[12:13] <Burgundavia> anybody here?
[12:13] <T-Bone> no
[12:13] <T-Bone> we're all bots
[12:13] <T-Bone> =] 
[12:16] <Burgundavia> looking for someone to ask about nautilus
[12:17] <Burgundavia> has the defaul behaviour changed?
[12:17] <T-Bone> yes
[12:17] <Burgundavia> s/defaul/default
[12:17] <Burgundavia> to close the existing window?
[12:17] <T-Bone> and that's a #ubuntu question i'd say
[12:17] <T-Bone> yes
[12:17] <Burgundavia> ok
[12:18] <Burgundavia> well I figured I would ask before I reported a bug
[12:32] <mvo> can someone make a proper english sentence from "forcing re-get of the signature file as requested"
[12:32] <dredg> context?
[12:32] <mvo> or is that good enough? 
[12:32] <mvo> dredg: forcing apt to re-get the signature file and not sending proxy control messages 
[12:33] <dredg> looks ok to me
[12:33] <ogra> mvo, looks good from a german POV ;)
[12:33] <crimsun> and to send?
[12:33] <mvo> dredg: cool, thanks. any captialization?
[12:33] <crimsun> where does the parallel structure break down?
[12:33] <T-Bone> you mean "get apt to bypass proxy ("pragma: no-cache") to get the sig file again"?
[12:34] <dredg> mvo: no
[12:35] <ogra> hmm, they dont get lesser.... http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/nullswap.html
[12:36] <T-Bone> ogra: did my yesterday's submission suggested you to look for that? :)
[12:37] <ogra> T-Bone, no, i nearly read all of the submissions, i noted it on the first day...the rate is always been around 9% thats worrying...
[12:37] <T-Bone> ogra: heh ;)
[12:38] <T-Bone> ogra: depends on the amount of RAM and the intended workload of these configurations
[12:38] <T-Bone> ogra: for instance, I don't have swap, this is meant and works absolutely fine
[12:38] <ogra> i already recieved mails by people that werent aware that they dont use swap
[12:39] <ogra> there are a lot of 128~256M machines in the list....
[12:39] <T-Bone> huh
[12:39] <T-Bone> then that's bad, yeah
[12:39] <ogra> and even my 512 swap from time to time here
[12:40] <adobbie> my computer would be toast without 400MB+ of swap
[12:40] <adobbie> rather the programs trying to allocate memory
[12:41] <Mithrandir> T-Bone: enough swap is useful for suspending to
[12:42] <T-Bone> Mithrandir: that's a point I didn't think of, fair enough
[12:42] <Mithrandir> (which is why I have ~2G swap on this laptop)
[12:42] <dredg> T-Bone: i prefer apps that are not doing anything to swap out
[12:43] <ogra> Mithrandir, http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/amd64.html
[12:43] <ogra> :)
[12:43] <Mithrandir> ogra: can we get links to all those pages on the front page, and more stats! :)
[12:43] <ogra> sure, if we have more then flatfiles ;)
[12:43] <Mithrandir> (what's the average clock speed for amd64 boxes, for instance)
[12:44] <ogra> funny number, i had expected more http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/ppc.html
[12:45] <ogra> Mithrandir, thats what we planned, but we'll need a DB first which i wont start before release....currently there is only this interim solution...
[12:46] <Mithrandir> ogra: ook.
[12:48] <dholbach> ok guys... i'm off to bed - have to help a friend moving tomorrow
[12:49] <dholbach> good night
[12:49] <ogra> night dholbach 
[12:49] <mvo> night dholbach 
[12:50] <ogra> whoops, there was a bug in the amd64 scipt....now its more realistic, thanks dholbach 
[12:51] <Mithrandir> noooo! :P
[12:51] <ogra> :-/
[12:51] <ogra> still more then ppc :)
[12:52] <Mithrandir> yeah :)
[12:53] <dholbach> bye ogra, mvo :-)
[12:53] <dholbach> ogra: anytime :-)
[12:53] <ogra> night, sleep well :)
[12:54] <dholbach> will do :-)
[01:05] <lunitik> sabdfl: lots of complaints about the new nautilus behavior in #ubuntu  :(  ... you know if you like it, you can turn it on yourself... but most seem to dislike it  :(
[01:08] <azeem_> who do I need to talk to for syncing universe stuff from unstable?
[01:09] <azeem_> sbuild_0.35 might be nice to have in hoary, it's got the distribution checks disabled and should work better with Ubuntu
[01:09] <Burgundavia> azeem_: #ubuntu-motu
[01:09] <lunitik> azeem_: I think we are in freeze right now... so you'd have to wait a week or so...
[01:09] <ogra> nah
[01:10] <ogra> universe is open til the end
[01:10] <crimsun> azeem_: just ask elmo
[01:10] <ogra> yeah
[01:10] <tseng> non-motu's need approval to sync
[01:11] <ogra> then put          iton our sync list in the wiki
[01:11] <azeem_> where's that exactly?
[01:12] <tseng> wiki/MOTUTodo
[01:12] <ogra> http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUToSync
[01:12] <azeem_> thanks
[01:13] <thom> mxpxpod: ack
[01:14] <mxpxpod> thom: hey
[01:14] <thom> mxpxpod: hey hey, wassup?
[01:14] <mxpxpod> thom: just wondering how the pmi is going?
[01:15] <thom> mxpxpod: waiting with eager glee for gnome-power
[01:15] <mxpxpod> I think we should replace pbbuttonsd with pmud in ubuntu
[01:16] <thom> i hope we can bin all of them
[01:16] <mxpxpod> that'd be awesome!
[01:16] <thom> i think we can probably do so in not too long
[01:16] <thom> hal+gnome-power is coming along nicely
[01:16] <mxpxpod> that'd be suuuuhweet
[01:17] <mxpxpod> thom: yeah, pbbuttonsd takes care of way too much
[01:17] <thom> yeah
[01:17] <thom> definitely
[01:18] <mxpxpod> I wish the guy would modularize it so I could just load the pm stuff
[01:22] <azeem_> ok, done
[01:23] <blueyed> Is amd64 considered stable? Had some issues with a Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra-9 and a 300gb SATA drive.
[01:23] <blueyed> I'd like to try the latest daily.. (have used the RC now).
[01:23] <thom> blueyed: works just peachily for me
[01:23] <thom> (but it always has, pretty much)
[01:24] <thom> blueyed: what issues are you seeing?
[01:24] <blueyed> it installed with grub on hd2 and gave "error 17" - changed it to hd3 and it worked..
[01:24] <adobbie> blueyed: and what is error 17?
[01:24] <blueyed> the installation now is kind of very broken.. there were a lot of segfaults during the post-install run
[01:25] <blueyed> filesystem not recognized..
[01:25] <adobbie> blueyed: did you run memtest86?
[01:25] <blueyed> no.
[01:25] <blueyed> should it be installed?
[01:30] <thom> blueyed: there'll be an option on grub for memtest
[01:31] <thom> lots of random segfaults sound bad
[01:32] <blueyed> thom, as a "boot" option? haven't seen it - but will try when rebooting. anyway I'd like to do a fresh install and need to burn the .iso therefor..
[01:32] <blueyed> I'm getting help in ##linux. thanks.
[02:06] <blueyed> just re-installed (using the same image), no errors.. all I've changed with the hardware was another SATA port on the board..
[02:07] <adobbie> that's bad
[02:08] <CarlK> ogra - can you make me an mp3 of sound.wav that should sound the same?
[02:08] <ogra> CarlK, not now...
[02:09] <CarlK> (I just made one with lame, and it sounds like my cat
[02:09] <adobbie> ha
[02:09] <adobbie> try setting 320kbps encoding
[02:09] <CarlK> ogra - the goal is to play it on a MPIO mp3 player, which shold play it "right"
[02:10] <ogra> CarlK, usecase ?
[02:10] <CarlK> adobbie - I did
[02:10] <CarlK> ogra - to know what the sample sound should sound like.  so far I her 5 slightly different soudns on 5 different boxes
[02:11] <adobbie> CarlK: are you using the same speakers on all machines?
[02:11] <CarlK> there is a high frequency "hiss" that doesn't sound like it should be there
[02:11] <CarlK> yes - good set of head phones
[02:11] <tseng> hm no daniels
[02:12] <adobbie> sounds cards will sound different
[02:12] <ogra> CarlK, play it on a frieds box, its no perfect recording or anything...i could also have taken a pig squeek recorded through a can phone, its just a test if your system sounds work
[02:12] <adobbie> CarlK: any particular setup sound best?
