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[12:21] <Riddell> dates for your diaries people http://dot.kde.org/1111445162/
[12:21] <Riddell> Saturday 27th of August to Sunday 4th of September
[12:22] <Riddell> also akademy call for papers, just incase anyone has anything interesting to talk about
[12:30] <haggai> Riddell: re your kde 3.4 work you said you would do earlier after the website - please update your status when you start stuff, not when you finish.  Amu said he ended up duplicating some of your work before he realised you had done something
[12:30] <haggai> Riddell: also, lets try and assign a bug to ourselves when we start work on it
[12:30] <Riddell> haggai: good plan
[12:31] <haggai> thanks
[12:32] <amu> haggai: ..  in addtion apokryphos will help with bugtracking
[12:35] <Riddell> woo, go apokaway 
[12:36] <amu> haggai: you should tell Riddell about our telefon-meeting ... another thing was, checking the kde-braches commits, meanwhile there are a lot of, some of them will fix our bugs 
[12:36] <Riddell> another good idea
[12:36] <haggai> amu: hey tell him yourself :P
[12:36] <amu> haggai: hahahaah :) you're the boss 
[12:37] <haggai> amu: ok.  as boss I tell you to tell him muahahaaa
[12:37] <haggai> Riddell: I suggested we document how to pull those changes in from the branch so we all do it the same way
[12:38] <amu> haggai: i'll explain apokaway tomorrow about his new job
[12:46] <amu> Kamion: looks like the kubuntu-dvd's need your love
[12:47] <amu> setup of kubuntu.de ; done
[12:47] <Kamion> amu: they needed me to, er, run "crontab ~/cdimage/etc/crontab", d'oh
[12:47] <Kamion> amu: running by hand now
[12:49] <amu> Kamion: i'm also able to run it by hand?
[12:49] <Kamion> amu: no
[12:50] <Kamion> you don't have an account on little ...
[12:50] <amu> Kamion: what's about, define a amu-login which exec the crontab? 
[12:54] <Kamion> amu: you'll have to talk to elmo about that; but is it so hard to go through me or mdz? we cover most timezones between us
[12:55] <haggai> arrgh it seems there are no rsyncable servers that have kubuntu images
[12:55] <elmo> mirnyy's load's almost back under control
[12:56] <elmo> and if it's super urgent you can use auckland.w.h.c, but don't expect that to work for much longer
[12:57] <haggai> @ERROR: max connections (15) reached - try again later
[12:58] <haggai> time to wget overnight I guess
[12:58] <elmo> try mirnyy again? it's load is 1/50th of what it was?
[12:58] <amu> Kamion: if you are all time 24/7/365 up there's no problem, i just think to eastern, ex. sat. 14.00 or sunday afternoon :) 
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[12:58] <haggai> elmo: ah cool mirnyy's working thanks
[01:01] <Kamion> amu: it's rare that one of us isn't around with some fairly small lag - and at the moment I'm leery of too many more people kicking off CD builds, 'cos there's no locking yet and it can get a bit hairy
[01:01] <Kamion> daniels also has access at the moment but that was kind of a temporary thing for an emergency
[01:02] <elmo> err, which is over now right?
[01:02] <mdz> yes
[01:02] <amu> Kamion: sound good
[01:02] <elmo> Kamion: ITYM had ;)
[01:03] <amu> ... i could ask him also ... 
[01:04] <Kamion> elmo: heh :)
[01:05] <Kamion> amu: long-term hopefully derivative distributions will be able to kick off their own CD builds via Launchpad; it's just all a somewhat-privileged operation at the moment
[01:07] <mkedwards> Kamion: privilege issues, or just risk of overloading server?
[01:10] <amu> Kamion: cool, it was a thought, what will happen if there's noone there who could run an isobuild, but sounds good, if we have all time someone available
[01:12] <Kamion> mkedwards: bit of both, not so much overloading as hideous confusion when two people try to run a build for the same project at once
[01:13] <amu> mdz: is there any chance pump the crypto part also into main? 
[01:14] <mkedwards> Kamion: I'd like to be able to build a CD with a slightly modified casper.  I'd be willing to do the poor-man's-remaster of the cloop, but the stuff outside cloop is still kind of mysterious.  It's the cloop that costs resources, yes?
[01:14] <mdz> amu: the crypto part of what?
[01:14] <Kamion> mkedwards: what kind of resources?
