haggaiapokryphos: thanks for the mail12:04
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apokryphosNo problem; I think my bias comes through too much in naming advantages for each ;)12:08
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motaboyHi to all!01:09
motaboyI've got a little packaging question.01:10
motaboyThe original source of kdebluetooth is a tar.bz2 called kdebluetooth-1.0_beta1.tar.bz201:10
motaboyit will create a dir called  kdebluetooth-1.0_beta1/01:11
motaboythat has already its debian dir inside. I have to change it to ubuntutize ad to fix some things.01:11
motaboyHow can I proceed?01:12
motaboydh_make gives errors as the directory name is wrong because there's an "_" between 1.0 and beta1.01:13
haggaihi motaboy01:25
haggaiprobably the best thing to do is to remove the debian directory completely, rename the directory and then create a new .orig.tar01:25
haggaiyou need to change the version anyway because you need a version number less than 1.001:26
haggaie.g. 0.99+1.0beta101:26
datoah, ~ is not allowed in Ubuntu?01:26
haggaidato: there are still broken packaging tools, e.g. libtool so its not a good idea to use yet01:27
amumoin' all 01:27
apokryphosdato: sure it is.01:27
apokryphosmorning amu :)01:27
haggaiamu: hey how about you test packages before uploading them? :)01:27
amuhaggai: ;) do it all time, what happens ? 01:28
haggaiamu: kde-i18n.  1. Empty packages  2. dpkg-buildpackage -b ; dpkg-buildpackage -S does not work01:28
haggais/does not/did not/01:29
motaboyhaggai: thanks. So it's not right to have 1.0beta1?01:29
haggaimotaboy: no because apt will think that 1.0 < 1.0beta101:29
haggaimotaboy: thanks for looking at the bluetooth stuff.  I have bluetooth stuff (usb dongle, 2 phones, headset) and would be glad to test it for you01:30
motaboyhaggai: ok. so I understand that apt interpretes everithying like a string? so your suggested 0.99+1.0beta1 si right?01:31
motaboyhaggai: :D01:31
haggaimotaboy: the rules are more complicated than just a string01:32
=== motaboy is trying to find a docs where these rules are documented.
haggaimotaboy: you can use dpkg --compare-versions to test01:33
haggaimotaboy: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version01:34
haggai"The upstream_version and debian_revision parts are compared by the package management system using the same algorithm:"01:34
motaboyhaggai: thanks a lot :D01:34
haggaino probs01:34
amuhaggai: ARG, checked them, but didnt found any empty packaged. see @buildd:/home/kde-3.4/hoary/home/tom/debs  01:36
motaboyhaggai: another question... what's the command to generate only the .dsc file without compiling.01:36
amumotaboy: debuild -S 01:43
motaboyamu: Thanks!01:45
haggaiamu: but do you see now that they were in fact empty?01:48
haggai-rw-r--r--   1 jr jr      7194 2005-03-24 20:44 kde-i18n-de_3.4.0-0ubuntu1_all.deb01:48
amumotaboy: we have a special #ubuntu-motu for packaging, you could join there peolpe are very helpfull  01:54
motaboyamu: ok:D01:55
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amuhaggai: sorry my mistake02:31
haggaiamu: seems my upload is broken too :)02:32
haggaiamu: how is kdesdk?02:35
amucontinue with it today02:38
Riddellwhat should I do today?02:39
haggaiamu: you need a cdbs/kde.mk update02:39
haggaihey Riddell02:39
haggaiwhich of you two was telling me about removing libmad stuff from main?02:39
Riddellwasnae me02:40
haggaiamu: was it you?02:40
haggaior was it mdz02:40
haggaiRiddell: can you look at the seeds situation?  We need to make a decision about what else needs to go into main02:41
haggaiRiddell: oh, and the kdesu stuff02:42
haggaiRiddell: it's still prompting for root's pwd, and it isn't always working properly02:42
Riddellgtk-qt-engine is something I think we want in our seeds but I havn't looked at it, will do so now02:44
Riddellneed to look at tidying up kdesu, will do that too02:44
Riddelldon't know how to stop it asking for a root password since changing the string means  it won't be translated into all the languages...02:44
RiddellI could have it give the correct string in English and ask for root password in any other language, or just ask in English for everyone02:45
Riddelloh we need to check with Kamion if he's done anything about installing i18n packs from debian-installer02:45
haggaihow about putting the string into Rosetta?02:45
Riddelldaf said everything will get put into rosetta automatically at some point, but I don't think putting it in right now will mean it'll get translated much in the next two weeks02:46
