[12:01] thom: Hi [12:01] Loevborg, he is the real thom [12:02] thom yorke? [12:03] mdke, *nod* [12:03] whoa === mdke mobs thom and gets his autograph [12:04] heh [12:06] thom: Ok, we got logs from the lolotop [12:07] It ran the powerbutton script immediately after the resume had finished === thully [~thully@70.sub-166-155-152.myvzw.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:12] For several reasons (I don't enough time, and I need something more stable as my primary OS) I will be unable to continue running/testing/reporting bugs in the development version of Ubuntu. What should I do with my bug reports? Is there a way to "release them" - that is, take my name off them? [12:13] Nope [12:14] thully, i will watch the firefox one [12:14] Loevborg: it's not my nickname [12:14] *anyway* [12:14] thom: I /suspect/ that it's not actually handling the event until the previous event has exited, so we end up with the same problem [12:14] thom, what does that mean metaphyiscally? [12:14] sorry - I just am at a time where I need to be able to depend on my laptop suspending, resuming, getting online etc. Hoary does this most of the time, but I find that things go wrong at exactly the same time. [12:14] mjg59: meh === lupusBE [~lupus@dD5E03F52.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:15] s/same/wrong [12:15] mjg59: acpid should clear the even if it's locked [12:15] event [12:15] Loevborg: it's my _name_ [12:15] thom: I don't think acpid_handle_event returns until the script has exited, at which point the lock gets removed again [12:16] aaah, ew [12:16] thom: So I think our best bet is to have a helper script that sleeps and then removes the lock (which is horrible, but, well) [12:16] yeah, i think you're right. nod [12:17] oh ok. [12:17] I think maybe I should just stick to the stable releases (of Ubuntu, another distro, or another OS altogether) for now - It's not a good sitution if you have trouble w/your internet connection and have something that needs to be done === zul [~chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:18] hey [12:19] thully: sure; if you're not comfortable running unstable software, don't [12:19] Hmm. Right. I should go to bed soon, and then spend the day hacking acpi [12:20] I got started running Hoary when Warty didn't support suspend very well on my laptop (either 10% usage/hour or nothing - no swsusp even) [12:21] hey zul [12:21] If I had a test machine, I'd run it on that - but I currently only have one system (and I'm actually sending it for warranty work next week) [12:21] It's still the case that ACPI suspend is highly experimental under Linux, which is why it's disabled by default [12:21] to disk, to RAM, or both? [12:21] thully, both. [12:21] oooh...what did i miss.. [12:22] To disk is enabled by default, and works in most use cases [12:22] I would use APM (my system supports it) but apparently you can't do speedstepping in APM [12:22] You ought to be able to [12:22] You'll lose other aspects of CPU power management though [12:23] Kamion: Is man supposed to be attempting to use unicode hyphens on the Linux console? [12:25] Well, I'd like to avoid the OS That Can Not Be Named, but laptop support appears to still be a bit troublesome in Linux... === srbaker [~srbaker@blk-137-92-118.eastlink.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:26] If you want laptop support equivilent to that offered by Windows, your choices are Windows or MacOS X [12:26] works fine on my laptop [12:26] lol [12:26] and I really can't fix it myself at this time [12:27] Linux laptop support has improved massively over the past year, but we still can't offer the same level of functionality [12:27] suspend and wireless are the big issues at this point - although I actually think I have one of the better supported laptops [12:27] you have to buy the right laptop i guess [12:28] well, I think mine is about as good as it gets - suspend and wireless work fine, but are still a bit buggy [12:28] The orinoco gold classic is the solution to linux wireless issues. [12:30] ipw* work fine === thom radiates hate at cdbs [12:30] thom: why? [12:31] :) [12:31] yes - most of my issues are wireless after resume from suspend, and switching internet connections (from wi-fi, to PPP, and back...) [12:32] zenwhen, those are impossible to get a hold of at a decent price, at least here. [12:32] helix: obfuscation bad, mmmkay? [12:32] thom: You must hate debhelper and debuild then. =) [12:32] it's not that obfuscated [12:33] jbailey: i don't count debhelper as obfuscated, since it's utterly obvious from the rules file what the intent is :-) [12:33] Loevborg, that is unfortunate. All i had to do was plug mine into my pcmcia slot, and it ifup'd as eth0 [12:33] thom: I find the same with cdbs. =) [12:34] thom: you should use yada [12:34] helix: heh [12:35] Whee [12:35] jbailey: give me docs then, so i can decipher other people's cdbs === mjg59 manages to almost solve the video out issues === jlj [~agp@host-81-191-64-79.bluecom.