[12:01] <schweeb> lol
[12:01] <ogra> jdub, then i would suggest something less rdical...voodo puppets for example
[12:02] <schweeb> ogra: or just find people who haven't signed the CoC yet
[12:02] <schweeb> and "suggest" their course of action
[12:11] <pitti> Mithrandir: bah, dh_compress does compress explicitly specified files even if they are < 4k...
[12:18] <zul> oi vey
[12:18] <lamont> zul: yeah, I screamed
[12:18] <infinity> mdz : Regarding the FTBFS of mysqlclient10 on amd64... I suppose it's too late for me to suggest that I recompile 59 source packages to use mysqlclient12 (from mysql 4.0) and drop the old, broken lib entirely?
[12:18] <zul> i still have have some slackware 2.0 cds around
[12:18] <mdz> infinity: YES
[12:18] <infinity> mdz : Just checking. :)
[12:19] <infinity> I may need access to an amd64 machine to poke at it.
[12:21] <dilinger> hah
[12:21] <dilinger> infinity, king of the last minute library transitions :)
[12:21] <infinity> dilinger : Shh.  I just don't feel like fixing bugs in obsolete packages. :)
[12:21] <infinity> Luckily, this bug isn't all that tough.
[12:22] <infinity> Besides, all that talking with MySQL upstream has to be of some use..
[12:22] <infinity> Other than me losing my sanity, that it.
[12:25] <jdub> Riddell: around?
[12:25] <jdub> amu: around?
[12:44] <schweeb> jdub: alright, well, I uploaded what I did for gsf-sharp to http://www.schweeb.org/~chris/ubuntu/
[12:45] <schweeb> passes lintian
[12:48] <Robot101> thom: didn't notice slef had joined the channel, or didn't care? :)
[12:48] <thom> yes
[12:49] <Robot101> thom: both? :D
[12:49] <thom> Robot101: mostly the former, but i now don't care eitehr
[12:49] <jdub> schweeb: ahr!
[12:50] <schweeb> jdub: huh?
[12:50] <jdub> schweeb: a pirate says "ahr!"
[12:50] <schweeb> ahh, hehe
[12:51] <schweeb> I know a brit that says that, but only when angry ;)
[12:52] <jdub> hrm
[12:52] <jdub> automake symlinks in the tarball
[12:52] <jdub> even though autogen.sh does automake -a
[12:52] <schweeb> shouldn't have done that?
[12:52] <jdub> oh
[12:52] <schweeb> I just ran autogen.sh
[12:52] <jdub> it needs -c too
[12:52] <jdub> automake -a -c
[12:53] <jdub> schweeb: perhaps copy the tomboy/beagle build-depends for mono stuff
[12:56] <jdub> schweeb: hrm, so
[12:56] <jdub> schweeb: instead of running autogen.sh
[12:56] <jdub> schweeb: run each command manually
[12:56] <jdub> schweeb: using aclocal-1.6 and automake-1.6
[12:56] <schweeb> in the rules file, or in the .orig source?
[12:57] <jdub> when you're generating the dist tarball
[12:57] <schweeb> k
[12:58] <schweeb> 1.6 specifically?  I have 1.4 installed
[12:58] <jdub> schweeb: yeah, use 1.6
[01:04] <infinity> graphviz build-deps on itself unintentionally.  Cute.
[01:07] <daniels> mjg59: bleh
[01:08] <daniels> mjg59: if we have working suspend, just bump the version to 1.2
[01:08] <schweeb> jdub: Build-Depends: cdbs, debhelper (>= 4.1.0), mono-mcs (>= 1.0) | c-sharp-compiler, mono-jit [i386 powerpc] , mono-mint [!i386 !powerpc] , libmono-dev, mono-utils (>= 0.96), mono-gac, libgsf-1-dev, libgsf-gnome-1-dev
[01:08] <schweeb> jdub: those look better
[01:09] <jdub> tops
[01:09] <mjg59> daniels: Yeah, patch submitted
[01:09] <mjg59> I was sitting there for ages looking at the code and thinking How does any of this stuff he added make any difference?
[01:09] <mjg59> The answer is, of course, that it doesn't
[01:09] <schweeb> jdub: and I'm guessing in the dist tarball, I shouldn't run configure, like autogen does?
[01:10] <jdub> you do
[01:10] <mjg59> daniels: I've also come up with a solution for X output that doesn't require changing the X config
[01:10] <jdub> run the modified autogen commands (1.6 for aclocal and automake and use -a -c for automake)
[01:10] <dholbach> good night everyone
[01:10] <jdub> then do the maintainer-mode configure
[01:10] <jdub> then make dist
[01:10] <pitti> night dholbach 
[01:10] <schweeb> ahh
[01:11] <mjg59> Now, if I can just get the damn thing to reset...
[01:11] <dholbach> bye pitti 
[01:11] <schweeb> alright, that makes more sense to me now
[01:12] <jdub> schweeb: oh, you need dh_makenetlibs too :)
[01:13] <schweeb> alright
[01:13] <schweeb> I wasn't sure what it did
[01:13] <schweeb> and lintian bitched
[01:13] <jdub> yeah, lintian doesn't know about it yet
[01:13] <daniels> mjg59: oh?  just poking it all by hand from userspace?
[01:13] <schweeb> what's it for? registering with the GAC or what?
[01:14] <jdub> schweeb: it adds a little file that tells dependent packages how to depend on it
[01:14] <schweeb> ahhhh
[01:14] <mjg59> daniels: Yeah, I figured out how to get the video button to actually generate an acpi event
[01:14] <mjg59> The ACPI spec is full of useful information
[01:16] <daniels> heh
[01:16] <dilinger> it's big enough, it should be :P
[01:16] <jdub> mjg59: how boldly would you state the quality of our laptop/acpi power management in hoary?
[01:16] <mjg59> jdub: It's massively better than anything else out there
[01:17] <buga> jdub: i also can confirm that qca-tls is widely used
[01:18] <buga> kopete developers said that using qca-tls is temporary, but removed "temporary" notice later
[01:18] <infinity> lamont : Around?
[01:18] <jdub> schweeb: also, why 'libgsf-cil' as the source package name? shouldn't it be 'gsf-sharp'?
[01:18] <jdub> buga: aha
[01:19] <schweeb> jdub: I was going by what all the rest of the package names for mono assemblies I've seen are
[01:19] <jdub> schweeb: those are binary names tho, not source names
[01:19] <schweeb> okay, so leave the binary name -cil, and set the source name to gsf-sharp?
[01:19] <jdub> $ apt-cache showsrc libevolution-cil | grep ^Package
[01:19] <jdub> Package: evolution-sharp
[01:19] <jdub> yeah
[01:20] <schweeb> kk
[01:20] <jdub> that means the tarball name, etc., etc. too ;)
[01:20] <schweeb> jdub: hey, I'm not doin too bad for bein green at packaging ;)
[01:20] <jdub> not at all
[01:20] <jdub> very tidy :-)
[01:20] <schweeb> this is like the 2nd package I've done that isn't just a mod/upgrade of a prebuild
[01:21] <schweeb> and the 1st haven't been released... Xen stuff
[01:26] <mjg59> If I can figure out this reboot problem, we're all set
[01:26] <schweeb> jdub: hrm... configure wasn't generated when I did aclocal-1.6 and automake-1.6
[01:26] <mjg59> jdub: Are you still getting suspend love with latest Hoary kernels?
[01:26] <jdub> mjg59: i did the other day
[01:27] <jdub> mjg59: i was having problems earlier with suspend workign once then not again
[01:27] <jdub> but i did it twice the other day
[01:27] <daniels> jdub: except dbus is dbus-mono, not dbus-sharp :)
[01:27] <jdub> schweeb: you should be running...
[01:27] <jdub> aclocal-1.6
[01:27] <jdub> libtoolize --force --copy
[01:27] <jdub> automake-1.6 -a -c
[01:27] <jdub> autoconf
[01:27] <jdub> ./configure --enable-maintainer-mode
[01:27] <jdub> make dist
[01:28] <jdub> daniels: special case :-)
[01:28] <schweeb> ah, okay, didn't do autoconf
[01:28] <jdub> heh
[01:28] <daniels> jdub: the exception that proves the rule!
[01:28] <jdub> autoconf is the bit that generates configure ;)
[01:28] <jdub> morning jlj
[01:28] <mjg59> jdub: Probably down to mdnsresponder, if you had that running
[01:28] <daniels> jdub: why not just autoreconf -v --install?
[01:28] <schweeb> jdub: hehe, well their autogen script didn't run it!
[01:28] <jdub> jlj: how's the response been to your release?
[01:28] <jdub> mjg59: could've been polypaudio too, actually
[01:29] <Amaranth> hey, jlj comes here too
[01:30] <schweeb> I guess I was wrong on my versioning... they claim it's 0.3, but their NEWS claims 0.1.0, heh
[01:30] <Amaranth> schweeb: you wrote http://bonehunter.rulez.org/~algernon/blog/2005/03/20/#pyMusique ?
[01:31] <Amaranth> oh, nm
[01:31] <schweeb> nope
[01:31] <Amaranth> you're talking about something else :P
[01:31] <schweeb> yep
[01:31] <Amaranth> i fell off my chair when i read what they wrote about us
[01:31] <schweeb> gsf-sharp, heh
[01:31] <Amaranth> my name is python, or something
[01:42] <calc> Amaranth: hehehe
[01:44] <pitti> night everybody
[01:46] <lamont> infinity: not really
[01:47] <daniels> infinity: If you need SSH access to an amd64, I can hook you up.
[01:49] <infinity> daniels : Too late, but I may bug you later.
[01:49] <daniels> infinity: OK
[01:49] <infinity> lamont : Can I bug you about an FTBFS bug of yours anyway
[01:49] <infinity> lamont : ?
[01:50] <infinity> lamont : 7846 ... libtool is generating a different linker line on i386 than on the other 3 arches (which is why it's only failing on i386).. Any chance it was cosmic rays, or a goofy chroot?
[02:01] <infinity> daniels : Do we have a house yet? :)
[02:01] <daniels> infinity: just called and harassed Simon, incidentally
[02:01] <daniels> infinity: 34 Barkly St is coming up soon ...
[02:05] <infinity> daniels : A lot of stuff is.  Then again, it may all suck as badly as everything we've already seen. :)
[02:06] <daniels> Heh.
[02:06] <infinity> daniels : If we don't settle soon, Zofia might actually cause me bodily harm.  And I'l pass on the favour.
[02:06] <infinity> daniels : Not to mention, until we move, I don't have my amd64 system up and running.
[02:06] <lamont> infinity: shouldn't be...
[02:07] <daniels> infinity: Right.
[02:07] <lamont> infinity: and libtool shouldn't be in the chroot, so the log should show what version was installed.
[02:07] <mjg59> Hm. ndiswrapper is depressingly easy to set up
[02:07] <infinity> lamont : If you look at the build logs, it looks pretty suspect, that's all.
[02:08] <infinity> lamont : On the other hand, the packages doesn't relibtoolise during build either, so it's all a bit weird.
[02:08] <infinity> lamont : IOW, I can't come up with a solid explanation for the different logs, other than "something was confused that day".  But I'll dig deeper.
[02:08] <infinity> lamont : Could you retry it anyway for kicks?
[02:11] <lamont> which package?
[02:12] <infinity> lamont : graphviz/i386
[02:13] <infinity> lamont : Note that it IS in the archive already, it just failed during your rebuildability testing...
[02:13] <lamont> ah, from the hoary-test rebuild?
[02:13] <lamont> right
[02:13] <infinity> Right.
[02:13] <infinity> But the other 3 arches succeeded.
[02:14] <lamont> given back
[02:14] <lamont> mind you, if it succeeds, I'll be annoyed
[02:14] <infinity> Not as annoyed as I will if it fails. :)
[02:15] <lamont> oh, if it still works, I expect that there's still a bug... if it succeeds, I'll build it 3-5 more times to take a vote.
[02:15] <jdub> mjg59: http://live.gnome.org/ProjectUtopia_2fPowerManagement_2fgnome_2dpower_2dmanager
[02:15] <lamont> intermittant failures are far worse than solid ones.
[02:16] <infinity> lamont : Agreed, though I don't look forward to trying to find the bug in question.  The previous i386 build (the one in the archive) got the correct libtool linker line, and so did the other 6 builds (previous and current builds of the other 3 arches)
[02:17] <infinity> lamont : So, one broken build out of 8 looks pretty weird, when the breakage is in an arch-indep bit.
[02:17] <lamont> yeah
[02:22] <mjg59> jdub: Yeah, it's lovely
[02:22] <Robot101> *drool*
[02:23] <mjg59> jdub: It doesn't do all that much of use yet, though :)
[02:24] <mjg59> I'm doing a GUADEC BOF on this stuff
[02:27] <schweeb> jdub: alright, uploaded changes... would have done so a long time ago, but my parents disconnected the cable modem... I wasn't a very happy camper
[02:27] <schweeb> jdub: http://schweeb.org/~chris/ubuntu
[02:34] <mjg59> thom: I've also got code for ndiswrapper over suspend/resume
[02:34] <mjg59> (argh)
[02:37] <jdub> schweeb: d'oh!
[02:37] <jdub> schweeb: thanks :)
[02:37] <schweeb> np
[02:37] <schweeb> always lookin to contribute, now was as good a time as any
[02:42] <jdub> ahar!
[02:45] <lamont> infinity: T&*)%_+_)&%*^_(+_*&%^_)&*^_%)(+*^%^(
[02:45] <infinity> lamont : Is that line-noise for "it built fine this time"?
[02:45] <lamont> document that however you want.
[02:45] <lamont> the latter
[02:45] <lamont> must run for a while
[02:46] <infinity> lamont : alright... I'll document another successful build, but leave the bug open for now.
[02:46] <infinity> lamont : I'm still betting on cosmic rays.
[02:47] <jdub> schweeb: ok, i'm running a big fat index now :-)
[02:51] <schweeb> jdub: cool, tell me how it goes... I'm too impatient to sit there and let my stuff index... too many gigs of it
[03:00] <schweeb> jdub: what about gst-sharp?  that gonna be wanted too, or are there probs with it?
[03:02] <jdub> dunno really
[03:02] <jdub> haven't tried it
[03:07] <janc> it seems like several packages have no /usr/share/applications/*.desktop files (yet) ?
[03:07] <crimsun> several being "a ton", yes
[03:07] <janc> I just filed a bug for fontforge
[03:08] <janc> the other ones I found were in universal
[03:09] <schweeb> jdub: ah, gst-sharp ain't happenin... requires a newer ver of libgtk2.0-cil...
[03:09] <jdub> schweeb: aha, ok
[03:32] <srbaker> so i started update-notifier (and it's running in my session) and i never get the icon in my panel
[03:34] <jdub> you will when you apt-get update and there are updates available
[03:40] <srbaker> hrm
[03:40] <cc> ok, if i've already rolled a LiveCD, and i want to make further changes, i should use the LiveCDCustomizationHowTo and only pay attention to the customizations part (i.e. preparing the chroot) right?
[03:44] <jdub> should do
[03:46] <cc> great, time to make the LiveCD more customised then. does anyone know how to specify the firefox startpage properly? in my last roll pref("browser.startup.homepage", "...") didn't work so well
[03:47] <jdub> perhaps check our firefox diff
[03:52] <schweeb> cc: I think the user's preference overrides in that situation... so you'd have to specifically set it in the user's prefs.js... otherwise, there's also a way to lockdown ffox settings, but I don't have a link
[03:53] <cc> schweeb: hmm, thanks. i'll have to take a look
[03:53] <cc> (and get faster cdrws)
[03:53] <schweeb> I've done it at work before
[03:54] <cc> or alternatively, use Epiphany, which uses gconf settings iirc
[03:55] <schweeb> crap, I thought I blogged about when I did the firefox lockdown :-/
[03:55] <schweeb> guess you're out of luck
[03:55] <schweeb> it's on mozillazine somewhere
[04:01] <zul> later
[04:24] <srbaker> whoa.  i have a big hate on for evolution.  i think i'm going to have an i hate evolution party
[04:35] <schweeb> srbaker: the enlightened use thunderbird or mutt
[04:37] <srbaker> schweeb, i was using thunderbird, i'm switching back to balsa
[04:37] <srbaker> all mail clients suck
[04:37] <schweeb> yea, pretty much
[04:37] <srbaker> actually, i don't mind evo for mail
[04:37] <srbaker> it's all of the other horseshit they throw in there
[05:39] <fabbione> morning
[05:41] <janc> schweeb : thunderbird has one big faw: it has no useable plain text editor  :-(
[05:42] <schweeb> hrm?  I make plain text messages just fine...?
[05:43] <janc> you don't see how they look at the receiver's end?  ;)
[05:43] <schweeb> plaintext is just that - plaintext... no formatting... I still dunno what you're talking about
[05:44] <sabmoc> hi schweeb 
[05:44] <schweeb> hello sabmoc
[05:44] <janc> quoting is completely broken in the plain text editor
[05:44] <sabmoc> schweeb, hows it going?
[05:45] <schweeb> fine fine
[05:45] <schweeb> trying to mock up some mono 1.1.4 packages for myself
[05:45] <janc> at least up to TB 1.0
[05:45] <calc> mutt is a good mail client :)
[05:46] <schweeb> janc: odd, it's worked fine for me.  I have my whole company (150 users) running on tbird
[05:46] <sabmoc> schweeb, hmm.. Im not much of a programmer so Im not too interested in mono, only the slick mono apps like tomboy.
[05:46] <schweeb> hehe
[05:46] <infinity> Is festival_client supposed to vomit all over stderr when you run it?
