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skyrideranybody alive?01:18
mdkeyes hi01:18
skyriderWhere can I download pot files for QuickGuide, About Ubuntu page and Release01:19
mdkefor translation?01:20
mdkeyou need to contact the translation team i believe01:20
skyriderYes. I'd like to help to translate them into Russian01:20
skyridermdke: I know I will answer that way :(01:20
skyriderTranslation team doesn't have their irc channel?01:21
mdkeoh right01:21
mdkethey have a mailing list01:21
mdkemailing list -> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators01:21
skyriderI know about mailing list, but it feels mostly useless.01:22
mdkeyou didn't get an answer?01:22
mdkethat is definitely the place to start01:23
skyriderActually I don't asked yet but I've read archives of that list and saw much more questions than the answers :(01:23
mdkewell that is about the only place you can start01:24
skyriderok, thanks.01:24
skyriderBut Translation team definitly needs irc channel01:24
skyriderwhere I can download latest content of ubuntu-docs package? SVN repository?01:26
mdkehang on a sec01:27
skyriderthank you very much, mdke 01:28
mdkei'm matt btw01:28
mdkepleased to meet you01:28
skyridermdke: I'm Alexey.01:30
skyriderNice to meet you.01:31
skyridermdke: where are you from?01:31
mdkelondon uk01:31
skyriderI'm from Ukraine01:31
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mdkehi trickie 02:01
sabmoc|wrkhi mdke 02:12
mdkehi sabmoc 02:13
mdkehow are you matey02:13
sabmocnot bad not bad02:13
sabmocand how are you?02:13
mdkegood thanks02:14
mdkesabmoc, what are you up to?02:16
sabmocI am just about to check out the documentation for svn02:16
sabmocfrom* the svn repo02:17
sabmocI wrote up a little howto and now Im going to rewrite it in docbook02:17
sabmocthen Im going to send a patch to the mailing list adding it to the admin guide02:18
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mdkeok cool02:19
mdkewhats the doc on?02:19
mdkegpg key?02:19
sabmocyes, the gpg key signing for ssh02:19
mdkenice doc02:20
EricNeonmorning all!02:20
sabmocthanks, originally it was an email to a friend, but he it was good and I should make it into a howto, so I did02:20
mdkehi EricNeon 02:21
sabmochello EricNeon 02:21
mdkesabmoc, i know nothing about gpg keys02:21
mdkei was very interested in the howto02:21
mdkewhat else are they useful for?02:21
sabmoccool :) 02:22
EricNeonat first ,you could install gnupg02:22
mdkeit is installed by default in ubuntu i think02:22
EricNeonand used "#gpg --gen-key"  to create a gpg key for you02:23
sabmocmost people just attach a sig to outgoing email so if people bother to check the sig they can verify the email came from the correct person. But there are a lot of uses.02:23
mdkeyeah i can't see that being useful for me02:23
mdkeno one would check mine02:23
sabmocme neither02:23
mdkebut maybe for ssh02:23
sabmocyeah ssh is a practical use for ssh02:23
sabmocerr.. gpg is a practical use for ssh02:24
mdkewhat else can it do?02:24
sabmocyou can use it to encrypt a document so that only the intended recipient can decrypt it02:25
mdkei've noticed people post their keys on wiki pages tho02:25
mdkedoesn't that mean anyone can get it and decrypt02:25
sabmocI dont like the idea of putting public keys on wiki pages, but thats another issue02:26
sabmocbasically with gpg, you have two keys02:26
sabmocone is public, one is private02:26
sabmocOk, here is an example02:27
sabmocI want to send you a file02:27
sabmocI will encrypt the file using YOUR public key, and MY private key.02:28
sabmocfor you to decrypt the file, you will need MY public key, and YOUR private key02:28
sabmocso its a four key system, we exchange our public keys, but never never our private keys02:28
mdkeok i see02:29
mdkepretty cool02:29
sabmocyeah, its a very secure way to transfer any material between two partys02:29
sabmocssh works on a very similar principle02:31
mdkei will check out that doc02:31
mdkeoften i use putty to access my home computer02:31
mdkecan that by gpg protected too02:31
sabmocif its your home computer there is not any point, because it will only be you who will access it02:32
sabmocbut if you want to let a stranger log in, then yeah02:33
mdkebut wouldn't it be securer to protect ssh access with a key?02:33
sabmocit already does02:33
sabmocwhen you first log into a computer with ssh, that computer will ask your computer for its public dsa_id key02:34
sabmocok here is another example02:35
sabmocyou want to log into my computer02:35
sabmocwish ssh02:35
sabmocnow instead of just allowing you to log in from any computer anywhere, and using any user name... I will say mdke: you must email me your public dsa_id ssh key.02:36
mdkei don't think my ssh server does that02:36
sabmocyes it does02:36
sabmocif you try to log into a new server it will say something like "server not in list, do you want to permanently add it"02:37
mdkeand i say, yes02:37
sabmocand when you say 'yes' your computer sends your public key to the server you are loging into02:38
mdkehow does that protect the computer i'm logging into?02:38
sabmocit doesnt02:38
sabmocbecause really you could be anybody loging in02:38
sabmocbut if you restrict the public keys to only users that have physically emailed their public key to you, then its safer02:39
mdkeok that's what i mean, so i could set up my ssh server to do that02:39
sabmocbecause then only those users, _using only those computers that they used to generate the public key_ can log in02:39
mdkeso a user couldn't use their public key on a different computer to log in?02:40
sabmocthey would need to make a public key for that computer02:41
sabmocnormally that happens automatically02:41
sabmoca public key is for one user, on one particular comptuer02:41
sabmocbut thats just with ssh02:42
sabmocgpg is not computer specific02:42
=== sabmoc gets his tinfoil hat
mdkethanks for explaining it to me02:44
sabmocnp bud02:44