[01:14] <amu> mdz: kdepim 
[01:14] <mdz> mkedwards: all you need to do is regenerate Packages and Release after swapping in new udebs
[01:14] <mdz> amu: meaning gnupg2?
[01:15] <Kamion> mkedwards: if you're just modifying casper, it's easiest to drop in a new .deb, hack Packages/Packages.gz, update Release, rm Release.gpg, hope you got it all right
[01:15] <amu> mdz: yep
[01:15] <mkedwards> Kamion: server load
[01:15] <mdz> mkedwards: if you only want to modify casper, there's no need to change the cloop
[01:15] <mdz> amu: if pitti is willing to support it, yes
[01:16] <mkedwards> mdz, Kamion: can I set up debarchiver or something like that to generate Packages and Release?
[01:16] <mkedwards> mdz: cloop changes are to add some packages
[01:16] <mkedwards> mdz: autobuilder / application demo LiveDVD
[01:17] <Kamion> mkedwards: er, as I said server load is pretty irrelevant to what I was talking about
[01:17] <Kamion> mkedwards: absolutely no idea, we do it with debian-cd
[01:18] <Kamion> mkedwards: I'm sure you could, I just can't help you :)
[01:18] <mdz> mkedwards: the simplest way to regenerate them is to use apt-ftparchive
[01:18] <mdz> I can send you the trivial script
[01:18] <amu> mdz: i'll ask him 
[01:18] <mkedwards> mdz: that would be a kindness.  :)
[01:18] <mdz> mkedwards: address?
[01:19] <mkedwards> m.k.edwards@gmail.com
[01:20] <ttf> Riddell: the anti-aliasing issue - would you say it's a kubuntu-defaults or a kdebase bug?
[01:21] <amu> Riddell: haggai: did you saw Klik
[01:21] <mdz> mkedwards: sent.  so after removing the old udebs and replacing them with new ones, running the script should put the CD back into a consistent state
[01:22] <mdz> mkedwards: I think you might need to rm Release.gpg now; I haven't used it since Kamion added support for that
[01:23] <amu> ttf: probably a X bug, X should detect which kind of display is used
[01:26] <amu> mdz: did you saw http://klik.atekon.de/
[01:26] <mdz> amu: no
[01:29] <amu> mdz: something like linspire's 1 click installation 
[01:29] <Kamion> one-click installation is bad crack
[01:29] <mdz> amu: yes, indeed
[01:29] <mdz> Kamion: it's really not; it's on my list for UDU
[01:30] <mdz> Kamion: click on magic file -> launch synaptic and install the (authenticated) package normally
[01:30] <Kamion> well, I hope you intend to reopen things like all the keyboard-chooser bugs :P
[01:30] <Kamion> when we tried to not ask that question
[01:30] <Kamion> oh, you mean one-click .deb installation?
[01:30] <mdz> Kamion: we are talking about two different things
[01:30] <Kamion> ok, totally different :)
[01:30] <Kamion> good :)
[01:31] <amu> Kamion: ;) imho very usefull, ex. for my Dad/Mom 
[01:31] <mvo> amu: I added something to the wiki about the klik stuff
[01:31] <mvo> we can emulate it fairly easily with a script and current synaptic
[01:32] <mvo> but we need to assume a valid sources.list file and a up-to-date cache
[01:32] <amu> mvo: overcool
[01:33] <Kamion> amu: yeah, I think it's a good idea now that I don't think you mean system installation
[01:33] <amu> mvo: should be easy, compare timestamps before installing them
[01:33] <mvo> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PackageManagement
[01:33] <amu> Kamion: nope ;) just deb's
[01:33] <mvo> there is a script for firefox there
[01:35] <mvo> mdz: what goals/ideas do you have exactly for the "install-via-web"? 
[01:35] <mdz> ttf: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8029  ?
[01:36] <mdz> mvo: to be able to use web-based package browsers to select software for installation
[01:36] <mdz> mvo: such as, say, soyuz ;-)
[01:38] <mdz> amu: who is packaging kde-i18n?
[01:39] <mvo> mdz: web-based installs gives us all this nice formating and screenshots and background information data (links to FAQs, homepage, even translated descriptions by default *yummy*). it has great potential :) to what extend to we want to support it? download debs, checks there dependencies and download more of them from the same web-based source? cheat like we can do now with klik? something in between?