[02:13] <CarlK> adobbie - yes, but now I forget wich... wanted to figure out what I should be hearing before I comment on how it sounds
[02:16] <CarlK> hmm, mabe the mpio doesnt like 320kbs
[02:16] <CarlK> http://dev.personnelware.com/carl/temp/Apr01/sound.mp3
[02:16] <blueyed> What about integrating pppoeconf into the install process (with network setup)?
[02:20] <ogra> CarlK, sonds like the wav
[02:21] <CarlK> good - thanks
[02:36] <koke> http://koke.amedias.org/2005/04/02/spatial-mess-prevention/
[02:36] <koke> give me opinions :D
[02:37] <Burgundavia> thank you koke!!
[02:37] <Burgundavia> koke: can you post that to the -devel mailing list?
[02:38] <Burgundavia> so we can get some discussion on it?
[02:38] <koke> Burgundavia: it's already in the way :)
[02:42] <koke> oops, I sent it from the wrong address
[02:43] <koke> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-April/006462.html
[02:43] <koke> going to sleep now :)
[02:43] <koke> bye all
[03:03] <zul> hey
[03:55] <daniels> lamont: patch merged
[03:58] <zul> heh new nvidia drivers
[04:00] <lamont> daniels: thanks muchly
[04:01] <daniels> zul: AGAIN?
[04:02] <daniels> phew, it's still 7174
[04:11] <zul> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_1.0-7174.html
[04:11] <daniels> yeah, 7174
[04:12] <zul> ah...fabbione would have heart attack :)
[04:12] <daniels> i'm packaging 7174 now anyway
[04:12] <zul> ah
[04:20] <adobbie> and I just got 7167 installed
[04:39] <daniels> is anyone else seeing gnome-terminal leak more memory than ... anything ever should?
[04:39] <daniels> mine seems to leak in the order of 500MB a day
[04:40] <crimsun> will hoary/universe have security updates, too?
[05:07] <robertj> heya all, I was just checking the listservs, did nautilus get browse mode enabled by default?
[05:08] <Lathiat> robertj: no, spatial mode was hacked to close the window behind it when you open a new folder as if you where middle clicking (and middle clicking does what a left click did)
[05:09] <robertj> oh, hrmm, I don't know how I feel about that
[05:09] <Burgundavia> this is going to be a lively debate
[05:09] <Lathiat> I think the biggest issue
[05:09] <Lathiat> over any issues of whether its good or bad
[05:09] <Burgundavia> tehre are threads on ubuntu devel and ubuntu
[05:09] <Lathiat> is that it was done like what, 5 days before release now?
[05:10] <Burgundavia> 7 actually
[05:10] <robertj> Lathiat: that's not in hoary is it?
[05:10] <Burgundavia> it will be
[05:11] <Lathiat> robertj: it is
[05:11] <Lathiat> as of yesterday
[05:12] <Burgundavia> by hoary, I think you mean the released version
[05:12] <Burgundavia> correct?
[05:12] <robertj> Lathiat: HoMM3 combined with a wine regression has made that difficult for me to test ;)
[05:12] <Lathiat> HoMM3?
[05:12] <robertj> Burg: yeah
[05:12] <Lathiat> ah, i meant in the archive
[05:12] <robertj> Lathiat: heroes of might and magic 3 ;)
[05:12] <Lathiat> which it is
[05:12] <Lathiat> and i assume its for hoary
[05:12] <Lathiat> since its gone in :)
[05:13] <robertj> hoary is suppsed to be out Wed right?
[05:14] <robertj> NM, next Mondayish
[05:14] <robertj> the 8th
[05:15] <minghua> robertj: That's Friday :-)
[05:15] <robertj> doh!
[05:15] <robertj> ;)
[05:16] <lamont> "week of [next monday] "
[05:17] <robertj> yeah
[05:17] <robertj> just not clicking
[05:18] <robertj> I really dislike the idea of closing windows in spatial mode. What advantage does that give you over browse mode?
[05:18] <HrdwrBoB> it's more intuitive
[05:18] <robertj> HrdwrBoB: Why not just put it in browse mode
[05:19] <HrdwrBoB> robertj: if you want to, do
[05:19] <HrdwrBoB> after using spatial mode for a few months
[05:19] <HrdwrBoB> it's now much much easier
[05:20] <robertj> lamont: Browse Mode wouldn't move the window or change it's size and would offer the usual browse menus and such
[05:26] <lamont> robertj: and this is nautilus, or what?
[05:27] <robertj> lamont: ?
[05:27] <lamont> robertj: don't mind me - just rambling
[05:27] <jdub> robertj: it was a sabdfl request. we'll see how it goes.
[05:27] <robertj> lamont: oky, but yeah it's nautilus
[05:27] <robertj> lamont: it does feel late, I think its planet.gnome.org withdrawl
[05:28] <jdub> withdrawl?
[05:28] <robertj> I miss reading them ;)
[05:28] <daniels> robertj: planetkde.org
[05:28] <robertj> hehe
[05:28] <lamont> robertj: yeah - I hear jdub raped planet.gnome too, eh?>
[05:29] <daniels> heh
[05:29] <daniels> planet debian is just a full-page photo of elmo
[05:29] <jdub> i can't believe people would use that word about a login screen joke
[05:29] <robertj> most users have like 15 files and can't manage swapping between the file manager and one other window, never the less 5 windows
[05:29] <robertj> but the same users are then going to close that window, go to the desktop, click the Filesystem, and start from scratch
[05:30] <robertj> scary but true
[05:31] <lamont> heh. planet.debian.org is now back to being planet.debian (swirl and all), but still says 'planet ubuntu'
[05:32] <lamont> Setting up hotplug (0.0.20040329-16ubuntu17) ...
[05:32] <lamont> grep: /etc/network/interfaces: No such file or directory
[05:32] <lamont> bad hotplug
[05:33] <robertj> ooh that sounds like not fun
[05:34] <lamont> OTOH, the scriptage is now much better,.
[05:34] <lamont> adding breezy is simply a matter of 'sudo build-chroot buildd breezy; touch buildd.conf'
[05:34] <lamont> well, given a breezy.buildd in the right place, that is.
[05:35] <lamont> and an archive to back it up.. :-)
[05:36] <robertj> breezy doesn't strike me the way warty or hoary do
[05:36] <robertj> it seems like the forrunner of dandy dolphin or something
[05:38] <adobbie> easy breezy
[05:39] <robertj> breezy is never used around here except as a way to insult someone's intelligence
[05:40] <robertj> or the wind "it's breezy outside"
[05:48] <robertj> I'm all excited, got a new machine coming at work that will be happy running Breezy ;)
[05:50] <jdub> http://distrowatch.com/stats.php?section=popularity
[05:50] <jdub> look at those leads
[05:51] <Lathiat> wow
[05:51] <robertj> ooh, almost over the top
[05:54] <robertj> would it be considered cheating to do a /usr/local/bin/everybody wget http://distrowatch.com/ubuntu ;)
[05:59] <robertj> hoary has been interesting to watch, it's a big step forward but alot of it was stuff that wasn't planned and alot of the planned stuff isn't going to make it in
[07:00] <tseng> jdub: ping
[07:01] <jdub> tseng: pong!
[07:01] <jdub> tseng: hey hey hey!
[07:01] <tseng> hi jdub :P
[07:02] <tseng> ill probably be putting packages up tommorow
[07:02] <tseng> im almost finished making a mess of mono
[07:02] <jdub> 1.1.x?
[07:02] <tseng> well, i need to redo *
[07:02] <jdub> ugh
[07:02] <tseng> mono, gtk-sharp, gtk-sharp2, dbus-mono, muine, etc, etc
[07:02] <tseng> monodoc
[07:02] <tseng> im "finished" all thats listed
[07:03] <jdub> far out
[07:03] <tseng> tomboy and some others to go
[07:03] <tseng> and they arent clean
[07:03] <tseng> fex the mono packages have files in more than one package somehow
[07:03] <jdub> so then we need to at least test f-spot, tomboy, beagle... anything else significant?
[07:03] <crimsun> muine, too, but I suspect tseng's on that already
[07:03] <tseng> im using muine right now
[07:04] <tseng> yes we need to test all of those
[07:04] <jdub> yeah, good call
[07:04] <tseng> im not sure how sane it is to go into hoary at this point
[07:04] <crimsun> well, you have 6 more days.
