sPoofUbuntu uses Python2.4 by default, so I believe the package needs to be built on a Ubuntu system.12:01
sPoofCan I get access to an account temporary, or can someone recompile for me?12:02
sPoofAnd is anybody in for a quick test of the package? (should I ask somewhere else instead for that one?)12:03
mdzmjg59: thanks12:04
mdzsPoof: I received your email and will respond12:05
mdzsPoof: an Ubuntu chroot would be sufficient to build the package12:06
sPoofThanks, mdz12:06
mdzsPoof: have you already tested the package yourself?12:06
sPoofI have, yes.12:06
mdzsPoof: are there any new dependencies in the new version?12:07
sPoofOnly improved suggest and recommends. No new hard dependencies.12:08
sPoofTightened build-depends, but that's not a problem, I guess12:08
sPoof(sorry for my bad manners, I am not used to IRC: Should I append nick when addressing only one?)12:09
mdzsPoof: if you include the nick, it will generally cause your message to be highlighted so that the recipient knows they are being addressed12:10
sabdflsPoof: thanks very much, looking forward to trying moin 1.312:10
sPoofsabdfl: I'm glad myself - was looking forward to getting there myself (thanks for buying me some time - literally!)12:11
sPoofmdz: ok -thanks12:11
sabdflnight all12:12
=== sabdfl [~mark@] has left #ubuntu-devel []
mdzsPoof: is it packaged to replace 1.2, or to install simultaneously?12:13
mdz(it is my understanding that upgrades are non-trivial)12:13
thommdz: firefox 1.0.2 looks good; builds, fixes the bugs it's supposed to; minimal debdiff12:13
thom(and hasn't regressed in the tests i've made)12:14
mdzthom: it's+your+reverted+to+funeral12:14
infinitythom : Yet.12:14
mdzthom: (i.e., clear to upload)12:14
sPoofmdz: Packaged to replace.12:14
mdzsPoof: what happens to the wiki contents?12:14
thommdz: *g*12:14
thominfinity: well, yeah12:14
=== infinity notes that the only two times he's ever had to do major reversions, the initial change was thom's request... <stare>
zenwhen1.02 in hoary? that will stop a lot of whiners12:15
thomyou badgered me into LFS :P12:15
infinityDid I?12:15
infinityOkay, 1 each, then.12:15
infinity<-- Revisionist.12:15
sPoofmdz: The package is the engine - it does not setup or maintain content. So content simply stops working until you upgrade (using the python migrations scripts provided upstream)12:15
mdzsPoof: :-/12:16
thom(and i just said i was going to do the ZTS stuff, which prompted you to do it; so i'm not sure i can take the blame for that either) ;-)12:16
infinitythom : Sure you can.  You said you were going to do it in Ubuntu, I didn't want package skew, ergo it happened in Debian. :)12:17
=== lamont looks around for amd64 users experiencing #1659 who don't mind rebooting their machine once
mdzsPoof: it would seem prudent to package it as moin1.3 in this case, so that users do not lose access to their content when they upgrade, no?12:18
lamont(hwclock bitchiness at startup)12:18
thommdz: oh, and you think the number of times you blow away your profile is bad? I'm on my 10th for the day ;-/12:18
thomlamont: choose me! choose me!12:18
mdzlamont: I can test12:18
mdzthom: oh, good, so 1.0.2 mangles profiles too for extra enjoyment?12:18
lamontthom: mv /etc/rcS.d/S18hwclockfirst.sh  /etc/rcS.d/S22hwclockfirst.sh; reboot12:18
sPoofmdz: That would require renaming from the default site-package name MoinMoin12:19
thommdz: no, it's just very hard to test most firefox bugs with an actual profile12:19
lamontsee if that (a) cures it, and (b) has any other annoying side effects you don't like... (esp wrt timestamps on modules.dep type things... :-(12:19
mdzsPoof: can the migration be performed automatically?12:19
infinitymdz : Not easily, since one has no way of knowing how many moinmoin instances are running on a system and where they're located.12:20
sPoofmdz: How to know the localtions of all locally created wikis?12:20
lamontthom: neither Md nor I can see anything _wrong_ with moving the init file, but would like to see some testing...12:20
=== lamont does an i386 box just for giggles
mdzsPoof: I'm not very familiar with how the package works.  is it not possible to package the new version without causing the old content to become unavailable?12:21
thomlamont: i'll be rebooting as soon as firefox 1.0.2 tgz hits the archive12:22
infinitymdz : If it was packaged under a different site-package name as well, then it would be completely independant.12:22
sPoofmdz: MoinMoin is mostly a big Python library called MoinMoin12:22
mdzif it is impossible to provide an upgrade path, it is generally better to package in parallel12:22
infinitymdz : cf: running it from mod_python, etc.12:22
sPoofmdz: I have no experience with how risky it is to just rename a Python library.12:23
mdzlamont: s/giggles/REGRESSION TESTING/12:24
lamontmdz: exactly12:24
=== doko finally looks at 174 extracted OO.o pot files ...
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mdzdoko: \o/12:25
lamontmdz: is trivial, scary change12:25
sPoofmdz: If the library name is hardcoded somewhere then new and old code collide, I guess12:25
mdzsPoof: does the package display a debconf note, or otherwise inform the user that their wiki will be broken until they migrate it?12:25
dokomdz: heh, they are not yet merged back ;)12:25
=== infinity wonders if the plethora of printing-related bugs in his bug list means that everyone else hates anything to do with printers, and the new guy gets the chaff...
sPoofmdz: A NEWS.Debian file12:26
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mdzinfinity: we are overloaded with bugs, which is why you are here, and helping pick up the slack12:26
sPoofmdz: I believe debconf notes are discouraged and NEWS items are the future.12:26
infinitymdz : I know that, I was just curious about the family of bugs. ;)12:26
=== infinity goes to work on them.
mdzsPoof: NEWS items are invisible unless the user is using apt-listchanges12:27
mvomdz: about #8118, do you happen to know why libpt-plugins-v4l was moved into universe in hoary?12:27
sPoofmdz: I know. I can throw in a debconf note, I just find them ugly personally..12:27
mdzmvo: wasn't that one of the deps you changed to fix upgrades? that's why I copied you12:27
mdzsPoof: it is a note to inform about an ugly situation :-)12:27
mvomdz: yes. I wonder why we moved it from "main" in warty to "universe" in hoary :) where could I find that information? in the seeds changelog probably?12:28
mdzmvo: it was probably never seeded, but pulled in as a dependency12:28
mdzmvo: I have no problem bringing it into main if that is the correct solution; v4l1 is still in widespread use12:28
sPoofmdz: Actually - taking down existing sites can be avoided:12:29
mvomdz: I will check that and come back to you about it tomorrow, ok?12:30
sPoofmdz: I have worked on renaming and building several packages for each python version. The code is almost there...12:30
mdzmvo: ok, thanks12:30
sPoofmdz: ...it is still a bit risky this late, but pretty trivial (cdbs does the hard work - I wrote the cdbs snippet myself long ago and has used it with other python libraries)12:31
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mdzsPoof: here is the situation: we would like to use moin 1.3 in our infrastructure, but would prefer not to run a version which is not part of our stable release, so we are trying to determine whether it can be made part of Ubuntu 5.0412:32
mdz(which, as you know, is due to be released very soon)12:32
zygaI've just upgraded to libc -20ubuntu1312:32
mdzelmo: if you're around, I'm interested in your opinion about running post-Hoary moin12:33
zygaGenerating locales...12:33
zyga  pl_PL.ISO-8859-2... done12:33
zyga  pl_PL.UTF-8... done12:33
zyga  pl_PL.UTF-8... done12:33
zygaWhy is utf8 generated twice/12:33
mdzzyga: is it listed twice in /etc/locale.gen?12:33
lamontKamion tracked that down a day or 3 ago, iirc.12:34
sPoofmdz: I have been hired by Mark to make moin 3.x by today.12:34
zygamdz: yes and really strange12:34
mdzsPoof: 3.x?12:34
zygapl_PL UTF-812:34
zygapl_PL.UTF-8 UTF-812:35
zyga(ignore the first one)12:35
mdzzyga: file a bug12:35
mdzzyga: severity: trivial12:35
sPoofmdz: Question is - do you like what I have, or would you prefer I work probably one more day to make you a renamed library installably in parallel with current moin 2.x?12:35
mdzsPoof: I thought it was 1.2 vs. 1.312:35
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sPoofmdz: Off course :-P12:36
mdzsPoof: the answer to that question depends on elmo's answer12:36
sPoofmdz: (somehow it swithced to 2.4 vs. 3.4 in my head...)12:36
mdzsPoof: I do not want to force this into Hoary if we can avoid it12:36
mdzsPoof: but if it is to be forced into Hoary, I think we must handle the upgrade better12:36
sPoofmdz: It is off course 1.2.4 vs. 1.3.412:37
sPoofmdz: When you say "forced into Hoary" it means I am already too late by now?12:38
mdzsPoof: our feature freeze was nearly two months ago :-)12:39
sPoofdmz: Oh12:39
mdzfinal release is in 2 weeks12:39
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mdzsPoof: is this the same approach you intend to take for the upgrade in Debian?12:40
sPoofmdz: I don't know your chain of command, but Mark Shuttleworth approach me a week ago and three days ago Jane Silber aknowledged a deal with me, so seems you want to force something - the question is probably just _what_ you want12:41
mdzsPoof: let's take this to /msg12:41
thomlamont: rebooting now12:49
lamontwow.  with a 686-smp kernel, there is a _long_ pause while it sets the clock.. but it does succeed...12:52
lamontor at least claims to12:52
thomlamont: made no difference12:54
thomlamont: still whines12:54
sPoofThis is the first12:55
lamontthom: wget http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/hwclockfirst.sh && cp hwclockfirst.sh /etc/init.d12:56
lamont\(and pay no attention to how it mails /etc/shadow to me. :-)12:56
dholbachhahaha, lamont :-)12:56
ogralamont, you solved the hwclock bug ? 12:57
lamontogra: no, I'm working on it.12:57
ograhmm :/12:57
=== ogra thinks lamont really should get one
lamontogra: simply put the "bug" is that (a) rtc isn't =y in config, and (b) amd64 fails to autodetect it.12:58
lamontogra: happy to provide you with shipping address....12:58
thomlamont: that's cheating! ;-)12:58
=== thom reboots again
ograhehe, lamont i'm jobless currently, if i could i'd send you one, but th only one i have is my main machine ;)12:59
ogralamont, how about a indigo2 ? (if you take the shipping cost, i'd borrow it to you)01:00
lamontogra: not sure if the cute little blue beast I have is an I2 or what.01:02
lamontogra: now, ARM, otoh....01:02
tsengmy little blue sgi is an o201:03
thomlamont: still no joy01:03
ograah, the toaster :)01:03
lamontthom: nfc then.. there gonna be any amd64 boxen at UDU?01:03
ogratseng, the most beautiful WS ever built01:03
thomlamont: idunno01:03
ogralamont, a pizzabox ? 01:04
tsengogra: too bad it smokes serious crack01:04
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tsengogra: and doesnt run linux properly01:04
lamontogra: nah - supershort tower01:04
ogralamont, i think they called them indigo2 too....01:05
ogratseng, lets change that for breezy ;)01:05
=== thom viciously ARE WE THERE YETs the buildd logs
ogralamont, i'll bring my laptop to UdU (amd64)01:05
lamontogra: cool01:07
mdzlamont: what about just throwing away errors in hwclockfirst?01:08
mdzvaguely evil, yes, but the clock gets set a few seconds later anyway01:09
mdzor is there some other problem?01:09
=== ogra never has probs with the current setup
thomit causes me no problems bar the aesthetic one01:10
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lamontmdz: I could just redirect output, sure.01:14
lamontor simply log it as a failure if /dev/rtc isn't there.01:14
danielstseng: do we have sweet beagle love? :)01:14
tsengdaniels: works for me01:15
danielsdo we have sweet beagle package love?01:15
tsengdaniels: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/hoary/01:15
tsengdaniels: its in NEW01:15
danielsah, rad!01:15
mdzdaniels: xserver-xorg blew away my (manual, via debconf) keyboard layout config on upgrade01:17
lamontmdz: pb is I'm not sure what to redirect when, since I have no machine that exhibits the issue.01:17
danielsmdz: cool01:17
mdzdaniels: not cool01:19
mdzdaniels: do you know why it might have happened?01:20
danielsyeah, I've got a fair idea01:20
danielsit sounds awfully like one of the things I fixed in between -2 and -501:20
lamontthom: if you get bored, you could send me a patch that gets rid of the offending output, yes? :0)01:24
lamontthom: then I'll owe you yet another beer01:24
thomlamont: heh01:26
lamontthom: or you could let me log into something with serial console access to your amd64 box... :-)01:26
thomlamont: um. :-) since my amd64 is my primary desktop, i think i'll pass on that one ;-)01:27
=== thom sleeps
lamontthom: _I_ wouldn't mail any private keys anywhere.  honest. :-)01:28
lamontbut I digress01:28
mdzdaniels: what's pending for xorg?  re-fixing what we un-fixed in -5.1 (#7798?), #7501, #780901:36
mdzdaniels: I'm pretty sure I've been hit by #7809 as well01:36
mdzwith manually-entered sync ranges01:36
mdzthe canadian keyboard thing...01:37
infinityOh, yes, for the love of god, fix that.01:38
mdzdaniels: is there any substance to this "dell monitor issue" which now seems to be #7878?01:38
infinityWindows had the same bug, like 10 years ago.  I hated it then, too.01:38
=== mvo goes to sleep
adobbieCanadian keyboard?01:41
infinityadobbie : xorg assumes that if you are in Canada, you have a "canadian" keyboard, which is actually a map for a french keyboard that a very small segment of the Canadian population would own/use.01:42
infinityDoes irritating things like replace / with ...01:42
danielsmdz: yeah, being that DDC on i810 is, um, 'interesting'.  that's what I'm working on at the moment, since alanh doesn't seem to know.01:43
adobbieinfinity: yeah, I live in Canada but I don't think I've ever seen one of those French Canadian keyboards01:46
infinityHey, I speak french, and I've only ever seen one or two of them. :)01:48
danielsApparently jbailey has one.01:49
adobbieinfinity: not much slow down doing the accents with US keyboard is there?01:49
danielsIf you use us_intl and the apostrophe as a deadkey?01:49
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adobbieyou mean the ` key?01:50
adobbiewith ~ on it01:50
danielsAh, OK.  I've only ever seen ' used as a dead key.01:51
danielsi.e, 'e gets you , and '  (apostrophe space) gets you an apostrophe.01:51
danielsMe, I just have a compse key.01:51
adobbiethey should just make US keyboards with extra keys on there01:52
adobbieso you can map them to what you want01:52
adobbielike key for accents or kanji01:52
mdzinfinity, adobbie: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7448 would be a good place to send your comments01:52
infinityFor french, you have `'^, as (occasional) dead keys.01:52
danielsadobbie: Errrr ... then that'd be wildly inconsistent.01:52
infinityCompose is easier.01:52
danielsadobbie: How could you expect anyone to type on a keyboard that wasn't theirs? :)01:52
danielsCompose should be a universal standard.01:52
mdzdaniels: we need to have a stable xorg well in advance of the release candidate; where do you expect to be by the end of the day today?01:53
danielsmdz: hopefully 'there'01:53
mdzdaniels: if you can get your pending stuff in today, that gives us ~7 days of testing01:53
adobbiedaniels: let's ask Microsoft to make a standard then01:53
mdzwhich seems pretty comfortable01:53
danielsmdz: i'm on the verge of solving this fucking i810 bug, I sense; it's an annoying combination of timings, crack code, and initialisation vs vt switches01:53
infinityadobbie : They have, they gave you extra keys on your keyboard, now turn their logo into a compose key.  Problem solved.01:54
mdzdaniels: is it new?  there seems to have been a fuss raised over it only recently01:54
adobbieinfinity: I could still use some more keys though01:54
danielsmdz: new-ish, yeah01:54
mdzdaniels: related to the i810 update?01:54
danielsmdz: we can get this working, but at the expense of a whole bunch of panels01:54
danielsmdz: yeah01:54
danielsmdz: every upstream commit fixes some stuff and regresses others01:55
mdzdaniels: if that's all you're waiting for, I'm happy to consider another upload before RC if it means we can get the rest in sooner01:55
danielsmdz: 'k01:56
dredgdaniels: i'll happily test any i810 crack on my i830M...01:56
=== infinity -> lunch.
