[01:08] <dholbach> 22:00 UTC?
[01:10] <dholbach> fabbione: when did it get re-scheduled?
[08:41] <avdyk> hi
[10:57] <mako> greetings all
[10:57] <dholbach> hey mako 
[10:57] <Kamion> yo
[10:57] <fabbione> yo
[10:57] <Phython> G'day
[10:57] <dholbach> hey everyone else :-)
[10:58] <mdke> hi all
[10:58] <avdyk> hi all
[10:58] <amu> moin 
[10:59] <ogra> yay mako
[10:59] <ogra> amu, moin ?
[10:59] <ogra> *g*
[10:59] <jbailey> moin. =)
[10:59] <T-Bone> moo
[10:59] <ogra> meeh
[10:59] <mako> wow.. this place just came alive :)
[10:59] <mako> yeah..
[10:59] <Kamion> will we have elmo and sabdfl?
[10:59] <amu> ogra: hehe, it's a also short for g'morning *eg* 
[10:59] <jbailey> Kamion: Don't they hunt quails in your part of the world?
[11:00] <mako> unclear.. i know the elmo forgot the moved time
[11:00] <jbailey> mako: The agenda had it wrong as of this morning, anyway.
[11:00] <mako> crap
[11:00] <dholbach> mako: it was set today at 12:00 
[11:00] <mako> jbailey: really.. i must have gone 6 hours in the wrong direction :-/
[11:00] <mako> but yeah.. anywya
[11:00] <mako> i set it in the channel last time though
[11:00] <mako> correctly
[11:01] <dholbach> and we said "motumeeting will be after CC meeting", so we'll have big fun ... all sleeping away :-)
[11:01] <fabbione> mako: topic was changed and NOT restored
[11:01] <dholbach> set it on   wiki/Calendar   :-)
[11:01] <mdz> I don't think sabdfl will be here
[11:01] <mdz> mako: elmo noticed the moved time earlier today
[11:01] <mako> well, we decided to move on a rotating schedule last time.. we've got folks all around the world we're asking to come meet with us during these meetings
[11:02] <mako> so, fabbione suggested trying a shifting time through one or two cycles
[11:02] <dholbach> good idea
[11:02] <mako> which people gave the nod to last time.. that was befre they were asked to get up at 4am :)
[11:02] <dholbach> if everyone knows ;-)
[11:02] <mako> alright.. so we won't have sabdfl
[11:02] <mako> mdz: should i bother to sms?
[11:02] <Kamion> right, I'm not looking forward to the next one ... but it's the night before release candidate so I'll be awake anyway
[11:02] <mako> Kamion: heh :)
[11:03] <fabbione> Kamion: and all the others with you :)
[11:03] <mako> the one after that one is going to be the one taht kills me
[11:03] <mako> well, the next one is semi-alright for me :)
[11:03] <mako> but it goes downhill quickly after that
[11:03] <Kamion> s/release candidates/release/
[11:03] <fabbione> as you can all see.. we can share the pain :)
[11:03] <mdz> mako: can't hurt
[11:03] <mdz> mako: unless you get him in trouble ;-)
[11:03] <mako> ok.. let me sms sabdfl and then we'll move ahead
[11:04] <tseng> oh, its that time again
[11:06] <mako> alright then
[11:06] <mako> smurfix: you around?
[11:07] <mako> alright.. lets move ahead
[11:07] <mako> agenda is at: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[11:07] <mako> smurfix should head things off if he's around
[11:07] <mako> are there any loco folks here?
[11:08] <ogra> i think abelli dropped his team lead
[11:08] <mako> Timo we talked too.. gotta remove him from the list
[11:08] <mako> ogra: yes, i was very involved in that discussion :-/
[11:08] <mako> mdke: cool.. lets come back to that towward the end .. 
[11:08] <ogra> oh, ok...i only saw the last parts with jdub
[11:08] <mdke> yep
[11:08] <mako> mdke: since it's s special issue, not introducing a new loco leader
[11:09] <mdke> cool ty
[11:09] <mako> JooCruz?