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=== Liz [~Liz@fixed-203-87-27-63.nsw.chariot.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc
sabmocI can not view the ubuntu-docs xml files using yelp, is that normal?03:34
sabmocanyone awake?03:49
Lizits not normal03:49
Lizit should work03:49
sabmocLiz, should I also be able to build the documentation right out of the box?03:50
sabmocI think I am missing some files03:50
sabmoccan I flood the channel for about 10 lines?03:51
Lizi know it was included in hoary..no idea in warty..other than what we were using03:51
Lizsure..go for it03:51
sabmoc$ make qg03:51
sabmocBuilding the Ubuntu Quick Guide . . .03:51
sabmocmkdir -p build/quickguide/03:51
sabmocxsltproc --xinclude --stringparam base.dir build/quickguide/ libs/html-cust.xslquickguide/quickguide.xml03:51
sabmocwarning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl"03:51
sabmoccompilation error: file libs/html-cust.xsl line 7 element import03:51
sabmocxsl:import : unable to load /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl03:51
sabmocmake: *** [qg]  Error 503:51
Lizive just reinstalled warty03:51
Lizlet me give it a go03:51
sabmocIm using hoary03:52
Lizi never tried it in hoary03:52
Lizim going to do a dist upgrade shortly tho03:52
sabmocbut doing `yelp quickguide/quickguide.xml` does not work03:53
Lizwell..looks like i dont even have the files installed03:54
sabmocyelp says "could not load document: The uniform resource identifier `file://quickguide/quickguide.xml' is invalid or does nto point to an actual file.03:54
sabmocwell then, huston we have a problem03:55
Lizfroud would be the one to ask when he gets back03:56
sabmocI will keep my eyes open for froud >_>03:56
sabmocfroud-away, poke poke03:57
Lizand im gonna go do my dist-upgrade03:59
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froudAfrican Greetings08:55
froudsabmoc: ping08:59
froudhi di dyou fix that problem yet09:00
sabmocno, I just started fooling with mod_python and lost all track of time.09:00
sabmocbut If you have time I am ready now09:00
froudok let's deal with the first problem09:00
froudwarning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl"09:01
froudThis is the top of /trunk/libs/html-cust.xsl09:01
froud<xsl:stylesheet xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform" version="1.0">09:01
froud    <!-- This file is a customization layer for HTML only -->09:02
froud    <!-- ======================= -->09:02
froud    <!-- Imports -->09:02
froud    <!-- <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl"/> -->09:02
froud    <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl"/>09:02
froud    <xsl:include href="common-cust.xsl"/>09:02
frouduncomment the first xsl:import09:02
froudcomment the second one09:02
froudthen while pwd is trunk/09:03
sabmocfroud, I dont have /trunk/*09:03
froudthe root of your repos will do09:03
froudtrunk is your root09:03
sabmocah i see09:03
frouddo ./validate.sh quickguide/quickguide.xml09:05
froudthat will tell you if the quickguide in your WC is valid or not09:05
froudif you get errors then you have problems09:05
sabmocno errors on validate09:05
froudOk so yelp quickguide/quickguide.xml09:06
froudit should open09:06
froudbingo, end of technical support call09:06
sabmocit does not, says vile is invalid or does not point to an actual file09:06
=== froud passes a hat around for any small change
sabmoclet me restart yelp09:07
sabmocyes it works now09:07
sabmochmm.. I had yelp open for about a week :) never thought of restarting it09:07
froudnow you can do make qgg09:07
froudmake qg09:07
froudand watch it work09:08
froudsabmoc: you're on warty right09:09
sabmoc$ make qg09:09
sabmocBuilding the Ubuntu Quick Guide . . .09:09
sabmocmkdir -p build/quickguide/09:09
sabmocxsltproc --xinclude --stringparam base.dir build/quickguide/ libs/html-cust.xsl quickguide/quickguide.xml09:09
sabmocwarning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl"09:09
sabmoccompilation error: file libs/html-cust.xsl line 6 element import09:10
sabmocxsl:import : unable to load /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl09:10
sabmocmake: *** [qg]  Error 509:10
sabmocno hoary09:10
frouddid you install docbook xsl09:10
sabmocmaybe not09:11
sabmoclol no i didnt09:11
froudOk install09:12
froudthen depending on where it is installed you will need to comment / uncommnet the xsl:import09:13
froudyou do hav ethe DTD installed right?09:15
sabmocwhich one09:17
froudwe are using 4.1.2 cause of scrollkeeper problems09:17
froudbut you can also install 4.309:17
froudif you have both in your xml catalog then processing will not go to the network and so will be faster09:18
sabmocIm not sure which packages I need to have installed09:19
sabmocIm still getting a build error09:19
froudwhat did you install09:19
froudok and what is the error09:20
sabmocwarning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl"09:21
froudOk, comment that line and uncomment the other xsl:import09:21
froudin libs/html-cust.xsl09:21
sabmocthese are my lines, which should I comment09:22
sabmoc<xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/pr\ofile-chunk.xsl"/>09:22
sabmoc    <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl\"/>09:22
sabmoc    <xsl:include href="common-cust.xsl"/>09:22
froudIt should look like this09:23
froud<xsl:stylesheet xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform" version="1.0">09:23
froud    <!-- This file is a customization layer for HTML only -->09:23
froud    <!-- ======================= -->09:23
froud    <!-- Imports -->09:23
froud    <!-- <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl"/> -->09:23
froud    <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl"/>09:23
froud    <xsl:include href="common-cust.xsl"/>09:23
sabmocOOOOooo, its working :)09:26
sabmocso what exactly did that build?09:26
sabmocyes, nice! thanks man 09:26
froudthe quick guide09:26
froudlook in build09:26
froudthe build dir is created duing the make09:27
sabmocah the html version09:27