Riddellwell, 1.5 weeks02:46
haggaiwell it is only 1 string02:50
haggaidaf is away at the moment but it might be worth asking02:51
Riddellhaggai: that's the trouble, it's a lot of trouble for one string, I'll ask02:55
amuhaggai: guess it was mdz 03:01
haggai+pkgstriptranslations: processing control file: ./debian/kde-i18n-ar/DEBIAN/control, package kde-i18n-ar, directory ./debian/kde-i18n-ar03:46
haggai+/build/buildd/kde-i18n-3.4.0/debian/kde-i18n-ar /build/buildd/kde-i18n-3.4.003:46
haggaithat is causing the langpacks to be smaller03:46
haggaiamu: wasn't pkgstriptranslations supposed to be overriden for kde-i18n?03:47
haggaiRiddell: what do you think about adding usb media icons to the desktop by default?03:50
amuhaggai: yep, pitti told me, that he blacklisted it03:51
Riddellhaggai: does ubuntu do it?  if so we should too03:51
haggaiRiddell: it does do it.  They did that because there isn't otherwise an easy way to unmount media before removing03:52
haggaiRiddell: I tried turning it on and it works very nicely.  It was one of the nice things I could demonstrate at cebit03:52
Riddellhaggai: I'll do that then, any other changes you think I should make to kubuntu-default-settings?03:53
=== haggai ponders
haggaithe transparency stuff is really nice but hard on slow machines.  Not sure if we can do a lot automatically03:54
haggaiwhat about #8058 and #8062?03:56
Riddellno "Home" entry in the K-menu is because the Home entry is in the System menu03:57
haggaiah so that can be closed then?03:57
haggai8058: trash icon.  I guess ubuntu doesn't have the desktop icon?03:57
Riddell'too many "Trash" items on the desktop / panel'  I've removed the wastebin from the desktop03:57
haggaican you keep the bugs updated?  amu & I are finding it very hard to avoid duplicating your work when you do not keep things up to date03:58
Riddellit should be removed from System too, along with Settings loading KControl rather than settings:/03:58
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Riddellyep, will try harder, is there an easy way to find all kubuntu related bugzilla entries?03:59
haggaiyup, search for kubuntu keyword03:59
haggaiand if you're doing non-bugzilla stuff at least say here which package you are touching04:00
Riddellyep, just uploaded new gwenview04:00
haggai..before you touch it :)04:00
haggaiafter you upload it is easy to see what you did :)04:01
Riddellspose so :)04:01
apokryphoshaggai: That doesn't bring them all up; for example, using "kde" uncovers some more.04:03
haggaiapokryphos: in that case they need the kubuntu keyword to be added04:06
haggaiapokryphos: give me an example bug. I can't find any04:11
haggaiRiddell: personally I prefer my clock to be on the right hand side, not the trash can.  And the clock time font would be nice if it was a little bigger.  What do you think?04:12
haggaiRiddell: and do we really need the klipper icon?  Do you know poeple who actually use it?04:12
haggaiRiddell: what about moving klipper into the hidden section by default?04:13
Riddellhaggai: so systray, wastebin, clock?04:14
Riddellhaggai: I use klipper all the time for clipboard history04:14
Riddellhaggai: which size should clock font be set to?04:14
apokryphoshaggai: If you search for "kubuntu", for example, there's only one bug assigned to you. While, if you search "kde" there's three (though one is OOo).04:14
apokryphosand, 1 for amu in the first one, 8 in the "kde" search. :P04:15
haggaiapokryphos: the OOo bug is not kubuntu-specific.  What's the other one?04:15
haggaiapokryphos: are the amu bugs already resolved perhaps?04:16
apokryphosand, your other one is kdei1804:16
haggaiRiddell: I think I like 16, but 15 is better too if that's too big04:16
Riddellyep, 16 is good, it should be as large as it can be without making the space taken any wider04:17
haggaiapokryphos: ? please give me bug #s I can't find them04:17
apokryphoshaggai: you can just search for "kde" where it says "Enter a bug # or some search terms", but I'll get number anyhow04:18
haggaiapokryphos: I did already search for kde04:18
apokryphos#8277 and #830204:18
haggai8032 has kubuntu04:19
haggaiso does 827704:19
haggaithey both show up in my kubuntu keyword query04:19
Riddellhaggai: openoffice.org-kde still uses gnome icons?04:19
haggaiRiddell: not that I know of04:20
apokryphoshaggai: I promise I'm not going crazy, but I just redid a kubuntu search now, and those come up.04:20
=== apokryphos goes for a nap :/
haggaiapokryphos: heh :)04:20
=== froud wonders if apokryphos would like to help with kynaptic user manual?
