/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/04/03/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

mdkemako, both sides seem to say that :/12:04
makomdke: exactly12:04
Kamionwell, if they won't talk, then *somebody* has to go, I guess ...12:04
smurfixmdke: exactly, albeit differently12:04
mdkei have tried to mediate and proposed a solution12:05
makosmurfix and i talked to both sides seperately and said basically, "can you guys, together or independently, come up with a solution for choosing and reevaluating leadership that you both would find fair"12:05
makowe tried to get them together to have that discussion as well12:05
smurfixKamion: abelli did, and the "other side" seems to start getting their act together WRT a new locoteam12:05
makobut by that time, abelli has basically disengaged completely12:05
mdkeyes he is too disillusioned12:05
mdkethe two sides are unlikely to work with each other12:06
mdkeimo12:06
makoso yeah...12:06
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mdkeanyhow12:06
mdkei'd come to talk about the solution rather than the problem12:06
makosounds good :)12:06
smurfixthe new locoteam rules we've talked about last time should help avoid that heavy-handedness in the future; one part of the problem was that abelli was simply here first12:06
mdkewe'd proposed a team without a leadership.12:06
mdkein which the group consensus takes decisions12:06
makowell, that was a problem intitially.. abelli did some great stuff and had some great ideas12:06
makoand i still hope he can find someway to get back involved in teh community12:07
ograyeah12:07
mdzsmurfix: are those published somewhere?12:07
makomdz: they will be12:07
smurfixmdz: sure, I've changed the howto12:07
mdzhno73: just a moment ago there was an agenda item regarding the status of the website competition; if you want to give a brief update, that would be good12:07
smurfixmdz: Create *team page, get team, document what team does, figure out who's "leader" -in a nutshell12:08
makoi think not having a leader at first.. but letting it emerge from the group  was something we mentioned last time12:08
smurfixmdz: Might make sense to deemphatize the "leader" bit further12:08
mdkei was hoping to discuss the possibility of our group (without a leader) interacting successfully with you guys12:08
makomdke: so is your decision to not have a leader for a while?12:09
hno73Right, so we've picked three winners and are now implementing the new layout12:09
makomdke: i would completely understand taht12:09
mdkemako, i'll hang on until the website point is done12:09
hno73Actually, the Kubuntu site is already using the new layout with some colour changes12:09
smurfixmdke: One or two people should be the contact, preferably those who speak English best ;-)12:09
Kamionmdke: I certainly don't think we mind having consensus presented by a couple of people, rather than an individual leader's decision12:09
mdkemako, two of us have volunteered as secretaries for the group, based on the enrico/docteam model12:10
mdzhno73: oh, I didn't realize that about the Kubuntu site. nice12:10
Kamionmdke: if you need a couple of people to be contacts to avoid accusations of powermongering, we'd certainly understand12:10
mdkeKamion, our role would be to gather up threads of consensus12:10
mdkeand one or both of us could act as representative for you guys12:10
Kamionmdke: *nod*12:10
mdkethe other guy couldn't come this evening i'm afraid12:10
Kamionthat seems perfectly reasonable12:11
Kamionwho's the other guy?12:11
makomdke: i think that's great :)12:11
mdkemako, ok cool12:11
makoyeah, who's the other guy? :)12:11
hno73I've been working with two of the competition winner on the site CSS and it looks like it's shaping up12:11
mdkehe is sebastiano12:11
makoah, ok12:11
makomestre, yes?12:11
mdkeyes12:11
Kamionhno73: kubuntu.org is already looking like a nice improvement, certainly12:11
makogreat12:11
hno73I'm not sure how much work it is to make a Plone skin though12:11
mdzhno73: is there an ETA when the new ubuntu.com will go live?12:11
mdkemako, he speaks english right?12:12
mdkei think he speaks pretty well12:12
hno73mdz: The plan is to take it live at Hoary release12:12
mdkeso we could do it12:12
mdzhno73: ok, thanks for the update12:12
makomdke: yes12:12
makomdke: we've emailed in the past12:13
elmohno73: wah12:13
elmohno73: _AT_ ?12:13
Kamionhno73: sometime a bit before would be nice ;)12:13
mako:)12:13
hno73Kamion: right :)12:13
mdkewhoops12:13
makolets try to coordinate making all the most invasive changes precisely with the time that slashdot links to us12:14
elmomako: let's not12:14
makooh wait.. there goes that thinko problem again :)12:14
mako;)12:14
Kamionmako: you're assuming /. will link to the hoary release12:15
makocool12:15
makoKamion: it'll happen ;)12:15
mdzready to move on?12:15
makoyes12:15
makoso yeah12:15
Kamionmako: and not to, say, "$OTHER_DISTRO thinks eating pies is quite important actually"12:15
makomdke: ao...12:15
makoso..12:15
makoi want to make sure we can learn as much from the italian situation12:16
makoand do as much as we can to prevent this from happening with other teams12:16
mdkehmm12:16
makothe italian team is perhaps only unique in that it was one of our first teams12:16
mdkethe problem is semantic i think12:16
makoand has been able to mature more.. good and bad12:16
mdke"leader" = all wrong12:16
mdzKamion,elmo: but you know how our beloved sabdfl enjoys last-minute surprises ;-)12:16
mdkejdub said to me the other day: the leader is the slave to the group: this needs to be underlined. Otherwise people go for power/fame12:17
=== ogra thinks clearlooks
Kamionmdke: I do prefer "contact"12:17
makomdke: well, lets take your experience.. both in terms of your new rules and your leadership stuff and see what we can extract into guidelines, etc for the rest of the loco projects12:17
elmomdz: yeah, you remember my hair?  all grey now.  I know.12:17
Kamiondifferent emphasis12:17
ograKamion, spoc `12:17
ogra?12:17
makoi'm happy to leave it at that.. i dn't think the CC needs to do anything more12:17
mdkemako, well if no other groups have had the problem...12:17
makomdke: given enough time.. they will :)12:17
thomelmo: that's just you getting old12:17
makomdke: i want to to AVOID them having the problem12:18
=== mdke nods
makoor give them a clear path when they get there12:18
=== mako a
elmothom: you're the one with 25 years IT work experience  :p12:18
