[12:00] <trulux|working> hehe
=== trulux|working working on targeted policy
=== zyga spending my time in the idle loop
[12:01] <zyga> :] 
[12:04] <trulux|working> zyga: that's good for watching porn :P
[12:06] <zyga> trulux|working: idle loop sounds better in log files ;] 
[12:06] <zyga> trulux|working: actually I'm learning python 
[12:06] <zyga> trulux|working: I'm a hard C fan and python is what I do on holidays 
[12:07] <adobbie> C can be a pain in the ass sometimes
[12:08] <zyga> adobbie: and all the 'nice' features can be an equal pain if sometimes you need to circumvent them 
[12:08] <ogra> hmm, wondering what Kamion will say if thes gets sucked in by the big apt-get.org inclusion http://kitenet.net/~joey/debian/unstable/
[12:09] <ogra> s/thes/this
[12:10] <ogra> lots of installer stuff...
[12:10] <herve> it's Joey Hess' personal repository
[12:10] <ogra> yop
[12:10] <ogra> on apt-get.org
[12:10] <herve> I know :-)
[12:10] <adobbie> zyga: if some language is restricting me then I might use C code for the trouble spot
[12:11] <adobbie> otherwise I get things done faster with higher level stuff
[12:11] <adobbie> ironically I've been doing assembly only for the past 3 months :)
[12:12] <zyga> adobbie: I fully agree ;] 
[12:12] <zyga> adobbie: then it's the moment you realize that anything but C seems tho be restricting you ;] 
[12:13] <trulux|working> zyga: just kidding on porn, anyways, I don't care if it gets logged, we all know I'm a suspect of doing perverse actions
=== trulux|working grins like a pyscho
[12:13] <trulux|working> psycho
[12:13] <adobbie> I find doing sockets in C more painful than Java
[12:13] <trulux|working> :)
[12:13] <trulux|working> adobbie: really?
[12:13] <herve> no kidding :-)
[12:14] <zyga> adobbie: java is way too verbose and now that I had to learn java bytecode way more ugly ;] 
[12:14] <zyga> adobbie: (not that I mentioned sockets)
[12:15] <zyga> adobbie: I C anything is equally pain in the ass as long as you are reinventing the wheel - try to write regular expression pattern matcher i perl from scratch ;-)
[12:15] <adobbie> if you are making something complicated it's often faster to work at more abstract level
[12:16] <zyga> adobbie: true, but that doesn't have to be another language
[12:16] <adobbie> but I hate UML and CASE :)
[12:18] <zyga> adobbie: and besides if you are doing some real world non-oss work most stuff (with java as a notable exception) can be ignored cause 'we have to keep the source code to ourselvs' approach is still there :P
[12:18] <zyga> and that sucks alot
[12:18] <adobbie> if you tow RMS' line on working on software you'll never work on such stuff :)
[12:19] <adobbie> better to be unemployed than write non-free software
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[12:20] <zyga> adobbie: fortunatly I've just downloaded MS FreeWill ver 1.0
[12:20] <zyga> hehe
[12:20] <zyga> Once you agree to an EULA you can do WhateverYouWhish (tm)
[12:21] <adobbie> hahah
[12:21] <adobbie> I've got loads of non-free "evil" software on my system that I like
[12:22] <adobbie> Adobe Acrobat 7, Matlab, and Java, to name a few
=== dholbach can't stop asking himself how much of this is #u-d related...
[12:22] <zyga> I've got ati's crappy drivers and valid-in-eu mp3 support
[12:22] <adobbie> not to mention codecs...
[12:22] <zyga> oh and win32-codecs and libcss ;] 
[12:22] <ogra> yeah, looks _very_ offtopic here
[12:22] <adobbie> codecs which you need for a desktop which are difficult to distribute
[12:23] <zyga> adobbie: codecs really suck... 
[12:23] <adobbie> which comes back to Ubuntu, is it easy to add non-free codecs to Ubuntu?
[12:23] <adobbie> for newbie users I mean
[12:23] <dholbach> there's a wiki page
[12:23] <zyga> adobbie: what will we do in 10 years if microsoft will be still 32bit?
[12:24] <adobbie> zyga: Windows XP 64bit is in a semi-usable state now
[12:24] <mdke> is anyone running an ubuntu system willing to do me a quick favour?
