[12:05] <low> hi there
[12:05] <zul> high low
[12:05] <low> :)
[12:05] <zul> hah
[12:06] <low> there's a little bug in lilo.conf when you use xfs (hoary-preview, amd64)
[12:07] <low> kernel is /vmlinuz instead of /boot/vmlinuz
[12:07] <schweeb> links should be made to vmlinuz in /
[12:08] <schweeb> (they are on my system)
[12:08] <low> at least lilo complains and returns with an error code during install, doing it by hand makes it complaining too, until i put in /target/etc/lilo.conf /boot/vmlinuz
[12:09] <low> hmmm how to use install cd as rescue so i can solve last problems with lilo without reinstalling ?
[12:10] <schweeb> you can also manually install grub to the mbr... the scripts won't work, but you can use the grub shell to embed it yourself
[12:10] <low> schweeb: grub does work on amd64 ?
[12:10] <schweeb> I dunno, I would assume so
[12:11] <low> schweeb: i'm coming for a source distro and i'm working a bit on amd64, and we were unable to make it work
[12:12] <schweeb> yes, it works on amd64
[12:12] <low> great :)
[12:13] <low> i'll have to check how you did it
[12:14] <schweeb> google for "grub embed"
[12:14] <schweeb> I think it's in the manual as well
[12:16] <low> hmmm looks like lilo borked my first sector of / (xfs)
[12:17] <ogra> low, why did you use lilo ?
[12:17] <ogra> (i am on amd64 ... with the default, which is grub)
[12:17] <low> ogra: errr it was what it proposed to me
[12:18] <Kamion> ogra: grub can't handle all situations; the installer switches to lilo sometimes
[12:18] <ogra> thats why i put your name in front of the sentence, yes :)
[12:18] <Kamion> ogra: xfs is one of those cases
[12:18] <ogra> Kamion, oh, didnt know that
[12:18] <ogra> Kamion, it wasnt the case on warty ....
[12:18] <Kamion> low: if you're using the hoary install CD, type 'rescue' at the boot prompt
[12:19] <Kamion> ogra: yes, warty just broke with XFS :P
[12:19] <low> Kamion: thx.
[12:19] <Kamion> (randomly, for some people, not everyone)
[12:19] <ogra> Kamion, nope, worked fine for me
[12:19] <ogra> heh
[12:19] <Kamion> ogra: it's a race condition
[12:19] <Kamion> thus "works for me" isn't enough, sadly
[12:19] <lamont__r> Kamion: any new daily builds since this am?
[12:19] <low> Kamion: i've already run grub with xfs as / without problem
[12:19] <ogra> Kamion, i know, i saw the redhat fix of running grub twice :)
[12:20] <Kamion> low: for some people, it's fine. for others, it breaks.
[12:20] <low> Kamion: damn :( maybe sis+sata is the cursed couple ;)
[12:21] <Kamion> *shrug* I have a cheapo laptop where it fails
[12:22] <low> well, anyway, i'm off to bed, need to wake up in 5 hours
[12:22] <low> thx for tips and help
[12:22] <low> see ya
[12:23] <lamont__r> % acpi
[12:23] <lamont__r> %
[12:23] <lamont__r> hrm... something's fishy....
[12:23] <lamont__r> mjg59: you around?
[12:33] <schweeb> Kamion: I've found using the grub shell and manually installing grub gets it to work... grub-install almost always fails
[12:33] <schweeb> (w/ XFS>
[12:33] <schweeb> s/>/)/
[12:34] <schweeb> although that's more work than most people should have to do...
[12:39] <zul> why dont you create a small boot partiion with someting like ext3 and then the rest xfs?
[12:40] <ogra> zul, he is gone already
[12:41] <zul> heh im so on holiday today ;)
[12:42] <lamont__r> seb128: you around?
[12:49] <mjg59> lamont-away: ?
[12:49] <kain> hmm.. ubuntu-artwork 0.2.20-2 on hoary doesn't fix the human icon issue
[12:49] <schweeb> mjg59: he just left for home
[12:49] <mjg59> Ah
[12:51] <zul> mjg59: hell be back soon
[01:02] <lamont> mjg59: wondering why acpi isn't happy on my vaio....  what does pcc_acpi do, and should it be loaded as well as sony_acpi?
[01:03] <lamont> hrm.. was it something I said? :-)
[01:15] <zul> yes...yes it was
[01:15] <trulux|working> hey zul 
[01:15] <zul> hey Treenaks 
[01:15] <zul> er..trulux
[01:16] <zul> how is it going?
[01:17] <lamont> evening zul
[01:17] <zul> evening lamont how goes the battle?
[01:17] <lamont> rather relaxing day
[01:17] <zul> same here
[01:17] <ogra> is it a public holiday in the us too ?
[01:18] <lamont> sigh
[01:18] <zul> canada as well
[01:21] <lamont> ogra: not entirely 100% sure, but I've been making it a slow day
[01:21] <ogra> ah, yeah
[01:21] <lamont> like fetching isos, and such
[01:21] <lamont> speaking of which, time to burn some
[01:21] <tritium> not a public holiday, but many people take off for Good Friday
[01:22] <tritium> zyga, what have you heard about powerbook g5?
[01:26] <tritium> ogra, here's more goodness: Mar 25 13:21:34 localhost kernel: EXT3-fs warning (device hda1): ext3_unlink: Deleting nonexistent file (1130787), 0
[01:28] <adobbie> no school today :)
[01:28] <zul> i feel old now
[01:28] <tseng> mako: ping
[01:28] <adobbie> zul: grey haired?
[01:29] <zul> adobbie: a bit
[01:30] <adobbie> zul: ok, you probably are old then :)
[01:30] <ogra> zul, you shouldnt say that while lamont and me are here ;)
[01:30] <zul> adobbie, only 29
[01:30] <mako> tseng: hey ddue
[01:30] <ogra> heh, young guy
[01:31] <tseng> mako: manoj signed my key!
[01:31] <mako> tseng: killer! 
[01:31] <tseng> mako: do i need to resend you my coc, or you still have it
[01:31] <ogra> finally
[01:31] <adobbie> zul: that makes you 7 years old than I am
[01:31] <zul> bleah
[01:31] <ogra> and six younger then me :)
[01:32] <zul> ogra: old foggie
[01:32] <ogra> yeah, my beard is already graying out
[01:32] <mako> ogra: dude.. unix beard time
[01:33] <mako> i can't wait to pull off a unix beard
[01:33] <ogra> hehe, you mean like maddog ?
[01:33] <mako> totally
[01:33] <mako> even rms now is greying out
[01:33] <mako> maddog has a real unix beard
[01:33] <ogra> ah, i think i'll wait 10 years for that
[01:33] <ogra> yeah
[01:33] <mako> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Unix+beard
[01:34] <zul> heh i have a beard it just needs to be grey
[01:34] <adobbie> I shaved this morning :)
[01:34] <mdz> mako: I have not heard that term in general circulation, but it should be
[01:34] <mako> mdz: dude, several years ago at LCA, there was a unix beard BOF (!!)
[01:35] <tseng> mako: coc?
[01:35] <mako> mdz: to discuss beard care, etc, i guess
[01:36] <mako> once, three people with unix beards told me that i "didn't really have a beard"
[01:36] <ogra> mako, ever had a beard ?
[01:37] <mako> ogra: dude! i have a beard
[01:37] <mako> ogra: you met me!
[01:37] <ogra> mako, ah, come on, i mean a beard with some more expertise ;)
[01:37] <ogra> mako, its itching like hell....
[01:38] <mako> mdz: there must be some serious unix beards at nanog
[01:39] <lamont> mako: and that's just the women. :-)
[01:40] <lamont> hrm.. forget I said that.
[01:40] <zul> you know that cheers episode where they have that beard competition?
[01:43] <mdz> mako: there are _seas_ of them
[01:44] <Kamion> mdz: please merge colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/casper--translations--0 again, up to patch-6
[01:52] <mdz> Kamion: done, uploaded
[02:00] <Kamion> Not sure how I ended up in the kind of position Christian Perrier fills in Debian ;)
[02:09] <Keybuk> Kamion: maybe we should recruit him
[02:09] <kain> any news on fixing ubuntu-artwork in hoary? I really like human icons but they're broken
[02:10] <tseng> they work for me.. are you tracking this on bugzilla?
[02:11] <kain> no, not yet, since I saw the new package, but it doesn't fix the problem
[02:11] <kain> ogra also confirmed this problem
[02:11] <ogra> tseng, are you up to date ? and did restart nautilus since he update ?
[02:11] <ogra> the even
[02:11] <tseng> i killed nautilus
[02:11] <tseng> it still works.
[02:11] <jdub> kain: what's broken?
[02:12] <ogra> jdub, there is only the default icon
[02:12] <kain> jdub, ubuntu human icon theme, there's something missing in package
[02:12] <ogra> morning btw
[02:12] <Kamion> Keybuk: he's certainly a competent installer / localisation guy
[02:12] <lamont> hrm.. current world likes my vaio.  acpi happiness.
[02:12] <ogra> jdub, mime types that is
[02:12] <jdub> ah, i must've broken failover
[02:13] <jdub> s/failover/fallback/
[02:13] <kain> also,as said, I remember four directories under /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable
[02:13] <kain> now they're three
[02:13] <jdub> yeah, not really related
[02:13] <kain> ok
[02:13] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, he does l10n for dpkg and apt as well
[02:14] <lamont> dhcp client
[02:14] <lamont> where is that?
[02:15] <Kamion> lamont: dhcp-client-udeb
[02:15] <lamont> dhcp2???
[02:15] <Kamion> dhcp3 so didn't even remotely start to fit
[02:15] <lamont> ah, yes.
