[12:01] <sabmoc> mako, have time to talk about confrence booths?
[12:05] <mako> sabmoc: give me a second.. i'm sending off something to -devel about these userlinux packages
[12:06] <sabmoc> mako, no problem
[12:07] <mako> sabmoc: hey dude
[12:08] <mako> sabmoc: ok.. in terms of support for ubuntu at conferences .. the only thing we curretnly have to send is cds
[12:08] <mako> sabmoc: but we can send as many as one might need
[12:08] <sabmoc> mako, that is all we want
[12:08] <mako> sabmoc: when?
[12:08] <sabmoc> mako, the confrence is april 30th
[12:08] <mako> sabmoc: no rush then.. you'll get hoary cds
[12:08] <mako> how many cds do you think you want?
[12:08] <sabmoc> mako, Im not sure
[12:09] <mako> sabmoc: how big is the conference?
[12:09] <sabmoc> can I get back to you on that
[12:09] <mako> sabmoc: of course
[12:09] <sabmoc> when do you need to know by?
[12:09] <mako> two weeks from now? maybe a little bit more?
[12:09] <sabmoc> I will let you know in less than a week
[12:09] <mako> perfect
[12:10] <sabmoc> Im still trying to find out if there will already be an Ubuntu booth there or not
[12:10] <mako> go to shipit.ubuntulinux.org and make the request
[12:10] <mako> if it's for whole boatload, it will not let uyou order them from the web
[12:10] <mako> but you can set it to zero and then email me and i can place the order for you
[12:10] <mako> but you still need to put your shipping information in that way
[12:10] <mako> and you'll need to confirm any large order
[12:10] <mako> what conf?
[12:10] <sabmoc> mako, Linux NorthWest Fest
[12:10] <mako> sabmoc: ahh. i think i am already sending CDs
[12:11] <mako> someone else has contacted me about this
[12:11] <mako> unless it was you
[12:11] <mako> but there won't be a booth
[12:11] <sabmoc> it might be someone from my team
[12:11] <mako> hm.. send me an email
[12:11] <mako> and i will put you guys in contact
[12:11] <mako> better to have a coordinated ubuntu plan :)
[12:11] <sabmoc> 3 members of the loco canadian team are going, was it Burgundavia  that contacted you?
[12:11] <mako> yeah, i'm from seattle but i've moved out to nyc in the last year
[12:12] <mako> no, it wasn't burgundavia, it was someone i didn't know
[12:12] <tseng> i think funding for udu is over
[12:12] <sabmoc> ah ok, we'll I emailed the confrence mailing list so I should find out who else is going from ubuntu shortly
[12:12] <Burgundavia> ya, but I tried
[12:12] <tseng> at least people were getting it approved weeks ago
[12:13] <Burgundavia> I really only decided recently
[12:13] <Burgundavia> so I figured I would try
[12:13] <Burgundavia> I don't really expect to get anything
[12:13] <Burgundavia> which means it is LFNW for me
[12:14] <sabmoc> *and the people rejoice*
[12:18] <dholbach> azeem: ping
[12:18] <azeem> hi
[12:19] <mako> azeem: hi :)
[12:19] <mako> dholbach: hi :)
[12:19] <dholbach> azeem: i just saw that multisync was on our to-fix list and wondered if you wanted to fix it (http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/m/multisync/0.82-5ubuntu2/)
[12:19] <dholbach> hey mako 
[12:19] <azeem> hi mako
[12:19] <azeem> mako: you going to LinuxTag?
[12:19] <lamont> dholbach: will look
[12:20] <dholbach> lamont: hm?
[12:20] <dholbach> lamont: i asked azeem :-)
[12:20] <lamont> dholbach: doh\
[12:20] <dholbach> lamont: but i won't stop you :-)
[12:20] <lamont> saw the highlight, assumed me... :-)
[12:21] <lamont> I don't always like that the buildlogs are under ~lamont
[12:21] <dholbach> i want   http://qa.ubuntu.com   :-)
[12:21] <azeem> dholbach: hrm
[12:21] <mako> azeem: yes, i plan to
[12:21] <lamont> hrm.. that one seems vaguely like something under the 7891-ish (7885-7893 ish)
[12:21] <azeem> nice
[12:22] <mako> azeem: i submitted a couple talk proposals but they haven't gotten back to folks yet.. i guess there's some delay
[12:22] <schweeb> dholbach: indeed
[12:22] <azeem> mako: you going to LSM as well, right?
[12:22] <mako> azeem: yes, i'm definitely going there.. i'm on the schedule already
[12:22] <azeem> mako: see #debian-devel@OFTC from half an hour ago, tbm talked about it
[12:22] <azeem> (delay, that is)
[12:23] <mako> yeah, i'm not really worried 
[12:23] <mako> whatever :)
[12:24] <Mithrandir> sabmoc: please turn off public away.
[12:24] <mako> but if my ubuntu talk gets accepted, it means i can go and not take vacation, which vastly increases the chances of me being able to go :)
[12:33] <xuzo> is the "automount usb devices" feature supposed to work on hoary?
[12:34] <azeem> dholbach: heimdal-dev and libedata-book1.2-dev can't be installed together in hoary, though I haven't figured out why yet
[12:36] <Kamion> mdz: ia64 CDs> done
[12:36] <dholbach> azeem: *argl* i'll have a look at it too
[12:37] <fyrty> hola
[12:37] <fyrty> alguien habla espaol ?
[12:37] <Mithrandir> azeem: libedata-book1.2-dev depends on libkrb5-dev which conflicts with heimdal-dev
[12:37] <azeem> ah
[12:37] <xuzo> fyrty: #ubuntu-es
[12:40] <seb128> azeem: and the reason is that firefox/kde use libkrb5, and we need to use the same to build stuff like OO.o
[12:40] <azeem> well, not sure what to do; this doesn't look like a multisync issue
[12:40] <seb128> just build it with krb5 ?
[12:42] <azeem> ok
[01:05] <stuNNed> hi i can't find any documentation on loading a custom dsdt, i see this feature is avail in hoary, sorry for asking non-devel quest
[01:10] <azeem> ok, seems to work fine
[01:10] <azeem> eh, s/work/build/
[01:11] <azeem> dholbach: http://people.debian.org/~mbanck/ubuntu-hoary/multisync_0.82-5ubuntu3_source.changes
[01:11] <dholbach> azeem: shall i upload it for you or will it be in debian soon, so i could prod elmo to sync?
[01:12] <azeem> dholbach: debian isn't affected, it doesn't have evolution-1.2
[01:12] <azeem> or whatever it was that caused the problem
[01:13] <dholbach> azeem: alright, will look in some minutes
[01:13] <dholbach> azeem: thanks for fixing :-)
[01:14] <azeem> I haven't tested whatever part of multisync it is that uses heimdal/kerberos, but the basic packages still run
[01:16] <seb128> azeem: and evo uses heimdal for debian
[01:16] <azeem> ok
[01:23] <zenwhen> hald is suddenly eating cpu cycles out of nowhere
[01:23] <zenwhen> enough to make my system choppy
[01:33] <kent> has some one tried to move the gcursor function to gnome-theme-manager yet?
[01:35] <ogra> kent, next release
[01:37] <kent> ogra, as in Gnome 2.12?
[01:38] <ogra> kent, probably, i'm thinking about looking at injecting it in the theme manager for gnome 2.12
[01:43] <kent> ogra, I grabed gcursor source from ubuntu archive and looked at it (and theme-manager in capplets from ubuntu archive - using hoary) and it seems that it should not be so hard to do. I even played with glade and made the .glade file for theme-manager get a tab for cursors, just for fun. I can hardly code so I cant help :(
[01:44] <seb128> ogra: I'm not sure that's a good idea, rather the mouse capplet
[01:44] <seb128> ogra: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=110670
[01:45] <ogra> seb128, anywhere it fits ;) i havent looked into it extensively yet....wanted to talk to jdub once i have a bit spare time....
[01:45] <seb128> why to jdub ?
[01:45] <ogra> seb128, he wrote somethig about including it on ubuntu-devel recently
[01:46] <seb128> just a remark than it would be nice in a capplet IIRC
[01:46] <seb128> you probably want to talk to sven, he's one of the upstream 
[01:46] <seb128> (he's on the MOTU list IIRC)
[01:47] <ogra> seb128, i know.... i'll have to review his hula packages before release....
[01:47] <seb128> k
[01:49] <jdub> yeah man, i would totally send you to talk to someone else anyway :)
[01:49] <ogra> heh
[01:50] <ogra> jdub, its not on my todo currently, but i kept your mail in mind...
[01:50] <ogra> and i'll come back to it if nobody else implements it
[01:50] <seb128> patches are welcome upstream :)
[01:51] <ogra> :)
[01:51] <seb128> jdub: sorry to bother you again with that, but is there any desktop file update planned for g-a-i or that's shifted from hoary ?
[01:51] <jdub> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/03/msg02698.html
[01:52] <jdub> seb128: yes, i am doing nothing else today :-)
[01:52] <seb128> :)
[01:52] <jdub> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/03/msg02694.html
[01:52] <seb128> the grey backgrounds are ugly
[01:55] <ogra> i like them
[01:55] <jdub> seb128: yeah, somehow the "use system colours" switch was turned on
[01:55] <jdub> thom: ping
[01:56] <seb128>  mozilla-firefox (1.0.2-0ubuntu2) hoary; urgency=low
[01:56] <seb128>  .
[01:56] <seb128>    * Fix gtk2 themer to correctly set foreground and background
[01:56] <seb128> 
[01:56] <seb128> hum, I may want this update :)
[01:59] <mdke> is something up with the archives atm?
[01:59] <zenwhen> is it flooding in ogra?
[01:59] <mdke> been getting errors for ages
[01:59] <jdub> seb128: d'oh
[02:00] <zenwhen> is the server that was supposed to receive that data not up yet?
[02:00] <dholbach> zenwhen: no, not up yet
[02:00] <ogra> zenwhen, yup....today the traffic rised, wondering why
[02:01] <ogra> and i got my first mac mini submission :-D
[02:01] <mdz> Kamion: still here?
[02:04] <zenwhen> :D
[02:05] <dholbach> seb128: what about the  gtk-doc-tools -fix? will we get it from debian?
[02:11] <dholbach> seb128: i think i'd need it for a fixed gmime2
[02:12] <seb128> Do we have a build issue for something ?
[02:12] <dholbach> seb128: hm?
[02:13] <seb128> I've ignored that because I've not noticed any breakage due to gtk-doc-tools for the moment
[02:13] <seb128> and there is no reason to change something working :p
[02:14] <dholbach> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/g/gmime2/2.0.14-2/gmime2_2.0.14-2_20050321-1131-amd64-failed
[02:14] <seb128> k, I'll fix it tomorrow
[02:15] <dholbach> seb128: thank you very much
[02:15] <seb128> np
[02:15] <seb128> BTW for the moment time to sleep
[02:15] <seb128> 'night 
[02:16] <dholbach> good night seb
[02:16] <ogra> night seb128 
[02:18] <mdz> does anyone know where Kamion left off?
[02:18] <mdz> I don't see a new d-i upload, nor new CD builds as yet
[02:18] <mdz> lamont: can you tell me if a d-i build happened?
[02:19] <dholbach> mdz: 1h40m ago he said the last thing, but i'm sure you know that already
[02:23] <Kamion> mdz: yes, hold on a sec
[02:24] <Kamion> lamont: if so, could you tell me what version of eject was in the powerpc d-i build you did?
[02:25] <Kamion> s/you did/that happened/
[02:25] <Kamion> the noises I was hearing in scrollback were of a d-i build happening disturbingly early
[02:25] <mdz> Kamion: I see no d-i build in the upload queue
[02:27] <Kamion> mdz: ok. (I'd gone off for a bit to do things at home while stuff built ...)
[02:29] <zul> mdz: ping...bug #8288...???
[02:30] <zul> mdz: nm..
[02:31] <Kamion> mdz: shall I trigger one, or have you done so?
[02:32] <Kamion> zul: might be worth pointing out to that patch submitter that setting bugs PENDINGUPLOAD when they aren't in a developer's local tree yet actively gets in the way of our tracking
[02:32] <mdz> Kamion: I have not, feel free
[02:32] <Kamion> running
[02:36] <lamont> I just indicated when I thought it would probably be ready for one...
[02:36] <Kamion> sed: can't read debian-installer_20041227ubuntu23.0.20050329_i386.changes: No such file or directory
[02:36] <Kamion> mv: cannot stat `debian-installer_20041227ubuntu23.0.20050329_i386.changes': No such file or directory
[02:36] <Kamion> sed: can't read debian-installer_20041227ubuntu23.0.20050329_amd64.changes: No such file or directory
[02:36] <Kamion> mv: cannot stat `debian-installer_20041227ubuntu23.0.20050329_amd64.changes': No such file or directory
[02:36] <Kamion> is that bad?
[02:37] <lamont> Kamion: did you happen to just have a build running?
[02:37] <mdz> Kamion: what time do you want to start the upload quarantine for RC?
[02:37] <Kamion> lamont: what do you mean?
[02:37] <lamont> yellow had two buildd's running...  Just did a killall make on it...
[02:37] <lamont> so if you were running BuildDI, um... oops
[02:37] <Kamion> lamont: yes, I just had a build running
[02:38] <Kamion> lamont: same on mcmurdo
[02:38] <lamont> uh, want me to kick one, or you?
[02:38] <Kamion> er, actually, do I mean mcmurdo? i386 and amd64 anyway
[02:38] <lamont> didn't kill mcmurdo, though...
[02:38] <Kamion> lamont: please do, I've lost track of which is which
[02:38] <lamont> yellow == amd64
[02:39] <Kamion> hooker's finished apparently successfully; that's ia64 IIRC
[02:39] <Kamion> ross (powerpc) is still going
[02:39] <Kamion> mdz: main thing that concerns me is that I haven't yet received a complete Xhosa installer translation, and I know that's a target
[02:39] <Kamion> Adi promised me a new set of files today, but I guess that slipped
[02:40] <mdz> we set a deadline for it; if it missed, it missed
[02:40] <lamont> wanna-build -bamd64/build-db -dhoary --info debian-installer
[02:40] <lamont> debian-installer: not registered
[02:40] <lamont> wth?
[02:41] <Kamion> mdz: other than that ... what's the GNOME situation?
[02:42] <mdz> Kamion: we're going to delay final to get 2.10.1 in
[02:42] <jdub> ?
[02:42] <jdub> why?
[02:43] <lamont> Kamion: amd64 running
[02:43] <mdz> jdub: because we don't have time to test that stuff on the day of release
[02:44] <jdub> but how much do we care?
[02:44] <jdub> some releases will be translations-only -> pretty safe
[02:44] <mdz> depending on which packages drop on the last day, we might care a lot
[02:44] <lamont> Kamion: for future note, BuildDI should not be run in a time that spans :[03] 3
[02:44] <jdub> some releases will have changes, some of which we care about, some we don't
[02:45] <jdub> mdz: the tarballs are released on the monday
[02:45] <mdz> jdub: last time they rolled in monday, tuesday and wednesday
[02:45] <mdz> if we are guaranteed to have them all on monday, we can do that
[02:45] <mdz> and go out on the 6th
[02:45] <jdub> we're not, not entirely
[02:46] <jdub> but i'm not sure why we care
[02:46] <jdub> much of the important stuff will be in cvs already
[02:46] <mdz> we need to give ourselves a full day for release prep and test cycles
[02:46] <mdz> that means no last-minute new code
[02:46] <Kamion> lamont: hmm. ok :)
[02:47] <jdub> so let's not take it
[02:47] <jdub> i really don't think this is slip-worthy
[02:47] <mdz> I gave sabdfl the options, and he said he would rather delay than miss some 2.10.1
[02:47] <Kamion> I'm all for a plan that involves giving ourselves a full day for test cycles, because that means I might not nearly kill myself with work on release day
[02:47] <mdz> when I suggested that we take what we had on Monday out of 2.10.1
[02:47] <lamont> Kamion: the failure on mcmurdo was because debian-installer/Packages.gz didn't exist when you tried to fetch it, you see....
[02:48] <Kamion> I slept for sixteen hours straight following warty release
[02:48] <jdub> Kamion: the objective for breezy is to have three :)
[02:48] <mdz> jdub: I'll postpone announcing the delay if you want to argue your case with him
[02:49] <Kamion> jdub: three what?
[02:49] <mdz> I did present that as one of the options
[02:49] <jdub> Kamion: days
[02:49] <Kamion> yeah. and will that actually happen, I wonder? releases have been awfully last-minute so far
[02:49] <mdz> jdub: for Breezy, I want to sync RC with GNOME 2.12
[02:49] <Kamion> so excuse my scepticism :-)
[02:49] <jdub> mdz: there's probably little use. it's going to be bling-related.
[02:50] <jdub> Kamion: yes, we'll lock down on monday and release on wednesday, same as gnome.
[02:50] <mdz> jdub: the argument was that if we do that, we don't have GNOME 2.10, and we don't have GNOME 2.10.1, we have a mix
[02:50] <Kamion> jdub: it has never actually happened that way so far
[02:50] <Robot101> *sigh at impending flamewar*
[02:50] <jdub> Kamion: i'm not saying it has, i'm saying it will
[02:50] <Robot101> someone proposed a patch to make Gaim use GConf
[02:50] <jdub> mdz: the mix really doesn't matter -> we're very smart people :)
[02:50] <mdz> jdub: I know
[02:50] <Robot101> the windows porter helpfully pipes up to explain how much that would suck
[02:51] <mdz> jdub: it's a matter of what we say in the release announcement, I suppose
[02:51] <jdub> mdz: explain RC/2.12 sync?
[02:51] <mdz> jdub: giving us a full week to QA before final
[02:51] <jdub> mdz: 2.12.1?
[02:51] <mdz> jdub: er, yeah, I meant 2.12.1
[02:51] <jdub> yeah, agree
[02:52] <jdub> we do mon/wed the week after
[02:52] <mdz> right
[02:52] <jdub> in that case, i'll schedule 2.12.1 now
[02:53] <Kamion> that all makes sense; it just has to include EVERYTHING, including <small>artwork</small> ;)
[02:53] <mdz> jdub: speaking of artwork, do we have a sound theme or no?
[02:54] <jdub> no
[02:54] <mdz> do I need to call Cliff?
[02:55] <mdz> the sound theme was part of the package
[02:55] <jdub> probably not
[02:57] <sabmoc> smurfix, awake?
[02:57] <Kamion> lamont: ross is done; do I have the other two d-i uploads?
[02:58] <Kamion> lamont: (and were the d-i uploads from hooker and ross sane, given that I started them between :30 and :33?)
[02:58] <lamont> Kamion: ross is, um. not done.  same issue (upload didn't happen see my WTH question above - babysitting this run
[02:59] <lamont> the other 2 are uplaoded
[03:00] <lamont> ross either made it or didnt.
[03:00] <lamont> \Mar 29 02:00:24 buildd-uploader: Setting to Uploaded(hoary): debian-installer 
[03:01] <lamont> mdz: any chance you can still kick cron.hourly on jackass?
[03:01] <Kamion> lamont: ok, could you babysit a rerun? I don't want to rerun it myself because I know build,build without intervening byhand is risky
[03:01] <lamont> Kamion: ross is now uploaded
[03:01] <lamont> but that :24 means it may have missed the last cron.hourly before the :03 cron.daily
[03:01] <Kamion> and hooker is currently EDONTCARE
[03:01] <ogra> sabmoc, its 3am here, only the crazy guys are still up :)
[03:01] <lamont> righty
[03:02] <dholbach> yeah
[03:02] <mdz> lamont: I have the privileges to do so; I do not know whether it is safe
[03:02] <lamont> although I'll go kick it anyway after cron.daily
[03:02] <lamont> mdz: then nm,
[03:02] <sabmoc> ogra, so you're saying smurfix isnt crazy enough?
[03:02] <lamont> mdz: if we want to let Kamion sleep, and ppc doesn't show up in the archive with i386/amd64, then a cron.daily run after the :03 one finishes would be helpful
[03:03] <ogra> sabmoc, he probably has a real life to cope with tomorrow ;)
[03:03] <lamont> but not before it finishes...
[03:03] <sabmoc> haha
[03:03] <mdz> lamont: Kamion can sleep; I'll drive
[03:04] <mdz> Kamion: the d-i build is basically only translation updates anyway, right?
