| === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | greetings | 02:49 |
|---|---|---|
| === Kinnison [~dsilvers@haddenham.pepperfish.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| sabmoc | jsgotangco, hey dude | 03:27 |
| jsgotangco | alex hey you still awake haha | 03:28 |
| sabmoc | its only 6pm | 03:28 |
| sabmoc | of course im awake | 03:29 |
| jsgotangco | oh you already slept then | 03:29 |
| sabmoc | im alaways awake >_> | 03:29 |
| jsgotangco | i thought you were still in zombie mode | 03:29 |
| sabmoc | no, drank some holy potion and im ok now | 03:29 |
| jsgotangco | hope its not moonshine | 03:29 |
| sabmoc | thats too holy for me | 03:30 |
| sabmoc | i prefer beer | 03:30 |
| === Kinnison [~dsilvers@haddenham.pepperfish.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | im so bored here at work i wanna go home its only 10:30 am but the holiday feeling is already in me | 03:30 |
| sabmoc | everyday is like that for me | 03:31 |
| jsgotangco | well we're having some catholic holidays starting tommorow till sunday | 03:31 |
| sabmoc | ah cool | 03:31 |
| === sabmoc is back (gone 05:31:20) | ||
| sabmoc | im going to draw for a bit, ill be back later | 03:32 |
| jsgotangco | k see ya | 03:32 |
| === EricNeon [~ericneon@203.148.3.94] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| EricNeon | any body could build a web site as "www.chubuntu.org" for Chinese team of ubuntu? | 03:44 |
| jsgotangco | hi eric | 03:47 |
| jsgotangco | you might want to check out the wiki pages for details on registering a domain with the ubuntu name | 03:48 |
| jsgotangco | but if your local team is already established, you can always request ubuntu for an ubuntu-cc.org domain | 03:48 |
| jsgotangco | i think for china, it might be ubuntu-cn | 03:48 |
| jsgotangco | ubuntu.cn.org i believe | 03:48 |
| jsgotangco | wait should be ubuntu-cn.org | 03:48 |
| jsgotangco | its best you consult the wiki first | 03:49 |
| EricNeon | ok | 03:49 |
| EricNeon | ubuntu-cn | 03:49 |
| EricNeon | when could web site begin? | 03:50 |
| EricNeon | just "www.ubuntu-cn.org" | 03:50 |
| jsgotangco | you have to consult matthias urlichs for that | 03:51 |
| jsgotangco | https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MatthiasUrlichs | 03:51 |
| EricNeon | I had find it ,but I can't see it | 03:53 |
| EricNeon | let me retry | 03:54 |
| sabmoc | EricNeon, hi, are you thinking of starting a local team for china? | 04:25 |
| sabmoc | I am in the process of starting a Canadian team | 04:26 |
| sabmoc | EricNeon, you can see our page here, if you have any questions let me know https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CanadianTeam | 04:26 |
| jsgotangco | you will fail! | 04:39 |
| jsgotangco | joke | 04:39 |
| jsgotangco | hehhe | 04:39 |
| EricNeon | ^ | 04:59 |
| EricNeon | hello | 04:59 |
| EricNeon | sabmoc | 04:59 |
| EricNeon | I will start a Chinese Team for ubuntu | 05:00 |
| EricNeon | now ,we had some members, for example Hiweed Leng,Carlos Liu, Huahua Easthero | 05:02 |
| jsgotangco | just make a table | 05:05 |
| jsgotangco | ill show you later | 05:05 |
| jsgotangco | i gotta eat first | 05:06 |
| EricNeon | jsgotangco, where are you from? | 05:06 |
| EricNeon | I am in Shanghai now | 05:07 |
| EricNeon | I gotta eat too | 05:07 |
| === EricNeon [~ericneon@203.148.3.94] has left #ubuntu-doc [""] | ||
| === EricNeon [~ericneon@203.148.3.94] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| sabmoc | hi EricNeon im here | 05:17 |
| sabmoc | EricNeon, I was just in Shenzhen about a month ago | 05:18 |
| EricNeon | I am be back | 05:48 |
| EricNeon | lol~ | 05:48 |
| EricNeon | nice to meet you sabmoc | 05:49 |
| EricNeon | many of my friend are in Canada | 05:49 |
| sabmoc | EricNeon, nice to meet you also | 05:55 |
| sabmoc | I'll be back in one moment | 05:55 |
| EricNeon | :) | 05:55 |
| EricNeon | I must re compile xchat | 05:59 |
| === sabmoc [~alex@d154-20-136-124.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| sabmoc | hi | 06:10 |
| === EricNeon [~ericneon@203.148.3.94] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === cc [~cc@byte.fedora] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | EricNeon hi i am in Manila at the moment | 06:44 |
| jsgotangco | i just came from lunch | 06:44 |
| EricNeon | hoho | 06:44 |
| EricNeon | I had lunch one hour ago | 06:45 |
| EricNeon | what are you do in Manila? | 06:46 |
| EricNeon | I am looking for any body who is love ubuntu in chinese | 06:48 |
| jsgotangco | EricNeon: i am of chinese descent but unfortunately, i was not trained in mandarin at home | 06:51 |
| jsgotangco | my grandfather came from guangdong | 06:51 |
| EricNeon | ohmy english is so pool | 06:51 |
| EricNeon | :) | 06:52 |
| jsgotangco | heh its ok man youre cool | 06:53 |
| EricNeon | I am realy ZheJiang ShaoXing | 06:53 |
| EricNeon | I work and living at Shanghai | 06:53 |
| jsgotangco | hello i am jerome | 06:54 |
| jsgotangco | nice to meet you | 06:54 |
| EricNeon | me too | 06:55 |
| EricNeon | now ,I have to working | 06:55 |
| EricNeon | see you ! | 06:55 |
| jsgotangco | me too talk to you later | 06:55 |
| === Burgundavia [~Burgundav@S0106000bdbb5820d.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | Burg hi | 07:30 |
| Burgundavia | salut | 07:34 |
| === sabmoc [~alex@d154-20-136-124.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| sabmoc | hello | 07:49 |
| EricNeon | hi | 07:56 |
| Burgundavia | salut all | 07:59 |
| jsgotangco | salut | 08:01 |
| sabmoc | HI guys | 08:09 |
| sabmoc | I finished my badger today :P ..im just watching some tv | 08:10 |
| jsgotangco | how does it look like now? | 08:10 |
| sabmoc | want to see it? | 08:10 |
| jsgotangco | sure | 08:11 |
| Burgundavia | sounds good | 08:13 |
| sabmoc | Hi Burgundavia | 08:13 |
| sabmoc | shall I send it to you also? | 08:14 |
| sabmoc | jsgotangco, sent | 08:14 |
| Burgundavia | yes | 08:15 |
| === BuffaloSoldier [~user@218.111.208.82] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | the breezy badger? | 08:17 |
| jsgotangco | i thought it was benny badger | 08:17 |
| BuffaloSoldier | the last i heard it was breezy | 08:17 |
| sabmoc | yep thats what I heard | 08:17 |
| sabmoc | jsgotangco, so what do you think, any suggestions? | 08:19 |
| jsgotangco | on the UbuntuDownUnder wiki, it was "bendy badger" | 08:19 |
| jsgotangco | hmmm | 08:19 |
| sabmoc | well the announcement for the mascot competition says breezy, but it doesnt matter I can just edit that text and change to to whatever I need to. | 08:21 |
| BuffaloSoldier | i got breezy from here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=20381 | 08:21 |
| sabmoc | BuffaloSoldier, I dont think I have introduced myself yet, hello | 08:22 |
| jsgotangco | can anyone log into the wiki i get authentication failures | 08:22 |
| BuffaloSoldier | sabmoc: me too.. hi there | 08:22 |
| sabmoc | BuffaloSoldier, my names Alex, I'm in Canada | 08:22 |
| BuffaloSoldier | sabmoc: I'm Firdaus from Malaysia | 08:23 |
| sabmoc | nice to meet you | 08:23 |
| Burgundavia | sabmoc: nice work | 08:26 |
| sabmoc | Burgundavia, have any suggestions? | 08:28 |
| BuffaloSoldier | what are you guys up to? | 08:28 |
| jsgotangco | it seems the wiki isnt working at the moment | 08:28 |
| Burgundavia | sabmoc: to be honest, I liked the badger without the computer | 08:29 |
| Burgundavia | sabmoc: simpler and cleaner | 08:29 |
| sabmoc | BuffaloSoldier, Im just showing them a picture I did for the mascot competition | 08:29 |
| Burgundavia | sabmoc: but the new colour is nice | 08:29 |
