[12:03] <andred> ogra, But how do you search for that even? "Memory: 512 MB" gives nothing. "512" gives nothing.
[12:03] <ogra> andred, have you read whats written below the search field ?
[12:04] <andred> ogra, Yes, but I don't have my ~/.hwdb left
[12:04] <andred> oh, so you can only search for the id? That doesn't sound like search:-)
[12:05] <ogra> thats only a better way of directory listing....theDB will be built after the release...
[12:06] <zenrox> a reasion to go on to the next devel ubuntu
[12:06] <ogra> the current usecase is to have a datasheet with logfiles attached for your system, so you just can attach the id to a bugrport or fro support to show your data to others...
[12:07] <ogra> ...later with a big SQL database we can do a lot more with the data
[12:08] <lamont> Mar 31 15:08:40 localhost imaplogin: /usr/lib/gamin/gam_server: error while loading shared libraries: libglib-2.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[12:09] <lamont> I hate it when we forget depends...
[12:09] <T-Bone> schweet
[12:09] <azeem_> glib should just be essential ;)
[12:11] <Jeeves_> Hey guys. Anyone here who reads mirrors@ubuntu.com?
[12:12] <seb128> lamont: hum ? how do we do that ? the shlibs should handle this one
[12:12] <lamont> seb128: nfc
[12:12] <seb128>  /usr/lib/gamin/gam_server ... it doesn't look in this dir ?
[12:12] <seb128> BTW that's a bug for jdub :p
[12:12] <lamont> yeah - I saw it was assgined to him
[12:13] <lamont> Package: gamin
[12:13] <lamont> Depends: libgamin0 (= 0.0.25-0ubuntu1)
[12:13] <lamont> is missing
[12:13] <seb128> yep, I've looked that too
[12:13] <lamont> 8471
[12:13] <seb128> I'll fix it know
[12:14] <seb128> not sure if jdub does packaging stuff these time
[12:14] <seb128> Depends: libgamin0 (= ${Source-Version})
[12:14] <seb128> roh, no shlibs
[12:15] <dholbach> (but i couldnt upload packages at that stage ;-))
[12:16] <dholbach> *wave lamont*
[12:16] <T-Bone> lamont: could you avg-pkg-build-time k3d on sarti please? I'm getting a bit worried
[12:22] <T-Bone> ogra: i've just been playing around with the hwdb client. It says my current video settings are 1280x1024@75Hz while my monitor is currently running @85Hz. Is that "normal"?
[12:23] <ogra> T-Bone, it reads the marked output from xrandr -q
[12:23] <T-Bone> ogra: which says "85"
[12:24] <T-Bone> ogra: should i fill a bug?
[12:24] <ogra> yep
[12:27] <T-Bone> this is what happens when you let firefox remembers everything for you :P
[12:40] <T-Bone> ogra: #8473, with a typo :P
[12:41] <pitti> hey seb128, why didn't I read " * Fixed all remaining bugs" in your recent gamin upload? :-)
[12:42] <seb128> I don't want to piss jdub
[12:42] <seb128> do you want to steal his nice bogs ? :)
[12:43] <jdub> go for it dude
[12:43] <pitti> seb128: hmm, #7078 is mine now, I got it reassigned :-/
[12:43] <jdub> no NMUs in ubuntu
[12:43] <ogra> T-Bone, thanks :=
[12:43] <ogra> :)
[12:44] <T-Bone> ogra: you're welcome :)
[12:44] <seb128> pitti: lucky you
[12:44] <seb128> pitti: I think that's because jdub is MIA
[12:45] <pitti> seb128: I still remember the polypaudio ppc bug
[12:45] <pitti> seb128: I spent about 5 hours to fix it, then it got dropped from Hoary
[12:45] <pitti> seb128: I hope that gamin won't have the same fate :-)
[12:45] <jdub> we're not going to drop gamin from hoary, even with this bug
[12:46] <seb128> jdub: is that the same for the g-a-i desktop files ? I don't like the political "will do today" you are serving for weeks ;/
[12:46] <seb128> jdub: I think we should ponder changing it ...
[12:47] <T-Bone> ogra: http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/?xml=bb81f0ba0c17d09675fec6a3e78b8f17
[12:48] <ogra> no swap !
[12:48] <T-Bone> no
[12:48] <ogra> oh, wanted ?
[12:48] <T-Bone> actually that box will have about 4GB RAM in the next few days
[12:48] <T-Bone> and yes that's wanted
[12:48] <ogra> ah, ok
[12:48] <T-Bone> Linux isn't the primary OS
[12:49] <T-Bone> ;}
[12:49] <T-Bone> (and no swap there either ;})
[12:50] <adobbie> T-Bone: primary? so you're running multiple OSes?
[12:51] <T-Bone> adobbie: sure
[12:51] <pitti> Night everybody!
[12:51] <adobbie> what ones?
[12:51] <dholbach> bye pitti 
[12:51] <T-Bone> cya pitti 
[12:52] <T-Bone> adobbie: OSX mainly, Ubuntu in 2nd and Gentoo64 for the fun of it, on that particular machine
[12:55] <adobbie> 4GB is very reasonable these days
[12:55] <ogra> oh yes, please waith till hoary...i get a lot of broken datasets from people using hwdb-client in debian or warty...
[12:55] <adobbie> if you can find cheap modules :)
[12:56] <T-Bone> ogra: hehe :)
[12:56] <T-Bone> adobbie: actually you'd better not use "too cheap" ones on such a machine
[12:57] <adobbie> that's true, you'd have to get ECC modules
[12:57] <adobbie> that jacks the price up
[12:58] <T-Bone> g5 doesn't need ECC memory
[12:58] <T-Bone> it just don't like bad chips
[12:59] <T-Bone> difference is that contrary to most PC BIOS, it will tell you straight ahead whether you tried to feed him with shitty modules
[12:59] <adobbie> you can stick 4GB of non-ECC into the machine?
[12:59] <T-Bone> you can stick 8GB of non ECC
[01:00] <T-Bone> (on that model)
[01:00] <T-Bone> Xserve eats 8GB with ECC
[01:02] <adobbie> I've yet to see an Intel/AMD box that'll let you stick that much non-ECC non-registered in it
[01:02] <adobbie> but it looks like I've got off-topic for the channel :)
[01:04] <T-Bone> adobbie: this is why Macs are so cool ;] 
[01:05] <adobbie> T-Bone: Intel/AMD is generic
[01:05] <adobbie> it's not cool but for a little money you can get a lot
[01:05] <T-Bone> i guess that's a synonym for 'crap' ;] 
[01:06] <adobbie> yeah, AMD suckz!
[01:08] <adobbie> but dual-core has me interested
[01:08] <adobbie> I hope they make affordable CPUs
[01:09] <T-Bone> heh
[01:11] <mdke> ping jdub 
[01:11] <jdub> mdke: pong
[01:12] <mdke> quick word?
[01:12] <jdub> yeah
[01:12] <jdub> just replied to your email, btw
[01:12] <mdke> oh no need then
[01:12] <mdke> send/receive all
[01:13] <mdke> jdub, thanks for that
[01:13] <mdke> jdub, it disturbs me slightly turning it on after only 18 users have expressed a view (12/6)
[01:14] <mdke> what do you think?
[01:15] <|QuaD-> is there any chance to see an updated mono in hoary?
[01:16] <jdub> |QuaD-: tseng is looking into it, see ubuntu-devel
[01:16] <tseng> im working on it right now
[01:17] <jdub> mdke: personally, i think munging reply-to is a horribly bad idea
[01:17] <jdub> tseng: woo!
[01:17] <mdke> jdub, me too
[01:17] <|QuaD-> tseng: do you have an eta?
[01:17] <tseng> no?
[01:17] <|QuaD-> tseng: ok thanks
[01:17] <mdke> jdub, but i feel under pressure from this "majority vote"
[01:17] <tseng> when im finsished, ill be sure to not keep it a secret.
[01:17] <tseng> its not a promise for hoary, we have a few more days left
[01:17] <|QuaD-> tseng: haha, yeah, i jsut need to make a simple app, and i would prefer to use winforms
[01:17] <seb128> elmo: loudmouth sync please 
[01:18] <tseng> cheer on my pbuilder
[01:18] <|QuaD-> tseng: :)
[01:20] <dholbach> pals... i'm off to bed - good night
[01:20] <mdke> bye dholbach 
[01:20] <mdke> sleep well
[01:20] <dholbach> bye mdke, thanks, you too :-)
[01:28] <mdke> jdub, have sent you a /query with my _last_ question (promise)
[01:36] <Riddell> jdub: did you have any thoughts about moving ubuntu mouse curors out to their own package?
[02:21] <jdub> Riddell: hrm
[02:22] <jdub> Riddell: you want to use them in kde?
[02:22] <Riddell> jdub: thought it would be a nice touch
[02:22] <jdub> yeah
[02:22] <jdub> hrmn
[02:22] <jdub> and you don't install ubuntu-artwork?
[02:22] <Riddell> Depends: gtk2-engines-clearlooks
[02:22] <Riddell> brings in gtk
[02:23] <jdub> oh, i thought you shipped some of that for the admin tools
[02:23] <jdub> ok
[02:23] <Riddell> we're trying not to
[02:27] <jdub> Riddell: hrm
[02:28] <jdub> Riddell: so it seems a bit whack to do this so late, but i agree that it's desireable
[02:28] <dts> i'm writing a script and I want to have it load up synaptics and install a certain package in case it doesn't exist, how did you do that with the time and date tool?
[02:28] <jdub> Riddell: how about shipping the cursor theme with kubuntu-artwork?
[02:28] <jdub> Riddell: i had to shift it from the industrial theme package to ubuntu-artwork because it was removed upstream
[02:29] <Riddell> jdub: that's the other possibility, seems inelegant but would work fine short term
[02:29] <jdub> Riddell: you can easily copy the postinst/prerm from ubuntu-artwork for that
[02:29] <jdub> Riddell: yeah, sucks a bit, but safer for nwo
[02:30] <Riddell> ok, I'll try that
[02:31] <diamond> mdz: hey. submitter of bug 8476 here. sorry if i chose the wrong severity, was just trying to go by what the guidelines said, tho i know it's probably a corner case
[02:32] <mdz> diamond: if I find out where to configure the descriptions, one day I'll make them better
[02:32] <diamond> mdz: hehe, k
[02:32] <mdz> we're using bugzilla in a much different way than most projects
[02:33] <diamond> mdz: can't just change page.cgi?id=fields.html#bug_severity then?
[02:35] <diamond> mdz: as a vague niceity, it might be good if the emails had ubuntu somewhere in the subject: so they stand out as such (i.e. i have a fair number of mails from bugzilla from various projects, '[Bug 8476]  etc..' isn't very findable, but i understand if now is not the time ,-)
[02:35] <mdz> diamond: that one is definitely toward the bottom of the todo list
[02:35] <diamond> s/isn't/) isn't/
[02:35] <diamond> mdz: fair enough -)
[02:41] <tseng> erm, bugzilla does that for every project im involved with afaik
[02:41] <tseng> I use procmail.
[02:46] <CarlK> I am trying to test out the nvida drivers and got an error just trying to install the base system - posiblly becase of nvidia-kernel-common
[02:50] <netdur> hey, firefox shows flash from another tab, here a screenshot http://www.arab7.com/up/file/1112316116365.jpg
[02:50] <netdur> because bugzilla doesn't like me, someone should report it there
[02:53] <mdke> netdur, difficult for us to report it, we can't test.
[02:53] <mdke> netdur, you should report it :)
[03:08] <infinity> mdz : pong.
[03:09] <mdz> infinity: fixed it already
[03:09] <infinity> Oh.  unpong, then.
[03:09] <infinity> (What was it?)
[03:10] <mdz> infinity: php4 depends: libapache-mod-php4
[03:10] <mdz> needed to be libapache2-mod-php4
[03:10] <infinity> That's correct.  It's an OR dep.
[03:10] <mdz> it was an OR dep in the wrong order
[03:11] <infinity> Warty users could have php4 installed, which in warty IS libapache-mod-php4.
[03:11] <infinity> So, for them upgrading, it should pull in the right package.
[03:11] <infinity> For new users of main only, it would pull in libapache2.
[03:11] <infinity> For new users of main+universe, it would pull in the apache1.3 module, but that's the only "wrong" case.
[03:12] <infinity> It was done in that order specifically for the upgrade case.
[03:17] <infinity> (I was planning on reversing the order for Sarge+1/Hoary+1, when the php4->libapache-mod-php4 upgrade case was less of an issue)
[03:21] <infinity> Also, good morning.
[03:22] <mdz> infinity: it caused germinate to make the wrong choice, and it would also cause new installations to get the wrong packagae if universe were enabled
[03:23] <infinity> Hrm.  Not sure about the germinate issue, but the latter issue is sort of a tradeoff, I guess.
[03:24] <infinity> People upgrading from warty to hoary will now have apache2 forcefully installed for them where they had apache1.3+php4 before.
[03:24] <infinity> (And no, my packages don't make this new, this has been there since 4.3.9..)
[03:25] <infinity> Perhaps there's some value in the forced apache transition (I certainly prefer supporting apache2), but it doesn't seem terribly friendly.
[03:45] <thierry_> I get open /dev/[sound/] dsp: Device or resource busy while opennning a game
[03:45] <thierry_> what could I do?
[03:46] <Keybuk> can the game be taught to use esd as an output medium?
[03:46] <thierry_> don't know
[03:47] <thierry_> this happens with chromium
[03:47] <thierry_> and some other random games
[03:47] <Keybuk> otherwise kill esd, and log out/in again once done to get sounds back
[03:47] <diamond> thierry_: fuser /dev/sound/dsp?
[03:47] <thierry_> but my sounds work with anything else
[03:48] <thierry_> t@modemcable075:~ $ fuser /dev/sound/dsp
[03:48] <thierry_> /dev/sound/dsp: No such file or directory
[03:48] <thierry_> I think it's because there's just no directory of that name
[03:49] <elmo> Keybuk: eh, you can just restart esd rather than logging in/out, can't you?
[03:49] <daniels> i thought esd got started opportunistically
[03:49] <Keybuk> elmo: doesn't ever seem to work for me
[03:49] <Keybuk> everything ignores the new esd
[03:49] <daniels> rhythmbox (through gstreamer) seems to kick it into life if it's not running
[03:50] <Keybuk> thierry_: /dev/dsp
[03:50] <thierry_> t@modemcable075:~ $ cd /dev/dsp
[03:50] <thierry_> bash: cd: /dev/dsp: Not a directory
[03:51] <Keybuk> (esd probably has /dev/snd/pcm* open as well)
[03:51] <Keybuk> and opening /dev/snd/pcm* makes /dev/dsp busy too
[03:51] <thierry_> yeah there's a dsp file in /dev
[03:51] <thierry_> it's just not a directory
[03:51] <Keybuk> why did you think it was a directory?