[03:04] <mdz> I don't anticipate any problems that would require your presence
[03:04] <lamont> is d-i byhanding automated now?
[03:04] <mdz> I'd rather you were well-rested for tomorrow
[03:04] <mdz> lamont: no
[03:05] <Kamion> mdz: right, just translations; the last base-config change is substantive, but is easier to fix if it goes wrong
[03:05] <Kamion> I can test that tomorrow
[03:05] <lamont> ah, well, I think that happens in cron.hourly, in which case that's ready to happen
[03:05] <Kamion> I need to stay up for a little bit more to do the tail-end of translation coordination from today, but I'll go and crash after that
[03:07] <Kamion> for some reason msgmerge is being a whole lot slower today than I'm sure it was yesterday
[03:09] <mdz> Kamion: can you push an update of the published seeds?
[03:10] <aj> hrm
[03:12] <mdz> lamont: amd64, i386 and powerpc all showed
[03:12] <ogra> argh....i knew adding a .desktop file was a bad idea....i get about a submission per minute....
[03:13] <Burgundavia> ogra: isn't that a good thing?
[03:13] <lamont> mdz: good
[03:14] <ogra> Burgundavia, nope, not with this prerelease, i have to compute them all by hand then.... the next release adds a md5sum as filename instead of hwdb.xml....(already on my disk here)
[03:14] <lamont> mdz: ia64 build launched, should anyone care
[03:15] <mdz> wow, that byhand went poorly
[03:16] <Kamion> http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html -> mentions Ubuntu
[03:16] <Kamion> mdz: done
[03:16] <Burgundavia> ogra: ah
[03:17] <mdz> I think we may need a new d-i build
[03:17] <mdz> powerpc worked, the other two were skipped without warning
[03:17] <Robot101> does the installer have a "Shrink Windows partition to make space for Ubuntu" option, or do you have to do it via the manual badger?
[03:18] <ogra> Burgundavia, and i'll have to mail them the md5sum back to add it to their client....(its necessary to distinguish between the users)
[03:18] <Burgundavia> ogra: ah
[03:18] <ogra> Burgundavia, so it will be a lot of work waiting for me....
[03:19] <Kamion> Robot101: manual
[03:20] <lamont> hrm.. somehow that's not surprising...
[03:20] <Burgundavia> ogra: anything I can help with?
[03:20] <lamont> gimme a minute
[03:20] <ogra> Burgundavia, not yet, but probably between RC and release....i'll come back to you ;)
[03:21] <Burgundavia> ogra: ok
[03:21] <mdz> lamont: it was my fuckup
[03:21] <lamont> mdz: try the byhand again?
[03:21] <mdz> lamont: I can't; the files have been moved away and I don't want to try to reassemble them
[03:21] <mdz> safest would be a new set of builds
[03:23] <mdz> Kamion: since he mentions Ubuntu, perhaps he could take a look at that new "ntfsresize ate my disk" bug?
[03:25] <Kamion> mdz: I just followed up to that asking if the reporter could try the troubleshooting instructions
[03:25] <Kamion> I imagine that's all upstream would say to start with anyway
[03:29] <lamont> mdz: and you just need i386, amd64?
[03:29] <mdz> lamont: is it significantly easier to skip powerpc?
[03:29] <mdz> I thought you had started them already :-/
[03:29] <lamont> one less machine to make sure it's right on...
[03:29] <mdz> I guess we'll miss :33
[03:30] <lamont> was dealing with an email issue - sorry
[03:30] <mdz> my byhand fuckup was the result of having hacked the script to process a subset of architectures the last time
[03:30] <mdz> I want to keep it simple on this end
[03:31] <lamont> so you want ppc again? or it's already in the archive?
[03:31] <mdz> I want a full set of builds
[03:31] <lamont> is there already a 20050329 in the archive for ppc?
[03:31] <mdz> yes
[03:31] <lamont> ok.  it'll get 200503290
[03:31] <mdz> please give them all the same version number
[03:32] <mdz> if you'd prefer to re-upload 20050329, we could try that
[03:32] <mdz> I think it'll get rejected
[03:32] <lamont> ok.. they'll all get 200503290
[03:33] <lamont> (waiting for :35)
[03:36] <lamont> launched, x4
[03:36] <lamont> interesting that d-i takes 6 minutes on ppc, 3 on ia64, 2.5 on amd64, and 2- on i386.
[03:37] <Kamion> it has more bits to it on powerpc
[03:37] <Kamion> three kernels ...
[03:37] <lamont> ah, ok
[03:38] <lamont> so with no more action on my part, bits should be ready to byhand at :44 ish
[03:38] <lamont> er, :45, since cron.hourly has to run first
[03:39] <zenwhen> http://gnomesupport.org/forums/
[03:39] <zenwhen> oh neat
[03:40] <Kamion> whoopsie
[03:44] <lamont> so, for the record, :35 is too soon too. fixored
[03:44] <lamont> ppc still running
[03:47] <lamont> uploaded x4, should be byhandable in < 5 min
[03:47] <lamont> :50
[03:47] <Burgundavia> mako: ping
[03:47] <lamont> mdz: feel free to verify that
[03:48] <mdz> lamont: amd64, i386 and ia64 in byhand, powerpc in unchecked
[03:48] <lamont> ppc will move at :50
[03:48] <lamont> cool.
[03:48] <jdub> gar, drowning in email is not a good start to the day
[03:49] <lamont> jdub: you want more??? :-)
[03:50] <jdub> not at all :|
[03:50] <Kamion> mdz: the recipe in #1912 reproduces for me with 2.10, and indeed 2.11 appears to fix it (and mentions some long file name fixes in the changelog)
[03:50] <tseng> jdub: i could send you one about libmono-dev
[03:51] <Kamion> mdz: can I sync it?
[03:51] <jdub> tseng: hrm, which reminds me -> mono 1.0.6 (or patch to fix beagle-related bug)... doable?
[03:51] <mdz> Kamion: which bits of dosfstools do we actually use (if any)?
[03:51] <mdz> if it can't break anything, sure
[03:52] <tseng> jdub: do you know what $beagle-related-bug expands to?
[03:52] <Kamion> looks like Debian #294177 in fact
[03:52] <jdub> tseng: not in any useful detail.
[03:52] <tseng> jdub: thats helpful..
[03:53] <mdz> jdub: any chance of getting the last of this gamin stuff cleaned up in the next few days?
[03:54] <mdz> jdub: I can reproduce #7078
[03:54] <jdub> tseng: dude, #dashboard :-)
[03:55] <tseng> dude, im in there
[03:55] <jdub> mdz: DV refuses to believe either us or the red hat desktop team that this bug exists
[03:55] <jdub> mdz: i'll point them all at martin's test output tonight, see if i can get some traction
[03:56] <mdz> jdub: is there any way to get debug output out of gamin?
[03:57] <mdz> either end of it?
[03:57] <Kamion> mdz: as far as I can tell we don't use any of it by default; we turned it all off in warty
[03:57] <jdub> yeah, both GAM_DEBUG=1
[03:57] <lamont> Kamion: they give you bo kata's in your school?
[03:57] <mdz> Kamion: perhaps we should remove it from base for breezy then
[03:57] <jdub> mdz: see martin's output files
[03:58] <mdz> lamont, Kamion: byhanded
[03:59] <mdz> ah, ok. so there's probably not much I could add by collecting more traces
[04:00] <Kamion> mdz: that would go against the "install useful filesystem stuff by default" bits, I think; and I think support for VFAT is really rather good to have. all I meant was that the installer doesn't run any dosfstools code automatically
[04:00] <wasabi_> good morning ubuntu-nam
[04:00] <Kamion> lamont: shotokan's entirely unarmed
[04:01] <Kamion> mdz: sync request mailed, anyhow
[04:11] <mdz> Kamion: I'm ready for CD builds, you?
[04:12] <Kamion> mdz: don't see new d-i in the archive yet
[04:12] <Kamion> oh, duh, my bad
[04:13] <mdz> already synced to little
[04:14] <Kamion> mdz: looks good; I've started cron.daily
[04:14] <wasabi_> so like where are buildd logs kept?
[04:15] <wasabi_> not just the "what's building" but the full output
[04:15] <Kamion> wasabi_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/
[04:15] <wasabi_> oh duh, i was in Lists
[04:15] <Kamion> whoa, debian-cd is REALLY verbose now I turned up the verbosity so I could see what list2cds was doing ...
[04:16] <mdz> Kamion: you're doing a non-jidgo build, right?
[04:16] <mdz> we don't have all day ;-)
[04:16] <lamont> Kamion: unarmed is so, um, unarmed. :-)
[04:16] <Kamion> mdz: we so do ;)
[04:16] <Kamion> mdz: I didn't turn jigdo off
[04:16] <mdz> Kamion: I can't start live builds until those are finished, no?
[04:16] <Kamion> mdz: that's true
[04:16] <mdz> it takes like an hour with jigdo
[04:17] <mdz> and perhaps 10-15 minutes without
[04:17] <Kamion> sigh, oh-kay, restarting
[04:17] <lamont> Kamion: you should schedule the builds so that livecd builds first... :-)
[04:17] <mdz> thanks
[04:18] <lamont> mdz: 7846: was not reproducible on the buildd
[04:18] <Kamion> lamont: actually the crontab is indeed that way round
[04:18] <Kamion> at least for Ubuntu
[04:19] <Kamion> I've stopped that build and started a live one instead, to keep mdz happy :-)
[04:19] <mdz> I will have all 3 live CDs downloaded and tested before you have your first jigdo file ;-)
[04:19] <lamont> Kamion: did we schedule our workout BOF?
[04:20] <Kamion> mdz: it makes zero difference to me, I will be asleep while it's building ;)
[04:20] <jdub> mdz: so was the delay going to be one week, or one day?
[04:20] <mdz> jdub: two days
[04:20] <Kamion> lamont: nope
[04:20] <jdub> to release on friday?
[04:20] <mdz> jdub: yes
[04:21] <mdz> the late-week kubuntu release went over well
[04:21] <mdz> some might say a bit too well...
[04:21] <jdub> late week is bad for pro press
[04:21] <jdub> but that's not a huge concern for us atm
[04:22] <mdz> if you're confident that we'd be happy with what we got on monday, we could reopen the discussion
[04:22] <mdz> but we ought to decide on this before RC
[04:23] <jdub> i don't think there's much point reopening it
[04:26] <mdz> Kamion: ooh, .torrents, does that mean thom is giving us auto-torrent-love?
[04:27] <Kamion> mdz: I put them in a suitable place and told him where they were; I don't know if he's done the other side yet
[04:29] <mdz> Kamion: are the mirrors updated?
[04:29] <mdz> I don't see any rsync connections active, but usually it takes longer than this
[04:30] <Kamion> mdz: cdimage.ubuntu.com seems to be
[04:31] <Kamion> mirnyy is happier of late, I think
[04:31] <Kamion> install CD build running; I've disabled the cron jobs, so from now on Ubuntu CD builds are manual only
[04:31] <Kamion> until RC goes out that is
[04:44] <ogra> does anybody know of a python-cgitb backport for woody ? 
[04:46] <mdz> thom: I've been seeing some instances where I don't get switched back to vt7 after opening the lid; is that likely the state-file-being-clobbered bug?
[05:01] <dholbach> me too
[05:01] <dholbach> i'm off to bed
[05:02] <dholbach> sleep tight everyone
[05:13] <fabbione> morning
[05:13] <ogra> hey fabbione 
[05:13] <fabbione> hey ogra
[05:13] <daniels> kamion goes to bed as fabbione awake
[05:13] <daniels> s
[05:13] <dholbach> hey fabbione 
[05:14] <fabbione> hey guys
[05:14] <ogra> daniels, bah, sleep is for lamers *g*
[05:15] <mdz> daniels: live CD testing with 6.8.2-6 is good on all my test systems
[05:15] <daniels> mdz: yes, and as I detailed before, live CD and upgrade testing went through fine in all my scenarios here
[05:20] <fabbione> mdz: are all the images up for testing?
[05:21] <mdz> fabbione: live are up
[05:21] <jbailey> Are these the RC images?
[05:21] <mdz> install should be up soon if it isn't already
[05:21] <mdz> the build is finished; not sure if the mirror is up to date
[05:21] <mdz> jbailey: these are approximately RCCC images
[05:22] <fabbione> mdz: roger
[05:23] <daniels> release candidate candidate candidate?
[05:23] <mdz> fabbione: both live and install are up
[05:23] <mdz> daniels: yes
[05:23] <mdz> daily-live/current -> 20050329
[05:23] <mdz> daily/current -> 20050329
[05:24] <fabbione> @ERROR: max connections (15) reached - try again later
[05:24] <fabbione> bah
[05:26] <jbailey> mdz: Cool.  Are we in a no-upload zone now, then?
[05:27] <mdz> jbailey: we're in a be-careful-dammit zone :-)
[05:28] <fabbione> hhehe
[05:28] <jbailey> mdz: Yeah. Mostly I'd like to get the udev with ieee1394 in.  It's adding 4 lines to two config files.
[05:28] <jbailey> It's be nice to be able to get feedback on that for RC.
[05:29] <mdz> jbailey: test thoroughly and upload
[05:29] <lamont> jbailey: if you upload udev, please do it while I'm awake, and tell me that you've done it...
[05:30] <lamont> well, actually, as long as noone has _versioned_ depends on the newer udev, we're ok
[05:31] <fabbione>  /usr/bin/autoconf: line 15: /dev/null: Permission denied
[05:31] <fabbione> lamont: i guess you are talking about these errors, right?
[05:31] <lamont> fabbione: yep
[05:31] <lamont> fabbione: where was that?
[05:31] <mdz> sparc, I hope
[05:32] <calc> fabbione: nodev mounted
[05:32] <fabbione> lamont: yes, sparc
[05:32] <lamont> mdz: I still need to go finish cleaning up hoary-test
[05:32] <fabbione> calc: udev double mounted /dev
[05:32] <calc> fabbione: oh ok
[05:32] <fabbione> i have seen it once already
[05:32] <lamont> there are some of those that got marked as failed, etc
[05:33] <lamont> fabbione: I just installed udev in the chroot, then umounted dev/pts, dev/shm, and dev
[05:33] <fabbione> lamont: yes, that's why i noticed
[05:33] <fabbione> lamont: what are the packages at fault? kdebase?
[05:34] <lamont> fabbione: kdeaddons did it, dunno what else
[05:34] <lamont> anything that build-depends somethign that depends hal, dbus-1, or udev
[05:35] <fabbione> i noticed the first failure with kdebase..
[05:35] <lamont> fabbione: I was beyond tracking down _who_ did it...
[05:35] <lamont> was too busy fixing 2 chroots on 11 buildd;s
[05:35] <fabbione> yeah i could guess that
[05:36] <fabbione> so the solution is to install udev in the chroot basically
[05:36] <lamont> yeah
[05:36] <fabbione> hackish
[05:36] <lamont> which means that lacking a build-dep on debconf, and about 15 others will no longer be noticed.
[05:36] <fabbione> dpkg-gencontrol: error: package linux-xen0-2.6.10-5-386-xen0 not in control info
[05:36] <fabbione> HMMMM
[05:36] <lamont> fabbione: dealing with it properly is on my post-hoary list
[05:37] <fabbione> lamont: yeah, there is no time for hoary...
[05:37] <lamont> fabbione: my thinking for post-hoary is to divert start-stop-daemon, and mount :-)
[05:38] <fabbione> lamont: good idea actually. btw how do you handle the mount of udev after a buildd reboot? manually?
[05:38] <lamont> fabbione: I undo what the postinst did after installing it in the chroot.
[05:39] <lamont> that way we have the udev package, but none of the doesn't-work-in-a-chroot instanity
[05:39] <fabbione> i guess i need to check that
[05:39] <lamont> insanity, even
[05:39] <lamont> oh, and umount chroot-hoary/.dev as well. :-)
[05:39] <lamont> if so inclined
[05:39] <fabbione> so you install udev, but you don't run udev in the chroot....
[05:40] <lamont> correct
[05:40] <lamont> can't run udev in the chroot
[05:40] <lamont> it kinda wants to be one-per-systemmm
[05:40] <fabbione> and you mount manually /dev & Co.
[05:40] <lamont> so you install udev in the chroot, undo the mount-funnies, and let it rip
[05:40] <fabbione> gotcha
[05:40] <lamont>  /dev is the static one that debootstrap built
[05:41] <lamont> the trick is to make sure that udev's postinst _NEVER_ runs again.  And that you have /dev/ sane again.
[05:41] <fabbione> meh.. you can only put udev on hold to avoid that
[05:42] <lamont> yeah, but it has to be installed in the chroot, and you have to fix /dev to be sane
[05:42] <lamont> and if someone has versioned build-deps on a newversion of udev between now and release, I'll have to hurt something
[05:43] <fabbione> ehhehe
[05:44] <daniels> lamont: wget it over the lan and then run rsync-over-ssh to chinstrap or so
[05:44] <fabbione> lamont: what was that insane deb line to grab _all.deb from another arch?
[05:51] <lamont> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dists/hoary/main/binary-i386/
[05:51] <lamont> it's not _insane_, it's just _sick_. :-)
[05:51] <fabbione> ehehhe
[05:52] <lamont> just don't let mdz see, or he'll get vomit on his keyboard again.
[05:54] <lamont> mdz: why did 8187 and 8189 get pointed at kernel-team:?
[05:56] <jbailey> lamont: Eh?  What did I do this time?
[05:57] <lamont> jbailey: just trying to figure out why kernel-team wound up on the CC list for 8187, which you closed... dunno if it was you or not, though.
[05:57] <mdz> lamont: wtf is that (dists/hoary/main/binary-i386)
[05:58] <jbailey> lamont: It was openned with the cc: in place according to the bugzilla email I got.
[05:58] <mdz> lamont: it came in with kernel-team on it
[06:00] <lamont> mdz: that's the magical sources.list line to grab arch: all packages from i386.  apt ignores all of the Arch: i386 packages - since you're on sparc, or whatever)
[06:00] <lamont> mdz: and yes, it's sick-and-wrong
[06:03] <mdz> eek, archive-copier failed due to a segfault on amd64
[06:03] <lamont> ew
[06:03] <mdz> anyone else doing an amd64 test install?
[06:04] <calc> mdz: i could download an iso and try it if no one else already has
[06:04] <calc> but i wouldn't be able to actually do the install until tomorrow
[06:04] <mdz> Mar 29 04:02:54 main-menu[3713] : (process:28494): Segmentation fault
[06:04] <mdz> Mar 29 04:02:54 main-menu[3713] : WARNING **: Configuring 'archive-copier' failed with error code 139
[06:04] <lamont> but I have no amd64 boxen
[06:05] <calc> i did hear that some people were having issues with the recent amd64 kernels
[06:05] <calc> post -28 iirc
[06:05] <mdz> package-cache-n[28546] : segfault at 0000002a959bd000 rip 0000002a956ea59d rsp 0000007fbfffebc8 error 4
[06:05] <mdz> the live CD was happy enough
[06:06] <calc> i'm running a hoary install from several months ago that has just been upgraded over time
[06:06] <calc> haven't rebooted since -28 though
[06:07] <mdz> I need for someone else to check whether this works for them
[06:07] <mdz> fabbione: do you have amd64?
[06:07] <daniels> i'll test it
[06:07] <mdz> thanks
[06:08] <daniels> cdimage/daily/current/hoary-install-amd64.iso?
[06:08] <mdz> package-cache-names.c hasn't changed in forever, I don't think
[06:08] <mdz> daniels: yep
[06:08] <daniels> rsyncing now
[06:10] <daniels> can you squeeze an install into 1.8GB?
[06:11] <calc> should be able to
[06:11] <calc> my /usr is using 1.5 and i have other stuff on it
[06:12] <daniels> remembering that we copy the archives on to /var
[06:12] <daniels> hm, I could probably disable that
[06:13] <calc> it should definitely fit if the cache was disabled
[06:14] <mdz> I can reproduce the segfault using package-cache-names on the command line
[06:14] <mdz> daniels: it fails well before you need to worry about that
[06:14] <daniels> awesome
[06:15] <mdz> powerpc gets past archive-copier OK, but it's broken in a different way
[06:15] <daniels> as long as it's not my fault
[06:15] <mdz> it asks a crazy malformed question
[06:15] <mdz> seems to be apt-setup-udeb's fault
[06:19] <mdz> I don't suppose there's a gdb-udeb
[06:19] <daniels> there is, however, a wget-udeb
[06:22] <infinity> fabbione : "the usual moon ray hitting the console cable during a solar ecplipse"?.. If that's a usual source of bugs for you, you may have issues. :)
[06:23] <fabbione> infinity: do you have any better explanation other than Aliens have invaded our DataCenter?
