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=== skyrider [~skyrider@195.128.178.150] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [~mdke@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [~matt@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:18] anybody alive? [01:18] yes hi [01:19] hi [01:19] Where can I download pot files for QuickGuide, About Ubuntu page and Release [01:19] notes [01:20] for translation? [01:20] you need to contact the translation team i believe [01:20] Yes. I'd like to help to translate them into Russian [01:20] mdke: I know I will answer that way :( [01:21] ? [01:21] Translation team doesn't have their irc channel? [01:21] oh right [01:21] :( [01:21] no [01:21] they have a mailing list [01:21] http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TranslationTeam [01:21] mailing list -> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators [01:22] I know about mailing list, but it feels mostly useless. [01:22] why? [01:22] you didn't get an answer? [01:23] that is definitely the place to start [01:23] Actually I don't asked yet but I've read archives of that list and saw much more questions than the answers :( [01:24] well that is about the only place you can start [01:24] ok, thanks. [01:24] But Translation team definitly needs irc channel [01:24] :) [01:25] heh [01:26] where I can download latest content of ubuntu-docs package? SVN repository? [01:27] yes [01:27] hang on a sec [01:28] http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepRepository [01:28] thank you very much, mdke [01:28] pleasure [01:28] i'm matt btw [01:28] pleased to meet you [01:30] mdke: I'm Alexey. [01:30] hi [01:31] Nice to meet you. [01:31] mdke: where are you from? [01:31] london uk [01:31] I'm from Ukraine [01:32] ok === trickie [~trickie@203-166-242-109.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:01] hi trickie [02:12] hi mdke [02:13] hi sabmoc [02:13] how are you matey [02:13] not bad not bad [02:13] and how are you? [02:14] good thanks [02:16] sabmoc, what are you up to? [02:16] I am just about to check out the documentation for svn [02:17] from* the svn repo [02:17] I wrote up a little howto and now Im going to rewrite it in docbook [02:17] k [02:18] then Im going to send a patch to the mailing list adding it to the admin guide === EricNeon [~ericneon@222.65.62.237] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:19] ok cool [02:19] whats the doc on? [02:19] gpg key? [02:19] yes, the gpg key signing for ssh [02:20] nice doc [02:20] morning all! [02:20] thanks, originally it was an email to a friend, but he it was good and I should make it into a howto, so I did [02:21] hi EricNeon [02:21] hello EricNeon [02:21] hi~ [02:21] sabmoc, i know nothing about gpg keys [02:21] i was very interested in the howto [02:21] mdke [02:21] what else are they useful for? [02:22] cool :) [02:22] at first ,you could install gnupg [02:22] it is installed by default in ubuntu i think [02:23] and used "#gpg --gen-key" to create a gpg key for you [02:23] most people just attach a sig to outgoing email so if people bother to check the sig they can verify the email came from the correct person. But there are a lot of uses. [02:23] yeah i can't see that being useful for me [02:23] no one would check mine [02:23] me neither [02:23] but maybe for ssh [02:23] yeah ssh is a practical use for ssh [02:24] err.. gpg is a practical use for ssh [02:24] what else can it do? [02:25] you can use it to encrypt a document so that only the intended recipient can decrypt it [02:25] i've noticed people post their keys on wiki pages tho [02:25] doesn't that mean anyone can get it and decrypt [02:25] no [02:26] I dont like the idea of putting public keys on wiki pages, but thats another issue [02:26] basically with gpg, you have two keys [02:26] one is public, one is private [02:27] Ok, here is an example [02:27] I want to send you a file [02:28] I will encrypt the file using YOUR public key, and MY private key. [02:28] for you to decrypt the file, you will need MY public key, and YOUR private key [02:28] so its a four key system, we exchange our public keys, but never never our private keys [02:29] ok i see [02:29] pretty cool [02:29] yeah, its a very secure way to transfer any material between two partys [02:31] ssh works on a very similar principle [02:31] yeah [02:31] i will check out that doc [02:31] often i use putty to access my home computer [02:31] can