froudit is not part of the repos09:27
sabmocwith css! nice09:27
froudsince the html version :-) is presentational layer09:27
froudyes you know css09:27
froudyou can customize it if you like via /libs/*.css09:28
froudsabmoc: the idea with docbook is that you can build documentation they way it should be built09:29
froudfrom the src09:29
froudany target formats derived by transformation are never edited09:29
froudonly the xml09:29
froudhence we dont have HTML, XHTML, RTF, or PDF in the repso09:30
sabmocso only docbook in the repo09:30
froudand support scripts09:30
sabmocvery cool09:30
froudAll yelp does is transform the xml inline09:30
froudyelp has xsl stylesheets compiled into it09:30
sabmocdo we have a docbook template somewhere?  I have a small document I want to convert from the wiki09:31
froudwhen yelp loads a docbook xml document it produces html09:31
froudno we dont09:31
froudwhat is the document09:31
sabmocfroud, really! so in yelp I am actually looking at html09:31
sabmocthats cool09:32
froudyelp is dynamic transform09:32
froudthe make qg is a static transform09:32
sabmocthis doc https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GPGsigningforSSHHowTo09:33
froudHmm nice a HowTo09:33
sabmocapparently some people claim it is useful so I was going to submit it as a patch to the admin guide after I get it into docbook from09:33
sabmocthank you09:34
froudyou can use docbook article format for that09:34
froudhere is a template09:34
froud<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>09:34
froud<!DOCTYPE article PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.3//EN"09:34
froud                         "http://www.docbook.org/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd">09:34
froud    <title>Article Title</title>09:34
froud    <sect1>09:34
froud        <title>Section1 Title</title>09:34
froud        <para>Text</para>09:34
froud    </sect1>09:34
froudWhen you are ready I will put it in my branch09:34
sabmocyou are a very fast typer :)09:34
froudyou mean copy paster09:35
sabmocok, that template will save me several hours at least :D09:35
sabmocyou are a fast clicker09:35
froudwhat do you use to edit09:35
sabmocemacs xml mode09:36
froudHmm emacs+psgmls hey09:36
froudif you like you may want to write the section on GPG in the User Guide09:37
sabmocyes, actually I guess it is called nXML mode, I dont know what the "n" is for09:37
sabmocyes I would like that!09:37
froudhave you looked at the User Guide outline09:38
froudyou may have suggestions for it09:38
sabmocnot yet09:38
sabmocwhich documents are we going to focus on for this next release?09:38
froudwell make your document as an article09:38
frouda few09:39
froudfirst we must restructure the repos09:39
froudthen we can focus on doc09:39
sabmocI noticed it seemed the quick guide was a big goal for hoary09:39
froudwe need to upgrade FAQ Guide to Hoary09:39
froudyes, cause many people here are new to docbook09:40
sabmoclike me09:40
froudand we first had to build the framework09:40
sabmocwell, i do have a little xp, but nothing much really09:40
froudit's ok to be new, I was once a newbie to docbook 09:40
froudAs we build the docteam people have picked it up very quickly09:41
sabmocI see why09:41
froudany the repos is new09:41
sabmocpeople are very helpful09:41
froudwe try09:41
froudbut learning docbook if you are documenting FOSS apps is very important09:42
froudboth GNOME and KDE use Docbook exclusively09:42
froudand many other projects like TLDP09:42
froudalways, if you know docbook you can contribute to documenting FOSS09:43
sabmocyes, its very handy09:43
froudthat said, we do have a policy to enable anyone to write hence we have wiki09:43
froudsome people find the barrier to docbook to high09:44
sabmocI think the wiki is an awesome documentation system09:44
sabmocbut sometimes I wonder...09:44
froudIt has merit09:44
sabmocI dont want to compare09:44
froudbut is not the best format09:44
sabmocbut I remember what it was like in the gentoo forums about a year or two ago, lots of people posted howto, lots lots lots.. and it was just a forum09:45
sabmocbut it was easy to post09:45
froudyes, and it is easy to become a mess09:45
sabmocbecause you just use a text editor, then cut and past it into the forum comment box09:45
froudbut gentoo   also have xml in the backend09:45
sabmocvery easy, its not a great system, but someone who just wants to write and post its perfect09:46
froudyes we gleen much knowledge from this09:46
froudweb-based tools are great for getting documents up quick09:46
froudbut not so great from the maintenance aspect09:47
froudthey also are stuck in their format09:47
sabmocthe wiki really helps bring the quality up, but its a little harder to post 09:47
froudwhereas with xml you can just write stylesheets and transform to a fromat09:47
froudIdeally I would like to see a round trip09:48
froudusers can edit docbook in web-based app09:48
sabmocyes, the forum is not great for real documentation, because everything has to be completely rewritten09:48
froudand the changes are committed to the respo09:48
sabmocthat would be fantastic09:48
froudbut it is not that simple09:48
sabmoca wysiwyg docbook editor09:48
froudwell you cant bring single source and wysiwyg into the same space09:49
froudthey are different polarity09:49
sabmocyeah, thats whast I was just thinking too09:49
froudlike the ends of a broom stick09:49
froudif you bend the stick to get it together the stick breaks09:50
sabmocit would be imposible 09:50
froudYou can have WYSIOO09:50
sabmocwhich is why nobody has done it yet, impossible09:50
froudWhat you See is One Option09:50
froudTool like XXE and Syntex have this09:50
froudBut under Web-based app you need a way to define the semantics09:51
froudso the wiki type of user soon gets tired of defining semantics and is distracted form actually writing09:52
froudif you are interested in knowing more about how XML benefits documentation see my article http://www.sastc.org.za/articles/xml-solv-prop.html09:53