| BuffaloSoldier | Ubuntu is going to have a mascot? :) nice | 08:29 |
| sabmoc | Burgundavia, yeah Im not so sure about the computer | 08:29 |
| jsgotangco | ditch the desktop | 08:30 |
| sabmoc | but then what do I put infront of him? he is positioned to be looking at something | 08:30 |
| sabmoc | I think I might have to scrap it and start again. | 08:31 |
| sabmoc | BuffaloSoldier, well hopefully some real artist are also making some pictures :P | 08:33 |
| BuffaloSoldier | :) | 08:33 |
| jsgotangco | ok let's hire everaldo then | 08:33 |
| sabmoc | jsgotangco, so what dont you like about the computer? does it just look crappy, or doesnt match? what.. I need to know. | 08:34 |
| jsgotangco | desktop is so 90s | 08:34 |
| jsgotangco | :D | 08:34 |
| sabmoc | aww common | 08:35 |
| sabmoc | haha | 08:35 |
| jsgotangco | well ok make it an lcd monitor at least | 08:35 |
| jsgotangco | not a crt | 08:35 |
| sabmoc | I thought it was an lcd :P | 08:36 |
| sabmoc | but then again, the bagder looks like a raccoon | 08:36 |
| jsgotangco | ok i didnt look closer to the pic until i made it to a wallpaper | 08:37 |
| jsgotangco | thats a huge lcd for a laptop | 08:37 |
| jsgotangco | id love something like that | 08:37 |
| jsgotangco | hehe | 08:37 |
| sabmoc | so should I make the laptop smaller? | 08:38 |
| jsgotangco | well your lcd size should at least match with the keyboard/touchpad size | 08:38 |
| jsgotangco | and give the laptop some depth i guess | 08:39 |
| jsgotangco | it looks so thin! | 08:39 |
| sabmoc | ok, just a second | 08:39 |
| sabmoc | you mean the keyboard looks too thin, or the whole laptop? | 08:40 |
| jsgotangco | well the whole thing looks thin for me | 08:40 |
| sabmoc | ok | 08:40 |
| sabmoc | I'll fix it up right now | 08:41 |
| sabmoc | brb | 08:41 |
| sabmoc | to be honest I did the laptop really really quick :) so Im not surprised you dont like it | 08:41 |
| jsgotangco | make it a vaio or a dell | 08:42 |
| jsgotangco | haha | 08:42 |
| sabmoc | oh common, haha | 08:43 |
| BuffaloSoldier | guys, got to go.. take care | 08:52 |
| sabmoc | jsgotangco, ok, I just sent you another copy | 08:56 |
| jsgotangco | that was fast | 08:57 |
| === sabmoc wishes ubuntu had an art channel | ||
| sabmoc | well I didnt do much :P | 08:57 |
| jsgotangco | how about starting a wiki entry then | 08:57 |
| jsgotangco | you can start one yourself anyway | 08:58 |
| sabmoc | good idea, I've been thinking about it | 08:58 |
| jsgotangco | you might want to chat up with volvoguy | 08:58 |
| sabmoc | yeah but nobody would know about it | 08:58 |
| sabmoc | is he an artist? | 08:58 |
| jsgotangco | well | 08:58 |
| jsgotangco | advertise yourself then | 08:58 |
| jsgotangco | yeah | 08:58 |
| sabmoc | ok, you can be honest | 08:58 |
| sabmoc | does it still suck? | 08:58 |
| jsgotangco | this looks much better | 08:59 |
| jsgotangco | but it doesnt look like a laptop now | 08:59 |
| sabmoc | its a radioactive badger now | 08:59 |
| sabmoc | yes, now it looks like a flatscreen and keyboard | 08:59 |
| sabmoc | thats what I was originally intending | 08:59 |
| sabmoc | Im going to put two small buttons on the lcd screen | 09:00 |
| sabmoc | jsgotangco, any more suggestions? Im all ears :) | 09:01 |
| jsgotangco | change the box | 09:01 |
| jsgotangco | it looks radioactive | 09:01 |
| jsgotangco | hehe | 09:01 |
| sabmoc | hehe | 09:01 |
| sabmoc | ok | 09:01 |
| sabmoc | Im not so good will color composition | 09:02 |
| jsgotangco | that would do for starters i guess | 09:02 |
| sabmoc | as you can see! lol | 09:02 |
| sabmoc | well just tell me anything you can think of, changing the color of the box is quick and easy, ill do it right now | 09:02 |
| sabmoc | what about the badgers new color, is that better? | 09:02 |
| jsgotangco | ah its ok now after all i guess you are after a cartoon look right? | 09:03 |
| sabmoc | yeah | 09:03 |
| jsgotangco | when i was younger, i did draw toons but i ended up drawing more evil horned creatures rather than cute ones | 09:04 |
| sabmoc | haha | 09:04 |
| sabmoc | yeah, I used to draw lots of dragons and stuff | 09:04 |
| jsgotangco | good for you it was dragons | 09:04 |
| jsgotangco | mine was bipeds with horns and a tail | 09:04 |
| sabmoc | I drew some of those too | 09:05 |
| jsgotangco | well i did listen to heavy stuff back then | 09:05 |
| === Cturtle [~Cturtle__@82.161.239.194] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Kinnison | Morning | 09:24 |
| jsgotangco | hi | 09:24 |
| sabmoc | hello | 09:25 |
| sabmoc | jsgotangco, ping | 09:34 |
| jsgotangco | 1.38 | 09:34 |
| sabmoc | jsgotangco, I sent one with slighly saner colors | 09:41 |
| jsgotangco | blue is ok i just thought you changed that box to a table at least :D | 09:44 |
| sabmoc | dont like the box eh? | 09:45 |
| sabmoc | ok, but its so much easier than a table | 09:45 |
| jsgotangco | i know | 09:45 |
| jsgotangco | i mean | 09:46 |
| jsgotangco | i just felt you just put a box there to finish it | 09:46 |
| jsgotangco | hehe | 09:46 |
| sabmoc | I did :) | 09:46 |
| sabmoc | but then I kind of liked it | 09:46 |
| jsgotangco | its your call | 09:47 |
| sabmoc | I'll try a table | 09:47 |
| sabmoc | :) | 09:48 |
| jsgotangco | i know | 09:48 |
| jsgotangco | make it a glass table | 09:48 |
| jsgotangco | har har har | 09:48 |
| sabmoc | omg | 09:49 |
| sabmoc | i do a box, you suggest a glass table! lol | 09:49 |
| jsgotangco | or a table with a victorian accent | 09:50 |
| sabmoc | gah! | 09:53 |
| sabmoc | how about a box, and i'll put for skinny boxes under neath so they look like legs | 09:54 |
| sabmoc | s/for/four/ | 09:54 |
| jsgotangco | its still a box! | 09:55 |
| sabmoc | but.. but.. | 09:56 |
| jsgotangco | do you use a box to put your PC on top? | 10:00 |
| sabmoc | yes | 10:00 |
| jsgotangco | suuureee | 10:00 |
| sabmoc | I think i'll just fix the monitor and send it in.. I have to start doing some real work | 10:05 |
| jsgotangco | have you seen the entries of other participants? | 10:08 |
| sabmoc | jsgotangco, ping | 10:38 |
| sabmoc | no maybe Im the only one | 10:38 |
| sabmoc | haha | 10:38 |
| sabmoc | lets hope not | 10:38 |
| sabmoc | want to see the final draft? | 10:38 |
| sabmoc | of course you do :D | 10:39 |
| jsgotangco | i do? | 10:40 |
| sabmoc | yep | 10:41 |
| sabmoc | I made a glass table | 10:41 |
| sabmoc | it is inside the box | 10:42 |
| jsgotangco | haha | 10:43 |
| jsgotangco | well that shadow did make a difference you know | 10:43 |
| sabmoc | :) | 10:46 |
| sabmoc | a good difference I hope! | 10:47 |
| sabmoc | but I already changed, it, the mouth looked a bit funny, its cleaned now in my copy | 10:47 |
| jsgotangco | your box is off a little bit in the dimensions department | 10:47 |
| sabmoc | yeah, and the shading isnt right either | 10:49 |
| sabmoc | I'll adjust the box dimensions and the shade but im not making it a table, too much work :P | 10:49 |
| jsgotangco | hehe | 10:51 |
| jsgotangco | gee | 10:51 |
| jsgotangco | its almost 6pm here but the sun is still up | 10:51 |
| sabmoc | ah, those wonderful days | 10:52 |
| jsgotangco | i guess summer is really here then | 10:53 |
| === cc [~cc@byte.fedora] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| sabmoc | jsgotangco, you're going to hate me | 11:08 |
| sabmoc | haha | 11:08 |
| jsgotangco | haha | 11:15 |
| jsgotangco | what is this | 11:15 |
| sabmoc | what? nothing! | 11:16 |
| sabmoc | haha | 11:16 |
| sabmoc | its a badger | 11:16 |
| sabmoc | the box still needs to be tweeked a bit | 11:17 |
| jsgotangco | i know | 11:17 |