makoalright12:18
makowe can finish up now...12:18
makoIRC ops/moderators12:18
avdykguys, thanks for your time12:18
Kamionsmurfix: what would it take to expunge the word "leader" and replace it with something else throughout? :)12:18
makomdz: from you?12:18
janimako PM about my key/snailmail etc when you got time12:18
=== avdyk [~avdyk@cm-201-014.dialup.ulg.ac.be] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["spending]
Kamionwho are the current ops on #ubuntu?12:18
mdzmako: yes12:19
makoKamion: i'd be in support of that12:19
mdzmako: people are frequently approaching me and others on #ubuntu-devel about moderation issues on #ubuntu12:19
smurfixKamion: s/leader/contact/ ?12:19
mdkeKamion, on the wiki? easy game surely12:19
makomdz: it's being done poorly?12:19
makofirst i've heard12:19
smurfixcoordinator?12:19
mdzmako: no, just an apparent lack of ops12:19
makoahh, ok12:19
ograsmurfix, proposing spoc12:19
mdzmako: someone coming on and flooding, etc., and there being no one to deal with it12:19
Kamionchanserv says seb128, bob2, fabbione, lamont, thom, Keybuk, fooishbar, jdub, mdz12:19
mdkesmurfix, representative is my suggestion12:19
DarthFrogI was the one who brought the issue to a head with mdz.12:19
ograsmurfix, Single Point Of Contact12:19
mdzyeah, see, those are all Ubuntu developers12:20
mdzwho are busy with other things12:20
Kamionogra: no more acronyms please, especially not for stuff targetted at non-native speakers12:20
mdzthat duty should be expanded to include some good community volunteers12:20
ograokay12:20
makoright.. we need people who are respected, responsible, responsive, and on the irc channell the fricking time :)12:20
ograbob212:20
DarthFrogGuilty, Yer Honour. :-)12:20
mdkeand not devs12:20
ograi would say12:20
Kamionogra: he's already on that list12:20
ograah, sorry12:21
makocan we get bob2 in here12:21
makoare there are suggestions on folks to do this?12:21
Kamionogra: are you on #ubuntu regularly?12:21
mdzI'm not on #ubuntu enough to judge12:21
mdzDarthFrog has volunteered12:21
ograKamion, not recently12:21
Kamionok12:21
makomdz: that's my problem12:21
ograKamion, but from time to time12:21
makoi'm on enough to notice bob2 is on a lot :)12:22
ograyep12:22
mdkeyes12:22
makocan we delegate this bob2?12:22
mdkeclone him12:22
smurfixmdke: "representative" is a bit long for my taste. I think I'll start with de-emphasizing the "leading" part of the job12:22
mdzI guess we can delegate this to bob212:22
mdkesmurfix, sure cool12:22
mdzmako: alternatively12:23
Kamionalso people who know a reasonable amount about how IRC works12:23
makoKamion: yes12:23
makomdz: ....12:23
mdzmako: we could send out an announcement of a future CC meeting and invite people from #ubuntu to come and discuss12:23
mdzKamion: right12:23
mdzI am both on #ubuntu relatively rarely, and know jack about IRC12:23
makomdz: yeah. that's basically my position12:23
crimsunI'm in ubuntu fairly regularly12:24
makocrimsun: sure12:24
DarthFrogAs am I.12:24
mdkesmurfix, see enrico's wikipage for a nice description 12:24
KamionI'm on #ubuntu rarely, though university time-wasting means I know a reasonable amount about IRC12:24
Kamionalthough all that knowledge is dated12:24
mdzKamion: you have enough on your plate I think ;-)12:24
makoalright...12:24
=== ajmitch_ [~ajmitch@port162-45.ubs.maxnet.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Kamionwell yes :) but I'll try to hang out on #ubuntu a bit and see who's who12:25
fabbionei am on #ubuntu, but i just idle there...12:25
Kamionso that I have something intelligent to contribute next meeting12:25
fabbionei got a few trolls... but that's because people were telling me12:25
smurfixmdke: Heh12:25
ogradaniels is more often there12:25
jbaileyI idle there, but my nick highlights on 'glibc' and 'cdbs' draw my attention occasionally. =)12:26
makoso, mdz's proposal is to invite people next time12:26
crimsunmako: I agree with that proposal12:26
mdkesmurfix, "i do the dirty work while others do the fun stuff" ;)12:26
mdzI sort of expected that there would be a critical mass here anyway12:26
makohow about this.. the existing CC puts together a list of nominations and we do some sort of consensus with the folks who show up?12:26
ograwoah, there are 400 ppl in currently12:27
mdzI didn't anticipate the need to explicitly invite people, or I would have done it for this meeting12:27
makoogra: yeah...12:27
mdzogra: consistently over 400 now12:27
ograunbelivable12:27
makoalright.. how about this12:27
makowe all make an effort to watch the channel a bit12:27
makotalk to the regulars, and make a list of nominations of operators12:27
makoand then do some sort of consensus thing at the next meeting12:28
makoand of course, ask people if they want to do it12:28
makodoes that sound sane?12:28
mdzworks for me, except for the "do more work" bit12:28
makoit might not.. i don't know how this is done in irc channels elsewhere :)12:28
ogramako, sounds good, but collides a bit with the release, everybody is quite busy atm....12:28
makomdz: dude, irc is FUN12:28
makowell, that's the last last item12:29
mdzmako: clearly you don't have enough work to do12:29
mdz;-)12:29
ograheh12:29
makomdz: HAH12:29
ajmitch_MOTU meetup time? :)12:29
mdzany other business?12:29
dholbachmako: please have a look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUTodo - loads of thrilling opportunities :-)12:29
makoumm.. lets decide on the next date12:29
Kamionmdz: let's assign mako more bugs12:29
ograajmitch_, give them time to end the meeting12:29
crimsunmdz: just one: many people have expressed interest in having XFce 4.2.1 in universe (which will require a sync from os-works) in time for Hoary12:30
makoKamion: thanks12:30
mdzcrimsun: is there something for the community council to discuss or decide in that regard?12:30
ogracrimsun, mdz will attend the motu meeting...12:30
makoKamion: KAZAKH LANGUGE SUPPORT TOTALLY FUCKED!!!12:30
crimsunogra: ah, ok.12:31
crimsunmdz: nope, retracted.12:31
Kamionis it cuz I is Kazakhstani?12:31
KamionANYWAY12:31
makoso yes12:31
makodo we want to move the date12:31
ograstop the shouting guys :)12:31
makoit's the day before RC right now12:31
makoat 4:00 UTC12:32
mako*yikes*12:32
fabbioneyay12:32
makoaccording to the rotating calendar12:32
=== dholbach notes it on wiki/Calendar
mdkelol12:32
ogra4:00 ?????12:32
mdkedholbach, you're really marketing that page ;)12:32
mdzwhat a nice convenient time for me12:32