[03:52] <diamond> thierry_: try 'fuser /dev/dsp' then
[03:52] <Keybuk> it's not a file either
[03:52] <thierry_> don't know
[03:52] <Keybuk> it's a character device
[03:52] <Keybuk> fuser /dev/dsp /dev/snd/pcm*p
[03:52] <Keybuk> that'll reveal what has it locked
[03:52] <Keybuk> (and it'll be esd :p)
[03:53] <thierry_> wow! with 'fuser /dev/dsp' , sounds work perfectly
[03:53] <thierry_> now what should I do to make it work everytime?
[03:53] <Keybuk> fuser -k ?  or just fuser itself?
[03:54] <thierry_> just fuser
[03:54] <Keybuk> esd probably just closed the file because it hasn't played a drum-hit in a few minutes
[03:54] <Keybuk> it has a timeout
[03:55] <Keybuk> you could wrap the game with "esdctl off; game; esdctl on"
[03:58] <jdub> oh man
[03:58] <jdub> http://lists.progeny.com/archive/cl-workers/200501/msg00026.html
[03:59] <Keybuk> nice idea, WHAT THE FLYING FUCK at the implementation ... :p
[03:59] <Keybuk> wouldn't adding the user to the plugdev group be the right solution, not chown pmount!
[03:59] <jdub> Keybuk: can't revoke until recently
[04:00] <Keybuk> isn't the point that if you log in on the console, there's no need to revoke?
[04:00] <elmo> OH DEAR GOD
[04:00] <elmo> that's so freaking STUPID
[04:01] <jdub> Keybuk: you might keep the file open if you log in via gdm, etc.
[04:02] <jdub> but given that we can revoke now, i think we should look at some of the consolehelper stuff
[04:02] <Lathiat> oh man :P
[04:02] <Keybuk> jdub: yeah, but what's the security issue of that?  you were granted privilege, you could attack then or later, it doesn't really matter
[04:02] <Keybuk> same applies for the "setgid shell" theory ... sure, you can leave yourself one to use it later, or you could do what you were going to do when you had privelege; there's no difference
[04:02] <jdub> oddly enough, see the pam_group thread on ubuntu-devel
[04:03] <dredg> plugdev comes up here: http://lists.progeny.com/archive/cl-workers/200501/msg00000.html
[04:03] <Keybuk> jdub: btw, kernelplanet.org
[04:03] <jdub> Keybuk: yeah
[04:09] <diamond> that pmount thing sounds very like what fedora do for /dev entries
[04:11] <dredg> diamond: it, hotplug and gnome-volume-manager work very well with my iriver :)
[04:11] <diamond> dredg: speaking of, um, stuff, you set up apt-proxy yet?
[04:12] <dredg> diamond: no. feeling lazy
[04:12] <diamond> dredg: i'd let you use mine, but i reckon that wouldn't help the situation -)
[04:13] <dredg> diamond: does apt-proxy do ipv6?
[04:13] <diamond> dredg: good question, i don't know
[04:14] <dredg> it would appear not
[04:38] <infinity> mdz : So, the final verdict on the php4 metpackage thing is that we care more about new installations getting apache2 than we do about upgrades requiring manual intervention?
[04:38] <infinity> mdz : Not that I much care one way or the other.  Just means fielding bug reports or user confusion reports for a while.
[04:39] <elmo> infinity: eh?
[04:39] <elmo> Depends: libapache2-mod-php4 (>= 4:4.3.10-10ubuntu3) | libapache-mod-php4 
[04:39] <elmo> why will that require manual intervention?
[04:41] <infinity> elmo : In warty, 'php4' is the apache1.3 module.
[04:41] <Keybuk> jbailey: ping?
[04:41] <infinity> elmo : The dependency was in the reverse order specifically to DTRT when people with the old "php4" package installed upgrade from woody/warty to sarge/hoary.
[04:41] <elmo> ok, but if you're upgrading and already have apache1.3 installed, I'm struggling to believe apt/synaptic/whatever is going to rip it out because the order of that or'ed dep
[04:42] <infinity> elmo : It won't remove apache1.3, but it will install apache2 (they don't conflict), and remove apache1.3's PHP support.
[04:42] <infinity> elmo : As you'll be replacing "php4" (the apache1.3 module) with "php4 (an empty package) + libapache2-mod-php4 (php4 for apache2)"
[04:43] <elmo> meh, I don't know why we go to the bother of supporting such odd ball configs such as running apache1 and 2 concurrently
[04:43] <infinity> To make my life easier when testing them both? ;)
[04:43] <elmo> infinity: sucks, but it's still TRTD, 'cos we really are running screaming from apache1
[04:43] <infinity> I'm sure someone could come up with more compelling arguments, but whatever.
[04:43] <daniels> elmo: the usecase for a while was you wanted to run php4, but you ddin't want a1 for everything
[04:44] <daniels> also, fd.o ran the main site on a1 and svn on a2 for ages
[04:44] <infinity> elmo : Fair enough.  I'm more than happy to tell confused users "just upgrade to apache2, this is a not-so-subtle hint".
[04:44] <daniels> (this one went back to the days when a2 would just fall over when you poked it)
[04:44] <infinity> Interestingly enough, some crazy libc+php4+apache crashes only happen with apache1.3, not apache2, so I'm more than happy to scrap apache1.3
[04:45] <infinity> Sure, the real bug is in glibc, but only apache1.3 can tickle it, as far as I've seen.
[04:45] <dredg> nn all
[04:52] <infinity> elmo : Well, with any luck, the broken corner case is a small enough use scenario that no one will much care.  I'm happy leaving it as-is, just wanted to hash out the issues (on both sides of the problematic fence)
[05:16] <fabbione> morning
[05:16] <Keybuk> bella fabbione!
[05:16] <fabbione> bella Scott :)
[05:20] <Keybuk> jbailey: ping?
[05:23] <jbailey> Keybuk: Just got back
[05:23] <Keybuk> ah, cool
[05:23] <Keybuk> have you got a moment?
[05:23] <Keybuk> I'd like to see if you can explain something for me ...
[05:24] <jbailey> Keybuk: My wife says I have a moment, and 'Hi Scott' =)
[05:24] <Keybuk> Hi Angie *waves* :)
[05:24] <Keybuk> so, why does libc6-dev conflict with itself? :)
[05:24] <Keybuk> Package: libc6-dev
[05:24] <Keybuk> Conflicts: ..., libc6-dev (<< 2.0.110-1), ...
[05:25] <jbailey> *lol*
[05:26] <jbailey> That's from before my time, but my best guess is that it probably used to be libc-dev or something like that and we were probably overzealous in the renames to libc6 at some point.
[05:26] <jbailey> Lemme check snapshot, I don't know if it goes back that far.
[05:30] <jbailey> Not snapshot.  I thought gluck had a copy of old Debian releases, but I don't see it in ftp.root
[05:30] <Keybuk> it manages to slip through a corner-case in dpkg's dep checking, it never quite manages to find a conflict because it never thinks to look at itself and instead assumes it must be a virtual package (which it's not)
[05:31] <jbailey> Keybuk: *lol*
[05:31] <Keybuk> "conflict with myself, must be a virtual package I provide, not in my list so carry on"
[05:31] <jbailey> There's a few places in glibc's packaging that still need some love.
[05:32] <Keybuk> otherwise you'd have a very entertaining case where you couldn't upgrade libc6-dev, and had to remove and install it each time
[05:32] <jbailey> Did it trip something you were working on?  Like is this a Hoary/Sarge concern?
[05:32] <Keybuk> no, someone asked whether there was any special meaning attached to it
[05:33] <Keybuk> and I couldn't think of one other than "fuck me blind with a chainsaw"
[05:36] <zul> hey
[05:42] <zul> its quiet
[05:42] <robertj> too quiet ;)
[05:43] <robertj> do the ooo2 packages come from sid?
[05:49] <tseng> um so
[05:49] <tseng> do we need to move to oftc for the week?
[05:49] <zul> wtf is he going on about?
[05:49] <tseng> yeah dude.
[05:49] <tseng> f'ing owned
[05:49] <fabbione> zul: it's not the 31st of March everywhere in the world...
[05:49] <zul> whoops
[05:50] <tseng> zul: its not as good as the gnome planet switch.
[05:50] <zul> completely forgot about it being the first tomorrow
[05:50] <robertj> the dot.kde.org switch is pretty clerver as well
[05:51] <tseng> robertj: planet is backwards too
[06:01] <robertj> ooh its in
[06:01] <robertj> wouldn't run last week
[06:03] <lu|away> has run for me for a while
[06:03] <lu|away> just likes to eat files
[06:05] <robertj> is the jdbc for mysql driver packaged?
[06:10] <mdz> infinity: that seems like an unavoidable consequence of changing the semantics of the package from being a specific version to a metapackage with an ORed dependency
[06:10] <robertj> are libhowl-utils bork?
[06:11] <mdz> infinity: at any rate, we've never supported apache 1.3 in Ubuntu, so yes, it is more important to get it right for apache2 than to support upgrades for 1.3
[06:13] <infinity> mdz : Yeah, I got that impression.  The point becomes moot about 3 seconds after the CDs are gold anyway, so I'll just stop caring. :)
[06:19] <mindwarp> After updating to the newest packages for amd64 ia32-libs_0.5ubuntu3_amd64.deb does not install: "error creating symbolic link `./usr/lib32/libGL.so.1`: No such file or directory
[06:19] <mindwarp> too lazy to file a bug report, there you have it.
[06:25] <diamond> nite folks.
[06:26] <mindwarp> as a side note I do have the fglrx drivers installed, but I am guess 30% of the users will also so it probably should install without issue.
[06:32] <zul> night
[07:11] <bluefoxicy> " local attacker may potentially leverage this issue to trigger a kernel deadlock and potentially deny service for legitimate users. " up to and including 2.6.11.6
[07:11] <bluefoxicy> oh, that's from like 13 hours ago, not 1 hour ago, my bad, you all probably know already.
[07:12] <crimsun> url?
[07:22] <bluefoxicy> crimsun: bugtraqe
[07:22] <bluefoxicy> http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/12959?ref=rss
[07:22] <crimsun> k
[07:27] <fabbione> bluefoxicy: good morning to you too :)
[07:27] <bluefoxicy> it's 12:30
[07:28] <bluefoxicy> fabbione:  I need a small computer, laptop maybe, can you loan me one and get it here in 10 minutes?  :>
[07:28] <bluefoxicy> I dont want to test my hacks on my desktop box
[07:28] <bluefoxicy> actually i should have my laptop back in a week
[07:28] <fabbione> are you on somekind of crack?
[07:29] <fabbione> it's not like i have billions in my bank account :)
[07:29] <bluefoxicy> fabbione:  I'm crazy, so close enough.
[08:02] <thully> hi - I found a pretty bad issue with the Ubuntu RC - when I pressed the wireless button on my laptop, the wireless turns off.  However, pressing it again doesn't turn it back on properly.
[08:04] <thully> Also - on a more minor note, some things (like laptop_mode and kdm on kubuntu) don't look like the rest of the startup messages
[08:05] <thully> as in, they don't look like * Starting K Display Manager (kdm) [ok]  (for instance)
[08:31] <pitti> Morning, folks
[08:33] <kagou> hi pitti
[08:36] <pitti> for the German guys around: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/58125
[08:41] <infinity> Hey pitti.
[08:41] <pitti> infinity: bad to loose our Debian account, isn't it?

[08:43] <infinity> Did I miss an April fool's joke somewhere?
[08:44] <pitti> infinity: didn't read  your mail yet? "01.04.05 08:31 Joerg Jaspert     Bits from the DAMs ( & Co)"
[08:45] <infinity> Ahh. :)
[08:45] <infinity> Very April Foolish.
[08:45] <dilinger> pitti: i want my ice cream.
[08:45] <daniels> pitti: where was that?
[08:47] <infinity> Sadly, it's too obviously a joke.  What ever happened to subtlety?
[08:47] <infinity> daniels ; d-d-a.
[08:48] <schweeb> people interested in april fool's jokes should be directed to gnome and kde planets :)
[08:49] <daniels> infinity: i'm on it, but I can't be arsed waiting for offlineimap
[08:49] <Keybuk> schweeb: Planet Arslinux is good too :p
[08:50] <schweeb> Keybuk: I was involved in that
[08:50] <schweeb> :)
[08:50] <Keybuk> sweet :)
[08:51] <schweeb> Keybuk: note the schweeb in the "the crew" list ;)
[08:51] <schweeb> one of our guys isn't a fan of Fleck
[08:52] <schweeb> and even went to the point of making his own private planet.gnome.org, with everyone but Fleck
[08:52] <jdub> (twit.)
[08:52] <Keybuk> fleck rules
[08:52] <schweeb> his posts are pointless :)
[08:53] <schweeb> hi luis
[08:53] <schweeb> lol
[08:54] <jdub> lu|away: hrm, i think he might get a few emails outta this ;) i mailed earlier
[08:54] <jdub> a whole stack of mails pointing to a planet he's probably never read ;)
[08:55] <lu|away> hehe
[08:57] <schweeb> jdub: you should have seen it earlier, whiprush was trying to set the CoC in place in ars #linux earlier
[08:57] <schweeb> after I went off on someone :)
[08:57] <jdub> funny
[09:10] <pitti> Hey carlos
[09:11] <carlos> pitti: hi
[09:12] <dholbach> hey
[09:12] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[09:12] <dholbach> hey pitti
[09:13] <fabbione> pitti: http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/12959/info/
[09:14] <fabbione> pitti: please let me know asap if it's a 1st of apr fool or something i need to work on today
[09:14] <pitti> fabbione: I didn't read about this on bugtraq/f-d so far, I have to investigate
[09:15] <fabbione> pitti: ok
[09:15] <fabbione> i need to go offline a bit
[09:15] <pitti> fabbione: but this looks too complicated for a fool
[09:15] <fabbione> cya later
[09:15] <pitti> fabbione: sure, see you
[09:16] <daniels> woah, looks *way* too complicated for april fools'
[09:34] <bob2`> how often is Contents.gz regenerated?
[09:34] <dilinger> ugh
[09:35] <dilinger> that retry goto is ugly
[09:36] <bob2`> oh, ew
[09:36] <dilinger> anyways, that looks fixed in 2.6.11
[09:36] <Keybuk> Linus (rightfully) likes goto
[09:37] <Lathiat> gotos have their uses
[09:37] <dilinger> i have nothing against gotos
[09:38] <dilinger> i don't like that goto in particular
[09:38] <Lathiat> just they tend to get abused
[09:39] <dilinger> the function ends up w/ gotos in both directions.  it's fine until someone puts something in there that isn't handled when a retry is done.
[09:42] <dilinger> and for an absolutely horrid example of goto fun, see do_generic_mapping_read
[09:44] <dholbach> hey mvo
[09:45] <mvo> hey dholbach 
[09:56] <pitti> daniels: hey, got a minute? :-)
[09:59] <daniels> pitti: i'm sshing into chinstrap now
[09:59] <fabbione> ah much better
[09:59] <brainZzZ> ya know, someone to make all of those little projects happen. ;)
[09:59] <pitti> daniels: how could you know? :-)
[10:00] <daniels> christ
[10:04] <dilinger> shit
[10:04] <dilinger> Registrations have closed - linux.conf.au 2005 is sold out!