[07:04] <tseng> since the packaging is sloppy
[07:04] <crimsun> =)
[07:04] <jdub> well, we can always throw it straight into breezy
[07:04] <tseng> we can
[07:04] <tseng> id be happier to target breezy
[07:04] <jdub> and have maybe one series packages for hoary the people who really care
[07:04] <tseng> but i am not freaking out about hoary anymore
[07:05] <tseng> i spent alot of time complaining about how bad things were before doing anything :/
[07:05] <crimsun> to be honest, it's more sane to aim for Breezy
[07:05] <tseng> yeah
[07:05] <tseng> are those for sale?
[07:06] <jdub> yeah, we'll sort that out for you
[07:06] <tseng> sweet
[07:06] <whiprush> I will also donate whatever space you need.
[07:06] <crimsun> jdub: btw, the xfce 4.2.1.1 transition is complete
[07:06] <whiprush> sweet sweet beagle.
[07:06] <jdub> crimsun: eeehhhhxcellent :)
[07:06] <tseng> i guess i will need to get elmo my gpg key, mako hasnt gotten to processing it afaik
[07:07] <tseng> CoC
[07:08] <whiprush> crimsun: awesome work on xfce, that rocks dude.
[07:08] <crimsun> whiprush: jani did the misc plugins
[07:09] <crimsun> but the turnaround was pretty good, a bit under 2 days
[07:09] <whiprush> man, things really turned out well for the release.
[07:10] <crimsun> yeah, a lot of people pushing.  :)
[07:10] <whiprush> back around when inotify and gamin were blowing up I was crying like a little girl in the corner.
[07:10] <tseng> hahaha
[07:16] <crimsun> ya know, it totally didn't even cross my mind that the gdm screen was an april fool's
[07:16] <crimsun> I just restarted gdm and thought, "hmm, oh well"
[07:16] <whiprush> how old is mdz? he can't be older than 25.
[07:16] <fabbione> morning
[07:18] <jdub> crimsun: nutball :)
[07:18] <crimsun> heheh
[07:18] <daniels> whiprush: mdz is timeless
[07:19] <jdub> mdz is made of stars
[07:19] <schweeb> I spent a good portion of the day laughing
[07:19] <jdub> we are all made of stars
[07:19] <schweeb> between Fleck and the GDM theme
[07:20] <whiprush> daniels: I like how you young kids end up accomplishing what you do, it does wonders for my self esteem let me tell you. :p
[07:20] <tseng> daniels is like a whole year younger than me
[07:20] <jdub> dude, daniels has barely left pre-school
[07:20] <tseng> like a baby.
[07:20] <schweeb> how old are you daniels? 19?
[07:21] <tseng> robbing the cradle.
[07:21] <daniels> jdub: hey, I'm in uni now
[07:21] <daniels> jdub: that puts me anywhere between 18 and 60
[07:21] <whiprush> jdub: you gotta be pushing 30 or so. 
[07:21] <tseng> daniels: uni sucks
[07:21] <schweeb> whiprush: yea, you guys are old
[07:22] <jdub> whiprush: ohgeethanksman.
[07:22] <whiprush> it's the goatee. Adds a few years. Has to be.
[07:22] <jdub> heh
[07:22] <tseng> i was thinking 28
[07:22] <tseng> but 27 is nice.
[07:22] <jdub> and people were saying that when i was 16...
[07:22] <schweeb> poor jdub ;_;
[07:23] <daniels> jdub: and now, 24 years on, you look *younger* rather than *older*!
[07:23] <whiprush> hey is UDU going to be flumotioned?
[07:23] <jdub> whiprush: not enough upstream bandwidth
[07:23] <whiprush> taped then?
[07:24] <jdub> hopefully
[07:24] <jdub> though
[07:24] <jdub> see, it's not really a conference
[07:24] <jdub> it's a developer sprint
[07:25] <mdz> except for the not-writing-any-ocde
[07:25] <mdz> -code
[07:25] <jdub> well, there has been some of that :)
[07:25] <whiprush> mdz: so was I right? You're 25-ish?
[07:25] <mdz> ish
[07:25] <schweeb> hehe
[07:26] <daniels> schweeb: so yeah -- somewhere between 18 and 60
[07:27] <schweeb> daniels: lol
[07:27] <schweeb> well if you're a year younger than tseng, you're a year younger than I
[07:27] <schweeb> so you're 19 :)
[07:27] <daniels> ah, but tseng could be wrong
[07:28] <tseng> i am not
[07:28] <tseng> i stalk you.
[07:28] <tseng> across oceans!
[07:28] <whiprush> "well, I like your work daniels, I'd like to buy you a drink, what's your poison?" "Coke." "Oh ... I see."
[07:28] <tseng> whiprush: hm coke
[07:29] <tseng> whiprush: i met russel coker recently (another aussie)
[07:29] <jdub> ah, see, here, you can buy alcohol at 18
[07:29] <tseng> when asked if there is anything he doesnt eat
[07:29] <daniels> whiprush: (note that the ... yeah, what jdub said
[07:29] <whiprush> oh
[07:29] <mdz> they have no laws in Australia
[07:29] <whiprush> man
[07:29] <tseng> he says "corn syrup"
[07:29] <jdub> hahaha
[07:29] <jdub> haha
[07:29] <jdub> russell is funny
[07:29] <schweeb> makes sense, as it started out as a prison colony :)
[07:29] <daniels> as opposed to america, which has much more noble beginnings :P
[07:29] <tseng> and after dinner, of all the places to see in america
[07:30] <tseng> russel wants to go to walmart
[07:30] <whiprush> heh.
[07:30] <whiprush> I've met many non-americans that want to go to walmart.
[07:31] <whiprush> when I was younger we had some kuwaiti royalty visit our area. we took them to all the expensive malls and stuff. They didn't dig that. They dug walmart though.
[07:31] <jdub> i didn't enjoy my last trip to the US. i hope i will enjoy another one in the future.
[07:31] <whiprush> one sheik dude bought like 40 pairs of plastic sandals. 
[07:31] <whiprush> oscon?
[07:32] <jdub> yeah
[07:32] <jdub> stayed in portland and sfo
[07:32] <daniels> you stayed in the airport?
[07:32] <jdub> heh, no
[07:33] <whiprush> what sucked about it?
[07:33] <daniels> i kind of enjoyed my last one, but the whole place kinda freaked me out; even canada did, albeit to a lesser degree
[07:33] <jdub> it was very intimidating
[07:33] <tseng> how so?
[07:33] <jdub> needed a car to get everywhere (i don't drive)
[07:33] <tseng> enovegemite?
[07:34] <whiprush> ah, yes.
[07:34] <jdub> sfo was okay in that regard
[07:34] <jdub> except going to santa clara
[07:34] <schweeb> oh man, you'd hate Michigan
[07:34] <jdub> i had sushi after a business meeting
[07:34] <schweeb> public transportation--
[07:34] <whiprush> I felt the opposite in boston. you don't drive anywhere, you subway all over.
[07:34] <jdub> and asked the waitress where "the station" was
[07:34] <jdub> "the police station?"
[07:34] <jdub> ...
[07:34] <whiprush> hahah
[07:34] <jdub> seriously
[07:34] <tseng> whiprush: i took a bus in boston
[07:34] <whiprush> "station to what honey?"
[07:35] <jdub> everything is big
[07:35] <whiprush> yeah.
[07:35] <jdub> and corn syrup taste strange
[07:35] <jdub> and all the chips are corn chips
[07:35] <whiprush> our area is big on big stuff. The bigger the SUV the better around here.
[07:35] <jdub> yeah, portland was scary for car size
[07:36] <schweeb> whiprush: or my Cadillac :)
[07:36] <jdub> i couldn't get a taxi smaller than a bus
[07:36] <whiprush> I look forward to checking out sydney, never been that far out from home before.
[07:37] <whiprush> germany was real jorge-friendly to me though.
[07:37] <schweeb> mostly the beer, I'm sure
[07:37] <tseng> yeah, wish i could be there
[07:37] <whiprush> any country where you can drink beer at any time of the day is fine with me.
[07:37] <schweeb> score one for schweeb.
[07:38] <whiprush> jdub: how did you like the people?
[07:38] <jdub> oscon was pretty good
[07:39] <jdub> but very corporate foss hacker audience
[07:39] <jdub> lots of nice people, but plenty of ego ;)
[07:39] <whiprush> I'm hoping to get work to send me out this year for oscon.
[07:39] <jdub> i'm speaking at oscon again :)
[07:39] <whiprush> for ubuntu or gnome? or both?
[07:40] <jdub> both. pretty wide topic area.
[07:40] <whiprush> their conference rate is pretty expensive though.