Riddellhaggai: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/openofficekde.png04:21
haggaiRiddell: hmm, odd04:21
apokryphosfroud: kind of wondering what's to become of the whole kpackage vs. kynaptic :D04:22
apokryphosBut I'll help with it anyhow, sure.04:22
froudwell if you want to write something I have a first draft in progress04:22
froudsources can be gotten from 04:22
froudsvn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu/kynaptic04:23
apokryphosoh boy, more stuff to learn ;-). Only was just getting to grips with cvs and docbook :-o04:23
froudjust install subversion04:23
froudthen in the directory in which you want to make your working copy do svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu/kynaptic kynaptic04:24
froudfrom there its all docbook04:24
Riddellapokryphos: nobody will be using cvs by the end of the week (my predication for today)04:24
RiddellI wonder if we could get an svn respository like docteam have04:25
=== froud svn is better anyway
=== froud thinks it is a good ide
froudI was gonna put it in the Synpatic repos04:25
amuhaggai: usb media icons on the desktop? they appear automatic if the devices is pluged'in and if they are enabled by kcontrol04:25
froudbut nobody else can contribute easily to it04:26
haggaiamu: I am talking about whether to enable by default in kcontrol04:26
froudbrb. I have to go on a bread roll run. Hot dogs for dinner anybody04:27
Riddellamu: so we need to enable it by default04:27
amuhaggai: oh, sure it's a must04:27
apokryphosfroud: ok, got the stuff. Recommend I open them with anything other than konqueror/04:28
haggaiamu: didn't you say pkgstriptranslations is overriden for kde-i18n?  It is stripping them now :(04:28
motaboyamu: ping04:30
amuhaggai: probably a bug in pkgstriptransion, pitti said it's blacklisted, i'll contact him about04:33
haggaiamu: don't worry I'm reassigning the bug to him now04:34
=== Riddell locks kdebase to fix the text files opening in openoffice issue
haggaiRiddell: thanks04:35
apokryphosamu, Riddell: do you two have any thoughts on the kpackage vs. kynaptic issue?04:35
Riddellapokryphos: neither are very good but kynaptic is more usable for now.  what's the question?04:36
apokryphosI personally don't see how kpackage is unusable at all, but, explained in more detail: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2005-March/000168.html04:36
apokryphosI think I'd recommend kpackage to a newbie before kynaptic, certainly.04:37
RiddellI suspect Kapture is the future anyway04:38
haggaiwell if we're going to move away from synaptic anyway we mayaswell go with kpackage for this release?04:40
=== haggai tries to find info on kapture
apokryphosRiddell: never really heard of it apart from a few things04:40
apokryphosheh, same04:41
haggaiKapture is a package management system with assorted libraries, libcapture is Debain's frontend building toolkit, libkapture is a set of KDE widgets for libcapture. Planned frontend is a single package installer so you can just download and install a single .deb file. Kapture allows sorting and searching for applications, type KDE and CD and it will find all relevant applications for burning CDs. Kurrent is a simple KDE tool to keep the system up to date04:41
haggaicreated by Riddell04:41
Riddellhaggai: Kapture is made by Kalyxo, it's got a new apt interface library which synaptic is going to change to as well so it will have a similar relationship to synaptic as kynaptic does now04:43
Riddellwasnae created by me, where did you get that?04:43
haggaiRiddell: oohhh I had no idea about that04:43
haggaiRiddell: wiki page created by you04:43
amuRiddell: you know synaptic is maintained and developed my mvo ? 04:43
apokryphosMy thoughts: have kpackage as default for this release (it would be nice to have an advanced package manager, so newbies don't go installing gtk stuff just for synaptic), and you can see how kapture does in the future...04:44
Riddellamu: yep04:45
apokryphosThings like auto-grouping of packages is really handy04:47
amuRiddell: i think we should support software from ourself, if we drop kynapitc it will definitiv die04:49
haggaiamu: but that needs us to spend time on it instead of improving kubuntu as a whole04:49
froudapokryphos: it's xml it does not run under the browser04:50
RiddellI think arklinux uses kynaptic, I wonder if they've made any improvements04:50
apokryphosamu: Thing is, that can be said for many programs out there ;-). It sure does have potential, but shouldn't kubuntu be trying to use the best available?04:50
apokryphosfroud: yup, sorry, momentary lapse. Reading it in kate.04:50
froudapokryphos: you running kate then you have an xml mode04:50
amuhaggai: it should not done by use, there are many free softwarefighters, also mvo invest some time on it, it would be bad, dropping it04:51
froudapokryphos: edit in kate, save, then svn up04:51
froudapokryphos: and then svn status04:51
froudapokryphos: then svn diff kynaptic.xml > kynaptic.xml.diff04:52
froudsend your diff to me or the docteam04:52
apokryphosfroud: quite a bit of info there; any specific parts that need to be written? Proofreading?04:53
froudit is a draft in progress04:54
froudI have written from scratch04:54
froudifyou want to edit, then do please check the stuff alleady written04:54
froudyou will know when I stopped04:54
haggaiamu: Riddell just said 'got a new apt interface library which synaptic is going to change to' so mvo will still be involved with kapture04:55
apokryphosfroud: out of interest, why is &appshort; used and not, say, &kynaptic;?04:56
froudsee the entities in the DocType Decl04:56
apokryphosfroud: Yeah, I know it brings out Kynaptic, but why is &appshort; used as the entity?04:57
froudwhy not04:57
froudthere is app = long and short = short04:57
=== froud drops some useless information into the room. The KDE World Map
froudapokryphos: the lonely dot in the middle of Africa is me04:58
apokryphosDon't know; most docs I've seen would tend to have used &kynaptic; (i.e. just &kcontrol;). Partly perhaps so they can have all the entities in a common file04:59
apokryphosHeh, yeah; was enjoying looking at that yesterday.04:59
froudapokryphos: KDE docs what all kind of stuff04:59
apokryphosI'm sure you're not as lonely as canllaith who has a whole island to herself ;)05:00
