the agenda09:14
ogramdz, ok09:14
dholbachpitti: what a charming name :-)09:14
ogramdz, thanks09:15
pittidholbach: but binary-predeb/package could work, too :-)09:15
mjg59I think I may have found out why the HP has strange lid switch behaviour.09:17
=== mjg59 hacks around it using setpci and is impressed to find that it works
pittidholbach, schweeb: yeah, binary-predeb does The Right Thing (tm) :-)09:19
mjg59Keybuk: Hitting the lid switch sets a PCI configuration register. The only thing that clears that register is changing the display device using an ACPI call.09:20
schweebwhat's the correct thing to do while making a package from CVS?09:20
shayaschweeb: yea, but I have 0 evidence that it hooks in with nautilus09:20
schweebrun autogen.sh in the rules? or beforehand09:20
pittiDear jbailey, please rename binary to binary-postdeb and binary-predeb to binary. Love, pitti09:20
mjg59Or, alternatively, clearing the register myself.09:20
mjg59With setpci.09:20
=== mjg59 feels sick.
schweebshaya: well, it works for me...09:21
shayayou see mini pdfs in nautilus?09:21
schweebtis a beautiful thing09:21
shayaI dont, I just get the stock pdf icon09:21
=== shaya feels left out
dholbachshaya: me too09:22
schweebI could take a screenshot, hehe09:22
schweebbut I have Programming C# sitting in my home dir right now, and I see a thumb with the first page, with an acrobat symbol overlaid on it09:23
shayait seems that evince-thumbnailer isn't in my gconf09:23
shayabut I see a schemea for it in the package09:23
shayawonder if that's related09:24
dholbachoh nice... nautilus uses 70% of mem09:29
shayaI have no idea how evince-thumbnailer is supposed to hook in with nautilus09:30
shayadholbach, 09:35
shayafigured it out09:35
shayaor not09:35
mrothschweeb: this Programming C# PDF you mention.. is that a Free book, or commercial?09:37
=== mjg59 hacks together ACPI video support
schweebmroth: *cough* commercial09:41
schweebthe O'Reilly book09:42
schweebI own the hardcopy, so it's all legal (I think) ;)09:43
mrothschweeb: ahh.  we have an O'Reilly Safari subscription at work, but its all HTML, you cant get PDF versions of the books, so its kind of annoying.09:44
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jbaileypitti: Can't do it.  Debian Policy section 4.8 gives the behaviour required from the 'binary' target.  binary-predeb is a hack used for debhelper to work around various make suckages.  cdbs2 will have a post-debhelper hook for things that you want to run after debhelper is done its job, a debhelper hook to hook new debhelper rules into (for the gnome folks, and others), and a pre-debhelper hook to run things10:04
jbailey right before it.  Will that meet what you need?10:04
pittijbailey: Hi!10:05
pittijbailey: well, so far binary-predeb was exactly what I needed10:05
pittijbailey: binary/foo:: is too late, at that time the deb is already built10:05
pittijbailey: and binary/install:: is right after dh_installdirs, which is too early10:05
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jbaileypitti: Right.  It's a bit of a confusing mess in there.  Ar eyou generating something in the target package directories?10:07
jbaileymroth: If you pay them money per chapter you can download the PDFs as well.10:12
jbaileymroth: Not usually worth it.  THe discounts they offer on purchasing books makes it worth just buying the dead-tree edition if that's what you really want.10:12
dokojdub: ping?10:14
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pittijbailey: I want to gzip some additional files10:22
pittijbailey: dh_compress is not very extendable, so I do this with a find -exec gzip command in a rule10:22
Mithrandirpitti: dh_compress filename?10:24
jbaileypitti: Ah.  I probably would've used DEB_DH_COMPRESS_ARGS := $(shell find ...)10:25
jbaileyErr, no :=10:25
jbaileyNeed lazy binding on that one.10:25
jdubdoko: pong10:30
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jdubmorning all10:30
pitti_laptopMithrandir: dh_compress is not per-package and I'd like to have wildcards10:31
pitti_laptopHi jdub 10:31
dokojdub: could you send me a patch for #2702 or tell me the correct categories to place it in System/Administration?10:32
ogramorning jdub 10:32
jbaileypitti_laptop: Ugh.  YEah, that's one problem with this module is that not every variable has a perpass version of it.  *sigh*10:34
tsenghi jdub.10:34
jbaileywasabi: See?  Lots of things I hate about cdbsv1 which desperately need fixing. =)10:34
jdubdoko: i don't think it should be in System/Administration10:38
jdubdoko: you can open this dialogue from every OOo app, can't you?10:38
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jdubhrm, seems not10:40
=== schweeb tests his gsf-sharp pkg via a beagle build
tsengschweeb: package?10:40
dokojdub: no, you can't, at least not from Draw10:40
tsengis there a release?10:40
schweebjdub wanted it for beagle 10:41
tsengyeah but, no tarball afaik10:41
schweebyea, I just SVN'd it10:41
tsengoh well10:41
schweebit's all I could find10:41
schweebI /looked/ for a release10:41
tsengyeah there is none10:41
tsengoh gsf10:42
tsengim talking about gst.10:42
schweebsame situation10:42
schweebI think there's only even 2 pages of results for "gsf-sharp" on google10:42
schweeband most of them revolve around beagle10:42
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thomjbailey: as a simpler solution, we could just make sure that anyone upgrading from an old version of hdparm gets the dev.d script 755'd10:53
pittimdz: here?10:53
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jbaileythom: Yup, I had just been looking at it being an almost perfect copy of what's in the init.d anyway, and wanted to avoid code duplication.10:56
=== OddAbe19 is away: Gone... Like the French in a battle.