[10:05] <daniels> it sure is
[10:07] <Lathiat> yeh sucks but such is life
[10:07] <Lathiat> theres a waiting list for cancellations 
[10:10] <dholbach> who changed left and middle click in nautilus?
[10:10] <pitti> seb128
[10:10] <dholbach> hrm
[10:10] <dholbach> hm
[10:11] <dholbach> ok
[10:11] <pitti> dholbach: he was forced to... :-)
[10:12] <dholbach> it's just i was used to it now, but what i expected, when spatial nautilus came out
[10:12] <dholbach> so i have no real objections
[10:13] <Keybuk> it forces users to retrain their kinaesthetic memory, which is bad
[10:14] <Keybuk> I can understand it being the default for new users/installs, but upgrades should have kept the old style
[10:14] <fabbione> MOTU's: #6619 the workaround is also in mdadm init script
[10:14] <fabbione> it's an easy fix
[10:14] <brainZzZ> but they also include former representative stephen j. solarz (n.y.), a liberal democrat who with former pentagon official richard perle is circulating a letter in congress and foreign policy circles seeking bipartisan support for a more ambitious policy.
[10:15] <bob2`> I'm not sure if brainZzZ is a bot or just a really annoying human being
[10:15] <Treenaks> bob2`: I think he's an implementation of polygen
[10:15] <daniels> brainZzZ: ?
[10:15] <brainZzZ> sorta dumb too, since bob2` is a bot and clearly advertises itself as such
[10:15] <brainZzZ> lol
[10:15] <daniels> bot it is
[10:16] <daniels> (triggers: calling someone else a bot when they see brainZzZ.*bot, /msg'ing me when I said brainZzZ: ?, and messaging me with some nonsensical crap also)
[10:17] <HrdwrBoB> failed the turing test
[10:17] <daniels> yeah, but the old adage about half of real irc users failing it applies here
[10:19] <bob2`> hah
[10:20] <Keybuk> IRCing While Intoxicated!
[10:20] <dholbach> fabbione: added it to our todo, thanks
[10:21] <fabbione> dholbach: no problem.
[10:22] <dholbach> i have the feeling, we need more MOTUs... quite a lot more
[10:23] <pitti> dholbach: man fork(2)
[10:23] <bob2`> no, clone()
[10:25] <mvo> yeah! clone(dholbach), that would be good :)
[10:25] <Keybuk> bob2`: depends whether you want them to share resources or not
[10:25] <Keybuk> could be some locking issues if they both tried to go to the toilet at the same time
[10:26] <Keybuk> or answered SIGSEX simultaneously
[10:26] <Keybuk> that can be a bit painful for the raiser
[10:26] <dholbach> hahahaha :-)
[10:27] <dholbach> you wouldn't want more of me around... i really can tell :-)
[10:27] <mvo> haha
[10:27] <dredg> dholbach: well, it's either more of you or more of everyone else.
[10:27] <pitti> dholbach: hey, you could not just import the whole apt-get.org mess, but each and every crack .deb that google finds for you! :-)
[10:27] <HrdwrBoB> better the devil you know
[10:28] <dholbach> pitti: yeah... i guess i'd even import tucows or something if wine was readier, it's what i'd love to do... oh what delight!
[10:29] <pitti> ah, right
[10:30] <dholbach> whatever... you shall suffer if you spread more of those rumours :-)
[10:30] <cvd> sabdfl here... just doing an update on CVD's machine, and it is spewing error messages
[10:31] <cvd> lots about
[10:31] <cvd>  &mdash; 
[10:31] <cvd>  &mdash; 
[10:31] <cvd> no...
[10:31] <cvd> xchat doesn't want me to paste it in
[10:31] <cvd> lots of xml parsing problems, it seems, in the gnome stuff
[10:31] <Keybuk> oh, scrollkeeper stuff
[10:31] <cvd> is that a known problem?
[10:31] <Keybuk> blame thom, I think
[10:31] <cvd> also, it's generating a lot of locale data, for every en_XX variant.UTF8 it seems
[10:32] <dholbach> cvd: that's "normal", i think (locales)
[10:32] <dholbach> cvd: are there any packages that scrollkeeper / xml-parsing stuff refers to?
[10:34] <cvd> dholbach: no, it's scrolled past the scrollback limit now
[10:35] <dholbach> cvd: anything interesting in /var/log/scrollkeeper.log ?
[10:37] <cvd> dholbach: lots of registrations, no errors
[10:37] <dholbach> hrm... then it could be something else...
[10:40] <fabbione> pitti: anything new about that vulnerability?
[10:42] <cvd> any reason esound-clients is not in main? hard to use esd properly without it
[10:42] <cvd> now that we are back on esd from polypaudio
[10:43] <Lathiat> we are?
[10:43] <Lathiat> ah we are
[10:43] <Lathiat> polyp got some issues?
[10:43] <dholbach> cvd: it's just recommended by libesd0
[10:44] <cvd> Lathiat: seems to be going nowhere upstream
[10:44] <cvd> mdz: would you consider esound-clients for main?
[10:44] <dholbach> cvd: sound should work without it i think
[10:44] <cvd> dholbach: sound does, but it's hard to playa rbitrary sounds without esdplay
[10:45] <Lathiat> does esd use alsa?
[10:45] <dholbach> hmmm, ok
[10:45] <Lathiat> (directly)
[10:46] <dholbach> one day crimsun will give me a talk about sound/alsa/... and i'll understand it properly too :-)
[10:46] <cvd> Lathiat: yes
[10:46] <Lathiat> not doing it here
[10:46] <Lathiat> and if i start it without /dev/dsp it barfs
[10:55] <thom> Keybuk: no, certainly don't blame thom
[10:57] <d3vic3> doko, ping 
[10:58] <thom> good morning
[10:58] <d3vic3> moin thom 
[10:59] <mvo> morning thom 
[11:00] <pitti> Hi thom
[11:02] <pitti> fabbione: you have mail :-)
[11:02] <fabbione> pitti: thanks
[11:08] <doko> d3vic3: pong
[11:19] <fabbione> YAYAYAYA
[11:20] <fabbione> wanna-build --list=building |grep -v universe |wc -l
[11:20] <fabbione> 0
[11:20] <pitti> on sparc?
[11:20] <fabbione> sparc is there!
[11:20] <fabbione> yes
[11:20] <pitti> congrats!
[11:20] <fabbione> thanks :)
[11:20] <dholbach> fabbione: how many build failures?
[11:20] <fabbione> dholbach: ?
[11:20] <dholbach> fabbione: broken packages?
[11:20] <fabbione> if all of main is built, build failures should be 0
[11:20] <fabbione> but that's not completely true
[11:20] <dholbach> ah ok.... grep -v
[11:21] <fabbione> i had to cheat on 3 packages
[11:21] <pitti> Hi Astharot 
[11:21] <dholbach> this would have struck me: complete universe built fine
[11:22] <fabbione> dholbach: no universe is building, it will not finish for hoary and it is deprioritize compared to main, given that there is only ONE sparc buildd
[11:22] <pitti> hrm, what is the sense of splitting OO.o2 if the core+common are 73 MB, and writer and calc are tiny?
[11:22] <dholbach> fabbione: yep
[11:22] <fabbione> dholbach: on the otherside, the installer works fine here
[11:23] <dholbach> fabbione: *GRATS* :-)
[11:25] <dholbach> i built openoffice.org-help-fi-0.20021118 from apt-get.org - someone from the OOo crew will have to review it
[11:26] <dholbach> given it's from 2002
[11:31] <mvo> morning seb128 
[11:32] <dholbach> hey seb128 
[11:32] <seb128> hi
[11:32] <pitti> doko: OOO2 is uninstallable
[11:33] <pitti> doko: -debian-files is missing
[11:33] <pitti> doko: in your repo, at least
[11:33] <doko> hmm, the one from universe should work
[11:34] <zyga> mvo: is there something wrong with gnome cvs?
[11:35] <zyga> mvo: I'm trying to generate a diff but keep hitting a wall here :/
[11:35] <mvo> zyga: I haven't noticed anything yet, why?
[11:35] <zyga> freshly checkout worked... hmmm
[11:36] <mvo> zyga: odd
[11:42] <Burgundavia> jdub: ping
[11:42] <pitti> doko: I'm spammed with lots of "This task requires a JRE" dialogs when trying to start Base
[11:43] <haggai> pitti: can you review cdrdao for inclusion into main please?  It does a better job than cdrecord in several cases.  See #7877 for rationale
[11:44] <pitti> doko: hey, OO.o2 bibliography db doesn't crash on ppc :-)
[11:44] <pitti> haggai: for hoary?
[11:44] <haggai> pitti: yes
[11:44] <pitti> haggai: okay, I'll look at it
[11:45] <haggai> pitti: thanks
[11:47] <pitti> doko: and deleting a row in Calc doesn't crash any more either
[11:47] <pitti> doko: so apart from the fact that it is *painfully* slow and a memory hog (just as OO.o 1), it works fine
[11:50] <pitti> haggai: can cdrecord do anything what cdrdao can't? (multi-session, El Torito, burn-proof, whatever...)
[11:52] <haggai> pitti: quite a lot, but it doesn't do dao as well
[11:52] <haggai> pitti: that's why we want both to be available.  k3b chooses the best tool for the job
[11:53] <pitti> haggai: ah, neat
[11:53] <pitti> haggai: what does "remove k3bsetup2 from the package" mean?
[11:53] <pitti> haggai: isn't the setup program required any more?
[11:54] <haggai> pitti: k3bsetup2 is an app that runs as root to 'fix' permission problems -> change cd burner group, permissions and suid cdrecord/cdrdao but we don't need it on a well set up system, like ours :)
[11:54] <pitti> eek
[11:54] <pitti> and with udev
[11:54] <pitti> yeah, stomp it :-)
[11:54] <haggai> exactly
[11:54] <pitti> haggai: do you know whether cdrdao uses mlock() even without being setuid?
[11:55] <pitti> haggai: our kernels allow this
[11:57] <haggai>     if (geteuid() == 0) {
[11:57] <haggai>       if (mlockall(MCL_CURRENT|MCL_FUTURE) != 0) {
[11:57] <haggai>         message(-1, "Cannot lock memory pages: %s", strerror(errno));
[11:57] <pitti> hmm
[11:57] <pitti> the first line should just be dropped
[11:57] <haggai> ok, good to know
[11:57] <pitti> then cdrdao could get the mlock() benefit even with running as user
[11:57] <haggai> cool.  I appreciate you thinking of that
[11:58] <pitti> haggai: of course I didn't test this :-)
[11:58] <pitti> haggai: but locking the page to prevent swapping seems to be a good thing
[11:58] <pitti> haggai: our Warty kernel was patched to allow this, and 2.6.10 does it upstream
[11:58] <haggai> heh :) well it can't be any worse than the default behaviour
[11:58] <pitti> normal users can lock pages up to their ulimit
[11:59] <pitti> haggai: the only regression could be that users get this error message if they request too much memory
[11:59] <pitti> haggai: but this seems to be a cosmetic problem only
[11:59] <haggai> yup
[11:59] <pitti> bah, heaps of arch crap in the diff.gz...
[12:00] <haggai> ouch yeah
[12:02] <fabbione> pitti: CAN-2005-0867 was already fixed in hoary (-28)
[12:02] <pitti> fabbione: oh, great
[12:17] <pitti> haggai: I followed up to #7877
[12:22] <zyga> mvo: how would you feel about adding joe-user-friendliness to update-manager?
[12:22] <zyga> mvo: things like 'tell me why this stuff is important' and such
[12:23] <mvo> zyga: per package? or globally?
[12:23] <zyga> globally
[12:23] <zyga> things like a glossary for my mom who never heard of 'package'
[12:23] <zyga> mvo: I was also thinking of a gconf key that could disable tis
[12:23] <zyga> this even
[12:24] <zyga> like "Don't show me newbie stuff'
[12:24] <pitti> Hi zyga, how's it going?
[12:24] <zyga> pitti: hi, busy - I'm already late for work :-)
[12:25] <mvo> zyga: ok for breezy, probably too late for hoary :( (because of the string changes)
[12:25] <ups> does anybody think that in Firefox privacy.popups.disable_from_plugins should default to 2 ?
[12:25] <zyga> mvo: everything I'm talking about is for breezy
[12:26] <ups> (it blocks pop ups from plugins that have been exploited recently)
[12:26] <zyga> mvo: along with app icons and similar changes
[12:26] <zyga> ups: what about plugin popups?
[12:26] <zyga> ups: flash seems to be abused lately 
[12:26] <ups> zyga: like flash or java applets
[12:26] <ups> yeah
[12:26] <ups> popups from those 
[12:27] <zyga> ups: then it should IMHO - I haven't seen one that was usefull 
[12:27] <ups> it is
[12:27] <ups> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/007860.html
[12:27] <mvo> zyga: oh, ok. then I'm all for it. we may use the introduction from synaptic? have you looked at it?
[12:27] <zyga> mvo: no is that in the doc files or in the app itself?
[12:28] <ups> zyga: they have released a extension which does this and also disable any user event initiated popups
[12:28] <ups> (for testing)
[12:28] <haggai> pitti: thanks a lot!
[12:28] <zyga> mvo: the 'short introduction' popup in synaptic?
[12:29] <mvo> zyga: in the app, the popup
[12:29] <pitti> haggai: the O_EXCL patch might be too late for hoary, but I think the README.Debian change and the mlockall() are appropriate
[12:30] <zyga> mvo: the text is okay but it should be more obvious and easy to see (preferably in u-m as it's more user friendly)
[12:31] <mvo> zyga: ok
[12:31] <dholbach> pitti: i have some sbin/ binaries in the apt-get.org packages, i'll mark those as "need security review", alright?
[12:32] <pitti> dholbach: okay, thanks. any setuid ones?
[12:32] <pitti> dholbach: (although it wouldn't make sense to put setuid bins in sbin/)
[12:33] <dholbach> pitti: not that i'm aware of
[12:33] <pitti> dholbach: ok
[12:33] <dholbach> pitti: i'll prod you again, if i'm through with the list
[12:34] <dholbach> pitti: thanks :-)
[12:34] <haggai> pitti: yeah the O_EXCL patch is not trivial since it changes possible error return code paths too
[12:35] <pitti> haggai: I fixed it in cdrecord long ago and it works fine there; however, this definitively needs some testing, and I also had a bug about it back then
[12:37] <haggai> pitti: ok
[12:53] <mjg59> thom: Hm. The backgrounded acpi lock removal probably ought to wait for a second or so before actually deleting the file
[01:03] <gabaug> the new gdm background on Hoary....um...I was planning on introducing my gf to her newly dual booting Ubuntu system tomorrow, but I can't show her that :)
[01:05] <thom> gabaug: tomorrow will be fine. look at the name of the theme in gdm config :P
[01:05] <mjg59> So, uh, what /is/ today's gdm theme?