[02:15] <lamont> well.
[02:17] <lamont>         # install the udeb binary (no need to install dhclient-script
[02:17] <lamont>         # since it is provided by another udeb package. See #249373)
[02:17] <lamont> hrm.
[02:18] <Kamion> netcfg has its own dhclient-script
[02:18] <lamont> yeah
[02:19] <Kamion> note I have a pending netcfg upload
[02:19] <lamont> might be that the fix actually goes in dhcp-client-udeb...
[02:20] <lamont> netcfg doesn't deliver dhclient.conf, yes?
[02:20] <Kamion> lamont: it writes it itself
[02:20] <Kamion> at run-time
[02:21] <lamont> ah.
[02:21] <Kamion>             fprintf(dc, "send host-name \"%s\";\n", dhostname);
[02:21] <lamont> can you add 'request interface-mtu' in there somewhere?
[02:21] <lamont> that is, add ",interface-mtu" to the request line?
[02:22] <Kamion> definitely in "please send a patch" territory here :)
[02:22] <Kamion> I don't feel confident munging that myself
[02:22] <lamont> source name for netcfg?
[02:22] <Kamion> netcfg
[02:22] <lamont> oh. sure. who would think of that???
[02:22] <lamont> :-)
[02:22] <Kamion> testing it's a pig, though
[02:22] <lamont> is that in the ramdisk?
[02:22] <lamont> initrd
[02:22] <Kamion> transferring an updated binary over on a USB stick is one option
[02:23] <Kamion> lamont: it's in the netboot initrd, not the cdrom initrd
[02:23] <Kamion> so you could bung a .deb on a CD
[02:24] <lamont> kewlness.
[02:24] <Kamion> can you rebuild him, though?
[02:25] <lamont>             fprintf(dc, "send host-name \"%s\";\n", dhostname);
[02:25] <lamont>             fprintf(dc, "request subnet-mask, broadcast-address, time-offset, routers,\n");
[02:25] <lamont>             fprintf(dc, "       domain-name, domain-name-servers, host-name, interface-mtu;\n")
[02:25] <lamont> I _think_ that's the defaults + mtu...
[02:26] <lamont> does d-i care at all about time-offset?
[02:27] <lamont> you have plans to test a new netcfg?
[02:27] <lamont> and an in-house dhcp server?
[02:28] <Kamion> well, so far mine's just YA translation upload, but sure, can do
[02:28] <Kamion> and yes, have DHCP server
[02:28] <Kamion> time-offset> no idea
[02:28] <lamont> dhcp3 or something else?
[02:28] <Kamion> whatever woody has, I guess
[02:29] <Kamion> ii  dhcp           2.0pl5-11woody DHCP server for automatic IP address assignm
[02:29] <Kamion> won't you need to do something with interface-mtu, too?
[02:29] <Kamion> and I guess s/       /\t/ for neatness :)
[02:30] <lamont> uh, yes. But I think mtu was in dhclient-script in the system
[02:30] <Kamion> oh yes
[02:31] <lamont> $new_interface_mtu
[02:31] <lamont> so it may just work
[02:32] <lamont> in the subnet declaration in question, add 'option interface-mtu 1496;'
[02:32] <lamont> then verify that the network is configured as such
[02:33] <lamont> meanwhile, I'll root around in the server code some more and see if I can find the 'always send this option' option
[02:33] <Kamion> is 1496 generally safe? other people are using this network
[02:34] <lamont> well, it should really match across the entire network...
[02:34] <kain> default here is 1492
[02:34] <lamont> so you may want to create a bootp entry for the MAC in question
[02:34] <kain> If i remember correctly
[02:35] <Kamion> this is kind of not what I want to be doing at 1:30am :)
[02:35] <lamont> Kamion: so if your lease time is long enough, and no one asks during the test...  
[02:35] <lamont> change it back to 1500 and all is magically suddenly good.
[02:35] <adobbie> I use 1492 for my MTU
[02:35] <lamont> and you only lockup when you try to send a large packet from the 1500-machine to the 1496 machine.
[02:36] <Kamion> I could set 1500 and set -x / otherwise trace the dhclient-script
[02:36] <lamont> Kamion: how soon you plan on netcfg upload?
[02:36] <lamont> Kamion: that'd work
[02:36] <Kamion> lamont: have a few others to do first and some base-config stuff to test
[02:36] <Kamion> lamont: so no vast hurry
[02:37] <Kamion> ok, will give it a go in a bit
[02:37] <lamont> Kamion: btw, ia64 server install fails trying to install elilo on the disk...  you remember what the fix was for that?
[02:38] <Kamion> lamont: all the fixes I remember, I've applied ...
[02:39] <Kamion> /var/log/syslog and/or /var/log/messages ought to be enlightening
[02:41] <jdub> i can't do big uploads through my firewall
[02:41] <jdub> big being, like 4M (ubuntu-artwork)
[02:41] <jdub> luckily there are lots of APs around ;)
[02:41] <lamont> elilo: unrecognized option /dev/sda2 :-(
[02:46] <dilinger> i'll never be a unix expert, i can't deal w/ the beard :/
[02:46] <Kamion> lamont: erm - any idea where that might be coming from?
[02:47] <Kamion> chroot /target /usr/sbin/elilo --autoconf --boot $bootpart \
[02:47] <Kamion>       --root $rootfs --efiboot
[02:47] <Kamion> oh, gar
[02:47] <Kamion> I bet I know
[02:49] <Kamion> lamont: could you stick 'set -x' near the top of /var/lib/dpkg/info/elilo-installer.postinst?
[02:49] <Kamion> lamont: and make sure you only have one EFI partition (which I'm betting is your current state)
[02:49] <lamont> uh, when I get back there...
[02:49] <lamont> yep.  fdisk print just showed 1 partition
[02:50] <Kamion> lamont: elmo complained about being asked a question with only one choice, so I lowered the priority in that case; only I suspect now that cdebconf doesn't set a sane default if that happens
[02:50] <lamont> lol
[02:51] <lamont> there are 2 drives on the machine, not sure what drive 2 looks like
[02:51] <lamont> sda2 is the rootfs
[02:51] <lamont> 1 = efi, 2=ext3, 3=swap
[02:53] <lamont> elilo-installer instrumented, base install proceeding (again)(
[02:55] <Kamion> patch written in the event it goes how I expect
[02:56] <Kamion> namely, if you see 'bootpart=' in there
[02:56] <Kamion> with no value
[02:57] <lamont> cool.. I want to get my new mirror machine into production, you see...
[02:58] <lamont> hrm.. it picked itanium-smp to install... that could be bad, can't remember
[02:58] <Kamion> IIRC we talked about that and agreed
[02:58] <lamont> ok
[02:58] <Kamion> but hmm
[02:59] <Kamion> that is actually kind of odd
[02:59] <Kamion> /var/log/syslog and /proc/cpuinfo would be useful to me
[02:59] <lamont> machine is 2-way mckinley
[02:59] <Kamion> then indeed I think it should have picked linux-mckinley-smp
[02:59] <lamont> is there an ssh-client and/or netcat on the install disk?
[02:59] <Kamion> openssh-client-udeb
[03:00] <Kamion> nc is in busybox
[03:00] <lamont> nc works
[03:01] <Kamion> lamont: what, in a server install?
[03:01] <lamont> yeagh
[03:02] <Kamion> is b0rken then
[03:02] <lamont> this AM's ia64 install, fwiw
[03:02] <Kamion> lamont: oh. er. so how exactly are you doing this server install?
[03:03] <lamont> vendor : GenuineIntel / arch : IA-64 / family : Itanium 2
[03:03] <Kamion> 'cos elilo.conf kind of, er, doesn't have an entry for server
[03:03] <lamont> at boot, adding 'server', otherwise picking the vga non-expert mode
[03:03] <Kamion> lamont: that does precisely nothing ;)
[03:03] <lamont> feh\
[03:03] <lamont> what must one do?
[03:04] <Kamion> are there some of these elilo.conf entries that I could sensibly trim?
[03:04] <Kamion> one must boot with preseed/file=/cdrom/preseed/server.seed as kernel argument
[03:04] <lamont> vga, serial clearly need to be there.  expert mode makes sense for both as well.
[03:04] <lamont> ok
[03:04] <Kamion> so I just have to double up all the entries?
[03:05] <Kamion> I'm ambivalent about expert mode
[03:05] <lamont> well, you could drop server-expert... :-)
[03:05] <Kamion> people overuse it; I almost think we could drop it and tell people to boot with DEBCONF_PRIORITY=low if they care
[03:06] <mdz> Kamion: I agree completely
[03:06] <Kamion> I'm too cowardly to do that for !ia64 at this point, but I think I'll do it for ia64
[03:06] <Kamion> hey, language-support-* is installable on ia64 now, so I can remove that hack ...
[03:08] <Kamion> lamont: what do the 'processor' lines in /proc/cpuinfo look like?
[03:10] <lamont> Kamion: http://ia.mmjgroup.com/~lamont/ia64/cpuinfo
[03:10] <lamont> Mar 25 19:02:46 main-menu[5770] : (process:28216): bootpart=
[03:10] <Kamion> lamont: bingo; willfix
[03:11] <lamont> should be /dev/sda1 for me>
[03:11] <lamont> ?