[07:40] <kagou> 'morning
[07:40] <jdub> yeah, crazy
[07:40] <jdub> very audience limiting
[07:40] <whiprush> I dig the rougher, cheaper, unwashed cons.
[07:41] <tseng> we just did a 1 day $5 security con here
[07:41] <tseng> it was fun.
[07:41] <whiprush> harshy's midwest linux show in ohio is a good balance.
[07:41] <jdub> whiprush: you should come out for lca ;)
[07:41] <schweeb> lca?
[07:41] <tseng> linux conf .au
[07:41] <schweeb> ah
[07:42] <tseng> they dunk people in tanks of cold water
[07:42] <tseng> for fun and profit?
[07:42] <Lathiat> hehe that was fun
[07:42] <whiprush> well, I've got work sponsoring me for 2 stateside shows per year, or one abroad. I'm thinking guadec first.
[07:43] <whiprush> although, repeatedly dunking jdub for dollar donations to the foundation might be work a trip.
[07:43] <schweeb> whiprush: if I get this job, and eventually get into a position where I can ask for that, that'd be hot.
[07:43] <jdub> Title: Running with Scissors: Life on the Bleeding Edge
[07:43] <jdub> "Don't run with scissors!" Instead, take a holistic-safari-guided-tour of the
[07:43] <jdub> bleeding edge with Jeff Waugh, covering some of the sharpest areas of innovationin the Open Source world: GNOME, Ubuntu, extreme release management, and new
[07:44] <jdub> collaborative developer tools.
[07:44] <jdub> 
[07:44] <jdub> heh:
[07:44] <jdub>  * Why is everyone raving about the fresh new taste of Ubuntu?
[07:44] <dilinger> jdub: lca's full :(
[07:44] <tseng> with added corn syrup!
[07:44] <daniels> mmm -- come to lca and heckle me
[07:45] <jdub> dilinger: ja.
[07:45] <dilinger> i tried to register last night
[07:45] <whiprush> the last kde conference?
[07:45] <Lathiat> dilinger: yeh sucks huh :(
[07:45] <daniels> whiprush: akademy?
[07:45] <daniels> heh
[07:45] <whiprush> that one dude had it out for you.
[07:45] <daniels> i think that was martin konold
[07:45] <whiprush> yeah, iirc.
[07:46] <Amaranth> http://ktown.kde.org/akademy/Daniel_Stone_Freedesktop_video.ogg <--this?
[07:46] <whiprush> the look on the other kde guy's faces were awesome.
[07:46] <Lathiat> its a shame LCA didnt expand when they could
[07:46] <Lathiat> that said if it got much bigger, i think itd start t suck
[07:46] <whiprush> they had that "oh man come on, give the kid some slack" look on their faces.
[07:47] <daniels> Amaranth: yeah, that
[07:48] <Amaranth> daniels: good, i already have it half done :P
[07:49] <Lathiat> first thing i see in that vide is "X bling" :)
[07:49] <Lathiat> man we need faster cheaper internet in australia
[07:50] <Lathiat> someone i know in canada pays half the money i do for an ulmited like 400K/s net connection, i get 28GB of 50K/s for double the price!
[07:52] <jdub> Lathiat: lca could expand any year, quite easily, but yes, that's precisely why it doesn't. :)
[07:53] <whiprush> my only exposure to linux conferences has been LWE. And there was an obvious divide between the corporate stuff and the normal people.
[07:53] <whiprush> It was almost like they had 2 seperate shows in one building.
[07:54] <Lathiat> LCA is very non corporate
[07:57] <jdub> yeah, and lwe is a trade show
[07:58] <whiprush> I was so excited just to be there that I didn't care.
[08:05] <lu|away> LWE is the suxxors compared to, well, basically any other linux conf I've ever been to
[08:06] <lu|away> the energy level is high because of the big crowd
[08:06] <lu|away> and you get lots of projects under one roof
[08:06] <lu|away> but otherwise it doesn't have many redeeming features
[08:06] <whiprush> I did get to fanboi 90% of planet gnome though.
[08:06] <whiprush> + clee
[08:06] <lu|away> hehe
[08:06] <lu|away> you get 99% at guadec ;)
[08:07] <whiprush> yeah.
[08:07] <Lathiat> can't be as bad as my fanboying of linus, poor guy :)
[08:07] <whiprush> gotta make a guadec
[08:09] <whiprush> after udu all the only people left to fanboi for me are linus and asa. Then I can act normal.
[08:10] <Lathiat> whiprush: :)
[08:10] <Lathiat> i wish i could goto UDU as well, hah
[08:10] <Lathiat> be at linuconfau but
[08:11] <whiprush> luis is very fanboiable. I got to man the gnome booth when he went to lunch.
[08:11] <lu|away> haha
[08:11] <lu|away> we had a good time
[08:11] <Lathiat> haha
[08:11] <lu|away> glad to have met you, definitely
[08:11] <whiprush> likewise.
[08:11] <Lathiat> ive gotten over my fanboyism
[08:11] <Lathiat> .. i think :)
[08:12] <Lathiat> what i love about the free software community, most of the guys rock
[08:12] <whiprush> it's a good kind of worn out. 
[08:12] <Lathiat> every person i've ever bet bar one is really cool
[08:12] <whiprush> I mean, I'm a gnome fanatic, but even after one day, I was like "man, I don't think I could do this everyday."
[08:13] <Lathiat> and that one just seems to have it in for me for some reasona nd is otherwise ok
[08:14] <whiprush> google's post-LWE party was excellent, it was all community based.
[08:14] <whiprush> that was worth the trip alone.
[08:15] <whiprush> the debian gents were really ubuntu-friendly.
[08:16] <Lathiat> i just love the atmosphere with all the hackers etc, its great
[08:17] <whiprush> yeah
[08:17] <Lathiat> ah ubuntu-artwork update
[08:17] <Lathiat> i dont know that i want to upgrade :)
[08:35] <fabbione> smurfix: ping?
[08:36] <fabbione> smurfix: i solved the buildd problem. the issue shows up due to the LANG= mismatching
[08:36] <fabbione> smurfix: the buildd host was on en_DK that is a locale not installed in the buildd chroot
[08:36] <fabbione> as you can see from the logs
[08:36] <fabbione> that leads to the FTBFS
[08:36] <jdub> far out
[08:37] <fabbione> imho it should still be possible to build console-data even in that situation
[08:37] <jdub> the nautilus change is going to be such a joke
[08:37] <jdub> "Another issue: now that spatial-mode is more browser-like, you end up
[08:37] <jdub> with windows that jump around rather strangely. IMHO, this feels buggy,
[08:37] <jdub> even if it is intentional. Maybe a better solution would be to keep the
[08:37] <jdub> same size and position as the parent window.
[08:37] <jdub> "
[08:37] <jdub> 
[08:37] <jdub> HOORAY!
[08:38] <fabbione> ehehe
[08:38] <whiprush> it is rather late to be making that wide a change imo.
[08:38] <Lathiat> yeh same
[08:38] <jdub> it's not really a huge change in itself
[08:39] <Lathiat> any other issue aside, a few days out from release is thw worst time to make a change like that 
[08:39] <fabbione> there we go
[08:39] <Lathiat> because its very user visible and affects interaction alot
[08:39] <jdub> yep
[08:39] <whiprush> I use middle click quite alot, and this change really threw me off for a while.
[08:39] <jdub> i use shift-double
[08:40] <Lathiat> i only just learnt middle-click/shift-double the other day
[08:40] <Lathiat> the other thing is that backspace's behavior isnt changed which is kind of redundant :)
[08:40] <whiprush> the one problem with spatial is that you need to take time to "set it up" with the window memory.
[08:40] <whiprush> that throws off alot of people.
[08:40] <Lathiat> s/redundant/inconsistent
[08:41] <jdub> Lathiat: nor is shift-context-Open
[08:41] <whiprush> so for the first 10 minutes on a new install it seems like windows just randomly show up in places.
[08:41] <jdub> there are a bunch of side-effects like that
[08:41] <jdub> i am hungry
[08:41] <jdub> pia is playing 'paper mario'
[08:41] <jdub> and has been most of the day
[08:41] <jdub> even tickling isn't working
[08:41] <Lathiat> paper mario?