[01:05] <gabaug> thom: ah, I get it w/o looking :)
[01:05] <thom> mjg59: elmo,mdz,sabdfl doing the ubuntu circle of friends
[01:05] <Mithrandir> *chuckle*
[01:06] <Mithrandir> mjg59: gdmflexiserver -n
[01:06] <thom> mjg59: http://www.planetarytramp.net/background.jpg
[01:07] <mjg59> I need to provide a different /etc/acpi/lid.sh for the HPs. How can I do this?
[01:07] <Mithrandir> I'm amazed you got elmo to agree to it.
[01:07] <Treenaks> thom: aaaagh
[01:07] <Gagatan> Mithrandir: april prank?
[01:08] <Mithrandir> Gagatan: no shit
[01:09] <mjg59> thom: Alternatively, can we have a hack in acpi-support's lid.sh that runs a script if it exists?
[01:09] <thom> mjg59: that seems easiest. sure
[01:09] <mjg59> thom: Rock, thanks
[01:14] <pitti> "mdz is watching you" 
[01:14] <dholbach> hehe :-)
[01:16] <carlos> pitti: is it in the release candidate? or it's only an update that will disappear tomorrow?
[01:16] <carlos> :-)
[01:16] <sabdfl> it's just for this thpecial day
[01:17] <pitti> carlos: I'm afraid it will be gone tomorrow :-)
[01:17] <pitti> sabdfl: but it's nice to see you again :-)
[01:17] <dholbach> it really rocks
[01:17] <sabdfl> drunk and disorderly?
[01:17] <pitti> sabdfl: is this in your house?
[01:18] <sabdfl> nup. restaurant in mataro, last night big dinner
[01:18] <pitti> ah, I remember
[01:18] <sabdfl> jdub took the picture, halfway up a ladder
[01:18] <dholbach> sabdfl: he has green-ish shoes?
[01:18] <pitti> yeah, I already had too much alcohol, so I didn't remember at first :-)
[01:18] <mjg59> thom: Any idea when that'll be uploaded? I need to prepare an iso
[01:19] <thom> mjg59: what script do you need to be run? ;-)
[01:19] <pitti> dholbach: that's all what is left from his previous greenish iBook
[01:19] <Lathiat> can michael vogt be foudn on irc?
[01:19] <thom> Lathiat: mvo
[01:19] <pitti> Lathiat: mvo
[01:19] <Lathiat> thanks
[01:19] <Lathiat> mvo: ping
[01:19] <mjg59> thom: How about making it vaguely sane - /etc/acpi/local/lid.sh.post?
[01:19] <thom> mjg59: seems reasonable
[01:20] <thom> mjg59: run at the end of lid.sh?
[01:20] <mjg59> thom: If it exists, yeah
[01:20] <thom> righto
[01:20] <thom> carlos: it's on the intarweb already :P
[01:20] <mvo> Lathiat: pong
[01:20] <carlos> thom: I'm thinking about bloging about it also :-P
[01:22] <mdke> is the login on the website down again?
[01:22] <Lathiat> mvo: just curious if you've seen/fied a bug in synaptic where it added a warty repository instead of hoary? (friend added universe today with add and it set warty instead of hoary, but i can't reproduce it here so wondering if it was fixed, can't see a bug report..)
[01:24] <mvo> Lathiat: haven't seen that problem yet, is your friends machine up-to-date?
[01:24] <Lathiat> mvo: was a cd install downloaded yesterday
[01:25] <Lathiat> mvo: like i said i can't reproduce it here, just thought it might have been fixed or something, will have a closer look to see if its reproducible/happens with a dist-upgrade
[01:25] <mvo> Lathiat: thanks, please let me know if you can reproduce it
[01:26] <Lathiat> mvo: cus that would be a sucker of a bug :)
[01:26] <Lathiat> i noticed cus she installed gstreamer0.8-mad and it was crashing muine, because it was old
[01:26] <Lathiat> s/crashing muine/couldn't install muine, and was crashing rhythmbox/
[01:26] <mvo> Lathiat: that would really be a sucker
[01:27] <mdke> please can someone try to login on the website, I can't seem to login and i wonder if its down again.
[01:29] <pitti> mdke: confirmed, I can't login either
[01:29] <mdke> hmm
[01:29] <mdke> elmo, ping
[01:29] <pitti> elmo: the website login is down
[01:29] <mdke> pitti, thanks for checking
[01:32] <sabdfl> elmo: please bounce the authserver, we are updating LP
[01:44] <mdke> what's up with it?
[01:44] <Lathiat> mdke: april fools....
[01:44] <mdke> on the wallpaper?
[01:44] <mjg59> Yeah
[01:45] <mdke> dammit
[01:45] <Lathiat> a new ubuntu-calendar with that image would have been classy :P)
[01:45] <Lathiat> being due and all
[01:45] <mdke> got a screenshot?
[01:46] <Lathiat> yeah
[01:46] <dholbach> see you later
[01:46] <mdke> bye dholbach
[01:46] <dholbach> bye mdke 
[01:47] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/Screenshot-Xnest.jpg
[01:47] <mdke> ty :)
[01:47] <mdke> lol
[01:48] <mdke> sexy
[01:52] <mdke> not sure if I preferred the naked guys or these ones
[01:59] <thom> mjg59: so, a 1 second sleep then rm the acpi lock?
[02:01] <mjg59> thom: Yeah, that ought to do
[02:05] <pitti> thom: BTW, did you ever consider diff -Nru ffox-0.9.3/ ffox-1.0.2/ > ffox-0.9.3/debian/patches/security_all.patch?
[02:05] <pitti> ;-)
[02:05] <thom> pitti: *giggle*
[02:05] <thom> pitti: no, i like having a job ;P
[02:06] <fabbione> pitti: ahaha
[02:07] <thom> mjg59: Uploading via ftp acpi-support_0.21_source.changes: done.
[02:07] <dredg> pitti: give in to the dark side
[02:09] <thom> HrdwrBoB: nice hostname :P
[02:09] <fabbione> ehhe
[02:16] <srbaker> 'morning everyone
[02:17] <diamond> guys, i'm looking for the previous version of mdadm (1.9.0-1ubuntu1), it's not on archive.ubuntu.com, is there somewhere else i can get it from? specifically i'm looking for the source
[02:24] <pitti> diamond: http://morgue.ubuntu.com/
[02:24] <diamond> pitti: ah hah! thanks
[02:34] <kent> Can some one explain why I can hear music with totem etc in Hoary,  but if i try Ubuntu Device Database, then I cant hear any sound. It feels wrong to press the button for no sound, since sound actually works for me in all other programs :(  (Posting it here aswell, since perhaps some one here knows if its a problem with ubuntu device database.  (I have a ac97 btw)
[02:35] <mdke> website still down
[02:42] <robertj> kent: maybe gstreamer isn't working?
[02:42] <robertj> ie. perhaps totem is using totem-xine?
[02:42] <ogra_> kent, are your system sounds working ?
[02:43] <robertj> and totem-xine perhaps plugins into alsa or oss instead of gstreamer?
[02:43] <ogra_> kent, hwdb-client uses gnome_sound_play() for playing sound, so it works if your gnome sounds work too
[02:43] <kent> robertj, totem is using xine, thats correct. But is muine also using xine? I can play music with muine.  But, as a side-note. Right now, if I select properties on an ogg-file, nautilus hangs. Dont know why :(  Perhaps gstreamer is the cause then?
[02:43] <robertj> so it may be cutting out a middle man to get closer to the hardware, which might be good for dvd playback but might be harsh for some things where you want the middle man to do mixing and such
[02:44] <robertj> I think muine is gstreamer only, hrmm
[02:44] <pitti> seb128, our glorious fighter for "keep the list clean" :-)
[02:45] <seb128> am I the only one to care ?
[02:45] <seb128> just curious, sometime I'm wondering if I should reply or just let them use that like a bug list ...
[02:46] <kent> robertj, I can play with muine. Im doing it right now. I will try to play some system sounds soon. I think I have it disabled right now.
[02:47] <seb128> kent: the nautilus hang is due to libxine
[02:47] <Lathiat> gnome_sound_play might use esd?
[02:47] <ogra> Lathiat, it does ;)
[02:47] <Lathiat> and something could be broken there i guess
[02:47] <Lathiat> whereas muine uses gstreamer
[02:49] <kent> gstreamer-properties is using alsa as output. Should it be using that? It might be that I have changed that some time before, I cant remember :(
[02:49] <pitti> kent: it should output to esound
[02:49] <kent> ah, I cant play sound with esd when i try with gstreamer-properties :(    So its esd thats buggy?
[02:49] <seb128> ps ax | grep esound ?
[02:50] <pitti> seb128: I appreciate that you care :-)
[02:50] <Lathiat> seb128: grep esd
[02:50] <seb128> pitti: thanks :)
[02:50] <seb128> Lathiat: correct
[02:50] <ogra> kent, everything in a default ubuntu should use esound, thats why i let hwdb-client test the sound there
[02:50] <kent> seb128, esd is running:  /usr/bin/esd -n
[02:50] <seb128> esdplay works ?
[02:51] <kent> seb128, I dont seem to have esdplay on my system :(
[02:51] <seb128> it's in esound-common or something like that
[02:52] <kent> esound-common is installed and newest package (according to apt)
[02:52] <seb128> -clients
[02:52] <adobbie> sucks that esound is still used
[02:53] <ogra> adobbie, improve polypaudio, so we can use it in the next release ;)
[02:53] <seb128> you want to make pitti cry ? :)
[02:53] <kent> seb128, ah,  that package was not installed :( Installing it right now.
[02:53] <adobbie> why can't gnome and others just use ALSA?
[02:53] <pitti> seb128: why, I fixed polypaudio, it has to work!! :-P
[02:53] <seb128> yeah, but we use esound :p
[02:54] <ogra> adobbie, you dont understand the architecture of linux sound
[02:54] <pitti> ogra: why, what's so wrong with using alsa and dmix?
[02:54] <adobbie> ogra: probably not
[02:54] <pitti> in theory, at least?
[02:54] <ogra> adobbie, you need a mixing daemon
[02:54] <pitti> ogra: alsa has dmix
[02:55] <kent> hmm, I cant hear sound when I play wav's with esdplay :(
[02:55] <ogra> pitti, that might work in theory :) 
[02:55] <pitti> yeah, I don't talk about bugs in alsa :)
[02:55] <pitti> but using alsa directly looks nicer, architecture-wise
[02:55] <ogra> pitti, but as long as they ar there we cant use a kernel mixer ;)
[02:55] <diamond> one thing alsa really needs is a simple way to choose a default device
[02:56] <adobbie> ogra: do you need that for all sound devices?
[02:56] <pitti> ogra: do you know of any actual blockers in alsa?
[02:56] <ogra> pitti, not compatible with all soundcards ?
[02:56] <pitti> HUH?
[02:56] <pitti> ogra: we already use the alsa drivers
[02:56] <ogra> pitti, we didnt test it extensively ?
[02:56] <pitti> ogra: we just don't use dmix
[02:57] <pitti> ogra: well, I don't speak about changing hoary :-)
[02:57] <ogra> pitti, did you tra dmix on a PNP ISA soundblaster ?
[02:57] <pitti> ogra: but for breezy we might very well consider trying alsa
[02:57] <pitti> ogra: I tried it on a SB 128
[02:57] <ogra> pitti, yeah....lets try it :)
[02:57] <adobbie> you don't need any mixing daemons on decent hardware
[02:57] <pitti> ogra: dmix is a pure software layer, it shouldn't be sound card dependent
[02:58] <ogra> adobbie, you need some mixing architecture on top of the sounddevice to play more then one sound at the same time
[02:58] <pitti> ogra: well, if the sound card hardware supports multiple channels, they can be used of course :-)
[02:58] <adobbie> ogra: ALSA does that in the kernel doesn't it?
[02:58] <diamond> ogra: well, sblive can handle 32 streams in h/w
[02:58] <ogra> adobbie, with dmix, yes
[02:58] <pitti> adobbie: if you configure it to do so, yes
[02:58] <smurfix> Is anthing special needed to get the new version included in the next -current images?
[02:58] <adobbie> pitti: I'm pretty sure that the default
[02:58] <pitti> adobbie: no, it's not
[02:59] <pitti> adobbie: you need an /etc/asound.conf to configure it
[02:59] <ogra> diamond, i'm not talking about high end HW ;) (you know, i'm always the guy that shouts ISA on conferences if it comes to HW discussions ;) )
[02:59] <pitti> adobbie: if it was the default, alsa apps would work without blocking
[02:59] <adobbie> pitti: I don't have an asound.conf :)
[02:59] <diamond> ogra: lol, fair enough
[02:59] <pitti> adobbie: yeah, you have to create it
[03:00] <ogra> pitti, dmix will require a fair amount of non gstreamer apps to be changed i guess...
[03:00] <adobbie> pitti: so why can I play many streams at one time with no problems when I haven't configured anything?
[03:00] <pitti> ogra: I think this would make a good UDU bof
[03:01] <pitti> adobbie: I can't with alsa (only with esound/polypaudio)
[03:01] <ogra> pitti, isnt sound mixing a jdub default BOF on every conference ?
[03:01] <pitti> adobbie: my sound hw only offers one hw channel
[03:01] <pitti> ogra: lol
[03:01] <adobbie> pitti: what hardware are you using?
[03:01] <pitti> ogra: remember, we also have to trash inotify and gamin and start to use sth completely different :-P
[03:01] <pitti> adobbie: currently a cheap on-board sound chip
[03:01] <ogra> yeah
[03:01] <ogra> lol
[03:02] <adobbie> pitti: do you know if it's the fault of the driver or the hardware?
[03:02] <dredg> http://planet.gnome.org/
[03:02] <dredg> hahaha
[03:02] <pitti> adobbie: no idea
[03:02] <ogra> dredg, planetkde.org 
[03:02] <ogra> heheh
[03:02] <dredg> nice
[03:02] <pitti> adobbie: you can play multiple streams with alsa without configuration? neat
[03:02] <ogra> big DNS shuffling today
[03:03] <pitti> dredg: likewise, planet kde
[03:03] <adobbie> pitti: I have SB Live Value, it doesn't get much easier than that with Linux
[03:04] <diamond> adobbie: uh uh. the sblive can mix 32 channels in hardware. alan cox hacked the kernel driver to allow /dev/dsp to be opened multiple times
[03:05] <pitti> diamond: even with OSS? or just the ALSA driver?