[03:11] <Kamion> I guess, whatever your EFI partition is anyway
[03:12] <lamont> cute part is that after the failure, it prompts you to answer the question... :-)
[03:12] <Kamion> lamont: yeah, your priority will get dropped - and then it should work
[03:14] <lamont> well, not 100% sure -- I edited the script and hardcoded /dev/sda1 :0-
[03:14] <Kamion> hah
[03:14] <Kamion> lamont: /var/log/syslog should have some wittering from base-installer about what it was thinking when selecting the kernel
[03:15] <lamont> ROTFL
[03:15] <lamont> Mar 25 18:55:05 base-installer: info: Found kernels 'linux-itanium-smp,linux-mckinley-smp,linux-image-itanium-smp,linux-image-mckinley-smp,linux-image-2.6.10-5-mckinley-smp,linux-image-2.6.10-5-itanium-smp'
[03:15] <lamont> Mar 25 18:55:05 base-installer: info: arch_kernel: linux-mckinley (absent)
[03:15] <lamont> Mar 25 18:55:05 base-installer: info: Using kernel 'linux-itanium-smp'
[03:15] <lamont> btw, syslog in the same directory
[03:16] <Kamion> oh, your cpuinfo is only reporting one processor
[03:16] <Kamion> what's the Right Way to find out the number of processors?
[03:16] <lamont> hrm... maybe I am UP...
[03:17] <lamont> checking
[03:17] <Kamion> it should be running an SMP kernel, even
[03:18] <lamont> gonna have to pester the nice men
[03:20] <Kamion> lamont: elilo-installer fix uploading
[03:21] <lamont> and yeah, mckinley-UP should pick mckinley-SMP (since no UP on CD)
[03:23] <Kamion> lamont: ok. I can only think of one way to fix that without rather more serious upstream churn in base-installer, and it's a grievous hack
[03:23] <Kamion> basically
[03:23] <Kamion> -         chroot /target apt-cache search ^linux- | grep '^linux-\(amd64\|386\|686\|k7\|power\|itanium\|mckinley\|sparc\|hppa\)';
[03:23] <Kamion> +         chroot /target apt-cache search ^linux- | grep '^linux-mckinley';
[03:23] <lamont> oh, that's vile.
[03:23] <Kamion> +         chroot /target apt-cache search ^linux- | grep '^linux-\(amd64\|386\|686\|k7\|power\|itanium\|sparc\|hppa\)';
[03:24] <Kamion> or something along those lines
[03:24] <lamont> is that to get the order correct/
[03:24] <Kamion> I think that makes me just too ill though
[03:24] <lamont> ?
[03:24] <lamont> yeah -not worth doing
[03:24] <lamont> since really, you're going to want to load a tuned kernel next anyway, ...
[03:24] <Kamion> lamont: it's more because it's damned hard to detect which ones are the metapackages
[03:24] <lamont> the other solution would be to include a linux-mckinley (not smp) kernel
[03:24] <Kamion> without just hardcoding a stupid list like the above
[03:25] <Kamion> that'd suck a lot of CD space
[03:25] <lamont> Kamion: not true.  anything with a size less than 2MB is a meta package. :-)
[03:25] <Kamion> haha
[03:25] <lamont> well.... 'tis truth, it is... :-)
[03:26] <Kamion> you know, that's actually the least bad option I've heard, horrible though it is
[03:26] <Kamion> but I think it should be in the "dirty hacks and how we can purge them" BOF at UDU
[03:27] <lamont> yes
[03:28] <lamont> I prefer to think of it as an elegant solution, not a gross hack. :-()
[03:29] <aj> why don't you just tag the metapackages in the Packages file?
[03:29] <lamont> aj: was just going to suggest adding something to the packages file..
[03:29] <lamont> Task: linux-meta
[03:29] <Kamion> I think we thought about that, but apt-cache search wouldn't show them up, and we don't have many cleverer tools at that point
[03:29] <aj> i mean, apt-ftparchive does extraoverrides these days
[03:29] <lamont> or even kernel-meta
[03:29] <aj> you could have "Meta: yes" easily enough
[03:30] <Kamion> also we only seem to remember to look at this issue ten days or so before release ;) it was the same last time round, it was a last-minute thing ...
[03:30] <aj> Kamion: eh?
[03:30] <Kamion> aj: can you search on random headers with apt-cache?
[03:31] <lamont> Kamion: yep. question works, even without modifying the script. ;-)
[03:31] <Kamion> lamont: with new elilo-installer? that was quick
[03:31] <lamont> no
[03:32] <lamont> old elilo-installer, hit return a couple times after the failure
[03:32] <lamont> (prompted, and then it works0
[03:32] <lamont> Kamion: you know, given the state of ia64/desktop, and the direction everyone is going with ia64, you could just make server the default... :)
[03:32] <Kamion> hm, I suppose I could use apt-cache search --full and then clever, er, something
[03:33] <Kamion> lamont: it is tempting
[03:33] <lamont> Kamion: I bet mdz would be OK with it. :-)
[03:33] <aj> Kamion: pipe --full through grep-dctrl?
[03:34] <Kamion> aj: don't have it there; we've only just installed the base system
[03:34] <aj> Kamion: what're you trying to do?
[03:34] <Kamion> aj: this is base-installer's logic to select the right kernel to install
[03:34] <aj> Kamion: well, awk'll suffice anyway
[03:34] <Kamion> no awk
[03:35] <Kamion> oh, I do
[03:35] <Kamion> I could chroot
[03:35] <aj> i thought you installed the base system?
[03:35] <Kamion> yeah, was in automatic "no awk in busybox" mode
[03:35] <aj> oh, hrm
[03:35] <aj> i was going to add something fairly similar to debootstrap's little C helper
[03:35] <Kamion> have chroot /target perl, even
[03:36] <Kamion> C is OK, just typically more effort and larger; but base-installer already has a bit of C code in it to interact with debootstrap
[03:36] <Kamion> and b-i doesn't really have to be ultra-small
[03:37] <aj> well, it was more going to be "pkgdetails list Base: yes /target/var/lib/apt/lists/debootstrap_Packages" or so
[03:37] <Kamion> archive-copier has something very similar
[03:38] <aj> but that's waiting on some apt-ftparchive changes i haven't gotten around to cleaning up for mdz yet
[03:38] <Kamion> Ubuntu CDs have Task: ubuntu-base now, if that'd be helpful for testing debootstrap stuff
[03:39] <Kamion> although it probably includes kernel packages and bootloaders and such that aren't appropriate in debootstrap, so blah
[03:39] <aj> nah, the apt-ftparchive stuff just needs to be the per-arch-extraoverrides
[03:39] <aj> then it's just moving debootstrap's idea of base into the packages file
[03:39] <aj> not much testing required
[03:39] <Kamion> hah, yeah, half the reason I have Task: ubuntu-base on the CD is that I needed to hack around the lack of per-arch extraoverrides
[03:40] <Kamion> Task: ubuntu-desktop needed to be different on different architectures, in some cases
[03:40] <Kamion> and the rest fell out in the wash
[03:49] <lamont> hrmpf.  could have sworn I uploaded the new dhcp3 yesterday
[03:52] <lamont> daniels around?
[04:02] <Kamion> lamont: so, what should I do about netcfg?
[04:02] <Kamion> I could just upload what I've got here to get the translation stats right, and then you can fix up what you need ...
[04:02] <Kamion> I think I'm too tired to do sensible testing myself
[04:11] <LeeJunFan> are debian-cd utils the best way to go to make a DVD/RW or 2 with main,universe? I have a local mirror with debmirror.
[04:12] <bluefoxicy> Is Ubuntu gonna use a dynamic theme when cairo comes into gtk+ main for ubuntu?  :)
[04:13] <mjg59> lamont: pcc_acpi is for Panasonics - it'll often end up loaded even when it's not strictly necessary (acpi has no infrastructure for hotplug yet)
[04:16] <dilinger> luminosity as the default wm for bendy/breezy.  that's what i'm gonna push for ;)
[04:16] <Kamion> LeeJunFan: haven't quite finished exporting my debian-cd branch to the world; it's nearly there but not quite
[04:16] <Kamion> LeeJunFan: come back in a few days and I should have it sorted :)
[04:18] <LeeJunFan> Kamion: thanks. I have a load of friends who are gonna want to install ubuntu/kubuntu that have dial-up :)
[04:19] <Kamion> LeeJunFan: we already produce a DVD of all the supported packages
[04:19] <Kamion> if they're utterly and unredeemably desperate for something from universe, we'd like to know so that we can decide if it should be supported ...
[04:20] <Kamion> lamont: I've gone ahead and uploaded netcfg 1.08ubuntu5 with just the translation fixes, since I need to sleep soon
[04:20] <Kamion> lamont: go ahead and do whatever you need to do to its DHCP code if you've had a chance to test it
[04:22] <LeeJunFan> Kamion: no, mostly newbies - they don't know what they want yet. But I know a few of them want kde default, and the DVD's currently seem to be ubuntu flavored only.
[04:23] <LeeJunFan> granted they could apt kde, but...
[04:25] <Kamion> LeeJunFan: there's a Kubuntu DVD too
[04:25] <Kamion> separate
[04:25] <Kamion> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/dvd/
[05:10] <zul> dilinger: why?
[05:22] <lamont> Kamion: will do
[05:26] <lamont> why isn't openssh-server in ship seed???
[05:27] <Kamion> ship: * ssh
[05:27] <Kamion> lamont: ssh dep openssh-server
[05:27] <lamont> Kamion: hrm... it's not on the CD...
[05:52] <lu|away> ?
[05:53] <lamont> archive is signed and checked by the install process.
[05:53] <lamont> so, you first have to hack over the ubuntu-keyring package.  Then, having hacked over everything you care about, you have to build and sign valid Release files.
[05:54] <lamont> well, an alternative to the first would be to break the archive signing key, but that would be bad, as well as computationally intensive.