[01:39] <mdz> mvo: we can handle it gracefully if the package is not available wit hsources.list
[01:39] <mdz> mvo: I do not think we should download the .debs from the same place, but use the existing sources.list authenticated mechanism
[01:39] <mdz> mvo: (well, not for this feature)
[01:39] <mdz> we have also discussed a metafile which makes it easy to add an entry to sources.list
[01:40] <mdz> but that is a secondary feature; we should focus on access to the software in Ubuntu
[01:40] <amu> mdz: it's on ttf's task
[01:40] <ttf> mdz: is reported on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuPreviewKnownProblems
[01:41] <mvo> mdz: have you seen the script for firefox on the PackageManagment wiki-page? we could add before hoary :)
[01:41] <mvo> (not using klik but klack or something else for the url)
[01:41] <mdz> ttf: there is not enough information in that bug report to do any diagnosis or repair
[01:43] <ttf> mdz: don't know exactly what is meant with it either - thought that somebody (Riddell, amu, etc) put it up there and they would know how to fix what exactly :)
[01:45] <mdz> ttf: please don't file incomplete reports like that; it only creates more work for me
[01:47] <ttf> k - thought it would help people to see that the problem has already been reported
[01:48] <mdz> ttf: it only helps if the bug report actually describes the problem; otherwise it is only noise
[01:56] <ttf> Riddell, amu, haggai: do you know more about the "X colour palette is broken on the live CD" issue on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuPreviewKnownProblems?
[01:57] <ttf> mdz: true
[01:57] <amu> ttf: it's also broken on my brand-new ppc, it looks fine after restarting kdm, we speak about it a week ago 
[01:58] <ttf> ah - remember something
[01:59] <amu> there was a wrong value in the color settings ...
[02:44] <amu> n8 all
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[10:32] <Burgundavia> anybody here?
[10:36] <haggai> yup
[10:38] <Burgundavia> <Burgundavia> asking about kdesu
[10:38] <Burgundavia> <Burgundavia> I am looking to change the deps for qtparted to this by default, instead of gksudo
[10:38] <Burgundavia> <Burgundavia> I fired up kdesu, and it asked for my root password, but accepted mine
[10:38] <Burgundavia> <Burgundavia> has it been hacked to be sudo?
[10:39] <Burgundavia> I asked that just before the netsplit
[10:39] <haggai> ah I didn't see that
[10:39] <Burgundavia> hmm
[10:39] <haggai> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7327
[10:40] <haggai> yes its been hacked to use sudo
[10:40] <Burgundavia> ok, just checking
[10:40] <Burgundavia> so it is safe to change the dep to kdesu? (actually kdebase-bin)
[10:41] <haggai> uuh, kdebase-bin has a gksudo deb?
[10:41] <haggai> dep
[10:41] <Burgundavia> no
[10:41] <Burgundavia> kdebase-bin provides the file kdesu
[10:41] <haggai> ah right
[10:41] <Burgundavia> you running amd64?
[10:41] <haggai> hmm I see
[10:41] <haggai> gksu | kdebase-bin | sux
[10:41] <haggai> well, they are 
[10:42] <haggai> they are |ed together to you don't need to change anything
[10:42] <Burgundavia> am going to cleanup to just kdebase-bin and change .desktop to kdesu from gksudo
[10:42] <haggai> ah yes, that would be better
[10:45] <haggai> hmm might be an idea to actually move qtparted to main too
[10:45] <Burgundavia> is gparted main?
[10:45] <Burgundavia> gparted is currently universe
[11:04] <ttf> somebody has complained that bibletime has got it's K-menu entry in lost+found. the package is in universe. will we fix this and get the package into main for hoary or will it be done only for the next release?
[11:09] <Kamion> it can be fixed without having to migrate to main
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[11:27] <haggai> amu: a fix for you?
[11:27] <haggai> 10:26 < CIA-10> lukas KDE_3_4_BRANCH * kdebase/l10n/tr/entry.desktop:
[11:27] <haggai> 10:26 < CIA-10> Turkey changed its monetary symbol
[11:27] <haggai> amu: better make sure ttf has the branch updates ;)
[11:37] <amu> haggai: heh
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=== Beineri tried openoffice.org-kde today: I simulates the Qt style but doesn't use KDE icons and the KDE file dialog :-|
[12:14] <haggai> Beineri: file bug reports please, both of those problems should not be there
=== Beineri wonders if it only happens to him :-)
[12:15] <haggai> Beineri: no, the first one is probably because the patch was taken from Debian (which is non UTF8 and therefore needs the OOo dialogs), and the icons, well I'm not sure
[12:58] <ttf> there's 3 possibilities to reach "Trash" in an easy way: panel applet, desktop icon and click on "System" icon in the panel and then on Trash - I think this is too much - would remove 1-2
[12:59] <ttf> preferably the panel applet and then the one from the "system" icon (if this is done easy)
[01:03] <amu> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8028
=== haggai subscribed Riddell, amu & ttf to kubuntu-bugs and activated the list
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=== Topic for #kubuntu-devel: Preview Released | http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/ | https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Kubuntu
=== Topic (#kubuntu-devel): set by Riddell at Fri Mar 18 04:36:33 2005
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[02:04] <apokryphos> amu: re: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7880; I wasn't the one that reported that, btw. :)
[02:08] <apokryphos> me = Francis Giannaros
[02:09] <haggai> ttf: that X colour pallete thing, I still see it on current live CD
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[02:20] <ttf> haggai: you mean you also get this bug on a live CD on i386?