[05:47] <schweeb> sabmoc: hah, I'm in the middle... I know enough that I can build the stuff and be interested in it, but I'm by no means a programmer
[05:47] <schweeb> as soon as I hit GUI design I give up
[05:48] <schweeb> hopefully Stetic makes things better
[05:48] <janc> schweed : it works, the messages just look stupid when the receiver has a decent mail client  :P
[05:48] <sabmoc> schweeb, yeah me too sort of, I went though a little the learning to build mono process, then I went though all the msdn tutorials on mono (very good btw) then made a calculator in gtk# and gave up :D
[05:48] <janc> schweeb*
[05:49] <sabmoc> I think I would like to learn xul now.
[05:50] <sabmoc> err.. correction, I went though the msdn tutorials on c#, they dont have any tutorials on mono yet. ;)
[05:51] <sabmoc> gtk# really impressed me, I didnt give up because I didnt like it. GTK# makes GTK+ look like an evil joke. No offense :D
[05:51] <schweeb> yea, I've seen GTK+ too, bleh
[05:51] <Amaranth> sabmoc: PyGTK makes GTK# look like a joke. :P
[05:52] <sabmoc> Amaranth, but I have no interestin in py, I picked up a book on it but keep falling asleep, anything that easy is just no fun.
[05:52] <schweeb> bleh, py doesn't rub me right for some reason
[05:52] <Amaranth> sabmoc: You like pain? :)
[05:52] <sabmoc> me2
[05:53] <Amaranth> If you do it correctly it reads like psuedo-code, it's so awesome.
[05:53] <sabmoc> Amaranth, no, just kidding you a bit, but py just didnt really interest me. Its just personal preference I guess.
[05:54] <Amaranth> GTK# is good too. Anything is better than GTK+. :)
[05:54] <sabmoc> Amaranth, I know, but maybe thats the problem, my brain needs at least a small level of abstraction from psudocode to code, writing psudocode is no fun.
[05:54] <Amaranth> I'm lazy so easy is fun. :)
[05:54] <sabmoc> but its possible im crazy
[05:55] <sabmoc> Amaranth, hehe
[05:55] <schweeb> I like perl for quick admin stuff, C# for other stuff
[05:56] <sabmoc> schweeb, ever looked at xul?
[05:56] <schweeb> xul is mozilla's stuff, isn't it?  if so, yes
[05:56] <sabmoc> yes
[05:57] <schweeb> hrm
[05:57] <sabmoc> when I have time Im starting to poke into xul a little bit. So far it seems more complecated that I had hoped, but Im still interested.
[05:57] <schweeb> it seems really complicated
[05:57] <sabmoc> yes
[06:00] <sabmoc> its basically just xml, css and javascript, thats pretty neat
[06:00] <schweeb> I don't like webapps that much, heh... if I so desired, I could do PHP all day at work
[06:01] <sabmoc> But even for a simple app they make you jump though a lot of hoops
[06:01] <sabmoc> through*
[06:01] <schweeb> hrm
[06:01] <sabmoc> schweeb, where do you work?
[06:02] <schweeb> I work in the finance industry... for a credit card processor in MI
[06:02] <sabmoc> wow cool
[06:02] <schweeb> eh, not really... rich bosses suck
[06:03] <sabmoc> haha
[06:03] <sabmoc> want to trade jobs?
[06:03] <schweeb> probably not
[06:03] <sabmoc> indeed
[06:03] <jbailey> Financial industry's not that bad.
[06:04] <jbailey> That's usually my sector.
[06:04] <sabmoc> hey jbailey 
[06:04] <schweeb> we're a bit... understaffed
[06:04] <schweeb> and mismanaged
[06:04] <jbailey> schweeb: understaffed usually isn't the problem I've seen.  Committee meetings with 30 people, none of whom have a clue or are really interested in the problem are.
[06:04] <schweeb> heh
[06:05] <jbailey> But each of them have to sign off on it because it touches something they might once have thought about.
[06:05] <sabmoc> damn bureaucracy
[06:05] <schweeb> well, we're a rather small company... ~150... 5 person IT dept, 2 of us are co-ops (interns)
[06:07] <jbailey> sabmoc: Usually, bad trust model more than anything else.  You can't trust that people will review the things they're supposed to so you drag them into a meeting to force them to do it.
[06:07] <sabmoc> jbailey, hmm.. ic
[06:09] <sabmoc> jbailey, I've never had to deal with that, closest I have ever come to going corporate was working in the mailroom for midlandwalwyn but they got bought out by merril lynch sortly before I left (I still blame myself)
[06:09] <schweeb> odd
[06:10] <sabmoc> oops, I mean shortly after I left.. 
[06:10] <schweeb> I think I ran into a problem compiling mono 1.1.4 with mono 1.1.4
[06:10] <sabmoc> schweeb, I havent compiled mono since around .40 or so, whats the problem?
[06:11] <schweeb> it's cleared from my scrollback already
[06:11] <sabmoc> heh
[06:11] <schweeb> but I built mono alone earlier, and installed to /usr/local... but when building for a package, it bombed on compile every time
[06:12] <schweeb> (fresh source tree)
[06:12] <sabmoc> ah, well I dont know a thing about packaging 
[06:13] <sabmoc> ok, time to work
[06:13] <schweeb> time to sleep
[06:13] <jbailey> sabmoc: Midland Walwyn had an awesome trading floor. =)  I got a tour of their facility in BCE in 96 or 97.  
[06:14] <sabmoc> jbailey, cool, I would have been the guy pushing the mailcart around, and picking up the courier to be delivered.
[06:15] <sabmoc> jbailey, that was back when I lived in TO of course, Im in BC now.
[06:16] <sabmoc> that was such a fun job :) 
[06:20] <jbailey> I was working for Phillips Hager & North in Vancouver at the time and was out here to do some server maintenance.
[06:20] <jbailey> I moved to TO 'bout 4 years ago, moving to Montral this summer.
[06:21] <sabmoc> cool
[06:21] <infinity> And in another 3 years, he'll be in Newfoundland.
[06:22] <jdub> noofie!
[06:22] <jbailey> infinity: I'm vegan, I don't think I could cope with being screached in.
[06:22] <daniels> jbailey: You too could be a Noofie.
[06:22] <daniels> jbailey: Ooh, but I hear the screach is awesome!
[06:22] <infinity> jbailey : Pfft.  Convert.
[06:22] <jbailey> Okay, and why do the Auzzies know about neufies?
[06:23] <jdub> we know noofies smell
[06:23] <daniels> jbailey: And their screach.
[06:24] <schweeb> feel the love! ;)
[06:24] <jbailey> jdub: Newfie's don't smell, that's just what living in a seaport smells like in general.
[06:25] <jbailey> Not this thing that used to be a fresh water lake that's beside me.
[06:25] <infinity> Port, schmort.
[06:25] <infinity> A year next to the ocean in Cairns cured me of any such urges.
[06:25] <infinity> Thankfully, Melbourne smells enough like "big city" to avoid smelling like ocean.
[06:25] <jbailey> infinity: Are you in Melbourne now?
[06:26] <infinity> Aye.
[06:26] <jbailey> Shit dude, pick a city and stay there for a week or two.
[06:26] <daniels> Well, as much as you can call Altona a part of Melbourne.
[06:26] <infinity> I'm staying, I promise.
[06:26] <infinity> Unless they kick me out of the ocuntry.
[06:26] <infinity> daniels : Pfft, it's closer than your current residence.
[06:26] <infinity> (barely)
[06:27] <infinity> Also, I get to hear folk from Footscray on the train every day talking JUST LIKE Dave Hughes.  And that's always good for a laugh.
[06:28] <sabmoc> Wow, is everyone here Australian Noofies except me? Whats going on?
[06:28] <daniels> sabmoc: Australian Noofies?
[06:28] <daniels> That's a little bit of a contradiction in terms.
[06:28] <infinity> Evidently, wget segfaults iff the first connection times out, but the second attempt connects.
[06:28] <schweeb> I'm a resident of the US of A
[06:28] <infinity> That seems... Different.
[06:28] <daniels> Except for infinity, because he comes from Noofieland, and now lives in .au.
[06:29] <infinity> I come from Noofieland?
[06:29] <daniels> infinity: Yes.
[06:29] <infinity> WOuld you like me to tell people that you come from Darwin?
[06:29] <daniels> Well, that's demonstrably untrue.
[06:29] <sabmoc> yes, tell us he comes from Darwin
[06:29] <sabmoc> then tell us who Darwin is
[06:30] <infinity> daniels : As is the bit about me and Newfoundland. :)
[06:30] <infinity> daniels : Since I'm from the other side of the country.
[06:30] <daniels> sabmoc: darwin is a horrible city in Australia
[06:31] <sabmoc> infinity, noofies are the best people
[06:32] <jbailey> sabmoc: While australia is a rock they exile people to, it's a bit too big to be mistaken for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.
[06:32] <jbailey> sabmoc: Even my geography isn't that bad (and I can assure you, my geography is horrible)
[06:33] <infinity> It's probably the lack of meat that makes your sense of proportion and direction go all whacky.  <nods knowingly>
[06:33] <sabmoc> jbailey, how can you have bad geography? I thought you were Canadian.
[06:34] <sabmoc> oh wait, should have said "of course you have bad geography, your Canadian."
[06:34] <daniels> s/your/you're/
[06:34] <sabmoc> gah
[06:35] <jbailey> sabmoc: Right.  If it's flat it's the praries.  If there's a mountain it's BC.  If there's a big lake, it's Toronto.  If people are talking around me and I can understand them all, it's Quebec, and if it smells like Vancouver but is either hotter or colder than it should be, it's Halfax.
[06:35] <sabmoc> HAHA
[06:35] <jbailey> sabmoc: But notwithstanding that, I tend to think that Africa and India look awfully similar on maps.
[06:36] <daniels> jbailey: And if it's flat, dull, and invaded by masses of hackers once a year, it's Ontario.
[06:37] <jbailey> You're thinking about ottawa.  It's not perfectly flat.  There's one hill there, and they decided to put the parliament buildings there.  There's a hurd of wild cats there, which I think is terribly cool.
[06:37] <jdub> oh man
[06:37] <daniels> Is a hurd like a herd? :)
[06:37] <jdub> jbailey: you're SICK
[06:37] <jdub> ^ exactly
[06:38] <dilinger> daniels: they're daemon cats
[06:38] <daniels> jbailey: and I thought Ottawa was in Ontario?
[06:38] <jdub> daniels: we'll fix him in sydney
[06:38] <jbailey> Err.
[06:40] <Keybuk> a hurd of cats sounds cruel ... poor things must keep dying every few hours :(
[06:42] <jbailey> daniels: There are allegidely mountains in Ontario somewhere.  I haven't seen any sign of them, but this provice is somewhere around a million square kilometers.
[06:43] <daniels> jbailey: Ahr.
[06:43] <sabmoc> jbailey, what is the weather doing over there right now, have your igloos melted yet?
[06:43] <jbailey> The province I'm moving to is apparently larger: 1,450,680 square kilometres.
[06:43] <Keybuk> ouch; we have 1,511 sources in main.  and 1,026 sources we've changed from Debian
[06:44] <jbailey> sabmoc: Mostly.  There's still a bit of snow on the ground my rain and sun over the last 3 days are wearing them down.
[06:44] <infinity> The igloos never melt.  If they did, where would we keep our pet polar bears?
[06:44] <Keybuk> (though some of that latter number are universe ones)
[06:44] <daniels> Keybuk: I blame lsb init.
[06:44] <Keybuk> daniels: I suspect python2.4 is more worthy of your blame
[06:44] <jbailey> Keybuk: A question that came to mind earlier, if we eventually merge everything to where the changelog is the only difference, do we eventually go back to just merging?
[06:45] <Keybuk> if the changelog is the only difference, get elmo to sync it from Debian
[06:45] <daniels> highly unscientific:
[06:45] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~xap/debian/patches% COLUMNS=1200 dpkg -l | COLUMNS=1200 egrep '^ii' > foo
[06:45] <Keybuk> it drops our changelogs, but that's ok because they should be at least mentioned in the Debian one
[06:45] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~xap/debian/patches% wc -l foo
[06:45] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~xap/debian/patches% awk '{ print $3; }' < foo | grep ubuntu | wc -l
[06:45] <daniels> 1656 foo
[06:45] <daniels> 864
[06:45] <jbailey> Keybuk: Ah, good.
[06:46] <Keybuk> daniels: aptitude install dpkg/experimental
[06:46] <Keybuk> daniels: dpkg -l | egrep ...
[06:46] <daniels> Keybuk: ooo, shiny.
[07:16] <mkedwards> wasabi_: wrt ant packaging, which domino needs to fall next?  Can I help?
[07:22] <fabbione> elmo: i think there is an inconsistency in the Sources.gz. kdesdk is in main as source and a couple of libs, but the Sources.gz still reports it as in universe
[07:31] <jdub> jbailey: what are your thoughts on new versions of nptl?
[07:39] <sabmoc> wow tomboy rocks
[07:40] <jdub> http://boudicca.tux.org/hypermail/jackit-devel/2005-Mar/0104.html
[07:40] <jdub> jbailey: ^
[07:42] <sabmoc> schweeb, I have a couple questions about LoCo.
[07:44] <sabmoc> schweeb, knock knock
[07:55] <mkedwards> mdz: word to the wise: "There is no way of recovering an invalid snapshot" (per dm-exception-store.c).
[07:56] <mkedwards> mdz: So don't jog your USB stick when it's your device-mapper COW device.  :(
[08:08] <elmo> what's up with mono being uninstallable?
[08:08] <elmo> jdub: ^-- ; it stops me from test-building beagle
[08:09] <fabbione> elmo: did you read above?
[08:09] <fabbione> elmo: and the Build-Deps for kdesdk will pull in more craft from universe
[08:09] <elmo>     kdesdk | 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu1 | hoary/universe | source
[08:10] <elmo> I don't know what makes you think it's in main?
[08:10] <fabbione> yes... but kdeaddons Build-Dep on libcvsservice-dev (provided by kdesdk)
[08:10] <fabbione> in the pool/ is in main
[08:10] <elmo> katie@jackass:~ $ zgrep kdesdk dists/hoary/main/source/Sources.gz 
[08:10] <elmo> katie@jackass:~ $ 
[08:10] <elmo> fabbione: that's seed inconsistency - it happens all the time
[08:10] <fabbione> ah ok
[08:11] <fabbione> in main there is an older version tho
[08:11] <elmo> things aren't pulled in automatically so we have some control over what gets into main
[08:11] <fabbione> hmmm
[08:11] <fabbione> meh not kdeaddons..kdewebdev
[08:12] <fabbione> kdewebdev is the one that Build-Dep on something provided by kdesdk
[08:12] <fabbione> and kdewebdev is in main afaics
[08:13] <elmo> yes, I know, it's an ongoing thing
[08:13] <fabbione> ah ok :-)
[08:13] <elmo> we're discussing it with the kubuntu folks
[08:13] <fabbione> fine for me than
[08:13] <fabbione> i tought it went in unchecked
[08:14] <fabbione> (tbh these are the last 2 packages for main, the sparc buildd is bitching about :-))
[08:20] <jdub> elmo: how's it borked?
[08:22] <elmo>   mono-mint: Depends: mono-assemblies-base-0.96 but it is not installable
[08:22] <elmo>              Depends: mono-common (= 0.96-1) but 1.0.5-1 is to be installed
[08:22] <elmo> up-to-date i386 hoary chroot
[08:22] <jdub> ergh
[08:24] <jdub> elmo: one for tseng / motu
[08:24] <pitti> Morning
[08:24] <elmo> jdub: k
[08:26] <sabmoc> Is anyone organizing ubuntu-love days?
[08:29] <aj> hrm, so what goes on at these Ubuntu conferences?
[08:30] <Keybuk> the main plan for the sydney one is planning for breezy, I think
[08:31] <aj> ym bendy?
[08:31] <Treenaks> aj: no, breezy :)
[08:31] <Treenaks> aj: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2005-March/000020.html
[08:31] <aj> sabdfl's been gagged and left tied up in the back of his jet or something? :)
[08:41] <dholbach> goood morning
[08:42] <Keybuk> Treenaks: whyfor point?
[08:44] <dholbach> Keybuk: cool, thanks for the /patches/ :-)
[08:45] <Treenaks> Keybuk: something about suggesting badgers :)
[08:45] <Keybuk> only because I couldn't remember the names of the other dwarves
[08:47] <smurfix> Keybuk: Some of them are not quite suitable for release names anyway.
[08:47] <dholbach> morning elmo, could you please sync  lineakd  from sid at some stage of caffeination? :-)
[08:47] <elmo> dholbach: just lineakd?
[08:47] <elmo> it has a bunch of dependent children source packages
[08:48] <dholbach> elmo: i'll investigate
[08:48] <dholbach> elmo: thanks
[08:48] <elmo> dholbach: (I mean lineak-.*plugin, FWIW)
[08:49] <dholbach> elmo: i only had a complaint about lineakd itself and it seems to work with the new debian version
[08:51] <dholbach> elmo: then it'd be  lineakd, lineak-kdeplugins, lineak-xosdplugin, lineak-defaultplugin
[08:52] <dholbach> elmo: because they enforce lineakd versions
[08:52] <dholbach> elmo: did you plan to attend tomorrow's CC meeting?
[08:53] <elmo> dholbach: sure
[08:53] <dholbach> elmo: because right after it, the MOTU crew wanted to discuss the proceedings of universe in the release schedule and mdz already pointed out, that we'd need your input
[08:53] <dholbach> elmo: (  http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUMeeting  )
[08:54] <elmo> dholbach: ah.  hmm.  I have to travel to London at some point - how long is the second meeting likely to be?
[08:54] <dholbach> elmo: we have it as first point on the agenda
[08:54] <dholbach> elmo: and if you don't make it, you could just tell us, how you feel towards it in advance
[08:56] <elmo> you guys want to change universe _after_ release??