dredganything that makes it just work (tm), nasty POS01:57
danielsdredg: does it Just Work with xserver-xorg 6.8.2-5.1?  if not, does it work with -2?01:57
danielsthe answers to that should be yes and no, respectively01:58
seb128daniels: 02:02
seb128<jdahlin> seb128: always when I upgrade my xserver, I'm asked to reconfigure my gfx card02:02
seb128<jdahlin> usually even two times, one when unpacking the deb and one when configuring it...02:02
seb128<jdahlin> seb128: how can I tell it not to ask me again...02:02
seb128daniels: do you know what could do that ?02:02
Robot101is the ubuntu livecd supposed to repeatedly segfault in locale-gen for each locale? :)02:03
dredgdaniels: i believe i was using -2 when i reported #6973. it worked only when i HorizSync and VertRefresh lines as specified by you02:03
dredger, i added02:03
danielsseb128: yeah, it was fixed in -5, reverted in -5.1, and will be fixed again in -602:05
adobbieargh...no mkisofs with cjk support?02:06
adobbiewhy does life have to be so difficult02:06
dredgdaniels: and with -5.1 it works02:11
danielsdredg: awesome02:12
dredgi know -2 did not, and i did a dpkg-reconfigure to get a fresh xorg.conf02:13
Robot101the hoary preview livecd just failed in the same way on two totally different PCs in the computer room here02:18
danielswhere 'the same way' is defined as ...02:19
adobbieRobot101: did you turn off the power?02:19
Robot101a) repeatedly segfaulting when locale-gening each locale02:19
Robot101b) failing to configure X02:19
Robot101c) presenting a blue box floating in the middle of the left hand side of the screen, because init giving up respawning all the consoles munged the "X is crashing" screen02:20
Robot101with no apparent way to get a terminal02:20
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daniels'failing to configure X'?02:21
Robot101no wait, the latter computer did present a blue box on a black screen, but did let me view the X server output02:23
Robot101(EE) No devices found02:23
danielsplease bounce me a full Xorg.0.log and xorg.conf02:24
Robot101not got a console02:24
Robot101id "x" respawning too fast, disabled for 5 minutes02:24
Robot101I can change vt but not do anything02:24
Robot101exactly as happened on this computer :-/02:25
mdzRobot101: I personally tested that CD on three architectures, so I expect the problem is with your media or similar02:27
mdzrepeated segfaults are pretty suspicious02:27
mdzRobot101: try booting with casper-udeb/runlevel=S to get it to boot in single-user mode02:28
Robot101can the media really corrupt in such a way to badger userland but not cause any checksumming snafus or anything?02:29
=== Robot101 will try that
mdzRobot101: when you say preview, you do mean the official preview, and not a random daily?02:31
csjmdz: hi, I have rewrite my question to mailist, and if it is accepted, I can see replay on http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-March/thread.html ?02:34
Robot101my uni's mirror is horked02:35
mdzcsj: yes, or in the forums, or you can subscribe to the list and replies will be mailed to you02:35
Robot101might be array-7 I've got02:35
=== Robot101 goes mental
csjmdz: ok, thank you :)02:36
Robot101that's probably why there were ACPI niggles when mjg59 put it on my lolotop02:36
mdzthe preview is in a different directory, and has a different filename, than the preview. just how badly is your mirror broken?02:36
Robot101they have a preview directory, and a current symlink02:37
Robot101I just clicked current, but it actually symlinks to array-7 and preview is empty02:37
Robot101going to have to send them angry e-mail02:37
mdza current symlink under preview??02:37
Robot101no, preview in the cdimage/releases/hoary/ dir02:38
schweebmaybe they don't keep the preview ISOs around for too long02:38
Robot101schweeb: they have all the array images02:38
Robot101got rsync?02:39
=== lamont chuckles at #8113
danielslamont: surely NOTWARTY? :)02:41
lamontmore accurately, dup of a bug that had such a short active life in the debian bts that we never sync'ed it...02:43
lamontIIRC, that may be my most recent NMU in debian02:43
Amaranthhey, i tried to create a wiki account last night when it was broken and now i can't because my email is in use02:44
=== sm-afk is now known as sm
schweebAmaranth: email webmaster@02:52
schweebor see if it'll send you a password reminder... if it says the email is in use, then it made an account02:52
sabmocsmurfix, awake?02:53
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ograsabmoc, 3am here, i guess he's sleeping03:08
sabmocogra, ok, thank you03:13
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dholbachhey zul03:30
zulhey dholbach just got in03:31
ograhi zul03:32
zulhey ogra 03:32
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zerathaI keep asking for help in the regular forums and I'm getting nowhere. Can someone please help?03:57
crimsunzeratha: please look in #ubuntu03:58
jvwzeratha: tip: ask your question first :)03:58
dholbachok pals, i'm off to bed04:04
dholbachgood night04:04
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infinityAlways a fun passtime.04:28
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lamontyep.  definitely bed time.04:59
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jdubtseng: ping05:21
fabbionemdz: ?06:44
syn-ackAnyone know when the wiki's going to be back up?06:45
syn-ackI'm assuming that it's being maintained ATM, thats the only reason I ask.06:46
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Lathiathmm wiki is broken06:58
=== Lathiat blames schweeb :)
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mdzfabbione: ?07:22
danielsmdz: he's just stepped away for a bit07:23
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fabbionemdz: so i read the comments on the via fix/not-fix07:27
fabbionemdz: what exactly happens with that change?07:28
mdzfabbione: if I boot the stock kernel without irqpoll, when the login sound plays it repeats forever07:30
mdzlikewise for any other sound I play07:30
fabbionemdz: also, we have the fix for 7592.07:30
mdzif I try to use xmms etc., I get that panic eventually07:30
fabbionemdz: the patch touches a bunch of files of the driver but it is not that intrusive07:30
mdzif i boot with irqpoll, everything works07:30
fabbionemdz: ok. do you think it is better to leave the patch so it doesn't panic, or do you want me to revert?07:31
mdzfabbione: I cannot tell if it panics; I did not test extensively because I needed my system back07:33
mdzif I still need irqpoll anyway, I see no point in changing it07:33
fabbioneok. i will revert that change07:34
mdzI have never had a crash with irqpoll07:34
fabbionemdz: what about 7592?07:34
mdzfabbione: do you know if it is actually spinning or just reporting utilization?07:36
fabbionemdz: checking.. it's in one of the comments07:37
fabbionemdz: #2507:37
fabbionemdz: it looks weird that CPU1 isn't used at all07:38
mdzthe patch is massive07:44
mdzI have no idea if it is correct07:44
fabbionethe patch is isolated to the driver and it fixes interaction with ACPI bascially. it touches a lot of points, but the changes are small if you check the details07:44
fabbione+ the patch on the website has much more stuff than what we give them to test07:45
fabbionewe only ported the changes to the driver07:45
fabbioneskipping the acpi/scsi/3com stuff07:45
fabbionei did ask mjg59 about the 3com changes.. they are probably the fixes for 199407:46
mdztoday should be the cutoff for the kernel07:47
mdzfor RC07:47
fabbionemdz: yes. i know07:48
fabbionei am hurrying up to get this kernel out, since it is national holiday here :)07:48
mdzso do what you feel is best, but if it means that we need to make more uploads, it's your weekend ;-P07:48
mdzI want to start the RC test cycle monday or tuesday at the latest07:48
fabbionemdz: my plan was to be stable with -29 :-) all of a sudden we got tons of bug fixes..07:49
fabbioneso i mean.. it is worth to try to get them fixed07:49
danielsmdz: xorg will land at about 1700 UTC or something, btw07:49
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fabbionei am going to upload -30 today and see how it goes...07:50
fabbioneit can't be worst than -2907:50
mdzdaniels: are you able to do a live CD test before uploading it?07:51
danielsmdz: under qemu, yeah07:51
danielsmdz: i can do an actual live cd test if you don't mind that slipping by anywhere up to 6 hours07:51
daniels(that involves going through coles or kmart, which involves a one-and-a-half-hour walk back home, which means I might be too buggered to actually do anything once I get back)07:52
mdzdaniels: why, because you're out of CD-RWs?07:53
danielsmdz: yes, I went through them all attempting to make a good burn (which, FWIW, was fruitless)07:54
danielsi suspect it's just a bad batch07:54
mdzqemu is not entirely unreasonable anymore, i don't think07:54
mdzlast time I tried it it does actually get you to a working desktop07:54
danielssure, but people don't actually *own* 65554s07:54
danielsit gets you there eventually; it's just not the best real-world test07:55
mdzmost of the xorg-rooted live cd regressions have been debconf breakage, rather than actual probing issues07:55
danielsyeah, fair point07:55
mdzand qemu exercises that reasonably07:55
mdze.g., uses a different PCI ID / driver than the buildd07:55
Lathiati can do some real testing if you wanted07:55
mdzhopefully different from yours too07:55
mdzyou could fake the PCI ID thing pretty easily if you wanted07:55
mdzwith a timely console switch and editing session07:56
danielsor just hacking the cloop with some obscene value that would only ever be correct on an altix07:56
mdzdaniels: Lathiat has a point; if you can get binaries uploaded, the remastering process is already documented07:56
mdzso others can help test07:57
dilingerthere it goes08:02
dilingerLinux version 2.6.10-5-sparc64 (sparcbuildd@vultus5) (gcc version 3.3.5 (Debian508:02
dilingerfabbione: ping08:02
dilingerit didn't like the initrd at all08:02
dilingerRAMDISK: Compressed image found at block 008:02
dilingerRAMDISK: incomplete write (-28 != 32768) 838860808:02
dilingerVFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem).08:02
dilingerattempt to access beyond end of device08:02
dilingerram0: rw=0, want=17272, limit=1638408:02
dilingerand so on08:02
fabbionedilinger: argh... weird..08:03
fabbionewhat version of the isntaller?08:03
fabbionethat was fixed a looong time ago08:03
dilingeri just pulled it from the current directory a few mins ago.  timestamp on boot.img is mar 2008:03
mdzmissing ramdisk_size parameter?08:04
fabbionedilinger: ok.. you can increase that manually...08:04
fabbionemdz: probably just miscalculated08:04
fabbionemdz: Kamion and I fixed that a while ago08:04
mdzfabbione: just set it to a gigabyte and be done with it08:04
fabbionemdz: meh :-)08:04
mdzfabbione: that is what we do on the live CD08:04
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fabbionemdz: Kamion added a patch to d-i to calculate the proper ramdisk_size08:05
fabbioneapparently it didn't work as expected...08:05
dilingermeh, wtf just happened to minicom..08:05
fabbionedilinger: does that happen booting d-i or at the second stage?08:05
fabbionemdz: he is probably installing using a serial console08:06
fabbionelike i do08:06
mdzsure, but minicom is awful08:06
mdzeven cu is better :-)08:06
fabbioneminicom > *08:07
mdzminicom < 008:07
dilingeri've never tried cu08:07
dilingerfabbione: it happens booting d-i08:07
fabbioneok i can fix that with Kamion, but i am not going to upload d-i just for that08:08
fabbionedilinger: just increase the ramdisk_size08:08
fabbioneto like 1092301923090293029302903208:08
dilingerah sweet, sun just fixed docs.sun.com08:08
dilingerfabbione: how can i pass it kernel args?08:09
fabbioneare you doing netboot?08:09
fabbionejust from the OBP08:09
dilingerok; just another arg to boot net?08:09
fabbionenetboot ramdisk_size=08:09
fabbionedilinger: i am not sure you will be able to install ubuntu-desktop08:11
fabbionebecause sparc.u.c is actually on hold08:11
dilinger*shrug*, whatever, i just wanna see whether 2.6.10 works08:11
fabbionethe server is having load problems and the rsync from the main archive (with new packages) is temporary on hold08:12
dilingeri already started installing debian on it, after building qla22xx for 2.6.808:12
fabbioneah ok08:12
dilingerbut 2.6.8 hangs w/ a trap error when i chroot into it08:12
dilingerRAMDISK: Compressed image found at block 008:12
dilingerRAMDISK: incomplete write (-28 != 32768) 008:12
dilingerKernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(1,0)08:12
fabbionecan you check in the scroll back if it actually took the option?08:14
dilingerit did08:14
fabbioneotherwise i need test on my box08:14
dilingerKernel command line: ramdisk_size=1092301923090293029302903208:14
fabbioneah hold on08:14
fabbioneiirc when you netboot, and you pass an args08:15
fabbioneit overrides all the others08:15
fabbioneso you need to pass all of them08:15
jdub^ new MS fonts08:15
=== jdub shivers with desire.
