[12:04] <T-Bone> zul: you're welcome :)
[12:05] <zul> heh and i cant spell
[12:06] <T-Bone> yeah. I assumed that was gratuitous as well ;)
[12:07] <Kamion> svenl: ok, mkvmlinuz stuff should automatically appear in debian-installer initrd builds; it doesn't look to me as if any source changes are required
[12:08] <Kamion> svenl: i.e. there's no "SUBARCHES = <whatever>" in our diff against Debian
[12:10] <lamont> note to self: find faster cdrw media
[12:11] <svenl> Kamion: what did you do ? just build chrp ones, or prep, ppcbug and coff too ?
[12:12] <Kamion> svenl: ./powerpc/powerpc.cfg:11:SUBARCHES = chrp prep coff ppcbug
[12:12] <Kamion> same as Debian as of last time we synced
[12:15] <svenl> Kamion: yep, that one was in since months now, maybe even since before christmas.
[12:16] <svenl> Cool.
[12:16] <Kamion> our d-i package is based on 20041227
[12:18] <svenl> Ah, ok.
[12:39] <Kamion> elmo: did my floppy-retriever sync request get lost?
[12:41] <elmo> Kamion: yes, sorry
[12:42] <elmo> done
[12:42] <Kamion> elmo: thanks
[12:43] <seb128> time to sleep
[12:45] <mdke> smurfix, ping
[12:46] <smurfix> mdke: 
[12:46] <mdke> smurfix, hmm
[12:46] <mdke> can't visualise that character
[12:46] <mdke> anyhow
[12:47] <mdke> smurfix, saw your amendment to the wiki
[12:47] <mdke> smurfix, is it a good idea to add suggestions directly there? if so i'll add those brought up during the meeting
[12:49] <smurfix> mdke: For the team name? Best add another section to the end of the LoCoTeamLeader page for that
[12:49] <smurfix> mdke: I don't want to clutter the main text too much
[12:49] <jdub> GOOOOOOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[12:49] <smurfix> mdke: alternately you can create a subpage -- your choice
[12:49] <mdke> smurfix, no i mean where you say "suggestions welcome" for the team leader expression
[12:50] <mdke> morning jdub 
[12:50] <tseng> hi jdub.
[12:50] <smurfix> mdke: s/team name/name of the role the team 'leader' has/
[12:50] <mdke> lol
[12:50] <smurfix> mdke: sure, that's what I meant to say ;-)
[12:50] <mdke> ok separate page it is
[12:51] <Amaranth> jdub: that scares me
[12:51] <smurfix> Amaranth: Get used to it, he does that quite often
[12:51] <mdke> lol
[12:53] <mdke> smurfix, done
[12:57] <smurfix> mdke: thanks
[01:12] <mkedwards> mdz, lamont: According to Ubuntu Traffic #22, the cloop on the LiveCD is made with a variant of advfs.  Will stock advfs work?
[01:13] <Amaranth> hey, does dpkg support upgrading with binary diffs?
[01:14] <mkedwards> And should I be dd'ing /dev/zero to my remastering partition before making a filesystem on it?
[01:16] <zenwhen> wont make much if any difference'
[01:17] <lamont> mkedwards: it's made with create_compressed_fs from clooputils
[01:17] <mkedwards> lamont: is create_compressed_fs smart enough to ignore unallocated blocks in an ext2?
[01:18] <lamont> mkedwards: in the simple case, we say dd if=/dev/zero of=new-${IMGNAME} count=$SZ bs=1M
[01:18] <Kamion> Amaranth: no
[01:18] <Amaranth> :/
[01:18] <lamont> mkedwards: no, but they compress really small when you start with a zero'ed lofs...
[01:18] <lamont> mkedwards: that is, I'd zero the partition if you're actually going to use a disk partition
[01:22] <mjg59> daniels: You are now obliged to love me forever
[01:22] <jani> fabbione a kernel/ipsec related question
[01:22] <mjg59> Argh, must write a UKUUG abstract.
[01:22] <fabbione> jani: i am going to sleep right now...
[01:22] <fabbione> jani: keep it for tomorrow :-)
[01:23] <fabbione> good night everybody
[01:23] <marcin_ant> hi develoeprs
[01:23] <marcin_ant> developers
[01:23] <dholbach> bye fabbione 
[01:23] <marcin_ant> I got a question about cups server on ubuntu
[01:23] <daniels> mjg59: yes
[01:23] <marcin_ant> I just cannot to get this working as print server
[01:24] <marcin_ant> and I would like to ask if this is because I do something wrong
[01:24] <marcin_ant> or maybe
[01:24] <marcin_ant> because cupsys package
[01:24] <marcin_ant> is set by you developers
[01:25] <marcin_ant> that it can work only on localhost and cannot work as real printserver on lan?
[01:25] <mkedwards> lamont: recommended blocksize for create_compressed_fs?
[01:25] <mjg59> daniels: I expect you to buy me beer in .au
[01:26] <daniels> mjg59: sure, but I can't guarantee that I'll spot blondes for you
[01:26] <mjg59> I'll get bob2 to do that
[01:27] <jani> I read in the VPN howto that ipsec-tools > 5 is needed for kernel 2.6.10
[01:27] <jani> we have ipsec-tools 3.3 something as debian
[01:27] <jani> I am not sure of the details just thought I'd mention it
[01:27] <mdz> mkedwards: it's made with the tool in cloop-utils
[01:27] <lamont> we use 65536
[01:27] <mdz> mkedwards: which as far as I know is a stock advfs
[01:28] <mdz> mkedwards: even though it's named "create_compressed_fs" and the source package contains an _entirely different_ tool with the same name
[01:28] <mkedwards> mdz: that's a relief; I thought it was going to need to build the image in memory.
[01:30] <mkedwards> I'll update LiveCDCustomizationHowTo once I have this working smoothly (you want to mount more than /proc in the chroot)
[01:30] <mkedwards> lamont, mdz: thanks very much.
[01:30] <lamont> proc and dev/pts are generally a good idea
[01:31] <mkedwards> lamont: /tmp /dev/shm /dev/pts /proc /sys and maybe /proc/bus/usb
[01:32] <mkedwards> lamont: plus syslogd -a /chroot/dev/log
[01:32] <mkedwards> lamont: especially if you're adding mysql-server.  :)
[01:33] <lamont> heh
[01:33] <mkedwards> lamont: why regenerate filesystem.manifest?
[01:33] <loaofwar3> hi i have a problem with apt-get update
[01:33] <lamont> mkedwards: manifest is there so mdz doesn't have to mount the image to see what's in it...
[01:33] <lamont> that's the only thing it's used for 
[01:33] <loaofwar3> i get an error message every time i try to update
[01:33] <loaofwar3> http://pastebin.com/261555
[01:34] <loaofwar3> even tho i commented out 3 *.nerim. sites
[01:34] <loaofwar3> it still gives errors
[01:35] <lamont> loaofwar3: and you realize that your question really belongs in #ubuntu, right?
[01:36] <loaofwar3> o sorry
[01:36] <loaofwar3> thats a wrong error
[01:36] <loaofwar3> i cant install acroread
[01:36] <loaofwar3> this is what i get
[01:36] <lamont> loaofwar3: --> #ubuntu please
[01:37] <loaofwar3> http://pastebin.com/261561
[01:37] <loaofwar3> i asked someone at ubuntu
[01:37] <loaofwar3> and they told me to ask here
[01:37] <sabmoc> loaofwar3, they are wrong
[01:37] <apokryphos> His question here is about whether acroread still exists... Ubuntu packages suggets that it exists in Multiverse.
[01:38] <lamont> loaofwar3: this would be the correct channel to discuss your _patch_ for the problem
[01:38] <jani> elmo ping
[01:38] <mkedwards> lamont: if you get around to packaging the cloop constructor at some point, I'd like to look at it.  Always nice to be able to regenerate from scratch rather than relying on a base cloop.
[01:38] <mdz> mkedwards: it's cheap to regenerate, and useful as a reference
[01:38] <lamont> loaofwar3: and your problem appears to be nothing more than a broken archive
[01:38] <mdz> mkedwards: same reason we generate .list files for the ISOs
[01:38] <sabmoc> apokryphos, yes, but that but that is not a question about development 
[01:38] <mkedwards> mdz: of course, just wonder if casper used it in some way
[01:38] <lamont> mkedwards: it's on my list of things to discuss with folks...
[01:39] <apokryphos> sabmoc: Ok. Thought it might be the place to ask about possible obsolete packages. My mistake
[01:39] <mkedwards> lamont: would be nice to integrate it with a local mirror so that one can change something, re-run, not have all the package versions change out from under one.
[01:40] <lamont> yeah
[01:43] <mkedwards> weird.  Does blockdev overestimate size?
[01:44] <mkedwards> ieee1394: sbp2: sbp2util_node_write_no_wait failed
[01:44] <mkedwards> :)
[01:52] <mkedwards> Word to the wise: don't dd /dev/zero to a mounted partition.  :(
[01:52] <mkedwards> Boy, am I glad I'm doing this while booted into the livecd.
[01:55] <ogra> night all
[01:56] <mkedwards> lamont: of course, the hazard of distributing a well written custom LiveCD baker is that your archive will get hammered.  :)
[01:56] <lamont> \heh
[02:01] <loaofwar3> what do you mean broken archive? how would i fix that?
[02:02] <mkedwards> gnu cp is amazing.  cp -a works on an entire installed system, device nodes, symlinks, and all.
[02:08] <infinity> mkedwards : Yes, after using 'cp -a' as a lazy man's recovery/backup tool, it's hard to imagine how we lived without.
[02:09] <zenwhen> cp -a for life
[02:11] <zenwhen> I love how easy it is to switch a linux install between drives
[02:13] <LeeJunFan> zenwhen: rsync is even better.
[02:14] <zenwhen> orly
[02:17] <mkedwards> Some piece of my ieee1394 subsystem is not happy.  :(
[02:22] <JanC> zenwhen : C:\>cp -a for life
[02:22] <JanC> cp: cannot stat `for': No such file or directory
[02:22] <JanC> doesn't work  ;-)
[02:22] <infinity> C:\> ?
[02:22] <JanC> :-P
[02:22] <JanC> gnu tools work under windows too  :)
[02:23] <infinity> Yes, but... But.. Why?
[02:23] <JanC> i was doing some stuff with windows-only programs...
[02:23] <helix> infinity: to make work life liveable for some people, I assume
[02:23] <helix> livable?
[02:24] <JanC> 52% ... waiting before i can reboot
[02:31] <wasabi_> lamont, ping.  need another j2sdk1.4 bump, working on some more packages and they are all locked again.
[02:32] <mkedwards> wasabi_: what does that mean?
[02:32] <wasabi_> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/hoary.dep-wait.i386
[02:32] <wasabi_> It means I uploaded a new version of libxalan2, which removes the dependency on j2sdk1.4
[02:33] <wasabi_> But the buildds aren't smart enough to recognize it, so the package won't be built until we beat them with lamont.
[02:33] <mkedwards> wasabi_: xalan2 down? Excellent.
[02:34] <wasabi_> yeah this clears libbsf, bsf, and ant.
[02:37] <mkedwards> That's a very interesting log page.  I presume that none of these are hoary blockers?
[02:37] <mkedwards> (being universe/multiverse, and all)
[02:37] <mkedwards> Is there an explicit release goal for Java in hoary?
[02:39] <wasabi_> no
[02:40] <mkedwards> Sure would be nice if ant were to get in before universe freezes.
[02:40] <wasabi_> Probably will.
[02:40] <wasabi_> Probably will be in before end of the day actually.
[02:41] <mkedwards> Have you looked at mysql-connector-java at all?
[02:41] <wasabi_> No.
[02:44] <mkedwards> tomcat?
[02:44] <wasabi_> that's next.
[02:44] <mkedwards> xerces2 is done?
[02:44] <wasabi_> maybe that's next. ;)
[02:44] <wasabi_> I'm following the dep tree under Eclipse
[02:45] <mkedwards> Eclipse 3.1pre, I assume?
[02:45] <wasabi_> I'm probably going to try hard to get 3.0 up first, since I already have that package done.
[02:47] <mkedwards> OK.  Once ant is in, I'll try mysql-connector-java; that's the one non-Eclipse-dependency I would dearly love to see in hoary's universe.
[02:49] <mkedwards> brb... rumaki-and-sherry break.  :)
[02:50] <dholbach> good night everyone
[03:07] <wasabi_> mdz, requesting multiverse->universe for libxalan2-java (source and binary), libxalan2-java-doc and libbsf-java (source and binary). All previous slaves to j2sdk1.4.
[03:08] <lamont> wasabi_: just 1.4?
[03:08] <wasabi_> Actually now that I put libbsf up also I'm not sure.
[03:08] <wasabi_> checking.
[03:09] <wasabi_> Nope, j2sdk1.3 also
[03:09] <wasabi_> ANd as soon as those get in, I'll be doing another. ;)
[03:10] <lamont> you know, you could upload a bunch and _then_ have me kick it...
[03:10] <lamont> it's not like they could be any more broken than they currently are... :)
[03:10] <wasabi_> Good point.
[03:12] <wasabi_> Breaking ant would be fun anyways.
[03:12] <mdz> wasabi_: please send those requests to elmo
[03:13] <wasabi_> ok
[03:19] <wasabi_> lamont, go ahead and do it, im done for now. =)
[03:21] <lamont> uh... well, did it 10 min ago...
[03:21] <wasabi_> oh. ;)
[03:21] <lamont> do I need to do it again?
[03:21] <wasabi_> nope
[03:39] <mkedwards> lamont: why does the howto suggest dd of=extracted_cd/casper/filesystem.cloop ?  No bs=?
[03:42] <mkedwards> why is sysstat not in main?  iostat seems pretty important.
[03:44] <lamont> mkedwards: bs has a default... not sure - didn't write the howto
[03:44] <mkedwards> I think default bs=512 -- seems to be painfully slow.
[04:01] <mdz> daniels: should we have an fglrx-driver dummy package to provide an upgrade path to xorg-driver-fglrx?
[04:01] <mdz> mkedwards: it's the compression that's slow, not the dd
[04:02] <mkedwards> mdz: 50% iowait, create_compressed
[04:02] <mkedwards> _fs using almost no CPU
[04:03] <mdz> I've never seen that; create_compressed_fs is painfully slow for me no matter where the output goes
[04:04] <mdz> the example uses dd in order to avoid an awkward sudo command-line; it could be changed if it's really a problem
[04:04] <mdz> sudo 'sh -c ... > filesystem.cloop'
[04:04] <mdz> er, sudo sh -c '... > filesystem.cloop'
[04:05] <mkedwards> mdz: I suspected as much, but wasn't sure.
[04:05] <mdz> feel free to edit it
[04:06] <mkedwards> mdz: I will, as soon as I've actually performed a successful remaster.  :)
[04:07] <mkedwards> mdz: I am experiencing a certain amount of ieee1394 unhappiness when mixing heavy read and write traffic.
[04:07] <mdz> mkedwards: that would explain 50% iowait better than dd ;-)
[04:08] <mkedwards> mdz: right now it's over 90% write activity.
[04:09] <mkedwards> mdz: almost nothing going on except create_compressed_fs dumping its image
[04:09] <justdave> wow, was optimizing UI speed one of the big things in gnome 2.10 by any chance?
[04:09] <mkedwards> mdz: (and it does indeed seem to have composed the entire image in memory)
[04:10] <justdave> just picked up the gnome 2.10 update on my Beige G3 and it just feels a lot faster. (the menus just pop up instead of stalling for 5 seconds to load them off the disk :)
[04:10] <mdz> mkedwards: swapping perhaps?
[04:11] <mkedwards> swap's on a separate disk, basically idle
[04:11] <mdz> it's entirely cpu-bound here
[04:12] <mkedwards> mdz: after "Block size 65536, number of blocks 62629."?
[04:13] <mdz> dunno, I only took statistics for the whole process
[04:15] <mkedwards> I think it's the combination of dd with no bs= and the sbp2 driver that's to blame.
[04:18] <daniels> mdz: we tried that, and there was some reason we didn't
[04:18] <daniels> mdz: ah, that was it.  diversions.
[04:18] <mdz> daniels: ugh
[04:18] <aj> heh, "dd with no bs="
[04:18] <daniels> mdz: yeah, it's a mess
[04:19] <daniels> mdz: in an ideal world, they would just provide fglrx_drv.o and fglrx_dri.so and not need to do all this libGL diversion bullshi
[04:19] <daniels> t
[04:19] <mkedwards> aj: that's what I get for following a Howto.  :)
[04:26] <zul> mdz: i should have something for you tomorrow
[04:26] <mdz> zul: great, thanks
[04:28] <zul> but now my wife is calling
[04:28] <zul> so i bid you adieu
[04:30] <lamont> mdz: 8088.  complete boggle.