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:36] thom: Working on it. =) [12:36] daniels: Argh. It can't change RAM size because AGP hasn't been loaded. === mjg59 needs to add extra PCI IDs [12:40] mjg59: I uploaded a version of groff to Debian on Friday that turns that off; it's awaiting a sync to Ubuntu. (By the way, groff has no clue whether you're on the Linux console or not. Nor does man, for that matter.) === buga is now known as buga-away [12:41] Ah [12:41] ogra: 'man strcmp' is pretty clear if you read the next line and know what the word "respectively" means. :-) [12:41] OK, then - I may regretfully end up installing that other OS... maybe I'll take a look at Hoary final first, and possibly SUSE (they have pretty good laptop+wireless support) [12:42] Kamion, docbook was ore helpful ;) [12:42] more even [12:42] It returns [12:42] cdbs isn't hard to understand :) [12:42] an integer less than, equal to, or greater than zero if s1 is found, [12:42] respectively, to be less than, to match, or be greater than s2. [12:42] ogra: i.e. "less than zero if s1 is found to be less than s2; equal to zero if s1 is found to match s2; greater than zero if s1 is found to be greater than s2" === calc dislikes cdbs for other reasons, but understanding it isn't one of them [12:43] doko: no idea, I don't really understand LANGUAGE and I've never found a clear spec for its contents [12:43] Kamion, after all it just should say it returns zero if the strings match :) [12:43] ogra: it DOES [12:43] if you know what the word "respectively" means (which is pretty standard in English developer documentation IME) [12:43] Kamion, if you studied english .... [12:43] if you didn't, you should use a translation of the documentation :) [12:44] heh, true [12:44] Bye everyone. Thanks for all the ACPI work. === thully [~thully@70.sub-166-155-152.myvzw.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [12:44] Kamion, i was just a bit logically barred :) [12:45] man pages aren't supposed to be easy to understand ;) [12:46] heh..we got into this arguemnet at work yeserday [12:46] lol [12:46] mdke, if i have slept enough and didnt drink half a bottle of wine before reading them, i normally understand what they say :) === mirak [~mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-42-252.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:47] ogra, if you finish the bottle, you'll understand em [12:47] lol [12:47] mdke, i'm near... === zenwhen [zenwhen@h-67-102-63-103.phlapafg.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:48] Die Funktion strcmp() vergleicht die beiden Strings s1 und s2 miteinan [12:48] der. Sie gibt eine ganze Zahl kleiner, gleich oder grer als Null [12:48] zurck, wenn s1 gefunden wurde und kleiner, gleich oder grer als s2 [12:48] ist. [12:48] lol [12:50] Kamion, yup, i already understood it ( xscreensaver is uploaded already) ;) but still the above i said would be an easier explanation [12:51] even in german [12:52] I'm just resentful that people keep trying to blame unclear writing on the documentation format :P [12:52] add dates here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Calendar :-) [12:52] Kamion: heh then you dont want to work with the people i work with ;) [12:53] Kamion: heh [12:53] Kamion, i know its my fault if i dont understand a man page in the firtst place, but one could make i easier for drunken people ;) [12:53] gooooooood morning freedom lovers! [12:53] hey jdub [12:53] morning jdub [12:54] writing documentation that's clear to drunken non-native speakers is, er, a challenge in general ;) [12:54] anyhow, gotta go [12:54] he jdub [12:54] bye Kamion [12:54] jdub: may i point you to wiki/Calendar and invite you to the MOTU Meeting? :-) [12:55] heh, that's not such a great time for me ;) [12:55] but possibly [12:56] jdub, we'd like to discuss some release manager related things there === dholbach finds xscreensaver in the updates... :-) [12:58] has anyone got a menu editing frontend in universe yet? [12:58] jdub, btw, xscreensaver uploaded, objections go to my place... [12:58] mdke: ask Amaranth [12:58] ogra: ah cool, thanks [12:58] I sort of do. [12:58] dholbach, oooh that's already a partly positive answer [12:58] Amaranth, yay# [12:58] I need help with the menu spec before I can go any further with it. [12:58] http://dev.realistanew.com/menu-editor/ [12:59] is that the one posted on the