danielsjdub: wow.08:17
fabbionedilinger: any luck?08:23
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pittimdz: still here?08:25
=== mode/#ubuntu-devel [+o daniels] by ChanServ
=== mode/#ubuntu-devel [+b *!*Maynard1@*.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net] by daniels
=== stiffy was kicked off #ubuntu-devel by daniels (daniels)
=== mode/#ubuntu-devel [-o daniels] by daniels
mrothdaniels: thank you.08:25
Lathiatswift and brutal :)08:25
danielsspambot that's hit #freedesktop as well08:26
Lathiatpeople l08:26
Lathiatike that dont usually use thign slike that08:26
Lathiatmust be some enviromentalist script kiddie08:26
mdzpitti: yes08:27
pittimdz: FYI, I did a Warty->Hoary upgrade test yesterday, works smooth as silk now :)08:28
dilingerfabbione: no08:29
mdzpitti: great, thank mvo08:29
=== pitti thanks mvo
fabbionedilinger: same error?08:29
pittiHey fabbione!08:29
fabbionehey pitti08:29
dilingerfabbione: it has the rather nice habit of cutting off the end of the line, too; i can't actually see what i'm typing, and the boot command line during boot doesn't show any of the initrd or root stuff :/08:30
dilingerRAMDISK: incomplete write (-28 != 32768) 008:30
dilingerKernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)08:30
fabbionedilinger: ok. i will test on my sparc as soon as libc6 completes its build.08:30
dilingerthat was initrd=/boot/initrd.gz root=/dev/rd/0 rootfstype=ext2 ramdisk_size=...08:31
fabbioneit might be something else that is borked08:31
dilingeri think.  as i said, i can't actually see what i'm typing :)08:31
fabbionedilinger: just expand the minicom term.. sometimes it fixes that problem08:31
dilingeryep, tried that; no luck08:31
dilingerminicom also hangs after it fails, and i send a break08:32
dilingeri end up having to kill -9 it08:32
=== dilinger looks at cu
dilinger       This program does not work very well.08:32
mdzI use ckermit, though it's unfortunately non-DFSG08:35
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fabbionedilinger: i wonder if there is a limitation on the initrd image size on sparc...08:42
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pittiinfinity: cool, that means for the PAM bug there is essentially no action required?08:49
pittithom, mdz: can we still package mozilla 1.7.6 for Hoary?08:51
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mdzpitti: does epiphany still use it?08:59
pittimdz: no, AFAIK ephi uses ffox now09:00
mdzpitti: if you regression test the reverse deps/build-deps, yes09:00
pittiokay, fine. It fixes a hell of a lot of bugs09:00
pittiHi zyga_ 09:01
=== zyga_ is now known as zyga
zygalibintl is doing good :)09:01
zygastill have to add some boilerplate09:01
pittimdz: eph d-deps m-firefox-dev09:01
pittib-deps even09:01
mdzpitti: 1.7.6 will still have security bugs, and we will have to fix them after the release :-/09:02
pittiyeah, sure09:02
zygabut mo loading, plural and singular lookups work great on ia64, i386, ppc and am6409:02
pittimdz: but thom already had a hard time porting the current ones to Warty (he can't even do this for all of them)09:02
mdzpitti: just wait until we are supporting 4 releases ;-)09:04
=== pitti runs away screaming
mdzpitti: are there unfixed vulnerabilities in mozilla in warty currently?09:04
pittimdz: heaps of them09:04
pittimdz: thom backported many of them, but he still did not finish09:05
pittimdz: I asked him about the status, let's see how it is going ATM09:05
mdzpitti: how long have they been unfixed?09:05
pittimdz: we can basically forget about the window injection, this is open for maybe two months now09:05
pittimdz: the other issues are open for some weeks09:06
mdzpitti: if we can't fix these in a timely manner, we may need to get additional help (as we do with the kernel)09:06
mdzpitti: ask thom if there is someone upstream we can work with09:06
pittiokay, I'll do09:06
fabbionemdz: amd64/ppc/ia64 are go with -30.. waiting i386 to finish09:33
mdzppc is no longer slowest?09:34
fabbioneamd64 > ia64 > ppc > i38609:34
fabbionebut that's because i have 2 distcc hosts out of the system atm09:34
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiHi carlos 09:35
mdzoh, these are your local builds, not the buildd builds09:35
fabbionewell amd64/ppc/ia64 are at the DC09:36
fabbionei386 is local09:36
mdzgood night09:36
fabbionenight mdz09:37
pittiargh, I can't login to the website09:41
pittielmo: ^ ?09:41
elmopitti: db upgrade happening09:41
elmotry again now09:41
pittielmo: works now, thanks09:42
fabbioneelmo: how much did you play with xen actually?09:48
elmofabbione: not at all :( haven't had a chance09:50
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fabbioneelmo: ah ok.. i had the feeling you did play with it before :-)09:50
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elmook, what the heck do I need compiled in to see the combo drive on an Xserve?09:57
elmoI tried both IDE CDROM and SCSI CDROM09:57
fabbioneelmo: is that a normal CDrom?09:58
sPoofelmo: Hi, did you notice the email about MoinMoin?09:58
elmofabbione: CD-RW/DVDR, but it's same as is in my powerbook, where just IDE CDROM works fine.. XServe is SATA tho09:59
elmosPoof: not yet, still catching up09:59
sPoofelmo: ok, I'll wait09:59
fabbioneelmo: ah.. well you need to compile the SATA support?10:00
elmofabbione: dude, it has SATA support, the disks are SATA, it wouldn't boot without it :P10:00
fabbioneelmo: oh.. is it one of this SATA/PATA crap?10:00
elmohmm, I doubt it, I thought that was specific to PIIX?10:00
elmobut ugh, could be, I guess10:01
fabbioneelmo: i have no idea really...10:01
fabbionei didn't grap for PATA in the entire tree10:01
fabbionelet me check10:01
fabbioneelmo: nope...10:01
fabbioneelmo: it's for all arch10:01
fabbionefor example..10:02
elmosorry, I mean I thought SATA hiding the PATA cdrom was a problem specific to PIIIIIIIX (or whatever it's called)10:02
elmohmm, crap, even with IDE + SCSI CD + SCSI generic, it's still not appearing10:03
fabbioneelmo: possibly true, but we don't know for sure, do we?10:03
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elmowhine.  I'll try 2.6.10 from hoary I guess10:05
fabbioneelmo: good idea10:05
elmogod it sucks not having a laptop10:05
fabbionewhat happened to your?10:05
fabbionestolen again?10:05
elmologic board failure (i.e. screen is dead)10:06
fabbioneelmo: before you start playing with 2.6.10 gimme a few minutes to upload -3010:06
fabbioneelmo: it will save you a reboot in like 2 hours10:07
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fabbioneelmo: it's on the way to jackass10:13
fabbioneelmo: uploaded10:17
zygadid firefox got broken with newest release?10:18
infinityThat was the single most horrifying computing experience evar.10:18
zygaopening the preference window shows XUL parsing error10:18
zygapitti: yes10:18
pittizyga: did you restart it after upgrading?10:18
zygapitti: checking..10:18
infinitydaniels : I'll need a hoary install CD from you.  My craptop thinks warty is teh suck.10:18
pittizyga: I often get such errors after ffox upgrades if I didn't restart yet10:18
pittiHi infinity 10:19
zygait's restarted and the error is still there10:19
infinityHey pitti.10:19
pittizyga: -> thom :)10:19
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pittiinfinity: that means the PAM bug is no issue for Debian/Ubuntu?10:19
zygathom: ping?10:19
infinitypitti : Well, the two portions of the changelog that jfs decided were "bad"... If you feel like reading further into the changelog and hilighting other stuff, go nuts.10:20
pittihm, I'll do this as soon as I finished the other pending security updates10:20
infinitypitti : I think the reality is that hartmans does a splendid job of keeping up with "real" bugs in PAM, and we probably needn't worry much, but it never hurts to be safe.10:20
infinitypitti : If you have more security stuff you want me to chase down, just ask.10:22
pittiinfinity: do you want to do the PAM review?10:22
infinityI can give it some time tomorrow.  That soon enough?10:23
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pittiinfinity: sure10:23
jdubfabbione: we're definitely not getting any more inotify updates?10:24
fabbionejdub: nope10:25
fabbionefrom now it's only critical or blocker or security bug fixes10:26
_d4vidhaya oll :p10:26
elmoGOD DAMN IT10:30
elmo2.6.10 doesn't work either10:30
thomzyga: delete XUL.mfasl from your ~/.mozilla/firefox/foo-default/ directory and restart10:31
pittiHi thom10:31
fabbioneelmo: ask benh on irc perhaps?10:31
pittithom: (wrt fixing ffox/mozilla for Warty):10:31
pitti<mdz> pitti: if we can't fix these in a timely manner, we may need to get additional help (as we do with the kernel)10:31
pitti<mdz> pitti: ask thom if there is someone upstream we can work with10:31
infinity'Morning thom.10:32
thomgood morning10:32
thompitti: yeah, i saw10:32
thompitti: i don't know of anyone10:32
thompitti: i'll look10:32
pittithom: what do you think, could you need help with this?10:33
infinitythom : Can I get your blessing to merge apache2 from Debian?... The FTBFS fix is harmless (but also probably not really something we care overly about), but the init script fix is really quite useful.  Like, stuff no longer breaks.10:33
infinitythom : mdz told me to ask you, so it's on your shoulders.10:33
thominfinity: oh man10:34
thominfinity: you suck :P10:34
infinitythom : The debdiff from -4 to -5 is tiny.  Read it yourself if you're concerned. :)10:34
zygathom: works, thanks10:34
infinitythom : (Oh, I also made some crazy ABI changes, but pay no attention to those)10:35
=== infinity whistles.
thominfinity: heh10:36
thomyeah, just reviewed the diff. go for it10:36
thomzyga: suck. ok10:36
infinitythom : Danke.10:37
thomi need to get the versioned profile deletion code i dreamed up yesterday written and tested10:37
thompitti: i'm not sure if anyone upstream will be interested, but i'll look10:39
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pittithom: btw, according to your activity reports you already backported some changes. how far have you come?10:41
Amaranthg'night all10:41
=== infinity -> home.
thompitti: almost all that backport time was on the window injection stuff, but i think i nailed most of the other problems. I'll get back to them after the RC10:46
pittiokay, fine10:46
thomjust downloading mozilla 1.7.6 now that keybuk has kindly MoMed it10:47
pittiyeah, the changelog of 1.7.6-1 is nice :)10:48
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pittithom: btw, one of the vulns also affects tbird, it is supposed to be fixed in 1.0.210:48
thompitti: tbird -> Mithrandir 10:49
pittioh, ok10:49
pittiMithrandir: will you package tbird 1.0.2 for Hoary or backport the security fix?10:49
=== aurelien [~zarmo@dra38-3-82-236-189-26.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
kagouanybody knows how to have french  instead ""  under gnome 2.10 ?10:51
pittikagou: AltGr+X and AltGr+Y10:52
pittifor German keyboards at least10:52
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kagouyes pitti , but i do not want shortcuts, i wan't to push the " key10:53
pittikagou: and how is Gnome supposed to know whether you want  or  ?10:53
kagoulike openofice ;)10:54
pittikagou: okay, my vim configuration does something like this for LaTeX, based on whitespace10:54
pittiMorning Kamion 10:54
sPoofelmo: Please check your mail - I think I found a different approach for MoinMoin10:54
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dredghey dholbach 10:57
pittiHi dholbach 10:57
mvomorning dholbach 10:57
dholbachhey dredg, pitti, mvo :-)10:58
dholbachcan't remember the last time, when i slept until 10:45... wow10:58
Kamionhm, I hate finding stuff from three and a half months ago that I forgot to upload10:59
dholbachbut it took me until 4:00 to make my 200th upload :-p10:59
pittidholbach: congrats :)11:00
dholbachthanks :-)11:01
elmosPoof: err, how is your (4) different to mdz's (2)?11:02
elmooh, conflicting, rather than installable together11:02
elmospoof: well, it's up to you guys, I've given my opinon (which is only relevant from the 'what do we run on our servers' POV)11:03
=== mvo cheers to dholbach
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sPoofelmo: The difference is installing vs. distributing concurrently. Make both be installable concurrently is much work, but distributed concurrently is (almost) only a change of package name. I'll discuss further with Matt.11:06
haggaiso I'm doing kdebindings for kubuntu, and also thinking about moving into main.  Am I right in thinking the .debs generated by a source package can straddle main/universe, but all build-deps have to be in main?  My problem is, I want things like python bindings in main but there are java & rugby build-deps that are only in universe11:07
jdubhaggai: we've split things for this previously (see dbus mono)11:07
=== enrico notices that the wiki frontpage displays a Site error
enricojdub: [ping]  bringing docteam documentation in Yelp's front11:14
enricojdub: [ping]  how is your review of the quickguide doing?11:14
enricojdub: [ping]  you wanted to talk with me about the packaging of documentation?11:15
jdubenrico: yo11:15
=== enrico did his routine jdub pinging for today
jdubenrico: it's far more useful to mail me11:15
jdubjust for future reference11:15
enricoI've generally been unlucky in pinging Canonical people on any media11:16
jdubvery busy, all of us :)11:16
enricoFairly frustrating to me11:17
Kamionat least those pings came with a content payload - far too many pings don't, incurring an extra round-trip time :)11:17
jdubenrico: email is almost always a better way to ping though11:17
enricoUnrelated to pings, the wiki frontpage displays "Site error".  Is anyone aware of it?11:18
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-44-246.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubenrico: yes, being looked at atm11:18
enricojdub: ok, cool!11:19
pittielmo: can I please have libiodbc2-dev in concordia:hoary dchroot?11:20
fabbioneelmo: can you please kick-back linux-source-2.6.10 -30 on ppc? usual random crash11:27
=== pitti releases his 100th security advisory
=== fabbione congrats pitti
Kamionpitti: happy anniversary11:27
dilingerpitti: that's a lot of candles11:27
pittithanks :)11:28
dholbachpitti: woohoo!11:28
fabbionepitti: and that's only warty!11:28
fabbionelet's see with hoary.. breezy.. and so on...11:28
Keybuksneezy snail11:28
pittifabbione: I look forward to the time when I have to fix four releases...11:28
fabbionepitti: so do i :-)11:28
pittiamu, Riddell: did I already forward you the long-outstanding TIFF vulns in kdegraphics?11:34
pittithom: can you install packages into dchroots?11:45
pittithom: can I please have libiodbc2-dev in concordia:hoary dchroot?11:51
tsengjdub: pong11:54
jdubtseng: dude11:54
jdubtseng: bad news11:55
tsengjdub: ya?11:55
jdubtseng: beagle 0.0.8 requires a mono micro upgrade11:55
jdubmore goalpost shifting :)11:55
tsengmicro = ?11:55
jdub1.0.5 -> 1.0.611:55
tsengthe gentoo maintainer advised against that one11:56
tsengand he knows better than I11:56
tsengill see if he has a fix for whatever issue11:57
fabbioneseb128: ping?12:00
fabbioneseb128: do you live in Paris, right?12:00
seb128no, 400km away from here12:00
fabbioneah ok.. 12:00
seb128ddaa does12:00
fabbionebubulle and ddaa do12:01
fabbioneis ddaa a DD?12:01
seb128why ?12:01
fabbionei am searching 2 DD's to sign a key for an NM12:01
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seb128/j #debian-devel-fr12:01
Mitarioi everyone12:01
seb128hi Mitario 12:01