[11:09] <mako> LogiotatidisGiorgos?
[11:09] <smurfix> here
[11:09] <mako> smurfix: hola!
[11:09] <smurfix> sorry for being late, got lost in my tax forms :-/
[11:10] <mako> smurfix: any comments on the loco teams leaders on the agenda?
[11:10] <smurfix> mako: one moment
[11:11] <mako> DarthFrog: nice nick :)
[11:11] <DarthFrog> mako: Thanks. :-)
[11:11] <mako> mdke: 
[11:11] <mako> mdke: false alarm
[11:11] <mdke> lol
[11:12] <mako> DarthFrog: we're going over proposed local community leaders
[11:12] <DarthFrog> mako: Thanks for bringing me up to speed.
[11:12] <tseng> heh.
[11:12] <ogra> lol
[11:13] <smurfix> No problem with any of them
[11:13] <mako> smurfix: have you been in contact with all of them?
[11:13] <mdz> except that they aren't here ;-)
[11:13] <mako> ultimately, it's up to smurf.. but we should definitely tell them to drop in and talk the council
[11:13] <mdz> Simira is travelling, I believe
[11:13] <mako> to let us know how things are going in their loco, etc
[11:13] <smurfix> mako: Yep (though not specifically WRT the CC meeting). Also checked the *Team pages
[11:14] <mako> sounds perfect
[11:14] <mako> i've talked to a number of them as well
[11:14] <mdke> canada are starting a pretty well organised team
[11:14] <smurfix> People should know to show up here, it's on the howto page
[11:14] <mdke> they're not on the agenda i noticed
[11:14] <ogra> mdke, next time then
[11:14] <mdke> i'll let em know
[11:14] <mako> great then
[11:15] <mako> i guess we can move on
[11:15] <mako> member candidates
[11:15] <avdyk> talkin' to me?!
[11:15] <mako> we looked at a few of these last night
[11:15] <mako> avdyk: yes! :)
[11:15] <mako> sorry.. last time
[11:15] <mako> avdyk: alright, you're first up
[11:15] <avdyk> yep... but I was not here :(
[11:16] <mako> cool.. well i thin kthe problem last time was that we didn't think the page really spoke for itself
[11:16] <ogra> mako, and Q-Funk wanted to talk to you about his wiki page... did he ?
[11:16] <mdz> mako: MatthewWeaver was already approved last time, was he not?
[11:16] <mako> ogra: definitely
[11:16] <Kamion> didn't we ok avdyk last time round?
[11:16] <jbailey> Kamion: No, you wanted people who weren't present to come to the CC meetin.g
[11:16] <mako> no, we didn't
[11:17] <mako> at least it's not in my notes
[11:17] <mako> avdyk: want to give us the summaery of your work in ubuntu so far?
[11:17] <mako> For The Record :)
[11:17] <avdyk> I didn't do nothing at the moment, I was contacted to make some java synchronisation between debian and ubuntu if I recall
[11:17] <Kamion> jbailey: ah yes, although it wasn't me who said that in Arnaud's case
[11:18] <Kamion> (http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2005-03-08.html)
[11:19] <mako> avdyk: ok.. the policy here is usually to hold off on membership until we've seen substantial contributions
[11:19] <avdyk> mako: I understand that
[11:20] <mako> avdyk: so the java sync stuff sounds killer.. are you working with the motu folks on that?
[11:20] <mako> avdyk: when you think you've got a bit of stuff. try to get a few exisiting members to vouche for you and point to your stuff and it should be uncontroversial :)
[11:20] <avdyk> mako: I'm just trying to have a working kaffe in debian on all arches at the moment :-D
[11:21] <mako> avdyk: awesome :)
[11:21] <avdyk> I also work a lot moving java packages to main (in debian)
[11:21] <mdz> avdyk: jbailey and wasabi are both working on java in Ubuntu
[11:21] <Kamion> jbailey: have you been working with avdyk?
[11:21] <Kamion> or intending to, anyway
[11:22] <jbailey> Kamion: YEs.  Avdyk is the Debian maintainer of most of the Java packages.
