[01:04] <Slant> Does anyone know where I can read about how to put together my own Ubuntu installer CD?
[01:04] <Slant> I would like to have a couple other packages and a different kernel set in the installer.
[01:04] <dholbach> Slant: there's something on the wiki about it
[01:05] <Slant> I was looking, but I couldn't find anything.
[01:05] <Slant> Do yo uhave any pointer links?
[01:05] <dholbach> search "live cd"
[01:05] <dholbach> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo
[01:05] <Slant> Isn't the Live CD a bit different than the installer?
[01:06] <dholbach> oh sorryyyyy
[01:06] <dholbach> i misread
[01:06] <dholbach> *blush*
[01:06] <dholbach> about the installer cd i dunno... sorry
[01:10] <amu> only a bit different, same system 
[01:11] <amu> Slant: if you take the d-i sources you'll find under /doc some infos about it 
[01:14] <Slant> Thanks.
[01:16] <Slant> Where are the Ubuntu fork of d-i respository?
[01:17] <amu> archive.ubuntu.com ?
[01:17] <Slant> It's not in the package list... :-\
[01:18] <Slant> Or, it is.
[01:18] <Slant> But not in the apt-cache search.
[01:18] <Slant> D'oh.
[01:20] <amu> Slant: look with you browser ;)
[01:20] <Slant> Already done. :-p
[01:20] <tritium> amu, if you don't mind, could you please post your review of my krecipes package on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUNewPackages ?
[01:25] <Slant> Well, I read custom-kernel.txt. It's pretty clear about how to replace the kernel in d-i. However, does that replace the installed kernel too?
[01:25] <Slant> I don't think so. So I suppose I would need to manually install the source kernel-image via chroot too...
[01:25] <Slant> :-\
[01:25] <Slant> Ugh.
[01:29] <amu> tritium: yep ogra told ask before
[01:30] <amu> Slant: no those are different ( packages )  
[01:31] <tritium> amu, thank you
[01:31] <amu> the one for d-i is a udeb the installed a full kernel.deb 
[01:32] <amu> tritium: sorry for the delay
[01:33] <tritium> amu, no need to apologize.  I appreciate your review.  :)
[01:35] <Slant> amu: Ok.
[01:35] <Slant> So I need to replace the udeb, and then post-install I need to manually install my kernel package from the boot CD.
[01:36] <Slant> So that upon reboot I'll have access to my modules.
[01:36] <Slant> Fair enough. Time to get on it then.
[01:40] <dholbach> good night everyone
[01:40] <amu> Slant: manally ? just look for the menu-id where the kernel will be install and replace it with your packages, i'm not sure about md5's 
[01:41] <amu> n8 dholbach 
[01:41] <dholbach> bye amu
[01:41] <mdke> night dholbach 
[01:43] <Slant> amu: Essentially, I'm trying to get around bug #7759. Is there an easier way than recreating an install CD?
[01:58] <Slant> Where is the smp patches for ubuntu kernels?
[01:58] <Slant> are rather?
[02:00] <mirak> is there a way to make gnome use asynchrone mode for mounting of the removable devices ?
[02:00] <Slant> mirak: I think you need to be looking at pmount?
[02:01] <mirak> I guess yes, but where ?
[02:01] <mirak> Slant: in fact that's the opposite, I want it synchrone
[02:02] <Slant> It is sync.
[02:02] <Slant> man pmount:
[02:02] <Slant>        The    device    will    be   mounted   with   the   following   flags:
[02:02] <Slant>        sync,atime,nodev,exec,noauto,nosuid,user,rw
[02:02] <mirak> yep I have seen that
[02:03] <mirak> but since gnome calls pmount
[02:03] <Slant> gnome-volume-manager, I believe.
[02:03] <mirak> yes
[02:03] <tseng> i believe if you make an fstab entry with async pmount will honor it
[02:03] <tseng> try that and then cat /etc/mtab
[02:03] <mirak> that's not pretty
[02:03] <tseng> uh, sorry.
[02:03] <mirak> in fact I want it to be alway sync
[02:04] <mirak> because it's to unsafe for removable devices
[02:04] <mirak> at least rw devices
[02:04] <Slant> mirak: The point is I believe they already are being mounted sync.
[02:04] <mirak> especially when they use crap32
[02:05] <mirak> they are not
[02:05] <mirak> my recoder is
[02:05] <|QuaD-> tseng: hoary is going to be released soon, do you know if beagle is going to make it in?
[02:05] <mirak> but my mp3 jukebox is not
[02:05] <tseng> |QuaD-: no, i dont know anything for sure
[02:05] <|QuaD-> tseng: ok
[02:05] <tseng> if not it will be easy to install
[02:06] <|QuaD-> tseng: easier than now?
[02:06] <tseng> as easy as dpkg -i
[02:06] <tseng> or even apt-get if i decide to be generous
[02:06] <ogra> heh
[02:06] <|QuaD-> tseng: haha, its not hard to do now, i jsut want official packages
[02:06] <Slant> /usr/bin/pmount-hal %h -e
[02:07] <Slant> That's what gnome-volume-manager runs.
[02:07] <tseng> |QuaD-: ill make sure they are gpg signed so you get a warm fuzzie then
[02:07] <Slant> thus you should be checking the HAL settings for the device.
[02:08] <|QuaD-> tseng: lol
[02:24] <ogra> anybody using dualhead in here ? 
[02:29] <eruin> where's the repo with gnomebaker in it?
[02:37] <ogra> eruin, it should be in the archive soon, i uploaded it yesterday, it waits for elmos approval
[02:38] <eruin> :D
[02:38] <eruin> great
[02:40] <ogra> if you urgently need a burning app, take graveman, its already there
[02:40] <tseng> there is a coaster deb on their site
[02:40] <tseng> it works fine for me.
[02:41] <tseng> graveman is meh
[02:41] <ogra> tseng, :-P
[02:41] <eruin> yeah, no, not urgent, just wondering how my favourite burning app was faring in ubuntu ;)
[02:54] <Slant> ogra: I'm running dual head on NVIDIA.
[02:55] <ogra> Slant, which arch ?
[02:56] <Slant> ogra: i386.
[02:56] <ogra> hmm..
[02:57] <ogra> Slant, does your screensaver run on both displays or only on the first ?
[02:57] <Slant> It's a single screen that has been xinerama'ed. But Ubuntu's version of xscreensaver doesn't support xinerama, so it only displays on the full first screen.
[02:57] <Slant> So in my case, it displays stretched across both monitors.
[02:58] <Slant> If I set them up as multiple screens, then it would appear only on the first monitor.
[02:58] <kaza> hi
[02:58] <ogra> and if you lock the screen, it shows the unlock dialog in the middle between both displays ?
[02:59] <mjt> someone ban this idiot #ubuntu pls
[02:59] <Slant> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7658
[03:00] <ogra> Slant, yup, thats what i'm working on...
[03:00] <mdz> ogra: hey
[03:00] <mdz> ogra: what is the status of hwdb submissions to the server?
[03:00] <ogra> hi mdz 
[03:01] <ogra> mdz, still no elmo
[03:01] <mdz> ogra: the deadline was 2005-03-09
[03:01] <Slant> ogra: Yes, it shows it in the middle of both display.s
[03:01] <ogra> i have no server yet...
[03:01] <ogra> Slant, ok
[03:01] <mdz> ogra: once the server is set up, everything else is ready?
[03:02] <mdz> do you have it working with a local server?
[03:02] <ogra> nearly...
[03:02] <ogra> nope, but thats an aftrnoon....
[03:02] <mdz> can you please do that while waiting for elmo?  the release candidate is in three days and there is no way that we will be able to test this properly
[03:02] <ogra> i'll have it ready tomorrow evening 
[03:02] <mdz> thank you
[03:03] <ogra> your order ;)
[03:03] <mdz> I don't want your work to go to waste because we don't get the data from our users
[03:03] <ogra> mdz, i already have 110 submissions in my inbox....
[03:03] <Slant> ?
[03:04] <mdz> ogra: you know what I mean :-)
[03:04] <ogra> mdz, yep :) dont worry
[03:04] <mdz> "please email this file to oliver" is not a very solid submission mechanism :-)
[03:04] <ogra> not at all
[03:05] <mdz> I expect we should get hundreds of thousands of submissions from Hoary if we get this working well
[03:05] <ogra> we will, the people seem to like it....at least thats what i get in the email caomments
[03:10] <ogra> mdz, about the apt-get.org thing, do you think it would be possible to have an additional repo (universe, multiverse, apt-get.org) so we could exclude the stuff we cant do QA for ?
[03:12] <ogra> there is a lot of stuff in apt-get.org where people wont be happy about, e.g. joey hess d-i stuff might be something i think Kamion should review...
[03:13] <crimsun> I'm much less worried about DDs' personal repos than I am others'
[03:14] <ogra> crimsun, sure, but even if its form DDs it may break stuff in universe....
[03:14] <crimsun> ogra: true.  All that's going into multiverse, correct?
[03:15] <ogra> crimsun, not sure about that....and there are things like indiana jones game ROMs there, we wouldnt even want in multivrse
[03:16] <ogra> +e
[03:16] <mdz> ogra: I have to talk to sabdfl about it
[03:17] <ogra> mdz, ood, then i know its in good hands...
[03:17] <ogra> good even...
[03:18] <sabmoc> eesh.. ubuntu is having some security auth problems lately, I just went to the website and it said the certificate was not valid, then I checked something out from svn and that wasn't valid either.
[03:21] <mdz> most of the certificates used for the websites are issued by the Canonical CA, not by any of the usual ones whose certificates are trusted by browsers.  It has always been this way.
[03:30] <ogra> night all
[03:30] <crimsun> night ogra 
[03:36] <sabmoc> mdz, I dont understand how that makes it alright to have invalid certs
[03:40] <crimsun> sabmoc: they're not invalid
[03:40] <crimsun> sabmoc: that's your web browser :-)
[03:45] <sabmoc> crimsun, Im not invalid, I have feelings you know..
[03:45] <sabmoc> crimsun, ok
[03:47] <sabmoc> crimsun, but I dont think the problem is my browser, I think the problem is that the cert was issued for is different than the site I am viewing.
[03:48] <sabmoc> at least that is what the message seemed to say
[04:36] <Keybuk> hmmm, udev upgrade just failed for me ...
[04:36] <Keybuk> (warty -> hoary)
[04:39] <mdz> Keybuk: more specifically?
[04:40] <Keybuk> dunno, it scrolled off the top and I don't know how to make screen give me scrollback?
[04:40] <Keybuk> hoping it'll do it again
[04:44] <Keybuk> Preparing to replace udev 0.026-1ubuntu5 (using .../udev_0.050-3ubuntu6_i386.deb) ...
[04:44] <Keybuk> udev requires a kernel >= 2.6.8, upgrade aborted.
[04:44] <Keybuk> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/udev_0.050-3ubuntu6_i386.deb (--unpack):
[04:44] <Keybuk>  subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1
[04:56] <Keybuk> linux-image isn't a depend of ubuntu-base in warty?  so wouldn't have been upgraded
[04:58] <Keybuk> mdz: is that a udev bug?  or a release note do you think?
[04:58] <mdz> Keybuk: warty has a 2.6.8.1 kernel
[04:59] <mdz> and no, it isn't a dependency of ubuntu-base
[04:59] <Keybuk> yeah, this was a pre-warty-release install, so the kernel never got automatically updated
[04:59] <mdz> that was an upgrading-to-warty-final release note
[05:00] <Keybuk> ok, I missed that one then
[05:00] <mdz> we do have a bug open about it, but since we've never shipped anything < 2.6.8, it's not much of a priority
[05:01] <Keybuk> *nods*
[05:03] <Keybuk> interesting ... if you comment out the udev change, it just doesn't start in postinst
[05:03] <Keybuk> and configures happily
[05:03] <Keybuk> that preinst check is probably a bug in itself
[05:03] <mdz> hmm
[05:03] <mdz> I'm inclined to agree
[05:04] <Keybuk> postinst does "if kernel < 2.6.8, don't start until reboot"
[05:04] <mdz> can you add a note to #6932?
[05:04] <Keybuk> Jenny NARGH! The Application "gnome-volume-manager" has quit unexpectedly.
[05:04] <Keybuk> *giggle*
[05:04] <Keybuk> so even the warty version does that <g>
[05:05] <mdz> g-v
[05:05] <mdz> g-v-m in warty doesn't like anything being upgraded out from under it
[05:05] <mdz> the hoary version is better; not sure if it's perfect yet
[05:06] <Keybuk> the hoary version doesn't seem to like it either :p
[05:06] <Keybuk> it seems to affect everyone but pitti
[05:07] <daniels> g-v-m is still segfaulty when hal/dbus disappear from under it
[05:36] <mdz> lamont: around?
[05:37] <mdz> daniels: what is left to be done before you upload xorg?