| jsgotangco | i dont see any difference | 11:17 |
| jsgotangco | youre messing up my wallpaper | 11:17 |
| jsgotangco | haha | 11:17 |
| jsgotangco | hmm | 11:17 |
| sabmoc | haha | 11:17 |
| jsgotangco | i got another email from canonical | 11:17 |
| jsgotangco | about the conference | 11:17 |
| === sabmoc feels so left out | ||
| jsgotangco | awww | 11:18 |
| jsgotangco | i just got lucky i got it | 11:18 |
| jsgotangco | after the holidays this week, i gotta fix my papers already | 11:18 |
| Burgundavia | lucky man | 11:19 |
| Burgundavia | I went to Mataro partially on my own money | 11:19 |
| jsgotangco | how is it like? | 11:19 |
| jsgotangco | i mean meeting up with these guys | 11:20 |
| Burgundavia | really really cool | 11:20 |
| Burgundavia | I saw a quote in lwn that said "You couldn't tell the difference between the canonical people and not", and that was true | 11:20 |
| jsgotangco | really | 11:20 |
| Burgundavia | almost half the people there were canonical | 11:21 |
| Burgundavia | most of the rest sponsored | 11:21 |
| jsgotangco | it would be my first time to attend such an event actually, ive been limited to mostly local linux events | 11:21 |
| Burgundavia | there was a a rocking atmosphere | 11:21 |
| jsgotangco | so im kind of jittery | 11:21 |
| jsgotangco | i dont know what to expect | 11:21 |
| Burgundavia | I should have applied for money | 11:21 |
| Burgundavia | I probably would have got some | 11:21 |
| jsgotangco | i mean | 11:22 |
| jsgotangco | they opened up sponsorship for those in the immediate area | 11:22 |
| jsgotangco | i took the chance of applying | 11:22 |
| Kinnison | burger! | 11:22 |
| jsgotangco | i was never expecting it | 11:23 |
| jsgotangco | till mako emailed me a week ago | 11:23 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison: hello | 11:23 |
| === Kinnison ruffles Burgundavia | ||
| Burgundavia | Kinnison: think there is still a chance I can get some money? | 11:23 |
| Kinnison | Burgundavia: Dunno; you can try | 11:23 |
| jsgotangco | money? | 11:23 |
| Burgundavia | jsgotangco: you are getting sponsored to go right? | 11:24 |
| Burgundavia | money from Canonical | 11:24 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison works for them | 11:24 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 11:24 |
| jsgotangco | is that so? | 11:25 |
| jsgotangco | i got an email from the travel agent | 11:25 |
| jsgotangco | he told me he can only fly me on the 23rd | 11:25 |
| jsgotangco | that gives me a whole day of doing nothing in sydney | 11:25 |
| jsgotangco | via Quantas | 11:25 |
| === Kinnison arrives at 0615 on the 24th | ||
| jsgotangco | but im coming from manila | 11:26 |
| Kinnison | jsgotangco: direct, or via HK or singapore? | 11:27 |
| jsgotangco | direct | 11:27 |
| Burgundavia | ah, the wonders of flying from UK --> Aus | 11:27 |
| jsgotangco | Kinnison: it would be direct | 11:28 |
| jsgotangco | Claire emailed me just now | 11:28 |
| Kinnison | jsgotangco: coo | 11:28 |
| jsgotangco | but i asked her if its ok for me to arrive a day earlier | 11:28 |
| === Kinnison bounces via HK | ||
| jsgotangco | and leave a day later | 11:29 |
| jsgotangco | because thats the only schedule that Edward can get | 11:29 |
| jsgotangco | what he got was arrive 23 April and leave 02 May | 11:29 |
| jsgotangco | which gives me 2 extra days in sydney | 11:31 |
| jsgotangco | :( | 11:31 |
| Kinnison | Yeah; I'm doing arrive 24th leave 1st | 11:31 |
| jsgotangco | ok claire was quick | 11:32 |
| jsgotangco | she said it was ok | 11:32 |
| sabmoc | you guys are so lucky | 11:34 |
| jsgotangco | looks like im staying a day later hehe | 11:34 |
| Kinnison | Burgundavia: you gonna ask; in case? | 11:35 |
| sabmoc | I would sell my mother... | 11:35 |
| sabmoc | haha | 11:35 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison: already did | 11:35 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison: I would love to be the photographer | 11:35 |
| === Kinnison shakes his head | ||
| Kinnison | You sir are very confusing | 11:40 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison: what is command to search all the packages for a specific file? | 11:40 |
| Kinnison | Burgundavia: installed or everything? | 11:41 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison: installed | 11:43 |
| Kinnison | dpkg -S path | 11:43 |
| Kinnison | E.g. dpkg -S bin/ls | 11:43 |
| Burgundavia | thanks | 11:43 |
| Burgundavia | I was drawing a blank | 11:43 |
| === Kinnison recommends drawing a pint | ||
| Burgundavia | I wouldn't mind a pint | 11:45 |
| Burgundavia | but all the bars close in 15 | 11:45 |
| Kinnison | run. run like the wind | 11:45 |
| Burgundavia | 20 minutes by car? | 11:45 |
| jsgotangco | Claire is efficient | 11:47 |
| === jsgotangco is impressed at Canonical staff | ||
| Kinnison | Burgundavia: sux2bU | 11:48 |
| Burgundavia | indeed | 11:48 |
| === Kinnison 's closest pub is 3 minutes on foot at walking pace | ||
| Kinnison | Less probably | 11:48 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison, you live in a small english village | 11:48 |
| Burgundavia | I live in a city of 3/4 million | 11:49 |
| Kinnison | In fact; if it weren't for that house there *points* I'd be able to see the pub from here | 11:49 |
| Kinnison | Burgundavia: and I love my village life | 11:49 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 11:49 |
| Burgundavia | there are good points | 11:49 |
| Burgundavia | debian packaging is driving me mad! | 11:50 |
| jsgotangco | ok i'll catch you guys later im going home first and get my passport | 11:50 |
| Burgundavia | there are at least 4 ways of doing everything | 11:50 |
| jsgotangco | bye bye god bless | 11:50 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison: rasputin@Burgundavia:~/Builds/gnome-system-tools/gnome-system-tools-1.2.0/src/network $ cat TODO | 11:52 |
| Burgundavia | - update user docs | 11:52 |
| Burgundavia | - drink some beer | 11:52 |
| Kinnison | heh | 11:54 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison: programming question | 11:55 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison: a file refers to @pixmaps@ | 11:55 |
| Burgundavia | where would I find the setting for this variable? | 11:55 |
| Burgundavia | assuming it is not in the file itself | 11:55 |
| Kinnison | It'll be a .in ? | 11:56 |
| Burgundavia | yes | 11:56 |
| Kinnison | That will be a variable substituted by configure | 11:56 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 11:57 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 11:57 |
| Burgundavia | thanks | 11:57 |
| Kinnison | you can look in configure.{ac,in} to see if it's any clearer | 11:57 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 11:57 |
| sabmoc | Burgundavia, any chance I can mail you my gpg key and get you to sign it? | 12:07 |
| sabmoc | or however that tricky process goes | 12:07 |
| Burgundavia | sabmoc: Usually, signing keys in as in person thing | 12:09 |
| Burgundavia | sabmoc: as, how do I know it is you | 12:09 |
| Burgundavia | sabmoc: people bring keys and id | 12:09 |
| Kinnison | sabmoc: if anyone will sign your key without meeting you physically then let me know so I can mark their key as explicitly distrusted in my trust database | 12:11 |
| Kinnison | sabmoc: to sign without verifying identity is a very very irresponsible thing to do which weakens the web of trust | 12:12 |
| Kinnison | It also devalues GPG signatures for those of us who take it seriously | 12:12 |
| Kinnison | </rant> | 12:12 |