[04:31] <mdz> SWEET
[04:39] <spiv> The python2.4-samba package is surprisingly large.
[04:40] <lamont> mdz: uh, yeah.  if I can't get any info out of the maintainer by the end of the week, I'll just bump the magic internal version and leave a big fat love letter in changelog.
[04:40] <spiv> And suspiciously contains 8 seperate 1.5MB .so files (that it installs in /usr/lib/python2.4/samba).
[04:58] <|QuaD-> any developers want to tell me where ifolder is, in regards to being available for breezy?
[05:04] <elmo> website's going to become readonly and/or break in 2-3 minutes
[05:04] <elmo> shout now if that's a big problem for you
[05:04] <elmo> www.ubuntulinux.org/www.ubuntu.com that is
[05:50] <infinity> mdz : Would it be seriously out of line to ask for autogen to be synced with Debian?... It's a minor upstream bump (from 5.6.5 to 5.6.6), but it's been festering in Sarge/Sid for almost two months with no bugs, and it fixes the FTBFS on ia64.
[05:51] <infinity> mdz : It's also only depended on by one other package, so not much can go wrong with it.
[05:59] <lamont> infinity: the question is: what else is there in that upstream bump?
[06:00] <lamont> if it's exactly congruent to hoary+ia64 ftbfs fix, then it's almost a nobrainer
[06:00] <lamont> outside of ia64 not being a release goal atm...
[06:00] <lamont> I admit that does still cause me some pain to say...
[06:00] <infinity> Ahh, well if it's not, then I care not.
[06:01] <infinity> The upstream bump is pretty minor, but the ia64 fix isn't terribly easy to isolate.  It looks more like a side-effect of having rewritten a few things.
[06:01] <lamont> oh joy
[06:01] <lamont> those are my favoritest
[06:02] <calc> so who sells ia64 desktops now, or is the ia64 port intended as a server role?
[06:03] <lamont> prolly server
[06:03] <lamont> at the time it was conceived, there were still ia64 desktops
[06:03] <calc> ah ok
[06:03] <lamont> hell, I have 2 of them. :-)
[06:03] <calc> heh
[06:03] <calc> they are collectors items now
[06:03] <lamont> something like that
[06:04] <jbailey> lamont: s/have 2/have all 2/ ?
[06:04] <jbailey> =)
[06:04] <lamont> heh
[06:05] <jbailey> lamont: Are the zx series really considered workstations?
[06:05] <lamont> I think the DC machines are inbetween them as far as perf goes
[06:05] <jbailey> lamont: You bloody need hearing protection to work near them.
[06:05] <lamont> jbailey: well, the zx2600 isn't exactly in a rackable config.
[06:06] <jbailey> Hmm,. right.  mine is the 6000, I think.
[06:06] <calc> i think i'll have to get a mac for my next system, i think i already have nearly the quietest x86 system you can build
[06:07] <mdz> infinity: what depends on it?
[06:08] <mdz> infinity: if you can confirm that it doesn't break it (we've already done our test-build cycle for the release), I don't mind
[06:10] <elmo> mdz: we can probably do another of those for main, btw - and/or update the snapshot I have atm
[06:12] <infinity> mdz : anjuta uses it.  It's a pretty simple thing, though (not anjuta, but autogen)
[06:12] <mdz> infinity: anjuta is in universe
[06:13] <infinity> mdz : I can test it, but if ia64 isn't a goal anyway, I can just as easily not. :)
[06:13] <mdz> it isn't, and it has bigger problems
[06:14] <infinity> Oh, and freefem3d depends on libopts9 from autogen, my bad.  So, it has a whopping TWO packages that depend on it.
[06:15] <infinity> I'm inclined, however, to just drop the bug on the floor with "this will be magically fixed post-Hoary, when we re-sync", and go work on more important things, if ia64 really is that unhappy.
[06:15] <Amaranth> calc: You have a Pentium M system?
[06:16] <calc> Amaranth: my desktop is a athlon64 with 120mm low speed fans
[06:17] <Amaranth> calc: Nice.
[06:17] <Amaranth> calc: Good sturdy case that absorbs sound? :)
[06:17] <calc> yea i have the antec sonata case
[06:18] <calc> i think the loudest part is the oem cooler on the cpu, i used to have a p4 in it with a copper 92mm hsf which was a bit quieter
[06:23] <mdz> Needed for integrated VGA (Unichrome) found on KM400 and K8M800 (my case) family of VIA chipsets. The "via" driver (unichrome.sourceforge.net)
[06:23] <mdz> is included in upstream xorg 6.8.x but it's missing in Hoary.
[06:23] <mdz> daniels: ^^ whaa?
[06:23] <daniels> mdz: bullshit
[06:23] <daniels> to be blunt
[06:23] <mdz> smells like it
[06:23] <daniels> our version of unichrome is far more up to date than 6.8.x, even
[06:23] <mdz> Needed for integrated VGA (Unichrome) found on KM400 and K8M800 (my case) family of VIA chipsets. The "via" driver (unichrome.sourceforge.net)
[06:23] <mdz> is included in upstream xorg 6.8.x but it's missing in Hoary.
[06:23] <mdz> er
[06:23] <daniels> 6.8.x has release 27, we have a bit over 30
[06:23] <mdz> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuPreviewComments#msg20050323034827+0000@https://www.ubuntulinux.org
[06:24] <daniels> ... that url
[06:26] <bob2> mjg59: she was *totally* checking you out
[06:31] <mdz> jbailey: consciousness is recommended for glibc uploads :-)
[06:31] <schweeb> way to exercise restraint
[06:31] <schweeb> :p
[06:32] <jbailey> mdz: Aside from that, the JAva fix is in, the xmms with nvidia fix is in, tzdata update, locales update, pitti's stat fix, and colin's locale fixes are in.
[06:33] <mdz> jbailey: sounds good
[07:25] <mkedwards> iostat output on ieee1394 seems to be out by a factor 8.  Very weird.
[07:27] <mkedwards> mdz: hmm ... probably wasn't too smart of me to settle for pmount's sync mount of this 1394 drive, eh?  :-/
[07:31] <infinity> Does anyone have an opinion about fontconfig printing "Fontconfig error: Cannot load default config file" on initial install when fonts are configured before fontconfig?  (note that it's just a cosmetic issue, as fontconfig will regenerate its own cache when its postinst is run)
[07:32] <daniels> infinity: >/dev/null 2>&1 ?
[07:32] <infinity> daniels : In every font package? :)
[07:32] <daniels> hm.
[07:33] <infinity> Actually, if they all use defoma, maybe I can work around it there...
[07:33] <infinity> It should be defoma calling fc-cache, not the fonts doing it directly.. I hope..
[07:35] <infinity> Ahh, even better, it's fontconfig's defoma config snippet.
[07:35] <infinity> Of course, the question is, do we want to lose those error messages when they ARE meaningful?
[07:40] <mkedwards> mdz: sync mount slowed down the ieee1394 device by a factor of ten.
[07:40] <mkedwards> infinity: | logger -t fontconfig ?
[07:47] <fabbione> morning
[07:52] <infinity> pitti!
[07:52] <pitti> Morning
[07:52] <pitti> infinity: ping
[07:58] <dholbach> good morning
[08:00] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[08:00] <dholbach> hey pitti :-)
[08:04] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:04] <fabbione> mdz: did you test zul fix to your problem?
[08:04] <pitti> Hey fabbione, how are your dildos? SCNR
[08:05] <fabbione> pitti: still there... working on extraction :-)
[08:06] <pitti> fabbione: erm, they are stuck?
[08:06] <dholbach> haha, morning fabbione 
[08:06] <fabbione> pitti: kinda...
[08:07] <fabbione> pitti: what line was the printk() in scsi_ioctl.c?
[08:07] <fabbione> pitti: 121?
[08:08] <pitti> fabbione: 121, yes
[08:08] <fabbione> done
[08:08] <pitti> fabbione: this is really a bit silly (the IDE driver doesn't do this), this should be done upstream as well
[08:08] <pitti> fabbione: thanks
[08:08] <pitti> fabbione: the reporter asked upstream for this, too
[08:08] <fabbione> ok
[08:11] <fabbione> hell if i feel trashed
[08:11] <fabbione> i am not used to sleep so few hours anymore
[08:19] <fabbione> dholbach: i am already at the first half liter
[08:19] <fabbione> but i am getting headacke and that's good
[08:19] <fabbione> usually i work twice as fast with it
[08:19] <fabbione> (due ot the lacking of sleep)
[08:19] <dholbach> headache is good?
[08:21] <dholbach> hey d3vic3!
[08:21] <d3vic3> morning dholbach 
[08:21] <fabbione> hey d3vic3 
[08:21] <fabbione> dholbach: depends from what kind of headacke :)
[08:21] <d3vic3> morning fabbione 
[08:22] <dholbach> hrm
[08:22] <dholbach> dunno
[08:23] <dholbach> d3vic3: i'll compile a priority list for universe today,... or well have a general look, because i'll have to wait for lamonts testbuild to finish
[08:24] <d3vic3> ok 
[08:24] <dholbach> d3vic3: you already saw  UniverseUnmetDeps  and  UniverseDoesNotBuild ?
[08:24] <d3vic3> yes 
[08:25] <dholbach> ok :-)
[08:27] <d3vic3> I don't have a x64 or ppc, only x86 
[08:27] <csj> hello, where can I about about liveCD cusdomize?
[08:27] <csj> s/about/ask
[08:28] <crimsun> this channel's better
[08:28] <csj> thank you, and I extract filesystem.cloop and chroot into remove many packages, and now I want to compress it
[08:29] <csj> but it use iso9660 filesystem, could I compress it as ext3?
[08:29] <csj> I mean use module-builder
[08:29] <csj> module-builder -t ext3
[08:30] <csj> it says: ext3 - slower buildtime, better compression, cowloop-overlayable
[08:31] <csj> it is strange that in chroot eenvironment I df and got about 500 MB
[08:31] <csj> but the filesystem.cloop is 2GB
[08:31] <csj> aren't they the same things?
[08:32] <csj> and I use `create_compressed_fs` to compress the extract_fs I got 500MB filesystem.cloop
[08:33] <csj> compresion ratio is 1:1 :(
[08:34] <csj> and morphix now change its base mod to use ext3 main mod now. I dont know if ubuntu will take this?
[08:37] <pitti> lamont: ping
[08:37] <dholbach> are you all able to log into the wiki?
[08:38] <pitti> dholbach: indeed, this fails (elmo?)
[08:38] <dholbach> *cry*
[08:38] <infinity> elmo brought the wiki down for a bit.  Maybe he's still breaking it. :)
[08:39] <dholbach> my most beloved tool :-)
[08:39] <d3vic3> indeed 
[08:42] <csj> hmm, I found that the compression ratio of  module-builder -t iso9660 is much  better than create_compressed_fs
[08:42] <csj> and reboot to try new liveCD
[08:53] <fabbione> elmo: please kill 2.6.11 from universe
[09:31] <pitti> Hi carlos
[09:32] <carlos> hi
[09:37] <dholbach> hey seb128 
[09:37] <seb128> hi
[09:43] <sabmoc> I dont see an art team on the Teams page of the wiki, but I seem to remember something about an art does. Is there an art team?
[09:44] <dholbach> sabmoc: you could create that page and people could sign up on it
[09:44] <dholbach> (given the wiki-login works again)
[09:44] <dholbach> seb128: can i do a fix-upload of gnome-meta-package? (chucking out nautilus-media and gcompris)
[09:45] <sabmoc> dholbach, maybe Im crazy, but I swear I saw something about an art team somewhere..
[09:45] <dholbach> sabmoc: if you didnt see it anywhere, it's time to make it happen :-)
[09:45] <seb128> dholbach: feel free to fix them, that should be done for a while but nobody seems to care (ie: update to GNOME 2.10)
[09:45] <dholbach> seb128: i don't have the time to adjust all of the dependencies, but it should be installable again -- what say you?
[09:46] <seb128> fixing it is better than nothing
[09:46] <seb128> updating it is even better
[09:46] <dholbach> alright
[09:46] <fabbione> jbailey: ping?
[09:52] <dholbach> hey jani
[09:57] <jani> hey dholbach
[09:59] <crimsun> hi jani.  When you have a few moments, let's go ahead and whip up a list of core XFce 4.2 packages so we can pass it to elmo for syncing.
[10:00] <jani> crimsun ok I'll try now
[10:02] <sabmoc> crimsun, does that mean we are getting xubuntu?
[10:02] <crimsun> sabmoc: not exactly :)
[10:02] <dholbach> oh please... not another *ubuntu :-)
[10:02] <sabmoc> they are poping up everywhere
[10:02] <sabmoc> "try new toastbuntu"
[10:03] <Treenaks> pubuntu?
[10:07] <Amaranth> :/
[10:08] <Amaranth> wiki is busted
[10:17] <jani> these are the sources I got http://sourcecontrol.net/~jmonoses/xf
[10:18] <jani> have to sort out which are core
[10:18] <crimsun> hmm, those are actually binary packages
[10:19] <Amaranth> e17 CVS ;)
[10:19] <crimsun> the libxfce* are required
[10:19] <jani> I have tar.gz dsc and diffs for all of them
[10:19] <torkel> Amaranth: the european version? ;-)
[10:20] <jani> there are this many source packages :(
[10:20] <jani> the libxfce* are there too
[10:20] <Amaranth> torkel: Yeah, it just boots up to a white screen with black text in the middle that says "Sorry, we violate too many patents to release here."
[10:21] <crimsun> jani: as long as we have the source packages for everything listed in the Depends field of meta-xfce4, we should be set
[10:21] <crimsun> that's what I'm working through now
[10:22] <jani> crimsun ok then 
[10:22] <jani> fabbione ping
[10:23] <fabbione> jani: pong
[10:23] <jani> ipsec/kernel question
[10:24] <jani> I read ipsec-tools > 5.0 needed for kernel 2.6 10
[10:24] <jani> we have 3.3 as debian
[10:24] <jani> a minor incompatiblity but maybe bugzilla worthy?
[10:24] <jani> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=145507
[10:24] <jani> read it in theipsec howto
[10:25] <Treenaks> jani: yes!
[10:25] <jani> don't know how problematic it is just thought I mention it 
[10:25] <fabbione> jani: i am raeding.. gimme a sec
[10:25] <jani> also google for ipsec tools kernel 2.6.10 
[10:27] <fabbione> it looks to me that the bugs are related to RH only.
[10:27] <fabbione> due to some kind of borked init script
[10:27] <zyga> hello
[10:27] <zyga> anyone with ppc around
[10:28] <zyga> ?
[10:28] <fabbione> jani: i would check if we have the same problem in debian/ubuntu before opening bugs or whatever
[10:28] <jani> I think the kernel itself introdused a change
[10:28] <jani> the googled links do not mention RH
[10:28] <fabbione> jani: it is still a fix that needs to be done in userland
[10:28] <fabbione> it is not a kernel bug.
[10:28] <fabbione> jani: the first 4 hits i get from your search are 2 RH/Fedora bugs and 2 from kame
[10:29] <jani> not a bug just kernel/usrland playing catch up IMHO
[10:29] <jani> ok I'll look into it sorry for the noise :)
[10:29] <Kamion> elmo: if rookery's mirror could update more often than once a day, it'd be really good (for stuff like my collated installer .pot/.po files)
[10:30] <fabbione> jani: please look at it directly.
[10:30] <fabbione> hey Kamion 
[10:30] <Kamion> morning
[10:31] <fabbione> Kamion: do you have any comment on 7800 ???
[10:31] <fabbione> it can still make it for -30
[10:33] <Kamion> fabbione: seems reasonable. no need for a separate i2o-modules though (and in fact that'd probably be counterproductive)
[10:33] <Kamion> fabbione: could you put them in the same udeb as mpt*, please?
[10:33] <fabbione> Kamion: sure.. do you have any clue of which modules we need exaclty?
[10:33] <Kamion> fabbione: that's scsi-extra-modules on amd64/i386/powerpc, scsi-modules on ia64
[10:35] <Kamion> fabbione: I think i2o_block, i2o_proc, i2o_scsi
[10:35] <fabbione> Kamion: i can add them easily there...