[05:40] <daniels> mdz: add two new modelines and a two-line i810 fix; give it a last run around on the live cd
[05:40] <daniels> i'm working my way through the keyboard bugs now, trying to get as many of those
[05:40] <mdz> yeah, unfortunately that seems to be taking a long time to settle out
[05:40] <daniels>   * Change default en_CA mapping to us (closes: Ubuntu#7448), default
[05:40] <daniels>     sv_SE mapping to se (closes: Ubuntu#7779), default el* mapping to
[05:40] <daniels>     us,el with an Alt+Shift toggle (closes: Ubuntu#7656), and br-abnt2--*
[05:40] <daniels>     fallback to br/abnt2 (closes: Ubuntu#8264).
[05:41] <daniels> this is what I'm running with unless I hear a definitive 'no' from someone who would know on any of those
[05:41] <mdz> I wonder how many of the non-latin languages are going to share that can't-login problem
[05:41] <mdz> smurfix: around?
[05:41] <daniels> mdz: mmm
[05:42] <mdz> there was at least one other report, I thought
[05:42] <mdz> ah, #8202
[05:43] <zenwhen> Is there any possiblity of getting cvs installed by default in Ubuntu?
[05:43] <zenwhen> Is there a place i would make a request for that?
[05:43] <wasabi_> Why?
[05:44] <mdz> cvs is a development tool; we don't install a development environment as part of the default desktop or server
[05:44] <crimsun> agreed.
[05:44] <zenwhen> Well I have on multiple occasions had people with certain USB wireless devices using amtel chipsets ask me how to do net free setup of said cards.
[05:44] <wasabi_> Sounds like a poor solution to that problem.
[05:44] <daniels> zenwhen: surely the answer is to get the right driver into the kernel, not use cvs?
[05:44] <daniels> mdz: ah, right
[05:44] <mdz> zenwhen: what is the solution that you offer them which involves cvs?
[05:44] <zenwhen> You need it to use the cvs snapshots
[05:45] <zenwhen> Surely that is the answer, and surely it isnt happening. 
[05:45] <mdz> if certain hardware is supported only by pre-release versions of the driver, I think "install cvs by default" is an awkward solution
[05:45] <zenwhen> I agree.
[05:45] <mdz> it might not be unreasonable to add cvs to the CD
[05:45] <zenwhen> But this is the current situation.
[05:45] <mdz> that would satisfy your use case more elegantly, I think
[05:46] <zenwhen> And cvs is so small.
[05:46] <zenwhen> :)
[05:46] <wasabi_> then apt-get install it
[05:46] <wasabi_> that's not exactly much harder than USING It
[05:46] <zenwhen> net free was my limitation
[05:46] <zenwhen> its no big deal
[05:46] <zenwhen> it was just a request
[05:46] <zenwhen> feel free to ignore it
[05:47] <mdz> err
[05:47] <mdz> cvs is already on the CD
[05:47] <mdz> it has been for ages
[05:47] <Keybuk> if we put CVS on, then we'd need to justify why we don't put (e.g.) bazaar and Subversion on
[05:47] <mdz> so is bazaar
[05:47] <fabbione> morning
[05:47] <Keybuk> in Ship?
[05:47] <mdz> zenwhen: your problem is already addressed in Hoary
[05:47] <mdz> Keybuk: correct
[05:47] <Keybuk> ahh, that's pretty reasonable then :)
[05:47] <zenwhen> oh it is?
[05:48] <mdz> zenwhen: cvs is on the CD, so no network access is required to install it
[05:48] <fabbione> mdz: yo
[05:48] <mdz> fabbione: morning
[05:48] <mdz> fabbione: are you happy with the kernel for RC, or are you going to try to put mjg59's fix in?
[05:48] <fabbione> mdz: regarding -32, there are 2 changes scheduled, the security updapte and the fix proposed by mjg59
[05:49] <fabbione> mdz: i am happy with the kernel for RC
[05:49] <fabbione> i will keep -32 for immediatly after
[05:49] <fabbione> given that it is ok with you
[05:49] <mdz> fine with me either way
[05:49] <fabbione> ok, than we will stay with .31 for RC
[05:49] <fabbione> and -32 after
[05:50] <fabbione> mdz: can i make merge a cosmetic fix to debian/rules too? it is to make clean: really clean
[05:50] <zenwhen> ok cool.
[05:51] <mdz> fabbione: cosmetic = doesn't change behaviour?
[05:51] <mdz> if so, that's certainly OK
[05:51] <fabbione> mdz: it makes clean do its job properly, remove 2 lines, change 1
[05:52] <fabbione> mdz: i forgot to remove the debian/abi/ dir on clean
[05:52] <fabbione> it's nothing extremely important
[05:52] <mdz> fine with me
[05:52] <fabbione> ok
[05:52] <mdz> we will be making many revisions of the kernel after release :-)
[05:52] <schweeb> since you 2 are around, I have a question :)
[05:52] <mdz> nice to have a good clean target
[05:52] <fabbione> mdz: you can check the change in the experimental branch if you like :-)
[05:53] <schweeb> I'm intending to fix the user-mode-linux package in universe
[05:53] <mdz> fabbione: if you would like to mail me the diff, I will review it, but it sounds safe
[05:53] <fabbione> mdz: ok but it is safe and tested deeply
[05:53] <schweeb> since it fails to build from source... I know mdz was the maintainer, and fabbione manages kernels...
[05:53] <mdz> that package is pretty much obsolete since UML was merged upstream and make-kpkg can build the packages
[05:53] <schweeb> ah
[05:53] <schweeb> okay
[05:54] <schweeb> think I should morgue it?
[05:54] <schweeb> or build off the kernel tree
[05:54] <fabbione> -       rm -rf debian/patched $(DIFFDIR) $(MONODIR)
[05:54] <fabbione> +       rm -rf debian/patched $(DIFFDIR) $(MONODIR) $(abidir)/$(release)-$(revision)/
[05:54] <fabbione> -       mkdir -p $(abidir)/$(release)-$(revision)/${arch}
[05:54] <fabbione> -       echo $(abinum) > $(abidir)/$(release)-$(revision)/abiname
[05:54] <fabbione> -
[05:54] <mdz> it needs a lot of work, to move to 2.6 etc.
[05:54] <schweeb> yea
[05:54] <fabbione> mdz: that's all
[05:54] <schweeb> I wanna do that for breezy, not really prepared to put that amount of work into it before release
[05:55] <fabbione> schweeb: hey.. xen kernels are almost ready btw :-)
[05:55] <mdz> schweeb: if it builds, I see no reason to remove it, since we don't have a replacement yet
[05:55] <schweeb> it doesn't build
[05:55] <schweeb> no kernel-source-2.4.26
[05:55] <schweeb> (which I mentioned in #u-k the other day)
[05:55] <schweeb> no one was around though
[05:55] <mdz> ah, ok
[05:56] <mdz> yes, it should be removed
[05:56] <mdz> it has known security vulnerabilities, etc.
[05:56] <schweeb> alright, I'll put it on the proposed morgue list
[05:56] <fabbione> Keybuk: how can i merge one single specific commit, from one branch to another in baz?
[05:57] <mdz> mako: morning
[05:57] <schweeb> this is the information I needed to know, cool :)
[05:57] <mdz> fabbione: baz replay
[05:57] <Keybuk> baz replay blah@blah/blah--blah--blah
[05:57] <Keybuk> --patch-x
[05:57] <fabbione> ok thanks
[06:00] <fabbione> yup
[06:00] <fabbione> neat
[06:02] <fabbione> mdz: i also prepared a generic infrastructure to build xen and uml kernel images, of course it will wait for breezy, but at least we can be ready for UDU and see how to handle ti
[06:03] <mdz> fabbione: yep
[06:03] <fabbione> but the amount of images will bloat :/
[06:03] <fabbione> badly
[06:03] <mdz> we need fewer images
[06:05] <fabbione> i agree.
[06:05] <fabbione> but xen and uml are 2 arches on their own
[06:05] <fabbione> with their own requirements
[06:05] <fabbione> i dunno uml enough yet
[06:05] <fabbione> but xen requires 2 images per flavour
[06:05] <fabbione> xen0 and xenU
[06:05] <schweeb> uml wants SKAS support
[06:05] <fabbione> xen0 for the main host (the one you really boot)
[06:06] <schweeb> but it isn't a strict requirement
[06:06] <fabbione> and xenU for the internal hosts
[06:06] <fabbione> so you get a bloat on that
[06:06] <mdz> we need fewer flavours, I mean
[06:07] <mdz> 2 images per flavour is not bad if there is only one flavour ;-)
[06:08] <schweeb> fabbione: if I take some time off of work soon, I'll try to see if I can get the Xen userspace stuff running on python2.4... I'm guessing 2.3 support will be dropped on breezy?
[06:08] <mdz> that's unclear
[06:08] <mdz> the reason we have python2.3 is for zope
[06:08] <mdz> if zope were updated to use 2.4, perhaps we could drop 2.3
[06:08] <fabbione> schweeb: i am not sure about python, but it will be of course nice to get it working on 2.4
[06:09] <schweeb> yea
[06:09] <schweeb> I wish there was a central IRC channel for Xen... all the devel chat seems to happen on the ml's
[06:09] <schweeb> there's one on oftc, but it's pretty low traffic
[06:11] <mako> mdz: morning... :)
[06:12] <schweeb> you've been pretty low profile lately, mako :)
[06:12] <mako> schweeb: dude.. i've been swamped :)
[06:13] <schweeb> understandable
[06:13] <schweeb> your laptop incident made me chuckle ;)
[06:14] <mako> me too.. sort of :)
[06:14] <mako> i guess i have been pretty quiet.. i didn't even blog all last week
[06:14] <mako> wow
[06:14] <schweeb> whip said you've got some pretty interesting ideas about those houses in Detroit
[06:15] <mako> schweeb: ah, you've heard my idea
[06:15] <mako> can i add your name to the list?
[06:15] <schweeb> I haven't heard the entire idea
[06:15] <schweeb> explain :)
[06:16] <schweeb> I just heard the term "open source neighborhood" tossed around
[06:19] <schweeb> but if it's cool, I'm in :)
[06:20] <mako> yeah dude
[06:20] <mako> i'm trying to build critical mass
[06:20] <fabbione> hey mako
[06:21] <mako> so if anyone else here wants to move into FREE HOUSES in inner city detroit to create a rent-free free software commune, i'm the guy to talk to
[06:21] <mako> fabbione: whats up dude :)
[06:21] <schweeb> hehe commune
[06:23] <schweeb> as long as it doesn't get me murdered, and I still work near Detroit, sure
[06:24] <schweeb> get enough people and we could pool resources and get some hardcore bandwidth too :)
[06:24] <fabbione> mako: not much really.. woke way too early this morning and my wife is already complaining that i am in front of a monitor :-)
[06:24] <mako> isn't today a holiday in most of europe? :) 
[06:25] <fabbione> mako: indeed
[06:25] <mako> it's sure not here :(
[06:26] <Slant> Ugh.
[06:26] <Slant> Lame.
[06:26] <mako> but i think i'm going to take half of tuesday off to go see the grokster v mgm supreme court case
[06:26] <mako> if i can get everything i need to do done before
[06:26] <Slant> I have to rebuild the kernel since d-i requires a flavor be specified.
[07:06] <daniels> has jbailey been around lately?
[07:06] <Mithrandir> six-ish hours ago, yes.
[07:07] <daniels> cheers
[07:15] <infinity> daniels : Never announce anything as the last build, that's just inviting trouble.
[07:16] <infinity> I find that the "last build" usually happens at the N+1 mark, where "N" is the number of builds after which I say "You know, I really should be using ccache".
[07:18] <mako> alright.. i'm off for little bit this sleep thing
[07:18] <mako> later all
[07:19] <schweeb> night
[07:21] <daniels> night mako
[07:21] <daniels> infinity: monash?
[07:22] <daniels> jbailey: hullo :)
[07:23] <infinity> daniels : Hallway. :/
[07:23] <infinity> daniels : The Monash library isn't open until Wednesday morning.
[07:23] <daniels> infinity: agh
[07:23] <daniels> infinity: hm, not open Tuesday?  bong
[07:23] <infinity> Rather bong, yes.
[07:34] <pitti> morning all
[07:34] <infinity> Mornin', pitti.
[07:40] <infinity> pitti : BTW, I just reviewed the PAM changelog more in-depth, and nothing else there seems like a security issue (well, some may argue that any bug in PAM is a "security issue", but I wouldn't go that far)
[07:40] <infinity> pitti : I think we can close the Ubuntu bug and let hartmans deal with the wishlist bug in Debian on his own time.
[07:41] <infinity> pitti : Sorry for being a day or two late.  I had no idea people here would take Easter so.. Seriously.
[07:53] <kagou> hi
[07:53] <pitti> infinity: thanks for you analysis
[07:54] <pitti> infinity: well, at some point the family just claims its rights :-)
[08:08] <pitti> Kamion: here?
[08:12] <smurfix> mdz: still here?
[08:12] <mdz> smurfix: yes
[08:13] <smurfix> mdz: you rang?