| Burgundavia | as he said | 12:13 |
| sabmoc | eep | 12:13 |
| sabmoc | ok | 12:13 |
| Burgundavia | usually, key signings are held at conferences | 12:14 |
| sabmoc | Kinnison, sorry, but Burgundavia lives close to me and actually I was hoping to meet him so that we could exchange keys and beer, which I still plan to do, so I wasnt trying to do anything tricky by asking to mail them to me. | 12:14 |
| sabmoc | but you're right, it would be a security breach | 12:15 |
| Kinnison | Also; rather than mailing your key around; you put it on the keyservers | 12:15 |
| Kinnison | so that they are publically available | 12:16 |
| sabmoc | I have mine on biglumber.com | 12:16 |
| Kinnison | biglumber is crap | 12:16 |
| sabmoc | oh :( | 12:16 |
| Kinnison | gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --send-keys mykeyid | 12:16 |
| Kinnison | (sorry, my biglumber opinion is my own and should be taken with a pinch of salt) | 12:16 |
| Burgundavia | bah | 12:17 |
| sabmoc | Im not a security buff so I'll just take your word for it | 12:17 |
| Burgundavia | linuxfest northwest and ubu are on the same time | 12:17 |
| sabmoc | Kinnison, gpg: success sending to `subkeys.pgp.net' (status=200) | 12:18 |
| === sabmoc needs to get out more | ||
| Kinnison | Burgundavia: ubu? | 12:20 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison: Ubuntudownunder | 12:21 |
| Burgundavia | lfnw is april 30 | 12:22 |
| Kinnison | Burgundavia: oh u*d*u | 12:23 |
| Burgundavia | yah | 12:24 |
| Burgundavia | is 3:30 here | 12:24 |
| Burgundavia | am that is | 12:24 |
| Kinnison | Dude. Go to bed. Reset your body clock | 12:26 |
| Burgundavia | I mostly have | 12:28 |
| Burgundavia | I find it is better to stay up | 12:28 |
| Burgundavia | then go to bed at a normal time tomorrow | 12:28 |
| Kinnison | s'not good for you | 12:30 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison: ? | 12:42 |
| Kinnison | ? | 12:43 |
| Burgundavia | is a line added to debian/install good enough to get a file installed? | 12:43 |
| Burgundavia | this is talking about a .desktop file | 12:43 |
| Burgundavia | so the dir already exists | 12:43 |
| Kinnison | yep | 12:46 |
| Kinnison | I think | 12:47 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 12:47 |
| Burgundavia | that makes my life easy | 12:47 |
| Kinnison | test it though :-) | 12:47 |
| Burgundavia | oh I will | 12:48 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison: got a question about changing source | 01:07 |
| Kinnison | mmm? | 01:12 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 01:14 |
| Burgundavia | so I want to install a .desktop file that installs it's xpm in /usr/share/pixmaps | 01:14 |
| Burgundavia | however, the program itself references this file for its window | 01:14 |
| Burgundavia | should I change the source to make it look in pixmaps? | 01:14 |
| Burgundavia | is that kosher? | 01:15 |
| Kinnison | tbh I'd change the .desktop file | 01:15 |
| Burgundavia | ok, but the general theme is to avoid absolute paths in .desktop files | 01:16 |
| Burgundavia | makes the whole changing icon for them thing a little harder | 01:16 |
| Kinnison | aah | 01:17 |
| Kinnison | Hmm | 01:17 |
| Kinnison | install a symbolic link? | 01:17 |
| Burgundavia | ah | 01:17 |
| Burgundavia | there doesn't seem to be any symbolic links in pixmaps | 01:17 |
| Burgundavia | nope, none | 01:17 |
| Kinnison | tbh without seeing the specific example I'm not sure what to recommend | 01:18 |
| Burgundavia | ya | 01:18 |
| Burgundavia | it is pretty easy to change it in the source, but I wondered about how kosher that was | 01:18 |
| Burgundavia | just a one line change | 01:18 |
| Kinnison | I'd probably go for that one line change then | 01:20 |
| Kinnison | it'll be easy to revert if you come up with a better way | 01:20 |
| Burgundavia | is it good programming to have your program reaching out to look for a file in this common dir? | 01:20 |
| Kinnison | Seems reasonable to me | 01:22 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 01:23 |
| === BuffaloSoldier [~user@218.111.150.119] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === Burgundavia [~Burgundav@S0106000bdbb5820d.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === jsgotangco [DaWorm@198-nas1.dial-pool.digitelone.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | greetings | 02:19 |
| Burgundavia | salut | 02:27 |
| EricNeon | beygo home | 02:27 |
| jsgotangco | salut | 02:40 |
| jsgotangco | bye bye | 03:09 |
| Burgundavia | cya | 03:10 |
| === BuffaloSoldier [~user@218.111.150.119] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] | ||
| === jsgotangco [DaWorm@33-nas1.dial-pool.digitelone.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jsgotangco | can i ask a dumb question? | 04:45 |
| Burgundavia | yes | 04:46 |
| jsgotangco | i have no idea how to do this because i use Email certs but what is a GPG key? | 04:46 |
| Burgundavia | a gpg key is public/private key pair that you use to sign things to prove it is you | 04:47 |
| Burgundavia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPG | 04:47 |
| jsgotangco | is that similar to an email certificate? | 04:47 |
| Burgundavia | what does email certs do? | 04:47 |
| jsgotangco | well it signs/encrypts email | 04:48 |
| jsgotangco | proves that its you | 04:48 |
| Burgundavia | gpg key is similar | 04:48 |
| Kinnison | Email certificates (x509 ones normally) are similar in concept to SSL certificates. They're used to authenticate and to encrypt | 04:48 |
| Burgundavia | you can also use gpg keys to sign archives, like svn and baz | 04:48 |
| Kinnison | GPG keys are a generalisation of this | 04:48 |
| Burgundavia | thanks Kinnison | 04:48 |
| jsgotangco | ok is this like the old pgp | 04:48 |
| Burgundavia | yes | 04:49 |
| Kinnison | Indeed; GPG is an implementation of the OpenPGP standard | 04:49 |
| jsgotangco | ok then i have an idea what Matthias wants | 04:49 |
| Burgundavia | once you generate a key, expect to use it for a long while | 04:50 |
| Kinnison | Indeed. GPG keys are meant to be very long-lived | 04:50 |
| Burgundavia | in otherwords, keep it somewhere safe | 04:50 |
| Kinnison | mine is almost five years old and is a baby key by some people's standards | 04:50 |
| Burgundavia | windows boxen are usally not high on the list | 04:51 |
| === Kinnison keeps his on a USB keyfob for example | ||
| jsgotangco | ill do that as well | 04:51 |
| === Burgundavia knows that his keyfob goes everywhere with Kinnison | ||
| jsgotangco | ok here's another | 04:52 |
| Kinnison | Burgundavia: not *everywhere* | 04:52 |
| jsgotangco | whats an SSH public key? | 04:52 |
| Kinnison | it's not waterproof | 04:52 |
| Kinnison | SSH keys are a method of automatically identifying you during a secure-shell transaction | 04:52 |
| Kinnison | they're typically used to allow you to log into another system without needing to use a passphrase | 04:52 |
| jsgotangco | how do i generate that? | 04:52 |
| Kinnison | you say 'ssh-keygen -t dsa' or 'ssh-keygen -t rsa' | 04:53 |
| === Kinnison prefers dsa; some prefer rsa | ||
| jsgotangco | what do we usually use? | 04:53 |
| Kinnison | then it will create ~/.ssh/id_[dr] sa.pub which is the public key component; and ~/.ssh/id_[dr] sa which is the private component | 04:53 |
| Kinnison | again; it's important to keep the private components safe. Mine are on my keyfob too. | 04:54 |
| jsgotangco | that was fast, like talking to a bot lol | 04:54 |
| === Kinnison smiles | ||
| Kinnison | Someone should add this to some FAQ pages on the ubuntu wiki | 04:54 |
