[12:01] <mjg59> thom: Hi
[12:01] <ogra> Loevborg, he is the real thom
[12:02] <mdke> thom yorke?
[12:03] <Loevborg> mdke, *nod*
[12:03] <mdke> whoa
[12:04] <thom> heh
[12:06] <mjg59> thom: Ok, we got logs from the lolotop
[12:07] <mjg59> It ran the powerbutton script immediately after the resume had finished
[12:12] <thully> For several reasons (I don't enough time,  and I need something more stable as my primary OS) I will be unable to continue running/testing/reporting bugs in the development version of Ubuntu.  What should I do with my bug reports?  Is there a way to "release them" - that is, take my name off them?
[12:13] <mjg59> Nope
[12:14] <mdke> thully, i will watch the firefox one
[12:14] <thom> Loevborg: it's not my nickname
[12:14] <thom> *anyway*
[12:14] <mjg59> thom: I /suspect/ that it's not actually handling the event until the previous event has exited, so we end up with the same problem
[12:14] <Loevborg> thom, what does that mean metaphyiscally?
[12:14] <thully> sorry - I just am at a time where I need to be able to depend on my laptop suspending, resuming, getting online etc.  Hoary does this most of the time, but I find that things go wrong at exactly the same time.
[12:14] <thom> mjg59: meh
[12:15] <thully> s/same/wrong
[12:15] <thom> mjg59: acpid should clear the even if it's locked
[12:15] <thom> event
[12:15] <thom> Loevborg: it's my _name_
[12:15] <mjg59> thom: I don't think acpid_handle_event returns until the script has exited, at which point the lock gets removed again
[12:16] <thom> aaah, ew
[12:16] <mjg59> thom: So I think our best bet is to have a helper script that sleeps and then removes the lock (which is horrible, but, well)
[12:16] <thom> yeah, i think you're right. nod
[12:17] <Loevborg> oh ok.
[12:17] <thully> I think maybe I should just stick to the stable releases (of Ubuntu, another distro, or another OS altogether) for now - It's not a good sitution if you have trouble w/your internet connection and have something that needs to be done
[12:18] <zul> hey
[12:19] <thom> thully: sure; if you're not comfortable running unstable software, don't
[12:19] <mjg59> Hmm. Right. I should go to bed soon, and then spend the day hacking acpi
[12:20] <thully> I got started running Hoary when Warty didn't support suspend very well on my laptop (either 10% usage/hour or nothing - no swsusp even)
[12:21] <dholbach> hey zul
[12:21] <thully> If I had a test machine, I'd run it on that - but I currently only have one system (and I'm actually sending it for warranty work next week)
[12:21] <mjg59> It's still the case that ACPI suspend is highly experimental under Linux, which is why it's disabled by default
[12:21] <thully> to disk, to RAM, or both?
[12:21] <Loevborg> thully, both.
[12:21] <zul> oooh...what did i miss..
[12:22] <mjg59> To disk is enabled by default, and works in most use cases
[12:22] <thully> I would use APM (my system supports it) but apparently you can't do speedstepping in APM
[12:22] <mjg59> You ought to be able to
[12:22] <mjg59> You'll lose other aspects of CPU power management though
[12:23] <mjg59> Kamion: Is man supposed to be attempting to use unicode hyphens on the Linux console?
[12:25] <thully> Well, I'd like to avoid the OS That Can Not Be Named, but laptop support appears to still be a bit troublesome in Linux...
[12:26] <mjg59> If you want laptop support equivilent to that offered by Windows, your choices are Windows or MacOS X
[12:26] <zenwhen> works fine on my laptop
[12:26] <mdke> lol
[12:26] <thully> and I really can't fix it myself at this time
[12:27] <mjg59> Linux laptop support has improved massively over the past year, but we still can't offer the same level of functionality
[12:27] <thully> suspend and wireless are the big issues at this point - although I actually think I have one of the better supported laptops
[12:27] <mdke> you have to buy the right laptop i guess
[12:28] <thully> well, I think mine is about as good as it gets - suspend and wireless work fine, but are still a bit buggy
[12:28] <zenwhen> The orinoco gold classic is the solution to linux wireless issues.
[12:30] <thom> ipw* work fine
[12:30] <helix> thom: why?
[12:31] <ogra> :)
[12:31] <thully> yes - most of my issues are wireless after resume from suspend, and switching internet connections (from wi-fi, to PPP, and back...)
[12:32] <Loevborg> zenwhen, those are impossible to get a hold of at a decent price, at least here.
[12:32] <thom> helix: obfuscation bad, mmmkay?
[12:32] <jbailey> thom: You must hate debhelper and debuild then. =)
[12:32] <helix> it's not that obfuscated
[12:33] <thom> jbailey: i don't count debhelper as obfuscated, since it's utterly obvious from the rules file what the intent is :-)
[12:33] <zenwhen> Loevborg, that is unfortunate. All i had to do was plug mine into my pcmcia slot, and it ifup'd as eth0
[12:33] <jbailey> thom: I find the same with cdbs. =)
[12:34] <helix> thom: you should use yada
[12:34] <thom> helix: heh
[12:35] <mjg59> Whee
[12:35] <thom> jbailey: give me docs then, so i can decipher other people's cdbs
[12:36] <jbailey> thom: Working on it. =)
[12:36] <mjg59> daniels: Argh. It can't change RAM size because AGP hasn't been loaded.
[12:40] <Kamion> mjg59: I uploaded a version of groff to Debian on Friday that turns that off; it's awaiting a sync to Ubuntu. (By the way, groff has no clue whether you're on the Linux console or not. Nor does man, for that matter.)
[12:41] <mjg59> Ah
[12:41] <Kamion> ogra: 'man strcmp' is pretty clear if you read the next line and know what the word "respectively" means. :-)
[12:41] <thully> OK, then - I may regretfully end up installing that other OS... maybe I'll take a look at Hoary final first, and possibly SUSE (they have pretty good laptop+wireless support)
[12:42] <ogra> Kamion, docbook was ore helpful ;)
[12:42] <ogra> more even
[12:42] <Kamion> It returns
[12:42] <calc> cdbs isn't hard to understand :)
[12:42] <Kamion>        an integer less than, equal to, or greater than zero if  s1  is  found,
[12:42] <Kamion>        respectively, to be less than, to match, or be greater than s2.
[12:42] <Kamion> ogra: i.e. "less than zero if s1 is found to be less than s2; equal to zero if s1 is found to match s2; greater than zero if s1 is found to be greater than s2"
[12:43] <Kamion> doko: no idea, I don't really understand LANGUAGE and I've never found a clear spec for its contents
[12:43] <ogra> Kamion, after all it just should say it returns zero if the strings match :)
[12:43] <Kamion> ogra: it DOES
[12:43] <Kamion> if you know what the word "respectively" means (which is pretty standard in English developer documentation IME)
[12:43] <ogra> Kamion, if you studied english ....
[12:43] <Kamion> if you didn't, you should use a translation of the documentation :)
[12:44] <ogra> heh, true
[12:44] <thully> Bye everyone.  Thanks for all the ACPI work.
[12:44] <ogra> Kamion, i was just a bit logically barred :) 
[12:45] <mdke> man pages aren't supposed to be easy to understand ;)
[12:46] <zul> heh..we got into this arguemnet at work yeserday
[12:46] <mdke> lol
[12:46] <ogra> mdke, if i have slept enough and didnt drink half a bottle of wine before reading them, i normally understand what they say :)
[12:47] <mdke> ogra, if you finish the bottle, you'll understand em
[12:47] <ogra> lol
[12:47] <ogra> mdke, i'm near...
[12:48] <Kamion>        Die Funktion strcmp() vergleicht die beiden Strings s1 und s2 miteinan
[12:48] <Kamion>        der. Sie gibt eine ganze Zahl kleiner,  gleich  oder  grer  als  Null
[12:48] <Kamion>        zurck,  wenn  s1 gefunden wurde und kleiner, gleich oder grer als s2
[12:48] <Kamion>        ist.
[12:48] <mdke> lol
[12:50] <ogra> Kamion, yup, i already understood it ( xscreensaver is uploaded already) ;) but still the above i said would be an easier explanation
[12:51] <ogra> even in german
[12:52] <Kamion> I'm just resentful that people keep trying to blame unclear writing on the documentation format :P
[12:52] <dholbach> add dates here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Calendar :-)
[12:52] <zul> Kamion: heh then you dont want to work with the people i work with ;)
[12:53] <thom> Kamion: heh
[12:53] <ogra> Kamion, i know its my fault if i dont understand a man page in the firtst place, but one could make i easier for drunken people ;)
[12:53] <jdub> gooooooood morning freedom lovers!
[12:53] <dholbach> hey jdub 
[12:53] <ogra> morning jdub 
[12:54] <Kamion> writing documentation that's clear to drunken non-native speakers is, er, a challenge in general ;)
[12:54] <Kamion> anyhow, gotta go
[12:54] <zul> he jdub
[12:54] <dholbach> bye Kamion 
[12:54] <dholbach> jdub: may i point you to wiki/Calendar and invite you to the MOTU Meeting? :-)
[12:55] <jdub> heh, that's not such a great time for me ;)
[12:55] <jdub> but possibly
[12:56] <ogra> jdub, we'd like to discuss some release manager related things there
[12:58] <mdke> has anyone got a menu editing frontend in universe yet?
[12:58] <ogra> jdub, btw, xscreensaver uploaded, objections go to my place...
[12:58] <dholbach> mdke: ask Amaranth 
[12:58] <jdub> ogra: ah cool, thanks
[12:58] <Amaranth> I sort of do.
[12:58] <mdke> dholbach, oooh that's already a partly positive answer
[12:58] <mdke> Amaranth, yay#
[12:58] <Amaranth> I need help with the menu spec before I can go any further with it.
[12:58] <Amaranth> http://dev.realistanew.com/menu-editor/
[12:59] <mdke> is that the one posted on the forum
[12:59] <Amaranth> one of them
[12:59] <Amaranth> check the screenshot in that dir
[12:59] <mdke> yeah looks pretty cool
[12:59] <mdke> is it systemwide or userwide?
[12:59] <Amaranth> systemwide
[12:59] <Amaranth> i'm working on user ones right now
[01:00] <mdke> awesome
[01:00] <mdke> thanks very much on behalf of us all
[01:00] <Amaranth> i can make new entries show up just fine but i should be able to override system ones with user ones (so you can 'change' the users ones) but it isn't working
[01:00] <mdke> Amaranth, maybe it is a limitation with gnome
[01:00] <Amaranth> err, so you can 'change' the system ones
[01:00] <Amaranth> i'm starting to think so
[01:01] <mdke> is it packaged? i can't help you out but I can test if you like
[01:01] <Amaranth> well, no, because it doesn't work in python-xdg either
[01:01] <mdke> k
[01:01] <Amaranth> no, no packages yet
[01:01] <Amaranth> i want to get this fixed and allow deleting entries first
[01:01] <mdke> k
[01:02] <mdke> you seen that guide on the gnome site about how to do it manually?
[01:04] <Amaranth> o_O
[01:04] <Amaranth> I've been looking
[01:04] <Amaranth> URL>
[01:04] <Amaranth> ?
[01:04] <mdke> erm
[01:04] <mdke> i copied it onto our wiki
[01:04] <mdke> GnomeMenuEditingHowTo
[01:05] <mdke> someone posted it in bugzilla
[01:06] <Amaranth> that's old
[01:06] <mdke> oh
[01:06] <Amaranth> that's vfolder junk
[01:06] <mdke> doesn't work?
[01:06] <zenwhen> Amaranth, your current menu editor has made my day
[01:06] <zenwhen> :)
[01:06] <Amaranth> hehe
[01:07] <Amaranth> the new one will work without root and have a delete button :P
[01:07] <zenwhen> my menus now contain a lot of things they should have
[01:07] <Amaranth> if it ever gets released
[01:07] <zenwhen> sounds nice
[01:08] <srbaker> is anyone else here experiencing 'issues' with icons in gnome?
[01:08] <srbaker> when i install software, the icons aren't recognized until after i log out and log in, often.
[01:09] <srbaker> it's not really reproducable because it's not consistent
[01:10] <Amaranth> srbaker: you mean on the menus?
[01:10] <mdke> normal surely?
[01:10] <mdke> killall gnome-panel will do it
[01:10] <Amaranth> the menus are funny
[01:10] <srbaker> Amaranth, yeah
[01:10] <Amaranth> sometimes you need to kill the panel to make changes work, sometimes you don't
[01:10] <srbaker> that's weird
[01:11] <srbaker> what's the green dot that a lot of people seem to have in their panels?
[01:11] <Amaranth> battery?
[01:11] <Amaranth> do you have a screenshot?
[01:12] <srbaker> http://www.oreillynet.com/network/2004/10/18/graphics/ifolder-icon.jpg
[01:12] <srbaker> third from the left
[01:13] <mdke> updates?
[01:13] <srbaker> is that what that is?
[01:13] <srbaker> update manager?
[01:13] <Amaranth> no
[01:13] <srbaker> i installed update-manager and update-notify but i can't seem to get the panel applet, either
[01:13] <srbaker> but i haven't fucked around with that yet
[01:14] <Amaranth> the notification icon only shows up when you have upgrades
[01:14] <thom> srbaker: it's gossip
[01:14] <srbaker> thom, what's gossip?
