[12:04] <haggai> apokryphos: thanks for the mail
[12:08] <apokryphos> No problem; I think my bias comes through too much in naming advantages for each ;)
[01:09] <motaboy> Hi to all!
[01:10] <motaboy> I've got a little packaging question.
[01:10] <motaboy> The original source of kdebluetooth is a tar.bz2 called kdebluetooth-1.0_beta1.tar.bz2
[01:11] <motaboy> it will create a dir called  kdebluetooth-1.0_beta1/
[01:11] <motaboy> that has already its debian dir inside. I have to change it to ubuntutize ad to fix some things.
[01:12] <motaboy> How can I proceed?
[01:13] <motaboy> dh_make gives errors as the directory name is wrong because there's an "_" between 1.0 and beta1.
[01:25] <haggai> hi motaboy
[01:25] <haggai> probably the best thing to do is to remove the debian directory completely, rename the directory and then create a new .orig.tar
[01:26] <haggai> you need to change the version anyway because you need a version number less than 1.0
[01:26] <haggai> e.g. 0.99+1.0beta1
[01:26] <dato> ah, ~ is not allowed in Ubuntu?
[01:27] <haggai> dato: there are still broken packaging tools, e.g. libtool so its not a good idea to use yet
[01:27] <amu> moin' all 
[01:27] <haggai> amu!
[01:27] <apokryphos> dato: sure it is.
[01:27] <apokryphos> morning amu :)
[01:27] <haggai> amu: hey how about you test packages before uploading them? :)
[01:28] <amu> haggai: ;) do it all time, what happens ? 
[01:28] <haggai> amu: kde-i18n.  1. Empty packages  2. dpkg-buildpackage -b ; dpkg-buildpackage -S does not work
[01:29] <haggai> s/does not/did not/
[01:29] <motaboy> haggai: thanks. So it's not right to have 1.0beta1?
[01:29] <haggai> motaboy: no because apt will think that 1.0 < 1.0beta1
[01:30] <haggai> motaboy: thanks for looking at the bluetooth stuff.  I have bluetooth stuff (usb dongle, 2 phones, headset) and would be glad to test it for you
[01:31] <motaboy> haggai: ok. so I understand that apt interpretes everithying like a string? so your suggested 0.99+1.0beta1 si right?
[01:31] <motaboy> haggai: :D
[01:32] <haggai> motaboy: the rules are more complicated than just a string
[01:33] <haggai> motaboy: you can use dpkg --compare-versions to test
[01:34] <haggai> motaboy: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
[01:34] <haggai> "The upstream_version and debian_revision parts are compared by the package management system using the same algorithm:"
[01:34] <motaboy> haggai: thanks a lot :D
[01:34] <haggai> no probs
[01:36] <amu> haggai: ARG, checked them, but didnt found any empty packaged. see @buildd:/home/kde-3.4/hoary/home/tom/debs  
[01:36] <motaboy> haggai: another question... what's the command to generate only the .dsc file without compiling.
[01:37] <motaboy> ?
[01:43] <amu> motaboy: debuild -S 
[01:45] <motaboy> amu: Thanks!
[01:48] <haggai> amu: but do you see now that they were in fact empty?
[01:48] <haggai> -rw-r--r--   1 jr jr      7194 2005-03-24 20:44 kde-i18n-de_3.4.0-0ubuntu1_all.deb
[01:54] <amu> motaboy: we have a special #ubuntu-motu for packaging, you could join there peolpe are very helpfull  
[01:55] <motaboy> amu: ok:D
[02:31] <amu> haggai: sorry my mistake
[02:32] <haggai> amu: seems my upload is broken too :)
[02:35] <haggai> amu: how is kdesdk?
[02:38] <amu> continue with it today
[02:39] <Riddell> what should I do today?
[02:39] <haggai> amu: you need a cdbs/kde.mk update
[02:39] <haggai> hey Riddell
[02:39] <haggai> which of you two was telling me about removing libmad stuff from main?
[02:40] <Riddell> wasnae me
[02:40] <haggai> amu: was it you?
[02:40] <haggai> or was it mdz
[02:41] <haggai> Riddell: can you look at the seeds situation?  We need to make a decision about what else needs to go into main
[02:42] <haggai> Riddell: oh, and the kdesu stuff
[02:42] <haggai> Riddell: it's still prompting for root's pwd, and it isn't always working properly
[02:44] <Riddell> gtk-qt-engine is something I think we want in our seeds but I havn't looked at it, will do so now
[02:44] <Riddell> need to look at tidying up kdesu, will do that too
[02:44] <Riddell> don't know how to stop it asking for a root password since changing the string means  it won't be translated into all the languages...
[02:45] <Riddell> I could have it give the correct string in English and ask for root password in any other language, or just ask in English for everyone
[02:45] <Riddell> oh we need to check with Kamion if he's done anything about installing i18n packs from debian-installer
[02:45] <haggai> how about putting the string into Rosetta?
[02:46] <Riddell> daf said everything will get put into rosetta automatically at some point, but I don't think putting it in right now will mean it'll get translated much in the next two weeks
[02:46] <Riddell> well, 1.5 weeks
[02:50] <haggai> well it is only 1 string
[02:51] <haggai> daf is away at the moment but it might be worth asking
[02:55] <Riddell> haggai: that's the trouble, it's a lot of trouble for one string, I'll ask
[03:01] <amu> haggai: guess it was mdz 
[03:46] <haggai> arrggh
[03:46] <haggai> +pkgstriptranslations: processing control file: ./debian/kde-i18n-ar/DEBIAN/control, package kde-i18n-ar, directory ./debian/kde-i18n-ar
[03:46] <haggai> +/build/buildd/kde-i18n-3.4.0/debian/kde-i18n-ar /build/buildd/kde-i18n-3.4.0
[03:46] <haggai> +/build/buildd/kde-i18n-3.4.0
[03:46] <haggai> that is causing the langpacks to be smaller
[03:47] <haggai> amu: wasn't pkgstriptranslations supposed to be overriden for kde-i18n?