[03:05] <adobbie> ALSA doesn't have a /dev/dsp unless you run the OSS emulation layer
[03:05] <pitti> yeah, I know
[03:05] <diamond> pitti: that was OSS. i'm pretty sure alsa allows the same thing without hacking
[03:06] <pitti> diamond: yeah, could be
[03:06] <adobbie> yeah
[03:06] <pitti> adobbie: so dmix allows to emulate the same thing for sound cards with just one hw channel
[03:06] <adobbie> cat /dev/urandom >/dev/dsp  as many times as you like noise
[03:06] <seb128> elmo: loudmouth sync please
[03:08] <seb128> :)
[03:08] <trulux> woo woo
[03:08] <adobbie> pitti: it's unfortunate that hardware manufactures make Windows drivers but not Linux drivers
[03:09] <adobbie> means Linux users end up with drivers that just don't cut it
[03:09] <pitti> yeah
[03:09] <pitti> adobbie: well, at least my video card enjoys the nvidia drivers
[03:09] <pitti> adobbie: it's better than nothing
[03:10] <adobbie> pitti: yep, that's one thing that's actually easy
[03:10] <kent> ubuntu hardware database could come with a toggle-button for "Send this spec to the hardware manufactor so that they know we use it, and that we want it to work better in linux"  ?
[03:10] <ogra> kent, not yet.... 
[03:11] <ogra> kent, and i think hey will kill me if i do this unconfirmed :)
[03:12] <ogra> kent, but you get the idea of hwdb ;), at least _we_ know where improvement is needed
[03:12] <adobbie> voluntary collection of system specs for users during install would be interesting
[03:12] <adobbie> to get an idea of what hardware is most used by Ubuntu users
[03:12] <ogra> adobbie, i dont want to force users :)
[03:12] <pitti> ogra: well, you won't get reports about hw that fails at all, because users won't get to the point when they can execute hwdb
[03:12] <ogra> adobbie, so its only an option by now
[03:13] <ogra> pitti, but i get comments and the like....thats what the gui is for...
[03:13] <torkel> ogra: pitty that we haven't had time to switch to ubuntu yet, that might have added another ~200 machines :-)
[03:14] <ogra> pitti, it always depends on the state of failure, sure i cant detect a fucked RAID controller if you got / there ;)
[03:15] <trulux> fabbione: could you make any microbenchmarking with the current linux-image?
[03:15] <adobbie> hwdb not collect any details?
[03:15] <trulux> fabbione: It could be fun
[03:15] <ogra> pitti, but a non working WLAN device, bad sound quality, wrong X,mouse or keyboard detection...
[03:16] <ogra> adobbie, it runs hwdb-xml -a 
[03:16] <ogra> adobbie, run that from a commandline....
[03:17] <trulux> fabbione: I could make some for you, just writing a paper and having too much junk running to make a clean one
[03:17] <adobbie> ogra: looks like you would know about this stuff :)
[03:17] <ogra> adobbie, all HAL data, everything i can read from your BIOS chip, meminfo, cpuinfo lsb-release and the comments you give through the test ;)
[03:17] <mdke> website login still down :(
[03:18] <mdke> any news?
[03:18] <ogra> adobbie, oh, andi forgot, your current xorg.conf + log and your bootlog
[03:19] <kent> ogra, is the ubuntu hardware database ubuntu-specific code, or could it be used on other distributions aswell? it seems like a great tool.
[03:19] <adobbie> ogra: is that going to work with a 2.4 kernel?
[03:19] <adobbie> as well as with 2.6
[03:20] <pitti> adobbie: hal depends on 2.6
[03:20] <adobbie> pitti: yes that's why I'm asking.  will the tool be of much use
[03:20] <ogra> kent, it depends on ubuntus HAL, and its pretty useless without the hal patches...
[03:21] <thom> (and hal only runs on a 2.6 kernel)
[03:21] <ogra> yeah
[03:23] <ogra> hmm, amd64 has 248 hwdb submissions, ppc only 37....
[03:23] <diamond> ogra: nice work on hwdb-client
[03:23] <ogra> diamond, thanks
[03:23] <ogra> :)
[03:24] <diamond> very smooth
[03:24] <ogra> wait for breezy ;)
[03:24] <diamond> my sound didn't work till i plugged in my speakers, but i felt it would be a bit harsh to blame ubuntu for that -)
[03:24] <ogra> heh
[03:24] <mdke> even ubuntu can't do everything
[03:24] <lamont> so does someone already know about enigmail being ftbfs?
[03:24] <adobbie> guess I won't test on my 2.4.30-rc3 vanilla kernel :)
[03:25] <mdke> is there anyone else who can sort out the website server?
[03:25] <ogra> adobbie, no, you shouldnt....
[03:26] <pitti> Morning lamong
[03:26] <pitti> lamont, even
[03:26] <ogra> heh
[03:28] <ogra> adobbie, bwt, why are you running 2.4 ?
[03:29] <adobbie> ogra: because I don't see a reason to use an unstable development kernel
[03:30] <ogra> adobbie, but on ubuntu 2.6 is quite essential, you loose a _lot_ of functionallity
[03:30] <adobbie> depends on what functionality you use :)
[03:30] <adobbie> my desktop is a Pentium II
[03:30] <adobbie> there's not a whole lot here
[03:33] <adobbie> ogra: I'm a picky cli lover
[03:34] <ogra> heh
[03:34] <mdke> not the standard ubuntu user ;)
[03:34] <adobbie> no
[03:35] <adobbie> only interest in Ubuntu is because Debian just isn't cutting it for me
[03:35] <adobbie> can't exactly go around suggesting newbies use Debian
[03:35] <adobbie> but I can do that with Ubuntu :)
[03:36] <mdke> yep
[03:36] <pitti> adobbie: my gf still uses woody on her box :-)
[03:36] <lamont> kids->school
[03:36] <pitti> adobbie: actually it's not even the final woody release, but was sid at that time
[03:39] <infinity> lamont : Which ftbfs is this?
[03:39] <froud> Hello all, where is Ubuntu database manager being developed? In which repos?
[03:40] <ogra> froud, currently only in the source package 
[03:41] <ogra> froud, i'll make a baz repo after UDU
[03:41] <froud> ogra:  Ok docs will be made in docteam svn, is that ok with you?
[03:41] <zul> hey
[03:41] <ogra> froud, sure
[03:41] <froud> ok will post information for checkout in awhile
[03:41] <Mitario> hi everyone
[03:44] <froud> ogra: ubuntu update manager is gnome only or also will work on kde?
[03:45] <froud> ogra: sorry
[03:45] <froud> ogra: ubuntu database manager is gnome only or also will work on kde?
[03:45] <ogra> froud, i had to add a .desktop entry to make kde happy (i'm not happy about it) baut it needs gnome_sound_play for example, so there are drawbacks :)
[03:46] <pitti> ogra: use cat file > /dev/dsp for _real_ portability :-)
[03:46] <ogra> froud, to be honest, i think the KDE users will need a good bunch of gnome librarys to make it work....i'm not sure if kubuntu installs these
[03:46] <froud> ogra: kde make me happy. Ok so dependacy required if on kde. Is Kubuntu installing it by default or must kde user do install manually
[03:46] <mvo> hey Mitario 
[03:46] <ogra> pitti, i want to test esd and the system sounds ;)
[03:47] <Mitario> mvo, hi :-)
[03:47] <mvo> froud: kubuntu does not ship with update-manager by default
[03:47] <pitti> ogra: just kidding
[03:47] <ogra> froud, i dont know :)
[03:47] <Mitario> mvo, why don't we make a qt/kde update-manager ;-)
[03:47] <dholbach> hey ogra 
[03:47] <ogra> froud, but since they dont want gnome libs in the default install i guess they dont ship it
[03:47] <froud> mvo: but I understand the update-manager only updates gnome
[03:47] <ogra> hey dholbach 
[03:47] <mvo> Mitario: there are binding
[03:48] <mvo> froud: oh, it will update just everything
[03:48] <froud> ogra: ok I will document it as gnome only for now, we can extend for kde later
[03:48] <ogra> froud, but update manager also is a gnome app, that will need the essential libs
[03:48] <froud> mvo: ok
[03:48] <ogra> froud, ok... (we'll need a kde dev to do that)
[03:49] <froud> ogra: as far as I know it needs synaptic and apt
[03:49] <ogra> froud, and the toolkit ;)
[03:49] <mvo> Mitario: let's do that for breezy :) I would like to seperate the frontend-backend better
[03:49] <mvo> froud: correct
[03:49] <froud> Mitario: good idea
[03:49] <Mitario> mvo, indeed indeed :-)
[03:50] <froud> Mitario: any recent updates for docs on update-manager?
[03:50] <Mitario> mvo, maybe we should create a wiki page where we discuss the features/api and such
[03:50] <Mitario> froud, hm, i don't think so, the current ubuntu version is the latest i think
[03:51] <mvo> Mitario: sounds good
[03:51] <Mitario> mvo, actually what kind of 'backend' things do we have?
[03:52] <Mitario> mvo, because update-manager is actually already a frontend for python-apt/synaptic
[03:52] <froud> mvo: I also dont like the GDFL lic in the front page I will be patching a solution shortley
[03:52] <mvo> froud: ah, good news! thanks
[03:52] <froud> GFDL
[03:52] <froud> ok back to work for me c ya
[03:53] <froud> ogra: since this is gnome for now I will be using gnome doc conventions
[03:53] <froud> later
[03:53] <froud> c ya
[03:53] <abelli> froud: ciao
[03:54] <Mitario> froud, bye, good luck!
[03:54] <mvo> Mitario: abstracting some common stuff into common python objects that can be used by both frontends is what I have in mind. I think it's good in many ways already, just making it a little more abstract so that the amount of gui code that needs to be written is really minimal
[03:54] <Mitario> mvo, yes, ok, i agree
[03:55] <ogra> froud, ok with me
[03:55] <Mitario> mvo, do we put it on the gnome wiki or ubuntu?
[03:55] <mvo> Mitario: but adding a new frontend is a good thing(tm). it will make sure that we write good code :)
[03:55] <mvo> Mitario: a kde frontend discussion on the gnome wiki?
[03:56] <Mitario> mvo, hmm, well, was actually thinking about client-frontend seperation, but indeed, maybe not such a good idea ;-)
[03:56] <Mitario> mvo, i have a kde hacker in 2ft of my workstation atm, so i just asked him about the python-kde bindings and if we have a glade alternative (for the ui)
[03:59] <thully> hi - I've tried the release candidate - and I noticed that if I press the wireless button to turn off my ipw2200 wireless radio, and then press it again to turn it back on, it doesn't come back on properly
[03:59] <mvo> Mitario: oh, nice. keep me updated :) I have no idea about python-kde beside that it exists
[04:00] <lamont> infinity: 8493-8495
[04:00] <Mitario> mvo, sure i will, i'll start the wiki page at w.u.c
[04:01] <mvo> Mitario: great, thanks :)
[04:02] <zul> hey pitti
[04:03] <pitti> hey zul
[04:03] <zul> how is it going?
[04:03] <pitti> the n-th relogin today, and gamin is still the suck...
[04:03] <Mitario> umm, the password reset dialog on the wiki gives me a http auth dialog for "launchpad"
[04:04] <mdke> yeah website is still boned
[04:04] <mdke> no one can reset it?
[04:04] <Mitario> ah
[04:07] <mdke> in desperation i'm sending a mail to webmaster@ubuntulinux.org
[04:07] <Lathiat> mdke: whats wrong with the website
[04:08] <mdke> can't login
[04:08] <seb128> pitti: no need to relogin, killall nautilus gam_server 
[04:13] <dholbach> see you later
[04:14] <infinity> lamont : enigmail should probably be synced with Debian to get proper support for thunderbird 1.0.2 and Moz 1.7.6.
[04:15] <infinity> lamont : neon, I will fix right now.  It's a simple fix.
[04:15] <infinity> lamont : gd2, I'll look at tomorrow.
[04:16] <thom> infinity: see the apache2 bug about removal with busted config not working?
[04:16] <infinity> thom : No.  Do I want to?
[04:17] <infinity> thom : #?
[04:18] <thom> 8374
[04:19] <fabbione> trulux: and compare the benchmarks to what?
[04:21] <infinity> thom : Y'know, this has come up before...
[04:22] <infinity> thom : There was a long thread on debian-devel where people argued that daemons that can't be stopped SHOULD cause the uninstallation to fail, so you know something about it.  Or some such.
[04:22] <pitti> seb128: yeah, I just tried this
[04:22] <pitti> seb128: but it doesn't help to make gam_server work again
[04:22] <infinity> thom : If we've decided that's now bullshit, it's a 2 second fix to add ||true to the prerm.
[04:22] <mdz> morning
[04:22] <pitti> seb128: I'm at the point where killall gam_server does not make my icons reappear
[04:22] <pitti> Hi mdz
[04:22] <infinity> Mornin' mdz.
[04:22] <mvo> morning mdke 
[04:22] <mdke> :)
[04:22] <ogra> hi mdz
[04:23] <fabbione> morning mdz
[04:23] <seb128> hi mdz 
[04:23] <seb128> pitti: urg
[04:24] <ogra> fabbione, youre not aggregated on planet.ubuntu yet ?
[04:24] <infinity> mdz : See above, please.  Should a failing init.d 'stop' action bomb package removal, or not?... I have a feeling your answer will differ from the old debian-devel debate, which I'm cool with, just means a quick apache2 upload for Ubuntu. :)
[04:24] <fabbione> ogra: i am waiting for elmo to to sync from jdub
[04:24] <ogra> ah :)
[04:24] <mvo> mdz: can I ask you about apt/python-apt now? or would you rather postpone it until later?
[04:24] <seb128> pitti: the breakage is not only for the desktop :/
[04:25] <infinity> mdz : (Assuming "failed" means "the daemon is still running", not "the script sucks")
[04:25] <mdz> infinity: I don't remember the debate, but in general, I feel that breaking the upgrade is worse than leaving a daemon running
[04:25] <mdz> s/upgrade/upgrade or removal/
[04:25] <mdz> mvo: what about them?
[04:25] <infinity> mdz : Check.
[04:25] <infinity> thom : Reassign to me, I'll upload soonish.
[04:25] <trulux> fabbione: mainline
[04:26] <mvo> mdz: I would like to upload a new version of python-apt that fixes a refrence count problem in the depcache code and removes a unneeded "Init()" call. 
[04:26] <fabbione> trulux: kinda pointless. we don't modify all the main subsystems at all
[04:26] <fabbione> trulux: we have the same "code" if you want to put it that way
[04:26] <mvo> mdz: and I would like you opionion on #8151 (I put a patch there to work around broken proxies in apt when the release.gpg is fetched)
[04:27] <infinity> mdz : Oh, another one.  bogofilter has a "Maj" bug against it which is fixed in a newer Debian/upstream bugfix-only-type revision.  Any objections to me uploading said version?  (The one that's been around and tested for a week or so, not the one uploaded a day or two ago)
[04:27] <froud> mvo: cvs up on update-manager and yelp the help to see if it all works
[04:27] <trulux> fabbione: OK, I will have a look
[04:27] <mvo> froud: will do now, thaks
[04:29] <pitti> seb128: I didn't catch your last msg any more
[04:29] <pitti> seb128: I know why killall gam_server didn't help any more, the old server was in eternal kernel sleep
[04:29] <mdz> mvo: python-apt is fairly important; I don't want to change it post-RC unless it's to fix bugs which are critical for the release
[04:29] <pitti> seb128: so it was unkillable, I had to reboot
[04:29] <seb128> pitti: k
[04:29] <mdz> infinity: is that the "doesn't rotate the transaction logs" bug?
 pitti: the breakage is not only for the desktop :/
[04:29] <pitti> seb128: yeah, for me neither
[04:29] <seb128> pitti: ie: happens in /random/directory too
[04:30] <mvo> mdz: the refcount think is pretty importend (and a easy/obvious thing). the init() is not that importend
[04:30] <trulux> btw, anyone knows how to record a video streaming in mms?