forum [12:59] one of them [12:59] check the screenshot in that dir [12:59] yeah looks pretty cool [12:59] is it systemwide or userwide? [12:59] systemwide [12:59] i'm working on user ones right now [01:00] awesome [01:00] thanks very much on behalf of us all [01:00] i can make new entries show up just fine but i should be able to override system ones with user ones (so you can 'change' the users ones) but it isn't working [01:00] Amaranth, maybe it is a limitation with gnome [01:00] err, so you can 'change' the system ones [01:00] i'm starting to think so [01:01] is it packaged? i can't help you out but I can test if you like [01:01] well, no, because it doesn't work in python-xdg either [01:01] k [01:01] no, no packages yet [01:01] i want to get this fixed and allow deleting entries first [01:01] k [01:02] you seen that guide on the gnome site about how to do it manually? [01:04] o_O [01:04] I've been looking [01:04] URL> [01:04] ? [01:04] erm [01:04] i copied it onto our wiki [01:04] GnomeMenuEditingHowTo [01:05] someone posted it in bugzilla [01:06] that's old [01:06] oh [01:06] that's vfolder junk [01:06] doesn't work? === mdke scraps wiki page [01:06] Amaranth, your current menu editor has made my day [01:06] :) [01:06] hehe [01:07] the new one will work without root and have a delete button :P [01:07] my menus now contain a lot of things they should have [01:07] if it ever gets released [01:07] sounds nice [01:08] is anyone else here experiencing 'issues' with icons in gnome? [01:08] when i install software, the icons aren't recognized until after i log out and log in, often. [01:09] it's not really reproducable because it's not consistent [01:10] srbaker: you mean on the menus? [01:10] normal surely? [01:10] killall gnome-panel will do it [01:10] the menus are funny [01:10] Amaranth, yeah [01:10] sometimes you need to kill the panel to make changes work, sometimes you don't [01:10] that's weird [01:11] what's the green dot that a lot of people seem to have in their panels? [01:11] battery? [01:11] do you have a screenshot? [01:12] http://www.oreillynet.com/network/2004/10/18/graphics/ifolder-icon.jpg [01:12] third from the left [01:13] updates? [01:13] is that what that is? [01:13] update manager? [01:13] no [01:13] i installed update-manager and update-notify but i can't seem to get the panel applet, either [01:13] but i haven't fucked around with that yet [01:14] the notification icon only shows up when you have upgrades [01:14] srbaker: it's gossip [01:14] thom, what's gossip? [01:14] oh, the icon [01:14] cool [01:15] thanks [01:17] srbaker: you do need to ensure that update-notifier is running in your session [01:17] jdub, i haven't logged out and logged in since i installed it [01:17] so run it :) [01:18] aha, good, kubuntu on slashdot [01:19] ha ha ark linux [01:19] finally.. [01:19] isn't ark based on debian too? [01:19] Amaranth, is it cool if I post your menu editor on that wiki page (have removed vfolder stuff) [01:19] ? [01:19] mdke: sure [01:19] ty === ogra [~ogra@p5089E0D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:21] you put it on first, then asked for permission :P [01:21] "Before people go like "Why doesn't Canonical make one cd with both KDE and Gnome?", let me put it this way: the same reason why they don't make one big DVD like Fedora." [01:21] nope [01:21] ^ ha ha [01:21] Amaranth, i asked for permission, then saved the page [01:21] oh [01:21] i refreshed right away and i guess i got in right after your save [01:21] :) [01:21] jdub: someone said something about a DVD [01:21] said they wanted more apps [01:21] we're already building DVDs [01:21] jdub, isn't ubuntu with gnome only hard enough to fit on one cd? [01:22] Amaranth, yeah i saw that [01:22] daniels: me: "is this the same bug, or a different bug?" you: "yeah" -- which one? [01:22] srbaker: not enormously hard, but it is getting harder. [01:22] does anyone here know anything about the fd.o menu spec? [01:23] jdub, i am very impressed that ubuntu fit on one cd [01:23] i swear they intentionally made it hard... === matt__ [~matt@81-178-89-149.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:25] "it'll always be 1 CD" -- James Troup [01:26] hehehe === mdke [~matt@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:27] azeem_: that's the intention, yes [01:28] mdz: popcon is waiting on me getting it cronned up and happy, then i'll announce it [01:28] mdz: erk. yeah -> same. [01:29] daniels: cool, thanks [01:29] thom: ETA? [01:29] mdz: monday [01:29] stupendous [01:32] so could someone tell me why my laptop just shot down unintentionally ? [01:33] gremlins? [01:33] hrm [01:33] i'm not amused, lost a lot of unsaved stuff....it happend out of the blue... [01:34] ogra: syslog? === Amaranth rips into kmenuedit [01:34] dholbach, nothing === srbaker [~srbaker@blk-137-92-118.eastlink.