[01:14] <srbaker> oh, the icon
[01:14] <srbaker> cool
[01:15] <srbaker> thanks
[01:17] <jdub> srbaker: you do need to ensure that update-notifier is running in your session
[01:17] <srbaker> jdub, i haven't logged out and logged in since i installed it
[01:17] <jdub> so run it :)
[01:18] <jdub> aha, good, kubuntu on slashdot
[01:19] <jdub> ha ha ark linux
[01:19] <zul> finally..
[01:19] <Amaranth> isn't ark based on debian too?
[01:19] <mdke> Amaranth, is it cool if I post your menu editor on that wiki page (have removed vfolder stuff)
[01:19] <mdke> ?
[01:19] <Amaranth> mdke: sure
[01:19] <mdke> ty
[01:21] <Amaranth> you put it on first, then asked for permission :P
[01:21] <jdub> "Before people go like "Why doesn't Canonical make one cd with both KDE and Gnome?", let me put it this way: the same reason why they don't make one big DVD like Fedora."
[01:21] <mdke> nope
[01:21] <jdub> ^ ha ha
[01:21] <mdke> Amaranth, i asked for permission, then saved the page
[01:21] <Amaranth> oh
[01:21] <Amaranth> i refreshed right away and i guess i got in right after your save
[01:21] <mdke> :)
[01:21] <Amaranth> jdub: someone said something about a DVD
[01:21] <Amaranth> said they wanted more apps
[01:21] <jdub> we're already building DVDs
[01:21] <srbaker> jdub, isn't ubuntu with gnome only hard enough to fit on one cd?
[01:22] <mdke> Amaranth, yeah i saw that
[01:22] <mdz> daniels: me: "is this the same bug, or a different bug?" you: "yeah" -- which one?
[01:22] <jdub> srbaker: not enormously hard, but it is getting harder.
[01:22] <Amaranth> does anyone here know anything about the fd.o menu spec?
[01:23] <srbaker> jdub, i am very impressed that ubuntu fit on one cd
[01:23] <Amaranth> i swear they intentionally made it hard...
[01:25] <azeem_> "it'll always be 1 CD" -- James Troup
[01:26] <srbaker> hehehe
[01:27] <jdub> azeem_: that's the intention, yes
[01:28] <thom> mdz: popcon is waiting on me getting it cronned up and happy, then i'll announce it
[01:28] <daniels> mdz: erk.  yeah -> same.
[01:29] <mdz> daniels: cool, thanks
[01:29] <mdz> thom: ETA?
[01:29] <thom> mdz: monday
[01:29] <mdz> stupendous
[01:32] <ogra> so could someone tell me why my laptop just shot down unintentionally ?
[01:33] <zul> gremlins?
[01:33] <ogra> hrm
[01:33] <ogra> i'm not amused, lost a lot of unsaved stuff....it happend out of the blue...
[01:34] <dholbach> ogra: syslog?
[01:34] <ogra> dholbach, nothing
[01:35] <ogra> hmm...
[01:35] <ogra> Mar 20 01:25:18 localhost kernel: psmouse.c: TouchPad at isa0060/serio4/input0 lost sync at byte 1
[01:35] <ogra> Mar 20 01:25:18 localhost last message repeated 4 times
[01:35] <ogra> Mar 20 01:25:18 localhost kernel: psmouse.c: TouchPad at isa0060/serio4/input0 - driver resynched.
[01:35] <ogra> Mar 20 01:25:18 localhost kernel: psmouse.c: TouchPad at isa0060/serio4/input0 lost sync at byte 4
[01:35] <ogra> zul ideas ? looks like the kernel
[01:36] <zul> weird
[01:36] <ogra> in fact there seem to be a lot of these messages
[01:36] <zul> when did it first start?
[01:36] <dholbach> ogra: you flew out 1:17 of my time
[01:37] <srbaker> hrm
[01:37] <srbaker> update-notifier is running, but i don't seem to be getting a desktop icon for it
[01:37] <srbaker> jdub, what's the "gnome way" of notifying other applications of something?
[01:37] <ogra> dholbach, 1:37 here now...
[01:37] <ogra> dholbach, does that match ?
[01:37] <dholbach> ogra: yeah
[01:37] <srbaker> jdub, i've been thinking about doinga Growl compatible client for Gnome (growl.info)
[01:37] <ogra> k
[01:37] <srbaker> it's for user notification
[01:38] <ogra> ARGH
[01:38] <ogra> ar 20 01:17:58 localhost kernel: ext3_orphan_cleanup: deleting unreferenced inode 734214
[01:38] <ogra> Mar 20 01:17:58 localhost kernel: ext3_orphan_cleanup: deleting unreferenced inode 1322015
[01:38] <ogra> Mar 20 01:17:58 localhost kernel: ext3_orphan_cleanup: deleting unreferenced inode 1321933
[01:38] <dholbach> :-(
[01:38] <Amaranth> heh, kmenuedit doesn't work either
[01:39] <Amaranth> i'm calling this what i'm almost positive it is now: a gnome-menus bug
[01:39] <ogra> WHAT ????
[01:39] <ogra> Mar 20 01:16:31 localhost shutdown[21527] : shutting down for system halt
[01:40] <jdub> srbaker: there's no blessed system yet
[01:40] <srbaker> jdub, would something that's Growl compatible be appreciated, or are there more gnomeish ways to accomplish this?
[01:41] <jdub> it's a huge discussion with no good answer for you
[01:41] <srbaker> oh
[01:42] <srbaker> so if i just ran out and wrote it, it might be a good idea
[01:42] <jdub> could be
[01:42] <srbaker> i kinda want a growl compatible system for other software i'm using anyways.
[01:43] <lupusBE> jdub, how long does it take for packages to be in http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/g/ ?
[01:44] <jdub> i'm not sure
[01:45] <lupusBE> and why have a changelog file for every release? 
[01:45] <thom> lupusBE: happens every 12 hours
[01:45] <thom> um, howelse would you do it?
[01:45] <lupusBE> yeah I'm testing update-manager and so I was wondering :)
[01:46] <lupusBE> just the latest changelog and a regular expression to get the right changelog :)
[01:47] <tseng> jdub: BEAGLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[01:47] <lupusBE> I would only show the difference between the current installed one and the latest
[01:47] <jdub> tseng: ssssshhhh
[01:48] <tseng> :(
[01:48] <thom> lupusBE: can't work (same changelog and regex) think about security point releases
[01:48] <zul> tseng: are you running with inotify on or off?
[01:48] <tseng> off.
[01:48] <zul> ok just curious
[01:49] <lupusBE> ic thom 
[01:49] <lupusBE> the only really missing thing is that update-manager does not show the current installed version of the package
[01:50] <lupusBE> but maybe that is just my personal taste :)
[01:50] <thom> no reason why it should is there?
[01:50] <lupusBE> a option to turn this info on would be kind of nice tho :)
[01:51] <lupusBE> like I said :) personal taste :p
[01:51] <lupusBE> so the only real bugger is that changes are placed on the server after 12 hours
[01:52] <lupusBE> I mean every 12 hours :)
[01:52] <lupusBE> can't be done when a packages is put in the repository?
[01:52] <srbaker> anyone know fo a gnome app for writing docbook?
[01:53] <zul> check google
[01:53] <daniels> jdub: beagle!
[01:54] <jdub> SHUT UP THE LOT OF YOU
[01:54] <zul> jdub: pssst....ok
[02:01] <ogra> night all :(
[02:03] <exarkun> hey all.  I hope this is not an inappropriate forum for this question, but I was wondering about having Python's bsddb module linked against libdb4.3 instead of libdb4.2.  Anyone looked into this?
[02:06] <exarkun> need to take off, but if anyone knows the answer my client will be logging, and I will appreciate it :)  ubuntu has been really awesome so far for me, by the way :)
[02:20] <dholbach> good night everyone
[02:20] <crimsun> night daniel
[02:21] <dholbach> night daniel :-)
[02:23] <Amaranth> i give up
[02:24] <Amaranth> someone else can make a menu editor
[02:24] <ajmitch> Amaranth: that bad, is it?
[02:25] <zul> night
[02:25] <ajmitch> Amaranth: I'd love to, if you can find me the spare time ;)
[02:25] <Amaranth> ajmitch: It's horrible. Shitty docs, gnome-menus bugs, etc, etc, etc.
[02:25] <ajmitch> that's all part of what makes programming fun
[02:26] <Amaranth> The problem is I'm going that exact same thing kmenuedit is doing and gnome-menus ignores both of us. So I think gnome-menus doesn't even support what I need.
[02:31] <srbaker> jdub, i suppose if i wrote said notification program in ruby, it's not as likely to get accepted, right?
[02:31] <srbaker> jdub, python is probably the best choice if i want the "gnome community" to use it?
[02:31] <jdub> srbaker: gnome and ubuntu, yeah
[02:31] <srbaker> k
[02:34] <srbaker> i'm working on it now
[02:34] <srbaker> thanks
[02:41] <srbaker> jdub, this is going to be less work than i thought.  there are Python, PHP, and Ruby implementations of the protocol for *notifying* to growl.
[02:41] <srbaker> jdub, a growl server will be easy as pie
[02:43] <Amaranth> anyone know if seb gets on IRC on the weekends?
[02:50] <zenlol> why are the iso mirrors so slow
[02:53] <crimsun> zenlol: can't use bittorrent?
[02:53] <mdz> zenlol: because a lot of people are downloading kubuntu
[02:54] <mdz> the torrents should be much faster
[02:54] <daniels> isn't galago the notification stack of choice these days?
[02:55] <wasabi> mdz, whoops. I woulda not sent you an email and just pung you here if i had seen ya. ;)
[02:55] <zenlol> are there torrents for the daily installs
[02:55] <mdz> wasabi: I'm hiding; I'm off-duty ;-)
[02:55] <wasabi> ahh.
[02:55] <mdz> zenlol: no, not yet
[02:55] <zenlol> i am totally over here on abroadband connection just to get a new daily image and cant ;_;
[02:55] <wasabi> then don't read your email!
[02:56] <zenlol> at least kub is getting some exposure
[02:56] <zenlol> :)
[02:57] <jdub> hrm,
[02:57] <jdub> lamont: around?
[02:57] <jdub> how is the DVD image size going now that we've beefed up main so significantly?
[02:57] <lamont> yeah
[02:57] <zenlol> oh is there going to be a kde/gnome dvd now?
[02:58] <tseng> zenlol: a dvd w/ all of main
[02:58] <lamont> jdub: dunno
[02:58] <jdub> zenlol: we've had DVD images throughout hoary
[02:58] <zenlol> oh wow
[02:58] <zenlol> how did I miss this?
[02:58] <lamont> jdub: but they're all of supported, not all of main.  or something like that
[02:58] <tseng> last weeks was ~3gb iirc
[02:58] <lamont> zenlol: cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/weekly-dvd/...
[02:59] <zenlol> oh cool
[02:59] <jdub> lamont: oh, so we're now distinguishing between "ubuntu supported seed" and "main, the combination of kubuntu and ubuntu seeds"?
[03:00] <wasabi> poor folks. one of these days I'm going to unload Eclipse on you and blow your dvd out of the water. =/
[03:00] <lamont> jdub: there's no boot foo to distinguish which you weant..
[03:00] <lamont> want
[03:00] <lamont> really a Kamion question though
[03:01] <jdub> lamont: no, i just mean contents of CD, not what it chooses to install
[03:01] <lamont> a dvd with either the union of {kubuntu,ubuntu}-supported, or with all of main, would be good.
[03:01] <lamont> jdub: exactly
[03:01] <lamont> the generation process is currently driven by the seeds, IIUC
[03:02] <jdub> right, so it's not currently all of main?
[03:02] <lamont> hence there's an ubuntu dvd and a kubuntu dvd
[03:02] <lamont> that is my understanding.
[03:02] <lamont> haven't actually looked though
[03:02] <jdub> oh
[03:02] <tseng> oh..
[03:02] <lamont> ISTR Kamion telling me that when I was asking
[03:02] <jdub> weird
[03:03] <mdz> jdub: feel free to forward the google thing to sounder if you feel it's appropriate
[03:03] <mdz> jdub: I don't like to be too competitive there ;-)
[03:03] <tseng> wasabi: hah, like Eclipse will ever be in main
[03:03] <mdz> tseng: it will
[03:03] <tseng> ouch.
[03:04] <jdub> mdz: woos ;)
[03:04] <tseng> mdz: do we have a free java solution?
[03:04] <wasabi> tseng, I am *so close*
[03:04] <wasabi> Yeah.
[03:04] <tseng> hm, neat
[03:04] <wasabi> I have it running in GCJ right now.
[03:04] <mdz> tseng: yes, several
[03:05] <wasabi> Just a matter of knocking down packages in multiverse.
[03:05] <wasabi> There are Eclipse packages on mentors.debian.net if you wnat to try them out.
[03:05] <mdz> jdub: the DVD has always corresponded to supported via germinate; it's only recently that main and ubuntu-supported have diverged
[03:06] <lamont> where does extra wind up?  universe?
[03:07] <wasabi> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/contrib/e/eclipse/
[03:08] <Amaranth> is gcc 4.0 out?
[03:09] <lamont> Amaranth: given the -0pre6ubuntu6 version in our archive, I'd say not unless it's been in the last day or 2
[03:09] <Amaranth> heh
[03:09] <Amaranth> think it'll make it in time for hoary+1?
[03:11] <lamont> /usr/bin/ld: BFD 2.15 assertion fail ../../bfd/elflink.c:6081
[03:11] <lamont> ew.
[03:11] <lamont> well, the pre6 packages are in main in hoary...