[11:22] <jbailey> Kamion: He, Wasabi, man-di and I work in #ubuntu-java on the packages.
[11:22] <jbailey> The idea is to keep sync as much as possible.
[11:23] <mako> avdyk: it sounds like once you get a little more active directly in the ubuntu community, this will be pretty easy :)
[11:23] <ogra> sounds like a reasonable contribution
[11:23] <avdyk> I don't have a lot of time at the moment so I concentrate on kaffe, moving java packages to main and the next step will be to package tomcat5
[11:23] <jbailey> Often the work is discussion around the best way to do things to make sure the packages stay in sync.
[11:23] <avdyk> mako: no problem
[11:23] <mako> alright then.. 
[11:24] <avdyk> I want you to know that I don't wanna have one more email address! ;-)
[11:24] <avdyk> I'm fine with submitting patches first, then we can discuss of a collaboration 
[11:24] <mako> avdyk: sounds great
[11:24] <avdyk> ;-)
[11:24] <mako> avdyk: you think i'm joking? :)
[11:25] <mako> MartinEricRacine ?
[11:25] <ogra> mako, Q-Funk's page seems not to have changed
[11:25] <avdyk> mako: don't know this FQDN ;-)
[11:25] <mako> yes.. :)
[11:25] <ogra> mako, iirc you wanted it a bit more detailed
[11:25] <mako> we talked a bit but i guess he didn't get around to making the changes
[11:25] <mako> ogra: yes
[11:26] <ogra> he didnt do any MOTU work yet either...despite asking questions...
[11:26] <mako> since it doesn't appear to have changed and since he's not here. i'm hesistant to defer another week
[11:26] <mako> alight
[11:26] <Kamion> may as well postpone, doesn't do any harm
[11:26] <mako> not hesitant, that's what i want to do
[11:26] <mako> alright.. hopefully he can talk to me more in the next few weeks
[11:27] <ogra> mako, i pointed him to you several times
[11:27] <Kamion> any contact with Hiweed since last meeting?
[11:27] <mako> no.. IIRC i sent him a mail
[11:27] <mako> haven't heard back
[11:27] <elmo> mako: you have this cute wetware bug where you keep saying the exact opposite of what you mean ;)
[11:27] <ogra> heh
[11:28] <mako> elmo: man.. i know.. luckily it's mostly limited to irc
[11:28] <mako> alright then.. lets move on then
[11:28] <tseng> i seem to recall a hiweed working on a chinese dirivative
[11:29] <tseng> but he doesnt work inside ubuntu yet, afaik
[11:29] <Kamion> Matthew Weaver was already approved as a member last week; until he shows up and wants MOTU, I move that we drop him from the agenda
[11:29] <tseng> only saw him pop up on irc once
[11:29] <mako> yes, absolutely
[11:29] <mako> jorge is doing motu stuff now, right?
[11:29] <ogra> koke !
[11:29] <koke> pong
[11:30] <mako> koke: oi :)
[11:30] <ogra> yeah, and pretty good MOTU stuff :)
[11:30] <Kamion> agenda updated
[11:30] <tseng> jorge was tooling around with beagle, other than that i dont know of anything
[11:30] <dholbach> he rocks!
[11:30] <mako> koke: btw: nice wiki page
[11:30] <tseng> koke++
[11:30] <koke> tseng: that's other jorge
[11:30] <Kamion> who is responsible for updating UbuntuMembers?
[11:30] <Kamion> it hasn't been updated since forever
[11:30] <mdz> Kamion: mako, of course ;-)
[11:30] <tseng> oh you are jorge?
[11:30] <Kamion> and we keep losing track
[11:30] <mako> *shit*
[11:30] <tseng> nm then :)
[11:30] <mako> well.. i have a text file i'll port over to the wiki
[11:31] <Kamion> mako: thanks, that would be good
[11:31] <ogra> Kamion, sivang once said he would take the task
[11:31] <mako> handling membership and signed CoCs has been a bit of a PITA recently
[11:31] <mako> elmo and i worked out a system yesterday
[11:31] <mdz> mako: oh, good
[11:31] <Kamion> it's currently kept in order of joining
[11:31] <mako> that involves a gpg signed file
[11:31] <mako> that i keep up to date
[11:31] <Kamion> ogra: I think it probably needs to be a CC member
[11:31] <mako> i'm happy to just put that in my webspace on rookery
[11:31] <mako> and have that be the canonical(!) location
[11:32] <ogra> so what about koke ?