that by gpg protected too [02:31] ? [02:32] if its your home computer there is not any point, because it will only be you who will access it [02:33] but if you want to let a stranger log in, then yeah [02:33] but wouldn't it be securer to protect ssh access with a key? [02:33] it already does [02:34] when you first log into a computer with ssh, that computer will ask your computer for its public dsa_id key [02:35] ok here is another example [02:35] you want to log into my computer [02:35] wish ssh [02:35] with* [02:36] now instead of just allowing you to log in from any computer anywhere, and using any user name... I will say mdke: you must email me your public dsa_id ssh key. [02:36] i don't think my ssh server does that [02:36] yes it does [02:37] oh [02:37] if you try to log into a new server it will say something like "server not in list, do you want to permanently add it" [02:37] yeah [02:37] and i say, yes [02:38] and when you say 'yes' your computer sends your public key to the server you are loging into [02:38] ok [02:38] how does that protect the computer i'm logging into? [02:38] it doesnt [02:38] oh [02:38] because really you could be anybody loging in [02:39] but if you restrict the public keys to only users that have physically emailed their public key to you, then its safer [02:39] yeah [02:39] ok that's what i mean, so i could set up my ssh server to do that [02:39] because then only those users, _using only those computers that they used to generate the public key_ can log in [02:40] ooh [02:40] so a user couldn't use their public key on a different computer to log in? [02:41] they would need to make a public key for that computer [02:41] normally that happens automatically [02:41] right [02:41] a public key is for one user, on one particular comptuer [02:42] but thats just with ssh [02:42] gpg is not computer specific [02:42] ok === sabmoc gets his tinfoil hat [02:43] haha [02:44] thanks for explaining it to me [02:44] np bud === mdke [~matt@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [~matt@mdke.user] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === Liz [~Liz@fixed-203-87-27-63.nsw.chariot.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:34] I can not view the ubuntu-docs xml files using yelp, is that normal? [03:49] anyone awake? [03:49] its not normal [03:49] it should work [03:50] Liz, should I also be able to build the documentation right out of the box? [03:50] I think I am missing some files [03:51] can I flood the channel for about 10 lines? [03:51] i know it was included in hoary..no idea in warty..other than what we were using [03:51] sure..go for it [03:51] $ make qg [03:51] Building the Ubuntu Quick Guide . . . [03:51] mkdir -p build/quickguide/ [03:51] xsltproc --xinclude --stringparam base.dir build/quickguide/ libs/html-cust.xslquickguide/quickguide.xml [03:51] warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl" [03:51] compilation error: file libs/html-cust.xsl line 7 element import [03:51] xsl:import : unable to load /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl [03:51] make: *** [qg] Error 5 [03:51] ive just reinstalled warty [03:51] let me give it a go [03:52] Im using hoary [03:52] i never tried it in hoary [03:52] im going to do a dist upgrade shortly tho [03:53] but doing `yelp quickguide/quickguide.xml` does not work [03:54] well..looks like i dont even have the files installed [03:54] yelp says "could not load document: The uniform resource identifier `file://quickguide/quickguide.xml' is invalid or does nto point to an actual file. [03:55] s/nto/not/ [03:55] well then, huston we have a problem [03:56] froud would be the one to ask when he gets back [03:56] I will keep my eyes open for froud >_> [03:56] <_< [03:56] O_o [03:57] froud-away, poke poke [03:59] and im gonna go do my dist-upgrade [04:00] ok === trickie_ [~trickie@203-166-242-109.