[08:13] <mdz> smurfix: wanted your input on these keymap bugs
[08:13] <mdz> specifically the ones where people end up with a keymap that doesn't allow them to log in
[08:14] <mdz> greek and russian suffered this problem so far
[08:14] <mdz> in both cases the correct thing was apparently to use a "us,<foo>" layout
[08:14] <mdz> at least for the users who reported the bugs
[08:15] <smurfix> I've been CCd on the Greek one
[08:15] <mdz> #8202 is the russian one
[08:15] <mdz> I think
[08:15] <smurfix> didn't say anything because the solution you arrived at looks sane and appears to be the one used by a Certain Other OS
[08:16] <smurfix> let me look over that one
[08:16] <daniels> it looks like we need to have a Latin keymap (or at least one that allows full Latin entr) as the default if we're only allowing Latin in the installer
[08:16] <daniels> logging in being useful and all that
[08:18] <smurfix> Yeah, no other good solution until we get a graphical installer, I think
[08:19] <smurfix> and even then the user needs an ASCII username if they want to receive emails ...
[08:20] <infinity> Non-ASCII usernames are just asking for trouble, imo.
[08:25] <smurfix> infinity: Yeah, there are probably enough other problems with them. I never tried, not having any of those in my name.
[08:44] <mdz> pitti: please don't add the gimp help to the language-support packs quite yet
[08:44] <mdz> they're big
[08:45] <daniels> ARGH ZWIKI
[08:52] <pitti> mdz: you mean because of -en, which would land on the CD?
[08:52] <pitti> mdz: 450 kB .deb
[10:17] <trulux> pitti: heya
[10:17] <pitti> Hi trulux 
[10:18] <trulux> pitti: do you have a bit of time?
[10:18] <pitti> what's up?
[10:19] <trulux> pitti: I'm fine, you? I've sent you an email on the new libssp packages
[10:19] <trulux> could it be in Universe?
[10:19] <pitti> yeah, sorry, Easter holidays
[10:19] <trulux> just also Sid package needs an upgrade
[10:19] <trulux> NP
[10:19] <trulux> I had them too :)
[10:19] <pitti> if the MOTU crew is fine with it
[10:19] <trulux> but I'm again ill :(
[10:20] <trulux> pitti: I'll ask on -motu, is that OK?
[10:20] <pitti> sure
[10:20] <trulux> ok :)
[10:20] <pitti> or just ask ogra or dholback
[10:20] <pitti> dholbach, even
[10:22] <trulux> ok, thanks
[10:51] <ogra> morning
[10:52] <daniels> mdz: ping
[10:53] <daniels> mdz: casper-reconfigure -fpassthrough xserver-xorg fails; dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg, from a console, succeeds
[10:53] <daniels> mdz: (the former leaves you with the old PCI ID; the latter gives you the proper PCI ID)
[10:55] <daniels> mdz: i suspect db_reset semantics are possibly totally fucked?
[11:01] <pitti> Hi ogra
[11:01] <pitti> hi daniels 
[11:01] <ogra> hey pitti
[11:01] <ogra> did i whish you a happy easter already ?
[11:02] <pitti> hmm, could be :-)
[11:02] <ogra> heh
[11:02] <pitti> however, happy easter! (just for the case) :-)
[11:02] <ogra> yeah :)
[11:20] <daniels> pitti: yo
[11:23] <dholbach> hey!
[11:25] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[11:26] <dholbach> hey pitti
[11:55] <xuzo> hi, why powernowd is not stopped in laptop mode?
[11:55] <pitti> why should it?
[11:56] <xuzo> mmm, my laptop supports ffrom 600 to 1600 MHz, using powernowd puts cpu to max. speed opening a simple app
[12:13] <pitti> Hi sabdfl 
[12:13] <sabdfl> hiya
[12:13] <dholbach> sabdfl: hi mark :-)
[12:14] <trulux> pitti: too much work for the MOTU's, libssp1 can't be reviewed by now
[12:14] <pitti> brb, testing a crasher...
[12:22] <abelli> ciao ppl
[12:22] <abelli> is there any planned for a "rootly nautilus" in gnome's menu?
[12:22] <abelli> s/planned/plan
[12:23] <abelli> ... happy easter to everyone ...
[12:23] <Treenaks> abelli: I think it's not planned, becayse of the inherent potential for stupidity
[12:24] <abelli> yeah but "gksudo nautilus" is not so far away
[12:24] <sladen> abelli: the 'opposite' of spacial nautilus?
[12:24] <Treenaks> nautilus should die when run as root, imho
[12:25] <abelli> or maybe what about a control Something to administer all of this tasks with rootly powers needs.
[12:25] <ogra> argh
[12:25] <ogra> Treenaks, ++++++
[12:25] <abelli> Treenaks: yeah but ppl keep on asking how to deal with etc file management.
[12:25] <Treenaks> abelli: vimtutor<enter>
[12:25] <Treenaks> abelli: or terminal + nano if they don't want to learn
[12:26] <abelli> vimtutor? is it a virus?
[12:26] <abelli> please rms forgive him .
[12:26] <sladen> I suppose if you try to delete a file owned by somebody else, it could do with having a way of 'probing' the command, and then responding either with a dialogue ''this command requires superuser priviliges'', followed by either ''please enter your password to confirm'' or ''please contact a system administrator''
[12:26] <abelli> sladen: perfect.
[12:26] <abelli> sladen: exactly what i was thinking of .
[12:26] <Treenaks> sladen: nautilus already knows: it shows little "lcok" icons
[12:26] <Treenaks> lock, too
[12:27] <sladen> abelli: could you search the net and see if anyone else has suggested similar, an.... ah
[12:27] <abelli> what should i look for ? "nautilus ah na na"?
[12:28] <sladen> Treenaks: I suppose it could be taught about the 'admin' group which is the default one for those with full sudo priviliges
[12:28] <sladen> ideally it could do with understanding the full security model
[12:29] <abelli> Treenaks: im not sure i can help you with your sickness ... will you come with me at LSM?
[12:29] <Treenaks> abelli: LSM?
[12:29] <sladen> abelli: can you write it up on the bugzilla as a 'wishlist' item?
[12:29] <abelli> libre software something in Dijon (sorry i dont know how it's spelled")
[12:29] <Treenaks> abelli: meeting probably :)
[12:29] <abelli> sladen: yes, maybe why dont we think a little more about it?
[12:30] <abelli> sladen: just to understand what we're talking about.
[12:30] <abelli> or not?
[12:30] <Treenaks> So Nautilus (or any gnome app..) should notice "I can't edit this file.", and then be able to sat "But I /could/ sudo to remedy that." or "Hm, I can't sudo, better call in a real sysadmin"
[12:31] <ogra> using a filemanager as root is sooo wrong
[12:31] <Treenaks> sat=say
[12:31] <abelli> ogra: did you receive the sms?
[12:31] <Treenaks> ogra: yes, but a filemanager starting an editor as root is less evil
[12:31] <abelli> ogra: yeah. also smoking is ... but some ppl do it.
[12:31] <ogra> abelli, oh, my battery is empty....wait...i'll charge it
[12:31] <abelli> ogra: no probs.
[12:31] <abelli> ogra: happy easter.
[12:32] <ogra> abelli, same to you :)
[12:32] <abelli> sladen ?
[12:34] <abelli> ogra: what would you suggest?
[12:34] <abelli> ogra: i mean i see your point . but there's always an approximated solution for quite everything.
[12:35] <abelli> or at least when we are talking about GUI.
[12:36] <sladen> want something like the OSX security services---nice central clearing house.
[12:36] <Treenaks> sladen: there's the keyring stuff in gnoem
[12:36] <Treenaks> gnome
[12:37] <sladen> the ideal solution would be one-better than sudo.  Not to run the /editor/ as root, but to allow it read/write to file in the way that 'fakeroot' fakes such things
[12:37] <sladen> Treenaks: nod.
[12:37] <ogra> abelli, if someone doesnt know how to handle files on the commandline, he souldnt do it with a filemanager....the system should be designed to make this not necessary, that would be the right fix...
[12:38] <Treenaks> ogra: that would mean writing a gnome config tool for EVERY file in /et
[12:38] <Treenaks> c
[12:38] <abelli> ogra: you've already got the cow, let's try to get as much milk as possible out of her.
[12:38] <ogra> Treenaks, sudo gedit
[12:39] <ogra> Treenaks, open with....gksudo gedit should work too (untested)
[12:39] <abelli> ogra yes, gksudo is better. 
[12:39] <pitti> Kamion: ping
[12:40] <abelli> because you're not wasting a terminal, but you still have something with rootly powers wandering around your CPU.
[12:41] <ogra> abelli, but filemanagers as root are very very dangerous....imagine you accidentially move /usr/bin to tmp because of a flaky mouse and you dont recognize it.....
[12:41] <abelli> you can hide it.
[12:42] <ogra> hmm, so if i hide every sensitive dir, where is the point to have a filemanager as root then ?
[12:42] <dholbach> it should be completely forbidden, if you need to change stuff in /etc, you should be 1) knowing what you do or 2) there should be a clickypointy interface for it
[12:42] <ogra> s/sensitive/sensible
[12:42] <ogra> dholbach, +++
[12:42] <abelli> sladen idea is quite better .
[12:43] <abelli> as i was saying before, we need to know what we are talking about (i mean ... problem) .
[12:44] <sladen> the ideal delegation is not ''you may run this comand as root'', it is ''*you* may modify *this* file for a period of *5 minutes*
[12:44] <abelli> there was an user that wanted to copy things under /opt
[12:45] <sladen> anything that fails should hit the security service and be handled there (eg, with a password prompt)
[12:45] <abelli> and why not using a pop up windows for moving files or directory?
[12:45] <abelli> so you can't mistake as ogra was saying.
[12:45] <dholbach> abelli: this may sound a bit geeky, but i think people struggling their way to grokking file permissions, unix tools, ... are less likely to fsck up their system
[12:46] <sladen> this is also where the fine-grained LSM comes in, dpkg should have access to /var/lib/dpkg/* but not anything else
[12:47] <sladen> this would also mean that you could edit a file, but not be prompted until you actually try and save it
[12:48] <abelli> ogra: if we use a pop up windows, with say source files and destination, there will be less possibilities for a mistake? or not?
[12:48] <Treenaks> yes
[12:48] <ogra> abelli, that could be a way, yes
[12:49] <ogra> abelli, but it still doesnt prevent you from making very bad errors that could render your system unusable
[12:50] <abelli> yeah as OS automation is not the optimum, but it should do the trick until someone (like sladen) come up with a better idea
[12:50] <ogra> abelli, for your example with /opt, the right fix in my eyes is to offer a rightclick item on tgz files to make them debian packages and a drag and drop function for synaptic to install this
[12:51] <ogra> then you dont need to copy software around manually
[12:51] <abelli> what about editing config files?
[12:51] <ogra> open with... gksudo gedit
[12:51] <abelli> this means that you, MOTUs, should review all the packages.
[12:51] <ogra> abelli, what for ? if the user created the package himself....
[12:51] <abelli> so you need to had an icon for "rootly gedit" ...
[12:52] <abelli> mmm ... i wasnt talking about /opt anymore ...
[12:52] <ogra> a right click option in the context menu
[12:52] <abelli> arent we going to have a 3 screens long context menu?
[12:54] <ogra> abelli, lets discuss thatafter release, there are only 3 days left until RC and we have a lot to do currently...
[12:54] <abelli> maybe a sort of standardization in config files, for the future, could help.
[12:54] <abelli> yep. sorry.
[12:54] <ogra> abelli, there is one ;) its called /etc
[12:56] <abelli> cmon you :))), i meant how files are parsed ... maybe using an ad-hoc xml-dialect (but its just an example)
[12:57] <abelli> let's call it ... Esperanto .
[12:57] <ogra> abelli, heh, convince debian to use that :-P
[12:57] <abelli> ok im turning my self off
[12:57] <ogra> i doubt you will get the several upstreams to use xml everywhere
[12:57] <abelli> you're debian, revolution starts from the bottom.
[12:58] <ogra> abelli, nope, im not a DD
[12:58] <abelli> ogra: ok, just become one, and starts to spread the virus.
[12:58] <abelli> :)
[12:58] <ogra> (being a ubuntu only maintainer is smoething i'm very proud of....)
[12:58] <abelli> and im with you in this ...
[12:58] <abelli> even if im not, but i would .
[12:59] <abelli> ok ill leave
[12:59] <abelli> you to your work.
[12:59] <ogra> MOTU can need every helping hand ;)
[01:03] <sladen> dholbach: interesting email about apt-get stuff...
[01:03] <dholbach> sladen: how do i have to interpret "interesting"? :-)
[01:03] <ogra> sladen, please comment it with your thoughts
[01:03] <abelli> ciao a tutti ppl, have a great day
[01:04] <ogra> ciao abelli :)
[01:04] <dholbach> abelli: you too
[01:08] <SlackShrike> hi
[01:08] <abelli> sorry im back but Treenaks is a kind of genius .