[08:57] <dholbach> i guess most of us don't *WANT* to
[08:57] <dholbach> elmo: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseUnmetDeps will give you an idea
[08:58] <dholbach> and that's not even the "doesn't build anymore"-list
[09:00] <dholbach> we just need the input if it's possible or not, because i'd feel a bit safer if it was 
[09:00] <elmo> not being funny, but trying to fix hoary universe now seems like fighting in quicksand.  it's been version frozen for several months now and you guys have come to the party very late (not at all your fault).  have you considered concentrating your efforts on breezy instead?
[09:01] <elmo> oh tehcnically it's possible, just a small amount of work - it's just messing with something after it's been released - even universe - just gives me all the wrong kinds of chills
[09:01] <dholbach> of course... we'll focus on each an every release
[09:01] <elmo> apart from anything else, breezy will probably fix most of these issues, just through auto-sync
[09:01] <dholbach> but i just feel bad for having a fucked-up universe
[09:02] <Treenaks> dholbach: "fucked-up" or "slightly broken"
[09:02] <dholbach> Treenaks: my judgement depends on the DoesntBuildAnymore-list
[09:04] <elmo> dholbach: anymore meaning since warty or?
[09:04] <dholbach> elmo: i don't quite understand
[09:05] <elmo> well anymore implies they did build once?
[09:06] <dholbach> elmo: i heard someone mumbling about test-rebuilding the universe some time ago and never heard of it again... i'm always dreading such a list NonBuildables, but i'm sure we could tackle a lot of dumb stuff with it
[09:07] <elmo> I'm actually importing universe right now into the test-rebuild archive
[09:07] <elmo> main just finished this weekend
[09:07] <dholbach> oh cool
[09:08] <dholbach> where could we check for build-errors?
[09:08] <pitti> jdub: here?
[09:08] <dholbach> hi pitti 
[09:08] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[09:08] <jdub> pitti: yo
[09:08] <elmo> dholbach: I'm not sure - lamont will know
[09:08] <daniels> bleh
[09:08] <dholbach> elmo: i'll ask him then
[09:08] <daniels> elmo: mirnyy needs more connections ;)
[09:08] <elmo> daniels: use a mirror, you tramp
[09:09] <daniels> elmo: we have rsync mirrors?
[09:09] <elmo> boggle
[09:09] <elmo> tons
[09:09] <daniels> yeah, just waiting for /wiki/Archive to load
[09:09] <daniels> i blame you for telling me to use mirnyy instead of auckland
[09:09] <elmo> us.archive.ubuntu.com is guaranteed to be up-to-date too
[09:09] <elmo> god, don't use mirnyy for the archvie
[09:09] <dholbach> elmo: thanks a lot
[09:09] <elmo> archive.u.c is fine atm, cdimage (i.e. mirnyy) is still suffering horribly
[09:10] <daniels> elmo: ah, ok
[09:10] <daniels> it seemed absolutely fucked
[09:10] <daniels> 5KB/sec and always dropping out
[09:10] <daniels> i suppose you can't speak as to whether mirror.isp.net.au is a decent mirror
[09:11] <elmo> yeah, apache's err, not performing well.  I'm not "fixing" it, 'cos I want something to beat thom around the head with when he gets up
[09:11] <daniels> i like your motivations :)
[09:11] <elmo> daniels: I don't know - I'm still look for an australian who can give me a useful answer on who'd be best for au.archive.u.c
[09:11] <daniels> elmo: planetmirror
[09:11] <daniels> absolutely no doubt there
[09:12] <jdub> planetmirror
[09:12] <daniels> they have stupidly fast links to the entirety of the country, a fair few people peer with them, and they mirror the entire, well, planet
[09:12] <daniels> and are very reliable
[09:12] <daniels> hell, they were going to mirror fd.o
[09:12] <daniels> (we didn't get around to setting up a proper mirror infrastructure)
[09:13] <daniels> the only downside to planetmirror is that they don't seem to do an rsync mirror
[09:14] <elmo> yeah, but that's not a requirement for $cc.archive.u.c
[09:15] <doko> morning all
[09:16] <dholbach> morning doko!
[09:17] <pitti> Hi doko
[09:23] <pitti> Morning sabdfl 
[09:25] <sabdfl> hey pitti et al
[09:25] <daniels> sabdfl: 'morning
[09:27] <fabbione> morning sabdfl 
[09:31] <sabmoc> night guys
[09:34] <dholbach> elmo: thanks again! :-)
[09:34] <elmo> dholbach: no prob
[09:37] <janc> Amaranth : good idea, it's about 9h35 here  :-/   ;-)
[09:40] <dholbach> elmo: could you please sync   libgnome2-wnck-perl   from sid, when you do the next bunch?
[09:42] <bob2> is it possible to edit the applications menu in hoary atm?
[09:43] <dholbach> bob2: ask Amaranth, he's writing code to make it happen
[09:44] <dholbach> bob2: but he said "<Amaranth> now, don't say my name anymore it beeps and wakes me up :P"
[09:44] <Amaranth> grr
[09:45] <Amaranth> bob2: You can edit /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu to change the actual structure of the menus and /usr/share/applications contains the desktop files that go into the menu (they're ini files)
[09:46] <pitti> Hi carlos
[09:46] <Amaranth> http://dev.realistanew.com/menu-editor/ is what i have so far
[09:46] <carlos> morning
[09:46] <bob2> so there's no GUI in hoary for this atm?
[09:50] <dholbach> erm... how can a package have two different source packages? (apt-cache showsrc schoolbell)
[09:50] <dholbach> ah... maybe re-packaged
[09:50] <dholbach> that explains, why schoolbell-ssl isnt installable any more
[09:54] <drspin> anyone awake this evening?
[09:54] <sabmoc> who do we talk to about setting up a mailing list for LoCoTeam-CA? or registering the domain www.ubuntu-ca.org?
[09:54] <dholbach> hey mvo
[09:55] <mvo> hey dholbach 
[09:55] <mvo> morning all
[09:55] <dholbach> good morning, seb128 
[09:55] <sabmoc> meh, im going to bed
[09:55] <sabdfl> sabmoc: smurfix is the LoCo team coordinator, he'll be able to help you out
[09:55] <drspin> what script is run when I insert my USB drive?
[09:56] <seb128> hi
[09:56] <sabmoc> sabdfl, thank you
[09:57] <drspin> or better yet -- would it be possible to get RO support for NTFS added?
[09:57] <seb128> ajmitch: have you tried python-nautilus before uploading it ?
[09:57] <sabdfl> drspin: check out gnome-volume-manager, and hal, and pmount
[09:58] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[09:58] <mkedwards> drspin: ntfs support (ro) works fine on livecd
[09:58] <pitti> drspin: what do you mean by "added"?
[09:58] <pitti> drspin: you should already be able to use NTFS removable devices
[09:59] <mkedwards> drspin: it'll let you mount it rw too, but I wouldn't advise it.  <g>
[09:59] <drspin> mkedwards: yes :) :) but the automount scripts for a USB drive doesn't check for NTFS -- therefore my drive doesn't mount when I plug it in and it's a pain in the a$$ to use it (root only)
[09:59] <pitti> drspin: and you can add NTFS partitions to /etc/fstab
[09:59] <seb128> hey pitti 
[09:59] <drspin> in other words I have to manuall mount my USB drive with the NTFS filesystem and only root can use it then
[09:59] <seb128> pitti: you broke gnomevfs :p
[10:00] <pitti> seb128: ??
[10:00] <pitti> seb128: I only added a segfault patch recently :-)
[10:00] <pitti> seb128: you mean #7933? indeed, very odd
[10:00] <mkedwards> drspin: mount -o ro,umask=000
[10:00] <pitti> drspin: no, it should be mounted automatically
[10:00] <mkedwards> (via sudo)
[10:00] <seb128> pitti: yeah, this one :)
[10:00] <pitti> drspin: if not -> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/DebuggingRemovableDevices
[10:01] <pitti> drspin: and please _dont_ use mount
[10:01] <pitti> drspin: use pmount /dev/yourdevice as normal user
[10:02] <seb128> pitti: this crash is due to some distro changes ? Just to know if it should be closed upstream
[10:02] <mkedwards> drspin: pitti's right; I use mount with HD partitions
[10:02] <pitti> seb128: I didn't deal with it yet, will do ASAP
[10:02] <seb128> k, thanks
[10:03] <drspin> pitti: WOW!! 15 or so people have helped me with this and you are the first one to be helpful... followed closely by onkarshinde in #ubuntu... thanks
[10:03] <drspin> sorry to annoy the -devel chan
[10:03] <mkedwards> drspin: I only point out umask= to say that mount doesn't imply root-only
[10:03] <seb128> pitti: I would like to get your opinion on the da_DK breakages for this guy. I've Cc you on the bug, I wonder why it opens en_GB after da_DK
[10:03] <dholbach> morning dredg 
[10:03] <seb128> pitti: the guys has opened a bunch of bugs for differents apps
[10:03] <pitti> drspin: as it happens, I'm the pmount maintainer and caretaker of hotplug stuff :-)
[10:03] <drspin> mkedwards: I use it in my fstab but not sure how to set those on the cli
[10:04] <drspin> pitti: well thanks for the help :) :)
[10:05] <mkedwards> pitti: interesting hal weirdness: hald wedges during startup if a USB stick was present during power-up (probably BIOS brain damage)
[10:07] <elmo> tseng: ?
[10:08] <drspin> pitti: can I annoy you for another moment?
[10:08] <mkedwards> pitti: see comment in http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LiveCDPersistence
[10:08] <pitti> drspin: sure
[10:08] <drspin> pitti: pmount /dev/sda1
[10:08] <drspin> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda...
[10:09] <pitti> drspin: pmount -d /dev/sda1
[10:09] <pitti> drspin: (and /msg please)
[10:10] <sabmoc> Is there any chance I could get some free webspace for hosting some files if they are related to ubuntu?
[10:33] <janc> sabmoc : that depends largely on what you want to host...
[10:34] <janc> (I can't host, but there are several solutions...)
[10:47] <pitti> dholbach: you should ask elmo to sync rxvt-unicode, it brings a security fix
[10:47] <dholbach> pitti: why me? :-)
[10:47] <dholbach> pitti: i'll test it and ask him... thanks 
[10:47] <pitti> dholbach: or any other MOTU
[10:47] <dholbach> <- dogwalk
[10:48] <pitti> dholbach: universe syncs are the responsibility of MOTU, so I don't want to interfere with freezes
[10:48] <ace2001ac> anyone try compiling gcc 3.4.3 on amd64?
[10:48] <dholbach> pitti: thanks for telling me
[10:50] <maswan> ftp-deb@churchill:~> rsync --delete --delete-after -av rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu /export/ftp/mirror/ubuntu
[10:50] <maswan> rsync: read error: Connection reset by peer
[10:50] <maswan> rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(162)
[11:15] <kagou> hi
[11:21] <doko> mdz: still awake?
[11:24] <dholbach> elmo: could you please sync rxvt-unicode from sid?
[11:36] <madduck> daniels: ping?
[11:53] <daniels> madduck: pong
[11:53] <madduck> i just installed hoary's xserver-xorg and had some comments...
[11:53] <madduck> specifically:
[11:54] <madduck> (a) i was asked by debconf 4 times to configure the xserver (apt-get install x-window-system-core)
[11:54] <madduck> i have a de_DE system, and 'nodeadkeys' was the default for the question where i enter ctrl:nocaps usually
[11:54] <madduck> (that was (b)
[11:54] <madduck> )
[11:54] <madduck> the variant question was empty, however.
[11:55] <madduck> and for (a): each time, debconf asked me more questions than before...
[11:55] <madduck> [other than that, it works like a charm] \
[11:55] <daniels> madduck: a) is known
[11:55] <madduck> ok
[11:55] <daniels> for b), i assume nodeadkeys needs to be the variant, not the option
[11:55] <madduck> exactly.
[11:56] <daniels> ber
[11:57] <madduck> dict ber?
[12:04] <seb128> carlos: here ?
[12:04] <trulux> pitti: ping
[12:04] <pitti> trulux: pong
[12:05] <carlos> seb128: yes
[12:05] <pitti> trulux: btw, are you admin of the -hardened ML?
[12:05] <seb128> carlos: rosetta question
[12:05] <trulux> pitti: hey pitti, how are you doing?
[12:05] <trulux> pitti: yeah
[12:05] <pitti> trulux: fine, thanks
[12:05] <pitti> trulux: I got a moderation request email, but I don't have a moderation password
[12:05] <carlos> seb128: rosetta answer
[12:05] <trulux> pitti: lemme take a look
[12:05] <pitti> carlos: rosetta done?
[12:05] <seb128> carlos: how have you planned to handle po files with ubuntu changes. Ie: gnome-panel.po ... if upstream want to use rosetta, they need to have 2 pot files ? One for the stock upstream and one for the package ?
[12:06] <carlos> pitti: not yet
[12:06] <pitti> carlos: just bitching :-)
[12:07] <pitti> seb128: btw, the guy on the ML who complains about a slow gstreamer totem is right. it really sucks :-(
[12:07] <carlos> seb128: yeah, that's the idea. It will be improved in the future but for now, it's going to be done that way
[12:07] <carlos> pitti: I know ;-)
[12:07] <seb128> carlos: merging the common parts ?
[12:08] <carlos> seb128: yes, upstream and ubuntu translations will have a way to share the translations
[12:08] <seb128> nice, thanks
[12:08] <seb128> and when have you planned to push rosetta po files in the language packs ?
[12:08] <seb128> because managing the translations with this bugzilla bug, is *urg*
[12:09] <carlos> seb128: This week people should be able to start translating ubuntu with Rosetta
[12:10] <seb128> \o/
[12:10] <carlos> and next week I hope they will land automatically into language packs
[12:10] <pitti> \o/ . o O { YAY }
[12:11] <jbailey> Do we keep an archive snapshot of the array CDs at all so that the jigdo's can actually work?
[12:12] <jbailey> I'm getting 404's (no surprising) on every package that's been updated since.
[12:12] <seb128> carlos, pitti: any of you mind to comment on #7370  about the langue-packs ?
[12:12] <Kamion> jbailey: no, I've been asking for it for ages
[12:12] <seb128> there is some question about the updates, etc
[12:12] <m0rphx> hi guys. I couldn't file a bug to python-nautilus, so I filed it under nautilus.
[12:13] <seb128> RAAAHHHH
[12:13] <jbailey> Kamion: 'kay thanks.
[12:13] <seb128> m0rphx: this in an universe stuff
[12:13] <seb128> and broken
[12:13] <seb128> simply don't use it
[12:13] <m0rphx> oh, ok
[12:14] <dholbach> seb128: should it be on MorgueCandidates?
[12:14] <m0rphx> it "works" after applying a simple patch
[12:14] <seb128> dholbach: no
[12:14] <seb128> it should be fixed
[12:14] <dholbach> seb128: ok
[12:14] <seb128> ajmitch has uploaded a broken version without testing it
[12:14] <carlos> pitti: could you look into it?
[12:14] <seb128> it crashes nautilus
[12:14] <seb128> upstream have got 4-5 dups this WE
[12:14] <seb128> and people start complaining here
[12:15] <pitti> seb128, carlos: looked at #7370, what should I comment?
[12:15] <m0rphx> seb128: I made a patch for that crash, works for me
[12:15] <seb128> dholbach: do you know who is he ?
[12:15] <pitti> seb128, carlos: nevermind, saw it
[12:15] <seb128> pitti: the current comment, language packs updates for new version and outdated stuff
[12:16] <dholbach> seb128: who?
[12:16] <seb128> dholbach: <seb128> ajmitch has uploaded a broken version without testing it
[12:16] <Kamion> wow, rsync really kills my laptop's I/O bandwidth when it gets going
[12:17] <dholbach> seb128: oh yes... he's one of our MOTUs
[12:17] <seb128> dholbach: ie, new python-nautilus rebuilt for python2.4 breaks nautilus and that's flooding upstream with crashes
[12:17] <seb128> dholbach: I'm not happy with that
[12:17] <seb128> dholbach: guys, install a package before putting it in the archive and break nautilus
[12:18] <seb128> dholbach: don't get it for you, you are doing some great job :)
[12:18] <pitti> seb128: done
[12:18] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[12:18] <dholbach> seb128: thanks a lot... :-)
[12:19] <seb128> pitti: sorry for the comment conflict :)
[12:19] <dholbach> seb128: i guess ajmitch will talk to you in some minutes, he was there ... 10 minutes ago
[12:19] <seb128> dholbach: I've pinged him 2h30 ago, he has not replied :p
[12:20] <dholbach> seb128: guess he was working
[12:20] <seb128> np, don't worry
[12:27] <crimsun> daniels: ping
[12:32] <ajmitch> seb128: sorry, I didn't logout before testing nautilus with nautilus-python, so it didn't pickup the new lib
[12:33] <seb128> ajmitch: np. that's no luck that it makes nautilus crashing for everybody that has it installed
[12:34] <seb128> ajmitch: I'll fix it now
[12:34] <ajmitch> ok, sorry about the hassle
[12:35] <dholbach> seb128: woohoo:  	[gnome-db]  libgda/libgnomedb 1.3.1 released   ? can we now fix mergeant? :-p
[12:36] <seb128> dholbach: I've looked on libgda/libgnomedb, that's a mess
[12:36] <seb128> I think we will keep them in this way for hoary
[12:36] <dholbach> alright
[12:53] <crimsun> lamont: ping
[12:57] <dholbach> hi jinty
[12:57] <jinty> hoi dholbach
[12:57] <dholbach> jinty: i was brooding over  apt-cache showsrc schoolbell
[12:58] <dholbach> jinty: what shall we do about  schoolbell-ssl  and  libschoolbell ?
[12:59] <dholbach> jinty: at least schoolbell-ssl is not installable anymore
[12:59] <jinty> no it is going to die.