[06:25] <lamont> daniels: and an ssh-client-udeb
[06:26] <infinity> fabbione : Well, I initially called it "cosmic rays", so I'm with you, I'm just hoping it's not "usual".
[06:27] <fabbione> infinity: usual was highly ironic :-)
[06:34] <fabbione> infinity: i think we can downgrade 7846
[06:34] <infinity> fabbione : Or close it.  It's either a real bug or not.  There's not much in between.
[06:35] <infinity> fabbione : I'm leaning toward "not a real bug", given that no one, including lamont, can reproduce it.
[06:36] <infinity> fabbione : Or I can dowgrade it and reassign it to lamont, since he really, really wanted to reproduce it.  He may be over that by now, though.
[06:36] <infinity> lamont : ?
[06:36] <infinity> Oh, sleeping.  Bah.
[06:36] <fabbione> infinity: i vote for closing
[06:38] <infinity> Yeah, me too.  lamont can ressurect it, ie still feels the urge to run 50 test builds in a row...
[06:38] <infinity> s/ie/if he/
[06:38] <fabbione> yeah
[06:38] <infinity> PS: Ubuntu bugzilla + dialup = teh suck.
[06:38] <fabbione> KILL IT KILL THEM ALL!
[06:39] <fabbione> i can close it for you, if you want :-)
[06:39] <infinity> Nah, I closed it.
[06:40] <infinity> Though, I closed it with "fixed" instead of "notabug", cause I weas so excited about the page loading that I wasn't pttention.
[06:40] <infinity> paying attention, even.  Wow.  Typing.
[06:40] <fabbione> ok.. we are down to 7 RC bugs
[06:41] <infinity> That just means I should file a few more.
[06:41] <fabbione> actually 6.. one is a security for warty
[06:42] <infinity> I assume you're just looking at critical bugs?
[06:43] <mdz> daniels: powerpc didn't ask me any X questions on install, and it should have
[06:43] <daniels> mdz: define 'should have'
[06:43] <daniels> amd64 live and reconfigure asked me about the resolution
[06:44] <mdz> daniels: hoary-install-powerpc.iso
[06:44] <daniels> yes
[06:44] <fabbione> infinity: yes, only critical or higher
[06:44] <mdz> daniels: "should have" as in "always has, and it's correct to, because there's no way it could possibly know"
[06:44] <daniels> but when you say 'should have'
[06:44] <daniels> failing ddc probe?
[06:44] <mdz> yes
[06:44] <mdz> it just dropped me into 1024x768 with no question
[06:45] <daniels> if you run sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg, does it ask you?
[06:45] <mdz> yes
[06:45] <mdz> (as it did on the live CD, which does the same thing)
[06:47] <daniels> ok
[06:47] <daniels> you win the grand prize of getting to repack the powerpc install cd
[06:47] <daniels> either that, or punting a custom build
[06:49] <daniels> right, I think I see it
[06:51] <fabbione> daniels: stop smoking crack.. you can't see it :P
[06:52] <daniels> mdz: davis:~daniels/xorg/repack/xserver-xorg_6.8.2-6_powerpc.deb
[06:52] <mdz> I don't have an account on davis
[06:52] <mdz> hmm, apparently I do, only nobody told me
[06:53] <fabbione> mdz: everybody does..
[06:53] <fabbione> mdz: it's a porting box
[06:53] <mdz> daniels: didn't you tell me that failed ddc was one of your test cases?
[06:53] <daniels> mdz: yes, but I didn't try a fresh install
[06:54] <mdz> ...
[06:58] <daniels> mdz: it's a one-line fix, if you repack the cd with the new deb it should be fine
[06:59] <mdz> daniels: I don't know the mkisofs arguments to rebuild powerpc
[07:00] <mdz> first hour of testing, only three show-stopper bugs found
[07:00] <mdz> looking pretty good
[07:02] <mdz> apparently, remastering powerpc requires a copy of some file out of debian-cd
[07:02] <mdz> hfs.map
[07:03] <daniels> mdz: would you like me to kick a custom build for you?
[07:03] <mdz> might as well, I'll re-test tomorrow
[07:05] <daniels> huh
[07:05] <daniels> well, I can't SSH into little anyway
[07:05] <daniels> so it's up to you to kick the build
[07:05] <mdz> doesn't matter
[07:05] <daniels> daniels@catsby:~% ssh little.warthogs.hbd.com
[07:05] <daniels> Password:
[07:05] <mdz> I'm done for tonight
[07:05] <fabbione> mdz: good night
[07:05] <fabbione> mdz: anything specific you want me to look into while you are asleep?
[07:06] <mdz> fabbione: working X, working archive-copier and working apt-setup-udeb
[07:06] <mdz> those are all show-stoppers
[07:06] <daniels> mdz: well, whenever you get up, put that deb in /srv/cdimage.nny.c/local/packages, and run DEBUG=1 ARCHES=powerpc LOCAL=1 LOCALDEBS=/srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/local/packages cron.daily
[07:07] <mdz> Kamion will be up many hours before I will
[07:07] <daniels> and you'll get an image under /srv/cdimage.nny.c/scratch/cdimage/
[07:07] <fabbione> mdz: ok.
[07:07] <mdz> daniels: it seems unlikely to me that this should be architecture-specific. is it?
[07:07] <daniels> mdz: no, it is not
[07:08] <mdz> daniels: then you can test locally
[07:08] <mdz> wihch will be much faster and not depend on anyone
[07:08] <daniels> yes, with hoary-install-amd64.iso currently sitting at 43% on the rsync
[07:08] <mdz> when was the last time you rsynced it?
[07:09] <daniels> looks like i jigdo'ed it last time
[07:09] <mdz> when was that?
[07:09] <daniels> i have an rsynced *i386* iso, but fat lot of good that's done me
[07:09] <daniels> eleven days ago
[07:09] <mdz> that should work fine
[07:09] <mdz> turn off your monitor
[07:10] <daniels> yeah, I'm sure I'll find some way to work it out
[07:10] <daniels> goodnight
[07:11] <fabbione> YAY! linux-image-2.6.10-5-386-xen0_2.6.10-32_i386.deb
[07:11] <crimsun> very nic
[07:11] <crimsun> e
[07:12] <fabbione> there is still clean up that needs to be done
[07:12] <fabbione> :(
[07:48] <Mithrandir> hi fabio
[07:49] <fabbione> hey Tollef
[08:03] <jbailey> Anyone know of a 'diffdiff' program that will show the differences between two diffs, but take into account that the files might appear in the diff in different orders?
[08:04] <pitti> Morning
[08:04] <pitti> jbailey: interdiff
[08:04] <pitti> mdz: okay to upload netkit-telnet into hoary? (security update)
[08:04] <pitti> i. e. how cold is the freeze ATM? :-)
[08:05] <jbailey> pitti: Thanks.
[08:05] <pitti> jbailey: (in patchutils)
[08:05] <jbailey> pitti: <jbailey> mdz: Cool.  Are we in a no-upload zone now, then?  <mdz> jbailey: we're in a be-careful-dammit zone :-)
[08:06] <fabbione> jbailey: interdiff?
[08:11] <infinity> pitti : Speaking of security, got any more for me?
[08:11] <jbailey> Mmm.  patchutils seems like one of those things I would've traded critical body parts of in the past.  *sigh*
[08:11] <jbailey> s/of/for/
[08:11] <daniels> editdiff is rather neat
[08:11] <Mithrandir> jbailey: you haven't heard of patchutils before?
[08:11] <infinity> You've never used it before?
[08:11] <Mithrandir> daniels: emacs does it natively.
[08:12] <infinity> lsdiff and filterdiff, in particular, are my friends.
[08:12] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Erm, I've done all my patch editting by hand in vi.
[08:12] <jbailey> I've gotten quite good at it.
[08:12] <daniels> Mithrandir: yeah, often I prefer not to use editdiff
[08:12] <Mithrandir> jbailey: you masochist.
[08:12] <Mithrandir> :)
[08:12] <infinity> I still do a lot by hand, but sometimes automation is nice.
[08:12] <daniels> only when I'm actually adding lines to 30-hunk diffs
[08:12] <fabbione> jbailey: ehhehe that reminds me so much of all the forwardport of all the xfree86 patches to xorg :)
[08:12] <daniels> usually I'm fiddling patches to apply cleanly :)
[08:13] <infinity> I fix offsets by hand, and kill individual hunks by hand, s'about it these days.
[08:14] <infinity> Oh, that too.
[08:14] <Mithrandir> infinity: M-K kill a whole file in emacs' diff mode.  Quite useful when you don't care to forward-search and such.
[08:14] <daniels> d/^---
[08:16] <infinity> Mithrandir : filterdiff does the same thing.
[08:16] <infinity> But with filterdiff, I can do shell globbing.
[08:16] <infinity> To, say, remove all instances of libtool.m4 from a diff, etc.
[08:23] <fabbione> DIE
[08:23] <fabbione> i won't be able to burn images for a while
[08:23] <jbailey> fabbione: And I'll tell Angie that it's your fault.
[08:23] <fabbione> my local mirror just lost a disk
[08:23] <fabbione> jbailey: ehhe
[08:23] <daniels> agh
[08:23] <jbailey> Oh ouch.
[08:24] <fabbione>       [>....................]   recovery =  0.3% (466488/117220672) finish=505.4min speed=3847K/sec
[08:24] <fabbione> it will take the usual 2938298932832 hours to rebuild
[08:24] <infinity> Sure, but it's transparent.
[08:25] <fabbione> infinity: it is not performance transparent, when i have to burn the iso's from that raid via nfs
[08:25] <infinity> Picky, picky.
[08:25] <infinity> You get to complain about your slow RAID rebuilding when you replace my craptop with something built in the current century.
[08:26] <fabbione> infinity: my laptop is from the previous century too.. so shut up 
[08:26] <fabbione> :P
[08:27] <HrdwrBoB> my laptop and raid are both fro the previous century
[08:27] <jbailey> lamont: Ping?
[08:27] <fabbione> this raid is at least 4 years old....
[08:28] <fabbione> jbailey: lamont crashed a couple of hours ago
[08:28] <jbailey> Ah bugger.  I had missed his going away message.
[08:29] <jbailey> Oh well, he said it was okay if he wasn't awake.
[08:30] <daniels> fabbione: your laptop is way, way, way, way, way, way better than infinity's
[08:30] <fabbione> daniels: ehhee
[08:30] <fabbione> jbailey: if you plan to upload udev, you have to wait for lamont
[08:31] <fabbione> i am not sure he did put udev on hold inside the buildd chroots
[08:31] <fabbione> if he didn't the buildd's will go banana
[08:31] <jbailey> Ah shit.
[08:31] <jbailey> I hit go already.
[08:31] <fabbione> oh well
[08:31] <fabbione> let's cross the fingers :)
[08:31] <jbailey> His line after telling him said that it was okay as long as nothing dep'd on the new version.
[08:31] <jbailey> There's no reason for anything to do so.
[08:31] <fabbione> than it should be fine
[08:39] <Mithrandir> any ppc people with a hfs filesystem around?
[08:40] <Mithrandir> I have a patch 7936, but would like to test it on a powerpc system, not just AMD64
[08:41] <jbailey> Mithrandir: I don't have an hfs partition, but I imagine that I can probably create on on a loopback.
[08:42] <Mithrandir> I guess just being on powerpc should be enough
[08:43] <jbailey> Mithrandir: What do you need?  I need to go pass out soon.
[08:44] <infinity> daniels : Do you have a (resonably) current hoary i386 install CD?
[08:44] <infinity> daniels : And have you sorted out your burning issues? :)
[08:44] <daniels> infinity: 'reasonably', and yes
[08:45] <Mithrandir> two seconds, I just need to clean the patch of auto cruft
[08:45] <infinity> daniels : warty blows up pretty spectacularly on my craptop, so I still haven't done much with that hard drive.
[08:45] <daniels> infinity: i mean, i just burnt my last, so i need to head up to safeway and get a new lot
[08:45] <daniels> ah
[08:47] <Mithrandir> jbailey: http://err.no/patches/hfsutils-no-extern-int-errno.diff ; could you apply that and check whether hfsutils still works?
[08:49] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Erm, extern int errno was causing the linker to segfault?
[08:49] <jbailey> That's nasty.
[08:49] <infinity> daniels : The more current, the merrier, I guess.  If my laptop is finding obscure bugs, I may as well file/fix them while I'm at it.
[08:50] <Mithrandir> jbailey: yes.
[08:50] <Mithrandir> jbailey: there's a patch for it, but I was told of it a bit too late in the release cycle, so didn't push it in.
[08:53] <jbailey> Mithrandir: I didn't try it without the patch, but with the patch, it builds fine.
[08:53] <Mithrandir> jbailey: I'm just as much interested in whether it still seems to work. :)
[08:56] <jbailey> Mithrandir: I have an hfs partition on a loopback now.  Do you know these tools at all?  It would help if you can tell me what to test.
[08:57] <infinity> Yeargh.  doko, doko, doko...
[08:57] <Mithrandir> jbailey: no, no idea, really.
[08:57] <jbailey> =)
[08:57] <Mithrandir> jbailey: but I'm afraid Kamion will torture and kill me if I break some powerpc stuff because hfsutils was to build on amd64. :)
[08:59] <jbailey> Mithrandir: hmount and hls appear to work.
[08:59] <infinity> daniels : Maybe we could hook up for abite to eat and CD handover? :)
[09:00] <jbailey> Mithrandir: As does hmkdir, hcd, and hpwd
[09:00] <jbailey> Mithrandir: My guess is you're good to go.
[09:00] <daniels> infinity: today?  tomorrow?
[09:01] <infinity> daniels : Whichever.  I do need to eat sometime today, so today would be cool.
[09:01] <daniels> infinity: i assume you're on zone 1-only, so I'd need to make my way into Monash
[09:01] <infinity> daniels : 1-only, yeah.  We could eat in town.  (I'm at home right now... No MOnash til tomorrow)
[09:02] <Mithrandir> jbailey: ok, thanks.
[09:02] <daniels> infinity: oh
[09:02] <infinity> daniels : Also, Zofia kept asking all weekend when we'd hang out again.  I think she likes you.
[09:02] <fabbione> night jbailey 
[09:02] <daniels> infinity: heh :) can't blame her
[09:02] <infinity> daniels : She's easily led astray.
[09:02] <daniels> infinity: i need to see xorg 6.8.2-7 through or i'll be flayed to death, so is later good for you?
[09:03] <infinity> Later's cool.  Work is more important, obviously.  I'm just doing some low-bandwidth, text-editor-only package hacking today, waiting on tomorrow for other stuff.
[09:03] <daniels> cool
[09:03] <daniels> say about 8:15ish in city?
[09:03] <daniels> actually, shit
[09:04] <infinity> Not so sure about the shit.
[09:04] <daniels> hm, yeah, 8:15ish is doable
[09:06] <infinity> Yup, we can do 8:15.
[09:06] <infinity> Clocks?
[09:06] <daniels> rad
[09:06] <daniels> if you're up for ~$16/main, there's a sensational japanese place right near it
[09:07] <infinity> Zofia'll be cool with that.
[09:07] <fabbione> "You can have all the faith in your hardware that you want, but Murphy has enable/root." <- lol
[09:07] <daniels> infinity: phat
[09:18] <dholbach> gooood morning
[09:26] <infinity> daniels : Kay, I'm hanging up the modem.  We'll see you there.
[09:27] <daniels> infinity: rad.  take care.
[09:33] <Mitario> hello everyone
[09:33] <ogra> morning dholbach 
[09:47] <ogra> mdz, ping
[09:48] <pitti> Kamion: here?
[09:49] <ogra> hi pitti 
[09:49] <pitti> Hi ogra 
[09:49] <ogra> Kamion, was up until 4:30 i think....might sleep
[09:49] <pitti> oops
[09:49] <pitti> ok
[09:49] <ogra> err 3:30 UTC
[10:05] <thom> mdz: almost certainly yes (LIDSTATE being clobbered)
[10:05] <thom> mdz: and, auto torrent is happening this am
[10:07] <fabbione> hey thombot
[10:08] <daniels> morning thomarse
[10:08] <thom> morning, y'all
[10:08] <thom> lamont: apache2 is all infinity's fault
[10:08] <ogra> hey thom 
[10:17] <pitti> Hi sivang 
[10:17] <sivang> hey pitti 
[10:20] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[10:21] <seb128> hey hey pitti :)
[10:21] <dholbach> hey seb128 
[10:21] <seb128> hi
[10:21] <dholbach> seb128: just an hour after you left, i wanted to ask you something, but now i forgot
[10:22] <seb128> erf
[10:23] <seb128> mdz, Kamion: around ?
[10:24] <dholbach> seb128: ah yes... what about gnome-vfs-extras? is it needed or in any way useful?
[10:24] <seb128> no, that's deprecated
[10:24] <seb128> merged in gnome-vfs2
[10:24] <dholbach> seb128: kamion left at 4:30 (our time)
[10:25] <dholbach> seb128: can we chuck it out? because it doesnt build anymore?
[10:25] <seb128> $ apt-cache show libgnomevfs2-common | grep Conflicts
[10:25] <seb128> Conflicts: gnome-vfs-extras2, gnome-vfs-sftp, nautilus (<< 2.7.2), libgnome2-0 (<< 2.8.0-5), gnome-panel (<< 2.9.2)
[10:25] <seb128> you speak about the GNOME 1 version ?
[10:26] <seb128> $ apt-cache rdepends gnome-vfs-extras
[10:26] <seb128> gnome-vfs-extras
[10:26] <seb128> Reverse Depends:
[10:26] <seb128> 
[10:26] <thom> seb128: the gtk theme fixes in firefox yesterday are overridden in ephy already, btw
[10:26] <seb128> just drop it
[10:26] <dholbach> i speak about http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/g/gnome-vfs-extras/
[10:26] <dholbach> ok
[10:26] <dholbach> seb128: thanks
[10:27] <seb128> thom: yeah my epiphany works fine again, thanks
[10:27] <seb128> dholbach: np
[10:43] <GheRivero> good morning!
[10:55] <seb128> dholbach: 
[10:55] <seb128> xpat2 (1.07-8ubuntu1) hoary; urgency=low
[10:55] <seb128>  .
[10:55] <seb128>    *
[10:55] <seb128> nice changelog :p
[10:55] <ogra> heh
[10:56] <Jeeves_> Morning
[10:56] <dholbach> ARG
[10:56] <dholbach> *CRY*
[10:56] <dholbach> i leave now... go to bed... to the bar anywhere *HOLLER*
[10:57] <seb128> :)
[10:57] <pitti> ouch
[10:57] <pitti> ?
[10:57] <seb128> so you no -fr on ia64 ?
[10:57] <seb128> :)
[10:57] <seb128> s/you//
[10:58] <pitti> seb128: no -de either
[10:58] <ogra> dholbach, nooo, you need to stay and keep me awake with funny changelogs ;) 
[10:58] <pitti> seb128: within the last few days, some hog was placed onto the CD obviously
[10:58] <seb128> pitti: that's not an excuse for no -fr :p
[10:59] <pitti> seb128: I'd be glad to add those langpacks again :-)
[10:59] <seb128> BTW just kidding, but that's weird, I don't know half of the locales in your list :)
[11:00] <dholbach> ogra: i seemed to have cared more about a building package than a nice changelog
[11:00] <ogra> heh
[11:01] <seb128> pitti: BTW when have you planned to update the language-packs ?
[11:01] <pitti> seb128: around noon, but I need to check with Kamion
[11:01] <seb128> k
[11:01] <seb128> so I'll update the desktops components today
[11:01] <pitti> uh, for RC?
[11:01] <seb128> do I need to get an approval from somebody to upload today ?