[01:09] <Lathiat> Sorry, he's not for sale
[01:09] <abelli> if  i pay someone of the motu, will a package like ubuntu-quotes be uploaded to universe? i mean after ubuntu-calendar, a database of quotes (taken from the ubuntu world) to sign our mail
[01:09] <abelli> would be great.
[01:09] <ogra> Lathiat, sure ?
[01:09] <abelli> Lathiat: really? doh ...
[01:09] <Lathiat> Sorry
[01:10] <dholbach> abelli: fortunes-ubuntu maybe?
[01:10] <Lathiat> selling free software devleopers good be lucrative :)
[01:10] <abelli> is it already there?
[01:10] <ogra> abelli, we work for free ;)
[01:10] <dholbach> no, not yet
[01:10] <abelli> dholbach: dehiho ...
[01:10] <abelli> because treenaks has called it the same way.
[01:11] <dholbach> apt-cache show fortunes
[01:11] <abelli> ahhh ok
[01:11] <abelli> yeah ...
[01:11] <abelli> ubuntu-pow
[01:12] <dholbach> so it'd be another package of "fortune cookies" :-)
[01:12] <abelli> pearls of wisdom
[01:12] <abelli> with a special brand : ubuntu.
[01:13] <trulux> pearls.tuxedo-es.org "the pearls of wisdom junk"
[01:13] <dholbach> hey seb128 
[01:13] <trulux> :)
[01:14] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[01:14] <abelli> seb128: ciao
[01:14] <seb128> hi
[01:14] <ogra> pitti, seen ubuntu-devel@ ?
[01:14] <pitti> not very thoroughly today
[01:14] <pitti> what in particular?
[01:14] <ogra> apt-get.org
[01:15] <pitti> yes, saw that
[01:15] <seb128> this list is getting to much noise
[01:15] <pitti> however, didn't reply yet
[01:15] <seb128> s/to/too/
[01:15] <pitti> ogra: dholbach is on crack, as I said :-)
[01:15] <ogra> heh
[01:15] <pitti> en-gross import of apt-get.org is utterly crazy
[01:15] <dholbach> pitti: how about some mud wrestling at UDU? :-)
[01:16] <dholbach> woohoo! :-)
[01:16] <abelli> dholbach: mind that pitti's karate kid v2 ...
[01:16] <dholbach> abelli: it's about fun, isnt it? :-)
[01:16] <pitti> Tae Kwon Do...
[01:17] <pitti> dholbach: I prefer Frozen Bubble :-)
[01:17] <abelli> pitti: sorry .. but i didnt know a famous actor that uses twd
[01:18] <dholbach> pitti: i just wanted to make sure everybody knew, it wasnt my idea in the first place  :-)
[01:19] <pitti> dholbach: I know, just kidding
[01:19] <dholbach> pitti: and if you encourage that rumour in any way, i'd have to frozen-bubble/mud-wrestle/xyz you :-)
[01:20] <pitti> dholbach: okay, let's blame seb128 then :-)
[01:20] <dholbach> oh no... not poor seb128... he took the panel blame already
[01:20] <abelli> ok ciao a tutti - again and definitely ciao
[01:21] <seb128> dholbach: which one ?
[01:21] <dholbach> seb128: the "seb128 broke my panel" one?
[01:21] <dholbach> :-)
[01:21] <seb128> ah ah
[01:21] <seb128> hum
[01:22] <seb128> that's turning to a bugzilla list
[01:22] <dholbach> seb128: it's a PITA if you read u-u@, u-bugs@ and the wiki as well :-)
[01:22] <trulux> dholbach: crack is a drug, steroids are a feature enhancement
[01:22] <trulux> :)
[01:23] <dholbach> trulux: roses are red and violets are blue, ...
[01:23] <dholbach> :-p
[01:23] <trulux> dholbach: and this is a cup of tea!
[01:23] <trulux> and a cookie
[01:23] <dholbach> yeah... thanks
[01:24] <dholbach> i guess we now solved the most important matters
[01:26] <daniels> HUZZAH!
[01:26] <daniels> mdz: 6.8.2-6 is good with the live CD
[01:26] <daniels> mdz: i mean, it doesn't work first off for me because of pci ids (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2827), but generates a correct config after having bullshit values seeded into xorg.conf and config.dat
[01:27] <trulux> damn PCI ids...
[01:27] <trulux> 1:3:3:7
[01:27] <trulux> :)
[01:27] <daniels> heh
[01:28] <ogra> daniels, what about nvidia cards and broken widescreen panel detection, is this fixed already ?
[01:28] <daniels> ogra: should be, yes
[01:28] <ogra> yeah
[01:28] <ogra> daniels, you ROCK ;)
[01:28] <daniels> most of the widescreen stuff was just lacking adequate modelines
[01:28] <daniels> i assume you mean https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7181
[01:30] <ogra> nearly...i'll pull down the liveCD today to test it here...(mine was always stuck at 1024x768 instead of 1280x800)
[01:30] <ogra> which   waseasy to solve with a modeline....so sounds very much like that
[01:31] <trulux> ogra: I was having problems with 1280x800 in my laptop
[01:31] <ogra> trulux, stuck at 1024x786 ?
[01:32] <ogra> 768...
[01:32] <trulux> I needed many time to get the right modeline, among that the HP jerks didn't know the specs of their own product when I asked them on the monitor sync interval
[01:32] <ogra> heh
[01:32] <trulux> ogra: no, I'm on my desktop now, this box is dumb fast, great cooling
[01:32] <ogra> i meant your laptop
[01:33] <trulux> but this makes me thinking that I should turn on the laptop and emerge sync && emerge -u world
[01:33] <ogra> heh
[01:33] <trulux> on the laptop I have now 1280x800 but the glx totally sucks
[01:33] <trulux> I see many lines around the screen when I try to get some glx working
[01:33] <trulux> and accel does not work at all, no DRI
[01:33] <daniels> ogra: yeah, I've added 1280x800 modelines
[01:34] <ogra> yippie
[01:34] <trulux> daniels: sounds good
[01:34] <trulux> should I give a f*ck to my laptop Gentoo? :)
[01:34] <daniels> and I'm really hoping that it fixes the last of the i8xx bugs as well
[01:34] <daniels> we'll see
[01:34] <ogra> trulux, the nvidia driver works just fine on mine, but since nvidia doesnt support suspend at all, i'm fine with nv
[01:35] <trulux> ogra: my laptop has ati mobility radeon 9000 agp 4x
[01:35] <ogra> trulux, ubuntu everywhere ;)
[01:35] <ogra> go on :)
[01:35] <trulux> ogra: right, except under my pants
[01:35] <ogra> sure ?
[01:35] <trulux> lemme check
[01:35] <trulux> sure
[01:35] <ogra> heh
[01:37] <trulux> oops, set_one_prio may need a new LSM hook :)
[01:43] <Mitario> hey everyone
[01:47] <ogra> guys please, please, please comment dholbachs apt-get.org mail, its important that we see as many opinions as possible
[01:53] <dholbach> hey mvo
[01:53] <mvo> hi dholbach 
[02:23] <mvo> ping seb128 
[02:23] <seb128> pong
[02:23] <mvo> seb128: mind if I upload a new gnome-applets package? that fixes the sudo problems with modem-applet?
[02:23] <seb128> not at all :)
[02:24] <mvo> seb128: thanks :) I'll upload it later then
[02:24] <seb128> np
[02:31] <seb128> anybody using vim here ? what's the way to close a file and to go to the next one when you have several files open ?
[02:32] <mvo> :n
[02:32] <seb128> thanks
[02:32] <Seveas> just like in less :)
[02:32] <mvo> seb128: are you testing gvim :) ? 
[02:33] <Seveas> seb128, opening them using :sp or :vs is a nice way too
[02:33] <seb128> mvo: I'm trying to change 30 po in a row to remove #~ before a translation
[02:34] <Seveas> seb128, sed?
[02:34] <seb128> emacs open them in po mode which is fine to edit a po but it doesn't want to change them
[02:34] <mvo> seb128: yes, that's anoying in emacs, I was bitten by it too
[02:34] <seb128> Seveas: that's an option too, but editing by hand is probably quicker
[02:35] <torkel> seb128: or :wn to save it and jump to next
[02:36] <ogra> yeah
[02:36] <seb128> I hate vim
[02:36] <seb128> hate hate hate
[02:36] <seb128> these :vdsogvsdj are bong
[02:37] <dholbach> seb128: how about vim-users--vs--emacs-users--beach-volleyball @UDU? :-p
[02:37] <seb128> you open a file and can't even enter something 
[02:37] <seb128> that's totally bong
[02:37] <mvo> football? 
[02:37] <mvo> ^ --- dholbach 
[02:37] <seb128> I don't care about emacs neither
[02:37] <dholbach> beach volleyball! woohoo!
[02:37] <seb128> but vim is bong
[02:37] <ajmitch> would have to be rugby
[02:37] <dholbach> yeah
[02:37] <daniels> mvo: you mean, http://www.afl.com.au?
[02:37] <daniels> boo to rugby
[02:38] <Seveas> boo to emacs :)
[02:38] <mvo> dholbach: your vim-user--vs-- looks like a tla/baz archive
[02:38] <mvo> bong@UDU/vim-users--vs--emacs-users--beach-volleyball
[02:38] <dholbach> mvo: sorry for that... didnt want to scare you
[02:39] <dholbach> the beachvolleyball idea was only about fun ;-)
[02:40] <torkel> dholbach: vi vs emacs is never about fun :-)
[02:40] <Seveas> lol
[02:40] <Seveas> vi vs emacs vs nano then
[02:41] <seb128> dholbach: that's not a "vs", but vim ...
[02:41] <seb128> bah, I've fixed the strings, whatever
[02:41] <dholbach> seb128, torkel: i don't really care about editors either :-)
[02:43] <seb128> jdub, mdz: can we get a "REOPEN" for bugzilla ?
[02:44] <dholbach> ogra_: you missed the  vim-users--vs--emacs-users--beach-volleyball @UDU thing :-)
[02:44] <ogra> YEAH
[02:44] <seb128> I don't like to be forced to accept a bug because it was NEEDINFO and there is no other way to get it of the status
[02:44] <ogra> dholbach, that sounds great !!
[02:54] <zul> i think you will find that they emacs users will be a bit under stength
[03:05] <Kamion> pitti: you should really include some content with your pings ;)
[03:05] <Kamion> pitti: sorry I wasn't around earlier, I haven't been feeling well
[03:08] <ogra> Kamion, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AptGetOrg see the "Clashes with our packages" section....
[03:15] <Kamion> ogra: I don't see any reason why we should import packages from apt-get.org that already exist in our repositories; I assume elmo has the sense to know that
[03:17] <ogra> Kamion, we only assumed that it clashes, nobody of the MOTU does know the installer stuff good enough.....i'm fearing it might break something....
[03:17] <ogra> even if it doesnt clash
[03:20] <Kamion> ogra: AFAIK Joey Hess' repository is just a copy of stuff he's also uploaded to Debian
[03:20] <Kamion> ogra: under no circumstances should any installer packages be synced
[03:20] <Kamion> (from there)
[03:21] <ogra> Kamion, ok...thanks for elaborating....nobody of MOTU could make that decision....
[03:42] <mvo> ping thom 
[03:44] <daniels> Kamion: yeah, I was curious to see if my xfree86 repositories were still there
[03:44] <daniels> mercifully, they weren't
[03:44] <mantiena> Hi all
[03:52] <pitti> Kamion: I didn't understand why the ia64 image is too big...
[03:52] <pitti> Kamion: second, I wanted to ask whether you already have the German d-i translations
[03:54] <Kamion> pitti: almost, there are still some fuzzies and one untranslated
[03:56] <pitti> Kamion: okay, I do the rest tomorrow
[03:58] <thom> mvo: yo
[03:59] <mvo> thom: IIRC you modified yelp to know about other installed documentation? if so, could you please have a look at #8194? 
[04:00] <daniels> jbailey: did you ever get to have a look at that modified radeon_drv.o?
[04:00] <jbailey> daniels: I tried it in with a few different combinations of modelines and stuff and it didn't seem to work.
[04:01] <jbailey> daniels: I didn't want to declare it as non-working without chatting with you first, though.
[04:01] <jbailey> I tried to look up what the modelines or sync ranged ought to be, and found a pile of conflicting answers. =(
[04:02] <daniels> jbailey: hm. :\
[04:03] <daniels> jbailey: if you could try the new radeon_drv.o with ModeLine "1680x1050"  147.14  1680 1784 1968 2256  1050 1051 1054 1087 (if it is indeed 1680x1050) and let me know if that works for you (if not, send along a /var/log/Xorg.0.log), that'd be great
[04:03] <jbailey> daniels: If you'd like, I can wire up that computer now and hack, or arrange to do so tongiht.