[12:59] <jinty> there is a new schoolbell 1.0 source package which only has schoolbell/libschoolbell
[01:00] <dholbach> so putting  schoolbell-ssl  on  wiki/MorgueCandidates  is the right thing to do?
[01:00] <jinty> it's already in unstable, and i've asked doko to bring it in to universe
[01:01] <doko> jinty: eh, it should be ...
[01:01] <jinty> won't schoolbell-ssl just dissappear automatically when the new schoolbell comes along?
[01:02] <dholbach> jinty: it's because of 2 different source packages
[01:02] <jinty> doko: is this the wrong place to check: ftp://ftp.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/pool/universe/s/schoolbell/
[01:03] <jinty> thats the point, the new package is a school"bell" source
[01:03] <jinty> so, from now on there will be 2 source packages again
[01:03] <tseng> elmo: jdub mono-mint has been broken all along afaik, x86 and ppc dont use it, and its too slow to for anyone from other arches to have bothered
[01:04] <doko> jinty: oops, sorry, I didn't ... wait a minute
[01:05] <elmo> tseng: beagle b-d's on it tho?
[01:05] <tseng> for !x86 !ppc
[01:05] <tseng> or thats how it should be.
[01:06] <elmo> ah, ok
[01:06] <elmo> does mono really not support amd64 yet?
[01:06] <tseng> it does via mono-mint, sortof kindof, but its slow as crap
[01:06] <tseng> and no one has bothered to fix whatever it in hoary
[01:06] <tseng> mono 1.1 has native support.
[01:07] <tseng> mono-mint [!i386 !powerpc]  .. that looks correct per debian policy
[01:08] <elmo> yeah, I ran dpkg-buildcheckdeps in the amd64 chroot first
[01:08] <elmo> and cut'n'paste the missing packages into the i386 chroot
[01:08] <elmo> how come we don't have 1.1 yet, btw - just 'cos debian doesn't, or is it not released?
[01:08] <tseng> because debian doesnt
[01:09] <tseng> a) its a new build system, and b) a new packaging policy
[01:09] <elmo> ok
[01:09] <tseng> upstream was very unhappy w/ the old packaging
[01:10] <tseng> (non)progress is tracked here: http://wiki.debian.net/?MonoDebianPlan
[01:10] <tseng> there is some app breakage from 1.1 also
[01:10] <tseng> tomboy doesnt compile, blam needs a patch, muine crashes on close
[01:11] <tseng> fun :)
[01:11] <dholbach> enrico: ping
[01:11] <thom> (also, 1.1 is the unstable branch leading to 1.2, so maybe better waiting for that)
[01:11] <tseng> according to upstream 1.1 is leaps and bounds better than 1.0
[01:12] <tseng> but there are still regressions in external apps
[01:12] <Kamion> upstreams always say that sort of thing :)
[01:12] <thom> tseng: sure, i'm just nervous of getting bit by a last minute change that goes into 1.2 and we have to support both 1.1 and 1.2 cos we have a release with 1.1 in ;-)
[01:12] <Kamion> "IT'S LOADS BETTER. (oh, some shit breaks.)"
[01:13] <tseng> oh, im definately not planning on it for hoary
[01:13] <fabbione> hey Kamion 
[01:13] <Kamion> afternoon
[01:13] <tseng> my plan is wait for debian to post a new policy and core packages, and go to fixing any incompatibilities in other apps
[01:13] <fabbione> Kamion: is the debian-cd source updated on archive.u.c ?
[01:14] <Kamion> where on archive.u.c?
[01:14] <fabbione> Kamion: and is actually the one you are using.. right?
[01:14] <fabbione> Kamion: rsync a.u.c:<somewhere>
[01:14] <Kamion> please don't use archive.u.c/cdimage/ if that's what you mean, use cdimage.u.c
[01:14] <daniels> crimsun: pong
[01:15] <fabbione> there is only one entry with code/debian-cd.tar.bz2
[01:15] <crimsun> daniels: hi.
[01:15] <daniels> sup?
[01:15] <Kamion> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/code/debian-cd.tar.bz2 is updated every time a CD build happens
[01:15] <fabbione> ah ok
[01:15] <fabbione> thanks
[01:15] <enrico> dholbach: hello there
[01:15] <crimsun> daniels: I had a question regarding the "disappearance" of libXinerama_pic.a, but I think I've nailed the real problem (hotkeys ftbfs on ia64)
[01:16] <fabbione> i am going to try to build sparc iso's sometime during this week
[01:16] <daniels> crimsun: s/-lXinerama_pic/-lXinerama/, s/xlibs-static-{pic,dev}/libxinerama-dev/
[01:16] <dholbach> enrico: you're not an "uploader" for ubuntu?
[01:16] <enrico> dholbach: I should be
[01:16] <dholbach> enrico: ah, just because of debtags and debtags-edit
[01:17] <dholbach> enrico: they should be rebuilt against new libapt
[01:17] <crimsun> daniels: right, the problem seems to be an outdated ./configure for hotkeys on ia64 that incorrectly detects the presence of libXinerama_pic.a
[01:18] <enrico> dholbach: There's a new libdebtags in Debian: a very minor change (removed some debugging fprintfs).  Can't you re-pull that one?
[01:18] <enrico> I feel sincerely weird in downloading libdebtags and debtags-edit from hoary and then reuploading them again
[01:18] <daniels> crimsun: right, that'd be a Debian patch, so you'll need to remove that patch and re-run autoreconf -v --install
[01:18] <enrico> And it's not really something that needs me to do it
[01:19] <mkedwards> The actual root cause of the Xinerama_pic thing would be easier to determine given the config.log from the ia64 build.  It thought it saw XineramaQueryExtension in Xinerama_pic.
[01:19] <daniels> mkedwards: er, libXinerama_pic doesn't actually exist
[01:19] <daniels> mkedwards: do you mean in Xinerama.h?
[01:20] <mkedwards> I know it doesn't exist; see http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xosd/2.2.14-1/xosd_2.2.14-1_20041119-0352-ia64-successful
[01:20] <dholbach> enrico: i thought it was common politeness to ask the maintainer before uploading (even in a case of a simple rebuild)
[01:20] <daniels> mkedwards: right: Unpacking xlibs-static-pic (from .../xlibs-static-pic_4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu25_ia64.deb) ...
[01:21] <enrico> dholbach: ah, ok, thanks.  But I don't maintain it for Ubuntu anyway.  Anyway, please go on
[01:21] <mkedwards> It doesn't get any symbols out of it (verified with ldd), but it still puts -lXinerama_pic in xosd-config output.
[01:22] <dholbach> enrico: we have the newest versions already :-)
[01:22] <enrico> dholbach: is that automatic?
[01:22] <daniels> mkedwards: err, it won't be there in ldd; libXinerama_pic is a static-only library, so it'll get linked in regardless
[01:22] <dholbach> enrico: semi-automatic :-)
[01:23] <enrico> cool!
[01:23] <mkedwards> So dh_shlibs doesn't put a dependency on xlibs-static-pic into the libxosd output.
[01:23] <daniels> mkedwards: what needs to be done is that s/Xinerama_pic/Xinerama/ needs to be beaten out of the package, and the Build-Deps updated
[01:23] <enrico> (or, semi-cool :)
[01:23] <daniels> mkedwards: it doesn't need one; it's a static library
[01:23] <dholbach> haha
[01:23] <mkedwards> sorry, typed that before you answered.
[01:23] <mkedwards> OK, so all that needs to happen is that xosd-config needs to drop the -lXinerama_pic.
[01:23] <crimsun> hmm, ok, so we'll need to touch xosd as well
[01:23] <trulux> jezz
[01:24] <trulux> Stefan Esser fscking with "my FUD on hardened-php"
[01:24] <trulux> (the email regarding hardened-php posted to ubuntu-devel)
[01:24] <trulux> what a jerk
[01:24] <mkedwards> (hmm.  Suppose xlibs-static-pic is static?  /me kicks self)
[01:25] <daniels> mkedwards: you need to change -lXinerama_pic to -lXinerama (which will be a Debian patch: just back it out and run autoreconf -v --install), and change the xlibs-static-pic build-dep to libxinerama-dev
[01:26] <mkedwards> OK.  Then we get xosd-config and the linker agreeing on -lXinerama.
[01:28] <mkedwards> crimsun: got that?
[01:28] <crimsun> yep, thanks
[01:28] <mkedwards> dholbach: that'll fix lineak too
[01:29] <mkedwards> pretty much need to rebuild everything that b-d on libxosd-dev afterwards.
[01:29] <dholbach> mkedwards: thank you very much for investigating... i was busy - will catch up on it
[01:29] <mkedwards> dholbach: no worries.
[01:31] <mkedwards> dholbach: small wild goose chase.  wild gosling, maybe.  ;)
[01:31] <dholbach> mkedwards: good work nevertheless :-)
[01:31] <mkedwards> thx
[01:40] <dholbach> elmo: do you know what happened to  scribus  upload 3 hours ago?
[01:41] <daniels> elmo: according to broonie (the debian zlib maintainer), zlib should be synced from debian
[01:43] <pitti> jbailey: ping
[01:43] <elmo> dholbach: who uploaded it?
[01:44] <elmo> daniels: nothing to sync?
[01:44] <daniels> elmo: hmm?
[01:44] <jbailey> pitti: Here
[01:44] <pitti> jbailey: I need another libc upload soon
[01:44] <jbailey> pitti: 'kay.  Soon like today, or soon like maybe tomorrow?
[01:44] <pitti> jbailey: we should coordinate to put out changes into one uploa
[01:44] <pitti> d
[01:44] <pitti> jbailey: tomorrow would be better 
[01:44] <jbailey> pitti: For me too.
[01:45] <pitti> jbailey: :-)
[01:45] <elmo> daniels: version in debian == version in ubuntu
[01:45] <daniels> elmo: oh.  my laptop must be out of date, then?
[01:45] <dholbach> elmo: erm... i uploaded for herve
[01:45] <daniels> elmo: actually, no.
[01:45] <elmo> dholbach: it's in main
[01:45] <daniels> elmo: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/z/zlib/
[01:45] <jbailey> pitti: I have... 3 code patches and one packaging patch, and I'd like to beat the crap out of them.
[01:45] <daniels> elmo: unless some cock uploaded 1.1.2-4ubuntu1 to debian ;)
[01:45] <dholbach> elmo: *ARG*
[01:46] <dholbach> elmo: i'll tell herve
[01:46] <elmo> daniels: 1.1.2-4ubuntu1 is >> 1.1.2-4, I can't sync a _down_grade
[01:46] <daniels> elmo: hrm, ok
[01:46] <pitti> jbailey: okay, can we merge our stuff tomorrow? I only need to update one patch (ubuntu-altlocaledir.dpatch)
[01:46] <elmo> (1.2.2, same diff)
[01:47] <pitti> jbailey: so it might be the easiest thing if I just sent you the patch and the changelog entry
[01:47] <jbailey> pitti: Yeah, sounds good.
[01:47] <dholbach> elmo: thanks
[01:47] <jbailey> pitti: And I'll aim for an end-of-my-day tomorrow upload.
[01:48] <pitti> jbailey: okay, please prod me if you want to upload and I didn't mail you yet
[02:07] <seb128> pitti: debian/patches/14_null_volume_crash.patch, is that something to send upstream or specific to hoary ?
[02:08] <pitti> seb128: I asked the bug submitter to test it; if it works, I'll send it to the upstream bug
[02:08] <seb128> k, thanks
[02:08] <pitti> seb128: I can't test it, I can't reproduce
[02:11] <ogra> seb128, my little evonotify just stopped working due to the timestap change in wnck/metacity. i dont think its worth to fix it but since i want a working mail notification i'd like to know if there is already something in plce that can handle the evo generated d-bus message (else i will have a look how to write such a thing)
[02:12] <seb128> nop
[02:12] <seb128> how does it break your stuff ?
[02:13] <ogra> if i klick the tryicon evo should pop up...but it doesnt. and in .xsesion errors i see  Usage: Gnome2::Wnck::Window::unminimize(window, timestamp)
[02:13] <dholbach> ogra: i synced a new libgnome2-wnck-perl today... does it work with that one?
[02:13] <ogra> seb128, but i dont think its even worth the 10mins to fix it :)
[02:14] <dholbach> or isnt evonotify perl-gtk2?
[02:14] <ogra> dholbach, already in the arch ? 
[02:14] <ogra> yup
[02:14] <dholbach> was like 4 hours ago
[02:14] <ogra> the it might be caused by it
[02:15] <dholbach> libwnck4 -> libwnck16 transition
[02:15] <ogra> dholbach, but i tink the d-bus way is the preferred one....so a little python script recieving the message and showing the tryicon would b cooler
[02:15] <Kamion> daniels: looks like xserver-xorg doesn't honour preseeding of xserver-xorg/config/display/modes
[02:15] <daniels> Kamion: no, it won't
[02:15] <Kamion> daniels: can that be fixed? it breaks kickstart
[02:15] <daniels> Kamion: uhm
[02:15] <dholbach> ogra: i won't stop you :-P
[02:16] <ogra> heh
[02:16] <daniels> it's within the realm of probability, but I'm willing to bet it breaks lots of other stuff
[02:16] <daniels> that part of the code is particularly fragile
[02:16] <Kamion> I know, but I have to mark a big whack of kickstart as unsupported otherwise
[02:16] <Kamion> like it won't always be able to do unattended installs, which kind of defeats the purpose :)
[02:17] <Kamion> I only realised it was broken today, because up until now kickseed was preseeding the wrong question - but I fixed that and then ran into this
[02:17] <daniels> Kamion: right
[02:17] <daniels> Kamion: i'll look at it, but no promises
[02:17] <Kamion> ok, please
[02:18] <Kamion> thanks
[02:18] <daniels> Kamion: patches welcome also, of course ;)
[02:19] <Kamion> daniels: presumably the correct logic is "don't set /display/modes if it's seen and we aren't reconfiguring"
[02:19] <ogra> seb128, i got a user here who deleted his /etc/gconf dir..... (crazy KDE users)
[02:19] <Kamion> except I wonder what the live CD should do there
[02:20] <daniels> Kamion: the live CD is a reconfiguration scenario
[02:20] <ogra> seb128, any iway to get that back ?
[02:20] <seb128> no
[02:20] <Kamion> yeah, but the live CD is also a potential target for preseeding
[02:20] <daniels> Kamion: it handles things differently based on two cases: a) upgrading, b) everything else
[02:20] <daniels> Kamion: initial installs fall into 'everything else'
[02:20] <Kamion> maybe not in hoary, but in the future
[02:20] <ogra> seb128, yup, thats what i thought
[02:20] <dholbach> ogra: apt-get install --reinstall <.........................................................................................>  :-(
[02:20] <Kamion> apt-get install --reinstall doesn't do that
[02:20] <daniels> Kamion: so we'd basically have to either get everything seeded from kickstart and special-case it into the 'upgrading' scenario (everything filled in), or yeah
[02:20] <daniels> Kamion: actually, I have a passable idea of how to attack this
[02:20] <ogra> dholbach, but what ?
[02:21] <Kamion> you need to pass the --force-confmiss option to dpkg
[02:21] <Kamion> daniels: by that point you can't tell kickstart did it - all you have is that the value is set and that the question is fset seen
[02:21] <daniels> Kamion: huzzah!
[02:21] <daniels> Kamion: the modes thing is a bit of a bugger, though, because you realistically can't just preseed modes
[02:21] <Kamion> why not?
[02:22] <dholbach> ogra: no "but"
[02:22] <daniels> Kamion: config/monitor/use_sync_ranges is an important thing to know
[02:22] <ogra> dholbach, i thought probably removing libgtk and then reinstalling ubuntu-desktop, but i have not the slightest idea if it works or what else breakss then
[02:22] <Kamion> kickstart can provide h/v sync
[02:22] <dholbach> ogra: he can't break it any further
[02:22] <Kamion> but kickstart is very much a "you asked for it, you got it" kind of thing anyway
[02:23] <daniels> Kamion: if it can provide use_sync_ranges, that'll do
[02:23] <daniels> Kamion: we can calculate our own sync ranges
[02:23] <ogra> dholbach, i know :)
[02:23] <ogra> dholbach, but what meatn "what package" a simple apt-get install --reinstall cant solve that
[02:23] <Kamion> daniels: it will already provide sync ranges if you use xconfig --hsync=<blah> --vsync=<blah>
[02:24] <daniels> Kamion: even better
[02:24] <Kamion> daniels: so what should use_sync_ranges be set to and when?
[02:24] <daniels> Kamion: let me think about it and hack a bit, but you totally get the wrath of mdz if it's all fucked ;)
[02:25] <Kamion> daniels: mdz gets to resolve competing breakage of primary hoary goals :P
[02:29] <Kamion> daniels: I'll upload kickseed 0.15 so that you can test it once it gets into d-i initrds and stuff
[02:29] <Kamion> daniels: boot with ks=http://riva.ucam.org/~cjwatson/tmp/daniels.ks
[02:29] <Kamion> daniels: ... on a scratch machine though, since that'll wipe the disk
[02:29] <daniels> Kamion: awesome, ta
[02:29] <Mitario> hi everyone
[02:29] <daniels> Kamion: oh, er
[02:30] <daniels> Kamion: interesting concept, this 'scratch machine'
[02:30] <Kamion> daniels: delete all the partitioning stuff from that file, then
[02:31] <daniels> oh, ugh
[02:31] <Kamion> daniels: probably want to grab it to somewhere HTTP-accessible and customise it; I've deleted the partitioning/bootloader bits
[02:31] <Kamion> daniels: it should let you do partitioning manually now
[02:31] <daniels> Kamion: could you please change 'XWindows' to 'X.Org', 'X', or 'X Window System'?
