| === zul [~chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel | ||
| zul | heylo | 12:21 |
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| fabbione | morning | 06:14 |
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| === lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel | ||
| === zul [~chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-kernel | ||
| zul | hey | 03:09 |
| === hakGER [~hak@ip191.13.1411N-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-kernel | ||
| zul | fabbione: for #8189 have a look at http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-scsi&m=109638967308598&w=2 | 03:30 |
| zul | but it might break abi | 03:31 |
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| lamont | moo | 04:34 |
| lamont | fabbione: are you using baz mv for the abi files, or add /delete? | 04:36 |
| lamont | looks like baz mv, if I'm understanding the cryptic output from baz update | 04:38 |
| zul | fabbione: uh never mind its alrady applied | 06:04 |
| fabbione | hi guys | 06:15 |
| fabbione | baz mv :-) | 06:15 |
| zul | hey fabbione how is it going? | 06:15 |
| fabbione | it's going finr thanks and you? | 06:15 |
| zul | good...just enjoying a day off | 06:15 |
| fabbione | some bugs have bounced to kernel-team | 06:17 |
| zul | yeah noticed that | 06:18 |
| zul | so uh i take it we are going to be using 2.6.11 for breezy/bender | 06:21 |
| fabbione | nope | 06:23 |
| fabbione | i am planning 2.6.12 | 06:24 |
| zul | ok | 06:24 |
| fabbione | i don't think we should spend too much time on 2.6.11 for 2 reasons | 06:24 |
| fabbione | 2.6.12 is already at RC stage | 06:24 |
| fabbione | that means it will be out in final pretty soon | 06:24 |
| zul | and.... | 06:25 |
| fabbione | 2.6.11 has a lot of security holes phone... sec. | 06:25 |
| zul | k | 06:25 |
| fabbione | sorry i was saying.. | 06:25 |
| fabbione | 2.6.11 has a lot of security holes that are fixed in 2.6.12 and we have as patches for 2.6.10 | 06:26 |
| fabbione | that means a lot of extra work in portforwarding the patches | 06:26 |
| zul | sounds reasonable i was thinking about version numbering last night | 06:27 |
| fabbione | i started looking into the XEN patch | 06:27 |
| fabbione | and how to build the debs for it | 06:27 |
| fabbione | at least the kernel side | 06:27 |
| zul | i say let schweeb handle the user side | 06:28 |
| fabbione | yes | 06:28 |
| fabbione | userland is very simple | 06:28 |
| fabbione | i could package it in half day probablu | 06:28 |
| zul | for the kernel version stuff i was thinking something 2.6.12.abi.patchlevel | 06:28 |
| fabbione | our plan is to drop the patch level completely | 06:29 |
| fabbione | MEH | 06:29 |
| fabbione | the abi | 06:29 |
| zul | and use what? | 06:29 |
| fabbione | nothing. s/abi//g | 06:30 |
| fabbione | dilinger did a proposal on debian-kernel that sounds interesting | 06:30 |
| zul | ok...then how are you going to keep track if they are using for example different acpi snapshots | 06:30 |
| zul | ill have to see | 06:30 |
| fabbione | we still track the package version | 06:30 |
| fabbione | that cannot be removed | 06:30 |
| fabbione | but we can kill the ABI | 06:31 |
| zul | ok | 06:31 |
| fabbione | we need to see how complex would be to manage without | 06:31 |
| zul | do have a url for dilinger's proposal | 06:33 |
| fabbione | it should be somewhere here in channel logs | 06:34 |
| fabbione | from yesterday iirc | 06:34 |
| zul | k | 06:34 |
| zul | heh i wont be lazy and ill find it myself ;) | 06:34 |
| zul | so you would have a base kernel-image and you would have the user compile the modules themselves ? | 06:37 |
| zul | with module-assitant? | 06:38 |
| fabbione | something like that, but using a new standard hook where to store the sources of the external modules | 06:38 |
| fabbione | so that they can be compiled at postinst time | 06:38 |
| fabbione | given that there is an ABI change | 06:38 |
| zul | so what if they have a slow ass system? | 06:39 |
| fabbione | nasty, eh? | 06:39 |
| zul | yeah reminds me of gentoo kind of | 06:39 |
| fabbione | well in all cases if they use thirdy part modules they will have to recompile them anyway | 06:39 |
| fabbione | we can still do in such a way to ensure that the modules we provide are always in sync | 06:39 |
| zul | true but what if the kernel-headers are mixed up, for example if someone who thinks they are know what they are doing but they dont messes up and files a bug report | 06:40 |