[11:01] <pitti> yes
[11:02] <seb128> grrr
[11:02] <pitti> Kamion or mdz
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: see mdz's mail
[11:02] <seb128> I know
[11:02] <daniels> pitti: or jdub
[11:02] <seb128> but I've pinged 1 hour ago
[11:02] <seb128> and neither of them care to pong
[11:02] <seb128> I'll just go ahead :)
[11:03] <seb128> pitti: why not for RC ? :) There are just translations updates
[11:03] <pitti> oh, then it's probably okay :-)
[11:03] <seb128> I want to include the strings from the bugzilla bug
[11:03] <pitti> ah, that'd rock 
[11:03] <seb128> BTW have you contacted DV
[11:04] <seb128> this gamin bug really sucks and it's not likely to be automagically fixed upstream for hoary
[11:04] <pitti> no, not yet
[11:04] <pitti> family kept me busy over the holidays...
[11:04] <dholbach> yeah... someone contact DV to sign herve's key *grmbl*
[11:04] <pitti> and telnet...
[11:04] <ogra> hey, why do you guys upload all the time...?
[11:04] <Mithrandir> ogra: to saturate your network connection.
[11:04] <dholbach> hehe Mithrandir: exactly
[11:04] <seb128> pitti: np, if you can do that this week would be nice :)
[11:04] <Mithrandir> ogra: specially for you, my friend.
[11:05] <Mithrandir> also, the buildds need to exercise.
[11:05] <seb128> pitti: I don't get the bug easily here
[11:05] <pitti> seb128: sure, this whole stuff really sucks ATM
[11:05] <ogra> Mithrandir, i have had another nice hacking night and am only awake to get approval :)
[11:05] <dholbach> seb128, ogra: i hope next changelog is better
[11:05] <seb128> ie: I've it sometime, but if I start all in debug mode I can wait hours without getting it again
[11:05] <ogra> dholbach, yeah, be creative ;)
[11:05] <Mithrandir> ogra: crazy person.
[11:05] <ogra> hehe
[11:05] <dholbach> ogra: mail him your phone number and go to bed :-)
[11:05] <seb128> dholbach: bah, don't worry, that's just weird to have an empty one :p
[11:06] <ogra> dholbach, nah, i wanna have the fun to see the build failing short before RC ;)
[11:06] <dholbach> hahahaha
[11:06] <dholbach> seb128: i don't even know how i managed it, to have it empty... even after just 4 hours of sleep
[11:07] <seb128> bah, 4 hours is a normal night, isn't it ? :)
[11:07] <ogra> heh
[11:07] <dholbach> yeah
[11:12] <Jeeves_> Anyone with a rsync server that I can Rsync?
[11:12] <Jeeves_> archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu is @max connections
[11:15] <fabbione> Jeeves_: there is a list of mirrors on the wiki
[11:16] <Jeeves_> fabbione: I can just use any of them.
[11:16] <Jeeves_> Oki :)
[11:31] <daniels> ross: dude!
[11:31] <ross> daniels: hey!
[11:31] <daniels> ross: how was your trip?
[11:32] <ross> ROCKING
[11:32] <seb128> hey hey ross
[11:32] <daniels> rad :)
[11:32] <ross> hi seb128 
[11:34] <thom> ross!
[11:34] <ross> thom!
[11:35] <thom> you had fun, then?
[11:35] <ross> oh yes
[11:35] <thom> lots of photos?
[11:35] <ross> 650
[11:35] <thom> blimey
[11:36] <ross> don't you read my blog?
[11:36] <thom> not today, i haven't
[11:36] <ross> see http://www.burtonini.com/blog/life/india-2005-03-24-17-41
[11:37] <ross> and i'll write more at some point...
[11:40] <dholbach> does someone know whats up with elmo?
[11:40] <dholbach> is he in holidays?
[11:50] <daniels> When booting the Live CD (20050329) and selecting the settings shown above
[11:50] <daniels> somehow X defaults to a Dutch keyboard layout (no one has a Dutch keyboard in
[11:50] <daniels> The Netherlands...) so US is the correct layout setting. Works in console, but X
[11:50] <daniels> defaults to NL keyboard layout.
[11:52] <Jeeves_> What does a NL-keyboard even looks like?
[11:53] <Treenaks> Jeeves_: get an IBM PC, you can get NL keyboards with those
[11:53] <Treenaks> but you're right, no sane person uses NL keyboards :)
[12:04] <seb128> jdub: around ?
[12:04] <ogra> seb128, bored ?
[12:04] <seb128> why ?
[12:05] <ogra> because you cant upload ?
[12:05] <seb128> I can
[12:05] <ogra> yes, but you shouldnt
[12:05] <seb128> I'm updating the translations for the differents desktop packages :p
[12:05] <ogra> ah
[12:05] <seb128> translations updates should be fine
[12:05] <seb128> and Kamion is not around
[12:05] <ogra> nope
[12:05] <seb128> and mdz probably sleeping
[12:06] <ogra> looks like
[12:09] <ogra> yeah, Kamion
[12:09] <Kamion> seb128: you were looking for me?
[12:09] <seb128> yep
[12:09] <ogra> me too
[12:09] <seb128> I guess that's ok to upload some desktop stuff for translations update ?
[12:10] <seb128> ie: just an update of debian/patches/translations
[12:10] <Kamion> not sure; I guess so
[12:11] <seb128> that, and the patch from http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gtk-doc/news/2.html 
[12:11] <ogra> Kamion, and i'd like to upload a nearly done hwdb-client (with working submission and running (interim) server), mailed mdz already, but i'll fall asleep the next few minutes
[12:12] <Mithrandir> ogra: catch some sleep, mdz shouldn't be around for a few more hours, I'd imagine.
[12:12] <Kamion> client/server stuff is high-priority, as mdz said
[12:12] <Kamion> we need testing of that#
[12:12] <ogra> so i'm allowed ? i fear i'll sleep to long...
[12:13] <Kamion> anything we need to be aware of, that might need to be fixed urgently?
[12:13] <ogra> not on my side...
[12:13] <Kamion> ok, go ahead then
[12:13] <ogra> yeah, great, thanks :)
[12:14] <pitti_live> Hi folks
[12:14] <thom> hey Kamion 
[12:15] <seb128> Kamion: and about http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gtk-doc/news/2.html ? :)
[12:15] <Kamion> seb128: gtk-doc> so are we having problems at the moment with the wrong jade being used?
[12:15] <Kamion> thom: morning
[12:15] <pitti_live> hey Kamion
[12:15] <Kamion> pitti_live: morning
[12:15] <seb128> Kamion: not than I'm aware of, but we have issues with ":" (MOTU guys have some FTBFS due to it)
[12:16] <seb128> do you want to grab both changes from Debian ?
[12:16] <dholbach> Kamion: the problem can be seen here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/g/gmime2/2.0.14-2/gmime2_2.0.14-2_20050321-1131-amd64-failed
[12:16] <dholbach> Kamion: jani worked around it in a fluxbox package or something as well
[12:16] <Kamion> 'issues with ":"'?
[12:17] <Kamion> oh, I see
[12:17] <seb128> rahh
[12:17] <Kamion> seb128: ok, go ahead
[12:17] <seb128> the debian page has shifted with today's upload
[12:17] <seb128> http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gtk-doc/news/3.html
[12:17] <seb128> I was pointing this entry in fact
[12:17] <Kamion> haha, ok
[12:18] <seb128> both changes or just this patch ?
[12:18] <seb128> I'm fine with the patch only
[12:18] <dholbach> thanks
[12:18] <Kamion> seb128: just that patch; I did wonder why the other one was necessary
[12:18] <seb128> k
[12:18] <Kamion> but all the miscellaneous jades confuse me
[12:19] <seb128> I don't really know about that, but since we have not breakage atm I prefer to not touch it
[12:20] <Kamion> seb128: right, definitely
[12:20] <Kamion> seb128: BTW, when you said "some desktop stuff", how much?
[12:20] <seb128> 5-6 packages
[12:20] <Kamion> sounds ok
[12:20] <seb128> just to update the translations with strings from #7370
[12:22] <Kamion> seb128: actually, surely those are handled by language packs?
[12:22] <Kamion> oh, but you need to upload in order for them to get into the langpacks, ok
[12:23] <seb128> that and .desktop files are not handled by language-packs
[12:23] <Kamion> ah
[12:29] <pitti> Kamion: what's the deadline for uploading update langpacks?
[12:30] <seb128> not before my desktop translations updates :p
[12:31] <Kamion> pitti: I imagine we'll build candidate CDs this evening with the aim of publishing tomorrow
[12:31] <Kamion> so sometime this afternoon
[12:32] <Kamion> (understand that that's a deadline I invented just now, but it seems reasonable ...)
[12:33] <pitti> yeah
[12:33] <pitti> seb128: can you please ping me if you uploaded everything?
[12:34] <seb128> k
[12:37] <dholbach> see you later
[12:43] <zyga> why does openoffice depend on ia32-libs?
[12:43] <Kamion> zyga: that's amd64-specific. OOo doesn't work in 64-bit mode, so we ship 32-bit OOo.
[12:44] <zyga> Kamion: OO is broken in 64bit mode?
[12:44] <Kamion> zyga: yes
[12:44] <zyga> Kamion: is that fixable or is this permanent?
[12:45] <zyga> s/that/this/
[12:45] <Kamion> zyga: it's being worked on upstream, but it's a LOT of work.
[12:46] <zyga> Kamion: eh, too bad, thanks :/
[12:52] <zyga> Unpacking ia32-libs (from .../ia32-libs_0.5ubuntu3_amd64.deb) ...
[12:52] <zyga> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ia32-libs_0.5ubuntu3_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[12:52] <zyga>  error creating symbolic link `./usr/lib32/libGL.so.1': No such file or directory
[12:52] <zyga> Errors were encountered while processing:
[12:52] <zyga>  /var/cache/apt/archives/ia32-libs_0.5ubuntu3_amd64.deb
[12:52] <zyga> root@amd64:/home/zyga # dpkg-query -S /usr/lib32/libGL.so.1
[12:52] <zyga> diversion by xorg-driver-fglrx from: /usr/lib32/libGL.so.1
[12:52] <zyga> diversion by xorg-driver-fglrx to: /usr/lib32/fglrx/libGL.so.1.xlibmesa
[12:52] <zyga> xorg-driver-fglrx: /usr/lib32/libGL.so.1
[12:53] <zyga> does this mean that ati binary drivers are causing this?
[12:54] <Kamion> not sure, ask Mithrandir/daniels
[12:54] <thom> argh, colin walters posting on u-devel. namespace collison, brain damage
[12:54] <zyga> Mithrandir: ping
[12:55] <Mithrandir> pong
[12:55] <pitti> Mithrandir: any chance of packaging thunderbird 1.0.2 for hoary?
[12:55] <pitti> Mithrandir: otherwise, can you backport the security fix?
[12:56] <Mithrandir> I can package it, no problem.
[12:56] <Mithrandir> I'd need approval, though
[12:56] <pitti> yeah, sure
[12:56] <zyga> Mithrandir: can you give some insight on what is going on with xorg-driver-fglrx and /usr/lib32/libGL.so.1
[12:56] <pitti> Mithrandir: I think the best time would be immediately after RC release (if it's approved)
[12:57] <Mithrandir> pitti: ack
[12:57] <Mithrandir> zyga: probably a missing divert in ia32-libs.
[12:58] <zyga> Mithrandir: shoud I file a bug?
[12:59] <Mithrandir> zyga: I think it's filed already
[01:00] <zyga> It's a clash between xorg-driver-fglrx and ia32-libs
[01:01] <Mithrandir> 7542
[01:02] <zyga> Mithrandir: that's it - nothing new for me to add, thanks
[01:02] <Mithrandir> I was thinking about fixing ia32-libs for Debian today anyhow, so.
[01:05] <Seveas> ogra, ping?
[01:05] <dholbach> Seveas: i hope he's sleeping
[01:05] <Seveas> :)
[01:06] <dholbach> Seveas: he had another 28h hacking session
[01:06] <Seveas> i just wanted to say that the hwdb client works (except for sending)
[01:06] <Seveas> oof
[01:06] <dholbach> cool
[01:06] <dholbach> i'll tell him (once he wakes up ;-))
[01:06] <dholbach> he'll be delighted to hear
[01:07] <dholbach> hi elmo, could it be that some builds are "hanging"?
[01:09] <tseng> hi dholbach 
[01:09] <dholbach> hey tseng, hey mvo
[01:10] <mvo> hey dholbach 
[01:10] <zyga> mvo: hey
[01:11] <mvo> hey zyga 
[01:11] <mvo> zyga: I send you some mail, did they reached you yet?
[01:11] <zyga> mvo: would you accept a patch that extracts changelogs from .debs and shows them to the user for update-manager?
[01:11] <zyga> mvo: checking
[01:11] <mvo> zyga: have you seen the bugreport about it ?
[01:11] <zyga> mvo: yes - and - yes
[01:12] <zyga> mvo: I agree about string freeze
[01:12] <mvo> zyga: there is apt-listchanges already that does that, if update-manager gets this feature, we should use that code I reckon
[01:12] <mvo> zyga: thanks (about the string freeze)
[01:13] <zyga> mvo: that would make update-manager recommend apt-listchanges
[01:13] <zyga> mvo: the code that can manualy extract the changelogs is pretty small, are you sure we need another package to do that?
[01:13] <mvo> zyga: we would have to work that bits out. what's the best stragy. just copying is probably a option
[01:14] <zyga> copying? the code?
[01:15] <zyga> mvo: I was also thinking about showing update urgency 
[01:16] <mvo> zyga: yes, the extracting code (if it is small and easy)
[01:16] <trukulo> i prefer to show apt-listbugs instead of apt-listchanges (my opinion)
[01:16] <zyga> mvo: sort by urgency and add some background color for easier information 
[01:16] <mvo> zyga: the urgency is a nice feature, but it's not really needed for ubuntu. our policy is that we only have security or critical upgrades, so each update has about the same urgency 
[01:17] <zyga> mvo: too bad :/
[01:17] <mvo> trukulo: apt-listbugs is nice, but it's written in ruby IIRC
[01:17] <trukulo> mvo: oh, i didn't know, ok
[01:17] <trukulo> think it was on python
[01:17] <mvo> zyga: it's a nice feature to track unstable though, we may think about it
[01:18] <zyga> mvo: how would we do that? 
[01:18] <mvo> trukulo: yes ... does the version in ubuntu interface with the ubuntu bugzilla? I haven't used it at all in ubuntu yet :) 
[01:18] <trukulo> mvo: don't know, i only use apt-listbugs in sid
[01:18] <trukulo> or sarge, never with ubuntu
[01:19] <mvo> zyga: using urgency for tracking the ubuntu/unstable release?
[01:19] <mvo> trukulo: ok
[01:23] <zyga> mvo: how about opening a branch for breezy?
[01:25] <Mithrandir> zyga: when hoary is out.
[01:25] <mvo> zyga: it's only a week :)
[01:26] <trukulo> mvo: only a week for breezy to be released?
[01:26] <dholbach> trukulo: wiki/HoaryReleaseSchedule
[01:26] <pitti> Hi zyga, how's it going
[01:26] <trukulo> thaks dh
[01:27] <dholbach> trukulo: no problem, tr ;-p
[01:28] <zyga> mvo: how about urgency on upcoming realeases?
[01:28] <zyga> mvo: like hoary is now being updated all the time
[01:29] <doko> jdub: please could you have a look at #7538? doesn't seem to be OO.o specific.
[01:30] <mvo> zyga: for breezy, we can talk about new features again :)
[01:30] <zyga> mvo: this is all for breezy 
[01:30] <dholbach> to be honest, i liked sneezy better... ;-)
[01:30] <zyga> hehe
[01:31] <zyga> dholbach: just don't fork us yet ;] 
[01:31] <dholbach> zyga: don't worry
[01:34] <thom> Kamion: just to check, the "torrent" tree on little will get releases and arrays/whatever when they're added, right?
[01:34] <Mithrandir> mjg59: is nstx known broken on amd64?
[01:34] <Kamion> thom: yeah
[01:35] <Kamion> WHOA
[01:35] <Kamion> so, this archive-copier bug that mdz mentioned
[01:35] <Kamion> I can reproduce it
[01:35] <thom> Kamion: cool, thanks
[01:35] <Kamion> and it turns out that it manifests precisely when the sum of the sizes of all Packages files on the CD is an exact multiple of 4096
[01:35] <Kamion> THAT WOULD EXPLAIN WHY I NEVER NOTICED IT BEFORE
[01:35] <thom> that's a great bug, congrats
[01:45] <doko> zyga: talking about PHP4?
[01:45] <zyga> doko: I don't use php much so I don't know but I was talking about python
[01:46] <zyga> standard c library suxx but at least I's stable :P
[01:48] <dholbach> seb128: thank you!
[01:48] <seb128> np
[01:52] <abelli> hello everybody
[01:52] <pitti> Hi abelli 
[01:53] <faux_> any chance of getting mono 1.0.6 into hoary final?
[01:54] <zyga> mvo: ping
[01:54] <abelli> is mark around?
[01:57] <Mithrandir> doko: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux/3.4.4/32/libgcc_s.so points to /usr/lib32/libgcc_s.so.1, which doesn't exist.
[01:58] <mvo> zyga: pong
[01:59] <abelli> sabdfl: ping
[02:03] <HiddenWolf> Is the amd64 install daily safe?
[02:04] <thom> faux_: about as much chance as microsoft releasing XP under the gpl, i'd suggest
[02:05] <Seveas> hmm
[02:05] <Seveas> tough odds...
[02:05] <abelli> thom: never say banzai. :)
[02:05] <ross> anyone got a url listing the positions in virtual memory linux puts what types of object? i.e. heap, stack, libs...
[02:06] <Treenaks> ross: does linux put it there, or ld?
[02:07] <Seveas> ld does
[02:07] <Treenaks> Seveas: oh yeah you're the expert :P
[02:07] <Seveas> :)
[02:07] <Seveas> i'm searching for my papers, i have a nice figure
[02:08] <ross> thanks
[02:08] <Seveas> hmm, ok, you need the text with it
[02:09] <Seveas> can i send you a document (pdf) by e-mail?
[02:09] <ross> Seveas: pdf is fine, ross@burtonini.com
[02:09] <mvo> Seveas: can you put it on a url somewhere? i would be interessted too :)
[02:09] <Seveas> ok
[02:09] <Seveas> look at staff.science.uva.nl/~dkaarsem/ckpt/ in five minutes
[02:09] <Seveas> have to regenerate the pdf and put it there
[02:11] <mvo> Seveas: thanks
[02:15] <Seveas> it's on there
[02:15] <Seveas> http://staff.science.uva.nl/~dkaarsem/ckpt/ckpt_draft.ps
[02:17] <Seveas> you just have to ignore the ckpt header and ckpt data, than you have the structure of a normal elf binary
[02:18] <mvo> Seveas: nice, thanks
[02:22] <pitti> Kamion: still okay to upload trivial fixes (g-v-m)?
[02:22] <Seveas> mvo, ross, i would appreciate it if the document doesn't get spread all over the internet
[02:22] <Seveas> it's an early draft :)
[02:23] <faux_> thom: hehe ok, thanks
[02:23] <ross> Seveas: ok
[02:23] <mvo> Seveas: sure
[02:25] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: no, broken
[02:25] <Kamion> pitti: what fix?
[02:26] <doko> mithrandir: hmm, I'll look at it.
[02:26] <pitti> Kamion: #7725
[02:26] <pitti> Kamion: just fixing a symlink target
[02:26] <pitti> Kamion: /usr/lib/g-v-m/g-v-m-gthumb.sh pointed to g-v-m, not to g-v-m-gthumb
[02:26] <HiddenWolf> Kamion: *sigh* What's the latest amd64 image I can use?
[02:27] <Treenaks> g3e-v4e-m5r :P
[02:29] <Mithrandir> silly stupid thing.  Stop stomping on my settings.
[02:29] <Kamion> pitti: yes
[02:29] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: I think yesterday's is OK, but I haven't checked because I'm too busy fixing it :)
[02:30] <Mithrandir> seb128: is it intended that gconf should stomp on user settings just because the files in gconf happens to be symlinks instead of files?
[02:30] <dholbach> bbl
[02:33] <seb128> Mithrandir: where do you have some symlinks ?
[02:34] <Mithrandir> seb128: /home/tfheen/.gconf/desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/%gconf.xml is a symlink to ~/dotfiles/gconf/.../%gconf.xml
[02:35] <Mithrandir> it seems like the xml backend unlinks the file instead of rewriting it
[02:36] <seb128> I guess that's not a documented usage :)
[02:36] <seb128> patches are probably welcome though
[02:36] <Mithrandir> it's a sane way to keep ~/.gconf in version control
[02:38] <seb128> bah, the mtime stuff make it changing all the time, isn't it ?
