[12:19] <allee> Anyone knows where one places a DSDT so mkinitrd appends it?   Or a good RTFM pointer?
[12:23] <jimmyw> heya all , im just after breaking xandros for the 2nd time in 2 weeks and it seems im not the only one , so now im downloading kubuntu, would anyone be able to answer a few questions for me?
[12:24] <allee> jimmyw: I can try
[12:24] <wickie> allee: I compiled mine into the kernel.
[12:25] <allee> wickie: that what I want to prevent ;)
[12:26] <allee> I checked kern.log.  Now it looks like no DSDT patch is applied (or ubuntu changed printks?)
[12:27] <jimmyw> allee: thanks, since kubuntu is really ubuntu with kde instead of gnome , will the packages released for ubuntu work perfectly on kubuntu?
[12:27] <apokryphos> They will, yes.
[12:27] <allee> jimmyw: yes.
[12:27] <kidzeus> Hey. I just installed kubuntu-desktop to my hoary installation, and now when I run synaptic and go to upgrade packages, it tells me that it's going to remove ubuntu-base. and I can't unmark it. Will this screw my gnome?
[12:27] <apokryphos> Nope.
[12:28] <apokryphos> Ubuntu-base is a metapackage... removing it won't remove anything else.
[12:28] <jimmyw> allee: have you ever used xandros , mepis before using kubuntu ?
[12:28] <allee> jimmyw: no.  Never saw a reason before kubuntu to try a debian flavor
[12:29] <kidzeus> thanks. was kinda worried
[12:29] <jimmyw> hmm ok, sorry for the questions , just tryin to decide on which distro to go for , i thought i had it with xandros but ...
[12:30] <apokryphos> If you like KDE, Kubuntu is great.
[12:30] <jimmyw> apokryphos: yeah i installed ubuntu about a month ago and i liked it except for gnome, we use gnome in college and i just dont like it, probably from using windows for so long
[12:31] <jimmyw> is kubuntu totally stable since its still only a preview release?
[12:31] <apokryphos> Not totally stable; technically in "developement", as is all of Hoary.
[12:31] <dimmak> i just don't like not being able to right click and edit lots of properties in gnome... and the spatial file manager by default is sooo annoying for me
[12:31] <jimmyw> apokryphos:  have you had any probs with it?
[12:32] <apokryphos> but, as far as I've seen the majority of the community is using Hoary. At least nearly everyone on IRC.
[12:32] <dimmak> and that can't be disabled on the machines at my university
[12:32] <dimmak> but at least i can login under kde there
[12:32] <apokryphos> jimmyw: there are a few little tweaks that need to be done (sudo stuff needs to be finalized; one or two broken dependencies still), but generally it's been great.
[12:32] <jimmyw> dimmak: i wish we could here, its stupid ,the admins (maybe rightly) are so protective of their linux boxes
[12:32] <dimmak> what school?
[12:33] <kidzeus> that's funny jimmy, cause I tend to prefer Gnome, and I've been using OS X for a while now.
[12:33] <jimmyw> apokryphos: its sounding very good, do g++ and other development tools come preinstalled?
[12:33] <jimmyw> dimmak:  ul , ireland
[12:33] <kidzeus> I wouldn't mind being able to change my screen res on the fly with my ati. any word on that?
[12:33] <apokryphos> jimmyw: Pre-installed... I'm not sure. But the vast majority of compile necessities come with one package; easily installable.
[12:34] <jimmyw> kidzeus: i used to work for symantec for a while and i used a max there, i LOVE the look of os x, i dont think any desktop can match it yet
[12:34] <jimmyw> apokryphos:  ah yeah, thats ok , xandros didnt come with any development tools 
[12:34] <kidzeus> yeah, I must say I've yet to see it's match for usability and pleasure. at least for my own needs
[12:34] <apokryphos> jimmyw: just download the "build-essential" package.
[12:34] <jimmyw> oh , i dont spose anyone knows if kubuntu supports nvidia opengl by default?
[12:34] <kidzeus> but I figured it was long past due I hop into linux, and ubuntu is treating me right so far
[12:35] <dimmak> i really like mac for "expose" ... sorry no easy way to accent in gaim and i don't memorize the clipboard
[12:35] <apokryphos> jimmyw: it supports it all; drivers can be installed very easily; can get them from the repositories.
[12:35] <dimmak> or character map rather
[12:35] <jimmyw> kidzeus: everything about macs scream finesse, my dad runs a digital imaging lab and they all use macs, he got a mac mini to see what its like, putting asside that its not a powerhouse ,its an incredible setup
[12:36] <kidzeus> expose has changed the way I manouever. Seriously, every time I sit down at a non-mac, I click my middle mouse button and blink when the windows don't all shuffle into smaller versions.
[12:36] <jimmyw> apokryphos: it was a pain in the ass to get nvidia to work with mdk
[12:36] <kidzeus> I like the latest gnome and kdes though. slick. and kde screams.
[12:36] <jimmyw> kidzeus:  haha ,theres probably a medical term for that! :D
[12:36] <apokryphos> jimmyw: Ubuntu is the opposite. :) 
[12:37] <jimmyw> apokryphos: excellent <-- in mr.byrnes voice :D
[12:37] <dimmak> yeah... i would love if windows tile feature didn't suck
[12:37] <jimmyw> 44 mins til my iso is finished downloading :D
[12:37] <dimmak> but kde is just fine for me
[12:37] <apokryphos> cool :)
[12:37] <dimmak> an expose port would be welcomed
[12:37] <kidzeus> but I do have a problem burning cds. Apparently 2.6 kernel doesn't handle scsi emulation, which I didn't realize I needed. I downloaded three burning apps, including graveman, and I can't burn a disc
[12:38] <kidzeus> problem with expose port is that expose uses mac's graphics core. so it doesn't actually bother the main processor. means I can watch video in one little window, or while it zooms in or out, and see everything in the other windows live with no slow down
[12:38] <jimmyw> kidzeus:  ya try k3b?
[12:39] <kidzeus> no. should I?
[12:39] <kidzeus> one sec. lemme change this nick
[12:39] <jimmyw> kidzeus:  yeah its a great burning tool ,sorta neroesque
[12:39] <taki> there we go. 
[12:39] <taki> will download it now
[12:39] <jimmyw> anyone here from ireland?
[12:40] <taki> I also would love to see ndiswrapper preinstalled. as a total newb, it took me a few days to get my wifi card running
[12:40] <apokryphos> jimmyw: not that I know of, but there's at least a couple of Brits. :P
[12:40] <jimmyw> im reading really good reviews about kubuntu here
[12:41] <taki> man, I love how easy it is to switch between the two windows systems
[12:41] <jimmyw> apokryphos: over here we are really lucky with the downloading of linux distros, HEA or higher education authority have huge servers of linux distros and they are really fast so we can download whatever flavour pretty quickly , i think the uk have a similar setup
[12:42] <jimmyw> if you have ubuntu installed and then you decide to download kde for it, is it the same as kubuntu or no?
[12:42] <apokryphos> I'm not sure if we do, but that sounds really sweet
[12:43] <jimmyw> apokryphos:  you from uk? where abouts?
[12:43] <apokryphos> jimmyw: pretty much. There's a few kubuntu tweaks. See: www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/installingKDE
[12:43] <apokryphos> London
[12:43] <jimmyw> ive never been to london , always wanted to go ,maybe when i finish college this year
[12:44] <taki> kubuntu-desktop is available for package download. it adds all the functionality of kubuntu, I believe, with no loss. I have both now
[12:44] <jimmyw> taki: can ya choose when logging in which to go for?
[12:44] <taki> but lord do I have a ton of apps populating my k menu. too many to find things
[12:44] <apokryphos> You're quite right, taki. Essentially, the kubuntu tweaks are mainly contained in the "kubuntu-default-settings" package. There's still tweaks on other progs like KDM, though.
[12:44] <apokryphos> jimmyw: course.
[12:45] <taki> yeah, you can choose default, and every time at login you have th eopportunity to switch
[12:45] <taki> also, you can switch easily by using ctrl-alt-backspace and relogging
[12:46] <jimmyw> damnit! i have the ubuntu disk sittin in my drawer beside me! i could have just installed that and downloaded kde-desktop
[12:46] <apokryphos> kubuntu-desktop, yes :P
[12:46] <jimmyw> <-- king of wasting time and bandwidth  , lol!
[12:46] <taki> What's the file browser app in kde?
[12:47] <apokryphos> Konqueror
[12:47] <taki> Oh, duh. thanks
[12:47] <jimmyw> taki:  i was just reading there that kubuntu-desktop comes with k3b as default, you might already have it installed
[12:48] <jimmyw> ah i spose im better off getting kubuntu since its the hoarty , is it difficult to upgrade warthog to hoarty?
[12:48] <apokryphos> Nope, very easy. Takes the editing of one file and two commands.
[12:49] <jimmyw> is the download big?
[12:49] <apokryphos> Quite, yes.
[12:49] <apokryphos> Around 500 megs, I'd guess at.
[12:49] <jimmyw> oh right, so i might as well just wait for kubuntu to download :D
[12:49] <taki> I do. Using it now:) will let you know if it works
[12:50] <jimmyw> taki: cool
[12:50] <taki> so far so good. got past where the others did. thanks:)
[12:50] <jimmyw> apokryphos:  when hoary(i now learned the spelling :) ) becomes stable , will it be easy to update kubuntu to stable version?
[12:50] <jimmyw> taki: fingers crossed :)
[12:50] <apokryphos> jimmyw: Very easily; that's the glory of Debian-based systems. It takes only two commands to do so.
[12:51] <jimmyw> i gotta tell yas, im really liking the sound of this , but im still a little annoyed that xandros didnt work out , i really liked that system
[12:53] <apokryphos> Never tried it, but sounds reasonable.
[12:54] <jimmyw> apokryphos: been using linux long?
[12:54] <apokryphos> Just under a year now, I think.
[12:54] <jimmyw> go back to windows much?
[12:55] <apokryphos> I don't think I've logged into Windoze, at home, for a few months now. 
[12:55] <taki> rock on. I know have my package archive saved to disc. all 500 megs worth;) thanks Jimmy
[12:56] <jimmyw> taki:  no probs :)
[12:56] <taki> so now when I reinstall ubuntu, I can just install them all from here?
[12:56] <jimmyw> taki: when i get kubuntu installed would ya mind telling me how to do that? that would be extremely handy incase anything goes pear shaped somewhere down the line
[12:57] <LeeJunFan> taki: I'm on about 10G mirroring amd64 and i386 right now :)
[12:57] <taki> no prob. I found 'em in /var/cache/apt/archives/
[12:57] <jimmyw> so you can put in your burned cd , add the path to synaptic and just reinstall em all?
[12:58] <taki> with synaptic you just make sure not to select clean cache immediately.
[12:58] <taki> yeah, synaptic has that option where you add resources. you can add a cd
[12:58] <taki> haven't tried it yet
[12:58] <jimmyw> thats brillaitn
[12:58] <jimmyw> brilliant even
[12:59] <taki> and kubuntu has kynaptic. don't see a tab or button or option for modifying sources there, though
[12:59] <LeeJunFan> kynaptic blows - use synaptic.
[12:59] <taki> I run synaptic from kde in a terminal, though. if you don't have it default, I suppose you can download it
[12:59] <LeeJunFan> or better yet - just use apt-get
[12:59] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan:  can ya use synaptic with kubuntu ?
[12:59] <apokryphos> Kynaptic is pretty primitive at the mo.
[12:59] <jimmyw> or does it just allow kynaptic?
[12:59] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: sure can. you can use any of ubuntu
[12:59] <taki> yeah, will probably switch to apt-get. but seems more complicated for doing things like setting the resource to a cd
[01:00] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: open konsole, sudo apt-get install synaptic
[01:00] <taki> so will upgrading to the final version of hoary require anything more than apt-get installing?