[10:35] <fabbione> ok
[10:35] <Kamion> no need for i2o_config in this context, and i2o_core will get pulled in by module dependencies
[10:35] <Kamion> oh, hm
[10:35] <Kamion> fabbione: actually, I misread I think, add i2o_config too
[10:36] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. we are adding all of them :-)
[10:36] <Kamion> they're not particularly large
[10:36] <fabbione> Kamion: are we sure we don't want them in another udeb?
[10:36] <Kamion> fabbione: yes, sure
[10:36] <fabbione> no i don't really care about the size
[10:36] <fabbione> they are all pretty small
[10:37] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. will do :-)
[10:37] <fabbione> thanks
[10:37] <Kamion> at least for now; all another udeb would achieve would be having to figure out when to get that udeb installed
[10:37] <Kamion> if we run into size problems we can change it later, but scsi-extra-modules or scsi-modules as above should be the right place to start
[10:38] <fabbione> ok
[10:38] <fabbione> what about hppa?
[10:38] <fabbione> it has I2O too, but i don't see any mpt_ drivers around
[10:39] <Kamion> can go in scsi-modules
[10:39] <fabbione> ok
[10:40] <fabbione> i wonder if i should make them optional... hmmm
[10:40] <fabbione> nah let's just ship them
[10:40] <fabbione> MEH let's just be sure they all there
[10:41] <sabmoc> dholbach, but I dont think Im aloud to just 'make' a new team
[10:43] <Kamion> sabmoc: get some people together first, then ask the community council about it when it's up and running and we can bless it
[10:43] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks. all committed for -30
[10:43] <Kamion> cool
[10:45] <sabmoc> Kamion, you are on the community counsil?
[10:45] <Kamion> sabmoc: yes
[10:46] <sabmoc> Kamion, I have another page I would like to ask you about, but I think jdub is already checking into it.
[10:48] <sabmoc> Kamion, I was wondering if the CanadianTeam can be recognized as official, but as I said, jdub said he is checking into it.
[10:49] <jdub> sabmoc: no, i said you needed to make sure the community council confirmed it :)
[10:50] <sabmoc> jdub, oh I thought thats what you were doing 
[10:50] <sabmoc> ok good
[10:52] <sabmoc> jdub, so then do I have to go to a meeting and ask, or can I just email someone. How does that work?
[10:53] <jdub> i don't believe there's a CC mail alias
[10:54] <jdub> put CanadianTeam on the agenda
[10:54] <jdub> it would be best if you went to the meeting
[10:54] <jdub> but if it's on the agenda, it'll be discussed anyway
[10:54] <sabmoc> jdub, ok
[10:55] <Kamion> infinity: #8046> meh, now I have to change debootstrap
[10:55] <sabmoc> jdub, I'll bug jbailey to go, its not like he is busy
[10:56] <zyga> anyone with ppc around?
[11:12] <crimsun> elmo: When you have time, for the XFce 4.2.1.1 sync into universe, please pull the source packages listed at [http://sh.nu/~crimsun/list.sources]  from [deb-src http://www.os-works.com/debian/ testing main] .  The source packages are at the former URL are dependency-ordered, so packages A..B listed above any other package C will satisfy package C's build-dep.
[11:12] <sabmoc> Is the next community council meeting today, or was it yesterday?
[11:12] <crimsun> sabmoc: yesterday
[11:12] <dholbach> sabdfl: yesterday wiki/Calendar
[11:12] <sabmoc> omg
[11:13] <sabmoc> oh well
[11:13] <Kamion> next one's in three weeks' time
[11:13] <crimsun> thanks, jani :)
[11:13] <Kamion> would be two weeks but that collides with the hoary release
[11:13] <jani> crimsun , thank _you_
[11:14] <jani> I mostly just watched what you did :)
[11:15] <sabmoc> thats just really disapointing, im so stupid
[11:18] <dholbach> see you later
[11:19] <Kamion> sabmoc: nothing stopping you getting people together in the meantime; in fact that's actively preferred
[11:19] <Kamion> sabmoc: also, please talk to smurfix, if you haven't already; he's the local teams coordinator
[11:21] <sabmoc> Kamion, I have talked to him. The problem is that the team has no way to communicate. We need a mailing list or a forum. 
[11:22] <sabmoc> But its ok, three weeks isnt so long to wait, but we have 10 members after 3 days, I dont know what it will be in 3 weeks.
[11:23] <jani> elmo, when you have time please add me to uploader privs (mako got the papers and sent me to you). key id is for Jani Monoses thanks
[11:24] <jani> for MOTU only of course :)
[11:25] <Kamion> sabmoc: maybe some kind of extraordinary meeting after next week's TB meeting would make sense, dunno
[11:29] <lupusBE> is it normal that eog is version 2.9?
[11:31] <Keybuk> yeah, there was no 2.10 release
[11:47] <fabbione> elmo: ping?
[11:47] <fabbione> elmo: for some reason gconmm2.6 on sparc landed in universe, while it is in main for all the other arches. Mind to move it?
[11:49] <fabbione> gconfmm2.6 i mean
[11:49] <fabbione> (or is it just sparc.u.c out of sync?)
[11:50] <fabbione> the latter
[11:50] <fabbione> 4 -r--r--r--  1 root root    1 2005-03-21 18:14 Archive-Update-in-Progress-mirnyy.ubuntu.com
[11:59] <Kamion> jdub: how come CC approval is a prerequisite for a mailing list? for CC approval, we want the group to already be talking to each other and functioning as a proto-team
[11:59] <Kamion> seems like a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation at the moment
[12:00] <jdub> Kamion: it's not
[12:01] <Kamion> jdub: sabmoc is under the impression that it is
[12:02] <Kamion> ok, sorted then :)
[12:02] <sabmoc> infact I just sent jdub an email saying just that.
[12:02] <Kamion> good good
[12:02] <sabmoc> Kamion, jdub sorry for the mix up
[12:03] <sabmoc> I thought it was sorted too, but the other way
[12:04] <sabmoc> jdub remember, I thought you were going to ask the CC about it, apparently the whole thing is a shambles. I've got it now though.
[12:08] <pitti> dholbach: you are crazy, dude
[12:11] <jbailey> fabbione: Here
[12:12] <pitti> Hey jbailey 
[12:12] <pitti> jbailey: morning :-)
[12:12] <pitti> libc time?
[12:13] <jbailey> pitti: moin
[12:13] <jbailey> pitti: 1440 time, although a bit of libc while I'm waiting for answers and stuff.
[12:13] <jbailey> The joys of 40 minute compiles. =)
[12:15] <pitti> jbailey: it takes about three hours on my computer :-)
[12:18] <mantiena> hi all
[12:21] <sabmoc> jbailey, howdy
[12:22] <mantiena> mdz: alive ?
[12:23] <mvo> mantiena: probably sleeping
[12:23] <jbailey> Heya sabmoc|slp 
[12:23] <mantiena> mdz: good sleep then :)
[12:25] <mantiena> mvo: have you got my question about .deb installation in ubuntu at monday ?
[12:26] <mvo> mantiena: installing .deb is a bit tricky as apt-get does not support them directly (without a packages file). see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=47379
[12:26] <mvo> mantiena: that means that we won't have dependency resolution 
[12:31] <mantien1> AFAIK in ubuntu simply clicking on .deb file in file manager does nothing, I'm right?
[12:35] <torkel> mantien1: they are opened in file-roller for me
[12:36] <mantien1> torkel: yea, I forgot, that file-roller since 2.9.x supports deb ;)
[12:39] <Kamion> elmo,thom: uh, in fact the mirror on rookery hasn't been updated in a couple of days; could you have a look at it and see what's broken?
[12:40] <fabbione> jbailey: i did send you the info via email
[12:41] <thom> i *really* hope this fix continues to work when i build firefox without debug
[12:44] <jbailey> fabbione: Are the previous build logs stored somewhere for that arch?  The only change was moving it to use gcc-3.4 from 3.3.
[12:46] <fabbione> jbailey: i did check the one on buildd.d.o
[12:46] <fabbione> i don't have old logs.. sorry
[12:46] <fabbione> but if you really really need them i can grab the sources from the morgue
[12:46] <mantien1> mvo: there is simple workaround for dependancy resolution: apt-get -f install :)
[12:47] <mantien1> mvo: do you know gdeb tool ?
[12:47] <seb128> pitti: any idea if #7981 is a nautilus issue or not ?
[12:47] <mvo> mantien1: what happens when the deb file has broken dependencies?
[12:48] <jbailey> fabbione: For all that, just comment the one line in the rules file CC=gcc-3.4 out.  Sorry I can't just do it myself, my sparc died almost a year ago, and I'm not getting another one for a couple of months.
[12:48] <fabbione> jbailey: ok.. don't worry.. i will let you know in a few minutes :-)
[12:48] <mvo> mantien1: I know gdeb and I think we need native apt-get support for debs. everything else is too hackish IMO
[12:48] <pitti> seb128: uh, that's ugly
[12:48] <pitti> seb128: actually this sounds more like a kernel issue
[12:49] <pitti> seb128: r/w mount shouldn't be possible with a write-protected stick
[12:49] <seb128> right
[12:49] <mantien1> mvo: I also think, that native apt-get support for debs would be the best solution, but it seems this solution won't be implemented until 2010 :(
[12:49] <seb128> should I reassign ? or rather ping to know if he has the issue from the command line too ?
[12:50] <Keybuk> hmm, why isn't the update icon going away now I've updated?
[12:50] <Keybuk> because I haven't updated
[12:50] <robtaylor_> hmm, just found a src diff.gz that has an md5sum mismatch in universe.. 
[12:50] <mantien1> mvo: problem is, that ubuntu and debian users don't have an ability to install .deb package without using not intuitive command line tools :(
[12:51] <robtaylor_> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/e/encompass/encompass_0.5.99.3-4.diff.gz if anyone is interested
[12:51] <dholbach> robtaylor_: please join #ubuntu-motu and tell us there
[12:51] <mvo> mantien1: I hope we can sort the local install stuff out for breezy 
[12:51] <mantien1> mvo: some commercial software makers are providing .deb packages, look for example here http://www.skype.com/products/skype/linux/
[12:52] <mantien1> but majority of simple desktop users (not linux profesionals) don't know how to install software from .deb packages, because there are no simple way :(
[12:53] <robtaylor_> dholbach: thanks
[12:53] <mvo> mantien1: gdeb is in universe, I don't really think we can do a lot here for hoary (it's way to close before the release)
[12:53] <mvo> mantien1: don't get me wrong, I would love to have a easy-to-use install for deb files
[12:53] <mantien1> mvo: I know that now is a little bit to late ;)
[12:54] <mantien1> in reality there are so many usability bugs, that I don't have a time to report these, not talking about fixing :(
[12:55] <mvo> mantien1: you talk about general usability bugs? or package-managment specific ones?
[12:56] <mantien1> mvo: both :)
[12:56] <mantien1> gdeb can't be included as workaround for user-friendly installation of local debs in hoary ? 
[12:58] <mvo> mantien1: sorry, it's really too late for that. even if I would think otherwise, the release-managers wouldn't allow it into main at this stage
[01:00] <mantien1> mvo: hehe, I found simple solution ;)
[01:02] <pitti> seb128: the result of the "mount" command (look for "ro") would be interesting
[01:02] <mantien1> mvo: ubuntu packages from main can suggest packages from universe ?
[01:02] <pitti> seb128: if mount shows r/w and open-for-write calls are dropped silently, then this is a kernel issue
[01:02] <pitti> mantien1: yes
[01:03] <pitti> mantien1: just not recommend
[01:03] <seb128> pitti: k, thanks
[01:04] <mantien1> pitti: thanks for info
[01:05] <mantien1> mvo: so, what you think about adding gdeb package to suggest field of synaptic ?
[01:06] <mantien1> mvo: until apt-get will be able to install local debs
[01:06] <pitti> dpkg -i ?
[01:07] <fabbione> jbailey: it builds fine with gcc-3.3
[01:07] <mantien1> pitti: ?
[01:07] <mvo> mantien1: it would be a option, but I'm not really in favour of it. we could just document it in the wiki and be done with it
[01:07] <zul> mdz: http://zulinux.homelinux.net/ubuntu/kernel/snd-via82xx.ko   bbl
[01:07] <fabbione> hey zul
[01:07] <pitti> mantien1: I mean what does gdb differently, compared to dpkg -i foo.deb?
[01:07] <jbailey> fabbione: Nasty.  I'll look it up to see if it's known errata for sparc gcc then on 3.4
[01:07] <fabbione> jbailey: thanks!
[01:08] <zul> hey fabbione, thats the patched snd module for mdz...bbl must head off to work
[01:08] <mantien1> pitti: gdeb does in user-friendly way, without reading documentation :)
[01:08] <fabbione> zul: ttyl
[01:11] <mantien1> mvo: btw, it seems bug http://bugs.debian.org/271904 isn't fixed in ubuntu, I'm right ?
[01:12] <mvo> mantien1: possible, I haven't really looked much into gdeb
[01:13] <Burgundavia> mantien1: it is not
[01:13] <Burgundavia> mantien1: the motu team is working on getting .desktop is various things
[01:13] <Burgundavia> mantien1: join us at #ubuntu-motu
[01:14] <mantien1> Burgundavia: thanks
[01:15] <zyga> anyone with ppc around?
[01:16] <Kamion> zyga: what for?
[01:16] <zyga> pitti: really?
[01:16] <pitti> zyga: yeah
[01:16] <thom> i have ppc
[01:16] <zyga> great ;-0
[01:16] <zyga> soon I'll need to run some small tests
[01:17] <zyga> to make sure that big endian stuff works too
[01:17] <pitti> zyga: don't tell me you already rewrote libintl :-)
[01:17] <zyga> not fully yet but soon
[01:17] <zyga> tonight I'll be done
[01:17] <pitti> you rock :)
[01:17] <zyga> spring looks so great :-)
[01:18] <zyga> I'm energized to code fast; >
[01:18] <mantien1> mvo: what you think about adding gdeb package to suggest/recommend field of synaptic in *debian* sarge/sid ?
[01:20] <mvo> mantien1: I still think that gdeb is not the right approach for the problem, but I agree that there is a need for something like it
[01:21] <mantien1> mvo: I don't know better solution for now, maybe you know ?
[01:22] <Burgundavia> mantien1: ideally, the user should never have to download stuff of the internet
[01:22] <Burgundavia> that is very unsafe
[01:23] <Burgundavia> if you train your users never to do that, then malware might not spread as fast
[01:23] <mantien1> Burgundavia: yes, i know this, but in reality there are no other way for example to install skype
[01:23] <Burgundavia> along with installing from the webbrowser
[01:24] <Burgundavia> hmm
[01:24] <mantien1> Burgundavia: ideally the user should never use closed source, but reality is different :(
[01:25] <fabbione> thom: is the rsync script running again for sparc.u.c?
[01:25] <Burgundavia> yes, I see that
[01:26] <mantien1> Burgundavia: in any case problem is not in downloading software from internet
[01:26] <Burgundavia> well, yes it is
[01:26] <Burgundavia> how else is the deb going to appear on their machine?
[01:27] <Burgundavia> if they can compile from source, they can install by cli
[01:27] <mantien1> Burgundavia: there are lots of ways
[01:27] <Burgundavia> how?
[01:27] <mantien1> Burgundavia: for example by copying from usb-stick
[01:27] <Burgundavia> or a cd?
[01:27] <mantien1> ;)
[01:28] <Burgundavia> if it can be redistributed by cd, then almost always it can go in a repo
[01:30] <Burgundavia> I just don't see a good use case for gdeb
[01:30] <mantien1> Burgundavia: try to support at least 10 linux desktop users, who used only windows before and then you understand usability problems ;)
[01:30] <Burgundavia> I do
[01:30] <mantien1> Burgundavia: I told you one use case 10 minutes ago
[01:30] <zyga> mantien1: you are very right 
[01:31] <Burgundavia> downloading software off the internet is a bad thing
[01:31] <zyga> Burgundavia: why?
[01:31] <Burgundavia> if it comes on a cd, an installer can be included
[01:31] <Burgundavia> zyga: security
[01:31] <Burgundavia> zyga: do you trust the internet?