[05:55] <Lathiat> heh
[05:55] <Lathiat> fun
[05:56] <lamont> Lathiat: something like that
[06:06] <lamont> would be more fun if it actually had worked
[06:06] <lamont> grumble
[06:16] <fabbione> morning everyone
[06:30] <tritium> good morning, fabbione :)
[06:56] <schweeb> fabbione: you wanted something earlier?
[06:56] <fabbione> schweeb: yes :-)
[06:56] <fabbione> i am working on xen kernel side atm...
[06:57] <schweeb> cool
[06:57] <fabbione> and i am trying to integrate it directly into the standard kernel
[06:57] <schweeb> oh really?
[06:57] <fabbione> what is the status for userland?
[06:57] <fabbione> schweeb: try != it will be there
[06:57] <schweeb> heh
[06:59] <fabbione> the build part of it is a bit complex
[06:59] <schweeb> well, you said the userspace only works properly with python 2.3?
[06:59] <fabbione> or better...
[06:59] <fabbione> schweeb: yes.
[06:59] <fabbione> so you need to Build-Dep and patch to use python2.3
[07:00] <fabbione> or talk with upstream about 2.4
[07:00] <schweeb> patch to use 2.3? it doesn't work oob w/ 2.3?
[07:00] <fabbione> also.. did you see the xen packages in debian?
[07:00] <schweeb> yea
[07:00] <schweeb> doogie's
[07:00] <fabbione> yes
[07:00] <schweeb> they're kinda messy IMO, so I started my own
[07:00] <fabbione> there are a bunch ofpatches you might want to steal
[07:00] <schweeb> done :)
[07:00] <schweeb> about 5 patches, 3 of which were truly necessary
[07:00] <fabbione> i think they are pretty clean, excluding the kernel part that we might not need at all
[07:01] <schweeb> the rules file was goofy... manually moving files and stuff
[07:02] <fabbione> schweeb: moving file manually has nothing to do with being a clean package :-)
[07:02] <fabbione> it's the resulting deb that it is important
[07:02] <schweeb> heh
[07:02] <fabbione> but clearly a clean debian/rules helps maintaing the package
[07:02] <schweeb> yea, I like clean debian/rules
[07:02] <fabbione> so do i
[07:02] <schweeb> using cdbs
[07:03] <Amaranth> cdbs > *
[07:03] <schweeb> one of my MAIN problems with his package is that he was using some goofy new patch management system he came up with
[07:03] <schweeb> the patches are pre-applied...
[07:03] <Amaranth> i had a hackish rules file that i couldn't even understand, cdbs makes it 4 lines
[07:03] <schweeb> I don't like that much
[07:03] <schweeb> dpatch is <3
[07:04] <schweeb> fabbione: you think you'll have a kernel ready for release? do you want to try for the userspace in universe?
[07:05] <schweeb> I could do it, but it'd take a bit of massaging
[07:05] <fabbione> schweeb: it's all written in README.build (about the new patch management system)
[07:05] <schweeb> yea, I think it's goofy :)
[07:05] <fabbione> schweeb: i might get a kernel, but clearly not inside the archive for hoary
[07:05] <fabbione> schweeb: this is for breezy
[07:06] <schweeb> okay
[07:06] <schweeb> well, I'll focus on some other universe packages for the next week or so (I'm going for MOTU), and then I'll start back on my packages
[07:07] <fabbione> schweeb: sure. make sence
[07:12] <aalam> hi all,
[07:12] <aalam>  i want to start Punjabi Language for Ubuntu, can anybody help me??
[07:13] <schweeb> I think you want to look into Rosetta
[07:14] <schweeb> although, I'm not sure the status of Rosetta translation yet...
[07:15] <aalam> yes
[07:15] <myles3> sabmoc are you here
[07:15] <schweeb> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TranslationTeam
[07:15] <sabmoc> myles3: ues
[07:16] <schweeb> and https://launchpad.ubuntulinux.org/rosetta
[07:16] <schweeb> er
[07:16] <schweeb> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/rosetta
[07:16] <aalam> i check first two
[07:16] <sabmoc> myles3: If you can set it up then go for it
[07:16] <myles3> sabmoc: cool i can also setup the forum
[07:17] <myles3> sabmoc: i have php and mysql
[07:17] <sabmoc> myles3: alright
[07:17] <sabmoc> myles3: Im actually excited :)
[07:18] <sabmoc> myles3: let us know when its ready, im looking forward to it
[07:18] <aalam> sabmoc, thanks
[07:19] <sabmoc> ryan and me will get the pybloxsom site up as soon as I get a hold of him
[07:20] <sabmoc> aalam: ?
[07:20] <myles3> sabmoc: do you wnat me to setup a forum to?
[07:20] <sabmoc> myles3: dont worry about that for now, if you want to set it up so its ready go ahead but I dont think we'll use it much for a while yet
[07:21] <sabmoc> eventually yes, but not right now
[07:22] <myles3> do you want ftp accuse
[07:22] <sabmoc> myles3: no need
[07:22] <myles3> okay but what about the domain
[07:23] <sabmoc> we will have to talk to smurfix, but I think he is sleeping
[07:24] <smurfix> sabmoc: not any more ;-)
[07:24] <sabmoc> hehe
[07:24] <sabmoc> smurfix: so pybloxsom is no problem
[07:26] <aalam> sabmoc, sorry, i want to say to schweeb :)
[07:26] <sabmoc> aalam: np 
[07:27] <fabbione> for i in 386-xen0 386 386-xenu 686 686-xen0 686-smp 686-xenu k7 k7-xen0 k7-smp k7-xenu; do \
[07:27] <fabbione> schweeb: ^
[07:28] <sabmoc> smurfix: I am just waiting for ryan, I will help him with the ssh signing and whatever
[07:29] <schweeb> fabbione: you're making all of those? damn
[07:29] <smurfix> sabmoc: OK, installed. Can y'all take this to ubuntu-ca? It's somewhat offtopic here.
[07:30] <sabmoc> yep
[07:32] <fabbione> schweeb: we need the xen0 and xenU per flavour :(
[07:34] <schweeb> yea :-/
[07:35] <schweeb> so what's going on? you're gonna try to merge the Xen patches into the ubuntu patched kernels?
[07:37] <fabbione> schweeb: kinda
[07:37] <fabbione> yes
[07:38] <schweeb> it'd be really nice if Xen would get accepted into kernel main, eh ;)
[07:40] <schweeb> sparse tree is kinda annoying
[07:40] <fabbione> schweeb: i agree, and the generic part of the patch is not really intrusive
[07:42] <schweeb> are you actually employed by Canonical? /me has a hard time keeping track of who is and who isn't
[07:45] <fabbione> schweeb: yes, but that shouldn't really make any difference :-)
[07:45] <schweeb> just curious, heh
[07:45] <schweeb> it's nice to know who's who 
[07:46] <fabbione> schweeb: well you can consider me as your god, i have kernel privileges on all your ubuntu machines
[07:46] <fabbione> :)
[07:46] <schweeb> lol
[07:47] <schweeb> ubuntu is the only distro where I  haven't felt the need to compile my own from vanilla so far
[07:47] <fabbione> :)
[07:47] <Lathiat> haha yeh
[07:47] <Lathiat> theyre nice, helps having the restricted modules package too
[07:48] <schweeb> I'm not afraid to compile the nvidia drivers :)
[07:48] <Lathiat> oh i run binary nvidia drivers anyway
[07:48] <Lathiat> cus my suspend works with the latest ones
[07:48] <Lathiat> but having ipw2200 by default is a bonus
[07:48] <schweeb> I just got lazy with kernels
[07:48] <Lathiat> and i need a faster ninternet connection
[07:48] <Lathiat> 54K/s just isnt fast enough
[07:49] <schweeb> back when 2.5.x was around, I was always running the latest ck patches and shit
[07:49] <Lathiat> haha
[07:49] <Lathiat> i never ran 2.5 much
[07:49] <Lathiat> i followed early 2.6 pretty close tho
[07:49] <Lathiat> usually with the mm patchset
[07:49] <schweeb> it was rather thrilling
[07:49] <schweeb> yea, up until 2.6.7 or so I always ran mm patchsets
[07:50] <Lathiat> i just run ubuntu stock now, these days when i try to make my own kernel its all pain :)
[07:50] <Lathiat> usually cus im tryign to get swsusp2 going with an initrd but meh
[08:11] <Lathiat> new gtk/metacity/etc themes are rocking, not too fond of the gnome splash tho
[08:14] <pitti> Hi everybody
[08:18] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:18] <pitti> fabbione: the bluetooth bug we talked about is public
[08:18] <pitti> fabbione: so I guess we fix this immediately after RC?
[08:18] <fabbione> pitti: ok, can you send me the usual stuff via email?
[08:18] <fabbione> pitti: or now..
[08:19] <fabbione> mdz: ?
[08:19] <pitti> fabbione: sent
[08:19] <fabbione> pitti: thanks
[08:46] <geneo93> would anyone be interested in a file sharing app that uses qt and a muscled server
[09:14] <Roey> hi
[09:14] <Roey> oh
[09:14] <Roey> great, this place exists.
[09:15] <Roey> this is a devel question I think, because a kernel module package is refusing to compile under the ubuntu kernel it was produced for
[09:17] <Roey> http://rafb.net/paste/results/vH9gKH96.html
[09:27] <Mowa> hey google :)  http://www.playzero.com
[09:27] <Roey> hey google/?
[09:28] <mdz> fabbione: ?
[09:40] <pitti> mdz: he's already away for family stuff
[09:41] <pitti> mdz: the bluetooth vuln we talked about is public now
[09:41] <Roey> fabbione:  nevermind, I fixed it.  The problem was that I was installing modules for the ubuntu kernel yet /boot/vmlinuz and /usr/src/linux were symlinked to my custom kernel (2.6.11.5, which you see in the error text I posted)
[09:41] <Roey> please disregard, then
[09:41] <pitti> mdz: the patch itself is trivial, but nevertheless you might want it fixed after RC?