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:35] hmm... [01:35] Mar 20 01:25:18 localhost kernel: psmouse.c: TouchPad at isa0060/serio4/input0 lost sync at byte 1 [01:35] Mar 20 01:25:18 localhost last message repeated 4 times [01:35] Mar 20 01:25:18 localhost kernel: psmouse.c: TouchPad at isa0060/serio4/input0 - driver resynched. [01:35] Mar 20 01:25:18 localhost kernel: psmouse.c: TouchPad at isa0060/serio4/input0 lost sync at byte 4 [01:35] zul ideas ? looks like the kernel [01:36] weird [01:36] in fact there seem to be a lot of these messages [01:36] when did it first start? [01:36] ogra: you flew out 1:17 of my time [01:37] hrm [01:37] update-notifier is running, but i don't seem to be getting a desktop icon for it [01:37] jdub, what's the "gnome way" of notifying other applications of something? [01:37] dholbach, 1:37 here now... [01:37] dholbach, does that match ? [01:37] ogra: yeah [01:37] jdub, i've been thinking about doinga Growl compatible client for Gnome (growl.info) [01:37] k [01:37] it's for user notification [01:38] ARGH [01:38] ar 20 01:17:58 localhost kernel: ext3_orphan_cleanup: deleting unreferenced inode 734214 [01:38] Mar 20 01:17:58 localhost kernel: ext3_orphan_cleanup: deleting unreferenced inode 1322015 [01:38] Mar 20 01:17:58 localhost kernel: ext3_orphan_cleanup: deleting unreferenced inode 1321933 [01:38] :-( [01:38] heh, kmenuedit doesn't work either [01:39] i'm calling this what i'm almost positive it is now: a gnome-menus bug [01:39] WHAT ???? [01:39] Mar 20 01:16:31 localhost shutdown[21527] : shutting down for system halt === ogra cant belive that [01:40] srbaker: there's no blessed system yet [01:40] jdub, would something that's Growl compatible be appreciated, or are there more gnomeish ways to accomplish this? [01:41] it's a huge discussion with no good answer for you [01:41] oh [01:42] so if i just ran out and wrote it, it might be a good idea [01:42] could be [01:42] i kinda want a growl compatible system for other software i'm using anyways. [01:43] jdub, how long does it take for packages to be in http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/g/ ? [01:44] i'm not sure [01:45] and why have a changelog file for every release? [01:45] lupusBE: happens every 12 hours [01:45] um, howelse would you do it? [01:45] yeah I'm testing update-manager and so I was wondering :) [01:46] just the latest changelog and a regular expression to get the right changelog :) [01:47] jdub: BEAGLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [01:47] I would only show the difference between the current installed one and the latest [01:47] tseng: ssssshhhh [01:48] :( [01:48] lupusBE: can't work (same changelog and regex) think about security point releases [01:48] tseng: are you running with inotify on or off? [01:48] off. [01:48] ok just curious [01:49] ic thom [01:49] the only really missing thing is that update-manager does not show the current installed version of the package [01:50] but maybe that is just my personal taste :) [01:50] no reason why it should is there? [01:50] a option to turn this info on would be kind of nice tho :) [01:51] like I said :) personal taste :p [01:51] so the only real bugger is that changes are placed on the server after 12 hours [01:52] I mean every 12 hours :) [01:52] can't be done when a packages is put in the repository? [01:52] anyone know fo a gnome app for writing docbook? [01:53] check google [01:53] jdub: beagle! [01:54] SHUT UP THE LOT OF YOU [01:54] jdub: pssst....ok === stratus [~stratus@201008026181.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === exarkun [exarkun@intarweb.us] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogra is realy frustrated and goes to bed now, lost more then half of his work because his laptop shot down out of the blue with no cognizable reason.... [02:01] night all :( [02:03] hey all. I hope this is not an inappropriate forum for this question, but I was wondering about having Python's bsddb module linked against libdb4.3 instead of libdb4.2. Anyone looked into this? [02:06] need to take off, but if anyone knows the answer my client will be logging, and I will appreciate it :) ubuntu has been really awesome so far for me, by the way :) [02:20] good night everyone [02:20] night daniel [02:21] night daniel :-) [02:23] i give up [02:24] someone else can make a menu editor [02:24] Amaranth: that bad, is it? [02:25] night [02:25] Amaranth: I'd love to, if you can find me the spare time ;) [02:25] ajmitch: It's horrible. Shitty docs, gnome-menus bugs, etc, etc, etc. [02:25] that's all part of what makes programming fun [02:26] The problem is I'm going that exact same thing kmenuedit is doing and gnome-menus ignores both of us. So I think gnome-menus doesn't even support what I need. [02:31] jdub, i suppose if i wrote said notification program in ruby, it's not as likely to get accepted, right? [02:31] jdub, python is probably the best choice if i want the "gnome community" to use it? [02:31] srbaker: gnome and ubuntu, yeah [02:31] k [02:34] i'm working on it now [02:34] thanks === ironwolf [~ironwolf@c-24-6-169-124.