[03:21] <Amaranth> err, prerelease software is in main?
[03:24] <mdz> lamont: extra winds up in universe, yes
[03:46] <jdub> mdz: is ntpdate enabled on the livecd?
[03:47] <mdz> jdub: yep
[03:47] <jdub> hrm
[03:53] <jdub> we should so get rid of desktop-base
[03:55] <jdub> mdz: can push desktop-base from depends to recommends in gnome-session?
[03:59] <calc> Amaranth: gcc 4.0 should be out relatively soon, fedora is based on it
[04:00] <calc> Amaranth: so its likely to be out by may
[04:04] <mdz> jdub: interesting; I didn't know about desktop-base
[04:04] <mdz> jdub: should we use the same alternatives that it does for the artwork?
[04:04] <mdz> (not for hoary, obviously)
[04:12] <jdub> mdz: possibly, though i think our plan at mataro was more flexible
[04:19] <Amaranth> *sigh*
[04:19] <Amaranth> were is seb when you need him? :)
[04:19] <Amaranth> he seems to do the only one i've talked to that has a clue as to how the new menus work
[04:21] <calc> Amaranth: how fdo menus work, or what?
[04:21] <Amaranth> Yeah.
[04:21] <calc> i know :)
[04:22] <calc> its a s3kr17
[04:22] <Amaranth> translation? :P
[04:22] <Amaranth> secrlt?
[04:22] <jdub> have you read the spec?
[04:22] <calc> Amaranth: secret
[04:22] <Amaranth> many times
[04:22] <daniels> jdub: some implementation details (particularly to do with merging) can be very hairy, to be fair
[04:23] <calc> Amaranth: so what questions do you have
[04:23] <Amaranth> daniels: _very_
[04:23] <Amaranth> Ok, if I create new entries in ~/.local/share/applications it all works good and they show up in the menu
[04:23] <jdub> daniels: good first question though :)
[04:24] <Amaranth> However if I create testingthis.desktop in the user dir and the system dir it always uses the system one even though seb said it shouldn't.
[04:24] <jdub> "you must be as smart as this stick to use the internet"
[04:24] <jdub> "and/or smarter"
[04:24] <Amaranth> I've tried toying with <MergeFile> and etc and I get nothing
[04:24] <calc> Amaranth: is it in the same subdir?
[04:24] <jdub> what's the order of inclusion of local dirs?
[04:24] <lamont> jdub: "you must be this tall to use signals"
[04:24] <calc> Amaranth: yea it should use the user one as an override
[04:25] <Amaranth> I have testingthis.desktop in ~/.local/share/applications and /usr/share/applications
[04:25] <Amaranth> the user one just has a different comment
[04:25] <calc> hmm ok
[04:25] <Amaranth> Once I figure this out I can release 0.2 of my editor. :)
[04:25] <Amaranth> kmenuedit sets things up the same way I do so I'm lost.
[04:27] <jdub> yeah, i can reproduce that
[04:27] <jdub> move the file to a different name, get the entry
[04:27] <jdub> same name, it uses the system entry
[04:28] <Amaranth> filename or Name?
[04:28] <jdub> looks like a nice bug in gnome-menus
[04:28] <jdub> filename
[04:28] <jdub> i'm reproducing what you said :)
[04:28] <calc> you should be able to use the same filename with hidden attribute to delete entries as well
[04:28] <calc> not sure if you noticed that already Amaranth 
[04:28] <Amaranth> so if i created my entries with a prefix they'd show up?
[04:29] <jdub> hrm, i haven't put any information to override it though
[04:29] <calc> Amaranth: in gnome as long as the filename isn't exactly the same it shows the one in ~/.local
[04:29] <calc> it should be overriding it though with the same filename in ~/.local
[04:30] <jdub> it should automagically override it, just because it has the same name?
[04:30] <Amaranth> Yeah, the same Name
[04:30] <calc> jdub: the same filename
[04:30] <calc> not based on "Name: "
[04:30] <Amaranth> err, it shouldn't do it based on Name?
[04:30] <jdub> calc: mmm, that's what i meant. bad context. :)
[04:31] <calc> np
[04:31] <Amaranth> It should do it on filename and Name, iirc.
[04:31] <calc> Amaranth: i'm not sure if its really even stated in the spec
[04:31] <jdub> Name is too hard -> translation
[04:31] <calc> but kde at least does it off the filename alone
[04:31] <Amaranth> It does it based on Name now, doesn't it?
[04:31] <Amaranth> Or does it produce a totally new entry?
[04:32] <calc> so if you had two things with the same "Name=" but filenames are different and they go in different parts of the menu then gnome squashes them?
[04:32] <calc> Amaranth: doesn't seem to help having the same "Name= "
[04:33] <Amaranth> yeah, this is screwed
[04:33] <Amaranth> i think gnome-menus is doing the cascade backwards
[04:33] <calc> so the next question is it screwed generally or something broken in just the ubuntu version
[04:34] <Amaranth> all my testers have been hoary users :/
[04:34] <daniels> Amaranth: there've been a few threads on xdg lately about merge order -- maybe it's worth hitting the archives
[04:34] <daniels> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2005-March/thread.html
[04:34] <daniels> iirc
[04:34] <Amaranth> i've been looking all over for something like that
[04:42] <calc> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2005-March/006227.html <- nice email
[04:42] <calc> unrelated to what you are looking for though
[04:52] <tseng> jdub: oh hey i forgot to mention this
[04:52] <tseng> jdub: libgmime-cil seems to be missing dep on libgmime2.1, minor showstopper for beageld
[04:53] <wasabi> that post makes me want to start mailing .desktops to people just to prove a point
[05:01] <Amaranth> wasabi: hehe
[05:01] <wasabi> Why can't we just have a .desktop file LINK
[05:01] <wasabi> [Desktop File Thing] 
[05:01] <wasabi> Link=/usr/share/applications/otherprogram.desktop
[05:02] <jdub> tseng: bizaare
[05:03] <tseng> jdub: rock on, dude.
[05:03] <jdub> might check there's a new gmime too
[05:03] <jdub> ooh, there is
[05:06] <calc> i read through the list
[05:06] <calc> Amaranth: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2005-March/006278.html
[05:06] <calc> that seems to be the post daniels was talking about
[05:07] <calc> i didn't look at the gnome menu code but the email almost makes it sound like it does treat the home dir as lower priority than the global dir
[05:07] <calc> which is backwards of what it should be
[05:07] <Amaranth> err, shit
[05:07] <Amaranth> yeah, that's what i'm reading too
[05:08] <calc> so i guess you'll have to beat on the gnome menu maintainer/author
[05:08] <Amaranth> i can't read enough C to figure out where that even happens in gnome-menus
[05:08] <calc> what package is gnome-menus in?
[05:08] <Amaranth> gnome-menus :P
[05:08] <jdub> gnome-menus :)
[05:08] <calc> heh
[05:08] <Amaranth> maybe you could get a patch into hoary at least?
[05:09] <wasabi> WOw this Exec thing frightens me.
[05:09] <Amaranth> i don't speak glib either so most of it is nonsense to me without looking up something in the manual every other line
[05:09] <wasabi> I swear, if I ever have to clean up a linux email virus at work, I will shoot somebody.
[05:09] <crimsun> get your gun ready
[05:09] <Amaranth> hmm
[05:11] <Amaranth> the original infected source could wget from the evil guys box (probably still someone else's 0wned box) then when it spreads it it could have it's children wget from itself
[05:11] <Amaranth> that'd be a bitch to track
[05:11] <wasabi> Amaranth, it'd be like every windows virus ever.
[05:11] <calc> the only places where "XDG" is even mentioned in gnome-menus is comments
[05:11] <Amaranth> wasabi: Yeah.
[05:11] <calc> so how does it even check the env var?
[05:11] <Amaranth> calc: I think the panel calls it with that stuff. :/
[05:12] <calc> looks like you'll need to email Mark McLoughlin and Havoc
[05:12] <calc> they are the two people listed in authors
[05:13] <Amaranth> wow, that was nice
[05:14] <Amaranth> i clicked the open button on the gedit toolbar and it crashed
[05:15] <calc> i managed to make the kernel crash by trying to eject a cdrom from nautilus :)
[05:15] <Amaranth> ouch
[05:24] <Amaranth> oh, nevermind
[05:25] <Amaranth> nice, gnome-menus doesn't handle <MergeFile> recursion
[05:25] <calc> so does it leave that to a higher level?
[05:25] <calc> or just ignore it completely
[05:25] <Amaranth> ignores it
[05:25] <Amaranth> nice little FIXME comment
[05:25] <Amaranth> mine if i paste it? it's 6 lines
[05:26] <zenlol> looks like I wont be getting a new hoary image tonight
[05:26] <Amaranth> FIXME * if someone does <MergeFile>A.menu</MergeFile> inside A.menu, or a more elaborate loop involving multiple files, we'll just get really hosed and eat all the RAM we can find
[05:26] <calc> fun
[05:26] <jdub> haha
[05:27] <zenlol> i hate slashdot with the fire of a thousand suns
[05:27] <zenlol> lol
[05:27] <calc> Amaranth: ah i misread what you said as it doesn't handle mergefiles at all :)
[05:29] <Amaranth> i wonder if i can do some XDG_DATA_DIRS trickery to make this work
[05:31] <wasabi> Great. I just wrote my virus. =/
[05:31] <calc> Amaranth: just use kubuntu ;)
[05:31] <Amaranth> meh, i don't like kde
[05:34] <Amaranth> i've managed to complete hose my menu, nice
[05:34] <lamont> mdz: ppc has Total 345 package(s) in state Needs-Build, all others have no needs-build
[05:34] <lamont> (hoary-test, that is)
[05:34] <zenlol> Amaranth, so your tool in its current state is dangerous?
[05:34] <Amaranth> zenlol: not the copy you have, no
[05:34] <zenlol> oh ok 
[05:35] <zenlol> i dont know how I am going to get caught up with hoary now
[05:36] <zenlol> I suppose I will have to come up here again tomorrow
[05:36] <lamont> thom?
[05:37] <Amaranth> i can get one set of menus or the other, can't make it give me both
[05:39] <Amaranth> ok, i've completely wiped my menus and i don't know how to get them back :P
[05:39] <Amaranth> time to end this session
[05:43] <calc> wasabi: distribute it to people now :)
[05:43] <wasabi> calc, i have some pics of natalie portman for you!
[05:43] <calc> heh
[05:44] <wasabi> Actually, I have it working.
[05:44] <fabbione> morning
[05:44] <wasabi> I'm just now putting the finishing touches on it, making it grep ~/.evolution for email addresses. ;)
[05:44] <calc> btw i think gnome in hoary doesn't update its desktop until you logout for some reason
[05:44] <zul> hey fabbione 
[05:44] <calc> is gamin broken?
[05:44] <calc> hmm now it works
[05:44] <calc> it wasn't working earlier :\
[05:51] <Amaranth> calc: Sometimes it updates, sometimes it doesn't
[05:51] <Amaranth> calc: Same with the menus
[05:51] <calc> heh
[05:52] <calc> sounds great :\
[05:52] <Amaranth> heh
[05:52] <Amaranth> it doesn't help that killing gnome-panel breaks gaim and rhythmbox
[05:52] <Amaranth> omfgwtfhax
[05:52] <Amaranth> my user override is working now
[05:53] <calc> what did you do to it?
[05:53] <Amaranth> restarted my session
[05:53] <Amaranth> logged out and back in
[05:53] <calc> thats fucked up
[05:53] <Amaranth> very
[05:53] <calc> it can see it if named something different, but not if its named the same?
[05:53] <calc> until you log out i mean
[05:54] <Amaranth> it must not even check the name, just the id
[05:54] <calc> iirc kde did need its cache rebuilt for it to work
[05:54] <calc> not sure if there is something similiar on gnome to run
[05:54] <calc> running kbuildsycoca would fix it under kde
[05:54] <Amaranth> heh, no wonder kmenuedit runs that so much
[05:55] <Amaranth> woo, now i can release 0.2 tonight
[05:55] <calc> so you just have to tell the user to log out to see the changes ;)
[05:55] <Amaranth> yep
[05:56] <tsume> thres something wrong :)
[05:56] <tsume> sshd isn't listening on 127.1
[05:56] <Amaranth> so i can set Hidden in .desktop file to remove it from the menu?
[05:56] <Amaranth> If that works it's GNOME specific.
[05:57] <calc> erm i am pretty sure that worked under KDE when i was building menu-xdg
[05:57] <calc> does it not work anymore?
[05:57] <Amaranth> Hidden=True?
[05:57] <calc> yea or whatever the syntax is
[05:57] <Amaranth> might be a KDE only thing
[05:58] <calc> well it should work in both
[05:58] <calc> since it should use the users file logically
[05:58] <calc> and if the users file is marked as Hidden then it should not show anything
[05:58] <Amaranth> damnit
[05:58] <Amaranth> this is really screwed up
[05:58] <Amaranth> testingthis.desktop is using the user version, gcalctool.desktop isn't
[05:59] <calc> yea Hidden only exists specifically for the reason i mentioned above
[05:59] <calc> "Hidden should have been called Deleted. It means the user deleted (at his level) something that was present (at an upper level, e.g. in the system dirs). It's strictly equivalent to the .desktop file not existing at all, as far as that user is concerned. This can also be used to "uninstall" existing files (e.g. due to a renaming) - by letting make install install a file with Hidden=true in it."