[09:41] <pitti> mdz: gotta go, too now
[09:41] <pitti> happy Easter everybody!
[09:44] <dholbach> goooood morning! how are you all?
[10:26] <kain> hi
[10:27] <kain> today I downloaded the new fix and upstream release for ubuntu-artwork in hoary, now the icons using the human icon theme shows up, but they're from the Gnome theme, not from the human theme. human icon theme is missing /usr/share/icons/Human/mimetypes again
[10:45] <zyga> hello
[10:45] <zyga> dhdpc had a bug in latest update
[10:46] <zyga> comma was missing in /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf
[10:49] <dholbach> could you post the diff in a bugreport on bugzilla?
[10:57] <Mitario> hi everyone
[11:07] <mantiena> amu: hi, do you need live-installer sources ?
[11:16] <claude> enrico, you speek french ?
[11:16] <enrico> claude: bien sur!
[11:17] <claude> ah... j'ai plus de facilit  crire le franais quand mme :)
[11:17] <claude> c'est au sujet des traductions de la doc
[11:18] <enrico> claude: oui, mais ceci c'est  un canal en anglais
[11:19] <claude> ok so let's try in english :P
[11:20] <claude> did you think about my mail ?
[11:20] <claude> what solution could we imagine to facilitate the translation of ubuntu-doc
[11:20] <enrico> claude: I have no idea
[11:20] <enrico> that's why I asked the translators
[11:20] <enrico> :)
[11:21] <claude> i think the core team should think about it
[11:21] <claude> it's very important that official Ubuntu doc be available in other languages
[11:22] <enrico> It sure is important
[11:23] <claude> maybe you could open a svn rep for each language ?
[11:24] <claude> but the difficulty is to keep in synch different languages
[11:24] <enrico> Those repos would be unused if the translators don't need them
[11:24] <claude> what about rosetta ?
[11:25] <enrico> claude: ask carlos :)
[11:25] <claude> hi carlos
[11:25] <claude> we're talking about ubuntu doc translation
[11:26] <carlos> what? what?
[11:26] <carlos> :-D
[11:26] <carlos> morning
[11:26] <claude> lol
[11:27] <carlos> claude: what do you want to know?
[11:27] <claude> you told in a mail that Rosetta team would soon start looking into documentation translation
[11:28] <claude> would it be possible that ubuntu doc pot files be available in Rosetta soon ?
[11:29] <claude> btw, there is problems in Rosetta just now
[11:29] <carlos> claude: we don't have a concrete date for it, our main goal is getting all Hoary .pot/.po imported into Rosetta
[11:29] <carlos> but, I think it's easy to reuse
[11:29] <carlos> our current system to import also the documentation
[11:29] <carlos> claude: yeah, I know :-(
[11:30] <claude> enrico just send us pot file for about-ubuntu
[11:30] <claude> could it be inserted in Rosetta for testing ?
[11:31] <carlos> so, perhaps (please, don't take it as a compromise, our main goal are normal translations), at the end of this week we could look into a way to import the documentation as .pot files if you supply us a specific tarball format with the .pot and any existing .po file
[11:32] <enrico> carlos: so, About Ubuntu and Release Notes will be untranslated when Hoary releases?
[11:32] <carlos> the idea is that this Tuesday, Rosetta let you translate Hoary's .pot files
[11:32] <zyga> dholbach: I'll try
[11:33] <zyga> dholbach: I've observed this on my parent's box
[11:33] <zyga> dholbach: I'm doing an upgrade here now 
[11:33] <carlos> enrico: as I said, we could try to import them into Rosetta automatically but only if the normal import works and it's ready in time
[11:34] <claude> carlos: can we imagine that translations be added into Hoary updates after the official release ? 
[11:34] <carlos> claude: that's exactly the point behind the language packs
[11:36] <zyga> dholbach: It's already filed
[11:36] <zyga> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8213
[11:37] <zyga> that's a really nasty bug
[11:37] <carlos> claude: I'm going to paste some info at #ubuntu-doc about the way to import the documentation into rosetta
[11:37] <zyga> withoug human intevention people loose net access :/
[11:38] <zyga> lamont: ping?
[12:12] <mantiena> Kamion: hi, could you tell me how to make partman and other standart ubuntu-installer modules start after casper module (I added install-mode parameter to casper and in install mode casper doesn't start init from filesystem.cloop) ?
[12:35] <trulux> heya pitti 
[12:35] <trulux> pitti: wooka!
[12:35] <trulux> :)
[12:35] <dholbach> hey pitti
[12:35] <trulux> pitti: libssp 1.3.1-1 finished, we're ready to go forward to the toolchain mods
[12:36] <adobbie> trulux: source is at same URL as before?
[12:36] <trulux> adobbie: right
[12:37] <trulux> adobbie: http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/libssp/
[12:37] <adobbie> I'm up at 6am on a saturday so I think I have some time to look at it :)
[12:38] <trulux> adobbie: great, the package will leave Lintian pleasing ;)
[12:41] <adobbie> objdump: debian/libssp1/usr/lib/libssp.so: File format not recognized
[12:41] <trulux> oops
[12:41] <adobbie> still see that though
[12:42] <trulux> adobbie: hah, NP, libssp.so on /usr/lib/ is an ld-script
[12:42] <trulux> adobbie: it's ASCII
[12:42] <trulux> btw
[12:42] <trulux> anyone knows how to import pages on MediaWiki =>1.4rc1?
[12:42] <trulux> it's frustrating me
[12:43] <adobbie> yes, I know :)
[12:43] <adobbie> I wrote the original one
[12:43] <adobbie> more of a cut and paste from something else though
[12:43] <trulux> hehe
[12:44] <trulux> maybe the Ulrich Drepper DSO howto had something to do with it ;D
[12:45] <adobbie> apparently PaX has issues with my perl
[12:45] <adobbie> I think there must be another bug
[12:46] <trulux> what happens?
[12:46] <adobbie> perl locks into some kind of infinite loop
[12:46] <adobbie> 100% CPU
[12:47] <adobbie> but only under high system load
[12:47] <Kamion> zyga: fixed
[12:48] <adobbie> that's why my defoma was running indefinitely yesterday
[12:51] <zyga> Kamion: thanks
[12:51] <zyga> How to force update-po to get both of ngettext's arguments?
[12:51] <zyga> I'm hacking update-manager again
[12:51] <zyga> and just cant understand how python's update-po works 
[12:52] <zyga> (or - update-po for python source code)
[12:52] <zyga> in C it "just worked" (tm)
[12:53] <zyga> pitti: hi :-)
[02:27] <ggi> Is the ubuntu-artwork version of the clearlooks theme (Human) kept in sync with the current version of gtk2-engines-clearlooks? I've noticed that a bug which was fixed in the 0.5 release of clearlooks is still present in the Human theme (and not present in the current version of gtk2-engines-clearlooks).
[02:33] <zyga> ggi: you could try to mail the maintainer
[02:33] <zyga> [of the ubuntu package] 
[02:54] <_d4vid> hi all
[02:58] <mantiena> mdz: hi, are you online ?
[03:18] <mantiena> I wonder where it would be better to mount hard disk partitions, which are in user's hard drive(s), for example windows C and D disks or linux partition from other distributions... According to FHS 2.3 /mnt should be never used for permanent mounts, so, maybe in /media ?
[03:19] <zyga> mantiena: maybe /windows or /media/windows
[03:24] <Micksa> why would hoary's apt ignore some archives? does it require stuff to be signed?...
[03:24] <Micksa> ah....
[03:24] <dholbach> bbl
[03:34] <mantiena> zyga: /windows (directly from / ) isn't good choice, because in general there could be a lot of different partitions in user's hard drive(s), not only windows partitions, but also partitions from other Linux or *bsd, distributions, dos partitions or some special partitions created for user's needs, for example I have portable 80 Gb hard drive (which is connected throught IDE interface) with ext3 filesystem for my digital video.
[03:35] <zyga> mantiena: true, then maybe /media/partitions/*
[03:35] <zyga> mantiena: then you could have all bsd,fat and cherry-on-top if you like
[03:36] <mantiena> zyga: ;)
[03:37] <Mithrandir> pmount mounts them in /media/$partitionname by default
[03:37] <Kamion> zyga: er, you might as well call it /media/media/* :P
[03:37] <Kamion> I see no reason for a subdirectory of /media
[03:37] <Mithrandir> Kamion: /media/media/media! :P
[03:37] <Kamion> what's wrong with just /media/$devicename, like pmount?
[03:37] <mantiena> Mithrandir: pmount works only with removable storage, but I'm talking about IDE and SCSI hard disks
[03:38] <Kamion> mantiena: that doesn't mean you can't put static mounts in the same place
[03:38] <mantiena> Kamion: I think it's fine /media/$devicename
[03:38] <Mithrandir> mantiena: why would you want a different scheme for static stuff?
[03:38] <mantiena> Mithrandir: I don't want different ;)
[03:38] <Mithrandir> ook :)
[03:38] <zyga> Kamion: well it gives a distinction from /media/cdrom so /media/hard-disks/foo is better then having /media cluttered
[03:38] <mantiena> I think /media is the best ;)
[03:39] <Kamion> zyga: strongly disagree - it's /media/cdrom because it's /dev/cdrom
[03:39] <Kamion> predictability and consistency is important
[03:40] <zyga> Kamion: and if you have 20 partitions it's /media/hd[a-z] [0-9]  ? 