sabmocI will read it09:54
sabmocwhat is XXE and Syntex?09:54
froudSyntex is a commmercial structured editor09:54
froudXXE has a community edition but is Java09:54
froudare you apporsed to java09:54
froudif not see http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/09:55
=== Liz [~Liz@fixed-203-87-27-63.nsw.chariot.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc
sabmocI dont run java if I can help it09:55
sabmocbut Im not opposed to it09:55
froudwhat is it with people and java09:55
froudjava is beautiful, like Liz 09:55
sabmocwow that looks like a good article09:55
Lizyes..java is good..if its running well09:56
sabmochi Liz, I found him09:56
sabmocwell.. he found me09:56
Lizi see that...did you get your answer with yelp?09:56
froudLiz: how's our favorite Linux Chick today09:56
Liza little bit hacked off froud 09:56
sabmocfroud, my problem is not so much java as sun09:56
Lizi just lost an hdd this morning09:56
sabmocfroud, but I prefer python or c# to java09:56
Lizso i wiped windows off this one and installed ubuntu on it09:57
Lizi just finished doing a dist-upgrade09:57
Liznot all of the packages are installed yet tho09:57
froudLiz: welcome to hoary?09:57
sabmocLiz, you lost? Im sure it will turn up somewhere, have you checked the closet?09:57
Lizive been on it for a week..before the other hdd went kaput09:57
froudHmmm intesting wordddddd Kaput09:57
Lizheh.. sabmoc ..i meant its died on me09:57
sabmocah, why didnt I think of that09:58
sabmocbut dont get me wrong, java is ok09:58
Lizfroud..its a slang word in my country09:58
sabmocit means something like "finished"09:58
froudyes here too means broken09:59
froudsabmoc: java rocks dude09:59
sabmocI think its the first time I've seen it on irc though09:59
sabmocfroud, you like it?09:59
froudwhat java09:59
froudyep yep yep10:00
froudmy whole toolchain is java10:00
froudruns anywhere10:00
froudjust install a java runtime :-)10:00
sabmocyeah, thats the big score for java over other platforms10:00
froudSaxon, Apache FOP, Xalan, Xerces, XEP10:01
froudoh and lets       not forget little ol ANT10:01
sabmocI dont use any of them except apache210:01
froudmake without the wrinkles10:01
froudyou should see cocoon10:02
froudit rocks10:02
sabmocinfact, I havent even heard of them, except for apache! haha10:02
sabmocan ol ant10:02
froudThat web site I sent you to is made with Apache Forrest10:02
sabmocI'll read that doc tonight10:02
froudThe whole site is from XML10:02
sabmocthats cool10:03
sabmocdid you write the article?10:03
sabmocah cool :)10:03
sabmocso you must be Sean10:03
froudat the moment the site is a static transform, I want to put it under Tomcat10:03
sabmochow is it pronounced?10:04
froudLike the Irish John10:04
froudThough some say, Shawn10:04
sabmocbut shawn is the wrong way?10:04
froudthere shuld be a fala in there somewhere10:04
froudyes the S is a JJJJJ10:05
froudLike Sean Connery, but just a whole lot younger10:05
sabmocAlright, I'll try to remember10:06
=== froud wishes the docteam would move to java
sabmocenless you mean the country10:07
froudooooooo, my feet are curling into a fist at the thoght10:07
sabmoceeeww.. fisty feet. gross10:07
froudanyone tried to learn Tolkiens Elvish language10:07
froudHmm, it's pretty cool10:08
sabmocit sounds cool10:08
=== froud gets an idea to write docs in Elvish
=== sabmoc takes away frouds coffee.. until he stops having ideas
froudyeah I hav ewatch all three movies three times and still love it10:08
=== froud is born for ideas
froudcauses me lot sof trouble sometimes10:09
sabmoc:) me 210:09
sabmocthe trouble part10:09
sabmocthe idea part too I guess10:09
froudwell day is begun. I must hack a manual for Kynaptic today10:10
froudnice chatting10:10
froudc ya10:10
sabmocok man10:10
sabmocI'll get that article written10:10
Lizse eya froud10:10
Lizi must finish customizing my system10:11
Liztheres also another liz on this server10:11
Lizadn she keeps overtaking my name 10:11
sabmocyou should register it10:11
Lizit is10:11
sabmocthen you can kick her an laugh10:11
Lizbut i get on here and have to ghost her off10:11
sabmocyou would think she would get the hint then10:11
Lizi must change my password just in case10:12
Lizits a tad too easy 10:12
sabmocits too bad gconf didnt have an easy way to import and export its keys @ "finish customizing my system"10:12
sabmocheh, my password is "help" because I wasnt sure what I was doing and wrote /msg nickserv identify help10:13
sabmocmeh, I doubt anyone wants to be a sabmoc10:13
sabmocok, python time10:14
sabmocah crap, its after midnight, better make that sleeptime10:14
sabmoccya doc folk10:14
Liznite nite10:15
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froudco.za is on the kde development map. fame at last http://physos.net/~physos/images/developer_map/smallmap.jpeg01:27
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abelliciao a a tutti04:07
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mdkeola abelli04:52
=== froud grunts
froudula ula ho hu ah04:53
=== froud translates from cave man to en
mdkehi froud04:53
froudhello good dudes04:53
mdkehow is that gas of yours04:54
mdkejolly good04:55
froudjolly good show old chap. I say time to call in the gaurd, what , waht04:55
=== froud is growing horns again
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froud'ello abelli 05:06
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abellifroud: ciao05:07
abellifroud: so where's god gone?05:07
froudback to the poker table to cheat on Lucifer05:07
abelliwhos winning ?05:08
abelliplaying what black jack?05:08
apokryphos_froud: better in here or in devel channel?05:08
apokryphos_don't wanna get in their way ;)05:08
froudapokryphos: there you go http://www.inwords.co.za/kubuntu/kynaptic/kynaptic.html05:15
apokryphosvery cool; thanks. :)05:15
froudapokryphos: svn up I did a spell check just now05:16
abelliapokryphos: dont let froud corrupt you .05:17
apokryphostoo late :P05:17
=== froud uses his Jedi magic, " You will come to KDE."