[06:00] <calc> so if it doesn't work in both gnome/kde then its a bug in the desktop
[06:00] <calc> erm menu parsing code (desktop is ambigious as to .desktop or DE)
[06:01] <Amaranth> hey, it works
[06:01] <Amaranth> where did you paste that from?
[06:02] <calc> desktop entry spec
[06:03] <calc> the section that lists the sections of a .desktop file
[06:07] <Amaranth> woo, my delete button works now
[06:22] <Amaranth> brb
[06:23] <Amaranth> well, it more or less works :P
[06:23] <Amaranth> buggy as hell, i blame gnome-menus
[06:26] <Amaranth> nope, can't blame gnome-menus
[06:27] <Amaranth> wtf is wrong with this thing. i've checked and python-xdg and it's cascading correctly (based on what paths it uses, anyway) but user overrides still don't work
[06:27] <Amaranth> err, checked with python-xdg
[06:29] <zul> right im off to bed...
[06:32] <crimsun> l8r
[06:41] <zenlol> o
[06:48] <srbaker> can someone here recommend a good test runner script?
[06:48] <srbaker> i like Ruby's default Rakefile that runs all of the tests under test/ 
[06:49] <Amaranth> why oh why did i subscribe to ubuntu-users?
[06:50] <crimsun> you like the deluge, eh?
[06:51] <Amaranth> it's odd, gmail is applying ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-users labels to some mails
[06:52] <Amaranth> i wonder if it got forwarded between the two
[06:54] <mdz> lamont: that includes universe?
[07:59] <crimsun> oh my, no wonder I haven't been able to set my-id
[08:01] <sabmoc> Where do we submit art for the the Mascot Competition? 
[08:11] <dholbach> goooood morning
[08:13] <sabmoc> hello
[08:20] <Amaranth> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=21048
[08:29] <jdub> sabmoc: it says in the announce email
[08:30] <tritium> Amaranth, for what, your menu editor?
[08:30] <Amaranth> tritium: yeah
[08:31] <tritium> that's great that you did that :)
[08:32] <Amaranth> try it :)
[08:32] <tritium> Amaranth, I'll take a look at it.
[08:37] <jdub> tseng: ha ha, libdbus-cil doesn't depend on dbus-1
[08:38] <whiprush> hey jdub, was the work I did tonite even handy at all? Or did I miss the bus completely?
[08:39] <jdub> whiprush: tseng said you had modified scherger's beagle packages, which were... not good. did any of the arslinux crew do gsf-sharp stuff, etc?
[08:40] <sabmoc> zmog! sorry jdub, had only 4hours sleep today
[08:40] <schweeb> whiprush: you finish them?  I'm back now
[08:40] <whiprush> well, I did both. I did my own from scratch and did a set based on scherger's packages. scherger's were crack though.
[08:40] <jdub> whiprush: (i've been maintaining beagle packages since 0.0.2 locally, they've just never been usefully releaseable.)
[08:41] <whiprush> I'm sure between schweeb, metallikop, and myself that we could crank out the gsf one's pretty easily.
[08:41] <schweeb> tomorrow morning (afternoon) I could help crank something out
[08:41] <sabmoc> Are any Ubuntu-dev's Canadian?  
[08:41] <whiprush> If you don't plan on doing them then we could do them tomorrow pretty easily I'm sure.
[08:41] <schweeb> got a couple beers in me, so as soon as I pass out, I'll be out like a rock
[08:41] <jdub> schweeb: jbailey is canadian
[08:42] <jdub> whiprush: go for it :)
[08:42] <schweeb> s/schweeb/sabmoc/
[08:42] <jdub> atm
[08:42] <jdub> we have
[08:42] <whiprush> on it.
[08:42] <jdub>         Evolution-Sharp?        yes
[08:42] <jdub>         gsf-sharp?              no
[08:42] <jdub>         gst-sharp?              no
[08:42] <jdub>         Epiphany Extension?     no (missing dependencies)
[08:42] <jdub>         Mozilla Extension?      yes
[08:42] <jdub>         wv1?                    no
[08:42] <jdub>         Enable Network          no
[08:42] <jdub> 
[08:42] <jdub> wv1 we won't do, because we only ship wv2
[08:42] <sabmoc> jbailey, https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CanadianTeam
[08:42] <jdub> (i don't get why they use 1, might be worth a poatch to support 2)
[08:42] <dholbach> jdub: wv?
[08:42] <jdub> it wants epiphany 1.2, not 1.6
[08:43] <jdub> dholbach: wordview library
[08:43] <jdub> dholbach: as in msword
[08:43] <dholbach> ah i see
[08:43] <jdub> so really, it's just gsf and gst
[08:44] <dholbach> lucky they depend on a library and not openoffice.org-something-dev :-)
[08:44] <whiprush> ok, we'll work on gsf. Should have something for you in less than 24 hours. It's sleepy time over here.
[08:45] <jdub> sleep is for the week!
[08:45] <jdub> :-)
[08:45] <jdub> meanwhile, i'm going to upload beagle
[08:45] <sabmoc> jdub, then I must be the strongest zombie on earth.
[08:45] <jdub> hrm
[08:45] <jdub> need an elmo
[08:45] <whiprush> jdub: tseng had me work this up: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryBeagleRunningHowto
[08:45] <jdub> elmo: around?
[08:45] <jdub> oh man
[08:46] <whiprush> it should cover what we need.
[08:46] <jdub> another beagle page on the wiki? :)
[08:46] <whiprush> well, I'm thinking, with an upload this should be the one page.
[08:46] <jdub> yeah
[08:46] <jdub> would be good to point to beagle wiki
[08:47] <jdub> that gets a lot of eyeballs
[08:47] <whiprush> I got that at the bottom
[08:47] <whiprush> I could move it up though.
[08:47] <jdub> Uploading via ftp beagle_0.0.7-0ubuntu1.dsc: done.
[08:47] <jdub> Uploading via ftp beagle_0.0.7.orig.tar.gz: done.
[08:47] <jdub> Uploading via ftp beagle_0.0.7-0ubuntu1.diff.gz: done.
[08:47] <jdub> Uploading via ftp beagle_0.0.7-0ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
[08:47] <jdub> Successfully uploaded packages.
[08:47] <jdub> tseng: ^^^
[08:47] <whiprush> woo.
[08:48] <jdub> i'll put it up elsewhere too
[08:48] <whiprush> also ... according to ifolder-dev, the gaim-workgroup plugin is mostly working. Although, it's probaly so post-hoary.
[08:48] <whiprush> but I have a feeling it'll be demoed at brainshare this week.
[08:48] <jdub> cool
[08:49] <schweeb> whiprush: hah, you gotten ifolder running again, or you still unable to compile?
[08:50] <whiprush> it's all compilable and works and stuff. The problem is that it depends on a novell server. The interesting p2p stuff is still being worked on.
[08:50] <schweeb> last time I checked it out of CVS it wouldn't compile
[08:50] <whiprush> so it's still rather useless to people without an ifolder server.
[08:50] <schweeb> heh
[08:51] <whiprush> all indications seem to point towards the server portion being closed source. and the p2p stuff being Free.
[08:52] <whiprush> though, according to nat, the p2p stuff should work behind NAT (the other kind of NAT, not the guy) and over local networks using some kind of zeroconf implementation.
[08:54] <dholbach> jdub: what's your opinion on  https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7888 ? should that kind of seed change be possible?
[08:58] <jdub> dholbach: i don't think that's a problem
[08:58] <jdub> dholbach: request a change to mdz/myself
[08:58] <jdub> dholbach: hrm, and elmo
[08:59] <dholbach> jdub: ok... i'll doublecheck and talk to you three again
[09:07] <dholbach> looks like even libgtkmm2.0-1c102 could be removed from main
[09:08] <sabmoc> Is Matthias Urlichs ever on IRC?
[09:09] <sabmoc> dumb question, of course he is, but whats his nick?
[09:09] <jdub> sabmoc: smurfix 
[09:09] <sabmoc> ok
[09:09] <smurfix> sabmoc: ?
[09:09] <sabmoc> smurfix, https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CanadianTeam
[09:11] <sabmoc> smurfix, I got your email this morning, read the info on LoCo and wrote a quick page.
[09:12] <sabmoc> I dont really know if thats how the page should look
[09:12] <smurfix> sabmoc: nice. Nicely verbose too ;-)
[09:13] <smurfix> sabmoc: It's OK, every team has their own style, as long as the info is there I don't really care.
[09:13] <dholbach> jdub, mdz, elmo: i'd like to request seed change, according to https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7888
[09:13] <jdub> dholbach: mail dude, mail :-)
[09:13] <froud> jdub: did you get the Yelp stuff sorted for enrico and the docteam, so Ubuntu docs show in top level
[09:13] <sabmoc> smurfix, cool, so now what? haha
[09:14] <jdub> froud: no, one upstream change required
[09:14] <jdub> froud: i also need packaging changes from docteam, but i'll mail about those
[09:14] <froud> what is the change and who to speak to, perhaps I can press upstream for it
[09:15] <smurfix> sabmoc: You know the answer to that question. ;-)
[09:15] <froud> one less fo ryou to do :-)
[09:15] <jdub> it's fine, i talk to shaunm every day
[09:15] <sabmoc> smurfix, yes, now I go to bed
[09:15] <sabmoc> cya
[09:15] <froud> yeah, shaunm, but he needs kicking
[09:16] <jdub> he's fine
[09:16] <froud> not talk :-)
[09:16] <froud> jdub: ok, leave it with you then
[09:23] <jdub> smurfix: do you use de_DE.UTF8@euro on hoary?
[09:23] <jdub> (with the utf-8 dash)
[09:24] <smurfix> jdub: That depends (I use English strings but everything else German). Why?
[09:24] <jdub> smurfix: just want to know the optimal german locale
[09:25] <jdub> whether it's @euro or not
[09:26] <ajmitch> evening
[09:26] <smurfix> jdub: Probably yes
[09:34] <dholbach> smurfix: what does  locale  say?
[09:34] <dholbach> is elmo's mail adress @ubuntu.com ?
[09:36] <jdub> dholbach: james.troup@
[09:36] <dholbach> jdub: yeah... i wondered, if he was @canonical.com
[09:36] <smurfix> dholbach: A weird mix of en_* and de_* -- the way my system is set up is not useful for most other people
[09:36] <dholbach> jdub: thanks
[09:37] <dholbach> smurfix: aren't the @euro locales obsolete by now?
[09:37] <bob2> dholbach: everyone has both afaik
[09:37] <smurfix> dholbach: Umm, let me check
[09:38] <dholbach> bob2: hmmm: daniel@bert:~$ grep de_DE /etc/locale.gen
[09:38] <dholbach> de_DE.UTF-8 UTF-8
[09:38] <dholbach> daniel@bert:~$
[09:38] <dholbach> jdub: mail sent
[09:41] <doko> kamion: the thing I found is getlocale(3)
[09:41] <doko> kamion: oops, gettext(3)
[09:42] <smurfix> dholbach: you're right, they end up being identical.
[09:43] <smurfix> jdub: so it seems you can drop the @euro. Check /usr/share/i18n/locales/*@euro whether they do anything special.
[09:44] <smurfix> jdub: Might make sense to even exclude them from localegen, building two identical locales doesn't help anybody.
[09:44] <jdub> mmm
[09:47] <smurfix> I got thrown off by the date in the locale files, its date says 2000-06-24, which seems wrong, the switch was on 2002-01-01
[09:48] <dholbach> smurfix: i recall them being in longer than 2002-01-01
[09:49] <bob2> dholbach: oh, I mean @ubuntu.com, @canonical.com :-)
[09:49] <dholbach> smurfix: for example: euro-support's initial version is from Sun, 28 Oct 2001
[09:49] <dholbach> bob2: ah... ok ;-)
[09:49] <smurfix> dholbach: Depends on whether you talk stock market, banking, or cash
[09:50] <dholbach> smurfix: we're talking about packages and locales being generated ;-)
[09:50] <smurfix> dholbach: (in real-world terms ;-)
[09:51] <smurfix> dholbach: Anyway, somebody clearly modified the locale files without updating the timestamp in it.
[09:51] <dholbach> bob2: now if the MOTUs get @ubuntu.com mail adresses, the pattern will be out of order :-)
[09:51] <bob2> dholbach: hehe, true
[09:54] <ajmitch> dholbach: that may happen one day :)
[09:55] <dholbach> ajmitch: did i complain yet? :-)
[09:55] <ajmitch> nope
[09:55] <Kamion> jdub: run away screaming from .UTF-8@euro
[09:55] <dholbach> Kamion: why not chuck them out? :-)
[09:56] <Kamion> jdub: there's a bug open about dropping them; they're totally useless, the only reason it's hard to drop them is that we'd need to figure out how to transition users who are already using them
[09:56] <Kamion> dholbach: ^-
[09:56] <dholbach> i see
[09:56] <Kamion> anyway the non-.UTF-8 @euro locales are still useful, but *.UTF-8 == *.UTF-8@euro
[09:57] <Kamion> various things (like the upgrade handling in locales, and localechooser) are careful to avoid *.UTF-8@euro
[10:06] <jdub> Kamion: eeruuugh
[10:17] <schweeb> argh
[10:20] <schweeb> jdub: guess you'll get your gsf-sharp tomorrow, it's 4:20am (5:20am?) here... I'm stuck on a fakeroot issue (I think), and I'm sure whippy's not much further
[10:21] <jdub> schweeb: heh, go to sleep :)
[10:22] <schweeb> ** (/usr/share/dotnet/bin/mcs/mcs.exe:10949): CRITICAL **: : shared file [/root/.wapi/shared_data-omglaptop-3-0]  open error: Permission denied
[10:22] <schweeb> ^^^ that makes me sad
[10:23] <jdub> schweeb: dude
[10:23] <schweeb> think I should look at some reference mono pkgs, heh
[10:24] <jdub> put the following in rules
[10:24] <jdub> export MONO_SHARED_DIR=$(CURDIR)
[10:24] <jdub> clean::
[10:24] <jdub>         rm -rf $(MONO_SHARED_DIR)/.wapi
[10:24] <schweeb> !!