[01:01] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan: thanks! , i dont mean to be smart , but i think il be on this chan quite a bit when im finding my feet with kubuntu
[01:01] <LeeJunFan> taki: actually I found editing /etc/apt/sources.list to be easier. Just one line to change then, not 10 boxes.
[01:01] <apokryphos> taki: apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade. Nothing more.
[01:01] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: it's worth it. I just switched from mandrake a couple days ago.
[01:01] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: I've been running Mandrake for about 6 yrs and redhat for a couple before that. They both stink.
[01:01] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan: great , cos im using mdk10.1 at the mo, well whatya think ?
[01:02] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: compared to ubuntu anyway. I just didn't like the path they were taking with their overbranding and customizing.
[01:02] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: now I just have to upgrade my servers to ubuntu.
[01:03] <jimmyw> yeah thats why i said i think mdk is too cumbersome, its like a corporate gleam over linux or something
[01:03] <taki> thank lee and apok for the two heads-ups. I suppose I should have realized that I could add the cd into sources.list. that's where I changed my settings anyway. what's the syntax for adding the cd?
[01:03] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: yep, and they are getting more and more corporate-anal every day. I've contributed to cooker for as long as I've used mandrake, and 10.2 was just too much crap for me.
[01:04] <jimmyw> oh thats another thing, i have my samba server setup in mdk, using swat , in xandros it came preconfigured and was childsplay to change, whats kubuntu like for setting up swat?
[01:04] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan: i installed 10.2 rc about a week ago and immediately got rid, didnt like it at all
[01:04] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: swat and webmin are only an apt-get away. ;)
[01:05] <taki> I'm going to have to start hunting for how to set up my linux so I can see my powerbook and vice versa. do I need to make use of samba? totally clueless.
[01:05] <jimmyw> eggs cellent :D
[01:05] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: yeah, I wanted a sleeker less adulterated linux. And the article for ubuntu/kubuntu just happened to be on slashdot when I was looking for a debianlike distro.
[01:05] <jimmyw> taki:  there is an apple share, ive never used it but webmin lets you set it up
[01:06] <LeeJunFan> taki swat will be a big help - Samba has SOOO many options.
[01:06] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan: i had half if mepis downloaded but stopped cos i read better things about ubuntu, and then kubuntu
[01:06] <taki> thanks guys. swat and webmin. will look.
[01:06] <jimmyw> yeah i agree ,swat is so handy
[01:07] <apokryphos> Mepis seems great too; heard good things about it. Community isn't nearly as big as Ubuntu, though. 
[01:07] <apokryphos> IRC comparison is... dazzling.
[01:08] <LeeJunFan> I wish my mirror would hurry up. I want to install 386 version on my other partition so I can run vmware and get some work done. I hate relying on windows for radio/topo mapping software. heheh
[01:08] <jimmyw> hehe
[01:09] <jimmyw> i had awfull trouble with mkd a while ago tryin to get it to compile a wrapper for me, i had to use 3 wrappers in conjunction and 2 of them needed different versions of g++ ,such a pain in the ass finding which ones were needed
[01:09] <jimmyw> 11 mins left :)
[01:09] <taki> the k7 optomized kernel... make a noticeable difference?
[01:09] <LeeJunFan> apokryphos: yeah, I looked too when I was switching distro's. I noticed the only distro that had more IRC users was debian. And ubuntu had even more than #linux. :)
[01:10] <jimmyw> apokryphos: oh thats what you meant by irc comparison :)
[01:10] <apokryphos> Well, Gentoo is the largest out there, IIRC. :P
[01:10] <LeeJunFan> taki: somewhat - but so much stuff won't compile for amd64 w/o a hassle, and prebuilt binaries like my modem driver and vmware won't work. Right now openoffice is br0ke.
[01:10] <jimmyw> has anyone here installed gentoo? its sposed to take AGES to get setup cos of having to compile everything
[01:10] <taki> and if I install it (the k7 build), do I have to reinstall other stuff that's linked to specific headers? I'm thinking ndiswrapper here, and maybe mplayer had a k7 build.
[01:10] <taki> I've heard great things about gentoo, except not for newbs. so I didn't bother.
[01:11] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: nope, and that's why I haven't. I want a distro I can take on a DVD and go to a friends house and convert them even if they don't have a 1Gbps internet connection :)
[01:11] <wkenny> got a quick question about sudo in kubuntu... I just installed the kubuntu preview release of hoary... it is asking for a password for sudo whereas the regular ubuntu doesn't... do I need to configure something for it?
[01:11] <taki> Regular ubuntu does ask. Unless you open a root terminal
[01:11] <LeeJunFan> wkenny: it sure does. use your user pass.
[01:11] <wkenny> aaah, okay, thanks
[01:12] <LeeJunFan> taki: which you can't do unless you sudo -s first w/ a password and setup a root password :)
[01:12] <LeeJunFan> taki: catch22 there.
[01:12] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan:  its funny you should say that , cos i feel both good and bad, good that i converted 4 of my mates to linux via xandros, bad that i discovered it has big flaws...might be popping round with kubuntu tomorrow  hehe
[01:12] <taki> actually, there's a root terminal link in the apps/system folder. opens right up
[01:12] <wkenny> really, okay, that makes it a bit easier.
[01:12] <_b> I just installed kubuntu, and was disappointed to see it didn't install x-chat
[01:13] <wkenny> that said, I'm extremely impressed with kubuntu...
[01:13] <apokryphos> _b: well, it is a KDE-based distro.
[01:13] <_b> Konversation seems ok, but I miss the pre-installed server list
[01:13] <jimmyw> _b a good few distros ive tried didnt come with it , xchat rocks
[01:13] <apokryphos> I don't know why people would use x-chat when Konversation is out there, but hey.
[01:13] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: ah well, technology moves fast. That's the way it goes, what's good one day is old and busted the next. I've got a couple people converted already myself.
[01:13] <_b> irc noob here, is there some way I can load all that stuff into konversation in one shot?
[01:13] <tehkgb> thanks again y'all
[01:13] <taki> I'll have to check out x-chat. I'm on snak on the mac right now while I do some stuff on k/ubuntu
[01:14] <apokryphos> _b: all the channels? Course.
[01:14] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan: i reckon these new user friendly distros and live cds that come free with magazines are converting thousands
[01:14] <apokryphos> taki: don't :P. Konvi is much better. =)
[01:14] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: Everyone knew me as a mdk evangelist for the most part, and they really couldn't believe it when I tried kubuntu and removed my local mandrake mirrors, deleted my system backup, repartitioned, and threw away 6 years of mdk discs.
[01:14] <LeeJunFan> :)
[01:14] <jimmyw> apokryphos: never tried konvi, whats it like?
[01:14] <_b> apok, xchat lets a newbie just go ahead and use it, konversation has nothing but #kde on there
[01:14] <apokryphos> jimmyw: Konversation. It's excellent.
[01:14] <jimmyw> jesus, really LeeJunFan ? thats a big step isnt it?
[01:14] <_b> apokryphos: , sorry, shortened your name
[01:15] <apokryphos> _b: erm, what? I think it's pretty user-friendly.
[01:15] <apokryphos> x-chat is ugly :P
[01:15] <jimmyw> never tried konversation , im using xchat at the mo, i must say i really like it so :P apokryphos  hehe
[01:15] <jimmyw> 5 mins !!!
[01:15] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: yep. I was so impressed with the fact that ubuntu was not overbloated with automated crap I couldn't keep up with, and it was much lighter and more pure.
[01:16] <_b> I'm talking about the server list, apokryphos -- that's what I'm asking.  with x-chat i didn't have to go googling or whatever for server names and channels
[01:16] <taki> Okay, before I go to konvi, I get a message at the end of the webmin install. saying it uses a seperate password file, and that a root password was generated frm that file. but when I open the file in an editor, I see nothing
[01:16] <_b> as I guess I have to do... 
[01:16] <_b> with Konversation
[01:16] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: Mandrake was always doing something stupid that caused me grief - one was ifplug, I love having a server that reset all my routes and what not because a switch lost power or a machine it was crossed over to got rebooted. Just lame.
[01:17] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan: member you said mdk was becoming really corporate? well i just remebered we had a "linux event" in our college run my mdk and they gave away free cd's of mdk 10.1 and quick start guide, they are really chasing down the market
[01:17] <apokryphos> _b: Ubuntu has a server list. Don't know why you have to go Googling... Freenode is pretty much the only one to use.
[01:17] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: of course it only took 1-2 times before I decided I better either get rid of it or learn to configure it, but that was just ONE thing.
[01:17] <apokryphos> *Konversation, not Ubuntu
[01:17] <jimmyw> taki: with webmin you can use root as user and yer root pass and pass
[01:18] <_b> apokryphos: I am not on drugs here.  I know what I'm looking at: Server list -- freenode.  That's all it says.
[01:18] <jimmyw> ooh 2:30 left , blank cd is in the burner, k3b is open... im all prepped hehe
[01:18] <_b> maybe you haven't used x-chat and don't know what I'm referring to
[01:18] <LeeJunFan> taki: yeah, only the way ubuntu doesn't setup a root password your root pass in webmin after setup will be disabled. you'll have to cut/paste your root passwd from /etc/shadow to /etc/webmin/miniserv.users
[01:18] <apokryphos> _b: I have used it. When did I deny that it says Freenode? I'm lost.
[01:19] <apokryphos> You seem to be complaining because Konversation doesn't automatically come with a list of servers, right?
[01:19] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan: thats weird, how come webmin doesnt have root login as default?
[01:19] <_b> jesus, apokryphos , scroll up if you care.  X-chat comes with a very large list of servers.  A newbie doesn't have to add stuff; konversation just presents me with blanks to fill in.
[01:20] <trans_err> LeeJunFan: it does, but only if you have a root account with an actual password
[01:20] <jimmyw> 50 seconds ... 
[01:20] <taki> How do I open webmin? I can't seem to find it
[01:20] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: by default it takes the one from the system when you set it up - only in ubuntu root passwd is * (disabled) by default. Which is why you have to use sudo, and sudo -s to get a root shell.
[01:20] <jimmyw> oh right ,sorry
[01:20] <trans_err> taki: localhost:10000
[01:20] <apokryphos> _b: Well geez, I'm sorry to hear that it's so terribly user-unfriendly because it doesn't give you a list of servers. 
[01:20] <jimmyw> taki go to web browser type https://localhost:10000
[01:21] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: if you set a root password before installing webmin it should use that ok.
[01:21] <apokryphos> Speaking of user-unfriendliness.. I don't see all these button options on the side of xchat with Whois, Version, Kick, Part, Ban, Quit etc...
[01:21] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan: i think i better do that, the lads i live with arent that gentle with pc's :)
[01:22] <apokryphos> though admittedly it does it differently ;)
[01:22] <_b> yes, apokryphos , I "seem" to be noting that fact yes; no "seems" about it; that was what I said.  Very simple.  Doesn't start with a list of servers.  Simple fact.  If it's preferable to you that that is so, great.  Works for you.  For me xchat was much more convenient.  You are way too defensive about apps beginning with "k".
[01:22] <LeeJunFan> hey, what do I press to "start"? There's a K where my "start" usually is and I don't dare press it because I think it means "K"ill. :)
[01:23] <apokryphos> _b: Way to defensive? I think it's a wholly ungrounded to critisize Konversation as necessarily unfriendly because it doesn't give you a list of servers.
[01:23] <taki> Okay, I didn't set a root password, and I'm unsure what to do now. and it says the host has been blocked due to too many unauthorized attempts
[01:23] <apokryphos> How does the newbie know to go on Freenode, even when it's presented there?