[11:32] <ogra> yeah
[11:32] <dholbach> YEAH!
[11:32] <mako> Kamion, elmo: ?
[11:32] <tseng> koke++ (again)
[11:32] <Kamion> one sec
[11:32] <elmo> err, one sec for me too
[11:32] <ogra> he helped a LOT in the several transitions
[11:33] <mako> no problem
[11:33] <mdz> koke seems to have been busy
[11:33] <Kamion> oh yeah, I remember him now, koke++
[11:33] <ogra> 16 sponsored uploads
[11:33] <mvo> koke++ too
[11:33] <Kamion> (for member)
[11:33] <mako> Kamion: right
[11:33] <elmo> koke member++
[11:33] <dholbach> koke: 16 already?
[11:33] <mako> koke: congrats dude
[11:34] <koke> 16? age?
[11:34] <mako> welcome on board :)
[11:34] <koke> thanks all! :D
[11:34] <dholbach> koke: sponsored uploads ;-)
[11:34] <mdz> koke: congratulations
[11:34] <ogra> dholbach, thats what my search in hoary-changes says
[11:34] <ogra> yeah, koke congrats !!
[11:34] <mako> JamesAMorrison ?
[11:34] <dholbach> koke: thanks for working with us :-)
[11:34] <Phython> mako: Me
[11:34] <mako> cool
[11:34] <mako> i recieved a signed coc from you today i think
[11:35] <Phython> mako: I sent it yesterday
[11:35] <Phython> You got my key sorted out?
[11:35] <koke> dholbach: I count 14 in my repos
[11:35] <Kamion> Phython: there's not much on your wiki page about stuff done for Ubuntu?
[11:35] <mako> perhaps not yet, but that can wait actually
[11:35] <Kamion> although I know your name from Debian
[11:35] <dholbach> koke: ah... i remember the first one... and again... and again ;-)
[11:35] <koke> mako: I think I sent you about a month ago, can you confirm, please?
[11:36] <Phython> Kamion: no there isn't.  About the most I've done is tried to help pitti understand why drepper was threatening to haunt him
[11:36] <Kamion> heh
[11:36] <mako> koke: yeah dude.. confirmed :)
[11:36] <tseng> mixed up in the glibc cabal eh
[11:36] <Phython> Kamion: I tried doing the release assistant stuff a couple years ago, but couldn't keep up.
[11:36] <tseng> they'll cut you
[11:36] <mako> koke: i think i sent you an email at the time
[11:36] <elmo> The Drepper hits!  The Phython deflects the blow!
[11:36] <Kamion> yeah, I remember (and know the feeling nowadays ...)
[11:37] <Phython> tseng: I've only sent a couple mails towards glibc, most ended quickly
[11:37] <ajmitch__> Phython: more of a gcc hacker then?
[11:37] <pitti> Phython: btw, I now replied with a detailled spec and better explanation, let's see what happens :-)
[11:37] <Phython> ajmitch__: yes
[11:38] <tseng> Phython: good to have you on board, just sounds like not enough of us are familiar with you yet to make judgement call
[11:38] <dholbach> Phython: you wrote retchmail?
[11:38] <tseng> unless someone else steps in :)
[11:38] <Phython> dholbach: No, I maintained it in debian until sfllaw took over the packages
[11:38] <Phython> then things went back by the looks of the bts
[11:38] <mako> retchmail?!