[08:42] <jdub> it's pretty disturbing
[08:42] <jdub> Lathiat: whackass gimmick to sell yet-another-mario-gamecube-game
[08:42] <jdub> (gamecube is my housemate's)
[08:45] <Lathiat> ah
[08:52] <fabbione> mdz: #7078, i get even another behaviour on my desktop
[09:00] <fabbione> select(17, [16] , NULL, NULL, {0, 0})    = 0 (Timeout)
[09:00] <fabbione> interesting
[09:30] <doko> good morning
[09:31] <zyga> morning :)
[09:37] <zerokarmaleft> morning
[09:38] <zerokarmaleft> does nvidia-kernel-common in the hoary repositories need to be updated from 1.6629 to 1.0.7167?  nvidia-kernel-common's version doesn't match nvidia-glx and nvidia-kernel-source...
[09:39] <fabbione> zerokarmaleft: mostlikely yes
[09:40] <fabbione> you need to update the entire nvidia* + linux-restricted-modules
[09:40] <Mithrandir> fabbione: another goal for breezy: amd64 xen debs.
[09:40] <zyga> xen?
[09:40] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i need to get xen working on i386 first :)
[09:40] <Mithrandir> zyga: virtual machine stuff.
[09:40] <zyga> ubuntu will ship xen?
[09:40] <Mithrandir> fabbione: you have six months. :P
[09:40] <fabbione> Mithrandir: + x86_64 is still a port in progress
[09:40] <zyga> Mithrandir: I know what it is - that's a good thing 
[09:40] <zerokarmaleft> i'm compiling the nvidia kernel module with a custom kernel
[09:40] <Mithrandir> fabbione: intel just released x86_64 patches.
[09:40] <Mithrandir> as of yesterday.
[09:40] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ah ok
[09:40] <smurfix> fabbione: Hmm, true, but debconf getting confused about its frontend just because $LANG is wrong isn't sporting
[09:41] <fabbione> Mithrandir: cool
[09:41] <zerokarmaleft> and the build bails out b/c of the version mismatch between nvidia-kernel-source and nvidia-kernel-common
[09:41] <fabbione> smurfix: i did test one change at a time. first the debconf (still failure)
[09:41] <Mithrandir> fabbione: so they probably need some work, and they've just been submitted to $maintainer, but that means the ball is rolling
[09:41] <fabbione> smurfix: and later the LANG
[09:41] <fabbione> Mithrandir: right
[09:42] <fabbione> zerokarmaleft: if you think something is doomed, please file a bug on bugzilla. component: linux-restricted-modules with all the details of what you are trying to do
[09:42] <smurfix> fabbione: Hmm, what was your $LANG set to when you did the debconf thing?
[09:43] <fabbione> smurfix: LANG=en_DK
[09:43] <fabbione> from the host system
[09:43] <zerokarmaleft> fabbione, sure thing...i've been scouring bugzilla to see if something similar was already posted
[09:43] <fabbione> zerokarmaleft: but add all the info as possible, like errors and so on.
[09:44] <fabbione> mdz: for what i can see here it's not gamin the problem, but nautilus
[09:44] <fabbione> mdz: i am going to add info to the bug anyway
[09:44] <fabbione> and i can reproduce it on my lappy in one shot
[09:44] <smurfix> fabbione: strange. If I had too much free time I'd look further into that :-/
[09:44] <fabbione> smurfix: that's ok. we can look at it for breezy
[09:44] <fabbione> it's not mission critical
[09:45] <smurfix> fabbione: true
[09:59] <zerokarmaleft> fabbione, actually it seems to be working fine despite the version mismatch...dpkg was the only thing that complained, so it registers as a broken package 
[09:59] <syn-ack> Man, this was mad nice, installing Gentoo from a GUI
[10:00] <doko> mdz, Kamion: I assume an upload to fix the typo in the control file for #8510 is allowed?
[10:09] <froud> ogra: you awake
[10:12] <zyga> syn-ack: gentoo has a gui?
[10:12] <froud> anyone know, is Ubuntu Device Database now part of the default install
[10:12] <syn-ack> zyga: no, Im installing through Ubuntu. Sorry. this was obviously the wrong window. heh
[10:13] <zyga> syn-ack: too bad ;)
[10:17] <froud> The document Ubuntu Device Database is in svn @ https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/froud/gnome/ubuntu-device-database
[10:17] <froud> if anyone is interested to edit/contribute, go for it
[10:17] <froud> for easy reading a HTML is at http://www.inwords.co.za/ubuntu/device-database/ubuntu-device-database.html
[10:21] <mdz> doko: yes
[10:25] <fabbione> mdz: it is more or less what i expected
[10:25] <doko> mdz: the only build deps for main on g++-3.4 are amd64 only: the mozilla browsers (including mzilla, firefox, epiphany), thunderbird and enigmail. rebuilt these (except enigmail) due to an unrelated FTBFS), they are still working. the same fix is in the current Debian packages and applied upstream. From my point of view it looks safe to update.
[10:26] <fabbione> mdz: if i change from dnotify to inotify (= less gamin work load) it takes much longer to reproduce the bug
[10:26] <fabbione> mdz: even on the slowest machine
[10:26] <mdz> doko: ok, thanks for testing
[10:36] <dholbach> morning
[10:37] <mdz> dholbach: morning
[10:38] <dholbach> mdz: how are you?
[10:39] <dholbach> everybody saw koke's nice patch to nautilus? http://koke.amedias.org/2005/04/02/spatial-mess-prevention/ ? looks like the better solution to me...
[10:39] <jdub> yo dholbach 
[10:39] <dholbach> hey jdub 
[10:40] <mdz> dholbach: tired
[10:40] <dholbach> mdz: i can imagine...
[10:40] <dholbach> mdz: going to bed is no option yet?
[10:41] <mdz> it wil be, shortrly
[10:41] <mdz> shortly
[10:41] <dholbach> i'm supposed to be helping a friend move... but he didn't tell me the adress yet...
[10:41] <daniels> mmm, bed
[10:41] <dholbach> so i have some more time for reviewing apt-get.org
[10:41] <daniels> i'm exhausted
[10:41] <mdz> that means you are removed from your obligation
[10:42] <dholbach> mdz: until he tells me :-)
[10:52] <fabbione> mdz: i am digging more and more into gamin and i don't like what i see.. at all
[10:52] <SteveA> i want to produce a ppp package that includes my own patch as well as the debian and ubuntu ones.  i've prepared the patch so that it looks like the others in debian/patches/ of what i get from apt-get source ppp.
[10:52] <SteveA> do i need to do anything special to get this patch included when i build the binary package?
[10:56] <zyga> anyone uses ndiswrapper around here?
[10:58] <Mithrandir> SteveA: if ppp uses dpatch, just put it in debian/patches and it should be applied
[10:59] <dholbach> SteveA: when you edit debian/patches/00list (if it's in there)
[10:59] <zerokarmaleft> zyga, i have before without problems
[11:00] <fabbione> ARGH
[11:01] <fabbione> mdz: gamin all of sudden decideds to stop monitoring the entire ~$USER
[11:06] <zyga> zerokarmaleft: what was your wifi card?
[11:08] <SteveA> dholbach, Mithrandir: there's no 00list in debian/patches.  i guess it must use dpatch.
[11:08] <dholbach> SteveA: is it in the build-depends-list?
[11:09] <SteveA> dholbach: no
[11:10] <SteveA> well, debhelper is.  is dpatch part of debhelper?
[11:11] <dholbach> nope
[11:11] <fabbione> SteveA: no
[11:11] <dholbach> is there debian/patches ?
[11:12] <SteveA> sure, debian/patches contains 31 files
[11:12] <SteveA> nine of the start with NN_
[11:12] <dholbach> then it uses another patch system
[11:13] <SteveA> where do i start looking to work out how this stuff works?
[11:13] <SteveA> debian/rules ?
[11:13] <dholbach> yes
[11:13] <zerokarmaleft> zyga, broadcom mmm i don't recall the model number...it was a pci linksys 802.11g
[11:22] <SteveA> dholbach: okay, got it.  there's a script debian/scripts/lib that is called by debian/sys-build.mk to do the patching.  it uses all the files in debian/patches/ that don't start with chk-
[11:24] <dholbach> SteveA: ahh, cdbs then
[11:25] <thom> no, that's DBS
[11:25] <dholbach> ah ok
[11:25] <SteveA> the reason i'm buliding a patched ppp package is that i want to try out a sony-ericsson pcmcia gprs+edge card.  it works just fine, detected as a serial device.  however, its pppd always sets the server addr as 127.0.0.2.
[11:26] <SteveA> windows pppd doesn't care.  linux pppd cares a lot.  sony-ericsson doesn't care.
[11:26] <thom> Kamion: when you wake up, a friend just did a test install on a machine with a badly skewed hardware clock, and got all sorts of evil messages; would it be possible to send the clock to the date of the iso build or similar if we detect that the clock is badly out of whack? (not for hoary, natch)
[11:30] <fabbione> hey thom
[11:30] <fabbione> thom: do you have the power to sync planet.u.c ?