froudapokryphos: but until it does upstream I do it this way so that people who do not know kde conventions can work05:00
froudAh yes, my elf05:00
froudcanllaith form middle earth05:00
froudboy don't get in her way on a bad day05:01
froudapokryphos: so I can expect a patch in about 20 mins05:01
=== apokryphos chokes
froudRiddell: a user requested doc for Kmilo05:02
Riddellfroud: what sort of doc?05:02
froudRiddell: do you think it needs them?05:02
froudUser stuff05:02
Riddellfroud: it shouldn't need any user docs really (it does but that's a failure of kmilo not docs)05:03
froudI thought we could perhaps do a developer example05:03
Riddellfroud: I have some at http://www.kde.me.uk/index.php?page=kmilo05:03
froudRiddell: yep I was all over that page yesterday05:04
froudRiddell: user complaine dthat it broke his system on a laptop05:05
froudhad no docs to follow so could fix05:05
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Riddellfroud: sounds more like a bugs.kde.org issue than a documentation issue05:06
froudapokryphos: you want an easier way to read that draft05:07
apokryphos_froud: I think it would be good to have both, yes please :)05:08
froudapokryphos: ok gimme 10 sec05:08
Riddellfroud: do you think we should have a general introduction to kubuntu document?05:30
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BeineriRiddell: will you also update amarok05:35
apokryphos1.3 is coming out soon; not sure if it's worth waiting for that one or going for 1.2.2 though..05:36
Riddellthose amarok people come out with a lot of releases05:36
BeineriAmarok x.x.0 releases are usually a bit buggy (reason for the quick bugfix releases following)05:37
Riddellapokryphos: how soon do you think?05:37
RiddellBeineri: what's the best place to subscribe to new amarok versions?  freshmeat?05:37
BeineriRiddell: kde-apps.org has also subscription now :-)05:38
apokryphosRiddell: someone on kde-look suggests it's in CVS, but not sure how true it is.05:38
apokryphoswell, I'm asking.05:38
BeineriRiddell: btw, with an up-to-date system I get kpersonalizer, ktip, korganizer alarm and no wallpaper for a new user05:38
Beinerikdesdk 3.4 still makes problems?05:41
apokryphos<markey> nope, no date for 1.305:41
RiddellBeineri: hmm, I don't.  do you have kubuntu-default-settings installed and configured corectly /etc/kderc05:42
Riddellapokryphos: thanks05:42
Beinerisome other low hanging fruits: openoffice.org-kde and knetworkconf are not in the desktop seed and some kde-i18n packages are not in main05:42
Beinerikubuntu-default-settings 1:5.04-0605:43
Riddelllooks about right Beineri 05:43
=== Beineri has (again) no /etc/kderc
RiddellBeineri: that'll be it then.  wonder why it does that05:44
Riddellshould look like http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kderc05:44
Riddellamu, haggai, experienced debian packagers: why might Beineri be getting an empty /etc/kderc05:45
apokryphosI have empty /etc/kderc too05:46
apokryphos*non-existent, rather05:46
Beinerireinstalling doesn't help either05:48
motaboyWell, my kdebluetooth debs are completed. Now what should I do?05:49
Riddellmotaboy: put them in a repository somewhere so we can look at them05:50
motaboyRiddell: ok05:50
=== motaboy thinks that using the gentoo home page is not a good idea :P
apokryphosRiddell: when checking "File List" (Installed files) of kubuntu-default-settings, /etc/kderc is listed there, but crossed out (in kpackage, this is).05:50
BeineriRiddell: try deinstalling kubuntu-default-settings, verify your /etc/kderc is gone and install it again if it gets installed... ?05:51
=== Riddell updates kubuntu-meta
RiddellBeineri: when I apt-get remove kubuntu-default-settings  kderc remains there05:52
BeineriRiddell: so your copy doesn't belong to that package, right?05:54
RiddellBeineri: it does but it's a config file, if I did --purge it would get removed05:54
=== Riddell tries that out
=== Beineri assumed Riddel would purge it :-)
Riddellyep I can --purge it, kdmrc goes, then install it again and kdmrc comes back good as new05:55
Beinerimhm, seems I once remove kubuntu-default-settings without purging and since then it never (re)installed all files because of the old ones?05:57
RiddellBeineri: does explain why you would have no kdmrc at all05:58
Beinerikderc, not kdmrc05:58
Riddellthat's what I ment05:59
Riddellamu, haggai: ok for me too add edit as root konqueror serivice menu as substitute for konqueror as root?05:59
fabbionehey Riddel06:04
fabbioneRiddell: i just checked the changes to kubuntu-meta06:05
fabbione-sparc has all the packages as all the other arches06:05
fabbioneif you think something is missing, please let me know06:05
fabbionebecause it might be marked as "non-for-us"06:05
froudRiddell: general introduction to Kubuntu document is a good idea06:06
Riddellfabbione: non for us?06:06
froudRiddell: you mean someting like the About Ubuntu Document06:06
fabbioneRiddell: yes. in that case the sparc buildd will never build the package06:06
Beineri"System/K3bSetup 2" is back - wasn't that removed?06:06
Riddellfroud: dunno, what's in the about ubuntu document?06:06
fabbione"US" = sparc in this case ;)06:06
froudRiddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/about-ubuntu/06:08
Riddellfroud: I was thinking a document with About Kubuntu, Introduction to KDE and Konqueror and Kontact and Openoffice etc, How to install packages, configure the network and other admin tasks06:08
apokryphosThere are already decent docs, by the way, already for intro to Konqueror/Kontact06:09
froudRiddell: we can do this06:10
Riddellapokryphos: I think that part would be quite short and reference the full manuals06:10
froudRiddell: Kubuntu Quick Guide is on the cards06:11
froudSomething like http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/quickguide/06:11
Riddellfroud: yeah that looks quite good06:12
froudRiddell: we can expand to inlcude stuff lik eyou mentioned06:12
haggaiRiddell: hmm ok.  Do you know does that menu item only appear if you really have sudo rights?06:12
Riddellhaggai: it appears for everyone, not sure how to make it appear on a given condition06:14
froudRiddell: how can we get eSvn into Universe http://esvn.umputun.com/06:17
Riddellfroud: if somebody makes packages06:19
froudRiddell: hey its there already, when did that happen06:19