[02:31] <daniels> Kamion: X Windows -> world of trademark pain
[02:32] <Kamion> that's really upstream RH stuff, but done
[02:32] <daniels> thanks
[02:32] <Kamion> (though not in that file, can't be bothered :))
[02:33] <daniels> heh
[02:33] <daniels> i can vim that myself
[02:38] <ogra> hi \sh
[02:38] <\sh> hoi ogra
[02:38] <Treenaks> c:\bin\sh?
[02:38] <ogra> heh
[02:38] <\sh> joke is old ;) 
[02:52] <zul> hey
[02:57] <dholbach> hey zul
[03:16] <Mirv> anyone know which nick Michiel Sikkes uses?
[03:16] <dholbach> mitario
[03:16] <thom> Mirv: mitario
[03:16] <Mirv> ok, thanks :)
[03:30] <daniels> pitti: ... dude
[03:30] <daniels> thom: i hate to say it, but you've just been outdone :(
[03:31] <pitti> daniels: I have to add the Xhosa XPI to moz-ffox-locale-all
[03:31] <pitti> daniels: and I don't want to mess with uuencode crap, since the package build is largely automatic
[03:35] <pitti> ?
[03:35] <pitti> longest upstream version number ever?
[03:36] <daniels> s/upstream //
[03:36] <daniels> even worse than 0.9.3+1.0rc1+reverted-to-0.9.3-0ubuntu1
[03:36] <daniels> or whatever it was
[03:39] <pitti> odd, I had expected that the new m-ffox-locale-all package gets stuck in NEW...
[03:39] <trulux> pitti: got the moderator access?
[03:39] <pitti> trulux: didn't try yet
[03:43] <trulux> pitti: ok, lemme know if there's any problem
[03:44] <trulux> pitti: btw, do you have time for toolchain work these days?
[03:44] <pitti> not really
[03:44] <pitti> the time before RC and final release we have to concentrate on bug squashing
[03:51] <zul> bbl
[03:52] <dholbach> elmo: could you please sync  xli   and   openscenegraph   from sid?
[03:55] <pitti> mvo: here?
[03:58] <dholbach> see you later
[03:59] <trulux> pitti: ok, just for gcc-hardened/-ssp finishing
[04:04] <dholbach> bye
[04:07] <seb128> a rsync on the dvd image is supposed to work ?
[04:15] <schweeb> seb128: that's how everyone I know updates theirs
[04:15] <seb128> rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [receiver] 
[04:15] <seb128> rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(359)
[04:15] <seb128> 
[04:15] <seb128> I keep getting this
[04:15] <schweeb> :-/
[04:16] <Treenaks> seb128: how are you rsyncing?
[04:16] <seb128> rsync -azvP rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/dvd/20050315/hoary-dvd-i386.iso hoary-dvd-i386.iso
[04:21] <mvo> pitti: pong
[04:21] <thom> seb128: prolly too many connections
[04:22] <Kamion> cdimage is overloaded :(
[04:22] <pitti> mvo: is there any reason why php4 4:4.3.8-3ubuntu7.5 doesn't appear in your changelogs tree?
[04:23] <jbailey> Kamion: A download that I started earlier this morning (11h00 GMT or so) claimed 10 hours to complete
[04:23] <lamont> elmo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/... is a clone of it's parent, but for the test distro
[04:24] <lamont> crimsun: sup?
[04:24] <seb128> thom: is there any other location to get that ? :)
[04:24] <mvo> pitti: when did you uploaded it?
[04:24] <pitti> mvo: last friday
[04:25] <Treenaks> seb128: http://images.google.com/images?q=dvd&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search </annoying mode>
[04:26] <mvo> pitti: hrm, let me check
[04:33] <jbailey> pitti: *pounce*
[04:34] <pitti> jbailey: ?
[04:35] <jbailey> pitti: 7987 just came in, it looks like it might be caused by the stat reduction you did.  Would you mind looking at it?
[04:37] <pitti> jbailey: handled, dup of #7835
[04:37] <jbailey> pitti: Thanks.
[04:37] <fabbione> anybody with UML experience around?
[04:38] <pitti> Unified Modelling Language? or User Mode Linux? :-)
[04:38] <fabbione> the latter
[04:38] <carlos> fabbione: I'm using it, but moving to Xen now...
[04:38] <fabbione> heh
[04:38] <fabbione> carlos: i get errors trying to rootstrap a fs
[04:39] <fabbione> elmo: i need to look into it too, but i need something that is more packaged that xen :-)
[04:39] <fabbione> carlos: basically rootstrap barfs becuase 'linux' cant open the init script
[04:39] <carlos> fabbione: there are Debian packages for xen in experimental
[04:39] <fabbione> carlos: do you recall this problem?
[04:40] <fabbione> Kernel panic: No init found.  Try passing init= option to kernel.
[04:40] <fabbione> but there is an init defined there
[04:40] <carlos> fabbione: hmm, don't remember that problem
[04:40] <carlos> fabbione: are you using an initrd kernel?
[04:40] <fabbione> carlos: do you remember how to rootstrap a fs? perhpas it's just me doing something really stupid
[04:40] <fabbione> i am using the default...
[04:40] <carlos> fabbione: from debian??
[04:40] <fabbione> plain deb installed
[04:40] <fabbione> ubuntu
[04:41] <fabbione> modified /etc/rootstrap/rootstrap.conf to point to my mirror and bring up the network
[04:41] <fabbione> that's all the customization i did
[04:41] <schweeb> fabbione: I'm working on packaging xen actually
[04:41] <carlos> fabbione: sorry, I did it about 6 months ago, and since then, I decided to use debottstrap and do it by hand
[04:41] <schweeb> but I use UML as well
[04:42] <carlos> fabbione: I think mdz wrote that script (not completely sure)
[04:42] <fabbione> carlos: hmmm ok.. even doing it manually is fine for me.. mdz wrote rootstrap (the one i am trying to use ;))
[04:42] <fabbione> schweeb 
[04:42] <fabbione> ok.. do you know how to solve that problem?
[04:42] <schweeb> I don't, however, use rootstrap
[04:42] <schweeb> :-/
[04:42] <carlos> schweeb: I'm using xen on Ubuntu and have the Debian package modified to work with Ubuntu, the only change I don't have is the kernel patch
[04:43] <fabbione> ok.. how do i create the image manually..
[04:43] <fabbione> i don't care to use rootstrap..
[04:43] <carlos> fabbione: I was talking about rootstrap, not debootstrap
[04:43] <fabbione> something that works is FINE.
[04:43] <carlos> fabbione: create a file for your filesystem
[04:43] <schweeb> fabbione: you know how to make a sparse file?
[04:43] <carlos> mount it with the loop option
[04:44] <schweeb> make a sparse file how big you want the fs to be, mkfs it, mount loop, then use debootstrap on it
[04:44] <carlos> and do a normal debootstrap installation inside that mount point
[04:44] <fabbione> carlos: ok.. gotcha.. install the um kernel...
[04:44] <fabbione> carlos: and so on, right?
[04:44] <carlos> but really, you should look into xen. my uml machine gets blocked every month or so and I need to ask my ISP to reboot it
[04:45] <schweeb> carlos: hah, mine's been up for like 9 months straight
[04:45] <carlos> fabbione: weel, the kernel is in the host machine, and then, you need to copy the modules into the  /lib/modules of the loop file
[04:45] <dredg> mine's been up for ~100 days.. but then i run the servers that they live on, so my UML gets nice treatment :)
[04:45] <fabbione> carlos: ok.. works for me... thanks
[04:46] <schweeb> carlos: I looked at doogie's packages, then decided to scrap and start over... his are overly complicated... patches in a couple places where no patches need to be added, etc...
[04:47] <schweeb> manually mv'ing files
[04:47] <carlos> fabbione: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-xen/
[04:47] <schweeb> etc...
[04:47] <schweeb> felt like too much of a hack job
[04:47] <carlos> schweeb: are you talking about 2.x packages or 1.x?
[04:47] <schweeb> the 2.x
[04:48] <schweeb> plus, I used cdbs
[04:48] <schweeb> but, I haven't figured the best way to do the kernel patch yet
[04:48] <carlos> schweeb: hmmm, do you have them in any apt friendly place?
[04:49] <schweeb> nope, they're still in my private stash... I'll release something on my website in the next week or 2
[04:49] <carlos> I don't care about the kernel, I'm creating them without using .deb packages
[04:49] <carlos> schweeb: ok
[04:50] <schweeb> carlos: if you feel like sharing your experiences, I made a wiki page for Xen too
[04:50] <carlos> schweeb: URL?
[04:50] <fabbione> this is all so damn complicated....
[04:50] <schweeb> carlos: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/XenVirtualMachine
[04:51] <fabbione> i want my e10k back!
[04:51] <carlos> schweeb: ok, thanks
[04:52] <carlos> schweeb: I had no problems booting an Ubuntu rootfs with Xen
[04:53] <schweeb> did you enable DEVFS, or use an initrd?
[04:53] <carlos> schweeb: no I was not able to use it with initrd
[04:53] <carlos> but didn't try it too hard
[04:53] <schweeb> my machine was also a bit odd... it's on an Asus A7V... and my boot drive was on my secondary Promise IDE controller
[04:54] <carlos> schweeb: I'm using my main server with Xen atm, with SATA hard drives
[04:54] <schweeb> I couldn't get it to mount my root, my guess was it was missing a dev entry
[04:54] <carlos> and it's on production atm
[04:57] <schweeb> carlos: I also haven't really tried even booting it since I started packaging the stuff... haven't had time really
[05:00] <Kamion> hooray, nis kickstart support
[05:00] <Kamion> well, more or less
[05:01] <Kamion> not sure I've got it quite right, it's ages since I did any of that nsswitch.conf mangling
[05:01] <carlos> schweeb: count with me as betatester
[05:02] <Mithrandir> fabbione: did I forget my fleece neck in your car last night?
[05:02] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i need to check... let me ask Ulla.. shw just come back
[05:03] <schweeb> carlos: alright, maybe I'll work on them tonight... they don't come close to passing lintian atm
[05:03] <Mithrandir> fabbione: sure, no worries
[05:04] <fabbione> nope.. it's not in the car
[05:05] <carlos> ok
[05:09] <mdz> doko: here now
[05:09] <mdz> morning
[05:10] <thom> hey matt
[05:10] <pitti> Hi mdz
[05:10] <pitti> mdz: sorry for breaking libc :-(
[05:10] <doko> hi, just wanted to get the python 2.4.1 rc2 into hoary. the final release will be next week after PyCon
[05:11] <mjg59> If I want to produce an ISO with some extra packages from universe, what's the best way to do it?
[05:12] <mdz> pitti: you broke libc?
[05:12] <fabbione> hey mdz
[05:13] <simira> hi fabbione 
[05:13] <pitti> mdz: #7835, the stat() caching stuff breaks for applications that have multiple domains 
[05:13] <mdz> mjg59: extra packages just on the CD, or installed per default?
[05:13] <mjg59> mdz: Installed per default
[05:13] <pitti> mdz: jbailey has to upload libc tomorrow anyway
[05:13] <pitti> mdz: if I don't find a good solution by tomorrow, I will revert the patch to the old one
[05:13] <mdz> mjg59: that involves hacking Task: in Packages; not as convenient as it might be
[05:14] <mdz> I think Kamion has notes on the process
[05:14] <mjg59> mdz: Ah, right
[05:14] <mdz> pitti: one day I will learn to trust my instincts ;-)
[05:14] <mjg59> Also, what do people feel about putting small hardware-specific packages in universe?
[05:14] <seb128> hi mdz 
[05:14] <pitti> mdz: one day I will learn not to touch basic packages close to a release 
[05:14] <mjg59> Something that would pull in packages used for that hardware and set up default configuration
[05:15] <mdz> metapackages?
[05:16] <fabbione> hi simira 
[05:16] <mvo> morning mdz 
[05:18] <mjg59> mdz: Possibly with a small amount of scriptage
[05:19] <mdz> mjg59: can you give an example?
[05:20] <mjg59> mdz: Say "thinkpad-x40" which would depend on tpb and provide a video switch script for acpi
[05:20] <Kamion> morning mdz
[05:20] <mdz> mjg59: I have this idea that is on the list to discuss in sydney, to tie hardware detection to package management
[05:21] <mjg59> mdz: Ok, cool
[05:21] <mdz> mjg59: so that if, e.g., you plug in a particular USB device which requires additional software (say, hpoj), update-notifier would tell you about it
[05:21] <mdz> this sounds like it might tie nicely into that
[05:21] <Kamion> ogra: should hwdb-client get a .desktop file?
[05:23] <mdz> possibly
[05:23] <zyga> mdz: That's cool as long as it's updated
[05:23] <ogra> Kamion, mdz, dont you think the button in h-d-m is enough ? 
[05:23] <zyga> mdz: It's like shared folders telling you to install sharing stuff ;] 
[05:23] <mdz> ogra: not for KDE ;-)
[05:24] <zyga> (too bad there is no install-them-I'm-newbie button)
[05:24] <ogra> hmm...didnt think of KDE
[05:24] <mdz> ogra: Kubuntu doesn't currently use hal-device-manager
[05:24] <ogra> yup, i saw it ...
[05:24] <mdz> they do want hwdb-client, but I don't think we can do it for hoary
[05:24] <mdz> they prefer not to have all the GNOME libs in the default install
[05:25] <mdz> for breezy we can perhaps split the package
[05:25] <Kamion> ogra: oh, I didn't know it was there
[05:25] <ogra> hmm, having hwdb-client itself involves a lot of gnome libs (canvas, pygtk etc...)
[05:25] <schweeb> heh, hwdb-client doesn't like doing the video test over remote X it seems ;)
[05:25] <Kamion> ogra: might be a good idea to write "Ubuntu" rather than "ubuntu" everywhere
[05:26] <ogra> schweeb, could you file a bug ? i'll see if its solvable
[05:26] <schweeb> sure
[05:26] <ogra> Kamion, lol ( have changed it three times now, from small to big and back)
[05:28] <ogra> Kamion, see #6934
[05:29] <ogra> Kamion, mdz, so whats the corporate identity, the logo shows it all in small letters, elsewhere in the system its written non capitalized, a final decision would be appreciated :)
[05:31] <mdz> ogra: the name within a body of text should be capitalized
[05:31] <ogra> mdz, ok :)
[05:32] <mdz> doko: are you here?
[05:33] <doko> yes
[05:33] <pitti> sjoerd: ping
 mvogt * update-manager/src/aptsources.py.in: 
 * src/aptsources.py.in:
 - made "Binary" and "Source" translatable
[05:34] <seb128> mvo: oh, GNOME CVS, nice :)
[05:34] <mvo> seb128: jesus, you have your eyes _everywhere_ :)
[05:34] <mdz> doko: if packaging a zope thing from scratch, should zope-debhelper be used?
[05:34] <seb128> mvo: :p
[05:34] <doko> mdz: yes, it should.
[05:34] <sjoerd> pitti: pong
[05:35] <pitti> sjoerd: have you ever heard of cameras not recognized by hal-hotplug-map?
[05:35] <sjoerd> yeah
[05:35] <pitti> sjoerd: I just found a bug that's so stupid that I wonder why we didn't recognize it more early
[05:35] <sjoerd> their id's aren't in the hotplug map thingy..
[05:35] <sjoerd> oh, nice :)
[05:35] <pitti> hal_hotplug_map: Checking usermaps for USB device vid=0x04a9 pid=0x30ba
[05:35] <pitti> -> hex numbers
[05:36] <pitti> sjoerd: however, h-h-m uses atoi() to convert these vendor/product id strings to integers
[05:36] <pitti> sjoerd: which results in 0 
[05:36] <zyga> seb128: actually I've sent the same patch as you did ;] 
[05:36] <pitti> sjoerd: now I changed it to strtol(string,NULL,16) and it works perfectly
[05:36] <seb128> zyga: about what ?
[05:36] <zyga> update-manager Binary / Source 
[05:37] <seb128> oh, I've just noticed the CVS commit
[05:37] <pitti> sjoerd: or are the numbers converted to decimal in the environment vars?
[05:37] <seb128> I've not sent any patch
[05:37] <doko> mdz: if people have questions, send them to me
[05:37] <sjoerd> pitti: hal passes them in env vars iirc
[05:38] <pitti> sjoerd: hmm, probably it converts it to integer then
[05:38] <pitti> sjoerd: yeah, otherwise almost no camera would work. Okay, please forget the noise, I debug further
[05:38] <sjoerd> pitti: in the cases were i had people whose camera's weren't detected it was just a question of adding them..
[05:38] <sjoerd> pitti: np :)
[05:38] <pitti> sjoerd: in my case the camera is present, but it isn't picked up
[05:38] <pitti> sjoerd: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7387
[05:39] <Kamion> ogra: please file bugs on any other places in the system (other than the logo, or places like filenames) that use "ubuntu" in lower case
[05:39] <schweeb> ogra: you want it assigned directly to you?
[05:39] <ogra> yup
[05:40] <ogra> Kamion, ok
[05:41] <sjoerd> pitti: i'll have a look later on if you haven't fixed it yet by then :p
[05:41] <pitti> sjoerd: right now I do an extra-verbose hal-hotplug-map and ask for executing it
[05:42] <sjoerd> k
[05:43] <mdz> jbailey: 5204 looks like ECLOSEDWRONGBUG, confirm?
[05:43] <schweeb> ogra: okay, submitted
[05:43] <ogra> schweeb, thanks :)
[05:47] <jbailey> mdz: It's two bugs in one, and we dont' have a clone feature.  The hdparm part is finished, hdparm now sets the drives when udev notices them (I uploaded that this morning), and hotplug needing to start earlier is nothoary (per comment 3 and our conversations), so I've marked it as remind for post hoary to make sure that hotplug in initramfs in fact does solve this bug.