[11:39] <Phython> dholbach: That's on my list of things to do today
[11:39] <dholbach> woohoo
[11:39] <dholbach> and wvstreams4 in ubuntu ;-)
[11:39] <ajmitch__> tseng: enough of us know him though :)
[11:39] <Phython> unforunatly I just noticed treelang is busted if you need to use GC
[11:39] <tseng> ajmitch__: oh, good
[11:39] <mako> i agree with tseng on this
[11:39] <Phython> ogra: That's when I showed up
[11:40] <ogra> yep 
[11:40] <mako> Phython: want to come back in two weeks with a few uploads under your belt?
[11:40] <ogra> i got eagleyes
[11:40] <ogra> ;)
[11:40] <Phython> ogra: Oh, I found someone with gstreamer0.8-faad packages, I need to look at those now
[11:40] <Phython> mako: Sounds like a plan
[11:40] <ogra> great
[11:40] <mako> killer
[11:40] <tseng> yay
[11:40] <mako> moving on then...
[11:40] <mako> MichaelKoch
[11:40] <man-di> mako: thats me
[11:40] <mako> man-di: right
[11:40] <mako> java stuff, eh? :)
[11:41] <jbailey> mako: Same case as avdyk - We all do Java stuff. =)
[11:41] <mdz> man-di: you work on kaffe upstream, right?
[11:41] <man-di> mako: same case as avdyk I asssume
[11:41] <Kamion> ah, another Java cabal member :)
[11:41] <mdz> java in breezy is going to rock ;-)
[11:41] <Phython> jbailey: Did you push everyone into this meeting?
[11:41] <man-di> mdz: I help them with the classlib, orginally I work on GNU classpath upstream
[11:41] <man-di> mdz: and I'm part of GCJ team
[11:42] <jbailey> Phython: I had apparently misunderstood that the work that avdyk and man-di were doing in helping get the java bits together so far would be enough.  My bad.
[11:42] <man-di> currently I try top package newer Eclispe
[11:42] <Kamion> jbailey: I'm sure it could be if it were clear :-)
[11:42] <man-di> damn typos
[11:42] <man-di> currently I try to package newer Eclipse
[11:42] <Kamion> jbailey: it's just not particularly clearly mentioned anywhere, given that the CC members are not people who know about Java
[11:43] <Kamion> walk us through it slowly :)
[11:43] <mdz> jbailey: I think you're the only one here who has worked with them, so we are dependent on you to tell us what they are up to and how they are doing
[11:43] <avdyk> man-di: you  also move some java packages from contrib to main
[11:43] <jbailey> Kamion: Right.  I'm going to work out getting the channel logged, so that we I can at least point to things concretely.
[11:43] <man-di> we want to use joined forces for Java with Ubuntu and Debian
[11:43] <mako> man-di: awesome :)
[11:43] <avdyk> free java!
[11:44] <jbailey> Basically avdyk and man-di are the main movers behind free Java in Debian.  They're working with us so that we can reasonably keep sync between the two distros.
[11:44] <Kamion> jbailey: I'm happy to take your word for it, but just above avdyk himself said he hadn't done much :)
[11:44] <man-di> mako: currently Fedora leads in free Java (in my eyes)
[11:44] <man-di> Ubuntu and Debian together can perhaps change this
[11:44] <jbailey> Kamion: Right, that's why I find myself wishing for channel logs. =)
[11:44] <man-di> we try to create plans and implements to make all work smooth together
[11:44] <mdz> jbailey: what's involved on the Ubuntu side of keeping in sync?
[11:45] <jbailey> mdz: Right now we have a focussed goal on the Ubuntu side of using ecj and gij.  After that we're moving pieces from multiverse into universe similar to the Debian transition of the JAva bits to main.
[11:45] <mako> wow.. sounds great
[11:45] <jbailey> alot of the Debian effort gets held up because of the NEW queue processing time.
[11:45] <mako> i'm very excited about free java
[11:46] <man-di> mako: thx
[11:46] <jbailey> So as we're getting ahead of Debian in a couple areas, we're working on making sure that most of what we do can be fed into Debian sanely to make sync'ing easier.