[01:31] <Burgundavia> bad usablity
[01:31] <zyga> Burgundavia: I trust distros and their keys
[01:32] <Burgundavia> but that is not the wild internet
[01:32] <zyga> Burgundavia: if you ment downloading from random sources
[01:32] <zyga> Burgundavia: then I fully agree
[01:32] <Kamion> but distributions with keys can produce signed repositories
[01:32] <Burgundavia> windows style
[01:32] <Burgundavia> yes
[01:32] <Kamion> there is currently no infrastructure for individual signed .debs
[01:32] <mantien1> Burgundavia: :-P
[01:32] <Kamion> so any .deb you download on its own is totally untrusted
[01:33] <zyga> Kamion: anyone can sign anything and publish their keys
[01:33] <Kamion> I know I've explained this to mantien1 before, but he doesn't seem to care about security
[01:33] <mantien1> Kamion: I care
[01:33] <Burgundavia> zyga: too much infrastructure not in place
[01:33] <Kamion> zyga: sure; but nothing knows how to process signatures on individual .debs, only on Release files
[01:33] <zyga> Burgundavia: yes, but it's possible (not automated but possible)
[01:33] <Burgundavia> I understand your point mantien1
[01:33] <fabbione> pitti: ?
[01:33] <Burgundavia> zyga: I didn't say it wouldn't be, just that is isn't
[01:33] <pitti> fabbione: yeah?
[01:34] <Burgundavia> Kamion: I am glad someone agrees with me
[01:34] <zyga> I don't know about internal deb workings but I'm pretty sure it can be signed as soon as tools are patched to support that
[01:34] <fabbione> pitti: gibb0r m3 4 c0up73 0f C4N'5 numz...
[01:34] <Burgundavia> Kamion: I have been doing a lot of thinking about software and installing, security wise
[01:34] <pitti> fabbione: I already gave you all my crack
[01:34] <Kamion> zyga: there were extensive discussions about this on debian-devel a couple of years ago; might want to go back and read the archives
[01:34] <mantien1> Kamion: problem with installing from .deb packages is not for me - it's for thousands simple desktop users
[01:34] <fabbione> pitti: gimme more :-)
[01:34] <Burgundavia> and came to the conclusion that a lot of problems would be solved if users never downloaded off the internet
[01:34] <Kamion> mantien1: so create a repository for them to use
[01:35] <Kamion> mantien1: it will take about ten seconds
[01:35] <pitti> fabbione: you must learn to take care of your playdolls and don't use them all up on the first day :)
[01:35] <fabbione> pitti: ahahaha
[01:35] <Kamion> and you'll be able to sign it, and the problems will go away
[01:35] <mantien1> Kamion: some commercial software makers are providing .deb packages without repositories, look for example here http://www.skype.com/products/skype/linux/
[01:35] <Burgundavia> mantien1: that is their issue, not ours
[01:35] <pitti> fabbione: since I didn't give you vulns today, will you not hate me today? *blink*
[01:36] <Kamion> mantien1: (a) what Burgundavia said, (b) if you have users to support who need skype, take a local copy of it and put it in a proper repository
[01:36] <mantien1> Kamion: I can't teach *all* commercial vendors, but I can make software more user-friendly
[01:36] <Kamion> mantien1: or encourage skype to create a repository
[01:36] <Burgundavia> mantien1: but at what expense?
[01:36] <fabbione> pitti: i always love you
[01:37] <pitti> "Dobby loves you"
[01:37] <Kamion> mantien1: in the long run, encouraging people to use unsigned software is not user-friendly, even though it might look that way on the surface
[01:37] <Micksa> cd
[01:37] <Micksa> ack
[01:37] <Kamion> not everything with a GUI is user-friendly :)
[01:37] <zyga> Burgundavia: signing alone does not provide security
[01:37] <mantien1> if someone wants to find 10 reasons why don't make theyr software user friendly, then he finds
[01:37] <Burgundavia> zyga: it helps
[01:37] <Kamion> zyga: it's a necessary condition, even if not a sufficient one
[01:37] <zyga> Burgundavia: you must be able to identify the signer and be sure you trust him/her
[01:37] <Burgundavia> mantien1: user friendly also includes secure
[01:37] <zyga> Kamion: yes it is
[01:38] <zyga> Kamion: but look at all those 'signed and safe' activex crap 
[01:38] <Kamion> zyga: sure
[01:38] <Burgundavia> if you have no security, it doesn't matter how nice it is to use
[01:38] <Kamion> zyga: like I say, it's not a sufficient condition
[01:38] <Burgundavia> malware will bring you to a screeching halt very quickly
[01:39] <mantien1> in any case I just want to make ubuntu more user-friendly, if ubuntu developers don't want this it's up to them 
[01:39] <zyga> Burgundavia: the only way to stop signed malware is to get trusted external programs signed by more than one group
[01:39] <Burgundavia> zyga: and to make users really think before installing anything
[01:39] <Kamion> mantien1: you are taking what people are telling you and reducing it to trivialities in an unfair way
[01:39] <zyga> Burgundavia: that is simply not possible
[01:39] <Burgundavia> zyga: and to make them think, provide a seperate program, not a webbrowser
[01:40] <Burgundavia> so they get into the thinking that a webbrowser is for browsing, not for installing
[01:40] <Kamion> mantien1: other people are trying to think about user-friendliness in ways that go beyond "wrap GUI around command-line tool"
[01:40] <zyga> Burgundavia: people are not only afraid of computers, they are totally clueless
[01:40] <zyga> Burgundavia: hey there are such tools
[01:40] <Burgundavia> zyga: I have done windows helpdesking, so I have seen this a lot
[01:40] <Burgundavia> zyga: exactly
[01:40] <zyga> Burgundavia: fedora had this nice program (bound to .rpm by default)
[01:41] <zyga> Burgundavia: not only does it allow you to do a one click instaqll
[01:41] <Burgundavia> gdeb is part of the download stuff with the webbrowser chain
[01:41] <zyga> Burgundavia: it also tells you that it's not signed and such
[01:41] <zyga> Burgundavia: gdeb? 
[01:41] <mantien1> Kamion: if there are no other solution then "wrap GUI around command-line tool" is better solution than nothing
[01:41] <Burgundavia> graphical installer for local debs
[01:41] <zyga> Burgundavia: but it's stand alone - right?
[01:41] <Burgundavia> yes
[01:41] <Kamion> mantien1: I disagree.
[01:41] <Burgundavia> but the debs have to get to the computer somehow
[01:42] <Kamion> mantien1: I think that would do more harm than good.
[01:42] <Burgundavia> mantien1: I would disagree as well
[01:42] <zyga> Burgundavia: then give it a whitelist of keys, online update and nice big red exclamation mark telling that something is not secure
[01:42] <Burgundavia> zyga: users don't read error messages
[01:42] <Kamion> I absolutely do not ever want to see "click on this .deb to automatically install it on your Ubuntu system" (oh, by the way, no security) on a web site
[01:42] <zyga> Burgundavia: then make them - see firefox XPI install window
[01:42] <Burgundavia> zyga: that is part of the issue
[01:43] <Kamion> zyga: we already have whitelist, online update, big red exclamation mark for repositories
[01:43] <Burgundavia> we have trained users to ignore error messages
[01:43] <Burgundavia> so we need to rethink
[01:44] <zyga> Kamion: then you've done all you could
[01:44] <Burgundavia> zyga: that is not enough
[01:44] <zyga> Kamion: unless you want to make 'dummy' accounts by default
[01:44] <zyga> that need assistance from professional personel to do anything 
[01:44] <zyga> Kamion: but that eliminates 99% of average joes and their malware-crippled windos boxes
[01:45] <Burgundavia> we can let users install their own stuff, but in the safe confines of something like gnome-app-install
[01:45] <mantien1> Kamion: I think we can find more productive subject to talk about
[01:45] <zyga> Burgundavia: safe confines - chroot app install with vm like vmware ;] 
[01:45] <zyga> Burgundavia: if this app screws something up - to hell with it
[01:46] <zyga> but that's a few years away...
[01:46] <zyga> ok back to coding :-)
[01:46] <Burgundavia> hmm
[01:47] <jdub> Amaranth: around?
[01:47] <Amaranth> jdub: Yeah.
[01:48] <Amaranth> jdub: What's up?
[01:48] <jdub>        Module: gnome-menus
[01:48] <jdub>       Version: 2.10.1
[01:48] <jdub>         * Make user desktop entries override system ones (Mark)
[01:48] <jdub> :-)
[01:49] <ogra> jdub, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=300962
[01:49] <ogra> ;)
[01:49] <Amaranth> jdub: lmao, i already hacked around it and got a bug fixed to make the hack around work with python-xdg
[01:49] <Amaranth> This whole thing has been one brick wall to another.
[01:50] <jdub> ogra: ;-)
[01:50] <Amaranth> jdub: Thanks though. ;)
[01:53] <Amaranth> wow, xscreensaver doens't look like ass anymore
[01:53] <Amaranth> i guess i never noticed. :P
[01:57] <Kamion> wow, it worked
[01:58] <fabbione> Kamion: EH?
[01:58] <fabbione> does that mean another full installer translation?
[01:58] <fabbione> s/translation/upload/
[01:58] <Kamion> no, it means importing iso-codes translations into choose-mirror :)
[01:59] <fabbione> ah ok
[01:59] <Kamion> but there are quite a spectacular number of strings there
[01:59] <Kamion> s/are/is/
[02:00] <fabbione> i can see :-)
[02:05] <fabbione> YAY the i2o addition was perfect at the first shot
[02:07] <Kamion> -rw-r--r--  1 cjwatson cjwatson 449054 2005-03-23 13:04 debian/choose-mirror/DEBIAN/templates
[02:07] <Kamion> wow
[02:08] <dholbach> is the wiki back on track?
[02:08] <elmo> dholbach: yes
[02:08] <dholbach> elmo: YOU! ROCK! :-)
[02:08] <fabbione> Kamion: eheheh
[02:08] <fabbione> elmo: did you read the scrollback in here?
[02:11] <elmo> fabbione: meh, just am
[02:11] <elmo> there's far too much in here for me
[02:11] <fabbione> elmo: sure.. take your time
[02:11] <elmo> fabbione: sparc.u.c is down ATM, in terms of updating, I need to relocate it
[02:12] <fabbione> elmo: ok. Kamion was also mentioning the mirror on roockery
[02:12] <elmo> yes, same problem
[02:12] <fabbione> ah ok
[02:12] <elmo> mirnyy's load problems were due in no small part to the 30min write-fests that are cron.daily pulses
[02:12] <elmo> so mirnyy's becoming a cdimage only mirror
[02:13] <fabbione> make sense.. we all trust your judgement :-)
[02:13] <fabbione> i will work around it while you fix it
[02:13] <fabbione> s/fix/move
[02:15] <elmo> fabbione: confirm you want 2.6.11 killed?
[02:15] <mjg59> jdub: I've just been hit by the realisation that I could take in a trip to Cockfosters on my way to Sydney
[02:15] <fabbione> elmo: yes.
[02:15] <jdub> mjg59: COCKFOSTERS!
[02:15] <Kamion> elmo: anywhere I could reasonably move the installer translation files generation in the meantime?
[02:15] <Kamion> I suppose I could run it at home or something
[02:16] <elmo> Kamion: I'm syncing rookery now
[02:16] <fabbione> elmo: do you think it will possible to allow just one pulse to sync sparc.u.c and move it later? there are some packages that i upload that are not there and i need them as Build-Dep for other stuff 
[02:16] <Kamion> elmo: ah, ok, thanks
[02:16] <elmo> hmm, no I'm not.  meh.  stupid rsync limits.  one sec.
[02:16] <elmo> fabbione: ok
[02:16] <fabbione> elmo
[02:16] <fabbione> elmo: thanks!
[02:17] <dholbach> elmo: will you need the source package name for morgue-packages?
[02:17] <elmo> dholbach: yes, pls
[02:18] <dholbach> elmo: alright, thanks - will compile a HUGE list, to make sure, universe has no bugs and all lists are cleared, right?
[02:18] <elmo> boggle?
[02:19] <wasabi> elmo, get all my messages?
[02:19] <elmo> wasabi: the java stuff?  probably, but i'm a bit flooded by msg backlog - any chance you could please mail me?  
[02:19] <wasabi> sure
[02:20] <wasabi> elmo@ubuntu.com?
[02:20] <elmo> wasabi: james@ubuntu.com
[02:23] <elmo> mirnyy synced; rookery syncing
[02:24] <fabbione> elmo: great thanks
[02:25] <zyga> hmm
[02:25] <zyga> some portable byte swap functions you know of?
[02:25] <zyga> byteswap.h?
[02:25] <fabbione> elmo: feel free to stop syncing sparc and move it whenever you want.. i increased the local archive to spool 10 days of packages and not be dependent on sparc.u.c
[02:26] <Kamion> zyga: how about hton[sl] () and ntoh[sl] ()?
[02:26] <pitti> zyga: htons(), ntohs() maybe?
[02:26] <pitti> :-)
[02:27] <pitti> amu: why can't kdepim use some stable libraries, but must insist on taking the bleeding edge unstable crack?
[02:27] <dholbach> seb128: i'll remove gcompris and nautilus-media from meta-gnome2
[02:28] <ogra> pitti, thats KDE (Keep Da Edge) ;)
[02:28] <seb128> dholbach: k
[02:28] <pitti> elmo, amu: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuPackagesForMain
[02:29] <elmo> MartinPitt?: These ship multiple shared libraries in one deb which violates Debian packaging standards. 
[02:29] <elmo> pitti: dude, that's BS
[02:29] <elmo> it "violates" junichi's crackful not-even-close-to-being-a-standard "packaging guide"
[02:29] <pitti> elmo: doing this is not really the recommended way
[02:29] <pitti> elmo: you get into hell if only one SONAME changes, but the others don't, etc.
[02:30] <elmo> I really don't see how
[02:30] <elmo> and no one's ever explained to me why it's hell
[02:30] <pitti> elmo: if I have libfoo.so.2, this is packageed into libfoo2
[02:30] <pitti> a new API comes around, fine -> libfoo.so.3 -> libfoo3
[02:30] <pitti> but if there is libbar.so.4, how do you name the package then?
[02:31] <elmo> it doesn't matter as long as you change it?
[02:31] <pitti> if you stuff them itno one package?
[02:31] <elmo> the name of the package is cosmetic
[02:31] <pitti> elmo: no, it's important for dependencies
[02:31] <elmo> no, it's cosmetic
[02:31] <Kamion> pitti: changing it is important for dependencies; the name itself isn't
[02:31] <pitti> elmo: you have to upload the same libraries again in a new package
[02:31] <elmo> it doesn't matter if it's libfoo3 or libfoopkguidesucks3
[02:32] <elmo> pitti: so what?  in a lot of cases where people advocate splitting, any given program is going to be linked to both libraries anyway
[02:32] <pitti> so if libfoo1 ships {libfoo.so.1, libbar.so.2} and libfoo2 ships {libfoo.so.2, libbar.so2} you have a file conflict
[02:32] <pitti> ^ BAM
[02:32] <jbailey> Anyone have some spare cycles on an amd64 for a test glibc build?
[02:32] <pitti> so you have to increase the SONAME of libbar too
[02:32] <elmo> jbailey: err, yeah, concordia
[02:32] <pitti> which is crack, because it didn't change
[02:32] <elmo> pitti: replaces: the old one :P
[02:33] <pitti> elmo: you also need a virtual package to not break existing dependencies
[02:33] <elmo> eh?
[02:33] <elmo> no you don't
[02:33] <pitti> this gets so clumsy if it happens again...
[02:33] <pitti> libfoo2 has to provide libfoo1 for the libbar part
[02:33] <elmo> sorry dude, but you're on crack, debian has shipped multiple libraries in a package since day zero.  and it WORKS.
[02:34] <jbailey> elmo: Ah neat, didn't know about that one.  Doesn't seem to have my ssh key on it.
[02:34] <pitti> it works as long as all the libraries in it are changed at the same time
[02:34] <elmo> you need to start from that premise, rather than pretending like it's so broken it could never possibly work
[02:34] <elmo> (hello, {g,}libc)
[02:34] <elmo> jbailey: yeah, one sec, I need to add you to the porting_team group
[02:34] <pitti> well, I just noted it, that doesn't mean that I say no to main inclusion
[02:34] <elmo> pitti: again, no, not true
[02:35] <jbailey> elmo: Thanks.  How do I arrange to install build-deps / is it possible to arrange a chroot for testing afterwards?
[02:35] <pitti> elmo: if libc5 and libc6 shipped another library with the same soname, they would clash as well
[02:36] <elmo> jbailey: ask for build-deps for build-deps, I can trash the hoary-clean chroot with whatever packages you produce if you want
[02:36] <jbailey> elmo: Wonderful.  In the unlikely event that you choose to sleep sometime, is there someone else to ping for build-deps?