[05:47] <dholbach> elmo: was there a problem regarding the syncs of  xli  and  openscenegraph  from sid?
[05:48] <mdz> jbailey: ok, let's keep it open, though, because we get a steady stream of duplicates about it
[05:48] <mdz> milestone is set to 5.10
[05:48] <jbailey> 'kay.  Should I use milestones then?
[05:49] <mdz> in general, yes. if the bug is not fixed, and we do intend to address it in the future, it should stay open
[05:49] <jbailey> 'kay.  I'll tweak my default bugzilla view to only show 5.04 targets, then.
[05:49] <jbailey> I'd been using 'remind' and 'later' for those.
[05:49] <mdz> 5.04 or "---", of course
[05:49] <jbailey> Right. =)
[05:50] <mdz> Kamion: have you had a chance to test the DVD dependency fixes?
[05:52] <dholbach> lamont: elmo told me there was some universe-rebuild-action going on and you probably new, where i could find the logs... can you give me a clue?
[05:53] <lamont> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/byDate
[05:54] <dholbach> ahhhhh, ok... thanks lamont 
[05:54] <lamont> np
[05:57] <mdz> thom: ping, re: #4679, #7711, general firefox 1.0.1 readiness
[05:57] <Kamion> mdz: not yet
[05:57] <mdz> Kamion: is there a new image available which contains the changes?
[05:57] <Kamion> mdz: they're pretty much the same as were done to a few packages post-sarge to avoid stuff being installed from the network
[05:57] <mdz> if the kubuntu bandwidth curtain has been lifted, I'll pull one down
[05:58] <Kamion> mdz: Saturday's should
[05:58] <mdz> Kamion: isn't one built mid-week now?
[05:58] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[05:59] <Kamion> 17 12 * * 2,6   /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/cron.dvd
[05:59] <Kamion> => Tuesday and Saturday
[05:59] <mdz> but tuesday's won't have the fixes?
[06:00] <mdz> I should add the DVD to awty
[06:00] <thom> mdz: 4679 is fixed in hoary, 7711 is top on my list for the rest of the week; otherwise i think we're pretty good for hoary
[06:00] <seb128> Kamion: do you know why the "Set up users and passwords" screen is not in http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/installer-po/ file ?
[06:00] <mdz> thom: last word in 7711 is that it seems like a gtk problem; should seb128 be aware of it?
[06:01] <Kamion> seb128: hmm, probably 'cos base-config isn't part of that file, it should be
[06:01] <thom> mdz: he's on the cc list already, yes
[06:01] <mdz> ah, ok
[06:01] <seb128> Kamion: can you fix it ? I would like to have a full french translation for the basic installation :)
[06:01] <mdz> amu: what is the plan for #7298 (kmail segfault)?
[06:01] <seb128> mdz: seems to be a fileselector crash yep
[06:01] <Kamion> seb128: yes, working on it since I said "it should be" ;)
[06:01] <seb128> thanks
[06:02] <seb128> please let me know when you update it
[06:04] <Kamion> mdz: last Tuesday's won't, no, seeing as I did the work on Friday
[06:04] <mdz> Kamion: oh, you meant this past saturday, not this coming saturday
[06:04] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[06:05] <Kamion> sorry, unclear
[06:05] <lamont> dholbach: I assume that I'm only going to actually look at the ones that are in the archive, but fail on rebuild.  If you see some that aren't in the archive, but now succeed, please feel free to holler.
[06:06] <mdz> ETA 11 hours
[06:06] <Kamion> mdz: starting from install+live?
[06:07] <mdz> Kamion: starting from scratch
[06:07] <mdz> I didn't even attempt rsync
[06:07] <mdz> I'll try it
[06:08] <mvo> same here, ETA: 9h 
[06:09] <mdz> rsync: read error: Connection reset by peer (104)
[06:09] <mdz> oh, that's due to my nightly rsync from like 3 days ago still running
[06:09] <elmo> use a bleeding mirror
[06:10] <mdz> who mirrors the dvds?
[06:10] <elmo> us.archive.u.c
[06:10] <mdz> oh, nice
[06:10] <mdz> rsync, even
[06:11] <elmo> via syncproxy too, so he always mirrors. something insane like every 3 hours too, I think
[06:11] <ogra> elmo, whats the state of my ubuntu.com mailadress, i'd like to use something nicer then hostmaster@grawert.net in hwdb-client to not confuse the user
[06:12] <ogra> elmo, (sending the data by mail is the fallback actio of hwdb-client)
[06:12] <ogra> action even
[06:12] <mdz> elmo: not their cdimage mirror, apparently
[06:12] <mdz> lrwxrwxrwx           8 2005/03/15 06:37:38 current -> 20050315
[06:13] <mdz> i.e., useless to me
[06:13] <mdz> it looks like their last update was 20050318
[06:15] <elmo> hmm, okay, I guess he updates cdimage less ofte
[06:16] <mdz> so back to why cdimage.u.c is resetting my connection
[06:16] <jani> is mail-transport-agent an obsolete metapackage?
[06:16] <jani> I see darcs depends on it but nobody provides it
[06:16] <elmo> jani: err?
[06:16] <elmo> postfix, exim4 et al. all provide it
[06:16] <mdz> jani: it's not obsolete, and several packages provide it
[06:16] <mdz> apt-cache showpkg mail-transport-agent
[06:16] <lamont> dholbach: alogg, clanlib, dia-newcanvas, gmime2, jakarta-log4j1.2 all seem to love you.
[06:17] <jani> hmm why then darcs removes postifx and installx exim ?
[06:17] <seb128> mdz: I get this on cdimage while trying to rsync a dvd image:
[06:17] <seb128> rsync: read error: Connection reset by peer (104)
[06:17] <seb128> rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(515)
[06:17] <mdz> seb128: yes, the same
[06:17] <lamont> dholbach: where would you like your failures sent as I find them?
[06:19] <jani> elmo, apt-get build-dep darcs wants to remove postfix
[06:20] <jani> does it not take that metapackage itno account?
[06:21] <lamont> jani: I bet build-dep takes the real package over the virtual package
[06:21] <lamont> and exim conflicts: postfix
[06:21] <schweeb> exim | mail-transport-agent <-- build-dep
[06:21] <elmo> err, does apt-get really do that?
[06:22] <jani> lamont, so build-dep does not look if I already have postfix then?
[06:22] <elmo> that'd be horribly horribly broken 
[06:22] <lamont> jani: apt-cache show postfix 
[06:22] <lamont> Provides: mail-transport-agent
[06:22] <herzi> what do i need to do to make synaptic show the progress dialog instead of vte when updating packages?
[06:23] <mvo> herzi: uncheck "Settings/Preferences/Show changes in terminal window"
[06:24] <lamont> elmo: my vote is for horribly-broken
[06:24] <schweeb> lamont: mine does it too, the build dep is exim | mail-transport-agent... perhaps it'd work if the order was changed
[06:24] <lamont> schweeb: no.
[06:24] <lamont> s/exim/postfix/
[06:24] <schweeb> or that
[06:24] <lamont> policy says Depend/Build-Dep on real | virtual
[06:25] <lamont> plan for main is to s/exim*/postfix/ for such *Depends
[06:25] <lamont> in breezy
[06:25] <schweeb> gotcha
[06:25] <lamont> unless mdz tells me I may today...
[06:26] <lamont> hrm.. I think part of the reason I was stalling was hoping for breezy to be lunchpad-happy.. easier life then
[06:26] <schweeb> is the problem that apt-get build-dep is stupid and only goes for the real package?
[06:27] <schweeb> (even though the virtual pkg is installed)
[06:29] <herzi> mvo: thanks
[06:30] <Kamion> seb128: installer-po updated
[06:30] <seb128> Kamion: thanks
[06:30] <mdz> lamont: test-build of main is complete and all bugs are filed, right?
[06:31] <mdz> mvo: ping?
[06:31] <mvo> mdz: pong
[06:31] <mdz> mvo: please fix #7399 at your earliest opportunity
[06:31] <lamont> mdz: yes
[06:31] <mdz> mvo: it should be very simple and safe, and adds missing hardware support for a number of cards
[06:31] <lamont> there are about 3 ppc failures that are dups of the others that are not reflected in wb, will do that momentarily
[06:31] <mvo> mdz: will do, sorry for the delay
[06:34] <mdz> lamont: the failure of workrave is expected; elmo will need to migrate a few packages to main and retry it
[06:34] <lamont> mdz: cool
[06:34] <mdz> lamont: (the workrave just uploaded)
[06:39] <ogra> has scribus always been in main ?
[06:39] <ogra> it somehow found its way to the MOTU python transition page....
[06:41] <mdz> ogra: it came into main with Kubuntu
[06:42] <ogra> ahh, that explains it...
[06:44] <zul> re
[06:57] <dholbach> *wave*
[07:00] <Kamion> argh, mail is just coming in faster and faster
[07:01] <mdz> yep
[07:02] <Kamion> oh ye screaming gods
[07:03] <Kamion> #7961 is in fact a really nasty debconf/cdebconf passthrough interaction
[07:05] <mdz> "Today I installed Kubuntu (the full monty)"
[07:05] <mdz> what a great subtitle for a release
[07:05] <mdz> Ubuntu 5.04: the full monty!
[07:07] <mdz> jbailey: re: #1440, which CD image do you need?  us.archive.ubuntu.com has images which are only a few days old, and should be much faster
[07:11] <Kamion> mdz: whenever you run debconf in a chroot, you need to first do something like this:
[07:11] <Kamion> db_get debconf/priority
[07:11] <Kamion> TARGETPRIO="$RET"
[07:11] <Kamion> mdz: and then add DEBIAN_PRIORITY="$TARGETPRIO" to the 'env' around the call to debconf
[07:12] <mdz> ugh
[07:12] <mdz> I shouldn't need to worry about that when faking debconf-copydb, though, right?
[07:12] <Kamion> I'll add something in di-utils to wrap all this, post-hoary
[07:12] <doko> Mithrandir: ping
[07:12] <Kamion> mdz: no, not in that case - only stuff that uses INPUT or GO
[07:12] <mdz> most of casper's stuff uses casper-reconfigure, which doesn't chroot
[07:12] <mdz> does this apply there, or no?
[07:12] <Kamion> you still need to figure out the correct priority
[07:12] <jon1012> hi everybody ^^
[07:12] <Kamion> when using debconf as opposed to cdebconf
[07:13] <Kamion> the passthrough frontend doesn't get it from cdebconf automatically
[07:13] <Kamion> hm, maybe it should; but that's a hairier change
[07:14] <Kamion> I'm less comfortable with doing that than I am with just hacking the four or five things that use debconf that way, right nw
[07:14] <Kamion> now
[07:15] <Kamion> for extra bonus points, debconf uses DEBIAN_PRIORITY while cdebconf uses DEBCONF_PRIORITY, yum
[07:17] <Kamion> mdz: if you want to put this TARGETPRIO thing on your list of "awful hacks that should go away" for UDU, feel free
[07:18] <mdz> Kamion: will do
[07:24] <crimsun> lamont: sorry, was in class.  I had what I thought was an ia64-specific question, but it has been resolved.  Thanks anyhow!
[07:30] <mdz> mvo: I think we definitely need a minimum age in the apt cache cleanup code
[07:30] <mdz> mvo: otherwise there will always be a race (e.g., release upgrades, which will always put the cache over the limit)
[07:33] <mvo> mdz: do you mean only a minimum age as default (not a minimalAge and a minimalSize)? 
[07:33] <seb128> rahhh
[07:33] <mdz> mvo: currently you have maximum size and maximum age, but we need minimum age as well
[07:33] <srbaker> seb128, someone was looking for you saturday.  asked if you irc on the weekends
[07:33] <mdz> mvo: so that we will not remove things which are over maxsize, until they have aged
[07:33] <seb128> locales refuse to generate a locale if you don't have the language-pack for it ?
[07:34] <maswan> Ok, I'm heading off to sleep. Please include my nick in reports about releases.u.c doing something weird, so I'll see them.
[07:34] <seb128> srbaker: depending, I tend to not irc now the WE because as soon as I start it I've 10 people pinging me for something
[07:34] <mdz> seb128: no?
[07:35] <seb128> mdz: I've removed language-pack-fr and language-pack-fr-base because they are outdated and I want to try to new translations
[07:35] <Kamion> maswan: hey, cool, didn't realise releases.u.c had been moved
[07:35] <seb128> now I get
[07:35] <seb128> perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings:
[07:35] <seb128>         LANGUAGE = (unset),
[07:35] <seb128>         LC_ALL = (unset),
[07:35] <seb128>         LANG = "fr_FR.UTF-8"
[07:35] <ogra> lamont, any idea why workrave doesnt find libgnomeuimm-2.6-dev in the chroot ?
[07:35] <mdz> seb128: the language packs remove the locales when they are removed
[07:35] <mdz> seb128: but you can put them back
[07:35] <seb128> and dpkg-reconfigure refuse to generate fr_FR.UTF-8 even with the locale selected as default
[07:35] <mdz> what happens when you try?
[07:35] <seb128>   en_US.UTF-8... done
[07:35] <seb128>   fr_FR.ISO-8859-15@euro... done
[07:35] <seb128>   nl_NL.ISO-8859-1... done
[07:35] <seb128> 
[07:36] <seb128> it skips it
[07:36] <mvo> mdz: right. I'll add this. do you think 2 days is a reasonable default?
[07:36] <mdz> how strange
[07:36] <mdz> seb128: I guess file a bug for pitti
[07:36] <mdz> mvo: yes
[07:36] <herve> seb128, locale removed from locale.gen too?
[07:36] <maswan> Kamion: temporary, to get the load down on mirnyy
[07:36] <mdz> mvo: I am starting to get very concerned about the complexity, though
[07:36] <maswan> Kamion: or at least try. we'll see how it does overnight, hopefully it will be mostly working as usual.
[07:36] <seb128> herve: sure, the locales generated are the one listed here
[07:37] <Kamion> maswan: *nod*
[07:37] <mkedwards> crimsun: did un-hacking xosd work?
[07:37] <seb128> mdz: http://rafb.net/paste/results/yosLmM52.html
[07:39] <mvo> mdz: yes, adding complexity is not good so close to the release. I'll check it and send a debdiff and try to be as carefull as possible
[07:39] <mdz> mvo: perhaps do it as a single for loop, using stat(1) to get the values and compare
[07:40] <mdz> seb128: and no fr_FR.UTF-8 in /etc/locale.gen?
[07:40] <seb128> mdz: no
[07:40] <seb128> and it's selected in the dpkg-reconfigure locales list
[07:40] <seb128> and even picked as the default
[07:40] <seb128> I open a bug for pitti
[07:42] <mvo> mdz: thanks for this idea
[07:42] <ogra> mkedwards, he made it ready, i havent come around to upload it yet
[07:42] <ogra> wb dholbach 
[07:43] <dholbach> ok, now i'm really back :-)
[07:43] <ogra> dholbach, workrave failed with a strange error...(Couldn't find package libgnomeuimm-2.6-dev)
[07:44] <seb128> #8000 
[07:44] <seb128> ah ah
[07:44] <dholbach> bye mvo 
[07:44] <seb128> Is there a prize for the bug #8000 ? :)
[07:44] <lamont> ogra: no clue
[07:45] <lamont> want me to look?
[07:45] <dholbach> ogra: i know, it's because of a yet-to-happen change of packages going universe->main and main->universe
[07:45] <ogra> lamont, ^^^
[07:45] <ogra> lamont, thanks
[07:45] <lamont> ogra: yeah, taht'd do it
[07:47] <mkedwards> ogra: packages that b-d on libxosd-dev will need to be rebuilt after the xosd fix is in.
[07:47] <ogra> mkedwards, ok
[07:47] <dholbach> mkedwards: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseXosdRebuildTODO :-)
[07:47] <ogra> :)
[07:48] <ogra> mkedwards, dholbach is to fast ;)
[07:48] <Kamion> hmm, I think I should start adding the 'installer' keyword to installer bugs
[07:48] <mkedwards> Oh nice.  vlc will work now, maybe?
[07:48] <ogra> mkedwards, not yet...
[07:49] <Kamion> that would make it easier to give people a Bugzilla query to start from if they want to help with installer bugs
[07:59] <Kamion> mdz: do you have access to add Bugzilla keywords?
[08:00] <thom> Kamion: i can
[08:00] <thom> d'you just want an "installer" keyword?
[08:00] <mxpxpod> seb128: could you recompile libmpeg2 on ppc with gcc3.4 so dvd's with gstreamer will work?
[08:01] <Kamion> thom: yes, description something like "Problem is relevant to the installer, and should be dealt with by the installer team"
[08:01] <Kamion> I have a big "change multiple bugs at once" queued up :)
[08:02] <thom> hrm, actually i can't. sorry; thought i had admin rights
[08:02] <thom> Kamion: sorry dude
[08:02] <Kamion> ok
[08:03] <mxpxpod> seb128: rather, mpeg2dec
[08:03] <thom> (i have no wish to do this via mysql direct, for obvious reasons) ;-)
[08:08] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[08:08] <Kamion> mdz: see above :)
[08:08] <mdz> Kamion: already done
[08:08] <Kamion> cheers dude
[08:10] <mdz> thom: do you  know how the "Live CD" entry on enter_bug.cgi works?
[08:10] <mdz> thom: we need to add one just like it for kubuntu
[08:10] <haggai> +1 for that please
[08:11] <mdz> I've added a kubuntu keyword for it
[08:11] <schweeb> who's in charge of the openoffice packages?
[08:11] <haggai> mdz: btw forgot to tell you, klaus knopper (of knoppix) was asking me how you did the livecd based on the deb installer
[08:11] <haggai> at cebit last week
[08:11] <mdz> haggai: did you point him to the casper package?