[11:30] <dholbach> fabbione: jdub should have
[11:30] <thom> fabbione: it's cronned
[11:31] <fabbione> thom: jdub added my feed, but afaik either you or elmo needs to do some baz update
[11:31] <thom> oh, right
[11:31] <thom> meh
[11:31] <thom> wait for elmo, i'm off out in a minute
[11:31] <fabbione> thom: ok.. last question.. how do i get a blog to make a new line? just plain html in it?
[11:32] <fabbione> or anybody else...
[11:32] <fabbione> thom: thanks anyway :) have fun dude
[11:32] <fabbione> dholbach: dude.. help me a sec :)
[11:33] <thom> fabbione: plain html
[11:33] <fabbione> thom: thanks
[11:38] <trukulo> fabbione, pyblosxom ?
[11:39] <fabbione> trukulo: yes
[11:39] <trukulo> then as thom said, plain html, it's better if you just use paragraphs instead break lines
[11:42] <fabbione> trukulo: yeps.. thanks i was told
[11:44] <trukulo> i have one question: in recent studies, daniel stone has developed a new, faster boot process, that is avalaible in hoary. But my question is, if i just upgrade from warty, not fresh install, did i enjoy this faster boot too, or not?
[11:44] <trukulo> because i think my boot is slower than in warty
[11:44] <trukulo> or at least, sure that sid is much more faster than hoary
[11:44] <trukulo> in my computer, of course
[11:45] <Mitario> mornin'
[11:45] <trukulo> morning Mitario 
[11:55] <trukulo> daniels, you there?
[12:09] <koke> jdub: would it be possible for me to be in planet ubuntu??
[12:10] <jdub> koke: sure, mail me your rss url
[12:10] <jdub> koke: if you have a hackergotchi, send an url to it, too
[12:12] <koke> jdub: mailed :)
[12:14] <toresbe> hey guys
[12:14] <toresbe> how do I crosscompile to another arch from my ubuntu box?
[12:14] <trukulo> jdub, can i be in planet ubuntu, even if i don't speak in english and in my weblog i only tell fun stories and jokes
[12:14] <trukulo> ?
[12:14] <trukulo> like mako
[12:14] <trukulo> lol
[12:15] <Mitario> who's the webmaster for ubuntu btw?
[12:18] <jdub> Mitario: no one person is responsible for content/design/webmastership, really.
[12:18] <jdub> Mitario: henrik is working on the new design
[12:18] <Mitario> jdub, ah ok, because my wiki login seems to be broken
[12:18] <jdub> trukulo: not sure our audience would appreciate :)
[12:19] <trukulo> jdub, well, art is not always for mass public ;) so i agree with you
[12:20] <seb128> hi
[12:20] <trukulo> hi seb
[12:20] <jdub> Mitario: hrm
[12:20] <Mitario> hi seb128 
[12:20] <jdub> yo seb
[12:20] <Mitario> jdub, i did do a password reset, came to the password reset page, filled in my launchpad login on the http auth dialog and it said my password had been reset
[12:20] <ogra> morning
[12:20] <Mitario> i try to login, still same error
[12:23] <Mitario> and i had some really cool page about updatemanager to add ;-)
[12:27] <Mitario> brb, shower
[12:36] <fabbione> mdz: i found the bug in gamin!
[12:37] <fabbione> now let's isolate it even more
[12:37] <ogra> yay fabbione 
[12:37] <dholbach> go fabbione! go!
[12:37] <Burgundavia> yay fabbione
[12:50] <koke> elmo: do I already have my key in the ring?
[12:55] <fabbione> seb128: 7078. i found the cause of the problem
[12:57] <seb128> fabbione: oh ?
[12:57] <fabbione> seb128: dnotify backend is broken
[12:57] <seb128> oh
[12:57] <fabbione> read my last 2/3 posts
[12:57] <seb128> that's not the cause of the problem, I could have said that before
[12:57] <seb128> turning off dnotify is a ugly workaround
[12:58] <fabbione> seb128: it is. because polling more works fine
[12:58] <fabbione> there must be a stupid case in the dnotify backend for which it jumps one dir too much up
[12:58] <koke> seb128: what do you think about the nautilus patch??
[12:58] <fabbione> therefor removing the entire $HOME from the tree
[01:00] <seb128> fabbione: nice. BTW your comments should probably go on the upstream bug
[01:01] <fabbione> seb128: feel free to copy/paste them. i don't have an account on gnome bugzilla
[01:01] <seb128> k
[01:06] <fabbione> i wonder.. what could be
[01:06] <fabbione> we need to add more debugging output to that piece of code
[01:07] <fabbione> seb128: is there anyway i can gdb the gam_server ?
[01:07] <fabbione> or ask nautilus to use another gam_server instead of the default one?
[01:11] <dholbach> see you later
[01:12] <seb128> fabbione: http://www.gnome.org/~veillard/gamin/
[01:12] <seb128> fabbione: there is a page with the explanations to do that
[01:32] <fabbione> seb128: yeah i read that page and that's how i could see gamin stop monitoring $HOME 
[01:33] <fabbione> well i guess we need to either add a lot of GAM_DEBUG statements or find a way to dump more info
[02:03] <fabbione> seb128: i got it to crash once 
[02:03] <fabbione> but it is for sure a race condition
[02:03] <seb128> that will be funny to debug :/
[02:03] <fabbione> running it under gdb with one monitored dir, is not enough to reproduce the behaviour
[02:04] <fabbione> seb128: bah.. it's pretty simple
[02:04] <fabbione> we need to add a GAM_DEBUG for each line of the gam_server :)
[02:04] <fabbione> a script could almost do that
[02:04] <fabbione> but i need to take at least half day free today
[02:05] <fabbione> i will be back online later today and all tomorrow
[02:06] <seb128> k, thanks for the work on that
[02:06] <fabbione> no problem dude
[02:07] <fabbione> if you can manage to give me a GAM_DEBUG orgy on the server code, i will test it later
[02:07] <fabbione> reproducing the bug it's very simple here
[02:08] <seb128> k
[02:08] <fabbione> cya around
[02:08] <zenwhen> so sabdfl is actually Mark Shuttleworth?
[02:09] <tseng> yes, actually.
[02:09] <tseng> you may have seen his sly mug on your screen yesterday
[02:09] <zenwhen> yeah
[02:09] <Lathiat> eh yeh that was a good laugh :)
[02:09] <zenwhen> just did.
[02:10] <zenwhen> Its pretty awesome that he is so closely involved with the project and not just a money fountain.
[02:11] <tseng> yes.
[02:12] <Lathiat> indeed
[02:19] <sjmorgan> is there any way to compile a specific part of a package such as kdebase? i want to compile konqueror with debugging symbols but without recompiling all the other stuff that comes with kdebase
[02:21] <Robot101> not very straightforward unfortunately
[02:21] <Robot101> take it up with KDE :P
[02:21] <sjmorgan> urgh i didn't think it would be
[02:25] <dholbach> re
[02:28] <tseng> hi daniel
[02:28] <dholbach> hey brandon, how are you?
[02:28] <tseng> good, thanks
[02:33] <zenwhen> is there a command to apt-get a specific version of a deb in the repos?
[02:34] <Mithrandir> apt-get install package=version
[02:34] <Mithrandir> iirc
[02:40] <zul> morning
[02:41] <dholbach> hey zul
[02:41] <zul> hey dholbach 
[02:48] <zenwhen> I really wish ubuntu-desktop didn't depend on gnome-games :(
[02:48] <zenwhen> But I understand why it needs to.
[02:55] <skyrider> Hi guys. Maybe this channel is not the best place for my question but we should solve this problem ASAP.
[02:55] <skyrider> Some people from Russia wants to create official Ubuntu mirror in that country but they cant contact Ubuntu mirrors admins because mirrors@canonical.com doen't work:
[02:55] <skyrider> elivery to the following recipient failed permanently:
[02:55] <skyrider>     mirrors@canonical.com
[02:55] <skyrider> Technical details of permanent failure:
[02:55] <skyrider> PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 10): 550 <mirrors@canonical.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table
[02:59] <jani> skyrider maybe mirrors@ubuntu.com
[02:59] <liran> does ubuntu will be also DVD?
[03:00] <Mitario> is there anyone who can remove my wiki account?
[03:01] <skyrider> jani: Maybe you are right, but e-mail on this page http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Archive definitly should be fixed.