[12:24] <ogra> and this belongs to #ubuntu, please keep it there
[12:24] <dholbach> mdke: fire away
[12:24] <mdke> hi daniel
[12:24] <mdke> thanks
[12:24] <ogra> mdke, go on
[12:24] <mdke> i'll go to PM
[12:24] <zyga> adobbie: oh that's different from 32bit version how ;-) ?
[12:24] <ogra> zyga, is this development related anyhow ?
[12:24] <zyga> ogra: right -> #ubuntu
[12:25] <dholbach> zyga: thanks
[12:25] <ogra> thanks
[12:25] <ogra> (you culd also open #ubuntu-philosophical *g*)
[12:25] <herve> #ubuntu-bar :-)
[12:26] <ogra> yeah
[12:26] <adobbie> ogra: how about #ubuntu-legal? ;)
[12:26] <schweeb> #not-ubuntu-devel
[12:26] <mdke> lol
[12:27] <ogra> adobbie, open it :)
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[12:27] <zyga> @ubuntu-devel-coffebreak
[12:27] <zyga> s/@/#/
[12:27] <ogra> adobbie, and get some lawyers involved....we could really need them
[12:27] <adobbie> ogra: I don't need another channel simply to have a place to disagree with people, I've too many of those already
[12:28] <mdke> i like the idea of ubuntu-legal
[12:28] <ogra> adobbie, but disagreement is the profession of lawyers, isnt it ?
[12:28] <adobbie> mdke: debian-devel list makes me shake my head in disgust enough as it is
[12:28] <herve> adobbie, s/devel/legal ?
[12:28] <adobbie> errr
[12:28] <adobbie> legal
[12:29] <adobbie> herve: guess I'm done for today :)
[12:38] <mdke> does ubuntu have a legal team?
[12:38] <mdke> perhaps not
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[12:53] <trulux|working> hey tritium 
[12:53] <trulux|working> ajmitch: there?
[12:53] <tritium> hi trulux|working 
[01:00] <trulux|working> Standards-Version: 3.5.2 <- isn't it a bit outdated?
[01:01] <herve> quite yes
[01:03] <adobbie> "Write error: Success opening remote file"
[01:03] <ogra> yeah, success is always great
[01:03] <adobbie> indeed
[01:04] <adobbie> I thought it was rather simple to check if you have errno 0 before you did anything like perror()
[01:04] <mdke> dholbach, ping
[01:04] <dholbach> mdke: pong
[01:04] <mdke> brilliant
[01:04] <dholbach> mdke: are you testing reply times or what? ;-)
[01:04] <mdke> you wouldn't let me know the version of libatm1 in hoary? i'm trying to get a user to download the right ones manually
[01:05] <mdke> dholbach, yeah that too, keep by your computer at all times
[01:05] <dholbach> mdke: Version: 2.4.1-16
[01:05] <mdke> genius thanks
[01:05] <dholbach> de rien
[01:10] <mdke> dholbach, ping *looks at watch*
[01:10] <mdke> also speedtouch?
[01:10] <mdke> sorrrrrry
[01:10] <dholbach> mdke: pong
[01:10] <dholbach> mdke: whatsup?
[01:11] <dholbach> mdke: 1.3.1-1
[01:11] <mdke> wicked thanks
[01:11] <mdke> sorry to disturb, that's the last time
[01:12] <dholbach> mdke: http://higgs.djpig.de/ubuntu/www/hoary/net/speedtouch
[01:12] <dholbach> ;-)
[01:12] <mdke> omg
[01:12] <mdke> youre a genius
[01:13] <dholbach> mdke: hey, it's 1) not my page, 2) not the package i packaged 3) not the software i wrote :-)
[01:13] <trulux|working> dholbach: I haven't got such message even doing the SELinux I've been doing the past two days, so, just take it and don't say it's not yours ;D
[01:14] <mdke> lol
[01:14] <mdke> genius to have given me that url
[01:14] <trulux|working> herve: what standards version should I use?
[01:14] <dholbach> trulux|working: hrm?