[02:39] <Mithrandir> if so, I'm going to whack that too
[02:39] <seb128> look on the file
[02:39] <Mithrandir> into not changing the mtime unless the node has changed.
[02:39] <seb128> there is a mtime
[02:39] <Mithrandir> I know.
[02:39] <Mithrandir> but gconfd can compare the old and new node and not change the mtime unless the node actually has changed.
[02:42] <Mithrandir> seb128: why doesn't changing /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/current (when gnome is not running) actually change the window manager?  It seems to be overridden back to metacity each time.
[02:45] <Keybuk> isn't that an unused key?
[02:45] <seb128> Mithrandir: do you have $WINDOW_MANAGER defined ?
[02:46] <Mithrandir> seb	no
[02:46] <seb128> in fact /usr/bin/gnome-wm determine the wm to use
[02:46] <seb128> and set the key
[02:46] <seb128> look on the different conditions
[02:47] <Mithrandir> ah, seems I have to set the default keey
[02:47] <Mithrandir> s/kee/ke/
[02:52] <seb128> IIRC it should use current for your user and fallback on default if current is not working
[02:52] <thom> kamion/mdz: autotorrent madness looks good :_)
[02:53] <Mithrandir> seb128: it doesn't, it uses default.
[02:53] <Mithrandir> seb128: at least, that worked for me, and it's according to the docs in gnome-wm
[02:53] <seb128> something is bogus, I don't get why there is 2 keys
[02:53] <Mithrandir> seb128: but contrary to the docs in the schema.
[02:53] <seb128> yeah
[02:54] <Mithrandir> I guess I'll have to fix the gconf backend too. :/
[02:57] <pitti> seb128: regarding the "Submit to Ubuntu database..." translation in hal-device-manager; the string is marked as translatable in glade, but it doesn't appear in the pot file
[02:57] <pitti> seb128: do you know how to extract these strings automatically?
[02:58] <seb128> bah, don't bother, use my method
[02:58] <seb128> gedit po/nn.po and copy the msgid msgstr here :p
[02:58] <pitti> okay :-)
[02:59] <seb128> gedit or whatever you want but be sure to be in UTF-8 :p
[02:59] <zul> hey
[03:02] <fabbione> elmo: ping?
[03:02] <Kamion> thom: great!
[03:02] <elmo> fabbione: ?
[03:03] <fabbione> elmo: sorry i just got a mail from katie i don't really understand: pcsc-lite_1.2.9-beta6-1_sparc.changes UNACCEPT
[03:04] <elmo> fabbione: don't worry, I'll take care of it
[03:04] <fabbione> elmo: ok, i won't :-)
[03:05] <fabbione> elmo: last question, did you have any time to move sparc.u.c? if not, would it be possible to get just one pulse?
[03:06] <pitti> seb128: darn, h-d-m is not even i18n'ed
[03:07] <elmo> fabbione: pulsing,  I really will try and fix today
[03:07] <seb128> pitti: not cool
[03:07] <Mitario> hi everyone
[03:07] <fabbione> elmo: thanks a lot, but don't rush. I am more than happy as it is now
[03:07] <pitti> seb128: that's too invasive, I don't do this now
[03:08] <Kamion> go apt, it's your birthday
[03:08] <pitti> seb128: I just updated the .desktop file
[03:08] <pitti> congrats, apt :-)
[03:08] <pitti> Kamion: how many years?
[03:08] <Kamion> pitti: not *really*
[03:08] <seb128> pitti: k, thanks
[03:08] <Kamion> pitti: you haven't heard the "go $FOO, it's your birthday" thing going round Canonical?
[03:08] <pitti> no, I didn't
[03:09] <pitti> Kamion: was it some special rule in a $NAMEOFOURLEADER game?
[03:09] <Kamion> pitti: no - it just carries extreme sarcasm and "$FOO is broken"
[03:09] <Kamion>         PACKAGE_COUNT=$(LC_ALL=C apt-cache stats | grep 'Normal Packages:' | awk '{ print $3 }')
[03:10] <Kamion> this is particularly helped by apt randomly changing to 'Normal packages:'
[03:10] <pitti> -i then? :-)
[03:10] <Kamion> yup
[03:11] <_mvo_> Kamion: where does this "go $foo ..." come from (originally)?
[03:11] <Kamion> _mvo_: dunno, it's an elmo-ism I think
[03:12] <thom> _mvo_: elmo, possibly via 50 Cent
[03:12] <RShadow> Can I ask a question
[03:12] <pitti> RShadow: you already did :-)
[03:12] <RShadow> I have a question about ubuntu policy..
[03:12] <pitti> RShadow: just go ahead
[03:12] <RShadow> HostingGeek Umm no
[03:12] <RShadow> HostingGeek if he has to rebuild
[03:12] <RShadow> HostingGeek then he also need to rebuild all the packages
[03:12] <RShadow> HostingGeek as per policy
[03:12] <RShadow> HostingGeek thats why with 1 change in one of xorg's packages means a new package for each part of xorg
[03:12] <RShadow> is that ubuntu's policy?
[03:13] <Kamion> that's not policy, it's how the system works technically
[03:13] <Seveas> Kamion, is xorg one source package?
[03:13] <Kamion> Seveas: yes
[03:13] <pitti> yes
[03:13] <fabbione> Seveas: yes
[03:13] <RShadow> So if a new version of evolution is released .. then the entire gnome tree has to be rebuilt
[03:13] <Kamion> RShadow: er, no
[03:13] <Kamion> RShadow: uploads happen in units of source packages
[03:14] <Kamion> RShadow: evolution is a different source package from the rest of GNOME
[03:14] <Seveas> cool, i'm starting to understand apt :)
[03:14] <Kamion> but libx11-6 is in the same source package as xserver-xorg, say
[03:15] <Kamion> RShadow: just FYI, HostingGeek is not what you might call an expert on Ubuntu policy
[03:15] <RShadow> Kamion: I know .. he has been lying to me for like 45min now
[03:15] <RShadow> Kamion: I just wanted to bust him some more
[03:15] <Kamion> Seveas: it's not apt, it's the archive management system, plus (a) things like GPL requirements to have source matching binaries, (b) sanity
[03:15] <Seveas> ah, thats right yeah
[03:16] <Seveas> and the sanity argument is definitely right :)
[03:16] <Kamion> (b) is more important really, we really don't want to have binary packages lying around that we can't rebuild, it just gets silly
[03:16] <fabbione> Kamion: do you want me to see if 7906 is reproducible?
[03:16] <fabbione> acutally i can test 8287 too
[03:16] <Kamion> fabbione: no, I know why #7906 is happening and I'm sure it's reproducible
[03:16] <RShadow> not to be a bother more .. but is there a xdirectfb package for ubuntu?
[03:17] <fabbione> Kamion: ok, what about 8287?
[03:17] <Kamion> fabbione: yes, that would be useful
[03:17] <fabbione> it means installing Xp, but it is for a good cause ;)
[03:17] <Kamion> RShadow: not as far as I know
[03:17] <fabbione> Kamion: ok, i will finish the standard i386 install and test that
[03:19] <kagou> hi
[03:20] <fabbione> Kamion: btw.. i have xen kernels ready to test. Perhaps we should take a look at UDU if we can use them for d-i testing
[03:21] <Kamion> fabbione: the problem's always been that requiring a different kernel means you have to do a separate build of d-i with different sets of module udebs, which means that you invalidate testing of a lot of the things that can actually break d-i
[03:22] <fabbione> Kamion: good point..
[03:22] <Kamion> but I mean sure, more testing's always useful, I just don't think it's a substitute for real testing, and especially with automatic installations you can get even more benefit with the same amount of automation from testing on real hardware :-)
[03:22] <Kamion> s/real testing/real hardware/
[03:23] <fabbione> no it's not a substitute for real hardware when it goes to hardware detection, but it can be useful to test generic code
[03:23] <thom> Kamion: did you ever look into the testing plan stuff?
[03:23] <Kamion> thom: no, sorry :(
[03:24] <Kamion> fabbione: yeah, that's true
[03:24] <thom> Kamion: heh, damn. i was hoping to be able to steal something for the server testing stuffs
[03:25] <fabbione> thom, Kamion: i really know the pain you are going trough
[03:25] <thom> fabbione: well volunteered; i want to see your work by the end of school today!
[03:29] <fabbione> Kamion: apt-setup udeb goes banana here. all the screen is cluttered with tons of stuff
[03:29] <fabbione> but it seems to work tho
[03:31] <Kamion> fabbione: I'm fixing some stuff, and also it's known-broken in that way for some types of installs (server, iirc)
[03:31] <Kamion> the output's harmless
[03:32] <fabbione> i am not there yet in testing.. still doing the normal one
[03:32] <fabbione> Kamion: the standard install is asking for the CD in stage 2
[03:32] <fabbione> :(
[03:34] <lamont> moo
[03:34] <fabbione> hey lamont 
[03:35] <pitti> Hi lamont
[03:35] <lamont> fabbione: shame on you scaring jbailey that way. :)
[03:36] <zul> hey lamont 
[03:36] <fabbione> lamont: ehehhe
[03:36] <lamont> morning zul, pitti
[03:36] <fabbione> and outside.. i have to admit i am improving
[03:37] <jbailey> lamont: Actually, him telling me that the buildds went nuts at least let me know that it was the udev-in-chroot issue that you were worried about. =)
[03:39] <lamont> jbailey: heh
[03:40] <Kamion> fabbione: was this a netboot install?
[03:43] <fabbione> Kamion: no, cd install, but there are problems in phase2 too. checking now
[03:44] <Kamion> fabbione: odd, well I'm fixing the apt-setup spamming the screen problem now, but who knows what consequences the broken apt-setup/another question might've had
[03:45] <fabbione> it is installing some extra packages from CD that were not copied to the hd
[03:45] <fabbione> i wonder if that's related to archive-copier problem mdz was talkign about this morning
[03:45] <Kamion> which ones?
[03:45] <Kamion> the archive-copier bug was as far as I know specific to amd64 (although only by chance)
[03:45] <Kamion> I doubt it's related
[03:46] <Kamion> (I've fully analysed and fixed it already)
[03:46] <fabbione> ok it's the media that sucks
[03:47] <fabbione> I/O error
[03:56] <Kamion> thom: could you look at why rookery's mirror is so badly out of date? it's starting to become a real problem for sanity of germinate output and things
[03:57] <thom> Kamion: sure, looking
[03:57] <Kamion> thanks
[03:58] <elmo> don't bother, I'm working on it
[03:58] <thom> oh, k
[03:59] <elmo> kamion: it's the same reason I explained to you last week...
[04:00] <Kamion> elmo: mirnyy's load issues? I thought those had been fixed/worked-around
[04:00] <elmo> kamion: no, mirnyy not being archive.u.c anymore
[04:00] <Kamion> oh, so it was just mirroring from an out-of-date place?
[04:00] <elmo> yes
[04:01] <mvo> Kamion: I'm doing a test-install right now and got a strange question ". Hoever, you may want to add another source to apt, so it can ownload from more than one location.". is this a known problem? (it's not translated and the leading "." looks wrong)
[04:01] <Kamion> mvo: yes, known, fixing
[04:02] <mvo> Kamion: thanks
[04:02] <elmo> Kamion: btw, mirror stuff is still asking random extra questions on netboot
[04:02] <Kamion> the leading "." is a debconf bug I think, but it doesn't matter because I'll be making that question go away again except in expert mode
[04:02] <Kamion> elmo: yeah, I know :(
[04:02] <Kamion> haven't figured out exactly what I need to do to fix that
[04:02] <Kamion> mvo: this is what I was talking about above, with apt changing the capitalisation of "Normal Packages:" in apt-cache stats
[04:03] <mvo> Kamion: matt applied a patch that changes some capitialisation recently :(
[04:03] <mvo> in 0.6.35 IIRC 
[04:04] <Kamion> mvo: yes, that's what did it
[04:04] <maswan> elmo: psst. mirror pushes to se.archive? or should I start cron-mirroring again?
[04:04] <elmo> maswan: releases or archive?
[04:04] <maswan> elmo: archive. currently I'm updating manually when I think I need new packages for my laptop. :)
[04:05] <elmo> maswan: please cron.mirror - I haven't worked out the details of how often/when to trigger archive mirrors
[04:05] <maswan> elmo: Ok.
[04:05] <elmo> Kamion: btw, please trigger frei.ubuntu.com for cdimage/releases pulses
[04:07] <Kamion> elmo: done
[04:07] <Kamion> elmo: any I can remove from the current list? (syncproxy, auckland, mirnyy, frei, orcadas)
[04:08] <elmo> Kamion: do you have separate triggers for releases/cdimage/torrent?
[04:08] <Kamion> elmo: no
[04:08] <elmo> then, no not really
[04:09] <Kamion> ok
[04:09] <elmo> well, you could drop auckland actually
[04:09] <elmo> might as well break people using archive.u.c/cdimage/ now
[04:09] <Kamion> hmm, good idea
[04:11] <Kamion> elmo: done; I guess nuking archive.u.c/cdimage/ altogether would be best so that people don't get confused by out-of-date stuff
[04:11] <elmo> yeah, I'm about to 
[04:12] <elmo> pitti: what were those mozilla packages you wanted removed?
[04:13] <pitti> elmo: mozilla-firefox-locale-{de,es-ar,es-es,pl,pt-br}
[04:14] <elmo> pitti: hmm, ok, thats not what I was hoping ;)
[04:14] <elmo> pitti: there's a bunch of uninstallable mozilla-locale packages - don't suppose you'd care to have a look? ;)
[04:14] <pitti> ah, these
[04:15] <pitti> elmo: gimme a minute
[04:16] <pitti> elmo: we need syncs for mozilla-locale-{da,it,ptbr}
[04:16] <thom> anyone want to admit to owning a printer? if so, can you reproduce 8342?
[04:16] <elmo> pitti: can you do the usual mail-for-approval dance?
[04:16] <pitti> elmo: already approved
[04:16] <pitti> elmo: these are quite old
[04:16] <elmo> pitti: msg-id or on IRC?
[04:17] <pitti> elmo: by mail
[04:17] <pitti> elmo: Message-ID: <20050320170222.GQ17070@alcor.net>
[04:18] <mvo> thom: works for me(tm)
[04:18] <thom> i think he's upgraded and not restarted
[04:18] <thom> mvo: thanks
[04:18] <elmo> pitti: all I have is this mail from you about this sync, not that msg from matt
[04:19] <elmo> (not that it matters now, but FYI)
[04:19] <elmo> Kamion: rookery's syncing now and should be able to sync from now on
[04:19] <elmo> how often did you wanted it synced?
[04:19] <Kamion> elmo: every six hours, say?
[04:20] <Kamion> that should satisfy my AWTY needs ;)
[04:20] <Kamion> but more seriously should be enough for translation updates at least
[04:20] <elmo> pitti: also mail ssays de-at too - still need that?
[04:20] <thom> and changelogs too i suppose
[04:20] <Kamion> oh, changelogs runs on rookery?
[04:20] <mvo> thom: changelogs++
[04:20] <elmo> yes
[04:21] <pitti> elmo: de-at is obsolete now, you can ditch it
[04:21] <pitti> elmo: no, please wait, this was for ffox
[04:21] <pitti> elmo: right, we need that too
[04:23] <elmo> daniels: ? [in the right chan] 
[04:24] <elmo> kamion/mvo/anyone else who cares: ok, done, at 4,10,16,22 :15
[04:24] <mvo> elmo: thanks!
[04:24] <Kamion> elmo: great, thanks
[04:25] <elmo> Kamion: at some stage we should switch little over to using sync-proxy too, but ICBA ATM
[04:25] <Kamion> elmo: nod
[04:26] <elmo> xfree86-driver-fglrx
[04:26] <elmo> ^-- looks to be the last remaining uninstallable in main
[04:27] <Seveas> elmo, isn't that fglrx-driver?
[04:27] <elmo> oh and the -dev too
[04:27] <elmo> Seveas: dunno
[04:28] <Seveas> on warty it was fglrx-driver, on hoary xfree86-driver-fglrx, sorry
[04:28] <fabbione> elmo: afaik these 2 packages are there only for people that still want to run xfree86
[04:28] <fabbione> elmo: it should be safe to move them to universe
[04:28] <fabbione> elmo: where the xfree86 server is
[04:29] <fabbione> + they are in restricted, aren't they? they can't be in main
[04:29] <Kamion> multiverse not universe
[04:29] <Kamion> I've asked for that demotion a couple of times but I guess it got lost
[04:29] <elmo> ah, sorry, guess so
[04:29] <elmo> demoted now
[04:33] <jani> elmo let me know when you can be bothered with sync requests and keyring administrivia, thanks
[04:35] <Kamion> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=1911 -> hm, I wonder how I'm supposed to debug this
[04:36] <fabbione> Kamion: ask lamont :-)
[04:36] <Kamion> fabbione: ELANG - this is Chinese
[04:36] <fabbione> oh
[04:37] <elmo> right auckland's no longer serving cdimage or releases
[04:37] <fabbione> ask Herbert?
[04:37] <elmo> if anyone complains, please point them at the right CNAME
[04:37] <fabbione> elmo: so i guess archive.u.c doesn't serve cdimages anymore?
[04:37] <elmo> fabbione: yes
[04:37] <elmo> s/auckland/archive/
[04:38] <fabbione> ok
[04:38] <Kamion> fabbione: it's not a problem of understanding the language, just "random characters go missing"
[04:41] <fabbione> Kamion: all this torture just for you :)
[04:41] <fabbione> it rebooted already into phase 2^64
[04:44] <lamont> Kamion: obviously missing some utf-8 glyphs
[04:44] <lamont> fabbione: and that's chinese, not japanese... :)
[04:45] <Kamion> lamont: yeah but the question is why Debian's OK
[04:46] <doko> kamion, mdz: please could you review a python2.4 upload (chinstrap: ~doko/python2.4-debdiff)
[04:47] <lamont> Kamion: little green men?
[04:47] <lamont> aka, nfc
[04:47] <Kamion> doko: have you tested a debootstrap with that version?
[04:48] <doko> hmm, maybe I should, although it installs, the integrity check shows no additional modules.
[04:48] <Kamion> doko: just worried about extra deps and stuff
[04:49] <Kamion> you said extra bluetooth functionality was added to socket; won't that pull in libbluetooth1?
[04:50] <Kamion> doko: apart from that, ok
[04:50] <doko> kamion: no, only some constants from the bluetooth headers are added to the socket module
[04:53] <Kamion> doko: ah, ok
[05:07] <elmo> pitti: fr, it and ptbr are still br0ken
[05:07] <pitti> elmo: mozilla or ffox?
[05:08] <pitti> elmo: oh, I see
[05:13] <Jeeves_> Ehm,     SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:<mirrors@canonical.com>:
[05:14] <Jeeves_>     550 <mirrors@canonical.com>: Recipient address rejected:
[05:14] <Jeeves_>     User unknown in virtual alias table
[05:14] <elmo> meh, is that address still on the webpage?
[05:14] <elmo> I swear I've edited it a hundred times
[05:14] <Jeeves_> So where should I report my mirror? :)
[05:15] <elmo> Jeeves_: mirrors@ubuntu.com
[05:15] <Jeeves_> Ack
[05:15] <Jeeves_> Done
[05:19] <doko> kamion: debootstrap succeeded
[05:19] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync m-l-fr as well?
[05:20] <Kamion> doko: ok, go ahead
[05:20] <Kamion> thanks
[05:21] <daniels> elmo: represent
[05:21] <elmo> daniels: sorry, doesn't matter
[05:21] <daniels> rad
[05:21] <daniels> but while you're at it, could I please get access to little back?
[05:21] <elmo> pitti: ok, done
[05:21] <pitti> thanks
[05:22] <doko> kamion: uploaded
[05:23] <elmo> if that installs, we're down to: kdesdk and mozilla-locale-{ptbr,it} as uninstallables
[05:23] <fabbione> elmo: kdesdk is also FTBFS :)
[05:23] <doko> elmo: please could you sync python2.3 from unstable (same locale.py patch as in the python2.4 upload)
[05:23] <fabbione> it needs kdewebdev from universe
[05:24] <elmo> fabbione: I know, riddell's aware
[05:24] <fabbione> rocking
[05:24] <elmo> doko: was the python2.4 upload approved?