[04:30] <trulux> http://a953.v59721.c5972.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/953/5974/3c99fd9f/wms.antena3tv.com:81/buenafuente/videos/buena5_33_56.wmv
[04:30] <mvo> mdz: can I send you a diff for review? 
[04:30] <trulux> that's so funny
[04:31] <pitti> mdz: btw, I analyzed all read() and write() calls, the numerous EAGAIN errors (which are not directly intercepted) are not the reason for the breakage
[04:31] <pitti> b0rk b0rk b0rk
[04:31] <mdz> mvo: ok
[04:31] <infinity> mdz : That'd be the one.  The fixed version doesn't create transaction logs by default. :)
[04:31] <thom> seb128: is it just me, or is the pango source package a total horror show
[04:31] <mvo> mdz: thanks
[04:32] <pitti> seb128: but since it was in eternal sleep, it's a kernel bug after all, so we can just spank fabbione and go home :-)
[04:32] <mdz> pitti: :-/
[04:32] <mdz> infinity: what else is different about it?
[04:33] <infinity> mdz : Two months of minor bugfiz development?... It could take a while to sort the diff.
[04:34] <infinity> mdz : There haven't been any new bugs opened against it for ages, if that counts for anything.
[04:34] <fabbione> pitti: uh what kernel bug?
[04:35] <infinity> mdz : OTOH, no buntu user has complained about the bug, and I doubt it'd hurt to ship with it.  So, whatever seems the best compromise.
[04:35] <pitti> fabbione: martin    7458  0.3  0.1   2520  1204 ?        T    16:27   0:01 /usr/lib/gamin/gam_server
[04:35] <pitti> fabbione: mind the 'T'
[04:35] <fabbione> pitti: fix gam_server... 
[04:36] <fabbione> T    Stopped, either by a job control signal or because it is being traced.
[04:36] <pitti> yeah
[04:37] <pitti> fabbione: oh sorry, mixed that up with 'D'
[04:37] <fabbione> D    Uninterruptible sleep (usually IO)
[04:37] <pitti> fabbione: just tried to blame sb else... :-P
[04:37] <fabbione> that is due to the fact that your hw sucks at I/O
[04:37] <pitti> fabbione: yeah, 'D' is what happened to hald from time to time
[04:38] <abelli> mvo: how do you thing about a synaptic's extension that let's you control (install, view, unistall... ) packages on multiple machines? is this already possible?
[04:39] <mvo> abelli: only indirect with --set-selections and "Save selections2
[04:39] <mvo> abelli: you can easily clone package lists
[04:40] <fabbione> i guess compiling kdebindings is quite memory consuming
[04:40] <fabbione> or there is a royal memoryleak somewhere
[04:40] <abelli> mvo: oh right. thank you.
[04:41] <seb128> thom: like glib/gtk 
[04:42] <thom> seb128: anyway, can i upload the fix for 8259 please? :-)
[04:43] <Lathiat> thom: woo for firefox bug :)
[04:43] <seb128> thom: sure
[04:43] <thom> seb128: k, thanks
[04:43] <infinity> elmo : Can we get 'neon' synced?.. The only two changes are a fix for an RC FTBFS and a one-line fix for a segfault.
[04:44] <thom> Lathiat: uploaded; you'll need to restart firefox after you get the new pango
[04:45] <seb128> thom: thank you :)
[04:45] <Lathiat> thom: :)
[04:45] <Lathiat> thom: has anyone filed a bug about italic text moving around when its highlighted?
[04:45] <Lathiat> (that you know of off-hand)
[04:47] <thom> Lathiat: i'm pretty sure there was one which i resolved ages ago because no-one could reproduce it anymore
[04:47] <Lathiat> ah
[04:47] <Lathiat> i might try dig it up, happens notably on slashdot for me
[04:48] <thom>  /. is a law unto itself
[04:48] <thom> there are stacks of rendering problems that only happen on /.
[04:48] <ups> thom: that happens to me too, on any italic text on other sites as well
[04:49] <ups> thom: any way i can help?
[04:50] <froud> ogra: how to start hwdb-clinet from the prompt?
[04:51] <trulux> mimms: segmentation fault
[04:51] <thom> ups: become an expert on mozilla rendering and fix it
[04:51] <ogra> froud, you shouldnt do that...but its possible with hwdb-gui
[04:51] <thom> ups: i can't reproduce with 1.0.2
[04:51] <froud> ogra: why shouldn't?
[04:51] <maswan> thom: I can, right now
[04:52] <ups> thom: i've got 1.0.2 too
[04:52] <maswan> thom: mozilla-firefox: 1.0.2-0ubuntu2
[04:53] <ogra> froud, it starts anothe program after the questionnaire (the sending part is separated...) i had bugreports of people closing the terminal before hwdb-send is run
[04:53] <froud> ok, good to know
[04:53] <ogra> froud, in fact i'm considering to disable runningthe gui from a terminal at all for hoary....
[04:54] <ogra> froud, its worse enough to have a .desktop entry now (the button in dvice manager is better because it ensures the right hal version is installed)
[04:54] <thom> argh, ok. i see it on one box but not the others
[04:55] <ups> thom: i don't think i can become a moz rendering expert, but thought you should know that it is still present. doesn't bother me that much
[04:56] <infinity> thom : BTW, not sure if you noticed above, but as the Mozilla guy, you should be aware that enigmail needs a bump to be happy with tbird 1.0.2 / moz-mail 1.7.6.
[04:56] <thom> infinity: bleah
[04:57] <infinity> thom : lamont already filed an FTBFS.  A new version is in Sid.
[04:59] <thom> infinity: thanks
[05:00] <thom> mdz: can i sync enigmail - new debian version just adds support for moz 1.7.6 and tbird...
[05:00] <mdz> thom: yes
[05:00] <thom> elmo: please sync enigmail from unstable
[05:02] <mdz> thom: did you investigate / clear up whatever went wrong with the auto-torrenting for RC?
[05:02] <fabbione> smurfix: ping?
[05:02] <smurfix> fabbione: 
[05:02] <thom> mdz: investigating yes, will be testing
[05:02] <fabbione> smurfix: i have some issues building console-data on sparc (a machine keyboardless)
[05:02] <infinity> lamont : I can't reproduce your libgd2 build failure on an up-to-date hoary/powerpc.
[05:02] <fabbione> smurfix: it keeps failing console-data postinst
[05:03] <fabbione> Looking for keymap to install:
[05:03] <fabbione> NONE
[05:03] <fabbione> Usage: install-keymap [ keymap_file | NONE | KERNEL ] 
[05:03] <fabbione> [BOOM] 
[05:03] <fabbione> smurfix: do you have any clue of what is wrong?
[05:03] <fabbione> it started to happen 3/4 uploads ago
[05:04] <infinity> lamont : Timestamp skews, probably, though.  Want me to add touch magic to debian/rules, or just ignore it?
[05:04] <smurfix> fabbione: Huh, never saw that, didn't change anything in that corner of the code. You want me to look into it?
[05:04] <fabbione> smurfix: that would be nice. note that it happens only in non-interactive mode
[05:05] <fabbione> smurfix: if install it manually with a control terminal, it asks me to answer a question.
[05:05] <fabbione> smurfix: problably on out buildd is configured properly
[05:05] <fabbione> smurfix: but that should work nevertheless
[05:06] <fabbione> smurfix: do you want a copy of the changelog?
[05:06] <fabbione> meh
[05:06] <fabbione> build log
[05:06] <smurfix> fabbione: sure, mail me
[05:07] <fabbione> on the way
[05:08] <fabbione> mdz: am I go to upload a new kernel? 2 security fixes
[05:09] <fabbione> mdz: very clear and non intrusive patches
[05:09] <mdke> is it possible that an organisation as important and well organised as ubuntu can _still_ not have rebooted the website authentication server
[05:09] <smurfix> fabbione: That's what they all say ;-)
[05:09] <fabbione> smurfix: ehehhe
[05:10] <fabbione> oh talking of which.. 
[05:10] <fabbione> i need to sign your pic
[05:10] <fabbione> now i have the time :)
[05:10] <mdke> smurfix, btw is the german group organising some translations of the docteam docs in time for hoary release?
[05:11] <fabbione> smurfix: hey that pic looks like you ;)
[05:11] <smurfix> mdke: The guy you probably want to talk to is siretart
[05:11] <mdz> thom: judging by the times he was around last night, elmo may not be awake yet, probably best to email your sync request
[05:11] <mdz> fabbione: ok
[05:11] <fabbione> mdz: thanks
[05:11] <mdke> smurfix, not sure who to talk to... I sent an email to ubuntu-de but haven't had a response
[05:12] <fabbione> smurfix: you almost look like a kid :P
[05:12] <smurfix> mdke: as I said, /msg siretart
[05:12] <mdz> lamont: why are you getting all of these test build failures in packages which built before?
[05:12] <smurfix> fabbione: That pic is somewhat old anyway
[05:12] <thom> mdz: ah. 'k
[05:12] <fabbione> smurfix: is it ok if upload to the keyservers?
[05:13] <smurfix> mdke: The German people use their Forum for a lot of their work and I'm not a Forum lover person
[05:13] <smurfix> fabbione: sure
[05:13] <infinity> thom : Want to throw my neon sync request in that same email? :)
[05:13] <mdke> smurfix, ah i c
[05:13] <fabbione> i should probably add a pic on my keys too.. so they will look more bloated :)
[05:14] <infinity> mdz : So, the bogofilter bug; do we care?
[05:14] <infinity> thom : Also, apache2 fix uploaded.
[05:14] <smurfix> fabbione: Use your hackergotchi
[05:14] <fabbione> smurfix: nah.. i think i will just live with 12109280918 uids :)
[05:15] <thom> infinity: sure
[05:15] <mdke> smurfix, siretart says he's not on the german team and hasn't done any translation
[05:15] <fabbione> smurfix: uploaded.. it should propagate pretty fast
[05:16] <smurfix> mdke: oh well, I'll ping the German forum then
[05:16] <smurfix> fabbione: true
[05:16] <mdke> smurfix, thanks
[05:16] <doko> mdz: regarding an OOo.2 upload for hoary: advantages: builds with gcc-3.4/gij-4.0, so that it can stay in universe, powerpc build done und tested (by pitti and me), disadv: java components don't run, one patch to g++-3.4 still needed, doesn't affect any runtime library.
[05:16] <mdke> smurfix, it wouldn't do to have french translations but not german ;)
[05:17] <smurfix> mdke: You have an URL for the translation work?
[05:18] <mdke> smurfix, http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-de/2005-March/000783.html
[05:18] <ogra> probably asking in #ubuntu-de would be sufficient, there are some ofthe forum readers....mdke, i know of no german dev who reads forums like smurfix said....
[05:18] <mdke> lol
[05:18] <mdz> doko: so you want to upload oo.o2(universe) and gcc-3.4(main)?
[05:18] <mdke> ogra, here i come
[05:18] <infinity> mdz : I can't speak for all of lamont's FTBFS bugs, but the 3 he pointed me to were all real, for some value of 'real'... neon's FTBFS is fixed with the sync I requested, enigmail is FTBFS due to tbird/moz updating, and libgd2 is FTBFS due to timestamp skews on lamont's buildd (I see this a lot on m68k), fixable, but probably not worth worrying about, since a retry will DTRT 99% of the time.
[05:19] <doko> mdz: yes
[05:19] <mdz> infinity: sure, they look real enough, but they also succeeded with the same versions a couple of weeks ago
[05:20] <infinity> mdz : But their build-deps changed from under them, that's the issue for the first two.
[05:20] <mdz> infinity: neon?
[05:21] <infinity> mdz : For neon, kdelibs started depending on krb5 stuff that it didn't before, and neon build-conflicts with krb5-dev stuff.  The new version fixes that, by removing the build-conflict and explicitly turning off krb detection in configure.
[05:21] <mdz> neon build-depends on kdelibs??
[05:21] <infinity> mdz : It would appear so.  Or it build-deps on something that pulls it in.
[05:21] <amu> q
[05:21] <mdz> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), libxml2-dev, libssl-dev, libz-dev, autotools-dev
[05:21] <infinity> Oh, wait.
[05:22] <mdz> I would be surprised (and appalled) if any of those pulled in KDE
[05:22] <infinity> Maybe it ws in his chroot?... <looks at the report again>
[05:22] <infinity> The new version is still the better way to do it anyway, but.. Hrm.
[05:22] <ogra> amu, do you read/write on ubuntusers.de ?
[05:23] <infinity> mdz : Ahh, yeah.  It was just installed in his buildd chroot.
[05:23] <infinity> mdz : Feh.
[05:23] <mdz> grr
[05:23] <infinity> mdz : Oh well.  The sync request stands, as it has only that fix and a one-line fix for an SSL segfault.
[05:23] <amu> ogra: sometimes, not regular 
[05:24] <infinity> I need to learn to read more slowly, or stop taking his bug report titles (COnflicting build-deps) as gospel truth.
[05:24] <ogra> ahh, mdke was looking for translators.....and we just recognized that there are not many german forum reading devs :)
[05:24] <ogra> amu ^
[05:25] <mdke> the ubuntu-de list doesn't get much traffic?
[05:25] <mdz> infinity: I didn't see a sync request in my mailbox
[05:26] <mdz> those should be CCed to me
[05:26] <ogra> mdke, 820 mails since the start (i was the second subscriber so my archive is complete)
[05:26] <mdz> daniels: ping?
[05:26] <infinity> mdz : It was in IRC.  I also just asked thom to takc it on the end of his enigmail request.
[05:26] <mdke> ogra, hmmm
[05:26] <mdke> ogra, s/traffic/attention
[05:27] <mdke> i might try another email, to locoteam leaders
[05:27] <ogra> hmm, probably traffic == attention :)
[05:27] <theine> the new GDM login screen's pretty neat I must say...
[05:27] <mdz> infinity: both elmo and I prefer that those requests go via email; the workflow is easier that way
[05:27] <mdke> ogra, froud has organised some african language translations
[05:27] <ogra> yeah
[05:27] <mdke> ;)
[05:28] <infinity> mdz : Kay.
[05:28] <froud> ogra: just Xhosa
[05:28] <mdke> we need to represent europe
[05:28] <amu> ogra: hehe, whats about putting it on rosetta?  