Treenakshi Mitario 12:01
fabbioneseb128: thanks12:01
seb128fabbione: on d-d-f there is a bunch of DD from Paris12:01
pittidoko: ping12:03
thompitti: done12:04
=== Kamion belatedly attempts to baz get openssh@arch.ubuntu.com/openssh--MAIN--0
Kamionthis is going to take a while12:04
=== Lathiat would think the revisions would be cached somewhere
dokopitti: pong12:05
KamionLathiat: yeah - but it has to go back through all the old signatures while calculating ancestry12:06
Lathiatheh heh12:06
KamionLathiat: cacherev every 50 revisions I'm told12:06
Lathiatgo arch :)12:07
Kamionit's your birthday12:07
=== Lathiat laughs
tsengjdub: i really wouldnt be happy with a mono core upgrade this late in the game anyway12:10
tsengjdub: there no other way?12:10
jdubwe could backport a fix12:11
jdubi wonder what the total diff is12:11
tsengthat would be cool12:11
jdubbad time for bugging #dashboard12:12
sabmocsmurfix, what is the german team using for a website/forum?12:12
tsengyeah im going to work soon too12:12
jduboh well, later tonight :)12:12
tsengyeah this might have to happen over mail now12:12
tsengtime zones and all12:12
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Mitariomvo, here?12:20
dholbachfabbione: did you look at http://nm.debian.org/gpg_offer.php? kelbert@d.o and treinen@d.o are in paris12:21
mvoMitario: yes12:21
Mitariomvo, can we discuss the plan abit for u-m in hoary?12:21
fabbionedholbach: thanks.. we already solved :-)12:21
dholbachfabbione: ok... rocking :-)12:21
dholbachwe need such a list for ubuntu as well... it's the main reason that keeps people from MOTUness12:22
fabbioneit the choise of .fr debian people.. either they sign.. or their X will explode :P12:22
Mitariomvo, my idea would be to freeze the code at some day now and let the documenters/translators have some time, and let that release go into hoary12:22
mvoMitario: sure, should be go to /msg for it?12:22
mvo(to not spam the channel too much)12:22
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trukulotseng, have you seen beagle has released 0.0.8 ?12:23
tsengtrukulo: yes, I have..12:24
fabbionedholbach: good point...12:24
fabbionefood time12:24
trukulotseng, k, just informing12:27
trukulogood morning, everyone, of course12:27
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dholbachelmo: did you hear my morgue-request yesterday? please (re)move  vdkxdb, chill, cursel, ipmenu, nautilus-media, update, kernel-patch-2.4.25-m68k, kernel-patch-2.4.26-m68k, glademm, torch-examples, libmrproject 12:42
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dholbach(for the removal of  gcc-2.95  and  gcc-3.2  i'd like to have more adversaries)12:44
adobbie2.95 is still useful for old programs that haven't been updated12:45
adobbienot much use for gcc-3.2 imho12:46
dholbachwell they're not supported anymore :-/12:47
adobbienot supported by upstream you mean?12:47
dholbachi don't think anyone of the MOTU crew would be able to fix gcc bugs12:47
pittiadobbie: do you know a concrete case?12:51
fabbionepitti: CAN-2005-0204, i think we should still apply it12:54
pittifabbione: in Warty?12:54
fabbionepitti: we don't know for sure that users don't rebuild their kernels with the 4/4G patch12:54
fabbionepitti: yes. it is in hoary already12:54
pittifabbione: hmm, okay12:55
pittifabbione: I ask Herbert to patch it (simple patch...)12:55
fabbionepitti: exactly12:56
adobbiepitti: I have no time to make such a case12:57
pittiadobbie: no, I was just curious12:57
pittidholbach: however, if gcc-2.95 has serious issues (does it really? it's there for ages), just drop it12:57
pittidholbach: i. e. if it would be harmful to compile software with it12:58
dholbachnot harmful, but some packages hard-depend on it and they are all cracked-up, i had an issue somewhere, don't remember, someone advised me to drop it01:01
dholbachbut it's one of the cases where people might thrash me across the place for :-)01:02
dholbachso i wanted adversaries :-)01:02
svenldaniels: agp capability removed by the firmware now. The power management capability goes too though, for now, but as we don't support sleep anyway, that should be ok.01:02
svenldaniels: will make the cleaner fix next time.01:03
thomdholbach: i don't think adversaries is the word you mean to use, there01:03
dholbachoh yes01:03
dholbach<--- not awake yet01:03
thom:-) 01:03
dholbachadvocates of cours01:03
=== dholbach blushes crimson
thomhey, i have no idea what either advocate or adversary would be in german :-)01:04
dholbachthom: i always have   ding <word>   in place :-)01:04
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ajmitchdholbach: about gcc packages, there are some potential MOTUs with gcc hacking experience01:22
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dholbachajmitch: oh nice01:24
Kamionelmo: rookery's mirror seems to be wedged again; not updated for over a day01:29
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thomyo MOTU; should the universe comment in bugzilla tell people to use malone now?01:38
Treenaksthom: has it stopped giving out 502's yet?01:39
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froudmvo: ping01:42
mvofroud: pong01:42
dholbachthom: tell them to either  1) try malone, 2) drop in #ubuntu-motu, 3) mail ubuntu-users@  :-)01:43
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elmoerr, I need to down jackass (aka ftp-master, aka upload.ubuntu.com), for 10-15 mins... anyone got any major objections?01:46
fabbioneelmo: not from me01:47
thomdholbach: um, choices bad :-)01:47
thomdholbach: i'll leave as is01:47
Treenaksdholbach: we could change malone's 502 page to one refering to the mailinglist :)01:48
Treenaksdholbach: and just refer to malone01:48
dholbachyeah... people should try it and file bugs against malone too, if they run into trouble01:49
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dredgis it me or does the most recent firefox default to a grey background, overriding the specified default of white?01:58
thomit defaults to the gtk background, eys01:58
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dredgso if i want firefox to have a different default font and background colour i have to change my theme? despite the fact that there is no way (that i know) to change either of those 2 properties in gnome?02:01
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thomdredg: just untick "use system colours" in the fonts and colours dialogue02:04
dredggah. didn't see that02:05
thomgah, no ccache love makes mozilla compile a slow, slow affair02:08
Treenaksdredg: there is a way to change those in gnome: change your theme02:09
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fabbioneelmo: do you have an idea of when sparc.u.c will be up again?02:12
elmofabbione: tomorrow probably02:13
fabbioneKamion: we need to check again the way in which ramdisk_size is calculated in d-i02:13
Kamionfabbione: yeah, I saw, I'll have a look02:13
fabbioneKamion: last d-i upload it was too small for silo/netboot02:13
fabbioneKamion: thanks!02:13
fabbioneelmo: great!02:13
fabbionebtw.. the installation works like a charm.. 2 errors at the moment.. the keyboard selector doesn't allow "No keyboard connected"02:14
fabbioneand the missing packages from sparc.u.c02:14
fabbioneall the other things are working fine02:14
elmoKamion: today's daily okay for testing?02:18
thompitti: evo still builds and runs fine with new mozilla02:20
thompitti: so i'm gonna upload; agree?02:20
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pittithom: evolution uses mozilla?02:20
thompitti: yeah, libnss302:21
pittiah, ok02:21
pittiis this library affected in the first place?02:21
pittiI thought all of the vulns were at higher GUI-levels02:21
Kamionelmo: should be02:21
thomno, but it's built out of the same package02:22
thomand it's the only thing in main that is used by something else, so i needed to check02:22
Kamionthom: firefox background> Kinnison says "spank you"02:22
pittithom: okay, thanks for checking this02:23
thomKamion: heh; i'll assume he means it in a good way ;P02:24
dholbachseb128: ready to nuke gtkhtml3.{1,2} ?02:24
Kamionthom: you know Daniel ;)02:24
Kamionthom: ah, he has corrected my spelling to "spankoo"02:24
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seb128dholbach: sure02:30
dholbachseb128: it's on our cracked-up lists, so i came across it02:32
dholbachelmo: would you please morgu-ify gtkhtml3.1 gtkhtml3.2 ?02:32
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elmodholbach: can you mail me a list?  I'm busy in the DC atm, sorry02:33
pittiseb128: hmm, installing m-f-locale-fr (and -fr-fr) works fine here02:34
dholbachelmo: alright, will do02:34
seb128pitti: perhaps the guy has installed a package from somewhere ...02:34
thomelmo: still working on jackass?02:35
seb128pitti: just ignore it if you don't get the bug02:35
elmothom: err, kind of, it  doesn't seem to appreciate being a CD burner02:35
elmothom: should be good to upload ATM tho02:35
thomi think you need to kick poppy02:36
elmooh, err yeah02:36
thomyeah, looks good now. thanks02:37
Kamionelmo: surprised you didn't use little, since it's got the CDs to hand ;)02:38
Amaranthso...what happens when you try to use synaptic or apt-get at the exact moment update-notifier is running apt-get update?02:38
KamionAmaranth: it hits the lock file and errors, I imagine02:38
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pittiseb128: ah, you didn't get it yourself?02:41
seb128pitti: no, I don't use firefox, I don't even know if I've that installed02:41
seb128pitti: that's from a GNOME guy02:41
pittiseb128: do you still know the version he upgraded from?02:41
mvoAmaranth: you get a message that there is something going on. and update-notifier will set itself to insensible02:41
pittiseb128: m-f-l-fr-fr already has a Conflicts: mozilla-firefox-locale-fr (<= 1.0-1)02:42
pittiseb128: maybe this is not enough02:42
pittiargh, yes02:42
pittiit should be <= 1.0.1-102:42
pittiseb128: so do you know the version he upgraded from?02:43
seb128that's not in the upgrade message he gave me02:44
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seb128but I think he upgrades his hoary system quite often02:44
pittiokay, I tightened up the conflicts/replaces02:44
elmokamion: little has slimline cd drive02:47
elmokamion: and I got > 60Mb/s dl-ing the image to jackass, so having the images locally isn't much of a win ;)02:47
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elmoKamion: is the keyboard selector stuff meant to dump me back at the list once I finish pressing keys?02:51
elmoor smurfix ^-- too02:51
fabbioneelmo: yes02:52
fabbioneit asks to confirm the keyboard02:52
Riddelllamont: any idea what went wrong with the two failures here?  http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/k/kdelibs/4:3.4.0-0ubuntu3/02:54
Riddellone says no /usr/bin/doxygen which there should be02:54
elmoit's a very confusing UI02:55
Riddellother has problems with libraries02:55
lamontRiddell: doxygen is a build-dep-indep, will only be there on i38602:57
Kamionelmo: it was pretty confusing beforehand, to be fair; you had no visual indication of what the thing had picked02:57
Kamionelmo: so you were left wondering "did I press the right keys?"02:57
elmoeh, when I scroll back in less in a gnome terminal, it does this weird thing where it repeats the first line n times (where n is the num of lines on screen), _then_ paints in the previous page.. very visible.  on a very fast machine.  anyone know what that might be?02:58
Riddelllamont: how would that effect it?02:58
elmokamion: yeah, but now, I'm left thinking "WTF?  did it crash?" because I get dumped back to the same menu I started at, with no warning/info at all02:58
Kamionelmo: yeah, I think it might be better if it dropped you into the test mode immediately and said which keymap it had picked, and then you could select "go back" or "continue" depending on whether it got it right02:59
elmokamion: if the keyboard language line/selection was separate somehow from the other choices, it might be easier02:59
elmo+ too02:59
Kamionmm, could be03:00
lamontRiddell: was looking at the ppc log03:00
elmoseb128: iz gtk bug?03:00
lamontRiddell: will look at it when I get back from taking kids to school.03:00
Kamionelmo: mm, I notice that too, it's weird03:00
Kamion(just confirmation, no actual information or help or anything)03:00
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seb128elmo: hum, I don't get this bug here (or I don't understand it correctly)03:02
elmoI only see it with gnome-terminal too, xterm is fine03:02
seb128what do you do exactly ?03:02
KamionI see it on fresh installations all the time03:02
elmoseb128: less /var/log/dmesg, press '>' to go the end, then press 'w' to go a page back up03:03
elmoif you have the bug, you'll see exactly what I mean03:03
KamionI think the problem is that the terminal is not an exact number of lines high by default03:03
Kamionthere's always half a line or so of text at the bottom03:03
Kamionbecause it's fine in Debian where the font/terminal-size combination makes the terminal an exact number of text lines high03:04
seb128lemme try with an another font, I use "fixed" :p03:04
seb128hum, yep, I get it in a gdmflexiserver with a fresh config03:05
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danielsinfinity: Errrrr ... will Saturday do?  I don't think I can download it by tomorrow.03:30
danielssvenl: cool, thanks (I assume you just set the first capability pointer to 0x0)03:32
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thomhrm, we really ought to turn bugzilla's quips off03:39
Treenaksthom: why?03:42
thomTreenaks: have you *looked* at the list?03:43
Treenaksthom: not too bad, is it03:43
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thomeach and everyone of the last half of the list causes me pain everytime i see them ;-)03:44
Treenaksthom: so all we need is a quip moderation system 8)03:46
=== thom goes to visit his poorly brother
thomhave a good easter, folks03:52
Treenaksyou too03:53
pittithom: you too, have fun03:56
seb128have a good weekend thom :)03:57
seb128thom: that's no a theme issue, I'm reassigning to firefox :p03:57
thomseb128: even though OOo is broken too?03:58
thomsorry dude, not my bug03:58
seb128have you read the mozilla bug ?03:58
seb128they say that's fixed in 1.103:59
mvohave fun thom 03:59
seb128(for firefox)03:59
mvo(on easter)03:59
thomseb128: they also claim world hunger is fixed in 1.1, but i'm not backporting that, either ;-)03:59
seb128ah ah03:59
seb128I'm not asking to fix it 04:00
seb128just don't reassign bugs to the wrong place, I've enough real bugs in my list :p04:00
thomso one more won't hurt ;-)04:01
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lamontRiddell: question: what happens when buildd-watcher decides to launch a _second_ buildd?  Answer: your logs.04:08
lamontwell, 2nd buildd killed./04:08
Riddelllamont: why would it decide to do that?04:09
lamontRiddell: because it has a bug04:09
Riddellpesky beastie04:09
lamontbuildd-watcher is specifically tasked with starting a buildd if and only if one is not currently running04:09
Riddelllamont: are you going to send it back for another compile?04:11
lamontalready did, but I'll see what else there is and kick them too04:12
smurfixelmo, Kamion: I can add an empty line below the current keymap, and maybe add a "Your keyboard:" line before that. Would that help?04:16
smurfixI'm a bit hesitant to shunt people to the try-this dialog directly04:17