[03:04] <Robot101> liran: why? it fits on a CD. :)
[03:05] <liran> i prefer a DVD
[03:10] <Robot101> lol
[03:13] <zenwhen> perhaps he wants a simple installation of both kde and gnome
[03:17] <Robot101> he can download both CDs then :)
[03:17] <zenwhen> but there is a dvd image
[03:18] <zenwhen> I think his question was whether or not it will ship
[03:19] <trulux> fabbione: ping!
[03:19] <trulux> :)
[03:21] <trulux> fabbione: I've been looking at the different revisions of the 2.6.10 images, and networking security hooks are still not enabled, is it planned for Breezy? It was right in Warty's kernels but now, it's not and I need to recompile my kernel just to have that enabled :(
[03:33] <robertj> ooh sad, orinoco hardware lock problem still isn't fixed :(
[03:33] <robertj> is this a known issue?
[03:34] <zenwhen> My orinoco gold clasic works perfectly
[03:35] <robertj> zen: my laptop used to have this problem when resuming from suspend
[05:02] <pitti> Hi
[05:06] <zul> hey pitti how is it going?
[05:06] <pitti> great
[05:06] <pitti> did a biking tour with my gf today
[05:06] <zul> cool
[05:06] <pitti> it really starts to get spring here :)
[05:07] <zul> not here it suppose to snow today
[05:07] <zenwhen> it is cold and rainy here
[05:14] <zyga> zerokarmaleft: ping
[05:24] <zerokarmaleft> zyga, pong
[05:24] <zyga> zerokarmaleft: my lspci says Broadcom Corporation BCM4306 802.11b/g Wireless LAN Controller (rev 03)
[05:24] <zyga> zerokarmaleft: windows driver loads okay (the one I've got with the card)
[05:24] <zyga> zerokarmaleft: but nothing works really :/
[05:25] <zyga> zerokarmaleft: maybe you could send me your driver if it is not a problem?
[05:25] <pitti> Hi Astharot 
[05:25] <Astharot> hi
[05:25] <zerokarmaleft> zyga, i don't have it installed anymore since my router is right next to my box
[05:26] <zyga> zerokarmaleft: too bad
[05:26] <zerokarmaleft> zyga, but i think the drivers from linksys' website did the job
[05:26] <zyga> zerokarmaleft: thanks, I'll check them out
[05:26] <zerokarmaleft> brb
[05:26] <zyga> I would have bought a linux supported card but this was a very unfortunate gift :)
[05:30] <zerokarmaleft> i've got the same wireless chip as you, except revision 02
[05:31] <zerokarmaleft> i think there are significant differences b/w rev 02 and rev 03, iirc
[05:31] <zyga> zerokarmaleft: I'm going to try one of the drivers now
[05:45] <zyga> zerokarmaleft: the first driver doesn't work
[05:45] <zyga> last time both driver and hardware were 'okay'
[05:45] <zyga> this time the card was not even detected
[05:45] <zyga> well too bad ;] 
[06:22] <seb128> Kamion: have you planned to update the po files on p.u.c for the installer ?
[06:23] <zyga> zerokarmaleft: great, the card works :-)) kudos to you
[06:32] <pitti> Hi ogra 
[06:33] <ogra> hi pittq
[06:33] <ogra> s/q/i
[06:34] <zenwhen> found a good price on a huge lcd
[06:39] <zyga> BTW: where is the new calendar?
[06:41] <tuhl> why is ubunti not using ALSA for sound support?
[06:41] <sabdfl> tuhl: it does
[06:41] <sabdfl> tuhl: it uses ALSA for the low-level drivers, then apps are generally configured to use the OSS-compat interface that ALSA provides
[06:41] <sabdfl> and under Gnome, apps should use ESD
[06:41] <sabdfl> ESD -> OSS -> AlSA
[06:42] <tuhl> sabdfl: the macromedia flsh plugin does not working with sound
[06:42] <sabdfl> tuhl: can that be configured to use ESD?
[06:43] <tuhl> I dOn#t see any sound config possibility
[06:44] <crimsun> tuhl: that's because the flash plugin has a brain-dead dependency on a non-existent libesd.so.1
[06:44] <tuhl> crimsun: ok 
[06:45] <ogra> crimsun, so it uses esd normally ?
[06:45] <tuhl> crimsun: any possibility to fix it?
[06:46] <crimsun> tuhl: it has been discussed before, but I don't know whether there is a viable solution.  There is a workaround: as long as libesd0 is installed, simply ln -sf /usr/lib/libesd.so.0 /usr/lib/libesd.so.1  .  What an ugly hack.
[06:46] <crimsun> ogra: it should work, but there's that issue above...
[06:46] <ogra> yup, i saw it, but wasnt sure if it uses esd or /dev/dsp directly, thanks :)
[06:50] <tuhl> crimsun: it is working now
[06:53] <zenwhen> Hey. I was wondering why you guys don;t roll out a final update to synaptic in warty to include the hoary version, allowing people to just pop in the hoary install disk and do an upgrade from it when prompted.
[06:55] <pitti> zenwhen: how you want to force all users to actually install it?
[06:55] <pitti> zenwhen: okay, it could be made optional, but update_manager cannot be installed automatically
[06:56] <pitti> zenwhen: after upgrade, the user has to start it explicitly (see Hoary upgrade notes)
[07:01] <Jeeves_> Hi there, everyone.
[07:02] <fabbione> trulux: pong
[07:02] <fabbione> yo
[07:02] <trulux> fabbione: hey, just rebuilding the kernel
[07:03] <trulux> fabbione: btw, I will fill a bug for inclusion of http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/patches/ssp-propolice/propolice_1.2-2.6.11-rc5.patch
[07:03] <fabbione> trulux: enanchment -> breezy
[07:03] <trulux> fabbione: right
[07:04] <trulux> fabbione: is there any breezy goals page?
[07:04] <fabbione> trulux: see the UDU bof page. there is a big kernel section. But do not edit the page, since they are frozen.
[07:05] <trulux> ok
[07:06] <trulux> fabbione: breezy won't suffer any unexpected issue with my patch, I have tested it well, and also I'm testing it here, everyday
[07:06] <trulux> no performance hit, as we are talking on new syscalls
[07:06] <fabbione> trulux: i will still need to check what it is
[07:06] <Mowa> http://www.resellerads.com
[07:07] <fabbione> hey thom
[07:07] <thom> ello
[07:08] <fabbione> thom: if you have time, can you do that baz update for planet?
[07:08] <fabbione> i think elmo is still hiding somewhere :)
[07:08] <thom> i'm just about to go out again
[07:08] <fabbione> thom: pfft
[07:08] <thom> it's not exactly urgent, hey? ;-)
[07:08] <fabbione> nahh
[07:08] <fabbione> don't worry
[07:08] <fabbione> i will still love you
[07:09] <zyga> hmm
[07:09] <zyga> what is the motivation of using three layers for sound support
[07:09] <fabbione> zyga: 3?
[07:09] <zyga> sabdfl mentioned that esd is on top of oss emulation of alsa
[07:09] <fabbione> esd -> alsa (kernel) -> hw
[07:10] <fabbione> yeah
[07:10] <fabbione> that's for compatibility
[07:10] <fabbione> but the OSS layer is transparent
[07:10] <zyga> ah
[07:10] <zyga> I was wondering about latency stuff and such ;] 
[07:10] <fabbione> probably you can see it like this:
[07:10] <fabbione> esd -> oss (alsa emulation) -> kernel -> hw
[07:11] <fabbione> esd -> real alsa /
[07:11] <zyga> what is the advantage of using esd?
[07:11] <zyga> kde uses arts and gnome uses esd - all this doesn't play well in my experience
[07:11] <fabbione> zyga: because not all hw allows more than one application accessing the hw
[07:11] <zyga> I'm asking to understand
[07:11] <fabbione> so if for instance you run xmms and it locks the card
[07:11] <zyga> fabbione: so esd is like a portable mixer
[07:12] <fabbione> you won't be able to listen to your incoming mail beep
[07:12] <fabbione> zyga: kinda.. yes
[07:12] <fabbione> + it provides a standard interface towards applications
[07:12] <zyga> bu arts blocks the card in the same way that (possibly) esd would -- they both talk to alsa?
[07:12] <zyga> s/bu/but/
[07:12] <fabbione> so if for example a new sound thing will replace alsa
[07:13] <fabbione> it will be enough to adapt esd
[07:13] <zyga> I see
[07:13] <fabbione> instead of 0239209208381374982634 apps
[07:13] <fabbione> arts is similar to esd
[07:13] <zyga> we just port one
[07:13] <fabbione> exactly
[07:13] <zyga> could arts use esd?