[05:24] <pelle> is paul sladen still working on usplash?
[05:25] <jbailey> pelle: I don't think so.
[05:25] <Mithrandir> elmo: could you please sync guifications from unstable?  (universe package, not in ubuntu, afaik)
[05:25] <pelle> jbailey: ok. is anybody else doing that?
[05:26] <jbailey> pelle: Daniel Stone and I looked at it briefly, but it's defered until breezy.
[05:26] <pelle> jbailey: do you have a repository for it?
[05:26] <jbailey> pelle: Nope.  We didn't get beyond reviewing really what would need to happen in what piece.
[05:27] <pelle> jbailey: ok, thanks
[05:27] <elmo> Mithrandir: done
[05:27] <doko> elmo: 16* ^^
[05:27] <Mithrandir> elmo: thanks
[05:27] <doko> elmo: yes
[05:27] <Mithrandir> daniels: xserver-xorg _still_ asks loads of questions on upgrades.
[05:28] <elmo> doko: 2.3.5-2, yah?
[05:28] <daniels> Mithrandir: bah, impossible.  which version?
[05:28] <elmo> doko: if so, done
[05:29] <jani> elmo, could you sync darcs from unstable (universe)?
[05:30] <doko> elmo: thanks
[05:32] <elmo> jani: done
[05:32] <daniels> Mithrandir: if you could unpack the deb, repack it with postinst and config modified to use sh -x, and send me the output, that would be fantastic
[05:32] <daniels> doubly so if you use DEBUG_XORG_PACKAGE=verbose
[05:32] <daniels> or =developer, whichever
[05:37] <Mithrandir> daniels: I'll do that.
[05:38] <jbailey> Hmm, apparently there are limits to the number of computers I can plug into a breaker. =)
[05:40] <thom> bloody hell how big is kdepim; seems like i've been mirroring it for hours
[05:40] <daniels> Mithrandir: cheers
[05:41] <daniels> thom: hoooooooge
[05:41] <daniels> thom: the problem with kdepim is that they were sharing lots of code between kmail et al and lots of kdepim components
[05:41] <daniels> thom: so rather than make another component for a common library, kdepim subsumed kmail and friends
[05:41] <thom> holy mother of god thats CRACK
[05:42] <daniels> it makes sense from the point of view of having a big monolithic tree anyway
[05:42] <thom> as far as that makes sense, sure
[05:42] <elmo> hmm, I've ended up with no /.dev and /dev symlinks pointing to /.dev.  yay
[05:43] <elmo> including initctl
[05:43] <elmo> double yay
[05:44] <Mitario> hi guys
[05:44] <abelli> ciao
[05:49] <dholbach> hai
[05:49] <mvo> hey dholbach, wb
[05:50] <lamont> mdz around?
[05:50] <lamont> for that matter, any ppc-possessing people with a little time on their hands?
[05:50] <thom> lamont: sure
[05:50] <lamont> elmo: it's a runtime bug
[05:50] <lamont> :-)
[05:51] <elmo> X forwarding! ;)
[05:51] <thom> elmo: sicko :-)
[05:51] <fabbione> yeah right
[05:51] <thom> lamont: 'sup?
[05:51] <elmo> thom: it's only streaming video
[05:51] <elmo> what could possibly go wrong?
[05:51] <lamont> thom: if you're in the mood:  grab kino_0.75-6, edit debian/control (remove libavcodec-dev from build-dep), edit debian/rules (remove --with-avcodec), build it, and see how much of 5379 you can reproduce
[05:51] <Kamion> lamont: ah, figured out the Chinese font thing
[05:52] <lamont> Kamion: what was it?
[05:52] <lamont> elmo: do you have any idea how much it hurt when I fire up mozilla with a remote display?
[05:53] <Kamion> lamont: the switch from languagechooser to localechooser included a change from using anna-install to get bterm-unifont to using apt-install instead - but bterm-unifont's a udeb, so anna-install really was needed
[05:53] <elmo> lamont: dude, that's how I access iLOs on *.d.o :-P
[05:53] <Kamion> bterm-unifont is the non-reduced font used as soon as more than just the bare initrd is available
[05:53] <lamont> iLO?
[05:53] <elmo> transatlantic mozilla == pain, mmk
[05:53] <daniels> elmo: pussy
[05:53] <Kamion> it was figuring out that it looked different in CD-ROM and netboot installs that did the trick
[05:53] <elmo> lamont: i<mumble>Lights Out, remote management cards on HP servers
[05:53] <lamont> elmo: yeah, but I'm shaped to 256kbps...
[05:53] <daniels> full kde session over dialup == fun
[05:54] <daniels> elmo: integrated?
[05:54] <elmo> daniels: that's it
[05:54] <lamont> daniels: in the same way that the chinese water torture is "fun" to experience?
[05:54] <daniels> lamont: (this was when I was maintaining kde but didn't have the diskspace to build kdebase from kde3 at home)
[05:55] <lamont> note to channel: Kamion can debug chinese problems.  Send him your wierd crap.
[05:55] <lamont> daniels: ouch
[05:56] <lamont> thom: the question on 5379 is do we (a) remove the build-dep and down grade the bug, (b) remove the build-dep and close the bug, or (c) see about promoting libavcodec-dev to main...  (b) would be ideal, but I suspect (a) is the conclusion we'll reach
[05:57] <lamont> hrm.. speaking of which, I should go fetch iso's in a short while.
[05:57] <Kamion> lamont: screw you, hippy :-)
[05:57] <lamont> Kamion: any fresh CD builds planned, or can I presume they'll stay staic for a bit...
[05:58] <Kamion> lamont: another one this evening; not too many changes though
[05:58] <lamont> Kamion: woot
[05:58] <daniels> elmo: can't you get a serial console over telnet with ilo?
[05:58] <koke> elmo: is my key already added to keyring??
[05:59] <lamont> daniels: i==internet --> web, of course.
[05:59] <elmo> daniels: yeah, but some features (particularly remote setup/config changes) requires a browser
[05:59] <koke> I've been offline for some days and I don't know much about the progress...
[05:59] <Kamion> lamont: not the intended sequence ;)
[05:59] <daniels> elmo: right
[05:59] <elmo> koke: I've been offline with easter weekend too, I'll go see where we're upto with the new MOTUs in a bit
[05:59] <lamont> Kamion: that's what made it so damn funny
[05:59] <mvo> Kamion: test-install went fine BTW on i386 (modulo the problem you already know about in stage1)
[05:59] <daniels> lamont: er, you can feed it xml-rpc stuff to control most everything without needing a browser
[06:00] <lamont> daniels: ok
[06:00] <daniels> ilos are love
[06:00] <koke> elmo: ok, I don't even know if mako has sent you the neccesary data
[06:00] <daniels> part love and part crack, but that's ok.  it's the good crack.
[06:00] <lamont> daniels: crack-love?
[06:00] <daniels> love the crack
[06:01] <daniels> g'night kids
[06:01] <lamont> g'night daniels
[06:01] <mvo> night daniels 
[06:05] <Kamion> mvo: thanks
[06:10] <elmo> ok, who broke ubuntu-desktop
[06:10] <mdz> lamont: here
[06:11] <Mithrandir>  bah, why can't emacs edit scripts inside debian packages?
[06:11] <Mithrandir> stupid editor.
[06:11] <lamont> mdz: wondering your thoughts on 5379, but I guess we should see what the real story with avcodec is first...
[06:11] <lamont> (comments between my ping and now)
[06:13] <mdz> Kamion: how do we look?
[06:14] <Simira> mdz: better than ever, sweety ;)
[06:14] <ogra> sexy like always :)
[06:14] <Kamion> mdz: fixed the two of your showstoppers that belonged to me
[06:14] <Mithrandir> mdz: approval for ooo-amd64 upload with newest ooo?
[06:16] <mdz> Kamion: including the one which I apparently caused, eek
[06:16] <thom> lamont: building
[06:16] <mdz> Mithrandir: ok
[06:16] <mdz> er
[06:16] <Kamion> mdz: ah well
[06:16] <mdz> daniels just left?
[06:16] <Kamion> mdz: the archive-copier bug was amazing
[06:16] <mdz> I don't see a xorg upload while I was away
[06:17] <lamont> there's a -6ubuntu26
[06:17] <elmo> lamont: err?
[06:17] <mdz> Kamion: yeah, saw your analysis
[06:17] <dholbach> ogra: wb
[06:17] <Kamion> mdz: indeed, nor I ...
[06:17] <ogra> hey dholbach 
[06:18] <Kamion> though he did post a suggested fix procedure; I guess I could try that out
[06:18] <mdz> he was supposed to test that and have a new upload in the archive by now
[06:19] <mdz> fabbione: here?
[06:19] <fabbione> mdz: yes
[06:19] <Kamion> elmo: ubuntu-desktop> hmm?
[06:19] <mdz> fabbione: do you know what happened with daniels and xorg?
[06:20] <elmo> Kamion: nm, it was python being o-o-d
[06:20] <elmo> will fix itself
[06:20] <Kamion> k
[06:20] <fabbione> Kamion: i just managed to complete the setup for 8287.. fillint up the hd with junk right now :-)
[06:20] <elmo> still on: kdesdk (known fix, AIUI) and mozilla-locale-{it,ptbr}
[06:20] <fabbione> mdz: nope.
[06:21] <Kamion> maybe time to phone daniels; he's not been gone long
[06:21] <fabbione> mdz: he left 10 minutes ago or so
[06:30] <Kamion> fabbione: the ramdisk_size in silo.conf in installer-sparc/current/images/mini.iso looks accurate to me
[06:31] <fabbione> Kamion: i will test again later to see if it was just a case
[06:42] <pitti> seb128: what's the status of the uploads? I'm asking because of langpacks
[06:42] <seb128> Kamion: are you updating the installer translations for the preview today ? or that's already updated ?
[06:43] <seb128> pitti: I've just uploaded nautilus-sendto, I think all the packages are uploaded
[06:43] <seb128> let it some time to build
[06:43] <pitti> Kamion: seb128 is ready, is there still time for langpack updates?
[06:48] <Kamion> seb128: I'm only updating translations in the cases where I'm uploading the packages anyway
[06:48] <Kamion> at the moment I have no plans for any more
[06:48] <seb128> k
[06:48] <Kamion> pitti: yes, I think so
[06:48] <seb128> no big deal, but one of the french string in the kbd screen is too long and cut, I've just noticed :)
[06:48] <pitti> seb128: okay, so as soon as nautilus-sendto is built, I can go
[06:49] <seb128> pitti: correct
[06:49] <Kamion> seb128: yeah, too late for that sorry, I've already started the d-i initrds rebuilding
[06:49] <seb128> np
[06:51] <zul> lunch
[06:51] <mvo> Kamion, mdz: permission to upload a one-line fix to gnome-system-tools? debdiff at: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/review/gnome-system-tools/gnome-system-tools_1.2.0-0ubuntu3.debdiff
[06:52] <mdz> mvo: ok
[06:54] <lamont> any kino users out there with a ppc box and some time to play?
[07:00] <mvo> mdz: thanks 
[07:03] <Kamion> hmm, translation issues in tzsetup-udeb/apt-setup-udeb still
[07:03] <Kamion> I suspect it's better to fix those after RC :(
[07:04] <doko> Kamion, mdz: ok to upload the fix for #8284?
[07:04] <fabbione> mdz: the fix proposed on the mailing list seems to work
[07:04] <fabbione> mdz: i am building a livecd for testing
[07:06] <doko> mdz: the OO.o upload with the xhosa translations won't make it until tonight, I haven't got the complete translations yet.
[07:06] <seb128> doko: oh, you are doing an OO.o upload ? 
[07:07] <seb128> doko: I'll send you a french translation for the menu entries if that's ok
[07:07] <doko> seb128, yes, small 250.000 line patch
[07:07] <doko> seb128, yes
[07:07] <seb128> thanks
[07:07] <doko> Mithrandir: cool
[07:08] <Mithrandir> it takes a few minutes, upload.u.c is a tad slowish
[07:09] <trulux> tritium: hey
[07:10] <Mithrandir> doko: uploaded.
[07:10] <mdz> doko: ok
[07:10] <mdz> fabbione: thanks
[07:10] <ogra> mdz, hwdb.ubuntu.com/hwdb-data# ls |grep -c .xml
[07:10] <ogra> 149
[07:11] <Mithrandir> doko: tell me when the xhosa stuff is up there so I can use a gig more of bandwidth.
[07:11] <ogra> this is for less then 7h up 
[07:11] <ogra> :)
[07:12] <mdz> ogra: nice!
[07:12] <schweeb> ogra: if you remind me in about 7 hrs I'll send my data in :)
[07:12] <ogra> yup :)
[07:12] <mdz> ogra: we'll include a blurb in the release candidate announcement; that should kill your server nicely ;-)
[07:12] <ogra> argh
[07:13] <Mithrandir> ogra: it would be nice if I could go back in the hwdb-client
[07:14] <trulux> btw, anyone owns a copy of Sun Tzu's Art of War in pdf? I'm going to buy it on Amazon but I need to make a review for tomorrow and I've forgotten mnay references and sayings from the book
[07:14] <ogra> Mithrandir, i doubt i will make it in this release, i'm happy that i have gotten it in the shape it currnetly is, there are still some small but nasty bugs to fix
[07:14] <trulux> from the online copies of the book at sonshi.com
[07:14] <Mithrandir> trulux: http://www.kimsoft.com/polwar.htm , for instance?
[07:16] <Mithrandir> trulux: or http://www.huntingdonsucks.com/downloads/the_art_of_war.pdf for a pdf
[07:16] <Mithrandir> ogra: and it should list the data it sends before sending it off, due to privacy reasons.
[07:17] <trulux> Mithrandir: many thanks!
[07:17] <Mithrandir> ogra: and it would be nice if the timeout counted down and had a real progress meter for the upload. :)
[07:17] <ogra> Mithrandir, there is no private data inside :) except the comments the user wirtes himself
[07:18] <Mithrandir> ogra: it should still list what it's going to send.
[07:18] <Mithrandir> and the fading is dog slow over forwarded X11. :P
[07:18] <ogra> Mithrandir, the sendbar is one of the nasty little bugs i talked about ;)
[07:18] <fabbione> mdz: the test you did with a working DDC probe was ok or do you i need to test that too?
[07:19] <fabbione> mdz: the code path is pretty clear and it shouldn't have any problem
[07:19] <mdz> fabbione: it would be worthwhile to test that as well
[07:19] <Mithrandir> ogra: how does it handle the case of multiple sound cards?
[07:20] <Mithrandir> (or video cards or whatever)
[07:20] <fabbione> mdz: ok, if i give you an i386.deb can you test it? the machine i have with DDC working has non-suitable setup for it right now
[07:21] <lamont> s/archive/archive production process/
[07:21] <ogra> Mithrandir, the test currently only picks the default alsa device (first card) but the detailed info is in hwdb-xml -d
[07:22] <elmo> lamont: don't use ftp-master then :P
[07:22] <ogra> which is attached to the file
[07:22] <elmo> that inconsistency isn't exposed in the real world
[07:22] <lamont> elmo: is user in #ubuntu
[07:22] <lamont> he managed to catch the mirror process
[07:23] <mvo> lamont: you are not the only one. users complain about that too :)
[07:23] <ogra> Mithrandir, the app doesnt by far do what i wanted to do it yet, version2 will be a lot more automated....
[07:23] <elmo> eh, how?
[07:23] <lamont> mvo: yeah - been chatting with Seq about it in #ubuntu
[07:24] <fabbione> ok anybody with an i386 and DDC working?
[07:24] <lamont> elmo: rsync still takes finite time to move the files
[07:24] <lamont> hence, you can grab one, rsync comes blazing through, and then you grab the next
[07:24] <elmo> lamont: time to fetch dists/* shouldn't be that much, it's not like it mirrors pool/ in between
[07:24] <fabbione> the output from xresprobe will tell you if your DDC are working
[07:24] <lamont> esp true for users with slower links
[07:24] <lamont> elmo: yeah - the user is the one taking the long time
[07:25] <elmo> well I don't see how we could fix this really
[07:25] <mdz> fabbione: the only machine where I could test that is a laptop with LCD; that doesn't test the proper case, does it?
[07:25] <lamont> elmo: me neither
[07:26] <lamont> elmo: on the bright side, once hoary ships, we stop generating new Packages/Release.gpg files every 30 minutes... :-)
[07:26] <fabbione> mdz: did X actually detecte the LCD size properly?
[07:26] <mdz> the only way to fix that case would be to fetch both files at the same time, I suppose
[07:26] <mdz> fabbione: yes
[07:26] <fabbione> mdz: than it is ok
[07:26] <mdz> fabbione: but doesn't it do that by calling X, not using DDC?
[07:27] <fabbione> xresprobe does the detection passing the info back to X
[07:27] <fabbione> it doesn't really matter how it detected the info
[07:27] <fabbione> mdz: grab the xserver-xorg from people.u.c/~fabbione
[07:27] <fabbione> mdz: purge the one you have installed and make sure there is no /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[07:27] <fabbione> install the one from p.u.c
[07:27] <fabbione> and see if you get prompted for a question or not
[07:28] <elmo> lamont: it's definitely in, maybe even enabled by default
[07:28] <enrico> mdz: what did you want me to upload?
[07:28] <elmo> whine whine whine
[07:28] <mdz> enrico: current svn, with mako's fixes to the about page
[07:28] <elmo> mdz: in any idea how I convince apt-ftparchive to not generate Packages/Sources files?
[07:29] <lamont> mvo: how about this (for breezy timeframe, of course): fetch Release.gpg, Release, if bad-sig ,fetch Release.gpg.  if bad-sig, error.  Fetch Packages.   check all Packages, if bad sig, refetch Releases.gpg, Releases as before.  Packages sigs must be in one of the two validated Release files.
[07:29] <enrico> mdz: I'll try.
[07:29] <thom> mdz: i did that yesterday
[07:29] <thom> enrico: ^^
[07:29] <elmo> there doesn't seem to be a tree equivalent of 'Contents " "'
[07:29] <mdz> enrico: ^^
[07:29] <mvo> lamont: we could also try to fetch Release.gpg and Release in parallel?
[07:29] <thom> mdz: sorry, should've mentioned it
[07:29] <elmo> enrico: ^^
[07:29] <lamont> mvo: sure
[07:29] <mdz> lamont: you can easily check the functionality of hoary-updates by doing a test install
[07:30] <lamont> mdz: is inplan
[07:30] <mdz> thom: I didn't see it go by on hoary-changes, thanks
[07:30] <mdz> lamont: would be a good idea to pull down CDs now so that you can rsync less later
[07:30] <lamont> mvo: if you fetch them in parallell, then you have to refetch both if you get a badsig
[07:30] <lamont> mdz: gonna drive to the neighbors, where fresh iso's were downloaded overnight
[07:31] <thom> mdz: np; i just had a horror moment and checked - ubuntu-docs |    0.4.1-1 |         hoary | source, all :-)
[07:31] <Kamion> lamont: should be enabled by default as of base-config 2.62ubuntu17
[07:31] <lamont> Kamion: ok.
[07:31] <HoMiE-[G] > hey
[07:31] <mdz> lamont: wonderful
[07:31] <lamont> :-)
[07:31] <HoMiE-[G] > i was just told to ask her about serial mouses
[07:31] <HoMiE-[G] > is there anything i can do to get mine working ?
[07:32] <airox> Is python similar to other programming languages ? So, is it easy to learn ?
[07:32] <HoMiE-[G] > anyone ?
[07:33] <lamont> Kamion: /current is from ~02:30 UTC?
[07:33] <schweeb> airox: it shouldn't be tough... although that's a bit OT for here
[07:33] <airox> Well ubuntu uses python a lot didn't it ?
[07:33] <schweeb> yes
[07:34] <airox> Ok
[07:34] <Seveas> airox, yes, but this is a development channel
[07:34] <airox> I know :)
[07:34] <airox> That's why I asked.
[07:34] <HoMiE-[G] > yo
[07:34] <HoMiE-[G] > can someone help me ?
[07:34] <elmo> pitti: ?
[07:34] <fabbione> Kamion: where in partitioner i can resize the NTFS thingy?