[05:28] <mdke> amu, sorry rosetta is broke at the moment
[05:28] <mdke> amu some of the vital documents are very short though!
[05:28] <infinity> mdz : What about the libgd2 timestamp skew failure?... If we start fixing those, we'll probably have to touch a couple hunderd packages.  Should I just close it?
[05:29] <ogra> amu, do any german users look at rosetta ? we need to announce to them that there is help needed
[05:29] <mdke> ogra, these docs aren't in rosetta and probably will not make it in in time for hoary
[05:29] <mdz> infinity: timestamp skews should be fixed; we've fixed all the ones which have actually occurred on the buildds to date
[05:29] <amu> ogra: me z.b. :)
[05:30] <ogra> amu, youre a dev, that doesnt count :)
[05:30] <infinity> mdz : Alright.  I'll plug the appropriate touch magic into debian/rules, then.  I so rarely see timestamp skews on anything but really slow machines, I didn't figure Ubuntu would much care.
[05:30] <mdke> ok anyway thanks for your help ogra
[05:30] <mdke> i'm off
[05:39] <thom> seb128: how does one update the timestamp on a transient window so it appears on top?
[05:41] <seb128> thom: open it with a timestamp ?
[05:43] <thom> seb128: (#8268, for reference)
[05:44] <seb128> thom: or you can play with gtk_window_set_focus ()/gtk_window_set_keep_above () etc, mvo has played with that he probably knows better
[05:44] <seb128> that's a nautilus bug
[05:45] <seb128> thom: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=170494
[05:45] <seb128> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169364 in fact
[05:46] <thom> cool, it's all yours :-)
[05:46] <seb128> I reassign
[05:47] <seb128> bah, comment conflict 
[05:48] <thom> i think we mid-air collisioned the reassign
[05:48] <seb128> yep
[05:48] <thom> oh well :-)
[05:49] <fabbione> pitti: ping?
[05:50] <zyga> hey
[05:54] <zyga> mvo: should I send patches or wait till breezy and something gets commited?
[05:54] <mvo> zyga: what you prefer, I can review patches, but I will only commit after hoary
[05:55] <zyga> mvo: I can wait, the diffs would have to be hand edited anyway 
[05:55] <zyga> mvo: what are the chances for KDE version?
[06:00] <pitti> fabbione: pooooonnngggg
[06:00] <fabbione> pitti: too late..sorry
[06:00] <pitti> fabbione: sorry, was away for a bit
[06:00] <lamont> if kde is installed in the chroot, it's because something in that path fails to remove cleanly...
[06:01] <fabbione> pitti: nothing important... we were voting the name for the kernel release :)
[06:01] <lamont> daniels around by chance?
[06:02] <pitti> fabbione: how could I miss that.... what's the outcome?
[06:02] <pitti> fabbione: Carnivore Carrot?
[06:02] <abelli> sabdfl: ping
[06:02] <fabbione> pitti: you will see it soon on -changes :)
[06:03] <infinity> lamont : If he's not insane, he's in bed, as I should be.
[06:04] <fabbione> daniels: fdclock is missing a Build-Dep on some cairo-xlib.h
[06:07] <lamont> infinity: I've found with this crowd, it's not "what TZ are you in?", it's "what TZ are you currently executing?"
[06:07] <abelli> wasabi: cia
[06:08] <infinity> lamont : DId you figure out why KDE was sticking around?
[06:08] <lamont> checking now
[06:10] <mvo> zyga: for a kde version? not bad
[06:10] <infinity> lamont : Tell me it's the 'x*-common doesn't purge' bug that was fixed in Debian a while ago, so I can scream.
[06:10] <fabbione> infinity: i don't think so 
[06:10] <fabbione> we would have noticed ages before
[06:11] <infinity> fabbione : One would think so.  Though, the bug lay dormant in xfree86 for several versions until it suddenly broke all the buildds.  Very weird.
[06:11] <fabbione> infinity: it must have been triggered by something
[06:11] <infinity> fabbione : I mentioned it to daniels and he said "we might have that bug"... Not sure if he ever actually looked into it.
[06:12] <infinity> I'm hoping he did. :)
[06:12] <fabbione> infinity: well.. changelog is there for a reason :)
[06:13] <infinity> Changelog isn't helpful if the bug was never there to start with. (ie: you guys may have killed it with your xorg repackaging without noticing)
[06:13] <lamont> Removing apache2-mpm-prefork ...
[06:13] <lamont>  * Stopping web server (Apache2)...                                      [fail] 
[06:13] <lamont> invoke-rc.d: initscript apache2, action "stop" failed.
[06:13] <lamont> dpkg: error processing apache2-mpm-prefork (--remove):
[06:13] <lamont>  subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 1
[06:13] <lamont> infinity: that, believe it or not, is at least part of the root cause.
[06:13] <fabbione> lol
[06:13] <infinity> lamont : Well, I just fixed that bug too.
[06:13] <infinity> lamont : Handy.
[06:13] <lamont> infinity: good.  then I don't have to. :-)
[06:17] <lamont> Purging font configuration of fontconfig...
[06:17] <lamont> Purging category cid..
[06:17] <lamont> Purging category truetype..
[06:17] <lamont> Purging category type1..
[06:17] <lamont> fc-cache: error while loading shared libraries: libfontconfig.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[06:17] <lamont> \
[06:17] <lamont> giggle
[06:17] <fabbione> lamont: bad!
[06:17] <fabbione> libfontconfig comes for X iirc
[06:18] <fabbione> but than.. 
[06:19] <wasabi> abelli, ?
[06:19] <abelli> ciao
[06:19] <abelli> ...
[06:21] <lamont> sudo rm -rf build-hoary-test/chroot-hoary-test/
[06:23] <fabbione> pitti: http://linux.bkbits.net:8080/linux-2.5/gnupatch@424cce15dqRorp5LwCSspurmm1KAsQ
[06:24] <pitti> oh no, not again
[06:24] <fabbione> pitti: well.. it's signed by one of our friends
[06:24] <pitti> yeah, I just saw
[06:24] <pitti> fabbione: 5 minutes after a hoary upload *sigh*
[06:25] <fabbione> pitti: exactly
[06:25] <Lathiat> that sucks
[06:25] <pitti> fabbione: well, it won't be the last one until release
[06:25] <fabbione> i am afraid not
[06:26] <fabbione> not even the time to create the pre34 branch!
[06:26] <|QuaD-> http://linux.bkbits.net:8080/linux-2.5/gnupatch@424cce15dqRorp5LwCSspurmm1KAsQ
[06:26] <infinity> Gah, stupid apache2 init script.
[06:26] <lamont> infinity: ross chroot pristene, neon given back, etc, etc.
[06:27] <infinity> lamont : mmkay.
[06:27] <fabbione> |QuaD-: ?
[06:27] <lamont> fortunately, I have a script.
[06:27] <lamont> unfortunately, the script doesn't know about udev
[06:27] <|QuaD-> fabbione: sorry :) was copy in putty, accidently pasted via right clicking the mouse :(
[06:30] <infinity> Yeah, I automated chroot creation when I had an overheating buildd that I had to keep rebuilding while trying to figure out WTF was wrong with it.
[06:31] <pitti> Kamion: ping
[06:32] <lamont> infinity: I have 2 machines, with 3-6 chroots each
[06:32] <lamont> s/2/12/
[06:32] <smurfix> fabbione: can you log onto the chroot of that buildd and do
[06:33] <smurfix> fabbione:       env PERL_BADLANG=0        /usr/share/console/getkmapchoice.pl 
[06:33] <smurfix> fabbione: (install console-common first)
[06:34] <fabbione> smurfix: in a minute.. yes
[06:34] <smurfix> fabbione: It probably prints an error / warning / whatever
[06:34] <smurfix> fabbione: with that postinst isn't able to deal with
[06:34] <smurfix> s/with/which
[06:35] <fabbione> smurfix: do you want the logs i guess
[06:35] <smurfix> fabbione: I have the log, but it's not in there
[06:35] <infinity> lamont : I only admin half a dozen or so, with 3 chroots each, but surely I get bonus points for them all being m68k...
[06:35] <smurfix> fabbione: it's backticked into a variable and never actually printed
[06:35] <thom> infinity: stupid points, rm
[06:35] <thom> uh, "ym". :-)
[06:36] <fabbione> smurfix: ok just a second :)
[06:36] <lamont> infinity: on the insanity scale, yes?
[06:37] <infinity> lamont : Well, it was an argument for the "everything should be automated" thing anyway.  On faster machines, I don't much care doing the same thing over and over.  On m68k, I kinda prefer to set-and-forget.
[06:37] <fabbione> smurfix: see /msg
[06:38] <smurfix> fabbione: Ah. So what's debconf doing thinking that Dialog is what we want?
[06:38] <smurfix> fabbione: That's a buildd, that should be set to None, methinks
[06:38] <fabbione> smurfix: no idea. but it has been like that since i bootstrapped the chroot
[06:39] <infinity> thom : Just fixed the root cause of the apache2 bug.  D'oh.
[06:39] <thom> what happened?
[06:39] <smurfix> fabbione: So dpkg-reconfigure debconf and the problem goes away.
[06:39] <fabbione> smurfix: let me try
[06:39] <thom> infinity: (i hadn't looked at the bug at all)
[06:39] <infinity> thom : In the ubuntification of the new init script, I missed a case where it would exit 1 when it should have exited 0. (no daemon running when stop() called)
[06:40] <thom> ah, oops
[06:40] <fabbione> smurfix: i will test later.. it's building packages for main right now
[06:40] <infinity> thom : S'ok.  The other fix (not failing the prerm on init script failure) was probably weanted too, so now we have both. ;)
[06:40] <smurfix> fabbione: shouldn't hurt, but better safe than ...
[06:41] <fabbione> smurfix: exactly.. 
[06:41] <fabbione> and since it's keeping up so nicely with main :)
[06:46] <infinity> Alright.  Bedtime for me.
[07:00] <Mitario> hi everyone
[07:00] <thom> mdz: does the new bug page seem ok?
[07:01] <pitti> bye guys
[07:02] <diamond> mvo: heimdal-kdc fails to install on amd64. bug filed.
[07:02] <mdz> thom: How about "Packages in the 'universe' component of Ubuntu"?
[07:02] <thom> mdz: sure
[07:03] <thom> mdz: hrm, note the URL you gave me is currently asking for username/password
[07:03] <mdz> I should probably update the Ubuntu description to mention main; I think I can do that from the web interface
[07:03] <mdz> thom: that's the URL that sabdfl gave me and swore an oath that it was correct
[07:05] <thom> mdz: k. i'm out for a few hours now but mail if it needs changing and i'll do it when i get back
[07:15] <sabdfl> mdz: hmm... i may have got the wrong url
[07:17] <thom> sabdfl,mdz: dholbach put https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs in his MOTU mail
[07:17] <thom> is that more likely to be right?
[07:17] <sabdfl> mdz: bradb wants https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs which is not quite right but better
[07:18] <thom> sabdfl: done
[07:19] <froud> ogra: is there a web page which explains how the data collected by Ubuntu Device Database is used with reference to users privacy rights?
[07:19] <sabdfl> thom: thanksbot
[07:19] <thom> sabdfl: *g*
[07:20] <thom> (time to exercise what little of my german remains)
[07:20] <froud> ogra: if not then I recomend we make a statement somewhere regarding the policy on this issue
[07:20] <ogra> froud, i'll write something....its just hardware data that gets collected, no privacy data
[07:20] <froud> yes, I see that from the code
[07:20] <ogra> nothing you could track a user with
[07:20] <froud> but we need to cover it, just in case ;-)
[07:21] <froud> ogra: still it is private information
[07:21] <ogra> except if the user wants it, he has the ooportinity to look it up by a unqe id he owns
[07:22] <froud> can you mail me details about this unique id or point me to a URL
[07:22] <froud> if this information is made publicaly available it does infringe certain rights
[07:24] <ogra> froud, if the datafile is generated a md5sum is made of this file....the md5sum is also the filename and is stored in ~/.hwdb....if you want to look up your data you can find it with it, but the server isnt able to trace it back to you
[07:24] <froud> ogra: is this database made publically available for anyone outside of Canonical where it can be used for research or commercial purposes
[07:25] <ogra> froud, yes, it will be .... but there is no server for public use yet, it will be there some weeks after release...
[07:25] <froud> ogra:  where is the server? URL please where I can check it
[07:26] <mdz> seb128: are you here?
[07:26] <froud> ogra: are you aware of the commercial value this database has
[07:26] <seb128> mdz: yep
[07:26] <ogra> as i said there is no server yet, its one cgi to make it possible to look up your own data and show some basic data, its at hwdb.ubuntu.com, but please dont make it public
[07:27] <mdz> seb128: so 2.10.1 is delayed, but we do not want to delay Hoary any further.  what do you think is the best that we can do to get bugfixes into hoary?
[07:27] <mdz> seb128: can we take CVS snapshots next week?
[07:27] <seb128> 2.10.1 is delayed ? since when ?
[07:27] <seb128> I'm not aware of that
[07:27] <ogra> froud, its currently a collection of flat files, so it wont ope with a lot of users...
[07:27] <mdz> seb128: jdub told me yesterday that it is delayed 1 week
[07:27] <ogra> cope even
[07:27] <seb128> jdub: thanks for saying me dude
[07:28] <Lathiat> saving?
[07:28] <ogra> froud, yes. i'm aware if its value, but what should i do about it :)
[07:28] <seb128> mdz: we will probably get a good part of tarballs, maintainers are not aware of that afaik
[07:28] <mdz> seb128: hmm, ok.  he did not say it was final, but "most likely"
[07:28] <seb128> maintainer will roll tarballs this WE/monday
[07:29] <ogra> froud, i wont start the real (SQL based) server before release, so this interim will be in place some time...
[07:29] <seb128> dunno when he wants to announce that
[07:29] <seb128> jdub: why delaying 2.10.1 ?
[07:30] <froud> ogra: You just have to make your user aware of how what data is collected, how it impacts privacy, and how the data will be used.
[07:30] <seb128> mdz: do we want to update stuff without code changes which have no tarball for the translations or not ?
[07:30] <Lathiat> froud: it does mention no personal information is collected
[07:31] <ogra> froud, dont you think the first screen of the app is sufficient for that ? it tells about all these things briefly
[07:31] <dredg> ogra: so what happens if 2 users run the app on 2 identical machines? :)
[07:31] <mdz> seb128: translations would be good, yes
[07:31] <smurfix> dredg: unless the machines have no Ethernet, they aren't
[07:31] <ogra> dredg, if they even have the same test results and the same comments, that actually great :)
[07:32] <dredg> smurfix: that popped into my head as soon as i hit enter
[07:32] <dredg> gah
[07:32] <ogra> dredg, that saves us one entry in the DB, since the same applies to both ;)
[07:32] <dredg> ogra: fair point :)
[07:32] <froud> ogra: it does but we must address things in terms of privacy and provide a statement that invites the user to exit now if there are not certain.