[03:40] <mantiena> but I don't want to be uncompatible with ubuntu (at least from users view), so I'm asking ubuntu developers opinion ;)
[03:40] <Mithrandir> zyga: /media won't be cluttered much, if you have more than ten hard drives connected to a computer, you're fairly exceptional and can probably deal with it
[03:40] <Kamion> zyga: yep. that's fine.
[03:40] <Mithrandir> zyga: 20 partitions?  Use labels and you'll have /media/random-windows-foo, /media/music and so on.
[03:40] <mantiena> zyga: in any case, if user has zillion partitions, then it's users problem, not us ;)
[03:41] <zyga> hehe, maybe so ;-)
[03:41] <zyga> Kamion: I like when usb sticks get their labels right
[03:42] <zyga> so it's /media/foo-usb-stick 
[03:42] <zyga> and at the same time /media/bar-usb-stick
[03:42] <Kamion> gar, I hate the bugzilla-spam "let's leave the same comment in three different bugs all assigned to the same person" approach
[03:42] <mantiena> in windows user gets a lot of logical drives (c,d,e,f,g, etc) if he has zillion partitions, so it seems he don't wouldn't want to have too many partitions ;)
[03:43] <mantiena> s/don't//
[04:13] <mantiena> Kamion: I wanna put draft specification of partition-finder component at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InstallerTeam
[04:13] <mantiena> is this correct place ?
[04:16] <Mithrandir> mantiena: you would probably make a new page
[04:17] <mantiena> Mithrandir: yes, but at which place ?
[04:17] <zyga> mantiena: hmm BTW how do I extract windows partition name?
[04:18] <Kamion> mantiena: I don't really care as long as you don't dump it inline into the InstallerTeam page :)
[04:18] <Mithrandir> mantiena: just name it PartitionFinder or something.
[04:19] <mantiena> Kamion: previously you told me, that name "partition-finder" is not good for such component, maybe you could suggest better name ?
[04:20] <zyga> Who writes changelog.Debian files?
[04:21] <Kamion> well, you're clearly not finding partitions, but looking inside them; partition-prober might be a better name
[04:21] <Kamion> zyga: each individual developer
[04:22] <Kamion> mantiena: might also be worth pondering how much of your code would be shared with os-prober, and how to cope with that
[04:22] <Kamion> you could conceivably change the os-prober source package to have it spit out a second binary package, so that you don't have to clone-and-hack the code
[04:23] <mantiena> Kamion: so, you suggest to make 2 binary packages (os-prober and partition-finder) from single os-prober source packages ?
[04:25] <oly> hi, Seveans told me to ask if the nforce onboard network card is stil supported 
[04:25] <oly> since the update this morning, it has been broken 
[04:25] <oly> i know there was a bug in the packages 
[04:25] <oly> and have the newer ones now, but the nforce card still does not work 
[04:25] <oly> but another card does
[04:26] <oly> mii-diag eth0 returns SIOCGMIIPHY on eth0 failed: Operation not supported
[04:26] <Kamion> mantiena: os-prober and partition-prober unless you insist on the misleading partition-finder name; but yeah, that's just one suggestion off the top of my head, don't take it as holy word or anything
[04:27] <restrex> hi guyz... when I enable inotify at the /boot/grub/menu.lst, the gnome session paralize when it's booting, when I disable inotify the gnome session starts normally, How can I fix it?? thanks
[04:27] <oly> the card worked perfectly this morning though,
[04:27] <Kamion> mantiena: and I only said "look at it and see how much code you're sharing"; the answer will depend on that
[04:27] <Kamion> restrex: inotify's known broken on some systems which is why it's switched off by default
[04:27] <oly> also are there any kernel modules that are needed for the nforce network card ?
[04:27] <Kamion> oly: dhcp3 broke this morning
[04:28] <oly> yeah, i know it was fixed at 12
[04:28] <zyga> Kamion: where can I read about the format of changelog.Debian files/
[04:28] <Kamion> oly: look at /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf, there's probably a missing comma before "interface-mtu"
[04:28] <oly> i installed the fixed ones
[04:28] <Kamion> zyga: the Debian Policy Manual
[04:28] <restrex> Kamion cool, tnx btw
[04:28] <oly> okay, Kamion will look at that file
[04:28] <Seveas> Kamion, he installed the fixed dhcp-client packages, but mii-diag gives errors when probing
[04:29] <Kamion> no idea then, the kernel hasn't changed that recently
[04:29] <oly> also my last update before that was yesterday
[04:30] <oly> so its something recent, 
[04:30] <Kamion> last kernel changes were on Thursday and don't look like they should have affected anything to do with network cards
[04:30] <Kamion> you sure there isn't just a screwed dhclient process lying around somewhere?
[04:30] <Seveas> no, we've killall-ed them
[04:30] <Kamion> I hate to ask, but have you rebooted since?
[04:30] <Seveas> and it already goes wring with mii-diag
[04:31] <oly> i have rebooted a few time 
[04:31] <Seveas> ao it's not dhclient related
[04:31] <oly> it all started with a reboot though 
[04:31] <Kamion> and had you rebooted since the last kernel upgrade?
[04:31] <oly> i upgraded this morning and rebooted,
[04:31] <oly> i have also rebooted since applyig the patch
[04:31] <Kamion> I mean before today
[04:32] <oly> oh, possibly not
[04:32] <oly> i leave the computer on for long periods at a time
[04:32] <Kamion> could be way back, then; please file a bug on the 'linux' component
[04:32] <mantiena> Kamion: you told me "you're clearly not finding partitions, but looking inside them", I don't understand what I should look inside them :( I think I just should find all partitions, which are mountable (contains filesystem, which can be mounted with linux) and not belongs to being installed system (are not mounted as /, /home, /tmp, /var, etc) and this is all
[04:33] <Kamion> mantiena: so you're probing the filesystem
[04:33] <Kamion> and thus avoiding mounting random stuff like Apple driver partitions
[04:33] <oly> okay, does that mean file the bug for i2c-nforce2 ?
[04:34] <Kamion> oly: whatever's broken :)
[04:34] <oly> i take it thats the component in question ? 
[04:34] <Kamion> oly: please include 'lspci' and 'lspci -n'
[04:34] <oly> no idea, the network card is broke lol 
[04:34] <Kamion> oly: as I said, "on the 'linux' component"
[04:35] <oly> i can sort the lspci stuff no prob, not sure what component it is though
[04:35] <Kamion> what do you mean by "component"?
[04:36] <oly> oly: as I said, "on the 'linux' component"  
[04:36] <Kamion> in bugzilla
[04:36] <oly> oh right not used bugzilla yet 
[04:36] <Kamion> it asks you for an Ubuntu component to file the bug against
[04:36] <oly> just looking now
[04:36] <mantiena> Kamion: there are no way to discover filesystem without probing (for example by looking in /proc/some_file ) ?
[04:37] <Kamion> mantiena: no
[04:37] <Kamion> mantiena: the standard way in the installer is to use parted or libparted
[04:38] <mantiena> Kamion: thanks for info, AFAIK (lib)parted probes for partitions (sometime not correctly ;) ), so component name will be partition-prober (at least for now ) ;)
[04:40] <oly> um, any idea what the package would be ?
[04:41] <mantiena> oly: ?
[04:41] <oly> just got to the ubuntu bugzilla page 
[04:41] <oly> its asking for a package as required
[04:41] <oly> no idea what package broke my network card :p
[04:41] <Kamion> oly: oh, it's called package now, I thought it used to be component. the package is 'linux'
[04:42] <Kamion> i.e. the kernel
[04:42] <oly> oh right 
[04:44] <mantiena> Kamion: btw, it seems http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InstallerTeam is outdated (for example some Goals for Hoary are different from reality), can I update this page to match current situation ?
[04:46] <oly> okay, where do i put my lspci logs ? 
[04:46] <oly> paste them in the description ?
[04:46] <Lathiat> yeh
[04:46] <oly> okay
[04:47] <Kamion> mantiena: I'd rather do that myself; will go and bump some of them to breezy now
[04:47] <mantiena> ;)
[04:48] <Kamion> and only the graphical installer got deferred (well, and floppy installs, but that turned out not to be possible)
[04:49] <Kamion> mantiena: done
[04:50] <mantiena> Kamion: thanks
[05:00] <oly> okay, got it submitted now finally :p
[05:00] <oly> thxs for the help / info :)
[05:04] <zyga> when is breezy going to appear in archive.ubuntulinux.org?
[05:05] <Kamion> zyga: in the case of hoary, we only brought it up after warty released
[05:06] <Kamion> zyga: dunno if we'll be doing the same again this time
[05:06] <Kamion> it certainly won't be worth paying any attention to until after hoary releases
[05:08] <Kamion> oly: so after I said 'linux' three times, you filed it against kernel-package instead? ;)
[05:09] <davyd> Moin!
[05:09] <Mitario> hi davyd ;-)
[05:10] <davyd> so, who wants to put some icing on the cake with regards to iPod handling in GNOME ?
[05:10] <tseng> davyd: hm?
[05:10] <davyd> tseng: well, just now, I docked my iPod, and it appeared on my desktop, which is COOL++
[05:10] <tseng> yep.
[05:10] <davyd> it appears as a firewire disk
[05:10] <davyd> which is fair enough
[05:11] <davyd> the context menu offers me "Unmount" to remove the disk
[05:11] <tseng> yes..
[05:11] <davyd> however, with iPods, if you send them SCSI-Eject (ie, use the eject command)
[05:11] <davyd> they display the "Ok to Disconnect" screen
[05:11] <zyga> davyd: BTW what can I do so that usb sticks appear on my destkop?
[05:11] <davyd> zyga: display volumes on the desktop, perhaps?