Riddellsorted :)06:19
froudHmm but only at 0.6.506:21
froudand we are at 0.6.9 already06:22
froudRiddell: is it normal to be so behind06:25
amuRiddell: if you change the kubuntu-meta you need to change them on the seeds, than run a sync and upload the package 06:27
Riddellamu: kubuntu-meta is changed by syncing with the seeds (it was out of date)06:28
haggaiRiddell: in that case I'd say it would be better to have the single menu point06:28
Riddellhaggai: why?  same problem surly?  except it's worse because you're running the whole of konqueror as root not just editing one file06:29
haggaiRiddell: hmm we have the tradeoff between running konq as root and cluttering service menus with unnecessary/even unuseable entries06:30
amuRiddell: rocks, just was woundert, cause there was no new seed-change06:30
haggaiRiddell: yes its the same problem but at least you don't have that menu entry in there every time you go to the service menu for something06:30
Riddellhaggai: but you do have an extra entry in the k-menu cluttering that up :)06:31
haggaiRiddell: I'm not a big fan of global service menu entries anyway eg I never use the k3b 'add to image' but see it on every right click06:31
haggaiRiddell: I'd say you visit the menu a lot less often than doing right clicks on files06:31
haggaiRiddell: but you are right, running the whole konq as root is not nice either06:33
haggaiRiddell: I guess if that's the best soln we have we should use it06:34
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froudamu: or Riddell: when I create a filter in kyaptic where can I see it and use it, or dont user customed filters work yet?06:57
Riddellfroud: no idea, I suspect they don't work07:00
amuRiddell: isnt it possible if you work on a package you assign the bug to you? did you fixed https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7786 ?07:10
amufroud: sorry no idea07:13
Riddellamu: ah sorry, didn't see that bugzilla entry (does it have the kubuntu CC?)07:13
Riddellamu: but I didn't change the packaging at all, you should keep working on it if there are changes07:14
amuRiddell: nope it was assigned to me, the last 2 hours i'm working on it :)  07:15
amuRiddell: in cvs the problem was fixed while in the download version it isnt 07:15
Riddellamu: I didn't see it on kubuntu-bugs07:16
Riddellamu: jolly good, carry on :)07:16
Riddellhow do I turn on media icons on desktop in kcontrol?07:17
amuRiddell: there was a bug to the package amarok, you didnt look to package bug before fixing/uploading a new version? you should 07:18
amuin kdestoprc ?07:19
Riddellyes, I should but it didn't come up on a search for kubuntu which it ought to07:19
amuhmm if i type amarok i get 3 bugs 07:21
amuRiddell: so plaese look _before_ working on a package, it exist a bug or not, and if there's someone already working on it. 07:23
Riddellwill do07:23
amucool :) i'll send you my patch, please close those 3 bugs also, i'll reassign the bugs to you 07:25
amuok, last thing we should take care, about the KDE cvs-commits07:26
Riddellwhen do we want to do that?  as close to release as possible?07:26
amui think asap, if the patch breaks something, we have the chance revert it07:32
Riddellso we should have a monster upload with patches to sync to 3_4_BRANCH and hope they all get in the release candidate07:33
Riddellwhat still needs to be done?  kdesdk and kdebindings?07:34
amuyes i did it with pim already 07:34
Riddellamu: did you do it by hand or make a nice script that we can use on all the others?07:35
motaboyamu, Riddell: I only have this stupid repository provided by my adsl provider. it doesn't create the index.html... (probably it's a stupid windows web server configured in a stupid way...)07:36
motaboyhttp://www.webalice.it/simone.gotti/kdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1_i386.deb kdebluetooth-irmcsync_0.99+1.0beta1_i386.deb kdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1.orig.tar.gz kdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1.diff.gzkdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1.dsc 07:37
amusdk on my todo for today, In progress: kdebindings (Chris)07:38
amuRiddell: by hand 07:39
amukdeaddons, reassigned it to lamont cause it's a problem with buildd07:41
amumotaboy: so, if i checkout the sources it will be the same tarball?   07:43
motaboyamu: yes, but it's in tar.bz207:43
motaboyamu: I changed some things only in the debian dir.07:44
amumotaboy: no prob, will check it after another motu review 07:44
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lamontamu: and back to you/elmo?  kmail is not installable,07:45
lamontthat is, out of my hands.07:45
opihi guys07:45
motaboyamu: please let me know if there are some problems.07:46
motaboyamu, Riddell : is apple's mdnsresponder already packaged?07:46
amulamont: the agent need a repack07:46
amumotaboy: ok07:48
motaboyamu: Riddell: if you are interested I already started packaging it, and I have a patch to make it use correctly $CURDIR for the installation.07:48
amumotaboy: nope it isnt a free licence07:49
amuyou probably find no legal page on the net with it :)07:49
BeineriRiddell: last question off http://www.kubuntu.org/faq.php could be updated now :-)07:49
motaboyamu: the kde developer of dnssd said that it's free and can be used by everyone.07:49
froudRiddle I would like to move that FAQ to a Docbook FAQ format. What do you think07:50
Riddellit's freeish but has issues like requires a certain (California probably) court of law07:50
motaboyRiddell: so no way to use dnssd in kubuntu?07:51
Riddellthe howl daemon uses the same licence so it's a question of does it link to anything incompatible07:51
Riddellmotaboy: but do add the packages to your repository so we can take a look07:51
Riddellfroud: what's the advantage in that?07:51
amumotaboy: "free" isnt free to use, arcobat is also free, but not allowed to distribute it07:52
froudRiddell: see example http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/faqguide/07:52
motaboyamu: yeah, but Jakub said that everyone is free to redistribute it's code...07:52
motaboyamu: and in gentoo we are doing just this...07:52
froudRiddell: multiple contributors can add in our svn07:52
amumotaboy: could you show me to the lisence? 07:53