[02:37] <pitti> lamont: ping
[02:37] <elmo> jbailey: thom
[02:37] <elmo> jbailey: both i386 and amd64 chroots have glibc's build-dep (and a huge bunch besides) installed tho
[02:37] <elmo> jbailey: your accounts should work now
[02:37] <jbailey> Cool, thanks.
[02:38] <elmo> remember to 'linux32 dchroot' to get to the i386 one
[02:38] <mjg59> Gah!
[02:38] <mjg59> hwdb-client failed to send mail
[02:38] <elmo> (well 'linux32 dchroot -c hoary-i386'
[02:38] <mjg59> How's it meant to work?
[02:38] <ogra> mjg59, its not supposed to send mail ;)
[02:39] <mjg59> ogra: Hm. It failed with Unable to connect to server
[02:39] <ogra> mjg59, hopefully it dropped a file on your Desktop as it should, mail it to me ;)
[02:39] <jbailey> elmo: Yup thanks.
[02:39] <zul> hey
[02:39] <jbailey> Ah, linux32, nice.  This is my first time on an amd64 box.
[02:39] <ogra> mjg59, there is no server to connect to yet :)
[02:39] <mjg59> ogra: Is it supposed to work?
[02:39] <mjg59> ogra: Ah! 
[02:40] <elmo> Kamion: rookery's synced btw
[02:40] <Amaranth> seb128: Switched to PyXDG 0.9 instead of keeping 0.8 with the patch?
[02:40] <Kamion> elmo: thanks, updating translation bits nw
[02:40] <ogra> mjg59, its supposed to work on release .... for now i'm only collecting the data by mail to get an overview about whats out there and what i have to regard on transfer
[02:40] <Kamion> now
[02:40] <jdub> thom: around?
[02:40] <thom> jdub: yo
[02:40] <mjg59> ogra: Ok, cool. Sent.
[02:41] <seb128> Amaranth: any reason to not update ? The changelog is small
[02:41] <ogra> mjg59, thanks :)
[02:41] <dholbach> i'm looking through    wiki/MorgueCandidates   - Mithrandir requested removal of phpbb2 - any opinions?
[02:41] <Amaranth> seb128: Nope, afaik it was just that patch. :P
[02:41] <mjg59> ogra: One minor issue with hwdb-client - I needed to move the mouse off the forward button and back onto it before I could click
[02:41] <seb128> Amaranth: according to the changelog that's not
[02:41] <mjg59> If I just left the mouse pointer in the same place, I couldn't repeatedly click forward
[02:41] <Amaranth> ah
[02:41] <ogra> mjg59, was it active before ?
[02:41] <mjg59> Also, some of the text was appearing on top of the line
[02:42] <mjg59> I clicked forward, it turned grey, the next page appeared, it became active again, I clicked, nothing happened, I moved the mouse up, I moved the mouse down, I clicked, it went forward
[02:43] <ogra> mjg59, thats an rtf issue, i'll fix it with the next upload....the button thing is a gtk bug i dont know how to solve, gtk requires yu to move the mouse before ou can click a button if it was non active inbetween...
[02:43] <mjg59> Ok, cool
[02:43] <mjg59> Other than that, it's very nice!
[02:43] <ogra> seb128, ^^^ any known way arund that ?
[02:43] <ogra> mjg59, thanks :)
[02:44] <mjg59> thom: seb128: Thanks, I'm able to sleep with the sleep key now
[02:44] <thom> mjg59: cool
[02:44] <zyga> Kamion, pitti: htons ands stuff - thanks :)
[02:45] <zyga> pitti: mo files from ppc are written in big endian or little endian?
[02:49] <jordi> w
[02:50] <jbailey> 4 glibc compiles on the go, time for a walk.
[02:51] <Kamion> elmo: how often does rookery sync, normally? I'd like to generate collated translation files as often as is reasonable, since they're useful to Adi.
[02:51] <dholbach> elmo: could you please morgu-ify: vdkxdb, chill, cursel, ipmenu, nautilus-media, update, kernel-patch-2.4.25-m68k, kernel-patch-2.4.26-m68k, glademm, torch-examples, libmrproject ?
[02:52] <pitti> amu: is it possible to get rid of the smartcard stuff (opensc/openct)?
[02:52] <pitti> amu: or even better, drop these to a suggests: and use them if they are installed?
[02:53] <dholbach> and i'd like to morgu-ify  phpbb2  and  gcc3.2 (doko gave ok)  too, could anybody please help me with judging those?
[02:54] <seb128_> ogra: no idea
[02:54] <seb128_> mjg59: np, thanks for the patches
[02:57] <ogra> seb128, i thought so :) thanks
[02:58] <zyga> pitti: ping?
[02:58] <pitti> zyga: pong
[02:59] <zyga> pitti: www.suxx.pl/i18n/ppc-test.tar.gz
[03:00] <zyga> pitti: could you please make && ./test some-mo-file.mo
[03:00] <zyga> just to make sure ;] 
[03:00] <zyga> I've never had to deal with endianess before
[03:01] <zyga> ignore the warrning... i've cut stdio.h away by accident
[03:01] <pitti> zyga: ~/ppc-test $ ./test gtk+.mo
[03:01] <pitti> Big endian
[03:02] <zyga> great so no suprise here, thanks :)
[03:06] <seb128> jdub: when is planned GNOME 2.10.1 ?
[03:07] <jdub> seb128: april 4th/6th
[03:07] <pitti> seb128: will you upload the new crack at april 4?
[03:07] <seb128> pitti: that's the question
[03:07] <jdub> i was wearing my gnome hat when i scheduled that ;)
[03:07] <pitti> seb128: I need some hours to update the language packs
[03:07] <seb128> do I need to backport fixes
[03:08] <seb128> or am I allowed to package 2.10.1 :)
[03:08] <jdub> seb128: i think we need to choose our battles wisely for 2.10.1 uploads
[03:08] <pitti> seb128: if you just do this again, mdz will suffer another heart attack
[03:08] <jdub> we can always update translations post-release
[03:08] <seb128> pitti: that went fine for warty
[03:08] <jdub> so let's not do package updates just for translations
[03:08] <pitti> jdub: no, that's not what I meant
[03:09] <pitti> jdub: but _if_ seb uploads new packages, then these will certainly carry new translations
[03:09] <jdub> pitti: yes
[03:09] <jdub> pitti: i'm just want to limit the damage
[03:09] <pitti> jdub: and I'd like to build fresh base packages right before the release
[03:09] <seb128> jdub: how do we get translations updates if that's not from these uploads ?
[03:09] <jdub> seb128: import into rosetta, etc.
[03:09] <seb128> jdub: what damage ?
[03:09] <seb128> jdub: dude, that doesn't work
[03:09] <pitti> jdub: sure, I in no way encourage to upload the new crack without looking at it :)
[03:10] <jdub> seb128: basically, we want to get away with uploading as little as possible
[03:10] <seb128> jdub: rosetta is not ready yet, we can't rely on it for hoary
[03:10] <pitti> jdub, seb128: my scripts can emulate Rosetta almost perfectly now :)
[03:11] <seb128> pitti: rosetta is not automatically update with upstream translations, is it ?
[03:11] <pitti> seb128: no, but langpack-o-matic will do soon *hehe*
[03:11] <pitti> seb128: I have to do this anyway now for the Xhosa crack
[03:12] <jdub> seb128: i suppose we should not be scared of new tarballs that only contain translations :)
[03:12] <seb128> speaking about xhosa, there is some po in the GNOME CVS now
[03:12] <pitti> seb128: yes, I know. I'm going to extract these right now
[03:12] <seb128> jdub: we should not be scared at point versions for GNOME modules :p
[03:12] <pitti> seb128: it's a bit difficult since they need to be mapped to translation domain names
[03:12] <jdub> seb128: "careful" more than "scared" ;)
[03:13] <seb128> jdub: epiphany has a fix in the CVS now, and I want it for hoary
[03:13] <seb128> should I start spending time tracking the CVS and backporting fixes ?
[03:13] <seb128> or wait for 4th april and upload 10.0.1 ?
[03:13] <jdub> GNOME 10!
[03:13] <seb128> ups, 2.10.1
[03:13] <jdub> YAY!
[03:13] <jdub> ;-)
[03:14] <seb128> Can I blog about the new GNOME 10 ? :p
[03:14] <pitti> Ubuntu, the future distro
[03:14] <jdub> i'll leave it up to you, we just need to be very careful :)
[03:14] <jdub> man
[03:14] <Treenaks> hey, if Sun can do it (Java 5!)...
[03:14] <jdub> so many people thought i was serious
[03:14] <jdub> i couldn't believe it
[03:14] <seb128> lol
[03:14] <jdub> nutballs
[03:16] <seb128> so mdz will track me down if I upload 30 modules in 2 days again for 2.10.1 ? :)
[03:17] <pitti> if he survives this shock, yes :)
[03:17] <zul> and he will probably kill you :)
[03:17] <pitti> seb128: you might consider going to .au a bit earlier and hide in the outback
[03:17] <seb128> ah ah
[03:24] <pitti> seb128: why is gconf in main when we have gconf2?
[03:24] <pitti> or is gconf still used?
[03:24] <seb128> it is ?
[03:24] <seb128> that's an old GNOME 1 stuff
[03:24] <pitti> yes
[03:24] <pitti> seb128: I just wonder whether upstream's "gconf.po" belongs to gconf or gconf2
[03:24] <pitti> I assume the latter
[03:27] <seb128> pitti: GConf2.pot in gconf2
[03:27] <pitti> seb128: okay, thanks
[03:27] <seb128> np
[03:28] <pitti> seb128: now I have the translation domain, the Ubuntu source package, and the po file name and have to map them to each other
[03:28] <pitti> all three are different in some cases :-/
[03:29] <amu> pitti: the only real needed is the agent
[03:29] <seb128> Amaranth: 
[03:29] <seb128> Version 2.10.1
[03:29] <seb128>         * Make user desktop entries override system ones (Mark)
[03:29] <seb128> (gnome-menus)
[03:30] <jdub> Amaranth swore ;)
[03:31] <seb128> jdub: have you tried the menu editor ?
[03:31] <jdub> nup
[03:31] <lamont> pitti: ack
[03:31] <pitti> lamont: PHP4 failed on ppc with a mysterious error (amd64 and i386 work fine)
[03:31] <pitti> lamont: probably a give-back issue
[03:32] <pitti> lamont: (warty-security)
[03:33] <lamont> pitti: yeah -that's our ppc friend. given back
[03:33] <pitti> thanks
[03:33] <amu> pitti: no way to suggest them, ex. kdepim needs gpgsm at buildtime, if it's not there, it will be not supported by kontact
[03:33] <lamont> daniels: you around?
[03:34] <pitti> amu: if you have the feeling that this can be supported for 18 months in any way, and we won't run into trouble with broken smart cards, then go ahead
[03:35] <pitti> amu: personally I don't think dropping smartcard support is particularly bad
[03:37] <amu> pitti: i suggest to haggai let's drop it one more time. If you can accept just the agent would be enough for now
[03:40] <pitti> amu: yeah, thats fine for me
[03:41] <amu> pitti: cool,thx
[03:41] <daniels> lamont: trying not to be.  sup?
[03:42] <lamont> daniels: nvidia-settings... you care about that?
[03:42] <lamont> because it's ftbfs on amd64
[03:42] <amu> daniels: btw. is there a way to STOP services which run from /etc/X11/Xsession.d
[03:47] <daniels> lamont: bleh.  will check it out tomorrow, thanks.
[03:47] <daniels> amu: errr ... nope
[03:47] <daniels> amu: what in particular?
[03:47] <daniels> amu: most of the stuff you can configure to not start with /etc/X11/Xsession.options
[03:48] <daniels> amu: but nothing like invoke-rc.d
[03:48] <daniels> g'night folks
[03:48] <lamont> daniels: will file a bug for you then...
[03:49] <daniels> lamont: cheers
[03:49] <amu> daniels: gpg-agent, on a multiusersystem there's no glabal way to end their session
[03:54] <lamont> seb128: you aroudn?
[03:58] <seb128> yep
[03:59] <seb128> jdub: the new gnome-menus is bong
[03:59] <seb128> jdub: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=39135&action=view
[04:07] <zyga> pitti: ping
[04:07] <pitti> zyga: I'm still here :)
[04:07] <zyga> pitti: www.suxx.pl/i18n/ppc-test2.tar.gz
[04:07] <zyga> still tiny but this time it may find something usefull (eg number of strings)
[04:08] <zyga> It'd be great if we could work on the same .mo though...
[04:08] <zyga> maybe I'll upload a some common reference?
[04:08] <pitti> zyga: same mo:
[04:08] <pitti> ~/ppc-test2 $ ./test ../ppc-test/gtk+.mo
[04:08] <pitti> Big endian
[04:08] <pitti> We've got 106 strings
[04:09] <pitti> zyga: sure, just stick a mo file into the tarball
[04:09] <Kamion> mdz: please merge colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/casper--netcfg--0 patch-1; extra netcfg question added while fixing #7098
[04:09] <zyga> my gtk+.mo has 106 strings too, that means it's okay :)
[04:09] <zyga> ok all I needed is here
[04:09] <zyga> back to putting it all together
[04:10] <zyga> thanks a lot :)
[04:10] <jbailey> elmo: ping?
[04:11] <jbailey> Actually, anyone here insane enough to try my amd64 glibc debs? =)
[04:11] <jbailey> It'd be nicer to get broader testing than I'll get with running shell commands in a chroot.
[04:12] <zul> heh..
[04:13] <zyga> jbailey: compile or run?
[04:13] <zul> jbailey: you could try #ubuntu ;)
[04:14] <jbailey> zyga: To run.  I've got them built.  It should be quite safe, I've got it running as my main glibc on my k7, and am about to do it on my ppc box.
[04:14] <jbailey> zul: That's just cruel if there's a problem.
[04:14] <zyga> jbailey: toss the url, I'll play with them in free time
[04:14] <zul> jbailey: :)
[04:15] <zyga> btw as for ppc
[04:15] <zyga> how is g5 different from g4?
[04:15] <zyga> apart from 64bit stuff?
[04:15] <jbailey> zyga: Thanks, I'll probably look for someone with a system sooner, or just do a chroot test.  I'd like to get these uploaded pretty quick.
[04:15] <elmo> jbailey: ?
[04:16] <jbailey> zyga: There's a pile of things that are optional in some chips, like altivec, sqrt instruction, etc that you can assume are in a g5.
[04:16] <zyga> jbailey: so not all g4 have got vector stuff?
[04:16] <jbailey> elmo: Can you toss libc6_*deb and locales_*deb from concordia:~jbailey/glibc into a chroot please?
[04:16] <zyga> jbailey: If I were to buy ibook for example?
[04:17] <jbailey> zyga: I'm not a PPC guru, so I really don't know more than what I've said.  Like I don't know what the guarnatees are between a g3 and a g4.
[04:17] <jbailey> zyga: But I think that's right from when svenl has told me.
[04:17] <jbailey> And Phython.
[04:17] <zyga> AFAIR g3 are really different things but I may be wrong
[04:18] <elmo> jbailey: installed in clean chroot, stuff seems to still work
[04:18] <jbailey> elmo: Thanks. =)
[04:20] <jdub> seb128: cripes, you're right - it's all french!
[04:21] <lamont> jdub: it's all part of the french plot for world domination
[04:21] <zul> piquistes
[04:21] <jbailey> Zut!  Ils ont dcouvert l'ide!
[04:21] <seb128> jdub: ah ah
[04:22] <lamont> jbailey: lol
[04:22] <jbailey> lamont: Well, at least now I won't have to hide my thick qubecor accent when I talk English now ;)
[04:22] <zul> jbailey: heh
[04:26] <zyga> jbailey: qubec?
[04:26] <jbailey> zyga: The primarily french speaker province in Canada to which I'm moving in a few months.
[04:26] <jbailey> s/speaker/speaking/
[04:26] <jbailey> Bah.
[04:26] <adobbie> yeah, it's french outside of Montreal
[04:26] <zyga> jbailey: I studied french some time ago
[04:27] <jbailey> adobbie: There's a reasonable amount of french w/in Montral too.
[04:27] <zyga> jbailey: need to practice sometime
[04:27] <adobbie> jbailey: yes there is, just as there is in many places in N.B. and Ontario
[04:27] <csj> hi all, I want to customize the hoary liveCD and I `mount /mnt/extracted_fs /mnt/build -o loop` then chroot into remove many packages and now I got 563M = `du -sh build`, but why extracted_fs is 2G and I use create_compressed_fs to compress extracted_fs and I got 507M filesystem.cloop?
[04:28] <csj> isn't it should much smaller than 563M?