[05:12] <zyga> davyd: a folder gets opened - true but if I close it then It's a venture down /media (far too many clicks)
[05:12] <tseng> zyga: uh, are you using inotify?
[05:12] <tseng> zyga: or too-old gamin
[05:12] <davyd> tseng: basically, it would be really rad if it was detected as an iPod, used the iPod icon, and instead of Unmount perhaps said "Disconnect"
[05:12] <zyga> tseng: checking...
[05:13] <tseng> davyd: meh.
[05:13] <zyga> tseng: gamin
[05:13] <davyd> where Disconnect would send the eject sequence (I assume via the same mechanism as ejecting CD-ROMs)
[05:13] <tseng> that touches alot of areas, not sure which one its actually in
[05:13] <davyd> tseng: probably gnome-vfs mostly
[05:13] <tseng> iirc pitti had some kind of "fix" for this at one point
[05:13] <davyd> I haven't hacked in that area for ages though
[05:13] <lamont> zyga: ack
[05:13] <tseng> to call eject
[05:14] <tseng> zyga: i meant, what version
[05:14] <davyd> tseng: it would be the rad icing on the cake, and I thought someone here might just know how to do it
[05:14] <davyd> to save me rooting around in there for days
[05:14] <zyga> lamont: fixed already, hup :-)
[05:14] <lamont> cool
[05:14] <tseng> > Concerning https://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2134, I
[05:14] <tseng> > put up a (still) unofficial new gnome-vfs2 package which should
[05:14] <tseng> > (finally) handle the unmounting of iPods correctly. It also plays
[05:14] <tseng> > better with USB sticks, they are actually powered off now.
[05:15] <zyga> tseng: 0.0.26-0ubuntu1
[05:15] <davyd> (the man owned Thwarte for cryin' out loud)
[05:15] <zyga> davyd: you mentioned 'display volumes on the desktop', where is that?
[05:16] <davyd> zyga: I think it's only exposed through gconf-editor
[05:16] <davyd> zyga: it's actually something I added ;)
[05:16] <zyga> davyd: argh... GUI, kingdom for a GUI ;] 
[05:16] <Kamion> davyd: and I think his standard reply to that observation is "I've dealt with far too many certificates in my time", or similar :)
[05:16] <Kamion> after all, if there's anyone you'd expect to know that SSL certificates are snake oil ... ;)
[05:17] <zyga> davyd: you could patch gnome-volume-properties
[05:17] <davyd> Kamion: it's one of my constant sources of amusement
[05:17] <davyd> Kamion: however, I am easily amused ;)
[05:17] <davyd> zyga: to do?
[05:17] <zyga> davyd: include a checkbox  'show mounted stuff on my desktop'
[05:18] <davyd> zyga: interesting idea
[05:18] <davyd> zyga: of course, it assumes the person is running nautilus
[05:18] <tseng> uh, thats not exactly part of the same use case
[05:18] <tseng> or at least it crosses components in a bad way
[05:19] <zyga> davyd: hmmm true but It's better to support the majority than to support no-one and be 'correct' about it ;] 
[05:19] <davyd> tseng: yeah
[05:19] <davyd> zyga: it was never exposed, because at the time everyone had volumes turned on
[05:19] <zyga> davyd: if someone uses something different he might just patch it again
[05:19] <davyd> I wanted to turn them off because I had almost no screen space
[05:19] <davyd> I have them on on my big monitor'ed machine now
[05:20] <zyga> davyd: I saw fedora a moment ago and it works the way you described it, but on hoary it doesn't 
[05:20] <zyga> davyd: gconf key must be turned off then... checking :)
[05:20] <davyd> zyga: I think it is on Hoary
[05:20] <davyd> tseng: so no chance of seeing a fix for this then?
[05:20] <davyd> tseng: I see from the bug that there were issues
[05:21] <tseng> yes.
[05:21] <davyd> but it's not clear if they were resolved
[05:21] <tseng> there is a "link" to another bug
[05:21] <zyga> davyd: which key is that?
[05:21] <davyd> tseng: I don't see it...
[05:21] <tseng> 1891
[05:22] <davyd> zyga: /apps/nautilus/desktop/volumes_visible or something?
[05:22] <zyga> davyd: hmm it was checked
[05:22] <zyga> davyd: but plugging in usb stick did not show anything
[05:24] <davyd> tseng: hmm, ok
[05:25] <davyd> tseng: it looks much deeper then I originally suspected
[05:25] <zyga> davyd: just checked that again, doesn't work
[05:26] <zyga> davyd: should an icon appear in "my computer" too?
[05:28] <tseng> zyga: yes
[05:28] <tseng> zyga: do you have a /dev/inotify?
[05:29] <zyga> tseng: no
[05:30] <zyga> tseng: what should I install?
[05:30] <tseng> you should not have that
[05:30] <zyga> tseng: so, now what?
[05:30] <tseng> so, i dont know why you arent seeing your /media stuff updating on desktop/computer
[05:34] <torkel> is gnome-volume-manager running?
[05:35] <zyga> tseng: yes
[05:35] <davyd> hmm, this creates an interesting issue with the charging of said iPod now I can reproduce this
[05:35] <zyga> zyga      8533  0.0  1.3  16772  6820 ?        Ss   11:31   0:01 gnome-volume-manager --sm-client-id default5
[05:35] <davyd> before it worked, I just docked it and it never mounted
[05:35] <davyd> now that it works, docking it mounts it
[05:35] <davyd> and ejecting breaks it
[05:35] <davyd> hmm
[05:36] <oly> oops, sorry kamion kernel did not pop up in the list of packages
[05:36] <oly> i tried a few variations that seemed like the closest one :p
[05:36] <oly> cani change it to something else ?
[05:38] <Kamion> oly: that's why I said 'linux' clearly; we call it by its upstream name rather than 'kernel'. I've already reassigned it.
[05:39] <oly> okay, thxs i was a bit confused that linux was not in the list :p 
[05:40] <HiddenWolf> Is the latest daily safe?
[05:45] <Kamion> oly: it is in the list
[05:45] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: the one I just built this afternoon should be
[05:45] <herve> hi
[05:45] <herve> elmo, ping
[05:49] <HiddenWolf> Kamion: I can't seem to find a decent awnser: are there any major pros/cons to running x86-64 on the desktop atm?
[05:52] <Mithrandir> HiddenWolf: they're a bit faster, depending on the application.
[05:53] <oly> i'm just blind then lol
[05:54] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir: is it possible to have java/flash in firefox, do all the things you'd expect on a desktop?
[05:55] <zyga> HiddenWolf: flash - not easily (you'd need 32bit firefox) - macromedia didn't make 64bit flash plugin
[05:55] <Mithrandir> HiddenWolf: flash, no, java, yes.
[05:56] <HiddenWolf> Sorry for going off-topic, but how easy/hard is it to run a 32b app once the system is 64?
[05:56] <mdz> HiddenWolf: please take this conversation to #ubuntu; you know it's off-topic here
[05:56] <zul> hey
[06:13] <sivang> hey all
[06:13] <Kamion> hi
[06:14] <Kamion> sivang: did you see my call for translations?
[06:14] <sivang> Kamion: nope, sorry, was detached mot of the week, what do you need?
[06:16] <Kamion> sivang: installer translations - apparently Rosetta isn't quite ready for them yet so I'm doing them by steam - http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-March/006121.html
[06:17] <sivang> Kamion: eh I see, ok, that's fine I'll read over. What about {live|install}cd localization howto? Have you managed to get to them?
[06:17] <Kamion> there's already a live remastering howto; install, no :-(
[06:18] <Kamion> I think at this rate it might be a post-release thing, unless there's a lull after release candidate (which I doubt)
[06:18] <sivang> Kamion: yes I know, But I don't think it contains insts. for localization or does it?
[06:18] <Kamion> oh I see; well, pretty much likewise
[06:18] <Kamion> there's stuff in the installation manual though
[06:18] <sivang> Kamion: true, I need to get to it and stop bothering you :)
[06:18] <Kamion> documents preseed/locale= and such
[06:22] <sivang> Kamion: btw, just some maybe an installer usability qustions, is there a way to make d-i offer partitionning scheme on the free space left on a drive? (leaving the other fs intact)
[06:23] <Kamion> sivang: yes, that was removed in warty but I thought I'd restored that in partman-auto 38ubuntu1
[06:23] <Kamion> I can check
[06:25] <sivang> Kamion: that'd be nice, this was a ctually a major down side while offering people the warty install cds, most of them were left some free space on the drive but the regular st,d partitionin scheme had been all or nothing and people didn't want to tinker more with it, so they just gave up the installation altogether.
[06:26] <Kamion> warty certainly didn't have that
[06:26] <Kamion> the partitioning changes for warty were kind of hurried
[06:30] <Kamion> sivang: just tested, works fine for me
[06:30] <Kamion> although it should really reuse existing swap partitions rather than creating a new one, but shrug
[06:44] <sivang> Kamion: ok, great :)
[07:06] <zyga> Kamion: I can help with polish translations for base and installer 
[07:06] <zyga> Kamion: and shadow if that's something important
[07:20] <Kamion> zyga: Polish is sorted now thanks to opi, I think; but thanks
[07:22] <zyga> Kamion: right
[07:26] <lamont> hrm.. serving size on girl scout cookies (samoas) is 2 cookies.  Who eats just 2?
[07:27] <schweeb> lamont: are they made out of real girl scouts? </adams family>
[07:28] <lamont> schweeb: no.  nor real samoans
[07:29] <lamont> beef sausage pizza, OTOH, is made with real vegitarians
[07:29] <schweeb> *cough* vegetarians 
[07:29] <lamont> cows are too vegitarians
[07:30] <schweeb> herbivorous :)
[07:30] <lamont> yeah. same thing
[07:37] <zyga> lamont: whaaat?