froudRiddell: of course apply the css of your site to make it pretty07:53
Riddellfroud: sounds good07:54
motaboyamu: http://www.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/licenses/APSL-2?rev=1.1&content-type=text/plain07:55
froudRiddell: but we must resolve a method of how updates get posted to that site. We can script the build on our side, but somebody must do the upload.07:56
Riddellfroud: I can put it on the server if you have the script07:57
froudIf you have a working copy of our repos you can schedule the build07:57
froudRiddell: we are about to tag hoary and start restruct of our repos07:58
froudRiddell: so now would be a good time to take this into consideration07:58
amumotaboy: Section 9.1 of the APSL allows Apple to terminate our rights to use any or all APSL-covered code, at its sole discretion, in the event of an unproven claim of infringement, no matter how specious. This is derived from a similar objectionable portion of IBM's Jikes license, which disqualified that license from being referred to as "Open Source". 08:01
amumotaboy: Section 2.2(c) of the APSL requires that the producer of modifications to APSL-licensed code use a particular URL in the Apple.com domain to notify Apple. While the demise of Apple Computer, Inc. is unlikely in the near future, that sad event would leave us unable to comply with this section of the APSL. This would constitute a restriction on all rights granted by the license, including those rights necessary to qualify under the Open Source 08:02
amuhaggai: pitti ask for a reupload kde-i18n ... 08:03
motaboyamu: I'm asking myself why kde used this library... :(08:03
amunobody is perfect, we are humans and we make mistakes, thats is human behavior and it's good that's like this ;)08:05
motaboyamu: :D08:14
=== Kamion [~cjwatson@host81-153-126-219.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has left #kubuntu-devel ["reboot"]
froudRiddell: you want to take the current Ubuntu FAQ Guide and profile it for Kubuntu or you want to start from fresh?08:21
froudRiddell: because Kubuntu is based oon Ubuntu much of the current Ubuntu FAQ Guide applies to Kubuntu08:25
froudRiddell: with the exception of any GNOME stuff08:26
froudRiddell: also it would be preferable to use GUI for explanations where possible instead of cli08:27
froudalthough cli is attomic is scares the newbie08:27
=== mdz [~mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
mdzmorning folks08:28
mdzhow do things look for a coordinated kubuntu/ubuntu release candidate tomorrow/Wednesday?08:29
BeineriWhy doesn't /etc/alternatives/x-terminal-emulator point to konsole?08:34
Beineri(while x-www-browser points to konqueror)08:34
amumdz: hi, wednesday sound good, so we've 1 day left for fixing bugs / testing iso's 08:35
mdzamu: we plan to start building release candidate candidates for Ubuntu tomorrow; I suggest we do the same for Kubuntu08:35
mdzlet's set a time08:36
mdzand be sure that you, haggai and Riddell can be present08:36
mdzamu: it looks like there are still quite a few archive/seed changes which need to be fixed; what is the status there?08:37
amumdz: could you define tomorrow ? which TZ   08:37
mdze.g., libdb4.0 still wants to enter main, but I remember you saying you were rebuilding with 4.208:37
mdzamu: tomorrow UTC08:37
amuprobably the old package ... see http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/k/kdeaddons/4:3.4.0-0ubuntu1/kdeaddons_4:3.4.0-0ubuntu1_20050328-0020-powerpc-failed it depends against 4.208:40
amuor another package ... 08:41
amumdz: 22.00 UTC sounds good, i'm not sure what haggai thinks about it.08:45
mdzamu: is the problem with kdepim-dev fixed?08:46
mdzit seems to be installable here08:46
mdzon i38608:46
Riddell22:00 is good for me08:47
mdz2200 is fine for me of course, but won't you be staying up quite late then?08:47
mdzis someone uploading a new kde-i18n?08:48
amumdz: just started on the agent for a split it, the other problem is denepends pinentry-xx but it is not installable 08:50
mdzamu: pinentry-qt is in universe08:51
mdzpackages in main can't depend on packages in universe08:51
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amumdz: right, i'm not sure if the gnupg-agent works perfectly without pinentry. It is also on the list for moveintomain.08:57
=== opi [~emil@chi28.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #kubuntu-devel
frinkillohi all08:58
frinkilloa little question... are there any plans in packaging kdebluetooth for kubuntu?09:00
mdzamu: where is that list, and who is taking care of it?09:01
amuhttps://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuPackagesForMain 09:01
mdzwe need to set a deadline for all archive changes for kubuntu09:01
amutested it, without pinentry i cannot decrypt messges09:03
amutomorrow 21.59 UTC ?09:05
amuwell haggai should say something he's the teamleader 09:05
amuthat's how i estimate it ... 09:07
amufrinkillo: 09:08
amu19:37 < motaboy> http://www.webalice.it/simone.gotti/kdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1_i386.deb kdebluetooth-irmcsync_0.99+1.0beta1_i386.deb kdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1.orig.tar.gz09:08
amu                 kdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1.diff.gzkdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1.dsc09:08
frinkilloooh, cool09:08
frinkillothanks amu :)09:09
frinkilloI was going to package it right now09:09
amufrinkillo: i'm not sure if i've enough time for a rewiev .... hoary+1 should be no problem  09:10
frinkilloaha, it's ok09:11
frinkilloI found strange that it wasn't packaged yet09:12
mdzamu: I sent email to kubuntu-devel with an update09:24
lamontso why does kdebase-kio-plugins Depend: hal, dbus-1?09:30
Riddelllamont: for media:/ to do magic detection of removable media09:32
lamontRiddell: well, so far the biggest effect of that has been complete breakage of the buildd's.09:33
lamontRiddell: ubuntu does that by seeding hal in ubuntu-base, not from gnome09:34
lamontwhich is why we only recently discovered this nifty feature of udev...09:34
Riddelllamont: shall we remove the dependencies then and add it to the seeds09:36
lamontRiddell: if you did, it would make me most happy09:36
=== lamont considers faking up an Essential package that conflicts udev in the buildd chroots, just to keep udev away from him.