[04:30] <csj> I mean I remove so many packages in chroot environment but no big effect in its size of  filesystem.cloop
[04:33] <zyga> hmm
[04:33] <zyga> any gstreamer experts around?
[04:36] <Kamion> zyga: G5's more different from G4 than G4 is from G3, as far as I know - for example you can't run the same kernel on a G4 and a G5
[04:38] <thom> jbailey: i can test amd64 libc
[04:38] <jbailey> thom: I just hit the upload button. =)
[04:39] <Keybuk> jbailey: how Linus-like of you
[04:39] <thom> rock'n'roll
[04:39] <Keybuk> "it boots?  it's 2.3, you're lucky it even built!"
[04:39] <elmo> Keybuk: dude, he's done far more testing than most people uploading glibc to ubuntu do
[04:39] <jbailey> Keybuk: Nah, I actually tested graphics and sound on two arch's, chroot tests on two others.
[04:40] <thom> zyga: i have a dual g4 here which is more or less idle; if you need test cycles just ask
[04:40] <jbailey> Keybuk: I tend to figure any glibc that can run mozilla and gnome is good enough. =)
[04:40] <zyga> thom: not really cycles - feel of what's different and why :)
[04:40] <elmo> thom: oh, so that's where the other buildd went?
[04:40] <Keybuk> heh, that's like my old libtool test suite
[04:40] <Keybuk> "if it can build gnome and evolution, it passes"
[04:40] <zyga> thom: too bad that apple wants big $$$ for their stuff
[04:40] <thom> elmo: rofl, that'd be a G5 ;-)
[04:41] <zyga> thom: btw, DUAL g4?
[04:41] <zyga> I thought there were only dual g5's
[04:41] <Keybuk> *IN MY MIND*
[04:41] <thom> zyga: sure; this a quicksilver dual 450 g4
[04:42] <zyga> thom: good to know
[04:42] <jdub> mmm, dual opteron
[04:43] <zyga> jdub: I'll wait for dual core ;] 
[04:43] <trulux> hey adobbie 
[04:43] <trulux> pitti: hi
[04:43] <adobbie> hey
[04:43] <thom> zyga: i hope they do it right and have dual hypertransport per chip
[04:44] <adobbie> I'm sure they will
[04:44] <zyga> thom: I was thinking about amd
[04:44] <adobbie> everyone wants dualcore Xeon with EMT64 and hyperthreading :)
[04:44] <Mitario> hi everyone
[04:44] <trulux> pitti: adobbie and me are talking on the overhead of having to maintaine separate gcc packages, after testing, and after the study of what modifications the SSP can introduce to the toolchain, we think that having it available but not enabled by default on compilation is the way to go
[04:44] <Keybuk> jdub: it will be mine, OH YES, it will be mine
[04:44] <Mitario> koke, around?
[04:44] <zyga> thom: Intel can go to hell with the temperature of their chips
[04:44] <zyga> thom: my amd box is cooler than my own skin
[04:45] <thom> adobbie: ew; em64t is a waste of time compared to full fat opteron
[04:45] <adobbie> pitti: ie. you only execute the gcc modifications of you explicitly tell gcc to do so
[04:45] <pitti> trulux: well, not for Hoary :)
[04:45] <zyga> thom: em64t is slower in 64bit mode, it pretty much suxx 
[04:45] <adobbie> thom: what is it lacking that AMD64 has?
[04:45] <trulux> pitti: of course
[04:45] <trulux> pitti: Hoary+1
[04:45] <thom> zyga: eh? so was I (talking about amd)
[04:45] <pitti> adobbie: a wrapper around the standard gcc is not possible somehow?
[04:46] <zyga> adobbie: speed, low power factor
[04:46] <thom> decent memory controllers
[04:46] <adobbie> zyga: will be interesting to see benchmark comparisions
[04:46] <zyga> adobbie: go and google them out, there's plenty of them
[04:46] <trulux> pitti: yeah, we have C-based wrappers for ld and gcc, provide gcc-hardened and ld-hardened wrappers, but the way to go I think is related with right use of specs file (ie. profiles)
[04:47] <zyga> and all support what I've said unfortunatly
[04:47] <trulux> tseng: ping
[04:47] <pitti> trulux, adobbie: btw, you know that breezy (= hoary+1) will use gcc 4?
[04:47] <zyga> pitti: really?
[04:47] <zyga> pitti: gcc 4 is ready for prime time?
[04:47] <pitti> this was planned AFAIK
[04:47] <pitti> doko: ?
[04:47] <seb128> jbailey: around ?
[04:47] <zyga> (msg list traffic suggests otherwise AFAIK)
[04:47] <adobbie> pitti: when is breezy planned for release?
[04:47] <pitti> adobbie: october 2005
[04:47] <jbailey> seb128: Ayup
[04:48] <seb128> jbailey: could you join #gnome-hackers on irc.gnome.org ?
[04:48] <trulux> pitti: kein Probleme, I will work on it
[04:49] <dholbach> ok... i'll be off - see you later
[04:49] <adobbie> trulux: I do believe pappy is already looking into gcc-4.0
[04:49] <pitti> trulux: "kein Problem" btw :)
[04:49] <trulux> pitti: right, dman typos
[04:49] <trulux> :D
[04:49] <adobbie> trulux: I do not know however what Etoh plans to do.  afaik he's quite busy
[04:49] <pitti> brb
[04:50] <trulux> adobbie: yes, I need to look at him
[04:50] <trulux> adobbie: I talked to him when he was firslty planning to do it
[04:51] <pitti> gotta go, cu later
[04:51] <adobbie> gcc site doesn't have detailed branch status for 4.0
[04:54] <mjg59> Argh.
[04:56] <trulux> adobbie: I'm going to start it today
[04:57] <trulux> adobbie: jsut in need of toolchain messing
[04:57] <trulux> shit, typos... ;P
[04:57] <adobbie> trulux: you plan to mess with 4.0?
[04:58] <trulux> adobbie: yes
[04:59] <adobbie> I'll warn you now that it's no simple task
[04:59] <trulux> adobbie: "co'ing" gcc-4_0-branch
[04:59] <trulux> NP
[04:59] <adobbie> 3.3 to 3.4 was big so I imagine 4.0 is even bigger
[04:59] <trulux> it's
[05:00] <trulux> :)
[05:00] <mjg59> g-s-t unconditionally sends a command to set the modem volume. sl-modem then says ERROR. g-s-t waits 75 seconds and then tries to connect anyway, then succeeds.
[05:03] <mvo> mjg59: does sl-modem not support "atl"?
[05:05] <jbailey> fabbione: ping?
[05:06] <mdz> morning
[05:06] <ogra> morning mdz 
[05:06] <mvo> morning mdz
[05:07] <mjg59> Anyone have any idea how we can work around this?
[05:07] <mdz> mjg59: teach slmodem to just say OK?
[05:08] <mdz> is slmodem waiting 75 seconds because it doesn't recognize ERROR, or is it just being silly?
[05:08] <mvo> mdz: I think g-s-t is silly :/
[05:09] <mvo> I remember a irc discussion with carolosg about a similar problem some time ago, this 75 timeout may be his workaround
[05:10] <zul> hey mdz
[05:10] <jdub> mvo: 75s? that's a *long* time ;)
[05:11] <mdz> zul: downloaded your module, will test after I catch up this morning
[05:11] <zul> mdz: cool no problem
[05:11] <Kamion> mdz: what's your opinion on the last date when I could upload installer translation changes for hoary?
[05:11] <Kamion> mdz: the Xhosa team are working to quite a tight deadline
[05:12] <Kamion> mdz: as far as I'm concerned any time up to two days before release is possible, but I wanted to check
[05:12] <mdz> Kamion: fine by me
[05:12] <mvo> jdub: *nod*
[05:12] <Kamion> mdz: ok; I'll try to get as much in before that time as possible
[05:18] <koke> Mitario: I'm back
[05:20] <mvo> hey Mitario :)
[05:20] <koke> Mitario: I'm looking to CVS now and you've uploaded update-notifier's translation into update-manager :)
[05:20] <mdz> Kamion: casper merged
[05:22] <mdz> Kamion: I assume this ought to be uploaded as well?
[05:26] <mjg59> Can someone upload a single-line patch to sl-modem in multiverse?
[05:27] <mvo> mjg59: yes, what url?
[05:27] <mjg59> mvo: Hang on
[05:28] <Mithrandir> mvo: can you test and give me feedback on the utf8-migration-tool?
[05:28] <mvo> Mithrandir: yes, about the rename stuff? 
[05:28] <Mithrandir> yeah
[05:28] <mjg59> mvo: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/slmodem.diff
[05:28] <Mithrandir> and in general, if you care. ;)
[05:29] <mvo> Mithrandir: sure :) will try it in a couple of minutes
[05:29] <Mithrandir> mvo: thanks
[05:30] <seb128> jdub: around ?
[05:30] <jdub> yo
[05:30] <seb128> about the new gnome-menus
[05:30] <seb128> comment from markmc
[05:30] <seb128> "(They are being pulled in because of the <KDELegacyDirs/> in the .menu file -
[05:30] <seb128> see the menu spec for more details of the whys and wherefors)"
[05:31] <seb128> (the dup internet category is a dup though)
[05:31] <seb128> ups
[05:31] <seb128> is a bug
[05:31] <seb128> jdub: do we want to update it ? if yep, do you know what the right way to kick the craps from /usr/share/applnk out of the menu ?
[05:32] <jordi> is there a known bug that would make array6 not install a kernel meta-package?
[05:32] <mjg59> seb128: Modemlights doesn't seem to work at all
[05:33] <jdub> seb128: we don't have to worry about KDELegacyDirs anymore
[05:33] <Kamion> mdz: yeah
[05:33] <Kamion> jordi: yeah
[05:33] <seb128> mjg59: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7950
[05:33] <jdub> seb128: we ought to be able to drop that
[05:33] <Kamion> jordi: fixed between array 6 and preview
[05:33] <seb128> jdub: k
[05:33] <jordi> Kamion: alright
[05:33] <jdub> seb128: also, when you update, can you kill off the bad preferences items? :)
[05:33] <mjg59> seb128: Even allowing for that
[05:33] <seb128> mjg59: your bug is a dup of this one ?
[05:34] <seb128> mjg59: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7761 too
[05:34] <mjg59> Gah. Yes, the first one I submitted was - please close it
[05:34] <seb128> k
[05:34] <mjg59> seb128: Hrm. Hang on. I've got latest gnome-applets installed, but it still wants the root password as far as I can tell
[05:35] <seb128> mvo: a client for you :p
[05:36] <mjg59> seb128: Ok, it looks like my password may work, but the applet still does nothing
[05:36] <mvo> mjg59: I look into it later, I noticed that it still has issues (which means another perl debugging session *arg*)
[05:36] <xuzo> hi
[05:37] <mjg59> mvo: Heh, thanks :)
[05:37] <xuzo> i think that found a bug in hoary's instalation, any developer here :) ?
[05:37] <mvo> mjg59: this applet is _so_ fragile
[05:39] <mjg59> mvo: Argh!
[05:39] <mjg59> mvo: It does ifup ppp0 and gets Interface ppp0 already up
[05:40] <mjg59> mvo: So the issue seems to be that ifup ppp0 does nothing
[05:40] <mjg59> It starts a pppd that immediately hangs up
[05:41] <mvo> mjg59: *autsch* 
[05:41] <Kamion> xuzo: it would be better to say what your problem is and see if anyone knows the answer, rather than waiting for somebody to respond first :)
[05:41] <xuzo> Kamion, ok, but somethings people say you: use bugzilla better :)
[05:41] <Kamion> xuzo: that too
[05:41] <mvo> mjg59: feel free to report a bug and assign it to me as a reminder :)
[05:42] <xuzo> Kamion: but I not know which component is the correct
[05:42] <xuzo> averything works ok on Hoary install
[05:42] <Kamion> xuzo: for installation bugs, use "debian-installer" as a default
[05:42] <mjg59> Gah
[05:43] <xuzo> but on console (ttyX), keymap is not correct, I install Hoary using spanish settings, but on console keymap is US
[05:43] <mjg59> mvo: What's your address for bugzilla?
[05:43] <Riddell> elmo: is it possible to set up a baz archive (or other version control) for the kubuntu website which we could give people write access to?
[05:43] <mvo> mjg59: michael.vogt@ubuntu.com
[05:44] <Kamion> xuzo: that was fixed recently I believe
[05:44] <Kamion> xuzo: try a daily build
[05:44] <mdz> jdub: cursors?
[05:44] <xuzo> Kamion: ok, thanks
[05:45] <mjg59> mvo: Ok, done
[05:45] <jdub> mdz: u-a upload in an hour or so
[05:45] <mvo> mjg59: thanks
[05:45] <Mitario> mvo, heya
[05:45] <jdub> mdz: with ace new stuff from cliff
[05:46] <Mitario> mvo, was there something you'd liked tested in u-m?
[05:46] <mdz> jdub: fantabulous
[05:46] <mdz> jdub: login screen and splash?
[05:46] <jdub> yeah
[05:46] <mjg59> mvo: Ok, I've got it down to pppd call ppp0 - that does nothing
[05:47] <jdub> login screen is being a beeyatch though
[05:49] <mvo> mjg59: what do you get when you call it by hand? a error message about "the remote system is required to authenticate itself"?
[05:50] <mjg59> mvo: ARGH. Got it.
[05:51] <mjg59> mvo: It's calling chat -v -f ppp0
[05:51] <mjg59> It should be chat -v -f /etc/chatscripts/ppp0
[05:51] <mvo> mjg59: cool, thanks
[05:52] <mjg59> mvo: So it's g-s-t miswriting /etc/ppp/peers/ppp0
[05:53] <mjg59> Plus it not being resiliant enough - it should make sure ppp0 is down before trying to bring it up
[05:53] <Kamion> lamont: dpkg-architecture(1)
[05:58] <mvo> mjg59: thanks!
[06:01] <mdz> jdub: where's that list we made in Mataro of each component which needs branding and which strategy we would use to implement the branding?
[06:01] <jdub> SomethingOrOtherBranding on the wiki
[06:01] <mdz> ah, ManagingBrandingChanges
[06:02] <jdub> oh, SomethingOrOtherBrandingSomething ;)
[06:03] <ogra> jdub, seb128, koke has made a default icon for us for .desktop entrys without a icon 
[06:03] <schweeb> jdub: so how'd that index w/ gsf# go?
[06:03] <mdz> jdub: what was the rationale for separating foo-branding and foo-artwork?  I don't remember
[06:04] <jdub> mdz: so you can switch artwork/branding independently
[06:05] <ogra> jdub, seb128 to use it there should be a patch against gnome-panel or gnome-menus .... would you accept that one ? (and against which of them should the patch be if yes)
[06:05] <jdub> mdz: there was something else, too
[06:05] <jdub> ogra: what's the icon?
[06:05] <ogra> koke ? ^^^
[06:05] <koke> jdub: http://amedias.org/img/menus_default_icon_patch_3.png
[06:06] <ogra> jdub, quite similar to what vincent just mailed in reply to my meeting summary
[06:06] <koke> http://www.amedias.org/~koke/debian/hoary/gnome-panel_2.10.0-0ubuntu8.diff.gz
[06:06] <ogra> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76495
[06:06] <jdub> koke: ah, nicely generic but also not hideous ;-)
[06:06] <ogra> yeah
[06:07] <ogra> and much better then a empty entry
[06:07] <koke> jdub: heh, see the first try http://amedias.org/img/menus_default_icon_patch_1.png :)
[06:07] <jdub> koke: heh, mushy ;)
[06:07] <koke> jdub: it's the libwnck's default_icon.png
[06:08] <koke> the patch is just a proof of concept
[06:08] <koke> I guess the icon should go into gnome-icon-theme
[06:08] <koke> or someway into the stock set
[06:08] <ogra> koke, but i'm sure you can flesh out the patch ;)
[06:08] <koke> now is placed at /usr/share/icons
[06:12] <mdz> jdub: so that that fellow from bugzilla/wiki can use ubuntu-branding but crazymask-artwork?
[06:12] <Burgundavia> koke: by default, all icons go to /usr/share/pixmaps
[06:13] <jdub> mdz: ha ha
[06:13] <jdub> :-)
[06:13] <ogra> Burgundavia, depends...stock icons are in /usr/share/icons
[06:13] <jdub> Burgundavia: not icon theme icons
[06:13] <Burgundavia> ok
[06:13] <Burgundavia> I stand corrected
[06:15] <koke> ogra: I'm an english blogger now!! :)
[06:15] <koke> http://koke.amedias.org/
[06:15] <ogra> yeah
[06:16] <koke> I really love the GNOMEish screenshot style :D
[06:16] <ogra> jdub ^^^ next planet candidate ;)
[06:16] <jdub> koke: your gnome/ubuntu/self-portrait at the bottom left is rad ;)
[06:16] <ogra> koke, funny picture of you
[06:17] <jdub> koke: you're an ubuntu member already, aren't you?