apokryphosKeep inculcating ;)05:18
mdkethe dark side is more powerful05:18
abelliahh ahhh you sinner ... you're saying it .05:18
=== mdke zaps froud with his Sith powers
froudgimme a K05:18
=== mdke turns apokryphos to gnome
froudgimme a D05:19
froudgimme a E05:19
=== apokryphos cheers
apokryphosok, back to work. :D05:20
froudwhat to you got K D E05:20
=== froud the power of the force is strong with K D E
abelliis slow  with KDE .05:21
apokryphosfroud: beginner question: I keep getting https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu' is not a working copy05:21
abellior at least slower than G N O M E ...05:21
froudapokryphos: I forgot kongi dude05:21
abellior better than W M Improved II05:21
froudwhat are you doing to get that05:21
froudyou should be in kynaptic05:22
froudor did you checkout my entire kubuntu branch05:22
apokryphosI get the same thing no matter what directory I'm in... nope, just the kynaptic one.05:22
froudapokryphos: make sure you are in pwd kynaptic05:23
froudthen svn up05:23
=== froud smells hot dogs ..... fooooood. brb
apokryphoskynaptic dir is in my ~. When doing svn up https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu/kynaptic/ kynaptic, I get that error still.05:24
abelliapokryphos: now switch rapidly to gnome05:24
abellifroud wont notice it05:24
apokryphosWell, I have been liking gnome lately05:25
apokryphosNo! Stop. Must be those brainwashing powers; marking indelibly. Ouch.05:25
=== apokryphos thinks he has KDE in his blood. Well, there is a kind of K in this vein here...
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apokryphosfroud: also, do you mind if I expand the installing Kubuntu doc later, to include, say, some of the stuff mentioned in the installingKDE wiki article?05:33
apokryphos(since, not everyone wants the things brought in with k-desktop)05:33
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froudapokryphos: that doc is also in svn under kubuntu06:05
apokryphosRight. Still can't get evil svn up to work ; going to svn co for now, but I figure I'll need the to svn up later anyhow06:07
froudapokryphos: you installed subversion right06:08
apokryphosYeah, and subversion-tools06:09
froudif you want all the kubuntu stuff in my branch just do svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu06:09
apokryphosyeah, done.06:09
frouddid you checout all my kubuntu or only kynaptic06:09
apokryphospreviously: kynaptic; now: done all kubuntu stuff.06:09
froudOk so your working copy is in the rrot of kubuntu06:10
frouddoing svn up will get updates from the repos06:10
apokryphosYeah, like cvs up, but doesn't seem to work; bah. 06:11
froudapokryphos: what hav eyou done06:12
apokryphosBefore I was trying "svn up https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu/ kynaptic" while being in the direct kynaptic dir.06:13
froudno just do svn up06:13
froudleav ethe URL06:13
froudonce you have done the checkout you dont need to specify it again06:13
froudIt's stored in the .svn folder06:14
apokryphosergh, silly me. Thanks.06:14
froudmuch easier than cvs06:14
froudno need for CVSROOT etc06:14
froudor -d06:14
apokryphosor cvs login etc.06:15
froudIf you want a cool GUI with a User Manual by me look at eSvn06:15
apokryphosMaking a note; will check that out later.06:16
froudapokryphos: do remember to do svn up from time to time. I will be writing more into the document while you are editing.06:26
apokryphoswon't it remove my changes?06:26
froudno it will only show a conflict if I touch what you are working on06:28
froudotherwise it will just merge my changes into your document.06:29
froudI will just be working on Using Filters for now06:31
apokryphosI'll take care of the "Searching for Packages"06:32
apokryphosin the actual doc, the whole GPL isn't going to be there at the bottom, is it?06:32
froudfor now it will06:34
froudOK the screenshots are alreay there06:35
=== apokryphos needs to go out at six, but will work on this till then
froudapokryphos: no rush dude, chill06:39
froudgo shower and shave06:39
frouddont want you date blaming me cause you stink06:39
apokryphosalways fresh ;)06:40
froudapokryphos: what's your full name and email so I can add you as author?06:41
apokryphosWell, K.F. Giannaros is probably best ;); I'm known as Francis by everyone though (middle name); K = Kontantinos. francisg@gmail.com06:42
froudCool now how do you say that ;-)06:44
apokryphosIt's Greek; no-one uses the full-thing, though (like Alexander/Alex); generally just "Kosta" (same pronounciation as the coffee shop)06:45
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apokryphosBad thing with Kynaptic at the moment seems to be that you can't actually even see descriptions ;)06:51
froudKosta, I know Kosta06:55
froudyeah kynaptic is still very basic06:55
apokryphosMy docbook is still on its first legs; for describing features of hte search, do you reckon I should use varlistentry with term, listitem?06:57
froudProbably variablelist06:57
froudPut GUI option/labels into the term and the description in the listitem06:58
apokryphosok, better get started on that next time though. Sorry for the lag ;)07:00
apokryphosttyl; will try to get onto this as soon as I get back07:01
froudsure, remember to do svn up when you get back07:04
froudthat way you will avoid conflicts      early07:04
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froudanyone seen enrico08:30