[01:24] <_b> I was talking about newbies to irc, apokryphos .  I don't need to be a power user, I need to find channels. Which I'm googling for now, since evidently my original, simple request for help was apparently inappropriate here.
[01:24] <apokryphos> a newbie to IRC will emphatically NOT know that Freenode is gonna be the channel they're likely to spend 99% of their time on.
[01:24] <_b> I didn't say it was "unfriendly" apokryphos , lighten up, would you?  I said I preferred xchat, for my needs.
[01:24] <jimmyw> ooh im burning now , yesh yesh!
[01:25] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan: you have a bluetooth phone?
[01:25] <taki> apokry, what was that you were saying about using sudo -s to open a root terminal? then what?
[01:25] <apokryphos> _b: "xchat lets a newbie just go ahead and use it, konversation has nothing but #kde on there". If you're not insinuating that it's user-unfriendly there, then..
[01:26] <LeeJunFan> I don't think computers should be user friendly. They should be productive, if you're too dumb to be productive then you don't need a computer. :)
[01:26] <_b> apokryphos: did I run over your cat or something? 
[01:26] <apokryphos> taki: you can just use sudo for any command you wanna do with root priveldges.
[01:26] <taki> I'm not down with that at all LeeJun. For 95% of computer users, they definitely need to be friendly. like a car or a toaster or any other appliance
[01:26] <jimmyw> taki: there might be a way to set root password from start menu, im not sure in ubuntu cos i havent used it, is there a control centre?
[01:26] <taki> No, I mean for getting into webmin
[01:27] <apokryphos> _b: Not at all. Despite what you might think, I'm not anti-gnome or anti-gtk at all. I think some of their apps are great. When I think a criticism is unfair though, I'll explain why I think it is. :)
[01:27] <taki> yeah, it's there
[01:27] <LeeJunFan> taki: no they don't. Should we dumn down 747's too :)
[01:27] <taki> 747s aren't for every home.
[01:27] <jimmyw> taki: type this in console :  sudo passwd root
[01:27] <taki> 747s are operated by specially trained folks because lives are at stake, and there's no way to really fix that well yet.
[01:28] <apokryphos> _b: Dislike cats :P; more of a dogs person (though don't have one myself =)).
[01:28] <jimmyw> then set the root pass, webmin pass should be same, LeeJunFan  might be able to help you better,im not taht familiar with it
[01:28] <LeeJunFan> taki: exactly. Dumbing down a 747 would basically mean turning it into a cessena. We don't want a dumbed down linux with less "confusing" features, that's what windows is for. Linux is the 747.
[01:28] <taki> computers, 90 some percent of the time, are for everyday people to help them do work or for entertainment. therefor they definitely should be made as easy to use as possible. I'm not saying don't have options for power users
[01:28] <_b> Who the heck is talking about gnome?  and I "insinuated" nothing.  I came here for help (to find out if there was a quick way to load a bunch of servers into the server list in one swoop)  and just got this tirade.
[01:28] <apokryphos> taki: sudo -s will have you in a root terminal
[01:29] <LeeJunFan> taki: ok. close enough.
[01:29] <taki> problem is, webmin took its initial password from the alrady existant root password. which didn't exist. I gues I can reinstall it
[01:29] <LeeJunFan> :)
[01:29] <LeeJunFan> taki: no need.
[01:29] <LeeJunFan> taki: sudo -s
[01:30] <jimmyw> guys, thanks for all the help, ive just burned it, gonna install now,il be back in a while to give ya my first impressions :)  if yas are still here hehe
[01:30] <apokryphos> _b: hence the "anti-gtk" added in. I'm sorry, but you might have "just" come in for that, but... by the way, "insinuated nothing" is meaningless. You clearly did; I don't think you're in the business of making vacuous sentences, as I amen't.
[01:30] <apokryphos> _b: I answered your question that you can load a bunch of servers on startup...
[01:31] <LeeJunFan> taki: then vi /etc/shadow, copy the crap between the first and second : (that's your encrypted pass). Then :q to quit vi. Then vi /etc/webmin/miniserv.users press 'i' to enter insert mode - remove the * and paste your password in it's place.
[01:31] <_b> apokryphos: my original comment:  "Konversation seems ok, but I miss the pre-installed server list."  For that you act as if pulled out a flame thrower.
[01:31] <taki> jimmy, how do I change root's password in Password & User Account? it only gives me the option for my regular login account
[01:31] <apokryphos> _b: That is not true. I made no response to that comment.
[01:31] <_b> "seems ok"  to mild praise for you?  Hey apokryphos , it's god's gift!  happy?
[01:32] <apokryphos> I never said that you hated it; I simply thought that your criticism of it was ungrounded. What's the big deal
[01:33] <_b> There was no criticism, apokryphos , there was the comment that "I missed the server list."
[01:33] <apokryphos> Konversation is what does it for me; xchat does it for others. Whatever floats your boat.
[01:33] <apokryphos> _b: Again, as I said, I made no response to *that* comment.
[01:33] <taki> Ah, didn't realize he vanished. LJF, do you know where I change the password for root?
[01:33] <_b> Yes you did; you contradicted it, implying that Konversation was not lacking anything that x-chat had
[01:34] <apokryphos> taki: sudo passwd
[01:34] <apokryphos> Contradicting it does not mean that I responded to it. Please check what I wrote; my response was to your, ""xchat lets a newbie just go ahead and use it, konversation has nothing but #kde on there"
[01:34] <apokryphos> _b: I have never said, nor implied, that konversation is not lacking anything that xchat has. I have no idea.
[01:34] <_b> anyway, this is one way to keep me using the damn thing!  Instead of apt-getting x-chat, which I'm doing ... now-- gnight.
[01:35] <_b> lord, apokryphos , get some sleep man.
[01:35] <apokryphos> _b: Good night :). I'm sorry for the hassle, but hey. ;)
[01:35] <LeeJunFan> yeah, look above.
[01:36] <LeeJunFan> taki: that's how you change the password in webmin anyway. if you just want to change the root password just do sudo passwd root
[01:36] <LeeJunFan> taki: but that won't change your webmin pass automatically.
[01:37] <taki> leejunfan, sorry to be a bother, but when you say copy between first and second in shadow, I'm unclear on what is 'first' and what is 'second'
[01:38] <LeeJunFan> taki: first : and second : - the colons
[01:41] <taki> Thanks. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to have worked. I believe from what it said at configuration that it takes the password from the .users file the first time it starts.
[01:41] <LeeJunFan> taki: grep ^kidzeus/etc/shadow | awk -F : '{print $2}'
[01:41] <LeeJunFan> taki: that'll print out your encrypted pass.
[01:42] <LeeJunFan> taki: assuming your username on the system we are talking about is kidzeus
[01:43] <LeeJunFan> taki: then take that and replace the * in /etc/webmin/miniserv.users where it says root:*
[01:44] <taki> Sorry to be so clueless, but where does it print it? the terminal where I typed it in is just hanging
[01:44] <LeeJunFan> taki: ctrl-c
[01:45] <LeeJunFan> taki: it shouldn't. crap - there should be a space between ^kidzeus and /etc...
[01:45] <taki> right, that gets me out of the hang, but I still don't see the password. I had found it in the shadow file earlier. ah, okay. retry
[01:45] <LeeJunFan> grep ^kidzeus /etc/shadow | awk -F : '{print $2}'
[01:46] <taki> needs a sudo to execute, and then just gives me the prompt with no output
[01:46] <LeeJunFan> taki: sudo -s
[01:47] <LeeJunFan> taki: that will make you become root in the shell.
[01:47] <taki> sorry, my bad. forgot the colon after F. got it
[01:47] <LeeJunFan> taki: ok, now you need to copy/paste that whole line in /etc/webmin/miniserv.users - remove the * and put the pass key in there.
[01:49] <taki> access denied from too many wrong entries;) I'll try again in a bit
[01:50] <LeeJunFan> taki: you might have to /etc/init.d/webmin restart to get it to load the passes again.
[01:51] <taki> woot! thanks:)
[01:51] <taki> all good
[01:51] <LeeJunFan> taki: cool.
[01:52] <LeeJunFan> taki: and think of what you just learned as opposed to just uninstalling and re-installing webmin after setting a root pass :)
[01:52] <taki> Oh, I will. I appreciate it.
[01:53] <LeeJunFan> np.
[01:53] <taki> Gonna spend some time learning unix commands as soon as I get things setup half decently.
[01:53] <LeeJunFan> taki: yeah, you'll find grep,awk,sed,head,tail,cut,expr and quite a few others very useful.
[01:54] <LeeJunFan> taki: those are probably the most used.
[01:54] <LeeJunFan> taki: well - for scripting type stuff anyway. Of course mkdir, rm, ls, are used more for disk operations :)
[01:55] <LeeJunFan> wow - old school, the dukes of hazzard are on tv.
[01:55] <taki> Those I've got somewhat of a handle on. the file ones
[01:56] <taki> ha. man I loved that show
[01:56] <LeeJunFan> taki: when I was in second grade my class wrote in to the show and they sent us all autographed group pictures of the cast
[01:57] <LeeJunFan> At least I think it was 2nd grade - that was a long time ago :)
[01:58] <LeeJunFan> taki: it's funny, as I remember it Daisy looked better.
[01:59] <LeeJunFan> owell, off to get some laundry done. later.
[02:02] <taki> me, I was in 4th, I think. But god I loved it. Later LJ
[02:08] <taki> okay. late here. later all
[02:08] <taki> thanks so much for the help
[02:28] <phxguy> Can anybody in here help me with my screensavers???
[02:42] <jw> heyas all
[02:42] <jw> im back in mandrake :(
[02:43] <jimmyw> grrr says I to the installation
[02:43] <jimmyw> GRR!
[02:43] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan:  ya here?
[02:54] <jimmyw> could anyone please give me some help? i just installed kubuntu and i need some advice
[02:54] <dimmak> what's up?
[02:55] <dimmak> jimmyw: how can i help?
[02:56] <jimmyw> heya dimmak , installed it , it setup my network connection automatically (which i didnt want) it failed to detect my nvidia graphics card and my mouse, so in command prompt i did xorgconfig , got kde loaded up  but cant get my network settings changed
[02:58] <LeeJunFan> heya.
[02:58] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: edit /etc/network/interfaces
[02:58] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: man interfaces
[02:59] <jimmyw> i dont mean to sound like a muppet but is there no config tool ? im a bit disappointed initially by the whole thing
[03:00] <jimmyw> i think the control centre is rubbish too :|
[03:00] <dimmak> if it doesn't "just work" you are usually gonna have to edit some config files
[03:00] <dimmak> what distribution are you migrating from?
[03:00] <jimmyw> dimmak: true, but i thought it would "hold my hand" along the way :)
[03:00] <jimmyw> from mdk and xandros, i had it easy til now hehe
[03:01] <Quest-Master> jimmyw: http://www.ubuntuguide.org
[03:01] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: you learn more by being in the front lines with your system. :)
[03:01] <Quest-Master> jimmyw: MDK and Xandros hold your hand, but the ease of use comes at a cost. ;)
[03:01] <dimmak> this has been my favored distro so far... with knoppix for troubleshooting systems
[03:02] <dimmak> i only had to get it to detect my 2405fpw properly
[03:02] <dimmak> but on my laptop it is perfect
[03:02] <Quest-Master> Only Knoppix for cases when I need a Live GUI
[03:02] <LeeJunFan> dimmak: I'm suprized as heck everything on my brand new lappy worked right out of install.
[03:02] <dimmak> yeah... the thing even standby's and wakes up properly
[03:03] <dimmak> total surprise
[03:03] <jimmyw> ok fuckit lads, im gonna try get ubuntu working cos i heard so much good about it, Quest-Master thats tutorial looks like it has all i need to get started
[03:03] <LeeJunFan> 1680x1050 screen, built in minipci wireless, mouse & touchpad, etc.