[10:24] <schweeb> jdub: first mono related pkg, heh
[10:25] <schweeb> cdbs rules, btw... metallikop intro'd me to it the other day
[10:28] <schweeb> omg <3 that worked
[10:30] <schweeb> sleepy time, night
[11:18] <sabmoc|zombie> I really need to sign up to the mailing lists
[11:18] <schweeb> sabmoc|zombie: gmane is nice
[11:19] <sabmoc|zombie> haven't heard of it
[11:20] <schweeb> http://www.gmane.org/
[11:21] <schweeb> mailing list -> NNTP gateway... they archive just about everything
[11:21] <sabmoc|zombie> schweeb, do we have a build for it somewhere? I dont see it.
[11:21] <schweeb> well
[11:21] <schweeb> read harder :D
[11:21] <schweeb> they archive for you
[11:22] <sabmoc|zombie> oh, I havnet even looked at the url, i thought it was an app :)
[11:22] <schweeb> http://www.gmane.org/
[11:22] <schweeb> err
[11:22] <schweeb> To read the mailing lists stored in Gmane, point your news reader to news.gmane.org
[11:22] <sabmoc|zombie> ok :) thanks
[11:22] <herve> gmane just rocks!
[11:22] <schweeb> yep
[11:24] <sabmoc|zombie> schweeb, sounds like homebrew-redbull
[11:27] <schweeb> well, I didn't actually mix them
[11:27] <schweeb> but I interspersed them
[11:28] <herve> as long as you realize caffeine is a threath to your health...
[11:32] <schweeb> these days breathing is a threat to your health
[11:33] <mirak> I have a question about sources kernel. When I install kernell tree, I got /usr/src/linux-source-2.6.10/  . Now the kernel is 2.6.10-5 . How can I know what version are the sources ? are the sources exactly the one of 2.6.10-5 ? I don't get how it works
[11:34] <mirak> the best solution I have found is to us the headers instead of the kernel sources to be sure I will compile modules against the good sources
[11:34] <mirak> I got no answer in the other chan, so I ask there, sorry
[11:35] <schweeb> what are you trying to accomplish?  compiling a module, or compiling a kernel?  to compile a module, I think the general practice /is/ to compile against the headers for your running kernel
[11:36] <mirak> I want to compile kqemu
[11:36] <mirak> wich need to be linked I think
[11:36] <mirak> ok thanks
[11:45] <sabmoc|zombie> holy crap thats a lot of mail
[11:49] <_d4vid> hi all
[11:49] <sabmoc|zombie> hello _d4vid 
[12:19] <pitti> Hi folks
[12:19] <dholbach> hey pitti
[12:19] <jdub> morning pitti 
[12:20] <pitti> Hi dholbach, jdub, what's up?
[12:20] <jdub> our distrowatch position
[12:20] <jdub> but that happens every morning
[12:20] <dholbach> pitti: working on the next motu report
[12:20] <jdub> ;-)
[12:20] <ogra> hi pitti
[12:20] <jdub> dholbach: remember this email address... ubuntu-news@lists.ubuntu.com
[12:21] <jdub> who here likes xfce?
[12:21] <jdub> anyone on the motu team mention xfce?
[12:21] <dholbach> jdub: crimsun does :-)
[12:21] <Treenaks> jdub: I like it, but only on machines with <128M memory
[12:21] <herve> jdub, don't tell me you trust distrowatch :-)
[12:21] <jdub> dholbach: oh, of course!
[12:21] <Treenaks> (of which I don't have any, atm)
[12:22] <jdub> herve: i trust it, for the data it provides
[12:22] <dholbach> jdub: can everyone post on ubuntu-news?
[12:23] <jdub> it's moderated
[12:25] <daniels> tseng: do we have beagle love yet?
[12:25] <daniels> jdub: yeah, libdbus-cil needs to depend on dbus-glib-1-dev
[12:25] <jdub> daniels: i uploaded it a little while ago
[12:26] <daniels> jdub: you uploaded gmime, yeah, but did you upload dbus?
[12:26] <daniels> er, dbus-mono
[12:26] <jdub> ubuntu's highest ever hits on distrowatch was 2012
[12:26] <jdub> er
[12:26] <jdub> 3012
[12:26] <ogra> boah
[12:26] <ogra> more then 3000 ?? 
[12:26] <Treenaks> jdub: wait for hoary final
[12:27] <jdub> kubuntu's, with only two days of stats, was 3006
[12:27] <jdub> day 1: 3006, day 2: 1508
[12:27] <ogra> any statistics about the highest value ever on distrowatch ?
[12:27] <daniels> jdub: scorchio!
[12:28] <ogra> i would bet we passed it....
[12:28] <jdub> ogra: one sec
[12:32] <jdub> holy crap
[12:33] <jdub> top five
[12:33] <jdub> knoppix: 2921
[12:33] <jdub> kubuntu: 3006
[12:33] <jdub> ubuntu: 3012
[12:33] <jdub> slackware: 3551
[12:33] <jdub> fedora: 4201
[12:33] <jdub> 
[12:33] <ogra> wow
[12:33] <daniels> slackware?
[12:33] <daniels> i wouldn't think they would've gotten that high
[12:33] <jdub> stats will be interesting at hoary release
[12:34] <ogra> we'll pass 4000, i'm sure
[12:35] <smurfix> jdub: Do these numbers have dates?
[12:35] <jdub> smurfix: these numbers are "ever"
[12:35] <jdub> i can probably put a date to a number
[12:35] <dholbach> bbl
[12:35] <smurfix> jdub: that's what I meant
[12:36] <daniels> ogra: if those fixes are all to X, you're on
[12:36] <ogra> daniels, word ;)
[12:36] <daniels> or maybe 3 to xorg and 2 to mozilla-firefox
[12:36] <daniels> i think thomarse needs a break
[12:37] <ogra> i'm sure i wouldnt have to solve them :)
[12:37] <daniels> heh
[12:37] <ogra> since we will pass fedora by far
[12:37] <jdub> 132 days ago
[12:37] <jdub> FC3 release
[12:39] <Burgundavia> FC4 looks to be more breakage
[12:39] <Burgundavia> now that RHEL4 is out the door
[12:39] <Burgundavia> the engineers at RH are going to play
[12:42] <Goshawk> please can someone update this page ? --> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/USplash
[12:42] <Goshawk> there is a link that is outdated
[12:42] <jdub> Goshawk: the wiki is designed such that you can update the page
[12:43] <Goshawk> jdub, i'm trying to do that
[12:43] <Goshawk> can i use the same account of the ubuntu forum?
[12:43] <jdub> no
[12:44] <Goshawk> ok
[12:51] <obe1> anyone ever use the iconv() functions of the GNU libc library?
[12:59] <pitti> hm, my swsusp experiment was horrible...
[01:02] <ogra> pitti, :(
[01:03] <pitti> ogra: going to sleep worked pretty well, but the screen went black on resume
[01:03] <pitti> ogra: does it work for you?
[01:03] <ogra> nope not at all...
[01:03] <ogra> only hibernate works here
[01:04] <pitti> erm, isn't hibernate == swsusp?
[01:04] <daniels> pitti: sounds like a gtk bug to me
[01:04] <ogra> ut thats caused by the fact that i have no key sending events (acer laptops only send keycodes from the suspend button)
[01:04] <pitti> daniels: of course :-)
[01:04] <ogra> pitti, hibernate = suspend to disk.....
[01:04] <pitti> yeah, that was my impression
[01:04] <ogra> with a shutdown in the end
[01:05] <pitti> ogra: you use the hibernate package?
[01:05] <ogra> and resume on boot
[01:05] <pitti> ogra: or does your gdm actually offer hibernate?
[01:05] <ogra> yep
[01:05] <pitti> I only ever got it offered on the live cd, which is kind of pointless :-)
[01:05] <ogra> my gnome-session offers it on logout
[01:05] <pitti> so I did "echo disk | sudo tee /sys/power/status"
[01:05] <tseng> i only see it when pressing f10 in the username box
[01:06] <tseng> in gdm.
[01:06] <tseng> its not an icon.
[01:06] <pitti> s/status/state/
[01:06] <pitti> anyway, with init=/bin/bash, it doesn't even go to sleep
[01:06] <pitti> and with a normal boot I get a black screen :-(
[01:07] <pitti> well, at least suspend to ram works fine
[01:17] <ogra> morning thom 
[01:31] <daniels> ogra: itym 'afternoon'
[01:34] <ogra> heh
[01:46] <mjg59> daniels: Around?
[01:50] <daniels> mjg59: of course not
[01:50] <daniels> mjg59: whattup?
[01:50] <crimsun> uh oh, it's the daniels ghost
[01:51] <mjg59> daniels: So, I have these laptops
[01:51] <daniels> mjg59: are you going to send them to me?
[01:51] <mjg59> Pressing the external video out key switches on the CRT output, but doesn't connect any pipes
[01:52] <daniels> mjg59: hm
[01:53] <daniels> mjg59: so i8xx
[01:53] <mjg59> What magic do I need in xorg.conf to say Connect the CRT output to the pipe the LFP is using and get it so the LFP is the default output?
[01:53] <daniels> mjg59: i assume the pipes would need to be configured in xorg.conf
[01:53] <daniels> err
[01:53] <mjg59> And do this without it noticing that I've told it there's a CRT there and so outputting 800x600 on the LFP because there's no DDC response?
[01:54] <zenwhen> are there any estimates on how much traffic went through the cd image server last night because of slashdot?
[01:54] <daniels> ah
[01:54] <netdur> hey, I have two "silly" things, not sure if I should put in bugzilla (I just registred)
[01:54] <daniels> mjg59: Option "MonitorLayout" "LFP+CRT,NONE"
[01:54] <netdur> 1) KDE add it's apps into Gnome menu
[01:54] <mjg59> daniels: Ok, let me give that a go
[01:54] <daniels> mjg59: assuming your LFP is on pipe A, which holds true for most i815/i830; else, NONE,LFP+CRT
[01:54] <daniels> mjg59: also, Option "DisplayPresence"
[01:55] <netdur> 2) please add some empty documents (archive.tar, oo.o templates) to ~/Templates
[01:56] <daniels> mjg59: er, Option "DevicePresence".  whatever.
[01:57] <netdur> should I use bugzilla for them?
[01:57] <daniels> netdur: for the Templates thing, sure
[01:57] <thom> daniels: #7942, i'm tempted to fix it in firefox anyway
[01:58] <herve> if we can vote for bugs, I would vote for that templates thing
[01:58] <herve> even provide a patched package
[01:59] <Kamion> patches are so much more useful than votes that they aren't even on the same scale of usefulness
[02:00] <thom> voting on bugzilla is such a horrible idea
[02:00] <herve> you would consider a revision from a not-even-motu member?
[02:00] <mjg59> daniels: Ok, that /almost/ works
[02:00] <Kamion> MOTU == upload privileges, nothing to do with whether patches would be accepted
[02:01] <mjg59> daniels: However, the state is then either both displays on or CRT only on
[02:01] <daniels> thom: disable back/forward per default?
[02:01] <daniels> thom: iirc that will make the side buttons on mice scroll horizontally, which is confusing
[02:01] <thom> daniels: make horizontal scrolling actually work correctly
[02:01] <daniels> mjg59: hm
[02:01] <herve> you talk about a patch, I talk about a n+1 package with templates
[02:01] <herve> ready to upload
[02:01] <daniels> thom: well, as I said, since it's just mapped to buttons, this will fuck up real mice
[02:01] <daniels> thom: aiui
[02:02] <daniels> herve: right, and you can put a diff somewhere so that one of the existing motu or core members can review and upload it
[02:03] <herve> I'll take a look
[02:05] <thom> daniels: i think you're misunderstanding, i just want to fix firefox so if people do enable it, it works
[02:05] <netdur> buzilla form is not easy enough to use... what's "Assign To"?
[02:06] <ogra> mjg59, my laptop recently started to shut down unintentionally.....could this be caused by any of the swsuspend patches ?
[02:06] <mjg59> ogra: Under what circumstances? What hardware?
[02:07] <daniels> thom: in what sense, 'fix'?  change the default horiz scroll behaviour to actually scrolling as opposed to back/forward, or?
[02:07] <ogra> mjg59, acer 1520 amd64 
[02:07] <thom> yes
[02:07] <ogra> mjg59, circumstances: none...it just starts a clean shutdown out of the blue....
[02:08] <daniels> thom: right.  the way horiz scroll is implemented, last I checked, was by extra buttons, not an axis.
[02:08] <ogra> mjg59, nothing the "goiong down for shutdown now..." in the logs 
[02:08] <daniels> thom: so the side buttons on mice with them will now be mapped to scroll left/scroll right, as opposed to back and forward
[02:08] <daniels> thom: i think keeping those working is more valuable than fixing it for the synaptics people tbh
[02:08] <mjg59> ogra: No real chance of it being swsusp
[02:08] <mjg59> Could be acpi patches
[02:08] <mjg59> What does /var/log/acpid say?