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === cc [~cc@byte.fedora] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:55] African Greetings [08:59] sabmoc: ping [08:59] froud! [09:00] hi di dyou fix that problem yet [09:00] no, I just started fooling with mod_python and lost all track of time. [09:00] but If you have time I am ready now [09:00] ok let's deal with the first problem [09:01] warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl" [09:01] yes [09:01] This is the top of /trunk/libs/html-cust.xsl [09:01] [09:02] [09:02] [09:02] [09:02] [09:02] [09:02] [09:02] uncomment the first xsl:import [09:02] comment the second one [09:03] then while pwd is trunk/ [09:03] froud, I dont have /trunk/* [09:03] the root of your repos will do [09:03] trunk is your root [09:03] ah i see [09:05] do ./validate.sh quickguide/quickguide.xml [09:05] that will tell you if the quickguide in your WC is valid or not [09:05] if you get errors then you have problems [09:05] no errors on validate [09:06] Ok so yelp quickguide/quickguide.xml [09:06] it should open [09:06] bingo, end of technical support call [09:06] it does not, says vile is invalid or does not point to an actual file === froud passes a hat around for any small change [09:07] let me restart yelp [09:07] yes it works now [09:07] OK [09:07] hmm.. I had yelp open for about a week :) never thought of restarting it [09:07] now you can do make qgg [09:07] make qg [09:08] and watch it work [09:09] sabmoc: you're on warty right [09:09] $ make qg [09:09] Building the Ubuntu Quick Guide . . . [09:09] mkdir -p build/quickguide/ [09:09] xsltproc --xinclude --stringparam base.dir build/quickguide/ libs/html-cust.xsl quickguide/quickguide.xml [09:09] warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl" [09:10] compilation error: file libs/html-cust.xsl line 6 element import [09:10] xsl:import : unable to load /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl [09:10] make: *** [qg] Error 5 [09:10] no hoary [09:10] did you install docbook xsl [09:11] maybe not [09:11] lol no i didnt [09:11] sorry! [09:12] Ok install [09:13] then depending on where it is installed you will need to comment / uncommnet the xsl:import [09:14] alright [09:15] you do hav ethe DTD installed right? [09:17] which one [09:17] we are using 4.1.2 cause of scrollkeeper problems [09:17] but you can also install 4.3 [09:18] if you have both in your xml catalog then processing will not go to the network and so will be faster [09:19] Im not sure which packages I need to have installed [09:19] Im still getting a build error [09:19] what did you install [09:20] docbook-xsl [09:20] ok and what is the error [09:21] warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/html/profile-chunk.xsl" [09:21] Ok, comment that line and uncomment the other xsl:import [09:21] in libs/html-cust.xsl [09:22] these are my lines, which should I comment [09:22] [09:22] [09:22] [09:23] It should look like this [09:23] [09:23] [09:23] [09:23] [09:23] [09:23] [09:23] [09:26] OOOOooo, its working :) [09:26] done [09:26] nice [09:26] so what exactly did that build? [09:26] yes, nice! thanks man [09:26] the quick guide [09:26] look in build [09:27] the build dir is created duing the make [09:27] ah the html version [09:27] it is not part of the repos [09:27] with css! nice [09:27] since the html version :-) is presentational layer [09:27] yes you know css [09:28] you can customize it if you like via /libs/*.css [09:29] sabmoc: the idea with docbook is that you can build documentation they way it should be built [09:29] from the src [09:29] any target formats derived by transformation are never edited [09:29] only the xml [09:30] hence we dont have HTML, XHTML, RTF, or PDF in the repso [09:30] repos [09:30] so only docbook in the repo [09:30] yes [09:30] and support scripts [09:30] very cool [09:30] All yelp does is transform the xml inline [09:30] yelp has xsl stylesheets compiled into it [09:31] do we have a docbook template somewhere? I have a small document I want to convert from the wiki [09:31] when yelp loads a docbook xml document it produces html [09:31] no we dont [09:31] what is the document [09:31] froud, really! so in yelp I am actually looking at html [09:31] yes [09:32] thats cool [09:32] yelp is dynamic transform [09:32] the make qg is a static transform [09:33] this doc https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GPGsigningforSSHHowTo [09:33] Hmm nice a HowTo [09:33] apparently some people claim it is useful so I was going to submit it as a patch to the admin guide after I get it into docbook from [09:34] thank you [09:34] you can use docbook article format for that [09:34] here is a template [09:34] [09:34] "http://www.docbook.org/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd"> [09:34]

[09:34] Article Title [09:34] [09:34] Section1 Title [09:34] Text [09:34] [09:34]