[07:34] <lamont> HoMiE-[G] : that's a #ubuntu question
[07:34] <schweeb> airox: if the channel name was #python, it would be on topic :)
[07:34] <lamont> HoMiE-[G] : this would be the channel to discuss your patch to fix it.
[07:34] <lamont> :-(
[07:34] <HoMiE-[G] > my mouse isnt ps2
[07:35] <HoMiE-[G] > its serial
[07:35] <pitti> elmo: ?
[07:35] <fabbione> Kamion: never mind
[07:35] <airox> schweeb: It had a reason behind (sorry can't seem to find a better translation for this sentence).
[07:35] <seb128> doko: http://rafb.net/paste/results/flz8ku47.html
[07:35] <elmo> pitti: you on top of the mozilla-locale crap or should I file it as a bug?
[07:35] <HoMiE-[G] > i asked in #ubuntu
[07:35] <HoMiE-[G] > but they said to come here
[07:35] <HoMiE-[G] > cause they didnt think a serial mouse is supported
[07:36] <pitti> elmo: are there still issues? I thought now we've got everything?
[07:36] <lamont> HoMiE-[G] : my daughter's computer had a ps2  mouse plugged into the serial port
[07:36] <lamont> until the motherboard died, that is.
[07:36] <elmo> pitti:  -it and -ptbr aren't installable ATM
[07:36] <HoMiE-[G] > lemont
[07:36] <pitti> elmo: okay, I'll look after it
[07:36] <HoMiE-[G] > well mine is a ps2 mouse
[07:37] <HoMiE-[G] > plugged into a serial port
[07:37] <HoMiE-[G] > what can i do ?
[07:37] <Treenaks> HoMiE-[G] : plug it into a PS/2 port, or make sure the mouse is capable of functioning in the way you've connected it
[07:37] <HoMiE-[G] > i know it is
[07:37] <Kamion> lamont: right, I'm currently rebuilding
[07:37] <HoMiE-[G] > cause i used it on windows for the longest time
[07:37] <lamont> HoMiE-[G] : in any case, it's not a development question, hence OT
[07:38] <doko> seb128: thanks
[07:38] <seb128> thank you
[07:38] <lamont> Kamion: ok.  holler when you're done, so I can freshen things before I go fetch
[07:39] <mdz> fabbione: hmm
[07:39] <enrico> thom, mdz, elmo: thanks ^^
[07:39] <mdz> Unpacking xserver-xorg (from xserver-xorg_6.8.2-6_i386.deb) ...
[07:39] <mdz> Setting up xserver-xorg (6.8.2-6) ...
[07:39] <mdz> cat: /var/lib/xfree86/xorg.conf.md5sum: No such file or directory
[07:39] <mdz> xserver-xorg postinst warning: not updating /etc/X11/xorg.conf; file has
[07:39] <mdz>    been customized
[07:40] <fabbione> mdz: did you make sure that /etc/X11/xorg.conf was removed?
[07:40] <fabbione> i didn't see that error at all
[07:40] <mdz> fabbione: yes, but then I installed xserver-xorg and it failed to configure due to a missing dep
[07:40] <mdz> hmm, still happening though
[07:40] <mdz> see /msg
[07:41] <fabbione> mdz: can you try to purge it completely?
[07:41] <fabbione> and reinstall again?
[07:41] <mdz> fabbione: I have done that several times, but sure
[07:41] <fabbione> mdz: weird.. because i don't get that message here
[07:42] <fabbione> mdz: that error is weird
[07:43] <fabbione> i am checking if i can reproduce it with a DDCable machine
[07:43] <mdz> it is 100% reproducible
[07:43] <fabbione> but i don't think that is the problem
[07:43] <mdz> fabbione: the result is a correct xorg.conf, though
[07:43] <fabbione> not the line i changed at least
[07:44] <fabbione> the change is just to handle the priority at install/upgrade time
[07:44] <mdz> this machine is not up to date; I will upgrade it and re-test to be sure
[07:44] <fabbione> but nothing more than that
[07:44] <fabbione> mdz: ok thanks
[07:44] <fabbione> i am almost finished installing my box here
[07:44] <fabbione> so i can test on more machines
[07:44] <fabbione> and livecd is burning
[07:46] <elmo> Removing render-dev ...
[07:46] <elmo> dpkg - warning, overriding problem because --force enabled:
[07:46] <elmo>  This is an essential package - it should not be removed.
[07:46] <elmo> that's some good crack, monsieur dpkg
[07:46] <fabbione> ahahhaha
[07:47] <fabbione> mdz: see ^^^we can blame Keybuk !
 iz gtk bug
[07:48] <mdz> elmo: how did that happen?
[07:48] <elmo> mdz: I removed a bunch of packages from a chroot, including python2.4 and python2.4-minimal and it seemed to lose it in terms of what it considered Essential
[07:49] <Keybuk> don't suppose you've got a copy of your status file around?
[07:49] <elmo> pre or post?
[07:49] <Keybuk> elmo: both
[07:49] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: s/Keybuk/seb128/
[07:50] <elmo> Keybuk: only post now - but I'll copy that to one side and try and reproduce
[07:50] <Keybuk> it could be that the file is a little corrupt, and the field has become attached to the next package in the list (guessing)
[07:50] <elmo> oh, I have status-old
[07:51] <elmo> Keybuk: http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/paste/status
[07:51] <elmo> Keybuk: http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/paste/status-old
[07:52] <maswan> elmo: did you want anything important?
[07:52] <elmo> maswan: hmm?
[07:52] <Mithrandir> maswan: saw my message about grim?
[07:52] <maswan> Mithrandir: yeah, thanks
[07:53] <Keybuk> elmo: looks like you've purged stuff since
[07:53] <elmo> Keybuk: yeah, meh, that status-old isn't pre the apt-get purge.. lemme retry 
[07:55] <Keybuk> doesn't match any bug I'm aware of :-/
[07:57] <Keybuk> oh, wait
[07:57] <elmo> reproducible at least
[07:57] <Keybuk> what's the "Removing" line *after* that message? :p
[07:58] <elmo> Removing patch ...
[07:58] <elmo> dpkg - warning, overriding problem because --force enabled:
[07:58] <elmo>  This is an essential package - it should not be removed.
[07:58] <elmo> Removing quanta-data ...
[07:58] <elmo> for example..
[07:58] <Keybuk> kooky
[07:59] <elmo> getting a pre and post for you
[07:59] <mdz> Keybuk: say, why is it that dpkg doesn't seem to pay attention to priority changes in new versions of binary packages?
[07:59] <Keybuk> mdz: because apt never calls dpkg --update-avail? :p
[08:00] <mdz> avail?
[08:00] <mdz> I mean Priority: in the status file
[08:00] <mdz> for installed packages
[08:01] <ubuntu> So I'm playing with a live CD of hoary and I see the default evolution launcher in the panel is still "versioned"
[08:01] <pitti> seeeeeeeeeeeb!!!
[08:01] <Keybuk> mdz: because the info from the available file overrides it
[08:01] <Keybuk> it assumes that ftpmaster is all-knowing
[08:01] <pitti> seb128: I think there is something wrong with your g-c-m upload
[08:01] <mdz> Keybuk: ??///
[08:01] <seb128> pitti: oh ?
[08:01] <Keybuk> the Priority, Section, etc. of a package is frequently bogus
[08:01] <Keybuk> because ftpmaster override it
[08:01] <shaya> just evolution-2.2 now
[08:01] <seb128> ?
[08:01] <mdz> hmm, point
[08:01] <pitti> seb128: all po files are in po/, but da.po is in gnome-cups-manager-0.30/po
[08:02] <shaya> it woul seem to cause the same problem as warty's evolution-2.0 issue
[08:02] <Keybuk> so dpkg always uses the values from the available file
[08:02] <Keybuk> and writes those to status, not what it found in the package
[08:02] <shaya> why not just make that launcher "evolution" (plain no version)
[08:02] <seb128> pitti: hum, lemme check
[08:02] <Keybuk> but because apt never updates dpkg's available database, things never change
[08:02] <mdz> I maintain that dpkg's available database is a bug
[08:02] <elmo> Keybuk: same place has status-pre, status-post and not-so-essential.txt.  can reproduce on demand if you need more
[08:02] <fabbione> mdz: -7 is go for me on install on both non-DDC and DDC boxes. Testing LiveCD now
[08:03] <mdz> fabbione: great, thanks
[08:03] <seb128> pitti: utch, lemme fix
[08:03] <mdz> fabbione: 1 question on non-DDC, 0 questions on DDC?
[08:03] <shaya> mdz: a bug or a dselect tied into guts of dpkg issue?
[08:03] <fabbione> mdz: correct
[08:03] <Kamion> mdz: it's not really dpkg's database anyway, it's dselect's
[08:03] <mdz> Kamion: see above, though
[08:03] <Kamion> mdz: and its author agrees with you that it shouldn't be in dpkg
[08:03] <shaya> which remidns me
[08:04] <shaya> why in the world does dselect pre-depend on dpkg?
[08:04] <Kamion> shaya: upgrades
[08:04] <shaya> upgrades?
[08:04] <Kamion> shaya: it's transitional
[08:04] <shaya> hmm
[08:04] <mdz> shaya: you mean dpkg pre-depending on dselect?
[08:04] <Kamion> hasn't stopped people filing bugs in an attempt to break the transition though
[08:04] <shaya> Kamion: it's been like that for ages
[08:04] <seb128> pitti: in fact it's in po/da.po and gnome-cups-manager-0.30/po/da.po
[08:04] <Kamion> shaya: that's because it's ages since woody
[08:04] <mdz> shaya: it's been like that for <1 Debian release
[08:04] <seb128> pitti: that's bogus but works :p
[08:04] <shaya> ah
[08:04] <shaya> makes sense
[08:05] <shaya> so since sarge will never ship, it will never change :)
[08:05] <Keybuk> Kamion: ish; there's a lot of requirement in dpkg for an available file too
[08:05] <Keybuk> removing it isn't a simple matter
[08:05] <Kamion> Keybuk: mm, true, actually I think I was thinking of the desired-state bit in status
[08:06] <Keybuk> eg. dpkg relies on package control data being in available to support --configure -a
[08:06] <mdz> shaya: I don't think that's true, apart from not being very nice :-P
[08:07] <Keybuk> elmo: can you reproduce with -D7777 and send me the (yards) of output
[08:08] <seb128> pitti: fixed
[08:08] <elmo> Keybuk: k
[08:09] <Keybuk> uh, status and status-old don't match what you actually did in not-so-essential.txt ?
[08:09] <Keybuk> ah, *finds status-pre and status-post in ..*
[08:09] <seb128> shaya: what do you want to change to the evo desktop files ?
[08:09] <elmo> yah, sorry, ignore status and status-old
[08:10] <fabbione> mdz: -7 is go on 3/3 boxes with expected behavior, both install and liveCD
[08:10] <mdz> fabbione: fantabulous, upload when ready
[08:10] <fabbione> mdz: it's on the way
[08:11] <lamont> Mithrandir: thanks
[08:11] <Mithrandir> lamont: what's up with it?
[08:12] <lamont> Mithrandir: successful build, just needs a little bit of love\
[08:12] <Mithrandir> oh, ok
[08:12] <lamont> crested is coming back into the rotation, and um, needed some, um, personal attention
[08:13] <fabbione> elmo, lamont: can we make xorg -7 go slightly faster to the buildd?? it should be accepted in 2 minutes by katie
[08:13] <Mithrandir> *chuckle*; :-)
[08:13] <lamont> fabbione: that's an elmo question
[08:14] <fabbione> elmo: ?
[08:14] <elmo> well I just locked myself out of my home machine with keybuk's evil -D 7777 DOS
[08:14] <elmo> laLALALAla
[08:14] <Keybuk> don't tell me you forgot to redirect the output? :p
[08:14] <fabbione> elmo: you rock!
[08:18] <mdz> smurfix: ping?
[08:21] <elmo> fabbione: pushed through
[08:21] <Keybuk> lamont: I suspect he just went dpkg -D7777 over an ssh connection
[08:21] <Keybuk> it tends to give a lot of output veryveryvery fast :p
[08:21] <fabbione> elmo: thanks
[08:21] <lamont> ah, -D == debug?
[08:21] <jani> elmo could you please sync from unstable ruby-defaults and ruby1.8 ? I tested them, thanks (for darcs too)
[08:21] <Keybuk> (and usually coredumps at some point, yay)
[08:22] <lamont> Keybuk: hrm.. you should fix that. :-P
[08:22] <Keybuk> lamont: I fix 'em as I find 'em
[08:22] <elmo> jani: ruby1.8 is in main
[08:23] <jani> elmo, oh :(
[08:23] <elmo> will need approval from mdz before I can sync that at this point
[08:23] <mdz> I thought we managed to kick ruby1.8 out of main
[08:23] <elmo> I assume no point in syncing one without the other?
[08:23] <jani> I thought all ruby was universe
[08:23] <jani> elmo, right they go together
[08:23] <elmo> mdz: swig and redland-bindings seem to be pulling it in
[08:23] <jani> indeed I wonder why since ruby is in universe
[08:23] <mdz> jani: today is the day before the Ubuntu 5.04 release candidate; we aren't changing anything without a very good reason
[08:24] <mxpxpod> jbailey: hey
[08:24] <mdz> jani: what bugs will it fix?
[08:24] <jani> mdz, right I missed the fact ruby1.8 was in main
[08:24] <mdz> jani: is it needed to fix some universe packages?
[08:24] <jani> mdz, well a lot of bugs since it's a stable ruby
[08:24] <jani> but some packages in sid depend on it
[08:24] <jbailey> mxpxpod: 'sup?
[08:25] <mxpxpod> jbailey: not much... how goes the libmpeg2 stuff?
[08:25] <jani> and we cannot bring those in (rake, ruby on rails) without updating ruby
[08:25] <jani> besides ruby in sid makes it easier to install since it is no longer scattered to so many poackages
[08:25] <jbailey> mxpxpod: I'm not actively working on it at the moment.  It doesn't segfault, which is an improvement over before, it's just slow.  Did I miss something else?
[08:25] <mxpxpod> jbailey: that's about it
[08:26] <mxpxpod> jbailey: it's really jittery
[08:26] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Yeah, it's because it's doing it all without any altivec instructions.
[08:26] <mxpxpod> jbailey: oh, that's nice ;)
[08:28] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Since I don't know any altivec assembler, I tossed it into the "things to care about for breezy" bucket. (Bug #8007)
[08:28] <mxpxpod> jbailey: breezy?
[08:28] <jbailey> mxpxpod: The release after Hoary.
[08:28] <mxpxpod> I thought it was grumpy after hoary
[08:28] <dholbach> mxpxpod: Sneezy-1
[08:28] <dholbach> ;-)
[08:28] <Kamion> mxpxpod: it changed
[08:29] <mxpxpod> ah, ok
[08:29] <Kamion> and ubuntu-announce got mail
[08:29] <jbailey> mxpxpod: I think the name change was a side effect of WEsley Crusher saving the multiverse too many times.  I have no explanation beyond that.
[08:30] <fabbione> Kamion: 8287 unreproducible here :(
[08:30] <dholbach> jbailey: *snigger*
[08:30] <Kamion> fabbione: doesn't surprise me too much
[08:30] <fabbione> Kamion: yeah
[08:30] <jani> mdz, so no change to ruby before RC means no change before release either?So I know if I should look at the issue
[08:31] <Kamion> ok, cdimage release publishing should go faster now
[08:31] <mdz> jani: it depends on which packages in main depend on it
[08:31] <jani> elmo said swig and redland
[08:31] <mdz> if those two are regression-tested with the new version, we _might_ be able to update it, but it makes me uncomfortable
[08:32] <mdz> if it's just to get a stable release and not to fix specific bugs, I'd prefer not to sync it
[08:32] <Kamion> we did have complaints about the ruby split-o-matic packaging
[08:32] <Kamion> somebody was pushing for an Ubuntu repackaging
[08:34] <Guilmon> Kamion: the ruby split packaging is stupid, I concur
[08:34] <jani> mdz, no specific bugs I have been bitten by but the changelog lists a lot of them.
[08:34] <jani> Kamion, debioan unstable already improved on the situation
[08:35] <jani> there are less packages now some were merged in libruby
[08:35] <Guilmon> Kamion: I try to use ruby's network library, I don't expect downloading seperate libs.
[08:35] <Guilmon> mdz: where are the source files for the GNOME startup picture?
[08:35] <Kamion> jani: yes, I know
[08:35] <jani> no need for ubuntu repackaging the debian-ruby people seem to be in it
[08:35] <Kamion> I read the changelog
[08:35] <jani> Kamion, ok :)
[08:35] <Guilmon> It would be nice if ther was a Ruby-devel monthly snapshot
[08:36] <Guilmon> Matz adds really nice features between releases
[08:36] <Guilmon> there are tar gzips on the ruby site daily fyi
[08:36] <jani> my main reason fror syncig would be that some apps not in ubuntu but in sid depend on versions of ruby >1.8.2
[08:36] <Guilmon> 1.8.2p2 is old ;)
[08:36] <mdz> Guilmon: ubuntu-artwork
[08:37] <Guilmon> mdz: it has source, or just the destination file?
[08:37] <mdz> Guilmon: ?
[08:37] <Guilmon> mdz: is it jpg or gimp source?
[08:37] <mdz> ubuntu-artwork is the source package which builds the ubuntu-artwork binary package
[08:37] <mdz> Guilmon: it is neither; I believe it is a PNG
[08:37] <Guilmon> oh.
[08:37] <Guilmon> mdz: who has the source?
[08:38] <mdz> I am not sure that anyone has it, why?
[08:38] <Guilmon> mdz: I'm assuming it was created from gimp or ps.
[08:38] <mdz> photoshop, I believe
[08:40] <HoMiE-[G] > hey
[08:40] <HoMiE-[G] > can someone help me ?
[08:40] <HoMiE-[G] > with pppoe ?
[08:41] <mdz> HoMiE-[G] : this channel is where we coordinate development work; for help ask on #ubuntu
[08:41] <dholbach> HoMiE-[G] : you know this is a #ubuntu question
[08:41] <HoMiE-[G] > yeah i know
[08:41] <HoMiE-[G] > but they wont help me :P
[08:41] <HoMiE-[G] > i ask and they dont answer
[08:41] <HoMiE-[G] > they said to set it up
[08:41] <HoMiE-[G] > its in gnome
[08:41] <schweeb> you're not gonna get much of a response in here either
[08:41] <mdz> be patient, or ask on the ubuntu-users mailing list
[08:41] <dholbach> HoMiE-[G] : try ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
[08:41] <HoMiE-[G] > but when i go into it dont see it
[08:42] <HoMiE-[G] > ok
[08:42] <HoMiE-[G] > then
[08:42] <HoMiE-[G] > sorry
[08:42] <ggi> Ho ho! - http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-March/006241.html
[08:44] <nohar> hi guys
[08:44] <seb128> mdz: so we are going with 2.10.1, nice :)
[08:52] <opi> Polish LoCo meeting in #ubuntu.pl, all people related, please join :-)
[08:53] <mdz> seb128: yes, per sabdfl
[08:53] <seb128> k
[09:00] <mdz> lamont: ping when xorg 6.8.2-7 is uploaded, please
[09:02] <Seveas> mdz, it's been sent out to hoary-changes...
[09:02] <pitti> hmm, no meeting now?
[09:02] <pitti> darn, daylight saving...
[09:02] <dholbach> pitti: changed - i heard about it 3-4 hours ago
[09:02] <dholbach> pitti: i changed it on wiki/Calendar as well
[09:02] <Kamion> Seveas: that's source upload, mdz's asking about binary upload
[09:02] <pitti> but it's still 20:00 UTC?
[09:03] <Seveas> i see
[09:03] <dholbach> pitti: that's how mdz changed it on wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[09:03] <pitti> yeah, I didn't take daylight saving into account...
[09:03] <shaya> thom: you here?
[09:07] <Keybuk> pitti: it's currently 1907UTC, meeting in one hour :)
[09:08] <pitti> Keybuk: yeah, I just noticed :-)
[09:08] <zul> pitti: date --utc usually works ;)
[09:08] <dholbach> Keybuk: what about: The next meeting of the Board will be on: Tuesday 12 April 2005 at 2000 UTC   ?
[09:09] <dholbach> Keybuk: no wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda?