[02:08] <herve> ogra, warmth trouble?
[02:09] <ogra> mjg59, it happened several times during last week overnight and i suspected my cat sitting on the powerbutton, but yesterday it happened twice whille i was typing
[02:09] <thom> meh meh meh
[02:09] <thom> daniels: ok, understood
[02:09] <helix> does celso providelo irc?
[02:11] <daniels> thom: your call :)
[02:11] <ogra> mjg59, may i PM you log excerpts...bwt /var/log/acpid isnt user accessible...
[02:12] <mjg59> Sure - acpid isn't supposed to be use accessible
[02:12] <daniels> fabbione: bah ... ogle is broken in the same way mplayer was
[02:19] <mjg59> daniels: What's the easiest way to add extra options to the default xorg.conf?
[02:19] <mjg59> (This can be a hardware specific package)
[02:19] <daniels> playing DVDs over NFS (where you've just done dd if=/dev/hdd of=rza-germany.dvd bs=1M) ... kinda shit
[02:20] <daniels> mjg59: you ... what?  er ... no
[02:20] <daniels> mjg59: for breezy, there'll be a sweet infrastructure you can hook in to
[02:20] <daniels> mjg59: hoary?  you're screwed
[02:20] <Kamion> helix: "cprov", but I'm not sure he ever turns up here
[02:20] <daniels> mjg59: just intelligently trash it with an awk script in postinst and then we'll leave it alone until the user explicitly runs dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[02:20] <mjg59> daniels: It's, uh, somewhat necessary
[02:20] <helix> Kamion: ok. (he signed my key but I never met him...)
[02:20] <daniels> mjg59: ?!?
[02:21] <Kamion> helix: heh. Brazilian Canonical employee
[02:23] <ogra> helix, he signed your key ? how is that possible if you never met him...weird
[02:23] <Kamion> ogra: some people are a bit careless at keysigning parties
[02:23] <ogra> seems like
[02:23] <helix> ogra: I was in matar
[02:23] <ogra> helix, me too
[02:23] <helix> but my key wasn't on the ksp sheet or anything
[02:23] <helix> and I didn't meet him
[02:24] <helix> so I'm really quite confused. :)
[02:24] <ogra> heh
[02:25] <helix> Kamion: yeah, if I'd taken part in the ksp, that would be one thing...
[02:25] <Kamion> helix: weird
[02:25] <helix> quite
[02:25] <Kamion> mail him?
[02:26] <helix> yeah, just wanted to see if he was on irc first. thanks.
[02:29] <jdub> helix: oh, hi.
[02:29] <helix> hello, jdub :)
[02:30] <mjg59> ogra: power.sh isn't the shutdown script
[02:30] <mjg59> So, uh, acpid doesn't log the machine being shut down
[02:30] <mjg59> Which leaves me confused about what might be doing it
[02:34] <ogra> wierd...i'll talk to fabbionne tomorrow if it could be a kernel issue and if there is a possibility to track it...i tried the 2.6.11 bk snapshot for two weeks some time ago, there was no such behavior
[02:34] <ogra> mjg59, thats why i suspected any of our patches being responsible
[02:36] <mjg59> ogra: But it's a clean shutdown?
[02:36] <ogra> yep
[02:36] <mjg59> Crack
[02:36] <mjg59> Any chance of setting up process accounting?
[02:36] <ogra> mjg59, its the same as if i press the powerbutton during a desktop session
[02:37] <ogra> mjg59, sure, if you explain me how to do that or pint me towards some docs 
[02:37] <ogra> s/pint/point
[02:38] <mjg59> apt-get install pacct
[02:38] <mjg59> Sorry, that's not it
[02:38] <ogra> cool
[02:38] <ogra> oh
[02:38] <mjg59> apt-get install acct
[02:39] <mjg59> Then after it shuts down, run lastcomm and send me the last bit
[02:40] <ogra> mjg59, ok, i'll have to wait until it does that again....hopefully not before tonight ;)
[02:40] <mjg59> ogra: Heh. Thanks!
[02:40] <ogra> thanks as well :)
[02:43] <mjg59> Man, this machine is so much faster than my X49
[02:43] <mjg59> (X40)
[02:43] <daniels> mjg59: and four times the weight?
[02:43] <ogra> heh
[02:43] <daniels> i just want them to make an x40 with some sort of radeon
[02:44] <daniels> i mean, having an r480 and an amd64 in there with that form factor
[02:44] <daniels> and also running cool and silent
[02:44] <daniels> with a 250gb disk
[02:44] <daniels> but it's probably not going to happen
[02:44] <bob2> haha
[02:44] <bob2> they can have an all metal unobtanium case
[02:45] <mjg59> Yeah, massively heavier and worse battery life
[02:45] <mjg59> I want to have a 1600x1200 screen that's 10.4" big
[02:45] <mjg59> And for it to be less than a kilo
[02:45] <mjg59> And have 10 hours of battery life
[02:46] <ogra> and very very good glasses to see something on this screen ;)
[02:46] <daniels> ogra: large font sizes
[02:46] <daniels> there's a lot to be said for a large dpi
[02:46] <ogra> daniels, tell that to the webdesigners ;)
[02:47] <mjg59> r300.sf.net is starting to look good
[02:47] <mjg59> Working Quake3 and Tuxracer
[02:48] <daniels> mjg59: yeah.  unfortunately someone who knows more about PCIE than me needs to get PCIE GART support going.
[02:49] <jdub> mjg59: hmm. interesting.
[02:52] <bob2> hm, my x40 screen has developed a few bright white blobs
[02:53] <daniels> bob2: yours too?
[02:54] <jdub> oh dudes
[02:55] <jdub> scary stuff
[02:55] <jdub> that's x40 chlamydia
[02:55] <bob2> the dell's have a similar problem
[02:55] <bob2> except it manifests itself by putting "dell" logos on top of the lid
[02:56] <_BIJ_> hi @ all... 
[02:58] <Mitario> hi everyone
[03:00] <_BIJ_> first of all i got to say that you guys did a great job with the array 7 release of hoary... i've got a little proposal for the console... why not enable completion by default? for example if i write "apt-get install" and press TAB then it should list all possibilities... this can be done by editing the bash.bashrc in the /etc folder... i think this should be implemented by default... what do you guys think about this?
[03:00] <_BIJ_> brb
[03:02] <mjg59> Hrngh.
[03:03] <mjg59> I /think/ I've tracked down all the i915GM PCI IDs now
[03:08] <daniels> mjg59: feel free to send me a phat patch
[03:10] <mjg59> daniels: It's all kernel stuff, X is fine
[03:11] <daniels> mjg59: oh, woo
[03:11] <zul> yeah woo for you
[03:12] <mjg59> W00t. With that, I get working Xv and DRI
[03:33] <lamont> mdz: main only - need to pull the other into the archive before it can build
[03:34] <lamont> and when I said ppc 345, it had just grabbed oo.o and oo.o2 :-)  still at 345
[03:36] <exarkun> hey all.  I hope this is not an inappropriate forum for this question, but I was wondering about having Python's bsddb module linked against libdb4.3 instead of libdb4.2.  Anyone looked into this?
[03:37] <jbailey> sabmoc|zombie: Thanks.  You may want to subscribe to the page on the wiki so that it will email you changes to the page.
[03:39] <_d4vid> ky all
[03:40] <ogra> daniels, could you give me a hint on this ? https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7658 i suspect i need to add xinerama support to the lock window
[03:41] <ubuner_> hello, I am trying to customize the Ubuntu hoary livecd and I remove the original filesystem.cloop, and I use debootstrap to build a new ubuntu in /mnt/ubuntu, and now I want to compress /mnt/ubuntu  become  filesystem.cloop,  I use mkisofs -iso-level 4 -R -U -hide-rr-moved -cache-inodes -no-bak -pad /mnt/ubuntu | nice -5 create_compressed_fs - 65536 > filesystem.cloop
[03:41] <ubuner_>  is that a correct way?
[03:42] <daniels> ogra: damnit, I was going to report that tomorrow, if that's what I think it is :)
[03:42] <daniels> ogra: and yeah, you need to add Xinerama support
[03:42] <daniels> ogra: so rather than being at the centre of the display, you need to be at the centre of the primary screen for that display
[03:42] <ogra> oki, i'll read the docs about that then :)
[03:42] <daniels> ogra: i.e. centre on :0.0, not :0
[03:42] <ogra> okay, thanks, thats what i wanted to know :)
[03:42] <daniels> rad
[03:42] <daniels> time for me to sleep now -- g'night :)
[03:42] <ogra> night
[03:42] <zenwhen> oh ok
[03:44] <daniels> Quote:
[03:44] <daniels> Friend: usblp0: on fire
[03:44] <daniels> Jdong: Lol, buggy printer drivers
[03:44] <daniels> Jdong: It's a humorous catch-all when the USB printer driver doesn't understand the printer
[03:44] <daniels> Friend: No, you don't get it.
[03:44] <daniels> Friend: It's actually _ON FIRE_
[03:55] <zenwhen> daniels, isnt that a really old joke
[03:56] <zenwhen> i kinda laughed because he thought his story was something new and he pretended it actually happened.
[04:28] <doko> keybuk: status: resolved, solution: later look strange ...
[04:53] <mjg59> Urgh. Crack.
[05:13] <ogra> mjg59, just had the crash again while i was out with the dog, seems the command that ran was spamc and the machine was very hot i think its a tempeature isse, will write a script ot monitor it
[05:13] <ogra> s/ran/last ran
[05:14] <mjg59> ogra: Ok - my suspicion would be that something in your hardware is triggering a shutdown for thermal reasons
[05:15] <mjg59> daniels: If my current suspicions are confirmed, it's going to be really quite easy to sort DRM resume on i830+...
[05:15] <ogra> jup, thats what i suspect too, since i dont run the nvidia driver this nightly shutdowns could be caused by some 3d screensaver
[05:15] <ogra> i'll monitore the temp and will see if it raises shortly before shutdown...
[05:24] <jbailey> thom: ping?
[05:26] <thom> jbailey: ack
[05:28] <jbailey> thom: re: hdparm.  md pointed out to me that removing +x from a file in /etc/dev.d is a convenient way of disabling a script.  I notice that a few other bits in there are symlinks to elsewhere, though.  What do you think of the idea of moving that snippet to /usr/share/hdparm, using it for /etc/init.d as well, and just symlinking to it?
[05:31] <thom> hrm, that's a good idea
[05:32] <thom> be back in a couple of hours, getting a train home from cambridge
[05:36] <dholbach> re
[05:36] <smurfix> ogra: I had random shutdowns every few days with my old mainboard. I suspect the emergency power sensor on the mainboard returned spurious nonsense. :-/
[05:37] <ogra> smurfix, in fact the machine is very hot, so the sensor may be right, the thermal situation of this laptop isnt the best overall...
[05:37] <smurfix> ogra: Bah. No laptop CPU in there?
[05:38] <ogra> smurfix, amd64 :)
[05:38] <smurfix> ogra: OUCH
[05:38] <mjg59> daniels: ARGH.
[05:39] <smurfix> ogra: So how long does that thing's battery keep up with the demand, half an hour?  :-/
[05:39] <ogra> smurfix, its very nice, but the fan grid is exactly the place where the thig sits on my right shank
[05:39] <ogra> smurfix, about 1,25h but the thing is just about a month old....
[05:39] <mjg59> daniels: Resume works fine with the kernel i915 driver, but the DRI code insists on a version number of at least 1.2
[05:40] <smurfix> Hey sabdfl 
[05:40] <ogra> yay sabdfl 
[05:40] <sabdfl> hi all
[05:42] <dholbach> sabdfl: hey! :-)
[05:45] <mjg59> Hrngl.
[05:45] <mjg59> Right. Everything works now except the massively awkward ACPI problem.
[05:46] <sabdfl> mjg59: which laptop?
[05:47] <mjg59> sabdfl: An HP
[05:47] <mjg59> Working 3D over suspend/resume!
[05:49] <sabdfl> nice! i thought dri killed swsusp?
[05:49] <smurfix> mjg59: Cool. Can you do the same thing to mine please?  :-/
[05:49] <mjg59> sabdfl: Nah, should be mostly fixed up now
[05:49] <mjg59> smurfix: What sort of hardware
[05:49] <mjg59> sabdfl: -29 kernel should make everything immensely happy
[05:50] <smurfix> mjg59: Samsung P35. I'll have to retry with the latest kernel.
[05:50] <sabdfl> mjg59: even the X40?
[05:50] <mjg59> sabdfl: Yeah
[05:50] <mjg59> smurfix: What sort of video hardware does that have?
[05:50] <smurfix> mjg59: Radeon 9600
[05:50] <mjg59> -29 isn't out yet - you'll have to wait until Tuesday or so
[05:50] <mjg59> smurfix: Oh, right. No, you lose :)
[05:51] <smurfix> mjg59: Bah
[05:51] <mjg59> fglrx has effectively no suspend/resume support at the moment
[05:51] <mjg59> Might be fixed for Breezy
[05:51] <smurfix> mjg59: I can possibly try radeonfb or vesa
[05:52] <mjg59> Nah. If you want 3D on Radeon 9500+, you probably don't get suspend/resume
[05:53] <smurfix> mjg59: I can live without 3D more easily than I can live without suspend, to be honest.