[03:50] <haggai> Riddell: what do you think about adding usb media icons to the desktop by default?
[03:51] <amu> haggai: yep, pitti told me, that he blacklisted it
[03:51] <Riddell> haggai: does ubuntu do it?  if so we should too
[03:52] <haggai> Riddell: it does do it.  They did that because there isn't otherwise an easy way to unmount media before removing
[03:52] <haggai> Riddell: I tried turning it on and it works very nicely.  It was one of the nice things I could demonstrate at cebit
[03:53] <Riddell> haggai: I'll do that then, any other changes you think I should make to kubuntu-default-settings?
[03:54] <haggai> the transparency stuff is really nice but hard on slow machines.  Not sure if we can do a lot automatically
[03:56] <haggai> what about #8058 and #8062?
[03:57] <Riddell> no "Home" entry in the K-menu is because the Home entry is in the System menu
[03:57] <haggai> ah so that can be closed then?
[03:57] <Riddell> yep
[03:57] <haggai> 8058: trash icon.  I guess ubuntu doesn't have the desktop icon?
[03:57] <Riddell> 'too many "Trash" items on the desktop / panel'  I've removed the wastebin from the desktop
[03:58] <haggai> great
[03:58] <haggai> can you keep the bugs updated?  amu & I are finding it very hard to avoid duplicating your work when you do not keep things up to date
[03:58] <Riddell> it should be removed from System too, along with Settings loading KControl rather than settings:/
[03:59] <Riddell> yep, will try harder, is there an easy way to find all kubuntu related bugzilla entries?
[03:59] <haggai> yup, search for kubuntu keyword
[03:59] <Riddell> ok
[04:00] <haggai> and if you're doing non-bugzilla stuff at least say here which package you are touching
[04:00] <Riddell> yep, just uploaded new gwenview
[04:00] <haggai> ..before you touch it :)
[04:01] <haggai> after you upload it is easy to see what you did :)
[04:01] <Riddell> spose so :)
[04:03] <apokryphos> haggai: That doesn't bring them all up; for example, using "kde" uncovers some more.
[04:06] <haggai> apokryphos: in that case they need the kubuntu keyword to be added
[04:11] <haggai> apokryphos: give me an example bug. I can't find any
[04:12] <haggai> Riddell: personally I prefer my clock to be on the right hand side, not the trash can.  And the clock time font would be nice if it was a little bigger.  What do you think?
[04:12] <haggai> Riddell: and do we really need the klipper icon?  Do you know poeple who actually use it?
[04:13] <haggai> Riddell: what about moving klipper into the hidden section by default?
[04:14] <Riddell> haggai: so systray, wastebin, clock?
[04:14] <Riddell> haggai: I use klipper all the time for clipboard history
[04:14] <Riddell> haggai: which size should clock font be set to?
[04:14] <apokryphos> haggai: If you search for "kubuntu", for example, there's only one bug assigned to you. While, if you search "kde" there's three (though one is OOo).
[04:15] <apokryphos> and, 1 for amu in the first one, 8 in the "kde" search. :P
[04:15] <haggai> apokryphos: the OOo bug is not kubuntu-specific.  What's the other one?
[04:16] <haggai> apokryphos: are the amu bugs already resolved perhaps?
[04:16] <apokryphos> nope
[04:16] <apokryphos> and, your other one is kdei18
[04:16] <haggai> Riddell: I think I like 16, but 15 is better too if that's too big
[04:17] <Riddell> yep, 16 is good, it should be as large as it can be without making the space taken any wider
[04:17] <haggai> apokryphos: ? please give me bug #s I can't find them
[04:18] <apokryphos> haggai: you can just search for "kde" where it says "Enter a bug # or some search terms", but I'll get number anyhow
[04:18] <haggai> apokryphos: I did already search for kde
[04:18] <apokryphos> #8277 and #8302
[04:19] <haggai> 8032 has kubuntu
[04:19] <haggai> so does 8277
[04:19] <haggai> they both show up in my kubuntu keyword query
[04:19] <Riddell> haggai: openoffice.org-kde still uses gnome icons?
[04:20] <haggai> Riddell: not that I know of
[04:20] <apokryphos> haggai: I promise I'm not going crazy, but I just redid a kubuntu search now, and those come up.
[04:20] <apokryphos> :/
[04:20] <haggai> apokryphos: heh :)
[04:21] <Riddell> haggai: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/openofficekde.png
[04:21] <haggai> Riddell: hmm, odd
[04:22] <apokryphos> froud: kind of wondering what's to become of the whole kpackage vs. kynaptic :D
[04:22] <apokryphos> But I'll help with it anyhow, sure.
[04:22] <froud> well if you want to write something I have a first draft in progress
[04:22] <froud> sources can be gotten from 
[04:23] <froud> svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu/kynaptic
[04:23] <apokryphos> oh boy, more stuff to learn ;-). Only was just getting to grips with cvs and docbook :-o
[04:23] <froud> just install subversion
[04:24] <froud> then in the directory in which you want to make your working copy do svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu/kynaptic kynaptic
[04:24] <froud> from there its all docbook
[04:24] <Riddell> apokryphos: nobody will be using cvs by the end of the week (my predication for today)
[04:24] <apokryphos> excellent
[04:25] <Riddell> I wonder if we could get an svn respository like docteam have
[04:25] <froud> idea
[04:25] <froud> I was gonna put it in the Synpatic repos
[04:25] <amu> haggai: usb media icons on the desktop? they appear automatic if the devices is pluged'in and if they are enabled by kcontrol
[04:26] <froud> but nobody else can contribute easily to it
[04:26] <haggai> amu: I am talking about whether to enable by default in kcontrol
[04:27] <froud> brb. I have to go on a bread roll run. Hot dogs for dinner anybody
[04:27] <Riddell> amu: so we need to enable it by default
[04:27] <amu> haggai: oh, sure it's a must
[04:28] <apokryphos> froud: ok, got the stuff. Recommend I open them with anything other than konqueror/
[04:28] <haggai> amu: didn't you say pkgstriptranslations is overriden for kde-i18n?  It is stripping them now :(
[04:30] <motaboy> amu: ping
[04:33] <amu> haggai: probably a bug in pkgstriptransion, pitti said it's blacklisted, i'll contact him about
[04:34] <haggai> amu: don't worry I'm reassigning the bug to him now
[04:35] <haggai> Riddell: thanks
[04:35] <apokryphos> amu, Riddell: do you two have any thoughts on the kpackage vs. kynaptic issue?