[06:17] <jordi> koke: lol
[06:17] <jordi> jdub: dude I am not!
[06:17] <koke> jdub: yes
[06:17] <jdub> koke: wanna be on planet ubuntu? :)
[06:17] <ogra> koke <- gnomerooster
[06:17] <koke> I have to make a big note ***^W closes the window***
[06:17] <jdub> jordi: hurry up!
[06:17] <koke> :D
[06:17] <koke> jdub: that would be great :)
[06:17] <ogra> jordi, !
[06:18] <jordi> ogra: yeah dude
[06:18] <koke> ogra: gnomerooster??
[06:19] <ogra> koke, yeah, it looks a bit like a rooster ;)
[06:19] <koke> :D
[06:19] <ogra> :)
[06:19] <koke> jordi: are you going to Madrid this weekend??
[06:19] <jordi> koke: nope. Are you coming to Norway this week? :P
[06:20] <koke> ogra: I have to do some style changes 
[06:20] <ogra> hehe
[06:20] <koke> jordi: too far for me, and I already have the tickets to Madrid
[06:20] <jordi> for the assembly?
[06:20] <ogra> jdub, yeah, where is yours ?
[06:20] <koke> jordi: yep, the AVE is *very* expensive :)
[06:20] <jdub> mine is on there
[06:21] <ogra> jdub, hmm, then i should talk to thom, seems ff supresses it....
[06:21] <jordi> koke: no other way of getting there?
[06:21] <thom> ogra: hrm?
[06:22] <koke> jordi: bus, but there was no tickets at the hour we wanted
[06:22] <koke> and it's too slow :)
[06:22] <ogra> thom, planet.ubuntu.com, i dont see jdubs hackergotchi ... was kidding with the ff stuff...
[06:22] <thom> ah
[06:22] <thom> heh :-)
[06:23] <jordi> koke: no other trains?
[06:23] <koke> nop, only a daily regional in the afternoon
[06:24] <koke> now there's only aves and altarias at 44 or 36 with euro<26
[06:24] <zenrox> what do i need to fix when gnome take 15-20 mins to load a desktop
[06:24] <zenrox> then when i start a program it segfaults
[06:25] <zyga> mvo: ping?
[06:27] <enrico> Hello.  Does someone know of internationalised Ubuntu Live CDs?  We would like to distribute some Ubuntu live CDs in Italy, but we'd need them preset to Italian, with OOo Italian spellchecking, thesaurus and so on.  Does someone like this already exist?
[06:28] <koke> ogra: jdub : the patch is at http://amedias.org/~koke/patches/gnome-panel_add-icon-to-items-without-one_1.diff if you want to look at it directly
[06:28] <koke> just 2 lines :)
[06:28] <koke> but it needs the icon
[06:29] <zyga> is there a word  'maximal'?
[06:29] <zyga> or should it be 'maximum'
[06:29] <luis> enrico: there is a little bit of information on the wiki about customizing a liveCD, including language stuff
[06:29] <luis> zyga: there is such a word, but it is not in common usage
[06:29] <zyga> luis: tank you
[06:30] <jdub> *BOOM*
[06:30] <zyga> s/ta/tha/
[06:30] <ogra> jdub, ??
[06:30] <luis> enrico: but it doesn't include everything you want, I think, specifically defaulting the installer language to not-english
[06:30] <luis> enrico: if you find that part out, let me know and/or put it on the wiki, please :)
[06:31] <jdub> ogra: that's what happens after "tank you"
[06:31] <ogra> heh
[06:31] <zyga> jdub: heh :)
[06:31] <ogra> jdub, you play to much barrage....
[06:31] <zyga> what happens afer s/ta/tha/ ;]  ?
[06:33] <enrico> luis: thanks!
[06:37] <dholbach> bye mvo
[06:39] <toresbe> what the hell
[06:39] <toresbe> Ubuntu doesn't have  tuxracer?
[06:39] <lamont> Filename: pool/universe/t/tuxracer/tuxracer_0.61-6.4_i386.deb
[06:40] <lamont> toresbe: it's there on warty and hoary
[06:41] <toresbe> strange
[06:41] <toresbe> oh shit
[06:41] <toresbe> I am an idiot
[06:42] <toresbe> feel free to verbally and physically abuse me
[06:44] <ogra> herzi, how are the hula packages ?
[06:44] <herzi> ogra: will build some new ones today
[06:44] <toresbe> ehhehehehhehehehe be nihihahahahahahahaice
[06:45] <herzi> they shoudl fix any outstanding issues except the missing manpages
[06:45] <enrico> toresbe: :)
[06:45] <ogra> herzi, yeah, great....i'll review them before weekend
[06:45] <herzi> ogra: no need to hurry or I won't have time to hack on my presentation application
[06:46] <dholbach> herzi: you know when hoary releases? there IS need to hurry :-)
[06:46] <jdub> elmo: planet sync please :)
[06:47] <herzi> dholbach: i don't think so, as hula is universe stuff
[06:47] <ogra> herzi, i'd love to have them in universe for release, even if they are experimental (tagged inteh version number indeed)
[06:47] <ogra> herzi, universe freezes with the release, so time is short
[06:48] <ogra> (2 weeks)
[07:00] <robertj> how much of the behavior exhibited here --> http://www.music.uga.edu/wip/grumpyness/gripe_1.swf is ubuntu and how much of it is upstream?
[07:04] <cartman> libc6-i686 package has problems?
[07:04] <cartman> its no longer installable
[07:04] <cartman> neither nscd
[07:04] <fabbione> jbailey: pong?
[07:04] <cartman> both says "Depends: libc6.1 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-20ubuntu12) but it is not installable"
[07:04] <Kamion> *6.1*?
[07:04] <fabbione> what arch?
[07:05] <cartman> i386
[07:05] <fabbione> isn't ubuntu13 around?
[07:05] <Kamion> ubuntu12 was just uploaded today
[07:05] <cartman> 6.1 is the weird part...
[07:05] <Kamion> yes, that's an ia64 thing
[07:06] <Kamion> jbailey: glibc fucked, dude :)
[07:06] <cartman> heh
[07:06] <cartman> I bet my machine won't work if I reboot :P
[07:07] <ogra> cartman, dont reboot then 
[07:07] <Kamion> I imagine libc6 refused to upgrade; you should be ok
[07:07] <cartman> ogra: /me prays for electricity not goes off
[07:07] <cartman> Kamion: libc6-i686 and nscd did
[07:07] <cartman> rest went well actually
[07:07] <ogra> cartman, you got a ia64 without UPS ?
[07:07] <cartman> ogra: I have an i386 machine
[07:07] <cartman> P3
[07:08] <ogra> ah, sorry misread
[07:08] <cartman> np guess arches got mixed
[07:08] <Burgundavia> it is the latest update
[07:08] <Kamion> cartman: remove libc6-i686 for the moment
[07:08] <Burgundavia> I just tested that and then updated
[07:08] <cartman> Kamion: yup I did but I need it as it has NPTL
[07:09] <Burgundavia> I see that libc686 was going to be removed from my system
[07:09] <cartman> Burgundavia: yep same
[07:09] <schweeb> Other
[07:09] <Burgundavia> it worked until about 9am PST this morning
[07:09] <schweeb> woops
[07:12] <LeeJunFan> openoffice seems broken on amd64 now. :(
[07:12] <nasdaq7> hi does anyone know how to open .wdp files?
[07:12] <nasdaq7> .wpd
[07:13] <cartman> nasdaq7: get openoffice
[07:13] <nasdaq7> ok
[07:13] <cartman> nasdaq7: and try #ubuntu next time
[07:13] <nasdaq7> thanx
[07:13] <nasdaq7> i just did cartman
[07:13] <nasdaq7> sorry
[07:16] <Kamion> -Pre-Depends: libc6 (= ${Source-Version})
[07:16] <Kamion> +Pre-Depends: libc6.1 (= ${Source-Version})
[07:16] <Kamion>  Description: GNU C Library: Shared libraries [i686 optimized] 
[07:16] <Kamion> stuff like that might break :) something in glibc's build process has done this to debian/control in the past, IIRC
[07:16] <cartman> same problem in nscd too
[07:17] <Kamion> indeed, it's all visible in the source diff
[07:27] <mdz> seb128: we still seem to be receiving many bug reports about missing icons for removable media
[07:28] <mdz> seb128: do you have an idea about what is wrong?  is pitti looking at it?
[07:28] <seb128> mdz: pitti has fixed 2 crashers in gnome-vfs-daemon causing this
[07:28] <seb128> mdz: be sure they have the current version
[07:29] <seb128> for hal and gnome-vfs-daemon
[07:32] <seb128> mdz: have we got some new bug about that today ?
[07:32] <mdz> seb128: I saw some yesterday or the day before
[07:32] <mdz> I have not reached my bugs folder yet today :-/
[07:34] <Kamion> hmm, jbailey doesn't seem to be around; I guess I'll start fixing glibc here
[07:34] <mdz> jbailey: PING
[07:34] <seb128> mdz: hum, right, https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7641 has been reopened, pitti is working on it.
[07:35] <mdz> I thought the version skew breakage was fixed long ago in Debian
[07:35] <mdz> I remember it bit us for security updates
[07:38] <mdz> thom: so we hope the new firefox addresses/avoids the filechooser problems?
[07:38] <zyga> could somebody take a look at update-manager?
[07:38] <mdz> I wasn't able to reproduce them in the first place
[07:38] <zyga> (current cvs)
[07:39] <mdz> zyga: mvo would be the person to talk to
[07:39] <zyga> mdz: I know, he's not avail right now
[07:39] <zyga> It's something really simple
[07:39] <zyga> but I'm not familiar with autotools
[07:39] <zyga> one .in file doesn't build
[07:39] <Kamion> mdz: I don't see anything in the stable-security changelog about it
[07:40] <zyga> it is listed in configure.in 
[07:40] <zyga> but unlike many others in the same directory, it doesn't build
[07:40] <zyga> anyway
[07:40] <zyga> if someone is free I'd be gratefull
[07:41] <Kamion> mdz: also it's all been debhelperised since then
[07:41] <mdz> thom: please oh please include bug numbers in the powernowd changelog
[07:43] <dredg> mako: fantastic example of fingers operating independantly of brain... "carefully dropped the password into the envelope" :)
[07:44] <mdz> thom: I have had to endure bugzilla's search page to find the p4-clockmod bug references several times
[07:45] <mako> dredg: i've already fixed it 
[07:46] <dredg> mako: ah, reading through liferea
[07:46] <mako> dredg: yeah.. give it a cycle to catch up.. my gf already made fun of me for it :)
[07:46] <dredg> mako: i only find it amusing because i do it a lot :) more than once i've tried typing passport and ended up with passwd
[07:48] <_d4vid> hi all
[07:52] <Kamion> jbailey: how about making debian/control a double-colon rule with no prereqs (the way cdbs does it)?
[07:53] <Kamion> hm, no
[07:53] <Kamion> might just add a FORCE prerequisite
[07:55] <mdz> Kamion: do we set the 'splash' boot parameter on server installs?
[07:56] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[07:56] <Kamion> we probably shouldn't
[07:57] <mdz> probably not, I agree
[08:04] <Riddell> mdz: fancy holding a kubuntu meeting?
[08:04] <jdub> tseng: around?
[08:19] <bluefoxicy> tcl/tk is unstable
[08:20] <bluefoxicy> apps randomly freeze after prolonged use; they worked for weeks/months nonstop on gentoo.
[08:25] <Seveas> hello
[08:26] <Seveas> what's up with libc6?
[08:26] <Seveas> apt-get -s dist-upgrade wants to remove libc6-i686 and install libc6
[08:26] <Seveas> looks weird to me...
[08:26] <Seveas> any devels who can shed a light?
[08:26] <Seveas> especially since this also removes ubuntu-base
[08:27] <Kamion> we're working on it
[08:27] <Seveas> ok, thanks
[08:27] <Seveas> any ETA?
[08:27] <Kamion> well more accurately I'm working on it since jbailey seems not to be around
[08:27] <Kamion> not as yet
[08:28] <Kamion> it's test-building
[08:55] <xuzo> bye
[08:59] <zyga> Kamion: does this libc revert gettext patch that broke it several days ago?
[09:03] <Kamion> zyga: the version I'm building has precisely one change which has nothing to do with gettext
[09:03] <Kamion> zyga: there were fixes for your problem in -20ubuntu12, I believe
[09:03] <zyga> Kamion: I see, thanks
[09:04] <svenl> Kamion: cd booting should work.
[09:04] <Kamion> svenl: new OF?
[09:04] <svenl> Kamion: but it seems as if the iso code can't follow symlinks, which sucks bigtime for the ubuntu CD.
[09:04] <svenl> Kamion: yep.
[09:04] <Kamion> fantastic
[09:05] <Kamion> what symlinks are relevant?
[09:05] <svenl> well, i just got it working.
[09:05] <svenl> /etc/yaboot.conf :)
[09:05] <Kamion> I'll just copy that instead
[09:05] <zyga> Kamion: That's current version in hoary (-20ubuntu12)
[09:05] <Kamion> zyga: right
[09:05] <svenl> but i guess i can just fix iso symlinks not sure, i know nothing baout
[09:06] <Kamion> svenl: next daily CD will have a copy rather than a symlink
[09:06] <Kamion> svenl: thanks for fixing that, it'll make a big difference
[09:06] <svenl> Kamion: yep.
[09:07] <Kamion> I'll try to get some Pegasos documentation into the next d-i upload
[09:07] <svenl> Kamion: can you kick of a netinst build with it i can try ...
[09:07] <svenl> wait, no, i will fake it.
[09:07] <Kamion> svenl: don't have netinsts ...
[09:07] <Kamion> implementing those is kind of on the to-do list somewhere, but isn't a single night's work :)
[09:08] <Kamion> svenl: I've kicked a new daily CD build, ETA about an hour
[09:08] <Kamion> really gone for dinner now
[09:08] <svenl> ok,ping me the url when i am ready, and i will give it a try.
[09:10] <zyga> Kamion: dinner, what's your timezone?
[09:13] <jbailey> Kamion, mdz: Here now.
[09:14] <jbailey> Kamion: What happened?  I tested with -686 and with some LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4.1 tests to make sure that both libc's were working.
[09:14] <svenl> Kamion: ARG.
[09:15] <svenl> Kamion: it tells me Can only load kernels with one program header :/
[09:16] <schweeb> jdub: poke
[09:16] <jdub> schweeb: in mtg atm, back soon
[09:17] <schweeb> alright
[09:18] <fabbione> schweeb: hey.. i solved the xen problem
[09:18] <fabbione> schweeb: it was a python2.4/2.3 issue
[09:18] <schweeb> cool, what was the issue?
[09:18] <fabbione> it doesn't run on 2.4
[09:18] <schweeb> oh really?
[09:18] <fabbione> yeps
[09:19] <fabbione> it was enough to install a few 2.3 packages 
[09:19] <schweeb> guess I'll have to modify my packages then, cause I was making them against 2.4 (albeit not testing them yet)
[09:19] <fabbione> and change the default /usr/bin/python symlink
[09:19] <fabbione> schweeb: well see if you can get xend to start
[09:19] <fabbione> perhaps my system isn't really state of the art
[09:19] <schweeb> well, can't start xend unless you're in a xen kernel
[09:20] <fabbione> (it's one of my test and destroy boxes)
[09:20] <schweeb> it needs the proc control interface
[09:20] <fabbione> schweeb: yes i know.. i mean once you get the kernel, you can check xend
[09:20] <schweeb> yea
[09:20] <schweeb> probably should be reported upstream
[09:23] <fabbione> yes
[09:23] <fabbione> but i have no contact with upstream tho
[09:25] <jbailey> Kamion: .PHONY is the usual place to put that sort of magic.
[09:25] <jbailey> Lemme see if it works with files in subdirectories.
[09:25] <schweeb> fabbione: xen-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
[09:29] <jbailey> Kamion: Yeah it seems to.  So .PHONY is a better choice than an empty :: rule, incase some of the prereq's do actually need to get built.