[03:03] <dimmak> i was impressed that all the touchpad buttons worked just fine
[03:04] <dimmak> i usually have to edit the config files... everything works for a while... then something happens and the files revert and i need to redo the process
[03:04] <ggilbert_> hehe I had to fiddle with my xorg.conf file to make X work reasonably :p
[03:04] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: there you go man :) linux is like a martial art - it's not easy along the way, but in the end when you can kick everyone's ass you realize that wasn't important after all - it was the journey that was important.
[03:04] <dimmak> ggilbert_: i had to do a modeline thing for my display
[03:04] <dimmak> but now i am cruising at 1920x1200
[03:04] <ggilbert_> same
[03:05] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan: lol! they should have you doin commercials!
[03:05] <jimmyw> ggilbert_: yeah i had to mess with my xorg.conf too, im a bit disheartened that it didnt pickup my mouse!! 
[03:06] <dimmak> that kind of marketing wouldn't bring in fresh faces though
[03:06] <jimmyw> and kde 3.4 doesnt look that fantastic :(   
[03:06] <dimmak> just keep the current faces spirits up
[03:06] <ggilbert_> it didnt get either my 2005fpw or my coworkers apple cinema displays
[03:06] <dimmak> make sure to anti alias those fonts
[03:06] <dimmak> yeah... hopefully that is remedied for the future
[03:07] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: I will agree with you on X, normally I like to get down and dirty with text files, but X, and sendmail are just !@#!@'ing crap when it comes to configuring them by hand for a newbie.
[03:07] <dimmak> is was a single line of code that got me working fine
[03:07] <ggilbert_> it did work on my powerbook out of the box
[03:08] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan: true, i mean for intents and purposes it is working for me ,but i mean i couldnt get onto irc cos i gotta configure my ethernet to a specific ip 
[03:08] <dimmak> i find that setting up linux requires two computers going to get it done quickly
[03:09] <jimmyw> dimmak: yeah that would have been awfull handy! but alls i have is one
[03:09] <regeya_> one for setting up, one for irc? ;-)
[03:09] <Quest-Master> dimmak: It certainly helps, yes
[03:09] <Quest-Master> regeya_: Yes. :)
[03:09] <jimmyw> and its a shitty dell at that
[03:09] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: yeah, you know what I would like to see instead of all these distro's doing config tools on their own? A tool that basically just asks you questions about what you want to do, and directs you to the manpages and documention to do it. That would be a HUGE help for newbs.
[03:10] <jimmyw> tahts true, sorta like a synaptic but instead of finding programs,its a directory of man's
[03:10] <ggilbert_> isn't that yelp?
[03:10] <LeeJunFan> a nice ncurses thing that can run in any console/window. Not something that actually does it, but teaches people and points them in the right direction.
[03:10] <LeeJunFan> ggilbert_: is it?
[03:10] <ggilbert_> I think so
[03:10] <dimmak> screw the newbs... i want to see torrent based repositories or something.
[03:11] <LeeJunFan> ggilbert_: I'm checking now.
[03:11] <ggilbert_> ugh. no bittorrent :)
[03:11] <ggilbert_> then I can't get updates while at work :p
[03:12] <jimmyw> ggilbert_: what ya mean no birtorrent?
[03:12] <LeeJunFan> starting out is the worst part for newbs, they don't konw where to begin to accomplish X task. But if you have a flowchart type thing that at least tells you what to read....
[03:12] <ggilbert_> jimmyw: Stuck behind a network that disallows bittorrent
[03:12] <jimmyw> eeeeeeeep tahts annoying
[03:12] <dimmak> alright... well i am gonna entertain my niece with "my neighbor totoro".... adios.
[03:13] <regeya_> no bittorrent!
[03:13] <dimmak> i got her hooked on studio ghibli
[03:13] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan: i found as a newb that mandrake was great, it did a lot of stuff itselft but there were still things i had to learn myself ,a good bit, which i can apply to any distro
[03:13] <jimmyw> sheeya dimmak 
[03:14] <jimmyw> im gonna go to bed too, il have another crack at ubuntu tomorrow, night all,  and thanks a million for help
[03:15] <LeeJunFan> ggilbert_: yelp is kind of like a manpage browser, but I mean something that basically is like a knowledge wizard. What distro do you have? ubuntu. What do you want to do 1. Change a setting, 2. install/remove software... and then lead them to documentation for it. kind of like a control panel for docs.
[03:15] <ggilbert_> ah
[03:15] <LeeJunFan> would point them to the files they need to edit, etc...
[03:15] <LeeJunFan> I'm starting to think it's time to python this thing into existence.
[03:16] <LeeJunFan> like the whole - give the person a meal and they feast for a day, give them the knowledge to garden and...
[03:28] <Roey> hi
[03:28] <vishal> 'lo
[03:28] <Roey> is konq-plugins going to be available anytime soon? :)
[03:29] <Roey> (specifically, tools->crashes is what I'm looking to use)
[03:29] <vishal> i dunno
[03:29] <vishal>  <-- n00b 
[03:29] <Roey> =)
[03:31] <vishal> question from a luser: i'm thinkin of moving from mandrake 10.0 to kubuntu when it releases, does it have GUI applets to config the system (like a 'control center')? or do i go to the shell to run scripts?
[03:31] <vishal> the live CD didnt have any, and i read on the web that kubuntu doesnt yet have applets, but will ?
[03:32] <Blissex> vishal: it has several, both the same KDE one everybody hs, and some others.
[03:33] <vishal> ok, so it will/does have applets other than the ones that come with KDE? (custom GUI-based system config tools) so i dont have to ever open a command promtp 8-P ?
[03:33] <Blissex> vishal: dream on :-)
[03:33] <vishal> lol
[03:33] <Blissex> vishal: not even in Mandrake.
[03:33] <Blissex> vishal: but yes, most things have little frontend. Or you could install a global web based frontend like 'webmin'.
[03:34] <vishal> yea, was just dreaming on... 8-P im waiting for a truly luser-friendly release
[03:34] <vishal> ah good idea, will also try webmin sometime
[03:34] <vishal> i cant wait for kubuntu release
[03:34] <Blissex> vishal: _nothing_ is luser-friendly. It just cant be done.
[03:34] <vishal> heh yep
[03:35] <vishal> hey, kubuntu doesnt have a "shipit" link?
[03:35] <Blissex> vishal: BTW, if you cant wait, there are other KDE based Debian deviced things, like Knoppix or Kanotix.
[03:35] <vishal> kde3.4 , 3.5 then 4.x
[03:35] <chavo> vishal, I'm a long time mandrake user and just installed kubuntu.
[03:36] <vishal> chavo: what do you think of it?
[03:36] <Riddell> vishal: we can't offer shipit I'm afraid
[03:36] <chavo> It's great so far.
[03:36] <vishal> Riddell: no problemo, i can download, i was just wondering if i could recommend to others... i can shipit to 'em myself
[03:36] <chavo> I think it's just what I've been looking for. I don't really miss mandrake tools.
[03:36] <LeeJunFan> If linux becomes luser friendly then it will have become useless.
[03:37] <vishal> lol
[03:37] <chavo> Once you set a system up, you don;t really need it anyway.
[03:37] <regeya_> luser-friendly?
[03:37] <regeya_> oh come now
[03:37] <chavo> and I copied a few things from mandrakes /etc dir
[03:37] <vishal> LeeJunFan: just uncheck the 'luser-friendlyness' option during installation heh
[03:37] <regeya_> take a look at the underbelly of os x some time.  linux is much friendlier than that, but os x is luser-friendly
[03:38] <Roey> eh? my sound just stopped for some reason.  I do dmesg but nothing is there.  I strace -p the mpg123 process and see it's timing out on a select() call.  I try xmms and it says: libmikmod.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[03:38] <Roey> Inconsistency detected by ld.so: ../sysdeps/generic/dl-tls.c: 72: _dl_next_tls_modid: Assertion `result <= _rtld_local._dl_tls_max_dtv_idx' failed! 
[03:38] <Roey> wtf???
[03:38] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: yeah, so it's either a pain in the ass for someone who knows what they are doing with it, or it's a pita for someone who doesnt.
[03:39] <vishal> when will kde copy the cool osx 'taskbar' animation (the wave kinda expanding when you hover the mouse over the icons)
[03:40] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: which is why I don't like windows or mandrake, I know what I want the computer to accomplish for me, I don't want the OS telling me what it thinks I want it to do. :)
[03:40] <vishal>  <-- luser/n00b who just likes to look at KDE eye candy thats all
[03:40] <LeeJunFan> The OS should be a servant, not a yes-man or a nag.
[03:41] <regeya_> very good LeeJunFan
[03:41] <zeratha> Hello everyone. I am wits end with an issue I am having. It has to do with installing kubuntu.
[03:41] <zeratha> on hoary, obviously
[03:41] <regeya_> LeeJunFan: similarly, all cars should have manual transmissions, manual steering, unpowered brakes, and a spark advance.
[03:42] <vishal> i agree with just the manual transmission part 8-P
[03:43] <regeya_> vishal: you'll take the spark advance and you'll LIKE IT :-P
[03:43] <regeya_> vishal: Spark advance sets you FREE
[03:43] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: no, there's a point where features turn into annoyances though. I can't turn the lights off on my wifes car when it's running. When adding feature-annoyances that assume what the luser might want - at what point does the user become the tool to the machine?
[03:43] <vishal> 8-)
[03:44] <regeya_> your operating system should be the system that sits in the background and does stuff without user intervention.
[03:44] <LeeJunFan> basically it's telling me what it's going to do.
[03:44] <regeya_> if you have to think about your operating system all the time, throw it out.
[03:44] <vishal> yea i dont like those kinda annoyances either, gimme control, but gimme GUI-based control 8-P
[03:44] <regeya_> if you love your operating system, see a shrink.
[03:45] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: I don't, I just make it do what I want it to do. linux doesn't assume much. Windows on the other hand - well what if I didn't want that drive on D:? but now I have to swap 3 drives to get the drive letter I want. ehehe - things like that.
[03:45] <vishal> when i hear someone say you can modify 'swappiness' by echoing to some proc file, it just makes me want to shoot myself
[03:46] <LeeJunFan> vishal: that I don't mind. GUI is great hell, I'm using KDE, but just don't automate and dumb down for lusers.
[03:46] <regeya_> LeeJunFan:  okay, you're an idiot.  that's all I'll say.  What if I don't want the first drive on the first ide bus to be /dev/hda?
[03:46] <vishal> yea, the automate/dumbing down part sucks
[03:46] <regeya_> cripes, I surrender.
[03:47] <vishal> hehe
[03:47] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: that's different. and likely not going to interfere with installed software on linux. idiot - use ln -s
[03:47] <vishal> hehe
[03:48] <regeya_> oh for the love of pete.
[03:48] <regeya_> so ln -s is going to fix what my drive controller sees as the primary drive on the first bus.  riiiiiiiiiiight.
[03:48] <LeeJunFan> :) I think you know what I mean - don't take it so literally.
[03:49] <regeya_> omg ur s0 l33t d00d
[03:49] <vishal> LeeJunFan: maybe kubuntu is not for you, try slackware or something 8-P
[03:49] <regeya_> :-)
[03:49] <regeya_> I hear slackware is the choice of change-fearing kooks everywhere
[03:50] <LeeJunFan> vishal: I don't feel like compiling my whole os for amd64.
[03:50] <regeya_> compiling your whole os...
[03:50] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: I don't fear change, I fear change in the wrong direction.
[03:50] <vishal> damn, i cant wait for decent amd64 dual-core laptops to come out... woohoo
[03:50] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: slack is only available for i386. I like my amd64.