AmaranthOddAbe19: ...10:57
jbaileyOddAbe19: Umm.. Ouch?10:57
thomOddAbe19: for the last time, please turn off public aways off, especially blatantly offensive ones10:58
ograOddAbe19, and please read and understand the CoC10:59
dokojdub: what about the location of the OOo printer setup?11:00
jdubdoko: i'm trying to determine whether we really need a menu entry for it at all11:01
ograjdub, i dont think so11:02
dokook, just wanted to add it for the next upload11:02
schweebeverything should be picked up via CUPS or configurable from the app itself, IME11:02
dokoschweeb: please send a patch11:02
jduband you can always run it from the command line11:02
jdubdoko: you can add add NoDisplay=true to the .desktop file11:03
dokojdub: ok11:05
abellijdub: ciao11:05
abellijdub: im not ubuntu-it's moderator anymore.11:06
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abellijdub: it has been so for about 3 weeks by now.11:06
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jdubabelli: so why did someone have to mail me about it, rather than you telling me?11:06
mdkejdub, sorry that was me11:07
abellijdub: i actually mailed mako.11:07
abelliand matthias.11:07
abellimmm.. i think that i explicitly talked about the ml only with mako.11:07
jdubabelli: neither of whom admin the lists :)11:07
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abellijdub: mako was one of the ex administrators, and i thought it was related with loco teams.11:08
jdubabelli: so you agree that matthew.east@breathe.com and s.mestre@blueberrypie.it should be the new admins?11:09
abellimmm im not concerned actually.11:10
schweebjdub: is it beagle 0.0.7 that's goin in?11:10
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jdubschweeb: yes, already uploaded11:10
abellijdub: i can't say that sorry.11:10
jdubwe need an elmo to process it11:10
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dokojdub: should the printeradmin icon be hidden in KDE as well?11:11
jdubdoko: if you add NoDisplay=true, it shouldn't appear in either...11:12
Amaranthor does that do something different?11:14
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jdubabelli, mdke: so no one is listed on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ItalianTeam11:15
abellijdub: i know.11:15
dokojdub: ok, it does have another entry in /usr/share/applnk for KDE.11:15
jdubabelli, mdke: can you guys mail matthias, mako and myself, to sort this out?11:15
jdubdoko: ah, bong. you could get rid of that.11:16
jdubdoko: but, let's do that next release. :)11:16
Mithrandirpitti: -p tells it what package to act on11:16
abellijdub: why me, if i can ask.11:16
jdubabelli: because you were previously adminning the list, and ostensibly leading the locoteam.11:16
pittiMithrandir: I know, but cdbs doesn't have a rule to influence per-package invocation11:16
schweebwtf... beagle doesn't like my libdbus-cil :-/11:17
pittiMithrandir: anyway, I already found a solution :-)11:17
jdubpitti: it does11:17
Mithrandirpitti: binary-install/$package::\ndh_compress -p$(cdbs_curpkg) $file1 $file2 &c :)11:18
pittijdub: ?11:18
jdubpitti: binary-install/<package-name>::11:18
=== schweeb mentioned that earlier too
pittiMithrandir: hmm, okay; this would call dh_compress again (which wouldn't hurt certainly)11:19
pittiMithrandir: however, I just did "find -name ... -exec gzip '{}' \; 11:19
pittiMithrandir, jdub: thanks, didn't know about binary-install; I used binary-predeb 11:20
Mithrandirpitti: you just want to compress stuff < 4k though11:20
pittihmm, right11:20
pittiso dh_compress $(find ...), I guess11:21
abellijdub: I have sent mako and matthias an email few hours ago.11:21
abellijdub:  I have already threated the question with mako last week.11:21
abellijdub: I wasn't very "happy" of mako's behaviour during all this problem.11:21
abellijdub: He handled the ubuntu-italia subject with a sort of detachment, and things are gone upside down.11:21
abellijdub: I strongly disagree with methods argued by this new group11:21
jdubabelli: meanwhile, i know nothing, and am loathe to change things without consensus.11:22
mdkeperhaps I might help11:22
mdkeis it necessary for moderators of a list to be team leaders?11:23
mdkethe issue for me is that we have no moderators on a list11:23
jdubmdke: it's not necessary, no; the list has both admin and moderator access.11:24
jdubmdke: however, that's the kind of thing i'd prefer to leave up to a locoteam leader. atm, there is none listed on the wiki page.11:25
mdkejdub, there is no locoteam leader for the italian team11:25
abellijdub:  I don't know who is this sebastiano, but he didn't too much (almost nothing) for ubuntu-italia.11:25
jdubso we have two problems :)11:25
mdkecan we change channel?11:25
jdubso the best course of action would be to add this to the community council agenda11:25
jdubso it can be sorted out there11:25