[11:46] <mako> great
[11:46] <man-di> mako: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
[11:47] <mdz> jbailey: I guess what I'm asking is, what are/will the candidates be doing on the Ubuntu side of things to help with that (as opposed to the Debian side)
[11:48] <mako> mdz: it sounds like all of the work will be done for ubuntu first
[11:48] <mako> mdz: or much of at least
[11:48] <ogra> mako, but hangs in debians NEW queue ?
[11:48] <man-di> mdz: the Ubuntu has a little bit different goals as they are set now, we can help synchronizing packages and targeting the Ubuntu goals
[11:48] <man-di> mdz: e.g. Ubuntu targets on GCJ
[11:48] <jbailey> mdz: Right now, it's been alot of guidance and discussion around the apckaging and resolving problems.  Much of the work may wind up in Ubuntu first because of the faster upload cycle.  Ongoing, if it works out, there will be the group of us actively caring about Ubuntu in Java, although they may primarily care about Debian.
[11:48] <man-di> mdz: DEbian cant
[11:49] <mako> man-di: why not?
[11:49] <mako> (we should probably try to cut this a little short, as it's probably OT for a CC meeting)
[11:49] <mdz> are we consisdering universe maintainer status, or only membership?
[11:49] <tseng> :P
[11:49] <mdz> that should probably be indicated clearly on the agenda in the future
[11:49] <Kamion> I think it's still worthwhile
[11:49] <ogra> membershop
[11:49] <jbailey> membership. 
[11:49] <man-di> mako: e.g. because the needed version is not in Debian yet and Debian wants diversity, Ubuntu wants a clean solution for the user
[11:49] <ogra> ship even
[11:50] <jbailey> If it makes sense for them to do full MOTU, that's something we can work out later.
[11:50] <mdz> oh, ok
[11:50] <azeem> Debian NEW is being processed again, so I don't think that's a big issue
[11:50] <mako> jbailey: yeah, we can bring that up with the motu team and any of the folks on the TB/CC
[11:50] <jbailey> mako: Right.
[11:50] <Kamion> ok, that's a good deal more than we'd heard previously; I'm willing to amend the earlier "wait and see" on avdyk if others agree
[11:51] <jbailey> Kamion: Sorry about that.  I need to figure out the best way to make sure these are presented well.
[11:51] <mako> yeah.. i think we should handle man-di and avdyk similarly here
[11:51] <mdz> if membership is the target, then jbailey's testimonial that they are actively contributing counts for a great deal
[11:51] <mako> jbailey: the best way is to make sure the wiki page has a claer list of the thing that the person has done
[11:51] <mako> alright then
[11:51] <mako> elmo: any objections to deciding on avdyk and man-di based on jbailey's testimony?
[11:52] <elmo> nope
[11:52] <mako> cool
[11:52] <mako> i'm happy with both on jbailey's word and the java stuff that has been done
[11:52] <mako> but i'd like to see more fleshed out wiki pages in the future :)
[11:53] <ogra> and a irc nick on the page would be awesome ;)
[11:53] <man-di> ogra: sorry
[11:53] <ogra> for every wiki page
[11:53] <mdz> a first-hand testimonial is more useful than a verbose wiki page, in my opinion
[11:53] <Kamion> ok then, avdyk and man-di both approved as member, that's the last of the new members
[11:53] <ogra> man-di, not only yours, i'm stumbling across that very often
[11:54] <Kamion> mdz: right, but having the latter means they're less likely to be deferred before we get round to hearing the testimonial :-)
[11:54] <ogra> man-di, its just not specified anywhere ;)
[11:54] <tseng> i think we should make sivangreen the official "template"
[11:54] <mako> ogra: seriously
[11:54] <tseng> for motu hopefuls
[11:55] <mako> tseng: totally, i'll do it
[11:55] <tseng> mako: cool, thanks!
[11:55] <ogra> tseng, hey thats actually a nice name
[11:55] <ogra> tseng, better then wannabes
[11:55] <tseng> yeah.
[11:55] <Kamion> ok. "Ubuntu website remake" is a leftover from last meeting, isn't it?