[03:51] <regeya_> LeeJunFan: in what "wrong directon" do you see "change" and why does that cause you to rant in #kubuntu
[03:51] <regeya_> uhhhh
[03:51] <regeya_> okay, not going to bite, not going to bite...
[03:51] <vishal> LeeJunFan: have you seen any problems/bugs with amd64 os/software etc? is the amd64 'support' stable?
[03:51] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: the "dumbing down" like mdk does.
[03:52] <regeya_> excellent!  now see, I'd love to comment, but I've not used mandrake in a while.
[03:52] <LeeJunFan> vishal: some stuff is fun to compile, for the most part it's not too bad except the binary only things like vmware, my modem driver...
[03:52] <vishal> i see
[03:52] <regeya_> the happy thing is, you don't have to use mandrake. :-)  and now I'm going to exercise my right to do something completely different.
[03:53] <LeeJunFan> as of right now openoffice is broken in ubuntu - worked yesterday :(
[03:53] <LeeJunFan> on amd64 that is.
[03:53] <vishal> "worked yesterday" thats got to be your fault :)
[03:53] <LeeJunFan> vishal: updates today :)
[03:54] <zeratha> Anyone able to give me some Linux help here. My car runs fine......
[03:54] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: I've got a 1970 Chevy :)
[03:54] <chavo> regeya_, just give him some matches so he can fire it up himself
[03:55] <regeya_> bah!  too advanced!  NO dumbed-down cars!
[03:55] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: just my summer vehicle though - not my year rounder - don't get too excited at another chance to slam me :)
[03:55] <chavo> LeeJunFan, you're doing a fine job of slamming yourself.
[03:55] <regeya_> cars past the 30s are for suckers
[03:55] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: dumbed down 450hp, 415 ft lbs torque :)
[03:55] <chavo> cars?
[03:56] <regeya_> I suppose you have WATER ON TAP too!
[03:56] <regeya_> :-D
[03:56] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: yeah, and terlet paper ter wirp my arse with tew.!
[03:56] <regeya_> okay, I'll quit
[03:56] <regeya_> wuss
[03:57] <regeya_> hooray, bluecloth is done installing
[03:58] <regeya_> I was talking to someone a while back (on a totally different subject now) who seemed to think that scripting was a magical modern thing.  Guess he never automated anything on a DOS machine using BASIC or a batch file. ;-)
[03:58] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: I'm probably just ranting because I'm on zero sleep. in about 40 hrs. T1's went down at 1 this morn, and my providers are lusers. :)
[03:58] <regeya_> oooh suckage
[03:59] <regeya_> so, if your providers are at fault, how come you're not passed-out drunk? ;-)
[03:59] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: yeah, I told them what I thought was wrong, 10 hrs later they got it working, called me back and told me I was right. I'd really like to know how setting a route and filter can take 10 hrs when I told them what it was. :)
[04:00] <regeya_> heh
[04:00] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: I've got kids - not a good example :)
[04:00] <regeya_> well, see, you told them, so they had to do everything they could to try to prove you weren't right. ;-) <- TEH VOICE OF EXPERIENCE
[04:00] <LeeJunFan> regeya_: hehe. That's probably it exactly.
[04:01] <zeratha> All KDE based apps I install fail with a rather long, annoying error message. After installing kubuntu and logging into KDE I get this message: "Could not start process. Unable to create io-slave. Klauncher said Unknown protocol 'file'.
[04:01] <regeya_> ooh kids, eh?  will be in the same boat with you soon.  okay, must go, hasta, you fine kubuntu people
[04:01] <LeeJunFan> later.
[04:01] <vishal> hey, whats present in the hoary preview install CD thats not there in the live CD? and is it safe to install over my mandrake dualboot with winxp?
[04:01] <vishal> later reg
[04:02] <chavo> vishal, I'm pretty sure the install has the same setup.
[04:02] <vishal> ok
[04:02] <chavo> And yes it's safe to install over your mandrake.
[04:03] <LeeJunFan> vishal: yep - just have it format your mdk partition. dont' forget to save important stuff.
[04:03] <vishal> yup
[04:03] <LeeJunFan> zeratha: hold - on... I'm looking.
[04:03] <zeratha> LeeJunFan, Thanks!
[04:04] <LeeJunFan> zeratha: did this happen right away or was it working at first?
[04:05] <LeeJunFan> I mean have you logged in and used software successfully at all?
[04:05] <zeratha> Never has worked. Only on this system. It works fine on two others.
[04:05] <smouche> ok, real dumb question probably:  when stable hoary comes out, will simply dist-upgrading my system (hoary kubuntu) bring me up to speed, or will I have to update the kernel, or ...?
[04:06] <LeeJunFan> smouche: dselect upgrade
[04:06] <LeeJunFan> zeratha: hrm. So can you even log in to KDE all the way?
[04:06] <smouche> dselect-- what does that do exactly LeeJunFan?
[04:06] <vishal> hmm 'dist-upgrade' i need to learn debian... need to apt-get a life 8-P (/me ducks)
[04:07] <LeeJunFan> vishal: that'll almost accomplish the same thing.
[04:07] <zeratha> LeeJunFan, I get that message as soon as the splash goes away, lust before the desktop gets drawn.
[04:08] <LeeJunFan> smouche: man apt-get  - dselect-upgrade upgrades your system in short story.
[04:08] <smouche> thank you.
[04:09] <LeeJunFan> zeratha: have you tried logging on as another user? Do you have another user setup on your system?
[04:09] <zeratha> LeeJunFan, I'll try now, BRB
[04:09] <LeeJunFan> zeratha: I'm thinking tmpfile gone bad, if another user can log in that'll pretty much verify it.
[04:09] <vishal> ah man apt-get, i should do that too... high time i got comfortable with debian style
[04:12] <smouche> I'm really happy to see that kde help includes a man reader; I hate looking at that stuff in a terminal...
[04:12] <vishal> lol, and we have another luser/n00b (like me)
[04:13] <LeeJunFan> hehe
[04:13] <ggilbert_> kde has a lot of cool stuff
[04:13] <ggilbert_> it's all buried though
[04:14] <LeeJunFan> Man - 8 years ago I went off on some unix dude and told him that unix came in with bellbottoms and afro's it should have left with them too - now look, both are back in style (well - kind of).
[04:14] <LeeJunFan> Now I love the shell - because with it I can do anything from local or remote! which when you are a network guy - remote rules. :)
[07:24] <Mad_Dude> hi all
[07:25] <Mad_Dude> i'm planning to migrate to Kubuntu and using the Hoary release, any major problems? Or is it advisable to use Ubuntu and then upgrade to Kubuntu?
[07:26] <da_bon_bon> go for kubuntu directly, Mad_Dude 
[07:26] <chavo> Mad_Dude, I'd say just go with kubuntu if you plan on using KDE
[07:27] <chavo> no major problems for me yet.
[07:28] <Mad_Dude> icic..i'm having problems with my USB drive on this computer ( which i'm not migrating ) .. Gentoo here
[07:28] <Mad_Dude> so I guess my family's com should be more friendly, hence I've decided to get Kubuntu
[07:28] <incubii> buh i still get corrupted crud being display on the xserver. modeline still didnt fix my problem :|
[07:29] <chavo> I've got pretty standard/older hardware here, so I haven't had any problems
[07:29] <Mad_Dude> icic...thanks for the advice :) 
[07:30] <chavo> Oh sure, anyways it can't hurt to try it out.
[07:31] <Mad_Dude> yeap, i'll !
[07:37] <incubii> how the hell do i use my ipod 
[07:38] <chakie> incubii: ask apple to release the specs
[07:38] <incubii> lol
[07:39] <chavo> incubii, push the little button in the middle
[07:41] <croplogic> incubii: "crossover office"
[07:42] <croplogic> or maybe pymusiqe
[07:42] <croplogic> but its not for the faint of heart
[07:43] <incubii> hrm its loaded the firewire module but its not showin in /proc/bus
[07:43] <incubii> cd ..
[07:43] <incubii> coops
[07:44] <incubii> oh well there you go
[07:44] <croplogic> are using it through 1394 or usb?
[07:44] <incubii> 1394, seems to of mounted it as a SCSI drive
[07:45] <incubii>  /dev/scsi/host0/bus0/target0/lun0: p1 p2
[07:46] <croplogic> did you try searching www.ipodlounge.com
[07:51] <incubii> booya
[07:51] <incubii> i got it too work
[07:51] <incubii> :D
[07:51] <incubii> not auto mount though
[07:51] <incubii> :|
[07:52] <croplogic> nice
[07:53] <incubii> #!/bin/sh
[07:53] <incubii> modprobe sbp2
[07:53] <incubii> mount /dev/sda2 /media/ipod
[07:53] <incubii> :)
[07:53] <croplogic> you should file a "how to for newbies" on the ubuntu forums
[07:54] <incubii> yeah probably should
[07:54] <incubii> might do that later
[07:55] <incubii> just finished writing today how to automatically install thunderbird 1.0.2 and extensions
[07:56] <incubii> not for ubuntu though
[08:00] <incubii> unfortunatly they dont allow uploads of images to their wiki which is a bitch cause they are so helpful
[08:04] <BROKEN_LADDER> ubuntu is already so ridiculously simple to use.
[08:05] <incubii> yes so simple gnoma cant use my dialup
[08:05] <incubii> i have to use the shell to dial
[08:05] <incubii> :P
[08:05] <incubii> gnome*
[08:36] <Hayden> i've already got ubuntu installed, if i install kubuntu can i delete all the gnome-related files later with ease?
[08:40] <croplogic> apt-get remove gnome----i think
[08:41] <croplogic> try  "man apt-get" it should tell you 
[08:44] <incubii> hmm
[08:44] <incubii> isnt it called ubuntu-desktop ?
[08:47] <incubii> man gtkpod is so much better then itunes
[08:47] <Quinn_Storm> incubii: and amaroK beats both of those
[08:51] <croplogic> Hayden: why would you want to remove them, though?
[08:51] <croplogic> you can still use most of them, if not all under KDE
[08:55] <croplogic> incubii-can you play DRM atomized files in that>"gtkpod"?
[09:05] <incubii> i dont know, i only play mp3s
[09:05] <incubii> i care not for drm
[09:05] <croplogic> only a mac zealot would
[09:06] <incubii> ah well i use macs but i aint no zealot
[09:07] <croplogic> oh dont get me  wrong they kick ass all over the place
[09:07] <croplogic> but
[09:07] <croplogic> its not the only answer
[09:07] <incubii> heh
[09:07] <incubii> Linux anubis 2.6.11-1-powerpc-smp #1 SMP Fri Feb 11 16:46:07 UTC 2005 ppc GNU/Linux
[09:07] <incubii> :P
[09:08] <croplogic> you're running *nix on a mac?
[09:08] <incubii> yes
[09:08] <croplogic> nice, dual boot with osx
[09:08] <croplogic> ?
[09:08] <incubii> yes
[09:09] <incubii> ive yet to boot into the other half though
[09:09] <croplogic> is there hfs+ disk support out there some where?
[09:10] <incubii> i was sure linux could read hfs+ 
[09:10] <incubii> never tried though
[09:10] <croplogic> i've got a firewire drive i use for Protools but i haven't got around to trying it on this yet
[09:13] <incubii> mac-on-linux
[09:13] <incubii> runs great
[09:14] <croplogic> well id think so
[09:15] <croplogic> X was definatly an improvement on OS9 and its less unix than linux
[09:16] <croplogic> i was thinking about putting yellowdog on my moms beige G3 or maybe Hoary once its "stable"
[09:17] <incubii> im on hoary right now
[09:17] <incubii> seems alright to me
[09:17] <croplogic> yeah me too
[09:17] <incubii> YDL was a bit slow
[09:17] <croplogic> i couldnt get hoary to install
[09:18] <croplogic> thats what ive heard
[09:19] <croplogic> "memory hog"
[09:20] <incubii> hmm amarok has no sound engine
[09:21] <croplogic> does it just act as front end for something else?