Riddellwho wants to add hal and dbus-1 to the seeds?  mdz?09:38
mdzRiddell: to which seeds exactly?09:38
mdzhal is already in the kubuntu desktop seed, it has been for ages09:38
Riddellproblem solved then09:39
mdzlamont: hal is not in ubuntu-base09:39
lamontmdz: no, udev is09:39
lamontudev rdepends: ubuntu-base, makedev, hal, alsa-base09:40
lamontand right now, all of the hoary chroots have udev installed in them, because installing udev kills the buildd09:40
lamontwell, that's not completely true...09:40
mdzsounds fine to me for now09:40
lamontit just leaves you with an empty /dev, generally containing a /dev/null that is a real file, root: root 64409:40
lamontyeah - gonna undertake extreme prejudice _after_ hoary releases09:41
lamontRiddell: no actual need to change the seeds, even though it would make me happier...09:41
mdzprobably just fixing udev to behave sensibly in a chroot would be best09:41
=== lamont still needs to go bludgeon the hoary-test chroots into udev-tolerance
mdzif kdebase-kio-plugins requires hal and dbus-1 in order to work, it needs to depend on them09:41
Riddelllamont: what change to the seeds would make you happier?09:42
lamontRiddell: nm09:42
lamontwhat mdz said09:42
mdzRiddell: does kdebase-kio-plugins work if hal is not installed?09:43
Riddellmdz: it should do, it falls back on fstab parsing09:43
mdzthen it shouldn't depend on hal09:43
RiddellI'll change that now then09:43
mdzhal will still be there in the desktop09:44
Riddellshould be OK to Recommend on hal?09:46
Riddellnew kdebase uploaded09:58
Riddellnew amarok compiled09:58
BeineriWhat happened to the plan to include "Search toolbar box" in Konqueror, aka konq-plugins?09:58
RiddellBeineri: awaiting successful kdeaddons (which I guess is awaiting a kdebase that doesn't bring in udev)10:00
BeineriRiddell: define "successfull" - I have a konq-plugins 3.4.0 from main here10:00
RiddellBeineri: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/k/kdeaddons/4:3.4.0-0ubuntu1/  compiled on x86 only10:02
lamontRiddell: yep10:02
lamontthe other 3 are blocked because 'kmail is not installable'10:03
Beinerianother point from KubuntuDefaults: "Can we get gtk-qt-engine working as default?"10:06
RiddellBeineri: I realised that gtk-qt entine of course depends on gtk so we can't install it as default10:07
lamontThe following packages have unmet dependencies:10:07
lamont  kubuntu-desktop: Depends: kdepim but it is not going to be installed10:07
lamontE: Broken packages10:07
lamontis the latest kubuntu livecd cloop effort10:07
Riddelland I don't know if there's any way to add something to kubuntu-default-settings saying "if gtk-qt engine is installed use that"10:08
BeineriRiddell: correct me, but kubuntu-desktop depends on libgtk2?10:08
RiddellBeineri: any idea why?10:10
BeineriRiddell: eg because xscreensaver does?10:13
Riddellhow evil of it10:13
Beinerias does python-gtk2 surprisingly on which kubuntu-desktop depends10:15
Beineriadd gtk-qt and you can always say that you had to leave gtk2 in there because of it ;-)10:18
Riddellany opinions amu, haggai?10:22
amumdz: lamont: checked the gnupg-agent package and cant find any problem why it cant move to main 10:33
amuRiddell: kdesdk-misc depends on gimp, gimp depends on python-gtk210:37
Riddellkdesdk isn't in the seeds10:39
amuRiddell: you'll find the rdepends here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/kubuntu-hoary/rdepends/10:41
Riddellamu: do you think we should try and purge gtk2 or take the opportunity to add gtk-qt engine?10:44
amuRiddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/kubuntu-hoary/desktop10:46
amupython-gtk2                   | pygtk                       | Desktop seed                | Sebastien Bacher <seb128@debian.org>                                  |           59338 |      10:47
amuwhat's about openoffice it needs the gtk? 10:48
amuRiddell: gtk-qt-engine a full ack, cause user will ask about ugly fonts and wrong font sizes, i try install ex. firefox  10:52
Riddellamu: ack on add to seed?10:52
amupython-gtk2, i dont see any depends why python-gtk2 is needed10:53
Riddellamu: that should be removed10:53
Riddellamu: do we need xscreensaver in the seeds?  I don't see why10:53
amuRiddell: python-gtk2, could you please recheck it, i dont see a kubuntu depends10:55
haggaiamu: OOo doesn't need gtk10:56
amuRiddell: xscreensaver is a depends from kdeartwork 10:56
Riddellamu: I can remove python-gtk2 from my machine without anything else being effected10:56
amuwb haggai 10:56