[08:12] <haggai> mdz: no
[08:12] <mdz> there's also an arch archive for it now
[08:12] <elmo> haggai: good work; we don't want our trade secrets getting out
[08:12] <haggai> hehe
[08:12] <mdz> Kamion: that also means that if you need to change casper again in the future, you can make my life easier by putting your changes in a branch
[08:13] <mdz> Kamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/archives/matt.zimmerman@canonical.com--2004/
[08:13] <mdz> seb128: my panel did *not* crash last night
[08:13] <Kamion> mdz: ta, will do
[08:14] <Kamion> unable to access URL: /~mdz/archives/matt.zimmerman@canonical.com--2004/.listing
[08:14] <mdz> seb128: it had been crashing overnight recently
[08:14] <Kamion> webdav error: 404 Not Found
[08:14] <Kamion> mdz: care to make-archive -l that mirror?
[08:14] <mdz> wha?
[08:14] <Kamion> you can't access HTTP mirrors with baz unless you created the mirror with make-archive -l/--listing
[08:14] <Kamion> (likewise with tla)
[08:15] <mdz> odd, the person who was nagging me to publish it didn't complain
[08:15] <mdz> do I have to recreate it from scratch?
[08:15] <Kamion> AFAIK yeah
[08:15] <mdz> sweet
[08:16] <Kamion> but presumably it's a mirror, not the master archive?
[08:16] <mdz> yes
[08:16] <mdz> I might as well take advantage of this opportunity to convert it to signed
[08:17] <mdz> huh
[08:17] <mdz> the gnuarch wiki says there is a change-archive to make this not suck so much
[08:17] <mdz> but it doesn't seem to be in baz?
[08:22] <lamont> mdz: all you have to do is mirror it to a new archive (and type your passphrase a few million times), nuke the old archive, rename the new one in place, and remove the meta file that says it's a mirror.
[08:23] <lamont> but don't tell lifeless I told you how... :-)
[08:23] <mdz> lamont: I know
[08:23] <mdz> those are the instructions which _used_ to be in the wiki
[08:23] <mdz> and now it tells you to use this unreleased feature instead
[08:24] <lamont> yes, because none of us would be running what's in hoary any more... :-(
[08:24] <mdz> I forget the trick to carrying over the signature stuff
[08:24] <mdz> without signing the entire mirror separately
[08:24] <mdz> or doee that work properly by default now?
[08:24] <Kamion> mdz: one sec
[08:25] <mdz> all of the useful information has been purged from the gnuarch wiki in favour of this unreleased crack
[08:25] <lamont> signed archives mirror just fine
[08:25] <mdz> lamont: with or without make-archive --signed?
[08:25] <Kamion> mdz: echo 'matt.zimmerman@canonical.com--2004' > ~/.arch-params/signing/matt.zimmerman@canonical.com--2004-MIRROR
[08:25] <Kamion> you need make-archive --signed
[08:25] <mdz> right, and that extra magic you gave me in order to prevent it from trying to re-sign the mirror
[08:25] <Kamion> but that rune (or similar, depending on what the mirror's name is) will copy the signatures rather than making you re-sign
[08:25] <lamont> make archive --signed, yeah.
[08:26] <Kamion> lamont: you too, you don't need to type your passphrase a few million times :)
[08:26] <Kamion> lamont: why remove the meta file?
[08:26] <mdz> Kamion: well, in this case my master wasn't signed yet
[08:26] <mkedwards> mdz: I wasn't nagging about casper, was I?
[08:26] <mdz> mkedwards: no
[08:26] <lamont> Kamion: the one that says 'i'm a mirror'
[08:26] <Kamion> mdz: no idea how to change that
[08:26] <Kamion> lamont: that's evil; that means you can accidentally commit to the mirror
[08:26] <lamont> mdz: when I did that conversion recently...
[08:27] <lamont> Kamion: note the step prior, in which you nuke the master
[08:27] <mdz> mkedwards: that was mantiena
[08:27] <Kamion> lamont: oh, I see :)
[08:27] <lamont> yeah
[08:27] <Kamion> fun
[08:27] <mdz> who accused me of being impossible to work with because my code was in the source package rather than in revision control
[08:27] <mdz> then I put it into arch and published a mirror
[08:27] <mdz> and he said he was happy then
[08:27] <mdz> but apparently he didn't even try to use it, because it was broken
[08:28] <mkedwards> mdz: your code's not in revision control, it's in arch.  :)
[08:28] <mdz> Kamion: non-broken mirror syncing now
[08:28] <lamont> baz make-archive --signed (--listing) lamont@ubuntu.com--2005-COPY
[08:28] <mdz> mkedwards: ssshh, there are arch developers all around us
[08:28] <lamont> doh
[08:28] <ogra> hehe
[08:28] <lamont> baz make-archive --signed (--listing) -m lamont@ubuntu.com--2005 lamont@ubuntu.com--2005-COPY
[08:28] <lamont> baz archive-mirror lamont@ubuntu.com--2005
[08:28] <lamont> <lots of signing>
[08:28] <lamont> cd /var/lib/arch
[08:29] <mkedwards> gnashing their pointy teeth and gibbering
[08:29] <lamont> rm -rf lamont@ubuntu.com--2005
[08:29] <lamont> mv lamont@ubuntu.com--2005-COPY lamont@ubuntu.com--2005
[08:29] <lamont> (ok, I actually just moved it out of the way until I was sure it worked...)
[08:29] <Kamion> lamont: that would never have occurred to me - fun trick
[08:30] <lamont> rm lamont@ubuntu.com--2005/=meta-info/mirror
[08:30] <mdz> Kamion: those are the steps that used to be in the gnuarch wiki
[08:30] <lamont> then really really really make sure you nuke the original master, because it's really really really bad to have two masters...  and lifeless will beat you up.
[08:30] <mdz> I suppose I should be happy they're updating the docs, but it would be nice to keep the old docs around until they actually "release"
[08:31] <ogra> could someone tell me what i did wrong with xosd before i disturb our ftp master ? crimsun changed it, i checked the packaging (which seems ok), signed and uploaded it....am i supposed to put myself in the Changed By field to get it accepted for main ?
[08:31] <Kamion> this is the problem with using a wiki simultaneously as design discussion forum and user documentation
[08:31] <lamont> mdz: I fear that the gnuarch crowd is assuming that everyone is running crack-o-the-day.  Why would you want something older, anyway?
[08:31] <Kamion> ogra: you certainly shouldn't change Changed-By:
[08:31] <tseng> ogra: im not in keyring@ and i get stuff uploaded Changed By me
[08:31] <mdz> lamont: omg ur code is 2 weeks old it's WORTHLESS
[08:31] <lamont> mdz: zactly
[08:31] <ogra> tseng, it simply disappeared
[08:31] <Burgundavia> mdz: incorrect descriptions in packages? Should I fire the email off to you? (It just got sent to ubuntu-doc)
[08:32] <mdz> Burgundavia: bugzilla
[08:32] <tseng> ogra: its not NEW?
[08:32] <Burgundavia> mdz: will open bug
[08:32] <mdz> Burgundavia: or if it's a universe package, MOTU
[08:32] <ogra> Kamion, i thought so, so i'm wondering why it silently disappeared
[08:32] <ogra> tseng, nope
[08:32] <Burgundavia> mdz: checked, its main
[08:33] <lamont> Kamion: and that discussion led to a wonderful semantics discussion on whether or a mirror of the archive is the same archive, or a different archive.  (it's the same archive, they tell me.  Even though it's on a different machine in a different location and all that...)
[08:33] <ogra> tseng,  apt-cache showsrc libxosd2
[08:34] <ogra> i uploaded 2.2.14-1ubuntu1 for crimsun
[08:34] <ogra> 2.2.14-1 is in the archive
[08:35] <mkedwards> mdz: xosd change fixes FTBFS for all xosd-using packages
[08:35] <mkedwards> (FTBFS on ia64, anyway)
[08:35] <ogra> mkedwards, ia64 is not release critical afaik
[08:35] <elmo> Kamion: I think we need /releases/ to not be on cdimage.u.c
[08:36] <mdz> you'd think everyone who wanted kubuntu would have it by now
[08:36] <mdz> at least the first big wave
[08:36] <Kamion> elmo: can I leave snapshots like arrays there?
[08:36] <Kamion> elmo: Mark didn't want them on releases
[08:36] <elmo> Kamion: sorry, what I mean is, we need to not duplicate stuff on releases.u.c and cdimage.u.c
[08:37] <Kamion> but sure, I can unpublish the preview from there
[08:37] <mkedwards> ogra: neither are xosd-using packages, which are in universe.  :)  But the Xinerama_pic stuff will bite.
[08:37] <kagou> hi
[08:37] <ogra> elmo, sorry to bother you with that, but could you look what happend to my xosd upload
[08:37] <elmo> xosd_2.2.14-1ubuntu1_source.changes
[08:37] <elmo> ACCEPT
[08:37] <elmo> that?
[08:38] <Kamion> urr
[08:38] <Kamion> RSA host key for syncproxy.ubuntu.com has changed and you have requested strict checking.
[08:38] <elmo> urr?
[08:38] <elmo> oh, _crap_
[08:38] <elmo> sorry
[08:38] <ogra> elmo, yep, no trace on hoary-chages ?
[08:38] <ogra> changes even
[08:38] <Kamion> elmo: now claims to be 6b:cf:da:50:e0:21:28:20:55:73:5c:76:52:87:e1:89
[08:38] <Kamion> although I guess it's safe to ignore that, I don't exactly need to trust those machines
[08:38] <elmo> Kamion: yes, that's right
[08:39] <ogra> elmo, but thanks, that becalms me :)
[08:39] <mdz> kubuntu/amd64 seems to be incredibly popular
[08:40] <Kamion> elmo: (did you purge/reinstall openssh-server or something?)
[08:40] <elmo> From: crimsun@fungus.sh.nu (Daniel T. Chen (new))
[08:40] <ogra> yup
[08:40] <elmo> possibly that broke mailmn
[08:40] <elmo> kamion: yes, to get the DSA version
[08:40] <ogra> ah, ok
[08:40] <Kamion> ah, right
[08:40] <mdz> elmo: possibly that broke postfix; that's against RFC2822
[08:41] <Kamion> er, no it's not?
[08:41] <Kamion>    Strings of characters enclosed in parentheses are considered comments
[08:41] <Kamion>    so long as they do not appear within a "quoted-string", as defined in
[08:41] <Kamion>    section 3.2.5.  Comments may nest.
[08:41] <elmo> Daniel T. Chen (new) <crimsun@fungus.sh.nu>
[08:42] <elmo> now _THAT'S_ against RFC2822
[08:42] <elmo> katie turned it into the valid form
[08:42] <ogra> elmo, i see, i'll ask him wher the (new) coes from
[08:42] <ogra> comes even
[08:42] <elmo> ogra: his GPG key I'd imagine
[08:42] <Kamion> ogra: it's not the (new) that's against RFC2822 there, it's the unquoted "."
[08:42] <ogra> oh
[08:42] <ogra> ok
[08:42] <Kamion> "Daniel T. Chen (new)" <crimsun@fungus.sh.nu>
[08:42] <Kamion> or
[08:43] <Kamion> "Daniel T. Chen" (new) <crimsun@fungus.sh.nu>
[08:43] <Kamion> either of those would be valid
[08:43] <ogra> blind me 
[08:43] <haggai> mdz: why did you assign kubuntu bugs to amu and not to kubuntu-devel?
[08:43] <mdz> haggai: assigning bugs to a mailing list isn't generally productive
[08:44] <mdz> kubuntu-devel is the QA contact so that the traffic is CC'd
[08:44] <Amaranth> seb128: PING?
[08:44] <seb128> sort of pong
[08:44] <Amaranth> heh
[08:44] <Amaranth> seb128: you're the only one that seemed to have any idea how this menu spec works
[08:44] <seb128> what about reading it, so you have an idea too ? :)
[08:45] <Amaranth> i've read it completely a couple times now
[08:45] <mdz> haggai: are you officially devoting much of your day to kubuntu now?  if so, some of those should go to you
[08:45] <Amaranth> i'm down to one last thing that i think might be a gnome-menus bug
[08:45] <haggai> mdz: yes I am
[08:46] <Amaranth> i have testingthis.desktop in the user and system locations and the menus are choosing the system one. new user entries show up just fine though
[08:46] <elmo> Kamion: lemme know when it's unpublished - no rush, just so I know
[08:46] <Amaranth> this is the non-root editting of root menus holy grail
[08:46] <ogra> elmo, thanks for the time btw :)
[08:46] <elmo> ogra: no prob
[08:46] <seb128> Amaranth: you use your user .menu files ?
[08:47] <seb128> not the /etc/xdg/menu ones
[08:47] <Amaranth> i don't know how gnome-menus does it, i have python-xdg reading ~/.config/menus/applications.menu
[08:47] <Kamion> elmo: I've TODOed it, because I want to update the publish-release script at the same time
[08:47] <Kamion> elmo: not putting it off though, will do it tonight or tomorrow
[08:47] <elmo> Kamion: cool, thanks
[08:48] <seb128> Amaranth: I don't think that's ~/.config
[08:48] <Amaranth> seb128: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=100619&postcount=10 <--thats what the applications.menu looks like
[08:48] <Amaranth> seb128: that's where kmenuedit puts it's stuff
[08:50] <Amaranth> seb128: it puts .desktop entries in ~/.local/share/applications and .menu files in ~/.config/menus
[08:50] <seb128> Amaranth: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=170702
[08:51] <seb128> MENU_VERBOSE=1 gnome-menu-spec-test
[08:51] <seb128> Amaranth: the bug has an example
[08:52] <Amaranth> yikes
[08:52] <Amaranth> i think i want to pipe the output of that to a file
[08:53] <elmo> argh
[08:54] <Amaranth> seb128: yeah, that shows my desktop file loading from the system menus instead of the user ones
[08:56] <Amaranth> seb128: hell, that doesn't show anything loading from user menus, which is obviously wrong because i'm looking at an entry loading from user menus right now
[08:56] <seb128> Amaranth: MENU_VERBOSE=1 gnome-menu-spec-test
[08:56] <Amaranth> that's what i did
[08:56] <seb128> and what does it say about your local .menu ?
[08:57] <buxy> Kamion: where can I find the scripts used to generate ubuntu CD images / live CD ?
[08:57] <Amaranth> nada
[08:58] <seb128> Amaranth: 
[08:58] <seb128> Loading menu layout from "/etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu"
[08:58] <seb128> Loading "/etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu" from disk
[08:58] <seb128> Set basedir "/etc/xdg/menus"
[08:58] <seb128> Set menu name "applications"
[08:58] <seb128> 
[08:58] <seb128> etc here
[08:58] <mdz> ogra,seb128: can you think of any simple way to address bug #7150 for Hoary?
[08:58] <mdz> (xscreensaver locking on the live CD)
[08:58] <Amaranth> seb128: that doesn't even seem to show up in here
[09:00] <seb128> mdz: hum, out of turning xscreensaver off, nop
[09:01] <seb128> Amaranth: where is your .menu file ?
[09:01] <buxy> mdz: I asked that to Kamion first, but maybe you can also help me: where can I find the scripts used to generate ubuntu CD images / live CD ?
[09:01] <Amaranth> seb128: ~/.config/menus/applications.menu
[09:01] <mdz> buxy: we use debian-cd
[09:01] <seb128> Amaranth: apparently I don't have access to your homedirectory 
[09:01] <mdz> with some modifications that Kamion made
[09:02] <seb128> Amaranth: so that's not really useful
[09:02] <Amaranth> seb128: Oh, I gave you a link, let me get it again.
[09:02] <seb128> Amaranth: ie: is the content somewhere ?
[09:02] <Amaranth> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=100619&postcount=10
[09:02] <Amaranth> what he has is what i have
[09:02] <buxy> mdz: and for the live CD ? I doubt it's also debian-cd... :-)
[09:03] <mdz> buxy: yes, it is
[09:03] <seb128> Amaranth: 
[09:03] <seb128> Set basedir "/home/gnome/.config/menus"
[09:03] <seb128> Set menu name "applications"
[09:03] <seb128> File loaded OK
[09:03] <seb128> Resolving files in: <Root>
[09:03] <seb128> Resolving files in: <!DOCTYPE Menu PUBLIC "-//freedesktop//DTD Menu 1.0//EN"
[09:03] <seb128> etc
[09:03] <seb128> on the top of the log
[09:03] <buxy> mdz: duh, must be "many" modifications then, okay I'll wait input from Kamion then
[09:03] <ogra> mdz, what seb128 said, except the LiveCD releases at least a week later, then i could try to hack something together, but currenty i'm full with tasks
[09:04] <mdz> ogra: how could we implement what seb128 said?  is there a configuration file which can disable the locking functionality entirely?
[09:04] <Amaranth> ah, now that shows up
[09:04] <ogra> mdz, dunno, i'll lookinto it
[09:04] <seb128> Amaranth: ??
[09:04] <mdz> at the least, we would need to a) remove the menu entry, and b) adjust acpi-support configuration to avoid its explicit locking
[09:04] <Amaranth> seb128: i dunno, i couldn't find that part in my log before
[09:05] <seb128> Amaranth: grep is nice :p
[09:05] <ogra> mdz, it has a configuration dialog, so there must be a config file anywhere....
[09:05] <Amaranth> i had it in gedit and search for Loading menu layout
[09:05] <Amaranth> nothing showed up, i think it was because of the was i was logging it
[09:06] <Amaranth> anyway, it just says it's loading my menu then moves on to the system one and starts loading desktop entries
[09:06] <Amaranth> Resolving files in: <MergeFile>/etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu</MergeFile>
[09:06] <Amaranth> Merging file "/etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu"
[09:06] <ogra> mdz, i'll find it and tell you what we can do....but i dunno anything about the kde dialog
[09:08] <seb128> Amaranth: from the spec
[09:09] <seb128> "If the user adds a menu item, you use <Include><Filename>foo.desktop</Filename></Include>."