makoogra: yes :)12:32
fabbioneogra: it will be 6 am here12:32
Kamionmako: day before release I think actually12:32
ograargh12:32
Kamionmako: next week is tech board12:32
dholbachmdke: to make sure, I know when the meeting is ;-)12:32
makoright. ok12:32
mdkeheh12:32
mdz2000, 2 days before RC12:32
fabbioneogra: next weekend we go in daylightsavingwhatever12:32
makoso, should we go with this12:33
makowe can move it to thursday12:33
mdzmako: it's the day before *hoary*12:33
mdzmako: not RC12:33
makooh yes, damn12:33
makowell...12:33
KamionI think I would definitely appreciate not having a meeting the night before hoary12:33
mdzcan we just cancel it?12:33
ografabbione, yes, and i guess i'll just stay up a little longer ;)12:33
makoyes12:33
mdzor push it to the next week12:33
makomdz: lets postpone it a week12:33
makoalright then12:33
fabbioneor let's skip it for once12:33
mdzdouble u pTB and CC on the same day to catch up12:33
fabbionemako: we need to start time-rotation on the TB too12:34
makoOK, April 13 4:00 UTC (!)12:34
KamionTB meetings don't have quite so much of the community involvement thing yet12:34
makoany other business?12:34
Kamionit's more important for them to be in sync with developers' work hours12:34
fabbioneKamion: we still miss people each time12:35
fabbioneKamion: like jdub?12:35
Kamiontrue, jdub often can't make it12:35
makogoing once for othe business....12:35
Kamionrighto, we're done here I think12:35
fabbionewe need a fair rotation for everybody really12:35
makogoing twice for other business....12:35
makothis CC meeting is over :)12:35
mdzjdub didn't make it when it was at 1600 UTC either12:35
mdzmako: cheers12:35
makomdz: so jdub is a bum? :)12:35
mdke:)12:35
mdkethanks all12:36
fabbionemdz: isn't in the middle of the night for them?12:36
Kamion1600 UTC is a pretty obnoxious time in .au12:36
fabbionemdz: i never see daniels either around12:36
fabbioneKamion: so it is for me....12:36
mdzKamion: TB is currently 2000 UTC12:36
Kamionmdz: *nod*12:36
mdzwhich is still not ideal for .au12:36
fabbioneKamion: my wife is really threatening me to remove my pro-creation tools if i keep skipping dinner with her each tuesday12:36
Kamionfabbione: I'm on 13+ hours today, I have no sympathy :P12:37
mdkehmm12:37
zulhaha..12:37
mdkeultimate sacrifice required12:37
hno73I should have posted this link while we were on the topic, but: http://www.theopencd.net/ubu/index1.html12:37
hno73there it is now anyway12:37
zulfabbione: you dont need them anyways12:37
ogra.....going for MOTUMeeting.....12:37
mdkehno73, that's really nice12:37
fabbionezul: shhh! there is always a (very little) hope!12:37
Kamionhno73: sweet12:38
zulfabbione: none...you are married now.12:38
mdkelol12:38
=== fabbione has to agree with zul
Kamionhno73: (although where did this "intex" thing come from? should be "Intel")12:38
ogra.....going for MOTUMeeting.....12:38
zulfabbione: for once12:38
=== trulux [~lorenzo@trulux.user] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
truluxwoka12:38
zulhey trulux 12:38
ograhi trulux12:38
truluxhey zul, ogra :)12:39
ogralets keep it short today if we can12:39
=== mdke [~matt@mdke.user] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"]
hno73Yeah, that typo has been there since the original template suggestion was submitted to the competition:)12:39
ograthere are five items on the agenda12:39
=== DarthFrog [~rob@S010600036df5148f.vc.shawcable.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Kopete]
Kamionhno73: :)12:39
dholbachhttp://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUMeeting12:40
ografirst is dholbach asked for keeping universe open a bit longer then release12:40
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crimsun# the username and ID used by pbuilder, inside chroot. Needs fakeroot, really12:40
crimsunBUILDUSERID=123412:40
crimsun#BUILDUSERNAME=pbuilder12:40
crimsun# BINDMOUNTS is a space separated list of things to mount12:40
crimsun# inside the chroot.12:40
crimsunBINDMOUNTS=""12:40
ogracrimsun, ??12:40
tsenguh12:40
crimsun# Set the debootstrap variant to 'buildd' type.12:40
crimsunDEBOOTSTRAPOPTS[0] ='--variant=buildd'12:40
crimsunerr, sorry!12:40
crimsunmouse went nuts12:40
dholbach:-)12:40
koke:D12:40
ograso what about that topic, mdz around ?12:41
mdzyes12:41
mdzwhat is the question, though?12:41
dholbachyeah... if you have a look at MOTUTodo and UniverseUnmetDeps and the yet to build UniverseDoesNotBuild pages, you'll get an idea12:41
ogracan we hear your opinion about that ?12:41
mdzxfce is in universe, update it at will12:41
ogramdz, keeping universe open after release12:42
mdzoh, that12:42
=== trulux would like to talk on Ubuntu Hardened after the meeting
=== fabbione watches mdz changing colors
ograi'm not happy with it being stated officially12:42
tsengtrulux: dude12:42
dholbachwe're really a rocking team, but we won't make it, there will be loads of uninstallable/unbuildable packages12:42
ograbut iirc we had it in warty too 12:42
tsengtrulux: this is hoary release build up, Hardened is breezy material12:42
mdzelmo: is it even possible to lock down main+restricted but not universe+multiverse?12:42
dholbachelmo said (just yesterday):  "oh tehcnically it's possible, just a small amount of work - it's just messing with something after it's been released - even universe - just gives me all the wrong kinds of chills" - hope i don't cite him in the wrong context12:43
fabbionei don't think we should leave universe open12:44
lamontfabbione: ++12:44
fabbioneif there is any vendor outthere building DVD's with universe.. they will get crazy12:44
ograme neither but leave the opportunity to build a selected et of packages...12:44
fabbioneor whatever other reason12:44
fabbionea release is a release.. full stop12:44
ograset even12:44
elmomdz: yes12:44
fabbioneogra: they will be in breezy.. tough luck12:44
elmomdz: at a source-level, in terms of the restrictions12:45
KamionI have to agree with fabbione here; we don't include universe on DVDs ourselves, but I suggested myself recently that third parties might want to do that12:45
truluxtseng: right, Hoary+1 is the target12:45
tsengtrulux: so, please dont cut in on hoary time12:45
mdzwhat are the risks that we expose ourselves to if we leave it open?12:45
ografabbione, i think it depends on the packages...12:45
tsengtrulux: release crunch, understand?12:45
Kamionand I don't think it's any shame on the MOTU team if there are a few uninstallables left and stuff12:45