[04:36] <Riddell> apokryphos: neither are very good but kynaptic is more usable for now.  what's the question?
[04:36] <apokryphos> I personally don't see how kpackage is unusable at all, but, explained in more detail: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2005-March/000168.html
[04:37] <apokryphos> I think I'd recommend kpackage to a newbie before kynaptic, certainly.
[04:38] <Riddell> I suspect Kapture is the future anyway
[04:40] <haggai> well if we're going to move away from synaptic anyway we mayaswell go with kpackage for this release?
[04:40] <apokryphos> Riddell: never really heard of it apart from a few things
[04:41] <apokryphos> heh, same
[04:41] <haggai> Kapture is a package management system with assorted libraries, libcapture is Debain's frontend building toolkit, libkapture is a set of KDE widgets for libcapture. Planned frontend is a single package installer so you can just download and install a single .deb file. Kapture allows sorting and searching for applications, type KDE and CD and it will find all relevant applications for burning CDs. Kurrent is a simple KDE tool to keep the system up to date
[04:41] <haggai> created by Riddell
[04:43] <Riddell> haggai: Kapture is made by Kalyxo, it's got a new apt interface library which synaptic is going to change to as well so it will have a similar relationship to synaptic as kynaptic does now
[04:43] <Riddell> wasnae created by me, where did you get that?
[04:43] <haggai> Riddell: oohhh I had no idea about that
[04:43] <haggai> Riddell: wiki page created by you
[04:43] <amu> Riddell: you know synaptic is maintained and developed my mvo ? 
[04:44] <amu> my/by
[04:44] <apokryphos> My thoughts: have kpackage as default for this release (it would be nice to have an advanced package manager, so newbies don't go installing gtk stuff just for synaptic), and you can see how kapture does in the future...
[04:45] <Riddell> amu: yep
[04:47] <apokryphos> Things like auto-grouping of packages is really handy
[04:49] <amu> Riddell: i think we should support software from ourself, if we drop kynapitc it will definitiv die
[04:49] <haggai> amu: but that needs us to spend time on it instead of improving kubuntu as a whole
[04:50] <froud> apokryphos: it's xml it does not run under the browser
[04:50] <Riddell> I think arklinux uses kynaptic, I wonder if they've made any improvements
[04:50] <apokryphos> amu: Thing is, that can be said for many programs out there ;-). It sure does have potential, but shouldn't kubuntu be trying to use the best available?
[04:50] <apokryphos> froud: yup, sorry, momentary lapse. Reading it in kate.
[04:50] <froud> apokryphos: you running kate then you have an xml mode
[04:50] <apokryphos> Yup
[04:51] <amu> haggai: it should not done by use, there are many free softwarefighters, also mvo invest some time on it, it would be bad, dropping it
[04:51] <froud> apokryphos: edit in kate, save, then svn up
[04:51] <froud> apokryphos: and then svn status
[04:51] <amu> s/use/us
[04:52] <froud> apokryphos: then svn diff kynaptic.xml > kynaptic.xml.diff
[04:52] <froud> send your diff to me or the docteam
[04:52] <apokryphos> ok
[04:53] <apokryphos> froud: quite a bit of info there; any specific parts that need to be written? Proofreading?
[04:54] <froud> it is a draft in progress
[04:54] <froud> I have written from scratch
[04:54] <froud> ifyou want to edit, then do please check the stuff alleady written
[04:54] <froud> you will know when I stopped
[04:55] <haggai> amu: Riddell just said 'got a new apt interface library which synaptic is going to change to' so mvo will still be involved with kapture
[04:56] <apokryphos> froud: out of interest, why is &appshort; used and not, say, &kynaptic;?
[04:56] <froud> see the entities in the DocType Decl
[04:57] <apokryphos> froud: Yeah, I know it brings out Kynaptic, but why is &appshort; used as the entity?
[04:57] <froud> why not
[04:57] <froud> there is app = long and short = short
[04:58] <froud> http://physos.net/~physos/images/developer_map/smallmap.jpeg
[04:58] <froud> apokryphos: the lonely dot in the middle of Africa is me
[04:59] <apokryphos> Don't know; most docs I've seen would tend to have used &kynaptic; (i.e. just &kcontrol;). Partly perhaps so they can have all the entities in a common file
[04:59] <apokryphos> Heh, yeah; was enjoying looking at that yesterday.
[04:59] <froud> apokryphos: KDE docs what all kind of stuff
[05:00] <apokryphos> I'm sure you're not as lonely as canllaith who has a whole island to herself ;)
[05:00] <froud> apokryphos: but until it does upstream I do it this way so that people who do not know kde conventions can work
[05:00] <froud> Ah yes, my elf
[05:00] <apokryphos> Understood
[05:00] <froud> canllaith form middle earth
[05:01] <froud> boy don't get in her way on a bad day
[05:01] <froud> apokryphos: so I can expect a patch in about 20 mins
[05:02] <froud> Riddell: a user requested doc for Kmilo
[05:02] <Riddell> froud: what sort of doc?
[05:02] <froud> Riddell: do you think it needs them?