| === Burgundavia hides | ||
| Kinnison | burgey! You'll do it for me? *mwah* | 04:54 |
| jsgotangco | i'll do it after some research | 04:54 |
| Burgundavia | no | 04:54 |
| Burgundavia | I won't | 04:54 |
| Burgundavia | never | 04:55 |
| Burgundavia | ah maybe just a little | 04:55 |
| Burgundavia | but I hate the wiki | 04:55 |
| Burgundavia | I really do | 04:55 |
| jsgotangco | or just post this log | 04:55 |
| Kinnison | I hatesses it more | 04:55 |
| jsgotangco | why not? | 04:55 |
| jsgotangco | i like the wiki | 04:55 |
| jsgotangco | its a bit messed up though | 04:55 |
| Burgundavia | I like wikis, just not ours | 04:55 |
| Kinnison | same here. | 04:56 |
| Kinnison | It was much better when it was moinmoin | 04:56 |
| Kinnison | But zwiki lets us integrate the searching in with the rest of the site | 04:56 |
| Burgundavia | something other than this, please | 04:56 |
| Burgundavia | yes, that is cool about zwiki | 04:56 |
| Burgundavia | it just needs a whole pile more features | 04:56 |
| jsgotangco | how come we intend to standardise on moin then | 04:56 |
| Burgundavia | moinmoin is a wiki | 04:57 |
| Burgundavia | moin is a markup style that came from former | 04:57 |
| jsgotangco | yes so i read | 04:57 |
| Kinnison | So we're standardising on moin markup in zwiki y'see | 04:58 |
| Burgundavia | yes, as he said | 04:59 |
| jsgotangco | wait, what do i need to do this ssh public key and the gpg key? | 04:59 |
| Kinnison | Commonly you give the ssh public key to someone who is setting up an account for you on a computer | 05:04 |
| jsgotangco | ok i think i get it now i can sleep soundly before i leave tommorow for boracay | 05:07 |
| === cc [~cc@byte.fedora] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === enrico_ [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Burgundavia | salut enrico | 06:44 |
| enrico | Hi! | 06:44 |
| === abelli [~user@a71843ed518fb35f.node.tor] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| abelli | bonne soir | 06:45 |
| enrico | abelli: bonne soir | 06:45 |
| === enrico is going | ||
| === cc [~cc@byte.fedora] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Kinnison | ciao abelli | 07:08 |
| abelli | Kinnison: ciao Danielone | 07:22 |
| === maskie [~maskie@196-30-109-131.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === jjesse [~jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| === sm wears his survey hat | ||
| sm | hello Burgundavia, what are the top 3 problems with the wiki ? | 08:31 |
| Burgundavia | parenting | 08:31 |
| Burgundavia | inflexible | 08:31 |
| Burgundavia | ie. parenting is inflexible | 08:31 |
| sm | how so | 08:31 |
| Burgundavia | one page one parent | 08:31 |
| Burgundavia | one page can and should belong to multiple groups/categories/parents | 08:32 |
| Burgundavia | ie | 08:32 |
| Burgundavia | a howto | 08:32 |
| Burgundavia | is both a howto | 08:32 |
| Burgundavia | and possibly documentation in progress | 08:32 |
| Burgundavia | sm: might I ask who you are? | 08:32 |
| sm | sure, I'm Simon, one of the volunteers with ubunti wiki admin access, and zwiki author | 08:33 |
| sm | hi | 08:33 |
| sm | pages can have multiple parents | 08:33 |
| Burgundavia | ah | 08:33 |
| sm | I think people are seeing the reparent form at the bottom of the page, but not the reparent form in backlinks (when you click title) | 08:34 |
| sm | and certainly not the zwiki docs, god help us :) | 08:34 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 08:35 |
| Burgundavia | I would then say, those need to be merged | 08:35 |
| Burgundavia | a more flexible method of parenting editing | 08:35 |
| Burgundavia | move that stuff to the main page | 08:36 |
| Burgundavia | part of having 2 parents is visually showing that | 08:36 |
| Burgundavia | currently it shows one | 08:36 |
| sm | really ? only one appears above the title ? | 08:36 |
| Burgundavia | currently yes | 08:36 |
| sm | ah, I think that might be a bug with the zwiki_plone skin | 08:37 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 08:37 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 08:37 |
| sm | if you alt =, it should show both | 08:37 |
| sm | do you have the name of a page with two, I'll check | 08:37 |
| Burgundavia | just a sec and I will find one | 08:38 |
| sm | http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WikiTips tells more about alt = | 08:38 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 08:39 |
| Burgundavia | sounds good | 08:39 |
| Burgundavia | related to that | 08:39 |
| Burgundavia | the lots of little globe gives me the sense that there are lots of directories/pages above me | 08:39 |
| Burgundavia | but that may be a ubuntu wiki specific thing | 08:40 |
| sm | that is an old plone css + firefox display bug, I think | 08:41 |
| sm | I see it often, but I'm not sure how to reproduce | 08:41 |
| Burgundavia | I see it on every page | 08:42 |
| Burgundavia | next topic of dislike | 08:42 |
| Burgundavia | history | 08:42 |
| Burgundavia | compare and contrast: | 08:42 |
| Burgundavia | http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Beijing_Capital_International_Airport&curid=291328&action=history | 08:42 |
| Burgundavia | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WikiTips/diff | 08:42 |
| sm | ok.. yes, our diff display is primitive and needs some love | 08:43 |
| sm | noted | 08:43 |
| Burgundavia | related to that | 08:43 |
| Burgundavia | quickrevert | 08:43 |
| === sm likes trac's | ||
| Burgundavia | you don't see it on that, but admins on WP have a little button that reverts the last entry to the 2nd to last | 08:44 |
| sm | we have that, no ? | 08:44 |
| sm | oh, not enabled on ubuntu wiki | 08:45 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 08:45 |
| sm | do you mean like revert all successive.. at http://zwiki.org/TestPage/diff ? | 08:45 |
| Burgundavia | no, it reverts the last change | 08:45 |
| Burgundavia | it would be up with history and backlinks | 08:45 |
| Burgundavia | very fast button | 08:46 |
| sm | I try to reduce ui clutter, so we have always had it in the diff form | 08:47 |
| sm | do you think all ubuntu wiki pages should have this, accessible to any member ? and right on the page ? | 08:47 |
| Burgundavia | this would only appear for certain people when they are logged in | 08:47 |
| Burgundavia | there is a lot of dead space that is wasted on the wiki, IMHO | 08:49 |
| Burgundavia | especially vertically | 08:49 |
| sm | I agree | 08:49 |
| sm | that's why I always switch to the non-plone skin | 08:50 |
| Burgundavia | but we need to fix the default | 08:50 |
| Burgundavia | side bars are great | 08:50 |
| sm | you like those eh | 08:50 |
| sm | bah | 08:50 |
| Burgundavia | nearly every website does them because they work | 08:50 |
| === sm likes *all* the space for content :) | ||
| Burgundavia | you just have to do them right | 08:50 |
| sm | yes | 08:51 |
| Burgundavia | I personally happen to like the WP layout | 08:51 |
| Burgundavia | I find it is clean and functional | 08:51 |
| sm | what would you do to the default (plone) wiki skin to make it better ? | 08:51 |
| sm | space-wise ? | 08:51 |
| Burgundavia | merge the 2 tabs | 08:51 |
| Burgundavia | possibly place the 1st row of tabs in a sidbar? | 08:52 |
| Burgundavia | remove the gap between the bottom of the 1st row of tabs and the 2nd | 08:52 |
| Burgundavia | generally cut the blank space down to a minimum | 08:52 |
| Burgundavia | you can do that without getting crowded | 08:53 |
| sm | ok, that's changing the standard plone layout | 08:55 |