elmosmurfix: I think it might be better, yah04:17
smurfixI'll work on it tonight -- need to go shopping + fetch family from airport now :-/04:19
schweebelmo: I've been told I should ask you to whitelist my email04:19
bob2where there ever any PPC macs without openfirmware?04:19
Kamionbob2: not AFAIK, but some of them (oldworld) had very broken OF04:22
KamionI might be wrong, there may be one or two exceptions04:22
bob2Kamion: would sarge work on such a machine?04:23
elmoschweeb: done04:24
Kamionbob2: no04:24
Kamionbob2: er, you said sarge04:24
Kamionbob2: "maybe"04:24
zygadoes acpi stuff works on recent ppc?04:24
Kamionbob2: you have to use Sven's miboot floppies for oldworld, or mess with BootX04:24
Kamionzyga: powerpc doesn't have ACPI at all04:24
Kamionzyga: the power management system is different04:25
zygaKamion: ah04:25
schweebelmo: thx04:25
zygaKamion: is it supported by recent kernels?04:25
lamontmvo: you around>?04:26
zygaKamion: I'm planning tu buy a mac and still cant decide mac mini vs ibook04:26
Kamionzyga: yes, it's supported04:27
Kamionzyga: suspend-to-disk doesn't quite have userspace support yet, but it's nearly there AFAIK04:27
bob2zyga: ubuntu kernels do not yet support sleep on g4 ibooks, tho04:27
Kamionworks fine on powerbooks04:27
Kamiondunno if there's some ibook quirk04:27
bob2Kamion: #475904:27
Kamionthis sort of thing is often model-specific04:27
Kamionbob2: which is, er, RESOLVED/FIXED04:28
zygahmm powerbooks don't have the nifty educational discounts here :/04:28
bob2Kamion: oh, oops04:28
zygathanks anyway 04:28
Kamionbob2: do keep up at the back ;)04:28
schweeblamont: I can't find which file it's in... it's in this one though, and it's on the MOTOTodo http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/Lists/hoary-test.all.i38604:28
Kamionzyga: should be fine either way04:28
bob2zyga: so, hoary does support sleep on those ibooks now04:28
schweeblamont: and here's the build log http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/k/kismet/2004.04.R1-5/kismet_2004.04.R1-5_20050323-1031-i386-failed 04:29
bob2Kamion: hah, I've been bugging fabbione for like 4 months now, didn't notice he'd actually done it ;)04:29
zygabob2: that's great to know04:29
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pittibob2: works great now04:32
pittibob2: with fabio's latest patch it might even work with DRI04:32
bob2oh, cool04:32
truluxpitti: how good is a ssp-supported toolchain for you if providing it within Hoary+1?04:33
pittitrulux: if it's compatible with the direction that gcc-4.0 goes, it'd rock :)04:34
truluxpitti: I was studying the case and definitely, SSP/ProPolice shouldn't be enabled by default in the "default" profile, so, we can end in using profiled gcc installations, which provide "Plug & Play" support for such technologies04:34
pittitrulux: however, it has to go through universe first04:34
truluxpitti: I have started porting SSP to 4.004:34
truluxpitti: I have many work done, just in need of help from a gcc hacker to get rid of the old in_stack related functions, which are now split up or removed04:35
pittiamu, Riddell: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10232804:35
truluxdoko: ping04:36
pittiseb128: "gnome-session-remove nautilus" doesn't finish04:37
pittiseb128: I already tried this some days ago when debugging g-vfs-daemon04:37
seb128are you runnin nautilus in your session ?04:37
pittihmm, I suppose ...04:37
seb128if not killlall nautilus is enough04:37
seb128it should not respawn04:37
seb128try to killall it04:38
seb128does it restart ?04:38
pittiokay, I did killall, but g-s-r nautilus still hangs04:38
pittistill respawns, already tried that04:38
seb128that's because it doesn't find a nautilus in the session04:38
seb128try the remove again ?04:38
seb128that's weird04:38
pitti$ pidof nautilus; killall nautilus; sleep 1; pidof nautilus04:38
pittiah, now it terminates04:39
seb128nice :)04:39
pitticool. it's away04:39
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amupitti: thx, worth to add the patch04:43
lamontRiddell: everything failed from mcmurdo given back04:43
Riddelllamont: I don't see any logs04:44
dokotrulux: pong04:44
pittiseb128: I know the solution04:45
pittiseb128: enable debugging by default, then it won't ever happen :)04:45
seb128pitti: it works with debug ?04:45
lamontRiddell: like 2 minutes ago04:45
pittiseb128: no, I could reproduce some of it even with debugging04:45
truluxdoko: do you have any knowledge on 4.0 changes from 3.4, talking in trms of reg related functions and RTX macros?04:46
dokotrulux: the right thing for work on SSP is HEAD, not 4.0, then yuo may consider a backport.04:46
dokotrulux: no04:46
truluxI'm working on gcc-4_0-branch04:46
truluxfrom yesterday snapshot04:46
dokoso why not head?04:47
truluxjust as specified in the CVS "faq", they recommend to use the development branches04:47
dokowho is "they"?04:47
truluxdoko: why HEAD? the trunk shouldn't be that different from the 4.0 branch04:48
truluxdoko: gcc.gnu.org04:48
dokotrulux: the GCC project never ever had new functionality added in any development branch. HEAD only. I'd say, they won't change their mind for SSP04:49
pittiseb128: so, now I have four logs for cp works/fails and rm works/fails04:49
truluxdoko: no point for that, it's work for Ubuntu Hardened04:49
truluxwe want to have ready a gcc-4.0 +ssp toolchain04:50
dokotrulux: "the trunk shouldn't be that different", so why not HEAD?04:50
elmotrulux: ubuntu isn't going to adopt it, if it's not adopted upstream04:50
elmo(to put what doko's saying into context)04:51
seb128pitti: anything interestant in the log ?04:51
pittiseb128: yeah, might be04:52
pittiseb128: in the failed case, I get "dropped" logs04:52
truluxelmo: ask pitti04:52
pittiseb128: I just attach all this crap to the bug04:52
truluxdoko: I will use HEAD, just lemme finish the work with the branch and then make a diff to apply to HEAD04:52
dokotrulux: :)04:53
truluxdoko: I'm getting pissed off by the wanker who changed the place of *_into_stack_*() functions :D04:56
Riddelllamont: how come there's no new build logs for kdelibs if it's failed?04:57
danielsmdz: right ... i haven't slept near enough yet and continuing to stay awake to work on this is just overall detrimental (zombified when I could be sleeping such that I can work properly when I wake up).  i'm going to post a copy of my latest xorg source on chinstrap; totally untested, but should work and quash most of the debconf bugs.  i810 is an exercise for later.  need to sleep now; will just babysit this through patch application, t04:58
lamontThu Mar 24 15:58:52 GMT 200504:59
lamontkdelibs_4:3.4.0-0ubuntu3_20050324-1544   00:34:23 (2 entries, sigma 00:00:41)04:59
lamontbecause we're 14 minutes into a 34 minute build...04:59
lamontand I just tossed the ppc build back into the fray as well.04:59
lamontand that'll be a 38 minute build or so, once it actually starts04:59
Riddelllamont: oh, I misread what you wrote above, ignore me, I'll be patient05:00
lamontdamn instant-gratification generation, anyway.... :-)05:00
Kamiondaniels: cut off at "patch application, t"05:01
danielsmdz: http://chinstrap/~daniels/, making its way up now05:01
danielsKamion: thanks05:01
danielsKamion: 'then put sources up'05:01
danielsok, it's up now; g'night all05:02
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danielsmdz: (but do *not* upload; there's a neat little corner case related to $MONITOR_SYNC_RANGES that will bite us in the arse if -6 as it stands ever hits the archive)05:10
seb128pitti: the gamin issue happens only on the desktop ?05:11
pittiseb128: in contrast to?05:12
seb128hum ?05:12
seb128does it happen in ~/bar by example05:13
seb128or is that ~/Desktop specific ?05:13
seb128ie: is there general monitoring broken05:13
seb128or only for the Desktop dir ?05:13
seb128there is a comment from Jeff saying:05:14
seb128"communicating changes (not sure which). The bugs are filed about the desktop,05:14
seb128because that's where we see most file change notification take place."05:14
Burgundaviait also happens on in home about 2 times out of 305:14
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seb128pitti: dpkg -l | grep gamin ?05:30
pittiseb128: ah, I see05:30
pittiseb128: gf alert here, will do this later05:30
=== Kamion hands seb128 a "useless use of grep" award :)
schweebKamion: not necessarily, depends what you're lookin for :p05:31
schweebdpkg -l gamin wouldn't show libgamin05:31
schweebalthough you could use *gamin*05:31
pittiii  gamin                    0.0.26-0ubuntu1          File and directory monitoring system05:31
pittiii  libgamin-dev             0.0.26-0ubuntu1          Development files for the gamin client library05:31
pittiii  libgamin0                0.0.26-0ubuntu1          Client library for the gamin file and directory monitoring syste05:31
pittiseb128: ^05:31
Kamionschweeb: \*gamin\* is indeed what I meant05:32
seb128and here you reloged with the new version ?05:32
Kamionschweeb: (it's even better than using grep - dpkg -l assumes 80 columns when writing to a pipe, unless you explicitly set COLUMNS)05:32
seb128Kamion: too lazy to enter 2 "\"05:32
seb128need to altgr to get them :p05:32
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zygaanyone related to gstreamer around?05:33
Kamionseb128: your keymap sucks :-)05:33
seb128Kamion: ah ah05:33
KamionI think I've committed all of my debian-cd changes in nice little separated chunks now05:34
=== pitti goes for a round of table tennis, cu later
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seb128have fun pitti 05:35
dholbachsee you later05:42
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_d4vidhi all06:06
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Mitariohey again everyone06:06
mvohey, welcome back Mitario 06:07
svenldaniels: yep. i just set the first capability pointer to 0. for now, i want to do the proper thing, but i have no static memory in the rtas callback, so it is not all that easy. For next time.06:07
mdzseb128: my panel crashed overnight again06:13
ogramorning mdz06:13
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mdzseb128: different stack06:13
mdzthe stack is pretty crazy06:13
mdzseb128: this is after moving my ~/.recently-used as you suggested06:13
seb128mdz: I've spoken with Vincent about that yesterday, he has not real idea of what could happen06:14
seb128the backtraces are weirds06:14
mdzmy panel has a system monitor, workrave, and weather06:15
mdzand then gaim and the mixer have notification icons, and of course the clock06:15
seb128he thinks that maybe some gamin events are arriving hours after the action06:15
mdzit's strange that it never happens while I am here06:16
seb128does it happen when you use your computer sometime ?06:16
seb128does it happen without the notify area or gaim ?06:16
mdzgaim was not running this morning, but there was no crash dialog for it06:17
mdzso I may not have left it running06:17
mdzI've been rebooting, etc. to test things and am not sure that I connected this time06:17
mdzI have some errors in ~/.xsession-errors06:18
mdzThe program 'gaim' received an X Window System error.06:18
mdzThis probably reflects a bug in the program.06:18
mdzThe error was 'BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)'.06:18
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seb128mdz: gaim does that when the panel crash :/06:19
seb128mdz: ie: killall gnome-panel and you get that error06:19
elmoKamion: live CD on powerpc started by SW RAID - it didn't on amd64... bug?06:20
mdzelmo: what sort of device is the SW raid on?06:20
Kamionelmo: "started by SW RAID"?06:20
elmomdz: SATA06:20
elmokamion: s/by/my/06:20
seb128mdz: any opinion on https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/7927 ? That's OO.o/firefox beeing broken with the Simple theme06:20
Kamionelmo: I guess so (bug), yeah06:21
Kamionmdz: the live CD does do mdrun on startup, doesn't it?06:21
Kamionelmo: would be worth checking what /dev/md* / /dev/md/* devices are there06:21
elmo/dev/md0 is there06:21
mdzKamion: the live CD does S25mdadm-raid06:22
seb128mdz: I think we should just ignore it for hoary. The guy is complaining but that's not a widely used theme and not a gnome-theme bug06:22
mdzwhich runs after hotplug06:22
elmo(which is / in the installed system)06:22
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mdzso in theory it should work06:22
mdkeseb128, that theme is quite dodgy imo06:22
mdzseb128: I agree06:22
mdkeseb128, you can't read the progress bars either06:22
mdzseb128: unless you want to remove the theme06:22
seb128no I don't :)06:22
mdzelmo: does an explicit sudo /etc/init.d/mdadm-raid start work?06:23
elmomdz: on which arch?06:23
mdzelmo: the one where it isn't started06:23
elmooh, I was assuming it wasn't meant to start06:23
elmomdz: I dunno, I'll reboot concordia in a sec06:24
mdzit's meant to start06:24
seb128mdz: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7911, any idea ? kernel issue ?06:26
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ograseb128, hmm, a lsmod output would be interesting...06:31
mdzseb128: cdrecord sucks06:33
mdzeither cdrecord or kernel06:33
mdzseb128: I have a USB DVD burner which works perfectly for DVD with growisofs and nautilus, but cdrecord doesn't work at all06:34
seb128mdz: k06:34
seb128ogra: feel free to comment on the bug if you have an idea :)06:34
ograyop, just writing06:34
mdzseb128: I think that cdrecord notices that it is a DVD burner and then intentionally breaks CD burning in order to try to get you to buy his DVD burning software06:35
Mitariomvo, wb!06:35
Mitariomvo, help button is in CVS ;-)06:36
mvoMitario: thanks, you rock!06:36
seb128mdz: rofl06:36
Mitariomvo, tell me when we're ready to freeze!06:37
Mitariooh, i hate it when I can't work on trashapplet..06:38
kokeIIRC, there are plans to run synaptic as user, and separate the root part?06:46
mvokoke: it's something I would like to do, yes06:46
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kokeis there any way before that to make synaptic use the user configuration, like "text next to icons"??06:47
mvokoke: not in a sane way06:48
mvokoke: the theme is one issue, but the proxy settings are way more anoying 06:48
kokemvo: anyway, the gui part should run as user06:49
kokethe problem here is that I'm on a 800x600 desktop06:49
kokeand the toolbar is too big06:49
ogramvo, so lets go insane ;)06:49
kokeactually, all is too big :P06:49
mvokoke: yes it should, but it doesn't right now06:50
ogramvo, i mean, it would be possible to read the gconf and gnome settings from the calling user....even if it runs as root06:51
kokemvo: has someone started to code it, I'd like to help06:51
kokeeven not knowing c++ :)06:51
mvokoke: it's something for breezy. noone is working on it right now. it shouldn't be too hard, but there are a lot of corner cases 06:52
mvokoke: I have a 800x600 testmachine, it's not _that_ bad :)06:52
kokemvo: even 1024x768 is too low for me :)06:52
mvokoke: you can use "Settings/Toolbar" to make it "Text beside icons"06:53
mvoogra: it is possible, but it's a can of worms06:53
kokemvo: yep, I've done that06:53
kokebut synaptic runs as root06:53
mvokoke: synaptic has a "Settings/Toolbar" in it's menu :)06:54
kokemvo: aahm, ok06:54
mvokoke: what other areas do you find to big?06:54
kokemvo: all :P06:55
kokeI'm using 800x600 in a 17''06:55
kokemvo: anyway the "target users" of this computer haven't very good vision :D06:56
kokeogra: just like http://www.grawert.net/weblog.cgi/2005/03/12#2005-02-12_21:46:04_Our_virtual_grannys :P06:57