[04:03] <daniels> jbailey: it's not urgent, just sort of a morbid curiousity
[04:03] <thom> mvo: sure
[04:03] <daniels> it's pretty much the only case where radeon doesn't Just Work these days
[04:03] <mantiena> mdz: hi, you told, that udev config file patch for firewire device (see bug #3609 ) should be applied to ubuntu hoary, but it seems firewire devices still doesn't work with ubuntu :( Maybe you could apply fix from bug #3609 to udev package ?
[04:03] <jbailey> daniels: Well, I'd really like to to work if you have the time.  It's a shame to have a lovely monitor here and have that box in text mode.
[04:04] <mvo> thom: I wonder if I register the documentation wrong in some way, would be nice if you have a idea. if not, I'll look seriously into it tomorrow
[04:04] <dholbach> bbl
[04:04] <mvo> bye dholbach 
[04:04] <jbailey> daniels: I'm sort of here and there today, but I have a few things that I want to do workwise, so I can match whatever schedule you need if you have time.
[04:05] <thom> mvo: i'll check in a second; i suspect it's a problem with the omf generation in doc-base, personally
[04:05] <mvo> thom: thanks! there is no hurry :) 
[04:07] <daniels> jbailey: sure.  i'll be heading off as soon as i upload xorg for tonight (it's 0007 on a public holiday, and i've been involuntarily nodding off all day), but should be back in about 10-11h if you're around?
[04:08] <infinity> jbailey : Will you run screaming if I utter the term "refcount"?
[04:08] <jbailey> Yeah, sounds lovely.  I'll probably be at the gym around then, but can be bck right after it.
[04:08] <daniels> jbailey: sure, well I'll be around for more or less the whole day after that, so I'll catch up with you then
[04:09] <jbailey> infinity: No, I'd reply 'begone and come back in 6 weeks when we have a new glibc'.  There's no refcounting bug that's lasted this long that is going to get fixed for either hoary or sarge.
[04:09] <jbailey> daniels: Lovely.  Beau rves!
[04:09] <jbailey> infinity: In 6 weeks, I'll run screaming. =)
[04:10] <infinity> jbailey : I'm beginning to suspect it never got fixed at all.  And I don't think it is in 2.3.4 either.
[04:10] <jbailey> infinity: Nasty.
[04:10] <infinity> jbailey : The stars must have been aligned when gotom previously "fixed" it and we all signed off on it.  If I build a chroot from October last year, it's still there, and it's still there on current Sid.
[04:11] <infinity> jbailey : And Hoary, for that matter.
[04:12] <jbailey> infinity: I hate to say it, but then it's not a regression against Warty for us.  I'd truly love to fix it, but I don't have the time right at the moment to dive through the linker.  If it's in currenty 2.3.4 I can make it urgent for right after Hoary releases.
[04:13] <jbailey> infinity: If the fix is clean,  I can ever ask for it to go into hoary-updates and warty-updates.
[04:13] <jbailey> s/ever/even/
[04:14] <infinity> jbailey : Yeah, I'll see what I can work up in my personal time.  I didn't assume it'd be Hoary-urgent either.
[04:15] <jbailey> infinity: Well, I would like to learn that part of the linker.  It was impossible for me to learn it in 5 minutes here and there around my previous IT job and gotom wound up tackling it.
[04:15] <jbailey> So if you don't have time, don't feel bad. =)
[04:16] <infinity> The only thing I feel bad about is the Woody->Sarge regression, but I'm more than happy just telling people to upgrade to apache2, which "fixes" the bug.
[04:16] <jbailey> infinity: Can you put something in bugzilla, and call it major and target it to 5.10?  It'd be nice to have running commentary if you do wind up working on it, and I can do the same there.
[04:17] <jbailey> infinity: If I can get it done before sarge freezes, I'm sure Steve will accept it. =)
[04:18] <infinity> jbailey : I'll do something about it in a day or so, when I'm back on a real network.
[04:18] <jbailey> infinity: Thanks.
[04:18] <Mithrandir> jbailey: any chance of getting the multiarch ld patch applied for sarge? :)
[04:19] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Yes, it's one of the dpatch's that I need to contrib back to Debian.  I have 3 or 4.
[04:19] <jbailey> Mithrandir: We went through the list as a group late last week.
[04:19] <jbailey> (On #d-glibc)
[04:19] <Mithrandir> jbailey: I'm just afraid of missing the freeze.
[04:19] <jbailey> Steve knows that it's coming.
[04:20] <Mithrandir> jbailey: oh, ok.  I didn't notice, was probably away.
[04:20] <jbailey> Right.
[04:20] <Mithrandir> but if you are handling it, I'll stop prodding
[04:20] <jbailey> No, it's all good feel free to prod. =)
[04:21] <Mithrandir> ook
[04:39] <fabbione> mako: hey guys
[04:39] <fabbione> ops
[04:39] <fabbione> hey guys
[04:39] <daniels> hey fabbione
[04:39] <fabbione> hey dude
[04:40] <fabbione> what's up?
[04:40] <daniels> sup?
[04:40] <daniels> nommuch, just about to upload a new xorg and head to bed
[04:40] <fabbione> nm.. just come back from a long walk around cph
[04:40] <daniels> cool, where'd you walk to?
[04:40] <fabbione> daniels: did you coordinate with mdz?
[04:40] <daniels> fabbione: he wants it uploaded asap
[04:40] <daniels> and this one works fine with the live cd
[04:40] <fabbione> daniels: in the north part, beaches and stuff like that
[04:40] <daniels> and fixes a *lot* of bugs
[04:40] <daniels> ah, awesome
[04:40] <fabbione> daniels: ah ok :-)
[04:41] <daniels> i didn't get to see too much of the northern part while i was there
[04:41] <daniels> mainly down south
[04:41] <fabbione> yeah
[04:41] <fabbione> the north part is a bit far
[04:41] <fabbione> both by car and by public transport
[04:42] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I found my fleece neck, btw.
[04:42] <daniels> fabbione: ah, ok
[04:42] <daniels> that'd be it, then ;)
[04:43] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ah good
[04:43] <fabbione> daniels: ehehe
[04:43] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i was sure it wasn't in the car
[04:45] <fabbione> let see.. this should be the final build for 386-xen0 :-)
[04:45] <fabbione> xen is nice, but it lacks support for a lot of stuff
[04:48] <fabbione> Kamion: around?
[04:48] <fabbione> daniels: btw.. i had some weird ideas about the multiarse setup....
[04:48] <Kamion> fabbione: yo?
[04:48] <fabbione> daniels: xen might solve most of our problems...
[04:49] <daniels> fabbione: i haven't played around much with xen, nor do i really know much about what it is ...
[04:49] <fabbione> Kamion: yo.. i did see the 2 d-i uploads, but didn't notice anything about sparc. mind to queue the silo ramdisk_size for the next one?
[04:49] <fabbione> daniels: it's like an e10k in software. Hardware partitioning basically
[04:49] <Kamion> fabbione: what do I need to do?
[04:49] <fabbione> [main kernel]  <-> [N child kernels] 
[04:50] <fabbione> Kamion: for some reason the calculated size was too small (d-i -21)
[04:50] <daniels> fabbione: ah, crack
[04:51] <Robot101> if anyone can think of a cool PhD for me to do based around Xen, let me know :P
[04:51] <daniels> fabbione: so what, run one session in each kernel?
[04:51] <fabbione> Kamion: i think forcing it to 32Mb should be opk
[04:51] <fabbione> daniels: yes, but each kernel has restricted access to assigned hardware
[04:51] <fabbione> daniels: that would solve the problems configuring X for example
[04:51] <fabbione> daniels: since it doesn't need to be special cased
[04:52] <daniels> right
[04:52] <fabbione> on the otherside installation of a xen environment is more complicated.
[04:52] <fabbione> but there are several benefits imho
[04:52] <fabbione> like separate upgrades on each virtual machine
[04:52] <Robot101> fabbione: what's your particular application?
[04:53] <fabbione> Robot101: for xen? right now i am evaluating the option to use it for my server
[04:53] <fabbione> that is running N services, and split them in virtual machines
[04:53] <fabbione> kinda of very hard chroot
[04:53] <Robot101> yeah
[04:53] <fabbione> isolating domain0 for world
[04:54] <fabbione> and allow access to it only via console
[04:54] <fabbione> that could reduce the introsion to one execution domain
[04:54] <Robot101> xen has attracted a lot of funding along these lines, and being able to migrate running domains between machines
[04:55] <fabbione> Robot101: that too. i still need to investigate that option
[04:55] <fabbione> right now i am making installable decent kernels :-)
[04:55] <mako> fabbione: oi
[04:55] <Robot101> xubuntu! :)
[04:55] <mdke> is jdub around?
[04:55] <fabbione> Robot101: ehhe, as soon as hoary is out, i will upload the kernels
[04:56] <fabbione> mako: sorry.. i didn't want to disturb.. just a wrong tab completion
[04:57] <mako> :)
[04:57] <fabbione> anyway there are still a lot of limitation for 2.6.10
[04:57] <fabbione> i need to check what's in bk
[05:00] <daniels> mdke: unlikely, it's 1am on a public holiday
[05:00] <Simira> fabbione: hi there! How's life?
[05:00] <mdke> daniels, heh
[05:00] <Mithrandir> Robot101: would xubuntu be ubuntu sans gnome, kde and just plain X?
[05:00] <mdke> daniels, doesn't the same apply to you?
[05:01] <fabbione> hey Simira !
[05:01] <Robot101> Mithrandir: no, with xen so it runs all three at the same time! :)
[05:01] <Mithrandir> Robot101: scary. :)
[05:01] <fabbione> Simira: everything is fine, thanks! how was your holiday?
[05:01] <Kamion> fabbione: I'll see if I can find out why the calculated size was too small, first
[05:01] <Simira> fabbione: wonderful, and a bit tiresome. Now we're home, at last.
[05:02] <Simira> fabbione: did Mithrandir tell you what he did last sunday morning?
[05:02] <daniels> mdke: yeah
[05:02] <fabbione> Kamion: sure, but since it is not important, please do not spend too much time. If it is hidden just force it to 32
[05:02] <fabbione> Simira: no, he didn't :-)
[05:03] <fabbione> Simira: what did he do?
[05:04] <Simira> fabbione: not? He proposed. I was dieing to tell you, but some other people should be told before others, so...
[05:04] <fabbione> AHAH GREAT!
[05:04] <fabbione> Mithrandir!!!!
[05:05] <fabbione> Simira: of course, i understand :)
[05:05] <daniels> congratulations, guys
[05:05] <mvo> congratulations!
[05:05] <Simira> thanks :)
[05:05] <fabbione> Mithrandir: now.. didn't I teach you anything of life???
[05:06] <fabbione> Mithrandir: didn't you see ME while you were here?
[05:06] <sabdfl> HAPPY EASTER everybody
[05:06] <fabbione> hey sabdfl !
[05:06] <fabbione> thanks same there
[05:06] <Simira> fabbione: he went out to get our kebab order ;)
[05:06] <fabbione> Simira: ah ok :-)
[05:06] <fabbione> i will tease him later
[05:06] <daniels> sabdfl: happy chocolate weekend
[05:06] <Simira> happy easter, yes! :)
[05:06] <mvo> thanks sabdfl, happy easter to you too :)
[05:06] <ogra> hey sabdfl 
[05:06] <ogra> happy easter
[05:06] <daniels> (my little sister has been sugar-rushing all weekend; i don't like chocolate, so she grabbed most of the eggs i got from various people)
[05:06] <Simira> fabbione: you're welcome ;p
[05:07] <fabbione> Simira: eheheh
[05:07] <Simira> daniels: hey, I'll be glad to take them
[05:07] <daniels> Simira: sadly I fear they may perish in the process of getting to you
[05:07] <ogra> Mithrandir, Simira coangrats
[05:07] <ogra> -a
[05:11] <Simira> thanks, all
[05:11] <Simira> fabbione: *sigh* a kebab costs almost three times as much here as in Copenhagen
[05:11] <crimsun> that's wonderful :)
[05:11] <fabbione> Simira: yay!
[05:11] <daniels> Simira: did you guys try the bella burger while you were in cph?
[05:11] <fabbione> Simira: i love kebab, but i don't eat out so often..
[05:12] <fabbione> daniels: no we didn't get to it :(
[05:12] <Simira> fabbione: neither do we
[05:12] <fabbione> daniels: they were here only 2 days
[05:12] <daniels> ahr :\
[05:12] <Simira> daniels: nope. three days, btw. But still :p
[05:12] <fabbione> bella burgers ++
[05:12] <daniels> heh
[05:12] <daniels> those burgers are crack
[05:12] <Simira> but we (I) got a lot of LEGO and DVD's
[05:12] <fabbione> they are awesome
[05:12] <daniels> yeah
[05:12] <fabbione> I got LEGO for easter :-)
[05:12] <Simira> oh!
[05:12] <Simira> lucky you!