truluxtseng: sure12:45
dholbachif you see those lists of packages and the users complaining about non-installable packages, ...12:45
tsengtrulux: thanks.12:45
lamontmdz: insanity and a slippery slope, for starters?12:45
elmodholbach: btw, there's something else you need to realize12:45
ogradholbach, we need prioritys12:45
dholbachogra: but making the priority list will at least a day12:46
fabbioneogra: yes i understand that. but the archive freezes.. that's it.. it can be problematic and annoying in some situations12:46
elmodholbach: sabdfl has set me a hoary release goal of importing the world into universe/multiverse.  and I don't think he cares what state it's in, and I'm not going to get it done in time for you guys to fix it all up12:46
Kamionelmo: "the world"?12:46
elmokamion: apt-get.org12:46
mdzKamion: THE WORLD12:46
Kamionyeesh12:46
ograargh12:46
fabbioneoh crap12:46
tsengyar :(12:46
kokeO_o12:46
elmoand anything else with a Packages files on it12:46
ograthats news to the MOTU12:46
elmoerr, Sources12:46
fabbioneelmo: please do NOT import debian.fabbione.net or any of the mirrors...12:47
=== dholbach 's headache gets worse
fabbioneelmo: that would be bad for ubuntu12:47
Kamioner, quality control? hello?12:47
tsengogra: well, we saw it in the preview announcement, and the marillat merging12:47
fabbioneand i own that archive.. so i know what it's there12:47
azeemfabbione: you will be imported. Resistance is futile.12:47
tsengbut yeah12:47
mdzKamion: quality control and multiverse do not intersect ;-)12:47
thomfabbione: coward :-)12:47
elmoogra: yes, I probably should have warned you when I was told to do it; my bad12:47
fabbioneazeem: eheh12:47
Kamionmdz: I would have thought that e.g. the Java guys might have something to say about that12:47
ograelmo, rather sabdfls 12:47
tsengelmo: is the stuff even being reviewed?12:48
fabbionethom: you really do NOT want apache+ipv6 going around ubuntu, do you?12:48
mdzKamion: java stuff that we care about is going to progress into universe and main12:48
ograelmo, he already forgot to tell us about wine12:48
elmotseng: I'm revieiw it for license and there's an undecided issue of what to do about packages which overlap - they might need reviewed, I'm not sure12:48
tseng:/12:48
janielmo, anything else besides apt-get.org ?12:48
Kamionmdz: in any case much of apt-get.org would be universe, not multiverse12:48
elmobut for the rest, basically no12:48
ograelmo, this may be a high amount12:48
mdzogra: the idea of leaving universe open after release makes me more uncomfortable than the prospect of uninstallable packages in universe12:48
tsengive seen some pretty bad stuff.. case in point their tomboy package12:48
dholbachok, so the decision is final: until release we have to get as much sorted as possible, full stop, right?12:49
mdzKamion: that depends on how we define them12:49
ogramdz, me too12:49
lamontmdz: 110% agreement here12:49
elmojani: do you know of any other big meta-repositories?12:49
fabbionedholbach: that would be the best solution12:49
janielmo, no just individuals of course12:49
fabbionedholbach, ogra: considering how young is the MOTU team12:49
elmojani: well, I'm happy to import other stuff on request12:49
ogramdz, dunno if i wasnt clear about my opinion, but dholbach has the headdaces12:49
dholbachit gives me huge headache12:49
fabbioneyou have done an excellent job for hoary12:49
janielmo, cool12:49
elmoand if anything gets on sabdfl's radar, I'll no doubt have to import that too12:49
mdzfabbione++ 12:49
crimsundholbach: I think hoary/universe being frozen will be okay, since we'll just pick up with breezy/universe12:49
fabbionecrimsun: exactly12:50
mdzyou guys are doing a fantastic job, but I don't think there are enough of you to get every  package in perfect shape for the release12:50
dholbachthanks for the flowers12:50
ograbut will see backports rising again :(12:50
ajmitch_so it'll be a crazy 2 weeks getting universe into shape as best we can12:50
fabbionealso because to fix hoary, you will pile up work on breezy12:50
Kamionogra: inevitable12:50
fabbioneogra: you will never avoid that12:50
mdzogra: there were backports for Warty less than a month after release12:50
crimsunogra: true, but we should be pushing those people to use breezy :)12:50
mdzwith firefox 1.0PR1 or whatever12:50
dholbachok... so someone should get a priority list whipped up12:50
ogramdz, they already exist for hoary :-P12:51
ajmitch_mdz: there are already hoary backports.. don't ask how12:51
mdzdholbach: a good approach might be to use Debian popularity-contest data12:51
elmogiggle12:51
mdzdholbach: focus on the most commonly used packages12:51
elmohoary backports12:51
=== tseng elects dholbach List Master
dholbachmdz: good thinking12:51
elmogiggle12:51
dholbachi'll take care of it tomorrow12:51
ograelmo, stop giggling, iz makes me cry12:51
dholbachlamont: how long will the universe test build action take?12:51
mdzdholbach: Charles Majola should be helping with that; I asked him to start working through "apt-cache -i unmet"12:51
ograelmo, and thom as well i guess (ff 1.0.1 is already there)12:52
lamontdholbach: heat death of the universe... No.  about 3-4 days, iir5c12:52
dholbachmdz: we have that at   wiki/UniverseUnmetDeps12:52
ajmitch_tseng: he's already WikiMaster12:52
lamontthen again, we've imported more crap since the last time...12:52
dholbachlamont: ok thanks12:52
ograok, do we have a consensus here now ?12:52
dholbachseems so12:53
ograuniverse freezes with the release12:53
ograright ?12:53
tsengogra: good news and bad news, i guess :)12:53
fabbioneogra: yeps...12:53
janielmo, for instance XFCE4.2 http://www.os-works.com/view/debian/ 12:53
ograok12:53
ogranext12:53
ograwhich MOTUNewPackages shall be focused on?12:53
tritiumIf our packages don't get approved before the universe freeze, do we miss the MOTU Hoary fast-track opportunity?12:54
janielmo, NVU http://maya.ba.issia.cnr.it/frankie/debian/12:54
dholbachgnomebaker should get in RSN12:54
ogradholbach, two little fixes, i reviewed it today12:54
tsengtritium: mako or mdz would have to answer that one12:54
fabbionejani: you don't want packages from frakie.. do you? ;)12:54
=== ogra wants hula
ograhey guys12:54
tsengim thinking hula might be less than stable12:54
ogratseng, tagged as preview12:55
janifabbione, I don't know him, I just want NVU users asked for it12:55
tsengjust from what ive heard around the block12:55