[07:32] <Lathiat> the applet looks swanky
[07:32] <smurfix> dredg: Unfortunately (meaning that we probably will get complaints about that) the Ethernet address is included in cleartext
[07:33] <ogra> dredg, but its unlikely that the bootlog and xlog data are the same anyway
[07:33] <Lathiat> froud: it also gives you a chance not to send at the end
[07:33] <ogra> froud, hmm...
[07:33] <Lathiat> i guess a warning could be put there
[07:33] <Lathiat> rather than the start
[07:33] <froud> yes but it must be plain and obvious
[07:35] <froud> ogra: while packaging and before sending the user should have a text message to prompt for final verification that they want the information to be sent. By clciking yes, they accept the terms of what ever policy an disclaimer you provide.
[07:35] <ogra> froud, i think whats written on the first page is sufficient, you are always able to click canel
[07:36] <ogra> cance even
[07:36] <ogra> argh
[07:36] <froud> Dont count on users reading, I did not
[07:36] <zyga> hello
[07:36] <ogra> froud, your own fault...
[07:36] <diamond> ogra: hum. the hwdb entry for my machine shows ram as being 507M instead of 512... is that expected?
[07:36] <zyga> what the HECK :-)
[07:36] <ogra> froud, its written there
[07:36] <zyga> this is the official artwork? :> 
[07:36] <dredg> zyga: yeah
[07:36] <dredg> last minute change for haory
[07:36] <dredg> hoary*
[07:36] <zyga> :-)))
[07:36] <ogra> diamond, what does cat /proc/memeinfo show ;) ?
[07:37] <ogra> -e
[07:37] <zyga> it sure looks good ;] 
[07:37] <zyga> (to be there)
[07:37] <zyga> but I sure hope it's going to go away ;] 
[07:37] <froud> ogra: better to add a prompt at end of wizard, Accept or Decline
[07:37] <dredg> meme info? :)
[07:37] <diamond> ogra: huh. 507480 kB. no idea why
[07:37] <ogra> diamond, i'm only collecting the data the kernel sees :) 
[07:37] <diamond> ogra: fair enough
[07:39] <zyga> BTW: who is on the happy picture/
[07:39] <ogra> froud, i really dont like the idea.... if its not for legal reasons that force it, i'd like to leave it as it is...
[07:40] <ogra> i think one hint that you submit your data online is enough...
[07:43] <ogra> froud, it will scare a lot of users more then necessary
[07:43] <smurfix> ogra: It does say no personal data IIRC, which kindof doesn't include the ethernet address
[07:44] <ogra> smurfix, yup
[07:46] <smurfix> maybe s/etheraddr/XXX/g would be a good idea
[07:47] <ogra> smurfix, do you _really_ think thats necessary ?
[07:47] <smurfix> Personally I don't but I remember the stink that went up when M$ basically did the same thing
[07:47] <ogra> there is no ip or anything....
[07:48] <ogra> neither routing information....
[07:49] <smurfix> ogra: I know ... it's not me you'll have to convince if/when somebody decides to raise a stink about that. I don't know how likely that is either.
[07:50] <ogra> smurfix, i dont even think it will get used or stored in the database, lets see, if i find the time before release i'll filter it out...
[07:51] <smurfix> ogra: Fair enough. 
[07:52] <ogra> heh, preventive programming
[07:53] <smurfix> ogra: So is every BUG() call in the kernel, this is just a different class of bug ;-)
[07:54] <ogra> heh :)
[07:55] <froud> ogra: it is up to you. I just ask cause I thought it may be a trojan for potential problems in the future.
[07:55] <froud> ogra: if it was me I would put clear Accept or Decline
[07:56] <ogra> froud, i will face them if they encounter me, but id rather have 1000 flame mails, then scraing away 10000 users by a extra question...
[07:57] <ogra> there are enough options to stop the process....
[07:57] <froud> ogra: I don't think it will scare users if they have the clarity of a statement
[07:57] <ogra> froud, it would make _me_ think twic if there were such a question....
[07:58] <ogra> froud, my GF too she says...
[07:58] <froud> ogra: and it should to. That is why if the user clicks Accept there is no place for argument and no place for trojan problem in the future :-)
[07:59] <froud> ogra: just my 2 cents
[07:59] <froud> later
[07:59] <ogra> froud, ok...dont take it personally :)
[08:02] <daniels> mdz: pong
[08:02] <daniels> lamont: pong
[08:02] <daniels> fabbione: eh, should be b-ding on libcairo-dev or whatever, probably it's missed out on an api change
[08:02] <froud> ogra:  no, I don't, I can always come back and say, "I told you so." :-)
[08:03] <ogra> froud, yeah, with every right ;)
[08:13] <mxpxpod> I know I've asked this before, but is there a reason we're using pbbuttonsd instead of pmud for powerpc?
[08:14] <daniels> mdz, lamont: unpong, going to sleep
[08:16] <Lathiat> daniels: you like late nights dont you :)
[08:18] <mxpxpod> thom: ping
[08:22] <lamont> daniels: oops
[08:38] <abelli> is it possible to install drivers at run time with the live cd?
[08:40] <mdz> abelli: #ubuntu, please
[08:40] <abelli> huh yeah sorry .
[08:43] <doko> Kamion, mdz: ok to upload a merged gsfonts package?
[08:46] <mdz> doko: minimal changes?
[08:47] <doko> mdz: the two exchanged fonts regenerated, glyphs added with daf's scripts.
[08:47] <mdz> doko: ok, go ahead
[08:48] <doko> mdz: ok, any answer to the OOo.2 question?
[08:53] <diamond> elmo: hey. sync request for hping3 from debian
[08:53] <trukulo> hi people, good afternoon/whatever
[08:53] <ogra> diamond, probably better you do it by mail, he didnt show up today 
[08:54] <diamond> ogra: right, thanks.
[08:54] <mdz> doko: if you can regression-test things in main which build with gcc-3.4, ok
[08:55] <doko> well, I need only regression tests for things which build with g++-3.4. will do tonight
[09:06] <mdz> lamont: I just received encrypted, unchanged copies of my key from you
[09:08] <lamont> mdz: yeah - the keyring on my machine hadn't been freshened... so it didn't see the sig
[09:11] <lamont> from the stupid perl questions department... given @x=qw(a b); how do I append "c" to the list?
[09:12] <ogra> with push
[09:12] <lamont> danka
[09:12] <lamont> danke, even 
[09:13] <trukulo> daniels, you awake?
[09:13] <ogra> yeah, thanks for the key, you were actually faster then me.....
[09:16] <Cube-ness> anyone know of the "kernels later than 2.6.8 panic (failed sync) in hotplug startup" bug? 
[09:23] <Lathiat> woo new gnome splash is good
[09:25] <mdz> lamont: is "@x = qw(a b c);" wha tyou're looking for?
[09:25] <Cube-ness> is there some way i can see what all happens in the hotplug boot script thingy? i'd like to figure out just what is the problem here
[09:25] <Cube-ness> i had to install a kernel form warty to get hoary to work
[09:25] <lamont> mdz: actually trying to conditionally append
[09:25] <jbailey> Cube-ness: Not trivially.  It chains between shell scripts, so even sh -x gets lost.
[09:26] <mdz> ok, push then
[09:26] <lamont>   foreach ${dist} qw(warty hoary) {
[09:26] <lamont>     push(@take_from_dists,"${dist}${flavor}")
[09:26] <lamont>         if -d "build-${dist}${flavor}/chroot-${dist}${flavor}";
[09:26] <lamont>   }
[09:26] <lamont> like that
[09:26] <Cube-ness> i just wanna know what to blacklist so i can use a new kernel
[09:27] <Cube-ness> i dont even get anything in any logs
[09:27] <Cube-ness> it just jangs
[09:27] <Cube-ness> hangs
[09:27] <Cube-ness> sometimes it spits an oops or a panic
[09:27] <Cube-ness> usually not though
[09:31] <Cube-ness> hell, i wish i knew what is failing to sync.. and what that means?
[09:35] <_froud_> ogra: a first draft in progress of the Ubuntu Device Database Manual source can be checked out (svn checkout http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TakingScreenshots) Do yelp on documen to view. It is just a start, but will keep you psoted.
[09:35] <_froud_> whooops
[09:35] <_froud_> ogra: a first draft in progress of the Ubuntu Device Database Manual source can be checked out (svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/gnome/ubuntu-device-database) Do yelp on documen to view. It is just a start, but will keep you psoted.
[09:35] <ogra> _froud_, great, thanks, i will read it...
[09:35] <_froud_> ah much better
[09:36] <_froud_> no need for much reading
[09:36] <_froud_> just so you know where it is being developed
[09:36] <_froud_> I will notify you once I have the draft complete, then is a good time for reading by you
[09:36] <ogra> _froud_, keep in mind there will be some things not yet included in the endversion (like a button that opens your online data for you)
[09:36] <_froud_> I will also ask other doc team members if they want to edit etc.
[09:37] <_froud_> ogra: sure, we will do it inline.
[09:37] <ogra> and probably a textfield with the id to copy paste it...
[09:37] <ogra> _froud_, i really appreciate it, thanks :)
[09:37] <_froud_> ogra: no worries I have a few apps in this state, document them as we go and make sure they will release with docs
[09:38] <_froud_> must go
[09:40] <CarlK> ogra - what is the name of the .wav that gets played for the audio test?
[09:40] <ogra> CarlK, guess
[09:40] <CarlK> test.wav
[09:40] <ogra> near
[09:41] <ogra> sound.wav
[09:41] <CarlK> audiotest
[09:41] <lamont> elmo around?
[09:41] <CarlK> figured it was something like that
[09:42] <Cube-ness> is there some way to get soem logging or verbosity fo rhte hotplug init script?
[09:43] <Cube-ness> i'd like to see where it bites the duct so i can report some bug
[09:43] <Cube-ness> dust too
[09:43] <Cube-ness> hehe
[09:45] <CarlK> you can make the scrip echo commands by changing the first line to #!/bin/sh -x
[09:46] <Cube-ness> so i can do that to /etc/init.d/hotplug?
[09:46] <CarlK> i just did
[09:46] <Cube-ness> ok
[09:46] <CarlK> im trying to find out what -e does, other than prevent -x from working
[09:48] <Cube-ness> hehe
[09:48] <lamont> -e says 'die if anything exits with non-zero status (fails)
[09:48] <lamont> '
[09:49] <Cube-ness> hopefully i can figure out where the prob is
[09:50] <CarlK> lamont - any idea why -e -x doesn't work?
[09:50] <lamont> it should
[09:51] <CarlK> -ex does
[09:51] <CarlK> "-e -x" does /bin/sh: - : invalid option
[09:52] <Cube-ness> #!/bin/sh -ex -lax
[09:54] <srbaker> -x implies -e
[09:54] <Mithrandir> fabbione: amd64 xen ; http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.emulators.xen.devel/8437
[10:03] <CarlK> ogra - Audio test, "Test again" clears the comments.. (anoying)
[10:04] <ogra> CarlK, sorry, might be a wontfix for hoary....
[10:04] <CarlK> i hear ya.. 
[10:05] <CarlK> nother one: how come when I hit "partial" it disables "Forward" ?
[10:06] <ogra> becaus we want more information from you what partial means ;)
[10:06] <CarlK> I filled in the comment, still no Forward
[10:07] <CarlK> ah, I have to pick Partil first, then fill in the comment
[10:07] <CarlK> I am getting good at fillin in that comment ;)
[10:07] <ogra> CarlK, yep... thats a bug i'll have to fix...
[10:07] <CarlK> want me to bugzilla it?
[10:08] <ogra> CarlK, nah, n need, its already filed...
[10:08] <ogra> s/n/no
[10:08] <ogra> but thanks for the offer :)
[10:12] <CarlK> "connecting to server (timeout 30 seconds)" has been on my screen for about 2 min now
[10:24] <ssbob> I've got a quick question about the Live CD
[10:25] <srbaker> ssbob, no
[10:25] <ssbob> How hard would it be to add back in "Copy to RAM" support?
[10:26] <srbaker> no
[10:26] <srbaker> hard
[10:27] <ssbob> bummer, thanks
[10:33] <CarlK> I wish there was a way to run the Live CD over a lan ;)
[10:33] <Echylo> is there a beagle package available?
[10:35] <CarlK> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryBeagleRunningHowto
[10:35] <Echylo> thanks
[10:35] <Echylo> could have find that by myself :)
[10:35] <Echylo> :s
[10:35] <CarlK> thanks for making me look that up - never knew it existed ;)
[10:36] <Echylo> hmm
[10:36] <Echylo> that doesn't work
[10:36] <Echylo> I have universe checked
[10:36] <Echylo> but it doesn't finds package beagle
[10:37] <ogra> Echylo, mono is currently being rebuilt, wait some days and you'll probably find beagle in universe....
[10:37] <Echylo> ok
[10:37] <Echylo> is it smart to install it from source?
[10:38] <Echylo> oh well
[10:39] <Echylo> let me just wait :)
[10:39] <ogra> no idea, i hav amd64 here and other tasks the playing with mono...but if tseng makes it, we'll have a easy installable package of beagle before release in universe
[10:39] <ogra> (and i belive in tseng ;) )
[10:39] <Echylo> :)
[10:39] <Echylo> ok thanks :)
[10:44] <jbailey> Anyone here running lvm willing to test a patch for me?  I've tested it on ppc with SATA, md and evms-managed md.  I'm about to test on ia32 with ide, but would like a test on lvm for completeness.
[10:48] <Berserker> hi people! installer cant find info about partition table of my IDE HDD. But  on the other virtual terminal in the same time I can list it by `fdisk -l` and mount all partitions to any mountpoints..
[10:49] <Berserker> what I should  do to install Ubuntu ?
[10:50] <lamont> Berserker: that's really a question that's best asked in #ubuntu
[10:50] <lamont> mind you, it sounds like you'll wind up fileing abug once you figure out what's going on...
[10:54] <dholbach> hellas!
[10:54] <mvo> hey dholbach 
[10:54] <dholbach> :-)
[10:57] <mdz> mvo: these missing refs in python-apt, what is their effect?  a memory leak?
[10:59] <mvo> mdz: worst case is that python throws a exception because it tries to free the "None" object. It needs a lot of calls to the affected functions but I really would appreciate if that could be fixed. 
[11:00] <Mitario> hi everyone
[11:00] <mvo> mdz: I think the patch is really safe, it was a stupid oversight on my part :/
[11:00] <mvo> hi Mitario 
[11:00] <mdz> mvo: go ahead (emailed you)
[11:01] <mvo> mdz: thanks a lot!
[11:01] <Mitario> is the wiki fixed? :-)
[11:01] <dholbach> Mitario: i can log in
[11:02] <Mitario> dholbach, i had a problem with resetting my password
[11:02] <dholbach> Mitario: hrm, don't know anything about that
[11:03] <Mitario> hrm, still shows me the http auth dialog
[11:08] <Mitario> hmm, i can login to launchpad, but not the wiki