[09:09] <dholbach> s/no/on
[09:09] <Keybuk> dholbach: no agenda, I guess; I last checked more than 2 hours ago
[09:10] <dholbach> hm ok
[09:12] <pitti> lamont: ping
[09:12] <lamont> pitti: ack
[09:12] <pitti> lamont: I just tried to build new langpacks
[09:12] <pitti> lamont: and noticed that nautilus-sendto_0.3-0ubuntu6_translations.tar.gz has an ancient format
[09:13] <pitti> lamont: i. e. from a very old pkgstriptranslations version
[09:13] <pitti> lamont: is that possible somehow?
[09:13] <lamont> pitti: hrm... checking
[09:13] <pitti> lamont: I repack the tarball manually
[09:14] <pitti> lamont: nautilus-sendto_0.3-0ubuntu6_translations.tar.gz.old is the tarball that was created originally
[09:14] <lamont> pitti: uh, yeah./
[09:14] <lamont> fxied, and yes, nautilus-sendto was built on the buildd in question
[09:14] <pitti> lamont: thanks
[09:15] <pitti> lamont: does that affect other builds as well?
[09:15] <pitti> lamont: nevermind, my script will find out... :-)
[09:15] <lamont> there were about 4
[09:15] <lamont> which, depending on order, may or may not be affected.
[09:15] <pitti> lamont: okay, that's a manageable number for manual repacking
[09:15] <smurfix> mdz: 
[09:16] <lamont> oo.o-amd64, kubuntu-meta
[09:16] <carlos> mvo: around?
[09:16] <mvo> carlos: yes, but I'm preparing dinner :) 
[09:16] <mvo> carlos: that is, I wanted to leave for dinner now. is it urgent?
[09:17] <carlos> mvo: not really
[09:17] <carlos> mvo: will talk tomorrow if I'm not around when you are back
[09:20] <mvo> carlos: what is it about ? rosetta?
[09:25] <tritium> Hmm, I see a nick highlight for me, but it's beyond my scrollback.
[09:26] <thom> shaya: yeah?
[09:26] <thom> tritium: you don't have anything as useful as /lastlog -hilight?
[09:26] <tritium> thom, I'll try :)
[09:27] <tritium> thom, learned something new
[09:27] <shaya> thom: you recently put a rtl patch into firefox? is that Simon Monatgu's from bugzilla?
[09:27] <thom> shaya: yes
[09:27] <shaya> ok, it fixes the rtl issues w/ pango, but not the combining characters
[09:27] <shaya> still screws up horribly on rtl text w/ combining characters (i.e. hebrew w/ vowels)
[09:27] <shaya> I'll bug him about that
[09:28] <shaya> just wanted to know what the story was before I bugged him
[09:28] <thom> shaya: ok; yeah, please do - i know next to nothing about international font madness :-)
[09:28] <thom> it's his patch unchangeds
[09:30] <shaya> no problem.  doesn't really effect me except for a bible site that has the text in hebrew and refuses to remove the justified attribute
[09:30] <shaya> as normally moz+pango works fine with hebrew+vowels, except if you justify the text
[09:30] <shaya> then it just falls down horribly
[09:31] <shaya> but email's sent
[09:35] <TD> hello. is there any way to programmatically determine that an ubuntu-style sudo/disabled-root system is in use?
[09:35] <pitti> seb128, Kamion: langpack updates are ready for upload. Okay to go?
[09:37] <mdz> smurfix: regarding the problem of non-latin keymaps where people can't login
[09:37] <mdz> smurfix: is there a way to find all of those semi-automatically so that we can fix them in one batch?  users continue to report new examples
[09:37] <TD> (without detecting ubuntu specifically, obviously)
[09:39] <smurfix> mdz: Hmm, let me look at it a bit
[09:39] <thom> TD: root passwd as * or ! would be a good guess (here is a better place)
[09:40] <mdz> TD: sudo lets you query it for this information, but authentication is required
[09:41] <mdz> TD: what is the specific problem you need to solve?
[09:42] <TD> hmmm, yes, need to know without authentication really
[09:42] <TD> essentially when running something as root, how to know whether to ask the user for the root password or their own password
[09:42] <TD> when providing a custom authentication gui
[09:45] <fabbione> mdz: -7 is go on all arches
[09:45] <mdz> fabbione: only amd64 and i386 are in the archive so far, waiting for powerpc
[09:45] <fabbione> mdz: ok, it should enter within 20 minutes
[09:45] <mdz> it's in accepted/
[09:47] <fabbione> yeah but daily runs at :03 and :33
[09:47] <fabbione> so approx 20 before it hits the archive
[09:48] <mdz> yep
[09:49] <pitti> seb128, Kamion: okay, I'll upload now since I didn't hear any objections :-)
[09:50] <smurfix> mdz: The list is: am ar bg by dz el il ir iu jp lo mk ml mm mn ru th tj ua uz 
[09:51] <mdz> smurfix: so far the solution has been to use "us,<foo>" as the X keymap
[09:51] <mdz> smurfix: should we do that for all of those?
[09:51] <smurfix> mdz: That does look like the most-correct solution
[09:51] <mdz> el, ru and one other have been reported as bugs
[09:52] <seb128> pitti: fine with me
[09:54] <TD> thom: how do you mean. ubuntu disables root by setting the password to * or ! ? that doesn't sound quite right ...
[09:54] <lamont> mdz: ppc xorg missed the last cron.daily by 4 minutes...  will hit this next time around (:03)
[09:54] <lamont> but you know that
[09:55] <mdz> TD: not the password, but the encrypted password field in the shadow database
[09:56] <mdz> TD: which obviously requires root
[09:56] <mdz> I think the best you can do is to make it a configurable setting
[09:56] <mdz> indeed, the two methods are not mutually exclusive; they can both be in use on the same systems
[09:56] <mdz> and a different method needed depending on which user is authenticating
[09:57] <mdz> some users in sudo, others using the root password
[09:57] <TD> ah i see
[09:57] <smurfix> mdz: Unless somebody from $LOCALE tells us otherwise, lets do it that way. One or two of them might have a non-US basic layout but I don't have any way to check for that.
[09:57] <TD> hmmm
[10:00] <smurfix> mdz: Ah, there's a more comprehensive list in /etc/X11/xkb/rules/xorg; grep for "nonlatin"
[10:01] <smurfix> mdz: it's commented out, so *possibly* the fix is to just remove the comment markers
[10:02] <smurfix> mdz: if that works (dunno how well-tested it is) that'd let us avoid the workaround at xorg.conf generation time
[10:03] <mjt> mdz: where's that bug re el, ru layout?
[10:04] <mjt> (i'm using ru here... ;)
[10:04] <mdz> mjt: #7656, #8202
[10:04] <ogra> mdz no meeting today ?
[10:04] <mdz> ogra: no meeting today, and no meeting next week (due to the release)
[10:04] <ogra> (because -meeting is crowded)
[10:05] <mdz> is the topic stale?
[10:05] <ogra> including sabdfl
[10:05] <ogra> nope, dholbach removed it
[10:05] <mdz> ok then
[10:05] <sabdfl> ah
[10:06] <fabbione> who canceled the meeting?
[10:07] <fabbione> i need somebody to throw in the same room with my wife while she boils down
[10:07] <zul> hehe
[10:09] <fabbione> good night
[10:10] <mjt> well, selecting just 'ru' w/o 'us' is indeed a bug ;)
[10:10] <mjt> ditto for el and other non-latin layouts/languages
[10:11] <TD> does ubuntu hoary still install the lsb package by default?
[10:11] <pitti> night fabbione 
[10:11] <zul> night fabbione 
[10:13] <mjt> for "ru" there should really be 2 choices: "en,ru" and "en,ru(winkeys)" (expect more bugs if that isn't done ;) -- the former comes from old typewriters, the latter has been "invented" by M$ and is far more suitable for a computer; there are both types of keyboards out there
[10:14] <mjt> m$ defaults to the equivalent of "ru(winkeys),en" 
[10:16] <lamont> mdz: so does this mean yet newer CD images with xorg -7?
[10:17] <zyga> TD: hey
[10:17] <zyga> TD: do you want to customize your password dialog for ubuntu?
[10:18] <TD> yeah. well, no. not really. i'd like to detect when sudo is available and use that, as asking the user for their own password is better ui than asking for the root password imho
[10:18] <TD> but it's looking like we'll just special case for ubuntu and live with sucking :)
[10:18] <zyga> TD: that's a bad idea
[10:19] <smurfix> mjt: gdm doesn't have a keyboard layout widget (yet?), so we need to start off with US layout (for now?)
[10:19] <TD> yeah. it's not great. but it beats asking the user for a root password they don't have
[10:19] <lamont> TD: ubuntu-desktop Depends: lsb
[10:19] <mvo> Kamion, mdz: permission to upload libgksu: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/review/libgksu/libgksu1.2_1.2.5a-1ubuntu2.debdiff ? suppresses a bogus message, talked to kov (upstream) about it and he agrees with it
[10:19] <TD> lamont: thanks, i had a vague feeling it'd been removed but i guess not
[10:19] <zyga> TD: why don't you add a checkbox 'I don't have root pasword, use sudo instead'
[10:19] <lamont> TD: plan is for breezy to remove it
[10:19] <TD> ah
[10:19] <TD> that'd be why i had the vague feeling
[10:20] <lamont> since lsb Depends: mail-transport-agent, and that's going away from base
[10:20] <TD> zyga: we already have a "No password" button for when you don't have superuser access at all. And I don't want to put the term "sudo" in the UI
[10:20] <TD> sudo isn't a word that's meaningful to end users, generally
[10:20] <TD> one alternative is to ask the user for the "System access password" and then try both su and sudo
[10:20] <zyga> BTW: why gdm by default (with ubuntu skin) has no way to do a remode xdcmp login?
[10:20] <lamont> my first project for breezy is to free my baby (postfix) from the base-chains that bind it
[10:21] <zyga> TD: that would be usble :-)
[10:21] <lamont> TD: you could try su, and then fail back to sudo, or vice versa
[10:21] <zyga> TD: I guess probing is the simples way
[10:21] <TD> yeah, that's what we are thinking
[10:21] <lamont> or assume that executable /usr/bin/sudo + /etc/sudoers ==> sudo for root...
[10:21] <TD> or rather try sudo then su. problem is sudo generates scary errors and warnings sometimes. like the "lecture" :)
[10:21] <lamont> but that's probably not wise.. (the assumption)
[10:21] <lamont> lecture is disabled on ubuntu
[10:21] <TD> and if you get it wrong it sends an email to root
[10:21] <TD> heh, good :) it's not disabled everywhere though
[10:22] <lamont> yeah.
[10:22] <lamont> hence su then sudo might be better...
[10:22] <lamont> or have a config option that says what order (and whether) to try
[10:22] <lamont> root_access: sudo, su
[10:22] <zyga> lamont: that's not really useful - TD is trying to make autopackage compatible with ubuntu
[10:22] <TD> yes, su then sudo may work better. i'd avoid a config option
[10:22] <TD> this is supposed to just work dammit :)
[10:23] <lamont> well, packaging for ubuntu vs debian could be different (diff defaults, etc.)
[10:23] <zyga> TD: how about system specific config file
[10:23] <zyga> TD: /etc/autopackage.specs
[10:23] <zyga> TD: if it's there read it and know better
[10:23] <TD> zyga: that's just a variant of "detect ubuntu" which is why i was asking about the lsb package
[10:23] <TD> i'd rather not do that if possible. using sudo instead of root password is a pretty good idea
[10:24] <zyga> TD: Ubuntu could just have that tiny package in ubuntu-base stuff
[10:24] <TD> it would not surprise me if other distros copied it
[10:24] <TD> zyga: well that was just being discussed on the mailing list, and i don't think it's going to happen anytime soon
[10:24] <zyga> TD: true 
[10:24] <zyga> TD: not adding the whole autopackage stuff
[10:24] <zyga> TD: just one small specs file
[10:24] <zyga> TD: try asking again
[10:24] <TD> well, the objection isn't that autopackage is too big. it's that it's the wrong approach entirely
[10:25] <TD> so i doubt the base/desktop maintainers would be more amenable to that. anyway we can already detect ubuntu
[10:25] <zyga> TD: well then you're stuck between the hammer and the anvil ;] 
[10:25] <TD> yeah ;)
[10:25] <zyga> TD: anyway you could try asking again
[10:26] <zyga> cat /etc/autopackage.specs
[10:26] <zyga> sudo
[10:26] <zyga> ... that's it
[10:26] <TD> we'll figure something out. anyway, i think that's enough for today. TV time :) i'll be around later, but all my questions are answered now
[10:43] <mdz> mvo: hmm
[10:43] <mdz> lamont: yes, it does
[10:44] <mdz> CDs building now
[10:44] <lamont> rsync just about done now.. :0)
[10:45] <mvo> mdz: if you have doubts, we can postpone it (or leave it as it is). it's only a cosmetic problem, gksu sometimes gives spurious warning-messagesboxes because it don't always get the interaction with sudo right
[10:46] <lamont> mdz: holler when they're done, eh?
[10:47] <lamont> reminds me.. .parent teacher conferences the next 2 days... ISTR bonnie's is on the 31st.
[10:48] <koke> elmo: I don't want to be tiresome, but what happened to my key? I've already a package for upload :)
[10:49] <pitti> fabbione: new CAN
[10:49] <pitti> oh, he's asleep
[10:51] <zul> pitti: gah...more? :)
[10:51] <pitti> zul: no, just a CAN for an already fixed one
[10:52] <pitti> zul: can you add it to the changelog, too?
[10:52] <zul> i can put it my archive and tell fabbione to pull from it
[10:53] <pitti> zul: I mail him
[10:59] <mdz> lamont: install CD builds and cloop builds are in progress
[10:59] <mdz> I'll start live CD builds when both are done
[11:00] <lamont> woot
[11:00] <lamont> mdz: with jido?
[11:00] <lamont> jigdo, even
[11:01] <mdz> no
[11:01] <mdz> jigdo takes an extra hour
[11:02] <Kamion> no it doesn't
[11:03] <Kamion> it's certainly slower but it isn't an extra hour
[11:03] <Kamion> I'll see if I can rope Steve McIntyre in post-hoary to help me switch to JTE
[11:04] <mdz> Kamion: doing the jigdo post-publish would be sufficient for our purposes, I think
[11:05] <mdz> new install CDs are syncing
[11:05] <mdz> Kamion: I'm going to run to the store for food; can you coordinate with lamont to get a new live build started when the cloops are ready?
[11:06] <elmo>  [TXT]   hoary_probs.html        29-Mar-2005 21:37  242
[11:06] <elmo> yay!
[11:06] <elmo> now if only breezy would stay that way ;-P
[11:06] <lamont> elmo: heh
[11:07] <Mithrandir> lamont: still no ooo-amd64? :/
[11:07] <lamont> Mithrandir: should be there by now... grumble.
[11:07] <Kamion> mdz: post-publish> if you don't mind not being able to build CDs until the jigdo's done, that would certainly be possible; though it'd require some kind of republishing step
[11:07] <Kamion> mdz: yep
[11:07] <schweeb> lamont: heh, rephrase that, or you'll sound like a paedophile ;)
[11:08] <Mithrandir> lamont: doesn't look like that.
[11:08] <mdz> elmo: anastacia output is looking good too, finally
[11:09] <elmo> mdz: I know! no more db4.0! *dance*
[11:09] <elmo> we should do this release thing more often ;)
[11:10] <Mithrandir> elmo: did you hear my sick, sick thing I thought of at FOSDEM?  (wrt libdb)
[11:10] <Mithrandir> we could just make a binary-compatible alternate library which used sqlite as the backend.
[11:12] <Mithrandir> it'd be broken, but in alternate ways. ;)
[11:19] <schweeb> elmo: dunno if you're the one to talk to, and I don't really care much, but gsf-sharp never got announced to hoary-changes, even though it's in the archive, and I got my notify emails... just figured you'd want a bugreport on your emailer tool
[11:20] <elmo> Subject: Accepted gsf-sharp 0.3+svn20050320-1 (source)
[11:20] <elmo> schweeb: that?
[11:20] <schweeb> yea
[11:21] <schweeb> hrm, I don't see it on the changes archive
[11:21] <elmo> it got sent - hoary-changes suffers from overly fascist spam filtering
[11:21] <schweeb> ahh
[11:21] <elmo> 'cos our mailman setup is to damn dumb to be able to do innovative cutting edge filtering like, err, filtering on a given header
[11:21] <schweeb> alright then, all is good :D
[11:22] <crimsun> schweeb: (don't worry, none of mine are announced either)
[11:22] <schweeb> lol
[11:22] <elmo> crimsun: that's the Maintainer field, you could avoid that
[11:22] <crimsun> elmo: yeah, I stripped '.'
[11:22] <crimsun> elmo: also tried quoting it
[11:23] <crimsun> (ogra let me know)
[11:23] <schweeb> elmo: should I change the package to not build on amd64 and ia64, as they don't have mono packages, or would that be on your end?
[11:23] <elmo> but in any event, end-of-day, we should just beg/bribe tollef to fix our mailman to filter on X-Katie, and have jdub not apply our spam filters to hoary-changes
[11:24] <elmo> schweeb: I'd just leave it - it doesn't do any harm for them to not build, and hopefully amd64 at least will get mono eventually, and this way you won't have to change your package when it does
[11:24] <schweeb> that's what I figured
[11:25] <mdz> Kamion: ubuntu cloops are done, kubuntu in progress, I'll start cron.daily-live
[11:26] <mdz> scratch that, only one is done
[11:28] <lamont> mdz: was just considering whether to say that i386 was done.
[11:28] <lamont> amd64 is compressing, ppc is rsyncing-to-loop
[11:30] <Kamion> mdz: yeah, was watching the i386 cloop and had just noticed ...
[11:35] <lamont> ad64 done
[11:35] <lamont> ppc still restoring image
[11:39] <lamont> ppc is [ 9]  Block#   378 size  65536 ->  34803 [compression ratio  53%, overall:  34%] 
[11:40] <koke> elmo: did mako sent you my key? I'm not sure who I have to ping
[11:41] <elmo> koke: hmm, no, you're not in mako's list yet
[11:42] <koke> ouch!
[11:42] <elmo> I'll send him a mail
[11:42] <koke> elmo: thanks anyway
[11:43] <seb128> haggai: around ?
[11:44] <lamont> Kamion: over 3/4 done compressing
[11:48] <lamont> Kamion: ubuntu cloops are go
[11:49] <CarlK> hi folks
[11:50] <CarlK> Does anyone want to help me figure out why my e-machine box keeps "stoping" (but not locking) durring a daily install?
[11:50] <lamont> CarlK: that'd be a #ubuntu question
[11:50] <CarlK> even on the same install image, it is never the same place that it stalls, and most of the time I can get to a shell
[11:51] <Kamion> lamont: builds started
[11:52] <CarlK> lamont - I am just using it to test installs and report install bugs,
[11:52] <lamont> Kamion: kubuntu-live cloop will fail, I expect (kdepim)
[11:52] <CarlK> I was wondering if anyone here 
[11:53] <Kamion> lamont: that should be fixed now
[11:53] <CarlK> I was wondering if anyone "here" wanted to see if there was an install problem or if my box is just haunted
[11:53] <lamont> Kamion: yeah, but it's still building...
[11:53] <Kamion> CarlK: I'm inclined to think the latter, personally :)
[11:53] <Burgundavia> CarlK: why don't we debug on #ubuntu, and if it is a bug, then we can report it to bugzilla
[11:53] <Kamion> bugs with that kind of description are usually broken hardware ...
[11:53] <lamont> Kamion: ppc is still building, i386 will enter the archive in 9 minutes, and amd64 is there.
[11:54] <CarlK> Burgundavia - see ya there
[11:54] <lamont> kdesdk also needs to be built, amd64 is doing that now, the others are waiting for cron.daily to run
[11:54] <CarlK> Kamion - me too - I ran stresslinux for 12 hours and didn't have any problems
[11:55] <lamont> Kamion: so, yeah, it's fixed.  But the fix is still in-flight. 
[11:56] <lamont> Kamion: 2100UTC sound about right for the i386 install iso timestamp?
[11:56] <Kamion> lamont: yes, that's right
[11:57] <lamont> cool
[11:57] <lamont> ppc may have to wait for my return
[11:59] <lamont> if kdepim doesn't finish in time, I'll at-job the kdesdk thing to happen 30 min latyer
[12:00] <lamont> back in 5m ors
[12:00] <lamont> or so