[05:13] <fabbione> instead of the usual eggs
[05:13] <Simira> we got red roses, from my parents :)
[05:13] <fabbione> my wife seems to like the nerd inside me :)
[05:13] <Simira> and safran and tea from Egypt
[05:13] <fabbione> Simira: nice
[05:13] <Simira> fabbione: I bet she does
[05:13] <daniels> fabbione: i had the mosskito grill the other day, which was about eur14 (dkk64?) for something way way bigger than the bella burger ... sausage patty, skinless sausages, chicken, huuuuge pork ribs, capsicum, chips, and a couple of sauces.  finishing that was way harder than the double bella.
[05:14] <fabbione> ahhhhh
[05:14] <fabbione> that sounds cool
[05:14] <daniels> yeah
[05:14] <fabbione> (106 DKK)
[05:14] <daniels> they also have a chicken parmiagana that's pretty much bigger than my head
[05:14] <fabbione> well that's not difficult
[05:14] <daniels> oh, 1eur -> 8dkk, not 6
[05:15] <fabbione> considering that is' empty
[05:15] <daniels> yeah, but that's maybe 50 dkk :)
[05:15] <fabbione> 7.57
[05:15] <daniels> haha ... it's empty, but very very big
[05:15] <fabbione> daniels: tbh i think that if you have an idea, it would die of lonliness in your head :P
[05:15] <daniels> heh
[05:15] <daniels> i love you too, man :P
[05:16] <fabbione> ahha
[05:17] <fabbione> let me take some coffee
[05:22] <sabdfl> i love the smell of chocolate in the morning
[05:22] <thom> sabdfl: you never went to school past a mars factory, then
[05:30] <Mithrandir> daniels: I can courier chocolate from you to Simira, no problem. :)
[05:31] <Simira> :)
[05:31] <fabbione> Mithrandir: bad boy!
[05:31] <fabbione> ;)
[05:31] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I'm nowhere as fond of chocolate as Simira, so most of it would arrive safely.
[05:32] <Simira> most of it...?
[05:32] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i am talking about you proposing Simira :)
[05:32] <Mithrandir> fabbione: oh, :)
[05:32] <thom> Mithrandir, Simira: congrats!
[05:32] <Mithrandir> thanks to all of you :)
[05:32] <fabbione> did you learn anything from our day in cph? :P
[05:32] <Mithrandir> fabbione: yeah, you have a lovely wife.
[05:32] <Simira> :D
[05:32] <Mithrandir> so I wanted one for myself. ;)
[05:33] <ogra> heh
[05:35] <Simira> fabbione: no worries, I'll take good care of him
[05:35] <Simira> fabbione: and make sure he takes good care of me
[05:35] <fabbione> Simira: if you are not going to do so, you might wake in the morning with a head of a horse in the bed :P
[05:35] <Simira> fabbione: I promise!!!!
[05:36] <fabbione> good girl
[05:36] <Mithrandir> Simira: just don't use multiple exclamation marks and all will be well. :)
[05:36] <Simira> Mithrandir: you wouldn't let him do that to me, would you?
[05:36] <Mithrandir> Simira: *hugs*
[05:36] <Simira> Mithrandir: you didn't answer....
[05:37] <Mithrandir> Simira: of course I wouldn't
[05:37] <fabbione> hmmm i think your life is going to DEVELop in a interesting way with the upcoming wedding ;)
[05:38] <mako> mdz: around yet?
[05:44] <sid77> hi
[05:47] <sabdfl> hey mako
[05:48] <mako> sabdfl: hola
[05:48] <mdz> mako: yep
[05:49] <mako> mdz: wanted to know if you needed anything from me (e.g., release announcement) for the RC
[05:50] <mdz> mako: an announcement would be great
[05:50] <mako> mdz: i told jane already but i'm probably going to be offline for 24hours starting this evening
[05:50] <lu|sleep> mako: driving to DC?
[05:50] <mako> mdz: ok cool.. i'll do it today
[05:50] <mako> lu|sleep: bus down, sleeping in front of the court, bus back :)
[05:51] <lu|sleep> hrm
[05:51] <lu|sleep> _hrm_
[05:51] <lu|sleep> __hrm__
[05:51] <lu|sleep> I nearly emailed you on Friday about that
[05:51] <lu|sleep> I saw wendy's blog
[05:51] <lu|sleep> (see that last bit?)
[05:52] <mako_> ok.. maybe i miseed something there
 I nearly emailed you on Friday about that
 I saw wendy's blog
[05:53] <mako_> was i on wendy's blog?
[05:53] <lu|sleep> no
[05:53] <lu|sleep> but she is going down
[05:53] <lu|sleep> well, going east for her
[05:53] <mdz> mako_: what's gonig on at the court?
[05:53] <mako_> oh yeah, tons of people are going down
[05:53] <mako_> mdz: grokster v. mgm
[05:53] <lu|sleep> I had an inkling you might do the same
[05:53] <mako_> probably the most important technology case in front of the supreme court since betamax
[05:54] <mako_> i figured i needed to go :)
[05:54] <mako_> lu|sleep: my friend seth has been pestering me to go for MONTHS
[05:55] <lu|sleep> finkelstein? or a different seth?
[05:55] <mako_> schoen
[05:55] <lu|sleep> ah.
[05:55] <mako_> eff technologist
[05:55] <mako_> i also know finkelstein and he may also be there, but we're not really good friends
[05:56] <fabbione> YAY!!!
[05:56] <lu|sleep> yeah, I know of seth schoen
[05:56] <mdz> jbailey: ping?
[05:56] <fabbione> 386-xen0_i386.deb
[05:56] <mako_> nice :)
[05:56] <mdz> sabdfl: welcome back
[05:57] <Kamion> mdz: I'm finishing up the weekend's round of installer translations now
[05:57] <daniels> mdz: good morning
[05:58] <mdz> daniels: morning, is 6.8.2-6 on the way up?
[05:58] <daniels> mdz: working its way there, yes
[05:59] <mako__> dude...
[05:59] <Kamion> -msgstr "Whlen Sie den nchsten Installationsschritt:"
[05:59] <Kamion> +msgstr "Whlen Sie den nchsten Installationsschritt:"
[05:59] <Kamion> argh, what has happened to the encoding in this file? it's not just UTF-8 encoding of ISO-8859-15, I don't think
[06:00] <lu|sleep> mako__: your network problems are worse than mine
[06:00] <lu|sleep> :)
[06:02] <mdke> hi guys. for the last two days i've had MD5SUM mismatch errors when I apt-get update from the main ubuntu mirror and the gb. mirror. Just tried the us mirror and it works
[06:02] <mdke> is this worth reporting anywhere?
[06:10] <mdke> anyone know?
[06:11] <trulux> mdke: same here, solved now
[06:11] <trulux> it seems at least
[06:11] <mdke> oh
[06:13] <mdke> gb still has that issue
[06:15] <mako> man, i never liked those guys anyway
[06:15] <mdke> LOL
[06:21] <mantiena> mdz: hi, you told, that udev config file patch for firewire device (see bug #3609 ) should be applied to ubuntu hoary, but it seems firewire devices still doesn't work with ubuntu :( Maybe you could apply fix from bug #3609 to udev package ?
[06:22] <seb128> Kamion: when have you planned to do translations update for the installer ?
[06:23] <fabbione> mantiena: afaik jbailey is looking at it
[06:25] <mantiena> fabbione: really ? it would be very nice to have working firewire in ubuntu ;)
[06:27] <fabbione> mantiena: you mentioned this bug already several times. yes, it will be fixed for hoary. don't worry
[06:28] <mvo> hey Mitario 
[06:28] <Mitario> hi everyone
[06:28] <Mitario> hi mvo :-)
[06:30] <mvo> Mitario: what was the url for your update-manager website again :) ?
[06:30] <mvo> Mitario: I was asked about it today and I couldn't remember :/ (and I'm away from my home-computer)
[06:32] <Mitario> mvo, the website is a bit messed up atm :( sorry, i'm moving some pages to a wiki
[06:32] <Mitario> mvo, the page was hosted at my weblog, but i've been working on it this week
[06:33] <Mitario> however if he's looking for a tarball, then it's still http://eyesopened.nl/~michiel/update-manager/
[06:33] <mdz> mantiena: if you are concerned about bugs in Hoary, please consider ones with severity 'critical' first
[06:36] <mvo> Mitario: ok, thanks
[06:48] <mantiena> fabbione: thanks for info
[06:48] <mdz> daniels: to where are you uploading 6.8.2-6?
[06:48] <mdz> I thought you said the upload was in progress
[06:49] <Kamion> seb128: I'm doing them now, got your mail and will include that
[06:51] <Kamion> seb128: oh, I see that's only base-config
[06:52] <Kamion> +"Certains logiciels limits peuvent fonctionner avec Ubuntu. Bien qu'ils ne "
[06:52] <Kamion> +"fassent pas partie de Ubuntu, les outils habituels peuvent tre utiliss "
[06:52] <Kamion> seb128: should that be "... pas partie d'Ubuntu"?
[06:53] <seb128> it is
[06:53] <Kamion> ok, I'll make sure that's changed throughout base-config
[06:53] <seb128> I'm sending shadow now, and I'll start installer-po then
[06:54] <Kamion> I'll go out to the shops before doing the upload orgy then
[06:54] <seb128> hum, I've used a "de Ubuntu", or that's an auto-change from Debian ?
[06:54] <seb128> k, thanks
[06:54] <Kamion> that was almost certainly my fault when branding
[06:54] <daniels> mdz: the upload itself is not actually in progress, no; i had to tweak one variable, as it happened
[06:55] <mdz> ah
[06:55] <daniels> mdz: if i'd already uploaded it, i'd not still be awake
[06:55] <seb128> mdz: hi. Can we get a "REOPEN" in bugzilla ? :)
[06:55] <daniels> hopefully this build will be quicker now that I haven't got a gnome-terminal session leaking 500MB of ram
[06:56] <daniels> seb128: g-t!  leaky!
[06:56] <mdz> seb128: bugzilla already has a REOPEN
[06:56] <seb128> mdz: since when ?
[06:56] <daniels> seb128: errr, we've always had reopen
[06:56] <mdz> seb128: since we installed it
[06:56] <daniels> seb128: with a reopened state, as well
[06:56] <mdz> and before
[06:57] <xuzo> i found a partial fix for the close-lid-crashes-x (#6993)
[06:58] <mdz> xuzo: great, please add the information to Bugzilla
[06:58] <seb128> daniels, mdz ? from NEEDINFO I've: ASSIGNED, UPSTREAM, FIXED/..., DUPLICATE, Reassign to, Reassign to QA 
[06:59] <seb128> my account is broken or what ?
[06:59] <xuzo> mdz: I think my fix is not very... ortodox
[06:59] <seb128> I don't have a REOPEN, do you want a screenshot ? :)
[06:59] <mdz> seb128: you can only reopen a closed bug
[06:59] <seb128> yeah, and I want to reopen a NEEDINFO
[06:59] <mdz> seb128: how can you reopen a bug which is already open? :-)
[07:00] <xuzo> i wish to comment it with someone
[07:00] <seb128> I don't want to ACCEPT it to get it out of NEEDINFO
[07:00] <seb128> I want NEEDINFO to NEW
[07:00] <seb128> even if that's not REOPEN
[07:00] <mdz> ok, I understand
[07:00] <seb128> I mean user provide details, that's not a NEEDINFO, I don't want to ACCEPT IT .. so what ?
[07:00] <daniels> i think if you reassign it to someone random, then back to yourself, it should land in NEW (and not ASSIGNED)
[07:01] <mdz> if details are provided and the report is complete, why not ACCEPT?
[07:01] <seb128> because it's not for me
[07:01] <seb128> ACCEPT mean that I'm going to fix it
[07:01] <daniels> xuzo: if you provide the details of the fix on the bug, then that will probably help me find out what the real problem is
[07:01] <mdz> seb128: I don't think we should put more work into fixing bugzilla's workflow, when we will be moving to Malone soon
[07:01] <mdz> seb128: MOTU are already using malone
[07:01] <seb128> k
[07:02] <xuzo> daniels: I'm adding a comment at this moment on bugzilla
[07:02] <daniels> xuzo: ok, thanks
[07:04] <daniels> seb128: (the other hackish 'solution' is to close the bug and then reopen it)
[07:05] <seb128> daniels: atm I leave them as NEEDINFO and forget about them, which is not ideal :/
[07:07] <xuzo> daniels: done
[07:07] <thom> redhat's bugzilla auto takes it out of needinfo and returns it to the previous state when more info is added, i believe
[07:07] <daniels> xuzo: thanks
[07:07] <fabbione> mdz: i think 6531 can be closed from our bugzilla
[07:08] <daniels> xuzo: oh, fglrx
[07:08] <daniels> xuzo: fglrx is really broken with suspending anyway
[07:08] <mdz> fabbione: 6531 is a bazaar bug
[07:08] <daniels> xuzo: but i think that specific bug has been fixed upstream in a newer version, regardless
[07:08] <daniels> mdz: getting an xorg-driver-fglrx module in bz would be nice
[07:11] <fabbione> mdz: well malone claims that the bug is Severity Normal
[07:11] <fabbione> mdz: i think we should at least allign the 2 :-)
[07:11] <mdz> daniels: hmm, my component sync tool doesn't look at restricted yet
[07:12] <mdz> fabbione: let's worry about Ubuntu bugs, and let the Arch team worry about Bazaar bugs :-)
[07:12] <fabbione> mdz: yes.. but due to the former that i found the latter :-) and reducing critical or higher from 10 to 9 looks nicer :)
[07:13] <Kamion> seb128: thanks, merged both base-config and shadow translations
[07:14] <fabbione> infinity: ping?