[09:35] <Burgundavia> jdub: ping
[09:35] <jdub> Burgundavia: in mtg atm
[09:36] <Burgundavia> jdub: np
[09:44] <thom> mdz: *which* filechooser problem? there are two - there's a crasher when you create new directories, which is a GTK bug, and there's the not fucking downloading anything, which i've fixed
[09:45] <mvo> zyga: update-manager?
[09:48] <mdz> thom: not-fucking-downloading anything
[09:48] <mdz> I couldn't reproduce either of them, fwiw
[09:49] <thom> the not downloading one i nailed down last night and fixed this morning
[09:50] <thom> i can reproduce the crasher occasionally but only in french
[09:51] <seb128> thom: I see you coming dude
[09:52] <thom> (seriously, in en_GB i can't crash it, in fr_FR i can)
[09:55] <zyga> does anyone around have access to all .mo files _locally_ ?
[09:55] <zyga> I'd rather avoid getting all langpack-xx packages 
[09:56] <thom> seb128: just tried it again to confirm
[09:56] <zyga> I need to run small script
[09:58] <thom> seb128: epiphany does exactly the same
[09:58] <seb128> what do you do ?
[10:00] <zyga>  for domain in /usr/share/locale-langpack/*/LC_MESSAGES/*.mo; do gettext -d `basename $domain .mo` "" | grep 'Plural-Forms'; done | sort -u
[10:01] <zyga> if anyone can, please send results to zyga@www.suxx.pl
[10:01] <thom> seb128: open epiphany, right click, "save as", "parcourir pour d'atures dossiers", "creer un dossier", type something, ephy gets SIGABRT
[10:02] <seb128> works fine
[10:03] <thom> maybe you should try it in english *g*
[10:03] <seb128> ah ah
[10:03] <seb128> where is the fileselector when you do that ?
[10:03] <thom> seriously, i can't do it with my normal account, just my french test account
[10:03] <thom> how do you meant?
[10:03] <seb128> and seriously I'm in fr_FR.UTF-8 and it doesn't crash
[10:03] <seb128> do you have ~/Documents as the default fileselector folder ?
[10:04] <seb128> when you click on "parcourir pour d'autres dossiers"
[10:04] <seb128> it picks the previous choice ?
[10:04] <seb128> ~/Documents ?
[10:04] <seb128> $HOME ?
[10:04] <thom> $HOME
[10:05] <seb128> and it crashes every time ?
[10:05] <thom> yep
[10:05] <seb128> doesn't crash :/
[10:05] <seb128> neither in firefox or epiphany
[10:06] <thom> i really dunno what causes it, then
[10:07] <thom> seb128: you have a totally blank test account (or could you make one) to try it on?
[10:07] <seb128> lemme try in a gdmflexiserver 
[10:09] <seb128> doesn't crash, grumpf
[10:09] <Kamion> jbailey: yeah, I went through the mental process of "::? no. depend on FORCE? no. .PHONY: yes" earlier and forgot to mention the last bit; I ran a test build and it succeeded
[10:10] <seb128> thom: what theme are you using ?
[10:10] <seb128> thom: I don't think that's it but who knows ...
[10:10] <thom> seb128: absolute total default hoary, so clearlooks
[10:10] <Kamion> jbailey: diff is just:
[10:10] <Kamion> --- glibc-2.3.2.ds1/debian/rules.d/control.mk
[10:10] <Kamion> +++ glibc-2.3.2.ds1/debian/rules.d/control.mk
[10:10] <Kamion> @@ -33,0 +34,2 @@
[10:10] <Kamion> +
[10:10] <Kamion> +.PHONY: debian/control
[10:10] <Kamion> jbailey: shall I upload that?
[10:11] <thom> seb128: are you testing on amd64 or x86?
[10:11] <seb128> x86
[10:11] <thom> hrm
[10:12] <thom> (i'm on amd64)
[10:12] <Kamion> zyga: I'm in England, so UTC
[10:12] <jbailey> Kamion: Yeah, that looks right.  I'm surprised this didn't eat me on the tests, though.  I carted aroudn the .dsc and .diff and unpacked on the various systems.
[10:13] <Kamion> jbailey: less loaded test systems than the buildds, maybe?
[10:13] <thom> seb128: works fine on x86 with a brand new user
[10:13] <seb128> grumpf
[10:13] <seb128> I don't like that
[10:13] <Kamion> jbailey: debian/control is in the diff earlier than debian/control.in/*, so it could certainly end up with a lower timestamp
[10:14] <jbailey> Evil.
[10:14] <thom> seb128: no, i can't say i'm keen
[10:14] <Kamion> ok, uploading
[10:14] <jbailey> I know that ia64 would occasionally fail on Debian buildd's with this type of problem, and we never figured out why.  It used to be fun to just blame lamont.
[10:14] <Kamion> haha
[10:15] <Kamion> jbailey: I left debian/control in the source package the way it was (libc6.1, I assume you built the source package on ia64); should give it more chance to break if it's still dodgy, so that we can fix it permanently
[10:16] <jbailey> Cool, and yup I did build on ia64.
[10:18] <Kamion> svenl: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/, or similar rsync address, updated
[10:18] <Kamion> svenl: (i386 is broken, but powerpc should be fine
[10:18] <Kamion> )
[10:21] <thom> mdz: so, firefox 1.0.2
[10:22] <thom> mdz: basically, i have to either backport 2 thirds of it, or upload it
[10:22] <mdz> Kamion: i386 broken?
[10:22] <Kamion> mdz: glibc
[10:22] <mdz> oh, that's i386-only?
[10:22] <thom> (i'm not thrilled by either option)
[10:22] <mdz> thom: security fixes?
[10:22] <thom> mdz: yes
[10:23] <Kamion> mdz: it was a race
[10:23] <mdz> that excuse won't hold out forever; firefox has new vulnerabilities in every release
[10:23] <mdz> someday we have to stabilize
[10:23] <mroth> didnt they release a security 1.0.2 for thunderbird too?
[10:23] <thom> i know; i promise 1.0.2 will be the last upstream version i upload to hoary, if i can
[10:23] <thom> mroth: yes
[10:23] <mdz> thom: can you have it uploaded tonight?
[10:23] <mroth> thom: ugh
[10:23] <thom> mdz: tomorrow morning latest; i'll try and do tonight
[10:23] <mdz> 7 days testing and fixing >> 6 days
[10:24] <thom> nod
[10:24] <mjg59> Oh argh NO.
[10:24] <mroth> were the security holes even serious this time?
[10:24] <mroth> last time it was just the IDN thing
[10:25] <thom> mroth: last time had rather more than just that; and 1.0.2 firefox has at least 5 serious problems fixed
[10:25] <mroth> thom: ouch
[10:25] <mroth> how about the thunderbird changes?
[10:26] <jdub> schweeb: yo?
[10:26] <mroth> yuck, 6 security fixes in TB1.0.2
[10:26] <schweeb> jdub: used pbuilder, and found 2 missing build-deps on that gsf-sharp package
[10:26] <schweeb> jdub: and is that actually going in universe or not?
[10:27] <jdub> schweeb: i'd like to put a gsf-sharp package in
[10:27] <Burgundavia> jdub: you wait ./ -- http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/23/1820243&from=rss
[10:28] <lamont> jbailey: oh, I knew exactly why it failed, and indicated why
[10:28] <lamont> it's a b0rken package
[10:28] <mroth> Burgundavia: the Bruce Perens reply to that thread is pretty funny
[10:28] <Burgundavia> mroth: it is
[10:29] <Burgundavia> mroth: "it will be checked into debian"
[10:29] <schweeb> jdub: alright, well I'm lookin into tryin to be motu... should I consult an MOTU about this package, or you want to?  I know metallikop personally and he's MOTU now
[10:29] <lamont> jbailey: and the fix was always taht some debian developer would just upload their home-built binaries instead of fixing the source pacakage.
[10:29] <Kamion> lamont: with any luck that's it fixed a bit more permanently now
[10:29] <thom> oh dear "I think there's a natural synergy here with Bruce Perens being an "industry insider" and Shuttleworth having deep pockets.
[10:30] <thom> I too have a natural synergy with people who have deep pockets."
[10:30] <jdub> schweeb: yes, please do -> i'm happy to vouch for your fast learning on it ;)
[10:30] <schweeb> jdub: alright, awesome
[10:30] <dholbach> schweeb: is it a NEW package?
[10:30] <schweeb> dholbach: yep
[10:30] <lamont> Kamion: woot
[10:31] <dholbach> schweeb: wiki/MOTUNewPackagePolicy then... sorry for being anal, but if it's cool, you'll surely find 3 people to review it
[10:31] <schweeb> dholbach: yea, I asked a while ago in -motu actually, no one was paying attention ;)
[10:31] <jdub> schweeb: you can put me as a reviewer :)
[10:32] <dholbach> schweeb: must be the end-of-release-cycle hectic :-)
[10:32] <schweeb> yep
[10:32] <jbailey> lamont: Well, we usually tried to build all of the binaries on our local machines anyway so that we knew what we uploaded would work.
[10:32] <dholbach> jdub: yeah ... wiki/MOTUNewPackages - a bit of work on top :-)
[10:32] <schweeb> dholbach: well, it was while lamont was spewing all that package status stuff
[10:32] <dholbach> jdub: hula-server for example
[10:32] <jbailey> lamont: I Don't think I ever heard about the bug, but any upload I did would've included ia64 in the merged changes.
[10:33] <lamont> I know I filed it in the bts at least once
[10:34] <lamont> and it was closed with something along the lines of "it's uploaded now, closing."
[10:34] <lamont> IIRC
[10:36] <mjg59> What's the best way for me to add extra applets to the default login?
[10:37] <ogra> jdub, any comment on kokes patch ? 
[10:39] <jdub> ogra: no, up to seb
[10:39] <ogra> jdub, but the idea of a default icon instead of no icon is ok with you ?
[10:40] <ogra> (as our desktop team lead)
[10:40] <koke> it seems I arrive at a good time :)
[10:41] <ogra> koke, i waited until youre back ;)
[10:41] <seb128> have you read the upstream bug ?
[10:42] <ogra> seb128, only the part vincent sent as reply in u-d@
[10:43] <jdub> ogra: yes, totally (wiki koke's nice icon)
[10:43] <ogra> jdub, great
[10:44] <seb128> bah I don't like the idea :p
[10:44] <seb128> (you'll learn to be carreful when jdub totally agrees with something :p)
[10:45] <ogra> seb128, i understand you, but itsunlikely that we will have any additional icons in place for hoary
[10:47] <bluefoxicy> ping, is dosfsck known to be broken, or vfat?
[10:47] <ogra> seb128, so the choice it to have no icon or a default icon for 6 months, i vote for default here, i agree with the lazy developers aspect.... but currently my focus is on the user...
[10:47] <bluefoxicy> because I just crossposted to lkml and ubuntu-devel about it being unsafe to write to vfat filesystems
[10:47] <Kamion> bluefoxicy: there's a bug on dosfstools about breakage certainly
[10:47] <ogra> night Kamion 
[10:47] <jbailey> g'n Colin.
[10:47] <bluefoxicy> Kamion:  oh damn.
[10:47] <seb128> ogra: apparently you didn't get the joke :/
[10:48] <jdub> heh
[10:48] <ogra> seb128, all work and no play makes ogra a dull boy :-P
[10:48] <jdub> seb128: a german man getting a french man's joke? ah ha ha ha!
[10:48] <seb128> :)
[10:49] <seb128> rohhh
[10:49] <ogra> jdub, ah, come on... 
[10:54] <ogra> koke, so dod you manage the rest with seb128 ?
[10:54] <ogra> -d
[10:54] <seb128> patches are welcome
[10:55] <zyga>  for domain in /usr/share/locale-langpack/*/LC_MESSAGES/*.mo; do gettext -d `basename $domain .mo` "" | grep 'Plural-Forms'; done | sort -u
[10:55] <zyga> if anyone can, please send results to zyga@www.suxx.pl
[10:56] <schweeb> jdub: well, I threw it on MOTUNewPackages, guess you're supposed to add any comments on my pkg there and say you reviewed it
[10:57] <koke> seb128: http://www.amedias.org/~koke/debian/hoary/gnome-panel_2.10.0-0ubuntu8.diff.gz
[10:57] <jdub> oh man
[10:57] <jdub> i have to use the wiki to give you love?
[10:57] <schweeb> I guess
[10:57] <schweeb> dholbach's bein kinda anal right now
[10:57] <schweeb> heh
[10:58] <seb128> koke: please open a bugzilla bug with only the diff for this change
[10:58] <koke> seb128: you mean debdiff *ubuntu7.dsc *ubuntu8.dsc ??
[10:58] <ogra> jdub, yeah, blame dholbach ;)
[10:59] <seb128> koke: I mean a diff to put in debian/patches
[10:59] <seb128> koke: or a diff between current revision and your version
[11:00] <koke> seb128: the patch is here http://amedias.org/~koke/patches/gnome-panel_add-icon-to-items-without-one_1.diff
[11:00] <koke> but you also need the icon
 koke: or a diff between current revision and your version <-- I guess this equivs to debdiff
[11:01] <seb128> yep
[11:03] <koke> seb128: http://amedias.org/~koke/patches/gnome-panel_add-icon-to-items-without-one_ubuntu.diff <-- is this what you want??
[11:04] <seb128> koke: exactly, thanks
[11:19] <ogra> jdub, read seths recent blog entry ? 
[11:21] <koke> seb128: should I file the bug anyway??
[11:22] <seb128> koke: I'll handle that now
[11:22] <koke> ok :)
[11:22] <seb128> thanks
[11:24] <thom> jdub: 8103 probably fixed
[11:27] <zyga> anyone with ppc around?
[11:29] <jbailey> zyga: <--
[11:30] <ogra> thom, yeah
[11:30] <seb128> thom: let me know how that works :)
[11:30] <zyga> jbailey: www.suxx.pl/i18n/new-libintl/tests/ppc-test3.tar.gz
[11:31] <zyga> jbailey: please run and msg the results
[11:31] <jbailey> zyga: Umm..  There's source code in that, right?
[11:31] <zyga> jbailey: of course :)
[11:31] <zyga> s/ //
[11:32] <thom> yeah, as soon as new firefox finishes building
[11:32] <lamont> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/Lists/hoary-test.report.i386
[11:32] <lamont> et al.
[11:37] <lamont> seb128: you around?
[11:38] <seb128> yep
[11:39] <infinity> kamont : Did the retry of php4 on PPC go okay?
[11:39] <infinity> s/kamont/lamont/
[11:41] <lamont> no failure log yet...:-)
[11:41] <lamont> that is, I think it did
[11:42] <infinity> Mmkay.
[11:43] <ogra> (mind driven)
[11:43] <lamont> Kamion: how often is hoary_outdate.txt updated?
[11:46] <koke> Accepted gnome-panel 2.10.0-0ubuntu8 (source) <-- seb128 great :)
[11:46] <seb128> looks nice with an icon :)
[11:46] <ogra> yay
[11:53] <sPoof> hi
[11:54] <thom> ber, seth didn't actually link to the trivial patch you need
[11:54] <thom> suck
[11:54] <sPoof> I am Jonas Smedegaard, Debian maintainer of MoinMoin.
[11:55] <tseng> ello, Jonas
[11:55] <sPoof> I have prepared a package of 3.4 - requested by Mark Shuttleworth.
[11:55] <tseng> coolness
[11:56] <sPoof> how to pass that on to Ubuntu?
[11:56] <tseng> well since mark is the SABDFL i guess he wants one of his cronies to fast track it
[11:56] <thom> sPoof: you should speak to mdz
[11:56] <tseng> but youll have to talk to him.. it would normally be a MOTU matter
[11:57] <sPoof> I was told you needed it by 23rd - which is about now.
[11:57] <sPoof> ...and Mark hasn't responded to my emails last couple of days.
[11:57] <dholbach> sPoof: drop into #ubuntu-motu :-)
[11:58] <sPoof> Jane Silber told me yesterday to go here for technical questions
[11:58] <sabdfl> sPoof: i'm on holiday :-)
[11:58] <sPoof> I should get in touch with Kamion or Colin Watson...
[11:59] <sPoof> Oh - sabdfl is Mark? :-)
[11:59] <infinity> sPoof : Yes.
[11:59] <infinity> And Kamion is Colin... So, "Kamion or Colin" sounds a bit odd. :)
[12:00] <sPoof> sorry - last time I used IRC was two years ago... :-P
[12:00] <mjg59> mdz: http://seclists.org/lists/linux-kernel/2005/Mar/6078.html is a fix for PCI interrupts on some VIA-based systems