[05:02] <froud> User stuff
[05:02] <froud> install
[05:02] <froud> config
[05:03] <Riddell> froud: it shouldn't need any user docs really (it does but that's a failure of kmilo not docs)
[05:03] <froud> I thought we could perhaps do a developer example
[05:03] <Riddell> froud: I have some at http://www.kde.me.uk/index.php?page=kmilo
[05:04] <froud> Riddell: yep I was all over that page yesterday
[05:05] <froud> Riddell: user complaine dthat it broke his system on a laptop
[05:05] <froud> had no docs to follow so could fix
[05:06] <Riddell> froud: sounds more like a bugs.kde.org issue than a documentation issue
[05:06] <froud> :-)
[05:07] <froud> apokryphos: you want an easier way to read that draft
[05:08] <apokryphos_> froud: I think it would be good to have both, yes please :)
[05:08] <froud> apokryphos: ok gimme 10 sec
[05:30] <Riddell> froud: do you think we should have a general introduction to kubuntu document?
[05:35] <Beineri> Riddell: will you also update amarok
[05:35] <Beineri> ?
[05:36] <apokryphos> 1.3 is coming out soon; not sure if it's worth waiting for that one or going for 1.2.2 though..
[05:36] <Riddell> those amarok people come out with a lot of releases
[05:37] <Beineri> Amarok x.x.0 releases are usually a bit buggy (reason for the quick bugfix releases following)
[05:37] <Riddell> apokryphos: how soon do you think?
[05:37] <Riddell> Beineri: what's the best place to subscribe to new amarok versions?  freshmeat?
[05:38] <Beineri> Riddell: kde-apps.org has also subscription now :-)
[05:38] <apokryphos> Riddell: someone on kde-look suggests it's in CVS, but not sure how true it is.
[05:38] <apokryphos> well, I'm asking.
[05:38] <Beineri> Riddell: btw, with an up-to-date system I get kpersonalizer, ktip, korganizer alarm and no wallpaper for a new user
[05:41] <Beineri> kdesdk 3.4 still makes problems?
 nope, no date for 1.3
[05:42] <Riddell> Beineri: hmm, I don't.  do you have kubuntu-default-settings installed and configured corectly /etc/kderc
[05:42] <Riddell> apokryphos: thanks
[05:42] <Beineri> some other low hanging fruits: openoffice.org-kde and knetworkconf are not in the desktop seed and some kde-i18n packages are not in main
[05:43] <Beineri> kubuntu-default-settings 1:5.04-06
[05:43] <Riddell> looks about right Beineri 
[05:44] <Riddell> Beineri: that'll be it then.  wonder why it does that
[05:44] <Riddell> should look like http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kderc
[05:45] <Riddell> amu, haggai, experienced debian packagers: why might Beineri be getting an empty /etc/kderc
[05:46] <apokryphos> I have empty /etc/kderc too
[05:46] <apokryphos> *non-existent, rather
[05:48] <Beineri> reinstalling doesn't help either
[05:49] <motaboy> Well, my kdebluetooth debs are completed. Now what should I do?
[05:50] <Riddell> motaboy: put them in a repository somewhere so we can look at them
[05:50] <motaboy> Riddell: ok
[05:50] <apokryphos> Riddell: when checking "File List" (Installed files) of kubuntu-default-settings, /etc/kderc is listed there, but crossed out (in kpackage, this is).
[05:51] <Beineri> Riddell: try deinstalling kubuntu-default-settings, verify your /etc/kderc is gone and install it again if it gets installed... ?
[05:52] <Riddell> Beineri: when I apt-get remove kubuntu-default-settings  kderc remains there
[05:54] <Beineri> Riddell: so your copy doesn't belong to that package, right?
[05:54] <Riddell> Beineri: it does but it's a config file, if I did --purge it would get removed
[05:55] <Riddell> yep I can --purge it, kdmrc goes, then install it again and kdmrc comes back good as new
[05:57] <Beineri> mhm, seems I once remove kubuntu-default-settings without purging and since then it never (re)installed all files because of the old ones?
[05:58] <Riddell> Beineri: does explain why you would have no kdmrc at all
[05:58] <Beineri> kderc, not kdmrc
[05:59] <Riddell> that's what I ment
[05:59] <Riddell> amu, haggai: ok for me too add edit as root konqueror serivice menu as substitute for konqueror as root?
[06:04] <fabbione> hey Riddel
[06:05] <fabbione> Riddell: i just checked the changes to kubuntu-meta
[06:05] <fabbione> -sparc has all the packages as all the other arches
[06:05] <fabbione> if you think something is missing, please let me know
[06:05] <fabbione> because it might be marked as "non-for-us"
[06:06] <froud> Riddell: general introduction to Kubuntu document is a good idea
[06:06] <Riddell> fabbione: non for us?
[06:06] <froud> Riddell: you mean someting like the About Ubuntu Document
[06:06] <fabbione> Riddell: yes. in that case the sparc buildd will never build the package
[06:06] <Beineri> "System/K3bSetup 2" is back - wasn't that removed?
[06:06] <Riddell> froud: dunno, what's in the about ubuntu document?
[06:06] <fabbione> "US" = sparc in this case ;)
[06:08] <froud> Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/about-ubuntu/
[06:08] <Riddell> froud: I was thinking a document with About Kubuntu, Introduction to KDE and Konqueror and Kontact and Openoffice etc, How to install packages, configure the network and other admin tasks
[06:09] <apokryphos> There are already decent docs, by the way, already for intro to Konqueror/Kontact
[06:10] <froud> Riddell: we can do this
[06:10] <Riddell> apokryphos: I think that part would be quite short and reference the full manuals
[06:11] <froud> Riddell: Kubuntu Quick Guide is on the cards
[06:11] <froud> Something like http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/quickguide/
[06:12] <Riddell> froud: yeah that looks quite good
[06:12] <froud> Riddell: we can expand to inlcude stuff lik eyou mentioned
[06:12] <haggai> Riddell: hmm ok.  Do you know does that menu item only appear if you really have sudo rights?