mdkek you're the boss11:26
mdkecan you moderate my email through please?11:26
abellijdub: please do not consider myself as available anymore, and let mako explain you why.11:26
jdubmdke: i'm going to make you listadmin in the mean time.11:27
abellijdub: can i consider myself free to leave?11:30
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jdubabelli: you're always free to leave, it's just nice to let people know what's going on if you do.11:32
jdubabelli: that's in our code of conduct even. :)11:32
abellijdub: mmm i mean now.11:32
abellijdub: i mailed mako cc: ing matthias...11:33
=== mike_douglas [~mike@S01060011950b3207.vw.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
abellijdub: i was meaning: for this night.11:33
jdubyou don't need to ask permission from me11:33
abellijdub: i was talking with you, actually.11:34
abellii did what i thought was right, no one told me to do anything more.11:34
abelliim sorry if i missed something.11:34
abelliit wasnt in my mind.11:34
jdubit's ok, it'll sort out11:34
=== pitti [~pitti@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
abellijdub: if you need any other information, I can keep going on chatting, otherwise it will be a pleasure to meet you again.11:35
abelliahhh right.11:35
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=== schweeb stabs beagle
schweebjdub: well, looks like my gsf-sharp pkg works for the most part11:37
abellihave good night/day everybody11:37
jdubschweeb: "for the most part"? :)11:37
schweebI'm a packaging n00b11:38
schweebgotta tweak a bit... add copyright, etc...11:38
schweeboh shyte11:39
schweebis inotify on by default anymore?11:40
schweebmight explain why best is dying on my lappy11:41
zulhell no11:42
schweebwhat's the kernel option?  inotify?11:42
=== mike_douglas [~mike@S01060011950b3207.vw.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
schweebhehe, last time I tried beagle, it was on by default *shrug* I just recalled that it prolly wasn't on anymore like 2mins ago11:43
jdubschweeb: hrm, that shouldn't matter11:43
jdub*best* is dying, or beagled?11:43
jdubstart beagled with --fg --debug11:43
=== dredg has beagle working fine here...
schweebioctl(-1, INOTIFY_WATCH, {/home/chris/.gaim/blist.xml, 32776}) failedioctl: Bad file descriptor11:43
tsengyeah schweeb 11:43
tsengjdub fix0red that11:43
schweebthen like 60 lines of output11:43
jdubuse my packages that haven't got through NEW yet11:43
=== jdub puts them up in his repo
jdubone sec11:44
schweebURL to get?  they're not in archive yet rightr?11:44
schweeboh goodie11:44
jdubtseng: sorry, slept and forgot ;)11:44
HrdwrBoBno more sleeping!11:44
jdubuploading now11:44
jdubHrdwrBoB: yeah, now there's a valid solution11:45
jdubi386 binary and source up at people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/hoary/11:46
tsengdamn right, beagle11:46
=== ironwolf [~ironwolf@c-24-6-169-124.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
schweebI was pretty good at the no sleep thing last night11:47
tsengjdub: apt-ftparchive :(O11:47
schweebalthough I was too tired to think or accomplish anything, I was too anxious to sleep11:47
schweebtseng: heh11:47
jdubtseng: kinda didn't want to make it apt-gettable because random crazy shit goes there11:48
schweebjdub: works <311:50
schweebjdub: hey, for svn'ed packages, is it appropriate to run autogen.sh and have the generated files in the .orig tarball, or should it be run via debian/rules at compile time?11:52
dholbachschweeb:   ./autogen.sh && make dist   should be fine11:53
schweebwhere at?  in the orig, or run at compile time?11:53
schweebgood, that makes things simpler11:54
dholbachpeople will discourage you from having to build-depend on autotools11:54
jduboh man11:54
jdub*another* new gaim11:54
ograthey never stop11:54
dholbachthey should start killing dialogs :-)11:54
jdubthis is exactly the kind of wooly-headed release management that leads to foolish backporting11:55
mdkenight all11:55
jdubwe should stand outside the gaim developer's houses with pitchforks and flaming 42 gallon drums11:55
schweeb"adjust to our release management style now!"11:55
ograjdub, have you seen that backports already has a bunch of hoary packages (ff 1.0.1, nx etc)11:56
Keybukjdub: I prefer the idea of making Immendio make gossip do msn and friends w:p11:56
jdubKeybuk: mmm11:56
jdubogra: maybe we should just do the pitchforks/burning-drums thing with the backports maintainers11:57
dholbachjdub: that sounds lovely11:57
dredggah. new gaim-encryption too11:59
=== dredg kills it in the face
dholbachdredg: you should rss-subscribe to its releases :-)12:00
dredgdholbach: i've been away for the last few days. playing the catch-up-with-my-life game12:00
ograjdub, does the CoC comply to the treatment of external resources ?12:00

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