| Burgundavia | that is fine | 08:55 |
| sm | which I have no problem with, but I basically only have authority to change stuff inside the brown box, if that | 08:55 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 08:55 |
| sm | I know ubuntu recently held a redesign contents for the overall plone skin | 08:55 |
| sm | did you see ? | 08:55 |
| Burgundavia | well, inside the wiki itself is not the issue | 08:55 |
| sm | (contest) | 08:55 |
| Burgundavia | yes I saw it | 08:55 |
| Burgundavia | I saw pretty stuff and very little in the way of spacing decisions | 08:56 |
| Burgundavia | I am holding my breath | 08:56 |
| Burgundavia | not that I object to pretty stuff | 08:56 |
| sm | there's no webmaster right now, afaik | 08:56 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 08:56 |
| sm | which makes progress kind of slow :/ | 08:56 |
| Burgundavia | some minor points | 08:56 |
| Burgundavia | watchlists --> think subscribe, but within the wiki | 08:56 |
| Burgundavia | really really useful | 08:57 |
| sm | showing pages changed since last visit in recent changes ? | 08:57 |
| Burgundavia | watchlists shows a subsection choosen by you | 08:57 |
| sm | oh | 08:57 |
| Burgundavia | you watch/subscribe to them | 08:57 |
| sm | recent changes for a subset of pages | 08:58 |
| Burgundavia | yes | 08:58 |
| Burgundavia | then it is on one page, and you view at your leisure | 08:58 |
| Burgundavia | if you can tie that in with email for those who want, great | 08:58 |
| Burgundavia | even better, and very blue sky,would be rss feeds | 08:59 |
| sm | well, we have experimental rss feeds in WikiWishlist | 08:59 |
| sm | and we have email subscription to pages of your choice | 08:59 |
| Burgundavia | cool | 08:59 |
| Burgundavia | if you could unify the concept, that would be cool | 08:59 |
| sm | but we don't have a recent changes listing of pages of your choice.. noted | 08:59 |
| Burgundavia | basically make it one big list, viewed however you want | 09:00 |
| sm | people say it's useful, so it must not be just featuritis.. right ? | 09:00 |
| Burgundavia | really easy to administer and think about | 09:00 |
| Burgundavia | this isn;t a new feature, just extending an old one | 09:00 |
| sm | I try to work on the stuff 80% of users will use | 09:00 |
| Burgundavia | and the 10 largest wikis in the world use it | 09:00 |
| sm | really ? | 09:00 |
| Burgundavia | all of WP uses watchlist | 09:00 |
| Burgundavia | have you looked at Mediawiki? | 09:01 |
| sm | yes, periodically | 09:01 |
| sm | I find their recent changes over-confusing for most sues | 09:01 |
| sm | uses | 09:01 |
| sm | but I'll look at their watchlists again | 09:01 |
| Burgundavia | most people use watchlists | 09:01 |
| Burgundavia | you will need to create an account | 09:01 |
| Burgundavia | watchlists are private to the specific account | 09:01 |
| Burgundavia | on the parenting/categories thing, have you seen categories in wp? | 09:02 |
| Burgundavia | I like the idea, but there are some limitations | 09:02 |
| Burgundavia | like being able to sort the category the way you want it | 09:02 |
| Burgundavia | either by the user on the fly | 09:02 |
| Burgundavia | or the editor beforehand | 09:02 |
| sm | ? | 09:03 |
| === skyrider [~skyrider@195.128.178.150] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| sm | limitations of wp's categories ? | 09:03 |
| Burgundavia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Airports | 09:03 |
| Burgundavia | sorted purely by alphabetically order | 09:03 |
| sm | ah yes | 09:04 |
| Burgundavia | this is very blue sky of course, but meta data to sort by | 09:04 |
| sm | and it knows what's in what category because of the Category: pagename tag in the text ? | 09:04 |
| Burgundavia | generally, what wikis really really need is easy ways of sorting data | 09:04 |
| sm | just like WikiBadges | 09:05 |
| sm | we do that | 09:05 |
| Burgundavia | categories are added to pages | 09:05 |
| Burgundavia | [[Cateogry:foo] ] | 09:05 |
| Burgundavia | comme ca | 09:05 |
| sm | yes | 09:05 |
| Burgundavia | like any other link | 09:05 |
| Burgundavia | oh, that brings me to interlang stuff | 09:05 |
| sm | http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiBadge | 09:05 |
| sm | ubuntu wiki can do that of course, except, to get a nice in-page listing like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Airports requires dtml enabled, which isn't allowed | 09:06 |
| sm | but there is a plan to enable safe moin-style scripting which will enable it again | 09:06 |
| Burgundavia | actually, the page listing is generated by a php script doing a database query | 09:07 |
| sm | oh.. not a wiki page | 09:07 |
| sm | ok that's easy | 09:07 |
| Burgundavia | the page itself is a wiki, but go and edit that airport category | 09:07 |
| Burgundavia | take a look | 09:07 |
| sm | if people want to put category markers on pages, I can add the index | 09:07 |
| sm | but using hierarchy seems easier so far | 09:07 |
| Burgundavia | but we need either parenting or categoires | 09:08 |
| Burgundavia | not both | 09:08 |
| Burgundavia | can we fold the 2 concepts into one/ | 09:08 |
| Burgundavia | ? | 09:08 |
| sm | possibly | 09:08 |
| Burgundavia | they are both trying to solve the same high-level problem | 09:09 |
| sm | first, I tend to use parenting as the primary organizer, because it's quicker, and occasionally still use wikibadges/category markers for cross-cutting categorization | 09:09 |
| sm | second: http://zwiki.d2m.at/ZPT/FrontPage seems possible to be a way to unify the two | 09:10 |
| sm | (facets) | 09:10 |
| Burgundavia | what are the primary advantages of having parentage that is not covered by categories | 09:10 |
| === Kinnison [~dsilvers@haddenham.pepperfish.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Burgundavia | facets, uh no | 09:10 |
| Burgundavia | way too busy | 09:11 |
| sm | disregard that ui | 09:11 |
| sm | but back to the present - advantages of parenting vs. categories ? | 09:11 |
| sm | you can theory represent that same parent hierarchy using just category markers | 09:12 |
| sm | if you work very hard at keeping it consistent | 09:13 |
| Burgundavia | yes | 09:13 |
| Burgundavia | all wikis tend to chaos at the edges | 09:13 |
| sm | because hierarchical organization is so familiar to us, I find it's good to have it built in and let the software do more of the work | 09:13 |
| sm | it's a (entirely optional) way to bring some order to the traditional wiki soup | 09:14 |
| skyrider | Hey guys! Few minutes ago I've looked at https://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/local page and I saw completely screwed russian letters in "Russian" section of that page. When I looked at that page last time (about a month ago) - everything was fine. Can you somehow fix it? I can't fix it because I don't have enough permissions on site. Can somebody fix Russian text or maybe somebody can give me access for modification of that page and I'll fix that my | 09:14 |
| sm | I haven't seen category markers do that quite so well, though wikipedia's are good | 09:15 |
| Burgundavia | well, if we are hosting docs out of it, we need somethingmore akin to WP that c2 | 09:15 |
| Burgundavia | sm: There was a lot of talk about WP's categories and how to do them | 09:15 |
| Burgundavia | the advantage we have is we can impose order on the wiki | 09:16 |
| Burgundavia | WP anarchy you cannot impose order very easily | 09:16 |
| skyrider | sivang: alive? | 09:16 |