[06:14] <Riddell> haggai: it appears for everyone, not sure how to make it appear on a given condition
[06:17] <froud> Riddell: how can we get eSvn into Universe http://esvn.umputun.com/
[06:19] <Riddell> froud: if somebody makes packages
[06:19] <froud> Riddell: hey its there already, when did that happen
[06:19] <Riddell> sorted :)
[06:21] <froud> Hmm but only at 0.6.5
[06:22] <froud> and we are at 0.6.9 already
[06:25] <froud> Riddell: is it normal to be so behind
[06:27] <amu> Riddell: if you change the kubuntu-meta you need to change them on the seeds, than run a sync and upload the package 
[06:28] <Riddell> amu: kubuntu-meta is changed by syncing with the seeds (it was out of date)
[06:28] <haggai> Riddell: in that case I'd say it would be better to have the single menu point
[06:29] <Riddell> haggai: why?  same problem surly?  except it's worse because you're running the whole of konqueror as root not just editing one file
[06:30] <haggai> Riddell: hmm we have the tradeoff between running konq as root and cluttering service menus with unnecessary/even unuseable entries
[06:30] <amu> Riddell: rocks, just was woundert, cause there was no new seed-change
[06:30] <haggai> Riddell: yes its the same problem but at least you don't have that menu entry in there every time you go to the service menu for something
[06:31] <Riddell> haggai: but you do have an extra entry in the k-menu cluttering that up :)
[06:31] <haggai> Riddell: I'm not a big fan of global service menu entries anyway eg I never use the k3b 'add to image' but see it on every right click
[06:31] <haggai> Riddell: I'd say you visit the menu a lot less often than doing right clicks on files
[06:33] <haggai> Riddell: but you are right, running the whole konq as root is not nice either
[06:34] <haggai> Riddell: I guess if that's the best soln we have we should use it
[06:57] <froud> amu: or Riddell: when I create a filter in kyaptic where can I see it and use it, or dont user customed filters work yet?
[07:00] <Riddell> froud: no idea, I suspect they don't work
[07:10] <amu> Riddell: isnt it possible if you work on a package you assign the bug to you? did you fixed https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7786 ?
[07:13] <amu> froud: sorry no idea
[07:13] <Riddell> amu: ah sorry, didn't see that bugzilla entry (does it have the kubuntu CC?)
[07:14] <Riddell> amu: but I didn't change the packaging at all, you should keep working on it if there are changes
[07:15] <amu> Riddell: nope it was assigned to me, the last 2 hours i'm working on it :)  
[07:15] <amu> Riddell: in cvs the problem was fixed while in the download version it isnt 
[07:16] <Riddell> amu: I didn't see it on kubuntu-bugs
[07:16] <Riddell> amu: jolly good, carry on :)
[07:17] <Riddell> how do I turn on media icons on desktop in kcontrol?
[07:18] <amu> Riddell: there was a bug to the package amarok, you didnt look to package bug before fixing/uploading a new version? you should 
[07:19] <amu> in kdestoprc ?
[07:19] <Riddell> yes, I should but it didn't come up on a search for kubuntu which it ought to
[07:21] <amu> hmm if i type amarok i get 3 bugs 
[07:23] <amu> Riddell: so plaese look _before_ working on a package, it exist a bug or not, and if there's someone already working on it. 
[07:23] <Riddell> will do
[07:25] <amu> cool :) i'll send you my patch, please close those 3 bugs also, i'll reassign the bugs to you 
[07:26] <Riddell> ok
[07:26] <amu> ok, last thing we should take care, about the KDE cvs-commits
[07:26] <Riddell> when do we want to do that?  as close to release as possible?
[07:31] <amu> sended
[07:32] <amu> i think asap, if the patch breaks something, we have the chance revert it
[07:33] <Riddell> so we should have a monster upload with patches to sync to 3_4_BRANCH and hope they all get in the release candidate
[07:34] <Riddell> what still needs to be done?  kdesdk and kdebindings?
[07:34] <amu> yes i did it with pim already 
[07:35] <Riddell> amu: did you do it by hand or make a nice script that we can use on all the others?
[07:36] <motaboy> amu, Riddell: I only have this stupid repository provided by my adsl provider. it doesn't create the index.html... (probably it's a stupid windows web server configured in a stupid way...)
[07:37] <motaboy> http://www.webalice.it/simone.gotti/kdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1_i386.deb kdebluetooth-irmcsync_0.99+1.0beta1_i386.deb kdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1.orig.tar.gz kdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1.diff.gzkdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1.dsc 
[07:38] <amu> sdk on my todo for today, In progress: kdebindings (Chris)
[07:39] <amu> Riddell: by hand 
[07:41] <amu> kdeaddons, reassigned it to lamont cause it's a problem with buildd
[07:42] <Riddell> strange
[07:43] <amu> motaboy: so, if i checkout the sources it will be the same tarball?   
[07:43] <motaboy> amu: yes, but it's in tar.bz2
[07:44] <motaboy> amu: I changed some things only in the debian dir.
[07:44] <amu> motaboy: no prob, will check it after another motu review 
[07:45] <lamont> amu: and back to you/elmo?  kmail is not installable,
[07:45] <lamont> that is, out of my hands.
[07:45] <opi> hi guys
[07:46] <motaboy> amu: please let me know if there are some problems.
[07:46] <motaboy> amu, Riddell : is apple's mdnsresponder already packaged?
[07:46] <amu> lamont: the agent need a repack
[07:48] <amu> motaboy: ok
[07:48] <motaboy> amu: Riddell: if you are interested I already started packaging it, and I have a patch to make it use correctly $CURDIR for the installation.
[07:49] <amu> motaboy: nope it isnt a free licence
[07:49] <amu> you probably find no legal page on the net with it :)
[07:49] <Beineri> Riddell: last question off http://www.kubuntu.org/faq.php could be updated now :-)
[07:49] <motaboy> amu: the kde developer of dnssd said that it's free and can be used by everyone.