[11:55] <ogra> lets keep it 
[11:55] <mako> Kamion: um.. it's been added and removed :)
[11:56] <mako> people *are* still brining it u
[11:56] <mako> up
[11:56] <mako> but yes
[11:56] <Kamion> well, it's still an open issue, but it's being acted on isn't it?
[11:56] <mako> but yes
[11:56] <mdz> Henrik is tracking that project
[11:56] <Kamion> so nothing for the CC to do
[11:56] <mdz> it's high priority
[11:56] <mako> mdz: absolutely
[11:56] <Kamion> Vika is working on it too
[11:56] <mako> alright..
[11:57] <mako> any kubunut news/items?
[11:57] <mako> kubuntu
[11:57] <mdz> Riddell: wasn't the preview announcement our "big announcement to the world"?
[11:57] <mako> Riddell: i think so :)
[11:57] <Kamion> that also looks like a leftover from last time
[11:57] <mdz> website seems more or less sorted, except for the registrar delay on kubuntu.org
[11:57] <mako> mdz: that was my comment
[11:57] <Kamion> as is LoCoTeam process
[11:57] <mako> is there anything the CC can do for kubuntu?
[11:57] <elmo> mdz: that's fixed
[11:57] <amu> not now, we're working on the last packages ... 
[11:58] <mako> amu: sounds good
[11:58] <mdz> oh, so it is
[11:58] <mdz> elmo: excellent
[11:58] <mako> yeah.. loco team stuff
[11:58] <mako> ok.. so there was something of a mess with the italian team
[11:58] <mdz> indeed
[11:58] <mako> over the last 3 weeks probably
[11:58] <smurfix> actually it brew under the hood for longer
[11:58] <mako> basically, some people had some issues with leadership and communication and decisioning making within the team
[11:58] <mdz> abelli has been on #u-d nearly every day recently looking for sabdfl
[11:59] <mako> i can try to make it short
[11:59] <mdz> he doesn't seem to be here for the meeting, though?
[11:59] <mako> no.. he's largely disengaged
[11:59] <mako> so someone sent mail to info a few months ago complaining some issues with the loco team and the way it was working
[11:59] <mdke> he is not gonna get back involved i don't think
[11:59] <Kamion> I'd be interested in hearing from other Italian community folks; abelli has been by far the loudest, but loudest isn't always right :)
[11:59] <mako> but asked that nothing be done about it at the time
[12:00] <mako> things kind of simmered i supposed
[12:00] <mdke> i get on pretty well with him and have heard most of his complaints
[12:00] <Kamion> mdke: could you run us briefly through them? another angle would be good
[12:00] <mdke> hmm
[12:01] <mdke> he feels like he was cut out of the group by some people who conspired behind the scenes and went to mako
[12:01] <mdke> several other peopl left the team with him
[12:01] <mako> and he's upset at me for not telling me about the fact that people were upset with him
[12:01] <mdke> mako, yes although mainly with them
[12:01] <mako> andrea and i still exchange email almost daily
[12:01] <Kamion> from what I remember, the people who came to mako said that they had tried to talk to abelli and got nowhere?
[12:02] <smurfix> Unfortunately he then didn't want to meet on IRC with me+mako recently, and dropped his name from the team list
[12:02] <mako> Kamion: well, originally, they jsut said "some people are having problems with the team. don't say anything. we're just going to keep working"
[12:02] <mako> that was 3-4 months ago
[12:02] <mako> more recently, things came more to the surface
[12:03] <Kamion> also, um; were there substantive issues with things that were/weren't being done, or was it purely a "who's in charge" thing?
[12:03] <mako> Kamion: depends on who you ask
[12:03] <Kamion> or a who's telling whom what to do thing
[12:03] <mdke> Kamion, power struggle if i've understood it correctly
[12:03] <mako> basically, everybody involved said that other folks were not really doing any work and only wanted power
[12:03] <smurfix> Kamion: puls leadership style issues, plus ...
[12:03] <mako> which put smurfix and i in a pretty strange position
[12:04] <smurfix> as I said, we tried to get the two sides to talk in the same room, but ...
[12:04] <mako> a whole number of people said "this other person is trying to rule the group in a bad way and they're not doing any real work"