froudwe need to get the srcs uploaded before tomorrow/Wednesday08:31
=== froud fears we lost him in a coffee shop in Amsterdam
claudeenrico is at Amsterdam08:31
=== froud nods
claudehe told me ha had poor internet conectivity :(08:32
=== froud nods
froudanyne else with whiteboard can do the upload08:32
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froudwhat do you guys think, can we tag the repos and get on with hoary or should we wait longer?09:08
froudclaude: we did not get any po files back from you guys09:08
froudare we supposed to09:09
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claudefroud: yes, seb128 lead the process with the ubuntu-fr list09:13
claudeabout-ubuntu is quite ready09:14
froudclaude: so are we supposed to get po files or not?09:17
claudei hope so...09:18
froudHmm, well mdz and thom are gonna upload soon so if they are not in they will be out until release09:18
claudei can send you the file, but don't know if he's ready09:18
froudHmm anyone seen seb128 around09:19
=== froud goes off to #ubuntu-devel
claudeif we don't include them right now, is it possible that they come into Hoary later ?09:20
claudeor do we have to wait until next main release ?09:20
froudyes, let me see if seb128 is there09:20
claudeif you find him, tell him to join here09:21
froud:-) just done that on #ubuntu-devel09:22
froudclaude: seems like seb128 is not coming09:26
froudwell I guess it will go in later. Anyway hopefully enrico is back by then09:27
claudei can send you the 2 french po files, so you can try to integrate them in the svn09:27
froudclaude: but I dont know what to do with them09:31
froudclaude: I am on the seat of my pants when it comes to i18n09:31
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claudehaaaaaaaa !09:32
froudseb128: are you gonna give us po files09:32
froudmdz is doing uploads09:33
seb128about-ubuntu is ready09:33
froudwell thom actually09:33
froudok so I will check that on ein09:33
froudwhat about release notes09:33
claudeseb128: i read release-notes, the file seems to be good quality09:33
seb128the po file is attached to this mail09:34
seb128claude: cool, I've updated the installer translations today, I'll read the note soon09:34
froudseb128: please send it to sean@inwords.co.za09:34
seb128can't you click on the click ?09:34
froudYes, but too many things09:35
froudand no records09:35
abelliciao a tutti09:35
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claudefroud: these files are the same as the ones i sent you just before09:35
froudclaude: ok thanks09:36
seb128claude: you have send them ?09:36
froudsvn commit -m about ubuntu french about-ubuntu-fr.po --non-interactive 09:36
froudAdding about-ubuntu-fr.po09:36
froudTransmitting file data .09:36
froudCommitted revision 780.09:36
froudsuccessfully (0)09:36
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claudei only sent the po files, not the xml09:37
thomfroud: so, i'm just grabbing trunk then?09:37
froudsvn commit -m release notes french release-notes-fr.po --non-interactive 09:37
froudAdding release-notes-fr.po09:37
froudTransmitting file data .09:37
froudCommitted revision 781.09:37
froudsuccessfully (0)09:37
froudthom: yes I think so09:38
seb128froud: thanks09:38
froudthom: I just got fr i18n from seb128 09:38
froudseb128: no thank sto you09:38
froudthom: I am not sure what enrico uploaded before09:38
froudthom: it was a black box09:38
froudthom: it would be good to know what and how so a few few of the team members can do this in the event of somebody not being available09:40
froudthom: I will speak to enrico about it when he gets out of that coffee shop in Amsterdam09:40
thomheh, nod09:41
=== froud is watch mdz talking on three channels all at once.
froudI am convinced mdz is three people09:41
froudclaude: we also need to reveal how we can work better with i18n teams09:42
froudclaude: I am planning after haory to restructure09:43
claudefroud: yes, but my first concern now is to understand how the po files will be integrated in filnal desktop09:43
froudclaude: Hmm, yes, that is something else I have no knowledge of09:44
froudclaude: my areas are writing and Docbook XML framework09:44
froudclaude:  enrico has been hadling packaging09:45
froudbut we will need to automate the process09:45
froudwhat ever it is09:45
FlonneSorry if I'm interrupting, but I've got a question.09:45
claudeafk, must deal with children...09:45
froudFlonne: shoot09:45
FlonneHow exactly would one go about joining the documentation team?09:46
froudyou just did :-) welcome09:46
froudwhat would you like to work on09:46
FlonneI've got a lot of free time coming up, and the userguide seems to be woefully incomplete.09:46
froudYes this is a target for grumpy09:46
froudwe will be reoutlining and working on it soon09:47
FlonneI was actually thinking I might be able to throw together a draft in time for Hoary...09:47
FlonneI've been playing with it for the past two weeks.09:47
froudFlonne: you have a User Guide09:47
FlonneI checked it out of SVN.09:47
froudYou have the content09:47
=== froud takes it you understand docbook etc
FlonneI've got a lot of it in point form, and I'm forming paragraphs and sections based on that information now.09:48
FlonneYes, I do.09:48
=== froud is happy
thomfroud: if you want to tag, rev 781 is gonna be ubuntu-docs 0.409:48
froudWell you can do a patch09:48
froudthom: thanks09:49
Flonne4.3 is the preferred spec right now, right?09:49