[09:21] <incubii> possibly
[09:22] <croplogic> i think it's XMMS
[09:22] <incubii> i will soon find out
[09:27] <incubii> man i wish i had broadband
[09:27] <incubii> or even 56kb
[09:27] <incubii> :))
[09:34] <croplogic> dialup, with linux. that sounds ugly
[09:34] <incubii> 28.8kb dialup ;)
[09:35] <croplogic> owch
[09:35] <incubii> its the miracle of pair gain technology my friend!
[09:35] <croplogic> no cable in youre area?
[09:35] <incubii> i for one welcome our pair gain technology overlords
[09:36] <incubii> probably is, cant afford it
[09:36] <incubii> id get adsl but i cant afford adsl and a phone line
[09:36] <croplogic> I would literally get a second job
[09:36] <croplogic> infact i did
[09:36] <incubii> lol
[09:38] <croplogic> dsl is cool, at least you know for sure what your up/down is going to be pretty much no matter what
[09:38] <croplogic> but i found cable to be really steady and more cost effective overall
[09:38] <incubii> at my old place on 56kb dialup i was flatline 5.2kb/sec pretty much 95% of the time
[09:39] <incubii> which was good
[09:39] <croplogic> thats really good dial up
[09:39] <incubii> yeah im still with them, just the pair gain is crap
[09:39] <incubii> gonna swich to their dsl soon maybe
[09:39] <croplogic> when i was dial up id ocassionally get 6 0r 7 kb bursts but sat between 5 and 5.5
[09:40] <croplogic> and that was aohell
[10:10] <gardio1> Anyone know anything about cups?
[10:39] <Tugg> hey hey
[10:39] <kbitty> http://geocities.com/kasper002003/KDE34_kooby2.png
[01:24] <jimmyw> heya all
[01:36] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan,  you here?
[01:39] <LeeJunFan> yeah, but I think I need to reboot.
[01:39] <LeeJunFan> something not listed in top just ate my gig of ram.
[01:45] <ztonzy> anyone ever tried to compile drivers for your webcam and /dev/video0 doesn't show up or work ? ...just wondering :)
[01:46] <jimmyw> wb LeeJunFan 
[01:46] <jimmyw> find out what was eating your ram?
[01:49] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: nope. It was a mistery I didn't care to put the time into solving :)
[01:49] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: unless it happens again anyway.
[01:49] <LeeJunFan> It was probably X.
[01:51] <underlord> i have a cable modem plugged in to my pc's ethernet nic, ubuntu seems to see the nic because theres a eth0 device defined in /dev/, theres a problem, ubuntu doesnt seem to know how to talk to it, i tried modprobing pppeo and pppoatm, didnt help
[01:51] <underlord> any ideas?
[01:51] <LeeJunFan> underloard, if it's plugged in via ethernet it's probably just straight tcpip, try dhclient eth0
[01:52] <LeeJunFan> sudo dhclient eth0
[01:52] <underlord> ok...
[01:53] <underlord> "No DHCPOFFERS recieved."
[01:54] <underlord> the pc im in irc in is also in this modem via its usb connection (i checked, the modem can do both ports symaltaniously), dhclient works fine here, must be something in the computer
[01:55] <LeeJunFan> hrm. Well, your easiest way may be to check your windows settings and see how that's configured with your modem. you'll need such things as your IP address, subnet mask, default gw, and dns servers.
[01:55] <underlord> windows settings?
[01:55] <jimmyw> LeeJunFan, i think i have my system up and running now, it feels good to go look round the net for help and get some results
[01:55] <underlord> my coaster doesnt have settings ;)
[01:56] <underlord> im in ubuntu on the irc pc
[01:56] <underlord> infact - kubuntu :)
[01:56] <LeeJunFan> underlord: :) sorry. that's what I get for assuming. So you are working fine on the USB port with ubuntu but the ethernet side wont work?
[01:56] <underlord> yup
[01:57] <LeeJunFan> now that's totally backwards of what I would have guessed would have happened :)
[01:57] <underlord> ether is on a seperate box incase that isnt clear
[01:57] <LeeJunFan> right.
[01:58] <LeeJunFan> on your ethernet box we can maybe try to edu-guess. Try 'sudo -s' then 'ifconfig eth0 0.0.0.0 up' then 'arping -I eth0 192.168.0.1' and see if you get anything back.
[02:00] <underlord> is that -L in the arping line?
[02:00] <LeeJunFan> I=eye
[02:00] <underlord> eye?
[02:00] <underlord> ooh
[02:00] <underlord> i see
[02:01] <jimmyw> guys is there a graphical mount program for kubuntu?
[02:01] <underlord> arping: no source address in not-DAD mode
[02:01] <underlord> jimmyw: try going to media:/ in konqueror
[02:02] <LeeJunFan> underlord: ok try arping -ID '192.168.0.1'
[02:02] <jimmyw> underlord, its to mount my other harddrives, kubuntu didnt pick them up
[02:02] <LeeJunFan> do you know what the IP of your modem usually is?
[02:02] <Quinn_Storm> why are all the entries in my media:/ named things like "1.0G Media", etc.?
[02:02] <underlord> LeeJunFan: no, but i can find out
[02:02] <LeeJunFan> underlord: ok - well then we don't need to do the arping.
[02:03] <LeeJunFan> underlord: I'm talking about the LAN side mind you - not the WAN port.
[02:03] <underlord> wan port?
[02:04] <underlord> you mean the ip with the http control panel with all the info about how the modem is operating?
[02:05] <LeeJunFan> yeah, it should probably be 192.168. something. Actually can you get into your modem config via your USB machine?
[02:06] <LeeJunFan> or (since I've never use a USB cablemodem) what to you see when you run 'ifconfig
[02:07] <underlord> i could if i had the ip address ;)
[02:07] <LeeJunFan> underlord: don't copy/paste here btw, use chan #flood for that.
[02:07] <Quinn_Storm> hmm...wait one second...are we talking about plugging BOTH a usb cable AND an ethernet cable into a cable modem?
[02:07] <underlord> yes
[02:07] <LeeJunFan> Quinn_Storm: yeah - 2 machines.
[02:07] <Quinn_Storm> that will not work.
[02:07] <underlord> the modem supports it
[02:07] <Quinn_Storm> oh?
[02:07] <Quinn_Storm> I've never seen a modem that does
[02:07] <Quinn_Storm> all the modems I've seen that have an USB and an ethernet port make you pick one or the other not both
[02:08] <underlord> motorola sb4200, their faq on their site says you can use both connections at the same time
[02:08] <Quinn_Storm> ah, well then nevermind
[02:08] <jimmyw> guys does anyone know of a graphical mount tool for kubuntu
[02:08] <underlord> just mount in command line jimmy
[02:09] <jimmyw> underlord, eeeeeesh nothing is easy in kubuntu
[02:09] <LeeJunFan> jimmyw: don't know but 'man mount' and 'man fstab' will have you on your way to creating your own mountpoints and making your own icons on the desktop.
[02:09] <jimmyw> ok thanks lads
[02:09] <underlord> LeeJunFan: can i /msg you the ifconfig results?
[02:10] <LeeJunFan> underlord: sure
[02:11] <underlord> test
[02:11] <underlord> ooh, i though freenode kicked me for a sec
[02:12] <LeeJunFan> so this is the machine with the usb connection?
[02:12] <underlord> yup
[02:13] <LeeJunFan> the ip addy on your eth0 is actually your Internet IP. It must bridge, so I don't see how we can have 2 machines using it at the same time unless your cable co gives you more than one IP#.
[02:13] <underlord> it is a bridge
[02:13] <underlord> owh
[02:14] <underlord> so motorolas site lied
[02:14] <LeeJunFan> underlord: unless it can be put into 'router' mode.
[02:14] <underlord> damnit now i need another ethernet card
[02:14] <underlord> no, its a bridge, thats all it is
[02:15] <underlord> unless i can do something with usb, but i doubt that
[02:16] <LeeJunFan> underlord: you'll either need to get another IP# from your cable co, or maybe get a router to put them behind. You could make one of the linux boxes your router, but it would need 2 NIC's.
[02:16] <underlord> what speeds could i get over a serial cable? lol
[02:16] <LeeJunFan> underlord: no it wouldn't. That's right - you've got usb on one.
[02:17] <LeeJunFan> underlord: |cable|--usb--|linux box1|---eth---|linux box 2|
[02:17] <LeeJunFan> underlord: make linuxbox1 be a router and have it do NAT with iptables.
[02:17] <underlord> linuxbox 1 has a cracked motherboard and likes to crash
[02:18] <underlord> i will get a 2 port router, that dont cost that much
[02:20] <underlord> wait, 3 port lol
[02:21] <underlord> a 2 port router is just a crossover cable, which i have
[02:25] <underlord> hrmmm, maybe motorola wasnt lieing, seems my modem can handle both, but only if my isp gives me more ip's, which they wont
[02:26] <LeeJunFan> right. Or just take someone elses :) you have to steal their MAC addy too though. :)
[02:26] <underlord> modem can have 2 mac's?
[02:26] <underlord> its a dynamic ip system too, which is weird
[02:27] <underlord> considering all the users leave their modems plugged in - occuping an ip address, doesnt make sence to me
[03:01] <underlord> im looking at an nic card online, it states kernel 2.2 and 2.4 compat, do you thin there could be any probs in 2.6?
[03:06] <segfault2k> hi people
[03:06] <segfault2k> is possible to add the universe repository to kubuntu ?
[03:07] <underlord> ofcource
[03:07] <LeeJunFan> segfault2k: man sources.lst
[03:07] <LeeJunFan> err sources.list
[03:07] <segfault2k> i know sources.list :P i've been use debian for emm 5 years
[03:07] <LeeJunFan> :)
[03:07] <underlord> so add the repository
[03:07] <segfault2k> thanks
[03:07] <segfault2k> whats is the repository for kubuntu?
[03:08] <segfault2k> universal
[03:08] <underlord> same as ubuntu
[03:08] <underlord> its all over the wiki
[03:11] <segfault2k> i dont find the universal repo
[03:12] <segfault2k> :S
[03:12] <underlord> are you in warty or hoary?
[03:13] <segfault2k> hoary
[03:13] <segfault2k> i find commented in sources.list
[03:13] <segfault2k> my mistake
[03:14] <segfault2k> deb http://cl.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary universe <- that is?
[03:14] <underlord> ahh ha
[03:14] <underlord> yep
[03:17] <underlord> with my cable modem if i stick an ethernet nic in my usb box and get a 5 port switch i can connect the 2 boxs to the switch and the modem to the switch and it will work?
[03:18] <underlord> or do i need a "nat"?
[03:20] <underlord> LeeJunFan?
[03:25] <LeeJunFan> it'll do NAT
[03:25] <underlord> the switch will?
[03:25] <LeeJunFan> you can DMZ one host to have kind of a direct connection, or you can forward ports individually.
[03:26] <underlord> dmz?
[03:26] <LeeJunFan> doh. Sorry. No you'll do NAT at your linux box.
[03:26] <underlord> no i wont
[03:26] <underlord> i need both computers to be able to go online if the other is offline
[03:27] <LeeJunFan> well, the way you are talking about putting a switch directly to the modem you'll be in the same boat you are now with usb/eth - the ISP will have to give you more IP#'s.
[03:27] <underlord> doh'!
[03:28] <underlord> ell how can i get it to work?