[05:54] <mjg59> Heh
[05:54] <smurfix> The only program regularly exercising 3D support here is the screensaver
[05:54] <mjg59> Just use the radeon driver rather than the fglrx one, then
[06:03] <dholbach> Kamion: are you here?
[06:08] <Mitario> hmm, can anyone succesfully checkout and build gnome-applets HEAD here (with ubuntu autoconf etc.)
[06:14] <tsume> I'm trying to install vmware, and its not working
[06:14] <srbaker> yaye
[06:14] <tsume> any clue why it says...
[06:14] <srbaker> so my growl compatibility is coming along well
[06:15] <tsume> The directory of kernel headers (version 2.6.10) does not match your running 
[06:15] <tsume> kernel (version 2.6.10-5-386).  Even if the module were to compile successfully,
[06:15] <tsume> it would not load into the running kernel.
[06:15] <tsume> srbaker: hmm
[06:16] <tsume> srbaker: growl? have I heard of it?
[06:16] <mjg59> tsume: Install linux-headers-2.6.10-5-386
[06:16] <srbaker> tseng, growl.info
[06:17] <tsume> mjg59: I thought I did, I'll see if its just me
[06:18] <srbaker> growl is for apps to send non-intrusive notifications to the user
[06:18] <srbaker> gnarl is the gnome implementation of growl
[06:20] <tsume> mjg59: I'm not seeing the headers for my kernel
[06:21] <tsume> mjg59: the kernel binary would be named what?
[06:22] <mdke> tsume, sudo apt-get install linux-headers-2.6.10-5-386
[06:33] <mdke> yw
[06:44] <srbaker> anyone know of a good testrunner for python?
[06:44] <srbaker> perhaps a script that will run all of the tests under "test/" named "test_*.py" ?
[06:44] <mdz> srbaker: help(unittest)
[06:44] <janc> srbaker : read the docs  :)
[06:45] <srbaker> i *am* reading the doics, and i didn't find anything that would do what i want
[06:47] <janc> http://docs.python.org/lib/misc.html
[07:01] <tsume> mdke: thank you
[07:02] <tsume> mdke: is there a search program on the web for the archives?
[07:02] <mdke> tsume, which archives do you mean?
[07:03] <tsume> mdke: a web search for any available packages
[07:03] <tsume> description, name, etc
[07:03] <mdke> i just use apt
[07:03] <mdke> or synaptic
[07:03] <tsume> apt can search description?
[07:05] <mdke> tsume, see PM
[07:09] <nasdaq7> @find visio
[07:09] <mdke> O.O
[07:10] <schweeb> nasdaq7: not a warez channel, thanks
[07:10] <mdke> pmsl
[07:10] <mdke> its an idea tho
[07:11] <nasdaq7> :)
[07:11] <nasdaq7> i was way away
[07:12] <mdke> nasdaq7, this about as far off a warez channel that you can get
[07:12] <nasdaq7> :)
[07:13] <Amaranth> do you think having invalid desktop files still show up in the menus is a good thing?
[07:13] <calc> Amaranth: invalid in what way?
[07:14] <Amaranth> i just ran desktop-file-validate on all my menu desktop files and a lot of them are failing
[07:14] <calc> ah well yea filing bugs on them would be a good idea
[07:14] <mdke> heh
[07:14] <calc> we don't need .desktop files becoming like html
[07:14] <Amaranth> no, i think i made these entries :P
[07:14] <Amaranth> /usr/share/applications/users.desktop: error: value of key "Categories" is a list of strings and must end with a semicolon
[07:14] <Amaranth> i didn't make that one
[07:15] <Amaranth> /usr/share/applications/screensaver-properties.desktop: error: required key "Encoding" not found
[07:15] <zenwhen> you still blowin stuff up Amaranth 
[07:15] <Amaranth> zenwhen: yeah
[07:15] <zenwhen> lol
[07:15] <mdke> lol
[07:15] <Amaranth> i'm going to fix all these and see if it helps my editor any
[07:15] <Amaranth> i wonder why i'm going to tell the people that used my editor when they find out i broke all the entries they editting
[07:16] <zenwhen> your older safer editor is treating me well.
[07:16] <Amaranth> I've been putting Terminal=True or Terminal=False instead of true and false
[07:16] <mdke> Amaranth, tell em its testing
[07:16] <Amaranth> zenwhen: it breaks things too
[07:16] <zenwhen> oh
[07:16] <zenwhen> it hasnt for me yet
[07:16] <Amaranth> read up
[07:16] <Amaranth> the terminal thing
[07:17] <calc> Amaranth: Terminal isn't required in a .desktop file
[07:17] <Amaranth> no but i put it in all the ones i edit
[07:17] <calc> ok
[07:18] <calc> and the True vs true doesn't seem to be mentioned in the spec so both should work i guess
[07:20] <calc> well it somewhat says it should be "true" but doesn't say it in a really strong way
[07:20] <calc> its mentioned in a previous paragraph before they mention that the text is case sensitive
[07:34] <dholbach> bbl
[07:45] <Amaranth> i give up again
[08:20] <WebMaven> Still needing some ZCML help here, if anyone can assist.
[08:37] <WebMaven> Still needing some ZCML help here, if anyone can assist.
[08:39] <koke> Mitario: ping?
[08:40] <thom> WebMaven: i suspect you're in the wrong channel
[08:42] <Mitario> koke, pong
[08:43] <shaya> the evince package claims to have a thumbnailer for nautilus.  I don't see any evidence of it
[08:50] <thom> Kamion: ta, resyncing now
[08:54] <pitti> Hi folks
[08:57] <dholbach> hi pitti 
[09:00] <pitti> jbailey: ping
[09:00] <ogra> mdz ?
[09:01] <ogra> hi pitti, how is the water situation in dresden ?
[09:01] <pitti> ogra: pretty calm
[09:01] <pitti> ogra: folks living in the vicinity of the Elbe might get wet cellars
[09:01] <ogra> ah, sounds good, the news look worrying
[09:02] <pitti> ogra: but nothing particularly unusual :-)
[09:02] <ogra> heh
[09:02] <pitti> ogra: I'm glad that I don't have a TV to be worried :-)
[09:03] <ogra> i'm glad to hear its better then reported :)
[09:03] <pitti> ogra: good reason for my parents to clean up their cellar for a change :-)
[09:03] <ogra> Mithrandir, did you contact Ove ?
[09:04] <ogra> heh
[09:04] <Mithrandir> ogra: argh, forgot :/
[09:04] <ogra> still two days until the meeting :)
[09:05] <Mithrandir> yeah, what time is it again?
[09:05] <dholbach> 16:00 utc
[09:05] <Mithrandir> I'll do it straight away
[09:05] <ogra> Mar 22nd 2005 at 1600 UTC
[09:05] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar
[09:05] <ogra> great, thanks :)
[09:06] <schweeb> pitti: where does it lie?
[09:07] <pitti> schweeb: I try to gzip a few additional files before assembling the deb
[09:07] <pitti> schweeb: the binary/foo:: example does something similar
[09:07] <pitti> schweeb: i. e. the tutorial suggests that binary/foo is executed right before dh_builddeb
[09:07] <pitti> schweeb: but in fact it's executed right _after_ dh_builddeb, which makes it kind of pointless
[09:08] <pitti> schweeb: and install/foo: is too early for me
[09:08] <schweeb> how about binary-install/foo::
[09:08] <pitti> schweeb: (install sucks as well, it calls the commands right after dh_installdirs, when no files have actually been isntalled yet)
[09:10] <sabmoc> Would svg fonts be really cool or really lame?
[09:10] <sabmoc> on a desktop, for example
[09:10] <schweeb> isn't that essentially what TTF is?
[09:10] <sabmoc> I have no idea. Ok
[09:11] <dholbach> pitti: isn't there something like DEB_COMPRESS_EXCLUDE ? (only the other way round?)
[09:12] <sabmoc> #ubuntu-docs
[09:12] <mdz> ogra: ?
[09:12] <ogra> mdz, i dont see wine on the CC agenda...
[09:13] <pitti> can you be bribed to tell me how? :-)
[09:13] <pitti> dholbach: no, unfortunately not
[09:13] <pitti> dholbach: you can give additional files to dh_compress
[09:13] <pitti> dholbach: but not per-package, only globally, and I have a multi-deb package
[09:13] <dholbach> pitti: i try to understand whats going on in rules/debhelper.mk at $(patsubst %,binary-fixup/%,$(DEB_PACKAGES)) :: binary-fixup/%: binary-strip/% - but that must be the right stanza
[09:13] <pitti> dholbach: and debian/package.compress is really lame, too :-(
[09:13] <mdz> ogra: if you would like to discuss something which is not on the agenda, feel free to modify the agenda
[09:13] <schweeb> sabmoc: yes, truetype fonts are scalable vector fonts
[09:14] <ogra> mdz, the TB wanted to....i mailed scott (no confirmation yet) and Mithrandir just mailed Ove
[09:14] <mdz> ogra: if they are not coming to the meeting, there is nothing to talk about
[09:14] <pitti> dholbach: common-binary-predeb-arch could help :-)
[09:14] <ogra> mdz, i'll put it there, even if we dont have confirmation yet
[09:14] <mdz> ogra: so when you hear back from them, go ahead and change the agenda
[09:14] <ogra> mdz, ok
[09:14] <dholbach> pitti: what a charming name :-)
[09:15] <ogra> mdz, thanks
[09:15] <pitti> dholbach: but binary-predeb/package could work, too :-)
[09:17] <mjg59> Oh.
[09:17] <mjg59> I think I may have found out why the HP has strange lid switch behaviour.
[09:18] <Keybuk> oh?
[09:19] <pitti> dholbach, schweeb: yeah, binary-predeb does The Right Thing (tm) :-)
[09:19] <schweeb> excellent
[09:20] <mjg59> Keybuk: Hitting the lid switch sets a PCI configuration register. The only thing that clears that register is changing the display device using an ACPI call.
[09:20] <schweeb> what's the correct thing to do while making a package from CVS?
[09:20] <shaya> schweeb: yea, but I have 0 evidence that it hooks in with nautilus
[09:20] <schweeb> run autogen.sh in the rules? or beforehand
[09:20] <pitti> Dear jbailey, please rename binary to binary-postdeb and binary-predeb to binary. Love, pitti
[09:20] <mjg59> Or, alternatively, clearing the register myself.
[09:20] <mjg59> With setpci.
[09:21] <schweeb> shaya: well, it works for me...
[09:21] <shaya> you see mini pdfs in nautilus?
[09:21] <schweeb> yes
[09:21] <schweeb> tis a beautiful thing
[09:21] <shaya> I dont, I just get the stock pdf icon
[09:21] <shaya> hmph
[09:22] <dholbach> shaya: me too
[09:22] <schweeb> I could take a screenshot, hehe
[09:23] <schweeb> but I have Programming C# sitting in my home dir right now, and I see a thumb with the first page, with an acrobat symbol overlaid on it
[09:23] <schweeb> bbiaf
[09:23] <shaya> hmm
[09:23] <shaya> weird
[09:23] <shaya> it seems that evince-thumbnailer isn't in my gconf
[09:23] <shaya> but I see a schemea for it in the package
[09:24] <shaya> wonder if that's related
[09:29] <dholbach> oh nice... nautilus uses 70% of mem
[09:30] <shaya> I have no idea how evince-thumbnailer is supposed to hook in with nautilus
[09:31] <mjg59> OH CHRISTING ARGH.
[09:32] <zul> hmm?
[09:35] <shaya> dholbach, 
[09:35] <shaya> figured it out
[09:35] <shaya> or not
[09:35] <shaya> hmm
[09:37] <mroth> schweeb: this Programming C# PDF you mention.. is that a Free book, or commercial?
[09:41] <schweeb> mroth: *cough* commercial
[09:42] <schweeb> the O'Reilly book
[09:43] <schweeb> I own the hardcopy, so it's all legal (I think) ;)
[09:44] <mroth> schweeb: ahh.  we have an O'Reilly Safari subscription at work, but its all HTML, you cant get PDF versions of the books, so its kind of annoying.
[10:04] <jbailey> pitti: Can't do it.  Debian Policy section 4.8 gives the behaviour required from the 'binary' target.  binary-predeb is a hack used for debhelper to work around various make suckages.  cdbs2 will have a post-debhelper hook for things that you want to run after debhelper is done its job, a debhelper hook to hook new debhelper rules into (for the gnome folks, and others), and a pre-debhelper hook to run things
[10:04] <jbailey>  right before it.  Will that meet what you need?
[10:05] <pitti> jbailey: Hi!
[10:05] <pitti> jbailey: well, so far binary-predeb was exactly what I needed
[10:05] <pitti> jbailey: binary/foo:: is too late, at that time the deb is already built
[10:05] <pitti> jbailey: and binary/install:: is right after dh_installdirs, which is too early
[10:07] <jbailey> pitti: Right.  It's a bit of a confusing mess in there.  Ar eyou generating something in the target package directories?
[10:12] <jbailey> mroth: If you pay them money per chapter you can download the PDFs as well.
[10:12] <jbailey> mroth: Not usually worth it.  THe discounts they offer on purchasing books makes it worth just buying the dead-tree edition if that's what you really want.
[10:14] <doko> jdub: ping?
[10:22] <pitti> jbailey: I want to gzip some additional files
[10:22] <pitti> jbailey: dh_compress is not very extendable, so I do this with a find -exec gzip command in a rule
[10:24] <Mithrandir> pitti: dh_compress filename?
[10:25] <jbailey> pitti: Ah.  I probably would've used DEB_DH_COMPRESS_ARGS := $(shell find ...)