[01:14] <dholbach> trulux|working: dpkg -l debian-policy
[01:14] <herve> trulux|working, 3.6.1 is the standard
[01:14] <herve> but make sure the package conforms to it :-D
[01:16] <adobbie> 3.6.1.1 is what Debian sarge has
[01:16] <dholbach> adobbie: the last .1 is just for spelling mistakes and isn't checked
[01:22] <adobbie> I burned myself with boiling water again and it really hurts this time
[01:23] <herve> you're supposed to pour it in a glass or a mug, not your skin :-)
[01:24] <adobbie> this time it was a mispour
[01:24] <adobbie> two weeks ago I put my finger right into it
[01:24] <adobbie> broke my teapot
[01:24] <adobbie> that's going to reduce my productivity
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[03:02] <dholbach> good night
[03:02] <mdke> night :)
[03:02] <mdke> thanks again
[03:03] <dholbach> it was my pleasure :-)
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[03:52] <blueyed> Hi. Does anybody know the password of the Live CD "ubuntu" user? I had to reboot, because I've tried "Lock screen" without changing the password at first.
[03:52] <blueyed> I think it should default to "ubuntu".
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[03:58] <ogra> blueyed, there is no password, it is a known bug we still have to solve...
[03:58] <blueyed> ah ogra, the bug then is that it says "entering password" canceled when you try it with an empty one.
[03:59] <ogra> (likely by removing the lock unctionallity)
[03:59] <blueyed> I'm glad you know about it already. I'm fascinated by your work! Thank you.
[03:59] <ogra> :) youre welcome
=== mdke looks at ogra, then at watch
[04:00] <mdke> 4 am...
[04:00] <mdke> ;)
[04:00] <ogra> yeah, time for bed :)
[04:01] <mdke> heh
[04:01] <mdke> i can't sleep when south park is on tv
=== ogra has his last cigarette
[04:01] <ogra> mdke, battlestar galactica here, but i wont survive it...
[04:01] <mdke> lol
[04:02] <mdke> only 3 am here i have that advantage
[04:02] <tseng> ogra: mmm, battlestar
[04:02] <ogra> tseng, yeah, a movie of my childhood
[04:02] <tseng> ogra: new or old?
[04:02] <ogra> old
[04:02] <tseng> ah.
[04:03] <tseng> if you didnt watch the new series, its very good
[04:03] <ogra> i didtnt even know there is a new one
[04:03] <tseng> yep. it was on skyone in england and now in the us on scifi channel
[04:04] <ogra> ah, so germany will get it probably next year
[04:04] <tseng> it was actually filmed in canada for scifi, not sure how it made it to the uk
[04:05] <ogra> but anyways, i'm off to bed, GF is waiting...
[04:05] <tseng> rock!
[04:06] <tseng> have a good one.
[04:06] <mdke> at 4 am?
[04:06] <mdke> she's asleep...
[04:06] <ogra> she went to bed 10mins ago
[04:06] <mdke> whoa
[04:06] <mdke> is she a linux developer too?
[04:06] <ogra> nah, just a little crazy webdesigner
[04:06] <ogra> night all :)
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[05:48] <Mitario> hi everyone
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[06:21] <fabbione> morning
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[06:22] <fabbione> mjg59: thanks for the patch but that will be for breezy
[06:22] <fabbione> no more patch for hoary
[06:22] <fabbione> ECHAN
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[08:01] <zenwhen> grabbed todays daily and updated
[08:01] <zenwhen> everything looks good here
[08:04] <zenwhen> wait, I lied
[08:04] <zenwhen> I tried to add a panel item and all of my panel items on all panels were deleted
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[08:55] <Burgundavia> jdub: ping
[09:07] <Burgundavia> jdub: never mind
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[10:10] <dholbach> gooood morning
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[10:59] <froud> African Greetings
[11:00] <dholbach> greetings to south africa *wave*
=== froud waves back
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[11:05] <froud> Mitario: ping
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[11:55] <kagou> hi
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[12:11] <jessica_> My girlfriends computer is plagued by an instable Ubuntu. It looks like I'm having kernel Oopses (hoary, 2.6.10-5-386). On mailinglist I heard i needed to give output of dmesg, but the system doesn't respond after crashing. Does anyone have a minute? What info should I give? I do have a kernel.log.0 which seems to be the one of crashtime...
[12:13] <crimsun> jessica_: please ask in #ubuntu, thanks.  :)
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[12:17] <jessica_> well, this looks like a bug... but I'll try
[12:17] <Lathiat> jessica_: #ubuntu is still the right place :)
[12:17] <jessica_> ok, thanks
[12:17] <Lathiat> jessica_: this is more for discussion between developers and stuff like that
[12:17] <davyd> Lathiat: so why are you here? ;)
[12:17] <jessica_> ok, no problem. I asked it there once, but it was not really seen because everybody was screaming there was no msn(tm) on Ubuntu
[12:17] <davyd> or me?