mdztritium: we'll have to decide what to do about the fast-track process through the community council12:55
mdzmaybe it will continue, maybe not12:55
dholbachbut "having" hula is cool, even 0.77-extra-experimental-0ubuntu112:55
ograguys please cncentrate on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUNewPackages12:55
fabbionejani: nah j/k.. he is a good guy12:55
ograconcentrate12:55
makomdz, tritium: yes, but my understanding is that until hoary releases, the fast track process is in place12:55
tritiummdz, okay12:55
lamontdholbach: Total 2180 package(s) in state Installed.12:55
lamontTotal 5262 package(s) in state Needs-Build.12:55
lamontthat's i38612:55
dholbachlamont: ok... thank you :-)12:56
tsengogra: none of those are terribly exciting to me12:56
tritiummako, okay, thanks12:56
mdzmako: yep12:56
ograbut thy are the topic tseng 12:56
tsengyes..12:56
ograwhats not there wont get reviewed anymore12:56
tsengbut none stands out as popular12:56
mdzogra: I reviewed gvr already and asked elmo to import it12:56
ograbut its pointless anyway, since apt-get.org gets imported12:57
tsenghula is a hot item, but its "preview"12:57
mdzogra: you can take it off the review list12:57
tsengill get it12:57
ograas i said, our whole QA process we worked out got pointless with the apt-get.org decision whoich makes me merely sad12:57
ogra(and a bit angry)12:58
mdzmy impression was that that stuff would go into multiverse12:58
fabbioneogra: you should make a point there imho12:58
tsengmdz: er sorry, what does gvr expand to? i dont see such a think on motunewpackages12:58
mdztseng: it's in UniverseCandidates12:58
tsengah12:58
janibut those would not override existing packs would it?12:58
ografabbione, i will, but sabdfl rules...12:58
Kamionogra: I think you should talk to sabdfl and try to clear things up12:58
crimsunwell, let's go ahead and place precedence on ubuntu's universe packages ahead of what apt-get.org might have12:59
fabbioneogra: and perhaps get a more reasonable defition of "importing WORLD"12:59
fabbioneogra, crimsun: sabdfl is not a monster with 4 heads and 8 legs :-)))))12:59
fabbionejust talk with him12:59
ogracrimsun, there are even unmaintained packages i once put there 3 years ago i dont want to see in ubuntu12:59
crimsunfabbione: sure thing01:00
ografabbione, i will, but he will have his reasons01:00
fabbioneogra: so will you...01:00
ograyup01:00
fabbionethat's why you talk and agree on what's the best01:00
ograok, jani01:00
ogra Possibility of adding XFCE4.2.1 to universe? (JaniMonoses)01:01
ograi think we talked that over before...01:01
janiwell mdz seems fine with it, crimsun did not object01:01
janiit's all about if it can be done in time01:01
janinow if elmo is after foreign repos this is an01:01
ograyeah, lets pull it in as soon as possible01:01
janiexcellent chance01:01
janino need for ubuntu1 patches at all, the packages are in good shape01:02
ograyeah01:02
janigreat PR value too :)01:02
ograyup01:02
crimsunexcept some of benny's packages will supercede what's in universe01:02
crimsunhis rox-filer is epoched higher, for instance01:02
janihoary hedgehod with latest release of the 2^W 3 most important DEs01:02
ogracrimsun, is that bad ?01:02
crimsunogra: I don't believe so, but I haven't reviewed it01:03
janiwe only get xfce4 core not xfld stuff I's say01:03
janirox-filer is not xfce4 package per se01:03
Kamionelmo: do you have discretion to do things like avoiding repositories that clash with stuff already in universe?01:03
crimsunjani: right, that's a xfld dependency01:03
janiwe don't need those01:03
janiif we have XFCE4.2 the xfld guys might even switch to hoary liveCD from knoppix ;)01:04
janigood for both projects01:04
ogracrimsun, could you sort that in the desktop team and make sure that we get only things that are needed ?01:04
ogras/desktop team/xfce team  ??01:05
crimsunogra: yep, jani and I (and others) will go over that01:05
ogragreat01:05
janigreat01:05
ograok, next is  Universe packages without desktop file (UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile). Which icon, if any, to use for desktop items.01:05
=== koke wants to add some comments later on UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile
ograkoke, tell us :)01:05
kokethen s/later/now/ :D01:05
kokewell,, this is not much motu-specific01:06
dokojani: it would be a good point, if the guys wanting xfce4.2 could be involved in universe maintainance01:06
kokebut since ubuntu is shipping new desktop files for universe packages01:06
tritiumSo is that it for NewPackages?01:06
janidoko, I don't know them it was wishful thinking on my part :)01:06
ogratritium, yup01:06
kokeand modified ones for some main ones01:06
kokehow could the translations be handled??01:06
janibut if/when we get xfce4.2 in i could mail them01:06
ogratritium, for now until we talked to sabdfl01:06
tritiumogra, are you going to remove them from the list to review?01:07
ogratritium, nope, not before i talked to sabdfl01:07
tritiumokay01:07
ograok, koke i dont think we can ship translations for every .desktop file but i think we should have as much as possible of them, since Amaranth seems stuck with the menu editor...01:09
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ograthe question was what kind of default icon do w want01:09
ograwe even01:09
dholbachi think it was metallikop's question01:09
kokeogra: the point is not having all .desktop translated to all languages, but how to do it01:09
dholbachand jbailey wanted to provide an icon, am i right?01:09
ograhis wife...01:09
dholbachkoke: it's all about control.in and some autoconf-fu, i can look it up in some packages i came across01:10
ogra...nd he said probably, i have heard no agreement yet01:10
jbaileydholbach: Not I. =)  I asked Angie if she was interested, she said yes, but hasn't done anything about being interested despite me nudging her.01:10
dholbachjbailey: ok... right01:10
=== koke postpones the translation stuff since icons *actually* were on agenda :)
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ograkoke, probably rather a task for the doc team ? not sure about that01:11
ograso what do we do, do we go with the white paper sheet ?01:11
tsengjimmac has some blank icons for mime types01:12
ogratseng, can we make sure they dont conflict with any of the mimetypes ? 01:12
tsengim looking it up01:12
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=== ogra remebers a little grey gear from ancient times....