[07:14] <fabbione> i dunno much about arts, but i think it is a replacement for esd
[07:14] <Mithrandir> I think there's a backend for it
[07:14] <zyga> so that k3b will still be able to say 'whoosh' while esd-backed xmms is playing?
[07:14] <fabbione> (kinda gnome <-> kde thingy)
[07:14] <zyga> pretty much but gnome and kde play well remarkably well
[07:14] <zyga> but their sound backends dont
[07:15] <zyga> (in my experience)
[07:15] <zyga> hmm s/well/together/
[07:15] <Mithrandir> zyga: you'd probably get horrible latencies, though, so unsuitable for multimedia but enough for boinks and beeps.
[07:15] <ogra> sounds like its time for somebody to start a new f.d.o project ;)
[07:15] <zyga> f.d.o?
[07:15] <ogra> freedesktop.org
[07:16] <Mithrandir> ogra: yet-another-sound-server?
[07:16] <zyga> Mithrandir: so it's not possible to make one of the sound servers a really thin client (something like an api wrapper)
[07:16] <ogra> you said they play well with each other except the sound :)
[07:16] <zyga> so that only one real server talks to alsa
[07:16] <Mithrandir> zyga: you could do it, but I imagine you'd have a fair bit of overhead.
[07:16] <ogra> Mithrandir, nope, but a standarized interface
[07:16] <ogra> the app backend ....
[07:17] <trulux> fabbione: the patch? provides kernel-level helpers for SSP/ProPolice
[07:17] <trulux> fabbione: kernel-level handling of process termination and stack smashing report
[07:17] <zyga> Mithrandir: overhead from copying memory block from one place to another?
[07:18] <Mithrandir> zyga: just having esd there gives you a fair bit of overhead.
[07:18] <fabbione> trulux: i still want to see the code :)
[07:18] <fabbione> trulux: and how intrusive it is
[07:19] <zyga> Mithrandir: I heard that Jack is great for its low latency
[07:19] <Mithrandir> zyga: with the kernel patches, so have I heard.
[07:21] <zyga> the sad thing is that instead of having to port one app to the new alsa
[07:22] <zyga> everyone ports each app to all available servers :/
[07:22] <zyga> and they still bite each other 
[07:23] <ggi> Does the current esd setup use ALSA's OSS emulation instead of ALSA itself?
[07:25] <trulux> fabbione: I pasted the url to it
[07:25] <trulux> fabbione: http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/patches/ssp-propolice/propolice_1.2-2.6.11-rc5.patch
[07:25] <fabbione> trulux: attach it to the bug please
[07:25] <trulux> fabbione: OK
[07:25] <trulux> :)
[07:26] <trulux> it applies to 2.6.10 with no fuzz
[07:26] <fabbione> mdz: ping?
[07:34] <trulux> fabbione: what package? there's no linux-image, same as the bug on LSM I reported some time ago
[07:35] <fabbione> trulux: use package linux
[07:35] <fabbione> open a new bug
[07:35] <trulux> fabbione: danke sehr
[07:35] <fabbione> like we discussed 5 minutes ago :)
[08:08] <jani> do you think http://sourcecontrol.net/~jmonoses/dch.diff would be ok as a devscripts ubuntu1 patch? it automatically adds ubuntu1 to the revision when necessary if the --ubuntu flag is passed to dch
[08:09] <SeanQ> Hi.
[08:15] <SeanQ> I know we've hit a feature freeze and an "every-freeze" with Hoary, but can you make it potentially possible to actually add a network in 'network-admin'
[08:17] <thom> jani: i take it you mean ubuntuN
[08:17] <jani> well yes
[08:17] <jani> it increments if there's already ubuntu
[08:18] <jani> or appends ubuntu if last revision is debian
[08:22] <jani> thom does firefox have lintian warnings?
[08:22] <thom> jani: only the "wrong number for nmu" caused by ubuntu numbering afaicr
[08:22] <jani> I am building NVU (from the same sources) and the maintainer says the warning it spits are the same in firefox
[08:23] <jani> oh so nothing like image-file-in-usr-lib ?lots of them
[08:23] <thom> (it's been a long time since i tried
[08:23] <mako> tseng: dude, i did process your key.. weeks ago
[09:08] <blueyed> about the installer: if I choose "leave network unconfigured" (due to lack of pppoesetup) I'll have no online repositories with the sources...
[09:08] <blueyed> ..and I must be/get aware of pppoeconf by google.
[09:26] <trulux> fabbione: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8551
[09:26] <trulux> fabbione: going to fix libssp and then we are done with it
[09:44] <dholbach> hey sivan!
[09:45] <sivang> hey dholbach , what's up?
[10:01] <zyga> pope is dead :-(
[10:01] <LinuxJones> Hi guys can someone come to #ubuntu and kick Neas` please he's using tor and trying to dcc hack folks 
[10:06] <dhonn> Nautilus has a back space bug
[10:06] <LinuxJones> Any of the Canonical guys here atm ?
[10:07] <Goshawk> please someone ban Neas` from #ubuntu
[10:07] <weiner5> when instlling ubuntu do i have to prep my HD into /, /boot and swap partitions?
[10:08] <dhonn> gnome-terminal has a backspace bug too.  When you hold backspace for a few seconds the terminal window starts to flicker
[10:08] <zyga> dhonn: are you using transparent background?
[10:08] <dhonn> nope
[10:09] <dhonn> default
[10:09] <zyga> dhonn: strange - I cannot replicate that issue here
[10:09] <zyga> which version
[10:09] <dholbach> weiner5: you better ask on #ubuntu
[10:09] <dhonn> now I cant replicate it
[10:09] <dhonn> nevermind then
[10:10] <dhonn> it was glitching a few minutes ago. im going to try to replicate it
[10:11] <dhonn> did you guys check out the nautilus backspace bug
[10:12] <dhonn> im guessing the behavior is suppose to close the current foreground window then go up one folder
[10:13] <dhonn> brb
[10:14] <dhonn> ok back
[10:14] <tseng> mako: cool thanks
[10:17] <dhonn> who maintains ubuntu-artwork?
[10:17] <dholbach> apt-cache show <package>
[10:17] <dhonn> jdub around?
[10:19] <dhonn> im use to rpm -qi <package>
[10:26] <mdz> dhonn: that problem is already reported in bugzilla
[10:30] <dhonn> i reported it
[10:30] <dhonn> its a bug i hope
[10:46] <mxpxpod> is there a network install cd?
[11:01] <CarlK> yes.
[11:01] <CarlK> kernel-headers-2.6-386: Depends: kernel-headers-2.6.8-2-386 but it is not installable
[11:02] <CarlK> this is from yesterdays' hoary
[11:03] <dilinger> CarlK: i think what you want is linux-headers-386.  kernel-headers* is debian's kernel headers
[11:04] <dholbach> mxpxpod: hey, how are the coaster packages? :-)
[11:04] <CarlK> thanks
[11:08] <trulux> Gui/libgui.a(ws.o)(.text+0x499): In function `wsXInit':
[11:08] <trulux> : undefined reference to `XF86VidModeGetModeLine'
[11:08] <trulux> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[11:08] <trulux> when compiling mplayer
[11:11] <dhonn> Hey guys is it possible to include the older nvidia drivers in the apt repositories?  Later versions after 1.0-6111 crashes when the LCD is initialized.   All drivers work fine with a CRT though.
[11:13] <skyrider> Hi guys. Few days ago some Russian programmer had found a critical security related bug in Mozilla Firefox. This bug could lead to exposure user data. Please see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=288688 (and its DUPs) for more info. Are you aware of that bug? When you plan to release new updated package fpr firefox? (fix is already in mozilla CVS).
[11:17] <mdz> skyrider: you can send reports of security vulnerabilities to security@ubuntu.com, or report them to bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[11:18] <skyrider> mdz: ok.
[11:18] <mdz> skyrider: the bug is already in bugzilla in fact
[11:18] <mdz> or will be shortly
[11:19] <skyrider> mdz: oh, sorry for false alert :(
[11:27] <mxpxpod> thom: ping
[11:29] <dhonn> there is a problem with /etc/rcS.d/S40networking, where it hangs if theres no network connection,  CTRL+c allows you to bypass the hang but "ifup lo" wont initialize and you will have to do it yourself to get some applications to work
[11:52] <dhonn> some of the applictions in Applications->System Tools should probably go under System->Admistration
[11:55] <zyga> the pope is dead :-(