[09:34] When you are ready I will put it in my branch [09:34] you are a very fast typer :) [09:35] you mean copy paster [09:35] ok, that template will save me several hours at least :D [09:35] you are a fast clicker [09:35] what do you use to edit [09:36] emacs xml mode [09:36] Hmm emacs+psgmls hey [09:36] nice [09:37] if you like you may want to write the section on GPG in the User Guide [09:37] yes, actually I guess it is called nXML mode, I dont know what the "n" is for [09:37] yes I would like that! [09:38] have you looked at the User Guide outline [09:38] you may have suggestions for it [09:38] not yet [09:38] which documents are we going to focus on for this next release? [09:38] well make your document as an article [09:39] a few [09:39] first we must restructure the repos [09:39] then we can focus on doc [09:39] I noticed it seemed the quick guide was a big goal for hoary [09:39] we need to upgrade FAQ Guide to Hoary [09:40] yes, cause many people here are new to docbook [09:40] like me [09:40] and we first had to build the framework [09:40] well, i do have a little xp, but nothing much really [09:40] it's ok to be new, I was once a newbie to docbook [09:40] heheh [09:41] As we build the docteam people have picked it up very quickly [09:41] I see why [09:41] any the repos is new [09:41] people are very helpful [09:41] we try [09:42] but learning docbook if you are documenting FOSS apps is very important [09:42] both GNOME and KDE use Docbook exclusively [09:42] and many other projects like TLDP [09:43] always, if you know docbook you can contribute to documenting FOSS [09:43] yes, its very handy [09:43] that said, we do have a policy to enable anyone to write hence we have wiki [09:44] some people find the barrier to docbook to high [09:44] I think the wiki is an awesome documentation system [09:44] but sometimes I wonder... [09:44] It has merit [09:44] I dont want to compare [09:44] but is not the best format [09:45] but I remember what it was like in the gentoo forums about a year or two ago, lots of people posted howto, lots lots lots.. and it was just a forum [09:45] but it was easy to post [09:45] yes, and it is easy to become a mess [09:45] because you just use a text editor, then cut and past it into the forum comment box [09:45] but gentoo also have xml in the backend [09:46] very easy, its not a great system, but someone who just wants to write and post its perfect [09:46] yes we gleen much knowledge from this [09:46] web-based tools are great for getting documents up quick [09:46] yep [09:47] but not so great from the maintenance aspect [09:47] they also are stuck in their format [09:47] the wiki really helps bring the quality up, but its a little harder to post [09:47] whereas with xml you can just write stylesheets and transform to a fromat [09:47] yes [09:48] Ideally I would like to see a round trip [09:48] users can edit docbook in web-based app [09:48] yes, the forum is not great for real documentation, because everything has to be completely rewritten [09:48] and the changes are committed to the respo [09:48] that would be fantastic [09:48] but it is not that simple [09:48] a wysiwyg docbook editor [09:49] well you cant bring single source and wysiwyg into the same space [09:49] they are different polarity [09:49] yeah, thats whast I was just thinking too [09:49] like the ends of a broom stick [09:49] yep [09:50] if you bend the stick to get it together the stick breaks [09:50] it would be imposible [09:50] You can have WYSIOO [09:50] which is why nobody has done it yet, impossible [09:50] What you See is One Option [09:50] Tool like XXE and Syntex have this [09:51] But under Web-based app you need a way to define the semantics [09:52] so the wiki type of user soon gets tired of defining semantics and is distracted form actually writing [09:53] if you are interested in knowing more about how XML benefits documentation see my article http://www.sastc.org.za/articles/xml-solv-prop.html [09:54] I will read it [09:54] what is XXE and Syntex? [09:54] Syntex is a commmercial structured editor [09:54] XXE has a community edition but is Java [09:54] are you apporsed to java [09:55] if not see http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/ === Liz [~Liz@fixed-203-87-27-63.nsw.chariot.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:55] I dont run java if I can help it [09:55] but Im not opposed to it [09:55] what is it with people and java [09:55] java is beautiful, like Liz [09:55] wow that looks like a good article [09:56] lol [09:56]