[07:50] <froud> Riddle I would like to move that FAQ to a Docbook FAQ format. What do you think
[07:50] <Riddell> it's freeish but has issues like requires a certain (California probably) court of law
[07:51] <motaboy> Riddell: so no way to use dnssd in kubuntu?
[07:51] <Riddell> the howl daemon uses the same licence so it's a question of does it link to anything incompatible
[07:51] <Riddell> motaboy: but do add the packages to your repository so we can take a look
[07:51] <Riddell> froud: what's the advantage in that?
[07:52] <amu> motaboy: "free" isnt free to use, arcobat is also free, but not allowed to distribute it
[07:52] <froud> Riddell: see example http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/faqguide/
[07:52] <motaboy> amu: yeah, but Jakub said that everyone is free to redistribute it's code...
[07:52] <motaboy> amu: and in gentoo we are doing just this...
[07:52] <froud> Riddell: multiple contributors can add in our svn
[07:53] <amu> motaboy: could you show me to the lisence? 
[07:53] <froud> Riddell: of course apply the css of your site to make it pretty
[07:54] <Riddell> froud: sounds good
[07:55] <motaboy> amu: http://www.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/licenses/APSL-2?rev=1.1&content-type=text/plain
[07:56] <froud> Riddell: but we must resolve a method of how updates get posted to that site. We can script the build on our side, but somebody must do the upload.
[07:57] <Riddell> froud: I can put it on the server if you have the script
[07:57] <froud> If you have a working copy of our repos you can schedule the build
[07:58] <froud> Riddell: we are about to tag hoary and start restruct of our repos
[07:58] <froud> Riddell: so now would be a good time to take this into consideration
[08:01] <amu> motaboy: Section 9.1 of the APSL allows Apple to terminate our rights to use any or all APSL-covered code, at its sole discretion, in the event of an unproven claim of infringement, no matter how specious. This is derived from a similar objectionable portion of IBM's Jikes license, which disqualified that license from being referred to as "Open Source". 
[08:02] <amu> motaboy: Section 2.2(c) of the APSL requires that the producer of modifications to APSL-licensed code use a particular URL in the Apple.com domain to notify Apple. While the demise of Apple Computer, Inc. is unlikely in the near future, that sad event would leave us unable to comply with this section of the APSL. This would constitute a restriction on all rights granted by the license, including those rights necessary to qualify under the Open Source 
[08:03] <amu> haggai: pitti ask for a reupload kde-i18n ... 
[08:03] <motaboy> amu: I'm asking myself why kde used this library... :(
[08:05] <amu> nobody is perfect, we are humans and we make mistakes, thats is human behavior and it's good that's like this ;)
[08:14] <motaboy> amu: :D
[08:21] <froud> Riddell: you want to take the current Ubuntu FAQ Guide and profile it for Kubuntu or you want to start from fresh?
[08:25] <froud> Riddell: because Kubuntu is based oon Ubuntu much of the current Ubuntu FAQ Guide applies to Kubuntu
[08:26] <froud> Riddell: with the exception of any GNOME stuff
[08:27] <froud> Riddell: also it would be preferable to use GUI for explanations where possible instead of cli
[08:27] <froud> although cli is attomic is scares the newbie
[08:28] <mdz> morning folks
[08:28] <froud> morn
[08:29] <mdz> how do things look for a coordinated kubuntu/ubuntu release candidate tomorrow/Wednesday?
[08:34] <Beineri> Why doesn't /etc/alternatives/x-terminal-emulator point to konsole?
[08:34] <Beineri> (while x-www-browser points to konqueror)
[08:35] <amu> mdz: hi, wednesday sound good, so we've 1 day left for fixing bugs / testing iso's 
[08:35] <mdz> amu: we plan to start building release candidate candidates for Ubuntu tomorrow; I suggest we do the same for Kubuntu
[08:36] <mdz> let's set a time
[08:36] <mdz> and be sure that you, haggai and Riddell can be present
[08:37] <mdz> amu: it looks like there are still quite a few archive/seed changes which need to be fixed; what is the status there?
[08:37] <amu> mdz: could you define tomorrow ? which TZ   
[08:37] <mdz> e.g., libdb4.0 still wants to enter main, but I remember you saying you were rebuilding with 4.2
[08:37] <mdz> amu: tomorrow UTC
[08:40] <amu> probably the old package ... see http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/k/kdeaddons/4:3.4.0-0ubuntu1/kdeaddons_4:3.4.0-0ubuntu1_20050328-0020-powerpc-failed it depends against 4.2
[08:41] <amu> or another package ... 
[08:45] <amu> mdz: 22.00 UTC sounds good, i'm not sure what haggai thinks about it.
[08:46] <mdz> amu: is the problem with kdepim-dev fixed?
[08:46] <mdz> it seems to be installable here
[08:46] <mdz> on i386
[08:47] <Riddell> 22:00 is good for me
[08:47] <Riddell> tuesday
[08:47] <mdz> 2200 is fine for me of course, but won't you be staying up quite late then?
[08:48] <mdz> is someone uploading a new kde-i18n?
[08:50] <amu> mdz: just started on the agent for a split it, the other problem is denepends pinentry-xx but it is not installable 
[08:51] <mdz> amu: pinentry-qt is in universe
[08:51] <mdz> packages in main can't depend on packages in universe
[08:57] <amu> mdz: right, i'm not sure if the gnupg-agent works perfectly without pinentry. It is also on the list for moveintomain.
[08:58] <frinkillo> hi all
[09:00] <frinkillo> a little question... are there any plans in packaging kdebluetooth for kubuntu?
[09:01] <mdz> amu: where is that list, and who is taking care of it?
[09:01] <amu> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuPackagesForMain 
[09:01] <mdz> we need to set a deadline for all archive changes for kubuntu
[09:03] <amu> tested it, without pinentry i cannot decrypt messges
[09:05] <amu> tomorrow 21.59 UTC ?