[07:14] <daniels> fabbione: it's 0314
[07:14] <xuzo> re
[07:14] <trulux> are there any thoughts on upgrading PAM for Breezy?
[07:14] <mdz> fabbione: limit your search to product 'Ubuntu'
[07:15] <fabbione> mdz: yeah that too
[07:15] <seb128> Kamion: thank you. base-config should here in ~20min
[07:15] <xuzo> daniels: you are right, the problem is fglrx, now I am using "ati" driver and lid.sh works fine, chvt include. Sorry about the false alarm :(
[07:15] <daniels> xuzo: no worries
[07:16] <mdz> daniels: xorg-driver-fglrx added
[07:16] <daniels> thanks
[07:17] <fabbione> hey pitti
[07:17] <trulux> pitti: heya
[07:17] <pitti> 'lo everybody
[07:18] <fabbione> pitti: where is my daily dildo? ;)=
[07:18] <ogra> heh
[07:18] <trulux> fabbione: it's connected to the 2nd usb port
[07:19] <seb128> Kamion: installer I mean
[07:20] <ogra> mdz, just fixing the last remaining bug in hwdb-gui before i get on with the server/client code, could you post the output of "cat /proc/asound/card0/id", since i got no card around where it occurs...
[07:20] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~% cat /proc/asound/card0/id
[07:20] <daniels> I82801DBICH4
[07:20] <fabbione> FLY SPARC!
[07:21] <mdz> mizar:[~]  cat /proc/asound/card0/id
[07:21] <mdz> rev50
[07:21] <fabbione> it's building universe at light speed and main is all synced
[07:21] <ogra> daniels, yeah, yours looks good, mdz has a (rev 0) anywhere behind the name...
[07:21] <ogra> mdz, thats all ??
[07:21] <mdz> ogra: yes, I guess it's an ALSA problem then
[07:21] <ogra> yup
[07:21] <ogra> ok, so i consider that one fixed for hwdb-gui then :-D
[07:22] <mdz> yep
[07:22] <fabbione> offtopic: earth quake in indonesia
[07:22] <ogra> yippie, on to the server code
[07:22] <mdz> client/server is more important than any UI issues at this point; that is the top priority
[07:22] <fabbione> (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/recenteqsww/Quakes/usweax.htm)
[07:22] <mako> mdz: so, i just got an email to info@ubuntulinux suggesting that we just build ubuntu on gentoo
[07:22] <ogra> mdz, starting now....and wont stop until its done
[07:22] <mako> mdz: should i add this to the TB agenda? :)
[07:22] <ogra> argh
[07:22] <mdz> mako: I got a bug report that we should just use autopackage instead of the existing packaging tools
[07:23] <zul> mako: umm..no..
[07:23] <ogra> argh++
[07:23] <daniels> fabbione: shit, hit in the same place again
[07:23] <fabbione> daniels: yes and it has been pretty hard.
[07:23] <fabbione>  MAGNITUDE   -  8.5
[07:23] <thom> mdz: we have two days to RC, plenty of time
[07:23] <mako> mdz: is it possible for a bug report itself to be a bug
[07:23] <fabbione> thom: isn't RC tomorrow?
[07:23] <mdz> we're building RC tomorrow for release Wednesday
[07:24] <pitti> fabbione: sorry, no new crack today for you :-)
[07:24] <fabbione> mdz: ah... ok.. and i was holding up -32 because i had the idea that it was tomorrow
[07:24] <fabbione> mdz: well with +24 hours we can get -32 in for RC and i am happy with it for final
[07:25] <mdz> fabbione: consider it tomorrow
[07:25] <fabbione> mdz: ok.
[07:25] <mdz> because we do not want to be making changes tomorrow while we are building and testing
[07:25] <fabbione> mdz: sure, but i can test/upload this evening. in both cases i am happy as it is
[07:25] <mdz> fabbione: there is time to upload -32 today if it is simple and safe
[07:26] <fabbione> mdz: want to see changelog and diff?
[07:26] <fabbione> Kamion: do you plan a d-i upload tomorrow?
[07:26] <Goshawk> does anybody know something about this problem? (t_kernel_font: invalid argument) (during boot)
[07:27] <Goshawk> it seems a error of k7 ubuntu kernels
[07:33] <fabbione> mdz: i will wait with -32, just in case something else shows up.
[07:33] <fabbione> mdz: one day won't make the difference
[07:33] <fabbione> and rush is not wise at this point in time
[07:33] <fabbione> pitti: thanks :-)
[07:34] <mako> ok.. we have the names of the images for kubuntu been changed yet?
[07:35] <mako> i got a report today about a mirror who has already screwed them up
[07:35] <mako> :-(
[07:35] <mako> the guy only figured it out because of the md5sum
[07:39] <lamont> mako: I see no evidence of a change
[07:40] <mako> lamont: neither do i.. but i heard it talked about
[07:40] <mako> i sent a message to the admins
[07:40] <mako> my complaint has been lodged
[07:43] <seb128> Kamion: is "Kill switch enabled on ${iface}" visible during the standard installation ? I don't understand it
[07:44] <fabbione> elmo: ping?
[07:44] <daniels> seb128: depends -- it's wireless stuff
[07:44] <daniels> seb128: some wireless chipsets have a hardware switch that completely disables the wireless interface; this is called the kill switch
[07:45] <seb128> oh, thanks
[07:45] <trulux> daniels: some laptops have problems with it, people talk sometimes on the need of booting with winxp and rebooting into GNU/Linux for being able to use the wireless card
[07:45] <fabbione> hey lamont 
[07:46] <trulux> daniels: are those issues solved?
[07:46] <daniels> mdz: there you go, xorg 6.8.2-6 uploaded to jackass.
[07:46] <daniels> trulux: should be, yeah (with hoary, at least)
[07:46] <lamont> morning fabbione 
[07:46] <fabbione> daniels: good night :-)
[07:46] <Lathiat> daniels: its better in my timezone its only 1:46 :)
[07:46] <pitti> lamont: #8277 -> may it be that the blacklist does not contain kde-i18n-* on some buildds?
[07:47] <fabbione> lamont: i am taking a look at 7846
[07:47] <trulux> daniels: good :)
[07:51] <lamont> pitti: a couple do not.  but then a couple of adjacent buildds have it twice to make up for it... :-(  Fixing
[07:52] <lamont> pitti: fixed
[07:52] <pitti> lamont: great, thanks
[07:52] <pitti> amu: here?
[07:54] <amu> jep
[07:54] <pitti> amu: can you please reupload kde-i18n to get an unstripped version?
[07:55] <amu> pitti: ah, now i remember why i'm looking for you some hourse ago :)
[07:56] <pitti> amu: I reassigned #8277 to you as a reminder
[07:56] <amu> pitti: will tell haggai about it, the did the last upload 
[07:56] <amu> the/he
[07:56] <pitti> amu: okay, please re-reassign then :-)
[07:57] <lamont> fabbione: no evidence in daemon.log to indicate two buildd's running - just double checked
[07:58] <fabbione> lamont: i am just curious to see if i can reproduce it or something.
[07:59] <fabbione> lamont: if 3/3 can't reproduce, we can atleast downgrade the severity
[07:59] <lamont> fabbione: yeah, certainly
[07:59] <carlos> pitti, amu: kde i18n setup is going to be "funny" while we add support in Rosetta for it
[08:00] <fabbione> lamont: i just forgot to update my box in ages :-) it's taking time to get to debootstrap and do a clean chroot :)
[08:01] <lamont> usually a good idea
[08:01] <lamont> 358 upgraded, 13 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[08:01] <lamont> hrm... sounds like about time here, too
[08:03] <lamont> -6 better fix things...
[08:09] <Kamion> fabbione: probably tonight
[08:09] <Kamion> seb128: the string immediately following that one has more detail, too
[08:09] <fabbione> Kamion: ok thanks. but i decided to wait for the kernel after RC
[08:10] <mvo> bbl
[08:21] <seb128> Kaloz: yeah, I've sent an updated po, I didn't now about this switch
[08:21] <seb128> ups
[08:21] <seb128> s/Kaloz/Kamion
[08:30] <mdz> lamont: ETA for xorg builds on first-class citizens?
[08:30] <mdz> I'll want to roll cloop and livecd builds immediately after
[08:32] <lamont> mdz: 20:03 for amd64, possibly i386.  20:33 for ppc
[08:33] <luis_> so I'm getting one in a couple hours; I'll miss any dinner plans, I guess
[08:33] <mdz> lamont: thanks
[08:33] <mdz> lamont: can you start a cloop build as soon as 6.8.2-6 is visible to the cloop builders?
[08:34] <lamont> xorg_6.8.2-6_20050328-1906               00:50:11 (2 entries, sigma 00:22:27)
[08:34] <lamont> xorg_6.8.2-6_20050328-1906               00:40:38 (7 entries, sigma 00:02:59)
[08:34] <lamont> xorg_6.8.2-6_20050328-1906               01:07:42 (3 entries, sigma 00:00:12)
[08:34] <lamont> is i386,amd64,ppc
[08:34] <mdz> 20:33 + epsilon or whatever
[08:34] <lamont> and not that you care, but ia64 is: xorg_6.8.2-6_20050328-1906               02:26:22 (2 entries, sigma 00:02:04)
[08:34] <lamont> mdz: will do
[08:34] <mdz> thanks
[08:34] <lamont> ubuntu and kubuntu, or just ubuntu?
[08:35] <mdz> both, but I'll want to know when ubuntu is done, and kubuntu can lag
[08:35] <lamont> right
[08:35] <lamont> you want them launched as that arch is ready, or launch all 3 at once?
[08:37] <shaya> anyone know if its possible to save aptitude settings (i.e. packages that are marked A) and restore on another compuer ala dpkg --get-selections --set-selections
[08:41] <Lathiat> shaya: Wrong place for such questions, try #ubuntu
[08:51] <mdz> lamont: doesn't much matter; I'll wait for all of them to be ready to roll the CDs
[08:51] <lamont> mdz: Ok
[08:57] <Treenaks> lamont: poke Md
[08:58] <Kamion> seb128: installer translation merged, thanks
[08:58] <Kamion> upload time
[08:58] <lamont> Treenaks: first I have to figure out what I really want it to do.
[08:59] <lamont> of course, WTH does anything wind up Build-Depending on it, I do not know
[09:07] <frinkillo> mmm a little question: are there plans in Ubuntu to implement something like Redhat's Stateless Linux? (http://people.redhat.com/~hp/stateless/StatelessLinux.pdf)
[09:10] <Kamion> mdz: please merge colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/casper--translations--0 up to patch-10
[09:14] <fabbione> mdz: i think you really want to explain to the submitter that he needs to read the run level specitications
[09:14] <zyga> has anyone seen mvo lately?
[09:15] <fabbione> zyga: he was online not too long ago
[09:17] <seb128> Kamion: np, thank you
[09:17] <seb128> zyga: he was here 1 hour ago
[09:18] <zyga> ah, thanks 
[09:20] <froud> seb128: ping
[09:21] <froud> seb128: can you join #ubuntu-doc
[09:22] <zyga> hmm how many #ubuntu-* are there?
[09:23] <froud> zyga: a few to many :-)
[09:23] <froud> zyga: my Konversation is lit up like a xmas tree. Flashing everywhere
[09:23] <lamont> mdz: so, for the moment, the only viable solution (for between now and release), is to either (a) install udev and its depends in the chroot and then undo the udev postinst, or (b) drop kde entirely :-(
[09:23] <lamont> so I did (a)
[09:23] <fabbione> cya tomorrow guys
[09:24] <zyga> Konversation? oh crap save us from appliKations
[09:24] <zyga> lamont: good luck
[09:25] <mdz> Kamion: casper 0.60 uploaded
[09:26] <Kamion> mdz: thanks
[09:27] <Kamion> mdz: my plan for tonight is: upload all translation updates (in progress); go to pub, have curry in attempt to get rid of sinus pain in most pleasant way possible; come back, upload debian-installer one way or another; build CDs
[09:28] <mdz> Kamion: what time do you think the d-i builds will happen?