=== davyd wonders why he is here
[12:18] <davyd> why are we here, are we unique, or are with an example of something that is common in the universe?
[12:22] <Amaranth> yay, python-xdg ignores user created menus!
[12:23] <crimsun> awesome.
[12:23] <crimsun> completely ignores?  Is there a method of "refreshing?"
[12:25] <Amaranth> not that i'm aware of
[12:25] <Lathiat> davyd: to observe those that are far cooler than i :)
[12:25] <Amaranth> it shows up fine in the gnome menu
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[01:30] <apokryphos> Just as a note: the Wiki FrontPage is down. Unless it's down for maintenance, someone has deleted it.
[01:33] <kain> ic
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[02:14] <dexem> Hi! I'm having troubles with nautilus 2.10 (hoary). I have some nautilus scripts, but environment variables are not correctly set up by nautilus. NAUTILUS_SCRIPT_SELECTED_URIS is correctly set, but NAUTILUS_SCRIPT_SELECTED_FILE_PATHS is blank.... any idea about what could be happening? maybe a package compilation problem? I haven't found any reference...
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[02:53] <dholbach> see you later
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[02:59] <Chand> hi
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[03:09] <opi> Kamion, hope you got the .diff
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[04:11] <zul> hey
[04:14] <sjmorgan> hi
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[04:23] <zyga> hey everyone
[04:28] <tseng> hm why does libdbus-cil depend on libc6-dev
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[04:41] <blueyed> Is the bug with Synaptic known where an added custom repository does not appear until you start the packet manager dialog again?
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[05:02] <OpaH> I have a Toshiba Tecra 780DVD with an S3Virge Video Card - unfortunately, it only runs on 'vesa' UseFBDev
[05:02] <Chand> hi
[05:03] <Chand> did latest hoary kernel fixe ibook g4 resume issue ?
[05:03] <OpaH> If I have no known way of telling the HW-Detect to stay off the S3Virge code, it goes into psychedelic mode, ans looses both the X as well as the Character-consoles
[05:04] <zul> Chand: it should i think
[05:04] <zul> Chand: i dont do ppc though
[05:05] <Chand> this bug can be closed https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7464
[05:05] <OpaH> This wouldn't bother me much - IF I had sshd up and running at the time - so that I could go & fix xorg.conf
[05:05] <Chand> and this https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6977 is the same
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[05:28] <abelli> happy easter everybody
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[05:38] <abelli> hey ppl why does gnome-menus depends on kdelibs-data?
[05:39] <zyga> abelli: as far as I can see they REPLACE them
[05:39] <amu> amu@ppc:~ $ apt-cache rdepends gnome-menus
[05:39] <amu> gnome-menus
[05:39] <amu> Reverse Depends:
[05:39] <amu>   ubuntu-desktop
[05:39] <amu>   gnome-panel
[05:43] <abelli> amu: right, i was dist-upgrading with aptitude and i noticed it was trying to install kdebase-data and kdelibs-data ... i don't know why i turned (ahhh right i was speaking with opi) to synaptic, then under "dependecies" it says that gnome-menus  depends on kdelibs-data
[05:43] <amu> abelli: you mean kdelibs-data depends on gnome-menu? 
[05:44] <amu> abelli: it's because of the "menu" kde uses the same package as gnome uses
[05:45] <abelli> mmm so why is my system trying to install kdelibs-data and kdebase?
[05:45] <abelli> no qt in here.
[05:47] <zenwhen> <-- theres one qt in here
[05:48] <zenwhen> ;)
[05:48] <abelli> zenwhen: dehiho ... doh.
[05:50] <zenwhen> bringing home a freshly downloaded daily install disk and updating every week is like a weekly birthday present
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[05:50] <amu> abelli: good question, what happens if you remove them ?
[05:52] <abelli> they get removed rightly (or at least i think so), but then if i try to dist-upgrade .. here they come again.
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[06:18] <sid77> hi
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[06:41] <trulux> mdz: ping
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[07:07] <fabbione> elmo: ping?
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[08:02] <zul> hey fabbione 
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[08:52] <srbaker> anyone know what the status of eclipse packages for hoary is?