[09:05] <mdz> ok
[09:05] <amu> well haggai should say something he's the teamleader 
[09:07] <amu> that's how i estimate it ... 
[09:08] <amu> frinkillo: 
[09:08] <amu> 19:37 < motaboy> http://www.webalice.it/simone.gotti/kdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1_i386.deb kdebluetooth-irmcsync_0.99+1.0beta1_i386.deb kdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1.orig.tar.gz
[09:08] <amu>                  kdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1.diff.gzkdebluetooth_0.99+1.0beta1.dsc
[09:08] <frinkillo> ooh, cool
[09:09] <frinkillo> thanks amu :)
[09:09] <frinkillo> I was going to package it right now
[09:09] <frinkillo> hehe
[09:10] <amu> frinkillo: i'm not sure if i've enough time for a rewiev .... hoary+1 should be no problem  
[09:11] <frinkillo> aha, it's ok
[09:12] <frinkillo> I found strange that it wasn't packaged yet
[09:24] <mdz> amu: I sent email to kubuntu-devel with an update
[09:30] <lamont> so why does kdebase-kio-plugins Depend: hal, dbus-1?
[09:32] <Riddell> lamont: for media:/ to do magic detection of removable media
[09:33] <lamont> Riddell: well, so far the biggest effect of that has been complete breakage of the buildd's.
[09:34] <lamont> Riddell: ubuntu does that by seeding hal in ubuntu-base, not from gnome
[09:34] <lamont> which is why we only recently discovered this nifty feature of udev...
[09:35] <Riddell> oops
[09:36] <Riddell> lamont: shall we remove the dependencies then and add it to the seeds
[09:36] <lamont> Riddell: if you did, it would make me most happy
[09:38] <Riddell> who wants to add hal and dbus-1 to the seeds?  mdz?
[09:38] <mdz> Riddell: to which seeds exactly?
[09:38] <mdz> hal is already in the kubuntu desktop seed, it has been for ages
[09:39] <Riddell> problem solved then
[09:39] <mdz> lamont: hal is not in ubuntu-base
[09:39] <lamont> mdz: no, udev is
[09:40] <lamont> udev rdepends: ubuntu-base, makedev, hal, alsa-base
[09:40] <lamont> and right now, all of the hoary chroots have udev installed in them, because installing udev kills the buildd
[09:40] <lamont> well, that's not completely true...
[09:40] <mdz> sounds fine to me for now
[09:40] <lamont> it just leaves you with an empty /dev, generally containing a /dev/null that is a real file, root: root 644
[09:41] <lamont> yeah - gonna undertake extreme prejudice _after_ hoary releases
[09:41] <mdz> yep
[09:41] <lamont> Riddell: no actual need to change the seeds, even though it would make me happier...
[09:41] <mdz> probably just fixing udev to behave sensibly in a chroot would be best
[09:41] <mdz> if kdebase-kio-plugins requires hal and dbus-1 in order to work, it needs to depend on them
[09:42] <lamont> right
[09:42] <Riddell> lamont: what change to the seeds would make you happier?
[09:42] <lamont> Riddell: nm
[09:42] <lamont> what mdz said
[09:43] <mdz> Riddell: does kdebase-kio-plugins work if hal is not installed?
[09:43] <Riddell> mdz: it should do, it falls back on fstab parsing
[09:43] <mdz> then it shouldn't depend on hal
[09:43] <Riddell> I'll change that now then
[09:43] <mdz> thanks
[09:44] <mdz> hal will still be there in the desktop
[09:46] <Riddell> should be OK to Recommend on hal?
[09:50] <mdz> sure
[09:58] <Riddell> new kdebase uploaded
[09:58] <Riddell> new amarok compiled
[09:58] <Beineri> What happened to the plan to include "Search toolbar box" in Konqueror, aka konq-plugins?
[10:00] <Riddell> Beineri: awaiting successful kdeaddons (which I guess is awaiting a kdebase that doesn't bring in udev)
[10:00] <Beineri> Riddell: define "successfull" - I have a konq-plugins 3.4.0 from main here
[10:02] <Riddell> Beineri: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/k/kdeaddons/4:3.4.0-0ubuntu1/  compiled on x86 only
[10:02] <lamont> Riddell: yep
[10:03] <lamont> the other 3 are blocked because 'kmail is not installable'
[10:06] <Beineri> another point from KubuntuDefaults: "Can we get gtk-qt-engine working as default?"
[10:07] <Riddell> Beineri: I realised that gtk-qt entine of course depends on gtk so we can't install it as default
[10:07] <lamont> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[10:07] <lamont>   kubuntu-desktop: Depends: kdepim but it is not going to be installed
[10:07] <lamont> E: Broken packages
[10:07] <lamont> is the latest kubuntu livecd cloop effort
[10:08] <Riddell> and I don't know if there's any way to add something to kubuntu-default-settings saying "if gtk-qt engine is installed use that"
[10:08] <Beineri> Riddell: correct me, but kubuntu-desktop depends on libgtk2?
[10:10] <Riddell> Beineri: any idea why?
[10:13] <Beineri> Riddell: eg because xscreensaver does?
[10:13] <Riddell> how evil of it
[10:15] <Beineri> as does python-gtk2 surprisingly on which kubuntu-desktop depends
[10:18] <Beineri> add gtk-qt and you can always say that you had to leave gtk2 in there because of it ;-)
[10:22] <Riddell> any opinions amu, haggai?
[10:33] <amu> mdz: lamont: checked the gnupg-agent package and cant find any problem why it cant move to main 
[10:37] <amu> Riddell: kdesdk-misc depends on gimp, gimp depends on python-gtk2
[10:39] <Riddell> kdesdk isn't in the seeds
[10:41] <amu> Riddell: you'll find the rdepends here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/kubuntu-hoary/rdepends/
[10:44] <Riddell> amu: do you think we should try and purge gtk2 or take the opportunity to add gtk-qt engine?