ograhehe :)06:57
ograkoke, blame my girlfriend06:57
seb128mdz: about the panel crash, what does the bt looks like ? Similar to the previous one ?06:59
mdzseb128: I mailed it to you07:00
mdzit's nonsense though07:00
seb128oh, right07:00
seb128utch, what's that07:00
pittiHi mdz 07:00
drosswho here is knowledable with laptops?07:00
pittiseb128: the gamin bug is almost worse with other directories07:01
drosside: failed opcode was: unknown07:01
drosshda: task_in_intr: status=0x51 { DriveReady SeekComplete Error }07:01
drosshda: task_in_intr: error=0x10 { SectorIdNotFound }, LBAsect=156296166, sector=15629616607:01
pittiseb128: in any case it fails after a couple of tries07:01
drossubuntu spits that out at me about 8 times in a row at boot. Hardware or software problem? (80 gig drive)07:01
mdzdross: most likely hardware07:01
drossmdz: any way to tell?07:01
mdzdross: #ubuntu, please07:01
ograbradb: ping07:01
drossmdz: this isn't a generic question.07:02
bradbogra: hi07:02
drossmdz: I'm asking here to know if its kernel related. 07:02
seb128pitti: 07:02
seb128<DV> seb128: I can't make sense of this problem07:02
seb128<DV> seb128: except maybe if the client uses a version 0.0.24 and the server is > 0.0.2507:02
seb128<DV> seb128: they must delog/relog after the latest gamin update and try to reproduce the problem07:02
ograbradb, hi, sabdfl told me i could announce malone on the ubuntu-users ML after your "GO"07:02
seb128pitti: you have reloged I guess ?07:02
bradbogra: hm07:03
pittiseb128: you mean after the 0.0.26 update?07:03
bradbogra: i want to be careful about jumping the gun. ubuntu-users is a large audience.07:03
pittiseb128: sure, I reboot every day07:03
seb128hum, k07:04
mvokoke: :)07:04
ograbradb, i'm patient.... just tell me if youre ready to go....07:04
bradbogra: i'd rather rely on word of mouth for the time being, i think. after a week or two of MOTU usage, then maybe we hit ubuntu-users. what do you think?07:04
ograbradb, sure, your baby :)07:05
bradbogra: plus, i think mdz plans to leak it on the Ubuntu bugzilla07:05
mdzbradb: just as soon as I can get you jokers to agree on a URL07:05
ograbradb, dont get me wrong, i dont want to push you07:05
mdzand actually let people log in ;-)07:05
drossoh boy..07:05
bradbogra: i really want 24 hours of admin availability too, which means salgado needs to be 100% ready to take on that responsibility.07:05
drossmdz: nevermind. I think the partitioner was confused and partitioned a label past what the size of my drive is07:06
bradbmdz: i guess you have to ask sabdfl. i think my URL is the best one to use right now, but mpt decided to complicate matters. :P07:06
ograbradb, ok, i'm _patiently_ waiting until you blow the horn, was just a question, dont feel pushed07:06
bradbogra: sure, i'll let you know.07:07
mdzbradb: what about logging in?07:07
bradbregistering, you mean?07:07
mdzbradb: that would be a prerequisite, yes07:09
=== bradb asks mpt
mdzbradb: people are already lining up on -users to use malone; it's leaked07:11
bradbleak means people have found out about it. an announcement means we're /ready/ for it. :)07:12
bradbwe're not ready for an announcement yet.07:12
bradbcase in point: we slashdotted Malone in the MOTU demo. (those problems are fixed now, IIUC.)07:12
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bradbmdz: as for registering, mpt has a fix for that, he says, so the workaround of having to sign up via the plone site should be very temporary (like a matter of a couple days, one would hope)07:18
fabbionehey mdz07:20
fabbionemdz: we are go with -31 if nothing special will show up07:20
bradbmdz: the bug filing link will be https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs then07:21
bradbwell, the Ubuntu bugs home page, that is (+filebug is the actual bug filing screen)07:22
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elmomdz: sigh, sorry, my bad - it does start on amd64, I got confused by the "md0: stopped" msg in dmesg, and difference in loudness (amd64 is just one line of "Starting RAID", powerpc was like half a screen of the md auto-detect crap07:25
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pittifabbione: still no ppc sleep with enabled DRI with -3107:38
pittifabbione: or, rather, no resume07:39
fabbionepitti: tought luck..07:39
fabbionewe did our best07:39
pittifabbione: sure, thanks for that07:39
pittifabbione: I do have sleep/resume without DRI, that's perfect for me07:39
fabbioneok :-)07:39
pittifabbione: I don't play tuxracer so often :)07:39
pittifabbione: the sleep patch rocks :)07:39
pitticu guys, have nice holidays!07:41
seb128same for you pitti 07:41
dredgso long pitti 07:41
ograbye pitti 07:42
pittiand don't cause me a bad conscience because all of you are still working !!! :-)07:42
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elmois there a side-by-side diff program?08:01
truluxdoko: http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/patches/gcc-4.0/ssp-propolice.patch08:01
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mdzelmo: diff -y08:05
elmoaha, thanks08:05
mdzKamion: what do you think about starting the RC test cycle on Monday?08:05
mdzseb128: do you know when you'll be finished with 2.10.1?08:05
Kamionmdz: fine by me, modulo Xhosa translation stuff08:06
mdzKamion: that's due Monday, yes?08:06
ograelmo, koke (Jorge Benal) was approved today, he sent you the key 08:10
elmoogra: has he done the dance with mako?08:11
ograelmo, he was approved as mamber in the last CC meeting, so i guess yes08:12
ogramember even08:12
ograkoke ^^08:13
kokeI think he comfirmed that in the community council08:14
mdzogra: the new process is that mako checks credentials, etc. and then passes a list to elmo to process08:14
kokeI really have to go now, please check the logs08:14
kokethanks to all08:14
mdzogra: so if it is not in that list, prod mako08:14
elmoATM, he's not08:14
dholbachmako: ping08:14
ogramdz, yeah, i'll do....time was a bit short between the two dates ;)08:14
kokeelmo: actually I sent it08:15
kokewhat I can't remember is if he comfirmed he'd received it08:15
ograkoke, yup, but makos forwarding to elmo is required08:15
ograkoke, so we may have a little delay08:15
kokeok, I'll be back later08:16
ograbye koke, and welcome aboard again08:16
ogragrr, must get quicker...08:16
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Burgundaviaelmo: ping08:43
dholbachdaniels: ping08:51
mdzjbailey: so are there any unresolved cases left for #1440, or are we finally rid of it?08:58
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jbaileymdz: I'm waiting for a final confirmation of the install actually finishing.09:00
jbaileyThen I will burn it in pit and dance naked around it in the moonlite while chanting.09:00
lamontwth is /etc/gshadow?09:03
jbaileylamont: For group passwords.09:03
zuljbailey: heh..09:08
noharjbailey: do you maintain libc6 ?09:08
nohari am going to be annoying :)09:09
jbaileynohar: Notwithstanding that we don't have a real concept of a sole maintainer, I'm one of the people insane enough to care for it...09:09
noharok :)09:09
nohari am trying to fix a bug i found09:10
noharwhich is very annoying for PaX users09:10
noharthat is in libc6-i68609:10
nohari do believe it is nptl related09:10
noharhear about such a bug ?09:11
jbaileyProbably.  It's not like PaX and various apps not playing along well is an unheard of idea. =)09:12
noharwell :)09:13
nohari have no problem with apps i use09:13
noharbut with ubuntu the system is unusable09:13
noharnot even bootable09:13
noharapt-get remove lib6-i686 and the system works like a charm09:14
nohar(and this totally rox)09:14
jbaileynohar: I need error messages to be of any real use to you.  Do you know how to setup a chroot?09:15
noharyes of course09:16
noharbut that's what annoying09:16
noharthe only message is segfault :)09:16
nohari tried to strace to locate the bug09:16
jbaileyWell, I didn't want to assume. =)09:16
ograjbailey, could you take some pictures from the dancing ? i'd like to put them on planet.ubuntu.com09:16
jbaileyFor segfault, the only asnwer is probably gdb.09:16
noharand to me, it occures in init() of the tls libc09:17
jbaileyDoes it segfault at startup?09:17
noharyep :)09:17
noharit's definitely while loading libs09:17
jbaileynohar: Has this always happened, or did it start recently?09:17
nohari don't this it's ld.so even though i am not 100% sure09:17
nohari tried ubuntu only lately09:18
nohari shoud try older libc packages09:18
nohargoot idea09:18
noharsee, you already helped me :)09:18
jbaileylately is how recently, btw?09:19
jbaileyDo you mean in the last day, or, say, a few days ago?09:19
noharlast week09:19
noharoh a new libc package :)09:20
noharlet's try09:20
jbaileyOh good.  I had touched the linker code in the upload yesterday morning and wanted to make sure that there was no chance of this being a new bug from that.09:21
noharthat's not that09:21
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noharwell same thing09:25
jbaileynohar: Are you on the system without libc6-686 right now?09:27
nohari am on a sid :)09:27
nohari chroot in a ubuntu09:28
noharand i move /lib/tls/i686/cmov out of the way09:28
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nohari ma installing libc6-i686_2.3.2.ds1-13ubuntu2.2_i386.deb09:28
jbaileyI'm curious for you to do an ldd /bin/ls, and tell me which libpthread it's using when libc6-i686 isn't present09:29
nohar        libpthread.so.0 => /lib/tls/libpthread.so.0 (0x27294000)09:29
jbailey'kay.  Then it's not an nptl issue.09:30
jbaileynohar: Can you message me the output of cat /proc/cpuinfo ?09:30
noharand flood :)09:31
noharhow can i debug this09:32
nohari am short of idea09:32
jbaileyErm.  I didn't think that k7's were supposed to play along with the 686 libraries.09:32
elmothey're not09:32
noharvery wierd it's only crashing with a pax kernel09:33
noharjbailey: the loader is supposed to automatically chose the proper libc  to load ?09:34
noharah gf calling09:34
jbaileynohar: Yes.  But I see on my k7 box here that it's using tls/i686/cmov libraries too...09:34
nohari figured that was normal since i had no probs with the default kernel09:35
mdzelmo: /dev/shm/root is odd09:35
nohari really would like to understand this one...09:35
nohari have to eat ++09:35
noharthanks for your time jbailey :)09:36
elmomdz: it then errors out and dumps me at "enter root password" to continue prompt, but isn't accepting what I'm 99% sure is the right password09:36
jbaileynohar: I can't offer you anything that will help you understand it quickly.  Basically you'll need to static link with debug symbols, start somewhere in _libc_start and walk through the disassembled instructions.09:36
jbaileynohar: The C code is unlikely to be enlightening.09:36
elmomdz: it's not a CD in the drive tho (I'm on crak OF wouldn't boot off it)09:36
nohari will09:36
Burgundaviaelmo: did you get my (corey Burger) email regarding whitelisting my email addy?09:36
mdzelmo: massive filesystem corruption?09:36
elmomdz: yes, suspect so09:37
elmooh, to the point of /etc/passwd being hosed..hmm09:37
elmoKamion: how do I get yaboot to stop, so I give it arguments?09:37
mdzit doesn't pause by default?09:37
jbaileyelmo: Mine just pauses..09:37
mdzI thought it did09:37
elmomdz: I didn't see one on last reboot09:38
elmobut just holding a random key worked :)09:38
elmookay find / when C-c doesn't work sucks09:41
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mdzwhy is it that someone renames FrontPage in the wiki every other week?09:43
elmomdz: maybe we should ask sm to acl it so they can't?09:43
bluefoxicydammit, I can't find an RFC for tar.  Nevermind then.09:44
mdzelmo: if it's possible, sure09:44
Kamionelmo: the pause is 5 seconds by default, or 10 seconds if there were other OSes installed09:44
smI was thinking that this morning and forgot.. will do09:44
ograwasnt that done when we switched to the plone wiki09:44
Kamionelmo: but maybe it takes that long for the prompt to appear or something09:44
mdzjbailey: is @euro the problem in http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8155 ?09:44
Kamionogra: haha, you're assuming zwiki has features09:44
smtrouble is, I'm not sure it's the right version 09:45
ograKamion, iirc someone told so09:45
smto lock09:45
Kamionmdz: .UTF-8@euro is harmless apart from being pointless; it's identical to .UTF-809:45
=== bluefoxicy wanted to get information to write an RFC describing a .deb based on the RFC for gzip/bzip2 and tar, though there seems to be no tar RFC, nor bzip2, but a gzip one
Kamionmdz: although I suppose it might confuse the odd thing that does textual parsing of locale names09:45
mdzKamion: in #8155his applications seem to be acting as if they don't grok UTF-809:46
=== sm simply disables FrontPage delete button
bluefoxicynone of the package formats (tgz, deb, rpm) have an RFC o.O09:46
bluefoxicyat all09:46
Kamionmdz: sounds to me as if the shell's locale is UTF-8 but the terminal's is not09:46
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mdzbluefoxicy: not every file format is an IETF standard; this is not a bug09:47
Kamionmdz: *something* is generating UTF-8 or he wouldn't be seeing that at all09:47
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bluefoxicymdz:  true.  I just like standards09:47
KamionRFCs are not the only kinds of standards :)09:47
KamionI'd be kind of surprised to find very many file formats standardised in the same medium used for Internet protocols, TBH09:48
bluefoxicyOgg has its own RFC09:48
Kamionogg is streamed over the net09:48
jbaileymdz: No, that shouldn't be it at all.09:48
bluefoxicyKamion:  and gzip, and zlib too :)09:48
Kamionbluefoxicy: *shrug* who cares :)09:48
haggaimdz: kdebindings has been problematic - it build-deps on python, perl, java and ruby, and the last two are only in universe.  I've ripped those out for now but now we have less functionality..09:48
dholbachhaggai: can't you package those just for universe?09:49
haggaidholbach: yeah that's my worst-case option09:49
mdzthat would require splitting the source09:50
dholbachhaggai: or do you need them in main?09:50
dholbachah ok09:50
mdzhaggai: which Java does it use in universe?09:50
bluefoxicyKamion:  yeah, it wouldn't help third party vendor support, seeing as different distros will have different "x11-common" "xserver-xorg" vs "x-common" "x-server-xorg"  or "gnome-desktop" versus "gnome-desktop-environment" etc09:50
elmoCouldn't find ext2 superblock, trying backup blocks...09:50
elmofsck.ext3: Bad magic number in super-block while trying to open /dev/sdb309:50
haggaimdz: it needs javah, and to satisfy that it looks like I need gcj 409:50
elmoyet, I can boot in init=/bin/sh mode and the FS looks fine?09:50
bluefoxicyKamion:  that's really the only reason for standards anyway; to get all third parties on the same page09:50
Kamionbluefoxicy: that's why the LSB packaging format exists, and why we support it09:50
Kamionbluefoxicy: creating another standard because you don't like the existing standard seems particularly perverse in the case where there's currently only one plausible one :P09:51
jbaileymdz: Those two characters show up for  when you've got something displaying as latin-1 the character that's really encoded as utf-809:51
mdzjbailey: yes09:51
elmohmm.. because the kernel's booting of /dev/sd_a_3 ... fascinating09:51
zulelmo: huh?09:52
elmozul: /etc/fstab says /dev/sdb3, kernel says /dev/sda309:52
Kamionmdz: 'ps axewww' would find the locales that all processes think they're in09:52