tsengheh01:13
tsengand then the "foot"01:13
koke/usr/share/icons/gnome/48x48/filesystems/gnome-fs-executable.png ??01:14
tsenghttp://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/git//stock_script-48.png01:14
tsengspeaking of gears01:14
kokeor maybe /usr/share/icons/gnome/48x48/filesystems/gnome-mime-application.png ??01:14
ograkoke, the latter doesnt exist here01:15
tsengnor here01:15
dholbachnor in the archive01:15
tsenghey01:15
koke/usr/share/icons/gnome/48x48/mimetypes/gnome-mime-application.png01:15
koke:D01:15
tsenghttp://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/git//window-menu-48.png01:15
ograkoke nah01:16
ograhmm, i would like not to misuse some other descriptive icon...01:16
tsengogra: thats not the icon here01:17
tsengfor window-menu01:17
tsengmine has no ?01:17
tsenghttp://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/git//stock_unknown-48.png is for the weather applet01:18
ogratseng, but it describes windows somehow...01:18
tsenga .desktop describes a window, no?01:18
ograyeah, thats looking good...01:18
tsengin a spacial sense01:18
ogratseng, yes, but not an application...01:19
tsengthe purple ? has other sizes as well01:19
ograi would vote for gnome-fs-executable.png and stock_unknown-48.png01:19
tsengi dont like gnome-fs-exec01:20
tsengits too generic from a normal user I think01:20
dholbachlocate gnome-fs-executable.png | xargs eog    <----- so cool01:20
dholbach"collection mode" :-)01:20
tsengthat one is also used for mime types iirc01:21
ograso what do you guys think ?01:21
tsengas was brought up earlier01:21
tsengunknown executables01:21
dholbachok... will apps have to ship these?01:21
tsengif the desktop referes to a stock icon01:21
ogradholbach, nope01:21
tsengit will already exist ideally01:21
tsenganyway, go to /usr/bin in nautilus01:21
tsenggnome-fs-executable.png is all over01:22
dholbachmake sure they exist and don't add   /usr/share/pixmaps   - i've been told off once :-)01:22
ograjani koke other opinions ?01:22
ogracrimsun `01:22
ogra?01:22
kokewhen I see stock_unknown my links to "help" concept01:22
ogradholbach, yup :)01:22
ograkoke, right...01:23
ograno other opinions ?01:23
kokemaybe some kind of empty window...01:23
=== ogra has the feelng we are only four MOTUs in this meeting
ograkoke, example ?01:24
=== koke looking for...
ograjani, no opinion ?01:25
ogracrimsun, no opinion ?01:25
ograajmitch, ?01:25
dholbachi'm looking over $icon_dir01:25
dholbachthe ubuntu logo01:26
dholbachthat's generic enough :-)01:26
ogradholbach, imagine a menu _full_ of ubuntu logos :-P01:26
dholbachwell if it's the thing you're dreading, have  "Icon="  and you're set :-)01:27
kokehey, I got it :)01:27
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kokejust open an xterm01:27
kokethe icon in the title bar sould be chosen, for consistency :)01:28
ogra+01:28
kokemaybe a bit faded to grey01:28
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kokeI'd have to see the result01:28
janicrappy connection01:28
dholbachhmhmhmhmm01:28
dholbachsounds like a NEW icon, right?01:29
mdzI'm swamped and haven't been able to keep up; do you guys need anything more from me?01:29
kokedholbach: yep, really the same, but colorless01:29
ogramdz, yup next topic...01:29
dholbachmdz: wiki/MorgueCandidates01:29
crimsunogra: sorry, was nabbed01:30
crimsun(scrolling up)01:30
ogralets sort the icon suff in #ubuntu-motu during the next days if more people are around, there seems not to be much interest now..01:30
dholbachyes01:31
dholbachprobably the best01:31
crimsunok01:31
dholbachok, now we need as much input as possible for   wiki/MorgueCandidates   01:31
ogra...and we schouldnt do that in a rush (we'll have to bear with it the next six months)01:31
tsengyou just said we shouldnt use an icon that meant "window"01:31
tseng...meh01:31
dholbachdoes everybody feel comfortable with going through them in each motumeeting?01:31
ogratseng, lest sort it later :)01:32
dholbachnow the lists is a bit full, due to a primary weeding-out01:32
dholbachi think it'll settle down soon01:32
ogradholbach, i thought the question was how to get them flushed out of the archive...01:33
dholbachogra: mdz told us last time: "you're in charge of universe, you decide - tell elmo"01:34
ograa package thats there already had a decision i think01:34
dholbachmdz: correct me, if i quoted wrong01:34
janihopefully will not come back as part of import world ;)01:34
ograjani, you'll never know01:35
janiwe should have a list of packages passed to elmo01:35
dholbachi had really hoped this was going to be a bit more lively01:35
ograjani, i think its the list already...01:35
ograa package that shows up there should already have had its decision...01:35
ogradholbach, this meeting ?01:36
dholbachthis topic01:36
jania list which contains the morgue candidates plus packages others work on01:36
ograhm01:36
crimsundholbach: I see nothing wrong with dropping all those listed on MorgueCandidates. Is this discussion about something else?01:36
dholbachok... if there are no objections whatsoever, elmo will receive this list tomorrow and act upon it01:36
ograyup01:36
dholbachi'll double check the rdepends before01:36
ograok01:37
dholbachalright.. then this is it01:37
dholbachthanks everyone 01:37
dholbachthanks ogra01:37
ograyeah...i'll write up the minutes 01:37
ograthanks all, meeting closed01:37
tsengthanks ogra 01:37
dholbachi'll cleanj the agendas01:37
ograthanks all for attending01:38
tritiumthanks01:38
janiby all01:39
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kokecould we keep talking about translations stuff @ #ubuntu-motu??01:41
tsengsure01:41
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dholbachgood night everyone02:50
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amumoin08:03
Riddellah yes, we had a meeting08:03
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mdzwhatever daemon evolution uses for notifications had died08:04
Riddellhaggai here?08:05
amui'll phone him ...08:05
mdzpinged him on jabber08:05
haggaisorry08:06
haggaiwas talking to tom08:06
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mdzdo we have a quorum, then?08:06
Riddellthink so, do we have an agenda?08:06
mdzI sketched something up on IRC the other day08:07
haggai21:34 <mdz> - any remaining 3.4 packaging08:07
haggai21:34 <mdz> - what should move into main08:07
haggai21:34 <mdz> - Array milestone releases08:07
mdzthat's the one, was just pasting it08:07
mdzwhat is the status of the KDE 3.4 packaging?  do we have everything we care about now?08:08
Riddellremainig 3.4 packages are kdeaccessibility which has compiled but isn't in archive yet, I think we need to poke lamont about that08:08
lamontRiddell: he?08:08
haggaikdebindings (in progress)08:08
lamonteh?08:08
Riddellkdeaddons needs done since it's in main08:08