[10:46] <amu> Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/kubuntu-hoary/desktop
[10:47] <amu> python-gtk2                   | pygtk                       | Desktop seed                | Sebastien Bacher <seb128@debian.org>                                  |           59338 |      
[10:48] <amu> what's about openoffice it needs the gtk? 
[10:52] <amu> Riddell: gtk-qt-engine a full ack, cause user will ask about ugly fonts and wrong font sizes, i try install ex. firefox  
[10:52] <Riddell> amu: ack on add to seed?
[10:52] <amu> yes
[10:53] <amu> python-gtk2, i dont see any depends why python-gtk2 is needed
[10:53] <Riddell> amu: that should be removed
[10:53] <Riddell> amu: do we need xscreensaver in the seeds?  I don't see why
[10:55] <amu> Riddell: python-gtk2, could you please recheck it, i dont see a kubuntu depends
[10:55] <haggai> re
[10:56] <haggai> amu: OOo doesn't need gtk
[10:56] <amu> Riddell: xscreensaver is a depends from kdeartwork 
[10:56] <Riddell> amu: I can remove python-gtk2 from my machine without anything else being effected
[10:56] <amu> wb haggai 
[10:56] <haggai> it would be better if we could avoiding gtk unless really necessary
[10:57] <Riddell> haggai: so you say no to adding gtk-qt-engine
[10:57] <amu> haggai: pitti ask for an new upload of kde-i18n  
[10:58] <haggai> amu: ok I'll do it thanks
[11:00] <amu> adding gtk-qt-engine, solve a lot of problems and questions with people using gnome-apps on top of kde. 
[11:01] <amu> haggai: 20:29 < mdz> how do things look for a coordinated kubuntu/ubuntu release candidate tomorrow/Wednesday?
[11:03] <haggai> amu: can we install gtk-qt-engine without installing gtk?
[11:03] <amu> haggai: 21:01 < mdz> we need to set a deadline for all archive changes for kubuntu
[11:04] <haggai> 2200 is ok I guess
[11:07] <amu> nope, it depends on the libgtk libpango, it's fine for me, there isnt a must be free of thos ugly gtk-stuff :) goal is functional/rocking kde-desktop
[11:07] <haggai> Riddell: why juk and amarok on the live cd?
[11:07] <haggai> Riddell: and why no explaination in my bug report?
[11:08] <haggai> Riddell: and I don't agree with your amarok-arts resolution either.  Read the referenced report and you see there are serious issues with the arts backend.  Look at the plugin and you see all it needs is libxine1 and that is part of the seed anyway
[11:09] <haggai> Riddell: I've just been testing it out today and it seems stable
[11:13] <haggai> mdz: what is the situation with libmad?  I thought someone told me it was destined for universe but has that changed now?
[11:13] <Riddell> haggai: juk and amarok same reason as they are both on the install CD (amarok is sexy and very often requested, juk is actually usable)
[11:13] <Riddell> haggai: no explaination in which report?
[11:13] <haggai> Riddell: in #8060
[11:15] <haggai> Riddell: ok, thanks for the explaination.  I've been using amarok for a few weeks now, having previously used juk, and I didn't notice anything worse than amarok in usibility, but that's fine if you have good reasons thanks for explaination
[11:17] <Riddell> haggai: juk vs amarok is a discussion that comes up within KDE occationally, juk has always remained just because amarok is harder to use (I can't work out how to use it)
[11:17] <haggai> Riddell: ok fair enough I actually found it easier to use, but hey :)
[11:17] <haggai> kde-i18n uploaded
[11:18] <Riddell> haggai: feel free to change the default engine used by amarok though if you think xine is better
[11:18] <haggai> Riddell: ok will do.  My fault for not saying I'd looked at it in the bug report :)
[11:18] <Riddell> should be just an amarokrc file in kubuntu-default-settings I guess
[11:19] <haggai> Riddell: no actually it's a case of changing the first dependency in the package
[11:19] <Riddell> ah right
[11:36] <amu> hmm isnt this a bug if you add a config to a meta-package or order to change the default values in the original package? 
[11:36] <amu> s/or/in 
[11:37] <motaboy> Hi all.
[11:38] <motaboy> Probably it was already asked so sorry in advance. :P
[11:38] <motaboy> Is there a reason why the mp3 plugins of k3b were disabled?
[11:41] <amu> wb
[11:41] <amu> MP3 is patent-encumbered, for both encoding and decoding, these patents are being actively enforced.
[11:45] <motaboy> amu: ok. but so why does there're mpg123, libmad etc?
[11:46] <amu> i'm sure you'll not find them in the main archive 
[11:47] <motaboy> amu: ok. do you think that providing an k3b-mp3 package in universe or multiverse will be a good idea? More users probably want this mp3 feature.
[11:47] <amu> guess you're looking for sox, if you want burn with k3b your mp3 files 
[11:49] <amu> ... aehm and rip them   
[11:50] <motaboy> amu: ok, but if there's sox there can also be a k3b-mp3, it'll be more integrated in kde.
[11:50] <motaboy> amu: or is it against policy?
[11:53] <amu> yes it is against the policy. If you want them, you just need the libs, ex. for DVD watching with kafeeine, you need libdvdcss, for mp3 just install lame,sox  
[11:53] <amu> motaboy: see also https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
[11:54] <amu> kaffeine even
[11:54] <motaboy> amu: so, just installing lame they'll work? great...
[11:54] <motaboy> amu: I missed this point :D
[11:58] <motaboy> amu: I'm quite sure it doesn't work as there isn't libk3bmaddecoder.so provided by k3b
[11:58] <haggai> amu: libmad0 |  0.15.1b-1 | http://localhost hoary/main Packages
[11:58] <haggai> amu: in main
[11:58] <motaboy> amu: and looking at the k3b build log looks like it's compilation is disabled.
[11:59] <motaboy> amu: as k3b needs libmad for the compilation of this plugin.