froudAt the moment we have 4.1.2 and 4.309:50
froudThe User Guide should be 4.309:50
FlonneHow difficult would it be to convert 4.4 to 4.3? I began learning 4.4 before actually looking at the DTD line.09:51
FlonneEverything seems to render correctly in Yelp, but docbook2html isn't exactly pretty.09:52
froudFlonne: very easy if you have not used any 4.4 features and elements09:53
thom(froud: sorry, i mean 0.4.1-1)09:53
froudFlonne: hav eyou used any features of theat DTD09:53
FlonneI don't believe so, but I'm not entirely sure.09:53
froudchang ethe DocType Decl to 4.3 and then validate09:53
froudyou will soon find out09:53
FlonneIt seems to check out.09:54
FlonneMaybe docbook2html just produces ugly pages.09:55
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FlonneI couldn't get it to handle link or xref correctly, though I haven't seen those used elsewhere in the User Guide, so I removed them.09:56
FlonneBut that's irrelevant.09:57
froudFlonne: we use the docbook xsl and a custom layer09:59
froudif you checkout all of trunk you will have all you need09:59
FlonneI did. There was a lot more there than I expected.10:00
froudyou need to have installed the docbook xsl, dtd, xsltproc, xmllint10:00
froudOur makefile will do the rest for you10:00
=== froud complete tagging svn commit -m tag r 781 ubuntu-docs 0.4 ubuntu-docs-0.4 --non-interactive
froudFlonne: we have a number of nice projects to work on in grumpy10:02
froudthere is also an outline for the Admin Guide10:02
froudand FAQ Guide will need work10:03
froudthom: tagging done10:03
froudthom: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/tags/ubuntu-docs-0.410:03
froudFlonne: we also have a project called LearnLinux10:04
froudwe would like to customize it to Ubuntu10:04
FlonneI'm actually having a problem with the makefile. docbook-xsl-stylesheets 1.65.1 doesn't seem to have chunk.xsl in it.10:04
froudit should give me your error please10:05
Flonnecompilation error: file libs/html-cust.xsl line 7 element import10:05
Flonnexsl:import : unable to load /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl10:05
froudyou running hoary or warty10:06
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FlonneAh... I specified the wrong location when installing the package.10:07
FlonneI'm on a school system right now. :(10:07
froudI c ok10:07
froudin libs/html-cust.xsl we specify the path for xsl:import10:08
FlonneYeah. I was looking through it.10:08
thomfroud: ok, so the procedure is: svn export  https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-docs-0.4.1 ; tar czf ubuntu-docs_0.4.1.orig.tar.gz ubuntu-docs-0.4.1; update debian/changelog (usually with dch); debuild -S10:09
froudcool, you understand xsl cust layers10:09
FlonneI try to research things before working with them. :)10:09
thom(you'd want to do a debuild -us -uc before the debuild -S to do test packages as well)10:09
FlonneI'll just revert that file later.10:09
froudthom: I tagged it in https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/tags/ubuntu-docs-0.410:10
FlonneOkay... Build works now.10:10
froudthom: svn export https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/tags/ubuntu-docs-0.4 ubuntu-docs-0.4.1 ; tar czf ubuntu-docs_0.4.1.orig.tar.gz ubuntu-docs-0.4.1; update debian/changelog (usually with dch); debuild -S10:11
froudthom: is that not right10:11
froudyou export from the tags/10:11
froudnot the trunk///10:11
thomnow you've tagged it, yeah10:12
froudFlonne: feel free to improve the CSS and XSLs10:13
froudwe dont use fo yet, but still have common.xsl just incase we do want to do xsl:fo10:14
froudFlonne: so anything common to HTML and XSL:FO goes in the common.xsl10:14
froudFlonne: at present we also dont have profiling10:15
froudFlonne: but may use it in future10:15
FlonneIs there any framework for that?10:15
froudFlonne: not yet as we dont use it yet10:15
thomUploading via ftp ubuntu-docs_0.4.1-1.dsc: done10:15
thomhave a nice day, y'all10:15
froudthom: yaaaaay thanks10:16
mdkegood work you guys10:16
=== mdke hands round cookies
froudFlonne: there will be lot sof restructure after hoary10:17
froudFlonne: would like your help there10:17
froudmore ideas the better10:17
=== froud reaches for cookies
FlonneI'll read as much of it as I can.10:18
froudI have a bunch of stuff in my branch too :-)10:18
FlonneIn the meantime, is there any content work to do?10:18
froudfeel free to hack the user guide10:18
FlonneWhere should I submit changes?10:19
froudFor now post patches10:19
FlonneI'm assuming someone will want to screen this before commiting.10:19
froudto the list10:19
FlonneStandard diff?10:20
froudFlonne: I will so work small10:20
froudpatch often :-)10:20
froudthat way I can check it better10:20
froudIf I dont get it others will10:20
froudFlonne: are you a GNOME user or KDE10:24
mdkeoh don't start10:25
froudIf you are intersted there will also be doc work for KDE10:25
=== froud glares at mdke
FlonneI prefer Gnome, but I'm running one system with Kubuntu do I can test things.10:25
=== mdke points at the cookies
froudmdke: your nick is all wrong it should be mkde10:25
FlonneI'm also running a system with a combination of other window managers, since I fromed an fvwm/openbox addiction a year ago.10:26
froudFlonne: OK cool I have docs work to go on http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/10:26
froudHmm an addict I see10:27
=== froud whispers to mdke, "the force is strong with this one."