[09:28] <mdz> Kamion: I'm currently planning to build&test live CDs as soon as lamont says they're ready
[09:29] <Kamion> mdz: maybe 23:30 UTC under that plan
[09:29] <mdz> ok, I'll proceed then, since I should be ready well before then
[09:29] <Kamion> mdz: if you want to trigger a d-i build yourself at around 22:00 UTC (as long as there are no pending udeb build failures, which there shouldn't be), then that would be good
[09:29] <mdz> ok
[09:30] <Kamion> oh, hang on, timezone's changed
[09:30] <Kamion> er ... make that 21:00 UTC
[09:30] <mdz> oh
[09:30] <mdz> cloop builds should start at ~20:33, so we should be right in sync then
[09:30] <mdz> we can do daily+daily-live at the same time
[09:30] <Kamion> is elmo around to do byhands?
[09:30] <mdz> and use your new d-i build for both
[09:31] <Kamion> and do you mind waiting until 22:30 UTC or so to start CD builds
[09:31] <mdz> not sure; he said he had plans for the holiday
[09:31] <mdz> why delay until 2230?
[09:31] <lamont> did london swithc off daylightsavings already?
[09:31] <lamont> non-conformists!
[09:31] <Kamion> mdz: because I won't be back from the pub until then :P
[09:31] <mdz> hmm,  I actually have an appointment this afternoon
[09:32] <Kamion> and I would like to give everything a once-over just to be sure
[09:32] <ogra> ouch
[09:32] <ogra> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/2005-March/002364.html
[09:32] <mdz> Kamion: I'm going to be out from about 2000 UTC - 2230 UTC myself
[09:33] <mdz> so that's just fine
[09:33] <lamont> mdz: livecd builds launched - will double check in a minute to make sure they all got -6
[09:33] <Kamion> lamont: yeah, we switched to BST on Sunday
[09:33] <Kamion> UK and US are an hour out of sync for this week every year
[09:34] <Kamion> mdz: ok, great
[09:34] <mdz> so I won't be able to do an early set of live CD builds anyway
[09:34] <Kamion> lamont: -6 of which?
[09:34] <lamont> well, +1hour to my times earlier, then.
[09:34] <lamont> xorg
[09:34] <Kamion> ah
[09:35] <Kamion> lamont: I'm trying to continue to think in UTC :-)
[09:37] <lamont> Kamion: problem is, the DC machines are all on london time, not UTC... hence I tend to just convert to london time
[09:37] <Kamion> aha
[09:38] <mdz> they ought to be on UTC :-P
[09:38] <Kamion> ok, all installer translations uploaded; I'm off for a few hours
[09:39] <lamont> mdz: all building with -6
[09:39] <lamont> (and past at least fetching xserver-xorg...)
[09:39] <mdz> thanks
[09:42] <dholbach> seb128: what about chucking out gtkhtml3.0?
[09:42] <seb128> feel free
[09:43] <dholbach> seb128: gnomesword doesnt like 3.6 :-/
[09:43] <dholbach> but that seems the only problem
[09:43] <seb128> that's a main package ?
[09:44] <dholbach> nope
[09:44] <Robot101> seb128: got any opinion on gaim spellcheck language patches?
[09:45] <seb128> Robot101: not really looked on what it does yet
[09:45] <Robot101> mine takes LC_MESSAGES and uses it as the dictionary
[09:46] <Robot101> IME people complaining about "dictionary is not in my language" outnumbered people who have subsequently complained "dictionary insists on being in my language"
[09:46] <Robot101> upstream disagree and don't want a locale-based patch that won't work on windows (?!)
[09:46] <ogra> dholbach, seb128 but its a very popular package
[09:46] <Robot101> (ie SeanEgan is a tool)
[09:46] <seb128> ogra: but not maintained ?
[09:47] <dholbach> ogra: we're talking about gtkhtml3.0 - there is gtkhtml3.6 already
[09:47] <dholbach> ogra: or are you talking about gnomesword?
[09:47] <ogra> dholbach, seb128 there was a looong thread on -users about gnomesword, it would be a pity not to have it in hoary too
[09:47] <ogra> (even if i dont read the ible....there are many people wanting it)
[09:47] <dholbach> i see
[09:47] <ogra> bible even
[09:48] <dholbach> well leave it in
[09:48] <seb128> ogra: that's not the question, the question is to know if somebody has made it work with a recent gtkhtml
[09:48] <ogra> try to fix gtkhtml3.0 if possible, universe still has some more days
[09:48] <seb128> gtkhtml3.0 is not to fix
[09:48] <ogra> seb128, i dont know
[09:48] <ogra> seb128, why; it once worked....
[09:48] <dholbach> i'll drop in a bugreport and we'll have to leave stupid gtkhtml3.0 in
[09:49] <lamont> seb128: gal2.2 is b0rked on hoary/ia64
[09:49] <lamont> versioned build-deps are a _GOOD_ thing, dammit
[09:50] <seb128> how borked ?
[09:50] <lamont> build-hoary-test/chroot-hoary-test/usr/lib/libgal-2.0.la
[09:50] <lamont> build-hoary-test/chroot-hoary-test/usr/lib/libgal-a11y-2.0.la
[09:50] <lamont> contain the string libhowl.la
[09:50] <lamont> have a nice day
[09:50] <seb128> ogra: it works, we just want to drop 3.0 because the current version is 3.6
[09:50] <seb128> lamont: binary NMU ?
[09:51] <lamont> seb128: don't ahve any of those in the archive at this time, and really shouldn't make any
[09:51] <lamont> besides, it should really build-depend the right version of whatever gave it that illness
[09:51] <seb128> so what do you want to do ? upload a new revision saying "fix on ia64" ?
[09:51] <ogra> seb128, but regarding the popularity of gnomesword i'd bite the the bullet leaving it in universe
[09:52] <lamont> seb128: the minimum would be a no-source-change upload (like you say)
[09:52] <lamont> or just declare it dead and not bother... that's an mdz call
[09:52] <seb128> lamont: we have talked about this, bumped all the GNOME package to the current gnomevfs version just to kick libhowl is bong
[09:52] <seb128> the apps require 2.6 and we ask 2.10 for nothing
[09:53] <lamont> ok
[09:53] <mdz> ia64 is not on my radar until after Hoary
[09:53] <mdz> in fact
[09:53] <lamont> mdz: exact;ly
[09:53] <mdz> Kamion: please remove ia64 from the default architecture list for CD builds until after Hoary
[09:53] <lamont> mdz: another option for ia64 would be to have it just install server by default. :-)
[09:53] <lamont> (that much works...)
[09:54] <lamont> ogra: I think that's a blanket 'don't worry about the package if ia64 is the only thing broken'
[09:55] <ogra> lamont, which is a good thing currently...
[09:56] <lamont> right
[10:02] <lamont> i386 cloop finished
[10:02] <lamont> d-i uploads should (almost certainly...) be in the archive by :33
[10:08] <lamont> mdz: i386, amd64 done, ppc is compressing
[10:09] <lamont> and kubuntu livecd doesn't build (kdepim)
[10:14] <Lathiat> is changelogs.ubuntu.com what the update manager uses?
[10:14] <lamont> 30009 root      27   2  565m 513m 3136 R 86.2 25.4   7:46.55 create_compress    
[10:14] <thom> lamont: yes
[10:14] <lamont> wow
[10:15] <thom> uh, s/lamont/lathiat/
[10:15] <lamont> right
[10:16] <Lathiat> thom: cheers
[10:17] <Robot101> what sends the dbus events that update-notifier looks for?
[10:17] <mako> userlinux makes me want to cry
[10:18] <Lathiat> Robot101: i thought it used gamin to watch the dpkg status files
[10:18] <mako> there are comments in the rules file rather than build-depends
[10:18] <Robot101> mako: hhhnrgh
[10:18] <mako> and no clean rule :-/ 
[10:18] <mako> these are metapackages!
[10:18] <mako> there aren't even real packages
[10:19] <mako> it's amazing how screwed up they can be
[10:20] <lamont> mdz: livecd builds on all 3 architectures
[10:20] <ogra> mako, ping
[10:21] <lamont> thom: fwiw, you had me searching for context there for a minute... :0-)
[10:21] <mako> ogra: yes
[10:22] <Mithrandir> lamont: I sat and looked through the mount source code today.  It'll be _neat_ if we pluginise it.
[10:22] <lamont> Mithrandir: cool
[10:22] <lamont> sounds like something for right after hoary, eh?  would be nice to involve upstream as well
[10:23] <thom> Kamion: *g*
[10:23] <tseng> mako: yo did you get my mail?
[10:23] <thom> argh
[10:23] <Mithrandir> lamont: yeah, I think upstream should be heavily in the process.
[10:23] <thom> must learn to read before hitting tab
[10:23] <thom> lamont: *g*
[10:23] <lamont> heh
[10:23] <Mithrandir> lamont: basically, all the file-system specific code can go away (or into per-fs-modules), so can the raid detection and a lot of other stuff.
[10:23] <mako> tseng: probably.. i haven't finished my inbox for the day
[10:23] <thom> !!!: sounds good
[10:24] <Mithrandir> lamont: basically, mount is a lot of special-cases. :)
[10:24] <lamont> Mithrandir: yeah
[10:24] <lamont> with special sub-cases
[10:24] <tseng> mako: ok cool. new CoC signage
[10:25] <mako> tseng: rad
[10:25] <tseng> i guess elmo needs to look at it too.
[10:49] <thom> the Simple theme is awful
[10:50] <ogra> thom, its simple :-P
[10:52] <thom> meh. and i can't make firefox work right with it. oh well
[10:52] <sid77> hi
[11:02] <seb128> mdz: I've spoken with upstream about the gamin issue, he has no idea on the bug atm and that will need some debug. I've pointed pitti to him who has the bug easily on his box.
[11:18] <Guilmon> is there a way to get the raw editor file for the graphics for the gnome post-login screen?
[11:18] <Guilmon> I take offense at the "linux for human beings" ;)
[11:28] <lamont> Guilmon: that's really a #ubuntu question, but gimp is your friend, I expect
[11:28] <zul> hey lamont 
[11:29] <lamont> hey zul
[11:29] <zul> how is it going?
[11:29] <lamont> grumblingly well, thanks
[11:29] <zul> good :)
[11:30] <Guilmon> lamont: how is that a #ubuntu question when sombody developed the image? ;)
[11:30] <Mithrandir> Guilmon: there's a gconf key which points to the image; look under gnome-session stuff.
[11:30] <Mithrandir> Guilmon: dude, if all that's developed is #u-d material, what would be the point of #ubuntu?
[11:31] <Guilmon> Mithrandir: :) the user community? 
[11:33] <lamont> Removing apache2-mpm-prefork ...
[11:33] <lamont>  * Stopping web server (Apache2)...                                      [fail] 
[11:33] <lamont> invoke-rc.d: initscript apache2, action "stop" failed.
[11:33] <lamont> Guilmon: this is the channel to discuss your patch to the image/change in the process, etc/.
[11:33] <lamont> questions about the product are in #ubuntu
[11:41] <sabmoc> who would I talk to about getting support for setting up booths at confrences?
[11:42] <tseng> sabmoc: id start with mako
[11:42] <Guilmon> I think whoever created that image is a speciesist
[11:43] <sabmoc> mako, ping re:confrence booths
[11:44] <Mithrandir> lamont: wassup?
[11:44] <Mithrandir> (I'm not thom, but I guess I can be hit nonetheless)
[11:44] <lamont> grumble
[11:44] <lamont> total and complete UPS failure... gonna have to get a new one now...
[11:44] <mako> deb http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/userlinux hoary main
[11:44] <lamont> apache doesn't want to stop
[11:44] <mako> userlinux packages isntallable on hoary
[11:44] <lamont> in a chjroot
[11:44] <mako> personally, i wouldn't touch them :)
[11:45] <zyga> mvo: ping?
[11:46] <Mithrandir> lamont: is /proc mounted?
[11:46] <lamont> Mithrandir: specifically, if apach2 is _not_ running, and you say dpkg --purge apache2-mpm-prefork, it fails.;
[11:46] <lamont> yep
[11:46] <Mithrandir> hm, that's kinda bad.
[11:47] <Mithrandir> I don't think there's a bug filed about it, so please file one?
[11:51] <Guilmon> where I can email disputes?
[11:52] <tseng> Guilmon: disputes?
[11:52] <tseng> with whom?
[11:52] <Guilmon> tseng: yes, its an outrage. Somebody is a speciesist
[11:52] <Guilmon> tseng: "linux for human beings"
[11:52] <tseng> uh
[11:52] <dholbach> oh my
[11:53] <tseng> I think ill just ignore that.
[11:53] <Mithrandir> Guilmon: if you don't like that, I don't think Ubuntu is for you.
[11:54] <Guilmon> Mithrandir: I can simply change the boot image to say a more appropriate and non-speciesist phrase.
[11:54] <schweeb> Guilmon: you're wasting these good people's time
[11:54] <Mithrandir> Guilmon: sure, please do that, but it's not something which is appropriate or on-topic here.
[11:55] <lamont> Guilmon: file a bug at bugzilla.ubuntu.com, if you feel it needs to change
[11:55] <Guilmon> lamont: theres nothign else in ubuntu which I could call offensive since humanity means more than 1 definition of "being human" but also means being humane.
[11:56] <lamont> Guilmon: #ubuntu