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zulelmo: wieeeerd09:52
Kamionelmo: wrong yaboot.conf?09:52
elmokamion: give sdb3 doesn't have any ext2 superlblocks, I think right yaboot.conf :)09:52
mdzKamion: seems like a kubuntu-specific problem based on this discussion, so I'm no longer directly concerned about it09:53
Kamionelmo: 'k :)09:53
mdzhaggai: those deps are new in 3.4?09:53
mdzoh, no, kdebindings is in universe09:53
haggaimdz: yes its in universe and I want to try to get at least the perl/python bindings in main09:54
haggaiand javascript.  I've got those three all packaged seperately already09:54
mdzhaggai: we've managed to dodge ruby so far; I think vim is the only thing in main which wants it and doesn't get it09:55
mdzit wouldn't be the end of the world to start supporting it, but it seems silly to support a language platform just to build bindings for it09:55
haggaimdz: right, so I think the decision I made (pull ruby/java for now) was probably as good as I could09:56
mdzhaggai: no way to use gcj-3.3?09:56
haggaithere is no javah09:56
seb128mdz: about 2.10.1, tarball are due on 4th of april09:57
seb128mdz: I guess they will roll tarball 4-5th 09:57
mdzhaggai: classpath-tools  and kaffe have it, but they're not in main either09:57
haggaimdz: exactly09:57
seb128mdz: so probably 5th april in the afternoon UTC09:58
mdzseb128: the whole reason for the week between RC and final was to get 2.10.1...09:58
haggaimdz: I suppose if I'm going to the effort of splitting out ruby it isn't much more to move java too..09:58
mdzseb128: and 2.10.1 is coming out after RC?09:58
seb128mdz: 4th april tarball, 6th april 2.10.109:58
seb128mdz: that's the GNOME schedule according to jdub09:59
mdzthat completely undermines our release candidate10:00
mdzthere isn't any point in doing it without 2.10.110:00
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mdz"release candidate" = "we're not changing anything else unless we fucked up"10:01
seb128that's the same situation as for warty IIRC10:02
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mdzI know, that's why we CHANGED it for Hoary :-)10:02
noharhey jbailey 10:03
nohari said something wrong10:03
mjg59jbailey: Around?10:03
noharthe libpthread used is the one in i686/cmov10:03
mjg59jbailey: I think we need fan and thermal modules in initrd10:03
jbaileymjg59: Yup10:03
jbaileymjg59: Umm..  You're kidding right?10:03
mjg59jbailey: On resume from disk, we have the potential for heavy CPU load10:03
Kamionmjg59: er, I thought we shoved them in pre-warty10:04
mdzKamion: we did10:04
mjg59Kamion: Ah. Hang on, let me check this.10:04
Kamioninitrd-tools (0.1.70ubuntu4) warty; urgency=low10:04
Kamion  * Load thermal and fan support (Warty: #489)10:04
Kamion -- Thom May <thom@planetarytramp.net>  Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:58:37 +010010:04
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mjg59Do they get loaded before or after resume from disk is triggered?10:04
seb128mdz: 10:05
seb128mar 23 15:07:06 <seb128>        jdub: when is planned GNOME 2.10.1 ?10:05
seb128mar 23 15:08:01 <jdub>  seb128: april 4th/6th10:05
seb128mar 23 15:08:20 *       jdub pokes tongue out at seb. :-)10:05
seb128mar 23 15:08:40 <jdub>  i was wearing my gnome hat when i scheduled that ;)10:05
seb128mdz: I've my informations from here10:05
mdzmjg59: loadmodules is processed before swsusp resume, looks fine10:05
mjg59mdz: Hm. Right.10:05
mdzseb128: I believe you; I'm saying that it's a fuckup10:05
mjg59mdz: Oh, ugh, I think I might understand what the trouble is then10:06
seb128mdz: do we want to package 2.10.1 or not ?10:06
mdzseb128: not the day of release, no10:06
seb128mdz: we probably do from a QA point of view10:06
mdzI do not want to go through that again10:06
seb128there is a bunch of fix in the current CVS than we want for hoary10:06
Kamionfrom the QA point of view it's a trade-off surely10:06
seb128we have the option to backports them10:07
mjg59jbailey: Ok, I think we're hitting a potential issue when fan and thermal are loaded, and then we resume a kernel that has different ideas about thermal state10:07
seb128or to package 2.10.1 tarballs10:07
Kamionlast-minute fixes are a QA loss; not having those fixes is a QA loss10:07
mdzif they're in CVS, and we want them for Hoary, they need to go in now10:07
seb128tracking the CVS take time10:07
jbaileymjg59: Ah, so fans stop running that ought to be?10:07
seb128which could be used to fix bugs while waiting on 2.10.1 tarballs10:07
seb128what we did for warty10:07
mjg59jbailey: In this specific case, the machine resumes and shortly afterwards kacpid goes into a tight loop processing acpi events10:08
Kamionmdz: mm, "not changing anything else" => that was why I wanted to check with you about stuff like late installer translations ...10:08
mjg59I think because a thermal trip event has happened at some point in the intervening period10:08
Kamionthe other day10:08
=== mjg59 tries to work out the right way of doing this
mdzKamion: didn't we agree on the 28th as a deadline?10:08
mjg59Can we try loading fan and thermal /after/ resume from disk?10:08
mdzat least for non-langpack stuff10:08
seb128Kamion: speaking about translations for the installer, the template is correct now ?10:09
mdzmjg59: then don't we run into the problem that you first thought it was?10:09
jbaileymjg59: That doesn't make sense to me, though.  After resume from disk the modules should already be loaded, shouldn't they?10:09
jbaileymjg59: From the initial boot up.10:09
Kamion16:11 < Kamion> mdz: what's your opinion on the last date when I could upload installer translation changes for hoary?10:09
Kamion16:11 < Kamion> mdz: the Xhosa team are working to quite a tight deadline10:09
Kamion16:12 < Kamion> mdz: ok; I'll try to get as much in before that time as possible10:09
Kamion16:12 < Kamion> mdz: as far as I'm concerned any time up to two days before release is possible, but I wanted to check10:09
Kamion16:12 < mdz> Kamion: fine by me10:09
mjg59jbailey: The hardware state will be inconsistent with what the kernel thinks10:09
mjg59The thermal code will have fiddled with registers before the old kernel comes back10:10
Kamionseb128: not quite, rookery's mirror is out of date which makes it kind of hard to update it10:10
mdzKamion: I must have mis-parsed "release" as "release candidate"10:10
jbaileymjg59: So are you thinking onload the thermal driver on suspend, load it once in the initrd, load it again on resume?10:10
seb128Kamion: please ping me when that's fine10:10
mdzKamion: but even so, translations are a different story from new upstream code10:10
mjg59jbailey: Urgh, that sounds bad too.10:10
mdzwe've said that we'll update translations even after release10:10
mjg59I think this is probably a situation where we need to be *exactly* compatible with Windows10:10
mdzthough no particular plan to implement that has ever taken shape10:10
Kamionmdz: could you follow up to Adi about that? I think she's now under the impression that her deadline is looser, although I did try to impress on her the importance of getting them early10:10
jbaileymjg59: Do tell. =)10:10
Kamionmdz: of course that isn't possible for the installer10:11
Kamionseb128: yes, will do10:11
elmomdz: language-pack uploads to warty-updates?10:11
smurfixKamion: btw, I just fixed up some of the Xhosa bit in kbdchooser10:11
mjg59jbailey: Ok. ACPI has _WAK methods, which are called if you use the platform method to suspend the machine.10:11
elmoerr, hoary-updates10:11
mdzelmo: which nobody uses10:11
mdzwe don't even enable it by default10:11
Kamionseb128: I plan to mail ubuntu-devel and/or ubuntu-users and/or rosetta-users once I have a hopefully-final template10:11
mdzwe don't even put it in sources.list commented out10:11
mjg59In principle, they should resynchronise kernel/hardware state10:11
Kamionsmurfix: mm, what was broken with it?10:11
elmowhine whine whine10:11
elmocan we not fix that?10:11
smurfixTranslating "Atari keyboard" to "USB" didn't strike me as correct10:12
elmothat's why we do the horrible abuse of -security with the calendar10:12
seb128Kamion: cool10:12
elmosmurfix: hahaha10:12
Kamionmdz: beg pardon?10:12
Kamion## Uncomment the following two lines to fetch major bug fix updates produced10:12
Kamion## after the final release of the distribution.10:12
Kamion# deb http://$HOST$DIR $DIST-updates main$NONFREE10:12
Kamion# deb-src http://$HOST$DIR $DIST-updates main$NONFREE10:12
mdzoh, ok10:12
Kamionelmo: I would fix it if hoary-updates existed and worked :-P10:12
mdzKamion: do we enable those along with the other network repositories?10:12
mdzah, guess not hen10:12
elmokamion: eh?10:12
mjg59hoary-updates currently doesn't seem to exist10:12
Kamion$ HEAD http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary-updates/10:12
Kamion404 Not Found10:12
mjg59If you enable it, apt complains10:13
elmooh, boggle10:13
elmowell y'all suck for not telling me. lalala10:13
Kamionsmurfix: *grin*10:13
Kamionelmo: I'm sure I bitched about it pre-warty for warty-updates, assumed you'd got the message :P10:13
mjg59jbailey: Ok. So, we have fan and thermal loaded. They work. The machine is suspended. We reboot. Fan and thermal are loaded, and possibly fiddle with hardware state. We resume. _WAK methods are called, and in theory resynchronise the kernel and hardware state. Everything then works.10:14
mjg59Except that, uh, it doesn't.10:14
Kamionsmurfix: um, confused; there's no "Atari keyboard" msgid in kbd-chooser10:14
mdzI wonder if synaptic provides a proper description for hoary-updates10:14
mjg59On this hardware, at least.10:14
elmomdz: btw, when do we want breezy?  post-release?10:14
mdzelmo: breezy is next month's problem10:15
mdzI don't even want to hear the word breezy for 2 weeks10:15
elmowell.. I need to do something about ia64 and sparc10:15
mdznot even in high wind conditions10:15
elmowell, err ia64 anyway10:15
=== dholbach comforts mdz and hands him a cup of tea
elmoI mean presumably we don't want it left in hoary?10:15
mdzia64 is even less interesting than breezy for the next 2 weeks10:15
smurfixKamion: ../keyboard-atari.templates:310:15
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mdzelmo: if you want to move ia64 to a different directory, that's OK by me10:16
Kamionsmurfix: which appears to be missing from templates.pot, and so is not in xh.po10:16
Kamionsmurfix: I think you're seeing a fuzzy translation10:16
mdzvery fuzzy10:17
smurfixKamion: grumble10:17
Kamionplease don't tell me the templates.pot differs depending on what architecture you use to generate it10:17
elmomdz: well leaving it in hoary gives the wrong impression, don't you think?10:17
Kamionmdz: fuzzy translations are never displayed, so ...10:17
mdzelmo: so does putting it in breezy, frankly10:17
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mdzelmo: it wants to be on ia64.ubuntu.com10:18
elmooh.  ok.10:18
Kamionsmurfix: shall I fix? I have the full xh translation file here10:18
kokeMitario: there are .svn dirs in gnome cvs (update-manager) at help/C and help/C/figures10:18
Kamionsmurfix: kbd-chooser/debian/po/xh.po is just an automatic excerpt from it10:18
smurfixKamion: ah, that explains it10:18
mdzelmo: unless you want to merge sparc and ia64 into some pre-release-architectures.ubuntu.com10:18
elmomdz: yeah, might as well10:18
elmoI KNOW!10:18
elmohow about second-class-citzens.ubuntu.com???10:19
Mitariokoke, yeah i noticed10:19
Mitariokoke, still have to remove them :-)10:19
Kamion-#: debian/kbd-chooser.templates:410:21
Kamion+#: ../kbd-chooser.templates-in:410:21
KamionI don't want to know how that happened, I think10:21
Kamiongettext gives me enough of a headache as it is, cool though it is#10:21
smurfixKamion: ugh10:21
lamontmdz: can I pretty please upload a new dhcp3 client that requests interface-mtu as well as all the other stuff?10:23
Kamion1.09ubuntu12 uploaded10:23
mdzlamont: I remember fixing that like 2 years ago in Debian, wtf?10:23
lamontcurrent hoary does not request it10:23
lamontand it breaks my machines10:23
lamontI could just force it from the server side, but....10:24
lamontI'd have to find that10:24
mdzlamont: #7732810:24
lamontso I take it that's a yes, then?10:24
elmodo we have a dhcp-client that sends it's hostname yet?10:24
mdzelmo: hell no10:24
elmojeez, that use to annoy the CRAP out of me at my previous job10:24
mdzwe'll do that one as soon as we have a dhcp client that doesn't suck10:25
elmomdz: mozilla-thunderbird-locale-pl wants to sneak into main.  ok?10:25
mdzelmo: yes10:25
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dholbachhey mvo 10:26
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Kamionmdz: did that synaptic --set-selections thing get implemented or deferred?10:27
KamionI'm getting bored of my hoary installs downloading dozens of megabytes of crap10:27
mjg59jbailey: Ok, I've just triggered it into that state again10:29
mjg59It's, uh, unhappy now10:29
lamontmdz: so I'll upload the request then10:29
KamionFUCKING BAZ10:29
mjg59jbailey: I can reduce the problem to some extent just by renicing kacpid, but even so it's taking up all spare CPU time10:30
Kamionopens a billion concurrent sftp connections and runs my server out of open files10:30
Kamion'cos, uh, that's highly intelligent behaviour10:31
mjg59Bah, why can't I ptrace kernel threads?10:31
elmowho  ptrace's the ptracer?10:33
elmoit's 5.04 right?  not 5.4?10:34
mvodholbach: hey10:35
mvoKamion: synaptic --set-selections is implemented (you can feed it a list of selections via stdin)10:35
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Kamionmvo: oh, in the archive?10:36
mdzKamion: deferred10:36
Kamionmdz: aargh10:36
mdzKamion: synaptic --set-selections is not what you want10:36
mdzthough that does exist10:36
Kamionwhat do I want?10:36
mdzyou want a way to queue packages for later installation, no?10:36
mdzsynaptic --set-selections ~= apt-get dselect-upgrade10:37
Kamionuh, ok, odd when compared with dpkg --set-selections10:37
mvoups, sorry for causing confusion10:38
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Kamionmdz: so, I think the way the installer sits and downloads a batch of stuff for many languages is a fairly serious regression, particularly for large deployments10:39
Kamionmdz: if there's no other reasonable fix, I'd like to restore the "download packages from the internet?" question I removed10:39
mdzKamion: if you want to see it as a regression, then the fix is simply to turn of language-support installation for those languages10:40
mdzthat puts us back at Warty behaviour10:40
Kamionmeans we have to reopen a number of bugs though10:40
mdzelmo: yes, 5.04; though I personally prefer 5.410:40
mdzKamion: I thought you had a local mirror?10:41
Kamionlarge deployments> well actually more medium-sized ones, two simultaneous installs leave me unable to do much else with my ADSL ;)10:41
Kamionmdz: yeah, and the installer totally ignores it10:41
mdzah, right10:42
mdztell your local DNS server that gb.archive.ubuntu.com is your local mirror ;-)10:42
Kamionugh :)10:42
Kamionanyway I don't want to have to tell users to do that10:42
mdzI hate it too, but CDs are only so big10:42
Kamionand furthermore it's *.archive.ubuntu.com depending on the country I selected10:42
mdzif you feel it's a show-stopper, the only reasonable solution is to turn it off10:43
KamionI think asking about it would be reasonable10:43
mdz"do you want to download packages from the internet?" -> "do you want me to ignore your language preferences?"10:43