| crimsun | hmm. How about always triggering a recompile of l-r-m whenever a new linux-source is uploaded? True, more space, but more transparent to the end-user | 06:41 |
| crimsun | or is that precisely what we're trying to avoid? | 06:41 |
| fabbione | zul: i am not sure i understand... | 06:41 |
| fabbione | crimsun: we are avoiding 2 things here: | 06:41 |
| fabbione | 1) random recompilation of l-r-m and thirdy part modules | 06:42 |
| fabbione | 2) having to deal with ABI changes, since they are embedded in the package name | 06:42 |
| fabbione | both of them are not easy | 06:42 |
| zul | well lets say they have a vanilla kernel-headers installed and they have our kernel-headers installed and something messes up | 06:42 |
| fabbione | zul: our kernel headers lands alwys in a predictable place. | 06:43 |
| fabbione | if they fuck up the system is kinda of not our problem | 06:43 |
| zul | ok...but what if the user puts it in the same place... | 06:43 |
| fabbione | plus we can add sanity checks before performing operations | 06:43 |
| zul | im just trying to play devio advocate here | 06:43 |
| zul | true.. | 06:43 |
| fabbione | zul: sure.. i appreciate that :-) | 06:43 |
| fabbione | that's why we need really brainstorm a lot face2face | 06:44 |
| zul | no gentoo here ;) | 06:44 |
| fabbione | it's really difficult to evaluate all the corner cases on IRC | 06:44 |
| zul | yeah too bad i wont be at udu :) | 06:44 |
| fabbione | we can also make it an option | 06:44 |
| crimsun | fabbione: ok, I see regarding (1). So that means we avoid automatically triggering a rebuild on the buildds whenever a new l-s is uploaded? | 06:44 |
| === svenl_ [~luther@AStrasbourg-251-1-52-128.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-kernel | ||
| fabbione | crimsun: there are a lot of implication in hiding an ABI change. l-r-m is really the last of our problems | 06:45 |
| fabbione | since we have control of it | 06:45 |
| crimsun | fabbione: right, gotcha | 06:45 |
| fabbione | our problem is to find an efficent way to detect external modules (out of Ubuntu), and do in such a way that if there is an ABI change, print a big fat warning to the user in the first place | 06:46 |
| fabbione | and provide an automatic system to manage recompilation of these modules on request | 06:46 |
| fabbione | of course there would be the nice config file with: do_everything_for_me=[yes|no|ask] | 06:47 |
| zul | well why not have a list of base modules that we support like ipw2200, hostap, and then inform the users that they abi has changed we are going to break shit now | 06:47 |
| zul | er...list of 3rd party modules | 06:47 |
| fabbione | zul: i am not talking about 3dy part modules in our tree. | 06:48 |
| fabbione | for example i compile the quickcam module myself | 06:48 |
| zul | duh..oops | 06:48 |
| fabbione | that is not part of either linux-source or l-r-m | 06:48 |
| fabbione | how can i make it so that if i change the ABI i can tell the user: hey dude.. this module you compiled yourself will not load.... | 06:48 |
| fabbione | and so on... | 06:48 |
| fabbione | + | 06:48 |
| fabbione | hey dude: if you put the source in this dir | 06:49 |
| fabbione | it will be recompiled automatically for you | 06:49 |
| zul | sounds reasonable | 06:49 |
| fabbione | we can't use a Xen kernel as our default kernel... yet | 07:06 |
| fabbione | so that means that we to create 386-xen, 686-xen, k7-xen | 07:06 |
| fabbione | SMP is not supported in 2.6.10 | 07:06 |
| fabbione | but it might in 2.6.11.. not sure yet | 07:06 |
| zul | in linux-sources? cool | 07:06 |
| fabbione | well, that's the idea | 07:07 |
| fabbione | so that would add 6 more linux-images on i386 | 07:07 |
| fabbione | that will differ of one option | 07:07 |
| fabbione | + we lose ACPI and CPUFREQ | 07:07 |
| fabbione | still not supported by xen | 07:08 |
| fabbione | ah and >4GB mem support.. but i don't know that many people using that much anyway | 07:08 |
| fabbione | may i add a royal mess to build the package? ;) | 07:09 |
| fabbione | since ARCH=xen :-) | 07:09 |
| fabbione | that might attempt to create _xen.deb | 07:09 |
| zul | ++ | 07:09 |
| zul | i think im going to go watch the incredibles ill be back later | 07:11 |
| fabbione | have fun | 07:12 |
| zul | i will | 07:12 |
| fabbione | it's a nice movie | 07:12 |
| fabbione | :-) | 07:12 |
| zul | especillay the extras for the dvd | 07:12 |
| fabbione | heheh | 07:20 |
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| zul | that was a good movie | 11:18 |
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