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[09:22] <Seveas> srbaker, check the wiki on java
[09:23] <srbaker> cool
[09:23] <srbaker> thanks
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[09:31] <Lathiat> bugzilla defiantely needs some way to attach more than one file at once
[09:31] <Lathiat> so you dont spam people with 4 emails when attaching a few files and then another one for the realtive comment
[09:31] <zul> Lathiat: put your things in a tarball or something
[09:32] <Lathiat> point
[09:32] <Lathiat> didnt think about that
[09:32] <Lathiat> makes it harder to view as part of a bug tho
[09:32] <Lathiat> for like screenshots and stuff
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=== Lathiat swears at gamin
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[09:49] <seb128> Lathiat: does that work fine if you killall gam_server nautilus ?
[09:49] <Lathiat> yeh
[09:49] <Lathiat> does actually
[09:50] <seb128> that's a dup of some open bugs
[09:50] <Lathiat> ah ok
[09:50] <Lathiat> sorry for spamming your inbox :)
[09:50] <seb128> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7078
[09:51] <seb128> that's the bug for the gamin issues
[09:51] <seb128> np for the spam :p
[09:51] <seb128> I'm closing it as a dup if that's fine with you
[09:51] <Lathiat> yeh sure
[09:52] <Lathiat> seb128: any idea what the decision about re-enabling new inotiy was?
[09:52] <seb128> not for hoary
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[09:52] <Lathiat> rightio
[09:52] <Lathiat> i tried booting with inotify yesterday
[09:52] <dholbach> hey
[09:52] <Lathiat> lots of scary kernel backtraces :(
[09:52] <seb128> works fine ?
[09:52] <Lathiat> wanted to get beagle to work heh
[09:52] <seb128> so not using it for hoary is a good idea :p
[09:53] <Lathiat> yeh
[09:53] <zul> you dont need inotify for beagule apparently
[09:53] <seb128> hi dholbach 
[09:53] <Lathiat> i also lost about 90GB of data shortly after
[09:53] <Lathiat> i hope to god that wasnt inotifys fault :P
[09:53] <dholbach> hey seb128! :-)
[09:53] <seb128> works better with inotify probably though
[09:53] <Lathiat> but just my firewire being dodgy and offlining my disk sfar too much
[09:53] <Lathiat> yeh it does
[09:53] <Lathiat> half the stuff doesnt work without it
[09:53] <Lathiat> all its indexing atm are my RSS feeds and email
[09:53] <Lathiat> no gaim logs etc
=== Lathiat wonders as to the progress of moving dbus apps to the new apis, like hal etc
[09:55] <Lathiat> bit of a sticker atm :\
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[10:36] <Lathiat> seb128: ping
[10:39] <seb128> pong
[10:47] <Lathiat> seb128: what did you think about disabling detachable toolbars by default?
[10:49] <zul> bbl
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[10:50] <seb128> Lathiat: why ?
[10:51] <Lathiat> well since theyre broken, unless its fixed ?
[10:52] <seb128> good idea, just drop whatever is broken instead of fixing bugs
[10:52] <Lathiat> heh
[10:52] <ogra> wow, yeah, then our job gets really easy
[10:52] <Lathiat> point taken :>
[10:52] <Lathiat> i was just thinking more hoary release wise
[10:53] <ogra> the system will be a bit spartan after a while though....
[10:53] <seb128> we have one bug in month about that, I don't think that's an issue for a lot of users
[10:54] <Lathiat> im digging around trying to figure out the problem atm, but i havent looked at any of this code before so its not going so well, heh
[10:55] <seb128> that's a libbonoboui apparently, good luck :p
[10:56] <Lathiat> haha yeh
[10:57] <Lathiat> wow its 5am
[10:57] <Lathiat> where did the night go
[10:58] <zyga> Lathiat: here, it's 11pm
[10:58] <Lathiat> hehe
[10:59] <Lathiat> on sunday night or monday night?
[10:59] <Lathiat> actually has to be sunday
[10:59] <Lathiat> cus im GMT+8 so any further ahead is 4 hours so max time it could be anywhere is like midday monday, i think
[10:59] <Lathiat> 8:30 probably
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[11:06] <zenwhen> Hey Devs
[11:06] <zyga> Lathiat: sunday 
[11:06] <zenwhen> How well do you think Ubuntu will respond to switching from an i865 based board to an i875P based board without a reinstall?
[11:08] <zenwhen> The chipsets and related hardware are quite close to one another, but I think the i865 board I am using now is on the fritz. I apologize if I am taking advantage of the vast bae of knowledge in here when I should be posing this in #ubuntu.
[11:14] <Lathiat> hmm theres some nasty looking comments in these files :P
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[11:20] <Mitario> hello everyone
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