haggaiit would be better if we could avoiding gtk unless really necessary10:56
Riddellhaggai: so you say no to adding gtk-qt-engine10:57
amuhaggai: pitti ask for an new upload of kde-i18n  10:57
haggaiamu: ok I'll do it thanks10:58
amuadding gtk-qt-engine, solve a lot of problems and questions with people using gnome-apps on top of kde. 11:00
amuhaggai: 20:29 < mdz> how do things look for a coordinated kubuntu/ubuntu release candidate tomorrow/Wednesday?11:01
haggaiamu: can we install gtk-qt-engine without installing gtk?11:03
amuhaggai: 21:01 < mdz> we need to set a deadline for all archive changes for kubuntu11:03
haggai2200 is ok I guess11:04
amunope, it depends on the libgtk libpango, it's fine for me, there isnt a must be free of thos ugly gtk-stuff :) goal is functional/rocking kde-desktop11:07
haggaiRiddell: why juk and amarok on the live cd?11:07
haggaiRiddell: and why no explaination in my bug report?11:07
haggaiRiddell: and I don't agree with your amarok-arts resolution either.  Read the referenced report and you see there are serious issues with the arts backend.  Look at the plugin and you see all it needs is libxine1 and that is part of the seed anyway11:08
haggaiRiddell: I've just been testing it out today and it seems stable11:09
haggaimdz: what is the situation with libmad?  I thought someone told me it was destined for universe but has that changed now?11:13
Riddellhaggai: juk and amarok same reason as they are both on the install CD (amarok is sexy and very often requested, juk is actually usable)11:13
Riddellhaggai: no explaination in which report?11:13
haggaiRiddell: in #806011:13
haggaiRiddell: ok, thanks for the explaination.  I've been using amarok for a few weeks now, having previously used juk, and I didn't notice anything worse than amarok in usibility, but that's fine if you have good reasons thanks for explaination11:15
Riddellhaggai: juk vs amarok is a discussion that comes up within KDE occationally, juk has always remained just because amarok is harder to use (I can't work out how to use it)11:17
haggaiRiddell: ok fair enough I actually found it easier to use, but hey :)11:17
haggaikde-i18n uploaded11:17
Riddellhaggai: feel free to change the default engine used by amarok though if you think xine is better11:18
haggaiRiddell: ok will do.  My fault for not saying I'd looked at it in the bug report :)11:18
Riddellshould be just an amarokrc file in kubuntu-default-settings I guess11:18
haggaiRiddell: no actually it's a case of changing the first dependency in the package11:19
Riddellah right11:19
amuhmm isnt this a bug if you add a config to a meta-package or order to change the default values in the original package? 11:36
amus/or/in 11:36
=== motaboy [~motaboy@host116-36.pool80182.interbusiness.it] has joined #kubuntu-devel
motaboyHi all.11:37
motaboyProbably it was already asked so sorry in advance. :P11:38
motaboyIs there a reason why the mp3 plugins of k3b were disabled?11:38
amuMP3 is patent-encumbered, for both encoding and decoding, these patents are being actively enforced.11:41
motaboyamu: ok. but so why does there're mpg123, libmad etc?11:45
amui'm sure you'll not find them in the main archive 11:46
motaboyamu: ok. do you think that providing an k3b-mp3 package in universe or multiverse will be a good idea? More users probably want this mp3 feature.11:47
amuguess you're looking for sox, if you want burn with k3b your mp3 files 11:47
amu... aehm and rip them   11:49
motaboyamu: ok, but if there's sox there can also be a k3b-mp3, it'll be more integrated in kde.11:50
motaboyamu: or is it against policy?11:50
amuyes it is against the policy. If you want them, you just need the libs, ex. for DVD watching with kafeeine, you need libdvdcss, for mp3 just install lame,sox  11:53
amumotaboy: see also https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats11:53
amukaffeine even11:54
motaboyamu: so, just installing lame they'll work? great...11:54
motaboyamu: I missed this point :D11:54
motaboyamu: I'm quite sure it doesn't work as there isn't libk3bmaddecoder.so provided by k3b11:58
haggaiamu: libmad0 |  0.15.1b-1 | http://localhost hoary/main Packages11:58
haggaiamu: in main11:58
motaboyamu: and looking at the k3b build log looks like it's compilation is disabled.11:58
motaboyamu: as k3b needs libmad for the compilation of this plugin.11:59
=== motaboy is sorry if it's boring... but it know quite well all the kde build system and lot of external program thanks to gentoo developing :P

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