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:41] jdub, this is going to be less work than i thought. there are Python, PHP, and Ruby implementations of the protocol for *notifying* to growl. [02:41] jdub, a growl server will be easy as pie [02:43] anyone know if seb gets on IRC on the weekends? === zenlol [~Jared@68-64-226-184.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:50] why are the iso mirrors so slow [02:53] zenlol: can't use bittorrent? [02:53] zenlol: because a lot of people are downloading kubuntu [02:54] the torrents should be much faster [02:54] isn't galago the notification stack of choice these days? [02:55] mdz, whoops. I woulda not sent you an email and just pung you here if i had seen ya. ;) [02:55] are there torrents for the daily installs [02:55] wasabi: I'm hiding; I'm off-duty ;-) [02:55] ahh. [02:55] zenlol: no, not yet [02:55] i am totally over here on abroadband connection just to get a new daily image and cant ;_; [02:55] then don't read your email! [02:56] at least kub is getting some exposure [02:56] :) [02:57] hrm, [02:57] lamont: around? [02:57] how is the DVD image size going now that we've beefed up main so significantly? [02:57] yeah [02:57] oh is there going to be a kde/gnome dvd now? [02:58] zenlol: a dvd w/ all of main [02:58] jdub: dunno [02:58] zenlol: we've had DVD images throughout hoary [02:58] oh wow [02:58] how did I miss this? [02:58] jdub: but they're all of supported, not all of main. or something like that [02:58] last weeks was ~3gb iirc [02:58] zenlol: cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/weekly-dvd/... [02:59] oh cool [02:59] lamont: oh, so we're now distinguishing between "ubuntu supported seed" and "main, the combination of kubuntu and ubuntu seeds"? [03:00] poor folks. one of these days I'm going to unload Eclipse on you and blow your dvd out of the water. =/ [03:00] jdub: there's no boot foo to distinguish which you weant.. [03:00] want [03:00] really a Kamion question though [03:01] lamont: no, i just mean contents of CD, not what it chooses to install [03:01] a dvd with either the union of {kubuntu,ubuntu}-supported, or with all of main, would be good. [03:01] jdub: exactly [03:01] the generation process is currently driven by the seeds, IIUC [03:02] right, so it's not currently all of main? [03:02] hence there's an ubuntu dvd and a kubuntu dvd [03:02] that is my understanding. [03:02] haven't actually looked though [03:02] oh [03:02] oh.. [03:02] ISTR Kamion telling me that when I was asking [03:02] weird [03:03] jdub: feel free to forward the google thing to sounder if you feel it's appropriate [03:03] jdub: I don't like to be too competitive there ;-) [03:03] wasabi: hah, like Eclipse will ever be in main [03:03] tseng: it will [03:03] ouch. [03:04] mdz: woos ;) [03:04] mdz: do we have a free java solution? [03:04] tseng, I am *so close* [03:04] Yeah. [03:04] hm, neat [03:04] I have it running in GCJ right now. [03:04] tseng: yes, several [03:05] Just a matter of knocking down packages in multiverse. [03:05] There are Eclipse packages on mentors.debian.net if you wnat to try them out. [03:05] jdub: the DVD has always corresponded to supported via germinate; it's only recently that main and ubuntu-supported have diverged [03:06] where does extra wind up? universe? [03:07] http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/contrib/e/eclipse/ [03:08] is gcc 4.0 out? [03:09] Amaranth: given the -0pre6ubuntu6 version in our archive, I'd say not unless it's been in the last day or 2 [03:09] heh [03:09] think it'll make it in time for hoary+1? [03:11] /usr/bin/ld: BFD 2.15 assertion fail ../../bfd/elflink.c:6081 [03:11] ew. [03:11] well, the pre6 packages are in main in hoary... === mroth [~mroth@c-24-7-68-186.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:21] err, prerelease software is in main? [03:24] lamont: extra winds up in universe, yes [03:46] mdz: is ntpdate enabled on the livecd? [03:47] jdub: yep [03:47] hrm [03:53] we should so get rid of desktop-base === macewan [~macewan@ip68-101-19-222.nc.hr.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:55]