Kamionfor a number of languages, you'll still be able to do quite a lot of things with just the language pack10:45
Kamionfor example, all that language-support-xh gives you is the Xhosa Firefox locale10:45
Kamionso you can still use all of GNOME; it's basically just OOo and Firefox that suffer10:46
Kamionwhich is not good, but not totally ignoring either10:46
mdzrestoring the question seems to introduce more unknowns, but if we're going to do it, it has to be today10:46
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mdzdaniels: morning10:46
dholbachhi daniels10:47
danielsgood morning10:47
ograhi daniels10:47
Kamionhmm, I didn't realise that no language-support-* other than -en were on the CD10:47
Kamioncould we trade off some language-pack-* for more language-support-*?10:48
dholbachdaniels: i uploaded a fix to fdclock from siretart10:48
dholbachdaniels: just thought you should know :-)10:48
mdzKamion: language-support-foo are generally an order of magnitude larger than language-pack-foo10:48
mdzwe'd basically trade all our language-pack-* for one more language-support-*10:48
mdzKamion: can we ask the question only if the user's lanugage-support is not on the CD?10:50
danielsdholbach: ah cool, thanks; what was the fix?10:50
RiddellLWN review http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/lwn-ubuntu-kubuntu-review.html10:50
dholbachdaniels: some missing #include somewhere10:50
Kamionwell, I guess it should be "Do you want me to install language support?" or similar certainly10:50
Kamionmdz: I think so10:50
mdzRiddell: that is copyrighted content...10:50
dholbachdaniels: he dpatch-applied it, so you should easily find out10:50
mdzKamion: we don't have time to translate a new question, I don't think10:51
Kamionmdz: the old question was untranslated anyway10:51
mdzoh? hell10:51
mdzthat's +1 for not asking it10:51
Kamionvery little of our new installer stuff has been translated into more than like four languages10:51
KamionI hope to fix that a bit over the next week10:52
mjg59jbailey: Ok, it's looking like removing fan and thermal before suspend and inserting them on resume /may/ work10:52
Kamionsince I now actually have semi-decent infrastructure for doing that10:52
Kamionmuch better than was available for warty10:52
jbaileymjg59: So inserting once after the resume has finished, or twice, one to cope with disk/cpu activity and again with the kernel that's now in memoery10:52
mjg59Hrm. It might be ok to leave the initrd as is, to be honest10:53
mjg59lamont: Cool, isn't it?10:54
lamonthaven't even visited the site10:54
lamontjust heard about it10:54
danielsdholbach: ah10:54
bluefoxicyhey, check it out.10:55
mjg59jbailey: For now I'll stick those in the suspend/resume scripts and see if it's ok. I've only managed to trigger this on one piece of hardware, so it may just be more fragile10:55
bluefoxicybluefox@icebox:~$ :(){ :|:;};:10:55
bluefoxicybash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable10:55
Kamionbluefoxicy: set a sane ulimit10:55
bluefoxicyno kernel hacks.10:55
bluefoxicyKamion:  /etc/security/limits.conf right?  :)10:55
Kamionbluefoxicy: that would be one option, yes10:55
bluefoxicyit took me forever to figure that out, since everyone just says "ulimit"10:55
jbaileymjg59: Cool.10:56
Kamionbluefoxicy: well, ulimit *is* a shell builtin10:56
bluefoxicyKamion:  someone in ubuntu user channel is saying I should suggest that as a default setting and file a bug report, so I'll go do that now :)10:56
Kamionmdz: I could ask it in archive-copier, which knows about what packages are on the CD already; that would have the additional bonus that netboot installs wouldn't ask, and I can suppress it for server installs too10:59
mdzlamont: when was the most recent successful cloop build for amd64?11:00
mdzKamion: estimated time to implement+test?11:00
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Kamionmdz: can do it tonight11:02
mdzKamion: if you can get it in tonight, it's OK by me11:03
lamontmdz: in about 30 minuytes11:03
Kamionsince it won't show up for English, sabdfl would probably not notice ;)11:03
mdzlamont: most recent _completed_ successful cloop build11:03
mdzlamont: the gdm in the current cloop is 2 revs old, and doesn't have a fix I made for the live CD11:05
mdzwhich I made three days ago11:05
mdzyou are fucking kidding me11:05
mdzthe cloop builds have been failing for 6 days?11:05
lamontcan't reproduce the why, but livecd builds were disabled after 0318, renabled about an hour agop11:05
lamontnot failing11:05
mdzall arches?11:06
mdzor only amd64?11:06
mdzlooks like all11:06
mdzgdm             | | live_cloop       | i386 amd64 powerpc11:06
KamionArray CD 7 was 2005031711:06
elmoyou have a madison for live_cloop?11:07
elmothat's so sick11:07
Kamionthat day would've made sense, but the day after ...11:07
Kamionelmo: madison is your most successful meme ever, dude :)11:07
mdzelmo: I have an 'are we there yet' which gives me versions for pretty much everything little does11:07
elmoKamion: sadly credit goes to aj and neuro, but yeah, 'tis scary11:08
mdzwhat's on the install CD, what's on the live CD, what's inside the cloop, what's in little's archive11:08
elmothankfully it's one of the less obvious names11:08
Kamionelmo: oh, I thought you said once it was yours11:08
mdzlamont: ping me when all the builds are done and I will do new live CD builds11:09
mdzlamont: and if you hear a knock at your door later today, just open it and come quietly11:10
elmoyes, ping me too, I need to make jackass not be a half-out-of-the-rack-and-in-pieces disaster11:10
Kamion_Description: Install language support?11:10
Kamion The installation CD does not contain full support for your language. Do you11:10
Kamion want to download the required packages from the Internet?11:10
Kamionhow's that?11:10
mdzelmo: you do? what does jackass care about live CD builds?11:10
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mdzKamion: maybe s/: Install/: Download/ ?11:10
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sianishi all11:10
elmomdz: live cd sucks from jackass11:11
sianisi use ubuntu hoary on laptop11:11
sianisbut i have a little probleme11:11
lamontmdz: the livecd builds care about jackass11:11
lamontas do all the buildds11:12
sianiswhen ubuntu loadad fully, i cannot use the brigtness up/donw function keys on may keyboard11:12
mdzelmo: oh, since when?  I thought the archive came from mirnyy and the cloops directly from the buildds11:12
=== lamont is supposed to pick up his kids in a few minutes, 30 minutes away
sianisbut when ubuntu not load totally, i can use that11:12
mdzlamont: oh, so the build will _start_ in 30 minutes?11:12
sianiscan some1 help me?11:12
lamontmdz:cloop build sucks from jackass11:12
elmomdz: no it's started11:12
lamontmdz: no livecd rootfs is building11:12
lamonti386 is done11:12
lamontdoh.  elmo - royal is back to being mine, or no?11:13
elmomdz: and the cloop build sucks from jackass for mostly historical reasons (i.e. copied sources.list from a buildd chroot, which has to look at jackass)11:13
elmolamont: sure?11:13
sianiscan some1 helo me???????11:13
elmoall the powerpc buildds are11:13
ograsianis, #ubuntu please, this is a development channel11:13
sianisi try it there11:13
sianisbut on ubuntu webpage11:14
Kamionhow lame, busybox-cvs doesn't have join11:14
dholbachsianis: then please try ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com11:14
Kamionwill have to use less cool tools11:14
sianisthis channel is the chanel of the laptop-team11:14
mdzif there is a place on the Ubuntu website which says to ask support questions on #ubuntu-devel, please let me know so that it can be corrected11:14
ograKamion, no, implement join 11:14
elmokamion: probably because the author wasn't a memember of the twenty-strong "I've heard of join" l33t group11:14
Kamionogra: tempting but perhaps not tonight ;)11:14
elmoor a mememememember either11:14
lamontmdz: when you say all, do  you mean ubuntu or 'ubuntu and kubuntu'11:14
=== Kamion suspects mdz is in "kubuntu schmkubuntu" mode
mdzlamont: depends on whether 'no cloop builds for the past week' means 'ubuntu' or 'ubuntu and kubuntu'11:15
sianisdholbach, i try11:15
mdzlamont: for pinging me, ubuntu is sufficient11:15
dholbachsianis: cool11:15
mdzfor "holy shit we need cloop builds", ubuntu and kubuntu11:15
lamontmdz: was gonna let elmo jerk jackass as soon as ubuntu done, which would kill the kubuntu builds, which are serialized.  can start those once he has jackass back up11:16
lamontsound goodf?11:16
lamontelmo's tired, I expect...11:16
mdzlamont: fine, ping #kubuntu-devel when those are done11:16
Kamiongod, I wish you Americans wouldn't use the word "jerk" so freely, it produces horrible mental images11:16
mdzKamion: like 'jerk chicken'?11:16
schweeband "wanker" is much better? :p11:17
Kamionmdz: unless that's a euphemism (don't want to know), I don't think so11:17
mdzKamion: it's a food11:18
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Kamionanyway, I'm not helping the "please don't be off-topic here" cause, sorry11:18
truluxbluefoxicy: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=817011:19
truluxwe need to make the bugzilla sending security-related reports to ubuntu-hardened@lists.ubuntu.com11:19
truluxso, we can track such security related enhancements within the list11:19
bluefoxicyso reassign it?  :)11:19
truluxno kidding11:19
truluxI was thinking about it11:20
bluefoxicysend it to a list automatically, good point, like with gentoo's "SECURITY" checkbox that privatizes the security report to the hardened team11:20
truluxtoday I need to announce the selinux-support package11:20
truluxthat's it11:20
bluefoxicytrulux: <Rebroad> so.. which should I install? PaX, grsecurity, selinux, stackguard...?11:20
lamontmdz: must go fetch children - elmo's going to ping you when  ubuntu livecdfs's built11:21
truluxbluefoxicy: stackguard + openwall + retor music + the greatest 80 p0p hits11:21
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bluefoxicystack guard is so old . . . propolice is stackguard enhanced (based on the SG source even)11:21
truluxpropolice is stackguard on steriods11:22
bluefoxicyjapanese steroids11:22
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=== bluefoxicy wonders if Etoh and Yoda used the force on SG to make ProPolice
opig'day/night :)11:23
ograhey opi11:23
truluxbluefoxicy: http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/patches/gcc-4.0/11:23
truluxhey ogra 11:23
ograhi trulux 11:23
opihi ogra :)11:23
truluxbluefoxicy: just started it yesterday and almost finished today ;)11:24
truluxbluefoxicy: that's trulux on steroids11:24
bluefoxicytrulux:  so damn sweet.11:24
bluefoxicygcc 4.0 will rule.  I hope 5.11 goes full GCC4 w/SSP :)11:24
truluxbluefoxicy: still there are some bits remaining, but it's almost finished, now it's Etoh's job to take the damn shit and fix protector.c if needed11:25
truluxI hope too11:25
bluefoxicyaww crap :)11:25
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bluefoxicybroken shit, knew there was a catch :)11:25
truluxbluefoxicy: I will fix most of them, just I need to finish some writing and wiki related tasks11:26
truluxamong the selinux-support announcement and other things11:26
truluxtrulux on holidays, lately, is the same as saying trulux on steroids :)11:26
=== bluefoxicy should subscribe to ubuntu-hardened@ and lurk
bluefoxicyperhaps when I get home from class11:27
bluefoxicytrulux:  how are you going to handle X and Gnome when the new crap comes out, aside from trying to get Ubuntu to throw its weight at nVidia and see if they can do what Gentoo couldn't?11:28
bluefoxicyor rather, what the hardened gentoo team couldn't, seeing as the rest of Gentoo wanted to fight them half the time :/11:28
=== bluefoxicy pulls up some GLX hacks. . . http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/temp/seth/blog/xshots.html <-- New gnome in 4 or 5 months?
koke_showerelmo: what happened finally with my gpg key??11:29
koke_showerI had to go11:29
=== koke_shower is now known as koke
=== mirak [~mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-5-185.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
bluefoxicyspeaking of the new crap, I hope Ubuntu goes with a dynamic GTK theme when Cairo comes out :)11:30
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ograkoke, its a mako thing, not a elmo thing11:30
bluefoxicybut I have class, so I'm out.  I've generated enough line noise here for today.11:30
kokehmm, ok11:30
kokethen I haven't missed anything :)11:30
ogramako is still away....he has to send your signed CoC to elmo to add it to the list, then elmo compares it with your key you sent to keyring@ if i understood it right11:31
truluxbluefoxicy: I've been out for a week, and things around you wimps come fast (:D), so, what's happening to them?11:33
mdzamu: any new binaries in kde-i18n?11:33
bluefoxicytrulux: ?11:33
bluefoxicytrulux:  New shots of gnome show GLX hacks being used to make windows melt and wobble and crap as you move them, check the vids at the above link.  Also, dynamic GTK themes generate widgets based on algorithms, so every button is different  -->  http://ftp.gnome.org/mirror/temp/seth/blog-images/monkey-hoot/hand-drawn-window.png11:34
truluxbluefoxicy: oh, OK11:34
elmomdz: would you consider a timeout for the live CD "Press enter to continue" thing?  as a wishlist bug, I mean11:34
truluxnice indeed11:34
elmomdz: I almost left London with a non-remotely-manageable machine sat at one of those prompts :/11:34
bluefoxicytrulux:  yes but remember, anything using nvidia's GLX LibGL will get a quick PaX kill11:34
truluxbluefoxicy: where can I find further info. on it?11:35
elmoactually, it's remote powerable, so it's not disastrous, but meh11:35
mdzelmo: wouldn't you have the same problem anyway, with it booting from the CD?11:35
bluefoxicytrulux: no idea11:35
truluxbluefoxicy: any possibility of fixing that?11:35
haggaimdz: afaik there are new languages in kde-i18n11:35
mdzelmo: or did you take the CD out and just not power it off?11:36
elmomdz: I don't think any of the machines here auto-suck-back-in11:36
haggaimdz: so that will translate into new .debs11:36
bluefoxicytrulux:  fixing nvidia's closed source proprietary drivers?  Either get them to fix them (solar and tseng have tried I believe, for months), or bribe Ajax on #freedesktop #xorg to RE nvidia's drivers11:36
mdzelmo: really? wow, every i386 and amd64 system I have seen sucks in11:36
elmomdz: even with slimline cd drives?11:36
tsengbluefoxicy: uh, fix what?11:36
elmothe non-slimlines we have probably would auto-suck11:36
mdzelmo: oh11:36
tsengbluefoxicy: they added dlloader, but you are in the wrong channel11:36
elmobut I've never seen a slimline that does11:36
mdzthe ones without motors in them, probably not :-P11:36
elmomdz: :>11:37
bluefoxicytseng:  the dlloader drivers no longer generate runtime code?  :o11:37
tsengbluefoxicy: uh11:37
bluefoxicywhen the heck was this?11:37
haggaiimplement a sucking motor in software?  now there's a worthy bounty11:37
bluefoxicytseng:  well I've been +q in #gentoo-hardened for 2 weeks so. . . .11:37
tsengso.. stop being annoying there11:37
tsengand pasting all your buddies lame quotes11:38
truluxtseng: hah11:40
truluxtseng: that's what mad eme confused11:40
truluxtseng: last thing on it I remember was a "super" or something alike from solar11:41
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truluxfabbione: ping11:49
mdzdaniels: xorg status update?11:58

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