[02:20] <haggai> ttf: yes
[02:20] <haggai> I'll make a screenshot
[02:22] <haggai> arrgh, network interface is dead
=== haggai finds bugreport to reopen
[02:25] <ttf> haggai: #8029 - it's still open
[02:26] <haggai> ttf: thanks
[02:26] <haggai> ttf: I was talking about reopening #5228
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[04:12] <elmo> haggai/riddell/amu: kubuntu.org is now working, fwiw
[05:08] <haggai> elmo: ooh thanks!
[07:06] <amu> elmo: ping, could you please move gnupg2 into main, https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8028
[07:08] <elmo> amu: err, seed it?
[07:09] <elmo> and/or make something {build-,}depend on it
[07:16] <amu> thx, {build-,}depend
[07:24] <haggai> Riddell: ping?  how's the website going?
[07:35] <amu> sync
=== haggai syncs himself
[07:38] <amu> hehe, i should definitiv change the window behavioirs 
[08:06] <mdz> what are your plans for all of these kubuntu bugs you are filing?  most of them are not assigned to anyone
[08:17] <haggai> mdz: to fix them? :)  I filed them to make sure they don't get forgotten
[08:17] <mdz> haggai: in my experience, bugs which are filed and not assigned are lost in the swamp
[08:18] <haggai> mdz: my KDE query brings them all up
[08:20] <haggai> mdz: I agree once that gets over more than a page that method might not be so good
[08:26] <amu> haggai: Riddell you know how submit the bugfixes from kde-cvs 3-4-BRANCH ? 
[08:31] <mdz> is someone addressing the "CPU overload" problem with arts?
[08:32] <haggai> mdz: no.  You saw my message about how the installer broke my lvm...  I was trying to do a fresh install to reproduce it
[08:32] <haggai> amu: ? to do what?
[08:37] <Kamion> haggai: lvm10 or lvm2?
[08:41] <Kamion> haggai: never mind, presumably lvm2
[08:43] <elmo> hey, can we not have two versions of lvm in breezy?
[08:44] <Kamion> haggai: actually it would be interesting to know if that was once an lvm10 volume?
[08:45] <Riddell> haggai: website is my target for tonight
[08:45] <Riddell> amu: which bugfixes?
[08:46] <Kamion> lvm2 says that by default it uses the second sector, and it scans the first four looking for the label
[08:49] <mdz> elmo: hmm, good point
[08:49] <mdz> elmo: we shouldn't even have had lvm10 in Warty, after we decided to drop 2.4
[08:50] <mdz> Kamion: fancy a debootstrap change?
[08:50] <elmo> hey, can we not have two versions of lvm in hoary?
[08:50] <elmo> ;-)
[08:50] <mdz> I don't think it costs us much to wait for breezy, but i'm not unopposably against doing it for hoary
[08:51] <Kamion> can lvm2 deal with existing lvm10 volumes? I thought the reason they were able to coexist on the system was that it couldn't
[08:52] <Kamion> and the reason for that cunning lvmiopversion thing
[08:52] <mdz> Kamion: both lvm2 and evms can deal with existing lvm10 volumes
[08:52] <mdz> afaik
[08:52] <mdz> the lvmiopversion thing is due to the differing kernel APIs
[08:59] <amu> Riddell: the KDE_3_4_BRANCH commits into kde-cvs
[09:01] <Riddell> amu: do a cvs diff from 3_4_RELEASE to BRANCH and add the patch to debian/patches
[09:08] <haggai> Kamion: it was once an lvm10 volume
[09:09] <haggai> Riddell: my point for the diffing is to document the commands so we all do it the same way, reproducibly
[09:09] <Riddell> haggai: we should have a script in our baz archive for doing it
[09:09] <haggai> Riddell: yes I think that would be a good idea
[09:10] <Riddell> I should work out how to set up the baz archive first
[09:10] <amu> elmo: E: Couldn't find package gpgsm
[09:10] <elmo> amu: feature, don't worry about it, it'll come in eventually
[09:11] <amu> elmo: ^k
[09:18] <amu> yep that's what i meat, putting the diff's into debian/patches
[09:18] <amu> Riddell: ^^
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[10:24] <lytefyre> anyone know how to boot off external usb hdd , ive got the kubuntu preview
[10:35] <lytefyre> anyone have a pivot_root error while booting ?