| Burgundavia | unless you do as I do with airports which is simply be the first with the plan | 09:16 |
| Burgundavia | we can say | 09:16 |
| Burgundavia | all howtos under howtos | 09:16 |
| Burgundavia | and all gnome under gnome | 09:16 |
| Burgundavia | etc. | 09:16 |
| sm | the parenting feature is really equivalent to having a ParentCategory: parentpages on every page | 09:17 |
| Burgundavia | to be honest | 09:17 |
| sm | but it's moved out of the page body, into the ui, and is more convenient to manage | 09:17 |
| sm | imho | 09:17 |
| Burgundavia | yes, that is where WP falls down | 09:17 |
| Burgundavia | but it doesn't have to be that way | 09:17 |
| Burgundavia | it can easily be categories in the ui | 09:18 |
| Burgundavia | but don't make it an extra click if at all possible | 09:18 |
| Burgundavia | that is what is so horrid about the history | 09:18 |
| Burgundavia | the sheer cost of the clicks to view everything | 09:18 |
| sm | can you just clarify that last point.. where are there too many clicks to view a zwiki page's history ? | 09:20 |
| Burgundavia | to go back in the history "costs" me a click for each edit | 09:20 |
| Burgundavia | you will notice, if you spend any time with me, is I talk a lot about "cost of clicks" and how to reduce them | 09:21 |
| sm | I definitely relate to that | 09:21 |
| Burgundavia | or time costs in general, for that matter | 09:21 |
| sm | I started zwiki because I didn't like the extra click to add a comment on c2 :) | 09:22 |
| sm | slow machine, etc. | 09:22 |
| Burgundavia | another big then in wp | 09:22 |
| Burgundavia | seperation of content and chatter | 09:22 |
| Burgundavia | via talk pages | 09:22 |
| sm | I have gone back and forth on that | 09:22 |
| Burgundavia | this is one of the key things that is needed for presentation stuff | 09:22 |
| sm | I see it works for wp | 09:22 |
| Burgundavia | for presentation stuff, it is needed | 09:22 |
| Burgundavia | for other stuff, not so much | 09:23 |
| sm | ok I see what you mean about wp, it lists the diffs | 09:24 |
| Burgundavia | hmm | 09:24 |
| Burgundavia | blue sky, but a dhtml foo thing there would be killer | 09:25 |
| sm | ? | 09:25 |
| Burgundavia | for the diffs, to reduce the cost of the clicks | 09:25 |
| Burgundavia | but that is very blue sky | 09:25 |
| sm | ah | 09:26 |
| sm | would be great, but not priority for me | 09:26 |
| sm | I'm nailing down core stuff this year | 09:27 |
| Burgundavia | ya | 09:27 |
| sm | "no new features!" :) | 09:27 |
| Burgundavia | blue sky is great to think about though | 09:27 |
| Burgundavia | anyway | 09:27 |
| sm | definitely | 09:27 |
| sm | well I'd better wind down here.. thanks for this input | 09:27 |
| Burgundavia | get rid of camel case | 09:27 |
| sm | it's an option | 09:27 |
| Burgundavia | looks better, IMHO | 09:27 |
| sm | if you want to raise any of these thing on one of the lists to get wider consensus, that would be good | 09:27 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 09:28 |
| Burgundavia | not really a priority until post hoary though | 09:28 |
| sm | I can change a lot of stuff if I get approval from the community | 09:28 |
| sm | ok | 09:28 |
| sm | are you working on that ? | 09:28 |
| Burgundavia | hoary? | 09:28 |
| sm | yes | 09:28 |
| Burgundavia | packaging with MOTU and docs | 09:28 |
| sm | great | 09:28 |
| Burgundavia | talk again soon | 09:29 |
| Burgundavia | it was good to talk about this with someone | 09:29 |
| sm | likewise, see you | 09:31 |
| sm | hy skyrider | 09:42 |
| skyrider | sm: hi | 09:42 |
| sm | I don't have authority to give you access, but maybe I can fix it | 09:42 |
| sm | see if you can paste the letters here, or will gaim mangle them.. | 09:43 |
| sm | what should be after #ubuntu-ru ? | 09:43 |
| sm | I see: 2 A5B8 | 09:43 |
| skyrider | sm: I'll write small html page with all russian text. | 09:44 |
| skyrider | sm: all those 2 A5B8 is complete garbage :( | 09:44 |
| sm | ok.. if you paste at http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/SandBox I can paste it into the support page | 09:44 |
| sm | or anywhere | 09:44 |
| skyrider | sm: ok | 09:45 |
| === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Burgundavia | enrico: read backlog for wiki discussion with sm | 10:00 |
| enrico | Burgundavia: I don't have backlog. Trying with the irclog.workaround.org | 10:06 |
| enrico | Would you like opinions on something specific? | 10:07 |
| Burgundavia | nope, just letting you know | 10:07 |
| enrico | ok, thanks! | 10:08 |
| sm | I added a summary of issues to WikiWishlist | 10:08 |
| sm | quick one enrico: can we enable revert button for all logged in members ? | 10:08 |
| sm | Burgundavia: why do you need that anyway ? | 10:08 |
| sm | I only use it for undoing spam | 10:08 |
| enrico | sm: I see no problems in giving freedom to wiki users | 10:09 |
| enrico | sm: what would that be needed for? | 10:10 |
| === sm looks at Burgundavia | ||
| sm | well if there's no problem, I'll just enable it | 10:10 |
| sm | it's a standard feature | 10:10 |
| Burgundavia | sm: for quick revert of vandals | 10:10 |
| enrico | Burgundavia: do we have vandals? | 10:11 |
| sm | we don't really have vandals though, do we ? | 10:11 |
| Burgundavia | we will | 10:11 |
| Burgundavia | all wikis do | 10:11 |
| sm | but this is members-only | 10:11 |
| sm | alas | 10:11 |
| sm | which so far seems to prevent it | 10:11 |
| sm | but why not enable it | 10:11 |
| enrico | Burgundavia: I think the world looks nicer if you expect people to be fine, especially when they are already being fine | 10:12 |
| === enrico reads the backlog | ||
| enrico | sm: I see you have a problem with multiple parents | 10:12 |
| enrico | that is, you complain people don't get it | 10:12 |
| sm | *I* don't :) | 10:12 |
| enrico | In fact, I think that feature is really hard to see. i did have to ask you as well | 10:12 |
| sm | well I'm seeing that they don't, and I see why.. I hope I'm not complaining | 10:13 |
| enrico | For example, you manage parents clicking on something called "backlinks": I'd never expect that | 10:13 |
| sm | I think it would seem more natural if you had been using zwiki all along | 10:13 |
| sm | (obviously) | 10:13 |
| sm | there used to be no quick form at the bottom | 10:14 |
| enrico | And the "reparent" button gives you the idea that you have only one parent: if you had more than once, what are you doing with that reparenting function? Removing all other parents? | 10:14 |
| Burgundavia | the great thing about software, is that we get used to the quirks of the ones that we use regularly | 10:14 |
| sm | and reparenting fit naturally with backlinks, because the pages that link to you are often the ones you want to be a parent | 10:14 |
| enrico | sm: Yes, it fits from the POV of the developer's brain model of the wiki, but not for the user's | 10:14 |
| sm | so clicking on the page title is really the primary form for "page relationships" | 10:15 |
| enrico | sm: you could have a "parents" button that would show the backlinks as a convenience list to pick from | 10:15 |
| sm | which I think fits with original wiki | 10:15 |
| sm | yes | 10:15 |
| enrico | that would also fit in the mental model of the users | 10:15 |
| sm | do you mean change the "backlinks" tab to "parents", or duplicate it ? | 10:16 |
| enrico | Duplicate it, even | 10:16 |
| enrico | but that would be too many buttons | 10:16 |
| enrico | And how about changing the "reparent" in the quick form to "add parent" ? | 10:17 |
| enrico | That would make it clear that multiple parents are there | 10:17 |