[10:25] <jbailey> Err, no :=
[10:25] <jbailey> =
[10:25] <jbailey> Need lazy binding on that one.
[10:28] <Mithrandir> ah
[10:30] <jdub> doko: pong
[10:30] <jdub> morning all
[10:31] <pitti_laptop> Mithrandir: dh_compress is not per-package and I'd like to have wildcards
[10:31] <pitti_laptop> Hi jdub 
[10:32] <doko> jdub: could you send me a patch for #2702 or tell me the correct categories to place it in System/Administration?
[10:32] <ogra> morning jdub 
[10:34] <jbailey> pitti_laptop: Ugh.  YEah, that's one problem with this module is that not every variable has a perpass version of it.  *sigh*
[10:34] <tseng> hi jdub.
[10:34] <jbailey> wasabi: See?  Lots of things I hate about cdbsv1 which desperately need fixing. =)
[10:38] <jdub> doko: i don't think it should be in System/Administration
[10:38] <jdub> doko: you can open this dialogue from every OOo app, can't you?
[10:40] <jdub> hrm, seems not
[10:40] <tseng> schweeb: package?
[10:40] <doko> jdub: no, you can't, at least not from Draw
[10:40] <tseng> is there a release?
[10:41] <schweeb> jdub wanted it for beagle 
[10:41] <tseng> yeah but, no tarball afaik
[10:41] <schweeb> yea, I just SVN'd it
[10:41] <tseng> gross.
[10:41] <tseng> oh well
[10:41] <schweeb> it's all I could find
[10:41] <schweeb> I /looked/ for a release
[10:41] <tseng> yeah there is none
[10:42] <tseng> oh gsf
[10:42] <tseng> im talking about gst.
[10:42] <schweeb> same situation
[10:42] <tseng> yeah.
[10:42] <schweeb> heh
[10:42] <schweeb> I think there's only even 2 pages of results for "gsf-sharp" on google
[10:42] <schweeb> and most of them revolve around beagle
[10:53] <thom> jbailey: as a simpler solution, we could just make sure that anyone upgrading from an old version of hdparm gets the dev.d script 755'd
[10:53] <pitti> mdz: here?
[10:56] <jbailey> thom: Yup, I had just been looking at it being an almost perfect copy of what's in the init.d anyway, and wanted to avoid code duplication.
[10:56] <thom> mmm
[10:57] <Amaranth> OddAbe19: ...
[10:57] <jbailey> OddAbe19: Umm.. Ouch?
[10:58] <thom> OddAbe19: for the last time, please turn off public aways off, especially blatantly offensive ones
[10:59] <ogra> OddAbe19, and please read and understand the CoC
[11:00] <doko> jdub: what about the location of the OOo printer setup?
[11:01] <jdub> doko: i'm trying to determine whether we really need a menu entry for it at all
[11:02] <ogra> jdub, i dont think so
[11:02] <doko> ok, just wanted to add it for the next upload
[11:02] <schweeb> everything should be picked up via CUPS or configurable from the app itself, IME
[11:02] <doko> schweeb: please send a patch
[11:02] <jdub> and you can always run it from the command line
[11:03] <jdub> doko: you can add add NoDisplay=true to the .desktop file
[11:05] <doko> jdub: ok
[11:05] <abelli> jdub: ciao
[11:06] <abelli> jdub: im not ubuntu-it's moderator anymore.
[11:06] <abelli> jdub: it has been so for about 3 weeks by now.
[11:06] <jdub> abelli: so why did someone have to mail me about it, rather than you telling me?
[11:07] <mdke> jdub, sorry that was me
[11:07] <abelli> jdub: i actually mailed mako.
[11:07] <abelli> and matthias.
[11:07] <abelli> mmm.. i think that i explicitly talked about the ml only with mako.
[11:07] <jdub> abelli: neither of whom admin the lists :)
[11:08] <abelli> jdub: mako was one of the ex administrators, and i thought it was related with loco teams.
[11:09] <jdub> abelli: so you agree that matthew.east@breathe.com and s.mestre@blueberrypie.it should be the new admins?
[11:10] <abelli> mmm im not concerned actually.
[11:10] <schweeb> jdub: is it beagle 0.0.7 that's goin in?
[11:10] <jdub> schweeb: yes, already uploaded
[11:10] <abelli> jdub: i can't say that sorry.
[11:10] <jdub> we need an elmo to process it
[11:11] <doko> jdub: should the printeradmin icon be hidden in KDE as well?
[11:12] <jdub> doko: if you add NoDisplay=true, it shouldn't appear in either...
[11:13] <Amaranth> Hidden=true?
[11:14] <Amaranth> or does that do something different?
[11:15] <jdub> abelli, mdke: so no one is listed on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ItalianTeam
[11:15] <abelli> jdub: i know.
[11:15] <doko> jdub: ok, it does have another entry in /usr/share/applnk for KDE.
[11:15] <jdub> abelli, mdke: can you guys mail matthias, mako and myself, to sort this out?
[11:16] <mdke> gosh
[11:16] <jdub> doko: ah, bong. you could get rid of that.
[11:16] <jdub> doko: but, let's do that next release. :)
[11:16] <Mithrandir> pitti: -p tells it what package to act on
[11:16] <abelli> jdub: why me, if i can ask.
[11:16] <jdub> abelli: because you were previously adminning the list, and ostensibly leading the locoteam.
[11:16] <pitti> Mithrandir: I know, but cdbs doesn't have a rule to influence per-package invocation
[11:17] <schweeb> wtf... beagle doesn't like my libdbus-cil :-/
[11:17] <pitti> Mithrandir: anyway, I already found a solution :-)
[11:17] <jdub> pitti: it does
[11:18] <Mithrandir> pitti: binary-install/$package::\ndh_compress -p$(cdbs_curpkg) $file1 $file2 &c :)
[11:18] <pitti> jdub: ?
[11:18] <jdub> pitti: binary-install/<package-name>::
[11:18] <jdub> (etc.)
[11:19] <pitti> Mithrandir: hmm, okay; this would call dh_compress again (which wouldn't hurt certainly)
[11:19] <pitti> Mithrandir: however, I just did "find -name ... -exec gzip '{}' \; 
[11:20] <pitti> Mithrandir, jdub: thanks, didn't know about binary-install; I used binary-predeb 
[11:20] <Mithrandir> pitti: you just want to compress stuff < 4k though
[11:20] <pitti> hmm, right
[11:21] <pitti> so dh_compress $(find ...), I guess
[11:21] <abelli> jdub: I have sent mako and matthias an email few hours ago.
[11:21] <abelli> jdub:  I have already threated the question with mako last week.
[11:21] <abelli> jdub: I wasn't very "happy" of mako's behaviour during all this problem.
[11:21] <abelli> jdub: He handled the ubuntu-italia subject with a sort of detachment, and things are gone upside down.
[11:21] <abelli> jdub: I strongly disagree with methods argued by this new group
[11:22] <abelli> .
[11:22] <jdub> abelli: meanwhile, i know nothing, and am loathe to change things without consensus.
[11:22] <mdke> perhaps I might help
[11:23] <mdke> is it necessary for moderators of a list to be team leaders?
[11:23] <mdke> the issue for me is that we have no moderators on a list
[11:24] <jdub> mdke: it's not necessary, no; the list has both admin and moderator access.
[11:25] <jdub> mdke: however, that's the kind of thing i'd prefer to leave up to a locoteam leader. atm, there is none listed on the wiki page.
[11:25] <mdke> jdub, there is no locoteam leader for the italian team
[11:25] <abelli> jdub:  I don't know who is this sebastiano, but he didn't too much (almost nothing) for ubuntu-italia.
[11:25] <jdub> so we have two problems :)
[11:25] <mdke> lol
[11:25] <mdke> can we change channel?
[11:25] <jdub> so the best course of action would be to add this to the community council agenda
[11:25] <jdub> so it can be sorted out there
[11:26] <mdke> k you're the boss
[11:26] <mdke> can you moderate my email through please?
[11:26] <abelli> jdub: please do not consider myself as available anymore, and let mako explain you why.
[11:27] <jdub> right
[11:27] <jdub> mdke: i'm going to make you listadmin in the mean time.
[11:28] <mdke> ok
[11:30] <abelli> jdub: can i consider myself free to leave?
[11:32] <jdub> abelli: you're always free to leave, it's just nice to let people know what's going on if you do.
[11:32] <jdub> abelli: that's in our code of conduct even. :)
[11:32] <abelli> jdub: mmm i mean now.
[11:33] <abelli> jdub: i mailed mako cc: ing matthias...
[11:33] <abelli> jdub: i was meaning: for this night.
[11:33] <jdub> you don't need to ask permission from me
[11:34] <abelli> jdub: i was talking with you, actually.
[11:34] <abelli> i did what i thought was right, no one told me to do anything more.
[11:34] <abelli> im sorry if i missed something.
[11:34] <abelli> it wasnt in my mind.
[11:34] <jdub> it's ok, it'll sort out
[11:35] <abelli> jdub: if you need any other information, I can keep going on chatting, otherwise it will be a pleasure to meet you again.
[11:35] <abelli> ahhh right.
[11:37] <schweeb> jdub: well, looks like my gsf-sharp pkg works for the most part
[11:37] <abelli> have good night/day everybody
[11:37] <abelli> *a*
[11:37] <abelli> ciao
[11:37] <jdub> schweeb: "for the most part"? :)
[11:38] <schweeb> I'm a packaging n00b
[11:38] <schweeb> gotta tweak a bit... add copyright, etc...
[11:39] <schweeb> oh shyte
[11:40] <schweeb> is inotify on by default anymore?
[11:41] <schweeb> might explain why best is dying on my lappy
[11:41] <mdz> nope
[11:42] <zul> hell no
[11:42] <schweeb> what's the kernel option?  inotify?
[11:42] <zul> yep
[11:43] <schweeb> hehe, last time I tried beagle, it was on by default *shrug* I just recalled that it prolly wasn't on anymore like 2mins ago
[11:43] <jdub> schweeb: hrm, that shouldn't matter
[11:43] <jdub> *best* is dying, or beagled?
[11:43] <schweeb> best
[11:43] <jdub> start beagled with --fg --debug
[11:43] <schweeb> ioctl(-1, INOTIFY_WATCH, {/home/chris/.gaim/blist.xml, 32776}) failedioctl: Bad file descriptor
[11:43] <jdub> oh
[11:43] <tseng> yeah schweeb 
[11:43] <tseng> jdub fix0red that
[11:43] <schweeb> then like 60 lines of output
[11:43] <jdub> use my packages that haven't got through NEW yet
[11:43] <schweeb> ahh
[11:44] <jdub> one sec
[11:44] <schweeb> URL to get?  they're not in archive yet rightr?
[11:44] <tseng> WOO!
[11:44] <schweeb> oh goodie
[11:44] <jdub> tseng: sorry, slept and forgot ;)
[11:44] <tseng> np
[11:44] <HrdwrBoB> no more sleeping!
[11:44] <jdub> uploading now
[11:45] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: yeah, now there's a valid solution
[11:46] <jdub> i386 binary and source up at people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/hoary/
[11:46] <tseng> damn right, beagle
[11:47] <schweeb> I was pretty good at the no sleep thing last night
[11:47] <tseng> jdub: apt-ftparchive :(O
[11:47] <schweeb> although I was too tired to think or accomplish anything, I was too anxious to sleep
[11:47] <schweeb> tseng: heh
[11:47] <tseng> meh.
[11:48] <jdub> tseng: kinda didn't want to make it apt-gettable because random crazy shit goes there
[11:50] <schweeb> ahh
[11:50] <schweeb> jdub: works <3
[11:52] <schweeb> jdub: hey, for svn'ed packages, is it appropriate to run autogen.sh and have the generated files in the .orig tarball, or should it be run via debian/rules at compile time?
[11:53] <dholbach> schweeb:   ./autogen.sh && make dist   should be fine
[11:53] <schweeb> where at?  in the orig, or run at compile time?
[11:53] <dholbach> orig
[11:54] <schweeb> good, that makes things simpler
[11:54] <dholbach> people will discourage you from having to build-depend on autotools
[11:54] <jdub> oh man
[11:54] <jdub> *another* new gaim
[11:54] <ogra> heh
[11:54] <ogra> they never stop
[11:54] <dholbach> they should start killing dialogs :-)
[11:55] <jdub> this is exactly the kind of wooly-headed release management that leads to foolish backporting
[11:55] <mdke> night all
[11:55] <jdub> we should stand outside the gaim developer's houses with pitchforks and flaming 42 gallon drums
[11:55] <schweeb> haha
[11:55] <schweeb> "adjust to our release management style now!"
[11:56] <ogra> jdub, have you seen that backports already has a bunch of hoary packages (ff 1.0.1, nx etc)
[11:56] <Keybuk> jdub: I prefer the idea of making Immendio make gossip do msn and friends w:p
[11:56] <jdub> Keybuk: mmm
[11:57] <jdub> ogra: maybe we should just do the pitchforks/burning-drums thing with the backports maintainers
[11:57] <ogra> hmm
[11:57] <dholbach> jdub: that sounds lovely
[11:59] <dredg> gah. new gaim-encryption too
[12:00] <dholbach> dredg: you should rss-subscribe to its releases :-)
[12:00] <dredg> dholbach: i've been away for the last few days. playing the catch-up-with-my-life game
[12:00] <ogra> jdub, does the CoC comply to the treatment of external resources ?