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[11:14] <haggai> amu: where is your baz archive with the seeds?
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[11:14] <Kamion> haggai: it's not his archive :)
[11:15] <haggai> Kamion: ah ok so I was looking at the master not a mirror
[11:15] <Kamion> haggai: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[11:15] <haggai> yup, was looking there thanks
[11:15] <Kamion> that is a mirror, but the master is only accessible by sftp to chinstrap
[11:16] <haggai> ah so it was a mirror :)
[11:16] <haggai> how difficult would it be to move it to our kubuntu dev machine?
[11:17] <haggai> I don't mind either way - I can ask amu to pull my changes if that's what folks prefer
[11:18] <Kamion> I guess it's possible; I do think those Ubuntu people who've committed to it so far should be able to continue committing to it
[11:19] <Kamion> merging branches ought to be possible too
[11:19] <haggai> oh I thought that was only amu, haven't been reading the logs
[11:19] <Kamion> no, at least mdz and I have done that too
[11:19] <Kamion> I set it up, both mdz and I have done merges
[11:19] <haggai> ah right makes it not so simple then
[11:19] <Kamion> and I did some germinate admin bits
[11:19] <Kamion> although I could have asked you guys to merge that
[11:20] <amu> haggai: the easier way would be an baz on my buildd
[11:20] <haggai> amu: ? we can use 
[11:21] <haggai> novolazarevskaya
=== haggai wonders where that name came from
[11:22] <Kamion> haggai: Antarctic station (naming scheme)
[11:22] <haggai> Kamion: ah, pity it has such a long name
[11:23] <Kamion> er, yeah :)
[11:23] <haggai> oh, ssh kubuntu.org works :)
[11:23] <Kamion> you know where ~/.ssh/config is, too ;)
[11:23] <haggai> yeah I already did that :)
[11:23] <Kamion> Host novothingy
[11:24] <Kamion>         HostName novolazarevskaya.ubuntu.com
[11:24] <Kamion> ;)
[11:24] <amu> if it runs on novoblah, how it would be possible ex. for kamion to sync them  
[11:25] <elmo> amu: you have a buildd?
[11:25] <Kamion> shrug, I'd either have an account, or it'd be http-accessible from rookery
[11:25] <Kamion> somewhere inside the LAN would certainly be optimal
[11:25] <elmo> kamion: novo's very much not in the LAN
[11:25] <Kamion> oh, it's not? .ubuntu.com fooled me
[11:25] <Kamion> ultimately seeds will live in launchpad, but I wouldn't hold your breath just yet
[11:26] <amu> elmo: a small sized one *g* 
[11:26] <elmo> well, hopefully less soon than ultimately, there'll be a open to all ubunties people style machine where you can run the baz
[11:26] <elmo> until then, I'm happy to create accounts for kamion and whichever other folk might need them on novo
[11:26] <elmo> amu: ok, but you know there's a chroot on novo, right?
[11:29] <elmo> amu: kdepim encrypt pulled in a whole bunch more than just gnupg
[11:30] <elmo> I'm bouncing it back to pitti for review of the new stuff
[11:32] <elmo> haggai: novolazarevskaya means approx. "new miami beach" in russian
[11:32] <Kamion> elmo,amu: ok, how about we coordinate moving the archive tomorrow
[11:32] <elmo> </random>
[11:34] <amu> elmo: no i dont know, started to cluster my buildd, buildspeed is good. 
[11:34] <elmo> heh, unless you have expensive taste, i reckon novo will out build anything you have at home
[11:44] <amu> elmo: gnupg2, if it's too difficult and timeintensive atm, i can easily remove it again. It would be nice, if the kdeusers could also crypt/encrypt their mails. It's just for a better useability. Showing them an FAQ isnt such a good way.