| sm | because actually you can't click on the title in plone skin, you must click backlinks | 10:17 |
| sm | it doesn't add parent, it replaces whatever you add | 10:17 |
| sm | whatever you had | 10:17 |
| enrico | Yes, but how about changing the function of it? | 10:18 |
| enrico | That'd make it very quick to add parent as "categories" | 10:18 |
| sm | yes it's a thought.. I tried to make that form do what would be least confusing to most users | 10:18 |
| enrico | and then you could delete parents maybe with a button next to the parent names at the top of the page | 10:18 |
| sm | nb mouse over it for help | 10:18 |
| sm | too many buttons & controls is a problem you see | 10:19 |
| enrico | Yes, I know | 10:19 |
| enrico | A "manage parents" button to the right side of the page, vertically aligned with the parents? | 10:19 |
| sm | really I'd like to simplify that plone skin a lot | 10:20 |
| sm | which would allow that kind of experiment | 10:21 |
| sm | do you think anyone'd mind ? | 10:21 |
| enrico | sm | 10:21 |
| enrico | how about this: replace "reparent" with "add parent", then allow to and add remove parents in the "Edit wiki page" | 10:22 |
| enrico | I turned off my brain, that that's where my hand go when I had the intention of removing parents | 10:22 |
| enrico | s/that that's/and that's/ | 10:22 |
| sm | in edit | 10:22 |
| enrico | sm: to simplify the plone skin you should coordinate with jdub and the effort to change the look of the website | 10:23 |
| enrico | I know they made a contest for a new look | 10:23 |
| sm | jdub ? ok | 10:23 |
| sm | what's jdub's job title ? | 10:23 |
| sm | does it include webmaster ? | 10:23 |
| enrico | sm: you better add mako in Cc, though. jdub is sometimes unresponsive | 10:23 |
| sm | so is mako :( | 10:23 |
| sm | so are well all of course | 10:23 |
| enrico | I'm not sure about jdub's title, but he's the one that handled the website look contest | 10:23 |
| sm | not complaining, mako | 10:23 |
| mako | sm: :) | 10:24 |
| mako | enrico: the website look contest has been passed off to henrik omma | 10:24 |
| sm | aha | 10:24 |
| enrico | sm: so, that's your man :) | 10:24 |
| enrico | mako: thanks | 10:25 |
| sm | does henrik's job title include webmaster :) | 10:25 |
| mako | i'm not sure | 10:25 |
| mako | we don't really have job titles here | 10:25 |
| sm | I want to talk to the person who can tell me yes do stuff or no don't :) | 10:25 |
| enrico | Burgundavia: try DocteamPostHoary: that shows two parents | 10:25 |
| mako | sm: i have been rather unresponsive this last week.. i sort of spilled water on my laptop last wendesday | 10:25 |
| sm | yes, no problem | 10:26 |
| sm | you and I are still going to chat about zwiki upgrades some time ? | 10:26 |
| enrico | mako: water? You're getting rusty my friend. A year ago you'd spill any sort of liquid on it, EXCEPT water :) | 10:26 |
| mako | sm: what exactly do you need right now? to upgrade teh wiki? | 10:26 |
| Burgundavia | mako: I saw that on your blog | 10:26 |
| sm | yes.. a one-time upgrade would be helpful | 10:26 |
| mako | enrico: olive oil! | 10:26 |
| === Kinnison yawns | ||
| Burgundavia | Kinnison: go to bed! | 10:27 |
| Kinnison | Burgundavia: tempting | 10:27 |
| Kinnison | it's only 21:27 though | 10:27 |
| sm | I'd also like to know the process for future upgrades, and if possible get everyone's approval for it to happen on a regular schedule | 10:27 |
| sm | but a quick upgrade today would fix several problems | 10:27 |
| mako | sm: i don't think it's going to actually involve me | 10:27 |
| sm | ok | 10:27 |
| Kinnison | Burgundavia: I've only been up 14 hours. Not like you | 10:27 |
| mako | sm: but i'm happy to help poke the necessary people for you | 10:27 |
| mako | sm: i don't have access or knowledge about any of the component parts | 10:28 |
| sm | ok, who to poke ? | 10:28 |
| mako | sm: what sort of access do you need to upgrade zwiki? | 10:28 |
| mako | sm: BTW, i appreciate your patience on this | 10:28 |
| sm | np | 10:28 |
| Burgundavia | Kinnison: I have now been up 21 | 10:29 |
| sm | simplest and best from my point of view: once a month I ssh to the server, I pull the latest with darcs (preserving ubuntu-specific tweaks), I restart zope | 10:29 |
| sm | or: every so often I ping someone at canonical to ssh in and do darcs pull | 10:30 |
| sm | or: every so often I ping someone to install a tarball I've prepared from a ubuntu-zwiki darcs repo which I manage locally | 10:31 |
| sm | (in decreasing order of efficiency) | 10:31 |
| enrico | sm: you mentioned "facets" some time ago. That is enough for me to love you | 10:31 |
| === sm dances | ||
| sm | mako: last time I discussed this with someone there was blather about not wanting to install darcs on the server | 10:33 |
| mako | lets try for the second one | 10:33 |
| mako | ok.. lets try the third one :) | 10:33 |
| sm | let's try for the second ! :) | 10:33 |
| mako | alright.. :) | 10:33 |
| sm | I can make tarballs if necessary, but it's waste work | 10:33 |
| sm | and I'll do it less often | 10:33 |
| === mako nods | ||
| mako | yeah.. working with the admins and getting accounts has proved problematic in the past | 10:34 |
| sm | the main thing is to get contact with someone who can and will do upgrades | 10:35 |
| sm | how it's done is not so important I guess | 10:35 |
| === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| mako | sm alright, i think elmo is going to the one we're going to need to deal with | 10:46 |
| mako | but we should check with henrik first to make sure he doesn't haev the power to do this | 10:46 |
| mako | when he is on IRC he is hno73 | 10:46 |
| sm | ok.. I've chatted with elmo briefly | 10:46 |
| sm | thx | 10:46 |
| mako | let me know if anybody needs prodding | 10:51 |
| sm | thx | 10:55 |
| sm | later all ! | 10:55 |
| skyrider | sm-afk: alive? | 11:02 |
| skyrider | sm-afk: I've fixed that page. Waiting for you... | 11:02 |
| sm-afk | skyrider: just copying the html from sandbox.. I don't need these class="reference" do I ? | 11:06 |
| sm-afk | the original doesn't have them | 11:07 |
| skyrider | where did you see class="reference"??? | 11:07 |
| skyrider | I've written in in pure ReST | 11:07 |
| sm-afk | maybe there's one in the original | 11:07 |
| sm-afk | ok.. I copied html from the rendered wiki page, since I need html | 11:07 |
| sm-afk | no problem | 11:08 |
| skyrider | ok. BTW, I think class="reference" defines small globe picture in CSS for links. | 11:08 |
| sm-afk | ah | 11:09 |
| sm-afk | better ? | 11:11 |
| sabmoc | what is a good reasource for learning to customize a wiki? | 11:11 |
| sm-afk | double globe, fixed | 11:12 |
| sm-afk | sabmoc: different people mean different things by that.. you mean.. | 11:13 |
| skyrider | sm-afk: looks good. Thank you very much. | 11:14 |
| sm-afk | glad to help | 11:15 |
| sabmoc | sm-afk, the Local Canadian team just got its own website | 11:33 |
| sabmoc | sm-afk, I haven't run a wiki before, and we're going to need to customize it. | 11:34 |
| sm-afk | sabmoc: a zwiki ? | 11:34 |
| sabmoc | sm-afk, yes, matthias set it up for us just today | 11:34 |
| sm-afk | cool | 11:34 |
| sabmoc | yeah :) | 11:35 |
| sm-afk | http://zwiki.org , administrator's guide, QuickReference, and #zwiki | 11:35 |
| sm-afk | let's talk more later | 11:35 |
| sabmoc | sm-afk, ok | 11:35 |
| sabmoc | thank you | 11:35 |
| sm-afk | np | 11:35 |
| === sm-afk obeys the nick | ||
| === skyrider [~skyrider@195.128.178.150] has left #ubuntu-doc [] | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!