[03:28] <underlord> without requireing one pc to be on for the other to go online
[03:32] <LeeJunFan> underlord: you'll have to get a router - like a linksys.
[03:32] <LeeJunFan> which will have a built in switch anyway.
[03:33] <underlord> so, a router is more powerfull than a switch?
[03:54] <underlord> something along these lines is suitable: http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=34&scid=29&prid=142 ?
[03:55] <blackmoon> hi!
[03:55] <underlord> ey
[03:56] <blackmoon> i've got a problem with kynaptic...
[03:56] <underlord> so use synaptic
[03:56] <blackmoon> the errore is the same...
[03:56] <underlord> whats the error?
[03:57] <blackmoon> it say that is unable to find a servers for updates... but the servers are on...
[03:57] <underlord> your repositories are set up?
[03:58] <blackmoon> yes..
[03:58] <blackmoon> i've made some updates before...
[03:59] <blackmoon> n/binary-amd64/Packages.gz  404 Not Found
[03:59] <blackmoon> sorry...
[04:00] <blackmoon> the error message is: Unable to get http://it.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary-updates/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz  404 Not Found
[04:00] <underlord> ooooh, turn that off
[04:00] <underlord> hoary-updates is screwy
[04:01] <blackmoon> so, what can i do?
[04:01] <underlord> go in to synaptic, then in to the repositories dialog, and untick that repository, then reload
[04:01] <blackmoon> ok, i will try...
[04:03] <srid> excellent work guys!
[04:03] <underlord> srid: eh?
[04:03] <srid> only i miss anti-aliased fonts now ...
[04:03] <srid> i will upgrade underlord 
[04:03] <underlord> you can get antialiasing in kubuntu
[04:03] <segfault2k> in kcontrol
[04:05] <srid> oh, let me try
[04:05] <underlord> in aperence & themes section in the fonts pane, you  enable "Use antialiasing for fonts"
[04:05] <underlord> it will only apply to new apps opened though, so close and reopen something to see it work
[04:05] <srid> let me re-loging
[04:05] <underlord> or that
[04:08] <srid> quality software guys ...
[04:08] <srid> except kde is komplex than gnome
[04:08] <srid> ;)
[04:09] <srid> but why GNU was not happy with kde? 
[04:09] <underlord> qt licencing?
[04:09] <srid> not it's gpl na?
[04:09] <srid> err
[04:10] <srid> it's gpl right? .. so what else is the problem?
[04:10] <underlord> i think gnu just wanted to do their own thing, gnome is designed to be a free gpl desktop, kde is designed to be a powerfull effecient desktop
[04:10] <srid> weird
[04:10] <blackmoon> damn.. i've got others errors...
[04:11] <srid> bad comparison
[04:11] <srid> what's exactly wrong with kde from GNU's point of view?
[04:11] <underlord> its powerfull and not ugly?
[04:11] <blackmoon> Now i've got:   E: postfix:  il sottoprocesso post-installation script ha restituito un codice di errore 1
[04:12] <srid> underlord: ??
[04:13] <srid> underlord: gnome is powerful and beautiful
[04:13] <srid> kde too
[04:13] <srid> now mostly i think I have switched to kde
[04:13] <srid> but I still prefer to program in gnome/gtk
[04:14] <Riddell> srid: prefer to program in gtk?  crazy
[04:15] <Riddell> srid: nothing wrong with KDE from GNU's point of view, it just isn't a GNU project
[04:15] <srid> Riddell: nothing crazy about it ...
[04:16] <Riddell> object orientation in C.  no ma gig
[04:16] <srid> Riddell: i use pygtk
[04:17] <underlord> gtk is ugly, i hate coding in it
[04:17] <srid> i never worry about that
[04:17] <underlord> looks ugler visualy than the code needed to drive it
[04:17] <underlord> if i had my way gtk would exist only as a paperweight
[04:17] <srid> underlord: *coding* is nice
[04:17] <srid> underlord: did you see the default 'Human' gtk2 theme?
[04:18] <underlord> yes, its ugly
[04:18] <underlord> compaired to kde
[04:18] <srid> it's *simple* and beautiful
[04:18] <srid> well, kde is better, i say
[04:18] <srid> but not for *all*
[04:18] <underlord> and those icons, so dark and dirty looking, eew
[04:18] <underlord> give me crystal or give me death
[04:18] <underlord> :P
[04:18] <srid> underlord: you could actually submit feature request to gnome team with neat report
[04:18] <srid> :)
[04:19] <srid> what would a mac user then say? ;)
[04:19] <underlord> what, like "it would be great if you could delete the gnome project and start working on kde"?
[04:19] <underlord> :P
[04:21] <srid> hrm
[04:21] <srid> tell me why kde/qt/blah is much better than gnome/gtk/blah when it comes to *programming*
[04:23] <srid> i have ugly cursors .. how do I switch
[04:23] <srid> it just doesn't match with the rest of the desktop ;)
[04:23] <Riddell> srid: which cursors do you have?
[04:24] <srid> Riddell: i forgot that cursors directory .. ow t ofind out?
[04:24] <Riddell> srid: dunno, I'm still to look into the cursor theme for kubuntu
[04:25] <Riddell> srid: so I'm wondering do you have the human cursor theme and not like it or do you have the plain system cursor theme and not like that
[04:25] <srid> at least i need that industrial cursor back
[04:25] <srid> tell me the default one
[04:26] <srid> kvim sucks (bad rendering)
[04:27] <Riddell> srid: in general (huge generalisation etc) kde has a framework whereas gnome has a bunch of libraries, stuff like kspell, kparts, xml-gui, kioslaves, kcm modules etc don't exist in gnome giving it an inconsistent feel
[04:27] <srid> Riddell: yes this is a problem with gnome and the developers are working toward this problem
[04:28] <srid> has anyone else experiencing this cursor rendering problem in kvim?
[04:29] <underlord> gnomes description should be "usability through consistantly bad design and inconsistant basic interface elements"
[04:31] <srid> 9936 sri       17   0 83356  43m 3760 S  0.0 35.0   0:06.44 kio_help
[04:31] <srid> it's using 43MB!
[04:33] <jiyuu0> any other picture viewer than kuickview? something like acdsee. kuickview doesn't resize big photo nicely
[04:33] <Riddell> jiyuu0: gwenview
[04:33] <underlord> kview
[04:34] <srid> jiyuu0: try gthumb
[04:34] <jiyuu0> i'm kde
[04:34] <srid> just try *all* listed here
[04:34] <srid> jiyuu0: it will run
[04:34] <jiyuu0> ok... i'll try
[04:37] <srid> konqueror has no google search bar!!
[04:39] <srid> is this the latest docs on KDE architecutre? http://docs.kde.org/en/3.3/kdevelop/kdearch/
[04:40] <Riddell> srid: kdeaddons is still to be done
[04:40] <srid> yes, i saw that in wiki
[04:41] <srid> oh, search bar comes with that?
[04:41] <srid> kimp?
[04:42] <Riddell> srid: http://developer.kde.org/documentation/tutorials/index.html
[04:42] <Riddell> srid: what about it?  kimp has never existed, it is a myth
[04:43] <srid> Riddell: i want architecuture-overview rather than those split documents
[04:45] <srid> Riddell: something like http://developer.gnome.org/arch/
[04:49] <Riddell> srid: don't think we have anything so organised but it's all at http://developer.kde.org/documentation/
[04:58] <Roey> Hi
[05:00] <Roey> I have / on software raid1.  When I boot a custom kernel I get:  http://rafb.net/paste/results/o5JsHI75.html
[05:00] <Roey> can anyone help me?
[05:00] <srid> which should I use? karamba or superkaramba?
[05:01] <Riddell> srid: superkaramba
[05:01] <srid> Riddell: so karamba is dead?
[05:02] <srid> i hope it won't eat up too much memory :P
[05:02] <srid> i have only 128 mb
[05:03] <srid> Riddell: any network monitoring applet for kde?
[05:03] <Riddell> srid: as far as I can tell (and I should know, I posted a story on dot news about it this morning) superkaramba replaces karamba
[05:03] <Riddell> srid: knetworkconf, knetload
[05:03] <srid> hmm
[05:03] <srid> Riddell: which should I install
[05:03] <srid> i just need it to be displayed in the panel
[05:03] <Riddell> srid: knetload sounds like the one.  kcpuload is nice too
[05:04] <Riddell> ksysconf can do it too but more complex
[05:04] <srid> Riddell: can't the two be integrated into one project?
[05:05] <Riddell> doubt it, they're quite different
[05:05] <srid> I guess I am adding more bloat to my kde desktop ;)
[05:48] <cartman> amu: Konversation 0.16 pack for Hoary @ http://janeway.no-ip.org/~cartman/kubuntu . Can you sponsor me?
[05:52] <Lynxx> so...whats the diff between Kubuntu and Ubuntu?
[05:53] <Riddell> Lynxx: ubuntu smells, we don't
[05:54] <Lynxx> ...
[05:54] <Riddell> they have naked people, we have dragons
[05:54] <cartman> Riddell: want to sponsor me? :)
[05:55] <Riddell> cartman: I'll take a look at it, that could pass the time while I wait for kdevelop to compile
[05:55] <cartman> Riddell: ok thats fine :)
[05:57] <Lynxx> what version is kynaptic at?
[05:58] <Lynxx> ...
[05:59] <Riddell> CVS from december I think
[06:01] <Lynxx> can i get a link to see some screenshots?
[06:01] <Lynxx> O.o
[06:01] <Lynxx> Kubuntu is hoary?
[06:01] <Lynxx> O.o
[06:01] <Riddell> kubuntu is hoary
[06:02] <Riddell> ggi:kynaptic
[06:02] <Lynxx> >.<
[06:02] <Lynxx> o well
[06:02] <Lynxx> :P
[06:02] <Lynxx> any chance of screenshots?
[06:02] <Riddell> 17:02 < Riddell> ggi:kynaptic
[06:03] <Lynxx> nvm found em
[06:03] <cartman> Lynxx: http://images.google.com/images?q=kynaptic
[06:06] <Lynxx> ...
[06:06] <Lynxx> aight thanks
[06:09] <Riddell> cartman: is this konversation package all your own or based on the debian one?
[06:09] <cartman> Riddell: based on debian one
[06:10] <Riddell> I should sync the changelog from debian then
[06:11] <cartman> err its synced
[06:11] <cartman> http://debian.houseofnate.net/pool/k/konversation/konversation_0.16-1.diff.gz is the debian diff
[06:11] <cartman> ah you mean old releases
[06:11] <cartman> right ok
[06:26] <Riddell> cartman: your version number is set to 0.16-1ubuntu1  it should be 0.16-0ubuntu1 unless there's a 0.16-1 from debian
[06:26] <cartman> Riddell: debian one says 0.16-1 in changelog
[06:27] <Riddell> cartman: where's the debian one?
[06:27] <cartman> http://debian.houseofnate.net/pool/k/konversation/konversation_0.16-1.diff.gz
[06:27] <cartman> check the diff
[06:27] <Riddell> cartman: but where is the origional debian one?
[06:27] <cartman> Riddell: its being uploaded to unstable
[06:28] <_jr> dood
[06:28] <_jr> cartman: new icon?
[06:29] <cartman> _jr: yeah
[06:29] <_jr> cartman: do you have the changelog entry for debian's 0.16-1?
[06:29] <cartman> _jr: yes I can get it. one second
[06:31] <cartman> _jr: dcc?
[06:31] <_jr> cartman: never used it, lets see if konversation makes it easy to use
[06:31] <_jr> or can I use it behind NAT?
[06:31] <cartman> ok
[06:31] <cartman> you will need to set the way your ip is used
[06:31] <cartman> in DCC settings
[06:32] <cartman> so jriddell@kde.org ? :)
[06:32] <_jr> no
[06:32] <_jr> jr@jriddell.org
[06:32] <cartman> ok
[06:33] <cartman> _jr: sent
[06:36] <_jr> cartman: ok, should I upload?