[09:10] <seb128> Amaranth: works fine here, you just need to add an include in ~/.config/menus/applications.menu
[09:11] <svenl> Kamion: 
[09:11] <svenl> Kamion: would you consider enabling -chrp dailies of the netboot stuff ? 
[09:12] <svenl> Kamion: now that the kernels have mkvmlinuz support ? 
[09:12] <Amaranth> seb128: that should make the user entry show up over the system one?
[09:12] <elmo> Kamion: do you have any array deadlines/cdimage creating sessions coming up?
[09:14] <Amaranth> seb128: that doesn't do anything :/
[09:14] <seb128> Amaranth: yep
[09:14] <seb128> have you even tried ?
[09:14] <Amaranth> yes
[09:14] <seb128> what is in the log ?
[09:14] <seb128> is in the menu ?
[09:14] <seb128> s/is/is it/
[09:15] <seb128> how have you added it ?

[09:15] <Amaranth> i put that in my applications.menu below the MergeFile line
[09:15] <seb128> and it's not in the menu ?
[09:16] <Amaranth> it is, but it always was
[09:16] <Amaranth> i need the user version
[09:16] <seb128> the use one ?
[09:16] <Amaranth> no, it's still the system one
[09:16] <seb128> is the user version in the menu ?
[09:16] <Amaranth> no
[09:18] <Amaranth> gnome-menu-spec-test shows my version and the system version being merged
[09:18] <Amaranth> but it looks like it's picking the system version
[09:18] <Amaranth> Union of 0x80c4178 and 0x80c7d70
[09:18] <Amaranth>  Adding to set 0x80c4178 entry gcalctool.desktop
[09:19] <Amaranth> my version is loaded as 0x80c7d70
[09:20] <seb128> Amaranth: I think that you need to make totem-user.desktop
[09:20] <seb128> Include it
[09:20] <seb128> and Mask totem.desktop
[09:20] <Amaranth> mask?

[09:21] <Amaranth> oh
[09:22] <shaya> seb128: you here?
[09:22] <seb128> sort of
[09:22] <shaya> does evince thumbnailer work for you in nautilus?
[09:22] <shaya> it doesn't do anything for me and othres
[09:22] <Amaranth> arg!
[09:22] <shaya> while for a few it seems to work fine
[09:22] <shaya> any ideas?
[09:22] <seb128> shaya: works fine
[09:22] <seb128> try to run it from the command line
[09:23] <seb128> Amaranth: what ?
[09:23] <shaya> it runs and can create a png when run manually
[09:23] <Amaranth> still nothing
[09:23] <seb128> Amaranth: no way that doesn't work
[09:23] <Amaranth> maybe killing gnome-panel isn't enough to make it update, let me look in my editor
[09:23] <seb128> Amaranth: Including a menu item works, Excluding too
[09:23] <seb128> no need to kill it
[09:24] <seb128> gamin follows the changes
[09:24] <Amaranth> ok, it's just gnome-panel and/or gnome-menus
[09:24] <Amaranth> then there it a bug
[09:24] <Amaranth> err, is
[09:24] <seb128> works fine here (tm)
[09:24] <seb128> shaya: /desktop/gnome/thumbnailers/application@pdf/command gconf key ?
[09:24] <Amaranth> yeah, sometimes it does
[09:24] <Amaranth> other times it doesn't
[09:24] <seb128> gamin is 0.0.26 ?
[09:24] <shaya> evince-thumbnailer -s %s %u %o
[09:24] <Amaranth> seems totally random and i haven't been able to reproduce it working or not working in certain situations
[09:25] <Mithrandir> doko: pong
[09:25] <shaya> and "enable" is checked
[09:25] <Amaranth> 0.0.26, yeah
[09:25] <seb128> shaya: so no idea, do you have some thumbnails for other stuff ?
[09:25] <shaya> yes
[09:25] <shaya> movies
[09:25] <shaya> pictures
[09:25] <seb128> no sense
[09:25] <shaya> anyway to debug this
[09:25] <shaya> i.e. have nautilus output a log
[09:25] <seb128> no
[09:25] <shaya> bah
[09:25] <shaya> stupid nautilus
[09:25] <seb128> the gconf key is set, the command works
[09:26] <seb128> are you sure it doesn't thumbnail it ?
[09:26] <seb128> have you "touch file.pdf" ?
[09:26] <shaya> its not displaying the thumbnauls
[09:26] <shaya> hold on
[09:26] <shaya> let me try that while viewing it
[09:26] <shaya> ah
[09:26] <shaya> that did it
[09:26] <seb128> so that works
[09:26] <shaya> but only for that pdf
[09:26] <shaya> not for the old ones in the dir
[09:26] <seb128> touch *.pdf
[09:26] <shaya> yea, but why do I have to do that?
[09:27] <seb128> because you have screwed the preview somewhat
[09:27] <seb128> and it doesn't update if the file doesn't change
[09:27] <seb128> you need to update the timestamp to force a refresh
[09:27] <Amaranth> seb128: You're my hero. ;)
[09:27] <seb128> ie: perhaps you had a broken thumbnailer
[09:28] <Amaranth> I don't know why I didn't think of that....
[09:28] <seb128> it has masked the file has thumbnailed
[09:28] <seb128> and it doesn't try to update
[09:28] <seb128> Amaranth: np :)
[09:28] <shaya> hmm
[09:28] <seb128> s/masked/marked/
[09:28] <seb128> shaya: you can rm -rf ~/.thumbnails/fail/
[09:28] <seb128> and restart nautilus
[09:29] <seb128> should do the trick
[09:29] <shaya> only problem with these thumbials is that they screw up the spacing
[09:29] <shaya> hmm
[09:31] <shaya> anyways, thanks
[09:32] <seb128> np
[09:56] <jbailey> mdz: Ah thanks, that's worth knowing.  I'm getting Jordi to pull down array 6 and the current nightly.  It's probably finished by now (but he's certainly gone home for the day).  I'll keep that in mind for next time, though.
[09:57] <seb128> do we have a server actually working to rsync a dvd image ?
[10:06] <mvo> hey Mitario 
[10:07] <Mitario> mvo, heya
[10:13] <zul> later guys
[10:18] <Mitario> mvo, i have some kind of radical thought here :)
[10:20] <mvo> Mitario: two week before the release :)
[10:21] <Mitario> mvo, oh, that's noproblem my idea can be implemented in 10 minutes coding ;-)
[10:21] <mvo> Mitario: tell me about it then 
[10:21] <Mitario> ok, let's say a /security/-update will never remove any packages from the system, agree with that?
[10:22] <mdz> seb128: not anonymously
[10:22] <Mitario> mvo, anyways not noticable for the user - as in, some front-end app is removed
[10:23] <mvo> Mitario: right, u-m will never remove or add packages
[10:24] <Mitario> mvo, ok, why don't we drop the 'select/unselect' update column, and let the 'install' button perform a dist-upgrade always
[10:25] <Mitario> mvo, i mean, most users just want to know there are updates and install them, no matter what happens
[10:25] <mvo> Mitario: we never do a dist-upgrade :) only upgrades. but I think it might be nice to have the checkboxes because a user might decide to not-install some packages (because e.g. it's too big right now)
[10:26] <Mitario> hmm, yeah true.. but won't a user which already knows he doesn't want to install that package but does want to install the others use synaptic?
[10:28] <Mitario> mvo, and security updates will probably only change 1 - 3 packages
[10:28] <Mitario> i've never seen security updates with > 10 packages
[10:30] <luis> FWIW, some kde security updates for suse and redhat have required updating all kde packages
[10:30] <luis> which is >> 10
[10:30] <Riddell> luis: any idea which ones?
[10:30] <luis> I don't recall
[10:31] <luis> just offering it as an edge case where security updates could have more than 10 packages
[10:31] <luis> I presume you could see the same thing with gnome, though to the best of my knowledge it has never happened
[10:31] <thom> mdz: i know how it works, yes
[10:31] <mdz> thom: can you work the magic for kubuntu?
[10:31] <thom> mdz: i'll get the kubuntu stuff done after dinner - haggia; is that mail from the other day still valid
[10:32] <thom> haggai, even
[10:32] <mdz> thom: it would save both me and the kubuntu team a lot of time moving bug saround
[10:32] <thom> sure
[10:32] <thom> be about 45 minutes?
[10:32] <Riddell> mdz: what is thom's magic for kubuntu?
[10:32] <thom> mdz: can you have a quick look over popcon.ubuntu.com and see if it looks ok?
[10:32] <azeem_> *big magic*
[10:33] <mdz> Riddell: having a 'kubuntu' pseudo-product in Bugzilla to get bugs automagically copied to kubuntu-devel and assigned to someone reasonable
[10:34] <Riddell> ooh yes please thom 
[10:35] <mdz> thom: ia64 seems to be very nearly white-on-white
[10:35] <mdz> in the legend
[10:35] <mdz> er, amd64
[10:35] <thom> mdz: amd64, yes
[10:35] <mdz> and the scale is a bit crowded :-)
[10:35] <thom> heh
[10:35] <thom> i wanna look at the debian code and see if they have a fix for that
[10:36] <mdz> there's certainly a lot which could be done to prettify it, but I think it's certainly ready to publish
[10:36] <thom> i really want to rewrite the whole thing to use templates for the html and so on, but that's way down on the priority list
[10:37] <thom> righto
[10:38] <haggai> thom: the mail is still valid, but a new Product would be even better than the description change I asked for
[10:49] <Kamion> buxy: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/debian-cd/code.tar.bz2 (no diff though, it's a tarball of modifications to somewhat-out-of-date CVS ...); it's basically a horrible nasty hack because I haven't been able to convince anyone to import debian-cd into arch so that I can maintain local changes sanely
[10:49] <ogra> seb128, seen that ? https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/239
[10:51] <Kamion> svenl: sure, although the kernel upload that adds mkvmlinuz stuff hasn't actually happened yet - I'm waiting for that first
[10:51] <Kamion> elmo: nope, nothing in the next week or so that I know of
[10:51] <Kamion> elmo: hoary release candidate is the next thing on my list (30th)
[10:52] <Kamion> buxy: (the casper source package is the thing to look at for how the live CD works)
[10:55] <seb128> ogra: any example ?
[10:56] <ogra> seb128, nope, i'm just discovering malone and if that would be real, it would be worrying
[10:57] <ogra> seb128, no idea if thats an actual bug, but ccording to bradb it could be legit...
[10:58] <bradb> ogra: as in, i'm unaware of anyone having used prod lp just for testing purposes.
[10:59] <ogra> ok
[11:04] <mdz> thom: hmm, the popularity-contest dialog still says debian, even though it's not the debian popularity contest
[11:04] <mdz> thom: since we install it by default disabled, debconf isn't very interesting; perhaps we should just ship a command-line tool to turn it on
[11:04] <thom> yeah; i wasn't sure how to change it without blowing away the translations
[11:04] <thom> hrm, should be trivial to write; will do
[11:08] <mvo> is linux-restricted-modules installed by default for new installs?
[11:08] <Mithrandir> iirc, yes
[11:10] <mdz> mvo: yes
[11:11] <mdz> has been since Warty
[11:11] <mdz> thom: or maybe update the template, and wrap it in debconf-with-gnome-frontend-love
[11:11] <mdz> thom: then we could add a .desktop for it too
[11:11] <mdz> though that might be too in-your-face
[11:11] <mdz> I do want to find a way to encourage participation
[11:11] <mdz> but I agree that we shouldn't ask during the install
[11:12] <mvo> mdz, Mithrandir: thanks. I'll add the pcmcia driver for avm pcmcia-fritz then too to the pcmcia-cs package
[11:12] <haggai> is rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com turned off or something?
[11:12] <haggai> rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [receiver] 
[11:12] <mdz> mvo: yes, I think it's easiest to add everything to pcmcia-cs, since the modules can come from different packages
[11:12] <mdz> haggai: it's apparently broken
[11:12] <mdz> I asked elmo about it, and he berated me for not using a mirror
[11:13] <mdz> which I assume means he knows it's broken
[11:13] <haggai> mdz: hmm thanks I'll look for an rsyncable mirror then
[11:19] <dholbach> kamion, mdz: what am i supposed to do with #7888 (workrave) and new g*mm dependencies? am i required to find someone to upload new versions, that get rebuilt?
[11:20] <infinity> dholbach : I was about to tackle mdz about that (since the bug has been assigned to me)...
[11:20] <jdub> Kamion: around?
[11:20] <infinity> dholbach : To use your proposed change, seeds need to change, right?
[11:21] <dholbach> infinity: i can forward you the mail conversation
[11:21] <infinity> dholbach : Which doesn't seem unreasonable, but requires intervention from people who are Not Me.
[11:21] <dholbach> infinity: i already mailed kamion, jdub and mdz about it - but i'm not sure if my input/action is required
[11:22] <infinity> dholbach : If one of them said "yup, we'll fix the seeds", then that should about do it.  I can upload a fixed source package once the libs have moved around appropriately.
[11:23] <dholbach> infinity: you can upload to main? good to know... :-)
[11:26] <mdz> dholbach: I mentioned in the bug that i already uploaded the package
[11:26] <mdz> dholbach: and then i passed the bug to elmo for the archive resync bits
[11:27] <infinity> Oh, see?... I guess I need to wake up and check my mail.
[11:27] <dholbach> mdz: so no further input required from me?
[11:27] <mdz> dholbach: nope, thanks
[11:27] <dholbach> thank you, mdz 
[11:34] <thom> where should kubuntu bugs go? kubuntu-devel@lists?
[11:35] <mdz> thom: bugzilla, QA contact; kubuntu-devel
[11:35] <thom> ok
[11:35] <mdz> thom: unless they want a kubuntu-bugs list, like kernel-bugs
[11:35] <mdz> haggai,amu?
[11:36] <Riddell> mdz: yes please
[11:39] <jdub> Riddell: you want kubuntu-bugs?
[11:39] <thom> mdz: can one not assign a default QA contact to the component? i don't know if i can set QA in the way the livecd hack sets owner
[11:40] <jdub> thom: you can set default QA contact
[11:40] <Riddell> jdub: well I'm happy with using kubuntu-devel but mdz seems not to like that, either is good
[11:42] <jdub> Riddell: it's pretty anti-social ;)
[11:43] <jdub> mdz: http://gnomedesktop.org/node/2199
[11:44] <mdz> thom: a default qa contact can be set on a component, yes
[11:44] <mdz> but I have no convenient way to maintain the list of components
[11:45] <mdz> and editing components when you have thousands of them is painful in the web UI
[11:45] <mdz> jdub: it is not based on ubuntu :-(
[11:45] <thom> right. unf
[11:46] <mdz> thom: one day I will add stuff to bugzilla.py to do it via SQL
[11:46] <mdz> but not today
[11:46] <jdub> mdz: but after the breezy livecd enhancements... :-)
[11:46] <mdz> thom: if the same hack used for livecd can be used, that would be ideal, but somehow I doubt it (since qa contact isn't on the enter_bug form I don't think)
[11:46] <mdz> jdub: what's missing from the hoary infrastructure?
[11:46] <thom> mdz: that's exactly the problem :/
[11:46] <mdz> it sounds like a flavour
[11:47] <jdub> mdz: it could be, but there are still reasons to play with other systems before using casper
[11:47] <mdz> jdub: it sounds like it's based on the new knoppix with unionfs
[11:48] <jdub> just thinking attractiveness over technical requirements
[11:48] <jdub> yeah
[11:48] <jdub> we should have a casper site
[11:48] <jdub> http://planet.livecd.net/
[11:48] <jdub> ^ lame, but it exists
[11:51] <azeem> bah, onlx Linux Live CDs
[11:51] <thom> azeem: what, you mean it doesn't cater to the huge and GROWING hurd live-cd market?
[11:52] <azeem> dude, even Eugenia loves us
[11:52] <jdub> yeah, now there's a growth market and a half
[11:52] <luis> man, I need to get on that planet
[11:52] <luis> I'm feeling so left out
[11:52] <jdub> mandrake goes yearly: http://lwn.net/Articles/128451/
[11:52] <mdz> thom: from zero, there's nowhere to go but up
[11:54] <thom> mdz: *g*
[11:55] <thom> mdz: right, i don't think i can bludgeon this in quite the necessary way :(
[11:56] <jdub> ah, eugenia likes arch now
[11:56] <jdub> which keeps her out of our bugzilla :)
[11:56] <thom> jdub: arch linux? she always did
[11:56] <azeem> I wonder whether she likes the new XFCE file manager
[11:57] <jdub> now she's publically liking it
[11:57] <maswan> mdz: the rsync problem is just that mrinyy has a couple of magnitudes too high load to support it at the momen
[11:57] <jdub> in an osnews kind of way
[11:57] <mdz> Kamion: amd64 dvd install in progress
[11:59] <jdub> haha
[11:59] <jdub> "Saying Ubuntu was 2004 is a bit wrong though, I've never seen such sustained hype over a distro as we've seen with Ubuntu, and Ubuntu looks set to take 2005 by storm as well."
[11:59] <jdub> released in *september* and people think it was "the distro of 2004"
[11:59] <mdz> october ;-)
[12:00] <Burgundavia> jdub: s/people/Eugenia
[12:00] <smurfix> jdub: What's "hype"ish about simply being good? That guy needs to work on his terminology.
[12:00] <jdub> Burgundavia: other than eugenia
[12:00] <azeem> smurfix: EGENDER
[12:00] <jdub> mdz: public knowledge, etc.
[12:01] <smurfix> azeem: OK, OK, s/his/her/g
[12:01] <jdub> smurfix: there's been a lot of hype, user articles, etc.