FlonneI blame it on the time I spent writing Arch howtos...10:28
mdkeyou cannot win10:28
froudFlonne: anyway send your patches I will be going to bed now. You should be set for now. If what's on your plate now does not satify your itch then checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud10:30
froudFlonne: warning that is a large checkout10:30
froudIf you just want the kubuntu stuff https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/kubuntu10:30
FlonneI'll submit them as soon as I get home, so probably in about four hours or so.10:31
froudFlonne: this branch will move in to trunk soon10:31
froudI will be in bed as I am in South Africa10:31
froudWhere are you?10:31
FlonneWestern Canada.10:31
froudHmm we have a few Mounties here10:31
FlonneI also speak French, so I might be able to contribute a little to the fr side of things.10:32
mdkedoes anyone know how the translation side of things works?10:33
mdkeare they using rosetta for the quickguide?10:33
froudFlonne: well welcome to the doc team, and yes your French will be used10:33
froudmdke: speak to claude10:33
FlonneThough I'm an English/CompSci person by nature...10:33
mdkefroud, i tried that yesterday10:33
mdkeyeah hi Flonne welcome10:33
froudOh dear10:33
froudwell let me try10:33
froud1. we make pot file10:33
froud2. translation team creates po file from the pot10:34
froud3. they give us back the po10:34
froud4. we make a new XML10:34
FlonneIs this the same sort of pot used by XMMS?10:34
froud~~~  THE END ~~~10:34
mdkefroud, i c10:34
mdkefroud, and do they work on the pot file using rosetta?10:35
froudFlonne: XMMS is a media app10:35
mdkeor just individually10:35
froudmdke: I understand that Rosetta now can take documents10:35
FlonneI know, but it assembles a pot during compilation, and I'm pretty sure it's used for localization.10:35
froudthere is a mail inthe list on this10:35
mdkefroud, i'll have a look at their archives and the wiki pages10:36
claudeno Rosetta still not contains doc10:36
mdkebut i haven't come across a clear working method yet10:36
mdkeclaude, ok i c10:36
claudeRosetta is down now10:36
mdkeclaude, so how do you guys work on the translations?10:36
froudclaude: ms word doc10:36
claudeCarols told us he'll try to integrate them soon10:36
froudmdke: but from our side all we need to know is how to generate pot files and how to remark from po to xml10:37
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froudBurgundavia: hello dude10:38
mdkefroud, i c, i was just wondering about the system for translation10:38
froudBurgundavia: where have you been10:38
mdkehi corey10:38
froudBurgundavia: you in Canada right10:38
claudefroud: generating the xml from po file is not a problem10:38
froudBurgundavia: meet Flonne from W Canada10:38
froudno seams easy10:39
FlonneHi. :)10:39
froudclaude: did you add the commands and cycle to the i18n page on our wiki10:39
=== froud Burgundavia is shy tonight
claudefroud: something like po2xml origfile.xml file.po > newfile.xml10:40
=== froud goes back in the log
mdkecan't find much on the wiki or list about how to get involved with translating docteam documents10:42
BurgundaviaFlonne: where are you?10:42
Burgundaviano I am not shy10:42
claudemdke: the process is still unmature for now10:42
Burgundaviahave 40+ emails to work through10:42
FlonneI'm in Calgary.10:42
mdkeclaude, i c10:42
FlonneWhere are you? I don't recognize gv.10:42
claudemdke: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepl18n10:43
mdkeso basically step 3 is just down to individuals?10:43
froudclaude: yes10:44
froudclaude: yes10:44
claudefroud: yes?10:44
froudclaude: yes that is the command10:45
BurgundaviaFlonne: Victoria, BC10:45
froudcan you document the commands in the cyle10:45
BurgundaviaFlonne: you are Calgary, no?10:45
claudefroud: done10:45
froudclaude: I will need them for the make file10:45
froudyo who changed the wiki10:46
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FlonneYes, I am.10:46
BurgundaviaFlonne: you know Userful computers?10:46
claudefroud: changed what ?10:47
mdkeclaude, i'm looking through the archive but can't find the docteam pot files posted to the list, are they there?10:47
FlonneIs that the name of a store?10:47
froudwhy does that page look so white10:47
mdkefroud, maybe you've changed your skin10:47
froudmdke: svn up 10:47
froudthey are in the repos10:47
froudno just that page is like that10:48
froudthe rest are not10:48
mdkefroud, sure, but step 2 in the procedure is posting the pot files to the ubuntu-translators list10:48
froudmdke: which we did10:48
mdkeit looks like enrico did it but it has not come up on the archives10:48
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claudemdke: enrico sent them on march 25, but they are also in the repos10:48
froudjjesse: he dude10:48
froudwe now also have the po files back10:49
froudbut we need to make them into xml10:49
mdkeclaude, yeah must be this one: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2005-March/000153.html10:49
mdkefroud, they are back already? for all languages?10:49
mdkethat is cool10:49
froudclaude: you wanna give it a bash10:49
froudno just fr10:49
mdkejust fr?10:49
mdkeis it too late for other languages?10:50
froudthanks to    seb12810:50
=== froud makes ready for bed
froudmkde: we will iron this out by next release10:50
claudefroud: what do you mean by "give it a bash" ?10:51
froudgive it a go10:51
mdkefroud, i was thinking we could post the pot files to other language lists and ask for translations10:51
mdkeit might not be too late10:51
froudmkde: I see no harm in it10:51
mdkeok lemme get the pot file10:52
froudmkde let us know how it happens10:52
mdkeare the pot files easy to find?10:52
=== froud wonder if mdke notices the nick change
froudmkde: yes in aboutubuntu/ and releasenotes/10:53
mdkewhich nick change?10:53
mdkefroud, kthx10:53
mdkeoh shit10:53
=== mdke slaps froud
mdkedamn subliminal mind games10:54
froudmKDE has not noticed10:54
mdkesorry frgnome10:54
mdkenight if i miss ya10:54
froudwell chaps all we miss tonigh is enrico and Liz10:54
froudbut I am off to bed. Happy hacking. Fo rthose late commers we branched ubuntu-doc 0.4 today10:55
froudUmm we tagged ubuntu-doc 0.4 today10:55
=== froud cant wait for the final release so we can get on with restructuring
claudei'm also going to bed (not the same as froud... lol !)10:56
froudgood night10:56
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jjesselooks like i joined just as everyone is leaving :)11:06
jjesseor maybe they are leaving because i joined11:06
Burgundaviamdke and maskie left from a netsplit11:10
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graymalkinI wrote a wiki but I think I kind of screwed it up11:25
graymalkinanyone want to look at it and tweak it?11:26
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graymalkinwell, here is the page I did ... https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HowToEnableSCSIEmulationWithHoaryKernel26  ... but I did it from the sandbox, and I think instead of making a new page, it just renamed the sandbox. it should be in the "how to" section but I don't really know how to parent it or anything.11:33
Burgundaviagraymalkin: hmm11:33
BurgundaviaI am not an expert on the wiki11:33
Burgundaviaso I will leave alone to11:33
graymalkinThe problem is if you go to "help on editing" at https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HelpOnEditing , it now says click on the "enable scsi with 2.6" page instead of the sandbox page ...11:34
graymalkinI hope someone around here can fix it11:34
graymalkindo you know who else can fix it or should I email someone?11:36
graymalkinI think I fixed it11:48
graymalkinw00t! it's set up as a new page now ... I hope someone will correctly put it in the "how-to" category ....11:56
jjessehey nice page graymalkin11:58

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