[06:37] <cartman> _jr: yes please :) but fix s/upsteam/upstream
[06:37] <cartman> amu has funny mistakes ;)
[06:38] <_jr> uploaded
[06:39] <cartman> _jr: cheers :)
[06:39] <_jr> back to irssi I go
[06:39] <cartman> lol
[06:53] <cartman> Riddell: any reason to stick to irssi besides the fact that you are used to it?
[06:54] <Riddell> cartman: it can run in a screen session
[06:54] <cartman> ah :/
[06:59] <Riddell> can someone test kdevelop3 at  deb http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/away/kubuntu ./
[07:02] <dannya> Riddell: 
[07:02] <Riddell> 17:59 < Riddell> can someone test kdevelop3 at  deb http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/away/kubuntu ./
[07:02] <dannya> ok
[07:08] <hunger> quiet here...
[07:08] <dannya> Riddell: it seems "different" from another 3.2 I tested earlier...
[07:09] <dannya> there is no "new" menu, no sidebar, etc...
[07:09] <dannya> hunger: you can try kubuntu on the local needy community :D
[07:09] <hunger> dannya: ?
[07:10] <dannya> kubuntu means "to humanity"
[07:10] <Riddell> dannya: thought as much, just checked and it's missing a bunch of files from the .debs so I'll fix that and then we'll take another look
[07:10] <dannya> ok then
[07:10] <hunger> dannya: I thought that is what ubuntu meant?
[07:10] <dannya> hunger: no - there is no "to" in ubuntu
[07:11] <dannya> back later...
[07:11] <hunger> oh... my bemba sucks!
[07:32] <spiral> hi
[07:32] <spiral> hmmm... konversation 0.16 out...
[07:32] <spiral> anyone working on it ?
[07:34] <psn> spiral: yup
[07:39] <Riddell> spiral: you mean you havn't already installed it?  you're so behind the times
[07:39] <Riddell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/k/konversation/0.16-1ubuntu1/
[07:40] <spiral> Riddell: lol... thanks :-)
[07:41] <spiral> Riddell: hmmm... it says amd64...
[07:41] <Riddell> spiral: others havn't compiled yet
[07:41] <spiral> Riddell: ah... damn it...
[07:41] <spiral> so that's why I didn't install it
[07:43] <spiral> Intel Extreme II
[07:43] <spiral> a, c'est une merde, nop ?
[07:44] <spiral> hmmm...
[07:44] <spiral> sorry
[07:44] <spiral> wrong tab
[07:49] <ztonzy> Riddell, hi...do you have webcam on your Kubuntu ?
[07:49] <Riddell> spiral: uh huh? :) qu'est que c'est une merde?
[07:49] <Riddell> ztonzy: nope
[07:49] <ztonzy> I tried to get /dev/video0 working...failed..I need to dig deeper
[07:49] <ztonzy> Riddell, you canadian ?
[07:50] <Riddell> ztonzy: try #ubuntu or ubuntu-users list, it's an issue with ubuntu not kubuntu
[07:50] <Riddell> ztonzy: err no
[07:50] <spiral> Riddell: hmmm... a "shit"
[07:50] <ztonzy> Riddell, sorry
[07:51] <ztonzy> Riddell, I mean you both write english and french ;)
[07:51] <Riddell> spiral: je sais :)
[07:51] <Riddell> ztonzy: je suis Ecossais, vive l'alliance!
[07:51] <ztonzy> :O ?
[07:51] <spiral> Riddell: :-)
[07:56] <spiral> Riddell: do you know when konversation 0.16 should be build for i386 ?
[07:57] <Riddell> spiral: should be done within an hour, just depends how busy the build machines are
[07:59] <spiral> Riddell: all right, really nice :-)
[08:00] <spiral> and now I've got to find a new laptop...
[08:00] <spiral> damned robber
[08:03] <bur[n] er> anyone know what package i need for devices:/ support?
[08:04] <Riddell> bur[n] er: use media:/
[08:05] <bur[n] er> Riddell: media:/ is blank :\
[08:06] <bur[n] er> and the konq sidebar still uses 'devices' 
[08:07] <Riddell> konq sidebar doesn't ungrade well, reset it to defaults
[08:07] <Riddell> upgrade
[08:07] <bur[n] er> there an easy way to reset defaults?  
[08:07] <bur[n] er> rm -rf .konqueror ? ;)
[08:07] <Riddell> ~/.kde/share/config/konqsidebartng.rc ~/.kde/share/apps/konqsidebartng/
[08:08] <Riddell> but it's got an option to reset it somewhere
[08:09] <bur[n] er> any idea why media:/ shows nothing?
[08:10] <Riddell> you have no media in?
[08:14] <bur[n] er> i have hard drives
[08:14] <bur[n] er> they should show up... no?
[08:14] <Riddell> seems to depend on its mood, try putting in a CD
[08:14] <bur[n] er> hrm... how bout usb?
[08:15] <bur[n] er> it goes to the desktop
[08:15] <bur[n] er> but not to media;/
[08:21] <amu> someone want test new kaffeine 0.6 ? 
[08:23] <Riddell> amu: yes please
[08:48] <bur[n] er> anyone know on the off hand how to set a hotkey to raise volume?  dcop call??? or just a kmix --option
[08:51] <bur[n] er> i found how to set it to a percent, but not how to bump it up or down a lil
[09:09] <epod> Hey, can anyone tell me how I correct the lack of cdrdao when I start k3b? I just installed...
[09:10] <Riddell> apt-get install cdrdao ?
[09:11] <epod> hurm I looked in kynaptic and didnt see it.  Ill check again
[09:11] <Riddell> probably in universe then
[09:12] <epod> ahh ok
[09:12] <Riddell> yes it is
[09:12] <epod> is there a way add repositories to kynaptic like I could with the gnome ubuntu?
[09:12] <Riddell> epod: nope, one of many features that kynaptic lacks
[09:13] <epod> okay, hurm.  Could you tell me which file I edit to add repositiories?
[09:14] <epod> Im afraid Im not overly familiar with the command line stuff :)
[09:15] <chavo> epod, you can apt-get install synaptic
[09:15] <epod> ok
[09:15] <chavo> it looks nice with the gtk-qt engine installed
[09:16] <chavo> or the file to edit is /etc/apt/sources.list
[09:16] <epod> okay cool, thank you
[09:16] <epod> this is odd, the apostrophe only registers every other time I press it  the first time, nothing, the second time, it makes a 
[09:16] <epod> :/
[09:19] <spiral> hmmmm... still no konversation, isn't it ?
[09:19] <epod> its konversation, yes
[09:19] <epod> Same thing occurs in firefox though
[09:20] <epod> which leads me to think its a KDE issue?
[09:20] <spiral> epod: dunno... I talked about konversation because I was asking for news of the updated version
[09:20] <epod> oh lol sorry
[09:20] <epod> :)
[09:21] <spiral> epod: no matter
[09:21] <chavo> spiral, I'm using a recent version of konversation.
[09:21] <spiral> chavo: 0
[09:21] <spiral> .16 ?
[09:21] <chavo> I updated it from cvs last night.
[09:21] <chavo> there are a lot of improvements over .15
[09:22] <spiral> chavo: yes... all right... but Riddell told me that it should be .debised for ubuntu
[09:22] <chavo> yeah, I'm not sure when. I've been building KDE on my own.
[09:23] <spiral> chavo: :-)
[09:24] <epod> Can anyone recommend a nice DVD playing program for KDE?
[09:24] <Riddell> epod: kaffeine
[09:25] <epod> hm Ihave that already, I guess I just need to install libdvdcss2?
[09:25] <spiral> Riddell: any news for Konv. ?
[09:25] <spiral> epod: yes
[09:25] <epod> k, thanks
[09:29] <Riddell> spiral: x86 seems happy http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/k/konversation/0.16-1ubuntu1/
[09:31] <spiral> Riddell: so dist-upgrade should do the trick ?
[09:32] <spiral> Riddell: still not updated
[09:32] <Riddell> spiral: it's not in the archives yet then
[09:32] <spiral> Riddell: all right, then I have to wait
[09:35] <epod> Do I need to enable DMA for my hard disk?
[10:34] <randy> kubuntu is great!
[10:34] <randy> i may have to give up on gnome
[10:35] <taki> kubuntu is fast as hell. I actually like the gnome interface a bit better, but definitely slower.
[10:36] <randy> compared to gnome, kubuntu has better desktop config options
[10:37] <randy> especially for the menus
[10:37] <taki> it does. gnome's is almost nonexistant right now. But i just mean the interface. I find it easier on my eyes and to use
[10:38] <taki> but kde is slick, and the customization is very nice. plus, kb3 is the only burner that's worked for me so far
[10:38] <randy> it... works!!??
[10:39] <randy> i'll have to try that...
[10:40] <randy> using hoary?
[10:40] <taki> yeah. I tried three burners before someone told me to give it a shot. none of that 'need scsi emulation' crap. yeah, hoary
[10:41] <randy> amd64?
[10:42] <taki> nope. k7
[10:42] <randy> what's k7?
[10:42] <taki> non64 bit amd chips. Athlons, durons and the like
[10:43] <randy> y'know, i gotta give the ubuntu team credit
[10:43] <randy> i have a full 64bit sys w/ 3d accelerated graphics & Wireless internet
[10:44] <randy> w/out too much trouble
[10:44] <randy> and i can still run 32 bit apps
[10:44] <randy> i think, as a distro, ubuntu might just take over
[10:45] <taki> I finally built a small *86 machine after two years away. Decided to give Ubuntu a shot. So far, I'm pleased. Still too much of a pain for an average user in regards to configuring things like video drivers and wifi, but otherwise pretty easy to use.
[10:46] <randy> eyah, it's a pain if you don't have standard mobo components
[10:46] <randy> i seem to have more driver problems than anything
[10:46] <randy> and ubuntu developers (usually) can't do anything about that
[10:47] <randy> as long as they keep updated drivers in the repositories i'm happy
[10:50] <randy> i think, for a new user, nvidia cards are the way to go
[10:50] <randy> EASY, EASY, EASY
[10:50] <randy> i went through hell getting ati cards working on laptops and desktops
[10:50] <randy> and even then, they were buggy
[10:50] <randy> recently i got a A8N-SLI (Asus) w/ MSI Geforce 6600 GTOC
[10:50] <randy> and (surprisingly) drivers were a breeze
[10:51] <taki> really, the problem for me is the god damned companies not releasing drivers for linux. then it would be easy. but setting up my wifi with ndiswrapper was a pain, as was the ATI
[10:54] <randy> the driver wasn't supported well in ndiswrapper
[10:54] <randy> but then i found a project for just my driver (rt2500.inf)
[10:54] <randy> and it works flawlessly
[10:57] <randy> do you use cedega?
[10:57] <taki> nope. have a dual boot
[10:58] <randy> you still use windows?
[10:58] <taki> I haven't for two years, but as of a few weeks ago, yeah. For games.
[10:59] <taki> I generally use os x for just about everything. But I wanted to check out Ubuntu after what I'd read
[11:01] <randy> cedega is pretty freakin' awesome for games
[11:01] <randy> runs almost all the new stuff that comes out
[11:02] <taki> yeah, but I have optimized drivers for windows. and all the games definitely work. I may try cedega soon, though.
[11:03] <randy> there's only one software that i need windows for
[11:03] <randy> and that's macromedia flash
[11:03] <randy> and they are supposed to be coming out with a linux version of that due to massive requests by users
[11:04] <taki> I don't mind booting it up for games.
[11:53] <Rebroad> oooh. quiet on here