Riddelllamont: or is it elmo that needs poked?08:08
amui18n should comes also asap08:08
ttfkde-i18n should be done by tomorrow08:08
Riddellwho's doing i18n?08:09
mdzdoes it build new binary packages?08:09
lamontRiddell: s/lamont/elmo/08:09
mdz(kdeaccessibility)08:09
ttfRiddell: me08:09
Riddelllamont: ok08:09
Riddellmdz: I think so08:09
Riddellttf: cool08:09
lamontRiddell: Building/Failed/Dep-wait --> lamont.  Uploaded --> elmo08:09
Riddellkdevelop needs done, that one is tricky08:10
mdzif elmo isn't around, I can do those if it's a blocking issue08:10
haggaiwe also have a small list on KubuntuTODO - not KDE 3.4 but maybe some packages to add08:10
haggaiI mean KubuntuKDEStatus08:11
mdzhave any of you corresponded with elmo/pitti regarding moving packages to main recently?08:11
haggaijust amu I think08:11
mdzare there still changes pending?08:11
mdzlooks like all the kmail stuff is still pending08:12
amuspoke with pitti today, result is we just move gnupg-agent to main08:12
mdzthen you need to change the deps08:12
mdzthe package you uploaded tries to pull in about 10 others08:12
amuyep08:12
mdzok08:12
mdzthere are a couple of FTBFS bugs08:12
haggaicaused by < 3.408:13
=== haggai double checks
mdz7885, 791408:13
=== mdz removes the kubuntu tag from #5379, kino isn't a KDE package, it just smells like one
haggaioops my fault thanks mdz08:13
Riddellhaggai: what's the status of openoffice1-kde ?08:14
haggaiRiddell: I thought it was in now08:14
mdzsomething is trying to pull kdesdk into main08:14
fabbionekdewebdev08:14
fabbioneBuild-Dep on libcvsservice-dev provided by kdesdk08:14
mdzRiddell: there is nothing in queue/new08:14
=== haggai commented in ftbfs bugs about 3.4 upload pending
haggaiopenoffice.org-kde | 1.1.3-8ubuntu1 | http://localhost hoary/universe Packages08:15
haggaiso that needs pulling in08:15
mdzkdeaccessibility_3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu1 was rejected08:15
amuskd just build, guess need 2-3h more in order to upload it .. 08:15
amusdk even 08:15
mdzRejected: file 'kttsd-contrib-plugins_3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu1_i386.deb' has unknown component 'contrib'.08:15
mdzlamont: where to REJECT messages for binary uploads go?08:16
mdzs/to/do/08:16
mdzfabbione: hmm, but libcvsservice-dev doesn't show up in anastacia08:17
mdzah, because it's already in main08:17
haggaihmm, I just realised everything got uploaded with version 4:3.4.0-1 instead of 4:3.4.0ubuntu108:18
fabbionemdz: yes, but it's an old version. the 3.4 one is in universe08:18
Riddellhaggai: such as what?08:18
fabbionemdz: and pulling kdesdk in main means bringing libdb4.008:18
haggaiRiddell: kdebase for example08:18
elmofixed that reject08:19
Riddellhaggai: Version: 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu708:19
haggaiRiddell: oh I mean 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu108:19
mdzfabbione: ah, now I remember08:19
lamontmdz: to the buildd, and thence to me08:19
mdzlamont: did you receive the ones for kdeaccessibility?08:19
fabbionemdz: i know because it's the only package that i am waiting to complete main on sparc :)08:19
haggaiRiddell: oh wierd must've been the wrong chroot08:19
lamontmdz: that is, if the binary is rejected.  for source uploads, they go to the uploader08:19
mdzRiddell: for kdesdk, we need to migrate it to libdb4.208:19
mdzor something else already in main08:19
mdzwe don't want another libdb if we can avoid it08:20
amufabbione: builded it with libdb4.208:20
fabbioneamu: rocking08:20
mdzoh, you already uploaded it?08:20
=== lamont looks
Riddellmdz: ok, I'll try that08:20
mdzRiddell: amu seems to indicate that he did it already08:20
amunope, said before, packages just build and i have first deb's ... need 2-3h more for a review 08:20
mdzok08:20
Riddellcool, I'll leave it to amu 08:21
mdzamu: so that also solves #7914, yes?08:21
amumdz: finally ;)08:21
mdzwho is doing kdeaddons?08:21
lamontmdz: on investigation, yes.  IIRC, they looked like the typical failure that one gets when a new source version is uploaded before the binaries from the prior version finish building.08:21
mdzamu: you also?08:21
lamontelmo: does kdeaccessibility just need a re-upload?08:22
mdzhaggai: add openoffice.org-kde to the kubuntu desktop seed?08:22
mdzlamont: <elmo> fixed that reject08:22
elmolamont: no I fixed it08:22
haggaimdz: yup08:22
elmolamont: you need to notify me about those kind of rejects08:22
RiddellI can do kdeaddons if nobody else is doing it08:22
lamontelmo: thanks08:22
amumdz: not now, guess haggai started it08:22
elmokatie will override stuff from main, she can't/won't override stuff from !main08:22
elmowithout human intervention08:23
lamontelmo: which was it?  contrib component?08:23
elmolamont; yeah08:23
mdzhaggai: done08:23
mdzok08:24
haggaimdz: thanks08:24
haggaiamu: started what?08:24
mdzapart from the things that we already discussed, are there any other blockers for the release candidate?08:24
amukdeaccessibility ? 08:24
haggaiknetworkconf into seeds08:24
mdzI was asking about kdeaddons08:24
mdzhaggai: desktop?08:25
Riddell19:22 < Riddell> I can do kdeaddons if nobody else is doing it08:25
mdzRiddell: yes, and amu said haggai started it08:25
mdzwhoever is doing it, please take bug #791408:25
haggaiI didn't I didn't :)08:25
haggaiamu: my lock is only on kdebindings08:25
mdzRiddell: all yours, it seems08:25
mdzhaggai: confirm knetworkconf for desktop?08:25
Riddelloh goody08:25
haggaimdz: needs to be installed by default on live & install cd.  Is that desktop or desktop + something?08:26
mdzthat's just desktop08:26
mdzlive CD is desktop + live08:26
haggaik thanks08:26
mdzis knetworkconf is good working condition?08:26
amuerr i'm working on the addon's :) thought we speak about kdeaccessibility08:27
mdzdoes it need any adjustments for sudo vs. su or anything like that?08:27
mdz(added to desktop)08:27
haggaimdz: not for sudo but there is a patch pending to make it like [k] ubuntu08:27
Riddellamu: then take back No 7914 :)08:27
haggaimdz: like as in sucessfully detect and use debian config logic08:27
amuknetworkconf, must be checkedout from kde-cvs, than we've also Kubuntu support in it, mailed with upstream last times 08:28
mdzok08:28
mdzit looks like it doesn't have any new dependencies (I hope)08:28
amunope 08:28
mdzelmo: can you do an archive/seed resync tonight to push this stuff through?  if not, I can do it08:28
elmomdz: no; I'm about to leave for London08:29
mdzelmo: ok to teri these bits?08:29
elmomdz: I can do first thing tomorrow, or as you say, you can08:29
elmomdz: what you asking me for?  it's your distro :)08:29
haggaikmilo needs to move from desktop to ship08:29
mdzelmo: you know what you are doing with katie and I do not08:29
Riddellhaggai: why?08:29