[07:54] <lamont> zyga: huh?
[07:58] <zyga> lamont: beef sausage pizza....
[07:59] <ogra> zyga, whats wrong with that ? lamont is right...
[07:59] <zyga> ogra: it may be perfectly fine - I just don't get it ;] 
[08:00] <ogra> zyga, most vegetarian food isnt made of vegitarians, but most non vegetarian food (meat) is...
[08:02] <zyga> ;-)
[08:02] <ogra> zyga, its a joke (a _very_ good on, i laughed a lot, kudos lamont)
[08:02] <ogra> s/on/one
[08:02] <zyga> python is nice but I'm worried about putting too much stuff dependant on py code
[08:02] <zyga> especially system stuff
[08:03] <ogra> zyga, wait until we rewrote the kernel in py ;)
[08:03] <zyga> ogra: you did hear about perl live cd where everything except the kernel was written in perl?
[08:04] <herve> ogra, I think a project is doing so
[08:04] <ogra> oh, no i didnt
[08:04] <zyga> ogra: but the real issue is that - when python breaks lot's of independent programs break
[08:04] <ogra> herve, yeah, there are weird people around ;)
[08:04] <zyga> some time ago I was doing an upgrade from warty to hoary
[08:04] <herve> hmm... as does the libc or any runtime
[08:04] <zyga> and (my fault) I broke python
[08:05] <zyga> I was really dissapointed when I noticed how much stuff stopped working
[08:05] <zyga> do you think it would be sane to keep /usr/sys-local/python around?
[08:06] <zyga> and tweak various system tools to try either one ?
[08:06] <zyga> think of it as 'static' binaries kept just in case
[09:37] <_d4vid> hi all
[09:42] <trulux|working> anyone has a sparc machine to give me access to? I need to work on libssp portability
[09:47] <zyga> trulux|working: I've got access to a sparc box but it doesn't have linux on it
[09:47] <LeeJunFan> what would be dd'ing /proc/kmsg to /var/run/kmsg when I insert a DVD that's causing my CPU to max for long periods of time because it can't read the blank DVD?
[09:48] <zyga> trulux|working: It's at my university (available after passing thru a bunch of other boxes)
[09:50] <trulux|working> zyga: what OS is running on it?
[09:51] <doko> trulux|working: ask fabbione
[09:51] <trulux|working> doko: oh, ok, thanks
[09:52] <trulux|working> doko: the gcc-*-hardened packages will be wrappers or profiles, I'm designing the stuff to make you feeling proud
[09:52] <trulux|working> doko: instead of overheading maintenance for us
[09:52] <trulux|working> with gcc-3.4-ssp and the other goodies
[09:52] <trulux|working> doko: just doing a digram of it
[09:52] <trulux|working> diagram
[09:53] <zyga> trulux|working: I'll check - some ancient solaris
[09:53] <doko> trulux|working: sounds fine, and what about the upstream integration work? ;-)
[09:54] <trulux|working> doko: ported most of the SSP to 4.0
[09:54] <trulux|working> doko: http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/patches/gcc-4.0/
[09:54] <trulux|working> ;)
[09:54] <zyga> trulux|working: on it now ;] 
[09:54] <trulux|working> zyga: solaris... hah :)
[09:55] <zyga> hmm
[09:55] <zyga> w8 something is wrong ... not yet on 
[09:55] <trulux|working> zyga: Welcome to SunOS 6.1.3 - If you are still not 0wned, then it's not SunOS
[09:57] <zyga> trulux|working: damn the box is down - still checking thoug
[09:57] <zyga> I've got a bunch of alphas if you'd like ;] 
[09:58] <zyga> damn something must have struck the computer room
[09:58] <zyga> out of a dozen boxes only few are up
[09:58] <zyga> hehe
[09:58] <zyga> but sr2201 (16 cpu risc) *is* up
[10:00] <zyga> trulux|working: I'll keep bashing sun for a while - I'll let you know if it's up
[10:01] <zyga> trulux|working: if you'd like I can get you some old sparc boxes for a few bucks
[10:02] <zyga> trulux|working: or you can buy one yourself ;] 
[10:02] <zyga> trulux|working: I'll bet there are plenty in some warehouses / ebay
[10:08] <trulux|working> zyga: in Spain, sparc's are not that common, even in hospitals
[10:08] <ogra> infinity, ping
[10:10] <zyga> trulux|working: cheepest one I've found was for something like 160 PLN (4.12 PLN = 1 Euro)
[10:11] <zyga> trulux|working: no hdd, 128MB, net, graphics card
[10:11] <zyga> trulux|working: 300Mhz sparc 
[10:11] <zyga> trulux|working: besides crappy ram It's pretty good IMHO ;] 
[10:12] <zyga> (for testing and such of course)
[10:17] <trulux|working> zyga: the shipping costs many
[10:18] <zyga> trulux|working: for 190 you'll get 4GB scsi hdd
[10:18] <zyga> trulux|working: hmm well spain is far away from poland ;-] 
[10:18] <trulux|working> ;)
[10:19] <zyga> trulux|working: but you should check any local ebay of yours 
[10:19] <trulux|working> btw, I might take a look on php5 packages, just for fun
[10:19] <zyga> trulux|working: in poland it's called 'allegro'
[10:19] <trulux|working> I will
[10:19] <zyga> http://www.allegro.pl/show_item.php?item=46255389
[10:19] <zyga> if you need that crappy sun anyway ;] 
[10:20] <mdke> ping jdub
[10:21] <ogra> mdke, i guess .au is asleep
[10:21] <zyga> ogra: different time zones are annoying aren't they ;] 
[10:22] <ogra> zyga, you get used to the delay in conversations ;) backlog is a wonderful thing :)
[10:23] <zyga> ogra: backlog?
[10:23] <mdke> ogra, ok
[10:23] <mdke> hi
[10:24] <mdke> perhaps he is travelling or something
[10:25] <zyga> trulux|working: with home delivery I can get sun box for 50 euro
[10:28] <ogra> zyga, yeah, you can adjust your irc clinet to log a certain amount of lines to have a long scrollback, then you can get the info what was said during the last few hours...
[10:29] <zyga> ogra: ah... now I get it
[10:32] <zyga> hmm
[10:32] <zyga> things you can learn each day
[10:32] <zyga> from man df on hp-ux
[10:32] <zyga>      -k   Causes the numbers to be reported in kilobytes.  By
[10:32] <zyga>           default, all reported numbers are in 1024-byte blocks.
[10:32] <zyga> That's sure different ;] 
[10:32] <zyga> hehe
[10:51] <froud-away> Mitario: new updates done for update-manager. More coming in the morning.
[10:55] <zyga> froud-away: what updates are those?
[11:08] <opi> Kamion, just a note: sorry, the last part will be in your mailbox in a morning
[11:08] <opi> Kamion, I was to busy, playing soccer to do it on time :-)
[11:08] <zyga> mvo: ping?
[11:09] <opi> Kamion, OK, I'm going to bed now 
[11:10] <dholbach> zyga: he's not here
[11:12] <opi> zyga, hi and bye :)
[11:12] <zyga> opi: hi and good night :)
[11:14] <trulux|working> done: http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/misc/ubuntu-hardened-schema.png
[11:16] <zyga> trulux|working: mama mia, that's a spicy graph ;] 
[11:20] <trulux|working> zyga: ;)
[11:20] <trulux|working> zyga: added legend, reload
[11:22] <zyga> trulux|working: just a note: the colors you've chose are a poor combination for laptop displays 
[11:23] <zyga> trulux|working: if I look hard enough they differ - but at a glance they look the same
[11:23] <zyga> trulux|working: that's a really nice graph for people that know what it means :)
[11:25] <trulux|working> zyga: :(, I didn't do it on my laptop
[11:26] <trulux|working> I'm now on the dumb fast box
[11:26] <trulux|working> ;)
[11:26] <trulux|working> I need to have *many* things working at same time ;)
[11:26] <zyga> trulux|working: post svg, people will manage ;] 
[11:26] <trulux|working> the svg? sure
[11:26] <zyga> trulux|working: as do I, ssh is great here ;] 
[11:28] <trulux|working> zyga: http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/misc/ubuntu-hardened-schema.svg
[11:29] <zyga> got it
[11:29] <zyga> those big blue texts are needed or is it just inkscape playing dumb?
[11:51] <trulux|working> hey, what gcc will be used in breezy? gcc-3.4, or gcc-4.0?
[11:51] <zyga> trulux|working: AFAIK 4.0 but I may be wrong
[11:52] <trulux|working> it's just that I have around more than the half done for porting SSP/ProPolice to 4.0
[11:52] <trulux|working> and I want to know how much time I have to finnish it
[11:53] <zyga> trulux|working: for breezy? a lot ;] 
[11:55] <zyga> trulux|working: why are you afraid you can run out of time?
[11:56] <trulux|working> zyga: my holidays finnish in 2 days
[11:56] <trulux|working> zyga: It means, no more trulux on steroids
[11:56] <trulux|working> zyga: no more trulux "the larry work mule"
[11:56] <trulux|working> etc
[11:57] <zyga> trulux|working: breezy won't be released for a while since hoary isn't released yet ...
[11:57] <zyga> trulux|working: or are you targetting hoary?
[11:57] <adobbie> holidays in March?
[11:57] <zyga> adobbie: yup
[11:57] <zyga> adobbie: wielkanoc 
[11:59] <trulux|working> zyga: breezy
[11:59] <trulux|working> zyga: but my work is also available for hoary
[11:59] <zyga> trulux|working: then you've got nothing to worry about IMHO - but ask someone with more ubuntu background