amuhaggai: just make a list what must be done with the seed's, i casn handle it08:30
amus/casn/can08:30
haggaiRiddell: we already talked about that earlier - CMOS writing and all that08:30
Riddellhaggai: there's more plugins for kmilo than just thinkpad08:30
haggaiRiddell: oh, that makes it more complicated then08:30
Riddellhaggai: and it does no harm having it there, means the user gets to choose if they explicitly want to ues it08:31
amufabbione: means we've also comming soon a (k)ubuntu4sparc's? 08:31
haggaiRiddell: but looks bad not working out of the box08:31
haggaiRiddell: and the given instructions don't actually work (I tried following them to the letter)08:32
fabbioneamu: kubuntu has been built on sparc. i am only mirring these 2/3 packages that are moving from universe to main08:32
fabbiones/mirring/missing08:33
amufabbione: rocks, both 32/64 bit's 08:33
fabbioneamu: sparc userland is only 32 bit08:33
fabbionebecause it is faster than 6408:34
mdzok, moving on08:34
mdzI think we should aim for a coordinated kubuntu/ubuntu RC release08:34
mdzany issues or concerns with that?08:34
Riddellmdz: sounds good, what's the date?08:34
mdzone week from today08:34
mdzMarch 3008:34
haggaisounds doable08:35
RiddellI agree08:35
mdzthe most crucial part of this is that we have more hands on deck for testing08:35
=== amu nigs
mdzfor the kubuntu preview release, Riddell and I had to do the testing basically between the two of us08:35
Riddellamu: nods?08:35
mdzI am going to have my hands full with Ubuntu this time around08:35
haggaiit happened at the time everyone else was sleeping, and without warning08:35
haggaiI'm happy to be involved in testing this time around08:36
amuRiddell: :) nod,nodding :)08:36
haggaiin fact I've been testing daily already - that's how my LVM setup got trashed...08:36
mdzthere were more folks around when we started the test cycle, but then sleep intervened08:36
mdzwe'll start earlier this time08:37
amuhaggai: guess upgrade is useless since this is kubuntu's first release 08:37
mdzin fact we'll start the day before08:37
mdzdo you guys have enough hardware variety among you to test amd64/i386/powerpc?08:37
haggaiamu: upgrade is nice but secondary importance08:37
haggaiI only have i38608:37
RiddellI can do x86 and probably powerpc08:37
amumdz: i've all of them 08:37
mdzok08:38
mdzif you feel like you're short, try to stir up some volunteers on #kubuntu, kubuntu-users, etc.08:38
mdzit's critical that every image be tested (live and install, all architectures)08:38
mdzif you want to do a DVD release, that needs testing as well08:38
haggaiwe're getting fairly good testing already.  There's a new kubuntu forum too that's had some activity08:38
Riddellmdz: is ubuntu doing a dvd release?08:38
amumdz: i took this task 08:38
mdzI'm not sure that we'll do a DVD for the release candidate of Ubuntu08:38
mdzhaggai: I mean for the test cycle we do before the release08:39
mdzhaggai: ensuring that the final images are tested and good08:39
haggaimdz: ok fair enough08:39
mdzongoing testing of the dailies is great, but it doesn't substitute for testing the finals08:39
haggairight08:39
mdzRiddell: we'll decide that sometime soon, but I think probably not08:39
mdzwe have bandwidth limitations already08:39
haggaieven a bittorent source?08:40
Riddelldo we know what the problem was with X on the live CD?  will that magically get fixed?08:40
mdzthe DVD images are ~2.5G; it's a big load no matter how we distribute it08:40
mdzand it'll dilute the CD torrents08:40
amuhope i can reach lolo, for a kubuntu mirror 08:40
mdzdo you guys have the necessary equipment for DVD writing and testing?08:41
mdzon all architectures?08:41
amumdz: yep08:41
=== Riddell doesn't
mdz(writing for at least one, read/live/install on all)08:41
mdzone of the big headaches with DVD is that it takes forever to download08:41
mdzthis makes the test cycle much longer08:41
mdzan extra 8G or so to download08:41
haggaiI have a DVD writer, need to go get some blanks08:42
mdzwe'll discuss the DVD question for Ubuntu, are you guys happy to follow Ubuntu's lead as to whether we do DVD for the RC or not?08:42
haggaiyup08:43
mdzhas anyone tested a Kubuntu bi-weekly DVD yet?08:43
amumdz: could we delay that question, my internetconnection is still buggy, my isp primised to fix it this week 08:43
mdzamu: if your connection is problematic, we can always change our mind08:44
amuthan i've 4,6MB 08:44
mdzanything else we need to cover?08:44
haggaiwell I have a reasonable connection I can use to test the dvd on i38608:44
mdzI have another meeting in 15m08:44
amumdz: ok08:44
haggaiany baz / source control issues?08:45
Riddellwe need elmo to set one up08:45
haggaiRiddell: you have people lining up to do doc / website stuff right?08:45
Riddellhaggai: yep08:45
haggaiis there any infrastructure for doing remote baz repos yet?08:45
mdznot properly08:46
amuRiddell: webpages are now in baz? 08:46
mdzI believe the plan is to use a zope sftp server08:46
mdzI have no idea of the timeline; elmo would probably be the person to ask08:46
haggaiany short term soln we could use for now?08:46
Riddellamu: nope, but we should find something to put them in08:46
mdzI think we could probably use chinstrap in the short term, at least for the three of you08:46
Riddellwhat is chinstrap?08:47
mdzamu already has an account08:47
mdzRiddell: one of our servers08:47
haggaithere are more than just us though as far as doc / web stuff goes08:47
haggaiwe could use novo for just us08:47
mdzhaggai: we're not going to be able to get this together very soon, I expect08:47
mdzif you use baz, you can always merge third-party branches08:47
mdzif you have other people who need access08:48
mdzwe won't have a facility where we can grant authenticated access to arbitrary people very soon08:48
mdzwe definitely won't be giving out shell accounts to everyone08:48
Riddellsomeone who knows how could set up cvs or svn somewhere08:48
mdzwe'll have either webdav or zope-sftp eventually08:48
mdzcvs and svn have the same issues; might as well use baz08:48
mdz(cvs has worse issues, even)08:49
mdzI'll chat with sabdfl about the revision control situation the next time we talk08:50
mdzanything else?08:50
mdzI need to run08:50
RiddellI think you can run08:50
mdzthanks, guys08:50
haggaicheers08:50
amucheers08:50
Riddellhaggai, amu, ttf: going to Sydney?08:50
ttfRiddell: nope08:53
amuRiddell: yep08:55
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:lamont] : Tuesday 29 March 2005 20:00 UTC: Technical Board -- https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Wed 30 March 2005 20:00 UTC: Kernel Team -- https://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/KernelTeamAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
haggaiRiddell: no08:59
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